# Were the Noldor still considered more 'noble' than the Teleri after the exile?



## Mimzy (Jun 11, 2011)

In the early part of the Sil, Tolkien ranks the three Eldarin kindreds by their nobility. Vanyar are considered the most noble of the Elves, Noldor second, and Teleri last.

After the exile back to ME and the Kinslaying though, did the Noldor lose this status of being more noble than the Teleri? Like how Melkor lost his Vala status due to his refusal to give up evil? Or did the Noldor still get to be regarded as being above the Valinorean Teleri in the eyes of the Valar?

Question two: do you think the Noldor were more similar to the Vanyar or the Teleri?


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## Starbrow (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm sure the Noldor who went into exile were considered less noble, but I don't know about the ones who stayed. I wouldn't think that they would lose their nobility.


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## Sulimo (Jul 5, 2011)

It would certainly appear that they were in some ways less "noble". This is evident with Thingol's obvious dominion over Belerieand. However, there was a greatness present in the Noldoran Kings that most of the Teleri lacked. There are at least 4 instances that immediately jump into my mind. 
1.) When Fingon saved Meadhros from the cliffs of Thangorodrim.
2.) When Fingolfin challenged Morgoth in open battle.
3.) Everydeed that Finrod performed.
4,) When Gwindor lead the attack that pressed into the very walls of Angband itself. 

On the comparisons and contrast of the different types of elves I am not as sure. All of the elves were skilled in different areas. Some were more skilled with building and shaping, while others were more skilled with sea faring. My supposition is that the Vanyar were more skilled with matters of the mind, but I could be wrong. 

I think that there was likely much overlap of interest, and they had no qualms interbreeding with each other. Therefore, I think that depending on the individual Noldo it would vary on which other race of elves they connect with better.


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