# Nardor



## Bard the Bowman (Feb 14, 2012)

Nardor is a work of fan fiction. However, it is clearly inspired by Tolkien's universe in which the events of the Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings take place. If you have any questions concerning Nardor feel free to ask them.

Doesn't anyone want to learn about Nardor?


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## Adanedhel (Feb 23, 2012)

What's the story?


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## Bard the Bowman (Feb 23, 2012)

In the last days of King Elessar’s life, he imparted a certain portion of knowledge to his son Eldarion, that there were “sundered kin” of the Gondorians, who the Rangers of Arnor had battled over many years, due to their hatred for the Dunedain. He bequeathed it to his son to find them.

This troubled Eldarion, as he knew not what this new threat might be. And so, a year after receiving the Crown of Gondor, Eldarion was residing in Annuminas, and taking his father’s wish, arrayed himself in light attire with earthy tones, and taking three score or so of the descendants of the Rangers, journeyed into the wilderness to hunt for these mysterious peoples. Far into the north they came, just south of Forochel. Eldarion questioned the Lossoth of wicked people of Numenorean descent, but the Lossoth appeared fearful, and would not answer. 

They continued though, coming to the North Downs. No one had dared to go here since the days of Aragorn’s chieftanship, and it had remained an evil place. They were walking along the edge of the Downs when arrows began whistling by them. More than one found their mark. Several Rangers were killed. Assailed by an unseen enemy, Eldarion and his men took what little cover they could and returned the salvo. But Eldarion had inherited not only hardiness and battle prowess from his father but also wisdom. Keeping half of his men to continue the volley, Eldarion and the rest drew their swords silently and crept through the fog towards the Downs. They came right to the center of the Downs but found no one, and there were only very faint tracks, fresh, but made as if someone skilled in deception and disappearance had been there. Indeed the tracks were just as light as those of the Rangers themselves. And the Rangers quickly spread out silently in their fashion. At last a cry brought Eldarion to a large barrow, and against it sat a man with an arrow in his leg. He was darker skinned than the Dunedain, and darker haired. But tall and noble he seemed, despite the fact he was clad in weather beaten clothes. A band of steel he wore around his head, with a golden sun in the middle.

The man only declared himself as Valtor son of Vandoril, but would say no more about where his people came from or who they were.

Eldarion had him bound, and ordered the men to search the barrows. They did so, and found not empty tombs with treasures but actual dwellings. Then Eldarion’s captain Maethor found one that appeared to be a storage room of some sort. And there were many parchments and annals kept there. It is told that these were brought back to Fornost. Eldarion and his men in time captured or killed the rest of the men, who they called Dark Rangers. But there were more elsewhere, and after two long years in the North Eldarion, after losing many men, emerged victorious with many prisoners. From them he could learn nothing of their history or people. All he could learn is that they had a lifespan equal to that of the Dunedain, and so were quite certainly of Numenorean descent. And so Eldarion spent a year in Fornost poring over the records found in the North Downs. And so he made a history of the Dark Rangers, entitled, The Tale of Nardor.

The people of Nardor first began as a branch off from the people of Numenor. Before the golden reign of Ar-Pharazon, a group of Numenoreans, not from the Faithful, settled a small island a few miles off the coast of Middle earth south of Umbar. They began a new settlement there and prospered, more than a few thousand, for the land was bountiful like Numenor. Their lord was a direct descendant of Turin Turambar. For though it was thought Nienor Niniel died in the waters, Ulmo was kind to her, and rescued her from the torrents, and she delivered. And so her descendants became leaders of these islanders. The black sword Gurthan was an heirloom to the lords, and remained the sword of the kings of Nardor, long past the realm's fall. These people followed Ar-Pharazon and Sauron, but they had no part in the vast armada the King invaded Eldamar with. They could see the destruction Numenor by the will of Illuvatar, and were afraid. Indeed, it did not please the Valar that any other than the Faithful should escape the Downfall. But the people of the island were also wise. After Numenor fell, they loaded up their ships and set sail for Middle-earth, south of Umbar, for they feared that the Black Numenoreans there would kill them, thinking them part of the Faithful. And it was well, for Eru destroyed the island shortly after they left, and the ruin of the island was so violent that 4 ships were lost in the waves. 

They landed in the sparse land near Far Harad, and they were now a great host, with women and children and many herds of livestock. They journeyed inward, looking for land suitable for them, but were barred in by an endless mountain range. The cliffs were steep, and many died trying to climb over the mountains, as no pass could be found. But the people of the island started to dwindle, for there was little food and water to sustain a large population, and their livestock started to die, and the sun was very bright. Many morepeople died before hope eventually came. A wanderer, very tall, singing beautifully, they came across. He was not a man they could see, but an elf. His hand was clenched as in pain, and in his eyes was sorrow. Taking pity on the people, he led them through a secret pass in the mountains, and the land inside was good, unlike the fierce deserts of Harad. They took the elvish saviour as their king, and he named himself as Maglor, son of Feanor. Of him they knew much, and they marveled still. Maglor married the lord’s daughter, and his son they named Amadril. And so the House of Hurin vanished, and was renamed the House of Maglor. Within the shadow of the mountains Maglor’s people prospered, and they mined into the mountains and became a powerful force. More than once they had to fight off raids from Haradrim tribes. And always Maglor was increasing the size of his realm.

In the sides of the mountains they carved great cities after the fashion of Numenor. But the greatest city was in the south of the land, and it was named Forrelon. The city that guarded the sea entrance was called Tilion, and the port outside the mountains was named Antorin. Maglor named his realm Nardor, Land Behind the Mountains. But he became mortal, and died just as men die.

For a thousand years the Nardorians prospered, untroubled in their secret kingdom. They had learnt through spies of Sauron’s fall to Isildur, but they had sent no aid as they distrusted the Faithful. Twice though in later years they did send aid, to battle the enemies of Gondor, because they hated Sauron fiercely because of the Destruction of Numenor. And even to Gondor it had seemed like great hosts, but it was but a small portion of Nardor’s true strength. Sauron hated this new people because of this, as much as the Dunedain, and plotted their destruction. But the Nardorians waited behind their walls of stone. 

