# GoL: Languages... The Sequel!



## Uminya

*Alphabet*

As promised, here is the alphabet I devised for the purpose of someday completing a new language. The letters describe definite phoenetic sounds (unlike English, which has multiple sounds for certain letters). There are 17 vowels and 26 consonants.


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## Uminya

*Numerals*

The numberic system faintly resembles the Roman system, but rather than placing the numerals in a line, the multiples of 10 (100, 1000, etc.) have the unit above them, as shown on the numeral page.


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## Talierin

Pretty neat!!! It kind of reminds me of an eastern alphabet, at least in the shape of the characters. Very elegant.


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## Uminya

I'm going to try to post a sample of some words in the language some time early this week.


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## whiterider

cool ! this will come in handy


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## Dengen-Goroth

Very well done Ciryaher. I shall put this to use all to quickly.


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## Uminya

Couldn't find your page, Mike...

I will make appendations as soon as I am un-grounded from my regular computer, and can use the scanner 

On a note about the language, I only have about 20 words, and they are primarily about elements of nature. Modern technological, social, or otherwise 'new' words will be left out.


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## Beorn

Ho hum...that's wierd because I uploaded it with no trouble last night. The one at eccentrix.com is down. You can suffer through the one at f2s.com, that will take a while anywhere not in the UK. Unless anyone is willing to host one pic, i guess it's not gonna be seen


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## Aerin

Just a quick question Ciryaher- how does the High King of Arnor get grounded....


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## Uminya

He gets grounded by staying on the computer for 5 hours....


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## Talierin

oh, bad naughty Cir!!!

I can't believe it, I just downloaded a font that looks a lot like your alphabet! I'll try and get a sample of it up here today.


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## Uminya

OK, here are some names translated phoenetically to my alphabet (which doesn't yet have a name) and a few appendations.

Also, when a hyphen is used in a word (such as Dengen-Goroth and Tar-Ancalime) a comma is used between the words to indicate a pause.


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## Chippy

this has nothing to do with this subject but..

ciryaher the last line in your signature ..what does it mean...the one u had before was german i think ..is this one german too..

i do alittle bit of german at school...


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## Beorn

When I ran that through a translator (), it literally came out to "I hunt mean devil" Of course, orginization and conjugation cannot come out completely right from a non-human translator, but you get the general idea.


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## Kementari

I think it means "I hunt my ememies"


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## Dengen-Goroth

Wow Ciryaher. i just looked over that now. looks very very good! I'm writing a story right now. I know, how pathetic is that. but Tolkien wrote Silmaillion all his life, so I might as well start now. All I need to do now is to start an alphabet


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## Uminya

Thank you Dengen. I am working on words, which will be a daunting task (it's hard enough remembering enough words in English). The sentances will follow TVS format, I suppose, and verbs are smashed together with their subject (i.e.: yellow, round ball would be yellowroundball) a bit like Entish.

Yes, my sig is German for: I hunt my Enemy (not plural, for all are one...)


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## Chippy

thanks cir


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## Uminya

Ahh, I wanted to make sure this post doesn't get deleted, so I'm posting 

I am compiling a list of words, which I will eventually convert into my own language. Since the language is for a more nature oriented culture, no modern technological terms will be included (such as mechanic, automobile, or co-processing unit). I am working on the first part right now, People/Occupations and Nature/Colors. It's very tedious...


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## Uminya

Ok, I've finished a list of words, but I have to transcribe them and then scan them. I have the pronunctiations, but they aren't in the script.


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## Uminya

Sorry I can't put all these on one post, but following are the revised and edited alphabet and 4 pages of words...

Here are the vowels.


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## Uminya

Here is the revised consonant list.


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## Uminya

Here is the first page of words. The words have to deal with colors and other natural things.


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## Uminya

Here is the FOURTH page, since the second and third pages are too large *grumble*...


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## syongstar

*number words*

like totally werid that you want to be so secret,like why?lol!!!!!!!


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## Kit Baggins

*Creating your own languages*

I think there was a thread a while back about creating your own languages, but I can't find it now  . I wanted to tell you about the language I've created in my long-running fantasy series _The Legends of Zodia_- Quaronese.

Quaronese is a quite complex language that sounds somewhat like French or Italian. It has a 22-letter alphabet (a, b, d, e, f, g, h, i, k, l, m, n, o, p, r, s, t, v, w, x, y, and z). These aren't the letters themselves- they have a totally different alphabet from ours . Ironically, despite their name, they have no letter 'q', and use 'kv' instead.

Here are a couple of sample phrases of Quaronese:

Ey seshla teo nir ey drenole delaro selatré.
-The white snow sparkled on the hard ground. {literally 'the snow white on the ground hard sparkled). 

And even more useful:
Noémi Karrat Duosa, leneri feiu ey Noé Kvavone, feiu ey Seydoné refardi.
-Empress Karrat the Second, ruler of the Quara Empire, defeater of the Cydonians (an ancient enemy of the Quarons).

In Quaronese, the suffix 'i' (e.g. Noémi, leneri) indicates that the person or thing it is referring to is female. The male equivelent is 'o' (e.g. Noémo- Emperor).

~Kit


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## Zale

Wow! Kit! You should have posted in my thread! (the one you were looking for). Sounds like you've gone quite a long way with your language, about as far as me. Keep going; you may want to visit the Alrdalambion site (www.ardalambion.com) to see their Language Construction Kit, it really helped me.

Another phrase in my lingo:

Lasalketta es asikyel tiranil! Felare salkado es sikyel etel!
(He has killed the queen's baby! The child of Light is dead!)

BTW - why do you have 'c' as well as 'k' and 's' in your alphabet?


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## Kit Baggins

That, my friend, is a very good question...

I guess they probably don't have the letter 'c' either. 

~Kit 

BTW, thanks for the link  .

EDIT: No more letter 'c'  .


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## Zale

In English we only have 'c' because of some complicated, convoluted reasons which I unfortunately don't know. In my alphabet I have a series of velar consonants which includes a stop (k), and I also have an alveolar fricative (s) - there's simply no need for a 'c'.
I would put up my alphabet, but I have no scanner & it looks awful when put through Paint or anything similar.
I don't know what my language sounds like (make up your own minds!) but I would say it is almost like exotic Quenya, with a hint of rainforest. Something like that, anyway.


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## Uminya

Ooo, I thought this thread had gone the way of the dodo. I think I'll take off my posts on here, and then resize and repost them so they aren't so big and hard to make out 

Your language sounds neat, Kit  I like the bit of history you have there (I haven't gotten around to anything other than a few words )


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## HLGStrider

I had like five hundred words to my language... then I decided to restructure it so that it actually has roots and such... I've gotten about thirty words in this new way. Here is a statement in both the old language and restructured new:
Per lil co lyn. Per lil co liltay. Per say an zach. Per say an hailfor. Shere Daysara per say gareth.

I shine like silver. I shine like gold. I am no warrior. I am a healer. In God I am strong.

I really need to restructure further.


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## Kit Baggins

> _Originally posted by Ciryaher _
> *Your language sounds neat, Kit  I like the bit of history you have there (I haven't gotten around to anything other than a few words ) *


The Quarons have quite a long history. I have the entire timeline of their history somewhere (but I'm too lazy to find it  ).

OK then, a bit of info about the Quarons:
They are approximately 13 feet tall, yellow, somewhat scaly (more like a snake than a fish), and amphibious. They live in the Sky City of Quara, which orbits the planet of Syrenia. They are very technologically advanced, but also arrogant, and rather intolerant of the other Imperial races, especially the warring Zodians and Toquarians (they've been in a state of war for 386 years, 8 months and 27 days, at the time that my stories are set). They are ruled by 15-year-old Empress Karrat II, and the Provincial Governors- Claire and Pegonis Blazefyre ã Taiilos (Governors of Zodia), Cat and Sirrus ã Atrus (Governors of Riven), Dak and Kimarey Felix (Governors of Toquaria) and Veovis and Marina ã Rakeri (Governors of Quara).

I'll post more later.

~Kit


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## Kit Baggins

OK then, here is todays pointless Quaronese phrase:

_Lir feiu Téala kiano iem katre manaroé?!_

-Which son of a small, garbage-eating rodent (Téala) stole my money?!

'Son of a Téala' is the Quaronese equivalent, I suppose, of 'son of a b***ch'.

An interesting variation on this phrase is:

_Lir feiu Téala kiano iem selani telané?!?_

-Which son of a small, garbage-eating rodent ate my underpants?!?

That would make a pretty good siggie  !

~Kit


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## HLGStrider

*Languages... The Sequel!*

I'll start it off with an example of my langauge. I wrote a letter to my friend in it.. never sent it, it was just for practice. Here we go... I won't post a translation. The attachment (which Talierin promised me to post later, so please be patient... I'm sorry I'm too tech challanged to get it up myself) is this letter in my alphabet. 
Renifal (My friends name),
'Ti per glalani 'yi 'wen tarejee glacayt, seceste 'yi cayoos gla-anacay, seca seca, per lana 'ix tare. Per ootay jee gla0estet 'oh tare, an caydu say dunan caydu say cayn, andun caydu 'yi perjee gla-estet say la la anco caydu say perjee 'yi 'i caydu say la-bay, lelgare lelgare. Per lananfin tare. 
Tare say ana-mal, inmayjeth inmayjeth, lelper lelper. Per cilcay-es du-cay 'wen for-es persay tarejee. Tare an say 'rer eba. An mal say 'rer eba co per gla-este-am. Per lant tare 'wen fareni-es per. Per fareni tare. Cascay este say? Perdu an say-es, andun per angor amone-glaeste-es.
Fareni,
(My name)

words like 'rer (preceded by an ' here and on the translation into my alphabet) are one letter. The ' means that the letter is to be said as its name... W would be Double U for instance...


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## HobbitGirl

That is so cool Elgee! It has such a unique flow to it.

I have a language as well, but since my scanner bites, unfortunatly I don't have a picture of my alphabet. This verse to a song I'm writing in my language (I-Lah) was my siggy for a while. For lack of a better name, the song is called Lahn oo Laelitu, or Song to the Stars.

Ah laelitu laena sotae laetae
Arane woolah arali rilah shali
Eewi subaini laelitu sotae
Eewi lene tela bilah laerali.


