# David Eddings - Tinged by Tolkien?



## Thistle Bunce (Sep 3, 2018)

Has anyone run across the fantasy works of David Eddings - mainly the Belgariad and the Malloreon? I read Pawn of Prophecy when it was first released, then, as is often the case, had to wait for the subsequent books to be published. Even at that first reading, without the rest of the story available, I kept 'whiffing' hints of Middle-earth, especially in the characters' racial descriptions. While there are no elves or orcs in the Belgariad, there are (to me) clear indications that Eddings drew on more than one Tolkienian prototype in populating his world.

The Sendars, for example, are presented as honest, hardworking, eminently practical folk who are skilled in all the homey things that keep an agricultural society productive and content with their lot. Woorworking, farming, smithing, large meals and many of them, all in all, it sounds very much like tall hobbits. The main character, Garion, spends the first part of his life here, being inculcated in all those values as he is an orphan being raised by distant kin. His aunt is the chief cook on a prosperous farm, and here Garion is watched over by the very embodiment of Sendarian values, the smith, Durning. Durning is common sense, courage, self-effacing, with a hidden streak of a poetic nature, just like the orphan Frodo's companion, Sam. For both Frodo and Garion, the presence of a rock-solid faithful friend is key to eventual success.

However, there are many more parallels that can be made, and I cannot wait to read what others unearth.


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## Miguel (Sep 3, 2018)

I've seen a few franchises that stole elements from Tolkien here and there, mostly names. There's probably many more cases i'm not aware of.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 3, 2018)

No fantasy writer in the last half-century has been able to escape the Master's influence, even when reacting against it.

As for Eddings, a tendency to repetitiveness -- or so I've heard.


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## Thistle Bunce (Sep 4, 2018)

Squint - no argument from me about the repetition - in fact, Eddings actually uses it as a literary device. Having written 5 books about Garion and his quest to control a certain talisman which will destroy all goodness and light if permitted to fall into the wrong hands (sound familiar?), he proceeded to write ANOTHER 5 books about a quest to control ANOTHER talisman, and makes the contextual case that the 2 talismans are so intertwined that events surrounding them tend to repeat themselves. (And thereby there was no need to write entire sections of the second set from scratch. Lazy? Quite possible, although without knowing his mindset, not proven, IMHO).

I did enjoy the Eddings books, if only because his characters are likable, flawed and appropriately snarky when the situation demands. Naturally, they are very reminiscent of Tolkien's character types (A were-bear, a Dark Lord in a tower, etc. etc.), but there was enough action to satisfy for a casual reading - bathroom or beach books, if you will. Certainly NOT worthy of the respect and deep study warranted by Tolkien's masterworks...but better than some others, who, as you say, did not escape the Master's influence. (Looking at you, Sword of Shannara).


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 4, 2018)

What -- you mean this guy?


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## Thistle Bunce (Sep 4, 2018)

That's the one. Great parody covers, BTW. In honesty - I could not even read much past the first third of Brooks' efforts - and I HATE to give up on books. But in his case, I decided that if I wanted to re-read Lord of the Rings, I would do it in the original Tolkien.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 4, 2018)

Yeah, same here. The Hildebrant cover with the Shannara "Fellowship" was enough to keep me away (never caring for the Hildebrant style didn't help). I tended to avoid books with blurbs beginning "Not since Tolkien. . ."

And there were a _lot _of those in the 70's. Copies of copies of copies. . .

As to those writers reacting _against _Tolkien, I did read Donaldson's first trilogy, but I was too sick of his whining antihero by the end to go on: "I'm a leper! I'm a leper!" (Sorry, can't post the cover for _that _one -- I'd be banned!).

I did find another "reactor" interesting: Tad Williams, in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. And of course, GRRM is continuing the tradition.


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## Thistle Bunce (Sep 4, 2018)

I can only HOPE that GRRM is continuing the tradition and will actually finish the books at some point in the not too distant future. (Never watched the video version of GOT, never will. I've seen enough clips to know that my mental images diverge enough from the cinematic ones to be more than fatally annoying. Went through that cognitive dissonance with Peter Jackson, thanks, but no thanks).

Donaldson's first trilogy became a slog, but I did go on and read the second one. Then, against my better judgment, I tried the Mordant's Need set, and enjoyed it much more than Thomas Covenant, he of the falling down and inspecting his extremities trope.

Tad Williams has been on my re-read list for a while, but keeps getting pushed farther down the wish list as other books become available on audio. 

Not sure of the 'reactor' label, but one series I found absolutely fascinating was Wheel of Time, by Robert Jordan. Although he did not live to publish the final volume, a credible job was done by Brandon Sanderson in order to bring the series to a satisfying conclusion. Not perfect, but good enough. And here again, we find those echoes of the Master from the flight from a secluded, almost unknown region out into the big, bad world, with all of the forces arrayed against our brave protagonist, to the talismans of power which must be withheld from those forces of evil...well, tis much the same premise. Well developed characters, acting within their prescribed limits for the most part, once the powers allotted to the Aes Sedai are accepted by the reader. And I agree with you about the cranking out of the copycats in the 70's, although I didn't catch up with many of them till much later.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 4, 2018)

I did enjoy Wheel of Time -- what I read of it. I was particularly struck by the strong female characters -- a bit unusual in a male fantasy writer, and perhaps part of the "reaction" to Tolkien.

