# The Unwritten Book



## Valandil (Sep 24, 2004)

What "Unwritten Book" by Tolkien would you most like to read? For me, it would be "The Chronicles of Arnor" - and would tell ALL ABOUT Arnor, Arthedain (and sister nations) and the Northern Dunedain in the time of the chieftains. Each king and chieftain, their families, their struggles, the lifestyles, towns, the customs, etc., etc.


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## Astaldo (Sep 24, 2004)

I would like to read something like "The Lost Kingdom of Khazad-dum" or "The Chronicles of Erebor" os something about Dwarves.


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## GuardianRanger (Sep 24, 2004)

A couple of things that come to mind might be:

The Blue Wizards
The Haradrim

Two subjects that really are not touched on much (at least, as far as I know without having read HOME.)


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## Barliman Butterbur (Sep 24, 2004)

Valandil said:


> What "Unwritten Book" by Tolkien would you most like to read? For me, it would be "The Chronicles of Arnor" - and would tell ALL ABOUT Arnor, Arthedain (and sister nations) and the Northern Dunedain in the time of the chieftains. Each king and chieftain, their families, their struggles, the lifestyles, towns, the customs, etc., etc.



I would like to have seen him write a book that deals with the lost road that leads from our world to Middle-earth!

Barley


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## Astaldo (Sep 25, 2004)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> I would like to have seen him write a book that deals with the lost road that leads from our world to Middle-earth!
> 
> Barley


Yeah. I would like to have a book like this


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## Aiwendil2 (Sep 27, 2004)

1. A full Tale of Earendil - this is the one major story in the Legendarium for which we have nothing but the very compressed accounts in *S*, *Q*, and the Annals of Beleriand.

2. A large-scale telling of the Fall of Numenor and the Last Alliance - this strikes me as being capable of sustaining more than a short work like the Akallabeth. I think that Amandil, Elendil, Isildur, Anarion, and Ar-Pharazon would make great characters in a novel-length version.

3. Maglor's _Noldolante_ - a full telling of the flight of the Noldor. Like the Fall of Numenor, I think this story has everything needed for a great novel.

4. _The Lost Road_ - I found this really intriguing, and I wish we had more than four chapters of it. I'd love to read some of the intermediate chapters, between the modern ones and the Numenorean - some of the ideas in the outline sounded very interesting.

5. Tal-Elmar - for some reason, this fragment really drew me in. I'm not sure whether it was really going anywhere, but I think it _could_ have gone somewhere good.


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## Inderjit S (Sep 28, 2004)

Great points, Aiwendil! I especially agree with point 2-I wish Tolkien had wrote about the Last Alliance more, numbers involved etc. who was there, and how Elendil and Gil-Galad killed Sauron. Also the story of Tal-Elmar sounded very interesting-I wish Tolkien had finished it.


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## Astaldo (Sep 28, 2004)

There are hundreds of pages that could be writen by Prof. Tolkien and many stories but his world is so huge that if he was still alive and could write we will still wanted more books about somethings that it is not explained very well


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## Inderjit S (Sep 28, 2004)

Of course-but then he would not have much of a life! Middle-Earth is so vast that it would have been impossible for him to explain everything and given that he kept on making changes or abandoning this or that text I don't think he could or would have done it.


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## Beleg (Sep 30, 2004)

I wish he had written more about Numenore, the most mystical and beautiful of his creations and given the various fragmantations scattered throughout his works a more expanded and coherent form.


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## greypilgrim (Sep 30, 2004)

I want to read more about Tom Bombadil. Of course, this creature was very powerful and important...*somehow*...maybe he was the embodiment of all unnacounted-for Maia spirits? 

Also, I want more 
Gandalf.

and also to know why the dwarves wore those masks they put on to fight that dragon in the Sil *reminds myself to read the Silmarillion again*


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## Eledhwen (Oct 9, 2004)

Inderjit S said:


> Of course-but then he would not have much of a life!


