# Where's Radagast?  Anyone?



## Aredhel (Dec 17, 2001)

*What do you think happened to Radagast the Brown?*

What do you think happened to Radagast the Brown after the events of the Lord of the Rings?


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## Mr. Underhill (Dec 17, 2001)

In Unfinished Tales it says ... "For Radagast ... became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-Earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures." Apparently he did not remain faithful to his task, although in a much different way than Saruman, and I doubt if he returned across the sea to Valinor. I see him remaining in Middle-Earth, not necessarily just in Rhosgobel, but "fading away" until his entity perhaps became a part of the forests and creatures he was so fond of.


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## Aredhel (Dec 17, 2001)

I would have to agree with you on that point. As I was reading your reply, I seem to have remembered that about Radagast. Though it seems sad that he became an entity, among the birds and the beasts that he loved so much. I think there should be more written about Radagast. Is there?


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## Mr. Underhill (Dec 17, 2001)

Other than "Unfinished Tales" I think he's discussed (along with the other Istari) in the "Silmarillion" and "The Treason of Isengard." But as far as I know not much more is really mentioned concerning his actions or fate. Maybe someone else knows more ... ?


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## Grond (Dec 17, 2001)

I am anxiously awaiting Christmas in hopes that the Deluxe leather bound editions of The Histories of Middle Earth are under the tree. My wife promised she woudl try and get them but this special edition appears to only be available in Britain and cost about $150 each. So, I anxiously await next Tuesday.... so I'll be able to answer questions such as this one with more authoratative input. I'll get back to you on Wednesday.


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## Cian (Dec 18, 2001)

There's an interesting spot of alliterative verse in UT (_The Istari_) which goes in part:

"Wilt thou learn the lore that was long secret
of the five that came from a far country?
Only one returned. Others never again ..."

This might (mythologically) bear on Radagasts' staying in Middle-earth.


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## Lantarion (Dec 18, 2001)

Yes, it seems logical, as Gandalf was the only one of the Istari (that I know of, not counting the Blue) who returned to Valinor..
I've noticed, and I'm sure this is total coincidence because the LotR as a religious parable has been discussed, and Tolkien did not write in allegory. BUT: the three Wizards who were mentioned in the LotR are each to his own colour: White, Gray and Brown. In the Bible three wise men (ie. "Wise-ards"  ) journey to find JC, and they too had their own colours; but they were different colours (Black, Brown and White). It just crossed my mind..


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## Pinto Gamgee (Jan 23, 2002)

Hi folks I'm a newbie here and I wanted to pose this question to someone who may know: What ever happened to Radagast? Mentioned only briefly in the LoTR series he just seems to up and split after doing very little at all aside from inadvertadly sending Gandalf into Saruman's web.

So, did he just up and disappear? I looked over the boards hoping to find such a discussion but found none after a short parusing. Has anyone thought of the possibility that he actually plays a much bigger role in the story than told by Tolkien on the surface?

And, if indeed the Istari are at least 'similar' to the Maia, wouldn't Radagast have a great deal to say in the battles of ents, eagles, and other natural creatures featured in the War of the Ring in which much of the natural force of middle earth was pitted directly against the evil that wished to destroy it?

I dunno, I just find it somewhat mysterious that Radagast the Brown would do nothing but vanish from site in such a time in which the things he felt the closest to were under direct attack from the force he was put there to defeat in the first place as a member of the White Council.

I just refuse to believe that this character plain vanished from the action concerning these things. What do you think? Can ya help me here? Do you think maybe Radagast was busy in the background helping Gandalf to muster forces on a more natural level than the free peoples? Or maybe did Radagast, as a suspected part of the Maia, change his physical form to something else that Maia have the capability of doing?

Isn't it especially puzzling that at the same time of Gandalf's battle with the Balrog in the depths- the ents themselves became visibly aware of the troubles that faced their buds in Isengard as well as other places in the realm?

And what of Gandalf- when first encountering his fellow members of the original fellowship (POST Balrog) he seemed more puzzled
than anything at their faces- as if he had to re-evaluate who they actually were- after spending all that time with them in their own lives and along the original leg of the quest.

He seemed noticably guarded of his own appearance before these three as well- much more guarded than a scene of reunion would typically be expected- literally guarding his appearance and, in a way, measuring up all three (Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas) of his prior friends before allowing them to know who he was...?

I was just wondering if any of this has been debated before and since I obviously missed it if it had- what's the theory?

Is it at ALL possible that Radagast did NOT merely vanish from sight, but became more prominent in the story than many would originally conceive?

Did he go from being 'The Brown', to being simply: "The White"...?

Enquiring Hobbit-Reader wants to know!

Most Sincerely,

Pinto Gamgee


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## Legolam (Jan 23, 2002)

Hey Pinto, that's some post!

Welcome to the board.

I don't actually know any answers, but I'm intrigued!!


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## Lord Aragorn (Jan 23, 2002)

Well, the Istari _are_ maia and I really don't have any ideas. Maybe he just took a nice vacation for a while, who knows.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Jan 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Lord Aragorn _
> *Well, the Istari are maia and I really don't have any ideas. Maybe he just took a nice vacation for a while, who knows. *




It is said in unfinshed tales that of the 5 istari to set out of aman only 1 returned cause of his vicotires against sauron. It is said that saruman gave into himself and radagast forsook the peoples and decided to live amoungst the birds and animals he was freinds with. So he didn't remain faithfull. Of the 2 blue wizards they don't know what happened.


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## Tar-Palantir (Jan 23, 2002)

I can imagine Radagast was feeling a little sheepish after (inadvertently) sending Gandalf right into Saruman's trap. He probably said "To heck with this Good vs. Evil stuff! Too much back-stabbing and lying. Never had a squirrel (or a sheep, for that matter) pull the wool over my eyes." Last I heard, he changed his name to Doctor Doolittle.


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## Mormegil (Jan 23, 2002)

It says in LOTR that Radagast lived somewhere near Mirkwood.
It might be possible that he was involved in the battle between Dol Goldur (sp) and Lothlorien. Or he might have been involved in the battle that happened at the Lonely Mountain. 
These were both battles that happened during The War of The Ring. We don't get much info about those battles, so it might be possible that he was involved.

BUT IMO he chickened out and went off to live happily ever after with a goat or something like that.


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## Harad (Jan 23, 2002)

He hung around for an Age or three, until the floating Isle came anchored off the Coast, went there, and started a school for magicicans, called...now what was that name. Something like "Pigspots."


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## Mormegil (Jan 23, 2002)

Didn't he have a student called Larry Popper or something like that??


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## Mula (Jan 24, 2002)

It is also mentioned in the Book of Lost Tales by Christopher Tolkien that it seems a bit strange that Radagast failed considering that he was/is a Maia of Yavanna. It would only be appropriate that he cared a lot about the animals and not the sentient races.


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## Grond (Jan 24, 2002)

It is interesting that the of the five Istari were sent to aid the races of Middle-earth in their battles against Sauron, one was of Yavanna who had no real concern for any of the higher level creatures of the world. It is no wonder that Radagast took off. His job from his Boss, would have been to protect the forests and animals. This would have been an impossible task given that the Istari could take no direct action against Sauron. I suppose he could have rallied the Thrushes against the Crebain or maybe sent out a pack of dogs to fight the wolves but, he probably just got frustrated with the whole thing and headed for the mountains and a nice walk about.


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## Anduril (Feb 15, 2002)

*The forgotten Radagast...just for brain exercise...*

Anybody can tell me about the whereabouts of Radagast?

What happened to him?

I think this is not one of the super-coolest topics, but I'm in doubt about this issue...

Regards.


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## Eonwe (Feb 15, 2002)

After the war of the ring, he hooked up with Celeborn and opened a sub shop on the road through Mirkwood.

Seriously I guess he ended up being someone powerful in ME along with the blue wizards. Perhaps he was called back to the West, or remained in his "mortal" body forever.


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## Bill the Pony (Feb 15, 2002)

He turned himself into a moth to help Gandalf, but then he forgot how to change back and got eaten by an evil voodoo peanut.

(look here for a serious answer)


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## Bucky (Feb 16, 2002)

He became The Croc Hunter.....


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## Lord Aragorn (Feb 16, 2002)

I believe that he went into solitude, to be among the creatures of ME which he loved.


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## Elanor (Feb 16, 2002)

I like your theory Bill, that answers the question of how a freakin moth gets into the story.  bwahaha


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elanor _
> *I like your theory Bill, that answers the question of how a freakin moth gets into the story.  bwahaha *



No seriously he in the end forsook society and left the free peoples and lived and hid with the birds and animals and therefore forsook men and his task having to stay in M.E only gandalf stayed loyal. He is probably living there still now with the birds he saw no chance in men with the war so he forsook it.


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## Anamatar IV (Sep 25, 2002)

*What happened to Radagast?*

Does anyone know what happened to radagast? Was he mentioned anywhere other than a few paragraphs in TFotR? Also was he evil or just serving the white wizard before he knew he had turned to evil?


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## Confusticated (Sep 25, 2002)

This is some of what Gandalf tells at the Counsil of Elrond. Radagast was not evil, he just did something that Saruman asked him to do. 



> "Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet he had just the wit to play the part that I set him.





> `At first I feared, as Saruman no doubt intended, that Radagast had also fallen. Yet I had caught no hint of anything wrong in his voice or in his eye at our meeting. If I had, I should never have gone to Isengard, or I should have gone more warily. So Saruman guessed, and he had concealed his mind and deceived his messenger. It would have been useless in any case to try and win over the honest Radagast to treachery. He sought me in good faith, and so persuaded me.
> `That was the undoing of Saruman's plot. For Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum.



I don't think his departure from Middle-earth is written about, but I have not read everything and could be mistaken.


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## Anamatar IV (Sep 25, 2002)

I wanna KNOW!  anyways maybe he died. Im gonna use my imagination...i dont like the idea of him just sailing away so...he was flying an eagle spying on mordor when an orc threw a chain into the air and it strangled the neck of the eagle and the eagle with radagast fell into mt. Doom.  I think that makes perfect sense


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## Confusticated (Sep 25, 2002)

Well remember that he was a Maia. He probably would have ended up back in Aman if he "died" in Middle-earth.


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## Maeglin (Sep 25, 2002)

And anyway I don't think that a chain could take down one of the eagles, remember they work for Manwe himself and are part Maia, so I think the eagle would just fly off with the orc hanging on to the chain for dear life.


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## Anamatar IV (Sep 25, 2002)

no i mean like in the simpsons when homer changed his name he took off his chains and threw the whole bundle into the air and it strangled an eagle. Im saying an orc threw a chain up and without noticing strangled an eagle. But im just joking. Maybe they were flying right over mt. doom and suddenly a burst of lava killed them both.


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## Maeglin (Oct 7, 2002)

*What became of Radagast?*

I always liked Radagast and wished he would have been more involved in the story. But anyway my question is what ever became of him after the war of the ring? Did he ever go back into the west, and if so, when? We know he didn't go with Gandalf and Frodo and the rest of them, but maybe he left with Sam all those years later? I mean he really had nothing else to do, unless he became an advisor or Aragorn's or something, but I doubt that. Is it mentioned what ever happened to him anywhere?


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## Maeglin (Oct 7, 2002)

*Why Gandalf call Radagast his cousin?*



> " I am a wizard," continued Gandalf. " I have heard of you, if you have not heard of me; but perhaps you have heard of my good cousin Radagast who lives near the Southern Borders of Mirkwood?"



Why did Gandalf call Radagast his cousin? Was it just so he didn't have to explain to everyone what he and Radagast really were and thought it would be easier just to say that? I mean they weren't really related were they? Unless they were born into the same family in the west, which would make Saruman and the other two their relatives as well. But anyway if Radagast is his cousin, and him and Gandalf still saw each othe reasonably frequently, why didn't he just ask Radagast to guide the company through Mirkwood? Radagast had nothing better to do, and I was told in another thread that he wasn't part of the white council, so he probably wasn't helping deal with the necromancer at the time when Gandalf left the company. Anyone have anything to say about this?


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## YayGollum (Oct 7, 2002)

Yay for Radagast Fans! Radagast is the coolest! Anyways, no, I've never seen his final destination mentioned anywhere. I'd like to think that he just stayed in Middle Earth, always having fun hanging out with animals in northern Mirkwood. Not too sure, though. Maybe somebody else knows something.


