# Sam and the Ring. Did Tolkien forget something?



## Talimon (Nov 26, 2002)

I was reading over TTT again, and it all of a sudden hit me that Sam never takes off the ring. When TTT ends Sam still has the ring on. He has just been knocked "senseless":



> The great doors slammed to. Boom. The bars of iron fell into place inside. Clang. The gate was shut. Sam hurled himself against the bolted brazen plates and fell *senseless* to the ground. He was out in the darkness. Frodo was alive but taken by the enemy.



The next we hear of Sam is him regaining conciousness (in RotK):



> Sam roused himself painfully from the ground. For a moment he wondered where he was, and then all the misery and despair returned to him. He was in the deep dark outside the under-gates of the orcs' stronghold; its brazen doors were shut. *He must have fallen stunned when he hurled himself against them;* but how long he had laid there he did not know.



My point is this: there is no lapse in time between the end of TTT and the beginning of RotK. Just a bit of Sam knocked out. Now, some might argue this is sufficient enough time for the ring to have fallen off his finger. Perhaps, but I don't buy that for one simple reason: the ring being worn wasn't something Tolkien would have left out, and it being dropped off Sam's finger would have been mentioned, at very least in passing. The next we hear of the ring is Sam putting it on *again*. This is about 2 pages into book six:



> Without any clear purpose he drew out the Ring and put it on _again_.



Tolkien clearly says "again". Yet, as far as I can tell, Sam never takes it off. The only logical explanation is that it fell off when Sam was knocked out hitting the gates, but its not like Tolkien to simply leave a detail this important out. Perhaps someone who's read the histories has an explanation for this. Somehow I can't see this as being intentional, though.


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## Niniel (Nov 26, 2002)

There has been a thread about this before (like 6 months ago), but I don't remember what the conclusion was. I believe nobody had a real explanation and the possibility of Tolkien making a mistake wasn't ruled out, although I personally can't believe that Tolkien would forget something like this.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 26, 2002)

Writing tLOTR was a long process that required a lot of thought. Old Mr.T did very well in filling in the gaps but obviously even he left out some details. I think many readers didn't even notice that.


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## BrandonBrassbow (Nov 26, 2002)

having came to the end of TTT last week, and when i got to book 6 a few days ago, i wondered the same thing. i didn't remember Sam taking off the Ring, but i just assumed that i missed it or didn't pick up on it in the reading. but if you noticed it too, i suppose i didn't miss much. 

i think tolkien probably made the mistake. i'm sure he knew what happened in his head, but accidently left it out. in the foreward, he said that he noticed some mistakes, but didn't feal obliged to fix them. maybe that was one that he was speaking of.


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## Talimon (Nov 27, 2002)

The reason most folks don't notice this is because there is this gap there between the two. This gap also happens to be one of the most exciting in the whole tale (the battle of Pellenor Field) so it's easy for small details to slip. I always assumed Sam had been struggling there for a while before we get back to him, but if you read the the two sectons (the end of book 4 and the beginning of book 6) you find that no time passed, other then in the unconcious.


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## Killabee3 (Nov 28, 2002)

> Without any clear purpose he drew out the Ring and put it on again.


sam had it on his fingure all along, what i think he ment by "drew out the ring" was just get it off his fingure, but put it back on again maybe cause of the powerful effect of the ring.


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## Niniel (Nov 28, 2002)

No, that can't be. 'He drew out the Ring', thet must mean he took it out of his pocket or something, he can't draw something OUT of his finger right?


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## Lantarion (Nov 28, 2002)

> Without any clear purpose he drew out the Ring and put it on again.


The former is possible, I'd say; if he had it on his finger, he would still be 'drawing it out' by bringing his hand forth. But the latter does not work, because to put it on he would have to have if it _off_ first! 
Welcome to the forum, Killabee!


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## Merry (Nov 29, 2002)

Maybe we wasn't meant to view this too seriously. The key point is that Sam recognised the ring and it's power as being a safe guard against natural eye sight so he decided to use it to conceal himself. This point can only be emphasized by Sam making a conscious decision to draw out the ring and put it on (although the reader still thinks he has it on).

LOTR would not be greatly improved by the added line 'Sam took off the ring'.


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## Finrod (Nov 30, 2002)

maybe the ring hopped off of his finger? It has a mind of its own e.g. "seeking out a new victim"


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## Confusticated (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Finrod _
> *maybe the ring hopped off of his finger? It has a mind of its own e.g. "seeking out a new victim" *



Welcome to the forum Finrod. 

I think that if there was an explaination for this it would have been in the book. I have no doubts that this was a mistake, so I think it is up to each person to imagine what happend. 

Just my opinion.


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## quickbeam (Dec 30, 2002)

It goes without saying that Sam took off the ring when the immediate danger of being spotted by orcs had passed. Why does Tolkien need to mention every little detail?


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## Marenautha (Jan 10, 2003)

Oh my goodness, guys!
I haven't read that far in the book yet. I didn't know Sam would ever have the ring! 
Man. Now I've gotta really hurry and finish reading!


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## Nardil (Jan 10, 2003)

Tolkien writes a lot of small details but he still leaves out a lot and leaves it up to the readers imagination. Is adding that Sam took off the ring of much importance? The focus of that passage was Sam trying to follow the orcs and find Frodo so it is conceivable that he may have left that detail out.


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## gandalfthegreat (Jan 10, 2003)

Oh I know what happened...when Sam was knocked unconscious, the little green men came out of the sky in a little ship. When they landed, the leader Gary walked forward and took the ring from the finger of Sam. He then got back in the ship and the green men took off. They then realized they are little green men from outer space and don't need no stinkin rings...so they landed again and being the slippery minded green man he was, Gary slipped the ring back into the pocket of Mr. Gamgee. Then the little men left to find some rare cheeses in the Mines of Moria...The End...Ok problem solved...next question.


 Gandalf*-


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## Talimon (Jan 14, 2003)

Let me repeat: This *does not* ruin or even hurt the tale in any way. I will not accept, however, that Tolkien simply chose to not mention it. I merely consider it to be a minor error, and only made a post about it because I had never heard anyone else mention it before. Call it "nit-picking" if you will, but by Tolkiens standards I think it is a little more then just a nit-pick. We are talking about the ring, after all. At the very least I believe he'd have included a line explaining how Sam now noticed the ring was no longer on his finger.


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## Lantarion (Jan 14, 2003)

I was just wondering: what is the big deal? A tiny little misplaced word, hardly serious enough to be called an error, which, as Talimon said, does not alter or change or even affect the course of the story.. Looks like grand-scale nitpicking to me.


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## Confusticated (Jan 14, 2003)

> hardly serious enough to be called an error...


Well an error is an error, even if not serious enough to ruin something. I too think this is an error rather than Tolkien intentionally not mentioning how the ring came off of Sam's finger, or even that it had come off at all.

Nit-picking? Perhaps... but I've seen worse. 

What I want to know is how "Gand-scale nit-picking" differs from "nit-picking"... 

Seems a tad oxymoronic to me... Ponti... Lantarion


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## FoolOfATook (Jan 14, 2003)

Maybe Sam made a mistake when he was recording the story in the Red Book of Westmarch- after all, there was a whole lot going on for him to keep it all straight.


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