# Stone Giants in the Hobbit



## RangerStryder (Mar 24, 2009)

What are your thoughts regarding the Stone Giants mentioned in 'The Hobbit'?


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## YayGollum (Mar 25, 2009)

That Tolkien dude didn't write enough about them.

Trolls were made from Ents that Mel messed with, and stone giants were made from the really big Ents that Mel mess with.

Caradhras is tied to them. Mayhaps lots of them lived there. Mayhaps Caradhras is an unfriendly Ainur type thing, and the stone giants are spirits of a similar nature.

We're supposed to ignore them, since that The Hobbit book is just written for children, and stone giants are sometimes seen to be things that should only be found in stories for kids. Even though that Tolkien dude got to edit that The Hobbit book as much as he wanted, and he didn't take them out. Also, even though giants are in all kinds of stories that can be made for or, at the least, appreciated by adults.


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## Illuin (Mar 25, 2009)

Have no idea. Tolkien mentions _Giants _in _BoLT I & II_ (i.e. _Luthien’s spell - one of the Monster-folk_). Treebeard was originally going to be a malevolent giant in his early stages of development. Gandalf hopes to find _"a more or less decent giant"_ to block the goblin‘s pass, so it would seem these giants were on _no one’s side_, and like Shadowfax, could be tamed if the situation was _"handled with care"._ Maybe those _"nameless things that gnawed the world far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves; that even Sauron knows not; and are older than he"_, surfaced once in awhile for some _fun in the sun _. Maybe the _Stone Giants_ are nature spirits akin to Bombadil, only their realm is confined to the stone within the mountains.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Jul 8, 2009)

Fascinating ideas, all. There might be some grand ideas here for a fanfic or RP. I wish I was of the talent or inclination to make such a thing.

Personally I'm most inclined to think of them as kind of the stone equivalent of Ents, spirits of the mountains as it were, with a bit more wild animal and a good deal less "guardian" to their nature. Very much an unpredictable force of nature, which is the fun thing about them. They might be or do anything.

EDIT: I just realized one second after posting how much my words remind me of the Greek Titans, which is not at all what I had in mind but is quite apropos, actually. I doubt Tolkien would have meant any kind of equivalence there, or really anywhere, the giants are what they are, but it's interesting to consider.


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## Bucky (Jul 8, 2009)

Illuin with the answer....

I, never being one who could stand reading BOLT, always thought the stone giants were just an afterthought thrown in by Tolkien that was never developed or lined up with the rest of his indepth ideas of Middle-earth in TLOR or The Silmarillion, much like the Wild Were-worms of the last Desert.

In light of what Illuin said, I suppose Tolkien would've wrote the stone giants out or perhaps changed them to 'stone-trolls' or 'mountain trolls'?

Then again, perhaps giants & trolls are just interchangable?


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## Turgon (Jan 16, 2010)

I think there is still a place for giants after The Hobbit. They were a big part of Norse Myth and could be slipped into the larger legendarium if Tolkien had a mind to expand on them. My view is though if something is in The Hobbit and is not contridicted by The Lord of The Rings then it is just a valid as anything in LoTR and maybe more so than anything published in the (unpublished) Silmarillion.

I actually loved the scene of the giants chucking rocks about as a lad, it really evoked a feeling grandeur for me, this sense that Middle-earth was a grand exciting place. Which I now think was quite apt considering Bilbo's own awaking near the start of the book. Hey if the Red Book says Bilbo saw giants - then Bilbo saw giants.


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## Alcuin (Jan 18, 2010)

The Ettenmoors, north of Rivendell, are named for the giants, are they not: _etten_ = _giants_? Giants, trolls – since the trolls turned to stone when they encountered the sun. perhaps stone-giants might be interpreted as “trolls”, the same sorts of creatures Thorin & Co encountered in the woods (in Rhudaur) that tried to eat them – Bill, Bert, and Tom. 

There is a new edition of _The Hobbit_, _History of the Hobbit_, that I have not read. If there is anyone who has read it, does it shed any light on this?


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## Firawyn (Jan 18, 2010)

I have not read it, but it looks amazing! I'll keep an eye our for it in local bookstores (cheaper), any luck. Either I pay and arm and a leg in the states, or I import a cheap copy and pay and arm and a leg for shipping. SO, I shall wait until it filers into Tucson's local bookstores.


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## Elthir (Jan 18, 2010)

John Rateliff (History of The Hobbit) has an interesting section on the giants, but IIRC they generally remain mysterious.

