# Feanor is the best Eldar, right?



## cart (May 23, 2022)

I was in a thread about Fingolfin vs Feanor and the vibe was.... off-putting. Though perhaps it was about some other Feanor I'm unaware of.

Just a reminder: "For Feanor was made the *mightiest in all parts of body and mind: in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike: of all the Children of Iluvatar, *and a bright flame was in him." 

and 

"Thus it was that he drew far ahead of the van of his host, and seeing this the servants of Morgoth turned to bay, and there issued from Angband Balrogs to aid them. There upon the confines of Dor Daedeloth, the land of Morgoth, *Feanor was surrounded, with few friends about him. Soon he stood alone; but long he fought on, and laughed undismayed, though he was wrapped in fire and wounded with many wounds*."

And please, I had was involved in a ship wreck as a child so no posts about ships, those that craft them, water, as it will trigger me. 

Thank you


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## Olorgando (May 23, 2022)

Against Fëanor, JRRT himself placed Fëanor's niece Galdriel, who at lest in wisdom was far above him. In fact, he wasn't even second to her in that respect, he wasn't even in the top ten, maybe not even in the top 40.

And Fëanor was also "greatest" of the Eldar in just about every negative character trait you can name. Where he basically had a "reading" of zero was in self-control. As nihilist, he was only topped by Morgoth, even Sauron wasn't in the same league.

But anyway, welcome to TTF, cart.


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## cart (May 24, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> But anyway, welcome to TTF, cart.


Glad to be here!

In regards to the wisdom bit, if he had that... then he would simply just be a bit over powered at that point. If he was notable for this quality as well.. then the LotR would never of happened and we would be like year 6500 Y.N. (year of the Noldor.) And everybody would be very happy, not dead (except probably all of mankind.. they would probably not survive, but that's a human issue.)

Quite frankly, if Manwe hadn't let the very essence of evil out of the Halls of Mandos.. (not to mention.. not clean up the rest of his mess i.e. balrogs and Sauron) Noldor people don't get corrupted, Feanor doesn't gets thrown in jail while being corrupted my Melkor, his father doesn't get killed, trees don't get drained, silmarils stay with their rightful owner, well this list would go on for some time. 

Not to mention the Noldor were the only ones to even go and do something about Manwe's inability to detect evil as he is so pure. Odd that he signed up for the roll that is basically exclusively that.. but it was is brother of sorts.. not saying it was nepotism but... idk... lets him go.. and then realizes "oops he's still pure evil.. well let me throw Feanor in jail for a bit.. this problem will surely take care of itself" and then... just hangs out with elves and feeds his giant eagles i guess until the end of Arda.

But again that's not particularly interesting either, hard to write material on an alternate version of a perfect world (men survive this time.)

I mean you can hate the man (though I'm not sure why you would.. he did nothing wrong) but he certainly got... or at the very least attempted to get things done. While the rest just.. vibed?


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## Ealdwyn (May 24, 2022)

I'm #teamfingolfin on this one.

Fingolfin rides out alone all the way to the gate of Angband. His eyes shone "like the eyes of the Valar" and those who look upon him flee his wrath. At Angband he blows on his horn and calls out a challenge to Morgoth to face him in single combat. But Morgoth doesn’t want to go out and battle Fingolfin - “alone of the Valar he knew fear.” Morgoth is AFRAID of Fingolfin! But Fingolfin calls him craven in front of his captains and servants and slaves. To refuse is to lose face, so Morgoth must answer the challenge.

Fingolfin holds his own against Morgoth - surely no other Elf could last as long? Fingolfin wounds Morgoth repeatedly, and each shout of pain sends his minions falling to the ground. Fingolfin has him crying out seven times and the cries echo throughout the North. But fighting Morgoth eventually wears Fingolfin down, and with his shield and helm broken, stricken by Grond, he hits the ground. But even as Morgoth’s foot is upon his neck, Fingolfin gets in one final bloody slash, and Morgoth is limping forevermore.

That beats Feanor's scrap with the Balrogs any time.


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## 1stvermont (May 24, 2022)

I put Fëanor second behind Galadriel.


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## cart (May 26, 2022)

Ealdwyn said:


> I'm #teamfingolfin on this one.
> 
> Fingolfin rides out alone all the way to the gate of Angband. His eyes shone "like the eyes of the Valar" and those who look upon him flee his wrath. At Angband he blows on his horn and calls out a challenge to Morgoth to face him in single combat. But Morgoth doesn’t want to go out and battle Fingolfin - “alone of the Valar he knew fear.” Morgoth is AFRAID of Fingolfin! But Fingolfin calls him craven in front of his captains and servants and slaves. To refuse is to lose face, so Morgoth must answer the challenge.
> 
> ...


