# Will the Real Sam Gamgee Please Stand Up?



## Barliman Butterbur (Mar 22, 2004)

I ran across two especially agreeable letters in the Carpenter/Tolkien volume of Tolkien's Letters, which I thought I'd share:

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*184 To Sam Gamgee*

[On 13 March, a letter was written to Tolkien by a Mr Sam Gamgee of Brixton Road, London S.W.9: 'I hope you do not mind my writing to you, but with reference to your story "The Lord of the Rings" running as a serial on the radio . . . . I was rather interested at how you arrived at the name of one of the characters named Sam Gamgee because that happens to be my name. I haven't heard the story myself not having a wireless but I know some who have. . . . I know it's fiction, but it is rather a coincidence as the name is very uncommon, but well known in the medical profession.]

18 March 1956 As from 76 Sandfield Road, Headington, Oxford
Dear Mr Gamgee,

It was very kind of you to write. You can imagine my astonishment, when I saw your signature! I can only say, for your comfort I hope, that the 'Sam Gamgee' of my story is a most heroic character, now widely beloved by many readers, even though his origins are rustic. So that perhaps you will not be displeased by the coincidence of the name of this imaginary character (of supposedly many centuries ago) being the same as yours. The reason of my use of the name is this. I lived near Birmingham as a child, and we used 'gamgee' as a word for 'cotton-wool'; so in my story the families of Cotton and Gamgee are connected. I did not know as a child, though I know now, that 'Gamgee' was shortened from 'gamgee-tissue', and that [it was] named after its inventor (a surgeon I think) who lived between 1828 and 1886. It was probably (I think) his son who died this year, on 1 March, aged 88, after being for many years Professor of Surgery at Birmingham University. Evidently 'Sam' or something like it,* is associated with the family — though I never knew this until a few days ago, when I saw Professor Gamgee's obituary notice, and saw that he was the son of _Sampson Gamgee_ — and looked in a dictionary and found that the inventor was _S. Gamgee_ (1828-86), etc., probably the same.

Have you any tradition as to the real origin of your distinguished and rare name? Having a rare name myself (often troublesome) I am especially interested.

The 'etymology' given in my book is of course quite fictitious, and made up simply for the purposes of my story. I do not suppose you could be bothered to _read_ so long and fantastic a work, but if you could be bothered, I know that the work (which has been astonishingly successful) is in most public libraries. It is alas! very expensive to buy — £3/3/0. But if you or any of your family try it, and find it interesting enough, I can only say that I shall be happy and proud to send you a signed copy of all 3 vols. as a tribute from the author to the distinguished family of Gamgee.

Yrs sincerely,
J.R.R. Tolkien

*My Sam Gamgee is _Samwise_ not Sam(p)son or Samuel.

Mr Gamgee replied on 30 March with more information about his family. He expressed himself delighted at Tolkien's offer of signed volumes. Tolkien sent them, and Mr Gamgee ackowledged their arrival, adding: 'I can assure you that I have every intention of reading them.']

*From a letter to Christopher and Faith Tolkien* 19 March 1956

I have had a letter from a real _Sam Gamgee_ from Tooting! He could not have chosen a more Hobbit-_sounding_ place, could he? — though unShirelike, I fear, in reality.

Also A. & Unwin send extremely good news or prophesies of probably financial results to come later.

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Barley


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## Starflower (Mar 22, 2004)

gosh
I wonder if this Gamgee person ( or his children more likely) still live in Tooting? hmm... *goes off in search of a South London phonebook*......


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## Barliman Butterbur (Mar 22, 2004)

Starflower said:


> gosh
> I wonder if this Gamgee person ( or his children more likely) still live in Tooting? hmm... *goes off in search of a South London phonebook*......



If you're serious about making some investigatory calls, let us know what happens!

Barley


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## Starflower (Mar 23, 2004)

well haven't found any descendants yet, but an ancestor, Joseph Samspno Gamgee is credited as the father of modern veterinary medicine, he's published books about cows' diseases... 

edit: I found a lot of Gamgees in Australia! 
http://home.worldoptions.com.au/nadsett/gedcom/dat33.htm#15


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## Barliman Butterbur (Mar 23, 2004)

Starflower said:


> well haven't found any descendants yet, but an ancestor, Joseph Samspno Gamgee is credited as the father of modern veterinary medicine, he's published books about cows' diseases...



Yes, Tolkien mentioned that in the letter I posted.

Mmmmmmmm*oooooooooooooo*ooooooooooo!

