# Of Reading Ut and HoME



## maarten (Dec 27, 2001)

*UT and on*

I'm planning on reading some of the ME-story books like unfinished tales, do they read like the silmarrilion or more like LORT? 
I liked the silmarillion better actually because of the grandeur of the events told. LOTR seemed more like just another story after i read the silmarilion...
And with what book should i begin, or is there no order in them?


----------



## aragil (Dec 27, 2001)

UT and HOME read more like the Silmarillion, with Christopher Tolkien explanations every chapter describing different versions of the drafts and relating whatever personal feelings his father had shared on these matters. Just a warning, Tolkien's writing style was not yet as refined as it was in later publications. Also CT has presents them pretty much as is, so they don't have the benefit of any editing.


----------



## Tulkas (Feb 9, 2002)

*HoME*

Ok, a couple of weeks ago I started reading The Book of Lost Tales and I eventually had to stop because I was so confused by all the name changes, such as Vanyar to Teleri and Teleri to Solosimpi. I am now reading the Unfinished Tales and find that easier to read. Could you guys help me out with what HoME books would be worth my reading, or are all HoME books like that?

I plan to read books like The Lost Tales after I have read more Tolkien and have more knowledge of Middle-Earth. The different versions of a story confuse me.

Please help.


----------



## Ståle (Feb 10, 2002)

Vanyar, Teleri(and Noldor) actually refer to the three different "tribes" of Elves(also known as Light-Elves, Deep-Elves and Sea-Elves respectively).


----------



## Tulkas (Feb 12, 2002)

Come on guys. All I need to know is is it ok to read things from HoME out of order? I have many of the books and I see some things that look cool, but I have to read through something boring to get to it.

BTW, it isn't neccesarily boring, just beyond my Middle-Earth knowledge and is hard to read.


----------



## Walter (Feb 15, 2002)

Tulkas,

I have got the better part of the HoME about a month ago and whenever I find a topic of interest in the LoTR, I am reading through the appropriate chapter(s) of the HoME. 

So, I am reading things "out of order" and I have not noticed any effects on myself that would counterindicate this method


----------



## Telchar (Feb 17, 2002)

I'm always reading HoME "out of order", I seldom read the HoME books from the beginning to the end, only did it once I think, and now I rearly finish one book before i'm reading some chapters in another. So I agree with Walter, it dosn't matter if you follow read it in the right order or not, as long as you get through it.


----------



## Andquellewen (Feb 21, 2002)

What are all the HoME books??? Titles I mean..


----------



## bullitt (Feb 22, 2002)

History of Middle-Earth - 

Volume I : The Book of Lost Tales : Part One
Volume II : The Book of Lost Tales : Part Two
Volume III : The Lays of Beleriand
Volume IV : The Shaping of Middle-Earth
Volume V : The Lost Road and Other Writings
Volume VI : The Return of the Shadow : History of LoTR : Part I
Volume VII : Treason of Isengard : History of LoTR : Part II
Volume VIII: The War of the Ring : History of LoTR : Part III
Volume IX : Sauron Defeated : The End of the Third Age : HoLoTR : IV
Volume X : Morgoth's Ring
Volume XI : The War of the Jewel
Volume XII : The People's of Middle-Earth

I hope I haven't completely confused you.


Bullitt


----------



## Andquellewen (Feb 23, 2002)

THANK YOU!!!!  
I can start reading them in order now


----------



## Camille (Feb 25, 2002)

I need help guys, and since you are talking about HOME..., I went to a library last week looking for some tolkien books and I found some of the HOME books, I already have the book of lost tales ,and I read it before the sil, and it was ok to read the sil and found everything in order!! in the Book of lost tales some times you only have pieces of information.
I would like to know if all this collection of books (HOME) have something new, I mean they are based on the stories of the sil and the LOTR anthe Hobbit and just are differnt versions of them, or there are new stories like how Eorl the young made the Rohan city, or more about the dwarves, I would like to know before buying them
greetings


----------



## Snaga (Feb 28, 2002)

I have

Volume VII : Treason of Isengard : History of LoTR : Part II 
Volume VIII: The War of the Ring : History of LoTR : Part III 
Volume IX : Sauron Defeated : The End of the Third Age : HoLoTR : IV 

I bought them in a bookshop, the moment I clapped eyes on them. I wish I had VI, because occasionally I notice that there are things referred to that I don't know about but mostly each volume stands on its own quite well.

I've also got BoLT1, and can't really get used to it! I think for most of us the LotR ones will be an easier read if for no other reason than our familiarity with the final story.


----------



## Tinder (Feb 28, 2002)

I've read the first ten volumes of HoME, but not the last two... so I'm sure there are some large holes in my HoMe lore. I don't think its nessecary to read them in order, when ever I read something from HoME it's usually an isolated chapter here and there. I loved 'The Book of Lost Tales' I think I go back and read the stories there more than any other of The HoME books - especially 'The Fall of Gondolin' and 'The Tale of Tinuviel'. 'The Lays of Beleriand' too, I love the section where Fingolfin and Melkor duel...


----------



## greypilgrim (Mar 1, 2002)

*The Lost Road*

I have heard that Ronald (J.R.R.) wrote a story set in the 4th age about a man finding a lost road somewhere in England and it leads to Middle-earth. Can anyone confirm this and if possible, tell me if it is worth looking into and purchasing?


----------



## Lillyaundra (Mar 3, 2002)

There is a book that fits that description but I don't know if it is Based in the fourth age or not. It is called The Lost Road and Other Writings by J.R.R. Tolkien.


----------



## Flame of Anor (Jul 15, 2002)

*of HoME*

I would like to what the HoME is like and if it is worth reading, is it repeating a lot of things that I have already read, or does it contain a bunch of stuff that you cannot find anywhere else?

-Flame


----------



## Rúmil (Jul 15, 2002)

Home is sort of like the Sil, constructed from old manuscripts, but MUCH more untidy than the Sil. It repeats a lot from the other published books, but if you are a true Tolkien fan it's definitely worth reading. I would suggest starting with vol. 12 and last, the People of ME, which has a lot of constructed, "finished" narrative; plus; a lot of new information. vol 10 and 11, also, are intersing, and they contain the latest version of the Sil. Vols 6 to 9 contain the drafts of Lotr: basically everything that was rejected from the final novel. This is not easy reading, mostly consists of scattered jottings. However, vol 9 also contains an unfinished novel The Notion Club Papers, not in the style of Lotr or the Sil at all, but about 20th century persons; is is supposed to have connect in the end to the myth of Númenor but never got there (only hints). Vols 4 and 5 contain earlier versions of the texts grouped into the published Sil. Vol 5 contains three chapters of an unfinished novel, The Lost road, again about 20th century people who sort of travel back through time to Númenor. Vol 3 contains two long poems, one about Túrin, one about Bren and Lúthien. Sort of like Beowulf in form. Vol 1 and 2 contain very early versions of the Fall of Gondolin, Túrin, and others.

