# Hidden Map Message



## kingoftheamericas (Feb 15, 2019)

I have found Middle Earth.

While research Amerindian Land Ownership, I was rifling through reports of early Spanish and French attempts to invade/explore the Western Territories of North America, and found this quote:

"...spreading the alarm throughout the country by means of great fires, which they kindled on high mountains,..."

At first, I thought, Tolkien, you dog! You just stole this tidbit from history, and included it in the Two Towers! Then I considered how Cibola was described as a City on or in a Mountain, and how Minas Tirith might look...what if Coronado was trying to invade Gondor...? So, I took a map of Middle Earth, turned it to try and fit what and where Coronado's description lay, and Eureka!

Instead of Rohan, I found a massive "Horse Pasture", instead of Helm's Deep, "Laguna" and instead of a City on a Mountain I found "Castle Mountain." I could go on, I found them ALL, except for the entry to the Mines of Moria...I think it's buried.

So, how do I go about- telling fans, protecting the sites from those who would pilfer them for trinkets and treasure, while reclaiming the City on the Mountain, as "King of the Americas, Lord of the West"? (lol)

I am totally serious. This is in no way a joke, or a scam. 

Please help me...I have no idea who to turn to...?


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## Miguel (Feb 15, 2019)

I think i read some time ago that Barad-dûr would have been somewhere in the Mediterranean.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 15, 2019)

Miguel said:


> I think i read some time ago that Barad-dûr would have been somewhere in the Mediterranean.


And The Shire was England.




CL


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## Miguel (Feb 15, 2019)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> And The Shire was England.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree.


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## Thouaweek (Feb 16, 2019)

Using fires on hilltops was used in Argyll, Scotland, during the time of Dalriada period.


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 16, 2019)

Miguel said:


> I think i read some time ago that Barad-dûr would have been somewhere in the Mediterranean.



Nope, not even close.



Thouaweek said:


> Using fires on hilltops was used in Argyll, Scotland, during the time of Dalriada period.



I'll concede the point, but I found ALL of the sites, you could mention from the books.

What do I do with this information? How do I protect the sites from looters and vandals?


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## Thouaweek (Feb 16, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> Nope, not even close.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have some choices to make, either don't tell anyone, and the sites won't be damaged, or publish and reap the glory. I think you will need to publish in precise detail to convince everyone that your theory holds true.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 16, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> Nope, not even close.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do realize the author himself said as much that Middle-earth is situated in Europe right? The Shire is Oxford.



CL


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 16, 2019)

Thouaweek said:


> You have some choices to make, either don't tell anyone, and the sites won't be damaged, or publish and reap the glory. I think you will need to publish in precise detail to convince everyone that your theory holds true.



There being damaged now, by the elements and those unaware that they build upon ancient ruins...

I am working on a piece now, but I need to do some field research. Who or where would you go for funding?



CirdanLinweilin said:


> You do realize the author himself said as much that Middle-earth is situated in Europe right? The Shire is Oxford.
> 
> 
> 
> CL



I had 'heard' that ages ago, but I could find no such concrete reference.

If you have a citation I'd love to see it...

However, like I've said, I found all of the places, where they should be, one modern maps. Middle Earth is real and it is not in Europe.


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## Miguel (Feb 16, 2019)

Does this positions the ruins of Utumno under the Artic above Alaska/North East Russia?. Atalantë under the Pacific near Hawaii?.


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 17, 2019)

Miguel said:


> Does this positions the ruins of Utumno under the Artic over Alaska/North East Russia?. Atalantë under the Pacific near Hawaii?.



Utumno...?

Here's Helm's Deep- https://imgur.com/gallery/EpD0Ddn


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## Miguel (Feb 17, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> Utumno...?



Yeah, Utumno. The ancient dark home of the world?. Where air was poison and water froze?. Where nameless things and horror dwelt?. Of fires burning deep below?. Where Melko sat upon a throne of Illuin's rock and Ormal's stone absorbing everything he saw?. Never mind.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 17, 2019)

Miguel said:


> Yeah, Utumno. The ancient dark home of the world?. Where air was poison and water froze?. Where nameless things and horror dwelt?. Of fires burning deep below?. Where Melko sat upon a throne of Illuin's rock and Ormal's stone absorbing everything he saw?. Never mind.






CL


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 18, 2019)

Miguel said:


> Yeah, Utumno. The ancient dark home of the world?. Where air was poison and water froze?. Where nameless things and horror dwelt?. Of fires burning deep below?. Where Melko sat upon a throne of Illuin's rock and Ormal's stone absorbing everything he saw?. Never mind.



Yeah, I'm caught up... I think you are looking for northeast Russia, laid to ruins, under the land.


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## Miguel (Feb 18, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> Yeah, I'm caught up... I think you are looking for northeast Russia, laid to ruins, under the land.


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 18, 2019)

You folks seem unimpressed...


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 18, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> You folks seem unimpressed...


Tolkien himself said Middle-earth could be where Europe is. I don't think we need to contend with the author's words, mate.


