# Did Tolkien inspire you for reading?



## Alice (Apr 19, 2020)

I wonder, if Tolkien inspired some of you for reading books, which somehow are related to his works? For example, for fantasy genre or, which is more related, for reading myths or fairy tales that Tolkien used for his world or just liked.
I was inspired for reading Thomas Malory Arthurian novel, The Wind in the Willows (now one of my favourites), Northern myths, The princess and the Goblin and some medieval poetry. And some fantasy books, of course.

I'm sorry if such thread has already been on this forum


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## Olorgando (Apr 19, 2020)

It's pretty much limited to Beowulf, as far as sources of inspiration for JRRT are concerned. From an early 1990s vacation in Ireland, I brought back two modern reprints of books from the 19th century about Celtic respectively Irish myths, legends and folklore, but that was not a source as per JRRT's own statements. I have a couple of anthologies in honor of JRRT, with mostly shorter stories by a wide variety of authors, but none of these inspired me to delve more deeply into other works by these authors. Fantasy is pretty much limited to JRRT, then a bit of science fiction. But there has just been so much interesting non-fiction stuff that I never felt the need for a change of pace with fiction.


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## Alice (Apr 19, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> It's pretty much limited to Beowulf, as far as sources of inspiration for JRRT are concerned. From an early 1990s vacation in Ireland, I brought back two modern reprints of books from the 19th century about Celtic respectively Irish myths, legends and folklore, but that was not a source as per JRRT's own statements. I have a couple of anthologies in honor of JRRT, with mostly shorter stories by a wide variety of authors, but none of these inspired me to delve more deeply into other works by these authors. Fantasy is pretty much limited to JRRT, then a bit of science fiction. But there has just been so much interesting non-fiction stuff that I never felt the need for a change of pace with fiction.



Maybe he didn't claim that some books were inspiration for him, but he definitely mentioned some which he liked. For example, The Wind in The Willows was almost perfect for him. And there are some similarities between it and The Hobbit, so I'm almost sure that it was a bit inspirational for him. Also he used some mythological races (or creatures?) like dwarves or elves, but re-imagened them, so Northern myths, I suppose, can be counted as an inspirational source


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## Olorgando (Apr 20, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> ... so Northern myths, I suppose, can be counted as an inspirational source.


As JRRT has often stated, and often been quoted: The two Eddas, Sagas like the "Völsunga saga" (of which JRRT composed a "new version" edited and published by Christopher T. in 2009 under the title "The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún" - *not *a translation of the original, mind you!), the Finnish Kalevala, especially "The Story of Kullervo", JRRT's adaptation of which was edited and published by noted JRRT scholar Verlyn Flieger under that title in 2015 … 
But what I have read of this body of work are almost entirely JRRT's *reworkings* of such material, not say translations of the originals by other authors. To these reworkings I can add an incomplete go at the Arthurian material (ed. Christopher T. 2013), a Breton _lai_ (ed. Flieger 2016), and when it comes to it JRRT's prose translation of "Beowulf" (ed. Christopher T. 2014). Of the last-mentioned, I have both a German translation and an English one, perhaps with too modern a wording, by Seamus Heaney.
An interesting book on possible sources or inspirations for JRRT is Verlyn Flieger's 1997 "A Question of Time", in which she digs out some highly surprising sources, not the least so by being by 20th-century authors, and not exactly "high literature" ones at that.


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## Alice (Apr 20, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> As JRRT has often stated, and often been quoted: The two Eddas, Sagas like the "Völsunga saga" (of which JRRT composed a "new version" edited and published by Christopher T. in 2009 under the title "The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún" - *not *a translation of the original, mind you!), the Finnish Kalevala, especially "The Story of Kullervo", JRRT's adaptation of which was edited and published by noted JRRT scholar Verlyn Flieger under that title in 2015 …
> But what I have read of this body of work are almost entirely JRRT's *reworkings* of such material, not say translations of the originals by other authors. To these reworkings I can add an incomplete go at the Arthurian material (ed. Christopher T. 2013), a Breton _lai_ (ed. Flieger 2016), and when it comes to it JRRT's prose translation of "Beowulf" (ed. Christopher T. 2014). Of the last-mentioned, I have both a German translation and an English one, perhaps with too modern a wording, by Seamus Heaney.
> An interesting book on possible sources or inspirations for JRRT is Verlyn Flieger's 1997 "A Question of Time", in which she digs out some highly surprising sources, not the least so by being by 20th-century authors, and not exactly "high literature" ones at that.



Wow. And do you like his version of Beowulf? I look forward to read it, but always pick the another works. I've read his Story of Kullervo (the word 'Kalevala' is almost an anagram of my real surname, that's a bit funny), Lay of Aotrou and Itroun and gonna read his Arthur (love Malory's epic) and Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun.

Oh, I need to check this book about the sources, though I've already read one about what Tolkien thought about other authors (by Alekseev, I forgot the name)


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## Barliman (Apr 21, 2020)

In spite of Squint Eyed Southerner's concern he expressed to our mom when I was little, that I didn't read much, I was already a voracious reader by time I read the books in the 8th grade.
So that would be a no.
However, he did inspire me to want to open a small village pub and inn. Unfortunately not enough to actually do it.


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## Alice (Apr 21, 2020)

Barliman said:


> In spite of Squint Eyed Southerner's concern he expressed to our mom when I was little, that I didn't read much, I was already a voracious reader by time I read the books in the 8th grade.
> So that would be a no.
> However, he did inspire me to want to open a small village pub and inn. Unfortunately not enough to actually do it.



