# Off-topic Posts



## David Pence (May 2, 2003)

I thought I'd inaugurate this new forum with it's first complaint.

For a long time now, I've been upset by the level of posts, threads, and topics that are discussed that have little, if any relevance to the subject of this site, a certain Oxford Professor named J.R.R. Tolkien, who wrote a few books, like "The Hobbit," and "The Lord of the Rings."

Off-topic posts, in and of themselves, are not my real concern. My real complaint is that a great deal of these threads are outside of the fora I've setup for these discussions.

I don't want to do anything as drastic as prohibit off-topic discussions altogether. But I would like to begin to see that these off-topic to take place in the "Stuff and Bother," and various Bar and Inn fora. That is why they're in the first place.

Now, habits die hard. My simple complain about off-topic posts and threads outside of their assigned fora, won't necessarily alter this trend.

So, what to do.

Should I forbid off-topic posts? No, that won't happen.

Should I instruct the Moderators to begin to delete off-topic posts, and move off-topic threads into one of the off-topic fora? If so, should the member get some kind of warning, and if that member gets enough warnings, be banned for a short period of time to get the message across? 

Or, is there a better way to deal with this? Let's discuss it.


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## YayGollum (May 2, 2003)

Woah! Yikes! I would say ---> no to the first part of that first question. I'd get the moderators to PM the people with the crazy posts (or maybe just post about it in the thread if the people don't pay attention to PMs). 

But sure, there's nothing wrong with moving the threads to where they should be. PMing the person that started the thing would be nice, though. Not everyone pays attention to that little thread in the moderator section that talks about that. Wouldn't it take about the same amount of time to PM the person as it would to post about it in that thread? 

For the second question, I would say something like ---> Woah! You crazy? Scary little warning point thingys just for that? Sure, it would make all kinds of sense if the person never pays attention and keeps doing it, but why mess with the guy the first couple of times? oh well. 

As to the thing about banning, I would also say ---> Yikes! I would expect the person to respond to the PMs or the posts. Wouldn't it be obvious if the message was ignored or not? I don't know, but I would think so. oh well.


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## David Pence (May 2, 2003)

Well, the gist of this thread is that off-topic posts and threads has become a major problem. It has caused members to abandon whole areas of the site, one Moderator to quit.

It's not a suggestion, it will happen. Off-topic posts and threads will be herded into their proper fora. Just how it will happen, is what this thread is about. If a member ignores private messages, or warnings telling them to keep their off-topic discussions in the proper place, that's not really my problem, and some measure need to be taken to get the point across.

I think another hint this thread may broadcast, is that I'm not going to allow TTF to decay into just another general discussion site. This is THE TOLKIEN FORUM, not the WHAT DO YOU THINK OF LINT? FORUM.

So, 'scarry little warning points,' may be the way to go. I hope not.

Trust me, I really don't like needing to be the mean ol' Webmaster. But trust me, those who know me, can testify that I'm more than capable of it.


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## YayGollum (May 2, 2003)

I believe it. Anyways, what made you think that I didn't know what this thread was for? oh well. I tossed all kinds of suggestions at you for what to do instead of tossing scary warning point thingys at people. Sure, I agree that if those don't work, you gots to do that. But then, some people will ignore that, too. Hm. I don't get people that don't respond to anything. oh well. I'm afraid of banning people. It would depend on how evil and achingly oblivious they are to warnings.


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## Rangerdave (May 2, 2003)

I agree whole heartedly that off topic posts belong either in _Stuff and Bother_ or the _Various Inns and Guilds_. 

But I also feel that some of the off topic posts are of much greater worth than what I would call almost topic posts.

Take for example Thorin's well structured and vibrant discussion concerning the concept of Hell in the Time Lords Guild. Granted, most off topic threads are simply either funny or basicly garbage; but there are some worthwhile threads out there. And if the Forum members are not careful, they just might learn something.

I hope that the greater majority of this Forum continues to be a place where people can discuss the finer points of Tolkien's craft in mythology, literature and academia. But if the worst comes to worst; I would rather see ten new intelligent off topic posts than one more example of _Which Elf has the cutest hiney_. That type of near topic post has less than no merit.

