# The Decline of TTF (and Starbucks)



## Barliman Butterbur

Alas — TTF is fast becoming another Moria... 

Barley


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

It seems to be true.

Why is that anyways? I'm new around here, but from what I've heard this used to be a pretty 'popular' place to be.


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

This was a pretty popular place. My cousin got me here mid 2005 I think it was and this place was going great still.

Such a waste for it to die.


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## Urambo Tauro

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I've noticed this, too.
I keep checking up on things here, anyway. It never takes very long to get caught up with the new posts.

Lately, I've been doing some posting at the "re-forged" TORn site. The message boards have been upgraded to a new format that's much easier to use than the old ones. As of now, there are over 1200 members, and there's always a good discussion to jump into.

Still, there are a lot of good threads right here, and I'm always keeping an eye out for fresh input.
I'm not leaving!


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well I do have to admit I have been spending more time at the Chronicles Science Fiction Fantasy forum. It is quite active and working its way to 1,000,000 posts within the next couple of months. I have to say there are a couple of members from here on there as well such as Thorondor and Narya.


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## YayGollum

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I'd agree with the sniffs of pity but not the invention of a hole to sniff in. Ah, now, a mound to direct many towards would be nice! From what I can tell, many already have their own private little holes. Why not fill them all with some superly great matter from that hypothetical mound, yo? And if you are more of a fan of holes than of filled ones (who knows with what coolness?), just reverse a few of what I already mentioned. It seems to me to be, though, that that Webmaster person has taken stock of inactivity. I had assumed that he was waiting a suitable amount of time for a few of the old moderating types to arrive or for a few more to volunteer, after which we shall come up with amazing mounds of goodness (or amazing excavating tools for nice as well as comfy holes, I guess)!


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think I volunteered and if I didn't I will. Apart from that the rest of your post Yay, went right over me and I didn't take in a bit of it.


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Majimaune said:


> I think I volunteered and if I didn't I will. Apart from that the rest of your post Yay, went right over me and I didn't take in a bit of it.



I must admit that YG's post sailed right over _my_ head, and I've been deciphering his unique style for a number of years.

TTF was one of the great websites, and the height of my day. We reached critical mass when the PJ movies came out, and when religion and politics were allowed to be discussed. The place was in constant ferment and attracted some of the finest minds around. But when the movie madness finally dissipated and the lock was put on discussion of r&p, that let the air out of the tires and it's been that way ever since: a Rolls Royce with four flat tires just sitting in a parking lot; a cruise ship stranded in the desert...

Barley


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> a Rolls Royce with four flat tires just sitting in a parking lot



But it still looks pretty!


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## Ermundo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well, everyone by now has noticed this decline in TTF activity. But truth be told, I'm not so sure this downhill turn is final and complete. As to why, well, books about the Middle-Earth mythos have not stopped being published forever. We still got the "Children of Hurin" after a long hiatus on Christopher Tolkien's part. And if this continuous publishing of new material keeps up, than there TTF will always be a great place to discuss J.R.R Tolkien's materials. 

My second reason for my optimistic view is that we, most likely, have not seen the last of the adaptions for Tolkien's books. I think that PJ's movies were the cream of the cream, and so do many, Many other people. The success of the movies brought many people into our little corner of the shire, and those were indeed the golden days of TTF, as you put it Barley. But who's to say that Peter Jackson's movies are to be the final, unstoppable conclusion of the results of people trying to bring Tolkien to us? Knowing the success of the movies, why should there not be another adaption for the LOTR, whether it be a 3d style visual feast or a grand animation epic? And not even LOTR, but other books written by or related to Middle-earth? In fact, last time I checked, the prequel book, "The Hobbit," was in the works, waiting to take the world by storm. Who knows, it might bring in all those fans to our site that will discover Tolkien, just as Peter Jackson's movies did to many other people.

Basically, I believe this phase of decline we are going through is just a cycle. It is my hope that TTF will once again abound in discussion and conversation, and many people from all corners of the earth, will be satisfied, just as so long ago.


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Ermundo said:


> Basically, I believe this phase of decline we are going through is just a cycle. It is my hope that TTF will once again abound in discussion and conversation, and many people from all corners of the earth, will be satisfied, just as so long ago.


I think more then just you hope that. When the Hobbit is eventually done, it will be done eventually for sure, this place will come alive again, at least for a little while.


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Hooray for optimism!!! 
I think you guys are right. All I'm worried about is how long the 'hype' would last...


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

It might last for 6 months, a year, who knows?


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Majimaune said:


> It might last for 6 months, a year, who knows?


I say we brainwash all of the newcomers into staying forever! That will fix the problem for sure!


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Thats what we have been trying to do with you...I mean did I say that?


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think it worked. I even have this forum as my homepage now.
How cool am I...


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Matter of opinion really...

Lets not hijack this thread.


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Good thinking... The elders might get angry.


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## YayGollum

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Argh. What was difficult? A translation:

"I'd agree with the sniffs of pity" = Yes. I be sad, too.

"but not the invention of a hole to sniff in." = I see no use for this thread.

"Ah, now, a mound to direct many towards would be nice!" = A useful thread would be better.

"From what I can tell, many already have their own private little holes." = Many are already feeling sad about the lack of activity, but privately.

"Why not fill them all with some superly great matter from that hypothetical mound, yo?" = Come up with an idea to alleviate sadness.

"And if you are more of a fan of holes than of filled ones (who knows with what coolness?), just reverse a few of what I already mentioned." = Eh. You can disregard that. It was supposed to please those who prefer holes to mounds. 

"It seems to me to be, though, that that Webmaster person has taken stock of inactivity." = How is that difficult to understand? That Webmaster person is still around and has made some little thread that calls moderators and those interested in such activities.

"I had assumed that he was waiting a suitable amount of time for a few of the old moderating types to arrive or for a few more to volunteer, after which we shall come up with amazing mounds of goodness (or amazing excavating tools for nice as well as comfy holes, I guess)!" = Designed to placate. Disregard and come up with useful ideas, sit around and say things like, "Oh, well, then, we are saved?" or glare at me while uttering, "Bah!"


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Thanks for the translation Yay. I understand what you were on about and I see your points.


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

 I see the light! 
Very good points (even though they did take a bit of explaining). I might try and come up with a few threads in the near future but it will be quite a stretch for my imagination to come up with something interesting.
*fingers crossed*


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

My reply to all the posts after my first one: We'll see; time will tell. I'm not by a long shot ready to abandon the place completely, although alas, it hasn't been the very first place I go to on the Internet for a _very_ long while. 

Barley


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## Urambo Tauro

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

"Abandoning the place completely" is something I'd be "loth to consider", as Tolkien might put it.

The title of this thread is a bold one in my opinion, and when I saw who the thread starter was (and that it was in the _news_ section, of all places ), I was afraid to click on it for fear of what I might find inside.

I don't post _much_; I've had less than 300 posts in three years, and my profile says that it's about 0.22 posts per day. The posts that I do make, however, I put a lot of thought into, and my average post will take about twenty minutes to compose! (Matter of fact, how about clicking on my profile, and cheking out those interesting threads? ) Yes, I guess I've invested a lot into this place.

_Loth_ is exactly what I would be to see TTF go.


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## Ermundo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Nowadays, it seems to me that the only thing to talk about around this place (ttf), is how there IS nothing to talk about.


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## Mike

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well, I'm still here. I don't post as much as I used to, but I find that with fewer people on this site, the replies I get tend to be much more intelligent. It's also nice not to have a thread "run away", so to speak, when I can't be around because I'm busy with my studies.

It ain't what it used to be, but I've come to like a quieter TTF.


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

You mustn't be talking about me then Mike. Replies more intelligent isn't me.


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Ermundo said:


> Nowadays, it seems to me that the only thing to talk about around this place (ttf), is how there IS nothing to talk about.



LOL! 

Barley


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> LOL!
> 
> Barley


It is kinda true though Barley.


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

With that idea of brainwashing new members, it partially works. After all myself, Majimaune, Ermundo and now you Mr. Istari (hello btw) seem to be the most recent but also dedicated members. I'm not saying we are the most addicted, or that we are the most recent, but over the past few years few others have joined and stayed active. Sure they'll pop in from time but don't make regular posts. The problem is that even now my time is becoming less and I haven't been on in over a month.

That's not to say we are the only 4 who are junior members and still post. There are a few others I know I've forgotten.

But, the question is as always, what do we do to entice more people back here?


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Thanks for the welcome. 

As for what to do:
I think we need to start up some new topics (controversial maybe?). The problem with that though is that everything has been talked about! I vote Tolkien comes back to life and writes another book or twelve.


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Noldor_returned said:


> With that idea of brainwashing new members, it partially works. After all myself, Majimaune, Ermundo and now you Mr. Istari (hello btw) seem to be the most recent but also dedicated members. I'm not saying we are the most addicted, or that we are the most recent, but over the past few years few others have joined and stayed active. Sure they'll pop in from time but don't make regular posts. The problem is that even now my time is becoming less and I haven't been on in over a month.
> 
> That's not to say we are the only 4 who are junior members and still post. There are a few others I know I've forgotten.


I can't think of any either. Makes me feel bad. Well as you say though, we do post, not that regularly but its still there and are on every now and then. Me probably more then you cause I have a bit more free time.


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## chrysophalax

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

It's been with much regret that I've watched many of my old RPG friends and adversaries alike, fade away into *shudder* reality. A few of them are still here though and every so often, another brilliant writer comes along to re-kindle the old fires of imagination. I miss the annual awards ceremonies we used to hold and the rest of the forum who didn't actively participate in our fun usually enjoyed the speeches the esteemed winners would give, along with the red carpet fanfare!

I certainly hope that TTF enjoys a resurgence in active members, in _all_ aspects of the forum. The reason why we're all here isn't going away. JRRT's own works and subsequent books and movies inspired by him are the stuff of legend, not just the fluff of passing fashion. In my mind, Middle Earth and the denizans thereof are on par with Arthurian legend, tales that will last for many generations to come.

I'm glad to be a part of a forum that can provide interest, insight and even a little provocation. His works have inspired many, like myself, to dare to discover and refine hidden talents within oneself. Truth be told, I had to be dragged here, kicking and screaming...and what happened? I've made many dear friends, authored and co-authored one or two RPG's that were avidly followed several years ago, and yes...became addicted. I can only hope that there are still many others out there, as yet unknowing, that will join us!

Here's one Dragon that ain't going without a fight!


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## Rosalee LuAnn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Gosh, people. Make me feel guilty, why doncha? 

I'm not sure whether anyone here remembers me... It's ME! ROSIE! I only came here because MERPG was moved here, then that died, and so did my activity... then I decided to poke my head in here today and the first thread I see is one on the Decline of TTF. Which made me feel sad. And Guilty. (I'M SOOOORRRY!)


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Hi Rosie! 
We're not blaming you for the lack of activity on TTF. It's certainly not a one person job. 
And while it may be sad that TTF is at a slow spot as far as member activity goes, I'm sure it will come to an end eventually and TTF will be busy with lots of little creative minds. (and posts!!!)


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Majimaune said:


> It is kinda true though Barley.



I think a good number of posts are being made simply to make them, in an effort to keep things up and running. TTF's on artificial life support...

Barley


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

 You're right Barley!

(this is a good example of one)


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Seeing as this place is apparently on life support, well there seems to be a lot of people posting in this thread at least.


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Then perhaps we should discuss how to recapture people and get more posts.

I have one idea for a thread, although it would be in the Green Dragon. It would be questions you want answered. Basically if someone has a question they want to know for instance how many members in Foo Fighters (4 btw) they could post and then someone replies with their answer. So basically it's in case someone doesn't have much time, but they're on the TTF, and they want to know a random piece of trivia or something like that and they can't go look it up. Does that make sense? Thoughts?

Also, Chrysophalax got me thinking. This place needs an RPG that is the idea of several rather than one or two with others joining in. It would be like playbuilding, and for those of you who don't take Drama or know what it is, playbuilding is developing a story. It is done by building on other people's ideas, and gradually we have something to work upon.

Please people, this is an opportunity for us to get creative and have new things brought in. For the better of course hehehe


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Wow twice in two days NR, with School Certificate next week. I'm amazed.

Playbuilding is fun and would be good here. Pity Sere and Elfy haven't been here for a while cause we had a decent RPG going on.

We also need a music thread. Will start one now.


