# Trekky Thread, going where we have been before, or something like that



## HLGStrider

K, Star Trek references have been popping up in all sorts of unexpected places lately so I thought I'd make a thread to discuss what is another large, sprawling world for us to escape into.

I started to become interested in Star Trek when I had a friend in high school who liked Voyager. At the time my family didn't get TV reception but Lizybet recorded Voyager and so we got to watch somewhat fuzzy versions of that show. Later she added in Next Generations and a few Deep Space 9's. We watched Enterprise for awhile but didn't really get into it. 

Since then I have always watched reruns of all the shows (original series included) when they were available and get Next Gen and Voyager currently on dvd from Netflix.

Favorite Characters: 

Original Series: Doctor McCoy, hands down. 
Next Gen: I liked Tasha while she lasted, but I think Data is my favorite.
Deep Space 9: Probably Bashir. This show was a little dark for me. I did grow fond of Ezri Dax.
Voyager: Tom Paris, the Doctor, Captain Janeway, in that order.
Enterprise: such a dismal disappointment, but I liked Hoshi when she was given screen time which wasn't often.


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## Illuin

Patrick Stewart is the reason Star Trek became huge. He is the reason Star Trek went from being “moderately popular” to being warped into the stratosphere! Kirk, Spock, Data, McCoy, Scotty, Riker, Chekov, Worf, Jorde were all incredible, but Picard brought to life an in-depth character that can not be duplicated. No cinema or TV can ever replace the unique magic of Star Trek (especially “The Next Generation”). One viewing of the episode “*The Inner Light*” will convert all naysayers.


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## Illuin

GILLIAN: What's that?
KIRK: What's what?
GILLIAN: You have a pocket pager? ...Are you a doctor?
(Kirk's communicator beeps again)
KIRK: What is it? I thought I told you not to call me.
SCOTT (on communicator): Sorry, Admiral. I thought you'd like to know, we're beaming them in now.

KIRK: Oh, all right. ...Tell Them phasers on stun. Good luck. Kirk out (Kirk smiles casually).

Classic unparalleled cinema there. Just precious .


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## Ithrynluin

I used to watch Voyager at times when I had nothing better to do and it was quite good. 

A couple of months ago, I wanted to get into a new sci fi show and I decided on The Next Generation. I watched about half of season one and stopped watching. It had its moments and some interesting episodes, but there were also some that were abysmally bad. I hate leaving things unfinished, so I might pick it up again. Many shows have slow or dull first seasons, so hopefully this, too, will get better.


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## chrysophalax

Ah, youth!

I'm from the Dark Ages, when Star Trek first came on the air...and I hated it! It wasn't until I was in my teens and they were in reruns that I actually sat down and watched it with an impartial eye. "Journey to Babel" was the first episode I saw and from then on, I was hooked. I bought all of James Blish's adaptations, The Making of Star Trek by Gene Roddenberry and many of the novels that came thereafter. I have made models of the Enterprise (the NCC 1701), Spock being attacked by a hydra and the Galileo. I have James Doohan's autograph and John de Lancie's (love me some Q!) And yes, I even have Leonard Nimoy's album "Mr. Spock's Music From Outer Space". Trust me, there's a reason it didn't sell that well!

As a side note; if no one's read "Believe" by WIlliam Shatner, you should. It's very well written IMHO. It's about a meeting between Houdini and Arthur Conan Doyle and as I am passionate about both Sherlock Homes and Mr. Houdini, this was the book for me. It did not disappoint.

As to the series' that have followed, the only one I really watched faithfully was NextGen, and even then it was a bit hard to swallow the first season (beardless Riker. ACK!) Patrick Stewart is amazing, as is Brent Spiner. The two of them made that show for me.

The movies have varies from the sublime to the ridiculous, but the hard-core Trekker, we'll queue up to see just about anything that bears the Star Trek label. Which is as it should be.

Also, I think Galaxy Quest was one of the most brilliant parodies I've ever seen. _Never give up! Never surrender!_ (couldn't help myself) 

Alan Rickman, you go! You are in a class by yourself!


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## Illuin

> by Ithrynluin
> _A couple of months ago, I wanted to get into a new sci fi show and I decided on The Next Generation. I watched about half of season one and stopped watching._


 
That’s where you went wrong. The first two seasons (except for a few “Q” episodes) are lame; I had almost given up myself. But then, and I have no idea how it happened; season three came out of nowhere at warp speed. It was almost as if they had completely changed writers or something (though they didn’t) and it was a different show. From season three forward, there are no bad episodes; they are either good, or spectacular; but never bad. If you ever decide to get back into TNG, start in season three. If you must watch the first two seasons, I’ll fill you in on the four or five good episodes from those seasons; but then just skip to season three and beyond. I think you’ll be surprised; and realize TNG is the gem of the franchise; even surpassing the original. DSN and Voyager were OK, but usually way too slow for me. TNG was more like the original; only with good actors  and good special effects.



> by chrysophalax
> I even have Leonard Nimoy's album "Mr. Spock's Music From Outer Space". Trust me, there's a reason it didn't sell that well!


 
Is this why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04


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## Ithrynluin

> The first two seasons (except for a few “Q” episodes) are lame



That's just what the problem is. Why do some shows (and I'm not saying TNG is in this category) get to get away with a first or even second season that is pure ****, but all the best stuff gets cancelled long before?



P.S.: I trust you enough, Illuin, to give TNG another chance.  Not looking forward to plowing through the rest of season 1 and season2, though. And no, I won't skip them, as I'm a bit obsessive compulsive.


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## Illuin

> by Ithrynluin
> _And no, I won't skip them, as I'm a bit obsessive compulsive._


 
I have that myself . But these are not shows that have to be watched in chronological order like a soap opera. Most of the time they are not even related. But just in case you change your mind, here are my recommendations for the first two seasons. 

Season I:
"*Encounter at Farpoint"*
*"Where No One Has Gone Before"*
*"Hide and Q"*
*"Conspiracy"*

Season II:
*"The Measure of a Man"*
*"Q Who?"* (This episode kicks some serious butt!)


Also, if you need a kick start, Episode 25 of Season 5- called: “*The Inner Light*” will demonstrate why you should give it another shot .


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## Halasían

Ah yes... 
*Star Trek.* Watched the original series when it first aired because my big sis had a crush on Spock and was glad they brought the series back with William Shatner as Kirk. The first time it showed was the pilot with Jeffry Hunter as Capt. Pike, and Spock the Vulcan was cast differently. They used much of this episode in the original series two part 'Managerie' epiodes. Of course being a pre-adolescent male, I liked Yeoman Janice Rand (Grace Lee Whitney) and the short skort outfits the women wore. I thought the best main character was Scotty.

*TNG* came along and they tried to "correct" all the old stereotypes from the original series, like giving the women actual uniforms and trying to show Worf and his Klingon ways off in the Federation. After a few episodes, I quit watching it. I did pick it up a bit later and enjoyed some of the later episodes, of which I thought Riker thinking he was going nuts in Frame of Mind was the best. I come to like Riker, Worf, and O'Brien the best of all the characters, and Picard was alright beginning with the Borg encounters. Yar... She was ok but made a bad career move by quitting and being killed off in hopes to not become typecast. Too bad you need to know how to act to get other parts. I think they spent some goo dwriting talent trying to bring her back in all through the series.. either in alternate timeline, a sister, and even a Romulan.

*DS9*.... have to say I liked this series better than TNG in that it took two of my fav characters from TNG and mad ethem main characters in this series... Worf and O'Brien. I liked Sisko and Quark and Dax, and the intriguing webs made later. They had some great battle CGI too. Sure, some of it was cheesy and soapy, but much wasn't. I though tthe whole 'port-of'call' setting worked in contrast to the previous setting of the Enterprise hurtling through space breaking the prime directive.

*Voyager*... What can I say... it was an interesting concept, and they had a lot to draw on. Of course Jeri Ryan as 7of 9 was a prime attraction, but I liked Chakoty in this. I thought Janeway was ok but I couldn't stand the sound of her voice!

*Enterprise* ... the less said the better.

Then there were all the movies... in a title : The Wrath of Khan!

I do say I'm quite curious about the new, post-Enterprise but pre-original series with young Kirk, Spock, etc. JJ Abrahms is doing it and I hope he gets it right. I wont hold my breath...


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## Illuin

> by Halasían
> _DS9.... have to say I liked this series better than TNG_


 
Ouch! Well OK. I certainly disagree. As far as DS9, the cast was (to say the least) not top notch, the writing was OK, but definitely not on the same level. Also, I think that is where the writers and producers lost touch. They forgot that “_the cast_” is what makes a series successful. Of course great writing is required, but if the talent is lacking, forget about it. Give me a break; _TNG_ is the reason Star Trek became a phenomenon. It was so well done that people viewed the original series in an entirely different perspective. It’s obvious some of you folks haven’t actually fully experienced _The Next Generation_. It's so similar to those who have only watched the LoTR film trilogy; but have never read the books. DS9?....are you kidding me? Come on!


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## Firawyn

Ohhh....I own this this thread! Yay Trek!

Okay, 

TOS - Havn't worked my way through the whole series. I like it, but I started my Trek addiction on TNG, and can't quite get past the TOS Klingons. I like Warf too much.

TNG - I think I have these more or less memorized. Season one, I loved Tasha Yar. Season two, I liked the development on Deanna Troy, and I did like Dr. Palowski, even though I am I die hard Dr. Crusher fan. Season three, was good, four was good, five was good, six was good, seven was good. I think that the first two seasons can be hard to swollow because the cast was large, and they didn't do enough character development. Hummm. Q rocks. Loved Guinan. I think overall, my favorite character was Dr. Crusher. My all time favorite episode was the one in season seven that Dr. Crusher and Cpt. Picard get thier minds linked together. It was just so good. 

I've only watch a little bit of the other series, but of those, DS9 is the best. Mostly because I get to see Worf. Yay!


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## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _I am I die hard Dr. Crusher fan._


 

Ah yes, so am I . I love the tall redheads . But Picard, Data, Worf, and Riker will never be topped. If the writers and producers stopped after *"All Good Things";* TNG would rival *Lord of The Rings*. But they crapped out, and tried to milk it. Such a shame. DS9 and Voyager were just a load of overdramatic superficial crapola. They blew it! Just as George Lucas did .

PS - Don't (folks like Halasían) diss TNG with me (unless you want a serious battle). I’ll bury you! This is _sacred ground_; so be prepared  (just playing). However, this may be a good thread. We need some fire here; don't you think ?


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## HLGStrider

I'm still going to defend Voyager. I like Janeway's voice, but that's mainly because she really really reminds me of Kathryn Hepburn, and you can't go wrong with that. And Tom Paris . . . .

That said, in watching an episode a bit ago, "Day of Honor," I found myself feeling sorry for the actors because they had this dramatic character building episode with possibly the worst dialogue ever. It was painfully bad. I find that to be the exception rather than the norm, but where Voyager writing is bad, it is really bad. What made it worse what that Tom Paris was delivering the lines. . . sigh.