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## Talierin

Here you go, Elgee!


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## goldmare

If that is just a substitution code, or cipher, that would be pretty easy to break. (Trust me, I've done it before.) Let me try to break it, and I'll post it when I'm done.


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## HLGStrider

It isn't exactly subsitution. My language has well over thirty letters in it, all representing different sounds, rather than letters... also there are afew puncuation marks thrown in... but you can try.

Thanks Tal


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## goldmare

Oh, I meant Talierin's language. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Talierin

no, no, that's not mine, that's HLG's.... she was having troubles posting the attachment so I fixed it for her and posted it.


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## HLGStrider

See, is mine
where are Lant and Cir? They have languages!


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## goldmare

Ok, I confess myself befuddled. I have been able to get very little information out of the message in the attachment, although there are a few more ideas that I got from your post that I am going to try out as soon as I can. Also, since it is handwritten, it is a bit more confusing than I am used to (no offense to your penmanship skills, Elgee). Could you maybe post a translation? It would really be interesting to study, although if you want to keep it a secret, that's entirely your decision and I would totally understand it. I'm just a big buff for translating languages and deciphering codes and all that. And one of these days I'll come up with my own, and post it here, but at present I have been too busy.


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## HLGStrider

I did post a translation. That's what my first post is... he he he...

It's in my langauge both ways. I could post a translation to it in English, of course, but it would be incredibly sappy.


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## goldmare

Is your language part piglatin? Cuz that's what some of it seems like.


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## HLGStrider

No.. I just like the -ay type sounds... I guess because the only language I've studied besides English is Spanish.


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## Dragon

do you use any roots in your language(mort=dead, pre=before, post=after, etc.) or is it completely made up with no references to known words whatsoever?


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## HLGStrider

Roots, yes.
For instance
Bur-silence
air-messenger, statement, also giver
cay-physical or tangible
cair-recieve
sara-spirit.
mal- man
ana-beauty
henceforth
ana-mal- handsome in a masculine way as opposed to simply ana which is a more feminine term.

burair-silent messenger, writing
burcair-silent receiver, reading

Most are made up of some sort of structure, hence you see a common occurance of some sounds (gla, for instance, meaning sight).


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## Uminya

Ok, I now have time to post in this thread 

If I had a scanner, I'd be able to show more progress in it, but alas, I don't.

I'll post the vowels, consonants, and then several lists of words. Finally, I'll post an example of how to phoenetically write it using the Phoenician-derived text most of us use to type with


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## Uminya

Here are the consonants:


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## Uminya

Here is one of the eight-ish pages of words that I have, although only two have been scanned:


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## Uminya

Here is the second of the two pages of words that got scanned:


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## Dragon

to me, cir, it feels very insectoid/squirrel-ish


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## Uminya

Ah....it's actually supposed to be a language for a desert people or a mountain-forest people. It's got hard sounds, but with an underlying flow.

The sounds can only be made by creatures with the correct lip, tooth, tongue, and throat control, so an arthropidic species would not be capable of this speech.


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## HLGStrider

In my languages you don't use the throat... he he...


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## Dragon

well, I'm sure neither would be ABLE to use it, but they are waht your language reminds me of


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## HLGStrider

Anyone want to give me something to transalate into my language? It helps me figure out where I have gaps in it. . .


Anyone else have a language?


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## Lantarion

I cannot believe I haven't seen this thread before.. Or maybe I have but I haven't poste dhere. 

I've been working on several linked languages for a really long time.. But I haven't worked on it properly for ages.
However, I have sorted out the conjugation of verbs in one of them (the 'main' one, called Rómocantë), and it's basically in its final form. 
The trouble is I haven't advanced the vocabulary enough, and I only have about twenty verbs! I've mainly been concentrating on the root-language, or -system, from whence Rómocantë originates.
I guess I can give y'all a little demonstration sometime.. But it'll have to be brief because otherwise I'll go ranting about the history entwined in the languages etc.


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## HLGStrider

It was buried back in the first few pages of the Guild of Writers. I was dragging up old threads last night because I was bored.


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## Lantarion

*Rómocantë and its subsidiary history etc. © Kasper Salonen*

Glad you did. 

Well here's a sentence you can translate Elgee (a good one to test grammar on): *I had created a fruitful forest*. A little different, but not such a great sentence.. If others could suggest slightly longer sentences, it would give me a chance to both excercise my new conjugation-system and also to expand my vocabulary. 
Anyway the phrase above in Rómocantë: _Namaihir yantë tárino_, or _Namaihir yandetarin_.

The verb-body is _nama-_ (of 'to create'), and the singular, 1st person perfect tense suffix is _-ihir_.
_Yantë_ is an adjective ('fruitful', from the root-form YÂ), and can be placed either before or after the object in question.
The singular form of 'forest' is _tárin_ or _tarin_, from the word _táro_, 'tree'. The suffix '-o' is very seldom used at all, but it is the accusative suffix, which indicates the object in the sentence (like in Latin, where it is _-um, -am, or -m_ in singular form). Another form of this accusative case-suffix is '-a', which is also used for words ending with consonants (e.g. _tárina_).
I also like putting words together to form longer ones (which is often done in Finnish), so instead of _tárin yantë_ I would personally use _yandetárin_. (Note that the 't' in _yantë_ can become a 'd' when added to the word for 'forest'; this is merely a pronounciation based change, but _yantetarin_ is also acceptable, and I would probably use that myself. Rómocantë does not contain many instances of 'harsh' consonants like 'g', 'd' or 'b', but usually uses the letters 'c/k', 't' and 'p' respectively. But in this case pronunciation is easier for English-speakers when a 'harsh' consonant is introduced.)

Oh and all the vowels are phonetic, so all instances of 'a' are pronounced as in _*u*nder_, and all instances of 'á' are pronuonced as in _f*a*ther_. 
Similarly 'e' is pronounced as in _*e*nd_ and 'é' as a long form of that.
'I' is pronounced as in _bl*i*nk_, and 'í' as in _*ee*l_.
The 'o's are pronounced as in _*o*tter_, and 'ó' as in _f*a*ll_ (long 'o'). 
All instances of 'u' are pronounced as in _f*oo*l_ (but short), and 'ú' as in _r*u*le_. 

The accentations above some vowels: 
´ indicates a long vowel; in earlier forms of Rómocantë or older languages of the same family I use the accent ^ for the same purpose. Both these accents are used for all vowels (including, in rare cases, the vowel-form of the letter 'y')

¨ is used only with the letter 'e', and it indicates that the letter should be pronounced instead of being left silent. The letter is not long, but short like in the word _*e*dge_.


Whew there ya go. 

I actually haven't decided on the final marker that will differentiate verbs from other vocabulary-words. Originally I had all verbs ending with 'a', but that greatly limits the range of possible nouns, so I will change it to something else. But in all cases of conjugation all you need to know is the verb-body (as here we had _nama-_).

If this looks to you like Quenya, then I'm flattered .
No but seriously, I only use the same accentations as JRRT does in Quenya; the rest might look similar because Rómocantë, like Quenya, is an almost wholly phonetic language and has a specific form of pronunciation (i.e. just as it is spelt). 
But I don't know any Quenya at all, apart from a few odd words, so I didn't really use it as a 'reference' or anything. But I suppose my familiarity with the 'Elvish' tone of speech and style affected my choice of words and pronunciation. 

Elgee, your language looks really beautiful! I don't like the alphabet much (although it looks very exotic and varied), but some of the shapes and forms you use I really like. I'd like to see more of the tongue though!


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## HLGStrider

I'm wondering now if I have a word for fruitful. . .I have an I. . .I have a created. . .I have a forest. . .


Per gorfor-am . . .no wait. . .gorfor is hand not create. . .Great. . .I need to find my notes!

Where did I put them? Wait. . .I have a database on my computer. ..yeah, that'll help. ..ok, my database says I was correct. Gorfor is create. . .then what is hand. . .hand is forgor. . .I can see why I mixed them up. I really need to get more creative with my root system. 

Anyway. . .

*I had created a fruitful forest* becomes _Per gorfor-am i ceer'ti vena._

Ceer'ti being a word I made up just now, but sort of like. It would be pronounced with a K not an S sound. . .though I am inconsistant about whether or not C is K or S in some cases. Ti is pronounced like the drink. Anyway, Ceer is the root for mother and ti is the root for resemblence, so it would probably be better translated fertile than fruitful.

I'll give you a setence: 

*The waves fell hard upon the shore, crashing like giants, disappearing in foam. *

Not very good. . .but ok for off the top of my head.


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## Lantarion

*Rómocantë and its subsidiary history etc. © Kasper Salonen*

Wow I have to make up some new words for this.. 

Rómocantë is a very poetic alnguage in that there are many terms for romantic notions like waves, stars, the sky, etc. I just thought of one word for 'wave' (my first!) which means 'water-layer' or 'water-blanket'. 
I used my word-body for 'water', _na-_, and added my word _manto_, 'blanket, coverlet'.  And the plural of that would be _namanti_.
My verb-body for 'fall' is _elva-_.. 

_Namanti náraiteltë elvahtai córavë_ is the first part of that sentence.. 

But I need to rethink a lot of things in my language, everything is so incomplete and disorganized.. I'll get back to you on the rest of it. 

I love the way your language sounded there: a little like Indian, I thought.


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## HLGStrider

I don't speak Indian and have never been to India, so I can't really comment.


I don't think my language has a word for wave, but I think it would be something like Cilzee, (in which case the c is an s. . .I told you I was inconsistant) which is the combination of water and movement.


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## Zale

At last! I've started several threads like this myself, but they all sank without a trace. You see, I have not one but two conlangs, although neither is anywhere near as complete as I'd like, and the vocabulary is severely limited, but there you are.
Having lived in France for a while I have an ingrained abhorrence of too many tenses, so I've been deliberately avoiding creating more than five. I have no "plus-que-parfait" (which is what the French would call had created), so I can't (too lazy) translate the sentence.
Here's a more relevant (and simple) one: "Do you speak my language?"
Becomes "Rin almetha lan ya mefyelin?" in one, and "Temarek tyane tanam kasan?" in the second.
I started the second one first, so I have a lot more, but I won't bore you with it. I have no scanner, so both "alphabets" will have to be imagined.

