# More Riddles in the Dark



## Eledhwen

Continuing this favourite Hobbit pastime.
The answers must come from Middle Earth.
An easy one to start with...

What or who am I?

Sword with a button belonging to kings
With power to heal your cuts and stings
Despised by masters of healing lore
But healer of heroes of Pelennor
Stemming the power of the blackest breath
Bringing them back from the brink of death.

Answer the riddle, then make up your own.


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## Aulë

Athelas/Kingsfoil?


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## Eledhwen

Spot on! Are you going to post a riddle now?


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## Aulë

My eyes opened before the Elves awoke,
But it was some time until I ruled my folk.
In the Mountains of Mist I made my home,
The story of my life was told in poem.
I myself am my own heir,
And in the future I shall reclaim my lair.


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## Lhunithiliel

Aulë said:


> My eyes opened before the Elves awoke,
> But it was some time until I ruled my folk.
> In the Mountains of Mist I made my home,
> The story of my life was told in poem.
> I myself am my own heir,
> And in the future I shall reclaim my lair.


Durin I-st???


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## Aulë

Yep, you're turn


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## Eledhwen

It isn't my turn, but it has been a while...

Tall and green
And seldom seen
My name is the same
As the place I have been
A dwindling realm
Of oak, ash and elm
Till roused up to fight
With long-hidden might


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## Manveru

Yay! Another "riddle-thread"
Say, Eledhwen, is it Fangorn by chance? (not sure though, just passing by)


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## Eledhwen

An angel with the heart of a hobbit!

Yes, it's Fangorn/Treebeard.

Would you care to write a riddle now?


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## Manveru

Eledhwen said:


> An angel with the heart of a hobbit!





Eledhwen said:


> Would you care to write a riddle now?


With pleasure... here it goes like this:

_I'm the Enemy's greatest tool
Silent, but deadly strong.
My knocking's both dreadful
And terrible as a foul gong.
In dark thoughts' depth
Lays my very fond.
I'm the reason for King's death
And my name is ..._


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## Eledhwen

....Grond?


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## Manveru

*that was tooooooo easy*

Well, rhymes fit, right?

Of course it is... you're turn, Eledhwen, yet again.


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## Eledhwen

Dark is my maker, and dark am I.
Found and forged, I fell from the sky.
Anguirel's brother, Beleg's bane,
Who Turin wielded; on whom Turin was slain.


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## Gandalf The Grey

Anglachel.


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## Eledhwen

Well done; you know your Sil.

Your turn!


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## Gandalf The Grey

Thank you, Eledhwen. 

Courtesy of the oxen of Rhûn
All Gondor I lent a noble tune
Inlaid with silver, adorned with signs
Cloven by Orcs, mourned as a sign
Backwards must the sad river run
When a father inherits from his son.


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## Eledhwen

The Horn of Boromir.

If I am right, I will not post again this evening, and in the meantime I invite someone new to think of a riddle.


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## Gandalf The Grey

Indeed, you're right, Eledhwen! 

* lights a comfortable pipebowl of Old Toby while awaiting the next riddle, gesturing a welcome with his arm towards any other already-settled guests or wandering passers-by who may wish to join in and provide the next conundrum *


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## Manveru

Eledhwen said:


> The Horn of Boromir.
> 
> If I am right, I will not post again this evening, and in the meantime I invite someone new to think of a riddle.


Do I have to consider myself an "old-middle-earth-riddle-rambler"? (hmm, maybe... i've written so many of them so far--mostly into my drawer)
If so, well, I won't post another one...

*orbits around the place, waiting for incoming riddle* (make it quick, anyone, can't flap for too long)


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## Lhunithiliel

Boy! I've lost this thread and I remember I had the right to post a riddle here!!!! 
So... here it goes: (no poetry!  )

_One and one - makes two, I'd say.
Two and two - a fine four - you'd boast.
But no worse "student" I am!
So, I'm adding two more and there - equal we become in score!_

Guess the event and the participants in it.  

***********

Oh! I love these new smilies!


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## Manveru

Hmm... let's gather around, grampy Gandalf!
Fellowship of the Ring with four Hobbits: Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin; an Elf, Legolas; Gimli, son of Gloin (for the Dwarves); already mentioned grampy G; and two Men: Aragorn (better known as Strider; to some at least) with Boromir of Gondor...
hmm... if I count well... there's whole nine... (_equal in score_ to those not so fluffy (in comparison to some) flying objects)
Looking for them, oh, _wraith_?

 (smilies suck)


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## Lhunithiliel

Nah! Wrong! 

And don't mind too much the said scores! It's the "mathematical" process that is important!
And look out for any and all punctuation marks!


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## Manveru

grrr... tricksy _wraith_!

I'm so lousy when math's at hand...


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## Lhunithiliel

What now????
No one?.... ANYone???


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## Eledhwen

I am going through all the events in Middle-earth that could possibly fit the maths. I even looked at marriages and births, sword reforgings, gatherings of people, etc. but so far you have me beaten. Also, I don't get the 'student' bit.


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## Lhunithiliel

Ah! Mortals!!! 

A hint then - LOTR-event it is. Not Silmarillion or Hobbit.

Am I not mercyful !!!


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## Melian_the_Maya

One (Frodo, the initial bearer) + one (Sam, the chosen companion) are supposed to leave the Shire and head for Rivendell. Two (Merry and Pippin) are added. You add two more (Strider/Aragorn/Ellesar/Elfstone/Dunadan/etc and Glorfindel) and you get to the flight to the Ford.


