# Fëanor's Death, Convenient?



## Maedhros (Aug 29, 2002)

> Then he died; but he had neither burial nor tomb, for so fiery was his spirit that as it sped his body fell to ash, and was borne away like smoke; and his likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the halls of Mandos. Thus ended the mightiest of the Noldor, of whose deeds came both their greatest renown and their most grievous woe.


Do you think that his death was better for the Noldor in general because it allowed for the healing of the houses of Fëanor and Fingolfin by the actions of Fingon and Maedhros? 
Or the might of Fëanor would have helped the Noldor further against their war with Morgoth? Remember, Fëanor would have not accepted well the position of Thingol as the Ruler of Beleriand as Fingolfin did. 
From the War of the Jewels: The Gray Annals


> Thirdly: because after the death of Fëanor the overlordship of the Exiles (as shall be recounted) passed to Fingolfin, and he being of other mood than Fëanor acknowledged the high-kingship of Thingol and Menegroth, being indeed greatly in awe of that king, mightiest of the Eldar save Fëanor only, and of Melian no less.


Che pensi tu?
This thread is in honor to Grond that was regainded his Moderator status!


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## Confusticated (Aug 30, 2002)

I think his dying when he did was not only better for the Noldor but for all Elves and men. If he had remained King there would probably have been more war among the Elves, this would have probably caused some ripple and I can only imagine the effects would be dangerous and would include lots more kinslaying. Feanor would have continued to be an exellent tool for Morgoth. Feanor would probably have been killed by other means though, before Morgoth was defeated.


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## Maedhros (Aug 30, 2002)

I have to agree that with the death of Fëanor, the Noldor were reunited in a way by the deed of Fingon and the passing of the mantle of king to the House of Fingolfin.


> These are the thoughts of one who is only reading the book for her second time though.


Sorry, i thought that you were a guy.


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## Confusticated (Aug 30, 2002)

lol! But why be sorry about that? Plus, I never would have known ha dyou not just told me!


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## Gil-Galad (Aug 31, 2002)

I like Feanor very much,really.But I must confess his death is comfortable.If he didn't die he would do many other things,some them great and some of them bad.And I'm afraid from the bad things which he would do.


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## LúthienTinúviel (Sep 1, 2002)

I have to admit I was cheering when he died, though that is not to say I do not think he was great...once upon a time in Valinor.

Had he lived and continued his in his unquenchable thirst for vengeance, the whole of the race of the Eldar might have been destroyed. While there are pros and cons to biding one's time, I find Fingolfin wiser than Feanor, and I believe his judgement served his people better in that time than did or would have Feanor's.


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## Grond (Sep 1, 2002)

And yet again good Maedhros has provided me with another opportunity to shamelessly plug my most famous narrative in honor of Fingolfin. Had Feanor not been vanquished as he was, Fingolfin would not likely have had the chance to challenge Melkor one on one. 

and here is my quote.... yet again. 



> *Fingolfin was absolutely the most awesome elf/king/warrior/bad-arse that this hammer has ever seen. Riding up and pounding on the door of Angband itself, screaming for my boss to come out. Man, was Melkor scared that day. He realized that Fin had already come the whole way kickin' butt... no one could stop him. He was hiding under his throne, when he realized everyone was watching him. He pretended he was looking for a penny that he dropped and kind of said "Well, I guess I'll have to go deal with this little interuption." Let me tell you though, he was nearly wettin' his britches.
> 
> Then my master crept up from his pit, where Fingolfin berated him with craven words. Fingolfin's hair billowed in the wind, his sword Ringil glittered as it was drawn, and his blue shield sparkled in the sun. My master struck at him, but he jumped aside... I gouged a huge pit in the earth. Again and again and again, I was wielded and smote into empty earth and each time Fingolfin countered my master's stroke with a wounding strike. Seven times did Melkor strike and miss and seven times Fingolfin countered with a strike that brought black blood from my master.
> 
> ...


