# Who was older?



## jacana (Feb 24, 2010)

Hi Guys, just a quickie...

Who was Older, Galadriel or Cirdan? I was always under the impression that Galadriel was


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## Elthir (Feb 24, 2010)

Hi. It seems Círdan was, as Galadriel was born in Aman, and Círdan is noted as being around before the Noldor passed Over Sea (some later to return).


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## jacana (Feb 24, 2010)

thank you!


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## ltnjmy (Feb 25, 2010)

Was Celeborn older than Galadriel ?

I think so  - wasn't he one of the Teleri who remained in Beleriand looking for Thingol ??


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## Elthir (Feb 25, 2010)

Not much is known of Celeborn in the early days. He was the grandson of Thingol's brother (not Olwe, another brother).

In the late 'Telerin version' -- which conflicts with already published material -- Galadriel meets Celeborn in Swanhaven, and here he is the grandson of Olwe, which makes him Galadriel's first cousin.

In _The_ _Silmarillion,_ Christopher Tolkien even changed a line describing the relationship between Galadriel and Melian to refer rather to Celeborn. Just for fun (and reference maybe), and keeping in mind that for the following dates (before the switch to Sun Years), each 'year' really lasted 9.582 Sun Years. 

1362 Galadriel born in Aman

while over in Beleriand

1300 Menegroth is begun

After 1500 we move to Sun Years

52 Finrod and Galadriel are the guests of King Thingol.


So there are plenty of years between Galadriel's birth and her coming to Doriath, but we do not know when Celeborn was born. In _The Lord of the Rings_ Galadriel says that Celeborn has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn.


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## Alcuin (Mar 8, 2010)

_Peoples of Middle-earth_ has an essay on Círdan in the section “Last Writings”. He was a kinsman of Elwë and Olwë, the leader of the Teleri who stayed in Middle-earth to search for Elwë when Elwë fell in love with Melian, and the noblest of those Teleri – later known as Sindar – who stayed behind. His original name (“according to Pengolod,” the Elvish historian) was _Nöwë_, which is reminiscent of the name “_Noah_” of the Flood story in Genesis in the Bible. Tolkien says that he was very tall, “his beard was long, and he was grey and old”. And Elves did grow beards, but only late in life. For an Elf to look “grey and old,” Círdan must have been very old indeed!


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## Bucky (Jul 24, 2010)

Galin:

You need to choose your colors that you print in more carefully.....

I can't read half your posts!


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## Elthir (Jul 25, 2010)

Hmm, as this site allows various background colours, that's possibly a factor.

But half is half good, anyway


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