# I don't like Elves!



## Gnashar_the_orc (Feb 12, 2002)

I don't like Elves! Seems to me they are way too perfect! They 're wise, they 're fair and they 're internal! They are too perfect for their own good! Does anybody else share the same views with me?


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## Harad (Feb 12, 2002)

What about the other side of Elves?. They are also prideful (Feanor), murderous (the Kin-Slaying), and supremely stubborn (sons of Feanor). Does this make you like them any better?


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## Gothmog (Feb 12, 2002)

Some are also downright nasty. Eol and Maeglin.


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## korhall (Feb 12, 2002)

but then there are the half-elfs, now they are cool. they have the grace and knowledge of elves with the strength of men, pretty sweet if you ask me.


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## Gary Gamgee (Feb 12, 2002)

dont like elves  tut silly orc


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## JoS Metadi (Feb 12, 2002)

Stupid "internal" elves. Always getting at you from the inside.  Good thing they aren't the same as Eternal elves, otherwise it would last forever. 

JoS


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## Harad (Feb 12, 2002)

Good English-to-English translation.


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## korhall (Feb 12, 2002)

the return of "ENGRISH" 
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH....(runs off screaming)


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## Anira the Elf (Feb 13, 2002)

dude, u have problems. elves are very respectable people and they are nice once u get to know them. u know that orcs used to be elves so u are insulting your own kind ( sort of). u would like me.... FOR DINNER!!!

* realizing what she just said she takes off running 

" so long suckers!!!!  "


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anira the Elf _
> *dude, u have problems. elves are very respectable people and they are nice once u get to know them. u know that orcs used to be elves so u are insulting your own kind ( sort of). u would like me.... FOR DINNER!!!
> 
> * realizing what she just said she takes off running
> ...





Yeah i think so 2   . Elves are the best, better then any orc.


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## Anira the Elf (Feb 14, 2002)

u got it dude. u are so right!!!!  

elves were around WAY before orcs were


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## Melian (Feb 14, 2002)

But Elves have pointed ears!That's a charming irregularity.


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## Branwen (Feb 14, 2002)

...and,some elves were pretty fond of beer(for example drunken Mirkwood elves in 'The Hobbit')


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## YayGollum (Feb 14, 2002)

Yay, Gnashar! I don't like them either. They are called the Firstborn when the Dwarves were created first. That's so evil. They are so boring because they just hide in their forests or run away to some stinky boring place on the sea. Gollum didn't like them either.


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## BelDain (Feb 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by YayGollum _
> *Yay, Gnashar! I don't like them either. They are called the Firstborn when the Dwarves were created first. That's so evil. They are so boring because they just hide in their forests or run away to some stinky boring place on the sea. Gollum didn't like them either. *



They are the Firstborn of the Children of Iluvatar.
The Dwarves don't change that.


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## Anarchist (Feb 14, 2002)

What I don't like from elves is that they are too proud. They think that being the firstborn makes the the best creatures in Middle Earth. I don't much like Orcs either though I pitty them. Dwarves are the best if you ask me. Hobbits too.


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## YayGollum (Feb 14, 2002)

No, the elves hadn't shown up yet and that one god who was like Hephaestus-the dude who was into making things with metal, I forget his name, was impatient for the elves to come so he made the Dwarves, but he didn't really know how to make them prettiful like the stinky elves, which is why they are all short and gruff and have beards. The Iluvitar dude came and he was like, "Hey, the elves were supposed to be first!" so the dude who made the Dwarves was about to kill them because he felt bad, but Iluvitar said, "Nah, just put them to sleep and we'll have the elves come later and then you can wake them up again." So, Ha! Dwarves were first!


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Feb 14, 2002)

*Down with the Elves*

Let's face it, Elves are arrogant folk, who presume they are always right and who think they can tell everybody else what to do! Bah!


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## YayGollum (Feb 14, 2002)

Yay Gnashar! I'll stick with you till all these others either give up on us or we convince them that elves are evil! A word of advice, don't go too overboard or they might kick you out like they did to that Harry Potter dude.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by YayGollum _
> *Yay, Gnashar! I don't like them either. They are called the Firstborn when the Dwarves were created first. That's so evil. They are so boring because they just hide in their forests or run away to some stinky boring place on the sea. Gollum didn't like them either. *






They were the firstborn they were with eru in his timeless halls. They might not have been the first born but they were made by eru and eru makes things the best. Aule wouldn't have the same quality.


