# Who Do You Feel Most Sorry For In The Silmarillion?



## Bard the Bowman

Which character inspires the most sympathy in you folks? Fingolfin? Maglor? Turin? Fingon? Finrod?


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## Sulimo

The three characters that I feel the worst for are in order from least to most: Beleg, Melian, and then Feanor. I also have Maedhros in a close 4th. 

These may seem random characters, but I think that I have good reasons for all. Lets start with Maedhros he was a noble and honorable elf. He was a true friend, and even stood up to his father at the burning of the ships. However he also made the vow, and thus thoroughly condemned his soul. As a result he slew innocents and committed such terrible acts that by the time he achieved his goal and got a Silmaril it scoured his flesh and drove him to suicide. 

Next comes Beleg. He was a stand up friend who gave up his position of respect in for love of a friend. Next he followed that friend into realms where no elf or man traveled in a hopeless quest to save him against unspeakable odds. All this he did just to have his best friend inadvertently slay him. However, on the bright side. I'm sure his stint in Mandos was short. 

Melian went to Middle Earth fell in love, and lost it all. She was blessed with an amazing wise and understanding husband, and the most lovely daughter that ever lived. Because of the jewels of Feanor she had to watch her family crumble, and then she also had to deal with her daughter being separated from her for ever. To top it off, after being scorned by her cursed foster son she then had to watch her husband be murdered. Not a fun lot, and a pretty crummy situation to return to the undying lands in. 

However, I believe that Feanor takes the cake. He was the most talented and skilled of the Noldor. He was passionate and well liked. He loved his father and I believe had Melkor not interfered he could of been a much better brother. However, he was corrupted first hand and intentionally by the Vala Melkor himself. Its said that Adam and Eve in the garden when approached by Satan himself fell into sin. Feanor more then likely had thousands of years of direct exposure to Melkor (Satan), and his corruption. Anyone who goes through that has my sympathy.


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## Bard the Bowman

Beleg's bond to Turin definitely evokes sympathy in me. He does everything he can to help the stubborn mule, and is in turn killed by him. How can you not feel sorry for him? I don't feel sorry for Turin - even though his marrying his sister wasn't really his fault, because - because he did so much evil before. 

I feel the most pity for Fingolfin, and Fingon in there, but most for Fingolfin. He was betrayed by his own brother.....ouch. Then passes the Grinding Ice, and on top of that has to rule the Noldor, on the forefront of conflict. On top of that he has to live in Hithlum. Who would ever live in Hithlum except by necessity?


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## Starbrow

Hurin and his family get my sympathy.
Hurin is one of the bravest men and defied Morgoth for years, while Morgoth showed him all the terrible things that were happening to his family.


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## Adanedhel

I think that the most misfortunate character of the silmarillion is Feanor for he could have done some things which nobody else could ever do, except Eru himself and perhaps Manwe. Alas, his heart turned to atrocious deeds because of the wiliness of Morgoth. What a pitty...


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## Fingon69

I have to go with Hurin and his family, they lost everything, in terrible circumstances and never got anything in return (save for the short happy time of Turin with Nienor when they didn't know they were brother and sister).

Tuor suffered, but he was rewarded at the end. Other men lost everything, including their lives but didn't go through as much as Hurin and family.

As per the Elves, they don't really died, they just went to Mandos, with the exception of Luthien and Arwen, that's why I could tend to feel especially sorry for Thingon, Melian, Elrond and Celebrian because they would never see their daughter again.

As per Feanor, most of his problems were his own making. sure he was deceived by Melkor but even in the end, when he was dying and knew Melkor could not be defeated he still made his sons confirm the oath.

The attack to the Teleri was terrible and even more burning the ships. While it could be argued that he needed the ships and fought for them, there was no reasons to burn the ships and leave his relatives and his people behind.

No simpathy for Feanor, or his children except maybe a little for Maedhros and Maglor.


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## Bellandor

I think I would give my thoughts to Manwe, King of the Valar and brother of Melkor who in turn became Morgoth.


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## Eledhwen

Hurin and Morwen. What a miserable life they both had.
Hurin finds Morwen (Nasmith)


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## Mouth_Of_Sauron

Poor, poor Mim :*(


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## independent

Turin and Nienor because they suffered decades of horrific tragedy and finally committed suicide.


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## Confusticated

Morwen and Gwindor.


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## Eledhwen

*Turin Turambar*

Turin was heroic, but managed to hurt the people he loved most and who had loved him most; even to the point of death. He suffered one tragedy after another. I would rank Hurin alongside his son in tragedy; as he was forced, through Morgoth's power, to watch the tragedies unfold on his children.


