# The Last Mortal Contest



## Flammifer (Oct 12, 2003)

I know very little about the Battle of Gil-Galad and Elendil against Sauron. All I know is that the Elf and the Man both died, and Narsil was broken, and Isildur cut the Ring from Sauron's finger with the hilt-shard.

But I heard somewhere that Sauron's body was also pretty much dead, and that Isildur only managed to cut the Ring from his finger because Sauron was in a severely weakened state. Is this true? And is there more? This really interests me, so could anyone who knows more on this subject please tell me about it? Thanks!


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## Manveru (Oct 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Flammifer:_
> *But I heard somewhere that Sauron's body was also pretty much dead, and that Isildur only managed to cut the Ring from his finger because Sauron was in a severely weakened state. Is this true?*


From _The Letters..._:


> _211 To Rhona Beare:_
> 
> Sauron was, of course, 'confounded' by the disaster [the Drowning of Númenor], and diminished (having expended enormous energy in the corruption of Númenor). He needed time for his own bodily rehabilitation, and for gaining control over his former subjects. He was attacked by Gil-galad and Elendil before his new domination was fully established.


Sauron wasn't no longer so strong as "in his teens". And he was also exhausted from fighting Gil-Galad and Elendil (after all... they were mighty warriors, weren't they?). That gave Isildur the chance to 'pick up' the One Ring... in other case...


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## Flammifer (Oct 13, 2003)

OK, thanks so much Manveru! 

That's very interesting!


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## Manveru (Oct 13, 2003)

You're welcome...

But let's wait what others (read: more experienced) will say. I'm also interested in that "event". And there are still some questions left unanswered...

So...


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## Flammifer (Oct 13, 2003)

Yep, good idea........

I think it was Mithlond who seemed to know a bit about it.....


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## Inderjit S (Oct 15, 2003)

Manveru's quote from Letter #211 is a reference to Gil-Galad's and Elendil's *armies* attacking Sauron, not them themselves. In Letter #200, we get a more explicity reference to Gil-Galad and Elendil 'slaying' Sauron. 



> After the battle with GilGalad and Elendil Sauron took a long while to build up


 _Letter #200; Letters of Tolkien_ 



> I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-Galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was over-thrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father's sword


 _Council of Elrond; FoTR_ 

Gil-Galad is said to have been slain by the heat of Sauron's body. If you want more info on Sauron's regeneration or Sauron himself see Letters #200, #211 and 'Myths Transformed' (HoME 10)


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## Flammifer (Oct 16, 2003)

Thanks Inder! 

Yes, I would see these quotes, but I don't have the texts!


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## Elfarmari (Oct 16, 2003)

(thank you to Maedhros for e-mailing me the file of Tolkien's Letters)


> 200 From a letter to Major R. Bowen 25 June 1957
> I note your remarks about Sauron. He was always de-bodied when vanquished. The theory, if one can dignify the modes of the story with such a term, is that he was a spirit, a minor one but still an 'angelic' spirit. According to the mythology of these things that means that, though of course a creature, he belonged to the race of intelligent beings that were made before the physical world, and were permitted to assist in their measure in the making of it. Those who became most involved in this work of An, as it was in the first instance, became so engrossed with it, that when the Creator made it real (that is, gave it the secondary reality, subordinate to his own, which we call primary reality, and so in that hierarchy on the same plane with themselves) they desired to enter into it, from the beginning of its 'realization'.
> They were allowed to do so, and the great among them became the equivalent of the 'gods' of traditional mythologies; but a condition was that they would remain 'in it' until the Story was finished. They were thus in the world, but not of a kind whose essential nature is to be physically incarnate. They were self-incarnated, if they wished; but their incarnate forms were more analogous to our clothes than to our bodies, except that they were more than are clothes the expression of their desires, moods, wills and functions. Knowledge of the Story as it was when composed, before realization, gave them their measure of fore-knowledge; the amount varied very much, from the fairly complete knowledge of the mind of the Creator in this matter possessed by Manwë, the 'Elder King', to that of lesser spirits who might have been interested only in some subsidiary matter (such as trees or birds). Some had attached themselves to such major artists and knew things chiefly indirectly through their knowledge of the minds of these masters. Sauron had been attached to the greatest, Melkor, who ultimately became the inevitable Rebel and self-worshipper of mythologies that begin with a transcendent unique Creator. Olórin (Vol II p. 279) had been attached to Manwë.1
> The Creator did not hold himself aloof. He introduced new themes into the original design, which might therefore be unforeseen by many of the spirits in realization; there were also unforeseeable events (that is happenings which not even a complete knowledge of the past could predict).
> ...


