# Tuor's Vision



## Ancalagon (Oct 9, 2002)

> And thereupon Ulmo lifted up a mighty horn, and blew upon it a single great note, to which the roaring of the storm was but a wind-flaw upon a lake. And as he heard that note, and was encompassed by it, and filled with it, it seemed to Tuor that the coasts of Middle-earth vanished, and he surveyed all the waters of the world in a great vision: from the veins of the lands to the mouths of the rivers, and from the strands and estuaries out into the deep. The Great Sea he saw through its unquiet regions teeming with strange forms, even to its lightless depths, in which amid the everlasting darkness there echoed voices terrible to mortal ears. Its measureless plains he surveyed with the swift sight of the Valar, lying windless under the eye of Anar, or glittering under the horned Moon, or lifted in hills of wrath that broke upon the Shadowy Isles," until remote upon the edge of sight, and beyond the count of leagues, he glimpsed a mountain, rising beyond his mind's reach into a shining cloud, and at its feet a long surf glimmering. And even as he strained to hear the sound of those far waves, and to see clearer that distant light, the note ended, and he stood beneath the thunder of the storm, and lightning many-branched rent asunder the heavens above him. And Ulmo was gone, and the sea was in tumult, as the wild waves of Ossë rode against the walls of Nevrast.



Why did Ulmo show this vision to Tuor upon their meeting at Nevrast? The sheer depth of this vision was unlike any other given to Man by the Valar before or after this event.


> Ulmo spoke to Tuor of Valinor and its darkening, and the Exile of the Noldor, and the Doom of Mandos, and the hiding of the Blessed Realm.


 There is no doubting Ulmo's generosity with this information, yet why the vision? Could it have been to add visual comprehension to Ulmo's words, his realm and Valinor far beyond Tuor's reach and imagination?


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## Gothmog (Oct 9, 2002)

To me it seems that the vision is a way to open Tuor to the power that will help him to deliver the message to Turgon in Gondolin and have it accepted. Tuor spoke with the words of Ulmo before Turgon.


> And all that heard the voice of Tuor marvelled, doubting that this were in truth a Man of mortal race, for his words were the words of the Lord of Waters that came to him in that hour.


 The Silmarillion: Chapter 23: Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin.

Ulmo wanted Turgon to listen fully to the message and therefore did not just rely on Tuor as a carrier of simple words but of the power and authority of the Lord of Waters. To do this he needed to open Tuor’s mind and heart to the Valar and in the seeing and feeling the vision of Ulmo, a channel was opened allowing for the words spoken by Tuor in that hour to achieve this.


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## Ancalagon (Oct 9, 2002)

Thank-you for your reply Gothmog.

As we have discussed on MSM, I cannot help but feel there is more to it than this. I cannot equate the potency of the words, that Ulmo spoke through Tuor to Turgon, with the content of the vision. The two just do not correspond. However, as we both agree, Osse broke short the vision with his tumult of waves. 

I feel that Mandos, acted through Osse in anger at Ulmo's actions to aid the Noldor through Tuor. That seems far-fetched I know, but this quote seems to suggest it is accurate;


> . "Go now," said Ulmo, "lest the Sea devour thee! For Ossë obeys the will of Mandos, and he is wroth, being a servant of the Doom."



How much more was Ulmo prepared to show Tuor? Too much maybe?


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## Gothmog (Oct 9, 2002)

I do not think that it was Mandos who was the guiding hand in Osse's interupting of the vision. After all why would he be so annoyed, Mandos was the Doomsayer of the Valar but he only pronounced his dooms at the bidding of Manwe. While he is indeed 'a servant of the doom' he did not make it. I believe that it is Manwe himself to whom we should look for reason behind the 'will of Mandos'.


> There they beheld suddenly a dark figure standing high upon a rock that looked down upon the shore. Some say that it was Mandos himself, and no lesser herald of Manwe.


 the Silmarillion: of the Flight of the Noldor.
So I would say that as a Herald of Manwe he would not be likely to send Osse on such a mission unless it were first the will of Manwe.

