# Toughest girl on the block



## Hama (Feb 19, 2002)

I had started a poll earlier asking who was the most beautiful woman or elf maiden in ME history. I got some messages attacking it for being sexist, so I decided to ask this question of all of you. Who of all the following is the toughest nut to crack among the females of Middle earth. Who is the greatest threat to Morgoth/Sauron. Or who is the most skilled in the deadly arts, or who would win if they all got into one large messy catfight. Interpret it as you want. This is also partially in response to those who say that Tolkien downplays the role of women.


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## Woo (Feb 19, 2002)

Its has to be Luthien!
Why?
Eowyn's a great woman but has a an infactuation for Aragorn and confuses it with love, and although she punch up the witch king of Angmar she herself got punch up i.e. her arm was broken.
But i got lots a love for Eowyn

Galadriel is probably one of the strongest in magic and mind of elvish race during the third age due to the fact that she dewelt in Valinor during the time of the trees and the light of them can probably can be seen in her eyes.
but she only just resisted the temptation of the ring of Sauron and she herself with Celeborn and shadowfax could not attack Mordor and punch up Sauron straight on nor even attack Uttumno and punch up Melkor!

Arwen, well all we know is that she is a decendant of Luthien and she sifts between Lothlorien and Rivendell looking pretty. I dont think Arwen and Aragorn with shadow fax could punch up Sauron let alone Melkor!

Now Luthien now escapes from her Fathers kingdom and rescues her lover Beren from the pits of Melkor and punches Melkor so hard he drops to the ground in just round one (well she does it in her own way!).
Luthien is half Maia and half Elf, i mean what more could one want, she has almost the best of both worlds and in my personal opinon she has to the greatest female ever to grace Arda and all the rest are just unintentional mockeries of her in the most possitive way possible!
Just her dancing can leave ur mind in a trance like her mothers.
What do u think Hama?


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## Mormegil (Feb 19, 2002)

Luthien definately. Half Elf, half Maia. 
Enough said.


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## Grond (Feb 19, 2002)

There were only two males who ever stood before Melkor in direct conflict and neither took him off his feet. One was Beren and the other Fingolfin.

There was only one female who ever stood before Melkor in direct conflict and she caused him to slump to the floor. Her name was Luthien.


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## menchu (Feb 20, 2002)

I am hesitating between Lúthien and Eowyn, cause I consider both used "what they had" in the best way they found. I mean, Lúthien being half Maia, half Elf, knew how to get the right "answer" from her magic powers, her dancing skills and her mind; while Eowyn, being a woman and having "less power", also did her utmost from her physical strength, her mind (she wasn't recognized when dressed as a rider) and her resolution.

So... I suppose I won't vote if it can be double.


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## DGoeij (Feb 20, 2002)

Eowyn. The other three are elves. 

If referring to female character, I'd say Luthien. The trouble she went through......


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DGoeij _
> *Eowyn. The other three are elves.
> 
> If referring to female character, I'd say Luthien. The trouble she went through...... *




Luthein followed closely by Galadriel
I think it said in powerfullness behind feanor it was galadriel?? And Luthein was half maia i think that is a little unfair since maia are sort of like semi-gods. But galadriel was the most ppowerful elf during 2nd, 3rd and after fingolfin fell in those ages. Although luthein sort of cancels out elf-maia????


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## Camille (Feb 25, 2002)

Luthien .. no doubt I liked what Grond said she was the only (except Tulkas of course  ) that stood before melkor and defeat him..
She was very brave!!!


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Camille _
> *Luthien .. no doubt I liked what Grond said she was the only (except Tulkas of course  ) that stood before melkor and defeat him..
> She was very brave!!! *




yes what she did with beren and huan was a great acheivement and should be praised but she was half maia even though she had the most power my vote goes to Galadriel.


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## baraka (Feb 26, 2002)

Definitely Luthien. She in a way defeated Melkor. Grond you were there what happened?


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *Definitely Luthien. She in a way defeated Melkor. Grond you were there what happened? *




he got knocked the crap out!!!!


