# Should Glorfindel have carried Frodo to Rivendell?



## Meselyn (Aug 11, 2003)

*should Glorfindel have carryed frodo to Rivendell?*

In another topic that i started about the new ROTK game a person says that Glorfindel should have carryed frodo to Rivendell. I want to get everyones opinion on this topic.

1- Yes

2- No

3- Who cares?


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## Celebthôl (Aug 11, 2003)

ooops, i voted for both  

I meant no, although it would have been great for the books, he would not have appeared again, so having Arwen do it saves having to introduce a new character and its the first Elve we see other than in the prologue, and lets face it, it was a great intro (her being amazingly hott and all )


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## Meselyn (Aug 11, 2003)

lol  ! Yah it did give us a first look at an elf (besides the hobbit). Though you have to admit she did do a good job of out running the Ringwraiths. her horse was as fast or slower than shawdowfax. Hm........ that might make a good poll question. Though were to put it.


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## Feanorian (Aug 11, 2003)

> Though you have to admit she did do a good job of out running the Ringwraiths. her horse was as fast or slower than shawdowfax. Hm........ that might make a good poll question. Though were to put it.



I cant really admit that....a blind one legged hobbit could have out run the BlackRiders...tis a movie. And as Beorn has definitly shown in the LOTR section Shadowfax was definitly faster. 

I would have liked to see Glorfindel....Arwen is such a disappointment.


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## Meselyn (Aug 11, 2003)

well i created this topic because some one in another topic of mine was saying that glorfindel would have done a better job of getting frodod to Rivendell. Also i would love to see sam merry pippin or even frodo out run a ringwraith while injured!


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## GuardianRanger (Aug 11, 2003)

Was Arwen the first elf we see besides the Prologue? What about the elves going back to the Grey Havens in the Extended Edition? Or was Arwen shown before that.....now I have to watch the movie again.


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## Meselyn (Aug 11, 2003)

yah i'll have to watch the movie again to.


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## Rangerdave (Aug 12, 2003)

Note: Thisis strictly a personal opinion, no real scholarship should be derived from this response.


I believe that having Glorfindel deliver Frodo to Mt Doom would be a tragic mistake, doomed to almost certain failure.

The primary objective of the Fellowship was to destroy the Ring by taking it to the fires of Mt Doom by stealth. I find it hard to accept that an Elvin Prince, even of such power as Glorfindel possessed, could slip into Mordor undetected. 

Also, we have no direct evidence that the Elves even knew of Shelob's lair existance, let alone a working knowlidge of how to navigate through the labyrinthine passages. This leaves only three possible means of entering the Black Land. 
By passing the Black gate by force
By passing, either undetected or undefeated, through the Morgul Vale
or
by escorting the fellowship through the back door by either circumnavigating the mountains and transversing the wastelands to the far south or far east.
The first two of these alteratives seems to me to be only possible by a large, highly mobile fighting force, which neither the Elves or Gondor maintained the resources to provide. The third choice would require a considerable greater expense of time and a vastly more provisioned means of travel for the Fellowship: thereby negating the only small advantages the Fellowship possessed. Namely Stealth and Speed.

A third reason for not having Glorfindel as a member of the Fellowship is that I doubt very seriously that Elrond considered sending him in the first place. Remember that Sauron waged war on a great deal more territory than is shown in the text. It is only after the defeat of the Dark Lord and the destruction of Barad Dur that Gandalf gives the account of the war in the North.

If the quest to destroy the Ring had failed and Sauron had regained the fullness of his native power, the Elves would be forced to fight their way to the Havens. the Power and Majesty of Glorfindel would have been much better served by holding the last means of escape open for the final flight than marching to war in the south.


Just my thoughts on the matter
feel free to disagree
just remember to be polite about it


RD


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## Eriol (Aug 12, 2003)

I agree, RD. 



On both accounts: secrecy and Glorfindel was more needed in Rivendell. I just want to make a nit-picking, though; the name of the valley (Cirith Ungol) was known to everybody (Faramir, Gandalf). It means, unless I'm way off in my non-existent Elvish, "Valley of the Spider" (Ungol- : Ungoliant). So I would guess that the wise were aware that:

(1) There was a valley connecting the Morgul Vale with Mordor
(2) There was a nasty spider there.

If they would choose that route even knowing that (something that Frodo did not) is another matter. (By the way, don't you find it odd that Frodo, supposedly a scholar and knowledgeable about Elvish, did not suspect something like that when Faramir tells him the name of the valley?).

I think that if Glorfindel were in Cirith Ungol instead of Sam, Shelob would have finished him off easily (she did not pay much attention to Sam -- and she would never have tried to smother a big elf, she would have attacked him to kill). 

IF Glorfindel survived Shelob, he would have to use the Ring to hide from the Orcs, or stir an alarm throughout Mordor. Using the Ring, he would almost certainly fall to its lure. He was not a humble hobbit -- and Sam almost faltered. Surely a mighty elf would be no match for the Ring at that instance. 

And that means: game over.


