# Is it difficult to read lotr?



## Alex2321 (Jul 31, 2021)

Hi, but is it difficult to read lotr?


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## Kolbitar (Jul 31, 2021)

No--it is far too easy to read. Is it difficult to enjoy? That depends very much on what you have a taste for. Every word has been carefully placed--no un-intentional dead-idioms or overly abundantly abused adverbs. Many are drawn to Tolkien's writings for various reasons, but he provides a feast upon which to be enticed by. There are homages to Anglo-Saxon, Finnish, Scandinavian, and Celtic cultures (and others)--carefully dovetailed into something entirely new in and for contemporary English--and in Tolkien's work one can find the foundation upon which "sword-and-sorcery" stories have been written for the past century--and none quite to the depth of intricacy which Tolkien has provided. There are those who are drawn to it from an appreciation of myth, from an appreciation of adventure, from an appreciation of good, homely food and loyal friendship. There are far more reasons why people read, and re-read his work. The Lord of the Rings is a rather long journey, and the only way to travel is through reading. And...there is far more which could be said about this topic, from more eloquent readers, and you will certainly find much to glean from this forum--there is no better Tolkien forum. It may be said that the call to adventure may be sounded with less daunting text in countless other works--each diminished in glory by the one.

Also, yes. Yes, it is.


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## grendel (Jul 31, 2021)

No. It is difficult to read The Silmarillion.


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## Alex2321 (Aug 1, 2021)

grendel said:


> No. It is difficult to read The Silmarillion.


Oh, thank you for the information!



Kolbitar said:


> No--it is far too easy to read. Is it difficult to enjoy? That depends very much on what you have a taste for. Every word has been carefully placed--no un-intentional dead-idioms or overly abundantly abused adverbs. Many are drawn to Tolkien's writings for various reasons, but he provides a feast upon which to be enticed by. There are homages to Anglo-Saxon, Finnish, Scandinavian, and Celtic cultures (and others)--carefully dovetailed into something entirely new in and for contemporary English--and in Tolkien's work one can find the foundation upon which "sword-and-sorcery" stories have been written for the past century--and none quite to the depth of intricacy which Tolkien has provided. There are those who are drawn to it from an appreciation of myth, from an appreciation of adventure, from an appreciation of good, homely food and loyal friendship. There are far more reasons why people read, and re-read his work. The Lord of the Rings is a rather long journey, and the only way to travel is through reading. And...there is far more which could be said about this topic, from more eloquent readers, and you will certainly find much to glean from this forum--there is no better Tolkien forum. It may be said that the call to adventure may be sounded with less daunting text in countless other works--each diminished in glory by the one.
> 
> Also, yes. Yes, it is.


Ah okay, thank you for the answer!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 1, 2021)

_Great novels are always a little more intelligent than their authors._
--- Milan Kundera

And perhaps we should add "and their readers".


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## CirdanLinweilin (Aug 1, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> _Great novels are always a little more intelligent than their authors._
> --- Milan Kundera


TRUTH.








CL


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## m4r35n357 (Aug 2, 2021)

I've just started re-reading A Clockwork Orange (which has its own specialized language/argot) after a gap of a few decades. _That_ is what I would describe as difficult to read (especially since my current copy has no glossary at the back!).

Tolkien is a breeze by comparison.


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## Alex2321 (Aug 2, 2021)

Ah okay, thank you for the comparison!


m4r35n357 said:


> I've just started re-reading A Clockwork Orange (which has its own specialized language/argot) after a gap of a few decades. _That_ is what I would describe as difficult to read (especially since my current copy has no glossary at the back!).
> 
> Tolkien is a breeze by comparison.


Ah okay, thank you for the comparison!


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## Shadow (Aug 5, 2021)

I had no problem reading The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings. You should be fine.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 5, 2021)

Question: do you plan to read it in English, or in translation?


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## Alex2321 (Aug 5, 2021)

Shadow said:


> I had no problem reading The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings. You should be fine.


Ah okay, thank you for the answer!



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Question: do you plan to read it in English, or in translation?


With translation


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 5, 2021)

Ah, I see. Italian, I assume?


