# All About Britain



## tookish-girl

*British Patriotism Thread*

Well, it had to be done didn't it?!?

Rule Britainnia anyone? Or Knees up Mother Brown?

A thread to celebrate all thing British, from the peaks of Scoland, to the troughs of Wales. With a bit of England and Northern Ireland thrown in between.

You can post stirring quotes, momentous speeches or recipes for our delicous grub. Discuss footballers you've admired, singers you haven't and our wonderful literaure, which so little of us can actually be bothered to read. Remember we gave the world Tolkien. They owe us, big time. 

So get out the Union Jacks and let's hear it!


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## Idril

"What's the weather going to do today?" - most UK residents, most days.

"When I warned them (the French Gov't) that Britain would fight on alone, whatever they did, their Generals told their Prime Minister and his divided Cabinet: 'In three weeks England will have her neck wrung like a chicken.'
Some chicken! Some neck!" Churchill to Canadian Parliment _1941_ 

I'll post a recipe for Toad in the Hole next time.


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## Gary Gamgee

Let's what other great things have we given the world Television, the telephone, penicillan, computer science, evolution(or at least the theory of it), gravity(same as before), steam locomotin, the discovery of DNA, Monty Python, the Beatles and on and on...

We would like to apoligise for Sean Connery.


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## tookish-girl

Yes, that's the spirit. I would like to post a quote from that marvellous David Lean film Brief Encounter. I handed in an essay on it today, so I know it practically off by heart.

Celia Johnson: "He think's we're quite dotty, you know, and look how nice he's been. The British have always been kind to mad people"


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## Feanorian

Do you have to be British to post here? If not, is anyone else a big Manchester United fan here? Glory Glory Manchester United


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## Legolam

I am offended by this thread. I think I will start a Scottish Patriotism Thread. So there.


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## Aulë

Only one good thing has come out of the British Empire: Australia 

And I think I'll start up an Australian patriotism thread....


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## Mindy_O_Lluin

I would like to see some recipies of some really authentic British food. What exactly things are uniquely British - I mean other than scones and Yorkshire pudding? Or ARE those even British? And what the heck is a crumpet?

Sorry to say that England is one place I have never been, but always wanted to visit. I love many British things, like Sherlock Holmes (Doyle, I mean), George Eliot, Jane Austen, Thomas Hardy, the Beatles of course, the Bronte sisters, Monty Python, the BBC.


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## Celebthôl

> _Originally posted by Aulë _
> *Only one good thing has come out of the British Empire: Australia
> 
> And I think I'll start up an Australian patriotism thread.... *



no silly... the best thing to come out of the British Empire is:

ME 

HAHAHAHAH    

oooh, ima charater


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## Idril

> _Originally posted by Mindy_O_Lluin _
> *.... And what the heck is a crumpet? *


http://www.hwatson.force9.co.uk/cookbook/recipes/baking/crumpets.htm 

Try this link - it has a pic, and recipe. We eat it hot with lots of butter. Yummy


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## Celebthôl

mmhmmm, oooh yeah they are LOVERRRRRRLY especially with chocolate spread  mmmmm...


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## Mindy_O_Lluin

Oh thanks! I put Helen's cookbook in 'my favorites'. It sounds like crumpets may be what we call 'english muffins' here.

But I'll try the recipie and see. 

thanks again.


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## Lúthien Séregon

I'm English and Australian - well, actually I'm partly English and partly Arabic but live in Australia. So any English or Australian ( or Arabic  ) thread is kewl


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## Aerin

I'm suprised at all you Brits - not one mention of a Brit who helped define our language and refine poetry and theatre! I'm American, and I know him!

William Shakespeare!


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## Eliot

I am _so_ offended, I think I'll start an American Patriotism Thread! Oh wait, I already did....


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## Hadhafang

I'm American and I have vowed to sing 'God save the Queen' whenever it is played, as emphatically as our own national anthem. I made this vow after hearing the most beautiful rendition of the 'Star Spangled Banner' I had ever heard. It was sung by the Westminster Abbey Cathedral Choir in a 9/11 memorial service. I cried my eyes out at hearing it. It was such an enormous comfort for me in one of our nations darkest hours.

My fiance and I are going to England for our honeymoon in August. We are going to be spending 6 nights in London, three nights at a bed and breakfast in the Cotswolds, and three nights in a bed and breakfast near the Yorkshire Dales National Park. Does anyone have any suggestions of some cool things to see or take part in in those areas?

Also be careful on the roads in late August/early September. I am going to be renting a car to get to those destinations. Just what you needed.....another clueless American driver on the wrong side of the road.


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## tookish-girl

Oh my lord, you are going to have the best time! I grew up in Yorkshire and no matter where I've been or what I've seen there's absolutely nothing as beautiful as the Yorkshire Dales. You should try to spend a day wandering around them.

Also come to York, where I live. Of course I'm not a great tourist attraction (!) but the city was established over 2000 years ago and was invaded by the Romans and the Vikings. 
If you like history you should come to York for a day.


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## Idril

Crumpets are not English muffins - muffins are bready, baked with no holes - you split 'em and butter 'em. Can find a recipe if you'd like


Quote by the master!


_"I know that a woman is a dish for the gods, if the devil dress her not."_ - Shakespeare, Antony & Cleopatra


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## tookish-girl

We call crumpets "pikelets" round our end!

No of course you don't have to be British to post here, Feanorian, as if we close our borders to anyone, we let Legolam in didn't we?  

However, you certainly cannot be a Man United supporter. Get out of my thread or support a nice decent team like Hull City, they only lost 2-1 today! Even Rushden and Diamonds beat us


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## Aulë

Are Chelsea/Man. City supporters allowed admittance?


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## Talierin

Official Note: The staff at TTF feels these threads are a good idea and way to learn about other countries, but please note they will be deleted without notice at the first sign of bashing another country, or any arguing.