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## Maeglin (Oct 7, 2002)

Well I'm glad there's another Radagast fan anyway.


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## JanitorofAngmar (Oct 7, 2002)

I could tell you...I see him once or twice a year you know...

Ask me sometime and I'll give you the rundown.

JoA


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## YayGollum (Oct 7, 2002)

Oo! I do! I think Gandalf said he was Radagast's cousin because he really was. I always thought that all of the Valar and Maiar showed up at the exact same time, whenever Eru decided to make them. Cousin can be used for lots of different ways to be related. If you're not really sure how he's related, but you know he's related, you might say, "Oh, he's just my cousin." But then, I kind of forgot about the possibility that Gandalf and Radagast and the rest of them might not have shown up at the same time. They could very well have been descendants of dudes who did show up at the beginning of time. I don't know. 
Anyways, I think that Radagast wasn't asked to help out with the hobbit adventure because he always seemed to me to be the kind of guy that likes to stay to himself. Not get caught up in all kinds of troublesome adventures. He was the most average joe of all the wizards. He was a good friend of Beorn's, who also liked to stay to himself. oh well. Yeah. Those are my thoughts. Yay Radagast!


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## gate7ole (Oct 7, 2002)

A far fetched explanation:
We read from UT that:
Each istari was chosen by a Vala.
Olorin(Gandalf) was the representative of Manwe and Varda.
Curumo(Saruman) of Aule.
Aiwendil(Radagast) of Yavanna.
Now Varda and Yavanna were sisters and that makes Gandalf and Radagast cousins in a more general way.
Aule was not related to Manwe or Varda, so Gandalf and Saruman can't be cousins under the same perspective.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Oct 8, 2002)

We know that Gandalf left Middle Earth because his foe was Sauron and that battle was over. He no longer wished to act as counsellor to any man or elf; he had fulfilled the duty he had been sent to perform and longed for his home in the West. 

However, we do not know what Radagast's "duty" was. Certainly, he was part of the White Council and as such was an enemy to Sauron, but he may have had some other obligation to Middle Earth as well, especially with regard to its environment, animals, plants etc. 

Perhaps with the banishment of Sauron, it would be Radagast who would come forward and work to heal the lands that the Dark Lord had ruined (the brown lands, the lands before the Black Gates, the Dead Marshes etc.). If that were indeed the case, then that Wizard would have remained in Middle Earth well after the departure of Gandalf and worked with the folk there - men, dwarves, hobbits and remaining elves - to heal the land of the blight of Sauron. At least it seems to me that this might have been the "duty" imposed upon him by the Valar given his partiality to the living things of Middle Earth. 

When the scars which Sauron left upon the land were no more, then Radagast, too, would have departed into the West having fulfilled his reason for being in Middle Earth.

Mrs. M.


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## YayGollum (Oct 8, 2002)

Well, I always thought that all of the wizards were sent to get rid of Saruon. Radagast and the blue wizards just decided to hang out in Middle Earth, being safe for a while, having fun and stuff. They were just saying, "Hey, we're all immortal. We'll go get him some other time."  Just because Radagast wasn't in the White Coucil doesn't mean that he wasn't sent for the same reason as Gandalf. But yeah, I like your idea about Radagast having that other mission. Maybe the blue wizards had another mission, too. I don't know.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Oct 8, 2002)

I'm sorry. I thought Radagast WAS one of the White Council and indicated as much in my post. Oh well, it was morning - and you know what that means!

Anyway, I did believe that he was one of the Council as were all the Wizards. Otherwise, if all they had was Gandalf and Saruman, it could hardly be called a "Council", could it.

Thanks for posting!


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## DGoeij (Oct 8, 2002)

Apparently only the wizards Saruman and Gandalf were in the White Council, together with Galadriel, Elrond, Cirdan, and other leaders of the Elves. I'm not sure about Radagast.

Radagast, like Saruman, completely abandoned his task of helping Men and Elves in their struggle against Sauron. That was the reason the Istari were sent to ME. The faith of the blue wizards is rather unclear. After the destruction of Sauron, I'd guess Radagast would have been called back to the West, but if he actually went, I don't know.


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## Lantarion (Oct 8, 2002)

From Unfinished Tales: The Istari.


> Indeed, of al the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-Earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Númenór of old, and signifies, it is said, 'tender of beasts').


And also, a few pages later:


> Wilt thou learn the lore
> of the Five that came
> One only returned


This latter quote is the first words of the poem concerning the Istari, originally written in Quenya.


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## Maeglin (Oct 8, 2002)

So only Gandalf went home? Thats sad But do you think that Radagast had the opportunity and just didn't take it?


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## Mrs. Maggott (Oct 8, 2002)

If that's the case, maybe the next time we are in the woods, we should keep an eye out for the old boy! For my book, his love of nature and animals would save him whether he went home or not!


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## Lantarion (Oct 9, 2002)

LOL, yes indeed. 
Welcome to the forum, Mrs. Maggott (wow, that sounds so natural!).


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## Brent (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Why Gandalf call Radagast his cousin?*



> _Originally posted by Glorfindel1187 _
> *Why did Gandalf call Radagast his cousin? Was it just so he didn't have to explain to everyone what he and Radagast really were and thought it would be easier just to say that? I mean they weren't really related were they? Unless they were born into the same family in the west, which would make Saruman and the other two their relatives as well. But anyway if Radagast is his cousin, and him and Gandalf still saw each othe reasonably frequently, why didn't he just ask Radagast to guide the company through Mirkwood? Radagast had nothing better to do, and I was told in another thread that he wasn't part of the white council, so he probably wasn't helping deal with the necromancer at the time when Gandalf left the company. Anyone have anything to say about this? *



In a way they were of the same family, being of the same form but not directly related. The term "cousin" is often used thus in English e.g. Medieval Kings refered to one another as "Cousin" even when they were not related because they were both Kings divinely appointed. So Gandalf refers to Radagast as "Cousin" because they are both Istari.


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## Grond (Oct 17, 2002)

Although I'm not sure that Tolkien intended it that way.... I like gate7ole's explanation the best. Varda and Yavanna are indeed sisters and children from their house would indeed be cousins. 

The more likely answer, given that the actually history of the Istari was written post-LotR, would be the one forwarded by Brent.


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## Maeglin (Oct 17, 2002)

But could it be that at the time The Hobbit was written that Tolkien meant to make them actual cousins born to the same family in ME, because after all, at the time of the Hobbit Gandalf and Radagast were just wizards, not all-powerful beings from the west of ME.


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *Although I'm not sure that Tolkien intended it that way.... I like gate7ole's explanation the best. Varda and Yavanna are indeed sisters and children from their house would indeed be cousins.
> *



Varda and Yavanna sisters? Where did that come from? 
Yavanna's sister is Vana,and Varda has neither sister nor brother.
Unless you look at these sibling relationships like they are all brothers and sisters,because they sprang from Eru's thought.Then they are sisters,but then every Ainu is a brother or a sister to every other Ainu.
I don't think Gandalf really meant anything by "cousin".


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## falcolite (Oct 26, 2002)

Yeah, it makes more sence to me that he just called him cousin, just like how some people call there friends "brother". A general term, to maybe show a more of relationship bewteen them than just two friends. Also, did Tolkien really have all those Maiar and Valar idea's thought up when he wrote The Hobbit? Im not to sure on that one, but as posted earlier, it could be likely, that they were meant to be just wizards born from the same family line.


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## Grond (Oct 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *Varda and Yavanna sisters? Where did that come from?
> Yavanna's sister is Vana,and Varda has neither sister nor brother.
> Unless you look at these sibling relationships like they are all brothers and sisters,because they sprang from Eru's thought.Then they are sisters,but then every Ainu is a brother or a sister to every other Ainu.
> I don't think Gandalf really meant anything by "cousin". *


That would have come from here


> _from Morgoth's Ring, Ainulindale_
> ...but Varda was the Queen of the Valar, and the spouse of Manwe, and her beauty was high and terrible and of great reverence. Yavanna was her sister, and Yavanna espoused Aule;


and here


> _from Morgoth's Ring, Quenta Silmarillion_
> ...He is a smith and a master of crafts; and his spouse is Yavanna, the giver of fruits and lover of all things that grow. In majesty, she is next to Varda, her sister, among the queens of the Valar.


Since CT is not sure which of the written Silmarillions his father intended to be the proper one, we must look at all possibilities. In many of earlier and later writings, Yavanna and Varda are siblings; whereas, Nessa is sister to Melkor and Manwe.


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *That would have come from here and here Since CT is not sure which of the written Silmarillions his father intended to be the proper one, we must look at all possibilities. In many of earlier and later writings, Yavanna and Varda are siblings; whereas, Nessa is sister to Melkor and Manwe.  *



Oh,alright.Since we really don't know which J.R.R. intended as the final version, I agree that we should at least consider the possibilities.

But the sibling relationships in the published Sil make more sense to me. All those who are brothers/sisters share some unique characteristic:

Nienna & Mandos & Lorien - all have some "spiritual" power

Nessa & Oromë - both "athletic",lovers of forests and the wild

Yavanna & Vana - nature

Yavanna & Varda just don't have any (obvious) connection ; Manwë & Melkor & Nessa don't either.


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## Grond (Oct 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *Oh,alright.Since we really don't know which J.R.R. intended as the final version, I agree that we should at least consider the possibilities.
> 
> But the sibling relationships in the published Sil make more sense to me. All those who are brothers/sisters share some unique characteristic:
> ...


 Well, let's see. Who are the two most powerful of the Valier? Varda and Yavanna. Who are the two most powerful of the original Valar? Melkor and then Manwe. Those two affiliations make a little bit of sense to me.


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 27, 2002)

Well yes,power-wise they make sense,but what is Nessa doing as their sister? 
I'll stick with the ones in the published Sil, for me they make more sense.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 27, 2002)

*Radagast - really necessary?*

This is more of a general wondering than a real question so I would like to hear everyone's comments.

There were 5 Istari who came to the NW of ME.The Ithryn Luin (the 2 blue wizards) vanished into the East.
Only Gandalf and Saruman are crucial to the plot,Radagast is a very minor character and I wonder was it really necessary to bring him into the story? His only relevant action was when he "lended" his birds to Saruman and when he "tricked" Gandalf to go to Isengard.
Was Radagast included in the story of tLOTR only because he remained in the NW of Middle Earth (so Tolkien felt the need to at least mention him,as the story of LOTR revolves around that part of the world)? Could the story had gone on without him?


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## Goro Shimura (Nov 27, 2002)

He makes for a good contrast to Gandalf and Saruman... and there's no other logical way to get Gandalf to leave Frodo and go get imprisoned.


Besides, his dialogue with Gandalf is priceless:

"All I knew was that you might be found in a wild region with an uncouth name of Shire."

(Wish they put more of that sort of thing in the movie!)


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 27, 2002)

Oh no,I am not saying I dislike Radagast or anything. I like his part however small it be.
Maybe Radagast could be omitted if Saruman had obtained his help and trust long ago,so Gandalf could still be summoned by (say) a bird or something.
I'm complicating things I know!


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## Celebthôl (Nov 28, 2002)

Radagast isnt bad nor was he nor will he be, he was acting how his leader i.e saruman asked him to he was unaware of the danger he had put Gandalf into, he was also sent to ME to look after the trees and beasts, and he should have been included i think because he adds a nice part of the story, it gives it more depth.

Thôl


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## Eriol (Nov 28, 2002)

I don't think he could be omitted, having being introduced in The Hobbit and living in the NW of middle-Earth. Also, he is useful for the imprisonment of Gandalf, there are not many messengers that he would trust implicitly as he did. As Gandalf said in the book, if any suspicion has passed in his mind, he would at least warn Frodo in person or approach Isengard with more caution..

By the way, don't you think the relationship Gandalf/Saruman is like Manwë/Melkor? I mean, Gandalf was completely unaware of the possibility of foul play by Saruman, just as Manwë could not comprehend the evil in Melkor. Melkor was the first evil, so the surprise is greater in Manwë and he takes more time to believe in Evil than Gandalf. Gandalf said in some parts something like "we are used to such treasons", but even so he was taken by surprise. Almost naively, one might say -- like Manwë.

