# Tolkien's Classic Put-downs



## Turgon (Feb 20, 2003)

Okay the premise of this thread is simple - cite your favourite put-downs and one-liners from Tolkien's work. 

'Get thee gone from my gate, though jail-crow of Mandos!'

Fëanor's snaps at the mightest dweller in all of Eä - one of the best put-downs from one of the best orators in all of Arda. You've got to love it.

'Two to one, so shut yer mouth!' 

Bert the Troll. Simple and classic - not for him the rococo intricacies of elvish abuse, and all the better for it.

Any more?


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## Confusticated (Feb 20, 2003)

Hurin to Thingol:
"Receive thou thy fee, for thy fair keeping of my children and my wife!"

Saruman to Theoden:
"Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs?"


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## Talierin (Feb 20, 2003)

"Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion!" - Eowyn to the Witch King, ROTK


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## Anamatar IV (Feb 20, 2003)

How about Gandalf's to Pippin outside Moria.

Knock on the doors with your head but if that does not shatter them, and I am allowed a little peace from foolish
questions, I will seek for the opening words.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 20, 2003)

How about when Bilbo said

"Old Tom-Noddy" and "Attercop, Attercop" to the spiders.

They really hated that...but I can't for the LIFE of me figure out what they MEAN!


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## Dr. Ransom (Feb 20, 2003)

"But Beren laughed. 'For little price,' he said, 'do Elven-kings sell their daughters."

Oh I love that line!


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## FoolOfATook (Feb 21, 2003)

> 'Gibbets and Crows!' he hissed, and they shuddered at the hideous change. 'Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs?'



Saruman, to Theoden


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 21, 2003)

WILL SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION!


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## FoolOfATook (Feb 21, 2003)

> WILL SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION!



Sure. Attercop derives from the Old English word "at(t)orcoppa and the Middle English word "atter-cop(pe). It loosely translates as something like "posion-head".

Tomnoddy, according to the OED, is "a foolish or stupid person"

You didn't mention "Lazy Lob" or "Crazy Cob", but in the interest of completeness, Lob is derived from the Old English "loppe" and "lobbe". The name Shelob simply translates as "Female Spider". 

"Cob" probably comes from the word "cobweb", but it might be worth noting that George Macdonald's _ The Princess and the Goblin_, one of the works that Tolkien certainly had in mind as he wrote _ The Hobbit_ uses the word "Cob" to mean Goblin.

All of this information comes from the indescribably useful _ Annotated Hobbit_ (Revised Edition), by Douglas A. Anderson.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 21, 2003)

Thank you SO much FoolofaTook!  You're the best!
That question has been burning within for SOOOO long!!!


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## TheFool (Feb 22, 2003)

"_Radagast the Brown! Radagast the bird-tamer .... Radagast the simple, Radagast the fool!_"

..expertly done by Peter Howell in the BBC version (plug plug plug) . Actually now that I think of it, Saruman dishes out loads of abuse in LOTR


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 22, 2003)

Such as?
I can't remember Saruman's insults being particularly insulting.
At lesat they didn't strike me as such.
You rather expected it from him and I certainly didn't take it seriously.
It's insults from good people like Gandalf that sting the most.
Gandalf's insults, especially towards the fellowship, always struck me as the harshest.


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## FoolOfATook (Feb 22, 2003)

> I can't remember Saruman's insults being particularly insulting.



Some of them are- the one I quoted certainly is, and his taunting of Galadriel at the end of ROTK:



> For a moment his eyes kindled. 'Go!' he said. 'I did not spend long on these matters for naught. You have doomed yourselves, and you know it. And it will afford me some comfort as I wander to think that you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine. And now, what ship will bear yoy back across so wide a sea?' he mocked. 'It will be a grey ship, and full of ghosts.' He laughed, but his voice was cracked and hideous.



That passage always struck me as coming from someone who had long ago mastered the use of words as weapons, and who was seeking to draw blood. 

I remembered another one of my favorite Tolkien insults-



> 'You have nice manners for a thief and a liar,' said the dragon. 'You seem familiar with my name, but I don't seem to remember smelling you before.'



Smaug, to Bilbo. There's something so... Victorian British upper-class about the phrase "You have nice manners for a thief and a liar" that I really like.


