# Was Galadriel the last?



## Rangerdave (Mar 23, 2002)

I feel rather silly asking this, but I was just never sure.

1. Was Galadriel the last remaining Elf on Middle Earth to have witnessed the Light of the Trees?

2. Was the ban of the Noldor lifted when she passed the "test of the ring" or when Sauron was destroyed?

Any thoughts
Thanks

RD


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## Eonwe (Mar 24, 2002)

I guess there isn't another elf with evidence in the book of seeing the light of the two trees.

The other candidates are (I think?):
1) Gildor?
2) Erestor?
3) Glorfindel?
4) Celeborn? Wasn't there a writeup that had him and Galadriel meeting because he was a Teleri on Tol Eressa?

Thranduil probably never did, Elrond certainly didn't, Cirdan didn't although he was I guess older than Galadriel.

The Doom was lifted after the War of Wrath I think for most of the Noldor, I can't remember where the writeup is for why it held on longer for her (because she was one of the leaders of the Noldor out of Aman?). For her, I guess its probably splitting hairs as far as whether it was at the Mirror of Galadriel or at the end of the War of the Ring.


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## Elanor2 (Mar 24, 2002)

We do not know how many Noldors remain in ME. Of the known ones, only Galadriel and Glorfindel (and he was resurrected) are still around.

The ban was lifted after the War or Wrath, but Galadriel refused to return. I am not sure if this refusal made her a sort of outcast until he could prove herself again (refusing the ring), or if it did not matter. There are several accounts and different possible solutions. Tolkien did not finish all the rewritting on Galadriel and Celeborn, so it is difficult to know what his intentions were.


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## Hirila (Mar 27, 2002)

The only Glorfindel I can remember is the one who died after the fall of Gondolin.

I think, too, that Galadriel is the only one left who saw the trees.

But another question:
Is the Glorfindel of the LotR theone from Gondolin? I think no. But it is said , too, that Glorfindel is one of the oldest elves.


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## Legolam (Mar 27, 2002)

Aaaargh! Hirila, don't getinto the one or two Glorfindel question!! Try searching for it on the Forum, and you'll see how many discussions we've had about it and we're still no closer to the answer


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## Nicholas Blake (Mar 29, 2002)

I believe Tolkein said that Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell are the same person in one of his letters...


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## Strider97 (Mar 29, 2002)

The Glorfindle thread debated this extensively. The opinion seems to be that it was an error that Tolkien chose not to correct. IMO Tolkien would not have pulled the resurrection theme out of the hat twice and If he did it would not have been an elf. Gandalf was a maia similar to angels to the Valar. Elfs had long lives on ME but could perish from injury.

Galadriel as far as we can see from the text is the last known to have seen the light remaining on ME. Theothers would be speculation.

The debate on Galadriel centers around the destruction of Sauron or the refusal of the ring. IMO She had direct control over refusing the ring (as a personal victory) and only partial input into the destruction of Sauron, helping to form the white council.


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## Cian (Mar 29, 2002)

Tolkien is very clear, in his essays, that the two Glorfindels are the same.

The name was borrowed from legends already written of course. It "escaped reconsideration", ie the Prof didn't get a chance to consider it again (before publication). Oh well, into LotR it goes ... Tolkien also noting to himself on a draft that Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin.

Later, when JRRT eventually wrote his essays to this, all that most people knew about the character was what had been published at the time. And Elven reincarnation as a concept had been around for quite some time, from the very early legends; just to note that the basic concept was not invented as a device to explain the two Glorfindels being one (the basic concept saw revision), though obviously handy considering the apparent choice JRRT was interested in.

If folk want to toss out the late essays as 'unpublished' work, they are free to do so. Or maybe Tolkien was planning to write down something different, but never got around to it.

Maybe, maybe not ... what we do have however is the Prof asking himself the same question many folk ask all over the web: are the two Glorfindels the same?

