# Which Valar is the most annoying?



## HLGStrider (Sep 6, 2003)

I was reading the Sil's descriptions of the Valar and I got to Tulkas. . .It doesn't say a whole lot about him, not much to go on as far as making a detailed personality sketch, but I just started to feel that he was the type who would get under my skin.

I know he's the most annoying. . .but I know some of you must have your own idea of which Valar would be the most annoying. . .or can at least think up an idea!

There is only room for ten poll options and there are fourteen Valar (not counting Melkor who is no longer named in their number).

I'll list them in the order they appear in the book, leaving out a few of the last ones because of space, and maybe a nice mod can edit the remaining four in for me.

Manwe
Ulmo
Aule
Orome
Mandos
Lorien
Tulkas
Varda
Yavanna 
Nienna
Este
Vaire
Vana
Nessa


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## Confusticated (Sep 6, 2003)

I agree with you about Tulkas. I sort of see him as a big dummy, all muscle no intellect. Probably not a very interesting person to know (assuming one is used to being around Valar), and someone I could not even begin to relate to. For those reasons and just because of the overall impression I get of him, I think he would be the most annoying to me. Tulkas shows qualities I don't like much, and he fails to show qualities that I value in people. But still, this is looking at the Valar as people and not the angelic powers that they are. To know them in truth, I would not be surpised to find that I actually enjoy Tulkas. It's probably nice to hear his laughter.

Some of the Valar have off balance (if that is the right word) personalities. I appreciate them each for their part but I think I've answered what you were looking for. Ulmo is the Vala that I like most, by the way.


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## HLGStrider (Sep 6, 2003)

Yeah. . .Aule seems to have such common sense, however. . .and a good heart. . .and Nienna seems like such a sweet heart, and Yavanna is so motherly. .but Tulkas. ..BLAH!

I hope some mod adds the last four onto there.


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## Lhunithiliel (Sep 6, 2003)

I voted for Nienna.... weeping all the time....Bah!...Annoying!


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## Niniel (Sep 6, 2003)

I think Tulkas could have been interesting if Tolkien had written more about him, but the way it is he is quite annoying.


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## Talierin (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *Aule seems to have such common sense, however. . .*



Yeah right *coughs and grins innocently at Captain Kangaroo*


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## Turin (Sep 6, 2003)

I can't remember, which one was it that stopped them from killing Melko? At the time I read it I thought it was quite annoying.


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## Aulë (Sep 6, 2003)

Oi! Me are smrt! 

Anyway, I've always thought Elbe to be quite annoying......Oh? You mean the Sil characters, don't you? 
Hmmm...
I'd say Manwë.

Call it tall poppy syndrome if you will, but I just find him unbearable.
And it irritated me to no end that he could not understand 'evil', and the way he let Melkor run free.


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## Turin (Sep 6, 2003)

That might be who I'm thinking of, I think it might be a girl though.


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## Celebthôl (Sep 6, 2003)

I'd have to say the one that always cryed....i think Nienna....i thought Tulkas was a great character....he seemed like Beorn to me....only not a bear 

Also, does anyone else see Lórien as a sort of Apollo from the greek tales type character?


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## Beleg (Sep 6, 2003)

Who other then Manwe?


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## HLGStrider (Sep 6, 2003)

Tulkas, obviously, Beleg. 

Could you kill Melkor? I'm sure there must be a way to do it. . .but it would have to be pretty hard.


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## Celebthôl (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *Could you kill Melkor? I'm sure there must be a way to do it. . .but it would have to be pretty hard. *



Maybe you can kill his body, and before his spirit can escape, you exercize it to the nether-worlds


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## HLGStrider (Sep 6, 2003)

But the Valar didn't have bodies, exactly. They took them upon themselves " shape and hue; and becaue they were drawn into the World by love of the Children of Iluvatar, for who they hoped, they took shape after that manner which they had beheld in the Vision of Iluvatar, save only in majesty and splendor. . ."

and

". . .they need it not, save only as we use raiment, and yet we may be naked and suffer no loss of our being."


