# Eowyn's Love



## Athelas (Dec 14, 2002)

I just re-read ROTK again, and again it strikes me that Eowyn just too conveniently falls for Faramir. Her love for Aragorn is just a memory and she's all set. I just don't buy it. She is a woman of such passion, that to suddenly decide she wants to be a nurse and raise little Gondorlings just seems contrived. Let me see if I can break it down into a poll:


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## Maeglin (Dec 14, 2002)

Well this is a tough one, but I'd say that she really did fall for Faramir, although you're right it did seem all too convenient, but she must have just realized that she couldn't contend with Arwen's hotness and went for Faramir instead of Aragorn, I guess the next best thing to marrying the King of Gondor is to marry the Steward, and it also might have just been lust for Aragorn, not love, I mean she had only just met Aragorn, how could she be in love with him already? Oh then again she had only just met Faramir too, ehh I dunno, it could go either way, but I'm voting that she really loved Faramir, although I think that there should be an option up there for it not being either one or that it could be both.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 14, 2002)

From _The Steward and the King_ :



> And Éowyn looked at Faramir long and steadily; and Faramir said: 'Do not scorn pity that is the gift of a gentle heart, Éowyn! But I do not offer you my pity. For you are a lady high and valiant and have
> yourself won renown that shall not be forgotten; and you are a lady
> beautiful, I deem, beyond even the words of the Elven-tongue to tell.
> And I love you. Once I pitied your sorrow. But now, were you
> ...



Many people say that Eowyn's love for Faramir isn't true and genuine. I just don't see it that way. This is what a friend of mine said on this matter and this is my exact opinion: 
I've always figured that Aragorn was what Eowyn _thought_ she wanted - what spirited young woman wouldn't? But in Faramir she found what she then realized was the man she truly wanted and needed - the person who completed her and she then understood how Aragorn felt about Arwen. 
Haven't many people had that experience in their lives? I know I have. That fascination/longing for a distant object of one's affections - it's a one-sided infatuation with an idea, not the joy of deep recognition and exchange that marks love.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 15, 2002)

I took it as Eowyn was cured after the Houses of Healing. Her illness wasnt physical (minus the Nazgul encounter), it was emotional. She was "cold" and "hard-hearted" as a result from Wormtongue's poisonous words. Her love for Aragorn and her stubborness (inculding her role as a shield-maiden) was all from this illness that Grima brought upon her. It forced her to lose her innocence, and be irrational; to Theoden it made him cowardly.

Eowyn was only in love with Aragorn because of Grimas poison, which forced her to be something she in reality was not. In the RotK (i dont feel like getting it to get a quote) but it says something about after she was cured at the Houses of Healing and fell in love with Faramir, she had no desire to go to battle anymore. This proves that she was not a Valkyrie-like person, instead she was an ordinary woman who had been almost destroyed by Grimas poisonous tongue.

But, if she wasnt "poisoned" in the first place she never would have killed the Witch King, therefore Gondor may not have been liberated. So, every evil has its good.


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## ILLOTRTM (Dec 15, 2002)

The way I've always seen it (in laymen's terms) is that ... well, Eowyn had a crush on Aragorn. She wasn't really in love with him. Then she met Faramir and really knew true love..... feel free to correct me if there is proof I am wrong that I have not seen


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## Lantarion (Dec 16, 2002)

It has always been MO that Tolkien did not express romantic relationships very well in the LotR, and in the Sil it's only a bit better because of the 'mythological' setting. But I do think that Éowyn did actually love Faramir, despite the sudden appropriateness, and only looked up to Aragorn as a King and potential ruler.


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## Lindir (Dec 16, 2002)

Éowyn hero worshipped Aragorn. She saw in him first and foremost the man who could be King, the valiant hero and so forth. She saw in him a chance for glory. All the desirable things the saw in Aragorn, she mistook for romantic love, when it was more the love for a battle leader (she was after all a shield maid). When Faramir opened his heart to her, she came to realise this and was so finally able to admit her love for him.


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## Elendur (Dec 16, 2002)

I totally agree with Ithrynluin. Appears to me like a sensible interpretation gleened directly from the text.


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## Mrs. Maggott (Dec 16, 2002)

There is another thing to consider in this situation, and that is Eowyn's knowledge of the interest of Grima Wormtongue. She was in close proximity to the King who was becoming more and more frail. She was, if you will, his primary care-giver. Grima was also almost constantly in the King's presence; he could not afford it to be otherwise lest someone wrest Theoden's will from his keeping. That means that day after day, Eowyn was subjected to Grima's "attentions" whether they were actually stated or not. Women know what it is like to be forced into close proximity with someone who "undresses" them with their eyes and whose every utterance may have a double meaning. Furthermore, as Grima grew in importance to Theoden, the King might not have been averse to a "match" between his trusted counsellor and his niece, especially as he had grown to mistrust Eomer. This sort of sexually charged situation can make the man/woman relationship into something ugly and degenerate in the mind of a maiden like Eowny. 

