# How did Aragorn die a premature death?



## Strider97 (Feb 24, 2002)

*Aragorn's Death*

In the Pyre of Denethor Gandalf states that Authority is not given to you Steward of Gondor, to order the hour of your death" answered Gandalf. 'And only the heathen kings under the domination of the Dark Power did thus slaying themselves in pride and despair.

In the Tales of Arwen and Aragorn however Aragorn seems to chose the time of his death " when he said that If I do not go now then soon I will go perforce. 

How can this be reconciled.


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## Aldanil (Feb 24, 2002)

The essential difference, I think, is that Aragorn is not killing himself (nor trying to take his living son and heir into death with him) but laying down his mortal life while still in the full possession of his faculties; to put it simply, Elessar has the authority that Denethor has not. As he says in farewell to his beloved Arwen Undomiel, "Lady, I am the last of the Numenoreans and the latest King of the Elder Days; and to me has been given not only a span thrice that of Men of Middle-earth, but also the grace to go at my will, and give back the gift. Now, therefore, I will sleep."


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## Goro Shimura (Feb 24, 2002)

Christ similarly "gave up the ghost" of his own accord, yet I don't recall him ever being referred to as heathenish or suicidal.


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## Strider97 (Feb 24, 2002)

I would never call Aragorn heathenish or suicidal. I just wonder as a man how he was able to choose the time of his death. Another question is why did he think that Arwen could still cross the sea? I love this tale of Arwen and Aragorn as told in the appendix.


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## Gothmog (Feb 24, 2002)

Aragorn at the time of his death had lived the time alloted to him and could then give up his life by a simple matter of choice. Denethor on the other hand had not done so and therefore had to resort to killing himself by other means, in his case fire.


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## Eonwe (Feb 24, 2002)

It is said that regarding the early Kings of Numenor that they would let go of their life, when they felt it was ready to go (paraphrase). The later corrupt kings would kling to it, using every art they had to stay alive as long as possible, thus not letting a new king start until much later in life.

Wut Im trwhyin to say is that he let it go when he felt it was time to leave him.


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## HLGStrider (Feb 25, 2002)

I always felt


> Another question is why did he think that Arwen could still cross the sea?



I always assumed Aragorn felt the weakness of death approaching, and knowing that Arwen would find it hard and overwelmed with love for her... a noble sacrificial love that would rather be miserable than allow her to be miserable... made this last ditch attempt to save her... perhaps in a panic.... Or maybe he was testing her love??? That's all mental, though. I can't think of a physical or sensible reason why he made the offer... It sure sounded good, though...


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## Strider97 (Feb 25, 2002)

HLGStrider-

Good post, from a class jester to that nice little girl to a romantic, nice transition. I think he was hoping against hope to spare her the bitterness of the gift to man.


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## HLGStrider (Feb 25, 2002)

Well, Aragorn is my perfect man... 

All women are romantics or can be if they try. Just they all have different ideas on what is and what isn't.


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## Niniel (Apr 10, 2002)

*Aragorn's death*

In the 'Tale of Aragorn and Arwen' Aragorn says, when he is about do die: 'I am the last of the Númenoreans and the latest King of the Elder Days; and to me has been given not only a span thrice that of Men of Middle-Earth, but also the grace to go at my will and give back the gift.'
And Arwen pleads with him that he should not die yet, but live longer. So its seems Aragorn had the possibility to choose when he wanted to die (or 'sleep' as he puts it)? I don't understand, how did he get that choice?


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## Úlairi (Apr 10, 2002)

Aragorn had the same choice that the Numenorean Kings of old had, whether or not to live or die. But some of the Numenorean Kings, like Ar-Phazazon the Golden chose not to die because he did not want to die, so his 'age' caught up on him.


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## Elanor2 (Apr 11, 2002)

Basically, the Numenoreans had a long life, 4 times the life of a normal human, and Elros descendants twice as much. That was a gift of the Valar. They would reach maturity a bit slower than normal humans and then age slowly but keeping full faculties until about the last 10 years of their life. Then, the process of ageing will accelerate and they will lose faculties very fast. During that period they usually gave the inheritance to their heirs and then prepare themselves to die. They gave up life volontarily, using perhaps their willpower.