And we can say that when JRRT sat down with paper to "find out", he answered yes


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## Ingwë (Aug 17, 2005)

*1. Was Galadriel the last remaining Elf on Middle Earth to have witnessed the Light of the Trees?*
It depends. If Celeborn was of the Teleri then he saw the Light of the Two Trees; Celeborn remained in the Middle-earth after Galadriel so maybe he was the last. If Celeborn was a Sinda then Galadriel was the Last 
Glorfindel...



> HoMe 12





> An Elf who had once known Middle-earth and had fought in the long wars against Melkor would be an eminently suitable companion for Gandalf. We could then reasonably suppose that Glorfindel (possibly as one of a small party,(1) more probably as a sole companion) landed with Gandalf - Olorin about Third Age 1000. This supposition would indeed explain the air of special power and sanctity that surrounds Glorfindel - note how the Witch-king flies from him, although all others (such as King Earnur) however brave could not induce their horses to face him (Appendix A (I, iv), RK p. 331). For according to accounts (quite independent of this case) elsewhere given of Elvish nature, and their relations with the Valar, when Glorfindel was slain his spirit would then go to Mandos and be judged, and then would remain in the Halls of Waiting until Manwe granted him release. The Elves were destined to be by nature 'immortal', within the unknown limits of the life of the Earth as a habitable realm, and their disembodiment was a grievous thing. It was the duty, therefore, of the Valar to restore them, if they were slain, to incarnate life, if they desired it - unless for some grave (and rare) reason: such as deeds of great evil, or any works of malice of which they remained obdurately unrepentant. When they were re-embodied they could remain in Valinor, or return to Middle-earth if their home had been there. We can therefore reasonably suppose that Glorfindel, after the purging or forgiveness of his part in the rebellion of the Noldor, was released from Mandos and became himself again, but remained in the Blessed Realm - for Gondolin was destroyed and all or most of his kin had perished. We can thus understand why he seems so powerful a figure and almost 'angelic'. For he had returned to the primitive innocence of the First-born, and had then lived among those Elves who had never rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar (2) for ages: from the last years of the First Age, through the Second Age, to the end of the first millennium of the Third Age: before he returned to Middle-earth.(3) It is indeed probable that he had in Valinor already become a friend and follower of Olorin. Even in the brief glimpses of him given in The Lord of the Rings he appears as specially concerned for Gandalf, and was one (the most powerful, it would seem) of those sent out from Rivendell when the disquieting news reached Elrond that Gandalf had never reappeared to guide or protect the Ring-bearer.


 *2. Was the ban of the Noldor lifted when she passed the "test of the ring" or when Sauron was destroyed?*
Tolkien's thought about the Ban changed in the years... Maybe she doesn't have a Ban or, if she had, it was lifted when she passed the test. Also, she wanted to go back to Valinor and thew Valar see everything. She was proud but she was Wise. She wanted to return in the Blessed Realm. She helped the Fellowship so I don't think that the Ban was lifted when Sauron was destroyed. I think it was done before the overthrown of the Dark lord.


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## Valandil (Aug 17, 2005)

It sounds like we're only considering Elven royalty. I would expect there was some small percentage among the remaining Noldor on Middle Earth (the 'common people' among those Elves) who had seen the light of the trees and followed Feanor or the other Noldorian leaders to Middle Earth.


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## Elthir (Aug 17, 2005)

> 'She [Galadriel] was the last survivor of the princes and queens who had led the revolting Noldor to exile in Middle-earth. After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so (...) In the event, after the fall of Sauron, in reward for all that she had done to oppose him, but above all for her rejection of the Ring when it came within her power, the ban was lifted, and she returned over the Sea, as is told at the end of _The Lord of the Rings._' *The Road Goes Ever On*


 
This is an 'authorized' version in my opinion -- one that Tolkien published while he was alive. Celeborn is here (same source) said to be one of the Sindar (as opposed to a Teler of Aman). Tolkien had also published that Celeborn was one of the Sindar in the first edition of _The Lord of the Rings_. 

*Galin*


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