# Terry Pratchet's sideswipe at Tolkien



## Eledhwen

From Ananova:-

"Prize-winning Pratchett takes a swipe at Lord of the Rings 

Terry Pratchett has picked up the most prestigious award in children's literature.

He has won the Carnegie Medal for his book, The Amazing Maurice And His Educated Rodents.

But he could not resist a swipe at fellow fantasy author JRR Tolkien as he accepted the award.

Discussing his winning novel, Pratchett said: "Far more beguiling than the idea that evil can be destroyed by throwing a piece of expensive jewellery into a volcano is the possibility that evil can be defused by talking."

Has anyone anything to say to this overblown, self-important author who owes his entire genre to Tolkien? 

I have! Anyone who thinks evil can be defused by talking should know about pre-war British Prime Minister Anthony Eden's talks with Hitler. After talking with Eden, Hitler signed a little piece of paper saying he wouldn't do anything naughty. I rest my case.


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## Gamil Zirak

This is the first I've heard of this, but I sure would like to see this guy talk to evil and become friends.


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## Rúmil

Are you sure that's not Neville Chamberlain you're talking about? I thought Eden was rather intransigent towards Hitler... I could be wrong of course (of course!)
But anyway: pity the poor man who doesn't understand Tolkien. What's the good of saying anything? Tolkien's works stand for themselves. And if he got an award for CHILDREN's litterature, how can he speak of Tolkien? Lotr isn't children's litterature, last time I checked.


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## ¤-Elessar-¤

... wonder where this guy lives.... I figure a big enough group of us could cause some damage... whad'ya think? oooh oooh oooh, I know this combination of Chemicals that you can light with a magnesium fuse, and it can like burn through the hood of a car, the block, and the concrete beneith.... we could but the JRRT emblem into the hood of his car, or something else.... (I say we need to have 'evil grin' added to the smilies)


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## Gamil Zirak

That's a good idea Elessar. All the guy would do was try to talk to us and ask us to nicely stop.


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## ReadWryt

It's a shame that this man, who's major claim to fame is a repackaging of "The Pied Piper", feels the need to take a swipe at an author who, without the aid of Literary Awards or Instant Media Acclaim has succeeded in creating a book which consistently listed in the top ten most beloved books of the past millenium. His "Disk World" series is self admittedly a slight parody of the "Ringworld" idea first created by Larry Niven and the bulk of his work is in some way derivative of something someone else already spent a great deal of time and effort to create, and while I am in no way discounting the genius of Parody I feel that it is to good literature what Puns are to well crafted Jokes.

This man (I use that term with a great deal of generosity) has the gaul to so oversimplify the complexity and grandure of the plot of this tiny slice of an entire MYTHOLOGY that he gives the impression The Lord of the Rings was really about simply destroying a Magic Ring and in doing so fails to acknowlege the subtle and rich nature of the creation, power and corrupting energy of the object.

He is quite plainly an uincouth bafoon set on attempting to bolster his own stature by trying to tear down the reputation of a much more original work...which when combined with the fact that so much of his writings are derivative demonstrates that he has little or no respect for anything that is not written by Terry Pratchett...


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## Rúmil

Go ReadWryt! 
Simplifying Tolkien to that extent is like saying the Illiad was just another soap opera...


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## Rangerdave

Once again I find myself playing the Devil's advocate. Could it possibly be that Mr. Pratchett was in fact being silly. He does have a proclivity for doing that. He must have some respect for Tolkien's work, after all, he named one of the Principal characters in Good Omens "Pippin Galadriel Moonbeam". Now that is a nod if ever I saw one.

Is there a transcript or better yet a audio recording of this statement. It may just be a very dry attempt at wit.

Just my thoughts 
RD


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## Turgon

Ook?


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## Kementari

Go RW!
Err 
Thats like Metalica saying the Beatles sucked: where would they be without them??!!


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## Rúmil

Nah, if it's an attempt at wit he should be locked up: there is as limit to tastelessness!


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## Eledhwen

*Address of news item on T.Pratchett*

The Ananova news item where I found this information can be read on 

http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/?keywords=Books&menu=entertainment.books. 

The item following it (as at 16th July) is a testimony to the value of Tolkien's work - a huge price paid for a 1st Edn. The Hobbit.

