# Trees and Stars.



## Omeganian (Mar 1, 2009)

After the Two Trees were poisoned, Yavanna said she could heal them with "but a little of that light". Now, the Silmarils were gone, right, but why didn't they use the stars to at least heal one Tree? According to Chapter 3, a good number of those were made out of Telperion's dew.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 1, 2009)

I guess the dew does not have the same properties as the light itself?


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## Turgon (Mar 1, 2009)

I think it was for this reason:

The Stars, like the Trees themselves, or indeed the Silmarils, were a masterwork, a work that could not be repeated - even if it were possible to use the stars to accomplish the deed. Also unlike the Silmarils, the stars held the light of Telperion only, it could be that both trees needed to be healed, not just the one. Given the precision and the beauty that both Laurelin and Telperion waxed and waned together with - it could be seen as fixing just one hand of the clock (not a great example of course - but you see where I'm coming from hopefully...)

Anyway, just a few quick ideas.


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## Bucky (Mar 1, 2009)

I suppose the stars were too distant and and remote also....

Here's another question:

Why didn't Yavanna just use the single fruit & leaf's light that came forth from each tree to become the sun & the moon the revive the trees?

They obviously had light in them & the trees did not wither & die until they came forth....

Perhaps she didn't have time?

The story does say that the trees died after the last fruit & leaf came forth, giving the impression of immediacy.


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## Úlairi (Mar 2, 2009)

[Buckyprint]*I think you've possibly answered your own question there, Bucky.*[/Buckyprint] 



Turgon said:


> I think it was for this reason:
> 
> The Stars, like the Trees themselves, or indeed the Silmarils, were a masterwork, a work that could not be repeated - even if it were possible to use the stars to accomplish the deed. Also unlike the Silmarils, the stars held the light of Telperion only, it could be that both trees needed to be healed, not just the one. Given the precision and the beauty that both Laurelin and Telperion waxed and waned together with - it could be seen as fixing just one hand of the clock (not a great example of course - but you see where I'm coming from hopefully...)
> 
> Anyway, just a few quick ideas.


 
Quite a good point there about only being able to heal Telperion, Turgon.

Your most cogent point (your masterpoint ), is however, the concept that the Two Trees and the Silmarils were inimitable works that encapsulated pre-Fall existence in Arda (see _Letter _#_131_ about this particularly)_._ It derives from the primordial nature of _Light _and its fallen state of _Darkness_. The _Light _was extant in two transcendant symbols and could only thus be revived from either of these. The stars were, in a sense, derivatives of the Light of Valinor which was yet uncorrupted and unsullied by evil. Once evil had debauched the Two Trees which induced a Fall (or _the _Fall) this "_art undivorced from reason_" could only be revived by the other symbol, the Silmarils. Perhaps another explanation is an examination of the idea of _Paradise_, which requires the habitation of the greatest created beings in existence. The stars and the Void is no such place; however Valinor is. 



> _The Letters of JRR Tolkien_ - #_297: Drafts for a letter to 'Mr Rang'_
> 
> *...the Silmaril, which contained the last remnant of the unsullied Light of Paradise, given by the Two Trees before their defilement and slaying by Morgoth.*


 
It was thus due to the nature of the Light from the Two Trees as being the Light that dwelt in Paradise - Arda Unmarred. It was only through the Silmaril which contained the last of it that the Trees could be saved.



> _The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë - The Music of the Ainur_
> 
> *...but Melkor too was there from the first, and he meddled in all that was done, turning it if he might to his own desires and purposes ... nowhere and in no work was their [the Valar] will and purpose wholly fufilled, and all things were in hue and shape other than the Valar had first intended...*


 
At the time when Arda was forged there was great tumult and calamity due _to The Marring of Arda _by Melkor. The creation of the stars would also have been defiled by the hand of Morgoth and as such could not have been used in the restoration of the Two Trees, which gave out the unsullied Light of Paradise. Despite a_ pure source _of Light used in the subcreation of other stars by Varda in preparation for the Awakening of the Elves, this Light would have blended with the fallen light of the first stars.

I personally believe the most compelling argument to be that of the _fëar _of the Two Trees were unhoused (see under _cöacalina _in _Morgoth's Ring _and the references to the _inner fire_ of the Silmarils in _The Life of the Silmarils _thread). Thus the _fëar_ of the Two Trees could not be created again as Yavanna, being only a Vala and not having the Creative Power of the One, did not have the power to do so, save only by the will of Ilúvatar. Eru did not grant this to Yavanna as it was not his will - the fulfilment of the Music and Fate of Arda now being contained within the Silmarils; which led to the _Noldolantë. _The ultimate achievement of Eru's purpose was not to be through the revival of the Two Trees. 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Omeganian (Mar 17, 2009)

BTW, I've been reading the LOTR agains, and one place suggested to me another way to restore the Trees... The Palantiri. Maybe you could focus on the light of the Trees at the past, and make it shine from the stone.


