# Slavery in ME



## Hisoka Morrow (Apr 28, 2021)

There're not few sources proving that slavery existed in ME, such as Morgoth's prisoners's policies, Numenor's ME's natives policies after the King's Men became the ruling party. Yet is that all?JRRT didn't ever mention the Faithful of Numenor, even in King Tar-Palantir's reign, sanctioning the imperial slavery over the natives. Yeah, just provide anything you know, from JRRT's sources about ME's slavery.


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## 1stvermont (Apr 28, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> There're not few sources proving that slavery existed in ME, such as Morgoth's prisoners's policies, Numenor's ME's natives policies after the King's Men became the ruling party. Yet is that all?JRRT didn't ever mention the Faithful of Numenor, even in King Tar-Palantir's reign, sanctioning the imperial slavery over the natives. Yeah, just provide anything you know, from JRRT's sources about ME's slavery.



I think the hobbit mentioned slaves that were abducted by the orcs of the misty mountains. Also, I am pretty sure Sauron in Mordor had large-scale slave operations.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Apr 28, 2021)

1stvermont said:


> I am pretty sure Sauron in Mordor had large-scale slave operations.


Yeah, Dark side never stopped enslaving other races.


1stvermont said:


> I think the hobbit mentioned slaves that were abducted by the orcs of the misty mountains


Would it be too far to do so?Hobbits's residential was surrounded by humans and other races, right?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 28, 2021)

I believe 1st Vermont meant it was mentioned in "The Hobbit" -- the book -- rather than mentioned "by a hobbit".


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## 1stvermont (Apr 28, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I believe 1st Vermont meant it was mentioned in "The Hobbit" -- the book -- rather than mentioned "by a hobbit".



Correct.


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## Alcuin (Apr 29, 2021)

Slavery in Middle-earth was probably ubiquitous, as it was in our real world and remains to this day in some places in our world, though perhaps other words and terms with less impact are used to describe it.

Morgoth was the first slaver in Tolkien’s mythos, taking Elves from Cuiviénen whom he corrupted into the original Orcs. During the First Age, he enslaved Sindar, Exiled Noldor, Dark Elves (i.e., Avari), and Men, whom he worked to death in his mines, forges, and smithies, besides whatever other nefarious uses to which he put them. Sauron also took and enslaved these people during the First Age: when Lúthien spoke the words that bound together the stones of the Wizard’s Tower on Tol-in-Gaurhoth, they came forth blinking in the light of morning. Men also kept slaves: the folk of the House of Hador living in Hithlum were enslaved after their defeat in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad by the Easterlings who followed Ulfang the Treacherous, so I think we may safely assume that Men in the rest of Middle-earth were also in the habit of keeping slaves.

The Second Age seems to have begun with considerably less slavery, particularly in the coastal regions and in Eregion. In the White Mountains of what later became Gondor, worshippers of Sauron took Númenórean settlers as slaves, according to the tale “Tal-Elmar” in _Peoples of Middle-earth_, though the Númenórean captain told Tal-Elmar the Númenóreans did not keep slaves. Besides whatever Men were doing beyond the knowledge of the Eldar, Orcs continued to take and keep slaves for the same purposes as Morgoth had, for mining, forging, and smithying, as well, likely, for growing food. As the Shadow fell upon Númenor following the War of the Elves and Sauron (likely due to the influence of the three Númenóreans who held Rings of Power) and their rebellion against the Valar began to take shape, Númenóreans among the King’s Men might have begun enslaving some of the inhabitants of Middle-earth. I think the indication is that slavery became more widespread as the Second Age drew toward a close, until the unfortunate natives of Middle-earth in many cases probably found themselves facing the dire choice of ruinous, utter slavery under the followers of Sauron and the increasing tribute demands of the Númenóreans, tribute that might or _might not_ include slavery, but would likely include corvée labor (intermittent unpaid forced labor). I don’t think that slavery by Númenóreans during the Second Age is ever made explicit in Tolkien’s work, though certainly tribute is, and I imagine forced labor – corvée labor, serfdom (not slavery, but where a peasant is unable to leave the land he works), perhaps eventually including slavery – was practiced in those regions dominated by the King’s Men, which would be most Númenórean territory in Middle-earth.

