# If Morgul-King had kept the Ring ...



## Mr. Underhill (Aug 8, 2003)

I know that the Nazgul were slaves to the Nine Rings which Sauron controlled via the One Ring. But if the Lord of the Nazgul had succeeded at Weathertop, he would have had the Ruling Ring which controlled his Ring ... wouldn't he have been his own master?? Why was Sauron so sure that the Nazgul would return his Precious to him even if they had attained It??


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## HLGStrider (Aug 8, 2003)

He wouldn't have had the strength or will to weild it. . .As Frodo could not. 

The ring possessed a lot of Sauron in it. There could only be one true weilder of it. 

Also, at this point, the Nazgul had no free will and crossing Sauron would've never occurred to them.


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## jimmyboy (Aug 8, 2003)

I think it was Gandalf, or maybe Aragorn, who said that Sauron now possessed their the Nazgul's nine rings, so that they were completely enslaved to "his" will, and so that even if the Black Captain had gain the One ring, he would have immediately returned it to Sauron. This, and his great power, is why the Captain was his most trusted servant.

So no, the Morgul-king would not have kept it for himself.


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## Flammifer (Aug 8, 2003)

Well put jimmyboy.

Sauron would most obviously only have trusted one who was completely and utterly under his control, i.e. the Witch-King.

The Black Captain was totally subject to the will Sauron, who, apart from possessing the strongest will in Middle-earth, also possessed the ring to which the Witch-King was obsessed. He basically had no will of his own, and, like Elgee said, the thought of crossing Sauron simply enter the BC's mind.

This is the same as how the thought that someone might want to destroy the One Ring didn't enter even the wise Sauron's mind.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 8, 2003)

Tolkien states in _The Hunt For the Ring_ that even if the Witch-King were to gain the ring, he would take it straight back to Sauron, having no will in the matter.


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## BlackCaptain (Aug 8, 2003)

Are you asking just what would happen if he didn't take itback? That would be fun to try and answer...

I never would keep it for myself though... Sauron would give me so many neat things if I brought it back... Plus he controlls me so what the heck... 

If I WERE to keep it though... I myself would have re established Angmar and assaulted Rivendell, the Rangers, and even perhaps out-flanked the Rohhirim if that's at all possible. Who knows... maybe we could have won the war if I kept the Ring and brought it to Angmar. That would be a strong force... I perhaps could have even brought some Barrow Wights to war. Iduno

Isengard from the west...
Mordor from the east...
Haradrim from the south...
Angmar from the North...

how fun that would be


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## Gothmog (Aug 8, 2003)

The point that the lord of the Nazgul would not have kept the ring has been well shown by previous posts.

However, if by some strange quirk of fate, holding the Ring freed the will of the Witch-King then so far as Middle-earth was concerned all that would have ment is that the Witch-King would have tried to control the Ring. This would have had one of Two results.

a/ The Witch-King would have succeeded in gaining control of the Ring and then would have challenged and defeated Sauron and become the Dark Lord of Mordor in his place. This would have resulted in the victory of the forces of Mordor and an everlasting darkness over Middle-earth unless the Valar or Eru intervened directly.

b/ The Witch-King would have failed in gaining control of the Ring. Sauron would have known about the problem and come himself to where the Witch-King was and taken the Ring. This would have resulted in the victory of the forces of Mordor and an everlasting darkness over Middle-earth unless the Valar or Eru intervened directly.

Take your pick.


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## Anárion (Aug 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BlackCaptain _
> *
> Isengard from the west...
> Mordor from the east...
> ...




Isengard isnt in the west!
Its right above Rohan, which, maybe your a bit rusty location wise, but its in the South.

Angmar is basicly as far west as Isengard is, just a LOT more north. And probably more west because Angmar was a very big realm. So no one would really be in the West, just Mordor in the east, Harad in the South, Angmar from the North, and Isengard stuck in the middle


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## BlackCaptain (Aug 8, 2003)

Well from the point of view of Gondor. Isengard's forces would be coming from the West, the Haradrim from the South, the Minas Morgul and Modordrim (new word!) from the East, Angmarians (another new word!) from the North...


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## Anárion (Aug 8, 2003)

From all the maps _Ive_ seen, Isengard is more North then West of Gondor, so it would attack the North, and by the time Angmar got to the scene, I think Gondor would be decimated.


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## BlackCaptain (Aug 8, 2003)

Oh well... I thought it might be a good idea if they attacked from the west though and flanked them or something...


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## Mr. Underhill (Aug 9, 2003)

I just found it ironic that the Morgul-King was sent to retrieve the Master Ring to the Ring he was enslaved to. If he controlled the Ruling Ring, then he controlled the Ring which he was enslaved to, and thus he controlled himself and should have theoretically regained his own will. I certainly believe that he had the stamina to weild the Ring on his own since he was a Sorcerer in his own right before he fell under the domination of Sauron (even though his power came from the Ring Sauron gave him, it must have taken awhile before his own will became that of Sauron's). He must have been a great king before he received his Ring for Sauron to take notice of him.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 9, 2003)

A great and corruptible one. . .as opposed to Elendil who was great but not corruptible. . .I'd say greater.


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## Feanorian (Aug 9, 2003)

> Oh well... I thought it might be a good idea if they attacked from the west though and flanked them or something...



Tis a good one. The map is not set on a circle or sphere axis it goes like this 

^
< >
v

Look Here on the map I have attached.

Its very roughly put together...forgive all the random colors its from a PBEM RPG I am involved in (Kudos Cragsmith , look at them all falling upon my kingdom [New Gondor to be exact]....... )

Notice how they are not directly North, South, etc until the point of actual attack....so as BC said:



> Isengard from the west...
> Mordor from the east...
> Haradrim from the south...
> Angmar from the North...



Is true...

While your statment:


> From all the maps Ive seen, Isengard is more North then West of Gondor, so it would attack the North, and by the time Angmar got to the scene, I think Gondor would be decimated.



Is rendered invalid because its not like they are transported from the actual point of their kingdoms...it all depends on the area of the attack.

Wow...all that for nothing. Because even if BC did take the Ring Mordor would not truly align with them....well i suppose its possilbe but highly unlikely...

EDIT: I forgot to attach the map


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## BlackCaptain (Aug 9, 2003)

Yeah... it's not like the Isengardrim (another new word!) would just cut straight across Rohan. The Rohhirrim aren't THAT bad defender's of their region. The Isengardrim would have went along the mountains, and have tried to take Edoras. I would have...


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