# is there a gay character in Tolkien's universe?



## Phuc Do (Feb 13, 2017)

I was watching a George R R Martin interview and had a question. Is there a gay character in Tolkien's universe. As far as I can remember there isn't


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 13, 2017)

Quite simply,

no.



CL


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## Persephone (Feb 15, 2017)

Phuc Do said:


> I was watching a George R R Martin interview and had a question. Is there a gay character in Tolkien's universe. As far as I can remember there isn't



Gay Middle Earth characters only exist in fanfiction


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## Blueduindain (Apr 5, 2018)

I don't think so. But try telling that to fangirls that ship Maedhros and Fingon together! Or Maedhros, and Morgoth (yes I am not joking this ship actually exists! Eru have mercy on us all.)


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## Cloudhauler (Jun 19, 2018)

No.


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## Halasían (Jun 19, 2018)

I think the furthest reach Tolkien did was the unknown incest between Turin and Neinor, and Finwe having two wives.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Jun 20, 2018)

Halasían said:


> I think the furthest reach Tolkien did was the unknown incest between Turin and Neinor, and Finwe having two wives.



Regarding Feanor having two wives, I always have seen the Silmarillion as Tolkien's Middle Earth "Old Testament." So Feanor having two wives was a way to parallel the Hebrew bible where Abraham had two wives.


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## Halasían (Jun 20, 2018)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Regarding Feanor having two wives, I always have seen the Silmarillion as Tolkien's Middle Earth "Old Testament." So Feanor having two wives was a way to parallel the Hebrew bible where Abraham had two wives.



I beleave Feanor only had Nerdanel as wife and she birthed seven sons.


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## Ithilethiel (Jun 20, 2018)

Halasían said:


> I beleave Feanor only had Nerdanel as wife and she birthed seven sons.



Yup


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## MidnightStorm (Jun 20, 2018)

Simply put, no.


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## Kinofnerdanel (Jun 25, 2018)

The author was a strict orthodox.


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## Rána (Jun 27, 2018)

I would say the short answer is, "no."

But that's also influenced by the way that most of us (including myself) try to handle the material. As a structured set of accounts that make up a history of events in a world that's some kind of proto-world to our current one. Then, it seems, there's a strict responsibility to try to interpret things in the way that we try to guess that Tolkien thought about them.

But also I believe that a work of art is whatever the audience observes it to be. If someone else reading the text gathers an interpretation of character qualities, or a relationship, that they perceive to be of a different nature... it is what is: an interpretation... it isn't wrong, it just comes from the individual.

*
I guess for the sake of expanded, adult discussion I'll mention that I'm male: by markers, identity, biological attractions and the rest (just a, whatever, regular dude) to use some of the more modern language that's developing... but that's also where I start to disconnect from the language, because it's become such a big deal to attempt to categorize everything by the strictest possible definitions... I suspect that's partially why we seem to be so agitated and uncertain as a people nowadays.
*

That last bit is somewhat of a digression (more an attempt to help explain my point of view), the main point is that I've run through material that seems to call for modern interpretations. One section that I know has been intriguing to me is from The Ainulindalë in _The Silmarillion. _
But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby.​
To the 21st century ear, it seems to indicate that gender is a form of mood.. but it isn't really required for the outward expression of an individual. I think it would be easy for someone to read that material in a "gender fluid" manner.

Didn't Tolkien discourage allegory because writing/art should be applicable to any time, to any audience? Shouldn't we be trying to find modern expressions inside such timeless material?

I guess at this point I should also disclose that I'm not terribly familiar with GRR Martin... he's the _Game of Thrones_ author, right? I've gone so deep down the hobbit-hole of Middle-earth that I honestly haven't been interested in trying to pick up other modern mythologies, regardless of the outward pressure from family and friends... it's already enough for me to attempt to construct this world... I trust you guys know what I mean.


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