# Vampires and Werewolves



## SpencerC18 (Apr 22, 2002)

Were there vampires and werewolves in ME?


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## tasar (Apr 22, 2002)

No vampires? What's this then?http://www.jimcalagon.supanet.com/Jimcalagon The Red_files/vamparwen.jpg


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## Lantarion (Apr 22, 2002)

LOL, Tasar. 
But seriously, there were werewolves (does that sound strange to anybody else?) in both the Sil and LotR, as well as the Hobbit. In the Sil I believe Carcharoth was a sort of werewolf, an Sauron turned into one when fighting Huan; in the LotR and Hobbit there were Wargs, which Orcs rode on into battle (Cf. the battle with the wolves close to Moria, and the Battles of the Fords of Isen).
Oh yes, and Lúthien took a hideous bat/vampire form when she and Beren ran through Taur-nu-Fuin, called Thuringwethil.


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## Isilme (Apr 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tasar _
> *No vampires? What's this then?http://www.jimcalagon.supanet.com/Jimcalagon The Red_files/vamparwen.jpg *



That's kind of freaky!!


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## Tarien (Apr 23, 2002)

Scary Elf Lady!!!


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## Úlairi (Apr 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pontifex _
> *LOL, Tasar.
> But seriously, there were werewolves (does that sound strange to anybody else?) in both the Sil and LotR, as well as the Hobbit. In the Sil I believe Carcharoth was a sort of werewolf, an Sauron turned into one when fighting Huan; in the LotR and Hobbit there were Wargs, which Orcs rode on into battle (Cf. the battle with the wolves close to Moria, and the Battles of the Fords of Isen).
> Oh yes, and Lúthien took a hideous bat/vampire form when she and Beren ran through Taur-nu-Fuin, called Thuringwethil. *



Pontifex is also forgetting a couple of other things.

Here is a quote from the Sil:



> "But neither wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art of beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor; and he took his foe by the throat and pinned him down. Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form; but he could not elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body utterly. Ere his foul spirit left its dark house, Luthien came to him and said that he should be stripped of his raiment of flesh, and his ghost be sent back quaking back to Morgith; and she said: 'There everlastingly thy naked self shall endure the torment of his scorn, pierced by his eyes, unless thou yield to me the mastery of thy tower.'
> Then Sauron yielded himself, and Luthien took the mastery of the isle and all that was there; and Huan released him. *And immediately he took the form of a vampire, great as a dark cloud across the moon*, and he fled, dripping blood from his throat upon the trees, and came to Taur-nu-Fuin, and dwelt there, filling it with horror."
> _The Silmarillion Page 210_





> _Originally posted by Pontifex_
> *Oh yes, and Lúthien took a hideous bat/vampire form when she and Beren ran through Taur-nu-Fuin, called Thuringwethil.*



Pontifex is right here. Here is another quote from the Sil:



> "She was the messenger of Sauron, and was wont to fly in *vampire's form* to Angband; and her great fingered wings were barbed at each joint's end with an iron claw. Clad in these dreadful garments Huan and Luthien ran through Taur-nu-Fuin, and all things fled before them."
> _The Silmarillion Page 214_





> _Originally posted by Pontifex_
> *In the Sil I believe Carcharoth was a sort of werewolf,...*



Carcharoth was not 'a sort of werewolf' he *was* a werewolf.

Here is yet another quote from the Sil:



> "Then Morgoth recalled the doom of Huan, and he chose one from among the dreadful whelps of the race of Draugluin; and he fed him with his own hand upon living flesh, and put his power upon him. Swiftly the wolf grew, until he could creep into no den, but lay huge and hungry before the feet of Morgoth. There the fire and anguish of hell entered into him, and he became filled with a devouring spirit, tormented, terrible, and strong. *Carcharoth, the Red Maw, he is named in the tales of those days, and Anfauglir, the Jaws of Thirst*. And Morgoth set him to lie unsleeping before the doors of Angband, lest Huan come."
> _The Silmarillion Page 216_



Pontifex is right about the rest. I also have one to add: Draugluin, of the same race as the mighty werewolf Carcharoth.


