# Should Bilbo have killed Gollum



## The Dark Walker (Dec 4, 2001)

I mean it was old Smeagol that told Sauron of Bagins, and at last by killing the little squirmer Gandalf would have more time to prepare to destroy the Ring. I know that Sauron had risen yad yada, but it was said that he had overlooked Hobbits and was weakened by the loss of his ring, this would have ultimatly given the good guys way more time.


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## Mr. Underhill (Dec 4, 2001)

The Ring would still have to have been destroyed for complete victory over Sauron, and it was Gollum who inevitably caused this to happen.


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## The Dark Walker (Dec 4, 2001)

You look but don't reply, is that a yes or no?
Come on just answer!


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## The Dark Walker (Dec 4, 2001)

Yeah but the outcome has squiqloads of variations no matter what.
And i never said they wouldn't try to destroy the ring.


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## tookish-girl (Dec 4, 2001)

Gollum is too pitiful a character for anyone to kill, Bilbo was a sweet soul who didn't want to harm him and it was for the best that he didn't or else the entire Middle Earth would have been taken over by Evil Lord Frodo.


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## Gothmog (Dec 4, 2001)

No bilbo should not have killed Gollum.

At the time when Bilbo found the One ring, Gollum was not in a position to force a fight although he had threatened Bilbo. It was the fact that Bilbo did not start his keeping of the One with a pool of blood that allowed him to escape with so little damage from it.

Also, if Gollum Had been killed in Moria, how would the One have been destroyed at the Cracks of Doom? Frodo did not have the power to overcome the call of the ring! Sam could not have willingly done harm to Frodo no matter what! That left only Gollum and his greed. Without Gollum Frodo would have tried to claim the One and either he would have succeded and become himself the Dark Lord in Mordor or Sauron would have taken the One from him and there the war would have ended.


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## Greymantle (Dec 4, 2001)

There are so many different ways to approach this question... seeing the ramifications of keeping Gollum alive, I don't think any of us think he should have been killed. But there are other ways of putting the question, such as: Would _you_ have killed Gollum, put in Bilbo's place (Me, no); or, would you have _blamed_ Bilbo if he'd killed Gollum? (Me, again, no)


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## Telchar (Dec 5, 2001)

Well.. Hmm.. *Looks at Grey* You said it and I agree..


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## Merry (Dec 5, 2001)

I think that Smeagol was too innocent to have been murdered by Bilbo or Frodo. Gollum was a result of the terrifying power of the ring. Smeagol at times showed remorse for what he had become yet he didn't have the power to change it. If anyone feels that Gollum should have died, then they should also look at killing Frodo and Boromir as the ring too effected them, although not as severe.


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## ReadWryt (Dec 5, 2001)

Yeah, I can see it now...Bilbo kills Gollum, Frodo dons the ring at Mount Doom and falls in...now where is the happy ending in THAT?


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## Merry (Dec 5, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ReadWryt _
> *Yeah, I can see it now...Bilbo kills Gollum, Frodo dons the ring at Mount Doom and falls in...now where is the happy ending in THAT? *




Frodo stops acting like a tragic hero and the rest of the world moves on!! That would be a nice idea.


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## YayGollum (Dec 5, 2001)

Of course it's good that he didn't because Gollum is the hero and the greatest character.


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## DGoeij (Dec 5, 2001)

If Bilbo had killed Gollum he would have never been able to give up the Ring voluntarely. Either he would have been chased down by the Nazgul or Gandalf had to let him hand over the Ring by force, thereby creating a Bollum .


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## Tar-Steve (Dec 5, 2001)

It's always been my interpretation that noone in possesion of the ring could have destroyed it. I see succumbing to the ring's evil resulting from two forces: time of possesion or proximity to it's source. If you're standing at the crack of doom, the ring owns you right there. If Sam had taken the ring from Frodo, he would have done the same thing that Frodo did. A group effort would only end in betrayal and murder.

An "accident" like Gollum's is the only way for the ring to be cast into the fire. In the end, it is common people's capacity for mercy that destroys evil. Without that, all greatness and valor are pointless.

That's what I take from the story (you may see it differently). So ... no, Bilbo should not have killed Gollum because he didn't need to. His mercy saved them all.


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## tookish-girl (Dec 5, 2001)

That's an excellent point, but surely that means that Gollum _could_ have been killed by Bilbo and, as long as there was an accident, it didn't need to be Gollum who fell in with the ring.
I mean, a large stray Warg could have bitten off Frodo's finger and jumped into the crack, thus leaving the way open for anyone to kill Gollum, I would hve liked to see Sam do it with a frying pan.