The Third Age would seem (to me) to continue conditions at the end of the Second Age. Orcs continued to seize folk as slaves. The Haradrim might be expected to practice it. Various Easterling invaders took slaves from the folk of Rhovanion and from northern Gondor (Calenardhon in particular: Rohan did not yet exist), and after the Kin-Strife and the desertion by the navy of Gondor to Umbar, the Corsairs of Umbar took slaves from the coastlands of Gondor. Certainly upon his return to Mordor, Sauron maintained a vast empire of slaves which he replenished with captives sent from Harad and Rhûn: the lands around the Sea of Núrnen were devoted to growing food to feed Sauron’s armies.

There is no mention of Elves keeping slaves, and no mention either of the Edain or the Faithful Númenóreans or their Exiled descendants keeping slaves. I am quite certain there must have been poor people among them, often heavily indebted in a world (at least in the late Third Age) with little currency in circulation, but there is no mention of slavery in Eriador or Wilderland besides the Orcs, _except_ in Isengard, where Saruman had enslaved people to tend fields to feed his armies. Nor is there ever any mention of Dwarves or Hobbits keeping slaves.

As an aside, I think the Entwives were probably taken and enslaved by Sauron. Tolkien suggests this might have been the case (see _Letter_ 144). The appearance of the Olog-hai, their clever intelligence, their speed, and their resistance to the sun suggest to me that they were likely some developed through some corruption of Ents: Treebeard himself hints at this: “Trolls are … counterfeits made by [Morgoth] in mockery of Ents, as Orcs were of Elves.” (“Treebeard”, _Two Towers_) Just as the Uruk-hai of the late Third Age were stronger and fiercer that normal Orcs and could tolerate the sun, so also the Olog-hai were stronger, fiercer, and smarter than Trolls and could tolerate the Sun. Treebeard suspected the Uruk-hai were Orcs mixed with Men; I suspect the Olog-hai were Trolls mixed with Entwives.


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## Elthir (Apr 29, 2021)

Responding to the orc and troll aside: I don't think the Entwives had anything to do with the making of the Olog-hai. For me, Tolkien explains their endurance to the Sun with: *"they could endure the sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them"* [Appendix F] as they were *"filled with the evil will of their master."*

And with respect to Orc tolerance of the sun, I think we have a mixed bag. In my opinions . . .

Saruman's Uruk-hai "Orc-folk" -- *trained* to endure the sun.
Saruman's aptly named "Half-orcs" -- helped with sun-tolerance by being a mix of man and orc.

Amid the famous boastings of the Uruk-hai as found in the chapter *The Uruk-hai*, the other orcs (two other groups) don't do that badly by comparison!

Ugluk calls the Northerners *"only half-trained"* mountain maggots when they complain about running in the sunlight, but again, they don't do that badly in my opinion. I mean, fear is a great motivator, no doubt, but it's not like they are spiraling off into dizzy fits and fainting.

And the Mordor orcs do just as well as the Uruk-hai -- or that is, they appear to, given the larger description: *"hour after hour they [the orks] ran"* and when the Mordor orcs were *"gradually passed" *by the Uruks it's said that this could have been part of a plan by Grishnakh -- so JRRT essentially gives the reader an alternative to being less hardy.

And while the Northerners were flagging by the time the Isengarders came upon them, this is *after* the description that: *"a few of the larger and bolder Northerners remained with them."*

So to sum up, the Isengards _with a few Northerners_ appear to run very well under the sun, and the Mordorians arguably do just as well, given that JRRT allows, at least, for their lagging (somewhat) to be due to a plan.

The Half-orcs are not mentioned here. Merry describes them (see below) and they appear in *The Battle of the Fords of Isen* too, where -- back to the uruks for a moment -- we read that the fierce uruks: *"were heavily armed but trained to move at great speed for many miles,"* and where (now over to a mention of a Half-orc) Theodred was hewn down by a great "Orc-man".