Hope this answers.


----------



## Flame of Anor (Jul 15, 2002)

Wow, thanks. I think that I will try to get my hands on it. Another question, what are the letters of JRRT like or are they included in the HoME?

-Flame


----------



## Ithrynluin (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Flame_of_Anor _
> *Wow, thanks. I think that I will try to get my hands on it. Another question, what are the letters of JRRT like or are they included in the HoME?
> 
> -Flame *



As far as i know,the letters are a separate work and are not mingled with the HOME series.
I've only taken a brief glimpse at them once - I had to return them in an hour or so,but even in that short time I literally consumed them 
I think the letters are a must for any Tolkien fan and I'll be getting my own copy very soon.


----------



## Flame of Anor (Jul 15, 2002)

Thank you. You have been a wonderful help.

-Flame


----------



## Duguay (Dec 30, 2002)

*A question about the HoME series*

Can anyone tell me if there is a topic forum that discusses the significance of each book in the History of Middle Earth series? Also, another question that is not quite related. I have Unfinished Tales, and I've only read snippets of it. But the text looks a lot like some of the HoME books (numbered notes at the end of each section, different font sizes to separate the story from commentaries). My question is: why is the Unfinished Tales not a part of the HoME series?


----------



## jallan (Jan 10, 2003)

It should almost be called HoME 0, as a kind of beginning of the series.

Christopher Tolkien edited it before he decided to produce the HoME series. It mostly, but not altogether, contains material that is congruent with the published _Silmarillion_ and writings published his his father's lifetime, and in some cases Christopher Tolkien has slightly edited the material into more finished form and replace manuscript versions of names with the names in the previously published texts.

This Christopher Tolkien does not do in the HoME series.


----------



## redline2200 (Jan 21, 2003)

*The HOME books............*

Can anyone tell me how many History of Middle-Earth books there are? I heard there was 12, but I am not exactly sure. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## FoolOfATook (Jan 21, 2003)

There are officially 12 books in the _History Of Middle Earth_:
1. The Book Of Lost Tales
2. The Book Of Lost Tales Volume II
3. The Lays Of Beleriand
4. The Shaping Of Middle-earth
5. The Lost Road and Other Writings
6. The Return Of The Shadow
7. The Treason Of Isengard
8. The War Of The Ring
9. Sauron Defeated
10. Morgoth's Ring
11. The War Of The Jewels
12. The Peoples Of Middle-earth

However, Houghton Mifflin, for their paperback editions of the _History Of The Lord Of The Rings_ (Volumes 6-9) printed a book titled "The End Of The Third Age", which is the first part of _Sauron Defeated_. So, there are officially 12 volumes, but there are thirteen books, if you follow.

One could also consider _Unfinished Tales_ to be a sort of "unofficial" part of the HoME, since it follows the same form that Christopher Tolkien used in the HoME series, but it was published before the HoME series began, and was never "retconned" in.


----------



## redline2200 (Jan 24, 2003)

I follow perfectly, thanks.


----------



## GuardianRanger (Feb 6, 2003)

I've also seen a 13th book listed....an index. I've only seen this in "boxed sets."


----------



## FoolOfATook (Feb 6, 2003)

From what I understand, there is an index to the complete HoMe, but it's only available in the UK right now. I do know that I haven't seen it at any of the bookstores that I haunt.


----------



## Bombadillo (Feb 12, 2003)

is home worth reading?... it sounds a bit boring... twelve books with (as i believe) mostly the same stories as in the sil and lotr...

(you can just pm me about this, as not to spoil this thread)


----------



## Niniel (Feb 12, 2003)

I saw the Index to HoME in our bookshop. But I really want to know if it's worth reading before I buy any HoMe books, since they're at least 20 euros each (which is also 20 dollars), so that would be like 250 euros for all of them, and I can't afford that.


----------



## Inderjit S (Feb 12, 2003)

You don't have to buy them in bulk. Buying one every few months would be pretty cost effective.


----------



## FoolOfATook (Feb 13, 2003)

Niniel,
You'd obviously know more about Dutch bookstores than I would, but I can say that over here in the states, most, if not all, of the HoMe is available in paperbacks that cost around $8. Maybe there are similiarly priced editions in Europe?


----------



## Niniel (Feb 14, 2003)

I'm afraid not. Books (and CD's, and DVD's) are ridiculously expensive in the Netherlands, compared to almost every other country. Maybe I should try buying them from Amazon or Ebay, that might be cheaper. Anyway, I'm first going to read the Letters of Tolkien, which I bought yesterday. Yay! And after that I'll think about HoME.


----------



## Feänor (Feb 14, 2003)

Is is just me, or is the hardcover edition of 'The book of lost tales, part II' no longer in print? All I've seen is the Houghton Mifflin 1984 hardcover going for $100-200 used.


----------



## morello13 (Feb 14, 2003)

i have the red hardcover book of last tales form library right now no sure how old it is, if i can 200 bucks for i should just steal it and sell it on ebay


----------



## FoolOfATook (Feb 15, 2003)

> I'm first going to read the Letters of Tolkien, which I bought yesterday. Yay



_Letters_ is a book that I fall in love with more and more every time I pick it up. I know that I enjoy it more than all of HoMe, except for the History of LOTR and parts of _Peoples of Middle-earth_ and _Morgoth's Ring_. His letters to the Nazi officials about publishing the Hobbit in Germany should settle once and for all and accusations that Tolkien was racist. His letters to his children reveal just how deeply he loved them and cared for them. His letters about religion show a man who had thought deeply about his faith, exploring it while never doubting it. It's truly an amazing book, and I'm not sure if I could ever thank Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien enough for giving it to us.


----------



## Niniel (Feb 23, 2003)

I completely agree with you FoaT! I've only gotten to letter 60 or so, but I enjoy them thoroughly! There are lots of very interesting ideas about the early concepts of LOTR. It's also interesting to see how JRRT struggled with writing LOTR; at first he thought he wouldn't have enough stuff to write a sequel to the Hobbit, since he had used all his ideas for the Hobbit. And then slowly you can see LOTR growing.... his publishers got rather desperate I believe. And what he writes about war does rather much apply to the current situation in the world, which makes it very interesting. I'll go on reading the rest of the letters, I love them!


