# Questions concerning Legolas, Aragorn and Gandalf the White.



## Gandalf White (Oct 31, 2002)

*Questions, questions*

Ok, so what if I'm too lazy to dig these out? 

1. Did Legolas really fight in the first battle against Sauron, when Isildur cut the ring from his finger? (If so, where is this told?)

2. How old is Aragorn. I seem to remember him being 75, but I can't find it. (I'm having an argument over this, so please present your proof)  

3. Is it true that Gandalf the White cannot be killed by orcs or such? I remember him saying "their are no weapons here that can hurt me" during Helm's Deep, but I cannot find the reference. (I'm having an argument over this one too!)

Thanks for all your help!


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## Grond (Oct 31, 2002)

1) Legolas' age is never mentioned in any of Tolkien's works. It is unclear (but doubtful) he fought in the Battle of the Last Alliance as you would think he would have been mentioned. His grandfather Oropher died in that Alliance, leading his Silvan Elves against Sauron in the first assault. Thranduil then led the survivors back to Mirkwood after the war had ended. This is spoken of in the Unfinished Tales. 

2) Appendix B of the Lord of the Rings gives Aragorns birthday as March 1, 2931. The War of the Ring ended on March 25, 3019. On that date Aragorn would have been 88 years old.

3) Gandlaf the White made the following statement to Aragorn, Gimli and Aragorn in Fanghorn Forest.


> _from The Two Towers, The White Rider_
> ...He stepped down from the rock, and picking up his grey cloak wrapped it about him: it seemed as if the sun had been shining, but now was hid in cloud again. 'Yes, you may still call me Gandalf,' he said, and the voice was the voice of their old friend and guide. 'Get up, my good Gimli! No blame to you, and no harm done to me. Indeed my friends, *none of you have any weapon that could hurt me.* Be merry! We meet again. At the turn of the tide. The great storm is coming, but the tide has turned.'


Does that cover all your questions?


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## Gandalf White (Oct 31, 2002)

Aaah. Yes, yes. Very good. Much thanks. 

Still a little doubtful about Legolas (my friend sounded very sure, and they said Peter Jackson said Legolas was in the battle, but what would he know)  

But otherwise I have won every argument, thanks to you!


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## Anamatar IV (Oct 31, 2002)

I thought that Legolas was as old as 500 times the leaves fell from the trees. Meaning 500 years old. Meaning nowhere NEAR the last alliance battle. Youve gotten numero 2 and Im really not sure about #3. Does that mean that gandalf could not be killed by anything? grond?


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## Grond (Oct 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *I thought that Legolas was as old as 500 times the leaves fell from the trees. Meaning 500 years old. Meaning nowhere NEAR the last alliance battle. Youve gotten numero 2 and Im really not sure about #3. Does that mean that gandalf could not be killed by anything? grond? *


 Where did you get the 500 times the leaves fell from the trees quote? Nothing short of Sauron could defeat Gandalf in his reborn White stature. It says this in the Letters I think. I'll have to find it.


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## Gandalf White (Oct 31, 2002)

Oooooh. Please find it. I didn't know that. I thought it merely meant orcs. That would be soooo cool. 

Still not sure about Legolas though.


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## Anamatar IV (Oct 31, 2002)

I am VERY sure Legolas said this somewhere. Like I have witnessed 500 TERMS OF FALLING LEAVES or something like that.

EDIT---Caps lock was on wasnt it.


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## Grond (Oct 31, 2002)

Maybe you're thinking about the movie Anamatar. That ain't from the books. He does say this


> from The Fellowship of the Ring, Lothlorien[/i]
> Legolas stirred in his boat.`Nay, time does not tarry ever,' he said; `but change and growth is not in all things and places alike. For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves. The passing seasons are but ripples ever repeated in the long long stream. Yet beneath the Sun all things must wear to an end at last.'


Oops! Found it. Here Legolas is speaking of the Reign of the Lords of Rohan and is not speaking of his age.


> _from The Two Towers, The King of the Golden Hall_
> 'Look!' said Gandalf. 'How fair are the bright eyes in the grass!
> Evermind they are called, simbelmynl in this land of Men, for they blossom in all the seasons of the year, and grow where dead men rest. Behold! we are come to the great barrows where the sires of Thjoden sleep.' 'Seven mounds upon the left, and nine upon the right,' said Aragorn. 'Many long lives of men it is since the golden hall was built.'
> 
> *'Five hundred times have the red leaves fallen in Mirkwood in my home since then,' said Legolas, 'and but a little while does that seem to us.'*


This speaks of the length of time the Kings of Rohan have been in power.... nothing more. It does not address Legolas' age.


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## Carantalath (Nov 1, 2002)

I was reading my Teen People magazine the other day and there was an article about Orlando Bloom in there. They said that Legolas was between 2,000 and 3,000 years old (I don't remember the exact number). I don't know how they would know though, but I've heard other people say that he was around that age too.


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## Grond (Nov 1, 2002)

That is an age picked out of thin air by PJ. I assume that PJ assumed Legolas was born after the War of the Last Alliance but while the movie does give him an actual age... Tolkien's books (to my knowledge and extensive research through Hob, LotR, Sil, UT and HoMe do not give him an age anywhere.)


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## Niniel (Nov 1, 2002)

I remember a dicussion a while ago when I asked how old Legolas was. Nobody was really sure, but it turned out he was about 2900 years old. Meaning that he was at least born after the last alliance, so he can not have fought in this battle.


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## Gandalf White (Nov 1, 2002)

Argh. This is annoying me.  

