# The Greatest Hero of Arda?



## Link (Dec 5, 2002)

Feanor - Creates Silmarils, greatest craftsmen, vows to destroy Melkor, first one to name him Morgoth, slain by Gothmog...

Fingolfin - After Feanor's death, is named High King of Noldor (even though he's half Vanyar), the only Elf to ever fight Morgoth himself and wound him, but is crushed in the attempt and is slain...

Beren - lover of Luthien, son of Barahir, steals a Silmaril from the crown of Morgoth, is slain by Cacharoth the wolf. Later comes back to Beleriand with Luthien, stays for a while, then dies of age...

Turin - the most hopeless and broken hero his life is the most depressing, but he DID slay Glaurung, even though he did it with his sister and falls on his own sword and dies...

Tuor - had a great quest which lead him to Gondolin, fought in the sack of Gondolin, his son was Earendil, and he is the only one of men to ever be granted immortality and live in Valinor...

Earendil - Half Elven (later to become full elven), he is the son of Tuor and Idril, the daughter of Turgon. He marries Elwing, Daughter of Dior (the son of Beren and Luthien) and who also has in possesion the only free Silmaril, which then allows Earendil to find Valinor and bail the Noldor out of the stupid oath of Feanor. He gets the Valar to send their mighty armies to destroy Melkor, and Earendil himself, leading the Eagles of Thorondor into a battle with the dragons, slays Ancalagon the Balck, greatest of the dragons (the greatest thing an elf could possibly kill, since an elf cannot slay an Ainur or Maiar). He also gives birth to Elrond (who we all know and love) and Elros (the founder of Numenor and starter of the great race of men). Earendil was never slain, and forever sails the heavens with his wife in his white ship Vingilot, bearing the Silmaril on his brow, most beloved of the elven-stars...

Aragorn - Isildur's heir, the greatest huntsmen of the third age, fights in the War of the Ring, weilds Anduril (Narsil re-forged). Becomes king of the Re-united Kingdom (Arnor and Gondor). Weds Awren, the daugther of Elrond. Son is Eldarion. Aragorn dies of old age....

Frodo - Ring bearer, destroys the One Ring, bringing about hte ultimate defeat of Sauron. Frodo leaves to Valinor with Bilbo and Gandalf at the ed of his quest...

Gandalf - Maiar, the greatest of all the Istari (Wizards), brought Bilbo to find the ring, guided the Fellowship, slew Balrog in Moria of which he was also slain, but granted a new, more powerful from by the Valar and returns to Middle-Earth as Gandal the White to finish his deeds. Was the main driving force in destruction of Sauron. Leave with Biblo and Frodo to go to Valinor....


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## Link (Dec 5, 2002)

I chose Earendil......


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## Eriol (Dec 5, 2002)

Me too.

Is this poll on the right place, though?


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## Lantarion (Dec 5, 2002)

Wow, this is a little tricky, at least for me.
But I would also have to say Eärendil. Beren came to mind first, because he reminds me so much of the heroes in the Kalevala; same with Túrin. But I have always had a weak spot for characters who are heroic and who are displayed in a highly legendary and mythical mien: and what moore mythical way is there than to have a Man sail to the land of the gods and save the Erth, and then sail across the sky in a shining boat for the rest of the Ages of the World?! 
It's largely the way the characters are portrayed, or the mode that is used to portray them, that affected my choice. Of course, Gandalf was also an immense positive impact on the fate of Midddle-Earth (NOTE: I think when the poll speaks of 'Arda' I think a more precise title would be 'Middle-Earth', which is where all the events so well displayed by Link took place), but the way he was portrayed did not affect me the way Beren's, Túrin's or Eärendil's characters were shown. 

Welcome to the forum, Link! I see you have already earned your title of 'Loremaster', and you bear the title well. 

This thread was moved from the forum "The Lord of the Rings" to "The Hall of Fire".


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## Ancalagon (Dec 5, 2002)

Hero! I notice Lúthien has not made your list, and as hero's go, I would count her mightier than those selected.


