# Why Watch 'Rings of Power'?



## Goldilocks Gamgee (Oct 4, 2022)

You know, reading through the RoP threads, I made a list of the things people like about this show:
- CGI
- No, that's it, everyone hates it

So, like, why are you guys even continuing to watch it? My reason is that discussing with people online and in real life, making theories and criticizing, has been quite the highlight of the past few weeks.


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## Kiredor (Oct 5, 2022)

For me, it’s simply idle curiosity of how the show’s writers compare with the master of fantasy and philology. So far, they haven’t disappointed my initial assertion that their attempts would be dismal. I found Peter Jackson’s versions reasonably palatable, but Amazon, IMHO, have a long, long way to go.
Lenny Henry’s Brummie/Jamaican accent is particularly bothersome, and Harfoots being Hobbits would never leave any of their kin behind - ever!


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## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 5, 2022)

I'm a fan of fantasy in general. While this show isn't canon Tolkien, I'm enjoying it as a standalone fantasy series that's influenced by Tolkien (as so many series are). It's definitely not perfect and has some poor writing but it's not awful. But as I've said so many times, it's not hard to just not watch if you don't like it. It's as simple as closing out of Amazon Prime and/or not watching in the first place. 

It's not going to change what Tolkien wrote or did in his life. I know some people personally who never had read Tolkien before. Now that they've watched the series, they're interested and have been discussing the original books and lore to understand better. A couple have even joined TTF and /r/TolkienFans on Reddit (another excellent site for Tolkien discussion). So I'd say that's a positive for the show too.


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## Halasían (Oct 6, 2022)

Goldilocks Gamgee said:


> You know, reading through the RoP threads, I made a list of the things people like about this show:
> - CGI
> - No, that's it, everyone hates it
> 
> So, like, why are you guys even continuing to watch it? My reason is that discussing with people online and in real life, making theories and criticizing, has been quite the highlight of the past few weeks.


From the extremely small sample size presented here on Tolkienforum, I get where you come to your conclusion. I’m a ‘nobody’ who doesn’t hate it, and am enjoying it for what it is and what it was always going to be… an elaborate fanfic. Not only will I ’continue’ to watch it, but will watch all five seasons. I’ve given up trying to ‘discuss’ Rings of Power here long ago.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 6, 2022)

I'd be more inclined to give it a chance if the show's creators hadn't been so awful. Driving away the Tolkien Scholar they'd brought on. Trashing any fans who criticize the show by conflating all criticism with the one or two racists out there.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 6, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> I'd be more inclined to give it a chance if the show's creators hadn't been so awful. Driving away the Tolkien Scholar they'd brought on. Trashing any fans who criticize the show by conflating all criticism with the one or two racists out there.


Is something...humourous @Halasían ?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 6, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> the one or two racists out there.


I'm guessing this. ^


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 6, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I'm guessing this. ^


Does...exaggeration escape his understanding?


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## Halasían (Oct 7, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Is something...humourous Halasían ?


Yes, or I wouldn't have laughed.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 7, 2022)

Halasían said:


> Yes, or I wouldn't have laughed.


That being....?


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## Kiredor (Oct 7, 2022)

Whether you love it or loathe it, RoP is simply a creation of work from another’s mind; albeit they jumped on Tolkien’s name to promote their ideas.
For me, it’s a simple choice, you either watch it with interest or don’t watch it at all.
I for one, am watching with interest just to see if it stands alone as a multi-series that depicts the story well.


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## Ent (Oct 7, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> it's not hard to just not watch if you don't like it.


Indeed. 
"The Universe will unfold as it should." {Spock. Star Trek VI, _The Undiscovered Country_



Kiredor said:


> it’s a simple choice, you either watch it with interest or don’t watch it at all.


Indeed. 
"The Universe will unfold as it should." {Spock. Star Trek VI, _The Undiscovered Country_



Halasían said:


> who doesn’t hate it, and am enjoying it for what it is and what it was always going to be


Indeed. 
"The Universe will unfold as it should." {Spock. Star Trek VI, _The Undiscovered Country

_


Erestor Arcamen said:


> It's not going to change what Tolkien wrote or did in his life.


