# Was celebrimbor among those who fought in the first age wars?



## Turin_Turambar (Nov 11, 2022)

In the book called A Dictionary of Tolkien and in the lotr.fandom wiki it says that celebrimbor fought in the first age wars. My question is, is this possible? Was celebrimbor mature enough to fight during the wars of beleriand?


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## Elthir (Nov 11, 2022)

Celebrimbor doesn't actually appear in JRR Tolkien's _Quenta Silmarillion_. Christopher Tolkien edited him in there, based on a *note* from JRRT [see the contents of *the note* below].

A little *external* history:

Celebrimbor was a Jewel Smith of Gondolin until Tolkien changed his mind and re-imagined him as a descendant of Feanor. Tolkien then* published* that Celebrimbor was a descendant of Feanor in the *second edition* of _The Lord of the Rings_ (1966) . . .

. . . *then (it appears) Tolkien forgot* that he'd already published Celebrimbor as a descendant of Feanor, or in any case made him a Telerin Elf who accompanied Celeborn into exile [from Aman!].
And in yet another late text, Tolkien made Celebrimbor into "a Sinda who claimed descent from 
Daeron" [_Of Dwarves and Men_].

*Cough*. What was the question? Oh yes.

Again, since Tolkien himself published that Celebrimbor was a descendant of Feanor, I hold him to that idea, and according to his own commentary, _even Christopher Tolkien thinks that his father would have felt bound by this as well_ (that is, had his father remembered).

So Feanorean it is!

* The note*: JRRT wrote that *0)* though a son of Curufin and inheriting his skills, Celebrimbor was an Elf
of wholly different temper *1)* during his dwelling in Nargothrond Celebrimbor grew to love Finrod *2) *Celebrimbor was aghast at the behaviour of his father Curufin, and so, he would not go with him, and *3)* that later he became a friend of Celeborn and Galadriel.

The note also relates that *4)* Celebrimbor's mother had refused to take part in the Rebellion of Feanor, and had remained in Aman with Finarfin's folk, so it appears at least, that Celebrimbor was born in Aman.

🐾


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 11, 2022)

Interesting backstory, Elthir! I can always count on your precise and colorful (yes, literally you use many colors) answers!


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## Elthir (Nov 12, 2022)

*T**hank**s **!

*


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 12, 2022)

Elthir said:


> Celebrimbor doesn't actually appear in JRR Tolkien's _Quenta Silmarillion_. Christopher Tolkien edited him in there, based on a *note* from JRRT [see the contents of *the note* below].
> 
> A little *external* history:
> 
> ...


...FASCINATING. I love obscure, and discarded or briefly considered ideas. How'd he have gotten Lord over a group of Jewelsmiths that were mostly Noldor? Or as skilled as any of them? The Noldor were supposed to be master smiths.


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## Elthir (Nov 12, 2022)

Maybe I should add that, in the discarded conception wherein Celebrimbor was a Jewel Smith of Gondolin, he was a Noldorin craftsman -- so, for examples, we have Noldorin artificer in Gondolin --
then Feanorean (published in the 1960s) -- then Teler in Aman (late text) -- or Sinda who claimed descent from Daeron (another late text)!

Tolkien Published: Feanorean, Lord of Eregion (Appendix B, and so on, in _The Lord of the Rings_)

Christopher Tolkien published (1977 Silmarillion): *"In that time Celebrimbor son of Curufin repudiated the deeds of his father, and remained in Nargothrond; yet Huan followed still the horse of Celegorm his master."*

🐾


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 12, 2022)

Elthir said:


> Maybe I should add that, in the discarded conception wherein Celebrimbor was a Jewel Smith of Gondolin, he was a Noldorin craftsman -- so, for examples, we have Noldorin artificer in Gondolin --
> then Feanorean (published in the 1960s) -- then Teler in Aman (late text) -- or Sinda who claimed descent from Daeron (another late text)!
> 
> Tolkien Published: Feanorean, Lord of Eregion (Appendix B, and so on, in _The Lord of the Rings_)
> ...


Was he not the lord of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain as a Teler or Sinda?


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## Elthir (Nov 12, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Was he not the lord of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain as a Teler or Sinda?



Unless I missed something, these two late texts don't say; but of course he would have to be the *"greatest of their craftsmen"* (the craftsmen of Hollin), Lord of Eregion, and the maker of the Three, according to _The Lord of the Rings_ [well, and a descendant of Feanor anyway].

I can't recall if anything in _The Lord of the Rings_ itself specifically names him Lord of the Mírdain 

The "descent from Daeron" mention is pretty brief. In the "Teler of Aman" note, it's said that the
Teleri were renowned as silver-smiths, and that Celebrimbor, heroic defender of Hollin, was a
great silver-smith who went to Eregion attracted by rumours of Moria Silver, which *he* named
_mithril_.

And:

*"In the working of this he became a rival of the Dwarves, or rather an equal, for there was great friendship between the Dwarves of Moria and Celebrimbor, and they shared their skills and craft secrets. In the same way Tegilbor was used for one skilled in calligraphy . . ."*

🐾


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