# dwarves and horses



## reem (Jan 13, 2003)

i'm rereading the Hobbit for the second time now, and i go to this part where the dwarves ride ponies...which reminded me that dwarves never ride horses. but WHY don't they ride horses?
Gimli once rode with Legolas in the LOTR, but only because he had to. and i remember in other stories that Dwarves never actually ride horses, only ponies...why is that? curious isn't it
reem


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## Aulë (Jan 13, 2003)

It's because they are small, and horses are big!
Therefore they can't ride horses....
Gimli rode the horse in LOTR because Legolas was controlling it.


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## FoolOfATook (Jan 13, 2003)

It's just one of those things that Dwarves don't do- like giving to charity, or being tossed


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## Legolaschick (Jan 13, 2003)

They don't ride 'cause they are so small and the I think are a little aferid of them


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## reem (Jan 14, 2003)

*is that it though??*

well, it could be because their too short and they can't control the horse, but i was reading this other book called 'Dragon Doom' by Dennis Mckiernan and it has a LOT of warves in it, abd they just wouldn't ride horses...but i got the impression it was a honor thing...just like you said about dwarves not being tossed and things like that...oh well
thanks anyway
reem


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## FoolOfATook (Jan 14, 2003)

It's probably worth remembering that Dwarves tend to live in environments where horses would be of little use.


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## reem (Jan 16, 2003)

have any of you read other stories with dwarves in them? 
i only just read one other than LOTR and it seemed to be more than just because their not used to horses or their too small for them or something like that...but i've not had much experience with dwarve-fantasy and the like. this just doesn't seem to be the right answer.
reem


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## jallan (Jan 19, 2003)

Generally young children learn to ride first on ponies, if one is available, for the same reason.

Horses are too big to be ridden on so comfortably by small people.

Also, ponies were also used for working in mines, rather than large horses, for obvious reasons. See for example Pit Ponies - John Talbot and Campaign to save ponies from pits.


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## Aragorn_Strider (Jan 20, 2003)

I agree with Reem in the whole honor notion, as we all know, Dwarfs can be pretty stubborn in their own set ways. 
I believe the whole honor thing, however, is because of the dwarfs inability to make use of such creature has resulted in them finding them inferior.


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## Green-Mantle (Jan 20, 2003)

It's quite simple. 



> It's because they are small, and horses are big.



Also...



> Horses are too big to be ridden on so comfortably by small people.



All that's needed is a simple observation, and one is then able to realise there is no such corrolation between the two, horses and Dwarves; though Dwarves riding ponies on the other hand, a perfect match.
I too agree with Reem, supporting the notion or idea that a Dwarves honour also explains rather well the logical reason to why it would seem improper, dishonourable for a Dwarf to ride a horse, for obvious reasons.


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## reem (Jan 22, 2003)

yah i think you guys are right. i think the origional reason is that horses are too large for them and they're not used to using them, plus they would look rediculous. and then it twisted into being a tradition and a taboo, most probably.
reem


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## jallan (Jan 22, 2003)

I don't see using horses as a taboo, simply less practical for most Dwarves, since there were the more suitable smaller ponies, more useful in Dwarf mines and dwellings than large horses would be, and requiring less food

Gimli is reasonably bothered by horses in much the same way that Sam is bothered by boats: he's not used to them and quite reasonably timid about things that can be quite dangerous if don't know how to manage them.

I would also imagine that Dwarf ponies would on the whole be rather placid beasts, though a Dwarf cavalry of ponies would be an interesting concept.


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## Tar-Elenion (Jan 23, 2003)

In endnote 29 to the essay 'Dwarves and Men' in PoME it is written:
"No Dwarf would ever mount a horse willingly, nor did any ever harbour animals, not even dogs."


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tar-Elenion _
> *
> "No Dwarf would ever mount a horse willingly, nor did any ever harbour animals, not even dogs." *



Why were they so unwilling to ride a horse? I think the answer to this lies in the roots of their creation. Aulë the great smith created them, and because he wrought in secret his children (=the Dwarves) would have little understanding for living things, which were created by his spouse Yavanna. They gave their love to mountains, and rock, and gems of the earth...these are all "elements" of their creator. With living things they were awkward and I daresay that they didn't understand them well.


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## Lasgalen (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tar-Elenion _
> *In endnote 29 to the essay 'Dwarves and Men' in PoME it is written:
> "No Dwarf would ever mount a horse willingly, nor did any ever harbour animals, not even dogs." *



They apparently did not have the same problem with ponies. 
The Dwarves were riding willingly in The Hobbit.

-Lasgalen


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## jallan (Jan 26, 2003)

So there go the mine ponies.

Obviously the Dwarves must, when going on journeys, buy or lease ponies from Men, though one wonders how they would have to learn to ride them.

I wonder if the ponies from _The Hobbit_ had slipped Tolkien's mind when he wrote that.

Talking it as valid, it might be that the use of ponies by Thorin and Company was should be thought to be very unusual and almost unheard of, adopted only because of the extraordinarily long journey that they were undertaking.


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## Tar-Elenion (Jan 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jallan _
> I wonder if the ponies from _The Hobbit_ had slipped Tolkien's mind when he wrote that.



This would seem likely, or he just did not fully consider it. The Dwarves also did interact (if not 'harbour') with (some) birds willingly.


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## reem (Jan 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jallan _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



yes i think that's the case. because i've noticed manythings in the Hobbit that were portreyed differently or changed in the LOTR. and don't forget that Tolkien wrote the Hobbit first and wasn't even thinking of making LOTR until later. 
reem


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