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## Tsagadar

I think I would go with Maglor.

Many suffered in the Silmarillion, but most of them died and got released (at least of the suffering in Middle Earth). Not so with Maglor.
He always seemed the most gentle of Feanor's sons and I don't think he liked where things were headed from the beginning, even though he was trapped by his father's oath. Maybe a comparison can be made between Maedhros and Maglor to Fingolfin and Finarfin - both good, one valiant and one gentle, only that Maglor could not turn back to Valinor as Finarfin did, and was doomed to suffer in Middle Earth.
The sad part is that he didn't want any of this, and it was the oath that forced him.
Eventually he achieved "his goal", but it was in a very shameful way which he wanted to avoid and obviously regretted, And he could not even keep the Silmaril... Imagine that you pursue something for a thousand years and you can't bear to have it once you get it..
And to make him even more pitiful - he doesn't die to go to the halls of Mandos, but stays an outcast on Middle Earth - full of sorrow and regret.

Eventually - he doesn't even have the pity of most of the readers.
Poor guy


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## Sulimo

Tsagadir, excellent call on Maglar. I still stand by my choices, but I will admit I overlooked Maglar, and you made some excellent points. It is so difficult to rank tragedy when most everyone in the story is noble, and die as well. It is impossible to fully appreciate the full degree of pain and suffering endured by the elves of the first age first hand by the vala Melkor. Another one that people gloss over, and yet is such a sad figure is Gwindor. The list goes on and on of those who suffered the Doom of Mandos. I think it also illustrates the degree of loss that Tolkien suffered in his own life. Imagine that you go and fight in a savage and brutal war, and all of your friends that you grew up with died, and you yourself witnessed mass death all around you. It is unsurprising that these tales compel such grief and loss. When they are written by someone who endured so much.


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## Mouth_Of_Sauron

Without a doubt, the Teleri. Their ships were their Silmarils, and their rape was too sorrowful even for song. But their humility kept their sorrow from turning to rage and though I admire the oath of Feanor, the quiet and graceful agony of the Teleri is more deserving of my respect.


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## Rilien

Luthien Tinuviel.


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## host of eldar

Hurin and Morwen.. they suffered from Morgoth and their children's evil fate


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## Alcuin

Beleriand is a pretty wretched place, because the neighbor to the North is the devil himself. 

The people who seem to suffer the most are the women of the First House of the Edain, their descendents, and the Folk of Haleth. Morwen, the wife of Húrin, suffered miserably: her husband vanished and was presumed dead; her children all predeceased her; the malice of Morgoth destroyed her family, and when her husband finally found her, she died in his arms. (Maybe that last was a blessing.) 

Little Lalaith, her older daughter, never had a chance; but child mortality was probably higher among the Edain than the Elves (though little Eluréd and Elurín fared no better, and maybe worse). But the fate of poor Nienor is horrific: she had done _nothing_ wrong: she was simply prey for the naked malice of Morgoth and Glaurung. 

The same might be said of Túrin’s beloved, Finduilas. Finduilas, like Nienor, did nothing wrong. She and Túrin might arguably have been a third union of the Eldar and Edain in the First Age; but again the wicked and powerful of Beleriand, Morgoth and Glaurung, overwhelmed her, and she died a miserable death. 

The Folk of Haleth, the Second House of the Edain. Túrin disrupted their society; Húrin destroyed it. In particular, Manthor, who was Húrin’s first cousin once removed (Manthor was Húrin’s aunt’s grandson), died defending Húrin; just as Manthor’s brother, Hunthor, died defending Túrin. The implication is that Húrin ruined the Folk of Haleth, his mother’s people, out of malice – malice imbued during his long captivity by Morgoth. 

Finally, there is Andreth daughter of Boromir (no, not of Minas Tirith: his First Age namesake), the forsaken lover of Aegnor, brother of Finrod Felagund. “Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth” (“the Debate of Finrod and Andreth”) in _Morgoth’s Ring_ is worth reading if you have not. Andreth is miserable, and cannot understand Aegnor’s seeming rejection of her; Finrod cannot explain it to her in any way that she can accept. (In a twist of fate, one of Andreth’s nephews died fighting beside Aegnor, while another was the father of Beren One-Handed: perhaps Andreth’s experience helped inform Beren’s wooing Lúthien.) 

Of those, I think Nienor the most pitiable. They’re all piteous, but Nienor seems to be in the worst situation of all. 