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Yeah I was thinking about that a while ago and then forgot it lol.

And yes but hey, it's on Monday. My English teacher asked me if I was ready for Monday, and I said what's Monday? It's only the most important exam of the year


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Exactly. I don't mind the English too much, probably going to get my best marks in that. Well the creative writing part anyway.


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## Gandalf White

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> I think a good number of posts are being made simply to make them, in an effort to keep things up and running. TTF's on artificial life support...
> 
> Barley



I finally agree with you 100% Barley...surely that's a sign of the apocalypse?


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Did you mean the A-rock-alypse? *slaps knee*

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

So has anybody had any brainwaves?

Btw are we allowed to have debates on ethical issues such as organ doners? And by debates I don't actually mean debates I mean discussions lol


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

NR if you hadn't had made that joke then I would have.

No brainwaves for me cause I'm brain-dead from doing practice tests.


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## Ermundo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

You know, with the decline of TTF, I say it's high time to bring back the past, in the form of Political and Religious discussion. It's likely, activity at this place would boost at least a little with the introduction of these topics. I'm sure it would also be easier to moderate these two topics, compared with the past. With less people on TTF, and the infrequent posts, it is easier to moderate nowadays than in the Golden age of TTF. But hey, this is just one man's opinion, and I might not represent the interests of TTF.


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Gandalf White said:


> I finally agree with you 100% Barley...surely that's a sign of the apocalypse?



All things come to those who wait... 

@ Ermundo: A reinstatement of r&p? Not a snowball's chance in hell...

Barley


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think you have a good point Ermundo. It would be easier to keep down to a respectable level.


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## Gandalf White

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Good god, I'm agreeing with Barley again. Oh well...

Even if politics/religion were brought back (which will never happen) I don't think it would have any impact on this site's traffic. Basically it would only serve as an extra board for pretty much random posts.


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## Ermundo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

At the very least, I believe there would be more posts on this forum. But I appreciate the feedback anyway.


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Gandalf White said:


> Good god, I'm agreeing with Barley again.



You're older and wiser now.  

Barley


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## Halasían

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I don't think TTF is declining, there is just less traffic here than in the movie days when Tolkien was central to the pop culture. So if you relate the amount of traffic or 'hits' the board gets to the board's success, then I guess to you its "declining". i myself like the place where Tolkien remains the central focus, and the fact the P & R debate carp is gone.


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## Thorin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I agree with Barliman. The true height and excitement of this forum were between the years 2001-2003 when the movies came out and opinions were high.

I confess that the last 3 years hasn't seen much of me. I guess I'm stuck in the old days when things seemed fresh and new and threads hadn't been beaten to death. I kind of feel like how the Elves felt as the Third Age was waning and the Fourth Age came in. There just didn't seem to be a place anymore. The times have changed. Perhaps other Eldar like Greymantle, Ciryaher, Ancalagon, Mrs.Maggot, Beorn, and ReadWryt feel the same way.

How to restore it?

Perhaps the admins and mods personally contacting those Eldar who joined before 2004 and don't post much, to invite them back in and give them a forum to ease themselves back in. Perhaps even an encouragement to take some time to re-read some Tolkien and come back with fresh ideas or even to start the same topics anew.

I wish I had time to find and read my Tolkien books, but they are all packed away in storage. Hence, I am a bit rusty on my history of Middle-Earth and don't really feel like there is much to contribute at the time.

Life gets in the way. I guess that is the bottom line for most people.


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## Arvedui

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

As a representative of those who used to be more or less living on this forum, I can at least explain my cause of absence: Real-life commitments!

As dull as it may sound, my life took on a couple of new and interesting turns this spring. Unfortunately it left me with little or no time to devote to the reading and discussing of the works of master Tolkien. Even T_he Children of Húrin_ remain unread on the shelf

Hopefully, but not certainly, life will again turn in directions that will allow me to spend more time here on this greatest of all sites on the Internet: The Tolkien Forum.


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## Ermundo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Your cause of absence represents me as well, Arvedui, and perhaps much of TTF.


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

What's especially nice is to hear not only from the teenagers here, but from the "over 30" crowd as well!

Barley


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Halasían said:


> I don't think TTF is declining, there is just less traffic here than in the movie days when Tolkien was central to the pop culture. So if you relate the amount of traffic or 'hits' the board gets to the board's success, then I guess to you its "declining". i myself like the place where Tolkien remains the central focus, and the fact the P & R debate carp is gone.



It wasn't just the movie days. This place was in full ferment even before that, and there was a full complement of "grown-ups" that were accounting for much of the depth and intelligence. Is it the Second Law of Thermodynamics (correct me if I'm wrong)? "All things run down."

Barley


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## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well that's kind of a depressing thought.


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Mr. Istari said:


> Well that's kind of a depressing thought.



Sorry about that. We're in the Latter Days, m'friend — The Apocalypse! In the Old Testament, the Book of Micah says, "The day shall come when the earth shall burn as an oven" (which is one of the reasons I don't read it). What does that mean? The earth eventually falling into the sun? Or global warming? Global war? Terrorism? All of the above? We're in a second Dark Age brought on by runaway technology and our stupid use of it, coupled with our innate savagery. it's Kali Yuga, _dharma has left the world..._ 

Take a look at the little exchange between Legolas and Gimli in my signature. Do you think I put that in there for _nothing,_ or that it comes first in the signature by coincidence? That was Tolkien _seeing ahead,_ Tolkien at his *most prescient — he knew!* _That's what his entire writings are about!_ 

After his experiences in the trenches, he knew without a doubt that man would eventually destroy himself and possibly take the world with him. We can see it coming with every glance into a newspaper. (There ya go, now you can _really_ get depressed...)

Barley


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## Gandalf White

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Ha, I can finally disagree with Barley again. 

Doom and gloom have been around as long as humans have.

Chipper up, Istari.


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## Arvedui

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> What's especially nice is to hear not only from the teenagers here, but from the "over 30" crowd as well!
> 
> Barley


I guess that I am one of those mentioned, eh?

This has probably been one of the craziest years of my life so far. It all started pretty well with a great experience in one of the troubled parts of the world, and continued with an assignment to a new and challenging post that really ate into my time (and still does...). On top of that, I managed to get elected to the municipality council where I live, while maddening about 45% of the electorate along the way. So now I have about 1.8 jobs. That leaves too little time for me to spend in these halls. Unfortunately (or luckily, depending on where you come from), all these changes and new challenges have killed of the remains of a marriage that has been going downhill for the last few years anyway.
The up-side of that is that I will probably end up with extra time that I can spend here, when all the nitty-gritty details of separation are hammered out and I get settled in a new place. That will still take some time, though. So don't count me in for any prolonged action just yet.


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## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Arvedui said:


> I guess that I am one of those mentioned, eh?
> 
> ...all these changes and new challenges have killed of the remains of a marriage that has been going downhill for the last few years anyway.



You have my sympathy, my friend. My first marriage was a 23-year slow descent into hell. Then came ten years of single catch-up (up/down good/bad), and then re-marriage. With my present bride of going on 14 years, I can safely say that this is the happiest time of my life. So cheer up Arvedui, your good times are coming! 

Barley


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## Arvedui

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> You have my sympathy, my friend. My first marriage was a 23-year slow descent into hell. Then came ten years of single catch-up (up/down good/bad), and then re-marriage. With my present bride of going on 14 years, I can safely say that this is the happiest time of my life. So cheer up Arvedui, your good times are coming!
> 
> Barley


I know they are: I am getting separated

Or to quote an acquaintance of mine after our favourite soccer-team won the Cup recently: "The best day of my life since I got divorced in '84"


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## HobbitGirl

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



YayGollum said:


> I'd agree with the sniffs of pity but not the invention of a hole to sniff in. Ah, now, a mound to direct many towards would be nice! From what I can tell, many already have their own private little holes. Why not fill them all with some superly great matter from that hypothetical mound, yo? And if you are more of a fan of holes than of filled ones (who knows with what coolness?), just reverse a few of what I already mentioned. It seems to me to be, though, that that Webmaster person has taken stock of inactivity. I had assumed that he was waiting a suitable amount of time for a few of the old moderating types to arrive or for a few more to volunteer, after which we shall come up with amazing mounds of goodness (or amazing excavating tools for nice as well as comfy holes, I guess)!


I had already crawled away from this hole sniffing a LONG time ago...and now that the holes I went to crawl in INSTEAD of this hole have punted me out like a deflated football, I've come crawling back to this hole. But I'm not sniffing. Ohhh, noes. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "dead" website, just like there are no "dead" threads. Argh! As long as there are members, there will be posts! *sparkle sparkle* :3


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## Starflower

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

As long as there's life, there's hope as they say, and there is surely still life in TTF. Maybe it's not as busy and heated as say, at the height of the movie discussions, but I wouldn't kill it off yet.


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## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think I might cry if TTF ever actually closed. This place has been a second home to me for going on 5 years now. It's the one place I can always count on to feel welcome, happy, and in the company of similar minds. 

I'd hate to see it crash and burn. I'll be here FOREVER.


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## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> I think I might cry if TTF ever actually closed. This place has been a second home to me for going on 5 years now. It's the one place I can always count on to feel welcome, happy, and in the company of similar minds.
> 
> I'd hate to see it crash and burn. I'll be here FOREVER.


What makes you think we are all as crazy as you? 

It would be a sad thing for it to disappear though. Then I would only have Chrons. (Google _chutnering_ and you should get it if you are interested. Its where all the _other_ crazy people go)


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## HobbitGirl

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

If this place closed, I think a piece of my childhood would be gutted out of my soul...This website consitutued my very first online experience and my very first ROLEPLAYING experience. Roleplaying has helped me improve my writing skills so much I can't even put words to it. (Which is kind of sad if you think about it, seeing as my words are what I'm praising here...) And I certainly wouldn't have any crazier forums to turn to...I'm back here because I've already DITCHED the crazier forums. 

To be perfectly honest, being on a quieter, more sane forum after so long surfing the chaotic tides of the Interweb is rather refreshing. Not to mention I'm totally flabbergasted to see some of the SAME old faces from my middle school days hanging around this place. It feels like I've come home after a long, long journey. :3


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Majimaune said:


> What makes you think we are all as crazy as you?



I don't think. I _know_!





HobbitGirl said:


> If this place closed, I think a piece of my childhood would be gutted out of my soul...This website consitutued my very first online experience and my very first ROLEPLAYING experience. Roleplaying has helped me improve my writing skills so much I can't even put words to it. (Which is kind of sad if you think about it, seeing as my words are what I'm praising here...) And I certainly wouldn't have any crazier forums to turn to...I'm back here because I've already DITCHED the crazier forums.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, being on a quieter, more sane forum after so long surfing the chaotic tides of the Interweb is rather refreshing. Not to mention I'm totally flabbergasted to see some of the SAME old faces from my middle school days hanging around this place. It feels like I've come home after a long, long journey. :3



I agree on all points. Improvement in writing skills...same ol' faces...nicer without the loud and crazy movie freaks...first RP experience...actually this was the very first forum I ever registered on...and I've joined and ditched half a dozen since them and keep coming back here.


----------



## HobbitGirl

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> I agree on all points. Improvement in writing skills...same ol' faces...nicer without the loud and crazy movie freaks...first RP experience...actually this was the very first forum I ever registered on...and I've joined and ditched half a dozen since them and keep coming back here.


This was the first forum I ever registered on, too. I have Lillyaundra to blame/thank for my joining. That was back in middle school. And she's MARRIED now. Can you imagine how old I feel? OLD!! T_T

I never really minded the wild and crazy movie freaks. They spiced things up more often than not.  And I was a bit of a newb back then myself, so as long as they used proper English, I didn't mind the n00bishness. XD;

But some of the people I've run into...*shakes head* Like on Gaia Online. Holy SPOOT on a stick. N00bishness and internet depravity reaches new heights on that website. Granted, literacy, courtesy, and writing ability also reach new heights. That forum has a population numbering in the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, if not millions. LITERALLY. So most active threads have posts every few MINUTES. That's what active means on Gaia. WAY different from here.  That's why, when on Gaia there's a thread that people say is "dead" because there hasn't been any posting in three weeks, I LAUGH. There are "dead" threads on TTF that I posted in FIVE YEARS AGO that I've gotten replies in after just one post. *nodnodnod*


----------



## Eledhwen

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I've looked at other fora, but I like this one. There will be another rush of enthusiastic visitors when The Hobbit film is released, but so what? 90% of them will vanish with the next epic fantasy release.

