# History of Middlearth or.. Earth?



## Eogthea (Jan 7, 2002)

Is the history of Middlearth the history of another place, existing solely in Tolkien's mind and books or the real history of our planet? If you look at it, the two histories are eerily similar. Any thoughts?


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## Earnil (Jan 7, 2002)

Well when Tolkien wrote all of this, he had in mind creating a mythology for the region of our world that mainly consist of Europe. It is a mythology Tolkien created for Britain basically, because the original mythology of Britain had been lost in the Norman Conquests of Britain. And so he took it upon himself to create an all new mythology. Although I doubt that he could have imagined it becoming this popular.


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## BluestEye (Jan 8, 2002)

*Channeling the Lord of the Rings*

I believe in part that JRR Tolkien kind of "Channeled" his stories. He himself wrote many times that he didn't know where his books led to. He didn't know what comes next in the story. Not untill he wrote a great deal of it. In fact, at first he thought Frodo and Sam will reach Mordor at the end of the second Book and that this will be the end of the story about the War of the Rings...
If he indeed channeled this story (even without him knowing this), where did this channeling come from? From a faraway planet that owned this history? From another reality? A parallel-Universe?

BluestEye


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## Atticus (Jan 8, 2002)

I feel the same pain as any true Tolkien fan. I look to the west in hopes of seeing something odd. I name places in the woods after ME landmarks. I look for silmilarities in our world to Tolkien's. I rack my brains and think of ways this could all be true. It is probably more painful than anything I have ever felt. That is because to us it has become true, and some of us would even trade everything for this world that Tolkien has channeled -er, created. If I had one guarenteed wish, I would have the powers that be (god, allah, vishnu, whoever) create Tolkien's world in fullness and put me there. These books, for those who are affected deeply by it, are enough to put most of us in the Funny Farm. That is why I put down the books sometimes, before I go insane. I keep wanting to depart to the grey havens, but they are not there.

When I was younger, I prayed for Tolkiens works to be true.
Maybe we should just give up this dream, I know I am not the only one this is hurting. The works of Tolkiens are like the Ring, and the stories are always luring us. The fans like me who have become entranced by it no longer belong to this world, and you (Each and everyone) know this is true. This is real to us, but it is also a curse upon us, because we will never be healed. You might think you are (as I did for three or so years), but once you pick up one of the books again the pain is there again. You will grasp at it but it won't be there. Will it ever?


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## Eogthea (Jan 8, 2002)

Wow, Atticus knows exactly what I'm talking about. But Middle Earth is Earth if you think about it. The wars, the hopes, the dreams. Aren't we all here realizing that? That history is our history. Just look at it closely enough.


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## Earendil (Jan 9, 2002)

Wow, Atticus, you totally read my mind. I've always felt kinda crazy for feeling that Tolkien's world is more real (or should be)to me than reality. Guess I'm not alone, huh?


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## Curufinwe (Jan 9, 2002)

I was gonna post this in another thread but then I decided not to but when I look at Numenor and it being sucked up it reminds me of noah and the arc does anyine esle see that resemblance?


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## BluestEye (Jan 9, 2002)

It reminds me more of the sinking of Atlantis. For some reason another name for Numenor was... Atalanta!

BluestEye


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## ReadWryt (Jan 9, 2002)

Numenor and its fall was originally written into a Time Travel story by Tolkien called "The Lost Road" and WAS Atlantis. The deal he struck with C.S. Lewis was that Lewis would write a Science Fiction and Tolkien would do a Time Travel piece. You can pick up "The Lost Road" with notations by Christopher as the third book in the History of Middle-earth, and it explains it all in there.

As for the original question, Middle-earth was meant to be a mythical pre-history of Europe that Tolkien created because after studying Finnish, Norse and other mythologies he became saddened that England had no unique mythology of it's own.


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## BluestEye (Jan 9, 2002)

Great explanation, I liked that.

