# A few questions regarding Dwarves



## Legolas3363 (Feb 22, 2003)

First of all i just started reading the silmarilion and i have a few questions. Correct me if im wrong the dwarves were actually created before the elves, correct? Who were the first seven dwarves created and what mountains did the reside in?
Thanks


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## YayGollum (Feb 22, 2003)

Yes, they were around before elves. Makes no sense that they get to be called first born. oh well. I don't know about that other stuff. Too technical. Whoops!


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## GuardianRanger (Feb 22, 2003)

If I've read it right, I think the Dwarves were created first (by Aule), but Iluvatar "awakened" the Elves first.

In the Silmarillion, chapter 2 "Of Aule and Yavanna" is says:



> But I will not suffer this: that these should come before the Firstborn of my design, nor that thy impatience should be rewarded. They shall sleep now in the darkness under stone, and shall not come forth until the Firstborn have awakened upon Earth and until that time thou and they shall wait, though long it seem.


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## YayGollum (Feb 22, 2003)

Got it. The Dwarves were definitely made before the elves were around. The Dwarves were definitely awake before the elves were. I guess being the first born just means that Eru gets to decide when you wake up.


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## Legolas3363 (Feb 22, 2003)

thanks gollom and guardian but can anyone tell me who the first seven were and where they lived?


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## olorin the maia (Feb 23, 2003)

the only name I'm aware of is Durin "the Deathless". Thorin Oakenshield was his heir. The other six remain nameless, at least in the Silmarillion.


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## Turin (Feb 28, 2003)

Why was Durin called "the deathless"?


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Feb 28, 2003)

He lived a VERY long time from what I can remember. It's in the Appendicies under Durin's Folk. Check it out.


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## Mirabella (Feb 28, 2003)

Also, every so often, a Dwarf would be born so like Durin that it was believed that he was Durin reincarnated.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Mar 1, 2003)

Something about their religion too. Tolkien said it was 'wierd' and mysterious himself. But just read the appendicies, its sooo much easier than us tellign you.


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## Turin (Mar 4, 2003)

I read up to Durin's folk I think. Oh well I'll read it again.


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## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

*The other 6*

Is anything ever mentioned of the other 6 and could any of them still be alive?


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## Legolas3363 (Mar 14, 2003)

I just cheched to see what it said on the encyclepedia(sp?) of arda and it says that all of the others were un-named except durin


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 14, 2003)

The Dwarves were created before the Elves but Iluvatar set them to sleep because he would not let them be awake before his first born. 

See the quote above.

So Aule set them to sleep underneath various mountains. In The Peoples of Middle-earth HOME vol. 12 the is alittle bit of writes by Tolkien about the other six fathers of the Dwarfs.


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## krash8765 (Mar 15, 2003)

their were 7 fathers of dwarves, and 3 were in the west of middle-earth, and i think they were the firebeards broadbeams and durins folk. The other 4 clans lived to the east of mordor and nothing is ever said about them.


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## Beor (Mar 23, 2003)

As a small note, the Dwarves were awake first as they were conscious enough to react independently when they were about to be destroyed by their creator. 

By doing this they were permitted to exist (though put on hold), being truly independent beings with free will. My interpretation is that they were created underground and thus had not walked on Middle Earth, seen stars or any other living thing.


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 24, 2003)

Iluvatar gave life to the Dwarves after Aule's humiliation, and his offer to destroy his creations. Iluvatar knew that Aule created them with good intention, but still he would not let them be awake before the Elves arrived, so Aule set them to sleep under mountains.
Longbeards (Durin) under Mount Gundabad
Firebeards and Broadbeams under Ered Luin (Belegost and Nogrod)
Ironfists, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots were in the east, as far or greater then the distance between the Ered Luin and Mount Gundabad.
The Dwarves awoke sometime during the Great March of the Elves into the West. So Dwarves awoke inbetween Elves and Men, but they are not considered Children of Iluvatar.


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## Maerbenn (Mar 24, 2003)

I know this is the _Silmarillion_ forum, but I can't resist to post this. 

From HoMe XII, 'Last Writings' (*1972*):


> Durin I, eldest of the Fathers, 'awoke' far back in the First Age [of the Children of Ilúvatar] (it is supposed, soon after the awakening of Men)
> ...
> But Eru did not give them the immortality of the Elves, but lives longer than Men. 'They shall be the third children and more like Men, the second.'


 From HoMe XI, 'Quendi and Eldar':


> The Dwarves were in a special position. They claimed to have known Beleriand before even the Eldar first came there; and there do appear to have been small groups dwelling furtively in the highlands west of Sirion from a very early date: they attacked and waylaid the Elves by stealth, and the Elves did not at first recognize them as Incarnates, but thought them to be some kind of cunning animal, and hunted them. By their own account they were fugitives, driven into the wilderness by their own kin further east, and later they were called the _Noegyth Nibin_ or Petty-dwarves, for they had become smaller than the norm of their kind, and filled with hate for all other creatures.


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