He spent much less of his time in Middle-earth than he would have liked. Look at the Letters, and how many are apologies for the lateness of this and that writing, because University duties and more mundane stuff like mowing the lawn got in the way, not to mention bouts of ill health.

I would like to read a full account of the life of Bandobras (Bullroarer) Took and the fell winter of 1311 (2911), as well as all the above


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## Barliman Butterbur (Oct 9, 2004)

Eledhwen said:


> ...I would like to read a full account of the life of Bandobras (Bullroarer) Took and the fell winter of 1311 (2911), as well as all the above



I don't know how many of you have ever read "The Wizard of Oz" by L. Frank Baum. His books were illustrated by John R. Neill. When Baum died, Neill took over the Oz series with many more books about Oz, in the same spirit, and some of his sequels were, I thought, even better than Baum's two or three Oz books. When I was a little boy, I loved those books, and my mother made sure to give me a new Oz book at every opportunity.

Perhaps someone will do the same with Tolkien's characters (although I highly doubt it). That person would have to be a writer of extraordinary ability and insight into Tolkien's writings, and gain the confidence of the Tolkien Estate. But I think it would be worth it, were someone of that quality actually to exist. Then you'd find out what happened to Bullroarer!

Barley


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## Astaldo (Oct 9, 2004)

I do not think that anyone (except Christopher) could write in the same way that Prof. Tolkien did.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Oct 9, 2004)

greypilgrim said:


> I want to ...to know why the dwarves wore those masks they put on to fight that dragon in the Sil...



It appears that the main purpose was to at least partially shield them from dragonfire, and a secondary purpose was to strike fear into their enemies:

"Last of all the eastern force to stand firm were the Dwarves of Belegost, and thus they won renown. For the Naugrim withstood fire more hardily than either Elves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great masks in battle hideous to look upon; and those stood them in good stead against the dragons. And but for them Glaurung and his brood would have withered all that was left of the Noldor."

Barley


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## Gothmog (Oct 9, 2004)

Just a point to think about. It was never JRRT's intention to try to write the whole saga of Middle-earth himself. Not even when he first thought about such a vast idea.

From Letter 131 To Milton Waldman (not surprisingly )


> Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story-the larger founded on the lesser in contact with the earth, the lesser drawing splendour from the vast backcloths – which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country. It should possess the tone and quality that I desired, somewhat cool and clear, be redolent of our 'air' (the clime and soil of the North West, meaning Britain and the hither parts of Europe: not Italy or the Aegean, still less the East), and, while possessing (if I could achieve it) the fair elusive beauty that some call Celtic (though it is rarely found in genuine ancient Celtic things), it should be 'high', purged of the gross, and fit for the more adult mind of a land long now steeped in poetry. *I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama*. Absurd.


So it may well have been the case that had any approached Prof. Tolkien during his life with a request to 'Fill out' some of the skeched stories he may have been happy for them to do so. However, that is something that we cannot now know.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Oct 9, 2004)

Gothmog said:


> ...it may well have been the case that had any approached Prof. Tolkien during his life with a request to 'Fill out' some of the sketched stories he may have been happy for them to do so. However, that is something that we cannot now know.



Ha! Fascinating! Opens up new vistas all right!

Barley


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## Lhunithiliel (Oct 10, 2004)

How about a full-length _*Feanoriada*_ ?!


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## Barliman Butterbur (Oct 10, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> How about a full-length _*Feanoriada*_ ?!



How about "The Prancing Pony: A History of the Butterburs of Bree"?

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Oct 12, 2004)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> How about "The Prancing Pony: A History of the Butterburs of Bree"?
> 
> Barley


I like it! Starting with the whole village waiting for old Hopman Butterbur's beer to be ready. He brewed it in his own home, of course, same as everyone else; but come mid-autumn, everyone in Bree had the same question on their lips "Is old Hopman's beer ready yet?" Until one year, by popular request, Hopman gave over more of his small plot of land to the growing of Hops and Barley than vegetables for his own use. Thus is was, more by accident than design, that Hopman and his son Darmalt needed to sell their beer so they could eat. They knocked down a wall to make two rooms into one, and opened the front parlour to all comers.