Letter #214 explains hobbit present-giving practices, and how titles, lands, etc were inhereted. . .


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## Flammifer (Oct 17, 2003)

I see. Thanks so much, Elfarmari!


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## Eledhwen (Oct 17, 2003)

On access to the books...

I have the basic Tolkien books, up to BoLT1, but have neither the cash nor the space for the rest of the History of Middle Earth series, so I borrow them from the public library. If they haven't got it on the shelf, I order it and they get it in. That costs me 50p. It's a good substitute until I can get the series (and somewhere to put it), and I recommend it to anyone who just wants to see if they can understand Tolkien to that level without forking out, which can come later if the answer's 'yes'.


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## Flammifer (Oct 18, 2003)

Excellent idea. I did mean to go and look at the library to find HoME, I'm sure they'll be there.


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## jimmyboy (Nov 10, 2003)

> Isildur only managed to cut the Ring from his finger because Sauron was in a severely weakened state. Is this true?


No. As Tolkien himself explained in the above quotes, Sauron's body was assaulted by Isildur and the broken sword. When he cut the finger off he essentially "cut out" Sauron's heart, since much of his inherent power was invested in that ring. This is why Sauron was effectively destroyed, at least physically, and why it took three thousand years for him to recover enough to start another war.

As for him being in a weakened state during that war with Elendil and Gil-Galad, no. He was at the height of his domination and power, because he had his ring, and the only way he could have been stopped was to take that ring from him. The movie version of these events put it very well: even though the greatest armies in Middle-earth were gathered against him, "the power of the Ring could not be undone." So again, no, Sauron was not in a weakened state when Isildur defeated him.


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## Elfarmari (Nov 11, 2003)

jimmyboy, Isildur only cut off Sauron's finger and ring after Sauron had been cast down by Gil-galad and Elendil. While taking the ring temporarily destroyed Sauron, he was definitely in a severely weakened state.

here's part of letter 211:


> 211 To Rhona Beare
> Question 2. This question, & its implications, are answered in the 'Downfall of Numenor', which is not yet published, but which I cannot set out now. You cannot press the One Ring too hard, for it is of course a mythical feature, even though the world of the tales is conceived in more or less historical terms. The Ring of Sauron is only one of the various mythical treatments of the placing of one's life, or power, in some external object, which is thus exposed to capture or destruction with disastrous results to oneself. If I were to 'philosophize' this myth, or at least the Ring of Sauron, I should say it was a mythical way of representing the truth that potency (or perhaps rather potentiality) if it is to be exercised, and produce results, has to be externalized and so as it were passes, to a greater or less degree, out of one's direct control. A man who wishes to exert 'power' must have subjects, who are not himself. But he then depends on them.
> Ar-Pharazôn, as is told in the 'Downfall' or Akallabêth, conquered a terrified Sauron's subjects, not Sauron. Sauron's personal 'surrender' was voluntary and cunning : he got free transport to Numenor! He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans. (I do not think Ar-Pharazôn knew anything about the One Ring. The Elves kept the matter of the Rings very secret, as long as they could. In any case Ar-Pharazôn was not in communication with them. In the Tale of Years III p. 364 you will find hints of the trouble: 'the Shadow falls on Numenor'. After Tar-Atanamir (an Elvish name) the next name is Ar-Adunakhôr a Númenórean name. See p. 315.2 The change of names went with a complete rejection of the Elf-friendship, and of the 'theological' teaching the Númenóreans had received from them.)
> Sauron was first defeated by a 'miracle': a direct action of God the Creator, changing the fashion of the world, when appealed to by Manwë: see III p. 317. Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended. That Sauron was not himself destroyed in the anger of the One is not my fault: the problem of evil, and its apparent toleration, is a permanent one for all who concern themselves with our world. The indestructibility of spirits with free wills, even by the Creator of them, is also an inevitable feature, if one either believes in their existence, or feigns it in a story.
> Sauron was, of course, 'confounded' by the disaster, and diminished (having expended enormous energy in the corruption of Númenor). He needed time for his own bodily rehabilitation, and for gaining control over his former subjects. He was attacked by Gil-galad and Elendil before his new domination was fully established.