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## Celebthôl (Sep 6, 2003)

Honestly, i dont think there is a way, only Ilúvatar can, and he doesnt "kill" people, he would just stop the entire existance in everyway. . .


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## HLGStrider (Sep 6, 2003)

Wouldn't stopping someones entire existence in everyway be killing?

 

Neinna was such a sweet crier. Stop picking on poor Neinna!


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## Celebthôl (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *Wouldn't stopping someones entire existence in everyway be killing?
> 
> 
> ...



I guess it could be called that, but if you stop their existance then it means they never existed so therefore how could they be killed?


Yeah she cried a fair bit. . . im not picking on her. . . im being honest with you


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## HLGStrider (Sep 6, 2003)

You mean erase their existence, not just stop it. I thought you meant make it so they didn't even have a soul left.

But that would be the same results. . .I call it killing. . .

But Neinna had good reasons to cry. . .


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## Celebthôl (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *You mean erase their existence, not just stop it. I thought you meant make it so they didn't even have a soul left.
> 
> But that would be the same results. . .I call it killing. . .
> ...



Well only Ilúvatar can do that, so i guess Ilúvatar is the only being that could ever kill Melkor in effect.


Yes i guess she did....but Tulkas cant help being a numpty can he


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## Wonko The Sane (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Aulë _
> *Oi! Me are smrt!
> 
> Anyway, I've always thought Elbe to be quite annoying......Oh? You mean the Sil characters, don't you?
> ...




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
*Rolls all over the floor*


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## Wonko The Sane (Sep 6, 2003)

Nienna's my favourite.  If I were going to change my name on this forum to a character name I'd want to be either Nienna or Elwing I think... Although when I signed up for some gaming site I tried to use first one name and then the other and both were taken, so I ended up being Lanthir Lamath... Silly.


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## YayGollum (Sep 6, 2003)

Manwe, of course. The sickening one who I like to call Eru's pet. The Sil. says all kinds of good things about Aule. I don't have a book with me. oh well. I have no idea why Aule wasn't the big guy in charge.


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## BlackCaptain (Sep 6, 2003)

I'd say Manwe because he set that crazy ban on the Men from coming to Valinor. It's probably a good idea in the end thoug... but oh well


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## Wonko The Sane (Sep 7, 2003)

Hehe.  I still like OUR Aulë's answer...it made me laugh.
Who else on the forum has Valar names we can make fun of?


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## HLGStrider (Sep 7, 2003)

There used to be a Lorien lurking about. 

and of course Aule. . .


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## Wonko The Sane (Sep 7, 2003)

Right... But Lorien is the SB and Aulë will HURT me if I make fun of him!


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## Talierin (Sep 7, 2003)

Yeah, Lorien the untamed SB/Valar


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## Aulë (Sep 7, 2003)

The TTF Valar:

Aulë
Lorien
Elbereth
Kementari


Wooo! Us


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## Wonko The Sane (Sep 7, 2003)

Wow...let's see...I don't want to pick on Kem cos she's too nice...and Aulë will hurt me...and Lorien's the SB...but Elbe's been made fun of already she may or may not be fair game...hmm...do I dare? 

Actually it'd be more fun to make fun of the powers her character formerly had listed in her profile on MERPG, but I won't go THERE again!
I don't want her to think I hate her.


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## HLGStrider (Sep 8, 2003)

A Yavanna recently signed on, but since we already have a Kementari, that would sort of be double dipping. . .wouldn't it?

OH! And a Nienna signed up the other day too. . .but I don't think she's posted yet, so she would be hard to make fun of.


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## Turin (Sep 8, 2003)

I always found the female valar to be annoying because they're always so fair to everyone even Melko who they should have killed when they had the chance. Wait, if they had killed him then Túrin wouldn't kill him in the last battle, there wouldn't be a last battle.


