# The Man, The Myth



## Dengen-Goroth (Nov 25, 2001)

Well, recently, actually yesterday I picked up a book about Tolkien. Reading through it I saw how Tolkien had actually incorporated a number of themes, and had simply switched the names, and sometimes the roles of the characters. I thought it would be great fun to test not only your knowledge in Tolkien and his thought's, but also your knowledge of mythology. So i'll write down a certain scene, not word by word, and you tell me what myth you think influenced this. But it can also be a play, drama, etc. I'll give a hint if it's to vague.
Question 1- When Denethor sees that the Battle of Pellanor Feilds is srely lost, and dies, what Myth, Drama, or Play goes nerly perfectly with that scene.


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## Aerin (Nov 25, 2001)

Hm, the answer to this one is multiple choice! "The King dies when the battle seems lost" is a common theme. 
Let me see...
Ben Hur is the only one I can think of.
Darn, I can't remember the name of the other play I'm thinking about. Doesn't that occur in Shakespeare's works?


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## Dengen-Goroth (Nov 26, 2001)

Let be be a bit more specific. A clue perhaps. Denethor commited Suicide upon seeing who arrive...I can't say more, it will be far to obvious. Aerin, try agin. Good guess though.


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## Greymantle (Nov 26, 2001)

Romeo and Juliet, perhaps?


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## Aerin (Nov 26, 2001)

I think not, Greymantle. Romeo killed himself when he thought Juliet was dead, and Juliet killed herself when she found Romeo dead.


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## Greymantle (Nov 26, 2001)

Fine then! The language always starts to confuse me at that point..... as much as I love to hear language like Middle English, it is a little hard to follow.


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## Thorondor (Nov 26, 2001)

Here is my guess(most likely wrong): Shakespeare's Julius Caesar?


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## Gilraen (Dec 6, 2001)

greek mythology: i can't remember anyone's name but the prince who went off to kill the minotaur; his father saw the black sail (which was supposed to symbolise that le prince had perished) and leapt off a cliff. am i right ?


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## Uminya (Dec 6, 2001)

Aye, Thorondor, my thoughts exactly.

Was it Julius Caesar? Brutus and Cassius both commited suicide when their end seemed near. Also, the Dark Lord might be compared to Octavian, who (although wasn't evil by any means) was considered a tyrant by some.


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## Dengen-Goroth (Dec 9, 2001)

Prize to Gilraen!! theseus and the Minatour indeed. Well, that concludes week one, though it has stretched out quite a bit. I'll have the second myth in tomorrow.


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## Gilraen (Dec 14, 2001)

aha! theseus it was! (gives a pretty little curtsey).


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## Eomer Dinmention (Dec 14, 2001)

this games fun comon den


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## Dengen-Goroth (Dec 14, 2001)

I'm real sorry guys for the delay to many crazy projects, an I can't find the blasted book where it's all in. But since i'm going to my trusty Barnes and Noble I shall quickly come back bearing a few more. Be patient till tomorrow, and again I'm very very very sorry


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## Dengen-Goroth (Dec 16, 2001)

OK, after an all to long delay i'm back and have quite an interesting one for you guys this time. It's got a number of points, but once you get one you can easily get them all. 
Boromirs death is very akin to another's doom. This myth is not as ancient as greece, and may hve actually been.
Aragorn was and can be compared to this individual.
*Boromir's character and Aragorn's are not the same, though they are two main characters within this tale*


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## Odo Proudfoot (Jan 2, 2002)

Would that be Roland?

fG


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 7, 2002)

From what legend/true tale/myth would that be? (Just name it and you have won!)


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## Dain Ironfoot (Jan 7, 2002)

Romus and Romulus


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 11, 2002)

Nope, refer to the thing before my last post


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## Branwen (Jan 12, 2002)

Um...Zigfrid from German 'Nibelungs' song'?...


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 13, 2002)

Sorry to say no. If any of you want to give up, fine. Think Roland!


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## henzo33 (Jan 15, 2002)

Could the answer possibly be Achilles from the Iliad?


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## Bombur (Jan 15, 2002)

Are you talking about the Song of Roland, the stroy of some French dude who fought the Moors in Spain?
I have never read it, but I have heard of it.


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 15, 2002)

All very valid guesses, but still not striking the mark. Fine, I shall present you all with another hint. it's between 400 AD/ACE to 1000 AD/ACE.


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## henzo33 (Jan 16, 2002)

Dengen-Goroth,
Knowing Tolkien's field of expertise I would have to guess that the character Boromir could possibly relate back to the mighty viking warrior Gunnar in the Icelandic epic named "Njal's Saga". But if you are trying to relate Boromir's death to something from Arthurian Legend I would love to hear your reasoning. Otherwise your "clues" have been so vague that Tolkien himself would have no clue what you are talking about.


