# First Impression of the Elves???



## Lady_of_Gondor (Feb 6, 2009)

I remember the first time I read the Lord of the Rings, I didn't know what to make of the elves, especially after that first encounter with Gildor, a character who strikes me as severe, being the first elf we meet in LotR. 

Sam's first reaction is akin to my own when he says:



> [The elves] seem above my likes and dislikes, so to speak...It don't seem to matter what I think about them. They are quite different from what I expected - so old and young, so gay and sad, as it were.



As we become more versed in the history of the elves, we have a tendency to lose track of that first reaction. I remember feeling absolutly lost in terms of understanding these creatures. And in that first reading of LotR, it wasn't until the company made it to Lothlorièn that I really understood the incredible impact the elves have had on Middle Earth.

How did you come to your present understanding of the elves? Do you remember your reaction to them the first time you read The Hobbit or LotR? Do you still feel confounded by them? Are there any passages in particular that have really helped you to understand Tolkien's firstborn creation? How so?

Look forward to hearing your stories!

Oops, forgot the citation for that quote. It is:

Tolkien, J.R.R. The Fellowship of the Ring. London, HarperCollins, 2003: 114-115.


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## Tyelkormo (Feb 6, 2009)

Lady_of_Gondor said:


> How did you come to your present understanding of the elves? Do you remember your reaction to them the first time you read The Hobbit or LotR? Do you still feel confounded by them? Are there any passages in particular that have really helped you to understand Tolkien's firstborn creation? How so?



By the end of the Third Age, shouldn't they be confounding? For all efforts in RPGs and movies, can we really relate to beings 5-10,000 years of age? The Silmarillion and selected writings from the HoME certainly help to see where they once came from, but as for where they are and what they are, I think in some ways, the answer will always be "different".


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 6, 2009)

Lady_of_Gondor I think you put your finger on it when you said you felt the same as Samwise. When I read LOTR I see Sam as the commoner, the one with which most people can relate to and therefore his views are expressed much more than Frodo's. Sam is how Tolkien wants us to feel IMO.

Remember that the elves are on the decline as well, so despite their majesty, they are not meant to appear as mighty as they once were. I particularly like Sam's comment that there are "elves and elves". My first impression though is that they are otherworldly and superior, and that first impression shows to me two sides: the joyous, celebratory element yet also the years of wonder they possess allowing great wisdom.

Gildor's statement that he does not wish to counsel Frodo on one path pr another seems that only an elf could do so, as no other being has the wisdom to make that choice. With age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes a feeling of alienation I believe, because one who has greater wisdom is at a different level to those with less, and therefore in this wisdom is reflected the elves experience.


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Feb 7, 2009)

That is an interesting point about wisdom bringing alienation. I can see this happening even within the elderly of our own society - though that might be for other reasons, such as an intentional alienation of old people by young people. I can see how if the elves were surrounded by other elves who had lived as long and experienced as much, perhaps the alienation would not seem so strong, but as Gildor's company was one of the few remaining groups of elves left in Middle Earth, I can see where they might have this reaction. 

I imagine that if my grandmother suddenly decided to hang out with a bunch of 15 year olds, she might always be aware of the mistakes these kids were making, especially having been a mother of 5 and grandmother to 9, and thus would have a strained relationship with them.


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 7, 2009)

Lady_of_Gondor said:


> I imagine that if my grandmother suddenly decided to hang out with a bunch of 15 year olds, she might always be aware of the mistakes these kids were making, especially having been a mother of 5 and grandmother to 9, and thus would have a strained relationship with them.


 
Yes, but I think what makes the elves so special is that they would not have a strained relationship with any of their allies. Although they would be wiser and stronger and a few other things, I believe that they would not wish themselves to be seen as superior, such is their wisdom. No matter how jovial and naive the hobbits are concerning events outside the Shire, I still think the elves would not patronise them and treat them as a parent does a young child/toddler. They would speak to them as equals, rather than a mentor/overseer.


