# Military organization of Mordor



## Aldarion (Jan 11, 2020)

Another one I wrote. Link:








Military Organization of Mordor


Armies of Mordor Issue of free will and discipline Orcs are sometimes believed to not have free will, but this appears to be incorrect. Witch-King commands with fear, which would be unnecessary if …




militaryfantasy.home.blog





The gist is basically that Mordor is organized in a manner much more similar to modern armies, which contrasts Gondor's more medieval structure (though Gondor's military is actually based on Byzantine thematic system, so it is far from feudal disorganization itself).


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## Halasían (Jan 11, 2020)

Interesting speculation based on what little information Tolkien gives us. I have always seen the Mouth of Sauron more of Sauron's 'Chief of Staff' and/or the Minister of Domestic Affairs keeping the war machine production and supply going (think Alber Speer) whereas the Nazgul, under the leadership of the Lord of the Nazgul (Witch King) when they weren't operating on their own or in pairs or smaller groups, to be more 'field commanders' and/or a Special Operations group for Sauron. The example would be the Lord of the Nazgul was given the task of destroying what was left of Arnor by bringing strength to the Hillmen of the Ettenmoors in their struggle against Arthedain and Cardolan. And of course there was the major reconniassance mission to find the ringbearer 'Baggins' in 'The Shire' which they all were dispatched as a unit, and went different ways to try and find Frodo.



> Allies
> Mordor also has significant human allies: Haradrim, Easterlings, Corsairs of Umbar and Variags of Khand. All these are corrupt Men, and are not part of the army of Mordor itself. Rather, they form attached auxilliary forces, fighting under their own commanders and their own manner of combat.



Yes, that is how I see the various tribes of men that joined forces with Sauron probably after some sly negotiation and promise of the fertile lands of the northwest of Middle Earth. I also think they would have been the source of the wars mentioned toward the end of the Pelennor Fields chapter of Eomer and Aragorn riding off together to fight. Clans of Easterlings and Haradrim and Khand likely establishing a sort of 'warlord' feifdoms in their lands and causing Gondor decades of grief long after the War of the Ring.


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## Alcuin (Jan 11, 2020)

That’s an excellent article, Aldarion


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## Aldarion (Jan 12, 2020)

Halasían said:


> Interesting speculation based on what little information Tolkien gives us. I have always seen the Mouth of Sauron more of Sauron's 'Chief of Staff' and/or the Minister of Domestic Affairs keeping the war machine production and supply going (think Alber Speer) whereas the Nazgul, under the leadership of the Lord of the Nazgul (Witch King) when they weren't operating on their own or in pairs or smaller groups, to be more 'field commanders' and/or a Special Operations group for Sauron. The example would be the Lord of the Nazgul was given the task of destroying what was left of Arnor by bringing strength to the Hillmen of the Ettenmoors in their struggle against Arthedain and Cardolan. And of course there was the major reconniassance mission to find the ringbearer 'Baggins' in 'The Shire' which they all were dispatched as a unit, and went different ways to try and find Frodo.



Yes, that is a definite possibility.



> Yes, that is how I see the various tribes of men that joined forces with Sauron probably after some sly negotiation and promise of the fertile lands of the northwest of Middle Earth. I also think they would have been the source of the wars mentioned toward the end of the Pelennor Fields chapter of Eomer and Aragorn riding off together to fight. Clans of Easterlings and Haradrim and Khand likely establishing a sort of 'warlord' feifdoms in their lands and causing Gondor decades of grief long after the War of the Ring.



Agreed. Many would have remained enthralled by Sauron even long after his death, but there would also have been more material concerns making their way as source of warfare once Sauron disappeared, as well.


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## 1stvermont (Jan 12, 2020)

Aldarion said:


> Another one I wrote. Link:
> 
> 
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That was a great read thanks.


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## Sir Eowyn (Apr 15, 2020)

And then, of course, there's Shelob for an independent guard at the tunnel. He throws her a snack every now and again, when he has a few soldiers to punish.


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## Aldarion (Apr 15, 2020)

Sir Eowyn said:


> And then, of course, there's Shelob for an independent guard at the tunnel. He throws her a snack every now and again, when he has a few soldiers to punish.



Agreed, although she seems to be more of an affiliated independent party.


