# Adultery to emphasize...evil?



## Hisoka Morrow (Jun 11, 2021)

JRRT had used almost every kind of evil to describe Melkor, almost apart from only 1 kind-adultery.
For example, did the Numenorean human sacrifice to worship Melkor have orgies implied by JRRT, or did the so called"Numenor's corruption" include massive sex cult considered as immoral during JRRT's life?

Yes, were there any sources from JRRT's work, his statement about his work, or his authorized stuff mentioning that the so-called adultery to describe Melkor and his followers? Both direct and implied stuff are accepted. In order not to misguide you to break the forum's rules, no content about any controversial stuff such as sexual harassment or proposing subjective opinions about sex but only literature stuff are allowed.


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## Ealdwyn (Jun 11, 2021)

You're assuming that adultery is considered evil in Tolkien's universe, which seems to me a very big assumption.
Adultery as 'evil' is very much a Judaeo-Christian concept and stems from the traditional view in those societies of women as chattels.


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## m4r35n357 (Jun 11, 2021)

There is no shortage of lust in Beren & Luthien though, and I think in _both cases_ the Author intends it to look bad


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## Hisoka Morrow (Jun 11, 2021)

Ealdwyn said:


> You're assuming that adultery is considered evil in Tolkien's universe, which seems to me a very big assumption.
> Adultery as 'evil' is very much a Judaeo-Christian concept and stems from the traditional view in those societies of women as chattels.


Hmmm...I am pretty sure in chatholic theology, adultery is 1 of the 7 prime evil. OK... maybe my definition of adultery is too vague, how about sexual or love immoral stuff, such as rape as war crimes, cheating in a love relationship, or so on?


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## Ealdwyn (Jun 11, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Hmmm...I am pretty sure in chatholic theology, adultery is 1 of the 7 prime evil. OK... maybe my definition of adultery is too vague, how about sexual or love immoral stuff, such as rape as war crimes, cheating in a love relationship, or so on?


Well Tolkien was Catholic, but Arda isn't. 

Rape seems acceptable. Eol enchants Aredhel and then "takes her to wife" while she's enchanted and vulnerable - that seems pretty non-consensual to me. The line "she was not wholly unwilling" is all kinds of wrong, very much feels like victim-blaming.


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## m4r35n357 (Jun 11, 2021)

Ealdwyn said:


> Well Tolkien was Catholic, but Arda isn't.
> 
> Rape seems acceptable. Eol enchants Aredhel and then "takes her to wife" while she's enchanted and vulnerable - that seems pretty non-consensual to me. The line "she was not wholly unwilling" is all kinds of wrong, very much feels like victim-blaming.


Eol enchanted _her_. A slightly less "divine" thing than what Melian did to Thingol, imprisoning him for hundreds of years while his folk looked in vain for him? 

This is a perilous realm!

[EDIT] I just remembered, there is an attempted rape in The Children of Hurin; Turin foils it and kills the attacker.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Jun 11, 2021)

I couldn't imagine that JRRT had such a strange taste, thx for donations, gentlemen. >：D


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## 1stvermont (Jun 11, 2021)

Ealdwyn said:


> Adultery as 'evil' is very much a Judaeo-Christian concept and stems from the traditional view in those societies of women as chattels.



So if I cheat on my wife I am actually declaring her free, but if I think it morally wrong to cheat on her that is the same as declaring her my chattel? I am confused please help me understand modernity.


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## Ealdwyn (Jun 11, 2021)

1stvermont said:


> So if I cheat on my wife I am actually declaring her free, but if I think it morally wrong to cheat on her that is the same as declaring her my chattel? I am confused please help me understand modernity.


Er... not what I said at all


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## 1stvermont (Jun 11, 2021)

Ealdwyn said:


> Er... not what I said at all



My bad I must have misunderstood. I thought you had implied that those who see adultery as a moral wrong [Judeo-Christian like myself] was because we view women as slaves. BTW that is the first time i was told women were to be viewed as slaves, instead i thought they were divine image bearers who should be loved as Christ loves the church. But then again I am not up on my modernity and was looking for some revelations form you.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 11, 2021)

Let's try to keep the discussion to Tolkien, if we can, gents.


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## 1stvermont (Jun 11, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Let's try to keep the discussion to Tolkien, if we can, gents.



Sorry, I sometimes need to stop myself from.... well myself.


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## Miguel (Jun 11, 2021)

Númenor was already partly wicked long before Pharazôn's reign or the coming of Annatar.

Besides, i don't see tolkien writing about adultery, don't think he had much spare time to secretly meet Eulalia under the moonlight.


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