# kili and Fili



## MatthewLover (Jun 13, 2003)

Who was sad that Kili and fili dided in The Hobbit?


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## Dragon (Jun 13, 2003)

I was


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## Courtney (Jun 13, 2003)

I was surprised that anyone died in the Hobbit, since it was a children's story... I thought it would be like Disney movies where there's never any blood or gore or anything... silly me... those books about hobbits just got serious-er and serious-er...


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 14, 2003)

Couldn't agree more... They seemed young... too young


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## Lantarion (Jun 14, 2003)

*sniff*
*weep*
*cry*
*bawl*


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## YayGollum (Jun 15, 2003)

Sure, I guess it was supposed to be sad, but I thought it was worse when Thorin died. That guy had more of a personality than the other two.


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## Elendil3119 (Jun 15, 2003)

I agree, Yay. Thorin's death was much more sad than Fili and Kili's, in my opinion.


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## Mahal (Jun 16, 2003)

Yes I also found that when Thorin died it was sadder then Fili and Kili...But is was all sad


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## Celebthôl (Jun 16, 2003)

Nah Kili and Fili's death were sadder, i mean they didnt even get properly mentioned, it was "Kili and Fili are dead" and that was it pretty much...they deserved more than that


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## Dragon (Jun 17, 2003)

I thought it was sad when both of them died, but I can't say which one was sadder...


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## YayGollum (Jun 17, 2003)

I don't see why they deserved more than that when we didn't get to know them as well as the superly cool Thorin. oh well. Thorin got a death scene. Thorin looked achingly cool when he jumped into the fight. Fili and Kili were just two extras in the background. Sure, it would have been achingly cool if all of the Dwarves got to grow achingly cool personalities, but oh well. *hides*


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## Flame of Udûn (Jun 18, 2003)

Why do you always hide?


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## Celebthôl (Jun 18, 2003)

Coz he likes to be like Gollum 

Yeah i kinda agree YAY, but if Mr Tolkien was to build out all the characters personalities etc, the book would be twice as thick


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## Theoden_king (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *i mean they didnt even get properly mentioned *



This is why I didn't really find their deaths sad at all.




> _Originally posted by Courtney _
> *I was surprised that anyone died in the Hobbit, since it was a children's story... I thought it would be like Disney movies where there's never any blood or gore or anything...*



Yes but this is what makes The Hobbit so much better than any Disney story, it isn't completely sugar coated.


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## Celebthôl (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Theoden_king _
> *Yes but this is what makes The Hobbit so much better than any Disney story, it isn't completely sugar coated. *



This is what makes it so much better than Disney


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## Theoden_king (Jun 18, 2003)

Yes thats what I said.





> _ Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *but if Mr Tolkien was to build out all the characters personalities etc, the book would be twice as thick
> *



And the ending would have been more upsetting what with more characters who you really got to know dying.


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## Celebthôl (Jun 18, 2003)

I was just agreeing   

zacly and its a childs book, so well it would leave all the kids distraught


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## Lantarion (Jun 18, 2003)

> but if Mr Tolkien was to build out all the characters personalities etc, the book would be twice as thick


Well I wouldn't mind.
Many of Tolkien's characters are achingly underdeveloped. It wouldn't have hurt Tollers to progress them a little more.


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 18, 2003)

Tollers? I'm guessing you mean Tolkien... No it wouldn't hurt, but as a childrens book, you can't get too detailed with family backround and stuff...


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## Eliot (Jun 19, 2003)

The first time I read _The Hobbit_ I was devastated when Fili and Kili died. I was so sad. They were some of my favorite characters. Though, Thorin's death was a lot sadder. He had to die just to get what he came on a journey for: the Arkenstone. I always feel so angry at Bilbo for giving the Arkenstone to the Elvenking.


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## Manveru (Jun 19, 2003)

They were so YOUNG... *weep*


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## YayGollum (Jun 19, 2003)

I don't see why that The Hobbit book would be so much bigger if Tolkien made Fili and Kili's personalities as developed as, maybe, Balin's? That guy gets to show more of a personality that plenty of others. Like Bombur. It doesn't take too much to show a bit of a chacter's personality. The only thing especially original about Fili and Kili was that they were young. Craziness. oh well.


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## Dragon (Jun 19, 2003)

*sigh*

they didn't really do much but follow orders...


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## Manveru (Jun 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dragon:_
> **sigh*
> 
> they didn't really do much but follow orders...*


Come on...
They were very busy (i.e. scouting the terrain--since everybody agreed on that Bilbo didn't manage it too well--> remember 'spying' on trolls...it was them who found the cave in the Misty Mountains), but Tolkien didn't give them first part to play (that's a fact--too bad I think)


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## Mithrandread (Jul 16, 2003)

I was sad when all three died. Yes, Fili and Kili were not as well known as some of the other characters, but they had their part in the Tale, small though it was. I have seen references to their age, and though they were the youngest of the lot (of Dwarves), they were fairly old by our count. It seemed from some of the comments that people thought that they were teenagers or very young adults.

Fili 2859-2941--age 82

Kili 2864-2941--age 77

So, hopefully, they had a rich and long life before that last adventure, eh?


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## YayGollum (Jul 16, 2003)

Sure. But then, it had to be more sad to see the achingly cool Thorin die, right? just the fact that Fili and Kili were eighty-two and seventy-seven doesn't mean that they were just as fun to read about. *sniff*


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## Rhiannon (Jul 16, 2003)

I was sad when all three died. I didn't like it at all. (I was....five, the first time I heard it).


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## Mithrandread (Jul 17, 2003)

Yay, I think you are right. Since more of Thorin is known than Fili and Kili, his death is likely to be felt more keenly, even by those who didn't admire him. I must admit that though I was sad when all three died, Thorin's death was a bit harder to take, though I have mixed feelings about him.

