# Did Maglor and Maedhros fight in war of wrath?



## Turin_Turambar (Apr 4, 2021)

Are there any quotes from an article or book about maglor and maedhros fighting in the war of wrath? Did these two brothers fight in the war of wrath?


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## Alcuin (Apr 4, 2021)

Not according to _Silmarillion_. In “The Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath”, it says
Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned long afterwards from their kinsfolk in Aman. … And such few as were left of the three houses of the Elf-friends, Fathers of Men, fought upon the part of the Valar…​I could be wrong – Lord knows I have been! – but I interpret the passage to mean that the Eldar, the Noldor and Sindar of Beleriand, as well as those few of the Dark Elves who had fought (such as the Green Elves and the Lenwë under Denethor, the Nandor Elf of the First Age), stayed out of the war and let their kinsfolk from Valinor along with the Maiar fight; but those that remained of the Three Houses of Men chose to fight alongside the Maiar and Calaquendi. 

After Tulkas, the only Vala to accompany the Host of the West, once more bound Morgoth with Angainor, then Eönwë the Herald of Manwë took the remaining two Silmarils from Morgoth’s crown and placed them under guard in his army’s camp. Maedhros and Maglor argued about what to do: Maglor was all for setting aside the terrible Oath of Fëanor that he and his father and brothers and had sworn, submitting themselves to the mercy of the Valar; but Maedhros reminded him that they had named Eru Ilúvatar Himself as witness to their oath, and on that basis despaired that they could break it, to which Maglor reluctantly consented. 

Now this was a grave mistake on the part of the brothers: To a good Catholic like Tolkien, they had succumbed to despair, underestimating both the willingness and the mercy of Eru to forgive them, and the exercise of that will and mercy through His regent, Manwë. Instead (_ibid._),
[T]hey disguised themselves, and came in the night to the camp of Eönwë, and crept into the place where the Silmarils were guarded; and they slew the guards, and laid hands on the jewels. Then all the camp was raised against them, and they prepared to die, defending themselves until the last. But Eönwë would not permit the slaying of the sons of Fëanor; and departing unfought they fled far away. Each of them took to himself a Silmaril, for they said: “Since one is lost to us, and but two remain, and we two alone of our brothers, so is it plain that fate would have us share the heirlooms of our father.”

But the jewel burned the hand of Maedhros in pain unbearable; and he perceived that it was as Eönwë had said, and that his right thereto had become void, and that the oath was vain. And being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm filled with fire, and so ended; and the Silmaril that he bore was taken into the bosom of the Earth,

And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him; and he cast it at last into the Sea, and thereafter he wandered ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves. For Maglor was mighty among the singers of old, named only after Daeron of Doriath; but he came never back among the people of the Elves.​Thus in despair Maedhros committed suicide, Maglor lost his sanity, and the Sons of Fëanor remained forever the Dispossessed.


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## Turin_Turambar (Apr 4, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> Not according to _Silmarillion_. In “The Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath”, it says
> ​Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned long afterwards from their kinsfolk in Aman. … And such few as were left of the three houses of the Elf-friends, Fathers of Men, fought upon the part of the Valar…​​I could be wrong – Lord knows I have been! – but I interpret the passage to mean that the Eldar, the Noldor and Sindar of Beleriand, as well as those few of the Dark Elves who had fought (such as the Green Elves and the Lenwë under Denethor, the Nandor Elf of the First Age), stayed out of the war and let their kinsfolk from Valinor along with the Maiar fight; but those that remained of the Three Houses of Men chose to fight alongside the Maiar and Calaquendi.
> 
> After Tulkas, the only Vala to accompany the Host of the West, once more bound Morgoth with Angainor, then Eönwë the Herald of Manwë took the remaining two Silmarils from Morgoth’s crown and placed them under guard in his army’s camp. Maedhros and Maglor argued about what to do: Maglor was all for setting aside the terrible Oath of Fëanor that he and his father and brothers and had sworn, submitting themselves to the mercy of the Valar; but Maedhros reminded him that they had named Eru Ilúvatar Himself as witness to their oath, and on that basis despaired that they could break it, to which Maglor reluctantly consented.
> ...


but in the article on this site it is written that maglor and maedhros participated in the war. Is there any truth to that?








War of Wrath – The Silmarillion Series


Posts about War of Wrath written by Jamie Parsons




silmarillionseries.com


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## Olorgando (Apr 4, 2021)

Writings in fanfic sites rate very, very, *very* lowly as any kind of "proof" (far lower than even PJ's films).


