# Men in the undying lands



## Nick Stephan (Dec 29, 2021)

Why were men banned from entering the undying Lands?


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## Erestor Arcamen (Dec 29, 2021)

Copied this answer from Reddit:
Source



> Thundercleese brings up a good point saying that:
> 
> A mortal would feel embittered there since everything is deathless there except for them. Jealousy would eat at the mortal until they were truly unhappy
> 
> Which is stated in the Silmarilion. Men are mortal because Eru says so. It's also stated in the Silmarilion that the death of men is "The Gift of Illuvatar." The negative connotations of death have only arisen due to the work of Melkor. While Elves are bound *to Arda, and must share in its sorrows until the end of days, men are free to leave it.



If you read the Silmarillion, you can find the answer to this.


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## Alcuin (Dec 30, 2021)

The natural fate of Men, the “Gift of Men,” as the Elves call it, is to leave the Circles of the World. Men in Aman would not die, but according to “Aman and Mortal Men” in _Morgoth’s Ring_, any Mortal who entered Aman did not lose his Mortality, as Sauron lied to Ar-Pharazôn, but the natural balance between the _hröa_ (body) and _fëa_ (spirit) would be upset. Once in Valinor, it was believed the _fëa_ of a Mortal would seek to leave the _hröa_, and that if it were unable to do this, the _fëa_ would go mad; while if the _fëa_ departed, the _hröa_ would act without guidance, effectively becoming a monster.


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## Aldarion (Dec 30, 2021)

Nick Stephan said:


> Why were men banned from entering the undying Lands?





Alcuin said:


> The natural fate of Men, the “Gift of Men,” as the Elves call it, is to leave the Circles of the World. Men in Aman would not die, but according to “Aman and Mortal Men” in _Morgoth’s Ring_, any Mortal who entered Aman did not lose his Mortality, as Sauron lied to Ar-Pharazôn, but the natural balance between the _hröa_ (body) and _fëa_ (spirit) would be upset. Once in Valinor, it was believed the _fëa_ of a Mortal would seek to leave the _hröa_, and that if it were unable to do this, the _fëa_ would go mad; while if the _fëa_ departed, the _hröa_ would act without guidance, effectively becoming a monster.


This. Essentially, they would become either Gollums or Ringwraiths: gaining immortality maybe, but at a horrendous price.


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## ZehnWaters (Jan 1, 2022)

My understanding was that they die FASTER there because the life energy burns up their body. Wasn't that why it didn't matter Frodo and Bilbo and Gimli went? They were already going to die soon anyhow?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jan 1, 2022)

Possibly. But consensus seems to be they didn't go to Valinor, but only to Tol Eressea. I think Tolkien may have said this himself, but I'd have to check.


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## Elthir (Jan 1, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> My understanding was that they die FASTER there because the life energy burns up their body.



At least according to the same text *Alcuin* quoted above (Morgoth's Ring, _Myths Transformed_ text XI), the lifespan of Men in Aman could not be altered. Tolkien even refers to the line *"wither even as a moth in a flame too bright"* . . .

. . . this text includes: *"Beyond these words we can but go in guess. Yet we may consider the matter so"* . . . and so on . . . that is, the speed of Men's growth, and the length of their lifespan, could not be altered.

💥


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## Olorgando (Jan 1, 2022)

Elthir said:


> . . . that is, the speed of Men's growth, ... could not be altered.


Including increasing belt lengths? 😟


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## Alcuin (Jan 1, 2022)

I recall that Tolkien once considered that the heir apparent of the King of Númenor might be granted a short stay (overnight, or at most a few days) in Tol Eressëa, though I believe I also recall that he discarded it. In any case, the Dúnedain (i.e., the Númenóreans) were not permitted to sail west beyond sight of their island, which precluded their approaching Eressëa. Even _if_ Tolkien retained the notion that the heir apparent of Elros were permitted to visit, he could go no further west: his disembarkation was Avallónë, and I don’t know that he was given even a tour of the island, nor allowed to visit its western shore to gaze upon the shores of Eldamar, the mainland of Aman.


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