# origin of trolls?



## Bailey Baggins (Feb 27, 2003)

The only reference that we have as of where Trolls came from is from what Treebeard said, that trolls are mockeries of Ents, but nowhere in the Silmarillion or in the books of lost tales does it mention the creation of trolls so who created trolls and why? We also know that Sauron made use of the in them in his Olog-hai, but that still doesnt help to answer their point of origin.


----------



## Ithrynluin (Feb 27, 2003)

Here's a thread on this subject:
What are trolls? 

From _The Lord of the Rings: Treebeard_:



> 'Ho, hm, well, we could, you know! You do not know, perhaps, how strong we are. Maybe you have heard of Trolls? They are mighty strong. But Trolls are only counterfeits, *made by the Enemy in the Great Darkness*, in mockery of Ents, as Orcs were of Elves. We are stronger than Trolls. We are made of the bones of the earth. We can split stone like the roots of trees, only quicker, far quicker, if our minds are roused! If we are not hewn down, or destroyed by fire or blast of sorcery, we could split Isengard into splinters and crack its walls into rubble.'



It is a bit unclear perhaps, whether it was Melkor or Sauron who created trolls. This could be a reference to the Dark Years, when Sauron had dominion of Middle Earth (in the Second Age). Or it could refer to the time of Melkor's stay in Utumno.


----------



## Bailey Baggins (Feb 27, 2003)

My opinion is that trolls were created by Melkor in the pits of Utumno around the same time he created the orcs, but where did he get ents or entings to create the trolls?


----------



## ElvishHellion (Feb 27, 2003)

that could be possible


----------



## Kahmûl (Feb 28, 2003)

Melkor created the trolls in the pits of Angband and because they were bread in darkness when they went out in the sun they turned to stone which i think they might have been made of so when Sauron bred the olog-hai they were probably made in the sunlight whichis why they could resist the sun.


----------



## Bailey Baggins (Mar 4, 2003)

The trolls were not created out of stone we already know that they were created in mockery of Ents, Sauron cannot create anything original so he had to have something in which to start with, in this case Ents.


----------



## Theoden_king (Mar 4, 2003)

And with orcs he copied elves? is that right?


----------



## Kahmûl (Mar 5, 2003)

Melkor wished to have a race as powerful as the ents. As the ents were to the substance of wood the trolls were to the substance of stone.


----------



## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

I think that its possible that Sauron created the Trolls from the Entwives. I read this in other people threads so its no my idea originally but entwives would most likely be weaker than Ents as Trolls are weaker than Ents. Sauron could have corrupted them and then bred them with say an orc or to and have gotten the Olog-Hai or something. Just a thought.


----------



## Bailey Baggins (Mar 11, 2003)

It is also my stongest theory that Trolls were created from Entwives, it seems very likely and the only other possible clue to the whereabouts of the entwives is from TFOTR when sighting of tree-people were reported. However it would have been Melkor who created trolls and not Sauron.


----------



## Dáin Ironfoot I (Mar 13, 2003)

Yes but you all are forgetting one thing: Tolkien said Treebeard was very wrong in saying what he did. In other words, Trolls were not Ents like he said.

Its in one of his letters I am fairly sure.


----------