I would argue that the characters in Voyager are maybe more interesting and go through much more defined character archs than in TNG. Most notably, the Doctor, Tom (sigh...), and 7. Even the characters that are kind of annoying (Go away, Neelix, please) are intriguing in their own way. The exception being Kes. Jennifer Lien had a lot of potential as an actress, but the part of Kes was so over worked that it just fizzled out, too ideal, I guess. There is an episode called "Warlord" that has Kes being taken over by another personality and her work in that is really intriguing. I couldn't take my eyes off the character. 

The Q episodes are also a lot of fun. Q has a much more serious context within TNG. While he still maintains his struggle with power, ie what rights he has to mess with other species, the struggle is fun in Voyager. Especially Q2, where his son snaps off 7's clothes . . . and possibly my favorite scene where Janeway says, "Computer, coffee, black." and gets the response "Make it yourself. . ."

My favorite episode I really can't remember the name of. I want to say it was "Someone to Watch Over Me" or some Gershwin song title, but it was the one where the Doctor tries to teach 7 to date. I still love to use the Tom Paris line from that "Hey! Who deleted my pool table?" Also "Author, Author" when the Doctor writes an unflattering holo-novel about the crew then Tom edits it . . . I'm getting carried away. 

I've seen a lot of Voyager. 

DS9 was a little too convoluted for me to defend. 

Don't get me started on George Lucas, btw. I watched _Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of Ridiculously Unbelievable CGI Inter-dimensional Alien Zombies From Mars_ last night and I am still smarting. Where oh where did Lawrence Kasdan go? My absolute favorite screenwriter (I haven't seen everything he's done, but he has writen several movies in my top ten . . . _Silverado, Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark_) . The really sad thing is when I was 12 or so I tried to write my own Indiana Jones movie. It also happened in South America (They were hunting Nazi war criminals), it also involved him meeting a son he didn't know about it, and it was a heck of a lot more believable (from what I remember. The notebook with this venture is long gone) than the movie I saw last night. Evil George Lucas for ruining my childhood hero with that movie.


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## chrysophalax

Gah and argh! Janeway...*shudders* Her voice sounds like a three pack-a-day smoker's....ick. Why they decided to reincarnate Kirk in a female's body I'll never know! *snickers, recalling being the only one in the theatre that said "Yes!" when Kirk died.*

As to DS9, I think it was described best by a TV Guide critic as "Lust in Space".

TNG and a few of the original episodes are sci-fi classics never to be topped, IMO.


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## Illuin

> by chrysophalax
> _TNG and a few of the original episodes are sci-fi classics never to be topped, IMO._


 

INDEED!!! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBTRp80Q64U


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## Firawyn

Illuin - I think I could have some pretty intense debates with you regarding TNG. _

BEFORE_ TNG I was an Earl Grey Drinker, and now every time anyone asks me if I want something to drink, I reply "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot." The classic Picard line.

Hummm...what are some of your favorite TNG lines? I think Picard had the best one liners for the most part. Here are some of my favorite quotes. (and yes, I am an IMDB junkie)

_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: Mr. Worf, do you remember your zero g combat training? 
_Lt. Commander Worf_: I remember how it made me sick to my stomach. 


[_Picard puts his hand on the Phoenix_] 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: It's a boyhood fantasy... I must have seen this ship hundreds of times in the Smithsonian but I was never able to touch it. 
_Lieutenant Commander Data_: Sir, does tactile contact alter your perception of the Phoenix? 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: Oh, yes! For humans, touch can connect you to an object in a very personal way, make it seem more real. 
[_Data also puts his hand on The Phoenix_] 
_Lieutenant Commander Data_: I am detecting imperfections in the titanium casing... temperature variations in the fuel manifold... it is no more "real" to me now than it was a moment ago. 
_Cmdr. Deanna Troi_: [_observing from a catwalk_] Would you three like to be alone? 


_Capt. Picard_: We are what we are. And we're doing the best we can. It is not for you to set the standards by which we shall be judged! 
_Q_: Oh, but it is, and we have. Time may be eternal, Captain, but our patience is not. It's time to put an end to your trek through the stars; make room for other more worthy species. 
_Capt. Picard_: You're going to deny us... travel through space? 
[_the courtroom erupts in laughter_] 
_Q_: You obtuse piece of flotsam! You're to be denied *existence*. Humanity's fate has been sealed: you will be destroyed. 

_Capt. Picard_: Q, what is going on? 
_Q_: I told you. You're dead, this is the afterlife, and I'm God. 
_Capt. Picard_: [_laughs scornfully_] You are not God! 
_Q_: Blasphemy! You're lucky I don't cast you out, or smite you, or something. The bottom line is, your life ended about five minutes ago under the inept ministrations of Dr. Beverly Crusher. 
_Capt. Picard_: No, I am not dead. Because I refuse to believe that the afterlife is run by you. The universe is not so badly designed. 

_Capt. Picard_: Starfleet is not an organization that ignores its own regulations when they become inconvenient. 

_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: Ambassador, with great respect for all that you have achieved on behalf of the Federation, this sort of... cowboy diplomacy, will not easily be tolerated anymore. 
_Ambassador Spock_: "Cowboy diplomacy"? 

_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: From the moment I met you, I knew you were gonna be trouble. 
_Vash_: You look like a man who can handle trouble. 

_Joval_: The Horga'hn is the Risian symbol of sexuality. To own one is to call forth its powers. To display it is to announce you are seeking jamaharon. 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: [_exasperated_] Riker! 
_Joval_: Do you seek jamaharon? 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: I don't even know what it means. The Horga'hn is for a friend. 
_Joval_: I see. Someone close to you? 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: That's right. 
_Joval_: Someone you love? 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: I wouldn't go that far. 

_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: Yes, Ensign Laren, please sit down. 
_Ensign Ro Laren_: Ensign Ro, sir. 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: I beg your pardon? 
_Ensign Ro Laren_: The Bajoran custom has the family name first, the individual's name second. I am properly addressed as 'Ensign Ro'. 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: I'm sorry, I didn't know. 
_Ensign Ro Laren_: No, there's no reason you should. It's an old custom. Most Bajora these days accept the distortion of their names in order to assimilate. I do not. 

_Computer_: Ten seconds to auto-destruct. 
_Commander William T. Riker_: [_worried_] Captain? 
_Capt. Picard_: Abort auto-destruct sequence! 
_Computer_: Riker, William T., do you concur? 
_Commander William T. Riker_: Yes, absolutely, I do indeed concur wholeheartedly! 
_Computer_: Auto-destruct canceled. 
[_everyone breathes a huge sigh of relief_] 
_Capt. Picard_: A simple "yes" would have sufficed, Number One. 
_Commander William T. Riker_: I didn't want there to be any chance of misunderstanding. 

[_the crew are transformed into characters from Robin Hood_] 
_Doctor Beverly Crusher_: If he's Little John, that's makes you... 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: I know. Robin Hood. 
_Lieutenant Worf_: Sir, I protest. I am *not* a merry man! 


_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: I've just been paid a visit from Q. 
_Commander William T. Riker_: Q? Any idea what he's up to? 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: He wants to do something "nice" for me. 
_Commander William T. Riker_: I'll alert the crew. 

_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: Mr. La Forge, my reputation as a litigator, not to mention my immortal soul, is in serious jeopardy. 

_Doctor Beverly Crusher_: A penny. 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: What? 
_Doctor Beverly Crusher_: For your thoughts; penny for your thoughts. 
_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: Do you have one? 
_Doctor Beverly Crusher_: I'm sure the replicator will have one on file. 

_Capt. Picard_: Return that moon to its orbit. 
_Q_: I have no powers - Q the ordinary. 
_Capt. Picard_: Q the liar; Q the misanthrope! 
_Q_: Q the miserable, Q the desperate! What must I do to convince you? 
_Lieutenant Worf_: Die. 
_Q_: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately? 

_Captain Jean-Luc Picard_: I must be out of my mind. 
_Doctor Pulaski_: Starfleet will probably agree with you. 


YIKES - I think I got carried away. That wasn't even half of what IMDB had on file. Sorry.  Enjoy! 

And who , besides me, thinks that Vash was the best thing to ever happen to Picard?! I cannot get anyone to see my point on view on this!


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## Illuin

by Firawyn


> _Capt. Picard: Q, what is going on? _
> _Q: I told you. You're dead, this is the afterlife, and I'm God. _
> _Capt. Picard: [laughs scornfully] You are not God! _
> _Q: Blasphemy! You're lucky I don't cast you out, or smite you, or something._
> 
> _Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Ambassador, with great respect for all that you have achieved on behalf of the Federation, this sort of... cowboy diplomacy, will not easily be tolerated anymore. _
> 
> _Ambassador Spock: "Cowboy diplomacy"?_


 
Well, there won’t be much of a debate, because those are some of my favorite lines as well. We think alike I think; I will add a few:

_Picard: I'll look forward to your report, Mr Broccoli. Barclay._
_Picard: I refuse to believe that the afterlife is run by you, Q. The universe is not so badly designed!_

I actually have a list that would more than likely cause the forum to crash (technologically - at least until RAM and hard drives are well into the petabytes ).


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## Firawyn

Illuin said:


> I actually have a list that would more than likely cause the forum to crash (technologically - at least until RAM and hard drives are well into the petabytes ).



Haha!!  I could just upload the entire IMDB onto TTF - that would help TTF crash! (however, we don't want that, do we?)

I think of my favorite Riker scenes was the episode that begins with Riker in sickbay and Dr. Crusher lecturing him about how he's not young anymore and can't go doing this and that...and it turns out that it was Spot...Data's cat! 

Speaking of Spot, anyone notice that Spot is a male throughout the entire series until the episode where they all "de-evolve", and Spot has kittens?

Elgee, I should think you would have observed that.



OH! Illuin, ever read the Nitpicker's Guide to Star Trek TNG?

