# Rumor: Amazon to retool Rings of Power



## Ealdwyn (Oct 28, 2022)

Anybody know how true this is?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Haven't seen the post before this, but judging by the font alone, I wouldn't trust it.


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## Ent (Oct 28, 2022)

Ealdwyn said:


> Anybody know how true this is?


I do not "know". But I do know it's a patchwork quilt using an image that's been around for quite some time.
So I would give it about a 0.000025 percent chance of being real.

Otherwise we'd know its source without having to do a bunch of digging.


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## Ealdwyn (Oct 28, 2022)

The Ent said:


> I do not "know". But I do know it's a patchwork quilt using an image that's been around for quite some time.
> So I would give it about a 0.000025 percent chance of being real.
> 
> Otherwise we'd know its source without having to do a bunch of digging.


It's from https://boundingintocomics.com , but they don't state the source for the rumour.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 28, 2022)

Comic Book Guy-- I could have guessed. 🙄


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## Deimos (Oct 28, 2022)

Juneau... I think that , in general, what the article says is true. Skip the opinions and look at at what he says about the ratings.
The ratings are easy to verify .
And then there's this (which I have read elsewhere):

_And while some may feel justified in pointing to its respective 71/100 and 85% Fresh ratings from critics, these numbers are provably suspect thanks to* Amazon Studio Boss Jennifer Selke’s own admission that they were censoring reviews from critics who had “points of view that we wouldn’t support“*, which suggests an obvious slant in the sentiments communicated by those reviews which were actually published. _

I do think there will be a major "re-tool".


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## Ent (Oct 28, 2022)

There is an article on it in USINNEWS.com. 
Also called "DailyUSANEWS" whatever that is.

It is linked here: 
Rumor: Amazon To Retool ‘The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power’, Sideline​
Please note: *Click at your own risk*.
Neither I nor this site in any way confirms the accuracy of this information nor the safety of this click. (My own system did not crash but that's no guarantee.)

Also note: Everything I see (and it is mentioned a few 'elsewheres') are all calling this a RUMOR.
The cite above does show where the information comes from... you can judge the potential veracity for yourselves.

Frankly, with all the previously used pics they've slammed into it, it almost looks like just another bit of 'clever advertising' to me to try to generate more interest from the "negative perspective" side.

What better way to try to suck in those who are disappointed, than to offer them an olive branch along the way???
I'll say no more.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 28, 2022)

Ealdwyn said:


> Anybody know how true this is?
> 
> View attachment 16768


I think the font and poor grammar alone says that this isn't accurate or accredited information. 

'More Of A Failure Than They Could Have Been Anticipated'

It just isn't right. It would be "More of a failure than they could have anticipated" or "More of a failure than they could have been anticipating".

This is poorly done and written. I wouldn't believe it honestly.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 28, 2022)

Ealdwyn said:


> It's from https://boundingintocomics.com , but they don't state the source for the rumour.


They're...hit or miss. I'd give it a slightly lower than 50% accuracy.


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## Ent (Oct 28, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I wouldn't believe it honestly.


I concur personally, until I have far more evidence.




Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> It would be "More of a failure than they could have anticipated" or "More of a failure than they could have been anticipating".



This brings up a whole different discussion I have recently been reading and chatting with other editor types about..!

In short, "most journalistic outlets today have abandoned the concept of employing copy editors, considering them to be an unnecessary expense and drain on their revenue gain."

If you look carefully, you will see terribly presented titles and articles published everywhere these last few years, and it's getting worse. This has had a demonstrable impact on the "Editorial Profession" as an employee in addition to the declining quality.

So we can no longer rely on bad English as a marker.

One can easily see some yokel starting the thing with 'More Of A Failure Than They Could Have Anticipated', getting interrupted or having a chat with someone who made a suggestion in passing, decided to change it to "'More Of A Failure Than Had Been Anticipated':, and just tossed in extra words forgetting to delete the rest. (or vice versa.)

Writers are not known for their care in writing OR editing. Editors are not known for their ability to write creatively. It's a rare bird who combines the two practices. (Which explains why they're separate professions.)

All this to say I fear one of our old "checks for validity" can no longer be relied upon for things like this article.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 28, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I think the font and poor grammar alone says that this isn't accurate or accredited information.
> 
> 'More Of A Failure Than They Could Have Been Anticipated'
> 
> ...


