# Comparison of Greek Mythology



## Anamatar IV (Mar 4, 2003)

The past few weeks I have been looking over the Greek Gods and Goddesses. It has stricken me that Tolkien based many of his Maiar and Valar on them. I have come to these conclusions:

Manwe is *NOT* Zeus. Zeus was hated by the other Gods. Zeus overthrew his father (which would be Iluvatar to Manwe). But I think some ideas of Zeus were put into Manwe. Zeus was the thunderer, the one who poured the rains. From the Silmarillion:



> For while thou wert in the heavens and with Ulmo built the clouds and poured out the rains



So Manwe had at least some part in the rains.

Apollo is Anar, the Maia, the vessel of the sun. One of the tasks of Apollo was the guide the sun across the sky in his chariot.

The sister of Apollo, Artemis, can be one of two: She can be Isil for Artemis is said to have been associated with the moon. Or she can be Orome since she is named the huntress.

Poseidon and Ulmo is the easiest comparison, and not just because both were lords of the waters. They both had second greatest power among their kin (Poseidon-Zeus, Ulmo-Manwe).

Hades I would say Mandos but this is a very hard comparison. They both kept and watched the dead, yes, but Hades was said to be greedy for the wealth in the earth. Maybe some of Aule came from Hades, too. Hades is also said to be great and terrible and filled with wrath. I think some of Melkor came from this guy, too.

We come now to Demeter. I can only compare Demeter to Yavanna as they both make things grow. But what they make grow is very different. Yavanna made the trees and flowers and grasses grow whereas Demeter made the harvests grow.

Hepheastus would be Aule. They were both the armourers of their kin.

At first I strongly believed Tulkas came from Ares but after reading a bit more I found that that is untrue indeed, though they are both the gods of war. Ares was a coward. Maybe the idea of a god of war came from Ares but Tulkas is not Ares. Maybe some of Ares and some of Hermes went into Tulkas since Hermes was the fastest God and Ares the god of war.

This is what I have so far. I will most likely add more. Tell me what you think or if you think you have another comparison.


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## Anamatar IV (Mar 4, 2003)

This one is kind of out there but I think Rumil came from Minos. Minos created the legal system as well as education. Rumil first created writing.

I would say that the Void is Tartarus. Tartarus was used as the ultimate of prisons, unpleasant and inaccesible. The Void was used to hold Melkor.


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## Niniel (Mar 4, 2003)

I don't think the Valar were all based on the Greek gods. In many religions there is a god of the sun, of the moon, of fertility, of the sea etc., not only in Greek mythology. It is very common for the mightiest god of a mythology to be the god of the sky/heavens, so Manwe is not based on Zeus alone. 
Apollo did not guide the vessel of the sun himself, Helios did that for him. So there is really no 'Valar of the sun', so no comparison to Apollo. With the other Greek gods I see only minor coincidences to the Valar. I think, since many of Tolkien's stories was base on Scandanivian myths, that maybe the Valar can be compared more easily to Norse or Finnish gods, but I don't know enough about them to be sure.


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## Anamatar IV (Mar 5, 2003)

Obviously the Valar didn't come solely from Greek mythology but you can definitly see a strong connection between the two. And there are some of them of which you are almost CERTAIN Tolkien took the idea of. Like Ulmo (Poseidon). Hepaestus is almost a replica of Aule (or vice versa). Some Valar, like Irmo and Manwe, there were no comparisons. Manwe is a supreme being, great, powerful, benevolent. No Greek god or goddess is like that. But many of the Valar seem to be the Greek gods.


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## FoolOfATook (Mar 5, 2003)

Tolkien never particularily cared for Classical mythology- he prefered Norse legends. Therefore, I don't think one should put too much weight on the search for connections between his mythology, and the mythology of the Greeks or Romans. Almost all of the connections can be explained if one reads Joseph Cambell, or _The Golden Bough_.


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## Mirabella (Mar 5, 2003)

I will agree that there are many similarities between the Valar and the Greek pantheon, but I don't think Tolkien based the Valar on them. If you compare the mythologies of different cultures, you will find many such similarities. The most common example I can think of is the story of the Flood...many different versions of this exist.


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## Lantarion (Mar 6, 2003)

Niniel, it is possible that some of the Valar or Valier were similar to Finnish mythological gods, but the system of 'godly hierarchy' is completely different. Ilúvatar is the Creator, who made all and governs all; in the old Finnish myths there was the main god, called _Ukko_, who as I understand did not make anything but that the world was created otherwise.. I really should brush up on my Finnish mythology though; I can't remember what the creation myth according to the _Kalevala_ is! 
But Ulmo is very alike to _Ahti_, the god of the Seas.. He was also mild-tempered and enjoyed privacy. And Oromë is very much like _Tapio_, the god of forests and hunting.. 
Other characters (such as Gandalf = _Väinämöinen_) are very similar to the characters of the _Kalevala_.. But we're discussing gods here, so I'll leave it be. 
And the Silmarilli are a lot like the _Sampo_, which was a magical device that would create gold, corn and wheat (I think..); and the feuds in the _Kalevala_ are almost all due to it.


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## Goldberry (Mar 6, 2003)

Can anyone think of any mythology that has a hierarchy of gods as Tolkien has created? I have not read the Kalevala yet.


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## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

It bears some resemblance to Greek Mythology but also to pretty much all mythology out there so I don't think it was intended at all.


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## FoolOfATook (Mar 8, 2003)

Christian mythology is what I would compare the heirarchy of the Ainur to. One God, and then Archangels/Valar and Seraphim/Maiar. Of course, this particular comparison breaks down when you try to factor in Sauron, and the Ainur's heirarchy is nowhere near as complex as the average Renaissance scheme depicting the Angelic orders. 

And for the record, when I say Christian mythology, I'm referring more to non-Biblical Christian traditions, which is where one finds the most detailed schemes of divine orders. Just so as to make sure no one gets too offended.


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## Niniel (Mar 9, 2003)

Well, of course Melkor and Sauron can be compared to Lucifer, the fallen angel. I think Tolkien's mythology was influenced by Greek, Norse, Finnish and biblical stories alike, so that it bears resemblance to all in certain respects.


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