----------



## pgt (Mar 18, 2003)

Thanks for the list - I'm going to keep that one and use it to drop hints around Birthdays and other convenient times.

Do the books have to read 'in order'? 

Anymore my interests have evolved to focus specifically on the events of LotR, men and the 3rd age (and perhaps earlier like Numenor's rise and fall). Dwarves and Hobbits as well. 

Which books would you suggest staring with to focus on those areas of interest? I'm guessing Vol 6-12?

thanks,
-T

PS: Is the Atlas of Middle Earth a good companion to all of these books? Any 'other' companions worth considering too?


----------



## Beleg (Mar 18, 2003)

Humm, truth be told HOME series is really, really hard to find here. Hardcovers are not avvalable, to get paperback i need to travel 1000 miles + they are real expensive, and second hand copies are also difficult to come by. 
The best way is to haunt a person who has the books and then photocopy them.
Some people feel letter's are boring but sometimes they are as interesting as the story. Its like reading someone's Journal and it tells us more about the person and the reasoning behind his writing etc, etc.


----------



## Inderjit S (Mar 18, 2003)

> Anymore my interests have evolved to focus specifically on the events of LotR, men and the 3rd age (and perhaps earlier like Numenor's rise and fall). Dwarves and Hobbits as well.



For Numenor, see-HoME 5. 

For LoTR and the Third Age see-HoME 6-9, For the develoment of LoTR, plus information on Numenor in the 'Notion Club Papers' in HoME 9 and HoME 12 for information on Hobbit geneaolgies (I found it very, very dull) and an essay called 'Of Dwarves and Men' about early Dwarven movement/history.


----------



## Melko Belcha (Mar 18, 2003)

Unfinished Tales contains alot of late writing from Tolkien about the Second and Third Age, plus two great stories from the First.
I & II - The Book of Lost Tales pt. 1 & 2 in the earliest writings that eventualy became The Simarillion.
III - The Lays of Beleriand contains Tolkiens unfinished poems for the story of Turin and Beren and Luthien. A truely amazing read.
IV - The Shaping of Middle-earth contains the only full version of The Silmarillion plus the first map.
V- The Lost Road and other writings. The Lost Road is a story Tolkien never completed but gave rise to the tale of Numenor. The book also contains all his writing on the Sil up until LOTR is started.
VI, VII, & VIII - The Return of the Shadow, The Treason of Isengard, and The War of the Ring all deal with the writing of LOTR.
IX - Sauron Defeated. The first half finishes LOTR plus the original last chapter. The second half contains The Notion Club Papers and the later Fall of Numenor.
X & XI - Morgoth's Ring and The War of the Jewels is all the later writings of the Sil from after LOTR till his death. My personal favorites.
XII - The Peoples of Middle-earth deals with the appendix's of LOTR plus a few other later writings like the sequel to LOTR.


----------



## pgt (Mar 18, 2003)

Just to clarify, these various volumes 'expand' upon the relavant Sil and the LOTOR appendices and don't simply regurgitate them?

---

They aren't very easy to come by in my area either. I see an occasional paperback here or there but never more than a couple few paperbacks at even the larger bookstores.

-
thanks,
-T


----------



## Melko Belcha (Mar 18, 2003)

Yes but not really.
The 12 volumes is the history of Tolkiens writings. There are many incomplete stories and essays that he never meant to release. There is alot of repetition but you see how the stories grow and also see all the stuff Christopher Tolkien had to work with to get The Silmarillion in a form that could be published.
The books are not for everyone so read Unfinished Tales and if you can handle that then the rest is not that hard.


----------



## Walter (Mar 19, 2003)

For a short description of each Volume you could check out the Book section over at the TolkienWiki: The History of Middle-earth. 

pgt & Beleg: Buying the books online (e.g. Amazon (.com or .co.uk) or Barnes&Nobles is not an option for you? (just in case: At the book pages are also links to the books at Amazon and Barnes&Noble provided)


----------



## Melko Belcha (Mar 19, 2003)

I would read them in order because it shows you the growth of the legends. 

6-9 deal with LOTR, 12 deals with the appendix, Unfinished Tales covers alot of the Second and Third age.

The Atlas of Middle-earth is great.
Also get The Complete guide to Middle-earth by Robert Foster.


----------



## Inderjit S (Mar 19, 2003)

> Also get The Complete guide to Middle-earth by Robert Foster.



I respectfully disagree. The complete guide is astonishingly innacurate geographically and information wise.


----------



## Melko Belcha (Mar 19, 2003)

> I respectfully disagree. The complete guide is astonishingly innacurate geographically and information wise.




Inderjit S please give example.


----------



## Walter (Mar 19, 2003)

> If I have been inadequate in explanation or unintentionally obscure, Mr. Robert Foster's Complete Guide to Middle-earth supplies, as I have found through frequent use, an admirable work of reference.
> 
> Christopher Tolkien - UT


I too use the Guide frequently as a starting point for some research and would be interested to learn where it is _astonishingly inaccurate geographically and information wise_...

The only thing one has to keep in mind when using it, is that its information ends more or less with the Sil.


----------



## Melko Belcha (Mar 19, 2003)

I use it to help jog my memory on stuff. And to get page #'s for alot of the quotes I'm looking for that I cannot find in the Index to a book. The Index to LOTR dosen't cover the Appendix but the Guide still gives you page #'s so you don't have to search the Appendix everytime you are looking sentence to quote.


----------



## Inderjit S (Mar 20, 2003)

I am sorry, I got my scholars confused. I meant David Day.


----------



## Melko Belcha (Mar 20, 2003)

Yes I agree about David Day's not being very accurate.


----------



## Niniel (Apr 8, 2003)

Another question about the HOME books (since that's the topic of this thread): I finally got hold of half of them: 1, 4, 5, 10, 11, and 12, and I was wondering does it matter whether I read them in order or can I just read them anyway I like? It might be a while before I can find the other half, and I don't want to wait with reading those I have until I get the rest.


----------



## Confusticated (Apr 8, 2003)

I found these very useful in getting a good understanding of the contents of HoMe at a glance:

What's in the History of Middle-earth? 

The HoMe texts in chronological order.


