# Was Tom Bombadil Jewish? (A serious thread...)



## BluestEye (May 19, 2002)

I was reading Tar-Palantir's thread about Tom Bombadil and suddenly a question came to me: "Who gave Tom his name? Why Tom? Why Bombadil?"
I know about Tom Bombadil being J.R.R's son's childhood-doll, but I refer in my question to the Tom Bombadil of Middle-Earth.
Tom is an English name, a short-name to Thomas, right? English names in Middle-Earth are given, as I remember from the story, only to Hobbits. So, did the Hobbits named him Tom? And if they did, what is the name he gave to himself? What was his REAL name?
In the Tokien Companion by David Day it is written that Tom Bombadil was also known as Yarwein Ben-Adar. Where is it written in Tolkien's writtings? And why an Hebrew name like Ben-Adar was given to our dear old Tom Bombadil? (Ben = Son , Adar = Citrus ; Ben Adar = Citrus' Son) And what is Yarwein, and in what language in Middle-Earth is he called by this name?
What is Bombadil and from which language in Middle-Earth came this surname?
Maybe these questions and thier answears can lead to a clue about who Tom was or what is his origins...

Bluest Eye


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## Walter (May 19, 2002)

Whether Tom Bomabdil was Jewish or not I do not know. The name you are referring to is mentioned in TFotR - The Council of Elrond:


> “I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old. That was not then his name. _Iarwain Ben-adar_ we called him, oldest and fatherless. But many another name he has since been given by other folk: _Forn_ by the Dwarves, _Orald_ by Northern Men, and other names beside."
> [CoE P258]


This chapter has undergone several rewritings, in a footnote of an older version it reads: 


> ' "I knew of him," answered Gandalf. "Bombadil's one name. He has called himself by others, suiting himself to the times. Tombombadil's for the Shire-folk. We have seldom met."'


C.T. then notes:


> Pencilled scribbles beneath this, difficult to interpret, give other names of Bombadil: _Forn_ for the Dwarves; _Yárë_ for the Elves, and _Iaur_ (see the Etymologies, V.399, stem YA); _Erion for the Gnomes; Eldest for m[en]
> [The Treason of Isengard - CoE(1) 125]_


_
in the version prior to the final one JRRT wrote:



'I knew of him,' answered the wizard. 'Bombadil is one name. He has called himself others, suiting himself to times and tongues. Tom-bombadil's for the Shirefolk; Erion is for Elves, Forn for the Dwarves, and many names for men. *)...'

Click to expand...

and C.T's footnote explains:



*) The reading given is the product of much changing on the manuscript. At first my father wrote: Yárë's for the Elves, Erion is for Gnomes, Forn for the dwarves; and names of Bombadil among Men, all struck out, were Oreald, Orold (Old English: 'very old'), and Frumbarn (Old English: 'first-born’). 
[The Treason of Isengard - CoE(2) 152/158FN]

Click to expand...

_


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## Beorn (May 19, 2002)

IIRC, Iarwain was word that was used. Iarwain Ben-Adar means (again, IIRC) Oldest and Fatherless...


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## Walter (May 19, 2002)

It is supposed to be Sindarin and to mean exactly what Elrond says: 


> Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, *oldest and fatherless*


. 
Iarwain Ben-adar = old(est) without father

Cheers


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## Diabless (May 20, 2002)

*Hebrew words in LOTR*

I see what you mean BluestEye. Some of the words in Tolkien seem Hebrew but that might because they are Finnish and sound like Hebrew. I don't know any Finnish but I am Jewish so I sort of know how Hebrew sounds. Some words like this are 
Rohirrim (the im is at the end to man plurarl in Hebrew, I think)

Mithrim- is not that water in Hebrew or is that Mythryim.

I am not positive but I see where you're coming from.


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## BluestEye (May 20, 2002)

Diabless, thank you for your reply  

Actualy, Water in Hebrew is Ma'im. But Mithrim sounds more like Mitzraim, 'Egypt' in Hebrew,  

Anyway, you're right, Tolkien's Rohirim always sounded like an Hebrew word. The sufix 'im' is used for Male-Plural names. For an example, 'Binian' in Hebrew is a Building. Many buildings are called: 'Binianim'. Another example: a Mountain in Hebrew is called 'Har'. Many mountains are called: 'Harim'.