Hail the link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0440505712/?tag=r-r-20

(That's to volume 2, but volume 1 didn't have a picture! )


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## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _I think of my favorite Riker scenes was the episode that begins with Riker in sickbay and Dr. Crusher lecturing him about how he's not young anymore and can't go doing this and that...and it turns out that it was Spot...Data's cat!_


 
No way! The best Riker scene was in *"Future Imperfect"*:


*RIKER: What's the problem? *
*LAFORGE: I've had to shut down the warp engines, Captain. *
*RIKER: Why? *
*LAFORGE: Antimatter containment fields are fluctuating. It's nothing to worry about though. *
*RIKER: We're on the edge of the Neutral Zone on impulse power, and you're not concerned? *
*LAFORGE: I'll have the engines back online in no time, sir. *
*RIKER: Like you tracked down that faulty processing accelerator? *
_*LAFORGE: I'm running a level one diagnostic. *_
*RIKER: For thirty hours? It would never take you more than four. You're incapable of that level of incompetence, Mister La Forge. Worf, where did you get that scar? *
*WORF: In combat. *
*RIKER: What battle? When? Which sector? Which unit? Mister Data, if we left immediately, when would we arrive at Outpost twenty three? *
*DATA: At warp one, in three days, four hours. *
*RIKER: How about at warp seven? At warp eight? At warp nine? What's the matter, Data? What happened to those millions of calculations per second? *
*DATA: Pardon me, sir. I am experiencing subspace interference which limits my abilities. I can't operate as quickly as *
*RIKER: What did you say? *
*DATA: I said I cannot operate *
*RIKER: No! That's not what you said. You said I can't. You used a contraction, didn't you? *
*DATA: Sir, I can explain if you would just give me a moment. *
*RIKER: No you can't. Don't even try. *

*PICARD: Captain, perhaps it would be best if we discussed this...*
*RIKER: Shut up! *
*PICARD: I beg your pardon? *
*RIKER: I said, shut up! As in close your mouth and stop talking!*



> by Firawyn
> _And who , besides me, thinks that Vash was the best thing to ever happen to Picard?! I cannot get anyone to see my point on view on this!_


 

Well, it was definitely a good thing, but “the best” thing that ever happened to Picard was that he lived another life (a full lifetime). In "*The* *Inner Light"* (even though it was only realized in his spirit and thought), he experienced a life he had abandoned. He had a full, rich, satisfying life with a wife and children. He learned to appreciate the “other side” of life (in it’s entirety). As sad as it was finding out it wasn’t “technically” real (though in actuality it was; he still knew those tunes on the flute), he was still able to fully experience a life he chose to forsake as a Starfleet Captain. That was “the best” thing.


Hey Fir, what are your favorite episodes (in order …It’s an OCD thing )? Here are my favorites. This might also benefit members who have missed out, and are curious. 

*The Inner Light - *
*Best of Both Worlds (I & II)*

_The above are even better than ANY of the Star Trek motion pictures, from any series._

*Yesterday’s Enterprise*
*Tapestry*
*Q Who*
*All Good Things*
*The Nth Degree*
*Family*
*Parallels*
*Remember Me*
*Deja Q*
*Sarek*
*Cause and Effect*


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## Firawyn

The Naked Now - "Data...it never happened." (Tasha Yar)

The Child - (Gotta love it when the new staff member interrupts Picard!)

The Measure of a Man - (A MUST SEE!)

Captain's Holiday - (I love Vash)

Suddenly Human - (I don't know why, I just really liked this one.)

Reunion - (This is where Worf got interesting to me)

Identity Crisis - (another one I don't know why, just loved)

Qpid - (Q and Vash in one episode! It was just beautiful!)

Ensign Ro - (Ro is my favorite character...period. In all of all Star Trek. She reminds me way too much of myself)

Ethics - (Alot of good character development in this one. Plus it kind of starts off the Worf/Troy thing, of which I am a big fan of.)

I, Borg - (Easily one of the best. Just...best.)

Relics - (Scotty! "N-C-C-1-7-0-1. No bloody A - B - C - or D!")

Rascals - ("I bet you were a jumper!")

Timescape - (I love the scene when Picard drawls the smily face in the wap core breech )

Dark Page - (Prior to seeing this, I really didn't like Mrs. Troy. Afterward, I was able to enjoy her in other episodes) 

Eye of the Beholder - (Like I said, big fan of the Worf/Troy thing!)

Bloodlines - ("Well one thing's for certain. You'll never look at your hair line the same again." - Picard)

Preamtive Strike - (I cried in this episode. Like a baby. I totally understood how Ro was feeling. Like I said, if you wanna good look at my personality in real life...look at Ro)




Well...there's the top 18!


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## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _Identity Crisis - (another one I don't know why, just loved)_


 
What’s not to love? Remember when Geordi came into the transporter room as a chameleon creature thing in disguise? That was freaking spooky (and awesome)!



> Qpid - (Q and Vash in one episode! It was just beautiful!)


 
Another classic (I loved how Q became so intrigued with Vash).



> I, Borg - (Easily one of the best. Just...best.)


 
Well, there is no need to explain here. Incredible episode.

*"We are Third of Five ."*

*Picard*: You are Borg. You will assist us. 
*Hugh*: I will not. 
*Picard*: What did you say? 
*Hugh*: I... will not... assist you. 
*Picard*: I? 
*Hugh*: Geordi must not be assimilated. 
*Picard*: But you are Borg. 
*Hugh*: No. I am Hugh.


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## Firawyn

Illuin said:


> *Picard*: You are Borg. You will assist us.
> *Hugh*: I will not.
> *Picard*: What did you say?
> *Hugh*: I... will not... assist you.
> *Picard*: I?
> *Hugh*: Geordi must not be assimilated.
> *Picard*: But you are Borg.
> *Hugh*: No. I am Hugh.



This was a very touching scene. I think it was really great that later...it was a two part episode but I can't recall the name off the top of my head...in the episode that Lore "rescued" the Borg and Hugh returned...and helped them for Geordie's sake. YAY Geordie! 


Humm...okay, here's one for you - the episode that Dr. Crusher gets seduced by Rowan the Ghost...was that not seriously creepy seeing the grandmother pop out of the casket...I freakin screamed!


----------



## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _Humm...okay, here's one for you - the episode that Dr. Crusher gets seduced by Rowan the Ghost...was that not seriously creepy seeing the g_
> _randmother pop out of the casket...I freakin screamed! _


 

That was called_ "Sub Rosa";_ and yes; that was very spooky. Wes Craven should take some lessons from the TNG writers when it comes to horror. 

Another really disturbing episode was called_ "__Schisms";_ where those creepy aliens from another dimension performed those medical experiments on the crew…and the Enterprise crew didn’t (and couldn't) catch them! Yikes! That was freaky; gave me the willies.


----------



## chrysophalax

And then, of course, we have all the great McCoy lines: 

" Damn it, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a/an *insert occupation here*!" 

I used to just wait for those one-liners to come along!

My favourite was in the episode with the Horta. Loved that thing!


----------



## Illuin

> by chrysophalax
> _"Damn it, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a/an *insert occupation here*!"_


 

I must admit, I am guilty. My dear friend Norm and I had an acoustic gig in Lake Tahoe in the late 80's; playing the CSN, James Taylor, Grateful Dead, Paul Simon thing. Whenever a drunk would request (scream) something outlandish (like; "Play Iron Maiden!"); I would say; Damn it; Jim, I’m a doctor, not a musician! It was always a crowd pleaser .


----------



## Firawyn

Okay, who do you think was the best developed character on TNG?

I'm voting on Worf...followed by young Mr. Crusher, then Geordie. 


_Alexander Rozhenko_: Where are the other Klingons? 
_Lieutenant Worf_: There are no others on board. 
_Alexander Rozhenko_: Why? 
_Lieutenant Worf_: The Federation and the Klingon Empire were enemies for many years. No other Klingons have asked to serve in Starfleet. 
_Alexander Rozhenko_: Why? 
_Lieutenant Worf_: A warrior does not ask so many questions! 

I think my favorite Wes episode was _The Naked Now_. Hummm...I think that was my favorite Tasha episode...and Data...I really love that one. 

*Capt. Picard*: Take us... 
*Commander William T. Riker*: Are you all right, sir? 
*Capt. Picard*: Worf - you do know what to do. Take us, er... 
*Commander William T. Riker*: Take us out of here! 
*Capt. Picard*: Right. 


*Lt. Tasha Yar*: Data! I'm only going to tell you this just once: it never happened!


----------



## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _Okay, who do you think was the best developed character on TNG?_


 
I think Worf’s character really exploded in the latter seasons. He was the focus of many classic episodes. My favorite being *Rightful Heir* (the episode where Worf questions his faith when Kahless rises from the dead to lead the Empire). The *Redemption* episodes are amazing as well. However, we all have our favorites, but the most developed character was of course Picard. The entire series was basically written for Patrick Stewart. And rightly so; he’s by far the most gifted actor the entire franchise was ever so lucky to employ. When Picard is going though the most unimaginable torment when he mind-melds with Sarek, that’s where his genius as an actor can plainly be seen. I thought Wesley’s development was cut short. He was finally getting older and wiser, but they kind of put him on the back burner. Geordi was always great, as was Riker. Data; well nothing needs to be said here. He was right up there with Picard as far as being responsible for the success of the series. I thought the minor development of Barclay was a nice touch. Dwight Schultz is a great actor, and I’m glad he was given a few of his own episodes. *The Nth Degree* is in my top ten (maybe five). 


*Barclay*: "I don't agree. We could repair all of the reactors, simultaneously, instead of 'one-by-one'." 
*Picard*: "'Simultaneously? All eighteen?" 
*Barclay*: "Yes." 
*LaForge*: "But the Argus computer is inoperable" 
*Barclay*: "Not entirely. The core memory is still intact. We could program a completely new control system." 
*Data*: "An interesting suggestion, Lieutenant. However, that approach would require more time than our original plan. At least seven weeks." 
*Barclay*: "I could have it ready for you in two days." 
*Riker*: "What?!"


----------



## Firawyn

Yeah, Barclay is my bf's favorite character. 

My favorite Barvlay line is:

"As I've finally become the person I've always wanted to be - do we have to ask why?" 

OR

_Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge_: Reg, ever since our run with that probe, something's different about you. 
_Barclay_: What? Because I'm beginning to behave like the rest of the crew? With confidence at what I'm doing? 
_Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge_: You just spent the entire night arguing grand unification theories with Albert Einstein! 


I really liked his development as well. Didn't he go on to Voyager?


----------



## HLGStrider

There was a fun episode with a Barclay hologram attempting to kidnap 7 of 9, so, yeah, he was on Voyager.


----------



## Illuin

> _by Firawyn_
> _*Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge*: Reg, ever since our run with that probe, something's different about you. _
> _*Barclay*: What? Because I'm beginning to behave like the rest of the crew? With confidence at what I'm doing? _
> _*Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge*: You just spent the entire night arguing grand unification theories with Albert Einstein! _


 


*Einstein*: "G, Sub-I, J, of T, as T approaches infinity. Hmm?" 
*Barclay*: "G, of T, over G-Not." 
*Einstein*: So it is! So it is!" 
*Barclay*: "But I still don't see how you're going to incorporate quantum principle into general relativity, without increasing the 
cosmological constant a lot more than you're doing here." 
*Einstein*: "But if we increase the value, as you suggest, then we face the possibility of twenty-six dimensions instead of ten." 
_*Barclay*:_ "I don't think I could deal with that." 
*Einstein*: "I certainly could not. 
*Barclay*: "If the semi-set curved into the subatomic, the infinities might cancel each other out!" 
*Einstein*: "Good Scott! They just might!"





Great stuff!


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Shatner's been grumpy ever since his character finally died ("Oh my!"). Nimoy got to do another run with Spock in the latest movie, and they offered The Shat (a dangerous name -- look what happens if you change one letter) a cameo in it, but it wasn't enough for him. R.I.P. Kirk, old boy -- be satisfied with doing Denny Crane, that's the role of your life, Shat, enjoy it!

Gene Roddenberry would die and go to heaven all over again if he could see the way this franchise just shows no signs of giving up!

Barley


----------



## Firawyn

Haha! All very true. 

I have to say, Shatner and is acting as Kirk was one thing, and everything else I've seen him in a, more or less, plays an idiot!

