# Nationality



## e.Blackstar

This is kind of a weird idea, and I'm not entirely certain if it's in the right forum, but I was inspired by a conversation in a completely different thread  and I was wondering...

What nationalities are all y'all?

Like, obviously you're from one country and whatnot, but I mean like ancestor-ness. (*whispers* I think this might win a prize for most-ignored thread)

For instance: I am from the USofA, but I am about 1/4 Irish, 1/4 English, 1/4 German, 1/8 Welsh, and 1/8 Danish. Huzzah for mongrels!


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## Confusticated

I too have nothing bigger than a 4th.

Racially I am Mexican, Norwegian, German, rest is Scottish, English, Irish... and mystery who knows what else for sure.

I've been told I look Russsian though, don't know how much truth is in it (judge for yourself)... though none of that blood runs through me.


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## e.Blackstar

You DO look a bit Russian. Hmmm...


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## Hammersmith

1/4 English, 1/4 French, 1/4 German, 1/8 Irish, 1/8 Greek, with English and Canadian nationality. Don't ask


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## Wraithguard

17% English 32% French 28% Greek 8% German 15% Polish 

100% European
100% In America and American accent

Don't think less of me because of my large French percentage! Nah, I'm kidding even though I still have no clue where the Polish came from.


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## yhwh1st

1/8 American Indian, 1/4 Jewish, 1/8 Syrian(sp?), don't know how much for the rest but, German, Irish, French, Danish, and Norwegian.



The Jewish and Syrian is a wierd mix, I know.




Edit:The Norwegian is 1/8, I figured it out.



Interesting fact: My great-grandpa was Syrian, his son (my grandpa) is as white as can be. My mom, aunt, and uncle are also white, and of the 8 of us cousins only one of us got the dark skin. My cousin Steve. I'm white as a ghost. j/k but nearly.


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## yhwh1st

Rai, where did you get _those_ percentages?


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## baragund

I'm American with 100% German ancestry on my Dad's side of the family. My Mom's side is half Irish and half Alsatian (For you geography buffs, it's a region that goes back and forth between France and Germany.)


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## Led Zeppelin

I'm from Canada, my dad's side is 50%Irish and 50%English, my mom's side is about 50% Russian about 30%German and about 20% of everythting lol.


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## HLGStrider

If I had to trace it back, I'm from everywhere in Western Europe including every bit of the British Isles.

My family name (G.) is basically English, though I have heard it called Irish to. . .and it could be because my great-grandfather on my dad's side was named Riley. He came back from WWII to Britian, burned down a house, got arrested for arson, and died in prison. Fire and G's do not mix.

My dad's mom was a Wietsel (white-sail) which I am not sure how to spell. I always assumed it was German, but I have heard more recently that it is actually Welsh, which means I am probably spelling it wrong.

I don't know much else about that side of the family.

My mom's dad is a McCall. He says it is Scotch-Irish (some Scotts got banished to Ireland and made themselves somewhat at home before moving over here to Missouri and making themselves at home here before Great-Grandpa got to Oregon with the other great depression workers building rail roads).

My mom's mom was a Roth. This is Swiss, but also maybe Jewish. Grandma says it was once Rothchild and was changed to avoid anti-semitism. 

My grandpa's mother was an Olson. This is something Scandanavian.

My grandma's mother was a Barnes. This is also something Scandanavian. 

I think that's it. . .though if you trace the Roth's back a bit you do get to the Rogers. I have a relative in Fox's book of Martyrs on that side.


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## Talierin

Danish, German, prolly some Swiss-German, English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, and I think a little dutch somewheres back there. My last name, Osterwald, is German and means East of the Woods. Our crest goes something like this:

Osterwald - Neutchatel. D'arg. a trois pins de sin., ranges sur une terrasse du meme. C,: un sauvage iss. de carn., ceint et cour. de lierre, tenant un pin arr. de sin., pose sur son epaule

have fun translating 







heheheh, kidding..... it translates out to:

Osterwald - Neutchatel (Neutchatel is a beautiful town on the edge of a lake in Switzerland - my grandmother went there and when she mentioned her name they kinda treated her like royalty, don't know what that's about, heh). Composed of silver with three pine trees from Sinople (area of the Black Sea region of Turkey), arranged on one foreground of the same. Crest: one springing, wild feline animal, that may be hunted, surrounded by ivy (mantle of crest), defending one pine, uprooted, from Sinople, lain on its shoulder.

Aka it's three pine trees on a shield with a silver background with one pine tree on top with a large cat of some sort, surrounded by ivy.


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## Hammersmith

Hammersmith said:


> 1/4 English, 1/4 French, 1/4 German, 1/8 Irish, 1/8 Greek, with English and Canadian nationality. Don't ask


 
As we're going into ancestry a bit further, I'll share the useless knowledge that my family motto is "_Fidem Rectumque Colendo_", or "_Cultivating Fidelity And Rectitude_"

So there.


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## HLGStrider

Talierin said:


> Osterwald - Neutchatel (Neutchatel is a beautiful town on the edge of a lake in Switzerland - my grandmother went there and when she mentioned her name they kinda treated her like royalty, don't know what that's about, heh). Composed of silver with three pine trees from Sinople (area of the Black Sea region of Turkey), arranged on one foreground of the same. Crest: one springing, wild feline animal, that may be hunted, surrounded by ivy (mantle of crest), defending one pine, uprooted, from Sinople, lain on its shoulder.


