# Better Tracker: Gollum or Aragorn?



## childoferu (Aug 11, 2009)

Seriously, hmm?


----------



## HLGStrider (Aug 11, 2009)

Gollum definitely would have keeners senses of smell and hearing, honed by years in the dark, but if you think of "tracking" in the traditional human sense of looking for footprints and other signs, I can't remember Gollum ever doing this at all, so the answer is obviously Aragorn.

In fact, Gollum seems to find his marks by tenacity and being in the right place. He was waiting inside Moria and heard the Fellowship passing by so he followed. He lead by memory of locations, and then he knew where Frodo was headed so it would've been fairly simple to cut him off at the pass.

Aragorn, on the other hand, found Gollum who we all know is good at "sneaking." He seems capable of reading most signs and has lived in the wild woods all his life.

Now if you put them both in a dark environment, sure, Gollum would have the advantages, but under the sun or moon or in trees, definitely Aragorn.


----------



## childoferu (Aug 11, 2009)

HLGStrider said:


> Gollum definitely would have keeners senses of smell and hearing, honed by years in the dark, but if you think of "tracking" in the traditional human sense of looking for footprints and other signs, I can't remember Gollum ever doing this at all, so the answer is obviously Aragorn.
> 
> In fact, Gollum seems to find his marks by tenacity and being in the right place. He was waiting inside Moria and heard the Fellowship passing by so he followed. He lead by memory of locations, and then he knew where Frodo was headed so it would've been fairly simple to cut him off at the pass.
> 
> ...


 
Oh okay okay, thank you Loremaster Strider, cause I was definitely thinking Gollum of course, but I would like to see a post in support of Gollum


----------



## Illuin (Aug 12, 2009)

> Originally posted by *childoferu*
> _I was definitely thinking Gollum of course, but I would like to see a post in support of Gollum_


 


> *The Lord Of The Rings - The Great River*
> 
> _'What is it?' he whispered, springing up and coming to Frodo. 'I felt something in my sleep. Why have you drawn your sword?' 'Gollum,' answered Frodo. 'Or at least, so I guess.'_
> _'Ah!' said Aragorn. 'So you know about our little footpad, do you? He paddled after us all through Moria and right down to Nimrodel. Since we took our boats, he has been lying on a log and paddling with hands and feet.* I have tried to catch him once or twice at night; but he is slier than a fox*, *and as slippery as a fish*. I hoped the river-voyage would beat him, *but he is too clever a waterman*. 'We shall *have to try going faster tomorrow*.'_


 
Seems as though Aragorn (for knowing Gollum's every move) and Gollum (for being able to out-fox them) are both viewed as equals in the _"tracker"_ department. As far as raw skill, it would appear they are dead even. I think it is only common sense that would give Aragorn the edge. Gollum has a one track mind because of the Ring, which leads to flaws in his otherwise very impressive tracking capabilities.


----------



## childoferu (Aug 12, 2009)

Illuin said:


> Seems as though Aragorn (for knowing Gollum's every move) and Gollum (for being able to out-fox them) are both viewed as equals in the _"tracker"_ department. As far as raw skill, it would appear they are dead even. I think it is only common sense that would give Aragorn the edge. Gollum has a one track mind because of the Ring, which leads to flaws in his otherwise very impressive tracking capabilities.


 

Okay okay, _and_ thank you Loremaster Illuin (who actually put in the effort to look for that quote), so at first, I thought it was Gollum, now I can see they are about dead even, but still I kinda think Gollum's the better tracker, only at least because of the _AGE_ factor


----------



## Illuin (Aug 12, 2009)

> Originally posted by *childoferu*
> _but still I kinda think Gollum's the better tracker, only at least because of the AGE factor _


 
Opinions vary. The _one-dimensional_ thinking of Gollum cancels out the age factor in my opinion. 

*"Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king." (Ecclesiastes 4:13)*


Elementary, my dear Watson.


----------



## childoferu (Aug 12, 2009)

Well over the course of 500+ years, I wouldn't think that _all_ of Gollum's travelling over ME was driven by the ring...and how much does the ring _have_ to do with Gollum's tracking anyway?


----------



## HLGStrider (Aug 12, 2009)

K, here is my quote in favor of Aragorn, basically a referral from a friend and pointing out that Gollum may have tracked the fellowship but Aragorn tracked Gollum which would've been a much more difficult task.

"The trail was long and cold when I took it up again, after Bilbo left here. And my search would have been in vain, but for the help that I had from a friend: Aragorn, the greatest traveller and huntsman of this age of the world." 

Gandalf in FotR, The Shadow of the Past. Aragorn was not only about to follow and find Gollum but capture him, something Gollum never quite managed with Frodo and the ring. His two confrontations ended first with him getting himself captured and then with him in a volcano.


----------



## Illuin (Aug 12, 2009)

> Originally posted by *childoferu*
> _how much does the ring have to do with Gollum's tracking anyway?_


 
Have you ever looked for something and completely ignored everything else? I know I have in my day (won't go into what it was ).


