# Event Game



## Anamatar IV (Jan 25, 2003)

I thought it would be cool to have a game where one person describes an event IN HIS OR HER OWN WORDS and someone tries to think of what that event is. Then that person gets to describe a new one.

I'll start with an easy one since I am WAY too tired to think of a hard one:

Dark and dank it was in there. Two contestants in this game of wits there was. Childish lore of old was passed back and forth. In the end a winner there was by luck or cheat, and the loser broke his promise.


----------



## Hirila (Jan 26, 2003)

That's the riddle-contest between Bilbo and Gollum! 


Another event: The three big peoples plus a less-known one came together to talk about how the world could be saved.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jan 26, 2003)

The council of Elrond?

If so:

Lands were sunk, yet the people spared. A king's warrior broke his tower and the king thrown in bonds. By one man never returned to his land did all this happen.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 27, 2003)

The War of Wrath.

******
A begger, a stranger, 
sometimes severe, sometimes - so tender.

In rags, and unknown,
he wanders the world.

What is he searching? ....

A white tree,
a white tower,
a white lady,
and white days for this world.
*****

Well, the rhymes were not very successful, but it is still so early in the morning 
******

Anamatar, this is such a good idea!!!!!!


----------



## gate7ole (Jan 27, 2003)

Aragorn
----------------------------

It couldn't be besieged
It couldn't be attacked
Because it couldn't be seen

Yet it's doom was prophecied
But not by the deeds of the enemy
Or by the lack of its courage

But it eventually fell and the reasons could be found only inside.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jan 27, 2003)

hmm the witch king perhaps?


----------



## Hirila (Jan 27, 2003)

The kingdom of Gondor?


----------



## gate7ole (Jan 27, 2003)

I got you. No it's not Gondor or the Witch-King. 
Actually Anamatar, that was a great guess, since the Witch King cannot be seen and was prophecied to die, but ... it's not him. The reasons he fell could not be found "inside"


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 27, 2003)

Could it be Numenor?


----------



## gate7ole (Jan 28, 2003)

No.
I'll give some other hints:

"Its beginning was in dreams
It was created to remind the old
And only once the Edain stepped through its gates"


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jan 30, 2003)

I am guessing the halls of Mandos. But if this is wrong I can say you have thouroughly stumped us.


----------



## FoolOfATook (Jan 30, 2003)

Gondolin.


----------



## gate7ole (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by FoolOfATook _
> *Gondolin. *


Finally, we have a winner!


----------



## FoolOfATook (Jan 30, 2003)

Give me a little time to think of a decent Middle-earth riddle. I'll have one up by tommorow. Gate7ole- great question. It was the Edain reference that got me on the right track.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 1, 2003)

Since Master Took has not come up with a riddle, I'll do it. 

It flies - but is not a bird.
It shines - but is not a star.
It fights - but is not a warrior.
It enspires - but is not a poem.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 1, 2003)

Is it Eärendil in Vingelot?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 1, 2003)

But wasn't Earendil a star in the later ages? Unless the answer is Earendil in the first age....


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *But wasn't Earendil a star in the later ages? Unless the answer is Earendil in the first age.... *


I can't provide you with the right quite now, but Vingelot was *seen* as a star, not that he turned to one...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 2, 2003)

a heart of fire
a hand of fire
a spirit of fire
lives in a fire ????


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 2, 2003)

Well that is obviously a balrog....right?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 2, 2003)

I knew it was easy, but this game is such a fun! 
What's your riddle then?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 2, 2003)

Seldom do
The sun and moon
Shine in unison
But
When they do
The cowards of light
Are afraid
But the sun and moon
Shining in unison
Can and was
Broken
and Can and was
Remade
Only to reunite
That which has fallen
Into decay
And nothingness


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 2, 2003)

The trees in Valinor and their light captured into the Silmarils?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 3, 2003)

hm close but not quite...tell me if this is too vague....I wasn't sure.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 3, 2003)

Is it the Last Battle?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 3, 2003)

hmmm no.

Sun and moon....

THE COWARDS OF LIGHT feared

*Can and was
Broken
and Can and was
Remade
*


----------



## Elennainie (Feb 3, 2003)

Is it just light itself?


----------



## Beleg (Feb 4, 2003)

Marrige between elves and man?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 4, 2003)

no....neither.

Is this too vague or just hard?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 4, 2003)

VAGUE! VAGUE!
GIVE US A HINT!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 4, 2003)

hmm okay:

what were the "cowards of light" in easier terms?

You really need to know a lot of a section (that if you knew would give it away) of the sil to get this....


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 4, 2003)

"cowards of light" - I can think of Orcs.... 
But you say to take the Simarillion at large...???????
It's getting even more confusing....


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 4, 2003)

hmm well orcs is right.

there is one section in the silmarillion that will give you the answer. But I thought I was giving something away with "can and was BROKEN can and was REMADE"


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 4, 2003)

Do you mean about Orcs being the mockery of Elves?


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 4, 2003)

Maybe it is just the first rise of Sun and Moon when they were together on the sky.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 4, 2003)

neither. Lhun was right about cowards of light being orcs....Orcs being afraid of something that was broken and was remade that shines with the sun and moon....ack! I'm giving it away!


----------



## Elennainie (Feb 4, 2003)

Is it the phial of Galadriel, because it contains the light of the star of Earendil who has a silmaril on his brow, which contains the light of the two trees?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 5, 2003)

No, could this be Anduril? 
Broken and reforged?
The Flame of the West?


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 5, 2003)

Yes, Anduril is correct. Lhun was quicker than me though.

And Anamatar that was way difficult. We couldn't find it only with the first riddle.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 5, 2003)

Go, Gate!
I stole a turn from you once. 
Now I'm giving way to you! :0


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 5, 2003)

A great task was appointed
An evil lord was confronted
Yet the victory was gained

So the King’s heart was softened
And those who live and not,
Have left this world long ago.


----------



## Beleg (Feb 5, 2003)

Is it either Thingol or Beren and Luthien?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 5, 2003)

Could it be the War of Wrath and the departure of Elves and men to teh West?


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 5, 2003)

Beleg is correct, it is Beren and Luthien


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 6, 2003)

But mine is applicable too!


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 6, 2003)

Well, Lhun, your answer _could_ be correct, but the verse “those who live and not” I meant those who on the same time were alive and dead (meaning of course the resurrected Beren and Lúthien).


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 8, 2003)

A path to oblivion ...
A path to eternity ...

Yet , it was 

The path of glory 
And the one only Kings could be taken along.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 8, 2003)

Mmm, I have two ideas. My first idea is that it refers to the path to Halfirien.


----------



## Beleg (Feb 8, 2003)

i think gate's second would be the hallowed mountain top of Melentrama. But that's my guess.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole _
> Mmm, I have two ideas. My first idea is that it refers to the path to Halfirien.
> 
> _Originally posted by Beleg:_
> i think gate's second would be the hallowed mountain top of Melentrama. But that's my guess.


Got ya!!! 

NO!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 8, 2003)

The paths of the dead?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 8, 2003)

"...ONLY KINGS could be taken along" !
Think!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 8, 2003)

Now I am thinking that forest place (I can't believe I'm forgetting the name) where Cirion and Eorl went to take their oaths. but that wouldn't make sense since after the line of kings was broken only the STEWARDS were permitted there.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 8, 2003)

No.
Mind the grammar voice! It's passive!


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *Now I am thinking that forest place (I can't believe I'm forgetting the name) where Cirion and Eorl went to take their oaths. but that wouldn't make sense since after the line of kings was broken only the STEWARDS were permitted there. *


Well this was what I though too. Halifirien. And it was wrong.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 8, 2003)

I remembered the name, Lhun

Silent Street that led to the king's tombs.
********

The elected failed
the quest
and the oppressed
succeeded for all in the last.

The slinking got
what it ever wanted
the tall got what had been his
to claim

The eagles played
a dual role
and the mountain consumed
more than needed


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 8, 2003)

You didn't even leave me the chance of saying "Yes"! 
Yes - Rath Dinen at Minas Tirith was the answer to my riddle.

Now yours here....


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 8, 2003)

This refers to the War of the Ring, or if you prefer particularly to the Fellowship of the Ring. Right?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 8, 2003)

hmm no...but the war of the ring is the general area


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> The elected failed
> the quest
> and the oppressed
> ...



"and the mountain consumed
more than needed"-> Orodruin, consuming the Ring

"The elected failed
the quest"-> The FOTR that was broken

"The eagles played
a dual role"-> Gandalf + saving the two hobbits from Orodruin

Yet, I can't link them to any general "event", but just the destruction of the One.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole _
> *but just the destruction of the One. *



Correct

The elected failed
the quest


as in Frodo being elected....I just realized this was a big mistake what I mean is the ring bearer failed the quest

the oppressed
succeeded for all in the last

Gollum and saving the world

The slinking got
what it ever wanted

again, Gollum getting the ring

the tall got what had been his
to claim

as in Aragorn (heir of Elendil the tall) claiming the throne of Gondor after the fall of Sauron.

The eagles played
a dual role

The eagles not only attacked the nazgul in the air but also saved frodo and Sam.

and the mountain consumed
more than needed

Orodruin also consumed Gollum

You're up, Gate


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 8, 2003)

Few they were, yet they did not lose their courage,
They fought with all their strength the Dark Lord,
But the vision of the dead past betrayed them
And from the only one saved, great deeds have followed.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 9, 2003)

The Rangers form the North = the Dunadain?


----------



## Beleg (Feb 9, 2003)

It can either be Beren, Tuor or Dunedain. 

Beren?


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 9, 2003)

I’m asking for something more specific than just the Rangers or Beren. Remember, it’s supposed to be an event game. The riddle refers to an event (which may have short or long duration).
And the Rangers are wrong.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole _
> *Few they were, yet they did not lose their courage,
> They fought with all their strength the Dark Lord,
> But the vision of the dead past betrayed them
> And from the only one saved, great deeds have followed. *


Please, gate, a clue?????
At least a little one


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 10, 2003)

The Unhappy betrayed them for the sake of a dead
and from the twelve, only one was saved


----------



## Beleg (Feb 10, 2003)

hint made it easy. The company of Barahir on the highlands of Dorthonian. the killing of the company due to the revealations of One man.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 10, 2003)

Right, your turn


----------



## Beleg (Feb 10, 2003)

The death of King,
due to Silmaril lust.
the king of Elves,
In the west the first.

Slain was he,
by so-called friends,
and so robbed was she,
from her Middle Earth lover.

Hint. Event, Character, Character.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 11, 2003)

This is probably Thingol and his slaying by the Dwarves and Melian's return to Valinor.

If I'm right, I let anyone else who wants to write a riddle. I can't think of one right now


----------



## Beleg (Feb 12, 2003)

Correct Gate and so Anyone can ask the next Riddle. However i guess since its an Event riddle game, the riddle should involve an event.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 12, 2003)

OK, since none posted a riddle, I will

Unsummoned and unlooked came the valiant king
And his ten thousand long swords brought hope
For the night was passing and the day had come 
That the brethren would fight together the Dark.


----------



## Elennainie (Feb 12, 2003)

Huor and Hurin?


----------



## Elennainie (Feb 12, 2003)

In the Battle of Unnumbered Tears? And the king unlooked for is Turgon from the hidden Gondolin?


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elennainie _
> *In the Battle of Unnumbered Tears? And the king unlooked for is Turgon from the hidden Gondolin? *



Wonderful dear Aurora!
Just that I meant only Turgon and not the Hadorians too.

Your turn!


----------



## Elennainie (Feb 12, 2003)

Oh goody, finally I got one right! I know it's supposed to be an event riddle, but the answer to this one is not an event.

Fingers under ground
Doesn't make a sound
Not sick but a cure is needed
Burning fire makes it sweetest.


----------



## Beleg (Feb 13, 2003)

I can only guess it as Gollum and his hunger for the Ring.


----------



## Elennainie (Feb 13, 2003)

Nope, sorry. Keep guessing!  (Getting a disturbing image of Gollum burning in fire....)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 14, 2003)

Elen, could it be the weed?
The smoking "pleasure" for all the Hobbits and not only!
I mean, it is a plant and put in a pipe and lit - it gives pleasure...

Perhaps a stupid thought ....  , but was all I could think about!


----------



## Elennainie (Feb 14, 2003)

Yes, Lhun, you got it!!!! It's pipeweed! 

fingers under ground - the roots when it's a plant growing
not sick but a cure is needed - you have to cure the leaves before you can smoke them, etc.

This game is such fun!


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 14, 2003)

This is the hardest riddle of all!
I didn't have a clue. And frankly I would never find it. Well done Lhun!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 14, 2003)

Thank yopu! Thank you! 

Now, I guess, it's my turn.

....mmmmm...let me think a bit!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 15, 2003)

this one is going to be easy.

We went along merrily singing
and there we sat for a rest.
And all of a sudden I was alone!
My friends - gone
And I could sing merrily no more.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 15, 2003)

We're talking about hobbits definitely here.
So, my guess is the event with Old-Man Willow.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 16, 2003)

As I said - EEEEEEEASY!

Yes, gate, now go on


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 16, 2003)

New Riddle

The last and desperate assault
Rebalanced the battle of battles
And the wings of terror
Filled with dismay the besieger 

But one of them stood alone
And the duel was inevitable
Whose outcome filled the air
And shook the root of Ambar


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 17, 2003)

Having done quite some research on battles, I would call the _"battle of battles"_ the War of Wrath.
So, this might be the event. 
But then.....what duel? 
Unless you meant not one-to-one duel ....?


----------



## Beleg (Feb 17, 2003)

That the battle of the Host of Valar and Morgoth. The last assualt is when Melkor cut lose the Dragons and they for a while stemmed the flow of the Allie;s but Earendil came with Brids of Garden of Valinor and Slew Ancalagon the black. I only hope i am correct.


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 17, 2003)

Lhun, nice avatar!

It is Ancalagon and Earendil.
Correct beleg.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 17, 2003)

Gate,  it's my RP-dedicated avatar!
I am glad you like it! 

Just let me know if you wish me to chose sth.special for your part in the RP 

Beleg, GOOD JOB...
And please, don't make the next riddle too hard!


----------



## Ecthelion (Feb 19, 2003)

Since Beleg hasn't posted a new riddle does someone else want to go?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 20, 2003)

The breath of Death
that them there met
discouraged most valiant hearts.

But though fear they felt,
no tear they shed
but followed the Flame on their paths.
********

Oh! Why do I give you so EASY tasks?!


----------



## Beleg (Feb 20, 2003)

Humm The Ring Wraiths? Lhun this is not easy!!! who said it is easy?


----------



## Ecthelion (Feb 20, 2003)

Hm....... Is it Frodo and Sam going to Mount Doom? Becuase they have to hide from the wraiths who discourage hearts and face Shelob who I think would discourage hearts as well, but F&S kept going.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 20, 2003)

I got it. It's the Grey Company and the Paths of the Dead, right?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 20, 2003)

Didn't I say?!
EEEEEEEEASY! 

Your turn!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 20, 2003)

'Round the corner came a horse
No halfling sized pony
A rider crouched sat upon it
Cloaked in black
Only his boots and high stirrups were shown

The ones who it seeked
Had hidden
In hope of
Surprising their friend
Who was late on his way


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 20, 2003)

a Black Rider coming to the Shire to look for ....
Well they came looking for Bilbo, right?
They didn't know that he was no longer the Ringbearer...

Right, Mr.S.Journeyman?  Congratulations!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 20, 2003)

Right about the Black Rider....but which encounter with the Hobbits was it?


----------



## Hirila (Feb 20, 2003)

It was the Black Rider searching for the Ring. Frodo and Sam hid because they wanted to surprise Gandalf. They had waited for him for a long time. Unfortunately he was delayed 


Here is my event:


Endless runs the stream
Where in the depths she disappeared
To save her kin.
And endless sorrow began.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 20, 2003)

It reminds me of that river where Nienor/Niniel trew herself... but I might be wrong


----------



## gate7ole (Feb 20, 2003)

Is this Niniel/Nienor commiting suicide?

edit: Lhun beat me in this


----------



## Hirila (Feb 20, 2003)

And it is true! Congratulations.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole _
> *Is this Niniel/Nienor commiting suicide?
> 
> edit: Lhun beat me in this *


That's the way it is, Gate! 

It came like a hurricane,
like a thunder
and it filled the air with pain.
And we were beaten to the ground.
For Death we perceived - the Death of our souls!

Then one let a beam of light .
Up it flew straight in the night.
And Death withdrew,
And we were up,
And the breath of Life we breathed again.
******

This might be a bit difficult , so I'll give a clue:
it is an event and a few characters from the LOTR.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 21, 2003)

This is a little far out there for a guess but it seems to me it is Faramir and Eowyn standing in Minas Tirith together. I dunno, just gives me that feel I guess.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 21, 2003)

The event is before that Faramir-Eowin scene.


----------



## Beleg (Feb 22, 2003)

Death of Witch King And the coming of the Rohirrim and the Dunedain?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 22, 2003)

No!


----------



## Ecthelion (Feb 22, 2003)

Is is when Theoden and Snowmane are slain by the Witch-King then Eoywn fights and defeats the Witch-King?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 22, 2003)

Much, much before this


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 22, 2003)

Legolas shooting the winged nazgul in FotR maybe?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 22, 2003)

FINALLY!
Y E S !!!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 23, 2003)

When weapons fail
And there is no fire
to fight the fire with
you must use your head
And your surroundings
to win


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 24, 2003)

Just a quick thing: this event I know happened but I am not so sure about the details as I have not read it in a book yet (hint hint). I put in the riddle most stuff I picked up in this guild.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Feb 28, 2003)

okay no one has answered in days. Like I said, I do not know if these details are correct: I picked them up from this guild. So tell me if this WAS correct or not: Ecthelion slaying Gothmog.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 1, 2003)

Ha! I would have never guessed!

Now, whose turn is it?
......

Ah! Well...

It's not the turn that's important, right?

*******
When was that magical time
When the Burning Light 
Met a Silver Star divine?

And it was day and night
Hand in hand together
And the world felt right
And life seemed forever....

******


----------



## Anamatar IV (Mar 1, 2003)

The mingling of the light of the two trees in the Bliss of Valinor?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 1, 2003)

I know it looks very much like it, but this time I wanted something NOT too obvious! 
So, NO!

GUESS!


----------



## Hirila (Mar 3, 2003)

Is it Aragorn meeting Arwen? His burning love meeting the Evening Star? 
Just a guess. I am not convinced myself.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 3, 2003)

Not exactly the event but it has to do with these two.


----------



## Beleg (Mar 4, 2003)

Beren and Luthien?...And the World Felt right...this stanza sort of gives me the feeling. But we'll see.


----------



## Beleg (Mar 9, 2003)

Erm Lhun can you please tell whether the answers are correct or Not? The thread has come to a standstill seeing that that last post before this was on 4th.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 10, 2003)

The riddle has to do with Aragorn and Arwen.
Hirila was close ! 
Only specify the event.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Mar 11, 2003)

When they stumbled upon eachother in Lorien?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 13, 2003)

Oh! Common!
THAT was what Hirilla said....But it is not THIS event!

Shall I "reveal" it?


----------



## Beleg (Mar 13, 2003)

You should


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 14, 2003)

Ooooo well.... it is that either you have lost interest or ....I can't believe it was so difficult! You were so close...

It is when Aragorn and Arwen meet in Lothlorien and take the vows of love and spend their days of loving each other.
*******
Now then, here comes the new one  :

_On an island we stood
watching the red rivers running by.
And then we flew in the air.
And the burning waters we left far below._

****
Well? That's easy


----------



## Beleg (Mar 14, 2003)

> it is that either you have lost interest or .


   NO!!!! It was just plain difficult.

And this one is mighty difficult too!

Well my first and hopefully last answer is 

Beren and Luthien just after their death. This is so difficult!!!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 14, 2003)

Hey, beleg, you seem to love the couple B&L! 

No!

The event is from LOTR.


----------



## Finduilas (Mar 14, 2003)

Isn't this one when the ring is finally destroyed and Sam and Frodo fly on the eagle's back?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 14, 2003)

BRAVO!
Your turn


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 18, 2003)

Hey, Findi, common!


----------



## Finduilas (Mar 19, 2003)

I'm sorry for being late but here's something I thought of. It's very easy and it's actually part of a Metallica song.


But I'll take my time anywhere 
Free to speak my mind anywhere 
And I'll redefine anywhere 
Anywhere I may roam 
Where I lay my head is home


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 21, 2003)

EASY?!!    

I have NO idea what event you have in mind! 

some help, please?


----------



## Finduilas (Mar 22, 2003)

OK, it's from the ROTK. I hope that helps.


----------



## Finduilas (Mar 25, 2003)

OK. Here's the answer:

It's when Sam and Frodo roam alone in the Emptiness on their way to Mordor. And the ground is actually their home. 
I hope that's cleared out the idea I had in mind.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 26, 2003)

After I persuaded Findi to give the answer to her riddle (because it seemed nobody could answer it!  ), she gave me the right to post a new one.

***********
Two giants stood against each other -
a giant in strength and in spirit the other.

Two worlds they were there to fight in revenge for
one cursed and the other worth dying again for.

The battle was won with a glorious end.
But .... what was the world that was left in the end?
***********

_a hint : NOT Fingolfin vs. Morgoth!_


----------



## Finduilas (Mar 26, 2003)

Is it Morgoth vs. Manwe?
I suppose the two worlds may be the Numenore and Aman.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 27, 2003)

One of the "giants" is right!  
But read carefully!


> Two worlds they were there to fight in revenge for
> one cursed and the other worth *dying again* for.


You wouldn't expect a Vala to actually DIE and what is more - *twice*, would you!


----------



## Finduilas (Mar 27, 2003)

I'd now like to inquire about a point which really confused me after your post.
You say that 'dying again for' is refering to the 'giant' but not the world itself. However, when I read the poem, I thought that it is one of the worlds that is 'worth dying again for'. In other words I thought that the 'giants' were fighting in revenge for two different worlds( to whom everyone of them belongs) one of which was cursed and the other worth dying for.
Anyway, I just wanted to clear this up.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 28, 2003)

Yes, Findi! 
You have understood it quite right!
Two worlds - two giants defending them.... BUT! Don't be fooled by the word giant  
Besides I've said it in the poem itself.... about the giants....


AND WHERE ARE THE OTHERS?!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Beleg (Mar 28, 2003)

The only answer that comes to my mind is Morgoth vs Hùrin. Allthough that the most farthest guess their can be.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 28, 2003)

Well, you ALL ( ) guess correctly about one of the giants - Morgoth.
As for the other one - no - not Hurin!

And think of the event!
If you guess the event, you'll figure out about the other giant.

Where is Gate now - this is one of the events that excites him most.


----------



## Beleg (Mar 28, 2003)

Lhun please give us a smallll guess....Is the other gaint one of the second children of Eru?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Mar 28, 2003)

I really doubt this but is it Turin Vs. Morgoth in the 2nd prophecy of Mandos?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 28, 2003)

Anamatar! You always guess!

Your turn!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Mar 28, 2003)

Oh my really? I am really not learned in that prophecy but the thing that tipped me off was when you said dying *again* for.

1 person
Plus one possesion
Plus one gathering
Plus many relatives
Plus a dual occasion
equals mystery and doubt.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 29, 2003)

It's either Bilbo-dwarves meeting before the Great Quest 
or Bilbo's birthday - the Ring - the new Quest.

Only I wonder about:


> Plus a dual occasion



And see how good I am!? Giving "fat" hints  

Take my example!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Mar 29, 2003)

You're right with Bilbo's party. The dual occassion was that is was Frodo's party as well.


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 2, 2003)

I suppose it's now Lhun's turn again, right? 
Come on, we are waiting.


----------



## Gil-Galad (Apr 2, 2003)

Well,she is too tired and went to sleep so you will probably wait the whole night.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 3, 2003)

Hey, you two... talking me around behind my back!  

Here is a riddle for you all:

***************
Black fields.
Black hills.
And through them a river flows.

But ... Lo! The waters sing as they run
a song of glory of the ages.
And the fields and the hills are black no more!
***************


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 3, 2003)

I suppose it could be the Purifying if Isengard.
The black hills and fields is actually Isengard and the lands around while the river is the one the Ents let flow in order to 'wash' the tower.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 3, 2003)

Nope!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Apr 5, 2003)

Is it the Last Battle at the Morannon?


----------



## Beleg (Apr 5, 2003)

Tol-Sirion.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 11, 2003)

Hey, people, you are NOT reading carefully! 

The "river" _sings_! And what does it sing?:



> The waters sing as they run
> a song of glory of the ages.



Well, now you have it!
Right?


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 11, 2003)

Could this possibly be the last alliance of the peoples when they nearly destroyed the One? The waters are the people and brightness at the end is the temporary destroyment of Sauron.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 12, 2003)

Noooooooo! 

Whatzzup! I never thought it could be so.... "obscure" - this riddle of mine!

No way out of the caves for you!  

Read carefully:
black surroundings >> a singing>>> ????? Well????


----------



## Thorongil (Apr 12, 2003)

is it to do with fingon rescuing maedhros from thangorodrim?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 12, 2003)

Shall I give up or YOU?!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, it seems high time to solve this riddle:



> Black fields.
> Black hills.
> And through them a river flows.
> 
> ...



The Music of the Ainur!

_......flowing like a river of sounds through the blaxckness of the Void and then in the Void there is a light and Arda appeares..._


Now, whoever wishes, may come up with a new riddle


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 18, 2003)

LOL, Lhun, I would never think of that!!!
Anyway, here's something:


Death is all around, 
yes, so tragic!
Sadness, anger and revenge...
and magic, all is magic!
But the wooden heart, so strong inded, feels sorrow,
and no doubt now that it'll have his land, air, life 
that have been borrowed!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 22, 2003)

LOL, Findi! Blame my "twisted" imagination! 

Now, as for the new riddle ... I'm not sure but it might well be Treebeard... only what event?


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 22, 2003)

I will!!!  

Anyway,yes you are right about Treebeard and how about the event...?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 22, 2003)

Hum...Hum...

Could it be the council of the ents?


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 22, 2003)

You're close....... 
but still!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 22, 2003)

I got it!
I goti!
I GOT IT!!!!!

It's when the Orcs cut trees... the *living* trees!


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *I got it!
> I goti!
> I GOT IT!!!!!
> ...



CORRECT!!!
I knew you are a talented girl and you'll get it immediately!!! 
Anyway, your turn now!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 22, 2003)

URA! 
Now:

*************
Over dales and planes
Over rivers and mountains 
They flew

Over pearl cities and misty woods
Over grief and joy
They flew

But death was in their claws
And sorrow under their wings!

Two they bore 
From of death the shore
To of life the door
Two they bore.
****************


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 23, 2003)

> Over dales and planes
> Over rivers and mountains
> They flew



These are Beren, Luthien who fly, carried by Torondor and his eagles.



> Over pearl cities and misty woods
> Over grief and joy
> They flew



This is the moment when they pass over Gondolin, where Turgon dwelt and she starts to cry.



> But death was in their claws
> And sorrow under their wings!



But she cried because she thought Beren was death.



> Two they bore
> From of death the shore
> To of life the door
> Two they bore.



They actually ran from the death of Carharoth,who bit the Silmaril from Beren's hand and thus died. 

Is that correct?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 24, 2003)

PERRRRRRFECT!!!!!! 

Your turn!


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 24, 2003)

All it started ....

In wilderness they all fighted.
No trees and animals there were to scream...
The end was near- clearly it seemed.
All were mighty and one was mightiest of all,
the Dark one, the Evil and the Tall!

But a Savior then came,
the Strong was he of fame.
His laughter, anger and power
drove the Evil away to His tower.
Vigour he revealed and vigour he meant...

All started to end...

-------
That's for you, Lhun! 
But anyway, others can participate too. Since nobody seems to do so..


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 24, 2003)

Morgoth and Tulaks - fight

I got it again!


----------



## Finduilas (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *Morgoth and Tulaks - fight
> 
> I got it again!    *



 AU! And I've just tought it! 
Well, you're the best Lhun!!! 
But....now it's your turn .....again!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Go beat us!!!!!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 7, 2003)

I love this game! 

I.........wonder why the others don't ..... 

Anyway, here's one for you Findi...or maybe for somebody else out there  It's easy:

******
Two sat
One jumped
One came up
Two sat
One hit
One dead lay
One escaped away.
*******

Well?


----------



## Bethelarien (May 8, 2003)

Turin's rescue by and slaying of Beleg Cuthalion?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 10, 2003)

Nope!


----------



## Beleg (May 11, 2003)

Sam and Frodo at Morgul vale?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 11, 2003)

Na!


----------



## Beleg (May 13, 2003)

Any Hint Lhun!!! Atleast tell to which book does it belong????  pweahse?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 13, 2003)

what book?... hu... 

Now...a hint:

The one that jumped and came up FOUND sth !


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 15, 2003)

Whatzzup, folks?   

Noone?


----------



## Beleg (May 15, 2003)

This is sooo difficult  Can't even think of anything. Anyother Hint?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 15, 2003)

Hahahaha!   

OK!...
The two that sat were in a boat.

Well?


----------



## Anamatar IV (May 15, 2003)

There we go....

Deagol finding the ring, Smeagol throttling him.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 15, 2003)

Hehe!
Finally!!! 

But with this HUGE hint...who couldn't have guessed?!   

YOUR TURN!!!!


----------



## Finduilas (May 23, 2003)

Let's liven up this thread! 
I wish to post a riddle if Anamatar doesn't mind...
Anyway,it's very easy and I'm sure Lhun will get it in no time! 

* * *
Eye to eye and mind to mind,
only sorrow passes by,only sorrow is to find...

Still she stood,still she was...
still,no mood;and was spelled thus...

Eye to eye,mind to mind...
eye to eye,but now mind IN mind!

Her memory was gone...
her memory he won...

Her memory was gone,
thus her doom he won!


----------



## Beleg (May 23, 2003)

Niniel


----------



## Finduilas (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow _
> *Niniel *



 Right. And the occasion?


----------



## Beleg (May 23, 2003)

Lol, I really have no idea about the occasion. 

But just a guess,

When she climed off Cabed-en-aras?


----------



## Finduilas (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow _
> *Lol, I really have no idea about the occasion.
> 
> But just a guess,
> ...



Nope,raed more carefully:



> Still she stood,still she was...
> still,no mood;*and was spelled thus...*



Now?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 24, 2003)

meeting Glaurung's eyes?


----------



## Finduilas (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *meeting Glaurung's eyes? *



Correct! 

Your turn...!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 24, 2003)

Aaaaa! NO!
This is becoming a "private" thread - mine and Findi's  

Why!?!
The game is such a fun and yet it still brings some education!

But if it's my turn, then I'll come up with sth.


----------



## Hirila (May 25, 2003)

Well, in fact you have been too fast answering your riddles. 
So, if you don't like this becoming too private I take the opportunity and ask you for that one:


As always is, there is a question,
Two anwers waiting for a choice.

"Live you do, when here you stay.
Love you do, when home you go."

Love she chose, forsaking life,
Winning sung immortality.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 25, 2003)

Luthien?


----------



## Hirila (May 25, 2003)

You're right. But as you have said on a much earlier occasion:
what event?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 25, 2003)

Could it be the "judgement" Mandos gave to her?


----------



## Hirila (May 26, 2003)

I wouldn't call it a "Judgment". But I'm sure you mean the very event. 

Lhun, you definitely are too good. No wonder no other players come here!  Your turn.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 26, 2003)

Hehe! 

OK... I'll have to think of sth. good.

I only wonder why people show a little interest to this game!  

I'll come up with sth. later today.
******
Here it comes:

Long time ago
I fell from the dark. 
No Master I had
But my Masters's blood
I drank with delight.

I shone with dark shine
I spoke in dark rhymes
And everlasting freedom I brought
To him - who desperate death sought.
******


I think this one is easy.


----------



## Beleg (May 26, 2003)

That's Gurthang, Turin's sword.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 26, 2003)

I told you - it was easy! 

Your turn!


----------



## Beleg (May 27, 2003)

The captain was a man of great vigor,
and power he wore unmatched.
Our person wasn't the captain of the group
that walked quickly northwards.

He was the eldest,
one of wisest and fairest,
the last was he of them,
that talked to the captain.

Aragon s/o Arathon, thou bearest resembelence to thy ancestor, of whom we arth guessing.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 27, 2003)

Wait a minute!!!!
This is *NOT* the "Who or what am I"-thread of the GoOiE!  

We need an event here!!!

But...I'll think about your riddle! 

.....Mmmmm...... is it Elendur - Isildur's son?
The event could be when he asked his father to go away with the cursed ring and try escape the Orcs' ambush at the Gladden fields.