Just a thought.


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## Lantarion (Nov 28, 2002)

Ooh, calling Manwë naïve is not something to be played around with; is it, Big M? *thunder and lightning effects* 
But: I think Radagast did not actually accomplish anything very contributing to the downfall of Sauron, althuogh this was his task. Even in UT his deeds before he strayed off the actively oppositional path are not even mentioned! But I suppose, or I guess, that his close contact with animals all over M-E might have kept the bird and beast-spies of Saruman and Sauron at bay. 
But I would not have him be discluded from the book; his part is miniscule, but still good.


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## Celebthôl (Nov 29, 2002)

i guess you dont like Radagast then?! he acted how his leader told him and seeing as radaagst gave up his powers a long time ago of being a Maia, he could easly be sweet talked (if that is the correct term) by Saruman even Gandalf was when he came to see Saruman, also Radagast was told by Gandalf to let Gandalf and Saruman use his animals etc, and why shoud he think that Saruman was different he was probibly acting to get Gnadalf his second greatest threat out of tht way (his first being Sauron)!

Thôl


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *and seeing as radaagst gave up his powers a long time ago of being a Maia,*



What are you talking about? Radagast never "gave up" his powers!


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## Celebthôl (Nov 29, 2002)

well he didnt use them to the proper corz (sp) and aparently they were taken away (i may be wrong i heard it along time ago), that is why Gandalf was the only member of the Istraí to accomplish the mission i.e the destruction of Sauron.

Thôl


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 29, 2002)

Radagast failed his mission,yes; but in a much different way than Saruman did. He simply "forgot" his mission and forsook men and elves to tend wild beasts and birds. However,he did not lose his powers, at least not to our knowledge.


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## Ravenna (Nov 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *
> But: I think Radagast did not actually accomplish anything very contributing to the downfall of Sauron, althuogh this was his task. Even in UT his deeds before he strayed off the actively oppositional path are not even mentioned! But I suppose, or I guess, that his close contact with animals all over M-E might have kept the bird and beast-spies of Saruman and Sauron at bay.
> But I would not have him be discluded from the book; his part is miniscule, but still good.  *


If I may disagree slightly here, although I admit that Radagast failed in his overall mission to oppose Sauron, I would say that he had a quite significant, if small part to play. When he passed Saruman's treacherous message to Gandalf, in response, Gandalf asked him to send word out to the beasts and birds of any news, and to bring that news to him at Isengard. Thus it was that Gwaihir came to Orthanc and was than able to rescue Gandalf from his imprisonment. Without that single act, how far would the opposition to Sauron have really got, since Gandalf is the driving force behind all the efforts directed to that end.


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## Anduril (Nov 29, 2002)

I must agree with Ravenna...
Yes, Radagast has a very little part in the whole story, even minimalist, but consider that everyone in the LOTR participated according his own capabilities and potentialities against Mordor and Sauron.

I don't think Tolkien add this character for nothing, remember, it's a narrative, wich is enriched with "details" or "side stories" that help to configure a complete picture.



C U


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## Confusticated (Nov 30, 2002)

I didn't recall Radagast being mentioned in The Hobbit, though I don't think I read it again after reading The Lord of the Rings...no surprise that I forgot.
Anyhow, if Radagast is mentioned in The Hobbit then he had to be mentioned in The Lord of the Rings otherwise everyone would be asking "Why didn't that other wizard from The Hobbit help?"
Surely Tolkien could have worked the story out without Nob the Hobbit too and many other charactors. To have a wizard running loose in Middle-earth go unmentioned would not sit well.

As for the specific part that he played, Tolkien surely could have worked the story out without Radagast, but that was not your question was it?


> I wonder was it really necessary to bring him into the story?


 And I gave my opinion above.


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## aragil (Dec 2, 2002)

Radagast gets only a very little mention in the Hobbit- Gandalf mentions him to Beorn and says that his dwelling is nearby, and Beorn replies that R is not such a bad fellow, as far as wizards go. This was all written long before Tolkien had any idea what the wizards were- while inventing 'The Hobbit' for his children Tolkien would include bits from his greater history of the Elves, but he had not at the time (~1920-1936) firmly defined the relation between 1st and 3rd Age Middle-Earth. While writing the first chapters of The Lord of the Rings (up to Moria) Tolkien was sticking more closely to the formula of the Hobbit, which is why some of the earlier episodes might seem reminiscent of the earlier book- Mirkwood and the Old Forest, the Wargs and the other Wargs, Rivendell, etc. In this setting Radagast makes his onely appearance in LotR, and I must say he looks a little weak for one of the Ainur. In my opinion JRRT seems to forget Radagast later on in the tale- in fact he has Treebeard make the improbable statement that Gandalf is the only Wizard who ever cared for trees and plants! To me (and apparently to CT as well) Radagast wasn't so much a failure- while the other Istari were sent more explicitly to help Elves and Men, Radagast was sent by the urging of Yavanna to help the olvar and the kelvar, a job which I think he accomplished quite well. Why was he a failure? CT asks much the same question in Unfinished Tales, and I don't think there is a satisfactory answer. Was he necessary? Not exactly- but I think the mis-balance in the story created by his actions is far less than the ones introduced with (say) a Glorfindel or the Eagles.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *Radagast gets only a very little mention in the Hobbit- Gandalf mentions him to Beorn and says that his dwelling is nearby, and Beorn replies that R is not such a bad fellow, as far as wizards go. This was all written long before Tolkien had any idea what the wizards were- while inventing 'The Hobbit' for his children Tolkien would include bits from his greater history of the Elves, but he had not at the time (~1920-1936) firmly defined the relation between 1st and 3rd Age Middle-Earth. While writing the first chapters of The Lord of the Rings (up to Moria) Tolkien was sticking more closely to the formula of the Hobbit, which is why some of the earlier episodes might seem reminiscent of the earlier book- Mirkwood and the Old Forest, the Wargs and the other Wargs, Rivendell, etc. In this setting Radagast makes his onely appearance in LotR, and I must say he looks a little weak for one of the Ainur. In my opinion JRRT seems to forget Radagast later on in the tale- in fact he has Treebeard make the improbable statement that Gandalf is the only Wizard who ever cared for trees and plants! To me (and apparently to CT as well) Radagast wasn't so much a failure- while the other Istari were sent more explicitly to help Elves and Men, Radagast was sent by the urging of Yavanna to help the olvar and the kelvar, a job which I think he accomplished quite well. Why was he a failure? CT asks much the same question in Unfinished Tales, and I don't think there is a satisfactory answer. Was he necessary? Not exactly- but I think the mis-balance in the story created by his actions is far less than the ones introduced with (say) a Glorfindel or the Eagles. *



Good points aragil! I don't consider Radagast to be a failure either, definitely not to the same extent as Saruman for example. But please elaborate on the part I underlined - if you will. Why did the kelvar and the olvar require help from a Maia? Of course Sauron destroyed the Entwives in the Brown Lands and Radagast could have been sent for the purpose of preventing such catastrophies and atrocities from happening in the future, but why did he settle down at the Edge of Mirkwood? Was there need for his skills there? Did he heal the desolation of Dol Guldur maybe?


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## Mablung (Dec 2, 2002)

Well if I recall he had power of the beasts so maybe settling on the edge of Mirkwood was simply the best place in his opinion to communicate with as many beasts as he could. An unlikely scenario but still possible.


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## Lantarion (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aragil_
> Radagast was sent by the urging of Yavanna to help the olvar and the kelvar, a job which I think he accomplished quite well.


Ah, I had forgoten that! But you must admit that Radagast (or Aiwendil, whichever you prefer ) did contribute very little to the actual task of the _Istari_, of which he was a member. I'm saying he didn't *complete* the general task, ie. stopping Sauron, but he achieved his second priority.


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## aragil (Dec 2, 2002)

ithrynluin- Lantarion is on the right track with the passage from Unfinished Tales. Unfortunately, it is much less clear than I had remembered it. All it says is that Yavanna begs that Radagast accompany Saruman, and later on CT questions how imposing Radagast on Saruman can be considered as the only way of helping out Yavanna's own creations (I thought that's what the Ents were for). In any case, my reading had always been that Radagast was operating under a seperate directive from the rest of the Istari- the other four were to help Elves and Men, Radagast was to help the creations of Yavanna. Having re-read the passage this morning, I see that the textual evidence to support this is fairly thin. Still, I hate to call Radagast a failure. My personal opinion is that Tolkien introduced him in the Hobbit, and then had to make him out to be a failure- otherwise he detracts from the personage of Gandalf as the only Istar to accomplish the appointed task. Too bad for Radagast, but really Gandalf is the more important character.


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## Halasían (Dec 26, 2002)

Yes, he remained in the woods and faded into them, as I was going to mention the Unfinished Tales but it has been mentioned. Radagast was cool I thought.


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## HLGStrider (Dec 26, 2002)

I'd say that he was a paralell to the ents who became more 'treeish.' He slowly faded and became sleepier and less concerned with what was going on around him... until he stopped caring all together and now sits in the middle of forest humming and smoking.... 

That I can see.

I'm being quite serious.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 27, 2002)

Elgee I agree with you.Radagast refused to continue his mission,I mean he loved animals and plants more than anything else and forgot the purpose of his coming in ME.So I think he had to decide what to do and probably he choosed to stay in ME,but I'm not sure whether he was still immortal or not.


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## HLGStrider (Dec 28, 2002)

I can't think of why or how he could be deprived of his immoratality. It would take a direct act from the Valar or Illuvatar, and I think his "crimes" weren't criminal enough for that... I prefer to think that he faded and faded until you wouldn't notice if he was in the same room as you... and whether or not he could use his powers wouldn't be an issue because he'd be too sleepy to think of it.


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## Blue Wizard (Dec 28, 2002)

Tolkien said that he knew nothing clearly about the other two. (The Blue Wizards).




> I suspect that they were founders or beginners of secret cults and "magic" traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron."The Istari (Unfinished Tales)



From that and what we know of Radagast I suspect that he founded a cult of Druids.


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## Aragorns_girl00 (Dec 29, 2002)

who is he???


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## HLGStrider (Dec 29, 2002)

He's one of the five wizards, but a rather unimportant one. He plays message boy for Gandalf and Saruman and doesn't really do much...

Gandalf mentions him while telling the story of his capture by Sauraman. He was the one who brought the message to Gandalf that Sauraman wanted to see him and sent the eagle after Gandalf in the first place.


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## Finduilas (Jan 1, 2003)

Here is what I found:





> Radagast after arriving to Middle-Earth as the fourth of the wizards took home at Rhosgobel, He was mainly interested; and maybe his mission was, in the care of birds, beast and plants. At least he spend his days among the wild creatures. His name is said to be a name deriving / given from the men of the vales of Anduin, the ancestors of the Rohirrim and the name Radagast means in the tongue of Númenore Tender of Beasts. His "nick-name" the Brown indicates simply his clothing who were earthen brown. His name then indicates that the Men in the upper vales of Anduin once were under some influence of Númerore but that would not be unlikely looking on the history of those people.





> Radagast who was chosen by Yavanna for the task in Middle-earth. He did not contribute, as it look like, much to the overtrow of Sauron but it might be worth to remember that his task and love was for beast, birds and earth and in that strife he was not unsuccesful, he was sent out together with Curumo / Saruman but he left him right after the arrival to Middle-earth, maybe because he had a feeling that his and Sarumans will did not coop wery well and Saruman did never think higly about him, and as the only wizard besides Gandalf Radagast remained faithful to his task.





> Arrived at Middle-earth around Third age 1000, what happened after the fall of Sauron is not specified but it might be thought that now the task was ended he returned to his home in Valinor as Gandalf did.


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## Great Khan (Jan 1, 2003)

Although tolkien said nothing about the Blue Wizards they had names apparently

Alatar: was one of the three original wizards with Saruman and Gandalf 

Pallando: was brought to middle earth because he was friends with Alatar

it seems that Radaghast and Pallando were not intended to go to middle earth


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## Aulë (Jan 1, 2003)

Alatar was one of the original three Wizards selected by the Valar for the journey from Valinor to Middle-earth (the other two being Curumo and Olórin - Saruman and Gandalf).

