# Why is Anduril so powerful?



## Turin (Feb 13, 2003)

Why is Anduril feared by all its enemies? I know its ancient but why is it so powerful?


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## Aulë (Feb 13, 2003)

A sword which has "killed" one of the greatest enemies known to have walked on Middle Earth would have a mighty reputation, and all evil would fear it.

Remember in the Hobbit, Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting were all feared by the Orcs of Misty Mountains because of previous encounters.


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## Grond (Feb 17, 2003)

Actually, Anduril's lineage is right up there with the best weapons of Middle-earth. It was, according to Aragorn himself, forged by Telchar himself.


> _from The Two Towers, The King of the Golden Hall_
> Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. *Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time.* Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'


Telchar is mentioned twice in the Silmarillion ...first as being the greatest Dwarven-craftsman of Nogrod and then as being the forger of Angrist, Curufin's blade that was taken from him by Beren and later used to cut one of the Silmaril's from the Dark Lord Morgoth's crown. 

Telchar is mentioned again twice in Unfinished Tales; first, as the maker of the Helm of Hador (which was originally made for Azaghal, Lord of Belegost) and then in reference to Thingol's armouries, insinuating that they may have been made by Telchar or Feanor or both.

How the blade ended up in the hands of the Faithful of Numenor is never answered. One would think that it would have been the blade of the Kings of Numenor (given its lineage). Some mysteries are doomed to remain mysteries.


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## Gothmog (Feb 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Grond _
> *Actually, Anduril's lineage is right up there with the best weapons of Middle-earth.
> 
> How the blade ended up in the hands of the Faithful of Numenor is never answered. One would think that it would have been the blade of the Kings of Numenor (given its lineage). Some mysteries are doomed to remain mysteries.  *


It may well be that an answer is to be found. We can find some information in the Sil regarding this question. We know that Anduril was first called Narsil and belonged to Elendil, so looking at the lineage of Elendil we find the following:


> Highest in honour after the house of the kings were the *Lords of Andúnië; for they were of the line of Elros, being descended from Silmarien, daughter of Tar-Elendil the fourth king of Númenor*. And these lords were loyal to the kings, and revered them; *and the Lord of Andúnië was ever among the chief councillors of the Sceptre*. Yet also from the beginning they bore especial love to the Eldar and reverence for the Valar; and as the Shadow grew they aided the Faithful as they could. But for long they did not declare themselves openly, and sought rather to amend the harts of the lords of the Sceptre with wiser counsels.


 And then:


> Yet such was the cunning of his mind and mouth, and the strength of his hidden will, that ere three years had passed he had become closest to the secret counsels of the King; for flattery sweet as honey was ever on his tongue, and knowledge he had of many things yet unrevealed to Men. And seeing the favour that he had of their lord all the councillors began to fawn upon him, save one alone,* Amandil lord of Andúnië*. Then slowly a change come over the land, and the hearts of the Elf-friends were sorely troubled, and many fell away out of fear; and although those that remained still called themselves the Faithful, their enemies named them rebels.


 And finally:


> The chief among them, to whom they looked for leading and courage in evil days, was *Amandil, councillor of the King, and his son Elendil*, whose sons were Isildur and Anárion, then young men by the reckoning of Númenor. *Amandil and Elendil were great ship-captains; and they were of the line of Elros Tar-Minyatur, thought not of the ruling house to whom belonged the crown and the throne in the city of Armenelos*. In the days of their youth together Amandil had been dear to Pharazôn, and thought he was of the Elf-friends he remained in his council until the coming of Sauron. Now he was dismissed, for Sauron hated him above all others in Númenor. But he was so noble, and had been so mighty a captain of the sea, that he was still held in honour by many of the people, and neither the King not Sauron dared to lay hands on him as yet.


 from: The Silmarillion: AKALLABÊTH

We then can see that Elendil came from the line of the Lords of Andúnië and were of the line of Elros and were also councilors of the Kings. Also it is not unlikely that there were a number of swords made for Elros by Telchar and one of these could well have been given to one of the Lords of Andúnië at some point. Perhaps even a wedding gift to the husband of Silmarien. This would make the lineage of Anduril only slightly less than that of the sword of the King of Numenor and a worthy weapon of the High King of the Numenorians in Exile.