Now, Ben-Adar is curiously close to many Jewish surnames, such as: Ben-Basat, Ben-Ezra, Ben-Maimon. Actualy, many Polish surnames wich has the sufix of 'ich' or 'wicz' such as: Sokolowicz and Froimowicz or Froimovich, are built in the same formula. 'ich' or 'wicz' mean "Son of..." so Froimowicz or Froimowicz is actualy "Son of Froim" or in Hebrew: "Ben-Efraim".
Now you can understand why it triggered me when I read about Tom Bombadil's surname: "Ben-Adar"...  
If this name is taken from a Jewish origin, Tom's surname can hint that Iarwain was the Son of Adar.
Adar in Hebrew has a number of meanings:

1. (Literary) Glory, Splendor, Majesty.
2. Citrus
3. to respect, to honor, to show deference
4. the Sixth month of the Hebrew calendar

First of all, Adar, the sixth month of the Hebrew calendar is very special. The Christian calendar is built of 12 months and is not related to the moon so each year the Christian calendar keeps having 12 months. But the Hebrew calendar IS built acording to the moon, so each four years an additional month is needed. For some reason I don't know, Adar was chosen to be multiplied, and every four years we have Adar A and Adar B. An interesting month, this Adar...

Tom lives in the Old-Forest. The trees listen to him and he can command them. Funny that Adar means Citrus, no? Maybe he is the Son of a Citrus-Tree?  
Also Tom is an Honorable creature. He acts as if he is the Master of the Old-Forest and it's close surroundings. He has a sense of mistery and magic and the four Hobbits show him deference and they even let him take the One Ring for a few minutes, a thing Frodo never thought to do even with close friends such as Aragorn, Merry, Pipin or Sam.
But the most curious meaning is the first one mentioned above: Majesty.
If Iarwain's surname means actualy "Son of his majesty" than it brings us to a quite simple conclusion: Tom Bombadil is the son of Iluvatar, which makes him a Vala or a Maia, like many of us believe...

Well, you can't deny it IS an interesting idea...  

Bluest Eye


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## Diabless (May 22, 2002)

Wow! Bluest Eye! Great analasys.
Sorry I messed up on the Hebrew. I think I have hear Mitrayim mentioned in prayers. That makes sense now doe n't it. Now we need someone to tell us if Tolkien ever studied Hebrew. Did he? If Bombadil's name is not Hebrew than does anyone care t explain which langage Iarwain Ben-adar does come from? Dude! I just realized something!

If Iarwain Ben-adar is Hebrew then maybe that is because Tolkien was a Catholic and maybe he wanted to have ancient name so he gave him a name that partly relates to the Hebrew poeple were living many years before Christianity came along. Not that that's _exactly_ what's meant, but maybe he wanted to hint that Bombadil was as old as the Jewish or Hebrew people or maybe he just used Hebrew because it's an old language and Tom is old ect.. 
Any thoughts?
BluestEye?
P.S.- Is your name taken from Toni Morrison's book. I never read it. Is it very good?


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## BluestEye (May 23, 2002)

*Old Son of a Tree...*

Well, I don't know about Tolkien's biography and his religious connections because I haven't read all of his biographies yet...
I've been looking for "Iarwain Ben-Adar" in the Sil's Index, but the name doesn't appear in there. Nonetheless, in the Sil's Appendix I've found this:



> iaur - 'old' in Iant Iaur; cf.the Elvish name of Bombadil, Iarwain.



But nothing is said about the rest of his name... There isn't no "...wain" (and I don't know Quenya good enough to know if it's a suffix for "-est" as in 'Oldest', neither anything similar to 'Ben-Adar'.
Someone has a clue about this? Does anyone here know Quenya good enough to answear this question?

An interesting thing, though, is the Elvish-word 'Alda' which means... Tree! Maybe 'Adar' is a form of 'Alda' (or 'Aldar'), so combining the Hebrew signification and the Elvish one, we come again to:

"Son of a Tree" or "Son of a Citrus-Tree"! 

BluestEye


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## Walter (May 23, 2002)

To connect Adar with "Tree" or "Citrus" is sure an interesting hypothesis, Bluesteye, but probably not more than this. Especially since the translation has already been given in the books, I think it more likely that the (Sindarin) Adar is related to the Quenya _atar_ (father) like in Adan_atari_ (Fathers of Men) or Ilúv_atar_ (All-father)...