editted to fix typo


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## jimmyboy (Nov 12, 2003)

> jimmyboy, Isildur only cut off Sauron's finger and ring after Sauron had been cast down by Gil-galad and Elendil.


I don't believe that's true. Looking back in the Sil, it isn't very clear exactly how he was defeated, but it does say that he killed both Gil-Galad and Elendil. Then it says that he too was "thrown down", and that Isildur cut the ring off. Kinda vague, I know, but I'm inclined to believe that Sauron was thrown down *when he lost the ring* and not before.


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## Inderjit S (Nov 12, 2003)

I think the evidence points more explicitly to Sauron being "thrown down" (A archaic term for killing, like Gandalf 'threw down' the Balrog) by Elendil and Gil-Galad and the Ring being cut of his finger by Isildur who observed the _Last Mortal Contest_ together with Elrond and Círdan. (No others were there, as is explained in the _Council of Elrond_ and the _Disaster of the Gladden Fields; U.T)_. (Faramir thinks that Isildur took something from Sauron's hand.) Though of course it is up to you to interpret the quotes as you will. 

Note my quotes from the Letter;


> After the battle with GilGalad and Elendil Sauron took a long while to build up



Elfamari, I think the passage in Letter #211 about him being attacked by Gil-Galad and Elendil is a reference to their armies, rather then them themselves.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 27, 2005)

*bump*

Any more thoughts on this?


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## baragund (Jul 27, 2005)

After reading the accounts above, it seems to me there is plenty of room for the imagination in how, exactly, the mortal combat between Gil-galad, Elendil and Sauron took place.

I like to think there there was some kind of hand-to-hand combat between the three, that Sauron slew the other two but he was weakened enough for Isildur to finish him off (sort of). But there is no reason why Sauron would not have been assaulted by scores, or even battalions, of Western soldiers first. If I were a commander in that battle, I would every projectile, arrow, spear, dart, rock and the kitchen sink at Sauron before sending anyone to do hand-to-hand combat.


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## Telëlambe (Aug 4, 2005)

Well i was alwase under the impression (regardless of what the films show!) that during the battle souron himself came forth, and the leaders of both the armies of men and elves -both being in battle at the time) saw their enemy and an opportunity to end the war. Both being courageous leaders took it apon themselves to do combat with the dark lord. They fough for a long time with all three becoming weaker and tyred (yes even sauron as his body was subject to the pains of the world simmilarly to the istari) and Gil Gilad being slain, but Elendill faught on and managed to kill sauron's body. however it fell on him and burned him alive and Elendill fell on his sword and broke it under the weight of them both. with the three now lifeless Isildur took the hilt of narsel and cut the ring off saurons hand. 

What do you all think?


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## Thorondor_ (Aug 4, 2005)

Apparently, it wasn't Elendil (alone) who slew Sauron:
Silmarilion version (of the rings of power and the third age):


> But at the last the siege was so strait that Sauron himself came forth; and he wrestled with Gil-galad and Elendil, and they both were slain, and the sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But Sauron also was thrown down, and with the hilt-shard of Narsil Isildur cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron and took it for his own


Lotr version (the shadow of the past):


> It was Gil-galad, Elven-king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron, though they themselves perished in the deed; and Isildur Elendil's son cut the Ring from Sauron's hand and took it for his own


Letter 131 to Milton Waldman:


> The Second Age ends with the Last Alliance (of Elves and Men), and the great siege of Mordor. It ends with the overthrow of Sauron and destruction of the second visible incarnation of evil. But at a cost, and with one disastrous mistake. Gilgalad and Elendil are slain in the act of slaying Sauron.


