# Dwarves?



## Gamil Zirak (Apr 7, 2002)

The discussion of Dwarves in the first-age is very limited (I know this is a book about the history of elves and middle earth). I've been pondering something for a long time and thought I would ask it here. Does anyone know anything about the Seven Fathers of the dwarves? I know the oldest and most talked about is Durin the Deathless. In fact, I think most of the dwarves in the Hobbit and LoTR are from Durin's line. The only dwarve thats I can recall that aren't from his line are Mîm and his two sons, Khîm and Ibun. They were banished from the great dwarf cities in the east. They were known as the Petty-Dwarves. Does any one know the names of the six other fathers of the dwarves?


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## Mormegil (Apr 8, 2002)

I think that Durin was the only 'Father' to be named.
However it is generally assumed that the Dwarf cities of Belegost and Nogrod, in Beleriand were the place of awakening for two of the other 'fathers'. And that they each held one of the 7 houses of Dwarves.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Apr 11, 2002)

Yes i cant quite remember wat they were called i remeber there was a thread a while back with lots of info in it. Sorry i cant help


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## Úlairi (Apr 12, 2002)

Yes, I too seem to remember a thread concerning this but I do not think it exists anymore.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Apr 14, 2002)

Yes u r probably right.


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## Úlairi (Apr 14, 2002)

Pity that.


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## Turgon (Apr 17, 2002)

*Azaghal?*

Remember Azaghal from the Sil.? He's the King of Belegost right? This name could possibly be a Hereditary name, like Durin was in Moria. Slim chance of course, yet possible. I think it's the best lead we have on the possible names of the other Fathers.


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## Elanor2 (Apr 18, 2002)

I found two more names in HoME-Lost tales 2-The Nauglafring:
Naugladur of Nogrod and Bodruith of Belegost.

However, this is an old version of the tale of the Dwarves' necklace and the dead of Thingol that Tolkien did not use again. Dwarves were mentioned for thr first time there. It also seems, from the description, that the dwarves of Belegost were the Longbeards, so Durin's people.

Quite confusing. Has someone found more?


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## Úlairi (Apr 19, 2002)

The Dwarves are first mentioned in 'The Silmarillion' when Aule creates them if that is what you guys are looking for. It is rather interesting. The fact that Aule goes behind the Valar's backs is very rebellious.


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## Turgon (Apr 19, 2002)

*Azaghal...!?*

Eleanor2, I considered whether or not the Dwarves of Belegost belonged to Durin's folk, and have not yet managed to find an answer either way... The dwarves of Nogrod we know to be of a different tribe - as we know that Durin's folk were guiltless in the Slaying of Thingol. As for the Dwarves of Belegost - if anyone could tell me where it mentions that they are Longbeards I would appreciate it - as I can't really remember reading it. I based my assumption of the Dwarves of Belegost being a different tribe, mainly on the fact that Durin and Azaghal's folk seem to have different customs...


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## Elanor2 (Apr 20, 2002)

Hi Turgon,

I got that from the comments to Christopher Tolkien. His father made a description of the Belegost dwarves as having the longest beards, that they parted and tied to their backs. However, this part of Lost Tales is the first writing were dwarves are mentionned, so Tolkien changed many things afterwards, as Chris points out.

The dwarves of Belegost in SIL did not participate in the destruction of Doriath, only those of Nogrod (as opposed to this first version in lost tales). So perhaps Tolkien decided to split them into bad/good dwarves (involved in the destruction/not involved) and Durin's folk came from the original image of the long-bearded dwarves of Belegost. However, I cannot go any further and make the direct link between Belegost and Durin's folk. I am only part through HoME. That's why I asked.

Regards. Elanor2.


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