# who is the witch king



## SACHMO (Jan 13, 2003)

I know i must sound like a reall dumbass, but i dont actually know who the witch king is. Could someone please help me out here, 
it would really help


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## Deleted member 3778 (Jan 13, 2003)

he's, of course, a nazghul...im not sure, but i think he might have been a lord from numenor before he was corrupted by sauron...


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## Aulë (Jan 13, 2003)

The Witch King Of Angmar is the title taken by the Lord of the Nazgûl in the middle of the Third Age, when he founded the northern realm of Angmar in opposition to the northern lands of the Dúnedain.


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## Lt Ivan (Feb 1, 2015)

Well the Identity of the Nazguls have been the Greatest questions of Middle Earth.

First to get this straight, many people get confused that his original mannish kingdom was Angmar. Wrong Angmar was his second ruling when he was a wraith.

Second, we already know one identity of the Nazguls definitely, Khamul, was once a Easterling of Rhun. He his the one who mainly hunts down the Hobbits in the Shire.

Thirdly, Tolkien has said that three of the Nazguls (including, the Witch King) were of Numenor.

I will soon post a thread soon that will search for his identity, but until then that's all we know.


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## Alcuin (Feb 6, 2015)

I wrote an essay on this some years ago. You can find it here.

The evidence points to a Númenórean prince who lived during the reigns of Tar-Minastir, Tar-Ciryatan, and Tar-Atanamir. I suspect he was the royal governor of Umbar, which means he most likely received his Ring of Power while living in Umbar sometime during the early- or mid-eighteenth century of the Second Age (i.e., the first half of the 1700s). He and the other two Númenóreans with Rings of Power must have returned to Númenor for a time. He seems to have been a close advisor to both Tar-Ciryatan, who forced his father to resign early, and Tar-Atanamir, who rejected the Númenórean acceptance of death (cf. Aragorn’s acceptance of death in the Appendices of _Return of the King_) and defied a formal embassy from Valinor on his religious views. 

From the evidence we have, I think we can say that he was probably born around 1650, participated in the Númenórean expeditionary force to help Gil-galad in 1700, served as governor of Umbar, after which he returned to Númenor. As a member of the royal house and possibly the younger son of a king, he would normally have lived about 400 years. If, like Bilbo, he showed no signs of age, extraordinarily long life, and unusual mental and physical vigor, his example would have encouraged Tar-Atanamir to defy the Valar: before he disappeared and returned to Middle-earth, he was no doubt recognized as long-lived even for a Númenórean, well beyond 400 years. Tale of Years says the Nazgûl first appeared in 2251; that suggests he returned to Middle Earth under Sauron’s dominion sometime between 2100 and 2150 in the Second Age. 

If Glorfindel returned to Middle-earth in the 1600s of the Second Age to help the Eldar still in Middle-earth fight Sauron (that’s one of Tolkien’s explanations; though another is that he retuned with Gandalf sometime after 1000 in the Third Age), then Glorfindel probably knew the Lord of the Nazgûl not only as a living man, but as a good and noble man before he received a Ring of Power. 

Elrond almost certainly knew him. 

Remember what Gandalf told Frodo in “The Shadow of the Past” at the beginning of _Fellowship of the Ring_:


> A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. … e fades: he becomes in the end invisible permanently, and walks in the twilight under the eye of the dark power that rules the Rings. Yes, sooner or later – later, if he is strong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last – sooner or later the dark power will devour him.


Gandalf is describing the three Númenóreans who succumbed to Sauron’s Rings, and most particularly the one that became the Witch King, the Lord of the Nazgûl.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 6, 2015)

Alcuin said:


> I wrote an essay on this some years ago. You can find it here.
> 
> The evidence points to a Númenórean prince who lived during the reigns of Tar-Minastir, Tar-Ciryatan, and Tar-Atanamir. I suspect he was the royal governor of Umbar, which means he most likely received his Ring of Power while living in Umbar sometime during the early- or mid-eighteenth century of the Second Age (i.e., the first half of the 1700s). He and the other two Númenóreans with Rings of Power must have returned to Númenor for a time. He seems to have been a close advisor to both Tar-Ciryatan, who forced his father to resign early, and Tar-Atanamir, who rejected the Númenórean acceptance of death (cf. Aragorn’s acceptance of death in the Appendices of _Return of the King_) and defied a formal embassy from Valinor on his religious views.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this. The Nazgul are one of the many things in Middle Earth that has always fascinated me, their origins etc. This was fascinating and I look forward to reading your essay.


