# Why aren't there names in the present like in M-e?



## Meselyn (Aug 19, 2003)

I have been pondering this question since i read all the name s in the index of names in the similarion. I the noticed that they are nothing like the names in present days. Have we really evevolved so much that we think odd names are just to abnormal?


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## Celebthôl (Aug 20, 2003)

Well many of those names are Sindarin such as "Gil-Galad" which is "Star-Gazer" (i think), and we do not use Sindarin obviously.

But i believe the names got worn out over time so eventually we had to come up with new names.


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## Zale (Aug 20, 2003)

What about all the biblical names that were around at the very least 2000 years ago, like John, Paul and Peter? They haven't been worn out yet.
Don't forget also that Tolkien made most of his names up, using either Sindarin or Quenya; obviously, before the publication of his works, nobody could have used them. I wouldn't bet against a fair amount being used in the future, though.


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## Meselyn (Aug 20, 2003)

well someday when tolkien is treated like a god like person. Maybe just maybe they'll use the names.


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## Arebeth (Aug 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Meselyn _
> *well someday when tolkien is treated like a god like person. Maybe just maybe they'll use the names. *



I think some M-E names are used yet. I've heard of people having called their children like that in the seventies... Anyway, I don't know if Tolkien will ever be treated like a God (understand, I'm not saying that he doesn't _deserve_ to). Maybe it's not the place to start such a discussion.


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## Turin (Aug 26, 2003)

What would be the origin of Samwise? I mean Sam is a normal name but what does the "wise" on the end mean?


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## BlackCaptain (Aug 26, 2003)

We haven't evolved.... People just never thought to name their children ''Merry'' ''Pippin'' ''Frodo'' or ''Galdor'' before around the 1950's when the books were published. So who knows... maybe over a long period of time we'll start naming our children those names.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 26, 2003)

Someday. . .I thought about naming my son Strider. Shrug. . .I don't think my husband will go along with that. . .

Of course I am not married and do not have a son. . .


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## Celebthôl (Aug 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *Someday. . .I thought about naming my son Strider. Shrug. . .I don't think my husband will go along with that. . .
> 
> Of course I am not married and do not have a son. . . *



Why not Aragorn or Elessar....or is i because of the image of the ranger Strider all rugged etc and not the kingly Aragorn or Elessar?


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## TheFool (Aug 27, 2003)

I remember a documentary snippet (or something like that) of Tolkien sending an autographed copy of LOTR to someone called Sam Gamgee


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## HLGStrider (Aug 27, 2003)

> Why not Aragorn or Elessar....or is i because of the image of the ranger Strider all rugged etc and not the kingly Aragorn or Elessar



Strider is cuter. . .sort of the Hunter type name. I was fonder of Strider because it, too me, has a dimond in the rough sort of feel.


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## Meselyn (Aug 31, 2003)

people get that feeling all the time i hear.


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## Gary Gamgee (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Turin _
> *What would be the origin of Samwise? I mean Sam is a normal name but what does the "wise" on the end mean? *



Samwise means half-wise or simple.

The name Rohan is a popular boys name in India.


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## Turin (Sep 6, 2003)

Ok, that makes sence. Imagine being named Rohan.


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## Yavanna (Sep 10, 2003)

Well my friend really wants to call her daughter Arwen. I think her other friends will actually deny her having children if she is serious about it though  .


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## Inderjit S (Sep 11, 2003)

A lot of the names given in LoTR are Sindarin. (Place names and names of actual people.) Sindarin is a fictional language which was made up by Tolkien, therefore people couldn't give names to objects/people when the words that Tolkien used weren't in existence. Though Elvish forms are said to be similar in style to some forms (Quenya-Latin, Sindarin-Welsh and a Finnish language whose name I have forgotten).




> It is difficult to accept these two homophonic elements - of unconnected, indeed unconnectable, meanings - as used in Sindarin, or Sindarized names.# It is also unfortunate that the first appears too reminiscent of Latin rōs ['dew'] or Greek drosos, and the latter too close to well-known modern European 'red' words: as Latin russus, Italian rosso, English russet, rust, etc. However, the Elvish languages are inevitably full of such reminiscences, so that this is the lesser difficulty


 _Shibboleth of Feanor_ (HoME 12)

The 'shire-names' are translations. 