Indeed. 
"The Universe will unfold as it should." {Spock. Star Trek VI, _The Undiscovered Country_


Hum. There might be a theme here.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 7, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> Whether you love it or loathe it, RoP is simply a creation of work from another’s mind; albeit they jumped on Tolkien’s name to promote their ideas.
> For me, it’s a simple choice, you either watch it with interest or don’t watch it at all.


I don't watch it. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to commentate on it. Being apathetic means allowing quality to drop and is how you get bad products and bad policy.


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## Ent (Oct 7, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> I don't watch it. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to commentate on it.



Indeed. "The Universe will unfold as it should." {Spock. Star Trek VI, _The Undiscovered Country)_



ZehnWaters said:


> Being apathetic means allowing quality to drop and is how you get bad products and bad policy.



And we should be willing to make our views known in all the proper and effective channels available to us to do so..! 

Following which, "The Universe will unfold as it should." {Spock. Star Trek VI, _The Undiscovered Country).

Apathy is never the answer............._The Aging Enting


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 7, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> I don't watch it. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to commentate on it.


You're not alone there. 😄


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 7, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> You're not alone there. 😄
> View attachment 16286


lol Goes both ways. You should see the "reviews" to the She-Ra reboot. "Go lesbians! 5 Stars."


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 7, 2022)

Or, you can check out a few of the many "Not My Ariel" uploads from youtube haters, for maximum toxicity.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 7, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Or, you can check out a few of the many "Not My Ariel" uploads from youtube haters, for maximum toxicity.


Oh, the She-Ra reboot stans are just as toxic. I've seen them harass a teenage for drawing a character in her original appearance.

To be fair, I've seen many black people complain about Ariel as well. Nobody likes hand-me-downs (especially when it comes in exchange for ignoring authentic African mythology and fairy-tales).


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## Elthir (Oct 7, 2022)

Well, I like to watch _something_ while I'm eating sea-pizza. Although I suppose, instead of ROP, I could watch _My Cousin Vinny_ *yet again*, or _Kill Bill_, or _Hero_, for a few examples.

This scene alone is worth it.


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## d4rk3lf (Oct 7, 2022)

Elthir said:


> Well, I like to watch _something_ while I'm eating sea-pizza. Although I suppose, instead of ROP, I could watch _My Cousin Vinny_ *yet again*, or _Kill Bill_, or _Hero_, for a few examples.


You could watch an empty wall, and having a better fun. 

To answer the OP questions, I am watching it for 2 reasons: 
1) As a Tolkien fan, I love to see everything that is done and have to do with his works (games, music, movies, series...) 
2) I am very curios how low they can go. 

The second reason came recently (after I saw first 2-3 episodes), because I am thinking all the time, and really can't recall any series (Tolkien related or not) that have this bad writing, this bad characters, this unconnected dialogues, and events that just happens (no action=reaction (they just happen)). 
Though, many series failed to impress after 2-3 seasons (Falling Skies, Walking Death, Got, etc.. ) they all had at least descent start, and failed later. I've never seen in my life series like this, that failed in every fundamental in storytelling, right from the start, and they just keep going. 
I am amazed how Amazon didn't had any quality control over it, and how their producer just let it aired like this.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 7, 2022)

d4rk3lf said:


> You could watch an empty wall, and having a better fun.
> 
> To answer the OP questions, I am watching it for 2 reasons:
> 1) As a Tolkien fan, I love to see everything that is done and have to do with his works (games, music, movies, series...)
> ...


My understanding is the developers basically got the job by calling in a favour from JJ Abrams with whom they worked on Star Trek Beyond. They have almost NO credits to their name.


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## Kiredor (Oct 7, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> I don't watch it. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to commentate on it. Being apathetic means allowing quality to drop and is how you get bad products and bad policy.


Fair enough.

I get it. RoP is based on LOTR, etc. However, when it is assumed they kill off a character who is not dead, (Celeborn) it begs the question of how much artistic license should be acceptable. Granted, Celeborn was a non-essential character, but there are references he is still alive, at least in the year 171 of the 4rd Age (sailing in the last ship with Cirdan the shipwright).

However, in RoP, Galadriel states that after Celeborn went to war, she never saw him again (Foreshadowing something?). That might suggest he's not dead; only that she thinks he died. Maybe he will turn up later.


