# Rangers?



## The Necromancer (May 5, 2002)

I might be mistaken, but you'd think with all the mischif about and the looking for the One Ring, Bilbo and Co. would have run into a Ranger. Did they ever see or find one?


----------



## Rangerdave (May 5, 2002)

If I remember rightly, the usual stomping grounds for the Rangers was a bit north of the areas encountered in the Hobbit. But of course, If they did encounter one of the Dunedain, they would not have seen him if he did not wish it so. 

RD


----------



## Walter (May 7, 2002)

Could it be the "Rangers of the North" were not yet invented by the time Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarves were on their adventurous journey?


----------



## Cian (May 7, 2002)

> "There is here the first suggestion that my father, in his pondering of the mystery of Trotter, saw the possibility of his not being a hobbit. But this note, like several of the others, is elliptically expressed. The meaning is, I think: If rangers are not hobbits, then Trotter is not; but if nonetheless he _is_ both, he must be a hobbit very well known." 'Queries And Alterations' TRotS


----------



## Walter (May 7, 2002)

Well, who would respond to that, if not Cian  Good to see You're still around here 

What I was trying to hint at, was that The Hobbit has been published 1937, whereas the first mentioning of the rangers in TRotS should date about 1937-1939...


----------



## Cian (May 7, 2002)

Hullo Walter! I feared you had left us, good to see you too. I like that quote, and your hinting further inspired it 

To ramble a little further, on the general topic: there's a short but hardly legible note which Tolkien wrote for insertion into the story of Aragorn and Arwen (though not used) ... it suggests that Dúnedain lived in woodlands between the Mitheithel and Bruinen.


----------



## Dûndorer (May 7, 2002)

i think that they werent invented yet. just like in the hobbit he says 'goblins' more. and in the lotr he says 'orcs' more.


----------



## Walter (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cian _
> To ramble a little further, on the general topic: there's a short but hardly legible note which Tolkien wrote for insertion into the story of Aragorn and Arwen (though not used) ... it suggests that Dúnedain lived in woodlands between the Mitheithel and Bruinen.



This I didn't come across so far, but I found the development from the "Hobbit-story" as it is presented in the first chapters of TRotS to what became finally TFotR most interesting. And the imagination of Trotter, the strange "shoe-wearing"-hobbit is highly amusing... 

cheers


----------



## Theoden (Jun 1, 2002)

I can't remember there ever being a Ranger in The Hobbit. But I think the ring was still "asleep". Just a thought.


----------



## Arthur_Vandelay (May 13, 2005)

Rangerdave said:


> If I remember rightly, the usual stomping grounds for the Rangers was a bit north of the areas encountered in the Hobbit. But of course, If they did encounter one of the Dunedain, they would not have seen him if he did not wish it so.
> 
> RD



There is of course the famous Marquette (?) University note suggesting that the bulk of the Dunedain of the North dwelt in the Angle, which is _fairly_ close to the Trollshaws. Still, the Rangers did have a lot of ground to cover. Frodo and co. never bumped into any Rangers (barring the one they had with them) either.


----------



## Ardamir the Blessed (May 29, 2005)

There is this passage in 'An Unexpected Party':


> "We might go from there up along the River Running," went on Thorin taking no notice, "and so to the ruins of Dale - the old town in the valley there, under the shadow of the Mountain. But we none of us liked the idea of the Front Gate. The river runs right out of it through the great cliff at the South of the Mountain, and out of it comes the dragon too - far too often, unless he has changed."
> "That would be no good," said the wizard, *"not without a mighty Warrior, even a Hero. I tried to find one; but warriors are busy fighting one another in distant lands, and in this neighbourhood heroes are scarce, or simply lot to be found.* Swords in these parts are mostly blunt, and axes are used for trees, and shields as cradles or dish-covers; and dragons are comfortably far-off (and therefore legendary).


 But Tolkien perhaps did not think about Rangers here, just 'normal' warriors or heroes.


----------



## Aiglos (May 30, 2005)

Well. The "Heroes" concerned are mentioned a lot in the "Histories" and in the appendices to LOTR. Aragorn and his forebears did a lot of fighting in the service of Ecthelion and other Stewards without the Stewards necessarily knowing who they really were.

After Angmar's assault, the fall of Amon Sul, Fornost and Annuminas, the Plague, the demise of Arnor etc. - is there not an entire section of the Histories that deals with the Dunedain hiding out in the forests "ever watchful" and keeping the Shire and Bree safe from harm...?

They seem to be focused on keeping the remnants of Angmar's people and the Goblins etc. from getting out from the mountains and causing mischief.

BTW, wasn't Arvedui a plonker...? Ship, storm, ice....idiot.... (but that's another thread)

Oh, and who let his nephew go riding off into Minas Morgul all by himself....?

Hope they fired the Captain of the Guard that day.


----------



## Arat Macar (May 31, 2005)

I agree that at the time he wrote the Hobbit, Tolkien had not yet encorporated Rangers into the story. That, however, is not so fun to think about. I mean, just because Lucas may not have thout about Ewocks at the time of A New Hope does not mean that Luke and Han would not have found them if they went to the forest moon of Endor. 

Now that we have the whole lexicon of Middle Earth, we know there were Rangers near the Shire at the time of Bilbo's first adventure. We are told that they were not unknown in Bree. Most Hobbits were distrusting of outsiders and so eventhough Elves and, less frequently, Dwarves passed through the Shire occasionally, the Hobbits ignored them if they could. The Rangers' task was to protect not to interact and, therefore, they were usually unseen.

What is interesting to me is the question of whether or not Gandalf would be in the area of the Shire and not be in contact with Aragorn. I will have to work out the timeline a bit. How old was Bilbo in the Hobbit vs LOTR? If Aragorn was in his 50's in LOTR he was probably not on duty yet in the north at the time of The Hobbit. I'll look into it.

Also, I am new to this forum, do most people get the Trotter reference and that he was Tolkien's original concept for Strider? I love the "History of the Lord of the Rings" but I did not know many people were that familiar with them.


----------



## Greenwood (May 31, 2005)

Bilbo was 50-51 at the time of his adventure; Aragorn was 10 at that time and was 87 at the time of the War of the Ring.

I think you will find that a fair number of TTF members are familiar with the HoME series and know of "Trotter", "Bingo Baggins", etc.

As for the question that started this thread, it was why didn't Bilbo and company run into any Rangers on his adventure. The fact that Tolkien had not yet invented them is a perfectly fair and totally correct answer to that question. It is, in fact, the only correct answer to that question.


----------



## Ardamir the Blessed (May 31, 2005)

Appendix B:


> 2956:	Aragorn meets Gandalf and their friendship begins.


----------