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## Anira the Elf (Feb 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



ya, what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

na, na elves are better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anira the Elf _
> *
> 
> ya, what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...




Yeah that's right anira. Thanks


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Feb 15, 2002)

*Kick me out?*

YayGollum: Why would they kick me out? I've done nothing wrong apart from offending the Elves around here! Besides, Elves is nasty people. We (orcs) hates 'em! Kill all our friends and chase us out they did! We revenge for our cousins goblins! We revenge for the battle of five armies yes... yes...


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## YayGollum (Feb 15, 2002)

I don't know. I guess people are just having fun attacking the people who hate elves rather than getting mad at them. Beleg, what's the difference between firstborn without a space and first born with a space?


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## Anira the Elf (Feb 16, 2002)

one has a space and one doesn't. OH, i don't know!!!!!!

i like tormenting orcs ( and gollums). it is great pleasure. 1st i tie an elven rope around them, then i feed them lemblas, then i make them smell the sweet scent of the leaves of lothlorein.... shal i go on?


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## Vilya Elathelas (Feb 16, 2002)

*yes!*

DO go on! Elves are the BEST!! I can say as much--I am one. And this is the one thing I CANNOT accept anyone's opinion on unless it's the same as mine. Elves are the best, plain and simple!  oh yeah, Half-Elves are better.


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## Anira the Elf (Feb 16, 2002)

ok someone else besides beleg agrees w/ me.

can u think of any other torture we can bring apon them???


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## Vilya Elathelas (Feb 16, 2002)

*i know!*

Have elrond call the floods of the ford to knock them all down!! That'll show THEM!

Or you could tie them to a Lorien tree forever.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 17, 2002)

*Re: i know!*



> _Originally posted by Vilya Elathelas _
> *Have elrond call the floods of the ford to knock them all down!! That'll show THEM!
> 
> Or you could tie them to a Lorien tree forever. *





THERE IS NOT DIFFERENCE PART FORM 1 HAS A SPACE AND 1 DOESN'T. jUST A TYPO. You could rub a silmaril up and down them and bownd them with elvish rope to mallorn, with only lembas and elvish water to eat and drink.


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Feb 17, 2002)

Darn Elves... All they do is moan-moan-moan... Darn conservative Elves...


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## Anira the Elf (Mar 9, 2002)

oh, im really starting 2 like this!!!!!oh- ya!! elves kick a**!!!!!!  

( beleg:       )


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## Eomer Dinmention (Mar 9, 2002)

What there trying to say is that Elves are just too PERFECT.

I think the saying "No ones perfect" is true.

Elves are perfect in everyway nearly, well most of the elves. Its just stupid. 

Like Men have the desire of POWER

Drawves for their gold.

And Elves just perfect. Now that sucks.

I don't hate Elves but i just think it was wrong to make Elves so perfect


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 9, 2002)

Elves are not perfect. They think that they are, and that makes them conceeded.


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## Aroghel (Mar 9, 2002)

well not _all_ Elves think they are perfect - I know I don't. Besides - what about the Ainur, Maia, and other god-like beings? Elves are just kinda like half-gods sort of. I think they deserve almost-perfectness!!


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 10, 2002)

Pardon Me!! I did not mean all elves, but it is the elves that do think they are perfect that make a bad name.  You are a good elf. Most elves are worthy of a *almost perfection* title. But I do not know of one being that has NEVER made one mistake or another.


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## elvish-queen (Mar 10, 2002)

huh, gnashar, i was nice to you!! i take offence, i do!
orcs are NASTY, at least elves aren't NASTY!
oh, and, orcs, (and gollums and other slimy ugly creatures) have a lot more about them NOT to like, elves are beautiful and peace-loving. but many of them were proud, and it was their downfall, (eg feanor). that is the bad part of elves.

"DING DING" round one to the elves!
YAY, HOORAY, great cheering!!!


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## My_Precious (Mar 10, 2002)

Hey, maybe Gollum was a slimy ugly creature, but I like him anyways.
How would you look like after spending over 500 years in the cave, and having the ring drive you crazy every day? Bilbo started acting "Gollumish" after only 94 years.
I've spoken.


