# Shelob dead?



## treebeardgarden (Dec 25, 2004)

At the end of the Two Towers does Shelob crawl away and die or survive to come back and reak havoc later?I hope she dies I might be 5ft 10in with a 50in chest but spiders petrify me. One that size I would have definetly become a dwarf and tunneled under rather than entering her lair.


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## Gothmog (Dec 25, 2004)

There is no certain answer to this. As with her mother Ungoliant, the fate of Shelob is left open. I can however understand your views, although I cannot match your chest measurment we do have other things in common such as hight and so forth .


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## Earendilyon (Dec 27, 2004)

Gothmog said:


> *As with her mother Ungoliant*, the fate of Shelob is left open.


Actually, the Silm gives a certain twist to it:


> Of the fate of Ungoliant no tale tells. Yet some have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last.


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## Gothmog (Dec 27, 2004)

Earendilyon said:


> Actually, the Silm gives a certain twist to it:


Yes I am aware of the quote. The point to note is the wording of it.


> Of the fate of Ungoliant no tale tells. *Yet some have said* that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last.


So Ungoliant's fate is not told but like other times in the stories an imagined answer is given.


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## Morgul Agent (Dec 27, 2004)

I think Tolkien implies that Shelob lives...and heals herself... but he does so in such a sly and ominous way that it's one of my favorite passages in the WHOLE book...SO good! I'll quote it here:


*"Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in her lair, nursing her malice and her misery and in slow years of darkness healed herself from within, rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun once more her dreaful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow, this tale does not tell"*


That is a genius piece of writing if you ask me. "This tale does not tell", only he pretty much DID tell, in explicit detail! It sends shivers up my spine every time.


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## GuardianRanger (Dec 27, 2004)

Morgul Agent said:


> *"Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in her lair, nursing her malice and her misery and in slow years of darkness healed herself from within, rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun once more her dreaful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow, this tale does not tell"*



That is a great quote! I like it.

To play devil's advocate....

The fact that the word "whether" is used implies that the outcome is not known and multiple scenarios are given. She either did this....or this.

But I like your take on it.


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## Earendilyon (Dec 28, 2004)

*Gothmog*, I'm certainly aware of the wording of the passage. But I think *Morgul Agent* makes a good point about Tolkien's writing style. To me such statements read as giving the most likely scenario of what happened (though not told in full there and then). But of course, we're not fully certain of the end of either Ungoliant and Shelob.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Dec 28, 2004)

treebeardgarden said:


> At the end of the Two Towers does Shelob crawl away and die or survive to come back and reak havoc later?I hope she dies I might be 5ft 10in with a 50in chest but spiders petrify me. One that size I would have definetly become a dwarf and tunneled under rather than entering her lair.



There is, O Huge One, no certain answer to this. The book TTT has it thus:

"Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in her lair, nursing her malice and her misery, and in slow years of darkness healed herself from within, rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun once more her dreadful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow, this tale does not tell."

So you are left free to contemplate your height and chest size...

Barley


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## Narsil (Dec 28, 2004)

Sounds to me like she could still be out there in the Mountains of Shadow..Waiting, watching, looking for her next meal.  

I like how Tolkien just leaves you....hanging.


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## Nazgul Officer (Jan 21, 2005)

But surely, once Sauron was defeated when the ring was destroyed, all that was evil fell into the darkness of the ground. Shouldn't shelob have been killed off too, just as the orcs and the trolls etc. But it is creepy that shelob could still be out there waiting, *shivers*.


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## Hammersmith (Jan 21, 2005)

Nazgul Officer said:


> But surely, once Sauron was defeated when the ring was destroyed, all that was evil fell into the darkness of the ground. Shouldn't shelob have been killed off too, just as the orcs and the trolls etc. But it is creepy that shelob could still be out there waiting, *shivers*.


 
Ah, but Shelob was not one of Morgoth's or Sauron's creatures. She was a bastard offspring of Ungoliant (what did Ungoliant breed with again?) and so fully capable of surviving Sauron's downfall. Perhaps she lives even today - as presumably so does Maglor.  

I'd like to think that Aldarion, Aragorn's son, rides out one day to destroy her, but that's pure speculation. Perhaps Tolkein had a sequel in mind?


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## Manwe (Jan 22, 2005)

> Sounds to me like she could still be out there in the Mountains of Shadow..Waiting, watching, looking for her next meal.


 I'd like to think that as with Ungoliant's supposed fate, Shelob's next meal was herself. Even though it would be cool for her to be lurking around, it demeans Sam's battle with her if she just comes back, big as ever and twice as ugly


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## HLGStrider (Feb 3, 2005)

She starved to death. 

No one would be using Cirith Ungol anymore. If you wanted to get into Mordor (why would you?) after Sauron's fall, you have a nice, large, broken down black gate to get into where you don't have to be a stair master or worry about arachnids (Burrrrrrrrrrr. . .Elgee fears such creatures). The Orcs have scurried away like ants. Mordor would be a dead wasteland. What would come through her tunnel?

She'd either have to leave, eat herself, or starve. For a creature that is always hungry, I tend to agree that option two is the most likely. I think Tolkien was just dangling the bait to scare us a bit with his "whether"ing.

I, by the way, am five foot four. . .and a lady simply does not tell men her chest size unless these men happen to be tailors.

anyways, with a lady, you need the "33, 26, 37" to make sense of it, don't you?


