# the emotion of hatred



## Saucy (Feb 2, 2004)

is it to rash to say u hate someone if u honestley feel that way?

i mean hate is such a mean word...


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## Aragorn21 (Feb 2, 2004)

Hate is a very strong word, be careful using it. Whether it's right to use the word or not, I believe, depends on the situation, or what the person you hate has done.


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## Sarde (Feb 3, 2004)

Hate is an emotion that should be altogether avoided. It is extremely self-destructive and does not accomplish anything (besides self-destruction or even the destruction of others).


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## Celebthôl (Feb 3, 2004)

But its still an emotion  
If we weren't supposed to exercise it, we wouldn't have it. Tho that doesnt mean we should use it at every opportunity, God no! But with some people you cant help but feel it, so why shun it? To surpress things is worse than to get them out into the open, even if it is hate.......


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## celebdraug (Feb 3, 2004)

Celebthôl said:


> To surpress things is worse than to get them out into the open, even if it is hate.......


 then you cause others pain to... and that a "NO NO" 
Its better to sort of talk about it gently rather than to burst out in rage, and the "someone" tyhat you hate has dont nothing to you and so why should you take your anger out on them?


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## Sarde (Feb 3, 2004)

Oh come on. To hate is a choice. You don't hate someone involuntarily. If you think that you do, you should read 'Your erroneous zones' by Dr. Wayne Dyer. It will free you from all self-destructive feelings. Hate, like regret, worrying and feeling guilty is something you choose. At least you can choose not to feel hate. You don't need to surpress it. Just don't feel it. Dislike is a different thing. You can't really help it if you don't like someone, and it's fine not to like someone, after all, you can't like everyone. But hate is something you cultivate.

Tell me what advantages you see in hating someone. Is it gonna get you any further in life? Is it gonna make you feel happy and fulfilled? Is the hated person gonna be any nicer because you hate them? Are you gonna be able to eliminate the hated person by hating them as much as you can?


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## celebdraug (Feb 3, 2004)

> To hate is a choice.


 um....but you really cant avoid it all the time. Come on, everyone has hated someone st some point in there like..... It not really a choice...its kinda natural, and you have to oner come that at one point in your life...


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## Sarde (Feb 3, 2004)

One can learn to avoid it. I am the living proof of it. We have been taught from early childhood that we are at the mercy of our emotions with no will of one's own. But many emotions are in fact (unconscious) choices. One can learn (it is hard, but not impossible) not to feel hate, not to worry, not to feel guilty...


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## celebdraug (Feb 3, 2004)

how do you manage to do that? i have tried, but i cat totally seem to avoid it. i have improved, but some people can really irritate me and i  (must avoid the h-word ) um...get annoyed


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## Sarde (Feb 3, 2004)

If you really want to learn, read the book I mentioned above ('Your erroneous zones' by Dr. Wayne Dyer). If you take its advice to heart, you will be freed of all self-destructive emotions. It is not easy because we have been conditioned to feel such emotions, but I guarantee you that it is possible.

Let me give you an example of a completely useless emotion that we are taught to have. Worry. If you don't worry about someone, you must not really love them. But what is the use of worry? It does not change anything, all it does is make you feel miserable. If your loved one is terribly ill, will it make him better if you worry about him a whole lot? If your child goes to school by himself for the first time, will it guarantee his safety to worry a whole lot?
Worry is not an expression of love, it is a neurotic behavior that keeps you from acting in the present moment. And you can learn not to feel such useless emotions and thereby become a healthier, happier and more productive person.

By the way, I first read that book when I was your age. I am now 26. I will not say that I have completely mastered the art of not having destructive feelings, but I am well on the way. It gives you a wonderful freedom, as you are no longer dependant on others for you happiness and well-being.


