# Redwall



## Hammersmith (Jul 3, 2005)

Due to popular demand, and the fact that I and some other culprit have been polluting far too many other (perfectly good) threads with our Redwall shennanigans, I've decided to open a Redwall thread. I stuck it in Related Topics because, as Hobbit Queen (I think?) rightly stated, it *is* fantasy after all, and if anyone cares to ask I can probably find or invent or persuade you that I did one of the above several Tolkien influences in Redwall. If that didn't convince any stray mods who happen to be passing, I'm sorry I didn't put this in Stuff And Bother.

So anyway, this thread shall be where Redwall things may be talked about. If it's empty in a day or two I shall attempt to start a discussion on something; if it remains empty, I'll just delete my posts and try not to talk about Redwall in _real_ threads. So yeah. It's here, it exists, we have no excuse.

Enjoy.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Jul 4, 2005)

Praise the Lord and pass some of Bilbo's pocket-hankies!!!

Tee-hee.

If you don't get it, which most should not, and if you're dying with curiosity, which would make you really weird, just look at my first post in this thread. Or um, actually, I suppose since it establishes my general opinions of this series pretty well I'll just quote the relevent part here so it's handy...



ME!!! Who else? said:


> Oh yeah, Asmodeus was a pretty scary and well-written character. He made me feel all weird--not really chilled but somehow...dark, and almost empty. Creepy. Anyway, since--I think it was the fifth book, Martin the Warrior, whichever that was, I have completely fallen out of love with the Redwall series, it just seems to juvenille and cartoon-like, and _waaaaaaaayyy_ too predictable. I can hardly even keep track of which intrepid squirrel that dies at the end is which. It was good at first but all the characters end up being rehashes of the earlier ones to the point that they just aren't interesting anymore. If Jacques stuck with the originals and kept putting them in different situations it might be a little better because then at least you know them and be able to keep track of who's who and care what happened to them, but that would ruin the sense of historical depth, and since my complaint is that everything's too much the same it might only make matters worse. Also he should have sparrows again, if he hasn't already that is, I haven't read the whole series since I find it so hard to get into. Queen Warbeak was the best!!! I still miss her! BWWAAA-HAAAA-HUUUU-HAAAHHHH *honk*.
> 
> That was uncontrolable sobbing followed by me blowing my nose, in case you couldn't tell.


So yeah, I could be a charter member of the Warbeak fan-club. Does anyone know if the "Sparra tongue" is supposed to actually resemble some dialect? I would guess not, but everything else Jacques does seems to...Welsh for the moles, there was one clearly Scottish falcon and an Irish owl, and so on. I couldn't tell you exactly where anything else was from, but various places in England for most everything else, excepting of course those who don't have any obvious accent...

All right, I think one interesting thing to discuss some would be who everyone's favorite villain is. I'd say Asmodeus, except I don't know if he qualifies as a "villain" in the conventional sense as Cluny the Scourge was the real one in the first book...Asmodeus was more just an incidental bad-guy of a perhaps more instinctive nature. Besides which, although As' was the scariest, I think I liked Tsarmina better; she was just so...wicked, and yet petty, and _sooooo_ very catty. It was perfect. Especially at the end when she didn't want to get wet, oh that was sweet. And those two foxes, whichever book they were...the mates, and the male had a wolf-pelt he always wore with iron claws or something...they were good too. So yeah, Tsarmina, the foxes, Cluny, and Asmodeus, in approximately that order...and Ferahgo the Assassin after that, I suppose. Oh, however you spell his name...

And I think perhaps I was the one who pointed out it's fantasy. Although Hobbit Queen may well have done so also. This is the Redwall quote from my other post in that thread; (I'm nothing if not thorough, yeesh.)



Me again said:


> Yeah, that would be great, I'd start it myself except I'm not around much now, and I can't think where that should go anyway...probably Related Topics? It is fantasy after all...either that or S&B, I guess, but I don't really know or care.
> 
> And oh yeah, I finally actually counted and realized that Martin the Warrior, the last truly decent book before it just got _too_ out of hand, is the sixth one. Redwall, Mossflower, Mattimeo, Mariel of Redwall, Salamandastron, then MtW. Though Pearls of Lutra was pretty darned good too...a lot more action with the villians in that one, some totally absorbing back-stabbing.


Hmm, I just noticed I misspelled villains in that one. Oh well. Anyway, PoL is the last book I've read in the series, and was a vast improvement over the previous two or three, so hopefully the series puts itself together again in the following books. Fair warning to everyone, my Redwall knowledge is therefore limited, and I have no clue what happens in the ones after that. Hmm. I suppose come to think of it that I wouldn't really want things spoiled from beyond there, but it doesn't really make much difference with Redwall anyway, most of the plot twists are usually perfectly obvious from the start.


Good gracious, I can't just do a nice, short, little post, can I? I officialy condemn this one to be its current size adrift in cyberspace for the rest of its natural life.


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## Hammersmith (Jul 4, 2005)

Welsh? Welsh moles!?! My dear Rosie, you are sadly mistaken. The moles are from the West Country. Near Wales, but there's a world of difference between the accents.
If I were to take a pick out of my favourite villains, I'd have to say either Ziggu the Corsair under Ferahgo, or Ublaz from the Pearls of Lutra. I do love Brian's sophisticated maniacs.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Jul 4, 2005)

Ah, my most humble and abject apologies. I should never have assumed anything about accents when I have had so little real exposure to them...I'd gotten so used to thinking of them that way it didn't occur to me I could be wrong...bad, bad Hobbit-gal. I'm frightfully disappointed. I rather like the Welsh people and language, but hey, West Countries is cool too.


