# An "if" question



## Aragorn21 (May 28, 2003)

If Frodo failed and Sauron got the ring back could it be recaptured as in the first battle, or would he be more careful? He had alot more orcs so he would probably have won the battle and all would be over, right? So everything really depended on the ring being destroyed. (Sorta answered my own question, lol. Give me your thoughts though).


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## Niniel (May 29, 2003)

yes, if Sauron had the Ring back he would have been even more powerful than before he made it, so everything depended on the destruction of the Ring.


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## YayGollum (May 29, 2003)

Sure, why not? If it wasn't for Gollum the Hero, everyone would have died and Sauron would win. Yay Gollum, right?


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## Celebthôl (May 29, 2003)

Hey he was only a hero by chance  he never tryed to be a hero 

Well i dont think that Sauron would make the same mistake twice, i doubt he would come forth again like he did against Elendil and Gil-Galad, that would be folly, and why would he need to, hie armys were much larger now than in the Last Alliance, and the armys of good were much smaller without the help of the Elves with Noldorian blood...


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## BlackCaptain (May 29, 2003)

Why in the world would he even need his Ring again? He already would have defeated the captains of the West without the Ring. What further need would it be?


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## Arvedui (May 29, 2003)

IMO, he would need the Ring primarily to be sure that noone else claimed it.
Without the Ring, he still had imense power, a huge army and the "opposing forces" were nowhere near the strength of the Last Alliance.

Could it be recaptured? I don't think so.
I'm sure he would make sure that such a thing would never happen again.
Wouldn't you?


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## BlackCaptain (May 29, 2003)

If I were sauron i'd just dig a huge hole somewhere and throw it down there. Then if he ever wanted it he could have me go down in my wraith form and get it


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## Aragorn21 (May 29, 2003)

By the way, when could Sauron change back to physical form?


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## YayGollum (May 30, 2003)

Celebthol person ---> It doesn't really matter what kind of hero he was. The fact that he was the most unlikely accidental hero of all time makes him even more fun than usual.

Anyways, I would think that when Sauron got his One Ring back, he'd be able to run around physically again. He'd be a whole person again. Yay! But then, wasn't he around physically anways? That's what I thought when poor Smeagol was talking about being tortured and how Sauron didn't especially need ten fingers.


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## FrankSinatra (Jun 3, 2003)

*Well*

The hosts of the like in the last alliance would never be seen again, and therefore, compared to his enemies this time round, Sauron would be more powerful.


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## YayGollum (Jun 3, 2003)

Sure. Compared to his enemies, he would definitely be more powerful. What if we were to talk about how he would compare to just himself? As in, one Sauron from one age and another from a different age?


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## Theoden_king (Jun 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *Hey he was only a hero by chance  he never tryed to be a hero
> *



The way I see it is if Gollum had got the ring back he wouldn't have given it to Sauron, he would have kept it and himself hidden away from Mordor so either way Gollum would have stopped Sauron from getting the ring.


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## Celebthôl (Jun 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Theoden_king _
> *The way I see it is if Gollum had got the ring back he wouldn't have given it to Sauron, he would have kept it and himself hidden away from Mordor so either way Gollum would have stopped Sauron from getting the ring. *



But for how long? he would have to escape Mordor first then he would be hunted ceaslessly by the Nazgul, and the world of Men would fall, he would not get far i can assure you...


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## Theoden_king (Jun 3, 2003)

Going back to "if". If Gollum had got the ring before they entered Mordor, suppose His plan to let Shelob kill the Hobbits succeed and he got the ring then? 

He escaped from Mordor once, why couldn't he do it again?


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## Celebthôl (Jun 3, 2003)

Because Sauron would see him whenever he put the ring on, and he would still be tracked down


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## Theoden_king (Jun 3, 2003)

Gollum hardly ever put the ring on though, only when he wanted to eat something other than fish he would wear it to catch goblins. 
He is very cunning and could easily lose trackers from Mordor, think about how long it took Aragorn and Gandalf to track him down.


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## Celebthôl (Jun 3, 2003)

But when he was seen Sauron would send people to catch him, he was caught before, and probibily would be again...


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## Theoden_king (Jun 3, 2003)

Why would he probably be caught again? This time he would be expecting Sauron to send people after him. After reading about his tracking abilities I think he could escape from the armies of Mordor based on his abilities to avoid anyone catching him throughout Saurons realms not to mention his disappearance for 500 or so years.

Gollum made it to Mt. Doom without being caught and without anyone to help him unlike Frodo and Sam, Sauron was too busy with Aragorn and the army at his front gate to notice Gollum slip away. I think the timing was perfect for Golum to take back the ring and go back into hiding.


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## Celebthôl (Jun 3, 2003)

LOL, he would get caught, the ring would cause him to fade and soon enough he would become a wraith and hand the ring to Sauron anyway....


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## Theoden_king (Jun 3, 2003)

The ring didn't cause him to fade for over 500 years. Thats one of the reasons I like Gollum he is resistant to the evil of the ring. It is to precious for him to just hand it over to Sauron


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## Celebthôl (Jun 3, 2003)

But there was none of Smeagol left, in time he would have faded like the rest...


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## Theoden_king (Jun 3, 2003)

What, none of Smeagol left? Where does it say this? I don't remember that, do you have a quote because I don't have my books here and I can't remember it saying that


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## Celebthôl (Jun 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Theoden_king _
> *What, none of Smeagol left? Where does it say this? I don't remember that, do you have a quote because I don't have my books here and I can't remember it saying that *



AHHHHH i hate it when you guys do this, "Wheres the quote" Grrr, i dont have the quote  .
Did you see anything good left in Gollum?! I sure as...heck didnt!


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## YayGollum (Jun 3, 2003)

The most recent bit of Smeagolness I saw in that book was when he walked up to the superly boring Frodo at Mount Doom and asked him for his security blanket back. Anyways, aren't we a little off topic? Or have we changed things by now?


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## Aragorn21 (Jun 4, 2003)

I think there was Smeagol left in him. When he had the little debates with Gollum, Smeagol was talking. And Smeagol even won a debat. After that I think he acted more like Smeagol until "master betrayed him".


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## Theoden_king (Jun 4, 2003)

But there was some Smeagol left in him even after that.



> _Originally posted by YayGollum_
> *aren't we a little off topic? Or have we changed things by now?
> *



I think we are still on "if something happened" but we might be on something totally different now, I'm not sure.


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## YayGollum (Jun 5, 2003)

Oh. You're going with that part of the subject. oh well. I already have a thread all about how LOTR would have been so much better without the evil sam. Not much else to say.


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