Barley


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## Walter (Mar 26, 2004)

*Some Etymology on Samwise Gamgee*

*Sam, Samwise*

In Appendix F of the LotR the - fictional - etymological origin of Sam's name is explained as meaning 'halfwise, simple':



> I have not used names of Hebraic or similar origin in my transpositions. Nothing in Hobbit-names corresponds to this element in our names. Short names such as Sam, Tom, Tim, Mat were common as abbreviations of actual Hobbit-names, such as Tomba, Tolma, Malta, and the like. But Sam and his father Ham were really called Ban and Ran. These were shortenings of Banazîr and Ranugad, originally nicknames, meaning 'halfwise, simple' and 'stay-at-home'; but being words that had fallen out of colloquial use they remained as traditional names in certain families. I have therefore tried to preserve these features by using Samwise and Hamfast, modernizations of ancient English _samwís_ and _hámfoest_ which corresponded closely in meaning.
> The__Lord__of__the__Rings - Appendix F



*Gamgee*

Again in Appendix F of the LotR we find for the etymological origin of Gamgee:



> _Gamgee_. According to family tradition, set out in the Red Book, the surname _Galbasi_, or in reduced form _Galpsi_, came from the village of _Galabas_, popularly supposed to be derived from _galab-_ 'game' and an old element _bas_; more or less equivalent to our _wick_, _wich_. _Gamwich_ (pronounced _Gammidge_) seemed therefore a very fair rendering. However, in reducing _Gammidgy_ to _Gamgee_, to represent _Galpsi_, no reference was intended to the connexion of Samwise with the family of Cotton, though a jest of that kind would have been hobbit-like enough, had there been any warrant in their language.
> The__Lord__of__the__Rings - Appendix F



An earlier version of this part can be found in The__Peoples__of__Middle-earth:



> _Gamgee_. Hobbit _Galbassi_. A difficult name. According to family tradition (in this case reliable) duly set out by Sam Gamgee at the end of the Red Book, this name was really derived from a place-name: _Galb(b)as_. That name I have closely rendered by Gamwich (to be pronounced _Gammidge_), comparing _galb-_ = _Gam_ with C.S. _galap, galab-_ = 'game'; and the ending _bas_ in place-names with our _-wick, -wich_. _Galbassi_ may thus be fairly represented by _Gammidgee_. In adopting the spelling _Gamgee_ I have been led astray by Sam Gamgee's connexion with the family of Cotton into a jest which though Hobbit- like enough does not really reside in the suggestions of the names _Galbassi_ and _Lothran_ to people of the Shire.
> 
> HoMeXII - The Appendix on Languages



In the Notes__on__Nomenclature, originally a guide for translators (also called "Guide to Names"), Tolkien's explanation sounds a little different:


> _Gamgee_. A surname found in England, though uncommon. I do not know its origin; it does not appear to be English. It is also a word for 'cotton-wool' (now obsolescent but known to me in childhood), derived from the name of S. Gamgee (died 1886), a distinguished surgeon, who invented 'Gamgee tissue'. In a translation it would be best to treat this name as 'meaningless', and retain it with any spelling changes that may seem necessary to fit it to the style of the language of translation.
> Notes__on__Nomenclature


Tolkien's earliest explanations, however, are given in letters to his son Christopher, dating 1944:


> Sam by the way is an abbreviation not of Samuel but of Samwise (the Old E. for Half-wit), as is his father's name the Gaffer (Ham) for O.E. Hamfast or Stayathome. Hobbits of that class have very Saxon names as a rule – and I am not really satisfied with the surname Gamgee and shd. change it to Goodchild if I thought you would let me.
> Letters #72


and 


> As to Sam Gamgee. I quite agree with what you say, and I wouldn't dream of altering his name without your approval; but the object of the alteration was precisely to bring out the comicness, peasantry, and if you will the Englishry of this jewel among the hobbits. Had I thought it out at the beginning, I should have given all the hobbits very English names to match the shire. The Gaffer came first; and Gamgee followed as an echo of old Lamorna jokes.1 I doubt if it's English. I knew of it only through Gamgee (Tissue) as cottonwool was called being invented by a man of that name last century. However, I daresay all your imagination of the character is now bound up with the name.
> Letters #76



(C) The Tolkien Wiki; used with permission


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## numen (Mar 26, 2004)

*cool*

wow, that is so interesting. 
Maybe Mr.Gamgee has still got the signed copies of the books in his family.....


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## cniht (Jun 8, 2004)

touching anecdote
signed 3-vol LOTR ! I cannot spend the night without any dream of that!


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## joxy (Jun 8, 2004)

Walter said:


> Tolkien's earliest explanations, however, are given in letters to his son Christopher, dating 1944:


Is there any explanation in the book of those letters for the reference to "Lamorna jokes"? Does anyone understand that?


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 9, 2004)

I thought this thread died out long ago! It's nice to see so many great contributions to it! Thanks Walter, especially!

Barley


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## joxy (Jun 11, 2004)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Thanks Walter....


Yes, thanks Walter: that was a new one on me.

btw BB: I always thought you owned the Pony, but, as you're only in "lodgings" there, who is the actual owner?


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 11, 2004)

joxy said:


> Yes, thanks Walter: that was a new one on me.
> 
> btw BB: I always thought you owned the Pony, but, as you're only in "lodgings" there, who is the actual owner?



Ah, joxy, do sit down with me and have a mug o' proper 1420! You seem to understand that "lodgings" implies temporariness. Not atall atall! Those are permanent lodgings — and spacious, airy and luxurious they are too, if you understand me! The Pony was started (indeed built!) by our family generations ago, and we've always lived above the common room!

