# Are Elves immortal?



## samjor (Mar 19, 2003)

I was wondering if elves are immortal.

It,s just that I was reading the hobbit and I came across this line:

"Already behind him among the goblin dead lay many men and many dwarves, and
many a fair elf that should have lived yet long ages merrily in the wood."

Chapter 16 The Clouds Burst.


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 19, 2003)

Elves are immortal in the sense that they are bound to the world for as long as the world lasts.
Elves could be slain or die of grief, but were not subject to age or disease.
When a Elf dies his spirt goes to Mandos for is judgement, and after a period of wating would be reimbodied.


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## JediHobbit (Mar 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Melo Belcha _
> *Elves are immortal in the sense that they are bound to the world for as long as the world lasts.
> Elves could be slain or die of grief, but were not subject to age or disease.
> When a Elf dies his spirt goes to Mandos for is judgement, and after a period of wating would be reimbodied. *



I don't think they were reimbodied, but rather their spirits or sould hung around in the Halls of Mandos until the Last Battle, or end of the world. At that time they were finally released from being bound to the world, perhaps following the Doom of Man at that point.


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 19, 2003)

They were reimbodied. How would you explain Glorfindel returning during the Second Age?
Plus Feanor is the only Elf never allowed to leave Mandos.
The Silmarillion


> ...and his likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the Halls of Mandos.



Read Morgoth's Ring and The War of the Jewels. Tolkien changes his old belief of the Elves being reborn to being reimbodied.


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## samjor (Mar 19, 2003)

Hello,

I was wondering from where u got your information from as I am new to Tolkienology and would be interested to learn more.

Thank - You


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## JediHobbit (Mar 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Melo Belcha _
> *They were reimbodied. How would you explain Glorfindel returning during the Second Age?
> Plus Feanor is the only Elf never allowed to leave Mandos.
> The Silmarillion
> ...



I don't remember Glorfindel dying. When did that happen?


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 19, 2003)

The Silmarillion Of Tuor and The Fall of Gondolin.


> Many are the songs that have been sung of the duel of Glorfindel with the Balrog upon the pinnacle of rock in that high place; and both fell to ruin in the abyss..........The Thorondor bore up Glorfindel's body out of the abyss, and they buried him in a mound of stones beside the pass; and a green turf came there, and yellow flowers bloomed upon it amid the barrenness of stone, until the world was changed.


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## Niniel (Mar 19, 2003)

Yes, and later he 'received' a new body, and so returned to Arda. But not all Elves returned (see this thread )


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## elf boy (Mar 19, 2003)

Elves last while the world lasts, but they can also be killed. They don't die of natural causes.. and if they do die they go to some halls, so I wouldn't say immortal, but real close to it.


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## JediHobbit (Mar 19, 2003)

Thanks Niniel. That thread helped a lot.


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## BlackCaptain (Mar 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JediHobbit _
> *I don't remember Glorfindel dying. When did that happen? *



During the destruction of Gondolin he slew a balrog, but was himself killed in the process. He was reimbodied in the 2nd age, and was there to help Frodo get across the Bruinen. This proves that Elves are, or can be (I myself and new to this whole reimbodiment theory) reimbodied.


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## Celebthôl (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *During the destruction of Gondolin he slew a balrog, but was himself killed in the process. He was reimbodied in the 2nd age, and was there to help Frodo get across the Bruinen. This proves that Elves are, or can be (I myself and new to this whole reimbodiment theory) reimbodied. *



that is one of the most talked about topics as its not 100% sure he was rembodied and stuff...


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *that is one of the most talked about topics as its not 100% sure he was rembodied and stuff... *


What do you mean by this? That it is not sure if Elves are reimbodied or that Glorfindel of Gondolin and Rivendell are the same. The reimbodied theory comes from Morgoth's Ring, and Tolkien's last writtings on the subject he came to the conclusion that they were reimbodied. The idea of Glorfindel can be found in The Return of the Shadow and The peoples of Middle-earth.
The Return of the Shadow.


> Consultation. Over M[isty] M[ountains}. Down Great River to Mordor. Dark Tower. Beyond (?) which is Fiery Hill.
> Story of Gilgalald told by Elrond? Who is Trotter? Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin.


This was a note written by Tolkien when the main character in LOTR was still named Bingo and Trotter (Strider) was still a Hobbit.
Christopher Tolkien wrote.


> Also very notable is 'Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin'. Years later, long after the publication of The Lord of the Rings, my father gave a great deal of thought to the matter of Glorfindel, and at that time he wrote: '[The use of Glorfindell} in The Lord of the Rings is one of the cases of the somewhat random use of the names found in the older legends, now reffered to as The Silmarillion, which escaped reconsideration in the final published form of The Lord of the Rings'. He came to the conclusion that Glorfindel of Gondolin, who fell to his death in combat with a Balrog after the sack of the city, and Glorfindel of Rivendell were one and the same: he was released from Mandos and returned to Middle-earth in the Second Age.


Tolkien also wrote that the spirt of a Elf was not destined to remain in Mandos, and the ones that choose to stay in Mandos was due to the Marring of Arda by Melkor. To stay inside Mandos was the closet thing to death a Elf could find in the world.


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## Illuvatar (Dec 29, 2003)

samjor said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering from where u got your information from as I am new to Tolkienology and would be interested to learn more.
> 
> Thank - You



I think they got it from the Silmarillion, and his later writings, such as the books of unfinished tales, the war of the ring, Morgoth's ring, etc.


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## Inderjit S (Dec 29, 2003)

Fëanor and his father Finwë were the only Elves who weren't going to be re-incarnated. Some others may have been unable to be re-incarnated because of their evil deeds, but them two are the only ones named.

Elves are not 'immortal' they last only as long as Arda and Arda cannot last forever.


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