----------



## Beleg (May 27, 2003)

You know what Lhun! I thought the exact words before I posted my riddle. You are offcourse correct. I originally wanted to make it the disaster of Gladden Fields but...oh well..

Your turn... *Gets ready for a long, hard riddle that''ll the peal the skin of my brain*


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 27, 2003)

Hehe! 

I will really think of sth. "brain-skin-pilling"


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *Hehe!
> 
> I will really think of sth. "brain-skin-pilling"   *


How about this one:

******
There was a time
a time of war and woe,
the earth burnt in flame
and hard it was 
to tell a friend from a foe.

But from the North and South
in that old forest we met.
and the stairs of time 
to immortality us led.

A new kingdom was thus born
a new realm of true friends
that in peace and in war
there stand till this world ends.
*******


----------



## Finduilas (May 28, 2003)

I know this is not correct,but we have to start from somewhere,don't we? 
Melian and Thingol?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 28, 2003)

Nope!


----------



## Beleg (May 29, 2003)

Meeting of Beren and Luthien? Beren coming from Taur-nu-Fuin upnorth and Menegroth being south of Forest of Neldoreth. 

Although the rest of the riddle is puzzling...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 29, 2003)

No. 
Don't be fooled by the line about the old forest! It is NOT the most indicative one!


----------



## Finduilas (May 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *No.
> Don't be fooled by the line about the old forest! It is NOT the most indicative one!  *



Then are the key words 'war','immortality','kingdom' and 'friends'?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 29, 2003)

I thought .....this time - NO clues... but...OK... 

key words: "war", "stairs", immortality", new kingdom" friendship


----------



## Finduilas (May 29, 2003)

Thank you,Lhun!  
And sorry for ruining your initial plans...  

Now to serious work.could this possibly be Earendil and Elwing during the War of Wrath?Earendil after asking for the Valar's help,towered above Aman and there he was *immortal* .And Elwing went to Aman as well,in order to be with her dearest love.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 29, 2003)

Sorry! No! 
Wrong time period... The event is much later


----------



## Finduilas (May 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *Sorry! No!
> Wrong time period... The event is much later *



Hey,is it possible to be during the Third Age and The Final Battle of the Ring?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 29, 2003)

A bit earlier


----------



## Finduilas (May 29, 2003)

GALADRIEL! GALADRIEL! GALADRIEL AND KELEBORN!
AND LORIEN!
Are they?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 30, 2003)

NO! NO! NO!   
A bit later...


----------



## Theoden (May 30, 2003)

I just happened upon this thread and have never tried a game like this but here it goes:

Gollum and Frodo on the Stairs of Cirith Ungol leading to Shelob's lair?

-me


----------



## Theoden (May 30, 2003)

or perhaps Frodo and Sam walking up Mt. Doom...?

-me


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 30, 2003)

Hi, King of the Golden Hall! 
It's good to have a new mind involved in the game!

But you're still not correct.
The event I have in mind is earlier than the events you described.

Look at one of my earlier posts where I have pointed out to several key-words.


----------



## Theoden (May 30, 2003)

Goodness... hmm.... after Galadriel... before Shelob...hmm....

Stairs. War. New Kingdom. Imortality. Friendship.

hmm...

perhaps Merry and Pippin right before they meat Treebeard. Stairs. The war is that of Isengard. New Kingdom: Gondor...? Imortality of the Ents, and the new friendship between Treebeard and the hobbits.

I know that is a stretch and not the right answer... but this is turning into a guessing game. 

-me


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 30, 2003)

Nope...

The event is much earlier than the War of the Ring.


----------



## Theoden (May 30, 2003)

ok... I just read the other posts back a ways.
I am getting then that this answer is to be found in the Sil, and although I have read it twice (which may be laughable to some), I do not know it that well and I do not have a copy of my own. So...
Clueless.

-me


----------



## Beleg (May 30, 2003)

> "war", "stairs", immortality", new kingdom" friendship



Stairs=Dimril Stair...
Immortality=?
New Kingdom=Erebor
Friendship=Men of Dale and Dwarves?


But this seems to have to do nothing with the actual riddle...

No idea at the moment...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 30, 2003)

Keep trying  

It's about mortals...but not Dwarves


----------



## Celebthôl (May 30, 2003)

Where Eol the young came and saved Gondor?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 30, 2003)

The event from the riddle is right after this.

Well???


----------



## Finduilas (May 30, 2003)

I was thinking of Aldarion and Erendis.....?


----------



## Anamatar IV (May 30, 2003)

Bleh. That's an evil riddle, Lhun.

It's Cirion and Eorl climbing the stairs to Elendil's grave, creating a friendship that will last eternity, and Cirion giving Eorl Caledhron (sp?), or, Rohan.

It's from UT.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 31, 2003)

"evil" ???!!!
Common! Otherwise the fun is spoiled1 

But FINALLY! You have guessed it, Anamatar.

So, how about another "evil" ?


----------



## Anamatar IV (May 31, 2003)

And two did lie upon their backs
Gazing skyward into the stars
One spoke, saying surely it is
The other, his brother consented
And thought it best for all that it was


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 1, 2003)

WOW! Any hint? Just a little one...


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jun 1, 2003)

Another few lines:

The thing that they saw
Was that that they sought


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 2, 2003)

Hehe!
Sure!
If these "two" had taken the "pain" to lie on their backs and discuss what they were watching.... they must have certainly looked for it...

And..... what about hinting the time...the Age at least... A? Pweeeze? (this one's for "please"  )


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jun 2, 2003)

1st age, the two are brothers.

Is that enough?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> 
> Is that enough?


Na!  

Brothers.... Mmmm.... Of brothers we know the Feanorens, and then.... the sons of Fingolfin....

Why don't you hint on the event itself?


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jun 2, 2003)

err no not really without giving it away...but I'll try.

It was at night time and that was why they could see it.


----------



## Bethelarien (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm almost hoping I'm wrong....

Two of the sons of Feanor looking at the star of Earendil? My reasoning is thus: They sought the Silmarils, and legend has it that the Star of Earendil was indeed one of the Silmarils, set in the heavens by Varda herself.


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jun 4, 2003)

Exactly! Your turn, Beth.


----------



## Bethelarien (Jun 4, 2003)

Awww, crap.

What do I do? I've never done this before. *note to self: NEVER, EVER guess something in here again!*


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jun 4, 2003)

You just make a riddle about an event in Middle-earth. It doesn't need to rhyme or anything.


----------



## Bethelarien (Jun 4, 2003)

Thanks for being so....helpful.  Do I have a limited amount of time?


----------



## Beleg (Jun 5, 2003)

Well, you can post whenever you want.  But it would be better if you post in the near future!


----------



## Bethelarien (Jun 5, 2003)

Working on it, working on it! What with the debates and all, I'm really broadening my horizons!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 8, 2003)

Beth, I am sorry to have taken your turn, but it just came into my mind so I decided to post it 

*****

Birds are flying in troubled skies
flying to search the land
where the soul never dies
where the troubles and woes find their end.

Birds are flying;
But strange are they -
nor wings, no feathers, 
yet through the heavy air 
they fly to where all Men's hope gathers.

******


----------



## Beleg (Jun 8, 2003)

Earendil's voyage to seek the Blessed realm?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 8, 2003)

Sorry! No!


----------



## Eriol (Jun 8, 2003)

The Numenorean aircraft alluded to in Idril's Space Travel post in the Annals of the Eldanyare


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 8, 2003)

LOL Eriol, it is REALLY about the Numenoren ships, although I was inspired by the Lost Road than by that article (which I downloaded for reading but still haven't) 

But yes, these are the Numenorean Ships of the Exiled flying in the heavy air that flowed all over ME after the seas were bent. They flew to search the straight road to the Blessed realm.

OK now...

YOUR TURN for a riddle


----------



## Bethelarien (Jun 9, 2003)

Actually, Lhun, THANK YOU for taking my turn. I was nowhere near coming up with a good riddle. It's harder than it looks, I'm finding out.


----------



## Eriol (Jun 9, 2003)

I would give you my turn, Beth, if I didn't have such a good one:

What have I got in my pockets?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eriol _
> *I would give you my turn, Beth, if I didn't have such a good one:
> 
> What have I got in my pockets?
> ...


Wicked, wicked ! 

So...let's see.... 
Thief! You have stolen my preciousssssss!
It's minessss!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 15, 2003)

A new riddle for you all:

*********
We stand alone
We stand there armed
We guard the lands
We guard the time.

We'll stand alone
We'll stand there armed
We'll guard the lands
Until we're defeated by time.
*********


----------



## Beleg (Jun 16, 2003)

Argonath


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 16, 2003)

Eeeeeeasy! 

Your turn


----------



## Beleg (Jun 17, 2003)

The had reached the chief dwelling,
which was no longer the capital
and a great host of dark they were
could only be repelled by forces of south

a battle was faught, many were slain
Ulairi were allready retreating
when the horsemen played their part.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 18, 2003)

It must have sth. with Osgilliath...I guess...
But which battle....?


----------



## Beleg (Jun 18, 2003)

Nope, nothing to do with Osgillath.


----------



## Hirila (Jun 18, 2003)

The battle at Minas Tirith!
Dark forces: Suaron's forces
forces of south: Aragorn coming on the ships from the south
horsemen: the Rohirrim came and saved the day and the battle was won.

Come on, that was easy.


__________________________

In the beginning a pair they were.
Then they were four.
When being six, two more arrived.
And still there were not all.
Two by two and three they came. 
Being as much as in real life.
__________________________


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 18, 2003)

About the previous riddle, but why was Minas T. not more a capital?  

About the present - the Elves awakening?


----------



## Hirila (Jun 22, 2003)

Why Minas Tirith no longer the capital?
That I do not know myself. But this battle is the only event I can think of coming close to the riddle.

No, it's not the Elves awakening.

btw, I made a little mistake in my riddle I only noticed now. Please reread it.


----------



## Beleg (Jun 22, 2003)

Actually Hirila, The event I had in mind is different then the one you posted.
It was the final battle between Angmar, and the forces of Arnor, Gondor and the Elves of Lindon. 

And to the present riddle,

the coming of Dwarves to Beorn's home.


----------



## Hirila (Jun 25, 2003)

Beleg, you're smarter than I am. You've got it right.

But to my rescue (or shame?) I have to admit I don't know anything about the battle between Angmar et al.
And you have to admit, my solution to your riddle suits perfectly!

Okay then, try it again. Perhaps I get it right this time.


----------



## Beleg (Jun 26, 2003)

This is something not written by me. 
Can anyone tell what is the hidden event in this stanza? 
The lines hint towards the involvement and the journey of a person.
This passage is from a Tolkien book written by the master himself. 
 	


 	

in the long and lonely sea,	
of islands by deep spells beguiled
where dwell the Elvenkind:
in seven long years the road to Heaven	
or the Living Land did you find?’


----------



## Manveru (Jun 26, 2003)

I am not sure I've fully understood...
Is it the Journey of Earendil?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 26, 2003)

Is it Tuor speaking to Voronwe?


----------



## Beleg (Jun 28, 2003)

None of them. 
Maveru is close though.


----------



## BlackCaptain (Jul 8, 2003)

Could it be a man trying to reach the Undying Lands? When it says 'Or the Living Land did you find?' I think that means Middle Earth... I remember reading some where that you could go around the earth and just land back on Middle Earth, because the undying lands were removed from the world, and since the world is round, you'd land back on Middle Earth.

So it's kind of like if Australia was the only continent in the world, you could spend 7 years trying to reach Atlantis by going around the world, but you'd just land back on the other side of Australia. Haha something like that...


----------



## Beleg (Jul 8, 2003)

Well, obviously It is a person sailing towards Undying lands. Now that you have reached so far, just tell the journey and the name of the person.


----------



## BlackCaptain (Jul 8, 2003)

Tuor? I can't remember Tolkien ever telling us that he did in fact reach the Undying Lands...


----------



## Beleg (Jul 8, 2003)

Countless generations away. 

I never thought this would be *This* difficult!!


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jul 8, 2003)

Voronwe's journey as one of the seven messengers sent by Turgon?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 8, 2003)

This is what I suggested, Anamatar, but Beleg said "No!"


----------



## Eriol (Jul 8, 2003)

It's me, in my journey.


----------



## BlackCaptain (Jul 8, 2003)

Oh! I just started reading BoLT I and I saw the name Eriol and I thought of you! *Claps hands* Yay!  

Countless generations huh? Literaly? Or just lots of generations away... I'm sure if I thought hard enough I could recall some time-warp thingy that never even happened.

Ok I'm a little tired... Excuse me if I'm going on about nothing


----------



## Beleg (Jul 11, 2003)

Eriol, offcourse is correct, but since he is not here....Anyone can post....


----------



## Manveru (Jul 12, 2003)

*Guess the event...*

Perhaps an 'easy' one, but... 
Here it is:

_He stood there like a tower,
In black armour was clad.
I gleamed beneath that coward
like a star, both raged and sad._


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 12, 2003)

Morgoth?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 12, 2003)

We are suppose to describe an 'event' for others to guess, right? (I'm not fully familiar with this thread)

So, boss... yep... Morgoth is playing a part in that *event*, but...

What is the 'other' involved in it and what's the event I'm looking for in my 'riddle'?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 12, 2003)

Right!  

How about Luthien in front of Morgoth at the Quest for the Silmaril with Beren as a wolf somewhere behind Melkor's throne?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 13, 2003)

Nope... keep guessing


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jul 13, 2003)

Morgoth and Fingolfin?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 13, 2003)

Yep... Your turn, Anamatar


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jul 13, 2003)

An elder met a younger
On a sunny morning
All welcomes by the younger
Were scolded by the elder
The elder left but would return soon
And would hardly be alone


----------



## Manveru (Jul 13, 2003)

Gandalf's meeting with Bilbo that morning when everything happened... right?
Then Gandalf returned with the dwarves...


----------



## Anamatar IV (Jul 13, 2003)

yup! Your turn.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 13, 2003)

GRRRRRRRRR


----------



## Manveru (Jul 13, 2003)

Don't You worry, boss...

I'm thinking of another riddle  I'll try to post it as soon as possible (tomorrow morning--I think).


----------



## Manveru (Jul 14, 2003)

*OK, here's another...*

What is the event described below? (I tried to make it look like a riddle-poem... I like them very much, maybe my goal is accomplished in some way)

_When the mighty Elven-City was falling,
Two stood there in arms against one another
In the very square of the King.
One connected with the 'Water'
The other - Lord of 'Fiery Thing'.
And in the end... each slew the other._


----------



## Beleg (Jul 15, 2003)

Ecthelion of the Fountain against Gothmog Lord of Balrog. 
Fight between Ecthelion and Gothmog.


----------



## Manveru (Jul 15, 2003)

Of course...

You're next, Beleg


----------



## Manveru (Aug 6, 2003)

C'mon, Beleg...

It's your turn... or maybe you don't want to post another... if so, let us know (this thread will die out in other way--and I wouldn't want that)

Let the game continue...


----------



## Beleg (Aug 6, 2003)

Oops, didn't see this thread, I wonder why. 

Anyway as for the riddle, let's see.

Hints.

1. Quendi and Eldar.
2. Maglor
3. Ships.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow _
> *Oops, didn't see this thread, I wonder why.
> 
> Anyway as for the riddle, let's see.
> ...


??????????????????????????????????????    
What was that?
We were expecting you to post a new riddle...
It looks like you placed this post here instead of some other place... LOL...Wake up, young Esquire!


----------



## Beleg (Aug 7, 2003)

If You are a real elf-lover,
you should read Quendi and Eldar,
and also Annals of Aman, 
to read about Meadhros and Maglor
Later was a mighty singer, 
making great laments,
alas one is know to us, 
I ask what it was based on. 


***


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 7, 2003)

Are you asking what event was sadly sung about in the rhymes of Maglor?
Because if this is the question... well.... what could it be than the whole sad history of the exiled Noldor?...Or maybe about the Silmarils... 

No, no! Let's make the question a bit clearer. Please ?


----------



## Beleg (Aug 9, 2003)

As far as I can recollect, the name of only lament of Maglor is given in the histories. And Maglor made that lament due to a special event. I am just asking that event.

I cannot be clearer then this without giving out the name.


----------



## Hirila (Sep 7, 2003)

Good God, Beleg, couldn't you provide the answer? The way I see it, everyone's afraid of guessing, because noone's got the answer.
You're the one to bring this thread back to life.


----------



## Beleg (Sep 7, 2003)

Noldolantë is the answer.
Guess anyone's up.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 26, 2003)

*WAKE UP!!*

C'mon you all... it's time to bring this (excellent!) thread back to life (after that super-ultra-hard-one by our "unstoppable" bro, Beleg). I think it's time for a little easier one, don't you think? (just to 'revive' this place). Here it goes (please, forget me for writing in verse, but... _my soul sings..._):

_In forest dense,
In shadows deep,
There wanders a soul
That is hard to 'keep'.

There wanders a soul...
Where sunbeams ever sleep.
But she's not alone...
Keen eyes always peep._

Alll righty then... what's the event described above?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 27, 2003)

Can it be Beren searching for Luthien?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 27, 2003)

Hmm... nope

I thought it'll be easy...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 27, 2003)

How about the other couple - Thingol and Melian?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 27, 2003)

How about giving it another try? (three times should be enough---and, hey, don't mention that Thingol guy's name).

So...


----------



## Beleg (Sep 27, 2003)

something to do with Niniel?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg _
> *something to do with Niniel? *


Nope... but with Nan Elmoth.

Gosh... I guess my 'poetry' sucks... sorry


----------



## Beleg (Sep 27, 2003)

The fleeing of Aredhel?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 27, 2003)

Hmm... what am I going to do with that?
Aredhel is indeed one of the persons I was looking for, but... I was looking for other event than her fleeing (I guess I'm too "touchy" today, sorry for that... I thought it'd be really easy, but I guess I didn't give too many details). I'm looking for a meeting... Beleg, you have one person, the other is missing. I guess you know already of whom I speak... (now it's too much of a hint)

So c'mon... let's finish it...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 28, 2003)

Aredhel - wandering lost in Nan Elmoth where Eöl, the Dark Elf met her and took her for his wife.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 28, 2003)

BINGO!

I guess you're next, Lhun.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 28, 2003)

Not without Beleg's help!!!! Thanks Beleg! 

Here comes minethe verses are awful!)

A plan I have
A plan my happiness to get.
But I'll sit here lonely and alone
Until the day is gone.
And obedient I'll be
And kind and quiet and prudent
But when the night falls 
Into a shadow in the forest I'll turn
And I'll be gone
My happiness to seek.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 28, 2003)

Hmm... maybe Luthien preparing (waiting) to follow Beren in his quest?


----------



## Hirila (Oct 1, 2003)

Or to stick with the former:
Aredhel preparing to leave Eol?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 2, 2003)

I admit both of these options could well apply as an answer  ...But when I wrote it I thought of Luthien. 
So, Man-v-Eru  , it's your turn again!


----------



## Manveru (Oct 5, 2003)

OK, here's another one:

_I wanted to save my life
As I once did.
So I led them pretty high...
I'm not proud of that deed._

Who is "I" and "them"? What is the event?


----------



## Beleg (Oct 5, 2003)

'I' is Mim and 'Them' is Turin's band of outlaws. The event described probably is Mim leading them to his quarters in Amon Rudh.


----------



## Manveru (Oct 5, 2003)

Well, well, well...

"I" is correct. The rest needs to be changed a little... (read the second line of my riddle--it's crucial).

Why are my 'riddles' always so confusing?...


----------



## Beleg (Oct 5, 2003)

Then 'them' must be the orcs. The ambush of Orcs upon the company of Outlaws at Amon Rudh and the capturing of Turin.


----------



## Manveru (Oct 5, 2003)

That's right... you're right. Mim saved his life _once again_ that time... and he led the orcs to his 'house'. 

You're up, bro.


----------



## Beleg (Oct 5, 2003)

Can't come up with anything at the moment. 

Will come up with something later.


----------



## Manveru (Oct 13, 2003)

Since Beleg has sth different on his mind at the moment... and I (and others, too, I hope) want to see this thread 'get going'... so I guess anyone can post now (any volunteers? c'mon... who's first?).
If no one wants to... I can come up with sth... later today


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 13, 2003)

I'll try one 

(no poetic inspiration tonight!  )


_It talks to me and I'm listening
enchanted tales of yore
of kings of old
of Gods in bliss
of what my heart's 
desired more...

It talks to me and I'm listening
of roads to run
of coasts afar
where gulls cry in the eve

It talks to me ...

Enchanted... its road I go 
to find my destiny
and love...._


----------



## Gil-Galad (Oct 13, 2003)

No poetic inspiration?!You are a real poet,and one of the best one I've ever read!!!!!!!!You are the best and most famous Wraith Poet!


----------



## Manveru (Oct 13, 2003)

Hmm... I don't read poetry... I don't write poetry, either... but this looks to me as POETRY, boss

BTW: You probably want a 'possible' answer rather than a 'flattery', right?

Can it be Tuor in Vinyamar? I guess he dreamt there... and it seems to me that all fits perfectly.


----------



## Gil-Galad (Oct 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Manveru _
> *Hmm... I don't read poetry... I don't write poetry, either... but this looks to me as POETRY, boss
> 
> BTW: You probably want a 'possible' answer rather than a 'flattery', right?
> ...


hmmh....... I think you are right bro!!!It should be Tuor.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 14, 2003)

Tuor he is!
But what about the other character?
What about the event? 

-----

And that "poetry" s***ed!


----------



## Manveru (Oct 14, 2003)

OK... we've got Tuor... let's dig deeper

Ulmo, Lord of Waters, talking to Tuor... bidding him to go and search for a 'hidden realm', Gondolin. How's that, boss?


----------



## Gil-Galad (Oct 14, 2003)

I think it's perfect blue angel!!!!!But let's see what the boss will say!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Manveru _
> *OK... we've got Tuor... let's dig deeper
> 
> Ulmo, Lord of Waters, talking to Tuor... bidding him to go and search for a 'hidden realm', Gondolin. How's that, boss?
> ...



Hotter and hotter.... The only thing left now is to say _where_


----------



## Manveru (Oct 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *Hotter and hotter.... The only thing left now is to say where  *



Detailed, huh? It's good I slept well last night... let me think, hmm...

Nevrast? (c'mon, boss... say it fits... or maybe do you want more details? I think it was on a beach---I hope it wasn't called in particular... 'cause I don't think I could remember it anyway...)

If it's wrong... well... I give up...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 15, 2003)

LOL 

Here it is:
UT:


> Thus it came to pass that on a day in the beginning of the year (twenty and three since Nirnaeth) Tuor sat by a spring that trickled forth near to the door of the cave where he dwelt; and he looked out westward towards the cloudy sunset. Then suddenly it came into his heart that he would wait no longer, but would arise and go. "I will leave now the grey land of my kin that are no more," he cried, "and I will go in search of my doom! But whither shall I turn? Long have I sought the Gate and found it not."
> Then he took up harp which he bore ever with him, being skilled in playing upon its strings, and heedless of the peril of his clear voice alone in the waste he sang an elven-song of the North for the uplifting of hearts. And even as he sang the well at his feet began to boil with great increase of water, and it overflowed, and a rill ran noisily down the rocky hillside before him.


That was it!
That picture....I don't know why....But it is stuck into my mind... So...I gave it in this game 

Well...I guess Blue Angel, it's your turn...


----------



## Manveru (Oct 15, 2003)

I guess those UT becoming a real _nightmare_ to me...

THX... I'll post soon.
I'm a little 'intellectually' devastated...


----------



## Manveru (Oct 16, 2003)

_Swift as an arrow
Or maybe even swifter
Flew Mighty King of Winds
To the precipice... thither.

Hearing a sorrowful lament
That'd squeeze the toughest heart
"Make haste, O Great Bird!"
He made it on time... unused became a "dart"._


----------



## Starbrow (Oct 17, 2003)

Does this have to do with Maedhros being chained to a cliff and rescued by an eagle?


----------



## Manveru (Oct 18, 2003)

Yeah, Starbrow, it does... Tell me whose 'shaft' was stopped... who tried to rescue Maedhros? Tell me... and you'll be next to 'ask'

(sorry... for being so "scrupulous", but I think that this name should be mentioned... after all, "he" was renowned thanx to that deed)


----------



## Starbrow (Oct 19, 2003)

It was Fingon who rescued Maedhros. I had to look it up - I can never keep all those Fin... elves straight.


Here's my poor attempt at poetry.

From him, his kingdom was torn.
Now he wandered, desperate and worn
To the place his Fathers were born.
There he was slain and by evil marked.

For his companion, a token of scorn.
The Son says, "This cannot be born."
To revenge the death, the kin have all sworn.
Thus the war of vengeance was sparked.


----------



## BlackCaptain (Oct 30, 2003)

Feanor?


----------



## Starbrow (Oct 30, 2003)

Nope. Try another race.


----------



## Manveru (Oct 31, 2003)

Is it Turin Turambar that you're looking for, Starbrow?


----------



## Starbrow (Oct 31, 2003)

Not human either.


----------



## Hirila (Nov 12, 2003)

I guess it is not Thorin, going back to the Lonely Mountain, the lost kingdom of his fathers, and being slain there?


----------



## Starbrow (Nov 13, 2003)

No, but you're getting warm.


----------



## Manveru (Jan 22, 2004)

*Got it!...*

It's *Thror*, grandfather of Thorin Oaken Shield, who died in Moria, to where he returned being "withdrown" from his kingdom by Smaug...
After his death his kin, first Thrain and then Thorin, sworn to avenge him and get back what is theirs...

So easy... but I'll wait for Starbrow to confirm it (hope quick enough, this thread needs "dustin' off"...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 24, 2004)

I'd suggest we take Manv's answer as correct and give the game a new loop. 

Angel??? It's your turn.... but make it easy!


----------



## Manveru (Jan 24, 2004)

Thank you, thank you, thank you... *bows, weeping the floor with his wings*

Hmm... easy one, eh? Okay, be my guest...

"What did my younger sis say when she saw Shelob creeping after Frodo?"
(just kidding... but if you want...)

Here it is:

_Rode quick as the wind swift,
A ''tall staff'' brought as a gift.
With word from a kind heart
The King'd know what to do with that._

So... who does this riddle tell of and what event it is? (good luck)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 24, 2004)

Hmmm... I am thinking of Gandalf... but the event.... It might be Gandalf coming to Meduseld or to Isengard....  

Am I close?


----------



## Manveru (Jan 24, 2004)

Hurray, hurray!!!
This thread is alive... finally alive!!
But...
Sorry, _wraith_... will have to try again (not even close, sorry... I knew this 'staff' thingy would be misleading *evil laughter* oops... *angelic grin* of course)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 24, 2004)

**... whirls the wraith in anger...***
Angel, I demand a hint!


----------



## Manveru (Jan 24, 2004)

Hmm... how could I turn down a request of such a kind... so polite... so... _wraithish_?  

HINT: the colour is gray...

well...


----------



## Manveru (Jan 28, 2004)

Hmm... "that" hard or does no one pay any attention to this thread?
Okay...
Another one...

HINT #2: This person travelled in a _company_ (now put it together with that colour provided above and... you're close)


----------



## Starflower (Jan 28, 2004)

I dont know the rules of the game... What do I have to tell you ? the person? the event? both ?


----------



## Manveru (Jan 28, 2004)

Well, it's the "Event game", so telling it should be enough, but (as one _wraith_ "tortured" me once with every single tiny detail... I... I will... do the same...kidding).
There are always some persons involved in every event, right? Just looking for their names and what was all about... too complicated? (tell me, cause sometimes I may galloped myself too far... don't want to make it too difficult).
So...


----------



## Hirila (Jan 28, 2004)

I keep thinking of something that happened between Gandalf and the eagles... But I can't figure out if that's correct...

But then, let me think loud, so maybe others can conclude what it is...
-the person in question... rode quick as the wind
-brought a "staff", brought the members of the company in question
-brought nice words
-a king knew what to do with that
-color is gray...

Did Gandalf ever bring some people to a place where a king was delighted about this? Or did the King of Eagles bring his people to a place...

Manveru: Is it the eagles coming to the Morannon for the last battle?


----------



## Manveru (Jan 28, 2004)

Sorry miss H., nothing to do with the eagles... and Gandalf... leave him, too... he's "outta town" one may say... (I know, this riding "swift", and "staff" and that colour...).

HINT #3: Those "loud" thoughts of Hirila are good, even very good... just stop thinking of Gandalf... better think about that _kind heart_ and which _king_ was involved in here 
(geesh, now it's too easy...)


----------



## Finduilas (Jan 28, 2004)

That;s Elrond!


Elrond carrying a message to Aragorn, *King* of Gondor, and a *long staff* for his kingship!
Also *kind words* from Arwen!
Am I right?


----------



## Manveru (Jan 28, 2004)

Nope. Try again... but you're close, little one


----------



## Hirila (Jan 28, 2004)

The movie has kind of splattered my knowledge of the book, and I haven't read it in a while so I can't remember every detail... but:

Is it the Dunedain that came swift as the wind (didn't they say thez heard Aragorn needed some help?). They brought other Dunedain and Elladan and Elrohir, who brought kind words from both Elrond and of course Arwen but also telling him that something that made him go for the Paths of the Dead in the Mountains...


----------



## Finduilas (Jan 28, 2004)

Yes, Hirila, we're thinking the same! 

Well, as Hirila said and the Guy is Halbarad?


----------



## Hirila (Jan 28, 2004)

So you and I are right, Findi? 
Wow, great. that was... well... a tough one.
But who get's to post the next riddle? (I mean, I only knew half of it.)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 29, 2004)

Ladies, 

B R A V A!!! 

How clear it is now that you solved the riddle!

I now suggest that each of you prepare a riddle and as Hirila was 1-st to post the 1-st half of the Angel's riddle, it'd be fair to let her go first with her riddle. After it is done, comes our "little one" 

Hirila, you're most welcome to post your riddle.


----------



## Manveru (Jan 29, 2004)

Mmmm... being "worked out" by the ladies... interesting
Good job!!
Now you see how easy that riddle was (just as our _wraith_ wished it to be).

*awaiting another one*


----------



## Finduilas (Jan 29, 2004)

Yes! 
Go, Hirila!

*sits behind the _wraith_ and the angel*...._hmmm...what a strange combination_


----------



## Hirila (Jan 29, 2004)

I've got one ready, but it's in the pffice. Wait another 2 or 3 hours and it'll be posted right here. 
Congratulations Findi. I hardly ever remember the names of the people. 

See you later...

[edit]

Here it is:

she knew songs lore, a short deed followed, left something hollowed


----------



## Manveru (Jan 29, 2004)

Hirila said:


> Here it is:
> 
> she knew songs lore, a short deed followed, left something hollowed


Lúthien... making her "performance" at the bridge of the tower of Sauron...??
How's that?


----------



## Hirila (Jan 30, 2004)

Sorry, my dear, no.
But close.


----------



## Manveru (Jan 30, 2004)

Close, hmm... are you looking for... Melian?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 30, 2004)

Hm... Could it be Luthien enchanting Melkor and leaving him without one of the Silmarils?


----------



## Manveru (Jan 31, 2004)

grrr... guess so, _wraith_...
gee... my thoughts always go to... Melian
guess you're next, but let's wait for Hirila...


----------



## Hirila (Jan 31, 2004)

Again, sorry Manveru, Lhun was perfectly right.

But now it's Findi's turn, I thought. Go Findi Go!


----------



## Finduilas (Jan 31, 2004)

My turn?..gosh..did it really come?  

I wish to once again set a riddle about a scene we have discussed many times...and yet its perfection enchantes us...

So here I go:

_A tender voice of lilac flute
and purple rain of lethe and desire.
Oblivion of birth and youth,
of people, water and of fire.

A fairy strip of innocence and splendour
and whole new world of calmness and desire.
A tree, a flower and a bird of wonder
and then a miracle in gorgeous tire.

A glade, a star and quick of glance,
and light no mortal could inspire.
Then gaze and preface to prelude,
that would last without a hire.

A silence in eternity and ever,
in two eyes as vivid as the rainbow.
Then spell, that would last till never
and glimpse, and touch and mighty soul.

Trees of forest of no greatness
that stood ever with no fear.
And two lovers, loving in their silence,
and whisper: "I love you, dear."_


----------



## Manveru (Jan 31, 2004)

Excellent riddle, little one... though... I wonder whose 'fate' it tells of... 
Maybe someone else would be so kind as to join the game?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 1, 2004)

Gosh, Findi... What a poetry!! I AM impressed!!

This beauty of rhymes almost blinded my mind ... But... say, Fair Lady, is this when Thingol meets Melian and falls under her enchantment for long long years?
Though... their story is so much similar to that of Beren and Luthien that I wonder.... which of these two you have interwoven in your tender verses?