To be pronounced as Latin.

Apparently I do not have authorisation to see any attachments. Why is this?


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## Lantarion

*Rómocantë and its subsidiary history etc. © Kasper Salonen*

Aww Zale, you should give it a shot! After all, it's actually a really simple sentence when you look at it! 

But huzzah for short, simple sentences! This one I have all the words for (although I haven't decided on my possessive suffixes.. Or my tenses really! But here's what I have now)

*Cantanai cantionyo?*

Verb-body: *canta-* = 'to speak'´; _cantanai_ = you speak
*cantio* = (one form of) 'language', from root KATAN, 'speech'.

I'm not satisfied with this though.. I'm going to rethink my tenses, cases and everything.. But not anytime soon. 

*Achatá toi seocaronti* = '...crashing like giants'
Verb-body: *acha-* = 'to crash, run headlong into'; _achatá_ = crashing
_toi_ = 'like', simile-word
_theocaronto / seocaronto_ = giant (plural= _theocaronti / seocaronti_

I actually created the word for 'giant' just now.. I didn't even have a word for 'like', and it was going to be '_se_'; I added it to a word I was playing with.
WHich was a mixture of _oc-_, meaning 'vertical height or growth', and _aró_, meaning 'man, figure, person'. The ending (_-nto_) is just an extension, to show the size of the subject (I have to be careful with that though, because it's probably a case suffix of mine right now   ).
But I think now I'll make a new root-word, THEA-, 'enormous'. Yeah! 

Zale, yeah as I mentioned I am working on at least two languages actively.. But Rómocantë is the one I'm going to use in any future stories set in my universe.. The other language is called _Alanarë_, or _Coi-Alanar_, or _Háth-Ei_.  These two languages are both from the root-system called Halan'Aric; Rómocantë is the latter, and is actually an evolved form of Háth-Ei.

Then I have some other languages to work on of course, as these are only present in one part of my set of continents (although Rómocantë is basically the 'Latin' or universal language in my universe..), but I've done very little on those.
But Zale that first language looks really nice; something like mine in fact.  I'm going to have to sue you for plaguerism, y'know. 
It looks pretty long, with four whole words to ask whether somebody speaks your language (just like in English, muaha).. But nice word-structuring I think, it would be interesting to see some long segment in it. 
The latter looks like some older version of the first one, or maybe some old tribal dialect which might have come into more widespread use.. Looks good too, and there's a distinct contrast between the two, especially with the usage of consonants. Looks excellent!
Elgee, I'll get back to you on the last part of that sentence you gave me!
I want to see your translations of it too, it's a tough one.

EDIT: I tried to post this yesterday but it wouldn't let me.. 
And Zale there has been some problems with attachments lately.. I'd just chalk it up to those.


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## Zale

I haven't touched my languages in a long time. There was a lot of stuff floating around in my head that I never put to paper. Now it's gone.
I might be able to add more (it's tied to my world-building) after this month is over. But not before!
The reason my first language looks familiar to you is because it's a lot like Quenya. I might write (or find) a longer sentence before the end of the week. Aesthetically, I actually prefer the other one, less developed as it is.


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## Lantarion

*Rómocantë and its subsidiary history etc. © Kasper Salonen*

'disappearing in foam' = _essailatá alnaënna_

essaila- [to disappear] < saila- [to appear] < root SAILA, 'occur, appear, happen'
-tá = -ing 
alnai/alnaë [foam] < Al- = white; nai/naë = water > amalnaë = snow = "sky-foam"
_Current_ illative case suffix = -nna

The whole sentence:

*Namanti náraiteltë elvahtai corávië, achatá toi theocaronti, essailatá alnaënna*

I think it looks good. 
Your turn Elgee.


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## HLGStrider

Don't you have to give me a sentence now? Or do I have to do my own?


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## Lantarion

Edit: Well ok, here's one:

*The mountain trembles and a storm has begun to rise*
I'll give it a shot tomorrow, or when I have time.


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## Lantarion

*Rómocantë and its subsidiary history etc. © Kasper Salonen*

Uh.. I guess I'll just go ahead then..
Like I said before, I haven't decided the final forms of anything yet (despite what I said in my first post in this thread  ).. But one new addition I've made is that the infinitive form of all verbs is to be [verb body + -ith]. The old word _ithan_ is the source; it means 'to undertake, to begin a task' (rather ironically descended from the root-word ANITH, 'stop, halt, end').
I had to invent the words for 'tremble' and 'rise', oddly enough; but here it is.

_Ócwa ambatassë, cë aráxo naléassa ocamá'ith._

_ócwa_ = mountain [root OC- = vertical height, growth]
verb-body: _ambata-_= to tremble [root ANAMB- = tottering, tripping; unstable]
_-ssë_ = third person, object/creature present tense singular suffix
_cë / ca_ = and (under work, may change)
_aráxo_ = storm [root (H)ARAX = fierce]
verb-body: _naléa-_ = to begin [roots AMAN = awake, and ALITH = start]
_-assa_ = third person, object/creature perfect (past) tense singular suffix 
verb-body: _ocamá-_ = to rise [roots OC- and AMAN]


----------



## HLGStrider

Be patient! I'm looking for my notes!


Where are those notes? I don't believe I don't have a word for mountain. ..I strictly remember having a character once whose last name meant mountain. I couldn't have done that withoutl. . .

I Lacor (the mountain. . .I had to make it up. . .my old word might have been perryncor. ..Let me see. . .

I have two words for tremble: kazee and ebzee, one is to tremble from hurt or weakness, the other from fear. . .I'll go with ebzee, the fear one.

I lacor ebzee dun i gareperryn

gareperryn is storm, basically strong sky.

I lacor ebzee dun i gareperryn ahn 

ah is my word for begining as a noun. It's more of an idea than a word, however. 

Striah-to become tall, to rise or grow.

_I lacor ebzee dun i gareperryn ahn striah._

That's my final verdict. 

Ee la-cor eb-zee doon ee gair-pair-in ah-n stry-uh.

I'm a bit incosistant in my use of English letters. I'll try and write it out in my letters and scan it for you.


----------



## Lantarion

Sorry if I'm impatient, it's nice to have started working on these again! 
Heh yeah it is pretty inconsistant.. For example you have different values for the letter 'I'.. But I suppose it's hard to write the language out in the latin alphabet.
I have a script too, which I suppose is close to its final form.. I might put up some writing at some point in the future, but scanners are hard to come by.. 
If somebody could give the next sentence.. No rush though, I'll learn to be patient. 

PS: This thread is open for everybody; and I'm sure there are others besides Elgee, Zale and myself who have languages of their own..


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## HLGStrider

They studied the tongues of ancient men. 


That's a sentence for us. . .and it isn't tongues as in the things in your mouth. . .I just thought I should add that disclaimer.


----------



## Lantarion

LOL yeah many years ago when I first read the LotR and came across the word 'tongues' I got a very unpleasant mental image..  
Hmm ok I'll give this a whirl.

I thought I had a word for 'to study', but it turns out it was for 'to learn'.. ALmost the same, but I need a new word anyway.. It would be of the same root, so the new verb-body for 'to study' is _santa-_.
_Cantio_ is one word for 'language', not all that poetic but it'll do for now; plural _cantioi_.
I take it 'men' here means the gender not the race, in which case 'man' is _hiron_ (from the root HIRIC, 'to hunt'), plural _hiróni_; adding the genetive suffix to that we get _hirónimwa_, 'of men'.
The word for 'ancient' I happen to have, it is _icárië_, plural _icáriën_; adding the secondary genetive-suffix we get _icariénon_, 'of ancient (pl)'; note that the emphasis on the vowel has moved from the 'a' to the 'e'.
The singular genetive of _icárië_ would be '_icariëmwa_' or something similar.
But this is one mode of Rómocantë; personally I prefer neither way more than the other, but in the simpler mode 'of ancient men' would be: _hirónimwa icáriën_.

*Santahti cantioi hirónimwa icariénon.*

This isn't a final form, because I still have to figure out more precise conjugations of adjectives.. But this is it in light of my current notes.


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## HLGStrider

> I take it 'men' here means the gender not the race


I was using it in the sense of race, actually, but I general use the word men as opposed to people or humans. It just sounds better. 

I think my culture behind my language uses men the same way: Malt is either men or humans. 

I don't have a word for the race of men.

Taredu . . .

Off the top of my head, I don't think I have a word for study either. . .I'll be back.


----------



## Zale

I can do this one! I have a past tense. It is sort of general-purpose simple past ("he ate") and imperfect ("he was eating"), determined by context (or was… I might have to change that).
Anyway: verb-subject-object.

Verb root (to study) = setar
To conjugate in 3rd person plural, prefix lan- (or lin-, but I’ll go with French and use male for mixed)
To conjugate in past tense: replace –ar with –ella (Like spanish double L)
So: Lansetella (I think adding assimilation at this point would be copying Quenya, even if it does sound better).
The tongues = es akasana. "es" is the definite article (or "e", depending on the next word). "a" is the genitive (originative) case prefix, and –na is the plural marker.
There is no of: the language is agglutinating (or maybe inflective) rather than isolating.
"Ancient men" is simple: from emubo cor (ancient man) to emubo ecoro; adding the originaive prefix again (different for the "originator") and the plural to man (root cor).

So we have: Lansetella es akasana emubo ecoro.

The other one: I have a past tense, a word for "language", the relevant cases, but none of the rest. I can’t believe I haven’t got a word for "man" (race).
I’ll make the rest up.
Here we are:

Almetha neth seran tatho lan la teranos

Hmm. This second one doesn’t sound right. I’ll have to tinker.

PS - in "emubo" the u should have double dots (umlaut in German), but I don't know how.


----------



## Lantarion

It should be _emübo_?! Sorry but that sounds really odd to me.. In Finnish the exact same sound is given with the vowel 'y', and at least to me it doesn't fit.. 

I like the second example here a lot more, it's like Greek, Latin and Quenya in one! 
And if the 'll' is to be pronuonced as in Spanish, does that mean that the word could also be spelt '_lanteseya_', or even with two 'y's?

Looks excellent and sounds complicated.  Good job. 

