# Tolkien Names in Other Media



## Radaghast (Jun 23, 2021)

It strikes me as curious that words 'hobbit' and 'balrog' (maybe others) are often limits for use in works in other media, as they are protected by the Tolkien estate. So, for fantasy RPG games like Dungeons & Dragons, the words 'halfling' and 'balor' are used.

It's curious because other words from the Tolkien lexicon are not off-limits. I'm not very well-versed in copyright or trademark law, but it strikes me as odd that names, particularly Aragorn and Sauron, were allowed to be used in other popular media.

*Exhibit A: Aragorn*
In 1968, Marvel Comics debuted a flying horse debuted in _The Avengers_ #48.


Initially named Pegasus, the horse is officially renamed Aragorn in _Avengers_ #55.


*Exhibit B: Sauron*
In 1969, in _X-Men_ #60 a character named Karl Lykos transforms into a were-pterodactyl (wereodactyl?) and actually names himself after the Tolkien character.


I doubt Tolkien knew anything about comics so he probably was unaware of these uses, but I have to wonder what his reaction would be. I'm just wondering if this would normally violate a copyright or trademark and simply flew under the radar at the time due to the relative obscurity (at the time) of the work. Just wondering (again, I don't know much about copyright or trademark law). Also, it's a bit weird that the horse would be named after Aragorn rather than one of the horses in the book. Both characters were created by writer/editor Roy Thomas.

*Exhibit C: Morgoth*
In _He-Man and the Master of the Universe_, in the episode "Origin of the Sorceress" (airdate 09/23/85) a villain named 'Morgoth the Terrible' appears. This episode was written by J. Michael Straczynski, who wrote for the TV show _Babylon 5_. This episode also features a mechanical horse named Stridor; I wonder if this name is inspired by Tolkien's 'Strider'.



*Exhibit D: Led Zeppelin*
Singer Robert Plant is a Tolkien fan and dropped a few Tolkien references in a few songs by Led Zeppelin. Gollum and Mordor are mentioned in the song "Ramble On" from the album _Led Zeppelin II_. In the song "The Battle of Evermore" which has heavy LotR themes, the word 'Ringwraiths' and the phrase 'Dark Lord' is used. From the same untitled fourth album is the song "Misty Mountain Hop" which, of course, mentions the Misty Mountains. I doubt these references wouldn't cause any legal fuss, but they're worth mentioning.

Anyway, does anyone know of any other instances of names and words invented by Tolkien that have been used in other media? This can, of course, include music and there are a few bands that have songs with Tolkienesque themes. For instance, the band Rush has a song called "Rivendell".


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## Miguel (Jun 23, 2021)

The word Adûn, I've seen it in both Star Wars and Starcraft. I'm not sure if Tolkien invented this word but i would definitely like a confirmation, he probably did though.


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## Elthir (Jun 23, 2021)

In letter 258 (1964) Tolkien said: *"I wish "Copyright" could protect names, as well as extracts."*

But I don't know anything about Copyright law -- "here or there" or "now versus then" -- and I can't recall a media example at the moment.

🐾


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## Radaghast (Jun 23, 2021)

Elthir said:


> In letter 258 (1964) Tolkien said: *"I wish "Copyright" could protect names, as well as extracts."*
> 
> But I don't know anything about Copyright law -- here or there or now versus then -- and I can't recall a media example at the moment.
> 
> 🐾


I think maybe trademark protects names but only if there is a likeness to go with them, as with comic book characters. Pure guess on my part, of course.

One other thought I had is that I find it strange that only those particular names were used. And some names were not made up by Tolkien and are in the public domain; 'Gandalf', for instance.


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## Radaghast (Jun 23, 2021)

Elthir said:


> In letter 258 (1964) Tolkien said: *"I wish "Copyright" could protect names, as well as extracts."*


I looked up the letter and, interestingly, it's in regards to how a "Aquastroll hydrofoil" was named 'Shadowfax'.



Tolkien goes on to say in that letter:


> It is a form of invention that I take a great deal of trouble over, and pleasure in; and really it is quite as difficult (often more so) as, say, lines of verse. I must say I was piqued by the 'christening' ofthat monstrous 'hydrofoil' Shadowfax – without so much as 'by your leave' – to which several correspondents drew my attention (some with indignation). I am getting used to Rivendells, Loriens, Imladris etc. as housenames – though maybe they are more frequent than the letters which say 'by your leave'.


— _The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien_, #258

So, I think that answers the question about what Tolkien would have thought about 'Aragorn' and 'Sauron' being used as names for comic book characters, both named while he was still alive. I doubt he knew a thing about American comics, though, or any comics for that matter.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 23, 2021)

Elthir said:


> letter 258


I was going to mention that one, in relation to "Shadowfax". *

BTW, Radaghast, there are some older threads here on the subject, including IIRC at least one devoted to song appearances. A fairly long list, as I recall.

