# Open Discussion#1---The folly of Thingol?



## Beleg (Sep 9, 2003)

> From Doriath came little help. For Maedhros and his brothers, being constrained by their oath, had before sent to Thingol and reminded him with haughty words of their claim, summoning him to yield the Silmaril, or become their enemy. *Melian counselled him to surrender it; but the words of the sons of Fëanor were proud and threatening, and Thingol was filled with anger, thinking of the anguish of Lúthien and the blood of Beren whereby the jewel had been won, despite the malice of Celegorm and Curufin. And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril the more he desired to keep it for ever; for such was its power.*



*Of the Fifth Battle; Nirnaeth Arnediod, Quenta Silmarillion.[77]*

Given the cirumstances, including Melian's advice and Fëanor's sons threats, do you think Thingol should have surrendered the Silmaril's to Meadhros and co?


----------



## Bucky (Sep 9, 2003)

1. I think it was the nature of the Silmarils to inspire greed on the part of the posessor. Not a 'fault' in the jewels, but the intoxicating effects of the jewels on imperfect individuals who were usually proud.

2. Thingol was indeed a rather proud individual. "I am the Lord of Beleriand", the buisness with the Dwarves that cost him his life, etc......
I could see him thinking or saying, "I am Elu Thingol, Lord of all Beleriand, who's life began in Ages uncounted... blah, blah, blah.... who alone posesses a Silmaril...blah, blah, blah...."


----------



## Confusticated (Sep 17, 2003)

Who in Middle-earth should _not_ listen to the counsel of Melian the Maia.

Giving up the Silmaril seems to me that better thing Thingol could have done. Who can say what would have come of it if he did.


----------



## Ithrynluin (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg _
> *Given the cirumstances, including Melian's advice and Fëanor's sons threats, do you think Thingol should have surrendered the Silmaril's to Meadhros and co? *



Of course he should have surrendered it. All the consequences point to that conclusion. 

But should Thingol be called foolish because of it? No way. This sentence says it all for me: 



> and Thingol was filled with anger, thinking of the anguish of Lúthien and the blood of Beren whereby the jewel had been won



Giving up something that cost your beloved daughter and her husband their lives would indeed be unfair and something not to be done easily. The Silmarils were bound with the fate of Beren and Luthien. Luthien chose to become mortal because of Beren and indirectly because of the Silmaril. Thingol's reaction is perfectly understandable under these circumstances - he is not infallible, and noone is, except Eru.


----------



## Arvedui (Nov 13, 2005)

I don't see why Thingol should have surrendered the Silmarils!

What had the sons of Fëanor ever done to Thingol to give their claim some legitimacy?


----------



## Ingwë (Nov 26, 2005)

> What had the sons of Fëanor ever done to Thingol to give their claim some legitimacy?


Maybe... They came back to Middle earth when Morgoth attacked Beleriand. I don't think that Thingol was powerful enough to destroy the armies of the Dark lord. 
Thingol was proud. He was born at Cuivienen, he was leader of the Teleri and King of Doriath. He didn't like the sons of Fëanor. 
However, why should Thingol give the Light of Valinor to the Sons of Fëanor, the guys who had left the Blessed Realm? I think that the Power of the Jewel hold Thingol. He was in Valinor as a leader of the Teleri; he saw the Light. Now that Light is lost. However, he has part of it in his hand. Would you give the Light to somebody who escaped from it?


----------



## Haldatyaro (Dec 6, 2005)

Thingol's folly -- and perhaps the root cause of his lust for a Silmaril -- was that he ordered Beren to recover something that wasn't his to begin with. But really it was a test for Beren and I believe Thingol was calcuating that 1) Beren will fail, thus removing a troublesome Man from taking his daughter or 2) Beren will succeed and the King will be in possession of a Holy Jewel.

I believe Thingol had no right to covet a Silmaril in the first place -- he was already showing a character flaw that would doom him later on.


----------

