# Most beloved star (Eärendil), which is it?



## Gary Gamgee (Apr 7, 2002)

*Most beloved star*

The star of Earendil which actuall star in the sky do think it is? 
I think it's Venus the evening star. Just a thought.


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## Turgon (Apr 7, 2002)

I agree with you Mr. G. I remember reading somewhere that this was the case. Can't remember where though.


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 7, 2002)

Is it in the sky tonight i wonder.


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## Turgon (Apr 7, 2002)

We'll there's clear skies over Manchester tonight, so probably...

Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 7, 2002)

yes there are it's a really nice evening actually. Are you a Manc Mr T?


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## Turgon (Apr 7, 2002)

Yes I am a Manc... nice one, sorted, mad for it... see?


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 7, 2002)

ma head ees bangin wi that nice one our kid


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## Turgon (Apr 7, 2002)

lol... nice one our kid... that's proper manc talk...


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## Elfarmari (Apr 7, 2002)

I can't remember exactly where, but sometime during Sam and Frodo's trek through Mordor, Frodo looks up and sees a star, whose light seems to give him new hope and strength. I just noticed, while reading the appendices(sp?) that this star was Earendil (Venus). I probably should have guessed this earlier, but I think that's cool!


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## Turgon (Apr 7, 2002)

Cool Elfarmari! By the way Mr Gamgee, I can see Earendil right now in the western sky, in fact it's the only star out right now so take a look!


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 7, 2002)

Did do mate looked cool felt just like Frodo hehehe


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## Eonwe (Apr 7, 2002)

the other clue is that it is called the morning star or evening star, which is what Venus is often called.

Venus is the brightest planet, and brighter than all of the stars in the sky including Sirius (The elves called this Helluin). It always appears in the morning or evening sky, either east or west, and never straight overhead.

I think I will write an astronomy thread, but I wonder who will participate...


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 7, 2002)

I would I am pretty sure the star i was looking at was Venus but not 100 percent cause isn't Mars Jupiter and Saturn also visible at the minute?


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## Eonwe (Apr 7, 2002)

Here is what the sky looks like tonight in Buffalo. It will vary based on your location, but you can get the jist.

Keep in mind, that Saturn is 2 times farther away than Jupiter. The distances in MILLIONS of kilometers are:

Jupiter 791
Saturn 1438
Mars 329
Venus 235

You can see why I wonder why Tolkien never mentions Jupiter and Saturn or Mars in LotR or the Sil, since they are often prominent in the night sky.


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 7, 2002)

so they are all basically in a diagonal, I'm interested in this by i am a complete novice. I liked that star chart could you show me one that had something really prominent like the big dipper that is near the planets so i find them. Please. Or tell me of site i could use. I would be very grateful thank you.


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## Viceras Daydark (Apr 7, 2002)

*A little help*

Hello,

I am not positive if this is correct, but I seem to remember learning this somewhere. Because all the planets evolve around the sun on the same plane (except for Pluto I believe), when planets are visible, they will be following the same trek as the sun. Hence, the line that the sun follows across the sky in the day, is the same line you can look for the planets at night. Never will be they be seen south or north of the line the sun travels, but on that same line.

Hope this helps.

-Viceras Daydark


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## Eonwe (Apr 7, 2002)

The line is called the ecliptic.

I use SkyMap Pro, which has a free functioning demo at http://www.wwsoftware.com/download.htm

There are many other software packages on the net, go to www.cnet.com goto downloads and search on astronomy.


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 8, 2002)

Thank you Eonwe that will keep me busy a while we have been having beautiful clear nights here so i'll get looking. I didn't know that about the following the sun Viceras interesting thanks.


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## Isilme (Apr 10, 2002)

I always thought that Venus was the star that Frodo was talking about, but whenever I mentioned this to my friends they thought I was crazy and kept telling me that it was just a story  



> I think I will write an astronomy thread, but I wonder who will participate...