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## CelebrianTiwele

> We would like to apoligise for Sean Connery.


awwwwwwww I like Sean Connery, he's cute. I also like shakespeare (to an extent) although I can hardly understand half the stuff he was saying. I LOVE ENGLAND!!! not too big on scones, but love tea mmmmmmmmmmm. my drama teacher said we could all talk in british accents if hardly anyone showed up at our perfomances. but I will never understand the steering wheel, left side of the road thing. ::shakes head:: steering on the right is hard enough (I'm just learning to drive)


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## Mindy_O_Lluin

Don't know why I forgot about Tea and Shakespeare on my list of British Lovables. Also, the King Arthur legends.


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## Hadhafang

I am surprised that noone has mentioned these excellent products of England:

The Beatles,
Ralphe Vaughn Williams,
Edward Elgar,
Henry Purcell,
Benjamin Britten,
The Brontes,
J.R.R. Tolkien, 
and most importantly,
Saffron Burrows.....ooh-la-la!


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## Wonko The Sane

The Brontes
Jane Austen
Chaucer
Shakespeare
Blake
Byron
Shelley
Auden
Swift
Pope!

The list goes on and on.  I'm a HUGE British Literature buff.


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## legoman

Hmmm, Britain.
Don't you just love it!
whats that? yes you do? 
good choice.


yippee!
Land of hope and glory, mother of the free...

champion!


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## Mindy_O_Lluin

And to add to my list above (like Sherlock Holmes (Doyle, I mean), George Eliot, Jane Austen, Thomas Hardy, the Beatles of course, the Bronte sisters, Monty Python, Shakespeare, king Aurthur, the BBC.) and other's lists:

Mary Wollstonecraft
Gilbert and Sullivan.


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## Beleg

Hey, I love England,

A. Jane Austen lived there,
B. They started Cricket! 
C. Somehow whenever i think of yorkshire, it seems a remisicant of Heaven to me. Rolling fields of lush green grass, beautiful meadows, high moors and underground railways! wOOt! Enid Blyton and Barbara Cartland created the picture, you get the drift!


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## Frodorocks

I love Britian! All of it is beautiful, but Scotland's so green and misty and has pretty castles and lochs. Too add to the list of British lovables (maybe some people already have, I just scanned the thread) Douglas Adams and Trigger Happy TV. Funny stuff!


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## legoman

> Somehow whenever i think of yorkshire, it seems a remisicant of Heaven to me. Rolling fields of lush green grass, beautiful meadows, high moors and underground railways! wOOt! Enid Blyton and Barbara Cartland created the picture, you get the drift!


HAHAHAHA, I live in heaven, well some of the time!!! Thats brilliant...

YEAH, the BBC!


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## Idril

Hmmm.. The wonderful green counrtyside - with the smell of chicken fertilizer being sprayed into the air!


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## TheFool

Yesterday I looked round Rochester castle & cathedral, and Leeds castle as well (which is definitely not in Leeds  ).. so there's loads of really amazing old places.. everywhere! Probably my favourite that I've been to would be Housesteads on Hadrian's Wall.

And further down the list we have.. the NE coast  . Its been cleaned up now, so no more Sigourney Weaver crash-landings


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## Merlin

greatest people/things to come out of England:

Beatles
Tolkien (did you all forget??)
Churchill
Spitfire!
British food, uh wait, nevermind


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## Wonko The Sane

Roxy, England has mists, and greenery, and castles as well!!


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## Frodorocks

I know, I really love England too. Scotland just has something special... I don't know, Scottishness, that makes it especially dear to me.


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## Wolfshead

I would like to apologise to the world in general for the Spice Girls and Gareth Gates. We are all deeply sorry.

Now, onto more important matters... As Rockie says, Scotland beats England for scenery any day of the week. However, what I do miss about England is the country walks through woodland and such like down in the south. We just don't have them in northern Scotland.


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## Wolfshead

> _Originally posted by Legolam _
> *I am offended by this thread. I think I will start a Scottish Patriotism Thread. So there.*


 That's a good idea  There'd be us two and Rockie. And that would be it  Maybe better to just infiltrate the British thread...


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## Idril

I don't get the 'offended' thingy - last time I checked Scotland was still part of Britain. Now if you were N. Irish, that would be different as they are part of the United Kingdom and the British Isles but not part of Britain. 

I'd love to visit Scotland - the scenery and the lochs - something magical about the highlands. The drive up there is off putting - at least 9hrs from me to Inverness. We could take the train, but then we'd have no car at the other end. What's the best tome of year to visit?

I have a fabulous recipe for millionaire shortbread - very easy and yummy and Scottish. I'll post it soon.


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## Wolfshead

I don't think she was really being serious with the whole offence thing. Although some Scots don't like the whole being part of Britain thing - a lot of the world regards Britain as the same as England, which can be annoying.

The summer is definately the best time to visit - the weather is more reliable and it's less likely to rain 

Don't eat shortbread myself, you can almost taste the fat...


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## Ancalagon

This little introduction is quite funny and reminds one of home!


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## Frodorocks

There's a member here called wee kev from Scotland. We could get him to join. But yes, it's better to just stay here, as Scotland is a part of Britian.


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## Mindy_O_Lluin

I found here a picture of London at night.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030411.html


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## TheFool

great pic! heh, I like the M25 bit at the bottom.. could it be a traffic jam?


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## Wonko The Sane

I HATE it when people think Britain is the same as England.

My roommate and I went to see Morcheeba and when we got back I was like, "Dude that bass player was wearing a kilt!!"

My dad was like, "Were they all Scottish?" And my roommate was like, "No. Just the bass player was. The rest are British."

I was like "SCOTTISH ARE ALSO BRITISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

We argued. He refused to back down.
He angers me.


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## Frodorocks

Did you thwack him with a board?


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## Snaga

Hadhafang... the Cotswolds are gorgeous. Cheltenham is beautiful. And you are within reach of Bath, which I took Wonks to and you really shouldnt miss.


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## Wolfshead

> _Originally posted by Frodorocks _
> *Did you thwack him with a board? *


 No, that would be far too quick - I would recommend stabbing him to death with a sharpened mango whilst making him listen to old East 17 records :manical laughter:


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## Frodorocks

I just figured that thwacking was more Wonks' style. A sharpened mango? That would be a slow death.


