# The Blue Wizards



## Zenith (May 23, 2011)

Any ideas on what happened to the Blue Wizards Alatar and Palando when they journeyed into the East? Did they join the enemy?


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## Mithrandir-Olor (May 26, 2011)

When I read about the LOTR Sequel Tolkien started but abandoned I get the sense he was gonna have them be the villains of that.


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## Sulimo (May 27, 2011)

> When I read about the LOTR Sequel Tolkien started but abandoned I get the sense he was gonna have them be the villains of that.



Mithrandir, I am not familiar with this sequal. Is it in one of the history of middle earth books?


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## Eru Ilúvatar (May 27, 2011)

The LOTR "sequel" is called The New Shadow. It's a fragment only about 30 pages long. You can find it in HOME 12.


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## Sulimo (May 27, 2011)

thanks i will look into it


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 29, 2011)

From what I remember, minus my resources right now, the two blue Istari went with Saruman into the east and then Saruman alone returned. According to Tolkien, he believed that possibly the two blue Istari started some cults/followings in the East for satanic groups or something like that. I don't know if they had anything to do with "The New Shadow" at all or not though.


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## Bard the Bowman (May 30, 2011)

Maybe they became lords of Nardor


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 30, 2011)

From the Encyclopedia of Arda:



> A translation of the term _Ithryn Luin_ referring to the two least well-known of the Five Wizards. After landing in Middle-earth, they travelled directly into the far east with Curunír (better known as Saruman), so that they were never given names by the peoples of western Middle-earth. We do, however, have hints of what their names might have been among other peoples: some sources give _Alatar_ and _Pallando_, while others suggest _Morinehtar_ and _Rómestámo_. These variations needn't contradict one another: indeed, all the more famous Wizards had several different names.
> The mission of the Blue Wizards was to travel to eastern lands occupied by Sauron, and help to foment unrest among his subject peoples. Whether they succeeded or not, even Tolkien was unsure, though he imagined that they had probably failed ('...I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.' - _The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien_, No 211, dated 1958). It's also uncertain why they remained in the east while Curunír returned: perhaps this was part of the original plan of the Valar, or perhaps Saruman decided he would have greater success in the west. Whatever the reason, his two blue-cloaked companions were never heard from again.


http://www.glyphweb.com/Arda/b/bluewizards.html


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## Bard the Bowman (Jun 12, 2011)

I am sticking with my Nardor theory.


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## Elthir (Jun 14, 2011)

> Encyclopedia of Arda wrote: (...) so that they were never given names by the peoples of western Middle-earth. We do, however, have hints of what their names might have been among other peoples: some sources give _Alatar_ and _Pallando_, while others suggest _Morinehtar_ and _Rómestámo_. These variations needn't contradict one another: indeed, all the more famous Wizards had several different names.


 
With Quenya _Olorin_ and Sindarin _Mithrandir_ for instance, both are intended to be names for 'Gandalf' _within_ the world of Middle-earth; or for Saruman, Sindarin _Curunir_ alongside Quenya _Curumo._

What we have here however are two different texts with different sets of all Quenya names, with no indication that all these versions were intended to exist alongside each other. 

These examples can easily be the result of Tolkien forgetting one set of names and later inventing another set, as Christopher Tolkien implies might be the case, and possibly JRRT never intended all four (or *five) to really exist within Middle-earth, no more than rejected 'Trotter' was intended to exist alongside _Strider._



_*Rome(n)star_ also appears.


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## Bard the Bowman (Oct 16, 2011)

It's likely they relocated to Nardor. Whether or not they played a part in its downfall I have no idea.


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