# How do Orcs Breed?



## MacAddict (Nov 27, 2002)

*How do Orcs Multiply?*

The Question should be where do Orcs come from. Just something I've been wondering about is How the heck do Orcs multiply? If its really something I don't want to know about just say so and I won't bother thinking about it anymore. Thanks. My brother wants to know this, I don't really care.

~MacAddict


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## krash8765 (Nov 28, 2002)

i believe orcs multiply in the manner of the children of lluvatar so there must be orc woman and orc babies though i have never heard of them.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 28, 2002)

Yes I believe they reproduce sexually like other "species" do. The moment in PJ's FOTR when orcs hatch from mud (or whatever that was) can be a bit misleading and IMHO it is untrue.
There is a referrence to orc children in the Hobbit I think.


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## MacAddict (Nov 28, 2002)

Intersting.. Thank you both very much!

~MacAddict


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## Finrod (Nov 30, 2002)

isn't there a reference in TLOTR about Saruman breeding men with orcs so they wouldn't be afraid of daylight? Therefore orcs must breed in the same manner as men.


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## Khamul (Nov 30, 2002)

The fact that some orcs are men leads us to conclude that they must have multiplied in the same manner. (Orcs were around before men were, so Elves must have also been taken into the will of Melkor.)
I am sure that there is a thread about this same issue somewhere, or was that about the Dwarves?


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## tom bombadil (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> There is a referrence to orc children in the Hobbit I think.



Yes, it is said that Gollum loved to eat orcs children, and he used the One to capture them with those nasty fingers 

I believe they reproduce sexualy, in the way of the elves, men and hobbits. But one thing is certain:
they only had sex in the dark... in the veeery dark... hehehehhe


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## Snaga (Dec 1, 2002)

The fact that orc children do not feature prominently on the battlefield certainly isnt proof that they dont exist. I'd like to assure you all that we orcs do it 'the old-fashioned way' - no wizards required. Moreover, we increase in numbers rapidly, which suggests that we get much more fun out it than those elves who breed so rarely! Just think: Celeborn and Galadriel were stuck in that treehouse for centuries, and nothing happened!


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## Glamdring (Dec 3, 2002)

snaga1, you seem to be using the term "we" a lot when refering to orcs. So that must mean you are an orc. That's awesome. I'm a sword.


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## Éomond (Dec 3, 2002)

I remember in the movie Saruman saying that orc used to be elves turned into those wierd orcs, but, it was the movie


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## Khamul (Dec 3, 2002)

Just ignore PJ and see it as just an action movie. I would go insane if I actually thought of it as a LOTR movie.  

Back on topic:
The pods were absolutely ridiculous, the Elves bit would be partially correct.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Dec 4, 2002)

> Thus it was that when Nahar neighed and Oromë indeed came among them, some of the Quendi hid themselves, and some fled and were lost. But those that had courage, and stayed, perceived swiftly that the Great Rider was no shape out of darkness; for the light of Aman was in his face, and all the noblest of the Elves were drawn towards it.
> But of those unhappy ones who were ensnared by Melkor little is known of a certainty. For who of the living has descended into the pits of Utumno, or has explored the darkness of the counsels of Melkor? Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes. *For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar;* and naught that had life of its own, not the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make after his rebellion in the Ainulindalë before the Beginning: so say the wise. And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathed the Master whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Ilúvatar. From the Silmarillion, Of the Coming of Elves


Hope this helps.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 23, 2002)

Eomond: Orcs actually DID used to be Elves. Read the Sil, Melkor caught Elves and twisted them with the dark arts.


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## faila (Dec 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dáin Ironfoot I _
> *Eomond: Orcs actually DID used to be Elves. Read the Sil, Melkor caught Elves and twisted them with the dark arts. *


 acually isnt their a contradition. One of tolkeins books says that and another says something else. (i cant remember what the other said) I might be wrong completely though.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Dec 25, 2002)

Yes, I believe you are right, faila. Unfortunately, I do not know where the quote is or I would provide it for you. I have just heard of the contradiction in passing. Hopefully someone will come along who knows the quote.


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## faila (Dec 26, 2002)

i remembered what the other source said though i can not think of the book nor direct quote, it said they were made in mockery of elves. If any one could give direct quote or verify what i just said please do so.


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## Great Khan (Jan 1, 2003)

If orcs were twisted elves wouldnt they be immortal?
Or do they lose their immortality in the twisting process?


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## Nenya Evenstar (Jan 1, 2003)

Who says that orcs weren't immortal? In my opinion they would be... but then there may be a quote proving me wrong.  But, from what I know and from what I've read there is nothing there to prove to me that orcs can die of old age. So, I would guess that they have that attribute just like the elves.


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## krash8765 (Jan 8, 2003)

We cant assume that the mention of orc children in the hobbit is really an orc child, it could just be a small child because i remember reading and gollum said something like "sqeezing a little orc." Never all of the books has Tolkien stated that there were orcwoman and orc-children. I know that he has stated that orcs produce in the manner of the children of lluvatar but why is it also said that orcs produce rapidly and faster then other races. And if you believe orcs to be immortal wouldnt it take their children longer to grow up like the elves. Im saying is it possible that Tolkien had different ideas? Maybe he didnt mean to say that they produce in the manner of the children of lluvatar. He has made mistakes before such as the two glorfindels and such. I think it would be better if orcs did not produce in that way because it would be more realistic. Any ideas? and please dont flame me because it is just an idea.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Jan 8, 2003)

I will look for some quotes on this. I have come across some in The Letters during scanning.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Jan 9, 2003)

No quotes. 

