# Sauron wearing rings



## Heruhim (Mar 15, 2002)

I am re-reading LOTR for the upteenth time and something just striked me...
How is Sauron to wear again the One if his shpae is that of a fiery lidless eye? He hasn't got a finger now, has he?

Any ideas?


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## Lantarion (Mar 15, 2002)

Hmmm.. good point. I suppose if the Ring was delivered to him, and Sauron was in the same vicinity as the Ring or right next to it, his power that has been stuffed in the Ring for so long would give him the might to create his own form again.. That's just a theory, though.


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## UngattTrunn475 (Mar 15, 2002)

I agree with Pontifex, the power of the ring would turn Sauron into his original form. Maybe the orcs would try to throw it into the eye if they had gotten hold of it.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by UngattTrunn475 _
> *I agree with Pontifex, the power of the ring would turn Sauron into his original form. Maybe the orcs would try to throw it into the eye if they had gotten hold of it. *






I doubt the orcs would have thrown it. They would be "attached" to it like anyone else. It would be the nazgul giving it to Sauron. They are the only ones that could be trusted. The orcs are remember orcs.


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## UngattTrunn475 (Mar 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I suppose. The orc would probably be obsessed with it, and be killed by the Nazgul.


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## Andquellewen (Mar 15, 2002)

how come sauron didn't go invisible when he wore the ring? It probably says somewhere, but my book are packed up


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## Aroghel (Mar 15, 2002)

how come when Bilbo put on the ring, he wasn't in the "Twilight World" of sauron (white clouds and steem and air everywhere) like when Frodo put it on? . . .


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## chrysophalax (Mar 15, 2002)

Perhaps the "side effects" are different for each person/creature?


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## Cian (Mar 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Heruhim _
> I am re-reading LOTR for the upteenth time and something just striked me... How is Sauron to wear again the One if his shpae is that of a fiery lidless eye? He hasn't got a finger now, has he?
> Any ideas?



Yes he does have fingers  Gollum described how many. Sauron ultimately rebuilt his physical form in the Third Age (in the form of a Man according to JRRT, not an eye) and was de-bodied with the destruction of the Ring. Tolkien explained that Sauron was always "de-bodied" when vanquished.


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## Úlairi (Mar 16, 2002)

Cian beat me to it. Sauron was able to take physical form in LoTR, however, the form of an eye was more suitable for his purposes. Sauron did not go invisible because he could control the Ring, and if anyone knew how to use the Ring properly, they wouldn't turn invisible either, because I have read somewhere that the Ring only made you invisible if you either didn't know how to use it properly, or if you wanted to use it specifically for that purpose. As for Bilbo not going into the 'Wraith World', that is a great question. When Bilbo did, Sauron had not 'arisen' in might, nor had he called the Ring to him as maybe as which to why Bilbo wasn't sent to the 'Wraith World' where as Frodo was because Sauron had declared himself and had called the Ring to him.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ulairi _
> *Cian beat me to it. Sauron was able to take physical form in LoTR, however, the form of an eye was more suitable for his purposes. Sauron did not go invisible because he could control the Ring, and if anyone knew how to use the Ring properly, they wouldn't turn invisible either, because I have read somewhere that the Ring only made you invisible if you either didn't know how to use it properly, or if you wanted to use it specifically for that purpose. As for Bilbo not going into the 'Wraith World', that is a great question. When Bilbo did, Sauron had not 'arisen' in might, nor had he called the Ring to him as maybe as which to why Bilbo wasn't sent to the 'Wraith World' where as Frodo was because Sauron had declared himself and had called the Ring to him. *





THats right.


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## Kelkorian (Mar 16, 2002)

Who here thinks Sauron is a pansy for wearing rings?

ME!
I do!
Me too!
Me three!
Agree with that, yup!
Got a point there, John!
Hey! Give me your lunch money!!