Then, into this intolerable situation comes Aragorn. He is a breath of clean, fresh air: courageous, manly and courteous. No wonder the wounded, beset Eowyn casts her eyes on him as a means of fleeing her trap. After all, if he is in fact, the true King of Gondor - and she can interest him in her person - Theoden would gladly betroth her to him and move her forever beyond the reach of Grima and Theoden! 

In the Houses of Healing, Grima is gone and, for all intents and purposes, so is Aragorn. The King is dead and her brother is King, so she need not fear that she will be unworthily wed. She has proven her strength and courage to even _her_ satisfaction - after all, her name will live forever in the annals of Middle Earth as the maiden who slew the great Captain of the Nazgul. But after all that has happened, she still is "unwell"; her inner despair has not healed. The release of death has not come and the clash of arms and victory have proven less satisfactory than she had believed would be the case. 

Into this "emptiness" comes Faramir. She knows his story and is drawn to his courage as she was drawn to Aragorn's. Also, he is fair of face but even more importantly, he is not "unmindful" of her as was her uncle and brother (except for their familial love, Eowyn of Rohan was still a woman and therefore of less importance than a male child would have been), nor is he "uninterested" in her as a woman as was Aragorn. Faramir is drawn to her as was Grima, but his "affection" does not fill her with rage and self-loathing. Furthermore, he treats her very much as an equal, a warrior proven in battle and worth of respect. This is new - and quite heady - for remember, Eowyn is yet very young. All of these conflicting emotions and impressions especially superimposed upon her physical suffering, would have the effect of acting _very quickly_ and, hence, the "romance" between the future Prince of Ithilien and the Golden Lady of Rohan is born.

The situation may appear to be "convenient", but actually Tolkien does develop the matter quite fully if one is paying attention to the story as it progresses.


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## ILLOTRTM (Dec 16, 2002)

(Do you all have a thesaurus handy or did you use all of those BIG words on accident? )
Well, once again, someone has expressed my thoughts about ten times better than I have. *sigh* Oh well. Mrs. Maggot has done a wonderful job of explaining it... I won't steal her thunder....


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 16, 2002)

I agree with Mrs. Maggott, but I thought Grima had poisoned her more with his words as he did with Theoden. In Theodens case he was made cowardly and old, while Eowyn was made cold and bitter, into a shield maiden who loved battle and was selfish.

At least thats how I thought of it, but once again, Tolkiens works can be interpreted in sooo many ways.


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## HLGStrider (Dec 17, 2002)

I agree with Mrs. Maggot, though I had never thought it out that fully.

I have been involved in a crush for the last seven years of my life without the guy taking any interest in me, so I always saw Eowyn as a literary paralell... she just got lucky and found Faramir. Not me... sigh...


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## Mrs. Maggott (Dec 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by HLGStrider _
> *I agree with Mrs. Maggot, though I had never thought it out that fully.
> 
> I have been involved in a crush for the last seven years of my life without the guy taking any interest in me, so I always saw Eowyn as a literary paralell... she just got lucky and found Faramir. Not me... sigh... *


And I'm sure that as soon as you find another "interest" or someone begins to show interest in you, your "unrequited love" might suddenly "discover" you. It's amazing how being "unavailable" "ups the ante" so to speak, in any situation. It think it has to do with something called "forbidden fruit". Anyway, sometimes the things we wait longest for are well worth the wait! Good luck!


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## HLGStrider (Dec 17, 2002)

oooh... forbidden fruit...

Well, I did get asked out for the first time this week (Not Aragorn... and I really don't think he's Faramir.). Said yes after negotiating the terms and making it a group dating situation... Get to go to the Two Towers...


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## Halasían (Dec 20, 2002)

Wow! I bow to Mrs Maggot who says what I wanted to say, only so much better!


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 21, 2002)

Well,that is difficult question .In my opinion she loved Aragorn as a protoype of a perfect man.But she didn't know him as a person.And then after Faramir met her she realized he was her destiny,because he wasn't perfect,he was a man.At the same time Aragorn was at higher level,I mean he wasn't usual man of noble origin.He was a person who had Numenorian blood in his veins and who had some of the elven wisdom in his heart and mind.


