# Oliver Stones Alexander



## Ol'gaffer (Nov 28, 2004)

I just saw this amazing film last night and felt that I had to tell someone, everyone about it.

Oliver Stone has been one of my favorite directors for a long time now. His movies have always captivated and inspired me, movies such as Platoon, JFK and Any Given Sunday are among the best I've seen. Now I can easily say that Alexander is among them as well.

I went to see the movie with no expectations, I was afraid that Stone had fallen into the Hollywood machine, how wrong I was.

The movie of Alexander the Great is not only an epic, but it's a very humane story. Very intimate in the portreyal on the human side of Alexander, the bitternes of his mother Olympia (An amazing performance by Angelina Jolie) the hatred of his father (Val Kilmer) and the love for his childhood friend Hefaistos (Jared Leto). 

The movie, while nearly three hours long, did not feel overlong or overblown to me in any way. Stone managed to keep me hooked on every moment of Alexanders life until the final moments in Babylon. 

There has been plenty of criticism towards the sexuality in the movie, concern over Alexanders own sexuality. Let me be the first to say that it's only the narrowmindness of America talking there. The movie has it's share of homosexuality, but it's very emotional and very beautiful. It's a love between two men that runs deeper than just the surface. I guess that I view the movie differently as an European, here homosexuality is not an issue like it is in America. But I must say, do not miss this movie because of the slandering remarks that it's filled with overblown homosexuality, because it is not.

The movie will not be a success in my opinion, it's clearly marketed the wrong way. The adverts that I've seen market it as another Troy or Gladiator, a movie that this is not. There are war scenes, but only two in the entire film. The movie is not a popcorn entertainment action flick, it's a emotional, mature drama about a man who never found a place to call home, but while searching for one, he found the world. 

I for one will see this movie again in the theatres and will certainly buy the dvd when it comes out, and I encourage everyone to give this a chance and see the masterpiece that is Alexander.

*****


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 28, 2004)

I read that the movie received many bad critiques, not least of all because of the (shocking?) issue of bisexuality that it deals with. But I'm definitely looking forward to seeing it for myself, frell those da-yaaamn critics (Gaffer excluded).


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## Astaldo (Nov 28, 2004)

I guess I have to ait until 3/12 when the movie is coming on Greece to see it and comment.


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## soltan gris (Nov 28, 2004)

This is really a great movie! But it's not for every taste - the common audience will be dissapointed because of the lack of action, and like Ol'gaffer said, the accent on Alexander's sexual orientation. 

But there are many more things to see in this movie apart of these issues. The whole atmosphere of the movie is unbelievably realistic and, well, 'alive'!
You see the epic skales of ancient battles from the point of vue of a flying eagle - it was splendid! Yeah, there were only two battles in the movie, but they were so GENUINE, filled with all the horror, energy and madness of war; one can really feel how the turmoil of the fight blows away every previously made plans ant strategic ideas - to the point that the battle is won by the general who manages to use a single weakness in his enemy's defence and turn the tide in his favor. Chaos incarnated!!!!
The key scenes in the movie are masterfully represented. I'll never forget the moment of Philip's assassination - everyone is confused, Alexander weeps and looks like a little and helpless boy; in this moment one of the generals puts the crown on Alexander's head and announces him the new king of Macedon, but he is still weeping and doesn't look like king at all; in this moment the camera captures the only person who seems to know what's happening - Alexander's mother is smiling like an evil godess!
THe characters in the movie are beautiful (and I don't mean physical beauty!) - every single one of them is unique and alive, CONVINCING!!
Of corse, I have objections as well. I think the whole story was stretched too long. The movie could have been well below 2h 1/2 in my opinion, and still remain convincing and well developed. There were some pointless scenes, and (risking the wrath of Ol'gaffer) most of them are the homosexual scenes  
I think Alexander's character just didn't need so hard an accent on his sexuality - his other traits are complex enough. His pride, his hunger for conquest (mirroring his secret need to make his father proud and to meet the incrediably high expectations of his mother),finally his attemts to understand the cultures of the people he conquered and to incorporate them in a single and powerful empire - an attempt which meets the cold reaction of almost all of his friends and commanders..... Alexander turns out to be a really unfortunate man even without his bisexuality 
Nevertheless, this movie will be one of my favorites in the future. 5/6 stars


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 28, 2004)

Thanks for that review, soltan.

Quick question though - why do you consider his bisexuality 'unfortunate'?


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## Elemmire (Nov 29, 2004)

Ugh... I'm too much of a purist. Most of my problems with the movie stemmed from historic inaccuracies (Alexander's is one of my favourite "_real"_ stories). A lot of it, however, was well researched and represented. I had no real issue with the bisexuality, neither in an artistic nor an historic sense.

I sometimes had the feeling though, that it would have been better had different aspects of his life been included. The Gordion's Knot could have been very interesting, and I would have liked to see what happened in Egypt.

Did anyone else get the sense that it would have been somewhat hard to follow if you weren't familiar with the story, or am I looking at it too deeply?


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## Thorin (Nov 30, 2004)

I thought it was okay. My wife and brother didn't care for it all (Apparently the homosexuality issue bothered them). I felt as Gaffer did that it was mostly an emotional bond between he and his friend. Despite my feelings on homosexuality, I didn't think it took away from the film, nor do I think that it deserves any of the controversy that it has apparently stirred up. Actually the heterosexual scene was much more pointless and graphic in the movie than anything that was portrayed as homosexual.