But soon out of the west two wanderers came to the mountains. They were clad in sea blue, with grey mantles and one wore a hood. They both carried staffs, which seemed to radiate a hidden power. The watchmen on the high towers on the mountaintops espied them, and King Calaher of Nardor admitted them. Learning that they were Istari from Valinor, they were mistrusted, and were not permitted to leave the kingdom. But they made it clear what their purpose was. The people of Nardor were not as secret as they thought. Word had reached the newly arisen Sauron through the Haradrim, that people other than the Faithful had escaped the Downfall of Numenor, and that they were powerful and many, and that they served themselves. Sauron, they said, would certainly want to remove this threat, as they had saved Gondor before. The Blue Wizards counseled Calaher to mine the mountains, and make a great store of weapons and armour. And the king was fearful, and did as they bid. And these wizards, Alatar and Palando, became Calaher’s counselors, and oversaw the defense and preparation of Nardor, weaving spells into the cities to protect them. They warned him not to let Gondor fall. Calaher was not pleased with this, as the rift between the Gondorian Faithful and the Nardorians had been expanding. They did not trust one another. But nonetheless, when Sauron attacked Gondor in the days of Minalcar, Calaher sent a massive force and crushed Sauron's invading armies, and also destroyed the Corsairs of Umbar in a vicious sea battle. He did this because he understood that with a threat in the west, Mordor would be less agressive and contained. Then Sauron saw that he could never destroy the remnants of the Elendili, unless he first removed Nardor.


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## Bard the Bowman (Feb 23, 2012)

In the days of Calaher’s son Celimar, during the time of the Kin-Strife in Gondor, Sauron saw his chance to assail Nardor. The Witch-King of Angmar was attacking Arnor, and Gondor was diminished with the civil war. Sauron sent a great host of orcs and wicked men, and they set up a great camp near the start of the mountain range. And there were Nazgul. The Blue Wizards with a force held them off and with their magic drove the Nazgul off, and the host was sent packing. However, Sauron then sent another force, larger and with many sorcerers. The Blue Wizards advised Celimar to withdraw to the cities. But Celimar had already brought a force out, and engaged the enemy. However, the might and skill of the Nardorians and the radiating power of the Blue Wizards was too great for the host of Mordor. And across the sands of the Harad the orcs fled, with the horsemen of Nardor on their heels. The army then circled to the south and retreated to the safety of the city walls. But Alatar warned Celimar that Sauron would send a much greater force next time, with trolls and mumakil, and siege engines, and sorcerers. However, Celimar successfully defeated Mordor’s armies, and the might of Nardor was indeed great. But Sauron knew this, and bided his time, though he made feint of attack.

In the days when King Telumehtar of Gondor retook Umbar, Sauron unleashed his full force on the people of Nardor. And Vorondil, great-grandson of King Celimar, receiving the news from the scouts, knew that they would be hard pressed to hold off this force. And he sent word to Umbar and Gondor, requesting aid. But the King of Gondor would not send any, for he feared a new threat coming out of the east: the Wainriders. However Sauron had left Mordor virtually unguarded, and had loosed his full force of orcs, trolls, mumakil, Haradrim, Black Numenoreans, Variags of Khand, and Wainriders on the Nardorians. And so no help came from Gondor or Arnor, for Arnor was hard pressed with Angmar at this time. Alatar and Palando advised Vorondil to retreat to Tilion, and hold off as best as he could. Vorondil took their advice and ordered his soldiers to retreat to the cities, while he and his royal guard withdrew to Forrelon. His men killed many from the high towers on the mountains, as the forces of Mordor battered the citie. But in the end the Nazgul found a secret entrance into Tilion through treachery, for there was a traitor in Nardor. A certain man, Imrod, a Gondorian ambassador, who had been captured by the Nazgul and daunted betrayed Nardor. For a while Alatar and Palando held the Nazgul at bay, but as the main Mordor host drew close, a terror greater than anything imaginable assailed them. No one knew what they were fighting. All they saw was blinding flashes of light and deafening noises. However, in the end the Blue Wizards fled, and escaped from Nardor. And this troubled Sauron. For though his conquest of Nardor was progressing, the capture of the Blue Wizards would have been far more valuable to him, for he perceived who they were, and knew that they were behind the threat in the south.

Long was the battle and siege before Tilion, but it at last fell and the Nardorians there retreated across the long plains south to Forrelon. As they approached the capital, pursued by the orcs and trolls, a mighty host, led by Vorondil himself, issued forth from Forrelon. And that was the undoing of Nardor. For if they had remained in the city and defended from there they might have won. But with their great power came great pride. Still things might have gone otherwise, for Vorondil was a great warrior, strong and inspiring. But as they slaughtered the orcs and Easterlings, the lines of Mordor broke, and walking through the ranks the Nardorians saw the Dark Lord himself. Clad in black armour, none could abide his Eye. Vorondil's courage wavered, but he gathered his resolve and challenged Sauron to single combat. Sauron smiled inwardly, and accepted the challenge. Many songs are sung of the duel between Sauron and Vorondil, and of the wound Vorondil imparted on the Evil One. Indeed, the skill and might of the king were so great that his sword pierced through the black armour, and as he wrenched out Gurthang the black blood spurted from Sauron's side. And as Vorondil went to hew the head off of Sauron, he was stabbed from behind by the traitor Imrod, who later became the Mouth of Sauron. Treachery it was that won the day. With the death of their king the Nardorians wavered, and were broken. The Haradrim, fierce and deadly, burned the cities and the orcs ravaged the land. Antorin repelled 4 invasions of the Corsairs, but when the mainland host of Mordor and Harad surrounded it, the port-city fell after a month-long siege. There were some Nardorians, however, who survived and escaped the great battles, and somehow they managed to take with them Gurthang. Among them was Vorondil's three children. It was believed by these survivors that if Gondor had but lent small aid, or threatened Mordor’s dominion, they would have been saved and the armies of Mordor forced to retreat. But they were willing to put this anger aside, and humble themselves. 

How these people and their families escaped is not told in the annals, but it is said there were a thousand at least, plus women and children. They traveled north. As they fled they came through southern Ithilien, and came upon the orc garrison in Osgiliath. These they utterly destroyed, but word came to Morgul, and other troops were prepared. The Nardorians requested passage over the Anduin, but the garrison of Osgiliath denied them passage, and bade them be gone, thinking them renegades and traitors and spies of Mordor, forgetting the aid that Nardor had sent long ago. And as fresh troops came up from Minas Morgul, the Nardorians were caught between the Great River and their enemies. Hastily they gathered rafts and sailed down the river, some having to swim. The Gondorians, thinking they were attempting to cross, killed many; and many died from orc blades, or from torture at the hands of the orcs. The screams of pain haunted the survivors to the end of their days. And so they harboured a deep hatred for the Dunedain, and sought to do them as much harm as possible. They fled through Gondor to the western edge of the Ered Nimrais. Gondor was strong at this point and they did not dare attack it. But after the destruction of Nardor the might of Sauron was so crippled he could not do anything for a long while, as he had been preparing this assault force for hundreds of years. The Wainriders however, still had many chariots and they planned an invasion of Gondor. The Nardorians however were already into Dunland by that time.