For such a beautiful place, Beleriand sure turned out to be a bad neighborhood.


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## Naeth Dúlinn

I'd definitely say Turin (apparently I can't type accent marks). Morgoth's curse on his family basically ruined his life. He was banished, then redeemed in Menegroth, only to never know he was redeemed until the day he died. He left his family very early, and only saw his sister, who he didn't know was his sister, and conceived a baby with her. Even if say, Nienor didn't commit suicide, held the baby to term, then they would be outcasts. It is said that love between anything closer than second cousins was despicable in that society. He committed great acts, such as killing Glaurung, and securing the lands for years as Morgemil and the Dragon-helm, only to suffer in the end.


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## FinrodFelagund

I'd say Turin, because his younger sister died, then his father was captured, then was sent away to Doriath away from his mother and best friend, and then he marries his wife who was actually his sister, (there was a period of time with outlaws and forest men), but then when he went to kill Glaurung, he fell unconscious, and his wife (and sister) committed suicide by jumping into a river. After that, he awoke and found out that his wife (and sister) had committed suicide, and he fell on his own sword and took his life. Practically his whole family died (or was taken away) which caused him to commit suicide.


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## Ásta

Beleg. Although I felt pretty bad for Turin and Neinor. And their unborn child. That made me very sad that baby died too.


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## Erestor Arcamen

Ásta said:


> Beleg. Although I felt pretty bad for Turin and Neinor. And their unborn child. That made me very sad that baby died too.



I agree with you. Beleg is one of my favorite characters.


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## Matthew Bailey01

Ëarendil.


I obviously take Middle-earth too seriously!


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## King Naugladur

Erestor, Beleg had been warned by Melian that Anglachel had a wicked heart. If I were he, I would pick a sword not forged by a Dark Elf. Although I felt sorry for his death, I believe that he ought to be cautious when trifling with enchanted items.
However, the character I pity most is Mim. His kinsmen were wiped out by the Elves, his very son was killed by Androg, one of Turin's outlaws, he was forced to let those savages dwell in his halls, made to tolerate Beleg's presence, was denied lembas and scorned by everybody. Plus, he and Ibun were captured by the Orcs and, even then, he tried to save Turin, only to end up being killed by a man whose own son respected him.
King Naugladur.


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## Becki Nightingale

No one has mentioned Eru Illúvatar yet! He had to watch the whole of his beautiful creation be defiled by the evil intent of Morgoth. That must have been absolutely terrible for him.


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## Erestor Arcamen

I think that Melkor's doings were all part of Eru's plans, based off this quote, which I've always found beautiful:



> Then Ilúvatar spoke, and he said: ‘Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. *And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.’*



No matter how hard Melkor tried to do his own thing, the ultimate source was in Eru and would lead to things "more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."


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## Becki Nightingale

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I think that Melkor's doings were all part of Eru's plans, based off this quote, which I've always found beautiful:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how hard Melkor tried to do his own thing, the ultimate source was in Eru and would lead to things "more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."


Truly spoken and I stand corrected, conceding defeat more nobly than the noblest of armies! 

I really should get back to reading the Silmarillion again, it's been too long.

EDIT: I am never using these smilies again...


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## Erestor Arcamen

What happened with the smilies?

I haven't read the Silmarillion in about two years and LOTR in about four. I really need to get my books and start reading them again.


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## Firintuilo

This is a tough question as simply there are just way too many candidates on the list of the forlorn and ill-fated characters of the Silmarillion. For this reason I would rather not name any character as most hapless.

When I read the Silmarillion for the first time during my teenage years I recall myself mercilessly condemning Feanor for his atrocious acts without giving a second thought to what led him towards madness. Now you guys have already mentioned an abundance of reasons as to why he is a character to pity, so I would rather only share a recent discovery of mine about one aspect of his character.

Apart from the death of Míriel, his mother, I think the fact that Finwe remarried and practically started this whole family business all over again must have added to his angst (I mean, he does seem like an angsty character, right?). Now I am fairly certain that many of those who ventured the journey from Cuiviénen (and even more of the Unwilling who stayed behind) had to cope with the loss of a mother or a father, but if I am not mistaken (correct me if I am), Finwe was the only one permitted to wed again. This leaves Feanor in the lonely and forsaken role of the only step-brother in elven history, and although I think it is safe to say that by the time of Findis' birth he must have been of age, meaning he was not a child anymore at all, it still imputes to his trademark haughtiness (even if it is stated in the Sillmarillion that he was daddy's favourite...).

