# Moria



## Phyre Krath (Jan 5, 2002)

Why did the dwarves choose a spot like Moria to mine for riches and fortunes??


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## Grond (Jan 5, 2002)

An easy one word answer for you................."mithril"...................


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## Walter (Jan 5, 2002)

Grond, are You sure they didn't choose it because of the nice music there, especially the bass-drum?


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## Aldanil (Jan 5, 2002)

*I'm with my old friend Battering-Ram here on that last one*

(with Walter's percussive irony as counterpoint)

Grond hammers the essential point home precisely:


"The wealth of Moria was not in gold and jewels, the toys of the Dwarves; nor in iron, their servant. . . For here alone in the world was found Moria-silver, or true-silver as some have called it: _mithril_is the Elvish name. The Dwarves have a name which they do not tell. Its worth was ten times that of gold, and now it is beyond price [as Gandalf says in answer to Sam's asking after Gimli's song which he so admires] . . . The Dwarves tell no tale; but even as _mithril_was the foundation of their wealth, so also was it their destruction: they delved too greedily and too deep, and disturbed that from which they fled, Durin's Bane."


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## Grond (Jan 5, 2002)

Aldanil, I appreciate your supportive post but am insulted by your battering ram comment. The Grond you post to is not the battering ram. The ram t'was merely a namesake of mine. I am Grond, Mace of Melkor, Hammer of Hate and the Underworld, wielded against the mighty Elf-lord and Elf-king Fingolfin... yada, yada, yada....


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## chrome_rocknave (Jan 7, 2002)

Yes, but they couldn't have known that _mithril_ was there before they started mining. What drew them to Moria?


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## Ragnarok (Jan 7, 2002)

Originally, it was gold, jewels, and silver that lured them there. _Then_ they found mithril and dug too deep and awokened the Balrog.


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## Walter (Jan 7, 2002)

Nah, they were born - or better put - there, after Aulë had made them and Erú had postponed their release date until the awakening of the firstborn...

...at least that's how I read it in the Sil (even if it's not put precisely that way)!


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## Dain Ironfoot (Jan 7, 2002)

Walter is right....


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## Aiwendil (Jan 15, 2002)

So...when then were the Dwarfs (which by the way is the correct plural, as stated by Tolkien) released. In order to delve deep enough to unleash the trapped Balogs, they either had to dig a long time or they were released much later than the coming of the second born (Man).


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## Gothmog (Jan 15, 2002)

> Concerning the beginning of the Dwarves strange tales are told both by the Eldar and by the Dwarves themselves; But since these things lie far back beyond our days little is said of them here. Durin is the name that the Dwarves used for the eldest of the Severn fathers of their race, and the ancestor of of all the kings of the Longbeards.39 he slept alone, until in the deeps of time and the awakening of that people he came to Azanulbizar, and in the caves above Kheled-zâram in the east of the Misty Mountains he made his dwelling, where afterwards were the Mines of Moria renownd in song.
> There he lived so long that he was known far and wide as Durin the Deathless. yet in the end he died before the Elder Days had passed, and his tomb was in Khazad-dûm


from Appendix A: The Lord Of The Rings.

So basically Durin Liked the View.


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## Galan`Black (Jan 18, 2002)

Geez, Durin sure knows how to choose a spot for mining or where to dwell for the rest of life.


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## Orin (Jan 20, 2002)

*Thorin and Company in moria?*

In the Hobbit when Thorin and the troop where taken into the mountains by the Goblins, was that Moria? Gandalf said he had been in before. Was this the time?


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## Grond (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: Thorin and Company in moria?*



> _Originally posted by Orin _
> *In the Hobbit when Thorin and the troop where taken into the mountains by the Goblins, was that Moria? Gandalf said he had been in before. Was this the time? *


No, Thorin and Bilbo went through the High Pass which is closer to Rivendell and is about 200 miles north of Moria.


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## Walter (Jan 20, 2002)

Nonetheless I wonder if there was a connection between Moria and the "cave" where Bilbo met Gollum. I mean it was in Moria that Gollum showed up again for the first time, I wonder if it wasn't his old place under the mountains where Gollum had withdrawn after his escape...


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## Thorondor (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: Thorin and Company in moria?*



> _Originally posted by Orin _
> *In the Hobbit when Thorin and the troop where taken into the mountains by the Goblins, was that Moria? Gandalf said he had been in before. Was this the time? *



I am not at all sure, but wasn't Gandalf looking for Thror or Thrain when he said he was in Moria before?