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Mar 10, 2002)

*Let's face it...*

elvish queen: If all the orcs, goblins and trolls of Middle-Earth suddenly joined forces together in one massive tide they would be all over the place like locusts. Elves are too busy hiding in their forests and only fight when they absolutely dont have a choice. That's pathetic...

Warlord Gnashar the Plague


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## FrodoFriek (Mar 10, 2002)

What r u all talkin about? elves rule. My best friends and adopted sister are both elves and they are just as in love with life, good food, and pipe-weed as us hobbits!!!


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## Tarien (Mar 10, 2002)

What do you not understand?
Do you not see the face of an Elf in battle against the orcs and understand it, you who were once of their kin.
We of the Eldar race feel great sadness for you, and all orcs, and do not hate you. Instead we hate and despise He who did this, twisted a fair and noble race to such a hideous mockery, all the more. (ia Morgoth! Ia valaraukar! Ia Sauron! Maeg! Maeg!)
We love the orcs as our kin, and pity what they have become. Yet if they are slain,might they return to their proper path? 

That is our hope.

P.S. Edhel ar!!!!


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 10, 2002)

Well spoken Tarien!! and Welcome!!


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## Grond (Mar 11, 2002)

I have a particular affinity for Elves. They are the greatest foes a person could want. And, besides, the make a spectacular SQUISH when my master uses me to strike one. (When they don't duck!)


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 11, 2002)

In a scale of 1-10 I give orcs an 11 for being the greatest villins in Tolkiens writings. After all you can't have a good story without a good villan.


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## chrysophalax (Mar 14, 2002)

Ah Tarien! The eloquence of your arguement might almost convince
me you possess a few drops of dragon blood in your veins(were that
possible).I might almost difficult to destroy one so persuasive...
Perhaps there is a particularly irritating cousin I could dispose
of for you?


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## UngattTrunn475 (Mar 15, 2002)

I half-agree with you, Gnasher. Sometimes Elves are a little too perfect, with their eye-sight, long life, and wiseness. But they can't help that, and generally they're nice beings. Also, they're not perfect. Galadriel was one of the most respected elves, and even she was possessed with the ring. So all in all, elves are good, but not perfect.


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## Grond (Mar 15, 2002)

It appears that many here have not yet read the Silmarillion. In it, the Elves are proven to be all too human. They succomb to the more manly sins of pride and ego all brought about by the deeds of Sauron's evil master Melkor. Many, many evils were done by the Elves in the name of good. Their problem was that they felt they could succeed in eliminating evil where the Vala had failed and were corrupted, and hence made evil themselves, in the process.


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## chrysophalax (Mar 15, 2002)

Hence Feanor and sons....


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## Anduril (Mar 15, 2002)

ok...there are some "dark" stories about elves...Helcaraxe...just for keeping the "comment line"...

But, in many cases, they were the teachers of the MANkind...
No one says that elves were perfect, but they had a lot of gits...


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## UngattTrunn475 (Mar 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *It appears that many here have not yet read the Silmarillion.*




I want to read it, but I can't find it at the library or bookstore. There seems to be less copies of that book.


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## FrodoFriek (Mar 17, 2002)

You could probably find a copy of the Sillmarion at Borders or Barnes and Nobles, if u know waht i'm talking about. ELVES RULE!!! yes, they are almost perfect, but not completely.


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## jks13 (Mar 18, 2002)

How can you not like a race that's "practiculy perfect in every way"?



I am quoting from Marry Poppins. Someone help.


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## Woo (Mar 19, 2002)

In conclusion the only true difference between elves and men is that men are mortal and elves are immortal.
All the races in Arda have the same good qualities and evil qualities as the other. 
There were evil dwarfs who did evil deeds e.g. Mim betrayed Turin (reguardsless that Turins crew killed his son, 2 wrongs dont make a right).
The dwarfs murdered King Thingol in his own kingdom.
Old man willow trying to murder the hobbits!
The Kin slaying by Feanor and his crew!
The Battle of un-numbered tears where there was huge betrayal by men.
The Valar helping to create a world but not effectivly aid its inhabitants, e.g. if they had interviened a lot of lives could have been saved. 
Imagine if Thingol had not been murdered would Melian then have stayed in M.E? 
Fingofin would not have had to fight Melkor!?
The list goes on on, also with the good deeds that were ahieved.