Nice idea! I would like to visit a pub like Green Dragon or something like that.

I read a lot even before Tolkien, but he changed my opinion about the entire literature


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## Erestor Arcamen (Apr 21, 2020)

Tolkien really was my first fantasy series. Before that, I read a lot of sci-fi (still do) and historical fiction. I definitely read a ton of fantasy and sci-fi now with Brandon Sanderson being the author I read the most I think.


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## Starbrow (Apr 21, 2020)

I read a wider variety of fiction before I got hooked on LOTR. Now I read mostly fantasy books.


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## Olorgando (Apr 22, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> ... And do you like his version of Beowulf? I look forward to read it, but always pick the another works. ...


Yes I did, very much. But besides that "Beowulf" translation into a prose epic, it also has (at the end) a "folk-tale" version called "Sellic Spell", which seems to have something of a "Kaspar Hauser" or "Mowgli in the Jungle Book" aspect to it. And then, the introductory notes to the commentary, and the commentary itself, run to over 245 pages, while the "Beowulf" proper is all of just over 90 pages ,,,


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## 1stvermont (May 7, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> I wonder, if Tolkien inspired some of you for reading books, which somehow are related to his works? For example, for fantasy genre or, which is more related, for reading myths or fairy tales that Tolkien used for his world or just liked.
> I was inspired for reading Thomas Malory Arthurian novel, The Wind in the Willows (now one of my favourites), Northern myths, The princess and the Goblin and some medieval poetry. And some fantasy books, of course.
> 
> I'm sorry if such thread has already been on this forum




He inspired me to read Lewis, Narnia, and to do an in-depth study of the historical medieval time period. As well as Catholicism.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 7, 2020)

Barliman said:


> In spite of Squint Eyed Southerner's concern he expressed to our mom when I was little, that I didn't read much,


Hey, I don't remember that! Are you sure you didn't imagine it?


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## Alice (May 8, 2020)

1stvermont said:


> He inspired me to read Lewis, Narnia, and to do an in-depth study of the historical medieval time period. As well as Catholicism.



Wow! I love medieval history too. Not only because of Tolkien, but he helped me not to give up studying this period


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## 1stvermont (May 8, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> Wow! I love medieval history too. Not only because of Tolkien, but he helped me not to give up studying this period



He helped give me a love of the time period. I am studying it now still.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 8, 2020)

My answer to your question is yes.

I was a teenager when the paperbacks came out (yes, I'm old! ), and began gobbling up what fantasy was available -- the Lancer Conan paperbacks come to mind.

But there wasn't really much fantasy around at the time -- it hadn't become a "genre", and readers were few. The case of Andre Norton is instructive in this regard: she wrote some fantasy stories very early -- the 40's and early 50's -- but being informed there was little market for it, turned to Science Fiction. Even the first few of her famous Witch World series from the early 60's were cast as SF.

All this changed with the paperback publication of Tolkien, who is rightly credited with the creation, more or less, of fantasy as a separate _genre, _with a distinct market. Readers of Tolkien were, like me, looking for more stuff like his, and we received a real boon when Lin Carter signed with Ballantine Books, to locate and edit a new series: the Adult Fantasy books. It was a great series, while it lasted, and introduced young fantasy fans like me to works old and new. There's a short Wiki page here:









Ballantine Adult Fantasy series - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





But if you find it of interest, there are a number of other articles on line, some of which list all books in the series, and show the glorious cover art.


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## Rivendell_librarian (May 8, 2020)

Reading Tolkien and being part of this forum has inspired to start reading books about Tolkien and his works.
I have bought a few books on what you might call northern myths (Arthurian, Icelandic, Germanic) which I hope to read fairly soon. I have read Beowulf and enjoyed it.
Also the Chronicles of Narnia.


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## Alice (May 9, 2020)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> My answer to your question is yes.
> 
> I was a teenager when the paperbacks came out (yes, I'm old! ), and began gobbling up what fantasy was available -- the Lancer Conan paperbacks come to mind.
> 
> ...



Wow, there were fantasy books in the mid twentieth century! Even before Tolkien's LOTR (I heard that). In USSR they appeared as a separate genre only in 80's-90's because of Tolkien's growing popularity. Before that were only fairy tales or SF, which children still are obliged to study in Primary school (poorly written, to my humble opinion).

And the cover art is beautiful, I agree



Rivendell_librarian said:


> Reading Tolkien and being part of this forum has inspired to start reading books about Tolkien and his works.
> I have bought a few books on what you might call northern myths (Arthurian, Icelandic, Germanic) which I hope to read fairly soon. I have read Beowulf and enjoyed it.
> Also the Chronicles of Narnia.



Oh, reading books about Tolkien and books which he liked (Northern myths as well) can truly add more depth to his own works (I view LOTR differently since reading so many books about it)


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## 1stvermont (May 9, 2020)

Rivendell_librarian said:


> Reading Tolkien and being part of this forum has inspired to start reading books about Tolkien and his works.
> I have bought a few books on what you might call northern myths (Arthurian, Icelandic, Germanic) which I hope to read fairly soon. I have read Beowulf and enjoyed it.
> Also the Chronicles of Narnia.



I forgot Beowulf and King Arthur. I have not yet read my kids have but they are on my list.


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## Alice (May 9, 2020)

1stvermont said:


> I forgot Beowulf and King Arthur. I have not yet read my kids have but they are on my list.


