# Colors of the wizards



## Ingwë (Oct 30, 2005)

From _'The Councel of Elrond'_:


> ` "Yes, I have come," I [Gandalf] said. "I have come for your aid, Saruman the White." And that title seemed to anger him.
> ' "Have you indeed, Gandalf the _Grey_! " he [Saruman] scoffed. "For aid? It has seldom been heard of that Gandalf the Grey sought for aid, one so cunning and so wise, wandering about the lands, and concerning himself in every business, whether it belongs to him or not."
> ...
> Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his scorn.
> ...



From _'The Voice of Saruman'_:


> Saruman!' he cried, and his voice grew in power and authority. 'Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.'


 
Radagast is known as Radagast _the Brown. _Gandalf is called _the Grey_, Saruman is _the White_. The other Wizards are Ithryn luin - _the Blue_ Wizards. What is the point of colors? It seems that they're important. How did the Istari chose their colors? Any ideas?

[I saw the new old announcement: the new old announcement, I searched and found... nothing]


----------



## Thorondor_ (Oct 30, 2005)

The blue wizards are so named after their "sea-blue" clothes, which could reffer to their origin from over the seas; the "earthen brown" of Radagast might be related to his love of animals, forest, etc; Saruman might have chosen white as to show off his high rank among the messengers of the gods. I think that Gandalf is called The Grey, that is, he chose to clad himself in grey clothes because of his simplicity; white would have been to obvious/eye catching, and any other color (black esspecialy) might not be in tune with his rather unconspicuous manner of acting. 


Unfinished Tales said:


> but his joy, and his swift wrath, were veiled in garments grey as ash, so that only those that knew him well glimpsed the flame that was within


and also, in refference his other name, Incanus and his gray hair :


> In this note my father referred to the Latin word incánus "grey-haired" in such a way as to suggest that this was the actual origin of this name of Gandalf's when The Lord of the Rings was written, which if true would be very surprising


----------



## Barliman Butterbur (Oct 30, 2005)

Here's something which might prove fun: If you could be a wizard, what color would you choose for yourself, and why? 

Barley


----------



## Hammersmith (Oct 30, 2005)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Here's something which might prove fun: If you could be a wizard, what color would you choose for yourself, and why?
> 
> Barley


Magenta

Magenta is "too short". I'll be violetey lillac with a hint of mauve.


----------



## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 30, 2005)

Well before I answer barly's question I'll post my reply to the topic. I agree with Thorondor_:


> The blue wizards are so named after their "sea-blue" clothes, which could reffer to their origin from over the seas; the "earthen brown" of Radagast might be related to his love of animals, forest, etc; Saruman might have chosen white as to show off his high rank among the messengers of the gods. I think that Gandalf is called The Grey, that is, he chose to clad himself in grey clothes because of his simplicity


 
but I think maybe Gandalf took grey because like in the Undying lands he didnt think he was good enough and all right? (its in Unfinished Tales maybe i think...) so maybe he chose grey because its kind of neutral and all, not too flashy because he like thought he wasnt that great or that powerful or anything so he took grey. it says on wikipedia:



> Gandalf is the best-known of the Maiar of the people of Valinor. He was known as *Olórin* who dwelt in the gardens of Irmo and was the pupil of Nienna. When the Valar decided to send the order of the Wizards to Middle-earth, Olórin was proposed by Manwë, in order to counsel and assist all those in Middle-earth who opposed Sauron. He is said to be one of the wisest of that order, rivalling Saruman, with whom he had a strained, competitive relationship.


 
I think it was Nienna that told Olorin to go with the others. I could be completely wrong about this, feel free to correct. Anyways maybe Gandalf chose the gray because he rivaled Saruman and gray is the closest color in the bunch to white. Gandalf and Saruman are the two main Istari in the entire thing. 

to answer Barley, I'd be a silver wizard!


----------



## Alcuin (Oct 30, 2005)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> > Gandalf .. is said to .. [have] had a strained, competitive relationship [with Saruman].


 It was a one-sided competition: Saruman was competing, but Gandalf was not. Saruman’s jealousy seems to have been a fatal flaw, a kind of “mortal sin” for a Maia.

There is a passage cited by Christopher Tolkien in “The Istari” essay in _Unfinished Tales_ concerning the selection of the Five Wizards. I hope it is not out of place to quote it at length.


