# the paths of the dead



## SpencerC18 (Apr 11, 2002)

*the pathes of the dead*

In the Return of the King, what exactly is the path of the dead?


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## Sam_Gamgee (Apr 11, 2002)

It is an acient undergeround path from the rider of rohan's hide out leading through the southern mountians i can't remeber which mountains and which place to which place (names) when i gte my book back i can tell you


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## SpencerC18 (Apr 12, 2002)

Does it have any mystical or magical or historical significance, though?


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## Elwing (Apr 12, 2002)

Wasn't it where the group of people that once deserted the Dundain in an earlier fight against Sauron (could be someone different) that are now ghost figures, have to stay until they repay there oath to help them fight in the war so that they can rest in peace and Aragorn can pass through because he is the righful king where as others can't go as the dead will not allow them to pass through. I think but this may not be totally accurate.


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## Lantarion (Apr 12, 2002)

The ghosts were the faithless Men who did not fulfill their oath to Isildur during theee..Battle of the Last Alliance? I can't remember which battle exactly. They were to remain hgosts, or trapped in 'limbo' until Isildur's Heir came along and gave them a chance to fulfill their oath and go to rest at last. The Stone of Erech, which was a huge black stone nearby the Path, was a´stone brought by Isildur from the Land of the Star (I think), and it was there (again, I think) that he laid his oath upon the Men of Erech.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Apr 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pontifex _
> *The ghosts were the faithless Men who did not fulfill their oath to Isildur during theee..Battle of the Last Alliance? I can't remember which battle exactly. They were to remain gosts, or trapped in 'limbo' until Isildur's Heir came along and gave them a chance to fulfill their oath and go to rest at last. The Stone of Erech, which was a huge black stone nearby the Path, was a´stone brought by Isildur from the Land of the Star (I think), and it was there (again, I think) that he laid his oath upon the Men of Erech. *




Thats right. The oath was put there by isildur. Not sure if it was last alliance though.


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## Halasían (Nov 11, 2003)

Being that Isildur died two years after the Last Alliance battle, it would be assumed to be the Last Alliance battle?


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## Lantarion (Nov 11, 2003)

It was indeed the Last Alliance. 
[SIZE=0.5]Gosh what an ancient thread![/SIZE]


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## Halasían (Nov 11, 2003)

Yes, an old one but always a good discussion!

I thought it was, but much of my knowledge of Tolkien is rusty.
Paths of the Dead always intrigued me though.


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## Freawine (Nov 13, 2003)

How far the Path of the Dead episode reflects the myth of the hero that does down to the world of the dead - or some sort of underworld - and returns, either stronger, with what he needs to achieve his goal or fully assumed in his heroic nature? 

Any thoughts?


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## Eledhwen (Dec 4, 2003)

Elrohir said to him: 'I bring word to you from my father: _The days are short. If thou art in haste, remember the Paths of the Dead._"

Later, Aragorn says to Theoden, "For me the time of stealth has passed. I will ride east by the swiftest way, and I will take the Paths of the Dead.'
"The Paths of the Dead!" said Theoden, "Why do you speak of them? ... their gate is in Dunharrow; but no living man may pass it."

"That road I will take, nonetheless," said Aragorn .... 

He later told his friends: "I have looked in the Stone of Orthanc. .... I am the lawful master of the Stone, and I had both the right and the strength to use it, or so I judged. ... I showed the blade re-forged to him. .... (Aragorn did this to force Sauron to act in haste, and so in folly)

"I have no help to send [to Gondor], therefore I must go myself, but there is only one way through the mountains that will bring me to the coastlands before all is lost. That is the Paths of the Dead. .....

"The living have never used that road since the coming of the Rohirrim,, for it is closed to them. But in this dark hour the heir of Isildur may use it, if he dare. Listen! This is the word that the sons of Elrond bring to me from their father in Rivendell, wisest in lore; _Bid Aragorn remember the words of he seer, and the Paths of the Dead._"

Then Aragorn quotes:

_Over the land there lies a long shadow,
westward reaching wings of darkness.
The Tower trembles; the tombs of kings
doom approaches. The Dead awaken;
for the hour is come for the oathbreakers:
at the Stone of Erech they shall stand again
and hear there a horn in the hills ringing.
Whose shall thehorn be? Who shall call them
from the grey twighlight, the forgotten people?
The heir of him whom the oath they swore.
From the North shall he come, need shall drive him:
he shall pass the Door to the Paths of the Dead._

Aragorn explains: "The oath that they broke was to fight against Sauron, and they must fight therefore, if they are to fulfil it. For at Erech there stands yet a black stone that was brought, it was said, from Numenor by Isildur; and it was set upon a hill, and upon it the King of the Mountains swore allegiance to him in the beginning of the realm of Gondor. But when Sauron returned and grew in might again, Isildur summoned the Men of the Mountains to fulfil their oath, and they would not: for they had worshipped Sauron in the Dark Years.