The same with Beowulf. I know the plot, but always forget to read Tolkien's version


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## Olorgando (May 10, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> The same with Beowulf. I know the plot, but always forget to read Tolkien's version


I have (and have read) Christopher's 2014 edited edition. By all means read it. JRRT is not seen as one of the preeminent Beowulf authorities of all time without a reason!


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## Alice (May 10, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> I have (and have read) Christopher's 2014 edited edition. By all means read it. JRRT is not seen as one of the preeminent Beowulf authorities of all time without a reason!



Oh, I definitely will do that. I guess, it is not translated into Russian so maybe someday I will try to translate it


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## Olorgando (May 11, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> Oh, I definitely will do that. I guess, it is not translated into Russian so maybe someday I will try to translate it


😳
I just took a quick look at JRRT's "Beowulf" - this is *not* modern English! We're talking Silmarillion territory here, stuff of which (I have "Children of Húrin" in both English and German) can be quite difficult to translate from the original into the still closely related languages like German. And the "cast of characters" is north German / southern Scandinavian aristocracy of the fifth century, so in pre-Christian times; titles are foggy even to us by now ...


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## Alice (May 11, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> 😳
> I just took a quick look at JRRT's "Beowulf" - this is *not* modern English! We're talking Silmarillion territory here, stuff of which (I have "Children of Húrin" in both English and German) can be quite difficult to translate from the original into the still closely related languages like German. And the "cast of characters" is north German / southern Scandinavian aristocracy of the fifth century, so in pre-Christian times; titles are foggy even tp us by now ...



So it is untranslatable like others Tolkien's works on Mythology I have "Children of Húrin" in Russian, but haven't read this book in it, I usually read the original versions. Just not to spoil first impression. But there are many people who can't do that so there is a need for translators (I wish to be a one someday)


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 11, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> I wish to be a one someday


Good goal!

You go, girl! And don't let anything -- or anyone -- stop you.


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## Olorgando (May 11, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> So it is untranslatable like others Tolkien's works on Mythology I have "Children of Húrin" in Russian, but haven't read this book in it, I usually read the original versions. Just not to spoil first impression. But there are many people who can't do that so there is a need for translators (I wish to be a one someday)


Not *un*translatable. I have the same problem of not being able to read things in the original with Russian, French, Italian, Spanish. Portuguese, Dutch, Polish, Czech etc. etc. etc. authors. But some things simply do get lost in translation. Hey, I probably miss lots of things like inside jokes by Bavarian, Swabian, Saxonian, Franconian, Rhineland, Hamburg, Berlin etc. writers!


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## Alice (May 11, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> Not *un*translatable. I have the same problem of not being able to read things in the original with Russian, French, Italian, Spanish. Portuguese, Dutch, Polish, Czech etc. etc. etc. authors. But some things simply do get lost in translation. Hey, I probably miss lots of things like inside jokes by Bavarian, Swabian, Saxonian, Franconian, Rhineland, Hamburg, Berlin etc. writers!



I don't know is it good or not, but Russian doesn't differ much in its regions. I live in the Southern Russia and don't see any trouble with writer's language that can be from North or from the East regions (I don't know how to translate the word "oblast" or "krai" which means a part of the country). I wish I could continue to study German and it would be enough for me 



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Good goal!
> 
> You go, girl! And don't let anything -- or anyone -- stop you.



Thank you I wish I wouldn't become a "nadmozg" translator who takes everything literally and so appears a very ridiculous translation


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 11, 2020)

Yes, I notice that many Kpop videos have "literal-minded" English translations, probably because they are being translated by native Korean speakers into English. The cardinal rule for translators is: translate _into, _not _from, _your native language.

The subtitles on the one I posted above seem pretty good, though.


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## Elthir (May 11, 2020)

I was reading Howard's Conan and comics (mostly Marvel) before I was introduced to_ The Lord of the Rings. _I also dimly recall reading a fictional story about Vikings (several times?) before, or at least during, my first read of _The Lord of the Rings_ -- but can't remember the title! Anyway, Tolkien _surely_ inspired me and ultimately got me interested in writing systems, and languages too -- not that I can speak any, including English.

That said, it was Loona who inspired me not to accept the fate of the🌛


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 11, 2020)

And to 🔥 yourself.


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## Alice (May 11, 2020)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Yes, I notice that many Kpop videos have "literal-minded" English translations, probably because they are being translated by native Korean speakers into English. The cardinal rule for translators is: translate _into, _not _from, _your native language.
> 
> The subtitles on the one I posted above seem pretty good, though.



I don't deny that the subtitles are good. I recently watched "Treasure Island" (Soviet animated version, which is a masterpiece) with English subtitles and was amazed that translation was so good and almost as funny as the original dub. 
Translate into... I've read Nikolai Gogol's stories which were translated into English by russian translator. It was an interesting experience.

And it is so nice that you like kpop.😊


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 11, 2020)

Yes-- I may be old, but I'm not dead! You can find more of my favorites -- and others -- in both of our Music threads.

I'm going to look for that Treasure Island! I hope it's on youtube.


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## Alice (May 11, 2020)

Yeah, I've seen it on YouTube - Treasure Island 1988, by kievnauchfilm (studio). They also made my favourite animated film of all time - Alice in Wonderland (1981). Also have seen it on YouTube (with eng sub). It is only my opinion but USSR had best animated films and I feel so sad because the most of them aren't popular even in Russia. I wish I could translate some of them into English (but it would be a translation from, not into)
If you watch this, please tell me


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 11, 2020)

Thank you! I'm going to look.


