# Battle between Fëanor and Luthy!



## Ithrynluin (Sep 14, 2002)

OK it would seem that Fëanor and Luthien kindled most people's hearts in the "Who's the greatest elf" discussion.Luthy was excluded from that poll,so let's see what this forum _really_ thinks!

GO LUTHIEN!


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 14, 2002)

I think you know what my opinion is.Feanor is the greatest elf ever,and just wait for Meadhros,he will prove this statement   
Go Feanor Go Feanor


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 14, 2002)

OK,voting over! Looks like Luthien got a 100%! How nice!

(Just kiddin' of course)



> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *I think you know what my opinion is.Feanor is the greatest elf ever,and just wait for Meadhros,he will prove this statement
> Go Feanor Go Feanor *



Ah,you beat me to that post by a minute! 

Looking forward to a good fight!


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *
> 
> Ah,you beat me to that post by a minute!
> ...


Of course,what else do you expect?


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## Sivien (Sep 15, 2002)

I of course voted for Luthien, even though I'm a great fan of Feanor (as Gil-Galad might know ). She did by far the greatest deeds, and managed that without much, if any, killing. She also was a female (duh!!) and loved her man so much, she was willing to risk her life, gave up her immortality and did not live happily ever after in Valinor like Mandos had offered her. 
Just for equal rights let's say this, Feanor is the greatest he-elf and Luthien is the greatest she-elf


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## Ceorl (Sep 15, 2002)

I voted for Luthien, I mean she is half Maiar for goodness sake. However I dont neccessarily agree that she performed greater deeds than Feanor as his actions shaped the next three ages.


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## Ponte (Sep 15, 2002)

Go Feanor.


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## Melian Le Fay (Sep 16, 2002)

Poor Feanor... He let his emotions overwhelm him once, and he made that stupid oath and he was ruined and his children as well... but if there weren't for his strength and emotions he would never make the jewels... but also he would never have such a destiny... It seems so ironic - Feanor had the power, but it was too strong for him. 
But, Luthien... she and Beren did take a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown, and it later shone like a star Gil-Estel and gave Men and Elves in ME hope... And from her came the strein of Elven and divine blood in Men; and if all those kings weren't her descendants, what would ME be like?
but I liked Luthien better, guess I'm romantic...


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## LúthienTinúviel (Sep 16, 2002)

Tough one for me...man...soo tough...umm...what who to choose? Why Lúthien, of course. 

Ok, now in all seriousness, this is a complicated question. As far as the "who is the greatest elf ever?" debate, I honestly do not see how anyone could choose anyone other than Fëanor. My head reels to think of how many hypothetical and totally out of context discussions go on. Tolkien's world is his alone, and in that respect it is sacred. It is open to interpretation in that Tolkien was vague about certain aspects such as Balrog's wings, etc., and thus it is a wonderful mental excercise to use the information that is available to venture conjectures as to what the case was in Tolkien's mind...but other than that, and I say it's blasphemy. Tolkien clearly states that Fëanor was the greatest. A heartfelt expression of sympathy to those (including myself!) who really can't stand Fëaor, but the Big Man himself said it. *shrugs*

As for who would win a battle between Fëanor and Lúthien...that is very different. Although Fëanor was the "greatest elf," Lúthien was no mere elf. Her Maia blood canot be ignored or denied. Why would Lúthien have won? She had humility and Fëanor did not. Hubris was Fëanor's downfall in his battle with Morgoth and it would prove so if he fought Lúthien. In Tolkien's mythos, historically, the pure and the humble triumph. Lúthien was both of these things, while Fëanor clearly was not. In addition, she wielded the power of the Ainur, or at least some of it. Clearly the odds are stacked in her favour, and rightly so, I think Tolkien would say.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 16, 2002)

It says somewhere (I don't recall where exactly) that Fëanor was *made* greatest in body,mind,...etc. Born the greatest is not the same as remaining great throughout one's life.Fëanor was born the greatest - sure I'll admit that much,but his life,his gift,his burning spirit, was spent in hatred and foolishness.

From UT: (not an exact quote)
Fëanor was the greatest of the Noldor,except Galadriel *maybe*,though she was wiser than he,and her wisdom increased with the long years. 

This implies that Fëanor was probably the greatest,but not the greatest elf,but the greatest of the Noldor!And even this is doubtful because of the "maybe" (I personally think that Galadriel was better than Fëanor, but let's not get into that).

Oh and one more thing,Luthien.This poll is not about Luthien and Fëanor actually engaging in combat,rather a comparison of their deeds and characters!


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## Maedhros (Sep 17, 2002)

Unfortunately, me being a Fëanor fan, I would have to say that Lúthien is the greatest of the Eldar, as quoted by JRRT himself in the Shibboleth of Fëanor in the Peoples of ME.


> Who together with the greatest of all the Eldar, Lúthien Tinúviel, daughter of Elu Thingol, are the chief matter of the legends and histories of the Elves.


Having said that, I believe that Fëanor was a great elf who did great deeds. One has to look in depth to the characters motives and reasoning that stand before his actions.
I think it's very sad that there are people who root for bad things to happen to certain individuals, especially characters involved in books such as the Sil. To root for the death of somenone, even a character like Fëanor is kind of plain weird and sad to me.