The Valar originally intended to send just three Maiar as emissaries to Middle-earth. Aiwendil (Radagast) was added to this number by Yavanna, and Pallando was taken by Alatar 'as a friend'.

Alatar and Pallando arrived in Middle-earth dressed in sea-blue. For this reason, they were together given the name Ithryn Luin, the Blue Wizards. With Saruman, they journeyed into the far east of Middle-earth, but while Saruman returned to the west, Alatar and Pallando did not. Of their fate, we know almost nothing.

(Source: http://www.glyphweb.com)


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## Celebthôl (Jan 1, 2003)

K please delete this its in the wrong place, Pippin_Took beat me too it


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## Aulë (Jan 1, 2003)

Sorry, I'm getting into a habit of beating people to the mark by a matter of seconds....


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## Celebthôl (Jan 1, 2003)

well it was more half-an-hourish but i didnt read all the posts, no matter at least the quote and point got across!

Thôl


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## Maeglin (Feb 4, 2003)

*And just a few more questions about Radagast.....*

First of all I just want to request to any mod that might read this to merge all of the Radagast threads, as have been done with the Bombadil threads, because there are a ton of threads concerning Radagast the Brown. 

Okay anyway here's my questions.....


> "It was Radagast the Brown, who at one time dwelt at Rhosgobel, near the borders of Mirkwood."


I was under the impression that Radagast had always lived there, but since he apparently doesn't, where does he live at this time, does he just wander around, sort of like Gandalf does? And what kind of a place was Rhosgobel, was it a nice place sort of like Isengard was, though definitely nowhere near as great as Isengard, does anyone have any info on this?



> "I will do that," he said, and rode off as if the Nine were after him.


What is Radagast so afraid of that he would be riding off so fast like this, and wouldn't even stop and talk with another member of his order and an old friend of his? He can't be afraid of the Nine, they were not after him, but after Frodo. 

Just a few things I noticed, can anyone help me out?


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 4, 2003)

As for your first question, he was probly studdying more birds and stuff in middle earth, and traveling alot. Rhogsobel is probly his home were he keeps all of his long-term posetions
As for your second, im sure he just wanted to make good time. If Gandalf asked him this favor, you wouldnt expect him to trod along at 5mph would u? iduno, just some ideas


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## Gothmog (Feb 5, 2003)

> First of all I just want to request to any mod that might read this to merge all of the Radagast threads



Ask and Ye Shall be answered.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 5, 2003)

*Re: And just a few more questions about Radagast.....*



> _Originally posted by Glorfindel1187 _
> *
> 
> What is Radagast so afraid of that he would be riding off so fast like this, and wouldn't even stop and talk with another member of his order and an old friend of his? He can't be afraid of the Nine, they were not after him, but after Frodo.
> ...


Even more interesting, where was he that Saruman was able to find and use him to lure Gandalf to Orthanc? I was of the opinion that R. was pretty much a stay-at-home, but obvioiusly he had to be somewhere near Orthanc for Saruman to be able to use him as a messenger boy.


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## aragil (Feb 5, 2003)

Rhosbogel (Radagast's home) is relatively near the Gladden Fields. In the tale of years we are told that Saruman kept agents near the Gladden Fields, in an effort to locate the Ring. Presumably Saruman could have used such an agent to contact Radagast.
There is also the story from UT which says that Saruman and Radagast came over from the West together (this contradicts the published work which says Saruman came alone). If the UT passage is "correct", then perhaps would expect Saruman and Radagast to stay in contact more, even if Saruman secretly felt Radagast was an idiot.

Incidentally, the good guys had a hard time trying to catch Radagast at home. After the council of Elrond Elrond's sons go to Lorien to inform the Lord and Lady of the Ring quest- it mentions that they go to Rhosbogel but can not find Radagast.


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## Maeglin (Feb 5, 2003)

Maybe Saruman decided he didn't need him anymore and decided to kill him off, as he may have done to the Ithryn Luin, for the passage in UT also says that the Blue Istari traveled into the East with Saruman, but never returned as he did. However, I find it unlikely that Saruman had killed them because he was not yet evil, even though at that time he though Radagast was an idiot too.


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## redline2200 (Feb 5, 2003)

I have always wondered this but never really got an answer: Why do you think Gandalf never tried to get Radagast as an ally while the War of the Ring was taking place? I realize Radagast was not as powerful as Gandalf, but he was still a wizard, it's not like he was weak! 

Here is Gandalf speaking in "The Council of Elrond"


> Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue; and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends.



It seems like an ally that can change his appearence and has a strong connection with birds and animals would be a strong ally indeed. I just think that if 2 wizards would have been allyed against Sauron then the good side would have had alot more power and advantages.
It's like Gandalf never even attempted to draw Radagast to his cause. Why not?


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 5, 2003)

It may be that once the Ring left the Shire, there simply wasn't time to engage anyone's help other than those present at the Council of Elrond. It is difficult to remember, but really, aside from the "prologue", the entire story of LOTR takes place within one year and given the transportation available at that time period in history, there was no way Radagast could have been brought "on board" in a timely fashion. 

However, I don't doubt that he assisted the people in the north (Dale, Erebor, Esgoroth and the Elves of Mirkwood) when Sauron struck that area, so he probably did his own bit in the War of the Ring.


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## redline2200 (Feb 5, 2003)

That is a good point, but I don't think that is the reason because Gandalf ran into Radagast face-to-face before his imprisonment on Orthanc. He should have just said something there.


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## aragil (Feb 5, 2003)

I'm sure that when Gandalf went to Orthanc he was invisioning that all three Wizards would be united along with the leaders of the free peoples. Radagast had come to Gandalf on an errand from Saruman- why wouldn't Gandalf assume that Radagast would eventually come to Orthanc as well, where the three Wizards would be able to plot the course of the future?

Re. the attempts to reach Radagast, here's the passage from the book:


> The hobbits had been nearly two months in the House of Elrond, and November had gone by with the last shreds of autumn, and December was passing, when the scouts began to return. Some had gone north beyond the springs of the Hoarwell into the Ettenmoors; and others had gone west, and with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood, as far as Tharbad, where the old North Road crossed the river by a ruined town. Many had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair. The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, were the last to return; they had made a great journey, passing down the Silverlode into a strange country, but of their errand they would not speak to any save to Elrond.


 Obviously an attempt was made- Radagast just wasn't home.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by redline2200 _
> *That is a good point, but I don't think that is the reason because Gandalf ran into Radagast face-to-face before his imprisonment on Orthanc. He should have just said something there. *


From the way the conversation went, it would seem R. was in an awful hurry to get somewhere. However, Gandalf did stop him long enough to request sending the eagle (which was certainly useful) to both Wizards at Orthanc. I don't imagine whatever R.'s hurry was all about, Gandalf could have prevailed upon him to do much else given how determined he was to leave instantly. Certainly, R. was not familiar enough with the Shire and Frodo to take the message that Gandalf entrusted to Butterbur. 

R.'s need for haste is just one more thing not explained in LOTR, as it was not considered necessary for the narrative.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 5, 2003)

There are a couple of reasons why Gandalf would not think that the three Wizards would be in Orthanc "running things". The first is that he was going to be with Frodo when he left the Shire, that's certain. His trip to Orthanc was in hopes of obtaining something from Saruman that would help against the Nine on that very journey. 

Secondly, it is obvious that he doesn't see this scenario when he asks Radagast to send an eagle to "the two of us" - he and Saruman - in Orthanc. If in fact the three Wizards would be putting their heads together and adopting strategy, then Radagast would have _accompanied_ Gandalf south. There simply wasn't time to do anything else.

As for R. not "being home", it is possible that Saruman or Sauron had him waylaid and destroyed or at least rendered harmless for the duration. I don't remember much being said about him after the business with the eagle he sends to Orthanc. On the other hand, if things were heating up in the north (and they were), he might have been going about seeing what was up, so to speak, and giving assistance and advice to the local free peoples in that area.


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## aragil (Feb 5, 2003)

If Radagast was sending Eagles with news to Orthanc (and he was), then we can assume that Gandalf would have considered that as being in contact with Radagast while he and Saruman were making whatever plans.

Re. Radagast's further exploits: the Eagles played a part in the remaining War of the Ring- rescuing Gandalf from the peak and attacking Sauron's forces at the Black Gates. You could interpret this to be at the bidding of Radagast, if you like. Of course, in that case Radagast should have had a spot on that last boat to Valinor ...


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## Maeglin (Feb 5, 2003)

Well the boat Gandalf took to Valinor was not the last boat, so it is possible that he went later on when Cirdan left, for he was enamoured with the birds and the beasts of middle-earth and may not have wanted to leave them yet.


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## aragil (Feb 5, 2003)

This is possible, Glorfindel, and it is certainly my preferred reading. However, I note that Tolkien says several different times that Gandalf was the only Istar to succeed in his job, and thus presumably the only one let back into Valinor. However, there are a lot of boats never mentioned- Cirdan is never explicitly mentioned, Celeborn is never explicitly mentioned, and whether Elladan and Elrohir went back or not is never mentioned. Personally I prefer to think they all went back together- if Radagast was also on board then that is fine with me as well.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *This is possible, Glorfindel, and it is certainly my preferred reading. However, I note that Tolkien says several different times that Gandalf was the only Istar to succeed in his job, and thus presumably the only one let back into Valinor. However, there are a lot of boats never mentioned- Cirdan is never explicitly mentioned, Celeborn is never explicitly mentioned, and whether Elladan and Elrohir went back or not is never mentioned. Personally I prefer to think they all went back together- if Radagast was also on board then that is fine with me as well. *



But did the text say that failure to succeed at that task was an automatic ticket to the void? Surely, Radagast was not evil. Saruman himself admits that the Wizard was to "good" to be compromised and thus had to be deluded. 

Then, too, remember that Gandalf offers redemption to Saruman, something which assumes that had he humbled himself and admitted fault and then assisted to his best ability in the war against Sauron that he would have been "forgiven" and permitted to return into the West. Yet, certainly, it could not be said that he had "succeeded" in the task he had been sent to fulfill. The best that could be said for him is that he saw his error before the end and was willing to seek forgiveness and try to make amends for the terrible damage he caused. 

Under the circumstances, that puts Radagast head and shoulders above Saruman in that he never departed from the "right side", but merely became enamoured of other forms of life in Middle-earth. Yes, he "failed" in that he became distracted, but he certainly did not fail to the cataclysmic extent that Saruman failed.


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## aragil (Feb 5, 2003)

I dunno MM. I still think he should have been on the boat, thus making everything explicit (and of course leaving us very little to debate).

Here's the passage on 'failure' from UT- not entirely damning, but not entiirely hopeful either:


> For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had needs to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly. Thus by enduring of free will the pangs of exile and the deceits of Sauron they might redress the evils of that time.
> Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Numenor of old, and signifies, it is said, "tender of beasts"). 4 And Curunír 'Lân, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he.
> ...
> Elsewhere is told how it was that when Sauron rose again, he also arose and partly revealed his power, and becoming the chief mover of the resistance to Sauron was at last victorious, and brought all by vigilance and labour to that end which the Valar under the One that is above them had designed. Yet it is said that in the ending of the task for which he came he suffered greatly, and was slain, and being sent back from death for a brief while was clothed then in white, and became a radiant flame (yet veiled still save in great need). And when all was over and the Shadow of Sauron was removed, he departed for ever over the Sea. Whereas Curunír was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 6, 2003)

Perhas Radagast then was "doomed" to remain in Middle-earth and be another nature spirit like Bombadil against the time of the End and the renewal of all things. When that time came, perhaps Radagast would be granted some part in the care of the "New Creation" that would arise at such time at least in honor of his faithfulness if not to his first mission, then at least to his "side" of the issue and to the beasts and living things that were _also_ the "creations" of Iluvatar. I would prefer to think that, recreant as he undoubtedly was, since he was not evil he was not consigned to the ourter darkness.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *If Radagast was sending Eagles with news to Orthanc (and he was), then we can assume that Gandalf would have considered that as being in contact with Radagast while he and Saruman were making whatever plans.
> 
> Re. Radagast's further exploits: the Eagles played a part in the remaining War of the Ring- rescuing Gandalf from the peak and attacking Sauron's forces at the Black Gates. You could interpret this to be at the bidding of Radagast, if you like. Of course, in that case Radagast should have had a spot on that last boat to Valinor ... *



I'm sure Galadriel was the one who _commanded_ the Eagles to go and bring Gandalf the White to Lórien. I just can't seem to remember where this is stated (UT?).