"What about a name, Dad?" Darmalt was standing outside, looking up at the front door as his father studied plans for a new wing for guest rooms. Hopman looked at his son. Darmalt's broad grin made his ruddy cheeks stand out like ripe apples, just like they did when he was a small tot; but in those days it was followed by a peal of merry laughter. 

Hopman remembered with fondness, his son standing at the garden fence, now torn up to accommodate the foundations of the new guest wing. He would watch for old Mrs Ferney's grey pony to pass. The old lady always smiled and winked at him, then whispered to her pony, "Yo, silver; Dance!" Silver would then arch her head proudly, and prance gaily for Darmalt, who rewarded the pair with a burst of his famous giggling laughter.

Darmalt became more serious after his mother died; and now had a good business head on his shoulders. But in a secret place in Hopman's memory, his son would always be his ruddy cheeked little boy. He thought in silence for a moment, enjoying his memories. Then, almost to himself, he said; "Call it The Prancing Pony."

"You know, Dad, that name makes me smile." laughed Darmalt. "Prancing Pony it is, then." Hopman smiled, and his rough old hand squeezed Darmalt's shoulder.

"I'll get to work on a sign." he said.


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## Firawyn (Oct 15, 2004)

I wish Tolkien had left more info on what he would still be writing were he alive today and shared it with someone so they could continue the sega. *frown* Why don't men think about the future?!?!


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## Barliman Butterbur (Oct 15, 2004)

Eledhwen said:


> I like it!...
> "You know, Dad, that name makes me smile." laughed Darmalt. "Prancing Pony it is, then." Hopman smiled, and his rough old hand squeezed Darmalt's shoulder.
> 
> "I'll get to work on a sign." he said.



By God m'lady, _but you can write a tale_ when you've a mind! I really enjoyed that! Keep going, keep going, that was wonderful!

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Oct 20, 2004)

Thanks for the encouragement m'dear Barliman!  

The writing of such ditties is probably the reason the book I am writing has yet to hit 50,000 words. I am so easily distracted by the rest of my life; and having read Tolkien's letters, I can quite understand that he took ten years to get the sequel to The Hobbit off the ground, and that the Silmarillion was never completed to his own satisfaction (how could it be? It was another growing, living world, like Leaf by Niggle).


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## Gothmog (Oct 20, 2004)

Of course there is another possible reason of the difficulty of getting his works to the publisher.

This is from "JRR Tolkien a biography" by Humphrey Carpenter:


> Tolkien had a passion for perfection in written work of any kind, whether it be philology or stories. This grew from his emotional commitment to his work, which did not permit him to treat it in any manner other than the deeply serious. Nothing was allowed to reach the printer until it had been revised, reconsidered, and polished – in which respect he was the opposite of C. S. Lewis, who sent manuscripts off for publication with scarcely a second glance at them. Lewis, well aware of this difference between them, wrote of Tolkien: '*His standard of self-criticism was high and the mere suggestion of publication usually set him upon a revision, in the course of which so many new ideas occurred to him that where his friends had hoped for the final text of an old work they actually got the first draft of a new one.*'


It is quite possible that Tolkien would never have got the Sil. finished to his satisfaction. No matter how much time he had to work on it.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Oct 20, 2004)

Gothmog said:


> Of course there is another possible reason of the difficulty of getting his works to the publisher.
> 
> This is from "JRR Tolkien a biography" by Humphrey Carpenter:
> 
> It is quite possible that Tolkien would never have got the Sil. finished to his satisfaction.



_More_ than merely possible, considering what actually happened...

Barley


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## Gothmog (Oct 20, 2004)

Ooops  

Well spoted Barly  I rushed the post and missed out a complete sentence  Post now edited to read as it should.


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## Eledhwen (Oct 21, 2004)

> His standard of self-criticism was high and the mere suggestion of publication usually set him upon a revision, in the course of which so many new ideas occurred to him that where his friends had hoped for the final text of an old work they actually got the first draft of a new one.


