# I Found the Entwives!



## Ardamir the Blessed (Jan 9, 2006)

Well, not I, but a member by the name of *Teleporno* (Telerin for _Celeborn_) of the Tolkien board *Minas Tirith* claims in the thread "I Found the Entwives!" to have found them. He has not revealed exactly where in LOTR he found them, but he has given several hints. But only one other member, *Ararana*, has managed to find what *Teleporno* is hinting at, or so she says. There is a common belief among the other members that this discovery is a hoax.

As for myself, I am the member *Herendil* who has posted in the thread. I am now wondering if the members of *The Tolkien Forum* can have better success in this search than what the members of Minas Tirith have had so far. You could read the whole MT thread to get the full idea of Teleporno's and Ararana's hints and the progress of the search, but for your convenience, I will list their hints below in chronological order. The member *Halion* found a few hints by Teleporno on the board *The Land of Rohan* (his replies to the thread “Did Treebeard ever find the Entwives?” here), I will list these as well.


*Teleporno* 



> I found the Entwives!
> 
> At least I think so. In my nineteenth rereading of the The Two Towers, I found 'em, right there. Tolkien answered his own riddle.
> 
> ...





> Hey, okay, I'm short on time -- a hasty mortal. But they're in the second half of *The Two Towers*.
> 
> I'm considering not revealing it since I can hardly believe that nobody's noticed them in the fifty years of publication of these books! Of ocurse my "evidence" is subjective. Tolkien does not say "here are the Entwives." But he does, I think, make a very deliberate joke.
> 
> ...





> I'm in the process of corresponding with The Tolkien Society about my discovery. I'll list the chapter when they reply to me.
> 
> I decided it is such a pleasant little mystery that to detail it all would be to spoil it for you, sort of like answering a riddle you should figure out yourself.
> 
> ...





> I'm now doubly worried about the Nazgûl finding the remaining Entwives and scorching them.
> 
> Congratulations, you've made a compelling argument to *NOT* post my discovery here.
> 
> ...





> Wow, I come back after a year and my little thread about the Entwives is still kicking.
> 
> Tolkien Society people tell me to publish a paper on the idea. As if.
> 
> ...


 



*Ararana*




> Holy ****! ok I dont really think any of you are going to believe me, becuase well, how many of you really believed Teleporno? I didnt, but the thought of finding the Entwives in the back of my head drove me crazy and before I knew it I was reading TTT, over and over again. And YES its right there! Tolkien has a good sense of humor! its so a deliberate joke. Its like tolkien is saying "Duh, there right here, were the blazes did you think they'd be!".
> 
> And hats off to Teleporno for not revealing their location. It is so rewarding to find them on your own like this, for any hardcore tolkien fan. Come on guys your so close to finding them! Teleporno gave you enough clues. just piece it together like a puzzle.
> 
> ...





> Yeah, I didnt think any of you would believe me. And now my name on this board probably went to hell. Sorry, I found it, you dont believe me. Thats your problem, not mine.






*Teleporno* (on The Land of Rohan)




> The Entwives are alive and living in _The Lord of the Rings_ but you must look closely to find and decipher the riddle. Once you find them, don't tell anyone!





> It's an elaborate inside joke as much as a riddle, just as the Ents can be taken as a broad spoof of haughty English academics (specifically Treebeard is JRRT's rendering of C.S. Lewis) the Entwives are the middle-class British women who don't tolerate the foolish behavior of men -- like the suffragists. I know it's an extremely obscure thing to find and you have to do a lot of homework to understand my explanation of the riddle. Reading such as Humphrey Carpenter's authorized biography (yeah, I know it's very flawed and omits a lot) and the Letters of JRRT. The letters where he answers readers questions about the Entwives are deliberately cagey for exactly this reason -- he wants YOU to find them.
> 
> Remember, he's a subtle writer and every word counts.