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## Beorn (Aug 12, 2003)

OK...I'm not sure if Eriol's smilies reveal something, but the topic is whether Glor should have carried Frodo to Rivendell, not whether he should lead them to Mount Doom or be in the fellowship...

If Glor had carried Frodo, there would still be black riders to deal with:


> 'You look splendid,' he said aloud. 'I will risk a brief tale without consulting Elrond. But quite brief, mind you, and then you must sleep again. This is what happened, as far as I can gather. The Riders made straight for you, as soon as you fled. They did not need the guidance of their horses any longer: you had become visible to them, being already on the threshold of their world. And also the Ring drew them. Your friends sprang aside, off the road, or they would have been ridden down. They knew that nothing could save you, if the white horse could not. The Riders were too swift to overtake, and too many to oppose. On foot even Glorfindel and Aragorn together could not with stand all the Nine at once.
> 
> 'When the Ringwraiths swept by, your friends ran up behind. Close to the Ford there is a small hollow beside the road masked by a few stunted trees. There they hastily kindled fire; for Glorfindel knew that a flood would come down, if the Riders tried to cross, and then he would have to deal with any that were left on his side of the river. The moment the flood appeared, he rushed out, followed by Aragorn and the others with flaming brands. Caught between fire and water, and seeing an Elf-lord revealed in his wrath, they were dismayed, and their horses were stricken with madness. Three were carried away by the first assault of the flood; the others were now hurled into the water by their horses and overwhelmed.'


Source: Many Meetings

Glorfindel was essential to the removal of the black riders. *No*, he *should not* have carried Frodo to Rivendell.


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## Eriol (Aug 12, 2003)

I was agreeing with RD -- how could I imagine that a MOD would switch the topic so abruptly?



Your quote about carrying Frodo to Rivendell closes the matter up, Beorn. Therefore I move that the topic should be _changed_ to what RD was discussing. All in favor, raise hands.

.


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## Beorn (Aug 12, 2003)

*<-- My answer*



> _Originally posted by Eriol _
> *I was agreeing with RD -- how could I imagine that a MOD would switch the topic so abruptly?
> 
> 
> ...



Start a new thread for it


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## Confusticated (Aug 12, 2003)

Even though three nazgul together ran from Glorfindel earlier, and one could assume that all nine together would have, Glorfindel believed that they would chase him if Frodo was with him. So Glorfindel probably believed that him and Frodo alone had no chance against all nine, and even against only the four who were up ahead. Had Glorfindel thought he could protect Frodo from four (and maybe nine) nazgul, he would have taken him to Rivendell quickly and left the others behind. At least, I do not doubt it.

Who is a better judge of Glorfindel's capablities than himself?


I say maybe nine, because chances were that him facing all nine was unlikely given that 5 were behind and not as fast as Asfaloth.



> 'Then the Witch-king laughed, and none that heard it ever forgot the horror of that cry. But Glorfindel rode up then on his white horse, and in the midst of his laughter the Witch-king turned to flight and passed into the shadows.


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## Melko Belcha (Aug 12, 2003)

I didn't have a big problem with Arwen replacing Glorfindel in the film. What pissed me off was not allowing Frodo to ride to the Ford alone and stand up to the Nazgul. To me the scene in the book is alot more emotional and cinematic then they way they did it in the film.


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## Ravenna (Aug 12, 2003)

In strictly practical terms, there is also the fact that, swift though Asfaloth was, any horse carrying a double burden of riders is likely to perform somewhat below their best. With only Frodo on board, I would imagine that the horse would have run almost unencumbered.
After all, why add weight and risk slowing the horse down if it's not absolutely needed?


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## Meselyn (Aug 12, 2003)

I like what Melko Belcha was saying. That would make the scene in the movie more dramatic. Especially with frodo riding one handed with one hand over the wound from the ringwraith.


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## Rangerdave (Aug 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eriol _
> *how could I imagine that a MOD would switch the topic so abruptly?
> 
> . *



Well mainly because the Mod in question was not paying attention as usual and mistook the question.

My apologies to all involved.

As for the original question, my answer would be 
hmmmmm....


Ok, I've got it now.

Why should he have carried Frodo, the horse knew the way and could travel faster carring one than two.

Lame, I know.

but that what I get for not paying attention.


RD


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## Confusticated (Aug 13, 2003)

Well I have taken the question as being: Should Glorfindel have carried Frodo to Rivendell? To spell it out, this could, and by my thinking _should_ mean, very shortly after Glorfindel meets Frodo.

And not this: Sould Glorfindel have started off with Frodo to Rivendell, at the moment when the 5 nazgul came up from behind?

I get the impression some people are taking it as the second question? Maybe I'm wrong about the intentions of the question.


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## Eriol (Aug 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rangerdave _
> *
> but that's what I get for not paying attention.
> 
> RD *



Well, I got a more interesting question than the original from the fact that you were not paying attention, RD -- so much for serendipity.



I'll open the other thread as Beorn suggested. Can I copy your post there? Or will you post it yourself? Or perhaps you just are through with it?


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