# Is it just me, or dose the Valar dispise Men?



## Thalion (Feb 6, 2011)

I have noticed that in re-reading the silmarillion, a cirtan number of the valar do not plan for the coming of men, they do no go in serch of man as they did with the firstborn. 
I belive that they dispised men (with the excpetion of ulmo). They were willing to let the elvs coming to Aman and live amoung the powers because they would not die and taint there "undying lands", yet they would not permit the younger children to live among them. in doing this, they would alow Melkor to defeat and corupt men. If it were not for the coming of the Noldor and the friendship with the edain they created......i think men would have utterly fallen into darkness.

"You name yourself a king of men?, one does not rule he leads!"


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## camlost (Feb 6, 2011)

I've only read Silmarillion once (I'm new to the larger Tolkien universe), but I plan on re-reading it soon. Anyway, I seem to recall that the reason the Valar did not seek Men out as with the Elves was because they felt that they had erred in their treatment of the Elves, i.e. enticing them to come to Aman.

Also, I don't think they despised men. For example: the person who finally succeeded in securing their aid against Morgoth was Half-Elven; they gave the Edain Numenor in recognition of their valor; in the Third Age they sent emissaries (the Istar) to aid men in their fight against Sauron.


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## Prince of Cats (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm not coming from the text here but like camlost I believe the Valar were very wary toward becoming involved with the coming of men the way they did with the elves. Few things could have gone more wrong in that endeavor. Like parents of a rebellious over-coddled child they likely care very much for the fate and health of men but are fearful of themselves to bring Melkor to men and also still resentful of the elves and themselves from the coming of the first children.


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## Mimzy (Feb 6, 2011)

I think they cared for them, they just didn't feel it was their place to do much with them. Except for Ulmo, he loved men.


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## Thalion (Feb 6, 2011)

Maby dispise was the wrong word. i know that they rewarded men for there good deeds in later times (e.g raiseing of Numenor) but when they awoke no1 sought them out, no1 looked to help them and no1 tried to steer them away from the evil that Melkor emmited. This may be because they were busy with the elvs, but it just bugs me that no1 except the dark vala (morgoth) sought after them.


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## Alcuin (Feb 6, 2011)

I think I remember reading that the Valar eventually came to the opinion that removing the Eldar from Middle-earth to Valinor, at least as soon as they did, was not the best course of action. Whether that was Tolkien’s “last” opinion on the matter is unclear, nor do I recall in which text I saw it, nor can I remember its context: so it’s a shaky citation; but it’s one that’s been with me for many years.

The Valar were aware also that Men would be physically far weaker than Elves, and less resilient to any attempt on their part to dislodge Morgoth from his fastnesses in Middle-earth, so they let him be, lest they destroy the Second Kindred in the tumult of capturing him again. (Beleriand was destroyed and sank beneath the sea in the fifty year-long War of Wrath.) 

_Welcome to TTF, *Thalion*._


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## Maiden_of Harad (Jul 28, 2013)

Mimzy said:


> I think they cared for them, they just didn't feel it was their place to do much with them. Except for Ulmo, he loved men.



And because of that I like Ulmo the best out of all the Valar .

I knew that I couldn't have been the only one irked by how the Valar treated men, but I think that the above quote is the perfect explination for why they were 'indifferent' to men.


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## Sulimo (Nov 25, 2013)

I think it also deals with the fates of men compared to the fates of Elves. From creation, and the music of the Ainur, Illuvatar separated the fates of the Eldar and men. The fates of men were not revealed to the Valar. However, they knew that Illuvatar was at work with them, and he had plans for them. They intervened with the Eldar because they knew that their fates were intertwined, and ultimately all Elves will be in either Mandos or Valinor. Men's fate is completely separate, and it appears that their souls actually leave Arda, and join Illuvatar. That is part of why I think that the Valar did not intervene or interact much with man.


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