# The age of Frodo



## Snaga (Apr 14, 2004)

Here's a very simple question that occurs to me. Why do you think Tolkien chose to make Frodo 50, and therefore so clearly older than the other 3 hobbits?

Do you think he acts like the eldest hobbit? I think probably not. Merry seems to behave more maturely and responsibly.

In human terms his 50 equates to being in his 30s as opposed to the others who are teens (Pippin) or twenties (Merry and Sam). But whereas many people find themselves to be wanting to explore the world in their youth and settling down in their thirties, Frodo is the reverse. Bilbo at the same age had almost lost his Tookishness.

Umm... DISCUSS!!!

(Is this question lame?)


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## Capitan Pirata (Apr 14, 2004)

I think Tolkien gives a lot of importance to age in his characters, I mean, I would say all LOTR characters are old, but the ones who are older represent more wisdom, courage , more respect, more power.
Frodo had to be the older hobbit, coz he was the one with such an important mission  , such a big problem on his shoulder. For me he was just ok, he represent the older hobbit, bearing with strenght the evil of the ring.
And Pippin, as the youngest: he represent the unexperience, maybe be a little bit of irresponsibility.
Something like that


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## Inderjit S (Apr 14, 2004)

Is age really important? Túrin, Tuor, Húrin, and Huor were pretty "young" heroes, or at least they achieved amazing feats when they were young. But then again they were exceptions. Tolkien also stresses how the Elves, who stayed "young" for a long time (compared to Men) and that their "childhood" years were the best of their lives. Dwarves such as Dáin Ironfoot II were also marked out as brilliant "youths". The Númenórean desire for immortality meant that gradually their life-spans shortened, because of their perfidious deeds-is Tolkien showing that as their wisdom decreased their age followed? The Gondorian age decline was also worrying, as they lost their Númenórean "blood" and because of the effect of them being separated from their now destroyed home-land. They were becoming 'middle-men' as Faramir points out to Frodo. As their ages increased the Valar became more "impotent" then before. Is there any significance in this? Aragorn states that he is wise enough to be trusted with Gandalf's wisdom and knowledge. He mentions his age as a factor in his "wisdom". According to some men, men's life-spans were shortened because of their Morgoth worship, which acted as an anathema to their "nature". They were "cursed" with earlier deaths so that they could "absolve" (in a way) from their Morgoth-worship and admit who the real god is. 

I think a "mature" Frodo would have been better then an immature one. I think a immature protagonist would have wrecked the storyline. I think Frodo is a lot wiser then Merry. Gandalf and Bilbo thought him "the best hobbit in the Shire." He was a lot more worldly and the other hobbits and events like the barrow-wight, Weathertop and him being the ring-bearer help crystallise his wisdom. Faramir comments on Frodo's "wisdom" as opposed to Sam's rather impetous "folly" him and Goldberry both notice the aura of "elvishness" which he exudes.


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 14, 2004)

I think Frodo was quite mature, if a little inexperienced with the world at large (yet more experienced than your average hobbit). I guess he would also be more prone to 'waver' in comparison to Merry, since it was Frodo who bore this incredibly hefty burden that weighed him down on more than one occasion, his very ability to reason was clouded by the evil whispers of the Ring.


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## Snaga (Apr 14, 2004)

I know what Gandalf and Bilbo thought, Indy. But it doesn't always seem borne out by the facts.

Frodo seems to take a very near-sighted approach to everything. Walking across country in the Shire for fun (although that was fortuitous). The prancing on the table at the Prancing Pony. Even trying to use the ring to trick Bombadil. He seems to have a big Tookish streak. He is under pressure, but he doesn't display much pragmatism. Even at Rivendell he doesn't properly study the maps.

Merry, by contrast sorts out Crickhollow, organises the conspiracy; more or less leads the hobbits through the Old Forest; stays out of the Common Room at Bree; and has studied the maps well enough to be able to explain to Pippin where Fangorn is.

I am of course not arguing that Frodo doesn't show his worth. But his approach is naive. Could it be due to his pampered lifestyle in Bag End? There is not much sign he has to face too many real life problems before.


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## Garwen (Apr 15, 2004)

*Frodo's age*

Frodo pranced upon the table at the Prancing Pony because he was distracting the crowd at the Inn from Pippin telling the story of Bilbo's farewell party and Frodo was worried that Pippin would mention Bilbos disapearance, reminding some of them of the name of Baggins. Frodo was not only prompted to do so by Strider but he was asked to sing by the patrons of the Inn. 
Tom Bombadil asked Frodo to give him the Ring.Tom placed the Ring around the end of his little finger.but did not disappear. When Tom gave the Ring back to Frodo, Frodo was suspicious as to whether it was the same Ring so he slipped on the Ring to make sure and was amused that it was.
Bilbo was Tookish on his fathers side, therefore Frodo is Tookish as well.
And it was Pippin who did not study Maps. In The Ring Goes South, Pippin wonders why the mountains are ahead of them. Gandalf explains to Pippin of his error and says to him: 'There are many maps in Elrond's house but I suppose you never thought to look at them?' Pippin replies: 'Yes I did sometimes but I don't remember them. Frodo has a better head for that sort of thing.


