# Did the ring have power over all people wether(sp) they posessed it or not?



## Celebthôl (Oct 22, 2002)

Simple question (or is it)?
I believe that the ring did over bearers (both old and new) i.e Gollums case.
But i don't believe that it had power over none bearers (those who had never beared it) i.e Boromir, howerver i do believe that the only power it had, was that people knew of how powerful it was and that they knew that if they used it then Sauron would be defeated (I believe that Boromir did want to help his country with the ring but when the wise said that no-one could wield it he didn't believe them, (why should he because no-one had ever tryed to use it's power before except Sauron himself).

Also what did the ring actually do because it couldn't just magically create vast armies to fend off Sauron (nothing else could have helped at that point)! Did it work in the same way as the Dwarven rings i.e it needs power to get power (which still wouldn't have helped at that point because the "Goodies" didn't have altogether much power.

Celeb


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## gate7ole (Oct 23, 2002)

I think that the ring had the ability to draw the evil near it. Maybe it didn't affect the good people, but remember the lake-creature in front of Moria gates. Or the Barrow-wights.
Also the film shows that the ring caused the disaggreements in the council of Elrond, but it may just be a false interpretation by PJ.
In general the ring affected other people depending on their "amount" of evil in their blood.


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## Celebthôl (Oct 23, 2002)

but saying that Boromir was purely good i mean he wantedto save gondor (the world of men) with the ring, but i believe that he believed that he could have controlled the ring himself and destroyed sauron i.e he only wanted the power of the ring not the possesion of it


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## gate7ole (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> i.e he only wanted the power of the ring not the possesion of it


It really doesn't change much. Lust for the Ring itself could not be the case for Boromir. He hadn't obtained the Ring previously so that he lusted for taking it back. On the contrary, he wanted the power that the Ring gave to the bearer. Either case, the evil of the Ring is in action. Boromir's lust for power to conquer Sauron could not be regarded as good. He certainly had similar intentions before the appearence of the Ring but the enlargment of them was a direct cause of it.


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 24, 2002)

Yes,the ring has power over almost anyone.It lures and calls the free peoples to use it under the false pretense that they would get great power,which they would,but it would corrupt them and put them under Sauron's dominion.


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## Elennainie (Oct 24, 2002)

> Also the film shows that the ring caused the disaggreements in the council of Elrond, but it may just be a false interpretation by PJ.



Regarding this, I cannot say whether it was a false interpretation or not, but I did think this a marvelously well done scene of symbolic importance in the movie. Regardless of whether the ring was actually causing the specific disagreements at the council, it is ever the way of evil to sow dissension and mistrust among its enemies. So, in this respect, I thought the reflections of the characters in the shiny gold of the ring was a good way to visually portray the concept of Sauron trying to undermine any joint cooperation among his enemies.


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## LadyGaladriel (Oct 24, 2002)

> Yes,the ring has power over almost anyone.It lures and calls the free peoples to use it using the false pretense that they would get great power,which they would,but it would corrupt them and put them under Sauron's dominion






This is exactly true with the case of Boromir. It draws out your worst traits of greed and selfishness.


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## *Lady Arwen* (Oct 28, 2002)

But it didn't happen to Aragorn


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## Celebthôl (Oct 28, 2002)

Thank you thats my point he didn't exactly realize how badly Gondor needed help and so didn't want the power as badly


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## Celebthôl (Oct 28, 2002)

but it would corrupt them and put them under Sauron's dominion.

if this is the case then why was Gollum not under his dominion or bilbo either?


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## *Lady Arwen* (Oct 28, 2002)

Cause Sauron wasn't so strong then...?
Well I don't know!


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## Celebthôl (Oct 28, 2002)

but the 1 ring never ever brought n e 1 under saurons dominion


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## Mrs. Maggott (Oct 29, 2002)

But it didn't happen to Aragorn <quote>

I don't think that we can say that the Ring did not "call" to Aragorn. Indeed, he was one to whom the Ring would have especially called given his situation. With the Ring (or so it would say), he would be King! Not only King of all Middle Earth, but have to wife the woman that he loved! No, I do not think we can discount the blandishments the Ring would have used on Aragorn when it got near enough to him to do so.

But when it did, it found an unwilling partner and there are several reasons for that. First, there can be no doubt that Aragorn was keenly aware of Isildur's failing with regards to the Ring. He says in the Council of Elrond that when Gandalf asked for his help to find Gollum, that it was "fitting that Islidur's heir labor to repair Isildur's fault". Doubtless, this family failing, if you will, had been made known to him at the same time as his heritage.