> It's all in _The Two Towers_. Keep an eye on the clustering of certain types of words.
> 
> That's all I'm writing.
> 
> Happy 2004 to all Tolkien fans worldwide!


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## Maeglin (Jan 9, 2006)

Sounds interesting....I don't have my LOTR books with me here at school though, so I'm not going to search for any answer to the so-called riddle. Of course, whatever this Teleporno thinks he may have found may be nothing new at all to many others, and in fact may have been discussed many times on this board and others, but since he is so adamant not to reveal his "discovery," we can't know for sure. This all may very well be a wild goose hunt after nothing we haven't observed before, so even when I get my books back again I don't think I'd spend more than a few hours reading through certain sections again. If anyone else on the board decides to pursue this though, please post updates to your findings.


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## e.Blackstar (Jan 9, 2006)

As Maeglin said, since Telethingy won't reveal his answers we can't know where to look. If it's true, it would indeed be and interesting find.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Jan 9, 2006)

I recommend reading closely *Book IV*, the *second* book of TT, since that book was specified by Teleporno. Or rather, 'the second *half* of _The Two Towers_' - there is a slight risk that Teleporno did not mean Book IV by 'the second half of The Two Towers', but Book IV plus the last chapters of Book III.

And keep an eye on *'the clustering of certain types of words'*!


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## Snaga (Jan 9, 2006)

This sounds like a hoax but if I ever notice something, I will happily post it. These sorts of inside jokes are annoying. I can't be bothered to scrutinise the text in this way, and the 'entwives = suffragettes' is an allegorical allusion that Tolkien disavowed repeatedly. Therefore this doesn't ring true at all to me.


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## Voronwë (Jan 9, 2006)

Probably fake (you'd think someone somehow would notice something like this in 50 years), but I do not have my LOTR copy (my sister is borrowing it) so I cannot look. I doubt I'd find anything either.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Jan 9, 2006)

*Snaga*:


> ... the 'entwives = suffragettes' is an allegorical allusion that Tolkien disavowed repeatedly.


 Do you have any proof of this?


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## Maeglin (Jan 9, 2006)

Proof can be found everywhere, starting with the introduction to LOTR, in which Tolkien states that the book has no allegorical purposes. True, he was referring to any type of religious allegory, but if he did not intentionally put any religious allegory into the story, then it is highly doubtful that he did anything concerning the suffrage movement.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Jan 9, 2006)

There is one passage in _Biography_ that concerns this type of problem in Tolkien's relationship with Edith:


> Even then, family life never entirely regained the equilibrium it had achieved in Leeds. *Edith began to feel that she was being ignored by Ronald.* In terms of actual hours he was certainly in the house a great deal: much of his teaching was done there, and he was not often out for more than one or two evenings a week. But it was really a matter of his affections. He was very loving and considerate to her, greatly concerned about her health (as she was about his) and solicitous about domestic matters. But she could see that one side of him only came alive when he was in the company of men of his own kind. More specifically she noticed and resented his devotion to Jack Lewis.
> 
> On the occasions when Lewis came to Northmoor Road, the children [Tolkien’s] liked him because he did not talk condescendingly to them; and he gave them books by E. Nesbit, which they enjoyed. But with Edith he was shy and ungainly. Consequently she could not understand the delight that Ronald took in his company, and she became a little jealous. There were other difficulties. She had only known a home life of the most limited sort in her own childhood, and she therefore had no example on which to base the running of her household. Not surprisingly she cloaked this uncertainty in authoritarian-ism, demanding that meals be precisely on time, that the children eat up every scrap, and that servants should perform their work impeccably. Underneath all this she was often very lonely, frequently being without company other than the servants and the children during that part of the day when Ronald was out or in his study. During these years Oxford society was gradually becoming less rigid; but she did not trust it, and she made few friends among other dons’ families, with the exception of Charles Wrenn’s wife, Agnes. She also suffered from severe headaches which could prostrate her for a day or more.
> 
> It quickly became clear to Ronald that Edith was unhappy with Oxford, and especially that *she was resentful of his men friends*. Indeed he perceived that his need of male friendship was not entirely compatible with married life. But he believed that this was one of the sad facts of a fallen world; and on the whole he thought that a man had a right to male pleasures, and should if necessary insist on them. To a son contemplating marriage he wrote: ‘There are many things that a man feels are legitimate even though they cause a fuss. Let him not lie about them to his wife or lover! Cut them out―or if worth a fight: just insist. Such matters may arise frequently―the glass of beer, the pipe, the non writing of letters, the other friend, etc., etc. If the other side’s claims really are unreasonable (as they are at times between the dearest lovers and most loving married folk) they are much better met by above board refusal and “fuss” than subterfuge.’