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## Lt Ivan (Feb 8, 2015)

Thanks Alcuin, Isilmo could be a favourable candidate because the year the rings were completed was the time around Tar Telperien who was a queen, so she shouldn't of had them, but her brother second in line might of received the ring.

But we I start getting on my research on the Witch King's Identity and other Nazguls research, I will mention yours, you might even comment any ideas and further knowledge.


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## Alcuin (Feb 8, 2015)

Lt Ivan said:


> Isilmo could be a favourable candidate because the year the rings were completed was the time around Tar Telperien who was a queen, so she shouldn't of had them, but her brother second in line might of received the ring.


 *Lt Ivan*, Isilmo might be too old for this task. 

The Eldar of Eregion possessed all the Rings of Power except the One until Sauron invaded and destroyed their capital, Ost-in-Edhil. (And perhaps the very stone ring in which the Company of the Ring fought off the werewolf-wargs was the ruin of the House of the Mírdain?) 

This leads us to several interesting points. 

The Rings of Power – not only the Three, but the Nine and the Seven, too – were intended for Elves. Their effects on people of other races, making Men (and Halflings) invisible and inflaming the greed of Dwarves, were not intentional. Remember, Sauron was attempting to entrap the leaders of the Elves so that he could overcome them and enslave them to his will. Men are close kindred of Elves, and fell fast; Dwarves were resistant. But the Rings, both in Sauron’s mind and in the minds of the Elven smiths who forged them with his assistance, were meant for Elves. 
Ost-in-Edhil fell in Second Age 1697, and the Rings were seized in the sack of the House of the Mírdain (the Noldorin craftsmen). It isn’t possible for Sauron to ensnare any Men as Ringwraiths before then. 
Telperion was born in Second Age 1320. Isilmo must have been born not long thereafter. By the time of Minastir’s military expedition to Middle-earth, Isilmo would have been at least 350 years old: probably not too old for a royal Númenórean to go into battle (the House of Elros at that point was living to around 400 years; other Númenóreans to around 250 years), but pretty old all the same. 
As an aside Minastir, Telperion’s nephew was _probably_ given a regency by his aunt, the Queen. (Aunt Queen … punny, eh?) The War of the Elves and Sauron was fought 1693-1701, and the Númenóreans only arrived in force in 1700. Telperion ruled until 1731. This indicates that Minastir, who conceived, formed and probably led the expedition (this last point, leading the expedition, isn’t explicitly stated in the text as best I recall), had been given a very broad portfolio to exercise royal power in royal right in his own name under the suzerainty of his aunt. Tar-Telperion, second ruling queen, was very wise, as opposed to Tar-Ancalimë, the first ruling queen. Telperion gave up the possibility of marriage because he recalled the bitterness and unhappiness of Ancalimë, who made the lives of everyone around her miserable, including Telperion’s father and grandfather. 
One of the lures of a Ring of Power, for Men and for Elves, is _pride_. For Elves, it’s the power to keep everything “as is” – not changing. As Tolkien put it in one of his Letters, “to have their cake but not eat it”. At one point, Tolkien describes the Eldar as “embalmers”: they didn’t want their beautiful works to fade, nor did they themselves want to _fade_, the process whereby their bodies vanished from the material world as their spirits “consumed” them. *This is why the Rings of Power make mortals invisible*: Elves want to _remain_ corporeal and visible; I think the way the Rings do that for them makes Men _incorporeal_ and _invisible_. *Isilmo has no spur to this kind of pride: his son, Minastir, is co-regent, probably in father’s lifetime.* 
Tale of Years says, “The Shadow falls on Númenor” about 1800. That strongly suggests that the three Númenóreans who received Rings of Power have returned home and begun to spread evil and distrust among their kinsfolk. Sauron had a century to conceive his plan to use the Nine Rings to ensnare Men, select likely candidates (remember, six of the nine Ringwraiths came from Sauron’s own worshippers and allies, and since he probably ensnared them first, at least to see and test the effects, you have to give him time to do that), and then cozen and deceive the three Dúnedain he targeted. I doubt that any of the Dúnedain would have trusted Sauron to take a Ring had he known who he was or what he was offering. I believe Sauron deceived all three of them. Moreover, the other two Númenóreans were probably not of royal blood: their lifespans were “only” 250 years. The other two likely helped him ensnare the last, who was the most noble, the most royal, and the most difficult to trick. No doubt he trusted his countrymen: they betrayed him, thought unquestionably under the influence of Sauron’s rather overwhelming personality – and their Rings. 
Not long after, Ciryatan forced his father, Tar-Minastir, the _leader of the war_ who planned and executed the expedition, to resign the throne in Tar-Ciryatan’s favor. This was regarded by the people of Númenor as an act, if not of evil, of the “shadow” of evil. It was an act of _pride_ and selfishness on Ciryatan’s part. Tar-Minastir “loved the Eldar but envied them.” Tar-Ciryatan “scorned the yearnings of his father”. Why? Someone close to Ciryatan, someone he trusted, encouraged him, advised him, and helped him. That person was probably someone Ciryatan had known and trusted all his life, someone in his own generation: not older, not younger. Someone successful, admired, and powerful. 
Tar-Ciryatan died, was embalmed according to Númenórean custom (the Númenóreans embalmed and buried their kings much as the Egyptians in the real world), and buried in Noirinan, the Valley of the Tombs of the kings and queens of Númenor at the southern base of Meneltarma. His son Tar-Atanamir succeeded him as sovereign. Atanamir “spoke openly against the ban of the Valar”. Why? Again, someone successful, someone whom he admired, someone powerful – and now, *someone living in good health, with great vigor of mind and body, beyond the span of life previously granted to the Men of Númenor*, was advising him, prompting him, encouraging him to defy the Valar. The Valar sent a large, formal embassy to Armenelos to reason with Atanamir. He would have none of it: he _knew_ he could live longer with strength and vigor because he knew someone who _had_. It was a lie, a deceit, but Tar-Atanamir didn’t know that. He had seen it, and so he believed it could be done again; but he didn’t realize the evil, the necromancy, that lay behind it. Nor did he realize that the power in the Rings was beyond his power; and that even if he could achieve it, he wouldn’t want the result: damnation. 


