# Were the Hobbits in the music of the Ainur?



## Aiwendil (Jan 15, 2002)

As a friend of mine related to me, the Hobbits awkened some time around the awakening of the men, yet there did not seem to be a theme for them.


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## Eonwe (Jan 15, 2002)

only two themes were mentioned...

But the vision of the music faded at the beginning of the dominion of men (start of 4th age?). So perhaps they were in the music...


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## Curufinwe (Jan 16, 2002)

Yeah it is pretty funny how they popped out of nowhere. There might have been some mingling of species to produce the hobbits.


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## Bill the Pony (Jan 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Curufinwe _
> *Yeah it is pretty funny how they popped out of nowhere. There might have been some mingling of species to produce the hobbits. *



Hmm. hobbit=mixture of dwarf & elf? It could be, since there were elf-man combinations too. Interesting thought, any of the wise ones on this forum who can come up with a reason why this could not be true?


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## Cian (Jan 16, 2002)

JRRT explained (italics as printed in _Letters,_ stuff in parentheses are Tolkiens):



> "The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically _human_ race (not Elves or Dwarves) -- hence the two kinds can dwell together (as at Bree), and are called just the Big Folk and Little Folk." JRRT


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## Bill the Pony (Jan 16, 2002)

Thanks, I never knew that. Is there also a reason why they look so different? Like lived in different environments or something?


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## Curufinwe (Jan 16, 2002)

And also why there ears and feet and size are so different.


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## Snaga (Jan 16, 2002)

*Hobbit ears*

I am willing to be proven wrong, but I think that the prosthetic ears of Elijah Wood, Ian Holm etc are pure Hollywood.

Feet is a different matter, and if you don't wear shoes you don't lose the hair on them. And if you have hairy feet with leathery soles, you don't bother with shoes. Not a huge evolutionary leap in my view. I doubt you'll get anything authoritative on this...


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## Greymantle (Jan 16, 2002)

In fact, Tolkien does state that Hobbits have somewhat pointed ears. "Only slightly pointed and elfish," I think he says; "elfish" not referring to his Elves, of course, but rather of the elves of folklore.


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## Snaga (Jan 16, 2002)

I knew I was tempting fate... Where does he say that? (PS they were more than slightly pointed in the film!!)


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## Greymantle (Jan 16, 2002)

True. Yet another thing I disagreed with!  The Elves' ears should have been differently shaped (IMO), and the Hobbits' less pointed. Darn, there I go acknowledging the movie's existence again!


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## Curufinwe (Jan 17, 2002)

The movie screwed up the ears on the elves. Elvish ears in my opinion should be like human ears but just a little pulled at the top , not too much to look stupid but abit.


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## Greymantle (Jan 17, 2002)

If I remember correctly, the only possible reference Tolkien makes to Elf-ears is (I think) the name of a certain group of the Eldar, which translated means something along the lines of "leaf-ear." That's seems a little shakey to me.  
I think that the examples of Men being mistaken for Elves, even among and _by_ Elves, (i.e. Turin) are more telling. If his ears had been pointed or otherwise significantly different from human ears, then it would have been very hard for anyone to mistake him for an Elf.
I guess it's all open to interpretation.


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## Wildcat98 (Jan 18, 2002)

*Hobbits in Silmarillion?*

I am currently reading The Silmarillion (just started the chapter on the fall of Gondolin). The origin of most of the inhabitants of Middle-earth have already been discussed (Elves, Men, Dwarves, Ents, Orcs, etc) with one exception of particular interest in LOTR. Hobbits. I'm curious as to whether they are mentioned at all in The Silmarillion, maybe I haven't gotten to that point yet?


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## Mormegil (Jan 18, 2002)

Hi and welcome to the forum. 

You wont find any reference to Hobbits in the Silmirillion bacause Hobbits didn't exist in the first age. They are descended from men and didn't really appear untill about Third Age 1000. They originated in the Vales of Anduin before migrating into Eriador in three tribes and setting up places like Bree, The Shire and Buckland.


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## Thorondor (Jan 19, 2002)

I am not so sure that they weren't around during the days of the Sil. I remember that somewhere it is stated the hobbits origins began far out of memory in the Eldar days. If it is accurate to say that they are a kind of sub-group of man, wouldn't they have woken at the same time? They were probably hanging out the whole time around the Anduin, with everyone ignoring them. They stayed away from the "big folk", dwarves were busy in the mountains, none of the Noldor passed east out of Beleriand until near the end of Morgoth's power, and Morgoth himself would have had no use for a weak little race like that.

Remember that during LotR, few of the people of M-e, knew that there were Hobbits around.


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## Walter (Jan 20, 2002)

They are indeed mentioned in the Sil: 

_"...and passed into a far distant country, even to the land of the Periannath, the Little People, the Halflings, who dwelt in the west of Eriador. And ere that day they had been held of small accountby Elves and by Men, and neither Sauron nor any of the Wise save Mithrandir had in all their counsels given thought to them."_ Silmarillion - Of the rings of Power

There is not much more said about the hobbits though, except for another short paragraph were in brief words it is mentioned that Frodo and Sam had the ring destroyed at Mount Doom.


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## TulKas Astaldo (Jan 22, 2002)

That was a sort of mini-sequel, it hardly counts... We're talking about The Silmarillion in its main text during the First Age...

By the way though, the book does not contain the word Ent a SINGLE TIME... It once mentions something along the lines of 'and down from the mountains came the shepherds of the trees' near the end of the book when the armies of the Valar arrive and the Orcs haul out of Beleriand.


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## Walter (Jan 22, 2002)

Welcome to our forum, Tulkas, 

but...umm... what exactly is Your point?


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## Gary Gamgee (Jan 22, 2002)

"...and in every age there come forth things that are new and have no foretelling, for they do not proceed from the past."

This is from Sil what it means i'm not quite sure. Hobbits are related to Men so this must mean that they appeared in the 1st age..."...for they do not proceed from the past."...hmm


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## Mimzy (Feb 3, 2011)

The hobbits are just a group of Men/humans. Just like the Khoisan are a group of humans.


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