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## Firawyn (Feb 11, 2009)

My first impression of the elves (by the books), was that they were "the ideal man". They seemed to always be of sound judgment in whatever they did, but not too proud about it. Because they seem so idea, I've never been a huge fan of elves. Humanity is far more flawed, myself a prime example , and therefore I've never been able to identify with them as characters.


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## Bucky (Feb 12, 2009)

Noldor_returned said:


> Yes, but I think what makes the elves so special is that they would not have a strained relationship with any of their allies.




*That sounds like it should be right but....

'Now King Thingol welcomed not with a full heart the coming of so many princes in might out of the West, eager for new realms; and he would not open his kingdom, nor remove it's girdle of enchantment...Alone of the princes of the Noldor those of Finarfin's house were suffered to pass within the confines of Doriath.''

'But Caranthir, who loved not the sons of Finarfin, and was the harshest of his brothers and the quickest to anger, cried aloud: "Yea, more! Let not the sons of Finarfin run hither & thither with their tales to this Dark Elf in his cave. Who made them our spokesmen to deal with him?..."

Need I go on through the rest of the Simarillion? 
*


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## Illuin (Feb 12, 2009)

I’ve liked the Elves since I was a kid after reading The Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit; and even more in high school when I read The Silmarillion. For thirty years I thought they were great. It wasn’t until I joined a certain Tolkien forum about a year ago (ahem...a green forum) that I found out everybody hated them, and it was very uncool to like Elves. I felt really un-hip, naïve, hurt, mortified, gullible, ashamed......basically the same way I felt in ninth grade when I told people I liked The Donny and Marie Show . Finrod Felagund still my favorite character though, with the Dwarves a close second. Gandalf’s pretty cool too; especially when he gets irritable and ticked off. He’s got Arnold beat with the one-liners as well. Maybe for youtube I’ll make an overdubbed video of Gandalf as he’s just about to fall from the bridge saying; "I’ll be back" in the Arnold voice. It would probably look like an old Godzilla movie with the voice overdub though, so a Japanese Gandalf with the Arnold voice would be needed, and the Balrog would have to be a mini Godzilla.

PS - Time for some coffee


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 12, 2009)

Bucky said:


> *That sounds like it should be right but....*
> 
> *'Now King Thingol welcomed not with a full heart the coming of so many princes in might out of the West, eager for new realms; and he would not open his kingdom, nor remove it's girdle of enchantment...Alone of the princes of the Noldor those of Finarfin's house were suffered to pass within the confines of Doriath.''*
> 
> ...


 
No, but the question was based on LOTR, which is also where I had my first impression. Yes, after first impressions you get to see the "uglier" side, including the kinslaying and so on, the cruel acts of Caranthir and Eol the list does indeed go on. Thankyou for bringing this up though, because for me I always overlook these things because I want the elves to continue to meet my first impression. I think though, that because of the experiences the elves had in the First Age, it helps them to grow and they see their mistakes. This then makes them who they are in LOTR, and we see in Gildor the "improved elf." Third Age elves seem much purer and wholesome than others.

Then again, as my thoughts develop I realise that there are two parts. Mainly there is Feanor, and those of his lineage tend to perform more cruel acts. There are some exceptions to this (Eol) but those of other "houses" tend to be more the "better" elf. Even Galadriel who followed Feanor early on showed the continued darkness in her when she imagined herself as a "Dark Queen" but after she conquered this she is allowed to "pass into the West" and it adds to her quality of character. But, going back to the original question, Gildor is the stereotypical elf, which I think was Tolkien's purpose.

No doubt Bucky, you have an even better point which I am not aware of  It seems to be our role on this website


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## Tyelkormo (Feb 12, 2009)

Noldor_returned said:


> Then again, as my thoughts develop I realise that there are two parts. Mainly there is Feanor, and those of his lineage tend to perform more cruel acts. There are some exceptions to this (Eol) but those of other "houses" tend to be more the "better" elf. Even Galadriel who followed Feanor early on showed the continued darkness in her when she imagined herself as a "Dark Queen" but after she conquered this she is allowed to "pass into the West" and it adds to her quality of character. But, going back to the original question, Gildor is the stereotypical elf, which I think was Tolkien's purpose.


