# Care to discuss this?



## Eledhwen (Feb 12, 2005)

I found This website whilst looking for something else. It's a private one, and very speculative  in its ideas of what inspired Tolkien; but has some good photos and interesting discussion points.

There is also a link to a review of TTT by Salman Rushdie, which is a good read.


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## Maeglin (Feb 13, 2005)

> If you don't believe that Tolkien is the greatest writer there ever was when you are 13 years old there is something wrong with you. If you still believe that when you are 53 there really is something wrong with you.



I'm not sure how much I agree with the last part of that statement. If you think he is the greatest writer when you are 53 then I don't see any problem with that. Maybe his books were written mainly for children, but not entirely. The Sil. has some deep stuff in it, and is a very tough read for many people of all ages. If people read between the lines of the stories, looking at all of the allegory, there is much to interpret and study for all ages. I truly believe that one could study LOTR and the Sil. (at least the Sil., if not both) for many years.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Feb 13, 2005)

Maeglin said:


> I'm not sure how much I agree with the last part of that statement *["If you don't believe that Tolkien is the greatest writer there ever was when you are 13 years old there is something wrong with you. If you still believe that when you are 53 there really is something wrong with you."]* If you think he is the greatest writer when you are 53 then I don't see any problem with that. Maybe his books were written mainly for children, but not entirely. The Sil. has some deep stuff in it, and is a very tough read for many people of all ages. If people read between the lines of the stories, looking at all of the allegory, there is much to interpret and study for all ages. I truly believe that one could study LOTR and the Sil. (at least the Sil., if not both) for many years.



The statement (I assume it's Rushdie's) is _clever_ because of its tight calculated construction. Other than that, it's no more than an opinion, certainly far from the facts! It would appear that there is "something wrong" with a great many people 53 and over in light of the fact that LOTR was named the greatest read of the 20th Century! Since I am 68 and a fan of Tolkien for more than 40 years, there must be something _really_ wrong with me! To paraphrase a quote from Tevya in _Fiddler on the Roof:_ "Tolkien — _it's a disease!_ May God _smite_ me with it, and may I _never recover!_" 

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Feb 13, 2005)

> _Salman Rushdie_:- Peter Jackson's picture is an improvement on its source material, if only because Jackson's film language is subtler, more sophisticated and certainly more contemporary than the stilted, deliberate archaisms of J. R. Tolkien's descriptive prose and, even more problematically, of his dialogue. I am a big fan of the book version of The Lord of the Rings, but nobody ever read Tolkien for the writing.



Did Rushdie read the same book as me? I can only agree with the "more contemporary" and "deliberate archaisms", which I didn't find stilted at all.

Here's one of my favourite bits: _"And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dur was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was sudenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung."_

I defy anyone (particularly Salman Rushdie) to improve on this superlative description of Sauron's moment of realisation.


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## Gothmog (Feb 13, 2005)

> I am a big fan of the book version of The Lord of the Rings, but nobody ever read Tolkien for the writing.


Seems that there must be a lot of people named "Nobody" myself included


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 13, 2005)

I think that in belittling Tolkien's efforts and artistry, and perhaps even in envying the success with which his books have reverberated the world over, some writers are simply trying to console themselves for being less successful, or they simply cannot fathom the beauty of Tolkien's creation. But it's all good, as it's _their_ loss.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Feb 13, 2005)

I am laughing at your new avatar! Is it "I want to die but not just yet..." Reminds me of a statement of St. Francis: "Lord, make me chaste...but not yet." 

Barley


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## Mike (Feb 14, 2005)

> If you don't believe that Tolkien is the greatest writer there ever was when you are 13 years old there is something wrong with you. If you still believe that when you are 53 there really is something wrong with you.


 
This a quote from Terry Pratchett (remember him?)It apeared in a book called "Mediations on Middle-Earth" The whole thing was meant to be a humerous reflection on his years immersed in Tolkien. 

Right now, I don't think he's the greatest writer who ever lived (Pasternak wins that one!), but I still sure think he's a damn good one.



> _Salman Rushdie_:- Peter Jackson's picture is an improvement on its source material, if only because Jackson's film language is subtler, more sophisticated and certainly more contemporary than the stilted, deliberate archaisms of J. R. Tolkien's descriptive prose and, even more problematically, of his dialogue. I am a big fan of the book version of The Lord of the Rings, but nobody ever read Tolkien for the writing.


 
Subtler? I love Tolkien's prose, and its descriptions are some of my favourite ones in any novel. As for Jackson's "subtle language":

Gimli: Nobody tosses a dwarf!

Need I say more?


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## e.Blackstar (Feb 14, 2005)

Oh...wow. I'm not sure whether to puke, cry, or hurl myself into an abyss. *wanders off*


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## Mike (Feb 16, 2005)

> Oh...wow. I'm not sure whether to puke, cry, or hurl myself into an abyss. *wanders off*



Huh? I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Eledhwen (Feb 16, 2005)

Mike said:


> Huh? I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.


Maybe she's been reading some of the reviews and stuff attached to the link on the first post.


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