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## Goldberry (Feb 23, 2003)

One of my favorites, from RoTK, The Scouring of the Shire, is when the Shirriffs come and charge the hobbits with breaking all kinds of stupid rules, Frodo asks what else? and the Shirriffs reply that's enough for now. But SAM says:

" 'I can add some more, if you like it, ' said Sam. 'Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look like a lot of Tom-fools.' "


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 23, 2003)

I guess you're right..
What Saruman said to Galadriel was really awful...

But I doubt it hurt Galadriel. She's too noble to let Saruman take her down with his words.


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## Niniel (Feb 23, 2003)

Saruman could be very mean. Like this (from UT, The hunt for the Ring):


> 'You jest, Mithrandir, as is your way. I know well enough that you have become a curious explorer of the small: weeds, wild things, and childish folk. Your time is your own to spend, if you have nothing worthier to do; and your friends you may make as you please. But to me the days are too dark for wanderer's tales, and I have no time for the simples of peasants.'


 But he said that only because he was afraid of Gandalf. It seems Saruman uses scorn as a weapon when he has no other means of attack.


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## TheFool (Feb 23, 2003)

> 'You do what Sharkey says, always, don't you, Worm? Well now he says, follow!' He kicked Wormtongue in the face as he grovelled


I think that's a horrible side of Saruman, when he has lost all his physical powers and is only left with his 'mind', that he becomes a bully, beating down Wormtongue just because he can, and taking out his anger and frustration on him. (OK so this is not set in concrete but I think it's a safe bet that this is what's going on). 

Plus the whole exchange between Saruman, Gandalf and Theoden, Eomer, and the others...


> For I need you not, nor your little band of gallopers, as swift to fly as to advance..... Go back to your huts!


He lets fly at practically everybody!


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## Niniel (Feb 23, 2003)

Here's another:


> 'And leave behind these cut-throats and small rag-tag that dangle at your tail!'


He really IS a very unfriendly person, if you set together all these nasty things he said.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 23, 2003)

Um...is that such a surprise?
He's SARUMAN!

That's his JOB!!!


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## Lasgalen (Mar 5, 2003)

Legolas calls Merry 'Master Sluggard'

Saeros to Turin: "If the Men of Hithlum are so wild and fell, of what sort are the women of that land? Do they run like deer clad only in their hair?"

-Lasgalen


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## Arvedui (Mar 5, 2003)

Ilúvatar to Melkor:


> And thou, Melkor shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.


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## tookish-girl (Mar 6, 2003)

I always enjoy Barliman Butterbur calling Strider "Stick-At-naught" in the Prancing Pony.

Gandalf of course also has a sharp edge to his tongue. (Maybe it's a wizard thing!?) His many tellings off of Pippin are good examples. "Fool of a Took!"


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## Elfarmari (Mar 7, 2003)

Treebeard:


> 'There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men bad enough for such treachery. Down with Saruman!'


There's not much worse you can say. . .


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## gilgalad (Mar 16, 2003)

Thorin to Bilbo:

"What have you to say, you descendant of rats?"

Bilbo to Elves of Rivendell:

"What time by the moon is this? Your lullaby would waken a drunken goblin!"

The two best quotes from the Hobbit by miles.


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## Beleg (Mar 18, 2003)

what about these...


> This last then I will say to you, thrall Morgoth,said Húrin, "and it comes not from the lore of the Eldar, but is put into my heart in this hour. You are not the Lord of Men, and shall not be, though all Arda and Menel fall in your dominion. Beyond the Circles of the World you shall not pursue those who refuse you."




Hùrin to Morgoth. 


And this also,



> "If the Men of Hithlum are so wild and fell, of what sort are the women of that land? Do they run like deer clad only in their hair?"



Searos to Tùrin.


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## Theoden_king (Mar 18, 2003)

> ‘If Elves could fly over mountains, they might fetch the Sun to save us,’ said Gandalf.



Gandalf to Legolas


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## Lasgalen (Mar 18, 2003)

Beleg
I already gave the Saeros to Turin quote.

Beren to Thingol: "For little price do Elven-Kings sell their daughters: for gems and things made by craft."

-Lasgalen


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## Turgon (Apr 12, 2003)

You know, I'm suprised we've not had any orcish putdowns in this thread - after all they are the masters of the curse and the contumely.

_*'Who are these miserable persons?'*_ From the mouth of the Great-goblin himself - and my favourite line in The Hobbit.