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## Anarchist (Mar 19, 2002)

I guess that every species has it's black sheep. I mean that there are a lot of persons of a species that noone is proud about. But I have to notice that elves have the fewest bad guys amongst them. But the evil they do harms too many people. What annoys me about them is that they think that they have no disadvantages and that they are perfect. Well guess again pal! the dwarves are the best!


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## Tarien (Mar 23, 2002)

Elves are not perfect, yes. But what of age. Does the infant not become wiser and better as a toddler, then a child, then an adult. Our seeming 'perfection' comes merely from old age. Think of Galadriel. She must have been many billions of years old in the War of the Ring. But no living thing can have perfection within the circles of the World That Is (Ea). But Elves will, of the races of Middle-Earth, be the most perfect because of their age. (Save the Valar and Mair).


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## UngattTrunn475 (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by FrodoFriek _
> *You could probably find a copy of the Sillmarion at Borders or Barnes and Nobles, if u know waht i'm talking about. ELVES RULE!!! yes, they are almost perfect, but not completely. *



The local bookstores got a shipment of Silmarillion books. I'm reading about the Eldar's arrival in Arda. Very interesting.


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## elvish-queen (Mar 24, 2002)

Where's Gnashar gone??? I suppose he decided he was out argued!!! Too many elf lovers for the poor little orc, tut tut tut...
Anyway, getting back to the argument, (not much opposision, but it's fun) elves are a PEACE LOVING race. note PEACE LOVING as the operative words. PEACE means calm and quiet and NOT WAR!! AS I said before, they were very proud, especially in the silm. (*was this because they were younger than they were in LOTR?? Just a thought!*)
Well, now that you are totally and utterly out-argued!!
 (elves might not like fighting, but they make darn fine debaters!!)


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## My_Precious (Mar 24, 2002)

> !! AS I said before, they were very proud, especially in the silm.


How about "The Hobbit"? Elves weren't so proud there, in fact, they were drunk, they passed out under the table, showed their greedy side, were teasing dwarves and Bilbo, and were highly unpolite???


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## Tarien (Mar 24, 2002)

Some Elves are better than others. And the Sindarin always were a little odd.


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## Elessar33 (Mar 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Branwen _
> *...and,some elves were pretty fond of beer(for example drunken Mirkwood elves in 'The Hobbit') *


not beer, elves prefer wine.


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## Elessar33 (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: Down with the Elves*



> _Originally posted by Gnashar_the_orc _
> *Let's face it, Elves are arrogant folk, who presume they are always right and who think they can tell everybody else what to do! Bah! *


no...in the fellowship, for example, legolas most often deferred to the leadership of aragorn. and the elves, by this period in time, had become reconciled to the fact that their way of life was dying and that their place in ME would be forgotten. The fact that they sent the ring out of Rivendell in the hands of a Hobbit is indication enough that they knew they were not strong enough or wise enough to solve the problem themselves.
I love the elves and what they represent. There is an appeal in something ancient and beautiful. I would love for my life to be a type of Rivendell...or laurelindorinan... a place where weary travellers can find rest and renewal, be surrounded by art and laughter and song and a bit of magic, be safe for the while from the evil pursuing...a haven. anyways, i guess it's sappy, but for me, to be elvish is to be overwhelmingly good.
in my opinion, this is stupid because wasn't the fellowship such a great picture of how the races and cultures of middle earth each possessed part of the answer?? the elves, the dwarves, the hobbits, the humans... the genius is in the interaction of their lives, strengths, weaknesses...this is what we can apply to the world today.


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## Tarien (Mar 25, 2002)

Total agreement, Ellesar23.


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## Maedhros (Mar 25, 2002)

Don't like elves. I'm Maedhros, Eldest son of Feanor. I battled fiercely against Morgoth, but i was forced by my oath to do terrible things. I let my pride get the best of me, but it can never be told that I gave up or gave up on my word.


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## eluRsevlE (Mar 26, 2002)

how can u think that way??? i'm insulted!!! being an elf myself, that burns!!!


