# Melkor or Morgoth



## HLGStrider (Nov 28, 2003)

I was just thinking somewhat randomly on Melkor and realized that I always refer to him as Melkor even though the Valar no longer call him that and in fact most of the time he is referred to as Morgoth. . .but for some reason, I don't _like_ the name Morgoth. It sounds stupid some how and not at all threatening. Why would anyone want a villian named Morgoth, no matter how "evil" the meaning.

Melkor has less meaning but more menace.

So which do you prefer?


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## Manveru (Nov 28, 2003)

I like to call him _"Blackheart"_... in the manner of Ungoliant or... "craven and lord of slaves" as been said by Fingolfin


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 28, 2003)

Either one is fine by me. I do find 'Morgoth' more threatening and reminiscent of something evil and horrible.



> It sounds stupid some how and not at all threatening. Why would anyone want a villian named Morgoth, no matter how "evil" the meaning.



It all depends on what a particular word reminds you of - past experience, something else you heard somewhere that rings a bell...I think the majority of readers wouldn't agree with you on 'Morgoth' sounding stupid.


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## Turin (Nov 28, 2003)

I like Morgoth, it sounds more like a dark lord than Melkor, more threatening and evil.


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## Rangerdave (Nov 28, 2003)

But those of us who know him well just call him Bob

 
RD


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## elf_queen (Nov 28, 2003)

Morgoth sounds eviler.


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## Arvedui (Nov 28, 2003)

I try to use Melkor when referring to the time before the slaying of the Two Trees, and Morgoth for the time after that.


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## HLGStrider (Nov 28, 2003)

> But those of us who know him well just call him Bob





> Morgoth sounds eviler.


RD is right, however. Morgoth isn't nearly as evil as Bob.



> I try to use Melkor when referring to the time before the slaying of the Two Trees, and Morgoth for the time after that.



Too much thinking for me.

I think it is the Goth sound I just don't like. Goth. . .too. . .cliche?

Melkor sounds very intelligent, and I would say that K is the evilest letter in the alphabet. C is the good form of K.


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## Paul (Dec 3, 2003)

BOB IS A SCARY NAME


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## Eriol (Dec 3, 2003)

Why not use his full names? Double names are more menacing somehow.

Melkor Morgoth (as the HoME X essay) or Morgoth Bauglir (as the Sil calls him in several occasions) are pretty good evil names.

I must confess that I think Morgoth more evil, and Melkor more seductive. I don't know if this is my projection on the words or an original feeling, from the time when I had not read the books.

I'll ask around to non-readers . This should be the best way to sort that out.


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## FoolOfATook (Dec 3, 2003)

In conversations, I find that I tend to alternate between the two names, for no apparent reason.

But, if I had to choose (as I apparently do ), I'll go with Morgoth.


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## HLGStrider (Dec 3, 2003)

You don't have to choose, exactly. You can vote for Dark Helmet.


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## celebdraug (Dec 5, 2003)

Morgoth sound more professionally evil IMO


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## Deleted member 3778 (Dec 5, 2003)

Well, "Melkor" sounds alot like "milk-man" in norwegian, so I've gotten used to calling him Morgoth. (even though I hate the word "goth" too >.<)


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## HLGStrider (Apr 5, 2004)

I should've put milkman as the forth option. . .Now we know Melkor's secret identity! Milkman of evil!


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## Confusticated (Apr 5, 2004)

HLGStrider said:


> I should've put milkman as the forth option. . .Now we know Melkor's secret identity! Milkman of evil!


It helps explain why he was able to get in among those Noldor so closely in Tirion. 

I think Melkor sounds better than Morgoth. Morgoth (Sindarin in Middle-earth) was originally Moringotto (Quenya, spoken in Valinor)... which is kind of cool sounding.

But I think my use of the names is similar to Arvedui. Also, I am apt to use _Melko_ if writing about the Lost Tales, where that is his name.


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## Rangerdave (Apr 5, 2004)

Domo Moringotto Mister Roboto?



RD


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## Confusticated (Apr 5, 2004)

Rangerdave said:


> Domo Moringotto Mister Roboto?