Secondly, Aragorn was simply too intelligent to be deceived by the Ring. It is not that he was too strong - even Gandalf was not that strong - but he was intelligent enough to know that the Ring was a deceiver and that, like Islidur, it would betray him to his death and perhaps the death of those whom he loved above all, his "elf family" in Rivendell.

Thirdly, Aragorn had schooled himself to be patient and also to recognize his own failings. He had great responsibilities arising out of his heritage, but unlike poor Boromir who had to meet both his father's and his people's expectations AND "save the day" at all times, Aragorn was not under such pressure to triumph "immediately". Therefore, he was not subject to the Ring's promises of victory in battle and the subsequent salvation of the homeland as was poor Boromir.

In spite of all this - and although Tolkien does not address the matter directly - I don't think one can unequivocally state that the Ring had no lure for Aragorn, only that he was able to overcome what lure there was.


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## Rangerdave (Oct 30, 2002)

*RD's trying to be clever again! He never learns*

Okay kids, strap yourselves in. It’s time for Ranger Dave’s completely off the wall theory of the week.

As far as the theory of the One Ring having the ability to effect persons not physically wearing it goes, I believe that it is a sound one. But I will only go so far as to think that it effects men. Elves seem to be immune and Dwarves are too strong willed (stiff-necked?) to come under the Ring’s spell. But the Men who gain knowledge of the Ring seem to be changed while in the proximity of it. Even Wizards seem to be effected by the Ring’s propinquity. It is my theory that One Ring has the ability to play upon psyche of those near it. In effect, it pulls the deepest doubts and fears from the minds of those who come near it. 

Let me explain how I have come to this bizarre conclusion. 
First examine the thoughts and actions of the mannish races in proximity of the Ring, and then contrast that with their thoughts and actions when the influence of the Ring is removed. (Note, I will not examine Frodo as this discussion only applies to those not in physical contact with the ring)

Sam seems to escape the pull of the Ring, but I attribute this to two separate factors. First is Sam’s dogged devotion to his master. Second is Sam’s rather simple outlook and intellect. I don’t want to say that Sam was stupid, but he’s not the sharpest tool in the Gardener’s shed. This, along with his almost childlike purity, was what probably saved Sam from the will of the Ring. 

Merry and Pippin are effected, but only slightly. Both are young Hobbits in the presence of the most high and wise of the North and the West. Before the attack at Sarn Gabir (sp?) this pair actions alludes to the fact that they feel very small and useless. Merry and Pippin secretly wish to be accepted on their own merits, but fear that they may actually be insignificant. Up until they are captured, this pair does little to aid the quest, and in many ways hinder the Nine Walkers from their appointed tasks. Compare this with their bravery and compassion expressed afterwards. I seriously doubt that Merry, if still afflicted by such crushing doubts, could have dealt the Lord of the Nazgul such a blow; or that Pippin would have dared march to the Gates of Mordor and fell a troll in open combat.

Now, this brings us to Men. Aragorn was without doubt the single greatest woodsman of that age. His skill in battle and his ability to command are well known. But like all men past reckless youth, he wonders when his luck must surely run dry. From Bree to the Andiun, his decision-making processes seem to be clouded. Aragorn’s secret fear is not that the west will fail, but rather that he will prove unworthy to wed Arwen Evenstar. He is afraid that his choices will be unsound, and the ring accentuates his inner doubts. After the breaking of the Fellowship, Aragorn choices and actions grow steadily more confident and consistent. His fighting skill does not change, because open combat is ruled more by training and instinct than reason, but his ability to command increases dramatically as his proximity to the Ring lessens. 

Boromir suffers a different much the fate. His inner flaw is that he is too sure of his own abilities. He thinks himself unbeatable in single combat and his fear is that the Kingdom of Gondor will fall if he does not personally defend it. In this the Ring has both fears and lust to play upon. This I believe was the reasoning behind Galadriel’s warning that the company is on the edge of the knife. She was able to perceive Boromir’s fears and desires, and reasoned that they might prove to be his undoing. 