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## Lasgalen (Apr 13, 2003)

Feanor: "Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos"

-Lasgalen


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## Lantarion (Apr 13, 2003)

Thorin & Co. to Bilbo:


> "Bilbo Baggins! Hobbit! You dratted hobbit! Hi! hobbit!, confusticate you, where are you?"


I always wondered where Nóm got her old name..!


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## Feanorian (Apr 14, 2003)

> But I doubt it hurt Galadriel. She's too noble to let Saruman take her down with his words.



Well she was noble, but these were the words of a Maia and had some truth to them, the Ring bearers were ghostly and that is why they were going to the West(Frodo and Bilbo). Many of the elves although weary of M-E still loved it. 

Anyways one of my favorites is 
"Get thee gone and take they due place"
as you can see its in my signature it is Feanor talking to his half brother Fingolfin in the halls of their fathers. It was Feanor simply putting his brother in his place.


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## Celebrochwen (Apr 16, 2003)

TTT: Gandalf says to Pippin
Get up you Tom fool of a Took, and get Treebeard!(Something like that)


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## Lasgalen (Apr 16, 2003)

Gwindor to Turin
yet I rue the day that I took thee from the Orcs. But for thy prowess and thy pride, still I should have love and life, and Nargothrond should yet stande a while.

(way to go, Turin)

-Lasgalen


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## baragund (Apr 17, 2003)

This is from The Mouth of Sauron as he begins to address the captains of the West in The Black Gate Opens, ROTK. I particularly enjoy The Mouth because he is so DELICIOUSLY evil 

'Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me?' he asked. 'Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!' he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. 'It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!'


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## Wonko The Sane (Apr 17, 2003)

And then there's the classic..

"FOOL OF A TOOK!!!"


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## gilgalad (Apr 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Wonko The Sane _
> *And then there's the classic..
> 
> "FOOL OF A TOOK!!!" *



If that hasn't already been posted I will be truly shocked!


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## CelebrianTiwele (Apr 18, 2003)

::is shocked this hasn't already been posted::
"Already i regret my promise to spare you life, baseborn mortal,"
or sumthing like that, will have to go look it up. any way, Thingol to Beren


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## Wonko The Sane (Apr 18, 2003)

Why didn't Thingol like Beren?


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## Beleg (Apr 18, 2003)

Thingol didn't approve of his daughter married to a Man. Guess you can say Fatherly Protection (to an extent) and Elvish Pride (which he deserved to viel since he was the High King of Beleriand.)


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## Wonko The Sane (Apr 18, 2003)

Thanks.  I think it's dumb of stupid Thingol but thanks.


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## Lasgalen (May 9, 2003)

"You'll need someone with intellegence on this mission..quest..thing"
"Well that leaves YOU out, Pip"


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## FrankSinatra (May 12, 2003)

*Well*

Thats not a Tolkien put-down, Lasgalen.

'Slinker and Stinker'

Are good ones.


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## Luthien Tunivel (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tookish-girl _
> *I always enjoy Barliman Butterbur calling Strider "Stick-At-naught" in the Prancing Pony.
> *



I thought it was Bill Ferny who calls Aragorn "Stick-at-naught Strider?"


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## Wonko The Sane (May 22, 2003)

I liked it when Bill Ferny threw up on Strider.
That was a huge insult.


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## Elfarmari (May 22, 2003)

> His hopeless challenge dauntless cried
> Fingolfin there:'Come, open wide,
> dark king, your ghastly brazen doors!
> Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors!
> ...


Also a good way to make your enemy mad enough to come out and fight you. . .


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## Lasgalen (Jun 4, 2003)

To paraphrase Turin-
May Morgoth take you and burn out your tongue!


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## Captain (Jun 14, 2003)

"I liked white better"-Gandalf


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## Rutheaserce (Nov 30, 2015)

Am I too late? this was like, 12 years ago. Oh well.

"For Fingolfin held forth his hand, saying: 'As I promised, I do now. I release thee, and remember no grievance.'

Then Fëanor took his hand in silence; but Fingolfin said: 'Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be.

Thou shalt lead and I will follow. May no new grief divide as.'

'I hear thee,' said Fëanor. 'So be it.'"

Maybe it's just me, but it sounded like Fëanor did the most classy "HAHAHA SUCKER!" line in the whole Silm XD


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## Thorin (Dec 12, 2015)

"I would cut off your head, Dwarf, if it stood but a little higher from the ground."

Eomer to Gimli upon their first meeting.


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