# The Light within Frodo



## Arvedui (Dec 20, 2005)

Lord of the Rings said:


> Gandalf moved his chair to the bedside, and took a good look at Frodo. The colour had come back to his face, and his eyes were clear, and fully awake and aware. He was smiling, and there seemed to be little wrong with him. But to the wizard's eye there was a faint change just a hint as it were of transparency, about him, and especially about the left hand that lay outside upon the coverlet.
> 'Still that must be expected,' said Gandalf to himself. 'He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can.'





Lord of the Rings said:


> He [Sam] was reminded suddenly of Frodo as he had lain, asleep in the house of Elrond, after his deadly wound. Then as he had kept watch Sam had noticed that at times a light seemed to be shining faintly within; but now the light was even clearer and stronger.


 
Two questions really:
1) Why was Frodo slowly transforming into a walking Lightstick? What caused this?
2) What is Gandalf referring to when he states "eyes to see that can"? What does it take to be able to see this light, as Sam clearly has the ability to see it, perhaps even more clearly than Gandalf.


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## Thorondor_ (Dec 21, 2005)

> 1) Why was Frodso slowly transforming into a walking Lightstick? What caused this?


I would say this was caused by Frodo being "half in the wraith-world himself" at one point.


> 2) What is Gandalf referring to when he states "eyes to see that can"?


I think that first and foremost he reffers to elves, as they too have access to "the other side". Concerning Sam, I guess it was his love for Frodo that enabled that "empathy"/special sensibility between them.


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## Walter (Dec 21, 2005)

Elhendi said:


> Two questions really:
> 1) Why was Frodso slowly transforming into a walking Lightstick? What caused this?
> 2) What is Gandalf referring to when he states "eyes to see that can"? What does it take to be able to see this light, as Sam clearly has the ability to see it, perhaps even more clearly than Gandalf


.

Verlyn Flieger, in her great book _Splintered Light - Logos and Language in Tolkien's World_, addresses this very issue in considerable detail in Chapter 19: "Filled with Clear Light". Unfortunately her line of argumentation doesn't make much sense if only a few passages - or even the entire chapter - are taken out of the context of the rest of the book.

So, if you still have some spare positions on your wishlist for X-Mas this book would be a worthwhile reading. It was this book that led me to see the Silmarillion in a different light and set me on the track of Barfield & Cassirer and - more generally - some further research on the origins of language

If you aren't interested in the whole book, but want to read the parts concerning Frodo send me a mail and I'll scan you a couple of pages... 

Edit: As an "appetizer" you could browse some through the "Summer Reading" section of the TW-Forum where we discussed about half of the book...


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## Alcuin (Dec 21, 2005)

I haven’t read the Flieger book, Walter. I’ll add it to my Christmas wish-list; feel free to send it along. In the meantime, I’ll see if I can dig up a more or less decent copy on the North Shore. (In all seriousness, Merry Christmas, Walter! And thanks for the tip on _Splintered Light_.)

I have to agree with Thorondor_. It seems to me that Frodo was suffering from the Elvish disease: he was fading because of the Morgul-wound, half inside the wraith-world. Since the Elves were slipping into the faded or spirit world, Thorondor_ must be correct: they could probably see Frodo on the other side. Gandalf was a Maia, and although he had forgotten (or set aside for his sojourn in Middle-earth) much of what he knew, he could see it, too: in fact, he noticed it.


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## Walter (Dec 22, 2005)

We were already in the wee-wee-hours last night, when I wrote that previous post of mine and I was simply too tired to gather my thoughts and write any more than I did, but here goes:

In the light of statements of Tolkien in his letters, #151:



> Frodo is not intended to be another Bilbo. Though his opening style is not wholly un-kin. But he is rather a study of a hobbit broken by a burden of fear and horror — broken down, and in the end made into something quite different.



and #246 (draft)



> He appears at first to have had no sense of guilt (III 224-5);1 he was restored to sanity and peace. But then he thought that he had given his life in sacrifice: he expected to die very soon. But he did not, and one can observe the disquiet growing in him. Arwen was the first to observe the signs, and gave him her jewel for comfort, and thought of a way of healing him. Slowly he fades 'out of the picture', saying and doing less and less. I think it is clear on reflection to an attentive reader that when his dark times came upon him and he was conscious of being 'wounded by knife sting and tooth and a long burden' (III 268) it was not only nightmare memories of past horrors that afflicted him, but also unreasoning self-reproach: he saw himself and all that he done as a broken failure. 'Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same, for I shall not be the same.' That was actually a temptation out of the Dark, a last flicker of pride: desire to have returned as a 'hero', not content with being a mere instrument of good. And it was mixed with another temptation, blacker and yet (in a sense) more merited, for however that may be explained, he had not in fact cast away the Ring by a voluntary act: he was tempted to regret its destruction, and still to desire it. 'It is gone for ever, and now all is dark and empty', he said as he wakened from his sickness in 1420.
> 'Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured', said Gandalf (III 268) – not in Middle-earth. Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him – if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.