When Elgee translates this sentence as well I think you could suggest the next sentence; but not before.


----------



## HLGStrider

_"Men are interested in what women have to say," countered Chris, 27, "as long as it involves one of the following: Our favorite sport, our favorite activity or your naked body. For example, many men would find it extremely interesting if a woman said, 'A couple of years ago, I got so drunk that I showed up nude to a football game.'_

I just found that doing random reading online. I think that sentence should be the next one we translate. ..though I don't think I have a word for football game. . .


Where art I? OH! There I art!

Taredu glacair-am 'i sonairn 'oh eacas malt.

Eacas I'm not too crazy about, but I can't think of any thing better using the root old and time. . .ea and cas.


----------



## Zale

When I'd finished the (rough) phonology of that language I thought: Sindarin with a hint of mossy brook. Ish. I hadn't noticed the Greek influence, but you're right, it is there.
I think two 'l's looks better, but of course it doesn't make a difference in its own alphabet - there's only the one, and it fits.

Next sentene: err, here's a poetic one:

"Her hair gleamed in the dying sunlight, dazzling me through my tears."

No complex grammar, but should be fun for inflexive people.


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## Lantarion

LOL Elgee, that was a funny sentence even in English! 
But too difficult *dies*. 
Zale I'll try that tomorrow; but it's 02:26 right now.. So I'll try it "later today".


----------



## HLGStrider

_Indijee _. . .can't remember hair or gleamed. . .shine would be lil however. . .​_Indijee _hair_ lil-am 'yi i _. . .

dying somehow involves the root rim and . . .let's see. . .
_Indijee _hair _lil-am 'yi i rimifor la-twifa-lil, _

I need to research a little more on dazzling. . .me is per. . .through is 'shen. My is Perjee. . .tears again, research. Something involving civi and eb, I believe.


----------



## Lantarion

Ugh don't have the strength to start the sentence now.. Soon though.


----------



## Zale

Actually I can't do it either: not enough vocabulary.
I have slain us all via our incompetence...
Watch this space.


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## Lantarion

Zale said:


> I have slain us all via our incompetence...


LOL 
I think we should try it, it would help us a lot to get some more words and tenses kicked around.


----------



## Rhiannon

...My language is _so_ unsophisticated. But it dates from when I was twelve, and hasn't been worked on in...a couple of years? With a very small, sporadic vocabulary because my friends and I mostly just made up words as we needed them (I wrote an apology to my friend in it, so we have a word for grief, five words for love, some greetings, and several animal names, but no word for 'brother').


----------



## Turtle

My Language:
Suga, to tui?
Hello, How are you?


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## Lantarion

Hi Turtle, thanks for resurrecting the thread! 
That looks good! But what we've been doing here is that we've been practicing more complex sentences, for practice and grammar construction. The current sentence, which ew'veapparently gotten stuck on  is 


> "Her hair gleamed in the dying sunlight, dazzling me through my tears."


I'd love to see more complex and varied examples of your language! What do you call it, if anything? 

PS: I will have more time these days, for the rest of the week, for my own endeavours, because the Finnish high school (the system of which I'm not in, just in the same school..) has its test-week now and my IB class has only an huor or two of school per day.  So I'll try to get round to inventing more words soon.

Oh and welcome to TTF, Turtle!


----------



## Turtle

It is called Mogit. Mo being gods, and git being language, so it is translated as Language of the Gods.

So far it has a small Vocabulary.


----------



## Zale

The good thing about a small vocabulary: you can make it up as you go along! No roots to tie you to particular sounds that you might not like.
Even I haven't my sentence yet. Does anyone want to throw an easier one in?


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## Lantarion

*All linguistic info below (c) Kasper Salonen 2004*

I think we should just shorten the sentence, as it's causing problems to begin with . Maybe _"Her hair gleamed in the dying sunlight"_ would suffice.
But I think it's important that we try this, at least for me it would be a breakthrough!  
SO I'll go off and start working on this, I'll edit this post a little later.. 

EDIT: 
Well! It's astonishing what twenty minutes of uninterrupted, diligent philology can earn you!  I added three or four new words to my vocab, and actually hurdled this frightening sentence. (At least the shortened one) 
So:


> Her hair gleamed in the dying sunlight


'hair' = _hestë_ from root HESTË, 'hay'
'her' / female possessive suffix = _-wë_ < _aiwë_ = woman
'sunlight, daylight' = (old form) _ilya / ilyë_, (proper form) _arya / aryë_, from root ILYA, 'daylight'
'to gleam / to shine' = _tilya_ < root ILYA
'in' / inessive suffix = _-nnë_
'dying' = _helératá_ < _heléra'ith_ = to die < _elérë_ = end (n.)
Now I haven't decided whether the case suffixes should be continued into the accompanying adjective(s) of a noun, which is how it's done in Finnish, so I'll include one which dioes and one which doesn't.
The above withstanding, here is the sentence in Rómocantë.


> _Hestéwë tilyaissë aryannë helératá_


OR (I favour this latter one)


> _Hestéwë tilyaissë aryannë helératannë_



 
It would be interesting to see what all your respective languages would make this sentence look like, and I think we should all attempt this before moving on to another one. 
I might even attempt the second part of the original sentence, if I'm feeling especially adventurous.


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## Turtle

> Her hair gleamed in the dying sunlight


 In Mogit,
Maty tecanoy Heta gonet motaky jaby.


----------



## Rhiannon

All right, here's a rough version:

"Her hair gleamed in the dying sunlight"

_Daien estla ai'niainna ita ei sakreina neh'baine'lia_ 

_Daien_ (her) _estla_ (hair) _ai_' (in the past) _niainna_ (gleamed/reflected light) _ita_ (as/while/in) _ei_ (the) _sakreina_ (sun/sunlight) _neh'baine'lia_ (not-being-slowly)

daien - her(s)
estla - hair
ai - prefix ‘in the past’ ie ed ending
ennia - reflection
nia - prefix ‘reflection of’
reina - light
niainna - gleam = reflected light
ita - at/as/while (a place/this spot/point in time); also is/present depending on context
ei - a/the; object
Sak (sah-k) - prefix; greatest
Sakreina - the sun (‘greatest light’)
neh - no (negative prefix)
baine - state of being 
aishlia - slowly
lia - slow (suffix - restrained, restricted, controlled ie a movement)


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## Lantarion

Wow Rhiannon that sounds really beautiful! It has such a Celtic ring to it, I love the way it sounds both 'Elvish' and more Germanic at the same time. And your linguistic reasoning, or use of your language, is similar to mine in a way; anyway it looks and sounds brilliant great job! 
What is your language called by the way?


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## Turtle

It does sound beautiful


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## Rhiannon

Aw, thanks! I was thinking it sounded really rough and long after both of yours, but I am proud of myself for turning out a sentence.  
My language doesn't really have a name at the moment...when I was thirteen I called it Ancialekt. Which I now hate, but haven't come up with anything else because I abandoned the world the language belongs to for a few years. But it's been reincarnated


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## Lantarion

Ancialekt! Not bad, it seems to be English thuogh: ancient+dialect?  
Maybe you could give it a poetic name in the langauge itself; one of my languages is called _Háth'Ei_, which means 'Created Pattern' (or rather 'Pattern-Created'). Something like that would really suit that language of yours; something like 'Stone-song' (haha, Gondolin.. )


> Aw, thanks! I was thinking it sounded really rough and long after both of yours


OMG! Highest praise!! Thank you so much. 
And it doesn't sound rough in the negative use of the word, you just use some harsh sounds now and again. For the most part it sounds wonderfully flowing, if a little complex.


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## Turtle

> For the most part it sounds wonderfully flowing, if a little complex


I love things that are complex!


> dazzling me through my tears


Caboit ia gopak yeimas ia.


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## Ireth Telrúnya

Are you all philologists?


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## Turtle

> Are you all philologists?


I'm not, why if I may ask?


----------



## Rhiannon

> Ancialekt! Not bad, it seems to be English thuogh: ancient+dialect?


Yup. I wasn't a terribly subtle thirteen year old...:roll eyes:



> Maybe you could give it a poetic name in the langauge itself; one of my languages is called Háth'Ei, which means 'Created Pattern' (or rather 'Pattern-Created'). Something like that would really suit that language of yours; something like 'Stone-song' (haha, Gondolin.. )


I've been thinking about that. In March my new project (when my novel-writing project is finished) is going to be world-building, and I'll be doing a lot of these sort of things. Once I have a cultural background maybe a new name will suggest itself (is there a thread like this one for world building? or could we start one? One of the reasons none of the stories I tried to write when I was younger ever took off was because I was always getting stuck on how the government should work...of course, my medieval-esque world ended up with a matriarchal democratic monarchy, so things were just weird to start with. If we had a place to talk the problems out maybe it would help. This is a really really long parenthetical...now back to your regularly scheduled post ) In April I hope to start a new novel, an actual fantasy this time, with the world background already set out so that I don't get stuck on it. 



> Are you all philologists?


I'm not, though I wish I were; I have the interest, but not backed up with actual study :rolls eyes: I love language, but I can't speak any other than English (though I do enjoy flipping through my small Welsh dictionary). 



> dazzling me through my tears


Mm, this half could be some work...


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## Turtle

> I love language, but I can't speak any other than English (though I do enjoy flipping through my small Welsh dictionary).


LOL. I studied French, German, Japanesse, Pali and Egyptain Hieroglyphs


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## Lantarion

Ireth Telrúnya said:


> Are you all philologists?


I like to consider myself one, but hardly professionally. 
Hey good luck with those writing plans, it's great of you to sort of try and schedule it all out, I can never do that.. 

Haha, Turtle you said you had a small vocabulary, and yet you are able to translate that sentence without any trouble! 
Languages which have influenced my own are Finnish, Quenya, Spanish and partially Latin; also what tiny bit I've heard of Greek, I aim for similar phoneticity in Rómocantë.
I'd really like to learn Egyptian, just for the sake of it.. I know some Cantonese Chinese (oh yeah that has influenced me too ), and I'm thinking of learning Japanese as well.
Turtle that's a pretty wide range of languages! Where are you from, originally and at the moment? 

PS: I'll work out that second part of the sentence tomorrow, promise!