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## Aulë

Lhunithiliel said:


> _One and one - makes two, I'd say._
> _Two and two - a fine four - you'd boast._
> _But no worse "student" I am!_
> _So, I'm adding two more and there - equal we become in score!_


I'm getting the feeling that the last line is referring to Merry and Pippin, since they were added to the fellowship so there were the same number of companions as the were Nazgúl.
I have no idea what the "student" part is though...

Perhaps the "one and one" are Frodo and Sam
the "four" are Gimli, Boromir, Legolas and Aragorn...
But then Gandalf doesn't fit the "student" part at all...


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## Lhunithiliel

Oh! Where is this Middle Earth World going to end up, if even _immortals_ have lost their devine senses?!!!  

Another hint (_there must be sth. wrong with my ring if I'm being so good!!!_  ) :

Don't mind too much the numbers mentioned! It's the *"matematical process"* that reveals the riddle and also some words used - not the numbers so much!


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## Manveru

Lhunithiliel said:


> Don't mind too much the numbers mentioned! It's the *"matematical process"* that reveals the riddle and also some words used - not the numbers so much!


hey, we've had that one already... not fair 

c'mon, mathematicians, relieve me of that "thingy"


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## Melian_the_Maya

No, wait, I think I get it. I think it's a battle. So: I am going for the siege of Gondor.

Denethor stood alone and then came the prince of Dol Amroth. (to add one to one and get a fine two). Mordor had the armies which had captured Osgiliath and the Nazgul and was waiting for the other two: the Haradrim and the Umbar corsairs. So to Denethor's camp were added the Rohirrim and the Dead. The student could refer to "steward" which sort of rhymes with it.


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## Lhunithiliel

Hmmm.... In one thing you are right, Maya Queen!
But... if I tell you what it is ... then it will be a HUGE hint! 

Ah! Well... it IS a battle! But think again which one!

( _I shall have to speak to my Master about the abilities of my Ring! I've become too good!_  )


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## Manveru

Lhunithiliel said:


> ... Maya Queen!


mmm, reminds me of my queenie... (think I know what you're hinting at, Lhun, but... too mellow to take it away from you, Melian the Maia, you're too close the right answer go, get it!)


Lhunithiliel said:


> ( _I shall have to speak to my Master about the abilities of my Ring! I've become too good!_  )


good _wraith_, have a cookie


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## Melian_the_Maya

A battle:

Let's think - battles in the Lord of the Rings (which are not in the Hobbit and the Silmarillion):

First battle against Sauron - hinted at but not in detail, appears in the Silmarillion as well. It features men and Elves against the forces of Sauron, which are not two and two.... 

Battle at Helm's Deep - no, I don't think so, there aren't four against four.

Battle for Isenguard - no, surely not, because those are only Ents+hobbits against orcs and Saruman. The numbers are not right.

Battle for Osgiliath - no, again the same as above

Siege of Gondor - no, because you said it isn't

Battle before the Morgul gate - umm, I don't think so, because we are supposed to start with one and one against two and two, which is not true, whichever side you look from...

Am I really missing something here?


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## Lhunithiliel

Once again - DON'T MIND THE NUMBERS!
It's the mathematical process...

C'mon!


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## Eledhwen

> Originally Posted by *Lhunithiliel*
> One and one - makes two, I'd say.
> Two and two - a fine four - you'd boast.
> But no worse "student" I am!
> So, I'm adding two more and there - equal we become in score!



Eledhwen 'scrapes the bottom of the barrel' with:-

Sam rescues Frodo in Cirith Ungol (1+1)
They become Orc 'doubles'
they are tracked by two Orcs, one of whom studies the terrain.
2 Orcs against 2 'Orcs' - one of whom gets even with the other.


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## Melian_the_Maya

Okay, let's try again: battle of Helm's Deep.

Rohan (and Theoden) stands alone. To that is added Aragorn (and his two other friends, but they matter less). Against them come the Uruk-Hai and the Orcs (which should be 2+2 cause it is well known that Uruks and Orcs are schizophrenic  ). And then we add Gandalf and Eómer to brew the perfect battle! So.... how did I do?


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## Aulë

Lhunithiliel said:


> Once again - DON'T MIND THE NUMBERS!
> It's the mathematical process...
> 
> C'mon!


Can we have another hint, other than that it's the "mathematical process that counts"? No one seems to be gaining anything from it.
And has the answer been mentioned yet amonst our wild guesses? You have a habit of ignoring guesses if they are mixed with other guesses...


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## Lhunithiliel

Those were Gimli and Legolas counting the enemies they'd killed and trying to get even in score.


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## Melian_the_Maya

Was that the answer to the riddle then? Legolas and Gimli at Helm's Deep?


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## Manveru

Melian_the_Maya said:


> Was that the answer to the riddle then? Legolas and Gimli at Helm's Deep?


guess that's obvious...

is _wraith_ asking another one then?


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## Manveru

hmm... just to get this thread going:

_No Orc am I,
yet I love the night.
In deep shadows my home lie,
'cause I shun the sunlight.
From Dwarves I learned a lot
of metal work and fire breath.
The Noldor gave me naught,
save only...death._

who am I?

BTW: you can rip my head off for posting without permission... just be gentle (can't help it, love riddles too darn much)


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## Ambartur

Eol, the dark elf, father of Maeglin.


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## Melian_the_Maya

You beat me to it, but yes I agree...


