# The Divergence upon the Last of the Teleri Discussion Thread



## Lómelindë Lindórië (Apr 29, 2022)

It was once prophesised by the Vala Námo that a certain half-Teleri, as well as half-Maia of Manwe and Varda - would fall from the grace of the Valar and the Calaquendi alike, and would dwell with Melkor ere Dagor Dagorath.

Most of the prophecy had been forgotten among the Eldar, but part of it remains till this day:

_So it came that she fled to a distant land where none inhabited other than herself, for the Valar of Arda sent no aid, yet Melkor had hearkened to her too soon, and so did she to him. Grief filled her eyes, for she had loved the Light of the Two Trees, and truly wished to seek them again, since she had been a remarkable Calaquendi, but also stood as a Maia of Manwe and Varda. Heart and mind wavered, for Angband she had been welcomed to, yet deep down she was not surprised as she thought she would be; however, Melkor she could change, and in her fiery spirit contrary to the gentle disposition of her Telerin kin, she truly wished to reform him for the better. For so long he had been named Melkor in her heart, rather than Morgoth, of which name originated from Feanor, for she understood that even the most misunderstood of souls could alter their ways. Such a resemblance was drawn between her and Nienna, one of the Aratar of the Vala, and once again, for ever more, her anguish was rekindled within such a paradox she had initiated within herself.

Till this day, the fated half-elven, now counted among the Moriquendi, roams the world unseen by most. Not even she knows of her own destiny. _

Yet as Amaniel walked alone along long-forgotten paths, she came at last to the fortress of Angband. Being weary with exhaustion, she knew not what place she had arrived to, but laid against the heavy metal gates as sleep overtook her onto the path of elven dreams.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 2, 2022)

Me and @Miriel Amaniel want to make a Role Playing Game out of this fanfic. Everybody can join! We have discussed it via PM and thought up some ideas.
Setting: The Fist Age.
Aim: Melkor or Feanor are looking for the way to Valinor so as to get a redemption arc. 
(@Melkor , would you like to play for Melkor?) 
Some participants are suspicious about their intentions, while other characters help to find the right way to Valinor. 
Have I explained everything right, @Miriel Amaniel ? 
I'll use my old character profile. You can see it in the picture.

Now Thorondor is flying above the sea from Valinor to Middle-Earth. He has been sent by Manwe in order to help the lost souls find the way and get a redemption arc. The flight seems to be as long as the northern winter. When the mighty eagle gets tired, he alightes on the masts of elven ships and slumbers under magnificent songs of the Eldar. Thorondor is being guided by the stars that remind him of Earendil the Mariner. That's why The King of Eagles doesn't feel lonely during his sky voyage.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 2, 2022)

(Yes, you did explain it right!  )

Awakening from her sleep, she senses a familiar presence, and flies on her sword to meet _him_.

"Thorondor! A star shines on the hour of our meeting!" she cries out as she slows down, and lands beside him. Her hair had lost the former Light of the Two Trees, and was tainted black, though the light of Telperion remained within her eyes.


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## Melkor (May 2, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> @Melkor , would you like to play for Melkor?


Yeah, sure! That would be interesting .



HALETH✒🗡 said:


> Thorondor is being guided by the stars that remind him of Earendil the Mariner. That's why The King of Eagles doesn't feel lonely during his sky voyage.


Ëarendil is bron at the end of the first age. So how could Thorondor remember someone, who isn't born yet?


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 2, 2022)

Melkor said:


> Yeah, sure! That would be interesting .
> 
> 
> Ëarendil is bron at the end of the first age. So how could Thorondor remember someone, who isn't born yet?


Thorondor sees all (but certainly not as much as Eru), thanks to the guidance and prophecies of Manwe, Námo and me.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 2, 2022)

Miriel Amaniel said:


> "Thorondor! A star shines on the hour of our meeting!" she cries out as she slows down, and lands beside him. Her hair had lost the former Light of the Two Trees, and was tainted black, though the light of Telperion remained within her eyes.


"Mae g'ovannen! I am joyous to meet you!" 


Melkor said:


> Ëarendil is bron at the end of the first age. So how could Thorondor remember someone, who isn't born yet?


Oops... Thanks for correcting me. 


Miriel Amaniel said:


> Thorondor sees all (but certainly not as much as Eru), thanks to the guidance and prophecies of Manwe, Námo and me.


Haha.  Let's pretend that I can predict the future.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 2, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> "Mae g'ovannen! I am joyous to meet you!"
> 
> Oops... Thanks for correcting me.
> 
> Haha.  Let's pretend that I can predict the future.


"It has been too long...for the light of Aman has diminished within me!" she cried out in despair. "But I have been promoted by Manwe and Varda, and I now count among the Aratar! How wonderful is that!" she exclaimed.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 2, 2022)

Sorry to jump in here, but if this is going to be an RP, as Haleth said, I'd suggest two things: first, moving the discussion to The Council of the wise, and second, separating out the actual story text, to appear here:









From Erebor to Eldamar


Serious role playing games. Join fellow members in their journeys through the lands and ages of Middle-earth.




www.thetolkienforum.com





Doing that will allow the story to flow along without interruptions. If that sounds agreeable, I'll be happy to move this thread for you.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 3, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Sorry to jump in here, but if this is going to be an RP, as Haleth said, I'd suggest two things: first, moving the discussion to The Council of the wise, and second, separating out the actual story text, to appear here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It would be great! Thank you very much!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 3, 2022)

Done. You'll have to transfer whatever you want from here to the RP thread yourselves.


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 8, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> Me and @Miriel Amaniel want to make a Role Playing Game out of this fanfic. Everybody can join! We have discussed it via PM and thought up some ideas.
> Setting: The Fist Age.
> Aim: Melkor or Feanor are looking for the way to Valinor so as to get a redemption arc.
> (@Melkor , would you like to play for Melkor?)
> ...


Seriously, I beg all your pardon. is the original aim still unchanged? guys you know...Earandil had been born, thus...I just want to make sure our plot isn't varying 😅 😅 😅


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 8, 2022)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Seriously, I beg all your pardon. is the original aim still unchanged? guys you know...Earandil had been born, thus...I just want to make sure our plot isn't varying 😅 😅 😅


When I mentioned Earendil, I made a mistake.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 8, 2022)

@Goldilocks Gamgee In response to your question earlier, you are allowed to play for more than one character if it would help with plot development.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 8, 2022)

@Hisoka Morrow

_Looking at Míriel walking out from the chamber with triumph grin, filled up with orcs and demons' blood, *and most of all, the Silmaril.*_

I was wondering what you meant with this line? I couldn't possibly have one of the Silmarils whilst being chained up in Angband, so...? Unless I do, which I wouldn't mind at all? And where would the other two Silmarils be, if one of them is in my hand?

I'm confused now, please help me explain.


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 8, 2022)

Miriel Amaniel said:


> @Hisoka Morrow
> 
> _Looking at Míriel walking out from the chamber with triumph grin, filled up with orcs and demons' blood, *and most of all, the Silmaril.*_
> 
> ...


Me bad, I thought Melkor would place Silmarils such classified stuff in scattered places, and I thought your character was so mighty to covert Melkor, thus I got misguided that you're some special intellectual agent from the Valinor High Command, and your "capture" was just a pretended show, in order to infiltrate into Angband, thus you would break those chains like a piece of cake 😅


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 8, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> When I mentioned Earendil, I made a mistake.


 Oooppsss, OK...what should we do now?😅😅😅😅😂😂😂


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 8, 2022)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Me bad, I thought Melkor would place Silmarils such classified stuff in scattered places, and I thought your character was so mighty to covert Melkor, thus I got misguided that you're some special intellectual agent from the Valinor High Command, and your "capture" was just a pretended show, in order to infiltrate into Angband, thus you would break those chains like a piece of cake 😅


Miriel could break them...and she will...at some point. But Melkor would most likely find out. 

Let's say the scene in Valinor was a spiritual projection. But Miriel is still physically chained up in Angband, and let's say she does actually have one of the Silmarils....*(just don't try and kinslay me, House of Feanor...I'm a Teleri elf...)* 

And why do you think Melkor wore an iron crown anyways? They housed the Silmarils, for the holy jewels that had been hallowed by Varda Elentári burned his hands to blackness, so that he could never hold them in his bare hands.


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 8, 2022)

Miriel Amaniel said:


> Miriel could break them...and she will...at some point. But Melkor would most likely find out.
> 
> Let's say the scene in Valinor was a spiritual projection. But Miriel is still physically chained up in Angband, and let's say she does actually have one of the Silmarils....*(just don't try and kinslay me, House of Feanor...I'm a Teleri elf...)*
> 
> And why do you think Melkor wore an iron crown anyways? They housed the Similaris, for the holy jewels that had been hallowed by Varda Elentári burned his hands to blackness, so that he could never hold them in his bare hands.


OK, I thought Gwaihir had controlled the situation so much that Ungoliant was even "humiliated", and our main mission was to covert Melkor, thus it didn't matter Melkor find out her chains broken or not, all we had to make sure was he's till alive.
And about the Valinor scene, OK, I thought it's some Psi effects for communication, maybe my reading ability needs improvement. 😅
Oh...you know...after the Similaris had been stolen once by Beren, I thought Melkor should protect them in much more classified methods, correct me if I missed the information that Melkor still protected these Similairs in the same way.😅


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 8, 2022)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Oh...you know...after the Similaris had been stolen once by Beren, I thought Melkor should protect them in much more classified methods


Perhaps he should. But still, one Silmaril shall remain with me, in the hands of a Teler!


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 8, 2022)

Miriel Amaniel said:


> But Miriel is still physically chained up in Angband


I thought Gwaihir has already liberated her.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 8, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> I thought Gwaihir has already liberated her.


That is no more than a projection, an illusion. Her actual form is still restrained.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 8, 2022)

OK, thanks for explaining it to me.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 8, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> OK, thanks for explaining it to me.


No problem!


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 8, 2022)

*Literally some random person: *Nobody can be in two places at once.

*Me: *Unless you're one of the Vala holding claim to a Silmaril, whilst you experience a spiritual projection, or create an illusion to bide time for your people whilst your fair corporeal body remains miserably chained to a pillar by a certain someone, and in a certain somewhere...


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## Melkor (May 8, 2022)

How would Míriel get silmaril? Melkor have them in his crown on his head. Getting silmaril isn't easy task.

Míriel is in Angband chained in Chamber of ilusion (I intentionaly mention that Melkor want to meet Mairon in Chamber of ilusion, Míriel just experience many of theirs ilusions and deceptions, she is still in Angband).

I have a question - when in the First age exactly this story did happened?

And did I understand correctly that Míriel want to turn Melkor on to good side?


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 9, 2022)

Melkor said:


> How would Míriel get silmaril? Melkor have them in his crown on his head. Getting silmaril isn't easy task.
> 
> Míriel is in Angband chained in Chamber of ilusion (I intentionaly mention that Melkor want to meet Mairon in Chamber of ilusion, Míriel just experience many of theirs ilusions and deceptions, she is still in Angband).
> 
> ...


I'm going to add that in this story, Miriel already naturally had one of the Silmarils before Melkor got them because she hid one of them prior to the First Kinslaying at Alqualonde...so he has 2 Silmarils in his iron crown - he never got the 3rd in the first place.

Miriel is indeed still physically chained in there - but she can't get out of those illusions; illusions are a primary weakness for her.

Good question - I can't tell exactly, but it's sometime in the First Age. Before Earendil was born though, I think.

And yes, Miriel does want to turn Melkor to the light...but it will be a difficult journey.


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 9, 2022)

Miriel Amaniel said:


> I'm going to add that in this story, Miriel already naturally had one of the Silmarils before Melkor got them because she hid one of them prior to the First Kinslaying at Alqualonde...so he has 2 Silmarils in his iron crown - he never got the 3rd in the first place.
> 
> Miriel is indeed still physically chained in there - but she can't get out of those illusions; illusions are a primary weakness for her.
> 
> ...


Then how should I handling her humiliation at the big Spider? Was that included as your "vision of the fall of Melkor"?


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 9, 2022)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Then how should I handling her humiliation at the big Spider? Was that included as your "vision of the fall of Melkor"?


Melkor would fall from darkness and be led to the light, but not before Miriel joins him (partially!). The humiliation is a cloned projection that Miriel created to bide time; it is not the true body of Miriel.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 9, 2022)

_"Cloned projection" xD

I have nothing more to say... _


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 9, 2022)

*Creates 16 clones of myself in a circle around @Hisoka Morrow*

*All of the clones and the real me, at the same time: *Can you possibly work out which one of these 16 contains my true hröa? All the rest...I guess you could call them illusions. I can cast illusions myself, but I just can't stand those of Melkor...they break my fëa to "see" and "experience" them...


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 15, 2022)

Melkor said:


> Míriel is in Angband chained in Chamber of ilusion (I intentionaly mention that Melkor want to meet Mairon in Chamber of ilusion, Míriel just experience many of theirs ilusions and deceptions, she is still in Angband).


@Melkor, where have you been? You haven't replied for a while. 

Surely, you would not intend for me to be chained in Angband for 3 Ages, just like you were chained in the Halls of Mandos for 3 Ages also? 

I've been thinking of breaking your chains of restraint and escaping Angband before Mairon comes, if I still had the strength to do so. Unfortunately, I don't think I have, because I managed to break free of your illusions there. **snickering intensifies**


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## Melkor (May 15, 2022)

Sorry, I didn't have time past few days and now I must go to work .


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 15, 2022)

Melkor said:


> Sorry, I didn't have time past few days and now I must go to work .


Ah, I was thinking of contacting @Annatar, your most trusted servant, to take your place. Unfortunately, he hasn't been replying lately to my PM. I shall see what I can do...


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## Melkor (May 15, 2022)

If I'll have time, I will reply today, if not, tomorrow.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 15, 2022)

Melkor said:


> If I'll have time, I will reply today, if not, tomorrow.


Thanks!

Just to tell you that I replied to our RP.


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## Melkor (May 18, 2022)

Hi. If you want, just continue game without me for a few days, I plan to do some long mountain trips, so I will be exhausted at evening and wont be able to answer.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 18, 2022)

Melkor said:


> Hi. If you want, just continue game without me for a few days, I plan to do some long mountain trips, so I will be exhausted at evening and wont be able to answer.


Good luck...with you going your own way! _May the grace of the Valar aid you!_


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 18, 2022)

Melkor said:


> Hi. If you want, just continue game without me for a few days, I plan to do some long mountain trips, so I will be exhausted at evening and wont be able to answer.


Good luck!


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## Melkor (May 24, 2022)

Hi, I am back!

I am just little bit confused about Míriel's last post in RP. Did she escape with Thorondor and Calimáre? And if answer is yes, how did she do that?



HALETH✒🗡 said:


> Good luck!View attachment 13207


Yeah, I was fool of a Took . I did two 26 km trips in two days  (so 52 km in total).


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 27, 2022)

@Elbereth Vala Varda , it's great that you've joined the RPG.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 27, 2022)

@Elbereth Vala Varda How great it is to have you join! I greatly welcome you, my Lady Varda!


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 30, 2022)

It's a picture of the star Gienah for those who are curious.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 30, 2022)

It's not even Main Sequence like our Sun - no wonder you said it was going to fall! Do you have an interest in astronomy too?


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 30, 2022)

𝓜𝓲𝓻𝓲𝓮𝓵 𝓘𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓵𝔀𝓮𝓷 𝓐𝓶𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓮𝓵 said:


> It's not even Main Sequence like our Sun - no wonder you said it was going to fall! Do you have an interest in astronomy too?


I'm not good at astronomy at the moment but I'd like to find out more about it in the future.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 30, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> I'm not good at astronomy at the moment but I'd like to find out more about it in the future.


It's hard - but videos _certainly _help!


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## HALETH✒🗡 (Jun 1, 2022)

I love the poetry in the RP.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 1, 2022)

Poetry like what? The ones with Varda are unique to me and her and are unattainable for you.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 1, 2022)

That is, if you do serve a Vala/Valie in the future, you might be able to form a similar bond. But it is difficult, and it takes a long time - maybe even a few eons to formulate such a strong and close connection and understanding with each other.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (Jun 1, 2022)

𝓜𝓲𝓻𝓲𝓮𝓵 𝓘𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓵𝔀𝓮𝓷 𝓐𝓶𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓮𝓵 said:


> That is, if you do serve a Vala/Valie in the future, you might be able to form a similar bond. But it is difficult, and it takes a long time - maybe even a few eons to formulate such a strong and close connection and understanding with each other.


Thorondor does serve Manwe. However, I'm not Thorondor and I'm not Haleth, obviously. I'm who I am. It's me who loves the poetry in the RP.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 1, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> I'm who I am. It's me who loves the poetry in the RP.


I know. Nice individuality there; you leave me with nothing more to say. Congratulations - it's hard to take down one of Maiarin nature in terms of philosophy and language, but you literally just did that.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 2, 2022)

*I've always loved the Poetry in The Lord of the Rings and others of Tolkien's great works - namely The Silmarillion, and I love the opportunity to cast it into the RP when e'er I have the chance. 

