# Cosmos



## ingolmo (Jul 10, 2005)

What, or who, in JRR Tolkien's world is Eru Illuvatar?

Where and what are Eru's halls? Are they mere symbolisations of heaven?

How did Eru create the Ainur of his thought?

When Eru made the music of the Ainur real, do you think he only created Arda, or did he create the whole Universe?

If he did create the whole universe, then did Tolkien hide it, and ignore it in his stories?

If he didn't create it, was Arda the only thing in the void?

What was the condition of life and existence of anything before Eru made the Ainur and Arda?

What is life meant to be in Tolkien's world?


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## ingolmo (Jul 11, 2005)

Seems like I'll have to answer my own questions before getting any replies. 
Well, here I go:

Eru Illuvatar is the supreme creator, God, who was present before anything else existed. (But how can that be true?)

Eru's halls are just a symbolisation of where Eru was present, overlooking everything, and creating the Ainur, to amuse him. They can be compared to heaven to an extent, though it is not completely so.

Eru, being the almighty, and having nothing to do except look at nothingness, created the Ainur, which were just present as mere thoughts of his, to amuse himself. This also means that the Ainur are not independant divine beings, but they are just a part of Eru, they are his thoughts. Thus, in creating the Ainur, Eru created imagination, or creation, or a beginning, by thinking, or by creating a thought. 

It's really hard to say, but in Tolkien's particular cosmology and philosophy, there was only the one world, which Eru made and looks over. 

The world was the only thing in the middle of the void. Outside the world, there was the void, nothing else, just somewhere, or maybe everywhere and omnipresent, were the halls of Eru.

There was nothing except for Eru before the Ainur. How Eru came to be, nobody knows. 

Life is merely a representation that something with magic, or truth in it exists in the universe. It shows that something is there in the Void. But indeed, life could also just be entertainment for Eru. But in true terms, just imagine how the universe would be without life?


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## Confusticated (Jul 11, 2005)

I agree with you about who Eru is, but have nothing to say on his motives and reasons.

Yes the whole universe, and not just our solar system or planet, was created, and is Ea. If you have HoME 10 or 11 I can suggest some passages to be read that mention or explain this, but in short: Ea = all creation/ universe, Arda = a defined region, frequently used for the world or the solar system, Ambar/Imbar = the Earth only 'the habitation'. (I think a lot of people have to say "Arda" or "Middle-earth" when they exactly mean "Ambar/Imbar", due to the word not being well known.) On the matter of the goings on beyond Arda, let me just quote something I found very interesting which I have never seen quoted or mentioned before:



> *HoME 10*
> 
> ...for they [the elves] hold that all Creation of any sort must be in Ea, proceeding from Eru in the same way, and therefore being of the same Order. They do not believe in contemporaneous non-contiguous worlds except as an amusing fantasy of the mind. They are (say they) either altogether unknowable, even as to whether they are or are not, or else if there are any intersections (however rare) they are only provinces of one Ea.



I wouldn't say JRRT hid the rest of the universe in his stories. More a matter of him ignoring it in the stories, but the creation story was written as elvish knowledge and the elvish lore centers on what concerns them. Taking what I quoted above, I could speculate that this is a major reason that elsewhere in the universe isn't mentioned in the stories. It just didn 't come into it, but it is supposed and allowed to exist.

As for the state of life and things before Eru created the Ainur, the tale of the Ainulindale seems to hold that everything was void before. If there was something existing before the Ainur, I don't think the Ainur know it. If so, saw no reason to tell the elves.


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## ingolmo (Jul 12, 2005)

Thanks for clearing that one question. And yes, I did mean Ambar when I said Arda, I had read the word somewhere, but I didn't remember it. 

But if everything was void before the Ainur, then where did Eru come from?I understand your point, but this is a widely debated point in philosophy. If Eru I won't use the word 'God', in fear of a mod destroying this post.  creatied the Universe and there was nothing before that, then where did Eru come from?


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## Confusticated (Jul 12, 2005)

As far as I know JRRT never indicated where Eru had come from. But if you want my opinion I don't think its knowable. There could be something that seems like nothing to us, but in fact is not.


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## ingolmo (Jul 13, 2005)

You're probably right. After all, Tolkien was just a philologist and writer, not a philosopher. And no philosopher so far has managed to answer that question.

*Looks out far and wide, in search of something*
Does anyone else want to give their opinions?


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