As they came farther north they heard of the Witch-King’s conquest of Arnor, and how King Arvedui was holding out with dwindling strength but the Witch-King could not break him. The Nardorians now became a stealthy secretive people, trained with the bow, able to blend in and disappear. They were called the Dark Rangers. They joined the ranks of the Witch-King because of their hatred for the Dunedain, and because of their added strength and skill, Angmar was able to defeat Arvedui. After Cirdan’s victory and the destruction of Angmar, the Dark Rangers removed themselves and settled in the North Downs. And they battled with the Dunedain Rangers from that day on. But other enemies they also had. Orcs from Mount Gundabad and rogue trolls they fought. And they removed the wights from the North Downs there, and made the barrows livable dwellings. But their hatred for the Dunedain ever remained, because of Imrod, and the lack of reciprocating aid from Gondor, and the bitter slaughter at the Anduin River.

And that is the Tale of Nardor, one of the greatest tragedies in the history of Arda. But Turin’s line lived on, and so did Maglor’s and they became one.

Many will wonder why Sauron himself left Dol Guldur for this conquest. The true reasons are not known, and perhaps he saw that only with his power could the Blue Wizards be destroyed. The physical embodiment of his spirit, and the dreadful wounds suffered however drained much of his power, and he would not be able to take a physical for a long long time. 


This tale actually falls nicely in place with one of Tolkien's ideas. He stated that the Blue Wizards may have joined the enemy, but later said they probably were instrumental in delaying the War of the Ring in the West. As it turns out, they most certainly were. Had they not fashioned Nardor into the war machine that challenged Mordor's might, Gondor certainly would have fallen long before the time of Aragorn.

Obviously this is still a work in progress and will be subject to many modifications and revisions.........by me.


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## Brand of Dale (Mar 2, 2012)

Come on in people, and read of the tragedy. One amendment here. Maglor had dealings with the Blue Wizards. You see, when Alatar and Pallando and Curunir journeyed into the east they were searching for Maglor. Curunir gave up and returned, but the Blue Wizards persevered, and found him. When he became king of Nardor, the Blue Wizards put forth their power to veil the young realm from the malice of Sauron. And that was key, for Nardor was weak in its beginning, and had Sauron destroyed them quickly, Gondor would have fallen many centuries before the time of Aragorn. But Sauron did not invest much thought into any other surviving Numenoreans besides the Faithful. Indeed, had he strengthened his gaze to the south he would have seen through the Blue Wizards spell, and perceived the Nardorians. But the Last Alliance and Maglor came and went, and Nardor slowly increased its strength, guarded by the Veil of the Blue Wizards, although none of the Nardorians knew they were being protected by Alatar and Pallando. None but Maglor had known, and when he died his secret died with him. Only in the days of Calaher when the Blue Wizards revealed themselves did the full extent of the aid from the wizards become known.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Mar 2, 2012)

You seem to know a lot about Nardor. Is it from reading Bard's writing or is there another website out there with information/fan fiction that one can read up on this if one is interested in learning more?


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## Bard the Bowman (Mar 13, 2012)

Actually Brand is Bard. I am Brand. Brand is me. I am Bard and Brand. However, through the Tale of Nardor we get insight into the delay of Sauron's attack on Gondor, the Mouth of Sauron, and the cause of the fall of Arnor.


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## Bellandor (Apr 25, 2012)

On the "Glittering Caves" thread I did say that I would up the offer of reading your Fanfic. I have to say I do admire your creativity,vision, and patience in bringing about a piece of work that is worth the read. 

Science fic/fantasy names always get to me when I read writings like this and it makes it slow going so I have only read the first piece. 

You have even given my favourite Vala a place in your fanfic and I still think Maglor would have to be the founder of the hobbit colony. :*D


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## Troll (Apr 29, 2012)

I finally forced myself to read this awful thing in its entirety. All I have to say is, _really_? _This_ is what Bard was so obsessed with? :*down


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## Erestor Arcamen (Apr 29, 2012)

Well it's in the past, a dark age of TTF is now beyond us, let us hope that this sort of evil/blasphemy may never again occur.


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## Only Mountain (May 6, 2012)

I really like this story. I also read the sequel on The Floating Log. Not as pure, but still enjoyable.


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 6, 2012)

Only Mountain said:


> I really like this story. I also read the sequel on The Floating Log. Not as pure, but still enjoyable.



So just curious, what's your username mean? Speaking about a specific mountain or anything?


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## Only Mountain (May 6, 2012)

It's taken from _The Soddit, _written by A.R.R. Roberts. A parody of the Hobbit. He calls Rivendell the Last Homo House, and the Misty Mountains the Minty Mountains. The Lonely Mountain is called the Only Mountain.


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 7, 2012)

Sounds kind of offensive/annoying to me. Why parody something already so perfect...


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## Only Mountain (May 7, 2012)

Well, um, good for you? Why should I care if it offends you? It isn't inherently offensive so I don't really care. You are making a ignorant statement. Read the book, then comment


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 8, 2012)

Well you should care because if you continue down the path you're going you'll likely be banned as you i mean your predecessor was...


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## Only Mountain (May 8, 2012)

I disagree. I shouldn't be banned for not caring about an unfounded absurd opinion from a biased ignorant member.


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## HLGStrider (May 8, 2012)

EA is allowed to have an opinion on whether the information you have provided about the book provides a glowing recommendation or one makes it out to be a book with offensive material he should avoid.
According to forum rules, you do not have a right in calling him ignorant and biased which are undeniably personal attacks.


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## Only Mountain (May 8, 2012)

HLGStrider said:


> EA is allowed to have an opinion on whether the information you have provided about the book provides a glowing recommendation or one makes it out to be a book with offensive material he should avoid.
> According to forum rules, you do not have a right in calling him ignorant and biased which are undeniably personal attacks.



Defintion of Ignorant: Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.

So you see, EA hasn't read the book, and therefore is lacking knowledge and information on the subject.


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## HLGStrider (May 8, 2012)

Adjective:


Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.



As I mentioned in the infraction I just gave you, if you can't see how your statement is insulting to EA, then you obviously are lacking basic communication and interpersonal skills. I'm not going to split hairs with you on definitions of words. You can say, "well, I meant it in the best possible way," but if you continue to communicate with other forum members are you are currently communicating and see no problem with it, then I am left to assume you somehow lack the ability to tell when you are being insulting to another individual which is unfortunate, but it isn't my job to teach you how to behave. I have a four-year-old. Teaching her to behave is a higher priority than instructing strangers over the world wide web. . .and also far less frustrating.


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## Only Mountain (May 9, 2012)

Obviously the definition that suits the situation is the one I intend. But since you are splitting hairs, I will revise my statement. Erestor, you are ignorant in matters concerning _The Soddit_. Better?

