# Light Lord



## Manwe (Feb 5, 2004)

As some may know Ilike to spectulate possible outcomes if certain events had changed/occured.
And in my recent one 'Possible Candidates', it has come to my attention another question
I know I could have left it in that thread but I believe in keeping with the topic.

As we know, many beings cold have become a Dark Lord.
Who could have firstly destroyed the One Ring, then forged another one, eg.Gandalf pouring all his compassion and wisdom into a new One Ring, to become the new Lord


Once again inform me if anyone has thought of this before


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## Flammifer (Feb 5, 2004)

This is certainly what one would call speculating!

There are seemingly two questions here. The first one is, *"could Gandalf make a Ring similar to the One Ring?"*, and the second one is, *"why would Gandalf make a Ring similar to the One Ring?"*

*Question one*

Personally I do not think that Gandalf could make a Ring that was of similar power to the One Ring. I would put this mainly down to the fact that Sauron is a Maia of Aule, and thus inherently skilled in making stuff, whereas as Olorin is a Maia of Manwe (I think), and does not have the same sorts of powers. (I'm sure there are other reasons, but I can't be bothered thinking of them)

*Question two*

This is perhaps the more important question. I see no reason why Gandalf would make a One Ring. It would be breaking the guidelines of the Valar, which instruct him to lead Men and Elves in the cause against Sauron *without* displays of open power. Making a Ring similar to the One Ring would certainly violate this rule.

I don't doubt that there are many other reasons why he wouldn't make one, but I don't have the mental capacity to type them right now. College does that to you (in Australia "college" is grades 11 and 12).


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## Manwe (Feb 6, 2004)

I dont just mean Gandalf, he was just an example.
And just because he couldn't make a ring couldn't he get someone to make it for him or do you need to make the ring in order for your power to go into it?


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## Flammifer (Feb 6, 2004)

Good question. I would be inclined to think that if you wanted to make a Ring that has the best part of your power in it, you would have to make the Ring yourself.

Saruman would probably be able to do it, as he is a Maia of Aule, and I think we know that Saruman has no problem with ignoring the instructions of the Valar, don't we!


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## Narkano (Feb 9, 2004)

Manwe said:


> As some may know Ilike to spectulate possible outcomes if certain events had changed/occured.
> And in my recent one 'Possible Candidates', it has come to my attention another question
> I know I could have left it in that thread but I believe in keeping with the topic.
> 
> ...


I think it would be against his nature. "Lord" implies control, which is the farthest thing from his mind.


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## jimmyboy (Feb 11, 2004)

Agreed.

I would also add that the reason Saruon made the one Ring was so that he could control the bearers of the other rings, which gave him control of the leaders of the three races. (or so he had planned.) What other rings would/could Gandalf or anyone else gain control of by making his own Ring? He'd have to make other rings, somehow causing his own influence to be invested into them, and convince others to take them and wear them.

May be an interesting alternate history, or "what if...?", but it doesn't mean much if we consider the given history of Middle-earth.
(Sorry, I don't mean to rain on your parade, man...)


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## Isthir (Feb 12, 2004)

Flammifer said:


> This is certainly what one would call speculating!
> 
> There are seemingly two questions here. The first one is, *"could Gandalf make a Ring similar to the One Ring?"*, and the second one is, *"why would Gandalf make a Ring similar to the One Ring?"*


*Of Manwe's Speculation*​ 
_¤ As to if Gandalf could craft a ring similiar to the One, I do not see why not. Being a Maia himself, Mithrandir would be of knowledge of many things, especially the knowledge of forging a ring (though perhaps not as proficent as the Dark Maia). As well, it does not take the knowledge of Aulë to craft works of greatness, for this just look at Fëanor who crafted the Silmarils that could not be dublicated by any, even a Vala._​ 
_¤ Now, the reasoning behind Gandalf, if he held the knowledge, crafting his own Ring. Gandalf, personally, would never do so, for he is the only of the Istari that did not faulter in his mission within ME. However, Saruman indeed had the motivation to do so, but not the forge in which to craft it. It is hinted that the flames of Orodruin were the only flames in which such a ring could be crafted, hence why the One could only be destroyed within them. As well, Saruman desired the Rings of Power, and all that would be bestowed upon him through them; becoming obsessed with the One he, IMO, lost sight of his own knowledge of craft. Furthermore, there would be no reason to craft another Ring to control the other Eighteen for two reasons:_​_1) The One controls the others through the power of Sauron in their making_​_a)Which effected even the Three_​_2) Why craft another Ring when the work has already been done?_​ 
I do hope my opinion has helped, and if not, too bad! Its mine and you can't have it....or something​-Isthir​


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## Flammifer (Feb 13, 2004)

Excellent post, Isthir!