I will reply with a copy paste of my response that also discussed these battles from the thread that led to the realization that Feanor seems to get the short end of the stick:
Id give Feanor 3:2 likelihood to win.

Their descriptions are in some contradiction to one another (I forget what exactly as it has been a long time) but I know they were both described as being the strongest of the the Children of Illuvatar among other contradictions.. Feanor has the greatest endurance and basically is described as being the ultimate Elf and best/strongest in all ways. Though I will give the strength nod to Fingolfin all the same and assume that was Tolk's intention was for him to be the strongest and be the most or 2nd only to Feanor to have the qualities that make for the best warrior.... with one exception (that is shown in Feanor's battle) is Feanor has the greatest endurance and the greatest spirit, also known as Fea (so his name checks out.) So I would assume has the strongest soul and was most "blessed(?)" with the secret fire/flame imperishable hence his name and likely (though this could be understood reasonably otherwise) some references to the "bright flame" that burned within Feanor.

Their greatest battles lean towards Feanor (imo) for which I will explain after. With Fingolfin's biggest battle ofc being with *Morgoth, who (like Sauron) is a coward a*nd would only endanger himself out of necessity or knowing there is no chance of death. (Which makes for more compelling baddies imo) as they spin their webs and corrupt others to do their bidding casting the lives of others into chaos and death and never their own if they are able. Morgoth only fought Fingolfin because he HAD to.. i mean imagine a dude talking trash in your front yard and even then still being afraid to go out.. despite being the greatest of the Valar. *Fingolfin wounds him 7(?) times the mightiest of all the Valar* and is dodging him left and right.. but tired out.. and Morgoth basically smashes him down 3 times and the final time he gets a last cut in..

*So Morgoth had a fear that he could be slain by Fingolfin or at the very least damaged to an extent it would have a very large impact on him (which says something) and got some good licks on the mightiest of the Valar.*

-----------------------

Then you got Feanor's deeds (we are just going to skip the whole kinslaying stuff.. I doubt the Noldor would have gotten along with Ents.. very hasty they are):

"He knew naught of Angband or the great strength of defence that Morgoth had so swiftly prepared; *but had he known, it would not have deterred him, for fey he was, consumed by the flame of his own wrath*. Thus it was that he drew far ahead of the van of his host, and seeing this the servants of Morgoth turned to bay, and there issued from *Angband Balrogs* to aid them. There upon the confines of Dor Daedeloth, the land of Morgoth, *Feanor was surrounded, with few friends about him. Soon he stood alone; but long he fought on, and laughed undismayed, though he was wrapped in fire and wounded with many wounds. But at the last Gothmog, Lord of the Balrog*s, smote him to the ground, and there he would have perished".. (until homies and eagles (late as usual) pick him up)

So another L but this is a pretty Kratos like L (if Kratos took Ls.) And while the details of the battle with gothmog are (at least to me, not fleshed out much) I can't say I'm too concerned about that.

*Though Feanor's L was a more impressive L.... as he was fighting the same Balrogs that fought off Ungoliant that WAS going to destroy Morgoth. So Feanor, held off the Balrogs that could kill that which can kill Melkor. And after what could be seen as a long battle despite being wounded all over until after he had been at battle and damaged for some time the Lord of Balrogs finally smote him to the ground. Also, take note that he didn't tire out like Fingolfin did.*

So Feanor wins.... and i change my likelihood in Feanor's favor to 2:1.

EDIT: My reply to your question as to whether any could last as long to Morgoth I would say Feanor as he would of lasted longer if solely due to his endurance alone and I'll set aside other possible contradictions as they are described, though tend to lean towards Fingolfin's side on strength as it would seem odd for him to not have some quality that that would give him some clear separation from his brethren, if only by a little.

@1stvermont I find it hard to compare Galadriel to those that had major roles or accomplished great deeds in the first age or prior as she seemed limited in her role. Though I would think she to be in the top 5, as Fingolfin, Feanor or Galadriel could reasonably be in anyone's #1 with cause. 

Though I am surprised by the lack of mention of Luthien being half-Maia.. and was able to put Morgoth and his court to sleep (while not exactly the Noldor way of getting things done) still her story and reasons that led to Tolkien writing this love interest does make her a bit different that the others mentioned.

