# Christopher Paollini's Eragon. (merged)



## Rhiannon

*"Finding Middle Earth in Montana" - the author of 'Eragon'*

Finding Middle Earth in Montana (You must be registered to enter the NY Times website, but it's free and they don't send you anything)

Has anyone here read _Eregon_? I haven't, though I heard reports that it was an 'enjoyable fantasy, but not really wowing', and I hadn't really planned to because it seemed like the primary appeal was that it was written by a teenager.

But now I think I'm going to have to, because this kid sounds like a slightly more extreme version of myself (I haven't gotten to _Beowulf_ yet, or ER Eddison, but they're on my shelf; and my parents never joined a survivalist cult, either). My primary reaction is _Someone else who read _Jeremy Thatcher, Dragon Hatcher_!_


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## KPurpleRainbow

This is the debut novel by 19 year old Christopher Paolini (who was 15 when he started writing the book), and it seems to be getting quite a buzz. It is said to be outselling all of the Harry Potter books (with the exception of the new book, "Harry Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix) and may well be the next thing in fantasy. 
Has anyone bothered to put down their ~Lord Of The Rings~ books long enough to read this book? And what did you think of it?


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## Rhiannon

I bought it, after reading an article in the NYTimes about the author and thinking 'Hey, he sounds a lot like me!' I started it a little while ago, read about 60 pages, and put it down. I _might_ pick it up again, but any pleasure in reading was spoiled by the fact that I kept thinking "I could do this *so* much better!" I really didn't think much of the _writing_ itself at all. Very stilted and amateurish. The plot and the world (what I saw of them) weren't convincing, but not excessively cliched, though the author borrowed some things very obviously from places like McCaffery's Pern books, and Bruce Coville's _Jeremy Thatcher, Dragon Hatcher_ (apparently the similarities between myself and the author aren't a good thing as far as appreciating his book goes). 

But, I am very very picky about the writing in my books. Other people have said that _Eregon_ is mostly an 'inoffensive fantasy, but nothing new and not amazing'. And I was trying to read it while taking a creative writing class.


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## KPurpleRainbow

So are you upset that most of the mainstream have sort of zeroed in on this book as the next big thing? And what would you recommend as an alternative?

Perhaps this is but a taste of his potential. After all, he was fifteen when he started on the book.


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## Rhiannon

I think that it's only really getting so much publicity because it was written by a teenager, which is depressing because I'm a teenager and I can write better! (I think I can, anyway...I just can't write a novel and do well in school).

I do think the author will improve and be very good, if hubris doesn't set in. Ie, just from the beginning of _Eregon_ I thought it could have used more thorough editing- it could have been shorter without losing any quality (of course, I thought the same thing about the last Harry Potter book). 

My recommendation is, read a chapter in the store or get it from the library before shelling out your cash for a hardback. 

What I'd recommend instead depends on what else you read (aside from Tolkien), but off the top of my head Elizabeth Moon's _The Deed of Paksenarrion_ is an awesome fantasy novel/trilogy (you see it most often as an omnibus, the individual volumes are less common).


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## Talierin

hehe, my favorite bookstore is covered in the book.... I saw one that had a misprint on it, they didn't do the shiny gold text inlay on the cover

I read the inside flap of it, didn't sound too terribly interesting


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## KPurpleRainbow

> _Originally posted by Rhiannon _
> *What I'd recommend instead depends on what else you read (aside from Tolkien), but off the top of my head Elizabeth Moon's The Deed of Paksenarrion is an awesome fantasy novel/trilogy (you see it most often as an omnibus, the individual volumes are less common). *



Hey, thanks for the recommendation! I'm sure I'll find this book at a Barnes & Noble somewhere...


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## Rhiannon

I've found it there, so you should! Mm, now I need to reread it...


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## KPurpleRainbow

Well, it's not Tolkien, but the prologue wasn't really _that_ bad. It was actually somewhat involving. 

But I will check out that Elizabeth Moon book. Sounds pretty good.


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## Rhiannon

Well, it wasn't awful...but still. I couldn't get over the I-could-do-this-better thing.

The Moon is awesome. Very military, actually.


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## KPurpleRainbow

Well, I checked for that book at Walden's, but couldn't find it.

I should have better luck at B & N, hopefully.


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## Rhiannon

I've just started re-reading it- my copy is looking extremely sad. The cover's been torn off twice.


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## KPurpleRainbow

This is a hardcover book, right?


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## Rhiannon

No, a large paperback omnibus- I'm not sure if it's ever been released in hardback. It should be, because I need one!


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## KPurpleRainbow

Oh, cool!

I kind of like the large paperbacks. They have some pretty cool ones. Like alot of fantasy trilogies in one volume. I've seen plenty of R.A. Salvatore books set up like this. You get three, or even four, books in one volume...and usually at a great price. Though all of my Tolkien and Rowling books are hardcover.


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## KPurpleRainbow

Well, I found it and bought it. It's a pretty cool book...and I look forward to a good story.

The funny thing about it is that all of her other books are science fiction. Which is cool when you think about it...

I know writers have to pay the bills like everyone else, but she's not sticking in the genre and getting stale like other fantasy writers.


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## Rhiannon

Hurrah! I'm so glad you got it  *rejoices*

Elizabeth Moon is a great writer- she's written two series(es?) of military science fiction, which are good reads in the 'space opera' genre, and two fantasies other than _Deed_, which are prequels. And then she's written the wonderful _Remnant Population_, which is a stand-alone science fiction that I adore, and her most recent, award-winning novel _The Speed of Dark_, which is about an autistic man. They're all great. 

_The Deed of Paksenarrion_ is till my favorite, though.


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## Tinuvien21

Yes. I read _Eragon_ a few days ago. It's not as good as Tolkien, but it's OK. There's some things in there that are kind of like things in Lord of the Rings, but it did say in the review that it was "Tolkienish". (Whatever that means.)


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## 33Peregrin

I'm reading Eragon right now. I'm not very far, because I read it only before bed. I'm only about a hundred pages in, but I like it a lot. It's one of those books for me that I look forward to picking up again, and can think about during the day. There are a lot of LOTR-ish things in it, but it's not so bad. I like it well enough.


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## Sarah

I have, and it's ok. It's what's expected from a fifteen year old (as he was fifteen when he wrote it.) He should have waited longer to publish it though, as it would have had more adult language to it. For more opionions on Eragon, go here: http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?t=14537


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## Maggot

*Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Hi guys just wondering has anyone else read Eragon? I really like it and the reason it's under related topics is because it is very like The Lord of the rings. Elves have pointy ears and came from over the sea. There's dwarves the Ra'zac are like the nazgul and the main character Eragon is like Frodo he's a peasant (not like Frodo) and thinks he is extremely unimportant in the big wide world (like Frodo). Oh yeah I've only read the first 300 pages so please nobody come blundering in and tell me what happens I just want a general discussion about characters and the plot and how similar you think it is to The Lord of the rings.


