# Why doesn't Souron just make a new ring?



## Turin (Feb 9, 2003)

My brother was wondering why souron doesn't make a new ring. I want to be able to answer him.


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## Anamatar IV (Feb 9, 2003)

He didn't have enough power. Much of his power was in the One Ring.


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## Gothmog (Feb 9, 2003)

> Now the Elves made many rings; but secretly Sauron made One Ring to rule all the others, and their power was bound up with it, to be subject wholly to it and to last only so long as it too should last. *And much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring; for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency*; and suaron forged it into the Mountain of Fire in the Land of Shadow.


 The Silmarillion: of The Rings of Power and the Third Age

So it is as Anamatar IV says, Sauron did not have enough Will or Power left to make another Ring.


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## Gil-Galad (Feb 9, 2003)

This question is similar to that:"Why doesn't Feanor just make new Silmarils?"It is simple.Great things can never be made again. For example do you think da Vinci was able to make copies of his greatest pictures?No of course.


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## LordOfMoria (Feb 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *This question is similar to that:"Why doesn't Feanor just make new Silmarils?"It is simple.Great things can never be made again. For example do you think da Vinci was able to make copies of his greatest pictures?No of course. *



ehh i havent read the Silmarillion yet so what is a Silmaril and who is Feanor?


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by LordOfMoria _
> *ehh i havent read the Silmarillion yet so what is a Silmaril and who is Feanor? *



Read the Silmarillion and you'll learn. 

Or you can check the Encyclopedia of Arda or any other similar site for info.


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## LordOfMoria (Feb 9, 2003)

Or you or someone else could give me a brief explanation!!!


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## Anamatar IV (Feb 9, 2003)

A brief explanation...hmmm...is there really a brief way to explain it?

A silmaril is a coveted jewel by Melkor which contains the light of the two trees. Feanor was a Noldorin Elf, son of Finwe, who created the Silmarils (three of them) in Aman.

That is as brief as I can go. If we tried to explain all those other things we'd be here a while


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 9, 2003)

This isn't even on the topic, but here goes, I'll copy the info from the Encyclopedia of Arda for you, since I am too lazy to give my own description (and since you are obviously too lazy to check it out yourself ):

*Fëanor*:

Eldest son of Finwë, lord of the Noldor, and half-brother to Fingolfin and Finarfin, Fëanor was accounted the greatest of the Deep Elves. In Valinor, he captured the light of the Two Trees to make the three Silmarils. When Melkor stole these, and slew his father Finwë, he rebelled against the Valar and led the greater part of the Noldor into Middle-earth, swearing in the dreadful Oath of Fëanor that he would not rest until the Great Jewels were recovered.

On his return to Middle-earth, Fëanor immediately drove onward to Angband, though outnumbered greatly by Morgoth's Orcs and Balrogs. He was slain at last by Gothmog, the Lord of Balrogs, and such was the ferocity of his spirit that after his death, his body was consumed by flame. 


*Silmarils*:

The three great jewels made by Fëanor in Valinor, in which he locked the light of the Two Trees, Laurelin and Telperion, before their destruction. Melkor stole the jewels from Fëanor's stronghold at Formenos, slaying his father Finwë, and fled with them back to his fortress of Angband in the north of Middle-earth.

Fëanor swore an oath to recover the Silmarils, and many of the Noldor followed him into exile in pursuit of the jewels. So began their hopeless war against the forces of Morgoth, of which the Quenta Silmarillion (the 'Tale of the Silmarils') tells the story. During the First Age, one Silmaril alone was recovered from Morgoth's Iron Crown by Beren and Lúthien, and was borne by Eärendil when he sailed into the West to seek the aid of the Valar.

By virtue of the Silmaril, it is said, Eärendil reached Aman and was heard by the Valar, who sent a mighty force into Middle-earth. Morgoth was utterly defeated, and the Silmarils recovered. Maedhros and Maglor, the only two of Fëanor's seven sons to survive until that War of Wrath, stole the jewels from the camp of the Valar. Their evil deeds in pursuance of the jewels, however, drove them to madness; Maedhros cast himself into a fiery chasm with one of the Silmarils, and Maglor threw the other into the depths of the sea. So only one Silmaril remains visible in the World, bound to Eärendil's brow as he sails the heavens; the Morning and Evening Star.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 9, 2003)

When he made The One Ring he poured his power and his life into it, so that his existence was bound with the ring's existence.
That's what gave the ring it's power and semi-sentience.

He had too much of himself in the ring and it was impossible to separate the two which is why, a) the ring couldn't be destroyed any other way, and b) why he didn't have enough power to make a new ring.

It's kind of like a computer program that you can't shut off.
You divert say, nearly all the computer's power to run this program, but once it's running you can't stop it.
So the compuer can't run any other programs other than the one it's already running.