(not to mention him having no intention of kids such as i was.. and still to this day as an adult imagining dragonball z style fights of his characters)


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## Elassar (Jul 5, 2022)

Look at the feanor Vs fingolfin thread and all reasons stated their is my back up on saying fingolfin Is the greatest of the eldar.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 5, 2022)

I think Feanor is extremely impassioned, and yet I do not approve of many of the things he has done. He began and led many of the worst events in the beginning of The Silmarillion. He was largely involved in the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, among many other things. 

I think your definition of 'best' is the question. Is being the best achieved through strength? Strength of mind, or strength of hroa? If you are talking about strength in battle, I think a better wording would be "Feanor is the greatest warrior, right?" 

I don't approve of many things that Feanor did. I think he was very much on fire with his own beliefs, but they were not always correct beliefs.


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## Gothmog (Jul 5, 2022)

I look at the title of this thread and also at the wording of the question for the vote, I tell you that there is no way that Feanor can be considered the "The Best" nor the "Greatest". Two points that clearly show that he is greatest only in how bad he was:


> Quenta Silmarillion
> _Chapter 9_
> *Of the Flight of the Noldor*
> 
> Then Fëanor swore a terrible oath. His seven sons leapt straightway to his side and took the selfsame vow together, and red as blood shone their drawn swords in the glare of the torches. they swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by the name even of Ilúvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if they kept it not; and Manwë they named in witness, and Varda, and the hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession.


and


> Quenta Silmarillion
> 
> _Chapter 13_
> *Of the Return of the Noldor*
> ...


This oath is the cause of the Kinslayings in Aman and Middle-earth.
As Mandos stated:


> Quenta Silmarillion
> _Chapter 9_
> *Of the Flight of the Noldor*
> 
> 'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar Leith from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 5, 2022)

Gothmog said:


> I look at the title of this thread and also at the wording of the question for the vote, I tell you that there is no way that Feanor can be considered the "The Best" nor the "Greatest". Two points that clearly show that he is greatest only in how bad he was:
> 
> and
> 
> ...


I agree with this completely. The oath and the words of Mandos rule out any possibility for Feanor to be the best or greatest. It is obvious that he did some things that were good, but primarily he did not. Feanor is not the best nor greatest.


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## Radaghast (Jul 5, 2022)

Best in what way? Power? Yes, probably? In terms of personality and morality? Emphatically not.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 5, 2022)

Radaghast said:


> Best in what way? Power? Yes, probably? In terms of personality and morality. Emphatically not.


Agreed. Feanor may be extremely powerful, but in terms of most anything else, he is far from great.


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Just for the record, Treebeard in Training does not prefer questions of this kind as they inevitably reveal differences of opinion, which inevitably lead to disagreements about the reasoning for the opinions, which inevitably lead to the fighting over opinions, and which rarely (if ever) result in the changing of opinions.

If anyone other than me tends to see a repetitive word in the above that begins with an "o", I think that is a good thing...! 

(Not that this matters - I just felt like saying it.) 😁


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 6, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> fighting over opinions


I prefer the term "reasoned debates". 😀

You have a point, but if you look through the older threads here, you'll find some cases where opinions actually _were _changed. 

Rare though they may be.😄


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I prefer the term "reasoned debates". 😀
> 
> You have a point, but if you look through the older threads here, you'll find some cases where opinions actually _were _changed.
> 
> Rare though they may be.😄



Indeed. Thus my 'rarely'. And, I would guess the changes were made by those who were indeed 'reasonably debating' rather than arguing.
(In my experience, a rather small portion of the human species at large.)

One COULD of course speculate (and make a case) that such a forum as this may actually have an unproportionate number of those both able to, and given to, 'reasonable debate' rather than simply 'argument'. ) 

And I confess, the 'arguments' referred to by the prior post(er) did not seem to me to be in any way as vehement as other places I have had the misfortune to join, and ultimately subsequently depart from. PLUS, all of the postings I saw (even when they lacked specific citation) cited their remembrance of the wording or background that would support their 'view'. (Note the adjustment from Opinion to View here.)

I will happily engage in all 'reasonable debates' (especially when 'debate' is defined as 'discussion'). In fact it's precisely what I seek. 
And, I will just as happily refrain or disengage from all 'argument of opinion'. (defined as 'contention' - 'insistence on agreement with one's view'.) (I'm just too old to spend what time and energies remain to me in things that likely will not have at least a potential value in the end.)

