# Why "Precious" coincidence or what?



## Celebthôl (Aug 28, 2003)

Why does the holder of the ring always call it "precious"?

When you hear it you imediately think of Gollum...he is clearly not the smartest guy when it comes to words.
Bilbo calls it precious aswell, maybe because he heard it off Gollum, then Frodo does (i believe?)

I guess they could have all picked it up from Gollum, and its all fine...but then we go back about a very long time to Isildur and he calls it precious aswell, way before Gollum ever did, and Gollum would never have heard Isildur call is "precious".

So where does THIS specific word come from?

Why not something else? Why always the same word?


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## Niniel (Aug 28, 2003)

It's used to show that the Ring gets a hold of the Ringbearer, so that he doesn't really control what he's saying. But why this word I don't know.


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## Celebthôl (Aug 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Niniel _
> *It's used to show that the Ring gets a hold of the Ringbearer, so that he doesn't really control what he's saying. But why this word I don't know. *



But why does it never change? Its always the same word...


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## YayGollum (Aug 28, 2003)

Hmph. Gollum was plenty smart. oh well.  Did the achingly boring Isildur person call the thing his precious? Did he use the word the same way Gollum did? I don't remember that, but oh well. Maybe so. Sounds like a crazy coincidence to me. Doesn't matter too much.


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## Rangerdave (Aug 28, 2003)

It makes perfect sense if you can consider the posibility that the Ring and Sauron are not two seperate things.

The Ring can be seen as not only a thing but an intregal part of Sauron. If so, the Ring would refer to itself as "precious" and the Ringbearer psychically pick up on this.


It's just a theory

RD


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## BlackCaptain (Aug 28, 2003)

I think it's because Tolkien originaly just had him call it precious, then made refferences to it later on in the books, foreshadowing the fact that this person calling it 'precious' could potentialy become Gollum if 'untreated' ... or something like that


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## Gandalf White (Aug 28, 2003)

But of course it had to be more than coincidence.

Think about it, how could you get a 3 out of 3, otherwise? It had to be more than chance....


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## Flammifer (Aug 29, 2003)

> But of course it had to be more than coincidence.
> 
> Think about it, how could you get a 3 out of 3, otherwise? It had to be more than chance....



Not necessarily. As BC said, Tolkien just used this word in the Hobbit first coz it was cool and a good descriptive word (if you get me), and LOTR wasn't even conceived at the time of the Hobbit's writing. My theory is that Tolkien seized the oppurtunity to use this word again, therein displaying the obsession the Ringbearer exhibited when they possessed the Ring for too long. 

Can you think of a better word? I think it's perfect!

It just wouldn't seem right for Gollum to be saying:

"My ring to which I am moderately attached..."


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## Valdarmyr (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Flammifer _
> *As BC said, Tolkien just used this word in the Hobbit first coz it was cool and a good descriptive word (if you get me), and LOTR wasn't even conceived at the time of the Hobbit's writing. My theory is that Tolkien seized the oppurtunity to use this word again, therein displaying the obsession the Ringbearer exhibited when they possessed the Ring for too long.
> 
> Can you think of a better word? I think it's perfect!
> ...


I agree with Flammifer, and with Niniel


> _Originally posted by Niniel_*
> It's used to show that the Ring gets a hold of the Ringbearer, so that he doesn't really control what he's saying.*


I spent some time searching the internet, and I couldn't find any direct reference as to why the Ring is repeatedly called "precious;" the closest I got was one page that says, "The more it's worn, the more precious it becomes," which is basically what's been said here. 

To paraphrase, perhaps Tolkien had the characters who wore it and came under its control (to whatever degree) call it exactly the same thing as a creative literary device to show that they felt _exactly the same hypnotic influence_ and exactly the same selfish love for it and intense attraction to its power.


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## FoolOfATook (Aug 29, 2003)

Or maybe it was a quick way for the author to show that the Ring had taken hold of Bilbo and Isildur the same way that it had Gollum...Pretty much what BC said, in other words.

Just a crazy theory.