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## Aragorn21 (Feb 3, 2004)

Hate doesn't always have to be destructive. The defination of hate is "to have a strong dislike for." Hate doesn't always mean you want to kill or injure the object of your hate. However, i do agree with hate, "a strong dislike for" can easily turn into destructive hate, don't let your emotions control you.


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## Ol'gaffer (Feb 3, 2004)

I really doubt that any *book* can teach me not to hate.

and I don't want to lose the emotion, any emotion infact. It's what makes us human, it doesn't destroy us, but makes us stronger as people.


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## Celebthôl (Feb 3, 2004)

Sarde said:


> It will free you from all self-destructive feelings. Hate, like regret, worrying and feeling guilty is something you choose. At least you can choose not to feel hate. You don't need to surpress it.


Er...no.
1) You dont choose those feelings at all, you shoot someone accidently you dont choose to feel guilty, its the part of us implanted to make sure it doesnt happen again, it makes us regret what we just did, if there was no guilt, there would be chaos, and thats a fact. (same for worrying and regret)
2) Hate is an emotion and im with Ol'gaffer here. Why did God give us the emotion for us to not use it? It makes us human, no other living thing can feel hate...that has been proven (ergo animals do not feel hate), its like saying "control you happyness, surpress it", doing so makes you less human.


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## FIRELILY (Feb 3, 2004)

To stick with the original question....No, I don't think you should tell someone that you hate them. First, I think that word is used too lightly in place of things like "you bug the crap out of me", or "I can't stand being around you". To express a true hatred, a deep consuming feeling of loathing and disgust where there's no room for a feeling like sympathy or respect, is something more uncommon.
Even if you really felt hatred towards someone-say, as example, someone intentionally killing a loved one- your feelings would probably not make a shred of significance to that person. In fact, expressing it might just make you more vulnerable to the object of your hate.
I think to share your feelings, even if intense, with someone trusted would be a better route to go.


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## arisen pheonix (Feb 3, 2004)

yes...tell them right away....it avoids future misunderstandings....and it is not an unhealthy emotion


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## Celebthôl (Feb 3, 2004)

arisen pheonix said:


> yes...tell them right away....it avoids future misunderstandings....and it is not an unhealthy emotion


Hehehehe! Short and simple


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## arisen pheonix (Feb 3, 2004)

and true....ive just finished reading most of the rest of the thread...the only "self destructive emotions" are ones you let destroy you....which could be anger or hatred or love or anything....as for the lack of feeling the specified emotions...you can supress them, forget about them, push them to the farthest darkest corners of you mind but they are still there


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## Sarde (Feb 3, 2004)

Ol'gaffer said:


> I really doubt that any *book* can teach me not to hate.



You don't have to believe me. It did teach me not to hate. I might not have believed it in advance. But if you like hating and worrying and feeling guilty, I won't stop you.



> and I don't want to lose the emotion, any emotion infact. It's what makes us human, it doesn't destroy us, but makes us stronger as people.



Tell me what you enjoy about hating, feeling guilty, worrying etc. Tell me why it is that you would like to hold on to such negative and useless emotions.



Celebthôl said:


> 1) You dont choose those feelings at all, you shoot someone accidently you dont choose to feel guilty, its the part of us implanted to make sure it doesnt happen again, it makes us regret what we just did, if there was no guilt, there would be chaos, and thats a fact. (same for worrying and regret)



I believe you are mistaken. Feeling guilty is useless. Regretting something and deciding not to do it again on the other hand, is very useful. To use your example: you accidentally shoot someone. Now, you can either decide that it was a terrible mistake and that you will do all that you can to prevent it from happening in the future. Then you can move on with your life. You can also feel horribly guilty about it for the rest of your life. This will make you inactive and miserable. It is utterly useless.



> 2) Hate is an emotion and im with Ol'gaffer here. Why did God give us the emotion for us to not use it? It makes us human, no other living thing can feel hate...that has been proven (ergo animals do not feel hate), its like saying "control you happyness, surpress it", doing so makes you less human.



