# Who had more impact on the War of the Ring, Elrond or Galadriel?



## Ardamir the Blessed (Jun 14, 2003)

I had a bit of a discussion about this once and realised that it might prove to be a good thread.

So, let your arguments and opinions start coming!


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## Ithrynluin (Jun 14, 2003)

Welcome to the forums Herendil!

I think this is a very complicated question. Many issues to consider...

Elrond was the main force behind deciding what should be done with the Ring in the first place. He decided that there should be a Fellowship and he started things going. In Rivendell he also harboured the descendants of Isildur and the heir to the throne of Gondor.

Galadriel provided a much need rest and healing for the devastated Fellowship. Her gifts proved invaluable - e.g. the phial, the rope, lembas, elvish garments...

It's hard to decide, both seemed to have had an equal role in the matter, though of different nature.


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## Elendil3119 (Jun 14, 2003)

My vote goes to Galadriel, for a few reasons: her gift of the Phial to Frodo, which helped immensely in the passage through Torech Ungol. Had Sam and Frodo been without the Phial, it is possible that both of them would have been killed by Shelob, and the War of the Ring ultimately lost. Also, had she refused to harbor the Fellowship in Lothlorien after the passage through Moria, Sam would have not had the rope he used in the Emyn Muil, and there would have been no lembas to sustain the two hobbits on their trip to and into Mordor.

P.S. Welcome to the forum!


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## Beleg (Jun 15, 2003)

Very difficult to decide.
Elrond was the strategic helper, while Galadriel increased the moral and provided the fellowship with necessary equipment. We really can't weight them on one scale, although strictly speaking about War of the Ring, without counting any of the previous elements, my vote goes to Galadriel, only because she helped in staying the attack on Lorien and under her and Keleborn's command Elves conquered Dol-Guldur.


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## Lantarion (Jun 15, 2003)

I agree, Beleg. 
Elrond was very experienced, and had hands-on experience from such great matters as were being discussed at the Council of Elrond, so his opinion and tactical expertise were a great asset to the whole scenario. On the other hand, I can't help but realize that in the end the trip to the Sammath naur would have inevitably ben chosen as the only plausible solution. It is common sense! I tihnk that thuis conclusion was reached quicker because of Elrond.
I've always thought that Galadriel (and indeed all 'High-elves' who had lived in the light of the Two Trees) was greatly overrated, as a councillor in particular. What does it matter whether an Elf has actually been in the presence of the Trees of not? Does it affect their minds or _fëar_ or something drastically? 
Hehe, but no I think in the sense of the Quest that Galadriel contributed more.. Her glorious and peaceful kingdom of rest was just what the Fellowship needed after their ordeals. If it wasn't for that 'pit-stop' I doubt that they would have had the willpower to go on.
Her gifts, I think, were mostly symbolic and the fact that they proved to be invaluable at various points was simply a positive coincidence.


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## Ithrynluin (Jun 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *I've always thought that Galadriel (and indeed all 'High-elves' who had lived in the light of the Two Trees) was greatly overrated, as a councillor in particular. What does it matter whether an Elf has actually been in the presence of the Trees of not? Does it affect their minds or fëar or something drastically? *



Can't offer you any quotes Lanty, but those of the Quendi who actually lived in Valinor were 'enhanced' by the blissful light of the Trees and by living in the presence of the Valar and Maiar and being taught much by them. So yes, you could say that the High Elves are generally greater or wiser than those who never departed beyond Beleriand.


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## Flammifer (Jun 16, 2003)

Hey guys! I am new here! Anyway.................

I think that Galadriel's influence on the QUEST was greater than Elrond's.

The lembas waybread that the Elves of Lorien gave them was virtuous and energising. Without this it is said that they would have given up hope much sooner. (The actual quote is something very similar) If Galadriel had not been involved, there would have been no hope for the Quest.

Also, when Sam and Frodo are in Mordor, Sam says:

"If only the Lady could see us or hear us I'd say to her:
'Your Ladyship, all we want is light and water, just clean water and plain daylight...' "

Not long after, Frodo and Sam recieve both of these things, and Sam says:

"If I ever see the Lady again, I'll tell her! Light and now water!"

Tolkien makes the reader sure that Galadriel did indeed send these things, and they later proved to be essential (particularly the water).

