# Maia vs Maiar



## DRavisher (Apr 27, 2002)

*Maia*

Just a quick question. What's the difference between Maia and Maiar?


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## Lantarion (Apr 27, 2002)

Welcome, DRavisher! 
The term _Maia_ is the singular form, and _Maiar_ is the plural form (as I *CONTINUALLY* tell people around here!). 
To give an example:
Gandalf is a *Maia*.
The Istari are *Maiar*.

It is all about the Quenya grammar system. There are two alternatives for plural terms and words: -r, and -i. As can obviously be seen, the -r suffix is used after vowels and the -i suffix is used after consonants. [eg._Ainur_, _Valar_; _Quendi_, _Avari_]


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## DRavisher (Apr 27, 2002)

Thanks. I was wondering if that was the answer


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## Tao (Apr 27, 2002)

Well put, Pontifex.


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## Oren (May 26, 2002)

One has an r at the end and the other doesn't! (rotflmao) (lol)


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## 7doubles (May 27, 2002)

how abought "melko and melkor"?..anyone?
i know he is valar but i did not feal the need to start a new thread. thank you.
sory mith


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## Elu Thingol (May 27, 2002)

Melco????????? Never heard of it


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## Rangerdave (May 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 7doubles _
> *how abought "melko and melkor"?..anyone?
> i know he is valar but i did not feal the need to start a new thread. thank you.
> sory mith *



Melko seemed to grow an R as the creation of the story evolved. I would'nt brag about it if I were him however, the same thing happened to the Noldo and look what happened to them.

RD


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## Cian (May 28, 2002)

Tolkien did not necessarilly scrap _Melko_ for _Melkor_ in the end -- he did decide on "Melkor" and used it when returning to Silmarillion texts after The Lord Of The Rings was completed -- however there is a glossary together with the _Athrabeth_ papers in which Tolkien writes: "_Melkor_ (also _Melko_)", and in which _Melko_ is said to mean "Mighty One", given as an alternate -- and in which _Melkor_ means "*Mighty-rising, *uprising of power'. 



> ** "The first is *mbelek'-oore(e) > Melkoor(e) > Melkor, to be explained as "Melca Oore", 'mighty rising'. The second is *mbelek'-ooro > Melkoor > Melkor, to be explained as "Melcenen Ooro", 'riser in might'" David Salo




some 'early' whatnot
*****
The early name Melko given in the _Qenya Lexicon_ (ie not Quenya, but _Qenya_) hasn't much to offer, but the _Gnomish Lexicon_ offers _Belcha_ "Lord of utter heat and cold, or violence and evil', and cites Qenya _Melko._ The Book Of Lost Tales references _Belca_ > _Belcha_ with a note referring to Qenya _velka_ 'flame'.
*****

Hmmm.


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## 7doubles (May 28, 2002)

i thought the noldorin vertion is "morgoth" but i do remember "melca" from some text.


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## Cian (May 28, 2002)

Quendi is correct as a plural; here -i displaces -e, since the singular is _Quendë_ but the plural is not "Quender"


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## Cian (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 7doubles _ i thought the noldorin vertion is "morgoth" but i do remember "melca" from some text.



If you are referring to my mention of Gnomish _Belcha,_ for clarity, I did not say or mean to imply that it displaced _Morgoth_  in the Mythology.

Quenya _melca_ is likely the adjective "mighty" (the "a" is elided in composition in Melca+óre). Note David Salo's example when not elided: _*Melcaner_ "Mighty man" as opposed to _*Melcener_ "Man of might".


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## 7doubles (May 28, 2002)

is there an instance of (melc"o") melco? or was that my disslecsic mistake.


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## Lantarion (May 28, 2002)

(Dyslexic)
I don't think there is any mention of a "Melko" in the Sil or LotR, if at all. But as Cian said, _melca_ apparently means "mighty". Perhaps Melko is a possible nominal alteration.


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## Gil-Galad (May 28, 2002)

Pontifex,you're always right!Again there's nothing more to say.


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## Khamul (Jun 1, 2002)

In the Lost Tales, Melko is used. But, as RD mentioned, that was one of the first versions written by Tolkien, and later changed as previously mentioned as well.


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## Cian (Jun 3, 2002)

"Changed" in a sense, yes (and not to be repetitive but) the glossary together with the Athrabeth papers, entry reads:



> "Melkor (also Melko)"...



... in which _Melko_ is said to mean "Mighty One", given as an alternate to _Melkor_ meaning "Mighty-rising, uprising of power'.

So it looks like, according to this, Tolkien was thinking of keeping both forms.


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