# Lord of.... Moria?



## Kyranger (Aug 22, 2010)

So, the inscription on the doors of Khazad-dum say, " The doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak friend, and enter. I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs." Right? But, in the time that they made the doors was before the balrog showed up, and before Khazad-dum got its name, " The black pit " which in the elven tongue is " Moria ". So how could they of called it that? Do you think that maybe Gandalf just translated 'Khazad-dum' as 'Moria' or was that what the doors actually said?


----------



## Turgon (Aug 22, 2010)

If you look at the caption below Tolkien's sketch of the Gates of Moria in The Fellowship of the Ring, it actually says _*Moria*_, the caption is in Elvish too which is curious and suggests that Gandalf wasn't translating but actually reading verbatim. I can't read Elvish script mind you, so maybe it says something different on the inscription carved on the actual gate. Heh... that's quite interesting Kyranger, you have me curious now!


----------



## Kyranger (Aug 22, 2010)

Maybe the elves had called it Moria all along? Though I'm not sure why they would have, I couldn't find any other elvish name for it.


----------



## Kyranger (Aug 22, 2010)

Wait.... hold on! I found something, Hadhodrond, that was the elvish name for Khazad- dum.


----------



## Elthir (Aug 23, 2010)

The picture in the book need not be a representation of the actual door in all details, but still is effective with respect to giving a general visual representation of the door, internal language, and script.

_Durin_ and _Narvi_ appear in the written inscription in the book too, but cannot be on the actual door (being translations), thus _Moria_ could arguably be a 'stand in' for Hadhodrond, put there by the modern translator -- given that Moria is the name the reader knows.


----------



## Kyranger (Aug 23, 2010)

Here is another crackpot theory about it.


----------



## Starbrow (Aug 23, 2010)

Much better answer than others I've heard.


----------



## e.Blackstar (Aug 27, 2010)

Kyranger said:


> Maybe the elves had called it Moria all along? Though I'm not sure why they would have, I couldn't find any other elvish name for it.


 
It is conceivable for Elves to call a large mine "the black pit", given their lack of interest and even disgust in underground places. I mean, it applies.


----------



## childoferu (Dec 14, 2010)

Could it simply have been[uh-oh]....a mistake?


----------



## Elthir (Dec 14, 2010)

Well it could be... especially considering Tolkien's own recognition that _translated_ names should not really appear in writing... if the writing is meant to depict the actual tombstone (or door or whatever).

But a simple 'it's a mistake' I reserve for Gimli's comment about hewing orcs, for instance. _Gimli's memory_ need not be perfect.

;*)


----------