I'm using a public computer, so I can't remember what Tolkien was asked to write a foreword (or critique) of, but the result evolved into a new story of his own.


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## Eledhwen (Oct 27, 2004)

Yes, I'm at home and I've found it in the preface to letter 262. George MacDonald would have been delighted that persusing on his works should produce this gem of a story. I also read that Alf was based on the chef at Merton College.

I would like to find out what happened to those other hobbits that went off into the wilds, never to return (Tooks, usually).


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## Uminya (Oct 28, 2004)

If only Tolkien had the productive capacity of Issac Asimov....alas.

I wish that there was much more information on the dwarves, particularly the 4 Eastern Clans. More stuffs on the Dunlendings, Druedain, and Dragons would be awesome.

But most of all, I would like to know about the East, Entwives, and Ithryn Luin...

Perhaps we could clone the Professor...hm...


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## Firawyn (Oct 30, 2004)

Ciryaher said:


> Perhaps we could clone the Professor...hm...



Hear, hear! Let's do it!! 

Now really...do you suppose that people will continue what Tolkien started? I mean, many peple have done it with the Star Wars books.  

Do you think that is what he intented? What elso would he leave so much unfinished? It's not like him.


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## Eledhwen (Oct 31, 2004)

The internet is stuffed with stories and roleplays inspired by Tolkien, and many SF and fantasy writers got their inspiration from LotR. What Tolkien had in mind, though, was that there are events in his writings that are just mentioned or very briefly told; and he hoped that others would render a fuller telling of these stories. It's something I enjoy doing, but I really mustn't spend the time on it as it is a distraction from my own writing.

As for JRRT not having Isaac Asimov's production capacity, I say "Quality, not quantity!", but I also point to HoME 1-10, UT, The Silmarillion, and the many essays and shorter books written by Tolkien. Tolkien's mythology became a living thing, and so could only be finished when he was.


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 31, 2004)

Excellent suggestions made! It makes one drool, it does...  

In addition to all of the above, I'd love to read a detailed account on the Maiar, including the Blue Wizards and their actions in the East. Something like _The Maiaquenta_...


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## Erestor Arcamen (Nov 20, 2005)

Well, I know this topic is old but i have a few I'd like to add.

1. More on the history of the Dwarves. There's so much about the elves and all, but little on the dwarves in their great halls, of their adventures in Kazaad Dum or the IronHills.

2. The Entwives-a history of the ents, and more detail in the search of the entwives

3. This one would be tough, the end of Middle Earth, when the day of judgement would come and all and Illuvatar would glorify his chosen and all

thats just a few!


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## Noldor_returned (Nov 21, 2005)

Definetely ents. Probably more into Kings of Gondor, and more about the Maiar and Istari.
I would just like to point out that although someone said more about Tom Bombadil, I would have thought that is what the Adventures of TB is for. I have read the book, but I don't think it provides enough detail.


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## Halasían (Feb 17, 2006)

Valandil said:


> What "Unwritten Book" by Tolkien would you most like to read? For me, it would be "The Chronicles of Arnor" - and would tell ALL ABOUT Arnor, Arthedain (and sister nations) and the Northern Dunedain in the time of the chieftains. Each king and chieftain, their families, their struggles, the lifestyles, towns, the customs, etc., etc.


Yeah, I could go with that book, but also the one of Numenor and the sea voyages of that time.

Also, an in depth history and workings of Easterling, Haradian, and Khandese cultures would be interesting, for there is more to them than "they were evil men of Mordor"...


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## Eledhwen (Feb 19, 2006)

What part of the History of Middle-earth do we not want to read more about? Every little phrase that hints of a story untold; Bombadil remembering the previous owner of a brooch, Uncle Andy, the cats of Queen Beruthiel, the list goes on. 

