# What really became of Melkor after Dagor Dagorath ?



## Mirak Dagan (Aug 8, 2017)

*Hello everyone, I'm new here. There're some questions about Melkor I want to know.*

Tolkien stated that the Valar are immortal. Melkor was defeated many times by the combined force of 14 Valar and countless Maiar, yet, every time he was defeated, he always came back.
But in the case of Dagor Dagorath, it's quite unclear to me on this subject.

So, after the Dagor Dagorath event, can Melkor still come back again like he did before ?
Is he truly "Death/Destroyed" or he's still out there lurking in the shadows, waiting to make another move ?
If he was truly destroyed after the event then, will there ever be someone like Melkor again in the Second Music of the Ainur ?


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## Erestor Arcamen (Aug 9, 2017)

I think after the Dagor Dagorath Melkor would be done for good and the world rebuilt.



> According to the prophecy, included in both The Shaping of Middle-earth and in The Lost Road, Melkor will eventually discover how to break the Door of Night, allowing him to escape his imprisonment beyond the world. Intent on regaining his dominion over Middle-earth and avenging his previous defeat, the fallen Ainu will recreate his greatest servants (including Sauron) and destroy the Sun and the Moon. For the love of these, Eärendil will return from the sky and meet Tulkas, Manwë (or Eönwë his herald) and Túrin Turambar on the plains of Valinor. All the Free Peoples of Middle-earth will participate in this final battle, Elves, Men, and Dwarves alike. Also in the Battle will be Ar-Pharazônand the Númenóreans who broke the Ban and landed at Aman in S.A. 3319. These Númenóreans of the Great Armament were not destroyed, but are imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten, where they await the ending of the world. The role that they have to play in the Last Battle is unknown.
> 
> Thus assembled, the forces of the Valar shall fight against Melkor. Tulkas will wrestle with him, but it will be by the hand of Túrin that finally death and utter defeat will be dealt to Melkor. Túrin will run his black sword Gurthang (Iron of Death) through Melkor's dark heart, thus avenging the Children of Húrin, and the Pelóri Mountains will be leveled. In other versions of the legendarium, however (see The History of Middle-earth), Eönwë, then called Fiönwë, is the one who will kill Morgoth for his love for Arien (previously named Urwendi), instead of Túrin. _This is said at the end of The Hiding of Valinor._



Source: Tolkien Gateway


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## Mirak Dagan (Aug 11, 2017)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I think after the Dagor Dagorath Melkor would be done for good and the world rebuilt.
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Tolkien Gateway


Thanks! But, why it is Turin (a Man) who killed the likes of Melkor (a Vala), why not someone equally powerful with impressive feats like Tulkas/Manwe or Eonwe (a Maia) killed him ?


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## EcthelionL (Aug 11, 2017)

Mirak Dagan said:


> Thanks! But, why it's Turin (a Man) who killed the likes of Melkor (a Vala), why not someone powerful with impressive feat like Tulkas/Manwe or Eonwe (a Maia) killed him ?


One of Tolkien's major themes is the less powerful defeating the worst perils


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## Mirak Dagan (Aug 11, 2017)

EcthelionL said:


> One of Tolkien's major themes is the less powerful defeating the worst perils


I wonder, would Tolkien's grandson continuing his granddad's legacy or leave it like it is since there are still many confusing unanswered questions that Tolkien didn't fully explained to us.


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## EcthelionL (Aug 11, 2017)

Mirak Dagan said:


> I wonder, would Tolkien's grandson continuing his granddad's legacy or leave it like it is since there are still many confusing unanswered questions that Tolkien didn't fully explained to us.


I would think Tolkien's family will leave his work as it is out of respect. When the copyright runs out then all and sundry will be free to make up whatever they want


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## Azrubêl (Aug 12, 2017)

Dagor Dagorath has not yet happened! It is at the end of time, and so it is an incorrect question to ask what became of Melkor after it.

What WILL become of him? Well, my guess is that he will remain banished, in the void, but even Manwë knows not what will happen in those times!


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## Mirak Dagan (Aug 12, 2017)

Azrubêl said:


> Dagor Dagorath has not yet happened! It is at the end of time, and so it is an incorrect question to ask what became of Melkor after it.
> 
> What WILL become of him? Well, my guess is that he will remain banished, in the void, but even Manwë knows not what will happen in those times!


But if it were to happen and he was Death/Destroyed/Defeated, do you think there'll ever be someone like him (Melkor) rise up again in the Second Music of the Ainur (The next Arda) ?


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## Azrubêl (Aug 12, 2017)

Mirak Dagan said:


> But if it were to happen and he was Death/Destroyed/Defeated, do you think there'll ever be someone like him (Melkor) rise up again in the Second Music of the Ainur (The next Arda) ?



No, there is a lack of time continuity between the two. The Second Music is a new world, in which the perfect plan of Ilúvatar is fully manifest.

Although it can be noted, late in his life, Tolkien talked of removing the Dagor Dagorath from his mythology.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Aug 12, 2017)

I thought that this should be worth noting, but didn't Tolkien muse about Eru literally _entering _into Arda to save it? I know that was mentioned somewhere, maybe the Athrabeth? I just don't know if this was separate from the Dagor Dagorath or not.

A little something The Professor mused.


CL


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## Mirak Dagan (Aug 13, 2017)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> I thought that this should be worth noting, but didn't Tolkien muse about Eru literally _entering _into Arda to save it? I know that was mentioned somewhere, maybe the Athrabeth? I just don't know if this was separate from the Dagor Dagorath or not.
> 
> A little something The Professor mused.
> 
> ...


Here's what I found, a nice fan film about the event @http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRfrAokhP9E, also, the Ainulindalë @http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy7a6yUc8zo



Azrubêl said:


> No, there is a lack of time continuity between the two. The Second Music is a new world, in which the perfect plan of Ilúvatar is fully manifest.
> 
> Although it can be noted, late in his life, Tolkien talked of removing the Dagor Dagorath from his mythology.


I see, that probably how Tolkien planned to end his saga. But later abandoned this idea due to some unknown reason. I hope after the copyright has expired, someone will pick up where he left off so that we won't have to stuck here forever.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Aug 13, 2017)

Mirak Dagan said:


> Here's what I found, a nice fan film about the event @http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRfrAokhP9E, also, the Ainulindalë @http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy7a6yUc8zo


Thanks for the link! I very much enjoyed that video!

CL


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## Azrubêl (Aug 13, 2017)

Mirak Dagan said:


> I see, that probably how Tolkien planned to end his saga. But later abandoned this idea due to some unknown reason. I hope after the copyright has expired, someone will pick up where he left off so that we won't have to stuck here forever.



I would like to know, as well. I'm sure there are some letters or comments from him regarding it. 
I actually hope no one does continue his mythology, because it would be garbage


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