# Worst military commander?



## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 28, 2021)

Well, the list I made all were mostly "pay-to-win" style commanders, without victories won by artistic command. Most they could do was nothing but spamming endless ammunition to waste fire power and personnel, and some of them made farce-like mistake. If you got any other idea, welcome to leave your feedback.

Turin and Gwindor were controversial, for their seemingly unforgivable mistake such as Unnumbered Tears's 1st stage was forced by the majority of their colleagues or subordinates.

Castamir just monkey around to gather dislike after gaining the first hands during the kin-strife, providing Eldacar enough time to not only gain enough military strength but obviously sufficient training. And about Feanor, JRRT implied his only victory was won by nothing but the bonuses that all his personnel were super soldiers mutated by Valinor's light, and he even just let his command center bumped into the dead-zone like a relentless drunk ape.


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## m4r35n357 (Sep 28, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Turin and Gwindor were controversial, for their seemingly unforgivable mistake such as Unnumbered Tears's 1st stage was forced by the majority of their colleagues or subroutines.


Subordinates?

Is this predictive text, or a translator, or both? As an ex-programmer (sort of) I can assure you there were no subroutines in the First Age


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## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 28, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> Subordinates?
> 
> Is this predictive text, or a translator, or both? As an ex-programmer (sort of) I can assure you there were no subroutines in the First Age


Subroutines-subordinates, my mistake, sry. XD


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## m4r35n357 (Sep 29, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Subroutines-subordinates, my mistake, sry. XD


No need for apologies, just trying to understand! Don't let me put you off 

I might as well mention Fingolfin's attempted but under-resourced invasion of Angband (possibly Gwindor's inspiration later), and Beren & Felagund's failed assault on Minas Tirith while I am here . . .


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2021)

Military commander? Fëanor. His only military victory was against unarmoured and lightly armed opponents who had been his friends and thus weren't expecting a slaughter. And he still left the battle early. I'm going to be honest, Fëanor had a brilliant mind for crafts and words but was dumber than a mud fence. He's the classic example of having intelligence but lacking in wisdom. He constantly underestimated his opponents and overestimated himself. He spurned help, friends, and alliances. I can't think of any of the other military commanders listed who were even HALF as bad as Fëanor. All of them had at least ONE good victory and didn't actively shoot themselves in the foot every time they turned around.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Well, the list I made all were mostly "pay-to-win" style commanders, without victories won by artistic command. Most they could do was nothing but spamming endless ammunition to waste fire power and personnel, and some of them made farce-like mistake. If you got any other idea, welcome to leave your feedback.



To be fair, it's smart leadership to outnumber your opponent, the more the better but you're right that they kinda just used them as cannon fodder. I'm pretty sure Sauron and Melkor didn't JUST do that, though. They HAD strategies but those strategies were mostly just improving their units and personnel. Sauron just got baited into a mistake during the War of the Ring.



Hisoka Morrow said:


> Turin and Gwindor were controversial, for their seemingly unforgivable mistake such as Unnumbered Tears's 1st stage was forced by the majority of their colleagues or subordinates.



I ALMOST voted Túrin but my dude DID have a lot of success on a small scale. Seems to be where he's best implemented. He did eventually give into pride and fell into the same trap as Fëanor of overestimating himself. As Tolkien said of Sauron "he became...stupid."


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## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 29, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> I might as well mention Fingolfin's attempted but under-resourced invasion of Angband (possibly Gwindor's inspiration later)


Oh yes, but JRRT had mentioned that Fingolfin knew his "behead" act was the only chance to turn the table, at least according to his accurate calculation, thus his action was made according to his reasonable judge instead of emotional impulse.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 30, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> ...Beren & Felagund's failed assault on Minas Tirith while I am here . . .


Well, the strategics background forced them to do so. It's the first infiltration of the Free People if I am not wrong. It's Thingol's political conspiracy behind all this seemingly farce-like mission, and Beren & Felagund were out of chips in any bargain with him as all of their resources had been exhausted. This operation real commander, strictly speaking, was Thingol, not expecting it to be achieved in the first place.


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## m4r35n357 (Sep 30, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Well, the strategics background forced them to do so. It's the first infiltration of the Free People if I am not wrong. It's Thingol's political conspiracy behind all this seemingly farce-like mission, and Beren & Felagund were out of chips in any bargain with him as all of their resources had been exhausted. This operation real commander, strictly speaking, was Thingol, not expecting it to be achieved in the first place.


Yeah, that was an attempted "sneak" rather than attempted assault.

I take that one back!


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## Hisoka Morrow (Oct 3, 2021)

ZehnWaters said:


> I ALMOST voted Túrin but my dude DID have a lot of success on a small scale. Seems to be where he's best implemented. He did eventually give into pride and fell into the same trap as Fëanor of overestimating himself. As Tolkien said of Sauron "he became...stupid."


Well, even if Turin wasn't out of intelligence, his colleagues would force him to be so. JRRT had mentioned that the whole Doriath smoked up their might after several skirmishes victory.


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