Gandalf, of all the fellowship knew what the result of the Ring’s return to the hand of Sauron would be. But even Gandalf’s angelic wisdom seems to be somewhat slowed in the presence of the Ring. Granted it always a good idea to be sure of ones decisions, but why not send Frodo and the Ring to Rivendell if even a chance remained of Bilbo’s Ring proving to be the one true Ring. It seems to me that the Ring was able to play upon even a Wizard’s doubts and make him seek proofs when caution would seem to advise moving the Ring and its bearer to a more secure location. Gandalf most fears that the ring will be recaptured and that his mission will end in failure. Dooming all once free peoples to the slavery of Mordor. Quite possibly, the Ring could have played upon this fear to lead Gandalf to leave the Ring hidden, but unprotected. Of course, Gandalf’s actions after the removal of the Ring are difficult to determine. The change from the Grey into the White is profound indeed, but the Ring may have influenced even the White. 


As I stated earlier, this is only a theory. I do not claim that any of the examples presented here are proofs, only points to ponder. As the Pondering Penguin is wont to do.

RD

I feel sure that either Grond or his band of Merry Pranksters will have a field day ripping this theory to shreds.
shudder.


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## Celebthôl (Oct 30, 2002)

I'm not sure if u mean this but it did have power over the white (Saruman) he never even saw the ring nor did he come within 100 miles of it (before he started to desire it) and it still had power over him!
also can anyone answer my second question what did the ring actually do? (i.e summon armies, rain bolts of lightning on the ememies)?

Celeb


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## Mrs. Maggott (Oct 30, 2002)

The Ring is, in effect, evil incarnate; that is, its effect upon those around it is very much as evil would effect them. Thus, Saruman - who has long studied the Enemy's arts - has already "opened himself" the the influence of the Ring even though it never comes anywhere near him. HE seeks the Ring, not vice versa.

As for Aragorn: he does fear the fall of the West (as do all free peoples) because he understands his obligation as King (even hidden) to prevent it. Yet, he can see no way to prevent it other than with years of anxious toil winning occasional victories against the ever increasing might of Sauron. By the time the Ring comes to the fore, he would seem to be the "perfect candidate" for its blandishments - and yet, he alone among the great seems almost disinterested in possessing it. It may be the fact that his love for Arwen has somehow "purified" his baser lusts - including the lust for power to which both Isildur and Boromir succumbed - or it simply could be that his knowledge and intellect convinced him that the Ring was a lie and would not deliver on its promises of invincibility. Whatever the reason, Aragorn does not desire the Ring.

As for his judgment on the quest: at the Redhorn Gate, he tells Gandalf that he "does not approve" of the quest. We aren't told whether that means that he believes that their journey doomed to failure or that he wanted to do something else with the Ring perhaps to gain time for the elves to leave Middle Earth before attempting anything so dangerous as taking the Ring to Mordor. Tolkien does not elucidate the matter. If Aragorn believes that their quest is doomed to failure, then obviously his judgments about what to do during it are going to be tentative at best. When the Ring is removed and he no longer believes himself to be personally responsible for its fate, the choices - and the decisions - become much more clear and easy to make. I don't know if it was the Ring that clouded his judgment or whether his own lack of belief in their course of action made it difficult for him to lead the quest upon the fall of Gandalf.

Sam is spared the brunt of the Ring because of his purity and greatness of heart. Since his most sincere desire is for the welfare of others (Frodo in particular), the Ring has no place to attack. It cannot offer him anything of value and so, it is impotent.

Frodo's fall to the Ring has far more to do with physical weakness engendered by pain, suffering and want than by any blandishments of the Ring. Had he been able to reach the Fire by an easier route, I believe he would have been able to destroy it himself. However, by the time he reached Sammath Naur, he was, quite literally, at the end of his rope. It was then fairly easy for the Ring, in its place of ultimate power, to overthrow his mind.

Gandalf was especially open to the Ring's lure because he KNEW what Sauron was and what he would become upon regaining the Ring. The Ring offered the Wizard a "guaranteed" victory but the price was high: another Sauron in place of the present one. Despite his desire to fulfill his mission and save the peoples of Middle Earth, Gandalf had long ago decided that the price was too high.

The Ring - as the incarnation of evil - affected each person according to his or her own inner demons and angels. Distance was important, but as noted with Saruman, not essential if the will to possess the Ring was strong.


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## Gandalf White (Nov 6, 2002)

> Elves seem to be immune



The rest of your theory was good, but remember Galadriel? She was tempted.

Celeb: Not exactly sure of the rings total power. The wearer could read peoples minds, and the one ring had the power to control the others. It depended on how much power you already had; i.e. Gandalf would have been deadly.

Anyway.... Sorry for the limited knowledge.


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