# How are Orcs made? Bred or Grown?



## Odin (Feb 23, 2013)

How were orcs made?


It's stated in multiple works that they are bred, but we see Saruman growing Uruk-hai in the pita of Isengard. How could Saruman just grow orcs from mud?


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## Maiden_of Harad (Feb 23, 2013)

Odin, I'm sorry I can't answer your question.
But do you realize what you've unleashed?

Someone's going to comment about how the LOTR movies have distorted the public mind-but anyway. (Not that the movies were all that faithful to the source, but they are great!)

I have read about Orcs being spawned, and of an orc being the father of another (Azog/Bolog). So maybe the answer is both.


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## Odin (Feb 23, 2013)

Maiden_of Harad said:


> Odin, I'm sorry I can't answer your question.
> But do you realize what you've unleashed?
> 
> Someone's going to comment about how the LOTR movies have distorted the public mind-but anyway. (Not that the movies were all that faithful to the source, but they are great!)
> ...



Magneto: The war has begun......


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## morgoth145 (May 10, 2013)

Originally, orcs were elves captured by Morgoth, whom he tortured until they became orcs, so I assume that the orcs bred amongst each other. Something I've been wondering about was whether the orcs are still immortal like the elves are, or if they lost their immortality by being so horribly twisted and marred.


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## daTomoT (May 11, 2013)

morgoth145 said:


> Originally, orcs were elves captured by Morgoth, whom he tortured until they became orcs, so I assume that the orcs bred amongst each other. *Something I've been wondering about was whether the orcs are still immortal like the elves are*, or if they lost their immortality by being so horribly twisted and marred.



This has really sparked my interest. My immediate response is 'No! Have you ever seen an old orc?' but then, the people in charge of the orcs (ie Melkor, Sauron and to a lesser extent Saruman) never keep them long enough for us to know this, they're just disposable tools for one time use. Perhaps if an orc was treated 'right' and allowed to grow, perhaps they would last a very long time. For even the elves could die from a grievous bodily injury, or waste away in grief (though I can't see an Orc crying itself to sleep). Thought provoking indeed. Perhaps the orcs really have an intellect rivalling that of elves? Okay, men then. Now that is heartbreaking.

As for born or grown; I would say born. We know that the first orcs were twisted elves, and being of the same species I expect they can still interbreed, and I'm sure I've seen it in one of the texts that Melkor or Sauron 'bred' an army. As for Saruman's creation of Uruk-Hai seemingly from mud in the film adaption, I think this is misleading. In The Two Towers (book), Treebeard alludes to Uruk-Hai being a hybrid of orc and human (Wildmen of Dunland). Now, think about the way some animals create nurseries for their young before they are born. This could be the mud-vats of Saruman, a place for the young foetus to grow outside of the body. I don't actually know how Orc breeding works, but that's one theory, that orcs are bred but then developed externally. I can;t quite grasp the notion of a pregnant, female orc. It's uncomfortable.


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## Bucky (May 15, 2013)

morgoth145 said:


> Originally, orcs were elves captured by Morgoth, whom he tortured until they became orcs, so I assume that the orcs bred amongst each other. Something I've been wondering about was whether the orcs are still immortal like the elves are, or if they lost their immortality by being so horribly twisted and marred.



*Well, not really true...

This is what Christopher Tolkien with Guy Kay's assistance decided to write (create) for a published Silmarillion, but it's simply not what JRR Tolkien ever decided to publish.

For the elder's thoughts on the matter, you need to read HoME Volume Ten, Morgoth's Ring, specifically 'Myth's transformed' #7 & 8 I believe, to see what JRR Tolkien said: He wasn't ever sure if orcs came from Elves, Men of both in the end.*


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