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## Lantarion (Aug 29, 2003)

A theory that I have been kicking around is that when the Ring is used by someone who still has some goodness in them (i.e. not Sauron), that 'barrier' blocking the person's true nature is slowly gnawed away by what substantial power Sauron left in it, which is why it took so long for Frodo to crack: he was just about as innocent and virtuous as they come. 
This is, of course, a theory which assumes that the basic 'human' nature of most races is evil, or cruel. It is certainly true with humans, in my opinion, and probably also with Dwarves; and as Hobbits are descendants of Men it would reason to think that they, too, are basically evil but have developed or have in them an instinctive block (goodness) which allows virtuous and moral activity by cutting off the instinctual evil. But because Hobbits are only very distant relatives of Men, one might also reason to think that the strain of basic evil is not as potent. 

Now, about Elves in relation to this theory: it would obviously reason to think that Elves, the 'purest' and eldest race, would have no instinctual evil in them, and that any evil characteristics are the offspring of outward manipulation or affecting factors: Elves must 'learn' evil to know it. And Morgoth, our old pal, happily lets evil subtly into the mind of Fëanor. 
Now, Galadriel's little tantrum at her Mirror in TT at latest leads me to believe that this strain, introduced my Morgoth, survived over the millenia, and that even Elves haave _some_ evil in them; but through their holiness, and probably by the affects of the Two Trees on whoever saw them, many Elves seem to be able to block evil completely and purge it from their system. Other proofs of this small, remaining strain of evil are the many atrocities underwent by the sons of Fëanor, and other characters (e.g. Eöl), in the Silmarillion. As Galadriel was a (fairly distant) relative of Fëanor, it makes sense for the strain to be present in at least her; but because she also had a fabulously strong good side, her 'evil' was manifested only in brief spasms of anger, which were apparently extremely rare.

SO! My point is this: this (hypothetical) inherent evil in just about all people is always there, but just about all races have been able to supress their dark side to a great extent. Now if power can corrupt the seemingly incorruptible hearts of the Númenóreans, the thought of power through the Ring must have a threefold effect on its Bearer. Most Hobbits (that is, excluding individuals like Sandyman and Lotho) seem top have an excellent 'immunity' towards their inherent evil.

So to call the Ring "precious", as was said, is simply stating its value to that darker side of the Bearer.


Whew! Now bear in mind that this is just a theory, and it is affected by the fact that I'm re-reading the Lord of the Flies, which is all about the inherent evil of human nature.. But what do you think?


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## Aglarthalion (Aug 29, 2003)

As others have said, I believe that the Ring is referred to as "Precious" by the various Ringbearers, as evidence of the control that the Ring holds over it's bearer's will or mind. I don't necessarily think that "Precious" is a term used to _always_ signify the presence of an otherwise dormant _evil_ trait in a Ringbearer (although it does signify this in Gollum, for instance), but it is just a method of showing the ability of the Ring when it "attaches" itself to the mind of it's bearer. 

And besides all of that, "Precious" is a better word to use than to keep calling it "The One Ring". Imagine Gollum saying _"My One Ring... My One Ringgggg..._ - It just doesn't sound as good as _"My Precious... My Preciousss"_.


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## YayGollum (Aug 29, 2003)

Noone answered my question, but oh well. I am here to defend the Dwarves. You know. Those achingly cool and underappreciated dudes who were made to resist evil. Why do so many people like to think that Dwarves are especially evil? Insanity.


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## Aulë (Aug 29, 2003)

> _FotR: The Council of Elrond_
> `But in that time also he made this scroll,' said Gandalf; `and that is not remembered in Gondor, it would seem. For this scroll concerns the Ring, and thus wrote Isildur therein:
> 
> 
> ...



So yes, YayG, Isildur _did_ say that it was precious. But not in the same way as Gollum.
But maybe he did _say_ it like Gollum did, but wrote it down differently. We shall never know.


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## Ithrynluin (Aug 29, 2003)

Perhaps Eru liked the word 'precious' so much that he enforced it on every bearer after Isildur.


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## FoolOfATook (Aug 29, 2003)

You are all completely overthinking this. Having characters call the Ring "precious" was a useful motif for Tolkien. That's it. There doesn't have to be an internal explanation for everything the author does.


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## Confusticated (Aug 30, 2003)

For people who view the books at a gateway into Middle-earth, there can be found some explaination within the story for most anything, even if far-fetched theory.