I don't know if Pratchett's speech was recorded on AV. It would be easier to see how serious he was if we could see his face or hear the tone of his voice; but what he said was still out of order, joke or no.


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## Lorien

I agree with RD, the man *is* known to be a jokester, so it could just be a joke. But if it is a true attempt at swiping at Tolkien then the man should be slowly spit-roasted while being talked to about how good spit-roasting is for him. In either case Terry Pratchett is really only known for making parodies and jokes and with all due respect to him doesn't even belong on the same planet as Tolkein.

The Beatles with all due respect had nothing much to do with Metallica's music roots, so you really can't say anything. Granted that Hetfield is an idiot for thinking The Beatles sucked (I mean they're The Beatles people, you can't say anything bad about them, they're gods in their own right). If Hetfield next went ahead and insulted Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Diamondhead then he should be castrated and sent back to his mother's house to headbang in front of the mirror. If Led Zeppelin II hadn't been released he would have probably been listening to Wham! and George Michael.


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## Rúmil

I vote for Lorien to be Pratchett's official executionner.


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## ReadWryt

Saying that some author "sucks" is much different then claiming that the idea behind your own work is more "Beguiling" then an oversimplified rendition of the plot to another author's work...


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## Halasían

I never really cared for Pratchett as I only got a couple chapters into Shanarra. It just didnt grab my interest as did J.R.R. Tolkien. And it is pretty poor form to comment on other's works when winning an award anytime, not just in thi. case 

Oh Eden was post war Prime Minister, Chamberlain was Prime Minister until after the war started. His "peace in our time" appeasement of Hitler concerning parts of what is now the Czech Republic failed miserably.


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## ReadWryt

Actually, if I recall correctly, Terry BROOKS wrote that anyways Snowdog.

The thing is that this isn't the first time that Pratchet has shown such disrespect for Tolkien, and it doesn't stop with the professor either. He has been saying some fairly rude things about Rawlings and her Potter books as well.


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## Rangerdave

You know, it seems that our good Mr. Pratchett is trying to turn into a British Harlan Ellison. 

Ellison, in my opinion one of the greatest writers of short stories ever, has made a reputation on slamming inferior authors, particularly young authors. The difference is that the end result is that Ellison actually helps these writers to improve. One particular story that I find amusing involves screenwriter J. Michael Straczynski of Babylon 5 fame. Straczynski wrote to Ellison to ask for advice in getting his work published seeing as how nearly all his scripts had been rejected. Ellison wrote back and answered "Quit writing crap." The two have worked together several times since then to great success.

Perhaps Mr. Pratchett should give Harlan Ellison a call. I'm sure Harlan would have some good advice for him.

RD


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## ReadWryt

R.D.

At the EquiCon/FilmCon in 1978 in Los Angeles I saw Ellison holding forth in the lobby about how weak the youth of America were getting...8 or 9 guys walking across the lobby dropped their bags, walked straight over to where he was standing and dropped, gave him 40 pushups and walked away. It was about the only time I ever saw the man speechless...Heh. Yer right though, the guy is a pain in the butt, but a great writer. I especially liked his work for the L.A. Free Press when he wrote a collumn there that later was published as a book by the title of "The Glass Teat". Of course, he was really good as the "New A.I." for the station operating system on Bab5 too..."Stand up straight, you know your mother and I were talking abou....".


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## Lorien

Harlan Ellison is a much more smarter man than Pratchett will ever be. 'The Glass Teat' was one amazing read.
If Pratchett gets down to insulting Tolkien and Rowling he just shows he's stupid, I mean when did anyone really succeed in getting rid of evil by talking? Like Douglas Adams stated in his wonderful Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy series, "It is often underestimated how much trouble pointless talk can cause."
IMO, Pratchett should either be completely ignored or just plain be killed off.



> _Originally posted by Rumil_
> I vote for Lorien to be Pratchett's official executionner.



Gladly Rumil, bring out the man!!


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## ReadWryt

I'm not saying that the man needs to be killed! I just think that if he were hung by his heels and fed copious quanities of Ex-Lax it would go a long way towards punishing him properly for his indiscressions...