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## Olorgando (May 11, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> I don't know is it good or not, but Russian doesn't differ much in its regions. I live in the Southern Russia and don't see any trouble with writer's language that can be from North or from the East regions (I don't know how to translate the word "oblast" or "krai" which means a part of the country). I wish I could continue to study German and it would be enough for me


I've read the term "oblast", and Wikipedia offers some help. But that's another thing that might not translate well: subdivisions of countries.
The term "county" is common at least in England, Ireland and the US. I know about the US version, and translating it into German, as it is the level directly below state, it would be the German term "Bezirk". But then New York City, where I lived for three years, has five boroughs: Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens (where I lived; the latter five years in Nassau County on Long Island, bordering on Queens to the east), the Bronx, and Staten Island. Now each of these boroughs is also a county of its own: New York County, King's County, Queens County, Bronx County and Richmond County (until 1898, New York City consisted only of Manhattan, the other four boroughs / counties were only added then). None of this in Germany, a "Bezirk" is always much larger than any city in it; and we also have three city-states: Berlin, Bremen and Hamburg ...


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## Alice (May 11, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> I've read the term "oblast", and Wikipedia offers some help. But that's another thing that might not translate well: subdivisions of countries.
> The term "county" is common at least in England, Ireland and the US. I know about the US version, and translating it into German, as it is the level directly below state, it would be the German term "Bezirk". But then New York City, where I lived for three years, has five boroughs: Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens (where I lived; the latter five years in Nassau County on Long Island, bordering on Queens to the east), the Bronx, and Staten Island. Now each of these boroughs is also a county of its own: New York County, King's County, Queens County, Bronx County and Richmond County (until 1898, New York City consisted only of Manhattan, the other four boroughs / counties were only added then). None of this in Germany, a "Bezirk" is always much larger than any city in it; and we also have three city-states: Berlin, Bremen and Hamburg ...



Manhattan and other parts of the New York - it is a part of the city, so in Russian there is another term "rayon" (I dunno how to transliterate "район" and not to make it sound funny).
Wow, I've read before about Germany's parts (but in the twentieth century). It is interesting to study of which some countries consist, because my country has very specific regions due to its history


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## Olorgando (May 12, 2020)

Well, even the Shire changed from 1601 Third Age, when the Fallohide brothers Marcho and Blanco (read: the "Anglo-Saxons" Hengist and Horsa) led a bunch of Hobbits from the east across the Bridge of Stonebows (later Brandywine Bridge) into the then to become the Shire. In TA 2340 (SR 740) the previously Oldbucks, up to then being the Shire family whose head was the Thain, moved back east across the Brandywine to inhabit what was to become Buckland between the River and the Old Forest, becoming the Brandybucks. The Thainship at that point shifted to the Tooks. In the year 1453 SR (Fourth Age 32) King Elessar, Aragorn II also formerly known as Strider, granted the Westmarch, stretching from the earlier West-farthing west to the Tower Hills, to the Shire.
That was expansion. Nothing of the sort happened in Europe after about 1950 (our own age). Within country borders, though, things did get shifted. I remember reading about the Birmingham area in England that county or whatever borders nowadays are no longer identical with what they were in JRRT's youth. I also know that there were several in Germany post-WW II realignments, the earliest one in the late 1940s having to do with distributing regions previously belonging to the abolished state of Prussia, which the latter had grabbed during the latter 19th century (I have one local patriotic, from my Cologne ancestry, warm spot in my heart for the Prussians: they finally completed the Cologne Cathedral by 1880; building it started in 1248 …)
Much of this probably had to do with urbanization. If memory serves, the UK was the first country to cross the threshold of 50% urban population. Having to do with their being the vanguard of the "Industrial Revolution". But also with improvements in the ability to transport previously perishable goods by ship across much longer distances, and never mind more hardy stuff like grain. England basically trashed its agricultural sector during the later 19th century, leading the UK to be so very vulnerable to Germany's submarine warfare in both World Wars.
Sound familiar?


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## Aldarion (May 13, 2020)

Tolkien inspired me to start worldbuilding.


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## Alice (May 13, 2020)

Aldarion said:


> Tolkien inspired me to start worldbuilding.



Worldbuilding? Do you write someting?


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## Aldarion (May 14, 2020)

Alice Alice said:


> Worldbuilding? Do you write someting?



Not yet. Most of the things I made during school I wasn't happy about because they were too derivative of Tolkien (essentially, I did what Christopher Paolini did before he actually did it). Then I took a loong break, and now I am still working on the world that stories will be set in. So basically, I am planning to write fantasy - likely military fantasy - but I am still laying down the foundations, so to speak.

You can find some of my preliminary work here:


https://mythicscribes.com/community/search/17140712/




https://www.writingforums.org/search/60149778/


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## Ealdwyn (May 28, 2020)

I read LotR when I was about 12. Prior to that I remember reading children's fantasy - I remember particularly the Alan Garner books, and I can see how Tolkien would have appealed to me after reading those, as Garner drew heavily on history and folklore in his books - but Tolkien was the first high fantasy that I read. 

