# The Silmarillion: A book of Dark Tales



## Roilya (Dec 1, 2003)

I don't know if this topic has been made before, but here goes. I have recently read the Silmarillion, and although i was glad i had the opportunity to read a book like this, I was also filled with great sadness for most of the tales told in this book are sad and full of darkness. This could be, as my friend has told me, that Tolkien wrote the first part of the Silmarillion while in the trenches of WW1. If that is true i do not know. Im not trying to say that Tolkien was a satanist that wrote only about evil. Because there is good and beauty in his stories, but most times these happy tales are cast down by evil. Even in the joys and pleasures of love darkness looms in secret lusts unknown, which was the demise of many. Yet what i most admire about the Silmarillion is that hope endures, even through the darkest of times, which were many. And although good will always endure, there is always the loom of evil, the fear of darkness, and the lingering envy which is in everyone.

I know this post might be confusing to most, i tried my hardest to make it clear. Because i want the oppinions of others on this matter. So support and/or criticize away.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 2, 2003)

Tolkien started writing during WWI(is was around 1916 I am not quite sure).While he was sick he wrote a small story about The Fall of Gonldolin.

He created a whole world and he wanted it to be as real as possible.His Silmarillion can be considered as a historical encyclopedia of his world.



> but most times these happy tales are cast down by evil.


That is the reality Roilya,even our *real* world suffers from evil.Tolkien just made everything seem real and true.


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## Roilya (Dec 2, 2003)

i do not deny that there is evil in the world, but to have one main power that can corrupt and destroy the most pure of things is a little much for me. maybe because i dont see that in the world, but there probaly is a place where evil is the most dominant. i guess im just lucky i dont have to live there.


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## Eriol (Dec 2, 2003)

Tolkien knows how to keep the reader on the edge; and the many forecasts of doom in the Sil help that. Sentences like 

"But now the time was approaching when the forces of the Noldor and Sindar and of Men would face the hosts of Morgoth Bauglir, and go down in ruin"

are very good for that purpose (that was paraphrased). The "ominous" mood in the story is essential to prepare what Tolkien called the "eucatastrophe", the unforeseen ending that leads one to tears of joy. LotR follows the same technique. It is a desperate tale throughout the book, and it is only by an extraordinary twist of fate that Good prevails.

But Good _does_ prevail, in both stories; so I can't see how either book could be seen as a gloomy take on the real world. It is merely great storytelling, in my opinion.

As a side note, we have at least one work in which Tolkien does NOT use this tone -- this is of course The Hobbit. It is very hard for any reader of The Hobbit to actually _fear_ for Bilbo's happy ending while reading the book; the many snippets of comforting sentences like "Bilbo was then regretting his hasty decision to leave Bag End without a handkerchief -- and not for the last time!" have the opposite effect as those ominous sentences that pop here and there, both in the Sil and in LotR.

So, my own opinion is that Tolkien did not have an especially gloomy view of the world. He had the very Catholic (and Christian) awareness that this is a fallen world, and that it won't be ever "perfect"; but this is not pessimism.

And Tolkien knew how to make a cheery tale even in the gloomy part of the books... I always tremble when I remember the opening of Beren and Lúthien's chapter, where something like this can be found:

"But even in these tales of sorrow and ruin there were tales of joy amid weeping and light under darkness, and chief among these in the ears of the Elves is the tale of Beren and Lúthien"



It is a great opening to a great chapter. Tolkien was a great writer. But I guess everybody here knows that .


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 3, 2003)

posted by Eriol


> As a side note, we have at least one work in which Tolkien does NOT use this tone -- this is of course The Hobbit. It is very hard for any reader of The Hobbit to actually fear for Bilbo's happy ending while reading the book; the many snippets of comforting sentences like "Bilbo was then regretting his hasty decision to leave Bag End without a handkerchief -- and not for the last time!" have the opposite effect as those ominous sentences that pop here and there, both in the Sil and in LotR.


And the reason for that is simple.The Hobbit was written with the intention to be a book for children.Just a fairy tale for good children .


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## Eriol (Dec 3, 2003)

Fairy tales can be pretty gloomy and scary... I don't think any reading of Snow White or Little Red RidingHood (remember that in the original story the Grandma is eaten by the Wolf) can be seen as "upbeat" until the final happy ending.

In any case, what I was trying to show is that Tolkien's "gloominess" is not a matter of overall pessimism about the real world, it is a matter of style.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 3, 2003)

....And thanks to his style we are eager to reach the end and we never give up reading the book(LOTR)despite all those boring descriptions of places and etc.......


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## Roilya (Dec 3, 2003)

lol yeah, i see now he wasnt filled with evil he just wanted to make a really awesome book. which he did.


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## Lantarion (Dec 4, 2003)

Really fabulous posts there Eriol, it was a pleasure reading them. 

Just to add something, I think that in general the grandeur that Tolkien applies in the Silmarillion (applied in order to create an atmosphere of legendary events and mythical characters, who seem very vivid and real despite their natures) is what people see as pessimism or negativism. Because the style of writing in the Sil is so aloof and vague, creating a unique atmosphere, it can easily be perceived as even cruel.
But the events that happen in the First Age are inevitable due to Melkor's vanity and pride and evil mingling in Arda; he is the beginner of the woes of Arda, but even though his lies and deceit and cruelty 'live on' even after he is cast out the fact that he is no longer present, sowing new evils, is the reason that the Third Age was far less turbulent. There were wars, of course, but nothing of the magnitude of the War of Wrath or the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. 
The events in the Sil are saddening and grievous; but as Eriol pointed out well there were times of extreme splendour and wonder and beauty, the likes of which cannot ever be seen again.