Eh... I am not religious so we have a problem here. But we are not born with the capacity to hate, worry or feel guilty. It is taught to us as part of being 'a responsible human being'. Like I said before, it is not about surpressing. Hate is not something you feel involuntarily, it is something you cultivate. I would not advice anyone to surpress happiness, as it is not (self-)destructive. Again, why would you want to feel hate? What pleasure or advantage is there in hate? Or why would God for that matter want you to feel hate?


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## Celebthôl (Feb 3, 2004)

Sarde said:


> I believe you are mistaken. Feeling guilty is useless. Regretting something and deciding not to do it again on the other hand, is very useful. To use your example: you accidentally shoot someone. Now, you can either decide that it was a terrible mistake and that you will do all that you can to prevent it from happening in the future. Then you can move on with your life. You can also feel horribly guilty about it for the rest of your life. This will make you inactive and miserable. It is utterly useless.



Its guilt, we dont like to feel guilty, so we dont do things that make us feel guilty...




> Eh... I am not religious so we have a problem here. But we are not born with the capacity to hate, worry or feel guilty. It is taught to us as part of being 'a responsible human being'. Like I said before, it is not about surpressing. Hate is not something you feel involuntarily, it is something you cultivate. I would not advice anyone to surpress happiness, as it is not (self-)destructive. Again, why would you want to feel hate? What pleasure or advantage is there in hate? Or why would God for that matter want you to feel hate?



Neither am i religious in the way you think...i just reckon theres a God and thats about it 
Anyways, if it wasnt there to begin with, where did it come from exactly?


Exactly, why WOULD you want to feel hate? Yet we all still do...  
God has no preference, hate is there as an opposite to love. There has to be an opposite for the good side, if theres no love, theres no hate. If theres no hate theres no love, humans are built with the nature of both, its just the best one almost always wins over (Love). But hate, is still there, even in the most loving person.


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## Ol'gaffer (Feb 3, 2004)

I'd rather feel guilty if I deserved to, if I had made someone feel bad I believe that I should feel guilty. It's in our nature to.

Emotions are a beutiful thing, and trying to supress them is inhuman in my opinion.


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## FIRELILY (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't believe that hate is a "God-given" emotion. I also don't believe that without hate there is no love. I think the opposite would be just to not feel, to be numb. 
But I can say that I do not personally hate anyone that I know. Even looking back at people that I couldn't tolerate being around, that made me mad, or made me wish some bad luck would befall them, I can't say I "hated" them. I've never wished anyone dead, or tortured or made to suffer.
Maybe my hate criteria is different than yours???


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## Sarde (Feb 3, 2004)

Celebthôl said:


> Its guilt, we dont like to feel guilty, so we dont do things that make us feel guilty...



Guilt is not the same as regret. Regret is healthy, guilt is not. Regret will make us decide not to do something again, guilt will debilitate us.



> Neither am i religious in the way you think...i just reckon theres a God and thats about it
> Anyways, if it wasnt there to begin with, where did it come from exactly?



We were taught by our parents and other around us that if you are 'bad' you are supposed to feel guilty, that if you love someone, you are supposed to worry about them, that if you have a test tomorrow, that you are supposed to be in anxiety about it. Yet none of these feelings will help us. Instead of saying to a child who has been 'bad' that he should 'feel ashamed of himself', we should tell him that his behavior was not good for this-or-that reason and that he should try not to do it again. Instead of being anxious about a test that is coming up, we should study to the best of our ability and then let go of it. Feeling anxious will probably only negatively influence your test result.



> Exactly, why WOULD you want to feel hate? Yet we all still do...
> God has no preference, hate is there as an opposite to love. There has to be an opposite for the good side, if theres no love, theres no hate. If theres no hate theres no love, humans are built with the nature of both, its just the best one almost always wins over (Love). But hate, is still there, even in the most loving person.