A LOT of these fan-blogs need to work on their grammar.


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## Ent (Oct 28, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> They're...hit or miss. I'd give it a slightly lower than 50% accuracy.


Well sir Zehn, here we go...

I'll give it a 100% accuracy that a rumor has NOW been created, even if one wasn't before..!!!

As to the article I posted the link to, I've no idea whether the event the fellow they said started that part of "the rumor" really did. He may just be their fall guy.

But THEY have undoubtedly generated a rumor at the 100% accuracy level I fear.

Not that the "rumor" itself is accurate - but that there is in fact now a Rumor we need to contend with (or ignore).

And sadly, just as its 'infection' has spread to this site now as a Rumor, so it will be growing elsewhere and everywhere. Such is the nature of Rumors.
So we all sit and wait for 'truth'.
But then, were it not so there simply would be no "journalism". That's how it makes its money. Truth is not the issue. Sensationalism is.


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 28, 2022)

I have no comment on the accuracy and am only here to offer this opinion: I don't think there is any amount of retooling they can do at this point that would satisfy even half of the series' critics. As a member of many fandoms, I'm actually surprised (and not that happy) to find that the Tolkien/LOTR fans are even more unforgiving than fans of Star Wars or Marvel or other beloved works that have been hacked to oblivion for the sake of profit. Maybe I've just been blind, but I wasn't aware even Peter Jackson's trilogy was so poorly regarded by some. I thought it was universally loved! Shows how little I know. 

Anyway, either the RoP showrunners plod along with what they have (perhaps tweak what they can) and hope for the best, or scrap the entire thing altogether. The financial losses won't kill Amazon. 

Or they could, I dunno, go the way of "Lost" and say Galadriel was high on something and it was all just a dream.


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## Ent (Oct 28, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I'm actually surprised (and not that happy) to find that the Tolkien/LOTR fans are even more unforgiving


Indeed I too. I left every place I was but this one due to intolerance.
But then, as you can see from my "signature", I believe there's a great poison at work in the world today.
Sadly, it has seriously affected the ability of many to think and reason well.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 29, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I have no comment on the accuracy and am only here to offer this opinion: I don't think there is any amount of retooling they can do at this point that would satisfy even half of the series' critics.


I guess just shift to the Númenóreans sending a massive military force to humble Sauron and proceed more accurately?


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> As a member of many fandoms, I'm actually surprised (and not that happy) to find that the Tolkien/LOTR fans are even more unforgiving than fans of Star Wars or Marvel or other beloved works that have been hacked to oblivion for the sake of profit.


Just channelling our inner Christopher Tolkien 
To be fair, RoP is a level of butchery that's...quite beyond even The Last Jedi (and that's saying something). Some of it may also be they're supposed to be adapting a very specific story. Disney just threw out any kind of outline (written by Lucas no less) or novel for their awful Star Wars trilogy. For Marvel, I don't think anyone expected a straight adaptation since they've been going on for over 70 years.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Or they could, I dunno, go the way of "Lost" and say Galadriel was high on something and it was all just a dream.


lol Pull a Dallas, for those of us with knowledge of older pop culture.

Oof. Now the showrunners are talking about how they felt the Gwaith-i-Mírdain accepting Annatar was "unrealistic". So they changed it to...a random human handing them the idea? Also they felt the elves didn't have a good enough motivation to accept the idea of the rings? So they ratcheted up the stakes?


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 29, 2022)

Well-spoken about the grammatical errors, Ent. You are so right. It is very tragic, yet well-formed, classical, reading and writing are becoming very scarce to see, and as a result, the 'editors' and 'publishers' don't always get it right.

I had a friend who told me that English wasn't a good and beautiful language. I couldn't really argue with them, until I read Tolkien. English is a beautiful language, it's just that texting slang isn't the prettiest version of it.


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## d4rk3lf (Oct 30, 2022)

I believe the rumor is true.
Simply because lot's and lots of money is invested, and they wanted Rings of Power to be successful as Game of Thrones, and as we all know, it doesn't have even a fraction of popularity and quality in comparison to GOT.
Producers don't look kindly to stuff like that.
They don't want to invest money on something this risky.
Sure, they won't fire the showrunners publicly, nor admit that series is very bad, but internally, they know they have to do a lots of changes in order for series to appeal more to the audience.

