# Orc children?



## Edhel-dûr (Nov 25, 2002)

I have read this some times but i don´t find in the Hobbit the two quotes/references of the Orc children:

"...there were two apparent references to Orc children, but both were from The Hobbit, and therefore may be considered suspect..."

Can any of you look for this "two apparent references"?

Thank you very much XD


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## Maeglin (Nov 25, 2002)

One of them is in The Hobbit when Gollum says "we throttled a nice little squeaker earlier didn't we precious? Oh how he screamed." or something like that, I don't have my book next to me so I can't look it up, but thats one, I'll have to look for the other.


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## Lantarion (Nov 26, 2002)

I don't think that was a reference to an Orc-child though..
Wow, I had forgotten how much more cruel Gollum is in the Hobbit.


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## Gothmog (Nov 29, 2002)

The reference was to a orc-child. The quote is:


> No one would see him, no one would notice him, till he had his fingers on their throat. Only a few hours ago he had worn it, and caught a small goblin-imp. How it squeaked! He still had a bone or two left to gnaw, but he wanted something softer.


 from the Hobbit: Chapter 5: Riddles in the Dark.


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## Maeglin (Nov 29, 2002)

Thanks Gothmog!


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## Lantarion (Nov 30, 2002)

Er, but I don't think it proves that it was a child! 'Imp' is probably a reference to a small orc, not an orc-child. I think Tolkien would have said something more precise if the 'goblin-imp' had been an orc-child..


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## Edhel-dûr (Nov 30, 2002)

We know that Bolg is the son of Azog, isn´t it?

"Son" implies "children"? I thinks yes cause to become a son you must have to be a chil, don´t you think?

Greatings.


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## Gothmog (Nov 30, 2002)

Glorfindel1187 you are welcome.  

Lantarion:



> *imp* _n._ 1. a small devil.
> 2. a mischievous child.


 Since the quote from The Hobbit already states "a small goblin" the addition of "imp" suggests to me that Tolkien is using the second of the above definitions.

Using 'imp' to mean a 'small orc' would make the description read as "a small small goblin". Seems to me that a better reading would be 'a small goblin child' or 'a small orc child'.


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## Snaga (Dec 1, 2002)

That definitely falls into the category of an 'apparent reference' c.f. the original question.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 1, 2002)

No offense to a certain user by the name of Azog, or course!!!  

I hope I didn't post this twice.... if I did sorry!!!


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## Khamul (Dec 1, 2002)

The edit key is easy to use. 

I would guess that those orc children who were not eaten grew up in a loving and caring environment. *heavy sarcasm*

Seriously though, they were probably constantly beaten and worked until close to death. Im sure that their growth rate was very quick, and they were able to go to battle at a very young age. 

The battle in which Bolg was slain was in October1 III 2941. Azog was slain in III 2799, so they must have had a lifetime of at least 142 years, though I doubt many of them lived to be that old.


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## aragil (Dec 3, 2002)

I don't know it's as reputable of a source as the Hobbit, but there's a bit about Orclings and their childhood conditions here.

Sting- is your pic meant to read "LMmikeBO"? I'm afeard that the Azog-Bolg age was a detail that slipped Tolkien's mind in the writing, although there is a little bit of textual evidence that could possibly support it. Just before gutting eachother Shagrat and Gorbag reminisce about the 'good old times' before there were any big bosses around and the 'bad old times' of the great siege- the battle of the last alliance. These are probably references to the Second Age, and Gorbag and Shagrat speak of them with such familiarity that the case could be made that the two were alive then. This of course would agree immensely with the theory that Orcs came from Elves (a theory which I wholeheartedly support). If that were the case then we could look at the threads about Elf Children to answer our questions here!


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