# The Battle of the Three Armies



## Odin (May 10, 2015)

I would like to propose a hypothetical debate. Let's say that for some reason the armies of Orcs and Wargs never appear at the Lonely Mountain. The impending conflict between the Armies of Elves and Laketown Men and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills is not halted and carnage breaks out.

The Elves led by Thranduil and the Men led by Bard were on the same side, and were ready to take up arms against the Dwarves of the Iron Hills, led by Fain Ironfoot. If the Orcs and Wargs never show up, who would be victorious if the Three Armies fought to the death over the treasure within the Lonely Mountain. In addition, which side would Gandalf the Grey choose to stand with? The Grey Wanderer had no quarrel with either party, but he would have been caught in the middle.







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## MasterBaggins (May 10, 2015)

I do like your point there, I'd also like to point out that Bilbo would be torn about this as well. He'd like to help his dear friends the dwarves, yet would not like to shed the blood of elves and men.


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## Odin (May 10, 2015)

MasterBaggins said:


> I do like your point there, I'd also like to point out that Bilbo would be torn about this as well. He'd like to help his dear friends the dwarves, yet would not like to shed the blood of elves and men.



Indeed, Bilbo would be very torn between defending his friends and his natural peaceful demeanor. After doing some additional research I discovered that there only five hundred Dwarves under the command of Ironfoot, while Thranduil commanded over a thousand Elven warriors which were bolstered by the two hundred armed men of Laketown led by Bard the Bowman. Given the fact that the Dwarves were outnumbered more than two to one, I can't see Dain Ironfoot achieving victory, especially when his foes were mainly warriors of the Eldar who had many centuries or even millenia of battle experience. If the Orcs and Wargs arrived even a day or two later, I think that the army of Thranduil would have slain the majority of Dain's forces, possibly even all of them as I doubt the Dwarves would retreat with their kin trapped in Erebor.

Once the Dwarvish army was dealt with, Thranduil would send his forces to storm Erebor and bring Thorin and his Company out in chains. Whether the Elven-King would have the Dwarves executed is uncertain, though he did them no harm when he captured them before, so it's unlikely he would murder them in cold blood. But he would certainly take the treasure of Erebor for himself and the Lake-men. The fate of the Arkenstone would be interesting to know in this scenario, but I can't see Thranduil letting Thorin have that gem, if only out of spite.

I'd like to hear other people's opinion on the hypothetical Battle of the Three Armies. Does anyone think that the Dwarves under Dain Ironfoot could have prevailed and drove Thranduil's army away from the Lonely Mountain?


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## MasterBaggins (May 11, 2015)

Yes, I do have to agree with you there yet again. 500 dwarves against 1,000 elves? Well, if the laketown men helped the elves, the elves would win for sure. Yet, I feel as if the men had a sudden change in heart (they most likely wouldn't) and helped the dwarves, it would be about a 50/50 chance.


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## Odin (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm not sure if anyone has seen the Extended Edition of the Third Hobbit film, but in it the Elves actually engage the Dwarves in battle prior to the arrival of the were-worms and Azog's army. The results of Elves vs Dwarves are actually completely different from what I had expected when I first made this thread so many months ago.

The battle begins with Dain Ironfoot commanding the Dwarf Goat Cavalry to charge the Elven ranks. It's evident in the Extended Edition that the Dwarf Army is considerably larger that what we see in the Theatre Edition. Dain brings cavalry as well as a number of strong ballistas.

The Elves answer the Dwarf charge with a swift hail of their deadly arrows, with Thranduil arrogantly expecting the Dwarves to fall like ripe grain before a sickle. But Dain cleverly orders the ballistas to fire and in an amazing display they shatter the Elven volley in mid-air. The ballista bolts continue forward and crash into the Elven ranks, cutting down dozens of Elves.

The cavalry charge crashes into the Elves lines and though the immortals raise their pikes to counter, the Dwarf Goats are pretty sturdy and break through in some places. The battle quickly devolves into a melee with Dwarves and Elves fighting face to face,. Dain charges their ranks himself and knocks down a half-dozen Elves in one charge. 

The battle then comes to an abrupt end as Azog's army shows up and the Dwarves run off to fight as seen in the original edition. But the conflict between Elves and Dwarves was a lot more even than I expected.


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## Beorn84 (Dec 2, 2015)

I wasnt gonna go for the ext edition hobbit but thats sounding pretty cool i will still wait till it comes in a complete set of all 3


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## Thorin (Dec 30, 2015)

I got BoFA:EE in the mail a few weeks ago and am going to watch it for the first time with my students when we are finished with the book. I don't like the idea of the Elves and Dwarves fighting a battle at all...but what do you expect from PJ? All I want is to see more of Beorn fighting as the theater version sucked royally in showing that.


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