> He gets the Valar to send their mighty armies to destroy Melkor, and Earendil himself, leading the Eagles of Thorondor into a battle with the dragons, slays Ancalagon the Black, greatest of the dragons (the greatest thing an elf could possibly kill, since an elf cannot slay an Ainur or Maiar).


 As for Eärendil, I cannot agree with your summary regarding the slaying of a Maiar as it might well be considered by many that Glorfindel, in hand to hand combat with a Balrog, slew him. There are many who deserve to be on this list for indeed seemingly small feats of bravery that had lasting significance and impact; consider Beleg Strongbow, who was fated to die by his own sword at the hand of Turin. His death was served him as he bravely cut Turin free.

Finrod Felagund also, who aided Beren in a hopeless quest for the Silmaril, brave and heroic, because he did it out of his love and friendship for Beren, fighting to the death against Sauron the Sorcerer.

Yet, of all these, Lúthien is in my estimation the greatest hero of Arda.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 5, 2002)

The greatest hero? Well, that definitely rules Fëanor out! What, creating jewels (however precious they be) and guarding them selfishly; leading your kin foolishly into a hopeless war, and abandoning them mercilessly?Nay, those are not the traits even of a lesser hero, let alone THE GREATEST one.
The only heroic thing that Fëanor had done (albeit a bit desperate) was fiercly making his way through to Angband.

I'll have to get back to you on who my choice is, this is just too difficult!


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## Link (Dec 5, 2002)

Just a quick note to Ancalagon.

I know this sounds nitpicky, but i was going to put in the title in parenthesis (not heroine!)

We're talking guys here, not the girls.
I understand what yer sayin though.

And I put people on here that had the greatest influence through-out Arda. Finrod and others indeed had great bravery, and were lesser heroes, but I'm talkin the main heroes here. You are indeed right about the Maiar slayings though, b/c i now just remembered that Balrogs were corrupted Maiar. I stand corrected. Although, Ancalagon the Black was greater than any Balrog.


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## Orodreth (Dec 6, 2002)

I personally liked Tuor the most. Although Gondolin fell while he was defending it, he did kill several balrogs in the process. I find that impressive. Don't you?


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## Niniel (Dec 6, 2002)

I chose Frodo. The others were all trained warriors, and though they maybe weren't exactly expecting what ws going to happen to them, at least they were trained to withstand all kinds of danger. While Frodo was just a little hobbit with no training or experience and no idea what he was up against, and he saved Middle-earth almost by himself (well, with some help from Sam & Gollum).


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## Arvedui (Dec 6, 2002)

I go for Eärendil.
Even if there were a lot more characters to choose from, I'd stick with Eärendil. The sum of his feats is to me greater than any other.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Orodreth _
> *I personally liked Tuor the most. Although Gondolin fell while he was defending it, he did kill several balrogs in the process.*



Tuor killed several Balrogs? Where did you get that information?


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## Link (Dec 6, 2002)

Yeah, I never read Tuor killing several Balrogs. Trying to kill one would be hard enough. I'd rather fight Morgoth himself than several Balrogs. ***Edited by Ancalagon***


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## Zale (Dec 6, 2002)

I have to choose Fingolfin, for outstanding bravery (/stupidity).
And for wounding Morgoth, which no-one else managed to do.And Link, why isn't Lúthien on your list? She was at least as heroic as Beren.


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## Confusticated (Dec 8, 2002)

People who I woud consider right off hand that are not on that list:

Melian
Finrod


I see that Ancalagon mentioned Finrod, though I woud consider his greatest deed to be his friendship with men, as I think it had a bigger positive impact than the keeping of his oath.
In fact if not for his friendship with men Beren may not have been in the position to meet Luthien. It would either not have happend or had to have happend by other means.
Finrod's meeting with men was, as I judge it, the turning point in the war against Morgoth .....the saviour of Middle-earth and of the race of men. 

If females are to be included too then Melian is about even with Finrod as I see it.