Of course the Phial of the Light of Earendil was essential in beating Shelob - without this Shelob would have munched both of them up!

Elrond provided Arwen, Aragorn's wife, and also held the Council that decided the fate of the Ring. However in direct relationship to the Quest, I think Galadriel was the most helpful.

Cheers!


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## Elendil3119 (Jun 16, 2003)

Welcome to the forum!  I agree that Galadriel influenced the Quest more than Elrond, but I would say that Elrond and Galadriel had about the same influence on the War of the Ring. The Fellowship would not have gotten started like it did if it had not been for Elrond, but it also would not have gotten very far if it was not for Galadriel.


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 16, 2003)

Wow... what a great question. This would make a great debate in the debate tournament... You're my new favorite newbie!

Well anyways I think it's like comparing a red apple and a green apple; both are so good and tasty (not that Elrond and Galadriel are tasty er anything), and they both have their upsides. You really can't decide. But I bet some people on this forum can! Haha... Oh man this would be such a great debating tournament topic!!


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## Lantarion (Jun 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin_
> Can't offer you any quotes Lanty, but those of the Quendi who actually lived in Valinor were 'enhanced' by the blissful light of the Trees and by living in the presence of the Valar and Maiar and being taught much by them. So yes, you could say that the High Elves are generally greater or wiser than those who never departed beyond Beleriand.


Yes, I know that. I was just wondering why exactly.


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 16, 2003)

Because light'll do that to you in Arda . It just does!


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## Eriol (Jun 16, 2003)

We all know that a chain is only as strong as the weakest link... and we have no doubt that these two are among the strongest links, and therefore both were essential for the success of the Quest.

However, I think we can compare their roles.

Elrond was not only the Advisor -- he saved Frodo's life by sending Glorfindel, among others, to look for him. This was prompted by Gildor's news (see? an even weaker link), but the role of Glorfindel and particularly Asfaloth cannot be doubted. 

He also provided equipment, as Galadriel would do later. And, of course, advice. I think this role is the least important. That Council was full of smart guys . Certainly Gandalf could have done just as well -- and would have done if Elrond were not there.

Galadriel, also, did not merely provide equipment and advice. First of all, because her "equipment" was rather extraordinary, and saved the lives of everybody -- several times. (Think of the Lórien clothes, and how "no outsider had ever worn the garments of Lórien before" -- Galadriel was breaking a lot of precedents here).

But the main role of Galadriel at that juncture was to provide rest and a relief from Gandalf's loss. This is not a role that could have been provided by another Elf-Lord, at least not as well as she did it.

I find Galadriel to be more "irreplaceable" than Elrond. Both were indispensable, but Elrond could have been substituted by another Elf-Lord, such as Glorfindel -- I don't think there were any Elves left in Middle-Earth with the power to heal their hearts, rest their fatigue, and provide such equipment as Galadriel did.


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 16, 2003)

Hey you've convinced me... I'm with stupid *Points up*


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## Gil-Galad (Jun 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *Welcome to the forums Herendil!
> 
> 
> ...


Ithy,I can't believe what I'm saying now,but you should read it,having in mind Galadriel is your favourite elf.
I do think Galadriel had more impact.Actually she was the biggest opponent Sauron had .Sauron was still afraid of her wisdom and the possible choices she would make,the possible act she would do.


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## Tar-Elenion (Jun 16, 2003)

Who other than Elrond could have prevented Frodo from becoming a wraith?


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## Ithrynluin (Jun 17, 2003)

I knew it was wise not to decide for either one of them and attribute an equal role to both of them.  If it weren't for Elrond, Frodo would have been dead (could they have found a replacement bearer?) and if it weren't for Galadriel, they'd be finished off in Shelob's lair, and possibly some other places.


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## Lantarion (Jun 17, 2003)

This is in many ways just like the 'Legolas - Gimli Importance' thread..  Both are invaluable in many situations.


> Galadriel, also, did not merely provide equipment and advice. First of all, because her "equipment" was rather extraordinary...


LOL, exactly what are we discussing here..?


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## Eriol (Jun 17, 2003)

hehe, I think Gimli could say several hundred words about it...