> The name of the Shire (Sûza) and all other places of die Hobbits have thus been Englished. This was seldom difficult, since such names were commonly made up of elements similar to those used in our simpler English place-names; either words still current like hill or field; or a little worn down like ton beside town. But some were derived, as already noted, from old hobbit-words no longer in use, and these have been represented by similar English things, such as wich, or bottle 'dwelling', or michel 'great'.
> In the case of persons, however, Hobbit-names in the Shire and in Bree were for those days peculiar, notably in the habit that had grown up, some centuries before this time, of having inherited names for families. Most of these surnames had obvious meanings in the current language, being derived from jesting nicknames, or from place-names, or (especially in Bree) from the names of plants and trees. Translation of these presented little difficulty; but there remained one or two older names of forgotten meaning, and these I have been content to anglicize in spelling: as Took for Tûk, or Boffin for Bophîn.
> Thus Bree, Combe (Coomb), Archet, and Chetwood are modelled on relics of British nomenclature, chosen according to sense: bree hill, chet "wood*. But only one personal name has been altered in this way. Meriadoc was chosen to fit the fact that this character's shortened name. Kali, meant in the Westron 'jolly, gay', though it was actually an abbreviation of the now unmeaning Buckland name Kalimac.
> I have not used names of Hebraic or similar origin in my transpositions. Nothing in Hobbit-names corresponds to this element in our names. Short names such as Sam, Tom, Tim, Mat were common as abbreviations of actual Hobbit-names, such as Tomba, Tolma, Matta, and the like. But Sam and his father Ham were really called Ban and Ran. These were shortenings of Banazîr and Ranugad, originally nicknames, meaning 'half-wise, simple' and 'stay-at-home', but being words that had fallen out of colloquial use they remained as traditional names in certain families. I have therefore tried to preserve these features by using Samwise and Hamfast, modernizations of ancient English samwís and hámfæst which corresponded closely in meaning


 _appendix E_ 

There are of course words which are similar to actual words in other languages. One example is Tolkien's use of the word 'Ent'. 'Ent' is what the Rohirrim called the Onodrim, but 'Ent' is also old English for 'giant' This was intentional by Tolkien as he wished for the language of the Mark to be similar to Old English.


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## Valdarmyr (Sep 12, 2003)

I know I'm not talking about _people_ with Middle-Earth names here, but you probably remember that post on the Forum some months back about "Gandalf Airlines" based in Italy. Look it up on the internet! Someone said their commercials should say, "Fly, you fools!"

And of course there are scads of businesses that call themselves Palantir-this and Palantir-that...

After I watched the Antonio Banderas movie "The 13th Warrior," I kind of fancied the name of the king, Hrothgar.  Guess I go for those Norse-sounding names.

Maybe people don't name many kids after Middle Earth figures because the names don't roll off the tongue as easily, they sound "antiquated," or they might sound a bit odd, much as we (I) love all the characters. 

I think some names would work, like Arwen, Elrond, Aragorn, maybe Bilbo if you live down South. (C'mon, really, I got nuthin' but love for ya!) It all depends on whether the family you're born into has the genes to pull something like that off and not mind what some people might say. I mean, remember that couple that named their kid Nascar? Another couple named their kid Espn, 'cause the father watched sports on TV so much! Seriously! 

PS...Inderjit S--you've got a cool avatar! And, excellent job on the background material.


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## Arvedui (Sep 12, 2003)

Well, _Eldar_ is not an uncommon male name in Norway, but aside from that, I can't think of any names that are in use.



> Though Elvish forms are said to be similar in style to some forms (Quenya-Latin, Sindarin-Welsh *and a Finnish language* whose name I have forgotten).



Did you mean _Finnish?_  Or Suomin?


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## Inderjit S (Sep 12, 2003)

> Inderjit S--you've got a cool avatar! And, excellent job on the background material



Thank you.



> Did you mean Finnish



I don't know. I think it was Kevillo or something, but I have forgotten. It was on the FoTR S:E DVD. 



> I mean, remember that couple that named their kid Nascar? Another couple named their kid Espn, 'cause the father watched sports on TV so much! Seriously!



The Beckham's, big-icons around the world, give their children ridiculous names. (Brooklyn and Romeo.)


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## Glory (Sep 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BlackCaptain _
> *We haven't evolved.... People just never thought to name their children ''Merry'' ''Pippin'' ''Frodo'' or ''Galdor'' before around the 1950's when the books were published. So who knows... maybe over a long period of time we'll start naming our children those names.  *


  Ohh well that would be great, is kinda odd but I think I know someone named Merry. So there you go it's already starting...


> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *Someday. . .I thought about naming my son Strider. Shrug. . .I don't think my husband will go along with that. . .
> Of course I am not married and do not have a son. . . *


 *laughs* ohh I have the feeling that you could do that... I actually have though in naming one of my kids, (in a far future of course), Akira and probably I'm going to try to pick one Elvish name for the other. It wouldn't be a problem here. I always can come up that the name is a náhuatl one or something like that. I mean how hard can it be in a country where you can name your daughter Xochitl or your son Moctezuma??   of course there are worst ones I just can't spell them or pronounce them...


