# Recycling Mithril and it's consumption?



## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 21, 2021)

Mithril wasn't consumable at all, thus even if Moria was done, all the Mithril products still couldn't cause any kind of domino effects at it's guests composed of the Free People Super Powers at once. Then what made the Mithril so insufficient, for was it still breakable under special conditions such as Wainriders' advanced weapons, Dark Magic or heavy firepower attack? Or the Mithril's use on economic made it unable to be stored, as Alcuin had mentioned that it could be currency and luxury.
Anyway, if my 1st guess was right, then this meant Mithril wasn't that invincible and couldn't be recycled, making it's shortage couldn't be preventable. Or if the 2nd guess was correct that Mithril main use was much more on economic, making it's demand much higher than it's supplies. Any thought?


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## m4r35n357 (Sep 21, 2021)

_If _I understand at least part of your question, I would guess that Mithril and items made of it would be kept and hoarded, rather than released onto an open market. This would ensure its general scarcity I think. War plunder & booty (rare) or mining (controlled by the dwarves) would be the only ways to get it.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 24, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> ...I would guess that Mithril and items made of it would be kept and hoarded, rather than released onto an open market....


I see, thus the cutoff of supplies caused by the fall of Moria wasn't the only reason. The Dwarf, or even those powers storing abundance of Mithril also did involve it's demand and supplies.


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## Alcuin (Sep 24, 2021)

On their way to Moria, Gandalf explained to the Nine Walkers that “Of [what _mithril_ the Dwarves] brought to light the Orcs have gathered nearly all, and given it in tribute to Sauron, who covets it.” (_FotR_, “Journey in the Dark”) Assuming most of that Sauron held in Barad-dûr, it was lost in the utter destruction of that tower when Gollum fell to his death,* though some might have remained at Dol Guldur. 

There was also some stock of _mithril_ in Minas Tirith: the helms of the Tower Guard were of that metal. Near the end of Appendix A, Tolkien writes that, “After the fall of Sauron, Gimli … and his people … [f]or Minas Tirith … forged gates of _mithril_ and steel to replace those broken by the Witch-king.” That _mithril_ might have come from Moria in Middle-earth, or it might have come from Númenor, where it was also found. 

At some point in the Fourth Age†, the Dwarves returned to Khazad-dûm and resumed their works, presumably including mining. Balin’s expedition “found truesilver,” _mithril_, in the short time that they were there. With the Balrog gone, the Dwarves were free to begin mining _mithril_ once more, provided they could pump out the water that flooded the lower levels. 

───◊───

* This “lost” _mithril_ could of course be extracted from the ruins of Barad-dûr – _if_ anyone fancied digging about the place. 
† Tolkien considered that the son of Thorin III Stonehelm (son of Dain II Ironfoot) might have been Durin VII and Last, in which case Durin the Last is the Dwarf-king who returned to Khazad-dûm, possibly in the second or third century of the Fourth Age; but I don’t know whether he kept to this proposition or not.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 25, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> ...gathered nearly all, and given it in tribute to Sauron, who covets it.”


OMG, but here came to a big fog, how did Sauron get it? Sauron could use Mithril for at least he got Dark Numenorean to provide Mithril industry craftsman but as we all already knew that apart from the Wainriders and the One Ring, the Dark Forces were mostly nothing but a piece of cake in almost all conflicts. Or were there any other sources mentioning or implying that Sauron ordered all his combat forces to decrease the Free Peole's Mithril storage for purposes at any costs during every military operation? 

I knew that Sauron did scourge Moria's hinterland during the War to retake the Rings of 2nd Age, the highest chance to destroy the Free People Mithril craftsman industry in ME as a result, and the Free People might not take it serious for Numenor produced Mithril, making them ignoring to replenish those Mithril relative industry resources such as craftsman personnel and so on. The Balrog attack on Moria might provide underground supplies of MIthril into Sauron though I got no direct proof, correct me if I was wrong. Or were their any key accidents reversing the Free People control for Mithril?


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## Alcuin (Sep 26, 2021)

If I follow your discussion correctly, Hisoka Morrow, I believe we can set forward some ideas with reasonable certainty that they are reliable.