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## LadyGaladriel

> DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHERE THIS GUY LIVES BECAUSE I AM GOING TO KILL HIM



get a bit of reality. He was proberly only kidding and trying to cause a fuss


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## Darth Saruman

*Terry Pratchett disses Tolkien*

http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_627266.html?menu=


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## ¤-Elessar-¤

lol... RW, I like your Idea almost as much as mine.


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## indexerkevin

I have no clue who this dude is but he's wrong: evil is not destroyed by getting rid of the ring. 

It is only subdued for a time. Morgoth will eventually come back for the Dagor Dagorlach or whatever, and Sauron probably well before that. It never says he was never seen again, just never seen again in that age.... In the appendix under Eomer it says that his banner flew alongside the King's in many a battle in the East and South after the downfall of Sauron. Gandalf darkly hints several times that evil is stronger and can never be fully defeated, until the end of the world, at which point it's like "what's the point?". Maybe it's the inevitable consequence of free will.


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## DGoeij

Oh come on people. I've read dozens of Discworld novels and there's nothing the man doesn't ridicule. If you try and read the entire article, kindly posted by Darth Saruman:

http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_627266.html?menu=

you will see is making fun of the Fantasy Genre in general, technically ridiculing the current hype. His remark about the Gandalf action figure could open your eyes. 
As long as he ridicules statesmen, journalists, phylosophists or the human race entirely we're all happy, but when he jokes about Tolkien, he's supposed to be burned at the stake?
Get a life.


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## Eledhwen

It's been interesting to see the responses to this thread. It's a bit like when someone pokes fun at religion. Some people say "so what?" while others want the perpetrator shot at dawn for a week. 

Even so, being generally known as a rude and obnoxious person does not excuse the man, whoever he has insulted. (Maybe there are other websites full of rants about Pratchett's other comments.)


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## DGoeij

Actually I have met the man once, when he was signing his books at a fantasy convention in my country. He was making fun of the problems he had with writing down all typical Dutch names. Ridiculing again, not even close to insulting anyone. He didn't struck me as rude or obnoxious.
I find it disturbing that people openly cry out for the death of every person who critizises something they like. Being it PJ or Pratchett, if you really care for the work of J.R.R. Tolkien, maybe the words of Gandalf could mean something to you.



> Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.


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## ReadWryt

*I* never called for death...I just wanted to suspend him upsidedown and force him to ingest copious quanities of powerful laxative...*Shrug* Does that make me a bad person?

Usually when one is performing an act of Ridicule they don't do it in a manner that compares their own ideas with grossly oversimplified sumations of somebody else's ideas...No, this was obviously meant to mislead people about the nature of The Lord of the Rings, malicious or not, and that's just sad...


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## Beorn

*The problems with people today *headshake**

I find these words a bit naïve from one who wouldn't have made it big if it weren't for Tolkien himself. Although I've not read any of his works, from this statement, I gather that he comes up a bit short in the intelligence department. Assuming he's read tLotR, he didn't gather the underlying themes. Sure throwing the ring in destroyed evil, and stopped those darn Ringwraiths, but it also ruined Lothlorien. A sort of give and take thing....


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## DGoeij

I've only seen the 'sideswipe' we are currently speaking of, so it's hard for me to judge if he does these kinds of things on a regular basis. 
The current one still doesn't strike me as very insulting anyway. It sounds to me as rather ironic; You can destroy or defuse evil by simply tossing the jewelery in the volcano or talk to it.  The word swipe even comes from the reporter, I wish I had been there to hear and see the man saying it.
He makes jokes about the current hype in the fantasy genre, which apparently delivered him this prize too. HP and PJ (with a little help from a guy named Tolkien, does anybody remember him?) are making him rich, and it sounds like the knows it all too well.


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## Grond

I find Pratchett's comments to be very telling as to his intellect and would indicate that he hasn't ever really read or studied Tolkien. In illustration of this, I offer the following quote,


> _from The Return of the King, The Last Debate,_
> "...For into the midst of all these policies comes the Ring of Power, the foundation of Barad-dur, and the hope of Sauron. Concerning this thing, my lords, you now all know enough for the understanding of our plight, and of Sauron's. If he regains it, your valour is vain, and his victory will be swift and complete: so complete that none can foresee the end of it while this world lasts. If it is destroyed, then he will fall; and his fall will be so low that none can foresee his arising ever again. For he will lose the best part of the strength that was native to him in his beginning, and all that was made or begun with that power will crumble, and he will be maimed for ever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape. *And so a great evil of this world will be removed.Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary.* Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, *uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule..."*


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## Courtney

I think that everyone tries to make other peoples accomplisments seem smaller in order to make themselves feel more important. Lets just look at the facts... do you see Pratchet having a wonderful forum, like this one, supporting his works?


