# What Was Frodo "Broken Down" Into?



## frodolives7601 (Aug 4, 2020)

I remember reading years ago that Tolkien once described Frodo as a hobbit who was broken down by his experiences into "something else." I never could find a reference identifying what the "something else" was. Has anyone ever come across it?


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## Alcuin (Aug 5, 2020)

I think your reference is to _Letters of JRR Tolkien_, _Letter_ 151:

Frodo is not intended to be another Bilbo. Though his opening style is not wholly un-kin. But he is rather a study of a hobbit broken by a burden of fear and horror — broken down, and in the end made into something quite different. None of the hobbits come out of it in pure Shire-fashion.
​I don’t know into what Tolkien envisioned Frodo had “broken down”; however, he uses the phrase “broken down” again in _Letter_ 181, in which he remarks, 

The Quest was bound to fail as a piece of world-plan, and also was bound to end in disaster as the story of humble Frodo’s … sanctification. … He “apostatized” – and I have had one savage letter, crying out that he sh[oul]d have been executed as a traitor, not honored. … I did not foresee that before the tale was published we should enter a dark age in which the technique of torture and disruption of personality would rival that of Mordor and the Ring and present us with the practical problem of honest men of good will broken down into apostates and traitors.
​Perhaps that is helpful.


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## frodolives7601 (Aug 5, 2020)

Alcuin said:


> I think your reference is to _Letters of JRR Tolkien_, _Letter_ 151:
> ​​Frodo is not intended to be another Bilbo. Though his opening style is not wholly un-kin. But he is rather a study of a hobbit broken by a burden of fear and horror — broken down, and in the end made into something quite different. None of the hobbits come out of it in pure Shire-fashion.​​​I don’t know into what Tolkien envisioned Frodo had “broken down”; however, he uses the phrase “broken down” again in _Letter_ 181, in which he remarks,
> ​​The Quest was bound to fail as a piece of world-plan, and also was bound to end in disaster as the story of humble Frodo’s … sanctification. … He “apostatized” – and I have had one savage letter, crying out that he sh[oul]d have been executed as a traitor, not honored. … I did not foresee that before the tale was published we should enter a dark age in which the technique of torture and disruption of personality would rival that of Mordor and the Ring and present us with the practical problem of honest men of good will broken down into apostates and traitors.​​​Perhaps that is helpful.


This is fascinating. Thank you so much, Alcuin! You know what I just remembered, too, and looked up, is something Gandalf says to himself in _FOTR_, in "Many Meetings," as he looks upon Frodo: 

"He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can."

Maybe that is Gandalf's answer to the "something quite different" riddle. I do love that last line.

I'm going to give a new twist to this question. Originally, I was curious about what Tolkien thought Frodo had been "broken down" into. Now, I'd like to know what you, as readers, think. Based on your interpretation of Frodo, what do you believe his transformation was? What was the "something quite different" that he became?


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## Alcuin (Aug 14, 2020)

Tolkien referred to Frodo’s change as an “ennobling” and as “sanctification”. In other words, he became a much greater person, as Saruman observed after trying to murder him at Bag End near the end of the story. But in becoming a much greater person, and in becoming “sainted”, as we would say in English, Frodo lost, or shed, many of his former attributes. He could not fight the ruffians, for instance, and though he saved the Shire for others, he lost it for himself; and he was severely wounded physically, emotionally, and even spiritually in ways that could not be healed in Middle-earth.


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## frodolives7601 (Aug 14, 2020)

Alcuin said:


> Tolkien referred to Frodo’s change as an “ennobling” and as “sanctification”. In other words, he became a much greater person, as Saruman observed after trying to murder him at Bag End near the end of the story. But in becoming a much greater person, and in becoming “sainted”, as we would say in English, Frodo lost, or shed, many of his former attributes. He could not fight the ruffians, for instance, and though he saved the Shire for others, he lost it for himself; and he was severely wounded physically, emotionally, and even spiritually in ways that could not be healed in Middle-earth.


Thanks, Alcuin. This is a good summing-up of how he is transformed. And it seems to fit with the "glass filled with a clear light" quote as well. I see where the reference to "sanctification" appears in Letter 181 as you quoted above. Just curious--does the "ennobling" reference come from that same letter? I don't want to make you go digging through a bunch of stuff, so if it's from somewhere else and isn't readily available, no worries.


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## Alcuin (Aug 15, 2020)

frodolives7601 said:


> I see where the reference to "sanctification" appears in Letter 181 as you quoted above. Just curious--does the "ennobling" reference come from that same letter?


Yes, since you gave me the number of the Letter. Tolkien phrases it as,
the story of humble Frodo's development to the “noble”, his sanctification.​And he ends the letter by commenting on the romance of Arwen and Aragorn, placed in the Appendices,
because it could not be worked into the main narrative without destroying its structure: which is … a study of the ennoblement (or sanctification) of the humble.​


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## frodolives7601 (Aug 15, 2020)

Alcuin said:


> Yes, since you gave me the number of the Letter. Tolkien phrases it as,
> ​the story of humble Frodo's development to the “noble”, his sanctification.​​And he ends the letter by commenting on the romance of Arwen and Aragorn, placed in the Appendices,
> ​because it could not be worked into the main narrative without destroying its structure: which is … a study of the ennoblement (or sanctification) of the humble.​


That is way cool. Thank you for looking this up, Alcuin. I very much appreciate all your input on this question! I had perused a library copy of the _Letters_ years ago, but I think I will look into buying one at some point. This is what I love about Tolkien--he is endlessly fascinating!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 16, 2020)

It was reprinted in paperback when the movies came out, so may not be as difficult to get hold of as the original hardback.

I bought my own copy of the hardback many years ago, from a stack of them on a remainders table; price: one dollar. Now I wish I'd bought the whole stack, to distribute to TTF friends here!


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## frodolives7601 (Aug 16, 2020)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> It was reprinted in paperback when the movies came out, so may not be as difficult to get hold of as the original hardback.
> 
> I bought my own copy of the hardback many years ago, from a stack of them on a remainders table; price: one dollar. Now I wish I'd bought the whole stack, to distribute to TTF friends here!


One dollar! Good deal!


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## Olorgando (Aug 16, 2020)

"Letters" is a source of a surprising amount of detail about LoTR.
One gem is letter 214, a draft to one A.C. Nunn from probably late 1958 to early 1959, which runs to almost 8 pages in my 1990 paperback reprint. One could subtitle it "Laws and Customs among the Hobbits", almost a companion piece to "Laws and Customs among the Eldar" published in Volume 10 of HoMe "Morgoth's Ring".
Besides looking for quotes countless times, I think I've read it cover-to-cover at least three times.


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## frodolives7601 (Aug 16, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> "Letters" is a source of a surprising amount of detail about LoTR.
> One gem is letter 214, a draft to one A.C. Nunn from probably late 1958 to early 1959, which runs to almost 8 pages in my 1990 paperback reprint. One could subtitle it "Laws and Customs among the Hobbits", almost a companion piece to "Laws and Customs among the Eldar" published in Volume 10 of HoMe "Morgoth's Ring".
> Besides looking for quotes countless times, I think I've read it cover-to-cover at least three times.


That sounds fascinating! I'll have to check that letter out when I get my copy.


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