# Barrow- wights



## Aulë (Dec 29, 2002)

*Barrow Wights*

Could someone please explain what Barrow Wight's are, and their origin?
It's the one part of the trilogy that I don't understand too well


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## Araheru (Dec 29, 2002)

I also had trouble understanding that part of FotR. I couldn't quite picture what they looked like, what they lived in, or even what the Barrow Downs looked like.


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## chrome_rocknave (Dec 29, 2002)

I realize that I'm probably completely wrong in the way I pictured the Barrow-Wights but....

I imagined them as druid like creatures...almost witch-like. I'm not completely sure if they were alive or dead...or something in between, but they were most definitely worshippers or followers of Sauron.

pg. 178 FoTR: Incantation by Barrow Wights: "till the dark lord lifts his hand"

Now, I believe them to be men because Merry says, "Of course I remember. The *men* of Carn Dum came on us at night..."

So my deduction on the matter is that they were evil men, followers of Sauron, who were some sort of druid-ish priests.

Now, what does everyone else think?


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## Anamatar IV (Dec 29, 2002)

Funny. I always thought they were the dead spirits of Westernese men who the Witch-king killed.

Maybe the Numenorean swords that the hobbits had tipped it off.


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 29, 2002)

The barrow downs is a burial place for men of the North long ago in middle earth. It was thier custom that they lay sacrifices in tombs, and chained them down, and put swords on them before they are sacrificed. 

Barrow weights are the "Undertakers" or the pepole that perform these ceremonies.

Luckily ol' Bombadil saved them. Try going to http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

and look it up. It will be much more detailed


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## Mithlond (Dec 30, 2002)

> Barrow weights are the "Undertakers" or the pepole that perform these ceremonies.


So....what exactly are you saying? That these _undertakers_ lived extemely long lives and were evil by nature?

I've always assumed the wights were re-animated corpses of the buried kings of the north. _Why_ they were evil i wasn't sure of though, but the Encyclopedia of Arda stats that evil spirts unleashed from Angmar came to dwell in the barrows, which leads me to believe these evil spirits entered the barrows and animated the bodies of the dead kings.


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## Lantarion (Dec 30, 2002)

Unless I've misunderstood (which, quite frankly, is impossible ), the Barow-Wights were the buried royalty of Arnor. The Witch-king of Angmar supposedly reanimated their corpses when he arose in the north of Eriador. And when he was expelled, the Barrow-wights fled into their dank holes.
Welcome to the forum, Pippin_Took and Araheru!


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## Dwimmerlaik (Dec 30, 2002)

Yes Lantarion,you're dead wrong.
Wright's are just daggy old spirit's as yet unnamed,to call them them spirits would be a misdeed and even an untruth.
But why,why do you assume that the minor king's of old,would desecrate their own tombs and lay in wait for new victims?
The Barrow wrights are merely evil creatures that have overtaken the tomb's of great king's of old.Minor they may have been,but in the scheme of things a great thorn in the side of the Witch King of Angmar.


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## Dwimmerlaik (Dec 30, 2002)

What is this encyclopedia of Arda?
Do you really need it?
Does it really matter wether Bilbo wore gold buttons on his waist coat?Or whether Gimli consented to Theoden's shield?
It's not in a book,not least of all in a movie.
Could it be imagination?
Let's not forget that,although definition of detail can provide use.
Can running upon grass under the sun be adequately be described in either verse or word be splendour enough to complete a minor descrption of a larger sequence?
Itself part of a larger sequence and thus part of a whole.
Does the Author of Arda leave no room for imagination and(lest no-one imagineof an invention outside the realm of our reality?


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## chrome_rocknave (Dec 31, 2002)

So are they spirits or men? Merry distinctly calls them "men" and I was under the impression that they were evil men...of course I was also under the impression that the "hand" that was reaching for them in the Barrow was just a hand...as in Addams Family type hand... Anyways, where are you getting the info about them being spirits? Could someone post a quote?


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## mrichy555 (Dec 31, 2002)

well wights by my understanding are always undead, such as spirits, so id assume that barrow wights would be something similiar


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## morello13 (Dec 31, 2002)

in the atlas of middle earth it says during the war with agnmar the men were drawn bakc to the barowdowns the burial place of dunedain


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## Mithlond (Dec 31, 2002)

Merry said "men" because the wights may have made themselves look like men, or they had taken the bodies of dead "men"(which is what i believe) and used them to cause mischief in the physical world. 
Ofcourse they would have been skeleton's, but im sure they would have been clothed in armour or cloaks or something, in the same manor of clothing as when the men were buried in the tombs.