Are there any questions concerning Nardor?


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## Troll (May 12, 2012)

Yes, I have a question: who will be answering such questions now that Bard the Bowman, the author of Nardor and the only person who ever gave a toss about it, has been banninated?

*I shall take this grave and solemn duty upon myself, as keeper of Bard's legacy.* As such, let me tell you a bit of the lore of Nardor that came to me after a careful examination of Tolkien's text and dropping a lot of acid:

It is a little known fact that the Fell Beasts, famed as mounts of the Nazgul, were native to Nardor and only became part of the Dark One's army after he conquered that land. Previously, the Fell Beasts were known as Sparkleponies, which in the Nardorian dialect of Adunaic means "adorable fluffy winged critter." You see, during the days of Nardor's supremacy, the Sparkleponies often had lustrous coats in all the colors of the rainbow. Pink ones were especially prized, and the emblem of the royal house of Nardor (the descendants of Maglor and Tuor) was a pink Sparklepony. The Nardorians would ride their Sparkleponies as Elves would horses, without bridle or saddle. Sparkleponies, being naturally gentle creatures of good humor, would often converse with their human companions, and tea parties were the commonly accepted means of social interaction between esteemed elder Sparkleponies and Nardorians of good breeding.

When Sauron conquered Nardor, he had all the Sparkleponies shaved of their adorable fur and forced them to wear saddles when carrying his Ringwraiths about. The slavery and ensuing inhumane conditions caused the deaths of many Sparkleponies due to heartbreak. Many more died as a result of suffocation on the noxious gases belching forth from Orodruin or the even more noxious gases that issued from the Nine every time Sauron made his famous five-alarm chili. (In reality, the recipe was one of Morgoth's. As the Wise may recount, Melkor was the author of the cayenne pepper, which, like all his works, was meant for evil but in the end redounded to the delicious.)

However, the Sparkleponies, like all Nardorians, played an important role in defeating Sauron: if the Witch-King's Sparklepony, who was originally named Petalblossom before her capture and enslavement, had not allowed Eowyn to slay her, the Witch-King's knee would have remained outside of the midget-ey reach of Meriadoc Brandybuck. In this way, Petalblossom redeemed both herself and all the race of Sparkleponies, and was instrumental in bringing freedom to the lands of Middle-Earth.

In recognition of their service to Gondor, King Elessar declared that he would personally participate in the mass shaving of horses until he had gathered enough fur to make full-body wigs for the remaining Sparkleponies. Their gratitude towards Gondor was eternal, and, in the peace and tranquility of the Fourth Age, eventually their numbers grew to the point where the Reunited Kingdom was able to launch an Osgiliath-Annuminas airline.


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## HLGStrider (May 12, 2012)

I was going to say something about not provoking people on here, but then I read the whole post and lol'd at least twice so I'm just going to say that humor is allowed on the forums as long as it isn't cruel, which, since this is mocking a work of fiction and not a person, this isn't, and let it stand.

Cayenne really can be delicious in an evil sort of way.


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## Only Mountain (May 12, 2012)

Actually Troll I am now the keeper of Nardor, having been bequeathed the responsibility by Bard himself and as you all seem to think I am Bard, I am the only one worthy to continue this great tale. In fact, I provided a good deal of the inspiration for this magnificent tale, so I put as much, if not more thought into the story than Bard the Bowman. Therefore we will discard your cow-pat of a post, and once more leave the floor open for questions concerning Nardor, to be answered exclusively by me.


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## HLGStrider (May 12, 2012)

Only Mountain said:


> Actually Troll I am now the keeper of Nardor, having been bequeathed the responsibility by Bard himself and as you all seem to think I am Bard, I am the only one worthy to continue this great tale. In fact, I provided a good deal of the inspiration for this magnificent tale, so I put as much, if not more thought into the story than Bard the Bowman. Therefore we will discard your cow-pat of a post, and once more leave the floor open for questions concerning Nardor, to be answered exclusively by me.



Good luck with that.

You'd think someone who is such a fan and defender of the Soddit would have a greater appreciation of parody as an art form.


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## Only Mountain (May 13, 2012)

Why do you say I am "such" a fan and "defender" of _The Soddit? _I simply hate ignorance of a particular subject. That's what I speaking against. Erestor was ignorant of the details of _The Soddit. _And Troll's post was, frankly, a waste of time. Terrible at best. Very immature and juvenile.


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## Troll (May 13, 2012)

Only Mountain said:


> Actually Troll I am now the keeper of Nardor, having been bequeathed the responsibility by Bard himself and as you all seem to think I am Bard, I am the only one worthy to continue this great tale. In fact, I provided a good deal of the inspiration for this magnificent tale, so I put as much, if not more thought into the story than Bard the Bowman. Therefore we will discard your cow-pat of a post, and once more leave the floor open for questions concerning Nardor, to be answered exclusively by me.



I think we shall not discard anything. Rather, I think that as you are merely a "Registered User" - whereas _*I*_ bear the official title "Lorekeeper of Nardor" - I shall be gracious enough to extend to you an invitation to ask _me _questions about Nardor. Your claim to inheritance through Bard the Bowman lacks substance, as Bard was stripped of all titles and possessions when he was thrust through the Doors of Night.

- - - - -

I have received in private correspondence a query related to Nardor, the answer to which I have been permitted to share with you all, though I am on my honor not to reveal its asker. The substance of the query is thus: "if Nienor was grossed out enough by the idea of having slept with her brother that she tried to kill herself, how can it possibly be considered a kindness for Ulmo to have saved her? Also where'd the Nardorians find Gurthang, especially since it broke when Turin killed himself with it, and also it was buried with him?"

The answer is simple, of course: Ulmo, besides having dominion over water, is also the Vala of psychotherapy, obstetrics, and grave robbery. Nienor required a great deal of the first two in order to make her contribution to the parentage of Nardor. Turin, sadly, was served only with the third of the aforementioned three arts. Ulmo wears many hats indeed, one of which has a light on the front so that he can see while digging at night.


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## Bellandor (May 13, 2012)

Only Mountain said:


> It's taken from _The Soddit, _written by A.R.R. Roberts. A parody of the Hobbit. He calls Rivendell the Last Homo House, and the Misty Mountains the Minty Mountains. The Lonely Mountain is called the Only Mountain.



I spotted this book in a secondhand bookshop a while ago and decided against buying it because of its heavy use of language. It is totally the opposite of The Hobbit.:*D

The writer of Nardor had done a superb effort to maintain his integrity through the interpretation of his fanfiction Nardor. Not one person has responded back to him in kind as to the reading of his work.

