# Aule and Yavanna. . .



## HLGStrider (Sep 4, 2003)

I am rereading the Sil to try and refresh my fading memory, and I am thouroughly enjoying it. I'm just before the Coming of the Elves bit.

This isn't really a discussion thread, it's a "Isn't this so Great" thread, and I know those don't always do very well. . .but bear with me.

All right, Yavanna is in mourning after Aule makes the dwarves. 
"They will delve in the earth, and the things that grow and live upon the earth they will not heed. Many a tree shall feel the bite of their irons without pity." 
And Aule says, "Well, yeah, honey. They will." 

And she bursts into tears and runs home to her mother. . .well, not quite. . .
Anyway, Yavanna goes to Manwe who hears from Eru and she is comforted by the thought that her trees will have shepherds, and goes to tell Aule so.

"Eru is bountiful," she said. "Now let they children beware! For there shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril."
"Nonetheless, they will have need of wood," said Aule, and he went on with his smith-work.

Something about that passage struck me in two ways. For one, I loved Aule's reply. It was so concise and so perfect. 
For the second, it was so Husband and Wifeish. This whole section is husband and wifeish. Of course, they are married, but here they are very much like the human idea of opposites attracting. . .

It was so funny to me. . .and I had to post about it because I just had to.
Love,
Elgee


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## Manveru (Sep 4, 2003)

Sounds like a nice couple


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## HLGStrider (Sep 4, 2003)

Yes, I'm sure they gave lovely dinner parties. . .

ACK! I try to be serious and literary and here I am, falling into my old ways. 

It's your fault, Manveru! It's all your fault!

Elgee goes away to sulk.


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## Celebthôl (Sep 4, 2003)

How is it Husbandy to make you Wifey cry? I could never do that to my wife 

And what does "literary" mean?


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## Lantarion (Sep 4, 2003)

Oh I'm sure you know what it means Thôl..  (If not, try looking it up.. )

Elgee I love Aulë's reply as well! So aloof, so simple.. How can you argue with reasoning like that?


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## HLGStrider (Sep 4, 2003)

She didn't cry about Aule's answer. She cried that trees would die. . .he was just stating truth. . .it wouldn't be husbandy to lie.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 5, 2003)

I've never found their relationship to be very deep and meaningful. They are perfect opposites and each strives towards something completely different. I don't see understanding between them.

A similar issue has been discussed here already. See question #8.


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## Lantarion (Sep 5, 2003)

It's true that Tolkien was not very apt at all at protraying romantic relationships; even Aragorn and Arwen's love seems scant and bare the way Tolkien describes their interaction with each other, at least in my opinion. But in the case of Aulë and Yavanna it doesn't really matter, because gods are notoriously impersonal and are portrayed with a language which is poorly suited for translating love into speech. I still like to think like Elgee that the two Valar love each another very much.


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## HLGStrider (Sep 5, 2003)

> They are perfect opposites and each strives towards something completely different. I don't see understanding between them.



I think that's what makes them so romantic. They are so different, but I see that they do understand each other. They are both striving towards the good of Ea and to make beautiful things while serving Eru.

I also like the scantness in that it allows me to fill in details the way I like them.


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## Inderjit S (Sep 6, 2003)

Tolkien's viewpoint on love within M-E;



> In my experience feelings and decisions ripen very quickly (as measured by mere 'clock-time', which is actually not justly applicable) in periods of great stress, and especially under the expectation of imminent death. And I do not think that persons of high estate and breeding need all the petty fencing and approaches in matters of 'love'. This tale does not deal with a period of 'Courtly Love' and its pretences; but with a culture more primitive (sc. less corrupt) and nobler.


 _Letter #244_ 

Of course this is delaing with Aragorn, Faramir and Eowyn, but it gives an insight on his views on 'love' within M-E. Aule and Yavanna no doubt *loved* each other, but their relationship was not a 'platonic' one in the sense of say, Manwe and Yavanna, they loved each other in the sense that they could be considered 'husband and wife' not 'just friends' even though the Valar wouldn't have had a 'normal' relationship in the sense that the Incarnates would. (i.e the idea of Valarin procreation was dropped in the course of writing the Annals of Aman.)


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