# What language did the Valar speak?



## Link 2 (Feb 15, 2005)

Are they the ones who originally spoke Quenya? Or was it the Elves?

Hmmmmm....


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## Confusticated (Feb 15, 2005)

The Valar had their own language, called _Valarin_ by JRRT. 

The Elves invented their own language at Cuivienen, and this evolved into Quenya among the Noldor and Vanyar. The Vanyar had a slightly different Quenya. One of the features where it differed from Noldorin Quenya is in its borrowing of more words from Valarin.

In the 30s version of the Silmarillion JRRT imagined something different though. His older view was that the elves first learned language from the Valar. If you want to see the point at which he decided Elves invented their language, if I recall right it happens in the _Later Quenta_ in HoME 10. See the section and commentary on the Elves first meeting with Orome if interested.

At one point, I beleive it was in the later 50s, JRRT says in a letter that the Valar had no language of their own. In a slightly later essay called _Quendi and Eldar_ published in HoME 11, he writes about Valarin at length, and also gives a few Valarin words and explains why these beings needed language. One word the elves adopted from Valarin is Mahanaxar.

It is an interesting Essay. One of my favourite texts. It is about languages, but it is full historical information that would be of interest to those who aren't into the languages much.

I recommened anyone who is interesting in Dwarves, the First Age, or most especially in Elves, to read it. One of its appendices includes the tale of the Awakening of the Elves. In this we learn their original numbers, and from those early days they were three distinct groups.


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## baragund (Feb 23, 2005)

There is also some information in The Lost Road and Other Writings which is vol. 5 of the HOME series. There is a piece in that book called _The Lhammas_ which is a description of the evolution of languages as Tolkien imagined them in the mid-late 1930s. 

In that account, the Valar had their own language called Valarin from the time they entered Arda. Orome taught Valarin to the Elves shortly after they awoke at Cuivienen. Over time, the Elves "softened" it and made it more beautiful and descriptive through their use and it evolved to Quenya, or "Elf-Latin".

Interesting how Tolkien described the Elves improving on the original. One would think that the original Valarin would be the most perfect language since (if I recall correctly) it was "taught" or conveyed in some manner to the Valar by Eru himself.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 23, 2005)

baragund said:


> One would think that the original Valarin would be the most perfect language since (if I recall correctly) it was "taught" or conveyed in some manner to the Valar by Eru himself.



I don`t have me books with me right now, but I thought the Valar `invented` their language so that they could liken themselves more to the Children (much like they took visible and tangible forms upon themselves) and be able to interact with them on their own `level`.


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## baragund (Feb 23, 2005)

Neither do I, Ithy, but looking at Nom's post it seems that Tolkien's thoughts on how the languages and who taught what to whom evolved over the years.


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## Turambar (Feb 26, 2005)

I remember reading something in HoME about how the Valar dont speak to each other with words, they use some sort of telepathy (I forget how JRRT phrased it. He didn't call it telepathy anyway). I found that quite interesting.


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