# Why did sauron need the other rings?



## Paul (Mar 30, 2004)

Why did sauron try to find the other rings of power when he needed only the One to cover Middle-Earth in darkness?


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 31, 2004)

Although the One alone was extremely potent and would lead him to almost certain victory gradually, Sauron could have certainly made use of the other great Rings of Power, since these were precious artifacts. It's always better for you to possess a powerful object than your opponent.


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## meneldor (Mar 31, 2004)

Sauron had to have doubts in a full victory in middle-earth. Maybe he thought that with these rings would eat away any resistance making the conquest easier? Maybe he thought of turning a race towards his dominion?I dont know , good question though.


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## Lantarion (Mar 31, 2004)

I think the answer might be fairly simple: greed. In practice and in my view, Sauron did not need anything but the One, because it was the one which controlled all of the rest of the nineteen remaining Rings. Then again, it was apparent that the Seven could not be controlled by Sauron, in which case it was only logical for him to seke them out and acquire them; not only because he could use their inherent magical abilities (which were..?) and twist them to evil, but also to deprive his enemies the Dwarves of one of their main sources of prosperity. 
As for the Three, I think he desired them mainly for greed; their potential magic-wise must have been quite powerful indeed, as the Gwaith-i-Mírdain probably did the most work with their 'own' Rings. And they were only three, whereas they gave away Seven and Nine.
And the Nine we know about; that was actually an ingenious move from Sauron, through the Nine he gained some extremely useful servants whom he was able to completely control.


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## Morgoth Bauglir (Mar 31, 2004)

*another question, then*

Well this question brings about another question, however; why did Sauron create Rings in the first place? Surely, to sustain himself in the mortal world, should some force destroy his body, but it's apparent that that decision turned out to be a double edged sword. Why not create some type of summoning device, and hide it in the far north where none of his enemies dare wander. If the loss of the Ring the first time brought about his downfall, and the destruction of the Ring killed him altogether, it would seem that it was his folly to create a Ring in the first place; something that a) could be lost, b) could fall easily into others' hands, c) could entirely unmake its master should it be destroyed. It seems that Sauron made several blunders leading up to his ultimate destruction, cheif among which was the creation of the One Ring itself, and the subsequent act of "putting all his eggs in one basket".


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 31, 2004)

> a) could be lost, b) could fall easily into others' hands, c) could entirely unmake its master should it be destroyed.


No, I don't think so. As for a) Sauron would never _lose _the ring, and as for b) he probably never conceived of it being wrested from him, since he quite likely thought that there would be noone on par with him when he wore the Ring. c) is true, but in every major endeavour there is also a risk. I believe that upon forging the one, Sauron had good reason to believe that he could not and would not be parted from his precious. Look what it took to take it from him in the end - The Last Alliance of Men and Elves came to an end, was bereaved of their excellent leaders (Elendil and Gil-galad) and only by a strange chance did Isildur get to cut the ring from Sauron's hand. And while we're discussing c) we should also examine the difficulty level of destroying the ring - it could only be destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom, the very heart of Sauron's province. Again, it was a _miracle _that brought Sauron's undoing, something that was beyond his foresight and reason.

_Which _is why, from Sauron's point of view, there were more pros than cons to forging the One Ring, and the other Rings of Power.


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## Morgoth Bauglir (Apr 1, 2004)

*not quire*

By "lost", I didn't mean in the sense that Sauron happens to misplace the Ring, but that it could be taken from him forcibly. Remember that it DID get taken from him forcibly, and actually without a whole lot of effort on the part of Isildur (swoosh!- Ring gone, Sauron gone). Another folly that I pointed out was the fact that his entire life force relies on the power of the Ring. I don't believe it was ever made perfectly clear exactly why Sauron needed the Ring, (he was already the most powerful evil being on Arda after the exile of Morgoth) or if he did need it, why he put his life force into it as well. As for the destruction of the Ring, if Sauron should have learned ANYTHING from the War of the Jewels, it to expect the unexpected. No one expected the Host of the Vala to destroy Angband and end Morgoth's reign forever, but they DID. All I'm saying is that Sauron had a poor contingency plan for this whole Ring thing....


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 1, 2004)

> I don't believe it was ever made perfectly clear exactly why Sauron needed the Ring, (he was already the most powerful evil being on Arda after the exile of Morgoth)


I always figured he needed it to enslave his opponents, mainly the Elves. I don't think his victory over Middle-Earth was that ensured, especially with the threat of Numenor looming over his head. He had to find some new means, and Sauron being Sauron, he resorts to cunning rather than brute force.