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## Wonko The Sane (Sep 13, 2003)

A Nienna signed up?!?!

That's just ludicrous!!! *mumbles things about copy cats*

There haven't been any Niennas on the board as long as I've known it...but the week I decide to make Nienna my new AIM and MSN names...and change my siggy and avvie...and EVERYTHING to be about her...is OF COURSE the day someone decides THEY want to be her.

*sigh*

*grumbles*

ANYway...I actually DID think Varda was a bit annoying...but also Yavanna and Nessa in some ways...

I mean...well...
Varda: "Hi! I make the stars!" 
Yavanna: "Hi! I make things grow!" 
Nessa: "Hi. Animals love me and I'm so happy I dance all the time!" 

ALL: "Let's have a beauty contest!!! Let's see which of us is most PRIVELEGED and SPECIAL! Let's play the MY husband is better than YOUR husband game!!"

Yeah...yeah....
They bother me in some ways....

Nienna though...she cries...because she feels the pain in the world. I can't fault her for that. She's useful...and strong even in her pain...


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## Roilya (Sep 13, 2003)

I voted for ulmo even though he did save middle earth from melkor. i dont like the way he just hides in the depths of the oceans, it almost like he is ashamed to show himself.


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## Kahmûl (Sep 26, 2003)

I don't know why but Manwe gets right on my nerves.


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## Elbereth (Oct 20, 2003)

*smacks both Aule and Wonko *

Ironically, I have always found the most annoying Vala to be Nienna and Aule ...but I've held that opinion even before you two decided to change your Tolkien identities. *cough*hypocrites*cough*




PS...You know I find it very unfortunate to come into a lighthearted thread that is suppose to be fun and find that I'm being the object of ridicule. You may have meant these comments to be playful jabs...but really they are just tactless insults and I don't appreciate them. Now normally, I would keep this type of reaction to PM...but I think people need to see how these type of comments can lead to unnecessary hurt.


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## Manwe (Nov 12, 2003)

I want to ask why so many people have voted for Manwe!! 
I mean he did give Melkor aa second chance which was kinda stupid but Melkor was his brother and Manwe okay once you get to know him. And another thing Eru liked him and I think that says a lot about a Valars character! Would Eru make someone king if they were annoying!!! Well would he!! You 5 evil people!


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## jimmyboy (Dec 11, 2003)

MOST of the Valar, except for Ulmo and a couple others, are utterly annoying. They don't care much for the Children of Eru, except for the Elves who left Middle-earth to be with them. That's may take on them: that they care little for anything but their own creations.
 

BLECH!!!


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## Wonko The Sane (Dec 11, 2003)

Hmm...well I don't see how I'm a hypocrite...I changed my TTF theme, not my name...


Anyway...I'm reading The Sil for the first time at the moment...and I'm not thrilled with Manwe and Varda...for all their perfection and importance...they just don't get to me like some of the others do...

And of course...pure perfection...or even the appearance of it...never really intrigued me...:-/


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (May 10, 2005)

Hello everyone, I'm the annoying little Hobbit-girl who goes around digging up annoying old threads that were never all that interesting and shoving them in everyone's faces again... tee-hee.

Okay, I actually love all the Valar and their interactions, although they aren't all that fascinating. But I voted for Aule when I really considered, because of a few general quirks and the fact that he didn't seem willing to forgive those Noldor who repented and came back to Valinor after Mandos spoke his doom. That always seemed rather petty and childish to me. I suppose that since the quote I think was something more like "and their old friend Aule the smith smiled on them no more" it could just mean that he didn't smile because he was always reminded of the misdeeds of their kindred, but doesn't seem fair either.

Another possibility once I really thought about it was Yavanna, even though she's actually one of my favorites, because I found it a little annoying the way she reacted to the Dwarves and moped about like a depressed teenager and went to Manwe to demand a new race of creatures like a kid pouting after a new toy... and then had to have it patiently explained to her why the whole world didn't revolve around her and the eagles weren't going to nest in her pretty trees. On the whole though I love her, and I am ever so glad that she insisted on the Ents.

