# Mistake??



## Rohansangel (Mar 30, 2002)

*Is this a mistake I see?*

OK, when Gollum asks who Bilbo is, Bilbo says: "I am Mr. Bilbo Baggins. I have lost the dwarves and I have lost the wizard, and I don't know where I am; and I don't want to know, if only I could get away." NOTICE: Bilbo NEVER says he is from the Shire ... But later on in Lord of the Rings, Gollum says that Bilbo told him that he was from the Shire. Is this a mistake I see?!?!

~The Angel of Rohan


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 30, 2002)

I don't think so, I believe that somewhere in there, there is a mentioning between bilbo and gollum that bilbo is from the shire....But not sure, I will consult my book tonight You like finding mistakes don't you?


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## Rohansangel (Mar 30, 2002)

Well I can't help it ... You notice things ...


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## Rohansangel (Mar 30, 2002)

I just checked and nowhere did Bilbo even mention the Shire ... But Tolkien doesn't make mistakes! This cannot be! I'm going to research it. 


~The Angel of Rohan


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 30, 2002)

did you check in the smaller books, A Hobbits encounter with Gollum? or the questions of a medelsome hobbit?? it may be there too and be fair game to put into the Hobbit.


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## Bill the Pony (Mar 30, 2002)

Rohansangel, I think you're right that the Shire is not mentioned in the hobbit. (In fact, I could not find it anywhere in the book. Do you think the name was not invented back then?) But where does it say Gollum learned from Bilbo where he was from? In 'a shadow from the past' Gandalf says:



> What is more, he knew where he came from.’
> ‘But how did he find that out?’ asked Frodo.
> ‘Well, as for the name, Bilbo very foolishly told Gollum himself; and after that it would not be difficult to discover his country, once Gollum came out.
> <snip>
> But from hints dropped among the snarls I even gathered that his padding feet had taken him at last to Esgaroth, and even to the streets of Dale, listening secretly and peering. Well, the news of the great events went far and wide in Wilderland, and many had heard Bilbo’s name and knew where he came from. We had made no secret of our return journey to his home in the West. Gollum’s sharp ears would soon learn what he wanted.


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## ReadWryt (Mar 30, 2002)

Yep, apparently so. I guess that even though creating whole languages, both written and spoken, as well as incorperating the Hobbit into the timeline of the pre-existing Silmarillion, an entire mythical pre-history for the planet and all of mankind, he missed a thing or two along the way...


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## LadyGaladriel (Mar 31, 2002)

I think Sauron pretty much knew where evryone lived. 
when saying "Hobbit s" he clicked that it must be the shire


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## Greenwood (Mar 31, 2002)

There is no mistake. In The Hobbit Bilbo only tells Gollum his name (Bilbo Baggins). In The Shadow of the Past chapter in FOTR Gandalf says that Bilbo foolishly told Gollum his name. Gandalf does not say that Bilbo told Gollum where he came from. Gandalf says that Gollum eventually came out from under the mountains and found his way to Esgaroth on Long Lake and that there it was not hard for Gollum to find out where Bilbo came from since he was well known after the Battle of Five Armies.


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## Dhôn-Buri-Dhôn (Mar 31, 2002)

Actually, Gandalf states (at the CoE?) that Sauron learned two things from Gollum: 'Baggins' and 'Shire'.

It never occurred to me to check whether Bilbo ever told Gollum where he lived. Good catch, Rohansangel!

Could Gollum have learned where Hobbits lived after leaving the Misty Mountain caverns?


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## Nicholas Blake (Mar 31, 2002)

Donnie B.- Yep, Greenwood just confirmed that...


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## Beorn (Mar 31, 2002)

Well, actually, Shire is not mentioned a single time in the entire Hobbit. I searched for it in my computer copy...

I still think this could be an error. All that is said in by the Long Lake was in the book, except for perhaps when it said the boats were prepared. I doubt a hobbit would've made the mistake of saying, "We are from the Shire" when only one of them was.


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## Goro Shimura (Mar 31, 2002)

Maybe Bilbo left that bit of dialog out of _There and Back Again_...


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## legoman (Mar 31, 2002)

Now then why are there two threads on exactly the same subject, surely wasting the moderators memroy space here, you should know better than that rohansangel.
Also this has been answered via the art of book quoting in 'the hobbit' forum.


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## Rohansangel (Mar 31, 2002)

Yea, the truest of true Tolkien fans could say, NO, TOLKIEN didn't make a mistake, it was BILBO'S fault ... But Tolkien could have done it on purpose, I guess it's possible that he wanted it that way. But somehow, I think he just overlooked it.
The double posting was actually accidental, Legoman ... 

~The Angel of Rohan


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## Anarchist (Mar 31, 2002)

I believe that either Gollum found out where Bilbo lived, or Sauron easily guessed it because most Hobbits live in the Shire.


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## Goro Shimura (Mar 31, 2002)

Gollum might not have said "Baggins... Shire..." the way the movie portrays.

Sauron might have found out about the Shire from the men at Laketown...


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## Gary Gamgee (Mar 31, 2002)

No gollum does say baggins shire in CoE as has already been said, so this was probably a mistake or perhaps smeagol after all being a hobbit remembered where bilbo's kind went.


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## Goro Shimura (Mar 31, 2002)

Aha!

