# The Necromancer



## Ragnarok (Dec 31, 2001)

Ok, the Necromancer was Sauron and at that time he lived in Dol Goldur. But, Gandalf says he and his order went and beat him back, then the Necro went back to Mordor. My questions are was he in physical form? and how could the Order beat him back so easily?

I can only sort of answer my second question, and that is Sauron didnt have much of his strength back, and during LotR he got much more back, so thats why it was so easy for them.


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## chrome_rocknave (Dec 31, 2001)

Hmm....I'm not sure what form he was in but you are correct in assuming that he did not have all of his power back yet


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## Snaga (Dec 31, 2001)

pretty sure S needs the ring to take physical form. I'll see if I can find a quote


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## Dagorlad (Dec 31, 2001)

I do not recall any clear quotation offhand to prove this, but I definately do not believe that Sauron had any physical form in Dol Goldur. I believe his servants, probably his Nazgul, did his work. And since it took the entire white council (Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Rhadagast, and someone else I'm not remembering) just to drive him out of Mirkwood (not destroy him) when he had not even a physical form yet, I am amazed that you are saying it was "so easy" for them to drive him out. I'd say that if it was even the slightest bit harder, it would have been outright impossible.


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## Lantarion (Jan 1, 2002)

I think he didn't have physical form, (as he doesn't during the War of the Ring) and that although he had some power, he was still accumulating it and recovering his little power that he still had without the Ring. But I don't believe it was very 'easy', anyway.


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 1, 2002)

This quote should work for you.
"Some here will remember that many years ago I myself dared to pass the doors of the Necromancer in Dol Guldur, and secretly explored his ways, and found thus that our fears were true, he was none other then Sauron, our enemy of old, at lngth taking shape and power again. Some, too, will remember also that Saruman dissuaded us from open deeds against him, and for long we watched him only. Yet at last, as hi shadow grew, Saruma yielded, and the Council put forth its strength and drove the evil out of Mirkwood-and that was in he very year of the finding of this Ring: a strange chance it was. 
'bu we were to late, as Elrond foresaw. sauron also had watched us,and had long prepared against our stroke, governing Mordor from afar through Minas Morgul, where his Nine Servantsdwelt, until alll was ready. Then he gave way before us, *but only feigned to flee* , and soon after came to the Dark Tower and openly declared himself."
FoTR pgs. 263-4
That should answer why he was "defeated" so easily, as for the physical form thing, I can't help. perhaps something is said in The Hobbit, which I don't have.


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## Ragnarok (Jan 1, 2002)

Ok, Ok, I admit it wasnt that easy. But it was a lot easier than it wouldve been during the time of LotR. Thats what I meant.


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## The Phony Pope (Jan 1, 2002)

Yeah Dagorlad another big person who contributed to the attacl on Dol Guldur was Glorfindel.

One interseting tidbit of information for those of you who don't know is hte fact that Glorfindel who helped Aragorn and the Hobbits get to Rivendell and Glorfindel who died in Gondolin are one and the same. I know it sounds crazy but it is true and makes sense. I imagine that quite a few people already know that though

Also, Galadriel clensed Dol Guldur after the fall of Sauron


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## Ragnarok (Jan 1, 2002)

*Phony Pope*

Im not flaming you, but as an avid Simpson's fan, your quote is wrong!

First of all, Homer is talking about Kent Brockman in the episode where Kent wins the lottery, buys a llama which bites Ted Kennedy, and Santa's Little Helper needs a new stomache. (Like I said, I love the Simpsons ) And Marge, not Bart asks 'Whats that?


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## The Phony Pope (Jan 1, 2002)

You're comment was well noted


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## Dain Ironfoot (Jan 1, 2002)

I also an avid Simpsons fan will say" Good night!"


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## Master of maps (May 1, 2008)

Although i am also a simsons fan, i have to ask...... where did they come into this????? lol


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## Bucky (Aug 15, 2008)

he was none other then Sauron, our enemy of old, at lngth taking shape and power again.

*....Misconceptions from PJ's movies....

Folks see 'Sauron the Lighthouse' & think that's what Sauron really was - silly.

Of course The Necromancer had a shape by the time of The Hobbit!
Sauron had been 'regrowing' for almost 3000 years by this point & he CERTAINLY had a body 80 years later in Barad-Dur. 
How do I know this?

1. Gollum tells Frodo & Sam, "He only has 4 fingers on one hand but they are enough." (paraphrase but close)
That hand was certainly real to see.

2. In one of his Letters, Tolkien, discussing what would happen if Frodo had claimed the Ring at 'The Cracks of Doom' & Gollum hadn't intervened, says that the Nazgul would've shown up, distracted Frodo until Sauron could've come himself.
Sauron had to have a body to get from Barad-Dur to Mount Doom.

3. Denethor says to Pippin that Sauron will only come to Minas Tirith in final triumph when all is defeated.
Again, Sauron would have to have a body to get from Barad-Dur to Minas Tirith, unless Denethor was deceived, although Tolkien says in his essay on the Palantiri that it would've been impossible for Sauron to lie about what Denethor saw, that Sauron could only pick & choose what Denethor saw, so it must be true how he saw Sauron.*


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## Aisteru (Sep 11, 2008)

found thus that our fears were true, he was none other then Sauron, our enemy of old, at lngth taking *shape* and power again. 






I think you've over looked the key word here in trying to decifer whether Sauron has physical form again. 


Also, bucky's comments certainly straighten things out.


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