Just a thought.



CL


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## Miguel (Feb 18, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> You folks seem unimpressed...








I'm just kidding. Keep me updated.


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## Ithilethiel (Feb 18, 2019)

Miguel said:


> I'm just kidding. Keep me updated.



Love the original...the remake stunk it up


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 18, 2019)

Ithilethiel said:


> Love the original...the remake stunk it up


Can't see what it is. Movie?


CL


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## Ithilethiel (Feb 18, 2019)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> Can't see what it is. Movie?
> 
> 
> CL



Ghostbusters


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 18, 2019)

Ithilethiel said:


> Ghostbusters


Ah.

Thanks


CL


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## Ithilethiel (Feb 18, 2019)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> Ah.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...



If you've never seen the original with Bill Murray, Dan Aykroyd, Harold Ramis, Sigourney Weaver, Rick Moranis, etc you should CL. It's pretty epic.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 18, 2019)

Ithilethiel said:


> If you've never seen the original with Bill Murray, Dan Aykroyd, Harold Ramis, Sigourney Weaver, Rick Moranis, etc you should CL. It's pretty epic.


I'll have to do that.


CL


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 19, 2019)

So, do you guys need to se more sites?

White trees of Minas Tirith- https://imgur.com/gallery/AbieNCU

Tough crowd...

'I' think this is the biggest literary discovery since Troy was unearthed, and no one else seems to care.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 20, 2019)

It's a fictional story. Tolkien based it off of a lot of real world myths and legends, which is why there may be "parallels" to Middle Earth. But Middle Earth, as described in LOTR, does not and has never existed.

You can find a list of what influenced Tolkien to write his stories, *here*.


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 20, 2019)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> It's a fictional story. Tolkien based it off of a lot of real world myths and legends, which is why there may be "parallels" to Middle Earth. But Middle Earth, as described in LOTR, does not and has never existed.
> 
> You can find a list of what influenced Tolkien to write his stories, *here*.



As I've noted...I found ALL of the sites, where they should be on corresponding modern maps.

Tolkien HID this fact behind the hidden message on the compass.


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## Ithilethiel (Feb 20, 2019)

Obviously you believe strongly in what you believe that you have discovered kingoftheamericas and others here believe strongly in what they believe based on their study of Tolkien's writings regarding Middle Earth. I doubt either side will change their minds at this point.

Have you posted your findings on any other Tolkien website/blog? I'm not saying go away, those who know me know I would never say that. I'm just saying you may find more interest in your discovery there.

Best wishes.


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 21, 2019)

Ithilethiel said:


> Obviously you believe strongly in what you believe that you have discovered kingoftheamericas and others here believe strongly in what they believe based on their study of Tolkien's writings regarding Middle Earth. I doubt either side will change their minds at this point.
> 
> Have you posted your findings on any other Tolkien website/blog? I'm not saying go away, those who know me know I would never say that. I'm just saying you may find more interest in your discovery there.
> 
> Best wishes.



I'm trying to post, tweet, imgur, facebook, message, and e-mail anyone with elf ears... 

I don't 'believe' I found Middle Earth. I know it. 

People believed Troy was myth once too.



Erestor Arcamen said:


> It's a fictional story. Tolkien based it off of a lot of real world myths and legends, which is why there may be "parallels" to Middle Earth. But Middle Earth, as described in LOTR, does not and has never existed.
> 
> You can find a list of what influenced Tolkien to write his stories, *here*.



Not to be argumentative, but you DID say two different things there.

You claim it's fiction, but then say (and provide a link) that he sourced old world legends and myths...?

I'm telling you he researched and then re-told a story who's world, names and locations of places ARE absolutely real. I'll post more if you'd like?

Did you see this-





https://imgur.com/gallery/Qakrqda


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 21, 2019)

Yes, he sourced old world legends and myths. Legends and myths are *fictional *stories used to explain something that people didn't understand. For example, Aurora was a Roman goddess of dawn. Aurora tragically lost her son and each day, her sorrowful tears would become the morning dew. This myth was used to explain why there was morning dew every morning. Obviously Aurora didn't actually exist but the Romans used this story to explain something they didn't understand.


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## Miguel (Feb 21, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> I'm telling you he researched and then re-told a story who's world, names and locations of places ARE absolutely real



I'm the only one who knows the secret.


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 22, 2019)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> ...Legends and myths are *fictional *stories ...



Go read "Heroes and Hero Worship," then let's talk again.

You are in over your head, and I don't drown puppies, ...anymore.



Miguel said:


> I'm the only one who knows the secret.



Nah at least 2k people know by now...


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## Miguel (Feb 22, 2019)

Look at it this way, there are lots of Thangorodrims.


