# I wish I knew what I really think of MY writing



## HLGStrider

I am generally more critical of other peoples' writing than I am of my own.

No, this isn't a confession, it is a general statement of fact. I have many, many, many, many times gone over other people's work with a fine tooth comb. I used to edit a newsletter for my homeschool group, and I was a pretty thorough editor. If you ask me to edit your work today, I will slash it with the red-pencil. I do it nicely, but I do it. 

However, with my own work, after two read throughs, after the initial typo's and obvious "This doesn't work" things, I have a hard time revising. I don't like editing my own work. I wrote it that way for a reason, because I like it that way, and if I had wanted it to be another way, I would have written it that way. 

I generally think what I have written is the best it can be for at least a year after I have written it. After a year I gain some distance from the work and can edit it, but it takes forever, and even then I have a hard time seeing past why this works for me and might not work for other readers. I mean, sure I like spending a page on this discription because I like this discription, but would a reader like this discription? Would a publisher like this discription? If I hadn't written it and weren't so impressed with myself, would I like it? 

I wish I could wipe out my memory of having written something and read it as if I were a stranger, without the baggage of this being "my baby." 

And I wonder, what would I really think of it if I did? 

What do you think of your writing now?


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## e.Blackstar

I know how that goes...I too wish I could just sweep away all sentimentalities and READ. Plus the worse thing is that I know what I mean, so its hard to find something that wouldn't make sense...


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## Elorendil

I'm really good at catchign my typos and such. But, like blackstar, I often have a hard time expressing what I really mean. If I edit something fifty-million times, it will eventually come out right. But, especially with RPs, I don't have time to edit that much. That would be where Mir comes in. We routinely read eachothers' posts and give feedback/suggestions. The really great thing is that when one of us knows what we're trying to say but can't quite say it, the other knows it to, but can find the way to express it.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie

I am exactly the same as Elgee, to the point that I have now realized and accepted that none of my work will ever be publishable, and have given up writing entirely for the past month or so, but mostly for an entirely different personal reason, if it weren't for that I'd still do it some just because I used to get so much pleasure from it.

I am _waaaayyy_ too wordy, and go on forever describing what are once you strip away all the incredibly boring and unnecessary verbiage relitively mundane things, but I can never think of any other way of putting it that doesn't have a slightly _wrong_ connotation for the feel I was going for; anything that would simplify it immediately takes it out of my main character's perception and plops it into the post-modern world of today, but no one else could possibly slog through things as they stand now.

I also constantly edit as I'm writing though, until I've found the perfect word that I just could never quite come up with, and spend more time re-reading what I have than writing new stuff, so I'm different in that way. That's the one way sometimes I get a vaguely reasonable passage, I finally find that one word that says what I otherwise needed five and a half weird prepositional phrases for. Okay, that's a slight exaggeration, but y'all know what I mean. It also means that my stories never really get anywhere, I've been writing...practically speaking for seven years now, though of course I did all sorts of little things before then for school assignments or whatever. In all that time I have not finished even _one_ story...well, I have the first draft of the second story I ever thought of, which is the first one I did anything much about writing. It went off on too many weird tangents, and I didn't like the ending I found I had written at all; it didn't fit the characters established back at the _beginning_ of the story at all, and they were much better in their original form. I guess that's one reason I've developed this tendency to take it so very slow now, to make sure whatever I'm doing is still going to be consistent. I shudder to think what would happen to me if I ever had to meet a publisher's deadline....whoo boy, I'd be a mess.


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## Hammersmith

Hobbit-GalRosie said:


> I have now realized and accepted that none of my work will ever be publishable, and have given up writing entirely for the past month or so


Argh, no! Can any claim be sadder? Never give up! Whether you think your work is publishable or not, keep working! I promise that you will look back on work you wrote and be stunned by your visible progress in writing. Only by constantly working, constantly improving vocabulary, cohesive skills and descriptive abilities can you become a better writer, and as painful as it may sometimes seem to look critically on your own work, it will improve!


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## HLGStrider

All you really need is a vicious, red penciling, copy-editor, HG. 