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## Lindir (Apr 16, 2004)

I think Frodo was probably quite mature, but without first hand knowledge of the world. He is described as being a well educated hobbit and for this purpose he really has to be older than the other hobbits. 
The main difference between him and Merry is that Frodo is a thinker and Merry is the practical one, which I think is possible to be without being the more mature. It really depends on what one considers to constitute maturity in the first place.


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## Snaga (Apr 16, 2004)

Frodo later realises it was foolish to go and socialise at Bree at all. As for Strider recommending that Frodo stop Pippin's blathering, I doubt he meant by drawing even more attention to himself. Who knows...

As for the thing about maps, Frodo is shown maps but doesn't pay much attention. He prefers to leave things to Aragorn and Gandalf, perhaps understandably.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 16, 2004)

Merry's little walk around Bree was no less impetuous, but certainly understandable since 1. even if he had thought of the black riders attacking (and considering that fact that Tom claims that the Riders would not attack tonight, though he was by no means infallible) he wouldn't have been as afraid of the riders as Pippin and co. and. 2. the fact that the Brandybucks weren't exactly unfriendly towards the Breelanders, there were several marriages etc between the two, though of course the interaction between the two places wasn't as frequent as before. Well at least none of them were as xenophobic as Sam.  

But you must remember that the inn was recommended by Bombadil and so Frodo and co. would have entered with a certain degree of naïveté or at least trusting the Breelanders as being an intrinsically 'good' peoples. Since most Hobbits distrusted 'outsiders' or didn't travel much (despite living in the East farthing Fatty had never been over the Brandywine) it certainly shows the dexterity of Frodo and co. to go into the inn, no matter how naive or silly it was in retrospect. Merry's excuse for not going into the Inn-room was that it would be "too stuffy", he does however warn the hobbits to be careful of what they say or do in the inn, orders that Frodo follows, to the point of being ostracized by the Breelanders because of he wasn't very communicative, only having to rescue Pippin when he begins to get a little bit too sociable. (and drunk) Even then it was an "accident", accidents happen, no matter how wise the person is. Even more alarmingly, when discussing the “accident” Aragorn vaguely alludes to some kind of “outside force” playing a part in the incident at the Prancing Pony. If so, is this any different from Merry being "drawn too" the shadow close to Ferny's house? Frodo thought the riders had (if only temporarily) given up the chase. Make you can claim that Frodo should have listened more carefully to Gildor’s words ('my heart tells me that you will know more about these riders then me', he should have known that the riders would not be that easily put off) and also Bombadil's comments on the Riders. Maybe he should have kept closer track of Gandalf's comments on the "Ringwraiths" and "Aragorn", it is surprising that he didn’t remember Aragorn, or put two and two together about the riders, but then again he hadn’t, as of yet met “nine” riders and he would have had a lot more on his mind at the time. So Frodo may have felt it safe to go to the "friendly" inn, possibly to find out any news of either the riders or Gandalf or of the road ahead. 


On the ring-incident-the ring would have effected Frodo's judgement. Remember the ring made the possessor possessive over it, and so Frodo would have been worried that about what Bombadil may have done to the ring. Is it any different from Isildur claiming the ring as a heirloom for his father and brother? The ring is a powerful force, probably the most powerful force in Middle-Earth-can you really except the then inexperienced Frodo to control his emotions over the ring? 

He was walking around the Shire for a simple reason-because he didn’t expect any “trouble” in the Shire. A tad naïve maybe, but unrestrainble. 

Good point on Merry’s astuteness and foresight in looking at the maps beforehand. Maybe Frodo relied to heavily on fate and Gandalf and co. too much. 

Certainly by the end of the novel Frodo’s wisdom has become crystallised. I think he is on “another level” to the hobbits by then, due to his experiences. Notice the heterogeneous attitudes of the Hobbits with regards to the despotic men who had taken over the Shire and Saruman. Frodo is certainly as lot more pacifying then the bellicose hobbits, though their anger is of course justified and understand. But Frodo’s real triumph for me, is when he competently deals with Saruman. Even Saruman respects Frodo, since whilst the other hobbits are baying for his blood Frodo understand that killing him will do no good, but will only lead to greater evil. Maybe my assertion that Frodo was on “another level” from Merry and co. in terms of wisdom is a bit over the top, but do you really think Merry and co. would act in a similar way?