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## e.Blackstar

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

I read it last year. It's okay, but because of some of the things that you mentioned, I didn't really like it. Too much copying and so-close-to-such and such a book etc etc. Although Paollini is a talanted author, for sure.


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## Corvis

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

I read Eragon and I didn't enjoy it. It seemed too much like the Lord of the Rings. Though, Paollini did have some good things. I loved the name of his dragon Saphira and it did start out with a bit of a bang, with his father getting murdered.


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## Mike

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Eragon was written by a 15-year old, so I say he did a great job. Young Authors all the way!


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Paolini's Inheritance Trilogy seems to be very promising. I have Eragon, and I really liked it. Here are some points that can show that Paolini's trilogy is very good:
-Paolini was 15 when he wrote the original manuscript of Eragon. Talk about promising young authors.
-He still has many years ahead of him, and can develop Alagaesia (his imaginary land) and turn his books into the saga Tolkien has maade his. 
-Only one of his books has been released so far. (the second part of his series is coming out in August.) So he still has loads of time to improve.

-Ingolmo


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## Corvis

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*



ingolmo said:


> -Only one of his books has been released so far. (the second part of his series is coming out in August.) So he still has loads of time to improve.


 
That's true, so I guess the books will just get better and better. I guess I'll buy his next book, isn't called _Eldest_?


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Gosh Corvis, can you stop replying 'that's true' after all my posts?  
Still, thanks for the agreement and support. 
Anyway, _Eldest_ is coming out on August 23rd.
-Ingolmo


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## Maggot

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

I'll definately get that as I thought the first book was very good. By the way do you think that Brom is loosely based on Gandalf?


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## HLGStrider

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

I liked it. When I was discussing it with Rhi before she said she really wanted to take a red pencil to it (this was before I had read it), and upon reading it, I agree with her. If I had been C. P.'s editor he wouldn't have gotten away with some of the style he used. I wouldn't have let him had a villain with "Maroon" eyes either. Maroon is a word that should never be used in connection with a villain. It's like having a fuscia colored villain. . .shudders. . .

I also think that he is a bit predictable, but I only think that because I have so many dang guesses about what will happen in the next book(s). I have no proof that it will happen, but I know it will, and I am all-knowing.






Maybe true predictions by all-knowing one. . .






I forget his name but the guy with the M name that he meets is his half-brother, perhaps his full brother. 

Eragon gets the Elf.

M guy is going to have a Romeo and Juliet with the chief's daughter but will probably end up going bad and breaking her heart and then dying. I hope not, because I like him a lot better than I like Eragon. I find tall, dark, sulky guys attractive. I just think it is likely with the way the plot is shaping up.


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

The "M-guy's" name is Murtagh.
And here are some of my predictions, which will be wrong _if_ Christopher Paolini is a good writer.
-Brom is Eragon's father.
-Eragon's definately going to get Arya.
-Eragon will overthrow Galbatorix and Murtagh will become king.
-Saphira will die.  
-Ingolmo


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## HLGStrider

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Die but have hatchlings first.

I initially suspected the Brom-father thing, but then Murtagh showed up and he was so dang obviously Eragon's evil older brother and since he is the son of the bad guy. . .but that could be why the second book is called Eldest. . .I don't know. I guess since there are only two of them, it would be Elder.

There is enough mystery about both boys' mothers that they could very well be the same person and Brom could have been helping her flee her husband when.. . you know. . .but then why would she have gone back, which she apparently did?


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*



HLGStrider said:


> There is enough mystery about both boys' mothers that they could very well be the same person and Brom could have been helping her flee her husband when.. . you know. . .but then why would she have gone back, which she apparently did?



You're right there. That's what I think. 
But did you forget Roran, Eragon's cousin. He was older than Eragon, and Paolini's already revealed that Roran will be involoved a lot in _Eldest_
And then look at the title of the trilogy: _Inheritance_ 
You know the olden-times custom of inheritance, in which the eldest son inherits his father's position, fortune, etc. For example, the eldest brother always becomes king. So do you think that _Eldest_ will have something to do with Roran, Eragon, and Murtagh's inheritance or something.
I only have guesses.  

-Ingolmo


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## Maggot

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Good ideas you two I haven't looked that deeply into it what with re-reading LOTR and everything. You know what I think that Eragon could be Galbotorix's son, lame I know but it could happen. Murtagh was carried away along with the twins near the end of the book by the horn blokes (forgotten their name) so maybe he'll be killed but that I doubt. I've also thought about Brom being Eragon's dad I thought that was true but with Brom's death how will that come out? But that would explain why Brom launched himself in front of the knife aimed at Eragon to protect his son. I don't think that Murtagh is Eragon's older brother mainly because I believe that Brom is Eragon's father and Murtagh is the son of Morzan the last of the forsworn. It's all vey confusing trying to guess everything.


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## HLGStrider

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Half-brother is the obvious answer. . .Roran might be involved somehow, but I don't think it will involve inheritance simply because his relationship between Murtagh and Eragon can't be through any of the interesting characters. 

Eragon's mom was just a simple country lass, right? I mean, there is nothing so far revealed about his family to make it interesting. 

I think it more likely that Roran will be bribed or threatened into betraying his cousin. My initial thoughts involved in the prediction of betrayal by kin was that it would come from Murtagh who would be revealed to be kin, but the more I like Murtagh the more I wouldn't really care if it were Roran.


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## HLGStrider

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Also, do any of you know how old Murtagh was? I don't think it was listed, but it is possible he is older than Roran.


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*



HLGStrider said:


> I think it more likely that Roran will be bribed or threatened into betraying his cousin. My initial thoughts involved in the prediction of betrayal by kin was that it would come from Murtagh who would be revealed to be kin, but the more I like Murtagh the more I wouldn't really care if it were Roran.


That could turn out to be quite close. And, Murtagh could turn out to be Eragon's half-brother; both have the same mother. The way I think inheritance will come into play will be that something that was Brom's will have to be inherited to his son, Eragon (if Eragon is his son...), but that time there could be a dispute over who gets it with Murtagh, or even Roran, which could lead to betrayal. Who knows? A simpler option would be to forget Eragon till August 23rd and read _Eldest_ then.
-Ingolmo


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## Corvis

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*



ingolmo said:


> Gosh Corvis, can you stop replying 'that's true' after all my posts?


 
 Ha, ha, ha. Sorry, it's a habit. 

Are you keeping track?


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*



Corvis said:


> Ha, ha, ha. Sorry, it's a habit.
> 
> Are you keeping track?



