# Praise them with great praise!



## Beorn (Aug 5, 2002)

> 'Long live the Halflings! Praise them with great praise!
> Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
> Praise them with great praise, Frodo and Samwise!
> Daur a Berhael, Conin en Annun! Eglerio!
> ...



Did anyone else find the phrase 'Praise them with greate praise!' ever-so-slightly redundant? Why do you think Tolkien left in such a bizarre phrase, rather than replace it with something else?


P.S. Did it pays Tolkien to put in the phrase 'Praise them with great praise'


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## Confusticated (Aug 5, 2002)

Maybe because Tolkien knows that that is something that people would very well say. People say redundant things all the time. They put these on display in public too. In a way it was realistic to have that in the book...hehehe
I still didnt care for it though. I'm glad someone brought it up and mentioned it!


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## Grond (Aug 5, 2002)

I find it interesting that you find fault with the descriptive Grammar good Beorn. (You being such a stickler on Grammar and all. ) I find it fine. Praise is first used as a verb and then as a noun. "Praise them with great praise!" sounds so much stronger than simply saying, "Praise them greatly!". But that's just me.


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## Confusticated (Aug 5, 2002)

I can't speak for Beorn but for me it just sounds bad. True, it isn't actually redundant in meaning but to me it is redundant sounding.


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## Darth Saruman (Aug 5, 2002)

You're right. They should edit it out of the next LOTR book release.


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## Ariana Undomiel (Aug 5, 2002)

I don't think it strange. Nor do I think that it should be deleted out of the book. How ridiculous to edit something out of a book simply because it doesn't seem to fit quite correctly. Tolkien was an excellent writer with beautiful style and words throughout all of his books. This particular poem is showing one style that was used by the men of Gondor to highly honor Frodo and Sam. It may seem a bit odd to us, but the book was written a great number of years ago in England.

~Ariana


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## Beorn (Aug 5, 2002)

I'm not saying it should be deleted...I'm just saying that it comes across strange....and, yes, I know 'Praise them with great praise' is gramattically ok.


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## Confusticated (Aug 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Darth Saruman _
> *You're right. They should edit it out of the next LOTR book release. *



I naturally assume that this was a joke. More specificly, sarcasm aimed at me. I think it's a little funny myself. Others did not take it as so. Darth, was this a joke???????


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## Eol (Aug 6, 2002)

Hmmm, maybe you're right. How about:

Cheer them with loud cheers!


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## ltas (Aug 6, 2002)

> Did anyone else find the phrase 'Praise them with great praise!' ever-so-slightly redundant? Why do you think Tolkien left in such a bizarre phrase, rather than replace it with something else?



'Praise them with great praise!' does sound very awkward.

Maybe it was a traditional phrase used in certain cituations and Aragorn was following the etiquette?

 Does anyone know if perhaps a similar kind of phrase has been in use in older English language?


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## HLGStrider (Aug 6, 2002)

I think it has a Bibical ring to it. It reminds me almost of a Psalm, and I like it. 

Yes, I like it. Redundancy is good in poetry... To some extent. It has a very King James version type feel, and I really like it.













Did I mention that I liked it.


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## Lantarion (Aug 6, 2002)

I agree, the phrase sounds very rigid and awkward. It doesn't really sound very humane, if you know what I mean..
Another incredibly silly phrase (IMHO) is Elrond's: "That is the doom that we must deem."


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## pohuist (Aug 6, 2002)

For me its sounded fine. I actually believe medievil ministrels used to make verses like this. I definitely seen/heard/read something like this in other books/movies.


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## Rangerdave (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ltas _
> *
> 
> 'Praise them with great praise!' does sound very awkward.
> ...



Ssshhhh! don't tell anyone this.
But the line "praise him with great praise" is directly from Beowulf.

Mums the word.

RD


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## ltas (Aug 6, 2002)

*/whispering/*

thanks, Rangerdave


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## YayGollum (Aug 6, 2002)

I just hated it because they never mentioned Gollum.


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## Theoden (Aug 6, 2002)

I really liked that line

-me


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## YayGollum (Aug 7, 2002)

Why? Because you're evil?


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## Grond (Aug 7, 2002)

Yay... what is your problem??


> _from The Return of the King, The Field of Cormallen,_
> 'Long live the Halflings! Praise them with great praise! Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath! Praise them with great praise, Frodo and Samwise *and Gollum!* Daur a Berhael, Conin en Annyn! Eglerio! Praise them! Eglerio! A laita te, laita te! Andave laituvalmet! Praise them! Cormacolindor, a laita tbrienna! Praise them! The Ring-bearers, praise them with great praise!'



