# Elves and hunting



## Ithrynluin (Feb 12, 2007)

Throughout the books, we witness men (and hobbits, IIRC) hunting and eating meat. We know there were hunters among the elves, too: Celegorm was a renowned huntsman who learned much from Oromë, the huntsman of the Valar. Aredhel enjoyed hunting, too. 

So, do you think Elves were meat eaters? 

Well, some of the elves, at least, since the green elves of Ossiriand probably resorted to a vegetarian diet, due to their intimate relationship with nature.

Or did they just hunt for sport? 

We know that Oromë hunted the fell beasts of Morgoth when in Middle-earth, but what about Aman? What did they hunt there, seeing how this land was free of the Melkor element?

And how do you think all this made Yavanna feel, keeping in mind not only that it was the creatures from her domain that were being hunted, but also how distraught she was in the chapter 'Of Aulë and Yavanna', when she learned that the Children (including the dwarves) would chop down trees and whatnot?


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## Thorondor_ (Feb 12, 2007)

> So, do you think Elves were meat eaters?


Hm, I don't know; I only know of referrences of elven hunters (such as those who live in the Blue Mountains); also in the "Elvish name of the dwarves" appendix from Quendi and Eldar it is mentioned that the Eldar started hunting the petty dwarves, after they began thinking of them as beasts.


> the green elves of Ossiriand probably resorted to a vegetarian diet, due to their intimate relationship with nature.


Indeed, they told Finrod that they would attack the Men, because they felled trees and killed animals.


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## Gothmog (Feb 26, 2007)

I would say that Tolkien saw Elves as being Meat-eaters and not a people who simply hunted for sport.

In The Hobbit we find that when Bilbo and the Dwarves left the Forest Path to find the "Elvish looking folk" (who were later confirmed to be Wood-Elves) feasting:


> The smell of the roast *meats *was so enchanting that, without waiting to consult one another, every one of them got up and scrambled forwards into the ring with the one idea of begging for some food.



Also in The Book of Lost Tales I. we find while Eriol was in The Cottage of Lost Play, a mention of the food put before the Elves:


> Even as he gazed all arose and with one voice sang the song of the Bringing in of the *meats*


. 

And again in The Book of Lost Tales II. In the Tale of Tinuvial we see when Beren is brought back to the halls of Tinwelint:


> There did all the people flock to meet them when their approach was noised among them, and some bore them *meat *and cool drinks



Once more from The Book of Lost Tales II. In the Fall of Gondolin there is again mention of food:


> Here they made one meal of scanty food and broken *meats*; and Earendel quenched his thirst and played beside a little brook.



Also in The Lays of Beleriand in The Lay of the Children of Hurin: I Turin's Fostering


> On a time was Turin at the table of Thingol-
> there was laughter long and the loud clamour
> of a countless company that quaffed the mead,
> amid the wine of Dor-Winion that went ungrudged
> ...


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## Uminya (Mar 2, 2007)

Ithrynluin said:


> Well, some of the elves, at least, since the green elves of Ossiriand probably resorted to a vegetarian diet, due to their intimate relationship with nature.
> 
> Or did they just hunt for sport?



I would say that hunting for sport would contradict their relationship with nature. I would think think that hunting for food "morally" acceptable, as only sport-hunting or wanton slaughter are really something that would be considered out of the natural cycle.



> And how do you think all this made Yavanna feel, keeping in mind not only that it was the creatures from her domain that were being hunted, but also how distraught she was in the chapter 'Of Aulë and Yavanna', when she learned that the Children (including the dwarves) would chop down trees and whatnot?



She probably felt a touch of sadness that creatures had to die at all, but I think she would understand that the Eldar, Atani, and other Good Folk hunted for food, and not to destroy her favored creatures. The slaughter that the orcs and other evil creatures committed would most likely have made her very sad, perhaps angry, and that is most likely why the Ents are as they are. They are not so much bothered by a cut tree here and there, or a hunted deer, but when they saw the clear-cutting of the forest, and the wanton destruction, they went into a rage. I think that their behaviour most accurately reflects how their creator (Yavanna) would feel.

As for whether or not elves ate meat, I think Gothmog answered that quite adequately


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## Kementari (Mar 4, 2007)

The Green Elves were smart people

I believe Tom and Goldberry were also vegetarians, simply because their meals are described in detail, which include alot of milk products but no meat. Sound like lacto veggies to me

Since they had complete rule over all life in the Old Forest-- in a way that reminds me of the regional gods that were/are applied to local landmarks or resources in primitive religions around the world: the "lord of the mountian" "goddess of the river" ect-- and since they were apparently farmers, they had *access* to meat, but they didnt eat it

I guess this could help support a possible link to Yavanna


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## Arvedui (Mar 6, 2007)

I believe that Elves never hunted for the sport of it, but that they paid particular attention to picking the right game when hunting for food. In my opinion the Elves were concerned with keeping the balance in nature, through hunting animals that were in abundance and refraining from hunting species that were threatened by extinction. It would fit the role that Tolkien have given the Elves, as I have imagined them.


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## Elthir (Dec 13, 2007)

I took the passage from _Quendi And Eldar_ to mean that the Eldar hunted the petty dwarves not to eat them or for sport, but because they were thought to be dangerous cunning animals that attacked Elves (not that anyone took the passage another way).

'The Eldar did not at first recognize these as Incarnates, for they seldom caught sight of them in clear light. They only became aware of their existence indeed when they attacked the Eldar by stealth at night, or if they caught them alone in wild places. The Eldar therefore thought that they were a kind of cunning two-legged animals living in caves, and they called them _Levain tad-dail_, or simply _Tad-dail_, and they hunted them. But after the Eldar had made the acquaintance of the Naugrim, the _Tad-dail_ were recognized as a variety of Dwarves and were left alone.' Quendi And Eldar​ 

*Gothmog* did find some good references, but as they are 'early' with respect to source (_The Book of Lost Tales_, and _the Lay,_ if the quote from the Lay is not from the later version, as I only guess) -- and even some (though not me) might have problems with _The Hobbit_ -- perhaps just to 'beef up' the evidence (pun intended) I went searching for some later passages. And not that hunting itself was in question, but in any case it seems that Felagund went hunting with Maglor and Maedros in a text that might be dated 1958 -- or at least appears in a typescript of that date.

In the revised but abandoned _Fall of Gondolin_ Tuor speaks to Voronwe about hunting game, as food is a concern. Voronwe speaks of Lembas, and: 'But we must husband it until great need; and doubtless an outlaw and hunter may find other food ere the year worsens.'

In _Flotsam and Jetsam_ the Hobbits note pork among the lunch given to Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli. Merry describes the drink, and...

'And this is firt-rate salted pork. Or I can cut you some rashers of bacon and broil them, if you like. I am sorry there is no green stuff: the deliveries have been rather interrupted in the last few days! I cannot offer you anything to follow but butter and honey for your bread. Are you content?'​ 
Not the greatest of evidence here, perhaps, but I think the Reader would naturally assume that Legolas ate more than bread. Or at least I do. Anyway, just a couple more considerations, added to the previous.


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