# Gil-Galad's death... unavoidable?



## Dáin Ironfoot I (Mar 8, 2004)

If Gil-Galad had not given his ring to Elrond before the Last Alliance, would he have survived 'the heat of Sauron's body?' 

I'd imagine the Ring of Wind would have cooled him down a bit, right?


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## Bombadillo (Mar 8, 2004)

Dáin Ironfoot I said:


> If Gil-Galad had not given his ring to Elrond before the Last Alliance, would he have survived 'the heat of Sauron's body?'
> 
> I'd imagine the Ring of Wind would have cooled him down a bit, right?



maybe but the risk that an elven ring fell in the hands of sauron.... it'a just too great a risk.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 8, 2004)

Dáin Ironfoot I said:


> If Gil-Galad had not given his ring to Elrond before the Last Alliance, would he have survived 'the heat of Sauron's body?'


I don't think it'd have any bearing on the battle. It may also have been a safety precaution to leave the ring in safe hands, like Bombadillo notes. But then again, Elrond was also present at the big battle. I don't think Sauron could have made much use of an Elven ring, if he obtained one. And also, it was a battle of utter victory or defeat. If Sauron had been victorious, had the greater power in arms, etc...why would it matter if he obtained, not only one, but all three Elven rings? (assuming he had enough power to humble all of Middle-Earth afterwards)



Dáin Ironfoot I said:


> I'd imagine the Ring of Wind would have cooled him down a bit, right?


Or fuel the fire even more.  Oh, and it's the Ring of _Air_, but that's close enough.


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## Gothmog (Mar 8, 2004)

> I don't think Sauron could have made much use of an Elven ring, if he obtained one.


Are you sure of this?

9 lesser Elven Rings = 9 Ringwriths.
7 lesser Elven Rings stirred up the Greed in the Dwarves causing trouble in that race.

Sauron may well have made great use of one of the three Great Elven Rings in ways that the Elves could not. He did after all know far more about such Rings than the Elven-smiths.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 8, 2004)

> I don't think Sauron could have made much use of an Elven ring, if he obtained one.


Ah, I meant he couldn't make use of GG's ring since he was defeated by Isildur a little later on. But crafting the Rings of Power was a joint endeavour, and even though Sauron had a part in the making of the Seven and the Nine, he did not participate in the forging of the Three (except by providing knowledge), so I'm a little skeptic about him using the Three to a similar purpose as the other rings.


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## Gothmog (Mar 8, 2004)

> Ah, I meant he couldn't make use of GG's ring since he was defeated by Isildur a little later on.


In this I agree with you. 



> But crafting the Rings of Power was a joint endeavour, and even though Sauron had a part in the making of the Seven and the Nine, he did not participate in the forging of the Three (except by providing knowledge), so I'm a little skeptic about him using the Three to a similar purpose as the other rings.


It was a joint endevour in that Sauron only gave the Elves enough knowledge to be able to make the rings in the way that *He* wanted them to be made. Had they come into his hands he probably had ways to corrupt them, or indeed, since the Elves made them to preserve all things in Middle-earth un-corrupted by time he could have used them as they were to increase the effectiveness of his power in ME.


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## Maerbenn (Mar 9, 2004)

Dáin Ironfoot I said:


> If Gil-Galad had not given his ring to Elrond before the Last Alliance, would he have survived 'the heat of Sauron's body?'


I do not think that Gil-galad would have been of much use in the War, at least not for the Alliance. From letter #131:


> … Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end could utterly enslave them. He reckoned, however, without the wisdom and subtle perceptions of the Elves. The moment he assumed the One, they were aware of it, and of his secret purpose, and were afraid. They hid the Three Rings, so that not even Sauron ever discovered where they were and they remained unsullied. The others they tried to destroy.


As far as I know, in the Second Age, the Three were only used in the period between the years 1590 (Forging of the Three) and 1600 (Forging of the One).


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## HLGStrider (Mar 14, 2004)

Then do you think the "hiding" of the ring was the actual giving of it to Elrond? I always assumed this was sort of a mental action, a concealment of strength of will. I didn't think they actually put them in safes somewhere, in fact it is quite obvious that they didn't. All three rings are still being worn. Was the Ring less visible on Elrond? Then why didn't Galadriel likewise give her ring to a lesser Elf? Or did Gil-Gilad not have the will to hide the ring from Sauron? Or more likely did Gil-Gilad have to present himself openly to sucessfully fight Sauron and therefore was he unable to hide himself?


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## Confusticated (Mar 14, 2004)

In the letter? I think he was probably refering to the taking the rings to Lindon from Eregion. Wording just suggests that to me. That he also mentons elves trying to destroy lesser rings in the next sentence makes it sound as if he was talking about the actions taken directly after Sauron's purpose was discovered. But they also would have hid them by will.



> Then why didn't Galadriel likewise give her ring to a lesser Elf?



Galadriel give up a Ring of Power?  She needed it for Lothlorien though. She was among Moriquendi.... and would have had the most power to use the Ring and to hid it, I think. On the other hand Elrond used his for Rivendell and should not have been the most powerful there.


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## HLGStrider (Mar 14, 2004)

It would be more obvious to give the most powerful ring to Galadriel. I guess she just got unlucky. . .Gil-Gilad was the obvious choice before Galadriel, but not Elrond over Galadriel. . .sigh. . .


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 14, 2004)

> I guess she just got unlucky.


That's not necessarily the case. After Sauron forged the One and declared himself, Celebrimbor went to _Lórien _first to consult Galadriel, not to the High-King Gil-galad. It may be that she was given Nenya, or even chose it herself, latently longing for the Sea, and consequently - Valinor. She counseled him that he should hide the other two somewhere safe. I think Celebrimbor, being a Noldo, would want to see his creations in the hands of the Noldor, so Galadriel and Gil-galad were the obvious choices, since Elrond's Noldorin heritage was somewhat 'dimmed' by his Sindarin predecessors. 

By the way, Elrond is IMO greater than Gil-galad.


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