# Need help interpreting a song based on The Silmarillion



## AriseInMight (Oct 25, 2012)

Hi everyone, I'm a new member. I wanted to get some input from some Tolkien experts on which of two interpretations of a song based on The Silmarillion is correct. I've read The Silmarillion cover to cover twice, reread sections of it, and read The Children of Hurin, and I still can't figure this out.

Some of you may know that the German power metal band Blind Guardian wrote a concept album, "Nightfall in Middle-Earth," which is based on The Silmarillion. I have a friend who loves this album and wants to know what the songs are about, but is too lazy to read the book (???). So, being the rabid Tolkien fan and good friend that I am, I offered to write a listening guide for him, that goes song by song, summarizing the relevant stories in the lyrics and explaining them.


However, I came to an impasse when I got to the song "Thorn," (lyrics link:http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/blindguardian/nightfallinmiddleearth.html#15) where there seems to be a divide in the community over what story it references. Some people believe that the song is about Maeglin and the betrayal of Gondolin, which seems to be the "canonical" interpretation of the song, and this interpretation is strongly supported by the fact that "Thorn" comes directly after a 30-second interlude track called "The Dark Elf," which clearly refers to Eol, and the lyrics of that short track are simply "The dark seed of evil is grown," a direct quote from the Silmarillion about Eol/Maeglin. Further, there are lyrics such as "Will I betray myself to rise?" and "I'm the ill-gotten son," which seem to clearly reference Maeglin's situation.


On the other hand, most of the lyrics of the song are vague and I cannot determine the meaning, particularly the chorus: "Oh at dawn, I'll face the edge of thorns." I recently read The Children of Hurin, (TCoH hereafter) and in it I learned several things that indicate to me that the song "Thorn" might actually refer to the story of Turin Turambar. For example, in TCoH, Turin's sword is at one point referred to as "the black *thorn* of Brethil," and further, there are multiple conspicuous references to "thorns" and "thorn-bushes" in the description of the entrance of home of Mim the dwarf upon Amon Rudh, so the lyrics about betrayal of his home (that are assumed to be Maeglin betraying Gondolin) could also be looked at as Mim betraying the location of Turin and Beleg's company in Amon Rudh. As for "The Dark Elf" as a prelude to the track, and "the dark seed of evil is grown," this could be reinterpreted more symbolically, where the dark seed of evil is actually Anglachel, Turin's sword, forged by none other than Eol, the dark elf. 

There are several lines, as I noted above, which seem to strongly indicate that the song is about Maeglin and Gondolin, but there are also several lines which seem to strongly indicate that the song is about Turin: "I'm lost in the depths of his eyes/I can't flee/Inner pain caused insanity/It's deep within/The fear and the hunger/Enslaved and denied/By my love and my enemies." This seems to very strongly reference the part of Turin's story where Glaurung uses his eyes to daunt and hypnotize and paralyze Turin, and "enslave" him by causing him to do evil deeds he does not intend under the shadow of darkness. Lastly, the phrase "search for truth in lies" is in the song, which I believe is either a direct quote or a close paraphrasing of a line from TCoH.

There seem to be some clear strong hints towards both stories, and the rest of the song is vague lyrics that could go either way. If any of you Tolkien experts think you can definitively answer the question, or at least make a strong argument supported by text references, for either side, I would love to hear it. 

Thanks!


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## Sulimo (Oct 28, 2012)

That sounds really cool. Not familiar with the band but I will look into it.


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## Sulimo (Oct 29, 2012)

I think you sold me. As I read the lyrics I find it much easier to connect to Turin, but that may be because he is a much better developed character. What I find difficult to determine is, if this is Turin, what are the exact events. 

For instance the line about a new king over a misty pond could represent 2 different things. Either Hurin or Fingon has lost their realm, or Orodreth is dead and Glaurang is now lord of Nargothrond. I also find the I will betray myself to rise line interesting. I can completely understand how someone could think Maeglin, but also during his stint in Nargothrond he attempted to hide his identity. He knew if he revealed who he truly was that though people would gather round him it would lead to their deaths. I also like your point about the eyes. I'm not sure if this is about Turin, but that seems reasonable to me.


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## Tsagadar (Mar 19, 2013)

e wood, seeking the sunlight; and desire grew hot in
Maeglin's heart to leave Nan Elmoth for ever. Therefore he said to Aredh




AriseInMight said:


> Hi everyone, I'm a new member. I wanted to get some input from some Tolkien experts on which of two interpretations of a song based on The Silmarillion is correct. I've read The Silmarillion cover to cover twice, reread sections of it, and read The Children of Hurin, and I still can't figure this out.
> 
> Some of you may know that the German power metal band Blind Guardian wrote a concept album, "Nightfall in Middle-Earth," which is based on The Silmarillion. I have a friend who loves this album and wants to know what the songs are about, but is too lazy to read the book (???). So, being the rabid Tolkien fan and good friend that I am, I offered to write a listening guide for him, that goes song by song, summarizing the relevant stories in the lyrics and explaining them.
> 
> ...



Hi!
I've been studying this album (and the Silmarillion with it) for years now, and usually such interesting ideas (as Turin here) appeal to me.
I still don't want to rule it out completely - and usually I believe that Blind Guardian intentionally compare stories by confusing them with each other.

What might be a missing link for you is the Concept Stories that come with the booklet of the album - Originally in German, but there's an English version as well (which I was lucky enough to get on the first time I bought the album, 15 years ago). These concept stories are written from Maglor's point of view, more or less as a diary with 16 parts; but, as might be expected, they keep it very vague. In the part called "Changes" they quite clearly talk about Maeglin: "...in the faraway woods we called the *Dark Forest*, the Son Of Disaster was born. Never we spoke to one another yet we shared the same fate - the fate of traitors. His every inside longed for light and love, yet he was to bring nothing but mischief to both. Under the surface of his noble appearance lay undetected and well protected *the seed of evil*, slowly growing. Human folk appeared, sudden and unexpected. We welcomed our younger brothers, though we were full of distrust. Too different to ours, seemed the way of those, who had joined us this late..."

I will also refer to the end of your quote "Enslaved and denied by my love and my enemies" - That fits almost perfectly to Maeglin as he's denied by Idril but he's also enslaved by his love to her.
As you can tell from the concept stories - Blind Guardian are showing sympathy towards Maeglin, who "longed for light and love". In the woods of Nan Elmoth Aredhel and Maeglin "rode often to the eaves of the wood, seeking the sunlight; and desire grew hot in Maeglin's heart to leave Nan Elmoth for ever". I think we can look at the chorus of the song as Maeglin facing the edge of the forest\darkness he so longs to escape (but eventually he cannot, in essence).
Also - I read the preceding song in the same way: The Dark Elf is Eol's "title", but as Blind Guardian take the line that refers to Maeglin in the book (and change 'sown' to 'grown' - as he has grown into this part) and put it under that title they clearly compare between the two - the father and the son. Eventually Maeglin is like his father (that is also in the book).
The last thing I'd like to mention is the silence. In the song they say "I'm moving in silence" - Maeglin is a very silent figure. You might say that he betrayed secretly, but much more than that - he remains silent in moments that should be very dramatic for him (his father's attack on himself\his mother and his father's execution are two examples). These moments probably have a deep effect on him, and under his silence he's probably changing. I think that's what's meant by "moving in silence".

I hope this helps, and not too late...
I'd appreciate it if you'd take a look on my analysis of some other songs on this forum, as one who attempted the same task:
http://www.thetolkienforum.com/show...way-to-deeper-thoughts-about-the-Silmarillion


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