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## Celebithil (Dec 20, 2002)

*Finrod or Fingolfin*

I think it could be either Finrod or Fingolfin, first I think it would have to be someone who fought against Morgoth not Sauron because Morgoth was such as more powerful foe with many balrogs and dragons not just Smaug and Durin's Bane to contend with. Finrod and Fingolfin were both incredible people Finrod created a great city and was a good fighter and stuff but I think Fingolfin really would take it. I think when he marches on Angband to confront Morgoth is one of middle earth greatest moments. I would like to have been their to see his intensity and has anyone else other than Valar made Morgoth scared it's been a while but I believe that Morgoth actually feared Fingolfin when he was called out by him. I think in that time Fingolfin could have destroyed anything other than a Valar, Balrogs, Maiar or Elf.


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## Lantarion (Dec 20, 2002)

I won't change my vote at this point, but I think that Túrin has a very strong case: it is stated in HoME V.5 that Túrin will smight Melkor to his death, avenging all Men he had exploited or killed, and all of his family. And that's pretty dang heroic, if you ask me!


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## Celebithil (Dec 20, 2002)

*Correction*

My last line should read "I think in that time Fingolfin could have destroyed anything other than a Valar be it Balrogs, Maiar or Elf."


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## Finduilas (Dec 20, 2002)

*A Hero?*

What do you think is the answer of the question of life and existance itsself?Yes,the answer is a quite difficult one but so is the question.
So how can we define a hero of Arda,of life,of so many generations,of earth?That's at least ridiculous!
Even if we want do that crazy idea let's see ,what is a hero?
I don't mean dictionary defenitions but the whole concept that EVERY and EACH person relates to the word.Undoubtfully,we can't give such a definition because it's something everybody understands differently.
Someone might understands it as a person who does something heroic but another-a person(or even creature)who/which has done an act of great importance-for example,Gollum eventhough he can't be called a hero if my opinion was counted.
Anyway,in this way of thoughts we can't define what hero is ,not a definition which would justify everyone's opinion.So how can we define THE HERO? That's imposible!We can't say that someone is a hero of a so giantic 'place' or even 'era' as Arda.Arda was the home of too many people(and not only people,that's the ridiculous-how can we judge different races?)who can't be known even half they deserve and need to be known so as to be appreciated.
I have already posted that In my opinion there is no hero even of the lotr so I don't think there can be a hero of something larger.Every person is a hero himself because of his individuality and that he has grown a person.Everybody deserves to be called a hero but nobody THE hero because nobody dominates the whole world.


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## krash8765 (Dec 23, 2002)

definately Earendil, without him Morgoth would still be in Middle Earth and the entire course of history of Middle Earth would be changed definately for the worst.


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## Finduilas (Dec 23, 2002)

> definately Earendil, without him Morgoth would still be in Middle Earth and the entire course of history of Middle Earth would be changed definately for the worst



Oh,really?Do you think there wouldn't be other heroes?


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## FoolOfATook (Dec 25, 2002)

This poll reminds me of an essay I read at the Greenbooks website, where a writer argued that Sam, not Frodo, was the true hero of LOTR. If one accepts that argument, and I believe that there is a strong case to be made for it, then you would have to accept Sam as THE hero of the Third Age, which would make him a strong contender for the honor in question. 

That being said, I voted for Beren, mainly because Pippin wasn't an option


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## Confusticated (Dec 25, 2002)

Finduilas,
The poll asks who we think is the greatest hero, not The Hero.


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## The lidless Eye (Dec 26, 2002)

I would have to go with Eäredil. Although Fingolfin is also the most likely candidate. But my vote is based mostly, not entirely, on other peoples arguments. I am only half way through The Silmarillion.


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## Aragorns_girl00 (Dec 30, 2002)

I don't know who or what Arda is so i just put aragorn.


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## Celebthôl (Dec 30, 2002)

K i chose Gandalf but i meant Fingolfin please change it, i didnt see him at first galnce!!!

Thôl


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## Finduilas (Dec 31, 2002)

> The poll asks who we think is the greatest hero, not The Hero.



Well,Nom,you said it-THE greatest hero.It turns out that we should pick up ONE ,only one of so many others.There is no ONE.


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## Finduilas (Jan 1, 2003)

> I don't know who or what Arda is so i just put aragorn.