Probably, these last 10 years of life were not exactly pleasant. It was, perhaps, like paying up for having enjoyed a full life before, so the fact that they could give it up pacefully was a blessing. Some however decided to stick up till the end, trying to refuse death, but they only became doddering imbeciles and died anyway at their appointed times.


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## Úlairi (Apr 11, 2002)

That's right Elanor2. Sorry Niniel, I was just too lazy at the time to pick it up!


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## HLGStrider (Apr 12, 2002)

... and imagine what it would've been like for Arwen to see Aragorn go through that!
I think he probably did the right thing for her as well, considering the options.


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## Úlairi (Apr 12, 2002)

Yes, me too. Poor Arwen. I would like to have had a good description of Eldarion.


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## HLGStrider (Apr 12, 2002)

There used to be another thread discussing whether it was moral or not for him to do this, I believe... It went down the list long ago...


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## HLGStrider (Apr 12, 2002)

Why didn't he have the choice?


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## Úlairi (Apr 12, 2002)

Yes, I seem to remember that too, HLG gonna hit the 1000 post mark today are we?


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## HLGStrider (Apr 12, 2002)

YUP!!! Passed it on the Ranger thread about four posts ago... aren't I something? Trying to make the top ten posters without any of what Ciryher calls spamming... so that he won't fry me...

It would make sense that Aragorn's son would have the gift. If anything he would be of greater blood that Aragorn, having Arwen for a mother. However, I have heard it said that Aragorn was a man in the wrong age, so to speak, a Numenorean of earlier days born in a fading age, sort of a fluke. Does anyone agree with that? His father's hardly had his life span. Did his son have it?


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## Úlairi (Apr 12, 2002)

Well, seeing as Eldarion is half-elven, then I believe that he may have had a chance to live to the same days as the Numenorean Kings. The fact that Aragorn's age could possibly have been a fluke interests me. HLG, could you show me where you found this information? Oh, and I hope you make the top ten!


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## HLGStrider (Apr 13, 2002)

I didn't find it anywhere in the books. Someone told me it... It might've been Harad... It was during an argument over whether or not Aragorn would've tried for the throne if the ring hadn't have been found. H's argument was that A was getting old and would've done it already if he was going to. I pointed out that A lived to be over 200. H pointed out that the average age of the Dunaden/Ranger chieftens before A was about 70 years (Due in part to wars, I'm sure, but some of them died of natural causes.). I have not done the math myself, but it does seem that Aragorn was an unusual case, if this is true.


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## Úlairi (Apr 14, 2002)

Hmmm, interesting. I do believe that Aragorn's age was abnormal for a ranger, but he was of a true-blooded Numenorean line, Elendil who was of the family of Elros Tar-Minyatur, so perhaps Aragorn's age was not abnormal.


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## Elanor2 (Apr 14, 2002)

I think that Aragorn's forefathers lived a bit longer than 70 years. For example looking at the Appendix A we can see how long they were either kings of chieftains. For example, Elendur, 8th king of Arnor after Elendil, reigned 125 years, Araphor, 18th after Elendil, reigned for 180 years. Most of the Chieftains (after all nothern kingdoms were destroyed) ruled for an average of 70 years (except Aragorn's father and grandfather, who were killed in battle, so there is not way of knowing how long they would have lived).

These are only ruling years, and we cannot know how old they were when they became rulers, so it is possible that Aragorn was no freak at all, but was just living up to his inheritance.


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## HLGStrider (Apr 14, 2002)

Wish Harad was around to hear that... would've given quite a bit to my argument...


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## Gothmog (Apr 14, 2002)

Actually, the giving up of life by choice was not exclusive to the Dunedain.


> But Bëor at the last had relinquished his life willingly and passed in peace; and the Eldar wondered much at the strange fate of Men, for in all their lore there was no account of it, and its end was hidden from them.


 From the Silmarillion: chapter 17, of The Coming of Men into the West.

So even before Numenor was even thought of, All men could give up their life willingly when the time was right. It was only due to the fear of not knowing what was to happen after (which was caused by Morgoth's influence), that stoped men from doing so.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Apr 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gothmog _
> *Actually, the giving up of life by choice was not exclusive to the Dunedain.
> From the Silmarillion: chapter 17, of The Coming of Men into the West.
> 
> So even before Numenor was even thought of, All men could give up their life willingly when the time was right. It was only due to the fear of not knowing what was to happen after (which was caused by Morgoth's influence), that stoped men from doing so. *






Yes i think some elves could do that 2. If there spirit was weary or something. Like feanors mum. I'm not sure if that was only for men.


