# Water and Elves



## Nenya Evenstar (Jan 20, 2003)

> _The Silmarillion_
> But it is said among the Elves that it lay far off in the east of Middle-earth (Cuvienen).... Many waters flowed down thither from heights in the east, and the first sound that was heard by the Elves was the sound of water flowing, and the sound of water falling over stone.


The first sound the Elves heard was the sound of water. Could there be any connection between this first sound and the love of water that was born afterwards in the Race of Elves?


> _The Silmarillion_
> The greatest host came last, and they are named the Teleri.... in water they had great delight, and those that came at last to the western shores were enamoured of the sea. The Sea-elves therefore they became in the land of Aman, the Falmari, for they made music beside the breaking waves.





> _The Silmarillion_
> Those were the Nandor; and they became a people apart, unlike their kin, save that they loved water, and dwelt most beside falls and running streams.


Was this seeming love of the water caused by the first sound the Elves heard?


> _The Two Towers_
> To Legolas she sent this word:
> _Legolas Greenleaf long under tree in joy thou hast lived. Beware of the Sea! If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more."_


Does the Sea Longing also have something to do with this? Or is the Sea Longing simply something that is caused because of a longing for Aman in the far West?


> Now Ulmo, by the counsel of the Valar, came to the shores of Middle-earth and spoke with the Eldar who waited there, gazing on the dark waves; and because of his words and the music which he made for them on his horns of shell their fear of the sea was turned rather to desire.


Does this also connect?


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## Maedhros (Jan 22, 2003)

> The first sound the Elves heard was the sound of water. Could there be any connection between this first sound and the love of water that was born afterwards in the Race of Elves?


I think that it also has a connection with the fact that water is the real of Ulmo who happened to be the Vala who was most instructed of Music by Ilúvatar.


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 23, 2003)

I believe that the love of water/sea is something that is present in the subconsciousness of every Elf; possibly, it is reminiscent of the road to Valinor, the Undying Lands, where they belong and where their true home lies. The sound of waves, which is in fact the voice of Ulmo, is (I imagine) a constant reminder of the bliss that awaits them over the sundering seas.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Jan 24, 2003)

> By the starlit mere of Cuiviénen, Water of Awakening, they rose from the sleep of Ilúvatar; and while they dwelt yet silent by Cuiviénen their eyes beheld first of all things the stars of heaven. Therefore they have ever loved the starlight, and have revered Varda Elentári above all the Valar.





> Many waters flowed down thither from heights in the east, and the first sound that was heard by the Elves was the sound of water flowing, and the sound of water falling over stone.


 Does this then mean that, of the Valar, the Elves held Ulmo second in reverance?

Now, if all this is true, why did the Elves fear to get the Sea Longing? Why was Legolas depressed when he heard Galadriel's message? Was it simply because they did not want to leave Middle-earth? Or is this a contradiction?


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 24, 2003)

I think it was reluctance to leave Middle Earth, which they fell in love with.
Those Elves that never saw the Light of the Two Trees were more reluctant than those that did.
Look at the example of Celeborn and Galadriel. Though Lady G loved Middle Earth (in her youth she dreamed of it), she was glad to take the Straight Road at the end of the Third Age. Celeborn was unwilling, he wanted to stay for a time still and enjoy the lands where he lived his whole life. When did he get the longing for the Sea? What about Cirdan? All his life he dwelt by the shores but he did not sail to Aman, but tarried.


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## ms Greenleaf (Jan 27, 2003)

wATER IS associated with innocence and elves are the closest being on me to being innocent

Another thing completely unbrelated is that it my exsperience the ocean the OPEN OCEAN with wavees is very learing. i HAVE BEEN THERE OONCE AND i AM ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT IT.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 20, 2004)

Also why did some Elves "love" water then others? Was it intrinsically a part of some Elven races to "love water" more then others, just like say, the Ñoldor who loved to obtain knowledge from the start?

The Nelyar Avari (pre-cursors to the Teleri) loved water or admired it more then the others. They were at the forefront of Elven water navigation. For example, Círdan began to perfect his boat skills off the Sea of Rhûn. Any reason for this? 

Did they have a closer bond with Ulmo then the other Valar? They didn't really interact much with the events in Valinor, anyway. They loved Ossë for one, and Uinen. Is their natural bond with Aulë similar to say, the Ñoldor’s bond with Aulë?


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## Confusticated (Apr 22, 2004)

Reading down the thread I was thinking along the lines of Inderjit. Why those elves more than others?

I really think the simplest explaination is best: God made them that way for variety.

Speaking of the Legend of the Awakening of the elves and of the sound of water, I'll point out a similar thing happend with the stars. It is also said that the female elves' love of their spouses is before their love of Arda because these saw their mate first of all things. Because of the stars and the females' love of their mates, I am inclined to think the clan of elves that would become the Teleri woke to the sound of falls that the other elves did not, and it is for this reason they loved water more. This same thing could explain their being the great singers.

Could perhaps be that all Quendi slept by the lake with equal potential, but the Teleri/Nelyar aquired so much love of song that they spent less time with technical thought, and the Tatyar/Noldor therefore happened to be the wizards. My personal belief is that the elves did sleep with equal potential but their circumstances in which they woke were staged, to shape them early on. I believe culture and expectations of their society are to blame for the fact that these traits continued to exist among the elves many generations later. I mean, is technical-mindedness that hereditary? Could all generations love stars and Varda because of the first thing seen by the earliest elves? This is Middle-earth, so who knows?

I would agree that the Noldor's relation with Aule was much like Osse and Uinen's with the Teleri. I think it was like this: The characteristics with drew these specific groups of elves to these specific Ainur (and Ainur to these elves) were even further enhanced by interaction with and instruction from the Ainur which utilized those characterists. Being taught smithcraft by Aule who liked their hunger or skill and knowledge woud only make the Noldor better at it and more interested in it, for example.

For anyone not familiar with the Legend of the Awakening of the elves or with the clan names Tatyar and Nelyar, you could read about it in _Quendi and Eldar_ in HoME 11.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 22, 2004)

To take this discussion a bit further, if we put Nom's theory in practice, is this also the reason for the more bellicose or impetuous attitude of the descendants of the Tatyar in comparison to the more amiable Nelyarin and Vanyrain Elves?

Let’s face it, as adorable as they are, the Ñoldor were pretty aggressive in comparison to the other Elves. Their Middle-Earth relations were worse, they were unfriendly, perfidious and exuded some kind of variant of 'Old Spice', the spray for manly men. Or Elves. Whatever. Were they like this because of some kind of Eru decree?


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## Mimzy (Feb 3, 2011)

yeah i would say second only to starlight. to Teleri, it might even be above starlight.


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