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## Aulë

Lhunithiliel said:


> Those were Gimli and Legolas counting the enemies they'd killed and trying to get even in score.


Well that riddle barely relates to that at all... They didn't end up even- Gimli won by one kill.
And what did the "student" part have to do with it?


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## Manveru

guess that:


Lhunithiliel said:


> Once again - DON'T MIND THE NUMBERS!
> It's the mathematical process...


is the answer... it doesn't have to be a description of the whole event... maybe they were even at some point 

Great job, Ambartur... of course it's Eol (easy, right?) You're next! Give us a riddle, make this thread continue...


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## Ambartur

I'm really not that great at making up riddles, to be honest. If I can think up something, then I'll post it, but don't wait for me if somebody else has one.


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## Manveru

Just to get this thread going...

_Dark is my nature,
My strenght goes with dread.
In dirty mountain 'halls'
My minions are being bred.
Although my power is great,
I once had to surrender
in front of my watchtower's gate._

Easy, easy... don't rush!


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## Aulë

Sauron?
(Surrendering to Huan in front of Minas Tirith)


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## Manveru

*clapping his hands*

good you are... and I hoped to (maybe) catch ya on this 

you're up, Aule...


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## Aulë

_I am the maker of Middle Earth,_
_I take delight in rock and boulder,_
_My people formed in my hearth,_
_And I am worshipped by the Noldor._


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## Melian_the_Maya

You are indeed -Aule.


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## Aulë

Yep- you're up


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## Melian_the_Maya

Oki then, here it is - i hope it's not too easy:

_First take the ends of something gleaming
The Noldor found and to wield they learnt,
Then find me what’s farthest from beginning:
When all but Eru will have burned.

And you seek then the heart of she,
Who dwells with Manwe in his halls,
And then maybe you look and see
What Eru made of the chaos that was.

But do not think from start to end:
Start with your fourth, last guess
Go through them all and then my friend,
The name you find shall bring me rest ._


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## Melian_the_Maya

Aw, come on, it's not all that difficult! Just piece them together, the guesses are really easy!


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## Melian_the_Maya

Okay, for any of you who want to try, a hint: the name you will get by answering the riddles belongs to an Elf who played a big part in the Silmarillion.


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## Eledhwen

Is it Feanor?


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## Melian_the_Maya

No, it isn't... but come on, you guys defy the purpose of my little poem. Try to piece the things together, two guesses will already tell you what you want to know.


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## Manveru

Maybe it's too early... or... maybe I'm always so dumb, but...

is it *Earendil*?



> First take the ends of something gleaming


Silmar*il*


> Then find me what's farthest from beginning


*end*

got Ear*endil* out of these lines... am i (even) close? Maya?


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## Melian_the_Maya

_First take the ends of something gleaming
The Noldor found and to wield they learnt,
Then find me what’s farthest from beginning:
When all but Eru will have burned.

And you seek then the heart of she,
Who dwells with Manwe in his halls,
And then maybe you look and see
What Eru made of the chaos that was.

But do not think from start to end:
Start with your fourth, last guess
Go through them all and then my friend,
The name you find shall bring me rest ._

That was the riddle: Now the key was:

Take the ends of something gleaming that the Noldor liked: mithr*il*
The farthest from beginning: *end*
she who lives with Manwe is Varda, the heart of whom is *r*
Eru made of the chaos *Ea* - with the two little dots on the a

Therefore the answer is - and you guessed it right, Manveru - Earendil. You're up!


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## Manveru

_My beauty was of great fame
That's what they said.
Due to 'fangs and flame'
All my bros got dead._


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## Aulë

Galadriel?

(Finrod and Orodreth killed by Werewolves)
(Aegnor and Angrod killed in the Dagor Bragollach)


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## Manveru

It is Lady G. 

BTW: wasn't Orodreth killed in the sack of Nargothrond... when Glaurung (both 'fangs and flame')was having fun?

whatever... you're right and you're up, Aule.


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## Aulë

Whoops- yep, you're right.



The last of my kind,
But I am yet half.
Food I went out to find,
Before I sent the doomed one on his path.


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## Gandalf The Grey

Mîm the Petty Dwarf.


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## Aulë

Correct. Your go.


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## Gandalf The Grey

Thanks Aulë ... will think up a riddle after I get back from church today.


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## Gandalf The Grey

And now, without further ado ... silly or not, here it comes!

My first half inside a round oven is planted
Growing gold without sunlight until scent is granted
My second half with the first, Halflings will take
So "half" it and eat it too, fresh-baked __________ !


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## Eledhwen

Cake!

Bilbo's speciality.


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## Gandalf The Grey

I'll accept your answer since you mention Bilbo, *Eledhwen ...* 

... for indeed it was he who was noted for that particular sort of cake known as "seedcake!" 

Awaiting your riddle,

Gandalf the Grey


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## Eledhwen

This one is a bit easy, so I want the person and the place.

Half height pigsfoot was my early form.
I watched a hilltop battle storm
Where met we foes of terror and death
Who were cowed by the name of Elbereth.


Edit: I shall be away from the internet over the Easter weekend. There's only one character to fit this (If you haven't read HoME, try to get it without the first line).


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## Manveru

hmm... a little clash at weathertop... gandalf "dancing" around black sheets? but who watched it?  
(is it plain enough that i haven't read "history..."? )

c'mon... i'm sure somebody read that somewhere...


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## Ambartur

Wow, I haven't been to this thread in forever...