 Though it does not seem that she 'left' him, like the Entwives left the Ents.


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## baragund (Jan 9, 2006)

Hmmm.... It's been a few years since I read LOTR. It might be fun to peruse Book IV to see if there is anything to Teleporno's claim.

But I have one question (to start!): Why would there be a particular allegory to suffragettes rather than middle-class British women in general. For that matter, if one were to update the passage that Ardamir provided, one could describe the plight of not a few modern stay-at-home Moms and othe Desperate Housewives.

Also, it _would_ be helpful if Teleporno went ahead and provided the sections he is thinking about. That way, we all wouldn't have to start searching for the needle in the haystack.


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## Snaga (Jan 9, 2006)

Tolkien also stated that other comparisons - for example with the events of WWII - were not deliberate, but could be made because LotR was 'applicable' to events in the real world and not direct allegory. He was very forthright in stating he disagreed with allegory - meaning the direct attempt to refer to the real world events in fairy tales etc. Therefore, it would be surprising and uncharacteristic for him to disguise meanings in the text in some kind of code. This is Tolkien we are talking about, not Umberto Eco.

All of which is not to say anything about the state of Tolkien's marriage. Your quote was interesting enough, but saying that Tolkien's marriage had problems doesn't seem to prove anything. I believe you could make some case about how Tolkien's relationship with women is reflected in the text of LotR (many have done so), but it seems most unlikely that this would be done in any kind of hidden inside joke.


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## Snaga (Jan 9, 2006)

Ardamir the Blessed said:


> *Snaga*: Do you have any proof of this?


Sorry... excuse the double post but I have suddenly realised that I expressed myself ambiguously in my first post, and I now see where you were going with your question.

To clarify: the 'entwives = suffragettes' is an allegorical allusion _of the kind_ that Tolkien disavowed repeatedly.

He did not directly refute that EXACT comparison, so far as I know, and I didn't mean to imply that he had. He was against allegory in general.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Jan 9, 2006)

According to Teleporno, the other members of the Inklings had similar problems in their relationships, and the Ents are a parody of the Inklings. It does seem that Tolkien put some traits of the Inklings into them (especially Treebeard). Perhaps the Entmoot was a parody of their meetings at _The Eagle and Child_.

_Biography_:


> When eventually he [Tolkien] came to write this chapter [LR, ‘Treebeard’] (so he told Nevill Coghill [a member of the Inklings]) *he modelled Treebeard’s way of speaking, ‘Hrum, Hroom’, on the booming voice of C. S. Lewis*.




_Treason of Isengard_, ‘Treebeard’:


> There are some small particular points worthy of mention in this first part of the chapter. In the fair copy corresponding to TT pp. 66 – 7 … *his [Treebeard’s] ejaculation 'Root and twig! ' replaced 'Crack my timbers!'*



A note on this:


> A pencilled note on the fair copy says that *'Crack my timbers' had been 'queried by Charles Williams'*. The same change was made at a later point in the chapter (TT p. 75).



Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Charles Williams were all members of the Inklings. In my opinion it is not that farfetched then to suspect that the Entwives were a 'parody' of their wives.