----------



## Manveru (Feb 1, 2004)

Aha, I was also thinking about Melian (actually, still am--constantly), but B&L is so similar to this (at least both couples' meetings). I guess the answer lies hidden in "details"... deep into details... 
So... _wraith_, you wanna try?
(I guess I'm out... this time)


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 1, 2004)

Melian, exactly! 

About the details...hmm..yep I tried to use them as much as I could:

_Then an enchantment fell on him, and he stood still, and afar off beyond the voices of the lómelindi he heard the voice of Melian, and it filled all his heart with wonder and desire. He forgot then utterly all his people and all the purposes of his mind, and following the birds under the shadow of the trees he passed deep into Nan Elmoth and was lost. But he came at last to a glade open to the stars, and there Melian stood; and out of the darkness he looked at her, and the light of Aman was in her face.
She spoke no word; but being filled with love Elwë came to her and took her hand, and straightway a spell was laid on him, so that they stood thus while long years were measured by the wheeling stars above them; and the trees of Nan Elmoth grew tall and dark before they spoke any word._

Guess, I didn't make it hard enough...  ...just wait! 

Your turn, Mum.


----------



## Manveru (Feb 1, 2004)

I knew it, just knew it *snaps his forehead* I've got an extract of this in my sig, well, slowly arch.
Awaiting your "dare", oh, shadowy one...


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 1, 2004)

Manveru said:


> I knew it, just knew it *snaps his forehead* I've got an extract of this in my sig, well, slowly arch.
> Awaiting your "dare", oh, shadowy one...




You DO have a quote in your sig! 

Oh,...those archs in love...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 1, 2004)

Hmmm....

How about that:
_One certain evening,
When winter comes,
And next year after that,
The sun was sinking
Into a belt of clouds
And little moon rose in the sky of night.

That certain evening
The sun, that’s sinking
The clouds broke. 
And in the skies
Like finger bright
It shot a beam of light.

Its way it traced 
And quietly lay
Upon a special place.
But it was naughty 
And it appeared
It wouldn’t come some other day!

I saw it and in fear
My poor heart was caught!
“Quck! Quick! Oh, dear!”
And he gave me what he’d brought.

And so it happened 
That one evening
When winter comes 
And next year after that,
That beam of light
That broke the clouds
Our way led
To darkness from the falling night._


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 1, 2004)

WOW! _The Empire Strikes Back_.....Beautiful, Mum,...and yet veery hard!  

Can't think of it now.......after all, _the morning is wiser than the evening_......

Man?Where are you?


----------



## Manveru (Feb 2, 2004)

I'm here. All the time. If you hadn't noticed me, well, it's probably because I'm totally stunned... no word can be utterred...

I guess you "killed" the thread with that one, _wraith_... grrrr... kidding (really good one...and devilish-hard... oops, wraitish, of course


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 2, 2004)

_*...Always wraithfully yours!*_  

A hint - I used about 95% of Tolkien words of that episode!
Imagine! I found poetry in prose!


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 2, 2004)

Hahah... 
You two! 

And yet it remains....grrr...enormously HAAARD!  

Just a suggestion, though I know it's not right, is it when Niniel sees Brandir's face while he was trying to "take her away" of Turin?

It's something...better than nothing...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 3, 2004)

No, sweety! 

Wrong Age!

Another hint - everything but the last line is NOT any metaphor or allegory or anything of the kind. What you read is what really happened. 

Next, please!!!????


----------



## Manveru (Feb 3, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Next, please!!!????


Yeah, next, pls... next hint, cause... still feel dumb... or dumber
Okay...
A wild guess (completely wild...): does it have, by chance, anything to do with Boromir and his "quest" in Rivendell?

*hides... feeling Her wraitish gaze turned on him, shrieking with shrill laughter*


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 3, 2004)

Yes, Man!...either we are inhumanly stupid  ...or this riddle is _writhishly_ hard!  ...grr...come on, brain, think..think...THINK!  

Ok, let me add one more suggestion...is it to do with Galadriel?  
I have something in mind......but it is probably wrong again...or in the wrong age...  ...talking about living in the past...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 3, 2004)

Manveru said:


> *...feeling Her wraitish gaze turned on him, shrieking with shrill laughter*


And the wraithis laughter echoed in the Hall!  

*_Please, tell me, creature of light, what does the "quest" of Boromit in Rivendell have to do with the last sunbeam?_*

Wrong!!!!

And Fair Elven Lady - *wrong* again! Galadriel is off-stage here. 

A hint - think about the time of the year and the day the riddle speaks about! 

Muahahahaha 

_ Hey, folks... no hurt feelings I presume!_


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 3, 2004)

Nothing funny, you wriath! 

Ok, a desparete try....is Turin on the stage?


----------



## Hirila (Feb 3, 2004)

Come ON guys, that's soooo easy.

That's the dwarves and Bilbo sitting at the Lonely Mountain the moment that the last light on Durin's day (that wouldn't repeat in the near future with THAT moon etc.) fell on the keyhole to the door that led into the mountain, into the darkness on that evening of that day.
And Lhun is also referring to Bilbo hastening Turin to briong forth the key and open the door.

That was SO obvious.

I'll think of something at work today and post it then.


----------



## Manveru (Feb 3, 2004)

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... that _wraith_...

---------
BTW: I guess you mean Thorin...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 3, 2004)

**_...the Nazgul furiously turns to the one who dared spoil the fun and grabs her throat tight. 

"Clever!" - she hisses... but then releases the Lady Hirila from the mortal grip.
"All right then! I'll forgive you for the wrong name! ... 
Try your luck now!..._ ***


----------



## Hirila (Feb 3, 2004)

How lucky am I that I sit in front of my computer and don't stand in front of that freaking wraith. Good God! No! I'd rather fight seven balrogs at once. 

But Lhun, I have to congratulate you! It seemed really tough at first. But then, when I had read it the second time, suddenly everything was clear to me. A rare moment of absolute clear-mindedness. Yay! I wish I had more of those moments...

And now it is my turn in confusing you. Guess that:


They come in peace from different ends of the known world.
They meet and talk and never finish their work.
They discuss and learn about more friends of the same kind.


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 3, 2004)

*:d*

Come on, you guys! Don't you have some other work than making up those...wraithishly....devilishly...and many more...hard riddles! 
Gosh...

Ok, let me give a simple guess..(yes, it is simple! you confused me here!  no smart thing left..)
Has it something to do with the Ents?  
Please, say 'yes'...pleasssssse..pleasssse...
Hey, Hirila, say...you wanna take you to a cafe? Buy you a coffee...or something else...?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 4, 2004)

"They come in peace from different ends of the known world.
They meet and talk and never finish their work.
They discuss and learn about more friends of the same kind."

To me it sounds like the Council of Elrond.

But... why " ...never finish their work..."...???
Hmmm... this confuses me. 
If we however consider that this is NOT the last line of the riddle, we may still accept that this abstract is speaking about the fact that at first all that were present at the Council had a long quarrel and could not settle the problem - i.e. they could not finish their work = meaning to decide about the Ring.

Somehow.... sth. is not fitting...

Another guess - the Great Feast of Reuinion of the Elves in Beleriand. -when the two major clans of the Noldor (Fingolfin's and Feanor's)reconcile and then, at that union there came Elves from all parts of the known world and they all discuss the situation in Beleriand and their struggle against Melkor and they learn about friendly people all over Beleraind (Elves mostly - of those who were left behind and never crossed the sea to Aman).... But whatever it was, that peace and understanding was only during the feast. In fact, "they never finish their work" because the hostility between them could not be overcome and the later events prove it.

These are my two guesses. I now cannot remember other such a large meeting of people of all parts of the world.  

What saieth thou, Lady Hirila?


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 4, 2004)

Mum, I think you seized the riddle!
Allow me to quote you: 
_**...the Nazgul furiously turns to the one who* dared spoil the fun *and grabs her throat tight. _

Anyway, now seriously, isn't the riddle "in general"? I mean, it's not about one certain occasion, but about a permanent council? A council that is held in certain parts of the year, that is not "one of a kind", said in other words?
Or is just a stupid interpretation of me and my English...  
If it is so, sorry...

*sits ashamed*


----------



## Hirila (Feb 4, 2004)

I am sorry, girls, none of your guesses was right. 

Findi, you were not that far away from the correct answer in that last post of yours... 

There is a saying in Germany: "Warum in die Ferne schweifen, denn das Gute liegt so nah." I can't remember if it is from Goethe's Faust or not. Translated it means something like that:
"Why to seize what's far away, when the answer lies so near."

So much as a first hint from me. Go on girls.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 4, 2004)

Hehehe 

The closest to your hint Lady Hirila, is _*us - gathering at TTF*_ !


----------



## Hirila (Feb 4, 2004)

I can't believe it!
How the h*** do you do this, Lhun? How can it be you are so d*** good at guessing?
Gee, and I thought you wouldn't crack this for a while... Seems like I was wrong.
You see me completely stunned. Of course you're right!


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 4, 2004)

Mum, you left me completely speechless...  
If you can see me now...I look like a cow standing in the middle of a highway and wondering why there are so many cars....and what this car is?!
See, I am...speechless...

Just waiting for the next one..in silence and astonishment...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh, boy! I meant it as a joke...  

Now... back into character.......

"_....How can I guess??????? Guess??? Don't you, mortals, ever read my sig!?!!! I need not *words* to understand you! *I read your minds!!!* They are laid bare before me! You cannot hide your mind from a Nazgul!!_"

Back OUT of character...
My little one, c'mon! You are as bright as a star!  

***Lhun hugging both - Hirila and Findi*** 

What now... Me? AGAIN????   

********

All right ..... (no poetry this time. spare me!   )

_Amidst a vast sea;
We are sitting on an island, 
But no water holds this sea ;
and no boat took us here.

There sank the sun into the white sea 
and we are trapped into a hall 
but no house is there to shelter us._

Well?


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 7, 2004)

*Hugs Mum back* .._Love ya, Mum!_

Oh, and spare you?!  *Spare us!*  


amm..is this from Tolkien?

Okay, let's see...
The Guild of Tolkienology? With its sun, Grond, and our halls...?
(Noldorin Forge, Glitering Caves, Library of the Istar and the other one which I can't pronounce)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 7, 2004)

Hahahaha 

Nah! This is TOLKIEN-related event game!

it IS Tolkien! ALL THE WAY THROUGH!!!


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 8, 2004)

*Looks around*..._Now, where did Man go again...?_  


Okay, a lousy guess...is it related to Gollum (and the precioussssss..)?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 9, 2004)

Nope. I am sorry! Take another guess!  

And don't look for that _angel_, for he must be somewhere amidst the stars in the skies of Manwe and Varda with his Queen Melian (especially today!  )


----------



## Manveru (Feb 9, 2004)

Finduilas said:


> *Looks around*..._Now, where did Man go again...?_





Lhunithiliel said:


> And don't look for that angel, for he must be somewhere amidst the stars in the skies of Manwe and Varda with his Queen Melian (especially today!  )


wish i could... (the one day in the whole year and I wasn't there...) just solve my "comp-related" problems... try to stay around (though my grief is consuming my soul...)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 10, 2004)

Bah! Men's excuses!!!  

But as I see the Game has stuck again. So, obviously it needs a hint.
All right - FotR!


----------



## Hirila (Feb 10, 2004)

Hmm... Trapped... amidst a vast sea... hall... no house... island...

Is it the FotR trapped into the Chamber of Something (you know, where Balin's tomb was found), trapped into this hall, amidst a vast sea of attacking orcs/goblins outside. It is dark in Moria, and as it is a mine, not a house. The white sea? Maybe you're thinking of the sun having set into the mists of the Misty Mountains.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 10, 2004)

Ohohoooo ... What a deep analyses!

But... SORRY!


----------



## Hirila (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm wrong? Gee, I can't believe it! 


We... so it is a group of several people (animals, things?)
amidst a vast sea... surrounded by someone/something
sitting on an island/ trapped into a hall... cannot get out of the place/situation
sun sank into a white sea... whatever that is supposed to mean
no house/ no shelter... something else then?


Lhun... 
Are you talking about the elves of Lothlorien? Amidst the outside world, on their island of elven peace. The sun sank, meaning time goes by, but not for them, they are trapped into their "hall" upon the trees, where there are no houses.


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 10, 2004)

Is it the hobbits on the Barrowdowns when it became foggy and they were caught by the Barrowwights?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 11, 2004)

***_Ah! Another one that likes spoiling the fun!!!!    _***

All right, smart lady, YOUR turn!


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 12, 2004)

The doors are shut.
Evil stalks behind them.
Evil lurks below.
Evil hovers above.
Evil sleeps ahead.
Evil slinks around.
Yet they must find a way to go into the dark.


----------



## Manveru (Feb 12, 2004)

Fellowship standing in front of the entrance into Moria?


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 12, 2004)

Ah...that flashy angel...   

*Awaits for his riddle and ready to post a suggestion*...


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 12, 2004)

You're quite right Man. Go ahead.


Ooooh. It's my eleventy - first post.


----------



## Manveru (Feb 14, 2004)

*Okay, let's rock, shall we?*

_When three were as one
And One was not free.
When time showed the Noon,
Bliss and glory.
When words did flow,
Which one could clearly see.
When labour gave joy;
Who knew 'bout slavery?

Tough fight it was,
Though with love-lost.
Most dearly bought,
Life of a great warmth,
At a high cost._


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 17, 2004)

Beautiful verses, Angel! 

However.. the event... Hmmm... 
The first part tells me about the Noon of Aman, when the trees were still alive (not destroyed by Ungoliant and their light not enclosed into the three Silmarilli) and the labour of the Elves in Aman brought only joy... While the second part tells me about the next events to come - of How Feanor led the Noldor against the Valar and of how the Valar tried to stop them... but lost the "battle" because of love for the Elves and wishing not to hinder their aims and wishes....

Am I close?


----------



## Manveru (Feb 17, 2004)

How am I glad to see you here, _wraith_...
I began to think: "didn't I mess around too much?" (was scared a little that my verses were too confusing... seeming like written half-drunk).
Thx for appreciating their beauty...
Now, let's get back to your interpretation (whoa, feels nice to be interpreted...), I guess, in the end, I must take a dare and come between you and your "potential" pray, Nazgul-Lady. You're close, but you went too far in history... our beloved (yeah, right) Feanor was just a "spark" then... or even... grrr, too many hints given already

Have fun guessing again... you all


----------



## Hirila (Feb 17, 2004)

Is it something about the three peoples of ME?

(I would have guessed something with the three houses of the elves, i.e. their three leaders, Elwe, Olwe and Ingwe, who once lived as one people at Cuivienen, but that's even farther back in time than Lhun's guess.)

I'd also put the beginnings of Hobbit-history on the table. Weren't there three different families of Hobbits who lived at Anduin?


----------



## Manveru (Feb 17, 2004)

Hmm... I guess my ability to express my thoughts in English is fading...
Lhun interpreted very well the first part of my riddle (which is more like a background of some kind to the "real" event hidden in the following stanza...). And when I said that _wraith_ went too far in history, I meant that it's too far *ahead* (sorry for any inconvinients resulting from my, hmm... so called "knowledge" of English language).

So... did I cleared it all a little or do we still "seeking for each other in the thick mist" (not necessary on the Barrow Downs)?

Anyway... we'll see, with another "dare"? Who wanna try and guess?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 17, 2004)

Oh, Angel, I did understand you right!  Don't you worry about your English!
( _But... in case you need some lessons, call me! I don't charge too much!_    )

Now.... If my favourite ... *the one and only Mr.F. !!!* was still a 'spark" in the time of the event, then going back and even further back, then ....
Say... Is that the Ainur singing into being Arda and then...
But... what is this loss ? Whose?  Melkor's???

C'mon! Give Miss H. a present! It's her day today!!!!


----------



## Manveru (Feb 17, 2004)

Hey, what are those _too big, too bold_ letters doing there? Advertising?  

Getting back to business... nope too far away back

Hint: from a _spark_ there goes a _fire_, but when it is born to "life" it usually "ruins" sth... (geesh, looks confusing, even for me, who knows the answer, but I don't know how to explain this not giving you too many hints...)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 17, 2004)

Have you seen "Dumb and Dumber" - movie?
Welll...... now ... I am the third one that comes in the succession!


----------



## Manveru (Feb 17, 2004)

C'mon, it's so easy... sleep with it, _wraith_ (if wraiths do sleep at all) and when you'll finally "crack" it, you'll see... well... have a nice dreams tonight

Anyone?


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 17, 2004)

Great riddle, Man! And very confusing.... Teasing the ladies...a?

So let me give a try too...._and feel dump or dumper as well..._

_When words did flow,
Which one could clearly see.
When labour gave joy;
Who knew 'bout slavery?
_

Does this tell us of the Music of the Ainur?
And then the though fight is actually viewed in two aspects:
-the word fight between Melkor and the Ainur+Eru and the "rebellion" of Melkor
-the inside fight of melkor whether to deny the work of his creator or remain under his patronage...

Near?


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 18, 2004)

I think I got it.

The Three is the 3 Elf kindreds at the height of the Eldar Days.
The last 5 lines refer to the birth of Feanor, which caused his mother Miriel to tire of life.
The lines about words refer to the invention of writing.

Great poetry!


----------



## Manveru (Feb 18, 2004)

BINGO!
And I thought no one will come up with that (especially with those lines about inventing the writing by Rumil...).
You got it, Starbrow. Got it well.
You're up!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Feb 18, 2004)

***_The wraith hissed with fury out from the dark. Once again those creatures of light managed to be faster than her...But it was allright! Let them gather around! The more of them - the better for her ! Her time shall come!... Very soon! ... And no mercy she will show then!_ *** 



(...and Angel, I am glad to see you being an _*angel*_ again!  )


----------



## Manveru (Feb 19, 2004)

Maybe I'm too rush... too fast... too furious...err... I've galloped myself too far
What I meant... well, go on with this thread... before I'll cool down...

-----------


Lhunithiliel said:


> (...and Angel, I am glad to see you being an angel again!  )


Always been, _wraith_...


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 19, 2004)

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. It takes me a while to come up with new riddles.

While sleeping by the fire at night,
One came bringing wiser sight,
Harping and singing of Eldar days.
Old gave loyalty to Wisdom's ways.


----------



## Manveru (Feb 20, 2004)

Finrod playing by the fire... surrounded by the sleeping Men of Beor's host?
He played the harp, singing of Eldar and then after a long talk, Beor _the Old_ swore loyalty to Finarfin's household...

Say "yes, that's it", Starbrow... pls... it's my birthday today (just kidding...)


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 21, 2004)

Yes, that's it. Very good Manveru.

Oh and Happy Birthday!


----------



## Manveru (Feb 23, 2004)

Sorry for a little delay (geesh, I won't rush anyone else again).
Had to chase my... oh, whatever...
Here's sth fresh from my "wordsmith's dungeon":

_Face pale as grey steel
With arm hanging
Without feel
Above freed fëa gently strode
Assailing blaze -
Great heat's abode

Aimed swing, meant for kill
Went off target - straining
Against will
Daring feat, maybe too bold
Left all amazed
Dooming an archfiend of old..._

Enjoy
-----------
EDIT: edited the last line... not much changing the whole thing though... good luck


----------



## Finduilas (Feb 26, 2004)

Hey, Man...I'm gonna collect your riddles and publish them...I'll make a fortune! 

As for the current one...it looks like Isildur cutting off Sauron's finger..


----------



## Manveru (Feb 26, 2004)

*little...little...little one...*



Finduilas said:


> Hey, Man...I'm gonna collect your riddles and publish them...I'll make a fortune!


hmm... "breaking into print" at such a young age...? could use a fortune... who couldn't? 


Finduilas said:


> As for the current one...it looks like Isildur cutting off Sauron's finger..


 Nope... cold, very cold... brrr... (_...it freezes...nasty elves must've twisted it..._)


----------



## Hirila (Mar 1, 2004)

The only "arm hanging without feel" I can think of is Merry's arm, after he cut the wraith... But I'm sure it is not him who we are looking for.
But then... his stroke made the bad guy ready for Eowyn's sword, "dooming an archifiend of old". And again... Merry didn't aim at killing.
No, it is not him...


----------



## Manveru (Mar 1, 2004)

hmm... miss H., strange this world is... really strange...
after reading your "interpretation" and then rereading my riddle I almost believed it's the right one (this ambiguity of my tongue...)
sorry... wrong age...

hint:

_Among wild panic
Amid broad maze
Two sank like "Titanic"
Leaving a thin haze..._

grrr... I better stop writing...


----------



## Manveru (Mar 5, 2004)

Another hint you want? Hmm... that would be too easy (actually, my hints are so vague because... argh...)

Hint #2: Gondolin...

Let's get this thing going...


----------



## Hirila (Mar 5, 2004)

Thanks Man! You're truly an angel!  

Back to the riddle.. During the Fall of Gondolin.. didn't that elf.. Maeglin? the... nephew(?) of Turgon, son of the Dark Elf in Nan Elmoth, who was in love with Idril, but couldn't get her... kill the Lord of the Balrogs? Gothmog? No, that was the bad goblin in Moria who killed Thorin's grandpa.. wasn't he?

Holy Sh**, I am mizing things up again... I wonder how I can remember all those complicated cooking recipes...
I can always give many details to absoluetly unrelated details, but never to the event in question.. I guess something's wrong with my brains... Poor me!


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 5, 2004)

Manveru said:


> _Face pale as grey steel
> With arm hanging
> Without feel
> Above freed fëa gently strode
> ...



Ummm... The fight and death of Ecthelion of the Fountain and Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs during the Fall of Gondolin?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 6, 2004)

....Or... Could it be...


> Many are the songs that have been sung of *the duel of Glorfindel with the Balrog* upon a pinnacle of rock in that high place; and both fell to ruin in the abyss...



Ah! Angel!!!


----------



## Manveru (Mar 6, 2004)

_clear angelic laugh sounds in the deep of the Hall..."that wraith will be mad again", thinks he, but keeps on laughing..._

Well... well... well... I see the game is dominated by ladies (no man dares even try...)

Well, I got it from here:


> The men of Melkor had now assembled their forces, and seven fire-dragons with Orcs and Balrogs came upon them from North, East and West seeking the Square of the King. Tuor and Egalmoth went from place to place of the defence, but Ecthelion lay by the Fountain because of his wound. There, Tuor was sundered from Egalmoth, and Gothmog came against him. Weary from the heat and the battle, he was beaten down by that demon. Ecthelion whose face was pale as grey steel and whose one hand hung at his side with no use, strode above him as he fell and drove at Gothmog. Unfortunately, Ecthelion only wounded him. As Gothmog raised his whip, Ecthelion used his helm, which had a spike upon it, and drove that spike into the breast of the beast. As he did this, he twinkled his feet around the legs of Gothmog and they both fell into the Kings Fountain, which was very deep. There found Gothmog his bane, but also Ecthelion, steel-laden as he was, sank into the depths and died.


(don't know if it is the original text of the Fall of Gondolin, but... oh, well... needed only to bind it into rhymes...)

Sorry, Lhun... Hirila, you were close (not the right person, but you mentioned Gothmog...)
I guess now you (all) know who rumbled me... yeah, your turn, Minuel 

Let the game continue!


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 6, 2004)

I had already decided it was Glorfindel, your hint of Gondolin sealed it... Both he and Ecthelion were injured and both fell; but it was your hint of the _maze_ and _sank_ that made me think again 

This is all I could come up with this morning...

_Midsummer he traveled east, leaving kin at home;
Returning - finding silence and a cold hearth of stone._


----------



## Hirila (Mar 12, 2004)

Okay, here is another one of my absoluetely wild guesses, where I mix up people, times, names and places.
As I surely am not right witht his, maybe it helps others solve this riddle.

A man traveled eastwards and left his family at home. When he came back, they were gone. To say it plainly.

This leaves me thinking of Hurin, who went for the fight against Morgoth and didn't find his family where he had left them when he was finally released.

Again, I give no guarantee I got the names right here. Will someone please call me Queen of Why-can't-she-never-remember-the-right-details...


----------



## Manveru (Mar 12, 2004)

Hey, your interpretation sounds logical, Queen of Why-can't-she-never-remember-the-right-details...

Minuel? What say you?


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 12, 2004)

Hirila said:


> Okay, here is another one of my absoluetely wild guesses, where I mix up people, times, names and places.
> As I surely am not right witht his, maybe it helps others solve this riddle.
> 
> A man traveled eastwards and left his family at home. When he came back, they were gone. To say it plainly.
> ...



Drat... I will have to read of Hurin tonight, but no, that is not the event I had in mind. 

*Hint:* 

_She desired to see her kin again, the time she was away was long;
He wished to live the tales she told, but stealing away was wrong._

I haven't used a rhyming dictionary in years, what fun


----------



## Manveru (Mar 12, 2004)

Minuel Lasgalas said:


> Drat... I will have to read of Hurin tonight, but no, that is not the event I had in mind.
> 
> *Hint:*
> 
> ...


yeah, fun it is...

btw, you've got a rhyming dictionary? lucky you... I have to "struggle" on my own 

btw2(): have no idea about that one...


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 12, 2004)

Manveru said:


> btw, you've got a rhyming dictionary? lucky you... I have to "struggle" on my own



My grandmother had one and it was nice, but I don't have it - I cheat: go here => http://www.rhymer.com/


----------



## Hirila (Mar 15, 2004)

> Midsummer he traveled east, leaving kin at home;
> Returning - finding silence and a cold hearth of stone.
> 
> She desired to see her kin again, the time she was away was long;
> He wished to live the tales she told, but stealing away was wrong.



Hmm... so suddenly there is a "she" involved in it all...
So is it a mother? A wife? Who came from somewhere else than her husband.

Travelling east.. I am thinking in longitudes now. From where could someone travel to what places that laid east of his home?
Who lived west of the Sirion? Who between Sirion and Gelion? And who between Gelion and Ered Luin? Or east of the Ered Luin?


----------



## Manveru (Mar 15, 2004)

> Midsummer he traveled east, leaving kin at home;


Turin leaving home... sent to abode with Thingol in Doriath...?


> Returning - finding silence and a cold hearth of stone.


When he (Turin) returned after a few years to Dor-lomin, he found out that his mother and sister weren't there, house was abandoned (it was then when he slew Brodda, right?)


> She desired to see her kin again, the time she was away was long;


Morwen with her daughter, Nienor, traveling to Doriath to see Turin; not seen for a long time?


> He wished to live the tales she told, but stealing away was wrong.


Again, Turin was fascinated 'bout the tales his mother was telling him (???)... the second part of that line refers to Turin among outlaws... am I right?

okay... so much for tonight (hope it sounds...oh, whatever)

Minuel?


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 15, 2004)

Manveru/Hirila said:


> Minuel?



OKAY... no. If these two hints don't work, I will tell you what it was and then we can go from there. I never said I was good at this kind of thing  


Midsummer he traveled east, leaving kin at home;
Returning - finding silence and a cold hearth of stone.
She desired to see her kin again, the time she was away was long;
He wished to live the tales she told, but stealing away was wrong. 


*Hint 2:* The 'he' in the second stanza is not the 'he' from the first.


*Hint 3:* _This event is crucial... HAD to occur. If it had not... Gondolin would not have fallen in the matter that it did._


----------



## Manveru (Mar 16, 2004)

Aghhhhhhh!!! Now it seems so obvious and so on...
But I'm not sure... still... so...
"he" from the first stanza is Eol, Dark Elf, leaving his wife and son while he travelled to visit the Dwarves...
...and when he returned home, they were gone
"she" = Aredhel, wanted to go back to Gondolin, to her kin, to Turgon, her brother... took her son, Maeglin (who is the "he" from the second stanza) with her...
...right?


----------



## Hirila (Mar 16, 2004)

My winged friend, I guess you got it!
Congratulations!


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 16, 2004)

Hirila said:


> My winged friend, I guess you got it!
> Congratulations!



She told him stories of her life as he was growing up and he wanted to go... 

Tadaaaaaaaaa...  You're up Manveru


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 16, 2004)

**In flies a dark shadow**

_I knew it right from the start, you, mortals!!! _

***and flies away the shadow with horrifying shrieking laughter***

-----------------


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 16, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> _I knew it right from the start, you, mortals!!! _



Well that's reassuring... I was beginning to wonder about my ability to be understood


----------



## Manveru (Mar 16, 2004)

Don't listen to that _wraith_, Minuel. Always makes a lot of noise... that's all. (oops, I guess I should keep my angelic tongue behind bars from time to time  )

Too easy riddles for our _immortal ethereal shrieking shadow_, eh? (and believe it or not, I was going to resign from asking another riddle... now, it's different...) Okay... let me just think awhile...


----------



## Manveru (Mar 18, 2004)

_Dark clouds of wrath
Dim the noontide of life
Greed made ally a lowlife
Delvers on the warpath

He's gone, naught She hath
Drowned in silence, mourning wife
On Her lap, the cause of strife
Forecast of a lonely path_

good luck (though don't think you're gonna need it)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Mar 18, 2004)

Say, creature of light, is this the tale of Morwen and Turin so beautifully interpreted in your rhymes?


----------



## Manveru (Mar 18, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Say, creature of light, is this the tale of Morwen and Turin so beautifully interpreted in your rhymes?


*shaking head* nope


----------



## Hirila (Mar 18, 2004)

I got it ! I got!

It is Niniel, weeping for the (seemingly) slain Mormegil, whose sword or helmet or whatever was brought to her after he had killed the dragon and lay there as if dead. And then she jumped into the river, after the not-so-dead dragon told her who she really was.


----------



## Manveru (Mar 18, 2004)

Gosh, such an enthusiasm... 
What am I gonna do with you, ladies...? You know I have too kind a heart...
But... rules are rules 
Sorry, miss H.


----------



## Hirila (Mar 18, 2004)

No??????  

I can't believe it! Impossible! I analyzed your lines into the very depths of all imaginable literary images... Who or what else would fit that description?

Who else drowned? Elwing drowned and took the Silmaril with her (didn't she?) because Earendil had sailed into the West. 
"Forecast of a lonely path", well, they ended up sailing the sky.. if that's not lonely!
And the Silmarils are definitely "cause of strife".


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 18, 2004)

Hirila said:


> Who else drowned? Elwing drowned and took the Silmaril with her (didn't she?) because Earendil had sailed into the West.
> "Forecast of a lonely path", well, they ended up sailing the sky.. if that's not lonely!
> And the Silmarils are definitely "cause of strife".



Elwing and the sack of the Havens at Sirion sounds like a winner to me 

_Greed made ally a lowlife_ - that's good Manveru.


----------



## Manveru (Mar 19, 2004)

Minuel Lasgalas said:


> _Greed made ally a lowlife_ - that's good Manveru.


*bows*

Nope, it's not Elwing...


Lhunithiliel said:


> ...don't listen to angels!
> Whenever they descend to earth they get dizzy and can't have a clear view on things!


see? don't take my words directly... I used _drowned_ as a comparison only... didn't mean that _She_ really drowned (guess that was confusing a little, well, that's what riddles are for, right? to confuse...)
Looking at your interpretations I see again that I write too universal lines (though I wanna "hide" between them so many details at the same time...).

Hint: who are _delvers_?

c'mon... it's easy!


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 19, 2004)

Manveru said:


> Hint: who are _delvers_?
> 
> c'mon... it's easy!



Hmmm... is it Melian after the Dwarves killed Elu Thingol and stole the Nauglamír?


----------



## Manveru (Mar 19, 2004)

yeah... Melian grieving (?) after her loss... preparing to leave Middle-earth (_forecast of a lonely path_)
goodie 
I proudly pass onto you, Minuel, the privilage of asking another riddle... make it flawless.
Let the game continue!

see... i told you it was easy

------------
BTW: Hirila, you were right about that "_cause of strife_"; it was a Silmaril (one and the same, just a little bit earlier than you suggested)


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Mar 20, 2004)

> I proudly pass onto you, Minuel, the privilage of asking another riddle... make it flawless.
> Let the game continue!



Aw, rats! I didn't think that was it!  

It might take a day or two to come up with another; I have to mow two acres this weekend - dogs are disappearing in the weeds - especially it if has to be a _flawless one_.........


----------



## Manveru (Mar 20, 2004)

Minuel Lasgalas said:


> Aw, rats! I didn't think that was it!
> 
> It might take a day or two to come up with another; I have to mow two acres this weekend - dogs are disappearing in the weeds - especially it if has to be a _flawless one_.........




Take your time...


----------



## Minuel Lasgalas (Apr 3, 2004)

Manveru said:


> Take your time...



I have not forgotten this... there have been two deaths recently among friends that has shaken me a bit... I will get to it, the mind is not cooperating right now.

Minuel


----------



## Manveru (Apr 3, 2004)

my sympathies...

as i said earlier...don't think i need to repeat myself...


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 18, 2004)

Hey people - what's the currant riddle?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Apr 19, 2004)

Sabeen said:


> Hey people - what's the currant riddle?


