# So why did Gandalf want to take out Smaug?



## Legolam (Feb 6, 2002)

OK, I'm sure I read this question somewhere on this board, but I can't for the life of me find it anywhere. Someone asked why Smaug was taken out in the Hobbit (apart from JRRT having no idea that he was about to write LOTR). It seems like a tiny thing to do in comparison to getting rid of the Necromancer or something like that. Someone suggested that it was a way of Bilbo finding the ring.

However, I was reading the appendices last night (just for fun, as you do  ) and I found this passage where JRRT explains the reasoning behind The Hobbit:

[Among many cares he was troubled in mind by the perilous state of the North; because he knew then already that Sauron as plotting war, and intended, as soon as he felt strong enough, to attack Rivendell. But to resist any attempt from the East to regain the lands of Angmar and the northern passes in the mountains there were now only the Dwarves of the Iron Hills. And beyond them lay the desolation of the Dragon. The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. How then could the end of Smaug be achieved?]

I just thought that I'd see if anyone cared


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## Lantarion (Feb 6, 2002)

Heh. Yes, I care, and come to think of it I've never..uh, come to think of it before! It seems obvious now that Gandalf wanted to ensure that there were no more temptations and aids Sauron could easily get his hands on. But I don't think even he knew how he would dispose of Smaug. I suppose he could have worsted him, after all he was a Maia of greater power than Dragons (if Dragons were Maiar at all). I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the Ring, because nobody knew where the hell the One even was. 
And I thinkthe whole expedition was mainly to test the strength and determination of the Hobbits, just to make certain that they were indeed worthy allies. I'm sure there is much more explained in UT, in 'The Quest to Erebor' or something like that, but I must finish the Sil again before I can delve into that.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pontifex _
> *Heh. Yes, I care, and come to think of it I've never..uh, come to think of it before! It seems obvious now that Gandalf wanted to ensure that there were no more temptations and aids Sauron could easily get his hands on. But I don't think even he knew how he would dispose of Smaug. I suppose he could have worsted him, after all he was a Maia of greater power than Dragons (if Dragons were Maiar at all). I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the Ring, because nobody knew where the hell the One even was.
> And I thinkthe whole expedition was mainly to test the strength and determination of the Hobbits, just to make certain that they were indeed worthy allies. I'm sure there is much more explained in UT, in 'The Quest to Erebor' or something like that, but I must finish the Sil again before I can delve into that.
> *






High yáll. Gandalf wanted to get rid of the dragon cause he thought that sauron might use him for some evil cause. Also between Sauron and A march up to the Grey Mountains only stood Dain and the iron mountains. Gandalf highly supected that Sauron onve he had the chance send the witch king up their to his old realm of Angmar. If this happened slowly but surely everything in Eriador would be destroyed except perhaps the grey havens and Rivendell, So Gandalf thought that if he could somehow get rid of smaug and set up another dwarf kingdom that Sauron would be much less likely to make war in Arnor and Gondor.
Hope that helps!!


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## ssgrif (Feb 13, 2002)

You make an excelent case Beleg.

I've yet to read the Sil, so I can only refer to my knowledge on The Hobbit and LOTR. What you say about Gandalf wanting to test the Hobbits worth as allies and creating a second dwarf kingdom portrays him as a great military strategist. He's looking at the bigger picture and already working towards the final onslaught in ROTK.

I need to read the Sil (got to finish LOTR again first though)


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## bunnywhippit (Feb 14, 2002)

That was so interesting, what a great thread! I hadn't thought of any connection (at all) like that. Everyday the story seems to gain some depth.


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## Aldanil (Feb 14, 2002)

For those who want all the details (or at least all the ones that John Ronald Reuel was kind enough to imagine for us), the best place to look, as Pontifex's previous post suggests, is "The Quest of Erebor" in Unfinished Tales; had it not been for Gandalf's hunch and dogged determination to get Thorin Oakenshield to hire a hobbit, we'd all be speaking Orkish!


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## 7doubles (Feb 15, 2002)

the dragon was a potential treat on the north. gandolph persieved if mordor moved they be outflnked in the north with their forces divided they would be forced to fight on two battle grounds with no rear to fall on.


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Feb 18, 2002)

What's wrong with everyone speaking Orkish? The Black Language is I would say 'musical'! Down the Elves! Up Sauron and the black hordes!


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gnashar_the_orc _
> *What's wrong with everyone speaking Orkish? The Black Language is I would say 'musical'! Down the Elves! Up Sauron and the black hordes! *





Sorry buddy but you are dead and sauron banished. The black toungue is crushed.


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## ReadWryt (Feb 19, 2002)

Gandalf wanted to get rid of Smaug because he was a Dragon and Dragons are bad creatures. Bearing in mind the two facts that The Hobbit was A) Written before Tolkien knew that it was the precursor to LotR and B) for children, a fact he later regretted, this was all the reason Gandalf needed at that time.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 19, 2002)

But later on in U.T and the apendix of lotr he states other reasons those being what i stated earlier. But i can see what you mean saying that at the time of the hobbit he needed no reason actually only that dragons were bad and or he felt a dept 2 thrain and needed 2 give his heir the key and his help or he wanted some gold which i doubt. But not even gandalf new how to get rid of the dragon he just sent them on their way to "steal" some gold and hoped something extremely lucky could happen and he had a "feeling" that if bilbo didn't go the quest would fail.


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## 7doubles (Feb 19, 2002)

your both right. i can't quote the books and page numbers it would take hours of reserch but i know i read both accounts or of simular form. 




my brain just exploaded! 99sleepy


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## UngattTrunn475 (Mar 14, 2002)

Actually, _The Silmarrillion_ is the first book he wrote concerning Middle-Earth. It never got published, because he went on writing _The Hobbit_. When he died, his son compiled it and published it.


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## Snaga (Mar 15, 2002)

In the UT version of the story (and BTW the bit in the appendix is a good substitute if you don't have a copy)... in UT Gandalf says to Thorin


> If I had no other purposes I should not be helping you at all. Great as your affairs may seem to you, they are only a small strand in the great web. I am concerned with many strands. But that should make my advice more weighty not less.


 The other strand concerning him in particular at the time is the Necromancer, and that is clear in the Hobbit from the way Gandalf rides off after the Misty Mts. Thorin is treasure hunting, Gandalf is playing geo-politics, and that seems true right from the outset, rather than Tolkien needing to retrofit things in LotR to what's in the Hobbit to make it work.


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## Harad (Mar 16, 2002)

"Gandalf is playing geopolitics" is certainly true. This adds an unexpected element to this "childrens" story. See also:

http://thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3108


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## chrysophalax (Mar 16, 2002)

Begging the Super Moderator's pardon,but dragons are NOT evil
creatures.Sly,wily,incredibly intelligent and strikingly handsome,but not evil.However,it is understandable that Gandalf(may his staff
wither)would want Smaug out of the way.He could have made the Battle
of Five Armies much more exciting if only for sport!!


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