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## Halasían (Oct 9, 2022)

Back to the thread topic of 'Why Watch Rings of Power', my wife and I have been enjoying watching through the episodes again from the beginning and talking about all the negative 'commentary' that has been made about the show in various places on the internet on the various scenes. Makes for some good entertainment. 😉


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 9, 2022)

Halasían said:


> Back to the thread topic of 'Why Watch Rings of Power', my wife and I have been enjoying watching through the episodes again from the beginning and talking about all the negative 'commentary' that has been made about the show in various places on the internet on the various scenes. Makes for some good entertainment. 😉


_I would say this: do not be influenced by the negative comments.

Enough said._


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## Halasían (Oct 9, 2022)

Nienna Qalme-Tári said:


> _Oh my, where lies the importance of mercy and compassion these days? Is there none left? It cannot be!_


Yes, I wonder the same, and weep at what has become of this once fair land.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 9, 2022)

Halasían said:


> Yes, I wonder the same, and weep at what has become of this once fair land.


_Seven Ages ago...it hath been too long, nay?_


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## Halasían (Oct 9, 2022)

Nienna Qalme-Tári said:


> _Seven Ages ago...it hath been too long, nay?_


Aye, it has been too long, even if it has been what seems only a fortnight ago. It makes me think of going back to the Twilight Hills and fish the western shores of Lake Evendim and leave the world to its whims.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 9, 2022)

Halasían said:


> Aye, it has been too long, even if it has been what seems only a fortnight ago. It makes me think of going back to the Twilight Hills and fish the western shores of Lake Evendim and leave the world to its whims.


_Indeed 'tis so, for we both have grown weary of the world, and of the diminishing of its vast ways..._


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## CheriptheRipper (Oct 9, 2022)

I'm a slave to capitalism and just want to consume media.


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## Ent (Oct 9, 2022)

CheriptheRipper said:


> I'm a slave to capitalism and just want to consume media.



LOL.


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## Eljorahir (Oct 9, 2022)

CheriptheRipper said:


> I'm a slave to capitalism and just want to consume media.


An addendum by Maxwell Smart: _*"...and loving it!"*_


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 10, 2022)




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## Shadow (Oct 10, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I'm a fan of fantasy in general. While this show isn't canon Tolkien, I'm enjoying it as a standalone fantasy series that's influenced by Tolkien (as so many series are). It's definitely not perfect and has some poor writing but it's not awful. But as I've said so many times, it's not hard to just not watch if you don't like it. It's as simple as closing out of Amazon Prime and/or not watching in the first place.
> 
> It's not going to change what Tolkien wrote or did in his life. I know some people personally who never had read Tolkien before. Now that they've watched the series, they're interested and have been discussing the original books and lore to understand better. A couple have even joined TTF and /r/TolkienFans on Reddit (another excellent site for Tolkien discussion). So I'd say that's a positive for the show too.



I have apprehensions about the show but I’m going to check it out now with this attitude.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 10, 2022)

Shadow said:


> I have apprehensions about the show


As do most...


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 10, 2022)

Nienna Qalme-Tári said:


> As do most...


I actually started out excited...until Tom Shippey left. Then concerns started to grow.


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## Kiredor (Oct 10, 2022)

Halasían said:


> Back to the thread topic of 'Why Watch Rings of Power', my wife and I have been enjoying watching through the episodes again from the beginning and talking about all the negative 'commentary' that has been made about the show in various places on the internet on the various scenes. Makes for some good entertainment. 😉





ZehnWaters said:


> I actually started out excited...until Tom Shippey left. Then concerns started to grow.


The fact that they contacted Peter Jackson to get involved at the beginning showed they weren’t confident of what they were doing. Then, after PJ agreed and asked for the script, they ghosted him. Did Shippey leave or was he pushed?


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## d4rk3lf (Oct 10, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> Then, after PJ agreed and asked for the script, they ghosted him


To their defense, I don't believe they had any script that they could send him. 
Looks like they just started recording random scenes without any script. 

Well.. makes sense now... actually


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 10, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> Did Shippey leave or was he pushed?


I don't know and I didn't want to speculate. He IS old and retired now.


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## Kiredor (Oct 10, 2022)

d4rk3lf said:


> To their defense, I don't believe they had any script that they could send him.
> Looks like they just started recording random scenes without any script.
> 
> Well.. makes sense now... actually


Probably, that has a hint of truth in it.


