# Rome vs Mordor



## EL GALLO (Apr 15, 2003)

Could the Roman Empire in its greatest times have defeated Mordor?


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## FoolOfATook (Apr 15, 2003)

Huh? I didn't even know that there was hostility between them. Assuming that you mean Mordor as it was during the War of the Ring, at the end of the Third Age, I think the answer is that no, the Roman Empire couldn't... wait, why am I wasting my time on this ridiculous question?


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## YayGollum (Apr 15, 2003)

I know nothing about the numbers of the fighters, but I'd like to think that Rome would win just because they're cool.


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## Feanorian (Apr 15, 2003)

I like to think of the Romans as Elves, so if thats true to a degree, then Rome at their height could probably have won if Sauron did not have the ring.


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## krash8765 (Apr 15, 2003)

Thats a good question. I bet they would be pretty even because Rome did have a very very large army probably around the hundreds of thousands and they also used catapults and lots of archers and such. I think it would be a good fight.


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## Eledhwen (Apr 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Feanorian _
> *I like to think of the Romans as Elves... *


Except that they were cruel, domineering slavers who trampled across the nations and used their captives as bait in spectator bloodsports (whilst promoting the welfare of others, so as to keep the Pax Romana). 

Back to the subject: Evil for evil, Mordor is the greater. Rome has the advantage of military discipline. Mordor has an army bent on destruction. But all Sauron had to do was wait for a sufficiently corrupt Emperor of Rome (there were plenty to choose from), and he could destroy the Roman Empire from the inside.


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## EL GALLO (Apr 16, 2003)

Rome's army was of about 500 thousand soldiers in it's greatest times. I don't know ho many soldiers Sauron had.


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## Niniel (Apr 16, 2003)

I think Mordor had much less soldiers, if they really had 500,000 soldiers they could have overtaken the whole of ME much faster, since ME is about the size of Western Europe.


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## EL GALLO (Apr 16, 2003)

*ME size of Western Europe*

I thought that ME was all the Old World: Europe, Asia and Africa.


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## JeffF. (Apr 16, 2003)

*Rome/Sauron*

As a student of Military History and the Armies of Middle Earth ,Rome and Sauron in many ways 'outmatch' each other. The populations of ME seem to be very low for the amount of territory (JRRT once described the distance from the Shire to Mordor to be equivalent as from England to Bulgaria). Rome would have access to far larger numbers than any power on ME and in that sense would seem to overpower Sauron's army. On the other hand, Sauron's forces would have a 'morale' advantage. They would be familiar with fighting Men but the Romans would have no such experience with fighting orcs and trolls (though they should have no problem with Haradrim, Easterlings of or Variags). Mumakil would also be beyond any Roman experience (since they are describes as being far larger than the elephants we know). Romans would also have no personal weapons capable of dealing with Troll companies (Trolls seem to be only affected by Elvish blades and Barrow swords). Rome would have an advantage in cavalry (a condition which Romans would find unfamiliar since they were frequently faced by superior numbers of cavalry) and Sauron's resources in horsemen were few. If Roman siege weapons were capable of dealing with Trolls (and there is no evidence either way) then the conventional military balance tilts in favor of Rome (whose same siege weapons-often used as field artillery-could deal with Mumakil). The biggest factor is sorcery. Sauron's sorcery, and even the power of fear created by his lieutenant, The Lord of the Nazgul, would prove decisive. Despite numbers, cavalry advantage, and siege weapons that (might) deal with Trolls and Mumakil Romans would not be able to stand against the fear inspired by Sauron or the Nazgul (unless they had a Gandalf-the-White to 'cancel' it out.


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## FoolOfATook (Apr 16, 2003)

> I thought that ME was all the Old World: Europe, Asia and Africa.



Middle-earth was just one continent on Arda, and it was roughly analagous to Europe.


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## JeffF. (Apr 16, 2003)

*Number of Continents...*

...is not my point. The low density of population in the lands is. The Atlas of Middle Earth also points this low population density out. Rome's empire is also a small fraction of the world. In relative terms with Harad being the rough equivalent of Africa and Rhun being the rough equivalent of the Middle East (and perhaps more) it is possible and likely that Sauron controlled a greater proportion of ME than Rome did of our world.


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