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## The Dark Walker (Dec 5, 2001)

All good points but new question:
How many of you would kill gollum noing all would be well
Ihad Gollum i do, miserable whiner that he is


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## Lantarion (Dec 5, 2001)

I wouldn't! Poor bugger.. I'd probably drug him and send him into the Far South, where he wouldn't do any more harm!  But no, I suppose I would not be capable of killing anything that lives and breathes, no matter how much it looks like a frog.  
This all blends nicely into the chaos theory.. If Gollum had been killed, would Frodo have destroyed the Ring? Perhaps, and here are some possible explanations: Sam (who was bleeding and hurt on the ground at the time when the Frodo claimed the Ring) might have succumbed to the evil will of the Ring, which was at its height as it was so close to doom. And he might have grabbed at the Ring, and the two might have struggled until they fell into the Cracks of Doom, w/ the Ring.
Or, a small rock may have fallen onto Frodo's nose, causing him to topple over the edge.
Or Sam might have snatched the Ring away from Frodo, fully aware of the danger of the situation, and thrown it in himself.
There is an endless list! But I think the first is unlikely, as Sam was too good-hearted and simple to bend under the will of such an evil artefact.
whew! That's enough, I think..


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## tookish-girl (Dec 5, 2001)

I was thinking of a rock falling on Frodo before I came up with fantastic carnivorous Warg theory!


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## Tar-Steve (Dec 5, 2001)

> _Originally posted by tookish-girl _
> *but surely that means that Gollum could have been killed by Bilbo and, as long as there was an accident, it didn't need to be Gollum who fell in with the ring.
> *



I think you missed my point completely. It surely does not mean anything like that. What it means is that another substitute accident would not have taken place. It means that without the hobbits' acts of mercy, the ring would have been claimed, and then taken by Sauron.

But never mind.


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## Greymantle (Dec 5, 2001)

I wouldn't have killed Gollum... it's against both my nature and my principles to attempt to kill any creature except in defence of myself or another.


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## DGoeij (Dec 5, 2001)

I cannot post a honest NO on this one. But no true YES either....... Doesn't make much sense does it?  
Maybe killing him was the nicest thing one could do to him, given his mental and physical condition and all. But to kill him in cold blood? I don't think I could do that. At least not now. Maybe after 50 years of bloody warfare with ruthless orcish hordes, who knows?


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## Ashiq (Dec 5, 2001)

*Hmmm*

I believe it Gandalf mentioned to Frodo that it wasn't merely pity that stayed Bilbo's hand...but perhaps something greater?

In which case we're getting in on destiny and fate.

Therefore wouldn't it have been the Ring's fate to have been destroyed, Gollum or not?

Hmmm...I would have stabbed that lying pile of wretchedness...if I were Sam, especially after the Shelob incident. At least Sam did swear bloody murder  Oh yes precious...


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## The Dark Walker (Dec 6, 2001)

Yeah I guess I wouldn't kill him either. He's not that bad. But I might hit him a few times to get the whelp to shut up!


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## Tar-Steve (Dec 6, 2001)

BTW, Just want to say that anytime after the Shelob incident, no hesitation: Good Smeagol? ... No ... Dead Smeagol. Of course, then we'd all be "speaking orc" as the folks like to say.


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## Grond (Dec 6, 2001)

Way too many ifs in this thread. 
1) If Bilbo had killed Gollum, would Bilbo have been able to relinquish the Ring to Frodo??
2) If Bilbo had killed Gollum and had given the Ring to Frodo, would Frodo have been able to find an entrance into Mordor? (Don't forget ole Gollum led them in through the passes of Cirith Ungol.)
3) If Bilbo had killed Gollum and had given the Ring to Frodo and Frodo had found a way into Mordor, would he have been able to cast it into the fires of Mt. Doom??

Who the heck knows. These speculative threads are the most frustrating ones becuase there ain't no right answer. We can "what if" all day but it all comes down to the fact that Bilbo didn't kill Gollum, he gave the Ring to Frodo, Gollum led Frodo to Mordor and Gollum helped Frodo complete his quest. (albeit, unwillingly and unwittingly.)


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## Walter (Dec 8, 2001)

Well from the story itself it is quite evident that Bilbo shouldn't have killed Gollum - had he done that, the 3rd age certainly would have ended differently - even if it might have been more to the liking of some certain dark and evil creatures around here - and I'm not giving any names or looking at anyone in particular, not even at my predecessor in this thread 

On the other hand I have to admit I do like the speculative questions that leave room for speculation and fantasy and where the dumb people - like ol me - can take it up with the most firm ones of the lores


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## DGoeij (Dec 9, 2001)

Thats about the same reason why I keep on 'what ifing' on these subjects. I simply like to speculate, especially by trying to keep close to characters and all that.


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## YayGollum (Dec 11, 2001)

All of the Gollum fans here must go to the Gollum Fan Club. To you others I am glad that Bilbo did not kill Gollum just because and numbers 2 and 3 on Grond's list are good for people who care for nasty hobbitses.


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## The Dark Walker (Dec 12, 2001)

Oh Feth i think two people went1


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