# Findis, Irimë and Argon: Canon or not?



## Elaini (Jan 28, 2019)

Tolkien sure wrote about these characters in some of his material: Finwë's daughters Findis (Fingolfin's older sister), Irimë (Finarfin's older sister) and Fingolfin's son Argon (Aredhel's little brother).

Do you consider these as a part of the canon material or not?

The Silmarillion mentions Fingolfin and Finarfin as Finwë's and Indis's "sons", not "children" in a gender neutral manner.


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## Elthir (Jan 28, 2019)

I don't consider anything canon other than what Tolkien himself published.

Argon, to take but one of your examples, exists in my personal legendarium however. That said, if something in canon makes his actions/existence (or whatever) arguably problematic or impossible, then he might be out of my personal legendarium.


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## Elaini (Jan 28, 2019)

Galin said:


> I don't consider anything canon other than what Tolkien himself published.
> 
> Argon, to take but one of your examples, exists in my personal legendarium however. That said, if something in canon makes his actions/existence (or whatever) arguably problematic or impossible, then he might be out of my personal legendarium.


JRR Tolkien himself didn't publish The Silmarillion, though. Christopher did so it was up to him to pick what is fit for publishing, but found more material even after it was published.


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## Elthir (Jan 28, 2019)

I'm not aware of any characterization from Christopher Tolkien that the constructed Silmarillion should be taken as canon -- or some characterization that essentially gives his version precedence over the existing corpus as revealed in _The History of Middle-Earth_ series.

Same with the constructed _Children of Hurin_. To my mind these are reader's versions with a different impact (more like reading an internal story) than the more "scholarly" presentation found in _The History of Middle-Earth_.

Of course, none of it was published by JRR Tolkien himself, and both presentations were published by Christopher Tolkien -- who, if I recall correctly, originally did not want to try a reader's version, but something more akin to an abbreviated HME. Guy Kay appears to have influenced CJRT to try a one volume book, but in the end we fans got both!

Happily


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## Miguel (Jan 28, 2019)

Galin said:


> Argon, to take but one of your examples, exists in my personal legendarium however



Do you have this organized on paper, and if you do, could we see it sir? 

I had to ask.


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## Elthir (Jan 28, 2019)

I wish I did have it all on paper 

Years ago I did a little construction myself: the _Tale of Galadriel and Celeborn_. I considered _author_-published text first and foremost, then used other guidelines to try and put together a reader's version, a one story version without "unwanted" inconsistencies (a measure of arguable inconsistency is found in the author-published work itself, in any case).

Also, I don't mean to bend the argument to "what is canon", it's just that if the word is involved I try to briefly state my point of view about this.

And apologies to Elaini, as it seems my approach to canon allows me to run around her question somewhat, as for me, CJRT's Silmarillion would not necessarily pose a problem with respect to imagining Argon in Middle-earth.


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