----------



## Walter (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Niniel _
> *Another question about the HOME books (since that's the topic of this thread): I finally got hold of half of them: 1, 4, 5, 10, 11, and 12, and I was wondering does it matter whether I read them in order or can I just read them anyway I like? It might be a while before I can find the other half, and I don't want to wait with reading those I have until I get the rest. *


 Vol 6-9 cover the development of the LotR which can pretty well be read separately from the rest at any time. 

Vol 3 - the lays (poems) of the tales of Túrin and Luthien - can IMO also be seen separately from the rest since most of the actual contents can also be found elsewhere in the HoMe.

Vol 2 - the Lost Tales II - would be the logical sequel of the Lost Tales I, both together represent the first versions of the tales which Tolkien had begun sometime about 1915 and what much later became the The Silmarillion.

---- 

Vol 10-12 cover the post LotR development of the Sil, and contain quite a lot of material which has not been presented in the published Silmarillion. Those would be a possible entry-point - especially if you have read the Sil and don't plan to get the LTII anytime soon.

If you plan to get the LT II in the near future I'd read them in the order 1,2,4,5, 10-12 and Vol 3 anytime in between or later if at all (yes, I'm not really partial to reading poems ).


----------



## Iluisa Olórin (Apr 9, 2003)

> PS: Is the Atlas of Middle Earth a good companion to all of these books? Any 'other' companions worth considering too?



Christopher Tolkien recommends Robert Foster's _The Complete Guide to Middle-earth_, which I find an invaluable reference.


----------



## Maedhros (Jul 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Walter_
> Vol 3 - the lays (poems) of the tales of Túrin and Luthien - can IMO also be seen separately from the rest since most of the actual contents can also be found elsewhere in the HoMe.


Well Walter, I have to disagree with you here. I think that you should read them in order 1-5. Why? Because when you are reading the commentaries made by CT in _Home 3_, he makes references mostly to _The Tale of Tinúviel_ and _The Tale of Turambar_ in home 2. If you read them in order, you would have those stories fresh in your mind when the comparisons are made. In _The Lay of Leithien_, you can see also the development of the Nargothrond element. The name Nargothrond actually appeared here first as Felagund too. One would miss the earlier conception that it was Celegorm and Curufin the ones who founded Nargothrond.
Also, when reading _Home 4_, _Quenta Noldorinwa_, in the main narrative there are references to _The Lay of Leithien_, as they are in _The Published Silmarillion_ too. Besides, would someone want to miss the great description of Nargothrond made in _The Lay of the Children of Húrin_? Or the details of Húrin's imprisionment in Angband?


----------



## Walter (Jul 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Maedhros _
> *Well Walter, I have to disagree with you here. I think that you should read them in order 1-5. Why? Because when you are reading the commentaries made by CT in home 3, he makes references mostly to The Tale of Tinúviel and The Tale of Turambar in home 2. If you read them in order, who would have those stories fresh in your mind when the comparisons are made. In The Lay of Leithien, you can see also the development of the Nargothrond element. The name Nargothrond actually appeared here first as Felagund too. One would miss the earlier conception that it was Celegorm and Curufin the ones who founded Nargothrond.
> Also, when reading home 4, Quenta Noldorinwa, in the main narrative there are references to The Lay of Leithien, as they are in The Published Silmarillion too. Besides, would someone want to miss the great description of Nargothrond made in The Lay of the Children of Húrin? Or the details of Húrin's imprisionment in Angband? *


 No problem, Maedhros, you've sure got a point there, at least from the scholarly point of view! 

Now the reason why I said it can be read separately and referred to the "actual contents", meaning the lays seen as beautiful pieces of poetry on their own, without connection to the rest of Tolkien's literary works: I know of a few readers who have greatly enjoyed reading the lays as the only part of HoMe because with those Tolkien beautifully approaches and resembles the poems in Old- and Middle-English he adored so much. 

And besides, following the discussions on TTF, I somehow get the impression that many readers seem to seldom bother reading CT's comments...


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 4, 2003)

I am far from being able to advise anyone in what order to read the HoMe - volumes.
Partly, because it depends on what one has available!
Partly, because some of us are more interested in the Sil - story and others - in the LOTR - story.

I would suggest however, from what I have been lucky to read - start and procede just as the volumes are numbered. It gives you a perfect view on how the creation of the final stories had been achieved.

As for Volume III - that is a marvellous collection of some fine poetry - a poetry that if you care reading it aloud, you'll find yourself almost singing!; a poetry that inspires and moves; a poetry that gives a lot of information too; a poetry that practically takes your mind to that imaginary world, called Middle-earth!

Oh, and DO read Christopher Tolkien's comments! A lot to be learned from them!


----------



## Beleg (Jul 4, 2003)

Personally I didn't find Volume III all that fun. 
Perhaps the most boring part of all HOME series. 
But that offcourse is my personal opinion since I am not very fond of poetry. 

Whatever order, Volume VI, VII, VIII, IX should be read togather. 
IMO.


----------



## Ardamir the Blessed (Aug 1, 2003)

I rarely have any favourites regarding Tolkien; I rather view all texts as a whole, but of the things I've read in HoMe and UT, which aren't that much:

Everything in UT is completely great.  No need to elaborate further there.

I didn't think that I (the first volume) was so interesting, knowing that it's mostly obsolete material, and the material that isn't obsolete was so similar to the published _Silmarillion_. Some things like the traveller Eriol were interesting though, and that cottage of lost play. 

_The Fall of Gondolin_ in II is something to be mentioned though. I haven't read it in full myself, but according to others it's very good and exciting, and it can with some fairly rough modifications be viewed as not abandonded material, because Tolkien never rewrote it, and adds many pages to the legends of the First Age.

I think _The Lost Road_ in V is interesting with it's linking of modern times to ancient times, and it would be a good topic for a thread, I think. I know that the idea was later rejected, but the conversations between Elendil and his son *Herendil* can, with some modifications (thinking of Herendil as Isildur, for example), I believe, even be regarded as not rejected by Tolkien because they don't seem to contradict much with his latest views concerning the Downfall, and the conversations seem to be a quite natural part of the build-up to the Downfall, thus adding more material to the Second Age, of which there isn't so much (at least in the amount of text) written.

The development of the conceptions of Númenor until the _Akallabêth_ are also interesting to follow in V (_The Fall of Númenor_) and IX (_The Drowning of Anadûnê_).

I've read a little of the beginning of VI and Tolkien's first views of Bilbo's doings in LR are quite amusing (getting married and all that). I am sure it's very interesting to follow the development of LR in the LR HoMe's, and I know there might be some material that one may take as small additions to the final LR, and that makes them especially interesting. In VII one can find additional material about Tolkien's views of Lothlórien and it's conception of time, for example.