My friend said the proof that Legolas was in the Last Alliance battle was in Unfinished Tales. She said it even gave an account of his ordeal. I don't have the book, though, so if someone else could check.....

My instinct tells me he wasn't.


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## Grond (Nov 1, 2002)

It's so nice to be listened to. I have already stated to one and all that there is no such information given anywhere in any of the books. I have researched this thoroughly. There is an account of Thranduil's involvement in the Last Alliance and of his father Oropher who was slaughtered by Sauron's forces in the first wave.


> _from Unfinished Tales, Appendix B - The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves_
> Despite the desire of the Silvan Elves to meddle as little as might be in the affairs of the Noldor and Sindar, or of any other peoples, Dwarves, Men, or Orcs, Oropher had the wisdom to foresee that peace would not return unless Sauron was overcome. He therefore assembled a great army of his now numerous people, and joining with the lesser army of Malgalad of Lórien he led the host of the Silvan Elves to battle. The Silvan Elves were hardy and valiant, but ill-equipped with armour or weapons in comparison with the Eldar of the West; also they were independent, and not disposed to place themselves under the supreme command of Gil-galad. Their losses were thus more grievous than they need have been, even in that terrible war. Malgalad and more than half his following perished in the great battle of the Dagorlad, being cut off from the main host and driven into the Dead Marshes. Oropher was slain in the first assault upon Mordor, rushing forward at the head of his most doughty warriors before Gil-galad had given the signal for the advance. Thranduil his son survived, but when the war ended and Sauron was slain (as it seemed) he led back home barely a third of the army that had marched to war.


Legolas is not mentioned anywhere in the book that relates to his age. He is mentioned in reference to the LotR only.


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## Gandalf White (Nov 1, 2002)

I'm glad you like being listened to.  

Thanks for the info.


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## Maeglin (Nov 1, 2002)

If anyone wants to know the exact ages of aragorn at different times I did all the math and what not and put in the "how old is aragorn?" thread


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## Anamatar IV (Nov 1, 2002)

yes grond that was the line I thought of. But also in the fellowship of the ring Elrond says this:



> He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-Galad only Cirdan stood, and I



What this says to me is that by Gil-Galad there were only 2 elves. And since Legolas was a prince I would assume that he would be in the front lines of the battle, close to the elven kings, so Legolas was at the least NOT in the battle with gil-galad and elendil.



 Youre not the only one who can look up quotes grond


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## Ariana Undomiel (Nov 1, 2002)

I don't know why have always thought this, but for some reason I was always under the impression that Legolas was somewhere between 2000 and 3000 years old. 

~Ariana


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## Grond (Nov 1, 2002)

> _from The Lord of the Rings - Official Movie Guide by Brian Sibley, page 44_
> ..."As for Legolas," adds Orlando Bloom, "he has seen the world. He is incredibly experienced in many ways. Mind you, so he should be - after all, he is 2,931 years old!"


Notice this is from the creative mind of Peter Jackson. There is no record in any of the books of Legolas, son of Thranduil's, age.


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## Elbereth (Nov 1, 2002)

I have a question for you all:

When was King Aragorn (Elessar's) son, Eldarion born, and was he old enough to take the throne, when Aragorn died in 1540 SR? 

I have been trying to figure this out for a while, but I haven't found anything...maybe one of you may know.


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## Grond (Nov 2, 2002)

> _from The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A, The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen_
> 
> "Not before my time," he answered. "For if I will not go now, then I must soon go perforce. *And Eldarion our son is a man full-ripe for kingship."*
> 
> Then going to the House of the Kings in the Silent Street, Aragorn laid him down on the long bed that had been prepared for him. There he said farewell the Eldarion, and gave into his hands the winged crown of Gondor and the sceptre of Arnor; and then all left him save Arwen, and she stood alone by his bed. And for all her wisdom and lineage she could not forbear to plead with him to stay yet for a while. She was not yet weary of her days, and thus she tasted the bitterness of the mortality that she had taken upon her.


I've looked everywhere and I can't find an exact date for Eldarion's birth; however, Aragorn makes the statement that Eldarion is ripe for the kingship. I would wildly guestimate that ripe for the kingship would be between 50 - 80 years of age. That would have placed his birthdate sometime between the years of 40 to 70 Fourth Age Reckoning or 1461 - 1491 Shire Reckoning. Just a guess, mind you.


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## Elbereth (Nov 2, 2002)

Thank you Grond! I don't know how I could have missed that! 

And I agree with your assumption...that is what I guestimated as well...however, I was curious to know if Tolkien had mentioned Eldarion's age in any of his books (ie: the Middle Earth series...which I have not read yet)


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## Grond (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elbereth _
> *Thank you Grond! I don't know how I could have missed that!
> 
> And I agree with your assumption...that is what I guestimated as well...however, I was curious to know if Tolkien had mentioned Eldarion's age in any of his books (ie: the Middle Earth series...which I have not read yet) *


 I did a quick document search on all the HoMe volumes and found no references to Eldarion in any of the indexes. That is as far as I've gone. (Oh Yea! I forgot. I also looked in UT, Silmarillion and LotR.) The only references to Eldarion I could find were in the Appendix I quoted.


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## Gandalf White (Nov 2, 2002)

Can someone tell me where the 'how old is Aragorn' thread is?


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## Grond (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gandalf White _
> *Can someone tell me where the 'how old is Aragorn' thread is?  *


 The title of this thread is Questions, questions

We have already answered all of yours so would you like me to keep the thread open for other questions/discussions or close it. I can certainly close it if you wish.


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