# Was Celebrimbor "Dispossessed"?



## ZehnWaters (Aug 23, 2022)

The Prophecy of the North states that those who follow Fëanor and his sons would fall under the "curse". But we know Celebrimbor abandoned his family when they were kicked out of Nargothrond. Does this mean he was freed from their curse? It doesn't seem like he made the Oath like his father and uncles so he wouldn't be inescapably bound as they were. It also seems like he was quite young when they left Valinor and may not have participated in the Kinslaying (or, if he did, only at the behest of his elders).

HIS sin seems to have been when he participated in the creation of the Rings of Power and he was very much punished for it. But that all seems to be events that are outside of the Prophecy of the North.

What are your thoughts? Did Celebrimbor escape the "curse" by abandoning his paternal family?


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## ZehnWaters (Aug 26, 2022)

Bump


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Aug 26, 2022)

I remember that the Doom of Mandos was not lifted till the end of the First Age, after the War of Wrath. Thus, it's hard to say...would it have remained upon him? Yet the original words of the Prophecy were:

_"The Dispossessed shall they be *for ever*_."

Thus, I suppose one could say that it was still upon him. Let us hope he enjoys a new life in Valinor after he has left the Halls of Mandos.


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## ZehnWaters (Aug 27, 2022)

Vilisse said:


> I remember that the Doom of Mandos was not lifted till the end of the First Age, after the War of Wrath. Thus, it's hard to say...would it have remained upon him? Yet the original words of the Prophecy were:
> 
> _"The Dispossessed shall they be *for ever*_."
> 
> Thus, I suppose one could say that it was still upon him. Let us hope he enjoys a new life in Valinor after he has left the Halls of Mandos.


Ah, yes but the curse was on any who followed him. If anyone STOPPED following them...


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 17, 2022)

I suppose he was "cursed" and "dispossessed" to the same extent Galadriel was; they were of the same generation and had about the same degree of involvement/innocence when it came to the actions of their Noldorin kin in the First Age. Galadriel's long life in Middle-earth turned out well for her, and she was very highly regarded by all races, and greatly blessed for someone who's supposed to be included in the Doom. Clearly she was forgiven!

The bigger question in my mind regarding Celebrimbor is this: given that he was Feanor's grandson, as well as the son of Curufin, one of the more violent of the 7 Sons (and Feanor's favorite AND the one supposedly most like him), why did the Elves raise him up so high in their ranks? Celebrimbor was made Lord of Eregion and leader of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, was given the resources he needed to create objects of power, including the Dwarves' precious metals. Given the utter havoc wrought by the males of his family, was no one really squeamish about enabling his Feanorian potential and risk repeating history? And in a way, there WAS a bit of recurrence when he created the Rings, although the effects weren't as disastrous as the Silmarils (thank Eru). Just something I ponder about!


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 18, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I suppose he was "cursed" and "dispossessed" to the same extent Galadriel was; they were of the same generation and had about the same degree of involvement/innocence when it came to the actions of their Noldorin kin in the First Age. Galadriel's long life in Middle-earth turned out well for her, and she was very highly regarded by all races, and greatly blessed for someone who's supposed to be included in the Doom. Clearly she was forgiven!
> 
> The bigger question in my mind regarding Celebrimbor is this: given that he was Feanor's grandson, as well as the son of Curufin, one of the more violent of the 7 Sons (and Feanor's favorite AND the one supposedly most like him), why did the Elves raise him up so high in their ranks? Celebrimbor was made Lord of Eregion and leader of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, was given the resources he needed to create objects of power, including the Dwarves' precious metals. Given the utter havoc wrought by the males of his family, was no one really squeamish about enabling his Feanorian potential and risk repeating history? And in a way, there WAS a bit of recurrence when he created the Rings, although the effects weren't as disastrous as the Silmarils (thank Eru). Just something I ponder about!


I'd imagine it was his actions of denouncing and forsaking his own father and uncle.


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 18, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> I'd imagine it was his actions of denouncing and forsaking his own father and uncle.


That's true, he did make a show of distancing himself from his relatives. But a more thorough forsaking could perhaps have included NOT going into the same profession as his cursed grandfather and engaging in similar activities, i.e. crafting magical powered objects. Instead his kinsmen put an entire guild of master craftsmen under his leadership and gave him access to the finest materials in the land. Those decisions just seem kinda, "huh?".


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 18, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> That's true, he did make a show of distancing himself from his relatives. But a more thorough forsaking could perhaps have included NOT going into the same profession as his cursed grandfather and engaging in similar activities, i.e. crafting magical powered objects. Instead his kinsmen put an entire guild of master craftsmen under his leadership and gave him access to the finest materials in the land. Those decisions just seem kinda, "huh?".


I don't think anyone was anticipating Rings of Power. No prior object was inherently cursed. The Silmarils were blessed, it was only Fëanor's Oath that cursed him.


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Oct 18, 2022)

I mean, imagine the Elvish facepalming when that discussion happened after Sauron started wreaking havoc with the rings.

"Who was the maker of these weapons of mass destruction??"

"Um. Curufin's boy." (Aka grandson of the OG maker of the Strife-Causing-Jewelry)

Insert Boromir facepalm gif.

I know Elves have long lives but surely their memories can't be that short.

To be clear, I love Celebrimbor and the stories he's involved in. The way they seemed unable to foresee how history might repeat itself just amuses me.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 18, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I mean, imagine the Elvish facepalming when that discussion happened after Sauron started wreaking havoc with the rings.
> 
> "Who was the maker of these weapons of mass destruction??"
> 
> ...


It must have been one of those "How did we not see this coming?" moments.


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