I've yet to read _The Notion Club Papers_ in IX but I am sure it's interesting.

I haven't read anything of X yet but I know a bit about it and that it is a must read for every true Tolkien fan. _Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth_ and _Myths Transformed_ are very important texts concerning Tolkien's latest conceptions of the mythology.

I have acquainted myself with the _Wanderings of Húrin_ in XI, and I know that it can somehow fit in with the ruin of Doriath and the rest of the legends of the First Age, so it's great that it adds many pages to that Age. In _Quendi and Eldar_ there is very interesting information about the very first Elves.

XII is an excellent volume in that it contains a lot of material that can be added to the mythology. Of the things I've read (or know) especially _The History of the Akallabêth_, _The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen_, _Durin's Folk_, _Of Dwarves and Men_, _The Shibboleth of Fëanor_, _The Problem of Ros_, _Last Writings_, _Of Lembas_, _The New Shadow_, and _Tal-Elmar_ all add more material, in some cases very important.

It will take a long time, but I intend to read the whole HoMe series, and everything else Tolkien ever wrote as well, probably.  I am not just interested in reading everything that can be considered part of the latest mythology - following the development of the texts is also interesting and makes you understand Tolkien's works better.


----------



## Bucky (Aug 17, 2003)

> I & II - The Book of Lost Tales pt. 1 & 2 in the earliest writings that eventualy became The Simarillion.



I found it unreadable 20+ years ago.





> III - The Lays of Beleriand contains Tolkiens unfinished poems for the story of Turin and Beren and Luthien. A truely amazing read.[/quote[
> 
> I find most of the poetry in The Hobbit & LOTR 'skipable material' & hard to read.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ardamir the Blessed (Sep 14, 2003)

The three last volumes are very good for more information. I don't know if 4 is so good for that.


----------



## Confusticated (Sep 14, 2003)

*Bucky...*



> *from CT's Foreword to BoLT*
> 
> _The Book of Lost Tales_ was begun by my father in 1916-17 during the First War, when he was 25 years old, and left incomplete several years later. It is the starting-point, at least in fully-formed narrative, of the history of Valinor and Middle-earth; but before the _Tales_ were complete he turned to the composition of long poems, the _Lay of leithian_ in rhyming couplets (the story of beren and Luthien), and _The Children of Hurin_ in alliterative verse. The prose form of the 'mythology' began again from a new starting point in a quite breif synopsis, or 'Sketch' as he called it, written in 1926 and expressly intended to provide the necessary background of knowledge for the understanding of the alliterative poem. The further written developement of the prose form proceeded from that 'Sketch' in a direct line to the version of 'The Silmarillion' which was nearing completion towards the end of 1937, when my father broke off to send it as it stood to Allen and Unwin in November of that year; butthere were also important side-branches and subordinate texts composed in the 1930s, as the _Annals of Valinor_ and he Annals of beleriand[/i] (fragments of which are extant also in the Old English translations made by Aelfwine (Eriol)), the cosmological account called Ambarkanta, the Shape of the World, by Rumil, and the _Lhammas_ or 'Account of Tongues', by Pengolod of Gondolin. Thereafter the history of the First Age was laid aside for many years, until [i[The Lord of the Rings[/i] was completed, but in years precedin its actual publication my father returned to 'The Silmarillion' and associated works with great vigour.



The Poems reffered to are found in HoME III

The 'Sketch' is found in HoME IV, as is the Quenta Noldorinwa which was an expansion following from that outline.

The next Silmarillion which was 'nearling completing towards the end of 1937' is 'Quenta Silmarillion' found in HoME V, but it is not a complete narrative as was Quenta Noldorinwa. This is the rewritting Tolkien was doing before he ceased working and got busy with LotR. There are Annals of Valinor and Beleriand with this.

The Silmarillion writings returned to after that had been set aside for years is found in HoME X and XI. These are the Later Quentas from the 50s. LQ1 from early fifties and LQ2 from late 50s. The later annals are given with it too. The Aman portion in X and the Beleriand part in XI.

One good thing about Later Quenta is that it contains some information that will be completely new to you, especially if you have interest in elves. There is a lot of interesting stuff on them in HoME X and XI. Or don't mind me, I don't know what I'm talking about with recomendations. hehe!



> And, is it written in 'the extreme archaic style my father employed at the time' as CT says of BoLT?


ha!  ... but no, the language in this is not like that in BoLT. 

About BoLT being unreadable: I found it hardly readable several months ago, though not because of the archaic language but because I thought of it as, as has been said in this thread already, obsolete, and I also didn't want it mish-mashing with the later writings in my mind. But I'd recommend taking another look at it if you haven't in awhile... maybe you'll find that it can be enjoyed for what it is regardless of the what came of it? I only suggest this because when I returned to it after after only having read Fall of Gondolin (several months earlier) and the first 3 chapters of BoLT I (a few months earlier), I found I loved the thing... which was surpising, but perhaps it happens with others too? 

I am sorry I did not notice your post sooner or I would have answered right away.


----------



## Inderjit S (Sep 14, 2003)

> Full version of The Sil



None of the other attempts at writing the Quenta Silmarillion, were complete, Tolkien quite someway through each text. (HoME 5, 10, 11.) Tolkien does have a detailed Annals accompanying each, though. The _Grey Annals_ (HoME 11) forms a large part of the _Published Silmarillion_ .



> BTW, If I'm only interested in more information on M-E & not alternate versions, how good are the last 3 volumes



The Quenta's and Annals of HoME 5,10 and 11 were all used to write the _Published Silmarillion_. HoME 4 contains some interesting and original maps, as well as early versions of the Quenta Silmarillion. HoME 5 contains a wholly independent story named _The Lost Road_ which is (in a nutshell) about Numenor. It also contains the earliest info. on the S.A and Numenor, as well as the Latter Quenta Silmarillion and Annals of Beleriand. You seem dismissive about info. on early versions of LoTR, so I don't know how interested you will be in rejected/early ideas in regards to the F.A, which are basically what 4 and 5 are about. 

HoME 10 and 11, are what made up a lot of the _Published Silmarillion_ with some new info., but also contains some rejected ideas, so be careful. They also contain some great essays, Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, Laws and Customs of the Eldar, a collection of essays grouped together and called 'Myths Transformed' (HoME 10) and Wanderings of Hurin and _Quendi and Eldar_ both contain a lot of original work, hardly seen before. HoME 12, is divided with work on the Appendix and a serious of essays by Tolkien, in his latter years, and are v.interesting and informative.

