# was Sauron blind or what



## christopher (Jun 28, 2003)

The Ringwraiths, being servants of Sauron, could "smell" the Ring when Frodo put it on near Bree. Why could Sauron, the master or Lord of the Ring, not smell Sam when he put it on? Sam was in Mordor or at the border at the very least. Could someone please enlighten me?


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 28, 2003)

I asked the same thing a while back...

Appearantly he was so Naivë to the fact that anyone would want to destroy the Ring that he didn't sense them or something like that...


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## Glomund (Jun 28, 2003)

The nazgul could smell the ring because, 1)they were specifically looking for it and Frodo and 2) they were a heck of a lot closer.
Sauron missed it because he was concentrating his powers(sight) over most of middle earth, not just the ring. 
In the books, there are times that show Sauron searching, the mirror and amon hen, so it seems he can sense it when it is worn, and the wearer is looking to mordor, or thinking of Sauron.
Later Saurons inability to "find" Frodo and the ring in Mordor is due in part to the shadows and fumes he caused to shroud Barad-Dur and the rest of Mordor, as well as the smoke of Mt. Doom, and the elven cloaks probably helped as well, like the phial did to the witch king near minas morgul. The reason Gandalf proposed to send the army to the Morrannon was to keep Sauron from turning his attention back to the search for the ring, to make him think that one of the great had it. This also kept his "eye" away from the interior of Mordor and kept him from any deeper inquiries into reports of spies.
Also, the Nazgul were slaves to the rings, the one that they had held, and the One, so they might have had a greater "connection" since Sauron was the master, or lord of the rings. Plus maybe the nazgul just had a ability Sauron did not, just because he is more powerful, doesn't mean he has all the powers they do. And Gollum is able to sense the ring, at least enough to fight the invisible Frodo, so maybe the ability to smell, or sense the ring, was a side effect of being enslaved or almost enslaved, it conferred on a mortal being, along with longer life.


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## YayGollum (Jun 28, 2003)

Well, I got the impression from the book that the Gollum saw the superly boring Frodo put his security blanket on and was achingly close and the superly boring Frodo didn't think to move in time. oh well. Nevermind. Yes, it looks like this Glomund person answered the question achingly well. *stalks off*


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## Eriol (Jun 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by christopher _
> *The Ringwraiths, being servants of Sauron, could "smell" the Ring when Frodo put it on near Bree. Why could Sauron, the master or Lord of the Ring, not smell Sam when he put it on? Sam was in Mordor or at the border at the very least. Could someone please enlighten me? *



That's from the movies, I think. In the books there is no mention of Ringwraiths "smelling" Frodo at the Prancing Pony -- the big worry is that the Southerner and Bill Ferny will tell the Ringwraiths about it (as they eventually did). No "smelling". The scene witnessed by Merry is to indicate this -- how the Black Riders were getting information from humans.

As for Sauron, I think he could "search" a limited area (remember the description at Amon Hen, "like a finger"), but he could not feel the Ring automatically if the wearer did not claim It and the Mastery. So he would have seen Sam _only_ if he was looking at that direction. That, after all, is the purpose of Gandalf's maneuvers. (This is seen in the description of Frodo & Sam's trip from Udûn to the spot where they leave the road to Barad-dûr and strike for Orodruin, too).


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## Anamatar IV (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: was Sauron blind or what*



> _Originally posted by Eriol _
> *That's from the movies, I think. In the books there is no mention of Ringwraiths "smelling" Frodo at the Prancing Pony -- the big worry is that the Southerner and Bill Ferny will tell the Ringwraiths about it (as they eventually did). No "smelling". The scene witnessed by Merry is to indicate this -- how the Black Riders were getting information from humans.
> *



Remember the first Black Rider encounter when Frodo remarked that the Rider seemed to be sniffing?


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## Eriol (Jun 28, 2003)

Sure, but not smelling "the Ring".

I don't think the question is addressed to plain smelling... or is Sam's smell so awful that Sauron should have smelled him in Cirith Ungol?


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## Glomund (Jun 28, 2003)

He might have been able to smell him in the marshes 
Perhaps it would be better to describe the nazgul as sensing or feeling the rings presence instead of smelling it. As for you YayGollum, are you saying you aren't talented enough to find Frodo unless you see him disappear?


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## Eriol (Jun 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Glomund _
> *He might have been able to smell him in the marshes
> Perhaps it would be better to describe the nazgul as sensing or feeling the rings presence instead of smelling it. As for you YayGollum, are you saying you aren't talented enough to find Frodo unless you see him disappear?
> *



Yes, "feeling" is better. And the only instance of a Ringwraith "feeling" the Ring is in Morgul Vale, when the Witch-King stops, feeling "an alien power in his vale". Now, we must remember that:

1) He is THE WITCH-KING;
2) It is HIS VALE;
3) And even so, he did not feel The Ring... only "something odd". Almost "a hunch", you might say -- if he were _sure_ that there was something there he would have looked deeper into it, I think.

Other than that single instance, the Ringwraiths never feel the Ring as Sauron can obviously do if he wants to (as witnessed in Amon Hen). 

Also -- if the Ringwraiths could "feel" the Ring they would not have bothered with Crickhollow.

No, everything points towards the conclusion that the Nazgûl _cannot_ feel the Ring, unless of course the wearer of the Ring tries to command them. Now, they can _see_ the wearer (who is in the unseen world, after all, just as they are) if the wearer is within their eyesight, but they can't "feel" him at a distance, as Sauron can.

In my opinion, of course .


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## YayGollum (Jun 28, 2003)

What was that about smelling things in some marshes? Wouldn't the smell from the marshes hide more specific thingses? oh well. What was that about me? Sure, I'd say that I'm not talented enough to find invisible people. sorry if I made you think something different. oh well. Or are you comparing me to the coolest character Tolkien ever thought up? Stop that! Anyways, sure, I would think that Gollum would be able to find an invisible but still superly boring Frodo. Good hearing and smelling abilities.


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## FrankSinatra (Jul 1, 2003)

I never quite understood the sniffing.

I always thought it was fitting in with the 'child' narrative, that seemed to continue from the Hobbit into the first couple of chapters of the Lord Of The Rings.


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## YayGollum (Jul 1, 2003)

What's confusing about the sniffing thing? And how might it seem like something made for a kid's book? oh well. They were sniffing to find hobbitses.


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## Grond (Jul 4, 2003)

Here's another thread where Sauron's lunacy is discussed in depth.


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