# How did Gollum get across the Bridge?



## Helcaraxë (Dec 6, 2003)

When Gollum followed the Fellowship through Moria, how did he get across the bridge of Khazad-Dum after it was broken?

--MB


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## Inderjit S (Dec 6, 2003)

How did the Moria Orks get to Lothlórien (Since Gollum was seen with them) and latter in Rohan under Mahur? The West-Gate was also cast down by the Fellowship, and the East-Gate was destroyed too by the Watcher) 

Evidently there were other ways out of Moria as well as the East-West gates that Gollum didn't know of. Aragorn was keen to get to Lothlórien because of the Orks, so he may have known about another way out as he had been in Moria before. 

So the Moria Orks must have delved other secret ways out (Or there may have been secret ways out made by the Dwarves), as well as main East-West gates.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 6, 2003)

Is is really highly improbable for everybody living in Moria,not to delve some secrets ways out.
The dwarves really were protected if the gates were closed,but who knew for sure?Just like in the case of Gondolin,there was only one way to get in or to get out of there,but also there was a secret way.I am sure the dwarves delved some secret exits,in terms they were besieged from both sides of Moria-East and West.


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## GuardianRanger (Dec 6, 2003)

I also look at it from a tactical standpoint.

Why would the dwarves build a kindom with *only* two ways in or out. If they were under seige, you would only need to camp your army at both entrances/exits. For that reason, I believe there had to be other entrances/exits. Some were probably kept secret for a reason.


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## Lantarion (Dec 6, 2003)

All good points.
And also Gandalf's reference to the ancient creatures living far under the settlement of Khazad-dûm might imply that they delved other ways all the way out of the mountain.


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## Celebthôl (Dec 6, 2003)

Yeah, we havent explored the fact that A) He may have crossed BEFORE the fellowship and B) He may have climbed along the roof. . .


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## Inderjit S (Dec 6, 2003)

But the Fellowship cast down the East Gate when the left and he came with the Moria Orks. (He climbed up the Tree that the Hobbits were staying in and Haldir saw him amongst the Moria Orks. Of course it could be argued that he simply joined the Moria Orks latter on when they were marching to Lothlórien.

And why would he cross before the Fellowship when he was *following* them? Of course, it could be argued that he realised they were heading for the East-Gate and went quietly before them.


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## Celebthôl (Dec 6, 2003)

When did they cast down the east gate? So far as i know the doors were destroyed and they wanted to leg it to Lorien ASAP?


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## Helcaraxë (Dec 6, 2003)

Ind, I don't recall them destroying the east gate either. Perhaps you're thinking of when the watcher in the water piled up all those stones and trees in front of the west gate....?

--MB


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## Lantarion (Dec 7, 2003)

> There was a guard of orcs crouching in the shadows behind the great door-posts towering on either side, but the gates were shattered and cast down. Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath.


LotR; FotR: 'The Bridge of Khazad-dûm'

But I don't know how the Gate crumbled and was broken. Maybe it was because of the trembling of the whole place because of the Balrog's girth?


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## Ravenna (Dec 7, 2003)

We know that the gates were shattered, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the entire doorway was blocked. The way I read Lantarion's quote is that the gates were broken before the fellowhsip reached them, so if they could get out, so, logically could Gollum have done the same.


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## Mindy_O_Lluin (Dec 8, 2003)

I don't see why all the orcs and Gollum could not have gotten out thru Zirak-Zigal as Gandalf did. 

And there were windows.

But since Gollum was right on their tail when they got to the edge of Lorien, maybe he had crossed the bridge BEFORE the Fellowship, and lay in wait for them somewhere near the east gate.


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## Lantarion (Dec 8, 2003)

Mindy do you mean that the Fellowship should have climbed the Endless Stair and died so that Gwaihir could have sent them on their way?!  
Hehe sorry.

But what do you mean by "I don't see why all the orcs and Gollum could not have gotten out thru Zirak-Zigal as Gandalf did"? 

Haha as for the windows-point, IIRC they were very, very high up and could not be used as exits. 

Oh and that last point of yours was argued earlier.. I guess it was possible, but there was no indication that a) Gollum knew where the Fellowship was headed or b) that Gollum could have slipped past all the Orcs on the trail of the Fellowship, as well as the Balrog!
But it's not impossible.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 8, 2003)

Since I am lazy, I wont run and get my books. But I remember the trolls of Moria bearing great slabs of stone and laying them down over the flames for the orcs to cross. I have always figured that they did something similar to cross the broken bridge (it couldnt have been that far of a distance, it states how it jutted out after it broke). Gollum probably crossed that way, sneaky as he is!


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## Flammifer (Dec 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion_
> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> There was a guard of orcs crouching in the shadows behind the great door-posts towering on either side, but the gates were shattered and cast down. Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath.
> ...



I always believed that the East Gate was cast down since the Battle of Nanduhirion/Azanulbizar (sp?). Seeing as Orcs don't seem the type to repair things, I'd say the Gate has been broken for a while when the Fellowship passed through it.

Yep I also like Lanty's idea that the trembling of the Balrog made the gates break. Maybe it was Gandalf's bridge-breaking spell also? Or, slightly more far-fetched, when Glamdring broke the Balrog's molten-sword into pieces, the fragments might have even crashed against the gate and broken it that way.


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## Mindy_O_Lluin (Dec 12, 2003)

> But what do you mean by "I don't see why all the orcs and Gollum could not have gotten out thru Zirak-Zigal as Gandalf did"?



I just mean that it was an additional exit from Moria.

And, at least in the movie, the Orcs and Gollum can scale vertical walls, and therefore reach the windows.

Then, don't forget that crack in the side of the mountain that PJ produced to bring the camera through at the beginning of TTT.


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