Tolkien did start _The Hobbit_ over to make it fit better with _The Lord of the Rings_, but he abandoned it before the giants. It would have been interesting here.


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## Bucky (Jan 19, 2010)

Alcuin said:


> The Ettenmoors, north of Rivendell, are named for the giants, are they not: _etten_ = _giants_? Giants, trolls – since the trolls turned to stone when they encountered the sun. perhaps stone-giants might be interpreted as “trolls”, the same sorts of creatures Thorin & Co encountered in the woods (in Rhudaur) that tried to eat them – Bill, Bert, and Tom.



*You know, being totally illiterate in the languages of Middle-earth, that is very enlightening......

And, it makes perfect sense. 
To a little person like Bilbo, who wrote The Hobbit, a troll is most certainly a giant. And lest we forget, these stories ARE written from a Hobbit's point of view.

Take the description of the Black Men of Far Harad in 'The Battle of Pelannor Fields':

'out of Far Harad black men like half trolls with white eyes and red tongues.'

Is Tolkien being a rascist here?

No, I don't think so. He's just describing what a Hobbit might think who never saw an African warrior before.

We also need to remember that to Hobbits the terms 'giants' and 'trolls' might be just as interchangable as 'goblins' and 'orcs' are.*


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## Elthir (Jan 19, 2010)

The story also tells that Bilbo sat in the dark: 'thinking of all the horrible names of all the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales'. In any case, one would also have to consider that Gandalf thinks he can find a 'more or less decent giant'.

Perhaps, _if_ the stone giants were to be imagined as some kind of troll, this latter statement could really be attributed to Bilbo? an imaginative Hobbit -- considering a certain troll -- _with respect to certain poetry_ in the Red book, at least. Although maybe there are other considerations with this idea as well.

According to draft texts for _The Lord of the Rings_, giants (in general) were seemingly distinguished from trolls (the following are not the only examples of the word _giant(s)_ in the drafts, incidentally): 'Trolls of a new and most malevolent kind were abroad; giants were spoken of, a Big Folk only far bigger and stronger than Men the [?ordinary] Big Folk, and no stupider, indeed often full of cunning and wizardry.'

Revised to: 'Trolls and giants were abroad, of a new and more malevolent kind, no longer dull-witted but full of cunning and wizardry.'

Ultimate (published text): 'Trolls were abroad, no longer dull-witted, but cunning and armed with dreadful weapons'

Hmmm.


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## camlost (Jan 1, 2011)

Hi -

After a recent reading of the Hobbit I came to view the Stone Giants as earth spirits that were given form when Eru began to awake his Children. Unlike the Ents and the Eagles (spirits of the forest and wind) who were taught speech and given wisdom by Manwe and the Elves these spirits were largely neglected and therefore quite wild. However, as some Ents could be ill-behaved (who were distinguished by the name Huorn) there were probably some more-or-less tame Stone Giants.


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## Prince of Cats (Jan 2, 2011)

Turgon said:


> I actually loved the scene of the giants chucking rocks about as a lad, it really evoked a feeling grandeur for me, this sense that Middle-earth was a grand exciting place. Which I now think was quite apt considering Bilbo's own awaking near the start of the book.


 
I agree completely; I love the Giants element.



Galin said:


> Revised to: 'Trolls and giants were abroad, of a new and more malevolent kind, no longer dull-witted but full of cunning and wizardry.'



Hmm, I wonder what Tolkien was thinking about in regards to "cunning and wizardry." Is the idea that they have been enhanced by magics or that they are discovering them?


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## blur (Feb 16, 2011)

camlost said:


> Hi -
> 
> After a recent reading of the Hobbit I came to view the Stone Giants as earth spirits that were given form when Eru began to awake his Children. Unlike the Ents and the Eagles (spirits of the forest and wind) who were taught speech and given wisdom by Manwe and the Elves these spirits were largely neglected and therefore quite wild. However, as some Ents could be ill-behaved (who were distinguished by the name Huorn) there were probably some more-or-less tame Stone Giants.


 
Some cool thoughts there, man.


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## Zenith (May 18, 2011)

> However, as some Ents could be ill-behaved (who were distinguished by the name Huorn) there were probably some more-or-less tame Stone Giants.


 
I don't think ill-mannered ents were called Huorns. Huorns were distinct from ents. They were tree spirits who could wrap themselves in shadow and travel at great speeds. They also had incredible strength and anger. Huorns does not equal meaner ents. Read the chapter "Treebeard" and "Flotsam and Jetsam" in TTT. 

