# What if Beren and Luthien had taken all three Silmarils?



## Snaga (Sep 25, 2005)

Another 'what if' to ponder....

Beren attempted to take all three Silmarils from Morgoth's crown, but his knife broke, and Morgoth stirred in his slumber. So Beren and Luthien fled, leaving the other two behind.

But what if they had taken all three?


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## Hammersmith (Sep 25, 2005)

Assuming the question is "what if they had stolen all three and they had gotten away with it". As they barely escaped with one, I think a more ambitious theft would have left Carcharoth with that much more of a stomach ache and Beren and Luthien's various body parts strewn across Nargathrond.

If they had by some quirk of fate escaped, Morgoth's power would certainly have been dimmed, as he would no longer be in a position of defence. There would be no reason to assail him and so the elves would not seek to do so. However, I am of the opinion that Beren in his diplomacy and kindheartedness would have distributed the gems amongst the Sons of Feanor, Thingol and any other friendly party seeking after them.

While this would be seen as a compromise, it would set these nations at each others throats far worse than before. Morgoth's position of initial disadvantage would be reversed, and he may even have recaptured all or some of the jewels, with the death toll massive and the return of the Vala delayed, maybe for centuries.


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## Arvedui (Sep 26, 2005)

I think that we still would have seen that the Silmarils would have ended as they did: one in the sky, one in the sea, and one buried in the earth.

How they would have gotten there would be the BIG question, though.


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## Snaga (Sep 26, 2005)

I am very uncertain that Beren would have yielded any Silmarils to the sons of Feanor after the assault of Curufin and Celegorm. I wonder if he would not have given all three to Thingol in scorn. But then the Sons of Feanor would have descended in wrath upon Doriath. Would the Girdle of Melian proven stronger than the Oath of Feanor?


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## Thorondor_ (Sep 28, 2005)

> Would the Girdle of Melian proven stronger than the Oath of Feanor?


I think so: "the girdle of Melian, that none thereafter could pass against her will or the will of king Thingol, unless one should come with a power greater than that of Melian the maia (Of the sindar)". I doubt that any elf was a match for the power of Melian.


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## Inderjit S (Sep 28, 2005)

Perhaps there was no Elf who could match Melian, but fate was more than her match, and Thingol came under Mandos's doom as soon as he asked Beren to get the Silmaril, so I guess some sort of destruction may have ensued-perhaps Thingol would have fought the Feanorians outside Doriath, or perhaps their oath would have slept for a while as it did-but then again Celegorm and Curufin vowed to come upon Doriath if the jewel wasn't yielded to them and they came victorious from the Nirnaeth.


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