# Embracer Group - Tolkien Spin offs?



## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 14, 2022)

So how does everyone feel about Embracer Group, the latest owners of the IP on making spin off films for Tolkien?

I think one on Aragorn, his years as a ranger, helping Ecthelion, Gondor, and Rohan could be pretty interesting. Aragorn has the most written material for a solo film.

Gandalf may be more tricky as his adventures beyond dealing with the Necromancer in the events of the Hobbit are quite nebulous and not described in great detail.

What do y'all think?

CL



CirdanLinweilin said:


> So how does everyone feel about Embracer Group, the latest owners of the IP on making spin off films for Tolkien?
> 
> I think one on Aragorn, his years as a ranger, helping Ecthelion, Gondor, and Rohan could be pretty interesting. Aragorn has the most written material for a solo film.
> 
> ...


I should add they mentioned this in one of their Press conferences 

CL


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 14, 2022)

I always thought Young Aragorn would be a good subject.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 14, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I always thought Young Aragorn would be a good subject.


He definitely seems to be the most described of the Fellowship, at least in terms of deeds done. I can see how the film can start with his dad's death, then to Elrond telling him his lineage to Aragorn joining the rangers and fighting across Middle-earth.


Aragorn seems like a good fit because you can easily stick to the source material. Gandalf on the other hand....you'd need to invent to fill in the spaces.



CL


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## Ent (Sep 14, 2022)

The way I see this is that there are two (2) great compliments in the world. Copying, and borrowing.
These (usually) mean there is a great liking of the work that is being copied or borrowed. (Of course, this has limits, such as outright plagiarism).

I can think of a few characters and many events it would be nice to see more about...even if and as it requires some 'filling in of the gaps'. MUCH can be made of them from the portrayal of their behaviors and attitudes, their conversation as it reveals their inner character and morals, etc. In addition, there are many hints given about some that make for great grist for the mill. 

It would be nice to see the work done consistent with Tolkien wherever Tolkien is available, and contributive to Tolkien wherever he is not... (rather than antagonistic/contrary to his character development, event portrayal, location/structure/scenery development, etc for example.)

As long as it is "well done", I for one would certainly not have objections. (I do understand "well done" can be defined in various ways...I would like to see it "well done" in ALL the ways one can think of that define the phrase.)


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 14, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> The way I see this is that there are two (2) great compliments in the world. Copying, and borrowing.
> These (usually) mean there is a great liking of the work that is being copied or borrowed. (Of course, this has limits, such as outright plagiarism).
> 
> I can think of a few characters and many events it would be nice to see more about...even if and as it requires some 'filling in of the gaps'. MUCH can be made of them from the portrayal of their behaviors and attitudes, their conversation as it reveals their inner character and morals, etc. In addition, there are many hints given about some that make for great grist for the mill.
> ...


Very good points!!


CL


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## Ent (Sep 14, 2022)

Just think of how much could be done with the Dunedan as they dwindled, and became somewhat a reclusive, 'behind the scenes' watch-force in the world - ultimately Aragorn of course, coming to the fore.

Or the Dwarves going to re-take Moria, ending in catastrophe for the entire group. (Would have a sad ending, but hey... it has its tie-in to the future as well.)

Or, though some suggest Gandalf to be difficult, doing something with the meetings of the Council and their eventually teaming up to drive Sauron from the south of Mirkwood (only to return later).

Or the Elves of Mirkwood and their kingdom altogether... 
Or the events of Smaug taking the Lonely Mountain from the Dwarves, the destruction of Lake Town, and the events following that...

And Beorn and his animals... and the dwindling of his kind 

And the histories of the Hobbits and of their 3 branches, and how they divided as they traveled and came to their settlements - even at different times if I recall correctly - and ultimately settled where they did, making and evolving into their new lives. Think of the challenges, opportunities and such that could be devised. (And who knows, perhaps even carrying it into the fourth age and further, where they diminished due to being hunted for sport. Another sad and tragic ending.) 

There are actually many stories available just from the hints and events in TH and LoTR alone before we even get into the earlier times where possibilities are legion - (and about which some books have been and are about to be produced, that would certainly help in the building of the stories).

I do admit some may think there isn't enough to make stories out of these... (and more)... but well... personally, I don't.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 14, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> Just think of how much could be done with the Dunedan as they dwindled, and became somewhat a reclusive, 'behind the scenes' watch-force in the world - ultimately Aragorn of course, coming to the fore.
> 
> Or the Dwarves going to re-take Moria, ending in catastrophe for the entire group. (Would have a sad ending, but hey... it has its tie-in to the future as well.)
> 
> ...


