# afterlife in LOTR



## Estrella (May 23, 2003)

In The LOTR, there were hints at some sort of afterlife, but never any definite clues as to exactly what the beliefs in an afterlife were. I was wondering if anybody had any ideas on this.


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## BlackCaptain (May 23, 2003)

The Halls of Mandos. A place over in Aman... Check out the Silmarillion!


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## Ithrynluin (May 23, 2003)

You may find this thread of some interest - concerning the fate of Men.

The Elves go to the Halls of Mandos, as do Dwarves presumably.


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## Estrella (May 23, 2003)

i haven't read the Simillarion. I will though. And i thought elves were immortal... hmmm 

Thank ya!


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## BlackCaptain (May 23, 2003)

Well they are... But if they're killed in battle then their 'spirit', if thats what it's called, goes to the Halls of Mandos


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## Estrella (May 23, 2003)

oh ya...


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## Lantarion (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BlackCaptain_
> But if they're killed in battle then their 'spirit', if thats what it's called, goes to the Halls of Mandos.


I haven't read all of the HoMEs, but I think the spirit is called the _fëa_, as opposed to the body or _hröa_.


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## Inderjit S (May 24, 2003)

Just a correction, Elven fea is _summoned_ by Namo to go to the Halls of Mandos, they didn't have to go, many could and did refuse the summons and remained in M-E. Dwarves were said to have seperate halls in Mandos, and Men were said to wait there for a time before departing beyond the circles of the world.


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Dec 26, 2004)

'The Houses of Healing':


> Slowly the lights of the torches in front of him [Meriadoc] flickered and went out, and he was walking in a darkness; and he thought: ‘This is a tunnel leading to a tomb; *there we shall stay forever*.’


It seems that the Hobbits (or at least Meriadoc) did not *believe* in an afterlife (other than staying forever in a tomb).


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## Arvegil (Dec 28, 2004)

Ardamir the Blessed said:


> 'The Houses of Healing': It seems that the Hobbits (or at least Meriadoc) did not *believe* in an afterlife (other than staying forever in a tomb).


I suggest that, more than a statement of atheism, this might be designed to parallel the Hobbits' experience with the Barrow-Wight in that tomb- the tunnel, the entrance...


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## Eledhwen (Dec 29, 2004)

Merry was seized with a black despair, and his thoughts at that time cannot be attributed even to himself when normal, let alone Hobbitry in general.

The Dialogue of Finrod and Andreth sheds interesting light on Middle-earth mortality, and one of the better discussions on this can be found here.

The _immortality_ of Elves is limited to the life of Arda, so it is not infinite. Tolkien mentions this in a BBC radio interview which I have found at times sloshing around the internet (his voice is mumbly, thanks to the pipe in his mouth, but transcriptions are also circulating). What happens to the Elves when the earth itself is brought to an end, I don't know; but I do not think it would be in Tolkien's thought that they are destroyed, but rather that they join the race of Men in a renewed heaven and earth (rather like teh one Christianity has in the book of Revelation). I vaguely remember reading a short passage about such a renewal, possibly in the Sil. I'll have to go and look for it; I could be mis-remembering (not the first time!)


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## Arvegil (Dec 29, 2004)

Eledhwen said:


> What happens to the Elves when the earth itself is brought to an end, I don't know; but I do not think it would be in Tolkien's thought that they are destroyed, but rather that they join the race of Men in a renewed heaven and earth (rather like teh one Christianity has in the book of Revelation). I vaguely remember reading a short passage about such a renewal, possibly in the Sil. I'll have to go and look for it; I could be mis-remembering (not the first time!)


The Dialogue of Finrod and Andreth addresses this. Finrod, besides the very real possibility of non-existence, contemplates a future where Elves are subordinate to Men. Men become the creators (or sub-creators) of Arda Unmarred, while the Elves' task is to provide a living history of Arda Marred through their superior memories.


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## Eledhwen (Dec 29, 2004)

Thanks Arvegil. I have read Morgoth's Ring, but I don't own a copy yet (got to leave something for my husband to get for birthdays!) and my memory wanes over time 

BTW, there's a transcript of Tolkien's radio interview  here. The bit I was on about was


> _JRR Tolkien:_ Therefore the Elves are immortal in a sense. I had to use immortal, I didn't mean that they were eternally immortal, merely that they are very longeval and their longevity probably lasts as long as the inhabitability of the Earth.


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