# Why didn't the Ring draw Smaug to Bilbo?



## BalrogRingDestroyer (Mar 14, 2022)

I know this may sound silly, but it does have some precedent. Apparently the Ring can draw bad creatures to the bearer, as it did the Watcher in the Water to Frodo. One of the group, possibly Gandalf, can't remember, even remarks as much. I also think it may have drawn the Balrog to them in Moria. (That may have been stated as well.) It may have also drawn Shelob to Frodo. (Though this one wasn't stated.)

Granted, I don't think it draws EVERY evil being or creature, as it didn't alert the big spiders (mere offspring of Shelob) to Bilbo nor did it draw Orcs to Sam, despite him wearing it right into Mordor itself into an orc-occupied tower.

So if it can draw Balrogs, the Watcher in the Water, and possibly Shelob to Frodo, why didn't it draw a more power and malevolent being like Smaug to Bilbo when he wore the Ring in The Hobbit?


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## Umbralmantle (Mar 14, 2022)

I would say that given that the race of dragon's were the lieutenants of Morgoth similar to Sauron, the ring didn't want to fall in to the hands of something on par with Sauron. The ring is part of Sauron not it's own entity so maybe it doesn't have the power to dominate a dragon?



Umbralmantle said:


> I would say that given that the race of dragon's were the lieutenants of Morgoth similar to Sauron, the ring didn't want to fall in to the hands of something on par with Sauron. The ring is part of Sauron not it's own entity so maybe it doesn't have the power to dominate a dragon?


As a note, the ring was made to dominate the mortal races of men, dwarves, and elves. It wasn't created to dominate all life. Even though the movie says it was.


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## BalrogRingDestroyer (Mar 15, 2022)

It don't mean dominate a dragon (hadn't even thought of that, but don't think a mere Hobbit, even the Bullroarer, could pull off dominating a dragon, even a Third Age one like Smaug, even with the One Ring. 

I meant allure it toward Bilbo. The Watcher in the Water wasn't being dominated by Frodo, and neither was the Balrog, but the Ring seemed to bring them toward him, as though both beings could sense it or something.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Mar 15, 2022)

This falls into the category of attempting to reconcile The Hobbit with The Lord of the Rings-- an interesting exercise in itself, but something even Tolkien found impossible.

The truth is, Bilbo in The Hobbit wasn't carrying The One Ring to Rule Them All, but merely a magic ring that made you invisible.


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## Aldarion (Mar 15, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> This falls into the category of attempting to reconcile The Hobbit with The Lord of the Rings-- an interesting exercise in itself, but something even Tolkien found impossible.
> 
> The truth is, Bilbo in The Hobbit wasn't carrying The One Ring to Rule Them All, but merely a magic ring that made you invisible.


While this is true, I do not think this particular case is unexplainable.

One Ring has no effect on Shelob. In fact, the only times we see the Ring having an effect are creatures dominated by Sauron's will - Nazgul and Orcs of Cirith Ungol - or when Ring itself decides "oh, a new fool I can dominate". A dragon is not a creature dominated by Sauron, nor it is a mortal whom One Ring could dominate. So I do not think Smaug will have noticed a difference between One Ring and any random Ring of Power.


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## Uminya (Mar 15, 2022)

We have to contend, of course, with the fact that Tolkien didn't yet intend for Bilbo's ring to be the Great Enemy's ring when he wrote the Hobbit. That said, as others have mentioned, Smaug is an entirely different creature in comparison with elves, men, hobbits, or dwarves; while any of those could be twisted to restore the ring to its true owner, it is more likely that it would infuse Smaug with the will and means to dominate in competition with Sauron. I don't believe Tolkien ever wrote about any effect that the rings of power might have on Dragons, not even the dwarven ring that was part of Scatha's hoard, so it's pure conjecture how one might interact with a ring (or a Silmaril, for that matter).


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## Yanus (Apr 1, 2022)

One can only speculate, that it would be impractical if ring would try to dominate a Dragon. I mean, how would he wear it? If course it can dominate creatures just by mere presence, but if we take into account that Bilbo had it for 60 years and has not fallen under his power, a strong willed creatures like Dragons could possibly have it for centuries without being affected by it's power.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 3, 2022)

Shelob is something of a special case:

_Little she knew of or cared for towers, or rings, or anything devised by mind or hand, who only desired death for all others, mind and body. . ._

She, like her First Age mother, is the personification of nihilism, as Melkor and Sauron are personifications of egotism.

As for dragons, Gandalf tells Frodo "Seven the Dwarf-kings possessed, but three he has recovered, and the others _the dragons have consumed _." An enigmatic and tantalizing statement, if we're trying to understand the relationship between rings-- especially the "Great Rings, the Rings of Power" -- and dragons.