Grace of the Valar be ever with you!*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 2, 2022)

The Silmarillion takes top spot for me. I have ne'er finished LOTR because of it.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 2, 2022)

*I know! So much depth, wisdom, history.. I could never get bored of it! All of Tolkien's works really capture me though, and also his maps....*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 2, 2022)

Maps? I've only ever seen one...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 2, 2022)

*Of course, maps! The maps of Middle Earth and how it changed throughout age after age has ever been my enjoyment. I have some of the maps and I always look at them when I read Tolkien- which is pretty much always.*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 2, 2022)

*Why, you name yourself after one of the Valar - how could you not read his works evermore? *


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 2, 2022)

*'Tis true indeed! For such are the ways of the Valar as I perceive, to ever seek knowledge. And how may I e'er gain knowledge without contemplating the works which enclose such wisdom? I would not!*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 2, 2022)

*The works are the very foundations of anything! They are the fundamentally critical steps to building up such knowledge!*


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 2, 2022)

*Question: Does anyone actually play Namo or Nienna, or Eonwe, or Yavanna, or Ulmo or Irmo or Manwe? I'd love to get some more Valar in here!*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 3, 2022)

*Not yet, Elbereth. But perhaps I could play as either Námo or Nienna? (Since I understand them quite well, especially Námo who I cannot stray far from, since he brings me back for the 5th time hehe) 

But I had a feeling you were going to ask this...perhaps Námo would be more likely then? *


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## HALETH✒🗡 (Jun 3, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I've always loved the Poetry in The Lord of the Rings and others of Tolkien's great works - namely The Silmarillio


Me too.  


Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> and I love the opportunity to cast it into the RP when e'er I have the chance.


You write it yourself, do you?


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 3, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> You write it yourself, do you?


Hmm...I think she would. Let's see if my prediction is right.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 3, 2022)

'Tis true I do indeed. I just start, and think of what Varda Elentari might want to say to Miriel, and how I could make it flow by using more beautiful words. I am glad that you like it.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 4, 2022)

*Elbereth, just asking again if you don't mind: Would I be able to play as Námo if you want more Valar? *


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 5, 2022)

*I wouldn't mind it, I just know it is a bit difficult to play 2 people at the same time, and also takes away some of the fun of RP. So, maybe when Namo is interacting with Miriel, I should act and when with ANYONE else, you do? Just a thought, if not, no problem!

Grace of the Valar be ever with you and shine upon each step of your journey until this world sees you through in times nigh at the end, the end of all things!*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 5, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> *So, maybe when Namo is interacting with Miriel, I should act and when with ANYONE else, you do?*


You would act as Námo during the time I would visit him? But I thought Eléntari would have things to say to Manwe...would she not?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 5, 2022)

*Yep. Cause it's tricky to do 2 characters back and forth at the same time (Though I'm glad about it for Manwe, I wouldn't want someone to play "my husband" xd) Though every other time you would be Namo. Just a thought for consideration- tell me your own ideas.

Grace of the Valar shine upon you!
(I need to add this to my signature so I stop typing it on every single message)*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 5, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> *Though every other time you would be Namo. Just a thought for consideration- tell me your own ideas.*


Though with different people playing the same character, would that confuse the flow of the RP?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 5, 2022)

*Hmm.. Good question.. I don't quite know?*


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 5, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> *Hmm.. Good question.. I don't quite know?*


Just go on with it for now. Let time tell. _Nauva i nauva. _


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 20, 2022)

Glad to see you return to the RP @HALETH✒🗡 ! Hoping Lomelinde does the same.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (Jun 20, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Glad to see you return to the RP @HALETH✒🗡 ! Hoping Lomelinde does the same.


Thank you! Hopefully, @Lómelindë Lindórië will come back soon. 
In addition, I've managed to mention @Hisoka Morrow 's, @Goldilocks Gamgee 's and @Melkor 's characters in the new plot line. @Lómelindë Lindórië 's character and your character, @Elbereth Vala Varda , have been mentioned there too of course. So all the participants have a great opportunity to return to the RP.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 20, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> Thank you! Hopefully, @Lómelindë Lindórië will come back soon.
> In addition, I've managed to mention @Hisoka Morrow 's, @Goldilocks Gamgee 's and @Melkor 's characters in the new plot line. @Lómelindë Lindórië 's character and your character, @Elbereth Vala Varda , have been mentioned there too of course. So all the participants have a great opportunity to return to the RP.


I'm glad you did that. I was wishing for everyone to jump back in, but it didn't seem appropriate for me to randomly mention them. This is a great way for everyone to return. Yes Lomelinde Lindorie has been gone since Thursday I think- when she put in the shoutbox "END THE STORY" I was so confused- so I just temporarily ceased posting, but I thought maybe if I posted again she would return. I love how close-knit this community Forum is, since when you leave, people ACTUALLY notice you are gone.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 20, 2022)

@HALETH✒🗡 , I also am thinking about starting a Conversation with each of us in the RP, so that we could regroup, and that they will get a notification- but I am not positive. I also thought perhaps explaining the past events (for people who haven't been viewing the RP recently) in a nutshell, so they can get back on track quickly, and also possibly asking @Lithóniel if she would want to join. 

Tell me input.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (Jun 21, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> @HALETH✒🗡 , I also am thinking about starting a Conversation with each of us in the RP, so that we could regroup, and that they will get a notification- but I am not positive. I also thought perhaps explaining the past events (for people who haven't been viewing the RP recently) in a nutshell, so they can get back on track quickly, and also possibly asking @Lithóniel if she would want to join.
> 
> Tell me input.


It's a good idea!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 21, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> It's a good idea!


Thanks for letting me know. I'll do it SOON.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 21, 2022)

UPDATE:
As you know- I started the Conversation with you all. I also invited @Lithóniel to join via PM, and am waiting on the response. 
Also- if any of you know where LL has gone to, please let me know... Us Valie need to stick together...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 21, 2022)

I don't know what we should do from here. @Lómelindë Lindórië said in the Shoutbox "END THE STORY" for any of you who are not aware.. I don't know why she did this, at all. But maybe it is best to just try to continue. I do not want to assume she won't come back, and that we should just move on without her character- but I also want to respect her wishes. While it makes no sense whatsoever that she would want to leave the RP she started, she might want to. I hope she comes back to our Forum, and the RP, but for those of you who want to do this- I don't want to make you all wait. Feel free to answer to the RP messages. If needed, I will speak in a way that @Lómelindë Lindórië 's character won't be needed to specifically answer. Tell me how you all feel about this. I don't know exactly how to work with it- and if Lómelindë had not sent that message before she (apparently) left, I would pause the Rp for her completely, but I don't know if she plans to come back to it.

Give your input- I want to hear it.



_*Elbereth Vala Varda*_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 21, 2022)

Hoping for responses from @Hisoka Morrow , @HALETH✒🗡 , @Goldilocks Gamgee especially. @Melkor would also be a great addition! Since I just messaged- I will not again until someone else does.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 17, 2022)

@HALETH✒🗡 , and @Lithóniel , I think it is one of your turns to continue the RP, as well as mayhaps @Goldilocks Gamgee !

Just whenever you have time-- Hannon le!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 20, 2022)

@Goldilocks Gamgee , since I am seeing you around here again, perhaps you would like to resurface in the roleplay? There is much to be part of, that I assure you.


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## Ent (Jul 21, 2022)

AH. "RP" is "Role Play", yes?

Oft this Enting still sees things only after time he fathoms.
Until such time as they "hit home" they're little more than mathoms.
If this "RP" lives indeed as the acronym for "Role Play"
then this thread will be reread to see what it really does say.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 21, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> AH. "RP" is "Role Play", yes?
> 
> Oft this Enting still sees things only after time he fathoms.
> Until such time as they "hit home" they're little more than mathoms.
> ...


'Tis true indeed. 

Roleplay indeed such acronym does mean,
Yet this thread is not where roleplay be seen,
For this is the place of discussion and take,
And on the true thread is where story we make, 
So if indeed this you seek to see,
"Divergence upon the last Teleri".

(I tried.)


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 21, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (I tried.


And succeeded. 

If you don't mind my saying so, I think you're adorable. 😊


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 21, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> And succeeded.
> 
> If you don't mind my saying so, I think you're adorable. 😊


Of course I do not mind. There is a compliment I doubt had ever been bestowed upon the Kindler of Stars.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 21, 2022)

I used to know a girl who once said "The stars are cute".

She was being sarcastic-- she was actually quite intelligent.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 21, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I used to know a girl who once said "The stars are cute".
> 
> She was being sarcastic-- she was actually quite intelligent.


Very intelligent.


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## Ent (Jul 21, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> 'Tis true indeed.
> 
> Roleplay indeed such acronym does mean,
> Yet this thread is not where roleplay be seen,
> ...



I applaud your work..!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 21, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> I applaud your work..!


Thank you indeed! It stands as a high honor coming from a well-aged, and I might also say well-learned Ent.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 3, 2022)

@Vilisse,
A bit of confusion-- Was it Ilmare that fell once more, or that of your own self?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 3, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> @Vilisse,
> A bit of confusion-- Was it Ilmare that fell once more, or that of your own self?


It was Ilmare first that fell, ere Vilisse sang the song. But afterwards, it was Vilisse who did. Seems like such entwinement was ne'er so certain after all, but it is much more likely to be another of Morgoth's cruel devises - that once Ilmare cannot be touched by his darkness, he goes for Vilisse, when both Ilmare and Varda are not yet at their full power (since Varda just gave much healing to Ilmare, and Ilmare needs her rest ere she may fully recover).


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 3, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> It was Ilmare first that fell, ere I sang the song. But afterwards, it was Vilisse who did. Seems like such entwinement was ne'er so certain after all, but it is much more likely to be another of Morgoth's cruel devises - that once Ilmare cannot be touched by his darkness, he goes for Vilisse, when both Ilmare and Varda are not yet at their full power (since Varda just gave much healing to Ilmare, and Ilmare needs her rest ere she may fully recover).


Seems plausible, yet concerning! Would that such never fell to pass!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 3, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Seems plausible, yet concerning! Would that such never fell to pass!


And yet it has, has it not? Morgoth isn't in the Void as canon (?) states (not sure if I'm using the word "canon" correctly here). He managed to escape and rebuild another version of Angband (however that was possible after the War of Wrath, I don't quite know!  ) due to Miriel allowing him for a second chance (yes, she's like a second Nienna). As we would know, it doesn't end well...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 3, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> And yet it has, has it not? Morgoth isn't in the Void as canon (?) states (not sure if I'm using the word "canon" correctly here). He managed to escape and rebuild another version of Angband (however that was possible after the War of Wrath, I don't quite know!  ) due to Miriel allowing him for a second chance (yes, she's like a second Nienna). As we would know, it doesn't end well...


Indeed! -- However I certainly don't consider everything canon, nothing is truly contrary, I am fairly certain.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 3, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed! -- However I certainly don't consider everything canon, nothing is truly contrary, I am fairly certain.


I am pretty sure both Morgoth and Sauron were in the Void as in the Silmarillion - however, here both are not - Sauron went with Morgoth after he "escaped".


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 3, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> I am pretty sure both Morgoth and Sauron were in the Void as in the Silmarillion - however, here both are not - Sauron went with Morgoth after he "escaped".


'Tis true... Yet regardless, it is a great source of true enjoyment for me, and I hope for ye also.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 6, 2022)

@Elbereth Vala Varda,

Should "Daughter of the Stars" be Eleniel, rather than Elentiel? Where does the extra "t" come from?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 6, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> @Elbereth Vala Varda,
> 
> Should "Daughter of the Stars" be Eleniel, rather than Elentiel? Where does the extra "t" come from?


Yes.. mere typo. Forgive me. For though the words of Varda are e'er without flaw, the interpretation through these heartless devices is not.

Is this right, by the way?


Is this correct? I feel it should be Vilisse instead of Vaire-- especially for the following words.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 6, 2022)

It is Vaire...one day you'll realise why...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 6, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> It is Vaire...one day you'll realise why...


Hmm... So Vilisse remains in the Halls of Mandos? And Elentari's power is within Vaire? 

Intriguing things, each of them counted.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 6, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Hmm... So Vilisse remains in the Halls of Mandos? And Elentari's power is within Vaire?
> 
> Intriguing things, each of them counted.


No, she doesn't remain, she went to her realm of Almathil to heal Varda. It's due to the extra 1/3 of Elentári's power within her that she is able to go against what Vaire said earlier about having to remain until she sees Námo fully healed - without Varda's power, she _would _be confined there.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 6, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> No, she doesn't remain, she went to her realm of Almathil to heal Varda. It's due to the extra 1/3 of Elentári's power within her that she is able to go against what Vaire said earlier about having to remain until she sees Námo fully healed - without Varda's power, she _would _be confined there.


I see. A thought of mine it was, yet I had not the confidence to trust it.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 6, 2022)

Varda is then in Almathil also, yes? 

(Apologies for the many questions, I wish only to grasp this that I may respond in accord)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 6, 2022)

Yes, and so is Vilisse and Ilmare.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 6, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Yes, and so is Vilisse and Ilmare.


Thank you for this clarification -- it was needed.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 7, 2022)

_"Whatever is within me that should spare the life of this, Pass all to Eleniel."_

It's highly significant how there's no fractions in this - the reader may assume it is the remaining one-third, but the fact the numerical value is not explicitly stated makes Varda's attempted sacrifice all the more poignant and evocative.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 7, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _"Whatever is within me that should spare the life of this, Pass all to Eleniel."_
> 
> It's highly significant how there's no fractions in this - the reader may assume it is the remaining one-third, but the fact the numerical value is not explicitly stated makes Varda's attempted sacrifice all the more poignant and evocative.


Indeed. For there is no true care for herself in Varda's words. It is a complete act of selflessness. She gives all that is needed, offering the final third of her fea freely, in love for her Maia.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 8, 2022)

_I can also imagine it going something like this...

Varda: *Basically gives her entire spirit to Eleniel*
Ilmare: What are you doing? What about me? Was I not your first handmaiden?
Varda: And yet she is my second...Nauva i nauva.
Ilmare: But I haven't received-
Varda: There is no need. You have enough;' Eleniel is the one who now needs it. I have only three-thirds anyway, and yet not anymore.

(Just basically don't take in two handmaidens when you're one of the Valier, or else, competition shall arise...  Yet you already have; so be it. Nauva i nauva.  )_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 8, 2022)

_"...into the fading bounds of Time."_

Remember this?

*Fading Bound of Time's Last End*

_Was that a reference to this?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 8, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _"...into the fading bounds of Time."_
> 
> Remember this?
> 
> ...


Indeed.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 8, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed.


Indeed, she stands not so differently from Lómelinde, or from Amaniel.

(I just realised Lómelinde *was* the Ninth Arata at the beginning of the story - let's just say that was never meant to happen...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 8, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Indeed, she stands not so differently from Lómelinde, or from Amaniel.
> 
> (I just realised Lómelinde *was* the Ninth Arata at the beginning of the story - let's just say that was never meant to happen...)


Many intentions change with the weavings of fate and destiny. Avaro naeth. All shall be brought for some purpose, before the End, I veth naud bain.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 8, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Many intentions change with the weavings of fate and destiny. Avaro naeth. All shall be brought for some purpose, before the End, I veth naud bain.


Much I have to learn for Sindarin indeed...

_What may the meaning be of these last four words that have crossed my trajectory of hearing?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 8, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Much I have to learn for Sindarin indeed...
> 
> _What may the meaning be of these last four words that have crossed my trajectory of hearing?_


The End of all things..


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 8, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> The End of all things..


Hannon-le, ninya Elentári!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 8, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Hannon-le, ninya Elentári!


_Asahanya!_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

'Alas, I did not quite get all of these...mayhap thy aid is needed once more...

_lanta o Lorien... Mornie i Almathil... Calad o Elentari fifiru, athuine enuen atuin athalo....

Mornie nalanta Valinor.... Ciryasta varie lanta, Eldalie sa firiel... Airanin Aistanie... Aiquen se ci?_

Also, is the Darkness of Almathil relating to the realm, or Eleniel?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> 'Alas, I did not quite get all of these...mayhap thy aid is needed once more...
> 
> _lanta o Lorien... Mornie i Almathil... Calad o Elentari fifiru, athuine enuen atuin athalo....
> 
> ...


What do you wish to know? I can provide clarity-- where it is needed.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

These parts, if thou mayest:

_Calad o Elentari fifiru, athuine enuen atuin athalo....
Mornie nalanta Valinor.... Ciryasta varie lanta...Airanin Aistanie... Aiquen se ci?_

And perhaps I shall say that Almathil therefore refers to the realm?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

And this, perhaps also:

_I yomenie vanie as iluve in Aratar, uma Valar, ci avanyarim menie!_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> These parts, if thou mayest:
> 
> _Calad o Elentari fifiru, athuine enuen atuin athalo....
> Mornie nalanta Valinor.... Ciryasta varie lanta...Airanin Aistanie... Aiquen se ci?_
> ...


