# If Isildor had destroyed the ring



## Turin (Jan 6, 2003)

If Isildor had destroyed the ring what would have happened? Would the elves still pass across the sea and would evil have been destroyed forever?


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## Celebthôl (Jan 6, 2003)

yes to both answers! yes because the elves knew that their time was over (they didnt know whether to help men or to flee thus saving their own lives) and yes evil would have been destroyed (as it was when the one ring was destroyed 3 thousand odd years later (it just coursed much more trouble by it not being destroyed by Isildur))!

Thôl


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## Maedhros (Jan 7, 2003)

> Would the elves still pass across the sea and would evil have been destroyed forever?


You are correct about the elves, unfortunately, with the destruction of the Ring, Sauron would have been destroyed but evil would still remain in ME. Have you heard of Herumor?


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## Celebthôl (Jan 7, 2003)

no who/what is that?


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## klugiglugus (Jan 8, 2003)

Sombody should have pushed him into mount doom that would have solved the problem! 

the world is always upset there is no way just throwing the ring away would have helped evil has found its way into every age one way or another...

Any how to have good you must have evil!


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## MrFrodo (Jan 8, 2003)

I mean Elrond should have thrown him so the edge......but if that had happened we would never have had that great tale of The Hobbit could have bilbo really stolen the treasure without the ring.......or of course lord of the rings.


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## klugiglugus (Jan 8, 2003)

Gollum would not have been corrupted.


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## Celebthôl (Jan 8, 2003)

and i still dont know who or what Herumor is!?

also your point integued me klugiglugus where you wrote...
"Any how to have good you must have evil!"
because when you think about it its true and weird (sp), but if there wasnt evil then good would not be needed, and so it would be how Ilúvatar/Manwe (and the other Valar at Valinor) wanted, evil wasnt natural to Arda so there was neither good nor evil, they are just what happened and how the two sides turned!

Also who says that Morgoth was evil!? i mean surely to him he felt like the goody in it all, because in a war there is really no goody and no bady, you only percieve the side you like best as being the goodys and the side you like least as being the badys!

Thôl


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## klugiglugus (Jan 8, 2003)

Well actualy saying there cannot be good with out evil is just poetic dribble! Look at the Hobbits! There is no evil in the shire and those happy little folk are very happy and joyful! What would make stronger sense would be to say good triumphs stronger over evil!

Regarding Morgoth, I always thought of Morgoth as a 3 mounth year old baby trapped in the body of a large beast, I guess its more pleasant that way.


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## Celebthôl (Jan 8, 2003)

i think it means as a whole, like elves are purely good and there is no evil...but i think that it means like goodies on one side, i.e elves, hobbit, dwarves and men, and evil on the other side, Orcs, Trolls, Wargs etc not just like for there to be good in the shire the has to be evil as evil is already in the world

Thôl


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## klugiglugus (Jan 8, 2003)

Very true.


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## Maedhros (Jan 8, 2003)

> no who/what is that?


You might want to take a look at the _Peoples of ME: The New Shadow_


> 'Why!' said Saelon. 'We have hardly begun. It was not of your orchard, nor your apples, nor of me, that you were thinking when you spoke of the re-arising of the dark tree. What you were thinking of, Master Borlas, I can guess nonetheless. I have eyes and ears, and other senses, Master.' His voice sank low and could scarcely be heard above the murmur of a sudden chill wind in the leaves, as the sun sank behind Mindolluin. *'You have heard then the name?' With hardly more than breath he formed it. 'Of Herumor'*
> Borlas looked at him with amazement and fear. His mouth made tremulous motions of speech, but no sound came from it.


He's the new evil person in town.


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## Arvedui (Sep 3, 2003)

Isildur throwing the Ring into the fires of Mount Doom would not have removed evil from the world (of Tolkien).
Evil is a coherent part of Arda, because Melkor put so much of himself in it (remember the discord of Melkor in the Music of the Ainur).
The only way to destroy evil in Arda, is to destroy Arda. 
From _Myths Transformed, Morgoth's Ring, HoME X:_ 


> To gain dominion over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth - hence all things that were born on Earth and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be 'stained.'


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## Inderjit S (Sep 3, 2003)

> like elves are purely good



No they're not.


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## Arvedui (Sep 4, 2003)

Threads don't get deleted when they get old. They stay in their section until they eventually end up in the Archives. You just have to use some effort to find them.

Normally the threads shown are from the last 30 days. On the bottom of the list, you can change that so that you can view all threads that have been started since the beginning. (You have to do that in the designated section, not in the 'view new topics'-section).

I tell you, there is a gold-mine waiting to be found!


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## Turin (Sep 4, 2003)

Archives huh, so TTF is like a library of a bunch of topics and debates, so that means that no threads ever get deleted?


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## Arvedui (Sep 4, 2003)

Some do. But those are mainly threads that serves no purpose. If you for example search for *Mouth of Sauron,* you will see that there are still three or four independent threads concerning 'Who is the Mouth of Sauron?'
None of them are deleted. The other option is to merge them, but that is not always possible to do because of the threads would then be 'un-tidy,' and we don't want that do we?

So yes, this is some sort of a library, but you are not required to be silent! 
And you are contributing to that library with each post you submit. Cool, huh?


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