# The Languages?



## hpfan55 (Aug 8, 2002)

I don't want to sound like an idiot, but the languages in the book are they real I mean the writing and the speaking parts do they work?


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## Ponte (Aug 8, 2002)

If you mean Quenya and Sindarin so yes they are languages that Tolkien created and they can be speaked. I think there are 300 quenya words
but I do not know how many words there are in Sindarin.


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## hpfan55 (Aug 8, 2002)

Quenya and Sindarin?


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## Beorn (Aug 8, 2002)

Yes, here's an excerpt on languages:



> Languages, however, that were related to the Westron presented a special problem. I turned them into forms of speech related to English. Since the Rohirrim are represented as recent comers out of the North, and users of an archaic Mannish language relatively untouched by the influence of Eldarin, I have turned their names into forms like (but not identical with) Old English. The language of Dale and the Long Lake would, if it appeared, be represented as more or less Scandinavian in character; but it is only represented by a few names, especially those of the Dwarves that came from that region. These are all Old Norse Dwarf-names.
> (Dwarves are represented as keeping their own native tongue more or less secret, and using for all 'outer' purposes the language of the people they dwelt near; they never reveal their own 'true' personal names in their own tongue.)
> The Westron or C.S. is supposed to be derived from the Mannish Adunaic language of the Númenóreans, spreading from the Númenórean Kingdoms in the days of the Kings, and especially from Gondor, where it remains spoken in nobler and rather more antique style (a style also usually adopted by the Elves when they use this language). But all the names in Gondor, except for a few of supposedly prehistoric origin, are of Elvish form, since the Númenórean nobility still used an Elvish language, or could. This was because they had been allies of the Elves in the First Age, and had for that reason been granted the Atlantis isle of Númenor.
> Two of the Elvish tongues appear in this book. They have some sort of existence, since I have composed them in some completeness, as well as their history and account of their relationship. They are intended (a) to be definitely of a European kind in style and structure (not in detail); and (b) to be specially pleasant. The former is not difficult to achieve; but the latter is more difficult, since individuals' personal predilections, especially in the phonetic structure of languages, varies widely, even when modified by the imposed languages (including their so-called 'native' tongue).
> ...


Source: The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 144


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## Ponte (Aug 8, 2002)

Are not Quenya elv-latin and sindarin the normal elvish?


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## Lantarion (Aug 9, 2002)

You didn't know about Quenya and Sindarin?? Have you read the Appendices in the LotR? ALthough they give VERY little information on the actual languages, they are quite informative otherwise. But DO NOT try to learn the Tengwar from it, it won't work.  (That is a writing system that Tolkien created, and YES it does work )
Just about everything Tolkien created 'worked'. He was so incredibly thorough in creating Arda... OK, read the Silmarillion. There are many phrases in Quenya there, like "_Túrin Turambar, turun ambartanen"_ ("Túrin Master of Doom, by Doom mastered"). Túrin is my favorite character from the Sil..
Anyway, ask Cian if you want to know more (but be ready for a torrent of information), he knows just about everything about the Eldarin languages: both of them!


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## Aule The Smith (Aug 12, 2002)

*Languages*

Greetings friends,
The elven languages are based roughly on an old form of Welsh but only in structure with a few similar words i.e. mal means God in both but other than that they are a stroke of genius by on of the most brilliant and dedicated(14 years on LOTR) author ever. If you want to find more on this subject read Tolkiens Ring by David Day (I Did).


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## Lantarion (Aug 13, 2002)

Ahem, must to defend my fatherland from ruthless invaders here, Quenya was based on the Finnish language, while Sindarin was based on Welsh, thank you very much! 
Just to give you an exmple, the word _maica_ in Quenya means 'sword'. The Finnish equivalent for 'sword' is _miekka_. Yeah, think about THAT!


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## Muffinly (Aug 14, 2002)

Quenya was also based partially on Latin.
And Sindarin was based on Greek too.


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## tasar (Aug 14, 2002)

Would you people stop babbling about this based-on-what-languages. You can find endless similarities with so many languages that it kind of doesn't matter. Yes, there are some languages that are considered "official" examples for Tolkien. But that simply makes me feel bad, because I think that my language is also very beautiful and  ... 
and much more beautiful then elvish could ever be  
and if someone doesn't stop me right now then I'm gonna burst into tears


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## Cian (Aug 14, 2002)

As said, Sindarin was inspired by Welsh, and Tolkien explained that Quenya might be said to be composed on a Latin basis with two (main) ingredients that gave him "phonaesthetic pleasure": Finnish and Greek.

While very many folk seem to agree with the Prof's language 'tastes', this doesn't mean of course that other real world languages cannot be 'beautiful' as well


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