# What happened to Morgoth?



## Kahmûl (Jan 21, 2003)

I would like to know what happens to Morgoth when he is defeated?


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## Celebthôl (Jan 21, 2003)

he is thown into the void, which i believe (i may be wrong) is like space to us!


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## FoolOfATook (Jan 21, 2003)

He began directing films for New Line, if you listen to some of the debate in the movies forums. 



> But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void; and a guard is set for ever on those walls, and Earendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky.



From the very last paragraph of _The Quenta Silmarillion_


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## Manwë Súlimo (Jan 23, 2003)

Morgoth comes back to arda later when the Valar grow weary and the gaurd is lessened upon the void where he is then killed by Túrin.


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## Tar-Elenion (Jan 23, 2003)

Morgoth (the physical form) was executed. His spirit was then cast out into the 'Void' (which should mean outside of Creation/Ea, but more likely refers to just being cast out of Arda).


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo _
> *Morgoth comes back to arda later when the Valar grow weary and the gaurd is lessened upon the void where he is then killed by Túrin. *



If I am not mistaken, Tolkien later abandoned "The Dagor Dagorath (The Last Battle)" and it is not considered canon.


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## Kahmûl (Jan 24, 2003)

Where did you find the information that Turin killed him?


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 24, 2003)

It is in one of the HOME books.


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## Kahmûl (Jan 28, 2003)

Do you know which one?


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## Confusticated (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tar-Elenion _
> *Morgoth (the physical form) was executed. His spirit was then cast out into the 'Void' (which should mean outside of Creation/Ea, but more likely refers to just being cast out of Arda). *


I have assumed that Void = outside of Ea.
What makes it morely likely that this just refers to him being cast outside of Arda?

Do you think there is an actual void within Ea that he can not get out of, or is he simply unable to get into Arda?

This is interesting if he is just unable to get into Arda but can roam freely about the rest of Ea. To me, it means that Morgoth could be raising hell elsewhere. Or interacting in ways that I didn't expect he could. Especially considering that the fear of men leave Arda.


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nóm _
> *
> This is interesting if he is just unable to get into Arda but can roam freely about the rest of Ea. To me, it means that Morgoth could be raising hell elsewhere. Or interacting in ways that I didn't expect he could. Especially considering that the fear of men leave Arda. *



But the fear of Men supposedly go to the Timeless Halls of Ilúvatar, don't they? Húrin also says that while Morgoth can enslave and torment Men in life (in Arda), he will never be able to pursue them after they die. So I doubt they go into the Void...or that the Void leads to anywhere else. It is empty, and time lies still there.


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## f0enix_rising (Jan 30, 2003)

*Morgoth & the Void*

[LAME HUMOR]Didn't Morgoth get cast into a 2 dimensional glass prison, then sent into space for eternity?[/LAME HUMOR]

Nevermind, I need more coffee.


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 30, 2003)

No, that was General Zod, a.k.a. Terence Stamp.

ROTFL!


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## f0enix_rising (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *No, that was General Zod, a.k.a. Terence Stamp.
> 
> ROTFL! *


 Thanks bro for getting the reference! I hate to show my age!


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## Grond (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kahmul _
> *Do you know which one? *


 Most of the Last Battle scenarios are summarized in the following post. http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=121245#post121245


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## Grond (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tar-Elenion _
> *Morgoth (the physical form) was executed. His spirit was then cast out into the 'Void' (which should mean outside of Creation/Ea, but more likely refers to just being cast out of Arda). *


 I thought I remembered reading in either the Sil or one of the HoMe books that the Valar wanted to execute Melkor but realized that they could not do so. Only the direct will of Eru could accomplish Melkor ultimate defeat. 

I do not doubt your statement but would appreciate being directed to which book it is from so that I may become more informed/educated.


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## Tar-Elenion (Feb 2, 2003)

"Morgoth was thus actually made captive in physical form, and in that form taken as a mere criminal to Aman and delivered to Namo Mandos as judge -and executioner. He was judged, and eventually taken out of the Blessed Realm and executed: that is killed like one of the Incarnates. ...

We read that he was then thrust out into the Void. That should mean that he was put outside Time and Space, outside Ea altogether; but if that were so this would imply a direct intervention of Eru (with or without supplication of the Valar). It may however refer inaccurately* to the extrusion or flight of his spirit from Arda. ... 

*[footnote to the text] Since the minds of Men (and even of the Elves) were inclined to confuse the 'Void', as a conception of the state of Not-being, outside Creation or Ea, with the conception of vast spaces within Ea, especially those conceived to lie all about the enisled 'Kingdom of Arda' (which we should probably call the Solar System)." 

Quoted from Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed


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