The syllable "ata" still means or is part of the word for father in many languages: _ata_ in most slavic languages, _Vater_ german, the english _father_ derives as well from it (to name but a few examples...


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## Legolam (May 23, 2002)

I'm not sure if this is any help to this discussion, and it isn't really anything to do with Jewishness, but i thought I'd chip in my tuppenceworth.

Ben is really common in Scots gaelic referring to hills ie Ben Nevis, Ben Lomond. I think it means mountain or something like that. Anyway, definitely a nature theme coming through all of these translations of Bombadil's name


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## Lantarion (May 23, 2002)

Bluest, the -_wain_ ending is the superlative suffix in Sindarin; so old + -est = oldest. And therefore _iaur_+ _-wain_ = Iaurwain.


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## Diabless (May 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Walter _
> *To connect Adar with "Tree" or "Citrus" is sure an interesting hypothesis, Bluesteye, but probably not more than this. Especially since the translation has already been given in the books, I think it more likely that the (Sindarin) Adar is related to the Quenya atar (father) like in Adanatari (Fathers of Men) or Ilúvatar (All-father)...
> 
> The syllable "ata" still means or is part of the word for father in many languages: ata in most slavic languages, Vater german, the english father derives as well from it (to name but a few examples... *



Ok, Walter. You just convinced me that Bombadil is Iluvatar. I am not backing this is up, but this is now my official opinion.


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## Walter (May 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Diabless _
> Ok, Walter. You just convinced me that Bombadil is Iluvatar. I am not backing this is up, but this is now my official opinion.


It wasn't my intention, but you sure wouldn't be the only one to think this...


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## Lantarion (May 24, 2002)

Christ, you think Tom is Ilúvatar because his Sindarin nickname includes a similar element to the name of Eru?! Come on, you really should form opinions on more fact and less flimsy coincidense. No offense, but just having the root ATA in both names doesn't mean they're the same person!


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## BluestEye (May 25, 2002)

You can't blame her, Potifex. Think about it... 'Oldest and Fatherless"? Who can that be except Ilu?

BluestEye

P.S.
Thanks for the '-wain' translation


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## Walter (May 25, 2002)

Hmmm - I tend to think Ilúvatar is _eternal_ rather than _oldest_ and even if the former implies the latter I do not think a name would be chosen that represents only part of the truth...


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## Diabless (May 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pontifex _
> *Christ, you think Tom is Ilúvatar because his Sindarin nickname includes a similar element to the name of Eru?! Come on, you really should form opinions on more fact and less flimsy coincidense. No offense, but just having the root ATA in both names doesn't mean they're the same person!  *



Ok, Pontifex you're right. I have seen other threads on who he was and I am not convinced about anything. This question can never be answered unless some new stuff is found (I take it the people who have read and analyzed everything he wrote stil don't know who Tom is) But I would like to believe he is Iluvatar. Maybe that's whyo he is. He's who ever you blieve him to be. 
Maybe the reader is supposed to interpret him in their own way.


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## Walter (May 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Diabless _
> But I would like to believe he is Iluvatar. Maybe that's whyo he is. He's who ever you blieve him to be.
> Maybe the reader is supposed to interpret him in their own way.


Exactly, Tolkien wanted to leave the origin of Tom Bombadil (in the LotR) unexplained. In one of his letters he wrote: 
_And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)._

So, yes, everyone can interpret him the way s/he wants, some interpretations are more likely, others less.


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## BluestEye (May 26, 2002)

*You miss the point here...*

OK, we know why he chose the name of Tom Bombadil. It was the name of his son's doll and he wanted to get it into his stories. We can understand that.

But why IARWAIN BEN-ADAR???

What is 'Iarwain'? Why did he chose this name? And why 'Fatherless'? What does it mean? It seems he had some intention in the Elven-name he chose for our dear Tom... what was this intention?

Nobody knows what Iarwain means?

Bluest Eye


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## Walter (May 26, 2002)

Well, I suppose "Iarwain Ben Adar" means: "oldest son of a citrus tree"...


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## Walter (May 26, 2002)

*Re: You miss the point here...*



> _Originally posted by BluestEye _
> But why IARWAIN BEN-ADAR???
> 
> What is 'Iarwain'? Why did he chose this name? And why 'Fatherless'? What does it mean? It seems he had some intention in the Elven-name he chose for our dear Tom... what was this intention?
> Bluest Eye



Okay, I'll give it one more try...


