# Trolls and Sunlight



## LordOfMoria (Jan 11, 2003)

Ok remember in the Hobbit when the three trolls turned into stone because of the sunlight, well in the movie (and i know this aint a movie forum but oh well) A few Trolls are opening the black gates of Mordor in the sunlight. Shouldnt they be turned to stone as well? A clever part on PJ that i think did well because how else would the gaes be opned? I forgot how they opened them in the book? was it with trolls?


----------



## Maeglin (Jan 11, 2003)

It may have been with trolls in the book, but to answer your question The Trolls in Lord of the Rings could live in the sunlight because Sauron had breeded a special kind of troll that could survive the sunlight (kind of like Saruman's Uruk-Hai), and they had a special name, but I can't remember it right now.


----------



## Gothmog (Jan 11, 2003)

What was so clever about it?



> Then even as he thought these things the first assault crashed into them. The orcs hindered by the mires that lay before the hills halted and poured their arrows into the defending ranks. But through them there came striding up, roaring like beasts, a great company of hill-trolls out of Gorgoroth. Taller and broader than Men they were, and they were clad only in close-fitting mesh of horny scales, or maybe that was their hideous hide; but they bore round bucklers huge and black and wielded heavy hammers in their knotted hands. Reckless they sprang into the pools and waded across, bellowing as they came. Like a storm they broke upon the line of the men of Gondor, and beat upon helm and head, and arm and shield as smiths hewing the hot bending iron. At Pippin's side Beregond was stunned and overborne, and he fell; and the great troll-chief that smote him down bent over him, reaching out a clutching claw; for these fell creatures would bite the throats of those that they threw down.


 From RotK: The Black Gate opens.

And as for the sunlight, just before the above quote you will find in the same chapter


> And out of the gathering mirk the Nazgúl came with. their cold voices crying words of death; and then all hope was quenched.



Underline added for emphasis.


----------



## Confusticated (Jan 14, 2003)

They were named olog-hai, they could endure light and were bread by Sauron (or at least thought to have been, I can not remember which) but some also thought they were large orcs.. however, they were trolls. They showed up in the third age, and used only the black speech.
You can read more about this race in the language section of the appendix.


----------



## Lantarion (Jan 14, 2003)

Hmph, you beat me to it Conf... Nóm. 
But Gothmog already noted that it was dim, if not dark when the Black gate was opened.. Then again, is there ever any actual sunlight in Mordor?


----------



## aragil (Jan 14, 2003)

> _From The Lord of the Rings, The Black Gate Opens_
> The wind blew, and the trumpets sang, and arrows whined; but the sun now climbing towards the South was veiled in the reeks of Mordor, and through a threatening haze it gleamed, remote, a sullen red, as if it were the ending of the day, or the end maybe of all the world of light.





> _From the Lord of the Rings, The Fields of Cormallen_
> All about the hills the hosts of Mordor raged. The Captains of the West were foundering in a gathering sea. The sun gleamed red, and under the wings of the Nazgûl the shadows of death fell dark upon the earth.





> _From the Lord of the Rings, The Fields of Cormallen_
> As when death smites the swollen brooding thing that inhabits their crawling hill and holds them all in sway, ants will wander witless and purposeless and then feebly die, so the creatures of Sauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless;


I think it's fairly obvious that the sun was visible at the Black Gates- it's described as showing through twice. Compare this with just the peep of sun that turns the Hobbit trolls to stone. Finally, we have the description of the Trolls running around witless, after Sauron passes, which nicely matches the bit out of Appendix F:


> Unlike the older race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them.



Finally, lest there be any doubt, there are three passages which pretty much confirm The Hill Trolls to be Olog-hai (not necessarily the only Olog-hai, but at least an example):


> _From The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F_
> But at the end of the Third Age a troll-race not before seen appeared in southern Mirkwood and in the mountain borders of Mordor. ... Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone.





> _From the Lord of the Rings, The Shadow of the Past_
> Trolls were abroad, no longer dull-witted, but cunning and armed with dreadful weapons.





> _From The Lord of the Rings, The Black Gates Open_
> But through them there came striding up, roaring like beasts, a great company of hill-trolls out of Gorgoroth. Taller and broader than Men they were, and they were clad only in close-fitting mesh of horny scales, or maybe that was their hideous hide; but they bore round bucklers huge and black and wielded heavy hammers in their knotted hands.


The cunning bit seems to match the Olog-hai to the Trolls of the Shadow from the Past, and the weapons bit matches those Trolls to the Hill Trolls. Looks like a pretty neat match to me (or to ShagratU, who originally made the links)!


----------



## Aulë (Jan 15, 2003)

One thing that I didn't understand about trolls, is that when Aragorn (I think) sung a song about a troll (whilst in the Trollshaws), Pippin said that it was lucky that he hit the stoned troll with a stick rather than his hand.
Can they come back to life if you touch them?


----------



## Lantarion (Jan 15, 2003)

Omg. No, I think it would just be rather painful to strike a huge rock with your bare hand.


----------



## Aulë (Jan 15, 2003)

Ahh, that makes a lot more sense!
Thanks


----------



## Flame of Udûn (Jan 23, 2003)

It was Sam who recited the poem, that he created by the way.


----------

