# The siege and fall of Minas Ithil: how was it possible?



## Gia (Feb 18, 2015)

Hello to you all !

As written in the title, I have a lot of questions about the siege and fall of Minas Ithil later re-called Minas Morgul. I try to figure how such a fortress could have fallen. The more I assume things, the more it brings new questions. What bothers me in Tolkien's writtings about this subject is that this event seems natural but how can it be concretely explained on the field?
So let's debate!

The context : the Witch-king of Angmar had fled the North after his defeat in 1975 TA against Glorfindel and Prince Earnil.
25 five years later, he lands siege to the sister fortress of Minas Anor with his 8 fellows Ringwraith. Obviously, they must have an army (or maybe 2, as I will developp this point after) with them.
1) First question : do we have any informations about the "identity" of this army and where it comes from? Orcs? Wicked men? Both? From Mordor? Remnants from Angmar? Both?...

So the siege starts. And this is a very important point according to me : the fortress holds. It does not fall within 3 days. It holds for more than 2 years (and I think it brings much more questions than an immediate fall).
Keep in mind the geographic situation of the fortress built in the middle of the Ash mountains. Eastern side: a small pass to Cirith Ungol and Mordor. Southern side seems 100% secure. Northern side: the hidden stairs and Shelob's lair. Wester side: Osgiliath not far away, Ithilien province still under control of Gondor, and the road to the Black Gate that goes North.

It is almost certain that the fortress was weakened previsous the siege because of many reasons. 2 above all: the Great Plague 4 centuries ago and the fact that the garrison was "quiet" by centuries of "peace" from Mordor. So it is clear that they were not prepare for an assault. But still, the fortress holds. So it means one thing: the garrison was not that weak and was able to repell the enemies (fairly assuming that the Nine launched at least one early attack).

So the siege begins. How is it organised? From the East and the pass of Cirith Ungol? It seems the most logical possibility because the sieging army would have all Mordor to supplie them. But then, Gondor reinforcements would easily come from near Osgiliath and then the siege would last for ever.
So maybe a second army, blocking the road from Osgiliath and supplied from the Black Gate? It seems plausible.
Or maybe only one army blocking the western side of the fortress, as the garrison would probably not dare to escape through Mordor? Seems plausible too.
So what do you think about the siege organisation of the Witch-King ?

But if no aid can come from Gondor, how the garrison could have held 2 years? (enough food and water for a garrison strong enough to hold 2 years againts a terrible siege does not appear very satisfactory).

Next interrogation is how Gondor could have "allowed" the lost of this fortress? I mean, their greatest city, Osgiliath was vulnerable and at sight. So they must/should have done everything in their power to conserve the citadel. 
Remember : Prince Earnil was able, 25 years ago, to defeat the With-King in Arnor with a only a part of Gondor army. Now he is King. Gondor has nothing to fear from another enemy. They must be entirely focused on the siege of Minas Ithil. And King Earnil hates the With-King. And this one is so close! Still, the fortress falls.
And I think the situation is much in favor of Gondor : either there is only one army from the East (then, unlimited supplies from Osgiliath to the fortress), either there are two armies (one from the East, the other blocking Ithilien: this second army should be easily crushed by the Gondor army able to crush Angmar army not so long ago, plus the Black army would be trapped between the Gondor army advancing from the West and the unbreakable walls of the fortress on the East), either there is only one and large army blocking the fortress on its Western side (still, there is a good opportunity for Gondor to smash it between the Anduin and the Ash Mountains).
I really cannot explain why Gondor seemed to have done so less for the fortress built by Isildur. I mean, they even give up a Palantir! Again, I would have understood better a crushing assault.

Other remaining questions: the rest of Middle Earth seems quiet. Of course, no help can come from the destroyed kingdoms of Arnor. But what about the other great powers? 25 years ago, Glorfindel fought alongside Prince Earnil, now King, and they defeated together Angmar. Well, you have now the 9 Ringwraith together leading the siege of the last stronghold on the Eastern shore of the Anduin, and no help at all? And Saruman? Gandalf? Anyone? (yes it drives me crazy thinking about all this!)