As for How much Ulmo would have shown, I have no doubt that Tuor would have seen more of Aman, but not I think a great deal. Too great a look at the Undying land would probably have destroyed him. Look at what happened later with Numenor. They could just see a little of Tol-Eressea and that ended up with the destruction of the entire Island. Ulmo wanted to open his mind and heart not destroy them.


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## Ceorl (Oct 10, 2002)

Wow that description sounds great, where did you find it, HoME? I would really like to read that. 

I would say that Ulmo is attempting to give Tuor a taste of what it is like to be Immortal like the Elves; the beauty and knowledge preserved, so that he understood how much the Noldor stood to lose should Gondolin fall. Thereby impressing upon him the imprtance of his task; and that he must not fail in it.


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## Confusticated (Oct 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ceorl _
> *Wow that description sounds great, where did you find it, HoME? I would really like to read that.*


Thank you Ceorl. I was wondering where that came from because I didn't think it was in The Silmarillion or BOLT2. I figured I was just an idiot...
I was of the thought that Ulmo may have done this to cause fear in Tuor. In Bolt2 it says that.."Ulmo grew in dread lest Tuor dwell forver here (along the shore)" or something to that effect...But Ulmo grew in dread to get Tuor to quit loitering around. I think Ulmo was more or less saying with his vision "You like the sea huh? Here, have some more! I am mighty!...now get on your way" 
I can't be sure though since I have not read the version with those quotes postd by Ancalagon... I'm off to check UT...

I'm back. I found those quotes posted by Ancalagon are in UT..which I haven't read yet since I just got it on MSword.
I think that my idea above can still hold true for this version though because of this..


> *"I go, Lord! Yet now my heart yearneth rather to the Sea."
> And thereupon Ulmo lifted up a mighty horn,* and blew upon it a single great note, to which the roaring of the storm was but a wind-flaw upon a lake. And as he heard that note, and was encompassed by it, and filled with it, it seemed to Tuor that the coasts of Middle-earth vanished, and he surveyed...


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## Lhunithiliel (Oct 12, 2002)

Well, I never imagined that Dragons could be romantic!  
Anc, this is one of my favourite extracts.
When I read these lines, believe me!, I physically feel how my mind separates from the body and flies, and MINE are the eyes that see the places and the things Ulmo is showing to Tuor.... 
Please, forgive me, but I just have to quote it again:


> The Great Sea he saw through its unquiet regions teeming with strange forms, even to its lightless depths, in which amid the everlasting darkness there echoed voices terrible to mortal ears. Its measureless plains he surveyed with the swift sight of the Valar, lying windless under the eye of Anar, or glittering under the horned Moon, or lifted in hills of wrath that broke upon the Shadowy Isles," until remote upon the edge of sight, and beyond the count of leagues, he glimpsed a mountain, rising beyond his mind's reach into a shining cloud, and at its feet a long surf glimmering.


<**_sigh_ **>

Now, to your question...though I hate to spoil beauty by reason!

There can be two theories here - one _black_ and the other _white_ (or _noble_ if you prefer).
The _black_ - Well, Ulmo had long ago decided it was going to be a _man_ who should go to warn Gondolin. Why not a Maia? Why not himself? Why not somebody from those other Valar who pitied the elves' misfortune and wanted to help them?.... Because these forces were under the direct "control" by Eru through Manwe. They were not allowed to interfere....and Melkor's fate was well known in these circles of Aman's society....who would wish the same ? Then, why not some elf? Elves were under the constant pursuit by Morgoth and his servants. Besides I doubt that any elf would have been let enter the secret valey. The Gondolin people knew the old prophecy and it said that a _Man_ would come not an elf. So, a representative of the wretched mortal inferior race would suit Ulmo's plans perfectly well. 
Why he showed him the vision? >>> Ulmo to Tuor (through and by the vision): " _See how great we are?! We are the Gods! What you see is our world and that of the elves and YOU must now do your best and fulfill your duty to your gods and to your superior brothers!"_ This could be even backed up by the fact that Ulmo spoke to the man in imperative, for example:


> . "Go now," said Ulmo, "lest the Sea devour thee! For Ossë obeys the will of Mandos, and he is wroth, being a servant of the Doom."