It wasn't really hard to notice, as both your affirmative replies to my posts came on the same day, and I read them within a time period of 15 minutes. 
And, I can recongnise you easily as your _avatar_ has exactly the same picture of Tolkien as is on the front cover of my copy of the Hobbit.  
-Ingolmo


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## Corvis

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

That's funny. My avatar is on the _back _of my Hobbit book and all of my LOTR books. That's why I chose it.


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Sorry about that. I checked the cover of my copy of _The Hobbit_, that photograph of Tolkien is on the back cover.  On the front cover there is a picture of the dwarves entering the Long Lake in barrels and Bilbo behind them hanging onto a barrel. The publisher of my copy is Ballantine Fantasy.
-Ingolmo


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## Maggot

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

There is many similarities between the characters in the book. Like Eragon and Frodo both who didn't think they were heroic and just insignificant in the bigger picture but then they turn out to be heroes. The razac and the Nazgul have a similar description and Brom and Gandalf seem very similar. Morzan also seems similar to the witch king the enemy's most faithful servant but Morzan doesn't really feature in the story as he was killed before Eragon was born.


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## Corvis

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Whooa!!!! Ingolmo we have the same exact Hobbit book. It was published in the seventies right, and it has a foreword by Peter S. Beagle doesn't it. Do you have the box set of the Hobbit and LOTR.


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Yeah Corvis, we do have the same copy of the hobbit, same foremord, cover, publishing date and all that. But my LotR books are probably different, since I bought them seperately after reading the hobbit. They were published in 2001 I think. 
-Ingolmo


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## Corvis

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

That's funny I've always wondered if someone else had the same copy of my Tolkien books. If you can try to get LOTR by Ballantine Fantasy also, their great.


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## ingolmo

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

But I do have LotR books by Ballantine fantasy. 
They're all paperback, FotR has a picture of Frodo/Elijah Wood on it, TTT has a picture of Saruman on it, and RotK has a picture of Aragorn on it.


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## HLGStrider

*Re: Christopher Paollini's Eragon.*

Grunt. Hint. On topic?


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## Majimaune

*eragon... lotr tryhard?*

ok ive read alot that tells me alot of people dont like the book eragon so i thought id start this thread
i personal do think it is a bit but i want to know what other people think


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## Erestor Arcamen

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

yeah, never heard of it


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## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

First, this might do better in the Green Dragon, or Related Topics. Oh MODS?  
I wasn't a fan of _Eragon_. I read it, but didn't bother to continue to _Eldest_...the writing seemed juvenile to me, and far too cliched.



Oh, and dear Majimananana...not to be anal, but have you ever heard of the Shift key? It does wonders for Capitilization.


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Yeah I Have Heard Of The Shift Key But Im To Lazy To Put It On So I Think I'll Do It In Capitals
Ea Youve Never Heard Of It Well Some People Havent So How Cares


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## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Majimaune said:


> i personal do think it is a bit but i want to know what other people think


 
It is a bit what? 
Anyway, I don't greatly dislike or like Eragon. I thought it had some ill written bits and a lot of mild plagurism, but basically it was well done and an interesting read.

Evil Mod moves thread. . .


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## Aulë

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Majimaune said:


> Yeah I Have Heard Of The Shift Key But Im To Lazy To Put It On So I Think I'll Do It In Capitals
> Ea Youve Never Heard Of It Well Some People Havent So How Cares


 
The maturity of some of the members on this board is overwhelming...


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Yeah thanks Aule but I am only 14

e.blackstar I used capitals


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Well, first I wish to defend Christopher Paolini. It is not easy to get a book published, let alone write one. I think a lot of things were to similar *coughs names coughs* and a few phrases. Once I've read them [Eragon and Eldest] again, I will make a list of things which I think are too similar to other books.
For those of you who have read Eragon, but didn't continue to Eldest, please do. It is significantly better, and worth reading. Go easy on an author, or rip him limb from limb. Don't be wishy-washy.

PS: EA, what was the point of saying you haven't heard of the books?


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## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



> e.blackstar I used capitals



Yes, we're all very proud. (*points at avi with a sardonic grin*)


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Well I was just reading Eragon this morning and I read somethings

Theres a endless stairway in a dwalf city 
The name of the stairway is Vol Turin 
the dwlf king lives for a long time (same with Dain Ironfoot King under the Mountain)
 Thats about all i can think of at the minute so hopefully I'll get some more to you


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## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Wasn't there something about the elves "going away across the sea" or somesuch nonsense?


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## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Noldor_returned said:


> Well, first I wish to defend Jonathon Stroud. It is not easy to get a book published, let alone write one. I think a lot of things were to similar *coughs names coughs* and a few phrases.


 
Do you mean Christopher Paolini?


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

What are you talking about? Who mentioned Jonathon Stroud?


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



> Do you mean Christopher Paolini?


Yeah I do mean Christopher Paolini
Yes there is so stuff about elves from over the sea


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Majimaune said:


> Yes there is so stuff about elves from over the sea


i forgot to put something ive gone on to read eldest and theres a woman called Ellessari


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## Wonko The Sane

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Majimaune said:


> Yeah thanks Aule but I am only 14
> 
> e.blackstar I used capitals



You don't have to be 80 to know how to use the shift key. You're old enough to know how to capitalise words, and you should be old enough to know that if you want people to take you seriously you should attempt to make your posts look presentable.


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## ingolmo

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

There was an Eragon thread somewhere..., but no one ever posted on it once Corvis and I were banned to talk about the back covers of our hobbit books on it. 

Anyway, I do like the _Inheritance trilogy_, even though some things were just stolen from LotR (Ringwraiths=Ra'zac). For those of you who think it is improperly written, you have to remember that Paolini was 15 when he wrote _Eragon_ and 17 when it was published. And I seriously will have a word with whoever thinks that it's no mean feat to have a book published at 17. Moreover, that was his first book, and he's bound to improve; he's 21 right now. _Eldest_ was by far a much better book. More _Tolkienical_, if I could say that.


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## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



> you have to remember that Paolini was 15 when he wrote Eragon



Yes, it's commendable, but the problem is: he wrote it when he was 15 and _I can tell_. His writing style immediatly struck me as juvenile.


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## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

He'll improve though. He is already improving, and maybe someday we'll see a huge rewrite of the section. 

Gosh, I would love to get a mediocre but well selling book published so I could quit my day job and then work totally on improving my writing rather than squeezing it in on lunch breaks and at odd hours. I'd write a well selling advertising jingle for that. . .


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

As I said, I will list as many plagiarisms as possible, but it could take me a few months. I think most similarities are more than just coincidence.
I think Paolini was under a lot of Tolkien influence, sort of like a drug. He subconsciously did what he did. That's my explanationing.


