# Did Gimli lie to Eomer?



## Confusticated (Oct 3, 2002)

> He knelt for a while, bent with weeping, still clasping Boromir's hand.
> So it was that Legolas and Gimli found him. They came from the western slopes of the hill, silently, creeping through the trees as if they were hunting. Gimli had his axe in hand, and Legolas his long knife: all his arrows were spent. When they came into the glade they halted in amazement;and then they stood a moment with heads bowed in grief, for it seemed to them plain what had happened.
> 'Alas!' said Legolas, coming to Aragorn's side. '*We have hunted and slain many Orcs* in the woods, but we should have been of more use here...



Later on at Helm's Deep Gimli speaks to Eomer...


> 'There may be many a chance ere the night is over,' laughed the Dwarf. 'But I am content. Till now *I have hewn naught but wood since I left Moria*.'



Was this a lie to prevent Gimli from having to talk about what happend back by the river? Was it just forgetfulness on his part? If so, would't Legolas have corrected him? Was this a simple mistake by Tolkien? Or was it something different?


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## DGoeij (Oct 3, 2002)

I'd say it was a simple mistake. I haven't, until now, ever realised it was an incorrect statement by Gimli, simply because in the book, we are no witness of the actions of Legolas and Gimli at Amon Hen.
But you're right, Gimli's statment is not the truth. 
Maybe he meant more something like, 'I haven't had a good figth ever since we left Moria, because merely hunting and slaying retreating orcs isn't very honourable'.
I wonder if Tolkien himself ever noticed this mistake?


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## Pale King (Oct 3, 2002)

I expect that it is a simple mistake. Well spotted Confusticated.


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## Lindir (Oct 3, 2002)

I suppose it might be a mistake, but Legolas could have included Gimli in the statement even if the Dwarf didn't kill any of the Orcs in person. He was certainly part of the hunt in the woods and the 'we' could refer to the team of Legolas and Gimli. Legolas would probably have said 'I have hunted and slain...' only if he had been alone in the woods.
I use 'we' like that all the time. I would for example say 'We found a Bronze Age sword' regardless of who actually found it, as long as it happened at my excavation.


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## Confusticated (Oct 3, 2002)

Which do you think it was Lindir?
I agree that Legolas would have said "we" even if Gimli did not slay any orcs, but I think it is unlikely that Gimli would not have. Other options seem unlikely too. I have no opinion about this, just some ideas. I am hoping that someone will add something new that may make up my mind or even prove something to all of us.


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## Legolam (Oct 4, 2002)

Maybe Gimli was not using his axe to kill orcs on Amon Hen, and therefore it really had not "hewn naught but wood since Moria"

Just a thought ...


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## Confusticated (Oct 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Legolam _
> *Maybe Gimli was not using his axe to kill orcs on Amon Hen, and therefore it really had not "hewn naught but wood since Moria"
> 
> Just a thought ... *


I have considered that but I think it is not likely.

Any other ideas?


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## Anamatar IV (Oct 4, 2002)

yeah and i dont think hew refers only to axe blows. Maybe gimli didnt kill any orcs on aman hen. I would imagine that first they spent a while chasing them, then legolas shot them down, maybe gimli engaged in combat with some but didnt kill so legolas could shoot. Proabably a mistake though.


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## Anárion (Oct 5, 2002)

Well, Gimili had just seen the Glittering Caves, and no other site awed him so, so maybe he was in a good mood and didnt want to talk about something that would just get him depressed again.


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## Confusticated (Oct 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anárion _
> *Well, Gimili had just seen the Glittering Caves, and no other side awed him so, so maybe he was in a good mood and didnt want to talk about something that would just get him depressed again. *




Yep! You've got it. 
That is it! That also explains why he didn't mention Moria.


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## Anárion (Oct 6, 2002)

Wow, Im right for once!
That never happens...
Im so proud of myself


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## EverEve (Oct 6, 2002)

Wowee, you should be! It is possible that it was a mistake, but I think your right that that battle would be depressing. i seriously would have never caught that mistake though.


