# Rank the evil creatures



## Flame of Utumno (Dec 16, 2001)

If you were to rank the evil creatures in order of power and terror, what would you have?
This is what I would personally have:
1. Morgoth
2. Balrogs and other evil Valar (Including Sauron)
3. Ungoliant
4. Dragons (All forms)
5. The Nazgul
6. Descendants of Ungoliant (such as Shelob)
7. Orcs
8. Wolves
9. Trolls
(Are there any creatures I've missed?)


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## menchu (Dec 17, 2001)

I agree with the first two, but after that I can't say because most of them are submitted (Sauron and the other Maiar and balrogs too, but I see them "above") and I don't know how far are they from each other when it comes to power.
Anyone, is there a book where it's said (about the power differences)?


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## Telchar (Dec 17, 2001)

1. Morgoth 
2. Ungoliant 
3. Sauron
4. Balrogs 
5. Dragons
6. Nazguls
7. Shelob
8. Orcs
9. Trolls 
10. Wolves

Morgoth was the only Vala that truned evil, and among the Maiar that followed him, Sauron probably was the most powerful one..


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## menchu (Dec 17, 2001)

*Tel*

Ok, sir, I changed it... 
Had a slide and editted my post...


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## Grond (Dec 17, 2001)

My rank would be as follows:

1) Melkor wielding Grond (he hated being called Morgoth)
2) Ungoliant
3) Sauron
4) Glaurung (Wurm and not a dragon) Father of Dragons
4) Balrogs
5) Ancalagon the Black and the other great dragons.
6) Carcharoth 
7) Draugluin
8) Other werewolves
9) Melkor without Grond (he was a wise ass wimp without Grond)


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## Eonwe (Dec 24, 2001)

ok but what about the creatures that live deep below the caves of Moria, and "Sauron knows them not" (TT when Gandalf talks about his bad day with the balrog)

How can you be a Maia and not know a particular bad-a$$ creature?


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## Curufinwe (Dec 30, 2001)

*evil creatures*

1.Melkor
2.Gothmog
3.Sauron
4.Balrog's
5.Ungoliant
there the five main people , the others i couldnt care were they were.


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## Gloer (Jan 4, 2002)

*Ranking*

It is not so easy to rank these foe's Power and Terror are very different and wide criteria. I interpret them in following ways:
1. Power - ability to physically mould the environment, Physical power
2. Terror - ability to psychologically mould other beings, Psychological power



1. Power

1. Melkor - could rise mountains
2. Ungoliant - could turn light into material darkness
3. Balrogs - helped to mould the earth and destroy it
4. Dragons - Ancalagon, Smaug and the rest could cause great destruction
5. Sauron - was never described as very powerful, indeed gets beaten by Isildur, Huan the dog and so on... only makes a ring

2. Terror

1. Sauron - he was better than his master in manipulation, deceit and terror
2. Ringwraiths - what can I say, embodiment of fear?
3. Melkor - lied and twisted truths, but couldn't make his foes really fear him, only hate 
4. Ungoliant - caused a lot of terror with darkness, during a brief apparence
5. Dragons - they speak smoothly, you know
6. Balrogs


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## Grond (Jan 5, 2002)

Gloer, the following quote is from the Valaquenta, "Of the Enemies" and I will leave it to you to interpret it; but, it would seem to make Sauron/Gorthaur the Cruel out to be pretty darn powerful.

_"Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void."_


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## Gloer (Jan 6, 2002)

I read that twice and yeas it says Sauron took part in Melkors actions and that he had the skills of the people of Aule. The impression is that Sauron is more aiding Melkor with his cunning mind and skills than his physical power. I have actually ranked Sauron quite much higher in these aspects.


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## Flame of Utumno (Jan 7, 2002)

Gloer, its good you divide it into Power and Terror, however I would think that Melkor is higher in the scale of terror. I think he would have been the most terrifying, but could probably control himself more and used his terror as he saw fit. 

Most despots and evil tyrants use fear to subdue their subjects, so I could imagine that Morgoth needed a lot of terror to be able to terrify his balrogs and Sauron into submission.


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## Gloer (Jan 10, 2002)

*Well...*

I do not totally agree.

I feel that Sauron - like Saruman after him - was a very rational spirit. He could easily reason that Melkors power is beyond him to challenge. Instead he could pursue his ends as Melkors captain.

Sauron did have quite an independent role: 1. He ruled in Angband while Melkor was captive. 2. He had his own citadel at the island in Sirion (forgot the name) and his werewolve servants.

Also I feel that Morgoth knew that Sauron was not afraid of him - but only respected power. At least that I suspect was behind agreeing to duell Fingolfin. He didn't want to look weak in front of his officers. He could have ordered them to take Fingolfin captive.
But how would that sound like: 1. Morgoth escapes Ungoliant only because Balrogs help him out. 2. Morgoth escapes Fingolfin only because Balrogs help him out. 
The second time Morgoth faces an enemy again he relies on others? It makes Morgoth look dependant on his servants! And that is dangerous when you actually are giving your strength to all sorts of creatures.

So I believe that Morgoth ruled Sauron because it was an accepted and known fact that he could crush anyone who rebelled, but give a lot of power to faithful servent.

Conclusion: Morgoth could not terrorize Sauron, who played his game rationally.


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## Gloer (Jan 10, 2002)

*While crushing the elf-lord...*

Melkor should have quietly cursed Sauron and Gothmog for all those needless woulds he had to take from Fingolfin. Just to show those maiar that he was the Lord!

(Or did he really want to defend his honour?)

And in his envy Sauron might have enjoyed his masters agony!


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## Ragnarok (Jan 10, 2002)

1) Melkor
2) Sauron 
3) Dragons
4) Balrogs
5) Nazgul
6) Trolls
7) Orcs
8) Wargs

That's the rank of evil. (Of the Forces of Melkor and Sauron)

Ungoliant was Melkor's partner and never had intention of obeying him. Shelob was never under Sauron's control. He couldve killed her, but she was an excellent guard into Mordor. But Ungoliant would be between 1) and 2); Shelob would be between 5) and 6).


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