My guess would be the hobbits, or more specifically Frodo, looking at Gandalf's battle with the Nazgul atop Weathertop, then being attacked themselves on Weathertop.


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## Gothmog

Aragorn aka Strider. (His charater started out as a Hobbit called Trotter)
He watched the fight on Weathertop between Gandalf and the Nazgul from the Midgewater Marshes and later, with the Hobbits, met the Nazgul in the dell below the ruins of Amon Sul.

Is that correct, and enough?


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## Manveru

enough for me to see i'm a little (just 12 volumes of HoMe + some UT; not so far really  ) behind


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## Eledhwen

Half height pigsfoot was my early form.
I watched a hilltop battle storm
Where met we foes of terror and death
Who were cowed by the name of Elbereth.


Gothmog said:


> Aragorn aka Strider. (His charater started out as a Hobbit called Trotter)
> He watched the fight on Weathertop between Gandalf and the Nazgul from the Midgewater Marshes and later, with the Hobbits, met the Nazgul in the dell below the ruins of Amon Sul.
> 
> Is that correct, and enough?


Absolutely correct. Your go.


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## Gothmog

Ok. I'll give it a go.

To reflect on the future
Is my purpose to be
I'll show you much
But what may you see?
As a guide I am dangerous!
Should you listen to me?


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## Manveru

Galadriel's Mirror?


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## Gothmog

Even quicker than I expected. 

Yes. Your go.


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## Manveru

taking into consideration that i'll be offline for nearly whole week (and having nothing in mind to post as a riddle, anyway), i'll give a go to whoever wants it...

first come, first served 

have fun


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## Eledhwen

*what am I?*

They moved him not from where he fell,
And built me up so all could tell.
His name was carved in runes above
The name of her, his greatest love;
Who did not in my bosom lie,
For Taeglin swallowed her, not I.


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## Aulë

Dagnir Glaurunga?
The stone that marked Túrin's death. (And the greatest love being his sister! Yuck!  )


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## Eledhwen

Spot on, Aulë.

Turin was not wrong to love his sister, but not knowing who she was, he misunderstood the nature of his feelings and misapplied that love. Too hot headed by half

Have you got a riddle ready?


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## Aulë

One of the first,
One of the second,
Two of the third,
One from the start,
And four halves.


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## Eledhwen

This looks to me like the Fellowship of the Ring

One of the first(born) - Legolas
One of the second (age, by lineage etc) - Aragorn
Two of the third (age, by birth) - Gimli and Boromir
One from the start - the maia Gandalf
And four halves - the Hobbits

Am I anywhere near?


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## Aulë

Eledhwen said:


> This looks to me like the Fellowship of the Ring
> 
> One of the first(born) - Legolas
> One of the second (age, by lineage etc) - Aragorn
> Two of the third (age, by birth) - Gimli and Boromir
> One from the start - the maia Gandalf
> And four halves - the Hobbits
> 
> Am I anywhere near?


Well you have the right answer. But not _quite_ the right explaination...
Dwarves came before Men  Therefore Gimli is the One of the second.

Your turn.


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## Eledhwen

I would like to throw it open to someone who hasn't joined this thread yet to pose a riddle. I'll wait 24 hours.


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## Manveru

well, according to my watch (whatever the time zone) the 24h is long in the past... c'mon... i'd like to see this rolling...

unfortunately, i'm not "someone new here" (shoot, i could have tried to post, maybe noone would notice that)


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## Eledhwen

Go ahead, Manveru; I wouldn't be able to preprare anything before tomorrow now.


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## Manveru

*okay, just to get this thing rolling...*

i know it's slappy, but:

_I was sent by my 'hidden' master
To bring help in fight with great Foe.
But my errand was a disaster
And in the end...
I met a 'herald of woe'._


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## Eledhwen

Is it Saruman?


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## Manveru

no... too cold... try sth "elvish" instead...


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## Eledhwen

> I was sent by my 'hidden' master
> To bring help in fight with great Foe.
> But my errand was a disaster
> And in the end...
> I met a 'herald of woe'.



Hmm! Beleg Strongbow?


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## Manveru

nay, i'm looking for a servant of another "hidden king"...
(that should do it...)


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## Eledhwen

Glorfindel, killed in fight with Balrog at the sack of Gondolin?

Come on - why am I guessing alone?


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## Manveru

Eledhwen said:


> Glorfindel, killed in fight with Balrog at the sack of Gondolin?
> 
> Come on - why am I guessing alone?


wondering myself... maybe i messed sth again  

no, it's not him... but this is getting warmer... wanna try again, Eledhwen? (since no one's around )


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## Eledhwen

I'll have to go away and think about it. I reckon I've got the right hidden king; I just need to think of someone who hit the treacle in his service.


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## Manveru

c'mon... it's easy... 

starting with *V*_ _ _ _ _ _

_one - only - out of seven
in snow-white foam lost
seeking a road to "heaven"
paid a bitter-sweet(?!) cost..._

a whole series of hints at one sitting... now, your turn (whoever you might be)


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## Ambartur

Voronwe! Yay! I Got it now! He went out to find Valinor, but instead crashed and was gracefully returned to ME. Huzzah!

Once again, I'm afraid I can't post a riddle. While I may be hald-way decent at figuring them out, I can't make them up worth a flip...


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## Eledhwen

Seven there were.
The fourth was last and lost.
Then the last sailed last.


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## Lhunithiliel

The palantiri?


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## Eledhwen

No. Think 'people'.


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## Aulë

The 7 sons of Feanor?