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## whispy elf

*um......*

Some works of art achieve a status that verges, or even spills right into, the ridiculous. Think of how many polls choose star wars as the best film ever. Of course when the "trashy" or low brow public choose a film like star wars then the obvious response is to put on your most po-faced sneer and take a high brow or "snobby" attitude, to laugh at the 'commoners' who sorely misunderstand what makes a good film. But what do you do when its the high brow people who are being ridiculous, as they are over such things as LOTR, shakespeare, The Beatles and even Radiohead. Great as all these things may be, they frequently gather praise thats unsuitable for any art that could possibly exist, from people who claim they know better. Perhaps the only possible way to satisfy your annoyance at this is to make public 'attacks' on these works. Maybe thats what Prattchets motives were. Maybe he was only joking. Maybe both. Furthermore, just because one work of art allowed yours to be made, does that mean you should respect it? Music was presumably invented by a man (or a woman) banging rocks together. Would u listen to it?


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## Eledhwen

*Hello Whispy Elf, welcome to the discussion*

I don't think many subscribers to this forum see themselves as high brow intellectuals (look at the speling!). Some of us are here because we love Tolkien's work - we have bought into the dream of Middle Earth and Valinor and the more we read, the more we see the great genius of the man who invented them. And then there's Terry Pratchett, using an award ceremony to trash it. It's like he attacked a member of the family. If you don't buy into Tolkien's work at this level, you won't understand. That said, as a general rule, your comments are true. Star Wars was fun, but didn't grab me the way LotR does, but for other people, it will be the other way round, and who am I to disagree with someone else's heart?


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## DGoeij

Welcome to the Forum Whispy Elf.

I don't know about Pratchett's motives, I wasn't even there, so I don't know how he said or even if he said it. It's rather funny how people can get worked up about something they like. You should see the stuff written about PJ here sometimes.  

But usually we are a friendly buch of Tolkien fans and I hope you'll like it here.


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## whispy elf

I in no way meant to imply that you were high brow intellectuals or to question the motives of this forum. And of course i understand, everyone understand, everyone knows what its like when someone else criticises art we really love. What i did mean though was that there are 'sacred cows' for most forms of art that are so revered its taboo to criticise (which in part explains the comment, after all dont troublemakers love to do what is taboo?) and seemingly impossible to better. Theres a school of thought that says that if you tell people a lie often enough they will believe it, even if they know at first that its not true. This is then, presumably, also true of opinions. Take Shakespeare as an example. Suppose i wrote a play. A really brilliant play. Really great. It would never be widely accepted as better than Shakespeare because Shakespeare is one of the aforementioned 'sacred cows'. I always find the temptation with Shakespeare is to say his work is utter sh*t simply because I find all the fawning, unending praise and ridiculous status his work gets disgusting. Except he's not sh*t, his work is really brilliant. Terry Pratchett doesnt write plays he writes fantasy books and maybe, just maybe, he feels that the sacred cow for that is LOTR (here I feel I must stress that I am NOT talking about you or this forum, which is a quite different matter. After all, all art, even the smallest local bands, have devoted fans who are really gripped by it). So in order to fight back against what he sees as a sheep mentallity amongst many readers in proclaiming that LOTR is ,say, the benchmark in fantasy literature, he makes a controversial statement, a not entirely unconstructive criticism or attack on it. And, if that is why, good for him. For though you've taken great offence at it, ive also seen at least one person on this forum go back and found a section of LOTR that he/she feels proves Mr Pratchett wrong. If a few of the people who just accept that on face value whats good and what isnt without actually thinking about it themselves did the same, they might discover a new depth or love for the book pr that this book they've always regarded so highly isnt all they thought it was. Either way it is an important discovery. I must point out that the chances are Pratchett just doesnt like Tolkien. Still since we cant know why he said it, how can we judge.