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## Confusticated (Oct 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anárion _
> *Wow, Im right for once!
> That never happens...
> Im so proud of myself *


Well...
I was just kidding with you, I was being sarcastic (in a friendly way though) I thought this reply by you was doing the same, but perhaps not. 
You reasoned that Gimli did not mentioned the battle near the river because it would be depressing for him: He did mention Moria though, and I would like to know how you think that is different.


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## Anárion (Oct 6, 2002)

Hmm.....well.....
I think you got me, because thinking of Moria would depress him.
However maybe he didnt trust Eomer quite yet? And therefore he did not want to say that too him, however that is doubtful.
I am thinking however, that maybe a close friend dieing is more grevious then a friend of your father and other beings of your race.
Think about it: Gimli would have been sad, but not THAT sad, he would have been sadder(is that a word?) when Boromir died.
Also, people die in this world every day, and we dont really know them, and dont think about it. But when your close friend dies, you grieve very much, and you do grieve if a freind of your fathers dies, yes, but a much closer friend you would grieve much more, especially when you knew that man and were traveling with him on a great quest, and you had been through hard times together.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 28, 2004)

Truthfully, my thought would be "Where, when, and for what purpose was Gimli hewing wood?"

It just doesn't seem like him to stop in the midst of their journey to chop down a tree. 

Anyway, it could be said that he was just being poetic to make a point. When one is witty one is careless with the truth, or however it is said.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 28, 2004)

I see no reason as to why Gimli would want to lie to Eomer, with regards to the attack by the river, since Aragorn had already informed Eomer of the attack-and the fact that the Ork's took the hobbits captive. 

I also do not think that Gimli didn't slay any Orks. Legolas uses the word "we", plural, implying him and Gimli, some argue that he was just using "we" as a matter of course but I don't think so. He also had his knife out, maybe it was because he had lost all his arrows, but I cannot help but think there was some close, hand-to-hand fighting. 

I think it was just a slip. There are quite a few of them, if you take enough notice. Why does Aragorn think the Ents are a Rohirric legend if they helped his father in his attack on the Dwarves of Nogord? He knew the Lay of Leithian.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 29, 2004)

I think this is just a slip. . .but I DO have what I consider to be a perfectly good explanation for the Ent one, and I'm sticking to it.


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## AustintheGreen (Aug 29, 2004)

Don't you guys ever skip over certain events in your recent history when summarizing to someone in order to avoid the inevitable inquirey into something that is best left undisturbed in your memory for a time. The fellowship had lost both Boromir and Gandalf within a moon of each other. Perhaps Gimli simply wanted to make a statement without digging up the recent painful past.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 30, 2004)

Possibly, but why miss it out anyway? It's not like Eomer is going to ask Gimli a dozen questions about it, he already knows that they were attacked by Orks, who kidnapped their friends. And if Gimli was thinking about it and decided not to mention it that does not take away from the fact that he was thinking about it, and so the painful memories were already there, even if he did not mention them. And I think they must have spoken and thought about if a awful lot. And it wouldn't really have hurt much to say "the falls of Rauros" instead of Moria.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 31, 2004)

I could believe that if this were a skip over, but this isn't. It is an add in. 

He didn't have to say anything at this point. He wasn't answering a question really. He was just making a poetic, unnecessary, point about how he would like to "Hunt some Orc." 

The only slip on Gimli's part I could believe is that he wanted to be poetic, even at the expense of trimming the truth. 

But I don't know if this fits with his character. . .He can be poetic,but he is also very blunt.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jan 1, 2019)

A little thread necromancy:

Christopher concludes it was indeed a slip, I _think _due to some shuffling of the drafts, though I can't check, not being near my library.

I believe the prolongation of the company's march through Lothlorien was responsible for a similar contradiction, when Aragorn says "But tonight I shall sleep without fear for the first time since I left Rivendell", even though the previous night they had "rested and slept without fear upon the ground".


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