Just my two cents
RD


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## Idril (May 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Webmaster _
> *I don't want to do anything as drastic as prohibit off-topic discussions altogether. But I would like to begin to see that these off-topic to take place in the "Stuff and Bother," and various Bar and Inn fora. That is why they're in the first place.*



The main reason (I believe) these off topic threads appear everywhere but in Stuff & Bother is because the member doesn't get any points for the post (which I agree with).

Moderators should PM member and tell they why the thread is being moved and ask them to try an be careful where they place future threads, if a particular member is persistant and cannot appreciate the reasoning behind this, then after maybe 5 offenses, a couple warning points should then be given, to help reinforce the issue.

I believe the off-topic threads are an important aspect of the forum as it build a sense of community. In these threads we get to 'meet' other members and get to know them a bit more personally - not just a forum name and the limited info from 'profile', but a personality to go with it.


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## Beleg (May 2, 2003)

I agree wholeheartedly with Rangerdave's post. But i also want to ask what is the "limit" of off-topic posting. Like it happens that in a serious thread, in a serious discussion where the tension and pressure is building someone tosses in a few light sentences or words which helps to lessen the tension. Does Offtopic posting mean that in a thread we won't be able to post anything that doesn't have anything to do with the topic of the thread?


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## Eledhwen (May 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by YayGollum _
> *Woah! You crazy? Scary little warning point thingys just for that? Sure, it would make all kinds of sense if the person never pays attention and keeps doing it, but why mess with the guy the first couple of times? oh well.*


Persistent off-topic posting should get warning points, but not for just one or two offences. We've all seen threads accidentally started instead of posts, and discussions sliding off subject as the thread grows. In such cases a moderator can add a warning post (and move the thread if necessary); then only those who persist would get a warning point.

Would it be a good idea to email new members with a welcome letter which also details good forum etiquette? One thing I would like to encourage is hitting the Search button before starting a new thread, to avoid unnecessary multiplication.


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## Idril (May 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow _
> *I agree wholeheartedly with Rangerdave's post. But i also want to ask what is the "limit" of off-topic posting. Like it happens that in a serious thread, in a serious discussion where the tension and pressure is building someone tosses in a few light sentences or words which helps to lessen the tension. Does Offtopic posting mean that in a thread we won't be able to post anything that doesn't have anything to do with the topic of the thread? *



I believe this would only apply to threads - where the whole discussion is 'off-topic' not to individual posts. I agree with you, light-hearted off topic posts are sometimes needed to diffuse some heated discussions.


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## Lantarion (May 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Idril_
> I believe this would only apply to threads - where the whole discussion is 'off-topic' not to individual posts.


Hmm.. But the only instance of an off-topic thread would be one that is in the wrong forum.. And in that case it would obviously be moved by a Moderator.
And if a thread is _so_ off-topic that it doesn't pertain to Tolkien at all, it'll either be sent to Stuff and Bother (if it's actually something sensible) or just deleted. But I don't think I've ever seen one of these..
When I hear the term "off-topic post", I think of a single post (and oftena series of posts after the first one) that drifts away from the oiginal theme of the thread. E.g. if there is a thread entitled _Where did Bilbo go on his long walks?_, and somebody posted something about his Farewell Party, and if some people started to pursue that subject within that thread, it would be off-topic.


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## Idril (May 3, 2003)

I thought in those instances, the Mods posted a warning in the thread to get back on topic? If not - perhaps this can be done otherwise it will get moved to a more approriate section.

I just read a couple posts elsewhere regarding 'off-topic' postings and I think we need some clarification on it.
For example: I posted an off topic post in "what was Bilbo going to say", because is answered a question by the previous poster (most of his post was on topic by the way) anyway, I acknowleged my post was such at the bottom together with an apology - and I have to admit I didn't think to PM the person. Would that be penalised? I personally don't think it should as I it sometimes is necessary for the flow, it's a single post and hasn't led the whole thread down the the toilet so to speak.

Another scenerio is where a thread has been discussed and goes slightly off topic into another Tolkien related discussion? Would members get hit with points for this? I guess, one of the members participating in the discussion, should recognise such and start a new thread. But this is how dicsussions happen in real life - we start talking about one thing and it leads to another and another etc. some great thoughts and ideas come about like this.

Anyway, perhaps WM could give us some guidance on this.

