# The Silmarillion on the Silver Screen?



## Bullroarer (Jan 6, 2004)

IMHO it would be impossible to make a film of the Silmarillion in its entirety but some of its stories could stand on their own, for example Beren & Luthien & Turin Turambar.

Or is the whole idea sacrilege?


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## Tinuvien21 (Jan 6, 2004)

I wondered the same thing, but I don't think so. Because it has so many storylines, and names that someone who has never read it before could easily be thrown off. But if someone could do it, and make it really good, then that would be awesome.But I'd rather see The Hobbit be made into a movie B4 the Silmarillion. Because it has more to do with the LOTR movies.


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## Bullroarer (Jan 6, 2004)

Yeah I'd agree its the logical choice but it would interesting to see, especially Beren & Luthien, I think on reflection Turin's tale maybe a little depressing for Hollywood & it's penchant for happy endings.


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## Flammifer (Jan 6, 2004)

The visuals are the things that would be the most difficult to produce. How could one be found that is as beautiful as Luthien, or as Varda, or indeed how could one make the Two Trees and do them justice? And what would Morgoth look like, and Iluvatar? And Manwe?

These are the obvious obstacles they would have to overcome. But I'd love to see someone attempt it. It'd be fantastic. Though it would need to be at least a three-part series.

I think that the story of Turin Turambar would be very difficult. There is a serious stigma that surrounds in-breeding (blech! yuck!), and I think this would be particularly hard to portray on-screen without it seeming just gross.


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## nthman (Jan 6, 2004)

I agree wholeheartedly that Beren and Luthien may make for a good movie. It could even be tied to the LOTR movies since Aragorn sings the Lay of Luthien in FOTR. I can see the Nit Pickers pulling their hair out over this though. And the names in the book might be the biggest obstacle to any part of the story. I had hell trying to remember who was who in print. On screen it would be a nightmare. I'd love to see the very beggining of the book though. The song of creation even though it probably couldn't be done justice.


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## Úlairi (Jan 6, 2004)

I don't even think it is possible to make _The Silmarillion_ into a film, it is far too complex.


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## Flammifer (Jan 7, 2004)

Perhaps you're right Úlairi. A film might be too difficult. Maybe they could be made into a television series? One or two chapters per episode?


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## Éomond (Jan 7, 2004)

Flammifer said:


> Perhaps you're right Úlairi. A film might be too difficult. Maybe they could be made into a television series? One or two chapters per episode?



I think'd if they did it like that each episode would have to be almost an hour and a half long. It seems to me that each chapter would take about a hour, but, then again, there could be some stuff that could be left out or shortend.


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## Úlairi (Jan 7, 2004)

But even then, to make a half-decent mini-series out of it is going to require big bucks, and let's face it, probably even more than _The Lord of the Rings_ trilogy itself. However, they're not going to make any profit whatsoever from DVD sales, they might make a lot, but I believe it likely that there would be little (or loss of) profit, and would therefore be pointless to make it into a mini-series in the first place.


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## Snaga (Jan 7, 2004)

You could make a whole bunch of different movies from the Silmarillion tales. The effects are no problem. Arwen was supposed to be like Luthien reborn, and noone said "Liv Tyler is too ugly". Lets face it; with the advent of CGI, there is not much that could not be done.

If Hollywood could get the rights, they would already have this planned out. It is a potential gold mine. It would ride the wave of enthusiasm generated by the LotR movies, and you could get 6 or 7 movies out of it, no problem.


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## Úlairi (Jan 7, 2004)

Maybe, but there'd be the 'Unknown Risk Factor', take 'The Matrix Revolutions' for example. Flunked when it was supposed to be the greatest film of our time, people might become tired of the tediousness, another problem is gossip. It appears that people more often than not, listen to critics. When I asked a few friends of mine whether or not they had seen Matrix 3, they said no. When asked why? They told me that they were told it was bad, from other people.


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## Lantarion (Jan 8, 2004)

The amount of dialogue in the Silmarillion is so scant that either the screenplay-writer would have to invent pages and pages of it, or then the whole endeavout could never be executed in the first place. 
And I wouldn't want them to.


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## Snaga (Jan 8, 2004)

Indeed, Ulairi. There is a risk to making any movie. Hollywood is adept at managing risk, but they are not immune to failure. "Waterworld" is the best example. Having an existing fan base to milk would be a good starting point for New Line (or whoever took it on), but it doesn't guarantee a good movie.

Lantarion: your fears would not be shared by a Hollywood studio. Most movies start with no dialogue at all, until the writers get to work. I also wonder what proportion of the LotR movie dialogue was original, rather than from the books. Over 50% I would think.