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## Manveru

maybe it will be the wildest (and silliest) guess ever made, but...

...Ringbearers?

i've made a little theory of mine thx to which Gollum was the _fourth_ one (and perished = lost) and Frodo was the _last_ one (_and sailed last_...to Aman), but... i'm not sure there were _seven_ of them [according to my math-knowledge we had: Sauron, Isildur, Deagol - tho short, Smeagol aka Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam - short too - then again Frodo (the same Frodo, yes)]

don't laugh, pls...

*hides*


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## Eledhwen

Manveru said:


> Ringbearers


Give the man a coconut. Correct.

1. Sauron
2. Isildur
3. Deagol
4. Smeagol (and last to bear the ring)
5. Bilbo
6. Frodo
7. Sam (and last of the ringbearers in M-e, who was also the last of them to sail west - see appendix)

Your go!


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## Manveru

now what d'ya know? and i felt (really) silly posting that silly-looking (at first) theory... but i see it was worth trying...

thx, El (tho still haven't got that coconut )

now... next riddle -- gee, my "productivity" ran out for a moment... so... i'll give a go for anyone who has "a card in her/his sleeve" 

(but beware... cause if i visit this place again and there won't be any new riddle, i'll surely have one )

so... anyone?


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## Melian_the_Maya

I know I've been away lately, but does anybody mind my posting a riddle then? It's not all that difficult...

_Our mother gave us birth and we were
Three siblings, at the dawn of our time.
Born with the ninth wave, that swept through
All Men we knew and loved
In the third age of this time.
And I was one of those three siblings,
My name’s forgotten by nigh all
My head lay next to whispering water,
My feet lay on the Eastern Road._

I ask only the name that's forgotten...


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## Manveru

ah, a fresh "dare"... goodie 


Melian_the_Maya said:


> I ask only the name that's forgotten...


gosh, i forgot it


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## Ambartur

This thread better not die. That's be a shame. This is one of the best ones in my opinion.

But I don't know what it is. I've been thinking through all the things in the Third Age, but I haven't thought of anything that fits into all these things.

I'm stupid! *runs away crying*


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## Eledhwen

Hmm! Let's make a wild, uneducated guess then.

It is not necessarily the Third age of the Sun, but I haven't time to research it properly right now, so I'll go for someone who was one of three siblings, but did nothing amazing other than die in battle alongside his father at Eithel Sirion. I'll guess at Gundor, son of Hador, who had no offspring but whose brothers became fathers to Huor>Tuor>Earendil and Hurin.


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## Melian_the_Maya

I am very sorry for not coming here earlier, but I thought everyone had given this up...

No, I am sorry, you're not even close to it. I'll give you a big hint: The riddle is an allegory. It is not about persons.


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## Aulë

Melian_the_Maya said:


> I know I've been away lately, but does anybody mind my posting a riddle then? It's not all that difficult...
> 
> _Our mother gave us birth and we were_
> _Three siblings, at the dawn of our time._
> _Born with the ninth wave, that swept through_
> _All Men we knew and loved_
> _In the third age of this time._
> _And I was one of those three siblings,_
> _My name’s forgotten by nigh all_
> _My head lay next to whispering water,_
> _My feet lay on the Eastern Road._
> 
> I ask only the name that's forgotten...


Possibly the Greyflood?
(One of three major rivers in Arnor, seldom called Gwathló anymore, stretches from the sea to the East-West Road, known by the Men of Arnor in the Third Age)
Although it was Ulmo and Aulë who created it, not a female. And I have no idea about that ninth wave,


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## Melian_the_Maya

You are very close (geographically), but no. The ninth wave is important, since it should give you a big hint.


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## Aulë

Melian_the_Maya said:


> I know I've been away lately, but does anybody mind my posting a riddle then? It's not all that difficult...
> 
> _Our mother gave us birth and we were_
> _Three siblings, at the dawn of our time._
> _Born with the ninth wave, that swept through_
> _All Men we knew and loved_
> _In the third age of this time._
> _And I was one of those three siblings,_
> _My name’s forgotten by nigh all_
> _My head lay next to whispering water,_
> _My feet lay on the Eastern Road._
> 
> I ask only the name that's forgotten...


OK, perhaps the siblings were Rhudaur, Cardolan and Arthedain. With their mother being Arnor, having split up in the Third Age. All three were realms of Men.

And I reckon that the forgotten one being referred to is Cardolan- it's 'head' along the Greyflood, and it's 'feet' at the East-West Road.

I'm still not sure about the 'ninth wave' though. Since it was after the death of the _tenth_ King of Arnor that the Kingdom was split.


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## Melian_the_Maya

Your answer is correct. Arnor was split in the NINTH century of the THIRD age. That's the source of the numbers. Good guess nevertheless. You're up.


----------



## Aulë

_A long forgotten country,_
_Speared by the forces of Ulmo._
_I saw the Great March of the Elves,_
_And the coming of the Atanatari._
_Two Sindarin Lords dwelt within,_
_Their power in the trees._
_Dwarves and Men would come and go,_
_Only to return once more._
_I held the Ring within my grasp,_
_Before it was stolen by the Little Folk._
_The Land of Battles was I,_
_Wheel-tracks scared my fields,_
_And Dragon-fire seared them._
_Never again shall I be called my name again,_
_But the return of the King cleansed me._


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## Maeglin

It doesn't happen to be Mirkwood, does it?


----------



## Aulë

Maeglin said:


> It doesn't happen to be Mirkwood, does it?


