# Parting with the Ring?



## Ancalagon (Jun 29, 2002)

> But Sauron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men, yet his spirit arose out of the deep and passed as a shadow and a black wind over the sea, and came back to Middle-earth and to Mordor that was his home. There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dûr, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure.



My question is; Did Sauron leave the Ring in Barad-Dur when he went as a captive to Numenor? If so, how was he able to part hiself from it willingly? If not, how did he aquire it again after the destruction of Numenor?


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## Ithrynluin (Jun 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ancalagon _
> *
> 
> My question is; Did Sauron leave the Ring in Barad-Dur when he went as a captive to Numenor? If so, how was he able to part hiself from it willingly? If not, how did he aquire it again after the destruction of Numenor? *



I'm sure he left it "at home" (moreover,I think it says so somewhere actually).Well he could part with it because:
1.he was its creator and master and the will of the ring was thus Sauron's own will.
2.he was evil,he couldn't be corrupted or enslaved by it as he was already the most evil being around
The ring is most efficent when on Sauron's finger but we know that it keeps a certain degree of potency even if it is lost or left behind.So the purpose and power of the ring(to dominate all life and so ensnare the kings of Numenor) can be used from afar.


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## Khamul (Jun 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ancalagon _
> *
> 
> My question is; Did Sauron leave the Ring in Barad-Dur when he went as a captive to Numenor? If so, how was he able to part hiself from it willingly? If not, how did he aquire it again after the destruction of Numenor? *





> There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dûr, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure.



My guess is that he left it 'home' in Barad-Dur. This may be out of context, but sometimes you have to look at it that way. I agree that since he was the master and the maker of the 'One' he is able to part it from himself since he controls it.

So, in a sense, the Ring had no power on it's own, and Sauron was just directing it's course. Havent thought of it like that. Why then would the Ring have come to Bilbo?


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## Chymaera (Jun 30, 2002)

Sauron after he made the 'One ring' made the 'One jewelry box' to keep it in. He didn't want to leave it at home and come back later to find one of the underlings playing 'The Dark Lord' with it.


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## Ancalagon (Jun 30, 2002)

> 2.he was evil,he couldn't be corrupted or enslaved by it as he was already the most evil being around



I think it also says somewhere that Sauron himself lusted after and desired the ring when he was parted from it. This I beleive wholeheartedly, which is why I cannot imagine Sauron would have left it at Barad-Dur, even were it locked safely away in the 'One Jewelry Box'


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## Ithrynluin (Jun 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ancalagon _
> *
> 
> I think it also says somewhere that Sauron himself lusted after and desired the ring when he was parted from it. This I beleive wholeheartedly, which is why I cannot imagine Sauron would have left it at Barad-Dur, even were it locked safely away in the 'One Jewelry Box' *



I don't think it was _easy_ even for Sauron himself to part with the ring.He lusted for it in the sense that he wanted it to enhance his power,not in the sense that it imprisoned his will.
I don't fully understand Sauron's intentions regarding the One:why did he not take it to Numenor? Did he foresee that he will succeed eventually in corrupting the kings and Numenor will "drown" (and thus the ring would fall into the abyss and be lost forever?).Was it all just a safety precaution?


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## Turgon (Jun 30, 2002)

The idea of Sauron leaving the one ring behind is not as strange as it first sounds. This a quote from The Hobbit showing that Gollum too was not incapable of parting with the Ring.



> _*from 'Riddles in the Dark'*_
> 'Not far away was his island, of which Bilbo knew nothing, and there in his hiding place he kept a few wretched oddments, and one very beautiful thing, very beautiful, very wonderful. He had a ring, a golden ring, a precious ring.





> _*from 'Akallabeth'*_
> 'And Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-dur he came, and made no offer of battle. For he percieved that the power and the majesty of the Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them; and he saw not his time yet to work his will with the Dunedain. And was crafty, well skilled to gain what he would by subtlety when force might not avail. Therefore he humbled himself before Ar-Pharazon and smoothed his tongue; and men wondered, for all that he said seemed fair and wise.'



This, it seems, is the point at which Sauron decided to part from his Ring, presuming of course that he did: as he left Barad-dur to confront the approaching armies of Numenor. Two reasons spring to mind as to why it would seem necessary for him to do so.

I) This was an attempt to lure the ambitious Ar-Pharazon away from the One Ring. Ar-Pharazon would surely have took the Ring for himself should he have found Sauron in possession of it at this time. It is possible that Sauron used himself as bait luring the King away from Barad-dur and the Ring, knowing full well that in time he could return to claim it.