The truth is that, on this forum is a wealth of information unparalleled in scope and diversity. There are intelligent debates that are both incisive and respectful; there are essays and stories that would fill a library; and much of the dross (inevitable with the film hype) has been purged. It's not all about what we have to say right this minute; there's an Aladdin's treasure buried in these caves.

The truth is that the Rabbit Room only ever had room for a dozen or so; but a quick read of the signatories on the framed document therein, attesting to the Inklings having drunk the good health of the Landlord, and you notice that "few" does not always equate with "insignificant".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main.jhtml?xml=/travel/2005/12/03/etlewis03.xml


----------



## e.Blackstar

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I check in here only rarely, but I would be sad to see the place go. The thing is, I don't think we've lost our love for Tolkien itself--I know I haven't--but as we go through life different stages hit different people. I'm not gonna lie and say I don't have time to hit the Internets often enough, but stopping in here just isn't a priority anymore. My TTF heyday was from ages 14 to 16, and then suddenly I got busy and stopped reading altogether. I guess that's what "real life" can do to you.

It's the people I would really miss, though. I've made some good friends on here--as good as the Internet can give.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



HobbitGirl said:


> This was the first forum I ever registered on, too. I have Lillyaundra to blame/thank for my joining. That was back in middle school. And she's MARRIED now. Can you imagine how old I feel? OLD!! T_T



Ohh yea...I know what you mean there. When we all joined were in highshool/middleschool with alot of time to kill and now we're graduated, some in collage, some graduated from collage, some married, some had babies, some discovered who they were, we got jobs and lives and so much more. 

I really can't blame/thank anyone for my being here...I found this place on a google search right after FOTR came out...(I sadly admit I hadn't read LOTR prior to the movie hype - got addicted shortly thereafter though)

However there are many people to thank/blame for keeping me here. Blackstar, you're right to say that talking about Tolkien isn't high on the priority list anymore (due to lack of time, not interest), but I've made some very dear friends on here...

I LOVE YOU GUYS!


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> I agree on all points. Improvement in writing skills...same ol' faces...nicer without the loud and crazy movie freaks...first RP experience...actually this was the very first forum I ever registered on...and I've joined and ditched half a dozen since them and keep coming back here.


Same here with the forums and such except I'm still in one and have been for a year and a half. It's a great place. I also have deviantArt. Love that place.



Firawyn said:


> Ohh yea...I know what you mean there. When we all joined were in highshool/middleschool with alot of time to kill and now we're graduated, some in collage, some graduated from collage, some married, some had babies, some discovered who they were, we got jobs and lives and so much more.


I'm still in highschool. I don't have time to kill. Neither does NR. We both have jobs as well.



Firawyn said:


> I LOVE YOU GUYS!


I'm loved 

Oh and I have Adrastea to blame for my coming here. I saw her last night in fact.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

You poor child. Still in highschool. Let's just say I'm glad it's over. My adolescence was something I'd just as soon not relive.


----------



## Mike

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



> Let's just say I'm glad it's over. My adolescence was something I'd just as soon not relive. 02-15-2008 04:13 PM


 
Agreed.

I'm busy with university, but I still come here regularly.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

My best times online here were when there were more people who were, shall we say, "over 39?" I actually was able to improve both my writing and thinking processes and skills when involved in some deep discussion or other about Tolkien or non-Tolkien subject matter. There were some truly fine minds here who've gone long elsewhere, whose names are now largely forgotten by most of the TTFers here, the likes of which methinks will ne'er be returning — not unlike Middle-earth's Slow Defeat, or the fading of Lothlorien...

Barley


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> You poor child. Still in highschool. Let's just say I'm glad it's over. My adolescence was something I'd just as soon not relive.


Oh why not? The great inability to be respected as an adult is awesome


----------



## Sammyboy

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

It is a shame to see the forum decline, though I think I joined when the rot had already set in - I joined I think after the initial hype over the films was dying down, and the political/religious discussions had already been banned.

This is a site which I do check in on in 'spurts' - which normally co-incide with my re-reading of LoTR and The Hobbit, but as I think I've said before I'm often a bit afraid to start threads if I have a question, as it'll be stuff that will have been discussed before due to my current level of 'Tolkien-Lore'.

I have been toying with the idea though of starting a couple of less serious theoretical threads like 'What would Gandalf have on his MP3 player?', asking what you thought Gandalf would listen to (both serious and silly!) if he had an iPod but not sure how they'd go down!

I will continue to drop in here though, I may even pluck up the courage to start a few threads on questions I may have - it could end with someone saying 'this has been discussed before' and a link to it, but I hope it could start up another discussion - re-visiting old ground would be better than no posts at all imho


----------



## Eledhwen

*Re: The Self-Pruning of TTF*

Stop being so maudlin, everyone! Quality, not quantity. The very title of this thread is depressing; 'decline' rarely has positive connotations.

I'm still happily visiting TTF. I read much more than I post now, as so much has already been laid down. I suspect there are others still lurking, though much more secretively. You don't need to log in to read, and if any such are reading this now, it might be helpful if you do log in when you visit, just so them wot counts such things knows you've been.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Self-Pruning of TTF*



Eledhwen said:


> Stop being so maudlin, everyone! Quality, not quantity. The very title of this thread is depressing; 'decline' rarely has positive connotations.
> 
> I'm still happily visiting TTF.



Well, _now_ there's something to get excited about! Two Hobbit films, and the opportunity for endless speculation and argument! That's the first phase. The next will be when we get some hard facts about them; the next when they're released; the next the discussions and free-for-alls when opinions are expressed; and the last the die-down and we're back to maudlin! 

For now, I'm feelin' gooooooooooooooooood! 

Barley


----------



## Eledhwen

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I've started my speculating already.

Still don't know what they are going to fill those 60 years with though; the more I think about it, the more I think they'll have to invent stuff.

The film may be rubbish; but what fun we'll all have saying so!


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Eledhwen said:


> The film may be rubbish; but what fun we'll all have saying so!



LOL!!! 

Barley


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Hear, hear! lol. Oh yes, more PJ bashing to do at last. 

Seriously though, I'm having a blast here, more than ever, despite the lack of major activity.


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think I am becoming a bit more irregular with my visits but still I would love for this place never to die.


----------



## David Pence

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well, I have no plans to take TTF down.

Looking at the logs, a great deal of the traffic here is spent by people reading the threads. I sometimes wonder if TTF isn't more active, is due to the fact that pretty much anything that could be discussed, already has, and that there is little incentive to post the same topic anew. I sometimes wonder if that after nine years, TTF should be given a fresh start. Rebooted if you will.

Might be something to think about.


----------



## David Pence

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

P. S. I moved this thread to Entmoot, since, well, that's where it belongs.


----------



## Starflower

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

ooooh... I like the idea of rebooting TTF. Though there are some exceptional debates and discussions from way back I would hate to see gone... but as a thought, why not.

Might encourage more new posts


----------



## YayGollum

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Hm? Sure, it is superly obvious, but did not everyone used to be annoyed when topics came up twenty-seven thousand times in a row? We'd delete some thread and redirect people to old answers. Is not a slower forum the goal of such activities? Well, no, I suppose that the goal is just to stop making the same topic over as well as over while hoping that people will always have new topics to make. Sounds as if we believe that we won. We have discussed everything that there is to discuss. Check Tolkien knowledge off of the list! Goal complete? 

Either way, I'm sure that I'd still be having fun. I would wonder about where all of the old stuff would go, though. Keep what anyone considers to be the best of the best and delete everything else for forever? Mayhaps create a snazzy new logo? Like, with Gollum on it, mayhaps?  

Also, this reminds me to remind you, yet again, Webmaster person, to mayhaps find those old Hope and Despair R. P. G. threads that you said you'd find a long time ago. Or at least a, "Ah, whoops! It is apparently impossible to retrieve such knowledge!"


----------



## Thorin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well, oh great Eru Pence, if you do decide to wipe the slate clean, make sure you give us fair warning! There are some posts of old on here I'd like to copy somewhere else before they are cast into the Void (like my adapted screen plays of scenes from PJ's movies...MUCH more faithful to the book, yet cinematically compatible...ahem. )


----------



## David Pence

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I would never delete the content of the present version of TTF. That would be a crime. No, the present site could just be moved aside to another domain and a new one put in place.

A few people have already noticed that fresh versions of TTF are already in place here and here in fact.


----------



## Ingwë

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Which one of these is going to be the new one? I see one of them if using phpbb3 and the other SMF and the domains are different. 
I think that if you make a new TTF this old one should be closed after "The Hobit" movie is released. I believe that activity on Tolkien boards is low at the moment.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well, what's to discuss? It must have cost DP a lot of time and effort setting up two more versions of TTF. I seriously doubt if that was just a pointless exercise! So, fellow inmates, expect the present TTF to be mothballed at any time. Forgive me, I don't see how new sites will do better than this one. Pity! Damn shame, sez I... 

Barley


----------



## YayGollum

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Got it. So, you have two new The Tolkien Forum Dot Com type places ready to be used. You are inviting us to employ them? At first, it seemed like you were merely asking if making new places would be a good idea in our opinion. Now, it looks as if you already decided that it is a good idea, and we are invited. Whoops, if I have misinterpreted you. Just make sure to shove this old as well as comfortable website into a well-advertised corner. Same for that old Hope as well as Despair stuff that I'd been asking about for a while.

Hm. Okay, I just attempted to join those new versions of this The Tolkien Forum Dot Com place, and they won't allow it. Mayhaps it is merely myself, but no, I am thinking the places will become open as soon as the ten members who frequent this place write something along the lines of, "Sure, sounds good, yo!" I say, however, "Eh. Whatever you humans decide. I shall obtain entertainment either way, I'm sure."


----------



## Halasían

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

WTF???


Guess I better go save my one RP thread and post it on my own board....


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



dapence said:


> Well, I have no plans to take TTF down.


*big cheer*



dapence said:


> I sometimes wonder if that after nine years, TTF should be given a fresh start. Rebooted if you will.


How bout just giving it a makeover? A new face so to speak?

Out of the two new ones I prefer the SMF one to the other. Just the look, I don't know why but it looks more inviting.


----------



## David Pence

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

It's funny how some people feel they know everything.

Nothing has been predetermined. I've owned those domains for as long as I've owned this one. Those empty versions of TTF have also been sitting there for sometime as well. It's just an idea.


----------



## Starflower

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think it would be a fantastic idea to move to a 'new home' on one of the other servers, and keep this one as sort of a 'mathom-house', where you can come in and read all the old threads, but all the posting and discussion would be done on the other servers...

the more I think about it, the more it appeals


----------



## YayGollum

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Eh. I wouldn't write that it's hilarious that some humans believe that they happen to hold all knowledge. I'd probably write something more along the lines of, "Hm? They truly believe this? They wouldn't have the desire for extra knowledge or a better understanding of their knowledge? To be pitied, then, I would think." Either way, phew that we haven't encountered any humans like that yet. I've merely seen the types who can be a bit hasty, as well as those with the ability to misinterpret. So, anyways, got it. We are sitting as well as waiting for humans to pop into this thread and offer opinions. No drastic changes today (or conclusions to that long-standing request regarding the Hope as well as Despair series).


----------



## Ingwë

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Majimaune said:


> Out of the two new ones I prefer the SMF one to the other. Just the look, I don't know why but it looks more inviting.


vB one is the best  Those two look almost the same to me  A new skin would make them better but I think that will be dealt if WM moves TTF there


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Oh don't move TTF!

I'd forget the address, I'd forget my damn password, I'd have to re-register, I'd be down to 0 posts...*panics*


----------



## David Pence

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

post counts, again.


----------



## Bucky

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

And I just started a new thread - see if you can find it....

What's the difference if nobody posts here anymore?

I guess they're all posting on that other site where everything is "I think the text means this despite what Tolkien wrote" - guess what site I mean - I'll give you one (ring) guess...


----------



## David Pence

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Cryptic messages? Where's my one decoder ring?