AND WILL YOU STOP BEING SO MEAN TO NIENNA?!?!?!?!?! She was so cool... so sorrowful but so strong, knowing pain beyond enduring but suffering it with quiet dignity and instead of becoming bitter over it wanted to help others in their need all the more.

Oh, and I don't understand how anyone can find Nessa, Este, Vana or Vaire annoying when they're hardly even mentioned, at least in the published Sil. There isn't even enough said about them for anything annoying to happen. Perhaps though _that's_ what some might find annoying about them, but that's rather different to my mind from finding the actual _person_ annoying.


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## Alatar (May 10, 2005)

Manwe said:


> I want to ask why so many people have voted for Manwe!!
> You 5 evil people!


Five*runs away laughing*
Nah nessa, i mean by the end it seems tolkein ran out of cosmic powers there was :Air, Water, Earth, Light, Growth, Forests, Doomsman, Master of dreams, Strength,Healing.
And dancing weaving and youth.


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## Inderjit S (May 10, 2005)

Which Valar *isn't* annoying is how it should be phrased.  

I like Ulmo best, as for who I like least it is a tight competetion between all the other Valar. I will just vote for Manwe for the sake of it.


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## e.Blackstar (May 11, 2005)

I voted nessa but I meant nienna. oops...


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## Maggot (May 11, 2005)

I voted Aule because he created the dwarves without Iluvatar's permission and his servants seem to turn out evil because i'f I'm not much mistaken Saruman and Sauron were both maiars who served Aule.... Maybe he didn't treat them very well....


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## Ingwë (May 11, 2005)

I voted for Manwë though my username in BGTF is Manwe. He seems too deep in his thought. I don't like that he didn't stop the Elves who were going back to the Middle-earth; he could help them against Melkor but he didn't... Too Wise...


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## spirit (May 12, 2005)

My favourite Valar are Aule, And Elentari!  

The image of Elentari is so pretty in my mind, and well, she's "cool"


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## ingolmo (May 17, 2005)

Manwe somehow irritates me, and so does Aule.

I really like Ulmo and Tulkas though.


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## Confusticated (May 17, 2005)

Aule is a little annoying to me too.

"Nevertheless they will have need of wood." Wish Yavanna would have slapped him!

I don't really dislike any of the female Valar, but the only males I like are Ulmo, and Orome. 

Maybe Lorien is okay.


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## Aulë (May 17, 2005)

"Aule is a little annoying to me too."

Yeah...I tend to do that!


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## Confusticated (May 17, 2005)

Haha! At least you grow on people. 

But if you were the real Aule? The mockery of Eru's creations that were your Dwarves would have been done for humour instead of impatience. 

Hehe... then you would have bragged to everybody about them, but the more they desire to see the Dwarves the more you refuse to show them! You refuse it to some people for so long that a few began to doubt the Dwarves existance. Then one day in a jolly good mood, and a long enough time of people pretending to have lost interest in them, you pull the Dwarves out.

You talk your way out of it when God shows up furious. You tell on another Vala for something petty to boot, and that Valar in turn sends you a sarcastic message "Tell on me to God why doncha!!"


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## Aulë (May 17, 2005)

Nóm said:


> Haha! At least you grow on people.
> 
> But if you were the real Aule? The mockery of Eru's creations that were your Dwarves would have been done for humour instead of impatience.
> 
> ...


 
Hehehehe
It's funny cos only me (and possibly Itchy) know what the hell you're talking about!


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## ingolmo (May 18, 2005)

Nóm said:


> Aule is a little annoying to me too.
> 
> "Nevertheless they will have need of wood." Wish Yavanna would have slapped him!



No, Yavanna should have planted trees that when any dwarf tries to harm them, they start attacking, somewhat like The Whomping Willow in Harry Potter.

I also like Mandos.