Of course none of these justify his gone astray acts, let alone put him in the position of the character who deserves utmost compassion, but I think he too had his fair share of tragedy in the Silmarillion.


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## Erestor Arcamen

Firintuilo said:


> This is a tough question as simply there are just way too many candidates on the list of the forlorn and ill-fated characters of the Silmarillion. For this reason I would rather not name any character as most hapless.
> 
> When I read the Silmarillion for the first time during my teenage years I recall myself mercilessly condemning Feanor for his atrocious acts without giving a second thought to what led him towards madness. Now you guys have already mentioned an abundance of reasons as to why he is a character to pity, so I would rather only share a recent discovery of mine about one aspect of his character.
> 
> Apart from the death of Míriel, his mother, I think the fact that Finwe remarried and practically started this whole family business all over again must have added to his angst (I mean, he does seem like an angsty character, right?). Now I am fairly certain that many of those who ventured the journey from Cuiviénen (and even more of the Unwilling who stayed behind) had to cope with the loss of a mother or a father, but if I am not mistaken (correct me if I am), Finwe was the only one permitted to wed again. This leaves Feanor in the lonely and forsaken role of the only step-brother in elven history, and although I think it is safe to say that by the time of Findis' birth he must have been of age, meaning he was not a child anymore at all, it still imputes to his trademark haughtiness (even if it is stated in the Sillmarillion that he was daddy's favourite...).
> 
> Of course none of these justify his gone astray acts, let alone put him in the position of the character who deserves utmost compassion, but I think he too had his fair share of tragedy in the Silmarillion.



First, welcome to the forum!

I agree, Feanor had lot happen to pity him, not that it justifies his atrocities, but the evil of Melkor I feel, really helped push him to the limit.


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## MasterBaggins

I gotta go with Luthien, Sauron, and Turin. 

Turin, because his sister died, father was kidnapped, his sister/wife committed suicide, and then, he himself, committed suicide. (To me, suicide is worst than torture, but hey that's just me.) 

Luthien, I mean, Beren died in her arms! That's traumatizing! And this is coming from someone who has experienced that, first hand. Then was capture and held prisoner by Sauron and Morogoth.

Sauron...well...I just feel sorry for him. Don't know why, but it just strikes across me as his backstory rather sad.


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## Meisiluosi

I'd go with *Maedhros* because he's easily my favourite and he's definitely one of the most tragic characters in the legendarium. But he did have a hand (no pun intended) in his own demise - and he stuck to his guns in a way that earns him my sympathy, admiration even - but doesn't exactly inspire pity. You can't feel too sorry for someone so wonderfully _badass_.
Same with Maglor. I do feel sorry for him - but what applies in Maedhros's case mostly applies in his case as well. He might have been the gentlest of the seven brothers but he was still a full-fledged Fëanorian.

*Brandir the Lame* it is. The poor sod really got the short end of the stick. _The Silmarillion_ is full of such tragic tales - but I can think of only a very few characters in that book who had such completely, consistently f***ed up lives while being _so_ undeserving of such misfortunes. And it's the _relative_ lack of histrionic drama and graphic violence that make this particular destiny stand out for me. Brandir's pretty low-key, very believable and very relatable.


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## Firintuilo

Meisiluosi said:


> I'd go with *Maedhros* because he's easily my favourite and he's definitely one of the most tragic characters in the legendarium. But he did have a hand (no pun intended) in his own demise - and he stuck to his guns in a way that earns him my sympathy, admiration even - but doesn't exactly inspire pity. You can't feel too sorry for someone so wonderfully _badass_.
> Same with Maglor. I do feel sorry for him - but what applies in Maedhros's case mostly applies in his case as well. He might have been the gentlest of the seven brothers but he was still a full-fledged Fëanorian.
> 
> *Brandir the Lame* it is. The poor sod really got the short end of the stick. _The Silmarillion_ is full of such tragic tales - but I can think of only a very few characters in that book who had such completely, consistently f***ed up lives while being _so_ undeserving of such misfortunes. And it's the _relative_ lack of histrionic drama and graphic violence that make this particular destiny stand out for me. Brandir's pretty low-key, very believable and very relatable.



Nice take on poor lame Brandir! The very essence of his (indeed, very relatable) tragedy might be that in spite of all the indignities he endured you are the first person even to mention his name. More recognition to that hapless fella!


