# The Greatest Debate



## Firawyn (Apr 4, 2008)

I was just re-reading some "Do Belrogs have Wings" threads, and was forced to ask myself - 

"Is THAT really the biggest Tolkien debate?"

What other unsettled debates of LOTR are there left standing?


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## HLGStrider (Apr 4, 2008)

What the heck was Tom Bombadil anyway?


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## Starbrow (Apr 4, 2008)

Why didn't the eagles just drop the Ring in Mount Doom?


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## Turgon (Apr 4, 2008)

Who is hotter Elijah or Orlando?


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## YayGollum (Apr 5, 2008)

Argh! Towards the Turgon person's answer as well as the fact that the correct answer has not yet been doled outwards. 

The correct answer ---> Who is the real hero of that The Lord Of The Rings story?


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## Thorin (Apr 5, 2008)

"Which is better, PJ's version or Tolkien's?' and other such blasphemous debates that foolish PJ supporters had the gumption of even thinking about it, never mind posting it.

Oh how the sparks flew on those ones!


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## Ghorim (Apr 5, 2008)

Starbrow said:


> Why didn't the eagles just drop the Ring in Mount Doom?



Actually, Starbow, someone has already postulated how the eagle strategy might have played out... in video form.


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## Prince of Cats (Apr 5, 2008)

Starbrow said:


> Why didn't the eagles just drop the Ring in Mount Doom?



Hah! Never thought of that one, thanks Starbrow


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## Firawyn (Apr 5, 2008)

Lots of great questions... but do we have any answers?


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## YayGollum (Apr 5, 2008)

Well, don't know if any of you people ever came up with the correct answers, but I have all of them, of course. 

1. Do Balrogs have wings? Depends on the Balrog. They are described as spirits of fire, smoke, and fear. All Ainur are only capable of manifesting themselves in ways that show off their natures. Therefore, only the flighty Balrogs had wings. Unfortunately, Tolkien never really gives us much information on any of their personalities. They were just bad dudes. *sigh*

2. What is Tom Bombadil's race? Wereworm. He could be Eru, sure, that makes Eru look a bit too pathetic for me. He could be a human who got really good at magic, but this does not seem likely. He could be a really talented as well as messed up and early experiment of Orc, but that is also unlikely. He could be some type of Ainur, but that works with my Wereworm idea anyways. They'd have to be a type of Ainur. As well as, a hobbit was our only source of Wereworm myth. Tom Bombadil was close by, could have helped out with such a myth. 

3. Why didn't the eagles drop the One Ring into Mount Doom? Short attention spans as well as an unresistable flair for the dramatic.

4. Whose temperature is higher, one random actor versus some other random actor? Depends on many things. Temperment, health, environment. But, at the moment, ah, the first one. *did not flip a coin* 

5. Who is the real hero of that The Lord Of The Rings story? Gollum. What was the goal of the story? To destroy the One Ring. Who did that? Gollum. Without him, would the day have been saved? Only if the book was rewritten in a largely different way.

6. Which is better, the latest movie version of the story or the book form? I would require a definition of better, but overall, adding up every possible definition, the book form is better, easily. No contest, yo.

And another! --->

7. What are nasssty hobbitses, truly (id est, apparently, what are the origins of the race)? Makar and Measse, of course. The two warlike Ainur, deleted from most writings. They were actually into Mel's music in the beginning, but they ended up hanging out in Valinor with the good guys, so they weren't too bad, I guess. Having paid more attention to Mel's ways than the others, they eventually came up with the nasssty hobbitses as a secret weapon versus evil. These two were quite martial, known for being awesome at fighting and such, just not as great as the idiot Tulkas. The nasssty hobbitses are frustratingly awesome at anything they set there minds to.

My older theories ---> elves ---> Orcs ---> Goblins ---> Hobgoblins ---> nasssty hobbitses, what happened when a few hobgoblins became less evil, giving them some brand of resistance against it.

And ---> An offshoot of Beorning stock. They lived around the same area, as well as, the One Ring hands powers suited to the sorts that the individual already possesses. Gollum got all froggish, fishish, showing off the Beorning animal shapeshiftiness.


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## chrysophalax (Apr 6, 2008)

Gotta disagree with you on your last point, Yay. I'm not sure if I would actually go so far as to say he was evolving (or devolving), but as you say, it brought out all his "qualities", then twisted them, thereby fueling his need for isolation, ramping up his sense of paranoia, enhancing his hobbitish sneakiness and giving him one heck of a stage presence! I suppose the makeover he received over the 600+ years with his precious would be some kind of, um....bonus? 

All the Ring did was bring out Gollum's "inner amphibian". 

And, oi! Wereworm???


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## YayGollum (Apr 6, 2008)

Hm? Disagreeing? But all of my answers are the correct ones.  oh well.  The makeover was a bonus but also the resurfacing of a latent Beorning talent. The One Ring thing could have made him magically sneaky in water or good at swimming or whatever, just as it magically enhances other attributes. Why would it have given him flippers? Resurfacing latent Beorningness makes sense.

And towards the Wereworm answer, what? It makes the most sense, to myself. Not a fan of Wereworms?


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## HLGStrider (Apr 6, 2008)

Wereworm!

Thereworm!

What?

Thereworm. Therecastle.

Why are you talking like that? 

I dunno, I thought you wann'ed ta.


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## Firawyn (Apr 8, 2008)

> My older theories ---> elves ---> Orcs ---> Goblins ---> Hobgoblins ---> nasssty hobbitses, what happened when a few hobgoblins became less evil, giving them some brand of resistance against it.



I love this theory, Yay. 


As far as Gollum and his _makeover_, well...er...h should have hired a different guy to help him with that...fashion is not Sauron's forte...


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## Barliman Butterbur (Apr 9, 2008)

Firawyn said:


> I love this theory, Yay.
> 
> 
> As far as Gollum and his _makeover_, well...er...h should have hired a different guy to help him with that...fashion is not Sauron's forte...



Did you know Gollum has a twin brother? It's James Carville... 

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Apr 10, 2008)

*Dwarf Music*

Another gripping debate....

What on Middle-earth happened to the Dwarves' musical instruments?

Did they leave them at Bag End?

Did they lose them in the encounter with the Trolls?

Did they leave them at Rivendell?

Did they lose them in the encounter with the Goblins (the last place they could have still had them, IMO)?

(goes back to sleep)


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## chrysophalax (Apr 10, 2008)

Personally, I think it was just another of the many charming details Tolkien put into The Hobbit, rather like the fox who, a la Narnia, talks to himself. 

As a children's book, it's second to none, written in a way I wish all books for young people could be, taking for granted that they already have a good vocabulary and imagination, not needing to be spoon-fed every last plot twist.

The fact that he included so much foreshadowing makes it all the more brilliant. The Hobbit is the perfect bridge between the Silmarillion and the Lord of the Rings, a refreshing respite between two great epics and as such, to be savoured all the more.


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## Firawyn (Apr 11, 2008)

Well said, Chrys. 

Good question though, Eledhwen. What did happen to them? Could they perhaps be included in the items that are described in LotR of Frodo's that are simply called (not quoting, this is off the top of my head) "the things Bilbo collected on his journeys..." ?


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