# House of Finrod



## Confusticated (Aug 22, 2002)

When Gildor Inglorion meets Frodo he introduces himself as Gildor Inglorion of the house of Finrod...
I don't know about any house of Finrod. I have hunted around a little and found nothing. These are my two favorites elves and I am hoping Gildor could be the son of Finrod... but shatter this if you can.


Anyone?


Here's a related thread: Gildor


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## Ynhockey (Aug 22, 2002)

Yes, he was from the house of Finrod Felagund. I ain't sure if he was his descendant though  anyone know ?

http://www.glywhweb.com/arda is where i got the info about him being in the house of Finrod Felagund.


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## Ravenna (Aug 22, 2002)

Since Finrod, I believe never married, and therefore had no children, it seems unlikely that Gildor is a direct descendant.
Presumably, he is either related in some lesser degree, or is using the term rather as an affiliation, in that he was part of the Noldor who were based with Finrod, rather like a clan basis.


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## Grond (Aug 22, 2002)

This is pretty much an unaswerable question. Clearly the author meant that Gildor was of Finrod's house and yet the good professor never wrote the link that would allow this to happen. As we understand it from the texts, Finrod's house was empty... but was it? Follow this link and you'll see that there are many questions unanswered. This link also gives you the opportunity to download the Third Edition of the Parma Endorian free and it's legal too.

http://www.xenite.org/parma/pe_061.htm
Happy Hunting!!


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## aragil (Aug 23, 2002)

One thing to consider about the 'House' of Finrod- it is described as the only House of the Noldor sporting beautiful blonde hair. As this is usually a genetic trait (unless hair bleach was invented by that master craftsman Feanor), I'd assume there's some form of relatedness between Finrod and Gildor, both of whom have that rather unique Blonde Hair. However, (as might have been pointed out in Grond's link), Tolkien was pretty unequivocal about Finrod's marital status- he wouldn't marry because the woman he loved was a Vanyar who stayed back in Valinor.


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## Confusticated (Aug 23, 2002)

It is said that Gildor has blonde hair? I can't believe I would not remember that detail....I thought his hair Might be golden because of the Finrod relation but was not sure...Where did you read this of his blonde hair? LOTR? Or elsewhere? I'm heading off to Grond's link after I get some sleep....any information by anyone else would be welcomed too.

Thanks very much for the responses


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## Tar-Elenion (Aug 23, 2002)

Gildor has blond hair? Cite please.
Also JRRT equivocated quite a bit on Finrod's (meaning Felagund) marital status. At one point Galadriel and Gil-galad were both his children. In one note Celebrimbor was noted to have "grown to love" Finrod and Finrod's wife in Nargothrond, in another note Finrod was said to have "left his wife in Valinor and had no children exile". Then of course there are the notes where he had no wife.


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## aragil (Aug 24, 2002)

But I believe the last thought (that Finrod never married) was repeated several times, and was, well, his last thought on the subject. Don't remember 100%, but I thought in 'Three is Company' it said that the last elf 'turned his golden head' or something to that effect. I don't have me books right now, but if someone else could cite the passage?


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## Hama (Aug 24, 2002)

I think that by the House of Finrod, he may be saying that he was an elf of Nargothrond, and was therefore under Finrod's crown, as opposed to, let's say Turgon or Fingon. Finrod certainly did not have a wife and children, and his nearing living relatives at the time of the lord of the ring were Galadriel, Arwen and Elrond.


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## Grond (Aug 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Hama _
> *I think that by the House of Finrod, he may be saying that he was an elf of Nargothrond, and was therefore under Finrod's crown, as opposed to, let's say Turgon or Fingon. Finrod certainly did not have a wife and children, and his nearing living relatives at the time of the lord of the ring were Galadriel, Arwen and Elrond. *


Good Hama, we have already cited where the good Professor wrote of Finrod's marital relationships in several different ways. There is also a suggestion that Finrod was "rehoused" by Mandos and then married his Vanyar sweetheart in Valinor and that Gildor is their offspring. In the Sil it states in a concise manner that Finrod was childless, in HoMe it gives another story.


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## Gil-Galad (Aug 24, 2002)

Grond what story is given in HoMe,cause in BG is impossible to find HoMe in english or bulgarian either.


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## Gildor the Elf (Aug 25, 2002)

I don't know...