----------



## childoferu (Aug 12, 2009)

HLGStrider said:


> K, here is my quote in favor of Aragorn, basically a referral from a friend and pointing out that Gollum may have tracked the fellowship but Aragorn tracked Gollum which would've been a much more difficult task.
> 
> "The trail was long and cold when I took it up again, after Bilbo left here. And my search would have been in vain, but for the help that I had from a friend: Aragorn, the greatest traveller and huntsman of this age of the world."
> 
> Gandalf in FotR, The Shadow of the Past. Aragorn was not only about to follow and find Gollum but capture him, something Gollum never quite managed with Frodo and the ring. His two confrontations ended first with him getting himself captured and then with him in a volcano.


 
Yea, I remember that quote and I guess we can trust the validity of Gandalf's statement, but maybe when he said that, he just never considered the abilities of Gollum

Oh, about Gollum never capturing Frodo, I only believe he was a better tracker than Aragorn, as in just finding stuff or more appropiately _someone_, after all, Gollum was just a bumbling pity of a creature while Aragorn was a Ranger of the North


----------



## HLGStrider (Aug 13, 2009)

True, Gandalf probably didn't enter Gollum into his calculations when picking out the best of the best, but I still think that the only incidents we have of tracking on both of their parts (and we have more evidence when dealing with Aragorn, so it is weighted in his favor), Aragorn simply does it better.

My point with saying Gollum was captured but never captured his target was more to proove that he was an obvious tracker rather than a subtle one. In order to catch something you are tracking you have to prevent your target from knowing you are onto it so that it doesn't evade or set a trap for you up ahead. If the target knows you are onto it, you aren't tracking so much as you are chasing. I'd define tracking as reading signs to find the location of something or to find out where it has been as opposed to chasing where you see the something or someone and just keep it in your sights. Gollum is relentless in his pursuit of Frodo, but he is marked first by Aragorn and later by Frodo, and Frodo is aware enough of his pursuit to set up a trap later.

The examples of Aragorn tracking that I can think of off the top of my head are in pursuit of Merry and Pippin and the pursuit of Gollum. 

Following a herd of Orcs leaving an obvious trail doesn't take that much skill, but he shows much more than basic talent in reading the trail, using it to gage the likelihood that his friend's remain alive, finding the places where their bodies bent the grass while they slept, etc. As I said there is more evidence of Aragorn's skill, so we don't know that Gollum couldn't do this as well, but just because we can't prove that it didn't happen isn't proof that it did. Here we have a point in Aragorn's favor and a question mark for Gollum.

Pursuing Gollum we have an example of Aragorn taking on a "cold case" with no recent trail to follow and finding his mark. He captured Gollum so he had to have gotten close without Gollum realizing he was being followed before it was too late. Now whether he backed Gollum into a corner somehow so that Gollum no longer had a place to flee too or simply overtook and overpowered him, I'm not sure. The first would show a certain amount of skill Gollum obviously lacks. The second, not so much. 

Gollum, on the other hand, after being foiled by the Great River, for some unknown reason, looses the trail of Bilbo and instead of pursuing him into the Shire returns to be captured by Sauron and eventually Aragorn. He only picks up the trail when it is again fresh and the ring is once more on the move. 

Here I think Aragorn again shows more obvious skill. Leet Ninja Skillz.


----------



## childoferu (Aug 13, 2009)

HLGStrider said:


> True, Gandalf probably didn't enter Gollum into his calculations when picking out the best of the best, but I still think that the only incidents we have of tracking on both of their parts (and we have more evidence when dealing with Aragorn, so it is weighted in his favor), Aragorn simply does it better.
> 
> My point with saying Gollum was captured but never captured his target was more to proove that he was an obvious tracker rather than a subtle one. In order to catch something you are tracking you have to prevent your target from knowing you are onto it so that it doesn't evade or set a trap for you up ahead. If the target knows you are onto it, you aren't tracking so much as you are chasing. I'd define tracking as reading signs to find the location of something or to find out where it has been as opposed to chasing where you see the something or someone and just keep it in your sights. Gollum is relentless in his pursuit of Frodo, but he is marked first by Aragorn and later by Frodo, and Frodo is aware enough of his pursuit to set up a trap later.
> 
> ...


 
"Leet Ninja Skillz." Haha, I guess Aragorn FTW


----------



## Withywindle (Aug 14, 2009)

Gollum was certainly a great hunter and fisher - a great outdoorsman if you like. But I don´t think there's any evidence he is a grat tracker: his pursiut of Frodo is totally due to the draw of the Ring which was something like a beacon flashing in his mind.

We can admire his resourcefulness and resilience in keeping apace with the Fellowship through the hazards of Moria, the swimming of Anduin, the scaling of the Emyn Muil without ropes etc., but his ability to follow a trail does not come into it. Its like saying that someone with a GPS is a great navigator.


----------