Nothing, actually...

Would you like to give it a try???


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 19, 2004)

Sure!!

It rains
it pours
We hear thunder
but not from the storm
our ranks are strong 
but we are still outnumbered

Have at it!


----------



## Helcaraxë (Apr 20, 2004)

Battle of Helm's Deep, perhaps? I don't recall whether it rained in the book or whether that was just a construct of the movie. Actually, in the book, I think it's called the Battle of the Hornburg.


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 22, 2004)

Damn. I was hoping that would take you longer. Oh well. You're right. Go ahead and take your turn now...


----------



## Helcaraxë (Apr 23, 2004)

I had come up with one, but it was too easy, so I made one up that's a little harder:

With a forest of gold in a land of stone,
War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.
A tower gleamed in a traitor's land 
As Darkness put forth its hand;
The star shone no more
When the shadow came from the eastern shore.


----------



## Manveru (Apr 28, 2004)

okay, i'll take a dare (just to move this a little bit forward ):

does it have anything to do with Numenorians and Sauron? (and is from the HoMe? cos if so, i won't try again... don't want to make a fool of myself--at least, not too often)


----------



## Helcaraxë (Apr 28, 2004)

You're getting closer...

It's not from HoME.

Hint: the first line is the key.


----------



## Manveru (May 6, 2004)

okay, i'll try again (since no one else cares to do so... shyness? )


Helcaraxë said:


> With a forest of gold in a land of stone,
> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.
> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land
> As Darkness put forth its hand;
> ...


can it be Last Alliance of Elves and Men... battle at the slopes of Mount Doom?
this star that "shone no more"... when i read this line... i have in mind death of Gil-Galad (sth connected with _star_ in this name, right?)
Elendil and his sons... "war brought they to doom's Dark Throne"...

as far as this very important line (V.I.L.?! ) is concerned... hmm... were they wearing golden armors then... could be a forest when one stood beside another, right?

okay... won't fool around anymore... any closer, Helcaraxë?

------------
PS. does anyone (still) remember of this thread, anyway?


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 10, 2004)

Nope, sorry.  

The line "war brought they to doom's dark throne" may be confusing. It's a general term, and may not refer to the actual throne itself. It's more symbolic. 

I don't recall ever reading that the warriors in the BotLA wore golden armor. But look at the "land of stone." What is the land of stone? It's in the name.

Actually, you might want to turn your attention to the "tower in the traitor's land." The traitor's land isn't hard to figure out, but it's the tower that might be a stickler. Once you get the tower and the flowers it'll br obvious.


----------



## Starbrow (May 10, 2004)

Well traitor makes me think of Saruman. So then the tower would be Orthanc. Am I close at all?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 11, 2004)

And to me..... I don't know why, but it takes my thoughts to Numenor... 
Only I can't decide to which event to relate it to...   

But then... that "land of stone"... Wasn't Minas Tirith the city of stone?
Could it be sth. related to MT?


----------



## Manveru (May 11, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> But then... that "land of stone"... Wasn't Minas Tirith the city of stone?
> Could it be sth. related to MT?


*gond* - stone
*dor* - land

this "land of stone" is for sure Gondor... but i'm a little confused with the rest

the only "golden" forest near that is... Lothlorien? but what it all have in common with Saruman (IMO a good guess, Starbrow) and that coming of "shadow"... "darkness" putting forth its hand??

a wild guess: is it a Nazgul coming to Orthanc, after Pip looked into the Palantir? (but why this line with that "golden forest" is so important then  )


----------



## Finduilas (May 11, 2004)

Let me try too...

_With a forest of gold in a land of stone,_ <- As, Man, said the land of stone is Gondor. Concerning the forest of gold, could it be connected not with the literal meaning of "forest" but a metaphor? For example, heart is generally compared with "gold", we say "A golden heart". Could it reffer to Gandalf and Pipin's hearts, while their visit at Gondor?

_War brought they to doom's Dark Throne._ <- Doom is Denethor. He's doomed and it is not until Gandalf comes that he's released. The symbol of these words is in the words wich they are welcomed with. Gandalf is believed to bring only bad news to the realm of Gondor, so could this refer to that exactly atitude?

_A tower gleamed in a traitor's land _ <- This concerns Grima. (not sure of the spelling now...) He's so to say enchenting Denethor and soon will have the tower, objectively said. It's like the tower is almost in his hands and that's why it's gleaming...not shining. And it's his land because, well, it is he who rules in fact.

_As Darkness put forth its hand;_ <- It again concerns Grimma....

As for the other two lines....can't think of something exact now...
I may be also influanced by the movies...(gosh, have to reread the books!!!!!)
So...what say thee?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 11, 2004)

Hmmm... so:

_With a forest of gold in a land of stone,_
Lothlorien-Gondor

_War brought they to doom's Dark Throne._
the Elves and Men

_A tower gleamed in a traitor's land _
Orthanc

_As Darkness put forth its hand;_
My Master , of course!  

_The star shone no more_
 

_When the shadow came from the eastern shore._
the Easterlings?

And... then... 
It seems as THE war for overthrowing "us"  ???


----------



## Starbrow (May 11, 2004)

_When the shadow came from the eastern shore_ 
That could be either the Nazgul crossing the Anduin or
The dark gloom that spread from Mordor before the battle.

If that's so then, _The star shown no more_ could refer to the fact that the sun couldn't be seen through the gloom.

Since I keep coming back to Minas Tirith, maybe _A tower gleamed in a traitor's land_ means the White Tower of Ecthelion and Denethor is the traitor.

_With a forest of gold in a land of stone_ Could that be the Theoden and the Rohirrim coming to aid Minas Tirith?

I seemed to have worked on it in a backwards order; I still don't think it's quite right.


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 12, 2004)

Starbrow said:


> Well traitor makes me think of Saruman. So then the tower would be Orthanc. Am I close at all?



Nope, sorry. Think earlier.


> And to me..... I don't know why, but it takes my thoughts to Numenor...
> Only I can't decide to which event to relate it to...
> 
> But then... that "land of stone"... Wasn't Minas Tirith the city of stone?
> Could it be sth. related to MT?



You're on the right track with Numenor!



> gond - stone
> dor - land
> 
> this "land of stone" is for sure Gondor... but i'm a little confused with the rest
> ...



Yes, the land of stone is Gondor, but during this time, Gondor occupied much more land, so it may not be in WotR-day Gondor. 



> Let me try too...
> 
> With a forest of gold in a land of stone, <- As, Man, said the land of stone is Gondor. Concerning the forest of gold, could it be connected not with the literal meaning of "forest" but a metaphor? For example, heart is generally compared with "gold", we say "A golden heart". Could it reffer to Gandalf and Pipin's hearts, while their visit at Gondor?



The land of stone is indeed a part of Gondor. The forest is a metaphor, but a descriptive metaphor. 



> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne. <- Doom is Denethor. He's doomed and it is not until Gandalf comes that he's released. The symbol of these words is in the words wich they are welcomed with. Gandalf is believed to bring only bad news to the realm of Gondor, so could this refer to that exactly atitude?



Ack, such clever thinking! But, unfortunately, on the wrong track. During much of the time before WotR, Sauron's might spread over all Middle-Earth. Perhaps, then, "doom's dark throne" encompasses more area than you think?



> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land <- This concerns Grima. (not sure of the spelling now...) He's so to say enchenting Denethor and soon will have the tower, objectively said. It's like the tower is almost in his hands and that's why it's gleaming...not shining. And it's his land because, well, it is he who rules in fact.



Nope, sorry.  The tower gleams. That's a crucial point. What tower gleams?



> As Darkness put forth its hand; <- It again concerns Grimma....



...or perhaps a power on a larger scale?


> As for the other two lines....can't think of something exact now...
> I may be also influanced by the movies...(gosh, have to reread the books!!!!!)
> So...what say thee?



You're thinking too late. This event occured much earlier. 



> Hmmm... so:
> 
> With a forest of gold in a land of stone,
> Lothlorien-Gondor



The forest of Gold isn't Lothlorien, though that is _a_ forest of gold. 



> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.
> the Elves and Men



One of these, certiainly, or perhaps both? I don't want to give away too much.



> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land
> Orthanc



Not quite...


> As Darkness put forth its hand;
> My Master , of course!



Probably, if I know who you mean.  



> The star shone no more
> 
> When the shadow came from the eastern shore.
> the Easterlings?



"East" only by perspective. To many, it's west. 



> And... then...
> It seems as THE war for overthrowing "us" ???



A precursor to it, perhaps. 



> When the shadow came from the eastern shore
> That could be either the Nazgul crossing the Anduin or
> The dark gloom that spread from Mordor before the battle.



A symbolic dark gloom, certainly, but to be precise there was no battle. There's a hint.



> If that's so then, The star shown no more could refer to the fact that the sun couldn't be seen through the gloom.



Perhaps. The thing that the "star" refers to has the "star" element in its name. 



> Since I keep coming back to Minas Tirith, maybe A tower gleamed in a traitor's land means the White Tower of Ecthelion and Denethor is the traitor.



Not quite. 


> With a forest of gold in a land of stone Could that be the Theoden and the Rohirrim coming to aid Minas Tirith?



The forest metaphor is very close to a metaphor Tolkien himself uses to describe this event. 



> I seemed to have worked on it in a backwards order; I still don't think it's quite right



Keep trying...


----------



## Starbrow (May 12, 2004)

Is the tower that gleams Minas Morgul/Minas Ithil?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 13, 2004)

Ahaaa!

So, I was right about *Numenor!!!*  

All right then...Let's see...

_With a forest of gold in a land of stone,_

The forest is clear now:


> _*From UT, Description of Numenor*_:
> An about that place, up the seaward slopes and far into the land, grew the evergreen and fragrant trees that they brought out of the West,.....
> Many of them were planted and grew, though far less abundantly, in other region of Númenor; but only here grew the mighty golden tree malinornë reaching after five centuries a height scarce less than it achieved in Eressëa itself.


This is the "forest of gold" at the Bay of Eldanna.

As for the "land of stone" ... I have to admit I am confused! Do you mean the very first settlings of the Numenoreans in ME? To me it seems so...  

_War brought they to doom's Dark Throne._
The Numenoreans setting foot on the shores of ME? To be more precise - the challenge of Ar-Pharazôn agaist Sauron (_My Master 'cause am I not a Nazgul! _  )

_A tower gleamed in a traitor's land_
How about this:


> _*Silmarillion,Akallabet*_:
> In this Age, as is elsewhere told, Sauron arose again in Middle-earth, and grew, and turned back to the evil in which he was nurtured by Morgoth, becoming mighty in his service. Already in the days of Tar-Minastir, the eleventh King of Númenor, he had fortified the land of Mordor and had built there the Tower of Barad-dûr, and thereafter he strove ever for the dominion of Middle-earth, to become a king over all kings and as a god unto Men.



_As Darkness put forth its hand;_
See above quote 

_The star shone no more_
Maybe a way to express the corruption of the Numenoreans.

_When the shadow came from the eastern shore._
Again....

It all leads me to believe that what is meant by the riddle is:

*Ar-Pharazôn invading the lands of ME and challenging Sauron*

Is it?


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 20, 2004)

> Is the tower that gleams Minas Morgul/Minas Ithil?



Nope, sorry.



> _With a forest of gold in a land of stone,_
> 
> The forest is clear now:
> 
> This is the "forest of gold" at the Bay of Eldanna.



No, not that forest. A metaphoric forest.


> As for the "land of stone" ... I have to admit I am confused! Do you mean the very first settlings of the Numenoreans in ME? To me it seems so...



Keep thinking...



> _War brought they to doom's Dark Throne._
> The Numenoreans setting foot on the shores of ME? To be more precise - the challenge of Ar-Pharazôn agaist Sauron (_My Master 'cause am I not a Nazgul! _  )



YES!!!



> _A tower gleamed in a traitor's land_
> How about this:



Nope, sorry. This is a nasty riddle.



> _As Darkness put forth its hand;_
> See above quote



Yes, that was essentially it, but this "stretching forth" occured slightly later; the two lines imply that the tower gleamed while the stretching occured.  



> _The star shone no more_
> Maybe a way to express the corruption of the Numenoreans.



Yes, but more specifically, a result of this. The star, of course, refers to Numenor. What happened to Numenor?



> _When the shadow came from the eastern shore._
> Again....



That depends on what "again" means.  What shadow came from the eastern shore and made the star shine no more? Knowing that the star refers to Numenor, what is the eastern shore?



> It all leads me to believe that what is meant by the riddle is:
> 
> *Ar-Pharazôn invading the lands of ME and challenging Sauron*
> 
> Is it?



Yes! But what event happened specifically when Ar-Pharazon challenged Sauron? What did Ar-Pharazon do, and how does it relate to the shadow coming from the eastern shore?

Even if you get it, I'm not letting you make up a new riddle until you've figured out all my riddle's components!!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 21, 2004)

Helcaraxë !!!!   

OK... let's see ... 



Helcaraxë said:


> Lhunithiliel said:
> 
> 
> > It all leads me to believe that what is meant by the riddle is:
> ...



Do you now want me to re-tell the WHOLE story of the downfall of Numenor?  
About how Sauron came and quickly started dominate over the minds of the Numenoreans; about the temple of Melkor on the top of Meneltarma; about the poisoning of the Numenorean society by Sauron's lies ... about Ar-Pharazon's madness to go challenge Valinor; about the catastrophy that followed...

Which one of these do you mean?


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 23, 2004)

Nooo! No, no, no, no, thank you for asking  

You were very close with the first one, but what happened first that caused it?!


----------



## Manveru (May 23, 2004)

grrr... i knew Numenorians were always causing troubles, but this... this is too much... get this riddle to a fine (and happy) end, cause i'm loosing my interest in this thread... getting really "itchy"

hey, icy-guy, maybe it's time for a "clear" hint, eh? just a thought (it's not funny anymore)


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 23, 2004)

Manveru said:


> grrr... i knew Numenorians were always causing troubles, but this... this is too much... get this riddle to a fine (and happy) end, cause i'm loosing my interest in this thread... getting really "itchy"
> 
> hey, icy-guy, maybe it's time for a "clear" hint, eh? just a thought (it's not funny anymore)



Did I miss something here or did you just fall completely off your rocker?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (May 23, 2004)

Helcaraxë said:


> Nooo! No, no, no, no, thank you for asking
> 
> You were very close with the first one, but what happened first that caused it?!


Hehehe 
Tough!

How about this:


> Great was the anger of Ar-Pharazôn at these tidings, and as he pondered long in secret, his heart was filled with the desire of power unbounded and the sole dominion of his will. And he determined without counsel of the Valar, or the aid of any wisdom but his own, that the title of King of Men he would himself claim, and would compel Sauron to become his vassal and his servant; for in his pride he deemed that no king should ever arise so mighty as to vie with the Heir of Eärendil. Therefore he began in that time to smithy great hoard of weapons, and many ships of war he built and stored them with his arms; and when all was made ready he himself set sail with his host into the East.
> For seven days he journeyed with banner and trumpet, and he came to a hill, and he went up, and he set there his pavilion and his throne; and he sat him down in the midst of the land, and the tents of his host were ranged all about him, blue, golden, and white, as a field of tall flowers. Then he sent forth heralds, and he commanded Sauron to come before him and swear to him fealty.
> And Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-dûr he came, and made no offer of battle. For he perceived that the power and majesty of the Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them; and he saw not his time yet to work his will with the Dúnedain.


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 24, 2004)

Yes!! That's the right passage! But now you have to figure out what's what in the poem., and you haven't yet pinpointed exactly what the riddle is about. I'm looking for one word. And what did Ar-Pharazon do with Sauron when Sauron came? I'll give you a hint: the tower exists because of this event. What did he do with Sauron?!!?!


----------



## Starbrow (May 24, 2004)

Ar-Pharazon made Sauron one of his councilors. But I have no idea what tower you are talking about.


----------



## Finduilas (May 25, 2004)

Gosh...is this riddle still going on?!   Haha..good work, Helcaraxë!  

Now let's see...


> With a forest of gold in a land of stone,


Is it something to do with this: 
_None too soon was this done; for after the assault the King yielded to Sauron and felled the White Tree, and turned then wholly away from the allegiance of his fathers. *But Sauron caused to be built upon the hill in the midst of the city of the Númenóreans, Armenelos the Golden, a mighty temple; and it was in the form of a circle at the base, and there the walls were fifty feet in thickness, and the width of the base was five hundred feet across the centre, and the walls rose from the ground five hundred feet, and they were crowned with a mighty dome. And that dome was roofed all with silver, and rose glittering in the sun, so that the light of it could be seen afar off; but soon the light was darkened, and the silver became black. For there was an altar of fire in the midst to the temple, and in the topmost of the dome there was a louver, whence there issued a great smoke. *And the first fire upon the altar Sauron kindled with the hewn wood of Nimloth, and it crackled and was consumed; but men marvelled at the reek that went up form it, so that the land lay under a cloud for seven days, until slowly it passed into the west._ (quote 1)

...or do you mean this:
_to this Sauron assented as one *constrained*, yet in his secret thought he received it gladly, for it chimed indeed with his desire. _ 



> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.


_Origanally posted by Mum:_ 


> The Numenoreans setting foot on the shores of ME? To be more precise - the challenge of Ar-Pharazôn agaist Sauron





> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land


See quote 1....



> As Darkness put forth its hand;


Sauron starting taking over the Numenoreans by Ar-Pharazon and thus darkening their land.



> The star shone no more


Concerning Nimloth:
_But when Amandil heard rumour of the evil purpose of Sauron he was grieved to the heart, knowing that in the end Sauron would surely have his will. Then he spoke to Elendil an the sons of Elendil, recalling the tale of the Trees of Valinor; and Isildur said no word, but went out by night and did a deed for which he was afterwards renowned. For he passed alone in disguise to Armenelos and to the courts of the King, which were now forbidden to the Faithful; and he came to the place of the Tree, which was forbidden to all by the orders of Sauron, and the Tree was watched day and night by guards in his service. At that time Nimloth was dark and bore no bloom, for it was late in the autumn, and its winter was nigh; and Isildur passed through the guards and took from the Tree a fruit that hung upon it, and turned to go. But the guard was aroused, and he was assailed and fought his way out, receiving many wounds; and he escaped, and because he was disguised it was not discovered who had laid hands on the Tree. But Isildur came at last hardly back to Rómenna and delivered the fruit to the hands of Amandil, ere his strength failed him. Then the fruit was planted in secret, and it was blessed by Amandil; and a shoot arose from it and sprouted in the spring. But when its first leaf opened then Isildur, who had lain long and come near to death, arose and was troubled no more by his wounds._
..and...
_. And Sauron urged the King to cut down the White Tree, Nimloth the Fair, that grew in his courts, for it was a memorial of the Eldar and of the light of Valinor._



> When the shadow came from the eastern shore.


Well, what caused the star to shine no more?
Sauron cutting the White Tree...


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 25, 2004)

> Ar-Pharazon made Sauron one of his councilors. But I have no idea what tower you are talking about.



Essentially, yes, but I'm looking for what he did to Sauron before he made him one of his counselors.



Finduilas said:


> Gosh...is this riddle still going on?!   Haha..good work, Helcaraxë!



Thank you.  



> Now let's see...
> 
> Is it something to do with this:
> _None too soon was this done; for after the assault the King yielded to Sauron and felled the White Tree, and turned then wholly away from the allegiance of his fathers. *But Sauron caused to be built upon the hill in the midst of the city of the Númenóreans, Armenelos the Golden, a mighty temple; and it was in the form of a circle at the base, and there the walls were fifty feet in thickness, and the width of the base was five hundred feet across the centre, and the walls rose from the ground five hundred feet, and they were crowned with a mighty dome. And that dome was roofed all with silver, and rose glittering in the sun, so that the light of it could be seen afar off; but soon the light was darkened, and the silver became black. For there was an altar of fire in the midst to the temple, and in the topmost of the dome there was a louver, whence there issued a great smoke. *And the first fire upon the altar Sauron kindled with the hewn wood of Nimloth, and it crackled and was consumed; but men marvelled at the reek that went up form it, so that the land lay under a cloud for seven days, until slowly it passed into the west._ (quote 1)
> ...



I don't see what these have to do with a forest of gold. Lhun had the right passage. What is the forest of gold in the passage?



> See quote 1....



Nope, sorry!  



> Quote:
> As Darkness put forth its hand;
> 
> Sauron starting taking over the Numenoreans by Ar-Pharazon and thus darkening their land.



Nope! I think Lhun had it earlier.


> Concerning Nimloth:
> _But when Amandil heard rumour of the evil purpose of Sauron he was grieved to the heart, knowing that in the end Sauron would surely have his will. Then he spoke to Elendil an the sons of Elendil, recalling the tale of the Trees of Valinor; and Isildur said no word, but went out by night and did a deed for which he was afterwards renowned. For he passed alone in disguise to Armenelos and to the courts of the King, which were now forbidden to the Faithful; and he came to the place of the Tree, which was forbidden to all by the orders of Sauron, and the Tree was watched day and night by guards in his service. At that time Nimloth was dark and bore no bloom, for it was late in the autumn, and its winter was nigh; and Isildur passed through the guards and took from the Tree a fruit that hung upon it, and turned to go. But the guard was aroused, and he was assailed and fought his way out, receiving many wounds; and he escaped, and because he was disguised it was not discovered who had laid hands on the Tree. But Isildur came at last hardly back to Rómenna and delivered the fruit to the hands of Amandil, ere his strength failed him. Then the fruit was planted in secret, and it was blessed by Amandil; and a shoot arose from it and sprouted in the spring. But when its first leaf opened then Isildur, who had lain long and come near to death, arose and was troubled no more by his wounds._
> ..and...
> _. And Sauron urged the King to cut down the White Tree, Nimloth the Fair, that grew in his courts, for it was a memorial of the Eldar and of the light of Valinor._
> ...



Or more generally....? What happened to Numenor?


----------



## Manveru (May 26, 2004)

*i'll try... for the last time*

_"With a forest of gold in a land of stone,"_

land of stone = Gondor (as been said before), as for that "forest":


from Silmarillion said:


> For seven days he [Ar-Pharazôn] journeyed with banner and trumpet, and he came to a hill, and he went up, and he set there his pavilion and his throne; and he sat him down in the midst of the land, and *the tents of his host were ranged all about him, blue, golden, and white, as a field of tall flowers.*


_"War brought they to doom's Dark Throne."_

Ar-Pharazôn's "move" to the East with his fleet...

_"A tower gleamed in a traitor's land" _

tower of Barad-dur...

_"As Darkness put forth its hand;"_

Sauron wanting to rule over Middle-earth:


> (...) and they reported that *Sauron was putting forth his might,* since Ar-Pharazôn had gone back from Middle-earth, *and he was pressing down upon the cities by the coasts; and he had taken now the title of King of Men*, and declared his purpose to drive the Númenóreans into the sea, and destroy even Númenor, if that might be.


_"The star shone no more"_

this refers to the diminish of Numenor and a beginning of its fall...
_"When the shadow came from the eastern shore."_


> Then he [Ar-Pharazôn] sent forth heralds, and he commanded Sauron to come before him and *swear to him fealty*.


after that... 


> ... Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-dur he came, *and made no offer of battle*. For he perceived that the power and majesty of the Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them; and he saw not his time yet to work his will with the Dúnedain. And he was crafty, well skilled to gain what he would by subtlety when force might not avail. *Therefore he humbled himself before Ar-Pharazôn and smoothed his tongue*...


then the "trip" of the Shadow from the eastern shore (westward... to Numenor):


> But Ar-Pharazôn was not yet deceived, and it came into his mind that, *for the better keeping of Sauron and of his oaths of fealty, he should be brought to Númenor, there to dwell as a hostage* for himself and all his servants in Middle-earth. To this Sauron assented as one constrained, yet in his secret thought he received it gladly, for it chimed indeed with his desire.



the end? 

---------
PS. sorry for my last post, Helcaraxë (it shouldn't have appeared... i was too tense lately) 

PPS. if i'm right about that riddle... let whoever wants to post post hers/his next... (except for Helcaraxë -> they're too tough -- kidding  ) thank you


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 29, 2004)

Manveru said:


> _"With a forest of gold in a land of stone,"_
> 
> land of stone = Gondor (as been said before), as for that "forest":



Yes.



> Originally Posted by from Silmarillion
> For seven days he [Ar-Pharazôn] journeyed with banner and trumpet, and he came to a hill, and he went up, and he set there his pavilion and his throne; and he sat him down in the midst of the land, and the tents of his host were ranged all about him, blue, golden, and white, as a field of tall flowers.



Yes!! Finally! 



> _"War brought they to doom's Dark Throne."_
> 
> Ar-Pharazôn's "move" to the East with his fleet...



Yes.



> _"A tower gleamed in a traitor's land" _
> 
> tower of Barad-dur...



Nope, sorry!  



> _"As Darkness put forth its hand;"_
> 
> Sauron wanting to rule over Middle-earth:



Essentially yes, but this line refers to a later period in which Sauron tried to rule ME. Namely, about the time the tower was raised.



> _"The star shone no more"_
> 
> this refers to the diminish of Numenor and a beginning of its fall...



Or rather the end of its fall, but you've essentially got it.



> _"When the shadow came from the eastern shore."_





> Then he [Ar-Pharazôn] sent forth heralds, and he commanded Sauron to come before him and swear to him fealty.



YES!!! That's what I was looking for. Actually, I was looking for the word "capture," but there's no difference in this case.



> after that...
> 
> then the "trip" of the Shadow from the eastern shore (westward... to Numenor):



YES!



> the end?



Not quite...what's the tower?

Excellent work, Man.

By the way, honorable mention to Lhun who essentially got it, but was missing three words of the answer to the riddle, and still hadn't deciphered a few lines of it.


----------



## Finduilas (May 29, 2004)

> "A tower gleamed in a traitor's land"



This probably....:

_Thus the days of Tar-Palantir became darkened with grief; and he would spend much of his time in the west, and there ascended often* the ancient tower of King Minastir upon the hill of Oromet nigh to Andúnië*, whence he gazed westward in yearning, hoping to see, maybe some sail upon the sea. But no ship came ever again from the West to Númenor, and Avallónë was veiled in cloud._


----------



## Helcaraxë (May 31, 2004)

Nope, sorry.


----------



## Manveru (Jun 7, 2004)

since i got almost whole riddle worked out... i won't repeat my answers, just this one, that my knowledge lacked earlier:


Helcaraxë said:


> "A tower gleamed in a traitor's land"


tower of Ecthelion (white tower), emphasising its opposition to Sauron's Dark Tower of Barad-dûr.


----------



## Helcaraxë (Jun 11, 2004)

Nope, sorry.


----------



## Manveru (Jun 12, 2004)

grrr... that's a tough one... at least another tower to be crossed out... how many to go? (as a matter of fact, my knowledge of towers at that time is getting shorter...) maybe a little teeny tiny (really don't have to, Helc, but please) detail more about it? brick-type, windows, surrounding area... anything  anything just to move on...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 13, 2004)

Hahahaha 

Helcaraxe, dear, I would've given it all up long ago and would've explained the answer. 
Good for you to keep up the fire.

But... say... it is an *event* that we are to guess and isn't the event the challenge of Ar-Pharazon to Sauron?

If so, does this tower matter?


----------



## Manveru (Jun 15, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Hahahaha
> 
> Helcaraxe, dear, I would've given it all up long ago and would've explained the answer.
> Good for you to keep up the fire.
> ...


soooooo...


----------



## Helcaraxë (Jun 16, 2004)

> grrr... that's a tough one... at least another tower to be crossed out... how many to go? (as a matter of fact, my knowledge of towers at that time is getting shorter...) maybe a little teeny tiny (really don't have to, Helc, but please) detail more about it? brick-type, windows, surrounding area... anything anything just to move on...



It gleams, but not of its own light. If you need another hint, I have one available if you call our toll-free number.   



> Hahahaha
> 
> Helcaraxe, dear, I would've given it all up long ago and would've explained the answer.
> Good for you to keep up the fire.
> ...



Well, actually, the event is the capture of Sauron. I can't tell you the significance of the tower without giving away which one it is, but it is connected to the riddle. Yes, you have "solved" the riddle, but it's no fun if you don't decipher this last line!


----------



## Helcaraxë (Jun 21, 2004)

I'm going away for two months in a few days, so you had best solve that last line quickly.


----------



## Firawyn (Jun 25, 2004)

Helcaraxë said:


> I'm going away for two months in a few days, so you had best solve that last line quickly.



Where to?

And what's the currant pic/event to guess? I've been away.


----------



## Manveru (Jun 26, 2004)

*here you go, Sabeen*



Helcaraxë said:


> With a forest of gold in a land of stone,
> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.
> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land
> As Darkness put forth its hand;
> ...


all of the lines have already been cracked save one...

_A tower gleamed in a traitor's land_

Helc wanted to know what's the tower in this line... crack it and you'll be the next to ask (think it's fair... no one couldn't guess this tower so far)

good luck


----------



## Helcaraxë (Jun 26, 2004)

I'm going to New Hampshire for two months, then soon after I'm going to the Galapagos Islands in Ecuador. In fact, I'm leaving for NH today, so guess the riddle quickly please.


----------



## Manveru (Jun 27, 2004)

*...*

with so many people around it shouldn't seem so hard, right? *laughs wild*

c'mon... there's hardly any attention paid to this thread anymore... and now... Helc, you're going away... if we want this thread to be able to caught some fresh wind in sails, i'm afraid we have to give someone (who's still around) a go to ask another riddle.

don't get me wrong (i understand this "absence"; i, myself, have not been too frequently here lately), Helcaraxe. i just feel that if you're away, we won't get a right answer neither (who'll tell us that?). it was a really great riddle, the main theme of it was "uncovered", so i think there's no point in further delving of books to find some minor detail... but... that's only my own five cents. do as you wish, people. i'm for a new riddle. anyone here to answer my call? or, if everybody's gone, there's no point in hanging around in here... 

if you (whoever you are) read this post, and agree with all that has been said, go on, don't restrain... ASK ANOTHER RIDDLE!!

thx


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: ...*



Manveru said:


> ... but... that's only my own five cents.


You are far too generous, Creature of Light! 
*FIVE* cents from you, when the others usually part with only two ?!!! (and not always willingly enough at that!) 

But... well... it's so very truly celestial, isn't it! 

I am afraid that we've missed Helcaraxe's permission, for he has obviously departed already.
So, we'll leave the tower unsolved for now and Helcaraxe with the right to require the "cracking" of this mystery when he comes back.

Until then... (_no poetry! I cannot beat Manv in this! _  )

_The Void was empty
And was silent,
And that silence pierced my heart.
Other worlds I had perceived 
Worlds wonderful and rich ... once...
But lost they were
The Void had all them die.

Then .... *Ea!* I cried.
And there in that silence,
A world I created!
Most wonderful, most rich...
And I gave it to my Children
To live and cherish it
And never let the Void 
Again!_


----------



## Manveru (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: ...*



Lhunithiliel said:


> You are far too generous, Creature of Light!
> *FIVE* cents from you, when the others usually part with only two ?!!! (and not always willingly enough at that!)
> 
> But... well... it's so very truly celestial, isn't it!


well...blush...that's the result of thinking (too much lately) in one language and writing in another (we say in PL: moje piec (5) groszy)


> Until then... (_no poetry! I cannot beat Manv in this! _  )


my dear _wraith_... it's not about competing (and, btw, i don't think my "rhyming thingies" are better poetry than your - be it blank - verse)



> _The Void was empty
> And was silent,
> And that silence pierced my heart.
> Other worlds I had perceived
> ...


hmm... i sense some trick hiding behind these lines (looking simple, at first sight)
say, _wraith_, is it Eru playing god, creating the world and so...?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 1, 2004)

Aaaa... You know me too well, Angel to think I'd post sth. so obvious!


----------



## Manveru (Jul 1, 2004)

music of the ainur then? the themes? grr... need to refresh my memory on master T's works (just don't wanna read ath right now, need a break from books - just for a while at least)

------------
should have thought you'd post sth not-so-straight-forward, Lhun


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 2, 2004)

Only don't go too deep into details! No need, indeed!  
Besides, we don't need another "unbreakable" riddle, right?

And in fact, this one is very easy. Just look at it from ... "above", wherefrom one can see the "picture" in one whole piece and understand it.

Think ... "globally"!  

**********
BTW, what are these "so many books" that you have been reading lately, Angel? And when are you going to let out and share with us all those tons of info in mythology and history that you've been talking about? I've been waiting with interest to read sth. about it !!! Would you share? (_*not* here, in this thread of course_  )


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 2, 2004)

New riddle....wow!  



> The Void was empty
> And was silent,
> And that silence pierced my heart.
> Other worlds I had perceived
> ...



Dunno why...but when reading this I think of Elrond. (?)  
The other part tells me I'm wrong but...well, have to say something.. 

