# Smeagol did Deagol a favor



## Elu Thingol (Jun 22, 2002)

I think Smeagol did Deagol a big favor by saving him from torment for hundreds and hundreds of years! Everybody thinks it was so terrible that Smeagol slew Deagol but if Deagol had been allowed to keep the ring he would have had the same fate as of Gollum. Anyway tell me what you think.


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## Bilbo Baggins57 (Jun 22, 2002)

Hmm...I'm not sure about that. Doing him a favor by killing him? Somehow I don't think Smeagol was exactly thinking about Deagol's best interest when he did that. It was more out of his greed & desire 2 have the ring. But still, how do we know that Deagol would have had the same fate as gollum did if he'd kept the ring? He wasn't the same person as Smegol, & may not have had as much desire 4 power.


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## YayGollum (Jun 22, 2002)

Blah, blah, blah. Nice idea, Elu person. I like to think that Gollum never killed Deagol, that he just stunned him and thought he killed him. oh well. Just a crazy theory.


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## Bilbo Baggins57 (Jun 22, 2002)

Stunned him? Permanently?


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## YayGollum (Jun 22, 2002)

Argh! Did you not know that Gollum told Gandalf the story in the first place? He was probably just super guilty about it and his guilt teamed up with his imagination and went crazy. sorry about that. Spoot. Am leaving.


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## Galdor (Jun 22, 2002)

I don't think that Déagol would think that Sméagol did him a favor by killing him. (duh) But I think it was for the best. If Sméagol had not murdered Déagol Imagine how different the history of middle earth would have been changed. So Sméagol murdering Déagol turned out to prove good in the end for it was only though Sméagol that the Ring was finally destroyed.


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## Anarchist (Jun 23, 2002)

It seems that Gollum keeps doing good things with bad intentions. Deagol didn't know what torments Smeagol saved him from when he took his last breath. I think Gollum would think killing him twice if he had the chance to go back in time. Elu and YayGollum, remember that it's the intentions of an action that count in judging a character, not the consequences. If it was about consequences, then Gollum was the kindest creature of all and the real heroe (no YayGollum, he wasn't ).


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## YayGollum (Jun 23, 2002)

Yay Galdor! Boo Anarchist! Stop following me around! oh well. Yay for Gollum doing good things with bad intentions! He saved the day! Ummm...what were we talking about? Why can't people like Gollum for what he did for Middle Earth? Who cares what the intentions were? Yay for the consequences!


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## Pippin/Frodo (Jun 23, 2002)

I agree with Yay. Who knows? Maybe Deagol is still out there working for some evil lady/whitch cause she keeps him alive and maybe he'll end up saving the day and maybe he's on a big boat right now and almost killed Elanor many times and maybe..................


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## YayGollum (Jun 23, 2002)

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Pippin/Frodo! Can't wait!


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## HLGStrider (Jun 23, 2002)

Well, I don't think it was a favor because we don't know what might've happened. Perhaps Deagol would've lost the ring on his way home. Perhaps he would've been killed by somebody else. Who knows what might've happened. Might as well say it would've been better for Turin to die in the cradle... which maybe it might've but we don't know what would've happened if he had. Perhaps it would've triggered a chain reaction that would cause the whole world to explode!!!

BOOM!!!

Do we judge crimes by the motive or by the result or by something else all together??

It's better not to mess with life, I suppose...


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## YayGollum (Jun 23, 2002)

Well, I'm glad Turin Elf-Bane (as I like to call him) was born. He helped out with the elf population! Wait, will that make people mad? oh well. I like to judge crimes by the result, just because it helps out with Gollum.


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## HLGStrider (Jun 23, 2002)

A better question, perhaps, is if situations were reversed, would Deagol have done to Smeagol what Smeagol did to Deagol...

Boy, is that a tongue twister...

I'd say we have no way of knowing.


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## YayGollum (Jun 23, 2002)

Right. I wish Tolkien went into more depth with those two. Or just the Stoor hobbitses in general. Or even Dwarves! Ack! Or the Lossoth! Or the Woses! oh well.


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## My_Precious (Jun 23, 2002)

Ok, here's my theory... Frodo could not control his hand and almost put the ring on when he was approaching the Mordor because the ring was trying to show itself, right?
So, it could be possible that the one ring made Gollum kill Deagol. It had some kind of hypnotic powers over them... So, that means that he wasn't guilty. Right?


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## YayGollum (Jun 23, 2002)

Right. Completely correct. There's no such thing as a stupid Gollum Fan!


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## Pippin/Frodo (Jun 24, 2002)

YOU GUYS! How do we know that deagol is really dead. Smeagol maybe thought he killed him but just deathly injure him. Let's look at it in a different point of veiw. Say deagol isn't dead but scared for life. Say he is working for an evil bad lady and he doesn't even really like her. Would you call that a favor. He has to stay there cause she keeps her alive and he doesn't really want to be there.


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## YayGollum (Jun 24, 2002)

Okay, okay, okay! I already said that I thought that Deagol wasn't dead. I said that Gollum just knocked him out or something and thought he killed him.


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## Pippin/Frodo (Jun 24, 2002)

Oh well, of course you did but I was talking about every one else. But thanks anyway.


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## Galdor (Jun 24, 2002)

I agree with Antichist. Gollum was still a very evil creature, dispite what the turnout of his actions where it doesn't change that Gollum meant to do evil. It was not his falt that his actions turned out good in the end and I doubt he would has been happy at the turnout of things.


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## My_Precious (Jun 24, 2002)

His life wasn't all sugar and honey...


