# The Nazgul



## ArAgOrN (Nov 28, 2002)

here's my question:
the nine riders, do the all get the winged horses or is it only a couple? if you can help thanks!


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 28, 2002)

I don't have any quotes to support this,but then again I don't think any evidence exists. Perhaps there is only some vague sentence like "The Nazgul were circling in the air" in ROTK.
First the Nine all had horses but then those perished and they were given winged beasts so they would be faster and thus more efficient.


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## Húrin Thalion (Nov 29, 2002)

Didn't Pippin see all nine flying against him when looking into the palantír? Otherwise I do not know. 

Welcome to the forum ArAgOrN


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## Lantarion (Nov 29, 2002)

Each Nazgûl received his own winged beast (not a winged horse!! ). Olny the Witch-King's steed is talked about in more detail.


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## Eriol (Nov 29, 2002)

I think that all (eight surviving) Nazgul flew to Orodruin after Frodo claimed the Ring for himself... and surely the beasts had mothers and fathers, i.e., there were more than nine.


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## Killabee3 (Nov 29, 2002)

in thought quite a few of the Nazgul got destroyed when crossing the river to get in to lorein?


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## Thorin (Nov 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Killabee3 _
> *in thought quite a few of the Nazgul got destroyed when crossing the river to get in to lorein? *



It was to Rivendell, not Lorien, and the Nazgul were not destroyed. They lost their physical form. Gandalf himself said that the wraiths could not easily be destroyed because their fate was tied up with the ring. As long as the ring existed, they existed. The nine rings they wore were tied to Sauron's one ring. That is how he enslaved them to begin with.


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## Niniel (Nov 29, 2002)

Eriol, it doesn't say that there were 8 Nazgul that rode to Orodruin when Frodo destroyed the Ring. But I guess that if one of them was killed, it would have been mentioned somewhere.


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## mr underhill (Nov 29, 2002)

yeah err didnt merry or pippin ( i have a short memory ) kill the witch-king?


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## Eriol (Nov 29, 2002)

> Eriol, it doesn't say that there were 8 Nazgul that rode to Orodruin when Frodo destroyed the Ring. But I guess that if one of them was killed, it would have been mentioned somewhere.



I think you are forgetting the Witch-King, my friend. 

I clearly remember that when Sauron realized his peril, the Nazgul abandoned the field of battle and flew to Orodruin with all their speed... oh, I see your point -- it doesn't say there were eight _on the field of battle_. Well, what I was trying to say is that they all had flying mounts. Even if they were not actually on the battle (some could be hanging with Sauron in Barad-dûr, I'll have to check on that), all of them who had mounts flew to Orodruin.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 1, 2002)

If there were eight left after Eowyn killed the Witch-King, then what was the thing that Legolas killed on Anduin? Was that not a Nazgul's steed? Maybe it was just flying by itself...


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 1, 2002)

It doesn't necessarily mean that Legolas killed the winged steed. He could have just wounded it.


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## Khamul (Dec 1, 2002)

When you think about it, could these same steeds be similiar to the horses of Valinor given to the Rohirrim?


> Thus spoke a forgotten poet long ago in Rohan, recalling how tall and fair was Eorl the Young, who rode down out of the North; and there were wings upon the feet of his steed, Felaróf, father of horses. So men still sing in the evening.'


They could have been perverted to the uses of Sauron, or even back to the days of Melkor.



> In a low hesitating voice Pippin began again, and slowly his words grew clearer and stronger. 'I saw a dark sky, and tall battlements,' he said. 'And tiny stars. It seemed very far away and long ago, yet hard and clear. Then the stars went in and out-they were cut off by things with wings. Very big, I think, really; but in the glass they looked like bats wheeling round the tower. I thought there were nine of them. One began to fly straight towards me, getting bigger and bigger. It had a horrible – no, no! I can't say.


Pippin only saw one of the Nazgul in the Palantir, before speaking to Sauron himself.


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## Mablung (Dec 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dáin Ironfoot I _
> *If there were eight left after Eowyn killed the Witch-King, then what was the thing that Legolas killed on Anduin? Was that not a Nazgul's steed? Maybe it was just flying by itself... *





> It doesn't necessarily mean that Legolas killed the winged steed. He could have just wounded it.



The steed was actually killed and here I quote from The Two Towers "The White Rider" chapter from Gandalf. "You only slew his steed. It was a good deed; but the Rider was soon horsed again." It may look like he is talking of a horse but in the overall context in which Im too lazy to type out they are talking about the winged ones clearly.


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## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 2, 2002)

Right... but was this steed mounted by a Nazgul at the time, or was it flying around by itself? Actually, I guess this is a question that can't be answered with facts, only speculation.