I read lots of mainstream fantasy through my teens and into my 20s. I sort of drifted away from the genre after that, with the exception of Tolkien, which I've returned to again and again, and also Terry Pratchett (but I've always considered the Discworld novels to be more satire than anything else). The past few years I've mostly read non-fiction, mainly 18th century social and maritime history. Tolkien is pretty much the only fantasy I read these days.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 28, 2020)

Oh, Garner! I read and greatly enjoyed "The Weirdstone of Brisingamen", though not discovering it until age 17, in the Ace edition, where it was marketed, not as a "children's book" but as a straight fantasy.

Andre Norton, whose blurb appears on the cover, was published by them in the same manner, as opposed to her hardback publishers, who also took the "children's author" marketing approach.


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## Ealdwyn (May 28, 2020)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Oh, Garner! I read and greatly enjoyed "The Weirdstone of Brisingamen", though not discoveries it until age 17, in the Ace edition, where it was marketed, not as a "children's book" but as a straight fantasy.



That's interesting. I've always thought of them as children's books. I'm actually tempted to buy a copy of WoB and see how it stands up. 

I've just had a look at Garner's wiki page, and apparently he never explicity wrote for children:
_Although Garner's early work is often labelled as "children's literature", Garner himself rejects such a description, informing one interviewer that "I certainly have never written for children" but that instead he has always written purely for himself. Neil Philip, in his critical study of Garner's work (1981), commented that up till that point, "Everything Alan Garner has published has been published for children", although he went on to relate that "It may be that Garner's is a case" where the division between children's and adult's literature is "meaningless" and that his fiction is instead "enjoyed by a type of person, no matter what their age." _


It's also interesting to note that Garner was first published as a result of the success of LotR, as the publisher Collins was specifically looking for fantasy novels at that time.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 28, 2020)

Yes, I imagine the Ace printing, along with other fantasy titles published by them, was stimulated by the phenomenal sales of the LOTR paperbacks.


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## Akhôrahil (Sep 14, 2020)

Aldarion said:


> Tolkien inspired me to start worldbuilding.


If you are interested in world building and in Gondor, I recommend reading the modules and maps that were created by Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) for Middle-earth Role Playing (MERP). I especially recommend the modules Southern Gondor - The Land and Southern Gondor - The People and the Northwestern Middle-earth map set. Scanned copies can be found as PDF files on the internet. There is a trove of material from different role playing games on the internet. Most of the authors who created the MERP modules have studied relevant fields at university. If you are interested in fantasy that was inspired by the Byzantine Empire from an author with a doctorate degree in Byzantine history, I recommend you to read Harry Turtledove's books that are set in Videssos (e.g. The Misplaced Legion, An Emperor for the Legion, The Legion of Videssos, Swords of the Legion).


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## Olorgando (Sep 14, 2020)

Akhôrahil said:


> ... If you are interested in fantasy that was inspired by the Byzantine Empire from an author with a doctorate degree in Byzantine history, I recommend you to read Harry Turtledove's books that are set in Videssos ...


"Videssos" shrilled a bell, and I found out why quickly. In 1992, celebrating JRRT's 100 birthday, there were probably quite a few publications trying to cash in on this (though most likely only ripples compared to the merchandising cash-in eruptions for the films as of 2001 respectively 2012). The 1992 Pan Books (paperback) collection that I own, titled "After the King", edited by Martin H. Greenberg, includes in its 19 contributions only a single name that even now I recognize, Terry Pratchett, whose "Troll Bridge" is a hilarious riot. But there it is, Harry Turtledove's "Decoy Duck", with a Videssian "missionary" expedition to the "Haloga", thinly if at all disguised as Scandinavian heathen Vikings, most likely in Norway. The "Decoy Duck" of the title is a Haloga captured as a child and enslaved, who became a fervent convert and even "priest" to the Videssian creed, and was thus sent on this missionary enterprise. At least this short story, if Videssos is supposed to be modelled on Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Christianity, casts a highly unfavorable light on it.


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## Akhôrahil (Sep 16, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> "Videssos" shrilled a bell, and I found out why quickly. In 1992, celebrating JRRT's 100 birthday, there were probably quite a few publications trying to cash in on this (though most likely only ripples compared to the merchandising cash-in eruptions for the films as of 2001 respectively 2012). The 1992 Pan Books (paperback) collection that I own, titled "After the King", edited by Martin H. Greenberg, includes in its 19 contributions only a single name that even now I recognize, Terry Pratchett, whose "Troll Bridge" is a hilarious riot. But there it is, Harry Turtledove's "Decoy Duck", with a Videssian "missionary" expedition to the "Haloga", thinly if at all disguised as Scandinavian heathen Vikings, most likely in Norway. The "Decoy Duck" of the title is a Haloga captured as a child and enslaved, who became a fervent convert and even "priest" to the Videssian creed, and was thus sent on this missionary enterprise. At least this short story, if Videssos is supposed to be modelled on Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Christianity, casts a highly unfavorable light on it.


The Misplaced Legion, An Emperor for the Legion, The Legion of Videssos, Swords of the Legion were all already published in 1987 way before JRRT's 100th birthday. I also recommend the Middle Earth Role Playing books and maps and the Other Hands and Other Minds magazine (their names are inspired by a passage from a letter of J.R.R. Tolkien). You can find them by doing a google search for trove MERP. One of the editors of many MERP books and of the Other Hands magazine was Chris Seeman, who had an M.A. in Biblical Studies with Hellenistic History (Seleucid Near East, Roman imperialism) as one of his areas of expertise at that time (he now has a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Religions and is an associate professor at Walsh University). I liked the creative effort that went into the MERP books and maps and into some articles in Other Hands and Other Minds.








