# Ring invisibility



## Úlairi (Apr 4, 2002)

We know that the One Ring rendered the wearer of it invisible. But did the Ring actually go invisible itself? Or did it look like a Ring that floated around in mid-air like when the Lord of the Nazgul reveals himself and all you can see is a crown? Any opinions?


----------



## shadowfax_g (Apr 4, 2002)

Your point of view surprised me!
I haven't imagined that the Ring itself remained visible while it was worn and floated arownd with the wearer's hand.
It's even conspicuous and makes ablosutely no use of being invisible, isn't it. However, I understood that people who are related to the Ring in certain meaning (e.g. Nazgûl, Gollum) would perceive it. Is that right?


----------



## Greenwood (Apr 4, 2002)

We have both positive and negative evidence that the Ring was also invisible when worn. The negative evidence first: there is the fact that no one ever reports seeing the Ring floating in the air when its wearer is invisible - for instance Merry in A Conspiracy Unmasked tells Frodo about how he first found out about the Ring; he says he happened to be looking right at Bilbo when Bilbo reappeared, but he only saw a glint of gold as Bilbo put the Ring back in his pocket. No where in the various accounts in either The Hobbit or LOTR does anyone report seeing a floating ring. This is of course, as I say negative evidence, but there is a fair amount of it. Next we have the positive evidence. When the wearer puts on the Ring, he disappears, clothes and all. It is clearly not an invisibility like H. G. Wells Invisible Man where the person's body disappears, but to be completely invisible the person has to be naked. If everything else the person is wearing disappears, why would the Ring stay visible? Everything else the wearer has on has disappeared.


----------



## LadyGaladriel (Apr 4, 2002)

*Intersting Point!*

I suspect that the ring went invisable because there was no way of seeing Frodo at all.


----------



## tyeruler (Apr 4, 2002)

I agree w/ lady galadriel......if the ring remained visable, then how could Frodo, Bilbo, and Gollum be unseen when ever the ring is on???


----------



## Rohansangel (Apr 4, 2002)

The ring is also invisible -- The wearer is wearing it, and everything else the wearer wears is invisible, so why not the Ring too? Besides, it's a Ring of Power ... There wouldn't be a flaw like that in a RoP.

~The Angel of Rohan


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 5, 2002)

That's some good points there Greenwood. I do not think that you would have to be naked to be invisible with the Ring on though! As for the Ring going to the spirit-realm itself, that is an interesting concept as seeing the Ring is part-Maiar because of the power Sauron put into it. It says that the Ring and Sauron were One and that Sauron had put a lot of his 'being' into the Ring. We therefore might assume that the Ring was 'part-Maiar' therefore going into the spirit-realm also.


----------



## LadyGaladriel (Apr 5, 2002)

*???*

the ring's proper mission as such was to help sauron with his power of enslaving the liberated races not to make the person invisable . I think it was more a sideeffect as such . What does everyoneelse think?


----------



## ReadWryt (Apr 5, 2002)

Remember too that Bilbo wandered around for quite a while wearing the ring following the Dwarves when they had been captured by the Wood Elves, whose keen eyesight was the stuff of legends. For DAYS he wandered about invisible fearing that his very shadow would give him away. Certainly had the Ring, so perfect and beautifull, not itself been unseen then the Wood Elves would have noticed it floating about!

As for things like Nakedness and such, remember that the ring, being magical, did not create invisibility in the same manner that one might think in a scientific sense, after all...the wearer still had some shadow, and the wearer could SEE! If a person were truely turned invisible they would, in fact, become blind as a board. Photons passing freely through the rods and cones on the back of the eyeball would never trigger the optic nerve...so what probably happened was that the person was made UNSEEN by those around them, which sounds at first blush like symantical gymnastics, but there is a world of difference between something being Invisible and Unseeable...ask your favorite local Magician!

I cannot conceive of any reason that Sauron would have desired lesser beings to become unseeable when wearing the ring. He himself was not unseen when the broken shard of Narsil cleaved the finger bearing the ring from his hand at the end of the second age, and Bombadil was quite visible wearing it, which leads us to believe that the Hobbits, Elves, Men and Dwarves would be thus affected but not Mair, Valar and the like.

