# Related to Turgon?



## Inderjit S (Jul 27, 2005)

The following point is taken from another post I made some time ago, regarding Voronwë and how he could be related to Turgon, as he claims he is, but it was only a small point in a much larger thread and wasn't discussed in depth, though it would be nice to see what people think about it.

'Voronwë', friend of Tuor is a possible Finwëan. He tells Tuor that he holds kinship with Turgon, king of Gondolin. His mother is a unnamed Sindarin lady who is related to Círdan. His father's name is 'Aranwë'. 'Aran' is Sindarin for 'King' whilst the 'wë' suffix is said to be C.E for 'person'. So could the name 'Aranwë' imply some kind of royal lineage? Could Aranwë be the son of Lalwen? Of course when Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin was written the charcter of 'Lalwen' didn't exist, Finwë had no daughters. Could he be related to Turgon's wife, Elenwë. Of course Elenwë was a Vanya and Voronwë a Ñoldor but his father may have been half-Vanya and inter-marriages did take place between Vanya and Ñoldor. Or maybe he was related to Anairë?

And in "Last Writings" Glorfindel is said to be a relative of Turgon-how do you think he was related to him?


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## baragund (Aug 1, 2005)

Inder, do you hear that whooshing sound? It is the sound of the subject material going over my head and leaving me in the dust...  

Sorry, I can't help you because I haven't made my way to Tolkien's last writings yet. But if you point me to where this is mentioned, I'll review it and give you my two cents...


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## Thorondor_ (Aug 1, 2005)

Voronwe, "son of Aranwe, of Gondolin" appears in Silmarillion (of the fifth battle, Nirnaeth Arnoediad) as being sent by Turgon to sail to the valar to ask for help.
In UT (of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin) he tells to the guard:


> Then he spoke proudly, saying: "Know you not whom you see? I am Voronwe son of Aranwe of the House of Fingolfin. Or am I forgotten in my own land after a few years? Far beyond the thought of Middle-earth I have wandered, yet I remember your voice, Elemmakil."


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## Arvedui (Aug 2, 2005)

A long shot, Inderjit:
Maybe your theory on _Lalwen_ is correct?
Maybe JRRT included _Lalwen_ so that _Voronwë_'s claim was correct? It wouldn't have been the only instance where older stories where adjusted to have them fitted in with newer ones.
_Galadriel_ is an example of a person that "grew" as _The Silmarillion _ developed.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 2, 2005)

It is an interesting case though. I mean why would he claim to be of the House of Fingolfin when he wasn't related to him? But then again Gildor claims to be of the House of Finarfin and we don't know of he was related to them, perhaps "house" loosely translated to "people" or one of the main followers of Fingolfin, but why would he want to state such a thing in Gondolin, where everybody followed Turgon, the son of Fingolfin. Perhaps he was not related to Turgon's wife, but to Fingolfin's wife, though would that put him in the "house" of Fingolfin? He seems to be rather specific about being in the "house" of Fingolfin, i.e implying that he was descended from him or a close relation, not merely distantly related to him or a relation via marriage, as Glorfindel may have been.


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## Arvedui (Aug 3, 2005)

Yes, it is indeed interesting.
Again, as with the "Does Balrogs have wings?"-studies, it depends a lot on how to interpret Tolkien's use of words. Him being a philologists, I guess it is fair to say that he had a reason for using the terms as he did.
So my opinion is that when Voronwë claims kinship with Turgon, he claim to be somewhat directly related, not just a "follower," as I also think is indicated when the phrase "of the house of" is used.
But how Voronwë and Glorfindel is related to Turgon is unfortunately beyond my comprehension.


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## Ingwë (Aug 3, 2005)

Thorondor_ said:


> Voronwe, "son of Aranwe, of Gondolin" appears in Silmarillion (of the fifth battle, Nirnaeth Arnoediad) as being sent by Turgon to sail to the valar to ask for help.
> In UT (of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin) he tells to the guard:
> 
> 
> > Then he spoke proudly, saying: "Know you not whom you see? I am Voronwe son of Aranwe of the House of Fingolfin. Or am I forgotten in my own land after a few years? Far beyond the thought of Middle-earth I have wandered, yet I remember your voice, Elemmakil."


Of the House of Fingolfin... I think that the Elves of the house of Fingolfin are akin  His mother is Sindar (or Sinda  ? Which is correct in English?) but his father is a Noldor. It is quite possible to be related to Turgon or any Elf of the house of Fingolfin


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## Inderjit S (Sep 21, 2005)

I found the answer to my question. In his drafts for the Silmarillion, found in HoME 11, Tolkien refers to the Noldor of Gondolin as being 'of the house of Fingolfin'-therefore 'house' also means 'people', I guess.


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