Downloads


Download the latest issues of Other Hands and Other Minds magazines, and various other downloads.




www.otherminds.net


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## Olorgando (Sep 16, 2020)

"Role Playing" is a term that drove me away from Personal Computer games about from the late 1990s, even before the online stuff became prominent. I started playing some games seriously after I got my Intel 486 DX 50 about 1993, but that was Lucas Arts "X-Wing" and "Tie Fighter", derived from Star Wars; a helicopter simulation named "Comanche", named after a "stealth" attack chopper that never made it beyond a full-scale mockup for the US Army (and perhaps Marines); I was a big fan of the "Lemmings" series, and Sierra's "Quest" series, there most of all the "Leisure Suit Larry" one (though I was able to play the very first "King's Quest" on my very first PC, an IBM 286 clone). My third PC was from 1997, the first one with an AMD processor, an early Pentium lookalike, which I had stocked with (for the time) game-compatible components - and upgraded with a secondary graphics card the odd year later. But what was becoming favored in the games market (then starting to go to online) started getting "meh" reactions from me rapidly. Things have *definitely* not improved in the last 20 years ...


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## Deleted member 31872 (Oct 15, 2020)

I have been reading fantasy for ages. Terry Brooks, Elizabeth Moon, Katherine Kurtz , Anne McCaffrey, Rick Riordan and Christopher Paolini, and many others


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## Culaeron (Oct 15, 2020)

Tolkien definitely inspired my choice of books throughout my younger days, and even the books I read now owe a large part of my interest in them to the imagination he dredged up from the deeps of my mind. Sigurd has his little corner of a bookshelf, almost rubbing elbows with Beowulf and the Green Knight. The latter led me to Mallory, and then from there I dug deeper into the fantasy worlds Tolkien had first opened the door to. The early Shannara books, Thieves World, the Deryni, and a host of others down through the decades. Even recently, I doubt I’d have read the Name of the Wind, or trudged along with the troops of the Black Company, or the Iron Elves if I had never been handed that first battered trilogy to read.


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## Deleted member 31872 (Oct 18, 2020)

I belonged to Fantasy/Scifi book club in Clearlake Texas who introduced me to Terry Brooks and nd Katherine Kurtz. I used to have another complete series of books, but there were too graphic. They gave me nightmares


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## cart (Jul 21, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> I have (and have read) Christopher's 2014 edited edition. By all means read it. JRRT is not seen as one of the preeminent Beowulf authorities of all time without a reason!


To answer the question of the thread.. no. After I read the LoTR and then a few books of HoME way back when I was a kid and endlessly going from page to page in the "the complete guide to middle earth" in 5-6th grade or so. I shortly after received my 1st copy of Plato's complete works which I read the entirety of it and then moved on to other philosophical writings and companion pieces and then into non technical books on quantum mechanics/physics, astronomy and then I'd say non-fiction dominated both all my reading and the vast majority of the books I still own till this day. Other than some books and poetry for honor's courses at uni I didn't read any fiction at all. (I only read these as cliff notes wouldn't get me by like they would in high school.. though they quite nearly did.) If we aren't strictly speaking about books.. I did read ALOT of manga and some comics as I had an early introduction to japanese cartoons and comics (as i called them) in the late 90s which was a pretty good time to get into the stuff. the Berserk manga has a larger place in my heart than likely any work of fiction will ever have a chance to having been reading it over and over for over 15 years now (RIP Miura.)

Though I have read Beowulf but I had considered it an academic endeavor and felt a learned person should read many epics that I did wind up reading if only for academic reasons.. I think I told myself back then to be "more well rounded" or something silly.

But my question to you @Olorgando I almost certainly read a 5$ version I picked up by chance or more likely found it in the Penguin Classics (Penguin published many many of the philosophy books I read that weren't complete works and so I trusted them to an extent.)

though I remember having a very troubling time "sticking with it" as archaic as it felt and often stumbling into words that not even online dictionaries had defined as "English" anymore... Is the Tolkien iteration... enjoyable to read? Or perhaps easier to follow? I haven't a clue as to who translated the version I read or when.. but I do know there are MANY MANY translations and was entirely unaware Tolkien had involved himself with the tale.

Always appreciate your thoughtful insights and will take your word for it on this one.


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## Olorgando (Jul 21, 2022)

cart said:


> ... but I do know there are MANY MANY translations and was entirely unaware Tolkien had involved himself with the tale. ...


This part had me quoting John McEnroe's (in-)famous "You cannot be serious!" But I keep having to remind myself that not everybody has done as much background reading, he're we'd be in the territory of Tom Shippey's books - Shippey was a philologist himself.
Professionally, JRRT probably dealt with Beowulf ceaselessly in his entire academic career, first as reader, and then professor (chair-holder) in Leeds, and his 34 years as a chair holder (two of them in succession) at Oxford.
While Christopher finally published it as editor in 2014, JRRT's prose translation stems from 1920-26.
I'll give you the table of contents of the 2014 book:



You'll note that the prose translation is less than 100 pages long, while commentary closer to 250, and the additional material about 70. So if you're only looking for a readable translation, I guess Christopher's book would be overkill.
As to the language, we're definitely dealing with Silmarillion plus, so definitely archaic. But just perhaps JRRT had a better command of the variants of the English for the last 1,200 or so years than most translators. I do not remember stumbling across any words whose meaning totally eluded me but then I'd plowed through all of Christopher's HoMe by then ...


