# Tolkien's Longest Sentence?



## Eljorahir (Nov 14, 2022)

While reading "The Fall of Gondolin, The Original Tale" recently I was taken aback by the length of this wonderful and beautiful sentence. (Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe this counts as a single sentence.)

_*But Turgon said that he was king of Gondolin and no will should force him against his counsel to emperil the dear labour of long ages gone; but Tuor said, for thus was he bidden by Ulmo who had feared the reluctance of Turgon: ‘Then am I bidden to say that men of the Gondothlim repair swiftly and secretly down the river Sirion to the sea, and there build them boats and go seek back to Valinor: lo! the paths thereto are forgotten and the highways faded from the world, and the seas and mountains are about it, yet still dwell there the Elves on the hill of Kor and the Gods sit in Valinor, though their mirth is minished for sorrow and fear of Melko, and they hide their land and weave about it inaccessible magic that no evil come to its shores.’*

Do you agree this is one long sentence? If so, I challenge you to find another Tolkien sentence that's longer._


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Nov 14, 2022)

Wow. Yes. I do find it very lengthy. I will try, but this will be hard to beat!


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 15, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> While reading "The Fall of Gondolin, The Original Tale" recently I was taken aback by the length of this wonderful and beautiful sentence. (Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe this counts as a single sentence.)


Oh, lots of classics have lengthy sentences (I think it was The Scarlet Letter that had a really long one but I'd need to ask my brother; he was the one who noted it). None are as pretty as Tolkien, though.


Eljorahir said:


> _*though their mirth is minished for sorrow and fear of Melko, and they hide their land and weave about it inaccessible magic that no evil come to its shores.’*_


lol "minished". This is funnier for The Legend of Zelda fans.


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## Eljorahir (Nov 15, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Oh, lots of classics have lengthy sentences (I think it was The Scarlet Letter that had a really long one but I'd need to ask my brother; he was the one who noted it). None are as pretty as Tolkien, though.
> 
> lol "minished". This is funnier for The Legend of Zelda fans.


Since I'm not a Zelda fan I googled it:

The* Minish* resemble anthropomorphic *mice* that, like Hylians, have long, pointed ears. They came from the* Minish* Realm long ago, when monsters threatened mankind, and gave the Hero of Men a Sword of unparalleled power: the Picori Blade.


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 15, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> Since I'm not a Zelda fan I googled it:
> 
> The* Minish* resemble anthropomorphic *mice* that, like Hylians, have long, pointed ears. They came from the* Minish* Realm long ago, when monsters threatened mankind, and gave the Hero of Men a Sword of unparalleled power: the Picori Blade.


YEP. The specific game was called The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap.


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## Olorgando (Nov 15, 2022)

This would have been some of JRRT's earlier writing?

I know that Thomas Mann, German winner of the Nobel Prize for literature in 1929, was notorious for his long sentences even in Germany. What Mark Twain would have thought of *his* writings ... (Twain can obviously only have read "Buddenbrooks", if at all). I read (in the originals, which I still own) two of his seminal novels (also for the Nobel Prize), the 1901 "Buddenbrooks" (which got the leading families of his home city of Lübeck mad at him for a couple of generations at least), and the 1924 "The Magic Mountain" (Der Zauberberg, two volumes). Mann (1875-1955) was almost a generation older than JRRT. Attention spans have certainly dropped since their time.

I still have to finish - actually re-start and then read through with concentration - Adam Smith's 1776 "The Wealth of Nations". Even steeled by my reading of Thomas Mann (admittedly a *long* time ago) and tons of other non-fiction carrying a serious baggage of foot- and endnotes, I broke off reading it quite early - it was the most "Mann-ish" reading I had ever done in the English language. Not the fantasy genre, surely (later writers who claimed "descent" from him went far deeper into this territory - apparently while never noticing.)


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## Eljorahir (Nov 15, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> This would have been some of JRRT's earlier writing?


Others are more qualified than I on this subject, but I think his use of names and terminology indicates it's from earlier work. (And, it is subtitled "The Original Tale".) In this version of the tale JRRT uses the terms gnomes, Melko, Noldo, and he even refers to the citizens of Gondolin as "men" a couple of times.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 6, 2022)

That's a long sentence. Kant wrote a sentence that was over a page long.


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## Bosko Took (Dec 6, 2022)

Tolkien will be a goldmine for nitwits* until the end of time - and that's a pretty long sentence!

Not me of course, or you... or you... or them... or ....


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## Ent (Dec 6, 2022)

Answering your first question, yes it is one long sentence, counting at 144 words.

It is also a valid sentence.

Tolkien's (arguably) correct use of punctuation saves the sentence so it does not grind the mind into submission. This one is a little easier for him to deal with since a good portion of it is a quote. He has incorporated numerous sentences at 80+ words into his work.

He has a predilection for use of colons and semi-colons where periods are often used. Given that the long sentence could (arguably) be said to contain a 'single thought-stream' this is (arguably) acceptable grammatically. (The opposing argument would be for a period following "gone" rather than a colon, when speakers change and we move from statement to response, requiring a period, and for some grammarians, a new paragraph.)

There is 'information' on the web indicating the longest sentence found to be 111 words. The person sharing this 'information' about the longest sentences is trotting them out slowly, saving the 'longest one found' until the last as he plays typical 'net games'. Personally I've concluded it's not worth my following up to see him get to the end as there may also be differences of 'criteria' for what he's calling a word. The one he cites at 96 words is actually 97. But such a difference may be a simple counting error on his part depending on how he's doing his counting. (Always easier to use confirming programs.)

In any event, this is a nice sentence to probe as it's well done. (Except for the unfortunate inclusion of the 'meaningless that' again..!!)


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## Eljorahir (Dec 6, 2022)

Here's a sentence from Beowulf whose style and length perhaps compares with the Tolkien sentence.

_*'Unferth grew quiet, gave up quarreling over Beowulf's old battles, stopped all his boasting once everyone saw proof of that prince's strength, Grendel's huge claw swinging high from Hrothgar's mead-hall roof, the fingers of that loathsome hand ending in nails as hard as bright steel -- so hard, they all said, that not even the sharpest of swords could have cut it through, broken it off the monster's arm and ended its life, as Beowulf had done armed with only his bare hands.'*_


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## Gloranthan (Dec 6, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> Here's a sentence from Beowulf whose style and length perhaps compares with the Tolkien sentence.
> 
> _*'Unferth grew quiet, gave up quarreling over Beowulf's old battles, stopped all his boasting once everyone saw proof of that prince's strength, Grendel's huge claw swinging high from Hrothgar's mead-hall roof, the fingers of that loathsome hand ending in nails as hard as bright steel -- so hard, they all said, that not even the sharpest of swords could have cut it through, broken it off the monster's arm and ended its life, as Beowulf had done armed with only his bare hands.'*_


I listened to this audiobook format in both English and Old English/Norse, and it's quite a bit of a different experience spoken, as well. The human mind tends to follow spoken verbiage differently than written: long, run-on sentences are often perfectly coherent when spoken (whether or not they're grammatically correct on the printed page). I'd say, for continuous conversations, complete, grammatical sentences are not always common.


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