Nope. Fairly close though.


----------



## greypilgrim

Lake-Town/Dale


----------



## Aulë

greypilgrim said:


> Lake-Town/Dale


Did two Sindarin Lords live there?
I think not!


----------



## Maeglin

Ereglon/Hollin?


----------



## Aulë

Maeglin said:


> Ereglon/Hollin?


Nope.
That was ruled by one of the Noldor (Celebrimbor)


----------



## Ambartur

Well, it's obviously something that hasn't changed since the beginning of the First Age. It's a land that's long been dead. It's been scorched by a dragon. It was once ruled by two Sindarin lords. It was trafficked by Dwarves and Men. The Ring was inside it at some point. It was a land of some (or many) battle(s). And the return it was cleansed after Aragorn came to the throne...

I don't know, I have to go now...


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## Arvedui

Speared by the forces of Ulmo seem to suggest a river, or multiple rivers.

Seeing the great march of the elves and the comingof the Atanatari suggest something that was between east and west.

Two Sindarin lord with powers in the trees suggest a forest.

What held the Ring within its grasp before the little folk stole it? The River Gladden perhaps.

Where can we find all of this? I try a long shot, and answer *Rhovanion.*


----------



## Aulë

As per usual, the long shot pays off.
Well done Arvedui.

You're go.


----------



## Arvedui

Okay. Normally I am a lot better at solving riddle than making them, but try this one:

_Weak among the evil
Strong among the kind
I can pick the safe way
where others wander blind

The heaviest burden
was mine to bear
And still no word I uttered
No complaint was there to hear

With beasts in the vicinity
they left me on my own
I passed through darkness
And my trail was never shown

And so at last I came 
to where it all began
There I could relax
And forget the evil man

While my friends struggled
I was tended well
Until one day my friend
Came back to me from hell

Together we are for ever
None can keep us apart
Until the time may come
When my friend needs a new start._ 

Which character?


----------



## Aulë

Would it be Ilúvatar?


----------



## Arvedui

Not in this case, it isn't.


----------



## Maeglin

A long shot, it doesn't completely fit the description in the riddle, but is it Smeagol/Gollum? (which seems to easy as well)


----------



## Aulë

How about Tuor?


----------



## Arvedui

None of the above.


----------



## Aulë

Last guess for the night.

How about Beren?


----------



## Arvedui

How about him?
Not this time.


----------



## Maeglin

Turin Turambar?


----------



## Aulë

Frodo Baggins?


----------



## Arvedui

No, no, no.
Let's limit the options somewhat: Third Age, not a main character.


----------



## Aulë

Hmmm, I'll go for another one of those long shots.

Shadowfax?


----------



## Arvedui

Not Shadowfax either, but you are close, sort of....


----------



## Aulë

Bill The Pony!!!!!


----------



## Arvedui

Gore blimey, we have a winner!


----------



## Manveru

grrrr.... you were faster with that shot, Rog!

congrats 

(great riddle, Arv)


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## Aulë

_Nose of a hound_
_Poison for an orc_
_Eyes of a hawk_
_And great knowledge of all growing things_

_Who am I?_




(I didn't make this up myself- found it in a book)


----------



## Manveru

mr. gollum?


----------



## Aulë

Manveru said:


> mr. gollum?


Nope. 
This isn't nessesarily an individual....


----------



## Manveru

hmm... well then...
Elves have sharp eyes, love all growing things and... aren't fond of orcs, but that about their noses... hmm... and closer?


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## Aulë

Manveru said:


> hmm... well then...
> Elves have sharp eyes, love all growing things and... aren't fond of orcs, but that about their noses... hmm... and closer?


No- not Elves.
And going by species- you're getting further away.


----------



## Manveru

Rog said:


> (I didn't make this up myself- found it in a book)


no more shots then... taking the above quote into consideration, i haven't touched T-books for about six months...


----------



## Aulë

Manveru said:


> no more shots then... taking the above quote into consideration, i haven't touched T-books for about six months...


It's not from a Tolkien book. It's from a riddle book.


----------



## Manveru

oh, yeah?! grrr... and it doesn't rhyme   i'm out


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## Eledhwen

Rog said:


> _Nose of a hound_
> _Poison for an orc_
> _Eyes of a hawk_
> _And great knowledge of all growing things_
> 
> _Who am I?_
> 
> QUOTE]Crumbs! Beorn? Though 'Nose of a bear' would be his 1st line.
> 
> 'great knowledge of all growing things' is a stumper. I can't think of anyone who fits that category except perhaps Tom Bombadil, but the other bits don't match.
> 
> Hmmmm. (thinks...)


----------



## Aulë

Eledhwen said:


> Rog said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Nose of a hound_
> _Poison for an orc_
> _Eyes of a hawk_
> _And great knowledge of all growing things_
> 
> _Who am I?_
> 
> 
> 
> Crumbs! Beorn? Though 'Nose of a bear' would be his 1st line.
> 
> 'great knowledge of all growing things' is a stumper. I can't think of anyone who fits that category except perhaps Tom Bombadil, but the other bits don't match.
> 
> Hmmmm. (thinks...)
Click to expand...

Nope, both guesses are wrong.


----------



## Maeglin

Ghan buri Ghan?


----------



## Aulë

Close.

But remember that I'm not looking for an individual....


----------



## BlackCaptain

The River Anduin?


----------



## Maeglin

I don't think the river is a who.
Well, if its not an individual...is it maybe just the wild men of the woods in general?