PS: anything sounding incoherent is nicotine deprevation


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## Nenya Evenstar (May 4, 2003)

First of all, I would not recommend warning people for off topic posting unless it has resorted to spam, and then you would simply warn them like you would for any other spam. I'm afraid that if we start doing this that we'll become this big bad forum where people would be afraid to post for fear of saying something wrong. It would be a case of far too many rules, and I think it would discourage new and old members alike, as well as growth.


> Should I instruct the Moderators to begin to delete off-topic posts, and move off-topic threads into one of the off-topic fora?


 I think this might work. However, you will run into the problem that the mods will actually have to decide the difference between a good post and a bad post (i.e. the difference between posts that may lighten the mood or add one of those wonderful jokes to the thread or just plain spam), and you may end up offending people. However, if the moderator team has good heads on their shoulders and does not abuse their powers or act elitist, it could work nicely.

I do not think that the Mods should have to PM the membership if they delete posts or move a thread because it has gone off topic. This would take far too much time and would add a huge amount of stress to the Moderating team.

I would be willing to entrust the Moderators with the power to delete off-topic posts and to move threads as long as they are all tactful and have good heads on their shoulders. We need to keep this simple and user-friendly.


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## Beorn (May 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar _
> First of all, I would not recommend warning people for off topic posting unless it has resorted to spam, and then you would simply warn them like you would for any other spam.


It is impossible to control the topic through force, or even control it very much without upsetting a lot of people. TTF is up for discussion of Tolkien, but occasionally the discussion wanders. We would be killing many important thoughts by restricting them.
A request to put a discussion back on topic should be enough.



> However, if the moderator team has good heads on their shoulders...


Did anyone else read this as 'has a good head on their shoulders' and think Nenya thought us a giant monster with 1 head between 14 shoulders? Oh? No one...ok...nevermind 




> I do not think that the Mods should have to PM the membership if they delete posts or move a thread because it has gone off topic. This would take far too much time and would add a huge amount of stress to the Moderating team.


It is a royal pain in the butt. Perhaps something could be implemented to automagically PM all the people in the thread...but I would not like to do that--the PM system on vBulletin is too worked backwards for me to want to bother with it...



> I would be willing to entrust the Moderators with the power to delete off-topic posts and to move threads as long as they are all tactful and have good heads on their shoulders. We need to keep this simple and user-friendly. [/B]


That darn head again! ...


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## Eriol (May 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beorn _
> *Did anyone else read this as 'has a good head on their shoulders' and think Nenya thought us a giant monster with 1 head between 14 shoulders? Oh? No one...ok...nevermind
> *



Come to think of it, I always thought the moderators had an uncanny resemblance to the Knights who say "Ni"...


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## Chymaera (May 4, 2003)

You see how easy it is if I continue off on this fun thing about Moderator heads  this way lay disaster. 

But if peoples could try to keep at least a little of the Original topic per post we can still indulge in a little fun along the way.


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## Eriol (May 4, 2003)

I'm glad you got my joke Chymaera, it just seemed the right thing to do, an off-topic post on this thread...

.

As for the topic in question, I was swayed by Nenya's arguments. I could second everything she said in her last post. But I never was too concerned with this problem. I've seen it happen most often in the GoP or in the movie forums (I've abolished the word 'fora' from my vocabulary, it is just _too_ ugly) where a thread can easily degenerate into a shouting match. I think this is a minor issue... I enjoy very much the free-for-all that sometimes happens in these threads, as long as it is kept civil.


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## Nenya Evenstar (May 5, 2003)

Indulging in fun . . . a little off topic . . . you see, how can I let some of these comments go without further comment? 


> Did anyone else read this as 'has a good head on their shoulders' and think Nenya thought us a giant monster with 1 head between 14 shoulders?


 I think it's stuck now, Beorn. I am fearful of these critters! 

It's good to know that I have power to sway people with my arguments! 

But yes, I have no problem with those big bad mods deleting posts and moving threads. I have a feeling that after a short time of deleting and moving that the membership will get the picture and start staying on topic. All they need is a little push in the right direction. With mods doing this and thread starters keeping their own threads on track (though some thread starters may not and this is where the mods come in???), we should make great improvements I think!


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