# Translating orc names



## Snaga (Dec 15, 2003)

I've been trying to translate the orc names given in Lord of the Rings, based primarily on "The Etymologies" published in "The Lost Road". My efforts have yielded partial success. I produce them below for comment and assistance anyone can offer.

Capitals refer to Quenyan primary stems.

Uglúk = hideous orc. Úlug- hideous (whence Ilkorin olg); orch – Sind. orc

Grishnákh = pain in violence – Gor-ishi-nakh. GOR- violence, impetus, haste; ISHI- B.S. in, in the; NAYAK- sharp pain (or possibly NÁRAK- rend, tear) NB, ishi reverses the English word order

Gorbag GOR- violence, impetus, haste;

Shagrat = bitter metal. SAG- bitter RAUTA- metal (seems more likely than RAT- walk)

Radbug = Morgoth’s return? BAUG- tyrannous, cruel, oppressive (hence Bauglir: tyrant, name given to Morgoth); RAD- return, (or Radhon, Dorithian = East; in which case East Tyrant – named after Sauron??) 

Lagduf = Gloomy sword. LAG- sword, cutlass, broadsword, Dufn (Noldor) = gloomy

Muzgash = Possibly “Soft Fire” Muzga- Quenya = Soft, Ghâsh = B.S. fire. I prefer “Soft one” using ash = B.S. ash = one. Making this an insult? Not happy with these ideas….

Mauhúr = Dark chieftain? MOR- black, dark; haran Quenya = king, chieftain

Ufthak??? I've drawn a total blank on this one.


Hmmm.... this needs more work


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## aragil (Dec 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Snaga _
> *Grishnákh = pain in violence – Gor-ishi-nakh. GOR- violence, impetus, haste; ISHI- B.S. in, in the; NAYAK- sharp pain (or possibly NÁRAK- rend, tear) NB, ishi reverses the English word order*


 Any way to rearrange this to 'sharp pain in the Nayak?'

Interesting bit- have you had a go at Quendi and Eldar in HoME 11? Also (though by no means 'authoritative', perhaps Gil-Galad's links from the 'U-h, goblin men, etc' thread would prove usefull, as they are more strictly orcish/black speech?

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/orkish.htm
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/blackspeech.htm


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## Snaga (Dec 15, 2003)

Hehehe... sharp pain in the Nayak! I like it!

Yup, I am aware of that site, and I have the HoME 11 passage bookmarked!

I note with interest the use of -uk to mean "all". and the notional translation of Ugluk as "Frighten all" although their route to that takes them outside Tolkien's writings.


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## Inderjit S (Dec 16, 2003)

> Radbug = Morgoth’s return? BAUG- tyrannous, cruel, oppressive (hence Bauglir: tyrant, name given to Morgoth); RAD- return, (or Radhon, Dorithian = East; in which case East Tyrant – named after Sauron??)



Well, according to Sauron Morgoth had already returned.  



> When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned.


 _Letter #183; Letters of Tolkien _ 

Besides Sauron didn't allow the Orks to say his name and I think it may have been seen as blasphemous to use his name. (The Orks usually referred to him as ‘Lugbúrz (B.S for ‘Barad-dûr‘; ir the ‘Great Eye’. Presumably it was O.K for high-ranking people to use his name, such as the Mouth of Sauron and the Nazgûl.) 

Brillaint work so far though, but I'd be careful with the Etmoglogies in the 'Lost Road' though, since some of the meanings of certain words/names latter were changed (i.e Maedhros's name) and some were added by C.T.


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## Lantarion (Dec 16, 2003)

You're forgetting snaga = slave! 
But wow excellent job with those.



> RAUTA- metal [...]


I haven't read Etymologies, but is that really the root for 'metal'?? Because that exact word, _rauta_, means 'iron' in Finnish!


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## Snaga (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Inderjit S _
> *Besides Sauron didn't allow the Orks to say his name and I think it may have been seen as blasphemous to use his name. (The Orks usually referred to him as ‘Lugbúrz (B.S for ‘Barad-dûr‘; ir the ‘Great Eye’. Presumably it was O.K for high-ranking people to use his name, such as the Mouth of Sauron and the Nazgûl.)
> 
> Brillaint work so far though, but I'd be careful with the Etmoglogies in the 'Lost Road' though, since some of the meanings of certain words/names latter were changed (i.e Maedhros's name) and some were added by C.T. *


 Good points. I'm not aware of having used any etymologies that have been superceded, but I didnt check very thoroughly. I would think that 'East Tyrant' would be sufficiently oblique as a reference to Sauron... its not his actual name.

Interesting to note that word is present in Finnish. JRRT was very familiar with nordic languages, so that is probably not a coincidence, although whether he took his inspiration from a medieval/ancient form of the language I don't know.

(Thank you for your kind words. )


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