# Was it Gollum?



## Sting99 (Jan 7, 2002)

I remember when the Frodo, Sam, Pippin, and Merry first reached Bree, it said a shadow slipped in.

The man stared after the hobbits for a moment, and then he
went back into his house. As soon as his back was turned, a dark 
figure climbed in over the gate and melted into the shad-
ows of the village street.
(The Fellowship of the Ring,Pg:191 para:5)

I was wondering if it was Gollum? or was it something else?


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## Gandalf 2058 (Jan 7, 2002)

I do not believe it was gollum. I don't think he started following them until moria. I think it was probably strider. If not, then maybe a ringwraith.


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## Lantarion (Jan 7, 2002)

No, Gollum caught up with the Fellowship in Moria, when Frodo first sensed him. He had been to Mordor before that, and was presumably on some kind of orders from Sauron. But he had been locked up in Mirkwood, and he escaped.
Anyway, the 'shadow' was a Black Rider, one of the Nazgul. It is arguable whether it was the Lord of the Nazgul or just another of the eight 'regular' ones.


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## Gandalf714 (Jan 7, 2002)

I do believe my other namesake is correct here. The shadow was Aragorn. If it was a nazgul he would have attacked. Strider does say he was watching the road for Frodo when he first meets him at the inn, and that he heard Frodo say the name of Baggins should not be used, if any name should be needed Underhill should be used.


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## Lantarion (Jan 7, 2002)

But in the book, when Frodo asks about 'that stranger sitting in the corner', Butterbur says, I believe, that he has been sitting there all evening. And Aragorn would have had no need for secrecy. He didn't want to show himself to the hobbits too quickly, of course, but he had no need to be so secretive. And Nazgul aren't some brainless fighting machines. They have minds, and they are intelligent. The only time they [try to] attack the Fellowship is in the deep of night, when everybody is sleeping. And then they attack the beds, and attmpt to kill them in their sleep. [A Knife in the Dark]


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## Sting99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Thank you guys! Thats been bothering me & my brother all week!


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## Bill the Pony (Jan 7, 2002)

I agree with the Gandalfs here.

From chapter 10, when Strider is talking to the hobbits:



> . That interested me so much that I followed them here. I slipped over the gate just behind them.



So it must have been Strider. He may have been sitting in the common room all evening, because the hobbits first had dinner before they went there.
The reason for climbing over instead of just entering may be that the gate keeper, and in general the people in Bree, did not quite trust the Rangers, so he may not have let Strider in after nightfall.


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## chrome_rocknave (Jan 7, 2002)

*hmmm interesting thread..*

While reading it I assumed it was a Nazgul. I figured it wasn't Strider because he had been sitting there before the Hobbits got to the Pony. However, now I'm beginning to think that maybe it wasn't a Nazgul.... I mean they can't see and a Nazgul wouldn't do too well out in a crowded street just sniffing...


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## sigo94 (Jan 7, 2002)

I agree with the Gandalf's above.. And anyway, wouldn't a Nazgul have had a hard time 'sneaking' over the gate?

1) They wore all that armor to give them 'shape' and 'form'. Ever try to sneak anywhere wearing 100lb of metal plates, rings, etc, let alone climb over a gate?
2) The aura of fear they carried around marks them like a torch.. kinda hard to hide when everyone grows uneasy and gets scared when you're in the neighborhood..

just my $.02


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## gaffer (Jan 7, 2002)

for the record, if the aragorn theory doesn't fly (although it is true), gollum actually got trapped in moria from the east, so he couldn't have been in bree. just thought i'd throw that at you guys.


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## Anarchist (Feb 4, 2002)

I agree with Bill the Pony. It was Aragorn. I gave it a good thought when i firrst read it. I thought at first that it was a Dark Rider. But Dark Riders make other fear when they pass. I was Strider.


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## Legolam (Feb 5, 2002)

Yeah, it was Strider. he'd followed them from their parting with Bombadil and had heard Frodo say "The name of Baggins must not be mentioned. i am Underhill, if any name must be given" or words to that effect. The gatekeeper was very suspicious of the Rangers and if he had problems letting in the hobbits after nightfall, then he surely wouldn't have let Strider in.


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## ssgrif (Feb 5, 2002)

I agree with most of you here that the shadow was in fact one of the Ring Wraiths. They were already part of the storyline when the Hobbits got to Bree, and Gollum hadn't been introduced. Makes sense to me...


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## Lantarion (Feb 5, 2002)

*I was wrong?? How can this be?!*

Heh, alright alright: the Gandalfs were correct. I had completely forgotten that nifty little quote. "...I slipped over the gate just behind them." Dang! 
But it could have been one of the Ringwraiths, in theory. I don't think it is stated anywhere whether the Nazgûl were actually within the walls of Bree or just outside the gates before they got to the company at night. Ah well, shows over. Nothing to see here!