BluestEye


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## Lantarion (Jan 9, 2002)

I agree with Atticus completely, and feel the same way. ALthough I don't think about Middle-earth constantly, I realize a lot more about the world around us by putting it in terms of the huge world that Tolkien has created. The trees, the sky, lakes, the sea, snow, the sun, etc. mean more to me now that I have been introduced to a respecting and awe-filled way of viewing the world through the LotR and the Silmarillion, and by Arda in general.
I believe I've read somewhere that the world of Middle-earth is set about 6000 years before the time it was written. It could be a time somewhere between the ice ages, when the world was possibly completely different but we don't know about it. But that's the so-called "realistic" way of seeing Arda.
It's really spectacular to think that great empires and peoples like Byzantine Rome, the Greek Empire with Alexander the Great, the Vikings, etc. are just copies and offspring of Numenor, Gondor, Rohan and people like the Corsairs of Umbar. I realize that truthfully the lands of Arda have never existed. But whenever I think of ancient civilizations and kingdoms, I automatically think of the lands and kingdoms of Middle-earth, and compare the two. 
I view the myths of the Silmarillion, and the legendary happenings in the Lord of the Rings, as any great mythology. Old Inuit, Aborigine, Aztec, Maya, Maori, Chinese, Welsh, Finnish mythologies are the building blocks of the worldwide Human concsiousness, IMO, and I think that through mythologies and legends and tales we learn more about the ways our minds and unconcsious thoughts work; therefore we get a clearer picture of our existence. Tolkien has added a great step to this system, and it's thanks to him that our minds evolve.


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## Atticus (Jan 9, 2002)

I really like to see someone who is deeply reading the books and yet is able to keep free of the grip that I have fallen under. I just proves who is childish and who is not. Maybe I am not yet ready to let go, or view it from your standpoint, Pontifex. But I am glad you do view it this way, it gives me a starting point to my freedom that I may acheive. Great Post, even though my heart weeps at reading it.


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## Aiwendil (Jan 17, 2002)

As to Pontifex's idea of the LoTR being written from the veiw of someone 6ooo years after the events, and his idea of that being in the ice ages...

For those Christians out there, I believe (and have it on good knowledge) that the earth as we know it is only 6ooo years old if that. But Tolkien's world closely parrallels that of reality...


It saddens me though to know that ya'll actually think that this world exists (ed). Grant it Tolkien did an uncomparable job in writing his story, yet for one to thimk that it exists is beyond me.
This I say because of my faith in the Bible not the Silmarillion.


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## Branwen (Jan 18, 2002)

...Atticus,I absolutely agree with ya.I mean about the pain...I really believe Middle-earth is(was) real,but it's so painful not to be able to get there.Everytime I read the LotR or any other Tolkien's book I feel it just cannot be a simple fantasy,it's GOTTA be true!And by my heart I know it is-but where is the gate to the Middle-earth?....
Yes,it's childich...But I can't get over it,and I don't want to,in fact...


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## Lantarion (Jan 18, 2002)

Wow, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to change your whole point of view...
And Aiwendil: Uh, where did I mention I actually thought Middle-earth existed? I won't critisize anybody for doing so, but I personally think (as I clearly mentioned) that it is a great **myth**: not true, but a marvelous, touching and amazing (and often epic) tale.


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## Aiwendil (Jan 18, 2002)

*Sorry there Pontifex*

I did not mean to infer that you believed it existed, just that I thought it unreasonable that others did.


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## Atticus (Jan 18, 2002)

Ya know Aiwendil that kinda hurt, this is something I view as a problem in my life and have trouble coming to terms with. That is kinda like walking up to a recovering alcoholic and cussing them out for their problems and making fun of it, and then taking a drink. Look, Arda and Tolkien's writings are somewhere I would much rather be than here. That is pretty much how I feel. And these books are my escape. i admit I have a problem, albeit a problem I may enjoy basking in.


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## Aiwendil (Jan 19, 2002)

It might of hurt, but if you must know...I had the same problem, Atticus. It took a rude awakening to pull me out of it. And I am greatly relieved that I was brought to reality before it was to late.  
I am a Christian, and an involvement in a false reality was something I could not have in my life. Grant it this isn't a "Christian Rehabilitation Center" so I won't say any thing that could offend you. I don't think I can say anything other than that.
I to enjoy having a world that I can escape to, yet when the world became so much of a reality to me that I did not wish to live on this earth, I realized how drastic that was. It took that to wake me up and I don't ever want to go back to that state. I hope you'll take what I say as from one who had the same problem (maybe to a lesser degree), but I encourage you to live in reality. As Tolkien just wanted to entertain, not bring people away from the truth.


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## Evenstar (Jan 19, 2002)

Atticus- Wow, I know what you mean exactly. I feel that way when I am in the middle of reading the books and it's hard to return to the sometimes dull reality. I know logically that ME is not real yet I try to keep a part of me believing that somewhere out there there is a place like ME if only because I just like the world better that way. An well I have never considered myelf an extremly "logical" person. I've always liked the fantastical explanatioons better.


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## Branwen (Jan 19, 2002)

exactly,exactly,exactly!!!!!!!


