# Goldberry, not Tom!



## Eonwe (Apr 10, 2002)

In all the threads we have talked about Tom being an unidentified enigma, not a real part of the Mythology of ME. But no-one that I know of has taken it from this angle?

Why did Goldberry, river-daughter, whom Tom found down in the river Withy-Windle apparently, and who can conjure up a spring cleaning storm, marry Tom?

Why would someone obviously (at least to me) associated with Ulmo marry an enigma?


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## Turgon (Apr 10, 2002)

I think the answer to your question Eonwe, lies in the sex appeal of Tom himself... what woman can resist a man with a big pair of yellow boots? None that I know of - which is why I always wear a pair when I go out clubbing...


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## Gamil Zirak (Apr 10, 2002)

That was funny Turgon. I actually laughed out loud at work. It's not inconceivable that Goldberry would marry Tom if you consider the fact that Elves married men. It's debatable whether Tom was even an enigma anyway, but that's a whole new thread so we won't go there.


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## Sam_Gamgee (Apr 10, 2002)

tom is assumed to be a valar by some, i am one of those some that think tom was a valar, in the Simarillion it talks about some of the valar and maia coming to ME with the elves because they loved them so much, some of the valar loved elves so much they even married them, tom and goldberry must be one of those valar/elf couples.


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## Gamil Zirak (Apr 10, 2002)

Sam_Gamgee - Do you think Goldberry is an Elf?


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## Eonwe (Apr 10, 2002)

If she is an Elf, she's pretty powerful to call down a storm


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## Gamil Zirak (Apr 10, 2002)

Couldn't she be the daughter of Ulmo? I think it says in there somewhere that she was the river-daughter.


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## Eonwe (Apr 11, 2002)

Or of Uinen, a Maia of Ulmo?


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## shadowfax_g (Apr 11, 2002)

I am wondering if she is as old as Tom.
Can anyone clarify me?


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## Sam_Gamgee (Apr 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by shiloh53 _
> *Sam_Gamgee - Do you think Goldberry is an Elf? *



I thought it said in the book that she was an elf. i guess im wrong. i dunno i will have to look it up. if shes not then forget what i said. she could be a maia, i dunno.


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## Bucky (Apr 11, 2002)

Sam:

The Ainur, Vala & Maia, came to ARDA, not ME, because of their love of the children of Illuvator.

And, no Vala married an elf.
One Maia did, Melian.

And, there is many statements that the Valar did not dwell in ME, they dwelt in Valinor.
So, Tom is not a Vala.
Tolkien states plainly in one letter that Tom is 'the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford countryside'
So, Tom is a physical manifestation of ME....

But, nobody wants to buy that.

Now Goldberry:
Who says SHE made it rain?
Maybe she told Tom to do it.
Or, maybe it just happened to rain.

But, who is she?
Now, that's the real inigma, not Tom.......

My answer?
She's Mrs. Tom Bombadil.......

Maybe, in Tolkien's mind, as a Christian, Tom & Goldberry equal the 'perfect whole', created first.
What? you say?
Bare with me a minute.
Adam was made in the image of God & created first, but, before I'm called a male chauvanist, Eve was created out of Adam. Therefore, the TRUE image of God as He created Man is not Adam, it's Adam AND Eve, i.e. a man & a woman, with their different attributes put back together in marriage as two becoming one.......

So, as Tom was first, maybe it's Tolkien's way of copping the Adam & Eve creation into ME, & Tom needs his Eve, Goldberry.


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## Eonwe (Apr 11, 2002)

A little bird told me that it was a forced marriage.


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## DGoeij (Apr 11, 2002)

It sure does look like a classic case of an arranged marriage. Goldberry is the daughter of the river, which flows trough the lands where Tom is Master. Now any wise parent in days of trouble would give away his daughter to ensure the unison between her/his family and their powerfull neighbour.


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## Eonwe (Apr 11, 2002)

girls always had it bad. They get given away in marriage against their will, or sacrificed to a god, or eaten by a dragon to save the town.

Whereas men had to fight the wars and get skewered by swords.

Ok so it was pretty bad all around.


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## Lantarion (Apr 11, 2002)

How could the marriage be forced? I don't think it says anywhere who the parents of Goldberry and Tom were (Tom's mom?!), and in the case of an arranged marriage there should be someone to arrange it! So how could it be forced by anybody, when nobody else was around? Beats me.. 
And here is my usual nickety-pickety:
Bucky, it's not spelled _Illuvator_ *shivers*, it's _Ilúvatar_. I think it means "father of everything" [_il_=everything?;_atar_ = father, Cf. _Atarinwa_ in UT]

;D


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## Eonwe (Apr 11, 2002)

From "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil":



> But one day Tom, he went and caught the River-daughter,
> in green gown, flowing hair, sitting in the rushes,
> singing old water-songs to birds upon the bushes.
> 
> ...



Beware of guys in yellow boots.


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## Cpt Kangaroo (Apr 11, 2002)

I always considered Goldberry, when I first read the book 10 yrs ago, to be none other than Mother Nature herself. Not from any of the races mentioned in Tolkiens books. As far as Tom, I dont know, maybe the more powerful Father Weather?  Didnt he make it rain when he wanted the Hobbits to stay and clear the skies when he thought they stayed long enough? (or so I got that impression when reading the book. The book doesnt actually say that, I dont believe.) 
Even though Goldberry "can bring down a storm", that may only mean that if Tom doesnt feel like doing it, she "can", being Mother Nature and all, hehe.   

Cpt. Kangaroo <-- I kept picturing him as TB when I read the book. No matter how hard I tried to picture someone new, it wouldnt take. Cpt Kangaroo was stuck as TB in my twisted mind as I read it, LOL.


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## Gil-Galad (Apr 11, 2002)

Well I think that their marriage is forced.It seems to me very strange someone to like,or even love Tom.That idea makes me laughing .In general I think Tom is neither Vala nor Maia,but then comes the question-"What kind of creature is Tom?"I just don't know so much things about LOTR to know the answer.


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## DGoeij (Apr 11, 2002)

Well, I sometime wear T-shirts of eye-watering colours (yellow, green and such) and I have a girlfriend. And she's very fond of water. 
Personally, I liked Tom for being happy all the time and wearing a colourfull outfit.


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## Bucky (Apr 11, 2002)

>>>Bucky, it's not spelled Illuvator *shivers*, it's Ilúvatar. I think it means
"father of everything" [il=everything?;atar = father, Cf. Atarinwa in UT] 

I hate elvish & all ME languages.

How do you say 'who cares' in Queenya?  

Illuvator, Illuvatar, Elevator, Darthvader.
Big deal.

And Pointifex, didn't you catch on that they were joking about the arranged marriage?


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