However, (un)fortunately, I don't think series is salvageable, even with big changes.
They simply done so many critical mistakes, not only because of skipping the lore, but characters are very unlikable, and the events in the series have little sense.
Even if they do classic way of skipping the first season (it was Galadriel bad dream / nightmare), it would be pretty meh.

The best thing they can do (I know it will never happen) is that they scrap all this, apologize to the audience, purchase rights on the Silmarillion, and start all over again, and just do it properly.


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## Ealdwyn (Oct 30, 2022)

d4rk3lf said:


> The best thing they can do.... is that they.... purchase rights on the Silmarillion


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## d4rk3lf (Oct 30, 2022)

@Ealdwyn 

Yeah, I got your point, and I agree.  
Keep in mind that I meant.. ONLY if they are able (with new showrunners) to create some series worthy of Tolkien.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Oct 30, 2022)

I would actually be open to some of the stories in the Silmarillion becoming films. Turin Turambar, Beren and Luthien, Fall of Gondolin....

If done well, it would be quite amazing.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 30, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I would actually be open to some of the stories in the Silmarillion becoming films. Turin Turambar, Beren and Luthien, Fall of Gondolin....
> 
> If done well, it would be quite amazing.


It would be cool to see them visually.


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## Rōmānus (Oct 31, 2022)

Nothing they can do can fix this. It’s not related to the lore. I wonder how many people thought Galadriel was actually Sauron is disguise?


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 1, 2022)

Rōmānus said:


> Nothing they can do can fix this. It’s not related to the lore. I wonder how many people thought Galadriel was actually Sauron is disguise?


It would have made more sense to me.


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## Valandil (Nov 1, 2022)

Did I see somewhere correctly - or is this another rumor - that Season 2 will not be released until September, 2024? And initially, it seemed like they would be in a rush to get on to Season 2. If this is true, it would go hand-in-hand with this rumor.

Beginning of Season 2: Galadriel wakes up from a bad dream... And off we go!


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 1, 2022)

Valandil said:


> Did I see somewhere correctly - or is this another rumor - that Season 2 will not be released until September, 2024?


I know Game of Thrones sometimes took time to come out so it's possible. I don't see them erasing all of season 1 as it'd be confusing and frustrating to the audience so early into the show. They'll likely just course correct on the characterizations and realign the plot closer to how Tolkien wrote.


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## Ent (Nov 1, 2022)

This particular article seems to speak against the "rumor" about retooling, though I've not yet found confirmation that 2024 is season 2.
(I have also read that somewhere. Still looking for confirmation.)



How Rings Of Power Season 2 Will Be Impacted By Fan Response To Season 1


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## Ealdwyn (Nov 1, 2022)

The Ent said:


> This particular article seems to speak against the "rumor" about retooling, though I've not yet found confirmation that 2024 is season 2.
> (I have also read that somewhere. Still looking for confirmation.)
> 
> 
> ...


It references a Vanity Fair article [that I've no intention of reading all the way through - life's too short] which mentions a shock reveal in the finale that Halbrand was Sauron. I only saw two episodes, but I'd pretty much figured that out by the end of ep2.


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## d4rk3lf (Nov 1, 2022)

Ealdwyn said:


> It references a Vanity Fair article [that I've no intention of reading all the way through - life's too short] which mentions a shock reveal in the finale that Halbrand was Sauron. I only saw two episodes, but I'd pretty much figured that out by the end of ep2.


Yup! 
Fully agree. 

And I get impression they don't realize that it's not Tolkien lore that is most problematic here.
Before Tolkien lore, they should acquire some basic fundamentals on writing and storytelling.
(you need these fundamentals whenever you make series on Tolkien, or WW2, or comedy, or aliens, or dinosaurs... etc)


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 1, 2022)

d4rk3lf said:


> (you need these fundamentals whenever you make series on Tolkien, or WW2, or comedy, or aliens, or dinosaurs... etc)


Not understanding the fundamentals of writing, or the source material seems to be a rampant problem in media these days.


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## Reckall (Nov 7, 2022)

The source of that article is Chris Gore from Film Threat. He first broke out this rumor on Midnight's Edge.


