# The Life of the Silmarils



## Úlairi (Feb 20, 2009)

> _The Silmarillion: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor_
> 
> *Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda. Yet that crystal was to the Silmarils but as is the body to the Children of Ilúvatar: the house of its inner fire, that is within it and yet in all parts of it, and is its life. And the inner fire of the Silmarils Fëanor made of the blended light of the Trees of Valinor, which lives in them yet, though the Trees have long withered and shine no more. Therefore even in the darkness of the deepest treasury the Silmarils of their own radiance shone like the stars of Varda; and yet, as they were indeed living things, they rejoiced in light and received it and gave it back in hues more marvellous than before.*


 
Were the Silmarils truly living beings existing within Arda? How came Fëanor by the Power to "_create_" life when Aulë failed in his "_creation_" of the Dwarves? Was the mastery of Fëanor in his craft enough to surpass that of the Valar in the creation of beings? Are the Silmarils therefore _olvar_? Are they congnizant??? Is the "_inner fire_" a reference to the_ Flame Imperishabl_e? 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Alcuin (Feb 20, 2009)

The light was alive. The housing of the light – the crystal – was like the _hröa_ of the Incarnates. The _fëa_ was the light itself, the blended light of the Two Trees, which Tolkien says was alive. Whether it had high sentience, like a Noldo, or very low sentience, like a tree (a living thing of which we would normally say _no_ sentience yet still reacts to its environment), we are not told: but the light itself was alive.

Fëanor did not create the life in the Silmarils and more than he could have created the life in a bird he found for which he built a fancy cage. The bird was alive on its own before the cage, and the light was alive before Fëanor conceived the _silima_ of which the crystals were constructed. 


_The Silmarillion_, “Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor”, from which you have quoted, *Úlairi*, begins with the statement, 


> Fëanor, being come to his full might, was filled with a new thought, or it may be that some shadow of foreknowledge came to him of the doom that drew near; and he pondered how the light of the Trees, the glory of the Blessed Realm, might be preserved imperishable.


In light of this discussion (_pun, pun_), we can see from this opening that if we presume the light itself of the Two Trees alive, then Fëanor recognized the light as alive. Morgoth was already wandering free around Valinor, causing trouble in subtle ways, like sewing distrust and discord and dissention between Fëanor and his brothers. Elves and Men do have premonitions and foresight from time to time, and Fëanor, “come to his full might” and not yet fallen, might well have been given foresight to see that he should house “the light of the Trees” in some structure that would be “imperishable.” 

The Flame Imperishable is not the Light of the Silmarils or of the Two Trees. (The Light of the Silmarils and of the Two Trees is one and the same, I think: it seems to me that the life of the Trees was not the Trees themselves, but the Light in them: so that by breaking the Silmarils, Yavanna could have restored Life (Light) to the Trees.) 

The Flame Imperishable is the gift of Life and of individuality, among other things. _Before_ the Ainulindalë was sung, Ilúvatar told the Ainur, 


> I have kindled you with the Flame Imperishable, ... each with his own thoughts and devices... But I will sit and hearken, and be glad that through you great beauty has been wakened into song


And after the Ainulindalë, Ilúvatar tells them, 


> “I know the desire of your minds that what ye have seen should verily be, not only in your thought, but even as ye yourselves are, and yet other. Therefore I say: _Eä!_ Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be; and those of you that will may go down into it.” And suddenly the Ainur saw afar off a light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame; and they knew that this was no vision only, but that Ilúvatar had made a new thing: Eä, the World that Is.


I think that when Gandalf tells the Balrog on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm that he is “a Servant of the Secret Fire” that he is declaring that he has remained true to Ilúvatar by declaring his allegiance to the Flame Imperishable that Ilúvatar had set in the Ainur, in Eä, and in the Incarnates.

So my answers to your questions are: 

Are the Silmarils living beings? No, but the Light in them is alive. The Silmarils are their “house”, a constructed _hröa_ in which the Light can remain indefinitely.
Did Fëanor create life? No, he created a “house” for a Living creature that had no “house”.
The Valar did not create Incarnates, not even Aulë: the Dwarves were given their life and sentience independent of Aulë by Eru when Aulë repented of his impatience and impertinence. Fëanor did not have the same kind of skill as Aulë: it was less in many ways, but seemingly greater in some.
The Silmarils are neither _olvar_ nor _kelvar_. The Silmarils are crystals of _silima_ in which the Light of the Two Trees still survives.
Are the Silmarils cognizant? Yes, to some degree. I am cognizant. My dog is cognizant, too, but to a lesser degree. And lower creatures still are also cognizant of some things at one level or another. Whether they have _personalities_ is another matter altogether, but there is no indication of that of which I am aware.
The “inner fire” of the Silmarils is the Light of the Trees that still survives even though the Trees themselves were killed. It is not itself the Flame Imperishable any more than the _fëa_ of any Man or Elf in Arda was the Flame Imperishable. If you argue because that the Flame Imperishable is present in every _fëa_, and that this is the life of the _fëa_, so perhaps you can argue that, since the life of the Silmarils is their Light, you can _see_ the Flame Imperishable to some degree, then I think you are making a philosophical or religious argument within the context of the Tale in which a Faithful Númenórean or an Elda would gladly engage you.