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## e.Blackstar (Jul 16, 2005)

*stumbles in gasping for breath*  

Oh look, a Redwall thread! Hullo!


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## Gúthwinë (Jul 16, 2005)

Cool! You should start a Role-playing Redwall if You do heres my character:


Safear Braebuck

Weapons: Sword of Martin Wot!

Lives: In Redwall 

Story: Nothing special, raised in Redwall, taught by Mattimeo in sword play

Race: Hare, Wot! Wot!


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## e.Blackstar (Jul 20, 2005)

That 'wot'-ing could get VERY irritating after...oh, about 3 seconds.

*goes insane*


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## Gúthwinë (Jul 20, 2005)

*burst out laughing* Ha Ha Wot! Wot!


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## e.Blackstar (Jul 22, 2005)

*kills Warrior*


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## vamp (Jul 22, 2005)

*helps maria*


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## HLGStrider (Jul 23, 2005)

OK GUYS!

Let's avoid roleplay killing in discussion threads.


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## e.Blackstar (Jul 23, 2005)

ROLEPLAY killing? I was serious!


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## Elendae (Jul 24, 2005)

Now now guys, don't be shedding blood over an accent, all-though it is interesting to try yourself   . I think that a Redwall RPG would be interesting, but entirely out of place in the Tolkien Forum.


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## e.Blackstar (Sep 6, 2005)

*twitches*


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## Hammersmith (Sep 6, 2005)

Whoa! *Falls over*

Speaking of accents, does anyone find Jacques' method of writing his accents irritating? In fact, what do you think of it at all? Useful, stupid, boring, yellow, overused, what? I tried imitating the style once and hated the result. Brian pulls it off I think, but I sure can't.


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## e.Blackstar (Sep 6, 2005)

Mmm, its okay because it shows how the different animals talk, but it gets hard to read the cockney moles after a while, and the wot-ing definitely get obnoxious.


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## Hammersmith (Sep 6, 2005)

The moles are *not* cockney. The closest to cockney Brian uses are the searats. The moles have west country accents.


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## e.Blackstar (Sep 6, 2005)

You knew what I meant.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Sep 13, 2005)

I think it's remarkably well done...one of the few things that I never got more than mildly irritated with in the whole series.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Sep 13, 2005)

Hello, Redwall people! 

I wish to read the Redwall series. However, there are approximately three billion Redwall books out there () and I can't seem to find the first book. What is the first book? And how does their order work after that?

Thanks!


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## e.Blackstar (Sep 13, 2005)

The actual order is as follows: (this list does not include Rakkety Tam, Triss, and Loamhedge, the three most recent books)

Lord Brocktree
Martin the Warrior
Mossflower
The Legend of Luke
Outcast of Redwall
Mariel of Redwall
The Bellmaker
Salamandastron
Redwall
Mattimeo
Pearls of Lutra
The Long Patrol
Marlfox
Taggerung


Most of the books are interconnected over hundreds of years: A similar setting here, a familier character's name there. Of course, they all center around Redwall Abbey, its enemies, its founders, and its inhabitants.

I would recommend starting with Mossflower. It takes place directly before the building of the Abbey, and it's my favorite. Read Redwall next. Then from there you can pretty much go anywhere.

I started with The Pearls of Lutra and then to Redwall, Mossflower, Marlfox, and the other ones in topsy-turvy order. It doesn't matter especially...though I would recommend Mossflower, Marlfox, Taggerung, Pearls of Lutra, and Outcast of Redwall as my favorites.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, I agree with your favorite list, e.Blackstar, except I haven't read Marlfox or Taggerung yet, and I think I liked but thought there was something vaguely wrong with Outcast.

I suspect that if I read them in the order you have posted I might find them easier to swallow. I assume this is the chronilogical order from the point of view of the series' world? I've been reading them in what I believe is the original order of publication, meaning it jumps around a LOT. I suppose I might have been wrong about some, but I don't think copyrights lie...but then again, who's to say that they were published in the order they were copyrighted? Oh, I give up.

I read them in this order so far:
Redwall
Mossflower
Mattimeo
Mariel of Redwall
Salamandastron
Martin the Warrior
The Bellmaker
Um, The Outcast of Redwall (I think)
Pearls of Lutra


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## Nenya Evenstar (Sep 15, 2005)

I'm glad to hear I don't _have_ to read them in any specific order! You see, I have to get them from the library, and I don't think my library has them all! Thankee!


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## Hammersmith (Sep 15, 2005)

I'd advise going with the publishing order. That way you can see the gradual evolution of the series, and the feel of the books won't sharply oscillate. You'll also meet up with old and familiar characters down the road, which is a pleasant surprise. I'd also recommend not missing out Mariel of Redwall, The Bellmaker or Outcast of Redwall, in my opinion the best in the series. By a long, long way.


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## e.Blackstar (Sep 17, 2005)

I second that. Mossflower and The Bellmaker are my absolute favorites...and Mariel is essential reading before The Bellmaker.


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## wizard2c (Sep 17, 2005)

Hey...I think I'm going to like it here......I bought my first Redwall last week....Rakkety Tam....have not started it yet....been working on some new potions this week..........


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