# Melian and the Death of Thingol.........



## redline2200 (Feb 16, 2003)

> _The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Doriath_
> .....and she [Melian] vanished out of Middle-earth, and passed to the land of the Valar beyond the western sea, to muse upon her sorrows in the gardens of Lorien, whence she came, and this tale speaks of her no more.



Ok first of all, when elves die they become reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos, to await the last battle (obviously). I can't remember where it says this, but it says somewhere that Melian's grief was the worst grief an Ainur has experienced. If she returned to Valinor after the death of Thingol, then why didn't she just go to the halls of Mandos and live with him there?


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## Celebthôl (Feb 16, 2003)

i think its a place only Elves, men/hobbits (for a short time) and Mandos, Mndos' wife (i forget her name), and Manwe can go to.


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## Niniel (Feb 16, 2003)

It doesn't say she died. Actually, she is a Maia, so she CAN'T die at all. So she just went back to Valinor, and lived there in the gardens of Lórien. Lórien (also named Irmo) is a Vala who tends these gardens. It says


> Irmo the younger is the master of visions and dreams. In Lórien are his gardens in the land of the Valar, and they are the fairest of all places of the world, filled with many spirits. Este the gentle, healer of hurts and of weariness, is his spouse. Grey is her raiment; and rest is her gift. From the fountains of Irmo and Este all those who dwell in Valinor draw refreshment.


So, since Melian's grief was very heavy, Lórien would be the only place where she could find peace of mind.


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## Celebthôl (Feb 16, 2003)

i think hes trying to point out if she could actually go to the halls of Mandos...


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## Niniel (Feb 16, 2003)

Oh, of course. Sorry, it's late over here...  Well, in that case I agree with you that only the dead can go there, so Melian wouldn't be able to come to the halls of Mandos. It's a bit strange, it's never metioned whether access to Mandos' halls was open to Valar and Maiar; you would say it's easy for them to walk in and out but apparently it isn't.


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## Confusticated (Feb 17, 2003)

> I can't remember where it says this, but it says somewhere that Melian's grief was the worst grief an Ainur has experienced. If she returned to Valinor after the death of Thingol, then why didn't she just go to the halls of Mandos and live with him there?



I get the idea that the majority of Melian's greif (and this is not to belittle the minority, it just shows how extremely great the majority was) was due to her loss of Luthien . It was _that_ greif of Melian that is said to be the greatest greif of loss there ever was.

Of course, I'm sure she missed Thingol and grieved for the general pains that Morgoth was causing in Middle-earth too.


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## Gil-Galad (Feb 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nóm _
> *I get the idea that the majority of Melian's greif (and this is not to belittle the minority, it just shows how extremely great the majority was) was due to her loss of Luthien . It was that greif of Melian that is said to be the greatest greif of loss there ever was.
> 
> Of course, I'm sure she missed Thingol and grieved for the general pains that Morgoth was causing in Middle-earth too. *


 I think you are right.Melian's greatest grief is due to her loss of Lithien.Luthien choses a mortal life and after her death nobody knows where her spirit will go.So Melian would never meet he again.At the same time Thingol is a elf.He goes to The Halls of Mandos and some day,in the end of days they will meet again.
So if Luthien's loss is bigger than Thingol's one,it's obvious that the grief caused by the loss of Luthien will bigger than that of the loss of Thingol.It's quite simple.


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## Goldberry (Feb 20, 2003)

But Melian has lost her daughter for all time, and her husband for a very long time. That's a lot for one person to endure.


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## redline2200 (Feb 23, 2003)

You are right Nóm, I forgot about that. I just remembering hearing Melian had the greatest grief, and I assumed it was over Thingol.


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## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

Is it for sure that she cannot go to the Halls of Mandos? Any quotes or other evidence


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