> or if he did need it, why he put his life force into it as well.


I think he had to put a greater part of his 'spirit' into the ring because his plan was to enslave the other bearers which was no small feat, and required nothing short of what Sauron did with the One.


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## Gothmog (Apr 2, 2004)

The reason for the One Ring was simply to control the other Rings of Power.

Sauron needed a way to gain control over the Elves. He persuaded some of them to make Rings of Power. These Rings were traps for the Elves but for Sauron to to be able to control the Elves through the Rings they made, he needed something that could override the Elven Rings. This was why he made the One Ring.

His greatest mistake was to underestimate the will and understanding of the Elves. Sauron thought that as soon as he put on the One Ring he would instatantly be in control of the wearers of the Elven Rings. However, instead of this happening, the Elves saw Sauron as he was and understood his purpose, therefore they ALL took off their rings and refused to use them while Sauron had the One. This led to the War of Sauron against the Elves of Eregion.



> we should also examine the difficulty level of destroying the ring - it could only be destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom, the very heart of Sauron's province. Again, it was a miracle that brought Sauron's undoing, something that was beyond his foresight and reason.


It is also worthwhile to point out that the destruction of the One Ring had to be "a miracle".

Sauron had crafted the One in such a way that it was Impossible for *Anyone* to intentionally destroy it. Not even Sauron himself.


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## Lantarion (Apr 2, 2004)

> I don't believe it was ever made perfectly clear exactly why Sauron needed the Ring, (he was already the most powerful evil being on Arda after the exile of Morgoth)


I believe Gothmog hit the nail on the head; but only once, it needs at least one more strike before it sinks in.  (How's that for a twist in the cliché?)
It's true, the Ring was able to control the other Rings of Power; but I don't believe this was Sauron's only objective when he made the One. I believe that as he 'poured' his 'spirit' into the Ring, the magic therein (don't ask me to explain it ) amplified it and enhanced its power; so when Sauron wore the Ring, his Maia-essense was greatly amplified in that he was presumably more powerful physically and 'magically' then when he did not wear it.
But he did not have to wear the Ring in the beginning; he got by perfectly well without it for a very long time, and caused a lot of trouble in Middle-earth even before the Akallabêth. But I believe that the more he wore the Ring, the more attached his life source became to him; i.e. I propose that Sauron became addicted to the One Ring. But the addiciotn was more than a psychological thing; it was now connected so closely to his _fëa_ that severing that connection would surely do some terrible damage to him. And that is what happened, thanks to Isildur. 

Now this is pure hypothesizing, and I base it only on my recollection of the works.. I dunno, how plausible is this idea?


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## Morgoth Bauglir (Apr 2, 2004)

*Isildur!*

All these arguments make sense, and so now I pose a new question to the forum.... If the Elves were wise to the true power of the One Ring, it's obvious that they knew how it could possibly ensnare other bearers. Why didn't Cirdan or Elrond, after the final battle of the War of the Last Alliance, seeing that Isildur wouldn't cast away the One, simply hurl him and the Ring into Doom (careful not to touch the Ring, for fear that it would take hold of them). I know this sounds crazy, but the world would've been alot better had Isildur been killed straight away, despite the fact that the Elves and Men were allies (I'm reminded of Brutus and Cassius murduring Caesar, despite the fact that they were all good friends, in Shakespear's Julius Caesar). Elrond knew that Sauron could return if the Ring endured, as did, presumably, Cirdan (a much older, much greater Elf). In any case, it seems that neither did much less than talk to Isildur, even though it was very apparent that there could be serious reprocussions to the Ring leaving Mordor. Someone, explain how these brilliant Elves let Isildur escape with the Ring!


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## Woo (Apr 2, 2004)

As gothmog has pointed out:
"The reason for the One Ring was simply to control the other Rings of Power...
...This led to the War of Sauron against the Elves of Eregion."

However the fact of the text is that when he created his ring he poured forth most of his former power into that ring. Which in effect weakened him, just as his master melkor spent alot of his former power in creating twisted creations of the things that the Valar & Eru created, e.g. orcs from the corruption of elves, trolls from the corruption & mockery of ents.
By the time of the war of wrath Melkor was still very powerful but no where as near as powerful as when he first entered into Arda hence his banisment into the void until the end.

This is kind of similar as to what occured with sauron. 
There was a time in the second age when a king of Numenor came with a mighty host and even with his one ring Sauron could not defeat him and surrended himself to the king to be taken as prisoner to Numenor, although Sauron had alterior motives behind this, nethertheless Sauron could not have won that battle.

