# Feanor: Love him or Loathe him??



## Bilbo Baggins57 (Sep 29, 2002)

*Feanor: Hate him or feel bad for him?*

I know that a lot of the things he did were just rotten but in a way I kind of felt bad 4 him. The reason most of this even started was cuz of Melkor's lies that took advantage of Feanor's already suspicious nature. I know that's still no excuse, but I thought it was sad about his family situation. He didn't have 2 make the choices that he did but I don't think the whole thing was entirely his fault. If Melkor hadn't interfered, I doubt any of it would've happened.


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## Confusticated (Sep 29, 2002)

Feanor 

There is alink to a thread which covers most everything about this subject. You can read about the views of several other members.

I do not hate Feanor. He had his faults and was placed in circumstances that brought out the worst of him. It just so happend that because of the things that Melkor had planned that the worst of Feanor ended up casuing so much damage.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 29, 2002)

Neither.
A great thread on this subject would be exactly the one that Confusticated mentioned.


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## Elenaelin (Sep 30, 2002)

I don't hate Feanor, but I don't like him either- Sure, because of Morgoth he ended up making several (and I mean several) errors in judgement, but then again- if he had stopped to think (or listened to his poor wife) many of these mistakes might(?) not of occured. But then again, if Feanor had stopped to think, we would not have the whole epic of the Silmarillion to read.


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 11, 2002)

I like it,I love it.Look where ithrynluin says.


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## Anamatar IV (Oct 11, 2002)

I loved feanor. How can you NOT love someone who created the 3 greatest jewels of all time? in fact I dont beleive that he pursued Morgoth to get the silmarils but rather for vengeance over his father.


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *I loved feanor. How can you NOT love someone who created the 3 greatest jewels of all time? in fact I dont beleive that he pursued Morgoth to get the silmarils but rather for vengeance over his father. *


Oo I think it's too complicated to say whether he pursued Morgoth because of his father death or because of the stolen silmarils.Both are the reason for Feanor anger.


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## Popqueen62 (Oct 14, 2002)

well, what i've read so far makes me feel very sorry for him, he was kinda miserable


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Popqueen62 _
> *well, what i've read so far makes me feel very sorry for him, he was kinda miserable *


Oo he definitely wasn't miserable!!!


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## Grond (Oct 16, 2002)

You know that I read the first three pages of the thread referenced earlier on this page before I realized that I started that thread!! Woohoo!! Am I good or what???


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *You know that I read the first three pages of the thread referenced earlier on this page before I realized that I started that thread!! Woohoo!! Am I good or what??? *


Hey Grond would you visit the thread "Grond:mace or hammer" and give your opinion what are you,cause I'm really confused.A hammer,a mace,or a Mod.?!Difficult to say.......


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## Melian (Nov 2, 2002)

I love Feanor.Dearly.He's so impious,so mystical,so conceited,so smart...Actually,he seems to be for the people of Middle-Earth what was Prometeus for the Greeks or Toth for the Egyptians--an iconoclastic character,a genius who leads and doesn't follow.Look at every civilization's mythology--if there's some great,creative image,you cannot but find the similes with Feanor!That's him--the Inventor,the One who casts light over narrow-mindedness,the one that's not really loved and appreciated by the Gods...In short,he's the guy that thinks epochs ahead of his time.


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## Ramagna (Nov 2, 2002)

Melian just said what I thought...  

Only one thing to add for me: Like much of the great people, there wasn't much that could keep him from his aims, and this, I think led to the assault on the Teleri...


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## Grond (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Melian _
> ...Look at every civilization's mythology--if there's some great,creative image,you cannot but find the similes with Feanor!That's him--the Inventor,the One who casts light over narrow-mindedness,the one that's not really loved and appreciated by the Gods...*In short,he's the guy that thinks epochs ahead of his time. *


 Yes... and he slaughters anyone (friend and foe alike) who gets in his way. A true role model for all Great Elves of the future to follow.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *Yes... and he slaughters anyone (friend and foe alike) who gets in his way. A true role model for all Great Elves of the future to follow.  *


Well,nobody is perfect in fact.Feanor does some great mistakes,but he is still the greatest.