The creature that makes the paper bleed red ink with his merciless cuts!

You'll hate him, but he's like shots. They are usually good for you. 

I do read my own writing a lot, but I don't make a lot of changes as I do.


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## Zale

I'm surprised I haven't posted in here before. Right:

When I saw the title the first thing I thought was "If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have written it that way", and this holds true most of the time. Sometimes I'll substitute words if I decide a certain simile sounds better, or if I've repeated myself; but I almost never change the content of sections unless it turns out to be completely irrelevant, contradictory to something harder to change, or incredibly badly written.

I do get the feel that my narrative style is slightly pompous and definitely circumlocutory, but if I were to write in any other way, it would read as if forced, and it would take me ages (I've tried). On the other hand, people here seem to like it, so it can't be all that bad. 

I think the main point of an editor is that they can distinguish where what you think is good diverges from what the general public will think is good. Thus making it not only supposedly better, but also more commercially viable. I can tell what my narrative style sounds like, but I don't have much idea what other people will think of plotlines, or characters, or settings. I think this is partly because I haven't had much practise at this, so I refuse to believe I'm that good at it yet. That's where this forum comes in useful: it's full of impartial (hopefully) editors, some harsh and some less so. It gives me a bit of a feel for how ludicrous (or not) something is turning out to be.

To summarise: I don't really know. That was a lot of help, wasn't it?


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## Hobbit-GalRosie

Lol, Zale, considering the title of this thread and some of the other responses we've had you're hardly alone in not knowing what to think.

All right, y'all seemed to have missed the vital part of my post. I have other reasons, far too personal to state here, keeping me from writing. Besides which, I simply do not have the time it takes me what with my crazy method, and I confess that now the sort of stuff I create actually frightens me...not because I write things that are supposed to be scary, just because it's somehow so subtly _wrong_--it's like a character on a mystery TV show that seems so friendly, and so very-nearly-but-not-quite normal, so you get the feeling they might really be a murderous madman/woman. Scary.

And I have not yet gained any objectivity whatsoever from my seven years of brutally mangling creative ideas, I could never _*EVER*_ trust one of my precious, deformed babies to an editor, no matter how much good it would do the god-forsaken creature in the end, because it would no longer be mine, and it couldn't possibly say what it wanted to say in the beginning. It just wouldn't happen. I am sick to death of hating myself--and no, hate is not too strong a word, even in its most literal sense--for being the stereo-typical angry-little-recluse writer-type, so I've decided it'll be healthier for someone of my temperment just to give it up and do something more normal with my rapidly dwindling spare time, at least for a while, until I can make a little more sense of myself. I think my talent, and I must recognize I have _some_, is really going to need a rest at this point or it's just going to fizzle out from exhaustion and trying to use itself in ways it just doesn't know how to and wasn't meant to and isn't comfortable with.

But as I've tried to say before, there are others reasons that make it impossible for me to continue writing at this time from a purely practical standpoint. If it weren't for that I'd keep at it, hatred or not, just because I love the act of creation even when I hate myself. But really, objectively speaking, it's perhaps better that I am prevented, I don't think I could handle much more of what I've been doing to myself. And even less could I handle one of my all ready misshapen children being slashed at until she bled red ink. I shudder at the thought.

Oh gosh, that last part probably sounded really condescending, I'm sorry, didn't mean it that way. But I'm not going to delete it because I expect this is a subject about which it's better to be brutally honest, and that's just the way I am, and try though I might I've been unable to change it; the few times I came close I got burned. Yes, a few times I nearly managed to convince myself to come out of my writerly shell, and then always I was shoved back in by forces outside of my control. Come to think of it, that may have really been the hand of providence rather than a set-back in my life, because I am clearly not at all suited to being a writer.