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Yeah the Ra'zac are like the Nazgul and alot of names where stolen but geting a book writen by the age of 15 and published by *his fathers publishing compony* is pretty good. I mean I'm writing a book and I'm only upto Chapter 4. Poulini did have a lot of help from family and friends having the right connections can always help.


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## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Getting a book written by 15 is a big thing, certainly. (Though getting a _good_ book written by 15 is apparently a good deal harder...)
But I wonder if he would have gotten published had his father not owned a company.


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## ingolmo

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

It was a good book. It was a bestseller, after all. 

And if it weren't for his family publishing company and the support, help, and inspiration he got from his family, I don't think that he would even started writing a novel, let alone publish one.


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## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I need relatives in the publishing business . . . Elgee mopes. 

I think it worked out very well for him, and I like the book simply because it gives me "Heck, if he can I can." 

I feel that way whenever I come across something in a book I think I could have done better. I think, "Heck, if I can do better, then I must be as good as they are so I must be publishable someday!" It's very encouraging.


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Hehe now for my evil plot to reviel things.

Heres one of the many lotr phrases he's used in the book Eldest.



> Nasuada faltered, disconcerned then forged ahead. "Would you be willing to keep an eye on Elva for me? I need-"
> Of course! And I'll keep two eyeson her if I can spare them..."



And then theres.



> _who is he_ asked saphira.
> Arya said "He is Gilderien the Wise, Prince of House Miolandra, Wielder of the White Flame of Vandil, and Guardian of Ellesmera...



There my evil plot has begun.

P.S. Anyone else is free to help me.

P.P.S. They are direct quotes.

P.P.P.S. I wont be here for awhile I'm going away.


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## Wonko The Sane

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Can somebody please explain to me what Eragon is?


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## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

It's a book. . .well, _Eragon_ is the first book in the series. _Eldest_ is the second. I think the series is called _Inheritance_.

They were written by a very young author, sold rather well, and copy a lot from other fantasy series.


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## Wonko The Sane

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

What's the premise of the story? Plot? Main character?

Just curious.

I wrote a book when I was 12-13. I'm pretty sure it was rubbish, but at the time I thought it was great. I wouldn't know though, it was lost when my first computer crashed beyond belief. When I was a kid I was rubbish at dialogue and a bit given over to flowery prose.

And from the quotes given it sounds like this kid is no different. 

My book was a Star Wars book though, so I wasn't really stealing.  I was adding to the series.


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## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

(Disclaimer: This is all based on my memory, and I've only read the book once, several years ago.)

It's about a young kid named Eragon who, while he's out hunting, finds a large shiny rock and takes it home. It turns out to be a dragon egg, and hatches into a a baby named Saphira. Eragon is away from home when something TRAGIC happens, and he takes the dragon and runs off into a world of peril.


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## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

The lead character Eragon is a farm boy who one day finds a strange stone that hatches into a dragon. The evil king sends messengers after the dragon because he had killed off all dragon riders but himself and wants to capture/kill Eragon and his dragon, Saphira. They basically burn down the kid's farm while he is away one day and he, the dragon, and an elderly, mysterious neighbor run for it. Rescue an elven princess. Meet a mysterious wanderer. Join rebels. 

It's decent, but a lot of it I've seen elsewhere.

I don't care for Eragon himself. I'm not sure if I could define his character. I like some of the side characters. I really liked Murtagh until he all too predictably. . . are we giving spoilers? If so I predicted every bit of the last scene between Murtagh and Eragon in eldest. It was the only way it made sense. Dang. I like Murtagh a ton more than Eragon. He reminded me of a grumpier, angrier version of my Marine. . . I always associate him with the villains. . .it's that devil dog thing, I guess. . .

E and I replied at the same time and she was quicker than me. . .dang.


----------



## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



> The lead character Eragon is a farm boy who one day finds a strange stone that hatches into a dragon. The evil king sends messengers after the dragon because he had killed off all dragon riders but himself and wants to capture/kill Eragon and his dragon, Saphira. They basically burn down the kid's farm while he is away one day and he, the dragon, and an elderly, mysterious resident of the village run for it. Rescue an elven princess. Meet a mysterious wanderer. Join rebels.



What she said.


----------



## Wonko The Sane

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

So, what's the problem with this book?

The fact you've seen it all before? Plenty of good books are written from tried and tested perspectives and storylines.

The fact that the kid's writing is ****? Pretty unforgiveable. Just cos a kid writes a book doesn't mean his dad should publish it. Not all the trash that gets written deserves to be published.

Lack of good characters? Again, something I'd not forgive easily.

That it was predictable? Plenty of books are predictable, but they're not necessarily ****.

Just curious. Based on your reviews I don't really want to read the thing...I just want to know if it has any redeeming qualities...and how a 15 year old can publish a rubbish book!!?!


----------



## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

It has an interesting plot and some very intriguing parts. It simply could use re-written in places. I don't have a problem with the book, per say, but I do like to mock it where it very obvious ripped off rather than made up. 

Predictability I can stand. It's kind of fun to be right when you make predictions. I love figuring out mysterious before the detective in the book. . .

I think the way it worked was that he was published prematurely. In about five years he could have reworked the book into something truly fantastic. He has the talent. He just is rough around the edges. However, the idea sold before maturity, and it took off. That's why I think someday he may rewrite the series or write something better.


----------



## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Wonko The Sane said:


> So, what's the problem with this book?
> 
> The fact you've seen it all before? Plenty of good books are written from tried and tested perspectives and storylines.
> 
> The fact that the kid's writing is ****? Pretty unforgiveable. Just cos a kid writes a book doesn't mean his dad should publish it. Not all the trash that gets written deserves to be published.
> 
> Lack of good characters? Again, something I'd not forgive easily.
> 
> That it was predictable? Plenty of books are predictable, but they're not necessarily ****.
> 
> Just curious. Based on your reviews I don't really want to read the thing...I just want to know if it has any redeeming qualities...and how a 15 year old can publish a rubbish book!!?!




I for one don't think that it's TERRIBLE, just not good enough to merit reading _Eldest_. I've nothing actually AGAINST it though.


----------



## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I think my description will be a bit better...I've read Eldest.

In Eragon, it starts in a small town that hardly anyone goes to. The land is being ruled by an Dragon Rider, called Galbatorix, who turned against the old Dragon Riders (sort of like Anakin in Ep. 3). Eragon, the main character, finds a stone, and takes it home. He hides it, telling no-one of its existence.
One day, he is out, and he returns home to find it burned to the ground. He decides he cannot risk the dragon being found, and leaves, never to return...

Or something like that.