 
Tal, this is scary, but we are either related or our ancestors were kids together. 

Not the whole crest, but I mentioned the Roths. That's where they are from, and supposedly they were also in "upper management."


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## Wraithguard

yhwh1st said:


> Rai, where did you get _those_ percentages?


 
I traced back my ancestory through a few areas and converted fractions to percentages and came out with this. I'm still terribly confused on the Polish because both my parents parents have a total of 0%. Rather odd but not too disturbing.

My crest is a Black Dragon on a blue crest surrounded by a silver wreath of thorns, with 2 small white stars and one large white star with a slight blue tint in the center above the dragon (all 3 stars). There are also 2 crossed, blood-soaked axes beneath the dragon.

Decifered, the Dragon represents Immortality, Power, and Riteousness. The Silver wreath of thorns represents Chaos as a whole and the pain it causes. The crossed, blood-soaked axes represents Justice upon which we are based. The three stars: the left represents Comradery, which is considered a brotherhood, the right represents Apathy, which is where my motto comes from, and the middle, large star represents Order, for without structure the world is nothing but limbo.

Family motto is: The chaos of many should not subside the order of a few.
My motto is: What happens happens.


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## yhwh1st

Very interesting Rai. I do not racall what exactly my family crest looks like but I do remember seeing a suit of armour upholding a broken spear. My family motto is 'Though Broken, Brave' and it seems to fit us quite nicely.


I don't see you here much anymore.  We all miss you, but I'm sure you stay pretty busy. Classes start for me in a month. I still have a little financial aid stuff to work out but I'll be glad to have a more settled schedule to work around.


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## Wraithguard

You know upon my completion of my Military Service my college major shall be business. The Majority of my Hi Skewl classes were business so if you need any help just give me a... post.


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## yhwh1st

Thanks for the offer. (people here are so nice) I'll definately keep you in mind. I'm planning to attain my AA at a community college, then transferr to Biola University in La Mirada CA. Woohoo!! It's an awesome school. Expensive though. Why it costs so much money just to get a decent education to get a decent job, I'll never know. I'll be in debt for years after I finally graduate!


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## e.Blackstar

I don't know what my motto or crest is...I've never bothered to find out. I'm sure my uncle will know, however...he's a geneology type fellow.

All I know is that my last name, Staubus, means 'dust' or 'dirt' in German. (Staub) My ancestors were farmers...


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## reem

Mostly Palestinian from my father’s side (his family's roots go back at least half a century* in Jerusalem, but I’ve been told they might be of Moroccan decent), Turkish from my maternal grandfather’s side (but his mother was Syrian), and Lebanese from my maternal grandmother’s. Jordanian by nationality, though. I’m not even going to try to figure out the percentages 



yhwh1st said:


> Interesting fact: My great-grandpa was Syrian, his son (my grandpa) is as white as can be. My mom, aunt, and uncle are also white, and of the 8 of us cousins only one of us got the dark skin. My cousin Steve. I'm white as a ghost. j/k but nearly.


Actually, a lot of Syrians are fair-skinned Most probably the effect of intermingling strains during the Crusades and the French and British colonisation of the region. I've three Syrian friends and all of them are fair, one even blond.

*Edit*
*Bleh, meant five centuries, not half one  Need to get some coffee in me


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## yhwh1st

reem said:


> Actually, a lot of Syrians are fair-skinned Most probably the effect of intermingling strains during the Crusades and the French and British colonisation of the region. I've three Syrian friends and all of them are fair, one even blond.


I did not know that. That's interesting. The wierd thing, though, is that they were both dark skinned and it did not show up in anyone else 'til 3 generations later. That was my point.


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## reem

Ah well, genes are funny things They do that, sometimes


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## Wraithguard

Did further research and came upon an answer to my Polish situation. It's not Polish at all, rather it is Macedonian. Which I also confirmed by asking my birthplace which is Gevgelija which is a small, Macedonian city roughly 100km from the Greek city of Thessaloniki.

Revised:
17% English 32% French 43% Greek-Macedonian 8% German


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## Barliman Butterbur

e.Blackstar said:


> What nationalities are all y'all?...Huzzah for mongrels!



Indeed huzzah! I am mainly German/Russian, with a splash or two of Hungarian and Turkish(!). My first wife was a combination of Russian, Irish, and French, so you can imagine the genetic mishmash my kids inherited (one of whom married — and after ten years divorced — a woman who is Chinese/Mexican). My second wife BTW is Japanese.

Let's hear it for mixed blood! 

Barley


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## Barliman Butterbur

yhwh1st said:


> The Jewish and Syrian is a wierd mix, I know.



"Jewish" is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races and mixtures of races. 

One can _create_ a race by religious means if one is religously forbidden to marry outside of one's religion. Then you create a "race" by a kind of selective gene pool. So for example, if all the Marmoset Worshippers in the world were Chinese, African and Eskimo, and no one could marry outside of their religion, then eventually you would "create" a "race" consisting of a genetic blend of Chinese, African and Eskimo. Which, essentially, has happened with Jews tending to orthodox and conservative values, but using a much wider gene pool.

And it isn't restricted just to religious dictum, but more commonly simply on a geographic level. Those in simple near proximity to one another tend to marry more often than do those who live farther from each other. And that's another way to "create" a "race" — that one happens all the time!