It would actually have been in his best interest for the OPPOSITE to happen, if a giant magical neon arrow pointing at the happless individual who put the ring on would make obvious to all that this was the holder of the One Ring. From this one might well assume that this was an undesired and unplanned for effect...


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 5, 2002)

So ReadWryt, what you're basically sayinf is that those who had not the will nor the power to control the One went invisible as some sort of side-effect whereas people or spirits who did have the will and/or the power to control did not go invisible. If this is so, I agree with you completely. I always thought that the Ring went invisible also, I merely posted this thread to see the reactions of what people may think of this new concept. Never have I thought that the Ring was visible.


----------



## Rangerdave (Apr 5, 2002)

*Invisible?*

So far as I remember, no Elf has ever been shown wearing the One Ring. If this is true, then the only species to have turned invisible by wearing the Ring have all been mortal. Namely Hobbits, Men and Hobbit-like Smeagol. So the ring might not actually bring about invisibility, but rather shift the wearer from the mundane plane of Men and Hobbits into a plane normally only personed by higher powers such as the Maiar and Valar. It would be interesting to see what would happen to an Elf.
Also, It may very well depend on the Elf in question. Legolas may go invisable, whereas Galadriel may not.

I hope this made sense.
Let me know what you think
RD


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 6, 2002)

Very interesting concept Rangerdave, I agree with you but I think that all elves would NOT turn invisible when using the One Ring because the elves were both existent in the spiritual and physical realms. So, if an elf put the One on, they would merely go to where they already were, hence not making them invisible. I deduced this from your interesting theory Rangerdave.


----------



## Rangerdave (Apr 6, 2002)

*Thanks Ulairi*

Very true, very true.

I guess what I was trying to get at before you set me straight was if Calaquendi Elves were somehow more Elvish than the Moriquendi. Since Galadriel had seen the trees of Aman would she somehow be more that the Legolas who was probably descended purely from Laiquendi bloodlines.

Actually, it does not really matter, just picking nits.
Thanks again

RD


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 6, 2002)

Yes, one of our favourite pastimes, eh Rangerdave? I just loooooove nit-picking!


----------



## Elanor2 (Apr 6, 2002)

I think I posted this before, but do we know if all the rings could make you invisible?

I had a theory that the One Ring used the invisibility as a way for self-defense after it left Sauron's hand. I through that perhaps the Ring was making itself useful to the new owners by using a cheap trick, and that way getting a hold on the new owner. Additionally, the idea of being invisible could also make the new owner get ideas of doing some mischief, and that would get the hold of the Ring more powerful if the owner did something evil with it under the cover of invisibility.

How does it sound?


----------



## Lantarion (Apr 6, 2002)

Hmm, perhaps, perhaps..

But I agree with Rangerdave that an Elf would not turn invisible when wearing the Ring. As was stated at the chapter in FotR "Flight to the Ford", the Elf-lord Glorfindel shone like some strange powerful being, and I believe there was a mention of his power over the Unseen as well as the Seen. And I would think that any power given to Glorfindel would be posessed by all Elves. 
I also believe that Maiar do not turn invisible when wearing the Ring, which can again be connected to the fact that both Elves and Maiar can walk in both the Seen and Unseen worlds.

Anyway, I think that the Ring was invisible as well as the wearer. It was the link between the Seen and Unseen worlds for mortals (apparently), and if the Ring 'teleported' the wearer into the Unseen then the device itself would naturally accompany the bearer.


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 7, 2002)

Minor correction here, Pontifex, I was the one who made the statement that Elves would not turn invisible not Rangerdave. As for Elanor2, good theory, but it is lacking the fact that invisibility was the side-effect if a mortal bears it and one without the will nor the power to control it.