In conclusion for the _black_ theory - Tuor was just a puppet for Ulmo's plans and the vision was shown only to demonstrate might over the poor mortal.
Now - the _white_ - Remember how terrified was Tuor when Ulmo showed up? He trew himself down and did not dare even look at the "God". But Ulmo had already estimated that Tuor was brave and dignified enough to fufill such a difficult task. The vision Ulmo then showed as to lift Tuor's spirit high and show him that what he was asked to do was to save the magnificence of the world he could see. That was something worth even dying - so great, so beautiful, so full of esence and importance....it was the cradle of Tuor race, it was its present and its future if only he - a mortal man, would dare undertake the dangers of the task.

This is how I see it.


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## Ancalagon (Oct 18, 2002)

> And it is a sign that the Valar are still there and do not ignore the hardships for Men in Middle-earth, and that in the West there is still a light that does not fade.



I would contest this interpretation. Realistically the Valars contribution to the Race of Men was at best, pathetic. A few gestures made by Ulmo, against the will of Manwe and foregoing the Doom of Mandos does not constitute a prophetic statement that one day all Men will be free of tyranny. Tuor certainly was given a sign that hope would lie in the West, and that his fate lay therein. However, Manwe's stubborness, Mandos' Doom upon the Noldor and the closing of the West against their return, sealed the doom of Men along with the Firstborn. Men as a race were ignored because of the actions of the Noldor. Punished by stubborness and inconsideration.

Even following the War of Wrath the lot of Men remained an unhappy existence under the dominion of Sauron, whom the Valar failed to curb. Mens usefullness was in gaining the Noldor a passage back to the West, yet they were forsaken and teased with the 'gift' that was Numenor.


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## Ancalagon (Jun 5, 2007)

Lhun, I never did ask, which of these 'black' or 'white' scenarios do you actually believe to be nearer the mark?


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## Gothmog (Oct 11, 2007)

Ancalagon said:


> Why did Ulmo show this vision to Tuor upon their meeting at Nevrast? The sheer depth of this vision was unlike any other given to Man by the Valar before or after this event. There is no doubting Ulmo's generosity with this information, yet why the vision? Could it have been to add visual comprehension to Ulmo's words, his realm and Valinor far beyond Tuor's reach and imagination?



On reading through this thread once more I thought a little further than Tuor's trip to Gondolin. Perhaps the answer to the question can be found in the last paragraph of chapter 23 of the Silmarillion: Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin



> In those days Tuor felt old age creep upon him, and ever a longing for the deeps of the Sea grew stronger in his heart. Therefore he built a great ship, and he named it Eärrámë, which is Sea-Wing; and with Idril Celebrindal he set sail into the sunset and the West, and came no more into any tale or song. But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of men.


It may be that the vision was intended to set Tuor on the path that would eventually lead him to sail into the West and become the only one born of Men to be allowed to dwell in Valinor and take the place of Luthien as one of the Eldar. After all, it was well known that Mortals were not permitted to enter Valinor and at that time even the Eldar were not welcome. So what else would prompt Tuor to attempt this?


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## solicitr (Oct 19, 2007)

I think the principal reason Ulmo chose a Man, or rather why a Man was essential to his plans, is because the ultimate goal was Earendil's embassage to the Valar. Even if an Elf could somehow have made the voyage, Silmaril or no, only a (part) Man could plead for mercy on his people, guiltless in feanor's revolt and the Kinslaying.


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## Elfarmari (Nov 17, 2007)

Gothmog said:


> It may be that the vision was intended to set Tuor on the path that would eventually lead him to sail into the West and become the only one born of Men to be allowed to dwell in Valinor and take the place of Luthien as one of the Eldar. After all, it was well known that Mortals were not permitted to enter Valinor and at that time even the Eldar were not welcome. So what else would prompt Tuor to attempt this?



