# Armies at the Seige of Minas Tirith/Battle of Pellenor Fields and beyond



## Adrian Atandil (Dec 16, 2005)

*Okay, first off, you must realize Tolkien only gave a few definite numbers for the Siege of Gondor/Battle of Pelennor Fields. But he did leave hints that we can figure out, which I hope to do here. I have here many quotes for our use and my arguments as to numbers at the battle.*

-200 Axe men of Lossarnach

'So few! Two hundreds, what are they? We hoped for ten times the number. That will be the new tidings of the black fleet. They are sparing only a tithe of their strength.' -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 30-31

From Webster’s II New College Dictionary:
tithe 3. a. A tenth part. b. A very small part.

-300 men of Ringlo Vale
-500 bowmen from Morthond
-100 fisher-folk from the Ethir
-300 soldiers from Pinnath Gelin
-700 men at arms of Dol Amroth plus a company of knights

And so the companies came and were hailed and cheered and passed trough the Gate, men of the Outlands marching to defend the City of Gondor in a dark hour; but always too few, always less than hope looked for or need asked. The men of Ringlo Vale behind the son of their lord, Dervorin striding on foot: three hundreds. From the uplands of Morthond, the great Blackroot Vale, tall Duinhir with his sons, Duilin and Derufin, and five hundredbowmen. From the Anfalas, the Langstrand far away, a long line of men of many sorts, hunters and herdsmen and men of little villages, scantily equipped save for the household of Golasgil their lord. From Lamedon, a few grim hillmen without a captain. Fisher-folk of the Ethir, some hundred or more spared from the ships. Hirluin the Fair of the Green Hills from Pinnath Gelin with three hundreds of gallant green-clad men. And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses; and behind them seven hundreds of men at arms, tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, signing as they came. -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 31

*So we have 2,300 reinforcements as of this point without knowing the number of soldiers Anfalas or Lamedon or the number of knights that Imrahi led, but we have this:*

And that was all, less than three thousands full told. No more would come. -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 31

*So that remaining soldiers must be less than 700 combined.*

'For this attack will draw off much of the help that we looked to have from Lebennin and Belfalas, where folk are hardy and numerous.' -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 25

*In fact, it seems to me than not only was Ithilien deserted, but all of Anorien north of Minas Tirith and the Rammas with the exception of Cair Andros and the beacons leading to the border of Rohan.*

“[A]nd Eomer five hundreds of the Rohirrim who were unhorsed but themselves warworthy, and he himself should lead five hundreds of his best Riders on horse; and another company of five hundred horse there should be,”

*But wait; here it says a company of five hundred horse. And all the numbers before that were multiples of 500 as well. So can we safely assume Tolkien means a company to be 500 soldiers? If so then we know the number of Imrahil’s company on horse. So we now have the following:*

-200 Axe men of Lossarnach
-300 men of Ringlo Vale
-500 bowmen from Morthond
-100 fisher-folk from the Ethir
-300 soldiers from Pinnath Gelin
-700 men at arms of Dol Amroth
-500 Swan knights of Dol Amroth

*We now have 2,600 in reinforcements pending the number of troops from Lamedon or Anfalas and knowing the final number is less than 3,000. I doubt that even 100 men came from Lamedon, as that was the lowest number Tolkien used, yet only ‘a few grim hillmen’ could come to Minas Tirith.*

*Moving on to the standing army of Minas Tirith itself we know the following:*

'Nay, nay,' Beregond laughed, 'I am no captain. Neither office nor rank nor lordship have I, being but a plain man of arms of the Third Company of the Citadel.' -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 27

*So there are at least 3 companies of the Citadel Guard itself plus at least one out company and we hypothesize from earlier quotes that a company is 500 men. Therefore:*

-2,000 Warriors of Minas Tirith

*Now it is very likely that garrison of Minas Tirith was greater than this as I speculate their was probably another out company and possibly another company of the Citadel Guard and/or several companies of your basic grunt soldiers of Gondor. The number of defenders at the beginning of the seige was probably somewhere between 5,000 - 6,000 soldiers.*

'Today we may make the Enemy pay ten times our loss at the passage and yet rue the exchange." -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 84


-6000 Rohirrim
'Ten thousand spears I might have sent riding over the plain to the dismay of your foes. It will be less now, I fear; for I will not leave my strongholds all unguarded. Yet six thousands at the least shall ride behind me." -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 65