Barley


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## AlisaGoldielock

*I"m Russian*

I"m purebreed wicked nationalistic RUSSIAN.And I"m proud of it.Purebreed children are much more patriotic than mongrels.


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## Merry

My father is 100% English, my mother has Irish and Maltese parents so I am a mixture of the 3. 

This gives me a unique look as I am 6ft 5 tall (too tall for Maltese), dark hair and eyes (which is quite Irish) and white skin like any other English man.

Pics are available upon request


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## Merry

Barliman Butterbur said:


> "Jewish" is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races and mixtures of races.



Nice arguement you presented Barliman but I thought the Jews were a race of their own? Yes they follow the Jewish religion but they are Jews none the less. Jews do live all over the world but isn't their perception that they are 'homeless' without their own country and therefore they are temporary residents in whatever country they live in?

I hope I'm not being ignorant, and I'd love a proper insightful answer on this but that is my perception.

Best regards to you all


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## Ithrynluin

*Re: I"m Russian*



AlisaGoldielock said:


> I"m purebreed wicked nationalistic RUSSIAN.And I"m proud of it.Purebreed children are much more patriotic than mongrels.



Ah, that doth explain my utmost mongrelian indifference in all things patriotic! 

Hey, wasn't there also mention of a differing amount of intelligence when it comes to purebreds and mongrels?


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## Hammersmith

Merry said:


> Nice arguement you presented Barliman but I thought the Jews were a race of their own? Yes they follow the Jewish religion but they are Jews none the less. Jews do live all over the world but isn't their perception that they are 'homeless' without their own country and therefore they are temporary residents in whatever country they live in?
> 
> I hope I'm not being ignorant, and I'd love a proper insightful answer on this but that is my perception.
> 
> Best regards to you all


No, you're right. It is possibly to be ethnically Jewish and not religious at all or adherant to a different religion, or to be religiously Jewish but not ethnically Jewish (though I think for the latter limitations are placed on what you can do...I don't know).
The religion 'Judaism' and the ethnic group of 'Jews' are different and it's sort of confusing. A technical word to replace 'Jewish' in the ethnic sense would be semitic, but that word has picked up various connotations.


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## HLGStrider

Isn't it that Jewish is a religious distinction and Hebrew is a racial one? Or something like that. . .

That was RD's take in the matter once when this debate came up.


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## Hammersmith

HLGStrider said:


> Isn't it that Jewish is a religious distinction and Hebrew is a racial one? Or something like that. . .
> 
> That was RD's take in the matter once when this debate came up.


Hebrew is another synonym for semite or (ethnic) Jew.


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## Wolfshead

Wow, you Americans don't half have histories! I'm 3/4 Scottish and 1/4 English as far as blood goes, but mentally I'm 100% Scottish, although I like to see England do well at the football, along with the other Home Nations.

My family have lived where I do now (in the north of Scotland) for at least the last 400 years (it's been traced). Before that they lived in Cawdor near Inverness. Hence the clan name being Calder, derived from Campbell of Cawdor.

That was my mother's side, though. My father's father was from Birmingham and was in the navy (a radio transmission receiver in WWI) and was actually at Bletchley Park (where they did all the decoding) during WWII. But that's about all I know of that side of the family. As for my dad's mother, she's from south west Scotland, as were the rest of her family.

I've been led to believe that if it were possible to trace it back far enough I would have Scandinavian blood in me. My grandmother had a condition that meant movement in one of her hands was restricted. Apparently that's genetic and originates in Scandinavia, which would lead me to suggest one of my far distant ancestors was a Viking. I'm certainly from the right part of Scotland. Which is nice...


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## Hobbit-GalRosie

1/4 Polish, 1/4 Norwegian, 1/4 Irish, and 1/4 Heaven only knows. Depending who you ask and when you ask them it might be Swedish and might also include German, and Mom randomly tries to insert Welsh but she's not sure she has more basis for that than the fact that the name Evan comes up in Dad's side of the family and she _thought_ she'd read that's Welsh, but of course it's actually Swedish and Ewan is Welsh, so far as I know.

Yeah, it's basically anyone's guess. We don't have any geneology types in this family...


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## Noldor_returned

I am Aussie, through and through. Originally Scottish, my previous three generations are all Australian though. I don't know anyone else with Aussie history as far back as me.


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## Mike

Completely and utterly Polish. My Parents are Polish. My Grandparents are Polish. My Great-great grandparents were Polish...you get the idea.

I'm even a Polish citizen, which means, since I was born in Poland, my actual legal nationality is (take a guess) Polish.


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## Wolfshead

Hobbit-GalRosie said:


> 1/4 Polish, 1/4 Norwegian, 1/4 Irish, and 1/4 Heaven only knows. Depending who you ask and when you ask them it might be Swedish and might also include German, *and Mom randomly tries to insert Welsh but she's not sure she has more basis for that than the fact that the name Evan comes up in Dad's side of the family and she thought she'd read that's Welsh, but of course it's actually Swedish and Ewan is Welsh, so far as I know.*
> 
> Yeah, it's basically anyone's guess. We don't have any geneology types in this family...


I don't know about Ewan being Welsh - never heard it as a surname, only as a forename, and would say it is Scottish rather than Welsh.

Evan is a Welsh forename - means John. Ivan is Eastern European and means John as well. Not sure what the Swedish equivalent would be.

Evans is a very popular Welsh surname.


