# Concerning Hobbits



## triple3 (Jul 19, 2002)

*hobbits*

about hobbits

They came into the west in the third age over the misty mountain.
They came in different stages. In the relative history of ME they are pretty near the end of it's writen history.
Why didn't they have some kind of recorded history of their lives in the east? Did they not have written language until they encountered men?
I want more info about the "east" damnit.

Do you think that the Istari who went into the east have something to do with hobbit migration? Maybe they had insight and gave indirect help for it?


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## HLGStrider (Jul 20, 2002)

I'd say they more than likely came west to avoid men. They probably developed their own language. They are a simple, non intellectual folk and probably keeping their history didn't matter too much to them. I doubt that the Istari would have an effect on them. They were probably looking for a place of their own away from Big Folk... sort of like heading to America when it was newly discovered. There they probably lead a barebones existance for some time before setting up their simple but highly effective system. I admire the Hobbiton form of government. It strikes me as the freest and fairest of all in Middle Earth.


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## Rúmil (Jul 20, 2002)

The ancestors of the Hobbits lived on the baks of the Anuin, or further east and North. They began to emigrate about the 14th century III, fleeing from the Shadow of Mirkwood, and marched long until they arrived in the places around Bree. From there, most of them later crossed the Baranduin into the Shire. They spoke the Common Tongue of the West (descended from Adunaic, the vernacular of the Island of Númenor) with some colloquialisms.

PS Whatdyamean you don't know where your Fotr is? always keep your Lotr, Sil, UT, and Home attached to you with a heavy chain.


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## Lantarion (Jul 20, 2002)

Of course the Hobbits had their own tongue! What about the similarity that is pointed out in the TT, with Hobbitish _kuduk_ and Rohirric _kûd-dûkan_?? That is obvious proof of the Hobbitish tongue. And the names of the Hobbits given in the LotR are not their genuine names. Eg. the name 'Gamgee' is derived from Gen. Hobitish _Galpsi_, from _Galbasi_, from _Galabas_. All Hobbitish, mind you!


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## Rúmil (Jul 20, 2002)

Reread Appendix F, Pontifex, and you will find that these words are in the Common Tongue. Hobbits just used a dialect of Westron.


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## Lantarion (Jul 20, 2002)

Well it was certainly a very strange dialect, if you ask me.


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## Rúmil (Jul 20, 2002)

They did not have thier own language, that is why they could speak to the people of Gondor in Weston, the common Tongue, their native tongue.


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## Rúmil (Jul 20, 2002)

Yes. You got it there. They just spoke the Common Tongue with a thick accent.


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## Rúmil (Jul 20, 2002)

Eru knows!


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## HLGStrider (Jul 20, 2002)

It doesn't matter that the writing is in English. They do that no matter what language is being spoken... not always. For instance in the Two Towers, there are large sections where the folk in Rohan are speaking in their own language. It is always written in English. 

I don't know enough about Hobbit language to comment on whether they did or not, however.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 20, 2002)

I suggest they had their own language.
Every folk,every different nation has own language even in our world.Sometimes it's similar to other ,but mostly differs from others .That's why I belive hobbits had a language ONCE.
But their contact with people and other creatures made them speak The Common language and in fact they easy accepted it and many other things.


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## Rúmil (Jul 20, 2002)

It's written plain and simple in Appendix F, folks: the Hobbits spoke the Common Westron Tongue (reffered to as Common speech in the text) with a few colloquialisms.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 20, 2002)

Do you think that they had spoken the common language before they had had any contact with people,dwarves,elves..etc.I doubt.
The appendix says what language they were speaking at the time of these events,but nothing for the time before.So I would say is possible hobbits had had own language in the beginnig.


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## Ithrynluin (Jul 20, 2002)

I also think they had their own language _once_ but it was "overrun" (for lack of a better word) by the Common tongue of men.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 20, 2002)

Exactly my thoughts!!!


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## HLGStrider (Jul 20, 2002)

I agree too...

pointless to post it, but I just thought I should be amiable.... Especially after torchering pore Rumil wit mie speling...


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 20, 2002)

HLGStride,why do you thing is pointless to post it?If you agree with us you're welcome  I think that we just follow the simpliest logic.