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## Tar-Elenion (Aug 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> But I believe the last thought (that Finrod never married) was repeated several times, and was, well, his last thought on the subject.


In an alteration to the QS manuscript Inglor (ie Finrod Felagund) had a wife (named Meril once) and Gil-galad was their son (see WotJ pg. 242).
In an early version of the Tale of Years of the 2nd Age, Galadriel and Gil-galad were both his children (see PoME pgs.174 and 185).
In the Grey Annals (year 102) Inglor had no wife (1951).
In the 1959 genealogies Orodreth was Finrod's son, this was altered to Finrod having no child and having left his wife in Aman (PoME pg. 350).
In the 1965 note that makes Gil-galad Orodreth's son Finrod is said to have left is wife in Valinor and to have had no children in exile.
In a check copy of the LotR 2nd Edition, JRRT wrote that Celebrimbor had grown to love Finrod and his wife in Nargothrond (see PoME pg. 317). There is no date given for this note, but the 2nd Edition came out in 1966, so it is dated to then or later (there is thus a _possibility_ that it is later than the Shibboleth, though not necessarily likely).
In the Shibboleth (1968) Finrod has no wife (PoME pg. 345)



> Don't remember 100%, but I thought in 'Three is Company' it said that the last elf 'turned his golden head' or something to that effect. I don't have me books right now, but if someone else could cite the passage?



"...starlight glimmering on their hair and in their eyes... as the last Elf passed he turned and looked towards the hobbits and laughed."


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## Confusticated (Aug 31, 2002)

> They buried the body of Felagund upon the hill-top of his own isle, and it was clean again; and the green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained inviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under destroying seas. But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.




What exactly does this mean? The Gildor Finrod connection may never be known but What about Finrod's life??? It sounds to me that he was given a body again. How else could be walk with his father? Maybe in Aman the living Elves can walk with the dead? Oh brother...


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## Grond (Aug 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Confusticated _
> *
> I am not yet to this point in the book but I happend upon it.
> I just spotted this and it nearly took my breath away, or maybe it even did. I somehow forgot this after the first time I read the Silmarillion? I can not figure how though. I clearly remember the sentence about his grave being taken by the sea.
> ...


You must remember that the Elves are tied to the bounds of Middle-earth. They may not leave it as Man does. When they die they are free to seek the Halls of Mandos and most do. The quote you cite simply states that Finrod has died and his "soul" has returned to Valinor. One can assume from the quote that Mandos has allowed Finrod to "rehouse" his spirit in an Earthly form and he walks again with his father in Eldamar. 

I'll try and look up the information where it speaks of the rehousing of the Fea (or Fei) something like that. Maedhros will help me out here.

(Whistles for Maedhros' help.)


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## Confusticated (Aug 31, 2002)

Rehouse, that is the word I was looking for. Anything posted by anyone (with sources) would be great. My goal is to find out if he could have become a father after this rehousing.
Finrod's last words to Beren...



> But when the wolf came for Beren, Felagund put forth all his power, and burst his bonds; and he wrestled with the werewolf, and slew it with his hands and teeth; yet he himself was wounded to the death. Then he spoke to Beren, saying: 'I go now to my long rest in the timeless halls *beyond* the seas and the Mountains of Aman. It will be long ere I am seen among the Noldor again; and it may be that we shall not meet a second time in death of life, for the fates of our kindreds are apart. Farewell!' He died then in the dark, in Tol-in-Gaurhoth, whose great tower he himself had built. Thus King Finrod Felagund, fairest and most beloved of the house of Finwë, redeemed his oath; but Beren mourned beside him in despair.



So that's what Finrod beleived. Would this rehousing be the same thing ment by Finrod when he speaks of being seen among the Noldor again?


OKAY, In short, what is the difference between an Elf that has been rehoused and one that still lives?...that's all I need for now, the rest I can figure out later. This is just to quench my curiousity for now.


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## Grond (Aug 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Confusticated _
> *...OKAY, In short, what is the difference between an Elf that has been rehoused and one that still lives?...that's all I need for now, the rest I can figure out later. This is just to quench my curiousity for now. *


Nothing really. When an Elf is given a new body (rehoused so to speak) he becomes a living, walking, breathing Elf just like all the rest. That is exactly what happened to Glorfindel. He fought in Gondolin and killed a Balrog and was vanquished in the process. After 1000 years in the Halls of Mandos, Manwe and Mandos felt he would be of use in Middle-earth to help in the War with Sauron. He was rehoused in an identical body and sent back over on a ship with an old buddy of his by the name of Olorin/Mithrandir/Gandalf. The rest is history, so to speak.