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## Lantalasse

yes, at last a British Patriotism thread!! and since it's British and not English patriotism Scots are part of it too!

there's this quote i read in a book, i can't remember the person who wrote it, it goes something like this:
"when the English see a handsome foreigner, they say he looks like an Englishman.."

i just thought it was funny.
Also, everyone HAS to visit London at some point in their lives. it's like a Mecca thing, you know. 

and i would also like to apologise for the Spice Girls and Gareth Gates. oh and Will Young. and Prince Charles. and Tony Blair. well, you get the picture..
BUT, Master Tolkien was British, and the rest of our literature is simply amazing. (Auden, Bronte sisters, The Shelleys, Byron, T.S. Elliot, A. Tennyson, Dylan Thomas, Ezra Pound, John Keats, William Blake, Emily Dickinson, Jane Austen, and of course good old Willie Shakespeare and the list goes on and on....)


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## tookish-girl

Yes, it's true, we rule!
But we are now been politically correct, this thread is now the "All About Britain thread" as opposed to the "British Patriotism Thread". I only started it as a joke. No one understands my humour.
Speaking of humour heres another great line:
"-I'm Arthur, King of the Britons
-The Britons who are the Britons?
-We are all Britons and I am your king
-Well I never voted for you!"

Ahhhhh, Monty Python, the rest of the world should grovel at our feet for letting them loose upon them. Oh, one of the was American wasn't he? Okay, scrap that!


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## Wolfshead

Great quote that, then we have "On second thoughts, let's not go to Camelot - it's silly". Great, just great  But one of them was American? Which one?


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## Snaga

I went for a silly walk today. Well, it wasn't that silly. Quite normal really.

Look! this is where I went:http://www.highleyshrop.co.uk/360degree.html This is the view from Abdon Burf, the amusingly named Iron Age Fort. Go us with our history and beautiful countryside and stuff! We rock!!


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## Wonko The Sane

> _Originally posted by Lantalasse _
> *
> there's this quote i read in a book, i can't remember the person who wrote it, it goes something like this:
> "when the English see a handsome foreigner, they say he looks like an Englishman.."
> 
> BUT, Master Tolkien was British, and the rest of our literature is simply amazing. (Auden, Bronte sisters, The Shelleys, Byron, T.S. Elliot, A. Tennyson, Dylan Thomas, Ezra Pound, John Keats, William Blake, Emily Dickinson, Jane Austen, and of course good old Willie Shakespeare and the list goes on and on....) *



 That quote's in a book Snaga bought me. It's called the "Xenophobe's Guide to the English." That may not be where you read it but that's where I read it! (Or rather where it was read to me from! ) 

And btw, Emily Dickinson was American. She lived in Amherst, Massachusetts!!!!!  *Big Emily Dickinson buff as her real name is Emily (Emilie...  And owns all sorts of Emily Dickinson stuff*

And yes, you English DO rock!! 
Hehe. Yay Snaga and his crazy walks across England!
*wishes she was there to help him and is jealous of England and it's Iron Age forts*

YOU GUYS ARE SO SPOILED IN YOUR HISTORY!!!
WE AMERICANS ARE LIKE...SO NOT COOL COMPARED TO YOU AND YOUR HISTORY!!
YOUR HISTORY IS BETTER THAN OUR HISTORY!
AND MORE HISTORIC!!!
*continues ranting about how she was robbed at birth by being born an American in such a young country with no middle-age artifacts to speak of*


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## Wonko The Sane

MY UNION JACK SOCKS!!!

 My favourite socks!  I was going to take a picture of Tookish's American Flag socks but I forgot. *sigh*
Oh well.


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## Mindy_O_Lluin

I wonder if she was thinking of Elizabeth Barret-Browning instead of Emily D.?


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## Wonko The Sane

Perhaps...or maybe Emily Brontë?


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## tookish-girl

> _Originally posted by CraigSmith _
> *Great quote that, then we have "On second thoughts, let's not go to Camelot - it's silly". Great, just great  But one of them was American? Which one? *



Terry Gilliam! Animation bloke extraordinaire and he was Arthur's faithful servant Patsy. And the Bridgekeeper, and various other people.

Tookish now has Union Jack and American flag earrings!


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## Wonko The Sane

*Wishes she had a picture of Tookish's socks...and wants to get her ears pierced just to have the same earrings.*

I could wear a Union Jack in one ear and an American Flag in the other!!

DUAL PATRIOTISM!


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## Wolfshead

> _Originally posted by tookish-girl _
> *Terry Gilliam! Animation bloke extraordinaire and he was Arthur's faithful servant Patsy. And the Bridgekeeper, and various other people.*


 He was American? Well, that's a surprise - I guess we can't all be perfect


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## Wonko The Sane

Patsy?
Bridgekeeper?

Didn't he have an English accent?!

*scratches head*

He'd better not be faking it! Cos he fooled me!!

If he can do it I can do it!! *doesn't want to move to England and have them all shoot arrows at her like the last time she visited*


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## CelebrianTiwele

Hey I have a question. Who is the guy in 'Dressed to Kill'? Its the Brittish movie with the whole squirrel thing, you know, "You know how squirrels eat like this, and all the sudden they'll look up as if the say, 'Did I leave the gas on? No, I'm a friggen squirrel!" lol I've never seen the movie but crazy drama team guys now have that line stuck in my head!!!


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## Wonko The Sane

Michael Caine?! Him?
From THAT dressed to kill?


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## CelebrianTiwele

::shrugs:: are there more than one? he sounds farmiliar.


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## Wonko The Sane

Yes there are more than one Dressed to Kill movies...

The most recent was made in 1980 with Michael Caine...

Um...the guy who played Austin Powers' dad in the most recent Austin Powers flick?


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## Eledhwen

E. ignored previous posts, knowing nothing at all about DTK films (we English don't say 'movies', don't you know.)



> _Originally posted by Legolam _
> *I am offended by this thread. I think I will start a Scottish Patriotism Thread. So there. *


It makes me smile! I don't blame the Scots, though. When the English use the word British, they (we) are often thinking English, and prove it sooner or later.

