# WHOA?! Finrod walks with Finarfin?!



## childoferu (Jul 2, 2009)

Of Finrod Felagund's Death:

"...They buried the body of Felagund upon the hill-top of his own isle, and it was clean again; and the green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained inviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under destroying seas. But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar."

So after he died, he was back in Valinor with his father? I thought the dead go to the Timeless Halls


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## Bucky (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't feel like looking up all the quotes now (sick with a cold & a blood clot too)  but the whole deal in a nutshell is that repentent Elves who died 'in time' could return to Arda if they wished.......

I guess also that the amount of evil commited while alive played iunto it too, but repentance was the key.

So, Finrod & Glorfindel returned, but Feanor, there's a quote in The Simarillion that 'Mandos long held him'.


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## Illuin (Jul 5, 2009)

Blood clot? Bucky, what's up?  Get well my friend.



> Originally posted by *childoferu*
> _So after he died, he was back in Valinor with his father? I thought the dead go to the Timeless Halls_


 
There are a number of places where this is discussed in detail _(i.e. HoME Volume X - aka Morgoth's Ring - p. 361-366)_. Here is a good one found in a c. 1972 essay:



> *'Glorfindel II' - The Peoples of Middle-earth - HoME Volume XII *
> 
> *When Glorfindel of Gondolin was slain his spirit would according to the laws established by the One be obliged at once to return to the land of the Valar. Then he would go to Mandos and be judged, and would then remain in the 'Halls of Waiting' until Manwë granted him release. Elves were destined to be 'immortal', that is not to die within the unknown limits decreed by the One, which at the most could be until the end of the life of the Earth as a habitable realm. Their death—by any injury to their bodies so severe that it could not be healed—and the disembodiment of their spirits was an 'unnatural' and grevious matter. It was there fore the duty of the Valar, by command of the One, to restone them to incarnate life, if they desired it. But this 'restoration' could be delayed by Manwë, if the fëa while alive had done evil deeds and refused to repent of them, or still harboured any malice against any other person among the living.*


 
_*'The Shibboleth of Fëanor'*_ _(The Peoples of Middle-earth - HoME Volume XII)_, discusses the death of Míriel - Finwë's first wife. She refused to be re-embodied and return to life (a first and last occurrence of this). Finwë waited for a long time for her to return, but eventually took a new wife. This caused a ruckus among the Valar. When Finwë remarried, Míriel could no longer return since the Eldar aren't allowed to have two _'living'_ spouses.

In Tolkien's earlier work, Elves were said to be reborn into their children after they died. This was later rejected:




> *'Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth' - Morgoth's Ring - HoME Volume X*
> 
> _*A hastily written manuscript on small slips of paper, entitled "Reincarnation of Elves", seems to shoe my father's reflections on the subject between the abandonment of the Converse of Manwë and Eru and the Commentary to the Athrabeth. In the discussion he refered in rapid and ellitical expression to the difficultied at every level (including practical and physchological) in the idea of the reincarnation of the fëa as the newborn of second parents, who as it grows up recaptures the memory of its previous life: 'the most fatal objection' being that it 'contradicts the fundamental notion that fëa and hröa*_ _*were fitted to each other: since hroar have a physical descent, the body of rebirth, having different parents, must be different', and this must be a condition of pain to the reborn fëa.*_


 
The _"rebirth"_ idea was tossed in favor of the _"re-embodiment"_ idea. Elves were given new bodies by the Valar. 

_*"...after a time of reflection and cleansing in the Halls of Mandos all elves would be rehoused in an exact facsimile of their previous body; which could be made from the imprint it had on the fëa, thus the union of unique hröa *_*(body) and fëa (soul) could be maintained."*


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## childoferu (Jul 6, 2009)

thanks guys


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## Mimzy (Jun 11, 2011)

Bucky said:


> So, Finrod & Glorfindel returned, but Feanor, there's a quote in The Simarillion that 'Mandos long held him'.


 
I'm pretty sure Mandos held him until the end of days. Though at least he was with Finwe so he probably wasn't totally unhappy there. Hell, Feanor might have chosen to stay in Mandos.


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