# What kind of Spider is Ungoliant



## Hadhafang (Feb 17, 2003)

This thread is similar to Flame of Utmno's post on Huan the dog

I always imagined Ungoliant as a sleek black widow before sucking the sap out of the Two Trees of Valinor. Afterwards I picture her turning into a more robust tarantula.

Does anyone else have any idea what kind of spider Ungoliant is?


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## FoolOfATook (Feb 17, 2003)

> Does anyone else have any idea what kind of spider Ungoliant is



A giant one.


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## Rangerdave (Feb 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by FoolOfATook _
> *A giant one.
> 
> *


 Well if thats not the understatement of the year.

I believe that a more accurate answer is "a giant scarey one."



Thank you
RD


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 17, 2003)

I don't think her appearance would change after sucking up the light of the Two Trees. Only her insatiable hunger would be stilled for a while.

I never imagined her like a tarantula, more like this:

Frodo and Shelob 

Ungoliant and Melkor 

Melkor and Ungoliant before the Two Trees 

Sam and Shelob


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## Hadhafang (Feb 17, 2003)

> I don't think her appearance would change after sucking up the light of the Two Trees.



Tolkien does say:


> Ungoliant belched forth black vapours as she drank, and swelled to a shape so vast and hideous that Melkor was afraid.


Tarantulas have a larger Cephalothorax (it's head region) to abdomen (its back half) than black widows, which have large abdomens. The sucking stomach of a spider is in its Cephalothorax. It is possible that the sap of the trees may have swelled this region, making her look more like a tarantula on steroids. Oh, my! I just realized that I have entirely too much time on my hands.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rangerdave _
> *Well if thats not the understatement of the year.
> 
> I believe that a more accurate answer is "a giant scarey one."
> ...





> _Originally posted by FoolOfATook _
> *A giant one.
> 
> *



Whatever would we do without our beloved FoolofaTook and Dave??

I officially award you the title of "Scholars of the Year".


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## Grond (Feb 17, 2003)

I'm with ithrynluin on this one. Take a look at my avatar. Ungoliant is in it.


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## Niniel (Feb 19, 2003)

Can it be that Tolkien's fascination for spiders (Ungoliant, Shelob, the spiders in Mirkwood) was caused by the fact that he was bitten by a poisonous spider as a kid and almost died? It must be...


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## DGoeij (Feb 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Niniel _
> *Can it be that Tolkien's fascination for spiders (Ungoliant, Shelob, the spiders in Mirkwood) was caused by the fact that he was bitten by a poisonous spider as a kid and almost died? It must be... *


Dr. Freud I presume? 

Anyway, I think Tolkien's spiders, especially Ungoliath and Shelob, are in any way comparable by earthly spiders. His descriptions hardly match any of the worlds spiders I have ever seen (on TV, or for real). The armor, claws, fangs and the bodywork in general remind me more of a crablike version of the famous Aliens, once encountered by Signoury Weaver (aka Ripley) than of any Tarantula or Black Widow. 
Quite unlike the descriptions of animals like Huan and Shadowfax, who resemble real dogs and horses, only somewhat bigger, more muscular and close to majestic.


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## Hadhafang (Feb 20, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback.
I guess I was comparing the morphology of the present day spiders. Hunting spiders (tarantulas) tend to be more robust in their head region. All of the pictures that ithrynluin posted portrayed a similarity to web spiders though. Since Shelob in LOTR spun Frodo in a web I guess that she (along with Ungoliant) would look more like web spiders (shape of a black widow). I hope PJ looked these pictures over when creating Shelob for the movie. They are horrifying.
I personally find tarantulas much more scary than web spiders. Hence I projected that idea of Ungoliant in my personal imagination when she "swelled."


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## Gil-Galad (Feb 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by FoolOfATook _
> *A giant one.
> 
> *


......and I bad one I would add


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