The LoTR volumes may not interest you, but do not immediately discount them. The latter part of HoME 9, the last 'LoTR' volume has some interesting info. on non-LoTR things and we get some maps of M-E below Gondor/Mordor in HoME 7.


----------



## King Aragorn (Jun 10, 2004)

What's HOME?

I suppose that you can get background info from other books like the Silmarillion, Book of Lost Tales, etc.


----------



## Supernita (Jun 11, 2004)

HOME is History of Middle Earth. I don't actually have them all yet, all I have is Book of Lost Tales 1 & 2.. but as far as I know, it's just TONS of backstory. I've heard it pretty much explains everything. It's 12 (or 13, with the index I think) books, but you can buy them all separately or in a 3 volume set. I've been having a really hard time finding them in stores, but they sound like they'll be really interesting to read. I think History of Middle Earth says it all.. I'm hoping it's exactly that.. a history explaining all these little questions we all have. I think everyone that always answers all these little questions has read HOME... so I'm hoping when I'm done reading them, I'll be just as smart  (keep dreaming Nita)


----------



## King Aragorn (Jun 11, 2004)

I've started to read The Silmarillion and The Book of Lost Tales, but I have never been able to finish them. Probably because I have to check them out from the library.


----------



## Supernita (Jun 11, 2004)

I've been buying all the books I can find related to LOTR.. but I'm only just over half way through Two Towers so far.. I haven't had much time to read in the last 6 months. I'm excited to start reading The Sil, Unfinished Tales and all the others. I'm sure I'll be posting on here a lot more when I start those.. heh. I'll have a question or two every day. I hope all you guys don't mind


----------



## baragund (Jun 11, 2004)

King Aragorn and Supernita,

I have had pretty good success finding all of the books in the HOME series on amazon.com. What's more, you can save a bit of money by buying them used. I have been able to buy used hard cover editions of the whole series and pay around $10 each with shipping. Paperback editions would be even less expensive.

And the HOME series is more than back story. It is practically all of the drafts and iterations JRRT went through in creating his mythology. You can see the evlolution of the stories from the time he was a teenager up until his death. Interesting stuff but MAN, if you thought the published Silmarillion had a lot of names and places you had to know, just multiply it by, oh, 3 or so and you will have an idea. Like the stories, the languages JRRT created went through quite an evolution.


----------



## GuardianRanger (Jun 11, 2004)

And since I started this thread with a Hobbit question and because I'm reading it...I highly recommend The Annotated Hobbit by JRRT and with annotations by Douglas A. Anderson. To me, it seems like the HOME of the Hobbit, if you know what I mean.


----------



## HLGStrider (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: rescuing princesses?*

I don't know if you have enough opinions or not, but I always give mine whether it is wanted or not. . .

Mine is that Middle Earth has been around and had enough cultures that they would've had folklore as well as history. This was obviously what was being told. I doubt they had a set of Grimm Brothers, but they would've had fairy tales.

I remember reading that there are dozens of versions of Cinderella from dozens of cultures, including China. Middle Earth would be no less diverse. There were such things as princesses. Princesses always have appeal. There were bound to be stories of them.


----------



## GuardianRanger (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: rescuing princesses?*

Don't worry HLGStrider, there is room for all opinions.

I agree with your assessment. It just seemed "fairy-taleish" (if that's a word.) I know that Tolkien hadn't written The Lord Of The Rings yet, so he probably hadn't figured that The Hobbit would be part of a great mythology. And since the book was written (initally) for children, I can see why the line was included. I guess it just stuck out at me because I know the bigger picture.


----------



## Supernita (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: rescuing princesses?*

About getting the books off amazon or used or whatever.... yea that hasn't been working. I'm trying to get a set of all 13 (wth index) matching.. which seems to be impossible now. I've seen a picture of them, so I know they exist, but I've gone to 14 different bookstores, at least 5 different sites (including amazon, barnes&noble, chapters.. etc), and I've even contacted harper collins directly.. and NOBODY can tell me how to get the matching set. I'm talking about the ones with the picture on the front and the title in the black box... seems to be popular, however I can only find 1 & 2 with that design. I don't want hardcover because they're too heavy, and I don't like buying used books. I may be picky, but I generally get what I want


----------



## Supernita (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: rescuing princesses?*

Well after I posted that, I went back to barnesandnoble.com and found 3 more.. so it's closer, but not quite all of them. I also found a few more on ebay, and I've contacted the seller inquiring about the condition of the books, because the price he has them at is almost as expensive as buying them new. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and hoping it all works out.

I just realized this thread has gone totally off topic. Was it because of me? I'll have to look back and check


----------



## Inderjit S (Jun 28, 2004)

> Tolkien hadn't written The Lord Of The Rings yet, so he probably hadn't figured that The Hobbit



'The Hobibt', nonetheless, has some links with Tolkiens Middle-Earth at the point it was written. Gondolin, Moria, Elrond and Durin are all mentioned-as well as Aman. 

LoTR was a product of fans of 'The Hobbit' desire to hear more stories about Hobbits. Tolkien was able to inegrate it within his mythology.


----------



## Lhunithiliel (Jul 17, 2004)

Gorthaur said:


> As far as i know,the letters are a separate work and are not mingled with the HOME series.
> I've only taken a brief glimpse at them once - I had to return them in an hour or so,but even in that short time I literally consumed them
> I think the letters are a must for any Tolkien fan and I'll be getting my own copy very soon.


You read the Letter in *just one hour* ?!!!  

I personally think that this collection should be "swallowed" in small bits. 
Together with H.Carpenther's Biography of the author, the _Letters_ are the main and most reliable source of information about the true and actual Tolkien's concept over and on his own writings. 
The rest is only interpretations and assumptions.
Therefore, I think that the _Letters_ is a read to consumed very slowly and carefully. They are a great reference source.


----------



## Grond (Jul 17, 2004)

Inderjit S said:


> ...HoME 10 and 11, are what made up a lot of the _Published Silmarillion_ with some new info., but also contains some rejected ideas, so be careful. They also contain some great essays, Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, Laws and Customs of the Eldar, a collection of essays grouped together and called 'Myths Transformed' (HoME 10) and Wanderings of Hurin and _Quendi and Eldar_ both contain a lot of original work, hardly seen before. HoME 12, is divided with work on the Appendix and a serious of essays by Tolkien, in his latter years, and are v.interesting and informative.
> 
> The LoTR volumes may not interest you, but do not immediately discount them. The latter part of HoME 9, the last 'LoTR' volume has some interesting info. on non-LoTR things and we get some maps of M-E below Gondor/Mordor in HoME 7.