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## Earendil (Dec 22, 2002)

this is really hard!! but i don't really think she was in love with Aragorn...maybe the reputation of Aragorn and how charming he was...i mean she probably hadn't met a man like Aragorn in a while i'm guessing....and she knew she couldn't contend with Arwen anyways...but i think her loving Faramir is very good...he was a man...and grew up with the same surroundings as her...and Aragorn was way to wise and had more of an elvish influence in his heart and in his mind.....


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## Mrs. Maggott (Dec 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Earendil _
> *this is really hard!! but i don't really think she was in love with Aragorn...maybe the reputation of Aragorn and how charming he was...i mean she probably hadn't met a man like Aragorn in a while i'm guessing....and she knew she couldn't contend with Arwen anyways...but i think her loving Faramir is very good...he was a man...and grew up with the same surroundings as her...and Aragorn was way to wise and had more of an elvish influence in his heart and in his mind..... *



Well, in the film I really didn't see to many "eligible" fellows hanging about Meduseld, so doubtless, the mysterious and "nice looking" warrior would have appealed to Eowyn in her obvious distress. 

However, in the book, Eowyn hears Aragorn's title proclaimed before the King's door and sees in him the opportunity to escape a life that has become intolerable for her in Rohan. _That_ is the "love" that she has for this stranger; it is not a bond of affection, but a cry for help from a young woman who feels herself "trapped" in a situation without hope or help.


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## Earendil (Dec 22, 2002)

yes exactly so all in all she did not love Aragorn for himself but because he was different and mysterious....and because of his title.....


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## Elendur (Dec 23, 2002)

Lets not also forget that Faramir was a "great" catch. If I had to have Faramir as a second choice I still would have done very well indeed! I don't think that Eowyn is taking second best by settling for Faramir. For as Faramir's father said...

"... I know you well. Ever your desire is to appear lordly and generous as a king of old, gracious, gentle. That may well befit one of the high race, if he sits in power and peace but in desparate hours gentleness may be repaid with death."

"so be it." said Faramir

Or

"For myself, " said Faramir " I would see the White Tree in flower again in the court of the kings, and the silver crown return, and Minas Tirith in Peace: Minas Arnor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens: not a mistress of many slaves, nay, not even a kind mistress of willing slaves. ... but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor...

Or

"but fear no more! I would not take this thing [ ring], if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her..."

Who else refused the ring? Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel... Faramir is up there amongst the great.

And lets not forget the priase if Samwise Gamgee.. 

"..But i can say this: you have an air too, sir , that reminds me of, of - well, Gandalf, of Wizards."

Faramir? doesn't sound like a poor second choice to me. I like to think it as Faramir and Eowyn were made for each other just as Aragorn and Arwen were made for each other


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## HLGStrider (Dec 23, 2002)

Yes... he is the hope for all of us desperate Eowyn Types...

sigh... 

It would be hard to belittle Faramir, but I've seen it done... Of course, his movie character was a little different.

Those changes were SHAMEFUL!


Sigh...


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## Elendur (Dec 23, 2002)

Faramir was everything that Boromir was and more. How great Gondor must have been if in it's shadow there were still folk like Faramir!

Warrier, Scholar, wise, gentle, great leader of men, able to face the "shadows of evil in the air". For me he is the Gondor equivalent of Halbarad except he lived.


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## Húrin Thalion (Dec 23, 2002)

Or the Gondor equivalent of the much earlier Elendur ? For of him it is said that he was the noblest of the sons of Isildur and most like to hi sgrandsire, Elendil. Anyway he (Faramir) was a shadow of the royal nobility of the kings of old, though not as high in Faramir as in Aragorn. I think that the fact tha Frodo sensed this nobility closer and less distant must be because Faramir had grown up as the son of the Steward and learned kingly ways.

Húrin thalion


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## Halasían (Dec 26, 2002)

I have to say I enjoyed Éowyn's character alot in the books the first time I read it. She could see fairness in Faramir, and her heart called out to him though she wished to remain tough on the outside and wnated death as an honorable life.
Faramir and Éowyn... the true couple of the Trilogy.


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## Kathl85 (Apr 27, 2003)

In the book, I think Eowyn and Faramir are destined to be together but in the movie.. I can't help but feel for Aragon and Eowyn and how they are drawn toward one another.. They seemed to have something deeper than lust. I guess in the book, I agree that Eowyn and Faramir are good together but in the movie.. I am not sure.. I guess I have to see the third one -- see Eowyn and Faramir together--- to decide.