And Elgee, I think perhaps if I had an editor like--well, like you I guess, the way you say you are with other folks' material--I might well manage to swill out the occasional publishable novel, but I would hate it, and it would only be mediocre compared to almost any half-way decent author you could name (I do not mean Tolkien or anyone approaching his level of genius, I just mean your run-of-the-mill okay but ordinary type author); Anyway, I really don't think the world needs any more of that kind of clutter. And, please don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate what you said, and like I said, you're probably right, so I'm not trying to say anything against you, I just wanted to make the point that I'm pretty much hopeless: one of those bitter, idiotic fools who can never see the larger picture unless it's all I focus on period, so no matter what you say I'll be bound to have some cynical arguement why it wouldn't work, and even cute little analogies about shots are literally painful for me, and gosh do I _need_ a good shot of _objectivity_ right now.

And now you can tell me that the above was one the worst examples of a run-on sentence that you've ever seen, lol.      

Anyway, I'll save us all some time and exasperation and shut up right now before I make matters any worse or offend someone, which I probably all ready have, so I'm sorry, like I said before that's not my intent. I'll let this poor misused thread get back to its purpose and not interfere with it any longer, no matter how tempting it may be.


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## Hammersmith

Hobbit Gal, I can respect what you've said, but it still makes me sad when people with talent give up doing something that they can do well. Maybe try writing something different, as a change if you feel that novels or normal writing is driving you away from the art? Poetry, songwriting, articles, stories aimed at a totally different audience...new genres, anything. It can definitely help to take a break from the norm and try something fresh, and you may find that it launches you anew.

For myself (realising that I haven't answered a question that deserves thought), I constantly question my writing. I often find myself feeling good about it, admiring my own talent, and then think "There are many great writers out there. Why should you be special? Why should anyone appreciate your work?"

It's a horrid thought to have, and I tend to just ignore it. If I'm right with such thoughts and I am destined for mediocrity, there's no reason why I should let that get in the way of the sheer joy I derive from writing, or the happiness that other people feel reading my work. I've come to the conclusion that if one person appreciates my work, I have succeeded. If nobody appreciates it, but I feel accomplishment, I have also succeeded. I understand that I now sound like a leftover hippy, but I don't particularly mind. It's a helpful mindset to have, even if I don't fully believe it all the time.

Oh, and as far as editing goes, deleting a single word often feels like selling one of my children. I hate it as a necessary evil. I've worked as an editor before, and I find myself agonising over phrases that need to be deleted for the good of the piece, and imagining the writer's face when I tell them. Editing's hard work, even when it's for somebody else. I don't like it and I never shall. In fact, when I edit out large chunks (ie: more than a sentence) I usually copy and paste it into a separate "notes" document. There I can read over lost paragraphs and dead storylines, long into the night....


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## e.Blackstar

I do that same thing, Hammersmith. If I have to delete something big  (especially if I think it's wondefully clever  but it just doesn't fit) I'll paste it elsewhere and possibly use some of it (modified to fit, of course) on another story...or, like you, just call it up late at night and mull...


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## Hobbit-GalRosie

Wow, I didn't imagine there would be two other people like that in the world.

Okay, I'm going to keep this short in honor of my previous vow not to monopolize this thread, but just so y'all know I have officially taken up the pen again, much to my surprise, as one of the larger practical obsticles has suddenly been removed, and I had something of an epiphany due to my time away from the craft and Hammersmith's post and a conversation with a friend...I've decided that from now on I write only for my own pleasure, and will worry about whether or not it's publishable or in any degree enjoyable by others when I come to the point that it's complete enough that it _could_ be read or published, instead of trying to cross that bridge before I come to it. If ever again writing should cease to be the kind of fun it should be I'll go on hiatus again until I want to continue...just for me, nothing else. It's gonna be the sort of thing where I can only write for short whiles whenever I can grab the time, but perhaps that's for the best. Come to that, I haven't been on here as much lately, and I think that's going to continue dwindling as well; most likely only get on once or twice a week at the absolute most, but we'll see, I've just re-learned the lesson of never saying never.

And a quick shout out to everyone on TTF, especially HLGStrdier, Hammersmith, Zale, e.Blackstar, Lonna, and that dwarf fellow Ghorim, for being a continuous inspiration.