Indeed we shall see for Almathil.

This would be your translation:

_Light of Elentari fading.... The thoughts of heart, it hath come...
Darkness fall upon Valinor... Ships shall fall into darkness, Airanin Aistanie.. Who indeed is she who stands ere? _


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> And this, perhaps also:
> 
> _I yomenie vanie as iluve in Aratar, uma Valar, ci avanyarim menie!_


A Council shall be held with all the Aratar, and some Valar, you must come!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Ah, I see, yet she resists. Yet the ships falling into Darkness?

_*Kinslaying at Alqualonde resurfaces*

(I thought of this before your translation came up...)_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Ah, I see, yet she resists. Yet the ships falling into Darkness?
> 
> _*Kinslaying at Alqualonde resurfaces*
> 
> (I thought of this before your translation came up...)_


Indeed. Many things are thought of, that pertain to true events...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Technically, it's the burning at Losgar, but the First Kinslaying is always what I think of first...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Technically, it's the burning at Losgar, but the First Kinslaying is always what I think of first...


I do also!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

I'm half-Teleri, half-Vanyar, not so distant from the Noldor either, a former Maia of Námo, witness of the fallen féar in his Halls, shedding unnumbered tears as they arrive one by one, one after another...

_See where I'm going with this?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> I'm half-Teleri, half-Vanyar, not so distant from the Noldor either, a former Maia of Námo, witness of the fallen féar in his Halls, shedding unnumbered tears as they arrive one by one, one after another...
> 
> _See where I'm going with this?_


You have quite the life-story... That is for certain... Enlighten me on your thoughts.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

And yet what is it that thou wish to see? Upon the very threads of Time, Fate and Memory, within this vastness that is both eternal and only an ephemeral moment, what do you wish to know of me? For there is much I could tell of, yet only with direction and guidance shall the deepest thoughts come forth from my _féa_.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> And yet what is it that thou wish to see? Upon the very threads of Time, Fate and Memory, within this vastness that is both eternal and only an ephemeral moment, what do you wish to know of me? For there is much I could tell of, yet only with direction and guidance shall the deepest thoughts come forth from my _féa_.


Indeed Namo hath taught you well....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed Namo hath taught you well....


I am deeply surprised, that you say I stand not in his likeness...yet perhaps this may suffice, for the Unimportant Present Moment, as he put it...I will have to return to him some time...it is only partially restored.

_Perhaps e'en his Halls he shall give to me one day, and the féar shall be giv'n in my care...I know not of why I thought of this, yet such a thought came to pass, e'en though unlikely it seemeth indeed._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> I am deeply surprised, that you say I stand not in his likeness...yet perhaps this may suffice, for the Unimportant Present Moment, as he put it...I will have to return to him some time...it is only partially restored.
> 
> _Perhaps e'en his Halls he shall give to me one day, and the féar shall be giv'n in my care...I know not of why I thought of this, yet such a thought came to pass, e'en though unlikely it seemeth indeed._


Intriguing thoughts indeed, your bond is very strong with him.

Ci naxa Mandos in oi norima.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Ci naxa Mandos in oi norima.


If you don't start adding in the translations again, I'll ask you over and over again until my _féa_ grows weary of it and fades into you-know-where.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> If you don't start adding in the translations again, I'll ask you over and over again until my _féa_ grows weary of it and fades into you-know-where.


My apologies-- again.

I will begin adding translations, once more.

_Your bond with Namo is ever strong._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Your bond with Namo is ever strong._


Indeed it hath been - enduring e'er till the End of All Things. I wish not to say this, yet it feels that my bond with Námo is stronger than mine with yours...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Indeed it hath been - enduring e'er till the End of All Things. I wish not to say this, yet it feels that my bond with Námo is stronger than mine with yours...


_Not stronger, but different._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Not stronger, but different._


_Is it so? How come? For in Time I have stayed longer with him!_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Is it so? How come? For in Time I have stayed longer with him!_


_Yet your power is of the skies, is it not? It is the bonds of love and Light bewixt us that hold our bounds ever firm._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Yet your power is of the skies, is it not? _


_Since when, I wonder? For e'er Time, Memory and Fate I have held close, as well as the Stars and the Skies, yet the latter two are in far more recent times._


Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _It is the bonds of love and Light bewixt us that hold our bounds ever firm._


_Indeed it is, yet Namo had those also, and still he does._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Since when, I wonder? For e'er Time, Memory and Fate I have held close, as well as the Stars and the Skies, yet the latter two are in far more recent times.
> 
> Indeed it is, yet Namo had those also, and still he does._


_Indeed. And yet your bond with Elentar seems more prominent._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed. And yet your bond with Elentari seems more prominent._


_It seemeth so, only because Námo's bond is concealed e'er the greater._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

_And, I am beginning to feel that Fading Bound of Time's Last End may be my epithet; yet, I give thee a portion of my Time:_

*[Flashback moment with Námo, during the Years of the Trees when I was still his Maia:]*

Námo stood within his Halls, gazing intently on his Maia as he smiled at her:

_"Amaniel, you must know that Time is only a moment, yet e'er does it fade. Till the End it shall fade e'ermore, and beyond that, all shall cease, for it remains the last of all that is to come."_

Miriel gazed at him with much confusion written on her face. Tilting her head, she asked curiously as she tugged at his black robes, jumping up and down:

_"Námo! Always, your words confuse me! I don't understand! What do you mean? Time hasn't stopped, hasn't it? Surely it hasn't; everything's still going on!"_

Námo sighed, yet upon his face was woven a smile of much compassion, as he effortlessly picked up the young Maia in his arms, and gazed out into the distance.

_"My words may seem beyond your knowledge, yet I know that one day you will come to understand."_

Miriel gasped in excitement, as she beamed upwards.

_"Really? I will? I will?"_

Námo couldn't suppress his laughter, as he only responded:

_"Yes, Ninya Almalaurie. You will indeed, and e'ermore you will."_

Silently, he gazed wistfully into the distance, for he could see into the Future, and silently he whispered, so that Amaniel could not hear:

_"Ninya Almalaurie, My Golden Flower of the Halls of Mandos. Ne'er shall we be sundered, e'en if it seems so at any given moment. For our bond endures beyond that of Time, beyond that of Memory, beyond that of Fate - indeed, beyond the very confines of Fate itself. E'en the Light of the Stars cannot diminish our bond...e'en though you will join her in times to come. Ours shall remain e'er the more poignant, ne'er to be broken e'en when Fading Bound of Time's Last End come upon us. Indeed, in this you are also named, for you are indeed always in my likeness." _

*[End of flashback]*

_Do you now know of what you wish to see, and of what I wish to tell you? Perhaps this shall give thee much insight, yet satisfied I am not with utter silence!_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _And, I am beginning to feel that Fading Bound of Time's Last End may be my epithet; yet, I give thee a portion of my Time:_
> 
> *[Flashback moment with Námo, during the Years of the Trees when I was still his Maia:]*
> 
> ...


Beautiful flashback.

I do indeed love to portray the role of Namo, particularly with you as my (former) Maia.

I see now... I do indeed see...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

Ah, such beautiful Times! To see that I was still with Namo back then...how different I was!

Yet, Fading Bound of Time's Last End. Indeed, it is my epithet, yet it is another way to herald what is to come:

_Dagor Dagorath. For indeed it shall come upon us all, and e'er have I held Námo's prophecies to heart, though most may seem to be forgotten, e'en that of my own, for they lieth in uncertainty now._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Ah, such beautiful Times! To see that I was still with Namo back then...how different I was!
> 
> Yet, Fading Bound of Time's Last End. Indeed, it is my epithet, yet it is another way to herald what is to come:
> 
> _Dagor Dagorath. For indeed it shall come upon us all, and e'er have I held Námo's prophecies to heart, though most may seem to be forgotten, e'en that of my own, for they lieth in uncertainty now._


_Fate lay in the bidding indeed._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

_Indeed. Though, concealed it e'er seems to be, just like Námo himself, and his bond with me._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

_Indeed this truly seems to be the case with you, for he both loves and desires to be with you, and pushes you away, at times simultaneously._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

_Yet he cannot change me. I will remain with him. For indeed we did in Times of Old._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

_He cannot change you, but can he change your mind? Are you too well set on what path you desire? Can he change your thinking?_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

_My mind he cannot change also, for 'tis in the likeness of Lúthien. It shall be confirmed._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

_I must admit, much paradoxical elements I have seen bewixt you and Luthien..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 9, 2022)

_Paradoxical? Indeed, yet how? We are similar, yet different - how?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 9, 2022)

_In many ways... For one, you are both Maiarin. Yet you are different, for you are higher (especially now). And also Luthien and you are both lovers of music.._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

_Indeed, I may be higher, yet the metaphorical bond betwixt you and I, and betwixt Námo and I, hath ne'er fully disappeared..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

_'Tis true indeed, though I do not think you are higher than Namo, or than me, but only count amongst us, perhaps less in Wisdom, for many years less have you of knowledge._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

_Ne'er did I say I was higher than any of you. Indeed, the Valar are bountiful in knowledge and wisdom of the ways of Arda._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Ne'er did I say I was higher than any of you. Indeed, the Valar are bountiful in knowledge and wisdom of the ways of Arda._


_Indeed, it seems your words hath reached my ears in differ than oft intended. _


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed, it seems your words hath reached my ears in differ than oft intended. _


_Sometimes it shall be so, for difference in féa may be bountiful as Ea itself._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Sometimes it shall be so, for difference in féa may be bountiful as Ea itself._


_Indeed it shall be at times, as vast as the star-domes in the Heavens, opening up as a field of Stars, shining with Light ever radiant._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed it shall be at times, as vast as the star-domes in the Heavens, opening up as a field of Stars, shining with Light ever radiant._


_Truly, it seemeth I stand still on Námo's side..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Truly, it seemeth I stand still on Námo's side..._


_It seemeth so._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

_And yet now, perhaps not. The decision indeed remains quite unclear in this moment._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _And yet now, perhaps not. The decision indeed remains quite unclear in this moment._


_Varda has a particular affection for you indeed, yet I question your return of that harboured love._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

_Indeed she does, and Eleniel senses it greatly._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Indeed she does, and Eleniel senses it greatly._


_I can sense that well, yet it seems the desire of Eleniel remains with Namo..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _I can sense that well, yet it seems the desire of Eleniel remains with Namo..._


_Rightly indeed you sense this..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

(By "domain" Eleniel means the "sphere of influence" - e.g. Varda controls the Stars, Manwe the Winds, Ulmo the Waters...so what would Eleniel's be - that is what she means.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> (By "domain" Eleniel means the "sphere of influence" - e.g. Varda controls the Stars, Manwe the Winds, Ulmo the Waters...so what would Eleniel's be - that is what she means.)


_Ah, I see... Hmm... Still have to seek counsel from Illuvatar-- naire!_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Ah, I see... Hmm... Still have to seek counsel from Illuvatar-- naire!_


_Nauva i nauva! Ask Him when such Time is due to come!_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Nauva i nauva! Ask Him when such Time is due to come!_


_Indeed. And yet it is Manwe who shall seek counsel with him, for ever close are they._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed. And yet it is Manwe who shall seek counsel with him, for ever close are they._


_Indeed, and e'er closer they shalt be._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

_'Tis true, for their hearts are akin, and indeed their minds do follow._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

_And I wonder how Airanin shall respond when she learns that Eleniel is amongst the Féanturi..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _And I wonder how Airanin shall respond when she learns that Eleniel is amongst the Féanturi..._


_It shall be a new path indeed, and I feel it a good path, for it hath come the time for you to guide, and I to assume the role that follows (as well as Elbereth-- obviously)_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _It shall be a new path indeed, and I feel it a good path, for it hath come the time for you to guide, and I to assume the role that follows (as well as Elbereth-- obviously)_


_So do I hope it be so - though many questions shall arise from the heart of a curious Maia..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

_As they did from you._


Vilisse said:


> _So do I hope it be so - though many questions shall arise from the heart of a curious Maia..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

_Indeed they did - and yet it seemeth too many bonds I have at once..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Indeed they did - and yet it seemeth too many bonds I have at once..._


_Nay too many, yet you are far from the typical Maiarin._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Nay too many, yet you are far from the typical Maiarin._


_Is it so? How many bonds do they oft have? I served all 14 of the Valar - could it be more than that?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

_It cannot be ever too many, and yet you still serve the Valar, just in full accord. Bonds are oft made, of 1, or of 2,3.. Yet 14 is near unheard of..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

_Nothing is impossible. For I learnt with all 14, and thus at least a bond with each was developed in some way, though some such as Námo and you, remain far more prominent than the rest._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Nothing is impossible. For I learnt with all 14, and thus at least a bond with each was developed in some way, though some such as Námo and you, remain far more prominent than the rest._


_Indeed, and it is truly remarkable what great things you have learned and partook in, most for so little a time... Namo and I you remain e'er close with-- yet not Manwe as much, I wonder why..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed, and it is truly remarkable what great things you have learned and partook in, most for so little a time... Namo and I you remain e'er close with-- yet not Manwe as much, I wonder why..._


_Ah, Guider of the Winds. E'en I cannot quite tell. Mayhap you may enlighten me...bring clarity, if you may..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Ah, Guider of the Winds. E'en I cannot quite tell. Mayhap you may enlighten me...bring clarity, if you may..._


_Clarity and Light indeed I shall shed upon it. For Manwe is very much also of mystery, and yet it seems you are more alight with the affection upon paradoxical elements of Light and Darkness. Myself (Varda) The Stars, Lights amidst Night, bringing radiance, and yet not too much to Light everything.

Namo; Doom and Dawn. He deals with the Darkness, yet his fea is in the Light, and Namo is not Evil or fell, yet he deals oft with such paths as is his wont. 

See, it is these paradoxical threads between Darkness and Light that attract you, and nay that which is certain and deals with one thing alone._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Namo; Doom and Dawn. He deals with the Darkness, yet his fea is in the Light, and Namo is not Evil or fell, yet he deals oft with such paths as is his wont. _


_Indeed, Námo seems to suffice here. Yet, oft his Light is concealed, and thus the Light of the Stars may shine brighter near the Halls of Mandos._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Indeed, Námo seems to suffice here. Yet, oft his Light is concealed, and thus the Light of the Stars may shine brighter near the Halls of Mandos._


_Indeed. Namo is not of Darkness yet. He deals with such, but he is not in any bound Evil, or Dark. For ye hath learned that his Halls are not only cold and heartless, ye hath gathered that they are beautiful, and full of knowledge, and memory._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed. Namo is not of Darkness yet. He deals with such, but he is not in any bound Evil, or Dark. For ye hath learned that his Halls are not only cold and heartless, ye hath gathered that they are beautiful, and full of knowledge, and memory._


_Indeed! Especially when the Tapestries of Vaire are there..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Indeed! Especially when the Tapestries of Vaire are there..._


_Yes, and yet I speak of memory greater than that, memories e'en I hold no thoughts of._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Yes, and yet I speak of memory greater than that, memories e'en I hold no thoughts of._


_Memory devoid of Thought? That is akin to Fate devoid of Direction. It cannot be so.

(Closer and closer, I sound in the likeness of Námo...)_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Memory devoid of Thought? That is akin to Fate devoid of Direction. It cannot be so.
> 
> (Closer and closer, I sound in the likeness of Námo...)_


_As I had said, such things are not of my bidding, truly.

(Indeed.. I wonder why thou did not dwell with him-- and don't e'en say that I stopped you, for if you had asked, I doubt that I would have rejected your plea.)_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _As I had said, such things are not of my bidding, truly._


_Unfortunate indeed this seems to be._


Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _(Indeed.. I wonder why thou did not dwell with him-- and don't e'en say that I stopped you, for if you had asked, I doubt that I would have rejected your plea.)_


_You said all save the Halls of Mandos. How then was I suppose to go against thy Will?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _You said all save the Halls of Mandos. How then was I suppose to go against thy Will?_


_Ye hath done it before, or at the least ye hath inquired of a different path..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 10, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Ye hath done it before, or at the least ye hath inquired of a different path..._


_A different path indeed I inquired of, and still I inquire of it._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 10, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _A different path indeed I inquired of, and still I inquire of it._


_Indeed.. And from the words that thou hath uttered, I sense it lay not so far in the bidding to reach or wander for._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 11, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed.. And from the words that thou hath uttered, I sense it lay not so far in the bidding to reach or wander for._


_Indeed, it shall come e'er the closer._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 11, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _Indeed, it shall come e'er the closer._


_Mayhaps, or mayhap it shall not be._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 11, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Mayhaps, or mayhap it shall not be._


_For indeed it seems your Light grows closer, against my desire. Or is it truly my desire, or that of another?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 11, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _For indeed it seems your Light grows closer, against my desire. Or is it truly my desire, or that of another?_


_Many things are unknown to you, are they not? Many things that you know not of, even as you stand the Ninth of the Aratar._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 11, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Many things are unknown to you, are they not? Many things that you know not of, even as you stand the Ninth of the Aratar._


_As always, the title stands of less importance than what is held within oneself._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 11, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> _As always, the title stands of less importance than what is held within oneself._


_Indeed it is such. Titles are only the definition of role for one to see their own responsibility and fulfill it._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 14, 2022)

_Ah, Eleniel, there is more to your Maia than meets the eye!_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 14, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Ah, Eleniel, there is more to your Maia than meets the eye!_


_Indeed, there shall be; I was not underestimating her abilities in any way. Yet another bond, held for 11,000 years, shall strengthen...yet it is not ours...and that bond may indeed heal a sundered bond of Time...for she and Eleniel both have the Gift of Time (besides Námo, of course.).