It has been pointed out that the Aes Sedai exhibit a rather strange predilection for corporal punishment, considering their "advanced" status.

My problem was the multiplication of subplots and characters, which meant later books were barely inching forward, to the point of becoming almost inert.



I think he should have stuck to his original plan for eight books. But money beckoned, I suppose. . .

I got stuck around volume 11. I have them all, though, so I guess I'll get back to it at some point .

Then there's Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth: Wheel of Time, with extra sadism. And politics.


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## Thistle Bunce (Sep 5, 2018)

Again, no disagreement on most of your points - especially since you chose Book 10 for your brilliant parody cover. I did bog down in that very book, and let the series go for a while, hoping that the story would 1: Find itself again, and 2: Stop bringing in new characters that did nothing but slog through the snow, for pages and pages. Like Moby Dick and the descriptions of the ocean, once you say that it is big, wet and full of waves, what more is there?

I am ruminating on the corporal punishment aspect of the Aes Sedai, as it has been a while since I listened to WOT, and beyond requiring novices to do chores (pot scrubbing and scullery work, raking the gardens, etc.), I can't recall more than a few examples - the three oaths prohibiting Aes Sedai from using the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai meant that Aes Sedai had to manufacture situations wherein they could use their power to inflict pain on others. (Not relevant to Wise Ones, Black Ajah or the Asha'men). 

I also may suffer from a generational fault, corporal punishment, in appropriate form and measure is not necessarily a terrible thing...I recall being indignant when laws against corporal punishment prohibited teachers from asking students to scrub off a desk top on which those students had written (often obscene) graffiti. So the idea of making an apprentice run 50 laps around the camp, or haul rocks from one side of a field to another is not beyond the pale, if the goal is to firmly seat an important point, or prohibition in the younger mind. Or, as in the case of one Wise One Apprentice, to break her old thought habits, and encourage her to develop those qualities that will allow her to better use her power in service to her people. Some folks are darned hard to get through to. I guess this long-winded diatribe is to indicate that I see no lessening of the 'advanced' status of the Aes Sedai because of their use of these teaching methods, and, by extension, no great fault in the other power users for this either.

As to the Goodkind, was that the one with the hunting guide character? Gah. Conan the Libertarian, indeed!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 5, 2018)

It's been a while, so I may be wrong, but I seem to remember some spanking going on!

BTW -- these parody covers aren't mine-- I'm neither creative nor computer-savvy enough!


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 29, 2020)

Thistle Bunce said:


> Squint - no argument from me about the repetition - in fact, Eddings actually uses it as a literary device. Having written 5 books about Garion and his quest to control a certain talisman which will destroy all goodness and light if permitted to fall into the wrong hands (sound familiar?), he proceeded to write ANOTHER 5 books about a quest to control ANOTHER talisman, and makes the contextual case that the 2 talismans are so intertwined that events surrounding them tend to repeat themselves. (And thereby there was no need to write entire sections of the second set from scratch. Lazy? Quite possible, although without knowing his mindset, not proven, IMHO).
> 
> I did enjoy the Eddings books, if only because his characters are likable, flawed and appropriately snarky when the situation demands. Naturally, they are very reminiscent of Tolkien's character types (A were-bear, a Dark Lord in a tower, etc. etc.), but there was enough action to satisfy for a casual reading - bathroom or beach books, if you will. Certainly NOT worthy of the respect and deep study warranted by Tolkien's masterworks...but better than some others, who, as you say, did not escape the Master's influence. (Looking at you, Sword of Shannara).


I agree. His books were my first real forays into mature fantasy (in 6th grade, no less). I've read them a couple of times but they are rather lite when compared to Tolkien (most are, oddly Zelda, of all things, is the only one who comes close and only because of the visual easter eggs and stuff.).



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> View attachment 5540


As someone with libertarian leanings I find this hilarious.


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## Akhôrahil (Nov 30, 2020)

Did anybody read David Gemmel's books, especially the ones playing in the Drenai universe? The genre is heroic fantasy and not epic fantasy, but I love his characters who are not just "good" ("white") or "evil" ("black"), but "grey" and evolve and include themes of repentence, rationalizing selfish behaviour and a bit of philosophy about non-violence and good and evil. I liked Waylander best. Legend was also good, but some themes and character types are very recurring in his later books so that I had the impression that he was running out of ideas. I love the character Waylander and the psychology of intimidation in showdowns of a group of many against one when the one credibly threatens that he is not afraid to die in a fight against many.


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