Here is my logic: Tolkien seems very clear everywhere that Orcs are simply twisted Elves or Men. Taking this into consideration, I would say that yes, Orcs reproduce exactly like Elves and Men do. Considering the fact that we do not know whether orcs were twisted Elves, Men, or both, we cannot decide whether or not they were immortal. I am not aware of anywhere where it is mentioned that Orcs produce faster than the other races, so I would say that they produce exactly like the other races. Perhaps I have missed something.

I know, my overview is rather disappointing.


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## Gigantor (Apr 5, 2017)

MacAddict said:


> *How do Orcs Multiply?*
> 
> The Question should be where do Orcs come from. Just something I've been wondering about is How the heck do Orcs multiply? If its really something I don't want to know about just say so and I won't bother thinking about it anymore. Thanks. My brother wants to know this, I don't really care.
> 
> ~MacAddict


I don't know if they multiply or if they spawn. See the LOTR FOTR scene "The Caverns of Isengard". It shows the Orcs (or the Uruk-Hai at least) getting spawned out of what looks like mud. IDK it's kinda confusing.


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## Rilien (Apr 19, 2017)

Gigantor said:


> I don't know if they multiply or if they spawn. See the LOTR FOTR scene "The Caverns of Isengard". It shows the Orcs (or the Uruk-Hai at least) getting spawned out of what looks like mud. IDK it's kinda confusing.



Movie =/= books


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## Prince Ashitaka (Feb 2, 2018)

Yes I did read in Silmarillion (can't remember the page number) that orcs were elves once captured and mutinated into orcs. And they multiplied rapidly.

Orcs are not immortal and have shorter life span. There's is a thread already that talks about orc mortality. 

I guess when they breed they breed like dogs and multiple pups


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## Rána (Feb 5, 2018)

Since it's said that Orcs reproduce in the same manner as the Elves, I use that as my base of assumption. I also notice that female Orcs aren't really mentioned. Knowing the Dark Lord's devaluation of life and his desire for armies and subjects... I have to assume that the outlook for female Orcs is pretty bleak. It makes sense that in the eyes of Morgoth and Sauron, they're little more than factories to build armies. It feels pretty likely that their sole function is to get pregnant and produce baby Orcs. Realistically considering the origins of half-breed Orcs and the Uruks produces awful, disturbing imagery as well.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 5, 2018)

Rána said:


> Realistically considering the origins of half-breed Orcs and the Uruks produces awful, disturbing imagery as well.




Indeed....


CL


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## Saxville-Baggins Redeemed (Feb 16, 2018)

Since the origin of orcs are the drow, I would believe that they multiply like we do. But in the movie for LOTR, the Uruk-hai were born by Saruman using genetic magic to summon them from the ground in the heat of their natural habitat. Normal orcs however, do multiply like us.



Nenya Evenstar said:


> Who says that orcs weren't immortal? In my opinion they would be... but then there may be a quote proving me wrong.  But, from what I know and from what I've read there is nothing there to prove to me that orcs can die of old age. So, I would guess that they have that attribute just like the elves.


Orcs I assume too would live forever since they only die from they sht fighting skills and them killing each other, but not once do we see anywhere an orc die of old age.



Prince Ashitaka said:


> Yes I did read in Silmarillion (can't remember the page number) that orcs were elves once captured and mutinated into orcs. And they multiplied rapidly.
> 
> Orcs are not immortal and have shorter life span. There's is a thread already that talks about orc mortality.
> 
> I guess when they breed they breed like dogs and multiple pups


It is possible that the elves were actually drow, who had pledged allegiance to Sauron and willingfully got themselves mutilated in cause for the great one. There is no evidence to show this, but it is just an idea I came up with.


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## Blueduindain (Apr 3, 2018)

Well when a mommy orc, and a daddy orc love each other very very much....



Rána said:


> Since it's said that Orcs reproduce in the same manner as the Elves, I use that as my base of assumption. I also notice that female Orcs aren't really mentioned. Knowing the Dark Lord's devaluation of life and his desire for armies and subjects... I have to assume that the outlook for female Orcs is pretty bleak. It makes sense that in the eyes of Morgoth and Sauron, they're little more than factories to build armies. It feels pretty likely that their sole function is to get pregnant and produce baby Orcs. Realistically considering the origins of half-breed Orcs and the Uruks produces awful, disturbing imagery as well.


Well, maybe they wear so much armor that it's hard to tell, kinda like dwarves, without the beards bit of course!


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## The Old Eregionan (Apr 7, 2018)

At the beginning of Middle Earth there was a Big Bang followed by a particularly nauseous smelling, primordial slime from which there was a Frankenstonian evolutionary series beginning with an especially nasty monkey followed by a Missing Link gone down a triple terribly wrong path. Well the rest is lost somewhere in the Annuals of the Misty Mountains but you'll have to get by Balrog's last cousin to find it.


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