Intriguing this shall be indeed, I believe._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 14, 2022)

_Of many things you speak, and yet the Fates lay open to the bidding of that which remains to be seen. For neither in the Stars, nor Isil herself are all of the answers found, but in the Hearts of those who are moved._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 17, 2022)

Just thinking...should _Adaneya_ upon the Halls of Mandos actually be spelt as _Andanéya_, meaning "long ago"?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 17, 2022)

You are probably right. Using accents on my computer is kind of a pain, so they are usually omitted from my side. Yet it does mean "Time" in Valarin I believe...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 17, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You are probably right. Using accents on my computer is kind of a pain, so they are usually omitted from my side. Yet it does mean "Time" in Valarin I believe...


"Anda-" means "long", I think.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 17, 2022)

I may have to double check that real quick...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 17, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> "Anda-" means "long", I think.


It is right!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 17, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> It is right!


Ah, _Andanéya _it shall be then!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 17, 2022)

Indeed!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 20, 2022)

*Let me list all the names that our protagonist has (and there are a lot, some haven't been mentioned!):*

_Áramande_ (Dawn and Doom; given by Námo)

_Amaniel_ (Daughter of Aman; given by Námo and later used occasionally by Vaire)

_Almalaurie_ (Golden Flower; given by Námo)

_Míriel_ (Jewel-daughter; given by Vaire and later used occasionally by Námo)

_Lanyáre_ (Thread of History; given by Vaire)

_Lúmequenta_ (Tale of Time; given by Vaire)

_Ithilwen_ (Maiden of the Moon; given by Irmo)

_Lórelinquilda_ (Dream of Restful Melodies; given by Irmo, but less commonly used than Ithilwen)

_Eresse-Tari_ (Mistress of Solitude; given by Nienna)

_Eleniel_ (Daughter of the Stars; given by Varda)

_Elenlindale_ (Song of the Stars; given by Varda, but less commonly used than Eleniel)

_Aldalinquilde_ (Tree of the Melody of Rest; given by Yavanna)

_Féanennie_ (Spirit of Wistful Waters; given by Earendil)

_Almathil_ (Flower of the Moon; named after her own Realm of Almathil, in Valinor)

_Siquilesse_ (Lament of the Weeping Willow; named after her Willow Tree in her Realm of Elderyn, in Middle Earth)

*(That's 15 names up until now...she even beats Elbereth in terms of that, I think...)*


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 21, 2022)

It may be so! What an allotment of many titles those are!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 21, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> It may be so! What an allotment of many titles those are!


Well...I think there are too many...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 21, 2022)

There are many-- that is certain. I must also inquire, is it even physically possible that Namo had died? I think his fea simply left him and returned to his Halls. He was not ended, correct?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 21, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> There are many-- that is certain. I must also inquire, is it even physically possible that Namo had died? I think his fea simply left him and returned to his Halls. He was not ended, correct?


Yes, he was not - hence why the focus on only creating a new hróa - since, I'm guessing, it wouldn't be possible to end one of the Aratar like that. But still, it sounded ironic...

_But whatever - he's been restored anyway. _


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 29, 2022)

@Lithóniel

Must I say that upon this Moment of the Dagor Nielecilya between Amaniel and Ceuranivel, it is quite like Námo against Amaniel when she first came to his Halls in the Fourth Age. Truly, Time hath reversed itself yet again. I wish to see how this shall turn out...


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## Lithóniel (Aug 29, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> I wish to see how this shall turn out...


As do I…

We shall see very soon.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 29, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> As do I…
> 
> We shall see very soon.


How can you alter the Flow of Time? Only those with the Gift of Time may do so...don't tell me you learnt with Námo/Vaire in secret before the Fourth Age...?


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## Lithóniel (Aug 29, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> How can you alter the Flow of Time? Only those with the Gift of Time may do so...don't tell me you learnt with Námo/Vaire in secret before the Fourth Age...?


There are many things that I have picked up over time. This was the first time I’ve actually tried something even close to that though…


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 29, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> There are many things that I have picked up over time. This was the first time I’ve actually tried something even close to that though…


Well, is making Prophecies your portion too? In fact, don't...I don't want a Prophecy of Doom on me...I shouldn't have said that...forget it...


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## Lithóniel (Aug 29, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Well, is making Prophecies your portion too? In fact, don't...I don't want a Prophecy of Doom on me...I shouldn't have said that...forget it...


Hahaha I’m not sure that I would want to do that. I wouldn’t want to know the future until it comes.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 29, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> Hahaha I’m not sure that I would want to do that. I wouldn’t want to know the future until it comes.


Time...yes...it changes with ev'ry Moment as it rises and falls. Yet Time and Fate are interlinked. Thus, both are unchangeable...


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## Lithóniel (Aug 29, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> Time...yes...it changes with ev'ry Moment as it rises and falls. Yet Time and Fate are interlinked. Thus, both are unchangeable...


Yes, very true. I’m afraid I must go now. If you must, you can always play my part. 😊


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 29, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> Yes, very true. I’m afraid I must go now. If you must, you can always play my part. 😊


Ah - I see. I shall see what comes...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Here we may speak about it...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Here we may speak about it...


Yes...we may indeed. For Airanin shall return, right? And also Varda, should I say. Yet still, what Námo had said earlier about "bringing to restoration [her] Power of Time", shall still come forth, right?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Hmm... I don't know. Would Time even do that? I mean, no offense to Namo (seriously NONE) but it doesn't seem like he would know that much about the Two Trees at all? Time isn't everything... exactly... but neither is Wind, and look who is the King of the Valar so..


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> neither is Wind, and look who is the King of the Valar so..


Wow - Varda, Queen of Arda, going against thy spouse? Truly...I did not expect this!

But all aside, Time lay as the foundation of all, doth it not?

(And Ilúvatar is spelt with one "l", not two, I think...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

You are correct-- my mistake! Sorry!

I don't know... Time does stand as the stage for everything, but not the beginning. What was there before there was? (Wow... This is deep...)

Not against, but frequently I must ponder how that of two of the Valar became the King and Queen. I think oft that it is because they are of the skies, Wind and Stars, and close to the Heavens for such reasoning, which is the traditional place of Light and even of Life. Origins of Life are usually that of the Heavens, and that is where such deity would dwell. For that purpose, I believe that Iluvatar established the two Valar Manwe and Varda, the Valar of the Skies, as the High King and Queen of the Valar, and of Arda... But that has just been my most logical conclusion.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You are correct-- my mistake! Sorry!
> 
> I don't know... Time does stand as the stage for everything, but not the beginning. What was there before there was? (Wow... This is deep...)
> 
> Not against, but frequently I must ponder how that of two of the Valar became the King and Queen. I think oft that it is because they are of the skies, Wind and Stars, and close to the Heavens for such reasoning, which is the traditional place of Light and even of Life. Origins of Life are usually that of the Heavens, and that is where such deity would dwell. For that purpose, I believe that Iluvatar established the two Valar Manwe and Varda, the Valar of the Skies, as the High King and Queen of the Valar, and of Arda... But that has just been my most logical conclusion.


And thus would I agree with all you have said.

_What was there before there was? Ask not me, Varda. Though my portion may be of Time, such question is one e'en I cannot answer, and mayhap Námo himself would know, yet he hath not revealed it..._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lesson learned - just *don't* speak with Morgoth...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Apparently not soon enough.... Now what are we going to do.. First Varda, now you... These Valar are falling like dominoes...😭


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Apparently not soon enough.... Now what are we going to do.. First Varda, now you... These Valar are falling like dominoes...😭


You had better be glad that my _hróa_ didn't fade like yours did...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Oh, don't worry. At least I *should *be back in 3 days time... If I'm not, well, bad news...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Oh, don't worry. At least I *should *be back in 3 days time... If I'm not, well, bad news...


When Námo two Moments earlier said that Varda would be the first to come back...then look who fell next in the likeness of both...!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

All joking aside, this is terrible. I think once we get the Valar back, and maybe, maybe Airanin, we should keep the Valar up and running... This is getting a bit too concerning. I feel Morgoth is preparing for something, for something very great.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> All joking aside, this is terrible. I think once we get the Valar back, and maybe, maybe Airanin, we should keep the Valar up and running... This is getting a bit too concerning. I feel Morgoth is preparing for something, for something very great.


Indeed. Illusions they may be - but Dagor Dagorath is drawing near.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

'Tis true. Oh! When that battle draws near... Oh that will be an interesting roleplay element..


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> 'Tis true. Oh! When that battle draws near... Oh that will be an interesting roleplay element..


The first thing I'm thinking is this:

_Shall Námo fall *again?*_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Why would he?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Why would he?


Yes - I hope not. Unless Morgoth himself comes against him first - but that fallen Vala shall have to get through me first...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Always the thought of Namo....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Always the thought of Namo....


Indeed. Are the two of us not similar? One, in fact?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

This is what I said to Námo, Lithóniel...

_"And as for Ceuranivel, I shall bind her here to these Halls by my very Will, upon these lower grounds, and I shall keep watchful eye o'er here, and diminish her Power for these three days so that she shalt ne'er again meddle with Time, as each day fades away as though an entire Age hath passed."

"After all this hath come to pass, indeed this Telerin Elf shalt be released by my Will when I deem it to be so, and she may wander the vast borders of Valinor for as long as she wishes, and as wide as her desire may take her! For indeed by then, the fate of Varda shalt be decided, and indeed by then, Ceuranivel shall have little part to play in this! For ne'er had she understood the mysteries of Time!"_


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## Lithóniel (Aug 31, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> This is what I said to Námo, Lithóniel...
> 
> _"And as for Ceuranivel, I shall bind her here to these Halls by my very Will, upon these lower grounds, and I shall keep watchful eye o'er here, and diminish her Power for these three days so that she shalt ne'er again meddle with Time, as each day fades away as though an entire Age hath passed."
> 
> "After all this hath come to pass, indeed this Telerin Elf shalt be released by my Will when I deem it to be so, and she may wander the vast borders of Valinor for as long as she wishes, and as wide as her desire may take her! For indeed by then, the fate of Varda shalt be decided, and indeed by then, Ceuranivel shall have little part to play in this! For ne'er had she understood the mysteries of Time!"_


Ah, I see. I just finished catching up. You two have done a lot! It’s wonderful!


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## Lithóniel (Aug 31, 2022)

I hope we can bring Varda back though, because if not…


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> Ah, I see. I just finished catching up. You two have done a lot! It’s wonderful!


Thank you! But indeed, your féa blazes with much passion.

_Yet a sad and unfortunate turn indeed you have: I,, by my own Will, will not bring her back. Such is the bidding of Ilúvatar only._


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## Lithóniel (Aug 31, 2022)

Sad and unfortunate it is! My goodness I don’t know what I would do without Elbereth Githoniel.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> I don’t know what I would do without Elbereth Githoniel.


I don't know what I would do without Námo Mandos.


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## Lithóniel (Aug 31, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> I don't know what I would do without Námo Mandos.


Haha I knew you would say that.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> Haha I knew you would say that.


Yes. 

_Yet how dare you go against the Will of the Ninth Arata...dost thou intend to sunder my bond with Námo, Ceuranivel?_


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## Lithóniel (Aug 31, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> dost thou intend to sunder my bond with Námo, Ceuranivel?


No not at all! Some things are just… hmm how do I say this nicely… erm “more important” than your bond with Námo? (Oh dear that sounds terrible! Just forget I said it!)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> No not at all! Some things are just… hmm how do I say this nicely… erm “more important” than your bond with Námo? (Oh dear that sounds terrible! Just forget I said it!)


*More important than my bond with Námo? *These words of thine, I shall ne'er forget. Yet I know of what you wish to speak of. You speak of the fate of Arda. I shall reveal it then. If my bond with Námo is sundered once more, I will fade, then mayhap Námo himself, then Vaire, then Irmo...then many others, one after the other...

_Dost thou now see why? My bond with Námo holds all. E'en the fate of Varda requires communication betwixt I and Námo._


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## Lithóniel (Aug 31, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> *More important than my bond with Námo? *These words of thine, I shall ne'er forget. Yet I know of what you wish to speak of. You speak of the fate of Arda. I shall reveal it then. If my bond with Námo is sundered once more, I will fade, then mayhap Námo himself, then Vaire, then Irmo...then many others, one after the other...
> 
> _Dost thou know see why? My bond with Námo holds all. E'en the fate of Varda requires communication betwixt I and Námo._


Yes I see now. That’s why I regret the words I have said.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lithóniel said:


> Yes I see now. That’s why I regret the words I have said.


Pardon you need not seek, for I knew of the desires of thy _féa_, yet it seemed thy words earlier were *almost* fatally flawed...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

You truly believe that *nothing *is more important than your bond with Namo? Wrongly do you speak... How can it be so...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You truly believe that *nothing *is more important than your bond with Namo? Wrongly do you speak... How can it be so...


Arda and her fate is first. My bond with Námo is only slightly lesser. _*Only slightly.*_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

In what way? Does no other bond of Maiar matter? What of Ceuranivel? Tarmeniel? Do their Valarin bonds not matter? Is it only you of importance?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> In what way? Does no other bond of Maiar matter? What of Ceuranivel? Tarmeniel? Do their Valarin bonds not matter? Is it only you of importance?


What bond have I had with Ceuranivel and Tarmeniel? Too little! Their respective bonds are their portion only, are they not?

_(And we can just imagine I gave back Tarmeniel's cloak after the Dagor Airanáro ended, okay? It was ne'er explicitly stated though... _😂_)_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Always the thought of yourself, only too much akin to Moringotto. I speak not of their bonds with you, but with others, their own Valie, do you count these as of little importance?

_( Alright.. I would hope you gave it back, but did you, or did you keep it? Who had it at the end?)_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Always the thought of yourself, only too much akin to Moringotto. I speak not of their bonds with you, but with others, their own Valie, do you count these as of little importance?


Akin to Moringotto? Nay, it cannot be so! The Prophecy was fulfilled by Airanin - nay, Aicanárin, shalt I say!


Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _( Alright.. I would hope you gave it back, but did you, or did you keep it? Who had it at the end?)_


_(Technically if one follows the plot, 'tis I who held it. Yet much there is that remains concealed. One could assume it was given back, right?)_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

But indeed it is so... For only did you think of yourself, and sundered bonds with Light for Doom, mayhaps such prophecy was only partly fulfilled, and was not brought to completion for that you fought her, and your Maia fell slain before the End. And so mayhaps it is yours to finish, for akin to Morgoth you now stand.

_(One could assume, if it is desired.)_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> But indeed it is so... For only did you think of yourself, and sundered bonds with Light for Doom, mayhaps such prophecy was only partly fulfilled, and was not brought to completion for that you fought her, and your Maia fell slain before the End. And so mayhaps it is yours to finish, for akin to Morgoth you now stand.


There standeth difference betwixt the Shadow of Doom and the Darkness of Evil! Canst thou not understand this?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Indeed this I understand well, and yet Darkness it is, for whether by Shadow or by Curtain of Night, it is into the paths of Darkness ye now tread, and such e'er was the portion of Morgoth.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed this I understand well, and yet Darkness it is, for whether by Shadow or by Curtain of Night, it is into the paths of Darkness ye now tread, and such e'er was the portion of Morgoth.


How greatly doth this grieve me so! Is there no Hope for the return of my Light?

_(Might as well have that Prophecy reversed back on to me again, then...)_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

Indeed it would grieve thee, and yet I am one of constant belief in Hope. Hope stands always, and never does it fade. 

_(I guess so... Are you ever going to escape it? I mean, seriously, we've been talking about this since the day I joined...)_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _(I guess so... Are you ever going to escape it? I mean, seriously, we've been talking about this since the day I joined...)_


_Prophecies are ne'er fulfilled in one go, Elbereth. _


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

_( I guess that is true... Now I am wondering if you gave back Tarmeniel's necklace... did you?)_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _( I guess that is true... Now I am wondering if you gave back Tarmeniel's necklace... did you?)_


_(Ah - that, we can assume I did also...)_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

_( I see... You are really getting good at changing the Past.. huh?)_


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _( I see... You are really getting good at changing the Past.. huh?)_


(Time is my portion...or maybe not anymore, now that 'tis mingled with Darkness once more...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

(That Darkness is truly weighing on you, yes? Avaro naeth. You're the main character... I think that you'll, survive.)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 31, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (That Darkness is truly weighing on you, yes? Avaro naeth. You're the main character... I think that you'll, survive.)


