# Why doesn't Gollum age?



## Aranaug (Sep 14, 2003)

I was watching FotR and then TTT with my sister, who has not read the books, and she asked me why Gollum didn't become old and fragile like Bilbo does after he gives up the ring. I didn't remeber anything from the books to give her an explanation so I just shrugged my shoulders. And now I'm reading the Scarlet Letter, for school, so I don't have time to go about reading all the chapters with Gollum or with talk about Gollum. Any one know? Thanks.


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## BlackCaptain (Sep 14, 2003)

The Ring postpones old age. If Bilbo were to have kept the Ring forever he wouldn't have died. Gollum had kept it for long enough that he had grown so old with age he actualy changed in appearance... something like that. I'm sure someone else can give you a better description


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## baragund (Sep 14, 2003)

Gollum kept the Ring long enough to be consumed by it, so it's effects were pretty much permanent.

Bilbo was not consumed by the Ring. He had it for a much shorter time plus he was a fundamentally "good" person who was able to resist the Ring's power of temptation much better than the "evil" Gollum. (Oh man, I hope YayGollum doesn't come across this post. I won't hear the end of it! )

I think this is why the Ring's effects pretty much wore off in the case of Bilbo as opposed to being permanent in the case of Gollum.


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## YayGollum (Sep 15, 2003)

Argh! No, I'll probably forget who you are later, baragund person, but oh well. Anyways, why would you think that poor Smeagol is more of one thing than another? Everyone is good and evil. The evil thief Bilbo Baggins and poor Smeagol had very different experiences with the One Ring. That's not a good reason to compare them and point out that poor Smeagol is especially evil. Very sad. Poor Smeagol looked like an achingly old and sad hobbit just before the evil sam was evil to him. I wouldn't be surprised if that reminded anyone of the evil thief Bilbo Baggins. If people weren't so evil to him, and the poor guy's experiences weren't so tough, he wouldn't look like that. Hmph.


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## Khôr’nagan (Sep 15, 2003)

Well, YayGollum, I hate to break it to you, but Gollum (excluding his Smeagol aspect) was totally and utterly evil. Bilbo was not evil in the slightest, only slightly corrupted by the Ring. Gollum was completely corrupted, though his original self was still present in his mind. Bilbo was cool, and was no thief. But, Alas! we could go on with this for all eternity, and I will not have it so. Therefore, respond as you will, but I will not continue in a debate over poor misunderstood Smeagol.

Oh, and baragund... I do believe you jinxed yourself


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## Tar-Elenion (Sep 16, 2003)

Bilbo did not become 'old and fragile' until after the Ring was destroyed.


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## Khôr’nagan (Sep 16, 2003)

Not quite. When meeting Frodo in Rivendell, Bilbo was already 17 years older, and it really, really showed. His hair was stark white (it had been grey before), his skin was much more wrinkled, his complexion pailer, his voice a little more cracked, and he was dosing off constantly. And that was when, as I have said, 17 years had passed, and Frodo and Company had just arrived at Rivendell (for the first time). And, all this was before the Council of Elrond, before the Ring had even been sent to Orodruin, let alone destroyed there. You must have been thinking mistakenly. Hapens to me all the time  (like saying a line was 2-Dimensional while on a science forum... A line is 1-D).


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## Aglarthalion (Sep 16, 2003)

Gollum's possession of the Ring was what caused him to age far more slowly than he would have otherwise. I'm not sure if the Ring would have _completely_ saved Gollum from eventual death of age, but the Ring certainly made that time become lot longer for Gollum than it would have been.


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## Mithlond (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Khôr?nagan _
> *Not quite. When meeting Frodo in Rivendell, Bilbo was already 17 years older, and it really, really showed. His hair was stark white (it had been grey before), his skin was much more wrinkled, his complexion pailer, his voice a little more cracked, and he was dosing off constantly. And that was when, as I have said, 17 years had passed, and Frodo and Company had just arrived at Rivendell (for the first time). And, all this was before the Council of Elrond, before the Ring had even been sent to Orodruin, let alone destroyed there. You must have been thinking mistakenly. Hapens to me all the time  (like saying a line was 2-Dimensional while on a science forum... A line is 1-D). *


You are right in that Bilbo did show signs of age during the seventeen years, but the change in his appearance within the *one* year from Rivendell to the destruction of the ring was far more drastic (and in one seventeenth of the time too!)..Well that was the impression i got while reading anyway..