It is the ability of many readers to find internal explainations which makes Middle-earth so real to many of us. It is also the coming up with and sharing of ideas about possable explainations that is a big part of the enjoyment of these books for some readers. It is a thing a Tolkien seems to have done very often and perhaps he did it for the same reasons we do... for enjoyment of Middle-earth?



> You are all completely overthinking this.


I can not understand the thought and point of view behind that statement.

PS: In addition to the internal explaination already offered, Didn't both Bilbo and Frodo know that Gollum had called the Ring Precious? Word usage rubs off on people... especially a (whatever those there descriptive words are called ) that seems to be perfectly fitting.


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## Flammifer (Aug 30, 2003)

> especially a (whatever those there descriptive words are called  ) that seems to be perfectly fitting.



Adjective? 



> For people who view the books at a gateway into Middle-earth, there can be found some explaination within the story for most anything, even if far-fetched theory



Anyway, I agree with this, because Tolkien's world is so vast, many parallels and coincedences can be drawn between subtle/obscure things, such as this. I stand by my previous statement, but I believe Lantarion's theory (albeit long-winded  ) has merit.


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## FoolOfATook (Aug 30, 2003)

I think it might be important to remember Freud's (probably apocryphal) statement that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. If not that, maybe we simply need to sharpen Occam's ever-useful razor. 

In _The Hobbit_, Tolkien chose the word "precious" for Gollum to use to refer to both himself and the Ring. It was a word with a clear meaning, and it also has two "s" sounds, perfect for Smeagol's speech paterns.

Then, Tolkien begins writing _The Lord of the Rings_, and he needs to demonstrate that Bilbo has begun to succumb to the Ring. Having Bilbo refer to the Ring as "precious" quickly and effectively links Bilbo to Gollum, and even serves as another bridge between the two works. 

Now, Tolkien has established the use of the word "precious" as a short of shorthand, a code word if you will, that the reader will immediately connect with falling under the Ring's influence, thus allowing him to dramatically demonstrate the Ring's power over Isildur in a single word.

While we like to think of Tolkien as the grand architect of Middle-earth, it is of the utmost importance that we never forget that first and foremost he was a writer- and a damned good one at that. He understood these kinds of techniques that good writers use- techniques like the one I've just layed out. To my way of thinking, to assume that their has to be something behind this, rather than merely accepting it as a mark of what made Tolkien an effective writer, is almost an insult to Tolkien.


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## Lantarion (Aug 30, 2003)

You're absolutely right Foat, especially as Tolkien himself expressed his disinclination to using metaphors and symbolism etc. However, I don't think it hurts to kick around theories and hypotheses; I like to think that Tolkien would consider it a far cry from an 'insult' for people to delve deep enough into his works to actually find a deeper meaning there, whether it is there by his design or not. I for one completely acknowledge the fact that "a cigar is a cigar" () in Tolkien's works, but I still enjoy speculating and linking things in the books to possibly relevant aspects in real life; or even to other books, to compare and contrast.


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## Starbrow (Aug 30, 2003)

I have a question for Lantarion. In an earlier reply, you said Hobbits were descended from Men. Where did you find that out? I've always wondered where the race of Hobbits came from and when they were created or evolved.


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## Lantarion (Sep 2, 2003)

I'm sorry, I can't remember! If it isn't in the Appendices it must in one of the HoME books at least.. Someone more learned than I will surely know. 
Welcome to the forum, Starbrow!


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Starbrow _
> *I have a question for Lantarion. In an earlier reply, you said Hobbits were descended from Men. Where did you find that out? I've always wondered where the race of Hobbits came from and when they were created or evolved. *



Where did Hobbits come from? 

Try this thread, Starbrow.


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## Wonko The Sane (Sep 7, 2003)

Hugely interesting topic.

I think it probably started with Tolkien calling the ring Precious because it was an obsessive thing for Gollum to do, to show how much the ring had taken hold on him.

When he later wanted to show that the ring was doing the same to Bilbo, he again used the word Precious to reinforce to the readers the way the ring dominates one's thoughts.


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## Starbrow (Sep 7, 2003)

ithrynluin, thanks for telling me about the thread. It was just what I was looking for.


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