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## Starbrow

Even though my family has been in the U.S.A. for 4 generations, I'm of 100% German ancestory. Some of our family history has been traced back 7 generations in Germany. I feel kind of unusual to have only 1 country to trace my family back to. My children won't have that problem, though. My husband is 1/2 Japanese, 1/4 Swedish, and 1/4 Irish.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie

Wolfshead said:


> I don't know about Ewan being Welsh - never heard it as a surname, only as a forename, and would say it is Scottish rather than Welsh.
> 
> Evan is a Welsh forename - means John. Ivan is Eastern European and means John as well. Not sure what the Swedish equivalent would be.
> 
> Evans is a very popular Welsh surname.



Oh, thank you. I'm pretty sure Evan is also the Swedish form of John as well, it must have evolved through a much different course...of course. I mean, I've heard someone state it's Swedish that I'd expect to sort of know what he's talking about, and it's not an overly-common name in the U.S., and those that have it are almost always Swedish.

What's weird then is that both Ewan and Ian would be Scottish variations on John (unless I'm mixed up again :-/ or the dictionary I was looking up Ian way back then in is full of garbage, which wouldn't be surprising)...that's pretty cool. ^_^


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## Annaheru

My paternal grandfather's family is (so far as we know) pure German-- been in PA since ~1800
My maternal grandfather's family is mostly French-German-- arrived in America ~1720. Before that the family came from the Alsace-Lorraine region.
My maternal grandmother's family came from Ireland in the mid 1800s


A large number of Americans have families that have been all over. Mine reached here and stayed in the Pennsylvania/Virginia area. That's made it much easier to track this stuff down.


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## Wolfshead

Hobbit-GalRosie said:


> What's weird then is that both Ewan and Ian would be Scottish variations on John (unless I'm mixed up again :-/ or the dictionary I was looking up Ian way back then in is full of garbage, which wouldn't be surprising)...that's pretty cool. ^_^


I can't find anything linking Ewan to John, but you're right with Ian. Ewan is an anglicised version of the Gaelic name Eoghan (my cousin is the only person I've ever come across with the original Gaelic spelling). One source tells me Eoghan is derived from the Greek, Eugene, whereas another tells me it "possibly means "born from the yew tree"".


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## Noldor_returned

I'm not sure if it's true or not but I heard somewhere that Yanis is the Greek form of John. I could be quite mistaken.


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## chrysophalax

I can state categorically that John is the Swedish form of John, since that was my great-great-grandfather's name. However, when he came in through Ellis Island, for some reason they changed it to Johan. Go figure.

And I see from a previous post that you have Campbell blood. Hm. The part of me that's Scottish is MacBean, from Inverness. We still remember Glen Coe.


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## Barliman Butterbur

e.Blackstar said:


> What nationalities are all y'all?



Born in Los Angeles, as a "mongreloid" mixture of German, Russian and Hungarian, with just a splash of Turkish (shaken, not stirred).  



yhwh1st said:


> 1/4 Jewish



You do realize that "Jewish" is a religion and not a race? However, races can be manufactured: if many people of different races all belong to the same religion that enforces strict marriage within that religion without regard to race, then over time you will have created a new race.

Barley


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## Wolfshead

chrysophalax said:


> And I see from a previous post that you have Campbell blood. Hm. The part of me that's Scottish is MacBean, from Inverness. We still remember Glen Coe.


I do indeed have Campbell blood, but from an offshoot of the lot that were involved at Glencoe (Campbell of Cawdor for me). Macdonalds always seem to bring it up when I'm wearing my kilt though...

A swift read of Wikipedia doesn't link the MacBean's or the McBain's with the Macdonald's or Glencoe in any way though


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## Annaheru

Barliman Butterbur said:


> You do realize that "Jewish" is a religion and not a race? \Barley


 
Jews as an ethnic group trace their origins to the biblical patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (whose name changed to Israel). Just because the ethnic group is associated with a national religion (which not all ethnic Jews follow) does not that the ethnic group does not exist.


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## Barliman Butterbur

Annaheru said:


> Jews as an ethnic group trace their origins to the biblical patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (whose name changed to Israel). Just because the ethnic group is associated with a national religion (which not all ethnic Jews follow) does not that the ethnic group does not exist.



Anyone can be a Jew or not, never mind their genetics. I say: it makes no more sense to say that one is 1/4 Jewish than it does to say one is 1/4 Catholic or 1/4 Islamic. And we need to get off this RIGHT NOW, because religious discussion _ist ganz verboten hier._ 

Barley


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## Ithrynluin

Barliman Butterbur said:


> it makes no more sense to say that one is 1/4 Jewish than it does to say one is 1/4 Catholic or 1/4 Islamic.[/i]
> 
> Barley



But in contrast to Christianity or Islam, being Jewish can be just as much of a nationality (of sorts), as it can a religion. We just use the same term to describe both, so that's what may be confusing sometimes.


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## Barliman Butterbur

Ithrynluin said:


> But in contrast to Christianity or Islam, being Jewish can be just as much of a nationality (of sorts), as it can a religion. We just use the same term to describe both, so that's what may be confusing sometimes.



Please give me a precise explanation of how that can happen. Using the same term to describe two things that are as different as apples and oranges is pretty sloppy.

Barley


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## Ithrynluin

That it's sloppy does not mean man does not do it. We tend to simplify things, and sometimes go overboard.