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## YayGollum (Apr 24, 2002)

Nobody likes a smarty pants. Except for when it's me, right? Anyways, Yay Beornings! The werebears!


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## Úlairi (Apr 24, 2002)

Sorry that I'm smart YayGollum! One can't help these things.


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## YayGollum (Apr 25, 2002)

Thank you. You should be. Argh!


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## Úlairi (Apr 26, 2002)

Don't get too confused YayGollum, you may hurt yourself!


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## YayGollum (Apr 30, 2002)

Yes, ma'am.


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## Isilme (Apr 30, 2002)

> Then Sauron yielded himself, and Luthien took the mastery of the isle and all that was there; and Huan released him. And immediately he took the form of a vampire, great as a dark cloud across the moon, and he fled, dripping blood from his throat upon the trees, and came to Taur-nu-Fuin, and dwelt there, filling it with horror."


aww you found it before me


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## Grond (Apr 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ulairi _
> *...Pontifex is right about the rest. I also have one to add: Draugluin, of the same race as the mighty werewolf Carcharoth. *


I just love to correct smarty pants who think they know it all. Carcharoth was a whelp of the race of Draugluin. So you had it backwards. Draugluin was the sire... Carcharoth the whelp. Nay, nay, nay, nay, nayyyyyyy, nay.


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## Grond (Apr 30, 2002)

I forgot to give the exact quote... so here it is.



> _from The Silmarillion, Of Beren and Luthien_
> *...Then Morgoth recalled the doom of Huan, and he chose one from among the whelps of the race of Draugluin; and he fed him with his own hand upon living flesh, and put his power upon him. Swiftly the wolf grew, until he could creep into no den, but lay huge and hungry before the feet of Morgoth. There the fire and anguish of hell entered into him, and he became filled with a devouring spirit, tormented, terrible, and strong. Carcharoth, the Red Maw, he is named in the tales of those days, and Anfauglir, the Jaws of Thirst. And Morgoth set him to lie unsleeping before the doors of Angband, lest Huan come."*


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## Úlairi (May 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *I just love to correct smarty pants who think they know it all. Carcharoth was a whelp of the race of Draugluin. So you had it backwards. Draugluin was the sire... Carcharoth the whelp. Nay, nay, nay, nay, nayyyyyyy, nay. *



Ha ha Grond! You didn't get me! I said *'of the same race'* not *'the father'*. I am of the same race as my father, therefore I wasn't wrong.



> _Originally posted by Grond_
> *...they know it all.*



You're right Grond, I do know it all.


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## YayGollum (May 1, 2002)

Name all of Gollum's names!


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## Grond (May 1, 2002)

Ulari, a tactful retreat. Your post gives a clear inference that it was the other way around. That Carcharoth was the alpha and Draugluin was the omega. But, you are technically right.


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## Úlairi (May 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond_
> *Ulari, a tactful retreat. Your post gives a clear inference that it was the other way around. That Carcharoth was the alpha and Draugluin was the omega.*



No, you just took it the wrong way. I knew what I was saying and I musn't have been in my right state of mind if I had said otherwise. I know the Sil nearly front to back.



> _Originally posted by Grond_
> But, you are technically right.



I know.

Btw, Grond, when are you going to post in the 'Ring invisibility = etc, etc, etc" thread and my 'Gollum's life' thread, you promised that you would be back, but you haven't kept it. Why not?


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## Grond (May 2, 2002)

Been busy with other forum matters. Will definately get back to them though.


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## Ancalagon (May 2, 2002)

Thuringwethil 'the Woman of Secret Shadow', was the cheif messenger between Angband and Tol-in-Gaurhoth, where Suaron ruled his Werewolf legions.


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## Úlairi (May 3, 2002)

I know.


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