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## Starflower (Sep 16, 2003)

When Bilbo actually owned the RIng, he didn't show signs of aging, the Ring as if it were stopped him like he was when the Ring came to him, so when Frodo met him 17 years later, Bilbo was looking like he should look being over a hundred years old hobbit. So after he gave up the Ring, nature as if it were caught up with him. But the difference between him and Gollum, as Gandalf explains in LoTR, is that Gollum owned the Ring for centuries, and used it constantly, whereas Bilbo had it for just about 50 years and used it hardly ever. When you look at Frodo at the end of the journey at Mount Doom, he was gaunt and frail, the Ring had really consumed him, cause he had carried it constantly on him





Starflower


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## Khôr’nagan (Sep 16, 2003)

Bilbo had also carried it constantly on him. The difference between him and Frodo was that
1. Frodo had it while undergoing extreme stresses, injuries, and other hardships.
2. Frodo had it while Sauron new he had it, and Frodo was being watched constantly by Sauron.
3. Frodo had it while venturing directly into Mordor and closer to Sauron and Orodruin, where the effects of the Ring are countless time greater.
4. Frodo no only had the Ring, he was (at times) crawling forward to his goal. He went constantly with little or no food for times.
5. Frodo was stabbed by a Morgul Blade, whose effects were ever-lasting and a made Frodo much more suceptable to the Powers of Sauron, the Nazgul, and the Ring.

And, while Frodo's experience was such, Bilbo's experience was quite the opposite. He was living comfortably, unknown, fat, and a peaceful and quite life in the Shire. Such a living is the exact opposite of the living which would enhance the effects of the Ring on the Bearer. In the same amount of time Bearing the Ring, even Gollum was not effected so much. Frodo would certainly have faded should the same rate continue for a good few years.


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## Tar-Elenion (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Khôr’nagan _
> Not quite. When meeting Frodo in Rivendell, Bilbo was already 17 years older, and it really, really showed. His hair was stark white (it had been grey before), his skin was much more wrinkled, his complexion pailer, his voice a little more cracked, and he was dosing off constantly. And that was when, as I have said, 17 years had passed, and Frodo and Company had just arrived at Rivendell (for the first time). And, all this was before the Council of Elrond, before the Ring had even been sent to Orodruin, let alone destroyed there. You must have been thinking mistakenly. Hapens to me all the time  (like saying a line was 2-Dimensional while on a science forum... A line is 1-D).


Ah, I see, you all were discussing the *movie* and I was referring to the *book*

While Bilbo is referred to as 'old' a couple of times, he does not constantly doze off, nor is he described as old and wrinkled nor is his said to be hair white.


"Wake up, indeed!' he said, cocking an eye at Elrond. There was a bright twinkle in it and no sign of sleepiness that Frodo could see. `Wake up! I was not asleep. Master Elrond. If you want to know, you have all come out from your feast too soon, and you have disturbed me-in the middle of making up a song...."
Bilbo in 'Many Meetings'.

There is this passage:
"Slowly he drew it out. Bilbo put out his hand. But Frodo quickly drew back the Ring. To his distress and amazement he found that he was no longer looking at Bilbo; a shadow seemed to have fallen between them, and through it he found himself eyeing a little wrinkled creature with a hungry face and bony groping hands. He felt a desire to strike him."
FotR, Many Meetings

This was an effect of the Ring distorting Frodo's vision, not Bilbo's actual appearance.


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## YayGollum (Sep 16, 2003)

I would love to respond and go back and forth with the guy in charge of the evil guild, but oh well. Looks like that one could care less about discussion. Doesn't look like there's much for me to add about age type things, anyways.


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## Khôr’nagan (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tar-Elenion _
> *Ah, I see, you all were discussing the movie and I was referring to the book*



Well, I can't say it isn't part of it, but I could swear recalling that Bilbo kept falling asleep... (Though that might have been after...)

Oh well, I guess that you're right. Although it's not a big deal anyway, as I would tend to agree that after the Ring was destroyed he would be more effected, I had mistakenly thought of something else, contradicting that. My mistake.

Oh, and YayGollum... Feel free to add anything you'd like. I very much enjoy discussions and debates.


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