> yep



You are not objective.You say it only because he is your favourite character Actually,there were some more heroic than him.


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## Celebthôl (Jan 1, 2003)

K its clearly fingolfin in my eyes becaues he strove with evil itself!
i.e. first i thought gandalf because of all he has done and how he fights the good fight against Sauron who we all agree its really evil this is duplicated in the films, but then we think of Fingolfin he had one on one battle with the being that made Sauron what he is the being that created all evil on Arda, he is clearly the greatest hero in my eyes!!! He also lead a people through the icey path of Helcaraxe and survived,

then we come to the big mouth Feanor well he didnt do much in the way of heroism except battle a Balrog who ran away from the Valar in a huff and stoll and burned the boats of a people weaker than that of his-self,

then Beren, well he did a mighty deed getting back the Silmaril among other things but was scared of waking Morgoth and so wasn't as heroic as he might have been,

Turin and Tuor i cant remember exactly what they did i pretty sure one killed Glaurung and one got stuck on some place looking accross to Beleriand (i havent read the sil in quite a while),

then earendil well all he did as far as i remember was get help to Middle Earth he didnt do much heroic acts such as get a silmaril from the crown of Morgoth or fight a Maia, all he did was sail his boat,

Aragorn didnt do much either all he did was fight a few fights and help to rouse Rohan, he didnt fight anybod impressive either!

and Frodo well he did jack aswell, he just walked loads and well granted he did walk into Mordor but well lets face it bigger deads have been accoumplished!!!

and there you have it all sorry if i come off to strong and i still respect these people in their own ways except Feanor who i simply hate to bits!!!

my order of heroism is as follows,

Fingolfin,
Beren,
Gandalf,
Tuor/Turin, both about the same,
Frodo,
Aragorn,
Earendil and 
Feanor

Thôl


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## Eldanor (Jan 1, 2003)

As some of you, I think there may be many different ways of being a great hero. 

One of them is the enemy: the greatest hero would be the one who fights the most powerful enemy. From this point of view, the hero would be Fingolfin, of maybe Túrin (according to that predictions of killing Melkor with the black sword). The others: Gandalf, Eärendil and others who fighed a Maia, an then the list goes down...

Another one: the "image", the glory that a hero reaches after his actions, the glorious ending. I would include here the... I don't know how to explain it well (in english), but it's like if the hero was loyal and resisted to corruption. Here, definitively, I think Eärendil takes the first place: he's like the blessed, with his flying Vingilot and the Silmaril and all that. I voted for him. The others... 
- Túrin was corrupted and he died in pain and suffering.
- Fëanor, well, the worst corruption (in my opinion), and he didn't have a happy end. 
- Tuor is clean, but he doesn't reach Eärendil. 
- Aragorn and Frodo... their glory comes in the world of men, and the glory of Eärendil comes from the Valar and their kingdom. 
- Fingolfin was good, but he was fighting (with Morgoth) because he had lost all hope, I mean, he wan't entirely clean or "clear".
- Beren was very loyal, and a very great hero, but... I think he's like a hero for himself, because of his love with Lúthien (I don't think that is a poor reason, but it's not like the 'noble mission' of Eärendil).
- Gandalf was great too, but I don't know... he was sent from Valinor to help the people of ME in their fight against Sauron, not for get his own glory.

There are many other 'kinds' of hero. But I think the greatest would be a hero in all the aspects. My vote is still with Eärendil.


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## BlackCaptain (Sep 28, 2003)

*Who was the hero of Arda?*

I'm not even going to post a poll, because it would require way too many options, and I'd probly forget half of them. Sort of an extension to the True Hero of LotR thread in the LotR section, here we're gona debate who was the goodest of good, the greatest of great, and who had the most positive, or most counteracting to evil effect in the history of Tolkien's works. 

I myself am opinionless at the moment. I'm waiting to see some of your ideas to make my desicion. Perhaps a mod of some sort could put together an ultimate elite list? I wouldnt be able to...