----------



## Rhiannon

I can say 'my name is...', 'I love...', and 'I don't understand' in French (this after two years in high school  Forgot it all), I can say 'where is the toilet?', 'I eat cats', 'my cat is very good', and 'hello/goodbye/good morning' in Japanese (after living there for three years), and 'good morning' and 'good night' in Welsh. I'll probably take French again when I start college, though, depending on what's available. 

What I would really like is to learn Welsh. Just for the sake of it. 



> Hey good luck with those writing plans, it's great of you to sort of try and schedule it all out, I can never do that..


It started out as an exercise in discipline, because I have never, ever finished anything longer than ten pages. The things that I've written longer than that are all languishing about, incomplete. So if I can finish this weird, bizarre, deeply flawed novel I've started, then maybe in April I can finish a better novel...I'm full of delusions of grandeur. 

<edit>

ah-ha! I have done it!

"dazzling me through my tears"
_reina'kar mi anesa mien as'neihae_

mi - I/me
mien - mine ('en' possessive suffix)
nei - life/life force/soul
hae - have/own/contain
neihae - water = contains life
asrael - sorrow, grief
as - prefix 'sorrowful/sad'
as'neihae - tears = sad water ('e' makes plural, omitted on words already ending in 'e')
etnesa - transparent
nesa - through (root)
anesa - through (word)
etna - sight
kar - suffix (feeling/idea/quality); ‘better’ or ‘improved’
reina'kar - dazzle = better light

Now...how to do compound sentences...eek...


----------



## Lantarion

Rhiannon said:


> mi - I/me
> mien - mine ('en' possessive suffix)
> nei - life/life force/soul
> hae - have/own/contain
> neihae - water = contains life
> asrael - sorrow, grief
> as - prefix 'sorrowful/sad'
> as'neihae - tears = sad water ('e' makes plural, omitted on words already ending in 'e')
> etnesa - transparent
> nesa - through (root)
> anesa - through (word)
> etna - sight
> kar - suffix (feeling/idea/quality); ‘better’ or ‘improved’
> reina'kar - dazzle = better light


I *love* your reasoning here! Really poetic and wonderful! 
NOTE: Translation to come later..


----------



## Turtle

> Where are you from, originally and at the moment?


The United States.  


> What I would really like is to learn Welsh. Just for the sake of it.


I want to learn Welsh too, as well as Gaelic.


----------



## Lantarion

*All linguistic info below (c) Kasper Salonen 2004*

Right here we go. 


> dazzling me through my tears


to dazzle = _arixa_ < root (H)ARAX, 'fierce'
dazzling = _arixatá_
me = _io, iô_; accusative, 'me' = _iôn_
through = _ikei_ < roots IX-, 'cut', (H)EI, 'made, crafted'
[one word for] tears = _sannai_ < _sána_= 'eye' (plural for 'eye = _sáni_), from root SANÂR, 'pool of water'; and _nai_= water
my = _-rë_ <--- for now anyway

_Iôn arixatá ikei sanairë_ 

The whole thing:


> Hestéwë tilyaissë aryannë helératá, Iôn arixatá ikei sannairë



This is preliminary, it may or may not stay the same.


----------



## Rhiannon

> I love your reasoning here! Really poetic and wonderful!


*blush* Thank you!

Seeing other people's versions is really neat. I'm enjoying this. Are we ready for a new sentence?


----------



## Lantarion

Zale hasn't translated the sentence yet.. Perhaps we should wait.


----------



## Zale

Right! After much hard work, here it is. Sorry for having taken so long, but my list-of-things-to-do sort of got swamped recently.

Language the first:Harella li enara pelen alu kir eferte salkado, tasulare keri emolessa.
(Lit. Her hair gleamed because of the light from the Sun, dazzling me through my tears.)

Language the second: Lan rin thes narlan ferthis lisemo, lan ema siran shul neth e raselin.
(Much more complicated. Initial (in a clause) lan means no object; e refers to an aforementioned subject; or I'd have "me through my tears of mine dazzling"; unwieldy and ridiculous. I've not included "dying" here because I'm not sure how to derive active participles from verbs yet.)

I'm sort of an amateur philologist, but only in my spare time; most of the time I'm a physicist. I also speak fluent French (by virtue of having lived there) and a little bit of German. I used to know some Spanish as well, but I've forgotten it now. My sister is studying French and German at university, so when she's home it's poured in both ears .

I wish I'd gone a bit more inflexive; I seem to have a lot of words cluttering sentences up.


----------



## Rhiannon

Lantarion said:


> to dazzle = _arixa_ < root (H)ARAX, 'fierce'
> dazzling = _arixatá_


Ooh, I forgot to say, Lantarion, how interesting I thought this was. When I was trying to come up with a background for 'dazzle', 'fierce' didn't occur to me, but I like that idea.


----------



## Lantarion

Heh yeah it was the first thing that came to mind, thank you for the compliment!  I will be re-doing at least the word 'dazzle', because in this sense it has the same meaning as 'to blind'.. And (H)ARAX doesn't actually mean 'fierce' in the animalistic sense of the word, it's more like 'painful strength' or a sort of striking force.. The word for 'storm', _aráxo_, is more the sort of thing that would be derived straight from this root.
I don't have any single root where I could get the word 'light' from, but I'll be using that idea when I make the proper word up.

Ok! Here is the next sentence:



> "Follow me, for I will lead you into the valley!"



This is pretty hard for me actually, but it's a good thing. No pain no gain, is what they say.


----------



## Zale

I've just realised that both my sentences are all wrong. Of course there's an object! It's me!

Here's the corrected versions, with reasoning:

To shine (here gleam): har-
Past tense suffix: -ella, so harella
3rd person singular (female) pronoun: li
Hair: nara
Case prefix: e- (indicating origin, i.e. hair-of-hers), so enara
Because of: pelen
sunshine: alu kir eferte (lit. "light from the Sun")
Dying: salkado (from "Salkar", to kill/die, and the active participle ending -ado).
To blind (here dazzle): sular-
1st person singular prefix: ta-
Present tense suffix: -e, so tasulare
(No "me" necessary, 'cos I prefixed it to the verb)
Through (think "a travers"): keri
tears: molessa (from water, essa, and grief, mola)
Case prefix: e- (same as before), so emolessa.

Finished article: Harella li enara pelen alu kir eferte salkado, tasulare keri emolessa.

Next one:
Lan (because no object in this clause)
rin - 3rd p.s. pronoun (female) in 'possessive' case
thes - hair
narlan - in the presence of, because of
ferthis - sunshine (sun is fertha)
lise - to shine
Past tense (recent) ending: -mo, so lisemo
through - siran
shu - tear
Plural: -(e)l, so shul
neth - indicates origin, here of the tears from 'me' (which is also the object). Very confusing.
ema - 1st p.s. pronoun, in "objective" case
lan (object-subject separator)
e - referring back to her hair
rase - to dazzle
Present (is -ing) tense suffix: -lin, so raselin

So: Lan rin thes narlan ferthis lisemo, siran shul neth ema lan e raselin.

That's a bit complex. The 2nd part sort of reads as "through tears of me (her-hair-gleaming-in-the-sunshine (quite a lot for the letter e to do)) dazzling". I might have to revise that again, but at least it's compact. Almost.


----------



## Zale

Two in a row! Seeing as I'm behind I'll do this one now as well. If it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count.

Kamelare, sau tastilarisse ka saniki e tyechel! (Not very aesthetic.)

Kamelare (lit. you-follow): from melar (to follow), with subject (2nd p.s.p.) 'ka' prefixed and present tense marker -e.
sau - "in order to, for"
tastilarisse: estilar,to lead, with 1st p.s.p. (ta) subect as an affix (complete with assimilation) and future tense marker -isse.
ka - you
saniki - (with)in; here, into
e - definitive article.
raichel - from "tyeche", valley (with 'ch' as the German ich-laut sound, not like in church) with accusative suffix -(e)l.

Ema lan ya thilin, pelan theran eya lan ma ise tesetera! (Hardly better.)

Ema - objective 1st p.s.p.
ya - 2nd p.s.p.
thilin - "follow" root thi-, present tense ending -lin
pelan - into
theran - forest (there is no definite article)
eya - objective 2nd p.s.p.
ma - 1st p.s.p.
ise - particle signifying intention (of leading me into the valley).
tesetera - root tese-, future tense marker -ter and 1st p.s. marker -a. I only have one "person" marker for verbs (1st person singular) - any other is made obvious by the subject.

I think both of these need serious revision.


----------



## Ireth Telrúnya

Well it certainly is not so easy to make up your own language..

I've studied Quenya a bit during these couple of days I've spend here.
Let's see if I remember anything...
Matinyë culuma. 
I culuma ná yávë.
I culuma ná culuina.
Harinyë culuinë culumar...


----------



## Rhiannon

Lantarion said:


> Heh yeah it was the first thing that came to mind, thank you for the compliment!  I will be re-doing at least the word 'dazzle', because in this sense it has the same meaning as 'to blind'.. And (H)ARAX doesn't actually mean 'fierce' in the animalistic sense of the word, it's more like 'painful strength' or a sort of striking force.. The word for 'storm', _aráxo_, is more the sort of thing that would be derived straight from this root.


That's really interesting, Lantarion. 

"Follow me, for I will lead you into the valley!"

_Hmmmm_....This could take some doing...


----------



## Turtle

> Follow me, for I will lead you into the valley


I have the first part: Terei ai (follow me)


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## HLGStrider

_Follow me for I will lead you into the valley._ . .

comes out as

_Shendenya per 'ix per shendches-es tare 'yi 'wen 'i secaclay._


I wanted to attach a picture of how it looks, but it looks like I'm over my quota, whatever that means. . .hmm.


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## Lantarion

LOL Thank you Elgee for remembering this old palce!  We have all been so utterly lazy with this, at least I have; I will try to get it translated ASAP, but schoolwork is slowly but surely piling up on me.. 
I promise I'll at least do "_Follow me_", for which I have no words.


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## Zale

And I thought you'd all given up... oh me of little faith...


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## HLGStrider

Well, then post you answer, Thomas!


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## Lantarion

Ok it seems now that I have so much schoolwork that I really won't be able to translate the sentence for a while.. The weekend is one possibility, fingers crossed eh. 
Other should also try it though.


