# What strange country, and why?



## Eledhwen (Mar 19, 2004)

In "The Ring Goes South", scouts are sent far and wide before the fellowship of the ring set off.


> The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, were the last to return; they had made a great journey, passing down the Silverlode into a strange country, but of their errand they would not speak to any save to Elrond.


Did they go to Lothlorien? Which route did they take? Why did Caradhras let them pass? Why the secrecy? Was Gandalf informed? I think we should be told.


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## aragil (Mar 19, 2004)

I would say they certainly went to Lothlorien- what other 'strange country' does the Silverlode flow through before it reaches the Anduin?
Your second question is answered by your third- they probably went over Caradhras, as crossing the Misty Mountains near Rivendell would have left them in open country, where they might easily have been spied (much like the Fellowship).
Why did Caradhras let them pass? I would say that it would be quite impossible to speculate on this, as we don't even know for sure if it was Caradhras which later prevented the Fellowship from passing. Sauron and Saruman both knew the Fellowship's approximate location at that point- Sauron from the Wargs and Saruman from the Crebain.
I imagine that Gandalf was informed- I would guess that the purpose of E&E's visit was (at least partially) to inform Lorien of the Ring-quest: Galadriel and Celeborn certainly know how many were to set out from Rivendell. I can't imagine that Gandalf (the leader of the quest) would be excluded from any information about Lorien's reaction to the quest. Also Gandalf later speaks of journeying into Lorien after crossing the Mountains- I can't imagine that Elrond would withold information about Lorien if he knew Gandalf planned on travelling there.


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## Inderjit S (Mar 20, 2004)

Yes they were sent to Lothlórien, Celeborn and Galadriel mention Elrond's messengers to the fellowship, and it only could have been them two. 

Caradhras was quite selective in who it let pass. For some reason the fellowship could not, whether it was Sauron or Saruman, the ring affecting Caradhras or something else, which leads some people to notice an incongruence in people being able to pass over the mountain. The Redhorn gate was used at times, and note that Legolas did not find it too difficult on Caradhras. Caradhras may have been just angry at the fellowship for some reason. We can presume that Galadriel and co. were able to pass over it safely on their way back to Lothlórien. That statement must have been a late addition nonetheless since at the time of writing Lothlórien didn't exist.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Mar 21, 2004)

It seems that the Sons of Elrond might not have gone over Caradhras but went through the pass at the source of the Gladden River along with some companions, journeyed South to Lórien where they and their companions split up and then went alone down the Silverlode and spoke with Celeborn and Galadriel, then took the way over Caradhras on their way back.

LR, 'Lothlórien':


> But we [the Galadhrim] have heard rumours of your [the Fellowship's] coming, for *the messengers of Elrond passed by Lórien on their way home up the Dimrill Stair*.


TI, 'Lothlórien':


> Warnings of things afoot have reached folk of Lórien *from the Gladden Fields*, when Elrond's messengers came East.


LR, 'The Ring Goes South':


> Many had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while *others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair.* The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, were the last to return; they had made a great journey, passing down the Silverlode into a strange country, but of their errand they would not speak to any save to Elrond.



They also went West with Aragorn before though:


> Elrond is sending Elves, and they will get in touch with the Rangers, and maybe with Thranduil's folk in Mirkwood. *And Aragorn has gone with Elrond's sons*.





> others had gone west, and *with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood*, as far as Tharbad, where the old North Road crossed the river by a ruined town


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## Inderjit S (Mar 21, 2004)

What about the scouts who went either to Rhosgobel or somewhere close to the proximity. Maybe they fell into contact, through one way or another with the people of Lorien. Animals, such as birds may have been used to, since Gildor may have spread the news of Frodo using animals (the fox ) and such things may have been common place. 

But of course it is probable that they did go over the Cirith Forn en Andrath which lay close to Rivendell and they would also get a better lay of the land to the north of Lorien from there and it may have saved time end effort, the former being scare. The group that may have accompanied the twins could have gone on to Rhosgobel or wherever and returned to Rivendell earlier then the twins.


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## jallan (Mar 21, 2004)

The scouts who went to Lothlórien passed over Caradhras and back did so about a month earlier than the Fellowship attempted. A snowstorm then was less likely.

Indeed, it seems that the pass Caradhras was generally open all winter and had long been used (by those few who wished to travel across the Misty Mountains at that point) or Gandalf would not have planned to go that way. The sudden snowstorm is a surprise to Gandalf.

Gimli sees the ill-will of Caradhras itself or some demonic power that haunts its heights and Gandalf carefully does not deny this as a possibility. But Tolkien is not explicit. The snowstorm was _possibly_ only a normal snowstorm that struck at the wrong time for the Fellowship.

In any case, accepting that the will of some being was blocking the pass, that will may have had less to work with a month before.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Mar 31, 2004)

I think it is strange that my quote from LR, 'Lothlórien' says


> the messengers of Elrond passed by Lórien on their way home up the Dimrill Stair


 if the messengers went to Lórien by that way.


*Inderjit S:* Cirith Forn en Andrath was the pass that led down to Imladris. The text mentions the pass at the source of the Gladden River; it is a different pass, more to the south.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 12, 2004)

Cirith Forn en Andrath was the same pass that was used by Bilbo and co. to get into Rhovanion.


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 12, 2004)

Cirith Forn en Andrath is another name for the High Pass. 

I find it strange that the pass at the source of the Gladden River is hardly ever mentioned. Was it a more secret, or lesser known, pass? In which case, why didn't the Fellowship attempt to cross the mountains _there_? After all, it is not that far removed from Lothlorien. And what difference does it make which side of the mountains you choose to make your way southwards? Unless the Western side was deemed to be much more safer.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 12, 2004)

Maybe the increase in the Ork population (as Legolas says, the Orks were again getting numerous) made the "north" dangerous, and thus the southernmost pass through Hollin was a lot safer, since Hollin was deserted whilst the company would meet more danger on the other side of the mountains. Plus the pass over Caradhras was pretty close to Lorien and thus it lessened the chances of them being tracked or seen by unfriendly eyes.


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