> Of major interest, however, is a brief and very hasty sketch of a narrative, telling of a council of the Valar, summoned it seems by Manwë (“and maybe he called upon Eru for counsel?”), at which it was resolved to send out three emissaries to Middle-earth. “Who would go ? For they must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men. But this would imperil them, dimming their wisdom and knowledge, and confusing them with fears, cares, and weariness coming from the flesh.” But two only came forward: Curumo, who was chosen by Aulë, and Alatar, who was sent by Oromë. Then Manwë asked, where was Olórin ? And Olórin, who was clad in grey, and having just entered from a journey had seated himself at the edge of the council, asked what Manwë would have of him. Manwë replied that he wished Olórin to go as the third messenger to Middle-earth (and it is remarked in parentheses that “Olórin was a lover of the Eldar that remained,” apparently to explain Manwë’s choice). But Olórin declared that he was too weak for such a task, and that he feared Sauron. Then Manwë said that that was all the more reason why he should go, and that he commanded Olórin (illegible words follow that seems to contain word “third”). But at that Varda looked up and said: “Not as the third;” and Curumo remembered it.


So Gandalf was chosen by Manwë. He showed up late to the selection meeting. He did not want to go, and tried to beg off. He went because he was commanded to go, and because he “was a lover of the Eldar that remained” in Middle-earth.

And he showed up at the council “clad in grey.”


----------



## YayGollum (Oct 30, 2005)

The point of colors ---> The colors that they wore (because they were the first that they were seen in or because these were their favorites and most oftenly wore them) were any easily rememberable bit about them with which the random people who saw them all over that Middle Earth place could mark them in their brains as. 

I don't see how the colors are very important. Sure, the evil torturer Gandalf steals the Saruman dude's title, but that's because the guy never cared for it, voluntarily gave it up to choose something new and outside of the box, and it was tossed at him by whoever brought him back to bodily form. 

Is there something that said that the Istari types chose their own colors? Besides choosing to wear certain colors that they ended up being endlessly identified with.  

Anyways, my views on those quotes at the beginning, even though nobody asked ---> It just looks like the Saruman dude isn't a fan of people being identified by way of colors. He sees no use for it. It doesn't look like he considers colors to show rank or anything. He says something like (at least in my brain) ---> "Huh! Saruman the White! Saruman the White! Everybody keeps calling me that! Why must I always be lumped with some boring color that I happened to use in my first appearance? I am more than just the White! Can't I have a better title? See? Colors don't matter! Look at what I did to all of my clothes! I am thinking outside of the box, crazy gray person."

My color would be a mood ring type of thing. Or just my favorite color, dark green.


----------



## Narsil (Oct 30, 2005)

YayGollum said:


> It just looks like the Saruman dude isn't a fan of people being identified by way of colors. He sees no use for it. It doesn't look like he considers colors to show rank or anything. He says something like (at least in my brain) ---> "Huh! Saruman the White! Saruman the White! Everybody keeps calling me that! Why must I always be lumped with some boring color that I happened to use in my first appearance? I am more than just the White! Can't I have a better title? See? Colors don't matter! Look at what I did to all of my clothes! I am thinking outside of the box, crazy gray person."



 Well, that puts a unique spin on things. I tend to think of the colors as showing rank..Or at least Saruman seems to equate them with rank and status. He thinks very highly of himself. It's rather ironic that the most tainted of the Istari is clothed in white, as his soul ultimately is very black and evil. He is the opposite of "his" color. 

Grey denotes simplicity, humbleness, lack of hubris, all qualities of which can be attributed to Gandalf. Radagast is represented by his color as well in that he is a lover of the Earth, the woods and all animals and birds. What is more "earthy" than brown? Of the Blue Wizards I don't know except that they are the wanderers from across the sea, hence the Blue. Blue is also considered a very "pure" color. As brown represents earth, blue is of the sea. White is pure, as in pureness of air. 

Saruman feels he's attained the highest rank and power by being "many" colors. Of all the Istari, only Saruman ultimately makes a mockery of his color and in the end, is _color-less_ and souless. In the end, he's nothing. Rather ironic. 

I'd be red, as in fire. All the four elements are represented fire, and that would in all likelihood be red. Besides, I like red.