----------



## Eledhwen

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> Oh don't move TTF!
> 
> I'd forget the address, I'd forget my damn password, I'd have to re-register, I'd be down to 0 posts...*panics*


I'm not bothered about post counts, but I do have a problem with passwords. I recently changed my online banking 4-figure code, as I felt using my birth date was a tad obvious. (my bank has a cyber obstacle course of security information to type in, so I wasn't too worried - except it would have been my fault if it was cracked). The result was that I lost my online banking on each of the subsequent four attempts I made at logging on, and had to phone the bank each time to get back on.

Could I have your phone number please, Mr Pence?


----------



## Bucky

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

*I recently changed my online banking 4-figure code, as I felt using my birth date was a tad obvious. The result was that I lost my online banking on each of the subsequent four attempts I made at logging on, and had to phone the bank each time to get back on.
*

I always uses codes with the number '69' in them - it simplifies things...... 

Really.


----------



## Ermundo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

The Hobbit will come out in due time. A month, a year, or maybe a decade, I have no clue. I say, before any move is made, let's wait until the prequel comes out, and than see how it affects activity on this forum.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



dapence said:


> post counts, again.



You know it's not about a need to feel important or anything, it's very simply that when I joined some of the people I most looked up to were past the 1000 post mark and I've been TRYING for almost five years to reach 1000, while keeping my posts wholesome, meaningful, and not spam. 

Here's an example: Say for instance that you're working for this guy and you have contributed and contributed and just about the time that you feel like you're really making a difference in the way of things, you're boss hits his head and can't remember a damn thing you ever did. That would suck.

It's not about superiority, it's about recognition. Were I running a forum this big, I'd be keeping post counts as a simple way of saying "Thank you, [username], for your contribution, we wouldn't be here without you!" to my members.

By in anyway shape or form erasing a record of any members posts (I promise, I'm not ranting about post counts for just my own sake), you are telling your members that settling your whim for new sparkles and jazz and updating your forum is more important to you than their contribution. 

I'm not saying I'd leave TTF if you go ahead and kill the post counts, move TTF, make it new and fresh, whatever...I just want you to consider the message that you could be sending.

Simple joys are the spice of life, and I can only speak for myself here, but watching time pass, seeing my fifth anniversary of membership here, and seeing my post count come closer and closer to 1000...that's one of those simple joys for me.


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Fir, you have a good point there. I gave up on the whole trying to get my posts high though and just took them as they came.


----------



## Sidhe

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Never understood the fascination with high post counts, it's quality not quantity anyway. People mentally filter post counts with the likelihood of a person to spam, to be uninformative or to be just annoying anyway. Least that's my experience of forums, usually those who are concerned with it are the worst spammers. Not that I'm saying high post count means you're a spammer, if you've been anywhere long enough you're going to accrue a high post total, just a general observation about those who seem to obsess over it. 

I have had my post count reset on most forums, as revealing the amount of time I wasted seems a tad embarrassing. 

Still I'm looking forward to making 10 posts.


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Sidhe said:


> Still I'm looking forward to making 10 posts.


Ten is a good number. I'm looking towards 700...eventually.


----------



## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I'm looking forward to 50 personally. But looking at the amount of posting I've been doing that may take a while.

It seems to be slower than usual today for some reason. Oh well. I'll live.


----------



## Confusticated

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think activity will pick up again across the forum after the next film begins production. And especially after the movie is released.

I don't know if this has already been suggested or not, but maybe if the post count becomes a big issue again, it can be set up so that each member choses in the User CP if he or she wants to display his post count at all. Of course nothing will make everybody happy, but I don't remember this ever being mentioned as an option. So there it is.


----------



## Mr. Istari

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I don't really think post counts are really a big issue here though. I've been reading through here and it seems like people generally just like to know those kinds of things.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> You know it's not about a need to feel important or anything, it's very simply that when I joined some of the people I most looked up to were past the 1000 post mark and I've been TRYING for almost five years to reach 1000, while keeping my posts wholesome, meaningful, and not spam.



Good post! I agree with all points: not quantity but quality. The posts are valuable according to their content. I think just about all of us do post substantial material, and that makes a post count something well-earned. To makes silly posts just for a high number is a bit pathetic, as well as creating for oneself a reputation as a person not to be taken seriously. So it backfires. Frankly, I think I am owed the 800 posts that were subtracted from my post count in The Great Post Purge held a few years ago. I don't post junk (although there are probably one or two who might disagree with that  ), and try to make what I say count as something worth reading. Post counts also say something about participation and loyalty. So here's to the Post Count, long may it wave!

Barley


----------



## Starflower

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well, to anyone who says that there is no activity on the Forum anymore I say 'Look at this thread!'
We have managed to create a substantial (well, at least I think so) and passionate discussion about a simple subject. 

Long live TTC, I think there's life still in the 'old' forum


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Barley, Posting junk? I would have never thought it was possible...


----------



## Arvedui

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well, if I were orderes to suggest just one thing that would increase activity on TTF again, I would definately suggest another post-count debate. 
Hasn't failed so far.

Just look: it even made me post a comment again!


----------



## Dr. Ransom

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I'm going to try to make an effort to re-involve myself in Tolkien and the forum a bit. To be honest I only read the trilogy all the way through once way back almost ten years ago now, so as details faded more and more it became difficult to keep up with the excellent Tolkien scholars on this forum.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> Good post! I agree with all points: not quantity but quality. The posts are valuable according to their content. I think just about all of us do post substantial material, and that makes a post count something well-earned. To makes silly posts just for a high number is a bit pathetic, as well as creating for oneself a reputation as a person not to be taken seriously. So it backfires. Frankly, I think I am owed the 800 posts that were subtracted from my post count in The Great Post Purge held a few years ago. I don't post junk (although there are probably one or two who might disagree with that  ), and try to make what I say count as something worth reading. Post counts also say something about participation and loyalty. So here's to the Post Count, long may it wave!
> 
> Barley



I think I may have to print this post. Monumental. I say something and the mighty Barley agrees!  Thank you, my friend. 



Dr Ransom said:


> I'm going to try to make an effort to re-involve myself in Tolkien and the forum a bit. To be honest I only read the trilogy all the way through once way back almost ten years ago now, so as details faded more and more it became difficult to keep up with the excellent Tolkien scholars on this forum.



Darling I would strongly suggest a re-read.


----------



## Lhunithiliel

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I just want to say a great and warm HELLO! to all my TTF friends! Especially to those who were gathered in the Guild of Tolkienology.

I miss you so much, boys and girls! 

But I very much hope that every one of you is doing well, and that you are "marching" the roads, and "fighting" the battles of your lives, charged with the spirit of what we used to have in our community.

Wish you all the very, very best! 

Your Lhun


----------



## Dr. Ransom

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> Darling I would strongly suggest a re-read.



Ah yes, every once in awhile I glance at my books longingly, but somehow school books and a desire to experience other great classics I've not ever read (such as a particularly famous Tolstoy volume I just started) keep my good intentions as nothing more.

I did, however, think that _Children of Hurin_ was fantabulous. Right up there with the Silmarillion (well duh), LoTR, and Till we have Faces in awesomeness.


----------



## Mali

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Honestly, I have been gone for a good five years. My old account was obviously deleted, so I rejoined. I have never joined a discussion board that took as long as this one did to activate my account. A whole four days. Honestly, that could have something to do with it. People usually don't like waiting that long--and a long wait is a good sign of a nearly completely deserted discussion board. Anywhoo, I'll be on this board for a while, but probably making only 2 or 3 posts a day.


----------



## Echo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I only just joined today! I hope that the forum isn't in danger of going away any time soon. There are a few other Tolkien fans on my regular book forum, but no discussions. I was excited to have found this place!


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Echo said:


> I only just joined today! I hope that the forum isn't in danger of going away any time soon. There are a few other Tolkien fans on my regular book forum, but no discussions. I was excited to have found this place!



Welcome aboard, Echo! No, it appears that TTF has gained some life and momentum and is reconfiguring itself, hopefully toward a continued bright future. But it looked bad at the time I created this thread. You're safe!

Barley


----------



## Mali

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I remember when I used to get dozens of emails a day on thread updates. Its sort of sad, but at least the current members are hardy fans and not fair-weather friends. quality is better than quantity, I always say.


----------



## Eledhwen

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo!


Echo said:


> I hope that the forum isn't in danger of going away any time soon.


It may morph a little, but I don't think it will go away. Watch for what washes in on the tide of the Hobbit film, when it's released.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Eledhwen said:


> Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo!



Damned clever, Eledhwen; wish I'd thought of it! 

Barley


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> Damned clever, Eledhwen; wish I'd thought of it!
> 
> Barley


Got in before me.

We seem to have had an influx of new members


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I think that with the upcoming 'Hobbit' movie, people are starting to get back into the whole "Tolkien geek-ness". Some who have long loved the books and are returning to see what the movie will bring to TTF, along with those new to Tolkien's works by way of Hobbit movie publicity.

Also - I've heard that school teachers are starting to add Lord of the Rings to their reading lists!


----------



## Echo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Eledhwen said:


> Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo; Welcome, Echo!



Ah, yes. I lived with that joke most of my life. My middle name is Echo. I used to hate it, but now I love it! 

As to teachers adding Tolkien to their reading lists, that would be great! I had to convince my college research writing teacher to allow me to write about Tolkien. We were supposed to focus on an outlaw or cult writer, but he was more interested in writers like William Burroughs, Norman Mailer, and Jack Kerouac. But Tolkien was mentioned in our cult authors reference, and after I wrote my proposal, he read it to the class and said that he was actually excited to read about an author he himself wasn't fond of. It was the whole reason I took the class, and I had so much fun researching and writing my paper!


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Bravo, Echo! The world needs more like you!


----------



## Eledhwen

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Echo said:


> My middle name is Echo. I used to hate it, but now I love it!


I would not have made the joke if I thought it was your real name; In recompense, here's a song about an echo translated, unfortunately, from Italian into ...err ... something else. It's known in English as 'Hark, Hark! The Echo Falling. It was published in 1581. The music's wrong - it should be a canon piece.



Echo said:


> Tolkien was mentioned in our cult authors reference, and after I wrote my proposal, he read it to the class and said that he was actually excited to read about an author he himself wasn't fond of. It was the whole reason I took the class, and I had so much fun researching and writing my paper!


Has he read it yet? I'd love to know the outcome!


----------



## Echo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I wrote it about a year ago for an old class, and he loved it! He gave me a 4.0 for the whole class (an A+) after stating at the beginning that he didn't give out A's. I submitted it to my university as part of a writing portfolio.

If anyone is interested is reading it, you can find it here. I posted it to my blog a while back as part of a week-long celebration of Tolkien.


----------



## Mike

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

A very nice essay! And properly cited in MLA format, too. Though after long enough, MLA and Chicago just become automatic.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to write a university paper on Tolkien...yet. 

I've found that professors who say "I don't give out A's" are lying. They just want you to drop the course if you're not truly commited towards learning about the subject. In my case, that was History 290 Last Term (Historiography). Got an A+ in that class, also wrote the best essay I ever wrote...about Hayden White and the problem of narrative in history. Then again, quite a few people did extremely poorly in that class as well (but, as the prof said, those were the ones not destined to become Historians).

But I digress. 

Just as an aside: there's been quite a bit of activity on the forum lately. Looks like we've been resuccitated.


----------



## Mali

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I had a university professor like that last semester. Of course, myself and five others recieved As for that class. I only read part of your essay echo, but it was very good.

mali


----------



## Dr. Ransom

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I had a philosopher professor rail on a class of graduate and ph.d. students for 30 minutes about the lack of quality in our papers. He said there were only 2 papers up to academic standards, out of a class of 30. 

Then he handed out our papers. I have NEVER been happier for a B in my life. Ever. I thought I was going to die.

Under normal circumstances I would have been disappointed, but ya, I think that's why professors say they don't give out A's. Helps set the tone.


----------



## Echo

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Thanks, everyone! I had a lot of fun with it. I do have a history professor this semester who is literally unable to give out a 100%. The highest grade he's given either me or my boyfriend (we're taking the class together, and he's also a history major) is a 95%. He gives us that when we've done "solid A work...great job!"  I think some teachers simply don't believe in it.

I'm glad the forum seems to be more active!!


----------



## Mike

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Glad to see another History Major on the forum.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I had one teacher like that.

However I had two teachers who took the time to earn my respect, then flatter my good grades, which is a one way guilt trip to not slacking, as to not let them down.