Or perhaps this vision was given to Tuor to pass on to his son, to inspire his voyage, as solicitr mentioned. Tolkien wrote a beautiful poem, I think published in the Shaping of Middle-earth, that is said to be written by Tuor for his son Earendil. I don't have that book with me, so I can't quote it, but the idea of Tuor passing on the vision to his son to follow (seeing that the sea is vast, but finite, and knowing what lies beyond) makes sense to me.


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## Gothmog (Nov 18, 2007)

Elfarmari, a very good point. It may well be that the most important part of the path onto which Tuor was guided by the vision was indeed the passing on to his son. Tuor's own journey to the West would then only be a happy byproduct of it.


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## Ancalagon (Dec 5, 2007)

Some excellent points raised there, particularly in relation to Eärendil. Now I suspect Tuor's path was mapped not simply to bring warning to Turgon but as fate decreed, meet Idril Celebrindal, daughter of Turgon. In truth, Ulmo knew long in advance that Tuor would go to Turgon, not only to bring tidings of war or impending doom but that in their meeting the fate of Elves and Men rested through Eärendil. 



> "If I choose to send thee, Tuor son of Huor, then believe not that thy one sword is not worth the sending. For the valour of die Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which they had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness."


Unfinished Tales



> But if this peril draweth nigh indeed, then even from Nevrast one shall come to warn thee, and from him beyond ruin and fire hope shall be born for Elves and Men.


 The Silmarillion



> Mandos spoke concerning his fate; and he said: 'Shall mortal Man step living upon the undying lands, and yet live?' But Ulmo said: 'For this he was born into the world. And say unto me: whether is he Eärendil Tuor's son of the line of Hador, or the son of Idril, Turgon's daughter, of the Elven-house of Finwë?'


The Silmarillion

The vision is overwhelming but somewhat a ruse that ultimately held no value for Tuor other than the glory of seeing through the eyes of a Valar. There is no doubt that Ulmo used the vision to impress upon Tuor the majesty of Arda and the realm of Valinor. From this Tuor was filled with the power and words of Ulmo, which he in turn delivered to Turgon with absolute conviction. Yet, despite it all the Doom of Mandos continued on course and Tuor was but a small part of the grand plan. 

Eärendil was the prize, Tuor and Idril the vessels of the Doom. The vision was Tuor's to behold and his alone.


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## Gothmog (Dec 5, 2007)

Ancalagon said:


> The vision is overwhelming but somewhat a ruse that ultimately held no value for Tuor other than the glory of seeing through the eyes of a Valar. There is no doubt that Ulmo used the vision to impress upon Tuor the majesty of Arda and the realm of Valinor. From this Tuor was filled with the power and words of Ulmo, which he in turn delivered to Turgon with absolute conviction. Yet, despite it all the Doom of Mandos continued on course and Tuor was but a small part of the grand plan.
> 
> Eärendil was the prize, Tuor and Idril the vessels of the Doom. The vision was Tuor's to behold and his alone.


I agree that the vision is overwhelming. However, I think that it is a mistake to call it 'a ruse that ultimately held no value for Tuor'.

Yes it did indeed impress upon Tuor the majesty of the Valar and of the realm of Valinor and this did help when he talked to Turgon but do you think that there was ever any thought in the mind of Ulmo that Tuor or any other alive at that time could turn aside the Doom of the Noldor?

Of course the Doom of Mandos continued on course and Tuor was only a small part of the grand plan. However, even a Very Small part can be of immense value. I would say rather, that the vision was intended to convay this very impression of the Power and Majesty of the Valar and of Valinor because "Eärendil was the prize". It was important that this impression be passed on, not to turn aside the 'Doom' but in order to fulfill it through the son of Tuor and Idril.

As a secondary point, Tuor gained by seemingly traveling to Valinor himself to 'balance the books' by having his doom changed from that of a Man to that of an Eldar.


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