# Arwen's death



## Maeglin (Jan 13, 2004)

I understand that after Aragorn died, Arwen was full of grief and wandered the lands of Middle-Earth and eventually came to what was left of Lothlorien, the land of her youth, and died. My question is....wouldn't someone in Gondor have noticed that she was gone? Surely the new king (her own son) would have known that she had left,and would have sent people out after her,for I'm sure he wouldn't want his mother to die alone out in the wilderness. Why didn't he do this?


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## arisen pheonix (Jan 13, 2004)

maybe he did know...i mean would you really want to imprison some one in grief???? thats kinda unfair isnt it


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## Starflower (Jan 13, 2004)

maybe they did know, maybe she told everyone that please do not follow me, I'm sure it says that she said farewell to her children and left. Im sure noone in their right mind would have stopped her, knowing that she would not have wanted to live any more after Aragorn died


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 13, 2004)

Glorfindel1187 said:


> I understand that after Aragorn died, Arwen was full of grief and wandered the lands of Middle-Earth and eventually came to what was left of Lothlorien, the land of her youth, and died. My question is....wouldn't someone in Gondor have noticed that she was gone? Surely the new king (her own son) would have known that she had left,and would have sent people out after her,for I'm sure he wouldn't want his mother to die alone out in the wilderness. Why didn't he do this?



It just didn't happen that way:

From Appendix A of LOTR:

Aragorn: "...now the time of payment draws near [he intended to consciously give up his life]." 

...Then going to the House of the Kings in the Silent Street, Aragorn laid him down on the long bed that had been prepared for him. There he said farewell to Eldarion, and gave into his hands the winged crown of Gondor and the sceptre of Arnor; and then all left him save Arwen. ...

Aragorn: "Behold, we are not bound to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory. Farewell!"

"Estel, Estel!" she cried, and with that even as he took her hand and kissed it, he fell into sleep. ...

...Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched. ...she said farewell to Eldarion and to her daughters... went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lorien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees... she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten..."

And since that's the way Tolkien purposely wrote it, I suppose there's no profit in wondering "why," although it's understandable to have wished it to be different.

Lotho


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## Lantarion (Jan 13, 2004)

I never realized before that Arwen abandons her children! What a terrible thing to do!


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## Sarde (Jan 13, 2004)

Lantarion said:


> I never realized before that Arwen abandons her children! What a terrible thing to do!


Ermmm, all mothers abandon their children eventually by dying... It's not like there was a bunch of toddlers needing her to care for them, is it? I don't really see the terribleness (terribility? ) , she couldn't very well be expected to stay there and be totally unhappy if she really wanted to join Aragorn in the 'afterlife' or whatever it is that M-e folks go to (if that's what it was, I haven't read the Appendices yet)... If I was one of her children, I would want her to make her own choice. I don't think she was some kind of uncaring mother who left her kids behind and didn't give a damn...


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## Starflower (Jan 13, 2004)

well Lanty darling, the 'children' are by now well grown up, remember Aragorn lived for 120 years after they got married.... the children are all grown up and probably knew what to expect when Aragorn died, after all I'm sure they all knew what Arwen gave up to marry him


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## Greenwood (Jan 13, 2004)

I suspect Lantarion's tongue was rather firmly in his cheek on that post.  

In other words: He wasn't serious folks.


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## Starflower (Jan 13, 2004)

he is not often serious is he 

anyway I still think that Arwen dying was an expected event, those close to her knew her history and knew what would most likely happen after Aragorn's death


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 13, 2004)

Lantarion said:


> I never realized before that Arwen abandons her children! What a terrible thing to do!



Aragorn and Arwen lived together for many many years before he died, and their son "was a man full-ripe for kingship." I would think that her daughters were mature women by then. In the story she was overcome with grief. But after many years of marriage.

Many years ago a colleague of mine passed away suddenly, and his wife was so overcome that she died of grief just a few hours later. Their children were all grown — but were they not, I'm not sure that she would have been capable of staying alive for their sakes...(?)

Lotho


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## Sarde (Jan 13, 2004)

She died of grief a few hours later? That sounds pretty far out to me... Can you really die of grief? In a few hours? It just sounds so strange to me...

I can't imagine that I would ever love someone so much that I would think my life not to be worth living anymore after that person died. What good would that be? I surely wouldn't want someone to die for my sake...


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 13, 2004)

Sarde said:


> She died of grief a few hours later? That sounds pretty far out to me... Can you really die of grief? In a few hours? It just sounds so strange to me...
> 
> I can't imagine that I would ever love someone so much that I would think my life not to be worth living anymore after that person died. What good would that be? I surely wouldn't want someone to die for my sake...



All I can say is that it happened, and it was very tragic. These two were married many years, had an extraordinarily happy and long life together, and were "joined at the heart," so to speak. She just couldn't go on without him.