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## Úlairi (Jan 8, 2004)

Snaga said:


> Indeed, Ulairi. There is a risk to making any movie. Hollywood is adept at managing risk, but they are not immune to failure. "Waterworld" is the best example. Having an existing fan base to milk would be a good starting point for New Line (or whoever took it on), but it doesn't guarantee a good movie.



Yeah, agreed, but 6 or 7 movies (which is the amount I should think to make it half-decent) would become tedious, and people would have to constantly remember previous instances from the other 4 or 5 they'd previously seen.


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## Snaga (Jan 9, 2004)

You're a pessimist! Each movie would need to be more or less self-contained. The sort of 'to be continued' endings in FotR and TTT would not do. But that seems eminently achievable. Beyond that, the trick would be to make good movies!


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## Úlairi (Jan 10, 2004)

Skeptical is what I like to call myself Snaga!  No, I agree with you, but you in your turn too, must also do some agreeing. Agree that in order for these movies to be good, they're gonna have to be damn good! I mean the same style as _Lord of the Rings_ good.


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## Snaga (Jan 10, 2004)

If by that you mean that it would be more disappointing if an adaptation of a book you love doesn't live up to expectations than if it were any other movie, then I would agree.


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## Úlairi (Jan 10, 2004)

Indeed.


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## Morgaphry (Jan 14, 2004)

Don't even contemplate Hollywood making any Tolkien work into a movie.
Only Jackson and Wingnut could pull off anything from the Silmarillion.
Despite the fact that to make the Silmarillion would be like making a history book into a film, certain parts could be singled out: Beren/Luthien, Fall of Gondolin, Downfall of Numenor, Siege of Angband, The Ruin of Beleriand, The Great Armament.

These would still not be successful. The public would simply see Beren and Luthien as a copy of Arwen and Aragorn, Gondolin as a copy of Minas Tirith, and the rest as big battles, nothing more.

The big question is: Would Tolkien readers rather have the Silmarillion immortalised in print or have it probably heavily reworked to adapt to cinema.

Thanks
Morgaphry


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## aulendil (Feb 12, 2004)

*Another trilogy?*

Since reading the Silmarillion again recently, after much preperation with various guides etc, and for the first time finishing Quenta Silmarillion, I considered the possibility of transfering it to the screen.
Having given a little thought I believe the most movie friendly way forward would be as follows.

A trilogy of the later Quenta Silmarillion opening with a prologue concerning the forging of the silmarils and the return (for the sake of the movie "coming"?) of Melkor to ME. 
Then jump to the Battle of Sudden Flame (?) as a quick apetite whetter and move into Beren and Luthien.
This constitutes part 1.

Part 2 would be in the best traditions of trilogies, the darkest of the three and would cover Turin the Battle of Tears and the downfall of Doriath.

Part 3 would cover the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath. Giving the final part a Big Battle and a Happy(ish) ending.

Many bit characters from LOTR would get bigger roles.The broad structure would remain in a similar vain to LOTR and at least one great chunk of the story (The fall of Gondolin) would be ommited, thus giving the fundamentalists here something to moan about for a few years. Heh heh.

Apologies for any errors in above as im sat in a car typin on a laptop writing this with no references to look at.

To round things off the Akkalabeth would make a single Movie tying the End of the Silmarillion to LOTR very nicely. 

Come to think of it please note that all references to LOTR are to PJ's re-imagining NOT the book. So keep them knickers untwisted OK.


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## Garwen (Feb 14, 2004)

*Silmarillion/movie*

I'd like to see the Silmarillion made into a movie, but I agree it would be too difficult, and spendy, and long. But It would be good to see if some one would attempt it one day


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## krash8765 (Feb 14, 2004)

The Silmarillion is just a very good book and i think it should stay that way. I would definately see it if it became a motion picture but its just one of those things you leave to your imagination.


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## Mornambar (Mar 31, 2004)

I dont think that the silmarilllion could ever be made into a movie with any satisfaction.

1. If they made one movie it there wouldn't be enough time to do it justice (Unless it was like 20 hours long).

2. Think about the desrciptions of Aman, Valinor, Tirion etc. How could they ever do that any justice in a movie?

3. The budget would have to be through the roof. Well over a billion just to produce something like a mini series.


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## Eriol (Mar 31, 2004)

I don't think there should be any technical difficulty. The visual problems are more of an artistic nature; and if we are satisfied with the many Silmarillion drawings that we see on the net (and in TTF), I believe that to reproduce that in the big screen is not hard nowadays, given the technological advances; or at least it won't be hard in the near future. (I don't know a lot about this ).

