# Sarcasm in Lord of the Rings



## Snaga (Feb 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goroshimura_
> *I'm gald Mr Harad and Mr. Variag weren't at the Council of Elrond-- definitely would have ruined the occasion-- and the book!! (At any rate, sarcasm seems to conflict with the general tone of the work....)*


Here's a challenge for you all: can anyone come up with some cast-iron examples of sarcasm in Lord of the Rings?

I just know you're all gonna think this is SO important!


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## aragil (Feb 11, 2002)

Frodo: 'Oh, hullo Smeagol. Where have you been?'
Smeagol: 'Sssssneakin!'


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## Harad (Feb 11, 2002)

If I had my book here, I would get RIGHT on it. Heck, I might just go out and buy another copy since I consider this thread to be SO important.

But seriously folks, how about Denethor, Grima, or Saruman (Aruman?). They seem like prime candidates for the use of sarcasm. Hey! How about the Mouth of Sauron--tailor made.


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## Isildur's Bane (Feb 11, 2002)

Gandalf - "I prefered white."

simply oozes it


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## Faramir (Feb 11, 2002)

Samwise is pretty sarcastic as well. I love the time they are caught in the snow storm on the side of the mountain, and Strider says that they wouldn't be able to find a place that offers better shelter against the wind, and Sam says "If this is shelter, than one wall and no roof make a house."


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## Harad (Feb 11, 2002)

I beg to differ. That's not sarcasm. Thats irony. Ok...maybe its onomatopoeia.


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## Isildur's Bane (Feb 11, 2002)

on what planet is that irony? planet alanis morrisette? 

just out of interest, which continent are you from Harad?


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## aragil (Feb 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Isildur's Bane _
> *just out of interest, which continent are you from Harad? *



The scorched one. Just south of Gondor.


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## Isildur's Bane (Feb 11, 2002)

smart "bottom" (dont want to be told off for swearing)


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## Harad (Feb 11, 2002)

> Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me? - he asked. - Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least! - he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. - It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!



Any doubts?


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## Snaga (Feb 11, 2002)

Saruman to Gandalf:


> Later! Yes, when you have the Keys of Barad-dur itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards, and have purchased a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now. A modest plan. Hardly one in which my help is needed!


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## Harad (Feb 11, 2002)

Gandalf to Grima:

- You are held wise, my friend Wormtongue, and are doubtless a great support to your master, - answered Gandalf in a soft voice. -


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## Gary Gamgee (Feb 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Isildur's Bane _
> *on what planet is that irony? planet alanis morrisette? *



 LMAO hahaha sorry Harad but that was funny


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## Harad (Feb 11, 2002)

Gollum to the Good Guys:



> - We are lost, lost, - said Gollum. - No name, no business, no Precious, nothing. Only empty. Only hungry; yes, we are hungry. A few little fishes, nasty bony little fishes, for a poor creature, and they say death. So wise they are; so just, so very just.



Geez, you guys are pretty wise your own selves. Really caught me when I called that "irony." What was I thinking?


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## aragil (Feb 11, 2002)

I see that someone got their groove back (ie, found their books). Death Marching our way back to 400 posts, are we?


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## Harad (Feb 11, 2002)

I am going to find fault with my earlier post of the Mouth of Sauron. Is that "sarcasm" strictly speaking, or just "scorn"?


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## Isildur's Bane (Feb 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Harad _
> *Gandalf to Grima:
> 
> - You are held wise, my friend Wormtongue, and are doubtless a great support to your master, - answered Gandalf in a soft voice. - *



Harad, spot on sunshine. as we say at home , Gandalf is ripping the p*ss.


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## Aldanil (Feb 11, 2002)

*not sarcasm, perhaps*

...or at least not Sam's sarcasm, anyway, in the conversation I'm thinking of, between the Gaffer's loyal son and Ted Sandyman at the Green Dragon in Bywater in "The Shadow of the Past". He says that his cousin Hal has seen giant Tree-men walking across the North Downs, a report which Ted treats with dismissive derision, but Samwise stoutly insists that "our Halfast" should be believed in the matter. Halfast = Half-assed, get it? This is one of the very few hidden jokes in LOTR that I know the secret password to open, and what sarcasm there is in it belongs to Tolkien and not Master Gamgee, but it's the only contribution I can provide on short notice to embellish such a *very* important thread...


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## Snaga (Feb 12, 2002)

How about this from Grishnakh the Great to Ugluk the Inadequate?



> 'Well, here we are,' sneered Grishnakh. 'Fine leadership! I hope the great Ugluk will lead us out again.'


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## Harad (Feb 12, 2002)

oooh nasssty. Nothing like trampling your vanquished foe.



