# How did the orcs reproduce?



## Wonko The Sane (Oct 28, 2002)

Alright...this may seem like a silly question...
But first of all...the orcs were said to be a cross between something and elves right?
So how did they manage that...
And second of all the movie shows the Uruk'hai being bread from the mud...
What is that some kind of a-sexual pod reproduction or something?
Does that have any basis with the books?
And third of all...how do the existing orcs spawn other orcs...because let's face it...orcs are pretty ugly...what with the teeth...and the face...and the hair...and I swear one of those orcs in the movie had some kind of staples suck in his forehead...
So what gives?
HOW DO THEY DO IT?!
And where are the female orcs?

BTW- I posed this question to my brother (wonko) the other day and I said, "How do they do it! Look at them...they're teeth are...*shudder*" and he said, "I dunno, Emilie...you should know. Don't you have a thing for British guys? THEY'RE teeth are...*shudder*" I hit him...but I thought it was too funny to NOT say.


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## Celebthôl (Oct 28, 2002)

I must lodge a sign of protest im a british guy and i have perfect teeth (not to give myself a big head), not like any orc, Grrr to u'r bro.
I believe the Orcs did it the same way as everyone else (they are mutilated elves after all (although it is not clear wether Mr Tolkien intended this)) but wots that old saying...! 
"You never look at the mantlepiece when u'r poking the fire"!

Celeb


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## Princess Vi (Oct 28, 2002)

I've never heard that saying before, I don't wanna think about reproducing Orcs***SHUDDER***, and I like British guys too


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## Wonko The Sane (Oct 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *I must lodge a sign of protest im a british guy and i have perfect teeth (not to give myself a big head), not like any orc, Grrr to u'r bro.
> I believe the Orcs did it the same way as everyone else (they are mutilated elves after all (although it is not clear wether Mr Tolkien intended this)) but wots that old saying...!
> "You never look at the mantlepiece when u'r poking the fire"!
> ...



Yeah...see...I stuck up for you sexy British guys! I hit him didn't I!!! My brother's just being a jerk.

But that doesn't answer my other questions...
Namely: Who would find an orc attractive?
And did the Uruk'hai really come up from the muck?

And this whole "mutiliated" elves thing doesn't fly with me...they'd have to have been mated with some kind of OTHER race because you can't pass on mutilations to your offspring! It's genetically impossible...
If it were say...a genetic abnormality that they were born short with horrible teeth and extensive scarring then THAT can be passed on...
But anything you do to change their physical appearance (and not genetics) can't be passed on...


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## Princess Vi (Oct 28, 2002)

oh this is so disgusting to think about! ***SHUDDERS*** but what I think happened was Melkor or Sauron or someone made them in mockery of the Elves, but I don't wanna know how!


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## Wonko The Sane (Oct 28, 2002)

Well if they were just mutiliated...then they'd have to be constantly capturing elves and mutilating them every time they wanted to make anew army...because like I said...you can't pass mutiliations down to your offspring...even if they DID find someone who'd um...be attracted to an orc.
Which I KNOW didn't happen...because they didn't capture elves all the time...
So they must've found a way to breed them...
They could've created them...but...yeah.
See how confusing this gets?


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## Celebthôl (Oct 28, 2002)

Yeah and also if they were elves how comes their rubbish fighters? + they repopulate faster than n e other being in ME


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## Wonko The Sane (Oct 28, 2002)

Exactly! Rubbish fighters indeed.  Hehe...cute. I 
And you're right...they breed like rabbits...and there are SOO many!!
HOW DO THEY DO IT!!
WHAT ARE THEY REALLY?!?!


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## Celebthôl (Oct 28, 2002)

demons in the sack if they do it that much lol nuthin else goin for them lol!


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## Princess Vi (Oct 28, 2002)

they're weird hobbits!  sorry just had to say that! lol


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## Grond (Oct 28, 2002)

The Orcs reproduced the old fashioned way. That is, at the least, very clear in all of Tolkien's writings. The published Silmarillion proper hints that they were first made from corrupted Quendi in their early history. The Book of Lost Tales Parts 1 and 2 have them in their beginning, much like the Balrogs, or Maiar origin. In his later writings from HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring he became dissatisfied with the Elf/Orc equation and tried to rewrite much of his Silmarillion history to allow for Man to have awakened earlier in Middle-earth. 

In the Silmarillion proper, Elves woke during the twilight at Lake Cuivenien and were harrassed by Orcs on their journey towards the Blessed Realm. Man was not said to have awakened until the rising of the Moon which was much, much later when Fingolfin arrived in Beleriand. In order to reconcile the two, Tolkien wrote other tales that hinted that Man actually awoke much earlier in the far east and was corrupted by Melkor. This corruption is what caused the three houses of the Edain to flee the East and eventually migrate to Beleriand and there be befriended by Finrod Felagund. 

The Tale of Athrabeth of Finrod and Ardreth speaks of this earlier history. It allows for man to have been in existence only slightly shorter than the Elves and allows man to become the brood stock that was corrupted by Melkor to create the Orcs. Tolkien felt that Man, being closest in appearance to Melkor, would be the easiest to corrupt and therefore the logical forebearers of the Orcs and not the Elves. 

I will quote much of what was said in Morgoth's Ring when I get home tonight and have the books to post from. But for the short of it, Wonks... the Orcs bred one amongst the other as did humans.


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## Wonko The Sane (Oct 28, 2002)

I understand that the orcs probably mated like everyone else...
But that doesn't explain where they CAME from....
Were they created? Or as you say were they the spawn of some kind of corruption of a different race...
If so...HOW were they corrupted to spawn the orc race?


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## Ancalagon (Oct 28, 2002)

You may find This Thread covers a few bases for you Wonks


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## Grond (Oct 28, 2002)

Thanks Anc!!! I had completely forgotten about that thread. Everything I was going to post out of Morgoth's Ring is already posted there... by me.  LOL! I am getting senile in my old age. 

Wonks, here is the link directly to my post that gives JRRT's last discussions on the origin of Orcs.


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## Wonko The Sane (Oct 28, 2002)

Thanks, guys! I appreciate it...

Although I really answered my own questions...I did some research and now I fully understand how orcs reproduce and stuff.

I should've just done that research anyway...silly Wonks. Thanks though!!


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## Ancalagon (Oct 28, 2002)

So we are all agreed then; they are delivered by storks!


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## Snaga (Oct 28, 2002)

Can I just say that this all just theory, but in practice its so much better! 

Sorry that could be bad taste!


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## Wonko The Sane (Oct 28, 2002)

It probably IS bad taste!! 

But man...I wasn't even going to HINT at that!! You totally crossed the line and I would like to point out that it was NOT me for ONCE!!! 
See that mod people?! SEE!??!

But you're certainly right!!


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