----------



## Mali

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I seem to find that the teachers and classes I like the most are the ones where my teachers expect more from me than average. I am a political science major, and that usually only extends to my upper-level politics classes. The one I am in currently is full of Juniors and Seniors--I am one of three freshmen--and I much more enjoy being the less intelligent of the group because I know I have something to stride for. In most of my other classes this semester, my teachers dote on me because I am the only one participating.


----------



## Snaga

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Just a quick post to say that I'm glad to see some very old friends and some unfamiliar people are still keeping this place alive. The other day I couldn't get on, and was worrying that it had gone for good. I'm very glad to see that's not the case! I spent a lot of time here - but I can't imagine I will ever have that much time to put into TTF for a while. But I still like to visit from time to time.

Hello everyone!


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

"Hello, my name is Snaga, and I am a Tolkienholic."


"Hello Snaga."


----------



## Snaga

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

"The first step is to admit you have a problem..."


"Problem? What problem?? Its NOT a problem..... "


----------



## Curufin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



> Glad to see another History Major on the forum.



Well, here's another...sort of. 

My undergraduate degree is in political science, but I'm working on my MA in Irish history right now...


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Very interesting thread. History was my minor, and I loved it for what it was, and always had great professors. But reading all of these threads, I’m so glad I pursued physics as my profession. It is right or wrong; without bias or prejudice. History has always been a wonderful hobby, and I’m so glad that love wasn’t tarnished by bitter instructors. When it comes to livelihood, I prefer “yes or no”; “right or wrong”. To me, things like history and literature are too precious , and I would never want them to become “work”.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Dr. Ransom said:


> I had a philosopher professor rail on a class of graduate and ph.d. students for 30 minutes about the lack of quality in our papers. He said there were only 2 papers up to academic standards, out of a class of 30.
> 
> Then he handed out our papers. I have NEVER been happier for a B in my life. Ever. I thought I was going to die.
> 
> Under normal circumstances I would have been disappointed, but ya, I think that's why professors say they don't give out A's. Helps set the tone.



I had an old fool — _Otis Cone_ was his name — for my freshman English class back in the 50s who had a "graduated" grading system. Say you got a C on your first assignment. In order to get another C you had to submit a paper worth a B, and so on. He was easier on the girls however, especially if they sat in such a way that he could see up their dresses (yes, girls wore skirts and dresses in those days).

Barley


----------



## Sidhe

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> It wasn't just the movie days. This place was in full ferment even before that, and there was a full complement of "grown-ups" that were accounting for much of the depth and intelligence. Is it the Second Law of Thermodynamics (correct me if I'm wrong)? "All things run down."
> 
> Barley



It is indeed. However the second law of thermodynamics only applies in a closed system. Let's hope this system doesn't become a closed one, lack of outside energy into the system might indeed be fatal.

Well it's a shame, I only just got here.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> He was easier on the girls however, especially if they sat in such a way that he could see up their dresses (yes, girls wore skirts and dresses in those days).
> 
> Barley



That's sad. However, just because girls in highschools today don't usually wear dresses, they are wearing mini skirts and skin tight jeans, so your Mr. Cone would be doing the same thing, if he was still teaching today.


----------



## Alcuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> ...He was easier on the girls however, especially if they sat in such a way that he could see up their dresses (yes, girls wore skirts and dresses in those days).
> 
> Barley


_Ach!_ like this one?









Sidhe said:


> Barliman Butterbur said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't just the movie days. This place was in full ferment even before that, and there was a full complement of "grown-ups" that were accounting for much of the depth and intelligence. Is it the Second Law of Thermodynamics (correct me if I'm wrong)? "All things run down."
> 
> Barley
> 
> 
> 
> It is indeed. However the second law of thermodynamics only applies in a closed system. Let's hope this system doesn't become a closed one, lack of outside energy into the system might indeed be fatal.
> 
> Well it's a shame, I only just got here.
Click to expand...


[SIZE=+2]Entropy.[/SIZE] Entropy. Entro...


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Sidhe, do not worry; the power grows yet again (though unable to take physical form at this time). It has increased its power even since my arrival not long ago. And don’t forget; "*times have changed - and* *entropy isn't what it used to be"* .


PS - Kind of stole that little joke from Treebeard. Believe it or not; he's quite educated when it comes to this subject of _Ent_ropy.


----------



## Eledhwen

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Illuin said:


> PS - Kind of stole that little joke from Treebeard. Believe it or not; he's quite educated when it comes to this subject of _Ent_ropy.


The tendency of Ents to slide from order into disorder? Must be from personal experience 

TTF suffered a 'bull market' for a while because of the films - craziness and disorder. There was bound to be a downturn, as even diehard Tolkienites have had such an opportunity to talk their subjects to death that they darn near succeeded. The brain will not lie idle, however; and as ideas Tolkien rise to the surface, the guy leaning on the bar next to you in the pub just will not do for meaty discussion (unless you happen to be in the Eagle and Child or Lamb and Flag - and I don't recommend the latter these days). Trickling back here they will all be ... yes? I almost wish The Hobbit film wasn't happening; the craziness will return for a while, methinks.


----------



## Dr. Ransom

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Well... part of the decline it is a culture change thanks to the movies and overall popularity. Back in the day if you brought up LoTR it was bound to GET you dates; afterall, you must be cultured and educated to read old stuffy Oxford professors and actually love it.

Now us Tolkienites suffer from a slightly different cultural stereotype... one that will probably take a generation to wear out.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Illuin said:


> ...he's quite educated when it comes to this subject of _Ent_ropy.



Haha! Way cute.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Illuin said:


> Sidhe, do not worry; the power grows yet again (though unable to take physical form at this time). It has increased its power even since my arrival not long ago. And don’t forget; "*times have changed - and* *entropy isn't what it used to be"* .
> 
> 
> PS - Kind of stole that little joke from Treebeard. Believe it or not; he's quite educated when it comes to this subject of _Ent_ropy.



Oh oh, a punster's among us! Beware, people! 

And yes: things will heat up again once the Hobbit movies are released. I must say I'm _much_ more enthusiastic about Del Toro, now that Hellboy II's made such a positive splash!

Barley


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Yes I'm expecting great things from Del Toro. He has everything as a director that Peter Jackson lacked, but he still has all of PJ's work to build off of, and even the most die hard book fans must admit that what PJ did was impressive, at least in the display of Tolkien's word. I went on a LotR marathon last week, re-watched all of the movies with my lover, and he simply could not believe that all of what he was seeing was New Zealand or stage. I made me watch the credits all the way to the end to prove _me_ wrong...and all he did was prove me right...when will men ever learn?


----------



## Sidhe

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Illuin said:


> Sidhe, do not worry; the power grows yet again (though unable to take physical form at this time). It has increased its power even since my arrival not long ago. And don’t forget; "*times have changed - and* *entropy isn't what it used to be"* .
> 
> 
> PS - Kind of stole that little joke from Treebeard. Believe it or not; he's quite educated when it comes to this subject of _Ent_ropy.



Let's hope so. 



Barliman Butterbur said:


> Oh oh, a punster's among us! Beware, people!
> 
> And yes: things will heat up again once the Hobbit movies are released. I must say I'm _much_ more enthusiastic about Del Toro, now that Hellboy II's made such a positive splash!
> 
> Barley




I caught the first Hellboy on TV and have to say I was impressed by the film, it had a good plot, the acting was excellent, and the sense of humour in it was entirely cynical and likeable. If Hellboy II is as good then I don't think we have much to fear with The Hobbit.


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



> by Sidhe
> _I caught the first Hellboy on TV and have to say I was impressed by the film, it had a good plot, the acting was excellent, and the sense of humour in it was entirely cynical and likeable. If Hellboy II is as good then I don't think we have much to fear with The Hobbit._


 

I found the second to be far superior to the first; and after seeing the amazing mythological special effects (big step-up from the first film); I think we are in for a hell of a ride (the only reason I went to see the film was to see if DT has what it takes for The Hobbit ; and as far as the visuals, he certainly does). Technology has increased significantly from eight years ago, so I can’t even imagine what things like The Shire, Smaug, and Gollum are going to look like. My only concern is the screenwriting and acting….but in all honesty I think it will be great. After the scolding Jackson got for his modifications, I don’t believe DT will make the same mistake.


----------



## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Another point is that the Hobbit is much shorter as well, and so it would be easier to make without condensing. That's where a lot of erasures by Jackson occurred: when he had to cut down. But considering the length of the Hobbit, there's not much you would need to cut out...so we should be in for a great movie.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I am constantly amazed how this thread that I started so pessimistically such a long time ago (November '07) has taken on such a life of its own — good! 

And don't forget: If your nose runs and your feet smell — you're upside down! 

Yay for me — it's my 2700th Post! (Took long enough... **grumble mumble**)

Barley


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



> from Barley
> _I am constantly amazed how this thread that I started so pessimistically such a long time ago (November '07) has taken on such a life of its own — good! _
> 
> _And don't forget: If your nose runs and your feet smell — you're upside down! _
> 
> _Yay for me — it's my 2700th Post! (Took long enough... **grumble mumble**)_


 

With that many posts; you should have those creepy moderator abilities. Maybe you can use those and secretly rename the thread “*The Incline of TTF*”


----------



## chrysophalax

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Definitely not the REcline, eh?


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

_



Definitely not the REcline, eh?

Click to expand...

_ 
Ahhh….very witty ; very witty indeed


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

*laughs over the last 7 posts*


Hey Barley, watch your back, I'm catching up to you, Mr. 2700 Posts.

I am curious, who are the highest ranking posters - like top 20 or something. Is there an easy way to see that?




EDIT: Barley, a mod? OMG! Save me!


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Damn I was looking to see if we had it here but we don't. At Chrons, when you view the member list it shows them in post count order. http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/members/list/?order=DESC&sort=posts&pp=30 I believe I'm on the third page...


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



> by Firawyn
> _I am curious, who are the highest ranking posters - like top 20 or something. Is there an easy way to see that?_


 

Well, Jupiter; the largest planet is so massive that if you took all of the other planets; along with all of the moons, comets, asteroids, and everything else in the Solar System combined (other than the Sun), they wouldn’t come close to filling the mass of Jupiter, and they could all fit inside the gas giant with much room to spare. When it comes to the number of posts; the likeness of HLGStrider indeed comes to mind .


----------



## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Indeed...almost all the mods have over 2000 posts. I'm not sure of numbers but Gothmog and Yay are certainly up there as well.

And why not? I wouldn't mind seeing Barley as a mod...at least he frequently drops in.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Because Barley is usually arguing with mods...


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Illuin said:


> With that many posts; you should have those creepy moderator abilities.[/B]”



God's Pants! Me, a moderator? Save us! (Actually I should have some 3500 posts, but they shaved off 800 during The Great Post Count Purge, a kind of virtual high colonic that was performed some time ago... )

@ Firawyn: And I don't dare argue with mods; my presence here rests on the edge of a sword...one false step to the right or the left...

Barley


----------



## HLGStrider

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

You used to be able to view posters by top posting but people used to get up in arms about people "artificially posting to raise their post count" so it got removed.

I was on top then. I'll probably be on top now. I've got almost a seven year head start on a lot of people.


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



> by HLGStrider
> _I was on top then. I'll probably be on top now. I've got almost a seven year head start on a lot of people._


 
Haha - Yes, you have just past the "_one_ _mile"_ marker if posts were equivalent to _feet _.


----------



## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Umm Iluin...some countries don't use feet...so that was lost on us...but yes, I get the gist, elgee does have a lot.

And looking around the other day, I noticed an IM type system. Looks interesting, and doesn't take up so many messages. Quicker too. Nice function to have.


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*




> by Noldor returned
> _Umm Iluin...some countries don't use feet...so that was lost on us...but yes, I get the gist, elgee does have a lot._




Well, funny you should say that, because even though I live in the USA, being involved in the physics world, I rarely use feet myself .


----------



## Tar-Surion

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

For our spring and our summer have gone by, and will not be seen on earth again, save in memory.


----------



## Uminya

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

On a random "point stuff out" note, post count does not (or at least didn't, long ago, I don't think it's changed) affect someone being a moderator.

And for all the "decline" of TTF, _this_ thread certainly has plenty of activity.


----------



## Arvedui

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Ciryaher said:


> And for all the "decline" of TTF, _this_ thread certainly has plenty of activity.


Famous last words?