Frodo's life at Bag End may have been pampered, as you say. But he still went out a lot. He knew Sindarin (and a bit of Quenya, but his Sindarin was still pretty 'raw' since he thought the Sindarin spoke by the Elves in Lorien was another language) and he used to question Dwarves about what was going on in the world, wheras most Hobbits nobly ignored them. Merry and Pippin even thought he visited Elves, but as the meeting with Gildor shows, he didn't, or at least he didn't visiit that group of Elves, though he does know that some Elves travelled through the Shire at times to get to the havens,


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## HLGStrider (Apr 18, 2004)

I think the age was for a different reason.

Frodo is given a childhood, a time of peace, a time of innocence, a time to firmly entrench him in the ways of the lovely, peaceful, quaint Shire before he has to face the world.

For one thing it is more kind to the main character to do this.

For another it gives him a base, a foundation, that makes him stronger.

Bilbo's age was just a way of solidifying that he never had adventures. You take a twenty-year-old hobbit and say he never had adventures, it's probably because he's twenty. A hobbit of forty has had a chance to have some.

Why are the other's younger then?

Well, what they are facing isn't so hard. They'll have the Shire when they get back. Frodo had it before. They don't need the foundation to face what they face. Their own wits will serve them better.


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## Garwen (Apr 19, 2004)

*Frodo's age*

I know so Tolkien said so .Try reading the books


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## Inderjit S (Apr 19, 2004)

If there title of the topic at hand was "What is/what was" the age of Frodo or something similair, then you're joke would have worked a lot better.


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## Ravenna (May 3, 2004)

The anti-aging effect of the Ring may also be a factor. Gandalf comments that Frodo retained the


> appearance of a robust and energetic Hobbit just out of his tweens,


This wouldn't have been noticeable in a younger Hobbit, but as Frodo had reached an age where hobbits normally begin to settle down and get somewhat staid, it was therefore a factor which added to Gandalf's suspicion about the Ring.
How much should be made of the parallel between the age at which adventure came upon both Frodo and Bilbo I'm not sure, but it is there, and is certainly a fact to be considered.


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## Grond (May 23, 2004)

Ravenna said:


> The anti-aging effect of the Ring may also be a factor. Gandalf comments that Frodo retained the
> 
> This wouldn't have been noticeable in a younger Hobbit, but as Frodo had reached an age where hobbits normally begin to settle down and get somewhat staid, it was therefore a factor which added to Gandalf's suspicion about the Ring.
> How much should be made of the parallel between the age at which adventure came upon both Frodo and Bilbo I'm not sure, but it is there, and is certainly a fact to be considered.


All of you are wrong. Frodo was the age he was because Tolkien created him that way so that he would celebrate his 33rd birthday at the same time as Bilbo celebrated his 111th.


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## Beorn (May 23, 2004)

Grond said:


> All of you are wrong. Frodo was the age he was because Tolkien created him that way so that he would celebrate his 33rd birthday at the same time as Bilbo celebrated his 111th.


But how right are you? The thread concerns Frodo's age in relation to his friends, not Bilbo, nor even so much his definative age...


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## Grond (May 24, 2004)

Beorn said:


> But how right are you? The thread concerns Frodo's age in relation to his friends, not Bilbo, nor even so much his definative age...


Beorny old buddy... I direct you attention to the very first sentence of the thread starters post. It reads...


> Here's a very simple question that occurs to me. Why do you think Tolkien chose to make Frodo 50, and therefore so clearly older than the other 3 hobbits?


I merely answered this question. I have yet to address the others.


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## Eledhwen (May 24, 2004)

So, what are we discussing?

Frodo became 33 when Bilbo became 111, but Tolkien allowed a further 17 years to elapse before Frodo's adventure began, instead of having Gandalf realise straight away that the ring was The Ring and packing him off to Rivendell (like in the film). Why? 

He also allowed younger hobbits to grow up and accompany him, instead of having them come from his own age group. Again, why?

The seventeen year period allowed many other things to happen in the background. Also, I buy the explanation of Gandalf's realisation that Frodo too had not aged was key to the discovery of the Ring's identity. 

The time lapse adds to the sense of history, pacing the story and embedding it in time.

And younger hobbits? Frodo is clearly the leader, by age and experience, and the (initially hidden) knowledge that he was the Ringbearer. 50-year-old companions would have seemed to be older than Frodo, and the group dynamics may have been affected. Also, the growing up of Merry and Pippin and the increase in Sam's wisdom form a key story thread.


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## HLGStrider (May 25, 2004)

The seventeen year gap was for an obvious reason: it allowed Frodo to become Bilbo, the quietly settled Hobbit in love with the Shire. While Frodo was more adventurous from the start than Bilbo, this is purely from Bilbo's influence, not Frodo's character. It would strain belief to have him immediately jump off onto his own adventures after Bilbo left. . .and it would worry hobbiton too.


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