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## Lantarion (Jan 1, 2003)

Dwimmerlaik, give me a single shred of evidence to back up your case and I will admit to being 'wrong'. 
Here is the passage where Merry calls the Wights 'men':


> "Of course, I remember," he said. "The men of Carn Dûm came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah! The spear in my heart!" He clutched at his breast. "No, no!" he said, opening his eyes. "What am I saying? I have been dreaming. Where did you get to Frodo?"


So I'd say that it was probably an event from the past that Mery had somehow relived or imagined; why, that I don't know. But the Wights were presumably Men at some point, yes.


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## Aulë (Jan 1, 2003)

So much uncertaincy.....

How I wish that Tolkien was still alive....


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## Ancalagon (Jan 1, 2003)

Pippin, you can read an excellent thread on the subject here and for the record, I am working on an essay dealing with the very subject matter here.


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## Aulë (Jan 1, 2003)

Hmmm, I don't know whether I am wiser or more confused, but thank you anyway Ancalagon.

Another question for this topic: Since Tom Bombadil seemed to have the "power" to remove the wights from the barrows, why did he not just "clean up" the downs and get rid of all the wights?
Were there too many of them? Or was Tom just lazy?


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## Ancalagon (Jan 1, 2003)

I don't think Tom was in the business of actively seeking to destroy Wights, or other creatures of evil, unless the need arose, even if they were within his own borders! I think the fact that they held no fear or threat to him, Goldberry or his lands, he would simply not bother with them.

I suppose the same could be said of Old Man Willow, should Tom have uprooted him and done away with him altogether? One must consider also that these Barrows were graves of great Kings long dead, surely Tom would not desire to open tombs unless (as was the case here) it was a matter of life or death.


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## Dwimmerlaik (Jan 2, 2003)

Lantarion,
In the face of your deposition,I can only claim an interpretation that was obviously not open to all reader's.
No,I cannot give you a shred of evidence to support my assumption,other than a firm background in English literature and history,even this is not "proof".
However,I do agree in part with your assesment of Merric's report,bar the assumption that the wights involved in our story were once men.

Now that I have admitted my response may be wrong,by method of interpretation,would you do me the same courtesy by literally confirming your version of event's.


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## Mischievious Merry (Feb 2, 2003)

YET ANOTHER of my silly questions!!! 
Who and what were the Barrow- wights ? 
Mischievious Merry


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 2, 2003)

The Barrow Wights were once Men of the Northern Kingdom who died in the Battles with Angmar. Then the Witch-king of Angmar animated their bodies and left them there to haunt passengers.


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## Mischievious Merry (Feb 2, 2003)

Ok thanks for the quick answer! That's very intersting to know.


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## Mischievious Merry (Feb 2, 2003)

What can you tell me about the Witch - king of Angmar?
I know I need to get the books, but I am saving up. But in the mean time I can bug you guys with my rather stupid questions. 
Mischievious Merry


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## FoolOfATook (Feb 2, 2003)

Merry- not that we mind answering your questions, but here are a few websites that might help answer any queries you have about Middle-earth in more detail than we usually do. 

The Encyclopedia Of Arda 
The Tolkien Meta-FAQ 
The Greenbooks Q&A


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## balrog (Feb 4, 2003)

great sites!


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## redline2200 (Feb 4, 2003)

What exactly are you referring to when you say "the northern kingdom"? Arnor? And what battle did they fight in that they died? anything commonly known? (like the war of wrath or the last alliance) thanks ahead.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 4, 2003)

Redline, there's much to be read on this matter in Appendix A of the LOTR.

Tom Bombadil tells the Hobbits the following:



> 'Old knives are long enough as swords for hobbit-people,' he said.
> 'Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, or far away into dark and danger.' Then he told them that these blades were forged many long years ago by Men of Westernesse: they were foes of the Dark Lord, but they were overcome by the evil king of Carn Dûm in the Land of Angmar.
> 'Few now remember them,' Tom murmured, 'yet still some go
> wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding
> from evil things folk that are heedless.'


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## Turin (Feb 4, 2003)

Thats pretty cool I read all the appendices but I must have missed it.


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