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## Alex2321 (Aug 5, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Ah, I see. Italian, I assume?


Yes


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 5, 2021)

Is there more than one translation? As your English seems fine, I suppose it's just an easier read in Italian, but if you feel confident enough, it would be interesting to hear your comparison to the original language version. Several members have done this; Il'll try to find an example.

BTW-- In case you are unaware of it, Tolkien loved the Italian language. 😊



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Il'll try to find an example.


Aha. Here's one -- a very fine one! -- from Gilgaerel, Post # 31 and following:

https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/a-favorite-passage.23567/page-2#post-518516

Oh my, where are my manners? Welcome to the forum, Alex2321! If you'd like to introduce yourself, and say something further about your ME interests, don't forget the New Members forum:









New Members


Meet and greet the newest TTF members. -- [ One thread per new member only! ] --




www.thetolkienforum.com


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## Goldilocks Gamgee (Aug 5, 2021)

I don't think you should have any trouble reading Lord of the Rings, at all. I read it at the age of six, and understood it. But it might be because I first read it in another language...


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## Ealdwyn (Aug 5, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Aha. Here's one -- a very fine one! -- from Gilgaerel, Post # 31 and following:
> 
> https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/a-favorite-passage.23567/page-2#post-518516


This is very interesting


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## Alex2321 (Aug 5, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Is there more than one translation? As your English seems fine, I suppose it's just an easier read in Italian, but if you feel confident enough, it would be interesting to hear your comparison to the original language version. Several members have done this; Il'll try to find an example.
> 
> BTW-- In case you are unaware of it, Tolkien loved the Italian language. 😊
> 
> ...


I Will think About It


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## Alex2321 (Aug 5, 2021)

Alex2321 said:


> I Will think About It


Anyway, for the First questione, It Is probable


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## Elthir (Aug 5, 2021)

I read it in French at the age of thirty three. Didn't understand a word of it.

A pantherian translation of the Silmarillion only came out in 2015! But now I know that the Two Trees were long dead before Earendil arrived in Aman. Yeesh *Alcuin.*

*🐾 *


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 5, 2021)

Alex2321 said:


> I Will think About It


No pressure. 😀



Goldilocks Gamgee said:


> I read it at the age of six, and understood it.


You were a precocious child!  

Or, maybe it comes from being a hobbit -- and a Gamgee, at that. 😁




Goldilocks Gamgee said:


> But it might be because I first read it in another language...


If it's not being too nosy, may I ask which language?


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## Goldilocks Gamgee (Aug 6, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> You were a precocious child!
> 
> Or, maybe it comes from being a hobbit -- and a Gamgee, at that. 😁


Thank you! Though, of course, most hobbits don't know their letters at adulthood, much less as a child.


Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> If it's not being too nosy, may I ask which language?


Russian. It's my first language, though I've always lived in the States. And - I'm proud to say this - my family isn't American, at all. My three younger siblings can't speak English!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 6, 2021)

Well, everyone should have something to be proud of. 😁

BTW, Alice posted some of her Russian editions on the Book Covers thread, and I believe she may have discussed translations on another thread or two.

She did say something about Russian fanfic here:









Examples of the amazing adventures of Tolkien's fanfiction in my country


Some people that I know wonder, if there were some examples of Tolkien fanfiction published in USA or other countries (excluding parodies). This question appeared, because in 1990's and 2000's in Russia arised the popularity of sequels, prequels, midquels and re-imagining of Professor's works...




www.thetolkienforum.com


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## Goldilocks Gamgee (Aug 6, 2021)

Thank you, I'll see about it.


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## Shadow (Aug 29, 2021)

While we’re on the topic of reading difficulty, what has been people’s experiences reading The Silmarillion?


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## Ealdwyn (Aug 29, 2021)

Shadow said:


> While we’re on the topic of reading difficulty, what has been people’s experiences reading The Silmarillion?


