# Project Evil



## David Pence

I guess we still have a problem dealing with political and other hot topics on TTF.

The old Project Evil site is still available, I guess we could give it another run. I would first need to assemble a group of moderators before I open it up.

So, anyone else here feel we should give Project Evil another try?


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

dapence said:


> I guess we still have a problem dealing with political and other hot topics on TTF.
> 
> The old Project Evil site is still available, I guess we could give it another run. I would first need to assemble a group of moderators before I open it up.
> 
> So, anyone else here feel we should give Project Evil another try?



It might be an idea if you take a look at some of the other Tolkien sites that have P&R areas to see how they handle them. If you like I'd be happy to send you some of the URLs. Personally I'd prefer reactivating the areas we already had. I think there would be a different tone now — now that the world has had almost eight years of suffering the consequences of the Bush administration: he's not an unknown quantity any more; everyone knows, and it is much more likely that there will be settled opinions.

As to religion and the culture wars, I think there will be a similar reaction to the last almost-eight years of the combination of neocons and right-wing theocrats and their effects on the fabric of the Middle East, American government and society. Just my 2¢.

Barley


----------



## Gothmog

I think that it is time to give Project Evil another go.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Gothmog said:


> I think that it is time to give Project Evil another go.



If that's the path taken, I suggest it be re-named. That moniker does not bode well for its future, methinks...

Barley


----------



## chrysophalax

I'm also in favour of opening part of the forum up again to that sort of thing, as Barley has suggested. I would also be willing to help moderate.


----------



## Ingwë

I think PE should be brought back to life again. I have never posted much in the politics/religion sections of any forums but I may start here  
I don't actually care about the name of the site. It is not that important to me. 
I am also willing to help you moderate the site, I have enough time for that.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Ingwë said:


> I think PE should be brought back to life again...



Ingwe, your signature is perfect for these times and days! Is that your thought, or someone else's? 

Barley


----------



## Ingwë

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Ingwe, your signature is perfect for these times and days! Is that your thought, or someone else's?
> 
> Barley


Unfortunately, I am not that smart  It is a quote from "The 4400", the last episode of Season 3, as far as I remember


----------



## Gothmog

Ok. If you would like to discuss Politics and Religion, the media or philosophy or just the world in general.

Project Evil

Is now open for discussions. Just follow the link and register.


----------



## David Pence

DO NOT mirror posts on Project Evil here on TTF!


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

I hope we get more members and participation! What a difference between today and years ago, when there were many thoughtful contributors and the P&R pot still on TTF boiled furiously...

C'mon you guys, having _less than a dozen_ members at this writing on PE does not bode well for its continued existence! Surely there are those out there who would love to air their views on such as politics, religion, science, the culture wars, the theocrats and the neocons, the levels to which the entertainment industry has descended...

Barley


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

I have withdrawn from Project Evil, because Grey Pilgrim wanted to discuss the writings of David Duke, a virulent anti-Semite (as any thorough Google search will show), just as if his nefarious writings and claims were legitimate, and a source of calm discussion. 

Anyone who knows his writings and actions (as I do) knows that his hatred of Jews is both gleeful, cruel, and of course, as in all such cases, pseudo-intellectual. _GP, according to the nature of his introduction to a lengthy quote, apparently accepts Duke's twisted notions as the truth,_ which shows his ignorance of the facts as well as his mindset. I became very angry and told him what I thought he is and withdrew permanently from the site. To make matters worse, Gothmog defended GP's post as indeed grounds for legitimate discussion. GP said "good riddance" about my leaving; I say the same about him and the site. 

So: I warn one and all: Project Evil has indeed become so, and is now the repository and safe haven of the idea of _anti-Semitism as truth_ (according to Grey Pilgrim's apparent belief anyway); go there at your peril if such things offend you. There are limits, and Gothmog has allowed Project Evil to go past them.

Barley


----------



## Gothmog

Since you have stated that you will not be returning to PE. I must answer you on this thread.


Barliman Butterbur said:


> I have withdrawn from Project Evil, because Grey Pilgrim wanted to discuss the writings of David Duke, a virulent anti-Semite (as any thorough Google search will show), just as if his nefarious writings and claims were legitimate, and a source of calm discussion.


Since the book had been published, it is a legitimate source of discussion. 



> Anyone who knows his writings and actions (as I do) knows that his hatred of Jews is both gleeful, cruel, and of course, as in all such cases, pseudo-intellectual. _GP, according to the nature of his introduction to a lengthy quote, apparently accepts Duke's twisted notions as the truth,_ which shows his ignorance of the facts as well as his mindset. I became very angry and told him what I thought he is and withdrew permanently from the site. To make matters worse, Gothmog defended GP's post as indeed grounds for legitimate discussion. GP said "good riddance" about my leaving; I say the same about him and the site.


And what of those who do not know of his writings? By having the thread you had the perfect opportunity to refute all allegations made by the author. You could have turned the spotlight on each point and put forth the other side.



> So: I warn one and all: Project Evil has indeed become so, and is now the repository and safe haven of the idea of _anti-Semitism as truth_ (according to Grey Pilgrim's apparent belief anyway); go there at your peril if such things offend you. There are limits, and Gothmog has allowed Project Evil to go past them.
> 
> Barley


The only way any forum can become a safe haven for any one view is when no one is willing to stand and argue. I allowed you the chance to do just that.


----------



## Ingwë

Why can't you just post without arguing... 
I assume that is anti-Jewish book and the author is racist. I have never read it and I don't know it. However, TTF is not the place to talk about it... I've seen the report this morning but I didn't have time to read the thread. I will read it now. Maybe it is our fault because no clear rulers were made 
But if I were you, I wouldn't leave the board for things like that.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Ingwë said:


> Why can't you just post without arguing...



It would be like a debate in which it would be resolved that Hitler _loved_ the Jews, or that there is truth in the anti-Semitic view...pointless.



> I assume that is anti-Jewish book and the author is racist.



Precisely. If someone wants to argue about Duke to prove what he is to those who might not know, they have my blessing; it won't be me. Anti-Semites just love it when they get someone upset about their assertions, or when someone actually tries to treat their lies as possible truth. I lost relatives, albethem distant, in the Holocaust; enough said.

Barley


----------



## David Pence

Let's take this diatribe back to PE where it belongs.


----------



## Ermundo

I checked out the book that is causing such a fuss. It is not a hundred percent anti-semitic, even if the author is. There is no outright bashing of Jews, and as far as I can tell, no attacks on the Jewish faith. But that does not mean that this is a book promoting Jews. Not even close.


----------



## Gothmog

Any discussions on the matter to be conducted only on Project Evil please.


----------



## Firawyn

Hey, I'm still having no luck with registering on PE. 

Help?


----------



## Gandalf White

That was priceless.


----------



## Gothmog

Gandalf White said:


> That was priceless.



Waht was priceless ?


----------



## David Pence

To those having difficulty registering at PE, you may want to check your spam or junk mail folder. I think there is something about "Project Evil" in the headers triggers these spam filters.


----------



## greypilgrim

erased, after I read this: 

Gothmog said: Any discussions on the matter to be conducted only on Project Evil please.


----------

