# Who wrote The Silmarillion?



## Cloudhauler (Jun 19, 2018)

(no I don’t mean Tolkien)

Hi everyone!
New to the forum, but I’ve been obsessed with Tolkien since childhood.

Anyway, here’s a question that’s been bugging me for a while now. Obviously, within Tolkien’s universe, Bilbo wrote The Hobbit and Frodo wrote The Lord of the Rings (with some add-ons from Sam) but who wrote the Silmarillion? I’ve tried to find an answer to this and have been unsuccessful. 

...or perhaps Tolkien didn’t intend that a character wrote The Silmarillion...


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 19, 2018)

I don't know if he ever really confirmed it but I always assumed it was writing/records by the Eldar that was handed down. Maybe Elrond had it in the libraries of Rivendell and gave it to Bilbo or to Aragorn to keep in the records of Gondor after he left Middle Earth.


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## Elthir (Jun 19, 2018)

Hi! Cool name by the way!

Note 17 to (a late work)_ The Shibboleth of Feanor_ reads in part: "As is seen in the Silmarillion. This is not an Eldarin title or work. It is a compilation, probably made in Númenor (...) All however are "Mannish" works."

Also, here's an interesting change to Quenta Silmarillion (the LQ2 text) with respect to the tale of Beren and Luthien: "Of their lives was made the Lay of Leithian, Release from Bondage, which is the longest save one of the songs of [the Noldor >] Númenor concerning the world of old;..."

In 1962 JRRT published, concerning a poem: "No. 14 also depends on the lore of Rivendell, Elvish and Numenorean, concerning the Heroic days at the end of the First Age; it seems to contain echoes of the Numenorean tale of Turin and Mim the Dwarf. "
The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, Preface

Answers based on an earlier scenario will no doubt be different -- but without going into that scenario here, I believe it was superseded in any case.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 19, 2018)

And don't forget, Bilbo had his own "Translations from the Elvish".


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2018)

Yes, and for me, the "Numenorean transmission" and the "Bilbo transmission" are in the same line. I only mention this as some folk hold the opinion that they are separate, external ideas.

For me the superseded idea is what I'll call (briefly and thus possibly confusingly) the
"Elves to Elfwine" scenario. That noted, Elves will still be involved of course, beyond the
matter of language (and I think some texts were still to be considered wholly or mostly Elvish
in perspective, just not _Quenta Silmarillion_), but before we get to Bilbo in Rivendell, Men get involved.

A typescript of _Annals of Aman_ offers the Númenorean scenario/transmission as well. I note that the Elf Rúmil still makes the Annals, but: "Here begin the "Annals of Aman". Rúmil made them in the Elder Days, and they were held in memory by the Exiles. Those parts which we learned and remembered were thus set down in Númenor before the Shadow fell upon it."

I also think the Annals were going to be superseded themselves by a new _Tale of Years_, but the general idea here is still nicely illustrated, I think.


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## Cloudhauler (Jun 20, 2018)

After digging a little deeper it appears that Pengolodh of Gondolin had a part in the original texts as well. Picking up where Rúmil left off.


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2018)

Yes! In the "Elves to Elfwine" scenario, Elfwine's note to the _Silmarillion_ states that Pengoloð wrote "these histories", and in their making used certain writings by Rúmil.

And there is still a place for him in the Numenorean/Bilbo transmission. Published in _Vinyar Tengwar_ 48, we find the _Synopsis of Pengoloð's Eldarinwe Leperi are Notessi: _

"The following account is an abbreviation of a curious document, preserved in the archives of Gondor by strange chance (or by many such chances) from the Elder Days, but in a copy apparently made in Númenor not long before its downfall: probably by or at the orders of Elendil himself, when selecting such records as he could hope to store for the journey to Middle-earth. This one no doubt owed its selection and its copying, first to Elendil's own love of the Eldarin tongues and of the works of the loremasters who wrote about their history; but also to the unusual contents of this disquisition in Quenya: Eldarinwe Leperi are Notessi: The Elvish Fingers and Numerals. It is attributed, by the copyist, to Pengoloð (or Quendingoldo) of Gondolin, and he describes the Elvish play-names of the fingers as used by and taught to children."​
According to author's note three, Pengoloð is an Exile, and is said to have preserved in a memory remarkable even among the Eldar the works (especially of etymology) of the earlier loremasters, including Feanor.

But that noted, I don't think all the earlier information from _Quendi And Eldar_ needs to be discarded concerning Pengoloð -- with respect to surviving texts at least (in the earlier story he was an Elf of mixed Sindarin and Noldorin ancestry, born in Nevrast). According to _Quendi _And Eldar, out of the destruction of Gondolin, Pengoloð: "... rescued a few ancient writings, and some of his own copies, compilations, and commentaries. It is due to this, and to his prodigious memory, that much of the knowledge of the Elder Days was preserved."

Also: "... before the overthrow of Morgoth and the ruin of Beleriand, he collected much material among the survivors of the wars at Sirion's Mouth concerning languages and gesture-systems with which, owing to the isolation of Gondolin, he had not before had any direct acquaintance."

The mortal Dírhaval was also said to have gathered tidings and lore at Sirion, as in the last days of Beleriand both Men and Elves came there from various places.


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## Alcuin (Jun 26, 2018)

_Silmarillion_ is not a single story but a collection of tales, as *Galin* relates. The intent seems to be similar to that in the Bible: not a single book, but an anthology of books. It’s as if you, the reader, have picked up a book in Fourth Age Gondor or Arnor that might be entitled, “The Elder Days Reader,” much like the _Norton Anthology of Poetry_: a selected collection of works by various authors that survived over the centuries and millennia, sometimes only in fragmentary or reconstructed form. 

I believe I remember that Pengoloð migrated to the Uttermost West after the War of the Elves and Sauron midway through the Second Age. Stopping along his way, he sojourned several decades in Númenor, where the Dúnedain learned a great deal from him. I suspect visitors from Tol Eressëa also brought books and tales from Eldamar from time to time, though I get the sense that information from Eldamar seems to have been under some censor by the Valar. 

Pengoloð was not the only Elven refugee from Middle-earth that passed through Númenor. After the war, many Elves left Middle-earth for the West, and while they could sail directly from Lindon, I think a number of them chose instead to travel first with the Númenóreans to visit Númenor – it’s not like they’d have another opportunity to play tourist and honored guests among Men, whose company many Elves seemed to enjoy – travelling across land to Andúnië, whence they could take passage with their kinsfolk to Tol Eressëa.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 26, 2018)

When it was first published, many who were hoping for another LOTR were dissapointed. "It's like reading the Old Testament!" was a common reaction.

My stock answer was "Yes -- if the Old Testament had been written by Vikings!"


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