* * *
Btw, has it something to do with the second creating of Arda?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 3, 2004)

Hi, fair Finduilas!!!
Am I *glad* to meet you again!!! 

No, dear, it does not refer to either Elrond, or the second ... what was it ? ... ah! yes!.... creating of Arda. (_had to scroll down to pick the words up to this place_   )

No!

Think *gloablly*! .... But didn't I already say this?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 3, 2004)

i don't get this hint, _wraith_ (maybe i'm dumb...)

what's more "global" than Arda in T-works?


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 3, 2004)

So then is it the Professor himself?  

I mean...he created ME as a legacy to his children...?  

hehe...stupid sugestion...but just can't think of something more global...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 4, 2004)

Finduilas said:


> hehe...stupid sugestion...but just can't think of something more global...


My fair Lady, how can you say such a thing, when in fact you are *absolutely right* when you say :



> So then is it the Professor himself?
> 
> I mean...he created ME as a legacy to his children...?


... of course, the "children" are we - all his readers that find his works inspiring and worthy.

Congratulations! 

* Your turn! * 

***********
(_Sorry, Angle!_  )


----------



## Manveru (Jul 4, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> (_Sorry, Angel!_  )


*pouts*

not fair those riddles... and i sink in books again like an idiot... feel silly... need a break


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 4, 2004)

Hmm...so a new one?

_When nights please you gently
and days are blessed with stars.
After tears of fallen demons
and centuries of wars and wars.

When reasons kindly are revealed
and music is no more a dream.
After desperate despair,
souls are flying on the wings of lean.

Then you shall be aware why,
and what, and where, also when.
You shall see the stars...glimmering
among a flowered garden, in an elven den.

An alliance...the Holy one
will soften every's soul.
And in those days when love was all,
a dove flied up and greeted envy foes._

This one's easy...fresh still... Might remember it very clearly...

Man, your turn...


----------



## Starbrow (Jul 4, 2004)

Is it when the elves first come to Valinor?


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 5, 2004)

Starbrow said:


> Is it when the elves first come to Valinor?



Mmm...nope...




> An alliance...the Holy one
> will soften every's soul.
> And in those days when love was all,
> a dove flied up and greeted envy foes.



This is probably the one that will tell you most.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 6, 2004)

Finduilas said:


> Hmm...so a new one?
> 
> Man, your turn...


Well, well, well.... And what about *me* ?  (  )

Well, princess, reading those lines of fine poetry, a picture comes to my mind - a white ship, the last white ship that sailed from the shores of ME and on its board are those with whom the Third Age of the history of that tortured world was leaving to the Blessed Realm( as it is told in the last chapters of the LotR)

Why do I get this vision? Is *this* the picture that your words have painted?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 6, 2004)

Finduilas said:


> _When reasons kindly are revealed
> and music is no more a dream.
> After desperate despair,
> souls are flying on the wings of lean.
> ...


this reminds me of _fear_ coming into gardens of lorien... but apparently, i've lost my touch in matter of riddles  

go ahead, ladies


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 6, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Well, well, well.... And what about *me* ?  (  )
> 
> Well, princess, reading those lines of fine poetry, a picture comes to my mind - a white ship, the last white ship that sailed from the shores of ME and on its board are those with whom the Third Age of the history of that tortured world was leaving to the Blessed Realm( as it is told in the last chapters of the LotR)
> 
> Why do I get this vision? Is *this* the picture that your words have painted?



Mum, don't get mad...  

You got it!  ...almost...
I mean you got the Age and the period (as well as the chapters  )...think a little more about the 'allance'... What could it be...  

Ahm, Man.....close...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 6, 2004)

am i?! hmm... close, close... how close exactly? warm... warmer... hot (burn? ouch) and how can i be close when that _wraith_ seems to be closer (for my touch)??  *aaaaaaaaghh, women!!*

i'm almost 100% (and they say you can't be that sure of anything in this world) that it's all about the end of war with Sauron, end of the One Ring, all peoples "melting" as one, under one king that has returned, but... did Aragorn make an alliance of some sort? grrr... can't remember anything right... shoot me


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 6, 2004)

Manveru said:


> am i?! hmm... close, close... how close exactly? warm... warmer... hot (burn? ouch) and how can i be close when that _wraith_ seems to be closer (for my touch)??  *aaaaaaaaghh, women!!*
> 
> i'm almost 100% (and they say you can't be that sure of anything in this world) that it's all about the end of war with Sauron, end of the One Ring, all peoples "melting" as one, under one king that has returned, but... did Aragorn make an alliance of some sort? grrr... can't remember anything right... shoot me



I was kidding...

It is, yes, with the end of the Third Age...and yes Aragorn did some kind of alliance...._a Holy one_...   

So..?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 6, 2004)

Finduilas said:


> So..?


soooooooooooo... i still don't remember (reread from the first chapter? i don't think i can manage that fast), but i'm sure Lhun does 

-----------
btw, don't fool around, naughtly girl... causing confusion


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 6, 2004)

Manveru said:


> soooooooooooo... i still don't remember (reread from the first chapter? i don't think i can manage that fast), but i'm sure Lhun does



Hehe..........Mum? 



> btw, don't fool around, naughtly girl... causing confusion



 ...come on it's easy.......think over a *Holy* alliance...
Don't worry, you'll get it..


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 7, 2004)

Manveru said:


> ... shoot me



Yummmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

An angel for breakfast? Mmmmmm!!!! 

   

********

And as for your riddle, tricksy princess, are you speaking of the alliance of Elves and men in him marrying Arwen?


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 7, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Yummmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
> 
> An angel for breakfast? Mmmmmm!!!!
> 
> ...



Ahh....a crunchy breakfast and a right guess....Mum...getting fit for the summer? 

Your turn.. 

Sorry, Man......after she spits you back, guess hers...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 7, 2004)

Ohohoho! 

Me? AGAIN? ??!!! 

I'll think of sth.


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 7, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Ohohoho!
> 
> Me? AGAIN? ??!!!
> 
> I'll think of sth.



_*sits and waits*_....


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 8, 2004)

Uhumm... 
Would you accept one that has to deal with events *not* from the "main" books?  (_I have in mind one touching story!!!_ )


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 8, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Uhumm...
> Would you accept one that has to deal with events *not* from the "main" books?  (_I have in mind one touching story!!!_ )



Hmm....go ahead! See if you can touch us!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 9, 2004)

All right...

Now.. I was listening to the "Lord of the Dance" - music and among the various tracks there is one, which is actually a song. It's called "Wedding day". If those of you, who read these lines, have the CD with the music of Michael Flatley's magnificent show, listen to this song particulary! It's so beautiful!

Anyway... I was listening to the words of that song and all of a sudden they reminded me of a touching love story in one of Tolkien writings - though very sad it is... but aren't they all!

So, I will use some of the words of that song and I'll add sth. more in order to build the riddle.
Off I am to "create" it.


----------



## Manveru (Jul 9, 2004)

non-fair play from our _wraith_ again?  guess i'm delicately "bunnished" out of here... suit yourself *shrags shoulders* (*then laughs his heart out*)

...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 9, 2004)

Then... I won't do that one. 

Angel... would you accept to take the turn in providing a new riddle, please?
My head now is full of other things...

PLEASE!!!


----------



## Manveru (Jul 9, 2004)

heeeeeeeeeeey... i was kidding. as always, c'mon, _wraith_


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 9, 2004)

LMAO 

Don't do that...post two riddles...we'll manage


----------



## Manveru (Jul 9, 2004)

LMblablawhat?! 

you wanna riddle? you sure? okay, can't be too tough when ladies ask (hush, don't tell Mel )

don't have anything "fresh", try this one:

_crouching shadows, bushy eyes,
unaimed arrow - unnamed dies.
closer looks erase disguise,
biting creature spares man wise._

good luck


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 9, 2004)

Nice one..

So..the death of Beleg?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 9, 2004)

*nods* (in BG means NO, right?)

not even close... read carefully, little one...


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 9, 2004)

Okay, ...the death of Turin? And the revealing of Nienor's identity?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 9, 2004)

nope... wanna try again?

a hint: good you caught & hold on to that Turin  but it's not that event... doesn't it flow from my lines like a music? strange... i thought it will be so obvious  hard to tell which line is crucial in it (there are only four...), but first, second and last are not so common in Tolkien's world


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 9, 2004)

Sorry Findi, but I'm gonna jump in on this one and say that it is the fight between Turin and Glaurung, sheerly because of the line 'biting creature spares man wise'. Did i get it?


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 9, 2004)

Morgoth said:


> Sorry Findi, but I'm gonna jump in on this one and say that it is the fight between Turin and Glaurung, sheerly because of the line 'biting creature spares man wise'. Did i get it?



Yes, I think you did.  Have to jump in more often, you know...

Man? 

* * *
*nods*...hehe......
Sometimes it means 'yes'...depends on which side you nod...up or aside...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 9, 2004)

hurray, glad some male ttfer found time to stomp in our riddle contest. sorry i got bad news at start (not polite), but... nope (did Turin spared Glaurung? thought so)

well... i see you keep on tracking the paths of Turin, hmm (he wasn't the main character when i was thinking of writing this riddle), it can be a way thru the thickets of my riddle's lines... go ahead, keep on tracking...

hint#2: _when outlaw's in need of home
one may find it near azure dome..._

now easy enough?

-----------
btw: my lovely little one... "to nod aside" = to shake, but i'm sure you knew that one  (so nod for 'yes' and shake for 'no'... or other way round, when in BG)


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 9, 2004)

If it's not the son, then it's the father...  
Is it something to do with Hurin? 

* * *
 shake...yes...just checking if you know it...    ...guess you do...


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 9, 2004)

Sorry Man, I was rushing earlier, when I said fight, I meant the Sack of Nargothrond, where Turin was bewitched by Glaurung, and was indeed spared. So, is the event the Sack Of Nargothrond, instead of the bewitching of Turin which I intially suggested?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 10, 2004)

sorry, but nay, nay, nay (that means your answer is also wrong, Findi).

i think i have to apologise... i know that i write clumsy in english and maybe my "word order" is misleading at times (like in this riddle... in polish we're free to build sentences from which side we choose to do so )

_biting creature spares man wise_ = that the _wise man_ spared _biting creature_ (this way i imagined it to be viewed) i guess, now it's a little clearer... and read the hint i provided to you... they're for you 

okay, how about now? anyone?


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 10, 2004)

Ok Man, in which case, my guess is that the event is Turin Turambar going to dwell with Mim the Petty-Dwarf in Amon Rudh. Correct?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 10, 2004)

aha... *claps his hands*

the _*petty*_ meeting... when Androg shot arrow(s) in the dark, that killed Khim, Mim's son (tho they didn't know it yet)... when Mim bit Androg as the outlaws wanted to check what he was exactly... 

you're perfectly correct, Blackheart
your turn now.


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 10, 2004)

Ok, I'm not really good at rhyming verse but here goes. A nice easy one, I think.

_The wrath first came to the echoed plain
The anger and pride daring both evil and good
But consumed by fire, by a dark captain slain
And with final breaths, he beheld the place
Where the power of darkness still stood_

Shouldn't take you guys long


----------



## Manveru (Jul 10, 2004)

coming to Middle-earth... dare... defeat... and final breaths of Spirit of Fire (ble, Feanor), am i right?


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 10, 2004)

> coming to Middle-earth... dare... defeat... and final breaths of Spirit of Fire (ble, Feanor), am i right?


You most certainly are, Man. Once again, it appears to be your turn.


----------



## Manveru (Jul 10, 2004)

thx, with pleasure...

_seeing naught
and when hearing's set to none;
not being caught,
fleeting shadow of the cloud that's gone;
absent from thought,
as merrymaking were gathering everyone,
what's been sought
was marred, drained and overrun._

should enjoy this one, Blackie


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 10, 2004)

Oooh, the Destruction of The Two Trees, methinks. And if I'm wrong, I'll eat my hat.


----------



## Manveru (Jul 10, 2004)

save the hat for next time, you're up


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 10, 2004)

Ok, here we go, once again nice and easy

Beyond all view, hidden from sight
Orc and Dragon and Demon of Might
Tore down this place, home of fairness and light
Endless songs sang of one of those who took flight


----------



## Grond (Jul 10, 2004)

Twas a place that was hidden so that none could see...
Save the Eagles from their lofty Eyrie.
Twas betrayed by Maeglin in ages past,
O Gondolin, Gondolin... you could not last.

Tears fall!!!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 11, 2004)

Hey, why's the rush ???  

* * * 

*MASTER GROND !!!* 

_bows_

Once again the _winds of change_ bring you to us .... and I'm so glad to see you around!


----------



## Scatha (Jul 11, 2004)

*Dragon peeking in*

Ohh, the master himself is in action.  Good to see you here, Grond.


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 11, 2004)

You got it Grond. You're up, I look forward to your riddle.


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 11, 2004)

Yes, me too...

*waits*


----------



## Grond (Jul 11, 2004)

Laughing, dancing, singing I,
Wrestling, prancing, bringing I,
When utter evil rears his head,
My wrath, my anger, my aim to make him dead.

Who am I??


----------



## Manveru (Jul 12, 2004)

can it be Tulkas?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 12, 2004)

Ah, Angel!
Swifter you flew than me! 

While I was in other halls to defend the *glorious* Feanor (  ) you, I see, have sneaked in and gave the true answer!


----------



## Manveru (Jul 12, 2004)

and what he's worth, this "jeweller"...?

but let us wait for Grond's approve of my answer... don't be hasty, _wraith_


----------



## Grond (Jul 12, 2004)

Manveru said:


> and what he's worth, this "jeweller"...?
> 
> but let us wait for Grond's approve of my answer... don't be hasty, _wraith_


And I thought I was being soooo clever and that it would take a while for someone to guess this one. Well, of course it is the new god, Tulkas... he who came last but leads the battle from the front. Your turn.


----------



## Manveru (Jul 13, 2004)

Grond said:


> And I thought I was being soooo clever and that it would take a while for someone to guess this one.


well... *tries to look knowledgeable* i was lucky

my riddle will appear shortly...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 14, 2004)

_great leap of the white
arborescent gate broken by night
soaked with fear look o'er shoulder
fearsome cry makes blood run colder
company of might veiled in grey
deserter-mind induced to obey
cruel clash; not fought, rather dreamed
over a boarder that ran and gleamed_

the event is...


----------



## Grond (Jul 14, 2004)

I've got it but I'll give someone else a shot.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 14, 2004)

Manveru said:


> _great leap of the white
> arborescent gate broken by night
> soaked with fear look o'er shoulder
> fearsome cry makes blood run colder
> ...


Hmmm ... 

The part about the "_fearsome cry makes blood run colder_" I understand... After all, it's one of my brothers that usually "express" themselves in this "polite" way!  

Then..._"company of might veiled in grey"_ - the Dunedains of Arnor? The "Grey Company"?

As for "_great leap of the white"_ - this must have sth. to do with that magnificent Meara-horse, hence - with Gandlaf the White.

But the rest....   

Say... how about that moment when Gandalf takes Pip to Minas Tirith at night ...
Or maybe not...

And .... That "clash" - this reminds me of Aragorn looking into the Palantir and facing the Eye....

What to make out ot this all?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 14, 2004)

don't know what's on Grond's mind (wonder if he's right?), but i thought you'd crack it, my dear _wraith_...

sorry... tho you got that part with a nazgul-cry correct (hush, there's more of them - your brethren - in this riddle than meets the eye - that's a *hint*, of course)

wish to try again, shadowy one...?


----------



## Grond (Jul 14, 2004)

Manveru said:


> don't know what's on Grond's mind (wonder if he's right?), but i thought you'd crack it, my dear _wraith_...
> 
> sorry... tho you got that part with a nazgul-cry correct (hush, there's more of them - your brethren - in this riddle than meets the eye - that's a *hint*, of course)
> 
> wish to try again, shadowy one...?


I was thinking about something that transpired on the other side of the mountains from Dunharrow!! Hint! Hint!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 15, 2004)

Ah, Gentlemen! What is it? It seems you both are most generously trying to help me by all means to guess this riddle... 
Thank you!!! 

Say... are you speaking of the Path of the Dead and those ghosts?  
Maybe it's not that ...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 15, 2004)

Grond said:


> I was thinking about something that transpired on the other side of the mountains from Dunharrow!! Hint! Hint!


nope, sorry... don't listen to that 

_over a boarder that ran and gleamed_ - "run" in this line means "to flow"... 3 words of hint: haste, wet, hide (and don't forget that it must "contain" you know what, _wraith_...)

c'mon, it's easy, tho maybe my english is messing around again


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 15, 2004)

Is it something to do with the Fellowship of the Hobbits  running from the Nazgul and reaching the river...to board a boat...?


----------



## Grond (Jul 15, 2004)

I really thought you were referring to the Passing of the Grey Company and the attack of the fleet of the Corsairs when the ghosts were finally released. 

Based on your latest hints, I would say it is the Breaking of the Gate by the Witch-king and then the ensuing Battle of Pelennor Fields??


----------



## Manveru (Jul 15, 2004)

well... gates in my riddle aren't the real gates... it's not that event, Grond.

i'd say Findi is closer... it is hobbits' thing (not also tho) and wraiths are there... c'mon... that's easy now, very easy...


----------



## Grond (Jul 15, 2004)

Attack on the Hobbits by the Morgul in Bree??? I am just guessing.


----------



## Manveru (Jul 15, 2004)

nooooooope...


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 15, 2004)

Hmm...a desperate try...

The hobbits passing the Dead Marshes?


----------



## Grond (Jul 15, 2004)

Watcher in the Water before the Gates of Moria?? 

Arborescent gate?? Hmmmm??


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 15, 2004)

Good riddle Man, I dont think I've got it, but as a stab in the dark guess, based on a few little bits, I would say that it is Frodo looking into the mirror of Galadriel. But like I said, I'm probably wrong  .


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 16, 2004)

I am totally at a loss!   

You gave three words as a hint: "haste, wet, hide"...
And I thought that Findi got it by her suggestion about Frodo and co. passig the river in haste to escape from "my brethren" ... 
But you say "No!"


----------



## Manveru (Jul 16, 2004)

*shakes his head* (you better guess that riddle if you don't want me to hurt my neck)

you stick with hobbits, you stick with ringwraiths... but there are other rivers in middle-earth, don't you think? (of course it's a hint)

well... 

----------
btw, thx, Morgoth, i thought so, too... but it seems it's not comprehensible (that makes it not so good at all)


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 16, 2004)

Okay...two suggestions...

-Frodo, riding with Glorfindel towards Rivendell.

-Legolas, shooting the "Winged Messenger" at Sarn Gebir.

Any improvement? 

* * *
heh...no it's very good......a little more and it will be as good as Helcaraxë's...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 16, 2004)

Finduilas said:


> Okay...two suggestions...
> 
> -Frodo, riding with Glorfindel towards Rivendell.
> 
> ...


_the choice is yours, but... you say: choose_ (as RHCP sing)

c'mon, little one, read my riddle again and then choose (i asure one of your suggestions is right, just read carefully, pls)


> heh...no it's very good......a little more and it will be as good as Helcaraxë's...


well... believe it or not, but i like my riddles to be cracked (without any deeper digging into details)


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 16, 2004)

Then...I choose the first one...Frodo and Glorfindel?

This is what made me pick on it:



> over a boarder that ran and gleamed - "run" in this line means "to flow"... 3 words of hint: haste, wet, hide



Because the river "flowed" in the end.....literally...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 16, 2004)

only this line?!  
gosh, i think it's the end of my riddle-writing... my dear little one, there are so many more "reasons" (maybe i "dressed" the event with the wrong "sounds"). if you care to look, see here:


> *from "The Lord of the Rings, Book 1, Chapter XII: Flight to the Ford*
> _**** *The white horse leaped forward*. The hobbits ran down the slope. Glorfindel and Strider followed as rear-guard. They were only half way across the flat, when suddenly there was a noise of horses galloping. *Out of the gate in the trees* that they had just left rode a Black Rider. He reined his horse in, and halted, swaying in his saddle. Another followed him, and then another; then again two more.
> **** 'Ride forward! Ride!' cried Glorfindel to Frodo.
> **** *He did not obey at once, for a strange reluctance seized him.* Checking the horse to a walk, he turned and looked back. The Riders seemed to sit upon their great steeds like threatening statues upon a hill, dark and solid, while all the woods and land about them receded as if into a mist. Suddenly he knew in his heart that they were silently commanding him to wait. Then at once fear and hatred awoke in him. His hand left the bridle and gripped the hilt of his sword, and with a red flash he drew it.
> ...


i tried the best i can to convert and put into order of the riddle the highlighted spots in master T's text...

your turn, little one


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 16, 2004)

Yes yes...but that was just the most obvious...

Okay...there it is...won't tease you a lot:

_A sip of friendship...
anticipating darkness in a lonesome road.
Desires, satisfied...with kindness of a noble.
A longing, equaled by none...
yet diverted by a Queen's goodness.
A legacy, bathed in bright..., giving the lightness light.
A hope, hooked by the heart...,
promising dreams to gather love-apart.
In the name of deeds of ages old,
She continues spreading splendour forth..._


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 16, 2004)

Oooh, is it Galadriel and the gifts she gives (in particular the Light of Earendil) to the Fellowship?


----------



## Finduilas (Jul 16, 2004)

Morgoth said:


> Oooh, is it Galadriel and the gifts she gives (in particular the Light of Earendil) to the Fellowship?



You got it!

Your turn.


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 16, 2004)

Ok, but unfortunatly, my riddle wont be on until tomorrow evening, I've just been at a gig and my ears are ringing and I cant think straight. So, you're all gonna have to wait


----------



## Manveru (Jul 17, 2004)

with pleasure (and anxiety)...


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 20, 2004)

Sorry, I wont be able to post a riddle, I haven't thought of a good one yet, and I'm just squeezing this post in to pass on my turn to someone else. This is also a post why I wont be active in the Guild for the next week, as I am off to Tunisia. So, cya'll next Thursday!


----------



## Grond (Jul 20, 2004)

Hopeless, helpless, forlorned am I.
Valiant, gallant, adorned am I.
Standing alone, outnumbered and overwhelmed, 
I perish on the borders of my promised realm. 
Who am I?


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 21, 2004)

Denathor, Steward of Gondor?

Hey even if I'm not right, it could apply, couldn't it?


----------



## Grond (Jul 21, 2004)

Denethor pretty much perished in the seat of his realm... although you are right, the riddle could have kind of applied to him. I'm thinking of someone else and my riddle has to be clarified. I have changed the last line which gives a big hint.


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 22, 2004)

Okay at least give me this one hint: Are we talking about and elf, or a man?


----------



## Grond (Jul 22, 2004)

This isn't that hard... and, understand that this needn't be directly related to LOTR. It could be out of Sil, UT or HoME or be related in several of the works. 

Also, note that I've added another clue (again in yellow). He was defeated while standing alone. (Darn... that's a good clue)


----------



## Grond (Jul 22, 2004)

Nope! This is from the time of the Fellowship and it involves a "non" character.


----------



## Starbrow (Jul 22, 2004)

Is it Balin, son of Fundin, in Moria?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 23, 2004)

Grond said:


> Hopeless, helpless, forlorned am I.
> Valiant, gallant, adorned am I.
> Standing alone, outnumbered and overwhelmed,
> I *perish* on the borders of my promised realm.
> Who am I?


Master, did you use the verb "perish" in present and not in past tense on purpose?  

Hmmm ... do you, by the slightest chance, speak of Rivendell?
I know, I know...  
But you said : _"non"-character_ ...


----------



## Grond (Jul 23, 2004)

Hopeless, helpless, forlorned am I.
Valiant, gallant, adorned am I.
Standing alone, outnumbered and overwhelmed, 
I perished on the borders of my promised realm. 
By the river, my grave is found.
Not in the earth... but in a mound.
Who am I?

Somebody... jump on it. I've all but given it away now.


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 23, 2004)

Theoden's son!!! Um..um..um.....Theodred!!!!


----------



## Grond (Jul 23, 2004)

Sabeen said:


> Theoden's son!!! Um..um..um.....Theodred!!!!


DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!!! You're up!!


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 24, 2004)

I carried a sack of goods home one day
by sad excuses for men I was delayed

They asked me for help and I complyed with a plead
'Please let me go home first, and I will return indeed'

They asked me to leave my load as a token
And as they bound me, my heart was broken

Who am I?


Okay, have at it!


----------



## Manveru (Jul 25, 2004)

mim the petty dwarf...

---------
BTW, isn't it amazing? one of my last riddles was about the same event... so many words it can be woven into...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 25, 2004)

*i know it's impolite, but...*

... since i'm pretty sure about the answer and having prepared a new one... may i? 

_i bled for my land,
for our leader i bled.
each day; every night
sinking in cold bed.

ere evil befell
my heart was pleased.
feeling that soon
by no means could be eased.

light, for which i yearned,
proved to be a dead snare.
tricked, tortured, faltered;
the eye would see the lair._

have fun


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 25, 2004)

Damn that was so easy...so it is your turn, I'll be back to have a run at it...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 25, 2004)

Have mercy, Angel!
A hint?
... At least the age?


----------



## Grond (Jul 25, 2004)

*Re: i know it's impolite, but...*



Manveru said:


> ... since i'm pretty sure about the answer and having prepared a new one... may i?
> 
> _i bled for my land,
> for our leader i bled.
> ...


Ungoliant or Shelob?? WAGS!!!


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 25, 2004)

> i bled for my land,
> for our leader i bled.
> each day; every night
> sinking in cold bed.
> ...



Perhaps Smeagol/Golum? I dunno. 

Give us the age we're looking at... _please!!!!!!!!!_


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 26, 2004)

BTW, Angel, are we looking for a _character_ or for an _event_?

It's so strange ... I read the three stanzas and each reminds me of different things, characters, events...  ... of Gollum, of "my" great "Masters" - the Dark Lords of Arda and of ME ... of "my brethren" ...even...


----------



## Manveru (Jul 26, 2004)

sorry, guys, for not replying to your early guesses in time... but due to frequent storms in my region i was cut off from hanging around in here (now it's working, hope for longer period...)

well... no one guessed so far

HINT: you asked about age, okay, i'll be more precise (maybe) - it had happened just before great love of middle-earth (i.e. B & L) came on stage...

any clearer? c'mon... it's easy... it tells the story about love, longing, tricks, fake promises... (wooooe... need to hold my tongue not to reveal all at once)

good luck


----------



## Manveru (Jul 29, 2004)

HINT: _one twelfth of stealth-band,
my name starts with G.
beside great leader i did stand,
happy? that's not me._


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 29, 2004)

Is it Gil-Galad??


----------



## Manveru (Jul 29, 2004)

naaaaaaaaaaaay...


----------



## ely (Jul 29, 2004)

Could it be Gwindor?


----------



## Manveru (Jul 30, 2004)

nope, try again... (psst, not an elf)


----------



## Firawyn (Jul 31, 2004)

> i bled for my land,
> for our leader i bled.
> each day; every night
> sinking in cold bed.
> ...



Gamling?
Grimbeorn?
Is it either of these?


----------



## ely (Aug 1, 2004)

Gorlim the Unhappy?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 1, 2004)

*and...*

... we have a winner!!!! 

easy, wasn't it, ely? 
your turn now.

-----------
now you all may read my riddle again and say (slapping your foreheads): "of course it's Gorlim!"


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 1, 2004)

Shhhhii.....yeah um... I've never even heard of him...no dip I couldn't figure it out...

Alright ely, bring it on!

Notes: This might take awhile!


----------



## ely (Aug 1, 2004)

Many went there
Most there stayed
Some came back
Some never breathe again
Friends turned to enemies
Enemies turned to friends
Victory claimed the life of the one
Who longed it most
They went to do it
And they did it
And one got something that changed a lot.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 3, 2004)

This reminds me very much of the Flight of the Noldor, Ely. And about the sad events at Aqualonde and all... 
Am I close?  

*********
BTW, could you tell me where you have got your avatar from, please? I'm curious for I have seen this tree in the LoTR Plaza Forum for the Gondorians of Minist Tirith.


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 3, 2004)

> Many went there
> Most there stayed
> Some came back
> Some never breathe again
> ...



Was it the battle that first destroyed Sauron?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 4, 2004)

Oooooh! 
I think I lost it again!  
I am sure Sabeen's guess is right.


----------



## Manveru (Aug 4, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Oooooh!
> I think I lost it again!


there's always another try, _wraith_. smile 

oh, and we need to wait for ely's approval to be sure, but it seems to me like we have a winner...


----------



## ely (Aug 4, 2004)

> This reminds me very much of the Flight of the Noldor, Ely. And about the sad events at Aqualonde and all...
> Am I close?


Well, no...



> Was it the battle that first destroyed Sauron?


No, not that either. 

***



> BTW, could you tell me where you have got your avatar from, please? I'm curious for I have seen this tree in the LoTR Plaza Forum for the Gondorians of Minist Tirith.


Well, I took it from some forum, but I don't remember which one anymore. But there it was really lovely, moving and all, so you could see the white tree growing but that way it was too big to use here, so I just made it non-moving... But it's still very pretty.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 4, 2004)

NOT the Last Alliance???  

And I was sure about that!!!
A hint... then? 

As for the avatar.. I know how it looks moving and shining and all..


----------



## Manveru (Aug 4, 2004)

as for the avatar... i see you've got returned to the roots, Lhun  (that's how i remember you from the start - tho, not black and white, but cool: real nazgul)



> Victory claimed the life of the one
> Who longed it most...


this reminds me of that greatest "jeweler" (i.e. Feanor) and his death at the Angband's gates... tho i cannot crack the whole of your riddle, ely 
could i be close?


----------



## ely (Aug 4, 2004)

> this reminds me of that greatest "jeweler" (i.e. Feanor) and his death at the Angband's gates... tho i cannot crack the whole of your riddle, ely
> could i be close?



No, that's not it. Sorry. And you're not close either.  


A hint? Hmm... Well, that "many" in my riddle doesn't mean thousands or hundreds. It's a smaller "many"...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 5, 2004)

Manveru said:


> as for the avatar... i see you've got returned to the roots, Lhun  (that's how i remember you from the start - tho, not black and white, but cool: real nazgul)


Ah, Angel!!!
Was that the avatar you got to know me with?
So, you had not witnessed the transition of Lhunithiliel from an Elven maiden to a Nazgul! 
Anyway, I like this one ... I really do! And the large-size picture is amazing! 

Ely, my dear, ..... hmmmmmmmm.... that hint I'm afraid did not help much .... How about an age when this event happened? 

Pleeeeeaaaaseeeee!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 5, 2004)

ely said:


> Many went there
> Most there stayed
> Some came back
> Some never breathe again


again... some of my "reminds-me-of"

these lines give me the impression of... fellowship of the ring: _some came back_ hobbits, gandalf etc. _some never breathe again_ -> boromir?  
is it something close to it?


----------



## ely (Aug 5, 2004)

You're quite close, Manveru, as it is indeed an event of the third age.  
But not the one you mentioned...


----------



## Manveru (Aug 5, 2004)

a wink, eh? i bet that means something... let me see... that must be something really really easy... hmm... third age...

i'd say: Balin and co. heading for Moria to get it back for the Dwarves...


> Victory claimed the life of the one
> Who longed it most...


that must be speaking about Balin's death... he wanted so much to see Moria in the hands of the Dwarves. so...


----------



## ely (Aug 6, 2004)

Now you're even closer, but not yet there...



> a wink, eh? i bet that means something... let me see... that must be something really really easy... hmm... third age...


  Yup, it's easy. Especially when you know the answer to it, and had made the riddle yourself.


----------



## Manveru (Aug 7, 2004)

not Balin and his Dwarves?! i give up then... which event can be close to that? oh, well, let others try...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 7, 2004)

C'mon, Angel !!!
Don't give up!

I was counting on you to come the closest possible to the true answer and then ... let *me* have the hounour of the final stroke!   

Won't you do this for your "old friend"?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 7, 2004)

hmm, since you put it this way, my dear _wraith_... okay, i'll try one more time: *gandalf, dwarves and hobbit setting out for smaug's gold, glory and ruling of the kingdom of the lonely mountain again*

here's my stream of reasoning:


ely said:


> Many went there


13 dwarves + a wizard & a hobbit


> Most there stayed


dwarves that survived the battle of five armies...


> Some came back


that would be gandalf & bilbo, right?


> Some never breathe again


thorin oaken shield, kili, fili...


> Friends turned to enemies
> Enemies turned to friends


elves of mirkwood feat. people from lake-town...


> Victory claimed the life of the one
> Who longed it most


thorin... yes, wanted so much to rule the lonely mountain again 


> They went to do it
> And they did it


yeah, with a little help of some hobbit... bard, who killed that nasty smaug...


