# Mortals (i.e. the ring bearers) in Valinor



## redline2200 (Mar 20, 2008)

Hello all! It has been too long! 
I was once a very active member here and have just recently renewed my interest into the world of Tolkien. It has been a couple of years since I read the books, and naturally I have forgotten some of what I once knew; I cannot seem to remember nor find in the books the answer to this question although I am sure at one time I knew it....

Is it understood that the mortals (the ring-bearers) who were allowed to pass into Valinor died there as mortals or obtained immortality by merely being there?


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## Leveller (Mar 23, 2008)

I think they died there eventually. Because in the Akalbeth, they say that the numenorians wouldn't get immortal even if they conquered Valinor and lived there. It's the elves and ainur there who already are immortal, the land has nothing to do with it.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 23, 2008)

Frodo, Bilbo, and other mortals who were granted passage to the Undying Lands, died there eventually, but not before they were healed.


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## Bucky (Mar 24, 2008)

Yup.

'Frodo Lives' fron the 1960's was a clearly drug induced misnomer.


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## Confusticated (Mar 24, 2008)

And to add to what Leveller has said, even though the Blessed Realm was not the cause of the Elves' being immortal within the World, they did age there more slowly than in Middle-earth.

Howdy Ithryn, All I remember about Frodo's healing was that he was sent there to heal _if it were possible_... or some such. Or am I overlooking another statement were JRRT does write that Frodo was in fact healed?

I don't do this to knit pick but I always thought it was sad knowing Frodo may not have been fully healed. 

I think we had an old discussion around here about the seeming contradiction to this in Late Writings - where mortals are said to burn out faster than normal in Aman.


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## Elthir (Mar 24, 2008)

Nóm said:


> I don't do this to knit pick but I always thought it was sad knowing Frodo may not have been fully healed.
> 
> I think we had an old discussion around here about the seeming contradiction to this in Late Writings - where mortals are said to burn out faster than normal in Aman.


 
I think the Myths Transformed text speaks to mortals ageing at the same rate in Aman, only that they would _seem_ to 'burn out' by comparison to the world around them. In other words a Man might live his whole life in Aman (say the same amount of time he would have lived in Middle-earth, for sake of this example), but his whole life would be less than 1 Valian Year -- and less than 1 VY of change and growth would have occurred (as here 1 VY = 144 SYs).


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## Confusticated (Mar 24, 2008)

It is Myths Transformed, thanks Galin.

I wonder if it would seem faster to the mortal hismelf, or just those who lived forever? I hope not to the mortals.


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## redline2200 (Mar 26, 2008)

It must have been incredibly sad to the Eldar and Ainur to see the ring-bearers come to their land and "burn out" so quickly in their eyes. I imagine their funerals must have been spectacular, due to the obvious rarity of funerals in Valinor.

I have always wanted to here the stories of the reception of the ship that bore Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Bliblo, Frodo etc. to Aman. It must have been an incredible reception for Gandalf who had completed the task assigned to him, for the Eldar who had after so much time in ME finally returned to live with many of their kin of old, and perhaps most of all for the ring-bearers who as mortals stepped foot in the Undying Lands.

I find it sad that in the ages following the second, there is such little mention of the Valar and Aman (understandably so due to the events that closed the 2nd age). If only we knew more of the events of the LOTR heroes after their passing to Aman!!


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## Elthir (Mar 26, 2008)

Well mortal life was all too quick in Middle-earth for the Elves, who would feel loss and grief when Mannish friends passed; and the point of the essay in Myths Transformed, or part of it anyway (the part that I'm raising here at least), was to explain that Mortals would not actually age faster in Aman.

If a Man lives a hundred years or whatever, in Aman, it's still a hundred years as far as elapsed time; if someone gives him a Valinorean puppy however, it will not have aged even a year before the Man's whole life had passed.

For an odd example maybe


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## Confusticated (Mar 28, 2008)

redline2200 said:


> I find it sad that in the ages following the second, there is such little mention of the Valar and Aman (understandably so due to the events that closed the 2nd age). If only we knew more of the events of the LOTR heroes after their passing to Aman!!



But if we were told these things, what or who would have been the imagined source of the information? Maybe we would have to look to the old _Book of Lost Tales_ ideas for that. Where a traveler from much later than the Third Age reached Aman. Too bad _The Notion Club Papers_ weren't put in order and context for publication while JRRT was alive. (Sometimes I wonder how seriously he took that.)

I like to think that both Bilbo and Frodo spent their remaining time in a Hall of Fire or Alalminore type of place. Maybe even old Bilbo found the gumption to travel some around the island.


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## Elthir (Mar 28, 2008)

The idea of Elfwine the English Mariner (sailing to Tol Eressea somehow) survived as late as (around) 1958 at least, though maybe not later.

Charles Noad suggested that Elfwine _could_ (in theory anyway) have been retained as part of the transmission of certain legends, along with the Hobbit-based idea introduced by _The Lord of the Rings_ of course (Bilbo's translations, Findegil and etc.). Noad's idea seemed further based upon something suggested by The Notion Club Papers (source: Tolkien's Legendarium) with respect to a lengendary past being 'also true', along with a historical past.

Anyway, here's a question I have been looking into myself: what of Cortirion?


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