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## Mablung (Dec 2, 2002)

Well it says that the Rider was soon horsed again meaning he had to lose his mount in the first place granted he could have sent his mount ahead I however think it more likely that he was on it.


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## aragil (Dec 2, 2002)

> _from Letter 246 to Mrs Eileen Elgar, discussing the *eight* remaining Nazgul if they had confronted Frodo at Mt. Doom_
> The situation as between Frodo with the Ring and the Eight might be compared to that of a small brave man armed with a devastating weapon, faced by eight savage warriors of great strength and agility armed with poisoned blades.


In the text itself there is a footnote explaining that there are only eight because the Witch-King was made inconsequential at Pelannor. I'd say that this is pretty good evidence that Tolkien intended all the remaining eight Nazgul to be mounted on winged steeds and able to ride to Orodruin, as Eriol suggested.
Before Sting can start a "Balrogs and Horses: which have bigger Wings?" thread, here is yet another quote from Letters:


> _From Letter 211 To Rhona Beare_
> Pterodactyl. Yes and no. I did not intend the steed of the Witch-King to be what is now called a 'pterodactyl', and often is drawn (with rather less shadowy evidence than lies behind many monsters of the new and fascinating semi-scientific mythology of the 'Prehistoric'). But obviously it is pterodactylic and owes much to the new mythology, and its description even provides a sort of way in which it could be a last survivor of older geological eras.


I don't think Tolkien is describing a horse with wings here (Rankin/Bass Return of the King had it way wrong).


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## Eriol (Dec 2, 2002)

I could be way off here, but... when we see a winged beast through the eyes of Merry when he is fighting alongside Éowyn, isn't the beast reptilian? I think it is even said something like "a distant relative of the dragons". Gotta check that.


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## aragil (Dec 2, 2002)

> _From Letter 211 To Rhona Beare_
> Pterodactyl. Yes and no. I did not intend the steed of the Witch-King to be what is now called a 'pterodactyl', ... But obviously it is pterodactylic and owes much to the new mythology, and its description even provides a sort of way in which it could be a last survivor of older geological eras.



This is Tolkien himself describing the beast to a fan of the books in _Letters_. I think it pretty well describes the beast as something pterodactylic.


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## Glomund (Dec 13, 2002)

They all had flying steeds, in RotK, before the morrannon, the host of the west sees "all" of the Nazgul gathered together, (all meaning the remaining 8.) hovering like vultures above the towers of the teeth.


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## BlackCaptain (Jan 5, 2003)

They all had flying steeds. But i have another speculation... 

Someone said earlier that they were all bound to the Rings fate, but if I die on Pelenor, how is this possible?

Weve established the fact that they all have winged steeds, but i dont think this is true... If the mightiest of Nazgul can be killed, surely the others can...


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## Gothmog (Jan 7, 2003)

The Nazgul were indeed Bound to the fate of the Rings in that if the One was destroyed then the rest would lose their power and the Nazgul would cease to exist. However, this did not mean that the Nazgul could not be killed in other ways.

In the case of the Lord of the Nazgul it was foretold that "Not by the Hand of Man Would he be destroyed" and So it was. A Hobbit with an sword of the North-kingdom and a woman were needed to do the job.

Had the One Ring not been destroyed then the ring of the Witch-King could have been given to another Man and there would once more have been 9


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## Brent (Jan 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gothmog _
> *The Nazgul were indeed Bound to the fate of the Rings in that if the One was destroyed then the rest would lose their power and the Nazgul would cease to exist. However, this did not mean that the Nazgul could not be killed in other ways.
> 
> In the case of the Lord of the Nazgul it was foretold that "Not by the Hand of Man Would he be destroyed" and So it was. A Hobbit with an sword of the North-kingdom and a woman were needed to do the job.
> ...



Is that so ? I always assumed he was "killed" in the same way as Sauron was "killed" by Elendil and Gil-galad. Right he's dead won't see him for another thousand years good work lady of Rohan Ringwraiths are tough to take out. However given an age or maybe less he'd be back to serve his dark master - because the Nine are tied up with the fate of the one. He was only destroyed when the ring was destroyed.
Hardly matters really.


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## Gothmog (Jan 8, 2003)

Not quite the same thing. Sauron was a powerful Maia and when he made the One Ring he placed in it much of his native power. This meant that while the One existed it held that power and even if his phyical form was destroyed the power would still be there for him to draw on.

In the case of the Nazgul they were Men and the rings gave to them power that they did not possess before. When their bodies were destroyed they would die. It is just that it was very difficult to kill them.


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