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 21, 2022)

Tolkien has inspired me to read, but his works remain my favorite always, and nothing could compare in my mind. If it is between reading most any work, or Tolkien's works, I always choose Tolkien.


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## cart (Jul 21, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> This part had me quoting John McEnroe's (in-)famous "You cannot be serious!" But I keep having to remind myself that not everybody has done as much background reading, he're we'd be in the territory of Tom Shippey's books - Shippey was a philologist himself.
> Professionally, JRRT probably dealt with Beowulf ceaselessly in his entire academic career, first as reader, and then professor (chair-holder) in Leeds, and his 34 years as a chair holder (two of them in succession) at Oxford.
> While Christopher finally published it as editor in 2014, JRRT's prose translation stems from 1920-26.
> I'll give you the table of contents of the 2014 book:
> ...


Well im plowing through HoME as we speak (and read 3-4 of the books in 6th/7th grade) so I'll take this to mean you think the Tolkien translation is well not only accurate (i imagine it is the most representative) but I suppose just having read so many thousands of words and pages already he had inked will likely make the read easier by itself in maybe some ways that are harder to express clearly. though I will say the Silmarillion or really nothing i've ever read came close to my experience as it was with Beowulf. And now that I have thought about this some more, I actually think I read a rather old translation (like maybe it was translated in the times before or around the discovery of North America. I seem to have some memory of thinking "Well this is probably for the best to read one of the earliest translations.. as it is likely closest to the truth of the matter." or something like that.. so it's perhaps no wonder I was lost reading a book intended for the learned people of the 1200s or whatever age it was translated. But I do keenly seem to remember having that want..

So with that out of the way (and quite frankly with 4 new books just delivered today) perhaps in the fall I'll get to Beowulf in a form where I was actually the intended audience. I'm dumb and stupid in the same ways i find often.


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## Ent (Sep 14, 2022)

Hum. Here's one I haven't written on yet. (GASP...!!) Almost unconscionable.

Did Tolkien inspire me for reading: yes.
Did Tolkien inspire me for more than reading: yes.
Did it take decades for me to get back to Tolkien: yes.
Did his inspiration however, bleed over into many other pursuits and applications throughout those decades though: yes.

The thread being presented in the past tense, I'll address the present and future as well.
Does Tolkien still inspire me in multiple ways, and will he continue to do so? Yes.

So. There you have it.


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## Eljorahir (Sep 14, 2022)

The thread question has me thinking. My shelves are full of science fiction books. I also have some literature classics and some political fiction (Orwell, Bradbury, Vonnegut, etc.). I'm not sure I've ever read anything other than Tolkien in the fantasy genre. Let me know if anyone has a recommendation...their favorite fantasy novel that's not Tolkien.


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## Starbrow (Sep 14, 2022)

Other fantasy series I recommend:
The Earthsea series from Ursula K. Leguin
The Winter of the World series from Michael Scott Rohan.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 15, 2022)

You might consider some "classic" fantasy, such as Tolkien's contemporary Lord Dunsany; I'm pretty sure Tolkien read him. I talked a bit about him here:

Post in thread 'What book are you reading right now?' https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/what-book-are-you-reading-right-now.10249/post-549739

Another he read, and knew, was E.R.Eddison. I have to say I've never been able to get very far into his stuff, despite several attempts., but Tolkien apparently appreciated him.

And of course there's William Morris, the 19th century pioneer of fantasy.

And George MacDonald, whom he also read.


There has definitely been worthy fantasy writing post-Tolkien, but his popularity in the 60s led to an explosion of copycats and imitators, many of mediocre quality., making it difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 15, 2022)

Tolkien inspired me to read about Greek mythology. 😂


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## Ent (Sep 15, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> Let me know if anyone has a recommendation



I rarely hear anyone mentioning it, but I enjoyed Terry Brooks' Shannara series quite a bit. It builds another rather lengthy 'history' spanning many generations (though not 'ages') throughout the series. Brooks also writes well, but it's not the same 'class' of writing as Tolkien... but few are.

Many like Stephen Donaldson's "Thomas Covenant" series... I read some of it, and while a lot of it is fun, I personally could not tolerate Thomas Covenant himself so I finally just quit.


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## Ugluk (Sep 23, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> The thread question has me thinking. My shelves are full of science fiction books. I also have some literature classics and some political fiction (Orwell, Bradbury, Vonnegut, etc.). I'm not sure I've ever read anything other than Tolkien in the fantasy genre. Let me know if anyone has a recommendation...their favorite fantasy novel that's not Tolkien.



Tolkien's friend Lewis's _Chronicles of Narnia _is beautiful, and suitable for all ages.

For something outside the "normal" quasi-medieval fantasy genre I can recommend.

Jasper Fforde's_ Thursday next_ books, starting with the Eyre Affair, about a parallel world where people can enter the books. Eight books - the first four are the best. Lots of wonderful literary allusions, great puns. https://www.amazon.com/Eyre-Affair-Thursday-Next-Novel/dp/0142001805/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14GHTHAYP3QLL

Marie Brennan's _Natural History of Dragons_, about a woman in a world of roughly 18th-early 19th century culture interested in Dragons. Non magical. Five books https://www.amazon.com/Natural-History-Dragons-Memoir-Memoirs/dp/0765375079

The _Harry Potter_ series is great.