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## Úlairi (Apr 14, 2002)

Could Elves give up their spirits Beleg? I don't seem to recall that from anywhere. Perhaps you could enlighten us? Btw, Gothmog, great post! So, not only could the Numenoreans give up their life so could all men (when the time was right). I believe apart from Beor, that no other men save the Numenoreans willingly gave up their lives. Could anyone find reference to another man or woman giving up her life?


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## Elanor2 (Apr 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ulairi _
> *Could Elves give up their spirits Beleg? I don't seem to recall that from anywhere. *



As for the elves, when they grow weary of the world they leave their bodies behind and their spirits go to the Halls of Mandor in Valinor. The same happens if they are killed. The first one who left volontarily was Feanor's mother. But their spirits never leave Arda.


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## Úlairi (Apr 15, 2002)

Ah yes, know I remember! Thankyou Elanor2.


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## Fanghorn (Apr 17, 2002)

In the tale of Aragorn and Arwen???
where can this be found. 
I am in the middle of the Silmarillion, but do not recall, anything of my prior readings of this tale


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## Lantarion (Apr 17, 2002)

Welcome 'Fang-Horn'! 
The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen is in the appendix to the LotR, as well as some very interesting facts and dates..
After the Sil (which IMHO is the best book written by Tolkien) read UT. I've almost finished it and I learned a hell of a bunch of new things.. _Narn i Hîn Húrin_ is especially magnificent, I think.


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## HLGStrider (Apr 17, 2002)

I sort of skipped through the Appen. (Blush) 

I love the Tale Of Aragorn and Arwen, however. Read it over and over and over and over.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Apr 17, 2002)

There is quite a lot of info in U.T to they have a whole chapter on Aragorn and Arwen and if i remember nrightly there is more info in it then in the lotr appendix chapter. Read the loptr one 1st though.


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## Úlairi (Apr 17, 2002)

And there is a complete history of Celeborn and Galadriel, as well as the journey of the Black Riders and their hunt for the One Ring.


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 13, 2005)

It really stirred me while I re-read the story of Arwen and Aragorn.
Arwen gave up her immortality and chose to be near her mortal husband, facing whatever challenges there are in such a weak condition. What do you think of Aragorn's decision to end his life prematurely?


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## Valandil (Jul 13, 2005)

I don't think it was prematurely - I think his time had come.

I don't really see it as anything like a 'suicide' - although it might easily be interpreted that way. I liken it more to someone who is near death anyway, and in a sense, "lets go" after they had been "holding on".

He might have been able to prolong his life further, but I think he sensed he had reached the time to 'let go'.


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## Maeglin (Jul 14, 2005)

I also think that he simply knew that his time had come. I think he realized that his task in life was to restore the kingdom of Gondor and to lead them into the 4th age of Middle-earth and the dominion of men, and he did just that. After this happened, he knew it was time to pass the torch.....not to mention that by this time all of his closest friends had gone from Middle-earth (the fellowship, elves, etc.)


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## ingolmo (Jul 14, 2005)

He just let go of himself. Not really suicidal. He'd just experienced enough in the world. It wasn't a premature death. Aragorn was wise and strong enough to know what he should do and when, and he did so.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 14, 2005)

Aragorn's death certainly was not premature-it was the fullfillment of the original nature of death to die with dignity and when it was right-and not to drag on the years for the sake of others or your own pride, as the Numenoreans did when they began to fall from their old ways. Aragorn knew his time had come and knew it was useless to cling onto life when he shouldn't do so.


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## baragund (Jul 14, 2005)

Thorondor, to reinforce what the others have said, the Akallabeth discusses this.

This is from the description of the reign of Tar-Atanamir, thirteenth king of Numenor:



> ...for they [the King's Men] wished still to escape death in their own day, not waiting upon hope. And Atanamir lived to a great age, clinging to his life beyond the end of all joy; and he was the first of the Numenoreans to do this, refusing to depart until he was witless an unmanned, and denying to his son the kingship at the height of his days.