It was a long time ago when I first read it, but I remember the first few chapters being _extremely_ hard work, although it got better once the Noldor return to ME and the action picks up. I think the reasons for this were 1) I expected it to be like LotR, but it's a completely different animal, 2) the archaic style, especially of Ainulindale and Valaquenta, 3) so many names! - and many of them so similar - e.g. it was hard on a first reading to keep track of all the Finwës, Finrods, Fingons, Fingolfins and FInarfins! 😂

What helped in subsequent readings was getting a copy of the Atlas of ME, as it was easier to keep track of the geography, the battles, and the movements of various peoples. Some time later I bought a copy of the audiobook and I actually wish I'd had this from the start, as I think it would have been easier to listen to the Sil first time around before reading it.

My advice for a first time reader would be to persevere. The time and effort you spend on becoming familiar with the Sil is an investment which pays off on further readings, as it reveals a richness of characters and storytelling that surpasses even LotR. 
And of course, it also adds an extra dimension to LotR and TH, making subsequent readings of those books much richer.


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## m4r35n357 (Aug 29, 2021)

Shadow said:


> While we’re on the topic of reading difficulty, what has been people’s experiences reading The Silmarillion?


I had a copy for years, finally read it about 10 years ago: here's how:

Read LotR for the first time in ages, read appendices A & B. Became interested in Second Age and Last Alliance. Followed with "Of the Rings of Power", then read Akallabeth and found out more about Numenor. Then wondered about First Age, and read from the beginning.

So, a bit like learning history, the easy stuff is the most recent, then work backwards!


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## Rōmānus (Apr 1, 2022)

Alex2321 said:


> Hi, but is it difficult to read lotr?
> 
> View attachment 9993


Since men are not equal it might, or it might not be difficult. Five people you ask may be like “no”, and then you pick it up and have trouble getting through it. It is not a difficult read for me, but this only accounts for me and cannot be grafted onto you or anyone else.


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## Persephone (Apr 2, 2022)

Alex2321 said:


> Hi, but is it difficult to read lotr?
> 
> View attachment 9993



I read the Hobbit first and thought that was it - but, it just whet my appetite for more. So I read the trilogy, and before that, I only read Sci-Fi novels and comic books. What I thought would be challenging (they are 3 thick books with small fonts after all). turned out to be pretty much like eating Pringles - once you start... you can't stop.


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## Uminya (Apr 3, 2022)

When I first tried to read LOTR as a child, I couldn't get through the first chapter; not because of comprehension difficulties, but because it is paced so slowly and I had't yet developed an appreciation for that kind of writing. When I was a little bit older, though, I was pulled right in and enjoyed it thoroughly. The Silmarillon is dry and I think that it is more complex, since it is less of a narrative story and more like a historic account; what really gets complicated is reading through the Histories of Middle Earth and then trying to keep the "final" or "canonical" stories sorted from the draft versions!


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## Mr.Underhill (Apr 15, 2022)

It is heavy to read. But its quite fun once you get into it.


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## m4r35n357 (Apr 15, 2022)

Having recently immersed myself in a whole heap of Lovecraft/Dunsany fiction (I have a few days to recover before the Arthur Machen stuff turns up), I get the impression that Tolkien is _by far_ the easiest to read of the fantasy genre (might not be true of more recent material, I haven't read any GRRM).
His (published) work is _overwhelmingly_ conversational and informal, except when e.g. he is doing dialogue between wizards and "nobility".
If you think Tolkien is hard to read, best avoid the "competition"


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## Olorgando (Apr 15, 2022)

m4r35n357 said:


> If you think Tolkien is hard to read, best avoid the "competition"


JRRT knew more about the "English" language of about the last 1,500 years than did (do) 99.9% of the "competition"; and about 99.99% more than the critics. Which - if only subconsciously - may have enraged many of the latter, too many of which were (are) pompous ... errr ... behinds. Who are used to looking down on the rest of humanity with smug disdain (all too often erring grievously). Being shown up as having an IQ *slightly* above the average ant sits *very* ill with this bunch (you may want to check Internet sources on the term Dunning–Kruger effect). 😁😁😁😁😁


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## m4r35n357 (Apr 15, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> JRRT knew more about the "English" language of about the last 1,500 years than did (do) 99.9% of the "competition"; and about 99.99% more than the critics. Which - if only subconsciously - may have enraged many of the latter, too many of which were (are) pompous ... errr ... behinds. Who are used to looking down on the rest of humanity with smug disdain (all too often erring grievously). Being shown up as having an IQ *slightly* above the average ant sits *very* ill with this bunch (you may want to check Internet sources on the term Dunning–Kruger effect). 😁😁😁😁😁


Well that _certainly_ took some parsing  If I got it right it is an attack on "critics" (I suppose there must be good ones as well as bad though).