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## Grond (Feb 17, 2003)

*slaps self on head* 
Thank you Gothmog. Sometimes we get caught up in linear thinking and miss an easy and obvious answer. Of course there would have been many swords of high lineage and Anduril could easily have been one of a few "great" swords that passed from the First Age into the Second Age. One forgets that Telchar could have given more than one sword to the Adunie.


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## Tar-Palantir (Feb 18, 2003)

I, too, find it odd that Tolkien did not specify the chain of possession for Narsil from Telchar to Elendil, since he made such a point to do so with other heirlooms.

I doubt that Telchar made and/or gave it to Elros _himself_; I can't see where or when he would have had the opportunity.

My guess is that it was part of Thingol's armory and was saved from the sack of Doriath by the survivors. It ended up at the mouths of Sirion with the conjoining of the people of Gondolin, Doriath, Gil-Galad, and Cirdan. From there, I agree with Gothmog's theory about it being "related" to the sword of the King of Numenor and passed down among the Lords of Andunie.


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## Turin (Feb 18, 2003)

Thats pretty cool I never thought of who forged it.


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## Melian Le Fay (Oct 20, 2008)

I don't know whether this is cannon or not... but I somehow always imagined that the swords, or other artifacts, grew stronger with age, as long as new "layers" of history were added to them by their wielders. You could say that this opinion is contrary to the overall waning of the powers of old that can be felt throughout LoTR and The Sil, but somehow it just feels right...


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## AmrothofArnor (Oct 26, 2009)

This where the wielders of Narsil in chronoly time:

- Telchar made it
- Son of Fëanor (not Maglor or Maedhros or Amros/Amrod, most possible Caranthir) did trade it with the Dwarves
- After his death Maglor get it
- Elros got it from Maglor
- It became the heirloom of the Kings of Númenor
- The husband of Silmariën got it (possible a gift when he married Silmariën)
- Amandil gave it to his son Elendil before he went to the Valar
- Elendil killed Sauron with it
- Isildur and his descendants did wear the shards
- The Elves reforge it for Aragorn
- Eldarion and his heirs did use it.


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## Bucky (Nov 2, 2009)

Back to the original post:

Where is it stated that Anduril is 'so powerful'?


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## Ares B (Dec 3, 2009)

Turin said:


> Why is Anduril feared by all its enemies? I know its ancient but why is it so powerful?



It had several runes carved on it, and in Middle-Earth runes had power. 

Merry was given the Horn of Mark, that was engraved with runes that gave it the ability to cause enemies fear and friends joy, and bring the blower's friends to him. Anduril very likely had similar powers.


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## Ares B (Dec 3, 2009)

Bucky said:


> Where is it stated that Anduril is 'so powerful'?



Stealing shamelessly from Wikipedia:

From _The Silmarillion_:
...the sword of Elendil filled Orcs and Men with fear, for it shone with the light of the sun and of the moon, and it was named Narsil. ...Thus Narsil came in due time to the hand of Valandil, Isildur's heir, in Imladris; but the blade was broken and its light extinguished, and it was not forged anew.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsil#cite_note-1​ There are several other indications of this in _The Lord of the Rings_, including:
But even as the orc flung down the truncheon and swept out his scimitar, Andúril came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsil#cite_note-2​ Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsil#cite_note-3​ Charging from the side, they hurled themselves upon the wild men. Andúril rose and fell, gleaming with white fire. A shout went up from wall and tower: "Andúril! Andúril goes to war. The Blade that was Broken shines again!" ...Three times Aragorn and Éomer rallied them, and three times Andúril flamed in a desperate charge that drove the enemy from the wall.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsil#cite_note-hornburg-4​ Tolkien confirms that this glow was not simply due to reflection or polishing in a private letter, where he describes Andúril as glowing with an "elvish light".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsil#cite_note-5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsil#cite_note-5
Unlike Sting and Glamdring, Narsil/Andúril was not described to glow in the presence of Orcs, and it did not glow blue. Rather, it glowed with a red light in sunlight, and a white light in moonlight.


Thus, the sword was enriched with the talents of three great races of Middle-Earth - Dwarves, Elves and Men - further illustrating its perfection as a symbol of kingdoms reunited and kinship triumphant.