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## Ealdwyn (Oct 10, 2022)

I watched two episodes. Then I was away for 2 weeks without access to streaming and when I got back.... I literally did not care enough to watch the episodes I'd missed.

I'm sticking with Tolkien instead.


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## Kiredor (Oct 11, 2022)

Ealdwyn said:


> I watched two episodes. Then I was away for 2 weeks without access to streaming and when I got back.... I literally did not care enough to watch the episodes I'd missed.
> 
> I'm sticking with Tolkien instead.


I get that, and I don’t blame you. I’m still watching them with an intense morbid curiosity to see how the 8th episode (season finale after only 8 episodes???) pans out. If the weird old man from the meteorite turns out to be Gandalf, that will be the final nail in the RoP coffin for me. Tom Shippey told them ages ago they were ruining the lore of Tolkien, and for that they (allegedly) sacked him. It’s the Gandalf thing for me. The Valar did not send the Maiar by airmail (non-hot) rocks!


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## The Void (Oct 11, 2022)

Rings of Power. 

A dark distraction to those awaken at the shores of Cuivienen and are led into shadow by Melkor the Media. While those who who stick to the books, follow the path into the west to Valinor.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 11, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> I get that, and I don’t blame you. I’m still watching them with an intense morbid curiosity to see how the 8th episode (season finale after only 8 episodes???) pans out. If the weird old man from the meteorite turns out to be Gandalf, that will be the final nail in the RoP coffin for me. Tom Shippey told them ages ago they were ruining the lore of Tolkien, and for that they (allegedly) sacked him. It’s the Gandalf thing for me. The Valar did not send the Maiar by airmail (non-hot) rocks!


lol My morbid curiosity is actually starting to increase now that I've internalized that it's just an AU fanfic. It's still...dumb (even by AU standards) but I'm finding it easier to laugh.


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## Kiredor (Oct 11, 2022)

As I mentioned in a previous post, I see Amazon’s (laughable) version being aimed at the younger demographic (more gullible) audiences. Now, if that means we have to have large, black female Scottish dwarves, gay elves, rubbish wardrobes, non-established actors, and Eru-awful (see what I did there? 😉) writing, then so be it. If this inspires the younger generation to actually read Tolkien’s work and admire the original world of Arda, then than can only be a good thing.
btw, I’m Scottish and to my unelfish-like ears her accent is passable. Don’t know why she’s not cooking Haggis for Elrond though; I’m sure he’d love it.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 11, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> Don’t know why she’s not cooking Haggis for Elrond though; I’m sure he’d love it.


Because she's Scottish. GET IT?! lol Stereotyping is okay some of the time it would seem.


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## Olorgando (Oct 11, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> Don’t know why she’s not cooking Haggis for Elrond though; I’m sure he’d love it.


From the little bit of reading I've done *about* Haggis, I'd guess it's a descendant of Éowyn's stew from the films ... or possibly the other way around.

PJ & Co. at least didn't try for that fermented Greenland shark "delicacy" of Iceland. Seems to take close to a year of non-intuitive "preparation" just to become non-toxic ...


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## Kiredor (Oct 11, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> From the little bit of reading I've done *about* Haggis, I'd guess it's a descendant of Éowyn's stew from the films ... or possibly the other way around.
> 
> PJ & Co. at least didn't try for that fermented Greenland shark "delicacy" of Iceland. Seems to take close to a year of non-intuitive "preparation" just to become non-toxic ...


Haggis is a marmite thing. you either love or hate it.



ZehnWaters said:


> Because she's Scottish. GET IT?! lol Stereotyping is okay some of the time it would seem.


Good one!


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## Ealdwyn (Oct 11, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> From the little bit of reading I've done *about* Haggis, I'd guess it's a descendant of Éowyn's stew from the films ... or possibly the other way around.


Haggis is delicious! 😋


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## Radaghast (Oct 11, 2022)

I just can't even with this series. Are they only now, IN THE *SEVENTH EPISODE*, mentioning Celeborn? I'm only following through recaps and video reviews so feel free to correct me, anyone. But if so that is _monumentally_ horrendous writing. And that is before you even consider that it goes against the source by saying he's dead (though that could change, I suppose). You can't set up the protagonist's motivation as being revenge for her brother and then say, oh, by the way, she has/d a husband too. *WHAT?!*

And that is only scratching the surface. Absolutely horrible.