----------



## Wonko The Sane

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Noldor_returned said:


> I think my description will be a bit better...I've read Eldest.
> 
> In Eragon, it starts in a small town that hardly anyone goes to. The land is being ruled by an Dragon Rider, called Galbatorix, who turned against the old Dragon Riders (sort of like Anakin in Ep. 3). Eragon, the main character, finds a stone, and takes it home. He hides it, telling no-one of its existence.
> One day, he is out, and he returns home to find it burned to the ground. He decides he cannot risk the dragon being found, and leaves, never to return...
> 
> Or something like that.



Your description was the same as theirs...


----------



## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

No! I am more crazy!

Sorry, wrong people...Ah well, I wanted to try. I liked them both, and will read Inheritance. Yet, the plagiarism was annoying. However, unlike some people it seems, I do not give up on a book when some things start to become a bit similar to others.


----------



## e.Blackstar

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



> However, unlike some people it seems, I do not give up on a book when some things start to become a bit similar to others.



Wow, _that_ was subtle...
As I've said, it wasn't the too-close-to-plagarism that made me 'give up'. I just didn't like his writing style.


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## Rhiannon

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I don't think _Eregon_ deserved to be published. Yes, it's impressive that a sixteen year old completed a very very long novel. That's very good for him, and it's fantastic that his parents were encouraging enough to help him self-publish before he was picked up by a publishing company. It is hard work to write a novel, and it is even harder work to get published. 

But _Eregon_, which I did not finish, because my desire to rip it up with a red pen made attempting to read it too frustrating, still didn't deserve to be published. It's extremely amateurish, the writing is poor and uninteresting (particularly the descriptions, which are all 'tell' and no 'show', and dialogue), the setting and plot are extremely derivative, and while I understand that the publishing company edited out some 500 words worth of material from the original self-published book, they didn't edit nearly enough. The beginning, as far as I read, was slow, dull, and clumsy. No publishing house of any quality would have even considered a manuscript of similar quality written by an adult, which leads me to believe that Mr. Paolini was only picked up by the publishing house because someone thought 'hey, this is a really long book by a teenager. Let's publish it as a novelty item and get lots of press, which will help us sell books.' 

If you wouldn't publish it by an adult, don't publish it by a child. Or a teenager. Or a talking monkey. 

I'm prepared to believe that _Eldest_ is a much better book--the third one will probably improve even more. Writing, like any other skill, takes practice. Writing well also takes experience. I have no reason to think that, in another five years, Mr. Paolini won't be a very fine writer. But he has a lot of work to do before he gets there.


----------



## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Rhiannon said:


> If you wouldn't publish it by an adult, don't publish it by a child. Or a teenager. Or a talking monkey.


 
Why not? If the monkey is clever enough to talk, I would...although I guess that says a lot about me...


----------



## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I didn't give up. I've read Eldest. I actually went so far as to buy it even though I agree with Rhi that the writing in Eragorn needs serious work. Why? Because I like the idea. I actually like picking apart the book with "AH HA! You took that straight from Tolkien/McCafferty/Jordan/Whatever." It's fun.

And I am fully expecting the kid to improve and like I said, I'd publish something mediocre if it meant funding my dreams, which Paolini is probably full into the swing of carrying out. The only danger is that the sucess he's achieved at this level won't cause him to be complacent about improving.


----------



## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I just finished reading eldest last night (NR copy) and I thought I'd share this with you
Its alot better thatn eEragon and i think some people who didnt think to much of Eragon (like myself) should read it

P.S. Have a good Australia Day today all you Aussies and barack for us in the cricket (we need to win)


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## Niirewen

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I know I am going against popular opinion here, but I actually like the _Inheritance_ triology so far. It took me awhile to get into Paolini's style, and I would agree that his writing could definately be improved, but I thought the books were an entertaining read, even though they were a bit cliche. Also, I think that the second book, _Eldest_, was much better than the first. I plan on reading the third book once it comes out.

As for the "mild plagiarism," the influence of other fantasy writers, especially Tolkien, is obvious in his story. Off the top of my head, besides the "I'll keep two eyes on her if I can spare them" part Majimaune already mentioned, there is one part where the queen of the elves said, "I am diminished," which reminded me of Galadriel. Also, one of the main characters is named Arya (I'm thinking of George R. R. Martin).

Of course Paolini's books aren't among the best I've read, but overall, I did enjoy them. Just my two cents.


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I agree with Niirrewen. I liked them. And for Majimaune:

GO AUSSIE!!!

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!!!
OI OI OI!!!


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## ingolmo

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

To Majimaune and Noldor_returned, do me a favour and go to the Cricket thread in Stuff and Bother. It's been inactive for ages, and we need some Cricket discussion at TTF.


----------



## Wonko The Sane

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

As long as we're talking about bad writing can somebody pretty please explain to me what the attempt at a sentence "eragon... lotr tryhard?" is supposed to mean?


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## HLGStrider

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

I think it means did the writer attempt to immitate Lord of the Rings or not . . . maybe?


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

It means is eragon too much like LOTR I want to know what other people think
You happy Wonko the Sane or is it Insane


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## Wonko The Sane

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*



Majimaune said:


> It means is eragon too much like LOTR I want to know what other people think
> You happy Wonko the Sane or is it Insane



Yes, but "eragon...lotr tryhard?" doesn't make any sense. Why couldn't you have written "Eragon: Is it too much like LotR?" or something more...coherent?

And yes, I am happy, thank you.  And I'm not insane, _you're_ insane!


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## Noldor_returned

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

No, I'm insane! Mwahahahaha! Insanity is awesome!


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## Majimaune

*Re: eragon... lotr tryhard?*

Wonko thats to long for me to write. I'm an Aussie and I'm lazy so I couldn't be bothered to write it.

Yes NR you are insane


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## yhwh1st

You know what's pathetic? My cousins made me read the two Eragon books because they said they were better than lotr! I am far from thinking them better than lotr.

I did enjoy the stories, but think that his writing style could be improved as well as his origionality. I agree that it is a "lotr tryhard". I think I could do better. I am starting my own fantacy book but am trying hard not to immitate Tolkien, or anyone else for that matter.


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## Majimaune

Yeah I know what you mean by its hard to copy Tolkien for I myself am writing a book (I think I already meantioned that in this thread to see more go into one of the inns and find a thread titled Auther).

Hey I dont remember giving this thread the title of Christopher Paollini's Eragon. I remember giving it 'Eragon... LOTR Tryhard' or something like that. And its not only Eragon but Eldest as well so Christopher Paollini's Eragon is a bit of a bad title seeing as its both books of the trillagy.


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## Noldor_returned

Well, I too, like many others, am writing a book whilst trying hardly to keep it original. But as I said, I will make a list of "copied themes" in Eragon.