 
I disagree. Thingol was a petty jerk who imprisoned his own daughter because she was in love with the "wrong" man and sent said man on what he believed to be a suicide mission. Olwe was as possessive with the creation of his hands as the Noldor were with theirs - and speaking of other houses of the Noldor, Turgon sacrificed a large part of his people because he was so infatuated with his city that he threw Ulmo's warning into the wind.


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 12, 2009)

Two words?

Nobody's perfect.



I think if the elves didn't make mistakes, nobody could relate to them. At first (in LOTR) they seem amazing, but as you learn more about them, you see that they are closer to mankind than first thought.


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## Tyelkormo (Feb 12, 2009)

Noldor_returned said:


> Two words?
> 
> Nobody's perfect.


 
This doesn't correlate with your suggestions of a discrepancy between the different houses. The vice of greed and overpossessiveness is present in all of them.


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## Bucky (Feb 12, 2009)

Tyelkormo said:


> I disagree. Thingol was a petty jerk who imprisoned his own daughter because she was in love with the "wrong" man and sent said man on what he believed to be a suicide mission. Olwe was as possessive with the creation of his hands as the Noldor were with theirs - and speaking of other houses of the Noldor, Turgon sacrificed a large part of his people because he was so infatuated with his city that he threw Ulmo's warning into the wind.




*Thingol starts right off the bat by not welcoming the Noldor on their return. He instantly gets jealous & warns them who is the big dog in the neighborhood.
His pride finally causes his death by pompously telling off the Dwarves who remade the Nauglamir despite the fact that he's all alone with them in a dangerous position (not that I haven't done something like that, lol).

Olwe, we should remember, not only doesn't want to give up his precious ships, he wants to dissuade Feanor from leaving in his folly.

Turgon, I think he felt that he was secure in his secret city. However, Ulmo leads him there & has him leave the mail in Nevrast in case danger draws near....
Here comes Tuor from Nevrast in that very mail & Turgon ignores him - bad move indeed.


I must agree that the Elves in TLOR do 'act' better, but like Gildor, when Frodo goes to him for advice, they tend to 'say both yea & nay' (or in other words, neither). They have become totally ineffective as allies, at least in a proactive way.


*


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 12, 2009)

Bucky said:


> *I must agree that the Elves in TLOR do 'act' better, but like Gildor, when Frodo goes to him for advice, they tend to 'say both yea & nay' (or in other words, neither). They have become totally ineffective as allies, at least in a proactive way.*


 
But the time of the elves is over. Win or lose, they didn't care what happened. Sure, they wanted evil to be vanquished but if it wasn't, what did it matter to them? That said, they still didn't refuse help to those who asked. I wouldn't say they are ineffective in a proactive way either. Mirkwood was assailed. Lorien was assailed. Both fought to prevent the spread of darkness, and for them to lend aid to Rohan/Gondor would be of little use. Legolas was part of the Fellowship. How much more proactive can you get?

It seems that Rivendell and Lindon are the only elven havens which did not contribute, and even so Lindon is a fair distance away, while Rivendell helped how they could. They raised Aragorn, when they could have declined assistance. The elves helped out, for no benefit of their own.


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## Bucky (Feb 12, 2009)

Noldor_returned said:


> I wouldn't say they are ineffective in a proactive way either. Mirkwood was assailed. Lorien was assailed. Both fought to prevent the spread of darkness, and for them to lend aid to Rohan/Gondor would be of little use. Legolas was part of the Fellowship. How much more proactive can you get?
> 
> .



*I hate to mince words, but, 
Fighting back when attacking is reactive, not proactive.

Legolas going with the Fellowship, Elreond says both he and Gimli are "willking to go as far as the passes of the mountains" as they are on their way home to Wilderland & their path lies with the company for many miles.
Hardly a ringing endorsement of solidarity.*


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok, I'll give you that 

But what did you want the elves to do? Ride out in battle, lose some of their number when they were dwindling anyway? The elves strength in latter Third Age was in secrecy and wisdom, not might of arms. They had not the power anymore. In the fall of Arnor, the elves of Rivendell fought and helped defeat Angmar. Somehow, I feel that if the elves could have done more they would have. They just didn't have the power anymore.