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## Grond (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *Well,nobody is perfect in fact.Feanor does some great mistakes,but he is still the greatest. *


 How can you equate greatness to a person who murders his innocent friends and then abandons his half-brother to humiliation or death? I just don't get it. He did many great things but was far from great in my book. He ended up a slave to a curse of his own making.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 2, 2002)

He does these awful mistakes because of his anger.His will is so strong that nothing can stop him.In these momentse Feanor is really mad.He will never give up no matter of the price.
I agree with you that Feanor does great mistakes,but having this in mind I think is the greatest.I have in mind all his features and actions when I write these words.


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## Melian (Nov 4, 2002)

Well,that's my personal view,at least.Here we arrive at the trendy issue whether someone's greatness can be an excuse his or her "sins".It all reminds me of Dostoyevski's "Crime and Punishment"...
But it gets rather sophisticated to define what is truly a "sin",what can be forgiven in the name of something immense in its sense,what is grandeur and what is hideousness.So is Napoleon great,bearing in mind the victims on tho one hand and the benefits on the other?Is Feanor great?Should humanity be grateful to such persons?
It all depends on the scale by which you weigh the means and the purpose.To me Feanor's "sins" are inevitable.It's rather inadequate to judge him in this aspect only.What carries weight here is his genius.In facts,all of us can only make puny subjective efforts to measure such an existential problem....it's bigger than a human life,and beyond the brainwaves of the mailers in a forum.


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## Confusticated (Nov 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Melian _
> Well,that's my personal view,at least.Here we arrive at the trendy issue whether someone's greatness can be an excuse his or her "sins".


I don't think it is my place to excuse Feanor. If it were though, I can only imagine that I would do this only if he seen the error of his ways.



> Is Feanor great?Should humanity be grateful to such persons?


He was great, but far from the greatest.



> It all depends on the scale by which you weigh the means and the purpose.


The purpose of Iluvatar? That is beyond Feanor. 
Feanor's puprose? Revenge and to regain the silmarils: In going after Morgoth he did the very things that he was after Morgoth for doing. Murder, deception, and theft. He did this in selfishness, with narrow-minded thinking taking hypocritical actions in all of his emotionally driven foolishness. Feanor with all of his inborn power was unable to use this for the good of all, or even most. I thin Feanor simply didn't know better, but for that reason the little guy was not the greatest.



> To me Feanor's "sins" are inevitable.It's rather inadequate to judge him in this aspect only.


I think most of us do not judge him on that aspect alone.



> What carries weight here is his genius.


It's rather inadequate to judge him in this aspect only. 
I think only few of us do this.


> In facts,all of us can only make puny subjective efforts to measure such an existential problem....it's bigger than a human life,and beyond the brainwaves of the mailers in a forum.


Probably.


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## Melian (Nov 6, 2002)

Aw!I feel like you made a dissection of my reply or something... 

I'm far from the thought that we might reach an agreement on the question of Feanor. . 
However,I do respect highly what you say.You certainly have a point.And yet consider that even gods (and Eru & the Valar make no exception) are imperfect and can also be blamed for their vanity,selfishness and greed.In short,the things you accuse Feanor of being his ill nature,are quite common for the gods as well.And,yeah,they are so gorgeous and divine and it's so unlikely to criticize them...but why not?!


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## Confusticated (Nov 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Melian _
> *Aw!I feel like you made a dissection of my reply or something...
> 
> I'm far from the thought that we might reach an agreement on the question of Feanor. .
> However,I do respect highly what you say.You certainly have a point.And yet consider that even gods (and Eru & the Valar make no exception) are imperfect and can also be blamed for their vanity,selfishness and greed.In short,the things you accuse Feanor of being his ill nature,are quite common for the gods as well.And,yeah,they are so gorgeous and divine and it's so unlikely to criticize them...but why not?! *


Well as for Iluvatar being imperfect, I can not even begin to judge that.
I do not think the Valar are though. Oh, I have critized them. 
Why did Ulmo watch Manwe free Melkor when he knew that Melkor was evil?
Thing is, this probably worked out to fulfil Iluvatar's will in the long run.
Did Ulmo know that though? I don't think so. I think he just wanted to be a good little Vala and do whatever Manwe says. 
On the whole I think it is easier to critisize an elf or man than it is a Vala, because the Valar are so mysterious that we can not know as well what motivates them. You can't fairly critize without knowing the full story. Though even with elves and men we do not know everything.


