# Gandalf's Use of Power (Something I was wondering about...)



## Red Istar (Oct 17, 2003)

*Something I was wondering about...*

In the Hobbit Gandalf killed several orcs (goblins) with a flash of light.

Where was this power at the Hornburg or Minas Tirith?


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## Celebthôl (Oct 17, 2003)

Well, for one he needed fire to do it  and for another he wasnt at the hornburg. 
At minas Tirith his main job that was taking up his time was Moral and the Witch-King, plus he didnt have fire on him.


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## Red Istar (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *Well, for one he needed fire to do it  and for another he wasnt at the hornburg.
> At minas Tirith his main job that was taking up his time was Moral and the Witch-King, plus he didnt have fire on him.  *



At the end he was, I do believe. *goes to look* Also, Moria.

Oh, and Gandalf had expressly forbidden them to light a fire in the cave, so he did it without any fire to work with.


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## Celebthôl (Oct 17, 2003)

Oh that one sorry, i was thinking about when they were infront of the great-goblin.

Well, im guessing that that would be useless to use as he has to say a command etc and by that time he could be killed. . . its a frantic fight


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## Red Istar (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *Oh that one sorry, i was thinking about when they were infront of the great-goblin.*


*

I MUST SLAY YOU FOR YOUR INCOMPETENCE! 




Well, im guessing that that would be useless to use as he has to say a command etc and by that time he could be killed. . . its a frantic fight  

Click to expand...


Hmm... perhaps.*


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## Aglarthalion (Oct 17, 2003)

Mybe another reason that Gandalf didn't use tht power again as because he knew it would not have such a strong effect against more enemies with greater power than a few mere orcs.


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## Lantarion (Oct 18, 2003)

This is fairly interesting.. Gandalf obviously had the power to obliterate enemies with the flick (or rather, flash) of his staff, so why didn't he use it more often? Or did he? Unless I'm mistaken, I think Gandalf fought in both the Battle of Helm's Deep and that of the Pelennor fields.. The more I think abuot it the more I think I'm mistaken though.. 
Anyway, did Gandalf utilize his powers enough or not? There was the whole issue of not 'displaying oneself in might', the sort of code of honour of the Istari.. But it wouldn't be that, if he helped save lives, would it?


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## Red Istar (Oct 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *This is fairly interesting.. Gandalf obviously had the power to obliterate enemies with the flick (or rather, flash) of his staff, so why didn't he use it more often? Or did he? Unless I'm mistaken, I think Gandalf fought in both the Battle of Helm's Deep and that of the Pelennor fields.. The more I think abuot it the more I think I'm mistaken though..
> Anyway, did Gandalf utilize his powers enough or not? There was the whole issue of not 'displaying oneself in might', the sort of code of honour of the Istari.. But it wouldn't be that, if he helped save lives, would it? *



Exactly my point! Imagine is he had just taken out a dozen orcs at a time at these battles, instead of going amoungst them with a sword like any other person.


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## Starbrow (Oct 18, 2003)

During the battle of the Pelennor Fields, Gandalf was preventing Faramir's murder and trying to prevent Denethor's suicide. After those deeds, he climbs on top of Minas Tirith's walls and sees what has transpired with the Witch-King. He expresses his regret that he was not there to help prevent the deaths. But then he goes to the Houses of Healing to aid the wounded.

Gandalf arrived at the Hornburg with 1000 men and after the Huorns had arrived, so there wasn't much left for him to do.


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## Flammifer (Oct 19, 2003)

I think using his staff all the time for these flashes of white light etc. were very tiring for ol' Gandy

In Moria, when he first encounters the Balrog (though he doesn't see it), there's a flash of white light (let's assume that's the 'word of Command'). He flies down the steps a bit later, and is very very weary from this encounter. He cannot provide light for a while.

This is an extreme instance. I doubt he would have been so weary if it was a flash of light that just killed a few orcs, but it would still tire him out somewhat. Using this all the time would sort of 'build up' his tiredness, so he couldn't use it that often.......

Well, that's my opinion......


