# Last Alliance battle at the Black Gate



## JeffF. (Jan 4, 2002)

I've often wondered about the description of this battle. It states specifically that all middle earth was divided that day, even beasts and birds fought on either side. Specifically "only the elves were undivided." I've always wondered if that meant that some orcs and trolls fought on the side of the Alliance or do you think that those two races were aside from that description. I can't imagine ents fighting for Sauron either.


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## Aldarion (Jan 6, 2002)

*loyal trolls etc*

You're right as far as I can see. Another oversight on Professor T's part - gosh, we're all so picky!


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## Ståle (Jan 6, 2002)

Perhaps some of those nasty Huorns fought for SAuron, although it's up to each person to judge whether they are still 'Ents'.

You're right about Trolls and Orcs though.


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## Eonwe (Jan 6, 2002)

I always thought it was wierd about the dwarves? Must have been some dwarves from the east or south or something.


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## JeffF. (Jan 7, 2002)

*Dwarves, the big mystery*

Yes I wish there was more on them. Durin's Folk are really the only ones that the LOTR-Hobbit-Silmarillion stories are concerned with. Beyond vague mentions of other dwarves in the ROFTK Appendices (Durin's Folk) and the assumption that the Seven Rings were given to the seven houses there is not much. The only book in Christopher Tolkein's 'History' series I found worthwhile keeping was the Peoples of Middle Earth which names the other six dwarf houses and gives more information on their locations.


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## JeffF. (Jan 11, 2002)

*TO Eonwe*

In the Hobbit it stated that some evil Dwarves had made alliances with Goblins. I suppose the Dwarves had their groups prone to evil just as men did.


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## Bombur (Jan 15, 2002)

I always took the statement that only the Elves were undivided to mean that every Elf who took part in the battle were together as one group (under Gil-Galad and later Elrond), whereas the Trolls, Orcs, etc. were not based as one group.


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## JeffF. (Jan 15, 2002)

*Bombur*

The text specifically states that some of each kind fought on either side with the exception of the Elves. Unfinished Tales also states that the Silvan Elves fought under Amdir and Oropher (Thraduil's father) and were not disposed to put themselves under Gil-Galad's command.


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## Halasían (Jul 30, 2020)

This has always been an interesting bit that appeared in the Silmarillion. I'm guessing that without further explanation from the Professor himself, it was just a bit that never got fully developed. Did he mean 'divided' as in for or against Sauron (good & evil)? I do have a hard time seeing Orcs and Trolls fighting against Sauron.


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