# Aldarion or Erendis: who was to blame?



## Inderjit S (Aug 4, 2003)

*Aldaion or Erendis: who was to blame?*

So who do you think was to blame for their marriage falling apart? Nuneth tells her daughter, that she even at a young age wanted 'all or nothing' and she doesn't understand that Men had other purposes apart from their family and Aladrion’s obsession with the sea was something that went beyond love of the sea-wind or sailing or whatnot, but it was his 'fate' in essence to this, as we see later his setting up of good Numenorean relations with Lindon, this allowing for Tar-Ministar's army under command of Ciryatur to arrive in the knick of time, and the 'law' passed saying that the daughters could become the heir of the throne, and if they wish pass the opportunity up (As did Tar-Anarion's daughters) had far-reaching consequences climaxing with Ar-Pharazons forceful marriage Tar-Miriel (Though as we later see in _Peoples of Middle-Earth_ Tolkien was devising a story in which they both loved each other).

So, should Aldarion have ceased his voyages after he was married? Or kept his word and come back in two years rather then five, on his first journey after marriage, even though Gil-Galad needed his help? Was he too proud and unwilling to tame, as Erendis thought? Shouldn’t he have obeyed the wishes of his father more? Should he have apologised, as Erendis wished when he visited Erendis after breaking his promise instead of just staying the night and going to visit his friend Hallatan? Or what about the rumour that after Ancalime's departure with Zamin to a quiet corner of Hallatan's land, both Erendis and Aldarion were angered, but Erendis’s attempt at reconciliation between the two was rejected by Aldarion? (Of course this was just a rumour, not fact, there was another version of how the two interpreted the event)

Or was it the fault of Erendis? Should she have accepted her role like a good woman. (Pfft, yeah right) Should she have been a little warmer in her reception of Aldarion or should she have accepted his overtures whenever he asked for her hand in marriage instead of delaying for 12 years and increasing the sea-lust and shortening of the time they had together, since her lifespan was short compared to his though she was a descendant of house of Beor? 

What about Tar-Meneldurs forcefulness in making Aldarion getting married? Shouldn’t he have understood, Aladrion's fascination with the sea since he had one with the stars, but then again he could argue that as a king he fulfilled his obligation and moved from his star-gazing tower Forostar, to the kings house in Armenelos, but there is a marked difference between star-gazing as a hobby and being a mariner. Or his 'forcing' of Aldarion to bend to his will when this simply encouraged the independent-minded Aldarion to disobey him. Or him allowing for Aldarion to be King, whilst he was in full vigour, and a decision that the whole council, including Valandil opposed. (Though Hallatan's support in this matter, in which he was alone for Aldarion was of a personal reverence, but one can argue that none of the lords knew why he was doing this, because he wanted Aldarion to decided what to do with the M-E issues, should they interrupt their peace for Gil-Galad, or can this inactive stance or inability to decide be seen as a weakness of the king?)


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## Eriol (Aug 4, 2003)

I think they were both to blame. Neither truly loved the other, they wanted the other to fulfill some need in themselves. That's quite clear (in my opinion) in the case of Erendis, but Aldarion also exhibits it.

If they loved each other, they would both be falling upon each other to please the other, instead of playing the boring mind games. 

"Both".


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## Turin (Aug 4, 2003)

I hate that part of UT, anyway I think Erendis is to blame, I can't remember why thats just what I thought when I read the book.


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## Feanorian (Aug 4, 2003)

No, Erendis was not to blame. A man cannot have two mistresses and even the most enchanting women cannot take away a mans love for the sea. 

Aldarion is not to blame either. Like I said he cannot love them equally and Erendis could not take that.

It was a stupid marriage to being with. It possibly could have worked had it happened much sooner..instead they waited and Aldarion's love and passion grew for the ocean while his love for Erendis shrunk.


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## Eriol (Aug 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Feanorian _
> *
> It was a stupid marriage to being with. It possibly could have worked had it happened much sooner..instead they waited and Aldarion's love and passion grew for the ocean while his love for Erendis shrunk. *



If it was a stupid marriage to begin with, doesn't it stand to reason that they should not have married?



Of course, from hindsight, we see that this story had a lot of repercussions in 2nd Age history. But this does not change the fact that it was a stupid marriage to begin with; and that the persons to blame for the failure of the marriage are the two of them.


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## Ravenna (Aug 6, 2003)

I went for both equally. 

I'm not sure that the marriage itself was stupid. They obviously did love each other initially, but to quote the old saw 'Love is blind'.

Erendis knew full well about Aldarion's love for the sea and ships, but felt she could change him, and he in turn, well to put it frankly, was a bit of a chauvinist, expecting 'the little woman' to put up with his wanderings and wait quietly at home for him to deign to return.

Neither was prepared to compromise. Ok you can argue that at times Aldarion had vital things to do, but not always.
Both were also incredibly stubborn. refusing to bend even a little bit, and therefore, in the end both broke. LIkewise both seem to me to be rather immature, even towards the end of their lives, they both sulk wonderfully, although I have to say Erendis takes her petulance rather too far in attempting to turn her daughter into a man-hater.

Aldarion's father I suppose is not entirely blameless, but remember, although anxious for his son to marry in order to continue the line of Kings, as far as I recall, he left the choice of wife up to his son, (it's quite a while since I read it, so I may be wrong here).


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## Beleg (Aug 7, 2003)

There is a debate somewhere here...

Aldarion vs. Erendis Debate


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## Feanorian (Aug 7, 2003)

> Of course, from hindsight, we see that this story had a lot of repercussions in 2nd Age history. But this does not change the fact that it was a stupid marriage to begin with; and that the persons to blame for the failure of the marriage are the two of them.



Yes, your right...but if they werent married it wouldnt be much of a story now would it? 

Very interesting debate thank you Beleg for posting it.


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## Lhunithiliel (Aug 7, 2003)

At least Aldarion tried!!!!

Giving up (although temporarily) his dreams and his ambitions and his passion...for the sake of the family, for the sake of giving a chance to their complicated relations...

At least he tried!!!

Did Erendis do the same? No! Too much pride and vanity! "All or nothing" - this was she! This could never be a true love...

But.. as Beleg said, read that debate if you're interested to know mine and Beleg's views on all that!


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## Ithrynluin (Aug 17, 2003)

They should never have got married in the first place. Certainly not to each other, and maybe not at all. They were fundamentally different people and both would have been happier if they loved someone more like themselves. Aldarion was enamoured of the Sea, and Erendis with the trees and pastures of Numenor. It's like if Yavanna and Ulmo were to be married - how could they ever be happy together?  For Aldarion is almost like Ulmo - he feels so at ease on the waves that he is reluctant to set foot on land, save at the direst need.

I vote that they are both to blame!


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