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## Red Istar (Oct 19, 2003)

That might also be the reason... using magic in ME seems to take something from the person using it, just like physical effort does.


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## Lantarion (Oct 19, 2003)

Here are some interesting threads pertaining to the use of magic in Middle-Earth:
Could Hobbits Use Magic? 
The "Magic" of the Valar? 
Magic Spells and Orcs [Especially interesting!]


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## Red Istar (Oct 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *Here are some interesting threads pertaining to the use of magic in Middle-Earth:
> Could Hobbits Use Magic?
> The "Magic" of the Valar?
> Magic Spells and Orcs [Especially interesting!] *



I'll look at those, thanks. 

Another example of Gandalf's more impressive powers might be when he repelled the Nazgul on Weathertop (?). Aragorn, Frodo, and company could see the fireworks from a long whiles away.


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## Aulë (Oct 20, 2003)

Gandalf was also preparing to use his power at the Battle of Five Armies:


> On all this Bilbo looked with misery. He had taken his stand on Ravenhill among the Elves-partly because there was more chance of escape from that point, and partly (with the more Tookish part of his mind) because if he was going to be in a last desperate stand, he preferred on the whole to defend the Elvenking. *Gandalf, too, I may say, was there, sitting on the ground as if in deep thought, preparing, I suppose, some last blast of magic before the end. That did not seem far off.*


But it appears that any large quantities of 'magic' that would be needed for any significant damage upon the Orcs would require a lot of Gandalf's energy, and would weaken him severly. Therefore it would have been smart to save any 'magic' until the very latest moment possible.


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## Red Istar (Oct 20, 2003)

Maybe. He slew the orcs in the cave a split-second after waking up, with no preparation at all. It's also implied that he used another 'flash' during their escape from the orc's caves (when Gollum snatched Bilbo). But, then again, I guess those incidents weren't on the scale of what he would have needed to do at a huge battle. 

Another thing: if there was any time at all this power could have come in handy it was at Moria. He didn't have this excuse:



> During the battle of the Pelennor Fields, Gandalf was preventing Faramir's murder and trying to prevent Denethor's suicide. After those deeds, he climbs on top of Minas Tirith's walls and sees what has transpired with the Witch-King. He expresses his regret that he was not there to help prevent the deaths. But then he goes to the Houses of Healing to aid the wounded.
> 
> Gandalf arrived at the Hornburg with 1000 men and after the Huorns had arrived, so there wasn't much left for him to do.



there, because there would have been PLENTY for him to do. Even if it did make him weary (something I am beginning to doubt, because after using it he still had enough energy to sneak into the orc-cave and do that bit with the fire), it seems he should have used it at least _once._

Hope that makes sense.


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## Gandalf White (Oct 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Red Istar _
> *Another thing: if there was any time at all this power could have come in handy it was at Moria...
> 
> ...there, because there would have been PLENTY for him to do. Even if it did make him weary (something I am beginning to doubt, because after using it he still had enough energy to sneak into the orc-cave and do that bit with the fire), it seems he should have used it at least once.
> ...


 But he _did_ use power in Moria, in three instances that I can think of. 

1) The flash of light that revealed the orcs and troll(s).
2) The shutting spell he placed on the door, and the consequent struggle of wills with the Balrog.
3) The no doubt immense measure of power (as witnessed by the breaking of his staff) used to cause the bridge to break in half.

This quote is directly from Gandalf, after he fights the Balrog's counter-spell on the door: 


> Ah! I have never felt so spent, but it is passing.


 Apparently use of power _does_ weary one, although it seems to pass rather quickly. However, continued use would definitely deplete it to a dangerous level, it seems.


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## Red Istar (Oct 20, 2003)

True. I guess I was thinking about him killing orcs directly.


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## Gandalf White (Oct 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Red Istar _
> *True. I guess I was thinking about him killing orcs directly.  *


 Yeah, there really was no need for him to do this, Aragorn and Boromir hogged all the kills!


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## Red Istar (Oct 21, 2003)

LOL, true, true.


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