# The Foundations of the Realms in Exile; how did they find eachother again?



## Arvedui (Oct 8, 2005)

After the Fall of Númenor, Elendil, Isildur, and Anárion were borne to Middle-earth on huge waves, And according to the _Tale of Years,_ they established the Realms in Exile in S.A. 3320.

From _The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age_:


> Elendil was cast up by the waves in the land of Lindon, and he was befriended by Gil-galad. Thence he passed up the River Lhûn, and beyond Ered Luin he established his realm, and his people dwelt in many places in Eriador about the courses of the Lhûn and the Baranduin; but his chief city was at Annúminas beside the water of Lake Nenuial. At Fornost upon the North Downs also the Númenóreans dwelt, and in Cardolan, and in the hills of Rhudaur; and towers they raised upon Emyn Beraid and upon Amon Sûl; and there remain many barrows and ruined works in those places, but the towers of Emyn Beraid still look towards the sea.
> Isildur and Anárion were borne away southwards, and at the last they brought their ships up the Great River Anduin, that flows out of Rhovanion into the western sea in the Bay of Belfalas; and they established a realm in those lands that were after called Gondor, whereas the Northern Kingdom was named Arnor.


The next paragraph states that:


> Many treasures and great heirlooms of virtue and wonder the Exiles had brought from Númenor; and of these the most renowned were the Seven Stones and the White Tree. The White Tree was grown from the fruit of Nimloth the Fair that stood in the courts of the Bang at Armenelos in Númenor, ere Sauron burned it; and Nimloth was in its turn descended from the Tree of Tirion, that was an image of the Eldest of Trees, White Telperion which Yavanna caused to grow in the land of the Valar. The Tree, memorial of the Eldar and of the light of Valinor, was planted in Minas Ithil before the house of Isildur, since he it was that had saved the fruit from destruction; but the Stones were divided.
> Three Elendil took, and his sons each two. Those of Elendil were set in towers upon Emyn Beraid, and upon Amon Sûl, and in the city of Annúminas. But those of his sons were at Minas Ithil and Minas Anor, and at Orthanc and in Osgiliath. Now these Stones had this virtue that those who looked therein might perceive in them things far off, whether in place or in time. For the most part they revealed only things near to another kindred Stone, for the Stones each called to each; but those who possessed great strength of will and of mind might learn to direct their gaze whither they would. Thus the Númenóreans were aware of many things that their enemies wished to conceal, and little escaped their vigilance in the days of their might.


One part of the nine ships landed far north in Middle-earth, while those that landed with Isildur & Anárior landed quite some distance away. Still, Tolkien gives no information on how the two groups met! All of a sudden, they just divided the Seven Stones...

So do any of you have an idea on how long it took before contact was established between Elendil and his sons, or how that contact came about? Were the Elves involved, or did they search the coast by ships, searching for news?

I haven't found anything on this, and by now I am getting a bit annoyed, so any useful theory that can be backed up will be most useful.

Thanks


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## Thorondor_ (Oct 8, 2005)

> So do any of you have an idea on how long it took before contact was established between Elendil and his sons, or how that contact came about?


 Maybe Elendil used the palantiri to find the other Numenoreans. According to the "Heirs of Elendil", HoME 12, Numenor fell in 3319, while the establishment of the realms in exile, planting of the tree and the division of the stones in mentioned in 3320.

[Another, less likely, theory for their contact: in Osanwe kenta there are mentioned three ways by which strengthening of thought transimission can come by for the Incarnates (humans in this case): affinity (due to kinship, love, friendship and sympathy); urgency ("urgency is imparted by great need of the "sender" (as in joy, grief or fear); and if these things are in any degree shared by the "receiver" the thought is the clearer received"); and authority ("authority may also lend force to the thought of one who has a duty towards another, or of any ruler who has a right to issue commands or to seek the truth for the good of others"). Imo, all these three causes of strengthening of thought transimission were present.]


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## Gothmog (Oct 9, 2005)

I am looking into this. However, I will give my first thoughts on the question. The 7 Palantiri were given to the 'Elf-friends' of Numenor by the Elves of Tol Eressia, is it likely that all seven would have been in One ship? I think it more reasonable that they were in different ships, certainly in the ships of Elendil, Anarion and Isildur. So the finding of each other would not have taken long.

Another possibility is that once landed Isildur and Anarion would have probably got at least one ship sea-worthy as quickly as possible to sail north to meet with Gil-galad from whom they could expect news and if needed assistance. So again the two groups would meet very soon after landing.

