# Book or Movie



## 1stvermont (Nov 15, 2020)

I remember something like this at the great havens but is this from the movies only?



Pippin- I didn't think it would end this way. 
Gandalf- End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. Pippin- What? Gandalf? See what? 
Gandalf- White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise. 
Pippin: Well, that isn't so bad. 
Gandalf- No. No, it isn't.”


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## Licky Linguist (Nov 15, 2020)

No, I remember it from the books. Or at least, I think I do ☺️
That's a really good part...


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## Olorgando (Nov 15, 2020)

In the Book, it is in Book One, chapter VIII "Fog on the Barrow Downs" in "Fellowship, the very first paragraph of the chapter, describing Frodo's dream in the house of Tom Bombadil during the second night there. It is repeated in the last chapter in RoTK, fourth paragraph from last, describing how Frodo, traveling in the Elven ship, now actually sees what he had dreamed in TB's house.

The scene with Gandalf using those words speaking to Pippin at Minas Tirith is pure PJ invention.


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## Elthir (Nov 15, 2020)

And Tolkien's description is not about death.

🐾


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## 1stvermont (Nov 15, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> In the Book, it is in Book One, chapter VIII "Fog on the Barrow Downs" in "Fellowship, the very first paragraph of the chapter describing Frodo's dream in the house of Tom Bombadil during the second night there. It is repeated in the last chapter in RoTK, fourth paragraph from last, describing how Frodo, traveling in the Elven ship, now actually sees what he had dreamed in TB's house.
> 
> The scene with Gandalf using those words speaking to Pippin at Minas Tirith is pure PJ invention.




wow, your good. Thanks.


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## Aramarien (Nov 21, 2020)

The first part of the quote is found in the chapter, "Fog on the Barrow Downs" FOTR and the line again appears in the last chapter of FOTR, The Grey Havens. The lines are slightly different in the chapters:
Fog on the Barrow Downs FOTR:
"The night they heard no noises. But either in his dreams or out of them, he could not tell which, Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like* a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise*."

The Grey Havens, ROTK:
"....... Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, *the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise."*

The lines are very similar, yet different, which one would expect since the former is the dream and the latter is the reality to Frodo.

As with a lot of great dialogue and lines, PJ decided for some reason or another to give them to a different character with changes. Lines spoken by Boromir given to Legolas for example. 
To tell the truth, I was happy that these lines were put in the movie. In the book, Frodo never tells anyone about this dream, so I didn't have much of a problem with the lines being given to Gandalf, who has seen the Undying Lands.


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## Elthir (Nov 22, 2020)

My problem isn't with these lines being given to someone else, it's with the invented context -- again, Gandalf describing _the afterlife_ -- which in my opinion steps heavily on Tolkien's feet here.

🐾


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## Aramarien (Nov 22, 2020)

Elthir said:


> My problem isn't with these lines being given to someone else, it's with the invented context -- again, Gandalf describing _the afterlife_ -- which in my opinion steps heavily on Tolkien's feet here.
> 
> 🐾


I see your point Elthir! You are right about how in Tolkien had said that death was a "gift" to men/mortals and that the elves did not fully understand what that was.
I often had a problem reconciling the movies with the books. I have read the books for decades before the movies came out. I collected Tolkien calendars for decades too, with the great artists Howe and Lee who had taken such care with reading the text carefully before illustrating their artwork. One of the things that PJ did right was to hire Howe and Lee as artistic designers. The movies LOOKED right because he used those artists!! I have the calendar that has the foyer/lobby of Bag End that was taken from an illustration that Tolkien made and I think it was Howe , who with his artistic ability, was ably to translate Tolkien's simple sketch into something more realistic that was used on one of the calendars. PJ filmed this, so it FELT right.

But, as you point out, PJ probably read it, thought it was a good quote and put his own spin on it without really understanding the meaning. I believe there is another thread on the forums discussing how Frodo had a bit of "foresight" perhaps because of the ring. He had that dream and another dream he had of Gandalf on the pinnacle of Orthanc, but that's another discussion.


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## Tonycarter (Mar 17, 2022)

Of course the book, because the movie was made based on it.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (May 22, 2022)

I don't think the movies can compare with the literary genius of Tolkien's writing. Obviously, the book is better because it had to explain EVERYTHING and has so much more depth, wisdom and artistic beauty that the movie doesn't have, or at least doesn't have in the same way. That being said, however, I think the movies are superbly well done and I think that they might often inspire people to read the books. Not everyone is going to sit down and read the entire Lord of the Rings especially since at first sight, the whole trilogy is very intimidating if you aren't that into reading books. I think they both totally have their place, but I will admit that the books are WAY better and there are things in the movies I wish they hadn't cut out or added. Honestly, I love both the books and the movies and I just enjoy all of Tolkien's incredible writing. There is so much depth and beauty and wisdom in those books, my favorite books by far. But, to answer the question: The books are totally better!


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