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## Grond (Jan 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Walter _
> *Nonetheless I wonder if there was a connection between Moria and the "cave" where Bilbo met Gollum. I mean it was in Moria that Gollum showed up again for the first time, I wonder if it wasn't his old place under the mountains where Gollum had withdrawn after his escape... *


No Walter. I read somewhere in either HoMe or UT that Gollum made his way from his escape from the Elves of Thranduil and was trying to go West to find the Shire for himself. He knew the High Pass would be watched and took the Mines instead. He entered through the East door and was trapped because he didn't know how to open the West door. 

I'll try to find where I read this and will get back to you on the source of the info.


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## Eledhwen (Apr 16, 2008)

*Re: Thorin and Company in moria?*



Thorondor said:


> I am not at all sure, but wasn't Gandalf looking for Thror or Thrain when he said he was in Moria before?


Gandalf went to Dol Guldur, where he found Thrain and received the map and key. I haven't found a reference that spells out when Gandalf previously visited Moria, but possibilities are:


He visited it when the original Dwarf colony was still in situ, 'delving too deep'.
He visited after the mine was abandoned (and possibly already inhabited by Orc folk).
He visited the mine when Balin was Lord of Moria. 

I would favour the first option, as it would take great evil to unnerve Gandalf (favouring cruel Caradhras over the abandoned mine); and the knowledge of an unconquered balrog in residence would do it.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Apr 17, 2008)

What I don't understand is. When Gandalf and the Balrog fell down the bridge and through water and flame and all, where were they? I know its said something about the stairs of Durin and Durin's tower? Is this tower where Durin made his dwelling? at the top of the mountain where the Balrog was smote? It seems like this area was legendary or something, like Gandalf I believe said something about the area he was in though was forgotten by the dwarves or many didn't believe it existed? What was this area and what happened here?


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## Eledhwen (Apr 18, 2008)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> ...the stairs of Durin and Durin's tower? Is this tower where Durin made his dwelling?



Celebdil (Zirakzigil in the dwarf tongue) was a peak in the Misty Mountains, the western-most of a group of three including Caradhras and Fanuidhol. It stood above the Dwarf city of Khazad-dûm (Moria). On the top of Zirakzigil stood Durin's Tower, where Gandalf fought with the Balrog in the Battle of the Peak. The battle caused the destruction of the secret stair that led to it; and as you rightly said, many doubted it still existed. I don't know if there is more written about the stair and tower - but not in the books I've got round to reading! From Gandalf's description, It seemed to be the route from the water to the peak.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Apr 18, 2008)

Phyre Krath said:


> Why did the dwarves choose a spot like Moria to mine for riches and fortunes??



Because that's where the mithril was.

Barley


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## Master of maps (Apr 26, 2008)

Anywho, who really knows why the dwarfs riginally began digging under moria. But then again, they have chosen many, many mountains to dig under. Whats to say they didnt just get lucky?


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## Sauron (Jun 1, 2008)

I was contemplating starting my own thread, but since this one is already in existence...

I have heard that Moria (minus the last Balrog, which Gandalf the Gray dispatched in the preceding Third Age) would be retaken by Durin's Folk sometime during the Fourth Age.

Would this mean that Erebor (the Lonely Mountain) would left uninhabited as the dwarves ventured back to their ancestral homeland, or would there actually be three main colonies east of the Blue Mountains: Erebor, Moria (Khazad Dum), and the Glittering Caves? Can anyone clarify this for me?


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## Tar-Surion (Jul 23, 2008)

Dwarves inhabited mountains, in fact they inhabited all the mountains of Middle Earth except the White Mountains in Gondor. After the War of the Ring Gimli repaired this omission by establishing a colony in the Glittering Caves of Arglond. 

It may well be that there were many Dwarf settlements in the Misty Mountains at one point but that Moria grew to overshadow the rest by virtue of its mineral wealth, mithril of course, but also iron, gemstones and possibly even coal.

Eventually most of the other dwarf mansions in the Misty Mountains would have been abandoned to the goblins and Khazad-dum would have become the 'capital' of the Dwarf world, especially since the settlements in the Blue Mounains, Norgrod and Belgost, were obliterated in the drowning of Belariand.


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