Anyway I give 7 out of 10 for effort and 8.5 for a great read and look forward to his edited version. :*up


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## Only Mountain (May 13, 2012)

Whatever you want Troll. Whatever makes you happy. For someone who claims to detest the legend of Nardor, you spend a lot of time on it. It appears I've hooked another one. So go ahead and answer your own questions about Nardor. 

Thank you Bellandor for your feedback. I can only hope my writing is one day transposed into a short film.


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## Troll (May 13, 2012)

Good; I'm glad that's settled.

So, are there any more questions concerning Nardor?


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## Only Mountain (May 13, 2012)

Any questions for the author of Nardor concerning Nardor? As I created this story I am the only one qualified to answer. Anything at all, from the numbers of the Nardorians to their peak territorial power.


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## Prince of Cats (May 13, 2012)

Only Mountain said:


> _ [...] _And Troll's post was, frankly, a waste of time. Terrible at best. Very immature and juvenile.



Really? I've found his contributions as Loremaster of Nardor very well-conceived. They have revitalized my interest in fan fiction, and Nardor especially :*up


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 14, 2012)

Only Mountain said:


> Any questions for the author of Nardor concerning Nardor? As I created this story I am the only one qualified to answer. Anything at all, from the numbers of the Nardorians to their peak territorial power.



You _didn't_ create this story, Bard did, so are you saying you're Bard?

@Troll. I found a Sparklepony in it's pre-Sauron form:

View attachment 5165

Oh and since Troll became loremaster, this is becoming the best fanfic ever!


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 18, 2020)

Interesting read! I like how it pays homage to Maglor, the Blue Wizards, and Nienor. The discussion following the story perhaps even more entertaining...

It would be nice to see a bit more of Aragorn's role in this, perhaps some of the hardships and struggles against them in the North, maybe some of his labours in the East were related


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 18, 2020)

Anything related to Bard the Bowman aka Only Mountain should be locked away in the darkest pit as the Witch King was in PJ's mutated version of The Hobbit.


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## Elthir (Jun 18, 2020)

Ahh . . . the old(er) days of Nardor and the opinions about Smaug in the War of Wrath.

How time flies like a dragon in the War of Wrath.


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## Olorgando (Jun 18, 2020)

Elthir said:


> How time flies like a dragon in the War of Wrath.


Like ol' Ancalagon?
Got bonked by Eärendil and loses it so badly as a result that he totally trashed Thangorodrim by crashing into it.
Kind of exhibiting the daintiness and grace of, oh, let's say that Yucatan asteroid that exterminated a lot of his distant relatives.
I can just picture Morgoth seriously expanding the Valar vocabulary on the "colorful" side after *that* display! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤣


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 18, 2020)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Anything related to Bard the Bowman aka Only Mountain should be locked away in the darkest pit as the Witch King was in PJ's mutated version of The Hobbit.



Well as long as he keeps writing things like this, by all means lol



Bard the Bowman said:


> Nardor is a work of fan fiction. However, it is clearly inspired by Tolkien's universe in which the events of the Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings take place. If you have any questions concerning Nardor feel free to ask them.
> 
> Doesn't anyone want to learn about Nardor?



Hey, would you mind if I added to your epic?


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 20, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> Well as long as he keeps writing things like this, by all means lol
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, would you mind if I added to your epic?



He won't answer, he was banned for bad behavior so consider Nardor and any of his other tripe as open source 😁


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## Olorgando (Jun 20, 2020)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> He won't answer, he was banned for bad behavior so consider Nardor and any of his other tripe as open source 😁


EA, I have the impression that E(A) is not the only one who has been deleting posts here (he only being able to delete his own). I may be wrong, but I have the feeling that there may be gaps - which can really make a thread confusing … 🤯


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## Olorgando (Jun 20, 2020)

And then "The Soddit" kept nagging at the back of my head.
There was splurge of books in German (originals and translations) that accompanied the TH films, including parodies, two of which I bought, along with several other books: two anthologies similar to 1992's "After The King", a collection of JRRT's writings, and a mock "scientific study" of Hobbits.
Some were reprinted from the earlier splurge that accompanied the LoTR films.
Among them was the German translation of "The Soddit", "Der Hobbnix", a slang take meaning about "Havenuthin'".
The original is from 2003, the German translation from 2004, and my version a 2012 reprint.
I found it better than the 2011 / 2012 "The Wobbit" / "Der Wobbit", where the parody was just a bit too forced.
And it was very likely much more strongly "naturalized" to Germany than TH, in the slang (not dialect) that the Dwarves speak.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> He won't answer, he was banned for bad behavior so consider Nardor and any of his other tripe as open source 😁



I only hope that anything I contribute will live up to the lofty expectations of this epic.


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

I (added) invented Nardor the Dragon.

Just sayin 🐉


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Elthir said:


> I (added) invented Nardor the Dragon.
> 
> Just sayin 🐉



Huh? The author is clearly stated, and I don't approve of plagiarism. Please be respectful of community guidelines


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

But Nardor the dragon lives in Nardor.

I also invented the Nardorian Chronicles . . . but they're about Nardor of course.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Elthir said:


> But Nardor the dragon lives in Nardor.
> 
> I also invented the Nardorian Chronicles . . . but they're about Nardor of course.



Can I read these works of plagiarism anywhere?


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

I think they are in either the Nardor thread (this one), or maybe in the _Was Smaug in the War of Wrath_ thread (considering dragons), but wherever they are, if I recall correctly, they were only quick references to things in the already invented Nardor.

🐾


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

I read the preceding posts, but the only serious literature I found was the original in this thread. Please respect the community guidelines


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

> I read the preceding posts, but the only serious literature I found was the original in this thread. Please respect the community guidelines



Well, I didn't say I had invented serious literature anywhere, only that I had invented these things, ideas if you will, as possible contributions to Nardor. In light of . . .



Spirit of Fire said:


> I only hope that anything I contribute will live up to the lofty expectations of this epic.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

I will always pay homage to the original author, which I feel you are loath to do. For someone who disparages a written work (given what I've read in the threads), you seem oddly intent on claiming credit for it.


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

Clarification: contributions to, not credit for.

I do not want credit for creating the Nardor epic.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Then why would you be so adamant about stating that you created it?

I use "credit" to denote authorship, not necessarily merit.


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

I said invented two things . . . not created the epic.

And I don't want credit for the epic regarding authorship.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Elthir said:


> I said invented two things . . . not created the epic.



Semantics. So you "invented" a work of mockery? Once again, I don't think this behaviour falls within the community guidelines


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

Admittedly I sometimes joke in a mocking way, so I apologize to Bard if he took it ill (too late I know, but if he ever comes back and looks in here). I note also my far more recent conversations with *Norrinrad* with respect to my Khamul references, although Norrin seemed to take it as intended, and we are on friendly terms as far as I know.

