# Húrin's captivity



## Starflower (Mar 12, 2009)

> Now the thought of Morgoth dwelt ever upon Turgon; for Turgon had escaped him, of all his foes that one whom he most desired to take or to destroy. And that thought troubled him, and marred his victory, for Turgon of the mighty house of Fingolfin was now by right King of all the Noldor; and Morgoth feared and hated the house of Fingolfin, because they had the friendship of Ulmo his foe, and because of the wounds that Fingolfin gave him with his sword. And most of all his kin Morgoth feared Turgon; for of old in Valinor his eye had lighted upon him, and whenever he drew near a shadow had fallen on his spirit, foreboding that in some time that yet lay hidden, from Turgon ruin should come to him.
> Therefore Húrin was brought before Morgoth, for Morgoth knew that he had the friendship of the King of Gondolin; but Húrin defied him, and mocked him. Then Morgoth cursed Húrin and Morwen and their offspring, and set a doom upon them of darkness and sorrow; and taking Húrin from prison he set him in a chair of stone upon a high place of Thangorodrim. There he was bound by the power of Morgoth, and Morgoth standing beside him cursed him again; and he said: 'Sit now there; and look out upon the lands where evil and despair shall come upon those whom thou lovest. Thou hast dared to mock me, and to question the power of Melkor, Master of the fates of Arda. Therefore with my eyes thou shalt see, and with my ears thou shalt hear; and never shalt thou move from this place until all is fulfilled unto its bitter end.'
> And even so it came to pass; but it is not said that Húrin asked ever of Morgoth either mercy of death, for himself or for any of his kin.



Now we know that at the time, Morgoth was completely obsessed with finding Gondolin and defeating Turgon. But I have always wondered about this passage. There seems to be very little justification for Húrin's enslavement, other than 'Húrin defied him, and mocked him'. Why did Morgoth just kill him? I mean I get it that he relished seeing his enemy captive, but what was Morgoth hoping to achieve with this?


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## chrysophalax (Mar 12, 2009)

Death would be too, simple, too final. I mean, where's the sport in that? Why not take your most hated enemy, sit him on a high spot (without even popcorn and soda, mind), bind him there, then give him perfect vision so he can watch the all the sorrows that befall his nearest and dearest?

For most people, being unable to go to the aid of their loved ones would break them psychologically at least. Hurin was, if nothing else, a man of action, so I'm fairly certain he wasn't best pleased with what Morgoth had done to him.


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## ltnjmy (Mar 12, 2009)

I also think that Morgoth singled Hurin out because of his outstanding bravery at the end of The Nirneath (the 5th Battle of Beleriand) and he heard of his friendship with Turgon, King of Gondolin.

For remember - back in Valinor - Morgoth had a premonition that evil would befall him from Turgon (and/or his line - which happened - Turgon's grandson Earendil convinced the Valar to overthow him at the end of the First Age).


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## Starflower (Mar 13, 2009)

> Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried: 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; _but they took him at last alive by the command of Morgoth,_ for the Orcs grappled him with their hands, which slung to him still though he hewed off their arms; and ever their numbers were renewed until at last he fell buried beneath them. Then Gothmog bound him and dragged him to Angband with mockery.


 (emphasis mine)

Why did he want Húrin alive? Apart from having been to Gondolin, what other information was Morgoth hoping to extract from him?


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## Tyelkormo (Mar 13, 2009)

Starflower said:


> (emphasis mine)
> 
> Why did he want Húrin alive? Apart from having been to Gondolin, what other information was Morgoth hoping to extract from him?


 
I believe you're thinking too much in human motivation terms. Turn the question around: What does he gain by killing Hurin? Morgoth doesn't need to think in terms of resources, in terms of feeding prisoners etc. With Hurin dead, he, Morgoth, would no longer control him. As long as he's alive, the promise of Eru is an uncertainty for Hurin and every single day is torture. As long as he's alive, Morgoth has power over him. It's not about information. It's about power and control. Killing him would throw away the power Morgoth has over him.


