# Turgon's ships



## Elendil3119 (May 23, 2003)

> Thus I came last of the messengers to Círdan; and of the seven ships that he built at Turgon's asking all but one were then full-wrought. And one by one they set sail into the West, and none yet has ever returned, nor has any news of them been heard.*(Unfinished Tales)*


What happened to the other six ships that Turgon had Cirdan build? Did they make it to the West? 


> And I feared not, for the ships of the Teleri no water may drown. *(Unfinished Tales)*


Obviously, they did not drown in a storm or something, but does it say anywhere what happened to them?


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## Beleg (May 23, 2003)

*Grey Annals*


> But when Turgon learned of the breaking of the leaguer of Angband, he sent secret messengers to the mouths of Sirion and to the Isle of Balar and there they built many swift ships. Thence many set sail upon Turgon's errand, seeking for Valinor, to ask for pardon and for aid-of the Valar, but none came ever to the West and few returned.


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## Niniel (May 24, 2003)

I suppose they were stranded on the Magic Isles (is that the name in the Sil? I'm reading the HOME now and I get totally confused by all the islands that were between the Outer lands and Valinor... Enchanted isles, Twilit isles, Magic isles... confusing!!!) Anyway, I mean the islands that were set there after the Hiding of Valinor, where sailors get stranded and sleep forever.


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## Inderjit S (May 24, 2003)

Since Osse operated under Namo's doom against the Noldor then the ships wouldn't have made it, they would have been sunk. Beleg the quote you used from the _Grey Annals_ is most problably a earlier version and it may have been revised, since in the _Quenta Silmarillion_ it says:



> And when Turgon heard of this he sent again his messengers to Sirion's mouth....at the bidding of Turgon Cirdan built seven swift ships, and they sailed out into the west; but no tidings of them ever came to Balar, save on one, and the last.....



This was the ship of Voronwe, and he was the only survivors. This also fit's in with Ulmo's words to Tuor in _Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin_ (U.T) about him saving one person/ship from Osse's wrath.

Remember the Noldor were _banned_ from returing to Aman, and show their ships would've been sunk in Osse's wrath, as we can see from _Last Writings_ (HoME 12) it was difficult or impossible even for the Teleri's ships to reach Aman;



> But even as he said this he recieved in his heart a message, which he knew came from the Valar...and the voice warned him not to attempt this peril; for hsi strength and skill would not be able to build ships to dare the winds and great waves of the sea for many years



This 'great peril' was about Cirdan's desire to go to Aman and so if Cirdan even here coudln't cross the sea, then doesn't it give you the impression that it was impossible? If one of the greatest ship-wright's of all time couldn't do it, then what chance did Noldor have even though Cirdan built their ships?


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## Elendil3119 (May 24, 2003)

But was it even possible for the ships of the Teleri to be drowned?


> And I feared not, for the ships of the Teleri no water may drown. *(Unfinished Tales)*


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## Inderjit S (May 25, 2003)

> But was it even possible for the ships of the Teleri to be drowned?
> 
> 
> > 1. Lot's of Telerin ships were sunk due to Uinen's wrath against the Noldor after the kinslaying.
> ...


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