# 🧙‍♂️ How old is Gandalf?



## WizardKing

Anyone know?


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## Celebthôl

He is as old as Arda if not older i.e. he was born before Arda was created i think!


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## Anamatar IV

I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf.


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## Celebthôl

well he was the wisest of the Maia, is says in the Sil, so i guess he did/was in the song!


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## morello13

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf. *



wait, this is new to me, not all of the order of ainur sang in the themes of eru?


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## Sarah

very


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## Anamatar IV

I mean Gandalf may not have been alive.


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## BlackCaptain

First of all, since Gandalf is a Maiar, he has two ages kindof

Gandalf the Spirit is as old as all of Arda itself.

Gandalf the Wizard is (if he stops living once he gets to Valinor) exactly 2021 years old.


All of the Istari reached middle earth 1000 years into the third age, and since the third age lasted until 3021, when the ringbearers departed from the Gray Havens, do the math, and you get 2021 years of age. 




GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD.
GANDALF'S SPIRIT IS AS OLD AS ARDA


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## Mithlond

I'm pretty sure _all_ the Ainur came into being at the same time, when Eru thought of them.
Never have i got the impression from the Silm that any Ainur came into being at different intervals, they may have descended into Arda at different times, but their presence was still around, elsewhere.

So, what i mean is..i believe Gandalf/Olorin was apart of the music.


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## BlackCaptain

That would mean something...
But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.
This question depends on "wich Gandalf" your talking about.
If you want to know how old the Physical form of Gandalf is, hes 2021. The spirit of Gandalf is as old as Arda.

But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name, so his spirit cant be called Gandalf. He was given the name Gandalf by the inhabatants of Middle-Earth, so since there was no Gandalf before his spirit came to middleearth in the form of a man...


GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD


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## Sirion

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *
> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name,
> 
> GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD *



And what of Olorin, who walked in the woods of Lorien in the Day before days.


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## Mithlond

MorgulKing wrote:


> But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.


Maiar _are_ Ainur. The Ainur consists of the Valar and Maiar.



> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name


_Olorin_ was the Maia spirits name who later became embodied as Gandalf.


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## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking, good job.

If I wanted the answer to this nitpicky question, I would use your figure.


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## Lantarion

That's _Olórin_, with the accent!  

I've always had the impression that only the greatest of the Ainur (ie. the Valar) participated in the Music.. But I suppose it's possible that the Maiar also sang in it.
And I believe that Olórin was born along with the first of the Maiar; he was a Maia of Manwë, wasn't he? So he is actually older than Arda, IMHO.


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## BlackCaptain

FIrst of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though

And no, Maiar are NOT Ainur. Valar, and Ainur are the same, unless my memory is mistaken...

But thats not the point, we can discuss what Ainur, and Valar and MAiar are another time.

The point is, Gandalf was never actually Gandalf until he was given the Body of a Man. Gandalf, therefor, is 2021. Who knows about his spirit... 

And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.

theres like, 4 "Gandalfs" we could be guessing at the age, and Gandalf the Gray/White is simply, about 2000 years old


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## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking said:

"First of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though."

Oops! Gandalf **himself** in LOTR states that he has many names, and one of them was Olorin! ("Olorin I was long ago" he said.)

There is a passage in the Ainulendale or the Valaquenta or something that talks about Olorin, and his time in Valinor, prior to the appearance of the Istari. Not sure about the details though; need my book.  (OOC: O for a Harry Potter wand! Accio Silmarillion!)


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## BlackCaptain

Wizard King, so we can finaly get this strait, can you tell us:
-Did you want to know how old Gandalf the Gray was?
-Or how old his spirit/life force is?

We must know


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## Ghan-buri-ghan

Gandalf obviously has some memory of being a Maia before he became one of the Istari. But he was an Istari only from the time he landed at the Gray Havens. 

I still like Morgulking's calculation.


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## BlackCaptain

Thank you

Thank you.