"Then Isuldur said to their king: 'Thou shalt be the last king. And if the West prove mightier than thy Black Master, this curse I lay upon thee and thy folk: to rest never until your oath is fulfilled. For this war will last through years uncounted, and you shall be summoned once again ere the end.' And they fled before the wrath of Isildur, and did not dare to go forth to war on Sauron's part; and they hid themselves in secret places in the mountains and had no dealings with other men, but slowly dwindled in the barren hills. And the terror of the Sleepless Dead lies abou the Hill of Erech and all places where that people lingered. But that way I must go, since there are none living to help me."


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## Erestor Arcamen (Aug 17, 2014)

I always found the Paths of the Dead very interesting. My main question was where did the locked door that Baldor was found at go to and then I found this thread in the archives http://www.thetolkienforum.com/archive/index.php/t-17073.html. Vardamir had this to say:



> Vardamir
> 02-06-2005, 03:21 AM
> Was it not Baldor son of Brego?
> Indeed, with that name in Google I found this:
> ...



I still find these little mysteries that Tolkien left for us very interesting. Does anyone know where this note is that Tolkien wrote this? Was it one of the letters?


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## Alcuin (Aug 18, 2014)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Does anyone know where this note is that Tolkien wrote this? Was it one of the letters?



You can find it in Hammond and Scull’s _Reader's Companion_ in the notes for page 787 of _LotR_. (In my hard copy, that’s page 534; _RC_ references pages of the one-volume _LotR_ as well as each of the separate volumes, and has its own page numbers, too.) The original was published “in a note to _The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor_”, which was an article in _Vinyar Tengwar_ 42, July 2001, p 22. 

_The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor_ was written by J.R.R. Tolkien. The published version was “edited by Carl F. Hostetter with additional commentary and materials provided by Christopher Tolkien”. Hostetter is a Tolkien linguist and the editor of _Vinyar Tengwar_. 

Because _Reader's Companion_ is far more accessible to most people than _Vinyar Tengwar_, I suspect citation is probably best known from that – oh, and from Tolkien boards like The Tolkien Forum that cite it.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Aug 18, 2014)

Alcuin said:


> You can find it in Hammond and Scull?s _Reader's Companion_ in the notes for page 787 of _LotR_. (In my hard copy, that?s page 534; _RC_ references pages of the one-volume _LotR_ as well as each of the separate volumes, and has its own page numbers, too.) The original was published ?in a note to _The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor_?, which was an article in _Vinyar Tengwar_ 42, July 2001, p 22.
> 
> _The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor_ was written by J.R.R. Tolkien. The published version was ?edited by Carl F. Hostetter with additional commentary and materials provided by Christopher Tolkien?. Hostetter is a Tolkien linguist and the editor of _Vinyar Tengwar_.
> 
> Because _Reader's Companion_ is far more accessible to most people than _Vinyar Tengwar_, I suspect citation is probably best known from that ? oh, and from Tolkien boards like The Tolkien Forum that cite it.



Thank you Alcuin! I have so many books to read yet of the Tolkien Universe that I haven't gotten into the _Reader's Companion _​yet.


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## host of eldar (Feb 9, 2015)

I still wonder why Theoden and his folk should shudder for the mere mention of the paths of the dead. Aragorn and his company go in without questioning, even Gimli gets in though horrified. I may but say one thing that people of Rohan is a bit frantic when it comes to elves, magic etc. I remember how Eomer's company reacted when they heard Aragorn's conversation with Eomer in the chapter 'riders of Rohan'.


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## King Naugladur (Apr 24, 2015)

The Rohirrim grew afraid of the Paths of the Dead perhaps because of Baldor's unfortunate expedition there.
However, not only the Rohirrim had grown estranged from Elves in the Third Age. After the breaking of the Last Alliance, there was little love between the two races. Thus, it was not uncommon that misconceptions and stereotypes were developed between them.
King Naugladur.


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