Lotho


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## Niirewen (Jan 13, 2004)

I've wondered about Arwen leaving her children before, but I suppose it just comes down to the fact that she could not live her life happily without Aragorn.


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## Maeglin (Jan 13, 2004)

Even though she still had her children whom she loved, and they her? I always have thought that it would be impossible for someone to give more love to a spouse than their own children, kind of like loving one child more than another I guess. But I suppose that is the way it happened with Arwen.


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## Sarde (Jan 14, 2004)

Does the fact that Arwen leave her children have to mean that she doesn't love them as much as she loves Aragorn? I think not, actually. Her time has come, she knows her children are going to be alright. I am certain that she loves them very much. But does it mean she is a bad mother or whatever if she chooses for herself? Would you want your mom to stay with you if you knew that, in her heart she would want to be somewhere else, somewhere where her happiness lies?

Love sometimes means letting go...


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## Arvedui (Jan 14, 2004)

I guess that we can safely say that the children are old enough by then to look after themselves. And why all the fuss about Arwen leaving her children? Elessar does so too, don't he? I don't see anyone commenting on that.

Talk about Women's Lib...


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 15, 2004)

Arvedui said:


> I guess that we can safely say that the children are old enough by then to look after themselves. And why all the fuss about Arwen leaving her children? Elessar does so too, don't he? I don't see anyone commenting on that.
> 
> Talk about Women's Lib...



BTW, I was reading Tolkien's letters last night (got the book the other day, and haven't been able to tear myself away from it), and in it he mentions that Arwen is herself half-elf, so when she chose to stay with Aragorn, she relinquished her "elven rights" as it were, to go into the West and experience immortality. I would provide the exact quote, but it's still the 5 AM hour, and I just don't have the juice yet to try to find it.

(He also mentioned that Frodo would not become immortal, but had leave to live in the West as long as he liked, to heal, and then to die in peace in his own time, whenever he desired. So I assume it would be the same for Sam and Gimli, who also eventually went there.)

Lotho


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## Arvedui (Jan 15, 2004)

Lotho_Pimple said:


> (He also mentioned that Frodo would not become immortal, but had leave to live in the West as long as he liked, to heal, and then to die in peace in his own time, whenever he desired. So I assume it would be the same for Sam and Gimli, who also eventually went there.)
> 
> Lotho


Yes.
I have read a more thorough explanation on why it was so, but I can't remember where. Possibly in _Morgoth's Ring._ 
But the bottom line is that Tol Eressea does not provide immortality in itself. 

*drifting slowly away from topic*


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## Samwiser (Jan 15, 2004)

I guess it could have ended: "...and every second Sunday the kids and their hubbys came round to sample Arwens famous Sunday roast and they raised their glasses for a toast to the good old king..." but:

I knda liked the ending as it ended, very sad and tragic i know, but closure can be a good thing


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 15, 2004)

Arvedui said:


> Yes.
> I have read a more thorough explanation on why it was so, but I can't remember where. Possibly in _Morgoth's Ring._
> But the bottom line is that Tol Eressea does not provide immortality in itself.
> 
> *drifting slowly away from topic*



Drifting away still more: Is your avatar supposed to be an animated GIF? I have that thing on my computer as one, where the eye is blinking and looking madly in all directions. Yours ain't movin'!  (If I can find it, would you like me to email it to you?)

Lotho


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## HLGStrider (Jan 16, 2004)

I always took it that, with Aragorn's death, a new age had been ushered in. Arwen was part of the old age, the past, and would have felt out of place within the new age. Also, she knew she would die soon. She bids farewell to her daughters it is said. I'm pretty sure she made it clear that she was doing this forever, probably said where she was going. 

However, Gondor wasn't for her anymore. For her was a short time of mourning then reuniting with Aragorn.


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## Arvedui (Jan 16, 2004)

Lotho_Pimple said:


> Drifting away still more: Is your avatar supposed to be an animated GIF? I have that thing on my computer as one, where the eye is blinking and looking madly in all directions. Yours ain't movin'!  (If I can find it, would you like me to email it to you?)
> 
> Lotho


Something happened to the blinking thing when I shrunk it to fit the standards, and I am absolutely a moron when it comes to such things as GIFs and making them work.   
As a mod I am always looking out for things to fix, so it sort of fits inn an odd way..... 
The answer to your last question is yes, please. (check your PM...)


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## Úlairi (Jan 16, 2004)

Actually, another reason might be 'The New Shadow'. Herumor may have come to power 10 or so years before the death of Aragorn. He may have had to deal with him, or at least Eldarion would.


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## Maeglin (Jan 16, 2004)

no, it is said that the threat of Herumor did not rise until the reign of Eldarion, son of Aragorn.


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