The only current 'debate' I am following wherever I can until I'm settled on the matter myself, is what we classify or define as "FanFic" with regard to the Tolkien universe, vs. what we classify or define as part of the 'Canon'. (though I think I'm near the end even of that, and recognize it's a 'matter of opinion' to each individual - more or less - having the usual 2 or 3 categories of adherents - the 'purists', the 'accepting', and the 'abandoned'. With Tolkien, however, the 'abandoned' seems a nearly insignificant group, compared say, to the A.C. Doyle group.)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> Indeed. Thus my 'rarely'. And, I would guess the changes were made by those who were indeed 'reasonably debating' rather than arguing.
> (In my experience, a rather small portion of the human species at large.)
> 
> One COULD of course speculate (and make a case) that such a forum as this may actually have an unproportionate number of those both able to, and given to, 'reasonable debate' rather than simply 'argument'. )
> ...


It is certainly a matter of opinions to question who is the "best" Eldar, as obviously there is no clear way to know, and it is just a difference of view and opinion. However, I still engage in such discussions as they show me why others think the way they do, and provide an opportunity for me to reveal the same. We don't always actually change opinions, or come to another's view, but I love getting insight into the minds of other Tolkien-lovers, and because of this, I have always felt it worth my time.


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## d4rk3lf (Jul 6, 2022)

Define - best 
I think he was the strongest, and no doubt the best smith among Noldors. 
But far from best in other departments. 
He was arrogant, selfish, and short tempered... a fool.. some might say.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

d4rk3lf said:


> Define - best
> I think he was the strongest, and no doubt the best smith among Noldors.
> But far from best in other departments.
> He was arrogant, selfish, and short tempered... a fool.. some might say.


Some might indeed say such.
True, he was a valiant warrior, a skilled craftsman, an impassioned fighter, and yet his deeds fall short of such great expectations. He acted selfishly, arrogantly, and his oath truly seals in my mind that he was no "best" among the Eldar.


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Some might indeed say such.
> True, he was a valiant warrior, a skilled craftsman, an impassioned fighter, and yet his deeds fall short of such great expectations. He acted selfishly, arrogantly, and his oath truly seals in my mind that he was no "best" among the Eldar.



I do believe d4rk3lf's statement "Define - best" is probably the most pertinent comment thus far made.
Without that definition, we increase the range of potential answers exponentially.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> I do believe d4rk3lf's statement "Define - best" is probably the most pertinent comment thus far made.
> Without that definition, we increase the range of potential answers exponentially.


As do I. If no definition is given, no clear conclusion can be made.


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## Elassar (Jul 6, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> I do believe d4rk3lf's statement "Define - best" is probably the most pertinent comment thus far made.
> Without that definition, we increase the range of potential answers exponentially.


Agreed


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## Gothmog (Jul 6, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> I do believe d4rk3lf's statement "Define - best" is probably the most pertinent comment thus far made.
> Without that definition, we increase the range of potential answers exponentially.


Normally I would not only agree with this comment but would be likely to put it forward myself. However, while the title of the thread simply uses "Best", the question includes a definition. The most important part of that definition is in brackets "(Who did nothing wrong)". This clearly prevents Feanor from being considered due to the great number of "Wrongs" that he did and caused.

And yes, I agree that there is not one character, Elf, Man, Valar, Maiar, Ainur, or even Eru himself, who "Did nothing wrong"!


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Gothmog said:


> Normally I would not only agree with this comment but would be likely to put it forward myself. However, while the title of the thread simply uses "Best", the question includes a definition. The most important part of that definition is in brackets "(Who did nothing wrong)". This clearly prevents Feanor from being considered due to the great number of "Wrongs" that he did and caused.
> 
> And yes, I agree that there is not one character, Elf, Man, Valar, Maiar, Ainur, or even Eru himself, who "Did nothing wrong"!



Ah, indeed you are correct. I (errantly?!) failed to check out the title of the 'voting booth' itself, and based my comment on the primary title I saw. 
*"Feanor is the best Eldar, right?"*​


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

Gothmog said:


> Normally I would not only agree with this comment but would be likely to put it forward myself. However, while the title of the thread simply uses "Best", the question includes a definition. The most important part of that definition is in brackets "(Who did nothing wrong)". This clearly prevents Feanor from being considered due to the great number of "Wrongs" that he did and caused.
> 
> And yes, I agree that there is not one character, Elf, Man, Valar, Maiar, Ainur, or even Eru himself, who "Did nothing wrong"!


