# Who is the character who has traveled the most and seen different places in Beleriand?



## Turin_Turambar (Feb 18, 2022)

Who do you think is the character who has traveled the most in beleriand and has been to the most different places? I don't think this character could be a gondolin elf. Because gondolin elves were forbidden to leave the city. I think it's character maybe Turin. Because he has been to many places and has been a leader wherever he went.
Doriath
Amon rudh
Nargothrond
Dor-lomin
Brethil.


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## Elthir (Feb 18, 2022)

I don't know . . . but in any case, *Orome* had a *horse.*


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 18, 2022)

I said Other because I figured Ulmo probably has been around with all the waterways, Ossë too then I guess.


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## Elthir (Feb 18, 2022)

Horses drink water. 

Just sayin'


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## Elassar (Jun 15, 2022)

I will go with Turin turambar for this one. Berthil, dor lomin, narthongrond, doriath the list is far more extensive than this


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## Gothmog (Jun 15, 2022)

You cannot rule out Gondolin Elves as many of them had chance to travel before the founding of Gondolin.

I would go for Turin.


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## d4rk3lf (Jun 28, 2022)

Eagles of Manwe?  

On a serious note, maybe Glorfindel? 
He was around in all 3 ages (same as Galadriel), but I guess he traveled more then Galadriel (well, I know that upcoming Amazon LOTR series will disagree with me, with warrior Galadriel ). 
My first thought was also Turin Turambar, but from what I recall, his travel was focused on Beleriand, and he didn't venture to Eriador, let alone across misty mountains, and more east... 

Wait! 
What about Sauron? 
He was all over the place all the time.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 29, 2022)

Turin Turambar was my vote, but Eru has seen and been to the most places of everyone, so.....


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## Gothmog (Jun 29, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Turin Turambar was my vote, but Eru has seen and been to the most places of everyone, so.....


While it is true that Eru has seen every place in Arda, both above and below ground. He has only actually been to Cuiviénen to place the first Elves, wherever it was that he placed the first Men and to Aman to halt the invasion of the Numenorians and re-shape the world.


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## d4rk3lf (Jun 29, 2022)

Gothmog said:


> While it is true that Eru has seen every place in Arda, both above and below ground. He has only actually been to Cuiviénen to place the first Elves, wherever it was that he placed the first Men and to Aman to halt the invasion of the Numenorians and re-shape the world.



Ummm.. I don't think that beings like Eru, or Christian God can be viewed like this. 
Since they are perfect, they are basically present at any place in any time... they are perfect... they don't interfere, but they are present... 
If they are not present everywhere, wouldn't that make them less.. perfect? 

Sorry for of topic , didn't want to venture into theological discussion. 
If you think about it.... isn't Valars also shown as being that strongest by being able to be in multiple places at the same time? 
Manwe being the best, since he can watch everything through the eyes of his eagles. 
Ulmo, being the second one, and able to be present everywhere where water is.


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## Gothmog (Jun 29, 2022)

d4rk3lf said:


> Ummm.. I don't think that beings like Eru, or Christian God can be viewed like this.
> Since they are perfect, they are basically present at any place in any time... they are perfect... they don't interfere, but they are present...
> If they are not present everywhere, wouldn't that make them less.. perfect?
> 
> ...


 
Letter 131 To Milton Waldman


> The cycles begin with a cosmogonical myth: the Music of the Ainur. God and the Valar (or powers: Englished as gods) are revealed. These latter are as we should say angelic powers, whose function is to exercise delegated authority in their spheres (of rule and government, not creation, making or re-making). They are 'divine', that is, were originally 'outside' and existed 'before' the making of the world. Their power and wisdom is derived from their Knowledge of the cosmogonical drama, which they perceived first as a drama (that is as in a fashion we perceive a story composed by some-one else), and later as a 'reality'. On the side of mere narrative device, this is, of course, meant to provide beings of the same order of beauty, power, and majesty as the 'gods' of higher mythology, which can yet be accepted – well, shall we say baldly, by a mind that believes in the Blessed Trinity.


Eru is not the Christian God so there is no point in bringing that as proof of anything within the stories. While you can indeed show that each of the Valar have in all probability been to every point in Arda at some time during the creation of Arda, Eru remained outside of the creation watching only except for the placing of the Eruhini and the re-shaping of the world.


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## d4rk3lf (Jun 29, 2022)

Gothmog said:


> Letter 131 To Milton Waldman


I am really not trying to contradict you, and perhaps, my poor English language skills (in both writing and understanding) are responsible, but I really fail to understand what that quote is having in common to my post. 

Btw, when I said Christian God, didn't meant it strictly. I've meant, any monotheistic religion God (Allah, muslim God would be also a good example). 
My ideas was: that Tolkien worl is of monotheistic nature, therefore, God is present everywhere.


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## Gothmog (Jun 29, 2022)

d4rk3lf said:


> I am really not trying to contradict you, and perhaps, my poor English language skills (in both writing and understanding) are responsible, but I really fail to understand what that quote is having in common to my post.
> 
> Btw, when I said Christian God, didn't meant it strictly. I've meant, any monotheistic religion God (Allah, muslim God would be also a good example).
> My ideas was: that Tolkien worl is of monotheistic nature, therefore, God is present everywhere.


The quote shows that Eru in Tolkien's work is not the same as the God of Abraham and therefore any use of Real-world examples of such God cannot be used to support a view on what Eru can or would do.

I have to edit this to add something I was searching for and only now found:
Letter 181 To Michael Straight [drafts]


> There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers. These take the place of the 'gods', but are created spirits, or those of the primary creation who by their own will have entered into the world. But the One retains all ultimate authority, and (or so it seems as viewed in serial time) reserves the right to intrude the finger of God into the story:


No. Eru was not present anywhere in Arda. It was the Valar and Maia that were present in Arda and did all the work. Eru, along with the many Ainur who remained in the Timeless Halls, were spectators watching the unfolding of the Music made manifest.


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