I was just wondering who "rejected' the "ideas" and how you came to that conclusion. None of the Silmarillion was published and CT put his best face of the accumulated body of work of his father... but who can say what JRRT would have published had he lived??? To me, the published Sil is no more or less authoritative than any of the other later published Sil... all because none of it has the author's stamp of approval.


----------



## Confusticated (Jul 17, 2004)

Well reading the Notes and Commentary to something like Grey Annals or Later Quenta will show that Tolkien later wrote new ideas that directly conflicted with the earlier ones. Take for example the idea that the Quendi first learned language from Orome. If someone doesn't read carefully (for example only reads two paragraphs out of a chapter) they might miss the fact that Tolkien later decided the elves make their own tongue. Like Inderjit, I would call the idea of Orome teaching the elves their tongue a "rejected idea"... then there are countless things like the matter of who was the mother(s) of Finwe's children, and who indeed were Finwe's children?! Of course, people are free to imagine Middle-earth's history happened the way it was written in one of these "rejected ideas", but you can make a more informed decision if you know that Tolkien later wrote something at odds with it.


----------



## Grond (Jul 17, 2004)

But you can't have it both ways. The published Silmarillion also says,


> _from the Silmarillion, Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor_
> ...Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes.(emphasis added)


yet we have later writings from the author that state,


> _from Morgoth's Ring_
> Orcs.
> 
> Their nature and origin require more thought. They are not easy to work into the theory and system.
> ...


So from this very much later narrative we can see that the author had not "decided" what he would have "published" as the origing for Orcs. CT took his best shot. I still stand by my assertion that we'll never really know what a finished Silmarillion legendarium would look like... because the author hadn't written, compiled and edited it into a finished product for our consumption.

Don't get me wrong... I love what we have... but I'm not sure with what degree of certainty anyone can say what was fully accepted or rejected by the author... since a final version was never compiled by the author. Just MHO of course.


----------



## Confusticated (Jul 17, 2004)

Just becase we don't know what JRRT's final version would have been does not mean that ideas he changed were not rejected. Sure, he might even have gone back to old ideas but that doesn't change they had been rejected at some point.

I just don't think Inderjit was trying to say any one version is THE version of JRRT, but I guess he can answer that when he comes around.


----------



## Grond (Jul 17, 2004)

Maikanare said:


> ...I just don't think Inderjit was trying to say any one version is THE version of JRRT, but I guess he can answer that when he comes around.


If that is indeed what he is saying... then I'm in total agreeement. There are most certainly certainties in the works (cute huh??) There are things that were apparently finally etched in stone by the author and, yet, there was much that was left in limbo. CT giving us the Silmarillion did not create a canon from which we can quote with any real certainty on many issues pertaining to the mythology. That is all I'm trying to say. Just as we can't be sure of which ideas were totally rejected and those which weren't... except for the directions and opinions put forth by his son CT (who certainly knew as well as anybody where his father was heading) and what we can glean from the author's letters. 

Now... have I really confused you????


----------



## Barliman Butterbur (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: The Lost Road*



greypilgrim said:


> I have heard that Ronald (J.R.R.) wrote a story set in the 4th age about a man finding a lost road somewhere in England and it leads to Middle-earth. Can anyone confirm this and if possible, tell me if it is worth looking into and purchasing?



This is what I found on the Internet:

===============================


The Lost Road and Other Writings, Volume V

"Volume V, The Lost Road and Other Writings: Language and Legend before the Lord of the Rings, includes Tolkien’s writings on the First Age up to 1937, early drafts of the Legend of the Fall of Númenor, and the beginnings of a novel, The Lost Road, an abandoned time travel story. The Lost Road attempts to connect our history with that of Middle-earth by providing links between European legends (Beowulf, Atlantis and the Irish tales of Tir-nan-og) with incidents in the history of Middle-earth. A 20th century English father and son, who are the unknowing descendents of Elendil, develop the ability to reexperience their past lives and live the history of Europe and Middle-earth backwards until they experience the fall of Númenor/Atlantis."

===============================

Here is the source.

(What a lovely idea: that somewhere on Earth there is a hidden road leading to Middle-earth!)

Barley


----------



## Walter (Sep 8, 2004)

I'm not sure greypilgrim's question of Jan 2002 is still unanswered, but I'm afraid you've just come across another pitfall of the "knowledge-management by Google", Barley... 

The fragment of a story taking place in the 4th age is called _The New Shadow_ and is published in HoMeXII, _The Peoples of Middle-earth_.

_The Lost Road_ (published in HoMeV) is Tolkien's earlier attempt of a time-travel story (cf. Letters #252) - of which _The Notion Club Papers_ (published in HoMeIX) are the later attempt - but _The Lost Road_ does not, as the name seems to suggest, tell of a hidden road somewhere on Earth that leads to Middle-earth (even though the idea at one point occured to Tolkien (bear with me). 

Here's a brief account of Tolkien himself: 



> When C. S. Lewis and I tossed up, and he was to write on space-travel and I on time-travel, I began an abortive book of time-travel of which the end was to be the presence of my hero in the drowning of Atlantis. This was to be called Númenor, the Land in the West. The thread was to be the occurrence time and again in human families (like Durin among the Dwarves) of a father and son called by names that could be interpreted as Bliss-friend and Elf-friend. These no longer understood are found in the end to refer to the Atlantid-Númenórean situation and mean 'one loyal to the Valar, content with the bliss and prosperity within the limits prescribed' and 'one loyal to friendship with the High-elves'. It started with a father-son affinity between Edwin and Elwin of the present, and was supposed to go back into legendary time by way of an Eädwine and Ælfwine of circa A.D. 918, and Audoin and Alboin of Lombardic legend, and so the traditions of the North Sea concerning the coming of corn and culture heroes, ancestors of kingly lines, in boats (and their departure in funeral ships). One such Sheaf, or Shield Sheafing, can actually be made out as one of the remote ancestors of our present Queen. In my tale we were to come at last to Amandil and Elendil leaders of the loyal party in Númenor, when it fell under the domination of Sauron. Elendil 'Elf-friend' was the founder of the Exiled kingdoms in Arnor and Gondor. But I found my real interest was only in the upper end, the Akallabêth or Atalantie ('Downfall' in Númenórean and Quenya), so I brought all the stuff I had written on the originally unrelated legends of Númenor into relation with the main mythology.
> 
> Letters #257