Frodo
Gandalf
Aragorn
Gollum
Feanor
Fingolfin
Finrod
Turin
Tuor
Hurin
Earendil
Elendil
Elwë
Bilbo
Thorondor
Beren
Luthien

those could be some of the options... I would make a poll, but again, I doubt those are all the people worthy of the award.


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## Starbrow (Sep 28, 2003)

It certainly is a hard decision, but I'd have to say it's between Fingolfin, Beren, Earendil, and Luthien (yes, I know she's a woman, but I still think she should be listed) because they fought against Morgoth who was greater than Sauron. I decided on Beren because I think it took great courage to steal the Silmaril from Morgoth without fighting him. It made Beren more vulnerable than if he fought him outright. The act of stealing the Silmaril is the turning point of the Silmarillion. It proved there was hope of defeating Morgoth and Earendil couldn't have made his journey without the jewel. I can't imagine Earendil going up to Morgoth with just his wife.

It doesn't hurt that I'm a sucker for the romantic story of Beren and Luthien.


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## BlackCaptain (Sep 28, 2003)

Oh my bad... I wasn't aware there was another thread like this. Perhaps a mod could update the poll with tons of options?


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## Kelonus (Sep 29, 2003)

Is Arda the world LOTR's takes place?


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## Kahmûl (Sep 29, 2003)

I would have to say Frodo for destroying the ring.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kelonus _
> *Is Arda the world LOTR's takes place? *



Arda is the name of the whole 'kingdom', the whole 'earth', of which Middle-Earth is part, and where all the adventures witnessed in the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion take place.

I give my vote to Gandalf, but I won't bother with an explanation. There are a few other that I could name as the greatest hero as well.


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## Maedhros (Oct 4, 2003)

> I decided on Beren because I think it took great courage to steal the Silmaril from Morgoth without fighting him. It made Beren more vulnerable than if he fought him outright.


Oh please, Beren is one of the most overrated characters in the legendarium. He sought FF for advice, while Thalion the Steadfast, provided safe passage for Turgon and Co. to return to Gondolin.
Beren was afraid when Sauron discovered them, and he was afraid when Morgoth stirred when he tried to take more than one Silmaril.
The great Húrin Thalion stood up to Morgoth:
From _The Lays of Beleriand: The Lay of the Children of Húrin_


> Then Húrin answered, Hithlum's chieftain --
> his shining eyes with sheen of fire
> in wrath were reddened: 'O ruinous one,
> by fear unfettered I have fought thee long,
> ...


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 10, 2003)

Hmm I would like to say Gil-Galad,but I think that Earendil really did a gread deed.He opposed the fate,and the oceans,because of the people and the elves.He sacrifised his beloved Me and stayed in Aman.hmhmh I like him.So let him be the greatest hero of Arda!!!


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## Arda's Bane (Nov 15, 2003)

Fingolfin.

Such was the might of Fingolfin in his anger that all who saw him mistook him for Orome himself, and such was the might of Fingolfin that Melkor- the most powerful being in Ea- was scared of him and "unwilling" to duel him. In that moment Fingolfin could slay anyone or anything save a Valar (who barely won).


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## elf_queen (Nov 15, 2003)

Eärendil for obvious reasons.


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## Saermegil (Nov 17, 2003)

*Turin Turambar*

I chose Turin because I am enchanted by his tragic fate. Perhaps he does not deserve this honour but I daresay he earned it by being such a tormented figure. I would also have liked to see Beleg Curthalion on the list, the elf whose death was wovwn together with Turin's fate.


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## meneldor (Nov 18, 2003)

I voted for Earendil because of the result of his actions. Fingolfin has always been my favorite for his outright bravery, Sam also.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: Turin Turambar*



> _Originally posted by Saermegil _
> *I chose Turin because I am enchanted by his tragic fate. Perhaps he does not deserve this honour but I daresay he earned it by being such a tormented figure. I would also have liked to see Beleg Curthalion on the list, the elf whose death was wovwn together with Turin's fate. *



I think that there is a difference between heroic character and tragic character.Yes Turin was the one who suffered most,but does that make him the greatest hero?I doubt.


