# 3rd Age without Sauron?



## ZehnWaters (Sep 28, 2022)

I won't go into the details but the net effect of one of my stories is Ar-Pharazôn dies before the launch of the Great Armament, Númenor isn't sunk, and the One Ring is destroyed prior to the end of the 2nd Age, Sauron loyalists from Númenor have taken up residence in Umbar. My questions are:


What becomes of the Elves? Without their Rings Rivendell and Lothlórien wouldn't experience the preservation they would have normally. Still, the Woodland Realm lasted just fine throughout the 3rd Age without a ring and Lindon lasted fine after 1000ish.
What becomes of Númenor? Will it just wane as a world power? Umbar is now a competing power, if nothing else. Can Tar-Míriel steer her country relatively back on track if the Kingmen hardliners have left? Who will become her heir? Will she be able to name Elendil her heir? Would THAT be the trigger for the hardliners to leave for Umbar?
Will it simply trigger the 4th age (in effect) one age sooner?


----------



## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2022)

Bump


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 29, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Will it simply trigger the 4th age (in effect) one age sooner?


One entire Age sooner? My, my - that is around 3,000 years!

For Time to be meddled with so greatly, and the Fate of Arda altered so swiftly and suddenly?

I would truly not hope for such!


----------



## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2022)

Éleniel said:


> One entire Age sooner? My, my - that is around 3,000 years!
> 
> For Time to be meddled with so greatly, and the Fate of Arda altered so swiftly and suddenly?
> 
> I would truly not hope for such!


Without the 3 Rings it seems like that would happen. What're your thoughts on what would happen if the Rings of Power were all gone?


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 29, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Without the 3 Rings it seems like that would happen. What're your thoughts on what would happen if the Rings of Power were all gone?


By that, do you mean only the Three Elven Rings, or the entire collection of 20? If the Rings of Power were gone, the One Ring would also - so Lóthlórien and Imladris would have faded much swifter...

_I now see why you have said one Age sooner..._


----------



## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2022)

Éleniel said:


> By that, do you mean only the Three Elven Rings, or the entire collection of 20? If the Rings of Power were gone, the One Ring would also - so Lóthlórien and Imladris would have faded much swifter...
> 
> _I now see why you have said one Age sooner..._


Yes. The net effect of the story is the loss of both the One Ring and Sauron, and the preservation of Númenor.


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 29, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Yes. The net effect of the story is the loss of both the One Ring and Sauron, and the preservation of Númenor.


Númenor's preservation meant the Changing of the World would have never happened - therefore, there would have been no Straight Road and the geology of locations such as Valinóre would have not been altered and sundered from the rest of Arda.

Unless I'm getting the timeline of events mixed up, that is a _massive_ change.


----------



## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2022)

Éleniel said:


> Númenor's preservation meant the Changing of the World would have never happened - therefore, there would have been no Straight Road and the geology of locations such as Valinóre would have not been altered and sundered from the rest of Arda.
> 
> Unless I'm getting the timeline of events mixed up, that is a _massive_ change.


Correct. Though there's something to consider. How much did the changing of the world hasten the ending of the Time of the Elves?


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 29, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> How much did the changing of the world hasten the ending of the Time of the Elves?


I can still feel the changing of the World in this Seventh Age...

Must have hastened it quite swiftly, I suppose...


----------



## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2022)

Éleniel said:


> I can still feel the changing of the World in this Seventh Age...
> 
> Must have hastened it quite swiftly, I suppose...


Also neither Gil-Galad nor Galadriel would have been using the rings at this point (since Sauron still had the One Ring) so they wouldn't have felt a rush of aging as they did at the end of the 3rd Age. Hm.....


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 29, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Also neither Gil-Galad nor Galadriel would have been using the rings at this point (since Sauron still had the One Ring) so they wouldn't have felt a rush of aging as they did at the end of the 3rd Age. Hm.....


I feel that presents a problem...


----------



## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2022)

Éleniel said:


> I feel that presents a problem...


In what way?


----------



## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Sep 29, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> In what way?


In a way I can't quite tell...


----------



## Ugluk (Sep 29, 2022)

No wizards either....


----------



## ZehnWaters (Sep 29, 2022)

Ugluk said:


> No wizards either....


A depressing thought.


----------