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## Aldarion (Apr 3, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Shelob is something of a special case:
> 
> _Little she knew of or cared for towers, or rings, or anything devised by mind or hand, who only desired death for all others, mind and body. . ._
> 
> ...


I always figured that "consumed" means the rings were destroyed by dragon fire, since Gandalf points out on the Council that no dragon could destroy the One Ring - implying that some other Rings of Power had been outright melted by dragonfire.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 3, 2022)

It's an ambiguous term, for sure; it could mean "swallowed", or simply "burned up".

Although the former could result in the latter. 😀


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## Aldarion (Apr 3, 2022)

And now I have an image of Rings of Power salad with sauce...


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 3, 2022)




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## Persephone (Apr 5, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> View attachment 12570


THESE LOOK GOOD ...


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## Melkor (Apr 6, 2022)

Dragon is for the one ring quite useless. He would add it to its treasurehold and lay upon it for decades, hundreds of years, milenia... One ring want to return to its master, not lay in gold treasure.


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## grendel (Apr 6, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> It's an ambiguous term, for sure; it could mean "swallowed", or simply "burned up".


This too shall pass....


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 6, 2022)

OK, now I know what image will come to mind, next time I hear about "a lump of gold". 😖


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## Olorgando (Apr 7, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> OK, now I know what image will come to mind, next time I hear about "a lump of gold". 😖


Oh, help! Now you've dredged up *really* ancient memories of mine, going back to the mid-1960's and a bit earlier ...
My parents and I were living in Bombay (as it was called then) from late 1959 to early 1966. Just before I entered 1st grade (1962) the German school of Bombay opened. We had school outings of various kinds over the years, which involved walking of various distances at times. A warning call known to all about where not to step on the sidewalk was "Hundegold" - dog's "gold" ... 😬


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## BalrogRingDestroyer (May 10, 2022)

Aldarion said:


> While this is true, I do not think this particular case is unexplainable.
> 
> One Ring has no effect on Shelob. In fact, the only times we see the Ring having an effect are creatures dominated by Sauron's will - Nazgul and Orcs of Cirith Ungol - or when Ring itself decides "oh, a new fool I can dominate". A dragon is not a creature dominated by Sauron, nor it is a mortal whom One Ring could dominate. So I do not think Smaug will have noticed a difference between One Ring and any random Ring of Power.


Not true, the Watcher in the Water likely was just an old evil creature like Old Man Willow that really wasn't Sauron-aligned, yet one of the Fellowship members, either Aragorn or Gandalf I believe, remarked how the thing seemed to be going right for Frodo, who had the Ring. I think there was a similar argument about the Ring drawing the Balrog to them. 

You're right, though, Shelob seemed to just smell them rather than be drawn by the Ring. However, Ungoliant, Shelob's mother, wanted to devour the Silmarils rather than use their power and was peeved at Melkor when he reneged on what he'd promised her or what she had assumed he'd promised her. Thus, Shelob may not really have cared for the Ring either, other than perhaps as, at most, something else to eat. The Ring also seemed to have no effect, save invisibility, as far as her children (which I think the book said were illegitimate children too) in the forest that Bilbo fought, wearing the Ring too.



Aldarion said:


> I always figured that "consumed" means the rings were destroyed by dragon fire, since Gandalf points out on the Council that no dragon could destroy the One Ring - implying that some other Rings of Power had been outright melted by dragonfire.


The Dwarven Rings of Power had, or some of them. Others were taken by Sauron. The last one to be taken was Thorin's father's ring.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 9, 2022)

In terms of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, they were very different. As we know, the One Ring first appeared in The Hobbit when Bilbo came upon the ring in Gollum's domain, yet I don't think the full idea of the One Ring we all hear about in The Lord of the Rings had fully developed. I often say that the One Ring deceived even the reader, and deceived Tolkien, as in the case of The Hobbit the ring seems to have a very good power. It helps Bilbo and company, and the reader might even come to like the ring and enjoy very much what it does for Bilbo. Notice this, I say the ring. Not capitalized. The One Ring we hear about in The Lord of the Rings, while the same ring as before, has taken on a completely different effect and meaning. In The Hobbit, one might be led to believe that the ring is a force for good, a trinket of power that comes in handy right when you need it. Of course, you might also feel a bit hesitant towards it because Bilbo hid its power, but we certainly don't get the full truth about its crucial role and terrible Evil until The Lord of the Rings. 

The One Ring in The Lord of the Rings, is drastically different. Here is both an external and internal power. The will to corrupt and the power to destroy, this Ring can't be taken so lightly. In the beginning of the book, reading about the ring Bilbo sets in an envelope, or tosses in the air, we might think nothing of it. We might think that it is the same ring as before, and that it is very generous of him to give it to Frodo. But it isn't till later on, in the Bag End sequence between Gandalf and Frodo that we really realize the power and Evil of this One Ring. 

