# AU Help?  Part III



## ZehnWaters (Nov 29, 2020)

Building upon my previous two posts: It's said that the Nirnaeth Arnoediad would have been won if not for the treachery of Ulfang. HAD the armies of the Elves been victorious, what do you think would have happened? Obviously Morgoth would have escaped somehow. With all of his armies destroyed, what then? I'd imagine he'd go to the East where men with darkened hearts still lived. There were also dwarves out there.


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## Amarthon (Oct 3, 2021)

If the Noldor had triumphed, but were unable to seize Morgoth and the Silmarils, the war would have had a brief respite before moving on , possibly outside of Beleriand. But history would have changed dramatically.


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## Alcuin (Oct 3, 2021)

I concur with Amarthon. (Welcome to TTF, btw, Amarthon.) Morgoth would have simply shut the doors of Thangorodrim and rebuilt his strength to attack once more.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 3, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> I concur with Amarthon. (Welcome to TTF, btw, Amarthon.) Morgoth would have simply shut the doors of Thangorodrim and rebuilt his strength to attack once more.


Hm. Do you think Thangorodrim could have been infiltrated? Could the dwarves have built a battering ram?



Amarthon said:


> If the Noldor had triumphed, but were unable to seize Morgoth and the Silmarils, the war would have had a brief respite before moving on , possibly outside of Beleriand. But history would have changed dramatically.


Yes, I had imagined Morgoth fleeing out East to rebuild his strength. A dramatically changed history was the idea.


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## Alcuin (Oct 4, 2021)

ZehnWaters said:


> Do you think Thangorodrim could have been infiltrated? Could the dwarves have built a battering ram?


No. But Morgoth might have used a “battering ram” on any Dwarves impertinent enough to approach his gates: the original Grond. That is, if he had courage to show himself again, which I doubt: Fingolfin ended that.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 4, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> No. But Morgoth might have used a “battering ram” on any Dwarves impertinent enough to approach his gates: the original Grond. That is, if he had courage to show himself again, which I doubt: Fingolfin ended that.



Yeah, hence my idea that he'd retreat East.


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