The comments about the division of the stones later most likely refer to the final division when the two kingdoms were established rather than meaning that they were all on one ship coming from Numenor.


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## bauglir (Oct 12, 2005)

The Numenoreans did have cities in Middle Earth, and since it was a seafaring nation i would think there was trade going from Pelargir to the elf realms on the coast (Pelargir was an elf friend haven), or to northern numenorean settlements (i haven`t heard of any northern settlements, but Elendil did somehow get enough people to create a whole kingdom, so there must have been people up there).

The elves or northern numenorians would have noted that Elendil came and then told traders or search ships coming up the coast.


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## Ingwë (Oct 15, 2005)

As Bauglir previously mentioned, the Numenoreans had cities in Middle-earth so Isildur and Anarion knew where are they. Elendil was born to the West shore of Middle-earth but I suppose that he and his sons were together almost till the end when they were born to the shores. They knew where will they go. But what kind of storm was it  ? Some ships were born to the South and the other were born to the North. That makes me think that the storm 'caught' them when they left Númenor. But it is good that the possessed the Palantiri. I'm shore that they were on different ships. Elendil was Wise. I suppose that he gave Four of the Seven Stones to his sons in case something happens. And it happened. So the Stones were in use. Possibly before landing Elendil wanted to make contact with his sons so he used the Palantiri. Or if he didn't do that when sailing he would do it just when they landed


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## Valandil (Nov 4, 2005)

It seems possible that they stayed in contact via palantiri throughout the whole sea voyage - and each was able to discover that way just when and where the other party had landed.

I once asked a question on another board about the meaning of the 'seven stars' in the rhyme cited by Gandalf toward the very end of Book III of LOTR:

_Tall ships and tall kings,
Three times three,
What brought they from the foundered land,
Over the flowing sea?
Seven stars and seven stones,
And one white tree._

The white tree is evident and the seven stones are the palantiri, as we know. So I asked what the seven stars were.

I wasn't totally satisfied with the answer, but was told (and perhaps references were given - I'll go back there and do a search to check) - that the seven palantiri were placed on 7 different ships - and that each ship with a palanti few a banner with a star to represent it.

I didn't like the answer because it just made the stars a redundant reference to the same thing as the stones - and also because it squelched imaginative possibilities of what ELSE the stars might be.  However - if there's something telling us that the seven stones were on seven different ships, that would go a long way toward explaining how Elendil and his sons kept in contact with one another.

(*EDIT:* I just checked that other thread and there was never a reference given for the claim that this referered to banners on the seven ships of the nine which carried a Palantir)


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## Gothmog (Nov 4, 2005)

Valandil

You remind me of my wondering about the 'Seven Stars' so I have had a look into this. It seems that the Seven Stars were a sign of Elendil, part of his royal badge. In The Return of the King when Aragorn shows his banner it is said:



> and behold! upon the foremost ship a great standard broke, and the wind displayed it as she turned towards the Harlond. There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor; but Seven Stars were about it, and a high crown above it, the signs of Elendil that no lord had borne for years beyond count.



Also earlier in the story when Narsil was re-forged we are told:



> The Sword of Elendil was forged anew by Elvish smiths, and on its blade was traced a device of seven stars set between the crescent Moon and the rayed Sun, and about them was written many runes; for Aragorn son of Arathorn was going to war upon the marches of Mordor.



This is an echo of them being a sign of Elendil and indication of Aragorn as heir to Elendil's high-kingship.

Elendil it would seem used the seven stars as his badge, certainly from the time they left Numenor and possibly before. So they may refer to the fact that the son of Amandil still held allegiance to the Valar and that the seven stars referred to the 'Sickle of the Valar' a symbol held in reverence by the Elves and the Atani of old.


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## Valandil (Nov 4, 2005)

Yes - I was told about the Sickle of the Valar, and knew that Elendil used the seven stars in his emblem.

It's just that the poem SOUNDS like they're something that he and his sons brought with them. Something more than just an emblem, or reverence for particular stars, I might almost think.


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## Gothmog (Nov 4, 2005)

Valandil said:


> Yes - I was told about the Sickle of the Valar, and knew that Elendil used the seven stars in his emblem.
> 
> It's just that the poem SOUNDS like they're something that he and his sons brought with them. Something more than just an emblem, or reverence for particular stars, I might almost think.


 I don't think that it is reverence for a couple of lights seen in the night sky. It is the fact that they represent the reverence of the faithful of Numeor for the Valar, a very important thing and the reason they left Numenor for Middle-earth rather than following the doomed invasion of Aman.


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