# How the ring affects Bilbo vs. Frodo



## El-ahrairah (Nov 5, 2002)

Excuse me if this has been asked before.

From what I understand, when The Hobbit was written, little or no thought was being put into LoTR. I am curious how the following was explained using 20/20 hindsight.

Bilbo finds the ring, puts it on, and says something along the lines of "what's this! How wonderful!".

Even during his 111th birthday party, he puts it on, walks away, and takes it off with a smile as he considers how cute the prank he pulled on his guests was. Of course Bilbo is very "appreciative" of his ring and would rather keep it than lose it, but certainly no signs at all of anything evil directly related to the ring had emerged.

When Frodo first puts on the ring, everything is different. It is not just a matter of invisibility anymore. The eye of Sauron first appears. The mention of the Nazgul's ability to be drawn towards the ring comes along. It becomes a state of being you wouldn't find so cute. Right away you can tell this is not a happy, wonderful ring (even had Gandalf not warned you about it's powers). Frodo did not get even one use of his ring in the manner Bilbo did (that is to say, to pull a prank with no regrets).

What is this relationship about? Is it simply because Sauron became aware of the rings condition/location? Or was Bilbo somehow immune to these affects? 

If this was explained, I missed it. Unless it is simply attributed to the fact that Sauron had begun his work again recently, and was "out of service" during Bilbo's/Gollum's ownerships, how was this explained away when first brought along? And if Sauron was "out of service" during those years, how did he return? I understand Sauron was "killed", but if there was an energy connected to the ring, why was it not there all the time?

Why could the Nazgul not be attracted to the ring when Bilbo wore it before Gollum told them "Shire, Baggins"?

Bilbo gets all the fun (and gold, hehe).


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## HLGStrider (Nov 6, 2002)

In agreement with Smeagol. 

The first twenty years Frodo had the ring, it was fairly harmless, though he didn't really use it. He took Gandalf's advice and I'm not sure if he used it a few times or not much. Either way it wasn't very potent. Then, as Smeagol says, things started to happen. The Nazgul weren't released for awhile. 

Frodo does use it almost as a prank in the House of Bombadil without any obvious side effects. This is because the Nazgul are distant and Bombadil gives him protection. On Weathertop he is in close contact with the Nazgul so that is bad for him. In the Prancing Pony it does draw the Nazgul, but I am guessing that they were not far away. On Amon Hen the hill itself draws him closer to Sauron because it is all and all a powerful hill. Throughout the book he is going closer and closer to Sauron who is growing greater and greater. Hence it gets worse. Bilbo didn't have these problems. 

(Just conjecturing the knife in his shoulder on WT might also make things worse... though I have never seen it documented).


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## Walter (Nov 6, 2002)

El-ahrairah, 

Elgee and Smeagol both gave good explanations (with Smeagol it's no surprise, the somewhat unpleasant memories of Sauron's hospitality in Mordor sure left some traces behind, so that the memory of the events of that time is still vivid and fresh ). However, if you are interested in a little more background information about the events going on by the time Frodo set out for his quest, you could read _The Hunt for the Ring_ in the _Unfinished Tales_ if you can get hold of a copy...

But as you correctly mention by the time the Hobbit was written, Tolkien had no idea he would write something like the LotR at all. So, when Bilbo found the ring it was no more than a token of the storyline for the Hobbit (intentionally a childrens book) very similar to the magic-hats dwarfs in nordic or german mythology often had. And when Tolkien began to write a sequel of the Hobbit things had not yet changed. Its first chapter, _A Long Expected Party_ has been written early in 1938, (note: The first part of _The Lord of the Rings_ was first published 1954!) and the story went on as another Hobbit-adventure, the ring was not given all that much further thought and finally Tolkien lost interest in it until at some point he began to integrate his story into the mythology he had been working on for some 20 years by that time. It was only then that the ring - as it is presented in the LotR - got its powers...