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## Bucky (Feb 13, 2009)

Noldor_returned said:


> Ok, I'll give you that
> 
> But what did you want the elves to do? Ride out in battle, lose some of their number when they were dwindling anyway? The elves strength in latter Third Age was in secrecy and wisdom, not might of arms. They had not the power anymore. In the fall of Arnor, the elves of Rivendell fought and helped defeat Angmar. Somehow, I feel that if the elves could have done more they would have. They just didn't have the power anymore.



*No, I didn't want them to do anything either way ....

I'm just saying how things were.

Good point about helping out against Angmar however. One could argue that this was proactive on their part because they obviously would've been next on Angmar's list*


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 14, 2009)

I think part of the reason for lack of "proactivity" might also be that the elves were not a hasty people. Sure, in the White Council Galadriel and Gandalf pushed for a move against Dol Guldur, but this was only when they were definite of what was there. Saruman managed to convince them that it was not necessary until later, but this was still another precautionary/proactive move. The elves tend not to do anything until they can no longer ignore it, much like the Ents.


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## Bucky (Feb 14, 2009)

Well, I think the 2 Noldorin lead Realms are sitting pretty with their leaders holding their Elven Rings which are holding off the ravages of time & not only protecting the realms but creating a little utopia........

Then, The Wood Elves certainly didn't have the power to attack anybody themselves.....

While Cirdan is far from any trouble & basically just building ships for the Eldar to get out of Dodge on.


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 14, 2009)

Bucky said:


> Well, I think the 2 Noldorin lead Realms are sitting pretty with their leaders holding their Elven Rings which are holding off the ravages of time & not only protecting the realms but creating a little utopia........
> 
> Then, The Wood Elves certainly didn't have the power to attack anybody themselves.....
> 
> While Cirdan is far from any trouble & basically just building ships for the Eldar to get out of Dodge on.


 
In a nutshell 

I have another question I just thought of: Why is there such an emphasis on the majesty of the elves in LOTR, rather than dwarves? Sure, the dwarves had the Hobbit but that's not quite the same. Why are elves given greater focus than dwarves? Moria is empty of dwarves, and apart from that the only information we get on dwarves are from Gimli and Gloin at Rivendell. Elves flitter in and out, but dwarves seem to be missing.


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## Starbrow (Feb 14, 2009)

Since I read The Hobbit first, my first impression of the elves is that they were playful and happy. I miss that aspect of them in LOTR.


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Feb 17, 2009)

As I continue my more intensive reread of LotR, I noticed something about Lothlorien that I never paid any attention to before.

As the company heads down the Anduin, Sam notices that the moon is new again, indicating that a month had passed when he only thought it had been a little under two weeks. Legolas explains that time does not magically change in Elven strongholds, but no longer has the same sense to it. In other words, the mortal company was experiencing time in Lothlorien as an immortal Elf would, watching the world pass quickly (Aragorn mentions that the enemy continued to move quickly while the lingered with the elves), and time to seem to pass slowly because they do not take note of the passing of days when there is no end to a life.

Why is it that these immortals could suddenly experience time differently just because they are in a realm where immortals live? This does not happen in Rivendell or in Mirkwood (in The Hobbit). And after all, this is still a place on Middle Earth and not in Valimar.

Frodo mentions the possibility of the power of Galadriel's ring when he states:



> But the wearing [of time] is slow in Lorien...The power of the Lady is on it. Rich are the hours, though short they seem in Caras Galadhon, where Galadrien wields the Elven-ring.



Do you believe in Frodo's reasoning? Are there other reasons that time might feel different in Lorien? Or other magical properties you notice about the Elves in LotR?


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Feb 17, 2009)

Sorry Noldor_Returned, forgot to reply to your question.

As far as the majesty of the elves (and I don't have a copy of the Sil handy so forgive me), but wasn't it mentioned in the Ainulindalië that because (Manwë???) had created the dwarves first, not respecting the natural order of Illuvatar's plan for the Elves (the firstborn), that 1. The Dwarves would have to sleep under the mountains until the Elves were born and 2. something to the effect of them being more ill-mannered than the Elves and having a strained friendship with them?

