# Question About Olorin



## 1stvermont (Aug 3, 2021)

I know some of the maiar [or maybe all?] were servents of valar. Was Olorin a servent of a particular Valar?


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## Elthir (Aug 3, 2021)

The tale tells that Olorin learned pity and patience from Nienna.

One might infer "served" (if we need that word specifically), especially in the context of the description of Melian serving Vana and Este, which directly precedes the sentence about Olorin and Nienna.

🐾


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## CirdanLinweilin (Aug 4, 2021)

Elthir said:


> The tale tells that Olorin learned pity and patience from Nienna.


Which culminated in the Fall of Sauron, due to the Pity of Bilbo!

Good going Nienna. 



CL


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## Elthir (Aug 4, 2021)

Huzzah Nienna!


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## Alcuin (Aug 4, 2021)

The essay “Istar” in _Unfinished Tales_ includes a passage by Christopher Tolkien,
On [a] page of jottings clearly belonging to the same period [as the essay] it is said that “Curumo [Saruman] was obliged to take Aiwendil [Radagast] to please Yavanna wife of Aulë.” There are here also some rough tables relating the names of the Istari to the names of the Valar: Olórin to Manwë and Varda, Curumo to Aulë, Aiwendil to Yavanna, Alatar to Oromë, and Pallando also to Oromë (but this replaces Pallando to Mandos and Nienna).​In another section, he writes that
In an earlier version … it is said that Olórin was the “counsellor of Irmo,” and that in the hearts of those who hearkened to him awoke thoughts “of fair things that had not yet been but might yet be made for the enrichment of Arda.”​Irmo is the proper name of the Vala Lórien, and in “Valaquenta” in _Silmarillion_, we find the passage alluded to by Elthir:
Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He … dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience.​Finally, Christopher Tolkien mentions his father’s notes indicate that
…Manwë asked, where was Olórin? And Olórin, who was clad in grey, and having just entered from a journey had seated himself at the edge of the council, asked what Manwë would have of him. Manwë replied that he wished Olórin to go as the third messenger to Middle-earth (and it is remarked in parentheses that “Olórin was a lover of the Eldar that remained,” apparently to explain Manwë’s choice). But Olórin declared that he was too weak for such a task, and that he feared Sauron. Then Manwë said that that was all the more reason why he should go, and that he commanded Olórin (illegible words follow that seems to contain word “third”). But at that Varda looked up and said: “Not as the third.” …​I would opine that, from this material, Olórin’s primary allegiance was to Manwë and Varda, but that he spent considerable time both with Nienna, Manwë’s (and Morgoth’s) “sister” among the Valar, and in Lórien, where he served for a time as counselor to Irmo Lórien.


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## Elthir (Aug 4, 2021)

Huzzah *Alcuin*!


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## Olorgando (Aug 4, 2021)

Elthir said:


> Huzzah *Alcuin*!


Rough guess: that was about a ha'penny's worth.


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## Oromedur (Aug 5, 2021)

Elthir said:


> Huzzah Nienna!


Nienna had some making up to do, after aiding Melkor’s prayer to be released from Mandos. #justsaying


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## grendel (Aug 5, 2021)

Oromedur said:


> Nienna had some making up to do, after aiding Melkor’s prayer to be released from Mandos. #justsaying


She had pity even for the most evil creature in the history of Creation. You have to give her props for being true to form.

And Mandos didn't have to listen.


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## Oromedur (Aug 5, 2021)

grendel said:


> She had pity even for the most evil creature in the history of Creation. You have to give her props for being true to form.
> 
> And Mandos didn't have to listen.


Indeed. The quality of mercy is not strained and all that and at the end of the day it was Manwe’s decision.


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## ZehnWaters (Aug 20, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> The essay “Istar” in _Unfinished Tales_ includes a passage by Christopher Tolkien...
> ​I would opine that, from this material, Olórin’s primary allegiance was to Manwë and Varda, but that he spent considerable time both with Nienna, Manwë’s (and Morgoth’s) “sister” among the Valar, and in Lórien, where he served for a time as counselor to Irmo Lórien.


I see no reason why he couldn't have spent time with all of those, the Ainur were in Valinor for thousands of years with nothing else to do (and they all were inclined for learning and understanding). Coming back as Gandalf the White with powers of light (something he was skilled with before as well) seem to imply a connection with Varda.



Oromedur said:


> Indeed. The quality of mercy is not strained and all that and at the end of the day it was Manwe’s decision.


I mean, Eru might have allowed it since Manwë was in communion with him (sort of).


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