Have you seen him in "Miss Congeniality"? I about died! (Granted, I love that movie, but that's because I'm madly in love with Sandra Bullock, and always charmed by Michael Caine. But for Shatner's part...it was a very poor act for the likes of the great Captain Kirk! 

Maybe that marks Shatner as a good actor, but I just can't believe he accepted a moronic roll like that.


----------



## HLGStrider

While not a big fan of Shatner himself I kind of like the fact that a lot of his roles are parodies of himself. I have a big weakness for the whole Moon Base scene in Airplane II. . . I can't give you the exact quotes but there is that part where he freaks out about the blinking lights (reminds me a bit of the scene where McCoy is giving him a physical and doesn't tell him about the red alert going on "If I jumped every time a light went on on this ship . . ."), the part where he asks the ensign dude what some technical thing does, "We have discovered sir that it has red lights that go this way. . ." "Well, keep working on it, it must do something." 

Etc.

Maybe I'll try and look up the quotes later, but they are a lot funnier in context. I know, that movie is full of really awful humor, but it's oh so brain numbingly quotable. 

I also like the WoW commericals, but that's just me. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7Fs7IpNVCo

I'm HLGStrider and I'm a mage . . .



*Buck Murdock*: Oh, cut the bleeding heart ****, will ya? We've all got our switches, lights, and knobs to deal with, Striker. I mean, down here there are literally hundreds and thousands of blinking, beeping, and flashing lights, blinking and beeping and flashing - they're *flashing* and they're *beeping*. I can't stand it anymore! They're *blinking* and *beeping* and *flashing*! Why doesn't somebody pull the plug! 

*Buck Murdock*: We'd better get to the tower, Lieutenant. 
*Lt. Pervis*: We have no tower, sir. 
*Buck Murdock*: No tower? 
*Lt. Pervis*: Just a bridge, sir. 
*Buck Murdock*: Why the *hell* aren't I notified about these things?


----------



## Illuin

They'll hit our atmosphere in three minutes. How do you want to play it?

*Buck Murdock:* "I want a 6-foot trench dug around the base. Fill it with gasoline.

Get women and children to the shelters.

Contact the Japanese ambassador.

Rorshack, get me a complete file on everyone who's seen The Sound Of Music more than four times.

On second thought, kill those orders.

Down scope."


----------



## Starbrow

I saw a Vulcan today trick-or-treating.
My favorite series is TNG. I liked most of the characters and its later seasons were definately better than the first one.
I also really liked Capt. Janeway on Voyager - pretty much the only character I liked.
I thought there were some good episodes in Enterprise.


----------



## Firawyn

A little old for trick or treating, arn't you Starbrow?


----------



## Starbrow

My children won't share their candy with me, so where else am I supposed to get it.


----------



## Firawyn

*blinks unbelieving*

Uh....you're a grown-up, you have a job I assume, you can _buy it_?


----------



## Starbrow

> Uh....you're a grown-up, you have a job I assume, you can buy it?



Where's the fun in that?


----------



## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _*blinks unbelieving*_
> _Uh....you're a grown-up, you have a job I assume, you can buy it?_


 
Fir, you think that’s bad? Star is so sympathetic to her own children. I however am worse off with my 9 cats (and five extra strays). They rule my life. You have no idea; they call the shots. $400.00 a month in feeding costs. It’s worse than having kids; God help me!! None of those little fur balls would ever buy me candy.


----------



## Firawyn

There's a bumper sticker: Pets enrich our lives.

I firmly believe that. I miss not having pet. Which is why I work at a Kennel.

Okay Star...you got me!


----------



## Halasían

Hey Illuin, I wasn't "dissing" your beloved TNG, just expressing my opinion. Its a fact that I gained more satisfaction watching new episodes of DS9 every week than I ever did watching new episodes of TNG. Take it as you will. 

I can't believe Nobody but me is even interested in the new upcoming movie. That will be interesting.


----------



## Firawyn

Halasían said:


> I can't believe Nobody but me is even interested in the new upcoming movie. That will be interesting.



I'm very interested in the upcoming movie, mind you. I am, however very skeptical. Changing cast members to play characters can be really bad. I've only ever seen one movie that had alternate cast members and was still amazing, and that was "M*A*S*H". I got into the show, and fell head over heals in love with Allen Alda, and then I watched the movie with Donald Sutherland as Hawkeye, and was very surprised that it was equally good. Other than that (recent example was the Mummy 3, changing the casting for Evie) they've been...*shudders* let's just say it was nowhere near impressive.


----------



## Illuin

> by Halasían
> _Hey Illuin, I wasn't "dissing" your beloved TNG, just expressing my opinion. Its a fact that I gained more satisfaction watching new episodes of DS9 every week than I ever did watching new episodes of TNG. Take it as you will. _
> 
> _I can't believe Nobody but me is even interested in the new upcoming movie. That will be interesting._


 
Ha! I was just messing with you. Whenever anyone says a series is better than my TNG, I’m like: _*"Whachoo talkin' 'bout, Willis"?*_ Don't worry, I’m never serious, but I do revel in a little instigation when I’m bored (all in good fun of course 

). And by the way; I’m interested in the new movie as well - it's Star Trek - of course I'm interested!


----------



## HLGStrider

K, just a quick note: Even more disillusioned about Star Trek: Enterprise than I was when the series first came out and I was seriously hoping it would be good . . . not because I saw Enterprise again, but because of a Voyager I watched today.

I wouldn't call it a great episode because it involved only two characters interacting, T'Pal (T'Pol? . . . the annoying Vulcan who couldn't keep her clothes on) and Dr. What's-his-name (Flaxx, Floxx, Flak, the very unmemorable fellow), and obviously neither of them was my favorite, but the plot was interesting so it stuck in my head and if I had to list the best Enterprise episodes, it is probably third on the list (First being the one where Hoshi disappeared due to a transporter accident which was really intriguing up until they spoiled it by it being all a dream, second being the time ship they discovered with the corpse in it where they kept on getting stuck in loops . . .) and it is a very very short list of good Enterprise episodes (I stopped watching that series very early in its existence, btw), anyway, rambling . . . drinks her coffee tries to find her track.

K, the basic idea behind this episode was that the crew had to go into stasis because the human physiology was not equipped to deal with radiation in a specific part of space and it would cause halucinations etc. Only the Dr. and T'Pol are supposedly immune because they are not human so they run the ship by themselves and partway through the doctor starts halucinating too and has to hold things together while slowly loosing his sanity. I gave this episode kudos for an interesting plot line . . . until today when I saw the Voyager episode "One." The crew of Voyager needs to journey through a nebula where the radiation is harmful to organic flesh so they are put in stasis chambers while the Doctor (hologram and so immune) and Seven (Partially Borg, immune) have to care for the ship alone for a month until Seven starts to experience ill effects because she is not used to being alone and the radiation is causing her problems. . . 

The sad thing was that the Voyager original was so much better than the Enterprise rip off that it made what had once been a good Enterprise simply a bad version of what was actually only a so so Voyager.

Now I know these shows borrow from one another. CSI, Bones, and Life all did a "Guy with two wives turns up dead, which of the wives discovered he was two timing and knocked him off" episode . . . Star Trek TNG and the original shared a lot of plot devices, such as the radiation which made people react as if they were drunk, Q vs that harpsicorde player, I forget his name, Tremain? Something like that . . . but since they are set in the same universe it makes sense that there would be some collision of phenomena and generally they explain it with a "On stardate whatever Captain Kirk did encounter a similar . . . " 

Taking a script and basically reproducing it one plot twist at a time though . . . ugh . . . it just makes me feel as if the writers on Enterprise were lazy as well as incompetant.


----------



## Illuin

Reading your entire post (very in-depth, mind you), and your wisdom regarding that very post indeed proves my theory….TNG RULES 

! Without TNG, even the original series would have been forgotten. 



> By HLGStrider
> _Star Trek TNG and the original shared a lot of plot devices, such as the radiation which made people react as if they were drunk_


 
Ahh: The incident Data cherishes above all things (Tasha Yar 

) . This indeed saved his life down the road by the way _*("The Measure of a Man")*_ . A classic indeed!


----------



## Firawyn

HLGStrider said:


> Taking a script and basically reproducing it one plot twist at a time though . . . ugh . . . it just makes me feel as if the writers on Enterprise were lazy as well as incompetant.



After reading your whole post (I agree with Illuin, very in-depth), I got to the very end of and saw the above quoted. 

I don't think they were lazy or incompetent. I think that:

A: Enterprise is the fifth Star Trek Show. Expectation are very high, and people are hard to please. 

B: Throughout the previous four series, certain "guidelines" of what is acceptable for Star Trek have been set, and that limits what the "Enterprise" crew (no pun intended there!) can do.

C: Between the Original Series and Enterprise, alot of things have changed. Alot of those involved in the beginning (including Gene Roddenberry) have retired or died, therefire the minds behind the beauty of Star Trek are MIA.

D: Our modern technology is catching up to TOS, making the Star Trek universe seem less and less exciting to us as a culture. 


I could think of more, but the point of all that is just that "Enterprise" has alot to live up to, little to work with, and point and fact, it's just as hard today as it was thirty years ago for a group of people to write, shoot, and edit a 45 minute program in seven days or less. 


PS...Not that I'm defending "Enterprise", I'm a die hard TNG freak!  Just some thoughts.


----------



## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _I could think of more, but the point of all that is just that "Enterprise" has alot to live up to, little to work with, and point and fact, it's just as hard today as it was thirty years ago for a group of people to write, shoot, and edit a 45 minute program in seven days or less._


 
I think you make some valid points; but the fact remains….it’s all about the cast; and the interaction with the cast. Scott Bakula (Captain Jonathan Archer) is not Patrick Stewart; nor Brent Spiner, Jonathan Frakes, or Michael Dorn (Worf). It’s all about the cast. Rick Berman was the writer for TNG, as well as Enterprise. What made the difference…?? brilliant acting. Voyager was good, but Stewart introduced not just “good”, but absolute greatness to the series. He is the reason the show survived and spawned satellite shows. Nothing will ever compare (Tolkien may have a shot, but he has serious competition as far as I’m concerned). TNG in my eyes is on that level or beyond. I must add something here. Viggo Mortensen, Sean Astin, Ian McKellen, and Elijah Wood are indeed some of the finest actors of our time; but compared to Patrick Stewart? No, they are babies, and indeed have a ways to go .


----------



## HLGStrider

I personally think that the characters in Enterprise also were a little more stereotypical without quite managing archetypal. If that makes any sense. The captain as the person willing to do anything for his/her ship and crew but still with a great sense of honor and pride and "Never give up, never surrender" if I may, is classic. Archer didn't really get much past the bravado part of the job. Two of the characters got caught up in parts dictated to them by accents (Malcolm has a British accent so lets make him slightly snooty and reserved . .. oh, and if we give the engineering guy a Texan accent he can be our Cowboy.).