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## Confusticated (Jan 9, 2006)

I've half-seriously wondered if that poor stump that the elven rope came untied from might be an old messed up Entwife. Aside form that I can't think of anything in TT.


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## Aglarband (Jan 9, 2006)

I like to think they found the Old Forest in the Shire... Sam says stuff like that, and Treebeard asks Merry and Pippin. If i was a tree, id live there.


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## Arvedui (Jan 10, 2006)

And the Old Man Willow does indeed show a feminine temper


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## Noldor_returned (Jan 10, 2006)

This is very interesting...maybe, when I find where they are, we can actually find them in my other thread Forest of the Last Elves. In this, we are actually looking for them. It can be found in the forum From Erebor to Eldamar.


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## Gandalf White (Jan 10, 2006)

Oooh, this kind of thing drives me up a wall. Literally. 

I'm wondering if someone could be so kind as to post Tolkien's letter(s) regarding the Entwives, as I don't have them on hand.


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## Walter (Jan 10, 2006)

Less spectacular than finding the Entwives, but - IMO - still interesting:


"Treebeard's Roots in Medieval European Tradition" by Edward Pettit; Mallorn 42, 2004, pp. 11-18
_Myth and Middle-Earth_ by Leslie Ellen Jones
_The White Goddess_ by Robert Graves


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## Thorondor_ (Jan 10, 2006)

@ Gandalf White
I know of only two letters dealing with the subject, perhaps others could give a more complete view:


Letter#144 to Naomi Mitchison said:


> I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin. They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult - unless experience of industrialized and militarized agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know.





Letter #338 to Douglas Carter said:


> As for the Entwives: I do not know. I have written nothing beyond the first few years of the Fourth Age. ... But I think in vol. II it is plain that there would be for Ents no re-union in 'history' - but Ents and their wives being rational creatures would find some 'earthly paradise' until the end of this world: beyond which the wisdom neither of Elves nor Ents could see. Though maybe they shared the hope of Aragorn that they were 'not bound for ever to the circles of the world and beyond them is more than memory.'


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## elrilgalia (Jan 10, 2006)

so did anyone ever find out what paragraph/sentence this person referred to? or was he just joining two words together in order to form the phrase Ent-wives ???

I cant honestly beleive Tolkien would have bothered to put a little riddle like that in the books, otherwise he would have at least put on in each book, if he enjoyed that sort of thing ???


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## Lothlorien (Jan 16, 2006)

Well this has me very curious now. Was going to reread the Silmarillion, but maybe I will reread parts of TTT first!


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## Aulë (Jan 17, 2006)

Oh - I get it!
I understand the riddle completely.

I don't know how I didn't see it before, and how noone else has either! Especially scholars like Nom, Itchy and Walter! Shame on you all!

I'm going to contact the Tolkien Estate to claim my prize! But I won't tell you what the answer was...because you are not worthy.


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## Walter (Jan 17, 2006)

Aulë said:


> Oh - I get it!
> I understand the riddle completely.
> 
> I don't know how I didn't see it before, and how noone else has either! Especially scholars like Nom, Itchy and Walter! Shame on you all!
> ...



Yeah, shame on me...  

But, thanks anyway, for considering me a scholar...


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## Snaga (Jan 17, 2006)

Aulë said:


> Oh - I get it!
> I understand the riddle completely.
> 
> I don't know how I didn't see it before, and how noone else has either! Especially scholars like Nom, Itchy and Walter! Shame on you all!
> ...


Everyone knows they could get you tell, if you really knew! They would just challenge you to a debate on 'Is there a secret clue on where the Entwives are?', and take the No side. Then you would have to reveal all, or lose. Your resolve would crumble immediately, methinks!


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## Aulë (Jan 17, 2006)

Snaga said:


> Everyone knows they could get you tell, if you really knew! They would just challenge you to a debate on 'Is there a secret clue on where the Entwives are?', and take the No side. Then you would have to reveal all, or lose. Your resolve would crumble immediately, methinks!