So how do you see this event? How do you explain it?


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## Starbrow (Feb 18, 2015)

Could Minas Ithil have been betrayed from the inside and this contributed to its fall?


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## Alcuin (Feb 19, 2015)

In Appendix A to _RotK_, Tolkien wrote,


> [T]he Witch-king escap[ed] from the North … to Mordor, and there gathered the other Ringwraiths… [In] 2000 that they issued from Mordor by the Pass of Cirith Ungol and laid siege to Minas Ithil. This they took in 2002, and captured the _palantír_ of the tower. They were not expelled while the Third Ago lasted; and Minas Ithil became a place of fear, and was renamed Minas Morgul. Many of the people that still remained in Ithilien deserted it.


 From this short (elided) paragraph we can gather several facts: 

The Witch-king went from his “defeat” north of Fornost – if it can be called that, since he annihilated what remained of Arnor, nearly wiping out its people and culture – to Mordor. 
The other Ringwraiths met him there. (Perhaps Sauron did, too.) This seems to have been the first time in the Third Age that all the Nazgûl openly acted together, in concert. 
The initial attack on Minas Ithil came “by the Pass of Cirith Ungol”. 
There followed a siege that lasted 2–3 years. 
 Elsewhere, Tolkien writes that during the reign of Atanatar II Alcarin, 1149-1226,


> Atanatar loved ease and did nothing to maintain the power that he had inherited, and his two sons were of like temper. The waning of Gondor had already begun before he died, and was doubtless observed by its enemies. The watch upon Mordor was neglected.”


By the time Minas Ithil was assaulted, it was probably not in its best shape to withstand either attack or siege. 

Treachery and betrayal are recurring themes in _LotR_. Saruman is an outstanding example. Several of Gondor’s outposts fell this way. 

The appendix tells us that in 1636,


> [A] deadly plague came … out of the East. The King [Telemnar] and all his children died, and great numbers of the people of Gondor, especially those that lived in Osgiliath. Then for weariness and fewness of men the watch on the borders of Mordor ceased and the fortresses that guarded the passes were unmanned. … Tarondor, his nephew, … succeeded him… He … []moved … to Minas Anor, for Osgiliath was now partly deserted, and began to fall into ruin.


 This set the stage for the undermanned and abandoned forts and garrisons that Sauron and the Ringwraiths later used to refortify Mordor. 
At the beginning of the chapter “The Black Gate Is Closed” in _TT_, Tolkien tells us about Narchost and Carchost, the Towers of the Teeth guarding the entrance to Cirth Gorgor and Mordor,


> [T]he strength of Gondor failed, and men slept, and for long years the towers stood empty. Then Sauron returned. Now the watch-towers, which had fallen into decay, were repaired, and filled with arms, and garrisoned with ceaseless vigilance.


That kind of sounds as if they were not taken until Sauron declared himself in 2951, but perhaps not. 
Durthang was an old Númenórean castle inside Mordor in the northwest corner where the road north from Cirith Ungol turned sharply east toward Carach Angren on the south end of Cirith Gorgor where it emptied into Gorgoroth. It had been transformed into an “orc-hold”. 
When Sam first beheld the Tower of Cirith Ungol in _RotK_, Tolkien wrote,


> [A]s with Narchost and Carchost, the Towers of the Teeth, so here too the vigilance had failed, and treachery had yielded up the Tower to the Lord of the Ringwraiths


Perhaps the Dúnedain simply thought Sauron’s minions weren’t coming home. Besides, they’d spilt much blood and wasted many lives on their civil war, as had their kinsmen in Arnor when that kingdom fractured. 
 If you recall, there was a “hogback”, or low ridge, near the mouth of Ithil Vale (later Morgul Vale), so the Nazgûl could use that to cut off escape and reinforcement near the mouth of the vale. The entrance to the Vale was not particularly wide, either: if they were able to man and fortify the north and south sides of the mouth of the valley, that could explain how they could hold off even a determined attack. If the besieged Dúnedain in Minas Ithil could not get out to help, or failed in an attempt to help, reinforcements from Osgiliath (which was already in ruins, remember), then an attack up the narrowing vale would be similar to the problem the French faced fighting Henry V at Agincourt: their superior forces were fighting uphill against an entrenched defense that could not effectively bring its numbers to bear. The same problem prevented the Persians from overwhelming the Greeks at Thermopylae: they had the greater numbers, but could not bring them to an effective front. 