Plus in my opinion they broke out the sexual tension too early between main characters. Then they totally spoiled the timeline with that borg episode . . . and the whole thing was less and less about discovering and exploring and more and more about political plots and people trying to destroy humanity altogether. This led to very few self-contained episodes. The majority of the stories were trying to continue on a major storyline, and I like the "let's have it wrapped up by the end of our 45 minutes" to be the norm on these shows. 

All in all it just didn't feel like Star Trek.


----------



## chrysophalax

I can see I've been away from this thread for too long when I miss Barley and Star popping in!

I completely agree with Barley's assessment of Danny Crane being Shatner's perfect role. The swarm just oozes out of him, doesn't it?

As to the new movie, I'm really bummed because I doubt I'll be able to find anyone to go with me!

And, of _course_ adults still go treat-or treating! Kids are just an excuse...please....although I always preferred staying home once the hatchlings were old enough to participate in terrorising the poor hapless vict-er, jolly kiddies that happened to find their way to our door...to quote Filch, "Ah, the screamin'!"


----------



## Firawyn

You can tell we are all nerds when we post random quotes and assume that the others will know what we mean. Elgee, that was Galaxy Quest, correct? And Chrys, the Filch reference was to Harry Potter? 

@ Illuin, 

Yes, you are quite right, the cast does make alot of an impact. Patrick Stewart is "the best of the best of the best sir!" (name that quote anyone?) Have you seen Stewart's rendition of _A Christmas Carol_ ? It was amazing.

Anyway, but do you really think that the cast is _everything_? Surely you've seen movies because you loved the actor, and were disappointed because of the writing or the shallow plot? 

And if all these actors are so amazing (which I do agree, from a Treky view, that they are), why have all of them done so little since? I've seen Michael Dorn in one or two other things (_Decent_ comes to mind), I've seen nothing else with Jonathan Frakes or Gates McFadden. Patrick Stewart did a bit more, LaVar Burton went on to do the "Reading Rainbow" TV show, Brent Spiner I've seen in _Independence Day_, but nothing else...POINT there is that if they are so amazing, why have they not done much else?


----------



## HLGStrider

I thought Burton did Rainbow around the same time he did TNG . . . but maybe reruns just have me thrown off. I remember both being on TV when I was very young. 

Frakes is directing, couple of different things, nothing big. Brent Spiner plays a lot of smaller parts in a lot of different movies, Phenomena, Master of Disguise, other things I can't name off the top of my head. I've seen various people from Voyager cross into other TV shows for short appearances. Ethan Phillips was in a Bones, Robert Picardo was in a CSI:NY. Robert Duncan McNeil is now a producer or co-producer or something like that. I saw him recently credited an episode of "Chuck" (not a show I usually watch, so I don't know if he regularly works with that show or if he just happened to be doing something on the one episode I did watch).

One of my hobbies is trying to map out which TV shows the guest stars on whatever I'm watching at the moment have been in before . . . like how Amber from House MD was in the first episode of Psych before she was replaced by the girl who plays Jules. 

Kate Mulgrew went on to do some theater and has played in a lot of movies and other TV shows but nothing recently that I know of. Tim Russ (Tuvok) was in the latest Die Hard movie. 

I don't think this is exactly atypical for TV level actors, to have one "starring" or at least "steady" tv role and then to afterwards just bounce around from show to show, or do theater, or work off camera as a director/writer/producer.


----------



## HLGStrider

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7523210.stm

This story starts out as what seems to be a silly rule and explains it so I guess the theater owner makes sense, but it is a about autograph policy at a production of Hamlet with some familiar faces in it.


----------



## Firawyn

Makes sense, but bummer all the same.


----------



## Illuin

> by Firawyn
> _Patrick Stewart is "the best of the best of the best sir!" (name that quote anyone?) _


 
"Maybe you already answered this, but, why exactly are we here? 

Son? 

Second Lieutenant, Jake Jenson. West Point. Graduate with honors. We're here because you are looking for the best of the best of the best, sir! 

Ha Ha!

What's so funny, Edwards? 

Boy, Captain America over here! "Best of the best of the best, sir!" 

"With honors." 

Yeah, he's just really excited and he has no clue why we're here."

That's very funny to me.

Y'all ain't laughing, though.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Illuin has it right: Until Patrick Stewart, Star Trek hadn't grown up yet. It just proves the old saw: A good actor playing it well and straight enough to make it believable saves even a bad part (not that any of Stewart's parts were bad).

There were other things going for it as well: the new cast, new writers, really good background musical scores, state-of-the-art special effects.

But Stewart was the galvanizing factor. STNG was my favorite of all of them with DS9 next (oh those crazy Ferengi comic relief stories!) and really juicy ongoing plots, and then STV. Most of the later original Star Treks were SO bad by comparison, and Shatner's acting was abominable, especially at the last. (He has fully redeemed himself however, with his off-the-wall Denny Crane role of a lifetime!)

Barley


----------



## HLGStrider

Goodness . . . I just watched another trailer for the new Trek movie. The first one sold my brother, the one that just showed the ship with the Spock voice over, in two seconds and he called me up just to tell me how good it was. I had seen it a little earlier (in front of Ironman, I think) and while I had liked it it didn't show me what the movie was going to be like.

This one (I'm not sure how to link it, it was a rollover banner on my facebook page but I'm sure you can find it) struck me as a little bit effects heavy (to be expected) and definitely intense, but didn't give me any plot hints or characterization hints, those are going to be the main issues. 

But . . . Goodness . . . Zachary Quinto is AMAZING casting. He looks the part. I can't believe how much he looks the part. Without looking like Nemoy, he looks like Spock, if that makes any sense. I can totally buy him in this part. 

Maybe I just have a passion for dark, scary looking men but he's kind of cute. I only started watchin Heroes this last year (my husband pulled up old seasons online and watched the first one with me all in one night and now I've been watching them as they are posted on Hulu), and his part in there was just a little bit too scary at first for me to realize he was good looking, but since they've started to humanize him as a character I've kind of gotten fond of him, and seeing him as Spock. . . Wow. . . Might have to add him as fourth or fifth on my handsome guy list. Husband is number one. My brother is somewhere in the top ten and I'm not afraid to admit it. Tom Paris, Edward Norton, the young Timothy Dalton. . . I really need to sort this list out. Anyway, side track. . .


K, where was I?

After bad mouthing a Voyager episode with bad writing (Day of Honor) a little while back, I watched an absolutely amazing one today. Actually made me cry, even though I had seen it before. The episode is "Drone." The Dr's Holo-emitter is merged with some nano-probes from 7 during a transport, creates a drone who bonds with the crew. . . etc. I rarely cry for TV shows. Once or twice for House (the episode where the baby died in season two was almost too hard to watch and the episode this season where Cuddy is trying to adopt a child. . . and is begging it not to die, "Joy. . . Joy, please cry, Joy. . ." weep), once for CSI and once for CSI:NY, both of which barely count because I was pregnant with a husband overseas at the time and the CSI:NY episode involved the murder of a Marine who was trying to return a token to a fallen comrade's fiance (could they have aimed that at me a little harder? Probably not.) . . .but I think the CSI episode with the kidnapped infant who is found dead early in the episode would've broke me even if I hadn't have been expecting. . . I tend to ramble in these posts.

Anyway, "Drone" is an amazing episode. Jeri Ryan is a very compelling actress in that her part is so toned down and scaled back that everything seems so intense without being overblown. Hard to describe.


----------



## Firawyn

You know Elgee, your thoughts used to be very organized. What has marriage and motherhood done to you!? 

I have to admit though, I was fairly impressed with the casting for the new Star Trek movie.


----------



## HLGStrider

I've always tended to ramble if I'm not discussing something "serious" in nature. You should hear me talk. . . Dr. Ransom/Lukie-poo once told me that talking with me was like having an out of the body experience, and this was before I was even dating Matt.


----------



## Illuin

> by HLGStrider
> _I watched an absolutely amazing one today. Actually made me cry, even though I had seen it before. The episode is "Drone."_


 
Ha! "_Drone_" happens to be an episode I have never erased from the TiVo for many years (like TNG’s "_The Inner Light_", "_Yesterday’s Enterprise_", and "_Best of Both Worlds_"). Awesome episode! Come on; any episode dealing with the Borg is going to be phenomenal. "_Q Who_", "_I Borg_"... I mean really; you can’t lose with that material.


----------



## chrysophalax

I agree with Elgee about Zach Quinto. He looks exactly how I expect Spock would have looked in his youth. Perfect casting! Now...if I could only find someone to go with...


----------



## Firawyn

When does it come out?


----------



## chrysophalax

Check www.imdb.com They usually have the release dates listed.


----------



## Firawyn

*rolls eyes* I _knew_ I could look there...I was just being lazy. 

*Now*that I've looked, it's May 8th, 2009 for anyone else who feels lazy. 

Gosh.


----------



## chrysophalax

Laziness is illogical. You will will assimilated. Resistance is futile.


----------



## Firawyn

No! Noooooooooo! 

_*Smashes glass and model ships with her phaser*_ 

I will not sacrifice the lazyness. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done.


----------



## Illuin

Going to see Star Trek tonight. Little bro got the tickets.


----------



## chrysophalax

Argh! It doesn't open until tomorrow night here and that's when we leave for Edinburgh. 

It sucks to be me, right?


----------



## HLGStrider

Step A. Find babysitter.
Step B. Find a friend who is a Trekky or would be willing to sit through the film without making sarcastic comments who still lives in town and isn't that "friend" who talks on the cell phone with other "friends" when you are with her which really makes you want to forget that she was the one who introduced you to Star Trek in the first place. 

Hmm. . . my brother even makes sarcastic comments at movies based on franchises he likes . . .but I do that too. . .maybe I should take him and have a sarcastic comment fest, but he's out of town this weekend.


----------



## Illuin

Because of the risk of giving away even the slightest hint of a spoiler, and because I would rather not contribute to a pre-conceived mind-set, I'll postpone a review until at least you two fellow Trekkies have seen it.


----------



## ltnjmy

I hope that Star Trek XI is good. The last few have been awful and as a Trekkie for over 30 years - that is not easy for me to say. The last good one was Star Trek VIII: First Contact.

I'm really looking forward to it. From the recent reviews that I have read/seen - the critics here in the U.S. seem to like it...

But I wish the producers would stop talking about a sequel. It opens in the US today and I feel that such talk is "jinxing" it...

Did anybody hear about the "Curse" - - every odd numbered Star Trek movie is awful... I hope that it won't apply this time


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *ltnjmy*
> _I hope that Star Trek XI is good. The last few have been awful and as a Trekkie for over 30 years - that is not easy for me to say._


 
The last two were awful? Don't you think that's overstating things just a bit? I've got over 30 hardcore Trekkie years in myself, and I enjoyed them. They weren't _The Wrath of Khan_, but they weren't bad, they just weren't great. The only Trek movie that was _'awful'_ was _Star Trek V: The Final Frontier_. Now that movie sucked; though the white bearded entity that Q imprisoned on Sha Ka Ree was pretty cool.


----------



## ltnjmy

Illuin said:


> The only Trek movie that was _'awful'_ was _Star Trek V: The Final Frontier_. Now that movie sucked.