 
Why stop there?
We could have a whole bunch of debates on the matter in some sort of... uh... tournament!! Yeah. That would work out quite nicely. We could spilt up into teams called "guilds" and fight continuously about the rules until the cows come home!  In the end we would discover that none of us actually know the answer to the riddle, but someone would still claim to have hidden it all along in an attempt to appear superior to his or her peers!




Methinks, Teleporno = Fraud


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## baragund (Jan 18, 2006)

I think Aule's right, but the good thing that came out of this is the opportunity to reread parts of TTT for the first time (in my case) in several years. Talk about going from a diet of gruel to filet mignon! Until now, I have been lazy and popping in the TTT DVD whenever I wanted to revisit that part of the story. I'd forgotten so much of the delightful dialogues, descriptions and subtle nuances that are in the book, it was really a breath of fresh air to me.

I couldn't figure out what Teleporno was talking about, but so what!! My thanks to him for getting me to reread the book! My guess, after rereading the "Treebeard" chapter, is they migrated to Mirkwood and got killed off or corrupted by the Necromancer

Incidentally, I really like Nom's theory about the stump that Sam tied his rope to being an old Entwife. The image of an old twiggy hand untying his knot is so much more satisfying than just saying it was "magic".


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## Wonko The Sane (Jan 19, 2006)

If Teleporno were really holding the key to some massive inside joke, some clever clue to the whereabouts of the Entwives he'd share it with the rest of the Tolkien-world.

His name suggests a few options: 

1) He's a Tolkien-lover who has studied his languages and read his history and letters and taken on Celeborn's almost-name because of his love of Tolkien and a desire to show his knowledge of obscure Tolkien Lore, in which case he would most likely want to share this new Entwife revelation rather than play mind games.

2) He has either read or learned from someone that Tolkien considered and later rejected calling Celeborn's character by the name 'Teleporno' and instead chose its translation 'Celeborn' and thought that Teleporno was a funny sounding name in today's world and decided it would be the perfect name to use in order to mess with people's heads.

I believe it to be a fraud. Did he choose the name Teleporno as a joke? Possibly. It is a bit of Tolkien-lore I have found even the most die-hard LotR/Tolkien fans to laugh at. Perhaps he meant it to be a clue to his true purpose?

I don't know. But I'd take him with a grain of salt. If I thought I'd found some hidden message or clue to some long unanswered question in LotR I'd immediately put it to those around me to see if they felt my hypothesis was reasonable. 

This guy just doesn't ring true to me.


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## Noldor_returned (Jan 19, 2006)

Possible. Yet I think Tolkien did not even know himself where the Entwives were. Earlier I may have said otherwise, but for having read certain sections again, I doubt there is a definite answer. Old Forest? Perhaps. Into Mordor? Maybe. But what then? I think Treebeard says somewhere that Trolls were made in mimicry of Ents, just like orcs and elves. The first orcs were made by changing elves. Is it possible this is what happened? Sauron turned the Entwives into the Trolls?
My other theory is that the Entwives were where they started from: Fangorn. Treebeard couldn't remember what the Entwives were like, so maybe they had become as treeish as Ents can. Treebeard did say the Ents were becoming more like that, so maybe that's what happened. What do you guys think?


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## Wonko The Sane (Jan 20, 2006)

Noldor_returned said:


> Possible. Yet I think Tolkien did not even know himself where the Entwives were. Earlier I may have said otherwise, but for having read certain sections again, I doubt there is a definite answer. Old Forest? Perhaps. Into Mordor? Maybe. But what then? I think Treebeard says somewhere that Trolls were made in mimicry of Ents, just like orcs and elves. The first orcs were made by changing elves. Is it possible this is what happened? Sauron turned the Entwives into the Trolls?
> My other theory is that the Entwives were where they started from: Fangorn. Treebeard couldn't remember what the Entwives were like, so maybe they had become as treeish as Ents can. Treebeard did say the Ents were becoming more like that, so maybe that's what happened. What do you guys think?