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## Aiglos (May 31, 2005)

Manwe

Look, if I was Manwe, and I looked down the table at the person who said it would be a really great idea to send Curunir to middle earth to help out, and the last time you asked, he said that Sauron was a great choice, wouldn't you begin to suspect that someone's judgement was a bit suspect...?

Nope, not good ole trusting King of the Vala....


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## Wraithguard (Jun 21, 2005)

Tulkas and Nessa
Nessa I can handle but Tulkas...

Gotta love me for keeping the old annoying threads alive!


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## HLGStrider (Jun 21, 2005)

This is my annoying thread, actually, and I am quite fond of it. 

It's one of the few ones that doesn't have my cats as a poll option.


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## Wraithguard (Jun 21, 2005)

I used to have a cat till last week. I wont tell you what happened. Actually it was a kitten.


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## Hammersmith (Jun 21, 2005)

Ingwë said:


> ...my username in BGTF is Manwe...


*Waves ecstatically* Hello!



ingolmo said:


> No, Yavanna should have planted trees that when any dwarf tries to harm them, they start attacking, somewhat like The Whomping Willow in Harry Potter.


I think you mean like the sentry trees in Frank Baum's Wizard Of Oz  , which Rowling shamelessly copied.

I was torn between Manwe (the aloof and stubborn guy who could have stopped Melkor at any point in time he wanted) or Aule, who basically did exactly what Melkor did, except he wasn't punished for it.

I voted Manwe.


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## Alatar (Jun 21, 2005)

Actually melkor did not suceed so Aule did worst things than Melkor!!
Well aule repented.


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## Telëlambe (Jun 22, 2005)

Who voted for Mandos!
He is the coolest valar ever!
and i quite like Manwë, he has power!


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Jun 26, 2005)

LOL, I definitely agree, Yavanna should either have slapped the guy half-way back to the void or invented a particularly wide-spread and resilient form of self-protecting Dwarf-proof tree, a la Wizard of Oz or whatever.


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## ingolmo (Jun 27, 2005)

Hammersmith said:


> I was torn between Manwe (the aloof and stubborn guy who could have stopped Melkor at any point in time he wanted) or Aule, who basically did exactly what Melkor did, except he wasn't punished for it. I voted Manwe.



Hey, I did the same thing, and I hate both of those guys too. I sometimes do wonder why people have got it for Tulkas though, I actually like him. 

And I wish JRR Tolkien had kept a few Valar as cats, so that Elgee would have been able to include cats in the poll.  

And Telelambe, this thread is for annoying Valar, not the ones that you like.


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## Telëlambe (Jun 27, 2005)

Yes Sir.

But this is a forum in which you discuss the topic in question and can question the views of others, in order to try to persuade others to your point of view or learn from them.


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## Wonko The Sane (Jan 24, 2006)

I'd like to change my vote to Manwe, who still annoys me to no end. Varda still gets on my nerves but Manwe's annoyances surpass everything.


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## HLGStrider (Mar 22, 2006)

Added an option . . .


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## Amarie Veanne (Jun 18, 2007)

It's great to have a topic about the most annoying Vala, instead of always voting for your favourite 
My vote went for Manwe... I like the others, except Lorien maybe, but Manwe is definitely my number one this time. His character is very poor, the only thing to say about him is, he is good, he is the lord of the Valar.... I'd add: he is too naive.


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## Snaga (Jun 18, 2007)

I'm voting for Orome. All that horn-blowing stupidity. Bah! Anyway, he gets sent to go get the elves to Valinor, and makes a total mess of it. Not surprisingly he gets put out to pasture in Valinor, and is never heard of again. He's total rubbish!


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## Bucky (Dec 22, 2007)

Nienna.....

All she does is cry.

Any chick can handle THAT.


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## redline2200 (Jun 4, 2008)

I can't stand people who just cry and cry and cry without ceasing, so my vote is with Nienna (although Olorin liked to hang out with her, so maybe she wasn't so bad )


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## Burzum (Oct 20, 2008)

Ulmo always interferes with the Middle-Earth affairs, hindering Melkor from destroying the world.