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## Starflower (Mar 13, 2009)

Ah. Of course. That's very insightful by the way


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## Úlairi (Mar 13, 2009)

I believe the following quote elucidates the mind of Morgoth in his dealings with Húrin and his fear that Túrin would be so great that he would surpass his Doom...



> _The History of Middle-earth X: Morgoth's Ring - Myths Transformed_
> 
> *Thus, as 'Morgoth', when Melkor was confronted by the existence of other inhabitants of Arda, with other wills and intelligences, he was enraged by the mere fact of their existence, and his only notion of dealing with them was by physical force, or the fear of it. His sole ultimate object was their destruction. Elves and still more Men, he despised because of their 'weakness': that is their lack of physical force, or power over 'matter'; but he was also afraid of them. He was aware, at any rate originally when still capable of rational thought, that he could not 'annihilate' them: that is, destroy their being; but their physical 'life', and incarnate form became increasingly to his mind the only thing worth considering. Or he became so far advanced in Lying that he lied even to himself, and pretended that he could destroy them and rid Arda of them altogether. Hence his endeavour always to break wills and subordinate them or to absorb them into his own will and being, before destroying their bodies. This was sheer nihilism, and negation its one ultimate object...*


 
Morgoth desired the corruption of Húrin before his destruction; and through him he could achieve more than the destruction of one man alone. He nearly annihilated the entire House of Hador...

*Cheers,*

*Úlairi.*


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## Nenya (Apr 4, 2009)

well, perhaps one should consider the fact that Morgoth was one of the Ainur, so he needed more than simply to kill someone in order to feel satisfied or superior or able to be the lord of Arda.

he always tried to use the wills and the feelings of others ( both Elves and Men ) in order to defeat them. all the troubles of the children of Illuvatar started because of Melkor's lies...

i mean, i always thought of Morgoth as more than just a killing machine. at least at first.


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## Mr. Istari (Apr 23, 2009)

There were two things that came to my mind when I thought of why Morgoth would torture Hurin.



> ...for it seems to the Elves that Men Resemble Melkor most of the Ainur, although he has ever feared and hated them, even those that served him.


Morgoth seems to have a special hate and fear of mankind so it seems natural to me for him to torture such an outsdanding man.



> Death is their fate, the gift of Iluvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy.


This seems to be suggesting that Morgoth may be keeping Hurin alive because he believes it is some kind of blessing/gift to be able to die and not be confined the bounds of the world.

I'd also like to point out that all of the suggestions and theories I've read here seem quite valid in themselves. Looks like Morgoth had no shortage of reasons for his cruel behaviour.


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## Bucky (May 16, 2009)

Morgoth doesn't think in terms of 'Wow, what an outstanding man I have here, I think I'll make him my Highest Captain if he tells me what I want to know."

He wants information, Hurin instead tells off 'Melkor, Master of the Fates of Arda' (as Morgoth still sees himself of couse) and he just flies into a rage because Hurin "has dared to mock" him.....

And devises the meanest, cruelest punishment he can.

it's really just that simple.....

And all right there in the exchange between Morgoth & Hurin.


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## Lindréd (May 19, 2009)

Bucky said:


> Morgoth....... devises the meanest, cruelest punishment he can.
> 
> it's really just that simple.....



I agree. Húrin doesn't react the way Morgoth wants him to, or expects (i.e. I don't think Morgoth expected a mere man to be that steadfast), and so he simply subjects him to the worst punishment he can imagine. What could be more cruel than being forced to sit and watch your own children slowly destroy themselves completely, knowing that you can do nothing about it? Absolutely horrifying! In comparison, death would have been a gift. To me this is one of the greatest, and most ingenious demonstrations of pure evil (on a personal level) in all of Tolkien's works. 

Question for our resident mythology experts: Does this particular element of the Children of Húrin saga have any basis in the older myths which influenced Tolkien in the writing of this story? Or is the punishment substory purely a Tolkien creation?


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