I find alot of my information, and became the Loremaster that i am, from a certain book.
It's called "Characters from Tolkien" and it has a sketchy picture of Gandalf on the cover. Im sure they sell it at Barnse and Noble, or another major bookseller. They have a map of all of Arda, and illistrations of all of the major events of Arda, from the fasioning of the Great Lamps, to the Flight of the Noldor, to the Destruction of Mordor. And a LOT AND LOT of information concerning all of the creatures, or beings of middle earth, and Aman


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## Beorn

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.*



Other way around. Gandalf was Olorin in physical form...and Maia are lesser Ainur.


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## Mithlond

> And no, Maiar are NOT Ainur. Valar, and Ainur are the same, unless my memory is mistaken...


Indeed, Loremaster, your memory is mistaken. I know you said there is no need to discuess this right now, but i dont think people should be mislead..


> With the Valar came other spirits whose being also began before the World, *of the same order* as the Valar but of a less degree


_Taken from the Silmarillion; *Of the Maiar*_

This *order* that Tolkien speaks of is the Ainur.
There are a great many more references to Maiar being Ainur along with the Valar, in the Silmarillion and the Histories of Middle-earth.
Lastly, a quote from the Encyclopedia of Arda.


> The many lesser Ainur that accompanied the Valar into Arda are known as Maiar.


Now, i know the Encyclopedia of Arda isnt _written_ by Tolkien, but it still is quite a reliable source of information. And seeing as you trust in your _Characters of Tolkien_ book quite a bit, which too isnt written by Tolkien, then you can also trust in the Encyclopedia's information.


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## Lantarion

Sounds like a great book; althuogh it can't be that good if it doesn't state what gandalf real name is.. 
Here are some quotes from Unfinished Tales, The Istari:


> Olórin is a High-elven name, and must therefore have been given to him in Valinor by the Eldar, or be a 'translation' meant to be significant to them. In either case, what was the significance of the name, given or assumed? _Olor_ is a word often translated 'dream', but that does not refer to (most) human 'dreams', certainly not the dreams of sleep. To the Eldar it included the vivid contents of their _memory_, as of their _imagination_: it referred in fact to _clear vision_, in the mind, of things not physically present at the body's situation. But not only to an idea, but to a full clothing of this in particular form and detail.





> Words deriving from this root are cited: Quenya _olos_, 'dream, vision', plural _olozi/olori_; _ola-_ (impersonal) 'to dream; _olosta_ 'dreamy'. A reference is then made to _Olofantur_, which was the earlier 'true' name of Lórien, the Vala who was 'master of visions and dreams', before it was changed to _Irmo_ in the Silmarillion (as _Nurufantur_ was changed to _Námo_ (Mandos): though the plural _Fëanturi_ for these two 'brethren' survived in the _Valaquenta_).
> These discussions of _olos_, _olor_ are clearly to be connected with the passage in the _Valaquenta_ where it is said that Olórin dwelt in Lórien in Valinor, and that though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put in their hearts.


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## LordOfMoria

*Gandlaf's age*

How old is gandalf? I know he looks old but has the strength of a grown man like physical wise and junk. and why were wizards sent to middle earth? To stop sauron?


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## redline2200

I am not sure but I think the wizards were sent to Middle-earth in 2000 of the Third age ( The war of the ring is in 3019 of the 3rd age. that puts Gandalf on middle earth for approx 1000 years). The Istari (wizards) were sent to middle earth to rally men and elves to stop sauron. They were forbidden to use open displays of their true power to stop Sauron, so all they could do is encourage elves and men instead of directly interfering with sauron.


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## redline2200

I was wrong, it says in the Return of the King, Appendix B, that the wizards appeared on Middle-earth in about the 1000th year of the third age (at the same time that Dol Guldur appeared in Greenwood). That means Gandalf has been on Middle-earth for over 2,000 years.


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## gate7ole

Gandalf is a Maiar, that means a spirit that existed before Arda. So, he can't be measured in years, because he existed before Time.
But if you ask about the incarnate Gandalf then redline2200 gave you the answer.
And the Istari (wizards) were sent to confront Sauron, but not opposing their power against hi, but by urging men to take action.
When Sauron was defeated, Gandalf said: "I must leave now. I was the enemy of Sauron and he no longer exists." His task was completed and he could return to Aman.