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## Grond (Feb 6, 2003)

No offense to all the Radagast lovers but he failed miserably in his quest. His actions in keeping Gandalf informed had more to do with Gandalf's request than Radagast having any real intent to aid in the quest which he had already fallen away from.


> _from The Fellowship of the Ring, The Council of Elrond_
> "The Nine have come forth again," I answered. "They have crossed the River. So Radagast said to me."
> 
> "Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!"


It appears that Radagast had already become infatuated with the wild creatures of Middle-earth and had completely abandoned any plans for resistance against Sauron. That makes perfect sense too, since he was specifically sent by Yavanna, who cared mostly for her kelvar and olvar. The Ents were sent to protect the Olvar... who's to say that she didn't dispatch a Maia of her house with the primary mission of aiding the Kelvar. Make perfect sense to me. It is also evident from the professor's writings in UT that Aiwendil was already a bird lover.


> _from Unfinished Tales, The Istari_
> ...The note ends with the statement that Curumo [Saruman] took Aiwendil [Radagast] because Yavanna begged him, and that Alatar took Pallando as a friend. 6
> 
> from Note 6 - ...Aiwendil must mean "lover of birds;" cf. Linaewen "lake of birds" in Nevrast


and this


> _same source_
> For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Numenor of old, and signifies, it is said, "tender of beasts"). 4


It sounds to me like Radagast never intended to become involved in the affairs of Men or Elves or Dwarves. He was interested in the Beasts of the Earth and for that reason, failed in the mission for which he was sent by the Valar as a whole. He may very well have succeeded in accomplishing what his mistress Yavanna had sent him for.


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## Grond (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *I'm sure Galadriel was the one who commanded the Eagles to go and bring Gandalf the White to Lórien. I just can't seem to remember where this is stated (UT?). *


 Here is the quote to which I think you are referring good ithrynluin.


> _from The Two Towers, The White Rider_
> ...And so at the last Gwaihir the Windlord found me again, and he took me up and bore me away.
> 
> "Ever am I fated to be your burden, friend at need," I said.
> ...


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 6, 2003)

I don't think you can "divide" Radagast's care for the creatures of Middle-earth from his resistance to Sauron. Sauron was an enemy of _all_ life, not just sentient life. He blasted and destroyed the earth itself. His victory in Middle-earth would have been a death sentence to all living creatures except those whom Sauron would enslave for his use. Certainly that would _not_ include most of the creatures whom Radagast protected. 

While it is true that the Wizard was not overmuch concerned with the fate of the free peoples of Middle-earth, he would certainly have moved against anyone who threatened his beloved creatures so no one can say that he was on "the other side" of this conflict - and I will use the old Gospel addage, "he who is not for me is against me" as proof of that surmise. 

Therefore, however imperfectly, Radagast must be considered as an enemy of the Dark Lord and probably worthy of a boat back home (albeit a leaky one!).


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## Lantarion (Feb 6, 2003)

Yes I agree. Except I'm not quite sure what you mean by *he would certainly have moved against anyone who threatened his beloved creatures*. What do you mean by moving against? As far as Tolkien lets us understand, Radagast had no destructive 'magical' skills, and that his chief strength was in communication and understanding between wild animals who would help him if he called for them. As I understand, Aiwendil was the least potent in magical power and prowess of all the Istari; he was not helpless or inadequate, but his powers were of a different (and much more passive) sort than those of Gandalf and Saruman, who display their power in small gestures (Gandalf making fire on Caradhras) or in subtle corruption (Saruman's voice). And I believe that Saruman was capable of asserting at least some power into destructive force, eg. in fire or the like.

But I agree that Radagast was still on the 'good' side, even though he had become perhaps overly passive in his struggle against Sauron. As we see from the LotR, he did still take thought to his true quest, because he had received command from Saruman to find Gandalf in the Shire, and he did. But as for the showing of any hypothetical physical/magical force, whether against the servants of Sauron or not, does not strike me as likely.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *Yes I agree. Except I'm not quite sure what you mean by he would certainly have moved against anyone who threatened his beloved creatures. What do you mean by moving against? As far as Tolkien lets us understand, Radagast had no destructive 'magical' skills, and that his chief strength was in communication and understanding between wild animals who would help him if he called for them. As I understand, Aiwendil was the least potent in magical power and prowess of all the Istari; he was not helpless or inadequate, but his powers were of a different (and much more passive) sort than those of Gandalf and Saruman, who display their power in small gestures (Gandalf making fire on Caradhras) or in subtle corruption (Saruman's voice). And I believe that Saruman was capable of asserting at least some power into destructive force, eg. in fire or the like.
> 
> But I agree that Radagast was still on the 'good' side, even though he had become perhaps overly passive in his struggle against Sauron. As we see from the LotR, he did still take thought to his true quest, because he had received command from Saruman to find Gandalf in the Shire, and he did. But as for the showing of any hypothetical physical/magical force, whether against the servants of Sauron or not, does not strike me as likely. *



I simply meant that he could not have been considered "on the other side" of the issue. Whatever he could have done under the circumstances, he would have done and that includes using his birds and animals to spy on the enemy's movements and keep the people of the north appraised thereof. Remember, even though Radagast might not have become involved with his northern neighbors - dwarf, elf and men, - that does not mean that he was unaware of the use they could be put to in his own scheme to save his creatures from the depredations of Sauron and his wicked creatures.

We, of course, have no knowledge of anything Radagast did in the war, but he was not so dense an uninvolved that he would have simply "overlooked" Sauron's plans for Middle-earth. The mere fact that he was in such a precipitous hurry to leave Gandalf and considered the fact that he had "wasted" months seeking him, indicates that Radagast did more than sit around doing a Dr. Dolittle!


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## Eriol (Feb 6, 2003)

You shouldn't disregard simple communication with animals Lantarion, haven't you watched Dr. Doolittle?  

Seriously, Radagast strikes me as a "backstage" sort of guy, who wouldn't move until the end was terribly near (this must have been the impression Saruman left on him by the way). Like T. Bombadil, really (who probably would have greatly enjoyed a chat with Radagast...).

_Edit: It seems Mrs. Maggott got the same idea from your hint at simple communication  _


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## Grond (Feb 6, 2003)

> _from Unfinished Tales, The Istari_
> ...Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures...


This quote would make it seem that the mission of the Istari was very specific and that in "that mission" only Gandalf remained faithful. In our world, many times when someone gives their all and fails, they still are rewarded for trying. Radagast, in the author's own words, fails to even try to complete his task on Middle-earth. 

He may have still deserved a boat-ride to Valinor... he just didn't want to take it.


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## Maeglin (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *This quote would make it seem that the mission of the Istari was very specific and that in "that mission" only Gandalf remained faithful. In our world, many times when someone gives their all and fails, they still are rewarded for trying. Radagast, in the author's own words, fails to even try to complete his task on Middle-earth.
> 
> He may have still deserved a boat-ride to Valinor... he just didn't want to take it. *



But Grond, the mission of the Istari may not have been very specific, according to this quote, same source as Grond's:


> It may be seen that they were free each to do what they could in this mission; that they were not commanded or supposed to act _together_ as a small central body of power and wisdom; and that each had different powers and inclinations and were chosen by the Valar with this in mind.



This suggests that Radagast's mission may have only been to take care of the animals at Yavanna's bidding, and not to fight against Sauron with all of his power, in which case he did not fail his mission at all. In any case, Radagast did not have enough power to defy Sauron in any great way, as we see here, from "The Council of Elrond".....


> Radagast is, of course, a worthy Wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue; and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends.



It seems to me like knowing a lot about plants and animals wouldn't help much in a fight against Sauron, and changing hue and/or shape would only help hide you, and of course nothing could hide from the Eye of Sauron.


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## aragil (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *I'm sure Galadriel was the one who commanded the Eagles to go and bring Gandalf the White to Lórien. I just can't seem to remember where this is stated (UT?). *


 As powerful as she was, I am not under the impression that Galadriel regularly spoke with Eagles, or that she coculd summon them at her own wish. If an Eagle was in Lorien, then my assumption is that he was originally sent there by the orders of Radagast. Possibly this was a new order after picking up Gandalf.

Radagast to Gwaihir: "Hmm. Saruman had Gandalf imprisoned on the top of Orthanc, eh? Tell you what, from now on why don't you report to Galadriel instead."

Also, in the _Passing of the Grey Company_ either Elladan or Elrohir mentions that word came to Rivendell from Lorien that Aragorn had need of his kinsmen. Perhaps Radagast was having the Eagles report to both Lorien and Rivendell.

So my defense of Radagast runs thus:
As MM has already implied, Radagast's individual mission seems a bit cloudy. He was sent to help in the struggle against Sauron, and he was sent by Yavanna. I don't think the other Valar were under any misconception as to why Yavanna insisted that Aiwendil go- implicitly they were then agreeing that if he went then the majority of his time would be spent with the olvar and the kelvar. This isn't a big deal to me- Saruman went and concerned himself with the crafts of Sauron (Aule), Alatar and Pallando went into the East (Orome). I've never been clear whether Gandalf was supposed to represent Irmo or Manwe, but he was certainly in the beginning fond of Elves, and this affinity aided him in forming a coalition against Sauro. In any case we see the Istari resisting Sauron by using their specific strengths and backgrounds (this is all supported by Glorfindel's post). For the Valar to have expected otherwise would have been ridiculous, and there is no evidence that they did so.
So the question becomes, did Radagast accomplish anything in the fight vs. Sauron? I think the answer is yes, albeit a yes based on speculation. First off, the Eagles are strongly tied to Radagast based on Gandalf's account at the Council of Elrond. There are many explanations for why the Eagles pop-up and save the day on occasion, but by far the most explicit one is the occasion where Gwaihir picks up Gandalf because he is sent by Radagast. In this case of course the main help is accidental, but it comes about because Radagast is using his affinity with animals in an attempt to help the Free Peoples fight Sauron. Yes he is enamored with animals, but I don't see this affecting his job, at least not in this case. If we assume that all the appearance of the Eagles are Radagast's only contribution to the struggle, then he still plays a significant role. We can probably make further assumptions- there is no reason to beleive that Radagast wasn't part of the White Council, therefore he probably had some part in driving Sauron out of Mirkwood. Also, we can assume that Radagast choosing a house so near Dol Guldur was no accident. MM mentions Sauron's domination of some of the animals- shirley the Spiders of Mirkwood were one such example. Who is to say that Radagast wasn't instrumental in keeping them in Mirkwood and relatively under control? Beorn certainly has a high opinion of him (as high an opinion as he is likely to acknowledge, given his gruffness)- perhaps it is because of aid which Radagast has given him in the past.
Again, I don't see Radagast as having fallen from the quest. He demonstrably helped in the way in which he was capable, if in nothing else then in getting Gandalf off of Orthanc. No, he did not use overt magics, but after all the Valar had forbade the Istari to influence events through use of their own innate power. Yes, he was less of a player than Gandalf, but succeeding to a lesser degree is not the same thing as failing. Indeed, other than JRRT's statement that Radagast "became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth" I don't see any evidence that Radagast failed at all. Indeed, I see the opposite- there is evidence that Radagast was helping the fight against Sauron, in however a subtle or implicit way.


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## Grond (Feb 6, 2003)

Aragil,

Seven posts above your last one, I specifically quoted Gwaihir saying in the text from _The Two Towers, The White Rider_ 
*"That indeed is the command of the Lady Galadriel who sent me to look for you," he answered.*

I would also like your comments on my first post which is eight posts above your last one where I make my case as to why Radagast was a failure.


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## aragil (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *As powerful as she was, I am not under the impression that Galadriel regularly spoke with Eagles, or that she could summon them at her own wish. If an Eagle was in Lorien, then my assumption is that he was originally sent there by the orders of Radagast. Possibly this was a new order after picking up Gandalf.
> 
> Radagast to Gwaihir: "Hmm. Saruman had Gandalf imprisoned on the top of Orthanc, eh? Tell you what, from now on why don't you report to Galadriel instead."*


 Grond- this part was meant to reply to your post about Galadriel. Yes Gwaihir was sent from Lorien to get Gandalf, but what was he doing in Lorien in the first place?