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Hehe, well I'd rather think of it as Cir just summed up what we'd all been saying for however many posts.  That TTF is _not_ declining.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Ciryaher said:


> ...for all the "decline" of TTF, _this_ thread certainly has plenty of activity.



About which no one is more surprised than myself...but compared to the Old Days, it has never come up to the period before and during "PJ's Reign."

Which reminds me — is anyone still keeping track of the progress of the Hobbit movies?

Barley


----------



## chrysophalax

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Alas, the only link I had re: The Hobbit Movie is no longer active for some reason.


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Barliman Butterbur said:


> Which reminds me — is anyone still keeping track of the progress of the Hobbit movies?
> 
> Barley


 
Is there a reason that we book purists should be caring?


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

More than you wanted to know about the Hobbit movie:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hobbit+movie+news&aq=2&oq=hobbit+movie

Barley


----------



## chrysophalax

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Good grief, I should say! What I'm really dying to know of course is, the cast list. I haunt imdb like a shadow!


----------



## Arvedui

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I see that TheOneRing.net has a whole section devoted to the movie:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/category/hobbit/hobbit-movie/

Don't know if there are any real news there, though.....


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

That site is so cluttered.  I like TTF. I like our very organized admin.


----------



## Illuin

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



> by chrysophalax
> _Good grief, I should say! What I'm really dying to know of course is, the cast list. I haunt imdb like a shadow!_


 
You realize that it will be at least a year or so from now before we know anything. We are still in the year of 2008. It's still a long way off .


----------



## chrysophalax

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

You'd be surprised how quickly things go by when you're dealing with Dragon years!


----------



## Mirelena

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Firawyn said:


> That site is so cluttered.  I like TTF. I like our very organized admin.


I second that! I've investigated a lot of other discussion boards and fansites, but TTF is one of the best ones I have seen. Three cheers for our Admin and moderators! ((any brown-nosing is purely unintentional  ))

As far as the decline of the site, for my part, I'm trying to pull back some of the old members that I still contact. Muahahaha. Beware the return of the infamous duo.... ELMIR!


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

"chrysophalax 
Danish-loving Dragon"

Er...as in pastry, or people — or both?

Barley


----------



## chrysophalax

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Most definitely the former and, if provoked, the latter!


----------



## Elorendil

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Yes, TTF, be afraid. Be very afraid. ElMir has returned!!!


----------



## Prince of Cats

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I still stop by almost daily just haven't been feeling to talkative


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Prince of Cats said:


> I still stop by almost daily just haven't been feeling to talkative


Ah so I'm not the only one with that disease...


----------



## Prince of Cats

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Majimaune said:


> Ah so I'm not the only one with that disease...



Yeah, I have a couple disorders. Most prevalent of course being write-a-paragraph-close-before-posting disorder, interested-but-have-nothing-to-A-D-D, and dude-why-aren't-you-working-on-your-senior-thesis-lexia


----------



## Firawyn

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Yeah I have a disorder called OCD for TTF.


----------



## Aulë

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Hehehe - I was just having a bit of a browse through the forum archives, and I came across the 2003 Interguild Debate Tournament. It certainly brought back a few memories (both good and bad)! I'm amazed that we managed to complete a competition of that magnitude to be perfectly honest. With the whole Tolkienologist/Periaur rift, and Eriol's vendetta against me...well, it was a nightmare at the time, but looking back it's actually kind of funny.  And let's not forget the excellent debating by the likes of Nom, Gothmog, Snaga, and baragund!


----------



## Aisteru

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

I'm really disappointed that after I created my profile in 2002, I took a five or six year hiatus. It sounds like I missed the glory days of TTF. But, it seems to me like there is a steady flow on incoming members. So, with luck, perhaps we'll see those days restored.


----------



## Lhunithiliel

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Aulë said:


> Hehehe - I was just having a bit of a browse through the forum archives, and I came across the 2003 Interguild Debate Tournament. It certainly brought back a few memories (both good and bad)! I'm amazed that we managed to complete a competition of that magnitude to be perfectly honest. With the whole Tolkienologist/Periaur rift, and Eriol's vendetta against me...well, it was a nightmare at the time, but looking back it's actually kind of funny.  And let's not forget the excellent debating by the likes of Nom, Gothmog, Snaga, and baragund!



 Selective memory, I see..?
Pity! One of the reasons _I_ left TTF ...
Never mind this voice from the depths of the passed years... It's just that at times memories "invade" my mind (not being selective! ) and I remember this place like it used to be and .... well, all I can say - those were beautiful times! 
Gone and never to return....

Well, since I'm here, if anyone of my TTF friends passes by, 'wish to tell them a warm "hi!'


----------



## Aulë

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Hmmm - and some things never change...


----------



## Úlairi

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Aulë said:


> Hmmm - and some things never change...


 
And unfortunately some things do...

It's such a devastating shame that whilst this once magnificent website has declined to a point where there are three posts per day; there are still vibrant and active communities such as The One Ring (I'm under the username _Úlairi_) and The Lord of the Rings Fanatics Plaza (under the *unactivated* username of _Morroqueni_). I'm desperately clinging to this website in the somewhat vain hope of its revitalisation but I'm finding less and less reasons to return.

In the words of the great author himself:



> _The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring - The Council of Elrond_
> 
> *Glóin sighed. 'Moria! Moria! Wonder of the Northern world! Too deep we delved there, and woke the nameless fear. Long have its vast mansions lain empty since the children of Durin fled. But now we spoke of it again with longing, and yet with dread...'*


 
The _nameless fear _needs to be crushed here so that TTF may once again be a _Wonder of the Internet_..._ _

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Aulë

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Fear not, Úlairi. I expect that, like Moria, this wonderful forum will flourish once more in the future. More specifically, there should be an influx of new members (and hopefully some of the old) when The Hobbit movie nears completion. But the question remains...who will be our Durin VII?


----------



## Úlairi

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Aulë said:


> Fear not, Úlairi. I expect that, like Moria, this wonderful forum will flourish once more in the future. More specifically, there should be an influx of new members (and hopefully some of the old) when The Hobbit movie nears completion. But the question remains...who will be our Durin VII?


 
Now that's a good question Aulë...

I always in a way wanted the return of Harad as I never really got to debate him - he was slightly before my time here on TTF. I don't imagine he will ever be back. I also desire greatly the return of Grond and Ancalagon. In fact, I'm going to start a thread on it. Hope you don't mind my usage of your _Durin VII reference_ - very clever Aulë. 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

With the economy the way it is, it's even effected Bree: The Pony has fallen on hard times. I'm thinking of selling out to IHOP or Denny's...possibly the Tam O'Shanter or the Five Crowns in Southern California, at least they'd keep a "pub" theme going...

Barley


----------



## Aisteru

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Oh please Barley, at least don't sell out to Denny's. They're just giving away meals at this point, quite literally. I think the Pony will live to see it's days of glory restored yet.


----------



## Úlairi

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

They could always tear it down and build another Maccas there!

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi*


----------



## Aulë

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

Or a Starbucks. When I visited the USA last year I was amazed at the amount of Starbucks stores. And strangely enough, Duane Reade Pharmacies too...


----------



## Úlairi

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Aulë said:


> Or a Starbucks. When I visited the USA last year I was amazed at the amount of Starbucks stores. And strangely enough, Duane Reade Pharmacies too...


 
Ha! You know they've closed most of them down over here in Aus Aulë? Wonder if that's the same case for Perth?

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Aulë

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

There has never been a Starbucks in Perth. Ever. It is one of life's mysteries.


----------



## Aisteru

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

A little while ago, as I was leaving the Art Institute in Chicago, I was standing next to a few girls waiting for the light to change so we could cross the street. It was all I could do to keep from laughing at them when one of them suddenly cried, "Oh look! A Starbucks!" Her accent was no different than mine, so it can be assumed that she grew up around Chicago. But then that makes her exclamation and surprise even more strange. Whatever the case, it was very funny. She should have just looked down the block where yet another Starbucks was situated conveniently on the corner.


----------



## Úlairi

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Aulë said:


> There has never been a Starbucks in Perth. Ever. It is one of life's mysteries.


 
Adelaide had one (or two ) but it got shut down... HA! Adelaide sucks... @@@!!!

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Mike

*Re: The Decline of TTF*

My God! There are two in Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada, snowy white north that it is...and there isn't one in Adelaide?


----------



## Úlairi

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Mike said:


> My God! There are two in Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada, snowy white northt hat it is...and there isn't one in Adelaide?


 
No, crazy, huh? 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Aisteru

There are 43 in Chicago....


----------



## Noldor_returned

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Úlairi said:


> Adelaide had one (or two ) but it got shut down... HA! Adelaide sucks... ASS!!!
> 
> *Cheers,*
> 
> *Úlairi.*


 

Here here. The murder capital of the world. Sydney still has one I think  but why go to Starbucks when there are a bazillion other coffee shops? I much prefer Gloria Jeans anyway. Actually I prefer it when I make it myself because I've had some training from a barrista. Gloria Jeans employees haven't usually and so I make it better than them. They are so n00b.


----------



## Úlairi

*Re: The Decline of TTF*



Noldor_returned said:


> Here here. The murder capital of the world. Sydney still has one I think  but why go to Starbucks when there are a bazillion other coffee shops? I much prefer Gloria Jeans anyway. Actually I prefer it when I make it myself because I've had some training from a barrista. Gloria Jeans employees haven't usually and so I make it better than them. They are so n00b.


 
Yeah I think there's still one in Elizabeth Street in Sydney. There was also one in Queenstown, New Zealand when I went there in 2005. I hate Gloria Jeans because it's owned by Hillsong. Just one of my (many) personal stands against the system.  But the coffee ain't too bad. 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Noldor_returned

Wait what?!!!1 If I'd known Hillsong owned GJ's I wouldn't go there either! And yeah and there's one in western sydney too I think, because one of my friends worked there and im assuming they still do because it was only a few months when I last talked to them.

But as far as I know, the Starbucks in Sydney is right next to Hyde Park. If I go there in the next week or so (which is highly likely) I'll let you know


----------



## Aisteru

I know the current topic is Starbucks, but I would just like to say something with regards to the state of TTF. I've noticed a sudden increase in the amount of posting going on, and I think it has something to do with the nature of the threads. Hard facts and arguements are good and certainly have there place, especially with the type of people that Tolkien enthusiasts are, but I like all of these opinion based threads such as "First Impressions of the Elves" and "Illustrations & Middle Earth." These might not be exact names, but you get the point. Anyway, I'm glad TTF has taken a turn for the better. Keep up the good posting!


----------



## Noldor_returned

In sydney but two days ago, and there was at least two Starbucks. One in Darling Harbour, the other on George Street, and I'm pretty sure there's another over near Hyde Park.


----------



## Úlairi

Yah, there is one in Hyde Park. That's the one I went to... Gloria Jeans sucks... !!!

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Lady_of_Gondor

Yay! Aisteru, you mentioned my threads as being post-provoking (own horn tooting here!!!)

On the subject of Starbucks, I am off to Paris tomorrow for some Museum time, and one of the things on the itinerary is Starbucks since it has been two years in this wonderful country, and every once in a while I just need some American pleasures. Starbucks isn't exactly American anymore, but given the number of perfectly wonderful French cafés, that's about as American as it gets over here.

Should I feel ashamed? Maybe. Do I? Not really. I have learned to speak the language, eat snails and enjoy them, and not wear tennis shoes in public. I think I deserve a mocha latte!

Oh yeah, and also along with the Anglophile theme of the day, I'm hoping I will make it to Shakespeare and Company bookstore on the left bank. I'll report back on any special Tolkien finds. I am looking for a copy of "Letters".


----------



## Úlairi

Lady_of_Gondor said:


> Yay! Aisteru, you mentioned my threads as being post-provoking (own horn tooting here!!!)
> 
> On the subject of Starbucks, I am off to Paris tomorrow for some Museum time, and one of the things on the itinerary is Starbucks since it has been two years in this wonderful country, and every once in a while I just need some American pleasures. Starbucks isn't exactly American anymore, but given the number of perfectly wonderful French cafés, that's about as American as it gets over here.
> 
> Should I feel ashamed? Maybe. Do I? Not really. I have learned to speak the language, eat snails and enjoy them, and not wear tennis shoes in public. I think I deserve a mocha latte!
> 
> Oh yeah, and also along with the Anglophile theme of the day, I'm hoping I will make it to Shakespeare and Company bookstore on the left bank. I'll report back on any special Tolkien finds. I am looking for a copy of "Letters".


