# Why do So Many People Seem Convinced Batman and Superman Hate Each Other?



## Gloranthan (Dec 12, 2022)

Batman and Superman have been at odds in one out-of-continuity graphic novel, one film, and had some tension with each other in a couple of comic arcs from decades ago. In every other era, and most out-of-continuity stories, they are trusted allies who have the utmost respect for each other. In fact, in the majority of continuity comics ever published, from the 50s to today, they could easily be considered best friends. *The most recent Superman comic published has Batman giving Superman a hug, cooking him breakfast, and making jokes.* How have people so horribly misconceived the basic nature of their relationship? I see questions implying some deep division or dislike _constantly_ in forums and on Quora. I seriously think that most people online talking about comic books have never actually read comic books and live in a world of memes and out of context panels.


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## Ent (Dec 12, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> I seriously think that most people online talking about comic books have never actually read comic books and live in a world of memes and out of context panels.


In other words, that which is true of Tolkien is also true of Superman, Batman, and others.

Oh wait... mis-stated.

Better: "that which is true of PEOPLE is true in virtually every realm they determine to deal with." 

The old phrase: "man goes through life with eyes wide open, totally blind" comes promptly to mind. It is quite accurate. 
it is also coupled with "man prefers to be spoon-fed what he is to think and to believe, rather than put any work into finding out about a matter on his own." 

These things are no mystery, but are 'the fact of the species.'


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## Gloranthan (Dec 12, 2022)

Ent said:


> In other words, that which is true of Tolkien is also true of Superman, Batman, and others.
> 
> Oh wait... mis-stated.
> 
> ...


Yeah, normies gonna norm. But I also suspect this particular form of ignorance is related to the awful, passive-aggressive den of 'battleboards and powerscaling', where nonsensical arguments and fake science are treated as objective and petty children snipe at each other, usually both being wrong and having never read comics. People seem to love the 'Batman vs. Superman' fight (which is ridiculous, but that's not the main problem) and the Batman fanboys are incredibly rabid and hostile to Big Blue. People translate their constant harping into some notion that Batman has a problem with Superman. In fact, Batman probably trusts Clark more than his own son. I have no problem with talking about fictional character fights, but it's creative writing, not a physics equation. It's mostly an excuse for immature people to be dismissive and rude to strangers.


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## Ent (Dec 12, 2022)

Batman has a son? Shows you what I know.
I guess if I ever want to find out more about Batman and Superman I'll go find a forum for that. (I rather find them boring). 
This being the Tolkien forum, I'll keep looking out for the Tolkien related stuff here. 'Tis why I came.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 12, 2022)

Ent said:


> Batman has a son? Shows you what I know.
> I guess if I ever want to find out more about Batman and Superman I'll go find a forum for that. (I rather find them boring).
> This being the Tolkien forum, I'll keep looking out for the Tolkien related stuff here. 'Tis why I came.


They both have children, and I hate both of their children. I loath child protagonists.


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## Olorgando (Dec 12, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> Batman and Superman have been at odds in one out-of-continuity graphic novel, one film, and had some tension with each other in a couple of comic arcs from decades ago.


I just checked my graphic novels collection on Batman, and it turns out I have 16 of them (one is a collection of stories), by varying authors, of varying sizes and quality of story. One is an English original, the rest German translations.
The one I found best, and which might fit, though that's iffy, is the first one I bought, IIRC: "The Dark Knight Returns" from 1986, German translation 1989, by Frank Miller, Klaus Janson and Lynn Varley. Batman is in his mid-50's by then, and the confrontation between Batman and Superman is driven by circumstances, not personal enmity.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 12, 2022)

And Superman is a government tool in that. It's so far out of canon it can't even see Earth Prime. But a lot of people have only seen random panels from that and never actually read the book. IT's amazing how many people argue about comics they have never once read.

I'm sure some people do the same thing with Tolkien. Or anything that requires reading.


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## Olorgando (Dec 12, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> And Superman is a government tool in that. It's so far out of canon it can't even see Earth Prime.


Well, the canon would be Batman canon here, Superman being in a supporting role.
Has there ever been a story in Batman canon with Batman, as the central character, being in his mid-50's or older?
One other graphic novel I own has Batman's son, while his maternal grandfather is some kind of demigod or whatever, Wayne Manor an intersection of lines of power grandpa needs (I'm paraphrasing from memory), and a whole slew of fake Batmen that junior takes out with dispatch.


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## Ent (Dec 12, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> I'm sure some people do the same thing with Tolkien.


Changing '_some_ people' to '_many_ people' would be in order to approach the truth better.
(Though not so much here on TTF I think. I do believe the readers and diggers here outweigh the hearers, borrowers and watchers only.)

It also seems those same are unwilling to recognize the great difference between 'opinion' and 'knowledge'. 

"So what if there are 1,593 sources to review out there. I've seen (or heard about) 3 of them, and I can TELL you that what I'm saying is the truth."

_The most divisive thing in the world today is the Religion of Opinion. ....................... _Ent

Wisdom does not come in leveraging one's extents. Rather it comes in recognizing one's limitations.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 12, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> Has there ever been a story in Batman canon with Batman, as the central character, being in his mid-50's or older?


No, Batman is about late 30s in canon. Superman is a couple years younger. As Mort Weisenger once declared, _Superman is always 33._


Olorgando said:


> One other graphic novel I own has Batman's son, while his maternal grandfather is some kind of demigod or whatever, Wayne Manor an intersection of lines of power grandpa needs (I'm paraphrasing from memory), and a whole slew of fake Batmen that junior takes out with dispatch.


That sounds crazy enough to be a comic, yes.


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## Mr.Underhill (Dec 14, 2022)

As a kid i had a guy who argued with me which was better. Batman or Superman ( i have no idea who i tried to argue for which was better) but i never got into superheroes later as some are huge fan of it. Though i did have soft spot for Spiderman growing up


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