Re. your post about his failing- again, I don't think the other Valar were deluded by Yavanna. They knew that if she was sending along an Istar, then his concern would be the plants and trees. I view Tolkien's statement from UT to be in a sense contrasting Gandalf against the other four. Tolkien liked Gandalf, he wanted him to seem unique in his ability to not 'fail'. Radagast was not a large enough part of the books to be worth saving (My take on the professor's thoughts). However, what we see in both Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit seems to indicate that Radagast was helping in the fight against Sauron, and he was doing so in a manner appropriate to his origin as one of Yavanna's people (just like the other four Istari opposed Sauron in a manner commensurate with their respective Vala). I believe that Tolkien's statement about Radagast is inconsistent with his other statements from Lord of the Rings. Being an admitted Radagast lover, I'll choose to side with him on this particular inconsistency.
Hope this satisfies.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 6, 2003)

I like the old boy. As an animal lover (in the summer my neighbors wonder what I'm doing when I walk the dog early in the morning and spend time bending over puddles in the road - I'm saving earthworms, that's what!) R. get's my vote. Of course, given that Saruman was able to deceive him so readily, it may well be that it was all for the best that he didn't get involved in intricate plans and machinations. He might have put his foot in it! 

However, if he was faithful to "his" Vala, then he had nothing to worry about as far as being exiled to the void in the end. If there was blame, then the blame was his superior's, not his.


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## Grond (Feb 6, 2003)

MM, actuarlly, I'm prone to agree with both your and my good friend Aragil's last post. Yavanna's interests on Earth were definately different than most of her fellow Vala. As for Radagast being so easily fooled by Saruman, let us not forget that Gandalf, too, was duped and Saruman retained his silver-tongue to the end. 

Thanks for your reply and also for yours Aragil. I just wanted to make sure someone was paying attention to me.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *MM, actuarlly, I'm prone to agree with both your and my good friend Aragil's last post. Yavanna's interests on Earth were definately different than most of her fellow Vala. As for Radagast being so easily fooled by Saruman, let us not forget that Gandalf, too, was duped and Saruman retained his silver-tongue to the end.
> 
> Thanks for your reply and also for yours Aragil. I just wanted to make sure someone was paying attention to me.   *



My dear Grond! How can you even ask the question? Would someone ignore a great light unless blind? I don't believe anyone in our Guild would "ignore" anyone else if for no other reason than one of "ordinary" courtesy (although that virtue can no longer be considered "ordinary" by any stretch of the imagination!).

P.S. I don't think that Gandalf was as much fooled by Saruman as he allowed himself to be misled because he was hearing what he wanted to hear - soothing words which made him less anxious about the hobbit's ring. 

There is no greater delusion in the world than self-delusion. Gandalf didn't _want_ Bilbo's ring to be problematic first, because he had no right to demand that the hobbit do anything about the ring since it belonged (in the ordinary understanding of that word) to the hobbit and not the Wizard. Secondly, if the ring _were_ problematic (and I don't doubt for a moment that had Gandalf been honest with himself, all those years of chasing around would not have been necessary!) what on earth was the Wizard going to _do_ about it. The fact that he never mentioned the Ring to Saruman leads me at least to believe that he was not nearly so trusting of that individual as he wanted to be. So, Gandalf finds himself in a conundrum that he chooses to address like so many other people do in similar situations - hoping that if you ignore it, it will go away. 

This failure to follow up on his own "sneaking suspicions" about the hobbit's ring is one of Gandalf's great failings - indeed, perhaps his _only_ failing in the matter. But he was steering a very difficult course among many obstacles, distrust of his "superior" being not the least. (And besides, what sort of story would it have made if the whole thing had been over while Sauron was still gathering his scattered forces!)


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## aragil (Feb 6, 2003)

(posted a little late- in reference to earlier post by Mrs. Maggot)

Actually MM, I'm beginning to wonder if even Saruman's spirit was denied final return to Valinor. Here are three bits to me which suggest otherwise:


> _From The Scouring of the Shire_
> To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.





> _From UT, The Istari_
> For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had needs to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly. Thus by enduring of free will the pangs of exile and the deceits of Sauron they might redress the evils of that time.
> ...
> Whereas Curunír was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.



Could Saruman's spirit have been doomed to return to Valinor? I guess the void is also a viable option, but I think there is a possibility that Saruman was to return to Valinor, if only to sit in the Halls of Mandos.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *(posted a little late- in reference to earlier post by Mrs. Maggot)
> 
> Actually MM, I'm beginning to wonder if even Saruman's spirit was denied final return to Valinor. Here are three bits to me which suggest otherwise:
> Could Saruman's spirit have been doomed to return to Valinor? I guess the void is also a viable option, but I think there is a possibility that Saruman was to return to Valinor, if only to sit in the Halls of Mandos. *



One wonders a great deal about Saruman. When he reaches the Grey Havens, his spirit is such that Cirdan gives the elven ring not to him as the most powerful, but to Gandalf as the most _trustworthy._ I am not learned about the Valar who sent the various Wizards (I just rather assumed that they had been "sent" by the collective, so to speak), but if each was sent by a different Vala, then perhaps it would do well to know what Saruman's instructions were that may have differed as much from Gandalf's as did Radagast. 

We know that Sauron was less blameworthy than his Master, Melkor. It may be that not all of Saruman's failings are solely his.


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## Maeglin (Feb 7, 2003)

Also posted late, but in reference to just about everything and about how someone had said he may have been elsewhere getting help from all of his animal friends and everything, this more or less proves it, and also proves that he sent the eagle to save Gandalf from the Pinnacle of Orthanc, from _The Council of Elrond_ 


> "At first I feared, as Saruman no doubt intended, that Radagast had also fallen. Yet I had caught no hint of of anything wrong in his voice or in his eye at our meeting. If I had, I should never have gone to Isengard, or I should have gone more warily. So Saruman guessed, and he had concealed his mind and decieved his messenger. It would have been useless in any case to try and win over the honest Radagast to treachery. He sought me in good faith, and so persuaded me.
> "That was the undoing of Saruman's plot. For Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring these tidings to me.
> "So it was that when summer waned, there came a night of moon, nd Gwaihir the Windlord, swiftest of the Great Eagles, came unlooked-for to Orhanc; and he found me standing on the pinnacle. Then I spoke to him and be bore me away, before Saruman was aware. I was far from Isengard, ere the wolves and orcs issued from the gate to pursue me.



This may also explain why Radagast was not at home at Rhosgobel when Elladan and Elrohir went to look for him, for Rhosgobel is close to Mirkwood and Dol Guldur, in the Southern part of Mirkwood, but I would imagine that Radagast would go farther north to ask help from the Beornings and to be sure that none of the evil creatures around Dol Guldur heard what he was doing. So Radagast did play a part in the War of the Ring, sending animal spies and helpers out to aid the free peoples.


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## Lifeling (Mar 31, 2003)

*Whatever happened to Radgast?*

Right..? I mean I just remember him being mentioned once and then never again... Another thing... how many wizards were there? in the movies there are 2... in the books, 3. (I havent read simarillion or lost tales, or forgotten tales.) so my knowledge is limited...
enlighten me!


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## Celebthôl (Mar 31, 2003)

ha yes, i love these threads, there were 5 wizards (or Istarí) they were named:

1) Saruman
2) Gandalf
3) Radagast
4) Alatar
5) Pollando

Radagast was never mentioned again properly, and it is not known what exactly happened to him...

for more information on the wizards consult here:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

Thôl


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## WishIWasArwen (Oct 4, 2003)

*Radagast the Brown*

Who is he and why is he not in the movies?


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## Snaga (Oct 4, 2003)

Ack! Bad font choice Wish! I can hardly read your posts

OK ... Radagast is one of the Istari, the order of Wizards that also includes Saruman and Gandalf. They are immortal beings, lesser spirits known as Maiar, clothed in human form.

He isnt in the movie because his part in the book was very small and they couldnt film it all.


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## WishIWasArwen (Oct 4, 2003)

Sorry. Fixed. Just thought it fitted in with the theme, heh  . Radagast...the BROWN... .


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## Flammifer (Oct 4, 2003)

He is a wizard, one of the _Istari_, who were a group of 5 wizards, two of whom were Gandalf and Saruman, along with two others, the Blue Wizards, who went into the Far East, and started their own resistance against Sauron.

These wizards were sent from the Blessed Realm by the Lord of Arda, the Vala Manwe, to aid the Free Peoples of Middle-earth in the fight against Sauron. They were forbidden to take lordship over any people, they were only to help in guidance and counselling and a bit of magic here and there.

Saruman broke this rule, because he allied himself with Sauron and started attacking the people he was meant to be helping.

*Anyway*, Radagast was one of these wizards. He is a very minor character. He is extremely under-developed in all the books, and we know little of him. He was an expert of birds and beasts, and skilled in changes of guise and hue. 

He found Gandalf and sent him to Saruman, who imprisoned him. Radgast didn't get corrupted like Saruman, though. He only did what Saruman asked because Saruman was the chief of the wizards.

Radagast live in Rhosgobel, near the eaves of Mirkwod forest for a while. We know little else of him.

Hope this helps!


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## WishIWasArwen (Oct 4, 2003)

The Istari are also Maiar, yes?


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## Flammifer (Oct 4, 2003)

Partly, yes.

The Istari were Maiar, but there were Maiar that were not sent to Middle-earth. They live in the Blessed Realm (aka Valinor, Aman)


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## Lantarion (Oct 4, 2003)

Radagast's name is said to be Adûnaic (the language of Númenor), meaning 'Tamer of Beasts'. His original Quenya name, however, was _Aiwendil_, 'Lover of Birds' (I'm guessing _aiwë_, 'bird'; and _-(n)dil_, 'lover of-').


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## redline2200 (Dec 18, 2003)

*Yet another thread about the mysterious Radagast.....*

I'm sure this has been pondered by many people before me; that is why I am asking this question to all you the people of more knowledge than me.  

What happened to Radagast at the end of the Third Age (or rather, the beginning of the 4th)?
We know he did not depart on the ship that led Gandalf, Bilbo, etc. to Valinor, so did he stay in ME or leave later in an untold story? Or what about the possibility of his death? (Personally, I doubt this possibility, because I think Tolkien would have mentioned this).

Any ideas from all of my fellow Radagast the Brown hypothesizers?


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 18, 2003)

From everything I've remembered or read he's just stayed in Rhovannon (sp?) until the ship left for the Grey Havens. I doubt that he'd have had the chance to go to the West any other time... Tolkien kind of just leaves the end of Rhadagast blank.

Allthough there may be some people who could give u a deffinate answer.


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## Gandalf The Grey (Dec 18, 2003)

I think you mean Rhosgobel, at the edge of Mirkwood, *Black Captain*?

Nice to see you back. 

* bows greetings *


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## HLGStrider (Dec 18, 2003)

Well, I've said this before and I'll say it again even if it has no backing. . .I've never seen it directly _disproven_ so I'll stick with it.

Anyway. . .

I think he became treeish, like an Ent would, and just sort of blended into the forest around him. He's out there now, sleeping under a tree, his beard a good twenty feet long, totally covered in moss, dust, and spiderwebs, sleeping in Mirkwood. His snores make the sound of the wind in the branches, and every so often he mumbles something about getting up and doing what he was sent there to do. Then he moans, yawns, shuts his eyes again, and sleeps on.

What we see of Radaghast is all very limited. He doesn't take much interest in the procedings. I think he'd take less and less interest until one day he just stops basically thinking.


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gandalf The Grey _
> *I think you mean Rhosgobel, at the edge of Mirkwood, Black Captain?
> *


Haha naw... Rhovinan... I think that's what it's called... Wilderland in your tongue  . It just reffers to the whole region that Mirkwood lies in... the general North East section on the maps 

Perhaps we should call him Rumple-stilt-skin then Elgee?


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## Gandalf The Grey (Dec 18, 2003)

Ah! In that case, you mean Rhovanion, my friend.


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 18, 2003)

Indeed I do. I never could spell it right


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## Flammifer (Dec 18, 2003)

Hehe.

