# Tuor and Turin



## Starflower (Oct 29, 2003)

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At length they (Tuor and Voronwe ) came in their journeying to the Pools of Ivrin, and looked with grief on the defilement wrought there by the passage of Glaurung the Dragon; but even as they gazed upon it they saw one going northward in haste, and he was a tall Man, clad in black, and bearing a black sword. But they knew not who he was, nor anything of what had befallen in the south; and he passed them by, and they said no word

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Thsi passage has always intrigued me. Turin and Tuor meet, the two sons of two of the most valiant men of the Age, but they do not know of one another's existence. But what if Tuor had called out to Turin ? What if they had found out who they are and what they are to one another ? Would Tuor have gone on to Gondolin, met Idril and married her and would Turin have gone on to his fate with Glaurung?


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## Arvedui (Oct 29, 2003)

The way I see it, Tuor would still go to Gondolin. I think that Ulmo had managed to give Tuor the understanding of the importance of his mission there. Also, Voronwe was with him, and I don't think that he would allow Tuor to stray away from the right course.
As for Túrin, I am unable to remember when this was, but he was probably too entangled in saving Finuilas (I think that this is after his encounter with Glaurung, going north and all), to even think about straying away from that course.


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 29, 2003)

And even if Tuor and Voronwe had decided to help Turin and to lose some time,but to save Finduilas and then all to go to Gondolin,that would not have bettered anything.What is more I think it would have been even worse for Tuor and Turgon and Gondolin,because of Turin and the Curse of Morgoth over Hurin's family.


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## Gandalf The Grey (Oct 29, 2003)

This particular vignette has always been my favorite part of the Silmarillion. The whole poignancy for me is how Tuor and Turin each held it within his power to greet the other ... and instead both chose to remain silent rather than allow a chance meeting to become an opportunity for each to render the other help unlooked for. To say that the weight and pull of the eventual outcome of Tuor and Turin appear inevitable is an eminently reasonable conclusion. Yet doom that ends in such self-absorption as to preclude any respite or comfort through cameraderie ... "shared joy that is doubled, shared grief that is halved" ... is a heavy doom indeed.

Gandalf the Grey


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## Bucky (Oct 30, 2003)

I don't think Turin's on his way to save Finduilas but still going north to save Morwen, no?

Funny, that's right where I am in HOME 11 as it goes back & forth between Tour & Turin in The Grey Annals.........


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## Iarwain (Oct 30, 2003)

I always liked that part too. Unfinished Tales goes into a little bit more detail.



> _Of Tour and his coming to Gondolin_
> And as they waited one came through the trees, and they saw that he was a tall man,armed,clad in black,with a long sword drawn;and they wondered, for the blade of the sword also was black, but the edges shown bright and cold. Woe was graven in his face, and when he beheld the ruin of Ivrin he cried aloud in grief, saying: "Ivrin, Faelivrin! Gwindor and Beleg! Here once I was healed. But now never shall I drink the draught of peace again."
> 
> Then he went swiftly away towards the North, as one in pursuit, or on a errand of great haste, and they heard him cry _Faelivrin, Finduilas!_ until his voice died away in the woods. But they knew not that Nargothrond had fallen, and this was Turin son of Hurin, the Blacksword. Thus only for a moment, and never again, did the paths of those kinsman, Turin and Tour, draw together.


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## Snaga (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm sure Tuor would not have swayed Turin, nor have been of much interest to him. Turin was under the influence of Glaurung and totally wrapped up in his own issues. Tuor would have listened to Turins tale with dismay, and hastening to Gondolin would have told Turgon of the Fall of Nargothrond. I expect that would have not have made Turgon any more ready to listen to Ulmo's advice. Quite the reverse: I think he would have been even more determined to try to hold out, as a last stronghold of the Noldor.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 7, 2003)

Or he would have decided to leave Gondolin.The Fall of Nargothrond meant that Gondolin became the last stronghold of the elves.But that also meant that Morgoth would do everything possible and to find finally Gondolin.After the fall of Finrod's kingdom,Morgoth was able to concentrate on Turgon.That was too much for Gondolin I think.
Turgon would have understood that was alone against Morgoth and that is was a question of time to be found.Realizing that he would have trusted his last hope-Ulmo.


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## Snaga (Nov 11, 2003)

Yet many Noldor would have come to Gondolin after the fall of Nargothrond. The news would have reached Turgon after a time. This did not sway him.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 11, 2003)

I don't think many Noldor from Nargothtrond knew where was Gondolin.


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## breadfan35 (Nov 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Arvedui _
> *The way I see it, Tuor would still go to Gondolin. I think that Ulmo had managed to give Tuor the understanding of the importance of his mission there. Also, Voronwe was with him, and I don't think that he would allow Tuor to stray away from the right course.
> As for Túrin, I am unable to remember when this was, but he was probably too entangled in saving Finuilas (I think that this is after his encounter with Glaurung, going north and all), to even think about straying away from that course. *



That is how I see it in my head.


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