# The East?



## EdBurke (Dec 24, 2009)

Does Tolkien ever write about the far east? What about that lake where all the elves are supposed to originate from? Are there elves or dwarves living in the east? If so, do they live secretly from the barbaric men around them? And do you think the two wizards not mentioned in LOTR found an abode in the east? Do you ever muse what a LOTR themed novel would be like if set in the east?

The east? The east? The east?

(Lots of questions about the east, I've typed it so much now that its lost all meaning.....)


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## YayGollum (Dec 24, 2009)

Not too many questions.

1. Not really.

2. Barely, and you already seem to know what he wrote about it.

3. There were two of the seven types of Dwarves out there, at least at some point, I think, but the only sickeningly popular elves to be found out there would be Avari and unimportant, I figure.

4. Nothing is written about living conditions as exact as you're typing about, but it is usual for these different races keep to themselves, mostly. Or were you asking if a bunch of Dwarves live anywhere near a bunch of elves, or if they despise each other and wouldn't want to be within eyeshot of their borders? Ah, either way, I don't know definites.

5. Yep.

6. Nope, although, dang, you just got me to. If it is The Lord Of The Rings-themed, then it would be like that The Lord Of The Rings story, wouldn't it? 

Anyways, Tolkien had plenty of other stories to worry about. He just left the east mysterious, because he hadn't gotten that far, in his writings. At least I hope that's why. Why would he just leave crazy mysteries like that? He would have told us what Tom Bombadil was, eventually, yes?


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## Astrance (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, I wouldn't want to know what's in the East. There's mysterious Cuiviénen, wide lands waiting only to be explored once people grow sick of the West... The East is unknown — as said Gimli in the LOTR, the East doesn't bring news. It has always this « dangerous » flavour, wild things roving in it, etc, but also hidden treasures... I love it that way and, even in imagination, never rode much further than Rhovanion.


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## Aernil (Jan 7, 2010)

This is pretty much everything about the East in the Silarillion as far as I remember:

"But a great part of the sons of Men, whether of the people of Uldor or others new-come out of the east, marched with the Enemy;"

_Silmarillion, Ch 24_

" in Lindon Gil-galad still maintained his power, and Sauron dared not as yet to pass the Mountains of Ered Luin nor to assail the Havens; and Gil-galad was aided by the Númenóreans. Elsewhere Sauron reigned, and those who would be free took refuge in the fastnesses of wood and mountain, and ever fear pursued them. In the east and south well nigh all Men were under his dominion, and they grew strong in those days and built many towns and walls of stone, and they were numerous and fierce in war and aimed with iron. To them Sauron was both king and god; and they feared him exceedingly, for he surrounded his abode with fire."

_Silmarillion, AKALLABÊTH_

You have to remember that Tolkien was a perfectionist when it came to the lore of Arda, and that he was a scholar. All lore of Arda that was "handed down" to us was done so by elves, men, dwarves and hobbits keeping records of tales and things. No lore could have been "handed down" from the East in a credible and historically accurate and detailed fashion that would conform with the "contraints" of his mythology.


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## Bucky (Jan 14, 2010)

Actually, four of the seven Fathers of the Dwarves Mansions (actually 'resting places') were in the East:

From The Peoples of Middle-earth (HoME Volume 12):

'In the Dwarvish traditions of the Third Age the names of the places where each of the Seven Ancestors had 'awakened' were remembered but only two of them were known to the Elves and the Men of the West: the most westerly, the awakening place of the ancestors of the Firebeards and the Broadbeams; and that of the ancestors of the Longbeards, the eldest in the making and awakening.The first had been in north of the Ered Lindon, the great eastern wall of Beleriand, of which the Blue Mountains of the Second Age were the remnant; the second had been Mount Gundabad, which was therefore revered by the Dwarves, and it's occupation by the Dwarves in the Third Age by the Orks of Sauron was one of the chief reasons for their hatred of the orks. The other two places were eastward, at distances as great or greater than that between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad; the arising of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and that of the Blacklocks and Stonefoots.Though these four points were far sundered, the Dwarves were in communication....'

Here we see that there were only four places that the original seven Dwarf fathers were laid in sleep to await their awakening - all in pairs except for Durin, the eldest, who was laid alone in Mount Gundabad at the top of the Misty Mountains.

The interesting thing in the above quote is that the two 'eastward' 'resting places' of the other four Fathers was 'equal or greater than the distance between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad'. This is quite a distance, hundreds of miles. Looking hundreds of miles to the east, I really don't see many mountain ranges for those other 'resting places' to be except a few mountains around the Sea of Rhun and the never marked on a map Red Mountains.

It is also interesting to note that Tolkien reported that some of each kindred, Elves aside, Dwarves included, fought on Saron's side in The Battle of Dagorlad/The Last Alliance. One can only assume that the Dwarves who fought on Sauron's side were those who were from the East and had been corrupted by Sauron's servants and influence, just as the wild Men had been.


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## lorkar (Apr 20, 2010)

well i can still something about the east, and it is not about dwarves, i have to say.

in the east is cuivienen, the place where the elves woke up, also is it hildorien, the place in which the men woke up, it is said that morgoth left some of his lesser vassals there in east to torment and enslave the men that remained there. it appears that the 3 main houses of the edain ( the people of beor, marach, and haladins) could get out of that terror, cuz of that they didnt wanted to talk about their dark past.

the blue istari, i think they were beaten by morgoth servants, and there in utumno there are a lot of orcs still, because that was their birth place, and east is not a safe place to go, because it is forgotten, and will be destroyed in the dagor dagorath.


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