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## Alcuin (Dec 3, 2009)

Ares B said:


> … Narsil/Andúril … was enriched with the talents of three great races of Middle-Earth - Dwarves, Elves and Men - further illustrating its perfection as a symbol of kingdoms reunited and kinship triumphant.


That’s a good point. Its manufacture was first by Dwarves in Nogrod, then by the Noldor in Rivendell, getting the best of the ancient smiths of both races.



Gothmog said:


> …it is not unlikely that there were a number of swords made for Elros by Telchar and one of these could well have been given to one of the Lords of Andúnië at some point. Perhaps even a wedding gift to the husband of Silmarien. This would make the lineage of Anduril only slightly less than that of the sword of the King of Numenor and a worthy weapon of the High King of the Numenorians in Exile.


There is no evidence for it, but I suspect Aranrúth, Elu Thingol’s personal weapon and subsequently the sword of state of the Kings of Númenor, was also made by Telchar. The Elves of Doriath and the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains (Nogrod and Belegost) established considerable and mutually profitable trade before the Noldor returned to Middle-earth. 

It was not uncommon in the Middle Ages for kings and powerful noblemen to have swords forged in pairs. If one broke, the other would serve as its immediate replacement; the spare was as nearly alike the first as possible. One example of this in Tolkien’s work may be two blades forged by Eöl, Anglachel and Anguirel. Anglachel was given by Eöl to Elu Thingol as tribute, and subsequently taken by Turin and reforged for him by the Noldor in Nargothrond as Gurthang. (Eöl had close connections to the Dwarves and learned much of their secret smithcraft. Perhaps the reforging of Anglachel/Gurthang which was broken when its owner fell on it to commit suicide is a foreshadow of Narsil/Andúril, which was broken when its owner fell on it in mortal combat and then reforged?) Anguirel was taken by Maeglin, Eöl’s son, when he and his mother Aredhel fled from Eöl to Gondolin.

All that to say: Although it is not in any published material, I speculate that Aranrúth and Narsil were both forged by Telchar, and that both belonged to Thingol. Aranrúth was his personal weapon, and Narsil was its mate in case it was broken. And I agree with *Gothmog* that it made a fitting present by Tar-Elendil to either Elatan of Andúnië, husband of Silmariën, or their son Valandil, first of the Lords of Andúnië. 

The House of Valandil Lord of Andúnië was accounted second in nobility only to the House of Elros in Númenor. Silmariën was Tar-Elendil’s oldest child, but because she was a woman, the crown was given to her brother Meneldur. Tar-Meneldur’s son Aldarion had only one child, a daughter, Ancalimë, who became the first Ruling Queen. So the crown passed to a woman anyway. Moreover, Valandil surely knew that Ancalimë would become Ruling Queen: she took the throne in II 1075, and Valandil probably did not die until sometime around II 1035. 

Were Narsil the mate of Aranrúth, if Tar-Elendil gave it to Valandil (or Elatan), it served as a material proof that distinguished his line as second to the kings. (It could also be viewed as a kind of consolation prize, but that’s a pretty fine consolation.)

Now, a follow-up: 


If the reforging of Anglachel/Gurthang which was broken when its owner fell on it to commit suicide _is_ a foreshadow of Narsil/Andúril, which was broken when its owner fell on it in mortal combat and then reforged,
then is Aragorn a kind of replacement or restoration of his ancestral uncle, Turin (Elrond thought Aragorn most resembled another ancestral uncle, Isildur’s eldest son and crown prince, Elendur, who died with rest of the Númenóreans in the battle near Gladden Fields), making the union between Arwen and Aragorn, the third between Elves and Men, a replacement for the failed union between Finduilas and Turin? (Cf. Gandalf the White’s description of himself in _TT_: “Indeed I _am_ Saruman, … Saruman as he should have been.”)


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## Bucky (Dec 4, 2009)

Not to highjack this thread, but.......

All these quotes about the light of Anduril seems out of context with the clearly stated fact that only blades made in the Elder Days shone when Orcs were near.

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but I thought the whole light thing went out with the end of the First Age.

Thoughts?

Will we just explain this away due to the difference in Anduril not actually glowing when Orcs are near (or is it?)

