# Unknown Creatures



## Galan`Black (Jan 19, 2002)

I have read the Silmarillion only once so do not flame me for not knowing this answer on my own, but where in the Silmarillion did it note during the creation of Middle-Earth that there were unknown creatures created like Durin's Bane or the Creature in Sea at the entrance of the Mines of Moria. Where does it note that?


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## Mormegil (Jan 19, 2002)

Durin's Bane was not an unknown creature, it was a Balrog that escaped and lay hid after Morgoths fall in the First Age.

As for the watcher at the gate of Moria, I don't know but I'm sure that someone here will have the answer.


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## Gothmog (Jan 19, 2002)

It does not mention in the Silmarillion such creatures. However, it might be that these were created during the discords of Melkor during the Ainulindale while the different themes were battling. I doubt that all that was created at these points would have been either Good or Evil, there would most likely have been some that were inbetween and owning allegiance to no side. These may be the Nameless creatures below the Mines of Moria.


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## Thorondor (Jan 19, 2002)

It says in the Sil.(i think) and Lost tales 1, that when Melkor was imprisoned in the Halls of Mandos, he met "spirits" there and turned them to evil ways. I don't know how this matches up with the Music of the Ainur, or what exactly these "spirits" are, but some of these odd creatures, like the watcher of the water, the creatures under Moria, and Ungoliant could be them.


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## Flame of Utumno (Jan 20, 2002)

I think another interesting question to ask ourselves is whether the creature was totally created by Morgoth or whether they were previously good creatures that were seduced by him or corrupted by him. Ungoliant was probably one of those which were already in existence but were seduced as were the Balrogs. As for the orcs these were corruptions of already existing creatures.


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## Silver11/17 (Jan 20, 2002)

The response about the balrog was correct. I'm reading the Silmarillion now, and although I am not far through it, I have paid close attention to detail (even making charts and so forth, I'm afraid I'm a bit of a nerd) and balrogs were with Melkor in the First Age but escaped during his capture and hid in the deep places of the earth.


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## Galan`Black (Jan 21, 2002)

Though I think these are great questions about the Balrog because you have answered my questions about them, but does anyone anything about the Watcher of Moria?


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## TulKas Astaldo (Jan 22, 2002)

Well indeed, horses, crows, goblins, trolls, ents... None of these were ever said to be made by Illuvatar. They were all simply parts of the Music. The only major creations that were worthy of statement were the Vala, Maia, Elves, and Men. Durin's Bane, IMO, was simply a Balrog who was turned and then wrought in the fires of the deep pits of the Mines of Moria and simply couldn't escape the Mines... After all, he was much taller than a Dwarf, and even Gandalf had to stoop near the entrance.


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## Elbereth (Jan 23, 2002)

Question:

If the Valar under the guidence of the Illuvatar created all of Middle Earth and its creations...why is there no account of Tom Bombadill

Is he a Valar, a Maia, or an anomaly? 

I'm very curious...


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## Mormegil (Jan 23, 2002)

There is a seperate thread elsewhere that is completely devoted to the topic of 'Who is Tom Bombadil'. It is, at this time, 5 pages long. I don't think that we need to get into this topic on this thread.


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