(Survive thanks to Námo again, right before the sundering of a bond. Is it not, once more? Indeed, Valinor shall fall.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Aug 31, 2022)

(Well... How did you survive due to Namo? Valinor shall NOT fall! Why would that happen? Why would you even say that?)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (Well... How did you survive due to Namo? Valinor shall NOT fall! Why would that happen? Why would you even say that?)


(And I thought Námo was the one who said that earlier at some point. But indeed now do I see that Valinóre shall not fall.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

(I feel it shall not. I don't know if Namo said that, yet he did speak of the fall of Almathil, your own region, yes?)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (I feel it shall not. I don't know if Namo said that, yet he did speak of the fall of Almathil, your own region, yes?)


(Indeed. It has already fallen, and so has Elderyn. And four days henceforth (three has passed already) shall the Trees fall also, and Valinor be darkened once more. Yet not all Hope is lost.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

(Of course it is not all lost, and yet little Hope there seems, for now does Dagor Dagorath draw ever closer.)

Also, It was a very unthought of decision to have Alcar speak in verse, and yet I have become quite fond of it-- as poetry I hold e'er dear.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (Of course it is not all lost, and yet little Hope there seems, for now does Dagor Dagorath draw ever closer.)


Indeed it does. Remember how Amaniel caused Yavanna's forests to become lifeless with just a wave of her arm? It may naturally be Námo's portion - yet still, Morgoth will use such to his advantage - bringing out Amaniel's hidden Shadow and Darkness, and thus the Trees would fall.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

Yes indeed I do remember that. I believe it is because Namo has such as his portion as ruler of Fate and of Time. He may either restore or corrupt, by a single movement. Of course Morgoth shall use such, and I trust use it much. Amaniel will fall to Darkness, even though it is not her intent. Upon the coming to Angband, how would she not fall into corruption. I feel well that she shall, sad as it remains.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yes indeed I do remember that. I believe it is because Namo has such as his portion as ruler of Fate and of Time. He may either restore or corrupt, by a single movement. Of course Morgoth shall use such, and I trust use it much. Amaniel will fall to Darkness, even though it is not her intent. Upon the coming to Angband, how would she not fall into corruption. I feel well that she shall, sad as it remains.


She shall - yet upon her deepest concealments she knows that her plan is (at least meant to be) pretence. She would cloak herself in darkness of her own, not fell or ill, yet still of Shadow, so that the garments and diadems of Námo and Vaire are utterly concealed from Morgoth. Her first words as she reaches Angband would be the following:

_Aiya, aiya! Moringotto, Anmeletya o i Valar!
(Hail, hail! Morgoth, Most Powerful of the Valar!)_

This opening line, Morgoth would indeed fall for - seeking power has ever been the portion of the Fallen One - and thus, Amaniel shall be delivered into the deepest dungeons of Angband. There shall we see some of her greatest paradoxical moments - of both Light and Darkness, conflicting e'ermore, yet her thoughts of Light shall be concealed, and only pretence of Darkness shall she reveal in front of the Fallen One, so that she may not be discovered of betrayal. One could also presume that Alcar remains...well, somewhere. Would she return to Valinor so swiftly? Surely I do not think Morgoth would ever allow her to enter Angband - neither would Amaniel, for such would reveal her true identity, and all that has been upon her.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

A good plan indeed it seems. 

Also-- my apologies for going so long with the past post; I cannot resist these songs.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> A good plan indeed it seems.
> 
> Also-- my apologies for going so long with the past post; I cannot resist these songs.


Nay, avaro naeth! You have done well!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

A! Hannon-le! It wasn't supposed to go that long... but once you give some Valier a part, it seems excluding to reject others.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> A! Hannon-le! It wasn't supposed to go that long... but once you give some Valier a part, it seems excluding to reject others.


Yes...it would seem so. Avaro naeth. Time is only a Moment for the Ninth Arata (okay, maybe partially fallen, but still...).


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

My goodness, playing Melkor is a whole new front for me. Indeed I had some rather brief introduction through the fall of Mandos, but this is quite the transition...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> My goodness, playing Melkor is a whole new front for me. Indeed I had some rather brief introduction through the fall of Mandos, but this is quite the transition...


After all, who are you again? Elbereth, of course. They are foils to the extreme. Yet I have faith in your Light. You can do it.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

'Tis true, it is Light that I love, and Hope my portion-- this is so out of my league.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> 'Tis true, it is Light that I love, and Hope my portion-- this is so out of my league.


Out of your league, out of your comfort zone - yet how may one learn if they keep standing in a bubble of comfort? They cannot.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 1, 2022)

Indeed, 'tis true. And so I embark further than comfort allows.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

I can only imagine this is what Valinor looks like after Amaniel sends forth her single wave:



Completely lifeless and darkened (the Two Trees have fallen, and no Light is left in the Blessed Realm), as sad and unfortunate as it is, for only such may herald the coming of the End (Dagor Dagorath).

Now compare it with Moments of the Past, where Light lay Abounding:



Vastly different, is it not? But it also gives a visual insight of Amaniel's latent Power.

(Disclaimer: I own none of the images. They are from the Rings of Power series, I believe.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Beautiful! 

'Tis sad yet indeed. (Have you seen the series? I cannot.)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> 'Tis sad yet indeed. (Have you seen the series? I cannot.)


(Nay. Neither can I. That was a single short clip that I happened to come across - under a minute.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

(Same. The clips are good. I have a (very) few IRL Tolkien-friends, so I may ask if I can watch with them)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (Same. The clips are good. I have a (very) few IRL Tolkien-friends, so I may ask if I can watch with them)


(Ah, I see. May Hope and luck be on your side then.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

(Thanks.) Also this should be quite the battle. Are all the Valar, and all the Maiar, and even the Eldar fighting? This will be something positively spectacular, and yet a Day of Doom in all lands.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (Thanks.) Also this should be quite the battle. Are all the Valar, and all the Maiar, and even the Eldar fighting? This will be something positively spectacular, and yet a Day of Doom in all lands.


The Valar and Maiar? Yes. 

The Eldar? Yes, they will, and many will fall, and greatly doth this grieve me so. 

But what of the Edain? In the original it is prophesised that Túrin will slay Morgoth. I am thinking that with Amaniel wielding Lúmornacil, it paints a similar parallel to Túrin wielding Gurthang, does it not? Therefore, she could take his place. Yet what next?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Indeed. I don't quite know who all shall fight and how it shall fall in the end. For this battle lasts long, yes? Days over, does it not?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed. I don't quite know who all shall fight and how it shall fall in the end. For this battle lasts long, yes? Days over, does it not?


Yes. For many days shall it be, and each day shall pass slowly, as if an entire Age had flown through. Such is the nature of the End of All Things...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Yet all things shall not end, shall they? Shall all be slain? It cannot be!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yet all things shall not end, shall they? Shall all be slain? It cannot be!


Nay! Not all! Not all!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Relief you bring! But who? Who shall fall?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Relief you bring! But who? Who shall fall?


Upon the day that the battle starts, I shall stand beside Morgoth, yet I shall send in secret thought to you first, as follows:

_"Gilthoniel. Bide time with me. Come to me and thus we shall engage in combat, and here my pretence may be fulfilled. Such will trick Morgoth into thinking I am on his side. Bide time with me. I will come to you first, and raise my sword against you first, yet I intend not to harm you."_

Thus upon that Moment shall the Ulúmuri sound, and all shall move forth, and the two of us shall meet.

Truly, I know not of who shall fall...Námo hath not revealed it to me yet, for I am slowly becoming distant from me, yet not fully.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Slowly you are falling to darkness, are you not?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Slowly you are falling to darkness, are you not?


Truly, I hope not. Yet his Prophecies were ne'er astray...and you know what this means...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Oh no... I hope he saw it wrong, but you're right. He never does see them wrong.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Oh no... I hope he saw it wrong, but you're right. He never does see them wrong.


Indeed. Even I have gone against the words of Námo himself. Once my most beloved Vala. For Time rules all, yet I wonder why I said it would fade...

Truly, I am falling, am I not? How greatly doth this grieve me so! Such words were not of my own Will, and truly I wish for them not to be, yet I have said them despite all...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

You did say such, and under no allegiance to Melkor did you. For he forced not such words to escape you (Yet Eru only knows what he would have done if you rejected them).


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You did say such, and under no allegiance to Melkor did you. For he forced not such words to escape you (Yet Eru only knows what he would have done if you rejected them).


Yes. Yet I fear that his Darkness will take over my own as Time goes on. And that...will not end well...!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Indeed. For as you draw near in battle, mayhap your mind shall change and your will be darkened, and in Darkness you shall act, sad as it remains.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed. For as you draw near in battle, mayhap your mind shall change and your will be darkened, and in Darkness you shall act, sad as it remains.


The thing I shall fear most by then is not the piercing Light of Elbereth, but rather that (two things):

1) If I fall into Darkness, yet have not the courage to end any of you, and thus Morgoth will mayhap end me (but in fact, I don't fear him ending me, actually...)
2) I wish not to be on the side of Morgoth, yet I have not the Light to save Námo, Vaire, Elbereth, or any of the Valar when Morgoth comes against them...!

See how those two are complete opposites? Still the Paradox of Dawn and Doom do I hold...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Into quite the bondage have you brought yourself, and naught can aid you, it seems.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Into quite the bondage have you brought yourself, and naught can aid you, it seems.


Indeed...none can aid me...truly I am sundered from all now, am I not?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

I feel you may be, and yet does Hope remain with Alcar? Indeed, she may aid you yet?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I feel you may be, and yet does Hope remain with Alcar? Indeed, she may aid you yet?


I wonder where she is. For she must be outside Angband, yes? Why would she have Hope for one who has fallen? I may barely be able to utter the name of Elbereth, yet I cannot e'en bring myself to utter the name of Almalaurie! How lamentable it is indeed, that my own name would pierce me harsher than yours!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Alcar was with you, by your side, and swore to aid you. Mayhap she would not have such power, yet if well she did, I feel that she should use such.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Alcar was with you, by your side, and swore to aid you. Mayhap she would not have such power, yet if well she did, I feel that she should use such.


Let us Hope she will! Truly, it seems I need her soon!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

It does indeed seem to be so!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> It does indeed seem to be so!


Yes - perhaps Alcar is the only one who may aid me. And truly, by the Will of my _féa_, I would ne'er wish to see Morgoth e'er again. Yet look at where I dwell now. Angband, out of all places!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

You will most likely see Morgoth again, for indeed it is from him you will draw power, thus sundering many things, e'en your bond with Namo! Oh how for you I grieve it so!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You will most likely see Morgoth again, for indeed it is from him you will draw power, thus sundering many things, e'en your bond with Namo! Oh how for you I grieve it so!


Even my bond with Námo? Speak of this not! Ne'er shall it be sundered! My allegiance lies with the Valar e'ermore! 

Ai, Elbereth - two days passes too swift for the Valar! Had you forgotten of what I wield? The Gift of Time, is it not? Such is not known to Morgoth, and neither is it his portion. Therefore, he will ne'er know...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Indeed it is so. Your allegiance now lay with Morgoth. Once he has granted you power, it is only him you shall serve, you know of this, do you not? You have sent yourself into this.

Indeed.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed it is so. Your allegiance now lay with Morgoth. Once he has granted you power, it is only him you shall serve, you know of this, do you not? You have sent yourself into this.
> 
> Indeed.


Nay. I shall break out of it. I form no bond and no allegiance with the Fallen One.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Hath you not already? And surely once you move with his power in you, you stand no longer as Valar, but as Maiarin, and of him.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Hath you not already? And surely once you move with his power in you, you stand no longer as Valar, but as Maiarin, and of him.


*I am not Aicanárin. Name me not in her likeness! I shall be no Maia of Morgoth! Ne'er! Still shall I e'er be the Ninth Arata!*

(And don't write it as such either...will you not give me a chance for my Light to be brought back? Not e'en a single chance? It cannot be so!)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

You shall have chance, indeed you shall. But now I question many things... Do you fall now to darkness? Would this pretence fulfill the prophecy?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You shall have chance, indeed you shall. But now I question many things... Do you fall now to darkness? Would this pretence fulfill the prophecy?


Nay. I have gone against it. Now see who my allegiance truly lies with. For 'tis certainly not Morgoth.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

I see you plans, and yet I fear that they shall not be so easily fulfilled, more Morgoth is cunning, and indeed he hath remembered your power.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I see you plans, and yet I fear that they shall not be so easily fulfilled, more Morgoth is cunning, and indeed he hath remembered your power.


So be it! I have my own plans also, and if they fail, then at least I have bode Time to allow the hosts of the Valar to come forth in victory!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Indeed-- and yet you hath forgotten that in the place of Angband, power you hold little, and the master of the domain is him that rules them.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed-- and yet you hath forgotten that in the place of Angband, power you hold little, and the master of the domain is him that rules them.


Indeed - I forgot of his power that is ever concealed also! How unfortunate that I am now chained with spikes of poison!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

You'll be fine, you are Valar after all. Don't worry. I just thought that Melkor is cruel, and so such would be his portion. But Avaro naeth. I shall not deeply harm ye.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You'll be fine, you are Valar after all. Don't worry. I just thought that Melkor is cruel, and so such would be his portion. But Avaro naeth. I shall not deeply harm ye.


"I shall not deeply harm ye."

You're not Morgoth, that's why. You're speaking as Elbereth.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

'Tis true. I shall keep you in my care and aideth you. I shall be with you.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> 'Tis true. I shall keep you in my care and aideth you. I shall be with you.


Indeed. And also shall Námo, for he is swift within the Bounds of Time.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Indeed he is, and yet I did envision such things to come to pass, that Morgoth would chain thee, and that Namo would fail in thy rescue. What now may save?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed he is, and yet I did envision such things to come to pass, that Morgoth would chain thee, and that Namo would fail in thy rescue. What now may save?


Indeed - I am wondering also. Alcar mayhap, yet she stands little chance - or does she?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Ah, indeed it may be so, yet against the chains that bind you? What would save?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Ah, indeed it may be so, yet against the chains that bind you? What would save?


Indeed. Thus, Lúmornacil stood as a Power of its own, for it is no ordinary sword. Enchanted it remains, and it serves none other than the Will of Amaniel. Thus, Morgoth cannot keep it for long...a fool to think that he could steal such that was rightfully mine! (Great, now I sound like Féanor...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

(You do... What next? Swear an oath to hunt out any who takes it? Just kidding...)

Mandos is really enduring for you, I mean if that does not show deep care and love, I don't know what does. That is very selfless.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Mandos is really enduring for you, I mean if that does not show deep care and love, I don't know what does. That is very selfless.


Indeed. Now see who is in the likeness of Varda, "a self-sacrificing individual [he has] become."

Well, almost. He will live. I am sure of it. And make it happen...will you?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Oh, yes! I do not intend for actually anymore of the Valar to die, since Valar don't die, they just meet Iluvatar and then come back. So I think honestly, them being chained, or captured, struck with blows, whatever, is actually much more potent, and also realistic. So, yes. Namo will survive. You need not worry.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Oh, yes! I do not intend for actually anymore of the Valar to die, since Valar don't die, they just meet Iluvatar and then come back. So I think honestly, them being chained, or captured, struck with blows, whatever, is actually much more potent, and also realistic. So, yes. Namo will survive. You need not worry.


Yet of course, Amaniel would think otherwise, especially in _that_ Moment of Time...

_Truly, they've been through a lot, haven't they? O'er and o'er again Fate hath tried to sunder them, only to bring them back, time and time again. Now both may be scorched with Flames, yet still, they will not fall. Not when it is only the Beginning of the End. Still, 'tis a beautiful Moment, tinged with sadness, to see them suffer the same Fate of being burned by the flames of Morgoth._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Indeed. It is both piercingly sad, and yet beautiful. For even after he had felt she had turned, and that he had called her as Mornedhel, still did he suffer the flames of Angband in order to save her.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed. It is both piercingly sad, and yet beautiful. For even after he had felt she had turned, and that he had called her as Mornedhel, still did he suffer the flames of Angband in order to save her.


Yet Mornedhel no longer. Truly deep down, he knows she is Amaniel, "ninya Almalaurie". Áramande, even.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Yes. He knows that now deeply. For Amaniel he named her once more, in his words of love amidst the flames on Angband.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

"Immediately did Amaniel leap up with whatever strength still lay within her, and she pushed Námo downwards into the ground..."

This does indeed create suspense, does it not? Almost as though, one would wonder if she decides to turn against the Valar again. Of course, she would ne'er do such. Look, she even meddled with Time to send them to Valinor to get them healed...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

It does. I thought perhaps it was a mistake, since pushing him to the ground makes no sense. There may still be some Darkness in her, sad as it is... Since pushing him to the ground was what precisely had happened, that his face was plunged into the ash and dirt...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> It does. I thought perhaps it was a mistake, since pushing him to the ground makes no sense. There may still be some Darkness in her, sad as it is... Since pushing him to the ground was what precisely had happened, that his face was plunged into the ash and dirt...


Based on my understanding, it happened _before_ she pushed him in...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

What say ye? What before what? I'm getting confused..


