# What would happen if sauron's forces won the battle of the pelennor fields?



## krash8765 (Oct 24, 2002)

What would happen if sauron's forces won the battle of the pelennor fields? And if they conquered Minas Tirith? Even though they didnt win against Lorien and Thranduil's kingdom this was definately the turning point in the War of the Ring. If minas tirith fell then Gondor would ultimately fall too and then who else would fight the war? Rohan would last for a while but they would be heavily outnumbered and eventually conquered. Then sauron's forces would flood through the gap of Rohan and they would capture everything west of the misty mountains. Sorry for the what if questions you probably get them alot but I like to speculate these type of things. All comments welcome.


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## Confusticated (Oct 24, 2002)

I think the Ring would have been destroyed while they were taking Minis Tirith and the rest of Gondor. Aragorn, Gandalf, Elrond's sons, and all of them wise people decided to draw Sauron's attention away from Mordor my marching to Mordor for a challenge. If Sauron's armies were not defeated, but still back taking Minas Tirith, that probably would have been enough to keep Sauron from spying the ring. So I think that The One Ring would be destroyed, perhaps Frodo and Sam would not survive though. I guess there is also a chance that the Eagles would have rescued them anyhow. Eventually regions that still stood would realize that Sauron had been defeated, this would give them hope and his Sauron's armies fear. Eventually Sauron's armies would be overcome and they would end up fleeing into the mountains or away east. The world of men would be in trouble because they would scattered most throughout the north and you'd have guys like Butterbur thinking they know what's going on in the world. The elves would leave and men would have to find a way to unite and take care of themselves.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Oct 24, 2002)

That would all depend upon who SURVIVED the battle (on our side, of course!) I would imagine certainly that Gandalf would "survive" since he was at this point virtually invincible and with Shadowfax could doubtless have made good his escape. Not too many others would have survived, however. Aragorn barely saves Faramir after the battle and even if he somehow managed to survive, the opportunity would have been lost whether he escaped or had been taken. So, we can say of a certainty that Faramir would have died as would Eowyn and Merry (if the Captain of the Nine had died as it is written) along any others that were under the dark spell of the Nazgul. 

However, all of this would depend upon WHEN the battle ended. Aragorn was using the palantir to keep abreast of events after he defeated the Corsair fleet in Belfalas. If the battle were already lost, he would not have sailed to the Pelannor and therefore might have "lived to fight another day". He might have made his stand either at sea in the captured fleet or in the coastal areas. 

Nevertheless, this defeat would not have been a death-blow for the Quest since victory for the Dark Lord even more than defeat would have kept his Eye straining west and given the Ring Bearer his chance at Mt. Doom. Sauron knew that the heir of Elendil lived (he learned that when Aragorn "took back" the Saruman's palantir at Helm's Deep) and would not rest until he was slain or taken - ESPECIALLY as he probably thought where Isildur's heir was, there, too, was the Ring! So painful as a defeat would have been, it did not mean the end of the Quest.


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## host of eldar (Dec 14, 2010)

I think it would be too hard to defeat the enemy but not impossible. defeated army of gondor should be pulled back to helms deep.and other forces(lorien,rivendell,edoras..) must be gathered there. because only helms deep have enough resistance. aragorn should have been aware of the condition. so he would use the army of dead at helms deep. this is the break point: using the army of dead..


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## childoferu (Dec 14, 2010)

Mrs. Maggot sums it up pretty well, If Sauron had won the field that day, many significant characters would have been lost(most likely), and I don't how Tolkien would have written a good ending out of that one


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## Paladin (Dec 26, 2010)

Since you mentioned Battle of the Pelennor Fields I take with Sauron's victory there much of the strength of the West would have been lost. I take the losses would be:
1. Theoden, Eomer, Marshalls of Rohan and most (if not all) of the rest of the 6,000 Rohirrim.
2. Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth and his Knights.
3. Faramir and the Guard of the Citadel.
4. Rest of the remaining inhabitants and defenders of Minas Tirith.
Additionally Gandalf would have been killed as well if he could not flee. It is likely he would have chosen to make a last stand, perhaps against the Nazgul, rather than flee. Plus if Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Rangers and the rest of Gondrians from the South did still arrive they could not have been able to overcome the With-Kings Army.

