# Fingolfin skill in battle



## baraka (Feb 4, 2002)

I have read all sort of posts that Fingolfin is the mightiest elf in the skills of battle. Is there a passage in the Sil. where it´s said or is it the general feeling because of him challeging Morgoth to one on one combat. (A great battle I might said)


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *I have read all sort of posts that Fingolfin is the mightiest elf in the skills of battle. Is there a passage in the Sil. where it´s said or is it the general feeling because of him challeging Morgoth to one on one combat. (A great battle I might said) *




Also it says in the sil that Fingolfin was given the skill of battle. IMO the sons of Finwe are the greatest elves ever. But the most powerful in battle was Fingolfin.


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## baraka (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: Fingolfin skill in battle*



> _Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow _
> *
> 
> 
> Also it says in the sil that Fingolfin was given the skill of battle. IMO the sons of Finwe are the greatest elves ever. But the most powerful in battle was Fingolfin. *



Could you be a little more specific please. In what Chapter?


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## BelDain (Feb 5, 2002)

"Feanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wisest of heart..."

- from Of Eldamar in The Silmarillion


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## baraka (Feb 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BelDain _
> *"Feanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wisest of heart..."
> 
> - from Of Eldamar in The Silmarillion *



The strongest and the most valiant means that he was better with a weapon that his brother? I don´t think so!


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## Lorien (Feb 6, 2002)

yeah fingolfin was better than feanor in fighting...


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## baraka (Feb 6, 2002)

*Agree*



> _Originally posted by Lorien _
> *yeah fingolfin was better than feanor in fighting... *



I will agree with you Lorien, but i have been looking in the sil. for a passage that states that Fingolfin was better in the skill of Arms than any other elf, and i haven´t found it. That´s the purpouse of this thread.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 6, 2002)

You just have to look at his deeds to see he is the greatest elf. I'm sorry but i haven't got my book with me so i can't help about the passage.


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## Tyaronumen (Feb 7, 2002)

Yes -- his deeds speak for him. He permanently crippled Morgoth. Feanor doesn't appear to have done such anything equivalent -- even with the lesser creatures of the Balrogs.


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## baraka (Feb 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Tyaronumen _
> *Yes -- his deeds speak for him. He permanently crippled Morgoth. Feanor doesn't appear to have done such anything equivalent -- even with the lesser creatures of the Balrogs. *



Feanor fougth with various Balrogs at one time. I he would have battled Morgoth one on one, he definitely would have crippled him and he wouldn't have tired as quickly as his brother because of his inner fire and his hatred toward Morgoth.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *
> 
> Feanor fougth with various Balrogs at one time. I he would have battled Morgoth one on one, he definitely would have crippled him and he wouldn't have tired as quickly as his brother because of his inner fire and his hatred toward Morgoth. *





That could be correct but he could have also rushed in with his hate trying to mar him quickly which could prove fatal. But would have he been able 2 use all his skill since he would be blinded in hate. I think that feanor and morgoth's body would have been killed. Feanor wouldn't have died untill he got 2 morgoth!!


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## baraka (Feb 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



Could you clarify this!


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## Grond (Feb 19, 2002)

Feanor never had te inner power to get to the entrance of Melkor's stronghold and challenge him. When Fingolfin approached Angband, Melkor's vassal's fled before his wrath. No one would come forth to challenge Fingolfin in his anger, yet Balrogs destroyed the worldly body of Feanor. Fingolfin was the greatest in skill of arms, he was the most *regal* of all the Eldar. He alone faced Morgoth in hand to hand combat and he wounded Morgoth numerous times. Anyone who says that Feanor would have done this or could have done that has missed the boat. Feanor didn't do anything but kill and betray his own people. He slaughtered his own kin to take the ships and then abandoned his brother. Oh yes, he was a true friend and companion. 

I wrote this on another thread about the same topic. It gives you my first hand account of that day. Everyone should remember that I was there and I was a witness to what happened.

_Originally posted by Grond on another similar thread_
*Let me tell you Thorin! Fingolfin was absolutely the most awesome elf/king/warrior/bad-ass that this hammer has ever seen. Riding up and pounding on the door of Angband itself, screaming for my boss to come out. Man, was Mel scared that day. He realized that Fin had already come the whole way kickin' butt... no one could stop him. He was hiding under his throne, when he realized everyone was watching him. He pretended he was looking for a penny that he dropped and kind of said "Well, I guess I'll have to go deal with this little interuption." Let me tell you though, he was nearly wettin' his britches. 

