# rescuing princesses?



## GuardianRanger (Jun 10, 2004)

As I am reading The Annotated Hobbit, I'm sure I'm going to be coming up with a bunch of questions. I'll try to keep it to a slow pace. Anyway.

In the beginnng, Bilbo is talking to Gandalf, and Gandalf has revealed his name. Bilbo says:



> Not the fellow who used to tell such wonderful tales at paries, about dragons and gobblins and giants and the recue of princesses and the unexpected luck of widows' sons?



Is there any mention _anywhere_ as to what princesses needed rescuing? I know this was written before Lord Of The Rings, and it was written for children, but I was just wondering if there was more to this sentence.


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## baragund (Jun 10, 2004)

Idril comes to mind. She was Turgon's daughter and she fell in love with Tuor. The two of them, along with a few others, escaped the sack of Gondolin. Regarding "unexpected luck of widow's sons", that's Turin all over even though his mother Morwen wasn't _technically_ a widow. He had plenty of unexpected luck and it was all bad! Versions of both of these stories existed years before The Hobbit was written so it's possible JRRT had them in mind.

I just read that part of The Hobbit to my 5 year old (for the second time!) and I was wondering the same thing.  

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need more info.


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## Inderjit S (Jun 10, 2004)

I guess it is one of those anamolous tidbits of information which appears so often in 'The Hobbit'. But then again it may have just been a tale of Gandalf's to entertain the Hobbits, a fable if you will.


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## GuardianRanger (Jun 10, 2004)

I really didn't think there was anything to it. It just stuck out at me as I read it. But I haven't read HOME, or the Lost Tales books; so I wasn't sure if I had missed anything.


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## Tarlanc (Nov 29, 2004)

Lúthien was rescued, too. She was rescued by Huan when held captive in Nargothrond.

Who knows what other Princesses have been rescued during the second age that we don't know about.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 29, 2004)

I agree.

There must have been many a fair lady who was kidnapped by a nasty troll, and one of the brave Dunedain came to her aid. 

Perhaps the woman Tom Bombadil refers to (_The Fellowship of the Ring: Fog on the Barrow-Downs_) was one such 'princess' kidnapped by an evil man, but unfortunately not rescued?


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## Walter (Nov 29, 2004)

It never occured to me that Tolkien might be referring to his own tales with that remark.

Since he wrote the tale for his children I assumed he would be alluding to tales they knew, like of dragons guarding their "hoards" - often including a virgin or a princess - or of princesses "kidnapped" by goblins which come in folk- and fairy-tales like those of the Brothers Grimm, Andrew Lang or George MacDonald.

But of course I may be wrong...


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 29, 2004)

But those same dragons and goblins might have just as easily kidnapped princesses in Middle-earth.

And I doubt _anyone_ is wrong here.


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## Valandil (Nov 29, 2004)

Tarlanc said:


> ...Who knows what other Princesses have been rescued during the second age that we don't know about.



Yes - Third Age as well - and maybe the First Age too. There are thousands of years of possibilities among them, and maybe dozens of kingdoms from which they could have come (many not even named).


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## baragund (Nov 29, 2004)

Don't forget Finduilas and Glaurung during the sack of Nargothrond, but then again, there was no _rescue_. She and all the other maidens were slaughtered or enslaved. What a bummer!


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## FrankSinatra (Nov 30, 2004)

I think it was a literal reference, just a stereo-type of a 'tale' that one might tell.


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## Valandil (Dec 4, 2004)

Yes FS - I've been thinking along those lines lately. I don't suppose EVERY story they had in Middle Earth would have been a 'true' story from an actual event there... they must have had 'pretend' stories, some ME equivalent of our 'fairy tales', etc.

Gandalf may have just been a big-time storyteller to the children of the Shire!  (although the ME setting DOES allow for a lot of potential princesses needing to be rescued...  )


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## treebeardgarden (Dec 21, 2004)

Valandil

Yes FS - I've been thinking along those lines lately. I don't suppose EVERY story they had in Middle Earth would have been a 'true' story from an actual event there... they must have had 'pretend' stories, some ME equivalent of our 'fairy tales', etc.

Gandalf may have just been a big-time storyteller to the children of the Shire!  (although the ME setting DOES allow for a lot of potential princesses needing to be rescued...  )
I think you may be right. perhaps it was JRR's way of starting a mythology/'fairy tale' for M.E. We all know that is why the books started. He was tired of the lack of mythology for his own country.
So perhaps it was a fable just for the hobbits .


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## Hammersmith (Jan 19, 2005)

In context, it would appear that the stories told were stories that Gandalf had particular experience with. Of course, at that stage in the legacy, the book was fairly stand-alone, and (if I recall correctly) Tolkein believed that any future publications of his works were unlikely. I would imagine that Gandalf's exploits, hinted at in his tales to the hobbits, were actual events that he participated in, yet were abandoned or left unexplored when Tolkein developed his character and tale further.


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## Eledhwen (Jan 21, 2005)

treebeardgarden said:


> perhaps it was a fable just for the hobbits .


They didn't need to make up fairy tales with the history they had; Bilbo may have been referring to stories like those of Turin Turambar, and Elwing who was Elrond's wife. From a simple Hobbit's viewpoint, all such high and noble ladies would probably class as princesses. Remember, Bilbo hadn't had any adventures yet (thank you very much!)


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## Starflower (Feb 11, 2005)

i was reading this passage just last night and go thinking about the bit 'unexpected luck of widows' sons'

Baragund mentioned Turin, but surely it is Tuor who qualifies for this accolade. Rian was a widow and Tuor indeed had unexpected luck, finding Gondolin, marrying the King's daughter and what not.. 

And it surely would have been a story Gandalf would have known well, seeing that from Tuor came Earendil, Elrond and ultimately Aragorn.


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## Valandil (Feb 11, 2005)

Starflower said:


> i was reading this passage just last night and go thinking about the bit 'unexpected luck of widows' sons'
> :
> :



Perhaps a staple of older Fairy Tales.

Also true of Tolkien himself though...


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