 
I can't imagine _Letters_ would be too difficult to find. You lucky thing! Have fun over there L_o_G!!! Enough for the both of us. 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## HLGStrider

You'd be surprised about Letters. I'm sure you can find them on Amazon somewhere, but I tend to enter pretty much every bookstore I pass and always check out the section of Tolkien books just to make sure they are in order . . . I can't speak for other countries, but I have never ever seen a copy of letters just on the shelf in an American bookstore, sure they can order it for you, but that sort of takes the fun of discovery out of it. 

One possible exception might be Powell's Books, but even though I've been in there a lot I tend to get lost and distracted. . . http://www.powells.com/


----------



## Lady_of_Gondor

Okay...So looking for Letters (as HLGStrider said) was not as easy as might be thought. I was trying to avoid paying shipping and handling, but I might have to wait until I get home this summer. 

I did go to Shakespeare and Company, which is just about the most well-known English bookstore in France, and I asked the salesperson to look it up for me. And, get this, she spelled Tolkien wrong (T-O-L-K-I-N)! I said, "Well, you know there is an 'E' in it. And then she put the 'E' after the 'L'. When she finally got it right, there was no copy of it.

So then, on my way to Pompidou, I found another English bookshop on the Rue du Rivoli, so I went in there, and came out with a new copy of RotK with Alan Lee's illustrations in it. I wanted to buy the whole set and The Hobbit in this edition, but I am thinking one book at a time because it was kind of expensive. Why start with RotK? Simple, I am in the middle of a reread, and I got FotR and tTT from the Library. They didn't have RotK, and that upset me because I like to have the appendices handy. Well, now I do. And hopefully I will get at least the other two before I go home. They are the Harper Collins editions (I got the Harper Collins of The Children of Hùrin as well), which are not available in the U.S., so I have to make sure I have the full set before leaving Europe for good. Or just buy it from Amazon later.

Yikes, that turned out to be the long version! Anyway, Starbucks was the same as usual, and I'm feeling kind of guilty for not reading more in French. But I am reading some horror stuff for a class I've been sitting in on in French, so I won't ruin my Tolkien experience by reading LeDoux's translation (he changed all the names btw - Rivendell becomes Fonconde!!!). I read the Sil last year in French, which was no easy task!

On that note...we can get back on subject now, lol.


----------



## Aulë

One of my lasting memories from when I visited Paris last year was buying Starbucks on Boulevard Saint-Germain (which is a special occasion for me...no Starbucks in Perth) then walking down to Jardin du Luxembourg and lying in the sun whilst I drank my mocha frappuccino. Ahhh yes - good times.


----------



## Noldor_returned

You drink mochas? I always thought mochas were a little confused...kind of like Elizabeth and Joan of Arc. That said, they are a wonderful blend of coffee and chocolate...hate making them for other people though.

I'm more of a flat white kind of guy...yes boring but still, it's my preference.


----------



## HLGStrider

I've actually worked at a Starbucks (though it was inside a Barnes and Noble, so that's what was on the paychecks . . .coffee and books, best of both worlds), so I have a little bit of respect for the franchise. I doubt they are going to disappear any time soon. 

I like an iced coffee with a lot of some sort of flavoring and cream personally.


----------



## Noldor_returned

I doubt they will ever disappear completely. Somewhere at least one will stay open...unless heaven forbid a takeover occurs.

But much the same as this here TTF. Something will always be happening, even if it isn't as much as in the past.


----------



## Lady_of_Gondor

My roommate (from Cambridge) tells me they open a new Starbucks every day in England (I think he might be exaggerating!). While that isn't great for English coffee shops, it is a hopeful sign for Starbucks and TTF if we continue on our analogy!


----------



## Walter

Lady_of_Gondor said:


> My roommate (from Cambridge) tells me they open a new Starbucks every day in England (I think he might be exaggerating!). While that isn't great for English coffee shops, it is a hopeful sign for Starbucks and TTF if we continue on our analogy!


At the moment it's rather closing than opening. And if their latest - desperate - move - instant coffee - will prevent them from desaster ... I doubt it...

But sure there was something good to it. The third wave of "Specialty Coffee" grew in the wake of *$ & Co, all small coffee shops in the close vicinity of their stores, offering better coffee than they did - which wasn't all that hard to achieve - drawing customers from them. It appears their concept "Quality not Quantity" paid off, Starbucks' vice versa evidently didn't, in the long run...


----------



## Noldor_returned

Maybe what it takes is just a genuine coffee? Start from the basics and build up? If everyone who worked in a coffee shop had the barista training surely that would improve the overall quality? I've had some and hopefully I will get to do the actual thing, because working with coffee you just can't afford to get it wrong. There are so many alternatives, every shop that sells it has to get their customers to keep coming back.


----------



## Walter

Noldor_returned said:


> Maybe what it takes is just a genuine coffee? Start from the basics and build up? If everyone who worked in a coffee shop had the barista training surely that would improve the overall quality?


Good roasters & coffeeshops do just that. Specialty roasters buy the best (green) coffees they can afford and good coffeeshops buy good & well-roasted coffees and hire only skilled baristas and/or train their staff thoroughly....


----------



## Elbereth

I find it hilarious that this thread has suddenly turned into a coffee thread. 

LOL...I wonder why there isn't a thread that turned into a alcohol drinking thread....espeically considering that many of the older members of this website are probably now all old enough to consume it. Just a random thought.


----------



## Noldor_returned

And some of the younger ones too...in just 4 months Majimaune is legal, and a month after that I am.

But we could always just talk about Irish coffee or Jamaican...


----------



## Úlairi

Elbereth said:


> I find it hilarious that this thread has suddenly turned into a coffee thread.
> 
> LOL...I wonder why there isn't a thread that turned into a alcohol drinking thread....espeically considering that many of the older members of this website are probably now all old enough to consume it. Just a random thought.


 
There's no use discussing alcohol; as I've given it up. I've been drinking so much over the holidays that its clouding everything; and I just can't stand it anymore!

Anyway, back to coffee: 

Check out what happened to the Starbucks in Sydney today (Saturday, 7th March 2009)!!!

Guess no one will be caffeinating there for a while! Hope the people who went to hospital will be OK.

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Firawyn

Noldor_returned said:


> And some of the younger ones too...in just 4 months Majimaune is legal, and a month after that I am.
> 
> But we could always just talk about Irish coffee or Jamaican...



And I'm legal in six months...not that I haven't been drinking for...some years!


----------



## Elbereth

Úlairi said:


> There's no use discussing alcohol; as I've given it up. I've been drinking so much over the holidays that its clouding everything; and I just can't stand it anymore!
> 
> Anyway, back to coffee:
> 
> Check out what happened to the Starbucks in Sydney today (Saturday, 7th March 2009)!!!
> 
> Guess no one will be caffeinating there for a while! Hope the people who went to hospital will be OK.
> 
> *Cheers,*
> 
> *Úlairi.*



My apologies...I certainly do not want to open up your pandoras box with discussing alcohol. I just figured that now that the forum is older it can handle more mature content. My mistake and apologies again if it is too much.


----------



## Eledhwen

It's strange to read that Noldor_Returned will be legally allowed to drink alcohol at 18, but Firawyn has to wait until 21. I wouldn't miss Starbucks if it vanished off the face of the Earth; but I would miss TTF. I live in a market town (a former Rotten Borough) that doesn't have a Starbucks; but has several pubs, centuries old, where you can plonk yourself down and order a coffee. I like the Cross Keys best, because Brian behind the bar has trouble with the two-stage nature of making coffee and always forgets to finish my order unless I remind him (it's funny watching his mini-panic as he rushes back to the coffee machine - I think he's descended from a Butterbur). He has no problems with pouring ale though.


----------



## Firawyn

Well Maj is in Australia, right? Is NR there as well? 

I'm in the States and that's, very sadly, 21.


----------



## Úlairi

Elbereth said:


> My apologies...I certainly do not want to open up your pandoras box with discussing alcohol. I just figured that now that the forum is older it can handle more mature content. My mistake and apologies again if it is too much.


 
That's OK Elb, don't sweat it... 

Oh, and Fir... Yes, the legal drinking age is 18 here in Australia. Although I wish it were 21; though it may not achieve much. The drinking culture over here is getting much too out of hand. I can't walk down the street sometimes on a Saturday night without someone trying to pick a fight... bloody Adelaide.

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Noldor_returned

Firawyn said:


> Well Maj is in Australia, right? Is NR there as well?
> 
> I'm in the States and that's, very sadly, 21.


 
Sure am, he was the one that brought me to this place. I've known that guy my whole life. We live literally 5mins away from each other



Úlairi said:


> That's OK Elb, don't sweat it...
> 
> Oh, and Fir... Yes, the legal drinking age is 18 here in Australia. Although I wish it were 21; though it may not achieve much. The drinking culture over here is getting much too out of hand. I can't walk down the street sometimes on a Saturday night without someone trying to pick a fight... bloody Adelaide.
> 
> *Cheers,*
> 
> *Úlairi.*


 
Hey, it is the murder capital of Australia after all 

But yes, sometimes 21 might be better, although if teens are going to be drinking anyway why bother?

As for the two-stage coffee making process, that's the best part for me because it allows you to multi-task.

Wow, a male that can multi-task...my boss will be so thrilled she's finally had the feminine impact she always wanted. That is no way a dig at any males, but it is a proven fact we don't have the capacity to multi-task without significant practise.


----------



## Úlairi

Noldor_returned said:


> Sure am, he was the one that brought me to this place. I've known that guy my whole life. We live literally 5mins away from each other
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, it is the murder capital of Australia after all
> 
> But yes, sometimes 21 might be better, although if teens are going to be drinking anyway why bother?
> 
> As for the two-stage coffee making process, that's the best part for me because it allows you to multi-task.
> 
> Wow, a male that can multi-task...my boss will be so thrilled she's finally had the feminine impact she always wanted. That is no way a dig at any males, but it is a proven fact we don't have the capacity to multi-task without significant practise.


 
What do you mean we can't multitask? I can have a stubby of Coopers Dark Ale in one hand and a stubby of Coopers Sparkling Ale in the other and mix my own Black and Tans without the use of a glass! Now that's multitasking! 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Noldor_returned

Yeah, just like I can listen to music and work well on school stuff...

Nah, I mean I can serve three customers while fixing up their donuts and coffee and making sure my coworkers are doing everything right.

But yes, I know what you mean...although I'm a little suprised to hear you drink Coopers. I don't know why...for some reason I find it easier to imagine a Cascade. I don't know you all that well but yeah...maybe one day I'll have to come down to 'laide.


----------



## Úlairi

Noldor_returned said:


> Yeah, just like I can listen to music and work well on school stuff...
> 
> Nah, I mean I can serve three customers while fixing up their donuts and coffee and making sure my coworkers are doing everything right.
> 
> But yes, I know what you mean...although I'm a little suprised to hear you drink Coopers. I don't know why...for some reason I find it easier to imagine a Cascade. I don't know you all that well but yeah...maybe one day I'll have to come down to 'laide.


 
Well, the only real thing going for it is the beer... Coopers is one of the best beers in the world. I feel so sorry for Victorians and New South Walians! However, the trade-off comes in the fact that our pints over here are schooners over there. I went to Melbourne twice and Sydney once during the holidays and when I found a place that served Coopers with 600 ml pints (instead of the rip-off 425 ml pints in Adelaide) I couldn't leave the place for hours! 

*Does the _Homer gurgle_ just thinking about it*

When I was in Melbourne I found this place that all the Irish were talking about at the Backpackers hostel called _The Drunken Poet_ (and here's a little TTF endorsement for you guys in Melbourne ). The place and the atmosphere is fantastic. The main reason I'm discussing it here is the fact that it serves the best Guinness in Melbourne - hands down. The woman there who owns it (I forget her name) cleans the lines every second day or so. The Irish were complaining that the Guinness here wasn't the same as Ireland (it's brewed here for one) but they couldn't stop talking about the place so I went there. Bloody fantastic. It's opposite the Queen Victoria Market on Peel Street; which is also excellent - but I got ripped off by one of the sketch artists at the market - sold me a @#$%ing poster! *shakes fist* 

Cascade isn't too bad until you start drinking it. 