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## Prince of Cats (Mar 17, 2009)

Interesting idea, Omeganian. And I really like this topic in general that you've brought forth

Let's see what this would require. The two trees, do they still stand in Valinor and would these be the trees restored? I'm assuming Yavannah would be needed to do the deed, too, so this is going to happen in Valinor. Somehow a Palantiri would need to reach Valinor (there aren't any there, are there?). From there ... who knows?  That's such a cool idea you came up with, Omeganian!


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## YayGollum (Mar 17, 2009)

Because the elves and the Ainur are crazy. All or nothing, yo! 

"With but a little of that light, I could totally remake the trees!" 

"Sorry, lady. We've only got a bit of Telperion's light." 

"Truly? Varda never thought to add some variety to the night sky and paste some Laurelin up there?" 

"Ah, well, there are some kind of whitish stars, and some kind of reddish stars, and-" 

"No Laurelin anywhere? Well, we can't just have one capitalized Tree! That's just plain craziness. Two Trees. That's how it's supposed to be. Wait. How's about the Silmarils? Both lights there, huh?" 

"Sure, let's go ask our good buddy Feanor to destroy the greatest achievement of elfkind!" 

"Hey! You attempting to usurp Mandos's place as the god of sarcasm?" 

"As a matter of course, no. Either way, you know that he'll make a large deal about how he'll never be so awesome again. Come on. You're the gods! You can entirely whip up some new trees, no problem. Maybe if only one of you could make them, I could understand even one of you not having enough creepy as well as magical power, but it's a team effort, and you guys have plenty of juice to spare." 

"Ah, is that what you were thinking? Actually, we're supposed to be hoarding our power, so that when that jerk Mel thinks that he's finally going to be happy, we show up and easily beat him up without even any tension to the fight. Just a quick little tussle, and we'll get rid of him, then go back to hoarding, so that we can do nothing while some famous human does all of the work when Mel comes back for a rematch." 

"Oh? Ah, don't you think that my way would be nicer? Additionally, we don't mind a bit of tension, truly. Great stories are full of it! Or we could do away with all of the tension, and you could kick the guy out now?" 

"No, I'm sure that this way will work out just fine. Boy, Feanor lives way out in the sticks, doesn't he? Like he's trying to avoid us or something! So impudent!"


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## Omeganian (Mar 18, 2009)

Prince of Cats said:


> Somehow a Palantiri would need to reach Valinor (there aren't any there, are there?).



Gandalf said they were probably made by Feanor, and certainly by Noldor.


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## Thorondor_ (Mar 18, 2009)

Prince of Cats said:


> Somehow a Palantiri would need to reach Valinor (there aren't any there, are there?


Well, it is possible that there aren't any Palantiri in Valinor, however Gandalf did say that he would like to see Feanor at work (which would only be possible for the time when he was in Valinor, since afterwards he had only wicked stuff on his mind). However, I would say that the Palantiri merely offer access to a memory, I doubt that seeing the light inside the palantiri would offer any sort of benefit, other than emotional/mental.


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## Withywindle (Aug 4, 2009)

I don't think it was a question of just shining a bit of light over the Trees to give them new life; the Valars' request for Feanor to hand the silmarils over, and Feanor's denying them , imply that the silmarils would have to be destroyed in order to release the virtue in them that could restore the Trees.


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## childoferu (Aug 4, 2009)

Withywindle said:


> I don't think it was a question of just shining a bit of light over the Trees to give them new life; the Valars' request for Feanor to hand the silmarils over, and Feanor's denying them , imply that the silmarils would have to be destroyed in order to release the virtue in them that could restore the Trees.


 
Sigh Feanor, such a stubborn elf, although I think the greater will[of Eru] was done regardless, for that "virtue" to dwell in the earth, sky, and sea 

instead of being all hoarded up in Valinor...


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## Withywindle (Aug 4, 2009)

Indeed, CoE, the world was a better place without the Two Trees. Circumstances forced the Valar to spread the joy as it were by making the Sun and Moon. Had Feanor acquiesced, the Valar would have shut themselves up in their own little paradise again and left Men in the dark.

Feanor in this, as in everything, was absolutely right to follow his instincts!


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