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 15, 2022)

m4r35n357 said:


> If you think Tolkien is hard to read, best avoid the "competition"


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## Olorgando (Apr 15, 2022)

m4r35n357 said:


> Well that _certainly_ took some parsing  If I got it right it is an attack on "critics" (I suppose there must be good ones as well as bad though).


I take my cue from Joseph Pearce's 1998 book "Tolkien - Man and Myth - A literary life", chapter 1, which Tom Shippey quotes in his 2000 book "J.R.R. Tolkien - Author of the Century." I'll just share this little gem from Shippey's book:
" but _{Susan}_ Jeffreys _{of the Sunday Times}_ reported also that the reaction 'was echoed up and down the country wherever one or two literati gathered together.' She meant, surely, 'two or three literati', unless the literati talk only to themselves (a thought that does occur); ..."

Shooting yourself in the foot is bad enough; it's worse when said foot is in your mouth at the time ... 😈😈😈


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## m4r35n357 (Apr 15, 2022)

Seen this? https://www.wyrmworld.com/interactive/lovecraft/lovecraft.html


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## Olorgando (Apr 15, 2022)

m4r35n357 said:


> Seen this? https://www.wyrmworld.com/interactive/lovecraft/lovecraft.html


Nope. But after checking Wikipedia, I now know that the picture in S-eS's above post is of H. P. Lovecraft. I'd read his name, but practically nothing about and nothing by him.


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## m4r35n357 (Apr 15, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> Nope. But after checking Wikipedia, I now know that the picture in S-eS's above post is of H. P. Lovecraft. I'd read his name, but practically nothing about and nothing by him.


Oops that was supposed to be a reply to @Squint-eyed Southerner, without the picture. Looks like it lost the quote altogether!


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## Olorgando (Apr 15, 2022)

m4r35n357 said:


> Oops that was supposed to be a reply to @Squint-eyed Southerner, without the picture. Looks like it lost the quote altogether!


Yes, the only content of S-eS's post was the picture: delete it, and you delete all of the content, which eliminates the quote.


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## m4r35n357 (Apr 15, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> Yes, the only content of S-eS's post was the picture: delete it, and you delete all of the content, which eliminates the quote.


A <SNIP> would have saved it, I guess . . .


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 15, 2022)

Or just hitting Reply.

I hadn't seen it, and it's hilarious -- thanks! I particularly liked "A bleating chaos" -- sounds like some old posts I've read. . .somewhere. . .😀

Or written. . .😁


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## m4r35n357 (Apr 16, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Or just hitting Reply.
> 
> I hadn't seen it, and it's hilarious -- thanks! I particularly liked "A bleating chaos" -- sounds like some old posts I've read. . .somewhere. . .😀
> 
> Or written. . .😁


On the subject of HPL, I found this site useful to make sure I understood all the nuances lurking in his "prose" . . . plot summaries, two expert critiques per story, and plenty of good user comments. Full _warts & all_ analysis!


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 2, 2022)

For me, I never really found LOTR difficult to read. I actually stopped halfway through _The Two Towers _because my elven spark decided to ignite within me.

_Now it has led me to read The Silmarillion, and I've read about 16 chapters in approximately a month - is that fast for an elf of mainly Telerin descent, considering that the Noldorin were often the faster learners?  (I'm 5/11 Telerin, 4/11 Vanyarin and 2/11 Noldorin!) And let's not forget how thorough and information-dense that book is; I'm still trying to get my head round it!_


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 2, 2022)

_The Silmarillion _can be a challenge, of course. This was certainly the case when it was first published, especially for people who were expecting something more in the style of LOTR. "It's like reading the Old Testament!" was a common reaction -- to which my regular reply was "Yes -- if the Old Testament had been written by Vikings".

