# Valar's love of Quendi - possessive?



## Confusticated (Mar 6, 2004)

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## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 6, 2004)

> Personally I vote 3. I think the Valar's love of the Quendi was for the most part greedy and possessive. They loved the beauty of the Quendi and brought them to Valinor from the dangers of Middle-earth.



Interesting topic  If you were talking of Vala - Melkor, I would agree with greedy and possessive - he was more to a 5, but for the majority of the Valar, no... perhaps a 2. They - per the Sil - fell in love with the beauty of the speakers, but I don't think that the Valar were much more than just 'care takers, with guidence provided.' With power, yes... 




> If the Valar loved the Quendi why didn't most of them go often to Middle-earth, and visit the Avari who they love? Ulmo alone might have sent messages to them in the waters.



That is a question that I have always asked myself. After Arda Marred, I think it hurt them to see the damage of their creation. Selective denial, perhaps. 




> Are the Valar's actions fitting of people who truly love the Quendi, or more of people who want to be adored by the beautiful little Children of Iluvatar?



They looked at them as strange, free and different; something to study to see more of [and into] the mind of Iluvatar. I don't see 14 of them being driven to be worshipped. Melkor, yes. When you rule, oversee or command, it is natural to want to teach and to be liked... to want more than that is out of line with the position.




> Did they love the Quendi as a people and one for one as unique individuals with potential to talents to enrich Arda-Marred... or did they love being loved and needed?



I think until the time of the Silmarils... they loved each for each. With Melkor poisoning the mind of the Noldor with whispers, the Valar possibly started to lose patience and the Noldor removed themselves from that.




> Why exactly were some brought from the dangers of Middle-earth and the shadow that their ignorance there caused in their minds?



Per the Sil, it was a summons to *all* Quendi.


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## Jan (Mar 7, 2004)

My goodness, what an interesting question!

Melkor was just possessive, no love there at all, except maybe for himself.

But the other Valar...yes, I think they loved the Quendi, because they were intelligent free beings other than themselves. Those Elves were more than just a pretty face! But a problem arose because, since the Valar weren't perfect beings, they erred in trying to get the Elves to return to the Blessed Realm for their (the Elves) own protection, and did not really respect the freedom of the Elves. On the other hand, they really just invited them, and didn't force them to move.

So, no, apart from Melkor, I don't think the Valar were possessive of the Quendi. But I'm going to keep this question in mind as I re-read the Silmarillion.

What would've happened if the Valar hadn't wanted the Quendi to move? We wouldn't have had the whole thing with Feanor on the one side, but then again, the Elves could've all been done in by Melkor in Middle Earth. What an incredible story!


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## Confusticated (Mar 8, 2004)

Thanks for your input!

Good ideas.



Minuel Lasgalas said:


> Per the Sil, it was a summons to all Quendi.


Yes, but I was wondering what people thought of the reasons of the Valar for wanting to bring the elves and for bringing some of them.
In _Laws and Customs_ in HoME 10, it is said that the elves in Middle-earth first believed that upon dying they went into a realm of night, and this was a shadow in their minds. It it said that this was a reason the Valar wanted to bring the elves to Aman... where they eventually learned what happens to their spirits when they die, and about being returned to life after a time of waiting. And learned of a lot of other things besides... Eru, the Ainulindale.

Had this really been a motive of the valar... one wonders why they did not go ahead and teach those Avari who refused to go to Aman.




Jan said:


> What would've happened if the Valar hadn't wanted the Quendi to move? We wouldn't have had the whole thing with Feanor on the one side, but then again, the Elves could've all been done in by Melkor in Middle Earth. What an incredible story!


I think one question here is: Would Melkor have been allowed to return to Middle-earth after doing his time in Mandos, or have been able to return against the will of the Valar?

I do think he could have found a way. But even while in Mandos Sauron might have come among the elves to befriend them, and turn them against the Valar. That there is no real indication he did do this with the Avari, could be explained if Sauron deemd they were of little use.... the boss would bother with more useful elves back in Aman.

But there's another question. Had the Valar thought it best (as Ulmo did) that the Quendi remain in Middle-earth, would more of them have gone there often to visit, teach and instruct the elves? 

There have been a couple threads started asking: Why didn't Melkor destory the elves at Cuivienen? And related questions. What melkor would have done had the elves remaned in Middle-earth and he had returned there, may depend on your answer to that question. Personally... I think he would have used them against the Valar, but the fact that he didn't try to befriend them at Cuivienen makes one wonder when he was going to get around to it, if so!


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