And to answer your question, Finrod could walk with his father and remarry and father other children. Like Gandalf, his new body was just as good, if not better, than his old body.


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## Confusticated (Oct 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole in the thread "High elves"_
> *
> At this time Tolkien started writing the first chapters of FOTR. We read
> These all maybe not be that important to most, but in case someone wondered… *


They are important to me, but I am still not sure what to make of all of this.
It its true that when Gildor Inglorion's name was established that Finrod was the name of Finarfin and that his son (later felagund) was named Inglor.
I think that at the time when he first wrote of Gildor Inglorion he intended that _ Early Finrod/Later Finarfin_ be his grandfather which explains "house of Finrod"....and that Gildor be the son of _Inglor/ the later Finrod Felagund_


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## gate7ole (Oct 6, 2002)

Confusticated I didn't know you had started a thread on this very matter. I'll move the discussion from the other thread here.
I'll repeat my course of thought.
Tolkien didn't change the name probably because he wanted to be restricted to the most essential changes and this one was not. Whether Gildor comes from Finarfin's or Finrod's house, it means that he is a high-Elf. So, he let it as it was first printed. He may didn't want to confuse the readers with all these nomenclature changes


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## Confusticated (Mar 1, 2003)

*back to my special thread*

From It's all in the family: The Finweans By Michael Martinez:



> How could Gildor be an Exile if he was born after Finrod was restored to life? The answer to that question is simple: any of the children of the Noldor who went into exile, and who were living in Middle-earth, would be Exiles (a sub-group of the Noldor) as much as they were still Noldor.



Does anyone disagree with this?

Mr. Martinez also says:


> If he is a descendant of Finrod, though he might originally have been a son of Finrod, his name as preserved in the canon of The Lord of the Rings implies *there must be an Inglor*, who could perhaps be a son of Finrod and Amarie born in Valinor after Finrod was restored to life. But such speculations, lacking any textual support, go no further.


I agree, there must be an Inglor.

I see this as the hardest proof that Gildor is not the son of Finrod.


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## jallan (Mar 2, 2003)

One must remember also that in the early "Fall of Gondolin" there were thirteen Elvish Houses in Gondolin, one of them being the House of the King, one being the House of the Wing, which was Tuor’s house.

Tuor was a man, so the member's of his house could not be his relatives.

From _Unfinished Tales_, “Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin”:


> And Voronwë cast back his hood, and his face shone in the ray, hard and clear, as if graven in stone; and Tuor marvelled to see its beauty. Then he spoke proudly, saying: ‘Know you not whom you see? I am Voronwë son of Aranwë of the House of Fingolfin.


Neither Voronwë or Aranwë appear in any genealogy of the royal families of the Elves, so this apparently only means that Voronwë or Aranwë was one of the followers of Fingolfin.

This other meaning of “house” means that Gildor’s father Inglor, in Tolkein’s revised genealogies, now becomes a member of the House of Finrod in this other sense, not the son of Finrod as he would orginally have been.

We are presumably to imagine Gildor and his companions as mostly Elves who once dwelt in Nargothrond, but not necessarily mostly closely related to Finrod.


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## Confusticated (Mar 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jallan _
> *We are presumably to imagine Gildor and his companions as mostly Elves who once dwelt in Nargothrond, but not necessarily mostly closely related to Finrod. *


This is what I believe now.

Until recently I had held out hope that the two could be related, and no matter how far fetched the idea might seem, no one could convince me that it was an impossible thing.

As might be noticed by some, I have learned quite a bit since I opened this thread, but last week while reading about Glorfindel and Galdor in PoMe, it just hit me: Changing Finrod's name back to Inglor just to eplainin Gildor does not feel to me, like someone that would ever have been done, and especially when Gildor could have been eplained as an elf of Nargothrond with distant or no relation to Finrod.

I suppose that Inglor is competely open for our imaginations, I somehow imagine that he died in an act of heroism during the first age, but he really could have been anywhere at anytime.


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