I would like to read of the distribution of the sixteen rings of power; the silver-smooth words of Sauron as he made promises that matched the deepest desires of each king's heart. I would like to read personal accounts of the moment the elves became aware of Sauron's intentions. Did the kings of men realise they had been ensnared as Sauron put on his One Ring, and did they hate him for it before they were robbed of all that made them men; becoming rulers in name only as they sold themselves to the Dark Lord?


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## childoferu (Aug 11, 2009)

Beleg said:


> I wish he had written more about Numenore, the most mystical and beautiful of his creations and given the various fragmantations scattered throughout his works a more expanded and coherent form.


 
I agree wholeheartedly, and I would love a tale encompassing the Avari as well

p.s. brilliant that I am honored to bump


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## Elfarmari (Aug 26, 2009)

I wish Tolkien had succeeded in pulling together his world and connecting it to our own. He started this with the Lost Tales, and in my favorite uncompleted the stories the Lost Road and the Notion Club Papers. I really love the idea that Middle-earth is just an earlier phase in our own history, starting out with a mythological flat earth and being rounded out to the 'real' cosmology by Iluvatar after the fall of Numenor.


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## Bucky (Sep 10, 2009)

Well, when one thinks of that 'Ancient World brought to the Modern World' Theory, you cannot forget that Tolkien, devout Catholic, would've had to (and even hinted at) bringing Jesus Christ into the story as savior for fallen man.

I believe it's mentioned in HoME #10, 'Finrod And Andreth' where there is a statement about "a prophecy amoung our people of a man coming amounst us to restore us from the taint of Morgoth" or something to that like, but unmistakingly pointing to Jesus.


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## Prince of Cats (Sep 13, 2009)

I'd like more storries of Old Man Willow. And of rare hobbit children venturing into the old forest. Maybe just a day in the life of Tom Bombadil


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 9, 2022)

Of the unfinished works, the one I most regret-- after the full rewrite of _The Fall of Gondolin _-- is Tal-Elmar; so tantalizing that I "wrote" (in my head) a second chapter.


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 10, 2022)

The Valaquenta. Just more elaboration and expansion.
The Quenta Silmarillion


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## Ent (Nov 10, 2022)

Many great subjects for writing are mentioned in the course of this resurrected thread..! Thank you.

"The Blue Wizards" subject for example is mentioned, and is ground ripe for pursuit. What did they do 'in the East' since about TA 1000 when they arrived. Did they survive the destruction of Sauron, and if so what are they up to in the Fourth Age. etc.

For a dark one, Melkor. How did he go about creating/twisting all his dark creatures, etc. What uses did he put them to. What did he do with his 'failures'. Did he feed Orcs to his Dragons as they matured, or where did he get their foodstuffs given the land likely wasn't a productive source of lettuce and cabbage.

And naturally I agree with those comments made by two at least suggesting more about the Entwives and the search for them, and the Ents themselves.
That said, it would need to be written "about" them, certainly not "by" one of them.
The prologue alone would be the size of HoME, if it were written *by* them.

I'm sure many of us could actually write about things in addition to talking about them. Is anyone else encouraged by this?

Anyway the good news is the resurrection of this thread has got me thinking. The bad news is the resurrection of this thread has got me thinking.


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## Eljorahir (Nov 10, 2022)

Eledhwen said:


> Then, almost to himself, he said; "Call it The Prancing Pony."
> 
> "You know, Dad, that name makes me smile." laughed Darmalt. "Prancing Pony it is, then." Hopman smiled, and his rough old hand squeezed Darmalt's shoulder.
> 
> "I'll get to work on a sign." he said.


Wow, this thread has some real gems. This mini story about the origin of "The Prancing Pony" is awesome.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 10, 2022)

Always wanted to see "The New Shadow". It was suppose to be an LoTR sequel, but Tolkien quickly abandoned it. I would have also wanted some more extension on Elu Thingol and Melian, and also on Aredhel.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Nov 10, 2022)

The Lost Road was always really interesting to me.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 10, 2022)

I bet it would have been!


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 10, 2022)

The Ent said:


> "The Blue Wizards" subject for example is mentioned, and is ground ripe for pursuit. What did they do 'in the East' since about TA 1000 when they arrived. Did they survive the destruction of Sauron, and if so what are they up to in the Fourth Age. etc.