> And one got something that changed a lot.


bilbo and the one ring?

hmm... i guess i'm closest possible this time, ely 

----------
PS. hit them, _wraith_, hit them!


----------



## ely (Aug 7, 2004)

You're not close anymore, now you're exactly there!  

Yes, the event was indeed Quest of Erebor. 

And all of your stream of reasoning is also correct.  


Well done!


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 7, 2004)

Man I thought I had that one...okay Manveru. Your up!!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 8, 2004)

*i'm high...*

i want to dedicate these lines to my girl - _for the good promise of (another) the year_ (yea, it's almost a year now, mmm)

here they are:

_When midnight's in power
In this very hour
When beauty sprang from below
Forgetting all frosts or snow
After flowery birth out there
Is held in naturally hidden lair
For the good promise of the year

When night speaks with no word
And low music is heard
New-leaved trees with silent glow
All seemingly drowned in sorrow
Then first light arrives in fair
Above the hill in the East they stare
For the good promise of the year_

give me the event's name and i'll make you a winner, whoever you might be


----------



## ely (Aug 9, 2004)

Beautiful lines they are indeed.  

But I'm not sure about the event. The first stanza makes me think of one event, and the second one of another. 

Have to guess something... 

Hmm... Arwen and Aragorn meeting in Lothlorien and giving their vows?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 10, 2004)

why, thank you, ely  all for my readers 

and... nope. tho my lines are a small dedication, they speak of no couple-moments  (is that a hint? hmm... well... yea!)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 10, 2004)

Ah, my dear winged friend from the skies....
Do we really _*have*_ to solve this riddle?
Can't we just enjoy the beauty of your wonderful poetry??? 

Hmmm... I don't know why ... those verses somehow remind of two things - of the shoot of the lost White Tree of Gondor that Aragorn finds, but also about the little white flowers around that fallen king's head that Frodo and Sam saw on their way to Mordor...  

------------------

P.S. I lost the chance you gave me, Angel. D*** computers! But do not regret it ! Not a single bit! ... Now that I've read your stanzas!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 10, 2004)

hey you, _wraith_... you make me start blushing, c'mon, they're just rhymes 

and nope... not a third-age event...

*hint: it's annual...*

think hard (all of you). when you crack it, you'll have your chance, Lhun. just, don't look too far (you know i'm shallow in matters of Tolkien's legendarium).

good luck


----------



## ely (Aug 12, 2004)

Erukyermë - the annual celebration of praying to Eru held in Numenor at the beginning of each spring?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 12, 2004)

nope... not that one


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: i'm high...*



Manveru said:


> _When midnight's in power
> In this very hour
> When beauty sprang from below
> Forgetting all frosts or snow
> ...



Is it LOTR or other Tolkien work - give us that.


----------



## Manveru (Aug 13, 2004)

say: please  (kidding  )

well, don't know how to precise it... it's mentioned in _the silmarillion_, but i guess it's described in _home_ (i got it myself as a small description, haven't read _home_ myself yet, so as you see, can't be precise on that. i'm only sure that it's from the tolkien for real)

------
btw, i thought my last hint was clear enough, just look for it (there's not so many annual festivals in tolkien's legendarium, or am i wrong?  )


----------



## ely (Aug 14, 2004)

*Just some speculations*



> Above the hill in the East they stare
> For the good promise of the year



They could stare in the East because the Sun rises from there, but maybe because they are themselves in the West.

So could it be some kind of festival held in Aman where the participants think of Middle-Earth?


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 14, 2004)

**** I'm sunk. I've not read the Sil yet...


----------



## Manveru (Aug 15, 2004)

oh, you should do this as soon as possible, Sabeen.

ely, i'm affraid nope; when you look to the east, you can always be considered to stand on the west (or sth like this). actually, the event is held east of aman, deep in middle-earth... try to concentrate on that _*naturally hidden lair*_. easier now?


----------



## ely (Aug 15, 2004)

*Another try*

The Gates of Summer, a festival in Gondolin, during which Morgoth attacked and destroyed the city?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 15, 2004)

Manveru said:


> ... try to concentrate on that _*naturally hidden lair*_. easier now?


It could be Gondolin ... but it could be also Cuiviénen ...
though what annual event might that be??? 

Angel... we need a stronger hint .... please


----------



## Manveru (Aug 15, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Angel... we need a stronger hint .... please


not anymore... ely got that correct 

must admit, that was one of the toughest riddles (i guess it'll stay the toughest - i promised sth to s.o) i've ever written, e.g.


> After flowery birth out there *


i wonder if anyone (even ely, the winner) got that cracked? (i have to add that i, for one, wouldn't guess this line for sure)

congrats, ely, for breaking my "code". your turn now.

------
ps. * - the festival of Nost-na-Lothion or *the Birth of Flowers* which preceeded the Gates of Summer each year (for the good promise of the year)


----------



## ely (Aug 16, 2004)

Uh, that was hard indeed. And you're right, Manveru, I didn't get the "After flowery birth out there" part as it was meant, I just considered it spring.  

Anyway, I think that after such a tough riddle, you could appreciate something easy.  And here it comes:

_One jewel he had
Another he bought for the first
Beautiful they were
Happiness they brought
And sadness and grief
And destruction and death._


----------



## Manveru (Aug 16, 2004)

ely said:


> Uh, that was hard indeed. And you're right, Manveru, I didn't get the "After flowery birth out there" part as it was meant, I just considered it spring.


it was meant to hit at that 

as for a riddle (nice and easy), i got it (at least think so), but... will give someone else a shot this time...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 17, 2004)

Well.... It seems, _*that*_ statistics  will never be changed!!!
Right, Angel??? 

As for the new riddle .... what other than the masterpiece of the greatest jeweller of whole Arda  might those jewels be, if not the Silmarilli??? 
Only they kept the _fiery spirit_ of their creator ... and just like him, they brought both - greatness, happiness, splendour - on one side, and destruction, sorrow and grief - on the other.

So, when you speak of those jewels in your riddle, Ely, I guess you mean the Silmarilli?

As for the person "hidden" in the riddle and the event .... Maybe you mean the King of Doriath?  

****
Ah! If Gollum had met _me_ (instead of Bilbo) for that riddle contest, I'd be still wandering the caves under the mountains


----------



## Manveru (Aug 17, 2004)

nay, my "gifted" _wraith_. you'd be eaten...


----------



## ely (Aug 17, 2004)

There is something you missed about the riddle, Lhun...  

The person is indeed Thingol, and one of those jewels is a Silmaril. But what about the other one?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 18, 2004)

I thought of that necklace, Ely - the Nauglamír ! 
It was a "jewel" of itself and with a Silmaril on caused so much of both - good and evil.

Is that what your riddle is about ?
****



Manveru said:


> nay, my "gifted" wraith. you'd be eaten...


Bah! 
Who'd want to taste the bitterness of a twisted and angry creatre, Angel !!!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 18, 2004)

well... i like you as you are... without "biting" 

as far as riddle is concerned, i thought of "time" when Thingol sent Beren on a quest for the Silmaril if he wanted to "get" his "jewel", i.e. Luthien... we know what happened next.

but...

your reasoning seems quite adequate, too 

ely?


----------



## ely (Aug 18, 2004)

You are right, Manveru, I meant Luthien.  

As well as the Silmaril, Luthien also brought Thingol both happiness and sadness; and she was a jewel indeed.  And Thingol didn't really buy the Silmaril for Nauglamir or the other way round, but you _can_ say that he bought the Silmaril for Luthien because in a way he did... 

So, I guess it's up you two to decide who will give the next riddle...


----------



## Manveru (Aug 18, 2004)

may i, shy and humble... 

... give the next run to our favourite _wraith_? ('course i may, which i do with joy... and sorrow love writing riddles so darn much)

go ahead, Lhun


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 18, 2004)

You know, I like writing them too. Unfourtunatly, my ME knowlage only goes so far and thus, my riddles are VERY easy. Such a pity...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 19, 2004)

Nah!
Shoot *your* riddle, Angel!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 19, 2004)

it's so hard to refuse a lady... 

_Pull and hold
In search for gold
We will take any risk

Pull and hold
We're tough and bold
Our spirits - high and brisk

Pull and hold
Thru dark and cold
To other side we whisk

Pull and hold
My lads, behold
A sleepy-waves that frisk_

easy as ABC, eh?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 19, 2004)

hehehe .... Angel .... 
I _t h i n k _ I can guess this one!
But .... maybe you made it easy on purpose!!!  

And with this fantasticaly melodic poetry, my friend, do you describe the Bilbo and Co. on their Quest of Erebor?

(_say "yes"....say "yes".... say "yes"...._  )


----------



## Manveru (Aug 19, 2004)

well, yes...

but...

it's too general. try to precise it and i'll call you a winner. read in it again (if you like it so much) carefully. there are some tiny details that describe one of their "adventures" during the Quest 

and yea, i did it on purpose (or rather "on request"; or maybe i don't want to write too many tough riddles - easier are more fun, don't you think?and maybe you'll set at naught that _statistics_ of ours)

-----------
BTW, Sabeen, do you really think making a hard riddle depends on your in-depth knowledge? c'mon... look at those of my hand (and i only read _the lord of the rings_, _the silmarillion_ and classic _hobbit_ not much for a tolkienologist)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 20, 2004)

It reminds me of that episode when they were climbing a steep rocky path towards that door to the lair of the dragon.


> Along this they could carry no bundles or packs, so narrow and breathless was it, with a fall of a hundred and fifty feet beside them on to sharp rocks below; but each of them took a good coil of rope wound tight about his waist, and so at last without mishap they reached the little grassy bay.
> 
> "I am too fat for such fly-walks," he said. "I should turn dizzy and tread on my beard, and then you would be thirteen again. And the knotted ropes are too slender for my weight." Luckily for him that was not true, as you will see.



Is this the episode, Angel?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 20, 2004)

nope. one down, a few more to go...


----------



## Hirila (Aug 20, 2004)

> Pull and hold
> My lads, behold
> A sleepy-waves that frisk


Could it be Thorin and Co. standing at the Enchanted River in Mirkwood, pulling poor fat Bombur out of the water?

A guess from an unexpected guest.. no, friends, I'm not back... I'm just on a vacation in the lands of Tolkienology, sorry. School holds me tight and will do so for quite some time.


----------



## Manveru (Aug 20, 2004)

*"veni, vidi, vici...", said miss H.*

unexpected, but not unwelcome  nice to see some "old" faces around (no offence, miss H.)

btw, good guess. it is THE event i was trying to hide not-so-tough this time (_wraith_ will be  when she'll see that post tomorrow morning, so... CHEER UP, my dear Lhun. give us that beautifully stunning wraithish smile. there will be more of these, i promise  ).

what do we do next if our busy Hirila cannot post her riddle? (i heard "little one" is back in town again, maybe she'll join the game? or... maybe some guy? - feel a little lonely, but not low, in this company)


----------



## Hirila (Aug 20, 2004)

Don't try to stop me from posting a riddle, Angel M!
This is more fun than writing term papers. So here it is, short and sweet. Have fun! 

_His first deed to mention,
A cruel end it brought.
Bringing light into the dark,
But, oh, what light!
Noone had thought._

Oh, I think I missed TTF more than I thought, these last months... I shall try to be around oftener, but I can't promise.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 21, 2004)

Grrrrr!  
This is what I get for attending Ishtar's concert last night instead of posting my answer here!
For I already had guessed that that was about the crossing of the Enchanted stream!

Anyway, I am not sorry ! Not the least!
First, because I am overjoyed to see Hirila back! 
Second, because I attended a wonderful concert .. or I'd say it was rather a great discoteque in the open with wonderful music!! I had such fun! 

So, here's my _*stunning wraithish smile*_ - 

Now .. about Hirila's riddle...

Hmmm... Guys, am i obsessed with the Silmarilli and their creator, or is this riddle exactly about them?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 21, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Hmmm... Guys, am i obsessed with the Silmarilli and their creator, or is this riddle exactly about them?


both... *clear angelic laughter*


----------



## Hirila (Aug 21, 2004)

Wrong, dear friends, wrong. At least the part with the connection between the riddle and the Silmarili.
I would never never never be so insolent as to judge Lhun's obessions... I'm just sorry you missed your chance of posting your guess. But I know how it feels to attend a concert you have wished to attend for years but never got the opportunity to do so and then finally you stand there.. listen to the music you adore, the voice you hear in your daydreams... *sigh*

I'm getting carried away with my dream-come-true... my first Chris de Burgh concert... one of many to follow, I hope.

But until then: go on and try another guess!


----------



## ely (Aug 22, 2004)

> His first deed to mention,
> A cruel end it brought.
> Bringing light into the dark,
> But, oh, what light!
> Noone had thought.



And I was so sure it has something to do with the Silmarils. Hmm... is it somehow connected with dragons or balrogs - those fiery creatures? 

And can you tell me if the light is actual light or if it symbolizes something (for example hope)?


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 22, 2004)

Was it Gandalf's fight with the belrog in Moria??



> BTW, Sabeen, do you really think making a hard riddle depends on your in-depth knowledge? c'mon... look at those of my hand (and i only read the lord of the rings, the silmarillion and classic hobbit not much for a tolkienologist)



Well I guess. If I ever get one of you people's riddles, I'll post one of the ones I've made up. (I have a pile of them waiting for you, although I still think they're too easy)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 23, 2004)

ely said:


> And I was so sure it has something to do with the Silmarils.
> 
> And can you tell me if the light is actual light or if it symbolizes something (for example hope)?


' Xactly! 
Eh, lady Hirila? A hint perhaps? 
See - we all have thought of the Silmarilli and we have all been wrong. 
What light is it about - real or symbollic? ... Age?....

***

BTW, why don't you drop by the "Happenings" -thread and tell us where you've been, what new experience you've gained, what adventured you've passed through ...  You have been away so long, dear Lady!


----------



## Finduilas (Aug 23, 2004)

Okay, is it something to do with Beren and Luthien...?  

That Love...it's summer after all.


----------



## Manveru (Aug 23, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> See - we all have thought of the Silmarilli and we have all been wrong.


i'm not obsessed with the silmarilli


----------



## Hirila (Aug 23, 2004)

Wow, what a new experience for me... you can't guess my riddle.. that's sooo cool. After all, the first ones I posted in this game were quite easy for you.

Okay... No Silmarils, no Beren and Luthien.
Sabeen is quite close. The light is real light, one that even the _wisest_ had not thought of.
Now, think of "him", who is "he" and what was the first important thing "he" did?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 23, 2004)

aule making his dwarves?


----------



## Finduilas (Aug 23, 2004)

Or the death of Gandalf and his rebirth...as Gandalf the White?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 23, 2004)

Iluvatar - breathing in the Flame Imperishable?


----------



## Hirila (Aug 23, 2004)

No, folks, no.
The only one close so far is Sabeen. Gandalf fighting with a Balrog... why?


----------



## Finduilas (Aug 23, 2004)

Why?....  
The dwarves, 'finding' the Balrog while looking for mithril?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 23, 2004)

Hahaha! This has become more tense than an Olympic race! 

Why did Gandlaf fight the Balrog?
Because he wanted to save the Fellowship, didn't he!


----------



## ely (Aug 23, 2004)

Something to do with Narya and Gandalf claiming himself to be "a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor"?

Or maybe Pippin pushing that whatever down into the well and by that waking up the Balrog?

Is it allowed to have two guesses per one post?


----------



## Hirila (Aug 24, 2004)

There the runners enter the stadium again, after a long marathon in the hot sun of ***** 
But.. what is this, can it be? Ely, is first, yes, there the sly thing is coming into the stadium, first, ely is first, and ... ely won, yes, a gold medal for ely... I can't believe it, left everyone far behind... isn't that amazing, ladies and gentlemen, ely won goooooooooold...!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 24, 2004)

*hurries with a laurel wreath* 
congrats, ely. awaiting your dare...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 24, 2004)

Hmmm... I hate doing this .. but as it is an *event*-game I think it was Sabeen who first guessed the *event*! Right?  

And ... just ... what is the *"Secret Fire, ... the flame of Anor"*?
But still , I guess that's only additional info. 

*The event has been guessed by Sabeen !!! *

Sorry, ely! 
I think, it's Sabeen who shall have the honour!


----------



## Hirila (Aug 24, 2004)

Ahem... No. Sorry Lhun, sorry Sabeen, but ely guessed right:
The event is Pippin throwing the stone into the well, thus "waking up" the orcs and rousing the balrog (and his fiery light) which finally led to Gandalfs fight. But the event is Pippin.

It's clearly ely's turn.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 24, 2004)

Aaaaaa ! Wait a minute!
ONLY the BOOKS are to be considered in making up the riddles, gyes! NOT the FILM!
Here's from the book how the "wakening of the orcs etc." took place:


> Gandalf raised his head and looked round. `They seem to have made a last stand by both doors,' he said; 'but there were not many left by that time. So ended the attempt to retake Moria! It was valiant but foolish. The time is not come yet. Now, I fear, we must say farewell to Balin son of Fundin. Here he must lie in the halls of his fathers. We will take this book, the Book of Mazarbul, and look at it more closely later. You had better keep it, Gimli, and take it back to Dáin, if you get a chance. It will interest him, though it will grieve him deeply. Come, let us go! The morning is passing.'
> 'Which way shall we go? ' asked Boromir.
> 'Back to the hall,' answered Gandalf. 'But our visit to this room has not been in vain. I now know where we are. This must be, as Gimli says, the Chamber of Mazarbul; and the hall must be the twenty-first of the North-end. Therefore we should leave by the eastern arch of the hall, and bear right and south, and go downwards. The Twenty-first Hall should be on the Seventh Level, that is six above the level of the Gates. Come now! Back to the hall! '
> 
> ...


So... where's that stone Pippin threw into the well?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 24, 2004)

that's _wraithish_ indeed 


Lhunithiliel said:


> So... where's that stone Pippin threw into the well?


over here, _wraith_:


> He went in cautiously, and the others filed behind. 'There!' he said, pointing with his staff to the middle of the floor. Before his feet they saw a large round hole like the mouth of a well. Broken and rusty chains lay at the adge and trailed down into the black pit. Fragments of stone lay near.
> 'One of you might have fallen in and still be wondering when you were going to strike the bottom,' said Aragorn to Merry. 'Let the guide go first while you have one.'
> 'This seems to have been a guardroom, made for the watching of the three passages,' said Gimli. 'That hole was plainly a well for the guards' use, covered with a stone lid. But the lid is broken, and we must all take care in the dark.'
> Pippin felt curiously attracted by the well. While the others were unrolling blankets and makin beds against the walls of the chamber, as far as possible from the hole in the floor, he crept to the edge and peered over. A chill air seemed to strike his face, rising from invisible depths. Moved by a sudden impulse *he groped for a loose stone, and let it drop*. He felt his heart beat many times before there was any sound. Then far below, as if the stone had fallen into deep water in some cavernous place, there came a plunk, very distant, but magnified and repeated in the hollow shaft.
> ...


let's call it even and i'll make another riddle, what say you?

'course, KIDDING!


----------



## Hirila (Aug 24, 2004)

Lhun, you almost had me doubting my own words.
But thanks Manveru, I knew I was right. Of course the scene is much more interesting in the film, but it IS in the book.
So, if our dear angel would please stand aside and make way for our gold medalist, we proudly present: ely!
:-D


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 24, 2004)

Nasty wraith!!! 

Sorry, Hirila!  

Even a nastier Angel!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 24, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Even a nastier Angel!!!!!!!!!


pleasure's all mine...

*stands aside*


----------



## ely (Aug 24, 2004)

> Sorry, ely!
> I think, it's Sabeen who shall have the honour!



Fine by me.  I do like guessing these riddles much more than making them, and Sabeen said that she has a lot of riddles ready and waiting.  

Besides, there's probably a "one guess per post"- rule somewhere, and I guess I broke it and got disqualified.  

So if nobody minds, it's Sabeen's turn!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 24, 2004)

Oh, isn't it a pure noble Olympic spirit our ely has demonstated !!! 

Ely, dear, you're not cross with me, are you! Please, don't be! 
I thought Hirila meant the Gandalf-Balrog episode rather than Pippin and the stone episode (***_turns her wraithishly angelic face to Manveru, all lit up in a wraithishly angelic smile_ ***   )

So, it is your turn, but it is also you who decide what to do with it. 

So ... go Sabeen... or ely ...
(***_only don't let that blue Angel have it!_ ***   )


----------



## Manveru (Aug 24, 2004)

will keep that in mind, _boss_ *writes it down*


----------



## ely (Aug 24, 2004)

Don't worry _wraith_, everyone makes mistakes once in a while.  And I really meant what I said before - I do like guessing riddles more than making them myself, even if they give me a head-ache like that one of Manveru.    

So, I'm looking forward to hear one of Sabeen's wonderful riddles!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 24, 2004)

i know the best medicine for your head-aches, ely... i'll stop causing them (aka writing too tough riddles, cos i cannot promise i won't be writing any in the future)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 25, 2004)

Bah! You just wait until *my* riddle appears! I'll show no mercy!! 
But ... ain't that so very wraithish?!  

C'mon! Where's that new riddle?


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 25, 2004)

Sorry guys. I was out of town and I did not expect to acctually get that one. Cool!   

Here it goes:

_
We attacked, but not to conquer
We sought victory, but not for ourselves
Our enemy came forth
Blinded by our swords and shields
Not by our battle, but by the courage of others
The land was ridded of evil on that day
And love endured_ 


Man that is so easy! *frown*


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 26, 2004)

Do you mean the battle on Pelennor Fields?
In fact, while I was reading I was thinking about the charge of the Rohirrims there. - one of my favourite moments! 
.. and 


> His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and the darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City.


----------



## Firawyn (Aug 27, 2004)

Sorry Luhn...not that one!


----------



## Manveru (Aug 27, 2004)

helm's deep? and total disaster for uruk-hai?

btw, whose love endured? aragorn's? are you hinting that he endured eowyn's "moves"?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 28, 2004)

Hmm....
The War of Wrath?
The Last Alliance?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 28, 2004)

hey, that's not fair = two guesses


----------



## ely (Aug 28, 2004)

The last battle in the War of the Ring at the Black Gate?


----------



## Manveru (Aug 29, 2004)

why do i get this funny feeling i've lost the race?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Aug 29, 2004)

No more just wars left?


----------



## Inderjit S (Aug 29, 2004)

Since when was there ever a just war. That is a paradox, if ever I saw one.  

And I think you have got it, ely.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 2, 2004)

isn't there a time for another riddle to be posted, guys? i'm more than certain that ely's guess hit the bull's eye (tho, nothing's certain in this life, as they say). can we... assume ely *is* right and give her (him? gosh, i always make the same mistake, sorry, ely, meant no harm) another chance to create sth?
and where's Sabeen?


----------



## ely (Sep 2, 2004)

We can give her some more time. I can't post a riddle today, anyway, maybe tomorrow or on Saturday. Now that the summer is over, everybody is more or less busy. 

Don't worry, Manveru, I don't mind if you don't know whether I'm a he or she. Though you got it right this time, I am a she.


----------



## Firawyn (Sep 5, 2004)

Sorry guys...my house flooded twice, I had a birthday party, school started, and my brother was sent to the Meadows - all in the last 10 days.

Yes Ely is right. And yes the love was Aragorn's (but with Arwen). *Deep breath* I didn't think the Riddle would last that long. 

Ely's up!!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 5, 2004)

nice to see you around again, Sabeen. gosh, quite a 10-day-action.

*anticipating another one*


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 6, 2004)

I was wondering ... 
What would you, people, say if we introduce a new rule:

Someone offers a riddle >> It shall have 4 days to be guessed >> if by the end of the fourth day it has not been >> on the 5-th day the author gives the answer and has the right to another one. 

BUT !! 

If a riddle is 'discussed' within these 4 days but the author does not show up to say who is right, >> by the end of the 4-th day the participants may discuss who they think has guessed the riddle right and >> on the 5-th day a new riddle can be posted by the one chosen by the participants.

AND !!!

If someone has the right to post a riddle >> he/she does not do this within 2 days from the date he/she 'entered into powers'  >> he/she loses the right to do so >> a new person has to be somehow  chosen/agreed/invited to post a riddle.

I think in this way we shall keep the dinamics here. 

What d'you say?
**********

And Sabeen, Ely, it's all right! I understand how it can be when Real Life gets you!  
Well, ely, your turn, my dear!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 6, 2004)

sounds good... i'll try to keep an eye on that... and if there's no participants, or when there is a tough situation as who should post, i may do so or simply invite someone. (power is so contagious)

so, ely... you've got two days. time's ticking, but *don't be hasty, we don't want anyone to get nervous around here* (i know how tough sometimes is to write a riddle).

so... angel watches over you...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 6, 2004)

Aaaah! So good! One job off my responsibility! I have a guardian angel to look after this section!!! 

Though .... What is this avatar?!!!!  
It looks more like one of my 'brethren'!
Definitely 'non-angellic'! But ... COOL!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 6, 2004)

what's this? hmm... getting out of skin  (that's the outcome of hanging out with _wraiths_)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 6, 2004)

Ooooh! My master would've been so proud of me!!!


----------



## ely (Sep 6, 2004)

I'm here!  

Nice avatar, Manveru. Colourful.  

Anyway, the riddle:

_The hardest steps ever taken
A broken heart left behind
A tough decision to make
Mind telling one thing, heart another
And promises bind you to both
The hardest steps ever taken
Away, away, one more, don't look back!
To do what had to be done
The hardest steps ever taken. _


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 6, 2004)

How about Aragorn taking the Path of the Dead, leaving Eowyn?  

Though such heart-breaking partings there have been a few.


----------



## ely (Sep 6, 2004)

Nope, it's not that...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 6, 2004)

Aragorn leaving Arwen in Rivendell when he was told that his first and topmost task was to prove himself a king to his people and only then he might think of the 'pleasures' of life.

(This man has this talant of leaving behind women with broken hearts!  )


----------



## Manveru (Sep 7, 2004)

(he didn't leave Arwen with a broken heart... like it came out later with Eowyn. c'mon, _wraith_, this way should Mel's heart feel broken as well?.. i had to leave and get back here, where i am now; have now things to do instead of warming my stretched body in the sun of BG beaches... things don't work this way, tho)


----------



## ely (Sep 7, 2004)

Sorry, but no, Lhun. 



> A broken heart left behind


Well, with this line I didn't really mean that someone with broken heart was left behind, I meant that the person who had to go left his/her broken heart behind with the one he/she loved. I guess it does sound more like the other way round, so sorry about that...


----------



## Manveru (Sep 8, 2004)

is beren involved in this matter? are those steps the ones he made leaving luthien... going away, but going to win her with his quest?


----------



## ely (Sep 8, 2004)

No, it does not involve Beren...


----------



## Finduilas (Sep 8, 2004)

Hmm...Turin?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 9, 2004)

As I've mentioned, Tolkien's world is full of sorrowful 'heart-breaking' partings of this sort.

The one ely has in mind may be just any!  

Ely, dear, a tiny hint?


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 9, 2004)

Could he be Sam? He left his love for Rossie and Shire behind and followed Frodo where we all konw.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 9, 2004)

guess Findi is right, but... i say: Hurin, Turin's father... it could be him, leaving for Nirnaeth Arnoediad

(time for guessing almost up...)


----------



## ely (Sep 9, 2004)

Astaldo is _really_ close to the right answer.


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 9, 2004)

Another possibility is to be Frodo leaving Shire or Sam leaving the Old Gaffer. I cannot thing of anything else for now.


----------



## ely (Sep 9, 2004)

Nope, but you're still _very very_ close.


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 9, 2004)

Maybe Bilbo or Frodo leaving the One Ring behind?


----------



## ely (Sep 9, 2004)

No. It involves two persons... (and of course it involves the Ring too, but everything in that book has something to do with the Ring, so..) you have named them both already, by the way. But you haven't got the event right yet.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 9, 2004)

great run, Astaldo 
seems like many hints were given, tho for me... still misty matter that is.


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 9, 2004)

It must be the situation in Shelob's Lair after Frodo was bitten by her majesty and Sam thought he was dead. Sam did not know if he had to go and destroy the ring of if he should stay and protect Frodo's body.


----------



## Firawyn (Sep 9, 2004)

Damn, I think that's it. My God that was a good answer. 

Btw, new person, are you a male or a female??


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 10, 2004)

I'm sure Astaldo got it!


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 10, 2004)

Tulkas is male, Astaldo is another name of Tulkas, so I'm male.


----------



## ely (Sep 10, 2004)

You are correct indeed, Astaldo. That was the heartbreaking scene I had in mind. Your turn to make up a riddle!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 12, 2004)

was wondering... have we all agreed to those new rules presented by Lhun or not?
if so... tonight's the night... i don't wanna be that boring, complaining, whatever-else guy, but are we to see a new riddle tonight, Astaldo? i know real life always comes in between and making out riddles isn't the easiest task, but... rules are rules (and i'm really anxious to see another one; this last one got me). sooooooo... was that boring? yea, i guess it was, but... someone has to act like that so that others could be funnier


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 12, 2004)

Well sorry guys but I was not home for the weekend and I had not access to internet. Anyway here is the riddle.

It comes and brings darkness.
But it is not alone
After it's visit the world will not be the same
for darkess and sadness will prevail
but the companion is treacherous
and does not care what has to be done to achieve his goals.

Well it's not very good but it was the only thing I could find now and once it's my first riddle please do not be very austere


----------



## Manveru (Sep 12, 2004)

whatever that last word means, know that any, i repeat ANY, lines can be used in here (it's your riddle; and if anybody has ath against, that's her/his problem).
don't think of me bad, as well, as to "rush" you. i just want this thread to go on (and on and on), but... we all understand all  (it happens)
phew... at last, can it (or rather they) be ringwraith you're looking for? (hehe, be sure she'll be here tomorrow morning)


----------



## ely (Sep 12, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Someone offers a riddle >> It shall have 4 days to be guessed >> if by the end of the fourth day it has not been >> on the 5-th day the author gives the answer and has the right to another one.


I don't know. I think people should guess it as long as they are willing, and only when no one wants to guess anymore, the author gives the right answer.


> BUT !!
> 
> If a riddle is 'discussed' within these 4 days but the author does not show up to say who is right, >> by the end of the 4-th day the participants may discuss who they think has guessed the riddle right and >> on the 5-th day a new riddle can be posted by the one chosen by the participants.


Yes, but I think it would be nice if we PM-d the author first about this thing. 


> AND !!!
> 
> If someone has the right to post a riddle >> he/she does not do this within 2 days from the date he/she 'entered into powers' >> he/she loses the right to do so >> a new person has to be somehow chosen/agreed/invited to post a riddle.


Maybe it should be a little more than 2 days. At least 3? And again, we should PM the person before taking his/her rights away. 


Nice riddle, Astaldo, and Manveru probably got it. But if not, then I guess Sauron.


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 12, 2004)

Well none of them is ringwraith sorry Manveru but both of them is on the bads' side.
I was not upset about what you said but I just wanted to clear up my place.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 12, 2004)

you've got a point(s), ely 

about riddle: i give up


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 12, 2004)

Well it is not either Sauron but you are close not too much but close. The last line is about traiting the partner in a deal


----------



## ely (Sep 12, 2004)

Melkor and Ungoliant?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 12, 2004)

EDIT: that was a quick move, ely


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 12, 2004)

Jeep that's it ely. It was easy


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 13, 2004)

Aaaaaaa, NO! 
Something has to be done here!  
Because, it always happens so that while I'm wandering the 'Gardens of Lorien' (_aka sleeping_  ) you people guess every single riddle that appears!!!  
NOT fair! 

*
*
* 


Kiddin'!!! .... Please! I'm just kiddin' !

Now, ely, about your suggestion about PM-ing people when late with an answer or otherwise - I do agree. 
Anyway, it's the Keeper of the Caves who shall decide. 

Now ... it's your turn Miss 'Quick Mind' !!!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 13, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Now, ely, about your suggestion about PM-ing people when late with an answer or otherwise - I do agree.
> Anyway, it's the Keeper of the Caves who shall decide.


yea, pin everything on him...


----------



## ely (Sep 14, 2004)

_The first, the second and the little one
Sat together by the fire in the evening
One offered others something
And at last they took it
After questioning the giver about it
He went back to his friends, to his destiny
To do what he had promised before
And face his fate up there._


----------



## Manveru (Sep 14, 2004)

a wild guess: gandalf, balin and bilbo... and the last scene of "the hobbit"?
balin then went to fight for getting back moria and... met his fate in the end...


----------



## ely (Sep 14, 2004)

Nope... Try again.


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 14, 2004)

That's a tough one ely.
Anyway it's a crazy tought but I do not lose anything so...
Does it has to do anything with the three Trolls, Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarves encountered in the beggining of the Hobbit?


