# Questions from a newbie



## cr4christ (Dec 29, 2001)

Hello all:

Other than reading the Hobbit when I was in like 7th grade, I dont' know much about tolkien. I do love languages and am intrigued by his use of them in his literature.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Is middle-earth actually supposed to be this earth but under ground or in a hidden location here?

2. Does anyone know of any GOOD literature online about his language structure and vocabulary in the books and elsewhere?
Thanks
Michael


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## Ragnarok (Dec 30, 2001)

Hi, and welcome to the forum!    Middle Earth (abbreviated ME or M-E) is not in the middle of this earth. It is the middle continent of the world that Tolkien created, called Arda. The Elven lands of Valinor are to the West and the Dark Lands are to the East of ME. 

For your second question, try these sites:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

http://www.barrowdowns.com/Welcome.asp

I do not know if youll find the structure of the languages there, but you can find a great deal of info. at both sites.  

Have fun!


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## Greymantle (Dec 30, 2001)

Ragnarok, what do you mean about the Dark Lands to the East? Maybe I'm forgetting something... but if you're referring to the lands of the Easterlings, that's all part of the continent of M-e. I'm probably forgetting something here... but which do you mean?


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## Orin (Dec 30, 2001)

*Middle Earth*

Middle Earth, Mediterranean. Craddle of Western Civilisation. The East? Those nasty postwar communist nations.


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## cr4christ (Dec 30, 2001)

*thanks !*

Well, thank you very much for the welcome and information. I live in Costa Rica and have just finally got the Hobbit and teh Lord of the Rings trilogy in English to read, so I'm looking forward to it.

I'm not sure what more I"ll have to ask or discuss, but we'll see!!!

Thanks again
Michael


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## Walter (Dec 30, 2001)

Welcome to this forum, cr4christ 

A while ago there has been an interesting thread about Your first question.

There exist some books as well as a lot of websites dealing with the languages of Middle-Earth. Helge K. Fauskanger has a high reputation on this area, maybe You would like to check out his website Ardalambion


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## ReadWryt (Dec 30, 2001)

Actually, Middle-earth is Pre-historic Europe. Most of what was Arda was removed at what is reffered to as "The fall of Numenor", an event which is analogous to the dissapearance of Atlantis. In letter #165 to his publisher Houghtin Mifflin from the Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, the author wrote,



> `Middle-earth', by the way, is not a name of a never-never land without relation to the world we live in (like the Mercury of Edison). It is just a use of Middle English _ middel-erde_ (or _ erthe_), altered from Old English _ Middangeard _: the name for the inhabbited lands of Men `between the seas'. And though I have not attempted to relate the shape of the mountains and land-masses to what geologists may say or surmise abouth the nearer past, imaginary this `history' is supposed to take place in a period of the actual Old World of this planet.



The fact that it takes place in the west has far more to do with the location of England and because much of it, being inspired by the Anglo-saxon Mythologies, speaks of sailing off to the west. If one WERE to read the Anglo-saxon mythologies one would not, as Middle-earth does not, attempt to make reference to any "post war" lands to the east as they were all concieved long before the "post war" era. Tolkien had drafted what eventually became the earliest books of the Silmarillion before (1913) he was ever called to serve in World War One , where much of the Hobbit was created. The first publishing of the Hobbit was in September 21st 1937, a full 20 years after the war had ended and 24 years after he had served in the trenches of Somme France, a desolate and wretched battleground which accounted for the deaths at one point of 30,000 Brittish troops in a single day.

It is thought that the battle scenes he portrayed later in The Lord of the Rings were inspired by the battles he had seen in his days as an officer Lancashire Fusiliers.


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## Illuvatar (Dec 30, 2003)

cr4christ said:


> Hello all:
> 
> Other than reading the Hobbit when I was in like 7th grade, I dont' know much about tolkien. I do love languages and am intrigued by his use of them in his literature.
> 
> ...


In answer to your second question, I can't say I can recommend any on-line sources, but the appendices of the Lord of the Rings (LOTR) have a lot, including a chart translating elven runes to english sounds.


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## Lantarion (Dec 31, 2003)

Illuvatar, the Apenndices do offer some basic information but they are not suitable for actually learning a script or language.
I warmly suggest (if cr4christ is even around anymore) a book called 'An Introduction to Elvish', by Jim Allan (or jallan, as we have come to know him here ). It has an abundance of information on all of Tolkien's languages, and the book is essentially composed of esays and studies conducted by anthropologists and linguists and the like, which offer very interesting insights to the languages and scripts. 
I personally learned the Tengwar from this book, it's very good indeed. 

And of course Ardalambion is an outstanding place as well; maybe even more relevant than Mr. Allan's fantastic book as some of the information in it is said to be outdated.


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