# Battle Numbers in Lord of the Rings



## Spirit of Fire (Jun 22, 2020)

Tolkien rarely states numbers explicitly, apart from the Battle for Helm's Deep. But a few other battles are fairly vague, and I'd like to hear some theories. Karen Wynn Fonstad is a great Middle-earth historian and analyst, so we can also delve into her works, such as the Atlas of Middle-earth. The battles specifically I would like to examine are:

*The Battle of Pelennor Fields *(obviously)
Good

Rohan - 6000 cavalry
Gondor
~3000 Fiefdom warriors ("tithe of their strength" as a soldier's interpretation ~1/10)
Garrison of Minas Tirith ?? Karen puts this number at around 2000, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 3000 or 4000 - ~3500. They were obviously expecting to swell their numbers considerably with the fiefs. I hardly think the reactions to more than doubling their numbers would have been met with such disappointment. This puts the defence of the city at 6 or 7 thousand, which fits in with Aragorn's statement of leaving the city in better hands when the defence started, even though he removed 7000.

The Grey Company
30 Rangers + 3000 at least I would say. Hard to estimate what "great valour", but if the fiefs could put forth 25,000-30,000, a great valour would be quite considerable.

TOTAL - 15,530

Evil - the numbers are much more speculative

Morgul - unclear (greater than any host since the days of Isildur's might ~ 20,000?
Mordor - at least another 10,000-20,000
Harad - 18,000 (thrice the Rohirrim)
Khand/Rhun - No idea, Karen estimates *7000* [edit from 5000] which I think is quite conservative, but still reasonable.
TOTAL - 53,000

*The Battle of the Black Gate


The Battle of Dagorlad (Last Alliance)*

these battles to follow...


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## Halasían (Jun 22, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> *• The Grey Company*
> 
> _30 Rangers + 3000 at least I would say. Hard to estimate what "great valour", but if the fiefs could put forth 25,000-30,000, a great valour would be quite considerable._



I'm a bit confused by what you're saying here. I interpret the Grey Company to be 31 Dunedain Rangers (the thirty Halbarad gathered in haste plus himself), and the Sons of Elrond, making it 33. Not sure where you get 3000 in the Grey Company. I'm probably am reading this wrong but if you could clarify how you came up with 3033 in the Grey Company I'd love to know.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 22, 2020)

Halasían said:


> I'm a bit confused by what you're saying here. I interpret the Grey Company to be 31 Dunedain Rangers (the thirty Hlabarad gathered in haste plus himself), and the Sons of Elrond, making it 33. Not sure where you get 3000 in the Grey Company. I'm probably am reading this wrong but if you could clarify how you came up with 3033 in the Grey Company I'd love to know.



The extra 3000 I count as the men of the Southern Fiefs that Aragorn recruits and brings up the river on the ships. The book states it as "a great valour of the folk of Lebennin and Lamedon and the fiefs of the South". Remember that this is not like the movie, where they butchered the battle. Good won the battle through tactics and skill, not through salvation through the all powerful Army of the Dead. Given that Aragorn instructed 4000 + men manning the ships (500-1000) to come up later to Minas Tirith, it's likely that he had recruited 3000 when he docked at Harlond initially.


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## Halasían (Jun 23, 2020)

Ah, so not really "The Grey Company" then.
Yes, Aragorn rallied several thousand and also the slaves on teh ships were rallied to him when they were set free.

Good stuff. Look forward to your other analysis of battles.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jul 4, 2020)

*Battle of the Black Gate*

Good

less than 6000 total, as stated.
5000-5200 foot-soldiers
Probably 800 horsemen or so. Although none would have been left at the Cross-Roads, some riders lost heart and would have been with the group sent to retake Cair Andros

TOTAL - 6000

Evil

The book states "ten times and more than ten times their number". Also it is clearly stated as being larger than the Pelennor force. Given that force was between 50,000-60,000, this force was probably closer to 80,000.

Mordor - 70,000-80,000
Rhun - 10,000
TOTAL - 85,000

There's not too much analysis for this battle, but it is clear that victory by arms would be futile in this case.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jul 4, 2020)

*The Last Alliance*

Elrond makes a reference to the might of the Last Alliance, and given he witnessed the host of the Valar, he is something of an authority. Every single living race was involved in this war, so the numbers would have been huge. The elves and Faithful would have emptied their forces, and even though dwarves only came from Khazad-dum, that still was a powerful kingdom and would have supplied a massive force. Perhaps someone can help me out with the Evil side, as I will be guessing completely there (even more than usual). But probably 3 to 5 times the size of the Good force. 

Good

Lindon/Rivendell/Eregion ~ 20,000
Greenwood ~ 7000
Lothlorien ~ 3000
Dunedain - 10 years passed since the ships of the Faithful landed and established kingdoms, which would not have been enough time to multiply and thus create new soldiers. However, from generations before they had good relations with the lesser men of Middle-earth, and although these relations had dissipated with the corruption of Numenor, I find it likely that they would have entered the service of The Faithful. This would have provided a large bulk of the force. 
Arnor - 15,000 (more Dunedain but fewer lesser men in those areas)
Gondor - 20,000

Khazad-dum - 10,000
TOTAL - 75,000

Evil

I can only suppose that the coordination of the forces attacking Gondor was a bit late, which is why Anarion with a depleted Dunedain force, was able to initially withstand the assault. Sauron probably attacked too soon. 

Mordor - 150,000
Men of the East - 40,000
Dwarves?? ~ 5,000
TOTAL - ~200,000, or somewhere near. Given the numbers in the War of the Ring, and Sauron having regained much of his former strength, this number seems reasonable. Speculative, as well, so if anyone has any opinions on the numbers please share.


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## Halasían (Jul 4, 2020)

How do you figure dwarves as taking part on the side of Mordor in The Last Alliance?


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## Spirit of Fire (Jul 4, 2020)

Halasían said:


> How do you figure dwarves as taking part on the side of Mordor in The Last Alliance?


Well in _Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age _it makes specific reference to all creatures (except elves), even birds and beasts, being divided in that war. Then it states specifically that the dwarves of Durin fought with the elves and Dunedain. This means that some dwarves not of Durin's folk did fight with Sauron, probably due to hatred for the elves or promise of treasure.


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