# Where Were The Dwarves Seven Mansions?



## Bucky (Dec 21, 2007)

I posted this on a topic in 'The Hobbit section, but figured not many folks would see it.
I thought it would spark more interest under it's own title.......


Far to the East is another mountain range called The Red Mountains, from whence the Elves came.

The Seven fathers of the Dwarves were spread about in various mountain ranges & set there in sleep to await the Awakening of The Elves.

Two Kindreds had homes in the Blue Mountains, at Nogrod & Mt. Dolmed.
The Third, Durin's, were in the Misty Mountains at Khazad-Dum, aka, Moria.
The fourth, if you believe they were one of the 7, The Petty Dwarves (I do), were at Nargothrond in Belariand before the Elves of Findrod Felagund.
The other 3 kindreds aren't mentioned, but we have some hints......

First, it says in the Tale of Years that some of every Race becides Elves fought on each side in the great battle of Dagorlad between Sauron and the Last Alliance of Elves and Men. This means Dwarves were on both sides.
The Kindred of Durin fought with The Last Alliance, but what Dwarves fought for Sauron?
Most likely, they would be Dwarves who were in 'enemy held territoy', and that leaves only two mountain ranges, the Red Mountains of the far East and the Grey Mountains of Harad (not Wilderland).
As there are few other mountain ranges that could have Dwarves of the 7 kindreds in them, it is possible two or even all 3 of the otheer kindreds were set to sleep in these two ranges......

Why?
What are the other possibilities?
The Iron Hills were Durin's Folk removed from Moria via Erebor & The Grey Mountains of Wilderland.....

The Grey Mountains of Wilderland are a probable location of a 5th Kindred, as Durin's Folk also settled there between stops at Erebor (the Lonely Mountain). They left there due to the influx of Dragons from the Withered Heath & returned to Erebor. It seems somewhat likely that, as in the Blue Mountains, Durin's Folk mingled with another Kindred, although there is no mention of this.

That still leaves one Kindred set in each Far Harad & the Far East.........

There are or were other mountain ranges in Middle Earth, but they are unlikely candidates for dwellings of the dwarves.....

The Iron Mountains, used by Morgoth as protection for Angband & Utumno & thoroughly mined by his slaves, seems completely out.

So do all other mountain ranges in Beleriand, as it is clearly stated in The Silmarillion that 'The dwarves first entered Beleriand' & 'The Elves thought themselves the only beings that spoke'.
So, only the hidden Petty Dwarves were there......

That leaves us with only the White Mountains, which have no evidence of having had a Dwarvish pressence.

Speculation on Mordor by Middle Earth Geologists is that it was underwater until the Fall of Beliariand at the end of The First Age, so it would be out too....

Does anyone have any thoughts or further info to add?


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## Bucky (Dec 21, 2007)

I was reading that guy's essay on dragons - intense - and it struck me when he mentions the part about each of the seven hordes of the Dwarves having it's foundation in a Ring of Power that this would seem to exclude the Petty Dwarves from being one of the Seven original Fathers of the Dwarves as they died out in The First Age before The Rings of Power were made (2ND Age, circe 1600).....

However, where did they come from then?
They didn't just spring out of stone did they?
It would seem JRR dropped the ball here.  

So, I'm sticking with my original hypothisis that the father of the Petty Dwarves are one of the original Seven Fathers......


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## Elthir (Dec 22, 2007)

Some interesting notions Tolkien held when he wrote the essay _Of Dwarves And Men_ at least.




> 'In the Dwarvish traditions of the Third Age the names of the places where each of the Seven Ancestors had 'awakened' were remembered; but only two of them were known to Elves and Men of the West: the most westerly, the awakening place of the ancestors of the _Firebeards _and the _Broadbeams;_ and that of the ancestor of the _Longbeards_, the eldest in making and awakening. The first had been in the north of the Ered Lindon, the great eastern wall of Beleriand, of which the Blue Mountains of the Second and later ages were the remnant; the second had been Mount Gundabad (in origin a Khuzdul name), which was therefore revered by the Dwarves, and its occupation in the Third Age by the Orks of Sauron was one of the chief reasons for their great hatred of the Orks.





> The other two places were eastward, at distances as great or greater than that between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad: the arising of the _Ironfists_ and _Stiffbeards_, and that of the _Blacklocks_ and _Stonefoots_. Though these four points were far sundered the Dwarves of different kindreds were in communication, and in the early ages often held assemblies of delegates at Mount Gundabad. In times of great need even the most distant would send help to any of their people; as was the case in the great War against the Orks (Third Age 2793 to 2799). Though they were loth to migrate and make permanent dwellings or 'mansions' far from their original homes, except under great pressure from enemies or after some catastrophe such as the ruin of Beleriand, they were great and hardy travellers and skilled road-makers; also, all the kindreds shared a common language.' JRRT​


 

In _Quendi And Eldar_ it was noted: _'The great Dwarves despised the Petty-dwarves, who were (it is said) the descendants of Dwarves who had left or been driven our from the Communities, being deformed or undersized, or slothful and rebellious.'_​


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## Bucky (Dec 22, 2007)

Where'd that come from?

The Peoples Of Middle Earth?

Sounds like it...

I'll have to re-read it.

BTW: That answers the Petty-Dwarves qestion too.


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## Elthir (Dec 22, 2007)

Yes, _The Peoples of Middle-Earth_ (just to confirm).

And _Quendi And Eldar_ is from _The War of the Jewels_.


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## Kandral (Aug 14, 2012)

Apart from the Firebeards, Broadbeams and Longbeards we do not know where the other 4 awoke, though at a great distance to the East, that is known.
The Petty-dwarves were not one of the 7 houses of dwarves. As the 7 houses were Firebeards, Broadbeams, Longbeards, Ironfists, Stonefoots, Blacklocks and Stiffbeards.
The Petty-dwarves were a group of dwarves orginally made up from all other houses that were banished by the others (and likely deformed by Aulë, their creator, as punishment).
The did not awake in Beleriand but moved there - it clearly says they were the first to cross the Blue Mountains.... 
It is likely they were punished for speaking the hidden tongue of Khuzdul, which Aulë had devised for them.


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## Bucky (Aug 21, 2012)

I do not think there is one ounce of evidence to say the petty-dwarves were originally deformed by Aule.


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## Prince of Cats (Aug 22, 2012)

Bucky said:


> I do not think there is one ounce of evidence to say the petty-dwarves were originally deformed by Aule.



The first thing I thought when reading the post in question was "Wow this reminds me of Bard"  

That said, Welcome to the forum, Kandral! :*up


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## Erestor Arcamen (Aug 22, 2012)

Prince of Cats said:


> The first thing I thought when reading the post in question was "Wow this reminds me of Bard"
> 
> That said, Welcome to the forum, Kandral! :*up



You mean he who shan't be named? lol

Welcome Kandral!


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