Finally, the Nazgûl could walk right through the Dúnedain lines at night, not only killing and kidnapping sentries (for gruesome execution later followed by display to dishearten the Dúnedain), but also commanders. Plans laid down by Gondor near the front could not be kept absolutely secure since the Ringwraiths could wander about unseen to spy, reconnoiter, listen to commanders and troops, steal documents or other items, sabotage equipment, poison food and water, and generally cause mischief and mayhem. That must have made duty in Ithil Vale absolute misery, and very discouraging, too. Besides all that, their nearby presence frightened men and animals (Eärnur’s horse, for instance), and while the Dúnedain might be able to tolerate it for a while, they were susceptible to Black Breath, so much so that a thousand years later, Ioreth and the Herb Master still remembered the rhyme,


> _When the black breath blows
> and death’s shadow grows
> and all lights pass,
> come athelas! come athelas! Life to the dying​In the king’s hand lying!_



There does seem to be a theme underlying all this, however: The Lord of the Nazgûl may have not only been seeking to secure Minas Ithil, a critically important military outpost the fall of which shifted the balance of power along the southern Anduin. He was probably under orders to secure a _palantír_. Perhaps Sauron heard of them before the fall of Númenor, or in the War of the Last Alliance that followed. But after his return around 1050 (when “a shadow falls on Greenwood, and men begin to call it Mirkwood”), he would sooner or later discover they existed. The _palantíri_ provided the Dúnedain immense military and intelligence advantages, not to mention invaluable communication advantages: their discussions via _palantíri_ could not be intercepted. Most importantly, though, a _palantír_ would help him in his search for his One Ring. The Witch-king did not obtain either the Stone of Annúminas or the Stone of Amon Sûl; both of these were subsequently lost. He did, however, get his boss the Stone of Minas Ithil. So the fall of Minas Ithil, however it was achieved, was a real coup for Sauron.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Jul 27, 2020)

Gia said:


> Hello to you all !
> 
> As written in the title, I have a lot of questions about the siege and fall of Minas Ithil later re-called Minas Morgul. I try to figure how such a fortress could have fallen. The more I assume things, the more it brings new questions. What bothers me in Tolkien's writtings about this subject is that this event seems natural but how can it be concretely explained on the field?
> So let's debate!
> ...


Remember the the Wainriders and all kinds of Easterlings, even their personnel losses were horribly devastating, their economic's losses might not be similiarily heavy for the military conflicts didn't involve in their own territory. As an result, they could keep spamming armies no matter they're orcs, evil men or something else. In addition, the Simililarion has mentioned partial Ithilien has already been under Dark side control just as the Great Plague was done. So I'd tell you that the "identity" is absolutely unclear, yet it's appearance is reasonable. 




Gia said:


> So the siege starts. And this is a very important point according to me : the fortress holds. It does not fall within 3 days. It holds for more than 2 years (and I think it brings much more questions than an immediate fall).
> Keep in mind the geographic situation of the fortress built in the middle of the Ash mountains. Eastern side: a small pass to Cirith Ungol and Mordor. Southern side seems 100% secure. Northern side: the hidden stairs and Shelob's lair. Wester side: Osgiliath not far away, Ithilien province still under control of Gondor, and the road to the Black Gate that goes North.