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## BlackCaptain

I remember doing the math on a thread long ago, and he is 2021 years old. He came into Middle Earth as Gandalf 1000years into the 1st age, i think, and he lived till the end of the third, or remained Gandalf until the end of the third. 2021 years


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## LordOfMoria

so why did gandalf die? how i mean how?


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## FoolOfATook

Gandalf the Grey died from an extended battle with a Balrog, but other than that, our favorite wizard rarely suffered from sudden attacks of mortality.


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## LordOfMoria

ok i know he "dies" in moria and on the lowest dungeon on the highest peak he defeats a Balrog, but i thought wizards were immortal as elves? How did he face mortality?


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## LordOfMoria

Oh and doesnt he go into the west to Valinor with the elves and frodo and elrond or whoever????


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## Niniel

Gandalf is a Maia, a spirit, so he has no mortal body. When he was sent to ME, he received a mortal body. This body, though stronger than a normal human body, could be killed in battle, as happened when he fought the Balrog. But that was only his mortal body, his real being, his spirit, didn't die, because it is immortal. So only the mortal body Gandalf uses can be killed, but he himself can't.


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## lossenandunewen

but if gandalf's body can be destroyed, why did he return in the same body with new clothes.


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## FoolOfATook

It was a new body, but it was still in the form that the Istari took on in Middle-earth- as an old man.


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## BlackCaptain

> _Originally posted by Niniel _
> *Gandalf is a Maia, a spirit, so he has no mortal body. When he was sent to ME, he received a mortal body. This body, though stronger than a normal human body, could be killed in battle, as happened when he fought the Balrog. But that was only his mortal body, his real being, his spirit, didn't die, because it is immortal. So only the mortal body Gandalf uses can be killed, but he himself can't. *



Olorin is a Maia. Gandalf was Olorin in the form of a man. 

And Gandalf the gray dies fighting the Balrog andis reincarnated as Gandalf the White. I just assume that his lifespan ends at 2021 years old because that's when he goes into the West, and the book ends. Really, Gandalf the Gray is 2010 years old, because he dies fighting the Balrog. Gandalf the White is 11 years old. hehe. Gandalf's 11! But suriously, because he is reincarnated, and lives about 10 years as Gandalf the White. or is it 20 years?...


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## Niniel

We got you the first time... But where did you get 11? Gandalf the White has been alive for three years or something when Gandalf goes to the West? Or am I missing something?


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## Grond

Here's a tidbit of info given to us by the author.


> _from Unfinished Tales, The Istari_
> Among Men they were supposed (at first) by those that had dealings with them to be Men who had acquired lore and arts by long and secret study. They first appeared in Middle-earth about the year 1000 of the Third Age, but for long they went about in simple guise, as it were of Men already old in years but hale in body, travellers and wanderers, gaining knowledge of Middle-earth and all that dwelt therein, but revealing to none their powers and purposes. In that time Men saw them seldom and heeded them little. But as the shadow of Sauron began to grow and take shape again, they became more active and sought ever to contest the growth of the Shadow, and to move Elves and Men to beware of their peril. Then far and wide rumour of their comings and goings, and their meddling in many matters, was noised about the Men; and Men perceived that they did not die, but remained the same (unless it were that they aged somewhat in looks), while the fathers and sons of Men passed away. Men, therefore, grew to fear them, even when they loved them, and they were held to be of the Elven-race (with whom, indeed, they often consorted).
> 
> Yet they were not so. For they came from over the Sea out of the Uttermost West; though this was for long known only to Círdan, Guardian of the Third Ring, master of the Grey Havens, who saw their landings upon the western shores. Emissaries they were from Lords of the West, the Valar, who still took counsel for the governance of Middle-earth, and when the shadow of Sauron began first to stir again took this means of resisting him. For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years. And this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they had attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their own might and glory fully revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.