> 'Who are you, Master?' he asked.
> 'Eh, what?' said Tom sitting up, and his eyes glinting in the gloom. 'Don't you know my name yet? That's the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless? But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'
> TFotR - In the House of Tom Bombadil


I mean "Oldest and Fatherless" is not a bad name for someone with such a biography...


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## Legolam (May 27, 2002)

What about all his other names? What do they mean? The only one I can remember at the moment is Orald by the dwarves.


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## BluestEye (May 27, 2002)

This is what I asked a number of times on this thread, Legolam, and it seems nobody knows, or is too shy to answear  

Anyway, I will look for Tom's other names ("Forn for the Dwarves; Yárë for the Elves, and Iaur ; Erion for the Gnomes; Eldest for men") when I return home from my work this evening.

Wish me luck  

Bluest Eye


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## Lantarion (May 27, 2002)

Good luck Bluest, but we were actually looking for explanations for the *latest* published names of Tom Bombadil, not something from the HoME.


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## BluestEye (May 28, 2002)

Latest such as what, Pontifex my friend  

BluestEye


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## Lantarion (May 28, 2002)

Sorry, I meant like in the LotR. I don't recall there being any mention of 'Gnomes' in the books.


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## 7doubles (May 28, 2002)

"the hord" is a great song\poem.


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## Lantarion (May 28, 2002)

Umm.. ´What does "The Horde" have to do with Tom Bombadil?


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## 7doubles (May 28, 2002)

it is in his adventures after "the stone troll".


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## falcolite (Sep 22, 2002)

quite interesting topic you folks have stumbled upon, keep it up!


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## Leto (Sep 24, 2002)

Jewish? Name aside, Ol' Tom seems more like a Taoist immortal to me... Jolly demeanor, without a care in the world, at one with nature...goldberry says 'he is.' singing all day long...' He screams all day without becoming hoarse. This is perfect harmony.'


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## Phantom (Jun 5, 2004)

Tom couldn't be Jewish because there was no Jewish religion back in Middle Earth. Come to think of it, I don't recall any mention of religion at all (at least in LOTR and The Hobbit).


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 5, 2004)

This is one of the most original and entertaining threads I've read in quite a while! But nobody has addressed the question of Bombadil's Jewishness from the ceremonial standpoint: _Was he circumcised? Did he have a briss?_ 

If so, that would mean that somewhere in Middle-earth there was a moyel (a rabbi trained to do ritual circumcision) around to do the job. If we have a moyel then we have to have a whole Orthodox community to which he belonged and in which he functioned! If so, they are a complete mystery because Tolkien never mentioned them. 

Did Bombadil and his Lady Goldberry (a suspiciously Jewish-sounding name) celebrate the Jewish Holy Days? Did they keep kosher? The questions are endless...

Tolkien does mention Jews in his collected letters. Here are some selected passages:

(From Letter #156)

The Numenoreans...began a great new good, and as monotheists; but like the Jews (only more so) with only one physical centre of 'worship': the summit of the mountain of Meltarma 'Pillar of Heaven' — literally, for they did not conceive of the sky as a divine residence..."

(From Letter #30)

Dear Sirs,
Thank you for your letter.....I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by _arisch._ I am not of _Aryan_ extraction: that is Indo-iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of _Jewish_ origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have _no_ ancestors of that gifted people.

But most to the point:

(From Letter #176)

[This in relation to a broadcast adaptation of LOTR]

...I thought that the Dwarf (Gloin not Gimli, but I suppose Gimli will look like his father — apparently someone's idea of a German) was not too bad, if a bit exaggerated. I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue...

===============================

So Tolkien thought that Jews and Dwarves had more to compare than Jews to Bombadil. Also, since Bombadil was "the oldest," the implication is that he had no parents since he was "there since the beginning." And with no (Jewish) parents, no briss! 

I think the whole thing is, as someone suggested, that some of the words invented by Tolkien have a mild and passing resemblance to some Hebrew words, although they are more based in Finnish and Old English.

Abi gezint!

Barley


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## spaceboy (Jun 10, 2004)

*JRRT's racial analogies*

I was reading a radio interview conducted with prof Tolkien and came across an interesting point that is somewhat related to this thread. He was mentioning how the dwarves are based (loosley I am supposing) on the Jewish peoples, and the hobbits are symbolic of the English, small (in imagination) but huge in heart. I don't have the link at this sec but if you guys are interested I'll post it as soon as I get home.


