# How old is Gandalf? (age)



## WizardKing

Anyone know?


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## Celebthôl

He is as old as Arda if not older i.e. he was born before Arda was created i think!


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## Anamatar IV

I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf.


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## Celebthôl

well he was the wisest of the Maia, is says in the Sil, so i guess he did/was in the song!


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## morello13

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf. *



wait, this is new to me, not all of the order of ainur sang in the themes of eru?


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## Sarah

very


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## Anamatar IV

I mean Gandalf may not have been alive.


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## BlackCaptain

First of all, since Gandalf is a Maiar, he has two ages kindof

Gandalf the Spirit is as old as all of Arda itself.

Gandalf the Wizard is (if he stops living once he gets to Valinor) exactly 2021 years old.


All of the Istari reached middle earth 1000 years into the third age, and since the third age lasted until 3021, when the ringbearers departed from the Gray Havens, do the math, and you get 2021 years of age. 




GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD.
GANDALF'S SPIRIT IS AS OLD AS ARDA


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## Mithlond

I'm pretty sure _all_ the Ainur came into being at the same time, when Eru thought of them.
Never have i got the impression from the Silm that any Ainur came into being at different intervals, they may have descended into Arda at different times, but their presence was still around, elsewhere.

So, what i mean is..i believe Gandalf/Olorin was apart of the music.


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## BlackCaptain

That would mean something...
But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.
This question depends on "wich Gandalf" your talking about.
If you want to know how old the Physical form of Gandalf is, hes 2021. The spirit of Gandalf is as old as Arda.

But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name, so his spirit cant be called Gandalf. He was given the name Gandalf by the inhabatants of Middle-Earth, so since there was no Gandalf before his spirit came to middleearth in the form of a man...


GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD


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## Sirion

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *
> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name,
> 
> GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD *



And what of Olorin, who walked in the woods of Lorien in the Day before days.


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## Mithlond

MorgulKing wrote:


> But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.


Maiar _are_ Ainur. The Ainur consists of the Valar and Maiar.



> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name


_Olorin_ was the Maia spirits name who later became embodied as Gandalf.


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## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking, good job.

If I wanted the answer to this nitpicky question, I would use your figure.


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## Lantarion

That's _Olórin_, with the accent!  

I've always had the impression that only the greatest of the Ainur (ie. the Valar) participated in the Music.. But I suppose it's possible that the Maiar also sang in it.
And I believe that Olórin was born along with the first of the Maiar; he was a Maia of Manwë, wasn't he? So he is actually older than Arda, IMHO.


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## BlackCaptain

FIrst of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though

And no, Maiar are NOT Ainur. Valar, and Ainur are the same, unless my memory is mistaken...

But thats not the point, we can discuss what Ainur, and Valar and MAiar are another time.

The point is, Gandalf was never actually Gandalf until he was given the Body of a Man. Gandalf, therefor, is 2021. Who knows about his spirit... 

And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.

theres like, 4 "Gandalfs" we could be guessing at the age, and Gandalf the Gray/White is simply, about 2000 years old


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## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking said:

"First of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though."

Oops! Gandalf **himself** in LOTR states that he has many names, and one of them was Olorin! ("Olorin I was long ago" he said.)

There is a passage in the Ainulendale or the Valaquenta or something that talks about Olorin, and his time in Valinor, prior to the appearance of the Istari. Not sure about the details though; need my book.  (OOC: O for a Harry Potter wand! Accio Silmarillion!)


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## BlackCaptain

Wizard King, so we can finaly get this strait, can you tell us:
-Did you want to know how old Gandalf the Gray was?
-Or how old his spirit/life force is?

We must know


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## Ghan-buri-ghan

Gandalf obviously has some memory of being a Maia before he became one of the Istari. But he was an Istari only from the time he landed at the Gray Havens. 

I still like Morgulking's calculation.


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## BlackCaptain

Thank you

Thank you.


I find alot of my information, and became the Loremaster that i am, from a certain book.
It's called "Characters from Tolkien" and it has a sketchy picture of Gandalf on the cover. Im sure they sell it at Barnse and Noble, or another major bookseller. They have a map of all of Arda, and illistrations of all of the major events of Arda, from the fasioning of the Great Lamps, to the Flight of the Noldor, to the Destruction of Mordor. And a LOT AND LOT of information concerning all of the creatures, or beings of middle earth, and Aman


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## Beorn

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.*



Other way around. Gandalf was Olorin in physical form...and Maia are lesser Ainur.


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## WizardKing

Anyone know?


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## Celebthôl

He is as old as Arda if not older i.e. he was born before Arda was created i think!


----------



## Anamatar IV

I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf.