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## CheriptheRipper (Oct 12, 2022)

Radaghast said:


> I just can't even with this series. Are they only now, IN THE *SEVENTH EPISODE*, mentioning Celeborn? I'm only following through recaps and video reviews so feel free to correct me, anyone. But if so that is _monumentally_ horrendous writing. And that is before you even consider that it goes against the source by saying he's dead (though that could change, I suppose). You can't set up the protagonist's motivation as being revenge for her brother and then say, oh, by the way, she has/d a husband too. *WHAT?!*
> 
> And that is only scratching the surface. Absolutely horrible.


As for your question, yes this is the first time he's been mentioned.
Also her exact words were that she's not seen him ever again. So yeah probably not dead, just been missing for a while.


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## The Void (Oct 12, 2022)

I've eaten worse than Haggis or Black Pudding. Even Vegimite (Marmite).
I do agree that it is kinda aiming at the younger demographic.

Here's a little link for promoting ROP in a positive light against what John Rhys-Davies said about it.
Maybe ROP is made for 'hobbits'?
[Edit} Link had adverts in it, so I deleted it. Sorry.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 12, 2022)

CheriptheRipper said:


> As for your question, yes this is the first time he's been mentioned.
> Also her exact words were that she's not seen him ever again. So yeah probably not dead, just been missing for a while.


I wanna know who's taking care of Celebrían.



The Void said:


> Here's a little link for promoting ROP in a positive light against what John Rhys-Davies said about it.


What'd JRD have to say about it?


The Void said:


> Maybe ROP is made for 'hobbits'?


It certainly doesn't paint them in the best light.


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## Radaghast (Oct 12, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> What'd JRD have to say about it?
> 
> It certainly doesn't paint them in the best light.


Agreed. They are horrid, just like everything else about RoP.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 12, 2022)

Radaghast said:


> Agreed. They are horrid, just like everything else about RoP.


Everyone is pretty atrocious in that show. Galadriel is manipulative and vindictive. Elrond is serial liar. The Harfoots are sociopaths. The Númenóreans are inexplicably weak and unskilled warriors. Arondir is an oppressor "for their own good". Dísa and Durin seem to be the only two decent people.


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## Kiredor (Oct 12, 2022)

Maybe it's just me and my connection to JRR, being British and all that chaps, (oops, and chapesses -_sl)_, but the 'American' writers having not read the books or understanding the lore of Tolkien, and having a different education in using the 'English' language (No! American-English is not English) are on a hiding to nothing.
They have no comprehension of philology (the study of language in oral and written historical sources. Also, covers the intersection of textual criticism, literary criticism, history, and linguistics.) That's why the writing, and what oral nonsense the actors are saying, doesn't ring true to what most Tolkien fans relate to.
I already knew this would happen before RoP began, and in that, ignored the indifference to their not-so-subtle nuances. I understand why many of my fellow Tolkien admirers shudder at the sound of inaccurate utterances and obvious (or are they?) mistakes. 
It doesn't help that they (of which they are 'So proud!) set out to remove some of the 'straight, white, patriarchal' elements and introduce the social demographics of today. Personally, I don't mind the additional aspects of social inclusion, but to bastardize (Yes, that's how you spell it - 'To lower in quality or character; debase.') the core elements of Tolkien's work is reprehensible beyond measure.
Hey ho, last episode this Friday...


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## Ealdwyn (Oct 12, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> Maybe it's just me and my connection to JRR, being British and all that chaps, (oops, and chapesses -_sl)_, but the 'American' writers having not read the books or understanding the lore of Tolkien, and having a different education in using the 'English' language (No! American-English is not English) are on a hiding to nothing.
> They have no comprehension of philology (the study of language in oral and written historical sources. Also, covers the intersection of textual criticism, literary criticism, history, and linguistics.) That's why the writing, and what oral nonsense the actors are saying, doesn't ring true to what most Tolkien fans relate to.
> I already knew this would happen before RoP began, and in that, ignored the indifference to their not-so-subtle nuances. I understand why many of my fellow Tolkien admirers shudder at the sound of inaccurate utterances and obvious (or are they?) mistakes.
> It doesn't help that they (of which they are 'So proud!) set out to remove some of the 'straight, white, patriarchal' elements and introduce the social demographics of today. Personally, I don't mind the additional aspects of social inclusion, but to bastardize (Yes, that's how you spell it - 'To lower in quality or character; debase.') the core elements of Tolkien's work is reprehensible beyond measure.
> Hey ho, last episode this Friday...