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## ???

Don't you guys read the books. No one knows his real age.


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## BlackCaptain

It depends on what Gandalf were talkin about:

Gandalf the Gray - 2010
Gandalf the White - 11
Olorin - As old as Arda


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## Grond

> _Originally posted by ??? _
> *Don't you guys read the books. No one knows his real age. *


We know the time (or very close) when Gandalf the Gray was incarnated in Valinor. We know to the day and date when Gandalf the White was resurrected by the Valar/Eru. We know that Olorin was an Ainu of Eru and, thus, has no age as he pre-dates the creation of Ea. 

One should check their sources before they make such a bold statement as the one you made ???.

P. S. I don't just read the books, I study the books.


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## LordOfMoria

I think that is incredible that you or anyone just cant read the books, u have to study them!!!!!


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## BlackCaptain

LordofMoria, just out of curiosity, why do you have Gandalf in your avatar? Im just curious


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## LordOfMoria

Ah hell, i dont know, i put him in their cause Moria was my fav. part in the fellowship and Gandalf overthrew the Balrog and their for, i say he is LordOfMoria!!!! For a time being of course. If that doesnt make since, its becuase i just made it up!!!!


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## BlackCaptain

haha... well between you and me and... well... anyone who reads this thread, my avatar is really the mouth of Sauron. It just looks really cool


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## Grond

> _Originally posted by LordOfMoria _
> *I think that is incredible that you or anyone just cant read the books, u have to study them!!!!! *


 ROFL! I can just read them and I don't have to study them. I read and study the books because I absolutely love them and desire to develop a decent amount of Tolkien knowledge to be able to adequately moderate on this forum and to try and help educate others about Tolkien's works through our Guild of Tolkienology. 

I have other hobbies which include tennis and golf to name a few. Tolkien is one of my hobbies and I also have an extensive library of his works which include first editions, first printings of many of his later works.


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## Turin

He says in the movie that he walked this earth 300 lives of men. I hope that helps.


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## Grond

> _Originally posted by turin56 _
> *He says in the movie that he walked this earth 300 lives of men. I hope that helps. *


 Sorry turin56, but the movie is hardly an encyclopedia of correctness as far as the Lord of the Rings is concerned. 

Gandalf is the Maia, Olorin who is ageless. He is a Ainu from beyond Ea and is of the house of Manwe. He was placed in earthly body around 1000 Third Age. He died while vanquishing the Balrog and was restored as Gandalf the White on February 17, 3019 Third Age. So his first earthly body of Gandalf the Grey was some 2019 years old when he died.


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## Ithrynluin

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> * He is a Ainu from beyond Ea and is of the house of Manwe. *



Though there is evidence for both sides, Olórin is more likely to be a Maia of Irmo, the Vala od dreams and visions.

1. His name bears great resemblance to one of Irmo's names, Olofantur. Both have the element "olo(ri)" which means "dreams".

2. From The Silmarillion, the Valaquenta: 


> Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He too dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience.
> for though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put into their hearts. In later days he was the friend of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and took pity on their sorrows; and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginations of darkness.



This quote also supports the view of Olórin being a Maia of Lórien. He dwelt there (this is not exactly the firmest possible evidence, but it could indicate his being part of the people of Irmo), but more importantly, his description tells us that he was skilled with visions and dreams.


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## Grond

I should have stated, IMHO, Gandalf/Olorin was a Maia of Manwe. Based on UT, it is clear that he was "chosen" by none other than Manwe and this footnote makes it clear that at one time Tolkien considered him as being a Maia of Manwe.


> _from Unfinished Tales, The Istari_
> ...On another page of jottings clearly belonging to the same period it is said that "Curumo was obliged to take Aiwendil to please Yavanna wife of Aulë." There are here also some rough tables relating the names of the Istari to the names of the Valar: *Olórin to Manwë and Varda*, Curumo to Aulë, Aiwendil to Yavanna, Alatar to Oromë, and Pallando also to Oromë (but this replaces Pallando to Mandos and Nienna).