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## Úlairi (Feb 21, 2009)

This is the first post in answer to a question of mine that is virtually exactly the same answer that I would have posted in response to it. Absolutely astounding. However there is one crucial difference: Verily, I say to thee, brevity begets poignancy! 

Hell, you've even covered the potential philosophical inclinations this post had... Insane... Wait, let me find you a befitting smiley:






Now to the post...



Alcuin said:


> The light was alive. The housing of the light – the crystal – was like the _hröa_ of the Incarnates. The _fëa_ was the light itself, the blended light of the Two Trees, which Tolkien says was alive. Whether it had high sentience, like a Noldo, or very low sentience, like a tree (a living thing of which we would normally say _no_ sentience yet still reacts to its environment), we are not told: but the light itself was alive.


 
Dead on. It's extremely difficult to classify the nature (especially at a philosophical level) of the level of cognizance of such a being. It's curious however that Tolkien would imbue light with such qualities; and I find this reference in _Letters _most perplexingly fascinating.



> _The Letters of JRR Tolkien_ - #_131: To Milton Waldman_
> 
> **...Light is such a primeval symbol in the Universe, that it can hardly be analysed. The Light of Valinor (derived from light before any fall) is the light of art undivorced from reason, that sees things both scientifically (or philosophically) and imaginatively (or subcreatively) and says that they are good' - as beautiful.*


 
It appears that Tolkien has given _Art_ 'life'! The embodiment of Art in its most quintessential of form imperishable. It appears the Silmarils may have been a metaphor for Tolkien's own desires through his _Legendarium_.

"_Life imitates art far more than art imitates life_." - Oscar Wilde.

This may be the _philosophy_ behind _The Life of the Silmarils_. The infusion of _Art_ and _Life_. 



Alcuin said:


> Fëanor did not create the life in the Silmarils and more than he could have created the life in a bird he found for which he built a fancy cage. The bird was alive on its own before the cage, and the light was alive before Fëanor conceived the _silima_ of which the crystals were constructed.


 
There are references to Morgoth potentially creating beasts at the beginnging of Arda. They were most likely Maiar corrupted to his service debasing themselves to the point of bestiality and sodomy.



Alcuin said:


> In light of this discussion (_pun, pun_), we can see from this opening that if we presume the light itself of the Two Trees alive, then Fëanor recognized the light as alive. Morgoth was already wandering free around Valinor, causing trouble in subtle ways, like sewing distrust and discord and dissention between Fëanor and his brothers. Elves and Men do have premonitions and foresight from time to time, and Fëanor, “come to his full might” and not yet fallen, might well have been given foresight to see that he should house “the light of the Trees” in some structure that would be “imperishable.”


 
I wasn't attempting to equate the context in which _imperishable_ was used to that of the _Flame Imperishable_. However, in _light_ of the above revelation of _Art _and _Life_ I am actually beginning to wonder if the creation of the Silmarils was indeed an encasing of the _Flame Imperishable_ (from a philosophical perspective, of course ).



Alcuin said:


> The Flame Imperishable is not the Light of the Silmarils or of the Two Trees. (The Light of the Silmarils and of the Two Trees is one and the same, I think: it seems to me that the life of the Trees was not the Trees themselves, but the Light in them: so that by breaking the Silmarils, Yavanna could have restored Life (Light) to the Trees.)


 
It's funny, at the start of the post I agreed with you on this point entirely as I had already concluded that myself. But I'm glad I had my reservations and asked the question anyway. The _Flame Imperishable_ resides within all Arda and the subcreation of the Two Trees. If _Light_ derives from this and is _alive_ I would actually contend that the _Flame Imperishable _also resides within the Silmarils also. The Silmarils as perhaps the ultimate (sub)creation in Arda are perhaps representation of Eru's Imperishable Flame. It still derives from Eru and Fëanor did not thus *create* _Life_, but rather_ *contained*_ it.





