# He who breaks a thing to find out what it is...



## gentleDrift (Sep 23, 2018)

_ "White!" [Saruman] sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."
"In which case it is no longer white," said [Gandalf]. "And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." _(The Council of Elrond)​That last line has always left me somewhat unsatisfied, although it definitely sounds good and is very memorable. It it a puzzling statement from the modern perspective; breaking white light does not "harm" the light, it is not literally breaking it. It is rather a process that increases our knowledge of light, and an important step in our understanding of how many things work. So how can I understand this?

One possibility is of course that the modern perspective does not apply here. But then, from what perspective would breaking light be a bad thing? Maybe when seeing light as a holy creation of Varda? Breaking Yavanna's creations could conceivably be considered bad or unwise, but is breaking light really comparable to e.g. disecting an animal? It is also of note that light is broken naturally, for example in a rainbow. (But then again, this could be argued to be a result of the discord of Melkor, similar to snow and other beautiful but originally unintended parts of creation.)
On the other hand, Gandalf might not be literally talking about breaking light (or at least not mainly), but rather about Saruman's scientific endeavors in general. This seems more likely to me.
On a literal level it also seems unusual that such a physical phenomenon is mentioned here, and it left me wondering who else in Middle-earth would have been scientifically advanced or interested enough to break light, and wether any of them would have "left the path of wisdom" by doing so.
Aule, Sauron, Feanor and the other Noldorin Elves, the Numenoreans, the Eregion smiths and the Dwarves all come to my mind here. Most of them also seem to come to some kind of "Fall" as well, but it is not clear to me that this is immediately connected with their technological advances, i.e. that technology to for example break light (a prism) is inherently an evil thing. Such technological creations certainly lend themselves to the fallacy of subcreation seen so often in the Silmarillion (which, if I understand it correctly, boils down to taking too much pride in ones own creation and thereby neglecting the fact that one was created by a higher being oneself). For example, Feanor certainly could break light, but the creation of the Silmarils (possibly using knowledge about light obtained by breaking it) as such does not seem to have been an evil deed, although it had evil consequences.

On a more metaphorical level I am struggling to come up with examples of someone in the text breaking something to find out what it is made of and thereby leaving the path of wisdom. The only example I could find was maybe the Numenoreans trying to enter Aman: By breaking the law or the existing structure to find out how to become immortal like the Elves and Valar they certainly left the path of wisdom. On the other hand, it is not really like they tried entering Aman to find out the secret of immortality, but rather that they already thought they knew it - that living in Aman itself would be sufficient.

This I guess would help me the most in understanding this passage: Where else in the text can this notion (of breaking something to see what it is made of being unwise) be seen? Are there any other examples of this other than Saruman breaking white light? 
I hope you can help me understand this, as at the moment the most I am getting out of this passage is a general opposition to science or technology (which is not surprising in Tolkien, but this statement seems to be more specific).


----------



## Alcuin (Sep 23, 2018)

gentleDrift said:


> Where else in the text can this notion (of breaking something to see what it is made of being unwise) be seen? Are there any other examples of this other than Saruman breaking white light?
> I hope you can help me understand this, as at the moment the most I am getting out of this passage is a general opposition to science or technology (which is not surprising in Tolkien, but this statement seems to be more specific).


Gandalf’s statement bothers me, too. 

I can think of two different paths one can take to break something to discover what it is. Both are destructive, but I am at a loss to see how the second is departing from the path of wisdom. 
A child breaking a clock. With the advent of electric and now electronic clocks, this is rarer than it was when I was a child (in the days we hunted sabre-toothed tigers). However, in the days of mechanical clocks, it was once not uncommon that an adult would arrive late to work, pleading the excuse that, “My son broke our alarm clock yesterday trying to discover how it worked.” My own son at age four took our alarm clock apart, put it back together, and proudly proclaimed, “Look at all the parts I have left over!” It did work, and it did keep good time, but we were ever after suspicious of it.
Particle accelerators. To investigate subatomic particles, physicists have built massive particle accelerators to smash them into sub-subatomic pieces. It can hardly be denied that the knowledge gained from such investigations has proven vain: we understand not only the constituent parts of atoms, but the numerous cousins of electrons, protons, and neutrons, as well as their constituent parts, the quarks. I cannot imagine how scientists would know these things unless they had first conducted these experiments.