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## Annatar (Nov 10, 2022)

> Comic Book Guy-- I could have guessed. 🙄
> View attachment 16771



Well, it is indeed the worst series ever.



This is now even scientifically confirmed.


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## Annatar (Nov 10, 2022)

There are a lot of rumors now about a reboot or secretly firing the showrunners.
That would all be very desirable, of course. And there are several YouTubers reporting about it, 90% of which had also experienced actual leaks beforehand that turned out to be true.
So that would actually be a good sign, but I still can't believe it, because it would bring too many and too blatant contradictions to the previous circumstances.
I think this series has been screwed up for good and can't be corrected by Amazon unless they apologize publicly to the fans. All of the previous people in charge would have to be officially fired. This is contradicted by the rumor that they want to wait for the Emmys, which in turn would only further prove that Amazon is only out to cash in. As a global corporation, this is somehow understandable, but they should be a bit smarter about it.
It would therefore be almost a miracle if a reboot and a complete replacement of the crew would happen. Jeff Bezos would have to put his foot down. If that should happen, then great respect. Then I'll buy from Amazon again. But this store is dead for me for now. I can understand why they wanted their own "Game of Thrones" and therefore used Tolkien.
However, it is absolutely irritating and disturbing to me that there is obviously no functioning quality control at Amazon to prevent such a miserable, amateurish and bumbling mess from going into production, fabricated by people who very, very obviously despise and/or have not understood the original material.
In any case, the times are over when you can still get away with such filth. Not only from a Tolkien book perspective, but also otherwise the writing is simply below average, embarassing and very cringe.


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## Ealdwyn (Nov 11, 2022)

I can't help thinking - and I know some folks here will shoot me down for it - that it's a shame PJ was not involved.

Cons:
PJ fanfic
character assassination
fabricated cross-species romance
- but all this is no worse than the showrunners of RoP have done

Pros:
experienced filmmaker
has actually read the books
can tell a coherent story
high production values

I've no idea how much LotR and TH movies cost, but I'm pretty sure that PJ could do a lot with a budget of $1billion


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## Ent (Nov 11, 2022)

Annatar said:


> they want to wait for the Emmys


Please enlighten the Ent here...
Why would they want to wait for the Emmys? Does someone think there's enough merit in the show to 'win' anything?
Even in its own category I'm sure there's been better within the time frame the Emmys will consider.

If not, or if in fact they are awarded something, the state of the industry in that genre is in worse shape than I thought, and it will just lend credence to the widely held opinion that the whole thing is corrupt.

I can't think of a single category there would be any hope in. Nor that any award given would do more than further engage the populace in a negative way.

But then, maybe they're just so out of touch they still don't grasp what's happened? 

It's not the most terrible ever done. But worthy of accolade? Umnhhh... makes my limbs quake.

What am I missing?


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## Oxford Old One (Nov 11, 2022)

Riffing on a well-loved story is always risky but it can work. I thought PJ's version of LotR worked well - it updated elements (Aragorn carrying a broken sword around until 'the right time') and dropped others (Tom Bombadil) but still preserved the underlying wonder of the story. I hated PJ's version of the Hobbit because it did the opposite (endless CGI action sequences in particular).
I appreciate that RoP needs to shorten the sequence of events in 2nd age, but so many things don't ring (no pun intended) true. Mithril being discovered and it turns out to be the cure for Elven tree cancer. Sauron's great deception being ... suggesting that they use an alloy to help forge the rings. Galadriel being an action figure whose troops, on summiting an ice cliff, suggest that they all go back. The might of Numenor being a bunch of peasants conscripted at the last moment. 
It's not all bad - I particularly liked the idea of the Southlands being an idyllic human realm, worth fighting for... which turns out to be Mordor. I liked the inter-species tension, with elves being seen as ever-lasting prison wardens by the humans living there. But I ended up viewing the RoP as a massive disappointment.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 11, 2022)

Oxford Old One said:


> Riffing on a well-loved story is always risky but it can work. I thought PJ's version of LotR worked well - it updated elements (Aragorn carrying a broken sword around until 'the right time') and dropped others (Tom Bombadil) but still preserved the underlying wonder of the story.


Well said. I always have to remind myself that on their own the books are unfilmable. I was glad that PJ seemed to stay true with the message being shared, and in a tangible way he highlighted what mattered most.


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