Alcuin said:


> So my answers to your questions are:
> 
> Are the Silmarils living beings? No, but the Light in them is alive. The Silmarils are their “house”, a constructed _hröa_ in which the Light can remain indefinitely.
> Did Fëanor create life? No, he created a “house” for a Living creature that had no “house”.
> ...


And after such a brilliant and succinct response that provided a broad coverage of the topic my options become:
Enter into a philosophical discussion about metaphor, allegory and ultimately philosophy (which I would enjoy).
Disagree with you on a point where no (or only quasi-) philosophical implications ensue, and
Walk away and go post elsewhere.
Don't much like option 3 unfortunately but options 1 and 2 look tantalizing.

And I've found a potential candidate for option 2:



> _The History of Middle-earth X: Morgoth's Ring - The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II): Laws A_
> 
> *For though the fëa in itself is not visible to bodily eyes, it is in light that the Eldar find the most fitting symbol in bodily terms of the indwelling spirit, the 'light of the house' or c&shy;öacalina as they also name it. And those in whom the fëa is strong and untainted, they say, appear even to mortal eyes to shine at times translucent (albeit faintly), as though a lamp burned within.*


 
Based on this excerpt I would most indeed contend that _fëa _do reside within the Silmarils (and of course the _Flame Imperishable_). This thread (in the context of this quote) then turns to the question of if Fëanor contained _fëa _within the Silmarils which derived from the Light of the Two Trees; how is it then that Yavanna created _Life _within the Two Trees? She did not call upon Eru in its (sub)creation nor are there any references to Eru kindling the _Flame Imperishable _within them (not as a derivative, as the Two Trees derived from the _Flame Imperishable;_ but as *absolute* _Life _- a _soul_). Yavanna had to consult Manwë before the creation of the Ents (or the Shepherds of the Forest, if you will) so that Eru could give them cognizance (or _souls_). Was Yavanna (Fëanor's Muse) the first to transcend the Laws of Arda and thus did Fëanor rise to the level of the Valar in the invention of the Silmarils (as it appears that Fëanor carved out separate _hröa_ for the _fëar_, or _fëa _of the Two Trees)? 

This took an unexpected turn... awesome... It's actually more interesting than I expected!

Btw, _The White Stripes_ aren't half-bad!

*Cheers Alcuin,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Bucky (Feb 22, 2009)

Are the Silmarils cognizant? Yes, to some degree.

*Where did you get that from?
Examples, please........


Edit: Nevermind.... I was thinking 'cognitive', not 'cognizant. *


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## Alcuin (Feb 22, 2009)

Bucky said:


> Are the Silmarils cognizant? Yes, to some degree.
> 
> *Where did you get that from?
> Examples, please........
> ...


Ok. 

And Thanks. 

Cognitive as opposed to cognizant is the issue. Are they "intelligent" life?I don't believe there is sufficient information to answer that.


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## Bucky (Feb 22, 2009)

Alcuin said:


> Ok.
> 
> And Thanks.
> 
> Cognitive as opposed to cognizant is the issue. Are they "intelligent" life?I don't believe there is sufficient information to answer that.



*Yes, it was late....

I hear 'cognitive' all the time having a son with autism......

Then it dawned on me it didn't say that.

Cognizant - 'aware'...

Yes, they seem aware indeed. The Simarils flashed brightly at certain times, burn the hands of evil (morgoth) or unclean if not wholly evil beings (Maedhros). They certainly had to be somewhat cognizant of their surroundings to do this.....


One thing that always struck me: Were the Three Elven Rings of Power, Air, Fire & Water, made this way based upon where the three Silmarils each found their final resting places? *


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## Úlairi (Feb 23, 2009)

Úlairi said:


> Based on this excerpt I would most indeed contend that _fëa _do reside within the Silmarils (and of course the _Flame Imperishable_). This thread (in the context of this quote) then turns to the question of if Fëanor contained _fëa _within the Silmarils which derived from the Light of the Two Trees; how is it then that Yavanna created _Life _within the Two Trees? She did not call upon Eru in its (sub)creation nor are there any references to Eru kindling the _Flame Imperishable _within them (not as a derivative, as the Two Trees derived from the _Flame Imperishable;_ but as *absolute* _Life _- a _soul_). Yavanna had to consult Manwë before the creation of the Ents (or the Shepherds of the Forest, if you will) so that Eru could give them cognizance (or _souls_). Was Yavanna (Fëanor's Muse) the first to transcend the Laws of Arda and thus did Fëanor rise to the level of the Valar in the invention of the Silmarils (as it appears that Fëanor carved out separate _hröa_ for the _fëar_, or _fëa _of the Two Trees)?


