# Where people's souls go after their death according to Tolkien's world?



## Gil-Galad (Nov 8, 2002)

*What happens to people's souls after their death,according to Tolkien's world?*

This thread is actually posted by Melian and I,but now she is at her home crying.
Now we are affected and grieved.We want to ask something very simple.
We know where elven's souls go after their death,but where,if anywhere,go people's souls?Tolkien doesn't clearify that.But is it somewhere mentioned and who,if any,knows where people go after their death according to Tolkien's world.

Melian and I would like this thread to be in memory of our friend
Kalina Karamineva
12.08.1983-11.05.2002


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## Melian (Nov 9, 2002)

I hope she's in a better place now...
I'd be grateful if you spare a thoguht for her.
In moments like this life seems futile.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 9, 2002)

My condolences. 

Where the souls of Men go after death is a riddle to the Elves as well as to the Valar. I daresay it is only known to Ilúvatar himself.


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## Lhunithiliel (Nov 9, 2002)

Read the debate between Finrod and Andreth and you might find some relieve.
As for Kalina, let her soul be with the light of the Flame Imperishable of Eru... wherever it may be in the Universe!


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## aDaHe (Nov 18, 2002)

*really sorry for you...*

it is hard to lose someone that you love...
but take a thought to think about your ownviews of life and why we are here...
do you both beleive that after people die that they go in sprit to a place that is waiting for them, or do you believe that after life there is nothing...

where there is hope in one point of view, there is a harsh drive in the other...take your pic but i believe that jrrt thought of the first idea and that somewhere out there he is quietly finishing his books...just my own thoughts.........


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## Orodreth (Dec 1, 2002)

I have always wondered if orcs go to Mandos as well after they die. After all, were they not once elves?


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## Khamul (Dec 1, 2002)

Deepest condolences. 

Some orcs were Elves, since they were around before the Edain, but the fact that Elves never knew where Orcs went after death, and Uruk-Hai cause me personally to believe that both Men and Elves were perverted into Orcs by Melkor. 

It is possible that they go to the Halls of Mandos, but right now I have to go to bed, and cannot research on it further, I will find some more info tomorrow afternoon. Sorry.


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## kohaku (Dec 3, 2002)

If I remeber correctly neither the valar nor the elves know where men go. But death is described as the gift of Iluvatar (sp?) to not be bound to the earth. If it is a gift, then their fate is better than staying on earth, but it is not revealed by Iluvatar. Hence, men fear death, not knowing that something better awaits them. I don't think it is the Halls of Mandos, wouldn't the valar and the elves know if they went there?


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## Athelas (Dec 6, 2002)

*This uncertainty over the fate of Human souls*

is essential to the Elf/Human romances in Tolkien; for not only is the Elf forced to become mortal and die, but she also surrenders the certainty of that afterlife. Think about that. That's even more of a sacrifice than just dying for love.


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## aDaHe (Feb 12, 2003)

*what!!!*

now lets get one thing straight...melkor did not create the uruk- hai!!!!!
saurumon did...
i do not remember the facts or quotes to say the truth, but i think that uruk - hai did have an element of men in them.


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## Inderjit S (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm sure it was Sauron who first ceived the Uruk's in the Third Age. 

And if we follow 'Myths Transfromed' then we can see that Melkor did intermingle Men with Orcs, and that Saruman was copying him. 

On men's afterlife fate, It is probable that they resided with Eru, we know that they were judged by Eru, as shown in the 'Athrabeth Firnod ah Andreth', in which he says that he will judge all men that come to him, and they will admit to him being the real god, after they had taken up Melkor worship. 

I'm sure I read somewhere (HoME 5, I think) that Nienna takes the souls of men to Eru in her black ship. I'm unsure as to whether this survived in the older legendarium.


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## aDaHe (Feb 17, 2003)

yes i thought that sauron did make the uruks as well,

but i was talking about the uruk - hai!!!!

a breed apart as it seems


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## jallan (Feb 17, 2003)

The story that after death some Men went to Valinor, some to Mandos, some given to Melko, and some lived on islands in the sea seems to be an oddity even in the "Book of Lost Tales" material.

Christopher Tolkien notes it as such.

It is a perhaps a hangover from earlier conceptions of J.R.R. Tolkien.


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## Inderjit S (Feb 18, 2003)

I'm glad that Tolkien changed Nienna's character, from the 'death-godess' that she was in BoLT to the kindly spirt she later became.

I'm sorry about your freinds tragic death. It's sad when someone passes away, at such a young age. I'm sure she is in a better place right now.


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## Eledhwen (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: really sorry for you...*



> _Originally posted by aDaHe _
> *it is hard to lose someone that you love...
> but take a thought to think about your ownviews of life and why we are here...
> do you both beleive that after people die that they go in sprit to a place that is waiting for them, or do you believe that after life there is nothing...
> ...


Like JRRT I am a devout Christian and I believe that God is good, and He is in control. Bear this in mind, Gil-Galad and Melian, as you remember your loss.

I also believe that Tolkien deliberately avoided allowing his characters to invent a mythology for men, such as those men have invented for themselves since the depths of time to make some sense of death. Throughout Tolkien's works, the fate of men after death remains a mystery, though nowhere is it said, by any character, that death is "the end" (the demise of Saruman comes closest). There is always the assumption that death is a portal to another form of existence. For the Elves, the death journey is known. For Men, it remains a mystery and a wonder to the Elves, and becomes ever more feared by men as they turn away from the light towards the darkness of Sauron.


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## Miguel (Aug 28, 2018)

I think about a paradise for them in the Land of the Sun, or they might go with Eru, or become new stars.


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