# Was Elrond High-Elven?



## childoferu (Jul 31, 2009)

Why is Elrond treated as High-Elven, he never travelled to the blessed until the end of the War of the Ring

Take a look at this passage from _Many Meetings_


> 'Yes, at present, until all else is conquered. The Elves may fear the Dark Lord, and they may fly before him, but never again will they listen to him or serve him. And here in Rivendell live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of tte Eldar from beyond the *furthest seas*. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the *Blessed* *Realm* live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and hee Unseen they have great power.'


 
We can assume that the Elven-Wise includes Elrond, but like I said earlier, he hadn't previously lived in Aman, so, huh?


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## Illuin (Aug 1, 2009)

> Originally posted by *childoferu*
> _Why is Elrond treated as High-Elven_


 
I would say Elrond was _'above'_ High-Elven. He had strain of _*Maia*_ in his blood; a noble line of _*Men*_ _(Tuor, Huor, Hador)_; and his great, great, great grandparents (of the *Elves*) were _Finwë_ and _Indis_ (well bred ). Here's a quote from _*The Silmarillion*:_ 



> _*"Yet not all the Eldalie were willing to forsake the Hither Lands where they had long suffered and long dwelt; and some lingered many an age in Middle-earth. Among those were Cirdan the Shipwright, and Celeborn of Doriath, with Galadriel his wife, who alone remained of those who led the Noldor to exile in Beleriand. *_
> 
> _*In Middle-earth dwelt also Gil-galad the High King, and with him was Elrond Half-elven, who chose, as was granted to him, to be numbered among the Eldar; but Elros his brother chose to abide with Men. And from these brethren alone has come among Men the blood of the Firstborn and a strain of the spirits divine that were before Arda; for they were the sons of Elwing, Dior's daughter, Luthien's son, child of Thingol and Melian; and Earendil their father was the son of Idril Celebrindal, Turgon's daughter of Gondolin" *_
> 
> _*Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath - Chapter 24*_


 
Elrond was 56.25% *Elf*, 37.5% *Man*, and 6.25% *Maia*.


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## Withywindle (Aug 3, 2009)

Elrond was a lord of the Eldar as his descendency, or genetic inheritance makes clear (thanks to Iluin for the computation of his geneome!). He was not, however, Quendi as indeed he had not been nutured in Valinor in the time of the Two Trees.

In the passage cited by CoE, I don´t think Elrond refers to himself, but rather to the small group of Exiles in his Household - Glorfindel, Gildor, and perhaps Erestor. (Incidentally, there can have been few original Exiles as we know Elrond sent out only three elves - North, South and West to try to meet up with Frodo, and he sent those who could "ride openly against the Nine"). Elrond clearly did not see himself as having the inner force to resist the Nazgul.

Furthermore, when chosing the Fellowship, Gandalf explains that it would be useless to send elves of power in the company as "even an Elf-lord such as Glorfindel could not storm the Dark Tower by the power he has within him". Clearly then a fundamental distinction is made both by Gandalf and by Elrond himself between whatever powers Elrond might have, and the power possessed by the exiled Quendi.

Elrond was Eldar, he was Elven-wise, and he held a great power within his domain thanks to his Ring; but, however great his descendency, he was not on a par with the Quendi such as Galadriel, as they held a power that only the light of the Two Trees could imbue.


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## childoferu (Aug 3, 2009)

Withywindle said:


> Elrond was a lord of the Eldar as his descendency, or genetic inheritance makes clear (thanks to Iluin for the computation of his geneome!). He was not, however, Quendi as indeed he had not been nutured in Valinor in the time of the Two Trees.
> 
> In the passage cited by CoE, I don´t think Elrond refers to himself, but rather to the small group of Exiles in his Household - Glorfindel, Gildor, and perhaps Erestor. (Incidentally, there can have been few original Exiles as we know Elrond sent out only three elves - North, South and West to try to meet up with Frodo, and he sent those who could "ride openly against the Nine"). Elrond clearly did not see himself as having the inner force to resist the Nazgul.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, ok, thank you Withywindle, so hmm...what category could could we Classify Elrond, I'm thinking Laiquendi or Umanyar, or just a non-high Noldo


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## Illuin (Aug 3, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Withywindle*
> _thanks to Illuin for the computation of his geneome!)._


 
I don't get the credit for that, that was from _"The Thain's Book"_ website. Should have referenced that before. 

Check out the site - highly recommended:

http://www.tuckborough.net/


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## Withywindle (Aug 4, 2009)

I know The Hobbit is not the best guide in these matters, but I was just glancing at the description of Elrond given there which is, after all, the first time we meet him, and must reflect Tolkien's idea of him at that time.

He is described as *"an elf-friend"; "as noble and fair of face as an elf-lord" *(The Hobbit ch. 3). In this Tolkien clearly shows that he didn´t think of him as one of the Eldar at all, but more as a king of men who was immortal.


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