# Did Túrin really have a beard?



## Peter86 (Nov 16, 2019)

I have seen a lot of artwork depict Túrin as a bearded man, but does that really make sense?
He is described as having been mistaken for an elf by the people in Nargothrond, and this most likely meant that he did not have a beard, since the elves typically don't have a beard (except extremely old elves, like Círdan).
He also appears to not have a beard in Alan Lee's illustrations from the book "The Children Of Húrin".

I actually kinda like him better without a beard to be honest, it makes him appear more boyish and vulnerable, which makes his whole story even more poignant;
although I do of course also realise that he probably didn't have much time to shave during his journeys, but he did seem to get mistaken for an eld in Nargothrond.


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## Elthir (Jan 15, 2020)

I don't picture Túrin with a beard.

Also, in COH, Alan Lee gave us (if I am interpreting the pencil rendering "correctly" that is) a light-haired Beleg, while Tolkien's illustration (an early picture, admittedly) of Beleg shows him as dark haired (and at least arguably bearded!) . . . 

. . . before this Beleg "became" someone in Fangorn Forest that is 💫


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## Olorgando (Jan 16, 2020)

Túrin was about 36 when he died, in 501 First Age, having been born in 465 FA (according to Robert Foster's "Guide").
That would be quite a delayed adolescence (though, then again, it might explain some of his rash impulses - except that there are people in the news these days, twice his age, that make him look sane and tranquil …)
It is true, the only peoples for whom beards are expressly mentioned are the Dwarves - possibly including the women (and PJ got that wrong, length-wise, too). Cirdan the only of the Elves. Hobbits without, except, IIRC, some of the Stoors (very sparse growth), who were also unusual among Hobbits in not being panicked by water, and occasionally wearing boots bought from the Dwarves.
May have to do with what was considered appropriate beard-wise in the UK (or perhaps only Oxford) during JRRT's time. It wouldn't be the first time that he, in his legendarium, ignored practical aspects, here having to shave every day while leading the life of a hunted outlaw …  (Beren?)


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## CirdanLinweilin (Jan 16, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> Túrin was about 36 when he died, in 501 First Age, having been born in 465 FA (according to Robert Foster's "Guide").
> That would be quite a delayed adolescence (though, then again, it might explain some of his rash impulses - except that there are people in the news these days, twice his age, that make him look sane and tranquil …)
> It is true, the only peoples for whom beards are expressly mentioned are the Dwarves - possibly including the women (and PJ got that wrong, length-wise, too). Cirdan the only of the Elves. Hobbits without, except, IIRC, some of the Stoors (very sparse growth), who were also unusual among Hobbits in not being panicked by water, and occasionally wearing boots bought from the Dwarves.
> May have to do with what was considered appropriate beard-wise in the UK (or perhaps only Oxford) during JRRT's time. It wouldn't be the first time that he, in his legendarium, ignored practical aspects, here having to shave every day while leading the life of a hunted outlaw …  (Beren?)


Tolkien had a brief mustache during ww1. 


For reference,

CL


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## Elthir (Jan 17, 2020)

I don't think possibly is needed in the case of Dwarven women. They are no doubt bearded in my book, and (at least to other races) are indistinguishable from Dwarf-men is all ways, except in the way noted in Appendix A.

Old Cirdan had a beard, yes, plus Nerdanel's father, a smith -- who had one before his Third Cycle of Life began.

Plus that guy called Gandalf 😇


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## Olorgando (Jan 18, 2020)

Galin said:


> ...
> Plus that guy called Gandalf 😇


Who was neither Elf nor Adan, rather a (heavily disguised) Maia, as were all the Istari.
Wearing "costumes", so to speak. Saruman at least must have opted for the beard variant, as apparently he and Gandalf were repeat confused for one another in Fangorn Forest.
Radagast is never described in any detail by JRRT, so his having a beard is an assumption (for once a reasonable one) by PJ in TH the film.
We know even less about the "blue wizards" Alatar and Pallando, who disappeared in the east.
Though, depending on how far east they traveled, and assuming the "Far Easterlings" resembled the current ones (debatable), they would have been rather conspicuous sporting Ian McKellen / Christopher Lee length film beards there …


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## Elthir (Jan 18, 2020)

Saruman's white hair and beard are attested in the books, with strands of black still showing about his lips and ears (In the Istari essay, UT, Saruman was noted as being raven-haired). At the moment anyway, I can't recall anything but "old sage figures" collectively referring to the Istari (from Tolkien in his letters and possibly elsewhere), but even if the other three aren't certainly/explicitly noted as bearded in some text I've forgotten . . .

