# What to do with Guilds?



## DGoeij (Oct 23, 2003)

I know the WM and our Super-Mod Talierin are trying to work out a solution, but by talking back and forth between themselves I don't think much Guildmembers will appreciate their efforts in the end. So instead of joining in by PM, I decided to openly post my idea and let every member of TTF post his or her opinion. 

Now we all know Guild-members like their own Guilds, so there's no need for one-sentence post, ending in a lot of exclamation marks, just to tel us that.

IMHO, the current ideas concerning Guilds are not helping TTF. If Guilds are only going to be maintained if there's some sort of Tolkien-related talk going on, it simply means that a lot of members will divert their attention and energy away from the book threads or Guilds will be closed if members are unable to sustain their ' window-dressing' . I beleive that's the worst thing that could happen.

Intersesting topics that are concerning Tolkien that are discussed in Guilds, are in a lot of cases discussed exclusively by Guild members. I'm not talking about the debating threads here. Those are entirely different, because they are clearly meant as a contest between Guild-teams. Although I personally hardly enjoy that, I think it's a great feature for those who like it. To bring the debating topics into the book-sections later on, was a brilliant idea IMO.

The current goal of the WM is to bring the attention of TTF-members ' back' to Tolkien. But I believe that, to maintain a healthy and lively community, some 'off-topic' talk with like-minded people is needed and that has been recognized by the WM himself.

Because of this, I believe it would be best to leave the existence of Guilds and the topics of the threads to the members themselves. A Guild, IMO, should be a gathering place of like-minded people, happy to discuss the outer-world with fellow Tolkien fans who share other common interests. It would be wiser IMO to even encourage the Tolkien-topics to be held in the general sections (books, movies, related topics etc.), to ensure maximum openness.

I think we should be looking for a way to ensure that Guilds remain fairly small in number of threads. Perhaps by putting a maximum to that amount per Guild and/or not counting Guild-posts in the general post count. But removing them altogether would IMO cause more grief than needs be and would not be in the best interest of TTF.

Please, THINK, before you hit the Reply-button.


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## Confusticated (Oct 23, 2003)

Some good points, and I especially agree with this:



> It would be wiser IMO to even encourage the Tolkien-topics to be held in the general sections (books, movies, related topics etc.), to ensure maximum openness.


Now that GoO has a chance to be moved back into its guild position IF we make it more about Tolkien, I am sort of torn. The first idea that comes to my mind is to have within the guild some topics that exist outside of the guild too. In this way people can discuss topics among their guild friends without necessarily depriving the rest of the forum.

Back when I applied to be a guild leader one major thing I wanted to work on was getting stuff available to the rest of the forum. Guilds could, when they think an especially unqiue idea comes up in one of their threads, take some clips from it and open it outside for all.

Ideally, to me, guilds would work within the guild, towards improving the book forums outside.


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## Niniel (Oct 23, 2003)

I agree with DGoeij. TTF is not only a place to talk about Tolkien, but also a community. It's like school: you go there to do one thing, namely learning, but when you are there you meet other people, make friends, and start talking about other things that just learning. That is what many people come here to do: not only talk about Tolkien, but also about all other things they want to talk about. And just like in schools there are groups of special friends, groups of people who especially stick together a lot: the guilds. The reason why these people first joined, to discuss Tolkien, is still important to them, but they want to discuss other things beside that. Taking away all the guilds will seriously damage the sense of community that TTF has. Many people won't like it as much as before, will come here less often, and as a consequence won't post in the Tolkien-related threads any more either.


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## baragund (Oct 23, 2003)

Keep them as they are and allow them to discuss whatever they want.

I made a fairly detailed if rambling post yesterday on this topic that seems to have disappeared. But my thoughts were pretty closely aligned with Niniel's.


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## DGoeij (Oct 24, 2003)

I understand the need for a feel of community by the members of the various Guilds (heck, I'm one of them), but I also understand the WM's concerns in making the TTF's main occupation the works of and various subject surrounding J.R.R. Tolkien.

So instead of seeing various Guilds deleted because of lack of Tolkien threads and frustrating a lot of members because of that, I think it would be wiser to review the whole Guild system as a whole. Hence my proposals in the first post.


