# If you could change one thing?



## Merry (Mar 14, 2002)

If you could change one thing in the Silmarillion, what would it be?

Please don't be too general, "I wish Melkor never corrupted people", as this spoils the question.

I wish that Numenor (sp) never set sail against the Valar in an attempt to take immortal life for themselves and thereby sentence themselves and their children to death.

I would also stop Feanor from making the oath that destined his people to destruction.


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## baraka (Mar 14, 2002)

> If you could change one thing in the Silmarillion, what would it be?


I would made Feanor befriend the Teleri early in his youth so that he could learn the art of shipbuilding, so that when the "future" exiles went to ME, the slaying of the Teleri would be avoided. 
And that Feanor would befriend his 2 brothers early in their lives so as to avoid the rupture in the House of Finwe.


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## Orome (Mar 14, 2002)

I think what baraka says about the kinslaying would be one for me. It would be hard to choose between that and the betrayal mr. ethics did in leaving the rest to go to middle earth behind so that they had to cross those awfully cold places to the north. Both things I would change the most had to do with things Feanor did. Okay, the oath is another. Did this guy have just so many ways to mess up the days of other's or what? Seems like he was a better ally to Morgoth than Sauron though Feanor hated Morgoth so much. He managed to forward the will of Morgoth as much (maybe much more) as Sauron while Morgoth was still around. Hey, should that be a string of its own on the consideration. Who did better at forwarding Morgoth's will while Morgoth was around, Sauron, Gothmog, or Feanor?


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## baraka (Mar 14, 2002)

> the betrayal mr. ethics did in leaving the rest to go to middle earth behind so that they had to cross those awfully cold places to the north.


Mr. Ethics as you refer to Fëanor i do not like. It´s true that he left them and that was not good and indeed an awful deed. (But those he left behind were cursing him)


> Therefore Fëanor halted and the Noldor debated what course they should now take. But they began to suffer anguish from the cold, and the clinging mists through which no gleam of star could pierce; and many repented of the road and began to murmur, especially those that followed Fingolfin, cursing Fëanor, and naming him as the cause of all the woes of the Eldar.
> 'None and none! What I have left behind I count now no loss; needless baggage on the road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages of the Valar!


Although evil, by that action the elves that cursed his name could have returned to the valar. And no, i don´t think this is an excuse, but they were cursing him. He didn´t forced them to go with him.
Part of ethics i think is when you give your word to someone. When Fëanor made his promise, he never broke it. So he is not "unethical".


> Did this guy have just so many ways to mess up the days of other's or what?


Okay, where in Tuna did Fëanor "forced" someone to do something against their will. How? The only person that he drew a sword at were his brother Fingolfin and in the slaying of the Teleri.
Can you explain me how he "forced" the Noldor to follow him against the will of the Valar. Was it not instead the desire of the Noldor themselves to go to a new place an have kindoms of their own.


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## Orome (Mar 14, 2002)

The part referring to lack of ethics has more to do with intent and result than specifics per se. He had little care about what it took and that others paid the price is something for which he would not alter his actions but more influence people to his cause. Some of the things I would most change in the book were results of his actions. His seeking alternatives which caused no pain to even his own kindred but rather seeking those which would was not within his reckoning or possibly something he simply did not care about. The parts I would have changed going to the original question is the sheer and utter misery left in the path of Feanors deeds. That thing you mentioned about Feanor being a shipbuilder himself as one was cute as an example. Bringing the others who had to journey north by ship and then returning the ships would have been cool too. Too late for that part though since the Teleri had been slain. oops.


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## baraka (Mar 14, 2002)

> He had little care about what it took and that others paid the price is something for which he would not alter his actions but more influence people to his cause.


Feanor would have done anything to destroy Melkor. The fact that others paid a price is always sad. Remember, the elves that followed him to ME were NOT forced, they came because of their own free will. Feanor and the Noldor were influenced by Melkor´s lies.


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## Camille (Mar 18, 2002)

another Feanor  well back to the topic if I could chane one thing from the sil that it is that Melkor did not kill Fingolfin  , I would like that he had survive, somehow , I do not know,and not killed melkor of course! but I wished after that battle he would be the most honored elf ever. 
Maybe I wish that because all the prince of the noldor died (turgon, felagun, fingon, fingolfin) I would like that at least one of them would had survived.


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## Mormegil (Mar 18, 2002)

Ok, this quote isn't from the Sil, but it concerns the story of Turin Turambar, and also his cousin Tuor. 
It's where Veronwe and Tuor are on their way to Gondolin on their errand from Ulmo. They see Turin, who has left the ruins of Nargothrond after being tricked by Glaurung the Dragon. Turin is distraught and is looking for Finduilas.