The mentioned glimpses of actual history, like _"Lombardic legend"_, _"corn and culture heroes"_, _"Sheaf"_, etc. have given rise to a lot of speculations - and misconceptions - among Tolkien fans. What Tolkien indeed seems to have intended is to provide a link between the presence and his version of an Atlantis tale, the Akallabêth, and to lead the reader there providing several steps all of which _allude_ to - but his fragments should not be mistaken for - actual history. And Tolkien at one point intended even more steps - or stops - in his journey into the past, than are mentioned in his letter and which can be gathered from Christopher's comment: 



> This is followed by a rapid jotting down of ideas for the tales that should intervene between Alboin and Audoin of the twentieth century and Elendil and Herendil in Numenor, but these are tantalisingly brief: 'Lombard story?'; 'a Norse story of ship-burial (Vinland)'; 'an English story - of the man who got onto the Straight Road?'; 'a Tuatha-de-Danaan story, or Tir-nan-Og' (on which see pp. 81 - 3); a story concerning 'painted caves'; 'the Ice Age - great figures in ice', and 'Before the Ice Age: the Galdor story'; 'post-Beleriand and the Elendil and Gil-galad story of the assault on Thu'; and finally 'the Numenor story'.



And here we find this curious "Straight Road" or "Lost Road" mentioned again and a brief explanation - that explains it all  - is given too:



> To one of these, the 'English story of the man who got onto the Straight Road', is attached a more extended note, written at great speed:
> 
> But this would do best of all for introduction to the Lost Tales: How Ælfwine sailed the Straight Road. They sailed on, on, on over the sea; and it became very bright and very calm, - no clouds, no wind. The water seemed thin and white below. Looking down Ælfwine suddenly saw lands and mt [i.e. mountains or a mountain] down in the water shining in the sun. Their breathing difficulties. His companions dive overboard one by one. Ælfwine falls insensible when he smells a marvellous fragrance as of land and flowers. He awakes to find the ship being drawn by people walking in the water. He is told very few men there in a thousand years can breathe air of Eressëa (which is Avallon), but _none_ beyond. So he comes to Eressëa and is told the Lost Tales. Pencilled later against this is 'Story of Sceaf or Scyld'; and it was only here, I think, that the idea of the Anglo-Saxon episode arose (and this was the only one of all these projections that came near to getting off the ground).
> 
> HoMe V p. 78



Suddenly, everything becomes clear (?) and here we also have a parallel to the Scyld or Sheaf episodes mentioned in Letters #257, which Tolkien gave more thought lateron...


----------



## Barliman Butterbur (Sep 8, 2004)

Thanks for that in-depth explanation, Walter! It seems I'd better start tackling HoME. I'd been avoiding it, because I thought that it was a collection of "mere" unfinished drafts, the finished product being, of course, LOTR. But it begins to appear that I've been denying myself some great pleasures!

Which volumes do you recommend I start on?

Barley


----------



## Walter (Sep 8, 2004)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Which volumes do you recommend I start on?


That very much depends on where your chief interests lie.

HoMe indeed are only drafts and fragments of Tolkiens works, edited and commented by his son Christopher.

Vols 6-9 represent the History of the LotR
1&2 , 4&5, 10&11 (roughly) the development of the Sil from the ealiest stages, pre-LotR and post-LotR, Vol 3 deals with Tolkien's poetic approach to the Sil and Vol 12 deals mainly with the appendices...

For more details maybe see http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?The__History__of__Middle-earth


----------



## Barliman Butterbur (Sep 8, 2004)

Walter said:


> ...For more details maybe see http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?The__History__of__Middle-earth



Thanks for that link!

Barley


----------



## Arvedui (Sep 9, 2004)

Somebody (I think it was Grond) once adviced that HoME should be read 'backwards.'
Then it would be something like sequence:
- Vol 12,
- Vol 10 + 11, 
- Vol 6-9,
- Vol 5,
- Vol 4,
- Vol 1-3.

Worked well for me, but you may have other experiences.
Good luck anyway.


----------



## Barliman Butterbur (Sep 9, 2004)

Arvedui said:


> Somebody (I think it was Grond) once adviced that HoME should be read 'backwards.'...



There's a novel (no pun intended!) idea: on the theory that the later tomes reflect the most developed writings?

Barley


----------



## Amarie Veanne (Jun 16, 2007)

Concerning the HoME series, I've first started to read the Peoples, because taht was the only book in the store when I went shopping  later I've acquired some other titles, but I still miss six titles (the books are very rare here where I live,apparently there's a couple of copies in the whole state ).
I found it quite hard to read out of order, because of the numberless references to later works, especially BoLt, and after some time it gets really frustrating... So, as for me, I advice reading by order, if possible...


----------



## Illuin (Jul 1, 2008)

I am seeing that some find the *HoME* books (including *Unfinished Tales*) difficult to read. Back in college, I used to tutor math and folks would come to me and say; “_Ya know, I just don’t understand calculus; it just doesn’t make any sense”._ And I would say;_ “How is your algebra and trigonometry_?” They would say; _“Well, it could be better”. _I would reply; _Well, calculus is actually very simple *IF*_ _you‘ve got your algebra and trig down_  .

The same analogy applies to the _HoME_ series. *If* you have read *The Silmarillion, Lord Of The Rings, The Hobbit,* and now also *The Children Of Hurin* - and know these books well (not just _LOTR_ and _The Hobbit_); the _HoME _series is almost intuitive, and barely even requires any thought. It’s just more detailed info on what you already know (or should know before you dive into _HoME_) - and it’s actually *very* enjoyable. If you expect to comprehend _HoME_, and you haven’t read (_thoroughly read_) *The Silmarillion* especially, you will indeed be a lost tale  .


----------



## Thorin (Jul 5, 2008)

"Morgoth's Ring" and "War of the Jewels" (HoME X and XI I believe) are a MUST read for Sil fans. Out of the 5 HoME books I've read, these two are the most informative and interesting and give TONNES of information about timelines when the Valar came to Middle Earth, the awakening of the Elves, the wars and many other juicy bits of info.

Highly recommended

And also the 'Fall of Gondolin' narrative in Book of Lost Tales II


----------



## Illuin (Jul 6, 2008)

Yeah, I think those are the best _HoME_ volumes by far as well; unless you consider _Unfinished Tales_ part of that group; which is my favorite of the so-called reference material. The “*Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth*” in _Morgoth’s Ring_ is really good stuff.


----------