 
You are right. Nemesis was not that bad and I have become ok with it over the years. But I could not enjoy Insurrection - the acting was too stiff.

And YES - Star Trek V was one of the worst movies EVER made !!

Was Star Trek XI good - don't tell me details - but did it seem like the audience enjoyed it and maybe the franchise has a chance of coming back to life with these new people playing the "young" crew from the original series??


----------



## HLGStrider

Insurrection was my first real taste of Star Trek other than seeing one episode of the original series at a friends house (the one with the Q like dude with the harpsicorde), and I only saw it the once. I ought to re-watch it because at the time I was a hardcore Star Wars only fan and all I really remember thinking was that the effects in Star Wars (the original three; I am pretty sure this was before Lucas Menaced me with a Phantom) were better which was strange because Star Wars is far older than Star Trek:Insurrection. Though Insurrection seemed to have been done a bit cheaply. The worlds of First Contact and Generations are far more believably produced. 

But it's been several years, so I owe it a rewatch.

I saw Nemesis in theaters, and partially because Jerry Goldsmith was such a genius, I truly thought that movie rocked and was a believable way to put an end to that section of the franchise (you really can't have another TNG movie without Data). I only wish they had been able to believably give Janeway more than a thirty second cameo. I have always wanted to write a Voyager motion picture, though I know it is a little cheesy even for Star Trek. 

So, yeah. . .


----------



## Firawyn

ltnjmy said:


> I hope that Star Trek XI is good. The last few have been awful and as a Trekkie for over 30 years - that is not easy for me to say. The last good one was Star Trek VIII: First Contact.



 I totally just watched that one today. (Re-watched!). 

I am going to see the new one - tomorrow - at the drive in theater!  THAT will be SO cool! 

I liked Nemesis, but was mega sad that they killed Data. Insurection, I agree, the acting was too stiff. Wrath of Kahn was alright. For me that one was a bit too "what a convenient happening", if you know what I mean. Generations was pretty good - but I don't think that Shatner got "in character" enough. I felt like I was watching him play that guy in Miss Congieniality, in a Star Trek movie... I couldn't see Captian Kirk in there. It was corny. Searh for Spock was probably my favorite TOS movie...that one was wicked awesome. But yea, First Contact was the best TNG movie, no contest.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *Firawyn*
> _Wrath of Kahn was alright. For me that one was a bit too "what a convenient happening", if you know what I mean._


 


You have been found guilty of treason! Khan is the Holy Grail of Trek flicks! I am beaming you over to the _'you are banned'_ forum; banning you, and then I am sentencing to life imprisonment on Rura Penthe. 

PS - I am not including episodes here. _TNG_ episodes like _Best of Both Worlds_, _The Inner Light_, and _Q Who_ are ten times better than ANY big screen Trek movie. I actually put _The Next Generation_ episodes a few notches above Tolkien as far as impact in my life .



> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _I have always wanted to write a Voyager motion picture, though I know it is a little cheesy even for Star Trek._


 
Voyager is seriously underrated. I don't see why they can't make a movie combining TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Why do they have to confine things to a specific series? Just a thought .


----------



## HLGStrider

I'm not sure about that. Malcolm McDowell is a much better villain than the borg queen. He sort of makes that movie for me.


----------



## HLGStrider

Ah, and a friend who used to post on this forum but doesn't anymore, saw it last night and said it was (no spoilers) "AMAZING" so things are looking up. Dr.R has funny tastes in movies sometimes though.


----------



## HLGStrider

> Voyager is seriously underrated. I don't see why they can't make a movie combining TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Why do they have to confine things to a specific series? Just a thought


 
Too many stars? If you think about it the crew of Voyager plus the crew of the Enterprise alone makes for a pretty long cast list, all vying for screen time. 

The difficulty with Voyager is their mission is over, so to get them back together you would have some huge plot device or time travel. I always thought the best way would be to either incorporate Species 8472 (do I have those numbers right, it's been awhile?) or to have it be that they caused some trouble in the Delta Quandrant that is cascading into the Alpha and they have to go back and fix it. 

It's been awhile, though. I saw Robert Picardo in a CSI:NY awhile back and he seemed to be holding up okay which is good because it his character can't age.


----------



## Firawyn

Illuin said:


> You have been found guilty of treason! Khan is the Holy Grail of Trek flicks! I am beaming you over to the _'you are banned'_ forum; banning you, and then I am sentencing to life imprisonment on Rura Penthe.



Is NOT! And I have Scotty on my side so he can beam me back. 

Star Trek was fantastic! Apparently the main cast has already signed on for two sequels? Mind, I'm glad of that, because there's alot more blanks to fill in.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _I always thought the best way would be to either incorporate Species 8472 (do I have those numbers right, it's been awhile?) or to have it be that they caused some trouble in the Delta Quandrant_


 

Don't forget, _Species 8472_ was actually _My Favorite Martian_:





*=*










> Originally posted by *Firawyn*
> _Star Trek was fantastic_


 
I enjoyed it myself. However, I will still wait for Strider and The Dragon before I do the Siskel and Ebert thing .


----------



## ltnjmy

I'm so glad that everybody who has seen it has seemed to like it. I'm going to see it this Friday, May 15 - and I can't wait !!

Firawyn - you are one of the nicest persons that I have ever met in cyberspace - but Bad, Bad, Bad - The Wrath of Khan was Perfection !!


----------



## HLGStrider

Illuin said:


> Don't forget, _Species 8472_ was actually _My Favorite Martian_:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *=*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
Omgosh . . . I've seen that show and I've seen that character in Star Trek and I totally failed to put them together. . . 

That's just disturbing.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _Omgosh . . . I've seen that show and I've seen that character in Star Trek and I totally failed to put them together. . . _
> 
> _That's just disturbing._


 


Yeah it is. Considering your expertise with the oldies, that is VERY disturbing indeed . 







He was also *Mr. Hand* in _Fast Times:_


----------



## HLGStrider

Don't push me on the oldies today. I just rewatched the "Court Jester" and am in a mood to type out the entire "Pellet with the poison's in the Vessel with the Pestle, the flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true" scene. . .

. . .which incidentally was featured in an episode of Star Trek: Enterprise involving doctor whatsisname being alone in the dark or something like that. 

I only watched a few episodes of My Favorite Martian and remember thinking Bill Bixby was kind of cute, but other than that the show didn't stick with me much. Didn't make my netflix list, in other words.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _I just rewatched the "Court Jester"_


 


That's a good one. Any movie that is an inspirational ancestor to Monty Python gets my thumbs up. That's my kind of humor. Could have done without most of the musical numbers though. I love composing jazzy arrangements from the old musicals, but there wasn't much to work with there .


----------



## Firawyn

ltnjmy said:


> Firawyn - you are one of the nicest persons that I have ever met in cyberspace - but Bad, Bad, Bad - The Wrath of Khan was Perfection !!



MY GOSH! 

Okay, if it will make you all feel any better I will go rent Wrath of Kahn and see if I like it any better the second time. I didn't really enjoy it (compared to other Star Trek) the first round, so I haven't bothered to re-watch it. 

Buy I WILL, if it will make everyone here, all my very good friends, feel better.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *Firawyn *
> _MY GOSH! _
> 
> _Okay, if it will make you all feel any better I will go rent Wrath of Kahn and see if I like it any better the second time._


 















> _Buy I WILL_


 
You don't have to buy it Fir, just rent it





Just messin' with ya, I know it was just a type-o


----------



## Firawyn

Yea well. I'll rent it. Though just for nitpick sake, "Buy I will", was perfectly good sentence.


----------



## HLGStrider

A perfectly good sentence if your name happens to be Yoda, I suppose.

Not ready for the burden were you. 

Just got through posting cute kitten pictures on facebook. MU HA HA HA! I'm in an evil mood tonight.


----------



## Firawyn

HLGStrider said:


> A perfectly good sentence if your name happens to be Yoda, I suppose.
> 
> Not ready for the burden were you.
> 
> Just got through posting cute kitten pictures on facebook. MU HA HA HA! I'm in an evil mood tonight.



Or if I lived in Shakespeare's world! Or um..._Middle Earth! _


And yes, I saw the cute kittens (kid and feline and you), and I thought to myself "we have newborn kittens at the kennel I work at!" Born Mother's Day!


----------



## HLGStrider

K, saw it; it rocked. McCoy is still my hero. Everything else I want to say involves spoilers.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _K, saw it; it rocked_


 
Agreed. Shame George Lucas didn't take a similar approach with the prequels. Now we just have to wait for chrys and Itnjmy, then we can spoil away . I'm curious to hear your micro-analysis.


----------



## Elbereth

HLGStrider said:


> K, saw it; it rocked. McCoy is still my hero. Everything else I want to say involves spoilers.



Funny...McCoy is my favorite too! 

Great movie...saw it...loved it...although I have to admit there were definitely a few "what the heck" moments that made me want to go back and watch all of the Star Trek movies again to make sure I didn't miss something important in the plot line.


----------



## ltnjmy

I'm so glad everyone  seems to like Star Trek XI -Agh!! - I can't wait to see it !!!


----------



## Firawyn

Elbereth said:


> Funny...McCoy is my favorite too!
> 
> Great movie...saw it...loved it...although I have to admit there were definitely a few "what the heck" moments that made me want to go back and watch all of the Star Trek movies again to make sure I didn't miss something important in the plot line.




McCoy was my favorite BEFORE the new movie! 

You guys realized who played McCoy, right?


----------



## Elbereth

McCoy was my favorite before the movie as well. I loved his sarcasm. 

The guy who plays him in the new movie is good but he can't hold a candle to the original. (PS...my fiance kept reminding me throughout the movie that he played Eomer in the Lord of the Rings movies...)


----------



## Firawyn

Elbereth said:


> McCoy was my favorite before the movie as well. I loved his sarcasm.
> 
> The guy who plays him in the new movie is good but he can't hold a candle to the original. (PS...my fiance kept reminding me throughout the movie that he played Eomer in the Lord of the Rings movies...)



To be perfectly honest, I didn't even _realize_ that it was "Eomer", until he credits rolled and I saw "Karl Urban"...and I was like "DUH!" 

McCoy's sarcasm is great, I agree 100%. I just watched "Wrath of Kahn", followed by "Search For Spock". I think my favorite McCoy line in "Search For Spock" was right after Kirk explains about the mind meld, and McCoy says "That green-blooded son of a b****! It's his revenge for all the arguments he lost." I had to rewatch that scene three times before I could stop laughing. The _look_ was perfect.

Okay, now that I've rewatched "Wrath of Kahn", I will admit I enjoyed in far more this round. Reason #1 --> The first time I watched that one, I had not yet seen "Search For Spock". I was soooo mad that they killed Spock in "Wrath of Kahn" that I took an irrational dislike to it. This time, I knew better. Reason #2 --> I was introduced to Ricardo Montalban through the "Spy Kids" movies. It's kind of hard to switch that drastic of a gear. Now, here's a funny bit for you: My landlord's last name is "Kahn"...spelled just like that...I thought that was _really really_ weird. 