Aragorn's death was a return to the original understanding of Men's mortality that the Numenoreans had until the time of Atanamir.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 14, 2005)

Inderjit S said:


> Aragorn's death certainly was not premature-it was the fullfillment of the original nature of death to die with dignity and when it was right-and not to drag on the years for the sake of others or your own pride, as the Numenoreans did when they began to fall from their old ways. Aragorn knew his time had come and knew it was useless to cling onto life when he shouldn't do so.



Exactly.

He knew that he had lived enough and felt that it was time for him,just like in the early days of the Numenoreans.


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 14, 2005)

Even technically, he commited suicide, and any suicide is premature death. I am not saying that he should have clung to life, but just face with dignity the destiny of Men. I mean, what example does he give to Men? When the going gets tough, you should hit the corner?
However, what most concerns me is Arwen: she, a once elven lady, is _abandoned_ and she is so much braver than he is, by facing death and old age.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 14, 2005)

Oh come on-suicide? I see-so clinging on to life when you didn't need to was showing a better example to men? Isn't that the problem with men and death? 



> It was in any case a special grace. An opportunity for dying according to the original plan for the unfallen: they went into a state in which they could acquire greater knowledge and peace of mind and being healed of hurts both of mind and body, could at last surrender themselves: die of free will, and even of desire, an estel. _A thing which Aragorn achieved without any such aid_


 Morgoths Ring

Arwen is abandoned? So you want him to live forever? And just because he didn't live as long as some of his forefathers doesn't mean his death was premature.


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## Ingwë (Jul 15, 2005)

Aragorn is a mortal man. He is descendant of Elros Tar-Miniatur who also died when he decided that it is time to die. Aragorn felt that his time has come. His forefathers lived longer but they lived in the Second age (I mean the Kings of Númenor). Aragorn felt that he finished his work in the Middle-earth. 



Appendix A said:


> *And wherever King Elessar went with war King Éomer went with him; and beyond the Sea of Rhún and on the far fields of the Sough the thunder of the cavalry of the Mark was heard, and the White Horse upon Green flew in many winds until Éomer grew old*


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## Valandil (Jul 15, 2005)

Thorondor_ said:


> Even technically, he commited suicide, and any suicide is premature death. I am not saying that he should have clung to life, but just face with dignity the destiny of Men. I mean, what example does he give to Men? When the going gets tough, you should hit the corner?
> However, what most concerns me is Arwen: she, a once elven lady, is _abandoned_ and she is so much braver than he is, by facing death and old age.



Thorondor, I see what you're saying, but I think it's helpful to look at this in a literary, heroic sense - as sort of a 'perfect ending for a perfect man' - if we can say that about him.

I don't think it should serve as a model for us in real life, by any means - and I don't think that Tolkien would have either. I don't think he would have advocated suicide, euthenasia, etc - and I think that he, the author, saw a distinction between Aragorn's passing and those things.


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## baragund (Jul 15, 2005)

At the risk of coming across like I'm beating a dead horse, I think there is a difference between suicide, where one causes his/her own death and Aragorn's situation. Aragorn simply recognized when the end was coming and accepted it with dignity and grace.

To take a modern example, it is like the difference between a terminal cancer patient who chooses to die in relative peace and comfort in his home with his family and friends with him vs. the patient who goes after those additional rounds of radiation and chemotherapy just to eke out a few extra weeks of life in intense sickness and pain. Would you consider the cancer patient who chooses to die at home to be committing suicide? I wouldn't.

Aragorn is like the former while Tar-Atanamir and most of the Numenorean kings after him are like the latter.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 15, 2005)

Valandil-I still have no idea how once can in any way, shape, or form, associate suicide with Aragorn accepting the gift of Eru.


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## Valandil (Jul 15, 2005)

Inderjit S said:


> Valandil-I still have no idea how once can in any way, shape, or form, associate suicide with Aragorn accepting the gift of Eru.



I don't think that I was - I just told Thorondor I could see what he was saying.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 15, 2005)

> And just because he didn't live as long as some of his forefathers doesn't mean his death was premature.



This could be interesting point of view.......  
To say that his death was premature,because he died younger than expected for a Numenorean.......

