# What on middle earth is a dumbldor!!!???



## ArwenStar (Oct 5, 2019)

Title is self explanatory.
In this book:

It says:


> The moth does not feature in Tolkien’s books, although Bilbo’s poem “Errantry” does refer to invisible insects known as dumbledors!


(This is referring to the moth of Gwaihir in LoTR movies)


Ps. We all know who stole this idea...


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## Olorgando (Oct 6, 2019)

ArwenStar said:


> ...
> Ps. We all know who stole this idea...


*Know* would be quite an exaggeration. But I did get a bee in my bonnet that after much difficulty steered me in the direction of Harry Potter.
Add two letters "e" in the right places _(correctly only one: in the poem "Errantry" the word is "Dumbledors")_ and you have what I, with my very limited exposure to HP, would consider the "Gandalf" of that fantasy universe ...
So did PJ put in the moths in the LoTR and TH films as Gandalf's emissaries to the eagles as a very convoluted tribute to "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" and the HP universe? 🤔


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 6, 2019)

It's an old regional English word for bumblebee. Definitely not a moth.

I hated that 🤬 moth!


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## Gothmog (Oct 6, 2019)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> It's an old regional English word for bumblebee. Definitely not a moth.
> 
> I hated that 🤬 moth!


Do you know from what region the word comes? I have tried to find out but so far no luck.

That moth was one of the least understandable changes PJ inflicted on the films. The story-line from the book made far more sense which is probably why he did not use it.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 6, 2019)

I don't know, but wouldn't be surprised to find it's from the West Midlands.


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## ArwenStar (Oct 7, 2019)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I hated that 🤬 moth!


me too. what moth flies to isengard????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

oh. that moth.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 7, 2019)

What moth can _talk?  _


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## ArwenStar (Oct 7, 2019)

that 🤬 moth.


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## Gothmog (Oct 7, 2019)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I don't know, but wouldn't be surprised to find it's from the West Midlands.


Just had another try at finding information on it. Seems that it is not itself from a particular area but was in more general use in England from at least the late 1700s:
https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/58392?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 7, 2019)

Thanks -- I don't know where I read that.


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## Gothmog (Oct 7, 2019)

I had read in a couple of places about it being regional but it was only today that I found that info on it


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## Olorgando (Oct 7, 2019)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I don't know, but wouldn't be surprised to find it's from the West Midlands.


Now a West-Midlander is what JRRT saw himself as being, but from his time in Leeds, and both his professional and private interest in languages, he was probably quite familiar with the northern English dialects. These may have retained more of an archaic character at least into his times, the region being less densely populated and more strongly agricultural in nature - and on course bordering on Scotland.


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