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## Lasgalen (Jun 18, 2003)

I vote for Galadriel. Not only did she provide rest and gifts that have already been mentioned, but the forces of Lorien also helped fight against Dol Guldur.


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## Theoden_king (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lasgalen _
> *I vote for Galadriel. Not only did she provide rest and gifts that have already been mentioned, but the forces of Lorien also helped fight against Dol Guldur. *



Elrond provided his sons, thats a pretty big thing to give in my opinion. Also as Tar-Elenion said Elrond stopped Frodo from becoming a wraith


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 18, 2003)

But it's who contributed MORE, not who was more dispensible...

Galadriel:
-Phail
-Rope
-Lembas
-Bow (shot down the Nazgûl)
-Counsel
-Shelter/Recovery
-Forces in the War

Elrond:
-Anti-Wraithdom
-Counsel
-Sons
-Daughter
-Mirovour
-Shelter/Recovery

I vote Galadriel


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## True_Twilight_ (Jun 18, 2003)

Hello everyone i am new. Though I have had alot of thought on this matter.

My vote is both Elrond and Galadriel (though i wish to say Galadriel) even though she provided the equitment needed I personally believe Elrond provided just as much. Such as making the Fellowship and beside that choosing the best men and dwarf and elves for the job and all those other creatures in between.

As well because the ring could NOT have been destroyed if Elrond did not choose to keep Samwise part of the company.

And ofcourse Galadriel because of the physical, mental and spiritual equitment she provided to the company in again which withought that equitment they could defintely not have destroyed the ring.

Thank you for listening to my boring passage and I hope that I intrested at least one person.


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## Lasgalen (Jun 19, 2003)

Greetings and welcome True_Twilight. You brought up a good point about Elrond that I had not thought of before. Without letting Sam into the fellowship, Frodo would never have made it to Mt. Doom.


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## Theoden_king (Jun 19, 2003)

And if Elrond had stopped Merry and Pippin joining the fellowship, the battle of Helms Deep would have had a very different outcome, without them to rally the ents up, none of the trees would have made their way to Helms Deep so the orcs could have made it back to Saruman and rebuilt their forces ready to attack Rohan again.


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## True_Twilight_ (Jun 19, 2003)

> Greetings and welcome True_Twilight. You brought up a good point about Elrond that I had not thought of before. Without letting Sam into the fellowship, Frodo would never have made it to Mt. Doom.




Thank you Lasgalen; and right you are, you took the words right out of my mouth




> And if Elrond had stopped Merry and Pippin joining the fellowship, the battle of Helms Deep would have had a very different outcome, without them to rally the ents up, none of the trees would have made their way to Helms Deep so the orcs could have made it back to Saruman and rebuilt their forces ready to attack Rohan again.



Right you are Theoden_king


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 19, 2003)

Ok.... Now if we add Elrond's Foresight (Merry, Pippin, Sam) to the list, we're all tied up at 7 important things each!


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## ely (Jun 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> Elrond was the main force behind deciding what should be done with the Ring in the first place. He decided that there should be a Fellowship and he started things going.



Well, maybe if Elrond hadn't been there, Gandalf would have managed to do that.

So my vote goes to Galadriel for already mentioned reasons - the gifts she gave the members of the fellowship and the rest she provided them.


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## Elendil3119 (Jun 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *I knew it was wise not to decide for either one of them and attribute an equal role to both of them.  If it weren't for Elrond, Frodo would have been dead (could they have found a replacement bearer?) and if it weren't for Galadriel, they'd be finished off in Shelob's lair, and possibly some other places. *


I wonder, was Frodo the only one who could have accomplished the Quest? In other words, would it _really_ have mattered if he had died?


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## ely (Jun 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elendil3119 _
> I wonder, was Frodo the only one who could have accomplished the Quest?



Well, I started a new thread about it here


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## jimmyboy (Jul 4, 2003)

Theoden, what you said is exactly what I first thought of when I read the title to this thread. Elrond, among many other things, gave the things most important to him: his children, both of his sons and his only precious daughter! But beyond these invaluable givings, he was involved in the war of the Ring for as long as there has been a Ring. He was instumental in the battle when the Ring was first taken from Sauron, and he then tried (and very very nearly succeeded) to have it thrown into Orodruin the first time. Even before that he was fighting against Sauron and his forces, which is, if I remember correctly, how he ended up in Rivendell. He led many elves there and establised it as a base and haven against the dark forces. Not only that, but like Galadriel (one of the despicable children of Feanor...) he was a Ring-bearer, and with that ring did much over the ages to help preserve the good in Middle-earth.