BUT:Let's not forget that by the time of Aragorn the Numenoreans were in a way assmilated by the usual people in Gondor,and much of what they had was lost.So having in mind the normal duration of a man's life in the end of the III Age we could say that Aragorn's death was anything but not premature


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## Inderjit S (Jul 15, 2005)

Yes-but Aragorn's blood was, by and large, "pure".


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 15, 2005)

> He knew that he had lived enough and felt that it was time for him,just like in the early days of the Numenoreans.
> And just because he didn't live as long as some of his forefathers doesn't mean his death was premature.
> Would you consider the cancer patient who chooses to die at home to be committing suicide?


I agree that his "mission-life" has ended, and maybe his spiritual life was ending too. But his biological life was far from over. His death was premature considered _biologically_.


> so clinging on to life when you didn't need to was showing a better example to men?


I specifically ruled out _clinging_ to life.


> Arwen is abandoned? So you want him to live forever?


No, just to avoid causing his own death as long as she is alive. I thing he has a moral obligation to her, because she surrendered her immortality for him.


> I don't think it should serve as a model for us in real life, by any means - and I don't think that Tolkien would have either. I don't think he would have advocated suicide, euthenasia, etc - and I think that he, the author, saw a distinction between Aragorn's passing and those things.


I agree, Inderjit's quote makes it pretty clear it was a unique way of dying, and not an immoral act per se. I think it was immoral only because he abandoned her in the process.


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## baragund (Jul 15, 2005)

Thorondor, how do you know Aragorn's death was premature from a biological sense? You keep saying that he caused his own death but I don't see that in the writings. 

Aragorn lived to the full allotment of years that was given to him by Eru. He did nothing to shorten that allotment and he did nothing to artificially extend that allotment like the later kings of Numenor tried to do.


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 15, 2005)

> You keep saying that he caused his own death but I don't see that in the writings.


I think that all previous conversationists agreed that he had the gift of ending his own life (in a very gracious way) and that he did use it. The following are from Annex A of the Return of the King, story of Aragorn and Arwen, but you could also consider the quote that Inderjit provided previously (bear with the translation):


> "My lord, do yo wish to leave us before time? said Arwen.
> "If I don't do it now willingly, I will be forced to do it soon anyway" said Aragorn.
> ...
> And I have been given a life three times longer than the normal life of Men, but I have been also given the gift to leave by my will and to return the gift that I received. That is why now I will sleep."


I don't think he ended his own life like any mortal would; I suppose it was a mere act of will, and not something that he did _against _himself, it was more like Eru took him away when Aragorn desired so. But should he had not willed his own death, he would have lived for many years on.


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## baragund (Jul 15, 2005)

I don't know how many more years... or months... Aragorn would have lived if he had chosen to cling to life "beyon the end of all joy". He was at the point where if had willed himself to live any longer, he would become "witless and unmanned" like the earlier kings of Numenor.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 15, 2005)

> But his biological life was far from over. His death was premature considered biologically.



Was it? He may have been able to live on for a while longer, but he did not wish to live for a few more years because he had estel, because it was his time to go, matters of biology aren't overly-important here because Aragorn's fea was in control of his hroa, and in keeping his fea unwiilingly in his hroa he would do great evil to himself and the kingdom. 



> I specifically ruled out clinging to life.



And who is anybody else to speak of what is clinging to life in matters which do not pertain to them? Aragorn knew when he had to go, or rather he was able to choose when he had to go, keeping on after he wished to depart is certainly "clinging to life" but in his case it is a life which he doesn't really wish for.



> No, just to avoid causing his own death as long as she is alive. I thing he has a moral obligation to her, because she surrendered her immortality for him.



Moral obligation? Abandoned? What if he was forced to give up his life and did not do it willingly (as was Eru's plan) and she was still alive? What then? And he speaks of a few years at the most, she still would have lived on long after that! (The Numenorean lifespan also went down as they settled in Middle-Earth, so he wouldn't have lived as long as Elendil etc.) So he had a moral obligation to contravene Eru's gifts?

Also you missed out several crucial quotes



> It was not her lot to die until she had gained all she lost.





> yet at last he felt the approach of old age and knew that the span of his life days was drawing to an end."





> Arwen knew well what he intended, and had long forseen it.





