# Sauron, How did you know about Gollum?



## HarryTheWhite (Nov 4, 2016)

I came across something that bugged me the other day. After watching FoTR for like the 20th time, I noticed something:* How does Sauron know that Gollum/Smeagól had the ring?*
After it betrayed Isildur, the ring was lost and passed into myth. Im not sure how exactly, but Gollum had it for about 500 years (Enough time to outlive anyone who knew he had it). Therefore by the time FoTR starts, there would likely be no-one who knows the whereabouts of the ring or Gollum for that matter, that was either an agent or a servant of Sauron. This makes it confusing, even though Sauron seriously outdates the time of Smeagól/Gollum's lifespan, I cannot see how Sauron would have the faintest idea that Gollum either existed or had previously owned the ring. Even by the time the ring had awoken, it was in the hands of Bilbo. 

The only likely explanation I could warrant would be if one of the river folk knew of the ring (possible due to driving away Smeagól away for murdering Deagól), had passed this information down through about 600yrs of generations, then informed someone loyal to Sauron. Because of the amount of coincidence needing to occur in order for this to be true, I struggle to believe this has happened. 

As always, any comments, corrections or straight theories relating to this topic/question are most helpful.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Nov 4, 2016)

Gollum went into Mordor and was captured:



> 'But I am afraid there is no possible doubt: he had made his slow, sneaking way, step by step, mile by mile, south, down at last to the Land of Mordor' .....
> 
> 'Wretched fool! In that land he would learn much, too much for his comfort. And sooner or later as he lurked and pried on the borders he would be caught, and taken – for examination. That was the way of it, I fear. When he was found he had already been there long, and was on his way back. On some errand of mischief. But that does not matter much now. His worst mischief was done.
> 
> 'Yes, alas! through him the Enemy has learned that the One has been found again. He knows where Isildur fell. He knows where Gollum found his ring. He knows that it is a Great Ring, for it gave long life. He knows that it is not one of the Three, for they have never been lost, and they endure no evil. He knows that it is not one of the Seven, or the Nine, for they are accounted for. He knows that it is the One. And he has at last heard, I think, of _hobbits_ and the _Shire_.'


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## HarryTheWhite (Nov 5, 2016)

So, does that mean that Gollum meant to be caught and give information to Sauron concerning the ring?


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## Deleted member 12094 (Nov 5, 2016)

Dear HarryTheWhite: as Erestor Arcamen already made clear, Gollum was “captured” – meaning against his will, of course. He was interrogated in Mordor; compared to this, Guantanamo must look like a holiday resort.

Although all meaningful information was retrieved from him, Gollum still managed to withhold some secrets from his tormentors. He released the name of the current owner “Bilbo Baggins” and of his country “the Shire”, yet he managed to convince his tormentors that he did not know where this land was located, no doubt while hoping to get there sooner:

_“From all the accounts it is clear that Gollum did at least know in which direction the Shire lay; but though no doubt more could have been wrung from him by torture, Sauron plainly had no inkling that Baggins came from a region far removed from the Misty Mountains or that Gollum knew where it was, and assumed that he would be found in the Vales of Anduin, in the same region as Gollum himself had once lived._

_This was a very small and natural error – but possibly the most important mistake that Sauron made in the whole affair. But for it, the Black Riders would have reached the Shire weeks sooner.”_

The “connection issues” between the interpretations of HarryTheWhite and Erestor Arcamen are only too clear to me: whereas HarryTheWhite takes his interpretations from a movie seen the 20th time without ever reading the books, Erestor Arcamen brings answers from the original literature. I fully stand on Erestor Arcamen’s side here! KJ’s shortcuts, own stupid inventions and other distortions in his movies are a source of much irritation of mine.

No disrespect meant HarryTheWhite, but if you caught the taste of Middle-Earth (and I see that you do!), then rather than looking at the movie a 21st time grab the book and treat yourself to a wonderful surprise!


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