# orcs, elves fallen from grace right? did they lose immortality too?



## elvenbladesmith (Jun 16, 2005)

im new here and this question has been bothering me for some time. i dont remember tolkien addressing this much at all, orcs where just deterents there so aragorn would have something to hack on. thanks for the help!

also could someone explain the mouth of sauron to me? who is he, where is he from? man or spirit? that sort of thing.
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Message edited to combine two posts

Gothmog


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## Gothmog (Jun 16, 2005)

Ok. The immortallity/mortallity of Orcs is not a simple question to answer. First, there is no proof either way as to the origin of Orcs. At no point are we given a definitive statement as to how they came about. Each time this comes up in the stories we are only told what the lesser charators of the stories believe.

Tolkien does not address this question fully as he had not made a final decision as to where Orcs came from and therefore could not even start to answer where they went.

As to the Mouth of Sauron, it seems that he is of Numenorian desent who went into the service of Sauron. We are given the impression that he is of great age, perhaps similar to that of the Nazgul. The only thing we are sure of is that he is basically a Man so if he is af such great age as we are given to believe this must be due to some power of Sauron holding him in Arda in a similar way as the rings hold the Nazgul (but not in the same way as the Nazgul had lost all power of independant action and were only extentions of Sauron's will)


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## elvenbladesmith (Jun 16, 2005)

wow, you answered my questions fully, thanks!


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## Alatar (Jun 16, 2005)

My motto, if tolkein did not know, i do not know it, if he did not say...RPG it!


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## Wraithguard (Jun 21, 2005)

Don't feel bad about the Mouth situation. It took me a long time to figure it out.

The Mouth of Sauron is a Black Nùmenorian who entered Sauron's service during the Second Age and advanced through the ranks by his cunning and evil. He is also a great sorcerer which is how he preserved himself for thousands of years. By the time the War of the Ring occured. He was the Lieutinant of Barad-dûr (Sauron's Tower or Lugbùrz). He died at the Battle of the Black gate.

Hope that clears things up a bit. I am sorry if it seems like I am trying to show off but I just want to make sure you are clear because it drove me mad for 2 years.


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