# Finduilas-Túrin, a supposedly underdeveloped romance?



## Beleg (Apr 23, 2003)

It has been made clear to us that Túrin really loved Finduilas. 



> *Then the heart of Finduilas was turned from Gwindor* (who because of his pains in Angband was half crippled)* and her love was given to Túrin; and Túrin loved her but spoke not, being loyal to Gwindor. Then Finduilas being torn in heart became sorrowful; and she grew wan and silent.*



Obviously this caused great grief to both their hearts. 



> And he being troubled by this new grief (for ever the love of Finduilas that he would not take grew greater)



We are hinted/implied that they were friends?



> But after a while his madness left him, and he came to Hauð-en-Ellas and there sat and pondered all his deeds. And he cried upon Finduilas to bring him counsel;



Thus we also glean that Finduilas was wise. Love and Understanding/Friendship are too most important aspects of a relationship.
So don’t you think that Finduilas would have been a perfect wife for Túrin? 

Also I have also felt that the romance between Túrin and Finduilas has always been underestimated. I often feel that this romance could have been further enhanced; Túrin stay in Nargothrond should/could have been further explained. We get only fleeting glimpses of their Romantic feelings and their love for each other is mentioned barely. Don’t you think that like the Tale Of Beren and Luthien, their tale should have further enhanced, their relationship further explained, and most importantly the character of Finduilas should have further developed. Perhaps Tolkien could have written a separate lay on this? We know Finduilas is beautiful, she is a hot Elvin chick, she might be wise, she gets depressed but that’s all. Unlike other major Heroine’s of Tolkien fandom, her character I feel is under-developed. Even Arwen’s character is better explained. 
I hope to goodness there are some fellow Finduilas/Túrin fans here…But after a while his madness left him, and he came to Hauð-en-Ellas and there sat and pondered all his deeds. And he cried upon Finduilas to bring him counsel;
So what do you all say? Are you satisfied with the state their relationship has been explained? Did you want to see more Finduilas/Túrin interaction? 


Another thought: Narn Húrin is a tragedy. But what type of Tragedy do you think it is? Is it a romantic one, a social one, a political one or a mixture of all? Do you think that Túrin was unlucky in every aspect of his life or was he just unlucky in one special department?

Another, Another Thought: Do you think Túrin found Contentment in his relationship with Niniel? Was he fine with it? Did he forget Finduilas? One more thing, we know that Túrin assured Gwindor that he had no intentions of marrying Finduilas, let alone anyone, for he didn’t want anyone else to come under the curse he was. 



> Finduilas indeed I love, but fear not!* Shall the accursed wed, and give as morrowgift his curse to one that he loves? Nay, not even to one of his own people.*



Note the stress on *even his own people. But…*



> Turambar still remained at peace and went not to war. His heart turned to Níniel, and he asked her in marriage;



What was the cause behind this change of mind? Did Túrin love Niniel more then Finduilas? (Which I somehow feel is not true) or anything else? Did he by any chance felt as if it was his duty to marry Finduilas? (You know any vibes of the sub-conscious, like Niniel got when she first heard about Túrin in Brethil.)


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## Inderjit S (Apr 24, 2003)

> So don’t you think that Finduilas would have been a perfect wife for Túrin?




YES. She was the perfect match for him and him for her. They would've made a perfect couple. I believe that them not falling n love was a consequence of the marring of Arda, though Tolkien comments that as that any Elf-Man unions were a consequence of the marring. But I believe that after the Dagorath and after Arda is healed, Turin and Finduilas will be together, and live happily ever after.



> Did Túrin love Niniel more then Finduilas?




No Turin's and Nineiel's love wasn't 'pure' in the sense that turin's and Finduilas's love was beautiful and sorrowful.


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## YayGollum (Apr 24, 2003)

Yikes! Lots of questions! 

1. Sure.

2. No. Ick. Noone would be a good wife for him. Like the quotes say. He's an evil and cursed type guy. It would be stupid for anyone to have anything to do with him.

3. Yes, I am satisfied with the state their relationship has been explained. I never was a fan of either of them. Whoops! No, I did not especially care to see more Finduilas/Túrin interaction? They're boring. *hides*

4. I'd go for social?  You know. Sure, it's a mixture. Different people look at it in different ways. No, Turin wasn't unlucky in every single way. He just ran into some unlucky circumstances. The guy had a lot going for him.

5. Sure. How would anyone be able to know if he forgot that Finduilas person? oh well. 

6. Sure, I'd either say that he was a bigger fan of this human lady than he was of that elf chick or he was just a bigger fan of marrying an already unmarried lady. If he thought that it was his duty to marry someone named Finduilas, he would have done it. You know those boring heroic types.


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## Arvedui (Sep 28, 2005)

I think that the answer to all your questions concerning Túrin & Finduilas can be found in the last words of Gwindor:


> Let bearing pay for bearing! But ill-fated was mine, and vain is thine; for my body is marred beyond healing, and I must leave Middle-earth. And though I love thee, son of Húrin, yet i rue the day that I took thee from the Orcs. But for thy prowess and thy pride, still I should have love and life, and Nargothrond should yet stand a while. Now if thou love me, leave me! Haste thee to Nargothrond, and save Finduilas. And this last I say to thee: she alone stands between thee and thy doom. If thou fail her, it shall not fail to find thee! Farewell!


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## Ingwë (Nov 5, 2005)

> What was the cause behind this change of mind? Did Túrin love Niniel more then Finduilas? (Which I somehow feel is not true) or anything else? Did he by any chance felt as if it was his duty to marry Finduilas? (You know any vibes of the sub-conscious, like Niniel got when she first heard about Túrin in Brethil.)


I don't think that turin loved Niniel more than Finduilas. Niniel was his sister though he didn't know that. I think that there is relationship betwenn Turin and Niniel. He loved her and she loved him. She wanted to be with him. i think that Turin knew that he cannot marry Finduilas - it was just impossible. She was daughter of a King of the Elves; he was son of captured King without realm. At least he thought that he is not good enough for her. 
I think that he married Niniel because she loved him and he didn't want to see her unhappy. He knew that Finduilas is lost and married Niniel. And we musn't forget the he met her near Fin's grave  and probably he saw that as a sign


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## Starflower (Nov 7, 2005)

I don't think there was any question of Turin loving Niniel MORE than Finduilas, he specifically refused to give in to his feelings towards Finduilas out of respect for Gwindor and also he did not want Finduilas to fall under his curse. But the case of Niniel.... Glaurung's curse was the reason these two fell in love in the first place, not knowing that they were brother and sister, they felt instant connection between one another and could not help it. 

so, Turin would not have loved Niniel more or less than Finduilas, only differently. He was an honourable man and did not want to destroy his friend Gwindor's life and happiness by taking her away from him


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## Hammersmith (Nov 7, 2005)

YayGollum said:


> No. Ick. Noone would be a good wife for him. Like the quotes say. He's an evil and cursed type guy. It would be stupid for anyone to have anything to do with him.



Yet as Arvedui rightly points out, Yaygollum,

_"...save Finduilas. And this last I say to thee: she alone stands between thee and thy doom. If thou fail her, it shall not fail to find thee!"_

So doesn't that mean that his failure in this regard led to the fulfillment of the curses? Maybe if he had married Finduilas she would have redeemed him (as obviously he couldn't then marry his sister) and he would have killed Glaurung outright and been as great a hero as Beren. Maybe it would even have been his offspring sailing west to beg the help of the Valar. Far fetched, but it's a curious "what-if"


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