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## Starbrow (Jun 10, 2004)

Hi spaceboy,
I would be very interested in reading that interview script. Please post it.
Thanks.


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## Eledhwen (Jun 12, 2004)

You asked whether Tolkien knew Hebrew.

He translated the book of Jonah for the New Jerusalem Bible (a Roman Catholic Bible). It's possible he used the Septuagint, but I would expect such an incorrigible philologist to refer to the original Hebrew.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 14, 2004)

Eledhwen said:


> You asked whether Tolkien knew Hebrew.
> 
> He translated the book of Jonah for the New Jerusalem Bible (a Roman Catholic Bible). It's possible he used the Septuagint, but I would expect such an incorrigible philologist to refer to the original Hebrew.



I always loved the Book of Jonah — it's a _whale_ of a story!

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Jun 14, 2004)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> I always loved the Book of Jonah — it's a _whale_ of a story!
> 
> Barley


Aaaargh!

I read Tolkien's translation of Jonah, hoping for some flair that did not exist in other translations. Alas, he was probably too keen to be accurate. Still, I bet he could retell most of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) adventure stories better than most who've made a living out of it.


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## spaceboy (Jun 14, 2004)

*JRRT Interview*

Hi Starbrow,

Sorry it took so long but my internet has been hit by some Black Breath! Here's the link:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/5014/interview.html


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 14, 2004)

I myself don't like this idea. 

The Hobbit's named him an English name... 

Ben-Adar ... Is it possible that every single elvish phrase with 'Ben' in it or 'Adar' automaticalyl asumes a jewish backwround? 

I know that Tolkien rooted his languages in other European languages, but from what I can remember none of them were from Hebrew backrdounds.

And even if by some strange happenings, It is meant to be a name of Hebrew backround... that wouldn't make Tom himself Jewish, because simply there was no Judaism in Middle-Earth.


Tom Bombadil was NOT Jewish. His name may (by a slim chance) have a Jewish backround, but that would not make Tom Jewish


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## Matthew Bailey (Oct 3, 2021)

This was an interesting thread to stumble upon.

I feel a bit guilty about the thread necromancy, especially given Tolkien’s negative feelings about necromancy as a whole (Sorcery, “Magic,” the occult, etc.).

But to add a comment regarding “Iarwain.”

It means more than “Oldest,” it is a portmanteau of “Old” and “Young” (seeing as I stumbled across this thread, the sources are not readily at hand, but given Tom Bombadil is something of an annoying obsession of mine — where people keep saying “He is a Mystery“ and such things, when his identity is made clear as a bell *IFF* you happen to catch the references Tolkien gives us, which are the obscurest-of-obscure, and the arcanest-of-arcane, making it such that few will happen to have the luxury of exploring the respective sources involved, which are quite distant to Tolkien‘s work, itself).

So ”Tom Bombadil” is the “Oldest/Youngest Son of None/No–one.”

The respective sources do have quite the connection to Judaism, as some of those sources are connected to Kabbalistic traditions, and Judaic Genesis Myths, which it’s very likely that Tolkien would have been familiar with himself.

The specific Academic Domain of Myth Studies would call Tom Bombadil a _Protoplast_ (distinct from the term as it is used in Biology in reference to the cells of plants that have had the cell-walls stripped from them. Plant Cells differ from Animal Cells by having _both_ a cell membrane *and* a cell wall, the latter of which the animal cells lack), which is, in Mythology, either the “First Man” or the “First Life/Spirit” to exist in a Universe that arises spontaneously of the explicit event of Creation.

Typically the _Protoplast_ is the “inventor of Speech,” or he/she/it is the “namer of the world” (The Protoplast gives the “True Name” of everything in existence, if we are dealing with a Platonic Metaphysics in the Mythology. Alternately the Protoplast is just the revealer of “_That which *is*_,” which can include the names of things, but can also include other forms of revelation).

Tolkien likely would not have known that term for Tom. But the Mythological Concept predates the modern term for the form, which was only applied to such mythological beings in the Mid-to-Late-20th Century. But this does not negate Tom Bombadil’s Identity as an emergent “Spirit/Life” as the “First Living Thing” in Middle-earth, despite not being an “intentional creation” of either Eru or any Ainur from the Ainulindalë.

