# Funerals and burial practices of the Eldar



## Sons of the Woodland King (Dec 3, 2022)

I've done a bit of research on this topic and couldn't really find many specific details, so I thought I would seek the counsel of our very well-read community here. 

It's my understanding that Elves value life deeply, which is why I'm surprised there isn't much said in the books about their burial customs. I remember the case of Miriel's body being tended to by the servants of Irmo in Lorien, but she was obviously a special case. Then there were the warriors buried in Dagorlad (after the War of the Last Alliance) who were then later on swept into the Dead Marshes; at least through this we know the Elves buried their dead. However, this was during wartime, and not much detail is given about rites there either.

Are there any more examples of funerals or details/specifics mentioned elsewhere that I might have missed?

Oh, and while we're on this topic--do Elven bodies decay similarly to that of other races, or do they somehow last longer, or perhaps are even immune to decaying over time?


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## Ent (Dec 4, 2022)

What a brilliant question. "To the books I go".
And I'm sure there are others who will weigh in on this soon.
We should come up with a Wiki on this subject covering the various races, too. 
hhmmmmm...


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## Olorgando (Dec 4, 2022)

This could be a needle-in haystack search.
Just on matter of principle, Elves did not die in the normal course of their existence. Miriel's case was utterly singular - like so much to do with Fëanor. I don't recall what happened to her hröa, it all happened in Valinor, the land of the deathless, after all ... while on the topic of Fëanor, he didn't need a funeral as his fiery fëa "consumed" his hröa (I paraphrase). Makes me wonder if this foreshadows how Sauron and Saruman ended at the end of the Third Age.

What happened to legions of Elves in their war on Morgoth was in that sense not normal, except that suffering mortal injuries (and rarely due to grief) were two of the ways one of the Eldar could "lose his / her hröa" in earlier ages; there is that bit about "fading" after the end of the Third Age that JRRT never made entirely clear, to my memory. As from the Battle of Sudden Flame onwards the Eldar suffered an uninterrupted series of catastrophic defeats, "burial" was mostly taken care of by their foes, the Orcs. As far as I can recall, JRRT wrote nothing about how the Eldar dealt with their fatal casualties from the earlier, victorious battle. The only mention of any sort I can recall is Fingolfin being laid to rest in the northern mountains surrounding Gondolin and that Turgon built a cairn for him.


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## Elthir (Dec 4, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Oh, and while we're on this topic--do Elven bodies decay similarly to that of other races, or do they somehow last longer, or perhaps are even immune to decaying over time?



In a text dated circa 1957-58 [_Death_ part II*** NME], it was said that Elf-bodies *"wait much longer, maintaining coherance and resisting decay, but then it would usually seem to sleep, lying passive and essaying nothing, not even the search of food, without the command of its master (. . .) but Man-bodies deserted by the fea perish swiftly"*****

** *there's also description about death in Aman in this text
*** *not always -- here there's a footnote about men's belief concerning the bodies of holy men. 


That said, in a note to a later text [a section found in_ Last Writings_, PME], Tolkien wrote that the flesh of Dwarves _"is reported to have been far slower to decay or become corrupted than that of men"_ adding:
*"(Elvish bodies robbed of their spirit quickly disintegrated and vanished)"* 

So there's two examples 

And a few other examples of burial at least: Beleg, Finrod -- a green grave "a stone set" (according to a Lay), Glorfindel a great stone-cairn (according to the very early Fall of Gondolin at least; and this was done despite fear and haste. Glorfindel was well loved).

🐾


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Dec 4, 2022)

@Olorgando and @Elthir Thank you so much for your responses and all this good information! (and also @Ent if you're still trying!) I know the details are scarce but the fact that you were able to find or remember these examples and statements is amazing. I'm grateful for any time you took to look them up. I'm so appreciative of the TF "scholars" because you guys save me a lot of time hunting for the canon facts myself. I already have limited time to do my actual fiction writing, so although I feel a bit guilty and lazy for depending on you, I'll take whatever help I can get. 

That being said, I really should eventually purchase The Complete History of Middle-earth. I'm just holding out on the hope it gets released in ebook format because I have more success in finishing books that way. 😬 

I always try to look for canon facts first to use as a basis in my fanfics; if details are non-existent or sparse, that's when I give myself permission to get creative. 

I do love the notion of Feanor's hroa being consumed by his fea, although he is indeed a once in a history-of-the-world character. The fact that Elven bodies may take longer to decay coupled with the potential lack of proper burial in wars would probably result in thousands of corpses littering the lands for many years. They could also have been eventually ravaged or eaten up by orcs (eww) or wild beast, but I hate the idea of that! Maybe the suggestion that the bodies of fallen warriors decompose quickly is a way to save them from suffering that undignified end.

Such a tragic topic. If I end up making up something in lieu of canon fact, I think I will opt for Elvish rites that are solemn and graceful; something akin to the funeral given to Theodred of Rohan perhaps.