I would most definitly!!!


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 15, 2002)

The skies in Manchester are beautiful tonight. I can see all four of the planets clearly in the sky pointing towards the sun, and the moon looks fantastic sitting between Jupiter and Venus, I am totally awestruck. 

Hey Turgon can you see?


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## Turgon (Apr 15, 2002)

Sure can our kid 
I was out in my garden earlier, taking the air - the moon looks really cool... What would be even more cool would be to have a ME star map, with Wilwarin, Menelvagor, Helluin and the like. Wonder if anybody knows of one.


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## Sarasota Joe (Jan 18, 2010)

The consensus seems to be that Eärendil is Venus, but Frodo and Sam see it shining in the _east_ at Caras Galadhon in the _evening_. Venus as an evening star only appears in the _west_; it appears in the east only in the morning. As it revolves around the sun at a faster clip than the earth it spends about nine months as an evening star in the west and then nine as a morning star in the east.

But there is not much else it could be. The only celestial object besides the sun and moon bright enough to cast a shadow (as Eärendil does with Galadriel) is Venus. Unless of course there was another object at that time that is no longer visible or no longer as bright. Perhaps Eärendil is no longer in the sky - or has dimmed.

Another possibility is that his course was different then, and he had not yet settled into the regular pattern that we know.

Does anyone have an actual reference for Eärendil being identified as Venus by Tolkien? Not the evening star, but Venus?


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## Astrance (Jan 18, 2010)

Well, Jupiter was unusually bright during the spring and summer of 2009 — the brightest object in the sky for many weeks. Though I usually think that the star of Eärendil _is_ Venus, I remember thinking on a warm August night that Jupiter looked more like a Silmarillion seen from afar... 
Saturn is also often very bright.

Helluin would be Sirius, I think, brightest of the stars, with a twinkling blue shine you can see even in a brightly-lit city.
According to the Silmarillion, the Menelmacar is Orion, the Hunter with his bright belt. Wilwarin, the Butterfly, is Cassiopeia, the only constellation to have this distinctive pattern.


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## Aernil (Jan 18, 2010)

_Now fair and marvellous was that vessel made, and it was filled with a wavering flame, pure and bright; and Eärendil the Mariner sat at the helm, glistening with dust of elven-gems, and the Silmaril was bound upon his brow. Far he journeyed in that ship, even into the starless voids; but most often was he seen at morning or at evening, glimmering in sunrise or sunset, as he came back to Valinor from voyages beyond the confines of the world._ (Silmarillion)

As for the rising of Venus in the opposite position of where it does now, don't forget that the rising of Sun and Moon were inverted in the Elder Days as well:

_...as is said in the Narsilion, the Song of the Sun and Moon. These vessels the Valar gave to Varda, that they might become lamps of heaven, outshining the ancient stars, being nearer to Arda; and she gave them power to traverse the lower regions of Ilmen, and set them to voyage upon appointed courses above the girdle of the Earth *from the West unto the East* and to return._ (Silmarillion)


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## Alcuin (Jan 18, 2010)

From the Anglo-Saxon poem “Crist” (“Chirst”), lines 104-108, _Eala éarendel engla beorhtast / ofer middangeard monnum sended
ond soðfæsta / sunnan leoma,
torht ofer tunglas, / þu tida gehwane
of sylfum þe / symle inlihtes!_​which might be translated, _Hail Earendel, brightest of angels, over Middle-earth to men sent,
and true radiance of the Sun
bright above the stars, every season
thou of thyself ever illuminest. _​Some folks want to assign this name Éarendel to John the Baptist, others to Christ, and still others (peevishly and perversely) to Teutonic myth. The poetry and the name struck Tolkien at an early age, and stayed with him afterwards: it was, in fact, the germ around which the whole legendarium was constructed: _The Silmarillion_, _The Hobbit_, and _the Lord of the Rings_.


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