----------



## Aulë

Yep- Wild Men/Drúedain was what I was looking for.

Your go Maeglin/Glorfy!


----------



## Maeglin

Okay, I'm not very good at this, but here goes:

_My father never would approve
of the things that I had done
I went out, and gazed upon the One

although he didn't care
I went out and fought many battles for him
even though he didn't notice
I did all for him._

Who am I?


----------



## greypilgrim

Faramir of Gondor


----------



## Maeglin

nope. I knew that would be the first guess.


----------



## Aulë

Samwise Gamgee doing it for his Gaffer


----------



## Maeglin

you got it, your turn.


----------



## Aulë

_Walking without legs
Across hundreds of miles,
There and back again,
Sleep at home on the tiles._


----------



## Arvedui

Bilbo's walking stick.


----------



## greypilgrim

I would have never thought of that!


----------



## Arvedui

Should it happen to be right, then someone else must carry on with the next one. I will be gone as of today.


----------



## greypilgrim

I want to try this:

_I never ever budge_ 
_At the end of the road_ 
_Standing firm_
_Tell me the code_ 

*what am I*


----------



## Aulë

The West Gate of Moria?


----------



## greypilgrim

You got it right!


----------



## Aulë

_Change in the daylight
Scary at night,
Legends of old,
Give young hobbits a fright._


----------



## Manveru

master G. talking with Frodo... ("the shadow of the past" lotr)??


----------



## Aulë

Manveru said:


> master G. talking with Frodo... ("the shadow of the past" lotr)??


Nope......


----------



## Tanelorn

It's Mr Bilbo's Trolls!!!!  

-By the way, i'm just guessing that it's right!-
I'm no good at making up riddles (or even finding them), so anyone else who wants to go can...


----------



## Aulë

Tanelorn said:


> It's Mr Bilbo's Trolls!!!!
> 
> -By the way, i'm just guessing that it's right!-
> I'm no good at making up riddles (or even finding them), so anyone else who wants to go can...


Yep- you're right.
But you have to make up your own riddle- that's the rules  If you can't find words to rhyme, then don't worry about it, as long as it resembles a riddle in some distant way.


----------



## Tanelorn

Oh well, here it goes  
It's nice and easy.

They stand upon high,
Carven from stone,
Looking down on the water,
Guarding the lands.


----------



## Manveru

the same trolls (bill and the rest) turned to stone? (sounds too easy... to me, but oh, well...)


----------



## Tanelorn

i'm afraid your wrong, and i would have been stupid to put that answer again. *"damn, why didn't i think of that answer!" he says in the background*

oh well, nice try


----------



## Ambartur

The Argonath. That was pretty easy.

I'm leaving, so someone else will have to make one up. I'm no good anyway.


----------



## Manveru

*feels stupid* 

okay, since our winner doesn't wanna go next, may i? (i was close last time, wasn't i? )

here you go, crack this:

_crouching shadows, bushy eyes,
unaimed arrow - unnamed dies.
closer looks erase disguise,
biting creature spares man wise._


----------



## Tanelorn

does it have anything to do with the hobbit?
or am i way out!


----------



## greypilgrim

Attercrops!


----------



## Manveru

nothing to do with "the hobbit"...

and... what do you mean, greypilgrim? (never heard of that one  )

guess you have to guess again, guys


----------



## greypilgrim

Spiders in the Hobbit!  

Is it from the Sil?


----------



## Manveru

*nods* yes, it is  (and thx, haven't touched the books for ages)


----------



## greypilgrim

Turin Tarambaur/Beleg Strongbow.


----------



## Manveru

half-way there, friend 

turin is correct, but i'm looking for another meeting of his...


----------



## greypilgrim

The Dragon!


----------



## Manveru

nope... did he, turin (as "man wise" in this riddle), spare the dragon? try again...


----------



## greypilgrim

Haven't read the sil in a while...just a shot it the dark...

Carcaroth?


----------



## Manveru

nope... since you haven't read it lately... a hint: "petty" meeting


----------



## greypilgrim

You are too kind. That dwarf up on Amon Sul, what was his name...Nom?

try this one:
_Wreathed in smoke_ 
_I'm floating in the air_
_Up the chimney too_ 
_You can see right through me_ 

*what am I*


----------



## Manveru

Nom? c'mon, greypilgrim you meant Mim, right? okay, since you provided a new riddle... well... let it be 

btw, have no idea what you're looking for? anyone?


----------



## Eledhwen

greypilgrim said:


> You are too kind. That dwarf up on Amon Sul, what was his name...Nom?
> 
> try this one:
> _Wreathed in smoke_
> _I'm floating in the air_
> _Up the chimney too_
> _You can see right through me_
> 
> *what am I*



one of Gandalf's smoke rings?


----------



## Manveru

sounds good to me...

btw, it's good to see you back around here, El


----------



## greypilgrim

One of Gandalf's smoke rings yes!


----------



## Eledhwen

Manveru said:


> sounds good to me...
> 
> btw, it's good to see you back around here, El


Thanks. I'll be around more when I've had my computer cleaned up; I am plagued by a pop-up every thirty seconds or so, and I can't find the program that's calling them up, so it's a reformat job. Here's an easy one:-

Near to dawn, on the eve of spring
A song, as the song of the lark did she sing.
Winter's bonds were released as she sang.
The frozen waters spoke. The flowers sprang.

Who is she, and what was the occasion?