To respond to the original topic, I think we are reading too much into this, which really isn't a bad thing. I agree with the people who say they were probably just stone trolls and from a hobbits perspective they were "giants". But I do have a few questions. Bilbo had encountered 3 trolls earlier that were clearly outlined as "trolls". Why would Tolkien change the term and not give any clear indicators? 

As a side note, EA seems to have taken this idea and created a Mountain Giant unit in The Battle for Middle-earth II.


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## Turin's Friend (Jun 6, 2011)

Yes I think they were spirits of the mountain. Not evil creatures created by Morgoth but spirits which were created at the same time the mountains were being created by Iluvatar. Especially since Morgoth cannot create on his own but can only mock and corrupt. Their level of intelligence and level of awareness I think would have also been determined by Iluvatar.


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## Prince of Cats (Jun 7, 2011)

Turin's Friend said:


> Yes I think they were spirits of the mountain. Not evil creatures created by Morgoth but *spirits which were created at the same time the mountains were being created by Iluvatar*. Especially since Morgoth cannot create on his own but can only mock and corrupt. Their level of intelligence and level of awareness I think would have also been determined by Iluvatar.


 
_Were_ the mountains created by Illuvatar?

What are these "spirits?" Maia?


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## Turin's Friend (Jun 8, 2011)

Did Iluvatar create the mountains? I think that he did when he created Arda even though it was then changed and shaped by the Valar especially during their struggles with Melkor. I get the sense from the Silmarillion that Iluvatar did make the planet and also was the one who made it round after the destruction of Numenor. It is because of this that I think the one God created the planet as well as shaped it. I am not sure if Stone Giants are Maiar or some other spirit along the lines of Ents and Tom Bombadil both of which are also supposedly as old as the beginings of Arda. Hmmm? very good questions.


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## RangerStryder (Oct 23, 2012)

When I started the thread I didn't realize that PJ will show us his interpretation of the so-called Stone Giants in his upcoming Hobbit movie, and I'm really glad to see them throwing rocks mind you, in the new Hobbit trailer. Now let me pick up my mouth off the floor so I wont trip on it.





.


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## OfRhosgobel (Oct 26, 2012)

Tolkien was first and foremost a linguist. He like to play with words, and have many different names for the same thing. The "Stone Giants" are nothing more than hill trolls. Trolls that live in the mountains. Stone Giants are just one name for them, given to them by Manwe knows who. Like Orcs and Goblins, Orc is the common word given to those creatures that the elves named Goblins.


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## Elthir (Oct 26, 2012)

> ... Like Orcs and Goblins, Orc is the common word given to those creatures that the elves named Goblins.



Orc and goblin does refer to the same thing, but to be pedantic the Elves (Grey type) named these creatures _Yrch_ and other Elvish things, like _Glamhoth_ for example.

The translator named them 'goblins'... sometimes :*D


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## Firawyn (Jan 7, 2013)

After an unreasonably long absense, I am back, and glad to see some activity here. 

In regard to the Stone Giants...holy cow, I about fell out of my seat at the theater when Thorin and Co got attacked by huge stone giants on the mountain. It's been a few years since I read the Hobbit (really should do a reread, now that the movie is out) and I honestly didn't recal where the Stone Giants were mentioned at all. Does anyone have the book handy? Can the passage be posted? 

Honsetly, like several other aspects of the new Hobbit movie, I found that the Stone Giants were a small passage that got turned into a huge deal, simply to make a better action sequence, and/or to extend the length of the movie. PJ seems to be making a pile of new mistakes this time around...rather than cut important characters and scenes, he is turning flat characters into idiotic round ones (Radagast comes to mind!!), and adding characters who were never in the book just to keep a "star" cast members (Galadriel wasn't in the Hobbit, was she?!), and adding scenes that while comical, are totally not needed to move the plot along, and were only added to feed a character's development, who wasn't supposed to be there in the first place (Super rabbits, OMG! :*eek


I reserve judgment until I've seen the rest of the Hobbit, though the Stone Giants are one thing on a list of things that have me a bit on edge.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jan 7, 2013)

Firawyn said:


> After an unreasonably long absense, I am back, and glad to see some activity here.
> 
> In regard to the Stone Giants...holy cow, I about fell out of my seat at the theater when Thorin and Co got attacked by huge stone giants on the mountain. It's been a few years since I read the Hobbit (really should do a reread, now that the movie is out) and I honestly didn't recal where the Stone Giants were mentioned at all. Does anyone have the book handy? Can the passage be posted?
> 
> ...