Then my master crept up from his pit, where Fingolfin berated him with craven words. Fingolfin's hair billowed in the wind, his sword Ringil glittered as it was drawn, and his blue shield sparkled in the sun. My master struck at him, but he jumped aside... I gouged a huge pit in the earth. Again and again and again, I was wielded and smote into empty earth and each time Fingolfin countered my master's stroke with a wounding strike. Seven times did Melkor strike and miss and seven times Fingolfin countered with a strike that brought black blood from my master. 

At the last, Fingolfin tired and Melkor bore down upon him. My master trapped Fingolfin under his mighty foot and began to crush him. With his last dying strength, Fingolfin hewed at my master and smote him on the foot with Ringil. A gaping wound from which Melkor never recovered. He was wont to limp on that leg ever after. A daily reminder of the truest and greatest elf lord of all ages of Middle Earth. 

At least that's how I see it... and I was there!*


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## Orome (Feb 19, 2002)

Hey Grond,

Your clarification about what happened that day is not only enlightening but also hysterical. I thought it brilliant first time I saw it on the other string about who was the mightiest elf. It's also about the way I envisioned it. Hey, where were those balrogs that beat up on Feanor then? What do you say when all other of your master's servants are conspicously missing because they have fled to the hills? I forgot, they were also looking for things they had lost just like your boss - maybe like their courage. And who does the floors at Angband when everyone there wees in their pants anyhow? 

Oh, that Fingolfin could have hunted with me when I was out and about! *sigh* Alas, that never happened. My puppy would have loved him.


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## baraka (Feb 20, 2002)

*Fingolfin*



> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *Feanor never had the inner power to get to the entrance of Melkor's stronghold and challenge him. When Fingolfin approached Angband, Melkor's vassal's fled before his wrath. No one would come forth to challenge Fingolfin in his anger, yet Balrogs destroyed the worldly body of Feanor. Fingolfin was the greatest in skill of arms, he was the most regal of all the Eldar. He alone faced Morgoth in hand to hand combat and he wounded Morgoth numerous times. Anyone who says that Feanor would have done this or could have done that has missed the boat. Feanor didn't do anything but kill and betray his own people. He slaughtered his own kin to take the ships and then abandoned his brother. Oh yes, he was a true friend and companion.
> 
> I wrote this on another thread about the same topic. It gives you my first hand account of that day. Everyone should remember that I was there and I was a witness to what happened.
> ...



Having re-read that part in the Sil. i have to agree.  
The point that I was trying to make was that if Feanor have battled Morgoth, how badly could he have injured him. Mere speculation, because it not happen, but i would like opinions.

What did you do after your master was taken by Eonwe?

I still think that Feanor was the coolest elf ever!


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: Fingolfin*



> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *
> 
> Having re-read that part in the Sil. i have to agree.
> ...





Elves
1 Ani
2 Beleg
3 Feanor
4 Fingolfin
5 Luthein
6 Galadriel
7 Cirdan
8 Turgon
9 Finwe
10 Finrod

Men

1 Turin
2 Beren
3 Hurin
4 Tuor
5 Earendil
6 Hador
7 Elros
8 Hour
9 Elendil
10 Aragorn

My favourites

10


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## baraka (Mar 5, 2002)

*What does it mean!*



> So great was the onslaught of Morgoth that Fingolfin and Fingon could not come to the aid of the sons of Finarfin; and the hosts of Hithlum were driven back with great loss to the fortresses of Ered Wethrin, and these they hardly defended against the Orcs.





> Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.





> Thus died Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, most proud and valiant of the Elven-kings of old.


So, does it means that Fingolfin had to be "filled with wrath and despair" to battle like that. Could he have not done that otherwise (in other battles), or was it the final inner strenght of one so noble walking to his own death!


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## Grond (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: What does it mean!*



> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *
> So, does it means that Fingolfin had to be "filled with wrath and despair" to battle like that. Could he have not done that otherwise (in other battles), or was it the final inner strenght of one so noble walking to his own death! *


Yes. It took the utter ruin of the Noldor in battle to provoke such actions from Fingolfin. Feanor's spirit was so great that upon his death his mortal body was rendered to ashes. Fingolfin's spirit was so great that it enabled him to challenge the might of Morgoth directly and bring fear into the very Halls of Evil. 