----------



## Eledhwen

Eledhwen said:


> Near to dawn, on the eve of spring
> A song, as the song of the lark did she sing.
> Winter's bonds were released as she sang.
> The frozen waters spoke. The flowers sprang.
> 
> 
> Nóm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luthien, when after Beren had watched her from far for some time she sang at the beginning of Spring. Then Beren was released from the spell of silence.
Click to expand...


Spot on Nóm. Your riddle...


----------



## Manveru

aragorn at weathertop?


----------



## spirit

Just a guess: Manwe?


----------



## spirit

A king.... hmmm
Does it involve Aragorn?


----------



## greypilgrim

Minas Tirith/The White Tower?


----------



## Eledhwen

Taniquetil/Oiolossë/Amon Uilos, where Manwë and Varda dwellt?

"Finwe was king in Tirion and Olwë in Alqualondë; but Inwe was ever held the High King of all the Elves. He abode thereafter at the feet of Manwë upon Taniquetil." (Sil. near end of Chapter 5).


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Eledhwen said:


> It isn't my turn, but it has been a while...
> 
> Tall and green
> And seldom seen
> My name is the same
> As the place I have been
> A dwindling realm
> Of oak, ash and elm
> Till roused up to fight
> With long-hidden might



That's Treebeard, methinks!

Here's one:

Hidden power
’Twixt tower and tower
Hidden sight
In deepest night
Perilous danger
For use by stranger

Barley


----------



## greypilgrim

A Palantir?


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

greypilgrim said:


> A Palantir?



Right!

How about this one:

Out of sight
Minutes after
Round and white
Cause for laughter

Barley


----------



## Eledhwen

that'll be whatsisname, flour dumpling the mayor, after the cave-in at Michael Delving.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Eledhwen said:


> that'll be whatsisname, flour dumpling the mayor, after the cave-in at Michael Delving.



You rascal you, that's right (Will Whitfoot)! But the price of answering a riddle is to contribute another, or so I understand. We await thy riddle, O Eledhwen!

Barley


----------



## Eledhwen

Shucks! I thought I'd got away with it.

Let me see now...

He sang a song upon the shore
Of a place he'd never been before.
Eldest of his kind was he
Who had to sail across the sea;
But not alone! Another came
Whose need to journey was the same.
The moorings slipped, the ship sailed West
To where our hero found his rest.

***

Who sang the song?


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Eledhwen said:


> Shucks! I thought I'd got away with it.
> 
> Let me see now...
> 
> He sang a song upon the shore
> Of a place he'd never been before.
> Eldest of his kind was he
> Who had to sail across the sea;
> But not alone! Another came
> Whose need to journey was the same.
> The moorings slipped, the ship sailed West
> To where our hero found his rest.
> 
> ***
> 
> Who sang the song?



Bilbo and Frodo. I almost said Legolas and Gimli, but nothing was ever said about Legolas being eldest of his kind. 

Here's my riddle, an easy one!

“Tweedledum and Tweedledee”
Stabled horses right in Bree

Barley


----------



## Eledhwen

Well done, Barley; obviously a Tolkienologist who has read "Bilbo's Last Song (at the Grey Havens)"

I look forward to the next riddle.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Eledhwen said:


> Well done, Barley; obviously a Tolkienologist who has read "Bilbo's Last Song (at the Grey Havens)"
> 
> I look forward to the next riddle.



Trying to distract me with compliments, eh? The next riddle's right there, take another look at my post #214!

Barley


----------



## Eledhwen

Barliman Butterbur said:


> “Tweedledum and Tweedledee”
> Stabled horses right in Bree
> 
> Barley


Tut! How did I miss that?

Is it Bob and Nob?


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Eledhwen said:


> Tut! How did I miss that?
> 
> Is it Bob and Nob?



Right! Here's your next riddle:

Here is a giant compared to the rest
Made war with the goblins and came out the best
Beheaded his enemy all without blame
Winning a battle, inventing a game

Barley


----------



## Astaldo

I think his name is Bandoras "Bullroarer" Took.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Astaldo said:


> I think his name is Bandoras "Bullroarer" Took.



It's "Bandobras," but that's right! But now you owe us a riddle!

(And Eledhwen: You owe us a riddle as well!)

Barley


----------



## Astaldo

Barliman Butterbur said:


> It's "Bandobras," but that's right! But now you owe us a riddle!
> 
> Barley


Sorry the "b" must have slipped. I know the name is "Bandobras".
I'll be back with a new riddle very soon.


----------



## Astaldo

I found one:

_He stands upon the hill,_
_stranded by the bad weaver._
_The only thing that can save him,_
_is the flames that he created._


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Astaldo said:


> I found one:
> 
> _He stands upon the hill,_
> _stranded by the bad weaver._
> _The only thing that can save him,_
> _is the flames that he created._



You actually found this one, or you made it up?

Barley


----------



## Astaldo

I made it up. Do we have to find the riddles? If yes then I am really sorry.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur

Astaldo said:


> I made it up. Do we have to find the riddles? If yes then I am really sorry.



No, make them up, that's fine! I must say, this one really has me going!    

Barley


----------



## Astaldo

I will give you a hint. The riddle refers to the bads' side.


----------



## greypilgrim

I'm stumped, but here's a guess: Melkor after his foray with Ungoliant?


----------



## Astaldo

Great move GP. You are correct. Now give us your riddle


----------



## greypilgrim

I have to think of one first, someone else may go.


----------



## Eledhwen

*Someone else have a go?*

You don't get out of it that easily, GP; we'll wait awhile.


----------