Money should be a limiting factor. This kind of special effects movie is expensive. It doesn't have the widespread appeal of LotR (lots of people stop reading Tolkien quite pleased with LotR, never reaching the Sil). But all of that is just amateur opinion. It is feasible; if it is profitable (and I think it is), it will eventually be done. 

I'll probably like it a lot . And I agree that only some stories would be told. I don't expect to see a lot about the Great March or the Valaquenta . But I expect to see, in my lifetime, movies about Beren & Lúthien, Túrin, Fëanor, etc.; even if only for television.


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## Lantarion (Mar 31, 2004)

> But I expect to see, in my lifetime, movies about Beren & Lúthien, Túrin, Fëanor, etc.; even if only for television.


I'm not a religious person, but I hope and pray that you are wrong.


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## Eriol (Mar 31, 2004)

Well, I intend to live a LOT . Perhaps in 50 years we'll have technology so that each one of us will be able to produce a Silmarillion story in our homes . 50 years is a lot of years at the current pace of technological development.


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## Lantarion (Apr 1, 2004)

Hm, that is a nice, more optimistic view.. We'll have to see!


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## Ireth Telrúnya (Apr 1, 2004)

I doubt the Silmarillion could be turned into a film. It's simply too full of information and everything to be made easily understood by masses.


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## Morgoth Bauglir (Apr 3, 2004)

*Alright, this would have to be the ONLY way......*

These are the conditions under which ANY form of The Silmarillion on film would work. Feel free to add or subtract;

1. Peter Jackson and Wingnut would be in charge of the ENTIRE production.

2. The movie (not mini-series, not TV show) would have to be given in several installments, probably more so than a trilogy; 3 movies at the very least, 6 movies at the very most (Star Wars, anyone?)

3. The text would have to be subjegated to SEVERE editing on the part of PJ, downsizing and/or removing the more confusing and less important parts; i.e. The Shaping of Arda, The Chaining of Melkor and all that boring peace....

4. Individual stories, such as Beren & Luthien, Turin Turambar, Hurin, Eol, and all those other little "quests" and "journeys" would probably have to be left out entirely. I'm sorry, but it will serve no purpose but to take away from the actual plot; the war with Morgoth, and they both are just so fairy-talish that it would lose the core audience like that (snaps fingers). They'd probably be mentioned on the side, but I think they'd have to be let out nearly altogether.

5. The five battles would have to be the endings to five of the movies, thereby making them more exiting and altogether cooler.

6. Star power is NOT an option. PJ must use his perfect formula of taking small actors and MAKING them huge, not vice versa. Big names would do nothing but make one character the star, which would probably ruin the film altogether. Plus, too many people die during the course of the movie for anyone to get attached to a certain character.

7. Special effects must be used ad nauseum. No actor would be able to acurately portray any of the Vala, nor Ungoliant, not the Balrogs, nor Sauron, nor Illuvatar. All would have to be created with special effects, as well as the Two Trees, the Great Lamps, and most of Valinor at large.

8. With Morgoth, no evil is too evil. Remember, this guy was the ultimate darkness; everything he says and does in the movie must be PURE AND UNADULTERATED EVIL. For instance, during the duel with Fingolfin, Fingolfin can't just get hit once and die, Morgoth has to mess him up good. People have to look at Morgoth the way they see Darth Maul (another SW refference, I know); no good, just cold darkness.

9. The battle scenes must be full-scale. I'm talking about apocalyptic warfare, Biblical scale, no holds barred bloody combat. They've got to be better than the Siege of Minas Tirith in ROTK; that scene was pretty amazing.

10. They can't have such drawn out endings, like in ROTK. That just makes people get up and leave. I'm sorry, but it's true.

There you have it. That's the ONLY way it could be pulled off and still be successful, not to mention the help of shameless promoting on the part of Wingnut.


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## Confusticated (Apr 3, 2004)

Eriol said:


> Perhaps in 50 years we'll have technology so that each one of us will be able to produce a Silmarillion story in our homes . 50 years is a lot of years at the current pace of technological development.


I am waiting for that! 

And yes it is!

Is it true the Japanese (who will develope the movie making software and equiptment ) have made a cell phone special for noisy surroundings... one that somehow causes the voice of the person on the other end to be heard within the head of the listener?


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## Capitan Pirata (Apr 16, 2004)

I prefer Silmarillion on book, I´m not interested so far in see it coming to fresh and blood people and live action on film (a very long long film) with a massive overwhelming FX enviroment or something(Overwhelming has to be, to represent all that  ) 
Coz it will lose all the magic and we would have just another total FX-too fantastic and hard to believe movie, as many we see these days and in future we will see more.
Well, anyway, it would be interesting to imagine how it could be


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