# Did Andúril shine? I think so...........



## Flame of Anor (Sep 18, 2002)

Was Aragorns sword, Andúril, supposed to glow? Here is a quote that leads me to believe that it should have....


> 'Gúthwinë!' cried Éomer. 'Gúthwinë for the Mark!'
> 'Andúril!' cried Aragorn. 'Andúril for the Dúnedain!'
> Charging from the side, they hurled themselves upon the wild men. Andúril rose and fell, gleaming with white fire. A shout went up from wall and tower: 'Andúril! Andúril goes to war. The Blade that was Broken shines again!'
> Dismayed the rammers let fall the trees and turned to fight; but the wall of their shields was broken as by a lightning-stroke, and they were swept away, hewn down, or cast over the Rock into the stony stream below. The orc-archers shot wildly and then fled.


Also, the definition to Andúril is: The Flame of the West. And, since Andúril was for from the Shards of Narsil. I will give you the definition of Narsil, which means: 'fire' and 'white light'.

That is where I drew my conclusions from. What do you think?

-Flame


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## Anamatar IV (Sep 18, 2002)

Anduril shined with the light of Narsil. I dont know what exactly more to say.


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## Ariana Undomiel (Sep 18, 2002)

In Lord of the Rings, almost anything can happen. It could be quite possible that Anduril shines because was it not reforged by Elvin smithies? Or perhaps it shines with the passionate fire of the king who weilds it. I really have no facts to give as options.

~Ariana


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## Grond (Sep 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ariana Undomiel _
> *In Lord of the Rings, almost anything can happen. It could be quite possible that Anduril shines because was it not reforged by Elvin smithies? Or perhaps it shines with the passionate fire of the king who weilds it. I really have no facts to give as options.
> 
> ~Ariana *


Narsil was originally forged by Telchar, the most famous of Dwarve-smiths. Narsil was was reforged in Imladirs and made into Anduril by the Smithies there who were very likely the remaining remnants of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain. Those Noldorin Smiths would have been some of the same ones who helped to forge the Rings of Power and most assuredly could have woven it with spells that would cause it to flash when it struck an enemy. I don't recall it ever specifically spelling that out but think it is entirely believeable within the context of Middle-earth.


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## Ceorl (Sep 19, 2002)

I am pretty sure that Anduril shone, many swords in ME shone, or glowed and it is as several people have pointd out it is well within the boundaries of ME. Also it is described as glowing on numerous occassions, and I cannot think of an adequate metaphor for what other thing Tolkien might have been attempting to convey by saying that it glowed. To me it is a clear stated and pretty obvious case.


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## Cian (Sep 20, 2002)

'Flame of the West' is a bit of loose/poetic translation: 'flame' corresponds to -ril: the same -ril as in Mithril, Silmaril, Nen Cenedril, "a bright, gleaming light". 


_Andû_ is adequately explained (by David Salo) as a development of _*ndûme,_ cognate to Q. _núme_ "going down, occident'", root NDU 'go down'.


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## Lantarion (Sep 20, 2002)

So how did it become the denotation of English 'west', if its original meaning would have leant towards an alternative meaning, 'south'?

I personally think that the 'flashing' has symbolic meaning, and in the LotR it is a dramatization or manifestation of Aragorn's passion and love for his country and heritage, and his will to keep out aggressive intruders. Frodo, Sam and Bilbo (along with Merry and Pippin) wrote the events of the War of the Ring into the Red Book of Westmarch, I'm pretty sure. They themselves were not there, and would have relied on eyewitness reports alone. I am not 100% sure of this information, but I will check and edit any errors later (I borrowed my LotR to a friend).


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## Tyaronumen (Sep 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *So how did it become the denotation of English 'west', if its original meaning would have leant towards an alternative meaning, 'south'?
> 
> I personally think that the 'flashing' has symbolic meaning, and in the LotR it is a dramatization or manifestation of Aragorn's passion and love for his country and heritage, and his will to keep out aggressive intruders. Frodo, Sam and Bilbo (along with Merry and Pippin) wrote the events of the War of the Ring into the Red Book of Westmarch, I'm pretty sure. They themselves were not there, and would have relied on eyewitness reports alone. I am not 100% sure of this information, but I will check and edit any errors later (I borrowed my LotR to a friend). *



Well, it may have symbolic meaning as well, but there is a lot in the book to indicate that Anduril *did* gleam, or shine, or glow, or flash, what have you.

As for the original meaning, "occident" refers to "west", not "south", and the "going down" part probably refers to the setting of the Sun.


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## Grond (Sep 20, 2002)

> _from The Fellowship of the Ring, The Bridge of Khazad-dum_
> ...There was a *flash like flame* and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head. His followers fled howling, as Boromir and Aragorn sprang at them.


Maybe that is merely a dramatic effect but it sounds to me like it shone of its own light.


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## Lantarion (Sep 20, 2002)

Yes, I was wondering why 'going down' and 'occident' (Latin _occildentalis_, 'western') were the meaning of the same word..  Thanks.


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