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## Eledhwen

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Originally Posted by Ithrynluin
> But in contrast to Christianity or Islam, being Jewish can be just as much of a nationality (of sorts), as it can a religion. We just use the same term to describe both, so that's what may be confusing sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> Please give me a precise explanation of how that can happen. Using the same term to describe two things that are as different as apples and oranges is pretty sloppy.
> 
> Barley
Click to expand...

It is a belief system given to a man who became the patriarch of a large family. Thanks to a famine, that family grew into a nation in exile, where it became a discrete minority. The rules for the belief system were written up on the rather long march home (40 years - I'm told it should have taken a fortnight). The rule book had clauses in it to allow others to join. I suppose through time, it ceased to be clear who was of Abraham's seed and who was adopted.

And as for my own nationality, I suppose I'm English, born in Germany by accident of post-war occupation. I would like to look into my ancestry, which is largely unexplored. The European Union wants to do away with this country, but the more they meddle, the more English we are becoming. A decade ago most English people (all those not in Baden Powell's youth groups) would have been hard put to tell you when St George's day is (It's today, by the way!). Now there are English flags and St George's day cards festooning many retailers to remind us.


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## Annaheru

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Please give me a precise explanation of how that can happen. Using the same term to describe two things that are as different as apples and oranges is pretty sloppy.
> 
> Barley


 
Well another example in the same vein: in this day and age "arab" is often used as a synonym for Muslim. Never mind about the Turks, Kurds, Persians, Berbers, Indonesians, etc; and that most Muslims don't speak arabic. . .

That doesn't mean that Arabs, as in a semitic ethnic group who came from what is now modern day Saudi Arabia, don't exist.


As Ithy pointed out, much of the problem lies in mankind's compulsive tendency to group and name things-- regardless of the appropriateness of the terms and groupings.


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## Lindir

chrysophalax said:


> I can state categorically that John is the Swedish form of John, since that was my great-great-grandfather's name. However, when he came in through Ellis Island, for some reason they changed it to Johan. Go figure.



Actually, you're wrong. The Swedish equivalent is Johan. While John might not be totally uncommon, it's not the usual form. 
Evan, by the way, is not the Swedish form of any known name. I have never met or even heard of anyone called Evan.
All this I know for certain since I am Swedish myself.


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## HLGStrider

My great-great-grandfather's name was Evan. Supposedly that side of the family is Swedish, so I always assumed the name was as well. 

BUT! According to a website, Welsh has it.

The boy's name Evan _\e-van\_ is pronounced _EV-an_. It is of Welsh origin. Variant of a Gaelic name anglicized as *John* (Hebrew) "the Lord is gracious". In Celtic, the name means "young warrior". In Welsh, it means "God is Good". It is also used as a short form of *Evangelos*, which means "good messenger" in Greek. In Hebrew, Evan means "rock". See also *Evian*

from here: http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Evan


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## Barliman Butterbur

Eledhwen said:


> It is a belief system given to a man who became the patriarch of a large family. Thanks to a famine, that family grew into a nation in exile, where it became a discrete minority. The rules for the belief system were written up on the rather long march home. The rule book had clauses in it to allow others to join. I suppose through time, it ceased to be clear who was of Abraham's seed and who was adopted.



Well, that's exactly what I said before: races are created over an extended period of time by the intermarriage of people of different races when they marry into a given religion. But _in general,_ I would classify "Jewish" as referring to a religion, not a set of genes.

Barley


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## Aiwendil2

> But in general, I would classify "Jewish" as referring to a religion, not a set of genes.



It's generally accepted that it can refer to either the religion or the ethnic group. There _are_ distinct genetic markers that don't necessarily go hand in hand with a certain set of religious beliefs. It's also a useful term for identifying a _cultural_ identity that is shared by many who are not religiously Jewish.

As for myself, I'm roughly 1/4 Frisian, 1/16 German, 1/16 Scotch-Irish, 1/8 Scottish, 1/16 English, 1/16 Irish, and 3/8 Jewish - though my religion is more like atheo-agnosticism.


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## chrysophalax

McBain is a sept of Clan Chattan and they were definitely there. Heh, you should see the tent we (the Mc Beans) have at the Grandfather Mt. Highland games. We have the front end of a Scottish wildcat all stuffed and mounted and, if asked where the other half is, the guy running the tent always says "We sent it to the Campbell's!" with a rather wicked glint in his eye. 

My great- great (etc.) grandfather (John Bean) fought in that particular battle, was captured and sent to New England to become an indentured servant. Needless to say, he stayed and founded the John Bean of Exeter line of the McBeans in the US. (Way more info than anyone here wishes to know about my family, I'm sure.)

As for your own line of Campbells...well...that's ok I suppose.


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## Barliman Butterbur

Frankly, I'm surprised that The Powers That Be have allowed this religious discussion to go on so long. I'm expecting hellfire and brimstone to descend any second...

Barley


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## HLGStrider

I personally don't count it as a religious "debate," which I thought was what was forbidden. This is just people trying to hash out terms, not argue about the validity of the religion supported by those terms. In that context it is more of a historical/socialogical/anthropological discussion. 

And also one rather necessary to the subject of this thread.


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## Aiwendil2

It's really just a discussion about terminology. And all definitions are conventional anyway.


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## Aisteru

yeah, sorry to interrupt whatever was being decided but as for myself, i am German, Irish, Polish, and English for the most part. I'm not sure about all of the percentages so I left them out.


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## Gift of Names

I'm Canadian. I'm not certain of the ratios, but I have Irish, Italian, German and Russian ancestors somewhere _in time_.