Can I just say though, at 15, it is extremely difficult to be influenced by something and not try to make your own thing which is worthy of the same recognition.


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## Majimaune

Hey about my last post dont worry too much about that thing that i said about what I called this thread. I discovered (by looking at the start of this thread) that it was merged with another thread, which was a thing I did not know could be done.

Oh and NR your younger then me. Your only 14 not 15.


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## Noldor_returned

Yes, yes, I know that, but it's close enough to 15. We are both book writers ourselves, and you should know how difficult it is to stay away from your influences. The easiest way to do this is write a story with a different genre.

But about Paolini. I don't think he was all that greatly influenced by LOTR itself- just some of the concepts. For instance, he made it so elves and dwarrows had a disagreement about a possession, something Tolkien did. However, Tolkien also showed that the two kinds could get along, which was what Paolini also did.

Note my use of the word dwarrows- a lasting influence brought on by Tolkien.


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## HLGStrider

I've unintentionally plagurized before. Often I plagurize before I've read the book I rip off because some ideas in fantasy are just too cool not to be thought of simultaneously, have a lot of cool variations, and are spread thin enough that you pick them up without even knowing it.

Por ejemplo: In one of my "lesser works," _The Wizard of Silbay_, I introduced a form of communication where Wizards talk to each other through a device I'd thought up by combining modern instant messaging and _Myst_ linking books, so I already had admited some "influence," but heck, you can't rip off a computer game. . . So, you write something in the book, you writing disappears, writing from the person with the other books appears.

A couple of months after I invented this device, but while I was still writing the same book, I finally got around to picking up the second Harry Potter book (I'm not really a fan of these, but I was still babysitting occasionally at the time so every so often I'd get a copy shoved at me by an enthusiastic pre-teen). I thought, "Oh dang, this is pretty similar. . .but wait, the diary is actually alive and my book is just a link between two persons. That's OK." 

Still, when I let a creative writing class read the first chapter (I only used the device in the first chapter) of the novel and waited to see if they though I'd ripped off Rowling or Cyan (whoever does _Myst_.). Instead, one lady in the class asked if I'd borrowed it off a fantasy book I'd never read and scarcely heard of (I want to say it was _Sword of S????_, which I think is Terry Goodkind, but I can't remember for sure.). 

A _lot_ of fantasy devices are similar. How many versions of mysterious, silent characters in dark cloaks who don't really like the sun are there? I know I've used it, because it is just so much scarier to be chased by some presence that could be anything or nothing at all than some monster with three eyes and six horns or a head of a skull or whatever you want to paint in. That's where we get Nazgul and RaZac (sp?) and those shade thingies from Robert Jordan (were they shades or mages or what?). In fact, these things are always less scary once they've been "de-cloaked."


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## Violanthe

I read this book and wasn't terribly impressed. Here's my review if anyone is interested: http://www.arwz.com/zinereviewVIO27.html


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## Majimaune

Ahh NR I'm closer to 15 then you are.

Yes plagerism is very had to avoide and even harder when your writing a book like one of Tolkien's.
Anyone know any good authers other then Tolkien and Eoin Colfer that there are books i should read?


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## yhwh1st

C.S. Lewis. I actually haven't read his _Out of the Silent Planet_ series but I think I (or one of my family members) have that lodged away somewhere. Hmmm, I should pick that up... His _Chronicles of Narnia_ series I still really enjoy, even at 20. Lewis and Tolkien were actually very good friends and were both professors at.... Oxford?

I also just had inspiration for a modern day suspense novel. Oooooooh! *shivers* I think, if I do this one right, it might actully turn out to be a half-way decent piece of work!


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## Majimaune

I've read Chronicles of Narnia a while ago mayhap when I was 11 or 12.

Has anyone read or even heard of Biggles Learns to Fly, Biggles in France or Biggles Defeats the Shwatzstica or some Biggles books. Their good.

I think I might read Eragon and Eldest soon so I can post stuff on all the plagerism.


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## Mike

I finally got around to reading Eragon a few weeks ago. I read the prologue and a bit of chapter one.

I have one word:

Yech.

Needless to say i didn't get any further. This is worst than my Dragonlance-induced vommiting. I don't think I'll be able to stand for days.

(And I know I rooted for this book a while back, but only under the impression it was written by a 15-year old. Well, this 15 year old wasn't a very good writer--the stuff i wrote when I was 12 sounded better than that clunky style).

Apparently the second book hasn't improved. From the reviews, it seems to be more bloated and derivative than the first.

And here's an interesting quote from our dear Paollini:

"I try to achieve a lyric beauty like that of Tolkien at his best and...Beowulf."

Huh?

With that though I leave you.


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## Majimaune

Mike said:


> I have one word:
> 
> Yech.


 I agree, although at first I did like the book when I got into it I saw the plagurism.



Mike said:


> (And I know I rooted for this book a while back, but only under the impression it was written by a 15-year old. Well, this 15 year old wasn't a very good writer--the stuff i write when I was 12 sounded better than that clunky style).


Yeah so was mine. I mean I'm almost 15 now and I still write better then that (even though I have really bad spelling).



Mike said:


> "I try to achieve a lyric beauty like that of Tolkien at his best and...Beowulf."


I laugh.


That was all I had to say.


----------



## Jesse

I hate the series. The writing is poor and there is so many spelling errors it drives me nuts!


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## Noldor_returned

Some countries spell words different ways...

Okay, looking past the writing style, what did you all think of the plot? If, say Tolkien or Rowling had written it with the exact same plot, would it change how you felt about the book?


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## Jesse

I would still believe what I believe about Paolini's work. Even if it was as you said...


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## Ermundo

The author's has potential, Mikey and NR, more than anyone of us. I dare say I would go far enough to say that you two lack the right to call Paolini a bad writer. You say that you wrote better as a 12 year old Mike my boy, but yet you never got the book published. When Paolini got the opportuinity to publish a book, he took the chance, which takes much more confidence than anyone here has, ESPECIALLY if the guy is 15. And if his writing style is so bad, then why I say is it so flipin popular. Not everyone that reads the books is a kid.

We all have opinions, and you can say what you will 'bout the book, but don't diss the man behind the book. Cause unlike any of us, he's problably more worthy of being the next Tolkien than most other people. Sure, he has critics, and maybe his books are a tad (or 50) beyond the boundary, but he's still only 15, and he took the courage to do something that a brave person would do. Some people don't like his style, but in the end, the stuff of the story is what counts, and many more people than not look to that and appreciate it.

Get me?


----------



## Noldor_returned

I do, but at what point did I say he was a bad writer? I've been the one saying I liked the books all along. It's been everyone else saying how bad he was. I just said there was a lot of similarities between it and LOTR.