Finally, someone said something like, how can Pratchett dare to criticise Tolkien and other references were made to how Pratchett writes childrens books. Now this is terribly wrong headed. It would be far easier for an author like Pratchett to make a snipe at a less established author then someone as revered as Tolkien. Some people here said it was jealousy, which is possible, but it would make more sense for jealousy to fuel an attack on a current author who was still alive. For Pratchett, a 'mere' childrens author, to make a remark about Tolkien is, I feel, not an outrage, but a gutsy manoeuvre. That people still challenge other peoples preconceptions about the world is an important thing, and while you all obviously know and love LOTR well, there are perhaps many out there who revere not the books, but their reptutation.


Incidentally, I am a fan of neither author's work so I'm not defending Pratchetts remark out of any loyalty


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## Grond

ROFL!! The what on Earth are you doing on this forum if you are not a fan of JRRT's work??? Are you just here to stir the pot??? 

BTW, welcome to the forum!!!!

P. S. You know enough about forum setups to put * in your words so the meat of the meaning will get through. Please notice that the median age on our forum is about 15. We don't much like expletives and have software to edit it out. Going around that illustrates the esteem you hold for our younger members.


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## ReadWryt

> For Pratchett, a 'mere' childrens author, to make a remark about Tolkien is, I feel, not an outrage, but a gutsy manoeuvre.



Actually he has written a heck of a lot more then merely children's books...but the bulk of everything he has written is derivative of something that someone else wrote, so you see for me the fact that he is prone to making snide comments about other author's works is quite sad in that someone who has, time and again, proven incapable or un-desireing of creating something not based on ideas and concepts already explored by other writers means that he saw them at least good enough to make PROFIT from works he repeatedly badmouths...


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## DGoeij

> _Originally posted by ReadWryt _
> *
> Actually he has written a heck of a lot more then merely children's books...but the bulk of everything he has written is derivative of something that someone else wrote, so you see for me the fact that he is prone to making snide comments about other author's works is quite sad in that someone who has, time and again, proven incapable or un-desireing of creating something not based on ideas and concepts already explored by other writers means that he saw them at least good enough to make PROFIT from works he repeatedly badmouths... *



I guess your sense of humour is different than mine. I like the Discworld series. Actually I like them a lot. But if you do not like it, how come you have read so much about him?


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## DGoeij

So you 'hear' about authors and then you make these kinds of statements about them? I tend to read about them, preferably from them, if you forgive me the pun. I can have the feeling then, that the judgement I made was based on something.


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## Eledhwen

My older kids and their friends have all been Pratchett addicts. His stuff is good for the market he pitches at. It's popular and has made readers out of kids who might otherwise have only seen their fantasy world through a screen. Even so, I don't think his motives for taking a poke at Tolkien were as honourable as a noble desire to expose a sacred cow - I think he did it for the publicity - full stop. There can't be many Tolkien fans with internet access who haven't heard of him now; and I'm guilty there for starting this thread  .


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## DGoeij

LOL! Who was it that said that: 'It doesn't matter what they write about you, as long as they spell your name right?'

You shouldn't worry to much Eledhwen, you misspelled his last name.


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## Eledhwen

*Prattchet*

Tch! I usually check first as I can never remember how many 't's to put. Your quote is based on the premise that 'any publicity is good publicity' but with the caveat that a misspelt name means you're not important enough to bother checking. If Terri Prachitt reads this forum, I would like to offer him my unreserved apologies for my error.


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## DGoeij

He probably would have made a 'sideswipe' about it.


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## Tyaronumen

Any one of you would have the devil's time of it trying to convince me that Terry Pratchett was trying to insult or belittle J.R.R. Tolkien in any way.

Actually, Terry Pratchett tells a lot of jokes, and his books (well, the 10 or so that I've read) are based in humor, and intended to make one laugh.

So when I read Pratchett saying something like the quote at the beginning of this thread, I have to wonder why it is that you take him so seriously?

Obviously, to me anyhow, Pratchett is making fun of the notion that talking to evil to defuse it is valid . . . by equating it to the silly-sounding notion that throwing a piece of jewelry into a volcano will dispel evil.

Does that mean that J.R.R. Tolkien's LOTR is ridiculous because throwing the Ring into a volcano will dispel evil? No -- because the plot is far more involved and complex than that. But if you can't admit that it does at least *SOUND* a bit silly when it is worded as Pratchett did, then that *may* be a sign that you take Tolkien (and/or Pratchett) a bit too seriously...