All these books should be read in writing order.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 24, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> The thread question has me thinking. My shelves are full of science fiction books. I also have some literature classics and some political fiction (Orwell, Bradbury, Vonnegut, etc.). I'm not sure I've ever read anything other than Tolkien in the fantasy genre. Let me know if anyone has a recommendation...their favorite fantasy novel that's not Tolkien.


Sorry, but I have nothing for you! I am a Tolkien-fan wholeheartedly except for a reading of the Chronicles of Narnia and Space Trilogy!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 24, 2022)

I don't know that I have a "favorite" non-Tolkien fantasy -- something to think about. 

I can say that I enjoyed most of Raymond Feist's Midkemia series enough to reread a few of them. I can recommend it, with the following caveats:
1) the sheer number of them -- about 30 -- and the time-span involved, required a generous helping of dynastic fantasy * as the series continued.
2) A few of the one-off "filler" books show the cycle's RPG origins more than is good for them. 
3) Feist was clearly getting tired of the whole thing by the end of the series, many years later, to the point where, in the final Chaos War cycle, he even forgot what some of his characters were doing, and blew up one entire civilization, so he wouldn't have to talk about it anymore. 

Nevertheless, the earlier books are quite entertaining. This was the first one:

Worth a try, IMO.

* 


https://sf-encyclopedia.com/fe/dynastic_fantasy


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## Erestor Arcamen (Sep 24, 2022)

My favorite non-tolkien fantasy is Brandon Sanderson. He's written and is currently writing several series in the same overall universe. Eventually the plan seems to be all the characters from different parts coming together possibly but that's a long ways away. If you wanted to read him, I'd suggest the Mistborn series and then The Stormlight Archive, both are amazing sets of stories that he continues to work on and put out books for. Also, he generally is good to his fans, constantly proving updates and news on his progress.


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## Culaeron (Sep 28, 2022)

The Sword of Shannara was a favorite of mine when much younger. People have said Terry Brooks borrowed heavily from Lord of the Rings, and looking back I can see some of that. But still a good read overall. 

EA mentioned Brandon Sanderson. I wholeheartedly agree. The Mistborn trilogy and it’s follow up trilogy are fantastic. The author writes action and combat scenes with so much style, and so well visualized. The folks at Marvel couldn’t film action sequences in their movies as well as he describes his. Just my opinion. 

Scott Lynch has a series I enjoy about a thief named Locke Lamorra. The first one has an “Oceans Eleven in a fantasy quasi-Venice” feel. Each book stands alone, there are mentions of events from previous books, but each one stands on its own merits. The Lies of Locke Lamorra is the first one. Be aware, there is some foul language occasionally (Locke likes to talk smack, but it’s usually humorous rather than annoying)

You listed some polical titles in your own collection. To cross that with Fantasy, there’s always GRRM’s series. But it shall not be named here…..


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2022)

Why, is it banned here, and I didn't hear about it? 😄


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## Erestor Arcamen (Sep 28, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Why, is it banned here, and I didn't hear about it? 😄


Because he'll never finish it anyways, GRRRM that is


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2022)

So, it's "A Song of Ice, Fire, and . . .er, Something. . ."? 🤔


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## Erestor Arcamen (Sep 28, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> So, it's "A Song of Ice, Fire, and . . .er, Something. . ."? 🤔


Honestly, I think he saw how much a lot of people hated the end of Game of Thrones and has no idea how to end his book series so he keeps doing other stuff instead like being a part of Elden Ring's creation and writing other books. It's been 10+ years since the last book came out and there's supposedly two more to finish the series. He'll never finish it.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 28, 2022)

At least if you start with something, follow through ending it.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2022)

Valid point. Although we could say the same to Tolkien, TBH.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 28, 2022)

Tolkien died when he was working on them though... He didn't just 'put it off'...


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2022)

True. I guess I just regret that he spent so many of his last years chasing philosophical marshlights, instead of exercising his real gift, telling_ stories. _


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## Ent (Sep 28, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I just regret that he spent so many of his last years chasing philosophical marshlights


In reading what I've been able to so far regarding his life, though I know he had MANY calls on his time due to other professions (which many 'authors' don't need to contend with), it also seems like he spent a good deal of time almost 'finding excuses' not to be working on it. 

Now...rare is the bird that develops several languages etc. years before he/she begins to write their stuff... but that 'feels' like a double-edged sword to me.

Had he spent less time being miffed at his publishers and waiting to see what might happen if he just 'got down to it', we might be farther along. 

That said... I'm certainly thankful for where we are.


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## Olorgando (Sep 28, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Honestly, I think he saw how much a lot of people hated the end of Game of Thrones and has no idea how to end his book series so he keeps doing other stuff instead like being a part of Elden Ring's creation and writing other books. It's been 10+ years since the last book came out and there's supposedly two more to finish the series. He'll never finish it.


J.K. Rowling managed to keep her books ahead of the "movies" - but then she was dealing with the cinematic film industry.

I guess it's a warning to all authors:
"If you wanna have your books turned into a TV series, *make sure you're finished first!!!*"

Makes me think of RoP; JRRT never finished *that* part of his legendarium ... 😬


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## Ent (Sep 28, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> JRRT never finished *that* part of his legendarium


Sure he did. He stuffed a missing Silmaril up in a tree.


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## Olorgando (Sep 28, 2022)

The Enting said:


> Sure he did. He stuffed a missing Silmaril up in a tree.


The chances of my ever getting an Amazon Prime subscription just dropped from microscopic to electron microscopic ...


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