When the ring was destroyed it took Sauron with it.
Too much of him was vested in the ring.


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## Lantarion (Feb 10, 2003)

Good answers, all. 
Ithrynluin, great explanation (well copy-pasted ), but I think that if somebody really wants to know about something, eg. the Silmarils, they should read about it themselves.


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## Turin (Feb 10, 2003)

Thanks I thought something like that happened.


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## Moridin (Feb 11, 2003)

In the foreword Tolkien says that if he had added Lord of the Rings to the legendary story that Sauron would have been enslaved and Saruman would have made his own 'one ring'. 

Just in case you forgot


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## Ancalagon (Feb 11, 2003)

I don't see any reason why Sauron could not have channeled much of his remaining strength into fashioning another Ring. The 'greater' part of his power was not contained within the One Ring, just a 'great' part of it! If he is able to assume form after the destruction of Numenor, surely creating another Ring is not beyond the realms of possiblity. 

Now then, let's see if we can open this discussion up a little


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## gate7ole (Feb 11, 2003)

Ancalagon, you seem to have another answer in mind and you don’t share it with your fellow forum members. Shame on you  
I agree that Sauron might not have the power to create another Ring (except if he wore the One, which then would make the other Ring useless). But let’s assume that he had the power.
Why would he want to make another Ring? Didn’t the first one already cause him many problems, seeking it and fearing that it might be used by another powerful person? I don’t think that Sauron was at all pleased with the “services” of the Ring. It was eventually disastrous to him.
Furthermore, how would another Ring benefit him? As far as I know and have understood, the One was supposed to control the other Great Rings and those who wore them. It enhanced Sauron’s powers only by accumulating the powers of the other ring-bearers. That means, without other Rings, the One was pretty useless to Sauron. Actually it was not useless because it contained a part of Sauron’s spirit, but Sauron before the forging of the Ring and Sauron afterwards wearing the Ring, would be the same. So, why bother making another Ring, when there would be no benefits but only dangers?


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## Jesse (Feb 11, 2003)

Ok, what I'm curious about is why Sauron put all his power in the One Ring??? Is there a specific reason for this?


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 11, 2003)

To put it simply: he wanted to enhance his power and extend his domination over all living things.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 11, 2003)

And in order to enslave a world you need a tremendous amount of power.

He needed to be the ABSOLUTE MOST POWERFUL and a more powerful ring would give him that.


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## Mirabella (Feb 11, 2003)

Suppose Sauron had tried to forge a new Ring of Power. He doesn't have the first, so he doesn't have the "great part" of the strength he poured into it. Forging a second ring means giving up more of his own native strength and weakening himself further. It just makes more sense IMO for him to try and recover the original One Ring than to forge a new one.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 11, 2003)

Also: If Sauron could forge more than one of his Great Rings, he could have just forged several "One Rings" at the very beggining and enslave ME in a "blitzkrieg". This does sound absurd, but I'm going by Anc's statement that Sauron maybe could forge another great ring. I don't think he could ever repeat the forging of the One (and I more than suspect that Anc knows this too, but is only toying with us).


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 11, 2003)

So what I dont understand is how Sauron can amplify his power... by puting it into a ring. If he puts all of his power into a ring, how does that make him more powerful?


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## gate7ole (Feb 11, 2003)

> So what I dont understand is how Sauron can amplify his power... by puting it into a ring. If he puts all of his power into a ring, how does that make him more powerful?


As I understand it, the ring works in accordance with the other Great Rings. It accumulates the strength, power, knowledge of the bearers of those rings into the One Ring and thus Sauron can use this power for himself. That why I previously mentioned that the One without the other Great Rings is useless.


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 11, 2003)

ooooo... that makes alot of sense. Thankx!


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole _
> *As I understand it, the ring works in accordance with the other Great Rings. It accumulates the strength, power, knowledge of the bearers of those rings into the One Ring and thus Sauron can use this power for himself. That why I previously mentioned that the One without the other Great Rings is useless. *



I'm having difficulties understanding this. What if the other Great Rings were lost for example? Then Sauron's ring would be completely useless. The One Ring cannot function on this principle.
The act of forging itself, the knowledge and power that were put into it is what makes Sauron's ring superior and amplifies his powers. He cannot "use" the power of the other ring bearers, he can see into their hearts, see what their intentions are and use that information to defeat them.


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## olorin the maia (Feb 11, 2003)

The One Ring was unique, and its power was derived from the spirit of Sauron, who wished to have dominion over others. It was made exceedingly powerful to enable him to enslave the Keepers of the Three, which were also very powerful rings in their own right. He forfeited the ability to make another Ring because of the power he allowed to pass into making the One. A common thread occurs throughout Tolkien's writings on Middle-Earth: Morgoth, Feanor, Elbereth, the Valar, all are able to accomplish great things once, and only once. Sauron could not have conceived of making another Ring, any more than the Silmarils could have been duplicated by Feanor.


