# Saruman or Gandalf the White



## Legolas254 (Dec 23, 2002)

Who do you think would win a duel? Gandalf the White or Saruman?? I personally think Gandalf would win. Anybody else??


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## Beorn (Dec 23, 2002)

It depends entirely on when? After Gandalf was resurrected? Then Gandalf would win? Before? Probably Saruman


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## Legolas254 (Dec 23, 2002)

I meant after he was resurrected. Sorry for any trouble.


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## Lantarion (Dec 23, 2002)

Lol Beorn, I think it's implied that as Gandalf is the White it might be after his resurrection. 

Gandalf obviously; well, I say obviously because of what Gandalf himself says, with some authority: something like "No weapon can indeed harm me." And his willpower is shown when he cracks Saruman's staff. 
*crack*


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## Éomond (Dec 23, 2002)

Gandalf definitly. In the book (TTT) Gandalf is kickin' Saruman's butt, and that was only with words


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## Nefmariel (Dec 23, 2002)

Gandalf the White definatley


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## Finduilas (Dec 23, 2002)

Gandalf because of him itsself and because good always beats evil.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 23, 2002)

Gandalf.Saruman has lost most of his powers,because of evil in his heart and mind.


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 23, 2002)

Gandalf of course!
He defeats Sauraman, and that is that! Why do you ask questions you already know?
But I, King of the Nine, Lord of Morgul, Ruler of the powerful Nazgul, Nay, not even five wizards at once could slay me! Psh... but a foolish hobbit and a handmaiden can! Curse Eowyn and her halfling friend!


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## Aglarthalion (Dec 23, 2002)

Gandalf (as The White) would all to easily defeat Sauruman, as is evidenced when he does. You don't really need to ask "Who *would* win?", when you can clearly read who *did*.


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## Maeglin (Dec 23, 2002)

Yes Gandalf the White would definitely win against Saruman after Saruman had turned evil, but here's a better question perhaps: Would Gandalf the White be able to beat Saruman the White before Saruman had even begun to turn to evil? like if Gandalf was the White when Saruman first came to Middle-Earth.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Glorfindel1187 _
> * Would Gandalf the White be able to beat Saruman the White before Saruman had even begun to turn to evil? like if Gandalf was the White when Saruman first came to Middle-Earth. *


 ]
Very intersting question but who knows the answer?I think Gandalf would win.He didn't show his power at the beginning.Just remember that he sad he is not good enough to go in ME when the Istari were sent to ME.He was a humble Maia


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## falcolite (Dec 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Glorfindel1187 _
> *Yes Gandalf the White would definitely win against Saruman after Saruman had turned evil, but here's a better question perhaps: Would Gandalf the White be able to beat Saruman the White before Saruman had even begun to turn to evil? like if Gandalf was the White when Saruman first came to Middle-Earth. *



On this one, I would have to vote a draw. In regards to the first question, Gandalf, without a second thought.


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## Éomond (Dec 24, 2002)

I still think it would be Gandalf. I have no fact or clue's but I still think no Istari could beat Gandalf the White.


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## Wolfshead (Dec 24, 2002)

It'd be Gandalf because Saruman had strayed from good. When you are evil you don't have access to the same, broad range of power. At least that's how I think it goes in these things...


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## Isenho (Dec 24, 2002)

dang it! i chose Saruman because.......because....


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## The lidless Eye (Dec 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Éomond _
> *Gandalf definitly. In the book (TTT) Gandalf is kickin' Saruman's butt, and that was only with words *



Of course Gandalf kicked his butt with only words. Magic is only words. 
And I would say that, they would both be defeated, if Saruman was still pure in heart... No-one can know for sure...


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## gandalfthegreat (Dec 26, 2002)

*Gandalf Vs. Sauron*

Ok this is an easy one...GANDALF...no contest, I don't believe Gandalf the White can be defeated, especially not by Sauron.
Apparently you can see I am a bit partial to Gandalf, So I guess my opinion really can't be counted on....O bother...