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## BluestEye (Jan 20, 2002)

*If we started to talk about this topic...*

I believe that Tolkien's world exists at another parallel reality, or existed some thousands years ago on this Earth, but none of us can prove it now, and it doesn't realy matter to us now. To tell you the truth - I don't think about it so much. It is pointless, because that world is not here right now. What _is_ important is that we enjoy reading these books and we have fun talking about it with each other.  
It is sad that Tolkien's world doesn't exist in our time and space, but a thing we can do about it is bringing its magic to our lives. I believe that Magic still exists, though most of us have forgotten what Magic realy is. I believe that Faeries still exist, and strange creatures in the Forests and Mountains as well. We heard about the Yeti (Bigfoot) in the Tibet, the monster of Loch-Ness... Our mythology is full of "Historical" accounts about monsters and magicusers. The Chinese tell about Dragons. We read about the Jew-Clerics and Jesus Christ who cured other people only with the touch of their hands. Now we know about Rei-Ki and other kinds of Healing by Hands methods. Magic is still in the air. It never went away. It is only up to us to learn how to use it again. We only have to believe that we can do it.

BluestEye


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## Lemuria (Dec 15, 2021)

BluestEye said:


> *If we started to talk about this topic...*
> 
> I believe that Tolkien's world exists at another parallel reality, or existed some thousands years ago on this Earth, but none of us can prove it now, and it doesn't realy matter to us now. To tell you the truth - I don't think about it so much. It is pointless, because that world is not here right now. What _is_ important is that we enjoy reading these books and we have fun talking about it with each other.
> It is sad that Tolkien's world doesn't exist in our time and space, but a thing we can do about it is bringing its magic to our lives. I believe that Magic still exists, though most of us have forgotten what Magic realy is. I believe that Faeries still exist, and strange creatures in the Forests and Mountains as well. We heard about the Yeti (Bigfoot) in the Tibet, the monster of Loch-Ness... Our mythology is full of "Historical" accounts about monsters and magicusers. The Chinese tell about Dragons. We read about the Jew-Clerics and Jesus Christ who cured other people only with the touch of their hands. Now we know about Rei-Ki and other kinds of Healing by Hands methods. Magic is still in the air. It never went away. It is only up to us to learn how to use it again. We only have to believe that we can do it.
> ...


I am late to this conversation, but better late than never. I am overwhelmingly touched by these words and conversation. It’s very easy to get lost in a world of magic, grace and a longing to do good that will benefit all. I came upon this thread with a search that asks, “if Tolkien had ever claimed to have channeled his ideas?” Nikola Tesla and Albert Einstein admitted freely that their ideas came from channeling the universe. 
While I do believe this current civilization may be about 8000 years old, I do not believe it is the first civilization which has come to pass on planet Earth. Archaeologists have been finding civilizations that go beyond the 12,000 year range, and according to some geologist, the sphinx itself may be several times that age. Beliefs in other realms and times do not have to fly in the face of our spiritual beliefs. In fact, the hope and wonder that these stories give us are no different than the stories the great religious teachers have handed down by allegory and example. 
To know that their lives are not too dear a price to pay for the sake of humanity. To know that our minds are more powerful than most people can possibly imagine. This power exceeds our mere ability to imagine. It enables us to create any life that we decide to live. If you feel a longing for a universe that seems fictional, once it becomes something that is longed for by many, in someways, it is real.
That feeling of longing you have is connected to the feeling of longing that the rest of us have and It strengthens the idea that it may have once been true. Your spirit has free will.
I had a fascination with paleo-anthropology when I was younger, however I could not find a chart that would show the lineage of the hominids that have existed on our planet. That being said, I created one of my own by creating a timetable and appropriately inserting the appearance and extinction of each species. What I found astonished me. Their were at one time, five or six different hominid species existing at once. I immediately thought “it’s just like Lord of the Rings!” (Then I thought why has no one ever charted this out and made it public?) Since then I’ve come to realize there a great many parallels between lost civilizations on this planet and the stories of middle earth.
In India they believed the Yuga Cycles of “the great year” would change the laws of physics in the universe and allow human beings to exist on higher levels of consciousness, giving them the ability to communicate without speech, move without walking and alter the physical universe before them. All this with the intention of their minds. Our souls have been here for much longer than 8000 years. If you can feel Such a strong connection to Tolkien’s stories that you believe Middle Earth once existed, then perhaps that is because, for a large number of us, these stories ring true
....And that is very reassuring


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