# Sauron and the Ring



## ely (Jun 17, 2003)

I was just wondering....

It was impossible to use the Ring against Sauron, wasn't it?
I mean, he made it, it was a part of him...

But was it? Was the Ring a part of Sauron or was it just something else that Sauron gave some of his power?

Was the Ring alive, did it have its own will?

If so, was Sauron the master of the Ring or was it the other way round? What if Sauron was also under the power of the Ring? Yes, I know he made it, but what if it became more powerful than he was? 

And if it was more powerful than Sauron, would it have destroyed him? And how on earth could a ring rule the world? I mean the ring itself, not through somebody...

Forgive me if what I'm saying is completely insane, it has been a long day and I should go to bed


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## YayGollum (Jun 17, 2003)

Yes, that was a crazy post. oh well. Very fun.

1. I would say no. Gollum used it to catch goblinses with. Sauron used goblinses in wars and things. Or are you just asking if someone could ever actually wear the thing and have all kinds of creepy powerses that they could use to kill Sauron? Sure, I think that it could do that. But then, it would eventually make the guy achingly evil and Sauron would always be able to come back.

2. I would say both. He tossed all kinds of his power into the thing. It was an achingly cool thing to make sure he wouldn't die. It was a way for him to stretch his will onto the other people who wore rings of power. 

3. I wouldn't think so. When the One Ring was destroyed, so was Sauron. When Sauron was killed, the One Ring didn't just poof into oblivion. It was a tool. Even though it was an extention of the scary guy's will. Maybe we could think of it as an achingly powerful answering machine? *quivers* It has the ideas of Sauron stuck in it. It does what Sauron would want the thing to do.

4. I think this stuff is craziness. Sauron was the big guy in charge. Sure, I can see why you might think that he was being influenced by the thing, but that's craziness, too. That's like saying ---> "Oh, no! Chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream is my favorite kind of ice cream and I suddenly have the urge to eat some! Why? Yikes! I'm letting myself want to eat things that I already like! Way too scary for me!" I guess that it could get more powerful than him. If he got killed about 27,000 times and lost more and more abilities. It wouldn't rebel or anything, though.  

5. No. That's just craziness. If the One Ring was messing with somebody else to let them take over, Sauron would really be the one in charge. If the One Ring is still around, Sauron is still around. Too bad.


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 17, 2003)

I'm with the Precious-Killer *points up*...*while running away*


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## Manveru (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm also with You, YayGollum... all the way...
BTW: Nice way of explanation


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## Theoden_king (Jun 18, 2003)

In the books doesn't it say somewhere (I have no source at the moment so I can't check) that one with a strong enough willl could wield the ring and overthrow Sauron?


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## Elendil3119 (Jun 18, 2003)

_From Letter #131_:


> But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fairy-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished'. Unless some other seized it and became possessed of it. If that happened, the new possessor could (if sufficiently strong and heroic by nature) challenge Sauron, become master of all that he had learned or done since the making of the One Ring, and so overthrow him and usurp his place.


So yes, Sauron could be overthrown by someone using the ring. I highly doubt, though, that someone like Frodo could have done it. It would have been nearly impossible for him to bend the Ring to his will.


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## Manveru (Jun 18, 2003)

But when someone were so strong as to bend the Ring to his/her will, use IT and defeat, overthrow Sauron, he/she would become a new Dark Lord, wouldn't he/she? So when Sauron were(hypothetically) finally defeated it would be someone in his place to harass Middle-earth and so on and so forth... Doesn't it reamind you something like 'going in circles' or what?


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## Theoden_king (Jun 19, 2003)

Yes, but even though Sauron was overthrown there were still evil forces in the world so I guess the only difference would have been that the dark lord could of either had The One ring or not have it, as it worked out the dark lord could not have it because it was destroyed. 
That makes you think, if someone had overthrown Sauron and kept the ring would he have been more powerful than Sauron? I think so because if they had the strength to overthrow Sauron the would have all their strength and The One ring to lead their dark forces, Middle Earth would have been a pretty miserable place in my opinion


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## Manveru (Jun 19, 2003)

Agree on that


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## YayGollum (Jun 19, 2003)

Sure, thanks for agreeing, but even if someone was able to use the One Ring just as well as Sauron, Sauron would always be able to come back if the thing was still around. Sure, whoever was using the One Ring achingly well would always be able to kill Sauron, but he'd always come back. Creepy, but useless.


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## Manveru (Jun 20, 2003)

**puff* and your gone...*

Maybe I should start a new thread, but I think it's closely related to the topic:

Q: Why wasn't Sauron invisible, while wielding the One Ring on his hand?

As I remember everyone, who had the OR and used IT became invisible (Isildur, Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo even Sam). So what's the catch here?


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## Lantarion (Jun 20, 2003)

It's in HoME, if anywhere..
He was probably just immune to his own magics.


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## Theoden_king (Jun 20, 2003)

The ring has his power in it so I assume he has a control over the invisibilty, everyone who used it did not turn invisible, Tom Bombadil wore it and remained visible


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## YayGollum (Jun 20, 2003)

Makes all kinds of sense to me. If the One Ring made Sauron invisible, wouldn't it turn him into a superly cool Gollum type thing, too?


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## Manveru (Jun 21, 2003)

You've got a POINT    

So if, for example, Isildur had used the One Ring longer, he would have become similar to Gollum (I mean in appearance and so).
Wow! Not one, but two Gollums there would be ... and what about other Ringbearers I don't even want to think of that... Gollum can be only ONE...right Yay


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## YayGollum (Jun 21, 2003)

Sure, why not? Anyways, no, I wouldn't think that Isildur would get to turn into anything like Gollum. The One Ring would have messed with him in a way that had more to do with him. The One Ring helped Gollum out by giving him flippers and extra strength and things like that because he needed those types of thingses to survive in the Misty Mountains. Who knows what it would have done if Isildur always wore the thing?


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## Manveru (Jun 22, 2003)

Brrr...scary thought


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