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## Snaga (Feb 5, 2002)

Ponifex posted:



> And Nazgul aren't some brainless fighting machines. They have minds, and they are intelligent. The only time they [try to] attack the Fellowship is in the deep of night, when everybody is sleeping. And then they attack the beds, and attmpt to kill them in their sleep. [A Knife in the Dark]



Pontifex I too always thought it was the Nazgul that attacked the beds in the Inn, but another thread suggested that they had instead put someone up to it - perhaps Bill Ferny, or the southerner. This would fit the statement from Aragorn that the 9 wouldn't attack the inn, they would wait until the hobbits were alone in the wild. Small but interesting point, I thought.


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## Smèagol_Gollum (Feb 9, 2002)

You're all mad. you're missing something pretty obvious. Why the hell would Aragorn go through the trouble of going over the fence!?! He could just as easily walked up to the door like the hobbits! I mean, my god, how did you all miss this? I would say it WAS Gollum, because he knew where that narsssty Bagginsss came from--the Shire. It certainly wasn't a Nazgul, who could merely have slain the doorman. Gollum wanted his Ring, yess, his Precious. No one in their right mind would have let him in if they saw him, pitiful as he was. And so, he jumped the fence.


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## Harad (Feb 9, 2002)

Gollum was lurking in Moria all this time.


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## Smèagol_Gollum (Feb 10, 2002)

Aha, but Gandalf told Frodo that Gollum had been following them for three days, before or after they left Moria , I'm not sure. If you still think it was Aragorn, please explain why he climbed over the fence.


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## Harad (Feb 10, 2002)

I never said Aragorn. My bet is a confederate of the Nazgul or Saruman or both.


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## Bill the Pony (Feb 10, 2002)

Sméagol-Gollum
As stated in my reply about 13 posts above:
Aragorn _himself_ says he *slipped over* the gate just behind them. (note this is literally copied from the book). So for sure, Aragorn climbed over. If Gollum did as well, I don't know. In the same post I gave a reason why Aragorn might prefer to climb over instead of knock on the gate. Somehow you seem to think that's not a good enough reason. Please tell me why.

Another one might be that Aragorn did not trust Harry the gatekeeper, as shown in this quote where A is talking about the ringwraiths:


> But their power is in terror, and already some in Bree are in their clutch. They will drive these wretches to some evil work: Ferny, and some of the strangers, and, maybe, the gatekeeper too. They had words with Harry at West-gate on Monday. I was watching them. He was white and shaking when they left him.'


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## Harad (Feb 10, 2002)

BtP:

Thanks for pointing out the quote above, again. Its certainly Aragorn, based upon the timing--right after the Hobbits, and his statement. Your explanation as to "why" sounds correct to me as well.


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## Bill the Pony (Feb 10, 2002)

Goodness, that's two compliments from Harad within 20 minutes. I must be doing something wrong...


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## Smèagol_Gollum (Feb 10, 2002)

*Aight!*

I relent! I suppose it could well have been Aragorn, I just always thought it would have been cooler if Gollum had been the one. But I believe you're right now. Good for you.


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## Goro Shimura (Feb 10, 2002)

Hey Bill...

How _did_ you make it back to Rivendale??

I used to think it was just luck... but I'm beginning to think it was more due to intelligence!


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## Bill the Pony (Feb 10, 2002)

You know, Goro, on hindsight, I wish I had gone back to Rivendell, but back then I wasn't as wise as that yet. So, after many adventures I would rather forget, I ended up back in Bree in Butterbur's stable.


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## Goro Shimura (Feb 10, 2002)

Doh!

Corrected by a pony!

Say... can you help me with my calculus homework?


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## daisy (Feb 10, 2002)

*Moria*

Doesn't Gollum make his presence known for the first time to the Fellowship in Moria? I am talking about the book, of course, not the film.

daisy

*****deleted by moderator*************
Grond


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## Bucky (Feb 11, 2002)

Anyways, back to the original question in the start of the thread (don't you just hate when somebody says that? I do....:

It is most definitely Aragorn, as has already been stated.
Another reason why Aragorn hopped the wall is stated in the chapter Strider:
"I did not intend to tell you all about myself at once. I had to study YOU first, & make sure of you. The Enemy has set traps for me before now."

What was Strider supposed to do?
Go up to the Hobbits at the gate & say "Excuse me, I'm Aragorn, Isildur's heir. Glad to meet you. Which one of you is Mr. Underhill? Did you remember all that to tell the Black Riders, Harry?"


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gandalf 2058 _
> *I do not believe it was gollum. I don't think he started following them until moria. I think it was probably strider. If not, then maybe a ringwraith. *




I think so 2 but i seem 2 lean towards a ringwraith then strider.


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## aragil (Feb 11, 2002)

I honestly can not remember a seen with the Ringwraiths where all the characters are not described as getting a queazy feeling. From the time Frodo hear's the one speaking with the Gaffer, right through the time Frodo senses the Witch King issuing forth from the Morgul Vale, the Black Riders always seem to give away their presence. Tolkien also always takes the trouble to tell us such. If that shadow was a black rider, then it was either the only time that the Nazgul weren't sending out 'the vibe', or it was the only time that the good professor forgot to mention it. I'm going with it being Aragorn (or at least Aragorn's shadow).