It's a pity that these two characters were not more fully developed. It would have been interesting to hear more of their tale. From the little that is known, their lives had to be filled with adventures and hardships, and it would have been fascinating to have seen things from their point of view.


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## YayGollum (Jul 17, 2003)

Well, I thought that we already know pretty much everything that happened to all of those Dwarves. They hung out at the Lonely Mountain, had to leave thanks to some lizard, they hung out in the Blue Mountains to mine coal, and there was that thing at Moria. Can't think of too many adventurous type things that Fili and Kili could have run into. Anyways, I don't understand this too much. Why does not everyone like Thorin? He's the coolest. My favorite character from that The Hobbit book.


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## ely (Jul 20, 2003)

I liked Thorin a lot. And I was very sad when he died. Of course I wasn't happy about Kili and Fili dying - I was sad, too. But Thorin was more like a main character, he should have gone, taken back his kingdom and lived happily ever after. 

Thorin was really cool, someone who will be remembered. But there were just too many other dwarves - it was kind of hard not to mix them up and remember who said or did what (for me, at least).


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## YayGollum (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for that! Thorin is achingly cool! The few people who don't like him say that he's not cool because he's too arrogant and stubborn for them. Craziness. He's an achingly interesting character. Fun to read about. Anyways, sure, I guess I can see why some people might get some of the Dwarves mixed up. Not a lot do very many noteworthy things. The ones that I mostly remember are Thorin, Bombur, Balin, and Dori. Fili and Kili were less memorable than those guys. *hides*


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## Captain (Jul 23, 2003)

Fili and Kili were not "extras". They defended Thorin with shield and body.


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## YayGollum (Jul 23, 2003)

Who said they were extras? oh well. I don't think that anyone would feel like disagreeing. I was just saying that it makes more sense to feel a little more sad about Thorin having to die.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Jul 23, 2003)

Someone said that 82 and 77 was not young, but I beg to differ. These are Dwarves we are talking about! A normal life span for one of the Naugrim is 250 years, and even then the Kings of the Line of Durin could live well past 300!

So 82 and 77... that was like someone dying in their late 20's or early 30's. Thats pretty young.

And Dáin II, the slayer of Azog, he was only sixty-something. That was like a 13 year old killing the biggest Orc menace in history. No wonder they all loved him afterwards.

*hides like Yay Gollum*


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## Mithrandread (Jul 24, 2003)

I thank you, Dáin Ironfoot I, for giving me a Dwarvish perspective on age, for it was I who wrote that post...I stand corrected!


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## Chymaera (Jul 26, 2003)

No need to worry, Mithrandread
your facts are correct that counts for a lot.

I just wanted to point out that from the Appendix that Gimli remembered that he had wanted to join Thorin's company too. And that they considered him too young at 58.

I had always liked that small connection; that Fili and Kili and Gimli had very similar names (being cousins and all) I remember noticeing that from the first time I read the book, giving me another link back to the Hobbit.


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## Lady Legolas (Jul 28, 2003)

I think it was sadder when Thorin died then Fili, Kili. I thought Thorin should have lived on since he was going to be the king. It was still sad when Fili and Kili died.


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## jimmyboy (Aug 8, 2003)

Eh, to me Thorin dying was just him getting what he deserved. I don't like Thorin at all. Sure, he's an interesting character, but he's an arrogant, stubborn, self-centered jerk. It's mainly his fault that the war (The Battle of Five Armies) happened, because of his greed and selfishness. Also, he gave Gandalf a great bit of grief before the great journey to Lonely Mountain even began, mostly because of his pride and selfishness.

Ugh; I don't like Thorin at all. Good riddance! I'm just glad Balin, a much more worthy Dwarf, didn't die in that battle. Now he was a good guy. My favorite of all Dwarves, Balin is.


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## Feanorian (Aug 8, 2003)

> Eh, to me Thorin dying was just him getting what he deserved. I don't like Thorin at all. Sure, he's an interesting character, but he's an arrogant, stubborn, self-centered jerk. It's mainly his fault that the war (The Battle of Five Armies) happened, because of his greed and selfishness. Also, he gave Gandalf a great bit of grief before the great journey to Lonely Mountain even began, mostly because of his pride and selfishness.



So what if he gave Gandalf grief.......Gandalf could be quite pesky at times if you think about it. Thorin's character is supposed to make you either love him or hate him.....you can't have mixed emoitions.......just like Feanor. Thorin was a brilliant character.


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## YayGollum (Aug 8, 2003)

*Gasp!* Poor Thorin! He was cool! How was that Battle Of Five Armies thing his fault? I thought it was the fault of the evil type people who showed up and felt like fighting. oh well. You don't like the arrogant and self-centered and proud and stubborn types? sorry about that. I happen to think that they're more fun to read about than the boring and selfless types. Ick. Anyways, Balin was worthy in what way? Worthy to get to live longer? just wondering. Thorin was more memorable for me. *sniff*


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## Feanorian (Aug 8, 2003)

> Anyways, Balin was worthy in what way? Worthy to get to live longer? just wondering. Thorin was more memorable for me. *sniff*




I agree....I didnt even member Balin right off the back when I read LOTR, granted there was some time inbetween the two readings but still I would have remembered Thorin. Thorin is definitly the one I remembered most of the dwarves...as you (yaygollum) would say.........he is achingly cool


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## jallan (Aug 17, 2003)

Courtney posted:


> was surprised that anyone died in the Hobbit, since it was a children's story... I thought it would be like Disney movies where there's never any blood or gore or anything...



Well, I we don't actually see much of the blood and gore in _The Hobbit_. Also some Disney films like _Bambi_ and _The Lion King_ don't avoid the subject of death of "good guys" either.


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