I don't think it's that the writers are American - there are plenty of Americans with a deep understanding of the lore. The writers quite simply haven't bothered to try to understand it. They've just taken a bunch of fantasy tropes and thrown them together, without caring if it's true to canon or not.

I imagine it went something like this....


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 12, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> Maybe it's just me and my connection to JRR, being British and all that chaps, (oops, and chapesses -_sl)_, but the 'American' writers having not read the books or understanding the lore of Tolkien, and having a different education in using the 'English' language (No! American-English is not English) are on a hiding to nothing.
> They have no comprehension of philology (the study of language in oral and written historical sources. Also, covers the intersection of textual criticism, literary criticism, history, and linguistics.) That's why the writing, and what oral nonsense the actors are saying, doesn't ring true to what most Tolkien fans relate to.
> I already knew this would happen before RoP began, and in that, ignored the indifference to their not-so-subtle nuances. I understand why many of my fellow Tolkien admirers shudder at the sound of inaccurate utterances and obvious (or are they?) mistakes.
> It doesn't help that they (of which they are 'So proud!) set out to remove some of the 'straight, white, patriarchal' elements and introduce the social demographics of today. Personally, I don't mind the additional aspects of social inclusion, but to bastardize (Yes, that's how you spell it - 'To lower in quality or character; debase.') the core elements of Tolkien's work is reprehensible beyond measure.
> Hey ho, last episode this Friday...


I would have gladly welcomed increased representation. I always imagined the Númenóreans as dark (see below; click to enlarge). Since the Númenóreans were mariners who explored the whole world I also expected to see other lands, and there engage in a variety of demographics. But to have every culture have demographics that just happen to mimic those of the USA, in an era before mass travel is...inexplicable.



Ealdwyn said:


> I don't think it's that the writers are American - there are plenty of Americans with a deep understanding of the lore. The writers quite simply haven't bothered to try to understand it. They've just taken a bunch of fantasy tropes and thrown them together, without caring if it's true to canon or not.
> 
> I imagine it went something like this....
> 
> View attachment 16424


True of almost every reboot in the last 7 years, unfortunately.


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## Radaghast (Oct 12, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Everyone is pretty atrocious in that show. Galadriel is manipulative and vindictive. Elrond is serial liar. The Harfoots are sociopaths. The Númenóreans are inexplicably weak and unskilled warriors. Arondir is an oppressor "for their own good". Dísa and Durin seem to be the only two decent people.


As or the latest episode, even that last has been questioned.


Ealdwyn said:


> I don't think it's that the writers are American - there are plenty of Americans with a deep understanding of the lore. The writers quite simply haven't bothered to try to understand it. They've just taken a bunch of fantasy tropes and thrown them together, without caring if it's true to canon or not.
> 
> I imagine it went something like this....
> 
> View attachment 16424


I don't know whether to put a laughing or sad emoji on this post 🤔


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## Kiredor (Oct 12, 2022)

Ealdwyn said:


> I don't think it's that the writers are American - there are plenty of Americans with a deep understanding of the lore. The writers quite simply haven't bothered to try to understand it. They've just taken a bunch of fantasy tropes and thrown them together, without caring if it's true to canon or not.
> 
> I imagine it went something like this....
> 
> View attachment 16424


Sorry, I didn't mean to say that Americans who read Tolkien don't understand the Lore. I have spoken with many Americans who get into deeper meaning of the world of Arda more than most. It was Amazon's writers I was taking aim at. They have admitted as much at not reading the books in-depth (A must for Tolkien works). They use limited speech for the actors to convey their 'trope' lines. Have we heard over two sentences strung together by any of the cast without a pause? No. In most dialogue cases they utter their one or two lines, then the camera view changes before the next line, so it's obvious they have only spoken two sentences. And the simplistic English used sometimes doesn't even make sense, or even appear as genuine conversations.

Kudos on the cartoon mate. LMAO at that one.


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## CheriptheRipper (Oct 12, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> I wanna know who's taking care of Celebrían.