Anyway Sauron managed to corrupt the king and his subjects which resulted in the destruction of Numenor and Saurons physical form.
A greatly weakened Sauron went back to mordor got his ring and over a peroid of time used it to replenish, if you like his energies.

Each ring has the power to enhance the bearer.
Hence the Dwarves, Elves, Men became greater in the skills of their craft.
Unknown to Sauron the Dwarves could not be be enslaved by mere will as the rings did with Men, such is the nature of that race.
Therefore by Sauron taking the rings away from the Dwarves this strips them of the attributtes that the ring would bestow upon them, and with Sauron in possession of those rings it is unknown if they enhanced his power or not.

The rings with Men he did not need because he indirectly had them for those rings achieved his primary purpose. Those men were enslaved and had no will of their own but Saurons.

Now we know he wanted the Elven rings but why?
Would they have added to his power or is he just as greedy as Lantarion stated?

Who knows how evils mind works?
The same kind of thing happens in our world today? nukes, guns, power, money?
Who Knows 

It is interesting to note that Sauron was usually refered to as the great eye!
But when Gollum was captured by him Gollum remembered seeing four fingers on Saurons Blackend hand, therefore at the time of the war of the ring, Sauron must have had a some sort of physical form again?


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 3, 2004)

Morgoth Bauglir said:


> Why didn't Cirdan or Elrond, after the final battle of the War of the Last Alliance, seeing that Isildur wouldn't cast away the One, simply hurl him and the Ring into Doom


Because that would be over-stepping their jurisdiction and taking away someone else's free will. They couldn't just take Isildur and drag him to the Chambers of Fire, he had loyal followers. And besides, such an act (whether it was successful or not) would have made the relations between Elves and Men hostile at best.



> Cirdan (a much older, much greater Elf)


Much older, yes. Much greater? Why? I'd say they are more or less on the same scale. Elrond for example being greater in healing and Círdan in foresight, Elrond as a prominent figure in the resistance against Sauron and caretaker of the fragile Dunedain of the North and Círdan as the greatest ship builder...etc. They are both among the very greatest of Elves IMO. 



Woo said:


> and with Sauron in possession of those rings it is unknown if they enhanced his power or not.


I believe the Rings enhanced the bearer, regardless whether the bearer was of the race the ring was created for. A good example is Gandalf, a Maia, bearing an Elven ring.



> Now we know he wanted the Elven rings but why?
> Would they have added to his power or is he just as greedy as Lantarion stated?


Like I said, I think he could have made use of any Ring of Power he got his hands on. Plus, it's better for him to have them, even if he couldn't use them, than for his enemies to possess.



> It is interesting to note that Sauron was usually refered to as the great eye!
> But when Gollum was captured by him Gollum remembered seeing four fingers on Saurons Blackend hand, therefore at the time of the war of the ring, Sauron must have had a some sort of physical form again?


The eye was merely a symbol. At the time of the LOTR, Sauron had a body as that of a man, only taller.


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## Morgoth Bauglir (Apr 3, 2004)

*Cirdan WAS Greater*

Cirdan WAS a far greater Elf in the eyes of Middle-Earth. During the War of the Jewels, it was he and Denethor who held off Morgoth's openeing assaults, so that, when the Noldor arrived, the land was still free of Morgoth's possesion. He is probably the second-greatest Middle-Earth bound elf next to Thingol. He also secured free territories at all times during the First, Second, Third and Fourth Ages of the Sun. Elrond played an intricate part in the wars of the Second Age, but the much longer and much more crucial time period of the First Age glorifies Cirdan as a great leader, and a powerful ally of the good side. Plus, from what I understand, he has a beard, which is TOTALLY cool.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Apr 5, 2004)

*Woo* posted:


> Now we know he wanted the Elven rings but why?
> Would they have added to his power or is he just as greedy as Lantarion stated?


 As far as I have understood, he could have dealt them out to other powerful people he wanted to enslave (as it did not work with the Elves) just as was the case with the other 16 Rings, and he probably wanted them for that cause.


*ALL 16 RINGS OF POWER THE ELVES MADE FIRST HAD THESE ABILITIES:*

*1) Preserving.* The Elves were going to use all of them for preserving the state of their lands. Sauron was going to use all of them to enslave the Elves. I think it was only afterwards that he decided to try to seize them and deal them out to the other races.