Bard was banned and kept coming back, and (in my opinion) could have been nicer to folks at times, although that doesn't give me the right to mock his Nardor epic, so again, apologies Bard, wherever you are these days.

🐾


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> Semantics. So you "invented" a work of mockery?




By the way, "work" of mockery? I believe it had been clear enough what I "invented" before you posted this. And in case it isn't crystal yet, I don't want any credit, in any measure, for the Nardor epic.

No offense to you . . . or again, Bard


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Okay cool. I just hope I joined a friendly, fair, and respectful community here. I've been on other forums where the atmosphere can be confrontational and bully-like. 



> By the way, "work" of mockery? If you want to bring up semantics, I believe it had been clear enough what I "invented" before you posted this.


I merely was pointing out what you wrote was mocking the author. Once again you are playing semantics.


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

Well, you could have chosen "ideas that mocked" instead of "work" for example, which, at least
in my opinion, seemed to link back to your earlier statement of plagiarism -- again, possibly suggesting that I had written some, as you say, "serious literature" about Nardor somewhere.

So, that's why I pointed it out. For myself, I'm not into fan fiction in general, but I'm certainly not against it.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 20, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> EA, I have the impression that E(A) is not the only one who has been deleting posts here (he only being able to delete his own). I may be wrong, but I have the feeling that there may be gaps - which can really make a thread confusing … 🤯



He definitely had posts deleted in his time so there may be gaps. I wasn't a mod during the time he was here so if there were posts in this thread that were permanently deleted, I can't see them. There were several other threads he started and then would not merely debate other members but attack them personally for not agreeing with him and having differing opinions. And he would make posts with incorrect information that went against Tolkien canon and when corrected, again, attack other members. So he was a toxic member who didn't fit in with the environment that TTF tried to provide for members.

@Spirit of Fire, Elthir was clearly joking and not breaking any "community guidelines." This "epic" on Nardor by Bard was never more really than a theory he had that he began to write some fanfiction for but never finished (and was never taken seriously) for the above reasons of being banned. It looks like he was also on another forum and unless he was banned there too, you could write to him and see if he minds you continuing his story or to see if he wrote more if you're worried about plagiarism.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Elthir said:


> Well, you could have chosen "ideas that mocked" instead of "work" for example, which, at least
> in my opinion, seemed to link back to your earlier statement of plagiarism; again, possibly suggesting that I had written some, as you say, "serious literature" about Nardor somewhere.
> 
> So, that's why I pointed it out. For myself, I'm not into fan fiction in general, but I'm certainly not against it.



I was merely talking about the claims relating to Nardor and being the authority on it. If serious, is fraud. If mocking, is I think unnecessarily spiteful, given there appears to be a tenuous relationship with the true author. 



> It looks like he was also on another forum and unless he was banned there too, you could write to him and see if he minds you continuing his story or to see if he wrote more if you're worried about plagiarism.


May I ask which forum? I won't speak to posts which go against Tolkien canon (since I haven't seen any that do - fan fiction is just a bit of fun, not really an affront to canon), but it appears a lot of work has gone into this epic here which would be unfair to disrespect.


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2020)

Thanks *EA.*

Good to hear that I (seemingly) haven't annoyed everyone here! One of the reasons I sometimes delete a post is that it's off topic, and, if trying to be humorous, I'm not sure how it will come across in this medium.

I try to delete quickly before anyone responds to whatever it is, as I realize deleting can cause confusion, but *Gando *was too quick in the Bombadil/enigma thread for example. That said . . .

. . . I'll try to improve on second guessing my posts, whether personal information I decide not to share, of fears of my sense of humor going unintentionally awry! Or whatever!


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Cool! Engaging ideas are great, especially when we're all respectful of the work others have put in.


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## Olorgando (Jun 20, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> I merely was pointing out what you wrote was mocking the author. Once again you are playing semantics.


I have just spent quite a bit of time reading this thread (the much smaller portion of time) and "Was Smaug in the War of Wrath?" (the much larger portion of time). Bard the Bowman's fanfic on Nandor on the first page of this thread really wasn't bad (though I have read next to no fanfics - a few that I started off on soon had me thinking "Whoa! Take it easy, don't pile stuff on like that!"), and I know that is something I'm not capable of. Somehow I'm more of a "researcher" - much more into nonfiction writing that fiction by orders of magnitude. That said, I not so rarely find myself treating JRRT's works as "non-fiction". It's that suspension of disbelief that I think JRRT got down better than any author I've ever heard of. I mean, just look at the "Do Balrogs have Wings" and Tom Bombadil" threads, probably on any JRRT site, and I guess I'm not alone in suspending my disbelief, and there are 18 books of in total almost 8,000 pages (in my paperback versions) to mine.

That said.

We are here dealing with a sort of "history", as JRRT himself wrote in the foreword to the second edition: "I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers." With history, we are mostly dealing with plausibilities (probability and statistics, as in all social sciences, and far more of natural science than most people probably realize). I personally hesitate to go beyond "more / less probable than ...". "Two thirds" or "three quarters" - if stated as "more than" with good arguments (or "less than" for their complements) - I guess so, hesitantly. But if someone starts putting numbers behind the decimal point, I start to get a rash (I was confronted, over 40 years ago, with a mathematical course in macroeconomics where they did this and I was thinking "guys, you error margin is obviously plus/minus 5 percent! What's with the decimal places, fer cryin' out loud?"). And one's "more than / less than" conclusions depend on one's personal assumptions - something even needed in natural sciences as a starting point for experiments. But a true scientist would then, if the results do not turn out as expected, go back and take a look at the assumptions.

"Was Smaug in the War of Wrath?"

Not impossible, certainly. Also not proven, equally certainly. But Bard the Bowman's posts very quickly made me think "What's his problem?!?" (And I am 99.99 percent sure Bard is a he). No one in that thread posted more ad hominem attacks on those dissenting with him than he did. Not even in sum total. So in one sense, Spirit of Fire, I would not have the slightest problem with anyone mocking this author. On a "good" day, I could probably be appropriately vicious.

In another sense, and one of the opponents posted in that sense, I have the fear that Bard needs professional help. His inability to tolerate disagreement from others seems to be close to nonexistent (now what does *that* remind me of in current news?!? ). Pointing to a non-trivial narcissistic condition. No, I'm not a professional. But what I have read about such things (this is part of my non-fiction interest that I mentioned above) puts me pretty close to some of them. And I have encountered some lazy ones that might very well have profited from my "amateur" knowledge.


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## Olorgando (Jun 20, 2020)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> He definitely had posts deleted in his time so there may be gaps.


