# Arnor or Gondor



## 1stvermont (Feb 4, 2022)

My son asked me who was stronger militarily at their peak, Gondor or Arnor, and I could not give him an answer because I don't know. Did Tolkien give us the answer? or at least some hints?


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## Olorgando (Feb 4, 2022)

Since Arnor fell apart into three "petty kingdoms" in 861 Third Age upon the death of King Eärendur, Arnor's "peak" cannot have amounted to much.
Fonstad (from your son's other question) estimates Gondor to be twice as large as Arnor - the "core kingdom", not Gondor at the height of its power, which she estimates to be about three times as large. If we then assume that Gondor had something closer to a Mediterranean climate, while Arnor would have been closer to England and its neighbors across the North Sea and English Channel (but in both cases more of a continental climate), then we can assume Gondor's population density to have been greater. With Gondor reaching its peak of power almost 300 years after the division of Arnor, I'd thinks it's absolutely no contest that Gondor at its peak was far stronger than Arnor at its peak, whenever that may have been.


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## 1stvermont (Feb 4, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> Since Arnor fell apart into three "petty kingdoms" in 861 Third Age upon the death of King Eärendur, Arnor's "peak" cannot have amounted to much.
> Fonstad (from your son's other question" estimates Gondor to be twice as large as Arnor - the "core kingdom", not Gondor at the height of its power, which she estimates to be about three times as large. If we then assume that Gondor had something closer to a Mediterranean climate, while Arnor would have been closer to England and its neighbors across the North Sea and English Channel (but in both vases more of a continental climate), then we can assume Gondor's population density to have been greater. With Gondor reaching its peak of power almost 300 years after the division of Arnor, I'd thinks it's absolutely no contest that Gondor at its peak was far stronger than Arnor at its peak, whenever that may have been.



Great stuff, thanks. I will pass it along to my son. Please do vote, it will make him happy.


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## Olorgando (Feb 4, 2022)

1stvermont said:


> Great stuff, thanks. I will pass it along to my son. Please do vote, it will make him happy.


Voted. 
But you replied before I was able to correct - edit  - at least two typos ... 😬


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 5, 2022)

You can find a lot of speculation and discussion online. Random example:





I.C.E. Other Hands | Thoughts on the Population of Gondor and Arnor


I.C.E. Other Hands magazine




harp-tdm.info




And a response:





I.C.E. Other Hands | A Response to “Thoughts On the Population of Gondor and Arnor”


I.C.E. Other Hands magazine




www.harp-tdm.info


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## Rōmānus (Feb 22, 2022)

At their peaks and during their declines Gondor was always greater and the Southern Dúnedain looked upon those in the North as being weak. This was one of the reasons that the victorious captain Eärnil was chosen over Arvedui in the succession. At its peak none dared tried to mess around with King Ciryaher. When Arvedui needed aid Eärnil sent a small fighting force, albeit too late, that was seen in the North as a great army.


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## ArnorianRanger (Feb 23, 2022)

But the restoration of Arnor and the glory of North and South Kingdoms being reunified by King Elessar will forever be remembered by those who hold the memory of the Dúnedain in shaping the history of Middle-Earth as hallowed...

Thanks,

AR


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