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## gimli_alvevenn (Mar 16, 2002)

> how come when Bilbo put on the ring, he wasn't in the "Twilight World" of sauron (white clouds and steem and air everywhere) like when Frodo put it on? . . .



It was probably because Saurons spirit had not yet started to look for the ring after he was slayed by Isildur. You must remember that it takes about twenty years for Frodo to wander to Bree and Rivendell, after reciving the ring from Bilbo.


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## Kelkorian (Mar 16, 2002)

Is it written in the book about the "Twilight World" or is it another invention of PJ? I don't recall any passage mentioning it...


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## Lantarion (Mar 16, 2002)

It's in the book. And it states also that the ELf-lord at the Ford of Bruinen, Glorfindel, had such a negative effect on the Nazgûl because Elves (like Maiar) could travel and live between the Seen and the Unseen world. I think the twilight zone  that Frodo goes into is the Unseen, where the true forms of the Nazgûl dwell, among other horrible things, I imagine.


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## Heruhim (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Sauron wearing rings*



> _Originally posted by Cian _
> *
> 
> Yes he does have fingers  Gollum described how many. Sauron ultimately rebuilt his physical form in the Third Age (in the form of a Man according to JRRT, not an eye) and was de-bodied with the destruction of the Ring. Tolkien explained that Sauron was always "de-bodied" when vanquished. *



Sorry, but wasn't Gollum metaphorical, or even delusional? As far as I have misinterpreted the book, Sauron, having put most of his power into the ring, was not strong enough to changing shapes again, (or assuming a beautiful and noble and thereby deceitful appearance). I had it in my mind that the eye was the only shape Sauron was strong enough to assume.


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## Úlairi (Mar 18, 2002)

No Cian, he could take physical form, Gollum was being tortured, but he wasn't dillusional. The form of the Eye is more suited to Sauron, becuase with that form it is easier for him to see further than in his physical form.


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## Cian (Mar 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ulairi _
> Cian beat me to it. Sauron was able to take physical form in LoTR, however, the form of an eye was more suitable for his purposes. ...



Indeed I didn't beat you to the second part, because I don't agree with it  Tolkien described Sauron as taking the form of a man in the Third Age, not an eye.


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## Cian (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Sauron wearing rings*



> _Originally posted by Heruhim _
> Sorry, but wasn't Gollum metaphorical, or even delusional? As far as I have misinterpreted the book, Sauron, having put most of his power into the ring, was not strong enough to changing shapes again, (or assuming a beautiful and noble and thereby deceitful appearance). I had it in my mind that the eye was the only shape Sauron was strong enough to assume.




Tolkien described that it took Sauron "longer" (JRRT's choice of word) to rebuild his form after the Last Alliance than it had after the fall of Númenor. In the letter I am thinking of, JRRT does end that it was impossible for Sauron to rebuild after the destruction of the Ring (I note, not loss).

Tolkien can write: _"I note your remarks about Sauron. He was always de-bodied when vanquished."_ because Sauron was indeed 'debodied' again after Gollums fall. For myself I see no reason to think that Gollum's description was metaphorical. I'll add a further quote regarding Sauron's form as a Man when I get me hands on it.

typo-fix edit.


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## Cian (Mar 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ulairi _
> No Cian, he could take physical form, Gollum was being tortured, but he wasn't dillusional.



I'm guessing this is a mis-type  because I'm indeed saying that Sauron took physical form in the Third Age.


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## Cian (Mar 18, 2002)

A quote from Tolkien to consider here (just one of several):



> "In the contest with the Palantír Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form their power must be far greater when actually physically present. Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature but not gigantic. ..." JRRT


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## Úlairi (Mar 20, 2002)

I'm currently having an argument with the *'hard'* people in another thread about this subject. Disembodied spirits eventually rebuild themselves and become re-embodied spirits over long periods of time. Sauron could take the form of both an eye and a man as he did in the battle of the Last Alliance. The eye was a spiritual form of his, as the body was a physical form. He could take both and be both a man and an eye Cian.


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