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 21, 2002)

Very well. I'm sorry to say no, you are incorrect as well. The last clue being-The death occured in Spain, I believe, and this saga was dealing wth someone from France who conquered a great deal of land.


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## Aldanil (Jan 21, 2002)

*the honor goes to Faded Glory*

As the primary identification has already been supplied by FG (although I can honestly claim to have murmurred the answer to myself beforehand as I was scrolling down to reach the last post), I'll just add a few details: the Frankish hero Roland asks his uncle Charlemagne for the honor of commanding the rear guard to protect the Emperor's departure from Spain by holding the strategic mountain-pass of Roncevaux (or Roncevalles); he is betrayed by the villainous Ganelon and set upon by an enormous horde of Saracens, but is too proud to blow his mighty horn and summon the main army to come back and rescue him until it's much too late. His vastly outnumbered band of valiant Franks lies dead around him, and his own temples have burst from the blowing of his horn (which Charlemagne does indeed hear from many leagues away), but the Saracens are still so fearful of him that they stand well off and rain down a hail of darts, spears, and arrows upon him from a distance. At last, feeling the approach of death, the hero draws his great sword Durendal and tries to destroy it, to prevent the hallowed weapon from falling into pagan hands; though he hews a great block of marble (conveniently standing in a grove of pine trees nearby) with it, the blade neither chips nor shatters. Roland turns his face toward Spain, so Charlemagne will know that he was not defeated, and with his sword and horn lying beneath him dies.

I first encountered this story, along with Beowulf and Sigurd and the tale of Rustem and Sohrab and all of those Greeks from Prometheus to Oedipus, in The Golden Treasury of Myths and Legends, which I've loved ever since my aunt gave it to me for Christmas when I was five, now twice three times seven years ago.


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## Melilot (Jan 21, 2002)

hey i dont know if this is just your game Alandil, or if others can challenge too? but ive got one that ive just noticed from reading other stuff. Let me know if you want me to post it.


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## Aldanil (Jan 21, 2002)

*not mine at all, Melilot*

Although I do appreciate what I'll presume to take as a compliment in your thinking that it might be...

As someone else remarked above, this here game is right fun! Come on, Dengen-Goroth, and cue up another one!


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## Melilot (Jan 21, 2002)

yea i just realized my mistake oops hehe but..... indeed i like this game lets have more!


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## henzo33 (Jan 22, 2002)

Now that the answer for your question has been made apparent i would advise evryone to take a read of "Njal's Saga" and all the other Icelandic Sagas from Medieval times. They are wonderful to read and as my previous answer reflected, there are many similarities that can be drawn from the LotR to these classic epics. Now let's get another challenge!


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## TulKas Astaldo (Jan 22, 2002)

Okay guys, here's a reverse question...

What popular, modern-day all-audience novel series (Won't give an exact number, but there are less than 6 books) has many names of places modeled after parts of LotR, namely parts of Bree?

(HINT: Buttbur)

It might take a while, unless somebody's a real fanatic...


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## Aldanil (Jan 24, 2002)

It's been a few days now, and no new challenge posted; Grinch-like, grim Dengen-Goroth has given up his gaming, I fear, and us gladsome gamers abandoned with it...


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 25, 2002)

I will throw out a new challenge tomorrow my friends! I am glad to see that you found the answer, albeit a bit slowly. but I must admit it was a tricky one. Ad isn't it incredible how alike these are, though obviously not perfectly. Prepare yourselves for the next batch!


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## Aldanil (Feb 2, 2002)

You said you'd be back "tomorrow" with a new challenge, but that was well more than a week ago now, alas; where have you gone, O Dengen-Goroth once so gamesome?


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## Dengen-Goroth (Feb 26, 2002)

One day turns into a few months. I am very sorry my friends. Now I present you with this next quetion. Elrond and Elros, brothers made to chose their race. What Legend from the days of Rome's growth is this from?*That does not mean this actally happened in Rome*


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## Aldanil (Feb 26, 2002)

Romulus and Remus would be my first guess "off the top of my head", but I'm a trifle uncertain as that seems a little too easy...


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## Dengen-Goroth (Feb 27, 2002)

Sorry but not correct. Like I said. It doesn't have to be from Rome. Think of the parents. That is my last clue. It is to much as it is.


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## Diabless (Feb 27, 2002)

Maybe it's because Romulus and Remus were half god. Rhea Silvia was their mother and Mars was their father. And Elros and Elrond's parents were sort of half and half as well. And Elrond is half-elven and Elros chose to be man. Another point is that both were abused as children- R and R lived iwth wolves, Elrond and Elros lived in a cave. (come to think of it they probably both lived in caves in their youth)


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## Dengen-Goroth (Feb 28, 2002)

Yes, it may seem as though it is. But I state again nay.


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