 
You guys don't have anything to say to this?

Perhaps I should break it down:

If Fëanor contained _fëa _within the Silmarils which derived from the Light of the Two Trees; how is it then that Yavanna created _Life _(or _souls_) within the Two Trees? As:
She did not call upon Eru in its (sub)creation nor are there any references to Eru kindling the _Flame Imperishable _within them (not as a derivative, as the Two Trees derived from the _Flame Imperishable;_ but as *absolute* _Life _- a _soul_).
Yavanna had to consult Manwë before the creation of the Ents (or the Shepherds of the Forest, if you will) so that Eru could give them cognizance (or _souls_).

Was Yavanna (Fëanor's Muse) the first to transcend the Laws of Arda and thus did Fëanor rise to the level of the Valar in the invention of the Silmarils (as it appears that Fëanor carved out separate _hröa_ for the _fëar_, or _fëa _of the Two Trees)?
*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Alcuin (Feb 23, 2009)

Bucky said:


> Cognizant - 'aware'...
> 
> Yes, they seem aware indeed. The Simarils {...} burn the hands of {...} unclean if not wholly evil beings (Maedhros). They certainly had to be somewhat cognizant of their surroundings to do this.....
> 
> One thing that always struck me: Were the Three Elven Rings of Power, Air, Fire & Water, made this way based upon where the three Silmarils each found their final resting places?


I had not considered that in a long time. I suspect there is some connection, and that the One Ring is the Ring of Earth, which has a strong Morgoth-element in it.



Úlairi said:


> .Yavanna ... did not call upon Eru in its (sub)creation nor are there any references to Eru kindling the _Flame Imperishable _within them (not as a derivative, as the Two Trees derived from the _Flame Imperishable;_ but as *absolute* _Life _- a _soul_).


The implication is that Yavanna did was she was _supposed_ to do. The Valar were greater Ainur, and all remained more strongly connected to Eru than even, say, Gandalf. (At least as Gandalf the Grey.) Perhaps this reflected a mighty part she played in the _Ainulindalë_. Unlike Aulë and the making of the Dwarves, which involved impatience and presumption on his part, there is no sign or indication that Yavanna did anything untoward in the making of the Two Trees.


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## Úlairi (Feb 24, 2009)

Alcuin said:


> The implication is that Yavanna did was she was _supposed_ to do.


 
Absolutely. In the c_onstruction _and _creation _of the Two Trees. The ability to create independent cognizant life was beyond her and all the Ainur alike. Yet we still have references to the Silmarils containing _cöacalina - _the _Light of the Fëa_. Obviously it was Ilúvatar who must have granted her this temporary ability; however, why would the Light of the Trees be imbued with cognizant life?



Alcuin said:


> The Valar were greater Ainur, and all remained more strongly connected to Eru than even, say, Gandalf. (At least as Gandalf the Grey.) Perhaps this reflected a mighty part she played in the _Ainulindalë_. Unlike Aulë and the making of the Dwarves, which involved impatience and presumption on his part, there is no sign or indication that Yavanna did anything untoward in the making of the Two Trees.


 
Conversely, there's nothing that infers that this connection enabled the ability to create souls within Light! If Light is such primeval symbol then how is it that Tolkien saw fit to literally bring _light _to _life_? 

Also;

*Do you believe that the Silmarils may potentially be Allegory for The Legendarium itself?* 

The preservation of Art imperishable? The Rings cannot be as they perished - but the Silmarils were "_everlasting_".

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Alcuin (Feb 24, 2009)

Úlairi said:


> Obviously it was Ilúvatar who must have granted her this temporary ability; however, why would the Light of the Trees be imbued with cognizant life?


Do you doubt that Eru Ilúvatar was the source of their _fëar_? 



Úlairi said:


> If Light is such primeval symbol then how is it that Tolkien saw fit to literally bring light to life?


Providential inspiration. What stronger symbol of purity and truth, of _holiness_ is there? As a stranger once asked Tolkien, _You don’t suppose you wrote all that yourself, do you?_ And Tolkien was speechless. “Pure Gandalf!” he later remarked. 



Úlairi said:


> Do you believe that the Silmarils may potentially be Allegory for The Legendarium itself?


I cannot get that far from here. But you give it a shot, and let us see it!


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## Úlairi (Feb 24, 2009)

Alcuin said:


> Do you doubt that Eru Ilúvatar was the source of their _fëar_?


