# Orcs have problems



## Celeborn (Mar 10, 2002)

Orcs are so stupid. they hate us yet they are "copies" of us. We have the magical advantage and we are better archers. they cant even get a tan. We whipped there asses in the battles of the ring and the five armies. so who should be hated?


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## curious_nomad (Mar 10, 2002)

You said it yourself. Orcs are stupid. Wouldn't the stupid of orcs explain their actions?


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 10, 2002)

Welcome Celeborn!! Not all orcs are bad, though I can't for the life of me come up with an example, just like not all evles are perfect. You have to try to look at their leaders they follow. Most people are followers or leaders. So if they have a leader that is evil EX Saroman, they do what they are told. That is that. They are simply misunderstood I think, But I don't think that they are even 25% good. I mean do you ever see an orc covered in flowers???????? I think not. They are simply an ary race that do what they are told.


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## Aroghel (Mar 11, 2002)

I personally dislike Orcs and Goblins because they hate almost every one. (well, not really) but they hate Elves just because of one or two Elves. Its kinda like me not liking Pizza because once there was a hair in it . So thats all I have to say for now. . .


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 11, 2002)

Orcs are a copied versions of the best there is.


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## Chymaera (Mar 11, 2002)

If you read the conversations that the Orcs have with each other in TTT and ROTK they don't sound all that different from some people.

All the want to do is gossip and a little raid and pillage to get them thuoght the day.


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Mar 11, 2002)

HOW DARE YOU TALK ABOUT THE HORDES LIKE THAT! I'VE SAID IT BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, ELVES ARE NOTHING BUT CREATURES WHO ARE ONLY CONCERNED WITH THEMSELVES. EGOISTIC, SELF-CENTERED, ARROGANT, IGNORANT... DO I NEED TO GO ON?


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## ReadWryt (Mar 11, 2002)

Oh great, it's a sociological Nurture/Nature discussion about the condition of the Orcs in Middle-earth.... Bahahaha!


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## Celeborn (Mar 11, 2002)

OK gnashar. try and say we are egotistical. at least we dont murder trees and leave them there to die. The ents did not like you to do that and neither do we. look what they did to you and Isengard. The horde are a bunch of weaklings needing a stone troll and a balrog to defeat one of us, a dwarf, a maia, two men, and four hobbits. Thats pretty pathetic. And the downside is no one was killed by the so called "horde". We aren't egotists or high on ourselves. Me, Beleg, and Legolas are just damn good archers.


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## Celeborn (Mar 11, 2002)

This is of us whipping your ass gnashar.


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## Ordain (Mar 11, 2002)

***It's the "Find What's Wrong With That Legolas Picture!" Game!***

A little silly, though important for someone who likes to see realism in films:
The string of the bow is underneath his sleeve... How the heck will he shoot that arrow?


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 11, 2002)

answer: He wont. It will go FLOP and then Legolas will be dismayed. It is a nice idea though.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 12, 2002)

Pity there aren't any orcs left in M.e.


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Mar 12, 2002)

Silly people... I cant believe you actually said Celeborn that no one gets killed by the hordes? What are you on about? Throughout the Silmarillion there is constant death because of the orc invasions! I am not even mentioning the War of the Ring!


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## Lantarion (Mar 12, 2002)

That's right, Ordain! How perceptive . The arrow would still fly, though, but not as far as it would. And how the hell is he holding that arrow?! You're supposed to use your index- and middle fingers (and usually your nameless finger too), one above and 2 (or 3) above the nock of the arrow! What a dumbass.


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## chrysophalax (Mar 12, 2002)

In my experience, while not very tasty (being a bit tough)they are
much more interesting, they will at least try to put up a fight before
they get eaten. whereas Elves go all noble and end up giving me the
inevitable case of heart-burn.


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 12, 2002)

I'm sory. I guess that that just leaves the men and dwarve and beasts of burden. suckssssssssss.


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## Ordain (Mar 13, 2002)

Heh, good point Ponti! He's holding it like some pencil  

They should of taught that pretty boy some real skills except for putting on eyeliner


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## Anarchist (Mar 13, 2002)

Personally I don't like orcs. But you can't say all orcs are stupid and pathetic. Yes they are evil but they also are very strong and can take a lot without even feeling fear. Think about it. How many elves would have the guts to roam in the place where Shelob roamed? Maybe they aren't as clever as other races but they are not stupid. They can follow battle plans very well and handle war machines. They are indeed merciless and barbaric but some people like those characteristics. And finally you can't talk about elves saying that all of them are kind and brave. Think of Feanor and his sons. They where rather evil and backstabbing and very selfish. I believe most elves are self centered and believe that they are the best that there is but they aren't the best at all. They are just very good in archering, very beautiful and kind and very good in arts. They are brave but not as brave and fearless as orcs. And think that I don't like orcs


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 13, 2002)

That is not saying much for the elven race now is it????? I think that you bring up some good points though. They are about what you say they are. But they are also the oldest race on Middle-Earth. Orcs and Elves are in a way brothers. So I think that if you can get over looks, which I hope you can, They are the same. they have the same ambition in their hearts, same will to be perfect. Same things in feelings, although they do differ their emotions, EX vengense is a big thing in orcs lives.


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## Ordain (Mar 14, 2002)

You can't say all Orcs are stupid and pathetic, correct, but you can't say they aren't stupid and pathetic either. 

See, Tolkien didn't refer to them as much as he did to the Elves or any other race. In fact, discussions are held every now and then whether they are indeed corrupt Elves or corrupt Men. This shows the lack of information about the Orcs.

We have no evidence about great Orcs "deeds". All we have are endless passages about Orcs following orders; Orcs obeying their master. Now, the question is: Can we assume Orcs are not capable of strategic planning?

One could claim the Orc platoon leaders were in some way capable of strategy, but I believe they were improvising on a given battle plan. One could also claim Orcs weren't always "loyal" (as loyal as an Orc can get) to their masters because of the Shagrat/Gorbag incident where they debated whether to take the items off Frodo for themselves or to leave them for their master.

Anyway, just some food for thought.


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 14, 2002)

You hear the sound of munching....
Welcome!!
You have some good points that we should consider...  
The argument you refered to had slipped out ofy memory.

I guess I don't rally know how I feel about ORC or ELVES.


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## Elbereth (Mar 18, 2002)

Orcs are like corrupted little children...who are misraised and misunderstood.

And therefore they lash out on everyone, even their own kind. However, like most people they need to feel like a part of a group...and Sauron provides them this sense of community. 

You could easily compare the orcs bands to gang members or even the mob. They simply do what is expected of them. And although they fight with each other...they are only watching out for their own skin. But the doesn't make them stupid...it just makes them morally weak.


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## Anarchist (Mar 18, 2002)

Well I am glad people here are open minded. I believ their hatred to whatever is good and kind maybe exists because elves dislike them. They look at their uglyness and cannot believe that they are related. Now how can the orcs be stupid when they come from elves? Tolkien never mentioned how Morgoth made orcs out of elves. How on ME  he could transform some of the prettiest creatures into ugly and barbaric fighters. Finally, I believe that most of the times, orcs are slaves to their master but also they look for their own good.


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