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 23, 2019)

ALL THE LINKS-

Two weeks ago, I discovered that J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth is real! He encoded the fist map of Middle Earth with this cipher- https://imgur.com/gallery/Qakrqda
I was researching initial French and Spanish incursions into the Western Territories, looking for evidence of Amerindian land division, when I found this- https://imgur.com/gallery/9la21bh
A first, I thought Tolkien had stolen the quote from Coronado, and just used the event in his tale. Then I considered how Minas Tirith is indeed a "shinning city on a hill" which is what Ciloba what was described as. What if Coronado was invading Rohan or Gondor?
LOL, he was...
Helm's Deep is today called "Laguna"- https://imgur.com/gallery/EpD0Ddn
Minas Tirith is "Castle Mountain"- https://imgur.com/gallery/AbieNCU
I've found everything where it should be, just renamed, all but the entry to Moria...I think it's buried.
Oh, in a completely different pursuit, I also found the Labyrinth- https://imgur.com/gallery/c7v1tta
-King of the Americas, Lord of the West


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 24, 2019)

kingoftheamericas said:


> ALL THE LINKS-
> 
> Two weeks ago, I discovered that J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth is real! He encoded the fist map of Middle Earth with this cipher- https://imgur.com/gallery/Qakrqda
> I was researching initial French and Spanish incursions into the Western Territories, looking for evidence of Amerindian land division, when I found this- https://imgur.com/gallery/9la21bh
> ...


Just out of curiosity, is this just some elaborate trolling operation going on?



CL


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## kingoftheamericas (Feb 24, 2019)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> Just out of curiosity, is this just some elaborate trolling operation going on?
> 
> 
> 
> CL



No, I found Middle Earth, and I need help protecting the sites!

You are supposed to be Tolkien fans...

Why don't you care??

Would you guys like to see the raw footage of Bag End?

---


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## Inziladun (Mar 23, 2019)

What the hell...


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## kingoftheamericas (Mar 24, 2019)

No...that would be Mordor. 

Bag End is the tree laden place in the back left. There are still white chimneys poking up out of the ground, and the walkway around the front as well as the path to the overhill are all where they should be!

As is the square mill/grange pond and quarry...!


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## Inziladun (Mar 24, 2019)

Where then is the Straight Road? And the havens, I want to leave this place.


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## kingoftheamericas (Mar 24, 2019)

The straight road is just below, out front. 

Rivendell is my next stop.


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## Inziladun (Mar 24, 2019)

You say everything that is was just renamed, yet why are there none that still speak those native languages? Such as Sindarin, they were invented by Tolkien. I do believe in reincarnation, and perhaps our inspirations are influenced from outside of the lives we live. Those places existed before Tolkien ever wrote his story, but there are no clear connexions. To me the words and tongues of those peoples would be evidence, for that was the base of his works.


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## kingoftheamericas (Mar 25, 2019)

They are gone, utterly wiped from the face of the Earth.

The sites are where they should be, AS they should be, by names really close to their origin...

The names and places ARE real, even if the builders are gone.

Still...no love...


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## Inziladun (Mar 30, 2019)

So you are saying that our recorded history is inaccurate. And that Tolkien created a world, based on our own, with imagined events and histories that have been covered up so our reality is as it is now?


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## kingoftheamericas (Mar 31, 2019)

Inziladun said:


> So you are saying that our recorded history is inaccurate.



Yes, completely incomplete. Research the "Mud Flood."



Inziladun said:


> And that Tolkien created a world, based on our own, with imagined events and histories that have been covered up so our reality is as it is now?



No. Tolkien 'retold' a story based on myth, which turns out is true, or rather based on true events and places.

---

I started watching Game of Thrones, Season One. How in the world has no one seen the Tolkien overlap...? Instead of Sting, it Needle. Jon Snow is Aragon, and I definitely saw Mary and Pippen. 

It looks like the same story, just a different version...


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## Gandalf White (Apr 4, 2019)

Where are the Entwives?


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## kingoftheamericas (Apr 4, 2019)

Gandalf White said:


> Where are the Entwives?



No one remembers... 

No love here either... https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/153640-homer-tolkien-and-truth/

Dwarven Work-


https://imgur.com/a/8aVrs5H


So: UPDATE

I'm building an RV.

Next stop Helm's Deep.



Inziladun said:


> So you are saying that our recorded history is inaccurate. And that Tolkien created a world, based on our own, with imagined events and histories that have been covered up so our reality is as it is now?


Sort of...

I theorize that ALL books, fiction and non-fiction contain truths, fictions, and overblown myths. Our job is to carve away the fictions, to find the truth.

We can do so my taking multiple versions of the same time, and overlapping them, to find an average or a mean, between them.

Tolkien took from myth, history, oral tradition, and filled in his version of the gaps.

Martin did the same with Game of Thrones. They ARE the same story, told with different narratives.

Smaug?

GREAT active discussion - https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/159051-martin-vs-tolkien/


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## kingoftheamericas (Nov 12, 2021)

Update:

Helm's Deep -


https://imgur.com/a/wSrljJf


The Deeping Walls -


https://imgur.com/a/bdVAaAo


Helm's Deep ATE my drone...

These are the thumbnails I managed to save. Here is the top of the Keep. You can see stones in the top left corner!


https://imgur.com/a/bx3GL0S


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