Okay, I'm half-converted. "Wrath of Kahn" was great. I still say "Search For Spock" was better.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *Firawyn*
> _Okay, now that I've rewatched "Wrath of Kahn", I will admit I enjoyed in far more this round._


 

*"Allow me to introduce you to Ceti Alpha 5's only remaining, indigenous, life form. What do you think? It killed twenty of my people, including my beloved wife. Oh, not all at once. And not instantly, to be sure." You see, their young enter through the ears and wrap themselves around the cerebral cortex. This has the effect of rendering the victim extremely susceptible to suggestion. Later, as they grow, follows madness and death. These are pets, of course. Not quite domesticated."*







Pure unadulterated awesomeness!


----------



## chrysophalax

Hang in there, guys! I just got back from Scotland and am trying like mad to convince my other half to watch it with me. Just tell me it's got a plot and isn't just another stupid Hollywood action movie and maybe I'll succeed in my convincingness! 

To date, Wrath of Khan is hands down my favourite. Ricardo Montalban retained all of his sinister charm from the original Trek episode, _Space Seed_and his hatred of Kirk is quite tasty, I must say. Amazing!


----------



## Firawyn

Chrys, tell your other half that I said it was worth seeing. It retains the actors stepped into the roles already loved, they did not "put their own flair" into it. They tie in alot of references from old episodes, they stay true to the heart of Star Trek. 

Also, remind her we have similar taste in things, and I liked it, so she aught to as well. 

PS...Tell her I said 'Hi' also. 


Illuin...*rubs temples* Could you have found a GROSSER picture?!


----------



## ltnjmy

I LOVED the new Star Trek !!!

It was great !!!

Khan still ranks as my favorite Trek movie but I may have to put the new Star Trek (Star Trek XI) as possibly my second favorite !!

Anybody who has not yet seen it - PLEASE DO - it is worth the money !!


----------



## chrysophalax

Alas, I won't be able to see it until next Friday, so go ahead and discuss, guys. I won't hold you up, I just won't look in here again until I've seen it. Can't wait!


----------



## HLGStrider

K, so, just a mild, barely a spoiler at all subject in case she accidentally looks back . . . did anyone else really loathe that one scene where Kirk got chased by the yeti beast and the fleshy red beast on the ice planet? I found that scene completely pointless and rolled my eyes through the whole thing. Did they just need something to fill ten minutes? Something for a video game tie in? Something because the CGI guys didn't have enough crazy stuff to do?
edit:
Oh my gosh! I just said crazy. Yay is getting to me.

Actually, the fact that I use the word crazy and automatically assume Yay is getting to me when it is actually a fairly common word I have every right to use without channeling Yay suggests that I simply have been on this forum too long. . .


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _did anyone else really loathe that one scene where Kirk got chased by the yeti beast and the fleshy red beast on the ice planet?_


 
LOL! Strider, you are a riot. No, I enjoyed it. 

I would have rather seen the big monster graphically (with blood) eat the smaller one (giving it way more to eat than little Kirk), but it reminded me of some of the campy fun in _The Original Series_.

My only gripe is something that most of you probably wouldn't care about. Considering I do the astronomy thing, the whole supernova thing bothered me. I know it's just Star Trek, but this was just too much for me to deal with. Even with a theoretically _"larger than life"_ supernova, the damage they do is local; and would have to be within (at the absolute maximum) 40-50 light years for them to physically hurt a planet. Past that, they can't even change the shape of a fragile puffy white cloud high in the sky. For a supernova to destroy a planet (vaporize it), the planet would have to be actually orbiting the star that explodes. Even from a light year away, an unrealistically HUGE supernova can't wipe out a planet. And remember, our galaxy is _100,000 light years_ across. To me, the idea of a supernova taking out a whole galaxy even crosses the line of Star Trek fantasy science. Too much .


That was the only thing that "hurt me" to watch. I was very restless in my chair; kind of like Kirk in the beginning of _"Generations"_: 

Scotty - _"Captain, is there something wrong with your chair?"_ 

Other than that, it exceeded my expectations by light years. Definitely seeing it again next weekend (by myself this time - so I might have more to gripe about ).


----------



## Firawyn

HLGStrider said:


> K, so, just a mild, barely a spoiler at all subject in case she accidentally looks back . . . did anyone else really loathe that one scene where Kirk got chased by the yeti beast and the fleshy red beast on the ice planet? I found that scene completely pointless and rolled my eyes through the whole thing. Did they just need something to fill ten minutes? Something for a video game tie in? Something because the CGI guys didn't have enough crazy stuff to do?
> edit:
> Oh my gosh! I just said crazy. Yay is getting to me.
> 
> Actually, the fact that I use the word crazy and automatically assume Yay is getting to me when it is actually a fairly common word I have every right to use without channeling Yay suggests that I simply have been on this forum too long. . .



I can't say I was bothered too much by it, but it did irritate me a bit. However, it was for a different reason. It reminded me WAY too much of the Gungan Sub scene in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, you know, the "there's always a bigger fish" scene? WAY too similar. I think, if I had to find a reason for the scene, that it was a more dramatic way to introduce the **SPOILER** older Spock into the story. Kirk was unlikely to walk into the cave unless it meant his life. He knew there was a base on the planet, and we can assume that's where he was headed. He's "too tough" to have stopped in the shelter of the cave. Had I been in charage, I would have had Spock waiting for him at the base, have him be the one to greet Kirk at the door instead of that really cheasy little alian. You know?

As far as the "crazy" thing...I think we're all missing Yay's constant presence on TTF. Using "crazy" is a subconsious reminder of our friend. Where is that bigger anyhow???

My nitpicks:

* That they set the whole movie up to demand a sequel. While yes, the actors have signed on for two sequals, everyone knew that this movie was going to either create an entirely new generation of Trekkers, or it was going to flop terribly. And I would have been SO mad if it did flop, leaving so many loose ends. 

* I was not all that impressed with the casting for Scotty. Everyone else, but not so happy with Scotty. Granted, he had the least diologue, so any luck, he will develop to my approval over the course of the next two films.

* The bad guy...does this look like a Romulan to you? 

Okay, that should start me off. I'm hoping to see it again while its still in theater, but $$$$$ is always tight, so we'll see. I may have to wait till it comes out to rent to see it again.


----------



## HLGStrider

Illuin said:


> I would have rather seen the big monster graphically (with blood) eat the smaller one (giving it way more to eat than little Kirk), but it reminded me of some of the campy fun in _The Original Series_.


See, I thought that was what would happen and it would end the sequence. Kirk gets chased by big monster. Big monster is eaten by bigger monster. . . 

Of course, Fir is right, they had to drive Kirk into the cave somehow. I would've personally had him fall in through a crevice or something while backing up from the bigger monster crunching on big monster bones. 

I really didn't know what to think of the (SPOILER)




Spock/Uhura thing. Of course, a Kirk/Uhura thing would've been unbearable and I feared that was coming, but still it just didn't seem to fit with the Spock I've always kept in mind. I kind of like how Spock kissing her rather deflated Kirk after all that flirting he had been doing, but Uhura had such a professional thing going on the bridge . . . now to have her "involved" kind of changes another dynamic.

Also, uh . . . wasn't Vulcan always there before? The resettlement explanation only partly works.

And, uh . . . didn't Kirk have a brother? Where does that fit into his family life as posited by this current movie?

Partially, though, involving Kirk's family life, I'm just glad the House chick got screen time. Sorry, Cameron/Morrison. You are the House "Chick." You will always be the House Chick. 

Yeah, the Romulans were weird. In fact, I totally missed they were Romulans until the attack on Vulcan. In that opening sequence I am not sure if it was mentioned, but if it was it went right over my head. . . and does anyone really buy that that huge thing was once a "Mining Vessel?" When did he have time to refit it like that? Sometime in between Romulus going BOOM and reaching the other side of the black hole apparently. Vulcans, too, were a little to mono-chromatic. We all know that there are black Vulcans (Tuvok), so why were all the pod-educated Vulcans little dark haired white boys? That said, I loved that shot. It put you right into the society.

K, now those are my complaints.

Honestly, I really liked Simon Pegg as Scotty. I didn't think I would, but I did. He doesn't really look the part, but he is believable in the part to me, and that kind of overrides the fact that he is a stocky blond. 

so much of what I saw on screen was awe invoking though. I ooohed through a lot of the movie. 

My brother kept on moaning that they didn't use the theme music. They threw it in at the end, but by then you wasted a lot of opportunity to stir up some nostalgia.


----------



## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _Vulcans, too, were a little to mono-chromatic. We all know that there are black Vulcans (Tuvok), so why were all the pod-educated Vulcans little dark haired white boys? That said, I loved that shot. It put you right into the society._


 






It's so interesting to see that people watch movies like these with a completely different set of eyes than others. It takes multiple viewings for me to notice the intricacies of the characters in sci-fi movies. I'm too focused on the science and the space stuff. I was a little disappointed in the lack of _"shock moments"_ in the film. The reason _Wrath of Khan_ was so intense is because it was like a horror movie in parts - like when they first boarded Regula I and the dead bodies kept popping out at you. I jumped out of my seat a few times. It was like Halloween or Alien in some scenes (and of course, the _Ceti Eel Larvae )_. I like movies with 'good taste' (i.e. no unnecessary bad language or stupid sex stuff), but I do like a little shock and a few disturbing scenes to balance out the overall tone. The very first encounter with the Borg had that effect (disturbing). This was a bit too "light" in my opinion. But no worries, Éomer made up for any of my complaints ; and on the whole - like you said before - it rocked!


----------



## Firawyn

Illuin, please tell me you've watched the _Firefly_ series. If not, you must. It's right up your alley. 

Elgee, 

I do agree about the Scotty thing. Yes, he did play the part well. I'm just more of a visual person and I couldn't SEE Scotty. And I love Scotty. Almost more than Bones. In order, I'd say for me it's Bones, Scotty, Spock, Kirk, Chekoff, Uhura, Sulu. Favorite to least. Not that I dislike any of them.  



> Of course, Fir is right, they had to drive Kirk into the cave somehow. I would've personally had him fall in through a crevice or something while backing up from the bigger monster crunching on big monster bones.



*giggle* I love being right! 



> Spock/Uhura thing. Of course, a Kirk/Uhura thing would've been unbearable and I feared that was coming, but still it just didn't seem to fit with the Spock I've always kept in mind. I kind of like how Spock kissing her rather deflated Kirk after all that flirting he had been doing...



Oh yea! Bleck. I was a bit annoyed about that myself. Kind of like that Caspian/Susan thing in Narnia...oh bad. Soooooo bad.  I really don't think it was nessasary, first off, and that they only put it in there because they are Hollywood and had to have someone getting snogged. Second, while yes I would have also been revolted if there had been a Kirk/Uhura thing...but...*Kirk always gets the girl*. That's part of what makes Kirk, Kirk. Heck, even in _The Voyage Home_, Kirk gets the chick from the past (Dr. Gillian Taylor). There was what - two origional shows with romance that had nothing to do with Kirk? 