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## LúthienTinúviel (Sep 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> 
> Oh and one more thing,Luthien.This poll is not about Luthien and Fëanor actually engaging in combat,rather a comparison of their deeds and characters!



He he he. Whoops! Well, I still hold the same general opinion.  .. just modified slightly to fit the topic.


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## Curufinwe (Sep 18, 2002)

I dotn understand why everyone who likes an elf apart from Feanor has to go and make a poll of who is better. Feanor was and always will be the greatest elf to ever have his name in history.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Curufinwe _
> *I dotn understand why everyone who likes an elf apart from Feanor has to go and make a poll of who is better. Feanor was and always will be the greatest elf to ever have his name in history. *



Your opinion there.
That's exactly why such polls are made,to see if people actually AGREE with what was written by Tolkien. (and judging by the poll,I'd say "not so much" )

Cheers


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## LúthienTinúviel (Sep 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *
> 
> Your opinion there.
> ...



Hmmm...I don't think that one must disagree with Tolkien in order to think that Lúthien is more powerful than Fëanor. If your reasoning is that, yes, Fëanor had more influence and more potential, but because of his excessive pride he was weakened to a state below that of Lúthien, then technically you're still giving Fëanor his due credit from Tolkien while also siding with Lúthien. I don't think it's a matter of either you agree with Tolkien or not, unless I'm missing some vital information. I don't believe in disagreeing with Tolkien's laws...after all, he made the world and therefore he made the laws, and IMHO, he should be treated as the SuperEru of ME, and not be gainsaid. 

What I want to know is why Fëanor fans get in the face of other elf fans more than anyone else.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 19, 2002)

LT,I should have said that in a different way.I didn't actually mean that people should DISAGREE with Tolkien,I was just bothered by the fact that some people take certain parts of his books as "sacred" (for lack of a better word) but at the same they disregard other important parts that quite likely gainsay their "sacred" parts. (yes this is especially directed to all the Fëanor discussions)


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## LúthienTinúviel (Sep 19, 2002)

Ah, well then we agree.  I think debates about the finer points of Tolkienian history are stimulating and very intructive, but only if Toliien's imagination is respected. I don't have the time of day for someone who wants to argue that, for example, "Galadriel is hotter than Lúthien." It's like - hey - did ya read the book?


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## Confusticated (Sep 19, 2002)

I'm just wondering why it isn't "Battle between Luthien and Feany"


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## LúthienTinúviel (Sep 19, 2002)

Good point. I mean, I personally find Fëanor very cuddly and fuzzy, and I think he fits that nickname.  

"Come home to mamma, my cute wittle cuddly Fëany...awww..there's a good boy..."


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## ApplCobbler (Sep 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by LúthienTinúviel _
> *
> 
> 
> What I want to know is why Fëanor fans get in the face of other elf fans more than anyone else.  *



Because Feanor Fans are fiery at heart, just as Feanor, and have too much pride to let his name be downtrodden.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by LúthienTinúviel _
> Ah, well then we agree.  I think debates about the finer points of Tolkienian history are stimulating and very intructive, but only if Toliien's imagination is respected. I don't have the time of day for someone who wants to argue that, for example, *"Galadriel is hotter than Lúthien." It's like - hey - did ya read the book?*



*Is that one of "the finer points" you were talking about?* 
*hehe*


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Confusticated _
> *I'm just wondering why it isn't "Battle between Luthien and Feany" *



Because,I like Luthien better than Fëanor hence the pet-name for her.
DUH!


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## LúthienTinúviel (Sep 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *
> 
> Is that one of "the finer points" you were talking about?
> *hehe* *



Oh absolutely. You don't get more depth or complexity, not to mention breathtaking articulation, than that.


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## Maedhros (Sep 19, 2002)

> I don't think that one must disagree with Tolkien in order to think that Lúthien is more powerful than Fëanor.


Tolkien himself says that Lúthien is the greatest of the Eldar, not the more powerful. Where did you get that?
From Morgoth's Ring: OF THE SEVERANCE OF MARRIAGE


> 'Hearken now, O Valar! To me foretelling is granted no less than doom, and I will proclaim now to you things both near and far. Behold! Indis the fair shall be made glad and fruitful, who might else have been solitary. For not in death only hath the Shadow entered into Aman with the coming of the Children destined to suffer; there are other sorrows, even if they be less. Long she hath loved Finwë, in patience and without bitterness. Aulë nameth Fëanor the greatest of the Eldar, *and in potency that is true*.


This is Námo speaking.
Don't confuse the two things.
From the Silmarillion: Of the Sun and the Moon and the Darkening of Valinor


> *For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar*, and a bright flame was in him. The works of wonder for the glory of Arda that he might otherwise have wrought only Manwë might in some measure conceive.


Fëanor was not the greatest of the Eldar, IMHO, because he fell for the lies of Morgoth and because of the abscence of Míriel.


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Curufinwe _
> *I dotn understand why everyone who likes an elf apart from Feanor has to go and make a poll of who is better. Feanor was and always will be the greatest elf to ever have his name in history. *


The right thoughts on the right placce!


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