# how did they do it?



## Celborn (Jun 15, 2007)

sorry if this is already a thread but how is it that the all seeing Valar did not keep their evil brother locked up in the halls of Mandros, and how was it that they had the giant army, well an army big enough to defeat his army. Also why diden't they keep him locked up??


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## Thorondor_ (Jun 15, 2007)

Manwe was bound by his word. According to Osanwe kenta, doing otherwise would have put him on the same path as Melkor. According to Myths Transformed, he is the wisest and most knowledgeable of the Music, and he knew that evil must rise time and again, as a rule, but it always breeds new good.


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## Celborn (Jun 15, 2007)

ok but how did the valar getsuch huge armys, and when the third age came to an end the elves left middle earth, but what happens if they are killed do they go to the halls of mandros? or do they go to another place.


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## Thorondor_ (Jun 15, 2007)

Well, considering that the vanyar multiplied in peace for a whole age... with a rate of four children per family, marriage at about 50 years of age... no one dying of sickness ... no natural death... no war... you could get to a pretty nice number.

As far as the dead elves, they are all summoned to Mandos. Some may refuse, which would mean during the first three ages (at least) that they could become servants of Melkor/Sauron. Those who went to Mandos would receive a new body, if they were good in their deeds.


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## Amarie Veanne (Jun 19, 2007)

Actually there's a citation saying that Manwe was free from all evil, so he could not know what were Melkor's real intentions when he released him from his captivity: and being thus good he didn't know what Melkor was capable of doing, and indeed believed he really repented for his deeds.
Please excuse for not posting the citation here, I haven't got the book right now, but I think it's Morgoth's Ring.


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## Thorondor_ (Jun 19, 2007)

It's from the Silmarillion:


Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor said:


> Then Manwe granted him pardon; but the Valar would not yet suffer him to depart beyond their sight and vigilance, and he was constrained to dwell within the gates of Valmar. But fair-seeming were all the words and deeds of Melkor in that time, and both the Valar and the Eldar had profit from his aid and counsel, if they sought it; and therefore in a while he was given leave to go freely about the land, and it seemed to Manwe that the evil of Melkor was cured. For Manwe was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Iluvatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor’s heart, and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever.


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## Amarie Veanne (Jun 19, 2007)

Yes, that's what I thought of


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