# Did the Avari teach the first Men?



## Helcaraxë (Feb 19, 2004)

> And Men became the companions and disciples in their childhood of these ancient folk, wanderers of the Elven-race *who never set out upon the Paths to Valinor*...



As far as I know, the only Elves who didn't even set out to Valinor were the Avari. The Sindar, the Nandor, et cetera, set out but didn't complete the journey. So is it possible that the Avari were the ones who befriended the first men?


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## Gothmog (Feb 19, 2004)

I would say that it is virtualy certain that the first Elves encountered by Men in thier wanderings were indeed the "Avari". However, the "First" Men were to begin with, Guided by Eru and then Misled by Melkor and/or Sauron. I seriously doubt that any of the "First Generation of Men" met Elves. So I would say that the "Avari" did not teach the *First Men*, but that they were the first teachers of those Men that started the migrations from the land of the Awakening of Men.


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## Khôr’nagan (Feb 20, 2004)

I agree. When Men first awoke, Melkor came and began working evil among them, and it wasn't until some generations later that Men first encountered Elves, though how many generations I am unsure.

But it is indeed near certain that the Avari were the first Elves that the Men met, though it is also said that Men learned from the Dwarves as well as Elves, and much of the original common speech consisted of much Dwarven and Elvish influence. But it is unknown to me if they met Elves before Dwarves or not; I only know that them met both at some point before they past over the mountains into the West of Middle-Earth and the lands of Beleriand.


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## Confusticated (Feb 23, 2004)

Also remember that the meeting of Finrod with the people of Beor was the First between Eldar and Men.

But in Appendix A to Quendi and Eldar in HoME 11 it is outright stated that:


> The first Elves that Men met in the world were Avari...



Some Avari were friendly with the Men but many were hostile and avoided them, at least according to the tales of Men.

Even the Nandor, late to come into Beleriand, had not seen Men but they had heard of a strange people and told the Sindar of this. But it should be noted that according to _The Silmarilion_ the Nandor had reached Beleriand before the rising of the Sun and Awakening of Men and so they really couldn't have heard about Men in the context of that book, could they? Quendi and Eldar (and appendices) so far as I recall, does not ever specificly use the idea of Men Awakening with the Sun and after the exile of the Noldor, but it is full of interesting history, and has tidbits found nowhere else. Including the Tale of the Awakening of the First Elves! 

One Tale that I really like is that of the Awakening of Men found in _The Book of Lost Tales_, a very early writing and some would say obsolete, but a great read all the same. In the Tale is an elf (one who originally stayed in Middle-earth) that meets Men... I wont spoil it, but he teaches them to speak!  That elvish influence on the languages of Men had been present from those earliest tales.


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