How's about that Elb? You've got the ball rolling anyway! 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Noldor_returned

Hmm yes Guinness...and believe it or not Coopers is quite common in NSW...

As for good Sydney pubs, I'll let you know in six months time lol...

I was just wondering, do we have anyone on TTF who is a qualified barrista or beer-worker? Barley excepted obviously


----------



## Úlairi

I'm a Law student so I guess I don't qualify. My Uncle's a barrister I believe, if that's of any interest to you. Looking for legal advice on the best way to steal beer? 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Eledhwen

Noldor_returned said:


> Hmm yes Guinness...and believe it or not Coopers is quite common in NSW...
> 
> As for good Sydney pubs, I'll let you know in six months time lol...
> 
> I was just wondering, do we have anyone on TTF who is a qualified barrista or beer-worker? Barley excepted obviously


I worked in a bar once; it was a long time ago, but you never forget how to pull a good pint.

And on the issue of men multi-tasking, I don't think I can put the link here, but I recommend the YouTube video "Men can multitask". It proves they can. If it was at a UK cinema, I think it would be a 12A rating.


----------



## Walter

Noldor_returned said:


> I was just wondering, do we have anyone on TTF who is a qualified barrista or beer-worker? Barley excepted obviously


Do you mean barista in the traditional - Italian - sense (meaning a bartender) or in the 'modern' sense as someone who is - skillfully - preparing Espresso based coffee drinks in a coffee-shop (or something of the like) and has some level expertise regarding coffee?


----------



## Noldor_returned

Either one really...I was just wondering how long it takes to do the course because I was thinking of doing one. And to find out what their favourite coffee is

And don't worry, I have a second cousin who's a solicitor (I think).


----------



## Walter

I can only speak for coffee and my neck of Greenwood: Basic Barista course & certification takes 3 days, Advanced 5 days, but the latter can only be done when one has already 1 year of practical experience in a coffeeshop or similar.

However, skills and knowledge grow slowly and gradually with time, hence we insist on continous training and education of our customers' staff...


----------



## Noldor_returned

Awesome...as for the one year's experience that isn't a problem. Wow...I've been working for two years next month...

And is it just me or is making coffee relaxing? There's something about it that calms me down.

Much the same can be said for TTF. Something about it that calms me down.


----------



## Úlairi

It's these soothing green walls, nice paint job. My friend says coffee sends him to sleep... I don't even know how that's possible. My father used to have coffee before he went to bed also... weird.

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Noldor_returned

If they have decaf then that would make sense because people do the same with tea. The lack of caffeine would actually make for a nice bedtime drink. It's similar to drinking hot chocolate as well. No caffeine for me, just sugar, is what's happening if you drink hot chocolate.

As for the green walls you just reminded me of 'The Green Mile'. Good movie that.


----------



## Úlairi

I love _The Green Mile _as well; but a friend of mine has accused me of being a pre-pubescent and shy little girl for watching it.

I think Dad drank decaf but the friend who it sends to sleep has the real deal before bed. Perhaps he crashes very quickly from the low after the high...

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## HLGStrider

Honestly, it's all about tolerance. I grew up in a four to five cup a day family but myself didn't develop a taste for coffee until I started to work at a restaurant that had a coffee shop on the side. My brother can drink a ton of coffee and not feel the effects at all. Same with my sister. Before I started drinking coffee the caffiene from a cup of green tea before bed would give me a hard time falling asleep. I got a job making coffee and developed a tolerance. Now I can have coffee/tea/soda whatever before going to bed without any ill effects.


----------



## Firawyn

Ill effects? From coffee? *looks at half drained caramel chai* Um...I don't know what that means.


----------



## Úlairi

I'm sipping one right now... Good stuff... 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

just checking in... The decline of STARBUCKS? What the hell's going on here?
I do have however ONE GREAT BIG B***H with Starbucks: they're not carrying the Old Fashioned Chocolate Donuts anymore. WHAT'S UP WITH THAT??? If that's how they're going to be, _I don't need no stinkin' Starbucks!_

Barley


----------



## Noldor_returned

Barliman Butterbur said:


> just checking in... The decline of STARBUCKS? What the hell's going on here?
> I do have however ONE GREAT BIG B***H with Starbucks: they're not carrying the Old Fashioned Chocolate Donuts anymore. WHAT'S UP WITH THAT??? If that's how they're going to be, _I don't need no stinkin' Starbucks!_
> 
> Barley


 
You should come to my Donut King. We always have chocolate donuts 

And it seems to me these days that a lot more people are dependant on coffee/caffeine. Possibly going to be the next epidemic. I'm waiting for laws regulating caffeine and guarana.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Noldor_returned said:


> You should come to my Donut King. We always have chocolate donuts



Oh, I would if I could! There are other places in L.A. that have chocolate donuts, but none like they had at SBs. I heard a rumor that they were actually imports from Krispy Kreme, but I have no evidence...

Barley


----------



## Úlairi

Don't get started on Krispy Kreme... damn!  Adelaide doesn't even bloody have one! You have to head to Sydney for KK. On the plane back home there were so many people with boxes of KK Donuts in the overhead compartments. It was hilarious!

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


----------



## Prince of Cats

Don't you Dare bring up Krispy Kreme!!! AAAArrg Úlairi and Barley  They closed the one in town here a couple months ago and now I can't satisfy the crave


----------



## Úlairi

Should call it 'Krispy Craving'... *does Homer gurgle again*

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Barliman Butterbur

Ah, the Krispy Kraving! Frankly, I think that KK is just a state of mind, like Hollywood. Put just about anyone's donut in a microwave for about 10 seconds and you have a thing of beauty! But here's where you can find the KK nearest you: http://web.sa.mapquest.com/krispykreme/?tempset=search

Aha! That choc donut I was talking about IS a KK (see picture: row 6, 2nd from the left)!

Barley


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## Firawyn

Krispy Kreme... Gross. Way, way, way to sweet. And I LIKE sugar. 

I'll take Dunkin' Donuts any day.


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## Noldor_returned

Gah, Krispy Kreme is an insult to Donut companies. They used to be a rarity, then sold out commercially. This was soon followed by maintaining prices while sizes of donuts diminished. You wouldn't find that at Donut King! Every donut is hand-crafted (some machinery required) instead of made in a factory and sent out! ARGH! The FAT! The SUGAR! The INSULT!

Speaking of which, do people prefer iced or cinnamon donuts better?

And which is better with coffee?


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## Prince of Cats

Noldor_returned said:


> Every donut is hand-crafted (some machinery required) instead of made in a factory and sent out! ARGH! The FAT! The SUGAR! The INSULT!



Made in a factory? They had a huge glass wall (at least at ours) where you could watch all the doughnuts go down the line and deep fry right there on the spot and when they were cooking you would get at least one free one, even through the drive through. "Yeah I'd like the smallest coffee you've got and as many free doughnuts as you can get away with!"


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## Noldor_returned

The point is, Krispy Kreme is in a whole other league to every other donut. A league that is with Captain Nemo 20 000 leagues below.


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## Elbereth

I have to disagree...Krispy Kreme is not all that. That place is very overrated.

My fiance's friend is actually a doughnut chef at Dunkin Doughnuts...he prepares doughnuts each night (his work day begins at 11pm and he works all night preparing doughnuts for the next day for 2 or 3 nearby locations)

It is really amazing to see him work...he is so fast at cooking those doughnuts...it is almost artistic. When we visit him in his kitchen he allows us to sample some of the doughnuts...they are heavenly when they are warm and freshly cooked. There is nothing like it.


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## Illuin

I didn’t even know Krispy Kreme had their own shop. The only place I’ve ever seen them is in the Hess gas stations. I thought it was the _"Hess"_ brand name . Anyway, they are way too sweet, and I also like sweet (I put 3 sugars and 5 Splendas in my 20 oz coffee - for real ). Don’t like Dunkin' Donuts either. The only donuts I eat are the little mini chocolate covered Hostess in the six pack. That’s my breakfast at least twice a week, and it keeps me going all morning.


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## Prince of Cats

I agree that krispy cremes are way to sweet and super fattening and that you feel sick after eating 6 in a row ... but it's the only shop I've ever been at where you can watch them go from the hot oil to your hands


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## Illuin

> _I agree that krispy cremes are way to sweet and super fattening and that you feel sick after eating 6 in a row _


 
Six? Those are the regular size donuts; aren't they?


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## Prince of Cats

Illuin said:


> Six? Those are the regular size donuts; aren't they?



Haha when they first opened here in town when I was in highschool we used to each get a dozen. I vaguely remember getting the cops called on us for trying to trade doughnuts for food at wendys  

but forget that, I spelled 'too' 'to' where you quoted me


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## Illuin

> Originally posted by *Tevildo*
> _I vaguely remember getting the cops called on us for trying to trade doughnuts for food at wendys_


 
Huh? They called the cops on you for that? I’m guessing there’s a little more to the story than donuts.


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## HLGStrider

See coming from a small town that actually has mom-and-pop bakeries as well as knowing that most grocery stores have bakery sections that bake fairly good maple bars, I've never seen the need for donut chains, though I suppose a drive thru would be handy on occasion. Still, I have a bit of my post pregnancy chub and fading stretch marks to consider anyway, so donuts should be on my current list of foods.


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## Majimaune

Never been a fan of KK. I don't think that they're that nice. It has to be a cinnamon donut, just cooked so it's nice and hot.


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## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _Still, I have a bit of my post pregnancy chub and fading stretch marks to consider anyway, so donuts should be on my current list of foods._


 








I’m guessing that was sarcasm, unless there is some magical property in donuts I am unaware of. But I’m pretty sure I would have seen that on a late night infomercial. We would also have a lot more than 6.6 billion people in the world if that were the case .


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## Elbereth

LOL... I was thinking that by eating lots of doughnuts Elgee was aiming to illuminate her stretch marks...plumping up your belly can certainly stretch those stretch marks right out....


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## HLGStrider

I'll pretend it was sarcasm rather than a typo . . . there should've been an "n't" in there. Must've been a fruedian slip.


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## Aulë

Oh you two - behave yourselves.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner

Rumors of TTF's demise were premature.


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## Halasían

I think it's the only one of the 'legacy' Tolkien movie websites from the early '00's to actually come through the lean years intact and reactivated.


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## Lómelindë Lindórië

Halasían said:


> I think it's the only one of the 'legacy' Tolkien movie websites from the early '00's to actually come through the lean years intact and reactivated.


I'm going to prophesise that it certainly won't be deactivating for a long while...

_Not when there are Ainur like me popping up secretly every now and then... _


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## Aldarion

Hell, HR Tolkien Board was alive until the last year or so, and that is just _Croatian language_ Tolkien community. One would expect English-language community to do far better.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner

At least we're still here. 😁


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## Lómelindë Lindórië

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> At least we're still here. 😁


By my grace and the grace of the Valar, we are *not* disappearing.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner

Yes.

Now, who wants to talk about donuts? 😄


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## Lómelindë Lindórië

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Now, who wants to talk about donuts? 😄


I live by the refreshing breezes of Manwe, and the light of the gentle stars of Varda. I don't eat donuts.

_I'm not sure if the rest of my kin secretly do, though... _

Oh, I almost forgot to add - Manwe and Varda certainly don't, I think...?


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## Lithóniel

𝓜𝓲𝓻𝓲𝓮𝓵 𝓘𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓵𝔀𝓮𝓷 𝓐𝓶𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓮𝓵 said:


> Oh, I almost forgot to add - Manwe and Varda certainly don't, I think...?


You never know! Maybe they secretly do… 🤔🫢


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## Lómelindë Lindórië

Lithóniel said:


> You never know! Maybe they secretly do… 🤔🫢


Wait, I didn't mean it that way- 

_Maybe it was better if I had forgotten it. _*I take that back!*


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## Halasían

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Yes.
> 
> Now, who wants to talk about donuts? 😄


I'm going to a donut festival this coming weekend. Hoping to find an actual maple bar.
Haven't had a good maple bar since I was last in North America in November 2018.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner

There are _donut festivals_?! 😳


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## Halasían

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> There are _donut festivals_?! 😳


Indeed there are!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner

A bit far for me, but have a good time! 😁


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## Persephone

I have celiac disease so donuts are a no-no.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner

Sorry to hear that -- _but_, the good news is you can get them gluten-free. Here are some:

So eat up! 😊


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