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## Saermegil (Nov 23, 2003)

I know! But please forgive me for voting for my favorite character instead the one I would have voted for if I had voted objectively 
Anyway I said something for him not really earning it in my first post. 
My "objective" choice would be Earendil or Sam, but many of the others are highly overrated.


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## Inderjit S (Nov 23, 2003)

> but many of the others are highly overrated.



Tuor and Beren are the only ones who I would call "over-rated" but I like Beren and I feel he should be there anyway. Tuor was way over-rated. 

And no Húrin Thalion, Faramir, Finwë Ñoldoran or Círdan Nowë-tut tut!


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## Saermegil (Nov 24, 2003)

I would say that besides the ones you have mentioned, Feanor is "over-rated"


How do you use that characters when you write? Is it a font? Or a language?


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## Lantarion (Nov 24, 2003)

They're accent marks.. They tell you how you're supposed to prounounce that letter. 
Look for a very informative thread in Member Announcements.. You'll see a complete chart of what buttons to press to get a certain accent mark; if you dno't have a sophisticated Scandinavian keyboard, that it. 

But I've said this before, I'll say it again. Eärendil is the most mythical and legendary 'hero', and did the most out of all of those in that list (he started the War of Wrath!! ).. GO EÄRENDIL!


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## Piedra de elfo (Nov 24, 2003)

Hey hi, im late at the topic, sorry, but i find it very interesting, and nice, and i guess i choose Earendil, eventough its a tough poll, i mean a lot of heroes are mentioned here


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## Inderjit S (Nov 25, 2003)

> I would say that besides the ones you have mentioned, Feanor is "over-rated"



Why exactly? He was one of the if not the greatest of the Ñoldor, and Elves in general, he created the Silmarils (Beyond the skill of almost anyone), improved the alphabet of Rúmil, made the Palantir (Beyond the skill of Saruman and Sauron) revered by even the greatest of the loremasters (i.e. Pengoloð) and if it wasn't for him none of the things that happened to shape Arda for the better would have took place. Over-rated indeed. Fëanor may not have the *yawn* heroism of Beren, Finrod or Sauron () but he had the spirit and courage to put him amongst the great of Arda. Even Gandalf wished he could 'see the great hand and mind of Fëanor at work, slaying Teleri and rupturing groins'. 



> 'Say this to Manwë Súlimo, High King of Arda: if Fëanor cannot overthrow Morgoth, at least he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest. Such hurt at the least will I do to the Foe of the Valar that even the mighty in the Ring of Doom
> shall wonder to hear it. Yea, in the end they shall follow me. Farewell!'


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Saermegil _
> *I would say that besides the ones you have mentioned, Feanor is "over-rated"
> 
> 
> How do you use that characters when you write? Is it a font? Or a language? *


How can be the greatest elf ever "over-rated"?


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## Saermegil (Nov 27, 2003)

Well, Feanor has done all these wonderful things you have mentioned, and he may truly be a great hero, but for me he is not the greatest.

He loved the Silmarils too much. 
He takes a rash decision to set out to ME to take back the Silmarils, he unjustly rebells against the Valar, leads the Noldor into exile
Slays the Teleri!
He swears the Oath of Feanor, by which his son's hearts were corrupted, and causing them to do evil deeds in order to re-gain the Silmarils

This is why I believe that he does not deserve to be called the greates Hero of Arda, great though he may be, because of his major mistakes and character flaws


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 27, 2003)

You know everybody has its own opinion.What I meant was that Feanor deserves to be in the list,he is not "over-rated".IMHO he was not the greatest hero,but he was the greatest elf.


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## ms Greenleaf (Nov 30, 2003)

I choose you Earendil, I love this elf's love for the ocean...maybe I should pick Ulma...although he really does not count.


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 4, 2003)

Ulmo?Talking about heroism Ulmo it is very difficult for him to be part of the list.His actions and his status (A Vala)are the reason for me not to count him For him it would be a heroism if he fights alone with Morgoth to save the Children of Eru,etc.

But if we talk about those who loved The Children of Iluvatar he should be at the top of the list.