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## Rhiannon (Apr 28, 2003)

Most everyone has expressed my opinion already (and very eloquently, applause all around), but briefly; Eowyn did love Faramir, but it was, as Faramir himself said later in the book, not the love of a woman for a man, but a young soldier for a great captain- she loved him as a king, and as a way to escape, but not as a man. They didn't make this clear in the movie, which I am very irritated about. As for Faramir, he saw all this when Eowyn didn't, and it was his understanding that helped heal her. I say that by the time that great and wonderful scene on the wall happened, Eowyn was already in love with Faramir as she had never been with Aragorn, but she did not understand or did not want to understand what she was feeling and tried to ignore it.


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## Elfhelm25 (May 3, 2003)

Call me a wee bit cynical, but I never got that sense of "true love" at any time between Eowyn and Faramir. As Treebard would say, it was too "hasty". I didnt sense that feeling of great love like that of Aroagorn and Arwen, probably because there was no test of love, there was no length in it. I dont know, when I read it , the first thing I felt was a sense of dissatisfaction. It didnt feel right, it felt almost like Tolkien put them together "hastily " because he wanted something for Eowyn, a consolation prize, if you will. I definetly did not think they had real love, maybe if they spent a few years as friends and then got together... I always feel disappointed that my high spirited gal, the ture heroine of the book, gave up kind of. And I dont like that.


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## Rhiannon (May 3, 2003)

Elfhelm, here's what Tolkien had to say:



> Criticism of the speed of the relationship or 'love' of Faramir and Eowyn. In my experience feelings and decisions ripen very quickly (as measured by mere 'clock-time', which is actually not justly applicable) in periods of great stress, and especially under the expectation of imminent death. And I do _not_ think that persons of high estate and breeding need all the petty fencing and approaches in matters of 'love'. This tale dos not deal with a period of 'Courtly Love' and its pretences; but with a culture more primitive (sc. less corrupt) and nobler.



From _The Letters of JRR Tolkien_, Letter #244- 'Comments on a criticsm concerning Faramir & Eowyn'. 

I don't think the speed of their relationship lessens it; certainly I think it is better to know a person for some time when you fall in love with them, but I'm not so sure that it's vital for the love to be 'real' (mind you, I have never been in love so all my knowledge is vicarious). I also don't think Eowyn 'gave up', but I have to cut this short. "I'll be back."


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## Athelas (May 3, 2003)

It's not how long you know the person as how well you get to know them; Faramir and Eowyn made quick choices that defined their character. You can fall in love with someone who commits a heroic act, par example.


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## FIRELILY (May 7, 2003)

*She Needed Faramir*

I think Mrs. Maggot has hit the nail on the head. What Eowyn feared most was a cage-literally and figuratively. In an oppressive household with Grima's eyes on her 24/7 & her king & kingdom on the downslide, Aragorn must've truly seemed like a savior to her. So powerful& sure of purpose. He represented a complete turn-around in Eowyn's life. Remember how many times she pled to go, to be allowed to fight. Until finally, putting her pride aside, she BEGGED Aragorn. She was desperate to take action, to help shape her own destiny. I absolutely do not agree that Grima's spell was the source of Eowyn's strong will, bold nature and willingness to fight. On the contrary, I think these are some of her most defining traits&are what KEPT Eowyn from falling under Grima's spell. Aragorn himself called her "shieldmaiden". In Gondor, Eowyn surpassed her own desire for valor when she slew the Wraith. BUT, she was still a woman unfulfilled. She longed to give her heart up as well, to be able to let her guard down. Intuitive, empathetic, yet strong, Faramir gently drew her out of the "armor" she'd always worn. Faramir sensed she needed this release/freedom (Am I sounding like a cheesy romance novel?). This was something Aragorn couldn't give her. Couldn't picture Eowyn letting herself get teary in front of Aragorn about not having an eastward-facing window no matter how vulnerable she was. There was a sense of delight and soothing in Faramir's words & tone when he spoke to Eowyn. Under the emotional surface, she recognized this. She just had to permit herself to love someone this way.
Eowyn didn't settle for Faramir. They were (sniff) meant for each other.


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## Rhiannon (May 7, 2003)

Amen, Firelily!


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## FIRELILY (May 7, 2003)

Well, I finally had to put in my 2 cents after hearing this 2nd best theory about Faramir one too many times. Eowyn is so totally frustrated by all the constraints she must deal with. She's independent and doesn't want to sit back and "take it". She wants a piece of the action too and I think Aragorn telling her to stay home both hurt her and put her "over the edge". After that, she wasn't asking for anyone's permission. The rejection by Aragorn really set the ball rolling and our boy Faramir picked it up.


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