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## Sir Eowyn (Apr 15, 2020)

Oh yes, she's older than Sauron, and pays no allegiance. But he's found a way for her to be useful.


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## Olorgando (Apr 15, 2020)

Sir Eowyn said:


> Oh yes, she's older than Sauron, and pays no allegiance. But he's found a way for her to be useful.


Eh? Perhaps you mean Shelob's ancestress Ungoliant? That whole bit about somebody being older than Sauron, a Maia present at the Music of the Ainur, has some serious defects, anyway. And Sauron was in command of Angband when Melkor and Ungoliant arrived in Middle-earth, had been in command since Melkor's imprisonment three Valian Ages earlier. Those spiders of Taur-na-Fuin, the former Dorthonion, that made Beren's passage to Doriath so harrowing, stem from after Ungoliant's coming to Middle-earth from Aman, so Shelob can only stem from this time at the earliest. Or even later, as her lair was very far to the east and south of Beleriand.


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## Sir Eowyn (Apr 15, 2020)

Forgive me---I meant that she's been there longer than Sauron, near Mordor.


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## Olorgando (Apr 15, 2020)

Makes sense. When you look at quite a few earlier films that "Saruman" starred in, his places were always full of cobwebs (what Renfrew would have thought of Shelob is an entirely different matter). So perhaps Sauron had a liking for cobwebs, too? Going Monty Python, maybe Sauron asked Shelob for some help in the interior decorating of Barad-dûr ...


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## Sir Eowyn (Apr 15, 2020)

As a Gothic horror enthusiast, I always wished we saw more of Barad-dur... the inside. Both in the films and in Tolkien's actual narrative. I fully understand why he left it (and Sauron) unseen... it's so evocative by omission. But still...


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## Olorgando (Apr 16, 2020)

Sir Eowyn said:


> As a Gothic horror enthusiast, I always wished we saw more of Barad-dur... the inside. Both in the films and in Tolkien's actual narrative. I fully understand why he left it (and Sauron) unseen... it's so evocative by omission. But still...


JRRT's imagination did not work this way. While he, as he wrote (or maybe that was Tom Shippey) about the White Council, the good can imagine what it could be like to be evil - and Sauron's lack of imagination the other way around was his major, in the end fatal weakness - he certainly wasn't spending any time pondering the details of this evil. He could, from personal experience at the Battle of the Somme in 1916, graphically describe the utter horror of a battlefield that was basically a slaughterhouse, but that was abut it. He could describe Bag End in minute detail from personal experience, but Barad-dûr and all its predecessors had to remain "black boxes".
I must say I wonder where the visual effects people of those gothic horror films find *their* inspiration - but somehow, I really don't want to know, methinks.


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## Sir Eowyn (Apr 16, 2020)

Well, Tolkien did leave some things cloaked, but I really do feel his imagination was equally gifted for horror and beauty. That's one of his great gifts, his adaptability there. He could describe Lothlorien at a glowing pitch of poetry, and describe the darkness no less poetic. Shelob's Lair is one of the best written, most evocative and poetic interludes, however horrific, in all the book. And then we get the Mordor landscape, the Mouth of Sauron, the Witch-king's chilling threats to Eowyn...

I'd argue Tolkien did possess the Gothic horror element, just subordinated to overall vision. The Barrow-downs, the Mines of Moria... his talent for it is everywhere. I'd argue he held back from Sauron himself because he understood that less is more, that he may describe the steps to the cave but the cave itself must always be left to the terrified imagination of each individual reader.

And Barad-dur, from the way he describes it, was no Dark Lord whim. It had architectural thought put into it.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Aug 24, 2020)

Significant work.  One more important military unit for Mordor I want to notice is "commissars" or "fleeing soldiers executors". Yeah, such management is always the brand for armed forces without reliable morale nor discipline. JRRT seem mentioned nothing about execution to fleeing orcs, no matter by Evil men, Balrogs, Dragons, or even their own firepower.

In addition, Evil men might not be simply auxiliary forces due to their quality and military operation performance far better than the orcs. It's obvious no significant military operation success has been achieved by orcs, no matter it's Unnumbered Tears, War in 1944, and so forth. Thus, I wonder Evil Men such as Easterlings were really that obedient as simple puppets or they're much like Isengard with almost independent authority.


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