Feanor's spirit burned at death. Fingolfin's spirit burned in battle.


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## Camille (Mar 5, 2002)

> Feanor's spirit burned at death. Fingolfin's spirit burned in battle.



Yes I like Fingolfin decisions!!!!


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## baraka (Mar 5, 2002)

> . Then he died; but he had neither burial nor tomb, for so fiery was his spirit that as it sped his body fell to ash, and was borne away like smoke; and his likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the halls of Mandos. Thus ended the mightiest of the Noldor, of whose deeds came both their greatest renown and their most grievous woe.







> Feanor's spirit burned at death. Fingolfin's spirit burned in battle


I cede, my warriors are yours, kill me! Kidding. 

No I agree, but i still think that Fëanor "had battled Morgoth" would have wounded him greatly!


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## Grond (Mar 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *I cede, my warriors are yours, kill me! Kidding.
> 
> No I agree, but i still think that Fëanor "had battled Morgoth" would have wounded him greatly! *


The difference we have is that Fingolfin *actually did it.* And saying that Feanor would have done this or that or that Feanor could have done this or that, is simply *speculation.* Fingolfin's feats were a 'real' part of the Silmarillion.


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## baraka (Mar 5, 2002)

> And saying that Feanor would have done this or that or that Feanor could have done this or that, is simply speculation. Fingolfin's feats were a 'real' part of the Silmarillion.


Ok, I agree. But i that it is a "reasonable" speculation and not out of character from someone like Fëanor.


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## Grond (Mar 5, 2002)

I agree baraka, the Silmarillion makes it very clear that Feanor was very good at killing people... and especially his own people.


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## baraka (Mar 5, 2002)

> Feanor was very good at killing people... and especially his own people.


Hmmm., Grond, I know you are Fëanor´s biggest fan but, 


> i still think that Fëanor "had battled Morgoth" would have wounded him greatly!


  
The Teleri were of his own kin but they were not Noldor. I don´t think he would have killed another Noldor directly.


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## Grond (Mar 5, 2002)

And, baraka, the fact that they were only brethren and not kin, justifies their senseless slaying? That is the one act of Feanor that I can never forgive.


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## baraka (Mar 5, 2002)

> the fact that they were only brethren and not kin, justifies their senseless slaying? That is the one act of Feanor that I can never forgive.


Nothing justifies the slaying of the Teleri. 
I just don´t know why the Teleri could not "lend them" safe passage to ME. 

My point is:


> i still think that Fëanor "had battled Morgoth" would have wounded him greatly!


Grond, do you agree with that statement!


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## Grond (Mar 5, 2002)

No baraka, I feel if Feanor had faced Morgoth in battle that instead of evading Grond (me!) he would have chosen to show Morgoth how bold and defiant he was by taking the first blow. I would have rendered him to Elf squish at the first blow and that would have been that.


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## baraka (Mar 5, 2002)

> I feel if Feanor had faced Morgoth in battle that instead of evading Grond (me!) he would have chosen to show Morgoth how bold and defiant he was by taking the first blow


I believe that Fëanor would definitely have evaded you various times and wounded your master greatly for killing Finwë.  


> ; for his father was dearer to him than the Light of Valinor or the peerless works of his hands; and who among sons, of Elves or of Men, have held their fathers of greater worth?


He loved his father more than Fingolfin and Finwë always loved Fëanor the most.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *
> He loved his father more than Fingolfin and Finwë always loved Fëanor the most. *




It is hard to say since tolkie never wrote about it but i think that feanor if he got a hit on morgoth would have died as well. He would strike and hit and melkor would finish. But feanor was the mightiest elf ever and he could do anything who knows??


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## baraka (Mar 6, 2002)

> But feanor was the mightiest elf ever and he could do anything who knows??


I agree with that!


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## Maedhros (Mar 20, 2002)

Although i acknowledge my uncle's Fingolfin skill, the person to whom i most admire is my friend Fingon. He saved me for my torment in Thangorodrim.
To me, that was the greatest deed of a Noldor, because it involved courage and was made as a gesture of unification of the Noldor in exile. 
Thank you, my friend.


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