I share Snaga1's enjoyment of Iron Age forts - there are a few round here. The Uffington one's my favourite.

By the way, It's Imber Village Open Weekend on Salisbury Plain if anyone's interested (no? oh!)


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## CelebrianTiwele

I'm afraid non of the Austin Powers flicks (haven't used that word in awhile) intrigued me so i never saw them. I guess I'll rent the one w/ michael caine. it sounds the most likely. Wonks, I know u've prob been asked this a thousand times but, where are you and snaga gonna live?


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## CelebrianTiwele

After thorough investigation (actually chatting w/ muh movie buff pal), the Dressed to Kill I'm thinking of has Eddie Izzard in it.  Thank you everyone for your help.


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## legoman

I'm sorry I seem to have stumbled into a conversation wheresomeone claims not to know who Sir Micheal Caine is!!!
Crickey, thats mad!
Have you not seen the italian job??
He is an institute of genius!


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## Wolfshead

Or even The Muppet's Christmas Carol. Michael Caine *is* Scrooge


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## CelebrianTiwele

i'm a sheltered american what can i say?  hehe i have heard of michael caine tho. i'm not too sheltered. well maybe. ::has decided to stop talking...::


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## Legolam

I'd just like to say I was JOKING about being offended. I love y'all guys!  



> Scotland's so green and misty


Roxy - I'd love to say that was a terrible generalisation, but I cycled to work in the mist this morning and with all the rain, it's certainly green round here! Not as fun as you might imagine  

I'm proud to be British, although I'll tell people I'm Scottish first because if I say British, they immediately think I'm English. Which is like calling an American a Canadian, or a Frenchman a German. It's just wrong.

PS I'm back by the way, so be prepared for some gratuitous posting to make up for my absence


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## legoman

oooh, gratuitous eh? I can't wait!

Hmm, you know what I love about britain. slang. I know every country has slang and dialects in abundance but I think we are the best at it!! Like the other day I was having a perfectly ordinary conversation with a friend about football and I said I was gonna leg someone up, and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about! haha, and I'll bet most of you don't either - isn't it brilliant.


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## Idril

> _Originally posted by legoman _
> *I said I was gonna leg someone up, and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about! haha, and I'll bet most of you don't either - isn't it brilliant. *



You're right about not knowing the reference - but it's given me visions of not very pleasent things "Yuck! get thee visions out of my head!"


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## Snaga

That's as distinct from giving someone a leg up, which means helping them climb by supporting their foot.

Hey... CALL A MOD... Legoman's a pervert... that's DISGUSTING!!! *vomit vomit* You CAN'T say that. Ewww that's SO OBSCENE.... OMG!!! How many warning points are you gonna get for that? I hope they ban you Legoman.



















J/K.... I think!


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## TheFool

You mean you were gonna Cantona someone?


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## Wonko The Sane

Celeb, Snaga and I will live in beautiful England. 

I think we've even pretty much decided on the village we want to move to and everything.  *Grins* That makes me happy.

And I LOVE the Muppet Christmas Carol. Caine was BRILLIANT as Scrooge!


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## Idril

"arghhhhhh" Wonks is coming to live in England! BEWARE! RUN! 

Then again, when you come over and get your house, you can have a house warming party and we will invade your place!


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## Snaga

We also have the Pantomime. Pantos are ace! (They don't have them in America... that's so sad!)


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## legoman

yeah, if you leg someone up you just trip them over. I never realised it was such a local phrase until about three weeks ago. great that.

sometimes, I just don't understand you people...
(btw I'm talking to IDRIL and SNAGA as if you didn't know, but I should mention now that there are other people here I don't understand but in this instance I am not refering to them...)


ooh, where is this lucky village, and is it near me? or any of my humble abodes?


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## Eliot

> _Originally posted by snaga1 _
> *We also have the Pantomime.*



What is that?


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## Wonko The Sane

You'd better get Snaga to tell you. I can't spell it.

*lies* And yay for housewarming!!!  *does happy dance*


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## Eliot

Well Snaga, what is it?


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## Wonko The Sane

*whispers* Shh...Snaga should be in bed right now!


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## Snaga

Its a traditional Christmas / New Years play mostly aimed at kids...

They are usually fairytales or traditional stories of some kind, like Cinderella, or Aladdin, or D/ick Whittington. (LOL I can't use the abbreviation of Richard! ) The hero is usually male but played by a girl, and there is usually an ugly sister or evil witch or something similar who is played by a man. The whole thing is a comedy, full of hilarious but awful jokes, singing of songs in which everyone joins in and lots of opportunities to shout 'He's behind you!' when the bad guy is about to get our hero! Oh and usually they find some way of soaking half the audience with water, and throwing lots of sweets (ie candy) into the audience.

Pantomimes are great!


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## Wonko The Sane

I WANT TO GO TO A PANTOMIME!!!!

Snaga, this Christmas-season I'm coming to visit you since you came last Christmas.  And then I can see a Pantomime.
*Dances*


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## Idril

and "oh no he isn't!" and "oh yes he is!" being shouted by the audience to the performers. 
It's a spoof on famous fairy tales, with loud costumes and makeup and very interactive. A must if you visit the UK at Christmas time.


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## Wonko The Sane

And I plan to!!! 

I can't wait to be all cozy in England for Christmas time!!


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## legoman

Yeah pantomimes!!!
we go every year and its usually around my little sisters birthday so she gets to go up on stage be humiliated and then get given even more sweets!!!!
They're the best!

heck the bbc even do one and broadcast it on TV now!!! genius.

and the celebrities that do them!!! you know in leicester last year one of the dwarves was played by kenny baker!!! R2D2!!!! brilliant!


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## Wonko The Sane

I want R2D2 to throw water and candy at me. 

*sigh*

Why have I been robbed and forced to live in this English-forsaken place.


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## Wolfshead

> _Originally posted by Wonko The Sane _
> *Why have I been robbed and forced to live in this English-forsaken place. *


 Something to do with some war of independence, wasn't it?