> "Not before my time" he answered "For if I will not go now, then I must go hence perforce", "And Eldarion our son is a man ripe for kingship"





> She was not yet weary of her days, and thus tasted the bitternes of mortality





> "Lady Undomiel" said Aragorn "the hour is indeed hard, yet it was made even in that day when we met under the white birches...Take counsel with yourself, beloved, and ask whether you would have indeed have me wait until I wither and fall from my high seat unmanned and witless?"





> "As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last."


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## HLGStrider (Jul 16, 2005)

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?t=3774

I said everything I wanted to say the last time this subject came up, so I'm just posting a link.

Aren't I evil?

Edit: Actually, I just realized this isn't the thread I wanted! Means I have to go look for the one I wanted. . .or try and remember exactly what I said.

I believe it was something like this:
Men are given a specific life time by Eru, at the end of which those with the gift can lie down and willingly take death rather than having to let their spirits be eroded by their bodies. The time is not to be determined by the man, Aragorn is clear that something other than himself is telling him his time is up, but these men are given the strength of will 
A. To know their time (most men don't)
B. To accept it gracefully and peacefully.

Now, I think the Numenorean kings were using unnatural methods, perhaps including their strong wills, to prolong life.

I think Aragorn could not have long prolonged his life for Arwen and the time left would not be a joy to her as it was dying time, not living time.

I think Arwen had to accept her fate, but she needed to lose what she loved most. Aragorn was tying her to life, even as he lived.


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## HLGStrider (Jul 16, 2005)

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?t=14678

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?t=13700&highlight=Aragorn+Death

Mu ha ha ha ha

Went in search of one good old thread and found two!

This is a pretty popular subject, I guess. . .I searched under my name because I knew I had posted in the thread I wanted and "Aragorn death" and I found quite a few threads, not all on this topic, but most on something close.

Enjoy.


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 16, 2005)

> So he had a moral obligation to contravene Eru's gifts?


That's almost a misiterpretation of my words, esspecially since even life itself was a gift from Eru. 
Arwen too relinquished Eru's gift of immortality and all the other traits of an elven life; and the going down itself from an elven condition to a human (or human-like) condition is at least comparable with (in my opinion _worse _than) the decrepitude that humans reach in old age. And she did _choose _and _accepted _a life of old age. In my opinion, this should be a case of quid pro quo.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 16, 2005)

> Arwen too relinquished Eru's gift of immortality and all the other traits of an elven life; and the going down itself from an elven condition to a human (or human-like) condition is at least comparable with (in my opinion worse than) the decrepitude that humans reach in old age. And she did choose and accepted a life of old age. In my opinion, this should be a case of quid pro quo



Your point still makes little sense. Arwen was able to become human because Eru willed it so. Arwen became human because she wanted to do so, it was of her own free will, Aragorn wanted to die because it was his will to do so and thus accept the gift or Eru, rather than rejecting it, and if he had stayed longer it would have been because he was coerced into doing so, though he would have thought it a noble cause, but even then it would have been useless for him to do so, because she had many years left in her, and he had only a few, possibly even months, and so he would have died before her anyway, and besides she needed to lose all she had to realise the magnitude of morality and what she gave up for him-and she knew it beforehand, before they even got married, when they first met and she loved him, she knew it would happen. 

And life is a gift from Eru, but Aragorn was able to appreciate that life by giving it up, and he would not have appreciated it he lived beyond his years. I still don't see where you are coming from.


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 16, 2005)

Inderjit, I agree with of most what you are saying and I think that the difference between us concerns how much each of us thinks that Aragorn was in debt to Arwen. In the end, it is a matter of personal perspectives on moral duty.


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## Narsil (Jul 16, 2005)

> And Atanamir lived to a great age, clinging to his life beyond the end of all joy; and he was the first of the Numenoreans to do this, refusing to depart until he was witless an unmanned, and denying to his son the kingship at the height of his days.



I don't think it's a coincidence that downfall of the Numenoreans began when the kings began clinging to life and lusting for immortality. In the end it was the reason for their ultimate destruction. 

Aragorn personified the re-emergence of the ancient line of Kings. The fact that he embraced death at the appropriate time and voluntarily passed the sceptre to his son symbolized this. It wasn't only his destiny, but his duty as well.