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## Kelonus

HLGStrider said:


> I am generally more critical of other peoples' writing than I am of my own.
> 
> No, this isn't a confession, it is a general statement of fact. I have many, many, many, many times gone over other people's work with a fine tooth comb. I used to edit a newsletter for my homeschool group, and I was a pretty thorough editor. If you ask me to edit your work today, I will slash it with the red-pencil. I do it nicely, but I do it.
> 
> However, with my own work, after two read throughs, after the initial typo's and obvious "This doesn't work" things, I have a hard time revising. I don't like editing my own work. I wrote it that way for a reason, because I like it that way, and if I had wanted it to be another way, I would have written it that way.
> 
> I generally think what I have written is the best it can be for at least a year after I have written it. After a year I gain some distance from the work and can edit it, but it takes forever, and even then I have a hard time seeing past why this works for me and might not work for other readers. I mean, sure I like spending a page on this discription because I like this discription, but would a reader like this discription? Would a publisher like this discription? If I hadn't written it and weren't so impressed with myself, would I like it?
> 
> I wish I could wipe out my memory of having written something and read it as if I were a stranger, without the baggage of this being "my baby."
> 
> And I wonder, what would I really think of it if I did?
> 
> What do you think of your writing now?



I'm the same way. I may not be a good enough editor however, but yes, for my own work, I don't like going back and forth over my work, though I do, but it's harder than viewing others.


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## Zale

Hobbit-GalRosie said:


> I've decided that from now on I write only for my own pleasure, and will worry about whether or not it's publishable or in any degree enjoyable by others when I come to the point that it's complete enough that it _could_ be read or published



This is the only way to write, as far as I'm concerned. I think in the entire world only my brother has read more than two or three pieces of my work; I write purely for the pleasure of doing so and because I can, not because I hope to make money by it.



> And a quick shout out to everyone on TTF, especially HLGStrdier, Hammersmith, Zale, e.Blackstar, Lonna, and that dwarf fellow Ghorim, for being a continuous inspiration.



Cheers. *Raises pint*


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## HLGStrider

I want to be read desperately, however. There is some freedom in just writing what you want, but there is a joy in someone else liking what you've written that surpasses so many other thrills.


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## Hammersmith

Hobbit-GalRosie said:


> And a quick shout out to everyone on TTF, especially HLGStrdier, Hammersmith, Zale, e.Blackstar, Lonna, and that dwarf fellow Ghorim, for being a continuous inspiration.


I'm thrilled to be of help, and my reward is that you'll keep writing.  



HLGStrider said:


> I want to be read desperately, however. There is some freedom in just writing what you want, but there is a joy in someone else liking what you've written that surpasses so many other thrills.


Do I ever know what that feels like!! In my experience, if you write enough for your own pleasure, you will grow exponentially in your skills, to the point where your writing talents won't be forced on prospective readers, but you'll have to stave people off with a stick to keep your projects private until completion!


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## e.Blackstar

> And a quick shout out to everyone on TTF, especially HLGStrdier, Hammersmith, Zale, *e.Blackstar*, Lonna, and that dwarf fellow Ghorim, for being a continuous inspiration.



Weeeee! *feels flattered*


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## Lomin...

*grumbles* I had most of a post written up and I accidently closed the window. *grumbles again* Thus, I might put some things a little tersely this time through...

When I'm writing I very often find that a sentence or even whole paragraph that makes perfect sense to me then when someone else reads it it make no sense at all. It that knowing where one's self is coming from thing...

Anyway, Hobbit-GalRosie has been a very gracious editor-person-thing for my little book. (Thank you!) There've been some rather obvious and stuid mistakes that I've made in my book, and I'm more than willing to change those. I'm just glad she isn't REALLY my editor, because I don't always agree %100 percent with what she thinks, and I refuse to change anything I don't agree with. I guess she's really more of a proof reader, actually.

I guess I'll wrap-up by saying that I try not to write anything that I think would ever need to be changed, so that I don't need to later (it doesn't always work). Also if I like something in my story, it stays--period. I think I'm fairly objective about what's good and what's bad in my story. I think I might even be harder on my own work than other peoples. I've only written part pf one story, though, and only a couple half finished tales from other non-professional readers. *shurgs*

That's my 2 cents for what they're worth.

-Jim


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