# The curse of Feanor.



## elffriend (Apr 13, 2003)

While reading the sil, i noticed that when he had been mortally wounded by the Belrogs of Morgoth, and his sons carried him away, as he was dying he cursed Morgoth thrice. So i was wondering if, it was possible that his words contributed to, Sauron being allowed to return three times, to middle earth. I know sauron was originally a Maire, like Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the blue wizards, and he was corrupted by Melkor. 
i just wondered if anyone else has any thoughts on this.


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## Lhunithiliel (Apr 14, 2003)

Hi, dear elffriend!
Thank you for opening a thread in our Guild! 
But... I'm a bit confused... 
I somehow fail to understand what your point is...

Could you perhaps paraphrase?

I have always been very much interested in the fate of Feanor, so, I'd like to keep an eye on this thread.


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## Eledhwen (Apr 14, 2003)

In Tolkien's stories, curses, oaths and blessings all had power. Gollum was conditionally cursed by Faramir and Frodo. He met the conditions and perished accordingly. The blasphemous oath of the sons of Feanor were their undoing, and Gandalf's blessing on Barliman Butterbur's ale was efficacious. It stands to reason, then, that the curse on Morgoth had an effect. The question is, was it the effect stated by elffriend? A curse is laid on the person against whom it is spoken, not his lieutenant. I think Feanor probably cursed Morgoth three times because he took the three Silmarils (he actually cursed the name of Morgoth, which may make a difference, though I don't know what). also, how much weight does the curse of an Elf have against a spirit of the Valar, and a mighty one at that? Also, Sauron did not return three times as the first time was not a return; though he did 'materialize' three times. However, I fail to see how this could be the fulfilling of a curse against Morgoth.


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## elffriend (Apr 14, 2003)

I will try and explain more clearly what i am trying to say.
As curses and oaths in middle earth were powerful, and were held to be something that were not to be broken. did Feanor inadvertantly allow the darkness and evil of Morgoth to return to middle earth, via Sauron. I believe that Iluvater would have known of Feanor's last words, and as Feanor did not make an end to his curse and release his sons from it, then the curse was still to be honoured.


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## Eledhwen (Apr 15, 2003)

I think the only way that Morgoth allowed the darkness and evil to return via Sauron was through Sauron's apprenticeship to him, where he could not become anything other than evil himself, and according to one of Tolkien's letters, declared himself to be Morgoth returned. I can, however, find no explanatory reference to Feanor's threefold curse of Morgoth's name, so we're down to guesses. The Silmarillion was, of course, an unfinished work, so maybe there would have been more explanation if time had allowed. 

One interesting point, though, Sauron would not allow his name to be uttered by his thralls or followers, and this may have been as a ward against curses against it, which indicates that the curses against Morgoth had an effect Sauron was aware of.

If the Feanorean curses were the reason for Sauron's return, then they must also have been the reason why Isildur was unable to destroy the Ring - an act that would have denied the third's fulfilment. Hypothesis, but interesting.

Another (off the) point (am I boring you?) - Saruman too was a Maia whose flesh-clothing was destroyed, and whose spirit was blown away towards the East. Could he not also re-embody after a time? Sauron failed at the last only because he had invested himself in his Ring, thus losing the large part of his 'being' in its destruction. Saruman was, though corrupt, spiritually intact.


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 24, 2004)

I can't see much of a connection between the curse of Feanor and Sauron, though what Eledhwen hints at is highly interesting.



Eledhwen said:


> Another (off the) point (am I boring you?) - Saruman too was a Maia whose flesh-clothing was destroyed, and whose spirit was blown away towards the East. Could he not also re-embody after a time? Sauron failed at the last only because he had invested himself in his Ring, thus losing the large part of his 'being' in its destruction. Saruman was, though corrupt, spiritually intact.


Saruman too has dissipated his strength into the command of his many servants, AND he also had created a ring for himself, though we don't know how much of his own native strength he poured into it, if any - though I suspect he did. Therefore, all this has to be considered when contemplating whether Saruman could 'clothe' himself again or not. I'm leaning more towards 'not'.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 24, 2004)

I don't think there was any connection. Fëanor cursed Morgoth not Sauron, I doubt whether he even knew who Sauron was and so doubt if if his curse hurt Sauron or effected him at all, even indirectly. 

I think any such comparisons can be labelled as being coincidental 



> One interesting point, though, Sauron would not allow his name to be uttered by his thralls or followers, and this may have been as a ward against curses against it, which indicates that the curses against Morgoth had an effect Sauron was aware of.



He did that more to insitgate the opinion that he was 'Morgoth returned' amongst his subjects.



> Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world





> Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world



'Letter 183' Letters of Tolkien

Some of Sauron's more 'senior' subjects used his "real" name. (i.e. the messenger that was dispatched to Dáin, the Mouth of Sauron, The Nazgûl)

Sauron had become quite complacement in regards to the threat posed by Manwe and co. and even his former master Melkor.



> Sauron had not served Morgoth, even in his last stages, without becoming infected by his lust for destruction, and his hatred of God (which must end in nihilism). Sauron could not, of course, be a 'sincere' atheist. Though one of the minor spirits created before the world, he knew Eru, according to his measure. He probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Eä, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more. It would appear that he interpreted the 'change of the world' at the Downfall of Númenor, when Aman was removed from the physical world, in this sense: Valar (and Elves) were removed from effective control, and Men under God's curse and wrath. If he thought about the Istari, especially Saruman and Gandalf, he imagined them as emissaries from the Valar, seeking to establish their lost power again and 'colonize' Middle-earth, as a mere effort of defeated imperialists (without knowledge or sanction of Eru). His cynicism, which (sincerely) regarded the motives of Manwë as precisely the same as his own, seemed fully justified in Saruman. Gandalf he did not understand. But certainly he had already become evil, and therefore stupid, enough to imagine that his different behaviour was due simply to weaker intelligence and lack of firm masterful purpose. He was only a rather cleverer Radagast - cleverer, because it is more profitable (more productive of power) to become absorbed in the study of people than of animals."


 'Myths Transformed; HoME 10'


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