 
Not at all, there just seems to be no mention of Eru at the making of the Two Trees which strikes me as odd.



Alcuin said:


> I cannot get that far from here. But you give it a shot, and let us see it!


 
Oh, you're evil... and lazy! 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Alcuin (Feb 24, 2009)

Úlairi said:


> Alcuin said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot get that far from here. But you give it a shot, and let us see it!
> ...


Nonsense. Ball's in your court. Volley.


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## Walter (Feb 24, 2009)

In the older versions of what became the Ainulindalë, Tolkien's Valar closely resemble the Aesir, the pagan gods of the Germanic/Northern mythology.

From earlier manuscripts it can also be gathered that Tolkien "borrowed" once more from Germanic/Northern tradition when he developed the character of Yavanna, at some point he seems to have pondered the name _Igdrasil_ for her. Even in the final versions she bears some resemblance to _Yggdrasil_, the "tree of life". Such a "tree of life" or "world-tree" can be found in a few Creation-Myths.

Only in the later versions T. tried to mingle the biblical creation myth with the Northern ones and Eru became "involved". In this light it wouldn't seem strange to me, if Eru was not directly involved in the making of the Two Trees.

IIRC the conception of fëar and hröar was a much later one, hence I am not sure it should be taken into consideration when trying to explain the light of the Two Trees...


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## Alcuin (Feb 24, 2009)

Walter said:


> IIRC the conception of fëar and hröar was a much later one, hence I am not sure it should be taken into consideration when trying to explain the light of the Two Trees...


Such an approach would leave us with Bingo Baggins as the protagonist of The Lord of the Rings, would it not?


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## Walter (Feb 24, 2009)

Alcuin said:


> Such an approach would leave us with Bingo Baggins as the protagonist of The Lord of the Rings, would it not?


Why would that be?


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## Úlairi (Feb 26, 2009)

Some interesting stuff here but I won't be able to get back to it for a few days.

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Illuin (Mar 2, 2009)

> Originally posted by Úlairi
> _Was Yavanna (Fëanor's Muse) the first to transcend the Laws of Arda and thus did Fëanor rise to the level of the Valar in the invention of the Silmarils (as it appears that Fëanor carved out separate hröa for the fëar, or fëa of the Two Trees)?_


 
Why is it that Yavanna always gets all of the recognition and praise? Nienna, teacher of Olórin, who played a large role in awakening the Two Trees is always completely left out. She must feel like the Jan Brady of Valinor.

Don’t worry Nienna, I haven’t forgotten you .


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## Illuin (Mar 2, 2009)

> Originally posted by Úlairi
> _Absolutely. In the construction and creation of the Two Trees. The ability to create independent cognizant life was beyond her and all the Ainur alike. Yet we still have references to the Silmarils containing cöacalina - the Light of the Fëa. Obviously it was Ilúvatar who must have granted her this temporary ability; however, why would the Light of the Trees be imbued with cognizant life?_


 

To add to your questions; if the Silmarils did indeed contain the light of the _fëa; or fëar _from the Two Trees, did this diminish the potency of the _fëa,_ or rather _"partial fëa" _that remained within the Two Trees before they were destroyed? Is it possible to even divide a _fëa _into individual constituents? Did Fëanor have the ability to split the _fëa _from the Two Trees into separate cognizant entities that were only mere fractions of the whole_? _



> *Morgoth’s Ring - LQS*
> 
> *…yet fëa and hrondo [> hröa] are not the same things; and though the fëa cannot be broken or disintegrated by any violence from without…..*


 
Even if this were possible, would the _fëa_ from the Two Trees be willing to do this ? It is possible (like with Men), that when these particular _fëa _departed from their _hröa_ and became unhoused, they had no say as to where they went thereafter; but the Silmarils were created when the Two Trees were still alive and well, before their _fëa _was unhoused. So again; if the Silmarils did indeed contain the light of the _fëa; or fëar _from the Two Trees; what do we make of this paltry dilemma? Any ideas?


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## Úlairi (Mar 2, 2009)

Nice... Gotta hand it to you there, Big Blue.

I'm back at Uni now (and consequently want to either go shoot something or quickly find my way to the bottom of a bottle of Scotch) so I'll have to deliberate over these questions and get back to you when possible.

Looks like we may have found ourselves another Tom Bombadil here... 

I still don't want to have to be the one to blink first on this question either:



Úlairi said:


> *Do you believe that the Silmarils may potentially be Allegory for The Legendarium itself?*


 
*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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