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## Turin_Turambar (Apr 4, 2021)

Olorgando said:


> Writings in fanfic sites rate very, very, *very* lowly as any kind of "proof" (far lower than even PJ's films).


Are the articles on my site really fan-made? because they put some middle earth books as a quote at the bottom.


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## Alcuin (Apr 4, 2021)

Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> Are the articles on my site really fan-made? because they put some middle earth books as a quote at the bottom.


No, not if you can cite your sources from Tolkien’s work. That would be material from JRR Tolkien’s work, his son Christopher’s work, some publication that uses and cites Tolkien’s work (specifically something like _Parma Eldalamberon_ or _Vinyar Tengwar_), a Tolkien interview (from JRR or Christopher), or a recognized Tolkien scholar such as Carl F Hofstetter, whom Christopher Tolkien chose to edit the next volume in _History or Middle-earth_, or Wayne Hammond and Christine Scull, or Douglas Anderson, Tom Shippey, &c. And you need to be able to cite what work and what chapter; in a written essay (as opposed to posting on a forum like _The Tolkien Forum_, which is far less formal), you should also cite the page number, and if appropriate, the edition (some editions are materially different). 

What you must _not_ do is form an opinion and insist that it’s Tolkien gospel; and if you do form an opinion and insist it’s correct, then find it’s _not_ correct, you have to admit it and own up to your mistake. I had to do that recently, and though crow tastes really awful, it’s sure beats looking foolish or being a jerk. And that rule holds not only on Tolkien forums and essays, but for the rest of life, too: We all make mistakes. 

If you cannot cite sources for your positions, and it’s your _opinion_ or your _preference_, you can still say what you think, just be sure to let everyone know that it’s your opinion or your preference. That’s acceptable, too, but you can’t present it as fact. That’s part of the reason people get mad about Peter Jackson’s movies. (There are lots of reasons people get mad about Peter Jackson’s movies, but substituting his story for Tolkien’s is a big issue for lots of folks.) Besides, you don’t want to ruin your reputation! 

So if it’s your opinion, by all means tell us! but also tell us it’s your _opinion_. If you think it’s fact, cite the fact and where we can find it. *If it’s your conclusion based on the material,* tell us how you get there so we can decide to agree or disagree, and don’t take it personally when not everyone agrees. You might believe Balrogs have wings for twenty years, and suddenly wake up one day to discover they don’t have wings but do wear fuzzy slippers (house-shoes: it’s from the old animated Bashki version of _Fellowship of the Ring_). Just be honest and open about what you’re saying and why you’re saying it.


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## Turin_Turambar (Apr 4, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> No, not if you can cite your sources from Tolkien’s work. That would be material from JRR Tolkien’s work, his son Christopher’s work, some publication that uses and cites Tolkien’s work (specifically something like _Parma Eldalamberon_ or _Vinyar Tengwar_), a Tolkien interview (from JRR or Christopher), or a recognized Tolkien scholar such as Carl F Hofstetter, whom Christopher Tolkien chose to edit the next volume in _History or Middle-earth_, or Wayne Hammond and Christine Scull, or Douglas Anderson, Tom Shippey, &c. And you need to be able to cite what work and what chapter; in a written essay (as opposed to posting on a forum like _The Tolkien Forum_, which is far less formal), you should also cite the page number, and if appropriate, the edition (some editions are materially different).
> 
> What you must _not_ do is form an opinion and insist that it’s Tolkien gospel; and if you do form an opinion and insist it’s correct, then find it’s _not_ correct, you have to admit it and own up to your mistake. I had to do that recently, and though crow tastes really awful, it’s sure beats looking foolish or being a jerk. And that rule holds not only on Tolkien forums and essays, but for the rest of life, too: We all make mistakes.
> 
> ...


No no, the site does not belong to me. a site I found on the internet.I made a typo in my previous message.


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## Alcuin (Apr 4, 2021)

Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> No no, the site does not belong to me. a site I found on the internet.I made a typo in my previous message.


That’s ok! Same deal applies to them: Do _they_ cite sources for their positions? _Silmarillion_ seems to indicate that nor Maedhros nor Maglor nor any of the Elves of Beleriand fought in company with the Host of the West, though the surviving Edain did. But afterwards, Maedhros and Maglor acted murderously, unwisely, and generally very badly. Do they cite a source that says otherwise, and can you find it?


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