. . . I picture the five wizards as bearded.


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## Halasían (Jul 10, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> It wouldn't be the first time that he, in his legendarium, ignored practical aspects, here having to shave every day while leading the life of a hunted outlaw …  (Beren?)



I was thinking that running around as an outlaw and such would make 'shaving' a bit difficult. That said, I always pictured in my mind Turin as a bit scruffy, but not with a full-on 'Cirdan' beard. Which brings me to a side thought.... why did Cirdan be the only elf to have a beard?


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## CirdanLinweilin (Jul 10, 2020)

Halasían said:


> I was thinking that running around as an outlaw and such would make 'shaving' a bit difficult. That said, I always pictured in my mind Turin as a bit scruffy, but not with a full-on 'Cirdan' beard. Which brings me to a side thought.... why did Cirdan be the unly elf to have a beard?


Wasn't he locked up in Morgoth's prison for a _really, really, really, long time?


CL_


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## Elthir (Jul 10, 2020)

Tolkien noted (published in _Vinyar Tengwar_): *"Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father was exceptional, being only early in his second."*

Yet in another late note (December 1972 or later, see _Unfinished Tales_) it seems that JRRT also wrote *"it was a characteristic of all Elves to be beardless" *

Maybe Tolkien simply forgot what he'd written and published . . . or, since his UT point seems to have been connected to a discussion of the Elvish strain in Men_ "as to its being observable in the beardlessness of those who were so descended" -- _ since Men don't live nearly as long as Elves (obviously), his meaning could have been quite general, in other words, since Men could arguably not hope to reach whatever age constituted even one Elvish "cycle" of life, the general beardlessness of all Elves was still a solid factor here.

In other, other words: _all _Elves were beardless, until they reached a certain age -- but an age in which it did not matter with respect to the beardlessness _of Men_ with Elvish heritage?

Or something else 🐾


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## Halasían (Jul 11, 2020)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> Wasn't he locked up in Morgoth's prison for a _really, really, really, long time?
> 
> 
> CL_


Wasn't that Hurin?


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## CirdanLinweilin (Jul 11, 2020)

Halasían said:


> Wasn't that Hurin?


I seem to remember Cirdan being in slavery or imprisonment and that's the reason for his beard.....

Was it salt mines?

EDIT: NVM, Got this from the Tolkien Gateway Page: I


> n the last years of the Third Age, Círdan appeared very old save for his eyes which "_were keen as stars_", wearing a long beard.[6] Likely, he had grown a beard since having reached his third cycle of life.[23]


http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Círdan#cite_note-24


CL


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## CirdanLinweilin (Jul 11, 2020)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> I seem to remember Cirdan being in slavery or imprisonment and that's the reason for his beard.....
> 
> Was it salt mines?
> 
> ...



I stand corrected.

CL


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## Halasían (Jul 11, 2020)

Yeah Cirdan was indeed an anomaly having reached 'the third cycle of life'.


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## Olorgando (Jul 13, 2020)

Elthir said:


> ...
> Maybe Tolkien simply forgot what he'd written and published . . . or, since his UT point seems to have been connected to a discussion of the Elvish strain in Men_ "as to its being observable in the beardlessness of those who were so descended" -- _ since Men don't live nearly as long as Elves (obviously), his meaning could have been quite general, in other words, since Men could arguably not hope to reach whatever age constituted even one Elvish "cycle" of life, the general beardlessness of all Elves was still a solid factor here.
> ...


This might explain Elrond's beardlessness.
But Túrin didn't have an Elvish ancestry.


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## Elthir (Jul 14, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> This might explain Elrond's beardlessness.
> But Túrin didn't have an Elvish ancestry.




Yes, my last post wasn't an explanation for Túrin, but rather an attempt to see if all of Tolkien's statements about Elves and beards can be reconciled in some way -- since Cirdan obviously had one in author-published sources.

I don't imagine Túrin with a beard due to his epithet _Adanedhel _in Nargothrond.


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