I am pulling this out of the convines of my limited memory, so it would be great if somebody who has a copy handy would please check it out to help clarify.

But it seems natural to me that the firstborn (and the creation of Illuvatar himself and not one of the Valar) would be more majestic than any other creation on middle earth. Also, they have immortality, so they have plenty of time to learn new crafts, and manners, and languages, and song. The sheer history of the Elves is what makes them so majestic if not for the additional theological (or mythological, if you prefer) reasons.


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## Noldor_returned (Feb 18, 2009)

No probs, pay that. But why is there less attention to dwarves? I understand that elves are greater. No arguments, but why are dwarves seemingly missing?

As to your questions...

I think that Lothlorien is supposed to be so far removed and greater than anything that normal conditions do not apply. Rivendell is amazing, no doubts, but Lothlorien is given so much splendour...they always speak of the Lord and Lady of the Wood, rather than the Half-elven Lord of the vale. Elrond's power also lay in the waters which he used against the Nazgul, Gandalf with his ability of fire duelled with the Balrog and a few other pieces of wizardry. But how to show the Ring of the Air? wind isn't exactly the most noble of nature's pieces, and so instead time is altered. That's the best theory I can come up with


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## Aglarband (Feb 18, 2009)

Noldor_returned said:


> No probs, pay that. But why is there less attention to dwarves? I understand that elves are greater. No arguments, but why are dwarves seemingly missing?
> 
> As to your questions...
> 
> I think that Lothlorien is supposed to be so far removed and greater than anything that normal conditions do not apply. Rivendell is amazing, no doubts, but Lothlorien is given so much splendour...they always speak of the Lord and Lady of the Wood, rather than the Half-elven Lord of the vale. Elrond's power also lay in the waters which he used against the Nazgul, Gandalf with his ability of fire duelled with the Balrog and a few other pieces of wizardry. But how to show the Ring of the Air? wind isn't exactly the most noble of nature's pieces, and so instead time is altered. That's the best theory I can come up with



That makes an incredible amount of sense when you think about it. Place something in a ziploc bag and it won't go stale as fast. I've always had problems looking at the Elves without thinking about how they were first introduced in The Hobbit, I know that many changes were made to the narrative before the Lord of the Rings was published but the Elves are still made out to be a merry and childish, all the while remaining wise. They don't entirely lose this quality in LOTR, but either the events between The Hobbit and Fellowship had been so dampening to the Elves or it is something Tolkien never quite fixed in The Hobbit.


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## Bucky (Feb 18, 2009)

Lady_of_Gondor said:


> Sorry Noldor_Returned, forgot to reply to your question.
> 
> As far as the majesty of the elves (and I don't have a copy of the Sil handy so forgive me), but wasn't it mentioned in the Ainulindalië that because (Manwë???) had created the dwarves first, not respecting the natural order of Illuvatar's plan for the Elves (the firstborn), that 1. The Dwarves would have to sleep under the mountains until the Elves were born and 2. something to the effect of them being more ill-mannered than the Elves and having a strained friendship with them?
> 
> ...



*Aule created the Dwarves.....

Nothing about the Dwarves & Elves having strained relationships because of it. What you are referring to is Yavanna creating (or more precisely, asking Eru to create) the Ents. She tells Aule because he did not consult her in creating the Dwarves, 'there will be small love between their children'.

The problem between the Dwarves & Elves stems from the falling out with the incident betwee Thingol & the Dwarves of Nogrod over the Nauglamir & the silmaril & (allegded) non-payment. *


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## Illuin (Feb 18, 2009)

> Originally posted by Noldor returned
> _Elrond's power also lay in the waters which he used against the Nazgul, Gandalf with his ability of fire duelled with the Balrog and a few other pieces of wizardry. But how to show the Ring of the Air? wind isn't exactly the most noble of nature's pieces, and so instead time is altered. That's the best theory I can come up with_


 
Curiously, it was Galadriel who had _Nenya, the Ring of Water_; and it was Elrond who had _Vilya, the Ring of Air_. I’m still not sure if Tolkien made a boo-boo or not .