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## Zale

Hey, I have schoolwork too. Results (from January exams) out tomorrow, so that might prompt me into harder graft.

PS - I have done the current sentence! About eight posts up.


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## HLGStrider

I'll give you all a new sentence: Oh where is my hairbrush?


Just kidding. . .

umm. . .

We've all been pretty mythological, so I'm going to be sensible and say,

"Good morning. How are you feeling?"


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## Zale

Sensible, eh? How am I meant to translate "to feel"? What a facetious word!

Give me a few days...


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## HLGStrider

Fine! I give you a phrase you can actually _use_ in real life and you sulk about it!


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## Lantarion

Hey it's a good idea! This is one that we should al be able to do, it's actually applicable in 'everyday life' within whatever context our languages are in! 
I promise I will try it at some point, when I'm not dying from work.


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## HLGStrider

For awhile I was thinking that I had the first part and that it was "Lel bree," but the more I think about it, Lel bree is more accurately good day than good morning and refers to the whole day from sun up to sun down. I do like the phrase Lel bree, however, just for its sound, so I'm going to have to argue with myself and figure out if my culture uses good day and good morning interchangeably.


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## Lantarion

I'm really confused abot the pronunciation of your language, Elgee! You write some words phonteically, and other in an English mode, especially using the '-ee' sound, which I would personally write either 'í' or 'ii'.. So would _Lel bree_ be pronounced [lell-brii]? It might actually look better written together like that, with a hyphen between. 
Hm, personally I do have a word for 'good' and for 'morning'.. But I don't want to just write 'good morning' like that, it would be more like an observation than a greeting! I also have a word for 'how', it's _onúo_ at the moment.. And I obviously have 'you are'; but my language is structured so differently from English in that sense, instead of "How you-are feeling?" it would have to be "How feel-you?".. I will work on this, it would be important to have handy.


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## HLGStrider

I make EVERYTHING I do confusing. It's a rule.

Truthfully, I'd have to use my letters to really make it make sense. . .and I can't understand how I can be Ee. It's very rarely ee in English.


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## Zale

Hang on - isn't "good morning" an idiom? Do I have to translate it literally, or can I make my own equivalent up?


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## HLGStrider

I suppose it is sort of an idiom, but I think I like it word for word. . .It's that way in Spanish and English anyway. . .You can do what you want.


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## Zale

I will.

Stelar es erafertel. Tyane kamalnare telad?

Lit. Enjoy the morning. Are you feeling well? Almost word for word!


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## Lantarion

Good morning. How are you feeling?

I was thinking of translating 'good morning' just as it is, and thus making it an observation not a greeting; but it is an idiom, so I think I'll make it a _little_ more special by adding the word 'good' to 'morning' into a single word.
_good_ = *ansa / ansë*
_morning_ (one sense) = *(a)rantë*

'Good morning' = *Ansarantë*

This second part is straightforward, it will just be shaped differently in my language than in English. It'll be: 'how [feel-you]', the latter being a single word meaning 'you feel'.
_how_ = *onúo* or *ónuo*
_to feel_ = *ása'ith* < root CHÂ, 'to strike', and root AN-, 'product of something' (this is one of many ways to express 'feeling', and a rather technical one; more will be invented later)
_you feel_ = *ásatai*

'How are you feeling? / How do you feel?' = *Onúo ásatai?*


Full sentence = _Ansarantë! Ónuo ásatai?_


Ahem, sorry this took so long to get to.. But it's done now, and my vocabulary is better for it. 
And I notice that my langauge is starting to sound more and more like Japanese.. A very good thing, because Japanese is one of the most amazing languages to hear being spoken. It's so fast! A lot like Finnish in that respect..


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## Rhiannon

Ka (kawh) - prefix; small; tame; smallest
Saketh (sah-keth) - day 
‘Thye’ - well; good (condition or state) 
Baine (bay-in-eh) - state of being, condition; be (also ‘am’ when combined with mi)
nie - You
Ka'saketh (little day) = morning

I don't have a word for 'how'--and I'm taking the stance that the people who speak my language always assume the best out of politeness, so;

Thye ka'saketh (Good morning/the morning is good)
Nie baine thye (You are well/you are in a good state of being)

_Thye ka'saketh! Nie baine thye?_


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## HLGStrider

_Lel bree. Cas tare say?_

Literally good day, which is a bit idiomatic. In my culture it means you are wishing them a good day which would be silly to say if the day was already half way up because by then they know if they are having a good day or not, so it should be used in the morning only. 

Cas is basically a sophisticated equivelent to huh? It's a question in a sound. Tare is you. Say is a statement of being. So "What are you?" would be a translation of this as well, but I sort of like what are you and how are you being reversible.


----------



## Rhiannon

I just realized I never did the other one; 

"Follow me, for I will lead you into the valley!"

mi - I/me
nie - You
neita - will, in the future, going to
aetna - come
lain - behind
hwaiet - because, for; a motivator or impulse (nota bene: also a bardic term signalling the beginning of a quest tale or adventure--a distinction between heroic stories and romances, which begin with _caraen_, a common endearement, here addressed to the audience or, alternatively, to the lady being honored by the tale)
medin - in, within (something enclosed) (nota bene: 'Medeat', meaning 'home' or 'place of belonging' is lit. 'within come', _aetna_ being come--'ae' and 'ea' becoming interchangable in compound words)
ei - a, the
aie - go
nial - ahead
aienial - lead (lit. 'go ahead of')
Ien - ours
baine - being
ienaine -- our being = earth
ka - tame
ka'ienaine - valley = tame/low earth

_Aetna lain mi, hwaiet mi neita aienial nie medin ei ka'ienaine_.

Come behind me, because I will go ahead of you in the valley. 

Or it could be _mi aienial nie nesa ei ka'ienaine_, 'I will go ahead of you through the valley'. 

I had the hardest time coming up with a word for 'valley'


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## Lantarion

Rhi I now realize that your language is like a mixture of Celtic and Quenya!  Beautiful stuff, really.. And the way you form the words is very poetic! 
But here your sentence translation is too ambiguous, IMO.. 'Going ahead' of something and 'leading' someone somewhere are completely different things. I realize that leading is basically going before somebody who is following you , and it is a very plausible way to express it. But in terms of the language itself, it is a little too broad. Perhaps a seperate word for 'lead' would be better? 

Hm, I should do that sentence too.. I will, fairly soon.


----------



## Rhiannon

Lantarion said:


> Rhi I now realize that your language is like a mixture of Celtic and Quenya!  Beautiful stuff, really.. And the way you form the words is very poetic!
> But here your sentence translation is too ambiguous, IMO.. 'Going ahead' of something and 'leading' someone somewhere are completely different things. I realize that leading is basically going before somebody who is following you , and it is a very plausible way to express it. But in terms of the language itself, it is a little too broad. Perhaps a seperate word for 'lead' would be better?



You're right, I'm not particularly happy with it either; I went around about it a bit, and decided that for the context of this sentence, 'going ahead' for 'lead' expressed what I wanted, but if I wanted to say 'lead' in a political or military sense it would definitely require a different word. I was looking at the sentence as someone offering to be a guide, which would be going before rather than being a leader--I'll have to think some more and come up with a variation that would be more suited to 'lead' in a 'real' sense.


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## HLGStrider

Ok, so who's going to give another sentence to translate. I'm truthfully out of inspiration.


----------



## Ireth Telrúnya

This is Tolkien, but if you want something to translate, here's a sentence:

I huan vanima yeldeva mantë neldë wilwarini


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## Lantarion

Actually Ireth this thread is for languages created by members, it has nothing to do with Quenya or Sindarin.. 
I only know some words from that.. 'I huan' is probably 'the dog', and 'wilwarini' is 'butterflies'..Other than that I'm lost. 

Ok here's a new sentence; it is a test to see the different ways people will present a complex term: *The archipelago was silent and dark*.


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## joxy

How would anyone know that a whole group of islands was *silent*?


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## Lantarion

It's a poetic phrase, I thought that was extremely obvious. 
Are you here to nitpick or to actually post a translation of that phrase?


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## HLGStrider

I dislike the word archipelago, so I refuse to have a word for it in my language. I'll just use something like chain or series of islands. . .Islands is Civibayt (this is one of the few words where I use the C as an S. Originally I was pronouncing it Kivibayt, but I didn't like that, and decided to do S) . . .


Ay is darkness as a noun. I can't remember the descriptive version. . .give me a day or two.


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## Ireth Telrúnya

Lantarion, I knew that this thread was about your own made-up languages...I just wanted to contribute something!

Yes, huan is dog and wilwarini is butterflies.


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## joxy

Lantarion said:


> It's a poetic phrase, I thought that was extremely obvious.


Complex, poetic?!
However: Bi tur-inisoidd distau ac gurm.
Next:
"My postilion has been struck by lightning".


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## Lantarion

joxy said:


> Complex, poetic?!


By 'complex' I meant a term which would need interpreting in the languages of a lot of people (e.g. as 'island-chain', 'broken-land' or something else); and by 'poetic' I meant non-realistic and descriptive, i.e. attributing states of being to things which normally would not be considered to possess them.
I didn't know you also had a language!  I would love to hear more about it, like its name for starters; and the custom here has been to break down the sentences into English and translate them bit by bit, so that others could see the reasoning behind it.. But do as you wish. 
Oh, and a new sentence isn't attempted before everybody has tried the previous one (unless people are inactive for a long time, as was the case recently).. 
But I just realized that I hate the word 'archipelago' as well..  But here's my translation.

_hacta, hactië_ = fractured, splintered
_tán_ = earth, land (Old term) < TAR, 'standing, steady'
_hactetáni_ = archipelago (one term; lower form is better)

island = _initán_ < INI, 'alone' + _tán_ (one term)
plural-suffix (in this context only); collective suffix = _-is_
*archipelago* = _initánis_

'(it) was' = _áhtë / ahtë_ < _Á'ith_ = to be

silent = _mínië_
dark = _noios_ (one form; irregular)
'and' (at the end of words, as in latin '-que') = _'ta_, _'wa_ or _'ca_ (haven't decided! )

*The archipelago was silent and dark* = _Initánis ahtë mínië noios'ta_


PS: I'd like to get an objective opinion of how this sounds/looks.. 
And by the way I was just looking through this thread, and it occurred to me that we have now successfully translated as many as *seven* full sentences! Well done to us!


