# The Red Maw Vs. The Great Worm



## Bard the Bowman (Dec 15, 2011)

All right, it says clearly in the Silmarillion that when Carcharoth ingested the Silmaril, his rampage through Beleriand was the greatest terror besides the winged dragons in the War of Wrath. With that in mind, how was Carcharoth more terrible than Glaurung? I really can't picture Huan taking Glaurung down. 

Also it brings up the question, was Smaug in the War of Wrath?


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## Bucky (Dec 15, 2011)

Also it brings up the question, was Smaug in the War of Wrath?


No.

Do i have to dig through the Appendices to provide the quotes to show that the dragons began to 'breed again' in the Third Age in the Withered Heath?

'And the greatest of these was Smaug' says Thorin to Bilbo in The Hobbit.


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 16, 2011)

Oh. So what you're saying Bucky is that although no dragons survived from the War of Wrath somehow they started to breed again. Hmmm... Are you saying it isn't at all possible that Smaug was one of the surviving dragons that started to breed. 

P.S. Please, no fighting, no biting.


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## Elthir (Dec 16, 2011)

Hmm, a couple references to the dragon's 'young days' at least...



> 'He had a wicked and a wily heart, and he knew his guesses were not far out, though he suspected that the Lake-men were at the back of the plans, and that most of the plunder was meant to stop there in the town by the shore that in his young days had been called Esgaroth.' (...)
> 
> 
> 'Revenge! The King under the Mountain is dead and where are his kin that dare seek revenge? Girion Lord of Dale is dead, and I have eaten his people like a wolf among sheep, and where are his sons' sons that dare approach me? I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong, strong, Thief in the Shadows!' he gloated.
> ...



In a post-Lord of the Rings text Tolkien mused that _Esgaroth_ was: 'not _Sindarin_ (though perhaps 'Sindarized' in shape)... ' 

_If_ Tolkien were to ultimately decide that _Esgaroth_ was a Sindarized form, I would think it would have to await Sindarin coming East with the migration of Thranduil and others, in any case.


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 16, 2011)

Certainly it could be Sindarin. And why shouldn't it be? Smaug's young days would be around the time of the War of Wrath, so the reference to the town as Esgaroth certainly would have occurred in his "young days", as Oropher and the Sindar would have been flying from Beleriand. 

Also I think we need to examine the phrase "the warriors of old". Now, what do they mean by that? Girion and the Men of Dale? I think not. Certainly their like has been seen again. Perhaps it means the Elves of Valinor.


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 20, 2011)

Come on people let's hear your thoughts, both on the subject of Smaug and the Red Maw.


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## Prince of Cats (Dec 20, 2011)

I could imagine Carcharoth being pretty terrible. A giant wolf that Morgoth put his will into - picture in its wild rage the fear of townsfolk, and it could run back off to the woods after its attacks and the region would be covered in fear waiting for where it will appear next ... I imagine Glaurung could kill far more soldiers on the battlefield than Carcharoth but I think the gore and paranoia of the mutant rabid wolf could be at least equally as terrifying.

Now if Glaurung _flew_, that might be different


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 20, 2011)

But rather than hiding back in the woods and filling the village with fear, Glaurung would just burn them all.


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