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## Leto (Nov 6, 2002)

For the record...Frodo did not see the 'eye' when he first put on the ring (in Bree). He 'felt' an eye searching for him, when he was on Amon Hen, looking towards Mordor with the ring on. Bilbo never knew the peril he was in whenever he used the ring...Frodo was poignently aware of the danger, and so would have had a different attitude about it. Also, while the Nazgul were hunting him, their presence drew out the ring's 'will', which wanted to be revealed, so Frodo had to fight putting it on. (He finally gave in on Weathertop, with the witch king there). Sam used the ring, even in Mordor. He did not see the 'eye', but felt the searching presence. He wore it for quite some time, to sneak into Cirith Ungol, without Nazgul swooping down on him out of nowhere.
Again, people's perceptions about these things are influenced by the movie too heavily, I believe. There was always the same amount of danger to wearing the ring...though it never 'hurt' the bearer, except psychologically. Frodo was more aware of the danger, made even more poignient by the presence of the Nazgul. Bilbo never knew his danger, was never in the presence of Nazgul, (and neither was gollum for that matter)...so never had a problem using it for tricks.


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## Húrin Thalion (Nov 6, 2002)

When Frodo was in sight of Orodruin were it was made he said that he saw a wheel of fire before him. Anyone who might know what that is? I don't think it's the eye but I've gotta check that up.

Elen


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## Walter (Nov 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Smeagol _
> I respectfully dissent.
> You folks always discuss the circumstances of Tolkien's writing the books instead of explaining things from within the story. Although between the Hobbit and LOTR lay almost 20 years, Tolkien could still have adapted the powers of the Ring in LOTR to match the Hobbit, but he did not. So the only explanation for the evolvement of the Ring's effects should be the changing condition of its maker and master, and the presence of his servants.


Since I'm the only one on this thread who did explain the circumstances under which the books were written, you must be referring to my post. Though, I'm not quite sure what you mean, because I did not do that _instead_ of referring to explanations from within the story but rather *as well as* referring to circumstancial explanations.

Of course it can be interesting and fun to deduct - or at times just speculate about - certain causal connections from within the story and maybe muse whether Tolkien put them in occasionally or intentionally.

But indeed I have a certain tendency to look at the circumstances under which something was written, as well as at the develompent (e.g comparing it with previous drafts) it took within the story. I feel this is a good approach, for it helps me to gain a better understanding why Tolkien developed things the way he did. And, in some cases, this provides me with better - or IMO more plausible - or, in other cases, at least additional explanations. 

But I seldom go as far as to state that the way how I approach the story or the explanation I give can be _the only explanation_...


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## El-ahrairah (Nov 7, 2002)

Thank you.

I guess I am getting influenced by Hollywood more than I should. It makes sense that, as Frodo’s distance to Mordor erodes, the effects will change. I will buy that for a dollar. Bilbo was not near Mordor his whole life. I wish that PJ had put a min or two into the movie to help explain that. If you look at the movie with no understanding, it is a very confusing detail. I know the time frame from when Bilbo left to when Frodo left the Shire seems to be only days in the movie, when in fact it was years, but I had forgotten the details of the effects of the ring on Frodo and took it that the movie was being honest (the scene in the Prancing Pony I will read again this weekend). The simple detail of showing Frodo playing with the ring in jest would have helped (Though I don’t remember this detail from the book either, what chapter?). 

Oh well, perhaps the extended version many of us will get next Tuesday will have this, probably not. I understand when movies have to take certain parts of a story and leave them out due to time constraints, but when you bother to keep something in, don’t skimp on it. One min of screen time could have explained what I hope many people found confusing (I don’t want to be the only one). Thanks again. 

BTW, anyone see the previews for next week’s SouthPark. HeHe, I had to laugh. I am not a fanatic, but I certainly agree.


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## HLGStrider (Nov 7, 2002)

I believe the chapter is "In the House of Tom Bombadil." 

Other than that they don't really cover his usage of it for fun... or say that he did. It would've been in the long period that isn't discussed in detail or put into the movie in between getting the ring and finding out about it. However, that he kept it on a chain on his person suggests that he probably used it in that time.


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