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## BelDain (Dec 9, 2003)

Samwise Gamgee


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## felagund (Dec 29, 2003)

i would say thorondor the eagle so i chose other


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## Ponte (Dec 30, 2003)

I say Túrin because of his part in the last battle.


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## Inderjit S (Jan 2, 2004)

Tolkien seems to have rejected that idea. (Túrin coming back to slay Melkor.) It latter appears in 'The Problem of Ros' that Andreth the Bëorian wise-woman made a prophecy concerning Túrin coming back and slaying Ancalagon in the Last Battle.


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## Niirewen (Jan 2, 2004)

Like several of you, I chose Earendil. Definately Earendil.


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## Éomond (Jan 5, 2004)

Fingolfin or Tuor.

Fingolfin because of his sacrifice and bravery to fight Melkor (and wound him) It's great and sad at the same time.

Tuor, because, well, he just seemed cool to me. Plus he's the father of Earendil (my third choice), and he was/sorta is a man. I just always seemed to like the race of Men over Elves. I have no clue why.


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## Ponte (Jan 5, 2004)

Inderjit S said:


> Tolkien seems to have rejected that idea. (Túrin coming back to slay Melkor.) It latter appears in 'The Problem of Ros' that Andreth the Bëorian wise-woman made a prophecy concerning Túrin coming back and slaying Ancalagon in the Last Battle.





> The language of the Folk of Haleth was not used, for they had perished and would not rise again, unless the prophecy of Andreth the Wise-woman should prove true, that Túrin in the Last Battle should return from the Dead, and before he left the Circles of the World for ever should challenge the Great Dragon of Morgoth, Ancalagon the Black, and deal him the death-stroke


The Problem of Ros The People of Middle-earth HoME XII.

Thanks for pointing this out. I must have missed it. Since Ancalagon in all early wiritngs was killed by Eärendil I find it far to confusing and I withdraw from calling Túrin The Greatest Hero of Arda. 

My new vote for The Greatest Hero of Arda is Hathol because if he hadn't existed then there would have been no Eärendil and no Húrin Thalion and no Elros and no Elrond and so on and on.


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## Warrior (Jan 18, 2004)

I chose Frodo because he is a Hobbit, untrained in war, and his world is centered around the Shire. What he knows about the outside world is through Biblo's adventures, and when he does get to go on an adventure on his own, and leave the Shire, it was not by choice, it was because of his obligation to destroy the Ring. Which he did. With great risk to his own life and sanity. Although he did have help, the weight and the responibility of the destruction of the Ring fell on Frodo's shoulders. Frodo was a hero. He saved Middle-Earth, and felled the enemy. And, I think descovered that he is stronger than he thought.


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## Turin Turambar (Jan 27, 2004)

"Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of Turin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the children of Hurin and all Men be avenged." 

The second prophecy of mandos, if this is tolkiens final intention then there can be no argument that turin is the greatest hero in tolkiens work.

It is also later spoken of the fate of men, 'of men the prophecy speaks not, save of turin alone, who is named amongst the gods'.

So turin ultimately will get the highest reward.

This evidence made me vote for turin. Earendil the blessed is second though.

On the other hand, if tolkien had no intention of making turin slay melkor (although in 4 of the 5 versions of the final prophecies turin is shown to be the one who will slay melkor) then earendil would be the greatest hero.

Everyone is entitled to feel differently, but theres one thing we probably all agree on. If turin does slay melkor and is named amongst the gods then he must be the greatest hero not only in arda, but in all tolkiens work.

I like the idea of turin slaying melkor...eru gave the gift of free will to men and men alone, the sil states:

'but they should have a virtue to shape their life, amid the powers and chances of the world, beyond the music of the ainur, which is as fate to all things else.'

(from 'of the begining of days')

The prophecy that turin slays melkor is made even more just when realises that it is free will that ultimately conquers and overcomes pure evil. Turin the cursed uses the gift eru bestowed upon men, the gift of free will, to conquer and destroy all evil. Surely this is the greatest heroic act?


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## Turin (Jan 27, 2004)

Nicely put. I have to agree with you.


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