----------



## Firawyn (Sep 14, 2004)

> The first, the second and the little one


Gandalf, Gimli, and Frodo



> Sat together by the fire in the evening


At the place in FOTR where Borimir was teaching the hobbits to fight...I cant remember the name of the place



> One offered others something
> And at last they took it


Gimli offered his idea about going through the mines of Moria



> After questioning the giver about it


Gandalf questioned it.



> He went back to his friends, to his destiny


Gimli joined the others - his destany was the companionship



> To do what he had promised
> And face his fate up there.


Gimli promised to serve and protect Frodo - and when the got to Moria, Gimli saw his and his peoples' fate.


That it a major wild guess!


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 15, 2004)

That was great Sabeen I am pretyy sure you've got it.


----------



## ely (Sep 15, 2004)

Sorry, but neither Astaldo nor Sabeen got it right. 



> The first, the second and the little one


 To whom do first and second usually refer? They are making a contrast between ...  




> > He went back to his friends, to his destiny
> 
> 
> Gimli joined the others - his destany was the companionship



But Gimli had already joined the Fellowship in Rivendell. Or do you mean he joined his friends in Moria? But his friends were all dead, and he stayed alive...


----------



## Manveru (Sep 15, 2004)

ely said:


> To whom do first and second usually refer? They are making a contrast between ...


good and evil... like in: _the good, the bad and the ugly..._? *laughs*

in my next "shot"... if i planned to take it...  i'd go for... *meeting of Turin, Beleg and Mim the petty dwarf*. Turin got sth from Beleg (he fetched them - outlaws - food, medicine and such stuff when he arrived at their "lair"; which was rather Mim's house - "house of ransom", right?).

how's that, ely?


----------



## ely (Sep 16, 2004)

What came first: good or evil?  

That was just a thought because I didn't refer to those two things... I referred more like to persons.  

And your guess is unfortunately wrong, Manveru.


----------



## Firawyn (Sep 16, 2004)

Like I said - wild guess. And what do you mean "did good or evil come first?" I guess it would be good, since evil did not exist when Eru created Middle Earth. 

Um...



> The first, the second and the little one


So are you saying that this first line means "Good, Evil, and Frodo??" I'm confused. Ely it should be illeagle how good (or should I say cruel) you are at this.


----------



## ely (Sep 17, 2004)

No, no, no, no, no... that has nothing to do with good or evil... my riddle, I mean. I just asked that question because... well... just because.  

But the first line refers to three persons. The first, the second and the little one. Now if you think who are called first and who are called second in the Books... which (groups of) persons... 

"And face his fate *up* there." You may think about this "*up* there" too... but it's probably still vague.



> Ely it should be illeagle how good (or should I say cruel) you are at this.


Why, thank you.  But I'm not that good. I always think my riddles will be guessed at first try, but I guess they seem a lot more easier when you know the answer.  

Now back to the riddle, and some clues: "One offered others something" - what is this something? Think about _important_ things being offered. And then think about the rest of the riddle.


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 17, 2004)

I do not have somethinc specific in my mind yet but has to do anything with Fellowship's pause before the go throuhg Khazad-dum?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 17, 2004)

ely said:


> But the first line refers to three persons. The first, the second and the little one. Now if you think who are called first and who are called second in the Books... which (groups of) persons...


the first in refer to *elves*, second to *men* and so on...?
(if it can help in anything...)


----------



## ely (Sep 17, 2004)

> I do not have somethinc specific in my mind yet but has to do anything with Fellowship's pause before the go throuhg Khazad-dum?


No.



> the first in refer to elves, second to men and so on...?


And so on? But the elves & men is correct, though here we only have one elf and one man. And one little one.  

If you (any of you) tell me how you interpret those lines, I can give you a little push into the right direction.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 18, 2004)

> The first, the second and the little one
> Sat together by the fire in the evening
> One offered others something
> And at last they took it
> ...


Does it have to anything with the Ring and the 'discussion' in Rivendel who is to take it to detruction and how to do it? When Frodo accepts to "do the job" and asks for advice of how to do it?


----------



## ely (Sep 18, 2004)

No. The giver went back to his friends without the thing because he had given the thing away to the first and the second (to an elf and a man). He went back to his friends.

Clue: It has very little to do with the Ring, the Ring was there and helped but the event the riddle describes does not concern the Ring.


----------



## Helcaraxë (Sep 18, 2004)

I'm back! It was a little more than two months, but the week between NH and the Galapagos was hectic, then I went to Maine, then I went to New York. But anyway, you still haven't guessed the tower!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 18, 2004)

nice "comeback", Helc yea, still nothing... since the new rules have been proposed some time ago... you can provide the name and consider yourself "unbeaten" (that's a great thing; all of my riddles - even hardest - were cracked in full; tho, not by _wraith_ *angelic laugh*)

good to see you around... _is it cold, or is it just me?_ (as wesley snipes said in "demolition man" )

any guess about the newest riddle?


----------



## Firawyn (Sep 19, 2004)

Is it the scene..I think I read it in the UT... that Isilur gave his sword to one of his men right before he get killed and the ring lost in the river for Gollum to find it?

You know what scene I mean? I'll have to go re-read that section again.


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 20, 2004)

Actually he gave the Shards of Narsil to Ohtar


----------



## ely (Sep 21, 2004)

I haven't read the UT nor the HoME. So the riddle can't be about any scenes from there. And it's also not from the Silmarillion, to narrow your searches.  

And don't forget those three persons: an elf, a man and a little one, who are the only (important) ones in that scene.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 21, 2004)

hmm... maybe i can be successful and... push this a little bit further 

aragorn, legolas and gimli chasing the uruk-hai??????


----------



## ely (Sep 21, 2004)

And how is that connected to sitting by the fire and one giving others something? 

And the little one does not refer to Gimli or any of his kind.  

It's so easy! Maybe you just think that my riddles are always so hard, and leave all the easy options out...  

I've narrowed your searches to two books: The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Just sit down and think through the key events of those books... and you'll find the answer that fits perfectly with all the lines!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 21, 2004)

ely said:


> And how is that connected to sitting by the fire and one giving others something?


well... just guessing... like now: Beorn, Gandalf and Bilbo...? tho, i can't think of whether there was a fire or not, whether they got sth or not...
i'm thinking as well of... Frodo meeting that elf, amm, Gildor (?). they sit by the fire, but Frodo got nth more than a few "riddling" pieces of advice... and there wasn't any "second"... agh! maybe it's easy, but isn't this a rule that "it's the darkest under a streetlamp"?


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 21, 2004)

DEar Manveru it could not possibly be Beorn because he is not an Elf and ely said it is in Elf. It must be something with an Elf , a Man and a Hobbit but I cannot imagine what. But I believe it is not from Hobbit too because I do not remember any scene like this in it.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 22, 2004)

got me on this one...


----------



## ely (Sep 22, 2004)

Astaldo said:


> DEar Manveru it could not possibly be Beorn because he is not an Elf and ely said it is in Elf. It must be something with an Elf , a Man and a Hobbit but I cannot imagine what. *But I believe it is not from Hobbit too because I do not remember any scene like this in it.*


That's what you think!


----------



## Manveru (Sep 22, 2004)

is that a hint, ely?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 22, 2004)

sorry for the double post, but... i guess i got it 

king of Mirkwood (elf), Bard (man) and Bilbo Baggins (little one) sit by the fire when Bilbo, being a night thief, gives them the Archenstone (or whatever it is called in english)...

how's that?


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 22, 2004)

Great move Manv. This must be the right answer.


----------



## ely (Sep 23, 2004)

Manveru said:


> sorry for the double post, but... i guess i got it
> 
> king of Mirkwood (elf), Bard (man) and Bilbo Baggins (little one) sit by the fire when Bilbo, being a night thief, gives them the Archenstone (or whatever it is called in english)...
> 
> how's that?



That's correct. And then Bilbo goes back to his dwarven friends as he had promised to wake Bombur up in midnight, and face Thorin when he finds out who gave his precious Arkenstone to his enemies. 

Ooh, it took a while, but better late than never, I suppose...

Your turn, Manveru!


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 23, 2004)

BTW ely the riddle was great.


----------



## ely (Sep 23, 2004)

Thank you!


----------



## Helcaraxë (Sep 23, 2004)

Manveru said:


> nice "comeback", Helc yea, still nothing... since the new rules have been proposed some time ago... you can provide the name and consider yourself "unbeaten" (that's a great thing; all of my riddles - even hardest - were cracked in full; tho, not by _wraith_ *angelic laugh*)
> 
> good to see you around... _is it cold, or is it just me?_ (as wesley snipes said in "demolition man" )
> 
> any guess about the newest riddle?



Manv, I haven't the slightest idea what you just said.


----------



## ely (Sep 24, 2004)

Here are the rules Lhun posted a few pages ago:



> Someone offers a riddle >> It shall have 4 days to be guessed >> if by the end of the fourth day it has not been >> on the 5-th day the author gives the answer and has the right to another one.
> 
> BUT !!
> 
> ...



We haven't decided yet exactly how many days must pass on each occasion, but it will definately be no more than 5. The first rule... well, I strongly object to it, but the others are OK. Except that it would be nice to PM that person before taking away his/her rights to the riddle. 

Anyway, you shouldn't torture us with your tower so long, the rest of the riddle was guessed right, wasn't it? Show your kindness, and tell us which tower you meant...


----------



## Manveru (Sep 24, 2004)

Helcaraxë said:


> Manv, I haven't the slightest idea what you just said.


sometimes i find myself wondering, too  anyway, rules are to be broken, right?

_when autumn's a party
one transparent smartie
makes "clink-clank" at the doors
deep down the dark corridors

jinxed number of wood
got stuffed - not with food
in "company" of butter, wine and all
disappears roughly in a dark hole..._

hope it's easy enough, cos... i don't have too much time for "explanations" (sorry)


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 24, 2004)

Is it Bilbo after the party when he wore the One Ring?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 24, 2004)

precise it a little (cos i think you're close )


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 24, 2004)

Manveru said:


> _when autumn's a party_


This must be Bilbo's party before he leaves the Shire



Manveru said:


> _one transparent smartie_


Bilbo...



Manveru said:


> _makes "clink-clank" at the doors_
> _deep down the dark corridors_


Goes to Bag End for the final preparations





Manveru said:


> _jinxed number of wood_
> _got stuffed - not with food_


The way to Rivendell...



Manveru said:


> _in "company" of butter, wine and all_


The arrival and party at Rivendell...



Manveru said:


> _disappears roughly in a dark hole..._


His room at Rivendell?

Anyway I do not think that this is it.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 24, 2004)

yea, you're only right with the last one (that it's not it) and with the person: it is Bilbo!
but... the corridors i meant are much deeper than those at Bag End 
also... that line with _butter..._ can be misleading (i didn't think of "material" stuff out there; don't think that hint will help much)

okay... thought it would be easy... *ponder deeper about that jinxed number*


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 25, 2004)

How about Bilbo in the dungeons of the Elves of Mirkwood when he is rescuing the Dwarves and then in those barrels through a hole - into the river- their escape it was. 

Boy! I'm so excited! I think I'm right about the answer to Manv's riddle and if this is so... Oh! IF this is so!!!!...... That will be the first time I guess your riddle, Angel !


----------



## Manveru (Sep 25, 2004)

well... what can i say, Lhun... congrats! 
did great, deserved reward. go ahead, you're next...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 25, 2004)

YEY!!! 
Finallllllllllly!!!!

I will think of sth. ... hmmm...


----------



## Helcaraxë (Sep 25, 2004)

ely said:


> Anyway, you shouldn't torture us with your tower so long, the rest of the riddle was guessed right, wasn't it? Show your kindness, and tell us which tower you meant...



Never! Nowhere in the rules does it say that they are retroactive; thus, my riddle, given its length, must be an exception to the rule.  However, to mollify Lhun and Man, I'll either start a new thread, or people can PM me with guesses, but be aware that my PM box has 137 out of 140 allowed messages in it.


----------



## Manveru (Sep 25, 2004)

so... there's space for at least 3 guesses, just thinking: how many towers are there to be yet unveiled? a thousand..?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 28, 2004)

Helc, sorry didn't have the time to welcome you back!
So..

WELCOME back!!! 

Now... would you post again your SUPER-riddle  and a summery of the right answers so far and let's try to solve your riddle first and then I shall post mine.
OK?


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 28, 2004)

Who's turn is?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 28, 2004)

Lhun's, but if she wishes... (watch them not to try any tricks)


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Sep 29, 2004)

But my Lord of the Glittering Caves, are we not to first solve Helc's riddle?


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 29, 2004)

Where is Helc's riddle? can you post a link or something?


----------



## Manveru (Sep 29, 2004)

here you go:


Helcaraxe said:


> With a forest of gold in a land of stone,
> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.
> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land
> As Darkness put forth its hand;
> ...


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 29, 2004)

Is it Minas Ithil?

Gondor=land of stone


----------



## Manveru (Sep 29, 2004)

oh boy, my Greek friend... i guess you'll have to read from here not to come across the same and already mentioned answers (we tried all, believe me; this tower is impossible to crack)

have a nice time reading


----------



## Astaldo (Sep 29, 2004)

Thank you my friend. I am leaving now and go to study


----------



## ely (Sep 30, 2004)

Is it a real tower or a metaphorical one?



> A tower gleamed in a *traitor's* land



The traitor was Sauron, right?


I don't have the faintest idea...  so I'll just guess something... Dol Guldur? I have never heard that it gleamed but at least it had something to do with Sauron.


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 2, 2004)

I read all the post but there's a thick fog from me to the answer.  

What about a small hint?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 3, 2004)

While Helc's riddle stays open, here's mine  

_I saw him … and peace I lost
“He has to be mine!” – I thought 
at any rate, at any cost.

This world is too small a place
It’s either him or me
I am now haunted by his face
And it’s him all that I see.

For foe of old he’s been to me
The pain I still can feel
And ages long have not erased it – No!
Now … it’s either him or me!_


----------



## Helcaraxë (Oct 4, 2004)

ely said:


> Is it a real tower or a metaphorical one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry for being so late to reply; I've been busy with school, ect. 

The tower is real, and the traitor's not Sauron. There are your hints, Astaldo.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 5, 2004)

and not a single guess on my riddle? ...... Not even the "wildes" one? ....


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 5, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> _I saw him … and peace I lost_
> _“He has to be mine!” – I thought _
> _at any rate, at any cost._


If you had writen it instead of he I would go for a silmaril.




Lhunithiliel said:


> _This world is too small a place_
> _It’s either him or me_
> _I am now haunted by his face_
> _And it’s him all that I see._
> ...


For these two verse I have no idea


----------



## Manveru (Oct 5, 2004)

*greetings...*

i see you're playing nice, so... won't interrupt you 
(sorry, Lhun, no time, no guess, but i'm sure others will "wake up")
have fun


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 6, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> While Helc's riddle stays open, here's mine
> 
> _I saw him … and peace I lost
> “He has to be mine!” – I thought
> ...



Is it Gollum speaking about Bilbo?
They became foes long before the Lord of the Rings...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 7, 2004)

Sorry, Sabeen! These two are not the "heroes" of my riddle . 

Another guess?


----------



## ely (Oct 7, 2004)

That's a very nice riddle, Lhun, but I don't have a clue who it might be about. So I'll just guess... Does it have anything to do with Melkor and/or Feanor?

~*~*~*~*~

Now with Helc's riddle. I collected some clues from back there, maybe some people will find them helpful:



> And what did Ar-Pharazon do with Sauron when Sauron came? I'll give you a hint: the tower exists because of this event. What did he do with Sauron?!!?!



This post is quite useful...

Now, if I understand it right (please correct me, if not), the tower exist because Sauron was captured by Ar-Pharazon and was raised about the time Sauron tried to rule ME.

Yet, this tower was not in Sauron's land... another traitor... Saruman comes to mind, but you said it wasn't Orthanc either. And how is the building of this tower connected with Sauron being captured by Ar-Pharazon? I just don't get it. One thing would be that Sauron had built himself another powerful tower in which he could be safe and rule others, but then it would be in his land, wouldn't it? Another idea is that the tower was built in defence of Sauron, but then why is it connected with Sauron being captured?  Can you say whether this (tower being built and Sauron trying to rule ME) happened in the second or in the third age (or is this too big a hint)?

And if you say it's not Orthanc, then I guess it can't be Isengard either, heh? Though it was built shortly after Sauron returning to Mordor and then Saruman wasn't a traitor yet. I'll keep thinking.


----------



## Helcaraxë (Oct 7, 2004)

> Now, if I understand it right (please correct me, if not), the tower exist because Sauron was captured by Ar-Pharazon and was raised about the time Sauron tried to rule ME.



That depends on which of Sauron's many attempts to rule Middle-Earth you are referring to. A big hint: it was raised sometime after his capture, but it's not clear from the texts exactly when. 



> Yet, this tower was not in Sauron's land... another traitor... Saruman comes to mind, but you said it wasn't Orthanc either. And how is the building of this tower connected with Sauron being captured by Ar-Pharazon? I just don't get it. One thing would be that Sauron had built himself another powerful tower in which he could be safe and rule others, but then it would be in his land, wouldn't it? Another idea is that the tower was built in defence of Sauron, but then why is it connected with Sauron being captured?  Can you say whether this (tower being built and Sauron trying to rule ME) happened in the second or in the third age (or is this too big a hint)?



It was not built by Sauron, or in defence against him. Again, it's not clear exactly when it was built, but it was probably early in the Third Age or late in the Second.


----------



## ely (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm still at loss...

But...

Ar-Pharazon captured Sauron -> he took Sauron to Numenor -> Sauron played his old tricks -> Numenor went down -> Elendil came to ME.

And started to build things. So could this tower be the Tower of Amon Sul?


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 8, 2004)

Very good way of thinking ely.  But unfortunately I still don't get it. Nor in Lhun's.


----------



## Helcaraxë (Oct 8, 2004)

Nope, sorry!


----------



## ely (Oct 8, 2004)

But is it somehow connected with Elendil?


----------



## Helcaraxë (Oct 10, 2004)

No, not really.


----------



## ely (Oct 10, 2004)

How about a little clue, Helc, please?


----------



## Helcaraxë (Oct 11, 2004)

It's not mentioned in LotR because at that time it was no longer in existence. Remember that it gleams. The traitor's land is not Mordor, but perhaps was allied with Mordor. The traitors themselves do appear in LotR. 

Try to decipher something from that.


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 14, 2004)

Does anybody have any clue for both riddles? Lhun anything that could help us?


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 14, 2004)

Are you refering to the Raiders or the people of Dundland?? Allied with Mordor during the War of the Ring yet not really mentioned all that much... *smiles weakly*


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 15, 2004)

Astaldo, as for my riddle - the event happened at the "beginning of the end" of the Third Age - the event is told about in the LotR and it involves two major characters of the story.

Helped?  

Sabeen ... your guess - what riddle was it about?


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 15, 2004)

Thanks Lhun. I will try to find it.


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 15, 2004)

Helcaraxë said:


> It's not mentioned in LotR because at that time it was no longer in existence. Remember that it gleams. The traitor's land is not Mordor, but perhaps was allied with Mordor. The traitors themselves do appear in LotR.
> 
> Try to decipher something from that.



In reference to Helc's riddle..I'm pushing for clues.



Sabeen said:


> Are you refering to the Raiders or the people of Dundland?? Allied with Mordor during the War of the Ring yet not really mentioned all that much... *smiles weakly*


----------



## ely (Oct 15, 2004)

> The traitor's land is not Mordor, but perhaps was allied with Mordor. The traitors themselves do appear in LotR.


I have three guesses about those traitors:
1) The Dead
2) Haradrim
3) Dunlendings (as Sabeen said)

and maybe also Black Numenoreans...

Still no idea about the tower.


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 15, 2004)

Now if Dundlendings were allied with Mordor then wouldn't that be the tower? Barad-ur I mean. Or even Orthanc...


----------



## ely (Oct 15, 2004)

No, because Helc said it was not mentioned in LotR for it didn't exist at that time anymore. But the tower was built early in the Third Age or late in the Second.


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 15, 2004)

> With a forest of gold in a land of stone,


Lothlorion?


> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.


The war of the Ring


> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land


Mordor


> As Darkness put forth its hand;


Souron


> The star shone no more


The vial of Galadrial


> When the shadow came from the eastern shore.


This last line I dont get..  


I really cant see it any other way Helc...


----------



## ely (Oct 15, 2004)

Sabeen, the riddle itself was guessed in THIS post, but we still have to figure out what is the tower, and who is the traitor.


----------



## Starbrow (Oct 15, 2004)

Lhun,

I don't suppose your riddle has to do with Smeagol/Gollum murdering Deagol and taking the ring, does it?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 16, 2004)

Nope... Sorry! 

Another pair in a 'severe' clash this is!
A hint - both - not only major characters, but also powerful minds!


----------



## ely (Oct 16, 2004)

Hmm... Sauron and Gandalf?


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 18, 2004)

ely said:


> Sabeen, the riddle itself was guessed in THIS post, but we still have to figure out what is the tower, and who is the traitor.



Oh...  I c. Still don't know what it is though..


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 23, 2004)

Hmmm... 
What shall we do?
TWO unsloved riddles stuck here and the game, practically 'freezed'!


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 23, 2004)

Maybe you should tell us the answers and you or Helc. post a new one. For me I'm sure I cannot find the answers.


----------



## ely (Oct 23, 2004)

So it's not Gandalf and Sauron to your riddle, Lhun? How about Gandalf and Saruman then?

And I have made four guesses about those traitors in Helc's riddle, but he hasn't answered yet.  



> 1) The Dead
> 2) Haradrim
> 3) Dunlendings (as Sabeen said)
> and maybe also Black Numenoreans...



And, no, don't tell the answer yet, just give us some more clues, both of you!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 23, 2004)

All right! 
A hint to mine: Sauron is one of the characters.

Who is the other one and what is the event?


----------



## ely (Oct 23, 2004)

Aragorn? Using the Palantir?


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 23, 2004)

Bravo, ely!!!!!!

I pronounce you THE RIDDLE-BREAKER!!


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 23, 2004)

Congratulations ely once more.  Now it's time for Helc's riddle


----------



## ely (Oct 23, 2004)

Yay!  

And now we can concentrate on Helc's riddle with all the mind power we have.  

And Helc should give us yet another clue...  For example, how come this tower exists because of Sauron being captured by Ar-Pharazon, or in which book is it mentioned.


----------



## soltan gris (Oct 25, 2004)

I have a guess about the famous tower that 'gleams'
Minas Ithil > Morghul ?
and the traitors being the Nazguls? 
But I don't see how this is related to Ar-Farazon.


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 25, 2004)

Does it have anything to do with Melkor??


----------



## Helcaraxë (Oct 27, 2004)

> And I have made four guesses about those traitors in Helc's riddle, but he hasn't answered yet.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...



No sarcasm is necessary. I've been busy with schoolwork.

One of those guesses is semi-correct.


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 28, 2004)

Are you refering to the dead? I mean if you were looking for Nazgul that would be semi right...  Comon Helc!!


----------



## soltan gris (Oct 28, 2004)

hey Helc, I didn't understand if my guess is right, wrong , or something in between?? 



> I have a guess about the famous tower that 'gleams'
> Minas Ithil > Morghul ?
> and the traitors being the Nazguls?
> But I don't see how this is related to Ar-Farazon.


----------



## ely (Oct 28, 2004)

> No sarcasm is necessary. I've been busy with schoolwork.



Sorry. I just love these smilies.  Can't guess right now. Too busy myself.


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 29, 2004)

I officially  GIVE UP!!! 

Helc!!


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 30, 2004)

He, he  
Don't Sabeen! Please, don't! 

Hey, Helc ... by chance ... (although I doubt it strongly..... that 'gleaming tower' ... could it be the Stone of Erech?


----------



## ely (Oct 30, 2004)

I won't give up. Yet.

I'll guess something, too. Though I think it's wrong. 

Durthang?

And was Sabeen's guess right? Does it involve the Nazgul?


----------



## Firawyn (Oct 30, 2004)

Fine. I un-give up.

Where is Helc anyway?
Can someone post another riddle to keep us busy?

Another guess...Does it have anything to do with Numunor? I have a map of Numunor on my wall that hass a gleaming tower in the border so that is why I guess that. I have so much yet to learn of Tolkien's Middle Earth it's not funny.


----------



## Helcaraxë (Oct 31, 2004)

Not the Nazgul, not the stone of Erech, not Durthang. The tower is indirectly related to Numenor, but you won't find it on you map, Sabeen.


----------



## ely (Oct 31, 2004)

The connection between this tower and Numenor, is it linked through those who escaped the Fall of Numenor? 

Also, is this tower mentioned in _The Silmarillion_?


----------



## Astaldo (Oct 31, 2004)

The tower of Amon Sul. It's just a guess without thinking.


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 1, 2004)

ok, there is another one which I thing is farely easy:

_From darkness and fire they fled_
_but darkness and fire they met;_

_Light and darkness then fought_
_to bring men's new hope;_

_By light the darkness was overthrown_
_to repay the High King's darkened throne;_

_and finally to the Sea they came_
_to find hope for elves and men._


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 3, 2004)

> _From darkness and fire they fled_


Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin from the Nazgul coming to the Shire


> _but darkness and fire they met;_


THe Nazgul


> _Light and darkness then fought_


Life and Death Frod faced after the stabbing at Weathertop.


> _to bring men's new hope;_


 Distroy the ring, save Middle Earth.


> _By light the darkness was overthrown_


By Frodo the ring was distroyed.


> _to repay the High King's darkened throne;_


 Now that could be either Sauron's throne or Denethor's throne.


> _and finally to the Sea they came_


In the end Frodo and Gandalf and all the other sailed over the sea.


> _to find hope for elves and men._


the end.

Am I right??


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 3, 2004)

uh-uh

look farther back in history)))))))))))

it's a good logic though, except for the throne suggestion - neither Sauron nor Denethor have been ever named 'High King'


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 3, 2004)

Damn. Okay fine. I'll keep looking.

And I re-give up on Helc's.


----------



## Helcaraxë (Nov 3, 2004)

ely said:


> The connection between this tower and Numenor, is it linked through those who escaped the Fall of Numenor?
> 
> Also, is this tower mentioned in _The Silmarillion_?



I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking if the Numenoreans built it after the Fall of Numenor?

I don't recall it being mentioned in the Silmarillion, but it's possible.


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 3, 2004)

What about Amon Sul? You didn't answer.


----------



## Starbrow (Nov 3, 2004)

This is for soltan gris's riddle.

I'm thinking it might be Elendil and his sons fleeing the fall of Numenor and then having to fight Sauron in a war. But then I don't know how returning to the sea and finding hope for elves and men applies.

Am I close?


----------



## Valandil (Nov 3, 2004)

Can I just jump right in and play?



> Originally Posted by *Helcaraxe*
> With a forest of gold in a land of stone,
> War brought they to doom's Dark Throne.
> A tower gleamed in a traitor's land
> ...



Sounds like the golden sphere raised on a pillar at Umbar by Ar-Pharazon, to commemorate his victory over Sauron. It shone out at sea like a star, IIRC.

So the Numenoreans set it up there, ~ 3260 SA when they went forth to challenge Sauron's power.

When Castamir the Usurper (the traitor, I take it) fled Gondor in ~ 1447 (?) TA, he and his followers set up their base of power at Umbar - and Appendix A tells us that this pillar was still there at the time... it lasted until Sauron later came unto his own again (date not specified)... and he destroyed it since it was a symbol of his humiliation.


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 3, 2004)

> This is for soltan gris's riddle.
> 
> I'm thinking it might be Elendil and his sons fleeing the fall of Numenor and then having to fight Sauron in a war. But then I don't know how returning to the sea and finding hope for elves and men applies.
> 
> Am I close?


NO, it's not related with Numenor or its decendants.


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 4, 2004)

Valandil said:


> Can I just jump right in and play?
> Sounds like the golden sphere raised on a pillar at Umbar by Ar-Pharazon, to commemorate his victory over Sauron. It shone out at sea like a star, IIRC.
> 
> So the Numenoreans set it up there, ~ 3260 SA when they went forth to challenge Sauron's power.
> ...



Oh please please please please be right!!!!


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 4, 2004)

_



Can I just jump right in and play?
Sounds like the golden sphere raised on a pillar at Umbar by Ar-Pharazon, to commemorate his victory over Sauron. It shone out at sea like a star, IIRC.

So the Numenoreans set it up there, ~ 3260 SA when they went forth to challenge Sauron's power.

When Castamir the Usurper (the traitor, I take it) fled Gondor in ~ 1447 (?) TA, he and his followers set up their base of power at Umbar - and Appendix A tells us that this pillar was still there at the time... it lasted until Sauron later came unto his own again (date not specified)... and he destroyed it since it was a symbol of his humiliation. 

Click to expand...

 _
it really sounds right!
the gleaming tower in the traitor's land))))))))))
but we'll see..........HELC???????????


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 4, 2004)

Let's hope Valandil is right.


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 4, 2004)

Where's Helc!!


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 5, 2004)

I hope she will come soon.


----------



## ely (Nov 5, 2004)

About the riddle of *soltan gris*: Idril & Tuor escaping the Sack of Gondolin, and later Eärendil's voyage to Aman?


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 5, 2004)

yyyyyyyyyeeeeeessssssssssssssssssss)))))

but can you give me some details?
I just want to see that every part of the riddle is clear for everyone))))
( remember what happened with Helc's riddle - almost all of it was guessed except for the tower which remains a mistery


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 6, 2004)

Great, now we have an ely and a helc riddle on our hands! *sigh* Okay ely, bring it on..


----------



## ely (Nov 6, 2004)

> Great, now we have an ely and a helc riddle on our hands! *sigh* Okay ely, bring it on..


Not yet because soltan gris wants the details about his riddle, and I don't remember that story in detail - so if anyone else wants to tell what each line of soltan gris's riddle means exactly then I'll be glad to let them post the next riddle.

Also, I think that Helc's tower was guessed right by Valandil.


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 6, 2004)

i'm waiting


----------



## Manveru (Nov 7, 2004)

well... haven't been here for ages and maybe lost my touch, but...


soltan gris said:


> _From darkness and fire they fled_
> _but darkness and fire they met;_


as has been said: tuor and idril and the rest of fugitives from gondolim after it was sacked and destroyed (by dark forces; esp. with fire...). they fled down the sirion's flow (not sure) and established another "place", which was unfortunately ambushed by the, ahem, sons of feanor...


> _Light and darkness then fought_
> _to bring men's new hope;_


last battle... of wrath? i'm not sure it should be in this place, those lines, but...


> _By light the darkness was overthrown_
> _to repay the High King's darkened throne;_


the above battle's end... morgoth overthrown... light victorious...


> _and finally to the Sea they came_
> _to find hope for elves and men._


as i said... that battle is a little too early in here  cos now they "finally" came to the sea... earendil's quest to save the day...

gee, it came harder to me than i thought... too long a break...
anyway, if this "satisfies" you, soltan, we can wait for another riddle (which should be done by ely - i don't think details are so important in here)

'twas nice to try my strength again in here... good luck to all (in making and guessing riddles) and hopefully: see ya


----------



## Valandil (Nov 7, 2004)

ely said:


> Also, I think that Helc's tower was guessed right by Valandil.



If I AM right, it might be partly because it's similar to one I once offered up elsewhere.  Here's my version:



> I stood tall and white,
> Though I was not a tower.
> Crystal peak shining bright,
> Sign of golden king's power.



And... since I perhaps took one off the table, let me add one. Also from 'elsewhere':  

_Father and grandpa both died in the war,
King at a young age, I settled the score!
With the aid of an Elf-Lord, I drove back the host,
Then reigned many years, from my northerly post._


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 7, 2004)

I would say something about Dwarves but I am not so sure. I will search for a while. Maybe Dain, of Thrain.


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 7, 2004)

> well... haven't been here for ages and maybe lost my touch, but...
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soltan gris*
> _From darkness and fire they fled
> ...


 The first half of this guess is right , Manveru, but not the second and all the following guesses. 
The fight is the key to the rest of the riddle - if you find out what precisely this fight was, you can easily guess the other thinks

And can I try to answer right away Valandil's riddle?



> _Father and grandpa both died in the war,
> King at a young age, I settled the score!
> With the aid of an Elf-Lord, I drove back the host,
> Then reigned many years, from my northerly post.
> _


_This revers to Hurin, who drives back the host of Morgoth seven years after Dagor Bragollach. In the same battle dies his father Galdor, as did his grandfather Hador during the Bragollach. Hurin was about 18 years old.
The Elven lord is Fingon, who battles the rest of Morgoth's army in Hithlum in the same time.

Am I right?

_


----------



## Valandil (Nov 8, 2004)

Here's another, if anyone likes limmericks:

_Like spears in a row,
Not only for show,
My bane strung them along,
But my revenge was still strong,
For this gift was what brought him down low!_

I hope these offerings of mine are within the rules of the thread... I expect I ought to go back and read them.