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> What say ye? What before what? I'm getting confused..


Ah, well. The ash and dirt hit him before she pushed him to the ground. By pushing him into the ground, Amaniel basically prevented him from getting marred any further.


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## Lithóniel (Sep 2, 2022)

Oh my… I have a lot of catching up to do. 😳


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Oh, I see, Vilisse. Smart.

And yes Lithoniel, you do! But it will be fun-- without doubt!

Also Vilisse-- I'll be off for 20-30 mins but will be back!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

I love how Morgoth doesn't know that illusions are Amaniel's portion as an Arata...intrigued he will be indeed! He hath only found out Time, after all, and only the surface of it.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

I know. Morgoth knows actually very little about her powers, and doesn't seem to have much knowledge of them whatsoever.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I know. Morgoth knows actually very little about her powers, and doesn't seem to have much knowledge of them whatsoever.


He is not meant to either. His seeking of Power shall be his very downfall, for no Power may he hold in truth.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Indeed.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Morgoth relies on physical Power much, as far as I can see of his ways - yet mine is of the _féa_, and such he knows naught of. Surprising it may seem to him indeed, that the mere words and Will of my own may end so many of his fell creatures.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

Yeah... But the problem is, the Valar need to start fighting on their own turf. Morgoth has way too much power here just cause he owns the land and it is his Realm. He can easily get reinforcements while the Valar have their Hosts in Valinor, and not where they are needed.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yeah... But the problem is, the Valar need to start fighting on their own turf. Morgoth has way too much power here just cause he owns the land and it is his Realm. He can easily get reinforcements while the Valar have their Hosts in Valinor, and not where they are needed.


And all problems aside - he now has all my power. Time, Memory, Illusion, Stars. What may take him down now?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

I don't know, but the Valar have ALL power, so that should help, but then again, you had a lot of power, and now it is all Morgoth's.... this doesn't look good.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I don't know, but the Valar have ALL power, so that should help, but then again, you had a lot of power, and now it is all Morgoth's.... this doesn't look good.


Indeed...it does not...unfortunately...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

I know, and even going after Namo.... This might not end well.. And Manwe captured. Yikes.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

I thought we had agreed that no one would die?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I thought we had agreed that no one would die?


Well, Fate may indeed have changed such...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

But it cannot be so! The whole reincarnation thing has become rather odd and even not canon. I think we should probably just not do that element since it is always a rather strange thing...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> But it cannot be so! The whole reincarnation thing has become rather odd and even not canon. I think we should probably just not do that element since it is always a rather strange thing...


(We've literally changed so much against canon though...  )


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

(Indeed. But I think it is odd, and it has happened SO many times that it just doesn't have much to it anymore... I'm sorry, but it just seems to repeat. I personally don't like the element in our RP, and think it should end.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (Indeed. But I think it is odd, and it has happened SO many times that it just doesn't have much to it anymore... I'm sorry, but it just seems to repeat. I personally don't like the element in our RP, and think it should end.


(We could make this the last time, if you want...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

(Hmm... I don't know. You can always modify it you know, and not do it. You can edit posts, and I don't even think anyone has seen it yet but us.)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (Hmm... I don't know. You can always modify it you know, and not do it. You can edit posts, and I don't even think anyone has seen it yet but us.)


(Let it be so...but I'll have to think of it first. Maybe I'll reply tomorrow.  )


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 2, 2022)

(No problem! I can have a reply at any time. I appreciate your flexibility, but indeed reversing Time is a portion you are akin to, nay?)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (No problem! I can have a reply at any time. I appreciate your flexibility, but indeed reversing Time is a portion you are akin to, nay?)


(Yes! Akin to it I am indeed, and will be e'ermore! So...let it be so! Estel imíca Lúme!)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 2, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yeah... But the problem is, the Valar need to start fighting on their own turf. Morgoth has way too much power here just cause he owns the land and it is his Realm. He can easily get reinforcements while the Valar have their Hosts in Valinor, and not where they are needed.


Questions do arise here - I thought that many of the Eldar and Maiar would have come forth with the Valar at the very beginning of the Dagor Dagorath? (Though do indeed tell me if anywhere earlier I apparently contradicted such thought through my posts.)

If they are already there, why would they then have to call for reinforcements from Valinor? The entire Host of the Valar (which included the Valar, the Maiar, and most Eldar) came forth altogether to Angband, did they not?

Also, it seems very unlikely that the setting of the battle would move to anywhere else, considering that Morgoth is too cowardly to face battle in any other realm other than his own - but I may have misunderstood your words earlier. (Again, do correct me if such was the case.)

In addition, if Morgoth took all of Amaniel's power, then that means he would have taken the Power of her Silmaril also, and that would be embedded deep within him. Yet such Light is one he cannot stand, and it will scorch him greatly, and cause him inexorable agony. After all, I did say that his own seeking for Power shall lead to his own downfall. As Námo once said to Amaniel:

_"The desires of your heart shall be the enemies of your livelihood."_

Yet now I think this perfectly captures Morgoth's desires for Power, though in the end it will take him down swiftly.

What are your thoughts? ​


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 3, 2022)

When you combine the aesthetics of the Halls of Mandos and Taniquetil together:



Always thought that could be Amaniel in the image (but it certainly doesn't look quite like Námo's Halls, yet not too far from them either!).

(Disclaimer: Artwork is not mine, and belong to their rightful owner(s).)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 25, 2022)

That is beautiful.

Glad to be back for the RP too. There were some unresolved issues....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 25, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> That is beautiful.
> 
> Glad to be back for the RP too. There were some unresolved issues....


I see... 

_E'er shalt I welcome thee back, for thy Light shineth Abounding!_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 25, 2022)

I thank you for that very much. Hannon-le!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 26, 2022)

Tom Bombadil and Goldberry...their bond is merry and full of light, unlike my bond with Námo...

And I know exactly who may giveth me such a bond of fair Light and Hope...

'Tis thou, Varda...

Yet the bond of Time and Fate is stronger than that of Starlight...

Far stronger...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 26, 2022)

Remember also that their bond is different. All are. Even with Varda the tones of Starlight and beauty will fall differently than with another. Yet a light and glad bond you will never have with Namo. Such is not his portion.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yet a light and glad bond you will never have with Namo. Such is not his portion.


Half-content am I with that...let us see what he shalt do, if I go against him. Not in fullness, for still do I love him, yet my desire is great.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 26, 2022)

I think there is some evident jealousy of his towards Manwe and Varda that they are the High-king and Queen, and he is not... 

I know you won't go against him completely, yet at this time you have nothing to use at all.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I know you won't go against him completely, yet at this time you have nothing to use at all.


Indeed - such is not my desire, and ne'er hath been.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 26, 2022)

Indeed. This I had thought.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 27, 2022)

Yet I remaining with Námo thus means you cannot be with me, right? A sad and unfortunate turn indeed do you have.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 27, 2022)

I don't know honestly. Where Elbereth is currently is a mystery... Yet since she went to Angband, and Manwe had been captured, It cannot be good.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I don't know honestly. Where Elbereth is currently is a mystery... Yet since she went to Angband, and Manwe had been captured, It cannot be good.


Indeed, it cannot be...

Yet what Námo and Amaniel shall do now also remains a mystery...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 27, 2022)

That it does.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> That it does.


And who knows of how long a mystery it shall remain, for e'en Time itself stands as a great mystery beyond all.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 25, 2022)

Is it not Amaniel who speaks when she runs forth to Elentári? 'Tis not Ilmare...where even is she? We've seen Eonwe, but Ilmare...?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

I don't think, if I make another RP, I shall ever open up with a Prophecy from Námo again. 

Amaniel's one took over 50 pages to get it resolved - or at least it seems so.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

Is it even fully resolved..?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Is it even fully resolved..?


And so the question and the prophecy remains unsolved...right?

For it seems Amaniel constantly wavers between Varda and Námo - but in the end, she must choose only one.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

Yes, it is almost a battle between Stars and Time.... 

Yet I should be certain Elbereth would not choose to fight if such laid before her, unless in justice and peace.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yes, it is almost a battle between Stars and Time....
> 
> Yet I should be certain Elbereth would not choose to fight if such laid before her, unless in justice and peace.


Yes - Elbereth would not. 

But Námo might...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

Namo probably would... Especially if he got Tulkas on board...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Namo probably would... Especially if he got Tulkas on board...


And would Amaniel still stand beside him again, though she is with Elentári for now?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

I don't know, and I really hope it does not come to that.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I don't know, and I really hope it does not come to that.​


_Of course...you as Elbereth...

Of course you would want Amaniel by your side...

Yet have you e'er considered the grief that Námo would feel if Amaniel left him, and ne'er returned? 

Have you e'er envisioned such? Thought of such? Felt such? Nay, I think you have not.

Think of how long Amaniel hath been distant to you. She had ne'er faded because of that.

Yet only once was she sundered in bond with Námo, and so great was the grief and fragility of her féa that she would have gone to his Halls swiftly afterwards, had Námo himself not taken his words back upon that fateful day, and healed her upon Andanéya.

Tell me, Elbereth...is your bond with Amaniel truly as poignant as Námo's bond with her? Can the Stars e'er truly rule the passages of Time and the Tides of Fate?_​


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

_Ask not such of me, for great is my grievance upon the parting of this blossom._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

_Ilya fifru...

Ilya nánuquerna...

(All fade away...

All be reversed...)

Yet you know well of whose words these are..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

Indeed, and yet you may tell me their true meaning if you wish.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Indeed, and yet you may tell me their true meaning if you wish.


_Time reveal all to be seen.

That is all I shall say._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

_Indeed, for Time shall tell the tale of telling._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 26, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Indeed, for Time shall tell the tale of telling._


_Of which e'en the Stars cannot hold, Varda...

They cannot..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 26, 2022)

_Why do you say this? Stars harbor it all, for at their core they stand timeless._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Why do you say this? Stars harbor it all, for at their core they stand timeless._


_Ah, do they? Then mayhap I have not gazed far out enough...

Námo and Amaniel...e'er were they close, yet now...

Is this a battle for identity, or a fall into darkness?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

_Indeed it may be, for the step of committing all can only be felt in totality when all is giv'n. Therefore, the tear between Stars and Time must certainly stand a solemn opposer._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

_Indeed...they are opposed e'ermore..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

_Yes, and now ever the greater does this small discourse RP grow... Just wow._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> _Yes, and now ever the greater does this small discourse RP grow... Just wow._


And we have two. One in conversation, and the other in thread. I have a feeling they can be linked together.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

I would venture to guess that you are right in that inkling.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Maybe after the Dagor Dagorath, or some point within it, Námo comes against Elbereth, and Amaniel learns that Námo had deceived her all along? (Now see who hath fallen into Darkness...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Possibly, and yet still we have Manwe to worry about, and the fact that Amaniel has no power..


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Possibly, and yet still we have Manwe to worry about, and the fact that Amaniel has no power..


Amaniel already liberated Varda and Manwe from Morgoth's chains, nay?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

No, I do not believe so, and yet it may have happened, for some things go unwritten.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> No, I do not believe so, and yet it may have happened, for some things go unwritten.


Indeed. Yet not all may be assumed.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

True also.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

_Only now do I realise...

Airanin was right...

I should have gone with her...

Why did I choose Mandos over my own Maia?!_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

_Sadly, that is in the past now. She is gone, and ever will be. _


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

_Nay...is she truly gone? Shall she ne'er return...?

Can she not be brought back...?_


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Too many times has it been that they simply return, and for the Valar that makes sense, yet for Maiar, it does not. 

Melian did not go on living. Swiftly, she died. And did not return.

Sad, and yet still you may yet be given another Maiarin.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Wait - Melian died? When...?

Did she not return to the Undying Lands?

And another Maiarin? I truly hope that under my hand, they shall live in peace and gladness, preferably upon Taniquetil with us all...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

To the Undying Lands perhaps, yet even Valinor has fallen...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

_Hold Hope, Elbereth. Arda will be Healed.

And if this proveth to be a falsity, my heart shall grieve indeed._

Also, I read somewhere that 'tis said Dagor Dagorath would happen in the Seventh Age...and this _is _the Seventh Age...

Could we have been writing about the future all along?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

You say that it is currently the Seventh Age in reality or in the RP?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

According to Tolkien's timeline, if it becomes extended to the present era, it is the Seventh Age in reality...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Ai, true....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Ai, true....


And indeed I do feel it...the Darkness abounds e'er the greater, and the forces of Light, that have come from the Stars and beyond gather forth...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

The Light will prevail. Being a Catholic, and a firm one, I trust God. 

Just in case you don't know: Tolkien's Iluvatar, is a vivid depiction and representation for God.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Yes, indeed. I don't have an exact religion, but I believe in some higher power beyond us.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

It is a good place to be to believe. Just having Hope and keeping it is important. 

I know I emphasize it so much in the RP, but often it is what keeps me going in reality. Just knowing that there is a hope beyond the shadow of fear.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I know I emphasize it so much in the RP, but often it is what keeps me going in reality. Just knowing that there is a hope beyond the shadow of fear.


Exactly! Have you ever felt that the characters in our RP are almost parallels to ourselves in reality? Amaniel was based upon myself. A paradox, ever wanting to find her true purpose. A starseed that came from the Stars, and thus always has an non-vanquishable desire to return to them - hence Elbereth.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Yes, I have felt that. I don't know quite who I identify with most. Very possibly Ilmare, or even of my own design, Tarmeniel. 

Elbereth to me is like a mother in the RP, and being a Catholic, always calls to mind Mary.

However I think that RPs can actually be very useful, because they allow us to express ourselves and almost experiment and test limits and say things that maybe we never would, and through it I actually discover myself.

And also, I liken to Elbereth because I am majorly into astronomy too.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yes, I have felt that. I don't know quite who I identify with most. Very possibly Ilmare, or even of my own design, Tarmeniel.
> 
> Elbereth to me is like a mother in the RP, and being a Catholic, always calls to mind Mary.
> 
> ...


I agree. It's a beautiful medium for expression where the true power of words may be brought forth into full blossom, as that of the awakening of a thousand stars that descend gently upon the lands, showering them in Grace and Light...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Very much so. I love it, and it brings out so much of me, and my abilities to create, and even though we have practically never spoken totally OOC, I still feel like I know you, and well, perhaps better than just if I had spoken with you in a 'normal' way.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Very much so. I love it, and it brings out so much of me, and my abilities to create, and even though we have practically never spoken totally OOC, I still feel like I know you, and well, perhaps better than just if I had spoken with you in a 'normal' way.


Sometimes I feel speaking in character grants far more depth than speaking OOC.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

_Kindred souls that stand apart
Yet ne'er sundered shall they be.

The Stars watch o'er them
And gaze upon them in love and joy.

Ne'er distant are they
For 'tis held dear in their hearts.

Call for Light when you must
The Stars shall hearken to thee._

(And finally...no more words of Time and Fate in this one...! 😮😂)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Makes me think it is speaking of Ilmare and Amaniel, is this so?

(Finally-- a day I have long awaited!)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Makes me think it is speaking of Ilmare and Amaniel, is this so?


It could indeed - yet also of us OOC.

And let us hope this day lasts e'ermore - but I warn you - it will take me time for his words to gradually fade away from me...or mayhap suddenly. I know not.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Good point. I think we've formed a very unique friendship through this.

I know it won't-- good things take time. Yet now we tread in the right course of direction, and that is a start.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Good point. I think we've formed a very unique friendship through this.
> 
> I know it won't-- good things take time. Yet now we tread in the right course of direction, and that is a start.


Some Maia in the distance: Hey, how long does it take to be free from Mandos and his Halls?
Me: Would you like to wait for 13,500 years and see?
The same Maia: *visibly pales*


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

That's about right....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

It could have lasted forever, had you not come...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

I know, and the RP probably wouldn't be as far along without us. For better or worse, we really took to it.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I know, and the RP probably wouldn't be as far along without us. For better or worse, we really took to it.


Indeed...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

So, now what? Will you return to being Amaniel, or some variation of her name? Or will you stay as Nienna or switch to Ilmare?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> So, now what? Will you return to being Amaniel, or some variation of her name? Or will you stay as Nienna or switch to Ilmare?


It's either Ilmare...or...

In fact, I probably don't have another idea.

Aid me, if you may...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

You can always go back to being some variation of your own. Something tells me once Varda returns, especially if she sings, you will have an abundance of new choice names.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> You can always go back to being some variation of your own. Something tells me once Varda returns, especially if she sings, you will have an abundance of new choice names.


An abundance besides Éleniel and Élenlindale? I shall wait then...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Indeed, it may come... It truly may.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

It hope it shall not be another 15...

Or 12, now that the three names Mandos gave to me are nullified.

(And I wonder indeed - now I call him Mandos, nay Námo - that suggests something indeed...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

I doubt that. I don't think I'll overwhelm you with too many.. After all, variety is good to a point, but once that point is crossed, it just makes things more confusing.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Good point indeed.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

So not too many I should think, yet what inspires me in the moment is usually what makes it in. Nothing is pre-planned.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 27, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Nothing is pre-planned.