> _From Unfinished Tales, 'Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin' _
> And as they waited one came through the trees, and they saw that he was a tall Man, armed, clad in black, with a long sword drawn, and they wondered, for the blade of the sword was also black, but the edges shone bright and cold.
> Woe was graven in his face, and when he beheld the ruin of Ivrin he cried aloud in grief, saying: 'Ivrin, Faelivrin! Gwindor and Beleg! Here once I was healed. But now never shall I drink the draught of peace again'
> Then he went swiftly away towards trhe North, as one in pursuit or on an errand of great haste, and they heard him cry 'Faelivrin, Finduilas!' until his voice died away in the woods. But they knew not that Nargathrond had fallen, and this was Turin son of Hurin, the Blacksword. Thus only for a moment, and never again, did the paths of those kinsmen Turin and Tuor draw together.



The thing that I would change is that Tuor and Turin meet each other at this point. And Turin somehow escapes his doomed destiny. Perhaps he goes to Gondolin with Tuor and has a happy ending instead of plunging further into his own doom.


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## chrysophalax (Mar 18, 2002)

I could wish that Turin had never slain Beleg Cuthalion.That Beleg
would have been able to turn his friend's heart and possibly even
helped to defeat Morgoth and his minions.


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## Lord Melkor (Mar 18, 2002)

Valar helping humans and elves against me! Victory was so close!


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## chrysophalax (Mar 18, 2002)

In a perect Arda, not close enough it would seem!


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 18, 2002)

Yeah i whish i didn't die. I don't want to change anything the only thing i want is more info. The best writings ever and why change it? Just more info and stories.


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## Elanor2 (Mar 19, 2002)

I think that we have hit the two points that I would also like changed in the Sil: Feanor and Turin.

Feanor should not have attacked the Teleri. If there must be a kinslayer, bring some evil agent to start it, not Feanor himself. And the same for Turin. His participation in the destruction of Nargothond (when he refused to destry his bridge) is really painful. Again, I would bring some more direct evil agent that can explain it, and not only the distant evil influence of Melkor.

They both have unhappy stories, like many others. But these two bring their doom by their own wrong and cruel decisions, and that makes them more difficult to accept. I like to have Good and Evil well separated. The heroes can make mistakes, but I do not like when they willfully do wrong things.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 19, 2002)

But any 1 change would bring on hundreds of others if tose happened history would have been changed and so would many other things.


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## Maedhros (Mar 19, 2002)

*Grandmother*

I only wished that my Grandmother "Miriel" didn´t died when she finished giving birth to my father Feanor.


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## StinkhornJake (Mar 27, 2002)

*What would I change?*

I only wish there was more information on the origins of Gandalf and the other Istari.


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## Khamul (Mar 27, 2002)

I also wish that there was more information on the origins of the Istari.


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## Halandor (Mar 27, 2002)

it would have been more interesting if Feanor had lived. I would have loved it if, in LOTR, Melkor came back and they had a HUGE **expletive deleted and poster warned** battle!


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## Varda (Mar 27, 2002)

I really wouldn't want to change anything because that would be messing with Tolkien's work. Although it would be cool if Tolkien was immortal so he could tie up loose ends and add more stories.


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## baraka (Mar 28, 2002)

> it would have been more interesting if Feanor had lived. I would have loved it if, in LOTR, Melkor came back and they had a HUGE f*cking battle!


I absolutey, completely agree. Feanor "should" have battled Melkor. You see Grond, I'm not alone in this.


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## Grond (Mar 28, 2002)

The only thing I would have changed was to have Melkor take Battle-hammer lessons. Aragorn said of Gimli at Helm's Deep, "...never have I seen an axe so wielded..." 

I was thinking the entire time I was spinning over Melkor's head while fighting Fingolfin, "...never had I seen a Battle-hammer so *poorly* wielded..." That way, I would have been the one to squish the life out of Fingolfin and of Feanor if he had come a calling.


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## Maedhros (Mar 29, 2002)

> That way, I would have been the one to squish the life out of Fingolfin and of Feanor if he had come a calling.


If I had battled your master, i would have wounded him greatly. I have not forgotten the pain which he inflicted me and remember that my sword in my left hand was deadly.


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## Bucky (Mar 30, 2002)

If I could change one thing, it would be Maedhros only getting his middle finger cut off after his parlay with Morgoth. 

No, I'm with Beleg on this one: I would like to see the whole story written on the scale of TLOR, like in the 2 partial stories in UT (Seems like I keep saying this).

>>>The thing that I would change is that Tuor and Turin meet each other at this point.

Gaurenteed that Tour wouldn't have lived long enough to make it to Gondolin if that happened.....

Turin had a knack for bringing those near him bad luck. 

And, really, Turin, or more precisely, Hurin & his family, HAVE to have their lives destroyed in the cruelest possible way because they are personally singled out by Morgoth & cursed for Hurin's defiance. 
Their destruction shows exactly why the war of The Noldor is without hope from the very beginning.


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## StinkhornJake (Apr 4, 2002)

*Change the Kinslaying?*

I would not change the occurrence of the kinslaying by Feanor against the Teleri. I think it was the author's intent to demonstrate what tragedy and evil can befall in life when a person chooses to exercise his own free will, against the council of the divine.


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## Lord Melkor (Apr 8, 2002)

I would like Sil to be longer, with more details, for example more on Fall of Gondolin.


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