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## tookish-girl

Hush, CraigSmith it's still a touchy subject, they miss out on decent television too! 

I met Rolf Harris at the panto when I was a little girl pulled on stage! If Aule ever comes to this thread he'll be impressed. I don't know how famous Sir Rolf is in the U.S.


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## Wolfshead

You could be right tookish...

I imagine Rolf is probably a national icon down in Australia. They probably screen episodes of Animal Hospital every night  


> Look, let's stop with this CraigSmith nonsense, just call me Craig, alright?


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## tookish-girl

Sorry, Craig!

I asked our good friend Aule about if Rolf is as big as Aussieland and apparently:




> *Aulë says:*
> Yes, but he was more famous when he actually lived here. But now that he buggered off to Britain, we don't hear so much of him
> He's still an Aussie icon though
> Aulë says:
> With his wobble board
> Aulë says:
> And extra leg...



So there you have it!


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## legoman

But surely then he would be more popular cos they havent had to put up with him doing all that boring vet stuff!!!
They had him when he was cool!


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## Aulë

Ah yes, now that you mention it, Animal Hospital is shown on TV here but it's on the government channel, and no-one watches it (well, I don't...)


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## legoman

poor you, and there was me thinking you were safe.
muhaha, no one is safe from sick puppies!!!!


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## Frodorocks

We have animal hospital here in the U.S., but it's on the Animal Planet Channel.


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## Wonko The Sane

> _Originally posted by CraigSmith _
> *Something to do with some war of independence, wasn't it?  *



*Sulks* I don't know why I have to live with this! It's not like I got any sort of vote in the matter!!

I love Animal Planet.
But only when Animals on it eat people.
Or if there are Iguanas on it. *winks at Snaga* Or Iguanas eating people


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## Frodorocks

Actually, I'm kind of glad that I was born American. America is a nice country, and if I was born in Britain, I might take it for granted.


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## Idril

That's a fair point. Although I was born in London, I have spent just under half my life outside Britain. I think many Brits do take all the wonderful things about Britain for granted. Like the old saying - you don't know appreciate you had until you've lost it.


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## Snaga

Wonks, I'm really lost on this whole iguana thing. 

History? Bah! Gimme volcanoes any day! We dont have any...


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## Legolam

I had an argument the other night with someone, who will remain nameless, about the negative attitude in Britain - "it could be worse".


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## Frodorocks

Hey Snaga! I'll trade you Mt. St. Helen's for Stonehenge!


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## Snaga

Done and DONE!!


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## Frodorocks

*Drools over her new Stonehenge and wonders where to put it.* *Gives it back to Snaga.* Keep St.Helens. I can't take Stonehenge, that would be a blasphemy against all things cool and British, like the fact that the original London Bridge is in Arizona.


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## legoman

yeah, buts only cos the american was stupid and bought the wrong bridge, hahahaha. I love that story. hahahaha. Silly american, got us a nice new bridge from that. hahaha.

but snaga1, you can't just give away stonehenge, give them something we won't miss like... the mull of kintyre. Yeah, come on, that's just bad memories!!!


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## Eledhwen

> _Originally posted by Frodorocks _
> *Hey Snaga! I'll trade you Mt. St. Helen's for Stonehenge! *


For sheer impact, I much prefer the Avebury stone circle to Stonehenge. They're in the same county if anyone's visiting. Avebury village has a great pub (the Red Lion) and is built alongside/among the stones - the circle is much bigger; you can walk among the stones and touch them. An avenue of stones leads off southwards towards Silbury Hill - another prehistoric monument.

Also, Wiltshire is seismically inactive, so you can keep Mt. St. Helen's, thanks!


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## legoman

Isn't mount St Helens the one that fell down?
Why do we want that.
Bad choice snaga1, get one of those big ones next time, they've got loads of them. Swap it for, I dunno, spurn point. Nothing happens there.


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## Wonko The Sane

> _Originally posted by snaga1 _
> *Wonks, I'm really lost on this whole iguana thing.
> 
> History? Bah! Gimme volcanoes any day! We dont have any... *



I'll explain later...I can't believe you don't remember that phone convo.

And Mt. St. Helen's didn't fall down. It ERUPTED. 

And Snaga PLATE TECTONICS GEEK loves volcanoes. Especially active ones.  Which is why he wants it. 

Anyway, Roxie you're not a Washingtonian are you? You can't give them our mountain!!!


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## legoman

yeah, well, fell down/erupted, the fact is half of its missing, and its not worth swapping anything in england for half an old volcano, don't we know anyone in siscily, they've got a good one, we could have that!

anyone live near mount etna?


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## Wonko The Sane

No. But I'm going to take Snaga there to visit.  He likes volcanoes mucho much.

Also, I have TWO Union Jack badges, now, and of course my socks, if anyone can help me find a flag I'd be happy.  And Snaga says if he sees any "Cool Brittania" badges he'll get me one.  Yay.


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## Arebeth

> _Originally posted by Mindy_O_Lluin _
> *Don't know why I forgot about Tea and Shakespeare on my list of British Lovables. Also, the King Arthur legends. *



Mmm... Most of the King Arthur legends are actually French (well, written by Frenchmen: Chrétien de Troyes,...). Sorry for that. I still love them.


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## Arebeth

(Sorry for the double-post, I just finished reading these thread)

I've never seen Scotland or Wales (Shame on me! It's not that I don't want to, I can assure you...), but I just love being in England. It's a strange feeling, actually I don't know where it come from, but it must be something in the air, or the places, or the accents, or the people... I really want to live somewhere in Britain... One day...


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## Idril

> _Originally posted by Wonko The Sane _
> *if anyone can help me find a flag I'd be happy.  *



Wonks I can get you a Union Jack (and lets not forget England's St Georges flag) - what size? My son collects flags - we have loads.


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## Wonko The Sane

Wow.  A Union Jack AND a British flag?
I don't care what size really.
Ideally I want one for my wall. 

And Arabeth...I echo those sentiments exactly.