Tolkien does say in his letters that he doesn't know what became of the Entwives. Your theories are as good as his. Maybe they went to Mordor, maybe they were burned when the enemy was scouring the forests, maybe the went off to dwell in more well-tended areas of the world.
But he does say he didn't have any specific idea for the end of the entwives.

Furthermore where does it say that Tolkien modeled the Ents after his Inkling friends?

I read here in a footnote to letter 163 to W.H. Auden:


> Take the Ents, for instance. I di not consciously invent them at all. The chapter called 'Treebeard', from Treebeard's first remark on p. 66, was written off more or less as it stands, with an effect on my self (except for labour pains) almost like reading some one else's work. And I like Ents now because they do not seem to have anything to do with me. I daresay something had been goingon on in the 'unconscious' for some time, and that accounts for my feeling throughout, especially when stuck, that I was not inventing but reporting (imperfectly) and had at times to wait till 'what really happened' came through. But looking back analytically I should say that Ents are composed of philology, literature, and life. They owe their name to the _eald enta geweorc_ of Anglo-Saxon, and their connexion with stone. Their poart in the story is due, I think, to my bitter disappointment and disgust from schooldays with the shabby use made by Shakespeare of the coming of 'Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill': I longed to devise a setting in which the trees might really march to war. And into this has crept a mere piece of experience, the difference of the 'male' and 'female' attitude to wild things, the difference between unpossessive love and gardening.



His experience in the differences between male and female creating the Ents and Entwives does not mean he is putting in secret joke about the wives of his friends. It means he modeled the general idea of male and female pursuits on his experience of life, not necessarily on actual people.


And um...I can't believe I just posted that whole quote...what a waste of time.

This guy, I seriously believe, is just full of it. I shouldn't take it seriously. Bah.

Ignore.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Jan 25, 2006)

A couple of weeks ago I sent an e-mail to *Teleporno* regarding his discovery, but have not received any reply.


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## Noldor_returned (Jan 25, 2006)

I wonder...why? Perhaps Wonko was correct in his theory.


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## Wonko The Sane (Jan 25, 2006)

Noldor_returned said:


> I wonder...why? Perhaps Wonko was correct in his theory.



Wonko is a chick, man.


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## Maeglin (Jan 25, 2006)

Settle down Wonks.....s/he hasn't been around long enough to know that about you, especially considering you just made a rather sudden return after a somewhat long period of inactivity.....not to mention that Wonko kinda seems like it might be a name a guy would use (don't ask me why, but it just seems like it to me at least)


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## Wonko The Sane (Jan 25, 2006)

Maeglin said:


> Settle down Wonks.....s/he hasn't been around long enough to know that about you, especially considering you just made a rather sudden return after a somewhat long period of inactivity.....not to mention that Wonko kinda seems like it might be a name a guy would use (don't ask me why, but it just seems like it to me at least)



The character from Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy called Wonko The Sane IS a guy.
And there's a member here just called wonko (my brother) that is also a guy. He can't remember his password and doesn't post here ever.

He's too cool for school.


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## Thorondor_ (Jan 26, 2006)

There is an interesting passage in the Shadow of the past:


> - My cousin Hal for one. He works for Mr. Boffin at Overhill and goes up to the Northfarthing for the hunting. He _saw_ one.
> - Says he did, perhaps. Your Hals always saying hes seen things; and maybe he sees things that aint there.
> - But this one was as big as an elm tree, and walking – walking seven yards to a stride, if it was an inch.


Walking trees, eh?


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 26, 2006)

There is actually a book written by an English professor about a time in the 4th Age when descendants of Sam Gamgee and a few others actually discover Treebeard, and they go off on a strange (and unfortunately poorly written) adventure, where they discover some of the Entwives. If only the book had been better written (someone actually got _raped_ — more than a bit crude and vulgar for this genre...), it could have been great fun.