----------



## Celebthôl

well he was the wisest of the Maia, is says in the Sil, so i guess he did/was in the song!


----------



## morello13

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf. *



wait, this is new to me, not all of the order of ainur sang in the themes of eru?


----------



## Sarah

very


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## Anamatar IV

I mean Gandalf may not have been alive.


----------



## BlackCaptain

First of all, since Gandalf is a Maiar, he has two ages kindof

Gandalf the Spirit is as old as all of Arda itself.

Gandalf the Wizard is (if he stops living once he gets to Valinor) exactly 2021 years old.


All of the Istari reached middle earth 1000 years into the third age, and since the third age lasted until 3021, when the ringbearers departed from the Gray Havens, do the math, and you get 2021 years of age. 




GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD.
GANDALF'S SPIRIT IS AS OLD AS ARDA


----------



## Mithlond

I'm pretty sure _all_ the Ainur came into being at the same time, when Eru thought of them.
Never have i got the impression from the Silm that any Ainur came into being at different intervals, they may have descended into Arda at different times, but their presence was still around, elsewhere.

So, what i mean is..i believe Gandalf/Olorin was apart of the music.


----------



## BlackCaptain

That would mean something...
But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.
This question depends on "wich Gandalf" your talking about.
If you want to know how old the Physical form of Gandalf is, hes 2021. The spirit of Gandalf is as old as Arda.

But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name, so his spirit cant be called Gandalf. He was given the name Gandalf by the inhabatants of Middle-Earth, so since there was no Gandalf before his spirit came to middleearth in the form of a man...


GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD


----------



## Sirion

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *
> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name,
> 
> GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD *



And what of Olorin, who walked in the woods of Lorien in the Day before days.


----------



## Mithlond

MorgulKing wrote:


> But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.


Maiar _are_ Ainur. The Ainur consists of the Valar and Maiar.



> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name


_Olorin_ was the Maia spirits name who later became embodied as Gandalf.


----------



## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking, good job.

If I wanted the answer to this nitpicky question, I would use your figure.


----------



## Lantarion

That's _Olórin_, with the accent!  

I've always had the impression that only the greatest of the Ainur (ie. the Valar) participated in the Music.. But I suppose it's possible that the Maiar also sang in it.
And I believe that Olórin was born along with the first of the Maiar; he was a Maia of Manwë, wasn't he? So he is actually older than Arda, IMHO.


----------



## BlackCaptain

FIrst of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though

And no, Maiar are NOT Ainur. Valar, and Ainur are the same, unless my memory is mistaken...

But thats not the point, we can discuss what Ainur, and Valar and MAiar are another time.

The point is, Gandalf was never actually Gandalf until he was given the Body of a Man. Gandalf, therefor, is 2021. Who knows about his spirit... 

And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.

theres like, 4 "Gandalfs" we could be guessing at the age, and Gandalf the Gray/White is simply, about 2000 years old


----------



## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking said:

"First of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though."

Oops! Gandalf **himself** in LOTR states that he has many names, and one of them was Olorin! ("Olorin I was long ago" he said.)

There is a passage in the Ainulendale or the Valaquenta or something that talks about Olorin, and his time in Valinor, prior to the appearance of the Istari. Not sure about the details though; need my book.  (OOC: O for a Harry Potter wand! Accio Silmarillion!)


----------



## BlackCaptain

Wizard King, so we can finaly get this strait, can you tell us:
-Did you want to know how old Gandalf the Gray was?
-Or how old his spirit/life force is?

We must know


----------



## Ghan-buri-ghan

Gandalf obviously has some memory of being a Maia before he became one of the Istari. But he was an Istari only from the time he landed at the Gray Havens. 

I still like Morgulking's calculation.


----------



## BlackCaptain

Thank you

Thank you.


I find alot of my information, and became the Loremaster that i am, from a certain book.
It's called "Characters from Tolkien" and it has a sketchy picture of Gandalf on the cover. Im sure they sell it at Barnse and Noble, or another major bookseller. They have a map of all of Arda, and illistrations of all of the major events of Arda, from the fasioning of the Great Lamps, to the Flight of the Noldor, to the Destruction of Mordor. And a LOT AND LOT of information concerning all of the creatures, or beings of middle earth, and Aman


----------



## Beorn

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.*



Other way around. Gandalf was Olorin in physical form...and Maia are lesser Ainur.


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## WizardKing

Anyone know?


----------



## Celebthôl

He is as old as Arda if not older i.e. he was born before Arda was created i think!


----------



## Anamatar IV

I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf.


----------



## Celebthôl

well he was the wisest of the Maia, is says in the Sil, so i guess he did/was in the song!


