# What if Teleri just gave them the boats?



## BalrogRingDestroyer (Oct 4, 2022)

One of the things that really turned the Valar against them was the first kinslaying over the boats. But what if the Teleri or whatever they're called had simply agreed to give them some boats to get the Simarils back?


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 4, 2022)

BalrogRingDestroyer said:


> One of the things that really turned the Valar against them was the first kinslaying over the boats. But what if the Teleri or whatever they're called had simply agreed to give them some boats to get the Simarils back?


There likely wouldn't have been a curse but there may well have still been a ban from returning. The Valar seem rather protective about people just coming and going. At least, that's the impression I got when, in one of Galadriel's MANY backgrounds, she fell under the ban simply for leaving when she "shouldn't have". Fëanor may well have still left his brothers behind.

Without a curse, though, Finarfin may not have come back to Valinor. 

Without a curse, the Valar may have intervened sooner, since the Sindar, Laegrim, Dwarves, and Humans had done nothing wrong and didn't deserve to get punished with Morgoth's terror and death.



ZehnWaters said:


> There likely wouldn't have been a curse but there may well have still been a ban from returning. The Valar seem rather protective about people just coming and going. At least, that's the impression I got when, in one of Galadriel's MANY backgrounds, she fell under the ban simply for leaving when she "shouldn't have". Fëanor may well have still left his brothers behind.
> 
> Without a curse, though, Finarfin may not have come back to Valinor.
> 
> Without a curse, the Valar may have intervened sooner, since the Sindar, Laegrim, Dwarves, and Humans had done nothing wrong and didn't deserve to get punished with Morgoth's terror and death.


HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT. The Oath of Fëanor was it's own thing and while a curse was added on top of it, it existed regardless.


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## Eljorahir (Oct 5, 2022)

Interesting alternative storyline.

*Feanor*: "Hey, you Teleri guys, give us your ships so we can go to Middle-earth."
*Teleri:* "We will not give you our ships, but we will aid your cause by ferrying all those who wish across the sea."
*Feanor*: "Sounds good. Thanks!"

So, there's no need for a Kinslaying event. Then, Fingolfin (and Finarfin?) along with their hosts are transported to Middle-earth. Sounds to me like maybe Feanor might have lasted longer and been in a much stronger position in his pursuit of the Silmarils. (Though, knowing Feanor, he'd probably have found another way to screw it up.) Also, the final outcome probably would not have changed since even Feanor backed by the houses of Finarfin and Fingolfin would not have been strong enough to utterly defeat Morgoth.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 5, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> Interesting alternative storyline.
> 
> *Feanor*: "Hey, you Teleri guys, give us your ships so we can go to Middle-earth."
> *Teleri:* "We will not give you our ships, but we will aid your cause by ferrying all those who wish across the sea."
> ...


You're assuming Fëanor has anything resembling intelligence.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 7, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> You're assuming Fëanor has anything resembling intelligence.


He sadly did not. How greatly did I grieve for his fate.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 7, 2022)

Nienna Qalme-Tári said:


> He sadly did not. How greatly did I grieve for his fate.


It really is too bad. He was very talented. But he seems to have been possessed of pride and selfishness from nearly the start.


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## Radaghast (Oct 9, 2022)

BalrogRingDestroyer said:


> One of the things that really turned the Valar against them was the first kinslaying over the boats. But what if the Teleri or whatever they're called had simply agreed to give them some boats to get the Simarils back?


The Teleri felt that would be against the will of the Valar. Olwë, the Teleri ruler, also considered the Teleri's ships to be their equivalent of Fëanor's silmarils (TS, Chapter 9, "The Flight of the Noldor").


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 9, 2022)

Radaghast said:


> The Teleri felt that would be against the will of the Valar. Olwë, the Teleri ruler, also considered the Teleri's ships to be their equivalent of Fëanor's silmarils (TS, Chapter 9, "The Flight of the Noldor").


Yeah, I don't see them doing it but Fëanor is so self-centered he couldn't comprehend anyone could love something as much as he loved things. He lacks any king of empathy.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 9, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> Yeah, I don't see them doing it but Fëanor is so self-centered he couldn't comprehend anyone could love something as much as he loved things. He lacks any king of empathy.


Exactly...Féanor's main hamartia was his excessive hubris and his ultimate lack of empathy.


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