On another subject: I am working away editing all the hundreds and hundreds of pictures I took while we were away in Hawaii, and at the same time learning the ins and outs of Mac Tiger. The browser and the mail program have a serious learning curve, at least for me. In some respects not as easy to configure as Netscape. Hang in there, people... 

Barley


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## Noldor_returned (Jan 26, 2006)

Maeglin said:


> Settle down Wonks.....s/he hasn't been around long enough to know that about you, especially considering you just made a rather sudden return after a somewhat long period of inactivity.....not to mention that Wonko kinda seems like it might be a name a guy would use (don't ask me why, but it just seems like it to me at least)


 
I am a guy...and sorry Wonko...I have read Hitchhikers, and instantly assumed you were male.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jan 27, 2006)

> There is actually a book written by an English professor about a time in the 4th Age when descendants of Sam Gamgee and a few others actually discover Treebeard, and they go off on a strange (and unfortunately poorly written) adventure, where they discover some of the Entwives. If only the book had been better written (someone actually got _raped_ — more than a bit crude and vulgar for this genre...), it could have been great fun.



Do you have the author/title of this book? even if it is poorly written, it could be interesting...

Also, concerning the ages of ME, I read somewhere online about if the world really was the world of Middle Earth, the author of it described the different time periods of each age, like the first age was 10,000 BC, the second was from like 5000 BC third was 3000 BC or somethin like that. Then he said the fourth would be from around where it began in the book until the assention of Christ. Then the fifth would be up until the fall of the Roman Empire or osmethin the 6th would be up until the end of WWII and we're currently in the 7th. I could be wrong about the events, and this doesnt have to do with the entwives, but i found it interesting, if anyone knows where the link was for it, id appreciate it.


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## Wonko The Sane (Jan 27, 2006)

What Hal saw could have been just an Ent, though. I don't think it says anywhere that Ents are confined only to Fangorn.

I always thought that Entwives would resemble fruit trees and maples rather than elms or oaks or more towering 'masculine' trees. Especially since the Entwives were more into cultivated growth, and 'sheep get like shepherd and shepherd gets like sheep, but it is quicker and closer with trees.' If they were tending more cultivated and orderly orchards or woods it would seem to me that they'd probably be more like the trees they were tending.

How out of place would a giant walking elm be in an orderly apple orchard.


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## Hankel (Apr 22, 2011)

Guys. And girls. 

The Entwives are the "treeish" trees.


End riddle.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Apr 22, 2011)

5 years plus a few months later ;*) ....

I don't think the tresish ones were the Entwives or we'd probably have known that. The Entwives went to the Brown Lands and made gardens, between Emyn Muil and Mirkwood. The forces of Sauron drove them out. I personally feel that the forces of Sauron probably burnt them all or destroyed them as well. I don't think Sauron or his followers were really lovers of trees and nature much and just letting them go wouldn't satisfy him. So in my own opinion, they're extinct.


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## Zenith (May 17, 2011)

If you look hard enough for something eventually you will think you have found it even if it isn't there.


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## Imagineer (Oct 23, 2011)

They could have wound up as kindling. Or the planks of an elvish ship, but since Radagast doesn't know or is unwilling to say; and the eagles, and Tommy isn't telling Gandalf..I think

They never left, but whenever they see an ent coming, they stand really still.


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## Bard the Bowman (Oct 24, 2011)

Look, Hal Sam's cousin claims he saw a "walking" tree. Treebeard said the Entwives would like the land of the Shire. Therefore it is entirely possible that some of the Entwives are up there, or it could just be an Ent. However, I think that if the Entwives were destroyed there wouldn't be any evidence, because they would just be burned. 

And, there is nothing in the Lord of the Rings that suggests the location of the Entwives, whether literally or figuratively. 

Nothing.


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