# Turgon Inspired Challange



## Rangerdave (May 7, 2002)

Since the Lord Turgon's theory concerning Feanor and Hamlet is such a striking and radical concept. I decided to ask people to expand the scope.

The challange put before you all is, to list major similarities between Tolkienian* and Shakespearean characters.

* is that a word?

Just a laundry list of characters ie Elrond/Oberon is fine, but a few lines as to why would be nice.

RD


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## Hirila (May 7, 2002)

What about Nienor Niniel, Turins sister, as Ophelia.

Not only that both drown, but they are beautiful young women in love with a man who has a secret. Hamlet wants to make Claudius confess his murder and fakes madness, Turin also hides his real intentions why he lives with the woodmen. It's real tragedies taking place: the one woman thinks the man she loves doesn't love her and the other doesn't even know herself. 

Ok, not really good arguments, but I must confess I don't remember the Turin story in detail to be able to compare it to Hamlet. But the drowning-fact is real, something like that always makes me remember Ophelia.


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## SpencerC18 (May 8, 2002)

Beren & Luthien - Romeo & Juliet


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## Turgon (May 8, 2002)

> _By RD_
> Since the Lord Turgon's theory concerning Feanor and Hamlet is such a striking and radical concept.


You mean crazy - right? 

*Caliban and Gollum*
I see many similarities between these two rapscallions. The first time I ever read The Tempest it struck me - and I've always imagined Caliban to look like Gollum since then. Both creatures seem predestined to evil - not only because of something inside their psyche - but because both are treated cruelly by the world and don't really stand much of chance to break away from the moral determinism that dogs them. Inside both of them there is a 'chink of light' waiting for a chance to break through - unfortunately both of them seem doomed to dwell in darkness.
I love this quote from The Tempest...


> *Caliban*: ... and then in dreaming. The clouds, methought, would open, and show riches ready to drop upon me, that when I wak'd I cried to dream again.


It could be argued here that Caliban is simply dreaming about treasure and wealth which would totally be in keeping with his character... but personally I think the riches Shakespeare is talking about is redemption and the riches of heaven - forgiveness, grace and so on. The same kind of thing I imagine Gollum's Smeagol side to have dreamt of when Frodo's love almost redeemed him.


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