# Vanyar deprived?



## Confusticated (Sep 25, 2003)

Do you think the Vanyar were deprived, and if so to what degree?


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## Beleg (Sep 25, 2003)

Deprived? Deprived in what way? If you mean they were deprived of all the excitement and action of the first age then I would say yes, but would it have been worth it if they had taken part in the heriocs of that age and got themselves wiped off? [Most probably].


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## Starflower (Sep 25, 2003)

deprived? of what? they got to stay in Valinor, literally sitting at Manwe's feet, surrounded by all the glory of the Valar. Deprived of the sorrows of Middle-earth yes, deprived of the terrors of the War with Morgoth yes. But no, I wouldn't call them deprived in any other sense.




Starflower


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## Inderjit S (Sep 25, 2003)

I think you need to clarify what you mean by 'deprived' Nom.


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## Lúthien Séregon (Sep 25, 2003)

I agree with Starflower, I think they had it the best out of all the Elves...


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## Confusticated (Sep 25, 2003)

Deprived, as in missed out on something they should not have.

But I was unspecific intentionally. 

The full experience of Arda.


I tend to see them as being obviously deprived of what an elf's life should be. Did they wander the lands and befriend beasts and enrich Arda with their beauty and skill? They mostly lived in Arda Unmarred, in the holy light, but doing what?

I just think they misssed the elf experience, loving the Tree light more than the stars or Arda Marred itself. The Valar were so content in the light of the Trees that they neglected the rest of Arda. Weren't the Vanyar exposed to, and in love with the light before they fully experienced Imbar, that habbitat that was created for them and that all the other elves seem to have made more use of and had more love for?


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## Lúthien Séregon (Sep 25, 2003)

Although they did miss out on the beauty of Arda and the creation of beautiful things within Middle-Earth, they also missed out on the grief and sorrow that came with it, and the eventual waning of the Elves. The other Elves' ( the Noldor, Teleri, etc. ) time on Middle-Earth was like a coin, sorrow comes with joy, darkness with beauty. So in the sense of experience, I still don't think the Vanyar were deprived...just sheltered, in a way.


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## Starflower (Sep 25, 2003)

I think the Vanyar were like children in a sense, they were content to just stay in Valinor, they didn;t want to go on adventures and explore things. They loved pretty things, as Vanyar are credited as creators of songs and poems and beautiful things. The Noldor were more like rebellious teenagers, they wanted things, they were proud and dint listen to advice of their elders. But one should not think the Vanyar weak or think less of them because they chose a different life



Starflower


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 25, 2003)

I agree with Nom's words,and I would like to add some things.
I think the Vanyar should have followed their brothers and sisters.But they didn't want to risk their peaceful way of living,and all advantages they had living in together with the Valar.I don't like this fact. They just lived in the easiest possible way.
And think also that when the elves who had been in ME returned to Aman,they were changed,enriched in every aspect of the word.The elves who came back were just more mature than the Vanyar.The long years of battles and sorrow had changed them in a positive way,I believe.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nóm _
> *I tend to see them as being obviously deprived of what an elf's life should be. Did they wander the lands and befriend beasts and enrich Arda with their beauty and skill? They mostly lived in Arda Unmarred, in the holy light, but doing what?
> 
> I just think they misssed the elf experience, loving the Tree light more than the stars or Arda Marred itself. The Valar were so content in the light of the Trees that they neglected the rest of Arda. Weren't the Vanyar exposed to, and in love with the light before they fully experienced Imbar, that habbitat that was created for them and that all the other elves seem to have made more use of and had more love for? *



Well, since we know little about them, and are not acquainted with their point of view, it's quite impossible to answer. 

From our point of view - assuming that we are people who are drawn to adventure and such, and that we consider sorrow and danger as enrichment to life (though experiencing it is very unpleasant and undesirable, and that's putting it mildly) - they clearly *were* deprived. 

But what if they had no such desires - to see the wide unguarded lands, to befriend other creatures, to live in the Shadow and perish by it, to fight for a cause... - they clearly were *not* deprived. What if they were so _perfectly_ content with living in Aman that to them anything else would just not be good enough?



> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *I think the Vanyar should have followed their brothers and sisters.But they didn't want to risk their peaceful way of living,and all advantages they had living in together with the Valar.I don't like this fact.*



Just like the Teleri _should have_ given their boats away to the Noldor of their free will? There probably were things that the Vanyar could have done to aid their brethren, but they were under no obligation to do any such thing, because it would mean kicking their own happiness to the curb. And when the direst need arose and Eärendil appearead with the last desperate plea of both Elves and Men, they did lend a helping hand, and a big one at that.


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## Starflower (Sep 26, 2003)

I agree with you Ithryn, I think the Vanyar were content with the land of Aman, they had the light of the Trees, they did not crave the twilight of Middle-earth. Look at the Eldar who came to Middle-earth, they spend most of their lives waiting to go back to Aman, which they were eager to leave. I think the Vanyar were better off in terms of quality of life



Starflower


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Starflower _
> *I think the Vanyar were better off in terms of quality of life
> 
> Starflower *



Quality of life?.The Eldar who went to ME had the chance to enrich themselves in every aspect of the word.I mean the things they saw,the sorrow the had to feel,the difficlties they had to face,the life in ME taught them things that the Vanyar couldn't learn.
Yeah,the Vanyar's life was calmer,more peaceful and happy,but what did they learned?Did they leraned the things which the elves from ME learned?Did they improved themselves as much as those who faced the difficulties and felt the sorrow in ME?
You know,the things which don't kill you make you stronger,something like that happened to the Elves in ME,I think.
So the Elves in ME probably didn't have the same quality,in terms of peace and happiness,but I believe they achieved more than their brothers and sisters who stayed in Aman.


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