Flieger maintains now, that what Gandalf observes in Rivendell is not only sign of Frodo's fading into the wraith-world as part of his being "broken down", but especially Gandalf's sentence _"He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can."_ is _"...the only hint at apotheosis .... tucked almost out of sight in a little incident early in the story..."_, a faint foreboding of what Tolkien calls _"... made into something quite different."_ in his letter.

The allusion to the Phial of Galadriel is not revealed to the reader until much later in the story, but it can be seen as a faint connexion to the Silmarilli, the Light of the Two Trees and - eventually - the Imperishable Flame - the symbol of unmarred creation.

Apotheosis: from Greek _apotheoun_, "to make a god", "to deify", as a ritual in the Roman Empire, upon death of an emperor an eagle was freed, which was supposed to bear the emperor's soul to heaven...

----

Alcuin,

I'm neither the _Christkind_ (Christ-child, our version of Santa) nor Father Christmas (haven't even got his letters) - and unfortunately don't seem to have a very good connection to these generous people either. So please don't blame me if you don't find the book under the tree (or in the stockings over the chimney), I am not responsible for the delivery of presents.... 

Nonetheless I wish you a Merry Christmas too, I hope you'll get the book anyway...


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## wizard2c (Dec 26, 2005)

This is a good question...I hasten now.....but will comment on it tomorrow.

Good evening all,
wizard2c


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## Noldor_returned (Dec 26, 2005)

My answer: Hobbitness. Frodo is a Hobbit, and so is Sam. If I don't make any sense, sorry and I might regain control of my mind and will edit my answer.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Dec 27, 2005)

> Why was Frodo slowly transforming into a walking Lightstick?



Uh...he dropped a flashlight down his pants? (Sorry...  )

"But seriously folks" — 

I have always understood the sort of passages quoted above that refer to "clear light" etc., as indicative of Frodo's developing _spiritual purity._ Just as steel is tempered by fire, Frodo's spirit — his soul if you like — was slowly relentlessly being _purified by intense travail,_ and _not_ just the deleterious poisoning effects of the evils which were visited upon him — and sometimes it could be seen by others whose spirits were enough akin to detect it. 

I have always understood these passages as occasional glimmers — mere hints flashed subtley and immediately withdrawn and hidden — of the deep Christianity that suffuses the work. As a matter of fact, I have always understood them to be — dare I say it? — examples of religious allegory. Tolkien was _so_ deeply Christian, _such_ a product of his religion that he simply couldn't help writing in what _I_ call this allegorical manner.

Barley


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## Khôr’nagan (Dec 27, 2005)

If you're not careful, Barliman, you'll get Gothmog on your back again...

Anyway, I've always thought it was simply that Frodo was fading into the world of the Wraiths, and though he was pulled back in time to prevent being fully absorbed by it, he was nevertheless trapped at least partially within it, in a way similar to the way High Elves who have dwelt in Aman are trapped in both worlds. And, just as Frodo, when half-in the Wraith-world, could see Glorfindel wreathed by a shining light and appearing to be glowing, so could others that are partially in the Wraith-world themselves see a light within Frodo. As to how Sam could see it, I don't doubt that Frodo's possession of the Ring could have somehow had an effect on this light, as merely the possession of the Ring is enough to cause you to fade (if much more slowly than a knife-wound), and Sam, being close to Frodo, may have been able to see through the flesh and see the light within.

Anyway, that's just my two-bits.


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## Gothmog (Dec 27, 2005)

> If you're not careful, Barliman, you'll get Gothmog on your back again...


Not very likely as we have exhusted that discussion for the time being.  As for his views on the matter of 'The Light within Frodo', I agree with most of what he has said. The only point of difference is that where Barley sees Allegory I see Applicability and even there, Barley has stated that this is how he understands and sees it and therefore is correct to state it in that manner.


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## Khôr’nagan (Dec 27, 2005)

Give me a break, I was just being cute  

And I have to say, a lot of these theories seem to be much more researched and thought out than mine, and of course mine shares similarities with others, but I like mine best. Big surprise, eh? It's simply that, although all this stuff about being broken down and remade is really good, I don't feel it is applicaple to the light unless to demonstrate its purity, as the light is Frodo's inner self, his soul so to speak, and those arguments can be said to have forged it into a stronger and purer soul, but that only affects what the light looks like and its potency, whereas the whole wraith-world this is what actually causes the light to be seen, and those are just afterthoughts.

Whatever, though, just my opinion.


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## Gothmog (Dec 27, 2005)

Khôr’nagan said:


> Give me a break, I was just being cute


I know, that is why I put in the *wink*


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## wizard2c (Dec 28, 2005)

I am still contemplating the light within Frodo. 

As I travel through time myself...the light in my world is a means to foresee..a prophecy. For Frodo, it has a different representation. I have been extremely busy...preparing for a journey. 

Frodo's eyes......I'll elaborate on this soon.


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