# Could Morgoth have been killed?



## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

Morgoth seems to me to have a lot of charachteristics of a mortal being. He is done bodily harm a number of times: seven wounds caused by Fingolfin including his foot, Thorondor marring his face, and the feeding of his living hand to Carcharoth (sp? to lazy to look it up but the big wolf that ate the silmaril). I couldn't see all of this happening to Manwe or Ulmo but since Melkor lost a lot of his power could he have been slain? Lets say for the sake of argument he grew weary of the world and had let Fingolfin say cut his head off what would happen? I see no reason why if his hand can be cut off his head couldn't what exactly would happen? I know its kinda far fetched but I always wondered.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 8, 2003)

Of course his body could be destroyed, that's why he was hiding in the deepest dungeon of Angband, and was reluctant to ever leave it. After the War of Wrath, his feet were hewn from under him and after bringing him to Aman, they executed him - meaning that they destroyed his body and cast his being into the Void.


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## Confusticated (Mar 8, 2003)

> I couldn't see all of this happening to Manwe or Ulmo but since Melkor lost a lot of his power could he have been slain?



Melkor, became permanently incarnated (took bodily form). He did this to have more control over the physical world.

He was as bound to his body as were elves and men, unlike the (other) Valar. Ulmo and Manwe for example, could clothe and unclothe themselves at will, Morgoth was stuck in his body.

As ithrynluin has pointed out, he was slain.

A lot can be learned about Melkor in HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring.


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## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

*Thanks*

Thanks Ill have to check out Morgoth's Ring haven't gotten that far in HoME yet.


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## Manwë Súlimo (Mar 11, 2003)

Morgoth can and will be slain. In shaping of Middle Earth it tells of how Túrin kills him with Gurthang. It doesn't say how he is killed just that he is. I would assume that he is killed by destroying or unmaking Arda. Since Morgoth diffused most of his power into the materials of Arda to have dominion over it, thus why evil never leaves Arda till the end, the only true way to kill him is to unmake the world. Which is prophesized in the Dagor Dagorath.

It's also interesting to not how the different substances of Arda took on Morgoths powers. Take water, silver, or mithril. They are considered pure and have little effect over others. Where gold has tremendous effect on others. People lust and kill over it, some of the atributes of Morgoth. Saurons Ring is even made of it.


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## Maerbenn (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo _
> *In shaping of Middle Earth it tells of how Túrin kills him with Gurthang. *


 You are referring to the Second Prophecy of Mandos which I think was replaced by the Prophecy of the Old Hope in _Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth_ published in _Morgoth's Ring_. It states that Eru himself will enter the world and heal all the marring from the beginning to the end.

Morgoth was physically killed after the War of Wrath. From _Myths Transformed_ in _Morgoth's Ring_:


> The war was successful, and ruin was limited to the small (if beautiful) region of Beleriand. Morgoth was thus actually made captive in physical form, and in that form taken as a mere criminal to Aman and delivered to Námo Mandos as judge – and executioner. He was judged, and eventually taken out of the Blessed Realm and executed: that is killed like one of the Incarnates.


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## Celebithil (Mar 11, 2003)

Thank you thats what I was looking for Maerbenn.


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## HelplessModAddi (Mar 11, 2003)

I was always under the impression that Morgoth would take another form, reenter Arda, do battle in Valinor and have his new form slain. (I have a little fantasy where he possesses someone and twists his body into a visage of his former majesty.) After his army is defeated, because of the total ruin that battle wrought, the world would be broken, destroying Morgoth the same way the breaking of the Ring destroyed Sauron. It would then be rebuilt, the Trees would be rekindled, the Pelori would be levelled, and the light of the resurrected Trees would reverse the Valar's and Elves' weariness and spread across the world. Happily ever after.

But back on topic, I don't think he could be "slain" without the destruction of the world. His physical form was still just rainment, despite the fact that he no longer had the power to "dress" or "undress" that form. Like if a human had his clothes carbon-sealed to his body.


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