# Shelob is a descendant of Ungoliant?



## Aglarband (Sep 10, 2004)

Does anyone else think this is possible? It makes sense, I mean where else could a huge spider come from?


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## Gothmog (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Shelob is a decendant of Ungolant?*

Not only is it possible, it is stated as a fact in LoTR, The Two Towers in the chapter "Shelob's Lair"



> There agelong she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as once of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea, such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Lothian upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago. How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness. Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, *Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world*.


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## Nerloth (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Shelob is a decendant of Ungolant?*

Who was Shelobs father?


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## Gamil Zirak (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Shelob is a decendant of Ungolant?*



Nerloth said:


> Who was Shelobs father?



A love child of Melkor's perhaps.


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## MichaelMartinez (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Shelob is a decendant of Ungolant?*



Nerloth said:


> Who was Shelobs father?


Somewhere, although I'm not sure it is in the published _Silmarillion_ text, Tolkien wrote that Shelob bred with one or more of the giant spiders which inhabited Nan Dungortheb (I think that is the correct name -- the valley in the southern Echoriath through which the Beorians led by Emeldir fled in the First Age, and through which Beren later passed on his way to Doriath).

The origin of those giant spiders is not really stated, although it is easy to infer that they were either corrupted Maiar who assumed bestial form or were simply part of the ensemble of monsters Morgoth and Sauron bred in Middle-earth after the Valar fled to Aman.


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## Uminya (Nov 22, 2004)

Besides that, it doesn't really matter who Shelob's father was. Female spiders tend to kill their mates after the deed is done.


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## Astaldo (Nov 22, 2004)

Yeah like the Black Widows.


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## HLGStrider (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: Shelob is a decendant of Ungolant?*



MichaelMartinez said:


> Somewhere, although I'm not sure it is in the published _Silmarillion_ text, Tolkien wrote that Shelob bred with one or more of the giant spiders which inhabited Nan Dungortheb (I think that is the correct name -- the valley in the southern Echoriath through which the Beorians led by Emeldir fled in the First Age, and through which Beren later passed on his way to Doriath).
> 
> The origin of those giant spiders is not really stated, although it is easy to infer that they were either corrupted Maiar who assumed bestial form or were simply part of the ensemble of monsters Morgoth and Sauron bred in Middle-earth after the Valar fled to Aman.


Is it at all possible that the giant spiders were just that, giant spiders? No more, no less? I mean, does a creature have to be evil to be bred with evil? Especially if the evil is simply going to suck your guts out after mating?

Are spiders naturally evil? Or only big ones?

Personally, I'm going to go with all spiders being naturally evil. There is a REALLY ugly one living in our mail box. I just know it is going to jump on me someday! And I am too scared to go in after it!


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## Astaldo (Nov 23, 2004)

There is a good solution. Take a long wood put a piece of cotton with some alcohol in the edge light it up and you have a great weapon. But I wouldn't kill it because people say that spiders bring luck.


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## MichaelMartinez (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: Shelob is a decendant of Ungolant?*



HLGStrider said:


> Is it at all possible that the giant spiders were just that, giant spiders? No more, no less? I mean, does a creature have to be evil to be bred with evil? Especially if the evil is simply going to suck your guts out after mating?
> 
> Are spiders naturally evil? Or only big ones?


Well, all of Tolkien's giant spiders are treated with horror. I think Tolkien meant for the reader to understand that they were somehow perversions of natural life.

Realistically, although some spiders can grow to be a couple of feet in width, Tolkien-sized spiders are considered an impossibility. They apparently don't have circulatory systems. But then, naturally hobbit-sized humans were considered an impossibility until recently, too.


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