# Did any Elves stay in ME after the 4th Age?



## Feanor (Mar 24, 2002)

I think most of them would've gone west, but ALL of them?


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## Dhôn-Buri-Dhôn (Mar 24, 2002)

Well, to pick a nit, no elves could go West _after_ the fourth age, because the fourth age is still going on.

However, I understand what you meant. I think it's possible that there were many elves in M-E during the first few centuries after the start of the fourth age. After all, Legolas didn't go until after Aragorn's death, more than a century after the end of LotR. Why would he be the only elf to stay on so long, or the last to leave?

However, in the appendix, after Aragorn died Arwen returned to Lorien for a time; Galadriel and Celeborn were both gone, and "the land was silent". This suggests that she was alone --- that all the other elves of Lorien had already departed as well.


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## Anarchist (Mar 24, 2002)

All the elves moved west. At least that's what I make from Silmarillion and the appendices of LOTR. At the end of Silmarillion, Elrond boards on the ship and moves west, and that's the end of the Eldar. Pretty sad isn't it?


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## ssgrif (Mar 25, 2002)

Apologies for my ignorance, but what is actually in the West? Is it an actual place or is it a metaphor?

Note: I've yet to read the Silmarillion and the other works from JRRT (still re-reading the LOTR - Maybe its in here, cant remember though)


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## DGoeij (Mar 25, 2002)

No, not a metaphor, there's an actual continent west to Middle Earth, home of the Valar (Gods) that live on Arda (Earth). But it was completely seperated from the rest of the world when Men of Numenor (encouraged by Sauron) tried to reach it. 
It takes someone with more knowledge in the works of porfessor Tolkien to give the full story, so I'll be reading along. The Sil is a great help, but I find it hard to remember all the details. A lot happended in three long Era's you know.


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## Niniel (Mar 25, 2002)

Before the men of Numenor tried to invade it, it was an actual island where you could take a boat and sail to. After that, it was 'set outside the confines of the world', which means that Men couldn't go there any more, they would sail westward, sail all around the earth and return where they startedm without finding it. But Elves could still go there, apparently they knew a way. 
I wonder though if ALL the Elves knew the way, or that they needed special Elves, like Círdan, to take them there? Legolas knew the way too, so I suppose they could find it without a guide.


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## Cian (Mar 25, 2002)

About the Ages, JRRT once wrote:



> "*I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A.. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh." JRRT 1958



Generally speaking, Tolkien imagined that some Elves were indeed reluctant to leave Middle-earth. In _Morgoths Ring_ he writes about some Elves who would eventually 'fade' ('fade' in body at some point, the _Lingerers_), and some who, even upon becoming 'houseless' spirits, yet refused the summons West.


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## Strider97 (Mar 25, 2002)

Galadriel mentioned at one point that the elves thaat remain in ME would fade and become wanderers. I do not have my books with me but I believe that it was in the Chapter The Mirror of Galadriel.

It was also never mentioned whether Elrond's sons ever travelled to the west. Celeborrn did visit in Rivendell with them after Galadriel left but Tolkien never mentioned them passing to the West. It is thought that they could not since they did not leave with their father.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 25, 2002)

What about the elves in mirkwood that helped build minas -tirith into a better place. I'd think that probably all the high elves left but not all the other elves.


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## Halandor (Mar 26, 2002)

not all the elves went into the West. By the time of the passing of Elessar, most of the Noldor had left, but there were still Sindar, Nandor, and Silvan Elves left in places like Northern Mirkwood, East Lorien, Lindon, and Ithilien(legolas)


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## Rangerdave (Mar 30, 2002)

*Viva Las Lorien*

At least two of the Eldar remained. And they are still here. They can now be found in Las Vegas under the Names of Sigfried and Roy.

Sorry, I could'nt resist
RD


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## Aldanil (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Viva Las Lorien*



> Sorry, I could'nt resist



Glad that you didn't; good one, Rangerdave! 

From the White Tree of Valinor to the white tigers of Vegas...


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## Mighty Sam (Apr 2, 2002)

*question here*

OK well i was thinking this isn't really the best place for this post but here goes anyways... where can i find out info on these topics and more like them: the stature of elves, the history of elves, the skill in battle of elves as compared to men and dwarves, and the greatest of elves in various catagories. ok thanx as always


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## Lantarion (Apr 3, 2002)

The number one reference is ofcourse the Silmarillion, a book by Tolkien telling about the world (both Middle-Earth and the West, called Valinor btw) from the creation of the universe to the end of the Third Age. But the actual in-depth storytelling ends around the Second Age, with the _Akallabêth_. Check it out, it has more lore and information than just about any other work by Tolkien.

Aanyway: I think Elves did stay in Middle-Earth, but as Cian pointed out they didn't stay forever, but apparently 'faded' into roaming spirits. Hey, that's pretty cool..  
Well, I've had the impression (or hope) that Elves did not leave Middle-Earth entirely, but a couple hundred remained and lived in coexistence, as before, with the growing number of Men. Perhaps they even lived in Gondor! (Probably not, but it's a good theory, I think)


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