# Elves catchin' Z's?



## Sagan369 (Feb 25, 2006)

Did those vile creatures require sleep the same way that Men did? I seem remeber whenever the Fellowship rested Legolas always seemed to take watch.


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## Thorondor_ (Feb 25, 2006)

Yes they sleep; off the top of my head, Finrod and Turgon slept near Sirion, when Ulmo gave them the visions of Gondolin and Nargothrond; the first 144 Unbeggoten elves also rose from sleep, and Miriel went to sleep in the gardens of Lorien.


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## Withywindle (Feb 25, 2006)

There are one or two references that Elves might rest simly by contemplating beautiful things, or that they might dream without actually sleeping in total unconsciousness like Men.

As far as Legolas is concerned he definitely did sleep in general and did not take all the watches. We are given the impression that he does not sleep during the chase of the Three Hunters where he speaks against resting at all in order to gain on the orcs, and at times when Aragorn and Gimli wake up, they find him standing up wide awake. Of course, maybe he´s just a tremendous show off, but we might think that Elves were capable of going for considerable stretches without sleep or rest when there was great need, but eventually would have to recuperate.


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## Sagan369 (Feb 25, 2006)

What are 144 Unbegotten Elves? The ones who woke up at Cuivienen?
I guess i mean do the Elves need sleep on a diurnal basis, as men do.
Like 6-8hrs/day?


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## Annaheru (Feb 25, 2006)

yes, but it doesn't seem to be quite like men's sleep:
"Legolas already lay motionless, his fair hands folded upon his breast, his eyes unclosed, blending living night and deep dream, _as is the way with Elves_." TT, prt1 "Riders of Rohan"

and:
"Only Legolas still stepped as light as ever, his feet hardly seeming to press the grass, leaving no footprints as he passed; but in the waybread of the Elves he found all the sustenance that he needed, _and he could sleep, if sleep it could be called by Men, *resting his mind in the strange paths of elvish dreams*, even as he walked open-eyed in the light of this world_." TT prt1 "Riders of Rohan"

so elvish sleep seems to be more aware and more interactive than ours. This manner of sleeping would seem to lend itself to Ulmo's dream messages too, but the in the cases of the 144 and Miriel I think we're dealing with something different. In the first, it seems to be an "inanimate" state: they hadn't yet been awakened in the sense of self awareness. In Miriel we have something that's disturbing to both the Valar and the Elves, I think it would more accurately be described as an elvish coma, until she left her body for Mandos.


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## Elthir (Feb 28, 2006)

On 5 November 1956 Tolkien wrote to a Mr Britten that... 



> 'it is plainly suggested that Elves do 'sleep', but not in our mode, having a different relation to what we call 'dreaming'. Nothing very definite is said about it (a) because except at a length destructive of narrative it would be difficult to describe a different mode of conciousness, and (b) for reasons that you so rightly observe: something must be left not fully explained, and only suggested.' Tolkien -George Allen & Unwin archive, HarperCollins (Courtesy of Hammond and Scull's new companion to _The Lord_ _of the Rings_)


 
'Then Ambarussa went pale with fear. 'Did you not then rouse Ambarussa my brother (who you call Ambarto)?' he said. 'He would not come ashore to sleep (he said) in discomfort.' JRRT

Galin


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## Aisteru (Apr 4, 2006)

I forgot where exactly I read this ( my Tolkien knowledge is a little rusty, it's been a while) but I remember that Elves never sleep. It is said when they are weary they meditate and enter a low state of cosciousness. very much like sleep but they are still aware of all that is a around.


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## Helcaraxë (Apr 10, 2006)

In LotR, when Tolkien says Legolas "sleeps," he does not mean it literally. This is evidenced by the description of Elves "sleeping" as wandering awake in a dream-like trance or recovering energy by looking at beautiful things.


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