I do not feel hate. Honestly. I do not hate anyone. I have conditioned myself not to hate, because I believe it is utterly useless and destructive. Besides, the people I dislike and could possibly grow to hate, are simply not worth it. They are not worth the time and energy I would put into hating them.

If there is no hate, there still is love. I do not hate, yet I love. I am not trying to say that I am better than you or anything, I am merely trying to tell you that it is possible to not feel these kind of negative emotions if you don't want to.



Ol'gaffer said:


> I'd rather feel guilty if I deserved to, if I had made someone feel bad I believe that I should feel guilty. It's in our nature to.



Yes, you have been conditioned to punish yourself by feeling guilty. Is feeling guilty gonna change anything about what you did to that person? Would it not be better to go to that person, apologise and put the whole thing behind you? Express your regret and move on. Much better than beating yourself over the head again and again over a (usually small and unintentional) mistake?



> Emotions are a beutiful thing, and trying to supress them is inhuman in my opinion.



And again I want to ask: what is beautiful about hate? What is beautiful about feeling guilty? What is beautiful about being in anxiety? All these feelings cause noting but ulcers and heart attacks.

And again, I am not talking about surpression, I am talking about unlearning certain emotional responses that we have been conditioned to cultivate.


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## Éomond (Feb 4, 2004)

Ol'gaffer said:


> I really doubt that any *book* can teach me not to hate.
> 
> and I don't want to lose the emotion, any emotion infact. It's what makes us human, it doesn't destroy us, but makes us stronger as people.



Mmm, nicely put.

Although I (if I do at all) hate things, but never people. If I feel a strong dislike for a person, I try not to hate them. But if it's a thing like liver, and it's nasty to me, then I hate it. But if a liver was a real person, I'd try not to hate it.


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## arisen pheonix (Feb 4, 2004)

you continue saying you lack this emotion....i still find this hard to believe....do you then lack any hatred for the commiters of those terrible crimes for which executions are still held?....



we never said hate was beautiful...just emotions in themselves....

hate is like a shadow...with out culture or nurture it can grow in your mind and soul...


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## Celebthôl (Feb 5, 2004)

Sarde said:


> We were taught by our parents and other around us that if you are 'bad' you are supposed to feel guilty, that if you love someone, you are supposed to worry about them, that if you have a test tomorrow, that you are supposed to be in anxiety about it. Yet none of these feelings will help us. Instead of saying to a child who has been 'bad' that he should 'feel ashamed of himself', we should tell him that his behavior was not good for this-or-that reason and that he should try not to do it again. Instead of being anxious about a test that is coming up, we should study to the best of our ability and then let go of it. Feeling anxious will probably only negatively influence your test result.
> [/QUOT]
> 
> And where did our parents learn what hate was? What im trying to get at is that it was always in our natures to hate right from when we became "human".
> ...


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## Sarde (Feb 5, 2004)

arisen pheonix said:


> you continue saying you lack this emotion....i still find this hard to believe....do you then lack any hatred for the commiters of those terrible crimes for which executions are still held?....



It's funny that you should mention this example, of all things. I am very strongly oppposed to the death penalty and I have a number of friends on Death Row. Although I am not a Christian, I very strongly believe in 'Hate the sin, not the sinner'. So, no, I do not hate those people. I honestly hate none. If you don't want to believe me, that's up to you. I can't really prove it to you, now can I?

By the way, it is not those who commit the most heinous crimes who end up on Death Row, generally speaking. It is those who do not have the means to defend themslelves properly.





> we never said hate was beautiful...just emotions in themselves....
> 
> hate is like a shadow...with out culture or nurture it can grow in your mind and soul...



Only if you let it.


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## arisen pheonix (Feb 5, 2004)

i am truely sorry for you sarde...it seems to me that this loss of emotion has lessend your humanity...you can no longer taste the bitterness that makes life more sweet by comparison....it was your choice..is your choice....and i think we should stop this debate scince it seems to have evolved into an attack on sarde's way of life


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## Sarde (Feb 5, 2004)

Celebthôl said:


> If a man came into yours house rapped and killed all your kids and murdered your husband (only for example).
> Then you face him in court, are you saying you wouldnt feel hate towards him?