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## Bucky (Feb 11, 2002)

There really is no room for 'I tend to think it was Gollum/Black Rider/Tom Bombadil/Saron Et all.
Strider plainly states HE slipped over the wall soon after the Hobbits arrived.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 11, 2002)

vcOTE]_Originally posted by aragil _
*I honestly can not remember a seen with the Ringwraiths where all the characters are not described as getting a queazy feeling. From the time Frodo hear's the one speaking with the Gaffer, right through the time Frodo senses the Witch King issuing forth from the Morgul Vale, the Black Riders always seem to give away their presence. Tolkien also always takes the trouble to tell us such. If that shadow was a black rider, then it was either the only time that the Nazgul weren't sending out 'the vibe', or it was the only time that the good professor forgot to mention it. I'm going with it being Aragorn (or at least Aragorn's shadow). *[/QUOTE]



It is very hard for them not 2 be noticed especially when theyr'nt  clad because the scared everyone so badly their presence would have to be felt. Thats why sauron had 2 choose between secrecy and pace.


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## Gaffa Gamgee (Feb 12, 2002)

If it were any of the Nazgul, his mere presence would have driven Frodo mad because of the "pull" of the ring. If it was Gollum, it would have driven HIM mad. Aragorn has been proved in the posts above, although for years I always took it to be was Bill Ferny, after whom the horse was named. Bill was in the Prancing Pony and witnessed Frodo disappear. He told the Nazgul what had happened, earned himself the expected reward. He is mentioned elswhere in the chapter that he was a known villain in Bree). 

But now agree it WAS Aragorn. Good thread.


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## Harad (Feb 12, 2002)

C'mon all. *Read* the Posts above. 

Bill the Pony conclusively proves it was Aragorn:



> But there was something in the look and the voice of the gatekeeper that made him uneasy. The man stared after the hobbits for a moment, and then he went back to his house. As soon as his back was turned, a dark figure climbed quickly in over the gate and melted into the shadows of the village street.





> 'too much; too many dark things, - said Strider grimly. - But as for your business - He got up and went to the door, opened it quickly and looked out. Then he shut it quietly and sat down again. - I have quick ears, - he went on, lowering his voice, - and though I cannot disappear, I have hunted many wild and wary things and I can usually avoid being seen, if I wish. Now, I was behind the hedge this evening on the Road west of Bree, when four hobbits came out of the Downlands. I need not repeat all that they said to old Bombadil or to one another, but one thing interested me. Please remember, said one of them, that the name Baggins must not be mentioned. I am Mr. Underhill, if any name must be given. That interested me so much that I followed them here. I slipped over the gate just behind them. maybe Mr. Baggins has an honest reason for leaving his name behind; but if so, I should advise him and his friends to be more careful.



*THIS IS A CASE CLOSED*


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## ssgrif (Feb 19, 2002)

I'm currently reading the LOTR again, and have just past the chapter covering the teams visit to Bree. 

They did see a dark shadow climb over the fence after they passed through, but after they meet up with Strider, he himself admits to Frodo that it was him. He'd been following them for some time since their meeting with Tom Bombadil.

I think this should conclude the arguement!


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## Bill the Pony (Feb 19, 2002)

sigh...


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## ssgrif (Feb 19, 2002)

ahhhh, Dont be upset Bill the Pony, You can carry on posting if you like! I know how much it means to you, go on, go on....


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## Iru Illuvitar (Oct 2, 2015)

Smèagol_Gollum said:


> You're all mad. you're missing something pretty obvious. Why the hell would Aragorn go through the trouble of going over the fence!?! He could just as easily walked up to the door like the hobbits! I mean, my god, how did you all miss this? I would say it WAS Gollum, because he knew where that narsssty Bagginsss came from--the Shire. It certainly wasn't a Nazgul, who could merely have slain the doorman. Gollum wanted his Ring, yess, his Precious. No one in their right mind would have let him in if they saw him, pitiful as he was. And so, he jumped the fence.


It couldn't have been Gollum because he was returning west through Moria at this time. When he met them in Moria it was buy mere chance because he had been lost in there for weeks. It also wouldn't have been the nazgul because they would have just attacked them on the road before they reached the gate. So I believe it was Aragorn. He even stated himself that he slipped over the gate behind them.


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## CMParish (Feb 22, 2017)

Strider slipped in over the fence because he suspected Bree had agents of the Dark Lord watching, such as Harry, the Gatekeeper. Just as he hoped to leave Bree unnoticed, he would have wanted to enter it the same way.


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## Gigantor (Apr 6, 2017)

Gandalf 2058 said:


> I do not believe it was gollum. I don't think he started following them until moria. I think it was probably strider. If not, then maybe a ringwraith.


It was Strider. The Ringwraiths go around breaking down doors, not climbing over stuff.


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