I love this!!

CL


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## Ent (Sep 14, 2022)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> I love this!!


I could go on, but I refrain... you should see the list of possibilities spinning through my head right now... I may need a sedative..! 😁


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## Halasían (Sep 14, 2022)

I'm all for it. Not only for individual characters, but the people... Rohirrim (*War of the Rohirrim* is an example as it is being made under the licensing of these IP rights), Easterlings, Haradians, Arnorians... In fact, if they are going to mine the appendices, they could do a whole mini-series on the Fall of Arthedain... yes, so many possibilities.... so many opportunities for those who dedicate their lives hating on anything other than their interpretation of what J.R.R. Tolkien himself penned to cry about. 😅


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## Eljorahir (Sep 15, 2022)

I'll watch any spin-off as long as it depicts Bullroarer Took inventing the game of Golf.


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## Goldilocks Gamgee (Sep 15, 2022)

I think something focused on Feanor, Finarfin and Fingolfin could be good. But it would be very hard to adapt and controversial. But interesting!


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## Olorgando (Sep 16, 2022)

Goldilocks Gamgee said:


> I think something focused on Feanor, Finarfin and Fingolfin could be good. But it would be very hard to adapt and controversial. But interesting!


Depicting that cast of characters would make filming LoTR look like a piece of cake. With a clear danger of straying too far into soap opera / telenovela territory.

But they don't have the rights for any Silmarillion material. It's the same ol' LoTR and TH stuff that everyone from Ralph Bakshi to Amazon has had.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 16, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> But they don't have the rights for any Silmarillion material. It's the same ol' LoTR and TH stuff that everyone from Ralph Bakshi to Amazon has had.


Which is why I suggested a film on Aragorn.

CL


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 16, 2022)

Yup. His story is in the appendices. Some great adventures waiting in there.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 16, 2022)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> So how does everyone feel about Embracer Group, the latest owners of the IP on making spin off films for Tolkien?


It can't be worse than Rings of Power.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 16, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Yup. His story is in the appendices. Some great adventures waiting in there.
> View attachment 15817


Cirion and Eorl would be a cool movie to watch.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Sep 16, 2022)

I'd want to see more of the lands east of Mordor, maybe what the Ithryn Luin were up to, what happened to them, etc.

Another one I'd want to see is more of the other dwarf clans out there that weren't involved in the LOTR stories. For example, the Ironfists don't appear in any stories at all. What were they up to? Same with the Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots. I think that the Broadbeams and Firebeards were possibly in Khazad Dum, Belegost and Nogrod, so they appear a little bit but they'd still be interesting to learn more aboutl


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 16, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Cirion and Eorl would be a cool movie to watch.


I agree. Though Tolkien's failure to get back to the Field of Celebrant is a painful lacuna -- at least for me. 😭


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 16, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I'd want to see more of the lands east of Mordor, maybe what the Ithryn Luin were up to, what happened to them, etc.
> 
> Another one I'd want to see is more of the other dwarf clans out there that weren't involved in the LOTR stories. For example, the Ironfists don't appear in any stories at all. What were they up to? Same with the Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots. I think that the Broadbeams and Firebeards were possibly in Khazad Dum, Belegost and Nogrod, so they appear a little bit but they'd still be interesting to learn more aboutl


Sauron's assault on Erebor. Sauron's Assault on Mirkwood. Sauron's assault on Lothlorien. Maybe as a single episode. They could do a Tales of Middle-Earth show.


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## finarvyn (Sep 18, 2022)

What I imagine somehow is an "Adventures of Young Bilbo" series where, in spite of the fact that Bilbo never had adventures prior to those in The Hobbit, the creators would fill up episode after episode of Bilbo doing all sorts of amazing and unrealistic things that make The Hobbit look tame. Totally throw away any attempt to follow canon and make Bilbo into some sort of Indiana Jones style burglar of fantastic treasures. It would be a terrible mockery of anything legitimately Tolkien, but I probably would end up watching it anyway.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 18, 2022)

You're joking, of course, but we do have canon sources for adventures in Bilbo's family, at least: Isengar, one of his Took uncles, is "_said to have 'gone to sea' in his youth_". Another, Hildifons, "_went off on a journey and never returned _". In fact, Tolkien had in mind that the hobbit Ranger Trotter would turn out to be that uncle, which is why Bingo/Frodo had the feeling he'd met him before. 

