# Moria after Balrog



## DurinLongBeard (Feb 12, 2003)

This might be a stupid question but then I want to know... After the Balrog was killed by gandalf and sauron defeated did the dwarves ever enter Moria and reestablish the empire there? Could someone help me out????


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 12, 2003)

Welcome to the Forum Durin! Good question. Ill have ta think about that one...


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## Ancalagon (Feb 12, 2003)

Do you know something DurinlongBeard (welcome to the forum ), this is something I have always desired to learn more about. Surely such a magnificent place could not lie uninhabited throughout the ages of the Sun! I will endeavour to look into this more when time permits and attempt to furnish you with an answer.

One thing I can say with certainty is that the Dwarf nation itself was dramatically diminished even prior to the War of the Ring, so for them to attempt to estabish a community within Moria would have been difficult, not for any other reason than manpower. Also, it is worth considering that Orcs fled back into the hills following the destruction of Mordor, which means although they did not reveal themselves, they still lurked in the dark places of the mountains...and other more dreadful creatures I do not doubt!

Good question, lots to think about


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## DurinLongBeard (Feb 12, 2003)

Thankyou Ancalagon. I don't understand though in the book there is a statement on page 1053 in the appendices saying that

"After the fall of Sauron, Gimli brought south a part of the Dwarf-folk Erebor, and he became Lord of the Glittering Caves. He and his people did great works in Gondor and Rohon. For Minas Tirith they forged gates of mithril and steel to replace those broken by the Witch-king."

If they could man the Glittering Caves couldn't they handle Moria? 
Dwarves are quite strong, and could probably take over moria like balin did, and without the balrog, I think they could slowly retake it too.
Or possibly if they had mithril in the Glittering Caves , one of their greatest desires, not even wish to go back the mines?


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## LordOfMoria (Feb 12, 2003)

Hey, im still confused on what a balrog is. Liek how it came into being! I was told once but didnt understand. could someone put it in plain language??


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 12, 2003)

Im not really sure, but they were Maia, and were corupted. thats pretty much all I know. 

And DurinLongBeard, we have different editions most likely, so the page numbers may not be acurate, but the Glittering Caves are much smaller than Moria, and there was no Mithril in the Glittering Caves. As for retaking it, I dont think the Balrog played any role in driving the Dwarves from Khazad-Dûm. I supose that if the Dwarves could muster a great part of their strength, they could retake Moria. And, there were no Orcs in the Glittering Caves, so it would be very easy to inhabit it. much easier than an Orc infested Dwarven capitol.


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## redline2200 (Feb 12, 2003)

Simply put, Balrogs were evil Maia corrupted by Morgoth in the first age. After The War of Wrath, Morgoth was defeated and all the remaining Balrogs went into hiding. That is how the dwarves found that balrog; they stumbled upon his hiding place.

If you want it more simple then basically they are just demons with fire-whips.


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## olorin the maia (Feb 12, 2003)

and nasty attitudes....

but I don't agree with the MorgulKing the Moria Balrog didn't have anything to do with the destruction of the Dwarves there. They awoke it from sleep, or loosed its bonds (or something to that effect) when they delved too deep, searching for mithril. The orcs came to stay after the Dwarves were driven out.
It is an enticing thought, that of Moria, rebuilt and spendid again!


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## Lantarion (Feb 13, 2003)

Olorin (haha, I sometimes use that name on the net), first of all, welcome to the forum! 
Uh, but it was due to the Balrog that Khazad-dûm became empty. That's why it was called Durin's Bane. 
I understood that Moria was reinhabited after the War of the Ring; but apparently not by Gimli, as he went to Aglarond (_Glæmscrâfu_ in Rohirric ) and after that he traveled around with Legolas, before sailing away..
I'm at school now and don't have the Silmarillion or the LotR with me, so I'll have to get back to you..


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## Ol'gaffer (Feb 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *I'm at school now and don't have the Silmarillion or the LotR with me, so I'll have to get back to you.. *



    

What??!! Since when have you stopped carrying your bible and shrine with you?? That's not what you're like!!
(We go to the same school with Lantarion so we know each other)


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## Lantarion (Feb 13, 2003)

Right, back to the topic, eh.


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## Aulë (Feb 13, 2003)

The sheer number of orcs would have kept the dwarves out (Most of Balin's dwarves were killed by the orcs). And it was not just orcs dwellings in Moria, do not forget the Watcher in the Water, it was stated that there were many other evil beings dwellings in the mines other than orcs.


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## olorin the maia (Feb 13, 2003)

the Watcher in the Water.....now where do you suppose that creature escaped from? It is portrayed as some sort of Kraken, a fresh-water variety, but I wonder.... And by whose command did it watch the West Door? It can't have been very old, because neither Gandalf nor Aragorn mention it in their talk about previous trips into Moria. A very odd duck, oops, beast, uh, thing.


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 13, 2003)

And, just a litle fun fact, it grabbed Frodo out of all the company. Tolkein even made a note of it in the book. So i assume that he was being payed off in fisheys from Sauron


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by olorin the maia _
> *And by whose command did it watch the West Door? It can't have been very old, because neither Gandalf nor Aragorn mention it in their talk about previous trips into Moria. *



The fact that Aragorn and Gandalf don't mention the Watcher is due to their not knowing about it, most likely.

Here is a thread on the Watcher - Who controlls the Watcher in the Water?


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## olorin the maia (Feb 13, 2003)

I think they don't know about it because neither it nor the lake was there when they made their journeys in Moria. The Sirannon, the Gate-stream, had been dammed up to form a lake which the Watcher apparently found commodious. Gandalf, when leading the way to Moria after the Company's near-disaster on Caradharas, commented on the missing water, and wondered at it. Anyway, the creature almost certainly was in cahoots with Sauron: fishies, forsooth! It is correctly pointed out that Frodo was its first choice among the Nine Walkers.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 14, 2003)

How deep was Sirannon? Enough to harbour the Watcher within it? Perhaps it fed and grew and therefore needed bigger living arrangements? 
I most definitely think that the Watcher functioned independently of Sauron. For any reasons, check the thread I linked to.


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## olorin the maia (Feb 15, 2003)

The Sirannon flowed through a shallow valley, which had been dammed up in order to make the lake.


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## Beleg (Feb 17, 2003)

Back to the original Question.

Here's an interesting thread. 

http://www.tolkiendebates.com/showthread.php?threadid=77


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## balrog (Feb 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *And, just a litle fun fact, it grabbed Frodo out of all the company. Tolkein even made a note of it in the book. So i assume that he was being payed off in fisheys from Sauron *



lol too funny Morgulking!

I was under the assumption that it grabbed Frodo first simply due to the fact that evil was drawn to Frodo, because of his possesion of the ring.


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## krash8765 (Feb 20, 2003)

I know this is not that reliable but it may be true-
From the encyclopedia of arda it states


> He led Durin's Folk back to recolonise Khazad-dûm during the Fourth Age, where they remained 'until the world grew old and the Dwarves failed and the days of Durin's race were ended.'1


 That is Durin the seventh who was the last of durings line. but it also says that this was never told in the Lord of the Rings and might have been rejected by Tolkien himself. But i still think it could be possible that the dwarves could repopulate Moria.


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## DurinLongBeard (Feb 20, 2003)

thanks krash! i think the dwarves could repopulate moria also!


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