Of course, there is also this that is said in the same chapter...


> _same source_
> Olor is a word often translated "dream", but that does not refer to (most) human "dreams," certainly not the dreams of sleep. To the Eldar it included the vivid contents of their memory, as of their imagination: it referred in fact to clear vision, in the mind, of things not physically present at the body's situation. But not only to an idea, but to a full clothing of this in particular form and detail.
> 
> An isolated etymological note explains the meaning similarly:
> olo's: vision, "phantasy:" Common Elvish name for "construction of the mind" not actually (pre)existing in Ëa apart from the construction, but by the Eldar capable of being by Art (Karmë) made visible and sensible. Olos is usually applied to fair construction having solely an artistic object (i.e. not having the object of deception, or of acquiring power).
> 
> Words deriving from this root are cited: Quenya olos "dream, vision," plural olozi/olori; õla- (impersonal) "to dream;" olosta "dreamy." A reference is then made to Olofantur, which was the earlier "true" name of Lórien, the Vala who was "master of visions and dreams," before it was changed to Irmo in The Silmarillion (as Nurufantur was changed to Námo (Mandos): though the plural Fëanturi for these two "brethren" survived in the Valaquenta).
> 
> These discussion of olos, olor are clearly to be connected with the passage in the Valaquenta (The Silmarillion pp.30-1) where it is said that Olórin dwelt in Lórien in Valinor...


None of these quotes state that Olorin is affiliated with Namo or Lorien, only that his name and his place of residence would do so. The only specific reference in UT is the one at the top of my quote that states he was of Manwe and Varda.

Yet, there is also this which clearly insinuates that he is, indeed, directly related to Irmo.


> _from HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring, The Later Quenta Silmarillion_
> And wise was Olorin, *counsellor of Irmo*: secret enemy of the secret evils of Melkor, for his bright visions drove away the imaginations of darkness.


So.... whose to say... except J. R. R. T.


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## Meldon

*Gandalf is 2021,

*And Olórin is as old as Arda(or older), as he is one of the Ainur, Valar and Maiar are both Ainur. The only difference is their power.


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## Maksim Kakitsev

I'm pretty sure that Olorin (Gandalf in Valinor) had a physical body. In fact, all denizens of Valinor did. Perhaps he just made himself look like an old man when coming to the Middle-Earth.

So yeah, Gandalf (or the being we know as Gandalf) is as old as other Maiar. He was there when the world was made. So were Saruman and Sauron, they are Maia too.


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## Erestor Arcamen

Maksim Kakitsev said:


> I'm pretty sure that Olorin (Gandalf in Valinor) had a physical body. In fact, all denizens of Valinor did. Perhaps he just made himself look like an old man when coming to the Middle-Earth.
> 
> So yeah, Gandalf (or the being we know as Gandalf) is as old as other Maiar. He was there when the world was made. So were Saruman and Sauron, they are Maia too.



Actually it says in the Silmarillion they did not have physical bodies, they were spirits that took the forms of men and/or elves:



> _Now the Valar took to themselves shape and hue; and because they were drawn into the World by love of the Children of Ilúvatar, for whom they hoped they took shape after that manner which they had beheld in the Vision of Ilúvatar, save only in majesty and splendour. _*Moreover their shape comes of the knowledge of the visible World, rather than of the World itself*_; and thy need it not, save only as we use raiment, and yet we may be naked and suffer no loss of our being. *Therefore the Valar may walk, if they will, unclad, and then even the Eldar cannot clearly perceive them, though they be present.* _*But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female*_; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby. _*But the shapes wherein the Great Ones array themselves are not at all times like to the shapes of the kings and queens of the Children of Ilúvatar; for at times they may clothe themselves in their own thought, made visible in forms of majesty and dread*_._


This just seems to say to me that they didn't have physical bodies that they were required to use, they were, as the quote says, just like clothing for their spirits. 
The quote was originally posted by Gothmog in this thread:
http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?9391-Appearance-of-the-Valar


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## Vishwanath

Gandalf was one of people of Manwe he is Olorin(a maia) in the spirit world but is sent to be the enemy of sauron in the third age with 4 other companion Aiwendil(Radgast),Curumo(Saruman),Alatar and Pallando(The blue wizards) when Gandalf left middle earth he was about 2000 years old but his real age is unknown,He along with the other Aianur is older than arda itself.