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## Idril

> _Originally posted by Wonko The Sane _
> *Wow.  A Union Jack AND a British flag?
> *



another lesson in being Brit The Union Jack is the flag of the UK (that's the red white and blue one). The St George's Flag is England's flag - red cross on white background.

see here 

I'll have a look and see what I can find


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## Arebeth

I love the Welsh flag...


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## Talierin

I have a huge welsh flag hanging on my ceiling  it's my favorite flag. My uncle got it for me when he was in England.


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## Frodorocks

Doesn't the Welsh flag have a harp or something on it? I kind of remember that it looks cool.
But my favourite is the St. Andrew's cross. A white X type shape on a blue background. 
I'm special.  Over the summer I learned what the difference between the U.K. and Great Britain is. The U.K. is The United Kingdom of Great Britain, North Ireland, and the Dominions. Britain is Scotland, England, Wales, and North Ireland. 
Question: If North Ireland is part of Britain, why is it mentioned seperately in the title of the U.K.? 
Sorry if I sound stoned or dumber than usual, I'm so tired I have to work to make my eyes focus.


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## Talierin

Welsh flag is half white, half green, with a big red dragon on it


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## Idril

> _Originally posted by Frodorocks _
> *Britain is Scotland, England, Wales, and North Ireland.
> Question: If North Ireland is part of Britain, why is it mentioned seperately in the title of the U.K.?
> Sorry if I sound stoned or dumber than usual, I'm so tired I have *



*Great Britain * (or just plain Britain) comprises of _only_ England, Scotland and Wales (not NI).

*British Isles* are Britain; Ireland (both NI and the Republic of Ireland to the south) and the Channel Islands.

*The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland* was created when NI joined up with Britain. One kingdom being Britain and the other being Northern Ireland. But not the Channel Islands which belong to the Crown (like a colony) with a Governor and their own parliament, laws, taxes.

I had not heard of the Dominions or Colonies being a part of the UK - I always thought they were just part of the now defunct British Empire -where the sun never set.

It is confusing, but hope this helps


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## Aulë

What is Britain's flag made up of?
Scotlands (St Andrews), Englands (St George)....


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## TheFool

http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/union-jack.html You asked for it mate! 

And there's the whole Commonwealth thing as well


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## Idril

> _Originally posted by Aulë _
> *What is Britain's flag made up of?*



The site I posted earlier is abit simpler - 10 Downing St


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## Wolfshead

> Doesn't the Welsh flag have a harp or something on it?


 That'd be the Irish flag, I believe.


> But my favourite is the St. Andrew's cross. A white X type shape on a blue background.


 Yeah, Scotland's is cool (I'm not byist or anything...). What's even better, is the Lion Rampant (the yellow flag with red lion). It's Scotland's royal flag.


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## Frodorocks

Wow, I've learned more new stuff! Yay!


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## Arebeth

> _Originally posted by CraigSmith _
> *That'd be the Irish flag, I believe.*



Actually the Celtic harp in on the Irish euros, so I suppose it's a national symbol.

I've got a question: are there still people who speak Celtic languages? Welsh, Irish (I *know* it's not the right place for Ireland, please excuse me)? Because when I went to Dublin I only heard two people speaking gaelic and it's such a beautiful language...


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## Idril

I don't know about Ireland, but Welsh is the first language in North Wales and some other areas of Mid and South Wales - all lessons are taught in Welsh only for primary school. There has been a big drive to keep the language alive - as for it's usefulness outside of Wales - that's another question.


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## Frodorocks

I don't speak Gaelic, but I'd love to learn it. It is beautiful. But as Idril said, outside of Gaelic countries, it wouldn't be very useful.


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## Ancalagon

In Northern Ireland efforts are being made to increase the usage of the Irish Language. Signs, jobs advertisements, Government documents etc. are all presented in English and Irish now. It is part of the equality and human rights agenda brought in to encourage the development of the peace process and appease the Nationalist community. We also have a movement who wish to see inclusion of Ulster Scots, so road signs would read in three languages if they get their way...its political correctness gone mad! Mad I tell you, Mad


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## Inderjit S

> South Wales



I thought that English was the predominant language within South Wales, whenever I have been to S.W none of the Welsh people even knew Welsh! Though I did go to Cardiff and Newport, which are not part of rural Wales. Also my sister went to Aberystwyth uni. for 3 years and she never learnt a word of Welsh, and since Aber. can be seen as being part of 'mid' Wales we can see that English is sadly (IMO) predominant there too. Though Aber. is on the coast, maybe Welsh is more pre-dominant in the inner, rural areas. 

The spread of English is IMO, a sad thing. A lot of countries are shedding their indigenous languages and keeping English instead, thus losing a large part of their culture. Whilst were on the topic, I heard one of the most pathetic quotes ever on t.v recently when some teenage girl said, on how she would make the world better:



> I would teach everyone in the world to speak English
> because it's is easier for everyone. Like, I would go to Japan to teach them Englsih so everyone could communicate


 ARF.

Also, whilst we are on the topic of political correctness gone mad, a lot of people frown upon the reverent use of the British National
Flag and a lot of people upon seeing it in your car, house window would typecast you as being some sort of BNP-member who is over-reverent of his nation.


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## Wonko The Sane

> _Originally posted by Idril _
> *another lesson in being Brit The Union Jack is the flag of the UK (that's the red white and blue one). The St George's Flag is England's flag - red cross on white background.
> 
> see here
> 
> I'll have a look and see what I can find *



That actually wasn't my stupidity...that was a mistake in typing...I thought English and typed British. I was actually reading through the posts and I came to that error and I was about to make fun of the person until I realised it was me. 

Trust me...I do know the difference...just a typing error.  Sometimes my hands don't do what my brain intends. 


AAAH!  I feel so dumb for doing something I yell at others for doing...But at least mine was out of careless typing and not just ignorance.


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## Idril

That's ok - I didn't mean to sound like I was lecturing - a bad habit which comes with the job of being a mom. 

I've ordered you 2 flags anyway - should be arriving this week.


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## Wonko The Sane

Wow, really?! AWESOME!
(no hard feelings about the correction. I almost scolded myself!)