Apart from @Alcuin 's answer about Cirith Ungol's fall. The northern or front seem not safe sodue to these reasons.
1. In the War of 1944 and fierce combat has taken places near this area under Minohtar's command, so we can assume that there might be Easterlings's intellectual agents get familiar enough with it
2. For the Gondor military has been devastated in the 1944 War, the Gondor's control here has weakened relatively.
3. The other transport lines have much more priority to deploy garrisons, and such shortcut is the most inconvenient for transport, causing it the most impossible way to get assaulted nor to hold.(This involves the latter answer about the Dark Side's tactic)




Gia said:


> It is almost certain that the fortress was weakened previsous the siege because of many reasons. 2 above all: the Great Plague 4 centuries ago and the fact that the garrison was "quiet" by centuries of "peace" from Mordor. So it is clear that they were not prepare for an assault. But still, the fortress holds. So it means one thing: the garrison was not that weak and was able to repell the enemies (fairly assuming that the Nine launched at least one early attack).
> 
> So the siege begins. How is it organised? From the East and the pass of Cirith Ungol? It seems the most logical possibility because the sieging army would have all Mordor to supplie them. But then, Gondor reinforcements would easily come from near Osgiliath and then the siege would last for ever.
> So maybe a second army, blocking the road from Osgiliath and supplied from the Black Gate? It seems plausible.
> ...


Apart from @Alcuin 's answer that the main force departed from Cirith Ungol, the Shelob's lair might got diversionary forces, or maybe reverse. So maybe the Dark side launched a surprising attack and control the Shelob's lair, gain the 1st hands, then isolate Minas-Ithil.



Gia said:


> But if no aid can come from Gondor, how the garrison could have held 2 years? (enough food and water for a garrison strong enough to hold 2 years againts a terrible siege does not appear very satisfactory).
> 
> Next interrogation is how Gondor could have "allowed" the lost of this fortress? I mean, their greatest city, Osgiliath was vulnerable and at sight. So they must/should have done everything in their power to conserve the citadel.
> Remember : Prince Earnil was able, 25 years ago, to defeat the With-King in Arnor with a only a part of Gondor army. Now he is King. Gondor has nothing to fear from another enemy. They must be entirely focused on the siege of Minas Ithil. And King Earnil hates the With-King. And this one is so close! Still, the fortress falls.
> ...


You can take the Battle of Verdun in WWI into a account, any tiny mistake was made in a big smash might make the Domino effect occurred, in spite of how much strength you putted.
We can make sure that Minas-Ithil was a meat grinder for both side cause no more massive military took places latterly, and maybe the Gondor command made some mistake in some important juncture, giving the Dark forces some luck to break the standoff, gaining a Pyrryhic victory.
In addition, we can also assume that such meat grinder must have involve a bunch of high commanders of both side, so maybe Prince Earnil might be crippled by his comrades's mistake.
The situation is much in favor of Gondor or not is controversial too. As replied before, a series of conflicts has diminished Gondor strength, and don't forget the Easterlings must have the superiority of "birth rate" XDD (After all, we all know the birth rate of Numenorains were as low as the elves)




Gia said:


> Other remaining questions: the rest of Middle Earth seems quiet. Of course, no help can come from the destroyed kingdoms of Arnor. But what about the other great powers? 25 years ago, Glorfindel fought alongside Prince Earnil, now King, and they defeated together Angmar. Well, you have now the 9 Ringwraith together leading the siege of the last stronghold on the Eastern shore of the Anduin, and no help at all? And Saruman? Gandalf? Anyone? (yes it drives me crazy thinking about all this!)
> 
> So how do you see this event? How do you explain it?



All Gondor alliance had their own stuff to carry. The elves had to handle Dol Guldur, and the Wizards were noticed not to take part in ME too much, and so on. Anyway, Sauron launched a "World War" level in fact, so each faction of the Free People had to fight on their own usually. And don't forget, all bad guys have superior "birth rate" to refresh losses and casualties XDDD



Starbrow said:


> Could Minas Ithil have been betrayed from the inside and this contributed to its fall?


I wonder if you're some commercial spy sneaked into Monolith Productions XDDDDD
You hit the correct answer 
Shadow of war answered us that Minas-Ithil is truly taken due to it's mole, Castamir,t the chief commander of it's garrisons


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