# carcharoth vs ancalagon



## ulfang (May 24, 2021)

i dont know if this is already a thread or not but..

who would win Ancalagon the Black the greatest dragon ever to live or Carcharoth the greatest wolf who ever lived.



ps: this is my first thread so sorry if i posted it in the wrong place


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## Olorgando (May 24, 2021)

ulfang said:


> ... defeated Huan ...


Not quite. Huan killed Carcharoth outright, while Huan "only" succumbed to the wounds Carcharoth had given him due to the fact that Morgoth had made Carcharoth's fangs poisonous. And it must have been an exceptional poison, which perhaps only Morgoth in his evil could concoct, because I believe Huan was pretty much immune to almost all other poisons.


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## Gothmog (May 24, 2021)

Ok, First off, Carcharoth did not defeat Huan even after being enraged by the burning of the Silmaril in his stomach. Huan killed Carcharoth but died shortly after because of the poison of Carcharoth. As for who would win between Carcharoth and Ancalagon, Anc would just sit back and BBQ the wolf and then eat him


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## ulfang (May 24, 2021)

Fixed it
😁


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## 1stvermont (May 24, 2021)

On first thought i would have to say Ancalagon the Black.


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## Aldarion (May 24, 2021)

ulfang said:


> i dont know if this is already a thread or not but..
> 
> who would win Ancalagon the Black the greatest dragon ever to live or Carcharoth the greatest wolf who ever lived.
> 
> ...


Ancalagon. I mean, beyond the whole "wolf barbecue" thing, Carcharoth got defeated by Huan, whereas Ancalagon and his dragons drove back the host of Valar. Granted, we do not know how many dragons were there, but seeing how even the remnants of dragons could devastate cities or even kingdoms...


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 25, 2021)

1stvermont said:


> On first thought i would have to say Ancalagon the Black.


So was I XD


Aldarion said:


> ...Ancalagon. I mean, beyond the whole "wolf barbecue" thing, Carcharoth got defeated by Huan, whereas Ancalagon and his dragons drove back the host of Valar...


Exactly, Carcharoth even had to get "drugged" by the Silmaril strictly speaking, so that he could achieve the basic standard of "dragons survivals of the War of Wrath" of devastating states and cities, it's enough lucky for Carcharoth if he didn't become Huan's dinner already. XD


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## ulfang (May 26, 2021)

i was actually going with Carcharoth due to a quote from sil I cant remember the exact phrasing but it was along the lines of and no greater terror was ever unleashed from Angband


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## Olorgando (May 26, 2021)

ulfang said:


> i was actually going with Carcharoth due to a quote from sil I cant remember the exact phrasing but it was along the lines of and no greater terror was ever unleashed from Angband


Alcuin, in this post, in the paragraph following the second link ...









If Fingolfin was the best swordsman in middle-earth history, why could he not defeat the morgoth?


Except for eönwe, fingolfin is shown as the best swordsman on all sites on the internet. So if he is so talented, why couldn't he defeat the morgoth in a one-on-one sword fight?




www.thetolkienforum.com





... mentions something that I think we need to keep in mind about JRRT's writings.

JRRT's criticism of allegory was principally aimed at its improper, one could say "sloppy" use.
JRRT's *own* use of hyperbole can be criticized in a similar fashion. Especially in the writing collected in the first two volumes of HoMe, "Book of Lost Tales" volumes 1 and 2, we can read about JRRT going overboard in some of his descriptions. He very much toned this down in his later revisions.
I wonder if this has to do with JRRT not having shaken free of his primary sources yet, the Norse sagas (and the Finnish Kalevala, and probably also Celtic legends). Those bards very definitely had a tendency to hyperbole, and at that early phase of writing JRRT may have not quite found his own voice yet. He was at his best when he did *not* "copy 'n' paste" from them, but used them as a "mulch" from which he grew his own legendarium. The transition from the original story of Kullervo from the Finnish Kalevala, through JRRT's own version of Kullervo, to Túrin Turambar of his legendarium is a good examples. And still, even in LoTR, as Alcuin points out, both Treebeard and Tom Bombadil could both be called "eldest". 🤨


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## Gothmog (May 26, 2021)

ulfang said:


> i was actually going with Carcharoth due to a quote from sil I cant remember the exact phrasing but it was along the lines of and no greater terror was ever unleashed from Angband


While it is true that


> Of all the terrors that came ever into Beleriand ere Angband's fall the madness of Carcharoth was the most dreadful; for the power of the Silmaril was hidden within him.


This would not have had any effect on Anc for the reasons that Anc could fly far out of Carcharoth's reach and also have a BBQ at the same time.


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