Or, is it due to Narsil having been forged in the First Age? 

BTW: Interesting about the shing like a flame. I always took that as the fact the Fellowship was in the Dark (Moria) & the clash of metal on metal.......

The sun & the moon thing: Very interesting! Is that consistent with day & night in all those quotes?

And, are we sure Orcs are NOT present in EVERY one of those accounts to make it shine? Perhaps they are! 
A shining sword could make an evil man fear too while not causing the sword to shine I bet...........


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## Alcuin (Dec 5, 2009)

Bucky said:


> All these quotes about the light of Anduril seems out of context with the clearly stated fact that only blades made in the Elder Days shone when Orcs were near.
> 
> I know it's not exactly the same thing, but I thought the whole light thing went out with the end of the First Age.


I think it was only blades made by the Noldor. It might have been specific even to one group of Noldorin smiths: the only blades that we are actually told shown in the presence of orcs were out of Gondolin. 

Since Noldorin smiths living in Rivendell reforged Narsil into Anduril (likely refugees from Hollin that Elrond led there during the war with Sauron in the mid-Second Age), we can ask several questions.


Did Anduril not shine in the presence of orcs because it was in its origins a Dwarvish blade (forged by Telchar);
Did Anduril not shine despite its reforging by the Noldor because the smiths forgot or lost the means to acheive this?
Was it only blades from Gondolin that had this property, and was the technique lost because almost the entire population of that city was exterminated?


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## Ares B (Dec 6, 2009)

The way I see it Andúril shone,"the light of the sun shone readily in it, and the light of the moon shone cold". It didn't shine particularly in presence of orcs simply because it wasn't built that way, but generally in battle (at wielder's will?), which gave courage to allies and caused fear in enemies. It could also tear through shields and armor with incredible ease.

For roleplayers, the answer is written: 

+50 OB; Holy Blade; flames on command; when flaming, Andúril can burn Hot with a red flame, delivering extra Heat criticals of equal severity and becoming Of Slaying Orcs, or it can burn Cold with a white flame, delivering an extra Cold critical (of equal severity) as well becoming Of Slaying Undead.


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## Bucky (Dec 11, 2009)

PLEASE no role playing quotes.....

That's like 'E.U.' in Star Wars.


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## Astrance (Dec 13, 2009)

Alcuin said:


> I think it was only blades made by the Noldor. It might have been specific even to one group of Noldorin smiths: the only blades that we are actually told shown in the presence of orcs were out of Gondolin.
> 
> Since Noldorin smiths living in Rivendell reforged Narsil into Anduril (likely refugees from Hollin that Elrond led there during the war with Sauron in the mid-Second Age), we can ask several questions.
> 
> ...



I think too that only the blades forged by the Noldor shone with that light when close to Orcs. The secret was most probably lost at the Fall of Gondolin — there's no evidence that blades forged in the Second Age in Hollin had that light.
I always thought that blue light was sort of connected to the blue lamps of the Noldor (remember when Tuor meets these two Noldo messengers carrying such a lamp ?). The secret of making the lamps is said to have been lost, probably during the First Age — the Exiles « left it » in Aman (that's stated somewhere in the notes of _Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin_).
So there'd be no wonder that another kind of artifacts disappeared during the next Age. It would make sense in Tolkien's view of fading things.

Now, as for why Andùril is so powerful. It surely comes from the runes engraved on the blade, but probably also from the ones who forged it anew. We never know who they are exactly, but since refugees from Hollin dwelled in Rivendell, it is most probable that Elrond asked one of the skilled craftsmen from that land to do the job. After all, Hollin was a place for great smiths, and even if Celebrimbor was killed, some had to survive.


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## Turgon (Dec 14, 2009)

Of course the runes could just say _'Made in Nogrod'_.

You never know!


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## Astrance (Dec 14, 2009)

Or worse, they said _'From your sweety lambkin with love, xoxox Arwen'  _


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## Turgon (Dec 14, 2009)

Worse case scenario: It reads _'Made in Bree'_ and the House of Elendil has taken us all for fools...


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## Gigantor (Apr 5, 2017)

Turin said:


> Why is Anduril feared by all its enemies? I know its ancient but why is it so powerful?


cuz it's a badass sword, plain and simple.


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