Such is the difference between you and Mandos.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 27, 2022)

Indeed.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

I wonder if we should go to a discourse between Mandos and Elbereth at any point, before bringing her back, of course.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Bringing who back? 

And I have a feeling Mandos and Elbereth will not get along well...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Bringing Elbereth back to Yavanna's forests, and going from there to Taniquetil.

I feel the same way, I just wonder if it should be included or not.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

That's what I had thought also. Why not include it then?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

We may. We would just have to find a way to incorporate it. Mayhaps when the two Maiar go to sleep.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Sounds reasonable, _ninya meldo._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

I shall try to incorporate it then.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Morgoth: Want to be denoted to Maiarin status?
Amaniel: Leave. And don't ever return.

Varda and Manwe: Want to relearn everything with us?
Amaniel: Like that of your Maiar? Sure, I'll take that.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Ai! How much it matters who is asking!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

And if Mandos asked now, Amaniel would give him the same answer as that of what she gave to Morgoth.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

That is true... But from Varda it is different. Intriguing.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Only too different. And from Manwe too, don't forget...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Indeed. So... where is Manwe? Is he upon Taniquetil still?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes - we need him to watch over Arda, nay? He and Eonwe remain upon there.

I'm surprising myself, that I can still write in Mandos' style of speech...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

I can write in Morgoth's, so all things are possible.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Ah, yes. Indeed you did.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yet all the same, I am thankful that Mandos isn't your default anymore.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

My default? I oft felt he ne'er truly was...especially when his ways gradually became more confining. My heart desired ever for Taniquetil, yet he bound me against his Will. My féa ne'er forsook the Light.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

I see... And yet you actually sundered a bond with Elbereth to remain with him.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

_I-

No...don't mention that...._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Okay. Sorry. Moving on...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Let us move on indeed...for the present moments are just as important as the past and future, if not more so. For without the present, where lies the past, and from where does the future come forth?

(Nice to know I can find a way out of Mandos' teachings now...  )


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes! The Important Present Moment! Finally!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

_That took such a long time to get out of...

And gladdened shalt thou be to know that these words came from my own heart, nay thine own, or of Manwe's, though I am sure your aid would have reached me nonetheless._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes, indeed..


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Yet Amaniel is as brave as e'er...I must say, stubborn, mayhap even. Definitely a hint of a Féanorian flame there with her words against Mandos.

And I don't mind her being returned to Maiarin status - she probably doesn't even feel like the position of Ninth Arata anymore...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Indeed. She is very fierce, and determined... It is wonderful.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

She fully knew Mandos would go against her after that, yet she spoke for the sake of Elbereth...

(And yes, Elbereth is in the illusion as well, but the spell of sleep was put only upon Mandos.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

I see... A bit confusing, but illusions are.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

To see that Amaniel even has some power over Ellbereth, highest of the Valier, through her illusions is quite alluring, I must say...

Elbereth even knows not of who she is...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes, but maybe Elbereth is not to know. It could be the power of Iluvatar also... You never know.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

That is indeed true. For all happens by His Will.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

True. And Manwe is probably awake, begging Iluvatar to spare his wife and daughters.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Indeed. Such seems highly likely.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes indeed.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Yet e'en he may intervene upon the direst of moments, in the subtlest of ways...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Who? Manwe?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes, for that gust of wind was sent by him, nay?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Indeed it was, and I should think it was by Iluvatar's will.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Indeed, for all happen by His Will.

And indeed, Amaniel never gives up, does she? Quite similar to what she did to Mandos in one of the battles to help him avoid the dust and ashes of Morgoth - yet now, one could argue it is for a vastly different purpose - who between the two has fallen into Darkness? Or is it both, but one deeper than the other? Since they are going against each other, going against their Kin, in a sense...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes, indeed... It is sad that such has come to this....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Yet Mandos' purpose is far darker than Amaniel's...no offense to him though...

Also...

Yavanna: Stay behind me, Amaniel.
Amaniel: Sorry, but you can't restrain me. None can.
Mandos: I'm about to reverse that...
Amaniel: No...don't...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

About right.. It is just so sad.. So very sad that it comes to this.. And I hate to point fingers, but it always happens with Mandos.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

*sighs* Yes...sadly it does...

_*"If those who abound within the realm of life would not speak ill of the dead, why would those who abound within the realm of death speak ill of the living?" - Amaniel (to Mandos)*_​
(For some reason this came to my mind, and I just had to put it here...but it hasn't come up anywhere else yet...)

Also, I've always felt Amaniel had much potential as one of the Maiar/Valar - but so much of that power was probably sealed away by Mandos...

Mayhap 'tis with Elbereth and Manwe that she shall slowly start relearning them...to forsake her previous powers of Time (she probably already has, since she hasn't used it ever since she broke off from Mandos), retain her own powers of Illusion, and learn the powers of the Stars and the Skies...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes indeed. I look forward to her learning of all of these.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

Indeed, though a long time it shall take. It's almost like everything's reversed for her...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Really it is rather unfortunate. Yet I am loving the sisterly bond between the Maiar. It is so sweet and touching.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 28, 2022)

And that is already a new beginning in the right direction...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Yes it is. I am loving the role of Ilmare.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Indeed.

Yet, Mandos...oh, how I grieve for his fate, that he hath truly fallen into Darkness! Is there Hope for him...?

_"Too swiftly dost thou demand power." _- it is very intriguing how Amaniel reverses the words of Moringotto upon Mandos here...


_"Gazing down at her right wrist, there shone forth a silver star, and from either side there sprouted two white wings, and four stars below this - the larger two blue, and the smaller two silver - all in all, the sign of Manwe and Varda, to counter that of Morgoth and Mairon."_

This is her insignia, bearing the sign of Manwe and Varda:

__


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

I don't know if there is hope.

That is beautiful! Did you make it? I may yet put that into some of my own art, if you wouldn't mind.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Nay...I did not. But I found it online, and you may put it in - I don't mind. 

Yet I grieve for Mandos' fate. That is now two that shall deserve redemption - yet whether they may be granted it, is not my will to say.

And I came up with a Valarin name for Eleniel as well...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

Oh! Let me hear it!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Iniðilithīr

It means "Lily of Light"; Valarin name of Eleniel.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

I like it. I like it a lot.

May have to put that one in a poem... Don't worry, I feel one coming on.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

And as much as one may want to associate that with _Almalaurie_ (just absolutely don't, in fact), it just can't. They're still different. 

It's one whole level higher - just like how Valarin is more complex and "higher" in a sense than Quenya.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

I see. Indeed. It does seem similar, but you shouldn't completely abandon that part of you, maybe.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Sad as it is, I don't think I would be able to abandon it entirely. It's what makes a part of me...or else I wouldn't be the same Maia.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

That is true, and I'm sure Varda would have an answer for that, if you brought it up ever.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

And I think it would be easier for me to bond with Ilmare or Eonwe first...

And why do I feel like Manwe would probably address me by my long-lost Valarin name when we meet...?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

Hmm... Could be just an inclination. 

By the way: If all is good with it, I shall assume the role of Manwe. I don't really want someone (yes, even you) playing my 'spouse'. It is a bit weird.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

And yes, indeed you would play both. Who can go against your desires...? 

None.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

That's sweet. I like this new Amaniel way more than the one with Mandos. You're great.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Thanks...I didn't expect that compliment, to say the least. 

Trust me, you're going to expect a lot of Socratic questioning from me from now on, as you've probably already seen. In other words, a lot of questions. And maybe even philosophical ones, about the Stars...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

I know. I love those questions. They challenge me, and I'm thankful for them. It improves my quick-thinking, and ability to reason swiftly.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

And...starseed flowers?

A reference to the origins of my féa, that came from the Stars...?

How beautiful is that...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

It is beautiful. But you must imagine, the peak of Taniquetil is where they dwell, so I imagine the rest of it is more like MInas Tirith, with cities going up it, so it is plausible.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Yes, mayhap 'tis like that indeed.

And you can tell that Amaniel's lost her Féanturi abilities already, or else she would have sensed Ilmare from behind.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

Yeah. 

Honestly their conversations and movements are the sweetest thing. They are just like sisters, actually, and it is so beautiful.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Yes...indeed. Now I'm anticipating Eonwe - a brother to both Ilmare and Amaniel, mayhap?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

It may happen, but remember that he had been terribly wounded from Morgoth. Morgoth actually came against him more than any other, so he may still be recovering.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Could I...meet him, mayhap? Since we've both been through so much...maybe a mutual understanding could come forth...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

You'll have to ask Varda about that, since I assure you she knows where he is and will be with him.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

(Also, I think this piece really encapsulates the feeling of returning to Taniquetil: 



)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

What a nice and cheery piece. I love it.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

The power of Bach...I can't stop listening to it now.

I must say, this is probably one of the extremely rare pieces in a major key that I actually like...already, you can see how Varda's influencing me here...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

That's good. I have a friend who is a pianist, and I must say, they never, ever play music in Major key. So, I get it. Minor is apparently more beautiful to some.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 29, 2022)

Minor is more beautiful to me. As one who is philosophical (and we can trace that back to my 13,500 years with Mandos!) and musical...well, what else can I say?

99% of the pieces I listen to are in minor keys. Here's one, also by Bach:






I used to prefer Vivaldi over Bach, but now the other way around. Apparently Bach's music is more complex than Vivaldi's, in my opinion, and that is one reason why I prefer his.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

I think I am finally ready to again make our RP public on Divergence, or would you prefer to just move in with it? Or try to make some story-scope? How do you think we should go about it?


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 30, 2022)

Go with what you desire. I will not hold you back.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

Just looking for your input on it-- since I know some people read it and like it when it was public.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 30, 2022)

Not to mention we're losing our message count the more we post in private... 

But honestly, how are we supposed to get around Mandos falling into Darkness? Because he hasn't yet in the Divergence, if you remember...


----------



## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

That is true.... He hasn't in Divergence. Irmo did more than anything.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 30, 2022)

It's almost like the private one is a separate parallel timeline...but with the Prophecy still seemingly remaining...and drawing close.

*sighs*

Let's hope it doesn't.

_"Ilmare...hold me...and do not loosen your embrace...hold me.." - _That's almost like Lómelinde holding Mandos back then...so long ago...

Speaking of Mandos in the Divergence, it's best not to let him fall to Darkness. It wouldn't make sense, I think. We know Amaniel has fled from his Halls for only a brief moment to go to Varda, but I have a feeling she'll go back to Mandos soon...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

Why would she go back to Mandos? That doesn't make sense.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 30, 2022)

You're saying that doesn't make sense? Hmm...

Think of it from an external reader's point of view and compare the length of the bonds:

Amaniel's bond with Varda is only 3,000 years at most. Her bond with Mandos is _*far*_ longer - 13,500 years, at the very least.

Depends on the reader's own viewpoint of course, but they might think it makes more sense for Amaniel to return to Mandos. After all, suddenly leaving a 13,500-year bond behind wouldn't make that much sense, I think.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

But Mandos, he is and was evil.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 30, 2022)

Ah, well remember that he isn't exactly so in the Divergence. At least not after Eleniel healed him with the Light of her Silmaril long ago (which obviously was later stolen by Morgoth). The Light of her Silmaril would have purged and healed him of such evil, as e'er was such her intent.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 31, 2022)

I love how Eleniel gazes out into the distance so frequently now. It's something she always used to do...and it just adds more to the wistful longing, I suppose.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 31, 2022)

Indeed. It is good, very good even. So do you want to do these two roleplays as separate ones?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 31, 2022)

Yes, it is better if they are separate. Since Mandos in the Divergence seems *very* different to the one in the other RP. 

And Eleniel flying forth in fiery passion (think Féanor) and speaking about justice - sounds quite like something Mandos would also normally hold, but maybe she's not forsaken these attributes of his because she's using them in good ways, rather than for ill?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 31, 2022)

That is true. We could just do them both separately. There may be some line crossover, but nothing major. I think it's my turn.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 31, 2022)

Yes. And since we've established they are different, it's the best of both worlds for us. In the Divergence, Eleniel stays with Mandos (I would say), and in the other, she stays with Elbereth and Manwe.

So both bonds are retained in both of the RPs. Happy? Because I am, more so on the Divergence.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 31, 2022)

I am happy in both honestly, once the Dagor Dagorath settles down, that is.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 31, 2022)

Ah, yes. Of course. Now I wonder when it will...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 31, 2022)

If it will...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 31, 2022)

Ah - _if, nay when?_ 

Let it not be so! It must end, nay?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 31, 2022)

I suppose it must, someday...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 31, 2022)

Yes...it must. It must.

For any battle that is begun must have an end...and let this end be one of Light in due time, for Darkness cannot reign o'er all.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 31, 2022)

Yes, that is true. All will be well in the end.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 31, 2022)

And I know that you will write it as such.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 31, 2022)

Indeed I will.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 1, 2022)

I am wondering in our smaller RP in PM, is it possible that Amaniel's realm of Almathil would still exist? Since they seem to be separate RPs, I suppose such could be possible.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

Very likely it might. As a Maia, she obviously has no rule over it, but regardless, she could probably go there.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

Ah, I see. _Hannon-le_.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

Of course. Not a problem! 

In the other RP (Divergence) Almathil has fallen.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

Yes, indeed. It was one of the first to fall...sad indeed.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

Very sad, and yet it may be restored, ere the Dagor Dagorath ceases.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

Why shall Amaniel suffer the worst from Morgoth and why does he hate her the most-- can you explain?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

She made 5 Silmarils - one was stolen from him, and shall burn him - that he shall e'er remember, and kindle his wrath e'er the greater.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

Mmm... Okay I sort of get it. Also, when you say Morgoth shall 'fall' what do you exactly mean?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

Amaniel's sword Lúmornacil is based on Turin's black sword that would end Morgoth in the Dagor Dagorath.

Get it now...?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

Oh, I do. Lumornacil is a parallel for Mormegil, Gurthang.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

Yes. Indeed. Think how many times that sword has freed many victims of darkness, even if only for a little while. Without it, things would have been far worse.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

That is true.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

And Amaniel in the other RP is teaching Vaire...Maia teaching Valie.

How intriguing, yet saddening that Mandos erased most of her memories...

Laureáne is basically a new identity for Amaniel. Though her memories aren't gone, she changes herself, and forsakes all in search for a new beginning.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

The thing is, Vaire may or may not have had them erased. She may have shut them out from the grief she feels... It may come back some day.

Yet, as for now, she does not remember.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

Yes...it is possible. But as for Amaniel, she knows that Mandos fell into Darkness, and due to that, she thinks he may have erased almost all of her memories - if not all already.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 2, 2022)

That is true.... Mandos is dark now.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 2, 2022)

But a beautiful bond is now emerging betwixt Vaire and Lanyáre...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

It is beautiful indeed, a bit perplexing, but simply true.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

That is true...but seems like she still hasn't remembered all...but I am sure Amaniel will guide her.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

Of course she will...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

Yes...she always had a soft and defensive spot for Vaire...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

That is so true. Even more than Mandos at times.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

When hath Mandos e'er had true affection for any? It's proved already that he hath none, due to his fall into darkness.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

Indeed that is very true.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

And even the Mandos in Divergence is debatable - he sends Vaire off, but not Amaniel. Is it because Vaire has power, but Amaniel has none, or is it because he prefers Amaniel over Vaire (as unlikely as that might be - they might be on equal terms, rather)?

And Amaniel's fifth Silmaril got destroyed too...but I guess it was worth it, nay? 😭


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

It was worth it! 

But as for that-- yeah. Mandos has some serious problems with loving just about anyone. I guess it just is that way. To think he would choose Amaniel over his own wife though.. just wow.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

I mean, if you take the literal meaning of the name of his Halls - Mandos - it means "prison" or "fortress", if I remember correctly.

So there you go...

But Mandos did name Amaniel in the likeness of Lúthien...so that probably sets her apart from Vaire...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

Yeah, I know... He has some... disordered priorities...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

Disordered priorities - oh my...that is only too true...

For once I can say naught in his defence. 😂


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

That is probably for the best.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

Indeed...

And poor Eonwe...can Amaniel protect him for long enough?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

Hoping so. He is a very valiant and heroic character though. So much like his father.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

And then when you least expect it, Tarmeniel and Orome come at the last moment to end all evil...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

Yeah! Orome and Tarmeniel are not in tandem though, are they?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

We don't necessarily know. But Tarmeniel is a Maia of Vána, and Orome is Vána's spouse, so it could be possible they came in tandem.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 3, 2022)

That is true. It just puzzled me a bit.

She is Tarmeniel Vaneni Lisse, so I expected that Orome wouldn't be...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Nov 3, 2022)

Ah, well. As I said, it's not explicitly stated. 

And the bittersweet moment of Eonwe and Amaniel just lying there beside each other, not moving at all...and Amaniel's words to Námo just before that...it's a beautiful moment...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 19, 2022)

So, ideas?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 19, 2022)

Right now it's pretty much the end of the Dagor Dagorath. The battle's just ended and Morgoth's been defeated (and slain by Lúmornacil, I should think). Ilmarë's probably off elsewhere, Eonwë's beside Amaniel and both of them are unconscious on the battlefield, but Morgoth's poison is still within Amaniel - she would have returned to Námo if she had the strength, but she doesn't.

