# Amandil - Last hope of the faithful?



## Ancalagon (Aug 30, 2003)

> ’To meddle not in the war, and to watch,’ answered Amandil. ’Until I return I can say no more. But it is most like that you shall fly from the Land of the Star with no star to guide you; for that land is defiled. Then you shall lose all that you have loved, foretasting death in life, seeking a land of exile elsewhere. But east or west the Valar alone can say.’ *The Silmarillion*



Did Amandil lord of Andúnië, make it to Valinor?


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## Ithrynluin (Aug 30, 2003)

> _The Silmarillion; The Akallabeth_
> 'The days are dark, and there is no hope for Men, for the Faithful are few. Therefore I am minded to try that counsel which our forefather Eärendil took of old, to sail into the West, be there ban or no, and to speak to the Valar, even to Manwë himself, if may be, and beseech his aid ere all is lost.'





> Then Amandil said farewell to all his household, as one that is about to die. 'For,' said he, 'it may well prove that you will see me never again; and that I shall show you no such sign as Eärendil showed long ago. But hold you ever in readiness, for the end of the world that we have known is now at hand.'





> It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastward, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate. Men could not a second time be saved by any such embassy, and for the treason of Númenor there was no easy absolving.





> But whether or no it were that Amandil came indeed to Valinor and Manwë hearkened to his prayer, by grace of the Valar Elendil and his sons and their people were spared from the ruin of that day.



We can never know what happened to Amandil. I hope the rules of the Ban upon Men not being allowed to the West, were not so rigid that Amandil's ship was drowned as soon as Numenor was out of sight. It would be rather unfair to him, since he was a good man and never did any evil.


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## Manveru (Aug 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *We can never know what happened to Amandil. I hope the rules of the Ban upon Men not being allowed to the West, were not so rigid that Amandil's ship was drowned as soon as Numenor was out of sight. It would be rather unfair to him, since he was a good man and never did any evil. *


A Ban is a Ban... it appeals to all Men (whether they're good or evil). So I guess Amandil's ship was definitely drowned in the end ("as soon as Numenor was out of sight"). Even the Elven (the Exiles') ships, earlier in the ME history, couldn't find way to the Blessed Realm... The only 'exception' was Earendil, who found Valinor (for well known reason) at the end of his long journey. Amandil hadn't got a gift of such kind... 


> It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastward, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate. *Men could not a second time be saved by any such embassy*, and for the treason of Númenor there was no easy absolving.


I think that this quote provided by ithrynluin is essential in this case (emphasis added)

Also I guess Amandil was aware of his death and didn't fully believe in success of his journey (also stated in one of the quotes in ithrynluin's post).


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## Ithrynluin (Aug 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Manveru _
> *A Ban is a Ban... it appeals to all Men (whether they're good or evil). So I guess Amandil's ship was definitely drowned in the end ("as soon as Numenor was out of sight"). Even the Elven (the Exiles') ships, earlier in the ME history, couldn't find way to the Blessed Realm... The only 'exception' was Earendil, who found Valinor (for well known reason) at the end of his long journey. Amandil hadn't got a gift of such kind...
> 
> *



If a Ban is a Ban...then _noone_ should have been allowed to break it. But there are always exceptions - Eärendil, Tuor, Gimli, the Hobbits. Amandil's mission might not have been of the same 'epic' proportions as Eärendil's plea to deliver Men and Elves from the shadow of Morgoth, but it certainly was a crucial assignment and a great plight of the race of Men. So why reject Amandil from the get-go?

I also have a problem with the sentence 'Men could not a second time be saved by any such embassy, and for the treason of Númenor there was no easy absolving.' 
Men did not cause the Evil that is Morgoth to come to life. They were just victims of Morgoth. Therefore I think that it was the duty of the Valar to absolve Men and Elves, and Amandil's plea should really have been 'the first time Men are saved from any such embassy.'


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## Manveru (Aug 30, 2003)

About a Ban:
I guess every rule has an exception... even in Tolkien's imaginary world

As for Amandil and his quest... I came across this:

From _AKALLABETH The Downfall of Numenor_


> But whether or no it were that Amandil came indeed to Valinor and Manwë hearkened to his prayer, by grace of the Valar Elendil and his sons and their people were spared from the ruin of that day. For Elendil had remained in Romenna, refusing the summons of the King when he set forth to war; and avoiding the soldiers of Sauron that came to seize him and drag him to the fires of the Temple, he went aboard his ship and stood off from the shore, waiting on the time. There he was protected by the land from the great draught of the sea that drew all towards the abyss, and afterwards he was sheltered from the first fury of the storm. But when the devouring wave rolled over the land and Númenor toppled to its fall, then he would have been overwhelmed and would have deemed it the lesser grief to perish, for no wrench of death could be more bitter than the loss and agony of that day; but the great wind took him, wilder than any wind that Men had known, roaring from the west, and it swept his ships far away; and it rent their sails and snapped their masts, hunting the unhappy men like straws upon the water.


Elendil didn't get any sign, but he and his sons and his people were FORTUNATELY saved ("but the great wind took him..."). This proves that some _higher power_ had a part in the escape of the Faithful from Numenor. But we don't know for sure whether it was Amandil's deed that brought about this _wind_... the Valar didn't wholy forget about them (they do know what was going on on the Land of Gift---I think)... and there's also Eru...

BTW: The drowning of Amandil's ship "as soon as Numenor was out of sight" seems vague to me... If it were true, then why didn't Ar-Pharazon's fleet drown? It wasn't an exception, that's for sure... I think it could be a good idea for a thred (unless it exists). 
EDIT: If anyone is interested in debating this, please go here.


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