-30 Dunedain 
'I have thirty with me,' said Halbarad. 'That is all of our kindred that could be gathered in haste; but the brethren Elladan and Elrohir have ridden with us, desiring to go to the war.' -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 36

'There at Pelargir lay the main fleet of Umbar, fifty great ships and smaller vessels beyond count.' -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 156

'For there were many captives set free, and many slaves released who had been folk of Gondor taken in raids; and soon also there was a great gathering of men out of Lebennin and the Ethir, and Angbor of Lamedon came up with all the horsemen that he could muster.' -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 158

'For during that evening and night many ships were made ready and manned; and in the morning the fleet set forth.' -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 158

‘If we must ride soon, then I cannot hope to lead even two thousands, and yet leave as many for the defense of the city.’ -ROTK Book 1 Pg. 162

‘New strength is on the way from the southern fiefs, now that the coasts have been rid. Four thousands I sent marching from Pelargir through Lossarnach two days ago; and Angbor the fearless rides before them. If we set out in two days more, they will draw nigh ere we depart. Moreover many were bidden to follow me up the River in any craft they could gather; and with this wind they will soon be at hand, indeed several ships have already come to he Harlond. I judge that we could lead out seven thousands of horse and foot, and yet leave the City in better defense than it was when the assault began.”

Aragorn should find some two thousands of those that he had gathered to him in the South; but Imrahil should find three and a half thousands; and Eomer five hundreds of the Rohirrim who were unhorsed but themselves warworthy, and he himself should lead five hundreds of his best Riders on horse; and another company of five hundred horse there should be, among which should ride the sons of Elrond with the Dunedain and the knights of Dol Amroth: all told six thousand foot and a thousand horse. But the main strength of the Rohirrim that remained horsed and able to fight, some three thousand under the command of Elfhelm, should waylay the West Road against the enemy that was in Anorien.

‘Surely,’ he cried, ‘this is the greatest jest in all the history of Gondor: that we should ride with seven thousands, scarce as many as the vanguard of its army in the days of its power, to assail the mountains and the impenetrable gate of the Black Land!’

*So after all is said and done we know that there were at least 4,000 warworthy Rohirrim, but that they had taken a grievous hurt in number of horses more than men. Aragorn brought at least 2,000 soldiers from Pelargir on his initial voyage and sent at least another 4,000 marching to the defense of the city. There are also at least 3,500 remaining defenders inside the city. So if we have 3,000 Rohirrim left in the city and 4,000 reinforcements from the fiefs arriving before Aragorn and company set out then we have a bare minimum of 7,000 inside the city, which does not include the number of original defenders left in the city, probably no less than 1,000 and no more than 2,500. That would definitely concur with Aragorn’s statement that the city would be left in better defense than before the siege began, ~8,000-9,500 vs. >6,000.*


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## Aglarband (Dec 17, 2005)

The Atlas of Middle-Earth estimates that the total estimated forces before the seige as 4,230, then getting 6,000 Rohirrim 30 Dundedain and 1,000 Southern Fiefs. At the Battle of the Morannon they estimate a total of 7,000, 6,000 infantry, 1,000 cavalry.


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## Adrian Atandil (Dec 20, 2005)

Aglarband said:


> The Atlas of Middle-Earth estimates that the total estimated forces before the seige as 4,230, then getting 6,000 Rohirrim 30 Dundedain and 1,000 Southern Fiefs. At the Battle of the Morannon they estimate a total of 7,000, 6,000 infantry, 1,000 cavalry.



Yes I know, I have the Atlas as well, but Fonstad know's no more than anyone else about the exact numbers. The numbers Aragorn tkes to the Morannon are clearly laid out, but others are not. A quote in my first post already disproves Fonstad's estimated 1,000 soldiers from the South that came with Aragorn, as he rallies at least 2,000 that he brought up to march on the Black Gate.


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## Withywindle (Feb 20, 2006)

Congratulations on a thorough catalogueing of the armies at the Battle of Pelennor fields! I find your analysis more convincing than the figures given in the Atlas. 