And what would you say if I was a published author?


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## Ermundo

It's one thing to say something, and another to do, NR.


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## HLGStrider

He has a lot of potential; I'll say that too. I think at times I've written better than him, but I don't know if I could do the volume he has, and to do it before you are 18 is exceptionally good. A lot of adult writers have somehow managed to get published with worse. I've read them.

Still, I will say, I've caught the guy with a lot of langauge that should've been sliced down for eloquence. I've caught him snatching and stealing a lot from other writers.

I'd like to see what he does in the future.


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## Noldor_returned

No one has answered my question. Elgee skirted around it, but what about the plot? Did you/ didn't you like it? Why? Please, I thought it was a good concept.


----------



## Mike

> You say that you wrote better as a 12 year old Mike my boy, but yet you never got the book published. When Paolini got the opportuinity to publish a book, he took the chance, which takes much more confidence than anyone here has, ESPECIALLY if the guy is 15


 
He wasn't 15. He started the book when he was 15. He published it at 17. He's now in his 20s.

#2, his parents owned a publishing company. It was self-published before the marketers took hold of it. So really, he didn't need guts. He just needed proud parents.

#3 Now I'm in the same boat as paollini, because my stuff is being sent off for publishing.

And that's probably all I'm ever going to say about this topic, because I really don't care anymore. I WILL watch the movie, because I'm a big fan of John Malkovich and Jeremy Irons. But i won't bother reading any of his books until they stop calling him "kid Tolkien" and instead praise him for striking out in his own territory.

Who wants to be the "next Tolkien"? Don't people want to be remembered for writing something that is completely theirs?


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## Majimaune

Mike said:


> And that's probably all I'm ever going to say about this topic, because I really don't care anymore. I WILL watch the movie, because I'm a big fan of John Malkovich and Jeremy Irons. But i won't bother reading any of his books until they stop calling him "kid Tolkien" and instead praise him for striking out in his own territory.
> 
> Who wants to be the "next Tolkien"? Don't people want to be remembered for writing something that is completely theirs?


 I will probably go and see the movie as well (NR how bout in the hols sometime). Ant the Tolkien kid thing. I havent heard that but now I have I think they are only calling him that cause of all the plaguerism.

And the "who wants to be the next Tolkien" question. If I was them then I would want to be remembered for _*ORIGANAL*_ works rather then something like Tolkien's. It would still be in the Fantasy section of Fiction but I would add in some Sci-Fi to make it interesting.


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## Noldor_returned

Yeah, I'll go see it. Hopefully it will be good, and once I finish the current series I'm reading (Dragonlance) I will get onto that list.


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## Majimaune

The movie comes out on Thursday the 14th of December for us Aussies.


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## Noldor_returned

I'm planning to start reading the books again in two weeks exactly. Which happens to coincide with the holidays...


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## Erestor Arcamen

Here are some reviews of the thing, I got the book just cause I'm open minded and will read anything, so here goes:

_School Library Journal_, while noting correctly that the book would garner many fans, added that it "does not approach the depth, uniqueness, or mastery of J. R. R. Tolkien's works, and sometimes the magic solutions are just too convenient for getting out of difficult situations."
_Common Sense Media_, a family-friendly review site, was particularly scathing, stating that, "It's not long, however, before they begin to notice the long-winded descriptions, the clichés and hackneyed dialogue, and the derivative nature of the plot—straight out of _Star Wars_ by way of _The Lord of the Rings_, with bits of other great fantasies thrown in here and there. That this is a great achievement for one so young is undeniable, and many children will love it. It certainly ranks right up there with other derivative, overblown fantasies written by adults, such as Terry Brooks's Sword of Shannara series."[5]
This criticism from _USAToday_ mirrors _Common Sense Media_'s accusation of derivative storytelling: "The novel also owes a debt to Luke Skywalker as the teen hero trains to be a Dragon Rider while avenging his uncle's murder,"[6] as well as the fact that the book "echoes Tolkien in its pseudo-Celtic language and imagined universe of dwarfs and elves."



Has anyone seen this site: http://www.anti-shurtugal.com/ It's pretty funny haha, its a few people who like hate Eragon and are doing whatever it takes, and describes exactly what parts from other series was plagarized in Eragon. Some of it's still under construction, but they have the star wars section up and all the similarities and all.


----------



## Sammyboy

Interesting reviews there Erestor, just one thought I'd like to throw into the mix here.

Since the release of LoTR, the Star Wars films etc., they have been a huge benchmark for films/books that have followed their respective releases. Therefore anything in the fantasy/sci fi genres are going to be held up to these two, and other books/programmes too, and there will no doubt be similarities found between the 'old' and the 'new'. Especially to those on this board, many of which are very familiar with Tolkien's works, or have been around them for many years. 

I am perhaps being naieve here, but there must be a fairly finite amount of storylines, plotlines and so on that these kinds of books can follow without being considered 'derivative' or plaigarism.

I would love to write a fantasy book on the scale of LoTR and the whole Middle Earth world in general, but whatever I would write would doubtlessly sound or feel very 'Lord of the Rings' (though as I've never written before so would no doubt be simply 'rubbish!'  )

I'm not having a go at anyone here of course, just putting another viewpoint forward. I've not read any of the Eragon books, and may no doubt come to the same conclusions as many of these reviewers and people here have.


----------



## Erestor Arcamen

well like i said, i never read the book yet but i was just posting my findings. I understand completely what you mean about the finite amount of plot and story outlines.


----------



## Mike

> Has anyone seen this site: http://www.anti-shurtugal.com/ It's pretty funny haha, its a few people who like hate Eragon and are doing whatever it takes, and describes exactly what parts from other series was plagarized in Eragon. Some of it's still under construction, but they have the star wars section up and all the similarities and all.


 
Thanks for the link. It was pretty funny, and a good portion of it is true. I checked out the forums: turns out there's a large community of Eragon-haters spewing Virtriol. Some of the stuff they say is really, really, really mean.

I did smile when they called Christopher "Paoweenie", however. 

But they really do take things too far (from what I read). The threads about the author especially. As I said--really mean.

Makes you wonder if there's an anti-Tolkien site, complete with a forum, somewhere.



> I am perhaps being naieve here, but there must be a fairly finite amount of storylines, plotlines and so on that these kinds of books can follow without being considered 'derivative' or plaigarism.


 
Bah. If that were true, I'd give up writing right now. Not everything has to be the same.

I don't say I'd go as far as saying Eragon "plagerized" anything--I didn't read the whole book--prose was too purple and painful--but it definately is derivative.

And so is "Sword of Shannarah" and "Dragonlance" and every fantasy book I hate.