They are praising you too. You are a halfling, you were a Ringbearer. Read the quote again.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 7, 2002)

Now how did that get in there?


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## Grond (Aug 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *Now how did that get in there? *


The Pen is mightier than the sword.


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## Rangerdave (Aug 7, 2002)

And easier to disguise in the dark recesses of a coat pocket.


RD


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## HLGStrider (Aug 7, 2002)

Ever seen the Last Crusade, Indiana Jones?

Love that scene... This is war, Marcus...


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## Rangerdave (Aug 7, 2002)

Are you kidding?

My minor was in Archaeology, The Indy trilogy was required viewing.
despite the fact that he was more of a grave robber than an archaeologist. 

RD


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## Ol' Toby (Jul 25, 2018)

Beorn said:


> Did anyone else find the phrase 'Praise them with greate praise!' ever-so-slightly redundant? Why do you think Tolkien left in such a bizarre phrase, rather than replace it with something else?
> 
> 
> P.S. Did it pays Tolkien to put in the phrase 'Praise them with great praise'



I made an account just to reply to this 16 year old thread haha. The pedantry and 'big-brainedness' of the OP was just too much... I had to say something.

First of all, 'praise them with great praise' is not redundant, it is an absolutely beautiful expression of the inexpressible. This part of the book is my all time favorite part (the Scouring of the Shire being a very close second) and every time I finally reach this moment, and the "Praise them with great praise!" line, I can't help but shed a couple of tears. It is the absolute climax of the book, and it portrays with such vivid beauty the highest honors being bestowed upon Frodo and Samwise.

They are there, before all of the very best, most noble and good, the strongest and most worthy audience in all of middle earth-- all of high elf lords, the Lord Aragorn, Gandalf, etc. everyone good and noble in the world is there, and they wish to express to Frodo and Sam the highest possible praise and glory... so high, so great, so magnificent is their celebration of them, that words completely fall short.

Despite that, some verbal praise must be given... but how can you express such praise so overflowing with highest possible honor and glory with mere words? "Praise them with great praise" is perfect because it shows that they are at a loss for words. It's the type of love and honor that only tears and song could come close to expressing... and "praise them with great praise" captures that perfectly. Even the Elves, even these men of high renown, are unable to formulate a sentence that truly captures it... and yet, they are able to allude to this inexpressible love with the words, "praise them with great praise."

I feel sorry for you who read this part and had the thought pop into your head, "that's redundant!" because when I read this part (if I've actually been reading the books in order up to that point) I can only cry and agree, praise the halflings with great praise. No words are really worthy of their highness.

Furthermore... consider the other bits about it:
"Long live the halflings / praise them with great praise!"
"Praise them with great praise / Frodo and Samwise!"

Each half-line has 5 syllables. This is wonderful alliterative verse. It could not have been written any better.

Poor soul who made this thread, I hope you read this post.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 25, 2018)

Excellent first, post, and welcome to the forum! I hope you will make many more.

Now, find yourself a suitable icon -- I want to see what an ApollonianGerm looks like! 

Edit: I see there's someone of that name active on various social media platforms. Are you he? If so, you're certainly busy!


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## Ol' Toby (Jul 25, 2018)

Thanks, Squint-eyed Southerner!

Yes, I have a youtube channel and a wordpress under the same name. But perhaps I should've registered this account under a different name... because I know I have some very controversial political opinions that I express on my youtube channel, and I don't necessarily want that to follow me into discussions about LOTR or Tolkien here, because I don't think it is entirely relevant and it could easily bias people against me.

But yes, I look forward to future talk on Tolkien! Thanks for the welcome.


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## Ithilethiel (Aug 7, 2018)

Agree with SES, welcome and great first post. Couldn't agree more with your post.

Praise Ol' Toby with great praise!


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## Barliman (Aug 7, 2018)

Ol' Toby said:


> I made an account just to reply to this 16 year old thread haha.
> Snip


Praise him with great praise! 

I liked it too.

As for the OP, yes it's very formal, and formal statements often sound somewhat awkward. But it fits with the story as there are a number of "awkward" points where characters are being formal.
Remember this?
_"Mourn not overmuch! Mighty was the fallen,
meet was his ending. When his mound is raised,
women then shall weep. War now calls us!"_​The fifth issue of Tolkien Studies also mentions that the "Praise them with great praise...." as being modeled on Psalms. I certainly have no idea if it was, but obviously Tolkien would have been well versed in the Psalms. (sorry, couldn't resist )


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