Here to serve :-D



> When he peeped out in the lightning-flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone-giants were out and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among the trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang.





> They could hear the giants guffawing and shouting all over the mountainsides.





> "If we don't get blown off or drowned, or struck by lightning, we shall be picked up by some giant and kicked sky-high for a football."





> "I must see if I can't find a more or less decent giant to block it up again," said Gandalf



Erestor's Disclaimer: taken from http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5887


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## Prince of Cats (Jan 7, 2013)

FWIW, I thought the stone giants scene was one of the most appealing in the movie. That the party had to be *on* them was unnecessary, but I really liked the animations. I saw the movie for a second time largely for when the one stone giant headbutts the other But the question remains still - where did the giants come from and are they possessed by Ainur? Are they creations of Morgoth or simply creatures of the wild like deer and squirrels?


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## Firawyn (Jan 7, 2013)

Prince of Cats said:


> FWIW, I thought the stone giants scene was one of the most appealing in the movie. That the party had to be *on* them was unnecessary, but I really liked the animations. I saw the movie for a second time largely for when the one stone giant headbutts the other But the question remains still - where did the giants come from and are they possessed by Ainur? Are they creations of Morgoth or simply creatures of the wild like deer and squirrels?




Erestor dearest, thank you.

@ Prince, 

In responce to the grander question at hand, I have to say I'm inclined to beleive that are a part of nature. I find myself thinking of Tom and Goldberry, and how so many aspects of the Old Forest were alive. I think (totally opinion here) that if one considers that the odder living things (Ents and the like) are found in parts of Middle Earth that are less traveled by men, dwarves, elves, and whatnot, that an area like those mountains would be equally likely to be home of naturally existing creatures, such as the Stone Giants. 

Does that make sense?


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## Bucky (Jan 9, 2013)

Turin's Friend said:


> Did Iluvatar create the mountains? I think that he did when he created Arda even though it was then changed and shaped by the Valar especially during their struggles with Melkor. I get the sense from the Silmarillion that Iluvatar did make the planet and also was the one who made it round after the destruction of Numenor. It is because of this that I think the one God created the planet as well as shaped it. I am not sure if Stone Giants are Maiar or some other spirit along the lines of Ents and Tom Bombadil both of which are also supposedly as old as the beginings of Arda. Hmmm? very good questions.



*Melkor 'reared' the Misty Mountains to 'hinder' Orome.

Says so in the Silm.

I don't have the books with me as I'm at Disney, but check out the Silm & you'll see the Valar did the creating.*


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## RangerStryder (Feb 18, 2013)

I just want to push this topic for further discussion.


Let's forget the so-called Tolkien canon and just ride with PJ's interpretation of Tolkien's novel. We saw in the Hobbit movie that Gandalf is helping a company of Dwarves in getting back Erebor from Smaug. We also saw him while having a secret discussion with Galadriel that he is most concerned that Sauron might use Smaug vs the White Council and the people of Middle-earth.

My question is this, why not be concerned of Sauron using the Stone Giants (I counted 3) vs the people of Middle-earth? The (3 or more?) Stone Giants are taller and stronger than an army of Mumakils and I think more ferocious than a single dragon.






.


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## Eledhwen (Feb 19, 2013)

RangerStryder said:


> My question is this, why not be concerned of Sauron using the Stone Giants (I counted 3) vs the people of Middle-earth? The (3 or more?) Stone Giants are taller and stronger than an army of Mumakils and I think more ferocious than a single dragon.


As this is purely speculation - Tolkien does not mention the stone giants again, so far as I remember - I'm happy to play along.

Gandalf does not seem troubled with the possibility that Sauron might enroll the stone giants. Plausible reasons for this could be: (1) The giants are close to being mindless and therefore untameable; (2) The giants have minds that Sauron can't control; (3) They are just as likely to turn on their (Sauron's) allies as on their enemies.

Though I think the main reason is that they are characters from a children's book that became the prequel to an epic fantasy that had no further room for them in the story.


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## Valandil (Feb 20, 2013)

Stone Giants would be of little use to Sauron. Famously 'stay-at-homes' - worse than Hobbits! And they can turn on their allies, or even one another at a moment's notice. No... not much use for that kind of thing.


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