Paollini's age has nothing to do with it--whatever age you are, there is no excuse for bad writing. I'm pointing at Margeret Weis and Tracy Hickman right now!



> It certainly ranks right up there with other derivative, overblown fantasies written by adults, such as Terry Brooks's Sword of Shannara series."[5]


 
Just realized that's exactly what I just said.

Ah, well. Christmas Break is coming up, and I'm planning on watching a lot of movies--Children of Men, Apocolypto, 300. I'll be watching Eragon too, just for the heck of it (Go John Malcovich!).


----------



## HLGStrider

I would disagree with the age being no excuse because at some level it is . . . but it isn't an excuse for a publisher or editor.

The stuff I wrote at 13 isn't comparable to the stuff I wrote at 15 which in turn isn't comparable to 18 which in turn isn't as good as what I am writing now. Anywhere along the path I would've been broken hearted if someone had called my writing "bad" but I don't think it was bad by a thirteen-year-old standard. Compared to what most 13-year-olds could/would/do write, I would go as far as to say it is pretty dang good in parts. Still, when I read over it I sort of wince and think, "Hmm. . . that's melodramatic, that was obviously picked right out of Star Wars/Lord of the Rings/Narnia/Anne of Green Gables." 

When one is thirteen one does not have the life experience needed to write certain things and so you copy. Or you can make it up, but it just doesn't come out as well. Now with fantasy a lot is pure imagination. Very few people have ridden dragons (Though I think my writing would improve if I could ever get on a horse. . .), but still this experience factor is very important when dealing with emotion. For example my kissing scenes have definitely gotten a lot better since I caught my Marine . . .

Also, you just get better with writing and reading. Some prodigies just have it natural I suppose, but the majority don't.

Now, that said any publisher who had snatched up my work at 13,15, or even 18 and published it would probably be nuts. Currently, I think I am a better writer than Paolini. I probably wasn't when I was 15.


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## Mike

> I would disagree with the age being no excuse because at some level it is . . . but it isn't an excuse for a publisher or editor.


 
Exactly. If a book has many errors, and simply isn't written well, than it shouldn't be published--no matter what age you are.

I'm not getting any brownie points for my age in the magazine market. I get treated the same way as everyone else who sells short stories--age doesn't matter. Your finished product does.

I could pull out the stuff I wrote when I was 12 and say it was really good for a twelve year old. How many twelve year olds write a 250-page novel? But that doesn't mean it was ready for public consumption. It still means, in general, that it was bad.

People need time to develop and grow with writing. It's a painful process, to be sure, but it's worth it in the end.

Paollini has not reached the point in his writing where I believe its worth reading. Maybe he will. But at the moment, he's twenty-something and I took a peak at "Eldest"--it was just as juvenile, with the same horrid prose. Part of this may be that he did not yet have to deal with rejection--he wrote a book and his parents published it for him, at which Knopf saw it and saw a marketing ploy.

There are much worst books published by people much older than Paolinni, to be sure. But we don't give them any slack for their age. When you're at the published stage, age should no longer be an issue.

Your writing should.


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## Majimaune

You guys have too much time on your hands to write all that. It took me long enough to read it all.

Um I'm just checking out the link and stuff and will write more about what I thought of it later.


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## HLGStrider

One thing I would like to know (which I probably could find out if I took the time to look into it and knew where to look) is how much alteration there was between the self-published version and the version Knopf is running. That would make a HUGE difference in how I view Paolini as a writer. If they bought it up as a ploy and just published it unchanged, then I don't have a ton of respect for the way they handled it, but I think a lot of what we critisized is more than excusable. If this is the work of hours of editting to get it to this point, then Paolini probably doesn't have much of a future in writing. 

About a year ago I temporarily despaired of ever being published but still wanted to make my living somehow with the written word so I seriously looked into becoming a copy editor. I still think if I ever wanted to pursue it (I didn't want it enough to go back to college was the main hold up. I really hate college . . . but that's another story.), it would be a fascinating career, but there is a ton of work a copy writer does in order to help an author maintain consistency as well as stylistic and spelling issues. A lot of readers (one on the forum notably . . . I miss Rhi) said that the book simply gave her a desire to take a red pencil to it so she found it frustrating, but a red pencil is very powerful and it is basically what Paolini needs at points.

According to what I've read in my writer's guide book a manuscript goes through several alterations before it reaches the public. The first and the last should have considerable differences no matter how good the author. You don't just publish as is. Did Eragon?

His book is already sufficient in size that if you hacked out the superfluous descriptions it wouldn't hurt it. You'd still have a publishable sized book. Same with a few inconsistencies. A good editor could've smoothed them out.

The question is, why didn't they? 

There are four possible answers:

A. The author had already gained a following via self-publishing they were afraid of alienating by making changes (would have to be a LARGE following who they felt would threaten them financially). 
B. They thought that success was so sure there was no point in spending extra expense on more than proof editing. (ie publisher was cheep and lazy)
C. The whole thing really just was a ploy based on publishing a "kid" author and they didn't really care what the critics said. People would just buy it from curiousity.
D. This _is_ the edited version. They did all they could but Paolini's manuscript simply wasn't salvagable as anything but the copy they put on the market.

B and C are very similar and I think the most likely answers.


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## Majimaune

HLGStrider said:


> A. The author had already gained a following via self-publishing they were afraid of alienating by making changes (would have to be a LARGE following who they felt would threaten them financially).


Very possible but I think not.


HLGStrider said:


> B. They thought that success was so sure there was no point in spending extra expense on more than proof editing. (ie publisher was cheep and lazy)


Most likely out of all of them I think.


HLGStrider said:


> C. The whole thing really just was a ploy based on publishing a "kid" author and they didn't really care what the critics said. People would just buy it from curiousity.


Well I think the cover would get them in pretty quick. A dragon on it always looks good. Although people say "Don't judge a book by its cover" but everyone always does to some extent.


HLGStrider said:


> D. This _is_ the edited version. They did all they could but Paolini's manuscript simply wasn't salvagable as anything but the copy they put on the market.


If 'D' then I'd like to speak to the editor.

I'm reading Eragon again before I go and see the movie. I will also read Eldest if I can borrow it from some one *looks at NR*.


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## Rhiannon

HLGStrider said:


> I miss Rhi



You called? 

The bottom line is that _Eregon_ did not deserve to be published, at least not in its current form, and we're all very offended by the poor taste of the publishing world and of the media hype that makes bad books bestsellers. 

Tsk, tsk, I say, to the world in general. What do they teach them in these schools?


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## HLGStrider

Welcome back!


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## Majimaune

Rhiannon said:


> What do they teach them in these schools?


Well if you really want to know I can tell you......


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## Rhiannon

HLGStrider said:


> Welcome back!



Thanks!


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