# Ossë - Servant of Melkor?



## Ancalagon (Jun 5, 2007)

> Melkor hated the Sea, for he could not subdue it. It is said that in the making of Arda he endeavoured to draw Ossë to his allegiance, promising to him all the realm and power of Ulmo, if he would serve him. So it was that long ago there arose great tumults in the sea that wrought ruin to the lands. But Uinen, at the prayer of Aulë, restrained Ossë and brought him before Ulmo; and he was pardoned and returned to his allegiance, to which he has remained faithful. For the most part; for the delight in violence has never wholly departed from him, and at times he will rage in his wilfulness without any command from Ulmo his lord. Therefore those who dwell by the sea or go up in ships may love him, but they do not trust him.



Rather than produce ream upon ream of quotes, I throw this question to you, the venerable members: Did Ossë ever really repent of his apparent temporary allegiance to Melkor, or beneath it all did he remain somewhat subserviant, directly or indirectly challenging the work of Ulmo. I would contend that Ossë remained in the service of Melkor long after his pardon.


----------



## Ithrynluin (Jun 5, 2007)

I don't think Osse had ever really entered Melkor's service, let alone remained in it after being pardoned. I'm sure Ulmo would have caught on!

This was actually Morgoth's one attempt to draw a Maia of Ulmo to his side, and it was unsuccesful. Water has always been an element/substance most resilient to Melkor's tampering. I'm not sure Osse's bouts of violence were due to the influence of Morgoth either; it may be that Morgoth merely brought out this side in Osse that has long lay dormant, and though these storms could be violent, I don't think they can be called evil. This is just further proof against those who say everything in Tolkien's world is black and white, when there are actually endless nuances of grey. 

Just my




.


----------



## Ancalagon (Jun 5, 2007)

> "The Valar!" said Túrin. "They have forsaken you, and they hold Men in scorn. What use to look westward across the endless Sea? There is but one Vala with whom we have to do, and that is Morgoth; and if in the end we cannot overcome him, at the least we can hurt him and hinder him. For victory is victory, however small, nor is its worth only in what follows from it. But it is expedient also; for if you do nothing to halt him, all Beleriand will fall beneath his shadow before many years are passed, and then one by one he will smoke you out of your earths. And what then? A pitiable remnant will fly south and west, to cower on the shores of the Sea, caught between Morgoth and Ossë. Better then to win a time of glory, though it be shortlived; for the end will be no worse.


 *Unfinished Tales*

Thee is no doubt that Uinen is the saving grace for many on the Seas of Arda, yet Ossë is ever at odds, ever contending with the first and secondborn. Is this not the work of Melkor in the guise of Ossë? 

With regards Melkor securing the allegiance Ossë, who is to say he was unsucessful? Did not Ossë ever seek to contend with Ulmo long after Melkor had fled from Valinor? 



> And as Ulmo said these things the mutter of the storm rose to a great cry, and the wind mounted, and the sky grew black; and the mantle of the Lord of Waters streamed out like a flying cloud. "Go now," said Ulmo, "lest the Sea devour thee! For Ossë obeys the will of Mandos, and he is wroth, being a servant of the Doom."


 *Unfinished Tales*

I wonder then did Ulmo not totally comprehend Ossë when he cut short his vision to Tuor? Did Ossë serve the doom of another over Mandos that Ulmo did not comprehend? Why did it take Ulmo to save Voronwë from the wrath of Ossë? What was his purpose in attempting to destroy Voronwë, the messenger of Turgon?


----------



## YayGollum (Jun 5, 2007)

Ah, a creepy paranoiac sort of idea? Or would I appreciate all kinds of other quotes? I merely thought of the Osse character as a simple force of nature sort. It makes sense for the god in charge of storms to be more violent than most, yes? The fact that he's just a simple force of nature sort makes it seem likely to myself that he could be used by Mel, then chided by his boss and wouldn't wish to associate himself with Mel anymore. He prefers to be left alone and have fun with doing his own thing, since nobody really likes him. Siding with Mel wouldn't be terribly intelligent when your domain is directly in the middle of Ulmo's.


----------



## Annaheru (Jun 5, 2007)

I think Osse really did repent. However, Morgoth twists everything he touches, so it's possible that on occasion Osse did the will of Morgoth without knowing it or without intending to.