The Lord of Nazgûl can’t reasonably be born earlier than Tar-Minastir. He can’t be born too long after Tar-Ciryatan, because he must be a close advisor to Tar-Ciryatan, and he must also participate in the Númenórean military expedition of 1700-1701. He needs to live long enough – but not so long that it draws unnecessary attention to a fantastic old age – to be an advisor to Tar-Atanamir for a while. Were he in Tar-Minastir’s generation, he’d be 500-600 years old when Tar-Atanamir became king, making him older than Elros Tar-Minyatur, Elrond’s brother, who is recorded as the longest-lived of all the Men of Númenor. That means he has to be in Tar-Ciryatan’s generation. And that rules out Isilmo. 

One further point gives us some insight into the mind of the Lord of the Nazgûl. He wants to be king of the Dúnedain. We know this because he makes himself King at Fornost and rules from its thrown after slaughtering the Dúnedain of the North in the war that put an end to Arthedain-Arnor. He rules in Minas Morgul, the city of Isildur. When he enters Minas Tirith, he’s wearing a crown – and probably intends to rule from the throne of Anárion in the citadel. I’ll bet he wanted to be King of Númenor, and that pride, that envy, that covetousness, was the chink in his armor that allowed Sauron to cozen him into taking the Ring in the first place.


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## Matthew Bailey01 (Apr 9, 2015)

Wow, Alcuin.

That was a spectacular speculation.

MRB


I obviously take Middle-earth too seriously!


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