# Silmarillion postponed?



## Bellerophon (Jul 24, 2022)

Given the vast quantity of material in the ‘History of Middle Earth’ how different do you think the Silmarillion would have been if Christopher Tolkien had complied it 30 years later?


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## Ent (Jul 24, 2022)

Bellerophon said:


> Given the vast quantity of material in the ‘History of Middle Earth’ how different do you think the Silmarillion would have been if Christopher Tolkien had complied it 30 years later?


Difficult to tell, being on the 'speculative' end of things.
But he first published it in 1977, and issued a revision in 1999, the '2nd edition". Revisions were not substantial.
He focused then on LoTR revisions for 2004, and made some further small emendations to LoTR in 2014.

By his passing 21 years after the 1999 SIL update, he apparently had not seen the need to revise SIL again.
Whether this indicates a 'satisfaction' with the work as it was, or just a need to be on about the business of 'the rest of the story' after the 1999 work, we can never know.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 25, 2022)

Bellerophon said:


> Given the vast quantity of material in the ‘History of Middle Earth’ how different do you think the Silmarillion would have been if Christopher Tolkien had complied it 30 years later?


I'm not completely certain. I'll need to ponder on this to give you an answer with more depth, but my suspicion is that the Silmarillion would have included less and would have perhaps had a bit more dialogue between characters. However, I know not what might have truly come about. I also feel the need at times to speculate what The Silmarillion may have been like if Tolkien had finished it in his lifetime or ponder what other things he might have written if he had lived longer. 

All are valid inquiries with no clearly defined answer.


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## Elassar (Jul 27, 2022)

I agree that it would be shorter with more dialogue just like most of the Christopher Tolkien books


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 27, 2022)

Elassar said:


> I agree that it would be shorter with more dialogue just like most of the Christopher Tolkien books


Yeah. That is what I would suspect. Not saying that I would like it any more than the incredibly beautiful monologue in The Silmarillion as we are privileged to enjoy it!


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## Elassar (Jul 28, 2022)

Indeed


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 28, 2022)

Elassar said:


> Indeed


Would you actually change anything about The Silmarillion, if you could?


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## Ent (Jul 28, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> Would you actually change anything about The Silmarillion, if you could?



Now THAT is an interesting question that opens up a huge realm of issues - issues very much on my mind at the moment.
I will be eager to see Elassar's reply.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 28, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> Now THAT is an interesting question that opens up a huge realm of issues - issues very much on my mind at the moment.
> I will be eager to see Elassar's reply.


An intriguing topic indeed, and now we must wait for the discussion to begin...


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## Ent (Jul 28, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> An intriguing topic indeed, and now we must wait for the discussion to begin...



Your question was posed to Elassar, thus what rumbled through my mind awaits his esteemed first response.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jul 28, 2022)

Well-aged Enting said:


> Your question was posed to Elassar, thus what rumbled through my mind awaits his esteemed first response.


I wonder how long the wait shall be....


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## Ent (Jul 28, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I wonder how long the wait shall be....


I do not know.


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## Starbrow (Jul 28, 2022)

> Would you actually change anything about The Silmarillion, if you could?


Have Tolkien finish it.


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## Bellerophon (Jul 29, 2022)

If the book were to be shorter and with more dialogue, wouldn't that mean some of the stories had to be left out?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 29, 2022)

Who would want it to be shorter?



Starbrow said:


> Have Tolkien finish it.


This! (Though yes, it's a bit off-topic)
It would actually be far _longer _; the full fleshing-out of the stories would give the kind of detail and color seen in the unfinished-- indeed hardly begun -- rewrite of the Fall of Gondolin. That would certainly mean more dialog. 

As for what would be left out, _Akallabeth_; naturally, because the Second Age material would have similar treatment, and include the "Finished Tales", like Aldarion and Erendis, and many others.

Of course, Tolkien would need the longevity an Elf, or at least a Dwarf, for this to happen. But we can dream, can't we?


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## Elthir (Jul 29, 2022)

Christopher Tolkien notes that _The Akallabeth_ and _Of The Rings of Power_ are included* "according 
to my father's explicit intention"* -- but that's more in answer to the first question above, in any
case (*S-eS* is responding to a different scenario).

And in this light, we know that Christopher Tolkien himself regretted some things, such as noting the father of Gil-galad (he said he wished he'd left this matter obscure -- concerning which I note the genealogy in his Children of Hurin -- the page for Finwe is "missing" Gil-galad), but_ more importantly in my opinion_, Christopher appears to have regretted the lack of any framework (in-story authorship and so on), as well as his treatment of _The Fall of Doriath_.

Anyway, I think it should be generally noted that _Quenta Silmarillion_ was meant to be "brief" in one sense . . . and thus, different from the _Long Prose Versions of The Great Tales_. Or as described in HOME V, for example: _The Silmarillion_ -- *"an epitome on a small scale against a background of "histories and songs" in which the matters were recounted at greater length"* 

Christopher Tolkien's _Children of Hurin_ is a _long prose_ version of one of the Great Tales, and not intended as a chapter in _Quenta Silmarillion, _but the two are meant to complement each other within the internal legendarium.
.
And for example, in HOME we see Tolkien trying to rein himself in for the chapter on Beren and Luthien -- whenever it grew too large for the_ Quenta Silmarillion_ tradition. And the_ Fall of Gondolin_ as published in _Unfinished Tales_ is another attempt at a long prose version, again, not intended as a chapter in _Quenta Silmarillion_.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 29, 2022)

I was jes' wishin'. 😫

For something on the order of say, Sir Richard Burton's version of the Arabian Nights.


I mean, really-- is that too much to ask?


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## Elthir (Jul 29, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I was jes' wishin'. 😫



Yes. Now that there is more than one scenario to respond to in the thread, I wanted to make it clear that you were *not *saying that _Akallabeth_ was going to be left out -- with respect to the scenario given in the first post.



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> For something on the order of say, Sir Richard Burton's version of the Arabian Nights.
> View attachment 14673
> 
> I mean, really-- is that too much to ask?



No it's not too much. I mean, that collection seems a little brief for a full, Tolkienian Legendarium, but I'd be :cough: "okay" with it!



And just think of the "what is canon" threads that wouldn't exist


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 29, 2022)

Leaving room for more 🍳 threads.


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