Aftermath of the Fall of Minas Tirith:
- In Rohan few riders and leaders remained to defend it. In the face of an impending invasion from Mordor and her allies the Rohirrim would have to make a last stand at the strongholds of Edoras, Dunharrow, Isengard and Hornburg. Of them the latter two were heavily damaged. Fangorn Forest would not stand much of a chance either.
- In Gondor supposing Aragorn and Co. survived they would retreat to Pelargir. Since the Corsairs were defeated Sauron would have to assign newer armies to the conquest of Gondor, that would take some time. Therefore it would only be a matter of time before the weakened, manpower lacking cities/towns of Pelargir, Dol Amroth, Edhellond, Calembel, Ethring, Tarnost and Linhir fell and the destruction of Gondor was complete.
- The Siege of Erebor maintained, morale of the defenders plummet while that of the besieging army rise. Possibly Erebor would soon be breached.
- Lorien and Mirkwood Elves continue to fight, maintaining only a defence of their realms. Mirkwood would likely fall earlier since Thrandiul did not have a Ring of Power while Galadriel did.
- Beornings and Woodmen continue to fight and suffer losses until they are eventually overcome.
- When Lorien will fall next to be attacked would be Rivendell.

Now despite the fall of Gondor and Rohan Frodo and Sam would most probably still have managed to destroy the One Ring. Thus Sauron would still be defeated despite acquiring a virtually complete conquest of Middle-Earth. 

In the actual story the Easterlings and Haradhrim continued to fight on even after the end of Sauron and were only subdued when Rohan and Gondor invaded Rhun and Harad. Therefore if Sauron had managed to destroy Gondor and Rohan forever there would have been nothing to stop the Easterlings and Southrons from marching all the way to the extreme West of Middle-Earth; that is the Shire, Blue Mountains and Lindon.


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## Parsifal (Dec 26, 2010)

host of eldar said:


> so he would use the army of dead at helms deep. this is the break point: using the army of dead..


 
In the movies the Army of the Dead is indeed an unstoppable force, which is a rediculous choice for it pretty much removes the need for the sacrifice of Theoden and the Rohirrim.
In the books not so. Tolkien even suggests they had no physical fighting power, and their only weapon was fear, which caused the Corsair reinforcements to abandon their ships and flee South. The Dead then do not board the ships but continue to persue the Corsairs, while Aragorn with his friends, rangers and some allies boards the ships and gives hope to the defenders and fear to the attackers when he unfolds his banner near Pelennor.

Also, the Army was meant to be used on just these Corsairs, a sort of "shoot and forget" weapon. Aragorn could not just keep them with him and spare them to be used at a Second Battle of Helms Deep, or something.



As for the original what if, I'm not so optimistic.
Remember, Sauron did not yet plan to unleash his full offensive upon the West yet, first he wanted to claim the Ring. He in fact decided to attack Gondor earlier then intended, and only because he believed Aragorn had the Ring and would sooner or later use it to supplant him.
If Minas Tirith had fallen and the Ring not found there, Sauron would probably stop right there, content on the destruction of Gondor for now, and kept the rest of his forces in reserve untill he knew more about the current location of the Ring. Remember, the Dol Guldur forces had always been meant just as a diversion, to keep Gondor's allies from sending help.

So, his attacking force on Gondor would be lost (scattered, busy, probably fighting over the spoils of war) either way, only this time Gondor was finally defeated, and he knew the Ring was not there, thus the greatest threat to Sauron had been averted, and time was still on his side.