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## Ancalagon (Feb 12, 2003)

See, now there is another point worth investagation! Could Fëanor have fashioned another Silmaril if Melkor had not destroyed the great Trees?


> For Fëanor began to love the Silmarils with a greedy love, and grudged the sight of them to all save to his father and his seven sons; he seldom remembered now that the light within them was not his own.


 Already Fëanors own self-indulgence was at work, even prior to the destruction of the Trees, even then he coveted his own work. Following the origins of the Unrest of the Noldor, fueled by Melkor, and Fëanors drawing of his sword upon Fingolfin, he was humiliated by his banishment from Tirion.


> But Fëanor was not held guiltless, for he it was that had broken the peace of Valinor and drawn his sword upon his kinsman; and Mandos said to him: 'Thou speakest of thraldom. If thraldom it be, thou canst not escape it; for Manwë is King of Arda, and not of Aman only. And this deed was unlawful, whether in Aman or not in Aman. Therefore this doom is now made: for twelve years thou shall leave Tirion where this threat was uttered. In that time take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee.'


However, it is Melkors words to Fëanor at the gates of Formenos that touch him deepest, that the Valar want the Silmarils for themselves. This coupled with Fëanors own pride and selfishness led him to seek to remove or keep the Silmarils from any hand save his own.
Why then would he even desire to make the same again? When asked by the Valar to unlock the light of the Silmarils following the destruction of the Trees he responds;


> But Fëanor spoke then, and cried bitterly: 'For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman.'


In truth, does one really beleive that were the Trees untouched and his darkest thoughts not fed by the lies of Melkor, Fëanor could not have fashioned such jewels again? I am certain he could.

And for those who think I am playing Devil's Advocate in stirring up questions about Sauron's ability to recreate a Ring of Power similar to the One, I still fear this was a possibility, not least because his power was not diminished while the Ring was whole. One must also remember he has the combined power of those Rings of Power (although lesser) of the Dwarves and Men. Surely these Rings contained contributary potency that Sauron could draw strength from, considering he had a part in their creation. How much of his own fëa is present in each of these?


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## Turin (Feb 12, 2003)

Welcome to the forum Olorin.


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## Mirabella (Feb 12, 2003)

But what of this quote?



> This is the One Ring that he lost many ages ago to the great weakening of his power



Sauron was in fact "diminished" so long as he didn't have the One Ring in his possession. And Sauron only had three of the Seven rings...the rest had been consumed by dragons. Nor could he command their power without having the One Ring in his possession.



> If he recovers it, then he will command them all again, wherever they be, even the Three...



IMO, Sauron could have forged a Ring of Power, but there's no way it could have had the potency of the One Ring, so what would have been the point?

As for Feanor and the Simarils, had the Trees not been destroyed, maybe he could have been prevailed upon to make make other Simarils. But I can't help but believe enough of his spirit passed into the original Simarils so that any new ones would be only be lesser jewels.


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## gate7ole (Feb 12, 2003)

The subject of the uniqueness of the masterpieces (like the Trees, the white ships of the Teleri and the Silmarils), has been discussed in this previous thread . Although it soon diverges to other topics, I have the impression that everyone involved agreed that Fëanor (as well as Yavanna and the Teleri), could not duplicate his work, could make other Silmarils. Not because his fëa was consumed (like Sauron for example), but of psychological reasons mostly.
But in order to add the One Ring to this list of unique masterpieces, we must wonder if this was really a masterpiece. My opinion is negative. The One Ring might have some outstanding abilities, but this was only done by consuming a part of the fëa. Definitely a high price. The other “masterpieces” were such by their own accord, not using the spiritual power of the creator. That is what makes them exceptional. So the One was not a unique work. Sauron could make another Ring, spending another part of his fëa. The question (that I answered before) is why should he need to do so, after all the problems that the first Ring caused to him.


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## olorin the maia (Feb 12, 2003)

Thank you for the welcome, Turin. I am new at this!

It is difficult to believe that Sauron would not have made another Ring, had he had the power to do so. I imagine he had the desire, but not the strength of will. And how could there be two such Rings with the power requisite to dominate the other 19?
Perhaps, if Sauron had recovered the One Ring, a new one could have been forged, but as pointed out earlier, to what purpose? One seems to be enough! I do not equate the Ring of Power with the Two Trees, the Silmarils, or the White Ships of the Teleri, except to say that it was unique in its conception and purpose, even as those things are. And as for the making of a Second Ring, we have been warned: after a defeat, the Shadow at length grows and takes shape again. Morgoth has many servants.


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