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## Eledhwen

Maybe you're right, but I've never liked jokes that rely on the belittling of others and their achievements.


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## Tyaronumen

> _Originally posted by Eledhwen _
> *Maybe you're right, but I've never liked jokes that rely on the belittling of others and their achievements. *



Well neither do I, Eledwhen! But I don't see any belittlement of Tolkien, nor his stories, in this quote:



> Discussing his winning novel, Pratchett said: "Far more beguiling than the idea that evil can be destroyed by throwing a piece of expensive jewellery into a volcano is the possibility that evil can be defused by talking."



I really don't! Honestly, I think that Pratchett is being self-deprecating while having a bit of fun as well...

I really don't see this quote as belittling Tolkien or his achievements... I am a biiiiig Tolkien fan, and I really appreciate his works as more than just fiction, or art, etc., so I can appreciate where you are coming from, I just don't think that Pratchett was trying to insult Tolkien! 

I would imagine that if we could hear a clip of Pratchett delivering that line, the actual vocal inflection of the line would make it clear that it was a purely harmless comment, and not intended at all to insult Tolkien.

As another poster pointed out, it was the journalist who wrote the article, who decided to identify Pratchett's light-hearted comment as a 'swipe'...

I guess I just don't think that Pratchett takes Tolkien, Discworld, or himself all that seriously...!

YMMV, friends!


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## Eledhwen

I accept what you're saying. I think I also asked. early in the thread, if anyone knew whether the speech had been recorded on AV as well, so we could appreciate Pratchett's tone and expression.


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## Tyaronumen

Actually, it would be quite funny if I were entirely wrong, and we could find an audio/visual clip of Pratchett sarcastically, sneeringly stating his line with a leer of ungrateful, lame, rip-off artist greed...


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## Wolfshead

I really don't see how you can manage to take offence at such a comment. I know for a fact that Terry Pratchett is a Tolkien fan. That though, would be obvious, seeing as he writes fantasy and Tolkien made that genre.

If you try reading any of his 26 Discworld novels you will be amazed at how unbelievably funny they are. I've read all except 7 to date and they are all great. Every book he releases goes straight to the top of the best sellers list and there always seems to be a Pratchett book there.

Anyone that knows the way Pratchett writes will easily be able to tell his comment about the jewellry was a joke. Nothing is serious with him, and the public like people to be funny in speeches rather than droning on about how they'd like to thank everyone and his brother. I'm sure he has the utmost respect for Tolkien and you can also be sure that he can see beyond the basic plot of LOTR. The man's a literary genius!

And as for being a childrens author, yes, he has written a few childrens books. But not many. They are also very funny but in a way that would appeal to kids, naturally. Generally, he's far too busy with Discworld to write other books.

And to finish. Go and read _The Truth_ by Terry Pratchett, probably his funniest, if you want. Please don't criticise authors until you actually know about them. And most importantly, lighten up!


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## Rangerdave

Amen. 

Dispite most of his works are comedic adaptions of prior legends, his colaberation *Good Omens* with Neil Gaim is one of the funniest things I have even read.

RD


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## whispy elf

*Gaiman*

Gaiman's better than Pratchett. Read American Gods or Sandman for that matter. Easily one of the best authors alive


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## mr underhill

amazing maurice is a brilliant book dont diss!!!

Its cool to see rats with names like dangerous beans and peaches


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## Fimbrethil

> Gaiman's better than Pratchett. Read American Gods or Sandman for that matter. Easily one of the best authors alive



Uh? Better? I think incomparable would be a better word. Can you compare Shakespeare and Tolkien? No, you can't, they have their own styles. Gaiman always strikes me as a much more serious man, but I do love his stuff. Pratchett just takes the silly end of the book  I read him when I feel that I am taking life to seriously.

As for the remark about Tolkien, I guess that those who think he is being petty minded just don't get/know Pratchett. Just the same way they don't think HE knows/gets Tolkien. 


I'm still in love with his Tee-total Vampire idea  The faintly ridiculous is a wonderful things.


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## e.Blackstar

I have read all but four or five of pratchett's books, and they are sooooo good! HILARIOUS!!!!! Anyway...I think that he was probably just making a joke..I mean, that's a satirist's job, right?


