# Who is the character who caused the most damage to elves and humans in the wars of beleriand and killed the most elves and humans?



## Turin_Turambar (Oct 19, 2022)

I think it would be a good topic if it hasn't been asked before. Who do you think is the character who caused the most damage to elves and humans and killed the most elves and humans during the wars of beleriand? I guess I'll call it glaurung. Because it was a devastating and unstoppable force in the Dagor Bragollach and Nirnaeth Arnoediad. The elves couldn't even come close to it in battles. Moreover, it was a character who destroyed it Nargothrond.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Oct 19, 2022)

I agree. Glaurung was a main physical force that hindered much of the Eldarin host.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 19, 2022)

Sauron was mostly located in Minas Tirith and we don't hear from him much beyond that. So my answer is Glaurung.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 19, 2022)

Shouldn't Morgoth be an option?


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## Turin_Turambar (Oct 19, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Shouldn't Morgoth be an option?


If you've read The Silmarillion you'll already know. Morgoth never comes out of Angband and fights. He only came out when Fingolfin challenged him. Morgoth never took part in battles individually.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 19, 2022)

Turin_Turambar said:


> If you've read The Silmarillion you'll already know. Morgoth never comes out of Angband and fights. He only came out when Fingolfin challenged him. Morgoth never took part in battles individually.


I have read, several times. Regardless of whether he was right in the battle or not, without him, none of those in the poll would have even existed, other than Sauron. And he probably wouldn't have been the guy he was on his own.


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## Turin_Turambar (Oct 19, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I have read, several times. Regardless of whether he was right in the battle or not, without him, none of those in the poll would have even existed, other than Sauron. And he probably wouldn't have been the guy he was on his own.


I think this is a separate issue. Because I meant the character that does the most damage individually, without using the intermediary.


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## Ent (Oct 19, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Shouldn't Morgoth be an option?



The 'word nerd' has to weigh in on this one. 

As has been pointed out by the perceptive @Erestor Arcamen, we have a problem with the question asked.

As is often the case with our 'English language', we aren't cautious with and/or don't understand the words we use, what they mean, and so what we are actually saying. 

Who is the CAUSE of the most damage (and death)? Morgoth. 
Who physically and personally KILLED the most? Glaurung. 

The Thread question asks for two different specifics the way it's phrased. Since words have power, once they go forth there is no 'going back'.

Glaurung did not 'cause' more death than Morgoth. Nor did Morgoth "kill" more than Glaurung.


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## Ent (Oct 19, 2022)

Turin_Turambar said:


> I meant the character that does the most damage individually, without using the intermediary.


Understood I'm sure, sir Turin Turambar: but such a desire cannot employ the word 'caused'. Because 'caused' is much more than 'killed' or 'physically harmed'. 

Of course... the real 'debater' would say "well, since Eru created Melkor, who later was named Morgoth by the Valar (or Elves?)**, the 'cause' is really Eru".

But I'm certain we don't really need to 'go there'. It opens a whole different can of worms. 

**Edit: one handy source suggests Fëanor gave him the name Morgoth. Given when he iscovered the theft of the Silmarils and the murder of Finwë.


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 19, 2022)

If we're talking about sheer kill count done by an individual, it really would be tough to beat a dragon who can decimate combatants by the dozens with a single strike. This one would have to go to Glaurung, although Ancalagon would have beaten him by miles had Morgoth unleashed him sooner.


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## Ent (Oct 19, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> although Ancalagon


Indeed dragons were a nasty bunch. If we move to a later time, Smaug did away with almost the entire Dwarven community under the Lonely Mountain. (and destroyed Lake Town along with many of its people,) I wonder how that death count would have stacked up.

Ah, speculations, speculations. Aren't they a wonderful thing?
I wonder someone doesn't write a FanFic about Smaug the Chiefest of Calamities.


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 19, 2022)

I remember seeing a particular artwork depicting the sheer size of Ancalagon and to this day, I still can't quite picture how on earth half-mortal Eärendil managed to kill that monster on a sailing ship, even with the help of the Eagles. 

It must have been one blessed (or heavily armored??) ship and a LOT of Eagles.


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