# Where were the Dwarves during the War of the Ring?



## Sengir Buendia

I'm really shocked by the dwarves indifference with the war of the ring and the fate of ME. After all they were invited to the council, being one of the most important free people in ME, which would suffer its fate and were bound to the ring's fate then. Sending Gimli doesn't represent ANYTHING (what are 40 kills after all in such a war?).

Elves were wise, and knew they had no place in that land anymore, nor any obligation with its people (read men), but obviously because they had a way out, a backdoor exit to their safe beautiful perfect immortal haven. I know the context is much more elaborate, as it was the test for men to defeat Sauron then, and that the time of the elves in ME had ended.

What about dwarves? They had no Valinor to safe exit. They belonged to ME then (or I miss something, haven't read the Sil yet...). Had men been defeated Sauron would wash over ME, dwarves included. Why, for Eru's sake, didn't they send their armies to battle? I vaguely remember having read somewhere they were decadent at the time, but anyway, who wasn't? Even ents, trees, eagles and elves (LOTR appendices, after Sauron's fall) gave their contribution to the alliance. Besides, dwarves were warriors from their conception, I imagine (if not, mighty warriors they became then). The battle of five armies and the battle in Moria show their great potential in the battlefield and their courage.

After all, are dwarves that selfish and haughty that they wouldn't take their role in defending their land, only because the war hadn't reached Erebor yet? Or stupid enough not to foresee what would happen with Sauron's rise??
Unless someone brings to light a plausible reason (something I might have missed) for that action, I'll see it as pure and clear COWARDICE.


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## Maeglin

Welcome to the forums Senguir.  

The Dwarves were not cowards at all. They only sent Gimli and Gloin to the Council because they could not spare any more of their people at the time, for they do not have a great population to begin with, and war was knocking on their door. The Dwarves _did_ do their part in the War of the Ring, though from their own land. Just as Gondor was under siege and at the battle of the Pelennor Fields, Sauron's armies were simultaneously attacking the Lonely Mountain and Dale, so the Dwarves were busy fighting a war side by side with the men of the north against the armies of Mordor and Rhun(allied with Mordor), therefore, they could not send anyone south to aid Gondor. 
The same is true for the elves,who you say had no obligation to fight anymore, but they did. It is their job to keep the land safe as long as they are their, and the same goes for dwarves and men. The elves, though they had an escape route, fought wars with Sauron as well. At the same time Gondor and the Lonely Mountain were attacked, so also were the woodland realms of the Elves in Mirkwood and Lothlorien, so they could not bring any more aid either. 
No one was a coward in the War of the Ring, each had their own wars to fight with Mordor, and all had equal honor and credit for the deeds done by them.  


P.S. I'm not sure if the Lonely Mountain and Lorien were attacked at the time of the Battle of the Pelennor fields or the Battle at the Morranon, I always get confused about which one it was, one of the wiser members will correct me if I told you wrong by saying it happened simultaneously with the Battle of the Pelennor.


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## Gil-Galad

I think that it will right if I say that thank to the Dwarves and Men who fought near the Lonely Mountain,saved the Shire and western parts of ME.
In this battle even Dain Ironfoot fought and died,although he was very old at that time.


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## Inderjit S

The Dwarves were not ‘invited’ to the council, since there was no knowledge of the council beforehand. Gloin and Gimli (a few others may have came and not been present at the council) because of the messenger of Sauron asking for the whereabouts of Hobbits and because of the war that was brewing on their borders. (The Easterlings had begun to show feints of attack. There were also other threats, as Legolas tells the council, evil things were coming back in increased numbers after the brief respite that came as a result of the fall of Smaug, the driving out of Sauron from Dol Guldur (which remained occupied and under the control of Khamûl) and the Battle of the Five Armies.)
I see no difference in this from Legolas being sent to tell them of the escape of Sméagol-Gollum and Boromir’s purpose to ask about his and Faramir’s dreams and their significance. All were unwittingly sent at the right time, as Elrond comments.

Elves, still loved M-E and cared for it. Though some were leaving (As Sam states) and Gildor tells Frodo that M-E’s problems were no longer his concern Elrond claims that the Elves had fled and watched too often and needed to do something to stop Sauron. The Sylvan Elves (Lothlórien, Mirkwood) and other Elves (Maybe some Ñoldor and Sindar) who wanted to remain in Middle-Earth would want the best for it. Legolas, for example, showed no sign of leaving until he received the cryptic message from Galadriel and saw the see when the Rangers and Dead-Men of Dunharrow defeated the Corsairs of Umbar. We don’t know if Thranduil ever leaves, but he and his father were part of a group of Iathrim Sindar who wanted to remain in M-E and retain the simple lives of the Elves. 