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## HLGStrider

It looks hard to pronounce!


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## Rhiannon

I don't really find it hard to pronounce, but I'm probably pronouncing it all wrong  It looks very pretty, though, and I really love your reasoning, especially for _hactetáni_


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## Lantarion

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it. 
Rhi, I think if you're able to pronounce Celtic then this should be a piece of cake..  Just keep in mind that my language is completely phonetic, every single letter is pronounced, there is no such thing as a silent letter. E.g. in 'áhtë', the 'h' is pronounced instead of being left silent as it would be in English, and the 'a' is the one in 'aunt'. The only other thing is that the accent-mark ´ is used to show that that vowel is an elongated one. E.g. 'mínië' = [mee-knee-eh]. And I only use the ¨ above the letter 'e', to signify that it is voiced instead of silent. As Tolkien did, I believe! 

I'd love to see how you would translate this as Rhi (even though I am getting sick of the word 'archipelago' ), considering your poetic reasoning in creating words; the same for you Elgee!
I wonder if Zale is still around.. Zaaa-aaale??


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## joxy

Lantarion said:


> I would love to hear more about it, like its name for starters; and the custom here has been to break down the sentences into English and translate them bit by bit....


Thanks, and thanks for the explanation; I hadn't been around here before.
"Bi tur-inisoidd distau ac gurm" is in Tolcri, a Celtic dialect reserved for devotees of Tolkien!
bi - Was
tur - group
inis - island
oidd - plural form
distau - silent
ac - and
gurm - dark.

Only the "dd" needs defining - it's the voiced labeo-dental fricative.


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## Lantarion

joxy said:


> Only the "dd" needs defining - it's the voiced labeo-dental fricative.


 I'll take your word for it, shall I.. 
Hey thanks for the breakdown, it definitely has elements of both Celtic and Sindarin.. Did you develop it yourself? 
The name of it is also really nice, Tolcri.. It reminds me of one of the languages used in the sci-fi series 'Stargate SG-1', which was probably ancient Egyptian to a degree..
And wow I can't believe our words for 'island' are so similar!!


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## joxy

It's just the "th" in "the"!
Yes, it's original.
Ancient Egyptian -as in hieroglyphs?
Yes, that's a nice coincidence indeed. Mine is a straight lift from Celtic -
Irish: Inis(h)free - a real place-name that appears in poetry and song.
Welsh: Ynys Mon - the large island known in English as Anglesey.


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## Lantarion

Ah interesting!
Hah no I didn't mean hieroglyphs I meant the spoken language. The alien culture that speaks the dialect is supposedly of ancient Egyptian origin.
Ah the 'th' in 'the'.. Heh; Tolkien used 'dh' to indicate that, as I would.


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## joxy

Well, I suppose the hieroglyphs must have represented a spoken language, but I take your point about SG-2.
Irish and Scots Gaelic use dh, but Welsh has words in which a distinct h follows a distinct d, so it has to be different about that;
I follow the Welsh pattern!
Tolkien had a certain amount of interest in Welsh, and in its traditional stories, but of course he was much more interested
in Suomi and its epics - unfortunately I find your language far too daunting to be able to follow his example.


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## HLGStrider

Well, in my research I don't think I have a word yet for either chain or series, both of which were my original idea to use for that awful word that shall remain untyped. 

So, I'll have to take a bit more time.

I think I do have chain but it would mean as something used to control or tie down which isn't the right sense for this case.


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## Lantarion

Ok Elgee, have fun inventing though! 
Joxy, nice to see the word 'Suomi' used by a non-Finn!  Daunting eh.. Yes I suppose it does seem that way, and it is very hard to master if you don't start learning it as an infant.. _Hieno kieli se silti on!_  
Ah that's why it isn't 'dh'.. Interesting!


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## Zale

I am still around, but my lounge has just had the carpet changed, so everything had to be moved out. Unfortunately the PC was an early casualty, hence the delay. Anyway, to battle:

Archipelago: I went for simple, so translated "many islands" into a single word: island ->sereti, and many/lots -> tema-, so archipelago becomes "temasereti".

Was: to be is "ar", add (the appropriate) past tense marker to get "arella".

"Dark" is "zorad", or "zurad", from root "zo/zu" and adjectival marker –ad

Silent is "niserad", from "nisero" (silence) and -ad again.

Add in an accusative marker –l to archipelago, and ("en") and the definitive article ("e/es"), and we get:

Arella zorad en niserad e temaseretil.

Aren't we doing well? How about a multiple-clause sentence next?


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## Lantarion

Looks excellent Zale! Sounds like water falling on loose stones. 
Yeah a multi-phrased one would be nice; we had one very long one before (about waves crashing like giants etc.), but we should have another. 

Hmph, Elgee and Rhi haven't posted their translations.. Too busy, I suspect, as we all often are.


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## joxy

Zale, why does your subject take the objective suffix letter?


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## HLGStrider

Been one of those weeks where I've had no time to study or get a full nights sleep. . .


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## Zale

Good question, joxy. I suppose the answer is that my grammar is based on a whatever-I-feel-like-at-the-time sort of approach, because I'm not really a linguist (I'm actually a physicist, believe it or not).
I think I can get away with the fact that in this sentence the archipelago is actually sort of the object of the sentence as well, in that there is no well-defined object like in the sentence "Mary slapped Bob"; it's more like "Bob was slapped". Transitivity is a feature used only, as far as I know, by indo-european tongues (not that I speak any others). I was trying to get around it.
In my language, the verb is first in a phrase, then the subject, then the object. I only have the one here, so I suppose then that my sentence has no subject, which makes even less sense. Hmn. Maybe the word is being both.
I'm on holiday at the moment, so plenty of spare time.


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## joxy

A sentence can manage happily without an object, but it has to have a subject - otherwise what is it talking about?!
Now you tell me about string theory! Not in this thread though


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## Zale

Is that an absolute rule, or just a convention? What's to distinguish between the object and the subject in such a sentence? If there's two nouns to be dealt with then yes, clearly one has to be the subject and the other the object. If there's just the one, though: the archipelago is not _doing_ anything; then again, I suppose it's not having anything done to it either. At this point I start to wonder if we're dealing with adjectives being difficult here, not verbs. (At this point I also have to have a drink.) Not only is it an intransitive sentence (I think), but it's expressly predicative as well. Confused? I am. At the end of it all, what does it matter what 'real' languages do? Isn't the point of making up your own that you can do what you like with it? (Not that you're wrong, either: we could argue round this all day.)
PS - are you serious about string theory? 'Cos I will! (But only by PM,because of Lantarion's obvious disapproval .)
PPS - are you a linguist? Or just someone curious about everything, like me?


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## HLGStrider

Beware of the Lanty that edits in the night!

MU HA HA HA HA HA HA

Um. . . let's see. . .

The 
i
Archipel. . .I HATE THIS WORD!

Cor means alone. . .I wonder if I could take the word for together and have the translation be islands together. . .nah. . .I don't like that. . .

I just went through my entire list of roots and found nothing that works. . .I need more roots!

Which means I have the fun of making up a root from nowhere! Oooh, the glee!. . .Glee is a nice sound, but I don't know what it would have to do with a series or chain. You'd think I'd at least have a word for many. . .

Wait, Haa is one of the roots I have yet to discover a meaning for and I sort of like it. . .haa. . .said like laughing but you hold the aaaa for awhile. ..

haa means things in a group or belonging, a sense of community, etc. 

Ok, that needs work but it will do for now.

_I haa-civibayt say-am anair dun ey. _


----------



## joxy

Zale said:


> What's to distinguish between the object and the subject in such a sentence?


The subject is what the sentence is talking about, so every sentence must have a subject, otherwise it wouldn't be a sentence.
It doesn't have to have an object.
The sky IS blue - that's it. The verb doesn't actually make the sky DO anything.
Sometimes the subject IS doing something to something else; that gives the sentence an object, either direct or indirect or both.
I GIVE the ball to the boy - subject/verb/direct object/indirect object.
If you have a suffix to indicate that the word is the object, the "accusative case" as classicists would have it, but then you attach that suffix to the subject, you're defeating your own objective!
I'm certainly curious about a lot of things, including languages and linguistics as Tolkien was, but I'm not a professional in them as he was. As an accountant I have a more mathematical mind, though there are links - if not strings! - between the two disciplines!


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## joxy

HLGStrider said:


> Beware of the Lanty that edits in the night!
> Archipel. . .I HATE THIS WORD!


Indeed!
Have you ever heard anyone actually SAYING you-know-what? I haven't.


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## Lantarion

> Beware of the Lanty that edits in the night!


Kyehehee.. 
Oh I don't disapprove in that way Zale, it's just it wouldn't be nice to be going off-topic in such an interesting thread! 
Elgee that both looks and sounds wonderful! And good reasoning, I really like the simplistic structuring of your words. 
Ooh my root for 'community, something in common' is quite close to yours; it's _KÂNI_, and an offshoot of that is the early word _HÂ(NA)_, 'meeting place, symbol of government'.  Spookeh..

I think everybody here is just curious and somewhat involved in amateur linguistics, I think the only true linguists of TTF are probably jallan and Cian.. But it's really nice that an interest like this has been sparked in so many by Tolkien's own passion! 

Eh.. The only place I've seen THE WORD used is in travel brochures of Finland, written in only adequate English, describing the thousands of islands around here. It is a dumb term to use commonly, but I think in its own context it works.


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## joxy

While we're on the subject of that interesting feature of the geography of Finland, do you all know the Tolkien poem that actually *includes* the word?! There's been another thread about it recently.


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## Zale

If anyone's read the Earthsea Quartet, archipelago is used extensively there. I don't mind it.

And joxy, while we're at it, do I have to stick to traditional subject/object definitions? As it happens, for my language the accusative was designed to mark the object (to make it clear which noun was object and which was subject) when no other case was applied to it. Accusative happens to be the 'existing' case which almost corresponds to mine, so I used that label.