Isthir said:


> As well, it does not take the knowledge of Aulë to craft works of greatness, for this just look at Fëanor who crafted the Silmarils that could not be dublicated by any, even a Vala.



Fëanor's knowledge and skills was actually enhanced under the nurturing and guidance of Aulë, but yes, it's true that the Silmarils could not be made by even a Vala. But what made the Silmarils great was the Light of the Two Trees, and they were made by the the Valar.


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## Isthir (Feb 13, 2004)

I thank you for the praise Flam. As for that of the Trees, I shall post later, for it is now almost three in the morning here and sleep dwells on me greatly.

-Isthir​


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## Lantarion (Feb 13, 2004)

Isthir said:


> As well, it does not take the knowledge of Aulë to craft works of greatness, for this just look at Fëanor who crafted the Silmarils that could not be dublicated by any, even a Vala.


But Fëanor did have the knowledge of Aulë. And also Fëanor was a unique individual whose like was never seen again in Arda, and could even be likened to a Maia.


Isthir said:


> I thank you for the praise Flam. As for that of the Trees, I shall post later, for it is now almost three in the morning here and sleep dwells on me greatly.


Praise? I saw no praise.  
As for your post on the Trees, I'll be looking forward to your insights and something new to the discussion.


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## Isthir (Feb 14, 2004)

Lantarion said:


> Praise? I saw no praise.


I see this as praise, for I take great pride in all that I post here, and am but a young soul within these halls:



Flammifer said:


> Excellent post, Isthir!


As for my post on the Trees, I must delay for yet another day, for the post is still being composed, forgive me in this.

-Isthir​


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## Lhunithiliel (Feb 14, 2004)

To the original "speculative" question of this most interesting thread....

I would sya that there could've been characters that could've become a "Lord / Lady of Light". 
Yet, the very thing of becoming a "Lord" means to gain power and authority. And doesn't power corrupt?!?? 
I think it does.
So, even if the initial intentions were good, the final outcome would not be! For a corrupted by power and authority soul can not be _good_ any more!

This is how I understand the firm refusal of such characters as Gandalf and Galadriel, even Aragorn, to accept the One Ring.

So, I don't think a "Lord/Lady of Light" could've existed through a ring or through any other means.


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## Lantarion (Feb 14, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Yet, the very thing of becoming a "Lord" means to gain power and authority. And doesn't power corrupt?!??
> I think it does.
> So, even if the initial intentions were good, the final outcome would not be! For a corrupted by power and authority soul can not be good any more!


Do you think, then, that there cannot be rulers who are just and righteous? Do you think that Aragorn turned to evil when he began reigning the Reunited Kingdom, just because he realized the power he held?
That's quite a cynical and pessimistic worldview, I'd say, if you think that every ruler inevitably becomes corrupted!


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 14, 2004)

Lantarion said:


> Do you think, then, that there cannot be rulers who are just and righteous?


There certainly can. But for a good person to forge a ring and remain good...is somewhat of an oxymoron. That is if we assume that the ring they would forge would serve them to exert their will and power over others.



Lhunithiliel said:


> So, I don't think a "Lord/Lady of Light" could've existed through a ring or through any other means.


But Lords and Ladies of light exist already - these are characters such as Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, Círdan, Saruman before he was corrupted... The definition of a Lord/Lady doesn't have to be someone who has a throng of thralls under their command...just a very powerful figure.



Isthir said:


> _As to if Gandalf could craft a ring similiar to the One, I do not see why not. Being a Maia himself, Mithrandir would be of knowledge of many things, especially the knowledge of forging a ring (though perhaps not as proficent as the Dark Maia)._


Frankly, I don't think it was in Gandalf's power to forge a ring of power. He was not a Maia of Aulë, and forging was not his domain. He was a Maia of Manwë, or of Irmo Lórien (which of these two is unclear and ambiguous).



Isthir said:


> _As well, it does not take the knowledge of Aulë to craft works of greatness, for this just look at Fëanor who crafted the Silmarils that could not be dublicated by any, even a Vala._


Fëanor was a Noldo, and the Noldor had an inborn love of forging, crafting, building, and the like. Their knowledge was further enhanced by the teachings of the Valar, especially Aulë and Yavanna. Therefore only the 'people' of Aulë, meaning his Maiar and the Noldor, had the power to forge a ring of power IMHO.

Isthir, your enthusiasm is refreshing. Welcome to TTF!


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## Isthir (Feb 17, 2004)

Thank you for the warm welcome!

As well, the long awaited post about the trees still must wait, for my job has been keeping me bogged down and tired. As well, for the chronological style of my posts: I only go back and retell that which is in the books so that further understanding can be made within the point that I am trying to make. *Shrugs*

-Isthir​


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