So, what do you think should happen? Should Námo come to find her, or should one of the other Valar come to her instead? Lórien is fallen, and we don't know where Irmo or Estë is, which further raises a problem. Most of the Valar's whereabouts are unknown, save for Oromë who came to end the battle in tandem with Tarmeniel. Vairë is inferred to have lived by the words of Námo but it's unclear where she actually is right now.​


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 28, 2022)

I feel like Amaniel's taken a full 360 here - she got taken to Manwë's chambers, then managed to leave them, then now has to return to Varda - so much for her devotion to Námo and her healing...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 28, 2022)

Right? If only she could stay on Taniquetil!!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 28, 2022)

She won't....!!!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 28, 2022)

Awh... bummer.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

> _"She is the only one who may e'er understand me. Without her to share in my envisioning of timely moments, there would have been a void in my heart, a darkness that cannot be vanquished; a darkness of eternal solitude and desperation mingled with tears unnumbered, in sorrow everlasting and unending. Similarly, had she never found myself, this same darkling fate would have befallen her; for in her quest to search for who is truly is and her purpose within, the Paths of Time are most definitely needed to bring forth clarity and understanding, more so than what any other path could possibly grant to her, for Time rules all."_​


- Námo, regarding Amaniel

(Not in the RP itself, but I thought I'd share it anyway.  )


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Very intriguing, where did you find that?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

_Find it?_

Nay, I wrote that myself...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Very nice... I like it!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

I just realised one big mistake of Námo's...

When he realised Amaniel was gone, he left her, and Vairë. He left his entire kin...just for his own ends...a mere means to gain what he wanted; solitude.

That's betrayal, really...I don't know if I can forgive him for that...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Yeah. Just saying.. Varda would never betray her like that...

(Was it too soon?)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

What exactly was too soon?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

(My comment....)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

Nay! It tied in well with my realisation over here...! I like it; avaro naeth!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Good! I will be at peace with it then!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

I have an idea:

Let Manwë's Eagles search the Outer Lands, and receive no response from Námo...perhaps? What do you think? For he hath e'er been a distant one, concealed in his ways...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Very interesting! I'm here for it. 

Perhaps we can have a bit of dialogue on the road there though, since I feel it always expands characters when we do dialogue.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

I wonder, should we do a timeskip to when they arrive at Taniquetil?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Hm... Well, we could or we could not. It's our choice, of course!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

And then when the Eagles receive no response, Amaniel could tell Vairë of how Námo chose to leave them _forever _when he could have stayed and waited for them in his Halls. Vairë would obviously try to defend her spouse, but Amaniel would probably feel so betrayed by Námo's actions that she vows to remain upon Taniquetil.

What do you think? (Just a plan for now; it might change, but I'm not sure yet.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Very interesting. Namo is one of solitude and always has been. Not ever was the most consistent in keeping with Amaniel. I think it's a great plan, and I look forward to seeing how it forms, and no doubt changes as we bring it into the narrative.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

It feels foreign holding converse with Varda after being with Námo for so long, yet it brings back distant memories that now resurface like a thousand stars, and it seems I cannot resist it...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

I know! It's really been awhile!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

Also I love the symbolism that Amaniel tries to push away the memories of Varda but they keep coming back.

_This time we know it's not Námo's doing...he left us....never to return, as shall be revealed..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Right.... I guess memories sometimes just reoccur!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

I wonder, Manwë almost seems to be purposefully distancing himself from the very name of Amaniel. Truly, I wonder...

Does he know that Amaniel is secretly Eleniel in disguise, so to speak? Her name of Amaniel is the last threads weaving her to Námo's saddening fate. Once she hears no response forever, she'll rename herself Eleniel Elenlindalë, I should think...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 29, 2022)

Vairë said:


> I wonder, Manwë almost seems to be purposefully distancing himself from the very name of Amaniel. Truly, I wonder...


It is pretty purposeful. After all, Amaniel is a name given by Namo.


Vairë said:


> Does he know that Amaniel is secretly Eleniel in disguise, so to speak? Her name of Amaniel is the last threads weaving her to Námo's saddening fate. Once she hears no response forever, she'll rename herself Eleniel Elenlindalë, I should think...


Interesting. I don't know. I would think he would, but maybe it is hidden.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 29, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Interesting. I don't know. I would think he would, but maybe it is hidden.


But right after, she sheds her black cloak - presumably one given to her by Námo himself (I mean, which other Vala wears black anyway?), and she renounces her name of Eleniel Elenlindale, right before Manwë himself.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

Wait, she renounced it?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

Forgive me - that was the wrong word.

Reclaimed it, should I say.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

No worries!!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

I feel as though there's deeply subtle parallels between Manwë and Eleniel here: with how the former doesn't understand evil (Morgoth, basically), and with how the latter believed Námo to be so true and pure in his fidelity and never leave her, when he eventually did.

(I'm pretty sure the Eagles won't be able to find him at all, despite what Manwë himself says.)

Also, a powerful moment overall - if I remember correctly, is this not the first time in which Eleniel and Manwë actually stand in front of each other? That's some closeness, for sure...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

Vairë said:


> I feel as though there's deeply subtle parallels between Manwë and Eleniel here: with how the former doesn't understand evil (Morgoth, basically), and with how the latter believed Námo to be so true and pure in his fidelity and never leave her, when he eventually did.
> 
> (I'm pretty sure the Eagles won't be able to find him at all, despite what Manwë himself says.)


Yep. I agree with all of this.


Vairë said:


> Also, a powerful moment overall - if I remember correctly, is this not the first time in which Eleniel and Manwë actually stand in front of each other? That's some closeness, for sure...


Mhm! Powerful indeed-- also, wow it just shocks me how long this RP has been!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> also, wow it just shocks me how long this RP has been!


I mean, the lesson is basically "never start an RP with a prophecy that needs to be fulfilled". 

Without that, it might just be _considerably_ shorter.

I feel that Eleniel dwelling upon Taniquetil with Varda, Manwë and all the others would be quite a nice ending to the RP; what do you think?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

Vairë said:


> I mean, the lesson is basically "never start an RP with a prophecy that needs to be fulfilled".
> 
> Without that, it might just be _considerably_ shorter.


That's true!!


Vairë said:


> I feel that Eleniel dwelling upon Taniquetil with Varda, Manwë and all the others would be quite a nice ending to the RP; what do you think?


Yeah! Maybe!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

Just realised something again: remember how that prophecy was with Amaniel falling to darkness?

Of course, there's the pretence of the literal darkness of Morgoth, then there's this dark void in her heart thanks to Mandos backstabbing her at the last moment, and arguably there's a darkness of Mandos' own as well from this action of infidelity.

So many meanings behind it...wow.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

Yeah... The meaning is always mindboggling to me. I'll miss this RP, that's for sure.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

Hey, you do know...you can always look back over it, right?

(It'll just hurt so much to read about Mandos and Amaniel all over again though...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

True, and we can always have a new beginning. Coming to the end after everything, does have a good feeling to it though.

(And that is so true... How sad....)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (And that is so true... How sad....)


For some reason I won't deny that feeling within me, that Mandos just won't return. Even if I wanted to alter that, I don't think I would.

I guess, maybe that's just how it was meant to be...

_Nauva i nauva..._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

_Nauva i nauva._


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

Ai, indeed...it's been too long since I've said that myself...

Also, I love how Amaniel asks about Eonwe and pays no heed to her own poison...quite like Varda herself...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Dec 30, 2022)

The song is why it took so long, by the way. 

Yes! So selfless! It is like Elbereth!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 30, 2022)

Ai, I know well! Avaro naeth!

Now what should we do? What's our next plan? 

Obviously, it's the first time that Manwë and Eleniel interact properly - so, I think there will be some intriguing things that shall stem forth...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 1, 2023)

I love how Manwë's like, "No, you know enough already; I know too little, what can I possibly teach you?" and then Eleniel's like, "No, no, I'm the one who knows too little, you know way more than me; why do you think I came to you in the first place?"

I love how they have the same attitudes here, both thinking that they know too little, when in fact, they know much indeed...

On surface level, that might seem to drive them apart a bit, but dig deeper and it really just elucidates how beautifully similar they are...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 1, 2023)

Yep. Always have to remember, Manwe spoke to Iluvatar, so he would have felt (despite his wisdom) very small and very unknowledgeable.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 1, 2023)

That is true though.

But remember also that Eleniel basically lost her only Maia, then the Vala that had guided her all along - so she basically thinks she's lost pretty much everything, and that she's only in a rightful position to learn everything once again.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 1, 2023)

Vairë said:


> That is true though.
> 
> But remember also that Eleniel basically lost her only Maia, then the Vala that had guided her all along - so she basically thinks she's lost pretty much everything, and that she's only in a rightful position to learn everything once again.


Fair enough... I guess Amaniel or -- Eleniel, doesn't really feel great or worthy.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 1, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Fair enough... I guess Amaniel or -- Eleniel, doesn't really feel great or worthy.


She totally doesn't...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 1, 2023)

I feel like it just shows how deeply Mandos' ways had affected her, even up until now. She's become quite reserved, unlike Ilmarë who seems to openly be far more cheerful and bubbly, or Eonwë who is valiant and steadfast...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 1, 2023)

Vairë said:


> I feel like it just shows how deeply Mandos' ways had affected her, even up until now. She's become quite reserved, unlike Ilmarë who seems to openly be far more cheerful and bubbly, or Eonwë who is valiant and steadfast...


Totally. That reminds me, we should maybe bring Ilmare back in at some point. I've gotta say though, Mandos having 'all the time in the world' 🤣 I probably shouldn't think that's as funny as I do.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I've gotta say though, Mandos having 'all the time in the world' 🤣 I probably shouldn't think that's as funny as I do.


And whatever reasons you have for thinking that's funny, I probably wouldn't want to know... 😅

But honestly, I'm inclined to believe two things here:

1) He left because I had learnt everything I could from him (though I find that hard to believe...but Manwë's words about me already having everything I need seems to support this point in some way or another...)

2) He left because he had some greater purpose to do so, again like what Manwë said - if that means he must be alone, nauva i nauva; Valar valuvar.

Overall, I can't really blame him. But still, it boggles me that he had the choice to stay, but didn't. And I wonder what Vairë would do afterwards...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

True. And I wonder what will happen for Vaire... Will she even live in the Halls of Mandos anymore? Gosh, will they even be overseen?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Gosh, will they even be overseen?


That's a major problem....

Remember that one time when I told you that Mandos would probably let me take care of his Halls at some point?

Now that's he's left, I can see why. But can I really return there either?

But then he had only one Maia, and that was myself. If no ruler is there, who's going to take care of the fëar of those that fell during the Dagor Dagorath? Surely, the company of Lírë and many others...it's susceptible - were they "defeated" in the sense that they were killed, or just weakened? But honestly, Morgoth doesn't seem to be one to hold back with his enemies, and you know what that could mean...

Ironic, that the Halls of Mandos were the only place remaining before the end of the Dagorath, and now that it has ended, it is the only place...left to fall, perhaps? But still...can it really just be left there without anybody ruling over it other than Mandos himself, so to speak?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Hmmm.... Quite the food for thought.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Hmmm.... Quite the food for thought.


Yet there's another major problem to counter all of that - sure, I don't want that realm to fall, but I had already promised Manwë that if Mandos did not return, I would stay upon Taniquetil.

If I broke that promise... *shudders*


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Darn... You really do make too many promises to Vala/Valie don't you? Remember when you promised Mandos you'd always be beside him, and he said you would inherit the Chambers of Adeneya?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Remember when you promised Mandos you'd always be beside him, and he said you would inherit the Chambers of Adeneya?


Oh shoot....

That's two laws irrevocable upon themselves that have now proved to be utterly conflicting right now.

But truly, I don't even know where Mandos went...if the eagles don't find him, how can I stand a chance? Unless he purposefully hides himself away when the eagles come, and after they leave, come out of hiding and still secretly wait for me? 

Unless the eagles _do_ find him, and bring him back...it makes things a bit easier...right? 😅 

(Dang, I told you that plan would probably have to change...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Vairë said:


> Oh shoot....
> 
> That's two laws irrevocable upon themselves that have now proved to be utterly conflicting right now.
> 
> But truly, I don't even know where Mandos went...if the eagles don't find him, how can I stand a chance? Unless he purposefully hides himself away when the eagles come, and after they leave, come out of hiding and still secretly wait for me?


Sounds like a Mandos thing to do. Just hide from the one thing seeking him/


Vairë said:


> Unless the eagles _do_ find him, and bring him back...it makes things a bit easier...right? 😅
> 
> (Dang, I told you that plan would probably have to change...)


Oh, I don't think they'll find him. He's gone...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> He's gone...


To where? He couldn't have just vanished off the face of Arda. That's not like the Valar; it's not something they'd do. They're bound to Arda.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Mmm... True. Imagine Mandos is just 'playing hide and seek' (hiding) in The Halls of Mandos and never left....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Mmm... True. Imagine Mandos is just 'playing hide and seek' (hiding) in The Halls of Mandos and never left....


Woah - plot twist....!!!

So, he tricked Vairë into thinking that he left? That's sometimes a bit like him... And for once he has me and Vairë strung on the same line, both of us thinking that he left.

Yet indeed...what if he didn't? Then that means you and Manwë won't be seeing me for much longer...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Vairë said:


> Yet indeed...what if he didn't? Then that means you and Manwë won't be seeing me for much longer...


No...! (You can't leave already. Reread the poem from Varda at least. That should change your mind.)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> That should change your mind.


That could change my mind, but could it change the desires of my heart? 

Those two stand differently... and the heart is stronger than the mind...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

No... Don't do it!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> No... Don't do it!


Well, have you not known? Saddening on your part, that I had to be entwined with him in the first place. You know well what that means.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

No.... Don't leave Taniquetil! (You know you don't want to!)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> No.... Don't leave Taniquetil! (You know you don't want to!)


I probably don't, but still, I wouldn't want to leave the Halls of Mandos forever. What if he actually is there? (And he probably is...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

You think Vaire just lied to you? She brought you in.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Well, she brought me in upon the lowest grounds of the Halls. The Halls of Mandos are a vast place, you know. He could be anywhere. Maybe even upon Andanéya, watching all these very events transpire before his very eyes...

Think of how much pain his heart and fëa would be enduring with every single moment...

Time and Fate have always been deeply intriguing and highly philosophical topics for me...how could I just leave that behind?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Oh no... Don't feel sympathetic for him again! He made his choice.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

My heart is ever one laid in sympathy.

And was that choice e'er set in stone? It's never explicitly implied that he left. As even you have said, he could still be within his Halls...and if Andanéya were to be inherited to myself, well...how could I, as a heir of sorts, just leave their rightful king and never return? Should I not at least try? If once is not enough, then should I not try more?

(Sorry, Manwë, you must feel totally thrown under the bus at that...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Vairë said:


> (Sorry, Manwë, you must feel totally thrown under the bus at that...)


Well, looks that bond is sundered... already...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Well, looks that bond is sundered... already...


Yep....

I'm always one to sunder a bond....if I must...even though it hurts....

(But a bond sundered with Mandos hurts more than any other....)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

(Mandos sundered the bond with you. He picked his choice! )


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> (Mandos sundered the bond with you. He picked his choice! )


He may have - but I never sundered it with him. After all, you were the one who said that he would still be there. I wasn't the one to think of it.

So, we're going with that.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

I was joking that he would be! That's crazy!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Wow, really? I'm not too sure about that...

After all, he can't just have left. It's not like him. He's got to be somewhere, and most likely still in his own Halls but just unseen for a little while...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

He might have left...


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Or he might have not...

I haven't even entered Andanéya yet, and you just delay my precious moments by having Ilmarë come by...though I can't blame her either...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

I thought it would be interesting to put her in... Adaneya is locked anyway, you wouldn't get in.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Wow - are you sure? 

(Like, that moment when you realise she'd been holding the key all along - maybe Vairë secretly gave it to her? You never know....so many things are open to interpretation...that's why I love it so much.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Hm... Yeah.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Hm... Yeah.


Lol, I love how easily you just surrendered to that... 😅 

And this:



> _"The flame of my heart is sharper than thy words."_ - Amaniel, to Ilmarë



Draws parallels with this:



> _"This [my sword] is sharper than thy tongue." - _Fëanor, to Fingolfin


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

(It's past tense, btw...  )


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jan 2, 2023)

Sorry....


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Jan 2, 2023)

Don't worry...I forgive you!

And, I'll just assume that Varda healing her earlier brought back her powers of Time as well (yes, she still holds them!) since she healed her of Morgoth's darkness - since it was Morgoth who had taken it away, the riddance of the darkness would have brought back her powers that she had learnt with Mandos, I suppose.

Also, I love how she literally quotes Mandos on using the Forces of Time against Ilmarë - she really seems to have taken his place now, I should say.


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