# Elven Cities?



## ZehnWaters (Sep 23, 2022)

From Years of the Trees to the Third Age it seems like the Elves lived in extensive city-states. Does anyone know if Tolkien ever said whether these were just capitols and smaller cities and towns existed? We know Eöl lived with a household in Nan Elmoth and that's about it. Everyone else lived in disparate (wandering?) bands or in large enclaves like Menegroth or Nargothrond.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 23, 2022)

Hmm... Interesting topic but what are you asking precisely? We know that the whole view of civilization and socialization was very different in their time, in their world. It is quite obvious that there were some larger regions than others, but rather than the American 'states' system, the world was divided into kingdoms for each region and a monarchy leader taking command of those regions, standing most frequent as King, except in some Queenly situations.

What do you want to know? Maybe it is perfectly clear, and I am just reading your inquiry wrong, but nevertheless, please elaborate.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 23, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Hmm... Interesting topic but what are you asking precisely? We know that the whole view of civilization and socialization was very different in their time, in their world. It is quite obvious that there were some larger regions than others, but rather than the American 'states' system, the world was divided into kingdoms for each region and a monarchy leader taking command of those regions, standing most frequent as King, except in some Queenly situations.
> 
> What do you want to know? Maybe it is perfectly clear, and I am just reading your inquiry wrong, but nevertheless, please elaborate.


I'm asking if they all lived in a single city (i.e. Nargothrond) or if they actually had other cities besides the main ones listed.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 23, 2022)

Well if you look at the map, the answer is there. There were some smaller cities and greater realms. 

The 'Realm of Nargothrond' indicates that it is a larger region than say, Gondolin, or Brethil. Doriath is a realm also, and it includes in it Neldoreth and Brethil.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 23, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Well if you look at the map, the answer is there. There were some smaller cities and greater realms.
> 
> The 'Realm of Nargothrond' indicates that it is a larger region than say, Gondolin, or Brethil. Doriath is a realm also, and it includes in it Neldoreth and Brethil.View attachment 15998


So...they just don't talk about them I suppose.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 24, 2022)

Yeah, you might say that. To truly understand the paths that different characters took, you have to have the map in hand and constantly be checking it or have good memory of it. I happen chance to have both, and I can tell you from experience that it brings a great deal of depth into reading. 

The maps are amazing in every way.


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## Elassar (Sep 24, 2022)

I think also their are groups of people like billagiin the lands near himring of the sons of Fëanor: meahdros, maglor, amrod, amras, caranthir, curufin and celegorm.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 24, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Yeah, you might say that. To truly understand the paths that different characters took, you have to have the map in hand and constantly be checking it or have good memory of it. I happen chance to have both, and I can tell you from experience that it brings a great deal of depth into reading.
> 
> The maps are amazing in every way.


I know. I do use them. They just don't list any towns, cities, or villages in Finrod's realm beyond Nargothrond or Minas Tirith.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 25, 2022)

Goheno-nin! Not trying to be rude or anything, seriously. Sorry if it came across that way. Many people use the maps, myself included. You are right. It takes some seriously involved research to find everything.


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## ZehnWaters (Sep 25, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Goheno-nin! Not trying to be rude or anything, seriously. Sorry if it came across that way.


No, no, you're fine.


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