I just let fly a longish post concerning Bard near its end. I will not retract anything, I stand by my Grendel-mode posts when I consider them justified.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 20, 2020)

Interesting points, Olorgando. There is a thread dedicated to Smaug's possible appearance in the War of Wrath, and let's try not to stray into the realm of politics (unless there's a thread somewhere on here where that is appropriate). Bard may not have acted in the best manner, but personally I see a lot of goading and inciting from some other members (perhaps indicating a history?) so it may be shared fault. 

Back on topic, we should just be able to read fan fiction for what it is, and if we enjoy it, great. We can engage and possibly add, and if we don't enjoy it, perhaps it's best to avoid that thread if courtesy and respect are absent.


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## Olorgando (Jun 20, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> ... let's try not to stray into the realm of politics (unless there's a thread somewhere on here where that is appropriate).


Nope, no politics or religion threads allowed. I was "only" referring to news, but there's this titanic Obvious One ...


Spirit of Fire said:


> Bard may not have acted in the best manner, but personally I see a lot of goading and inciting from some other members (perhaps indicating a history?) so it may be shared fault.


A huge majority of the posts that Bard went "ballistic" on in the sense of replying with ad hominem attacks would not even have elicited a shrug from me. Not worth even that (and no, I'm not the Dalai Lama). And I have massive sympathy for a huge majority of the replies that slapped him down. Mainly with quotes from JRRT's writings.


Spirit of Fire said:


> Back on topic, we should just be able to read fan fiction for what it is, and if we enjoy it, great. We can engage and possibly add, and if we don't enjoy it, perhaps it's best to avoid that thread if courtesy and respect are absent.


As I mentioned above, if there is one thing I should not get involved in is any kind of fiction writing. I'm desperately trying to think of something I'm equally bad at. Only General Relativity Theory and Quantum Mechanics come to mind (and the only thing I know about them is that … what Socrates is supposed to have said about 2,500 years ago).


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> Nope, no politics or religion threads allowed. I was "only" referring to news, but there's this titanic Obvious One ...



Well, I didn't say you were, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to see where you're heading. So, like I said, let's try not to stray into the realm of politics. 

Personally, I didn't really see any ad hominem attacks from either side. I observed annoyance and frustration from both sides, and bullying from one, which I think guaranteed there wouldn't be a resolution resulting from the discourse. The members in question needed to change within themselves, and it appears that wasn't achieved. Like I said, more than what you and I may be witnessing, there appears to have been a history between Bard and the others.

Back to the fan fiction, let's just sit back and enjoy it. I like the idea of Nardor, another morally ambiguous realm with stakes in both sides.


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## Olorgando (Jun 21, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> Personally, I didn't really see any ad hominem attacks from either side.


Here I disagree. I see plenty, and originating quite one-sidedly.


Spirit of Fire said:


> Like I said, more than what you and I may be witnessing, there appears to have been a history between Bard and the others.


That's another matter. Quite plausible, perhaps Erestor Arcamen or another staff member have more insight into this.


Spirit of Fire said:


> Back to the fan fiction, let's just sit back and enjoy it. I like the idea of Nardor, another morally ambiguous realm with stakes in both sides.


Hmyes. But what is to be found on page one of this thread is, in its compressed form, rather akin to the annals that JRRT was also quite fond of creating, leading to Appendix B in RoTK. Or actually, as date entries are missing, closer to Appendix A. I guess I (we?) can repeat Erestor Arcamen's question from back on 03 March 2012 "... is there another website out there with information/fan fiction that one can read up on this if one is interested in learning more?"
Something that I find plausible, but I found no references (let alone links) to any such expanded version.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> Hmyes. But what is to be found on page one of this thread is, in its compressed form, rather akin to the annals that JRRT was also quite fond of creating, leading to Appendix B in RoTK. Or actually, as date entries are missing, closer to Appendix A. I guess I (we?) can repeat Erestor Arcamen's question from back on 03 March 2012 "... is there another website out there with information/fan fiction that one can read up on this if one is interested in learning more?"
> Something that I find plausible, but I found no references (let alone links) to any such expanded version.



From what I read, and continue to read, I believe Erestor Arcamen's query was pure mockery, if not spite.


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> ( . . . ) I have the fear that Bard needs professional help. His inability to tolerate disagreement from others seems to be close to nonexistent (edit for brevity). Pointing to a non-trivial narcissistic condition.




Bucky thought he was a web troll, and unless I'm mistaken, in theory these kind of "trolls" want to stir up trouble, and thus, I would think, expect to get the reactions they get, and arguably delight in the "feeding" as they say.

It's not impossible. But who knows? And as we can see from this thread, it appears Bard came back and tried to act like he was someone else, which caused further unrest.

I'll note that when Ando posts, he often, and rightly, puts me in my place. He does not have his own account here of course, but since he is almost as handsome as I am, even my avatar works well enough for him. And when he jumps in and bans me, I already know I deserve it. Deep down, Ando and I are almost the same person, except, for a notable example, that I know far more about Galadriel than he does.

Which irks him, I think


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 21, 2020)

Correct, once Bard was banned and maybe even before, he had several fake accounts (we know because the IP was the same) where he pushed the Nardor fanfiction as if it was some masterpiece in storytelling. I and others were perfectly willing to accept he had written a story and it wasn't awful but then he was only satisfied if he got constant praise and love for it which is when users like Bucky and Troll (literally his username) had had enough and stopped taking him and his posts seriously. I think that's where my post asking for more information came from, sarcastically acting as if I'd never heard of Nardor before when Bard and his alteregos were constantly ramming it down our throats. I'm assuming a lot of these have been deleted because when you ban someone it gives the option to delete all posts by said user; again, I wasn't a mod at the time so do not know actions what previous mods had taken. So most of his alternative accounts and their content is gone.


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

EA, do you know why Bard's "last seen" currently has no date of month or year, just Tuesday with a time? 

Is that a result of being banned before it could change?


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 21, 2020)

Elthir said:


> EA, do you know why Bard's "last seen" currently has no date of month or year, just Tuesday with a time?
> 
> Is that a result of being banned before it could change?



I'm not sure how banning works. He may still be able to login but just not post or interact with anything so it could be that he logged in on Tuesday of last week.


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## Olorgando (Jun 21, 2020)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> ...
> So most of his alternative accounts and their content is gone.


OK, so you _were_ sarcastic.
But the question, I would think, is quite legitimate.
I do have the impression that Bard's earliest posts were something of a synopsis of a larger work.
Did Bard post this here, but it has been deleted by the banning action, or was / is there someplace else where it could be read by those interested?


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Okay, thanks EA 👍

[Elthir stumbles off to find a Galadriel thread]


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 21, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> OK, so you _were_ sarcastic.
> But the question, I would think, is quite legitimate.
> I do have the impression that Bard's earliest posts were something of a synopsis of a larger work.
> Did Bard post this here, but it has been deleted by the banning action, or was / is there someplace else where it could be read by those interested?