But Manwe is the most annoying... those damn eagles that pop out of nowhere to help the Elves at crucial moments alone make him annoying, as well as the thunderstorm on Numenor.

Tulkas is pretty annoying, too, mainly because he is invincible, thus greatly diminishing the chance of victory over the Valar, if there is any.


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## Haleth (Nov 18, 2008)

I voted Manwe. Dude, why is he in charge? He's too gullible. Maybe he's closest in counsel to Eru, but it looks like his understanding and interpretation of it is lacking.

Actually, the Valar as a whole annoy me (with the only possible exception of Ulmo). They're supposed to be wise and have insight, but half of the time it's like they're trying to hit the bullseye on a dartboard, but their vision is blurry - they can see the board, know that it's there and what it is, but when they throw they miss the mark. Would be funny if the Children of Iluvatar did not suffer so much from it. I like reading mythology and Greek and Norse gods are known to have done far worse; however, it seems the Valar were intended to be perfect angelic beings, but I just can't see that in the Silmarillion.


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## Illuin (Nov 18, 2008)

I don’t really see how anyone would find any of the Valar annoying. There really wasn’t enough written about them to make an honest assessment. It’s obvious Tolkien wanted to show their imperfections, and show they weren’t gods. Look at _Aulë_ and the Dwarves. He behaved just as a confused human would when confronted by Eru (ready to pulverize them with a sledge). Granted; _Ulmo_ was the coolest, and I think Tolkien intentionally made that clear. But they were never meant to be flawless. Regardless of their failures as “social workers“, look at the positives. _Manwë_ gave Middle-Earth the Eagles (Thorondor, Gwaihir); _Aulë_ gave Middle-Earth the Dwarves (Gimli, Thorin, Balin); _Yavanna_ gave Middle-Earth the Ents (Treebeard, Quickbeam). _Varda_ put some nice constellations up there in the heavens for us astronomers to make a career out of. Yeah, as counselors and/or therapists, they sucked…but why people hate these characters that weren’t even developed enough to judge makes little sense to me. Just my sad, humble opinion once again .


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## YayGollum (Nov 18, 2008)

But many reasons have already been given for why people think that they are annoying. Sure, I would agree that, with more written about them, opinions would have more to work with, but it is fairly easy to be annoyed. The spirit of sock puppetry, Manwe, is still the most annoying, to myself. A teacher's pet, a pretty mouthpiece, a pathetic stooge. Aule should have been in charge, since he's supposed to be the most intelligent. It might have given him more of a focus. He seems to be a lot more active, at least. Also, Tulkas is plenty annoying, being idiotic and unbeatable.


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## Illuin (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, I’m still sticking with my opinion. They provided some very good things…directly and indirectly, even though they were sociologically stumped .


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## Thorin (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm going to go with Yavanna for the same reasons as Redline went with Nienna. 

Yavannah's always bawling and whining about not getting any creation of her own and is then given Ents to appease her annoying whiny self.

Quit blubbering, Yavanna!


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Feb 22, 2009)

What Illuin said. I think I said something of the sort in my first post in this thread...I do wonder if I'd still vote for Aulë now...hmm...


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## Voronwen (Apr 1, 2009)

Nóm said:


> I agree with you about Tulkas. I sort of see him as a big dummy, all muscle no intellect. Probably not a very interesting person to know (assuming one is used to being around Valar), and someone I could not even begin to relate to. For those reasons and just because of the overall impression I get of him, I think he would be the most annoying to me. Tulkas shows qualities I don't like much, and he fails to show qualities that I value in people.


 
I have to agree. Though Aulë annoys me as well, probably because i don't care much for dwarves (with apologies to the dwarves who are present... it's nothing personal! ), though i feel a bit sorry for them for having been created by a disobedient Vala instead of by Ilúvatar.


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