FLAGS!! So great! YAY!  How much do I owe you?  I can pick them up when I come to visit Snaga.


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## Wolfshead

> _Originally posted by Arebeth _
> *
> 
> I've got a question: are there still people who speak Celtic languages?*


 In northern Scotland you see a lot of signs and such like in Gaelic, however, the number of people that can actually speak gaelic is quite low. It's only really spoken a lot in islands off the west coast now. Some schools teach it (you can learn it at my school), but frankly, it has now real use now, because next to no one speaks it. Sadly, it's a dying language.


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## Wonko The Sane

But it's a beautiful language, and one that, like Latin, is fun to learn purely for it's importance to other cultures and other languges.

And Arebeth...have you ALWAYS been Arebeth...or did you used to be Arabeth...or is it my imagination and I've always read your name wrong?


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## Arebeth

> _Originally posted by Wonko The Sane _
> *
> And Arebeth...have you ALWAYS been Arebeth...or did you used to be Arabeth...or is it my imagination and I've always read your name wrong? *



I can assure you I've always been Arebeth... Strange...


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## Wonko The Sane

Yes...quite. I must be brain-dead....


Anyway, since I leave for England on the 16th, and want to go sightseeing, anybody have any suggestions? 

I wanna see the world!


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## Snaga

*starts manically tidying up*

Welsh is most prevalent in North Wales. In some places it is still the first language. I hope it stays that way. Worldwide, so many languages are dying out its frightening.

Have a quick look at this short article to get a feel for the extent of the problem. Language Death When a language dies, the distinctiveness of a people and their culture goes with it. Its truly sad.


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## Rhiannon

I hate the thought of such beautiful languages dying out. I would really love to learn Welsh. I would really love to live in Britain. There are obstacles to be surmounted, unfortunately. 

Me: "Mom, Dad, I'd like to move to Wales for several years, learn Welsh, and write books. I will probably be dead broke for the rest of my life, never marry, and have no friends, but I will be happy, eccentric, and somewhat cultured. I would like your support in this venture."

My parents: "Hah." 

But I have a friend who is doing that very thing (except she's married), and her advice is to 'go armed with Stafford grants and a great sense of destiny'. I have destiny oozing out of my pores, when can I leave?


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## Arebeth

Rhi, you're so right.

I will live in Britain, one day. I don't know where, I don't know when, but...
The awful thing is: when I'm in Britain it seems so natural, as if I was born there, but when I come back to Belgium I start missing it so much that I feel sick. Physically sick.
I need to be there, I even forget how asocial I am, just like nothing bad could happen. I love sitting in some English park and reading a book, even if I know I will have to leave the next day. I usually cry on the ferry back home. (I've taken the Eurostar once but I hated it. You don't see the white cliffs in the mist.) I wish I could study there, but my parents aren't so enthusiastic either.


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## Idril

Rhiannon you could apply to go to Bangor University in N'Wales. My Canadian cousin teaches there and it was abit of o culture shock as the University forgot to tell before they relocated that Welsh is the 1st language in the area and that their kids would be taught in Welsh - his poor wife hasn't been able to get a job because she doesn't speak Welsh. I know she has tried, but it's a hard language to learn as there are very few vowels. Try this for the longest UK place name: 

Rhiannon you could apply to go to Bangor University in N'Wales. My Canadian cousin teaches there and it was abit of o culture shock as the University forgot to tell before they relocated that Welsh is the 1st language in the area and that their kids would be taught in Welsh - his poor wife hasn't been able to get a job because she doesn't speak Welsh. I know she has tried, but it's a hard language to learn as there are very few vowels. Try this for the longest UK place name : 

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

edit: Arghhh... it is all one word, for some reason it won't fit on 1 line! 

The name translates as 'St Mary's church in the hollow of the white hazel near a rapid whirlpool and the church of St Tysilio of the red cave'.


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## Rhiannon

I've heard of that, Idril- it really is a place?


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## Snaga

It really exists... crazy Welsh people!

What nationality are you Arebeth? It seems strange to miss a place you've never lived in. But if you have a EU passport, then living and working in Britain will be no problem for you when the time is right.

If only it was that simple for Wonks... We're gonna have to go through visa hell when she finally comes to live here.


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## Arebeth

I know it's strange, I wasn't expecting you to understand .
But that's just how it is. I feel that way...
I'm Belgian, (as it is written just there on the left...), so I know it's not a problem for me to study in the UK; the main thing is to get my parents used to the idea. I also fear that my English might not be good enough to attend a Britsh university in two years -which means I would have to be quite fluent next year, because of the admission and everything...(if I finally convince my parents to pay for it, it will be because of the name of the university, I'm afraid.)They don't really want me to have a gap year, so if I fail I will have to stay and study in Belgium. *sigh...*
The fact is that I read in English, I write, but I almost never speak, and given the English of my teacher at school she's not going to help me a lot. That's the whole thing, because I don't think they can reject me because of my results or my school or something like that. And there's also the financial bit.


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## Idril

> _Originally posted by snaga1 _
> *If only it was that simple for Wonks... We're gonna have to go through visa hell when she finally comes to live here. *



I don't believe it's as bad as you think, my brother married a non-British citizen outside the UK and when he returned with his wife, they gave her temporary residency (or something like that) anyway, you generally have to wait 5 years before you can apply for anything more permanant (to make sure it's not a marriage of convenience), but she got her permanant status after just 2 years. I would think that since Wonks is a US citizen, you would have very little problem (unlike if you were marrying a Jamaican or from other high risks groups). Granted things may have changed as my brother married 10yrs ago.


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## Gary Gamgee

> [iLlanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch [/B]



Ive been there. For a town with such a large name its tiny 

I reckon British Rail was brought down because of the cost of the station signs. But I liked the way they wrote it out phonetically as well, we had fun for half an hour saying it.


