# A happy ending?



## Heathertoes (Jul 1, 2004)

I always feel utterly depressed when I finish the LotR, especially if I include the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. Does everyone feel the same?


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## Deleted member 3778 (Jul 1, 2004)

It does have a rather depressing end (depending on how much you liked the story) but it's depressingly happy :] Everyone splits up and "goes away", but since that's what is best for all, you also feel relieved.


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## 33Peregrin (Jul 1, 2004)

The ending is very sad, so bittersweet. I remember the first time I ever finished LOTR. I love the ending, even though it is so sad, I thihk it is very fitting to the story.


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## Heathertoes (Jul 1, 2004)

It is fitting, but you're still left with the feeling that all the good things have gone away. If you conclude by reading the end of the Tale of the Years in appendix B then it's even worse.


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## 33Peregrin (Jul 1, 2004)

I know, it is terribly sad. It really does make me cry every time I read it. I am reading LOTR right now, and am nearing the end again. But still, no matter how sad it is, I wouldn't want it to be any other way.


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## King Aragorn (Jul 1, 2004)

I need to re-read LOTR, but when I finish the books, it's kind of bittersweet. I haven't even read the appendices, so I don't know how I feel about those...but I like how LOTR finishes...


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## Nerds.Inc (Jul 1, 2004)

33Peregrin, I agree, bittersweet is the word to describe the story's climax. The War is of the Ring is won, but the Fellowship is parted, Sam and Frodo are parted, Frodo is going with the last remaining Elves of Middle-Earth over the sea to Valinor, and the new age of Men begins - definately happy and sad.


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## greypilgrim (Jul 8, 2004)

I think the ending of the story was too quickly taken care of.


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## Heathertoes (Jul 9, 2004)

Please explain.


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## 33Peregrin (Jul 9, 2004)

Well, I kind of think the ending is taken care of too fast too... I mean, when it ends, I don't want it to end.


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## King Aragorn (Jul 9, 2004)

How do you think it has ended too quickly?


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## Saucy (Jul 9, 2004)

i think some find it sad because they become to attached to frodo and then to find he does not have a happily ever afte rthey are disapointed and find the ending is not happy.  

i figure the hapy ending is determined by what happens to ur favourite character.


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## 33Peregrin (Jul 9, 2004)

Well yeah... when I finish LOTR, I don't want to be finished with LOTR. I wish I were still reading it. That, and what Saucy said too, is how it ends to quickly.  But you can always read it again!


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## King Aragorn (Jul 9, 2004)

okay. I desperately need to re-read LOTR.


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## ely (Jul 10, 2004)

I agree that it was a rather sad ending. I really felt sorry for Frodo who couldn't live his life happily in the Shire as he wanted. I know he did find peace at last over the sea but he didn't want to go there. Not yet, anyway. When I finished reading LOTR I so clearly felt the feeling of all having been changed. I mean I could see so clearly green and sunny Hobbiton, all happy and having fun, but everything still changed for me. The quest is over, the aim is fulfilled, but nothing will ever be the same. And that was so sad. 

Also the fact that elves were leaving Middle-Earth and many things once so beautiful and fair would be forgotten. 

EDIT: But I still love this ending. Sad endings sometimes feel much more real and for that reason also more beautiful and touching.


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## Grond (Jul 10, 2004)

Sad?? I declare the ending both blessed and happy!!

1) The remaining Noldor have finally succeeded (through Frodo) in ridding Middle-earth of the last significant remant of Melkor/Morgoth and, in the process, finally earn themselves a one-way ticket back to the Blessed Realm.
2) Aragorn's destiny is fulfilled and he restores the line of the Eldar Kings to not only Gondor and Arnor but to most of Middle-earth as well.
3) Arwen (through Aragorn's success) is able to spend the rest of her life with the man she loves.
4) A quiet people (hobbits) rise up to attain status which equals or even exceeds that of the other races.
5) Through Frodo's sacrifice, the Shire is able to grow and prosper, as opposed to being ruined and in thralldom to Saruman.
6) The Dwarves and the remaining Green-elves are able to once again restore the type of friendship and kinship they once shared at Moria. (The Glittering Caves at Helm's Deep) [look in the appendices.]
7) Frodo and Bilbo are finally reunited and able to spend out what days are left them in the blissful quiet of the Blessed Realm.