I know nothing about her but the way they're going about some things in the show I suppose they're just gonna use her as a mystery and cliffhanger somewhere. Also, can't she take care of herself?
Maybe she's not yet around. Or she went to war as well and missing as a result. Well I could keep guessing all day, I figure we'll see in a year or so.


ZehnWaters said:


> Everyone is pretty atrocious in that show. Galadriel is manipulative and vindictive. Elrond is serial liar. The Harfoots are sociopaths. The Númenóreans are inexplicably weak and unskilled warriors. Arondir is an oppressor "for their own good". Dísa and Durin seem to be the only two decent people.


I wanted to say Durin as well, love him. Disa had a crazy glow in her eyes last episode so she's obviously Sauron /s.
No clue what Al Pharazon should be like but I like him so far as well.


Spoiler



I like Elendil as well but this fake out Isil death really changed his whole stance on elves real quick. Don't dig this new one as much.


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## Radaghast (Oct 12, 2022)

"Oh, by the way, I have a daughter with Celeborn. But she's okay. She's staying with Grandmama."


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 12, 2022)

Radaghast said:


> As or the latest episode, even that last has been questioned.


True.



Radaghast said:


> "Oh, by the way, I have a daughter with Celeborn. But she's okay. She's staying with Grandmama."


Well, it's not like they follow canon anyway. Not that canon about Galadriel and Celeborn is easy.



CheriptheRipper said:


> I know nothing about her but the way they're going about some things in the show I suppose they're just gonna use her as a mystery and cliffhanger somewhere. Also, can't she take care of herself?
> Maybe she's not yet around. Or she went to war as well and missing as a result. Well I could keep guessing all day, I figure we'll see in a year or so.


...I suppose she would be an adult at this point. I'll give you that one.


CheriptheRipper said:


> I wanted to say Durin as well, love him. Disa had a crazy glow in her eyes last episode so she's obviously Sauron /s.


WHY NOT?!


CheriptheRipper said:


> No clue what Al Pharazon should be like but I like him so far as well.


Evil. Arrogant. Charismatic. Handsome. A YEAR YOUNGER THAN MÍRIEL.


CheriptheRipper said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I like Elendil as well but this fake out Isil death really changed his whole stance on elves real quick. Don't dig this new one as much.


Yeah....


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## CheriptheRipper (Oct 12, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Evil. Arrogant. Charismatic. Handsome. A YEAR YOUNGER THAN MÍRIEL.


Black don't crack 😎
Oh apparently my guy's only 41yo, miriel's actress is 37. Damn they did my guy dirty.


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## d4rk3lf (Oct 13, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Galadriel is manipulative and vindictive.


You need brain to be manipulative. 
Galadriel in the show looks pretty dumb to me.


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## Elthir (Oct 13, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Well, it's not like they follow canon anyway. Not that canon about Galadriel and Celeborn is easy.



Canon for these two isn't "too" confusing in my opinion. But posthumously published uncanon makes a mist for many here!

And yes *I'm sorry*. This post of mine was an un-called for, subjeggdiv, peggdantic 🥚splanation.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 13, 2022)

Elthir said:


> Canon for these two isn't "too" confusing in my opinion. But posthumously published uncanon makes a mist for many here!
> 
> And yes *I'm sorry*. This post of mine was an un-called for, subjeggdiv, peggdantic 🥚splanation.


lol, OKAY fine. Tolkien's constant revisions can be confusing but they weren't talked about IN TEXT for LotR.



d4rk3lf said:


> You need brain to be manipulative.
> Galadriel in the show looks pretty dumb to me.


Hollywood does that to EVERYONE. Even PJ did it to everyone countermanding Théoden about Helm's Deep. Like, why WOULDN'T you go to a defensive position when heavily outnumbered.


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## Elthir (Oct 13, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> lol, OKAY fine. Tolkien's constant revisions can be confusing but they weren't talked about IN TEXT for LotR.



Nor in RGE🥚.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 13, 2022)

Elthir said:


> Nor in RGE🥚.


RGE?


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## Radaghast (Oct 13, 2022)

Wow, so, finishing the recap for E7, Disa and DIV basically go from "let's save the elves!" to "Screw the elves! _And_ DIII! The mithril is ours! The WORLD is ours!!!" 

😐


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## Elthir (Oct 13, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> RGE?