Maybe Gollum found out about the Shire from the men at Lake-town!

Blbo made no secret of where he was going...


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## Rohansangel (Mar 31, 2002)

That was already said, Goroshimura. But whatever.
How did Sauron know that Bilbo was a hobbit? 

~The Angel of Rohan


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## Elfarmari (Mar 31, 2002)

I would guess that Gollum knew Bilbo was a hobbit. AFter living in the dark for so long,I am sure he could see Bilbo quite clearly. As has been said, Gollum was once a hobbit (or at least related to hobbits), and would not find it hard to recognize. Once out of the mountain, Gollum could find where hobbits lived.


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## Rohansangel (Mar 31, 2002)

That's a good observation, Elfarmari. Thanks!

~The Angel of Rohan


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## Dhôn-Buri-Dhôn (Mar 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gary Gamgee _
> *No gollum does say baggins shire in CoE as has already been said... *



I found the scene where Gandalf talks about Gollum's visit to Mordor. It's not at the CoE at all, but earlier, in "The Shadow of the Past".

And it's not really as straightforward as I remembered. Gandalf does say, 'Yes, alas! Through him [Gollum] the Enemy has learned that the One has been found again... And he has at last heard, I think, of _hobbits_ and _the Shire_. 

'The Shire -- he may be seeking for it now, if he has not already found out where it lies. Indeed, Frodo, I fear that he may even think that the long-unnoticed name of _Baggins_ has become important.'

So Gandalf doesn't come right out and say that Gollum told Sauron about the Shire and Bilbo. It's strongly implied, but it leaves room for the possibility that Sauron got some of that information in other ways.


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## shadowfax_g (Mar 31, 2002)

Gollum did not head for The Shire directly from Misty Mountains but traced Bilbos journey first. So I think he did not know where Bilbo Baggins was from but learned it on his way. I reckon Baggins were pretty famous family so easy to find.


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## Gary Gamgee (Apr 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Donnie B. _
> *
> 
> I found the scene where Gandalf talks about Gollum's visit to Mordor. It's not at the CoE at all, but earlier, in "The Shadow of the Past".
> ...



I stand corrected. Bows respectfully. I shall remember to find my quotes first b4 i start posting.

GGG


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## Goro Shimura (Apr 2, 2002)

In the Unfinished Tales, Gollum is so indomitable that even Sauron can't get any information out of him, practically!

Gollum actually deceives Sauron into thinking that the Shire is near his old Stoor settlement where his grandmother lived.... This delays the ringwraiths from coming to the Shire.


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## Hanne (Apr 4, 2002)

Bilbo didn't told it to Gollum but Golum found it out himself.Then Gollum told it to Sauron so Sauron didn't had to know anything about Bilbo,whether he was a hobbit or so.He just had to know were the Shire lies.


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## Rohansangel (Apr 4, 2002)

OK, OK! I get it!


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## Anamatar IV (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: Is this a mistake I see?*



> _Originally posted by Rohansangel _
> *OK, when Gollum asks who Bilbo is, Bilbo says: "I am Mr. Bilbo Baggins. I have lost the dwarves and I have lost the wizard, and I don't know where I am; and I don't want to know, if only I could get away." NOTICE: Bilbo NEVER says he is from the Shire ... But later on in Lord of the Rings, Gollum says that Bilbo told him that he was from the Shire. Is this a mistake I see?!?!
> 
> ~The Angel of Rohan *



my guess:
Gollum was a hobbit am i wrong? Seeing a hobbi as he was once might have triggered a memory of where he lived.


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## Beorn (Apr 6, 2002)

But Gollum lived by the Anduin (somewhere in the North), not in the Shire.


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## Anamatar IV (Apr 6, 2002)

ive checked out tons of sites for this. most say it was a mistake, some say what i said, others say that before he got captured into mordor he asked some1 for directions to "hobbit land"


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## Goro Shimura (Apr 7, 2002)

Check the sites...

But also check _Unfinished Tales!_

There's some great stuff in there!


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## Rohansangel (Apr 7, 2002)

If I remember correctly, Gandalf also said that Gollum was a hobbit-LIKE creature, not an actual hobbit ... Plus he lived by the Anduin near, I'm assuming, his mountain that he goes to when he becomes Gollum. So he was not an actual hobbit, prolly he was closely related, and also he lived somewhere far from the Shire.

~The Angel of Rohan


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## Greenleaf (Apr 7, 2002)

I don’t know if you all have already hit this point, but I thought that maybe he was just familiar with were hobbits come from. And maybe once his "precious" was gone he might have done some asking around to find out were hobbits come from. Just a thought


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## Goro Shimura (Apr 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rohansangel _
> *If I remember correctly, Gandalf also said that Gollum was a hobbit-LIKE creature, not an actual hobbit ... Plus he lived by the Anduin near, I'm assuming, his mountain that he goes to when he becomes Gollum. So he was not an actual hobbit, prolly he was closely related, and also he lived somewhere far from the Shire.
> 
> ~The Angel of Rohan *



Check the appendices for that. In the timeline it refers to Smeagol and Deagol as "Stoors."

Gollum _was_ a hobbit!


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## Rohansangel (Apr 8, 2002)

*bows humbly* I stand corrected. Thank you Goroshimura.


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