# Gorlim The Unhappy



## Ancalagon (Sep 8, 2002)

Was Gorlim The Unhappy somehow caught up in The Curse of Mandos or was he simply fated to be the unluckiest of Men?


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## Ponte (Sep 8, 2002)

I think that he simply was the unluckiest of men.


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## Elfarmari (Sep 8, 2002)

IMHO, Morgoth was largely responsible for his unhappy fate. Morgoth's servants murdered Gorlim's wife, allowing Morgoth to take advantage of his grief and unfounded hope.


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## Turgon (Sep 8, 2002)

Gorlim was an unlucky fellow, sure, but no more than a whole host of other First Age men. Túrin, Brandir and Húrin, to name but three. I dare say it is a common enough story in Beleriand. Interestingly enough though all the misfortunes of these tragic figures *can* be traced back to the Curse of the Noldor. Simply put, if you stand with the Noldor you will suffer their fate... cause and effect. The stories of Gorlim, Túrin and the rest are all aftershocks of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Something that looms large in Mandos' Prophecy...



> 'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also.'


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## Confusticated (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Turgon _
> *Gorlim was an unlucky fellow, sure, but no more than a whole host of other First Age men. Túrin, Brandir and Húrin, to name but three. I dare say it is a common enough story in Beleriand. Interestingly enough though all the misfortunes of these tragic figures can be traced back to the Curse of the Noldor. Simply put, if you stand with the Noldor you will suffer their fate... cause and effect. The stories of Gorlim, Túrin and the rest are all aftershocks of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Something that looms large in Mandos' Prophecy... *


Those were my thoughts too.
This sort of messed up things had to have been going on all over the place. Servants ranking lower than Sauron, I imagine, were doing this sort of thing all the time.
We hear about Gorlim because:
1) His connection with Barahir
2) Sauron himself did this and not a lesser servant or Morgoth, though it was probably just the connection with Barahir that made Gorlim important enough for one of the big guys to go after.

Sometimes I like to think that when Sauron discovered Frodo at the cracks of doom, that he thought of Gorlim.


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## Ancalagon (Nov 30, 2002)

> Sometimes I like to think that when Sauron discovered Frodo at the cracks of doom, that he thought of Gorlim.



WHat an interesting thought, what exactly did go through Saurons mind as his doom hung on the precipice? Did his life pass before his eyes, haunted by the memory of those he tormented over his long years?


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## Confusticated (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ancalagon _
> *WHat an interesting thought, what exactly did go through Saurons mind as his doom hung on the precipice? Did his life pass before his eyes, haunted by the memory of those he tormented over his long years? *


I think it was a combination of fear that he would be punished, knowing that a part of himself would be destroyed utterly, and the recollection of his past.
I imagine that many cruel things that he did to people came back to him in that moment (I always think of Gorlim and Finrod in specific). I imagine that he heard Gorlim laugh at him, just as he once laughed and mocked Gorlim, and that he hears Finrod's song.
I imagine too that he was very affraid of what Melkor might do to him if he were to meet up with him. 
I think he was too affraid to think cruel thoughts or even feel hatred for the people who had defeated him. Sauron was too busy being tortured by his past and future he'd pay for it.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ancalagon _
> *WHat an interesting thought, what exactly did go through Saurons mind as his doom hung on the precipice? Did his life pass before his eyes, haunted by the memory of those he tormented over his long years? *



I hope all the people he tormented came before his eyes in that moment, especially Barahir and Finrod.



> _Originally posted by Nóm_
> I imagine too that he was very affraid of what Melkor might do to him if he were to meet up with him.



What Melkor might do to him? He was following Melkor's will all these years and doing his bidding (telling the Númenoreans to worship Melkor instead of Eru, for example...).


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## Confusticated (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *I hope all the people he tormented came before his eyes in that moment, especially Barahir and Finrod.
> 
> 
> ...



Melkor was cruel all the way through, I'm sure he'd torture a much weaker Sauron. He was evil, do you think he treated his servants good before? I don't think he went around beating Sauron, but surely the sadistic failure would need someone to torment in the void (assuming Sauron went into the void). Surely he'd have a lot of anger saved up just waiting to take it out of someone weaker(and useless). That is, unless you think Melkor is capable of feeling and expressing gratitude, and that he would have no reason to be upset at Sauron for being defeated.
In fact, this reminds me of the way that Gandalf said that Saruman would treat Grima after the ruin of Isengard. Some situation, the bad guy's top servant is locked up with him after they're been conquered.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 30, 2002)

Yes, Sauron was banished to the Void:



> In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.


From the Valaquenta

Indeed. I agree that Melkor probably isn't the role-model of forgiveness and pity(far from it!) but the question that arises in my mind is: How can Morgoth torment Sauron if they are both bodyless?? I suspect that is not possible...but they would probably gnaw each other with words or thoughts,much like Grima & Saruman did.


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## Confusticated (Dec 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *Yes, Sauron was banished to the Void:
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe there is a chance (not that it's relevant here) that Melkor did have a body in the void. I think it's in the chapter "The darkening of Valinor" where it tells of Melkor taking on his old dark lord form, and it also says that he stayed in that form forever after.
It does seem strange to imagine a body in a void though. 

But yea, even if they are both unclad I figure that Melkor would be cruel to Sauron.


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