'Tis true. It seems that my eyes failed to perceive such also. If this indeed is the definition of best, then Feanor must not be counted best among these.


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## cart (Jul 12, 2022)

if im being honest, i forgot i made this post.
though i will say it was made half-jokingly... which i thought the trigger warning of no mentions of ships, those that make them or water be allowed somewhat made clear.

with that said, i would find it quite reasonable to find Feanor, Galadriel, Fingolfin, Elrond, Luthien, Gil-Galad, Glorfindel, and one often overlooked (and the antithesis of Feanor in many ways) would of course be Cirdan all capable of being the most "powerful/influential/dopest" elf..... who of course did nothing wrong.


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## cart (Jul 16, 2022)

I will add my reasoning (no joking involved) as to why I love the character of Feanor so much though. As I suppose that is warranted and overdue.

Feanor is the most morally complex character perhaps in all of the stories of Middle Earth. He is not evil like Morgoth/Sauron are evil. He was not inherently evil nor set out into the world to cause evil. It was his utter brilliance in all things be they of body or mind, of charisma or crafting and along with the faults of his personality that lead to ultimately one of (and obviously in my opinion) the most interesting characters in all the Lore. If it wasn't for these faults the first age would of turned out radically different, the second age perhaps unrecognizable and perhaps the third age never would of occurred as if there was a Kingdom of the Noldor led by Feanor himself... I think there is no shot Sauron rises to the the level of power in the second age that he eventually does.

So, in many ways IT IS HIS FAULTS that draw my interest to him (and all of our interest in one way or another) And for a character arc I'm drawn to it in only a positive and thankful way. Though I think it too often that he is often simply brushed off as simply the "bad elf that made the Silmarils."


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## Gothmog (Jul 16, 2022)

cart said:


> I will add my reasoning (no joking involved) as to why I love the character of Feanor so much though. As I suppose that is warranted and overdue.
> 
> Feanor is the most morally complex character perhaps in all of the stories of Middle Earth. He is not evil like Morgoth/Sauron are evil. He was not inherently evil nor set out into the world to cause evil. It was his utter brilliance in all things be they of body or mind, of charisma or crafting and along with the faults of his personality that lead to ultimately one of (and obviously in my opinion) the most interesting characters in all the Lore. If it wasn't for these faults the first age would of turned out radically different, the second age perhaps unrecognizable and perhaps the third age never would of occurred as if there was a Kingdom of the Noldor led by Feanor himself... I think there is no shot Sauron rises to the the level of power in the second age that he eventually does.
> 
> So, in many ways IT IS HIS FAULTS that draw my interest to him (and all of our interest in one way or another) And for a character arc I'm drawn to it in only a positive and thankful way. Though I think it too often that he is often simply brushed off as simply the "bad elf that made the Silmarils."


You make valid points and with a different definition in the question there would indeed be different answers here:


> And they mourned not more for the death of the Trees than the marring of Fëanor: of the works of Melkor one of the most evil. For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him. the works of wonder for the glory of Arda that he might otherwise have wrought only Manwë might in some measure conceive.


The potential of Fëanor for good and beauty was truly great and it was Melkor trying to cause evil where ever he could that resulted in the actions of Fëanor even though Fëanor would not listen to Melkor and shunned him in Aman.


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## Olorgando (Jul 16, 2022)

cart said:


> ... He is not evil like Morgoth/Sauron are evil. He was not inherently evil nor set out into the world to cause evil. It was his utter brilliance in all things be they of body or mind, of charisma or crafting and along with the faults of his personality that lead to ultimately one of (and obviously in my opinion) the most interesting characters in all the Lore. ...


One can, and I do, look at Fëanor from a radically different perspective. And I'll go back, so to speak, when he was still in Míriel's womb.
JRRT has written that childbearing was more of a drain on Elven women that it was for human women. Which is why, in his musings on the topic in what Hostetter published in his NoMe in the longest part, the first one, in an extremely abbreviated form they need very long periods of recovery between births.

Now we all know what happened after his birth. Míriel basically flatly stated that he would have no siblings by her. More seriously than that, she gave up her hröa, and her fëa went to the Halls of Mandos, declaring that she never wanted to return. This (self-)caused JRRT *himself* no end of trouble, which he tried to answer with reams of writing, not the least "Laws and Customs among the Eldar".