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## HLGStrider (Jul 20, 2002)

I must be out of sorts... 

Hello, Gil...

Where was I?

Yes, I've been missorted and then my speling haz ben anoyeeng Rumul.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 20, 2002)

Hey HLGStrider I have sleepless night and an awful headache so I'm searching for someone to talk with.


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## HLGStrider (Jul 20, 2002)

Hope your headache gets better. Last time we were talking it was four here... it is now eight. Geez... I will never grow accustomed to talking to people out of my time zone.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 20, 2002)

You're right,HLGStrider,but some games made my head feel better !


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## Rúmil (Jul 21, 2002)

*more convusions and drooling on the floor with bloodshot eyes caused by HLGStrider's spelling *

On the point of Hobbit languages: yes, they had their own tongue at the time when they had yet had little or no contact with other peoples. But they had long forgotten it at the time of the War of the Ring.

**edit: I should check _my_ spelling (or at least typos) before checking others of course


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## LadyGaladriel (Jul 21, 2002)

they do have an avid intrest in Geography example of Bilbo facisination with Maps. 


They also have a musem


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## HLGStrider (Jul 21, 2002)

He was really quite good with maps... 

Poor Rumil... Perhaps I should stop. It is getting a little more than old.


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## Rúmil (Jul 21, 2002)

*blows his nose*tha... thank you, I, I can't tell you how gald I am *cries again*


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## HLGStrider (Jul 21, 2002)

Elgee pats him on the back and offers him a hankerchief.

"Thank you... I am gald you are gald."



CAUGHT YOU!!!


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## Cian (Jul 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rúmil: _On the point of Hobbit languages: yes, they had their own tongue at the time when they had yet had little or no contact with other peoples. But they had long forgotten it at the time of the War of the Ring.



The histories tell that there is no record of any language peculiar to Hobbits, and that in ancient days they seem always to have used the languages of Men near whom, or among whom, they lived.

The Hobbit former tongue (before adopting C.S.) was a Mannish language of the upper Anduin, akin to that of the Rohirrim (and etc. about the southern Stoors).


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## Cian (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: hobbits*



> Originally posted by triple3: Why didn't they have some kind of recorded history of their lives in the east?



_"The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten. Only the Elves still preserve any records of that vanished time and their traditions are concerned almost entirely with their own history, in which Men seldom appear and Hobbits are not mentioned at all." _ JRRT



> "Did they not have written language until they encountered men?"



Here's a note on writing anyway, to toss into any discussion regarding Hobbits and letters:

_"It was in these early days, doubtless, that the Hobbits learned their letters and began to write after the manner of the Dúnedain, who had in their turn long before learned the art from the Elves. And in those days also they forgot whatever languages they had used before, and spoke ever after the Common Speech, ..."_


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## aragil (Jul 22, 2002)

Even by the time of the War of the Ring Sam it was worth remarking that Sam had learned his letters from Bilbo- so Hobbit-literacy was probably considerably below 100%. And among the men of Bree Barliman takes great pride in the fact that he can read.


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## HLGStrider (Jul 22, 2002)

At the time I wouldn't say writing was a necessary skill for most people. I'd imagine that literacy rates were similar everywhere. After all, if you don't have a town paper, books are rare, and your job doesn't involve reading, it would probably be more of a status symbol than a marketable skill.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 23, 2002)

HMhmhhm,I agree with HLGStrider.I think that not many peole ,hobbits etc.were able to write and read.I would compare the development of Me as that of Middle ages in our world.People were more busy in their survivig than in being educated persons.For example Boromir was much more adored from Gondor's people and his father than Faramir who loves books and gaing knowledge from them.


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## aragil (Jul 23, 2002)

And don't forget, Gondor was probably considered to be a 'learned' nation at the time. I think it says somewhere that Rohan doesn't even have a written language, and that all their histories were still oral (at least at the end of the Third Age). The Easterlings and Haradrim were probably worse off, although in our own world history there was quite a bit of knowledge among the various peoples which were considered 'barbaric' by the Europeans.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 23, 2002)

Yeah Aragil I forgot this fact,but it's true ,with the years knowledge of people decreased and they had not been so educated as Numenorians in the past .


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