# Old Kingdom on edge of Old Forest??



## hobbit_hole (Dec 31, 2005)

Okay, I was rereading last night and saw something that got me wondering: 

from The Fellowship of the Ring (Chapter 8: Fog on the Barrow-Downs):

_...The dark line they had seen was not a line of trees but a line of bushes growing on the edge of a deep dike with a steep wall on the further side. Tom said that it had once been the boundary of a kingdom, but a very long ago. He seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much._

What kingdom was this and what about it made Bombadil sad?

Any insight would be helpful! Thanks!


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## Valandil (Dec 31, 2005)

The kingdom was called Cardolan, and to its north was the kingdom of Arthedain, which was formerly ruled by Aragorn's ancestors.

Going further back though, a bit more than 3000 years before the story setting in "Lord of the Rings" - Aragorn's ancient ancestor, Elendil, established the kingdom of Arnor. Arnor included all of Arthedain and Cardolan, as well as a more easterly kingdom called Rhudaur. Basically, most of Eriador - if you look on the maps.

About 2000 years before the story, when one of Arnor's kings died, his sons divided the kingdom into three parts, instead of a single king maintaining rulership over the whole thing. Eventually, the three kingdoms began to quarrel with one another - and before long, the Witch King set up an evil kingdom north of Rhudaur and began to topple the three kingdoms, one by one, first Rhudaur, then Cardolan, then Arthedain.

When Arthedain was finally destroyed, about 1000 years before the story, the descendants of their kings went into secret, more or less - and were largely dependant on Elrond of Rivendell. Some generations later, Aragorn was born into that line.

The basic outline of that history is mostly given in the first several pages of Appendix A - at the back of "Return of the King". There's more information in some other places - including sections in "The Silmarillion", "Unfinished Tales" and "Peoples of Middle Earth" - but you get all the basics right there in Appendix A (along with the story of how Aragorn met and fell in love with Arwen). Pertinent dates are in Appendix B.

Hope you'll read it and enjoy it! 

*PS:* When Bombadil gives the Hobbits a vision of:



> ...a great expanse of years behind them, like a vast shadowy plain over which there strode shapes of Men, tall and grim with bright swords, and last came one with a star on his brow.



- I take that as most likely the line of kings going back to Elendil. Either that, or the arrival of the refugees of Numenor coming on their way to establish Arnor, with Elendil bringing up the rear. But I don't see him bringing up the rear, so I think it's most likely the line of kings.


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## hobbit_hole (Jan 3, 2006)

Thank you so much! That's really helpful! It's overwhelming, trying to find answers to such small and specific questions, so thanks again!


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## Valandil (Jan 3, 2006)

You're welcome - and no need to feel embarrassed. I didn't even think about looking at the appendices until about my 4th time through LOTR - which was maybe 15 -16 years after my first. Once I began to read them, I really started to get a sense of the depth of background in Tolkien's Middle Earth. And... I just got really drawn into that ancient backstory.  (and yes - it can be very overwhelming - at first especially)

So - once you finish this time, try to go on into the appendices. At least Appendix A - that's very readable. B is good for scanning through to see how the dates lay out, C if you're interested in family trees. D is really cool - if you have the patience for understanding calendars of different sorts. I know less about E and F than the others, but even those have nice tidbits of information.

I suggest at least Appendix A after this reading. If you read it, I don't think you'll regret it.


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