I truly hope I would be able not to hate him, because the hate would not serve do any good. It would not bother the person whom I hate, it would only consume me. If I would allow myself to hate that person, I would essentially allow him to control me and the way I feel. I will give no one the power to control my feelings, least of all the person who rapes and kills all my children and murders my husband.



> I didnt say you had to hate and love at the same time, not at all, but hate still exists in the world. It has to, Else there would be no love, we wouldnt be able to register it.



Why do you think that without hate there would be no love? What are your reasons to think this? I don't think that is true at all. I do not think that hate and love need one another in order to exist.



> No guilt doesnt change anything really, and yes appologising makes it go away, hence you should appologise



As I have explained before, feeling guilty is (among other things) a way of punishing oneself. If you regret something and make up for it, there is no need to feel guilty. Guilt is a neurotic behavior that has its own 'rewards'. If you want me to, I can elaborate on the psychological mechanism behind guilt, but it will be a long story and perhaps it would be better to do this in an e-mail or PM. So PM me if you would like me to explain myself further on this point.



> You cant unlearn what you didnt learn in the first place, they are human nature, you leave a few people on their own on an island, and have no outside influence on them, hate will occur. Just as it did with the rest of us...



Even if hate is an emotion that we are able to 'come up with' ourselves, that does not have to mean that we can't unlearn it. As babies, we are accustomed to defecating as soon as we feel the urge to. We have to unlearn this at some point if we want to become a succesful individual. There is some surpression of the urge involved perhaps, but there is a point at which it becomes a second nature, and you wouldn't even think of just 'letting it flow'.

But again, hate, unlike pain, is not something you just suddenly feel involuntarily. It is something you cultivate. Dislike is cultivated into hate when one keeps thinking of how much one dislikes a person and the reasons for the dislike. One broods on his dislike and hate is what hatches from the egg.

By the way, I think that hate and dislike are often caused my misunderstanding. If we would try harder to understand the people around us and the way they act, we would not dislike and hate so many people. You often dislike someone because his actions are completely beyond your grasp. "Why the hell does he always have to act like that?" Why not ask why he acts like that. His reasons may be totally different from what you suspect.

"People do not become upset by people and things around them, but by what they tell themselves about those people and things."
-Epictetus (a Greek philosopher)

It might be that someone 'annoys the hell out of you' by behaving in a certain way. It annoys you because you just don't get it. If you were to try and stand in his shoes you might not be so annoyed. By getting annoyed, you are only bothering yourself.


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## Sarde (Feb 5, 2004)

arisen pheonix said:


> i am truely sorry for you sarde...it seems to me that this loss of emotion has lessend your humanity...you can no longer taste the bitterness that makes life more sweet by comparison....it was your choice..is your choice....and i think we should stop this debate scince it seems to have evolved into an attack on sarde's way of life



You need not be sorry for me. I am a very happy and fulfilled person. I do not feel any loss and I do not feel that I have lost my humanity. You think I am less human for not hating anyone? I would think I have become more human (and if not that, at least a lot happier!) for not hating anyone!

Do you think that I do not taste bitterness? Do you think that I am never sad? You are wrong if you think so. And I can assure you that I fully taste the sweetness of life!

I have not experienced any attack on my way of life. If you were attacking me then I have failed to see it. Basically, I don't really care what anyone thinks about my way of life, since I have observed that I am much happier in life than most people around me are. But that does not mean that there is only joy in my life! The only emotions that I choose not to have are the ones that are destructive to my heart and soul. Sadness is not destructive. Mourning for a loved one is not destructive. Crying can be a wonderfully freeing thing.