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## Bucky (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah, I always wondered at that too.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 23, 2009)

Noldor_returned said:


> Third Age elves seem much purer and wholesome than others.



That's cause all the unwholesome ones have long since kicked the bucket. 

I think all of the (negative) examples in this thread show that the elves are not indeed perfect, and in fact stray far from perfection in many instances. The Vanyar I guess come closest to perfection, but that may be because they show what seems like a natural lack of restlessness and wanderlust, so they never put themselves in a situation where they would be tempted by evil or forced to do something "wrong".

Re: Cirdan, I don't think this guy is getting enough recognition. Speaking of the Third Age only, he also helped greatly in the wars against Angmar and wasn't it him who sent a ship to rescue Arvedui from the ice bay up north? Anyhow, I would say the elves have always done a lot to fight against evil, but as the years went by, they began to grow tired of conflict, so that by the end of the Third Age it seemed like they were doing very little, especially when compared to the First or Second Ages.


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## Starflower (Mar 13, 2009)

Illuin said:


> Curiously, it was Galadriel who had _Nenya, the Ring of Water_; and it was Elrond who had _Vilya, the Ring of Air_. I’m still not sure if Tolkien made a boo-boo or not .





> Who made the flood?' asked Frodo.
> 'Elrond commanded it,' answered Gandalf. `The river of this valley is under his power, and it will rise in anger when he has great need to bar the Ford.



I think that the power Elrond had was not specifically in the water, but rather that the river ran through Rivendell and was thus part of his realm. Not sure how the 'Air' element ties into it though...
But as for Galadriel, wasn't the Mirror made of water?


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## Noldor_returned (Mar 13, 2009)

Starflower said:


> I think that the power Elrond had was not specifically in the water, but rather that the river ran through Rivendell and was thus part of his realm. Not sure how the 'Air' element ties into it though...
> But as for Galadriel, wasn't the Mirror made of water?


 
I beg to differ, for the first part. You say Elrond did not control the river, but that is the opposite of what the quote you provided says. In the quote Gandalf clearly states that Elrond commands the river, not the realm of Rivendell. Had it been the other way round, and Gandalf says "Elrond commands Rivendell and the waterways in its boundaries" then fair enough. But no, I think that with the power of the ring of water he was able to use the river, rather than commanding a larger area which has other aspects like rock, trees etc.

And as for the Mirror being water, it could very well be. But at the same time, does not the Anduin flow through? And how would the air be manipulated except for the reduced effect of time? I think the Mirror is part of the "magic of the elves" not related to rings of power, as are the cloaks and rope.


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## Illuin (Mar 14, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Noldor_returned*
> _But no, I think that with the power of the ring of water he was able to use the river, rather than commanding a larger area which has other aspects like rock, trees etc._


 
Are you saying that Elrond borrowed the _Ring of Water_ from his mother in-law from time to time? I guess it’s entirely possible that Elrond and Galadriel were in cahoots when using the power of the Rings; but I don’t recall anything written about the two of them becoming the "Wonder Twins". _"Wonder Twin Powers.....Activate! In the shape of.....Horses! In the form of.....Water!" _


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## Noldor_returned (Mar 15, 2009)

Sorry, my bad.

Ok, Gandalf almost definitely used Narya to increase his manipulations of fire.

As for Nenya, I do not see much power over water by Galadriel. I think much of her magic came from her own power, although the ability to protect Lorien's boundaries which are helped with the River Anduin may be some aspect. Perhaps because the Lorien elves wished to remain secret, they used Nenya to affect the water in a way that would continue their protection.

Then we have Vilya, with which Elrond could have used to command his surrounds. After all, why could a strong wind not affect the waterway so that the waves become horses?

But as someone said earlier, maybe Tolkien meant for Elrond having Nenya and Galdariel having Vilya, but it slipped his mind? Perhaps when he wrote the names he had a lot on his mind?


