# Are there any left?



## Tar-Minyatur (Dec 16, 2002)

Does anyone know if there are any elves that are still alive from the time of the awakening to the time when lord of the rings takes place?


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## Celebthôl (Dec 16, 2002)

yes there were, almost all of the elves in Valinor are from the awakening, i also believe (although it may not be true, it is neither said for or against) that Círdan was one of those from the awakening, he is certainly the oldest elve in middle earth!

Thôl


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *yes there were, almost all of the elves in Valinor are from the awakening, i also believe (although it may not be true, it is neither said for or against) that Círdan was one of those from the awakening, he is certainly the oldest elve in middle earth!
> 
> Thôl *


What about Galadriel,or she was born in Valinor later?......Yeah she was born later..you're right Cirdan is the oldest elf in Me.


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## Confusticated (Dec 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TLOTR _
> *Does anyone know if there are any elves that are still alive from the time of the awakening to the time when lord of the rings takes place? *


None of the elves named are known to have been among those who awoke at Cuivienen. But in Aman there may be some elves that were among those who first woke at Cuivienen.

And as far as I know none of the elves named in Middle-earth during the third age are strongly suspected of being/ nor is there evidence that they were among the first. This is not to say that none of those who awake by the lake remain in Middle-earth, just that they aren't known if so.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: Are there any left?*



> _Originally posted by Nóm _
> *None of the elves named are known to have been among those who awoke at Cuivienen. But in Aman there should certainly be some elves that were among those who first woke at Cuivienen.
> 
> And as far as I know none of the elves named in Middle-earth during the third age are strongly suspected of being/ nor is there evidence that they were among the first. *


So,you mean Cirdan is not among those who awake at Cuivienen?Then who is older Galadriel or Cirdan?


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## Tar-Minyatur (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re:Re:Re: Are there any left?*

what i meant was are there any left that are mentioned in the Sil, but as far as i can see there arent any I dont think Cirdan awoke either


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: Re:Re:Re: Are there any left?*



> _Originally posted by TLOTR _
> *what i meant was are there any left that are mentioned in the Sil, but as far as i can see there arent any I dont think Cirdan awoke either *


Yes there are.Elrond,his sons,Cirdan,Galadriel,Celeborn,Glorfindel.........


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## Link (Dec 21, 2002)

Elves who awoke a Cuivienen:

Vanyar:

Ingwe-(still living in Valinor, High King of the Elves, sits beneath Manwe in the Golden Halls on Taniquetil)

Noldor:

Finwe-(first High King of the Noldor, father of Feanor, Fingolfin, and Finarfin, slain at Formenos by Melkor, was re-embodied and now walks again in Valinor)

Teleri:

Elwe-(later named Thingol, King of Doriath, married Melian, daughter was luthien, I think he died trying to regain a necklace bearing a silmaril in Nogrod,the dwarf-realm, and was slain by the dwarves (which is why dwarves and elves want to bash each other's faces in))

Olwe-(Elwe's brother, guided the rest of the Teleri to Valinor, still lives in Valinor ( I think)


Cirdan-(you all know who this is)


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## Tar-Minyatur (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re:Re:Re: Are there any left?*



> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *Yes there are.Elrond,his sons,Cirdan,Galadriel,Celeborn,Glorfindel......... *



Wow... I didnt know Elrond awoke at Cuivienen  I must have read a different Silmarillion Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin and Earwen, and it is not mentioned for or against if Cirdan awoke. I wondered if there were any elves that lived in Beleriand and are in the Sil that awoke at Cuivienen and are still alive.


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## Link (Dec 21, 2002)

TLOTR, he wasn't saying Elrond awoke at Cuivienen, he was stating what elves were left in ME that had lived in Beleriand.

Cirdan was the only elf who awoke in Ciuvienen and still dwelt in ME.

Elrond, Galadriel and all those others never awoke at Cuivienen


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## Tar-Minyatur (Dec 21, 2002)

Sorry bout that, I think i got a little confused there  Do we know for sure that Cirdan awoke?


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re:Re:Re: Are there any left?*



> _Originally posted by TLOTR _
> *Wow... I didnt know Elrond awoke at Cuivienen  I must have read a different Silmarillion Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin and Earwen, and it is not mentioned for or against if Cirdan awoke. I wondered if there were any elves that lived in Beleriand and are in the Sil that awoke at Cuivienen and are still alive. *


Sorry,but it is my mistake.I understood you wanted to know who are the elves who lived during I and II ages and in IIIages.
So Link is right,only Cirdan awoke at Cuivienen.