Mithril was found both beneath Caradhras (Barazinbar) and in Númenor. It isn’t clear who found it first, but my bet would be on Durin’s Folk. In either case, mithril was available in Middle-earth by the middle of the Second Age, if not from before the beginning of the First Age (when the Noldor returned to Middle-earth).
Nenya is the only one of the Great Rings said to be forged from mithril. (If others were, too, we are not told.) Since Celebrimbor made the Three Rings himself and Sauron never touched them, and Celebrimbor had close relations with the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm, numbering its King Durin III among his friends and allies, we can safely assume the mithril that went into making Nenya came from the mines of the Dwarves.
”Sauron … covet[ed]” mithril according to Gandalf, but this statement was made at end of the Third Age. Until the beginning of the third millennium of the Third Age, after Durin’s Bane took control of Moria, it is unlikely Sauron had any sizable source of mithril except during his brief sojourn in Númenor, when Ar-Pharazôn could supply him. I suppose you are correct in asserting the King’s Men of Númenor (the Black Númenóreans of the Third Age) might also have delivered mithril to Sauron, but since he was regarded as an enemy before being taken as “hostage” to Númenor by Ar-Pharazôn, even the more wicked of the later Kings of Númenor would likely have regarded giving, selling, or sending mithril to Mordor a grave offense.
The Númenórean stocks of the metal in Middle-earth were likely to be relatively small: most of it would have naturally remained in Númenor as art, armour, and so forth: little of the Númenórean mithril was likely to find its way eastward to Middle-earth, though clearly some did.
There was one King of Númenor so taken by mithril that his obsession with it became his regal name, Tar-_Telemmaitë_, “King Silver-handed”. He was the fifteenth king of Númenor, the grandson of Tar-Atanamir, who began the Númenórean apostasy by refusing to lay down his life in old age, the same king to whom the Valar sent an embassy in an attempt to reason with him.
After the Downfall of Númenor, the _only_ source of additional mithril was Khazad-dûm. Once Durin’s Bane drove out the Dwarves, there were _no_ further additions to the stocks of mithril: The Orcs didn’t mine for it, but rather gathered what they could as tribute to Sauron.
Whatever remained outside Sauron’s possession at the end of the Third Age was in Dwarvish possession (the mithril coat of ring-mail Thorin gave Bilbo, for instance); with the Dúnedain, mostly in Gondor, where it was far less likely to have been looted than in Arnor; or various items in possession of the Eldar, such as Galadriel’s Ring of Power. My guess would be that by that time, the only unworked mithril was under Sauron’s control; the rest of it was likely in one worked form or another, so that making Bilbo’s mithril coat probably required melting down and reworking some other item or group of items.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 26, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> ...Once Durin’s Bane drove out the Dwarves, there were _no_ further additions to the stocks of mithril: The Orcs didn’t mine for it, but rather gathered what they could as tribute to Sauron....


Taking the account of Balrog's occupation over Moria, could the orcs start being able to mine it? Otherwise we knew that orcs records of military sucked so much, making them hardly plunder. Or did "your orcs" mean all kinds of Dark Lord's combat forces such as those much better like the Wainriders and so on, if yes then it's reasonable, otherwise we could only infer that the Mithril was so easy to load that the puny orcs could plunder it even in a defeated operation.


Alcuin said:


> ..when Ar-Pharazôn could supply him. I suppose you are correct in asserting the King’s Men of Númenor (the Black Númenóreans of the Third Age) might also have delivered mithril to Sauron...


But Sauron had become the Prime Minister of Numenor, he must have much larger authority to command any kind of resources than his earlier period in Numenor. Or strictly speaking, Sauron's control over Numenor was limited, making him unable to store military resources in ME to support his prepared operation to conquer ME after the Numenor expedition against Valinor. For instance, the Council might still veto Sauron's proposal to increase ME's military power and so on, in spite of they're in agreement to persecute the Faithfuls.


Alcuin said:


> ...time, the only unworked mithril was under Sauron’s control; the rest of it was likely...


Thus, Sauron wasted the Dark Numenoreans craftsmanship in Mithril, or there're no Mithril craftsman personnel from Dark Numenoreans under Sauron's command


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