Although (I'm in an argumentative mood and have decided to argue with meself. . .) early in Sil there's the line that speaks of secret followers within the camp of the Valar. If I'm not mistaken, Tolkien never names names in conjunction with this quote, so maybe it refers to Osse. ?.

If Osse _was_ in Morgoth's employ it would certainly change my understand of several key passages.


----------



## Ithrynluin (Jun 6, 2007)

As for your first quote, Anc, I am rather reluctant to take the word of one who was under Morgoth's curse, wedding his own sister and slaying his best friend, as hard fact. In fact, since the Sea was feared by many peoples, and Morgoth's lies were running rampant, I would be loath to believe that statement coming from anyone short of Cirdan and the people of the Falas, and would ascribe it to being hearsay or lies (Osse doing Morgoth's work) mixed with truth (Osse raging at whiles, though still being one of the good Ainur).

Regarding your comment about Voronwe, do we know Osse was intentionally targeting Voronwe and his mariners, rather than them being caught in one of those storms by accident? And even if Osse had done that on purpose, so what? Wasn't there a ban set against anyone's return to Aman? And even though Ulmo was the sole Vala who aided the elves in Beleriand, he may not have been able to influence all his Maiar to do likewise.


----------



## Turgon (Jun 6, 2007)

I tend to agree with the majority here. I have never really seen Ossë as staying loyal to Melkor. Ulmo was by far the most perceptive of the Valar, and possibly the wisest. I can't see him being fooled so easily. And by waylaying Voronwë wasn't Ossë simply doing just as Ulmo says? The Ban of the Valar still stood, and it was only Eärendil who would break it.

Ossë's rages I've always seen as being the more violent physical aspect of the waters, as Ulmo with his music was the spiritual.

Your quote _'caught between the Morgoth and Ossë'_ could be taken many ways. 'Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea' springs to mind - hehe! 'Caught between Morgoth and the Doom of Mandos' too, if Ossë is indeed serving the prophecy as Ulmo says.


----------



## Gothmog (Jun 11, 2007)

> Rather than produce ream upon ream of quotes, I throw this question to you, the venerable members: Did Ossë ever really repent of his apparent temporary allegiance to Melkor, or beneath it all did he remain somewhat subserviant, directly or indirectly challenging the work of Ulmo. I would contend that Ossë remained in the service of Melkor long after his pardon.



I don't think that Ossë remained suberviant to Melkor, I believe that he did repent and did not serve Melkor after. However, the question must be asked as to why Melkor tried to draw Ossë to his alligence? Ossë it seems is very willful and has a distinct problem with authority. No doubt it was these qualities that Melkor thought would make him a good candidate for conversion.

Ossë no doubt did things that Melkor found good and could make use of, however, this is also true of Elves and Men who were enemies of Melkor and in no way allied to him.



> I wonder then did Ulmo not totally comprehend Ossë when he cut short his vision to Tuor? Did Ossë serve the doom of another over Mandos that Ulmo did not comprehend? Why did it take Ulmo to save Voronwë from the wrath of Ossë? What was his purpose in attempting to destroy Voronwë, the messenger of Turgon?


Why did it take Ulmo? This is answered by Ulmo himself.



> Unfinished Tales
> And Ulmo spoke to Tuor of Valinor and its darkening, and the Exile of the Noldor, and the Doom of Mandos, and the hiding of the Blessed Realm. "But behold!" said he, "in the armour of Fate (as the Children of Earth name it) there is ever a rift, and in the walls of Doom a breach, until the full-making, which ye call the End. So it shall be while I endure, a secret voice that gainsayeth, and a light where darkness was decreed. Therefore, though in the days of this darkness I seem to oppose the will of my brethren, the Lords of the West, that is my part among them, to which I was appointed ere the making of the World.



Ossë would have as his purpose serving the will of Mandos and protecting "The Ban of the Valar". Each of the Valar who worked to enforce this ban did so according to his/her power and method from causing mariners to sleep until the change of the world to Ossë using storms to prevent anyone from reaching Valinor. Ossë would tend to go somewhat over the top in his following of this purpose. I think that this was a case of "I've started so I'll finish".


----------

