# Why didn't Thorin & Co use Mithril armor in the Battle of Five Armies?



## BalrogRingDestroyer (May 10, 2022)

I guess I first thought of this from a joke used in a "How it Should Have Ended" for the Hobbit movie (the third one) where Bilbo, who already has a magic ring, tells Thorin to keep the Mthril coat and so uses it to avoid being killed by Azog. While Azog was already dead in the books by this time, I think Thorin was killed in a fight with Azog's son, Bolg in the books or at least fighting him plus others.

However, if Thorin had found one coat of mithril for Bilbo, surely in an old dwarf armor lair and fortress, there would have been a bunch of them. And since Thorin was already scheming for a lopsided fight (about 312 dwarves or so against loads more men and elves), you'd think he'd have been looking around the treasure lair, while walled up in Fort Thorin against the Elves and Men, to try and find some awesome weapons and armor to help his group plus Dain's Army. 

If that Mithril Armor was able to turn a bunch of nasty attacks on Frodo in Moria (though I suppose, if the dwarves who got the Mithril from Moria, lost their king to a fight with the goblins at Moria, that the armor wasn't all-protective), it might have saved Thorin, Kili, and Fili's lives in that battle.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 10, 2022)

We don't _know _they didn't have mithril coats. However, there are indications they didn't. For one thing, Thorin puts on a coat of "gold-plated rings", and it seems unlikely mithril would be so overlaid. Secondly, mithril was so rare and highly prized, that I doubt it would be used for anything so common and prosaic as a coat of armor, Bilbo's being a special case, having been "wrought for some young elf-prince long ago" -- therefore, a special commission or gift.

Additionally, although it was stronger than steel, its real benefit as armor was that it was far _lighter; _this was helpful for Bilbo, and later for Frodo, but would have meant little to Dwarves, who, as said in _Fellowship_, "made light of burdens".


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

It is an interesting question. The Dwarves set up a significant trade of Mithril with the Elves, for whom it was the most highly prized metal. It made the Dwarves extremely rich.

Perhaps they just didn't consider putting it to use as armor a "profitable" venture, given its value. The Dwarves were always greedy. 

They also didn't know the extent of the mother-lode under Barazinbar. They were still digging to find that out when they woke the Balrog.

Of course, it's all speculation, as Tolkien chose not to make it entirely clear.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

As @Squint-eyed Southerner previously stated, I don't think that they would've used it for just anything. The coat of Mithril given to Bilbo is a very rare scenario, and it had been created for some prince. The Dwarves also I believe altogether favored plated armor and helmets to the shinier and more luxurious Mithril pieces. The Dwarves were great craftsmen, but they were also very hardy. 

Also-- Mithril is rare, and I don't see the Dwarves making LOTS of coats out of it, seeing that they were greedy and not delighted to share, even with other Dwarves. 

They were also sort of thrown into this battle, so Mithril might have been an after thought.

As previously said, all speculation-- no way to clearly tell.


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> As @Squint-eyed Southerner previously stated, I don't think that they would've used it for just anything. The coat of Mithril given to Bilbo is a very rare scenario, and it had been created for some prince. The Dwarves also I believe altogether favored plated armor and helmets to the shinier and more luxurious Mithril pieces. The Dwarves were great craftsmen, but they were also very hardy.
> 
> Also-- Mithril is rare, and I don't see the Dwarves making LOTS of coats out of it, seeing that they were greedy and not delighted to share, even with other Dwarves.
> 
> ...



One thing I've just VERY recently read, too, is that the Dwarves of Moria shut up their gates and did not participate in one of the wars with the Elves... I yet need to see how that plays into the whole schema... but if they chose not to participate, certainly that reduced their desire to 'waste' Mithril on protective gear. 
(Just more fodder for the speculations while the 'fire is hot but the answers are not'...)


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> One thing I've just VERY recently read, too, is that the Dwarves of Moria shut up their gates and did not participate in one of the wars with the Elves... I yet need to see how that plays into the whole schema... but if they chose not to participate, certainly that reduced their desire to 'waste' Mithril on protective gear.
> (Just more fodder for the speculations while the 'fire is hot but the answers are not'...)


Hmm... Very interesting. If they chose not to fight at all, that would explain the lack of Mithril armor. 

(I love that small bit at the end.. The fire is indeed hot, but the answers are not..)


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Hmm... Very interesting. If they chose not to fight at all, that would explain the lack of Mithril armor.
> 
> (I love that small bit at the end.. The fire is indeed hot, but the answers are not..)



Indeed. I recall now where I read it, and recall I want to go back and validate it in the 'original sources' from which it may have been taken. It is in a supposedly reliable resource...but without confirmation (the sources for which it didn't cite within the small portion of the whole that I read) I don't want to say much more. Perhaps someone else has more direct knowledge of it too.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> Indeed. I recall now where I read it, and recall I want to go back and validate it in the 'original sources' from which it may have been taken. It is in a supposedly reliable resource...but without confirmation (the sources for which it didn't cite within the small portion of the whole that I read) I don't want to say much more. Perhaps someone else has more direct knowledge of it too.


I speculated that it was your own creation, I need not know the direct source, however I will gladly take such informative knowledge. Thank you for sharing.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 6, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> Indeed. I recall now where I read it, and recall I want to go back and validate it in the 'original sources' from which it may have been taken. It is in a supposedly reliable resource...but without confirmation (the sources for which it didn't cite within the small portion of the whole that I read) I don't want to say much more. Perhaps someone else has more direct knowledge of it too.


The earliest published source is in Appendix A, III, "Durin's Folk":


> The power of Moria endured throughout the Dark Years and the dominion of Sauron, for though Eregion was destroyed and the gates of Moria were shut, the halls of Khazad-dum were too deep and too strong and filled with a people too numerous and valiant for Sauron to conquer from without. Thus its wealth remained long unravished though its people began to dwindle.


According to the Tale of Years, this happened in S.A 1697.


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> The earliest published source is in Appendix A, III, "Durin's Folk":
> 
> According to the Tale of Years, this happened in S.A 1697.



thank you for shortening my search.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> thank you for shortening my search.


I must say-- I like your signature (the thing at the end of your message) very much. What a nice quote.


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> It is an interesting question. The Dwarves set up a significant trade of Mithril with the Elves, for whom it was the most highly prized metal. It made the Dwarves extremely rich.
> 
> Perhaps they just didn't consider putting it to use as armor a "profitable" venture, given its value. The Dwarves were always greedy.
> 
> ...


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## Ent (Jul 6, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I must say-- I like your signature (the thing at the end of your message) very much. What a nice quote.



Thank you. I was most happy to have 'happened' upon it in my recent reading. It says so much that is so important to so many of us...!!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 6, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> Thank you. I was most happy to have 'happened' upon it in my recent reading. It says so much that is so important to so many of us...!!


Ah, yes. 
For me, it is both a reminder to myself and others not to get too confident with words, when in reality, you don't know what you are talking about. It also stems another lesson for me; the foolish speak with excessive confidence, the wise speak with wisdom and knowledge, but ears open to learn.


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