# White Tower Dream



## Maeglin (Dec 30, 2002)

*Frodo's Dream*



> Eventually he fell into a vague dream, in which he seemed to be looking out of a high window over a dark sea of tangled trees. Down below among the roots there was the sound of creatures crawling and snuffling. He felt sure they would smell him out sooner or later. Then he heard a noise in the distance. At first he thought it was a great wind coming over the leaves of the forest. Then he knew that it was not the leaves, but the sound of the Sea far-off; a sound he had never heard in waking life, though it had often troubled his dreams. Suddenly he found he was out in the open. There were no trees after all. He was on a dark heath, and there was a strange salt smell in the air. Looking up he saw before him a tall white tower, standing alone on a high ridge. A great desire came over to him to climb the tower and see the Sea. He started to struggle up the ridge towards the tower: but suddenl y a light came in the sky, and there was a noise of thunder.



From "A Conspiracy Unmasked"

What exactly does this dream mean? I would have thought it was foreshadowing of the end when Frodo sails away from the Grey Havens, but there are 2 things wrong with that: 
1. The whole snuffling thing and Frodo being afraid the creatures would sniff him out soon, that sounds a lot like the Nazgul searching for him, that has nothing to do with the Havens, unless you count his wound from the morgul blade as being the reason he left Middle-Earth, but still thats only distantly related.
2. Climbing up the tower, well I guess thats acceptable, there is a tower at the Havens. But the lightning strike and thunder, that isn't related to when Frodo sails away, it was a clear night when he left, there was no violent weather or violence of any kind, which the thunder and lightning would symbolize.

So anyway, does anyone have any thoughts/comments/ideas about this whole thing?

*Glorfindel's "Frodo's Dream" and samjor's "The White Tower Dream have been merged as they are on the same subject.

Gothmog*


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## Gothmog (Dec 31, 2002)

Interesting question.

The dream that foreshadows his going to the west happened in the house of Tom Bombadil I think. This one seems to hint at what is to come first. Fear, Darkness and through this to the light.

Perhaps it was Irmo showing the path that Frodo was to tread and saying that there was light to be found at the end, even if it is forgotten about.

Or another possibility is that the light and noise was saying that it was not yet time for him to go to the tower. He yet had his path to walk!


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## Lantarion (Dec 31, 2002)

1. Yes, I also think that was referring to the Nazgûl.
2. I think the whole concept of a "white tower" is sort of fantastic and hopeful.. And what with towers playing such a big role in the whole book (the tower of Minas Tirith, Barad Dûr, Isengard, etc.), I think it has a historical and objective meaning, rather than perhaps a metaphorical one.
Very good question, Glor, thank you!


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## chrome_rocknave (Dec 31, 2002)

Yeah I agree...although I always thought it was foreshadowing his departure from ME. I suppose it could be showing that Frodo was not to give up hope, no matter how dark it may seem---because there would be a release from his pain and doubt in the end.


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## samjor (Mar 20, 2003)

hello,

I was wanting if you could tell me what was the point behind the dream Frodo had about the white tower and climbing the cliff?
The dream occurred the nite he stayed at crickhollow.

Thank you


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 20, 2003)

It has a weird history to it. Read The Return of the Shadow, it will help alot.

The Sea is a forshadow of the end of the book.


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## samjor (Mar 20, 2003)

Return of the shadow?


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 20, 2003)

Volume VI of The History of Middle-earth.

Look here.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/061808357X/ref=ase_oneringthecomple/102-5404314-7791355


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## samjor (Mar 20, 2003)

To be honest I dont feel confident yet to delve into that part of the history.


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 20, 2003)

I don't have the books on me right now, but I'll look over it tonight and reply back tomorrow.


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## samjor (Mar 20, 2003)

ok thanks friend


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 21, 2003)

Ok I was getting the Crickhollow dream and the dream in Bombadils house confused.

The creatures sniffing and scratching aroung the trees could be the Nazgul, Orcs, or Gollum, not really sure.

The white tower that Frodo see's is probably Elostirion on the Tower Hills West of The Shire. From the top of the Tower you could see the Sea, and it held the palantir that would only look to the True West. So I see it as a foreshadow of his sailing away at the end of the book.

Now the history of the dream.
At first there was only one dream, Frodo's dream of seeing Gandalf's imprisonment (dream in Bombadil house). But it was the two later dreams combined together. Before Saruman entered the story Gandalf was held captive in the West (White) Tower by the Nazgul. Tolkien could not decide where to put the dream in the story, first it was with the Elves in Woody End, then Crickhollow, then Bree, then back to Crickhollow.

The Treason of Isengard - The Fourth Phase
Everything in the dream is the same then...


> ...there were no trees after all. He was on a dark heath, and there was a strange salt smell in the air. Looking up he saw before him a tall white tower, standing alone on a high ridge. In it's topmost chamber a blue light shone dimly.
> As he drew nearer the tower loomed high above him. About its feet there was a wall of faintly gleaming stones, and outside the wall sat silent watchers: there seemed to be four black robed figures seated on black horses, gazing at the tower without moving, as if they had sat there for ever.
> He heard the soft fall of hoofs climbing up the hill behind him. The watchers all stirred...



When Saruman entered the picture the dreams were split up. 

T.T.o.Isengard - The Fourth Phase
Christopher Tolkien writes


> And so the tall white tower of Frodo's dream at Cickhollow in the final tale remains from what was the prcursor of Orthanc; and the thunder that he heard goes back to the interruption of his dream by Trotter's (Strider) thrusting back the shutters at The Prancing Pony.



Hope this helps alittle.


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## samjor (Mar 21, 2003)

Thank you Melko that gives me a better understanding.


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 21, 2003)

Your welcome. I really injoyed rereading that stuff. I'd forgotten alot of it.

But like just real dreams who knows what it means.


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## jallan (Mar 21, 2003)

I agree.

I think some of these dreams are intended not to be altogether or even at all prophetic, such as Frodo’s dream of wandering in Bag End looking for something but he can’t remember what.


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## The mouth of Sauron (May 23, 2017)

I know this is an old post but I was thinking about it, not sure if this is possible or not but could the white tower be that of Mina's Tirith? This is because the sea may not refer to going to Aman but could refer to the numenorians(those ancestors of Gondor and Armor, hope I sort that right) coming to ME. Then when the white tower falls it represents the near fall of Minas Tirith but then a light comes representing Rohan and more importantly Elessar


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