# Who were the heros and/or mighty warriors?



## Celebthôl (Aug 9, 2003)

> "That would be no good," said the wizard, " Not without a mighty Warrior, even a Hero. I tried to find one; but warriors are busy fighting each other in distant lands, and in this neighbourhood heros are scarce, or simply not to be found.



Who were the heros and/or mighty warriors that Gandalf refures to?

The only ones i can think of are Arathorn and the Edain, but they would be "in the neighbourhood". They as far as i know were never in distant lands fighting each other at this time, the only Edain i recall ever going to distant lands was Aragorn, and he was either very young or not born at the time of the quest of Erabor.


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## jimmyboy (Aug 9, 2003)

Since he was about 90 years old during the War of the one ring, Aragorn would have been about 30 years old at this time, and was already, I believe, out and about on his wanderings. I think it's a good guess that Gandalf had in mind the Dunedain/Rangers and some of the souther/Gondor-ites when he was talking about Heroes and warriors. Of course there were also several mighty elves and dwarves in the earth at that time too, so surely he could have had them in mind. He could also have been speaking of past Heroes and warriors, and we've become well acquainted with many of them already: Tuor, Elendil, Gil-Galad, etc.


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## BlackCaptain (Aug 9, 2003)

What scene is this we're talking about? The Lonely Mountain battle thing? Oh well... I'm sure it was just another fairy tale, childrens book story element to make this world sound more glorious and all that. I doubt theres any answer out there...


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## Feanorian (Aug 9, 2003)

Well maybe not but The Hobbit did have some connections with Tolkien's other writings, one such example would be the swords found in the Troll Cave....after reading the Sil I could never quite understand how Thorin could use a High-Noldorian Sword.....


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## Celebthôl (Aug 10, 2003)

Its in the chapter "An unexpected party" where Gandalf expains why he chose burglery...


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## Aulë (Aug 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Feanorian _
> *after reading the Sil I could never quite understand how Thorin could use a High-Noldorian Sword..... *



And why not?
He certainly would have been strong enough.
And it was not rare to see Dwarves wielding swords in battle.


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## Celebthôl (Aug 10, 2003)

He never weilded it in battle, it was swiped off him by the Elven king  and he used a double headed axe in the B of 5 A, the only time he used it was in the caves of the goblins...not what id call a battle.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 10, 2003)

Aragorn was 10 at the time, not 30.


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## Feanorian (Aug 10, 2003)

> And why not?
> He certainly would have been strong enough.
> And it was not rare to see Dwarves wielding swords in battle.



Well how tall were the Elves of Gondolin? Especially Turgon? and now how tall was Thorin....werent some of the Elves upwards on 7 or 8 feet tall? and Dwarves 4 or 5? Seeing how swords are long weapons anyways it would probably be taller then Thorin...it would look akward.....I never said it wasnt possible.


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## Wolfshead (Aug 10, 2003)

Given it being a simplified childrens story, I would say he would be referring to any great leader of men. People like (although it wouldn't have been them personally) Faramir, Boromir, Eomer and Aragorn. Heroes was simplified to mean valiant soldiers, or something along those lines.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 11, 2003)

The Noldor on average were 7 feet. Elendil was 7"11- Turgon was taller. Tolkien never mentions a specific height for Turgon but it must have been VERY tall. 

Orcrist wasn't _Turgon's_ sword, it was a sword of Gondolin. One can presume that Glamdring which was Turgon's sword would be longer then Orcrist if you account for Turgon's great height. Orcrist is noted by Elrond as being a 'famous blade' presumably worn by one of the lords of Gondolin.


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## Celebthôl (Aug 11, 2003)

Maybe even Glorfindel  or Ecthelion


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## Laereth (Aug 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CraigSmith _
> *Given it being a simplified childrens story, I would say he would be referring to any great leader of men. People like (although it wouldn't have been them personally) Faramir, Boromir, Eomer and Aragorn. Heroes was simplified to mean valiant soldiers, or something along those lines. *



This was the first thing that came to my mind... Almost everything that appears both in The Hobbit and LotR differs somewhat, meaning that in The Hobbit things are portrayed in a more childish way while in LotR they are darker... So the same thing probably applies here - when Tolkien said heros and warriors, he meant the fairytale concept of heros and warriors.


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## jimmyboy (Aug 12, 2003)

> Aragorn was 10 at the time, not 30.


I'm 99% certain that Aragorn was about 90 years old at the time he led Frodo and the Hobbits to Rivendell. That was approximately 60 years after Bilbo first acquired the Ring; that would make him about 30 years old at that time.


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## Maerbenn (Aug 13, 2003)

*Age of Aragorn*



> _Originally posted by jimmyboy _
> *I'm 99% certain that Aragorn was about 90 years old at the time he led Frodo and the Hobbits to Rivendell. That was approximately 60 years after Bilbo first acquired the Ring; that would make him about 30 years old at that time. *


 From Appendix B:


> 2931 Aragorn son of Arathorn II born on March 1st.





> 2941 Thorin Oakenshield and Gandalf visit Bilbo in the Shire. Bilbo meets Sméagol-Gollum and finds the Ring. The White Council meets; Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur, since he now wishes to prevent Sauron from searching the River. Sauron having made his plans abandons Dol Guldur. The Battle of the Five Armies in Dale. Death of Thorin II. Bard of Esgaroth slays Smaug. Dáin of the Iron Hills becomes King under the Mountain (Dáin II).


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## Turgon (Aug 13, 2003)

I did a little thinking about this question and came up with a little theory. 

LoTR tells us that:



> _from Appendix A - Part IV - The Stewards_
> 
> 'Ecthelion II, son of Turgon, was a man of wisdom. With what power was left to him he began to strengthen his realm against the assault of Mordor. He encouraged all men of worth from near or far to enter his service, and to those who proved trust worthy he gave rank and reward.'



For a brief moment I thought I might be on to something - the dates seemed to fit (Ecthelion being the father of Denethor) and it would have been be the perfect explaination as to who these heroes were and where they had got to. (I hate seeing The Hobbit dismissed a simple children's tale) 

Sadly I was out by twelve years - Ecthelion did not come into his stewardship until TA 2953.

So what do I know?


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## jallan (Aug 17, 2003)

I think Tolkien's remark about heros and warriors was originally a somewhat sardonic jest about the normal activities of heros and warriors in legends.

So often they are fighting against each other and killing each other.

I think we are to understand that Gandalf did have some particular warriors in mind who might be of dragon-slaying status and who might have been interested but they all happened to be occupied at the moment in other business.

Who they might be is therefore irrelevant to _The Hobbit_ and later irrevelevant to _The Lord of the Rings_ because any mortal heroes active at that time would have been dead and gone by the beginning of Frodo's quest. There was no reason to speak of such.

Of course Elvish heroes as like as not would be involved with the White Council's driving Saruman from Dol Guldur, something that Gandalf is not prepared to speak about openly until it has happened.


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