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## Erestor Arcamen

I'm 1/2 Irish, 1/4 Polish and 1/4 Slovak and God knows how much, but i have a small small amount of Dutch

And I live in America. My mom's side my grandmother is the slovak my grandfater the polish and my dad's parents are like 99% irish


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## Starflower

well.. I'm Finnish - all of me. I have no other nationality in me whatsoever  !


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## Eledhwen

As far as I know, I'm all English (the northern part). I know I have relatives from Ireland and Scotland, though not sure there's any blood link; but as my father was a scouser (from Liverpool) there could be just about anything in the mix. I want to take some time to study my own ancestry, as my present knowledge of it is far too short.


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## Starbrow

What's a scouser?


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## Eledhwen

Sorry! A scouser is someone from Liverpool. They're named after a bowl of stew (scouse).

Actually, the more I think about the quirkier bits of English folklore, the more Hobbits I see.


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## Elbereth

Very odd...this thread has been around for two years and I never replied to it before...Have I been away for that long? ....hmmmm. 

Anyway....for the sake of answering because I'm really really bored here in my very empty office, I will present you with my extremely mixed racial background. (Somehow, I think there is another thread with this info in it in the TTF archives....whatever, I'm rambling)

filipino, spanish, english, irish, scottish, native american, chinese, japanese, and swiss. 


Basically, I can check every box in the US census racial ethnicity section, except for "Black".


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## Eledhwen

Elbereth said:


> filipino, spanish, english, irish, scottish, native american, chinese, japanese, and swiss.
> 
> Basically, I can check every box in the US census racial ethnicity section, except for "Black".


Do they have a box marked 'mongrel'? (sorry!). Looking at that mix, I bet you're very pretty.


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## Wolfshead

Starbrow said:


> What's a scouser?













chrysophalax said:


> McBain is a sept of Clan Chattan and they were definitely there. Heh, you should see the tent we (the Mc Beans) have at the Grandfather Mt. Highland games. We have the front end of a Scottish wildcat all stuffed and mounted and, if asked where the other half is, the guy running the tent always says "We sent it to the Campbell's!" with a rather wicked glint in his eye.
> 
> My great- great (etc.) grandfather (John Bean) fought in that particular battle, was captured and sent to New England to become an indentured servant. Needless to say, he stayed and founded the John Bean of Exeter line of the McBeans in the US. (Way more info than anyone here wishes to know about my family, I'm sure.)
> 
> As for your own line of Campbells...well...that's ok I suppose.


You'd be claiming Sawney Bean as ancestor too then?


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## chrysophalax

One never knows...

I was recently online doing some more research into different parts of my family and discovered that two different lines come from northern England, Yorkshire (the Harrimans) and Alston in Cumbria (the Colbys). Apparently the Colbys sailed to Massachusetts in 1630. I think it would be interesting to one day see if any of the old cousins still live in these areas.


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## Barliman Butterbur

I am a proud mutt, put together from a hodgepodge of Russian, German, Hungarian and Turkish genes. My children are even more mixed, including as well the French, Irish, Polish and Russian of their mother. What a genetic stew!

Barley


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## Sammyboy

As far as I know I'm 100% English, born in Nottingham, UK and currently living in Staffordshire in the West Midlands. My dad was from Yorkshire and mum from Nottingham, that's about as exciting as my lineage gets lol!


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## Illuin

Our tree goes back to the mid 1700’s. My Mom’s side is half Italian; half Austrian. My Dad’s side is half French; half Swedish; with another Italian ancestor thrown in there more recently. My last name is French (hint: it’s a mustard that begins with the letter "D"  - Americanized a little bit in the spelling, but it’s still pronounced the same way).


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## Prince of Cats

Hummmm, now you have me wondering how to spell it differently with the same pronunciation

Deezshon?

Deshawn?

Deeson? ​


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## Barliman Butterbur

Illuin said:


> Our tree goes back to the mid 1700’s. My Mom’s side is half Italian; half Austrian. My Dad’s side is half French; half Swedish; with another Italian ancestor thrown in there more recently. My last name is French (hint: it’s a mustard that begins with the letter "D"  - Americanized a little bit in the spelling, but it’s still pronounced the same way).



D'*zhaw(n)h* (with a French nasal honk at the end)

Close? 

Barley


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## Ingwë

I'm Bulgarian and I'm proud to be one. All my ancestors are bulgarians, though my paternal mother originates from what is now European Turkey, but a century ago many bulgarians dwelt there. They moved to Bulgaria after the Balkan War (1912-1913)

You american guys are pretty international


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## Uminya

Mostly Celtic ancestry here (particularly Welsh, but also Scot and Irish). Mother's side also has either Apache or Commanche blood in strong amounts.


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## Firawyn

I cannot believe I havn't replied to this before. Read through the whole thread, sure that I had - but evidently not. Well. 

Both sets of my "great-grandparents", were first generation American. My father's side was from Denmark, my mother's side from Poland. 

My grandmother on my dad's side married a 75% Danish, 25% English man...

My grandmother on my mother's side married a 50% German, 50% Polish man, so that makes me...

So that makes me... I really suck at math...I'm just going to leave it at mostly Polish and Danish. 

As far as _leagally_, I'm American...however if I have it my way I will not remain American (at least not totally).