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## chrysophalax (Mar 26, 2002)

Maedhros- you amy want to consider this Elf in your campaign
against me....!! aaaaaaaaaAHAHA!


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## Maedhros (Mar 29, 2002)

> to consider this Elf in your campaign


Do you really think. Is he really going to be around the forum long enough. I don't know. Is he tricksy?
Or are you saying that because he would taste deliciousssss!


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## chrysophalax (Mar 29, 2002)

You're onto me aren't you? That's bad when you can tell when I'm stalking new prey!!


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## Tarien (Mar 29, 2002)

Elves rule! 'nuff said! Maedhros, what's with you? The character in the Silmarilion wouldn't have said that! Answer this:
When bound to the cliff, and faced with a flying rescuer, did you plead him to slay you for release from torment, or because you thought you deserved it? Answer truely.


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## Maedhros (Mar 30, 2002)

I'm the character of the Silmarillion. I misspoke, what i really meant what that how could someone don't like elves, not the Don't live elves that i wrote.
Personally i like female elves better.



> Maedhros it was that sang amid his torment. But Fingon climbed to the foot of the precipice where his kinsman hung, and then could go no further; and he wept when he saw the cruel device of Morgoth. Maedhros therefore, being in anguish without hope, begged Fingon to shoot him with his bow; and Fingon strung an arrow, and bent his bow.


I begged my friend of old to shoot me, because of my anguish. At that time I had not stopped to think of all that i had done or will do. But for the great and the least, there will always be redemption.


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## Tarien (Apr 3, 2002)

I find myself nearly speechless. Almost. 
And you did have a point, as it was you who argued to _get_ the Silmarils, while your brother thought less evil would be done in the breaking of the oath. But who can tell the future? And the oath itself was prideful and rash, though Feanor began it.

But you are also right about redemption. Almost. Is Morgoth redeemable? Or Sauron? Or any of the Valaraukar? I doubt it. For the orcs? I hope, because what befell them was not their fault.


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## Taran (Apr 3, 2002)

The Race of Men are the best. Yes, they have their shortcomings, as do all the races of ME, but they have a sense of honor, valor and courage against Mordor. The Men stayed at Minas Tirith. Did the men run and hide in the forest, conveniently far away from the fighting? NO!


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## Maedhros (Apr 5, 2002)

> as it was you who argued to get the Silmarils, while your brother thought less evil would be done in the breaking of the oath.


I made a promise and i kept it till the end of my days.


> Is Morgoth redeemable?


I ask you, was he evil because of his free will or because Eru made him different than the other Valar.


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## Tarien (Apr 5, 2002)

He did choose to be evil, Maedhros. He was made no different. Melkor..is redemable, perhaps. But his thought and heart are too black to ever again be wholly white. In the void let him stay, and show his true heart in the End.


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## Maedhros (Apr 5, 2002)

O, but he had different thoughts than his brethren.


> But as the theme progressed, it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Ilúvatar, for he sought therein to increase the power and glory of the part assigned to himself. To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren. He had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that Ilúvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Ilúvatar. But being alone he had begun to conceive thoughts of his own unlike those of his brethren.


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## chrysophalax (Apr 6, 2002)

Therefore, of his own free will, wouldn't you say?


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## Maedhros (Apr 6, 2002)

Remember that Eru created him that way.


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## chrysophalax (Apr 6, 2002)

He created ALL that way.


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## Maedhros (Apr 6, 2002)

Then why was he different that everyone else. What was it that made him be more than he already was.


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## Dain Ironfoot (Apr 6, 2002)

yup!!!!!!


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## chrysophalax (Apr 7, 2002)

It was jealousy that made him WANT to become more than he was. A desire for approval in Iluvatar's eyes perhaps. If Iluvatar had sanctioned his song, what might Arda have been like?


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## Maedhros (Apr 7, 2002)

But why did he had such feelings?


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## chrysophalax (Apr 7, 2002)

He was created with a full set of feelings just as all of Iluvatar's beings. Just because he was a Vala did not put him above negative thoughts. He simply ( at first) wanted to show he was as capable of creation as Iluvatar and that concept wasn't very well recieved. This
lack of open-mindedness? on the part of his fellow Valar helped in his downward path.


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## Tarien (Apr 8, 2002)

He was simply too proud.


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