The battle scenes were epic and filmed to be very confusing. It did capture the chaos of battle quite well. The battle with the Indian elephants was quite chaotic. Can you imagine being those soldiers, most of which probably never even heard of an elephant, and seeing those behemoths crashing out of the trees at you? 

I didn't feel that the acting was fantastic. The supporting actors were really the best ones while the Hollywood hype actors were mediocre. I kind of felt that Angelina Jolie was over blowing her character a bit and that she didn't really fit the part. Worse still was Val Kilmer (normally a fantastic and underrated actor - see Tombstone). Not that he necessarily portrayed his character badly, just that the character was more of a useless nuisance with no real substance or any place to go.


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## Eledhwen (Nov 30, 2004)

Anyone read Tom Holt's book 'Alexander'? It's a bit irreverent (ok, it's a lot irreverent).


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## Elemmire (Nov 30, 2004)

Thorin said:


> Actually the heterosexual scene was much more pointless and graphic in the movie than anything that was portrayed as homosexual.


ditto.



> I kind of felt that Angelina Jolie was over blowing her character a bit and that she didn't really fit the part. Worse still was Val Kilmer (normally a fantastic and underrated actor - see Tombstone). Not that he necessarily portrayed his character badly, just that the character was more of a useless nuisance with no real substance or any place to go.


Well, Olympias was supposedly like that. Mothers in the ancient world could be... dangerous. But yeah, parts were possibly a bit overdone.

Ditto on the Val Kilmer, though.


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## soltan gris (Nov 30, 2004)

I didnt' say that Alexander was unfortunate BECAUSE of his bisexuality! At least, not ONLY because of that. He was just torn away between his mother's expectations and counsils, his own pride and dreams, and the expectations of his people. The bisexuality, I think, just added to the mix.

And, yes, women could act like this - remember all stories about the French and Itallian noble fammilies during the middle ages. ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 
The ambition of the man is erratic and quickly shifts to other fields; the ambition of the woman is focused to a degree taht high that it can overthrow empires!


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## e.Blackstar (Nov 30, 2004)

I want to see that but its R and my dad would never let me anyway. Fie...


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## Inderjit S (Dec 4, 2004)

Alexander was gay! Whatever next?! Revelations of Caeser's bisexuality, Caligula's incest general sexual depravity and homoeroticism in the Arabian Nights? Why the 'shock' about Alexander's bisexuality? Homosexuality is by no means a modern thing that started on a warm summers day with with Oscar Wilde.


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## Astaldo (Dec 6, 2004)

Hello guys I saw yesterday the movie and didn't like so much. Not about the homosexuality or the history facts but I found it a little bit boring. 3 ours movie with only two battles while Alexander fought many more?


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## Eledhwen (Dec 6, 2004)

It's difficult to prove 'gay' in an age where sensual pleasure didn't have so many no-nos; that is to say, just because men pleasured men, they weren't necessarily homosexual. You would need other evidence, like an absence of female partners, offspring, and testimonies.


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## DGoeij (Dec 6, 2004)

Well, if you go into sexual action wiht someone of the same sex, that does count as homosexual doesn't it? I haven't seen the movie, but I couldn't care less about supposedly sexual activitiy of lead characters, same sex partners or not. I would have been mildly surprised if a young and active man in those days would completely refrain form any of it.  

I'm still wondering if I should go and see this movie in cinema. My girlfriend and I both bought a 5-movie pass just before summer and since the Incredibles, we've got one go left. (Hope that made sense) 

I know it's not your average action movie. Considering the director being mr. Stone, I was hoping it wouldn't be. Critics mean something to me, but not everything. If it was hyped as the next 'gladiator', no wonder it wouldn't be recieved very well.


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## Astaldo (Dec 6, 2004)

In the age of Alexander the women were in a "rank" below men. Men didn't care about them. They wanted them only for having children. The believed that men are suprior of women and did not wanted them for company.


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## Niniel (Dec 7, 2004)

Well, that was so in many cases, but in some cases there could be real love involved in a relationship. And royal women could have a lot of influence on their ruling husbands or sons (and some even ruled by themselves). But since there wasn't much emotion involved in many heterosexual relationships, men sought it in relationships with other men. In ancient Athens it was totally normal for a man to have a sexual relationship with a younger man (aged 12-20 years or so), and for boys in this age it was considered a normal part of their education to have sex with an older man. So bisexuality was normal in ancient societies; however it was expected that the relationship would end when the younger partner was over 20; then he was supposed to marry and have sex with his wife. Relationships which lasted into the boy's maturity were odd (but not unheard of, e.g. Achilles and Patroklos).
But anyway, Alexander won't come out here until the 23rd of December  But I'll surely go see it!


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## Astaldo (Dec 7, 2004)

Do you know Sparta? The Spartiats were the strongest and toughest men in ancient Greece. This bisexuality thing was also there, but afetr an age as Ninie said it stopped. Anyway I cannot find why we are discussing if Alexander was homosexual or not. The point is that he is one of the greatest men ever existed. And as it said in movie: "His failure was greater than everybody else's success" (or something like this)


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