Then there's the previously-mentioned priceless aid to Frodo and the Quest (before Frodo knew there was a Quest) when Elrond saved his life from the Wraiths and the wound he received from them. (Thanks in this also goes to Glorfindel, who has done his share in the long war against the Ring and the Wraiths.)

Elrond's advice and wisdom, and all of his actions, have been very necessary in this long war. Except for maybe Gandalf, nobody IMO did more in the long run against Sauron than Elrond. By contrast, aside from the Dark lords, nobody except for Feanor and his children, and maybe Isildur with his selfish actions, have done more to cause hurt and pain to those who live in Middle-earth. That includes Galadriel, though it's true that she and Celeborn did do much at times to fight against the dark forces. Still, when all is considered, Elrond by far in the winner in this debate. Nothing he did, that I know of, even compares to the evils that Feanor and his children did, so all of this is a HUGE stirke against Galadriel.


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## Malbeth (Jul 5, 2003)

err... Galadriel is Fëanor's niece, not his daughter, did not participate in the kin-slaying and, though proud, has always been on the side of the good guys (for instance, she counciled Celebrimbor to not accept Sauron's ring-making knowledge... if her advice had been taken, there would be no ring, and Sauron would have been destroyed in the end of the second age).

Isildur, though he fell under the ring's influence, is a great hero, who had the misfortune of getting the ring so close to Mount Doom... I'm not sure if anyone, even Elrond or Galadriel, would be able to throw the ring into the fire...


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## jimmyboy (Jul 7, 2003)

Hmm...are you sure? It's been a while since I last read the Sil (OK, about a year or so) but I was pretty sure Galadriel was the daughter of Feanor.

Well, if you're right then you're right. I'll have to go back and re-read that part of the Sil. If it's the case that she's NOT his daughter, then of course she's not guilty of those ugly crimes that his family committed. Then that would mean that she's a total good guy after all, yet still I'd say that Elrond is my pick for the one who did the most overall.


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## Malbeth (Jul 7, 2003)

I admit, I'm not sure about who was more important during the War, Elrond or Galadriel... I was only defending the Lady's honor, when you said she was responsible for the evil of Fëanor and his sons.

But, if Galadriel's advice had been followed in Hollin, Sauron would be destroyed in the Second Age...


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## Dwimmerlaik (Jul 7, 2003)

Aren't we missing the forest for the trees?
Isn't it immaterial whether any Elf lord had any tactical or strategic impetus throughout the war?
Surely their input could largely be seen as self serving or at best a delaying action on behalf of the descendants of Numenor whom I am sure the Elf's deemed the most likely to uphold ME's true values.

Surely by the near end of the third age,no one people or race could withstand Mordor.But a coalition of one common purpose could.

The Elf's age was largely over and they knew it(or at least they should have,).The elves stayed harboured in their domains and when at last the last great war was upon all ME,all their resources seemed divided on retention of their own power bases,all that could be said of their aid to the fellowship(and thus all free peoples),was sage advice and gifts to be used frugally.Certainly these were hero's gifts.

The main point I believe,whether Elrond or Galadriel had more or less impact on the war of the ring , can only be seen as their definitive support of it's destruction.

Ultimately the fellowship being more than a sum of it's own parts,should always answer the call of all peoples.

Regardswimmerlaik


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## Aglarband (Apr 10, 2004)

ely said:


> Well, maybe if Elrond hadn't been there, Gandalf would have managed to do that.
> 
> So my vote goes to Galadriel for already mentioned reasons - the gifts she gave the members of the fellowship and the rest she provided them.


Yet, if Gandalf made it out of the Mines of Moria Galadriel might not have give near as much to the Company. Your logic can be flipped against you.

Elrond I say, for he was as important before LOTR as Galadriel, and gets many more chapters. We all forget The Hobbit! He housed Bilbo and 12 dwarves! I don't think an Elf has hosued that many since the Elder Days!


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