Or SA 1600, as the case may be.


The Ent said:


> And naturally I agree with those comments made by two at least suggesting more about the Entwives and the search for them


If memory serves, they were stated to never be found.


Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Always wanted to see "The New Shadow". It was suppose to be an LoTR sequel, but Tolkien quickly abandoned it.


Yes.


Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I would have also wanted some more extension on Elu Thingol and Melian,


Or, at least, a final revision.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 10, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> If memory serves, they were stated to never be found.


Tolkien said in a letter that he _thought _they hadn't survived. He could have had second "thoughts" later. Maybe.


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## Ent (Nov 10, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> If memory serves, they were stated to never be found.


Indeed. But imagine all the stories..! How the dumb male Ents were in their searches, the lives of the female Ents as they tended their fields, the obvious trauma that must have occurred when their lands were turned into The Brown Lands, etc.

A hundred stories could be built. 

And indeed, just because a remnant was never found doesn't mean one did not remain.

The male Ents, so selfishly fastened to their Forests, may never even have thought to go look in new areas primarily of fields and such where the selfish females would likely have moved to.

You know how we are when we're all 'entrenched in our ways..!" Sauron for example couldn't think outside his box either.

Of course, it would probably be good if the author didn't call them 'dumb' and 'selfish' in the course of the book, but well... there it is.


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## Ent (Nov 10, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> He could have had second "thoughts" later. Maybe.


And FanFic doesn't care. 😁 Write, write write.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 10, 2022)

Everybody's a critic. 
"Another thick, square book. Always scribble, scribble, scribble, eh, Mr. Gibbon?"


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## Elthir (Nov 10, 2022)

The Ent said:


> "The Blue Wizards" subject for example is mentioned, and is ground ripe for pursuit. What did they do 'in the East' since about TA 1000 when they arrived.



Exactly *The Ent!* Although I prefer the form _arrove_ in such a sentence, instead of arrived.

I hope it catches on!

As told in Appendix B [Third Age]: *"When maybe a thousand years had passed, and the first shadow had fallen upon Greenwood the Great, the Istari or Wizards appeared in Middle-earth." *

The number is even said here to be five. However, none of the five are said to be *blue *here, and thus I note that *The Ent* has wisely used these things *"" *around the appropriate words.

I'm starting to see, however, that since _Rings of Power_ has invented their Meteoric Stranger, this 
"SA 1600" business (for two of the five wizards arriving in Middle-earth) is flooding the interwebs again -- but it's being raised (at least where I've seen it in articles) without any context, as if to say: one day Tolkien wrote this, so there you go. 

But Tolkien wrote a lot of things. He wrote that "Strider" was a Hobbit with wooden feet too. Ah, some might say, but we know that _Strider as a Hobbit_ isn't true however, because Tolkien _published_ Strider as a Man, and he did so _after_ he'd written that Strider [Trotter] was a Hobbit, and the SA 1600 idea, although never published by JRRT himself, was written _after_ The Lord of the Rings was published.

To that I'd point to the Problem of ROS: where Tolkien wrote pages of text --_ after_ he had published _The Lord of the Rings_ -- based on a failed idea -- failed because he'd already published something that contradicted his new idea.

Moreover, this Second Age business appears on a note _on the back of the very same paper_ in which, in my opinion, Tolkien writes that the Istari (_including the "other two"_) all came at the same time -- agreeing with his already published history in Appendix B.

We could, at least, easily have another Problem of ROS scenario here: Tolkien scratches two notes, then recalling the history he'd already published, he flips this infamous slice of paper and again writes that all five Istari arrove in the Third Age -- this text was published in _Unfinished Tales_: after referring to the Five Wizards, JRRT wrote [next sentence] *"Now these Maiar were sent by the Valar at a crucial moment in the history of Middle-earth to enhance the resistance . . ."*

A crucial moment in history. The crucial "moment" in history being 2,841 years long?