And interesting theory, Elgee! Very nice indeed. I can't disprove it!

But can you disprove my theory that Radagast is now the corrupt Mayor of Nellyville, has developed a deep southern accent, and goes for curvaceous young redheads? 

(Wow that's one of the most random things I've ever written)

But really, I don't think we're ever going to know the real fate of Radagast. It seems that he failed in his mission, so, maybe he wasn't allowed to go back to Valinor - he was exiled because he didn't do the task appointed to him. He really was a very lazy article.


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## Gandalf The Grey (Dec 18, 2003)

On another note, here's a post to answer our fearless thread-leader *redline2200* with a bit more whimsy, ... following in the creative footsteps of *Elgee*. 

* Ten feet above the ground, someone strongly resembling an out-of-place brown leaf in midwinter clung one-handed with resigned stubborness to the protruding branch of a hemlock tree. Several wary crebain, keeping an eye on their home, circled inquisitive caws around the tree as Radagast wielded a cedar staff like a broomstick. This being Mirkwood, there was no shortage of cobwebs to be cleared! * 

* Stepping out with careful footing upon one creaking branch while maintaining a left-handed grip upon another, the wizard answered his feathered friends. * "To be sure, Swiftwing, I missed The Last Ship as it sailed West. And though I know not whether my choices have left me stranded in Middle Earth, I see much work still to be done here. So long as monstrous spiders threaten Mirkwood, Mirkwood needs me. Fear not! Your family's nesting tree will soon be rid of these foul-knotted ropy webs!"

* A blast of the cedar staff turned the spider web into a clear liquid. Soon, all that was formerly webbing had formed into large tear-shaped drops that fell harmless as dew to the ground below. *

* As Swiftwing uttered a cry of thanks, his mate Brighteyes spotted forms moving underneath who just now found themselves wetly spattered by drops of destroyed web. "Visitors!" croaked Brighteyes, "Goblin! 'Ware!"

* Radagast clutched tighter at his support branch, closing his eyes and wincing at the mention of a goblin. Unbalanced by surprise, he toppled from his perch. Doom smiled on the brown wizard, for on the way down he caught himself on a lower branch. Though the staff dropped from his clenched fist and the wind was knocked out of him, the only further damage suffered by Radagast when he at last hit the ground was bumps, bruises, and a torn cloak. *

* Radagast picked himself up, brushed away a few sappy twigs and coniferous needles from muddied clothing, and greeted the group. * "Hallo ... who comes to Mirkwood?"


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## Flammifer (Dec 18, 2003)

Hahaha

Very creative, Gandy!   

They're great.........and perhaps just slightly more likely than my scenario!


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## Snaga (Dec 18, 2003)

He failed of his task, and became enamoured of the creatures of Middle-Earth; rather than aiding the people of Middle Earth in the fight against evil.

So you could believe that he would eventually return to Valinor, not in triumph yet not in total disgrace since he never turned to evil...

Or that he stayed in Middle Earth ever more diminuished, as he wasted the power that was within him in pursuit of ever greater affinity with the creatures of Middle Earth

Or that in Fourth Age, when evil next arose, he redeemed himself by realising there is no solace in nature in itself, and that ultimately those of good will must make a stand against those that would ruin the world in the pursuit of power

Or anything else you care to think of....


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## HLGStrider (Dec 18, 2003)

> But can you disprove my theory that Radagast is now the corrupt Mayor of Nellyville, has developed a deep southern accent, and goes for curvaceous young redheads?



This can be disproven with simple logic.

Logical Premesis One: Radagast was a gentle man.
Logical Premesis Two: Gentlemen prefer blondes.
Logical Conclusion: Radagast prefered blondes and wouldn't touch the nasty red heads. . .curvaceous or not.



> (Wow that's one of the most random things I've ever written)



You can't be random without my permission. I'm QUEEN of random.



I still like my theory best.


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## Flammifer (Dec 18, 2003)

Gentleman?!? Assuredly not, your Ladyship (hehe Shelob).



> _LotR: FotR, "The Council of Elrond"_
> 
> ' "Gandalf!" he cried. I was seeking you. But I am a stranger in these parts. All I knew was that you might be found in a wild region with the *uncouth name* of Shire"



Gentleman?!? He can't even respect the name of a region of Middle-earth, the place he is meant to be protecting! What a snob!



> _LotR: FotR, "The Council of Elrond"_
> 
> "I myself shall turn back at once." And with that he would have ridden straight off."



How rude! He didn't even say "goodbye", "farewell", or anything! 

Gentleman?!? Assuredly not!



> Radagast prefered blondes and wouldn't touch the nasty red heads. . .curvaceous or not.



Any redheads here that want to defend themselves?!?


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## HLGStrider (Dec 18, 2003)

Elgee tosses her _blonde _ hair and decides the red heads can have Radagast if they want him since he is obviously not a gentleman.

I ought to start a poll on Radagast. . .maybe he was a rednecky type outdoorsy guy. . .


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## Flammifer (Dec 18, 2003)

Haha.....at last we agree.....Radagast was a rednecked hick! Hence his deep southern accent!


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## HLGStrider (Dec 18, 2003)

Another interesting poll by ELGEE! 

Here. . .you can express your opinion. . .


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## Úlairi (Dec 19, 2003)

Perhaps this might be of some assistance.



> _Unfinished Tales: The Istari_
> *"For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of the earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years."*



You could derive a few theories on that. Perhaps Aiwendil became so enamoured with the beats of ME that he denied himself food and water! Highly unlikely however. Another explanation may be that the gift of immortality for his physical body was abolished, as his spirit perhaps had lost some of its inherent nobility, as Aiwendil fell from his errand, as did Saruman. Why Saruman didn't die because of sudden loss of nobility (which cannot be rebuked), all I could say in answer would be that Saruman was an instrument for good, as all evil supposedly is. Perhaps his body grew so weary, and aged so much that eventually he diminished.

However, I believe this to be the most likely explanation.



> _Unfinished Tales: The Istari_
> *"There is no hint of an explanation of why Yavanna's evident desire that the Istari should include in their number one with a particular love of the things of her making could only be achieved by imposing Radagast's company on Saruman; while the suggestion in the essay on the Istari (p. 505) that in becoming enamoured with the wild creatures of Middle-earth Radagast neglected the purpose for which he was sent is perhaps not perfectly in accord with the idea of his being specially chosen by Yavanna."*



Pretty self-explanatory. The purpose for which Aiwendil was sent may not really have been to counter Sauron at all, but to observe and learn the lore of the creatures of ME, which Christopher Tolkien said was rather *evident*. So, when his purpose was fulfilled, Radagast would then return to Yavanna to tell her what he had learned.


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## Rangerdave (Dec 19, 2003)

Leave it to Ulairi to get all serious in an obviously funny thread.   


Besides everyone knows that Radagast shaved off his beard, traded in his brown robes for khaki shorts and moved to Beerwah Australia where he can now be seen hunting crocodiles.

RD


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## Úlairi (Dec 19, 2003)

I might be the serious one, but at least I don't use the same joke in two different threads!


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## Flammifer (Dec 19, 2003)

Ulairi, thankyou for your imput, it's very interesting.

Hahaha very nice RD, very nice......actually most of us Aussies don't partiularly like Steve Irwin - we reckon that he gives us all a bad name and reinforces the stereotypes that people from other countries already have of us........but anyway.......overseas people seem to like him.......we're not sure why........


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## Úlairi (Dec 19, 2003)

I don't necessarily think so, I'm an Aussie myself! You know that Steve Irwin saved a man's life when he conducted a search party for a man (and a woman) who had been missing for a day at sea? He found the man, I believe the woman had died. What a hero! Fights crocs and save lives!


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## Flammifer (Dec 19, 2003)

I haven't heard that story, Ulairi. Wow, it's great if he did that!

I'm not arguing that fact that the guy's a hero, or that he's good at sitting on crocodiles, but the stereotype that he brings with his brand of, erm, heroism. 

I think that too many people from oversease believe that we all just wanna chuck a few more prawns on the barbie and have a Fosters or two. I think that Steve Irwin basically confirms this conception in foreigners' minds, whilst the other 19 million Aussies are asked questions when they go overseas like "Do you ride to school in a Kangaroo's pouch?" and "Do you have electricity over there?"

(Believe it or not, the latter question was asked of me by a 25 year old American! WE WERE TALKING OVER MSN!!!!!!!)


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## Húrin Thalion (Dec 19, 2003)

Hmmm... I thought you were all like Steve Irvin.... or possibly Crocodile Dundee.

Anyway, Radagast. Well, I do not see a problem returning for him, after all, his body was more like clothes for his spirit than "Radagast", if you take my meaning. If the Valar wanted, they could easily summon him home, with or without boat, with or against his will. One might ask why he was not on the ship, and that I do not know, maybe he refused to go there and lingered in Mirkwood, but in the end, I believe that he had to abandon his "flesh" and return to Valinor, where he belonged.

Måns


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## redline2200 (Dec 19, 2003)

I really wish that Tolkien would have written more about Radagast. I think he is a very intriguing (sp) character. I think he could be worked in the trilogy very easily and he would make it much better. Picture this......

It's the RotK and all the powers of the west (Gandalf, Aragorn, Eomer, sons of Elrond, etc.) are fighting before the black gate in a last stand. Everything looks lost because they are severly outnumbered. Well, as we all know, the eagles come to save the day. But let us say that in stead of everyone looking up to see the eagles coming, everyone looks up to a huge flash of light. Everyone thinks that is a wizard-like thing to do, but no one understands. Then, completely unexpectedly, they all see Radagast the Brown riding on Gwaihir to save the day! Then Radagast comes down and fights beside Gandalf in the most dramatic display of wizard-power ever seen, with two of them fighting side by side as one.

Does the thought of that happening warm anyone elses heart besides mine?? Come on, i think Radagast has the potential to be awesome, and I regret the size of his part in the LotR. Does anyone agree?


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## JOSHUASIGEP44 (Dec 19, 2003)

First of all my opinion on Radagast -

I used to think of Radagast as an example of how much the Valar loved all of Eru's creations. That he was sent to ME strictly to look after animals and such. That he had a control over them like Gandalf (thru inspiration) and Saruman (thru his voice) had over men. After all it was Radagast that sent the eagle to rescue Gandalf from Orthanc. Upon further thought I think he became to involved with his works and staid behind. It is my belief he staid for the purpose to watch over ME for a while longer. Don't forget Cirdan the ship right had not taken ship yet either. At the beging of the Fourth age there are still of couple of people left in ME that born in the First age or before.


Side Note: When Saruman is stripped of his staff and color Gandalf takes his place. Well, does that mean Radagast became Radagast the Gray? I only say this because Gandalf took Sarumans place.


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## Flammifer (Dec 19, 2003)

That's a really good question, JOSH. It would be my opinion (I can't back it up with quotes) that Radagast remained Brown. I say this because a wizard does not simply start wearing a different colour to become a more powerful wizard. Gandalf the Grey died, and Gandalf the White came back. He was _reborn_ as White, he didn't just say to the Elves, "Hey give me some white to wear, I wanna be more powerful!"



> Hmmm... I thought you were all like Steve Irvin.... or possibly Crocodile Dundee.



Precisely my point! This is what people think of us! It's simply not true! (Not to say that we don't have a _little bit_ in us - we still have Aussie pride, but we're not all like Steve Irwin.)

(PS void all the previous paragraph if what you said was a joke, Hurin)



> Does the thought of that happening warm anyone elses heart besides mine?? Come on, i think Radagast has the potential to be awesome, and I regret the size of his part in the LotR. Does anyone agree?



I love your scenario, redline! I think that would have been really really cool!


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## HLGStrider (Dec 19, 2003)

I don't think it would be great: Too many wizards, like too many warrior-girls, and it gets crowded. There was only room for Gandalf.


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## redline2200 (Dec 20, 2003)

(j/k)
How can you say there would be too many when there would only be two? I think Radagast saving the day is awesome myself, but oh well, everyone has their own opinion. Good Day!


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## HLGStrider (Dec 20, 2003)

It's night. I insist you call it night! You can't fool me! I see your location! It's night there two!
NIGHT NIGHT NIGHT NIGHT NIGHT

GOOD NIGHT!