> _Originally posted by TheFool _
> *I remember a documentary snippet (or something like that) of Tolkien sending an autographed copy of LOTR to someone called Sam Gamgee  *


I am not sure exactly why but I find that idea hilarious 


> _Originally posted by Turin _
> *Ok, that makes sence. Imagine being named Rohan. *


Rohan doesn't sound bad though is not a ME person's name.


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## Evenstar373 (Sep 20, 2003)

Naming a child Frodo would not be so bad ans why not name someone a LOTR name my mother made up one of my middle names


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## Meselyn (Sep 21, 2003)

yeah some people just make up some part of their childs name i guess.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Sep 23, 2003)

There was actually a contestant on a game show named Galadriel, but if she was named after the Elf I don't think she knew it, the host always called her "Gah-LAYD-ree-el" and she didn't say anything about it. I think Elvish names are beautiful, but I don't know if I would ever go so far as to stick one on a kid...It would be awfully fun though.


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## jallan (Sep 28, 2003)

Names based on fiction and names based on old legend do sometimes become popular at which point the seem normal.

For example the rare name Wendy was in effect reinviented by J. M. Barrie for his play _Peter Pan_. Modern use of the name probably came 99% from that.

See The History of Wendy.

There is the very creative and nice guy Elessar Merlyn Tetramariner who had his name legally changed years and years ago.

Also there is 13-year old recording star Aselin Debison whose name was given to her by her parents as an invented feminine form of the name _Aslan_ from C.S. Lewis’ series of books “The Chronicles of Narnia”.


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## Evenstar373 (Sep 28, 2003)

I would never name a child Samwise because It means half wise


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## jallan (Sep 28, 2003)

It's better than Samstupid.


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## Evenstar373 (Sep 28, 2003)

what???????????


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## Rhiannon (Oct 2, 2003)

I saw a 'Rohan' as a contestant of Jeopardy! once.

I know someone who knows someone whose hippie parents named her 'Lorien'- she hates it and only answers to 'Laurie'. 

In _The Great Gilly Hopkins_, Gilly's real name is Galadriel, but I don't _think_ LOTR is ever directly referenced (Gilly is a foster child, I believe). 

I asked my parents if they ever thought about giving me any sort of fantasy name, and apparently it never occured to them. That didn't stop them from giving me a bizarre, obscure, difficult to spell name; there just aren't a lot of people named 'Charis' out there, and most of them don't pronounce it 'karr-iss'.


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## WishIWasArwen (Oct 4, 2003)

This is funny...
A few hours ago I was seriously considering naming my future daughters Arwen and Eowyn...


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## Rhiannon (Oct 4, 2003)

> A few hours ago I was seriously considering naming my future daughters Arwen and Eowyn...



Why not? I think it's a marvelous idea. I have a friend who's said she'll name her first daughter Charis Eowyn Guinevere- I'm waiting to see if she'll go through with it  

btw re your signature, have you read Robin McKinley's _Beauty_?


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## Adrastea (Oct 4, 2003)

I read quite a while ago in the newspaper that there has been a great increase in names from big block buster movies. Parents are now naming their kids after their favourite characters in movies. It had figures of how many people were named and stuff but I totally forget. The main ones were Trinity from Matrix, Harry and Hermione and Ron from Harry Potter and Pippin, Frodo, Arwen and Eowyn from Lotr. It is interesting how things can easily influence people.


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## Rhiannon (Oct 4, 2003)

Well, _Madison_ has been one of the top fifty girls' names ever since the movie _Splash_ came out.


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## WishIWasArwen (Oct 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rhiannon _
> *Why not? I think it's a marvelous idea. I have a friend who's said she'll name her first daughter Charis Eowyn Guinevere- I'm waiting to see if she'll go through with it
> 
> btw re your signature, have you read Robin McKinley's Beauty? *



I think it's quite a good idea too, but I've got a long way to go before I'll have any daughters in waiting to be named. Hopefully by then these names won't have made their ways onto the "Most Popular Names" lists. I want my kids to be named something different and unique (Quickie Factoid: 24 babies have been named Unique in the last 24 months). But Arwen and Eowyn are always options.
About that book, no I haven't read it. Why do you ask? Should I? I'm always looking for new books to add to my "Books to Read" list.


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## Rhiannon (Oct 7, 2003)

It's a _great_ book, I think everyone should read it. I adore it. But I asked because it features a library with most every book in the world. It's enough to make a bibliophile swoon.


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## Amarië (Oct 20, 2003)

The copy of 'Measure for Measure' that I am using to study at school is edited by a guy named Richard Proudfoot! How cool is that!
~A~


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## Samwise_hero (Oct 20, 2003)

There would be more names like the one's in ME if people chose to call their children by those sorts of names. I reckon it'd be pretty cool with a little variation between worlds...hmmm.....


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