# Cirdan's age



## morgoth145

i am sure that it has been asked before on the forum, but i'm going to ask anyway.
how old is Cirdan? 

if you know a thread that already answers the question, please leave a link.

many thanks
Morgoth145


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## Erestor Arcamen

It's never been given as to how old exactly he is. I know that in the First Age he was a ruler of the Teleri under Elwë during the time of the long wait in Beleriand. That's when he fell in love with the sea. When Ulmo came back to pickup the Teleri on Tol Eressëa, Cirdan and his followers remained in Beleriand. He may have been one of the elves to first awaken at the beginning. Here's my sources for the info above: Cirdan LOTR Wiki Page and Encyclopedia of Arda: Cirdan


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## Thorin

I do not believe Cirdan was one of the first elves to awaken. Though at this moment, I couldn't lay out for you the specifics of my findings, in the past I calculated that at the time of the end of the Third Age, Cirdan was approximately 10000 years old. Galadriel was about 8000 years old. You can figure this out based on the time lines given in HoME X: Morgoth's Ring.


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## Erestor Arcamen

Thanks Thorin, I was just going by info I read on wiki's and some other forums. I haven't read a lot of HOME though. I know he was one of the eldest in ME and one of my favorite characters. It really interests me when the hobbits and others in LOTR come into contact with characters/places from the Silmarillion. I guess it's because Beleriand is gone, with very few remnants left in ME. And those characters they're meeting have seen so much and experienced so much in the world.


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## Inderjit S

As Cirdan is a cousin or nephew of Elwe, who presumably has a pretty large extended family, since he has at least two cousins at the time of the march (Cirdan and Eol6,) it is safe to assume that he is a third, fourth or fifth generation Elf. 
Now, we are working within time-scales here the Years of the Trees (YoT) and the Years of the Sun, which is the normal earth based timescale (YoS). One YoT=9.52 YoS. 
The Elves awoke in YoT 1050, and the march began in 1105, 55 YoT or 523 YoS later. Now, the Elves reached the Anduin in 1,115, this is an important date in terms of Cirdan's age, as Cirdan was said to have been one of the most skilled Elves in building ships _during_ the Great March, especially when the Elves dwelt in the Sea of Rhun, so Cirdan would have been a fully grown adult at the start of and during themarch due to his importance in shipbuilding matters during the march. Also, I don't think Cirdan ever married, Toklien states that Elves marry not long after they come into adulthood, which as the age of 50, or 5 years of the Trees, though sometimes during periods of great strife or upheaval Elves didn't marry/reproduce, given the fact that the March was one of the greatest periods of upheaval was the march, it would make sense that Cirdan became an adult not long before the summons for the march, and discovered his love for ship building during the march, which may have, for whichever reason, inhibited his desire for marriage, the fact that he became a sort of quasi-leader amongst the branch of Telerin Elves also implies that he was an adult before the march, and him being a 5th/6th/76 generation Elf also makes sense given his large extended family. So given the summons was in the YoT 1101, let's assume Cirdan would have recently come into adulthood, we will give his birthday at YoT 1095, which would make him roughly 57 at the time of the summons and roughly 84 at the time of the march. Now, there were 1,500 YoT, so 1,500-1,095= 405 YoT, let's multiply this by 9.52=3,855 Years of the Sun.
Now, lets add this to the subsequent Three Ages. 
3,855+ 590 (First Age)=4,445.6
+3,441 (Second Age)=7,886.6
3,120 (Third Age)=10,907.6.
So a rough guesstimate would be 10,907 years old, though he may have been 30-40 years older.


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## Inderjit S

This would also make Cirdan older than Treebard, since the Ent's didn't truly 'awaken' until the Elves reached the Anduin.


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## Inderjit S

As Cirdan is a cousin or nephew of Elwe, who presumably has a pretty large extended family, since he has at least two cousins at the time of the march (Cirdan and Eol6,) it is safe to assume that he is a third, fourth or fifth generation Elf. 
Now, we are working within time-scales here the Years of the Trees (YoT) and the Years of the Sun, which is the normal earth based timescale (YoS). One YoT=9.52 YoS. 
The Elves awoke in YoT 1050, and the march began in 1105, 55 YoT or 523 YoS later. Now, the Elves reached the Anduin in 1,115, this is an important date in terms of Cirdan's age, as Cirdan was said to have been one of the most skilled Elves in building ships _during_ the Great March, especially when the Elves dwelt in the Sea of Rhun, so Cirdan would have been a fully grown adult at the start of and during themarch due to his importance in shipbuilding matters during the march. Also, I don't think Cirdan ever married, Toklien states that Elves marry not long after they come into adulthood, which as the age of 50, or 5 years of the Trees, though sometimes during periods of great strife or upheaval Elves didn't marry/reproduce, given the fact that the March was one of the greatest periods of upheaval was the march, it would make sense that Cirdan became an adult not long before the summons for the march, and discovered his love for ship building during the march, which may have, for whichever reason, inhibited his desire for marriage, the fact that he became a sort of quasi-leader amongst the branch of Telerin Elves also implies that he was an adult before the march, and him being a 5th/6th/76 generation Elf also makes sense given his large extended family. So given the summons was in the YoT 1101, let's assume Cirdan would have recently come into adulthood, we will give his birthday at YoT 1095, which would make him roughly 57 at the time of the summons and roughly 84 at the time of the march. Now, there were 1,500 YoT, so 1,500-1,095= 405 YoT, let's multiply this by 9.52=3,855 Years of the Sun.
Now, lets add this to the subsequent Three Ages. 
3,855+ 590 (First Age)=4,445.6
+3,441 (Second Age)=7,886.6
3,120 (Third Age)=10,907.6.
So a rough guesstimate would be 10,907 years old, though he may have been 30-40 years older.


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## Thorin

Inderjit S said:


> This would also make Cirdan older than Treebard, since the Ent's didn't truly 'awaken' until the Elves reached the Anduin.



Actually it wouldn't, Inderjit. Gandalf says that Treebeard is the 'oldest living thing in ME'. This would place him older than Cirdan as Cirdan was also in ME. As was pointed out on another thread, being 'awoken' was probably a euphemism for being cured of dumbness. That means they were living before this 'awakening' occurred. 

Also, it was shown that the Elves and the Ents became alive at the same time. Thus, as Cirdan was most likely not one of the Elves that awoke, would put Treebeard older than he anyway.


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