I would only question the definition of a company as 500. Company, as with all military divisions, varies greatly according to circumstances but the British Army in WWI of which Tolkien had direct experience used companies of up to 250 men (4 companies to a batallion which is up to 1000 men). Most probably Tolkien used the term without any precise figure in mind, but rather as a general term for "small division of army". In fact Tolkien only seems to use Company, Host and Army in his descriptions as opposed to Section, Platoon, Company, Batallion, Detatchment, Division and Corps used by modern armies, and so the numbers corresponding to these three categories is bound to vary.

I have often speculated as to the sizes of Tolkiens armies in the various Ages and so little detail is given - in fact I can only think of Gondolin´s forces at the 5th battle being 10,000 warriors; and Imrahil´s comment that the 7,000 that went to the Morannon was "scarce as many as the vanguard of her (Gondor´s) army in the days of her power", implying that the full army might have been some 10 times that. If anyone has any further figures or hints that Tolkien gives on the sizes of armies I would be interested to hear it.


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## Annaheru (Feb 20, 2006)

hmm, using your quotes we know that the Rohirrim took 33% casualties (6000 come, 4000 available after), and Aragorn apparently took around 50% (2000 came, 1000 available after). so say we take the 3500 Imrahil has available and project back at a very modest^ 40% casualty rate 3500*.4=1400+ 3500= 4900 plus the knights of Dol Amroth.

^the city's casualties were almost certainly much higher, I would guess ~85% given the slaughter at the Ramas and during the retreat over the Pelannor. That would change the defense to around 6500 men. 

If we add another 1000 survivors left in the city the total defense reaches ~8000, a fair estimate since Rohan could field an army of 10000 after a bloody campaign. These figures would still allow the statement about leaving the city in better defense to be true.

and 

Yeah those Atlas numbers are baseless: the army of the West left troops at the Crossroads, and sent others to recover Cair Andros, so they had _less than _6000 at the Morannon. 
See RotK: " And so . . . it was with less than six thousands that the Captains of the West came at last to challenge the Black Gate and the might of Mordor."

Since the horsemen were used to break the "ambush" set by Sauron, we'll assume that they all continue, so ~980 horse (taking into account losses in that skirmish). 
They seem to have left most of their archers at the Crossroads, so we'll guess that ~300 reached the gates.
So I would estimate ~4500, 4600 men at arms

Which gives us ~5800 men. 


As to other armies? As was mentioned, the Professor gave us very few concrete numbers, but I believe we could do a (accurate) mock up of Helm's Deep.


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## Annaheru (Feb 20, 2006)

So here's Helm's Deep, relatively simple, all things considered:

Theoden leaves Edoras with 1000+ (that kind of indication usually means somewhere between 1001 and 1099): 2T End of "King of the Golden Hall"

Gamling informs the King that he has around a thousand teenagers and senior citizens ready and willing: 2T "Helm's Deep (my copy pg 172)"

and Gandalf and Arkenbrand arriving after all real fighting bring another 1000: 2T End of "Helm's Deep"

So roughly 3000 men participated in that one (a far cry from the 300 we saw the movie, but I digress).

If we find more, let's put em up.


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## Adrian Atandil (Mar 10, 2006)

I'm pretty certain that the numbers for the Battle of Helm's Deep were pretty well covered in the novel itself. No need really to dig for anything there. 



> hmm, using your quotes we know that the Rohirrim took 33% casualties (6000 come, 4000 available after), and Aragorn apparently took around 50% (2000 came, 1000 available after). so say we take the 3500 Imrahil has available and project back at a very modest^ 40% casualty rate 3500*.4=1400+ 3500= 4900 plus the knights of Dol Amroth.
> 
> ^the city's casualties were almost certainly much higher, I would guess ~85% given the slaughter at the Ramas and during the retreat over the Pelannor. That would change the defense to around 6500 men.



I actually don't believe the defenders of Minas Tirith would have taken too many casualities after the actual seige began. Now, prior to Mordor digging in it would have been a slaughter in Osgiliath and during Faramir's retreat turned rout, but afterwards it was a pretty basic wait-'em-out seige until the second night when Grond was wheeled up. Everyone was out of bowshot until the seige towers and the ram rolled up and even after the Gate was broken no attackers dared to enter the City in fear of Gandalf, much the same as the defenders high tailed it away from the Witch King. In fact it seems no enemy ever laid foot in the City as Imrahil soon led all the mounted men out to reenforce Eomer. This definately is a tough nut to crack, but I do like debating it.