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## Maedhros (Sep 1, 2002)

> I have to admit I was cheering when he died, though that is not to say I do not think he was great...once upon a time in Valinor.


Cheering when someone dies, that's interesting. Hmmmm. I wonder what other things you cheer for. Wait, I think I will not like to know.
 


> Had Feanor not been vanquished as he was, Fingolfin would not likely have had the chance to challenge Melkor one on one.


Now why is that. Do you think that Fingolfin would have challenged Fëanor to a duel and lost?


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 7, 2002)

Nobody from all elves would ever challange Feanor.He was born a leader(just remember what his mother had said)and nobody would oppose him,even Fingolfin.I doubt Fingolfin would make Noldors follow him in Arda......


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## Lhunithiliel (Sep 15, 2002)

I might be confused with all the variants of the names, but as I remember, Tingol was one of the major Elves, equal by rank to Feanor's father. Now , we all know that Feanor loved deeply his father and rspected the High Elven Kings. Therefore, I would imagine that if he had met Tingol, there would NOT have been rivalry between them and Feanor would have accepted Tngol as the king of all Elves. TOGETHER they could have made a mighty alliance and.... But this is a topic of my "What if..?"- thread at the Guild of Tolkienology. 
_It is open to everybody! There is an interesting current topic! You ALL are invited to participate!_  

As for Feanor's death - well I wouldn't call it "convenient". Feanor was driven by burning feelings and aims and as he had no match among the others who lived in Valinor he managed to lead the Elves and do what he had done. I admit his was not the best and the fairest way to pursue his aims, but great leaders seldom think about the methods to achieve their goals. Feanor was convinced that what he was doing was for the better for all his people. 
I personally was extremely sad when he died, just as well as when all the other great Elves perished in the battles with Morgoth! I still think Feanor could have defeated Morgoth ... somehow... after he had cooled his feelings and had given path to reason... 

So, finally, although I would be saying much MORE, I think that Feanor's death just gave way for the story to develop. Had he not died - we would have had quite another story!

_But then again, THIS is a priority of my "What if...?-thread! _ Feanor - his life and importance, is one of the main topics that I have prepared there! It will come very soon! Keep an eye!   
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Please, Maedhros, excuse me for taking advantage of YOUR thread here to advertise MINE! But YOU are MOST WELCOME there!
Amigos?


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## Confusticated (Sep 16, 2002)

> It chanced that at that time the sons of Finarfin were again the guests of Thingol, for they wished to see their sister Galadriel. Then Thingol, being greatly moved, spoke in anger to Finrod, saying: 'I'll have you done to me, kinsman, to conceal so great matters from me, For now I have learned of all the evil deeds of the Noldor.'
> But Finrod answered: 'What ill have I done you, lord? Or what evil deed have the Noldor done in all your realm to grieve you? Neither against your kingship nor against any of your people have they thought evil or done evil.'
> 'I marvel at you, son of Eärwen,' said Thingol, 'that you would come to the board of your kinsman thus red-handed from the slaying of your mother's kin, and yet say naught in defence, nor yet seek any pardon!'
> Then Finrod was greatly troubled, but he was silent, for he could not defend himself, save by bringing charges against the other princes of the Noldor; and that he was loath to do before Thingol. But in Angrod's heart the memory of the words of Caranthir welled up again in bitterness, and he cried: 'Lord, I know not what lies you have heard, nor whence; but we came not red-handed. Guiltless we came forth, save maybe of folly, to listen to the words of fell Fëanor, and become as if besotted with wine, and as briefly. No evil did we do on our road, but suffered ourselves great wrong; and forgave it. For this we are named tale-bearers to you and treasonable to the Noldor; untruly as you know, for we have of our loyalty been silent before you, and thus earned your anger. But now these charges are no longer to be borne, and the truth you shall know.'
> ...



