# Numenor marine top commandos vs Gondolin's Hammer of Wrath heavy infantry, who will win?



## Hisoka Morrow (Sep 26, 2020)

The condition is both side will fight with only bare hands, with every methods they can use, including kicking private parts. No rules, keep fighting till one of them drop.

P.S. Hammer of Wrath was described to have the best morale, thus their's melee combat ability might be the best among all Gondolin.


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## Angelimir (Oct 6, 2020)

I would have to say Gondolin’s infantry if only because those Elves were of the first age and it seems a natural progression in Tolkien writing that with the passing of time, things only get worse. Not that the Numenorean Army would have just folded up and lost. Imagine 250 thousand men all 6’8 to 8’0, in Armor, with long swords, throwing spears, gigantic shields, and steel arrows. And all their men have excellent aim. Gondolin I believe had a force of 10 thousand. So now that I’m actually thinking about it. If Numenor could use their entire Army at their height of power. Numenor all the way.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Oct 24, 2020)

Hmmm....=''=...Yet it's obvious the 2nd Age is much more optimistic than the 1st Age for Free People. For instance, the only 1 Super Power was among the Dark Side, however, it reversed during the 2nd Age, at least during the formerly half period.
In addition, I got several data to discuss XD(seriously)
These're the elements to support the Numenor.
1. Isuildur's guards reach a kill ratio of more than 1:5 during the Gladden field's accident.
2. Isuildur's guards were in the lower tactical position during the Gladden field's accident.
3. During the battle of Gwaloth, the Numenor MC had the inferior tactical position as a attacker in a amphibious battle.

These're the conditions support Gondolin's
1. The Gondolin's whole forces had met the foes much more stronger and intact than the Numenor according to everything we certainly had known already, apart from considering surrounding's element such as terrain and so on.
2. The Gondolin's were able to kill much higher valuable military targets such as Balrogs, Dragons, and so on.

These're points can be under debate.
1. Isuildur's guards might be nothing but mostly rookies in spite of their hard-training, due to the possible total annihilation of it's veteran personnel during War of Last Alliance, otherwise Isuildur won't be in a bloody hell that he even needs to use a weapons's shards.
2. During the battle of Gondolin, both side got heavy fire-power support.
3. Maybe Sauron's forces got better equipment and weapons than Morgoth.

Well...if you're interested then keep discussing it XDDDDD. Just some offer of brainstorm for fun XDD


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## Olorgando (Oct 25, 2020)

Angelimir said:


> I would have to say Gondolin’s infantry if only because those Elves were of the first age and it seems a natural progression in Tolkien writing that with the passing of time, things only get worse. Not that the Numenorean Army would have just folded up and lost. Imagine 250 thousand men all 6’8 to 8’0, in Armor, with long swords, throwing spears, gigantic shields, and steel arrows. And all their men have excellent aim. Gondolin I believe had a force of 10 thousand. So now that I’m actually thinking about it. If Numenor could use their entire Army at their height of power. Numenor all the way.


As to the Númenóreans being tall: Elendil seems to be the tallest (and by quite a margin) of them. But the tallest of all the Children of Eru is said to be Elu Thingol. And we're talking about First-Age Noldor with forces from Gondolin here. Assuming they already had Mithril mail-shirts or even armor, the Númenóreans could have been in for a (to them) horrific surprise. Add to that the fact that the Elves were much hardier and swifter than Men, then the Hammer of Wrath could have exacted a massive toll on the Númenóreans, at least 10-to-1. It would, even if the Númenóreans had prevailed, have been very much of a Pyrrhic victory for the Númenóreans, from which they would have needed centuries to recover.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Oct 30, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> ...s to the Númenóreans being tall: Elendil seems to be the tallest (and by quite a margin) of them. But the tallest of all the Children of Eru is said to be Elu Thingol. And we're talking about First-Age Noldor with forces from Gondolin here. Assuming they already had Mithril mail-shirts or even armor, the Númenóreans could have been in for a (to them) horrific surprise. Add to that the fact that the Elves were much h...


Height is not the only elements, such as Hurin seem get better kill count than his brother during the Unnumbered Tears. 
According to all the kill ratio data we get, it seem the Numenor perform much better proved by Isuildur's tendency. OFC it's another matter we can make sure the Gondolin's siege provides more evidence, though those Noldor got the support of heavy firepower XD


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