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## HLGStrider (Oct 25, 2003)

Let the guilds stay as long as they are popular and not spamming. They aren't hurting anything. They allow people to talk and get to know each other. They don't hurt those who aren't in them. . .such as myself. I'm an honorary Periar, but I never post in there, so I don't see why I am. 

Occasionally it is nice to see the debate topics brought out as threads, but I like the idea of having debates, so even if I don't belong in them, I think they should be kept.

Seriously, we can't delete guilds just because they are non-Tolkien and maintain a sense of community. Just limit the number and delete anything that gets spammy beyond hope. ..and cancel a guild if the membership goes below a certain point and give it to someone who could use it more.


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## Walter (Oct 26, 2003)

I have somewhat "mixed emotions" regarding "guilds" on TTF.

On the one hand I see that they are supporting the "online community feeling", are great for getting to know each other and some socialising within TTF.

On the other hand I fail to see why a BBS dedicated to Tolkien and his works should host a "Harry Potter Society", an "Evil Guild", a "Society of Sony PS2 users" or a "Guild of Terminators" to name but a few guilds who have made themselves at home here. Recently there have been quite some guilds and societies around, which are IMHO completely "off topic" within TTF.

It should be also taken into consideration that within the past months - and except for the organized debates - only the Tolkenologists and the Scholars (and eventually the Noldondili) have actively maintained some Tolkien-related research and discussion. Discouraging Lhun (and Maedhros and Nöm) in their attempts to initiate and maintain some Tolkien research within their guilds by making them feel guilty about a little exclusivity within - or a discussion to "dilute" - those guilds by an attempt to move part of their activities into the general sections would IMO be highly contraproductive. As it would be - again IMHO - to allow or support "guilds" - as subsets of TTF - that show no interest in any Tolkien-related activities.

So, to cut it short: If a "guild" maintains some activity that is in any way Tolkien-related (like of course e.g. the "Writers" and "Artists" are too) it ought to have a place as a "guild" here, if it's merely about "socialising" or "window-dressing", one (or a few) thread(s) in one of the "off-topic" sections should suffice for that...

PS: I notice the post counts are back: "squeeky wheel get's the grease"...


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## Lasgalen (Oct 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Walter _
> *So, to cut it short: If a "guild" maintains some activity that is in any way Tolkien-related (like of course e.g. the "Writers" and "Artists" are too) it ought to have a place as a "guild" here, if it's merely about "socialising" or "window-dressing", one (or a few) thread(s) in one of the "off-topic" sections should suffice for that...
> *


 That sounds rather elitist. What is wrong with socializing about a specific topic (Elves, Dwarves, Rangers etc). Why can't a topic be discussed without having to do deep research? What is wrong with lighter discussions?


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## Walter (Oct 29, 2003)

Well, yes, IMO the Guilds should represent some elite maintaining and representing the major goal of TTF. 

I am not at all against socializing and having fun on TTF, but does that really need to be organized within a "guild"?


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## HLGStrider (Oct 29, 2003)

Often it helps. The guild organization allows for activities within a smaller group that allows for closer knowledge of one another. It allows for less chaos. . .In some ways it acts as a buffer within those guilds similar to that of a Serious Stuff and Bother: a place sheltered from the general disorderliness of Stuff and Bother but still off topic.


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## Rhiannon (Oct 31, 2003)

Bascially the light-hearted guilds offer a comfort zone. TTF is a huge, wonderful forum, and can be really intimidating. I spent a few months posting almost exclusively in the Guild of Outcasts, getting comfortable, before I had the confidence to go causing chaos in the book threads. 

I would discourage guilds as exclusive clubs- which I don't think is a problem we have at the moment- and I don't think we need any more guilds than we have. I think the guilds that are in existence now should be allowed to stay and discuss whatever they want, as long as they are not spamming and continue to serve the purpose of uniting people with shared interests.


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## Uminya (Nov 1, 2003)

Not that my opinion matters much at all, but I would hope that the guilds could stay. I never really saw anything wrong with any of the "Front Page Guilds"...Sure, some of them could use/could have used a bit more Tolkien discussion, but I like to think that we're more than *just* a discussion page.

We're a community here, and allowing people with similar Tolkien views to socialize in their own little niche seems--to me--to be the best way of letting people have a good time while still being about Tolkien.


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