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## Tyaronumen (Jun 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by YayGollum _
> *Well, I'm glad Turin Elf-Bane (as I like to call him) was born. He helped out with the elf population! Wait, will that make people mad? oh well. I like to judge crimes by the result, just because it helps out with Gollum.  *



I wouldn't use Turin Turambar as a 'pro-Gollum' argument, my friend.  He was 'tragic' and hardly a 'hero', even though he was a mighty warrior.  (and I'm talking about Turin here... the less said about "Stinker" the better!  )


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## Anarchist (Jun 25, 2002)

My_Precious, yes his life wasn't all sugar and honey, but he had chosen his path when he killed Deagol. There is a time in everyone's life when the choice he/she makes will judge the rest of his/her life. Gollum made his choice and chose the dark side, full of beytrayal and backstabbing, of lust and darkness. Whatever he has been through were the consquenses of his action to kill Deagol and take the ring. And to add more to that, he continued doing evilry (remember how he was thrown out of his village for what he was doing when he wore the ring). His torments where what he disurved. No YayGollum, I am not following you around. I am not a member of any antiGollum organization hired to take you, the leader of the opposite organization out. (hmmm, now I think of it...)


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## YayGollum (Jun 26, 2002)

Argh! What's wrong with you people? The Ring made him do bad stuff! Ever heard of the movie Hollow Man? The dude was just a normal nice dude and when he got to be invisible, he did all kinds of bad stuffs. So, the power to become invisible and the natural power of the Ring made Gollum do stuffs that people might frown upon. Got it? Sheesh! Anyways, about Turin, I was just saying something to a point somebody else made. so sorry.


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## Tyaronumen (Jun 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by YayGollum _
> *Argh! What's wrong with you people? The Ring made him do bad stuff! Ever heard of the movie Hollow Man? The dude was just a normal nice dude and when he got to be invisible, he did all kinds of bad stuffs. So, the power to become invisible and the natural power of the Ring made Gollum do stuffs that people might frown upon. Got it? Sheesh! Anyways, about Turin, I was just saying something to a point somebody else made. so sorry. *



All I was saying was that saying "Gollum is sort of like Turin" doesn't make Gollum look any better since Turin is the kind of person I'd like never to meet. 

I'm against blaming "The Ring" for his actions. Frodo was able to refrain from strangling anyone when he first beheld the Ring, and indeed bore it for a really loooooong time before it finally started to get to him.

Gollum, on the other hand? A glint of gold and the little buggers hands are on someone's neck, strangling the life from them.


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## YayGollum (Jun 26, 2002)

Ack! Gollum was most probably super young (stupid) when Sauron superly exerted his will on poor Smeagol. Sauron wasn't exerting his will on anyone else. All the times anyone else is tempted, that's just the natural power of the Ring. In Gollum's case it was the Ring and Sauron.


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## Gil-Galad (Jun 27, 2002)

I agree with you.Everybody who has the ring is cursed to be alone all his life.Everyone who ever keepsthe ring for a moment will desire for him till his death.That's really a curse.


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## YayGollum (Jun 27, 2002)

Yay for another Gollum Fan! Or at least someone who understands!


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## Numellote (Jun 27, 2002)

*A stitch in time*

I agree, because you never know, perhaps Deagol would have turned out to be incredibly more evil and warped than Smeagol, and that definitely justifies murder. As a stitch in time saves nine, one evil now, could prevent a future worse one.


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## Elu Thingol (Jun 27, 2002)

If there was a trial Smeagol would be sentenced to death nothing justifies murder.


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## Bilbo Baggins57 (Jun 28, 2002)

All too true, Elu Thingol. Yay how do u know it was Sauron himself who exerted his power on gollum through the ring? I doubt Sauron would want someone with gollum's traits that made him especially attracted to the ring 2 keep it 4 a while. Wouldn't Sauron know that gollum would have a harder time giving it up & would do everything in his power to get it back? Like when he fell into the fire while trying to take the ring from Frodo.


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## YayGollum (Jun 28, 2002)

Sure, I agree with the Elu dude. Good thing this thread isn't about a trial for Gollum, though.  BB27,000, I know it was Sauron himself because noone else could exert their power through the Ring. Who else could it be? Why wouldn't Sauron want someone with those traits? He could be sure that, just like you said, Gollum would have a hard time giving it up and would do everything in his power to get it back. It's not like Sauron would have a hard time killing Gollum. Anybody could have done it anytime, except that most kept feeling pity for him.


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## roguelion (Jun 30, 2002)

*gollum*

In my opinion I think that the ring chose who it would take over, sure its a fact that Deagol found the ring, but Smeagol was chosen by the ring, I think becouse of his greed and desire for power. I think the ring corruptet Smeagol so quickly that he had no choice but to kill Deagol or loose the ring..so like I said I think it was the ring all the time, it took over Smeagols brain and caused him to be suspisious, a power that it still held over him till the end.


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## YayGollum (Jul 3, 2002)

Yeah, I agree that the Ring chose Smeagol over Deagol. But why is it that everyone is saying that Smeagol was greedy and wanted power? Greed = lust for the Ring brought on by the Ring, but where does Smeagol ever want power?


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## Xanaphia (Jul 5, 2002)

Hmmmmmm... death or being currupted by the ring? Tough desicion. Probably death because being corrupted by the ring might couse you tohelp Sauron rule Middle Earth!!! And that I would NOT want to do!


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## YayGollum (Jul 5, 2002)

Yay! But then, Gollum didn't really help out in the end.


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