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## Beleg

> That though, would be obvious, seeing as he writes fantasy and Tolkien made that genre.



Not all fantasy writers are Tolkien fans; China Mieville, Terry Goodkind... 
And 'Tolkien made fantasy genre' is one of the biggest misconceptions of fantasy, not to mention belittling the efforts of people like Lord Dunsnay, E. R. Eddison, Mervyn Peake, Edgar Rice B, William Hope Hodgson et al. 

Even though Pratchett has a huge fan fallowing, I'd take Gaiman over him any given day; Gaiman is a truly excellent author.


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## Barliman Butterbur

Tolkien-bashing is a time-honored pastime among the more petty of those who fancy themselves writers. A full exposition of it is in the last chapter of _J.R.R. Tokien: Author of the Century_ by Tom Shippey. And Pratchet isn't the only one, see http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?p=433397#post433397/. What's interesting is that suddenly there are _two_ authors of _children's books_ (see link) who have taken recent accolades and who are sniping at Professor T. Is there something about the nature of those who write for children...

Barley


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## DGoeij

Wow, this thread's still running?

Barliman, I think you're not aware that the bulk of stories produced by Pratchett is not that easily accesible to children. Apart from sideswipes at Tolkien, his many Discworld stories preceding the tale of Maurice and His Educated Rodents (and more recently Wee-Free Men) are filled with sideswipes at religion, atheists, philosophers, ignorant followers, scientists and what not. The man is a modern jester and we need far more of those. A lot less people who look at a statement and start foaming at the mouth is something this world really needs, not the opposite.


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## Barliman Butterbur

DGoeij said:


> ...Barliman, I think you're not aware that the bulk of stories produced by Pratchett is not that easily accesible to children. Apart from sideswipes at Tolkien, his many Discworld stories preceding the tale of Maurice and His Educated Rodents (and more recently Wee-Free Men) are filled with sideswipes at religion, atheists, philosophers, ignorant followers, scientists and what not. The man is a modern jester and we need far more of those. A lot less people who look at a statement and start foaming at the mouth is something this world really needs, not the opposite.



You're right: my knowledge of this author extends ONLY to the opening thread, which I had no reason to doubt. If he is as you describe, he sounds like my kinda guy!

Barley


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## DGoeij

His stories aren't as epic or grand as Tolkien's, but if you fancy humour and satire in a fantasy setting, I strongly advise the Discworld series to you.  He has written more than that, but I haven't read any of it as of yet.


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## e.Blackstar

> he sounds like my kinda guy!



It rather seems as though he would be...you should read some of his Ankh-Morpork novels.


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## Wolfshead

I've just re-read this thread for the first time since I posted in it in 2002 and the complete lack of understanding of Pratchett, and the Tolkien-based fanatiscism is actually quite frightening


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## e.Blackstar

My thoughts exactly.


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## baragund

Good insight, Wolfshead. Just because us denizens of this forum happen to love Tolkien's works doesn't mean _everybody_ has to love them. And that's assuming Pratchet was _not_ kidding when he made his remarks. Everyone has their own tastes and reasonable people can respectfully disagree on what they like and don't like in literature. 

After reading this thread, I am now interested in checking out Pratchet's Discworld books and seeing what they are all about.


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## Wolfshead

baragund said:


> Good insight, Wolfshead. Just because us denizens of this forum happen to love Tolkien's works doesn't mean _everybody_ has to love them. And that's assuming Pratchet was _not_ kidding when he made his remarks. Everyone has their own tastes and reasonable people can respectfully disagree on what they like and don't like in literature.


But just as I've mentioned previously, Pratchett _is_ a Tolkien fan. His comment would have been firmly tongue-in-cheek. I saw him praising Tolkien in a documentary once.



baragund said:


> After reading this thread, I am now interested in checking out Pratchet's Discworld books and seeing what they are all about.


You should. There's about 30 of them now I believe (and that's just the ones written for adults!). It doesn't really matter that much where you start, but I would recommend _Guards! Guards!_ - it's the first one to feature the City Watch.


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## baragund

_30 books!!_ Gulp! 

I assume (I should say _hope_) one would consume these like popcorn. I'll look for them at the library.


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## e.Blackstar

Yes, it's a lot of books. As you say though, they're good enough to consume in a day or so.


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