# hobbits



## arisen pheonix (May 4, 2002)

the origins of hobbits have never realy been explained but i think they were across between petty dwarves and dwarves. feasable? yes? no?


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## Hirila (May 4, 2002)

I can't tell from what origin Hobbits are. 
If I remember it correctly, I think that Tolkien himself said something about their origin not being clear in the foreword to the LotR. 

I know they first lived east of the Misty Mountains between them and the river Anduin. That's where Gollum / Smeagol comes from. But how they came there? Sorry, can't remember, that is don't know.


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## Beorn (May 4, 2002)

nope:

They are thought to be descended from Men:



> In the middle of [the third] Age the Hobbits appear. their origin is unknown (even to themselves)* for they escaped notice of the great, or the civilized peoples with records, and kept none themselves, save vague oral traditions, until they had migrated from the borders of Mirkwood, fleeing from the Shadow, and wandered westward, coming into contact with the last remnants of the Kingdom of Arnor.
> 
> * The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically _human_ race (*not being* Elves or *Dwarves*)--hence the two kinds can dwell together (as at Bree), and are called just the Big Folk and the Little Folk. They are entirely without non-human powers, but are represented as being more in touch with 'nature' (the soil and other living things, plants and animals), and abnormally, for humans, free from ambition or greed of wealth. They are made _small_ (little more than half human stature, but dwindling as the years pass) partly to exhibit the pettiness of man, plain unimaginative parochial man - though not with either the smallness or savageness of Swift, and mostly to show up, in creatures of very smal lphysical power, the amazing and unexpected heroism or ordinary men 'at a pinch'.



Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien # 131 (near the end)


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## tom_bombadil (May 5, 2002)

there most likely to be distant relatives of men


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## Lantarion (May 5, 2002)

I remember reading something about Hobbits being the descendants of the Men of the Vales of Anduin specifically. So would that mean that Hobbits are related to the Rohirrim, who lived there before migrating to Calenardhon (Rohan)? That might explain their languages being so close (even though the only related sample we are given is Roh. _Kûd-dûkan_, and Hob. _Kuduk_; both meaning the same thing, 'hole-dweller').
Interesting, nonetheless.


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## YayGollum (May 5, 2002)

Nope. elves became orcs, goblins are smaller orcs, hobgoblins are smaller goblins, and hobbits are hobgoblins that became good. Makes sense, doesn't it? By the way, AP, I'm coming to visit you!


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## Niniel (May 6, 2002)

About the Stoors (Gollum's family) it is said in the Appendices that they lived originally in the Shire with the other hobbits, but that they moved over the Misty Mountains when the Shire was under attack from Angmar and there was a plague.


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## Cian (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by YayGollum _
> Nope. elves became orcs, ...



Actually in his latest writings on the subject JRRT seemed to be leaning towards Men as 'stock' (though not without complication).



> ... goblins are smaller orcs, hobgoblins are smaller goblins, and hobbits are hobgoblins that became good. Makes sense, doesn't it?



In Tolkien's mythos goblins are orcs, and "hobgoblins" refers to the larger kinds. Hobbits are a diminutive branch of the human race, as already posted by Beorn from JRRT. 

The word _hobbit_ has to do with _holbytla_ not hobgoblin.


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## Cian (May 6, 2002)

Re language: in ancient days the Hobbits were said to have always used the languages of Men of whom they lived among or near. Their former language (before adopting the Common Speech) was a Mannish language akin to that of the Rohirrim (the Stoors adopting a lang related to Dunlendish before they migrated north to the Shire).


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## YayGollum (May 6, 2002)

Ummm...Cian, I was just messing around. It was just another one of my crazy theories that makes no sense. Ignore me.


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## arisen pheonix (May 6, 2002)

but if you think about it i mean petty dwarves are elves that are shorter than dwarves so we have the shortness and their love of the outdoors and the "quite, everyday" sort of magic that makes them hard to spot and from the dwarves their love of being close to the ground and hardiness


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## Gamil Zirak (May 6, 2002)

Petty dwarves are not elves. They were outcast dwarves. They had all of the same characteristics as dwarves not elves.


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## arisen pheonix (May 6, 2002)

*NO NO NO NO............*

please i did read al of this before posting my hypothesis i know somewhat what i am saying unlike normally....and de caprio is butt ugly


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## Cian (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by YayGollum _
> Ummm...Cian, I was just messing around. It was just another one of my crazy theories that makes no sense. Ignore me.



Well, I thought you might be messing around, but just in case ...  cheers


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