Do you think Thingol would have told Feanor the same that he told Finrod? I doubt it, but can not be sure.
For that reason I think there is a good chance that Thingol and Feanor would not have been allies. Even if Feanor wanted friendship with Thingol, Thingol may not have it.
Lets say feanor was alive when Beren rescues the Silmaril: then what? Surely he would have forced his way into Doriath making war against Thingol to gain it back.
I think that Thingol and Feanor would somehow end up enemies.


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## chrysophalax (Sep 18, 2002)

As Feanor, never my favourite, passed into the halls of Mandos, I must admit to breathing a sigh of relief. No more "honourable" Oaths!


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## Walter (Sep 18, 2002)

Well of course it is convenient or why else would Tolkien have chosen it to happen that way?

And besides, Fëanor was one of those guys who are always so "full of themselves" and as you all know I'm not very partial of those, so I wasn't overly sad about the way the story goes...


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PS: Are we all supposed to post our quotes in red? For it burns my eyes....


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## Grond (Sep 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Walter _
> *----
> PS: Are we all supposed to post our quotes in red? For it burns my eyes....  *


I didn't realize that you had sensitive eyes Walter and I was trying to highlight what I deem one of the best posts I've ever written (especially since I've posted it several times) on the forum. (though I'm sure you disagree.) 

I have changed it to the customary black and will never, ever, ever quote again in red.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: Fëanor's Death, Convenient?*



> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *
> I have changed it to the customary black and will never, ever, ever quote again in red. *



Thank you for that Grond! 

(We are of course kidding! )


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## Lhunithiliel (Sep 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Fëanor's Death, Convenient?*



> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *..........I was trying to highlight what I deem one of the best posts I've ever written .......*


No, Master!!!

Your *BEST* post has already become another - the one you posted in my thread - the "What if...?"-game.


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *I might be confused with all the variants of the names, but as I remember, Tingol was one of the major Elves, equal by rank to Feanor's father. Now , we all know that Feanor loved deeply his father and rspected the High Elven Kings. Therefore, I would imagine that if he had met Tingol, there would NOT have been rivalry between them and Feanor would have accepted Tngol as the king of all Elves. TOGETHER they could have made a mighty alliance and.... But this is a topic of my "What if..?"- thread at the Guild of Tolkienology.
> It is open to everybody! There is an interesting current topic! You ALL are invited to participate!
> 
> ...


Lhu I agree that Feanor would respect deeply Thingol,but to accept Thingol as a king of all elves is too much!Thingol never goes to Valinor and has seen the two trees only through Melian's eyes,he cannot be king of all elves.At the same time I doubt Feanor would allowed Thingol to be king of all elves.He would be interested in an alliance with Elu Thingol but nothing more.At the same time I'm not sure that even Feanor would change the situation when Elu finds the truth about the Noldors and their coming.The rivalry,I think,is guaranteed.
I strongly agree with you that Feanor would have enough strenght to defeat Melkor.
btw,Lhu,privet ve4e ot pld


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## Grond (Sep 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *
> Lhu I agree that Feanor would respect deeply Thingol,but to accept Thingol as a king of all elves is too much!Thingol never goes to Valinor and has seen the two trees only through Melian's eyes,he cannot be king of all elves.At the same time I doubt Feanor would allowed Thingol to be king of all elves.He would be interested in an alliance with Elu Thingol but nothing more.At the same time I'm not sure that even Feanor would change the situation when Elu finds the truth about the Noldors and their coming.The rivalry,I think,is guaranteed.
> I strongly agree with you that Feanor would have enough strenght to defeat Melkor.
> ...


Err.... Ummm.... Gil-galad. 

Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe were the three Elves who were first escorted to Valinor by Orome. Elwe... would have been Elu Singollo. He saw the light of the trees of Valinor with his own eyes... which is why his People were accounted among the Eldar.


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 20, 2002)

oops.....thank you for reminding me that fact.I did an awful mistake......you know,mistakes happen when you have been awakened in 06;25am.,have a bad day at school,and really hard work to do at home,and finally to have some nice time in the forum in 03;35a.m without sleeping for a minute.)Sorry once agian.


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