Tolkien was truly not only a fabulous writer but also an amazing historian and legend-smith. We should all tip our hats to his memory, for he has given us so much.


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## Melko Belcha (Dec 4, 2003)

I think The Silmarillion's style or tone can be explained by a quote from The Hobbit. I don't have the book around for the exact quote. But when Bilbo reaches Rivendell Tolkien says something along the lines of, when things are good and happy they do not make good stories, it is when bad things happen that make good stories. Like I said, not the exact quote, but the point is there.

There are many times of peace in The Sil, but we barely hear anything about them, the time of the Elves in Valinor and ME during the Chaining of Melkor, the Siege of Angband brought peace for along time to many parts of Beleriand, and the time when Gondolin was shut off from all the wars outside it's ring of mountains. It is when war, misery, and suffering begin to happen that we learn much about the people.

It is just like real life. Look at the Romans, they had along time of peace, but in history books the main thing you hear about is there wars. Peace is great, but it does not make for that great of story telling. And the more horrible that bad things are, the better it makes the good things.


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## Roilya (Dec 4, 2003)

wow that really makes sense, ive never seen it in the point of story telling.


> The events in the Sil are saddening and grievous; but as Eriol pointed out well there were times of extreme splendour and wonder and beauty, the likes of which cannot ever be seen again.


 Thats whats sad to me the fact that there will be nothing ever like that happiness in the world again. its really demoralizing, to know that you will never see such beauty again, ever. but i guess thats what makes that event, or person, so special or beautiful. i am beginning to see the light


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## Melko Belcha (Dec 4, 2003)

Here's the quote I was talking about.

The Hobbit - A Short Rest


> Now it is a strange thing, but things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway.


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## HelplessModAddi (Dec 5, 2003)

> Thats whats sad to me the fact that there will be nothing ever like that happiness in the world again. its really demoralizing, to know that you will never see such beauty again, ever. but i guess thats what makes that event, or person, so special or beautiful. i am beginning to see the light


Precisely. This is the definition of death. Tolkein struggled with the idea of death a lot, and he attempted to create a deathless race to express his feelings about it. What ended up happening was that the biologically deathless, beautiful race experienced an even more lamentable fate - utter and complete fading and powerlessness. This is death in every sense except the physical one. EVERYTHING dies in the end. Man, elf, even god, are reduced to memory, dream and then nothing. Take a look around you. Whatever you see, whoever you know, whatever you love, is doomed to be lost forever, never to be recovered as it was. Including yourself. Including, if you think about it, evil itself. But you will not die without changing the world, even a little bit. Everyone leaves the world a little bit different than they left it. And whenever something dies, something new is born to replace it. These are things that Tolkien had seen were true in his life.

People usually take this to mean that since everything dies, everything should be cherished as much as it can be. While this makes a potent story - there is a better answer.

The point of the eucatastrophe, the point of faith, the whole point of Tolkien's works, is that when evil finally succeeds in self-destructing (since death is plainly a consequence of evil, though perhaps it is not evil in itself) what emerges from the ashes will be better than the original design. The new that comes in the wake of the death of the old is more glorious than the old was when it was new. That belief is the answer to the despair that threatens to take one when reading the Silmarillion. Evil is futile.


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## Lhunithiliel (Dec 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by HelplessModAddi _
> People usually take this to mean that since everything dies, everything should be cherished as much as it can be.


A good foundation for the story of the Numenoreans!  



> The point of the eucatastrophe, the point of faith, the whole point of Tolkien's works, is that when evil finally succeeds in self-destructing (since death is plainly a consequence of evil, though perhaps it is not evil in itself) what emerges from the ashes will be better than the original design. The new that comes in the wake of the death of the old is more glorious than the old was when it was new. That belief is the answer to the despair that threatens to take one when reading the Silmarillion. Evil is futile. [/B]


Which leads me again to sth. I always wonder about while reading the Silm and the HoMe-s - why let beauty and perfection perish so ruthlessly crushed by evil only to let it be reborn again?

Look at the whole cycle of Ages - each one finishes with a war - a war that shatters everything in that world...and then a new Age is born - in peace and glory for the "good" yet this status quo does not last long and evil rises again...



> since death is plainly a consequence of evil, though perhaps it is not evil in itself


No, indeed! For death, especially for Men, is said ro be a "gift" by Eru. Evil (if taken as its most reknown representative - Melkor  )had no part in it. But evil could spoil the "joy" of receiving the greatest gift! Right? And there we come again to the ever present "red" line running through all the stories - sadness. So much grief and sadness in the stories in the Silm and its periphery. 
You're so right, Roilya!


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## Lantarion (Dec 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel_
> No, indeed! For death, especially for Men, is said ro be a "gift" by Eru. Evil (if taken as its most reknown representative - Melkor )had no part in it. But evil could spoil the "joy" of receiving the greatest gift! Right?


My reasoning precisely. In fact, that's the way I view death; not as a negative thing in itself.

Hehe and Roilya excellent epiphany, you're on the right track.


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## Roilya (Dec 6, 2003)

I do not see death as a bad thing either, and we should be thankful we are not bound to the fate of the world. I'm not trying to sound like a tree hugger, but look at the way we treat our world today. Look at the way we destroy nature, gathering the resources we "need". before long nature wont be there to provide for us like its done for so long. Then what will we do? so enjoy nature now while we still have it. srry to go all save the whales on ya, but thats what i think. i told u that for a reason(kinda) because there is an evil in our world today, as in the Sil., and it is slowly eating away all the beautiful things in the world. Whether that evil is technology, or something in our heads that says we need paper, cars, trains, boats etc. i do not know.


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