-Gandalf-


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## Turin (Dec 27, 2002)

Of course Gandalf would win.He has glamdring too.


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## Viewman (Dec 27, 2002)

Agree  No one can defeat Gandalf


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## Maeglin (Dec 27, 2002)

Okay you 3, the topic is not Gandalf vs. Sauron, its Gandalf vs. Saruman, and by the way, Gandalf can't beat Sauron, he said so himself.


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## Thorondor_ (May 16, 2005)

Yes, he said to Legolas: "you won't find anyone more powerful than me, unless you go to Sauron".


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## spirit (May 16, 2005)

Seeing as this is Tolkien's World, good will prevail. So Saruman would win!  Kidding, my old friend Gandalf would win... Oh back in the say, when I was human, I use to know that old chap. We went that little adventure *continues the story while everyone is *ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*  *


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## Thorondor_ (May 16, 2005)

Good willl prevail? Take a look at Silmarillion... in best case its a draw lol


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## spirit (May 16, 2005)

One of Tolkien's basic ideas is "Good vs. Evil".

...And eventually, good did overcome evil. The Ring was destroyed, Sauron, destroyed... 

Besides, it's not a perfect world. Plenty of sacrificed needed to be made for the "Greater Good".


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## Thorondor_ (May 16, 2005)

Now, you wouldn.t say that evil was eliminated for good in LotR.., or anywhere else. Morgoth is still waiting for another shot at Arda, and the fact that the One Ring was destroyed, I would rather interprete that its power returned to the earth, and that power can be summoned again. And knowing that no Istari was allowed to use that power... I bet a second Sauron would


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## ingolmo (May 18, 2005)

It depends. Take Gandalf the White and Saruman the White at the height of his power, Saruman would win; after all Saruman was the leader of the Istari. But then if you compare Gandalf the White and Saruman of Many Colors, Gandalf would win. It all depends...


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## Thorondor_ (May 18, 2005)

I think the demise of Saruman actually started before he became of Many Colors, that is, when he became corrupt. Besides, his main power was his voice, (that's stated several times); do you think he could sweet talk a balrog?


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## Ingwë (May 18, 2005)

Gandalf the White broke Saruman's staff in Isegarn after the battle at Helpm's deep. Gandalf is a powerful Maia and don't forget: Galadriel wanted Olirin to be the leader of the White Council! And I also think that Gandalf the White is more powerful than Gandalf the Grey.


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## Thorondor_ (May 18, 2005)

Yes, he stated that he was second only to Sauron.


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## ingolmo (May 19, 2005)

Then how did Sauron come to become more powerful than Gandalf, after all, both are Maiar.


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## Thorondor_ (May 19, 2005)

Well, it is stated that the Istari lose alot of their power and knowledge when coming to M-E. And for Sauron, he actually kept on gathering power and at one time, he became to inherit all of Melkor's work. And I think that the sacrifices to Melkor do participate in the increase of the power of the shadow. So there are multiple causes for Sauron having greater power than Gandalf.


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## Arthur_Vandelay (May 19, 2005)

Maeglin said:


> Okay you 3, the topic is not Gandalf vs. Sauron, its Gandalf vs. Saruman, and by the way, Gandalf can't beat Sauron, he said so himself.



While the topic may not be Gandalf vs. Sauron, this is pretty much how it panned out in the book. 

As a fellow Wizard, Gandalf mourned the loss of Saruman "to the dark side," as it were--a major casualty in the war against Sauron. Gandalf the White may be able to beat Saruman on any given day, and in the book Saruman certainly _lost_ to Gandalf--but in a way, Gandalf lost, too.


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## Ingwë (May 19, 2005)

Arthur_Vandelay said:


> ...but in a way, Gandalf lost, too.


 
Yes, but *it was Gandalf the Grey who lost*, not Gandalf the White.


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