* Edit: I see you beat me to it, Radaghast.


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## Radaghast (Jun 23, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I was going to mention that one, in relation to "Shadowfax".
> 
> BTW, Radaghast, there are some older threads here on the subject, including IIRC at least one devoted to song appearances. A fairly long list, as I recall.


Okay, thanks, will see if I can find it.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 23, 2021)

Good luck. If you survive your descent into the TTF sepulchre, let us know what you come up with.


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## Ealdwyn (Jun 23, 2021)

But Tolkien himself wasn't above borrowing names: for example, Gollum is remarkably similar to Golem, a creature from Jewish folklore


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## Radaghast (Jun 23, 2021)

Ealdwyn said:


> But Tolkien himself wasn't above borrowing names: for example, Gollum is remarkably similar to Golem, a creature from Jewish folklore


Different pronunciation and entirely different concept, though, not to mention different spelling.

Tolkien actually used lots of names he didn't create, but all public domain, in a general sense (don't know what the laws are, precisely, regarding names).


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## Elthir (Jun 23, 2021)

The show Cheers borrowed "Sam" . . . which once prompted Diane to say (to Sam).







Probably not a good example though


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## Ealdwyn (Jun 23, 2021)

Elthir said:


> The show Cheers borrowed "Sam" . . . which once prompted Diane to say (to Sam).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know 2 people named Sam. Clearly they should sue the Tolkien estate.


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## Radaghast (Jun 23, 2021)

Another belated thought. The Marvel characters Aragorn and Sauron can now very probably never appear in a Marvel film since the Tolkien characters have appeared in films and now have likenesses. Well, they _can_ but will likely have to be renamed.


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## Olorgando (Jun 23, 2021)

I've always wondered about "Ainu / Ainur". I've known for a long time that the real-world Ainu are an indigenous people living on the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido - with central Japanese government control a recent, late-19th century development. My guess is that it's an accidental resemblance, as I cannot remember reading that JRRT had an interest in east Asia.


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## Radaghast (Jun 23, 2021)

Yes, I think it's accidental, sort of like 'Túna', the hill in Aman. For that matter, the word 'hobbit' is also an "accidental homophone" in the words of Tolkien:


> I have no waking recollection of furry pigmies (in book or moonlight); nor of any Hobbit bogey in print by 1904. I suspect that the two hobbits are accidental homophones, and am content* that they are not (it would seem) synonyms.


— _The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien_, #25


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## Radaghast (Jun 24, 2021)

I remembered the use of 'hobbit' in a song that was either allowed or overlooked, or the rules are different for songs. Anyway, here it is, "Hobbit on the Rocks" by Toad the Wet Sprocket.


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## Marc Dearn (Jul 1, 2021)

There is a range of outdoor clothing with the trade name Rohan 
They did walking trousers called Striders at one time


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## Radaghast (Sep 16, 2021)

I just remembered the Palantir company. 






How were they allowed to use the name?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 16, 2021)

The name would have had to have been trademarked by the Tolkien estate, I believe, in order to prevent use by others. Or they may possibly have licensed it. It would take some looking.

At any rate, I think we now know what happened to the Ithil-stone. 😀




Radaghast said:


> I remembered the use of 'hobbit' in a song that was either allowed or overlooked, or the rules are different for songs.


An LP from 1967:


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## Lachelore (Jun 9, 2022)

Two come to mind almost immediately.
1. Endor, the planet that the Ewoks lived on in Star Wars.
2. The Haradrim in the original Diablo video game, which were a race of wizards of sorts if I recall correctly.


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## Radaghast (Jun 10, 2022)

Lachelore said:


> Two come to mind almost immediately.
> 1. Endor, the planet that the Ewoks lived on in Star Wars.
> 2. The Haradrim in the original Diablo video game, which were a race of wizards of sorts if I recall correctly.


In Diablo, it's actually Horadrim, though that was likely influenced by the Tolkien word.


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## Beytran70 (Jun 10, 2022)

Miguel said:


> The word Adûn, I've seen it in both Star Wars and Starcraft. I'm not sure if Tolkien invented this word but i would definitely like a confirmation, he probably did though.



There is also a mining world in Starcraft called Moria, and plenty of easter eggs and references to Tolkien in WoW.


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## Culaeron (Jun 12, 2022)

I remember a smooth jazz / new age band from the late 80s named Shadowfax. I had one of their CDs. I’ve quite a few songs in my music collection with Tolkien names. Works from Rush, Led Zeppelin, a metal band named The Summoning (in particular, they have a song named Menegroth, and another named Bauglir), and many other groups


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