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## baragund (Aug 4, 2005)

Telelambe's description works just fine as well.

The question is how, exactly, was Sauron "thrown down" and who did the throwing. The quotes that Thorondor gave gives me a picture of Sauron being "mortally wounded" by both Gil-galad and Elendil. In his "death throes" he must have delivered the fatal blows to at least one of them but the passage indicates that Gil-galad was killed first. Still, there is enough flexibility in the passages to come up with several plausible scenarios.


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## Greenwood (Aug 4, 2005)

It is another of the many instances of Tolkien's great talent as a writer. He gives his readers the essential information (Gil-galad and Elendil dead, Sauron defeated and Isildur taking Sauron's Ring) while leaving the exact details to the readers' imagination. Those precise details really are irrelevant to the story and each reader can see it the way they want without being "wrong".


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## Inderjit S (Aug 4, 2005)

I still go with my original position-that Elendil and Gil-Galad fought Sauron and overthrew him but he killed them both with the "heat of his body"-Cirdan, Elrond and Isildur were situated close by, and Isildur rushed forward, perhaps in grief for his father, and chopped the ring off a 'dead' or nearly dead Sauron. (He was incarnate after all.) Gil-Galad was indeed "killed first", "by the heat of Sauron's body", or so Isildur recounts it, Elendil himself was slain in a similair fashion, though I guess they were able to kill Sauron by injuring him many times in battle, till they were both killed-as was Sauron, or he was at least weakened.


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## Greenwood (Aug 4, 2005)

Inderjit S said:


> I still go with my original position-that Elendil and Gil-Galad fought Sauron and overthrew him but he killed them both with the "heat of his body"-Cirdan, Elrond and Isildur were situated close by, and Isildur rushed forward, perhaps in grief for his father, and chopped the ring off a 'dead' or nearly dead Sauron. (He was incarnate after all.) Gil-Galad was indeed "killed first", "by the heat of Sauron's body", or so Isildur recounts it, Elendil himself was slain in a similair fashion, though I guess they were able to kill Sauron by injuring him many times in battle, till they were both killed-as was Sauron, or he was at least weakened.


That is certainly a plausible scenario.


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## Telëlambe (Aug 5, 2005)

Yeah it sounds good but we have come to the hair-splitting stage here, 
the real question is why Elrond, Cirdan and Isildur Did'nt join in...


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## Inderjit S (Aug 5, 2005)

Most problably because Sauron challenged Elendil and Gil-Galad to combat, after he saw his forces being driven back or routed. (It is probable that he was able to break the siege and drive the alliance back for a while, or perhaps they kept a small besieging force under some captain (Anarion may have been the captain of old, until he was slain by a missile from Barad-dur) who were driven back by Sauron's armies until he came to the main host somewhere near or between Mount Doom and Barad-dur and was being driven back, until Elendil and Gil-Galad, who I guess would be commanding the centre came to his banner and were "challenged" so to speak, but then again how do we manage to make this fit in with the fact that the Last Mortal Contest took place on the slopes of Mount Doom? I guess there are two options-that the Last Alliance forces were driving back Sauron's main forces, but he was able to excriate himself from the battle with his vanguard and makes his way to Mount Doom, where I guess the vanguards of Elendil and Gil-Galad went after him, and Elendil and Gil-Galad, together with the other three were able to come to Sauron himself-and the two High-Kings were challenged to combat, perhaps seeing his army being driven back Sauron seeked to dent the moral of the Alliance forces by slaying their leaders. Or perhaps the Alliance was situated elsewhere, they met the forces of Sauron, and Sauron was again able to excriate himself and the same scenario came to be-that the main hosts battled somwhere close to Mount Doom and Barad-dur but the vanguards of the High-Kings went off to challenge Sauron's vanguard. Perhaps Isildur left Elendur in charge of his men, since Elendur was always at his side, apart from the fight at hand. (And Gil-Galad and Elendil left able deputies too.)


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