# Trolls Turning into Stone via Daylight



## AnathemicOne (Oct 27, 2010)

I haven't really thought about this and I would like it cleared up now that I do think about it.

In The Hobbit, the three trolls turn into stone because of their bickering lasting far too long and they were exposed to daylight. But in the Lord of the Rings (I haven't finished yet so I'm going off film trilogy) trolls fight in war at daylight.

Is there any mention of trolls fighting in war in the books or is purely Jackson's whim?

If the former then, why don't the trolls during battle turn into stone, is it because they are bred in Mordor or what?


----------



## Elanor2 (Oct 28, 2010)

Trolls turn to stone in daylight and orcs (except for the Uruk-hai of Saruman) cannot fight in the daylight either because it scares them.

Before sending his armies from Mordor against Minas Tirith, Sauron will cover the sun with darkness.


----------



## Mike (Oct 28, 2010)

Also, in the Appendix, Tolkien writes of the "Olag-hai", a specially-engineered troll breed resistant to sunlight. Half-trolls from far Harad are mentioned in the text itself. While the stone trolls from _The Hobbit_ appear, there's no instances of Trolls turning to stone when exposed to sunlight in _The Lord of the Rings_, even at Pelennor Fields and The Battle of the Morannon, where they're definitely present.

The usual thing to do is just consider those trolls Olag-hai and not worry about it.


----------



## Elthir (Oct 29, 2010)

Concerning the _Olog-hai_ 'Unlike the older race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them.' JRRT, Appendix F

Also, in _The Lord of the Rings_ there are orcs who both run under the sun, and fight under it. For examples:


In _The Battle Of The Pelennor Fields_ the orcs of Mordor appear to fight on after the Sun shines (a great wind blew, and the rain went North). The hosts of Mordor, which I would say included orcs (orcs that are said, after Aragorn is revealed, to have hated the Sunlight), were actually heartened by the Black Sails. Éomer's words include singing in the Sun as he prepared to face Mordor, and then Aragorn and Company are revealed and a dread falls upon the enemy. These orcs do not like the Sun but appear quite ready to battle on when thinking that the ships contained enemies of the West.

Orcs don't like the Sun. Perhaps even Saruman's Isengarders would prefer darkness if given the choice, but in any case the evidence appears to imply that the Isengarders are arguably _better_ at enduring it than others orcs met in the tale, though even they are possibly matched by a few 'larger, bolder' Northerners. At one point the Mordorians run 'hour after hour' under the Sun without complaint, and even when they drop back at one point (compared to the Isengarders), the text makes it clear that 'the writer of the tale' cannot know (or tell) the exact reason why (the writer gives two options for the reader to entertain).

I haven't looked at the _Silmarillion_ texts (yet) concerning the matter, but in general I'm not sure the suggestion from certain descriptions in _The Hobbit_ necessarily speaks for all orcs in the legendarium.


----------



## Bucky (Nov 7, 2010)

Mike said:


> Half-trolls from far Harad are mentioned in the text itself.



*Actually, that's not accurate. It's in the Battle of Pelannor Fields and reads thus'.And Black Men with red tongues from Far Harad LIKE half trolls' (paraphrase, but I bet I'm pretty darn close). So, they weren't half trolls, just writtren from a Hobbit-centric viewpoint, having never seen a Black Man, seemed like 'half-trolls'.


On why the problem with light:

And it's written in either The Silmarillion or Children of Hurin "It is the dark mark of their master that they cannot endur the sunlight." concerning Orcs. 

*


----------



## Elthir (Nov 8, 2010)

Bucky said:


> On why the problem with light: And it's written in either The Silmarillion or Children of Hurin "It is the dark mark of their master that they cannot endur the sunlight." concerning Orcs.


 
I'm not wholly sure which citation you're referring to here, but _if_ it's Treebeard from _The Lord of the Rings,_ he says: 'It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's Orcs can endure it, even if they hate it. I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a black evil!'

Tolkien once noted: 'Treebeard is a character in my story, not me; and though he has a great memory and some earthy wisdom, he is not one of the Wise, and there is quite a lot he does not know or understand.' JRRT, Letter 153

Right or wrong about 'why', in any case had Treebeard been with Merry and Pippin, he would have (at least) seen that a few of the Northerners, and all of the Mordorians, ran very well under the sun, arguably as well as Saruman's Uruks. And he would have heard the Northerners (in general) being berated directly after complaining about running under the Sun, which included that they were half-trained. 

In the Elder Days some Orcs _appear_ to have endured the Sunlight -- for example, noting the description surrounding the fourth day of the Fifth Battle (Tears Unnumbered), where in my opinion, the narrative seems to present Orcs fighting under the Sun.


----------

