# Question on passage meaning from Of The Sun And Moon....



## GuardianRanger (Jan 29, 2003)

I've read this passage a couple of times, and I'm still not 100% sure to it's meaning:

Manwe says:


> "So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Ea, and evil yet be good to have been."



Does this refer to the coming of men, or have I missed something?

Thoughts?

Thanks.


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## Niniel (Jan 29, 2003)

I don't think so. I suppose Manwe means that Feanor will do great deeds that are indeed worthy of song, but that because of Feanor's deeds there will also be very much pain and suffering. But, Manwe says, all this pain was worth it because Feanor will also be the cause of beauty, and I think this is the 'beauty not before conceived'.This might be supposed to refer to the coming of Men, but I don't see how Feanor's actions are the cause of the coming of Men, so I'm not sure Manwe is talking about Men here.


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## Manwë Súlimo (Jan 29, 2003)

That goes along with Eru talking to Melkor saying that Melkor cannot make anything that did not have it's uttermost source in him. for through the evil deeds of Melkor and Fëanor things of beauty that would not have come to pass will.


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## GuardianRanger (Jan 29, 2003)

Thanks.

That explains it a lot clearer. After reading your responses, it doesn't look like it deals with the coming of men.


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## Grond (Feb 2, 2003)

I think it refers to many of the wondrous things that were made by the Noldor in Middle-earth. The memory of Nargothrond and Gondolin were memorialized in song. Their beauty was the thing of myths. The Battle of Fingolfin before Melkor/Morgoth became legend. So many wonderful things came from both the Evil of Morgoth and the evil of the Curse of Feanor.


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## Niniel (Feb 2, 2003)

Exactly, but the coming of Men was not the result of the coming of the Noldor into Beleriand and of Feanor's actions. So the passage does not relate to Men IMO.


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