Those are just a few of the wonderful results of your so-called sad/bittersweet ending. I think everyone is focusing on the personal losses of a few rather than looking at the great events which resulted in Middle-earth being a better (and happier place) due to the Fellowship completing their quest.

Cheers,

grond


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## Heathertoes (Jul 11, 2004)

Grond - reread the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. If at the end you don't cry like a four year old who has fallen off his bike you have a heart of stone.


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## Grond (Jul 11, 2004)

People who have known me on this board for a number of years willl tell you that I don't have a heart of stone.

The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen is a tale of ultimate fulfillment. It is sad in the details but is no different than the tale of Beren and Luthien. It is a common theme throughout history... women giving all they have for their man and Arwen and Aragorn reap the rewards of their long struggle by being allowed to spend their remaining mortal days together. How much sadder would it have been had Aragorn not fulfilled his destiny. He would have been alone until he died and Arwen would have been alone *forever*. 

I am not at all demeaning it or cheapening it. It is sad and I do always tear up when I read it... but the only sadness comes from the parting of "lives" on this plane. We don't know (and Tolkien doesn't tell us) that Arwen and Aragorn aren't living together in bliss where ever it is that the souls of mortal men go.

Cheers,

grond


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## ely (Jul 11, 2004)

It might be happy when you really think about it. But it still feels sad. 

And of course I'm viewing the things from my personal selfish angle... instead of feeling happy that the elves could go to West and live there in peace, I'm sad that they no longer were in Middle-Earth. 

But it all just *feels* so sad.


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## Ice Man (Jul 11, 2004)

Yes, always.
I feel as if I'm losing very dear friends as I read the last chapters and pages. It's almost as if I had taken part in the quest and suddenbly realized it was all over. The bare thought of it makes me feel somewat down and empty and even right now I can vividly remember what it feels like to read the end of LOTR.


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## greypilgrim (Jul 12, 2004)

I said the ending was too quickly taken care of... it isn't... actually, it's very long and drawn out. Starting with the chapter "Many Partings" until the very last page.

I get the feeling of all things coming to an end, and that is sad to me, because I've come to know all these different characters throughout the story and now they are all going. 

I hate to admit it, but I cried when Sam had to say his final farewell to Frodo.


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## Saucy (Jul 12, 2004)

i think the ending was fine, mostly cause i never liked frodo, i was more concerned with the ending for Aragorn, and Eowyn, and of course Pippin


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## Niirewen (Jul 12, 2004)

I love the ending. I wouldn't call it "happy," though. The word I would use to describe it is bittersweet, which has already been mentioned. It always makes me cry, and it breaks my heart, but I wouldn't have it any other way. The ending is perfect.


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## Saucy (Jul 12, 2004)

iam not one to get emotional at the end of a book, a story is a story, if u dont like the way it ends make up ur own ending thats the blessing of fiction


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## greypilgrim (Jul 12, 2004)

I think the ending was absolutely perfect.  Espescially Aragorn/Arwen.  

If I would change one thing, though, Gollum would have redeemed himself, been forgiven, and sailed to the undying lands with everyone else. (soft spot in my heart for the poor wretch)


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## Moonflower (Jul 14, 2004)

I think the ending is very sad, especially because Frodo could never gain back the same simple peace and eventually had to leave. But it is sad in a peaceful way. 

The Appendix Tale of Arwen/Aragorn is very depressing. The only thing that makes me feel better when I read it is when I focus on the 120 odd years they were able to spend together as Queen and King. But Arwen's ultimate fate is still pretty depressing.


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## greypilgrim (Jul 14, 2004)

Yeah, I was sad about that too (Arwen).


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## Aglarband (Jul 14, 2004)

The ending to LOTR is not sad, but it is not happy either.