" . . . And there were battalions of Men, too. Many of them carried torches, and in the flare I could see their faces. Most of them were ordinary men, rather tall and dark-haired, and grim but not particularly evil-looking. But there were some others that were horrible: man-high, but with goblin-faces, sallow, leering, squint-eyed. Do you know, they reminded me at once of that Southerner at Bree: only he was not so obviously orc-like as most of these were."

"I thought of him too," said Aragorn. "We had many of these half-orcs to deal with at Helm's Deep."

So in my opinion we have Half-orcs and Great Orcs (Uruks) as part of Saruman's lot.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Apr 29, 2021)

Elthir said:


> sallow, leering, squint-eyed. Do you know, they reminded me at once of that Southerner at Bree: only he was not so obviously orc-like


I'll have you know my girlfriends, in fact, found me quite handsome. 😀


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## Hisoka Morrow (Apr 30, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> ...I don’t think that slavery by Númenóreans during the Second Age is ever made explicit in Tolkien’s work, though certainly tribute is, and I imagine forced labor – corvée labor, serfdom (not slavery, but where a peasant is unable to leave the land he works), perhaps eventually including slavery – was practiced in those regions dominated by the King’s Men, which would be most Númenórean territory in Middle-earth....


I see, thus even after the King's men became the ruling party, the Numenor's slavery was still under question, not certainly similar with the slave trafficking at least. Then maybe I misunderstand the meaning of "enslaved" in chapter of Fall Of Numenor. I thought this "enslaved"might be something like slave trafficking(economic tribute from their colonies), or capturing the ME natives as war prisoners.
Yet it seemed you prefer that these sources were something like legalization of forced labor and racial discrimination, treating the ME's natives as lower-class citizens rather than simple slaves, right? 
As an result, in the whole Numenor empire, ME natives would be forced to keep their social identity as slaves forever, and their life couldn't be ameliorated via redemption, being liberated by owners, and so on, right?


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## Alcuin (May 1, 2021)

Since “Akallabêth” in _Silmarillion_ says “many strong slaves to row beneath the lash,” then I agree the Númenóreans were taking slaves from Middle-earth. I don’t think that automatically implies that a slave’s “life couldn't be ameliorated via redemption, [or] being liberated by [his] owners.” Whether that was permitted is another matter altogether. Redemption, whether through self-purchase by the slave (possible and well-documented in Roman times) or through purchase by another freeman (documented in the pre-Civil War United States), was up to the slave owner, making emancipation a case-by-case situation. Roman slaves were generally recognized as having the right of personal redemption, though I do not know if that was always true in every case. Chattel slaves in the pre-Civil War American South _might_ obtain the right to purchase their freedom, but could obtain freedom either through direct emancipation by their masters or through purchase and emancipation by any free person. I am not sufficiently aware of redemption and emancipation practices in the rest of the world or human history to comment beyond those two examples. 

What situations maintained in Middle-earth is speculation. I doubt Orcs released their slaves, or that Corsairs freed their galley slaves, even when they became useless at the tasks originally assigned them. Orcs, I suspect, killed and cannibalized old, sick, or injured slaves; I don’t know what the Corsairs (or Easterlings) would do, and I doubt the slaves of Nurn fared well when their days of productive labor drew to an end.

I think you’ve provided sufficient evidence that the King’s Men of Númenor, the majority of Númenóreans by the end of the Second Age, were keeping slaves.


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 2, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> I doubt Orcs released their slaves


Hurin and Gollum were released, though it's uncertain orcs would assign war prisoners into slavery for sure or not. XD


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## Gothmog (May 10, 2021)

Hisoka Morrow said:


> Hurin and Gollum were released, though it's uncertain orcs would assign war prisoners into slavery for sure or not. XD


Hurin and Gollum were not released by the orcs. Hurin was held captive and released by Morgoth and Gollum was released by Sauron.


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 10, 2021)

Gothmog said:


> Hurin and Gollum were not released by the orcs. Hurin was held captive and released by Morgoth and Gollum was released by Sauron.


Oh yes,orcs didn't have that much intelligence, I even forget that😂😂😂


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