_The Adventures of Tom Bombadil_ provide other such clues, as does Galdor’s comment during the Council of Elrond:





> ‘I know little of Iarwain save the name,’ said Galdor; ‘but Glorfindel, I think, is right. Power to defy our Enemy is not in him, unless such power is in the earth itself.




“Unless such power is in the earth itself” gives us a hint to Tom’s origins, and the source of his “being.” Gandalf tells us that Tom has no “Power,” but rather that things such as the Ruling Ring have no power over him. *That* is a *VERY different thing!*.

Anyway, Iarwen Ben-Adar is like MANY of Tolkien’s linguistic “tricks“ a name that has a source in _multiple languages_. It is this primarily to which I refer above about not having the sources handy regarding Tom’s Identity, as it was well over a decade ago that I “stumbled” upon Tom’s Identity after being ridiculed (friendly ridicule) by a professor at UCLA with whom I am acquainted when I used the “Tom’s identity is a Mystery” response regarding Tom, when he had said “If you think Tom’s identity is a Mystery, then you are lucky his identity isn’t a viper, as you would have been bitten and died from standing atop it.” 

But Hebrew was/is one of the languages used to construct Iarwen Ben-Adar, as is Old English, Finnish/Uralic, and a handful of other related Germanic Languages. And the collection of them, combined with the mythological associations, gives us a pretty clear picture of Tom Bombadil as the “Emergent Spirit of _What Is_ within Arda and Middle-earth,” and the _first_ of such *multitudinous* emergent spirits (Goldberry’s Father, at the very least is another such Spirit. Ungoliant is *very likely* to be another, and whether accidental of not, she represents the nihilistic opposite of Tom: being the consuming spirit of darkness, destruction, and gluttonous lust; an abyss that can never be filled, and which negates everything). 

MB



Eledhwen said:


> Aaaargh!
> 
> I read Tolkien's translation of Jonah, hoping for some flair that did not exist in other translations. Alas, he was probably too keen to be accurate. Still, I bet he could retell most of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) adventure stories better than most who've made a living out of it.



It is something of a curiosity that sadly cannot now be answered. But Tolkien’s religious devotion and obsession with accuracy might have interfered with a retelling of the Old Testament’s stories in a more “heroic” fashion.

Over the last decade, I have been looking into the debate that existed within Catholicism between the _First and Second Vatican Ecumenical Councils_, or what has become known as _Vatican I_ and _Vatican II_. 

These two ecumenical councils represent polar opposites of Theology. The first “affirming” a Biblical Literacy and Inerrancy, and condemning Modernity, the Sciences, and the growing power of _The State_ (bemoaning the collapse of the European Aristocracy as a footnote). While the second is a kind of ’retraction’ of these, saying instead “maybe we were a little too reactionary, and threw the baby out with the bath-water?”

The first would represent a “No deviation from the Literal Text” of the Bible, while the latter would represent a “Hey! Let’s have fun with this” approach to the same text. 

Obviously that is a gross oversimplification, but it does represent two opposing “sides” to Tolkien that we see manifested at different times; the first usually arising when a subject is broached that causes Tolkien some discomfort and intellectual confusion in addressing, while the second is when Tolkien feels safe with a subject, where theological paradoxes and conundrums are not likely to be hidden as land-mines to be accidentally trodden upon.

MB


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## Olorgando (Oct 3, 2021)

Legolam said:


> What about all his other names? What do they mean? The only one I can remember at the moment is Orald by the dwarves.


Not quite:


Walter said:


> Whether Tom Bomabdil was Jewish or not I do not know. The name you are referring to is mentioned in TFotR - The Council of Elrond:
> 
> 
> > “I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old. That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless. But many another name he has since been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, *Orald by Northern Men*, and other names beside."
> > [CoE P258]


BluestEye then answered Legolam's post with:


BluestEye said:


> This is what I asked a number of times on this thread, Legolam, and it seems nobody knows, or is too shy to answer


At least for "Orald" I can contribute a farthing (that's one quarter of a penny):
modern German has the adjective "uralt", which simply means *extremely* old.
As the Rohirrim are strongly based on the Anglo-Saxons (with a pinch of more of the Goths for the cavalry), and are said to be related to, in part descended from the Northern Men, that would make the latter some undefined tribe in northern Germany and / or southern Scandinavia, which in early times included the Goths before they started on their southward migration (not the only Germanic tribe to do so, much to the discomfort of the Romans).


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