In any event, those two provide plenty of scope for adventures-- in addition to explaining Bilbo's reluctance to go on them.


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## Ent (Sep 18, 2022)

Or... "fill up episode after episode of Bilbo doing all sorts of nothing but eating, smoking, looking out his window, and avoiding the Sackville-Bagginses on his walks." 

Now THAT's a prequel to _The Hobbit_ that a more or less unhasty Ent like myself could get into..!!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 18, 2022)

Nah, I want something that doesn't essentially describe my life. 😀


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## Olorgando (Sep 18, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> You're joking, of course, but we do have canon sources for adventures in Bilbo's family, at least: Isengar, one of his Took uncles, is "_said to have 'gone to sea' in his youth_". Another, Hildifons, "_went off on a journey and never returned _". In fact, Tolkien had in mind that the hobbit Ranger Trotter would turn out to be that uncle, which is why Bingo/Frodo had the feeling he'd met him before.
> In any event, those two provide plenty of scope for adventures-- in addition to explaining Bilbo's reluctance to go on them.


I somehow doubt seriously that a truly Hobbit-centric film will ever be made. People - or maybe just the trolls at the studios - have anything to do with that "Middle-earth stuff" firmly wedged in the "blockbuster" drawer. Hobbits just aren't "blockbuster" material.

Just think of the films that even had them in the title! But practically all the padding PJ stuffed his trilogy with to bring it up to a running time not too far below the LoTR cinematic versions had nothing to do with the title character! It had all to do with generic "blockbuster" "must-haves", or perhaps "wanna-haves" (here I'm thinking of three-year-olds in a sandbox having temper tantrums with their plastic shovels ... 😈 )


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 18, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> I somehow doubt seriously that a truly Hobbit-centric film will ever be made. People - or maybe just the trolls at the studios - have anything to do with that "Middle-earth stuff" firmly wedged in the "blockbuster" drawer. Hobbits just aren't "blockbuster" material.
> 
> Just think of the films that even had them in the title! But practically all the padding PJ stuffed his trilogy with to bring it up to a running time not too far below the LoTR cinematic versions had nothing to do with the title character! It had all to do with generic "blockbuster" "must-haves", or perhaps "wanna-haves" (here I'm thinking of three-year-olds in a sandbox having temper tantrums with their plastic shovels ... 😈 )


I hate to say it but you are very much right.


CL


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 18, 2022)

Oh, sure -- Tolkien was griping about the lack of "hobbito-centric" focus back in the 50s. My theory is that PJ looked at all his complaints, and said "We have to do all these!".

But we're talking about wishes here, not (probable) reality.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 18, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Oh, sure -- Tolkien was griping about the lack of "hobbito-centric" focus back in the 50s. My theory is that PJ looked at all his complaints, and said "We have to do all these!".
> 
> But we're talking about wishes here, not (probable) reality.


A miniseries on the Shire during the war of the ring from Frodo's departure to the Scouring would be pretty cool to watch.


CL


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 18, 2022)

Sounds pretty dreary, but Fatty Bolger and his Robin Hood gang could be interesting.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 18, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Sounds pretty dreary, but Fatty Bolger and his Robin Hood gang could be interesting.


It's just one idea of a hobbit-centric show/film that I think could work.




CL


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## Olorgando (Sep 18, 2022)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> A miniseries on the Shire during the war of the ring from Frodo's departure to the Scouring would be pretty cool to watch.
> CL





Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Sounds pretty dreary, but Fatty Bolger and his Robin Hood gang could be interesting.


And the "must-have" climactic battle would be that at Bywater! 😛
...
...
Granted, compared to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and the Battle of Five Armies it lacks bombast ... 😬


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 18, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> And the "must-have" climactic battle would be that at Bywater! 😛
> ...
> ...
> Granted, compared to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and the Battle of Five Armies it lacks bombast ... 😬


Yet has all the rugged, "underdog-ness" of the little guy against the oppressor! A sentiment I think would hook Americans. 


CL


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 18, 2022)

It should have been in the movie.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 18, 2022)

We could have a show about the Hobbit fight against Golfimbul.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 18, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> We could have a show about the Hobbit fight against Golfimbul.


A prequel to the prequel!

CL


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 19, 2022)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> A prequel to the prequel!
> 
> CL


You can't tell me there wouldn't be a story to make there. I know it ACTUALLY was only one battle but even I've written an RPG campaign around it (where I also combined it with the white wolf invasion after the Fell Winter).


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