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## Kementari

I'm part German-Jewish, Welsh, Scottish, Mic'maq (Native American), Irish, British and French


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## Barliman Butterbur

Kementari said:


> I'm part German-Jewish, Welsh, Scottish, Mic'maq (Native American), Irish, British and French



Can't help it, gotta say it: "Jewish" is a religion, and not a race. _ALTHOUGH_ if enough people of all races intermarry only those of the same religion, that would in time create a kind of hybrid race. Are you saying that's the case with Judaism? Because one can find Jews of all different races.

Barley


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## Majimaune

Barly I thought Jewish was both race and religion and that it is passed down only by the maternal side.

Um I'm fifth generation Australian with English and Irish heritage.


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## Kementari

The Jewish race/religion thing is really tricky and i have to deal with it a lot since phenotypically I take after my Semitic ancestors (not my nordic or celtic ones). Actually the proper term for a Jewish person from eastern Europe would be Ashkenazi Jew. 

Certain GENETIC disorders occur in people with Jewish (ethnic) ancestry. That is enough to convince me that the term Jewish can crudely be used to describe people genetically http://www.jewishgeneticscenter.org/

However, when you are speaking about RELIGION it is completely different. My Jewish ancestors were male so the practice of Judaism was not passed on in my family. BUT if me or anyone else no matter what their ethnic background chose to practice that religion, we could be called Jewish.


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## Úlairi

My last name is French in origin and I have ancestry there, one member of whom as French Royalty!  Ooooooohh.  He was a Baron and married an American Indian from the _New World_ so there is some American Indian there too; but that seems lost long ago. This was from my Father's side who were Scottish also. I also have Irish, English and Scottish ancestry on my Mother's side. Her great-granparents were all over the place in the UK.

As for me, according to d_a rulz_ I am the first generation in my family to be a full-blooded Australian! 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Barliman Butterbur

Majimaune said:


> Barly I thought Jewish was both race and religion and that it is passed down only by the maternal side.



It's a Jewish religious precept that says that if one's mother is Jewish, then the child is Jewish — not because of genetics, but because of the acknowledgment that the mother has much more influence over the child in its raising — in certain respects — than does the father. I don't want to get into it any more here. If you have more questions, please PM me. 

Barley


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## Elbereth

Barliman Butterbur said:


> D'*zhaw(n)h* (with a French nasal honk at the end)
> 
> Close?
> 
> Barley



Hahaha....I never heard it called a nasal "honk"...very funny....or at least I thought it was. Needless to say, it gave me a chuckle.


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## Persephone

Hmmm...

Well, I may not look it, but I have Chinese, Indian, Japanese, German, Spanish, and Filipino Blood.

Talk about East meets West.


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## Firawyn

Narya said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Well, I may not look it, but I have Chinese, Indian, Japanese, German, Spanish, and Filipino Blood.
> 
> Talk about East meets West.



In the dog world, we call that "mutt"...


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## Úlairi

Firawyn said:


> In the dog world, we call that "mutt"...


 
That's a little harsh, Fir. I prefer the term _lineally challenged_. But you die hard Harry Potter fans might like _mudblood_. 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Firawyn

Ah but anyone who knows me would know that I am a big fan of mutts. Best kind of dog there is! 

I was not being harsh...did you miss the *wink* icon? 

And yes, as a die-hard Rowling fan...mudblood would be insulting.


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## Aulë

0.75% Australian (if I look way back I come across some Scottish and English)
0.25% English



Not too exciting...but at least there's no American blood in there!


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## Noldor_returned

Aulë said:


> 0.75% Australian (if I look way back I come across some Scottish and English)
> 0.25% English
> 
> 
> 
> Not too exciting...but at least there's no American blood in there!


 
Yeah! I agree...I'm fourth gen Aussie (as much as you can be Aussie when you're not indigenous) I think originally it's Scottish though...

By the way that's only 1% out of 100%


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## chrysophalax

Are we talking North, South or Central American that you're happy you're not, Aule?


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## Alcarinque

100% Greek.


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## Aulë

chrysophalax said:


> Are we talking North, South or Central American that you're happy you're not, Aule?


 Ummm...the part where you're _not_ from?


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## chrysophalax

Smart, smart man...well done! *toothy Dragon grin*


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## Starflower

You know what, Im getting a bit jealous here. Everyone else seems to have percentages, poor me has to settle for a single nationality as far back as can be counted...


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## chrysophalax

Are you kidding?! I'd love to be 100% something! As it is, I have no true ethnic heritage, no one thing I can be proud of and say "I'm THIS and proud of it!" Noooo...the closest I get is be 3/4 British. *humph*


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## Elbereth

Starflower said:


> You know what, Im getting a bit jealous here. Everyone else seems to have percentages, poor me has to settle for a single nationality as far back as can be counted...



Hey you never know....there could be some racial mixing in there that you didn't know about. There are so many stories of people with hidden past, where their family had to cover up a scandal of infidelity or "heaven forbid!" interracial dating. You could have some hidden strain of blood lurking in your family tree and don't even know it. 

Don't think that can happen...well it did in my family. We found out that four generations ago, our great, great, great grandfather had an affair with an Indian Squaw and gave birth to one of my great grandmothers who was disowned by the family for being bi-racial...it was a BIG scandal at the time. Although it makes for interesting story now though...