> Worm! Worm! - Saruman called; and out of a nearby hut came Wormtongue, crawling, almost like a dog. To the road again, Worm! - said Saruman. - *These fine fellows and lordlings* are turning us adrift again. Come along!


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## Isildur's Bane (Feb 12, 2002)

"Halfast = Half-assed, get it? This is one of the very few hidden jokes in LOTR that I know the secret password to open.."

i'm unsure if Tolkien would have used that. ive not got a copy with me so can see the context, but the pronunciation is all U.S., wheras Tolkien being oxford educated would be more likely to say arse (sorry if thats counted as a rude word btw


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## HLGStrider (Feb 12, 2002)

*Aragorn to Merry in the House of Healing about the Herb Master*

"Master Meriadoc, if you think I have passed through the mountains and the realmof Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herbmaster of this house, and he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called westmansweed by the vulgar, and galenas by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now, must I...."

That has always made me laugh very hard, especially since, as Pippen points out after Aragorn leaves, the pack Merry wanted was sitting by his bed side in Aragorn's veiw all along... Whether it is biting enough to be considered sarcasm, you must decide...


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## Harad (Feb 12, 2002)

> - How do we shape our course now, Sméagol? - asked Frodo. - Must we cross these evil-smelling fens?
> 
> - No need, no need at all, - said Gollum. - Not if hobbits want to reach the dark mountains and go to see Him very quick. Back a little, and round a little - - his skinny arm waved north and east - - and you can come on hard cold roads to the very gates of His country. Lots of His people will be there looking out for guests, very pleased to take them straight to Him, O yes.


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## Walter (Feb 15, 2002)

_"Knock on the doors with Your head, Peregrin Took"_  --- Gandalf to Pippin at Moria

_"Throw Yourself in next time..."_ --- ibid.


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## Harad (Feb 15, 2002)

These are great examples of sarcasm.

If I knew better I might call them direct insults. Sarcasm would be:

"We would all miss you if you disappeared down a well."

and

"Your head is too valuable to be used as a door knocker, considering the great thoughts that come out of it."


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## Snaga (Feb 15, 2002)

I think the first one passes muster as sarcasm, as clearly Gandalf is NOT really going to use Pippin's head as a door-knocker. The second is more in the category of outright abuse - he's telling Pip to F£$% off!

However Harad's adaptation are definitely MORE sarcastic.


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## Anduril (Feb 15, 2002)

I think that the best irony (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist to add my comment in this matter) is this...
A single being, not elf, not human, not dwarf...even not a magician was the final executor of the ring...a "secondary" character that grows along the book and crushes the real evil...

Yes, I'm talking about Sam...

I think THIS is the real irony and the real magic of "lord of the Rings"...

What do you think, fellows?

Regards.


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## Harad (Feb 15, 2002)

I'm sure that irony belongs in a sarcasm thread. Thank you for saving disk space, by not starting a separate irony thread.


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## Legolam (Feb 16, 2002)

For those of you not of a sensitive disposition (I'm not kidding, don't let your kids go here!), try copying and pasting HLGStrider's quote from ROTK into this site: http://toy.thespark.com/burn/

It's hilarious, if a little rude!


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## Hirila (Feb 16, 2002)

Bad boy, bad boy!

That`s great! Lol pimp! Great stuff!


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## Harad (Feb 16, 2002)

the "snaga1" site is SO much better than that!


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## Mcdecaff (May 13, 2021)

Guys I may be 19 years late to this thread but a clear cut bona fide example of sarcasm in LOTR is of course: 

"Hobbits always so polite, yes! O nice hobbits! Smeagol brings them up secret ways that nobody else could find. Tired he is, thirsty he is, yes thirsty; and he guides them and he searches for paths, and they saw sneak, sneak. Very nice friends, O yes my precious, very nice."

I don't think I need to include who it quoted here. I always found that line to be memorable for the humour and sarcasm.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 13, 2021)

Mcdecaff said:


> I may be 19 years late to this thread


That's all right -- we're not sticklers about necroposting here.



And welcome to the forum! 😊


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## m4r35n357 (May 14, 2021)

HLGStrider said:


> *Aragorn to Merry in the House of Healing about the Herb Master*
> 
> That has always made me laugh very hard, especially since, as Pippen points out after Aragorn leaves, the pack Merry wanted was sitting by his bed side in Aragorn's veiw all along... Whether it is biting enough to be considered sarcasm, you must decide...


Aragorn's lines here regarding the herb master are worthy of Monty Python's cheese shop sketch!

Also the double burn of Ioreth by Aragorn ("run as quick as your tongue") and Gandalf ("but not to her sisters") is really nicely done IMO.

This whole chapter really stands out as a comic interlude.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 14, 2021)

Indeed. And l'll add the exchanges between Aragorn and the Herb Master: pure Menippean satire.


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