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## Úlairi (Mar 15, 2009)

Illuin said:


> Are you saying that Elrond borrowed the _Ring of Water_ from his mother in-law from time to time? I guess it’s entirely possible that Elrond and Galadriel were in cahoots when using the power of the Rings; but I don’t recall anything written about the two of them becoming the "Wonder Twins". _"Wonder Twin Powers.....Activate! In the shape of.....Horses! In the form of.....Water!" _


 
Don't know if you got a little TV show in the States called _Captain Planet_; although I assume that's where the show came from - you know the one that ripped _The Lord of the Rings _off blind?



> _Captain Planet_
> 
> *Earth! *
> *Fire! *
> ...


 
I used to love that show when I was a kid... I was a troubled kid... obviously. 

Should start a _Lord of the Rings Rip-off Thread_...











































....and call it _The Harry Potter Thread_. That's right TTF, come get me! 

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Noldor_returned (Mar 16, 2009)

Úlairi said:


> Don't know if you got a little TV show in the States called _Captain Planet_; although I assume that's where the show came from - you know the one that ripped _The Lord of the Rings _off blind?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yes, many a great memory has been had over Captain Planet. Especially the use of rings and stuff. But if you were going to start a LOTR ripoff thread why not simply call it Eragon?

*ducks*

Maybe what you're saying is right though? Maybe with the powers combined there was a Captain Middle-Earth? Aragorn? Let's see...he came into contact with each of them but never possessed any, was the heir to Isildur's Bane...maybe Aragorn is Captain Planet/a greater impact on elves than we thought.


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## Haleth (May 21, 2009)

When I read LotR I got the impression that the Elves were sort of just there. They're almost like living monuments of a time long past.

Then I found this quote in the LotR Appendix B, The Tale of Years about Elves in the Third Age:

"These were the fading years of the Eldar. For long they were at peace, wielding the Three Rings while Sauron slept and the One Ring was lost; but they attempted nothing new, living in memory of the past."

I always wondered how a lifespan of thousands and thousands of years would affect someone. As time passes for the Elves and the years behind them grow in number, I imagine the past takes up an ever larger part in their minds until it blots out both the present and the future. This clinging to the past I think is the true reason why the Elves are fading during the Third Age, or at least it contributes to it greatly. 

The impression I got from Elves in LotR is that they appear to be a people who can't deal with change very well; it is hard for them to accept it and adapt to it. The inability to deal with this intrinsic aspect of Middle-earth has caused them to distance themselves - they live in Middle-earth and yet they have removed themselves from it as far as they could without outright leaving. They live in closed off communities that barely interact with the outside world. They cling to this comfort zone, lamenting any change (note how words such as "wear", "fading", "decline" are used when the text speaks about Elven perception of time's passage and its effects on their surroundings). 

When I first read about Gildor, I got the impression that he is reluctant to give any advice because he isn't all that sure any advice he would give would actually do good rather than harm. He's ust very cautious and he sort of doesn't want that weight of responsibility on his shoulders - the responsibility of giving someone advice. For all of their long lives and supposed wisdom, the Elves have managed to fork things up royally several times during history. I also thought that in a spiritual and emotional sense Gildor and the Elves accompanying him were already with one foot in Aman. They were on their way to the Grey Havens. This would mean that they would want to avoid getting involved with anything to do with Middle-earth.


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## Tar-Surion (Jun 7, 2009)

"Snow white, snow white oh Lady clear. Oh Queen beyond the Western Seas. A light to we who wander here, amidst a world of woven trees."

My first impression of Elves was awe and delight. Beautiful, immortal, spiritual yet close to earth and delighting in comeliness of living things.

I love the Elves more than any other people in LoTR; unfallen beings, people as they should have been, grown wise through long years and many sorrows.

To me the greatest thing about Tolkien, and they are many, is his power to evoke goodness, virtue and beauty without the pomposity and priggishness that seem to accompany them in our world.

It is easy to write of ugliness and horror, we are so familiar with them; to write of the opposite takes the highest insight, imagination and skill.

I love the Elves and I still do. I wish they would return and help us repair the creation that we have so wantonly defiled.


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