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## Idril

Snaga, look at this page:home office 

I too have been to Llanfair PG (shorten form) - I'm just trying to find the photo taken at the station to prove it

Yay! I found some - taken in 2000


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## Starflower

well ... I thought England was really lovely ,watching all the lovely tv shows you get a pretty unrealistic idea of the country

then I moved in here, the reality isn't quite so rosy. London is big, noisy, dirty as hell, people are rude and houses are dreadful to live in 

but strangely enough, I like it here, there are lovely little villages if you know where to look for them, sometimes the people just surprise you by being friendly....

Worst thing for me has been to get used to the amount of people here.... they are everywhere! all the time! you just can't get away from them! 

but I guess I'll stay after all... there are worse places in the world 



Starflower


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## Snaga

Idril: I hope you're right and thank you

Arebeth: I saw that you live in Belgium but I was wondering if you had British roots or something? If you can read and write English then I bet if you came to live here you would improve your spoken English very quickly. I can tell you as well that there are plenty of overseas students whose English isnt great.

You are right that we Brits are rude. I can't deny it. Its as though we're trying to make up for the mythical politeness, by going in the opposite direction. Londoners are known for being especially rude. That's probably why all the movie-orcs had Cockney accents!

(Yes I was born in London ... yeah, so what??? wanna make something of it??   )

And yes, England is overcrowded too. But there are unspoilt parts and they are very precious to us Brits


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## Wonko The Sane

> _Originally posted by Arebeth _
> *I know it's strange, I wasn't expecting you to understand .
> But that's just how it is. I feel that way...
> *



I understand...and I feel the same way.  Sounds like Rhia might as well. 
And if you want to improve your spoken English you should get a native speaker to talk to you on the phone or something sometimes. 

Idril, thanks so much for the help!  And that picture is awesome! Silly Welsh.

And anyway, if the people in England are rude that's not change from Americans...we're evil. And I like itty bitty English houses. 

Anyway...I'm excited to live there.  It's just super!
And I leave tomorrow for a REALLY LONG VISIT!  Yay!


(Starflower, where are you from originally?)


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## Rhiannon

> Sounds like Rhia might as well.



And I haven't even ever been there. 

Not personally, anyway- Vicariously, yes. My dad brought me a Cambridge University shirt.


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## Wonko The Sane

Well, I know you haven't been there, that's why I said, "Might" I thought that if you ever did get a chance to go you'd probably be like me and Arebeth...sort of inexplicably drawn to it, I guessed that from the fact that you already seem to be. 

I don't know why...but Great Britain (and Ireland too) have always had this magnetic pull on my soul.
My grandpa gave me a worry stone made out of Irish marble when I was about 11 or so...and I don't know why...
Somehow rubbing that piece of Ireland when I was upset made me feel better...
I dunno...and I've ALWAYS loved English literature and history and things.


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## Rhiannon

Yeah- I'm taking an early US history class right now, and the first unit has been entirely about colonisation, and to understand _that_ we had to go in to British history; and I was more interested in the British history than anything else.

My sister says this is because of the romantic in me.

But I prefer being in a foreign country to just about anything else (not that I don't love my own very much, it's just I've seen most of it already); not just visiting but living. It's the only way to get to know a place (says the military brat). And I love the history and the literature, and I spent most of today and yesterday reading a mystery set in Oxford. What's a girl to do?


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## Wonko The Sane

I agree with you...I love the US but there's something so...yummy...about something foreign...

And I haven't spent nearly enough time in other parts of the world...

There are loads of places I want to visit...and even though I know I won't get the chance...loads of places I'd like to live for a while too. 

Like, how cool would it be to live in Greece for a bit?! Or Tokyo? Or Rome?!


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## Rhiannon

Tokyo = crowded trains, narrow streets with scary drivers, massive amounts of traffic, even more massive amounts of pollution. _But_ some very good museums, gorgeous Mount Fuji (when you can see it for the smog), beautiful mountains (Rhiannon hates flat Oklahoma), beautiful countryside (what there is of it), fascinating culture, gorgeous shrines, temples, and gardens. There just isn't a whole lot that's more beautiful than a Japanese garden, a real one.


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## Starflower

Wonko : I'm originally from Finland ( look up to the north eastern corner of Europe, next to Russia)


How long are you going to stay here in England ? are you coming to stay for good already ?




Starflower


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## Estella Bolger

Go britain, and Ireland for that matter. I am so proud of being part of both these nations. Though I live in England I would like to see Japan, if just for a while.


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## Rhiannon

Japan is very definitely worth seeing. It's biggest downsides are the pollution and being crowded. But everyone is so polite, it's not so bad.


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## Arebeth

> _Originally posted by Wonko The Sane _
> And if you want to improve your spoken English you should get a native speaker to talk to you on the phone or something sometimes.



I'd love to do that. The problem is to find one... (And to pay the phone)

Japan is absolutely great. I don't know Tokyo, but I've seen Nara, and gardens, both of which are beautiful, as Rhi said. People are always so polite, it's incredible. I stayed in a Japanese family for a while this Summer (in Nagoya) and I really loved the country.

Greece is beautiful, too. And Ireland. Unfortunately, I've never seen Rome. 



> And I haven't even been there



Mmmm, I was already that obsessed a long time before actually going to Britain (since I was 10, in fact). I finally saw Ireland when I was 12 (but not much of it), the South of England last Spring and London this Summer. Never too late. I just wondered how I could have lived for 15 years without seeing England.


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## jejeje

Aah, i always find the good threads months later. Well, Britain is great anyway. That is why they called it Great Britain.


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## Frodorocks

jejeje said:


> Aah, i always find the good threads months later. Well, Britain is great anyway. That is why they called it Great Britain.



It would have been closer to the mark if they called it Awesome Amazing 
Stupendous Fantastic Fabulous Wonderful Britain.


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## Snaga

They tried that but it made the acronym too long. Its spoils TV coverage of the Olympics to have ridulously long acronyms next to the competitors name. Its distracting. Just another example of the excessive power of the media, if you ask me.


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## Frodorocks

Snaga said:


> They tried that but it made the acronym too long. Its spoils TV coverage of the Olympics to have ridulously long acronyms next to the competitors name. Its distracting. Just another example of the excessive power of the media, if you ask me.



Ahh. Bad luck then.


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