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## svetho (Feb 3, 2005)

HLGStrider said:


> She starved to death.
> 
> No one would be using Cirith Ungol anymore. If you wanted to get into Mordor (why would you?) after Sauron's fall, you have a nice, large, broken down black gate to get into where you don't have to be a stair master or worry about arachnids (Burrrrrrrrrrr. . .Elgee fears such creatures). The Orcs have scurried away like ants. Mordor would be a dead wasteland. What would come through her tunnel?
> 
> She'd either have to leave, eat herself, or starve. For a creature that is always hungry, I tend to agree that option two is the most likely. I think Tolkien was just dangling the bait to scare us a bit with his "whether"ing.



I think it's most likely that she left her tunnel and roamed the lands outside in search of something to eat. However, with the Dark Lord gone she would have left no protection by the forces of Mordor or Sauron himself. If Shelob chose the first option she'd probably have been hunted down quite quickly.

BTW: I totally agree with Morgul Agent. His writing style is what distinguishes Tolkien from most other writers and makes him not only great but outstanding.


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## Fugitive1992 (Nov 28, 2005)

*Did Shelob ever die?!?!?!?!?*

Has anyone besides me woundered what happend too Shelob ? They don't say in the books or the movies! Any thoughts????


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## Maeglin (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: Did Shelob ever die?!?!?!?!?*

I assume she starved to death. She may have healed after a long time, and then perhaps she could get an orc every now and then, but way up there in the black mountains where she lived there wasn't much to eat, so she probably starved.


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## Hammersmith (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: Did Shelob ever die?!?!?!?!?*

I posted in *this* thread on the subject, thereby making it blessed and hallowed. It also has the useful quality of solving the problem rather well.


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## Fugitive1992 (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: Did Shelob ever die?!?!?!?!?*

I thought spiders could live without food up to a month. I don't know


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## Barliman Butterbur (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: Did Shelob ever die?!?!?!?!?*



Fugitive1992 said:


> Has anyone besides me woundered what happend too Shelob ? They don't say in the books or the movies! Any thoughts????



In the book, Tolkien says that no ever found out what her fate was. She could be alive or dead. She could be waiting for you under your bed! 

Barley


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## Firawyn (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: Did Shelob ever die?!?!?!?!?*

Barley don't say that. I don't need my sister getting nightmares....

Good question though. As Barley said, Tolkien never did say. *RP idea pops into head* Ohhhhhh!!! lol


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## Fugitive1992 (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: Did Shelob ever die?!?!?!?!?*

Firawyn! I don't need you to protect me. Besides, letting me watch The Mummy was diffenetly scarier the Shelob...I think*looks around*


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## HLGStrider (Dec 4, 2005)

EVIL MOD MERGES THREADS!

Mu ha ha ha


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## Hammersmith (Dec 5, 2005)

HLGStrider said:


> EVIL MOD MERGES THREADS!
> 
> Mu ha ha ha


Gah, now my sharp rebuke is meaningless! But I have blessed this thread thrice with my presence so I shall let you off.

Oh, and to pretend to be on subject, I'll ask this question: Do you think there was any chance of Shelob ever becoming pregnant? Her Mommy managed it...


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## HLGStrider (Dec 5, 2005)

I am at work so I don't have my Sil handy, but Shelob did mate with lesser spiders. Still I would imagine that they are greater spiders than what remained in Mirkwood in Shelob's day. Also, she would have to travel to Mirkwood to get ahold of even those spiders who then may not be compatible, and she probably would draw attention to herself on the road and end up getting slain by some brave hero (a la Smitty's plot device).

So unless we invent an asexually producing spider, I think she is the last of her line.


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## Hammersmith (Dec 5, 2005)

Don't shoot me down so easily! How long is the gestation period for a ten foot spider? Weren't the Mirkwood spiders that you refer to and the mating you refer to in the Silmarillion the offspring of Ungoliant herself?

If Shelob can mate, who's to say she cannot reproduce with a common daddy long legs? Or that she couldn't wait out her hunger for a hundred years and mate with the first Mirkwood spider to wander up to Cirith Ungol?

The only thing I could see that would prevent her mating would be if she were sterile, a la mules and other hybrids; Ungoliant mated with those of similar-but-not-quite-the-same species, right? So Shelob may not be able to reproduce...but if she is able, I see no reason to write her off. She'll be having babies when Aragorn's great grandson is old, maybe - - - but she'll have them!

...I have plot devices now?


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## Fugitive1992 (Dec 5, 2005)

Hammersmith said:


> Gah, now my sharp rebuke is meaningless! But I have blessed this thread thrice with my presence so I shall let you off.
> 
> Oh, and to pretend to be on subject, I'll ask this question: Do you think there was any chance of Shelob ever becoming pregnant? Her Mommy managed it...


 
It would have to be a REALLY BIG male spider


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## HLGStrider (Dec 5, 2005)

Hammersmith said:


> Don't shoot me down so easily! . . ....I have plot devices now?


 
I hate to tell you this, Smitty, but I have decided that you ARE a plot device.


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## Firawyn (Dec 6, 2005)

How did the topic of Shelob being dead or not get moved to spider sex??  

I am scared....but....if Shelob mated with a lesser spider, she could have THOUSANDS of babies.....*REALLY REALLY SCARED!!!!!*


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## Fugitive1992 (Dec 8, 2005)

Are you scared Firawyn? Me too


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