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## Hama (Feb 27, 2002)

After much consideration, I would have to conclude that the argument clearly goes in Luthien's favor. She goes to show that one's capability in arms is not always a measure of strenght. Galadriel would be second. After all she is ranked second after Feanor among the Noldor. Eowyn, although not elven, I would rank third over Arwen. After all, Arwen plays no active role in the war, but is more of a supporter. Eowyn did kill the nazgul lord. I wonder, if things had ever come to a head between Arwen and Eowyn over Aragorn, if anything would have happened. I think Arwen beat Eowyn head-to-head. She had a lot of potential power like her grandmother but never was able to show it. She would show that mortal woman who she was. So perhaps I would place them tied.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Hama _
> *After much consideration, I would have to conclude that the argument clearly goes in Luthien's favor. She goes to show that one's capability in arms is not always a measure of strenght. Galadriel would be second. After all she is ranked second after Feanor among the Noldor. Eowyn, although not elven, I would rank third over Arwen. After all, Arwen plays no active role in the war, but is more of a supporter. Eowyn did kill the nazgul lord. I wonder, if things had ever come to a head between Arwen and Eowyn over Aragorn, if anything would have happened. I think Arwen beat Eowyn head-to-head. She had a lot of potential power like her grandmother but never was able to show it. She would show that mortal woman who she was. So perhaps I would place them tied. *




This is what i would have


1 Luthien
2 Galadriel
3 Arwen (she is elven and comes from the race of luthien)(half elven)
4 Eowyn had a go at the nazgulk but nearly lost her life.


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## Khamul (Mar 2, 2002)

Definately Luthien


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## Harad (Mar 3, 2002)

not even listed.

1. Ungoliant


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## Hama (Mar 3, 2002)

Thought about adding her...did I was thinking more about the enemies of Melkor.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Harad _
> *not even listed.
> 
> 1. Ungoliant *




Not as powerful as luthien comes in at number2. Luthien beat evil ungol.. nearly did.


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## Eonwe (Mar 18, 2002)

Varda is the best of all, again not listed. She made all of the stars, very underrated.

Luthien is absolutely amazing. She makes Morgoth and basically everything in hell go to sleep. She makes Mandos get all emotional. She is arguably the greatest being in all of JRRT's works.

I agree with the power that Eowyn had, she did a great job, and was very brave.


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## aragil (Mar 18, 2002)

If Ungoliant is in there, then shouldn't Melian be in there as well? I mean, she did held Morgoth out of Doriath with her girdle. Isn't that slightly impressive. What about Varda, Yavanna, etc. for that matter. They were all strong female characters that Tolkien wrote about. Not to mention Haleth from the Silmarillion, the leader of an entire race of men, and a strong independent woman along the line of Janet Reno.


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## Hama (Mar 18, 2002)

I did not include the races of the Valar and Maiar - only elvenmaidens and women, and those who played reasonably active roles in the wars against the dark powers. Which is why you do not see Ungoliant, Varda, Yavanna or Melian. Imagine Eowyn taking on Ungoliant? Or even Varda taking on Arwen? You cannot compare the two.


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## Chymaera (Mar 31, 2002)

Luthien defeated Sauron 
put Morgorth asleep(with 3 hours of vacation slides)


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## Elfarmari (Mar 31, 2002)

Chymaera,
I love your signature!! It's hilarious!! Did you make it up yourself? 

I agree about Luthien, what other elf or human was able to put Morgorth to sleep?


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## Confusticated (Sep 15, 2010)

Luthien the most "powerful"yes, but she was half a Maia. 

But honestly, I find Eowyn stands out as stong and impressive among those in the poll. At least Luthien had Beren with her, and they would have died together. Eowyn endured so much alone. And though she may have failed, being only a simple human, I do not doubt she would have attempted what Luthien did. The stories of Middle-earth have a lot of strong women who endured unimaginable suffering.


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## YayGollum (Sep 17, 2010)

I went with Galadriel. 

Arwen is not even in the running, for myself, since we barely get to know the lady, so she didn't even get much of a chance to display much toughness. She doesn't seem particularly tough, either way. 