I do not think “breaking” in the sense of “breaking” the ban on the Númenórean against sailing West out of sight of their island is the same sense as “breaking” as Gandalf and Saruman are using it; and anyway, had the Númenóreans succeeded in their invasion, their extended lives would have been an unbearable misery, as it is not the nature of Men to live unending physical lives in Tolkien’s universe, as the embassy from Valinor warned Tar-Atanamir, who would not listen to their arguments. 

Tolkien does not strike me as someone necessarily opposed to science. (Though he seems to have despised automobiles: _Mr. Bliss_ suffered the same indignity as Tolkien, wrecking the one automobile he ever owned, never trying again to drive one.) He speaks well of science in his _Letters_, and notes that the Noldor were particularly attracted to science and technology.


----------



## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 23, 2018)

To me, it always seemed more a rhetorical flourish, than anything invested with deep meaning.

I could be wrong.


----------



## Elthir (Sep 23, 2018)

I think it's more of a poetic warning about, for examples, the possible loss of essence, mystery, and/or beauty, rather than something that necessarily fits all examples.

If you break a ball to find its bounce, now you have neither


----------



## Desert Loon (Sep 23, 2018)

Glad I'm not the only one who hesitates at this. I resonate to Gandalf's words, in a purity of principle. In my mind it expresses an ideal of perfect wisdom that has no need for making any investigations, an ideal wisdom that in my mind (and I attribute this to my religious perspective) would come only be revelation. Along with that would go the need for everyone to live so perfectly that they would get everything revealed at the right time.

It's so Edenic, this idea, and so Nirvana-like, maybe Pleromatic. And the problem is that this is all the state of perfection wherein there's no more purpose, because there's no movement, no growth.

I think of the alchemical principles of Solve et Coagula: breaking down and putting together. I think of the suits of the Tarot deck: Swords representing intellect, how the analytical mind cuts, distinguishes, separates things into categories, and how this must be done in the service of some aim rather than purely as an end in itself: love not the sword for its sharpness, but what it protects.

In my theological thinking, again resulting from my religious background, I have a concept of a departure from wisdom, a necessity of breaking and leaving and erring - a Fall, a descent from an unreflecting unaware (and therefore meaningless) wholeness into a world of opposites, into an existence dependent on opposites, on knowing and judging between differences . . . there's a path of wisdom that maybe a Wizard doesn't need to depart from, but mortals absolutely must, in order to follow a meta-path of wisdom, of growth through the world of opposites, imperfections and conflicts to arrive in a meaningful way into a state of perfection that is self-aware.


----------



## Valandil (Oct 18, 2018)

I think that Saruman was breaking other - more important - things, than an instance of the color white. And I think Gandalf was cautioning him about it. He was breaking from his mission, perhaps breaking his word, breaking with good sense and decency (by making use of Orcs - though Gandalf appears not to have known this at the time... perhaps he still sensed the depravity and power-obsession which had grown inside of Saruman).


----------



## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 18, 2018)

Though I still regard it mostly as a bit of verbal exuberance on Gandalf's (and Tolkien's) part, I would concede that it could be connected with Saruman's delving into "technology" -- in ME terms, at least; something which led him to invent "blasting fire", for instance.

And of course, Gandalf knew that Saruman had made a special study of the lore of the rings; he may have become increasingly uneasy about it, and would certainly be alarmed by Saruman's claim to the title of "Ring-maker".

Oh, say, Valandil, it's good see a veteran member back -- you make a newbie like me feel like a tadpole!


----------



## Just Another Hobbit (Jun 14, 2020)

According to Joseph Pearce in his book _Frodo's Journey_, he argues that white light for Gandalf means "the unity of all light, signifying the unity of all goodness. By contrast, black is the absence of all light, signifying evil. Gandalf's view is that of Tolkien;s own Christian moral perspective, following the teaching of St. Augustine, that evil has no substantial existence in itself (because God does not create evil things) but is merely the absence of the light of goodness... In disdaining the white, Saruman is not being wise, as he thinks, but foolish, a fact Gandalf highlights when he insists that Saruman 'has left the path of wisdom'" (Pearce, p. 57). Saruman's pride makes him believe that he can go beyond white and black, beyond good and evil. He believes that he can subject goodness to his will instead of being subject to it. Thus he has embraced moral relativism.

I'd also like to emphasize that Gandalf claims that to break something to understand merely what it is is unwise. So Gandalf is not necessarily opposing science or technology, but the scientific method is full of observations and tests (so there isn't much breaking involved) to understand what it is or how it works.