*The Road Goes Ever 🥚n*, published by JRRT in 1967 -- in which Galadriel is banned from returning Over Sea due to her role, among others, as a leader of the Exiles over the GI [Grinding Ice], which seems to agree nicely with Namarie at least [which makes sense, JRRT commenting on this lament in RGEO]. . .

. . . and in which (RGEO again) Celeborn is (once again in an author-published text) stated to be Sindarin -- thus not a Telerin Elf from Aman [from posthumously published mist].


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## Radaghast (Oct 13, 2022)

Hey, you know one thing _Rings of Power_ is really missing? Rings.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 13, 2022)

Radaghast said:


> Hey, you know one thing _Rings of Power_ is really missing? Rings.


I think that's going to happen halfway through the series. They're setting it up with Celebrimbor and Elrond. But...yeah...


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## The Void (Oct 14, 2022)

ROP is like a Onion Ring chip packet. 
1% actual onion in it as an ingredient to give it its Label "Onion Rings"
The rest is made up of synthetic ingredients to show how technologically superior the product is 
...and a lot of hot air in the packet.


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## Radaghast (Oct 14, 2022)

I liken _Rings of Power_ to some hideous brood parasite, setting itself on a nest and laying its own odious clutch of eggs.


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## Faramir of Gondor (Oct 14, 2022)

Kiredor said:


> I get that, and I don’t blame you. I’m still watching them with an intense morbid curiosity to see how the 8th episode (season finale after only 8 episodes???) pans out. If the weird old man from the meteorite turns out to be Gandalf, that will be the final nail in the RoP coffin for me. Tom Shippey told them ages ago they were ruining the lore of Tolkien, and for that they (allegedly) sacked him. It’s the Gandalf thing for me. The Valar did not send the Maiar by airmail (non-hot) rocks!


They should have made Silmarillion aka the war with Morgoth instead of what they did make.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 14, 2022)

They don't have the rights to it.


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## Elthir (Oct 14, 2022)

Radaghast said:


> eggs.



I agree.



Radaghast said:


> Hey, you know one thing _Rings of Power_ is really missing? Rings.



"Gil-galad's" got 'em.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 14, 2022)

Is that an egg over his shoulder?


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## Radaghast (Oct 14, 2022)

Faramir of Gondor said:


> They should have made Silmarillion aka the war with Morgoth instead of what they did make.


They have the rights to _The Hobbit_ and LoR, including Appendices.


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## Elthir (Oct 14, 2022)

Great Oliphaunts! Maybe movie Gil-galad's got a golden goose.


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## Radaghast (Oct 14, 2022)

Elthir said:


> "Gil-galad's" got 'em.


😝 I should have specified "of power" 😆



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Is that an egg over his shoulder?


Pretty sure it's _between_ his shoulders 😝


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 29, 2022)

I am late to this topic, but I plan on continuing to watch RoP because I love beautiful imagery and music , and I have a pretty solid imagination. I can use RoP's multi-million dollar cinematography to inspire my own ideas and write a different story in my head the way I like it. I'm just not offended enough by the changes that I cannot take and make use of whatever good I can find in the "mess".


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

Haven't watched it, but I am appreciating the music and increase in Tolkien fans because of it. Seems to have resparked loads of old fanatics.


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 30, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> increase in Tolkien fans because of it. Seems to have resparked loads of old fanatics.


100% worth even "bad" adaptations. The birth of new Tolkien fans is a wonderful thing.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

That it is, as well as the reignited ones. Even if what sparked their interest again was obsessive criticism in lack of accuracy, it's not the means, but the ends!


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 30, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> That it is, as well as the reignited ones. Even if what sparked their interest again was obsessive criticism in lack of accuracy, it's not the means, but the ends!


I'm one of the "reignited". I was in seventh heaven throughout watching the premiere two episodes. (To the amusement of my husband; he sat down to watch it with me and lasted about 5 minutes. I love him for trying, but he's hopeless. Some people just can't convert.🤣)

However, my excitement gradually flatlined as the episodes went on, and currently I can barely get through episode 5. BUT. Boy, did the stuff I watch get the rusty gears in my head spinning again. 

I wish the same for all LOTR fans, new and old, whether they loved or hated RoP. Take all joy you can find folks (however miniscule), and run with that instead; ignore the swill if you can. It's just healthier.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

Glad to hear it. That's wonderful if you were able to get something out of it.


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