The Dwarves were involved in Battles of their own. When Gimli wishes for some of his kinsfolk to be with him at Helm’s Deep, Legolas tells him that they have a battle on their hands at home. The Dwarves under Dáin Ironfoot II and Men of Dale under Brand met a host of Easterlings across the River Carnen but they were driven back to Erebor (Dáin and Brand were killed, Dáin before the gates of Erebor) and they were there besieged until news of the fall of Sauron came to the Easterlings and they were dismayed and routed by the Dwarves.

Lothlórien was attacked three times, on March 11th, march 15th (Day of Battle of Pellenor Fields) (Thranduil attacked on same day) dale and Erebor’s battle with the Easterlings was on the 17th and the last assault on Lothlórien was on the 22nd . The enemy is driven from Erebor on the 27th of March and the Battle outside the Black Gate is on the 25th.


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## Sengir Buendia

Oh!
Seems this thread has been a huge mistake and unfair to the snobbish (though noble) dwarves... At the time I wrote the thread, I remembered vaguely having read in the appendices those events you two describe, but I had no LOTR at hands to check! Besides I had just finished the hobbit again that day and were reflecting about the nature of dwarves and their role in ME history...

Tolkien put it very wisely that Sauron would not attack at only one front, which would be a basic war strategy fault, and those parallel battles at the east, Lothlorien and Mirkwood just conttribute to make the war of the ring even more realist and fascinating.

Thanks for the patience and forgive the ignorance of this newbie. Gonna be more careful when opening threads.


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## Lantarion

Don't worry about it! It was an excellent topic, in fact; some things arose of which I hadn't known before, and I'm supposed to be a 'veteran'!! 
Welcome to the forum Sengir, you're off to a great start.


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## Flammifer

Yes, welcome Sengir! 

If you want the quotes that go with Inder's post here they are:



> _The Lord of the Rings Appendices, Appendix B, "The Tale of Years, The Great Years."_
> 
> After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him, but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three time Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt ther was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.
> 
> In the North also there had been war and evil. The realm of Thranduil was invaded, and there was long battle under the trees and great ruin of fire; but in the end Thranduil had the victory. And on the day of the New Year of the Elves, Celeborn and Thranduil met in the midst of the forest; and they re-named Mirkwood _Eryn Lasgalen_, the Wood of the Greenleaves. Thranduil took all the norther region as far as the mountains that rise in the forest for his realm; and Celeborn took all the southern wood below the Narrows, and named it East Lórien; all the wide forest between was given to the Beornings and the Woodmen. But after the passing of Galadriel in a few years Celeborn grew weary of his realm and went to Imladris to dwell with the sons of Elrond. In the Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled, but in Lorien there lingered sadly only a few of its former people, and there was no longer light or song in Caras Galadhon.
> 
> At the same time as the great armies besieged Minas Tirith a host of the allies of Sauron that had long threatened the borders of King Brand crossed the River Carnen, and Brand was driven back to Dale. *There he had the aid of the Dwarves of Erebor*; and there was a great battle at the Mountain's feet. It lasted three days, but in the end both King Brand and King Dáin Ironfoot were slain, and the Easterlings had the victory. But they could not take the Gate, and many, both Dwarves and Men, took refuge in Erebor, and there withstood a siege.
> 
> When news came of the great victories in the South, then Sauron's northern army was filled with dismay; and the besieged came forth and routed them, and the remnant fled into the East and troubled Dale no more. Then Bard II, Brand's son, became King Dale, and Thorin III Stonehelm, Dáin's son, became King under the Mountain. They sent their ambassadors to the crowning of King Elessar; and their realms remained ever after, as long as they lasted, in friendship with Gondor; and they were under the crown and protection of the King of the West.



So there you go!



Inderjit S said:


> The Dwarves were not ‘invited’ to the council, since there was no knowledge of the council beforehand. Gloin and Gimli (a few others may have came and not been present at the council) because of the messenger of Sauron asking for the whereabouts of Hobbits and because of the war that was brewing on their borders. (The Easterlings had begun to show feints of attack. There were also other threats, as Legolas tells the council, evil things were coming back in increased numbers after the brief respite that came as a result of the fall of Smaug, the driving out of Sauron from Dol Guldur (which remained occupied and under the control of Khamûl) and the Battle of the Five Armies.)
> I see no difference in this from Legolas being sent to tell them of the escape of Sméagol-Gollum and Boromir’s purpose to ask about his and Faramir’s dreams and their significance. All were unwittingly sent at the right time, as Elrond comments.



Yep. Here you go:



> _The Lords of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, "The Council of Elrond_
> 
> 'That is the purpose for which you are called hither. Called, I say, though I have not called you to me, strangers from distant lands. You have come and are here met, in the very nick of time, by chance as it may seem. Yet it is not so. Believe rather that it is so ordered that we, who sit here, and none others, must now find counsel for the peril of the world.


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