# The Darkening of Valinor



## grendel (Apr 18, 2004)

Been reading, slowly, the earlier parts of the Silmarillion, and I have a couple of thoughts on this part. Any comments or insights... even nitpicking... are always welcomed.

First of all, I'm not sure I understand why they couldn't just make two more trees. Aside from the ad hominem statement, that some works may only be accomplished once.... I mean, these guys are Valar, right? Sort of akin to gods? I can understand Feanor reaching his peak with the sils, but... Even if Yavanna couldn't re-create the two trees, surely she could make something nearly as good?

Secondly, if we stipulate that the trees are gone, but that she could revive them with the light from the silmarils... does she really need all three? Wouldn't breaking one of them do? Do you think Feanor would have been willing to give one up, if he could have kept the other two? I mean... I wouldn't have been too happy, either, in his place.


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## Confusticated (Apr 19, 2004)

I have wondered for a long time if all three were needed, but haven't found anything to answer this. The way the event is told, sounds as thought it was only _assumed_ by Feanor (and others) that all three were needed. How anyone could know this without trying, I do not know. I've also wondered if Feanor would have given up just one of the three. I think he might have done it, but who knows? It would have been worth a try!

I know I started a thread on this, but it must have been at nother site because I can't find it. But I remember no satisfying answer came. It is a good question.



About Yavanna being unable to make Trees again, I do not see why a Vala should have unlimited power for this sort of thing, but not an elf? Maybe no attempt to recreate a work of art woud give the same result. In copying it fails to be art I think... it misses something vital. Maybe in the case of the Trees this something vital was the light itself.


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## Arvedui (Apr 19, 2004)

I think that Nóm is closing in on the target...

The way I see this (and I know that I can be a spoiler here), the crucial point is not the trees, but the light.
Tolkien's Silmarillion is a mythology. He have given the world a self-made mythology where the (Flat) Earth is made out of song, and it was first lit by a (probably huge) lamp, then later by the light that came from the two trees in question.
Somewhere along the history, Tolkien's mythology will have to close in to the physical world as we all know it today. The Earth is round, not flat. And it is lit by the sun and the moon, not by two trees. So my guess is that if the Valar really would have wanted to re-create the two trees, then they could probably have done so. But the fault of the two trees were that they did in fact only give light to Valinor and Tol Eressëa. They gave little light to the rest of Arda, and were as such insufficient. A better solution had to be invented.

And don't forget the words of Eru:


> And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.


I probably suffer from lack of imagination as I am unable to come up with a more creative answer, but sometimes the thruth is just as simple as it looks on the first instant. Maybe this is the case here as well?


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## Inderjit S (Apr 19, 2004)

The Valar's power within Arda was _limited_. They could do a lot of things, but not everything. I think creating another two trees would have been something that they could not have done, like say they could not have changed the fate of Men. Eru wouldn't have allowed it. Why? Because it interfered in his grand plan maybe?


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