So how can we look at this decision by Míriel? My view is that Fëanor's absolutely defining characteristic, his matchless narcissism (only Melkor comes close) was there even while he was a fetus in Míriel's womb. He drained his mother as he had no right to do - I would go so far as that he *killed* his mother with his greed - she then dying as Elves can die - but *in Valinor*, and she became the first non-Ainu inhabitant of Mandos's halls.

Then his brilliance - no question about that, but I insist that it was quite limited, to craftsmanship. Gems, especially the Silmarils, his alphabet - but things kind of dry up after that. In modern terms, he was a nerd. What he was an unmatched disaster area in was in interpersonal relationships. Not surprising assuming, as I do, that he started out pre-birth with an unmatched narcissism. His undoubted, if, as I propose, limited brilliance then led to him developing his second defining trait - arrogance. I have a private definition of arrogance (though I doubt I "invented" it all on my own) - it's an alloy ... like bronze. Which is (or was) typically an alloy of about 88% copper (Cu) and about 12% tin (Sn). What the 12% in any arrogant person may consist of is immensely variable - but I'm certain of what the 88% consists of:

ignorance.

And what Fëanor seems constantly have been utterly ignorant of was the feelings of others -
... just a side note: Fëanor, the single child, was then himself the father of seven sons ... and his wife refused to join him and his deluded sons in the rebellion of the Noldor ...

Interesting character? Not for long after the arrival of the Noldor back in Middle-earth (though his brain-dead oath that he managed to get his deluded sons to swear lasted to the end of the First Age of the sun). And it reminds me of a yearly Time Magazine "award", named logically "... of the year", but given, as they often have to explain, to the "person, group, idea, or object that "*for better or for worse...* has done the most to influence the events of the year""

Which explains the choices Adolf Hitler (1938) and Joseph Stalin (1939 and 1942) ... the latter two perhaps.
But yes, I find Fëanor interesting in a similar way as these two human monsters.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 17, 2022)

cart said:


> I will add my reasoning (no joking involved) as to why I love the character of Feanor so much though. As I suppose that is warranted and overdue.
> 
> Feanor is the most morally complex character perhaps in all of the stories of Middle Earth. He is not evil like Morgoth/Sauron are evil. He was not inherently evil nor set out into the world to cause evil. It was his utter brilliance in all things be they of body or mind, of charisma or crafting and along with the faults of his personality that lead to ultimately one of (and obviously in my opinion) the most interesting characters in all the Lore. If it wasn't for these faults the first age would of turned out radically different, the second age perhaps unrecognizable and perhaps the third age never would of occurred as if there was a Kingdom of the Noldor led by Feanor himself... I think there is no shot Sauron rises to the the level of power in the second age that he eventually does.
> 
> So, in many ways IT IS HIS FAULTS that draw my interest to him (and all of our interest in one way or another) And for a character arc I'm drawn to it in only a positive and thankful way. Though I think it too often that he is often simply brushed off as simply the "bad elf that made the Silmarils."


Many good points indeed.

I have always respected Feanor as a rather impassioned character in every way, and because of that I have had some affection or some thither towards him. Of course, you are right. Feanor is not a purely Evil character, yet neither is Morgoth or Sauron. They both begin from good, for Evil cannot create. And so, even Morgoth himself was not always Morgoth, yet was Melkor, a certain Valar. 
It was not as if Melkor began as always Evil. He fell to darkness, as did Feanor, as I would argue.

The oath of Feanor makes it completely evident that he was greatly misled, and that as he fell to darkness, his power and passions were consumed by darkness. To me, Feanor has always really seemed a character who acts on passion, and is both forceful and genuine. Feanor gave 100% to everything that he did, and he was extremely successful, bold, and strong both physically and in fea and spirit. Sadly, his strength for goodness and Light was overcome by darkness, and so he fell from Light, and stood no more as right among the Elves.

Yes. He is an interesting character. Perhaps one of the most intriguing in all Lore and legend. I don't argue with this, and I don't even say that your opinions of him are not right. I would not label him as the "bad Elf that made the Silmarils" but "the Elf that succumbed to darkness, and yet created the great Silmarils before his fall". I think it's unfair to label him as Evil becuase of or by the Silmarils, because though his oath was bad, I don't actually think that the Silmarils were. 
'
Of course, it is a bit unjust to label Feanor as any simple title however, be it a bad Elf or a good one, as there are too many complexities to his character that you cannot rightly just condense everything about him into a one-dimensional title, as with all characters.


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