# Could the Eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor



## Elu Thingol (May 11, 2002)

It has come to my attention that some believe that Eagles could have flown Frodo into Mordor in a lightning speed dash which would be much easier than having to trek the whole way by foot. I must admit this sounded like a hole in the plot for sure when I first read it. Go see the argument at this website, I am sure it will argue against any thoughts you may first have. http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/eagles.html

Now that you have read these arguments: read my e-mail reply.
I find your scenario very interesting but I have an argument which I think you should respond to that has not yet been posted. I find it safe to say that the one problem with your plan is that Frodo would NOT THROW THE RING INTO THE FIRE. I quote " 'I have come,' he said. 'But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The ring is mine!' And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from Sam's sight." (pg 274 paragraph 4 The Return of the King). The problem with your plan is that you underestimate the power of the ring. You assume that Frodo would be able to throw the ring in because he would not have been in Mordor for that long period of time and it would be a quick descision. These are valid arguments yes, You might say how could I possibly know if he would throw the ring in or not. I have two instances in which both men and hobbits could not throw the ring into the mountain. Frodo could not throw it in at the end of the last book and Isildur could not throw it in after he cut it from Sauron's finger. You also might say that the power of the ring would not have enough time to take over Frodo's mind, but the power of the ring increases steadily as you get closer to the mountain and by the time Frodo got to the mountain it would be at full strength. The effects of the ring on the mind are hard to tell but by the examples in the book it doesn't take a long time before you would not be able to destroy the ring or part with it. The ring is in the book and is a perfectly viable in my argument, just as eagles are in the book and are perfectly viable in your theory. You also might say that the council should have picked the eagles plan, but I think I have a reason the Council may not have considered flying Frodo through the Mountains. By saying the mountains are unable to climb(as stated at the site) means they are probably extremely high. Most people consider Mount Everest almost impossible to climb so I figure these mountains are close. Now Mount Everest is nearly 30,000 ft tall and to fly over it would be relatively easy with a plane. But exposed the environment at such high altitudes one would develope a severe case of hypoxia which would almost certainly make the person faint and might be fatal (too dangerous). The only other alternative is to navigate your way through the Mountains at low altitudes still a bit chilly but hey it wont kill you. The only problem is Mordor is extremely dark and Mountain fog is very common. Without a 5 mile radius range of sight only an experienced flyer of that area could navigate the mountains(Mountain flying for flatlanders). Getting lost is much easier that you think. I conclude that flying through mountains in the dark with a high chance of fog is just an equation for disaster so the council judged it as too much of a risk factor and found it safer to go through by land.

THIS SHOULD DISBAND ANYONE'S FANTASY THAT THE EAGLES COULD HAVE FLOWN FRODO INTO MORDOR


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## Gamil Zirak (May 12, 2002)

The "eagle factor" has been discussed a few times on this forum. One such discussion is at http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4003


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## Eledhwen (May 12, 2002)

I've just looked at the discussion thread pointed to by Gamil Zirak, and I wonder that we're even discussing it, but I can't resist now the question's been asked. First, the eagles are not tame, they turn up when they see a need, so so-one's going to be able to order them on a sortie. Second, the Nazgul's horses were replaced by huge bird-like flying steeds. The Nazgul may not have got back to Mordor in time to ride them if the eagles had whizzed Frodo off straight away, but these creatures will have already existed and could have been sent out against the eagles. Frodo would have been their primary target. If you've ever seen nature shots of birds trying to rob other birds of their prey, you will know what I mean.


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## Elu Thingol (May 12, 2002)

"Sauron would send the flying Nazgûl after the eagles."
It is likely that he would. However, there is a very good change that the Nazgûl would not reach the eagles in time to foil the threat. 

First, the Nazgûl are almost certainly not always airborne; the flying mounts must rest sometimes. It would presumably take at least a few minutes to take the flying mounts out of their stables, harness them, and get the Nazgûl aloft. We are not told where the flying mounts are stabled (Barad-dûr would be a fair guess), but unless it is very close to Mt. Doom, the Nazgûl have little chance of catching up with the eagles unless they chanced to be aloft already. 

Second, the Nazgûl would have to be able to fly faster than the eagles to be able to catch up with them. We are not specifically told whether the eagles are faster than the Nazgûl, but there is at least an oblique suggestion that they are: 


"Then come, and let your brother go with us, and some other of your folk who is most swift! For we have need of speed greater than any wind, outmatching the wings of the Nazgûl." (III, 280) 

Finally, we know that the eagles are willing to attack the flying Nazgûl, because they do so at the last battle before the Black Gate. An entirely possible series of events would be for some of the eagles to attack the Nazgûl and hold them back long enough to allow the eagle carrying the Ringbearer to reach Mt. Doom. 

"The eagles only participate in the struggle against evil when they choose to."
We know that it is possible to ask favors of the eagles. Radagast asks the eagles for help, leading inadvertently to the rescue of Gandalf from Orthanc. Gandalf asks the eagles to fly to Mt. Doom to rescue Frodo and Sam. Galadriel is actually said to be able to command the eagles: 

"Do not let me fall!" I gasped, for I felt life in me again. "Bear me to Lothlórien!" 

"That is indeed the command of the Lady Galadriel who sent me to look for you, he answered." (II, 135) 


"The eagles only participate in the struggle against evil when they choose to."


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## Gamil Zirak (May 12, 2002)

If the eagles flew Frodo to mount doom, the book would be 30 to 40 pages long. It would make for a very boring story.


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## Anarchist (May 12, 2002)

Mithradir2003, I agree with most of your arguments but some are weak. Since the eagles where able to fly Gandalf into Mordor with high speed and get two tired and injured hobbits out of it, could they not fly Frodo into it? Of course Gandalf is a wizard, but he feels just like a human.
I don't find anything wrong about the other arguments, I guess you are correct.


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## Elu Thingol (May 12, 2002)

Read my first posting I show how it would be impossible for the Eagles to fly Frodo to Mordor


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## Elu Thingol (May 13, 2002)

Anarchist sorry I didn't read your argument through. It is true the Eagles rescue Frodo at the very end. However, since Frodo had already thrown the ring into the fire Sauron had already been defeated. This means the entrances to Mordor which had been previously well guarded are no loner well guarded. These entrances are not at high altitude and would be easy for the eagles to fly Gandalf over.


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## Tinuviel (May 17, 2002)

This is very interesting. I encountered this debate on another forum, and was not sure how to answer the claims that the eagles could have "come to the rescue" arguement. Now I have a better defense. Thank you!


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## Oren (May 21, 2002)

Plus that would totally suck! i mean the whole FOTR is almost all about the trek and howthey all became aquainted.


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