I like a comment I saw recently: "A good title for every chapter would be 'How Things Became Even Worse' ".


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (May 2, 2022)

_"What happens in exile stays in exile" _Literally all the Noldor, _and me, a predominantly Telerin elf_, in the First Age-


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## Barliman (May 3, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> _The Silmarillion _can be a challenge, of course. This was certainly the case when it was first published, especially for people who were expecting something more in the style of LOTR. "It's like reading the Old Testament!" was a common reaction -- to which my regular reply was "Yes -- if the Old Testament had been written by Vikings".


Well, upon reading some of the laws of the Old Testament I'm not so sure it wasn't written by Vikings.


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## Olorgando (May 3, 2022)

Barliman said:


> Well, upon reading some of the laws of the Old Testament I'm not so sure it wasn't written by Vikings.


Considering the writngs probably had their roots in the late Bronze Age, when the Egyptians, Hittites and "Mesopotamians" were sporadically, or not so sporadically, having a go at each other ... and then almost everything basically fell apart at the end of the Bronze Age roughly around 1200 B.C. (and even the Egyptians had their heyday behind them). The Vikings would hardly have been noticed in that chaos - except that they had (being about 2000 years later) steel weapons with which they would have sliced and diced most of those that got in their way.


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## Halasían (Jun 24, 2022)

Alex2321 said:


> Hi, but is it difficult to read lotr?
> 
> View attachment 9993


Nah. I just opened the 1st book and started with the Foreword and closed the third book after I read the Appendices.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 24, 2022)

Even the family trees? 😳


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 26, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Even the family trees? 😳


Why would you not? 
The Family Trees are very interesting, though I will admit that the Appendices were less of a dialogue. 😂


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## Elassar (Jun 26, 2022)

The family trees are some of my favourite parts of the lotr appendices


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 26, 2022)

Elassar said:


> The family trees are some of my favourite parts of the lotr appendices


Indeed!


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## Olorgando (Jun 27, 2022)

Elassar said:


> The family trees are some of my favourite parts of the lotr appendices


Oh, I enjoy the four Hobbit family trees in Appendix C ... especially the intertwining of the families mentioned, the Bagginses, Tooks, Brandybucks, and after events of LoTR the descendants of Sam also adding to the mix.

But there's *no* way I could follow or remember all of that second, third, nth cousins and all of those confusing removes ... 

Returning to the OP, how easy or difficult it is for anyone to read LoTR depends on the expectations they bring to the reading.

Even within JRRT's legendarium, there is the classic case (the path most people tread) of, having read LoTR (and perhaps TH), they arrive at "The Silmarillion". The disappointed expectation, from what I've heard and read, that is most often voiced is "What, no Hobbits?"

So it would depend, I'd guess, on what other reading, in Fantasy, the wider genre of the Fantastic, or generally fiction people have been accustomed to.
Now, in the 67 years since the "trilogy" was completed, the Fantasy genre has exploded, grown exponentially. At the time, LoTR was unprecedented (and in many aspects will remain a class of its own); C.S. Lewis called it "lightning from a clear sky" (in a newspaper review for "Fellowship" in 1954).

I know at least a couple of people I've spoken to who haven't finished LoTR (my wife included). The reasons are varied; some get impatient with JRRT's going into so much details in some descriptions - which is exactly what other people find fascinating. Pacing also seems to be an issue for some people (here, in films, Sergio Leone's 1968 "Once Upon a Time in the West" comes to mind). And just getting to the Prancing Pony in Bree seems to be an issue, with Tom Bombadil's nonsense-singing a special sticking point. When I first read it in the German translation in 1983, the friend who loaned me her book more or less said I'd need to slog through that part ...

I did.


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## d4rk3lf (Jun 27, 2022)

grendel said:


> No. It is difficult to read The Silmarillion.



I think people make a mistake, when reading Silmarillion for the first time, by trying to track every single name and family connection. 
Silmarillion is not a type of book you only read once, so I always advice more relaxed reading, and not caring about names so much, and the important names will be figured out sooner or later, anyway, and all will make more and more sense when re-reading it over and over again.


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