# Failing to come home?



## Ithrynluin (Dec 11, 2003)

> _The Silmarillion: Of Beren and Luthien_
> But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor; and he took his foe by throat and pinned him down. Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form; but he could not elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body utterly. Ere his foul spirit left its dark house, Lúthien came to him, and said that he should be stripped of his raiment of flesh, and his ghost be sent quaking back to Morgoth; and she said: 'There everlastingly thy naked self shall endure the torment of his scorn, pierced by his eyes, unless thou yield to me the mastery of thy tower.'
> *Then Sauron yielded himself*, and Lúthien took the mastery of the isle and all that was there; and Huan released him. And immediately he took the form of a vampire, great as a dark cloud across the moon, and he fled, dripping blood from his throat upon the trees, *and came to Taur-nu-Fuin, and dwelt there*, filling it with horror.



Why did Sauron go to Taur-nu-Fuin, instead of returning 'home' to Angband?

Thoughts and ideas?


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 11, 2003)

I think it was because he was ashamed of being defeated. To turn back to Angband with his tail between his legs would not only make Morgoth furious, but it would lessen his stature as his lieutenant. 

So he fled for a while, and did what he did best, corrupted his surroundings!


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 11, 2003)

Indeed.
He was defeated and that was a great shame for him.He considered himself to be Morgoth's right hand and even Tolkien says about him that he was the second most evil after Morgoth(The Silmarillion:Of the enemies-I don't have the book in the moment I will provide the quote later.
So,for him,the second mightest evil creature after Melkor was a real shame to go to Angband after such a defeat.It wouldn't have been such a problem to go back if a Vala had defeated him,but he was defeated by Huan.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 11, 2003)

Sauron was defeated by the combined effort of Huan the Hound of Valinor (and it is highly likely that he is a Maia! See _HoME X: Morgoth's Ring; Myths Transformed_) and Lúthien Tinuviel, half Maia half Elf. That is _quite_ a force to be reckoned with, and losing to these two shouldn't exactly come as such a big shock to Melkor, or so I think.

But Sauron achieved so much prior to this - Melkor had entrusted him with destroying Barahir and his companions. Sauron was extremely successful in this respect. He also brought about the death of Finrod Felagund - no small feat, and a tremendous loss for the forces of good. Wouldn't Morgoth be satisfied about this at least? Would he have reprimanded Sauron for his one failure despite his success elsewhere? 

And if Sauron had returned to Angband he could have provided Morgoth with a detailed account of everything he had witnessed. Perhaps Morgoth would have been better prepared for the arrival of Beren and Lúthien? Perhaps he might have even foreseen or espied their coming?


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 11, 2003)

Perhaps he would have been prepared for them,but he had not been.Sauron did not go back to Angband.
Although Huan was probably a Maia and Luthien was half-a-maia,I believe that Sauron considered himself greater and more powerful than them.That is why he was probably ashamed,because he could not accept a defeat from somebody he considered lesser than him.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 15, 2003)

But do you think Sauron had reason to believe that Morgoth would punish him?

Also: Why didn't Morgoth send out a search party when Sauron, Morgoth's greatest servant, failed to return?


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 15, 2003)

I'm sure Morgoth would have figured it out in time- considering there was not much time between the rescue of Beren and the infiltration of the dark fortress. He would have put two and two together, gathering the news of how Luthien and Beren got to Angband (the two Maia-forms) and where they came from (Sauron's fortress). I also think Morgoth would have known anyways, being the Dark Lord of Arda and all that. He was probably so preoccupied with the loss of the Silmaril and the constant threat of the Valar that he had no need to search for Sauron, probably letting sleeping dogs lie.


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## Confusticated (Dec 16, 2003)

That was a strategic location for the Noldor. Dorthonion was territory won from them, and if they had decided to renew their seige they would have to have come there again.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 16, 2003)

A possibility I haven't considered yet is that Sauron was perhaps so powerless after being defeated that he had barely enough strength to make it to Dorthonion and recuperate there slowly. Still, there were quite a few years until Angband was assailed by the Valar, and Sauron doesn't appear to have returned. Was the only reason for this shame of being defeated, or did he have an agenda of his own? Perhaps he had 'foreseen' that if he had returned to Angband and participated in the War of Wrath, he too would have been either annihilated or captured and ferried off to Aman to be judged by Manwë?


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## Úlairi (Dec 21, 2003)

I agree with the whole 'Sauron thing', he deserved reward. And even the capture of Felagund was, as was said, a feat. We know that the Elves were capable of the overthrow of Maia anyway! Echtelion himself slew Gothmog, Chief Valaraukar! I think we should all give Sauron a round of applause!