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## Alatar (Jul 16, 2005)

Aragorn had a feeling of seeking elsewhere, when this happendit was a sign that his youth was about to end. now with numenorians, the can pass to compete youth, to unhonnored dotage in ten years, the first sign of his ageing was when basicly he wanted to go somwhere else, he felt this and so even being youthfull, as in looked as he always did, he knew that he would age soon, so he simly died. it was natural and what Eru intended AKA he did't jump off a brigde or kill himself, he just left his body to see the other place.
Very rambiling but i try to make my point.


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## Valandil (Jul 17, 2005)

A few more thoughts I had on this:

First - do you suppose Aragorn could have just done this at any time in his adult life? Just laid himself down to die and given up his spirit? For instance -

February 26, 3019: _"The Fellowship is broken, Gandalf has fallen and now Orcs have slain Boromir and captured the two young halflings; Merry and Pippin. What's more, the Ringbearer has crossed the river and headed for Mordor practically by himself - with only Sam to protect him (the first Orc they meet will do them in - then ALL is lost!). I'm left with this smelly dwarf and air-headed elf, and everything I do is wrong! I think I'll just lay me down and die!"_

Could he have done it? I don't think so - but I could be wrong.

Tolkien doesn't spell this out, but suppose that each of these kings at some point late in life received this 'ability' - and knew that from then on, at any point, they could do it. Wouldn't that be taken as a sign from Eru: _"OK - time to come home now - if not now, then very soon. This is your chance to get your things in order and say your good-byes and let your Heir take over. Don't stretch it out now."_?

Another thought - do you think Tolkien had this 'ability' in mind for the Numenorean Kings of old from the time he invented them? Or did he first think of it in regards to Aragorn - then decided it was something which had been had - but lost? I think the latter.

Also - do you think that earlier kings of Arnor and Gondor were doing this? They were of the Faithful? Maybe another way to look at it is - was this 'gift' given to all Numenoreans, or only their Kings? From the time the Numenorean Kings began to stretch out their lives, was there nobody else until Aragorn who did this?


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 17, 2005)

The choice to end life at will was not an exclusive gift of the Dunedain:
(from the Silmarillion: chapter 17, of The Coming of Men into the West):



> But Bëor at the last had relinquished his life willingly and passed in peace


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## Valandil (Jul 17, 2005)

Thank you - I had forgotten that.

I wonder when Tolkien wrote that - and if he maybe DID have that concept long before he wrapped things up for Aragorn this way.


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## HLGStrider (Jul 18, 2005)

I'm giving you this post as an explanation, so you don't get confused, but I am merging this thread with another of the same topic!


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## Valandil (Jul 18, 2005)

Huh - what happened?  

OK then - let me answer this old question of yours:



HLGStrider said:


> I didn't find it anywhere in the books. Someone told me it... It might've been Harad... It was during an argument over whether or not Aragorn would've tried for the throne if the ring hadn't have been found. H's argument was that A was getting old and would've done it already if he was going to. I pointed out that A lived to be over 200. H pointed out that the average age of the Dunaden/Ranger chieftens before A was about 70 years (Due in part to wars, I'm sure, but some of them died of natural causes.). I have not done the math myself, but it does seem that Aragorn was an unusual case, if this is true.



If we accept the notes in "Peoples of Middle Earth" - the natural lifespans of Aragorn's ancestors was gradually and steadily decreasing, but the last ones who did not die prematurely lived to be 155. According to the Tale of Years in Appendix B of LOTR, Aragorn passed away on his 210th birthday - after ruling for the last couple years of the Third Age and about the first 120 years of the Fourth Age (24 days shy of New Year's Day, 121). So he certainly seems to have passed his 'natural' span by at least another 55 years - and was able to lay himself down at that.

As for Arwen's pain - well, few of us are ever ready when a loved one leaves us in death, but it is part of the human experience... which she signed on for.


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## Maerbenn (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: Aragorn’s premature death*

*Thorondor*, are you saying that what you quoted is a passage in _The Silmarillion_?


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## Gúthwinë (Jul 18, 2005)

Yea, and as for Arwen she went to Lothlorien or somewhere with an "L" and died on whatever that hill's name is called.


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: Aragorn’s premature death*



Maerbenn said:


> Thorondor, are you saying that what you quoted is a passage in The Silmarillion?


Thanks for pointing that out - what I initially provided was the interpretation, not the actual quote.


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