It is also important to remember that this is probably more of an allegory than a discussion about science, tho if Tolkien were still alive then I'm sure he'd have plenty to say about it🤣


----------



## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 14, 2020)

Good point, and welcome to the forum! Always good to see more Hobbits here.  If you like, introduce yourself "formally" in the New Members forum, where you can share where your special interests lie.

Have you read Shippey's "Author of the Century"? There, he argues a tension existed in Tolkien's work between two views of evil: that you outline --- evil as the mere absence of good -- which he calls the "Boethian" view, and the other, a "Manichean" view, which sees evil as an active force.


----------



## Deleted member 12094 (Jun 15, 2020)

Valandil said:


> I think that Saruman was breaking other - more important - things, than an instance of the color white. And I think Gandalf was cautioning him about it. He was breaking from his mission, perhaps breaking his word, breaking with good sense and decency (by making use of Orcs - though Gandalf appears not to have known this at the time... perhaps he still sensed the depravity and power-obsession which had grown inside of Saruman).



Valandil’s interpretation is very similar to mine. The Valar had shown a clear path forward for the Istari:

_their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men or Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt._​
Saruman had abandoned this mission – the “path of wisdom” – to pursue other objectives; the metaphor can be that other colors were getting “mixed” into the original pure white.

I am not sure if this is a complete explanation of these mysterious words though… amazing, by how many different ways one can look at this.


----------



## Aramarien (Jun 15, 2020)

Just Another Hobbit said:


> So Gandalf is not necessarily opposing science or technology, but the scientific method is full of observations and tests (so there isn't much breaking involved) to understand what it is or how it works.


Tolkien is one of the few authors that one can play semantics with. He was careful with his wording. Tolkien didn't say "examine" or "investigate" or even " take apart". He said _*break.* _Even with white light that is broken down by a prism, the source, the white light, is still there to make the rainbow.
When Gandalf says "breaks a thing", he might mean the connotation of the symbolism of the word _white_.
Prior to this exchange, Saruman greets Gandalf as "Gandalf the _*Grey*_". One can almost hear the sneer and condescending tone in his voice. Saruman claims is now _*Saruman of Many Colours. *_He is rebelling against his mission as Merroe say: 


Merroe said:


> Saruman had abandoned this mission – the “path of wisdom” – to pursue other objectives; the metaphor can be that other colors were getting “mixed” into the original pure white.



Breaking a thing to see what it is, is destroying it, to discover a secret, not necessarily to gain wisdom. To break a palantir, for example to see what it is, will not give you the answer of how it works to discover, learn, and examine. 
As I started thinking more and more about this, I realized that Sauron was Melkor's servant and is more or less continuing his work, although he is now ruling. Saruman, on the other hand, is more like Melkor. He is rebelling completely against those who he was serving. He is trying to rule on his own and make Middle Earth as he sees fit. Although he is talking to Gandalf about joining with Sauron, but that is only a means to an end. He wants to have the One Ring and rule everything.


----------



## Alcuin (Jun 16, 2020)

Aramarien said:


> As I started thinking more and more about this, I realized that Sauron was Melkor's servant and is more or less continuing his work, although he is now ruling. Saruman, on the other hand, is more like Melkor. He is rebelling completely against those who he was serving. He is trying to rule on his own and make Middle Earth as he sees fit. Although he is talking to Gandalf about joining with Sauron, but that is only a means to an end. He wants to have the One Ring and rule everything.


I had never considered that perspective before. It certainly puts Saruman in a much more ominous light. 

Both Sauron and Saruman are goal-focused: _The ends justify the means._ So is Denethor. This position is soundly rejected by Bilbo (in _The Hobbit_, at least as regards Gollum, though not the Arkenstone), Gandalf, Aragorn, Elrond, Galadriel, and Faramir, as well as Frodo and eventually even Samwise. I think it may be a recurring theme of the story, as well as appearing in _The Silmarillion_.


----------



## Rivendell_librarian (Jun 18, 2020)

Rather than the idea of a prism is it that Saruman has broken his purpose and identity by changing the colour of his cloak. We have Gandalf the Grey, Radagast the Brown and Saruman the White etc. The wizards were defined by their colours and Saruman has broken with his identity, his purpose., by changing (breaking) his colour.


----------