----------



## morello13

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *I'm not sure about Gandalf but there were Ainu who sang in the themes of Eru...but still I dont know about Gandalf. *



wait, this is new to me, not all of the order of ainur sang in the themes of eru?


----------



## Sarah

very


----------



## Anamatar IV

I mean Gandalf may not have been alive.


----------



## BlackCaptain

First of all, since Gandalf is a Maiar, he has two ages kindof

Gandalf the Spirit is as old as all of Arda itself.

Gandalf the Wizard is (if he stops living once he gets to Valinor) exactly 2021 years old.


All of the Istari reached middle earth 1000 years into the third age, and since the third age lasted until 3021, when the ringbearers departed from the Gray Havens, do the math, and you get 2021 years of age. 




GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD.
GANDALF'S SPIRIT IS AS OLD AS ARDA


----------



## Mithlond

I'm pretty sure _all_ the Ainur came into being at the same time, when Eru thought of them.
Never have i got the impression from the Silm that any Ainur came into being at different intervals, they may have descended into Arda at different times, but their presence was still around, elsewhere.

So, what i mean is..i believe Gandalf/Olorin was apart of the music.


----------



## BlackCaptain

That would mean something...
But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.
This question depends on "wich Gandalf" your talking about.
If you want to know how old the Physical form of Gandalf is, hes 2021. The spirit of Gandalf is as old as Arda.

But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name, so his spirit cant be called Gandalf. He was given the name Gandalf by the inhabatants of Middle-Earth, so since there was no Gandalf before his spirit came to middleearth in the form of a man...


GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD


----------



## Sirion

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *
> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name,
> 
> GANDALF IS 2021 YEARS OLD *



And what of Olorin, who walked in the woods of Lorien in the Day before days.


----------



## Mithlond

MorgulKing wrote:


> But Gandalf isnt an Ainu. He's a Maiar.


Maiar _are_ Ainur. The Ainur consists of the Valar and Maiar.



> But the spirit of Gandalf doesnt have a name


_Olorin_ was the Maia spirits name who later became embodied as Gandalf.


----------



## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking, good job.

If I wanted the answer to this nitpicky question, I would use your figure.


----------



## Lantarion

That's _Olórin_, with the accent!  

I've always had the impression that only the greatest of the Ainur (ie. the Valar) participated in the Music.. But I suppose it's possible that the Maiar also sang in it.
And I believe that Olórin was born along with the first of the Maiar; he was a Maia of Manwë, wasn't he? So he is actually older than Arda, IMHO.


----------



## BlackCaptain

FIrst of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though

And no, Maiar are NOT Ainur. Valar, and Ainur are the same, unless my memory is mistaken...

But thats not the point, we can discuss what Ainur, and Valar and MAiar are another time.

The point is, Gandalf was never actually Gandalf until he was given the Body of a Man. Gandalf, therefor, is 2021. Who knows about his spirit... 

And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.

theres like, 4 "Gandalfs" we could be guessing at the age, and Gandalf the Gray/White is simply, about 2000 years old


----------



## Ghan-buri-ghan

Morgulking said:

"First of all, im sorry, but being the Loremaster i am, ive never herd of Olorion, im sure he existss though."

Oops! Gandalf **himself** in LOTR states that he has many names, and one of them was Olorin! ("Olorin I was long ago" he said.)

There is a passage in the Ainulendale or the Valaquenta or something that talks about Olorin, and his time in Valinor, prior to the appearance of the Istari. Not sure about the details though; need my book.  (OOC: O for a Harry Potter wand! Accio Silmarillion!)


----------



## BlackCaptain

Wizard King, so we can finaly get this strait, can you tell us:
-Did you want to know how old Gandalf the Gray was?
-Or how old his spirit/life force is?

We must know


----------



## Ghan-buri-ghan

Gandalf obviously has some memory of being a Maia before he became one of the Istari. But he was an Istari only from the time he landed at the Gray Havens. 

I still like Morgulking's calculation.


----------



## BlackCaptain

Thank you

Thank you.


I find alot of my information, and became the Loremaster that i am, from a certain book.
It's called "Characters from Tolkien" and it has a sketchy picture of Gandalf on the cover. Im sure they sell it at Barnse and Noble, or another major bookseller. They have a map of all of Arda, and illistrations of all of the major events of Arda, from the fasioning of the Great Lamps, to the Flight of the Noldor, to the Destruction of Mordor. And a LOT AND LOT of information concerning all of the creatures, or beings of middle earth, and Aman


----------



## Beorn

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *And this, Olorin, was probably Gandalf in physical form. Gandalf was just the name he was given by men, and was then used much more often. Gandalf IS Olorin, and... o hell i dont know.*



Other way around. Gandalf was Olorin in physical form...and Maia are lesser Ainur.


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