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## morello13 (Dec 21, 2002)

144 awoke, 72 couples, if somebody or their spouse has a mother or father or brother or sister, they coulndt have awoken, understood?
i am not sure of cirdans relations so i dont know about him.


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## Confusticated (Dec 22, 2002)

Link, where did you read that Cirdan (also Finwe Elwe ingwe) awoke at Cuivienen?


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## Link (Dec 22, 2002)

Nom, it never actually says that Cirdan awoke at Cuivienen (at least it doesn't in the Silmarillion). However, we can all easily assume he did, b/c when the elves who awoke were traveling to the Undying Lands, it says that some broke off from the group, and remained in Beleriand. Now, I can't remember EXACTLY where, but I believe Cirdan broke off and remained in Falas, perhaps he dwelt in Brithombar. (That's off the top of my head)

Check out where Falas is here: (It's on the coast)

http://www.readwryt.com/beleriand/main.htm

Anway, Here's your answer, just look up Cirdan in the "C" section:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm


Check at the top of the page, where it says the dates:


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## morello13 (Dec 22, 2002)

it is possible that cirdan awoke depending on his spouse
but i always thought the elves who made the great journey were form the ones of the awkening and others not form the awakeing as they had dwelled in middle earth for a while, basically im saying that just b/c somebody was on the great journey, they did not nesseccarily awake


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## Confusticated (Dec 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Link _
> *Nom, it never actually says that Cirdan awoke at Cuivienen (at least it doesn't in the Silmarillion). However, we can all easily assume he did, b/c when the elves who awoke were traveling to the Undying Lands, it says that some broke off from the group, and remained in Beleriand. Now, I can't remember EXACTLY where, but I believe Cirdan broke off and remained in Falas, perhaps he dwelt in Brithombar. (That's off the top of my head)
> *


I do not see how we can easily assume that Cirdan awoke at Cuivienen.
But much time went by between the awakening and the discovery of the firstborn by Orome.
Not all of the elves who started out on the journey west would have been among the first to awaken by the lake.
We know that some of the elves near Cuivienen were taken by Morgoth, and more fled when Orome arrived, so we do not know what percentage of the original remained when the elves decided to travel to Aman.
While I think that Finwe, and the other leaders may have awoken at Cuivienen, I read nothing in The Silmarillion that proves that they did. Same with Cirdan. There may be something in HoMe that names some of our known elves as being among those to awaken by the lake, but I have not read it. 

I wonder if some people think that all the elves who took up the journey to Aman were the first to awaken? If so, why think this?

Also, I did look up Cirdan in that encyclopedia, it doesn't say anything that i didn't already know, it says that he was perhaps among the firstrborn, but not that he was.
I am not saying that what you said in you post above is untrue, I only ask where you read this because you presented it as though you know it to be true. Whereas I am of the thought that none of our known elves were certainly of the first to awaken. So maybe you've read something that I have not.


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## gate7ole (Dec 22, 2002)

There is no explicit mention anywhere in HOME or other published work about the elves that first awoke at Cuivienen. Círdan is considered by many the oldest elf of ME but deducing that he awoke (and was not born) is IMO wrong, without any further info. Personally I’m against this statement. I believe Círdan didn’t awake at Cuivienen. Since all of the awaken had a spouse and Círdan doesn’t seem to have one (or miss a lost one), it implies that he gave his heart only to the sea and never had a wife. Moreover, there were only 144 original elves. The chance that Círdan is one of them is very limited. I believe he was 2nd or even 3rd generation elf.

So, do we know any of these elves that awoke? Again I will speculate. I believe that Ingwë and Finwë were such elves. Why is it? Because they were leaders of the two clans and the most probable choice for a leader was the older i.e. one who awoke. Even if the original leaders (called First, Second and Third in HOME) were slain or lost, they would be replaced probably by another of the awoken. About Elwë and Olwë I’m not so sure since they are called brothers. How can it be if they were not born? Wouldn’t then all elves who awoke be brothers? So, my final assumption is that Ingwë at least is an alive elf who awoke at Cuivienen.


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