Rather it's clear that in the "flip side note", Tolkien was thinking of two different times. Granted, one cannot know which side of the paper was written before the other, but for my part, I'll take the more legible side [the "flip side" was so difficult to make out that it didn't see publication until later in HME], which, again, agrees with what Tolkien had already published.

And even if Tolkien did not self correct based on Appendix B, I'll still take what I'll call the easy inference from Appendix B.

In short, if this_ "two Istari probably arrove when Glorfindel did [SA 1600] idea"_ were ice, I wouldn't skate on it!


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## Ent (Nov 10, 2022)

Elthir said:


> _arrove_


Dearest Elthir:
- I applaud your obvious attraction and attachment to this word, and even more your endearing hope that it catches on.
- It even bears a certain semblance of 'common sense' given other similar words, their construction and application.
- However I confess - similar to Tolkien's misapplication of that singular word "confusticate", this will be another I will not be able to join in the promulgation of. Sadly though, "confusticate" does have its proper place and application where (at present) "drove" does not.

As long as I maintain a primary role in editing works of others and writing my own for some targeted audiences' consumption I will need to remain within the rigid confines of the 'accepted and acceptable language' of the masses, reviewers, naysayers and critics.

(That said my suspicion about the current grasp of language as it exists and with regard to its accurate use and application by many is they would read over 'drove' without batting a leaf, not knowing it was irregular - even nonexistent - in dictionaries, etymologies or other such things. At least not that this Ent can currently locate among those in his library.)

But I DO thank you for bringing it forward for consideration - ever so much.

I trust the length of time I have spent pondering the word, the issues involved, and the world into which it would integrate have not been done too hastily for your immediate needs and preferences.

(On the other hand, perhaps this is THE time for application of a certain author's "QTP". "Question The Premise". Why NOT get behind a move to generate acceptance of a new, and a misused, word. Hum Hroom. More pondering.)


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## Olorgando (Nov 10, 2022)

I think I have the most sympathies with this post:









The Unwritten Book


What "Unwritten Book" by Tolkien would you most like to read? For me, it would be "The Chronicles of Arnor" - and would tell ALL ABOUT Arnor, Arthedain (and sister nations) and the Northern Dunedain in the time of the chieftains. Each king and chieftain, their families, their struggles, the...




www.thetolkienforum.com





Would we *really* be happy with the revisions the old JRRT might have made to the writings of the young JRRT? As I've posted before, I have my doubts ...


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 10, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> I think I have the most sympathies with this post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Depends. I HATED the "always round-earth" revision. The rest I mostly liked. Especially of the Blue Wizards (assuming the HoME version is later).


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## Elthir (Nov 10, 2022)

Well, the tale of _The Lord of the Rings _occurs on a round world, and Tolkien never once explained why everything isn't constantly slipping off the curvy sides!

Anyway, I'm grateful that in his later years, JRRT seemingly arrove at the decision to keep the mannish tales of a once flat world, along with the Western Elvish traditions of an always round world.



ZehnWaters said:


> The rest I mostly liked. Especially of the Blue Wizards (assuming the HoME version is later).



If you mean the Second Age Arrival version, it exists on the back of a page with a note that has all five wizards being sent at the same time [thus, the Third Age I'd assume]. So, publication [by Tolkien] aside here, it's difficult to know which idea is later than the other.

And the writing aside, both sides of this slice of paper are possibly the same age 

Also, if you prefer later texts concerning these two, so far anyway, there are no "blue" wizards after 1958 [letter 211, in which Tolkien doesn't know their colours, and doubts they had distinctive colours].


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 10, 2022)

Elthir said:


> Also, if you prefer later texts concerning these two, so far anyway, there are no "blue" wizards after 1958 [letter 211, in which Tolkien doesn't know their colours, and doubts they had distinctive colours].


Hm. Lame. Seems I prefer the middle-era Tolkien in almost every way. Maybe save, perhaps, Teleri Celeborn who takes Galadriel, separate from her kin, across from Valinor.


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