Luthien isn't in the running, for myself, either, since she is the daughter of some supposedly great elf and a particularly awesome Maia. She did plenty of cool things and certainly had a tough will, but, eh, she was like unto a god, and I would not have found it so unbelievable if she had done even crazier things. 

Eowyn is plenty tough, sure, but she is a human, more accustomed to getting her hands dirty, and had Rohirrim for relatives. Those dudes are tough as a way of life. She grew up with it. Toughness is a matter of course, for her. 

Galadriel, although I am not a fan, stood up to Feanor, the greatest. Although it is crazy to disagree with Feanor, the greatest, it is still plenty tough. Yay for an indomitable spirit, I type.

And, for my extra nomination ---> Haleth. Superly as well as achingly awesome and crazy tough.


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## Confusticated (Sep 17, 2010)

But doesn't everone aquire toughness as a necessity? Either that or it is forced onto them by parents?


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## YayGollum (Sep 17, 2010)

Well, I suppose everyone has some degree of toughness, even if it's negligible. Arwen just isn't tough enough to be fittingly attached to an adjective like tough. Luthien has crazy magical powers that make her seem tough, and she got them via genetics. Entirely unfair. She is out of the running. Eowyn and Galadriel have plenty of reasons to be attached to the tough adjective, and I figure that Galadriel is tougher, mostly due to, as far as I can tell, how she was awesomely independent in acquiring toughness.


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## Prince of Cats (Sep 20, 2010)

YayGollum said:


> Well, I suppose everyone has some degree of toughness, even if it's negligible. Arwen just isn't tough enough to be fittingly attached to an adjective like tough. *Luthien has crazy magical powers that make her seem tough, and she got them via genetics. Entirely unfair. She is out of the running.* Eowyn and Galadriel have plenty of reasons to be attached to the tough adjective, and I figure that Galadriel is tougher, mostly due to, as far as I can tell, how she was awesomely independent in acquiring toughness.


 
Toughest girl on the block. If a brawl starts between the four at the bus stop, I'd bet on Luthien. Didn't she like fist fight Sauron or something? :*D Galadriel might be able to stare everyone down so it didn't come to that, though. Semi-demi-god or not, ten chips on L. Arwen's the big wild card here. Eowyn was brave, but it was all spiteful gender-issue instigation :*p


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## YayGollum (Sep 20, 2010)

Oh, well, if you're going by who beats who in a fight, sure, Luthien would win. I would call a superly as well as physically tough dude who is also an idiot exactly as tough as a superly as well as mentally tough person who starts sweating after walking halfway across a room equally tough, though. Luthien had plenty of physical (and slash or creepily magical) and mental toughness, but so did Galadriel. I figure that Galadriel having the mental toughness to philosphy it out with Feanor, who is the greatest is more impressive than Luthien's magical sneaky powerses.


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## childoferu (Dec 19, 2010)

I wonder if Arwen, Luthien, or Galadriel could have stood up to the Witch-King of Angmar with just a sword and shield and no (Elven/Maian) powers?


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## Afalstein (Jan 3, 2011)

Luthien, definitely, though she is more a "artifice" kind of tough lady, not raw power, like Galadriel or Eowyn. She doesn't exactly shoot lightning from her finger tips, but she can trick and bluff even Morgoth.

If we were talking raw power, I'd say Galadriel. If fist-fight without magic, then Eowyn, maybe.

Who was Luthien's mother? Wasn't she something of a enchantress too?


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## Gúthwinë (Jan 3, 2011)

Luthien definitely has the votes, I think the pawnage over Melkor beats the "Barely scrapped through" fight with the Witch King


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## spirit (Mar 6, 2011)

Grond said:


> There were only two males who ever stood before Melkor in direct conflict and neither took him off his feet. One was Beren and the other Fingolfin.
> 
> There was only one female who ever stood before Melkor in direct conflict and she caused him to slump to the floor. Her name was Luthien.



Nicely put, and agreed. 

And also, to be fair, Eowyn is pretty tough for a human female, so got to acknowledge her too. She's already got the bravery, and if had extra powers, she'd be kickass! :*p


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