II) He foresaw that Ar-Pharazon would drag him back to Numenor in his pride, as a trophy of his own greatness. And knew also that from there he could bring about the Downfall of Numenor. He must of known too, the outcome of the assault on Valinor. Willing to sacrifice his own 'fair' form, but not his Ring, in which his own hopes of domination lay once the power of the Men of Westernesse was broken.


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## aragil (Jun 30, 2002)

First off, I like the reasoning in the prior posts. But, just for fun, here is a quote from _Letters_

Letter 211, to Rhona Beare


> _Rhona Beare wrote, asking a number of questions, so that she could pass on Tolkien's answers to a meeting of fellow-enthusiasts for The Lord of the Rings. ... 'Question 2': How could Ar-Pharazôn defeat Sauron when Sauron had the One Ring?_
> 
> Question 2. This question, & its implications, are answered in the 'Downfall of Nùmenor', which is not yet published, but which I cannot set out now. You cannot press the One Ring too hard, for it is of course a mythical feature, even though the world of the tales is conceived in more or less historical terms. The Ring of Sauron is only one of various mythical treatments of the placing of one's life, or power, in some external object, which is thus exposed to capture or destruction with disastrous results to oneself. If I were to 'philosophize' this myth, or at least the Ring of Sauron, I should say it was a mythical way of representing the truth that _potency_ (or rather _potentiality_) if it is to be exercised, and produce results, has to be externalized and so as it were passes, to a greater or less degree, out of one's direct control. A man who wishes to exert 'power' must have subjects, who are not himself. But he then depends on them.
> Ar-Pharazôn, as is told in the 'Downfall' or _Akallabêth_, conquered a terrified Sauron's _subjects_, not Sauron. Sauron's personal 'surrender' was voluntary and cunning: he got free transport to Nùmenor! He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Nùmenòreans. (I do not think Ar-Pharazôn knew anything about the One Ring. The Elves kept the matter of the Rings very secret, as long as they could. In any case Ar-Pharazôn was not in communication with them. In the _Tale of Years_ III p. 364 you will find hints of the trouble: 'the Shadow falls on Nùmenòr'. After _Tar-Atanamir_ (an Elvish name) the next name is _Ar-Adûnakhôr_ a Nùmenòrean name. See p. 315. The change of names went with a complete rejection of the Elf-friendship, and of the 'theological' teaching the Nùmenòreans had received from them.)
> Sauron was first defeated by a 'miracle': a direct action of God the Creator, changing the fashion of the world, when appealed to by Manwë: see p. 317. Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended.


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## Ancalagon (Jun 30, 2002)

How does a spirit 'carry off' the one Ring after such destruction?


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## Ithrynluin (Jun 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ancalagon _
> *How does a spirit 'carry off' the one Ring after such destruction? *



I don't understand that either. 
Maybe being a maia gives him some telekinetic abilities or something.


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## ReadWryt (Jun 30, 2002)

Barrow-wights are spirits, and they layed a sword across Sam, Merry and Pippin's necks...I don't think that spirits are as impotent as one might assume...


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## aragil (Jun 30, 2002)

IMO even the Nazgûl were spirits, but we all know they were capable of all sorts of mischief. But as the good professor said "I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring".

Not boggling, check.


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## Turgon (Jul 1, 2002)

I agree aragil - not too boggling! Presumably the Ring existed in both worlds anyway, and Sauron's spirit-form would still be wearing it on the 'other-side'. It does make sense.


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## Ancalagon (Jul 1, 2002)

> he was taken in the midst of his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss. But Sauron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men, yet his spirit arose out of the deep and passed as a shadow and a black wind over the sea, and came back to Middle-earth and to Mordor that was his home.



It doesnt really strike me that Sauron was in much shape to carry anything out of this destruction, save his spirit alone! I understand the Barrow-Wights and their abilities, but remember they re-animated old bones, which was the reason they could lift objects. Sauron was destroyed and his bodily form was destroyed, so realistically he would be unable to physically carry anything until such a time as he could assume another form.


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## Anarchist (Jul 2, 2002)

Remember that the One ring contained some of Sauron's power (or perhaps a part of Sauron) in it. Why not being able to carry it while he was in his spirit form? His whole being was attached to that ring (he was totally destroyed after it was) so he could work it well while it was near him. Don't look things in fantasy literature on their logical side. If you do, then you would wonder how the dragons can live with a fire in their lungs of how can an oln man like Gandalf cast a lightning of a lot of Volts and not get killed. Some imagination can solve everything I always say!


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