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 8, 2004)

Val, I don't have any idea about your new riddle; how about my attempt to answer the previous one? You didn't say if I'm right or wrong


----------



## Valandil (Nov 8, 2004)

soltan gris said:


> Val, I don't have any idea about your new riddle; how about my attempt to answer the previous one? You didn't say if I'm right or wrong



Sorry - missed that.  Not Hurin... though I admit much applies. Don't know if he 'reigned many years' though...


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 10, 2004)

> Father and grandpa both died in the war,
> King at a young age, I settled the score!
> With the aid of an Elf-Lord, I drove back the host,
> Then reigned many years, from my northerly post.



Was it Isildur?


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 11, 2004)

Did Isildur reigned many years?


----------



## Valandil (Nov 11, 2004)

Not Isildur... (shall I give any hints?)

I will say this guy is a good deal more obscure.


----------



## ely (Nov 12, 2004)

Araphor, son of Arveleg, the ninth King of Arthedain?


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 12, 2004)

If ely's not right (she probobly is  ) then I'm ready for hints...


----------



## Valandil (Nov 12, 2004)

ely said:


> Araphor, son of Arveleg, the ninth King of Arthedain?



Araphor IS correct!! 

And note how _'Araphor'_ and _'Fornost'_ (from where he reigned) both also rhyme with two of the stanzas!!


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 14, 2004)

_figures_


----------



## ely (Nov 15, 2004)

Sorry I kept you waiting, here it is:

_We killed their leader and they wanted revenge
They came as a great wave of destruction and death
Last stronghold of ours, in the black chasm
They came to its gates and we fough
Our number was greater and position better
But they were young and brave and fough well
Shields shattered and blades were broken
But they had help, and our leader was killed
By a young boy, and we were destroyed._


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 15, 2004)

This is the battle at Azanulbizar (not shure of the spelling )_



We killed their leader and they wanted revenge

Click to expand...

 _

The leader is Tror, killed by the orc chief Azog.



> _Last stronghold of ours, in the black chasm
> 
> _


_Moria, during the time it was an orc stronghold (I think it's around the year 2400 of the Third Age) 




Our number was greater and position better
But they were young and brave and fough well



Click to expand...

The orcs were really well situated in the ancient dwarven stronghold  




But they had help, and our leader was killed
By a young boy, and we were destroyed.


Click to expand...

Azog was killed by Train (if I'm not mistaken, or by Dain if I AM mistaken)

Right, Ely?

(by the way congrats about your idea to describe this from the orc's point of view )_


----------



## ely (Nov 15, 2004)

Yes, you're right.  



> Azog was killed by Train (if I'm not mistaken, or by Dain if I AM mistaken)


Hehe. It was actually Dain.  But it was still an excellent guess.  Well done! 



> (by the way congrats about your idea to describe this from the orc's point of view )


Thanks!  I thought it would be interesting. 

Another thing, I was wondering if "black chasm" gave it away too much for I wasn't sure if I should include it or not. 

Anyway, congratulations and I'll look forward to your next riddle.


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 15, 2004)

Great riddle ely. It's a pity that I didn't see it first.


----------



## ely (Nov 16, 2004)

See! I _can_ make guessable riddles!


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 17, 2004)

ok, it's my turn)))
But while I think of another good riddle why don't you guys try to finish the job with my previous one? 



> _From darkness and fire they fled
> but darkness and fire they met;
> 
> Light and darkness then fought
> ...


_Ely, you guessed right the general event, but can you give me the details (I know I'm picky but so was Helc, right?  )?

COME ON LHUN, where are you hiding 
_


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 17, 2004)

Wow! There's a shocker! Someone guessed ely's riddle rather quickly! Impresive!!!


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 18, 2004)

TREMBLE , O MORTALS, BEFORE THE POWER OF MY KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!!!
FEAR MY WRATH AND ITS INCARNATION - MY UNGUESSABLE RIDDLES   
THERE IS ONE:

what is the strangest way to escape a dungeon?


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 18, 2004)

TREMBLE , O MORTALS, BEFORE THE POWER OF MY KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!!!
FEAR MY WRATH AND ITS INCARNATION - MY UNGUESSABLE RIDDLES   
THERE IS ONE:

what is the strangest way to escape a dungeon?


----------



## Valandil (Nov 19, 2004)

soltan gris said:


> what is the strangest way to escape a dungeon?



Diguised as nothing? With a barrel for an overcoat??


----------



## soltan gris (Nov 19, 2004)

ok, Valandil, who and when?


----------



## Valandil (Nov 19, 2004)

Bilbo + Thorin & Company taking 'barrels out of bondage' from the Halls of the Elvenking (of Mirkwood Forest)... 2941 Third Age... autumn, I believe.  

PS - anyone want to try my second one?

*EDIT* - here it is again - a limmerick:

_Like spears in a row,
Not only for show,
My bane strung them along,
But my revenge was still strong,
For this gift was what brought him down low!_


----------



## Helcaraxë (Nov 21, 2004)

Valandil said:


> Can I just jump right in and play?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent! Well done!


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 22, 2004)

At last. Somenoe finally solve Helc's riddle.


----------



## Starbrow (Nov 23, 2004)

CONGRATULATIONS to Valandil! I thought it would never be answered.


----------



## Astaldo (Nov 23, 2004)

Yeah me too. It was too difficult. Well congratulations Valandil.


----------



## Valandil (Nov 23, 2004)

Thanks folks... like I said, it was a bit easier because I had asked a question about it once on another forum.

Anyone want to take a crack at my 'spears' limmerick??


----------



## ely (Nov 26, 2004)

I wouldn't mind a clue, really...  

It's just difficult sometimes to think in the right direction, and at the moment all that I can think about it Sauron's downfall at the end of Second Age and the gift being the Ring or so (though it sounds all wrong) and... blaaah...


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 26, 2004)

> Anyone want to take a crack at my 'spears' limmerick??


What was it?



> I wouldn't mind a clue, really...


Oh and this coming from the one who doesn't give clues herself!


----------



## ely (Nov 26, 2004)

Sabeen said:


> What was it?


_*Like spears in a row,
Not only for show,
My bane strung them along,
But my revenge was still strong,
For this gift was what brought him down low!*_




> Oh and this coming from the one who doesn't give clues herself!


I *do* give clues! Just not too many.


----------



## Valandil (Nov 26, 2004)

ely said:


> I wouldn't mind a clue, really...
> 
> It's just difficult sometimes to think in the right direction, and at the moment all that I can think about it Sauron's downfall at the end of Second Age and the gift being the Ring or so (though it sounds all wrong) and... blaaah...



More obscure than that.

Hope you won't mind if I wait on hints... esp since that was the first attempt anyone made on it - and I don't have any good hints in mind.


----------



## ely (Nov 27, 2004)

> Hope you won't mind if I wait on hints... esp since that was the first attempt anyone made on it - and I don't have any good hints in mind.


I know what you mean. Sometimes it's so hard to give clues, and I never understand if they give away too much or are too vague.  

Obscure, heh? I'll think about it...


----------



## Firawyn (Nov 27, 2004)

Has it anything to do with Eomer in Rohan after the dreath of Theodred?


----------



## Valandil (Nov 27, 2004)

Sabeen said:


> Has it anything to do with Eomer in Rohan after the dreath of Theodred?



No - but there might be SOME faint connection there.  Think... 'like spears in a row' (but NOT actual spears)... which might somehow be 'strung along'


----------



## ely (Dec 21, 2004)

*thinking* How about some clues _now_?  

I'll try guessing something, too.

Ar-Pharazôn capturing Sauron, Sauron pretending to be a good guy and giving him advice, all ending with Akallabêth...

OR

The story of Turin and Mim

OR

The White Council driving Sauron out of Dol Guldur and believing that he's still weak and all...


That's all I can come up with right now...  

And I can't get around the idea that those spears in a row refers to some kind of army, or something like that...  

Really like to have some clues...


----------



## Valandil (Dec 21, 2004)

ely said:


> :
> :
> :
> The story of Turin and Mim
> ...



Weeee-eeelll... there ARE Dwarves involved - and Men, though this is much later.  

None of the others were close...


----------



## Firawyn (Feb 12, 2005)

Appearently every one gave up since there hasn't been a post since december. What gives? 

I give up, so either tell us or give us a really good clue, Val.


----------



## Helcaraxë (Feb 13, 2005)

The sack of Menegroth, and the Neckalce of the Dwarves?


----------



## Valandil (Feb 21, 2005)

Sorry...  this went unanswered so long, I finally stopped checking.

If you're still game:

Not Menegroth - but there IS sort of a necklace... and the Dwarves didn't exactly like gettin' it, which was the source of some of the problem...

Say... your copy of LOTR didn't have an appendectomy, did it?


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 21, 2005)

Are you referring to Fram, who killed Scatha the dragon. Fram was then killed by the Dwarves when he sent them a dragon-teeth necklace instead of a share of Scatha's hoard. Actually, I suppose the limerick is more about Scatha's teeth than Fram.


----------



## Valandil (Feb 22, 2005)

Exactly right Starbrow! Scatha's teeth! They were like spears in a row (I'd expect) - and certainly for more than just show. His "bane" - Fram, "strung them along" by making a necklace of them. But perhaps the dragon's power was still at work (at least I'm sure Scatha would like to think so  ), prompting Fram to give the Dwarves this necklace instead of some portion of their treasure.

Whew!


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 24, 2005)

Why don't you try this one?

From the north he came
And the south felt shame.
The seaman won the game;
The city was conquered by flame.

Ten years away he stayed.
The North gave him some aid.
For his son's death he was paid.
But the end was hastened, I'm afraid.


----------



## Valandil (Feb 24, 2005)

I think I know... 

Shall I then say?
Or let some others play?


----------



## Valandil (Feb 24, 2005)

OK - I can't resist anymore:  



Starbrow said:


> From the north he came
> And the south felt shame.
> The seaman won the game;
> The city was conquered by flame.
> ...




*From the north he came*

King Eldacar of Gondor, the 'half-breed' son of King Valacar and the daughter of the King of Rhovanion.

*And the south felt shame.*

Many in Gondor were ashamed of their King's mixed lineage.

*The seaman won the game;*

The seaman of Gondor was Eldacar's (third?) cousin Castamir, who was Captain of Ships and lead a rebellion in order to institute a more 'racially pure' king (himself!  ).

*The city was conquered by flame.*

Osgiliath, capital of Gondor was greatly destroyed. The bridge was broken and the Chief Palantir fell into the Anduin. Castamir put Ornendil, eldest son of Eldacar to death.

*Ten years away he stayed.*

Eldacar fled to his mother's people in the north for ten years (1437 to 1447, right?  ) ...

*The North gave him some aid.*

... then rallied an army about himself from Rhovanion and the northern parts of Gondor, in order to take his kingdom back!

*For his son's death he was paid.*

Eldacar slew Castamir, who as mentioned had slain his eldest son (and drove off the remnants of the rebels).

*But the end was hastened, I'm afraid*

By this, you either mean the weakening of Gondor... or the further decline of the Dunedain as seen in the royal family - although at first the latter did not come appreciably quicker, despite Eldacar's mixed heritage.


----------



## Starbrow (Feb 25, 2005)

Excellent answer, Valandil.

The last line, "But the end was hastened, I'm afraid." was meant to refer to how the Kin-Strife contributed to the decline of Gondor.

Do you have a new riddle ready for us?


----------



## Valandil (May 15, 2005)

Starbrow said:


> Excellent answer, Valandil.
> 
> The last line, "But the end was hastened, I'm afraid." was meant to refer to how the Kin-Strife contributed to the decline of Gondor.
> 
> Do you have a new riddle ready for us?



I'm sorry - was I supposed to keep this going, since I solved?

I sort of thought it was a 'free-for-all' - but I could try to come up with something if necessary.


----------



## Starbrow (May 17, 2005)

Hi Valandil,

I think the rules are that whoever guesses the event being described gets to do the next one. But you can ask for anyone to do the next event.


----------



## Valandil (Feb 22, 2007)

Well... it took me awhile to think one up:  

*In the shadows of night's edge,
I brew a heady ale,
Where dwelt once both Elves and Men,
Now I never see a sail.*

Sorry about the very long delay - and derailment of the game.


----------



## Firawyn (Feb 22, 2007)

Minis Tirith and the Fall of Gondor?


----------



## Valandil (Feb 22, 2007)

Firawyn said:


> Minis Tirith and the Fall of Gondor?



Nope.  

Which fall of Gondor was that?


----------



## Firawyn (Feb 23, 2007)

Oh shoot, brain ****. Sorry. Ignore my last answer...I'll think on this a little more later.

Fir-


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 8, 2007)

A heady ale makes me think of the River Baranduin (Brandywine), but I don't know about the rest.


----------



## Valandil (Mar 9, 2007)

Starbrow said:


> A heady ale makes me think of the River Baranduin (Brandywine), but I don't know about the rest.



You're on the right track...


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 9, 2007)

Valandil said:


> *In the shadows of night's edge,
> I brew a heady ale,
> Where dwelt once both Elves and Men,
> Now I never see a sail.*



Okay, well now that I'm more awake, let's have another look.

Where dwelt both Elves and Men could refer to the area around the Shire, which would connect to what Starbrow said... Now I never see a sail...we're probably looking at the West, around the war of the ring...In shadows of night's edge... Mordor often gets refered to 'shadow' and 'night's edge'....

Maybe somthing Samwise thought up as he and the others were leaving the Shire on route to Bree...

Am I near to the mark or have I completly fallen off the rocker this time?


----------



## Valandil (Mar 10, 2007)

Firawyn said:


> Okay, well now that I'm more awake, let's have another look.
> 
> Where dwelt both Elves and Men could refer to the area around the Shire, which would connect to what Starbrow said... Now I never see a sail...we're probably looking at the West, around the war of the ring...In shadows of night's edge... Mordor often gets refered to 'shadow' and 'night's edge'....
> 
> ...



I'd say you're getting colder... just a little bit colder.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 10, 2007)

In which part Val? Or all? Send me in the right direction.


----------



## Valandil (Mar 11, 2007)

Well... Starbrow was right about the Brandywine / Baranduin River. In one of the appendices (I think right toward the end of the last one), we are told that the Shire Hobbits have a joking reference to the river that translates as "heady ale".

So - if the "heady ale" in my riddle is the Brandywine / Baranduin River - where does that take the rest of it?  

This may still be a bit hard if one's knowlege is limited to LOTR... but I like these things a little challenging anyway.


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 11, 2007)

The Brandywine begins at Lake Evendim and I know the Dunedain of the north lived there. But I don't remember anything about elves living there.

Am I getting close?

P.S. Are there an hints in your writings?


----------



## Valandil (Mar 12, 2007)

No - this is all solveable from Tolkien's works - you don't need mine as well.  

But - *Lake Evendim* is the answer. I'll break it down for you:

_In the shadows of night's edge,_

Lake Evendim (Water of the Twilight - or Nenuial) is partly surrounded by the Hills of Evendim (Twilight) - so is in the shadow of twilight - or "night's edge"

_I brew a heady ale,_

Yes - Evendim is the source of the Baranduin - which the Hobbits refer to as "Heady Ale" ("Bralda-him") - in last entry of Appendix F.

_Where dwelt once both Elves and Men,_

Yes - Elendil built Annuminas there late in the Second Age... but Galadriel had dwelt there early in the Second Age.

_Now I never see a sail._

Now (at least at the time of LOTR) nobody lives there anymore... also a hint that it's a body of water.

Your turn.


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 12, 2007)

It will take me a couple of days to come up with something. If anyone has a riddle now, you can post for me.


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 16, 2007)

I would like to know person, place and song. 
Good luck.

He sang a silly song
About a dancing cow
That was rather long.
It is much shorter now.
But it got him into trouble
When he sang it for them double.


----------



## Valandil (Mar 22, 2007)

OK - I wasn't going to do this, because I didn't want to risk holding the game up for ages again - so soon.

But it IS your birthday!  

Frodo / Prancing Pony / "The Cow Jumped Over the Moon"

So... if I don't get another riddle up soon, would you guys be interested in doing "free for all" with this thread? Anyone could post a riddle anytime, even if others are up unsolved - and solving doesn't necessarily mean you have an obligation to post?

OR - do you prefer to keep it where the solver posts the next?


----------



## Valandil (Apr 5, 2007)

*Starbrow* - was I right?

Don't worry - I won't keep things slowed up as long this time around, if I got it.


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 5, 2007)

Sorry for holding up the game. I thought I had already replied.

Yes, you're right. And IMHO I think it's okay for anyone to post the next event. I hope we can get more people involved in this game.


----------



## Valandil (Apr 6, 2007)

Let me toss out this one I wrote sometime back. There's so much to it, that something will probably give it away:

_*T'was at our feast, my fate was laid,
Amid the joy, a rash vow made.
The morning next, farewells were bade,
Then all alone, I breached the shade.

With flaming torch I pierced the gloom,
Companions now, disturbed from tomb,
Reveal a glimpse of secret room,
My lust for wealth then seals my doom.

At sight of hoard, I gave a shout,
The ans'ring gust, my torch blew out.
Spun-fallen-rise, my path in doubt.
Was thru shut door my homeward route?

To broken sword I beat the door,
Until at least I beat no more.
Awaiting succor, on the floor,
For fifty years and twenty score.*_


----------



## Starbrow (May 15, 2007)

Is this from LOTR?


----------



## Valandil (May 16, 2007)

Oooo... must I give hints so soon?  


Well... kinda!


----------



## Ar-Feiniel (May 18, 2007)

I'm not sure how your game is played cos I only read this last page, but I believe your poem is about Brego's son Baldor who vowed he would tread the Paths of the Dead.


----------



## Valandil (May 19, 2007)

That's correct!


----------



## Ar-Feiniel (May 21, 2007)

Sorry it took me so long to reply. You can go ahead and post something. But for future reference, are you guessing just poems, riddles and songs? And does it include all of Tolkien's work, or just LotR?


----------



## Valandil (May 21, 2007)

Take a look at the opening post of the thread... it's pretty "open-ended", format-wise.

For my part, I modeled my puzzles from a "Riddling Game" I've played at another forum.


----------



## Ar-Feiniel (May 22, 2007)

Okay, I got it now. But you can go ahead and post another riddle. It will take me a little while to make one up and I don't want to hold up your game. By the way, I liked your poem.


----------



## Druid of Lûhn (Jan 3, 2010)

Anamatar IV said:


> Seldom do
> The sun and moon
> Shine in unison
> But
> ...


Narzil is broken, it is remade into Anduril. Anduril is the terror of orc. It is the flame of the west. The sun comes up in the east, so does the moon, does this have anything to do with it?


----------



## Astrance (Jan 3, 2010)

*Thrice received a name,
Twice friend of the lame,
Once put to shame,

Bearer of bloodstain,
Slayer of his bane,

Son of steadfast,
Hero, yet outcast.*

There you go !


----------



## Druid of Lûhn (Jan 5, 2010)

Gollum / Smeagol?


----------



## Valandil (Jan 5, 2010)

Sounds like Turin to me.


----------



## Astrance (Jan 5, 2010)

Valandil said:


> Sounds like Turin to me.



Exactly !

He bore many names, but usually of his own choice ; others named him only three times (Turin, Mormegil, Adanedhel) ;
Was friend of Labadal and Brandir, both lame ;
Ashamed in public by Thingol's counsellor.

Claimed the bloodstain thing himself, slew Glaurung... « Son of steadfast » gave it away, since Steadfast was Hurin's nickname.

Your turn !


----------



## Valandil (Jan 5, 2010)

OK... it's been awhile:

*Fourth of four and the last one,
Yet I alone remain.
My brothers died with our father,
Leaving me the whole domain.*


----------



## Turgon (Jan 6, 2010)

I think it might just be Valandil.


----------



## Valandil (Jan 6, 2010)

Yes - hope it wasn't too easy, with the answer right before you.  

Your turn Turgon.


----------



## Turgon (Jan 6, 2010)

Yay! Not quite sure I completely understand there principle behind this game but I'll give it a shot!

Beneath the moon, three brothers strong,
Beneath the sun, brought forth a song,
Who though played these brothers wrong?


----------



## Astrance (Jan 8, 2010)

Would it be the three sons of Finwë and their war against Morgoth ?


----------



## Turgon (Jan 8, 2010)

Nope......


----------



## Druid of Lûhn (Jan 9, 2010)

The three hunters: Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas?


----------



## Turgon (Jan 11, 2010)

No druid, you are _stone_ cold there...


----------



## Valandil (Jan 11, 2010)

If that was a hint, I would guess the three trolls from The Hobbit: Tom, Bert and William. And if so, it was Gandalf who 'played them wrong'.

If so - that's a good one. All along I was trying to think of who in the First Age might fit.


----------



## Turgon (Jan 11, 2010)

Yep the three brothers were the Hugginses from the Hobbit... 

The song was a reference to the poem Sam recites when the Fellowship come across the stony forms of the trolls on their way to Rivendell.

So the answer was indeed Gandalf - being the fellow who did them in so to speak.

I hoped the sun and moon reference might have people thinking back to the Sil...

Well done Valandil!


----------



## Valandil (Jan 11, 2010)

And a very nice riddle, Turgon! I generally find them harder to make than to solve, and that was great!  

OK - this may just have too much information to cause much difficulty, but here goes:

*My older son died with me, at my side,
My younger said he'd stay home, but lied.
He rode to battle disguised, and died.
Leaving only my daughter, a northern man's bride.*


----------



## Astrance (Jan 12, 2010)

Is this the story of the House of Haleth ?


----------



## Valandil (Jan 12, 2010)

No Stockholm, not that house.


----------



## Ananas (Mar 4, 2010)

Could it be Ondoher and his sons Artamir and Faramir (who went to the battle disguised), died in the battle against wainriders in Morannon? And his daughter was Fíriel?


----------



## Valandil (Mar 4, 2010)

That is exactly correct, Ananas!


----------



## Ananas (Mar 5, 2010)

Okay, here is next one:

*So they went
and our hope with them
Left behind
all warm and light
No laugh was heard
no one sang
So they went
and night hid them
*

This should be easy.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 6, 2010)

Frodo and Sam entering Moria after the Breaking of the Fellowship?


----------



## Ananas (Mar 6, 2010)

No, a little bit earlier.


----------



## Astrance (Mar 6, 2010)

Aragorn going through the Path of the Dead ?


----------



## Ananas (Mar 6, 2010)

Nope, earlier.


----------



## Astrance (Mar 6, 2010)

The Hobbits going through the Old Forest ?


----------



## Ananas (Mar 7, 2010)

No, that's too early.


----------



## Astrance (Mar 7, 2010)

Oh, I know ! That's the Fellowship leaving Rivendell !


----------



## Ananas (Mar 7, 2010)

Stockholm said:


> Oh, I know ! That's the Fellowship leaving Rivendell !



That is correct!


----------



## Astrance (Mar 7, 2010)

*I once knew this chain,
I bear it again.
Great treasures were mine,
None ever were thine.

Freedom never lasts,
Yet my seed is cast.
Where has gone my crown ?
Why was I so bound ?*

I hope it's not too obvious


----------



## Hiril Elfwraith (Mar 8, 2010)

Um, Morgoth? When he was bound the second time, after the War of Wrath? As in knowing the chain before... and his iron crown...

All I can think of right now!


----------



## Astrance (Mar 9, 2010)

You've got it right !


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Feb 23, 2011)

As seven we sleep at peace and in darkness.
We can not be disturbed, unless in great distress.
If one or seven is awakened, we all get up.
And when we start, it is with a blaze at the top.


----------



## Firawyn (Feb 23, 2011)

The Seven Stones...aka the Palantiri?


----------



## Astrance (Feb 23, 2011)

The seven Fathers of the Dwarves ?


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Mar 1, 2011)

Sorry for the late reply...



> The Seven Stones...aka the Palantiri?



Nope



> The seven Fathers of the Dwarves ?



Nope, again


Hint : It has something to do with fire.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Mar 10, 2011)

Do I really have to BUMP this thread again?

Another clue then : The seven were awakened in LotR.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 10, 2011)

Well fire and the number seven make me think of dwarves. You already said no to the Seven Fathers, though I do recall a reference of "Durin Awoke" during the WotR.

The only other "seven" references I can think of in relation to fire and dwarves would be the Seven Rings, or the Seven Hoards, though in essence, they are one in the same.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm sorry Firawyn, but there are 7 others... Tolkien did use the value, seven, alot.

And btw, dwarves has nothing to do with them.

Another clue : The seven I want is not of the living, though some acients would speak against that.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 11, 2011)

_*ancients_


Well, just because I can't think of it doesn't mean its not there. I'm not Eru. :*)

I'm drawing a blank here.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Mar 12, 2011)

Darn... why do I ask such hard questions? :*D

We gotta close this one, soon.... Allready, 17 days has past.

Another clue : A hobbit awoke number one, and soon after all seven were awake.




> As seven we sleep at peace and in darkness.
> We can not be disturbed, unless in great distress.
> If one or seven is awakened, we all get up.
> And when we start, it is with a blaze at the top.
> ...


----------



## Kyranger (Mar 12, 2011)

The beacons of Gondor?


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 12, 2011)

That occurred to me as well, Kyranger. I just could remember there being seven. 


Barrow-downs?
Dwarven Rings?
Ents?


I'm really drawing a blank here...:*o


----------



## Bucky (Mar 13, 2011)

Balrogs........


----------



## Bucky (Mar 13, 2011)

No....

Those stupid warning fires between Gondor & Rohan, of course.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Mar 14, 2011)

*Kyranger*, you got it... the seven beacons it is...

And Bucky...well, one could call them that. :*p 

Kyranger, give the next one...


----------



## Kyranger (Mar 14, 2011)

Open Floor.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Mar 18, 2011)

Kyranger has declared it an open floor.

Anybody wants a dance? Please feel free to post an Event Riddle/question.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 18, 2011)

Sure, I'll give it a go --

At the fork of two rivers I am
For some time deserted by all man
Once was powerful in the south
Till eaten by a watery mouth 


Let's see who knows their geography - :*)


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 20, 2011)

Still have no idea. That last line really has me stumped.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 20, 2011)

Think....flood. If that doesn't give it away I don't know what will. :*(


----------



## Prince of Cats (Mar 22, 2011)

Just to keep the topic going, is this a tree perhaps that was pushed upstream to the fork of two tributaries by some sort of event like the recent Tsunami? And for some time deserted by all man could be a reference to its inclusion in the radiation zone in the tsunami case.

On the right track?


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 22, 2011)

Uhhh...no.

Hints:
* It's a city, not a tree.
* It's west of the Misty Mountains. 
* It was deserted, after it flooded.


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 22, 2011)

That sounds like Tharbad. I'd forgotten that it had flooded.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 22, 2011)

That's what I was looking for! 

Back in the days when we had the MERPG extension of TTF, I was involved in a Role Play called "Tharbad Rebuilt". If I remember correctly, the only member that was involved with that RP, that is still active on TTF, is HLGStrider. :*( I miss those days.


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 23, 2011)

Ok, give me time to come up with a new riddle. If any one wants to jump in with a riddle, go right ahead.


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 26, 2011)

Here's my riddle, but I don't think it's very good and it's probably too easy.

In a place all alone
There sat a throne
Then with smoke and fire
Became home to a flier.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 26, 2011)

Smaug. Taking over he Lonely Mountains. 

:*confused:


----------



## Eru Ilúvatar (Mar 26, 2011)

Morgoth's throne in Angband. Smoke and fire of Thangorodrim. Home to Ancalagon, first of the winged dragons.


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 28, 2011)

Firawyn gets it. I was trying to refer to the Lonely Mountain when I said "In a place all alone."


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 28, 2011)

That was my thought. :*D

Okay...here we go again.

Twenty is the final count
Though one of us feels left out
From Fire to Grass
To Ice and Glass
In the full circle of power



This is going to either be MEGA easy, or it'll be really hard by fluke. :*o Good luck.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Mar 31, 2011)

*....or it'll be really hard by fluke.

*
Throwing a wild guess here...

Circle of power... Could be Manwe's court

But I'm not sure about the 20 minus 1... I'm thinking of the Valar and Maias, but can't make the amount right... The one left out, could be Melkor.

But really... I'm in the wild...


----------



## Starbrow (Mar 31, 2011)

There are 20 rings of power, but I don't get how Fire, Grass, Ice and Glass would figure into it.


----------



## Firawyn (Mar 31, 2011)

Starbrow gets it. I was thinking of the Rings of power. 

"...From Fire to Grass
To Ice and Glass..."

...refers to the One Ring's Journey. Forged in Fire, Grass referenced it's time with the Hobbits, Ice refers to it's failed journey of Caradhras, and Glass is a loose note on "The Mirror of Galadriel". 

Rings of power was what I was looking for, so go for it Starbrow. :*)


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 1, 2011)

I'll need some time to think of another riddle. If someone else has one ready, he can jump in.


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 1, 2011)

Never one to trust
Took a wizard's touch
Shielding a thief
Many to feed
Kill a king, I must


Who am I?



What can I say? I'm witty, and a songwriter. Writing riddles is easy for me. :*)


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 2, 2011)

And I'm so happy I don't have to come up with a riddle. I think it's more fun to answer than ask.


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 2, 2011)

Then answer, dear Starbrow! ;*)


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm having trouble with the riddle. The different lines seem to point to different things.


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 4, 2011)

It's pre-War of the Ring....

That would be a hint. ;*)


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Apr 5, 2011)

A wild guess...

Could it be *Beorn*?


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 5, 2011)

Good wild guess, Tom!! That's what I was looking for. 

Never one to trust (he was known to not be trusting)
Took a wizard's touch (Gandalf talked him into helping about Thorin and Co.)
Shielding a thief (Err...Bilbo)
Many to feed (The thirteen of them during the Hobbit)
Kill a king, I must (And he killed the King of the Orcs in the Battle of Five Armys)



You're up! :*)


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Apr 6, 2011)

*I saw the first rise of the sun... but I see no more.
I witnessed the dead come alive... but I witness no more.
I hosted a star to be... but I host no more.
I heard the water flowing by my sides... but I hear no more.
I once were green... but I am no more.
*
What am I?


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 6, 2011)

Ents? 

:*confused:

Maybe?


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Apr 7, 2011)

No, it's not the Ents... btw. they still are, aren't they?

Last line holds a clue...and I'll give another...

It's not of the living... think place instead. (no more clues... should be easy enough without)


----------



## Firawyn (Apr 7, 2011)

Dunharrow?


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Apr 8, 2011)

Dunharrow, it is NOT... It is close to mountains, but not that close...

No matter, where you stand, you'll hear water running... 
(Yes, I know what I wrote, but I'll give another clue anyway...)


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 8, 2011)

Is it the island that Beren and Luthien lived on in Ossiriand? Sorry, I don't remember the name of the island.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (Apr 8, 2011)

*Starbrow*, you are correct...:*up

The Green island, Tol Galen, the last realm of Beren and Lúthien, it is...


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 9, 2011)

I'll try to think of another riddle. If someone else wants to jump in with a riddle, go right ahead.


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 13, 2011)

Wide walkers
Slow talkers
Rarely seen
Clothed in green
Far seekers
Long speakers
Who are we?


----------



## Eru Ilúvatar (Apr 13, 2011)

Are they Ents?


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 15, 2011)

:*upVery good, Eru. It's your turn.


----------



## Eru Ilúvatar (Apr 15, 2011)

Lowly am I
Inclined to lie
Yet I did kill
The man of skill.


----------



## Eru Ilúvatar (Apr 23, 2011)

no guesses?


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 25, 2011)

It sounds like Grima Wormtongue.


----------



## Eru Ilúvatar (Apr 25, 2011)

Grima Wormtongue is correct. (I thought that was gonna be harder...)


----------



## Starbrow (Apr 28, 2011)

He gave out orders and called the Chief,
But, really, he was just a thief.
Until one day, to his loss,
He was replaced as the Boss.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (May 4, 2011)

Is it *Lotho Pimple* from the Shire?


----------



## Starbrow (May 7, 2011)

:*upYes, Tom, you are correct.


----------



## Peeping-Tom (May 9, 2011)

*Peas, apples, Hoppits or Men.
Who could not tell the difference?
and who were given that joking offence?*


----------



## Peeping-Tom (May 14, 2011)

I thought, it was two (...and too) easy questions... but I guess not..:*p

Hint : They were both present in Imladris during the Counsil.


----------



## Zenith (May 19, 2011)

You are right, it is incredibly easy. But isn't it supposed to be Hobbits, not Hoppits?

Anyway, Lindir the elf among other elves could not tell the difference between Strider, a.k.a. Aragorn and Bilbo.


----------



## BlackNúmenórean (Jun 6, 2012)

Is anyone going to make a question?


----------

