# Theoden's last words



## Oli (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi all

One thing I don't understand is what Theoden meant when he said "...I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent."

Surely it was Eowyn who killed the fell beast, and it was both her and Merry who killed the Lord of the Nazgul.

Am I missing something obvious?


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## Supernita (Jan 9, 2004)

Are you sure he didn't poke the beast with his sword once? I saw the movie opening night and the whole thing stole my emotions for the evening, and now I'm beginning to forget details. I'm not sure if you were referring to the movie or the book, I haven't read that book yet, so I wouldn't know, but I wonder if that's the case. He might have poked it once or something and knowing men, he'd want to take all the credit  Not sure though, just a thought.


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## Oli (Jan 9, 2004)

I'm referring to the book. His horse is hit by an arrow and falls over,crushing him beneath it. He lies there through the killing of the Lord of the Nazgul.


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## Flame of Udûn (Jan 9, 2004)

The Black Serpent is the symbol of the Haradrim. Théoden killed their champion as well as the standard-bearer, and also chopped the flagpole into kindling.


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## Oli (Jan 9, 2004)

That explains it! Thanks! I thought I was overlooking something obvious.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 20, 2004)

Oli said:


> Hi all
> 
> One thing I don't understand is what Theoden meant when he said "...I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent."
> 
> ...



In the book, Theoden actually thought he had killed the monster (not realizing that Eowyn had done it), and so believed he had redeemed himself for having fallen under Saruman's power via Wormtongue. In the book, Theoden spoke his last words to Meriadoc, not to Eowyn (who had been knocked unconscious by the blow to her shield arm by the Nazgul):

"...and there stood Meriadoc the hobbit in the midst of the slain, blinking like an owl in the daylight, for tears blinded him...he looked on the face of the king, fallen in the midst of his glory. ...

'Farewell, Master Holbytla!' he said. 'My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent.'"

Lotho


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## Greenwood (Jan 20, 2004)

Lotho,

Actually Flame of Udun has it correct. Theoden was referring to the Haradrim chieftain and his standard-bearer. The Haradrim satandard is described as a "black serpent upon scarlet." Theoden brought them down before the Ringwraith and his flying creature arrived.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 20, 2004)

Greenwood said:


> Lotho,
> 
> Actually Flame of Udun has it correct. Theoden was referring to the Haradrim chieftain and his standard-bearer. The Haradrim standard is described as a "black serpent upon scarlet." Theoden brought them down before the Ringwraith and his flying creature arrived.



Well, then I'm not understanding something. Looking at the text (The Battle of the Pelennor Fields), the first thing that happened was that the beast landed on Eowyn, and that's when she beheaded it. Then the Nazgul attacked her, shattering her shield and breaking her arm. At the same time, Meriadoc stabbed him from behind. At that, Eowyn drove her sword into the Nazgul's face and between the two wounds was destroyed.

After all that, Merry approached Theoden who (as I understand this) mistakenly thought that he himself had killed the beast. Can someone give me the reference to what Flame of Udun is talking about? In all the years I've been reading this, I never had any other understanding of these passages. 

AH! I JUST FOUND IT! 

"...they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest. Right through the press drove Theoden Thengel's son, and his spear was shivered as he threw down their chieftain. Out swept his sword, and he spurred to the standard, hewed staff and bearer; and the black serpent foundered. Then all that was left unslain of their cavalry turned and fled far away."

My God...  A small passage, but an important one! (But I like my previous understanding better!)

Lotho


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## Sam_Gamgee (Jan 20, 2004)

Supernita said:


> I haven't read that book yetQUOTE]
> 
> Well you better get on it. lol it makes the movies alot better, and its amazing in itself as im sure everybody here would undoubtedly agree, possibly a select few would disagree, but that would be random.


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