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## Meisiluosi

Firintuilo said:


> Nice take on poor lame Brandir! The very essence of his (indeed, very relatable) tragedy might be that in spite of all the indignities he endured you are the first person even to mention his name. More recognition to that hapless fella!


Yep, Brandir needs (and deserves) more love!
I totally feel for Finduilas and Beleg and Nienor and ... just everyone who's ever had the misfortune of getting close enough to Túrin for some of that spectacularly and abysmally bad karma to rub off on them. But none of them got so mercilessly ditched by pretty much *everybody* who ever mattered to them.
And though he was bloody right about Túrin from the start, he never gets any apology from anyone, although - despite some (understandable) bitterness and jealousy on his part - his primary concern was always for the well-being of his people and happiness of the woman he loved.
Poor, poor sod.


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## Dor-nu-Fauglith

Turin, Hurin, Morwen, Nienor, Fingolfin, and even Yavanna.

The Children of Hurin needs no introduction, Tolkien really can be brutal sometimes. Fingolfin I feel sorry for, guiltless was he, yet that did not save him from the doom that was upon the Noldor. He saw the destruction of his kin and died a most heroic death.

And Yavanna, she sang the trees into existence and laboured long, only for such a thing of beauty to be utterly destroyed, and the light of it to perish forever until the recovery of the Silmarils.


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## Rutheaserce

The whole House of Fëanor (and I guess the House of Finwë, too). Morgoth basically ruined everything for them (well, excluding Miriel Therindë's death) by telling all these lies to Fëanor (indirectly). Then a bunch of stuff happen and a bunch of elves die, and Fëanor gets blamed. His sons have "daddy issues," Fëanor has "daddy issues," Nerdanel has "husband issues," and well... I think that they could have been an example of the "perfect" family had none of those things happened. But it makes for a wonderful, heart-wrenching story, so I suppose it's okay in the end.


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## JoyridingTilion

Turin of course, since everything he tries goes horribly wrong thanks to Morgoth. I had a lot of sympathy for Feanor early on as well, but not after he started acting like a douche.


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## Belnorn

Honestly for me it was Turin. His whole bloodline was cursed by the biggest jerk of all of Arda, Melkor. Turin was the opposite of Tuor, his cousin. Where everything good happened for Tuor. Everything went to the dumps for Turin. 

Like when he destroyed a bridge believing this would help a town. Ended up destroying the town. Due to the fact that no one could escape. Or when he accidentally killed his best friend because he couldn't see in the dark. And the worst of them all. Marrying his own sister. 

Sure he and his sister were under a spell caused by the first dragon. Yet, that sucks. Also when he killed the dragon. The illusion broke. Turin killed himself. His sister jumped into the river to kill herself. And for the most part people of Arda don't really care about him.

However before the changes made by son of Tolkien, he was destined to get revenge. And at the end of days, return and kill Morgoth. 

But he got shafted once again. So his life sucks.


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## Matthew Bailey

I have a hard time saying who was most pitiable.

Tolkien felt that to be Túrin and Fëanor.

These two were supposed to return at the _End of Times _to slay Morgoth himself, to take revenge upon him.

But I find all of Tolkien's characters to be tragic. The Epic and Myths of Middle-earth _ARE Tragedies_. They are all about loss, and the passing of the Great and Wonderful things out of the Depths of Time that once drove Humanity (and the Eldar) to such great heights that their fall was all the more tragic and pitifully heart-wrenching.

It took me a very long-time to understand this, as when I was younger all I saw was armies of Orcs and Elves fighting each other, and Magic Swords, and Rings.... 

When I finally started to learn more about Tolkien's beliefs, and look at the Theology and Metaphysics of the world itself, I began to notice how deeply sad everything within Middle-earth is; how nothing really ends as Bilbo's ending for his book:

_And they lived happily for the rest of their days.
_
Only Sam, Peregrin, and Meriadoc can be said to have come even close to this, and even they were both touched by tragedy and loss.

MB


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## Eledhwen

Matthew Bailey said:


> When I finally started to learn more about Tolkien's beliefs, and look at the Theology and Metaphysics of the world itself, I began to notice how deeply sad everything within Middle-earth is; how nothing really ends as Bilbo's ending for his book:
> 
> _And they lived happily for the rest of their days.
> _
> Only Sam, Peregrin, and Meriadoc can be said to have come even close to this, and even they were both touched by tragedy and loss.
> 
> MB


You're right, of course! When Galadriel spoke of having fought the long defeat, it's easy to overlook that her life had spanned thousands of years and she was still defending her land and people against the same enemy. They won the war, of course, but at great cost.


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