# Serious Stuff and Bother



## HLGStrider (Oct 1, 2003)

With talk of getting rid of BOTH the Guild of Religion and the Guild of Politics and reducing non-Tolkien to just Stuff and Bother, I think an idea brought up by the C9 in the original GoR debate should be seriously considered:
A serious Non-Tolkien guild of Serious debates section. ..whatever you want to call it.

This guild could house serious, non-Tolkien debates involving politics, religion, literature, and philsophy, all of which have the habit of springing up in odd places.

It would help us preserve the debates, which I for one enjoy, without losing the Tolkien edge.


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## Eriol (Oct 1, 2003)

I like it; for several reasons. But would we have to use the word "debate" in there? 

I'd like ONE Forum of all-you-can-think-of serious stuff; be it celebration of a National holiday, a debate, or something else.


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## HLGStrider (Oct 2, 2003)

Celebration of a national holiday is pretty lighthearted, but I know what you mean . . .a serious national holiday or a serious look at one. . .or the death of a literary personage. . .something like that.


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## Snaga (Oct 2, 2003)

If you are getting rid of GOP and GOR there is no point to bringing it back in another name.


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## YayGollum (Oct 2, 2003)

Well, those two were inviting people to talk about those types of things. This serious place would be for talking about those and any other serious type things you could come up with. It wouldn't specifically advertise anything besides serious non-Tolkien type subjects.


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## Snaga (Oct 2, 2003)

So how do you know what's 'Serious' and what isnt? That's always a matter of opinion. For example a discussion about music or TV could be either. I'd be in favour of just having a section of light-hearted discussion in which people can talk about anything unrelated to Tolkien as long as the discussion doesnt get unpleasant. I think having a 'Serous Discussion' section invites people to go hammer and tongs on a subject that is nothing to do with Tolkien to the detriment of the forum in general.


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## Eriol (Oct 2, 2003)

And we fall back on the question of the name. "Guild of Religion" invites Religious discussion, "Serious Discussion" invites serious discussion (i.e., discourages non-serious discussion)... what we need is to find a name that will both embrace all kinds of discussion and not invite any kind of unpleasantry. The Guild of Controversial Subjects sounds both lighthearted and serious enough to my taste... I like it .


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## Confusticated (Oct 2, 2003)

I've said elsewhere but I'll put it here: I think one Stuff and Bother is enough.

I doubt this will happen thought, seems most people are against it.

The big reason I hear against having one S&B is that some topics are allegedly too good to go into the 'ridiculous' or 'silly' S&B. Oh well. If some more in-depth conversations had to go into _Stuff and Bother_ instead of being removed because folks think they are too good for that forum, maybe people would be less tempted to start a poll asking which is better: Best of all, bestest, the very bestest, the very very best, better or better than the rest.

The best threads have serious and silly anyhow, right?


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## HLGStrider (Oct 2, 2003)

> So how do you know what's 'Serious' and what isnt? That's always a matter of opinion.



I think sometimes it is obvious. In fact, most of the time it is obvious.

And Stuff and Bother will always tend towards the ridiculous and leave little room for intelligence. It always has.


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## Aulë (Oct 3, 2003)

Why don't we just *merge GoP, GoR, TTL and S&B*?
That way, all the non-Tolkien topics will be in one spot. 
Get a couple of Mods to specifically patrol that forum, and there you go- problem solved.

A lot less fuss needed.


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## Snaga (Oct 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *I think sometimes it is obvious. In fact, most of the time it is obvious.
> 
> And Stuff and Bother will always tend towards the ridiculous and leave little room for intelligence. It always has. *


 That sounds like the ideal place for much of the GoR.

A 'Guild of Contraversial Subjects' will encourage a whole load of threads where the thread starters vie for the most outrageous subject.

I agree with Nom and Aule.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Oct 3, 2003)

I agree with Nom and Aule as well.


> And Stuff and Bother will always tend towards the ridiculous and leave little room for intelligence. It always has.


 We might as well start now in fixing that.


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## Lantarion (Oct 3, 2003)

This 'double S&B' plan is being given consideration among the Moderators, and I for one think that it's a good idea.


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## Beleg (Oct 3, 2003)

Just wanted to ask: what is the harm if we get a light-hearted and 'silly' [A conditional term]_ Stuff and Bother?_ It is really fun and it increases the interaction among members, which is essential for the vitality of this forum. 

I remember when I first joined there were about the same number of posts in both _Stuff and Bother_ and _Bag End_ but now _Stuff and Bother_ has really shot up; and it is nice to read all the [Albiet some silly] threads in _Stuff and Bother_ and have a nice laugh to calm the nerves and temper. 



> We might as well start now in fixing that.



Does this alleged ridiculusness hurt anyone?


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## HLGStrider (Oct 3, 2003)

> That way, all the non-Tolkien topics will be in one spot.



But those non-Tolkiens are all of highly different tenor. GoP and GoR can be grouped with very little fuss, I think, and throw in a few literary, philsophy, or history threads, and you have a nice section where you can get to know people in a serious manner asside from their views on Tolkien. . .



> That sounds like the ideal place for much of the GoR.



I really think GoR got a bad wrap. I am involved in plenty of well-mannered, intelligent discussions in it. I think a lot of us entered into the section convinced it was doomed to fail and made it fairly clear in our posts that we didn't care if it did or didn't.



> This 'double S&B' plan is being given consideration among the Moderators, and I for one think that it's a good idea.



Thank you. . .! It'll be fun! I SWEAR IT WILL!



> Does this alleged ridiculusness hurt anyone?



No, it doesn't. Which is why I adovocate keeping the S and B we have now and also providing for a place where the more soberminded can take refuge and still talk outside of Tolkien.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Oct 3, 2003)

No, the ridiculousness doesn't hurt anyone at all . . . I enjoy it myself. But I just don't see why all non-Tolkien threads can't go in the same forum.

But regardless of that, I honestly don't care.


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## Dr. Ransom (Oct 6, 2003)

I always thought it would be nice to call the GoR the Guild of Philosophy and Theology. And as for non-Tolkien related subject, I for one am a huge tolkien nutcase who honestly doesn't post much in Tolkien related threads, mostly because I don't know nearly as much about the books as everybody else here (after all, I haven't re-read them more than twice... lol), and also because I talk about Tolkien all day long in real life... 


Anyway, I really think people are freaking out over nothing. I observed no real reason to think the GoR has "failed" or anything like that.


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