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## OfRhosgobel

He and the other Istari arrived sometime around 1000 in the Third Age of Sun and Moon. So by the war of the ring he was roughly about over 2000. But his immortal spirit has existed before Arda even came into being, like all other Maiar. Hope this answers your question 



Erestor Arcamen said:


> Actually it says in the Silmarillion they did not have physical bodies, they were spirits that took the forms of men and/or elves:
> 
> 
> This just seems to say to me that they didn't have physical bodies that they were required to use, they were, as the quote says, just like clothing for their spirits.
> The quote was originally posted by Gothmog in this thread:
> http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?9391-Appearance-of-the-Valar



All Valar and Maiar have the ability to change their appearance and can theirfore take on the form of any race upon Arda. Though the wizards(Istari) were made in the forms of old Men. It would seem that Radaghast was the only Istari to be able to change his form!



Maksim Kakitsev said:


> I'm pretty sure that Olorin (Gandalf in Valinor) had a physical body. In fact, all denizens of Valinor did. Perhaps he just made himself look like an old man when coming to the Middle-Earth.
> 
> So yeah, Gandalf (or the being we know as Gandalf) is as old as other Maiar. He was there when the world was made. So were Saruman and Sauron, they are Maia too.



Gandalf(Olorin) was not able to choose his physical form. This was the command of Manwe; that all the Istari come to Middle-Earth in the forms of men and not be allowed to exist in Middle-Earth in the fullness of their power. He made them to suffer from hurt and famine and know the weariness of mortal existense. For Manwe did not want a direct contest of power between the Istari and Sauron, he wanted them to get Men, Elves, and Dwarfs to handle their own problems and defeat Sauron without divine intervention.


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## Sauron

OfRhosgobel said:


> Gandalf(Olorin) was not able to choose his physical form. This was the command of Manwe; that all the Istari come to Middle-Earth in the forms of men and not be allowed to exist in Middle-Earth in the fullness of their power. He made them to suffer from hurt and famine and know the weariness of mortal existense. For Manwe did not want a direct contest of power between the Istari and Sauron, he wanted them to get Men, Elves, and Dwarfs to handle their own problems and defeat Sauron without divine intervention.



So the Istari (being Maia) certainly had the power (if they were allowed to use all of it) to overcome Sauron, is what you are saying?


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## Erestor Arcamen

Not the complete power to overcome Sauron, but they had powers...we're not told how strong they were compared to Sauron so really can't say they would be able to overcome or defeat him for sure, but if they had full use of their power, I'm sure they could hold their own for a little while.


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## Pham

If you go by the movies, he has been in corporeal form for approx. 21,000 years.

"Three hundred lives of men have I walked this earth and now, I have no time." - Gandalf the white, the two towers.

If we figure the average age for a man in middle earth to be 70 (which I think is eminently reasonable), then you get: 300 x 70 = 21,000 years.

Everyone keeps saying 2019 years or 2100 years ...

Either they made a major goof in the movie with that quote, or everyone online is off on his (human form) age by a factor of 10.

Maths, people...


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## Elthir

But why go by the films?

The Tale of Years, Third Age: "When maybe a thousand years had passed, and the first shadow had fallen on Greenwood the Great, the Istari or Wizards appeared in Middle-earth." And "c. 1100 The Wise (the Istari and the chief Eldar)..." Appendix B, The Return of the King

Olorin is obviously a far older spirit, able to appear as an Elf among Elves for example, but it seems a bit odd to me if one were to say Gandalf is the same age as Olorin, since Gandalf is a specific "old sage figure" incarnation, sent to Middle-earth for a specific purpose.

In my opinion


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