Meanwhile, there would be no force to draw Mordor empty, and Frodo and Sam would walk to their doom, eventually being captured by some Orc Boss.
This would obviously lead to Civil War in Mordor, but eventually Sauron would reclaim the Ring with the help of his Nazgul, and finally begin his final march to victory over the West.

Anyway, I do not believe Sauron would send all his reserves to finish off the West before he had his Ring back (and probably did not yet have enough troops to defeat EVERYONE anyway). Sauron had always been very patient, taking stabs to weaken his enemies and then laying low to rebuild his strenght again.


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## Paladin (Dec 27, 2010)

Sauron had only assumed that his Ring and Aragorn were in Minas Tirith so he decided to lay siege to the city prematurely before his full force was ready in order to retrieve the Ring ASAP. The Siege of Gondor was precipitated earlier than it would have been because Aragorn used the Palantir of Orthanc to reveal himself to Sauron as the heir of Isildur and showed him Anduril.

Sauron sent the Corsairs to attack southern Gondor while Mordor and the rest of her allies attacked Minas Tirith and Osgiliath to divide the strength of Gondor. Now if Aragorn did not show up in Minas Tirith with the captured Corsair fleet he would certainly not have perished then. 

Surviving Corsairs (or spies or the Nazgul) would have reported to Sauron that the apparent ring-bearer still lived. Sauron realizing that he had just suffered a major setback would be ever more determined to win back his Ring. Thus to him it would be of uttermost importance to conquer entire Gondor if need be to find his Ring. The Witch-King's Army despite securing victory at the Pelennor Fields would be much weakened by losses while the Corsairs were completely defeated at Pelargir. Therefore Sauron would have to send reinforcements if his invasion was to succeed, these reinforcements would have to come from Mordor, thus Sauron would still be draining his forces from Mordor.


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## Parsifal (Feb 5, 2011)

Paladin said:


> Sauron had only assumed that his Ring and Aragorn were in Minas Tirith so he decided to lay siege to the city prematurely before his full force was ready in order to retrieve the Ring ASAP. The Siege of Gondor was precipitated earlier than it would have been because Aragorn used the Palantir of Orthanc to reveal himself to Sauron as the heir of Isildur and showed him Anduril.


 
But Sauron knew Aragorn was not yet in Minas Tirith, didn't he? After all, he saw Gandalf rushing off in fear in broad daylight to reach Minas Tirith first. The goal of his attack was to take away Aragorns base of power, before the new Lord of the Ring could enter it and become a greater force then he was.



Paladin said:


> Sauron sent the Corsairs to attack southern Gondor while Mordor and the rest of her allies attacked Minas Tirith and Osgiliath to divide the strength of Gondor. Now if Aragorn did not show up in Minas Tirith with the captured Corsair fleet he would certainly not have perished then.


 
That is in the scenerio where the Battle is lost before Aragorn gets there. The original post didn't talk about this detail so there also is the scenario where Aragorn does fall on Pelennor Field.

If Aragorn does perish, Sauron learns he was just a diversion. He would ofcours still not believe it possible that someone was destroying it, and would assume that a power like Lorien/Rivendell/Thranduil had it. I do not think he would go rushing at them like a madman, both because he could not win against all of them at that time, and because he wanted to find out exactly who had it first.

Look at what actually happened (well, in the book): Sauron lost the battle of Gondor, which is for him basically the same result as winning it and not finding the Ring, on the short term at least. (His assault on Gondor was a mistake, which is why Gandalf and Aragorn wanted him to do exactly that.) After Pelennor, Sauron doesn't panic and use every last Orc to assault the battered walls of Minas Tirith again, but instead decides to wait for the proud Ring-bearer to assault him.
I don't see why he would act any different if Gondor was destroyed (thus the threat was smaller) and the Ring wasn't found.