The same way I say it is too much to have both Arwen and Eowyn fighting as my justification for not liking that edition in the movie. One warrior princess is enough. That's only two.

It would've been confusing. You would've had to explain how he got there. Explain exactly who he was (you can get away with a mention and basically no characterization with the part he has now) and people would need to know what he did afterwards, etc.

As a plot device, it wouldn't work. This is speaking as a writer. It might be doable, but it is better with one very powerful wizard. Less distracting that way too.


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## Úlairi (Dec 20, 2003)

Flammifer, I know what you mean. I still think the Yankees think we have kangaroos hopping down the streets of Sydney! One thing that really ticked me off when I was on here a couple of years ago, before I was banned. There was a very large political debate, as I recall, and suddenly evolution became an inherent part of the topic. As I am a Traditionalist Catholic, I argued very strongly against it. Then, some ignoramus comes into the thread, and puts this question to me: "Do they teach evolution in Australia?" I really let that person have it, in my original style, which some know just ain't nice. The ignoramus crumbled in an instant. Man, it even gives me the sh*ts thinking about it!


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## Saermegil (Dec 20, 2003)

I agree with elgee. i think Radagast being a hero just like Gandalf, appering just when you need him just like Gandalf would be too much. it would diminish Gandalf's role. Also I like Radagast being good but not that-kind-of-good. It ads a bit of grey in a largely black and white kind of story.


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## Úlairi (Dec 20, 2003)

Ah! But we like the Grey!  Or is it white?


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## Lantarion (Dec 20, 2003)

Haha, oh how we love puns around here.. 

But I would agree with Elgee's 'treeishness'-theory. Think about it: Yavanna sent Aiwendil mostly for the purpose of looking after the living things of Middle-earth not yet under Sauron's heel. But he is said to have "forsaken his quest", so he must have been sent with the partial explanation (excuse?) of helping the Free People against Sauron, which quest he did not actively undertake (as it wasn't his actual quest in the first place).
So, after Sauron is overthrown there is no need for Aiwendil to actively work for the good of all _olvar_ and _kelvar_, but he rather becomes as one of them, thus 'fulfilling' his purpose by blending with the very natural texture of Middle-earth.


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## Úlairi (Dec 21, 2003)

Perhaps, but I believe that explanation I offered may have been a little more accurate, as it was derived from the texts. I will always believe that eventually Aiwendil returned to Valinor and sat down and had a nice chat with Yavanna about all that he'd discovered, for that may have been the reason he was sent in the first place!


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## HLGStrider (Aug 24, 2004)

I think at this point Radagast has already become clueless and ineffective. He is easily duped by good old Sarumen and sent on his way and seems in quite a hurry to get back home to check on his pet trees. 

I always figured that the fellow ended up sleeping his life away in the forest somewhere, eventually becoming a Rip Van Winkle-ish character with a LOT of moss in his beard.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 30, 2004)

Aragorn states the only a few-Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn and Gandalf could fail to be duped by Saruman. I don't think Radagast was foolish-perhaps, since the message seemed to be in good faith, anybody would have suspected Saruman of perfidy, despite the fact that they did suspect him of something. Plus, Radagast was the master in his own field, just like Gandalf was the master in his. Radagast loved and aided the trees and beasts, and I am sure he helped them a lot, even if his help went, by and large, unappreciated, and was needless in the eyes of many. Some would say that he was wasting his talents-but if he was using his talents in the field in which he was most talented then surely his dealing with the birds and beasts etc. of Middle-Earth was not such a bad idea?


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## HLGStrider (Aug 31, 2004)

My question would be, using them for what? You get the picture of him making friends with woodland creatures, but it never mentions him aiding them in fighting the darkness or protecting them from such.

I could accept that he'd been sent as an "ambassador to the trees and animals" if he'd actually been seen doing something of the like. Trees and animals were obviously hurt by Sauron's rule as well. . .but we don't directly see him doing anything to protect them.


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## Arthur_Vandelay (Aug 31, 2004)

HLGStrider said:


> My question would be, using them for what? You get the picture of him making friends with woodland creatures, but it never mentions him aiding them in fighting the darkness or protecting them from such.
> 
> I could accept that he'd been sent as an "ambassador to the trees and animals" if he'd actually been seen doing something of the like. Trees and animals were obviously hurt by Sauron's rule as well. . .but we don't directly see him doing anything to protect them.



And what kinds of things can Radagast _do_? Does he wield "power" over the trees and beasts in his care? Or is he a loremaster? Is Radagast to Mirkwood as Tom Bombadil is to the Old Forest/Barrow Downs?


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## HLGStrider (Aug 31, 2004)

Don't look at me. It was Jr who suggested he have talents.

What I was thinking of was leading the animals through guidance away from Sauron, sheltering them somehow. Fighting Orcs for trees when they began hewing. ..something. . .maybe Entish.


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## Arthur_Vandelay (Aug 31, 2004)

HLGStrider said:


> Don't look at me. It was Jr who suggested he have talents.



The questions were meant to be for discussion. No malice intended.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 31, 2004)

Arthur_Vandelay said:


> The questions were meant to be for discussion. No malice intended.


No malice read into it. 
Though I'm still giving it over to Junior. Just because I love to torture him so and it is too late for me to post more than fragments.
Don't post in whole sentences this late at night. Don't don't don't.


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## Arthur_Vandelay (Aug 31, 2004)

HLGStrider said:


> No malice read into it.
> Though I'm still giving it over to Junior. Just because I love to torture him so and it is too late for me to post more than fragments.
> Don't post in whole sentences this late at night. Don't don't don't.



Right. Will keep that in mind.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 31, 2004)

> My question would be, using them for what? You get the picture of him making friends with woodland creatures, but it never mentions him aiding them in fighting the darkness or protecting them from such.



To be honest I don't know. There are a plethora of different stories and adventures which could have taken place in Middle-Earth without us knowing. So there may have been a lot of different cases in which Radagast played an important part in brining about or helping good, add to this the general benefits of him helping the animals and caring for nature. I can only make judgements based on the level of my ignorance, and since we are not told much about good old Radagast I cannot name specifics, and can only turn to vague generalities, based on basic logic. Radagast was a good wizard, therefore it was logical that he helped the birds and beasts of Middle-Earth, just because we don't hear about his day-to-day activities doesn't he mean he did nothing at all. He may have, for example, aided the White Council in their driving out of Sauron from Mirkwood-e did live in the vicinity. Again another example-he resided close to Sauron therefore he most have done some things to counteract the plans of the dark lord, or he must have helped animals, or even Elves, Dwarves and Men out of bad situations.


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## HLGStrider (Sep 2, 2004)

Tonight it is not too late to respond in full sentences so you will be redeemed from reading many fragments.

So we're left with an idea for a three volume novel series and very little more, I suppose. . .

On the other hand, Mirkwood seems to have gone from bad to worse under his watch. 

Of course, we do sort of have to assume (well, we don't, but it seems more logical to assume) that he had something to do with casting the Necromancer out. I just can't see him, a member of the council, being in such proximity to the event without aiding it. . .at least not and still being in good standing with Gandalf which he was at the begining of the War of the Ring. Gandalf trusts him and doesn't seem to roll him eyes at him. 

However, no one thinks to summon Radagast even though he has been in the area of the Shire before and is obviously able to travel there. Legolas could've picked him up on the way.There are many ways in which Radagast could have been successfully, or at least marginally, brought into the story, and instead we are left with naught. 

Only the assumption that he was duped by Sarumen and then went away somewhere in humiliation to host a Discovery Channel Croc show.


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## HLGStrider (Sep 2, 2004)

Arthur_Vandelay said:


> Right. Will keep that in mind.


Just because I think you misunderstood me, not that it is important that you understand what is mainly a flippant post, but I thought I'd clarify that when I say "Don't post in complete sentences." It's not an order. It's an incomplete sentence missing the pronoun I as in "I don't." 
I reserve the right to be unclear after midnight when I got as much sleep as I did the night before I posted that. . .


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## Inderjit S (Sep 2, 2004)

> On the other hand, Mirkwood seems to have gone from bad to worse under his watch.



To be fair, there wasn't much he, or anybody else could do, to stop that.



> However, no one thinks to summon Radagast even though he has been in the area of the Shire before and is obviously able to travel there. Legolas could've picked him up on the way.There are many ways in which Radagast could have been successfully, or at least marginally, brought into the story, and instead we are left with naught.



Actually, they did try to contact him after the council, but he was not at home, well either that or he was stuck in the shower.


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## AustintheGreen (Sep 2, 2004)

Inderjit S said:


> Actually, they did try to contact him after the council, but he was not at home


Where does it say that?


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## Inderjit S (Sep 3, 2004)

> while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden river, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields, and so at length reached the old home of Radagst at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there


 'The Ring Goes South'


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## HLGStrider (Sep 4, 2004)

Thanks, Jr.

That quote just took me back to my first reading, long before I pounced down upon here and began to discuss everything to death.

I remember that one line to me seemed loaded. "Radagast was not there." Pretty simple. No explanation. Left to imagination.

My imagination automatically assumed he'd been done away with.

It just seemed logical that he was not there because he'd fallen to foul play. I need to look on the map. I can't remember where Rhosgobel is right now. . .
Anyway, is THAT a possibility? Could he have been ensnared? Disembodied and not thought of enough importance for the valar to resurect him? It could be that he was withdrawn the way the Elves were and the way Gandalf was but just a little prematurely?


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## Narsil (Sep 4, 2004)

Sounds like Radagast didn't get around much. In _Fellowship_ it describes how he found Gandalf not far from Bree and said to him "All I knew was that you might be found in a wild region with the uncouth name of Shire". He had no idea where or what the Shire was and didn't seem too happy about having to travel far to find Gandalf. 

He then gave Gandalf the message that he needed to go see Saruman. Gandalf told Radagast that his help would be needed and to send out messages about what was happening to the birds and beasts. Radagast did so and as a direct result Gandalf was rescued from the top of Orthanc by Gwaihir the Windlord. 

At the Council of Elrond Gandalf tells everyone that after speaking with him, Radagast rode off to Mirkwood to spread the word. The Eagle came looking for Gandalf to give him a message, found him on top of the tower and rescued him. 

One thing that is apparent is that at no time is Radagast portrayed as evil or in league with evil. Quite the opposite. If anything he comes off as somewhat naive, honest and trusting. 

One can only assume that Radagast did indeed play some part in the War of the Ring. Many did and weren't mentioned in the book. The battles of the Lonely Mountain and Dale, Mirkwood, etc could be a book in itself. Perhaps Radagast helped the Wood Elves or Dwarves at some point. Who knows?


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## William Amos (Sep 4, 2004)

As for radagasts powers it was stated "he was a master of Shapes and hues"

Sort of suggests that he could shape shift and had almost chameleon powers. Also his link with nature "as Saruman states "Radagast the Brown, Radagast the Bird tamer, Radagast the Simpleton, Radagast the fool"
He seems to suggest that Radagast (like Gandalf does later stating "His friendship with animals) could communicate with animals especially birds.

As for his disappearence dunno what to say. I know that soon after the Council of Elrond ended they "Sent out searchers" to find out about the Nazgul and down to the "Secret woods" with news. They also went to Rhosgoebel (which was on the southern border of Mirkwook far to the East of Dul Guldur) and couldnt find him.

The last we know of Radagast was that he fled as "if the Nine were right behind him" after he left Gandalf. I got feeling that like the Blue Wizards Radagast got left behind to "Start a strange cult" most likely the Druids of old England who had an affinity with nature. In the books it never says what becomes of him but I feel that is a possibility.


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## Flame of Udûn (Sep 6, 2004)

William Amos said:


> Rhosgoebel (which was on the southern border of Mirkwook far to the East of Dul Guldur)


Not so.


Unfinished Tales said:


> In a very late note on the names of the Istari Radagast is said to be a name deriving from the Men of the Vales of Anduin, "not now clearly interpretable." Rhosgobel, called "the old home of Radagast" in The Fellowship of the Ring II 3, is said to have been "in the forest between the Carrock and the Old Forest Road."


The map of Wilderland in _The Hobbit_ is the best graph of those parts.


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## HLGStrider (Sep 7, 2004)

So.. . .no one else thinks the poor old chap was done away with?


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