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## Confusticated (Dec 21, 2003)

But, Ulairi, Sauron was a significantly more powerful Maia than were the balrogs. My own belief is that no one short of Luthien except probably Melian could have defeated Sauron when he was not bound to physical form. But of course the defeat of Finrod was a worthy deed, not only a mighty Noldo on the royal line but also the king of a huge realm.

Remember Beren had a price on his head that was no less than the Noldor kings had, so letting him and the daughter of Thingol slip by was perhaps a no-no that even Finrod's death could not out-weigh.


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## Úlairi (Dec 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nóm _
> *But, Ulairi, Sauron was a significantly more powerful Maia than were the balrogs. My own belief is that no one short of Luthien except probably Melian could have defeated Sauron when he was not bound to physical form. But of course the defeat of Finrod was a worthy deed, not only a mighty Noldo on the royal line but also the king of a huge realm.
> 
> Remember Beren had a price on his head that was no less than the Noldor kings had, so letting him and the daughter of Thingol slip by was perhaps a no-no that even Finrod's death could not out-weigh. *



But of course, I was merely getting my Sauron self-esteem building party underway, but you spoiled it!  

Of course, when I first read _The Silmarillion_, and Sauron got defeated by Huan, I was very annoyed. I have a big soft sport for the bad guys. I also found when Beren and Lúthien took the Silmaril from the Crown of Morgoth to be absolutely absurd. Another absurdity was when Fëanor shut his door in the face of Melkor. Anyways, Sauron's defeat of Felagund was certainly an achievement, I still get frustrated when he gets defeated by Huan. Was Huan Maia though? Presumably, but greater than that of Sauron? I believe Tolkien even mentions that Sauron possessed greater power in sorcery than even his master! As for Melian being greater than Sauron, I doubt it highly. Did he break her girdle? I need to find that chapter again, desperately!


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## Lantarion (Dec 22, 2003)

Huan was a Maia, yes, and I presume that he was one of the most powerful to ever take corporeal form; that is the norion I get from the passages in the Sil concerning him.

But those 'absurdities' can be accounted for; the First Age was an era of legendary deeds and even more legendary people, who were capable of far more than their seeming equivalents in the Third Age.
But one absurdity I have neve really gotten over is that Melkor simply sat in his fortress and commanded everything from there. He was possibly the most powerful of all the Valar and Valier; why didn't he employ the secret 'magical' crafts of the Valar and simply utterly destroy all the Eldar? 
This is similar to my dislike of Neo's weak powers in the _Matrix_-trilogy; but let's not go there here.


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## Inderjit S (Dec 22, 2003)

> was very annoyed. I have a big soft sport for the bad guys.



Having a soft-spot for Sauron is one thing (he was cute, in a evil, psycho, with a tendency for pre-meditated genocide way) but Morgoth is different. He was a idiot. Killing Finwë Ñoldoran, messing with the Noldor, not washing behind his ears-has the man (Man/Vala/Incompetent buffoon) got a death wish? He also messed up Húrin’s life (not good) and Túrin’s (amused me no end) though dear Finduilas did kind of get caught up (read speared to a tree) in that little escapade of Morgoth. 

Besides, Morgoth was in danger when he was in Aman since he was banished from Aman, and Tulkas was looking for him, and Tulkas did have a fetish for naked "manly" Roman-Greco wrestling, and...well you get the picture. Fëanor did see through Morgoth's disguise though, unlike Mr. Súlimo. It is a shame nobody saw what a pervert Tulkas was though.


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## Úlairi (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Inderjit S _
> *Having a soft-spot for Sauron is one thing (he was cute, in a evil, psycho, with a tendency for pre-meditated genocide way) but Morgoth is different. He was a idiot. Killing Finwë Ñoldoran, messing with the Noldor, not washing behind his ears-has the man (Man/Vala/Incompetent buffoon) got a death wish? He also messed up Húrin’s life (not good) and Túrin’s (amused me no end) though dear Finduilas did kind of get caught up (read speared to a tree) in that little escapade of Morgoth.
> 
> Besides, Morgoth was in danger when he was in Aman since he was banished from Aman, and Tulkas was looking for him, and Tulkas did have a fetish for naked "manly" Roman-Greco wrestling, and...well you get the picture. Fëanor did see through Morgoth's disguise though, unlike Mr. Súlimo. It is a shame nobody saw what a pervert Tulkas was though. *



LMAO! Love the thing on Sauron and Tulkas there. Anyways, could someone direct me to the chapter when Sauron tries to break the Girdle of Melian? Can't be *cough* bothered *cough* I mean, I can't find it!


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 23, 2003)

No he never did break her girdle, nor did he have a chance to. Melian left ME after all...


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 23, 2003)

I would say Melian's powers of enchantment were greater than Sauron's, and Sauron's powers of sorcery were greater than Melian's. So I'm not too sure Sauron had the power to overcome the Girdle, even if he tried to, and I don't think think Melian could counter some of Sauron's spells and deceits. There.


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