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## Halasían (Mar 10, 2021)

Withywindle said:


> Congratulations on a thorough catalogueing of the armies at the Battle of Pelennor fields! I find your analysis more convincing than the figures given in the Atlas.
> 
> I would only question the definition of a company as 500. Company, as with all military divisions, varies greatly according to circumstances but the British Army in WWI of which Tolkien had direct experience used companies of up to 250 men (4 companies to a batallion which is up to 1000 men). Most probably Tolkien used the term without any precise figure in mind, but rather as a general term for "small division of army". In fact Tolkien only seems to use Company, Host and Army in his descriptions as opposed to Section, Platoon, Company, Batallion, Detatchment, Division and Corps used by modern armies, and so the numbers corresponding to these three categories is bound to vary.
> 
> I have often speculated as to the sizes of Tolkiens armies in the various Ages and so little detail is given - in fact I can only think of Gondolin´s forces at the 5th battle being 10,000 warriors; and Imrahil´s comment that the 7,000 that went to the Morannon was "scarce as many as the vanguard of her (Gondor´s) army in the days of her power", implying that the full army might have been some 10 times that. If anyone has any further figures or hints that Tolkien gives on the sizes of armies I would be interested to hear it.


In the case of the Dunedain, a 'Company' was thirty-three 
(thirty rangers that answered the call, Halbarad himself, and the two sons of Elrond made up the Grey Company)

Fascinating read this thread! I missed it the first time around.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Apr 1, 2021)

Withywindle said:


> Congratulations on a thorough catalogueing of the armies at the Battle of Pelennor fields! I find your analysis more convincing than the figures given in the Atlas.
> 
> I would only question the definition of a company as 500. Company, as with all military divisions, varies greatly according to circumstances but the British Army in WWI of which Tolkien had direct experience used companies of up to 250 men (4 companies to a batallion which is up to 1000 men). Most probably Tolkien used the term without any precise figure in mind, but rather as a general term for "small division of army". In fact Tolkien only seems to use Company, Host and Army in his descriptions as opposed to Section, Platoon, Company, Batallion, Detatchment, Division and Corps used by modern armies, and so the numbers corresponding to these three categories is bound to vary.
> 
> I have often speculated as to the sizes of Tolkiens armies in the various Ages and so little detail is given - in fact I can only think of Gondolin´s forces at the 5th battle being 10,000 warriors; and Imrahil´s comment that the 7,000 that went to the Morannon was "scarce as many as the vanguard of her (Gondor´s) army in the days of her power", implying that the full army might have been some 10 times that. If anyone has any further figures or hints that Tolkien gives on the sizes of armies I would be interested to hear it.


"Units" were formed according to their functions instead of inflexible numbers, such as the strength would be different between a Inf and Cav company. In addition, units might also vary due to different factions, such as US and Japan's corps's and armies's definition were reversed.
Rangers, as horribly highly well-sophisticated units, to be used in strength smaller several times while getting the same function, were reasonably to have a "30 personnel" company. 
Even if in factual modern military operation, military units aren't necessary to have show up in so many options. Such as the USMC usually worked as regiments, apart from extreme cases such as Korean War's Chosin due to extreme terrains. Units in almost similar levels, such as divisions and corps, also don't need to get formed due to their similar functions.
Most of all, characters were either high command level not lower than Lt Gn(such as Faramir), or either grassroot sergeants-like level(Pippin). Their view didn't need to take too much focus on each level in details usually due to their extreme ranks, apart from some special cases such as Faramir's Rangers or Eomer disbanded from his command due to his exile. As the context would follow according to the characters's view of angle, "units" would also show up according to the characters. As an result, that's why units's types in LOTR were so rare.


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## Halasían (Apr 5, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Eomer disbanded from his command due to his exile.


Éomer was never 'exiled'. That is pure PJ fanfiction.
He was arrested and jailed by Grima for disobeying his orders to stay in Edoras and leading his Éored (120 men) on the pursuit of the Orcs that had Merry and Pippen. Also he was charged with letting Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas go with some horses from the fallen Rohirrim.

Bringing this back to Pelennor, there were fifty Éored in Theoden's muster.


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## Halasían (Nov 23, 2021)

I found this in-depth six-part essay on the Battle for Minas Tirith really interesting!


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