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## Melian (Nov 6, 2002)

Exactly. That's why I find Feanor far more appealing than many a "good little Valar"


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Melian _
> *Aw!I feel like you made a dissection of my reply or something...
> 
> I'm far from the thought that we might reach an agreement on the question of Feanor. .
> However,I do respect highly what you say.You certainly have a point.And yet consider that even gods (and Eru & the Valar make no exception) are imperfect and can also be blamed for their vanity,selfishness and greed.In short,the things you accuse Feanor of being his ill nature,are quite common for the gods as well.And,yeah,they are so gorgeous and divine and it's so unlikely to criticize them...but why not?! *


I agree Valar weren't perfect and did lots of mistakes,but I don't think Eru is imperefect.
In fact Ilëvatar is the only "thing" that can be said it's perfect.He plans everything,from the creation of Arda,through Melkor's rebellion,to the end of days.


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## Theoden (Nov 11, 2002)

I would have to say that on the large scale, one tends to feel sorry for Feanor. 
But when you re-read the Sil and realize the aweful things he did to so many, I find myself very eager to read the part where he gets killed. But, pitty is a very important thing in LotR and the Hobbit, and it would seem that perhaps, Tolkien wanted the readers of the Sil to feel some sort of Pitty towards Feanor.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Theoden _
> *I would have to say that on the large scale, one tends to feel sorry for Feanor.
> But when you re-read the Sil and realize the aweful things he did to so many, I find myself very eager to read the part where he gets killed. But, pitty is a very important thing in LotR and the Hobbit, and it would seem that perhaps, Tolkien wanted the readers of the Sil to feel some sort of Pitty towards Feanor. *


Tolkien wanted the readers to feel some sort of pitty towards Gollum,I think.But I'm not agree it's the same about Feanor.I would understand those who hate him.But I cannot understand those who feel pity towards him.


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## Melian (Nov 23, 2002)

No,certainly he does not deserve pity.You can call him a kinslayer,you can call him a genius,but I believa all agree that you cannot pity him.That's it-'loathe' or 'love'.
It's very specific about Feanor--he carries so much emotion and involves you in any other way but pity.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Melian _
> *No,certainly he does not deserve pity.You can call him a kinslayer,you can call him a genius,but I believa all agree that you cannot pity him.That's it-'loathe' or 'love'.
> It's very specific about Feanor--he carries so much emotion and involves you in any other way but pity. *


Yeah you are right,my dear Maia .Everyone has at least one reason for loving or loathing Feanor because of his actions,but I cannot remember any action of him to deserve a pity.There isn't such an action.


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## Confusticated (Dec 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *How can you equate greatness to a person who murders his innocent friends and then abandons his half-brother to humiliation or death? I just don't get it. He did many great things but was far from great in my book. He ended up a slave to a curse of his own making. *


To this Gil-galad says:


> He does these awful mistakes because of his anger.His will is so strong that nothing can stop him.In these momentse Feanor is really mad.He will never give up no matter of the price.


One might say the same thing of Melkor... is he then the greatest Vala? Greatest Ainur?
Surely he was the mightiest of them, as Feanor was so mighty among the elves.


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## Isal Celebalda (Dec 29, 2002)

Personally? No. I loved the Noldor until Feanor was introduced into the legends. If I could be an elf, I'd be of the Sindar or of the Vanyar. The atrocities many of them commited because of Feanor and his sons repel me from the race of the Noldor... He ruined his people, in my opinion.


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## Seraph (Dec 30, 2002)

I was glad when that arrogant fool was cut down.


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## Finduilas (Jan 1, 2003)

> One might say the same thing of Melkor... is he then the greatest Vala? Greatest Ainur?



I think that to call someone great he should have some positive features.Therefore Melkor can't be called the greatest,but why not Feanor?
He really was akind of betrayer but a kind of a hero as well.He fought with darkness although he was a bit dark ,too.While Melkor was dark indeed and didn't want to fight darkness. 
But we should accept Feanors features-good and bad-and love and loathe him.We can't feel only one feeling for a person although love is too strong for Feanor in my opinion.Maybe like or at least respect.But I think he deserves to be loathed and liked in the same time.


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