> . . . and does anyone really buy that that huge thing was once a "Mining Vessel?" When did he have time to refit it like that? Sometime in between Romulus going BOOM and reaching the other side of the black hole apparently.



Well, if I remember correctly (and I usually do), the *spoiler* older Spock mentioned something about how while it was only minutes for him going through the black hole thing, it was years for Nero. Years of floating around the galaxy, waiting for the right time and place to strike at Spock and get his revenge, blah, blah, blah...Probably stopped by Remus (very uncivilized people who don't ask many questions) to pick up some stuff that goes BOOM...and walah! The timeline is that Nero arrives on the day of Kirk's birth, he kills Kirk's dad, etc, etc, life goes on. Years later, when Kirk is all grown up and causeing more mayhem than his dad, Nero reappears. There was only one black hole, prior to the end of the movie, so Nero had what - 20 years to beef up his little mining vessel?


----------



## HLGStrider

I get your point, but what I am referring to is that first scene where Nero takes on the Kelvin with his working man's machine. Not only does this monster ship have the ability to totally destroy the Kelvin (albiet an outdated ship by Nero's standards), but it can survive a full on collision with the Kelvin? Huh? K, so I guess the dang thing is just that big.


----------



## ltnjmy

**SPOILER ALERT**

*spoiler alert*

Although I LOVED Star Trek XI - I think I may need to see it again because I got a bit lost with the time traveling. 

Nero went into the past - before the birth of Kirk - destroyed The Kelvin - thinking he would find Spock at that time ?

Then he hung around for 25 years waiting for Spock ? then I got a little lost by Spock traveling to/fro the past/present.

So, history was changed - Kirk's father died when he was an infant and would not be around to encourage him to enter Starfleet as the elder Spock told the young Kirk in the cave??

Anyway - I loved it. I thought Chris Pine did a great job adapting the Shatner/Kirk swagger. And I loved the mention of the Korbiyashi Maru test (from Star Trek II/Khan).

If anybody can clear up the time sequences for me  - I would appreciate it


----------



## Firawyn

ltnjmy said:


> **SPOILER ALERT**
> 
> *spoiler alert*
> 
> Although I LOVED Star Trek XI - I think I may need to see it again because I got a bit lost with the time traveling.
> 
> Nero went into the past - before the birth of Kirk - destroyed The Kelvin - thinking he would find Spock at that time ?
> 
> Then he hung around for 25 years waiting for Spock ? then I got a little lost by Spock traveling to/fro the past/present.
> 
> So, history was changed - Kirk's father died when he was an infant and would not be around to encourage him to enter Starfleet as the elder Spock told the young Kirk in the cave??
> 
> Anyway - I loved it. I thought Chris Pine did a great job adapting the Shatner/Kirk swagger. And I loved the mention of the Korbiyashi Maru test (from Star Trek II/Khan).
> 
> If anybody can clear up the time sequences for me  - I would appreciate it



First of all, the "red matter" was created as a means to suck in a supernova that was going to destroy Romulus, correct? It was never intended to be a time traveling devise, it just happened to work out that way. Older Spock sets it off, too late, Romulus is destroyed, and both Nero and Spock get sucked into the hole, only to come out in the past, we can guess years apart. Nero gets to the other end first, happens to run into The Kelvin, which he destroys because (again, we can guess) he's mad with grief, and it is a Federation vessel, from the Federation that in his mind is to blame for his loss. 

At some point (again, guesswork) Nero realizes what year he is in, and decides to just wait around for Spock to grow up, so he can kill him (why he didn't hunt down Spock the moment he was born I don't know!). His fight with James Kirk only comes around because Kirk has a knack for getting in the way of the bad guys. 

About the time Spock of the movie's present grows up, Spock of the future pops out the other end of the red-matter-black-hole thing. 

Older Spock gets involved, the story goes on. History, of course, was changed. I suspect that by the end of the third movie, older Spock will have returned to his own time, as will Nero, causing history to somehow repair itself and bring Kirk, Spock, and the others to the future that we know as "The Original Series".

Did I miss anything?


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## HLGStrider

> I suspect that by the end of the third movie, older Spock will have returned to his own time, as will Nero, causing history to somehow repair itself and bring Kirk, Spock, and the others to the future that we know as "The Original Series".


 
I don't know about that. I kind of expected this to happen in the first movie, to have a "Year of Hell" (the Voyager two parter) ending where they destroy Nero's ship in such a way (I figured a Kirk suicide run into it . . . like his dad . . . or Janeway in that episode, for that matter) that it reset the timeline and everything goes back to normal. To continue that as a story arch over three movies, to me, would just be cumbersome. Also, they are trying to fix things up with Spock and Vulcan in different ways (the Vulcan settlement and Spock coming to terms with . . . well . . . Spock in that very UnStar Wars, "I am not our father" moment). It seems to me that they are making an alternate timeline for this Star Trek to fit into which will run opposed to the old timeline and therefore they won't need to be so careful getting every single detail exactly right.

Sort of like that alternate universe in the Original series episode that came back in DS9 when Kyra (spelling? It's been awhile) got transported through a transporter accident and found herself faced with herself, or whatever.


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## Illuin

> Originally posted by *HLGStrider*
> _To continue that as a story arch over three movies, to me, would just be cumbersome. Also, they are trying to fix things up with Spock and Vulcan in different ways (the Vulcan settlement and Spock coming to terms with . . . well . . . Spock in that very UnStar Wars, "I am not our father" moment). It seems to me that they are making an alternate timeline for this Star Trek to fit into which will run opposed to the old timeline and therefore they won't need to be so careful getting every single detail exactly right._
> 
> _Sort of like that alternate universe in the Original series episode that came back in DS9 when Kyra (spelling? It's been awhile) got transported through a transporter accident and found herself faced with herself, or whatever._


 
Have to agree here 100%. Very similar to my thoughts on this (good - now I don't have to type anything ).






And don't forget:


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## Firawyn

Illuin you lazy arse. Type your own opinion (and back me up?! ) 

I don't know that. Part of what I thought was the hype of NOS (New Original Series, as I've taken to calling it) was that it was to supplement TOS, therefore it needed to fit. You know, all the high expectations and such? 

OR......maybe we'll get to the end of movie three and they'll show that it was just (William Shatner) the REAL Kirk having a really long dream about an alternate past because Spock did some weird mind-meld thing...I don't know. An idea.


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## Bucky

Illuin said:


> Patrick Stewart is the reason Star Trek became huge. He is the reason Star Trek went from being “moderately popular” to being warped into the stratosphere! Kirk, Spock, Data, McCoy, Scotty, Riker, Chekov, Worf, Jorde were all incredible, but Picard brought to life an in-depth character that can not be duplicated. No cinema or TV can ever replace the unique magic of Star Trek (especially “The Next Generation”). One viewing of the episode “*The Inner Light*” will convert all naysayers.



*You aren't serious, are you?

Star Trek was HUGE way before Patrick Stewert ever heard the word "enterprise"......

The original casts were legends even before they started making movies soon after Star Wars, which all happened way before Stewart.*


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## Illuin

> Originally posted by *Bucky*
> _You aren't serious, are you?_
> 
> _Star Trek was HUGE way before Patrick Stewert ever heard the word "enterprise"......_
> 
> _The original casts were legends even before they started making movies soon after Star Wars, which all happened way before Stewart._


 

Well, let me rephrase it a little differently. What _*"The Next Generation"*_ did for _Star Trek's_ popularity is exactly what *"In The Dark"* did for _The Dead's_ popularity . The fan following was already there beforehand, but the _"cult barrier"_ was broken, and it universally exploded.


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## HLGStrider

I'm pretty sure most of us have seen this before. A friend emailed it to me almost a decade ago, but for some reason tonight lines from it kept going through my head so I decided I needed to look it up. Here it is so you may now get it stuck in your brain too.

*If Dr. Seuss wrote for Star Trek: The Next Generation...*

*Author: Dave Fuller*

*Picard*: Sigma Indri, that's the star,
So, Data, please, how far? How far?

*Data*: Our ship can get there very fast
But still the trip will last and last
We'll have two days til we arrive
But can the Indrans there survive?

*Picard*: LaForge, please give us factor nine.

*LaForge*: But, sir, the engines are offline!

*Picard*: Offline! But why? I want to go!
Please make it so, please make it so!

*Riker*: But sir, if Geordi says we can't,
We can't, we mustn't, and we shan't,
The danger here is far too great!

*Picard*: But surely we must not be late!

*Troi*: I'm sensing anger and great ire.

*Computer*: Alert! Alert! The ship's on fire!

*Picard*: The ship's on fire? How could this be?
Who lit the fire?

*Riker*: Not me.

*Worf*: Not me.

*Picard*: Computer, how long til we die?

*Computer*: Eight minutes left to say goodbye.

*Data*: May I suggest a course to take?
We could, I think, quite safely make
Extinguishers from tractor beams
And stop the fire, or so it seems...

*Geordi*: Hurray! Hurray! You've saved the day!
Again I say, Hurray! Hurray!

*Picard*: Mr. Data, thank you much.
You've saved our lives, our ship, and such.

*Troi*: We still must save the Indran planet --

*Data*: Which (by the way) is made of granite...

*Picard*: Enough, you android. Please desist.
We understand -- we get your gist.
But can we get our ship to go?
Please, make it so, PLEASE make it so.

*Geordi*: There's sabotage among the wires
And that's what started all the fires.

*Riker*: We have a saboteur? Oh, no!
We need to go! We need to go!

*Troi*: We must seek out the traitor spy
And lock him up and ask him why?

*Worf*: Ask him why? How sentimental.
I say give him problems dental.

*Troi*: Are any Romulan ships around?
Have scanners said that they've been found?
Or is it Borg or some new threat
We haven't even heard of yet?
I sense no malice in this crew.
Now what are we supposed to do?

*Crusher*: Captain, please, the Indrans need us.
They cry out, "Help us, clothe us, feed us!"
I can't just sit and let them die!
A doctor MUST attempt -- MUST try!

*Picard*: Doctor, please, we'll get there soon.

*Crusher*: They may be dead by Tuesday noon.

*COMMERCIAL BREAK, COMMERCIAL BREAK
HOW LONG WILL THESE DUMB ADS TAKE?*

*Worf*: The saboteur is in the brig.
He's very strong and very big.
I had my phaser set on stun --
A zzzip! A zzzap! Another one!
He would not budge, he would not fall,
He would not stun, no, not at all!
He changed into a stranger form
All soft and purple, round and warm.

*Picard*: Did you see this, Mr. Worf?
Did you see this creature morph?

*Worf*: I did and then I beat him fairly.
Hit him on the jaw -- quite squarely.

*Riker*: My commendations, Klingon friend!
Our troubles now are at an end!

*Crusher*: Now let's get our ship to fly
And orbit yonder Indran sky!

*Picard*: LaForge, please tell me we can go...?

*Geordi*: Yes, sir, we can.

*Picard*: Then make it so!


*Copyright © 1995 Dave Fuller. *


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## Firawyn

I for one have never heard that before! ROFL!! 

Thanks for posting, that's fantastic! I think I may actually save a copy of it!


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