*2) Enhancing the various powers of the wearer.* Did Narya have a different effect than Vilya and Nenya when Gandalf wore it ('rekindling of hearts' was perhaps a specific ability of Gandalf; Narya enhanced this ability of his), or was it the same preserving effect but used in a different, not as lasting way as Gandalf was ever moving from place to place in Middle-earth?

*3) Other abilities*, more directly derived from Sauron, such as rendering invisible the body of the wearer, and making things of the invisible world visible.


*THE THREE WERE LIKE THE OTHER 16, BUT WITH THESE DIFFERENCES*:

*1) Their purpose was even more that of preserving than the other 16.*

*2) They were more powerful than the other 16.*

*3) They did not have the ability of invisibility*, probably because they were never kept by Sauron. Does this mean that they did not have the ability of 'wraithing'?


All this information can be found in _Letters_ #131:


> The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of _decay_ (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor – thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron ('the Necromancer': so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of _The Hobbit_): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible.
> The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility.




At least all the 16 were similar. If the Rings that are called 'The Seven' had been dealt out to Men, those Men would have turned into wraiths. If the Nine had been dealt out to Dwarves, those Dwarves had become greedy and received the other special characteristics of the Dwarves that received the Seven.

It was Celebrimbor himself that made the Three, and he was not directly instructed by Sauron then; he was only using his knowledge, but nonetheless they still contained Sauron's secret 'magic'; their wearers could have been enslaved as Sauron put on the One.


What I find slightly strange is that the Elves did not warn the other races of Sauron's purposes after he seized the 16, or perhaps already when he tried to enslave the Elves.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Apr 5, 2004)

It seems that Sauron wanted the Three to use for preservation, of Mordor perhaps?

'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age':


> of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them [the Three], for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world


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## Lantarion (Apr 5, 2004)

Very interesting observation Ardamir, very interesting indeed!  
Your interpretation is very valid, and I think I agree with you at least cautiously, but personally I see an echo of the Númenórean wish for deathlessness where it was not to be granted.. And I think that although Sauron was a Maia and therefore eternal by nature, Tolkien might have wanted the reader to associate Sauron's lust for the Three and the association of 'warding off decay' with the selfish and evil ways of many of the later Númenórean Kings. After all Sauron was an integral part of that island's history (especially because he brought about its ruin), it would make sense for Tolkien to link him to it both actually (as in the Silmarillion) and metaphorically or referantly (as in the given quote).


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## faila (Apr 19, 2004)

wasnt one of the major powers of the One Ring the fact that it controlled those who wore the other rings?


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## Inderjit S (Apr 20, 2004)

Yes, one of the main reasons as to why Sauron made it so he could control the Elven rings. He had to put a lot of his power into it so he could control the Elven rings. The 19 other rings, were, at the time, somewhere in Ost-in-Edhil. Celebrimbor gave the Elven rings to Galadriel and Gil-Galad after he found out about Sauron's perfidious making of the one ring


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## Miss Rainbow (May 12, 2004)

*Why did Sauron need the other rings of power?*

I believe that Sauron really, really, really desired all the power that he could get from Middle Earth, and maybe to take all the power away from all the peoples who had all the other rings; maybe to render all of them useless? So Sauron could be THE ONE & ONLY RULER ON EARTH AND NO ONE ELSE; and maybe everyone else would be so weak and easily destroyed. That is my guess; I could be wrong though.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (May 13, 2004)

It seems that Sauron first wanted to fool the Elves to wear the Rings and thus gain control over the wearers. When that failed, he wanted to get hold of the Rings and deal them out to other races and try to 'fool' them instead (he succeeded in this in the case of Men), except for the Three which he wanted to use for preservation.


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## Sangahyando (Oct 8, 2005)

Allow me to explain:

Firstly, Sauron attempted to convince Celebrimbor to forge the Three and the others. Which worked.

Secondly, this was to convince the Eldar to become the allies of Annatar i.e. Sauron. Which worked at first.

Thirdly, Galadriel was pardoned by the Valar if she would defend Middle-earth. Sauron's idea was to turn the Gwaith-i-Mirdain against Galadriel. Thus, using the Three against Galadriel, Elrond and then Gil-galad.

Forthly, theis would give Sauron no obstacles as 1) The Elves are out of the way, 2) Men are easily tempted, and had not set up Gondor and Arnor and 3) Dwarves mind there own business, such as the Balrog of Khazad-dum and Dragons.

Sangahyando, great-grandson of Castamir the Usurper


Finally, Sauron would be strong enough in Orcish man-power to assail Numenor and possibly Kor (Tirion on Tuna).


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