What's more, the root *DOMO-* is listed in the Etymologies in HoME 5, _and_ it's "faint, dim" and probably related to another entry meaning "night".


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## Melian_the_Maya (Apr 11, 2004)

For me, Morgoth is the better neme, and that's because phonetically in my language and in most of the languages I speak, the sounds org put together sound threatening somehow. Besides, Morg is a different spelling for morgue, which is not the most beautiful place on Earth or Middle Earth...
Melkor sounds too nice. The sound l is too soft in that word... it's simply not "evil" enough for me.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 12, 2004)

I usually vary my use of Norgoth/Melkor so I do not have a "set" title.


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## Confusticated (Apr 12, 2004)

Hey Inderjit, how are you doing? You okay?

You forgot to make a joke in your last post.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 12, 2004)

*SL to H*

Whoops! Well to compensate I will make even more tepid, tasteless innuendo jokes. Such as the reference to Morgoth's "relationship" with that horrible ogre woman from BoLT and their "lovechild" Gothmog. As Nom once said, he tried to accost Lúthien so he obviously. had some taste in women, so why date that horrible ogre/troll woman? Answers on a postcard, or on a new thread started by some outstandingly perverse member.

Was he drunk? Desperate? Both? Do you think she looked like that Jabba the Hut, with a slight variation on the syntaxical content of the latter's name? Was that things name jabba the "Hut" by the way?


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## Thalion (Feb 6, 2011)

I have always called him Melkor whatever the time period of the story. because Melkor is the creature that tainted the elvs and turned them into orcs, Melkor is the one who slew Finwe, and Melkor is the one Stabed the 2 trees thus sending the world into darkness.

_"Morgoth is the fear, Melkor is the Man" ------_ Alex Stribley (Me) lol


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## Bucky (Feb 13, 2011)

It's really not a matter of toe-mate-o versus toe-mah-toe......

It's a matter of time frame. His name was Malkor in the beginning, up until he stole the Silmarils, At that point, Feanor named him "Morgoth" and he returned to Middle-earth and bore that name forever more (although he still referred to himself as "Melkor, master of the fates of Arda" when talking to Hurin). 

'Morgoth' is presented in 'HoME' Volume Ten, 'Morgoth's Ring' in the section entitled 'Arda Marred' #7 as being a being of much lesser power than Melkor was in his beginning because he had poured his power into the various beings he sought to have dominion over - Orcs, Trolls, Dragons, etc. The very being of Arda in fact. So much so, Tolkien states: 

'Sauron was 'greater' effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth was at the end of the First.'

Think about it: 'Morgoth' had lost the ability to change shape; He had to call on Balrogs to help him escape Ungoliant, etc....

Right before that, as Melkor, he was escaping in the form of a cloud.....

The killing of the Two Trees and possibly Finwe and possibly company at Formenos had a huge impact on him losing power apparently, although he was constantly losing power right from the beginning of his turn to evil.

So, from the time he was named Morgoth, he was no Melkor.

It's more than a name change; it's a lesser state of being.


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## Pink Fealinde (Mar 8, 2011)

Personally I prefer Morgoth... It has something of a deep, profound sound, sort of a "Death Metal" feel that I think fits the Enemy so well. That said, I think the Black Speech sounds really cool... Ugly I suppose, but cool nonetheless.


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## Mithrandir-Olor (May 1, 2011)

It depends on the context of the refrence. Like the difference between useig Lucifer or Satan.


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## DerBerggeist (Mar 17, 2012)

I've always just liked the named Melkor more. I think it's because I've always liked calling things by their original name (although I know that his original name is in the Valarin tongue, which I believe there is no record of). That being said, "Morgoth Bauglir" is just full of evil, and describes Melkor very well.


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## Confusticated (Mar 17, 2012)

Pink Fealinde said:


> Personally I prefer Morgoth... It has something of a deep, profound sound, sort of a "Death Metal" feel that I think fits the Enemy so well. That said, I think the Black Speech sounds really cool... Ugly I suppose, but cool nonetheless.



You do know that "Morgoth" _is_ the name of a death metal band, right?


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