I don't think Tolkien had everything planned out, I think he changed things as he went, and as was often his custom, he expanded what things he had already written. Or, if he did know what the ring would become, he might have kept that in the back of his mind, not wanting to spoil the story for the reader, and quite enjoying deceiving readers of The Hobbit by the ring, just as the ring deceived Bilbo. 

As for creatures of Evil being drawn to it, Smaug would not have realized what the ring was, yet I don't think. Smaug would have seen the ring much like Bilbo saw it, because the ring had not yet revealed itself as the Ring. We must remember that Sauron forged this Ring and within it was his very malice and spirit. Therefore, Sauron would be able to conceal the true identity of the Ring, under the guise of a simple ring. We also do not find out about the Elvish inscription on the Ring until The Lord of the Rings, and I think the reason for that is because Sauron kept it hidden. 

When Shelob, and the Watcher and the Water see the Ring, they know what it is because Sauron has revealed it. He doesn't need to keep it hidden anymore, and he doesn't. So yes, I completely agree that Old Man Willow, Shelob, the Balrog, and the Watcher in the Water, fully know that Frodo was bearing it, and why and that is the precise reason that they seem to attack Frodo specifically. I think they were able to sense the Evil since Sauron revealed it, just as the elves of Lorien are able to sense that Frodo bears great Evil towards them and hesitate to allow him into Lorien. 

Thank you for this post. I appreciated looking over all the different answers, this is a great question that can be answered more than one way.


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## Ent (Jul 1, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> In terms of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, they were very different. As we know, the One Ring first appeared in The Hobbit when Bilbo came upon the ring in Gollum's domain, yet I don't think the full idea of the One Ring we all hear about in The Lord of the Rings had fully developed. I often say that the One Ring deceived even the reader, and deceived Tolkien, as in the case of The Hobbit the ring seems to have a very good power. It helps Bilbo and company, and the reader might even come to like the ring and enjoy very much what it does for Bilbo. Notice this, I say the ring. Not capitalized. The One Ring we hear about in The Lord of the Rings, while the same ring as before, has taken on a completely different effect and meaning. In The Hobbit, one might be led to believe that the ring is a force for good, a trinket of power that comes in handy right when you need it. Of course, you might also feel a bit hesitant towards it because Bilbo hid its power, but we certainly don't get the full truth about its crucial role and terrible Evil until The Lord of the Rings.
> 
> The One Ring in The Lord of the Rings, is drastically different. Here is both an external and internal power. The will to corrupt and the power to destroy, this Ring can't be taken so lightly. In the beginning of the book, reading about the ring Bilbo sets in an envelope, or tosses in the air, we might think nothing of it. We might think that it is the same ring as before, and that it is very generous of him to give it to Frodo. But it isn't till later on, in the Bag End sequence between Gandalf and Frodo that we really realize the power and Evil of this One Ring.
> 
> ...


Indeed. We must remember that "the ring was trying to return to its master". And that "a great deal of Sauron's power was put into the ring." So much so that at its destruction, Sauron became, essentially, nothingness.
Therefore, the ring of itself made many of its own 'decisions' as it were...who it would choose, how it would return, etc. 
In such a case, the range for our speculation increases exponentially with no clear answer possible. 

As Tolkien himself once responded when he was asked a particular recurring question in an interview - one for whcih there is no reasonable answer other than pure speculation - according to the reporter, his response to the question and questioner, after some thought, was simply - "shut up". (He was quite tired of that particular question..!!)


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 1, 2022)

I take it you're referring to this. 😆









Is this video response by "J.R.R Tolkien" response on Eagles flying ring to mordor authentic?


Found it on YouTube. But Tolkien usually has a different voice than this, so unsure whether its the same one?




www.thetolkienforum.com


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## Ent (Jul 1, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I take it you're referring to this. 😆
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suppose that could be the source... but I read it presented in print in some of my recent researches. I believe when I was working on the Eagles.
I can try to recover it if desired.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 2, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> Indeed. We must remember that "the ring was trying to return to its master". And that "a great deal of Sauron's power was put into the ring." So much so that at its destruction, Sauron became, essentially, nothingness.
> Therefore, the ring of itself made many of its own 'decisions' as it were...who it would choose, how it would return, etc.
> In such a case, the range for our speculation increases exponentially with no clear answer possible.
> 
> As Tolkien himself once responded when he was asked a particular recurring question in an interview - one for whcih there is no reasonable answer other than pure speculation - according to the reporter, his response to the question and questioner, after some thought, was simply - "shut up". (He was quite tired of that particular question..!!)


Glad to see someone a bit (or a lot) more experienced is in agreement with this!


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