# Melkor in Hall of Mandos for life?



## Old Man Willow (Jul 31, 2003)

It's been some time since I've reviewed the Sil and I'm not quite sure on what exactly the fate of Morgoth was. I recall the Valar casting him into the Hall of Mandos, but then some time later releasing him. Then I remember reading of Sauron's betrayal of Melkor and Melkor eventually being cast into a darkness gaurded by Earendil, Sailor of the Skies.


Hopefully, some of you can clear this up for me.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 31, 2003)

Melkor was executed by Namo and fled to the void. Legend has it when he re-gains enough strength he will return, in the Dagor Dagorath. 

Melkor was cast into the Halls of Mandos after they overthrew him to protect the newly awakened Elves.


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## YayGollum (Jul 31, 2003)

Huh. I don't remember reading anything that said Mel was killed. When you're dead, how can you flee? And why would he flee to the the Void place where he can't get out? oh well. Anyways, I don't remember reading that that Earendil person was guarding him. I thought that was someone else and the Earendil person didn't have much to do with Mel. Maybe I'm just crazy.


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## Eledhwen (Jul 31, 2003)

He's permanently in chains, isn't he? Though the seeds of malice he sowed when active had effect throughout the ages of Middle Earth.


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## Confusticated (Jul 31, 2003)

From the Silmarillion, Voyage of Earendil:


> But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Doors of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void; and a guard is set for ever on those walls, and Earendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky.



From HoME X, Notes on motives in the Silmarillion:


> Morgoth was thus actually made captive in physical form, and in that form taken as a mere criminal to Aman and delivered to Namo Mandos as judge – and executioner. He was judged, and eventually taken out of the Blessed Realm and executed: that is killed like one of the Incarnates.


It then goes to say that we read that he was thrust into the void, and notes that this should mean outside of time and space but probably just means outside of Arda. It adds then men and elves were apt to confuse the Void, the state of being outside of Ea, with vast spaces within it. The reason it gives that Void probably refers to outside of Arda is that it would have require intervention of Eru to put him out of Ea.


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## Old Man Willow (Aug 1, 2003)

So his physical form is extermintated while his spirit is left out in the void. Yes, I knew Earendil had something to do with it. He sails the skies in his ship "Vingilot" and at the same time, "gaurds" Morgoth's spirit form coming back into Arda.


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## Inderjit S (Aug 1, 2003)

Legend has it that when Melkor comes back, he will cast down the sun and moon and Earendil will descend upon him with great smiting anger and smite him down to the Earth with his smiting anger. Oh this is some pish-wash story of Men which they claims came from Namo. Or their backsides. 

Though this does bring up some interesting questions, like: Did Earendil have a Playstation 2 on Vingilot? and...How did he get his copies of playboys when he was in the void?


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## Eledhwen (Aug 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Inderjit S _
> *Though this does bring up some interesting questions, like: Did Earendil have a Playstation 2 on Vingilot? and...How did he get his copies of playboys when he was in the void? *


***sigh!*** oh, that so lowers the tone! Everyone knows he'd have to use a hand-held gaming machine!


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## Feanorian (Aug 2, 2003)

> Then I remember reading of Sauron's betrayal of Melkor



Huh? What?!


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## Angmar (Aug 10, 2003)

I do not think Sauron ever betrayed Melkor. He hid in Middle Earth when Melkor was captured (both times), but he was never mutinous to his Lord. In fact, he even convinced the Numenoreans (some of them, anyway) to worship Melkor as the true God.


> It's been some time since I've reviewed the Sil and I'm not quite sure on what exactly the fate of Morgoth was.


The first time he was captured, he was sentenced to pass three ages in the "fastness of Mandos, whence none can escape, neither Vala, nor Elf, nor mortal Man" (Sil, 2nd Ed., pg. 49). The second time, he was sent into the Void. It was prophecied that he would not return to Middle Earth until the Last Battle. Originally, Professor Tolkien intended Turin Turambar to finally slay Morgoth in the final battle and avenge the House of Hurin. I believe that he eventually changed the idea of Turin slaying him, and that Morgoth's final fate is not known (other than that he will be defeated in the Last Battle).


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## Flammifer (Aug 12, 2003)

Yeah this brings up another thing that I constantly think about - I WANNA SEE THE LAST BATTLE! Bah! It'd be soooooooooooo cooooooollll! And I love the idea that Morgoth get slain by Turin, if anyone was gonna do it it'd be Turin or Tulkas!


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