I of course was only joking about introducing string theory into this thread... Only being an A-level student (for the moment) I only know the very basics about it. Anyway, I don't think I could get away with calling it linguistics, no matter how hard I tried.


----------



## HLGStrider

So now that we've discussed the awful word, how about a new sentence?


Joxy wants clauses. How about this one?

Santa Claus got stuck in the chimney.

No no no, bad joke. . .um. . .

Late in the spring I went to the mountain to see my cousin, the weaver.

I don't have a lot of those words. . .but might as well figure it out.


----------



## joxy

A-levels, Zane? So you're in the UK also?
It's a bit hard on you that they push string theory on to you as early as that though. You've hardly had time to get through all those bosons and quarks already.  
The "case" thing isn't really about linguistic definitions; it's about the ordinary use of words. If there's only one thing in a sentence, such as that archipelago, it must be the subject, in the ordinary sense, of the sentence, and the sentence then doesn't have an object; so, if you give that subject the object "case" ending, then you've destroyed your own object*ive*, of specifying *objects*!


----------



## Lantarion

Elgee that is a wonderful sentence!! It would be excellent to get that translated.. But I only have like two or three of those words!! So it'll take me a long time to do this.. 
And in the meanwhile Rhiannon still hasn't posted her translation.. But I think we can move on regardless.
Now all I need is to create the root, the composition and the full form of the words 'late, spring, to go, cousin and weaver'.  Come to think of it I don't even have a proper word for 'to see'!  How pitiful.


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## Zale

Well, can't argue with that, joxy. I'll leave the -l off next time, should I? This next one might take me a while because I don't have any of the words beyond the obvious, and if I come up with a lot at once they all sound the same.
The hardest A level physics gets is particle accelerators and a touch of Einstein's energy-matter equivalence (E=mc^2 an' all). Not a quark or boson in sight. What stage are you at in our fabulous education system?

Whose chimney?


----------



## Rhiannon

Rhiannon is still staring at the word 'archipelago' with a glazed, pained look on her face. Her left eye is twitching slightly, and her mouth gapes open. Her overall appearance is one of stunned idiocy, coupled with a certain amount of sheer terror. 

She's also been a bit busy lately, with speeches and trying to find another job and all kinds of things that aren't half as interesting as fictional languages...


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## joxy

HLGStrider said:


> Joxy wants clauses. How about this one?
> Late in the spring I went to the mountain to see my cousin, the weaver.


Thanks HLGS; do I? Yes, there's another nice poetic one, and, by chance, it provides a rhyme in translation:
Hwar a gwanwin es I a'r manadd, an gweled va cevnder, ar gwehadd.

Zale, yes, keep that useful -l for things that have things done to them. 
They told us how much energy there is in mass before sixth form, but I know about bosons only from S Hawking and his pals!


----------



## Zale

Sorry, but it might take me a while to get this one done, 'cos I've got loads to do this week. Please feel free to continue without me: I'll catch up all in one go when I have the time.


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## Rhiannon

_Cariena'kar neise-aieth_, Lantarion! A very belated happy birthday, since every time I tried to post my computer did something temperamental--like blow up, or freeze. 

cariena (care-ee-in-uh) - joy; related to both _caraen_, which means 'love' or 'dearest' (often used as an endearment, or referring to something of personal value), and _ariena_, which means 'thankful'.
cariena’kar - joyful; _kar_ as a suffix meaning 'better' or 'improved'--'better joy' = joyful (joy in the present moment being better than joy as an abstract idea).
Neise (nee-es) - birth; related directly to the word _nei_, for life force or soul.
Aieth (ay-eth) - day; I have multiple words for 'day'. 'Saketh' refers specifically to the hours of daylight, 'sak' being a prefix that means 'great'--the word for night is 'kareth', with the prefix 'kar', which means roughly 'greatest of the small' (referring to the moon over the stars). Aieth is a more general word, referring to the entire twenty four hour period, usually going from one sunrise to the next, and its plural is 'eieth'. 

Ta-da! I may have to give up on getting caught up on the last few sentences any time soon, and hope to get back to it next month or so, when graduation will be over and done with--my speech is over, and classes are almost over, but now I have a job. I just can't win, it seems.


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## Lantarion

_Ainúaquan!_ = Thank you! 

Thought that up on the spot.. 
_ainuá'ith_ = to thank < root HAI = greeting, hail; praise, thank + NUÊ = to go out of one's way to do, or express; show great appreciation; great dedication
_ainúaqua_ or _ainúqua_ = I thank
_-(a)n_ = you (as an accusative subject of a verb, like Spanish 'te' as in 'Te amo')

This is just one form, I think I'll keep this form of 'thank you' as a 'full' or more proper form, and invent a short, one or two syllable one for common use. 

And thank you indeed! You gave me inspiration to invent a new word and two new roots!


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## Rhiannon

You're welcome


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## HLGStrider

I wanted to apologize for neglecting this for so long. I promise I'll be on it soon. I've just actually gotten caught up in my writing again for the first time in ages!


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## Lantarion

I concur with Elgee, not only have I been pressed for time but this sentence requires my inventing practically every word in it!  So have patience..


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## HLGStrider

> Late in the spring I went to the mountain to see my cousin, the weaver.


 
_Anfin 'i atay 'oh ahtrev-fab, per arzee-am 'i lacor glacair perjee kintceer, 'i dergorfor._

I had a long post explaining how I came to this but I lost it and it is too late to think enough to retype it . ..brother, I'm tired. Maybe I'll offer some explanations later.


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## HLGStrider

OK. . .more breakdown of my sentence.




> _Anfin 'i atay 'oh ahtrev-fab, per arzee-am 'i lacor glacair perjee kintceer, 'i dergorfor._


Late translated better "Near the end of" which is the literal translation of "_Anfin 'i atay 'oh._" Simple enough there. Word for word, in fact. Spring was harder. I didn't have any words for seasons and have not yet worked out a calender. However, I figured that they would have basically the same seasons, divided by weather paterns: a time of birth and growth, a time of maturation and warmth, a time of age and harvest, and a time of death and cold. Therefore I knew I'd have to do a word with a prefix for each season. I picked the words Birth, Youth, Age, and Death.

Death= _Rimi_
Age= _Ea_
Youth= _Swe_
Birth. . . the one that equals spring was of course the one I hadn't invented a word for yet.  I had a word for birth as in "to give birth to" (_Ceer_ meaning basically to mother) but not as in "to be born" and that is what I wanted. I came up with _ahtrev_, to begin life. I'm not crazy about using trev in a word I would prefer to be "softer." The root trev has always indicated energy to me. However ah sort of softens it. I recognized that these changes were mostly weather related, and so I chose to use the term for sky (_Fab_) for the shared root. Rain is sky water _(Fabicivi_)_._ Wind is sky's voice _(Fabaira_)_. _etc. 

_Arzee_ means as a verb to go to, so the to is implied, leading straight to _Lacor_ or mountain (Big is La. Rock is cor. . .very intelligent word, Big Rock). _Glacair _is of course an integer. . .Integer? Is that how you spell that? I only used that word in Spanish class. To implied in other words. It means "see." 

_Kintceer _was also a cheet. It doesn't literally translate "cousin" but rather "relative on my mother's side." _Kintseer _would be relative on my father's side. I decided that it was a vague term rather than a scientific one. Cousin is used pretty casually in a lot of old texts. _Der _is the root for cloth or covering. _Gorfor_ means to make. _Dergorfor_ therefore is one who makes cloth. Weaver. . .whew. . .that took long enough.


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## HLGStrider

Well, I think we should get a new sentence started on. I suggest a very simple one:

_When will we be welcomed home?_

I like it because it seems sad and could be part of a song of exiles.


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## HLGStrider

To start off this phrase is my word for When. . .I have two. 


_Escan_ is when in the future. You would use this in this case.
_Amcan_ is when in the past. . .as in "When did you do that?" or "When was the Declaration of Independence written?"

I am not exactly sure how my language handles the will tense. . .but I half decided that it is will implied. . .therefore, you would just move on to the word, we.

In my language we can be number specific within the word. If there are six of you, you would say "We six" with the word _Perxin _(six is a bad one to choose. . .hardest to pronounce of my letters. . .). We seven is _Perlun. _Etc. 

If the amount is indefinite you are allowed to pluralize it simply with the word for two, making we in this case _perdu_. No, not like the college but pronounced similarly. 

_Escan perdu cair-es 'i shetillan 'kay perdujee bay?_

My version is a bit unweildy. Literally it translates: When will we receive a welcome to our home?

Jee makes we possessive.


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## Lantarion

Woah woah, HLG pushes on alone!  I haven't even quite finished the previous one yet! But I'll post these as I manage to complete them..

So far for the previous long one (about the cousin and all) goes like this:
_Aratoi Ísianta équo inzanna..._
But it isn't finished, that only says "Late in the Spring I went to see...", and even that needs work. Ah well.


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## HLGStrider

I'm good at pushing.


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## joxy

HLGStrider said:


> Integer?


Do you mean "infinitive"?


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## joxy

HLGStrider said:


> _When will we be welcomed home?_


Pa brad ni croisav am trev?


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## HLGStrider

I think I meant Integer, but perhaps Infinitive is English for Integer because I only used that word when learning spanish.


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## joxy

An integer is in mathematics, not language; it's a single whole number, as opposed to a number with a fraction in it.
I should have enquired before: do the words "ceer" and "seer" have different pronunciations, and if so what are they?


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## HLGStrider

Uh! Great, a math term. . .


Seer sounds exactly like Sear as in to burn. . .or is that sere. . .searing heat. . .no, I think it is sear. I could look it up. My dictionary is right here under the jewel case for my new Jars of Clay CD. . . .hmmm. . .

Anyway, C gets a K. Keer. There is actually a difference in how you pronounce K and C in my language, but it is very subtle. K is harder. C is softer. I guess K would be an accented C.


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## joxy

HLGStrider said:


> Seer sounds exactly like Sear as in to burn. . .or is that sere....
> C gets a K. Keer. C is softer.


Yes, sear is burn - on the surface, usually.
Same as my c then; that's a k; it was you having both a k and a c in one word that made me wonder about that.


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## HLGStrider

THE NEXT SENTENCE TO BE TRANSLATED:


_They brought many rich gifts to appease my anger._


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