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## Alcarinque

chrysophalax said:


> Are you kidding?! I'd love to be 100% something! As it is, I have no true ethnic heritage, no one thing I can be proud of and say "I'm THIS and proud of it!" Noooo...the closest I get is be 3/4 British. *humph*


 
Let me clarify my statement. 100% is as far as I know. Going back in the centuries of history Turks, pirates, etc have invaded Greece so I have no way of knowing if I'm the real thing. How fascinating it would be to track down your roots ages ago! However, Don Huan, an Indian spiritual person, in Carlo Castaneda's books advises us to get rid of our personal history in order to be truly free!


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## Ghorim

Some very interesting fractions out there!

As for me, my mother's parents both trace their roots back to Russia, and my dad's side is split evenly between Russian and German. So... 75% Russian, 25% German, I believe. 

It's also a completely Jewish family tree going as far back as we can trace it. Maybe a Moabite snuck in there a few millenia back.


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## Starflower

Elbereth said:


> Hey you never know....there could be some racial mixing in there that you didn't know about. There are so many stories of people with hidden past, where their family had to cover up a scandal of infidelity or "heaven forbid!" interracial dating. You could have some hidden strain of blood lurking in your family tree and don't even know it.
> 
> Don't think that can happen...well it did in my family. We found out that four generations ago, our great, great, great grandfather had an affair with an Indian Squaw and gave birth to one of my great grandmothers who was disowned by the family for being bi-racial...it was a BIG scandal at the time. Although it makes for interesting story now though...



Wow, that'some story


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## Firawyn

Haha, yea my family tree is crazy but it's more about divorces, adoptions, kids born of adultery (many)...yea.


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## Elbereth

Starflower said:


> Wow, that'some story



I actually don't give the story justice at all. Unfortunately, the story has probably lost is flair and intrigue over the years....My grandfather didn't talk it about it much except to say that he got his stunning dark hair and features from the the "Indian" side of the family. He was a bit of a character to say the least.
To get the rest of the story it took some digging by my sister and I. A few of our older relatives (over the age of 75) explained to us what happened through pictures and past on information that they had learned as children, but the story was told in a very "matter of fact" way with very little narrative. So I can't say the story is very exciting unfortunately.


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## Varokhâr

American-born with Polish, Russian, and German ancestry


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## Dain

My Fathers side of the family mostly come from Hampshire and Somerset but for his Mother's father and that family who came from Scotland (the Scot in my tree was a stoker on HMS Hydra during WWI at the battles of Heligoland Bight and Dogger Bank before being transfered to the Submarine E-40 for the rest of the war while his father was a gamekeeper of somekind somewhere in Scotland - and that's all we've found so far on that branch).

My mothers side is at least eight generations of Portsmouth people along with people from Rutland and Kent and Wales and eventually we've gotten back to French roots through the Plantagenets (Kings John, Henry III, Edward I, Edward II, Edward III then through Edward III's son Lionel to Henry "Harry Hotspur" Percy and so on - but we're not totally sure on that yet).

So I'm mostly British with possibly a bit of French


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## childoferu

Black-American, so I *MOST LIKELY* have some white and native american blood in me, but like many blacks in America, I know not from whence I come, hmm how many other black members do we have?


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## Astrance

I'm French, as you would have guessed from the "Fellowship of Food" anyway 

My mother's family is from the South West ; we traced our family tree to a small village in the Pyreneas that bears "our" name, that's close both to Spain and Biscaye. My father's family is from the Lyon region, but we don't know a lot about it, because of family feuds on my grand-father's side.


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## Eledhwen

childoferu said:


> Black-American, so I *MOST LIKELY* have some white and native american blood in me, but like many blacks in America, I know not whence I come, hmm how many other black members do we have?


I'm white; but I recently watched "Who do you think you are?" - a TV programme where the genealogy of famous people are researched. A black female news reader, Moira Stuart, found that her Scottish surname came from the slave owner who sired her ancestors.

I managed to trace a little of my father's family tree when the old census returns came online, and it's England all the way, except for a great grandmother born in Canada. I know nothing else about her, and hope one day to have the time to investigate. I'm also keen to explore my Mum's ancestors, the Coopers (not easy! it's a very common name meaning barrel maker) and the Goldsbroughs.


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## Rainwall

I'm Italian  (from the south of Italy but I live in Milan)


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## Firawyn

Nice. I think you might be our first Italian. A warm welcome!! 

(We like diversity, in case you hadn't already gotten that picture!)


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## Rainwall

Firawyn said:


> Nice. I think you might be our first Italian. A warm welcome!!
> 
> (We like diversity, in case you hadn't already gotten that picture!)


 

Thanks Firawyn... unfortunately I don't speak english very well  so excuse me if I'll do a grammatical error!


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## Firawyn

Don't worry.  Honestly, you could probably "speak" (type) in Italian and I could understand. I've been a student of Latin for about seven years now, and Latin is one of the major root languages, a direct decedent of which is Italian. Diversity is something we love on TTF, but have often found that even in that diversity, we can relate to each other on many levels. We're just a group of people who all love Tolkien.


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## Nienor

Well, I feel terrible for writing on a thread that has been "abandoned" for so long, so if shouldn't be doing this, just erase it >.<

Concerning the topic, as far as I know, I am 100% Spanish. However, one of my great grandfathers on my mother side surname is a bit of a mystery to me. It is very rare and it is only present in my native city. I think it might come from the South of France for historical reasons, but I haven't been able to track its origin. The surname is Albiach, by the way. And I don't think we have a motto or a crest o.o I believe my roots are quite humble, hehe.


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