# Strongest Elven Stronghold in Beleriand?



## agarwaen (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm curious what other people's opinion are on this...

Which of these 3 strongholds of the elves was the strongest and most fair ere its fall?


----------



## Sirion (Jan 17, 2003)

Strongest I would give to Doriath when the Girdle of Melian was up and working. Nothing of Morgoth ever really got through that. Fairest i would say Gondolin, cuz it states that it is in several passages if i remember correctly. Its also situated in a beautiful valley surrounded by mountains, not underground like the other two.


----------



## ssgrif (Jan 17, 2003)

I would have to say Doriath also.

Just came across with having a strong pressance throughout, especially with the Girdle of Melian.


----------



## Rúmil (Jan 17, 2003)

While the Girdle lasted, Doriath. Simple criterion: it was never taken by Morgoth.


----------



## redline2200 (Jan 17, 2003)

Doriath: it was the only elven fortress with the direct powers of a Maia working towards its protection.


----------



## Gil-Galad (Jan 17, 2003)

Like all of you I have to agree that Doriath is the strongest elven stronghold in Beleriand.But which was stonger Gondolin or Nargothrond?


----------



## gate7ole (Jan 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *Like all of you I have to agree that Doriath is the strongest elven stronghold in Beleriand.But which was stonger Gondolin or Nargothrond? *


Well, both were based on secrecy. They both fell when they were discovered by the enemy. But my idea is that Gondolin could stand longer, being better fortified. Then again, Nargothrond had lost its king (Finrod). I don't think that it would have fallen that eaily with Finrod alive.


----------



## Ithrynluin (Jan 21, 2003)

Gondolin had a better "natural" fortification and the vigilance of the Eagles, but my vote goes to Doriath, almost solely on account of the protection that Melian cast around it. Without it, it pretty much lay open to invaders.


----------



## Celebthôl (Jan 21, 2003)

well they were all sacked anyway so it dont really matter, but id have to say Gondolin, as nothing save the entire army of Morgoth could sack it, and it was the last to fall aswell!

Thôl


----------



## Sirion (Jan 21, 2003)

I don't think doriath would have fallen if Thingol hadnt been such a fool and entwined himself in the Curse of the Noldor. 

Between Nargothrond and Gondolin, i'd say that Gondolin was definitely stronger. It took many dragons and wyrms and hundreds of balrogs and a host of orcs, and an inside man (elf?) to defeat the city. Nargothrond was beaten by one dragon and some orcs.


----------



## gate7ole (Jan 22, 2003)

> Between Nargothrond and Gondolin, i'd say that Gondolin was definitely stronger. It took many dragons and wyrms and hundreds of balrogs and a host of orcs, and an inside man (elf?) to defeat the city. Nargothrond was beaten by one dragon and some orcs.


While I also chose Gondolin from Nargothrond, I can’t accept such a comparison. Remember Nargothrond was not a hidden kingdom. Sure, Morgoth didn’t know it’s exact place but he had a general idea. And Nargothrond was continuously on war with Orcs, having many casualties. Just for a time they turned to secrecy and then Túrin came and brought them to war again.
On the other hand Gondolin was definitely hiding. The Elves there had no wars, no casualties, but thrived and prospered. Of course Morgoth needed more strength to defeat them, but they had to fight only once (and lost).
And I repeat that Nargothrond lacked its natural leader, the wise Finrod. With him, they would have lasted much longer.


----------



## Orodreth (Jan 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole_
> *Well, both were based on secrecy. They both fell when they were discovered by the enemy. But my idea is that Gondolin could stand longer, being better fortified. Then again, Nargothrond had lost its king (Finrod). I don't think that it would have fallen that eaily with Finrod alive.*


Finrod would have been a great aid but cmon, Orodreth wasn't that bad a king, was he? Sure he listened to Túrin, although I don't know why. But there must be some good reason.


----------



## Arvedui (Jan 23, 2003)

I choose Gondolin. To me, it would be impossible to separate them on the account of how fair they were, but the description of Gondolin in "Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin" is for me the descisive factor.


----------



## Carantalath (Jan 23, 2003)

The strongest elven stronghold in Beleriand would be Doriath in my opinion, because of the Girdle of Melian. But I think that the most beautiful would be Gondolin. I saw a painting of it somewhere and it looked really pretty (I don't know how accurate that painting was with the books but I do know that every time I think of Gondolin, I think of that picture).


----------



## Gil-Galad (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole _
> *Well, both were based on secrecy. They both fell when they were discovered by the enemy. But my idea is that Gondolin could stand longer, being better fortified. Then again, Nargothrond had lost its king (Finrod). I don't think that it would have fallen that eaily with Finrod alive. *


 I do not agree.Nargothrond wouldn't have been destroyed if it hadn't been Turin and his decision to brake the bridge.


----------

