# What is a black numenorian??



## Woo (Feb 3, 2004)

Just wondering!
what is a black numenorian?
Why are they black do they have actual black skin or is the black meant to simbolize their personality or sect that they belong to?
I assumed that everyone in the north of middle earth was white and humans of darker skin tones lived in the south and far east of middle earth?
Because to be a numenorian you obviously had to have helped in the war of wrath to gain access for you to go to the island of numenor or just simply migrate there.
And at that time it seems prudent for me to assume that all humans at that time in middle earth were white so how did a normal numenorian become a black numenorian?
Please can some enlighten me on this matter?


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## Baruk Khazad! (Feb 3, 2004)

Black Numenorians are now the people who inhabit Harad and Umbar.
The City of Corsairs had been built by Gondorians but later on, overrun by the Black Numenorians.

As far as I know, the Black Numenorians had betrayed Numenor and the King in the Downfall of Numenor, and settled in Harad.


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## Woo (Feb 3, 2004)

that still has not answered my question, why are they black


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## krash8765 (Feb 3, 2004)

no no no your all mixed up there not actually black in skin color, exept if they haradrim but a black numenorian represents an evil human who opposes the faithful numenorians who inhabit gondor.


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## Starflower (Feb 4, 2004)

they were called 'black', in reference of them being 'evil', not black in skincolor. They would have been descendants of the numenoreans who first settled in Middle-earth in the Second Age. They eventually fell into evil practices and became know as the Black Numenoreans. THe Corsairs of Umbar were descendants of these men.


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## Inderjit S (Feb 4, 2004)

The Corsairs eventually mixed with the indeginous Haradrim population.

They were also the Numenoreans who followed Sauron when he came to Numenor and went to M-E to establish hegemony in M-E. A lot of them fought in the Last Alliance and later they aided the upsurge under Castamir captain of the ships at Pelargir against Eldacar. 

At the time though, Umbar was under Gondor's rule.Gondor may have tried to ally herself more closely with their kinsfolk. Queen Beruthiel a Black Numenorean married a Gondorian king.


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## Flammifer (Feb 4, 2004)

Inderjit S said:


> At the time though, Umbar was under Gondor's rule.Gondor may have tried to ally herself more closely with their kinsfolk. Queen Beruthiel a Black Numenorean married a Gondorian king.



And we know how much trouble _that_ caused! She was really bloody evil...perhaps this is a good indication of how evil the Black Numenoreans are. Actually maybe some people don't know who she was...



> _From here:_ http://tolkien.slimy.com/tlfaq/DwarfEnemyMisc.html#Beruthiel
> 
> She was the wife of King Tarannon of Gondor (Third Age 830-913), and was described as "nefarious, solitary, and loveless" (Tarannon's childlessness was mentioned without explanation in the annals). "She had nine black cats and one white, her slaves, with whom she conversed, or read their memories, setting them to discover all the dark secrets of Gondor,... setting the white cat to spy upon the black, and tormenting them. No man in Gondor dared touch them; all were afraid of them, and cursed when they saw them pass." Her eventual fate was to be set adrift in a boat with her cats: "The ship was last seen flying past Umbar under a sickle moon, with a cat at the masthead and another as a figure-head on the prow." It is also told that "her name was erased from the Book of the Kings (`but the memory of men is not wholly shut in books, and the cats of Queen Beruthiel never passed wholly out of men's speech')." (UT, pp 401-402)


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## Gil-Galad (Feb 4, 2004)

Well,I believe we can say that these Numenoreans were called black with a purpose.
They betrayed the Good.If we can say that The White Tree was a symbol of the good in the Numenoreans,then probably The Black color will symbolize the the evil.These Numenoreans followed Sauron and betrayred the Valar and all principles of Good.
Tolkien probably used the Black color as a simple symbol of their souls and the darkness that took them,of the evil that was in these Numenoreans.


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## Arvedui (Feb 4, 2004)

Tolkien constantly uses white as the colour of Good, and black as the colour of Evil, doesn't he?
I really can't think of any examples at the moment, when black has got something to do with Good.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 4, 2004)

> I really can't think of any examples at the moment, when black has got something to do with Good.





> _The Lord of the Rings; Minas Tirith_
> The Guards of the gate were robed in black, and their helms were of strange shape, high-crowned, with long cheek-guards close-fitting to the face, and above the cheek-guards were set the white wings of sea-birds; but the helms gleamed with a flame of silver, for they were indeed wrought of _mithril_, heirlooms from the glory of old days. Upon the black surcoats were embroidered in white a tree blossoming like snow beneath a silver crown and many-pointed stars. This was the livery of the heirs of Elendil, and none wore it now in all Gondor, save the Guards of the Citadel before the Court of the Fountain where the White Tree once had grown.





> _The Lord of the Rings; Minas Tirith_
> Suddenly Pippin was reminded of the hewn rocks of Argonath, and awe fell on him, as he looked down that avenue of kings long dead. At the far end upon a dais of many steps was set a high throne under a canopy of marble shaped like a crowned helm; behind it was carved upon the wall and set with gems an image of a tree in flower. But the throne was empty. At the foot of the dais, upon the lowest step which was broad and deep, there was a stone chair, black and unadorned, and on it sat an old man gazing at his lap. In his hand was a white rod with a golden knob. He did not look up. Solemnly they paced the long floor towards him, until they stood three paces from his footstool. Then Gandalf spoke.


Also, Turin Turambar was at one time called 'the Black Sword'.

There ya go, Arv, though you might call this clutching at straws.


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## Arvedui (Feb 4, 2004)

I was waiting for someone to bring Túrin along... Was the black Sword really a Good thing?

Túrin was probably basically good, but his deeds turned evil. The Sword does not end on the good side in my calculations.
I could also argue that there was a reason for Tolkien describing the throne of the Stewards as black. Denethor does not come out of it in a positive light. It would be the same with Orthanc, which was built by the Númenoreans originally and therefore something that should have been "good," but that through the designs of Saruman ended as something negative.

I admit that I didn't think of the livery of Gondor, though. One point for you!


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 4, 2004)

Well, the Black Sword was feared by the enemy, so that's gotta count for something. Any fell (as in 'evil') deeds Turin committed were a result of Morgoth's curse. Keep in mind that he also eliminated one of Morgoth's greatest servants - Glaurung, and he slew him with the _black _sword.

I'm not sure Tolkien would have made the chair of the stewards black only on account of one steward gone mad (not 'evil'). I would say the same about the usage of the colour black in the depiction of Orthanc. It is too simple a device somehow - black must have some other meaning beyond the simple 'evil'.


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