# Did Boromir speak Sindar?



## Húrin Thalion (Nov 27, 2002)

I just had a little thought, did Boromir speak Sindar? 

The strongest argument against this that I have found is that he does not speak the language of the elves when in Imladris and Lórien.

But wouldn't the future ruler of Gondor know Sindarin? As many in the city still spoke this language I find it hard to see that any of the house of Húrin could not speak even Sindarin.

Anyone knows anything for sure?

Elen


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## Niniel (Nov 27, 2002)

Well, it is said that he wasn't as interested in history and 'lore' as Faramir was. The only one who could have taught it to them was Gandalf, and Boromir didn't spend a lot of time with Gandalf when he was there. Denethor says that he didn't like it that Faramir spent so much time with Gandalf. But maybe Faramir knew Sindarin? Is this siad somewhere?


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## Húrin Thalion (Nov 27, 2002)

Still there were many who spoke Sindarin in Gondor for there the frienship with the elves was not forgottem. The people of Minas Tirith shouted "Eärnil i pheriannsth!" to Pippin which is sindarin and means the lord of the halflings. Maybe a never answered question.

Elen


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## Eriol (Nov 29, 2002)

Even Frodo was a bit confused by the Elvish spoken in Lórien, so I don't think Boromir would have an easy time there. Rivendell, though, is another story... I will have to look into this. Are you sure he did not understand the elves there? Yes, I agree that the future ruler of Gondor had to know Sindarin, it is strange.


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## Ceorl (Nov 30, 2002)

I am not sure the language spoken in Gondor was Sindarin; I am pretty certain it was Adûnaíc, which was derived from Sindarin.

And if the friendship with the Elves was not forgotten, why did Boromir consider Lothlorien more dangerous even than Moria?

And Why would the ruler of Gondor need Sindarin? they haven't seen Elves in hundreds of years.

In any case, it is likely that Faramir knew Sindarin, as he was highly book-learnèd.


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## Húrin Thalion (Nov 30, 2002)

Of course there were many who spoke elvish in Gondor even though they had no contact with them. The very name Boromir is Sindarin just as Faramir. Denethor is older than that and derives from king Denethor who came with the Nandor to help Thingol in the first battle of Beleriand. In Lorien they spoke both silvan and sindarin but would Legolas understand silvan? Also "Eärnil i periannath!" is sindarin and the "Eglerio!" shouted at the fields of cormallen certainly was not Adûnaic. Adûnaic kind of fell out of use after the fall of Númenor but was still used to some extent in the northern kingdom I think. Plus it was still Gondor's ceremonial language wich the steward doubtlessly needed to know.

In haste, Húrin Thalion


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## Lantarion (Nov 30, 2002)

Adûnaic wasn't spoken almost at all after the Akallabêth; and Sindarin was the common language of the Elves and closest Elf-Friend kingdoms, whereas Westron was the Common Tongue of all other races. I'm not sure about this, but I'd say that the people if Gondor knew both Sindarin and Westron.
But Boromir seems to be more of a military type, and not a linguist, so I'd say he didn't know Sindarin. 

PS: _Eärnil i Pheriannath_ means prince of the Halflings; and _Eglerio_ is Sindarin. (The Quenya equivalent of the word, 'glory', is _alcar_)


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## Húrin Thalion (Nov 30, 2002)

To say my personal opinion I think that Boromir spoke sindarin however with complications and thus he didn't want to show his shortcomings in the language by speaking it. Possibility is that he could read but not speak correctly.

Húrin


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## aragil (Dec 2, 2002)

Good thread (if a little on the nitpicky side)! I think Boromir did speak Sindarin- the Elves in Lorien were probably Silvan (one at least had blonde hair), as were most of the Elves in Mirkwood. Some people on these boards think that in fact Legolas was a Sinda-Silvan mix, with Thranduil being Sindarin and the unkown mother being Silvan. Of course this is pure speculation, but there's nothing in the books to deny it.
Also, it looks like everybody here probably knows this, but I'll mention it anyway: Westron was a direct linguistic descendant of Adunaic, which I believe was a mannish language predating the discovery of Beor by Finrod (although I'm sure the language was significantly enriched by Sindarin during the latter part of the First Age). Also, Adunaic was not completely forgotten- I believe the Black Numenoreans and Corsairs of Umbar kept up on it, even if its use was less common in Gondor.
Here's some bits from Letters:


> ]_Letter 144 to Naomi Mitchison_
> The Westron or C.S. is supposed to be derived from the Mannish Adunaic language of the Númenóreans, spreading from the Númenórean Kingdoms in the days of the Kings, and especially from Gondor, where it remains spoken in nobler and rather more antique style (a style also usually adopted by the Elves when they use this language). But all the names in Gondor, except for a few of supposedly prehistoric origin, are of Elvish form, since the Númenórean nobility still used an Elvish language, or could.





> _Letter 347 to Richard Jeffery_
> It may be noted that at the end of the Third Age there were prob. more people (Men) that knew Q., or spoke S., than there were Elves who did either! Though dwindling, the population of Minas Tirith and its fiefs must have been much greater than that of Lindon, Rivendell, and Lórien. In Gondor the generally used language was 'Westron', a lang. about as mixed as mod. English, but basically derived from the native lang. of the Númenóreans ; but Sindarin was an acquired polite language and used by those of more pure N[úmenórean] descent, esp. in Minas Tirith, if they wished to be polite (as in the cry Ernil i Pheriannath III 41 cf. 231, and Master Perian 160).


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## Beruthiel (Dec 2, 2002)

In TTT when Frodo and Sam are at Henneth Annun, Frodo is surprised when he realizes that Faramir and his men are conversing in Sindarin. 

If Faramir and his troops spoke it, it is likely that Boromir did too. Kind of hard to have a "secret" language, i.e. one foes would not comprehend, if you and your troops didn't all speak it.


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