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## Ent (Dec 4, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I'm just holding out on the hope it gets released in ebook format


9 of the 12 books of HoME are available digitally. That's how I do much of my research.
Oddly, books 10, 11 and 12 are not digital...I await those 3 myself (though I have them in paperback in the meantime. The indices in the back are pretty helpful for reducing search times in many cases.))


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## Ent (Dec 4, 2022)

@Olorgando and @Elthir have been at it for some significant time. I'm a newby so unreliable most times, outside of actual textual citations I can dredge up and confirm. But @Elthir seems to have every version of every thing that exists and is a great resource for the 'changes and revisions and all those other suppositions.' 😁 

He often invents a few things of his own to toss in, so ya gotta watch him... he IS a cat you know.


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## Elthir (Dec 4, 2022)

For the record -- if there is a record -- my personal "canon" includes the later passage ["(Elvish bodies robbed of their spirit quickly disintegrated and vanished)"], 

Feanor's death was notable, as *Gando* already noted, and the Silmarillion passage concerning Feanor's passing includes "but he had neither burial nor tomb" -- whatever that intends to mean, according to the internal author of _Quenta Silmarillion_ (not JRRT himself).




Ent said:


> He often invents a few things of his own to toss in, so ya gotta watch him... he IS a cat you know.


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## Ent (Dec 4, 2022)

@Sons of the Woodland King - so PM is out to you.
I added a couple extra books I think are useful, and available digitally.

For the 3 from HoME that aren't available digitally, when it comes to "time to choose" if you want to prioritize, I personally think the final one - Peoples of Middle Earth - would contain more useful content (first) than the other two. But of course, eventually all are are 'essential for the nerd, cat, Ent or Oliphant."


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## Ent (Dec 4, 2022)

Elthir said:


> my personal "canon" includes the later passage


Yes, I think it usually does. Unless of course it doesn't.


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## Ent (Dec 4, 2022)

If we can keep at the 'findings' I may try to put a Wiki together some day that includes what we know and don't know about death issues.
I'll jump out there and see what blather I can find elsewhere on the Web as well. 

Could include intriguing things like 'death(s) of Melkor', 'death(s) of Sauron', and so many other truly speculative subjects. 
Or maybe the Wiki and an essay on it are slightly different... 
Good thing to think on here. 

As I said... a brilliant question.


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## Elthir (Dec 4, 2022)

Ent said:


> Yes, I think it usually does. Unless of course it doesn't.





I don't like to "allow" Tolkien to forget what he published.

Forgive me, my beloved Tolkien, but . . .


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Dec 4, 2022)

I am actually so surprised to hear that this subject has not really come up in discussions before, especially given this site has been around for so long! I promise y'all, I'm not having any dark thoughts and I'm not a morbid person. When an elf inevitably dies in my stories, I just want to accurately depict the manner in which they are sent to the next life, hopefully with dignity. 😬


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## Ent (Dec 4, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I am actually so surprised to hear that this subject has not really come up in discussions before


I do think there a lot of threads that touch on the issue tangentially in the course of handling other topics.
But I’ve never seen it addressed as it’s own subject or topic, covering more than an immediate question.
And my searches haven’t uncovered any focused thread on it. 
it is curious indeed.


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## CheriptheRipper (Dec 4, 2022)

Elthir said:


> That said, in a note to a later text [a section found in_ Last Writings_, PME], Tolkien wrote that the flesh of Dwarves _"is reported to have been far slower to decay or become corrupted than that of men"_ adding:
> *"(Elvish bodies robbed of their spirit quickly disintegrated and vanished)"*
> ).


What do you mean by 'corrupted' in this context?


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## Elthir (Dec 5, 2022)

CheriptheRipper said:


> What do you mean by 'corrupted' in this context?



I'd guess by _"decay or become corrupted"_ (in the note in question), Tolkien means something like corrupt as in: "to break, separate or dissolve. Hence, to change from a sound to a putrid or putrescent state; to separate the component parts of a body, as by a natural process, which accompanied by a fetid smell." KJV dictionary [online dictionary of King James Version]

Back in the earlier text [Death], Tolkien -- even though written in the death of the_ olvar_ (plants) section, also used the wording _"decay and dissolution"_ and _"decay and putrescence"._

🐾


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## Gloranthan (Dec 6, 2022)

Others have already answered this in more detail than I could hope to, but I have always assumed elves kind of 'dissolved'. Their near immunity to disease (as well as ordinary death) would imply that the things which break down human bodies might not affect their deceased bodies. Since we don't have Elves littering the ground in perfect condition like a waxed Lenin I can only assume they 'went away' somehow. The explosive annihilation of Faenor by his inner fire might just be an especially violent version of what happens to all deceased elf bodies. But this is speculation/interpretation on my part, I have no JRRT quotes to back me up.


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