# That darn Daeron!



## Confusticated (Jul 28, 2004)

.............


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## Inderjit S (Jul 31, 2004)

I think it was through general concern. Men were certainly villified-esp. Men who spoke the language of the perfidious Northern Sindarins and he would have been shocked at Luthien's association with this strange, and unseemly man, anyone would, the Sindar lived in a pretty enclosed world with little outside contact. Some of it may have been motivated by spite though.

And why not keep her as his brother? Maybe Tolkien wanted to keep Luthien as the only child of Thingol-makes her more special and unique I suppose, and it could be that it was just an ephemeral idea; Tolkien changed a lot of things for no apparent reason. 

Was his love for her sexual or platonic? I don't know-if it was sexual then why does Tolkien state in his latter texts that Celebrimbor was a descendant of claimed descent from Daeron? Though Elves may have had more then one love, if not more then one marriage.



> Think if he would have gone out wandering and come in all worn out and weary he would have had a chance with her?



hehe...A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.


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## Confusticated (Jul 31, 2004)

Inderjit S said:


> Was his love for her sexual or platonic? I don't know-if it was sexual then why does Tolkien state in his latter texts that Celebrimbor was a descendant of claimed descent from Daeron? Though Elves may have had more then one love, if not more then one marriage.



Well I have got the impression it was romantic kind of love. But as for the idea of Celebrimbor being a Sinda come from Daeron I think the explaintion is obvious once you consider it.

Strange it says that Celebrimbor "claimed" descent from Daeron. Well why not just say that he was "a Sinda descended from Daeron"? Remember Celebrimbor's reason for staying behind in Nargothrond? He was aghast at his father's actions. I mean, if Curufin was your father would you admit it? 

Then look at the reason for making Daeron a Sinda. This was to explain the use of Daeron's runes in Eregion from where it spread to the Dwarves who then adapted it and used it frequently. Compare this to the possible reasons for making Celebrimbor a descendant of Feanor, and so of Curufin in specific. I do not remember if we are told why exactly Tolkien thought this was a good idea but the first idea in my is that it is because of his skill as a smith. And just off the top of my head was his name Silver-fist not the reason for him having been a Teler for a time? Or was him being a Teler in fact the inspiration for making the Teleri great silversmiths? (I'll have to check).

But as for the Sinda reason, I think this could have been easily enough explained by the fact that runes are more suitable for inscriptions, and therefore would be used often among metalsmiths right? On the other hand, not all great craftsmen need descend from feanor himself . 

Not that I will chose to like whichever version that I think offers the better explaination of some fact in the story, but it is something to think to about.

But back on topic... as you pointed out, it isn't impossable for an elf to love more than one person. It is however impossable that Celebrimbor the Sinda's mother is the deepest darkest most best kept secret in the history of elvish scandal .


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## Aiwendil2 (Aug 6, 2004)

Nóm wrote:


> Daeron.... he told on Luthien every chance he got when it came to Beren.



Not quite, if I recall correctly. He betrays her first when she is meeting Beren in the woods, which leads to Beren's encounter with Thingol and the quest of the Silmaril. Then he betrays her when she is thinking of going out after Beren to rescue him from Tol-in-Gaurhoth, resulting in her imprisonment in the tree-house. But then, when she's casting her spells, he asks her what she's doing and she tells him - and he holds his tongue. It's the same old story-telling pattern as in the three little pigs - the first time a mistake is made; the second time the mistake is repeated; the third time breaks the pattern.

Inderjit wrote:


> And why not keep her as his brother? Maybe Tolkien wanted to keep Luthien as the only child of Thingol-makes her more special and unique I suppose



I think that's part of it; but also it allows his attraction to her, which goes a little way toward motivating his dislike for Beren.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 7, 2004)

I think because Jealousy is such a strong factor in so many tragic tales. Also because, as the most beautiful of creatures, it seems unreasonable that no one else would be in love with her.

Also there is the protection bit.


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## Elfarmari (Aug 29, 2004)

Inderjit S said:


> I think it was through general concern. Men were certainly villified-esp. Men who spoke the language of the perfidious Northern Sindarins and he would have been shocked at Luthien's association with this strange, and unseemly man, anyone would, the Sindar lived in a pretty enclosed world with little outside contact. Some of it may have been motivated by spite though.


I always assumed whatever his motivations, the fact that Beren was a Man was the main reason for Daeron's concern, and reporting to Thingol. Beren and Luthien were the first union of Eldar and Edain, and before them it was basically held unthinkable (as Andreth and Aegnor in Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth). By many, then, their love would have seemed doomed and completely hopeless from the start, so that by stopping this love, Daeron may have thought he had Luthien's best interests at heart, regardless of his own feelings for her.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 29, 2004)

> Thingol. Beren and Luthien were the first union of Eldar and Edain, and before them it was basically held unthinkable (as Andreth and Aegnor in Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth).



Indeed-when a wise Elf like Finrod sees little good in such a union, then is it any wonder that a less wise Elf such as Daeron and Thingol's people reacted in the way they did? The union of mortal and immortal was a big no-no--who knew how catostrophic the results could be?


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