----------



## octoburn (Oct 30, 2005)

I think that the two Maia who "volunteered" to go to ME at the time are basically out of the story by the time LOTR takes place, and the one who had to be "sent" is one of the main characters tells alot in Tolkien's perception of character. that "the humble shall be exhalted" and the ones who are urgent to jump at a chance of "fame" (doubt that's the right word to use, but I'm tired) fade pretty quickly.


----------



## Alcuin (Oct 31, 2005)

The two Maiar who “volunteered” were Saruman and one of the two Blue Wizards. The sentence in “The Istari” immediately following the passage I just cited reads,


> The note ends with the statement that Curumo [Saruman] took Aiwendil [Radagast] because Yavanna begged him, and that Alatar took Pallando as a friend.


If you’d like to think of the Istari as “volunteers” and “conscripts,” you essentially have two “volunteers,” Saruman and Pallando; one “conscript,” Gandalf; one Maia who went because his friend asked him to go, Pallando; and one, Radagast, who went because his sponsor (Yavanna) twisted the leader’s arm. By the way, there is no indication in these passages whether Radagast “volunteered” or not.

In the end, the inclusion of Radagast the Brown was important because although Saruman used him to entrap Gandalf, Radagast’s honesty fouled Saruman’s nefarious plans by sending Gwaihir the Windlord to Orthanc, where he rescued Gandalf.

So there were supposed to be three emissaries. Two (Saruman and Pallando) “volunteered” and one (Gandalf) was “conscripted.” Two more (Pallando and Radagast) went along for other reasons, reasons which may have had less to do with opposing Sauron and might even be considered “personal” reasons to go to Middle-earth. In the end, Five Wizards left for Middle-earth, and the last to arrive was the Grey Wizard.

Saruman, a Maia of Aulë, is the White Wizard, as opposed to Sauron, a Maia of Aulë, who is the Black Necromancer. Saruman is a “volunteer”.

Alatar is a Blue Wizard. Alatar is a “volunteer”. His friend Pallando is also a Blue Wizard: they are traveling together, and as friends, take the same color. Pallando is not one of the two original “volunteers”. Perhaps they are blue because of the Sea; perhaps because of the Sky; or maybe both or neither. It seems like an endless debate for which there is little evidence, except that they are described as “two clad in sea-blue.”

Radagast is the Brown. Whether he volunteered or was commanded to go is unclear. Christopher Tolkien points out that, “There is no hint of an explanation of why Yavanna’s evident desire that the Istari should include in their number one with particular love of the things of her making could only be achieved by imposing Radagast’s company on Saruman”. As Narsil points out,


Narsil said:


> What is more “earthy” than brown?


Gandalf is Grey. While Gandalf seems to be associated with Manwë, in the chapter “Of the Maiar” in _The Silmarillion_,


> Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He too dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience.


Perhaps his color is from Nienna, whose raiment Tolkien described “Of the Flight of the Noldor”:


> And Nienna arose and went up onto Ezellohar, and cast back her grey hood


The grey color might indicate the pensive, inwardly-looking nature of Nienna and later of Gandalf, who became her pupil.


In “The Istari”, this note is made of the various colors of the Wizards:


> Of this Order the number is unknown; but of those that came to the North of Middle-earth, where there was most hope (because of the remnant of the Dúnedain and of the Eldar that abode there), the chiefs were five. The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. Others there were also: two clad in sea-blue, and one in earthen brown; and last came one who seemed the least, less tall than the others, and in looks more aged, grey-haired and grey-clad, and leaning on a staff. But Círdan from their first meeting at the Grey Havens divined in him the greatest spirit and wisest: and he welcomed him with reverence, and he gave to his keeping the Third Ring, Narya the Red.


----------



## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 31, 2005)

I just thought of something, kinda has to do with this, kinda not. What if Radagast is Tom Bombadil? He's a lover of the earth and of animals and all, and so maybe he just like started to live there like that and all. Yavannah is Queen of the Earth. Bombadil's been on earth a long long time and that doesnt mean he was in his realm the entire time. He could have came over from the West. I don know, if you think this should be in the bombadil thread you can move it.


----------



## Ingwë (Nov 1, 2005)

Erestor, I don't think it is possible because Tom lived in Midlle earth long before the arrival of the Istari. He said that he was there before the Elves, he saw the people of Numenor, etc. I don't remember the quote


----------