Barley


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## joxy (Jun 12, 2004)

Thanks BB, though I'd rather have a tankard, or a glass, if you have them.
Mugs are things that kids have hot drinks from.
I don't understand lodgings as implying temporariness. I know them as implying being rented. Here they are rooms in a building which the owner of the building rents out, for any period of time, to someone else. If the owner and his family live in the building
in which the owner works, then the rooms they live in are usually referred to simply as "the living area".
Once again, two nations divided by a common language!


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## Eledhwen (Jun 12, 2004)

I haven't found a Sam yet, but the following list shows that the Gamgee clan seems to have spread quite far and wide....

I found a genealogy record of Alfred Edward Gamgee who is buried at Woodford Cemetery, Caboolture Shire, Queensland, Australia. He died Dec 15th 2001. A Queensland miner called Gamgee shared a claim with a Mr Saltrick who is recorded in mining injuries records for 1893.

I also found Author Prof, Arthur GAMGEE (M: 1841 Oct 10 - 1909 Mar 29) who wrote books on Channel Island cattle.

Some marriages from Boyds Index for Essex:
1816, Rebecca Gamgee & Humphrey Evans 
1811 George GAMGEE & Elizabeth HOWARD, Wendon Lofts
1814 John GAMGEE & Elizabeth BAKER, Elmdon
1820 George GAMGEE & Elizabeth PIPE, Elmdon
1822 John GAMGEE & Sarah DIE, Heydon

Americans? How about "zero motor," a 'free energy' machine invented by John Gamgee in 1880. It didn't work, as it violated the 2nd law of thermodynamics; but Gamgee sold it to the U.S. Navy anyway.

The Protestant Cemetery of Florence (the English Cemetery) is the last resting place of Sarah Elizabeth Gamgee, daughter of Joseph and Mary Ann Gamgee, died 24 Nov 34.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 14, 2004)

Eledhwen said:


> I haven't found a Sam yet, but the following list shows that the Gamgee clan seems to have spread quite far and wide....



Wow, you've been at work! And to go along with all your loving labor, here's a Google search with 68,500 entrees for "gamgee:" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=gamgee

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Jun 14, 2004)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Wow, you've been at work! And to go along with all your loving labor, here's a Google search with 68,500 entrees for "gamgee:" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=gamgee
> 
> Barley


... and from my own delvings, I can guess that >90% of them are probably for the Tolkien character or his relatives.

I remember doing internet searches before everyone got hooked on the films - it was a lot easier to get useful information. There is still plenty of useful stuff about, of course, but it's finding it amongst all the dross.


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## Ela Gamgee (Dec 23, 2004)

*Hi, Sam Gamgee was my Great Great Uncle, and I think you might be interested to know that in my house at this moment in time I have two letters from Tolkein and 1 piece of paper telling him about the 3 books! We don't live inTooting anymore, we live all over, some still in London, some in France and some in Wales, I live in Wales and at the moment I am searching my family history. My Gran has the 3 signed books, but 1 isn't in good condition, I just thought you'd like to know! I'm very proud of the fact that we have letters to Sam Gamgee from Tolkein!
Please Post Again or email me at **[email protected]com*
*Ela Gamgee*​** ​


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## Barliman Butterbur (Dec 23, 2004)

Ela Gamgee said:


> Hi, Sam Gamgee was my Great Great Uncle, and I think you might be interested to know that in my house at this moment in time I have two letters from Tolkein and 1 piece of paper telling him about the 3 books! We don't live inTooting anymore, we live all over, some still in London, some in France and some in Wales, I live in Wales and at the moment I am searching my family history. My Gran has the 3 signed books, but 1 isn't in good condition, I just thought you'd like to know! I'm very proud of the fact that we have letters to Sam Gamgee from Tolkein! Please Post Again or email me at [email protected] .



WOW! How neat, and welcome to the Forum! (I took out all the red type because it's so tough to read.) Do you think there's a chance of scanning any of the letters and uploading jpegs of them for our benefit?

Barley


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## Ela Gamgee (Dec 23, 2004)

I will try yea, but my scanner isn't working atm, I'll try and get it done soon though. I thought you guys would like some information on Sam, if you want any more information I'll try and find it out, I was reading the letters last night suprisingly! 
Ela 
x


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## Barliman Butterbur (Dec 23, 2004)

Ela Gamgee said:


> I will try yea, but my scanner isn't working atm, I'll try and get it done soon though. I thought you guys would like some information on Sam, if you want any more information I'll try and find it out, I was reading the letters last night suprisingly!
> Ela
> x



We're looking forward! And if scans are too much, perhaps you could just type out what the letters say...?

Barley


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## joxy (Dec 31, 2004)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> We're looking forward!


That includes me, now that I've caught this thread.
Those letters are enormously valuable, but I do hope the owner will share the content with us here.......


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Dec 11, 2005)

This is a fantastic and rare opportunity indeed. I hope Ela comes back and posts some more (maybe a pdf of the letters as Barliman suggested). Samwise has always been my favorite of the hobbits because his heart is so pure. It is really neat to think that Tolkien was kind enough to send those letters and books to the family. It's pretty amazing.


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