I think he mainly just kept mentioning it in other threads at first as if it were canon and then this thread is the one where he wrote it out the most.

In the Glittering Caves he made mention of it and Maeglor surviving in these threads:









Peak Nardorian Population


Maglor undoubtedly wandered Middle-earth to the end of his days. He wandered everywhere, escaping from dark elves, and finally fought Smaug, but was driven back, amazingly alive. As he journeyed south he came to the Kingdom of Nardor. He married the first king's daughter, and thereafter, though...




www.thetolkienforum.com













The Fate of Maglor


Maglor undoubtedly wandered Middle-earth to the end of his days. He wandered everywhere, escaping from dark elves, and finally fought Smaug, but was driven back, amazingly alive. As he journeyed south he came to the Kingdom of Nardor. He married the first king's daughter, and thereafter, though...




www.thetolkienforum.com





I don't think there are other threads solely related to Nardor on TTfF, at least that haven't been deleted.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

It seems there are a lot of fragments relating to Nardor. As a staff member, Erestor Arcamen, are you able to collect them and perhaps put them in their own thread location (e.g. _Sandyman Mill or The Black Arrow _as a new grouping). Since they're on a number of different threads it would help to consolidate it. Y'all will know more than me, but on this particular thread it seems Bard freely admitted to his identity from his other accounts. He could have been a troll, although usually trolls won't put as much effort into their writing, as evident in this tale.


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> ( . . . ) but on this particular thread it seems Bard freely admitted to his identity from his other accounts.




In this thread, Bard, as Only Mountain, _eventually_ said:



> Actually Troll I am now the keeper of Nardor, having been bequeathed the responsibility by Bard himself and as you all seem to think I am Bard, I am the only one worthy to continue this great tale. In fact, I provided a good deal of the inspiration for this magnificent tale, so I put as much, if not more thought into the story than Bard the Bowman. Therefore we will discard your cow-pat of a post, and once more leave the floor open for questions concerning Nardor, to be answered exclusively by me.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

His other account, Brand of Dale, he openly admitted to being Bard, as well as from Only Mountain


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> His other account, Brand of Dale, he openly admitted to being Bard, as well as from Only Mountain




Where do you find, in this thread "as well as from Only Mountain"


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

Elthir said:


> Where do you find, in this thread "as well as from Only Mountain"



His post that you quoted is not difficult to interpret. Or are we to assume that interpretative reasoning should only be applied to your comments?


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Actually, eventually Only Mountain admits he "created" Nardor. I missed that, so my bad.

So yep, eventually he admitted it.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

Well he'll never know now that he was vindicated lol


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

> His other account, Brand of Dale, he openly admitted to being Bard, as well as from Only Mountain




Still, to my mind eventually is a notable distinction.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

Elthir said:


> Still, to my mind eventually is a notable distinction.



It depends what you mean by eventually. From what it looks like, Only Mountain spent the first few posts engaged in banter with Erestor Arcamen concerning his name. Immediately after that, he claimed the authorship of Nardor. It wasn't some sort of pressing ordeal to ascertain his identity, as "eventually" implies. 

P.S. To Erestor Arcamen, my staff member friend - any luck on the creation of the thread grouping?


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> Well he'll never know now that he was vindicated lol




EA seems to think Bard might have been here recently, on "Tuesday at 8:27 PM" according to his "last seen" reference as of today, no month or year at the moment -- but even if that's due to his being banned, maybe he'll be back someday. I'm guessing one can still read posts, even after being banned.

And yeah "eventually" could give the wrong impression. That said, Only Mountain could have freely admitted that he was Bard right away, before his banter -- although maybe the banning had something to do with it -- I can't recall the exact sequence of banning versus multiple accounts.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 21, 2020)

I'll admit, I probably was a bit impatient with him towards the end of his membership. I was sarcastic when I probably should have been nicer. My goal is to always try and stay positive and keep TTF as a good environment for everyone. I'm not perfect and have made mistakes too, and I probably would apologise to Bard as maybe he just needed someone to be more open to his writing. 



Spirit of Fire said:


> To Erestor Arcamen, my staff member friend - any luck on the creation of the thread grouping?



I'm definitely happy to help. Looking through the 'Only Mountain' account post history I don't see any new threads that they started. The main threads I could find regarding Nardor that Bard created are this one and the two I linked to in a previous reply. If you want, I can move them all here to the Golden Perch forum if you're interested.

Re-reading through this now, I was probably harsh in calling this writing "tripe" as it definitely isn't that bad really just not something I'm personally interested in but if you are SOF, that's great and I'd say feel free to continue on with it. Maybe start a new thread here in Golden Perch since this one's gone kind of off the rails 😁?


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

Elthir said:


> And yeah "eventually" could give the wrong impression. That said, Only Mountain could have freely admitted that he was Bard right away, before his banter -- although maybe the banning had something to do with it -- I can't recall the exact sequence of banning versus multiple accounts.



I mean, what would the purpose be of claiming right away if you were to be banned right away? It doesn't look like there was any attempt to hide it, but it would seem weird to make that a declaratory introduction. 



> I'm definitely happy to help. Looking through the 'Only Mountain' account post history I don't see any new threads that they started. The main threads I could find regarding Nardor that Bard created are this one and the two I linked to in a previous reply. If you want, I can move them all here to the Golden Perch forum if you're interested.



That would be cool, the links are helpful but I foresee there may be some challenges sifting through it. Maybe all the threads could exist as a sub-forum?


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Spirit of Fire said:


> I mean, what would the purpose be of claiming right away if you were to be banned right away? It doesn't look like there was any attempt to hide it, but it would seem weird to make that a declaratory introduction.




As I said, I don't recall the exact sequence of banning versus multiple accounts, so I allowed for that possibility in any case.


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

Elthir said:


> As I said, I don't recall the exact sequence of banning versus multiple accounts, so I allowed for that possibility in any case.


Good good. I too always prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, especially in cases involving only text.


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## Olorgando (Jun 21, 2020)

I've been thinking ...

Anything trying at a side story for Middle-earth would need a map, I would feel, just out of tradition.
As quite a bit of the history is way south, perhaps something like this:









Lord of the Rings on Prime Updates (Thanks Varking!)


I want Harrison Ford to be in this show please. If he gets any more haggard-looking, he'd do for Hurin Released.




www.thetolkienforum.com


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## Spirit of Fire (Jun 21, 2020)

It looks really cool! Nardor I imagine would be in the deep south, perhaps near the mountain range close to the coast, or even much further east.


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## Elthir (Jun 21, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> I've been thinking …




I haven't.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Jun 22, 2020)

I do^^


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