# What's the difference,please?



## _postman (Sep 21, 2010)

Hello

Can I ask what the difference is between the Ainur and the Valar.

Thanks for any advice.

_postman


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## Prince of Cats (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey _postman,

Ainur is a term that encompasses both Valar and Maiar. For analogy Ainur is like the term mammal where Valar would be human.

All Valar fit in Ainur
All Maiar fit in Ainur

Not all Ainur are Valar


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## Turgon (Sep 21, 2010)

In addition to what PoC wrote, the Valar are basically the most powerful of the Ainur and the Maiar 'lesser' beings.


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## _postman (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks to you both for your helpful comments.

Cheers!

_postman


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## Gothmog (Oct 13, 2010)

Good answers but you both missed a part.

The Ainur were the first creations of Ilúvatar. They were with him before the creation of Arda. Their purpose was to create music before Ilúvatar. They all came together to create music to the Themes given by Ilúvatar, the Greatest music ever heard. This was known as 'The Music of the Ainur' and resulted in the creation of Arda itself.

When Arda was created Some of the greatest of the Ainur went down into it and became know there as the Valar and the Maiar. Many, possibly most, of the Ainur remained with Ilúvatar watching from the outside.

So All Valar and Maiar are indeed Ainur. But not all Ainur are Valar or Maiar, or even in Arda.


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## rraffael25 (Jan 4, 2011)

The Ainur were the first creations of Ilúvatar. They were with him before the creation of Arda. Their purpose was to create music before Ilúvatar. They all came together to create music to the Themes given by Ilúvatar, the Greatest music ever heard. This was known as 'The Music of the Ainur' and resulted in the creation of Arda itself.
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## childoferu (Jan 5, 2011)

Gothmog said:


> Good answers but you both missed a part.
> 
> The Ainur were the first creations of Ilúvatar. They were with him before the creation of Arda. Their purpose was to create music before Ilúvatar. They all came together to create music to the Themes given by Ilúvatar, the Greatest music ever heard. This was known as 'The Music of the Ainur' and resulted in the creation of Arda itself.
> 
> ...


 
So was Melkor the greatest of the Valar? or the greatest of all the Aniur?


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## Alcuin (Jan 5, 2011)

childoferu said:


> So was Melkor the greatest of the Valar? or the greatest of all the Aniur?


Both.


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## Starflower (Jan 7, 2011)

I disagree with Alcuin slightly: 


> The mightiest of those Ainur who came into the World was i*n his beginning *Melkor; but Manwë is dearest to Ilúvatar and understands most clearly his purposes. He was appointed to be, in the fullness of time, the first of all Kings: lord of the realm of Arda and ruler of all that dwell therein.


 (emphasis mine)

Melkor was certainly in the beginning the mightiest of all Ainur, but this reads to me that once within Arda, Manwe superseded him.


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