----------



## Rangerdave (Apr 10, 2002)

*lacking proof*

I tend to agree that elves would not disappear when wearing the ring. But this is only a theory and lacks and real proof

Up until its destruction, only two imortals have worn the ring, and neither have gone invisible. But lets look at that for a moment shall we.
1. Sauron wore it: But his staying visible proves nothing since it was his ring to begin with. 
2. Tom wore it. Also proves nothing because nobody knows for sure who or what Tom is. Saving of course that Tom is Jolly

So what are the conclusions about invisibility and Elves? I would have say none.

This is my theory which is to say it is mine!
(10 point bonus to whoever recognizes that one)

enjoy
RD


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 10, 2002)

Read back a few posts Rangerdave. It was my theory, and it was hypothetical based on what evidence you have given. I am glad to see that some people can read my mind (sort of). I know that there is no proof but there is one shred of evidence that I have based this theory on, and that is the fact that any immortal person always exists in both the physical and sprit-realms. Tolkien states that himself in LoJRRT.


----------



## Shadowfax (Apr 15, 2002)

here's something I've always wondered- in the Hobbit, and the beginning of FotR, the wearer of the ring has no indication that s/he is invisible. Yet later on, they become enshrouded in a mist. Why is that?


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 15, 2002)

That one is inexplicable Shadowfax!


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 17, 2002)

Perhaps someone else has an idea?


----------



## syongstar (Apr 18, 2002)

*ring*

the ring became invisible because it took one TO another dimension


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 19, 2002)

They didn't go to another dimension, the wearer went to the spirit-realm syongstar. Where on earth did you pull that one from?


----------



## Grond (Apr 21, 2002)

Here's what the author says about the matter. This is from Fellowship of the Ring, The Shadow of the Past, 


> 'In many ways,' answered the wizard. 'It is far more powerful than I ever dared to think at first, so powerful that in the end it would utterly overcome anyone of mortal race who possessed it. It would possess him.'
> 
> 'In Eregion long ago many Elven-rings were made, magic rings as you call them, and they were, of course, of various kinds: some more potent and some less. The lesser rings were only essays in the craft before it was full-grown, and to the Elven-smiths they were but trifles - yet still to my mind dangerous for mortals. But the Great Rings, the Rings of Power, they were perilous.
> 
> 'A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. And if he often uses the Ring to make himself invisible, he fades: he becomes in the end invisible permanently, and walks in the twilight under the eye of the dark power that rules the Rings. Yes, sooner or later - later, if he is strong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last - sooner or later the dark power will devour him.'


Those are JRRT's words spoken by Gandalf.


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 21, 2002)

Thankyou for the evidence Grond. I should have posted it myself as I usually do, but I was just too lazy. We have those days eh Grond?


----------



## legolas_is_hot (Apr 21, 2002)

*i have a question...........*

where does frodo go when he puts on the ring? is he invisible, i think he is cuz in the movie, he was this close to um wazz his name, (one of the bad guys) and he didnt see frodo.


----------



## Greenwood (Apr 21, 2002)

*Re: i have a question...........*



> _Originally posted by legolas_is_hot _
> *where does frodo go when he puts on the ring? is he invisible, i think he is cuz in the movie, he was this close to um wazz his name, (one of the bad guys) and he didnt see frodo.  *



Yes, the Ring makes its wearer invisible.


----------



## Ged (Apr 21, 2002)

I rather like ReadWryt's hypothesis that wearing the ring causes other people NOT TO SEE the ringbearer, rather than making the ringbearer literally invisible - ie so that light passes completely through them. This is very elegant.

It also means something else: the power of the ring to make somebody invisible (a "weak" person at least) depends upon its hold over the person who is looking. This is why Bombadil could still see Frodo. The ring had no power over HIM.


----------



## Úlairi (Apr 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ged _
> *I rather like ReadWryt's hypothesis that wearing the ring causes other people NOT TO SEE the ringbearer, rather than making the ringbearer literally invisible - ie so that light passes completely through them. This is very elegant.
> 
> It also means something else: the power of the ring to make somebody invisible (a "weak" person at least) depends upon its hold over the person who is looking. This is why Bombadil could still see Frodo. The ring had no power over HIM. *



Yes, I agree. Watch out for my new thread which goes a little deeper into the invisibilty topic. It is going to be a real eye-cathcer!


----------

