# Science Fiction writer claims LOTR is racist for discriminating against orcs



## Erestor Arcamen (Nov 27, 2018)

I found this article in my News Feed and was blown away at how stupid it is, anyone else see it? I'm actually ashamed that I gave the article the time of day to even look at it.



> The Lord of the Rings series has been branded 'racist' by a science fiction writer who claims orcs are discriminated against and written as inferior.
> 
> American author Andy Duncan said British author JRR Tolkien depicted evil creatures such as orcs as 'worse than others' and said this had 'dire consequences for society'.
> 
> The criticism comes despite Tolkien being known as a fierce critic of racism, particularly the Nazi Germany regime in the 1930s and 40s.


----------



## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 27, 2018)

Yeah, I saw that. His idea that orcs were "raised out of the earth" gives an indication of the depth of his knowledge about Tolkien.


----------



## Gothmog (Nov 27, 2018)

Well, it seems to me to be just one more trying to make a name by attacking that which he cannot emulate.


----------



## Elaini (Nov 27, 2018)

The whole society structure that Orcs might have is based on slavery, invasion and survival of the fittest from the start, and they were captured, tortured and marred Elves to begin with. They weren't raised out the earth.

The only trace of free will they might have left are based on selfish goals, vengeance and glee. They have a lot of hatred, but they have forgotten the cause of it, serving it instead.


----------



## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 27, 2018)

Gothmog said:


> Well, it seems to me to be just one more trying to make a name by attacking that which he cannot emulate.



A case of "any publicity is good publicity", I guess. He wrote a parody, with "Senator Bilbo" trying to keep "migrant orcs" out of the Shire. I'd take his criticisms about as seriously as I would those from the writers of Bored of the Rings.


----------



## Gothmog (Nov 27, 2018)

I would take "Bored of the Rings" slightly more seriously than him. At least the Harvard Lampoon intended it to be funny.


----------



## Miguel (Nov 27, 2018)

This man doesn't know they play this at the Pony in the after hours?.


----------



## Menegilda Brandybuck (Nov 28, 2018)

Wait, so what are we meant to do? Try to _feel sorry_ the nassty orcsess and let them take over Middle Earth? Holy Smokes!!! _Really?_


----------



## Elaini (Nov 28, 2018)

Menegilda Brandybuck said:


> Wait, so what are we meant to do? Try to _feel sorry_ the nassty orcsess and let them take over Middle Earth? Holy Smokes!!! _Really?_



Racism is one thing, constant evidence of the wrongdoing without a shadow of a doubt is another.

Besides, they don't just kill their enemies. They _hunt_ their enemies for dinner, like the free peoples were some kind of game to them.


----------



## Eebounnie (Nov 28, 2018)

Honestly most of the article from News Feed are mediocre so I'm not really surprised. Clickbait at its finest.


----------



## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 29, 2018)

Gothmog said:


> At least the Harvard Lampoon intended it to be funny.



"The road to Hell. . ." etc.


----------



## Valandil (Nov 29, 2018)

What's most amazing to me... is how much media attention this guy is getting for his claim.

The one I like best, though, is this...

https://babylonbee.com/news/terrori...7nz4lovAOB953p8ep_cwSui6ympSFsLMvDW7fjdQUfnhU


----------



## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 29, 2018)

Ha! Glad I didn’t have a mouthful of tea when I clicked on that!


----------



## Erestor Arcamen (Nov 30, 2018)

Valandil said:


> What's most amazing to me... is how much media attention this guy is getting for his claim.
> 
> The one I like best, though, is this...
> 
> https://babylonbee.com/news/terrori...7nz4lovAOB953p8ep_cwSui6ympSFsLMvDW7fjdQUfnhU



That's fabulous!


----------



## Valandil (Nov 30, 2018)

The Babylon Bee is a "Christian Satire" site - sort of like a Christian Onion.


----------



## Miguel (Nov 30, 2018)




----------



## Barliman (Nov 30, 2018)

Andy Duncan reminds me of Herschel from The Walking Dead and his barn full of zombies he wanted to redeem.
Just as logical.


----------



## Denise Winebrenner (May 19, 2021)

These are very interesting thoughts about this kind of racism. Recently I tried to study such a phenomenon through the work of many authors. But, I never did this on the example of the works of Tolkien. Thank you for giving me this idea. I read a little about such studies on the Eduzaurus website and decided to try to do it. I loved this way of learning about racism. It is especially interesting to study this on the example of non-contemporary literature. I will definitely be engaged in the analysis and creativity of Tolkiens. Thanks for the idea, I will try to implement it!


----------



## 1stvermont (May 19, 2021)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I found this article in my News Feed and was blown away at how stupid it is, anyone else see it? I'm actually ashamed that I gave the article the time of day to even look at it.



First off I did not read the article so I could be missing the mark here. I read only your quoted section. But to many living today "racism" has come to mean something different than Tolkiens day. So today if you have any group of beings such as orcs and you make a moral presentation of them that differs from say the elves, that is racists. Tolkien believed in good and evil and thus orcs represent his ideas of evil, totalitarnism, environmental decay, hatred, murder, pillaging, etc elves represent in so many ways what Tolkien viewed as good and just unfallen mankind.


----------



## Olorgando (May 19, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> He wrote a parody, with "Senator Bilbo" trying to keep "migrant orcs" out of the Shire.


There is a backstory to this: apparently Duncan modeled his "Senator Bilbo" on someone who actually bore that name:
Theodore Gilmore Bilbo, Governor of Mississippi from 1916-20 and 1928-32, and US Senator from Mississippi from 1935 until his death in 1947.
I have that story by Duncan in a German translation, in a compilation of stories by several authors of fantasy stories published in paperback in 2006, original hardback copyright 2003.


----------



## Ealdwyn (May 20, 2021)

1stvermont said:


> elves represent in so many ways what Tolkien viewed as good and just unfallen mankind.


Seriously? Have you read the Silmarillion? 😂


----------



## 1stvermont (May 20, 2021)

Ealdwyn said:


> Seriously? Have you read the Silmarillion? 😂



lol, perhaps the potential for the good in humanity. Not that they cannot fall or error.


----------



## Barliman (May 22, 2021)

Olorgando said:


> There is a backstory to this: apparently Duncan modeled his "Senator Bilbo" on someone who actually bore that name:
> Theodore Gilmore Bilbo, Governor of Mississippi from 1916-20 and 1928-32, and US Senator from Mississippi from 1935 until his death in 1947.


Interesting, I wonder if he's related to the man who opened this BBQ place in Temple, Georgia (the US Georgia), still run by his family.
Though his first name was Bilbo so it was probably that his parents were hippies LOL



BTW, good food if anyone is ever in the area.


----------

