# Merry or Pippin: who had the greater impact



## Anamatar IV (Dec 23, 2002)

*The greater impact*



> I shall have to brush up my toes if I am to catch up with you, cousin Took.



Lets break it down among merry and Pippin:

Pippin was obviously the factor in escaping the Uruk-Hai...meaning he basically destroyed isengard.

Merry helped slay the witch-king...a deed that can't be matched unless someone cut the ring from saurons hand or something.

But Pippin saved beregond's life by slaying a troll.

So who had the greater impact? Im following Beorn's example

1 if Pippin had a greater impact

3 if Merry.


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## Confusticated (Dec 23, 2002)

Pippin it is, if I were forced by some cruel poll to choose 
Though Pippin may have taken different actions if not for Merry, in specific his insisting to go along to Morannon with the decoy crew.

I pick Pippin because he has more actions that have bigger impacts.

As for what would have come to happen if Merry hadn't been there to knife the Witc King... it could really go any way that you can imagine.
Eowyn may be killed, and many others after her... maybe then at last Gandalf would return to deal with the Witch King.

Maybe by the greater power that was at work Gandalf would not have been pulled away by Pippin to take care of Denethor... who knows.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 23, 2002)

I agree with Nym that Pippin had greater impact although he was clumsier than Merry,but that is just a personal view


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## Maeglin (Dec 23, 2002)

On the whole Pippin had the greater impact, for both bad and good that is. But if I had to pick just impact for good things that happened, I'd have to pick Merry. Anamatar you say that Pippin was basically responsible for destroying Isengard, I have to disagree with that. If you mean to say that because he escaped from the Uruk-hai he is responsible, I doubt it. Remember that Gandalf the white was watching him and Merry in the woods when they were with Treebeard, so I highly doubt that he would have just let the orcs take Merry and Pippin to Isengard, they would have escaped either way, and if Gandalf didn't do something, some of the Ents would, so there escape was guaranteed. And if you are giving him credit for rising up the Ents, if he didn't do it, again, Gandalf would have while he was in Fangorn. But anyway, on the whole Pippin had a greater impact, he did more stupid things that had a much bigger impact on the story than Merry's slaying of the Witch-king (which was more or less his only great role in the war).


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## Niniel (Dec 24, 2002)

I completely agree, so I would have to say Pippin.


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## Anamatar IV (Dec 24, 2002)

Gandalf was out of Fangorn by the time the ents were roused and he did not re enter.

And also what stupid things _did_ Pippin do? Aside from the pebble in Moria that is.


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## Maeglin (Dec 24, 2002)

He looked into the Palantir.


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 24, 2002)

Young Meriadoc obviously had a much greater impact! Sauramon is weak, and who cares of Isengard! Now if Meriadoc is great enough to slay me! The greatest force in middle earth besides Sauron the Great himself! This hobbit is obviously stronger. I was held higher in Saurons ranks than Sauramon the puppet, and whoever can slay me, deserves not 1, but 3 votes! 3 for the number of cries it took me to destroy the gates of Gondor!

*Just getting into character*


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## Confusticated (Dec 24, 2002)

Those foolish acts byPippin had positive effects.

Gandalf the White (perhaps)
Prevented Gandalf looking into the Palantir.


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## Maeglin (Dec 24, 2002)

Morgulking the greatest force in Middle-Earth besides Sauron is Gandalf the White, not the Witch-king of Angmar. And what do you mean who cares about Isengard?! If it hadn't been ruined everyone in middle-earth would fall much sooner, the battle of Helm's Deep may have been lost, bringing no aid to Gondor, in which case by the time Frodo destroyed the ring it wouldn't matter anymore because everyone would be dead, even if Sauron would die too. And you say Saruman is weak? I think not, he was able to manipulate both men and orcs, who before would not have listened to him because they considered him an enemy since he wasn't evil, and he created a whole new, more powerful breed of orc, I really don't think thats weak at all.


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## Elendur (Dec 24, 2002)

The two you cannot seperate. Without one you would not have the other. Hence my vote is the classic "I'm sitting on the fence" vote. Both are equal.

BTW
Pippin saved Faramir
Merry slew the ruffian leader
Pippin saved Merry (found him and took him to the houses of healing)


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## Rúmil (Dec 24, 2002)

I think that Pippin was most important not so much for what happened at Isengard (I would say that Merry and Pippin are both as responsible for what happened there) but for a/ looking into the Palantir and b/saving Faramir. But nonetheless, as for a/ it was involuntarily that he saved Gandalf from revealing himself to Sauron, so it sort of doesn't count, and b/ even if Faramir had died, it wouldn't really have changed the issue of the war.

If the Witch King hadn't died, though, maybe the success of Pelennor would have been otherwise, and Gondor having fallen, because the people would have been too terrified to defend themselves, and thus Sauron would have been able to concentrate more over the defence of his own realm, and maybe found Frodo and Sam. But then, Gandalf might have killed the Witch King, and then again maybe not. (the contest at the Gate seems pretty much in the WK's favour until the horns of the Rohirrim are sounded.) Moot point anyway.

If you compute only deeds in arms, by all means Merry wins. But it's extremely hard to choose for general importance. Hover, this quote finally sways my vote in favour of Merry:


> Legolas and Gimli were to ride again together in the company of Aragorn and Gandalf, who went in the van with the Dúnedain and the sons of Elrond. But Merry to his shame was not to go with them.
> ‘You are not fit for such a journey,’ said Aragorn. ‘But do not be ashamed. If you do no more in this war, you have already earned great honour. Peregrin shall go and represent the Shirefolk; and do not grudge him his chance of peril, for though he has done as well as his fortune allowed him, he has yet to match your deed. But in truth all now are in like danger.


 After that, Pippin does nothing more than kill a Troll, so I think it has to be Merry.


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## FoolOfATook (Dec 27, 2002)

11-3 in favor of Pippin. Damn straight.


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## Aragorns_girl00 (Dec 28, 2002)

i don't know. they're even, i guess. lol


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