What the ending is is REAL. Even though the world of Middle-earth was very unreal. The characters and emotions were. How many stories do you read and everyone is all happy at the end? Most of them right? And you can't help but feeling that it isn't real, or just cheezy. The characters in Tolkien's stories all have very UNfairy-tale lives. The stories of Tolkien are more like Greek Dramas than Fantasy tales. This is why people think of the ending of his books are sad, they arn't they are real.

These stories are very much like what legends are before they are told and retold then the heros become mythic, and the ending is changed to better suit the tellers audience. Thats what makes these stories amazing.


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## 33Peregrin (Jul 31, 2004)

Saucy said:


> i think the ending was fine, mostly cause i never liked frodo



Can you tell me why?


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## Niirewen (Aug 5, 2004)

Frodo isn't my favorite, but I always thought it was terribly sad when he left Middle-earth. Mostly because I feel so sorry for poor Sam. Also it's hard to let him go if you get attached to him, which isn't very hard to do (for me, at least).


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## Khazad (Aug 14, 2004)

Aglarband said:


> The ending to LOTR is not sad, but it is not happy either.
> 
> What the ending is is REAL. Even though the world of Middle-earth was very unreal. The characters and emotions were. How many stories do you read and everyone is all happy at the end? Most of them right? And you can't help but feeling that it isn't real, or just cheezy. The characters in Tolkien's stories all have very UNfairy-tale lives. The stories of Tolkien are more like Greek Dramas than Fantasy tales. This is why people think of the ending of his books are sad, they arn't they are real.
> 
> These stories are very much like what legends are before they are told and retold then the heros become mythic, and the ending is changed to better suit the tellers audience. Thats what makes these stories amazing.



I totally agree. Tolkien was realistic, living two world wars did had impact on him and his writings. Nobody do not win in war, nothing is not the same after the sacrifice. Tolkien pointed that out very nicely.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Aug 24, 2004)

Heathertoes said:


> I always feel utterly depressed when I finish the LotR, especially if I include the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. Does everyone feel the same?



You bring up profound questions: What is Tolkien's intention as to how the reader is supposed to feel after finishing the book? What is the main theme of the book?

My feeling is this (even though T has denied it): that his soul was so fried after his experience in WW I that he somehow had to respond to it in a way that he could find resolution to it in himself. He had lost virtually all his friends; he had seen (and smelled and perhaps even touched) horrific things on the battlefield. He sustained permanent psychic wounds for which there was no modern treatment, such as today's procedures of handling post-traumatic stress syndrome — indeed, the concept was not even coined then. At best he was "shell-shocked."

So I think, as do others, that his writing of LOTR was in part an effort (probably he didn't realize it) to heal his soul of the ghastly experience he had to endure. Consciously, he wanted to "try his hand at a really long tale."

So how should we react? The story is very different in structure from one written by a professional author who knows "story arch" and various other construction devices. It proceeds in a very _real_ way, including a deliberate and long anti-climax: The Scouring of the Shire. And then we find (as did Tolkien himself) that Frodo bears a wound "that will never really heal." He can't take any more of life in Middle-earth, and he goes over Sea where he can heal and then die in the moment of his own choosing, a rare and precious gift. (Only Elves are immortal, not hobbits, not men, not dwarves. It was not given to them to live forever, even should they go over Sea.) And I think that — psychologically and spiritually — the world of Middle-earth was Tolkien's own private world "over Sea," where he could go — probably being unaware of it — to heal himself of his own "Morgul blade wounds." 

It's no wonder there's no traditional "happy ending." Indeed, it would be outrageously out of place. But feeling depressed is not, I think, what Professor Tolkien would have wanted either. After all, after coming right to the brink, to the razor's edge, Good prevailed. And that is a huge part of the appeal of the book: that there's Good worth fighting and dying for. No such thing happened in WW I. It was an utterly stupid war with no benefits for anyone, only lives needless lost and families permanently shattered. Perhaps Tolkien, in writing LOTR, tried in his way (on a subconscious level) to set things to rights.

Barley


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