Only this time ofcours, Aragorn could not launch his diversion attack. So unless Celeborn would come up with exactly the same idea at the exact same time and draw Sauron out, Frodo would walk into a trap.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 8, 2011)

Do you think Sauron had forgotten about his former master Morgoth? I think once Sauron capture all (if the ring was recovered by him), he would capture and slaughter any and all who came in his way. Those who would be allied to him would join his army and under the rule of his Nazgul there would be no stopping him. Eventually Sauron would get bold and his strength would come to its prime (no where near his strength of old I'd assume but it would be a lot more than in the Trilogy) and he would lead his army to the Undying Lands and somehow this would bring about the Dagor Dagorath, the final battle. In this final battle, all of the servants of Melkor, his creations (dragons, balrogs, orcs, trolls) will be on his side and many others who worshipped him in ages past shall rise and join him...and we could have had another Trilogy lol but in all seriousness, I think Sauron would, after holding power for a long time, would delve into trying to find out the secrets to how Morgoth created his creations and Sauron would create his own creatures and would create an ultimate army to free his master.


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## Zenith (May 21, 2011)

This is the scenario that was unfolded at the Battle of Pelennor Fields: You had a force made up of about 50,000 fighting for Mordor. You had maybe 5 or 6,000 inside the city, with 6,000 Rohirrim. Aragorn was leading up probably around 2,000 from the south. 

Now I agree with the statements saying it all depends on what else happened. There are a lot of different possibilities. For example, if Aragorn died in the battle and Mordor won, and then later Gondor somehow defeated the armies, they would be devastated, weak and vulnerable. So, I will explain what would have happened if Aragorn arrived as in the book, and then the battle turned against them.

Aragorn is overwhelmed by the forces of Gothmog and pushed back to Harlond. He is forced to retreat onto the ships. Imrahil is unable to reach Eomer, who's shield wall is eventually beaten down and all Rohirrim are slain. With no help from the north or south, Imrahil is forced to retreat back into the city with heavy losses. The city is sacked and all inside are slain. 

So that pretty much covers the battle. Now Aragorn would have retreated downriver to Pelargir, and he would have wanted to go to the strongest place available, probably Dol Amroth. After news of the outcome most of the people of Ringlo Vale would have moved toward the city. The Mordor host covering the route from Rohan to Gondor would have been ordered to ravage Rohan, which they would have done. Rohan had 4,000 riders and probably another 2,000 fighters. This would have held out for a while until the Haradrim came with mumakil. Sauron would have unleased a greater host out of the Black Gate to attack Dol Amroth, led by Khamul. Dol Amroth, stripped of her prince and 500 knights would have been demoralized, and would have fallen shortly. Aragorn probably would have escaped or left before the siege. Anyway, the main point is that once Minas Tirith fell, Sauron would have little concern for the rest of the conquest, now that Gondor had essentially fallen. He would have paid more attention to the mithril coat and his own land of Mordor. He would have found Frodo and he would have killed him and taken the Ring. Once regaining the Ring, Sauron would have been more powerful than ever obviously. Aragorn, desperately trying to distract Sauron, would have used the palantir, not knowing Sauron had the Ring. He would have died as Sauron's power was too great and his heart would have given out. Bye bye Strider.


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## BalrogRingDestroyer (Mar 15, 2018)

Paladin said:


> Since you mentioned Battle of the Pelennor Fields I take with Sauron's victory there much of the strength of the West would have been lost. I take the losses would be:
> 1. Theoden, Eomer, Marshalls of Rohan and most (if not all) of the rest of the 6,000 Rohirrim.
> 2. Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth and his Knights.
> 3. Faramir and the Guard of the Citadel.
> ...



I didn't know that Thrandil ever had one of the Three Rings. I thought Eldrond in Rivendale had one, Galadriel at Lorien had another, and Cirdan at the Grey Havens had the third. I think the third elven ring was at the Grey Havens. The elves wouldn't want their way out of Middle Earth to fall to Sauron.


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