The only thing I have tried to do on this thread is explain to you that it is possible to get rid of the type of emotions that are self-destructive. And let me tell you, there is no loss involved, only gain! I have tried to make my point clear to you because I would grant everyone to find the happiness that I find in life.

In contrary to what you may think (you must misunderstand me ), I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread until now. I would be happy to continue it and further elaborate on the points I have made.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Feb 5, 2004)

powersauce21 said:


> is it to rash to say u hate someone if u honestley feel that way?...



As with all things, you must be ready for the consequences of what you do. If you tell someone you hate them, and you really do, you must be ready for what happens afterwards. It may come to nothing, or the retribution may destroy you or hurt you and your loved ones very badly.

Once the bullet is out of the barrel, there's no recalling it. Be VERY careful with hatred. Some hatred is fully justified, but be careful. Is the hate justified? If so, then you must be extremely careful and think the whole thing through before you do anything. 

If the hated person has the power to retaliate in some way, you must think many times before you tell them you hate them. You may start something that will give you (and possibly your friends and family) grief for the rest of your life.

And as with all emotions, you are the one who feels it first. Is this the sort of thing you wish to harbor within yourself on a daily basis?

Do you hate easily and often? If so, then the problem may lie within you, because real hatred does not come except as the result of an extreme situation. Good luck in this, you raised an important point!


Lotho


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## Barliman Butterbur (Feb 5, 2004)

Celebthôl said:


> ...hate is there as an opposite to love. There has to be an opposite for the good side, if theres no love, theres no hate. If theres no hate theres no love, humans are built with the nature of both...hate, is still there, even in the most loving person.



I agree and I disagree with this. You speak as if emotions come packaged in pairs, and there can't be one without the other. With this I disagree, but I agree that each person comes with a full range of emotions. Generally they are secondary outcomes of pleasure/pain, safety/danger, tension/repose. Yet they don't come "manufactured in sets of opposites." 

It is natural to feel all emotions, yet the idea is to grow beyond feeling the self-destructive ones when not necessary. I totally agree with the Dalai Lama XIV when he says that (for instance) anger is a form of madness. Anger does have its place (for instance when protecting one's loved ones or getting out of danger), but when it becomes the basic driving emotion of our lives, then something's wrong.

It is healthy to feel any emotion when appropriate. It is also healthier to NOT feel emotions when they would not be appropriate, and to learn this as we mature is a vital necessity. 

Generally speaking, the people whose lives are run by their emotions are unhappier and experience more life troubles than the ones whose lives are based on reason.

Lotho


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## Uminya (Feb 5, 2004)

I feel that hatred is like a drug. It may feel alright hating something, but it still eats away at you.

When we liberate ourselves from the shackles of hatred, we free ourselves of a negative emotion. Hatred is the worst of all emotions, it may at first be a strong dislike, but it soon matures and evolves into hatred, leading people to commit anything from mischief to complete genocide.

Hatred is not the opposite of love, in my opinion. It is the opposite of empathy and reason. It makes us ignorant of how others feel, and it blots out reason that would certainly show us that we should respect others, no matter how badly they treat us.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Feb 5, 2004)

Ciryaher said:


> I feel that hatred is like a drug. It may feel alright hating something, but it still eats away at you.
> 
> When we liberate ourselves from the shackles of hatred, we free ourselves of a negative emotion. Hatred is the worst of all emotions, it may at first be a strong dislike, but it soon matures and evolves into hatred, leading people to commit anything from mischief to complete genocide.
> 
> Hatred is not the opposite of love, in my opinion. It is the opposite of empathy and reason. It makes us ignorant of how others feel, and it blots out reason that would certainly show us that we should respect others, no matter how badly they treat us.



Well put!!! There are so many people who are addicted to hate, anger and spitefulness because their lives are so empty otherwise, that it makes them feel alive (if you can call it that) to be able to rail against someone or something. They are to be pitied...and avoided!

Lotho


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