# A request



## Barliman Butterbur (May 17, 2005)

Now that the RPG sections are re-integrated back into the main thread lists, could we PLEASE have a new symbol on the RPG threads that indicates that the thread has to to with RPGs? That would save the annoying trouble of having to back out of an RPG thread we didn't know was RPG. Thanks in advance,

Barley


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## Confusticated (May 19, 2005)

*Re: New Administrator*

I guess you're talking about clicking over to threads that you see people viewing at _Who's Online_ since anywhere else in the forum you can see where thread comes from before entering. A gamble anyhow.

Oh yeah, and while we're at it, why not put some symbol next to the movie threads so I don't click over thinking they are about the books?

And you know what, stick one on politics for people who don't like those. 

May as well be fair and suggest puting them everywhere so whoever doesn't like something or another can avoid having to waste 2 seconds and a finger movement of their life!

Unbelievable Barliman!


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## Barliman Butterbur (May 19, 2005)

*Re: New Administrator*



Nóm said:


> ...while we're at it, why not put some symbol next to the movie threads so I don't click over thinking they are about the books?
> 
> And you know what, stick one on politics for people who don't like those.
> 
> ...



Oh dear, I set you off again...  Be that as it may — the RPG areas are distinctly different in content and purpose from any of the other threads. On _my_ computer at least, there's even a different banner and even a different skin color, all of which tell me that the RPG area is indeed a different breed of cat — in which I personally do not happen to have an interest.

I'm not sure why my request sent you into orbit, but it still stands, and I think quite reasonable.

Barley


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## Confusticated (May 19, 2005)

*Re: New Administrator*

I don't disagree that the RPGs are unique to one section of this site.

But I don't see how the skin has anything to do with this. For some time we have had an RPG section with TTF skin, it was only expanded and given a new skin recently because the RPG site that grew out of TTF a couple years ago was shut down and the players came back to TTF. So it has nothing to do with the different nature of the section.

And I would bet that the majority of TTF would find political threads in more contrast with the rest of TTF than the RPG section.

And others might think the same about the Green Dragon, or movies area.

All of which are also _unique to one area of the site_.

*p.s.* - Are you at least aware that holding your pointer over the link at _WHo's Online_ will bring up the first 10 words or so on the thread? If not, this might help some.


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## Barliman Butterbur (May 19, 2005)

*Re: New Administrator*

Regardless of your arguments against it — the vehemence of which I am at a loss to understand — I still request a special symbol to indicate an RPG thread. 

Barley


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## Uminya (May 19, 2005)

And why not political threads as well?

I'm with Nóm on this one. No need for it. Just hit the "Back" button on your browser and try again, ye lazy bugger.


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## scotsboyuk (May 19, 2005)

@Barely

I had the same thought, it seems perfectly sensible to me. Is there still such a thing as a 'simple request'?


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## Confusticated (May 20, 2005)

Sure there is such a thing as a simple request. (Though in this case it was orginally suggested in Ithrynluin's new admin thread, not as its own thread... something that I admit did bother me and appearantly bothered someone else too since the suggestion has been split off into its own thread).

What sets me off the most though, is the attitude that threads from a particular area of the forum which is no less valid than the rest of the site, should have special marks next to them in the _Who's Online_ window just because someone who doesn't have interest in those threads doesn't want to accidently visit them. Especialy since visiting strange threads from _Who's Online_ is a gamble regardless which area of the forum they come from.

Or the suggestions that this one section of the forum is somehow alien because Barliman himself has no interest in it.

But like I say, if you do this you may as well mark all the other section's threads as well.

May I suggest a mini icon with the letters _RPG_ for the RPG threads and a little skull with crossbones for Political and Religous topics?

I'm sure others might have suggestions for the other sections of the forum. For movies perhaps we could have a little circle with 'PJ' and a line struck through it.


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## Arthur_Vandelay (May 20, 2005)

I'm using the Green TTF skin, and it's pretty obvious when you blunder into the RPG section that you're not in Kansas anymore


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## scotsboyuk (May 20, 2005)

Nóm said:


> What sets me off the most though, is the attitude that threads from a particular area of the forum which is no less valid than the rest of the site, should have special marks next to them in the _Who's Online_ window just because someone who doesn't have interest in those threads doesn't want to accidently visit them. Especialy since visiting strange threads from _Who's Online_ is a gamble regardless which area of the forum they come from.



A touch dramatic don't you think? You make it sound like some sort of apartheid for threads!



> May I suggest a mini icon with the letters _RPG_ for the RPG threads and a little skull with crossbones for Political and Religous topics?
> 
> I'm sure others might have suggestions for the other sections of the forum. For movies perhaps we could have a little circle with 'PJ' and a line struck through it.



Why not? It may add a dash of chuckle to the proceedings.


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## Ithrynluin (May 20, 2005)

I agree with Nom and Cir, as I see very little basis for such a request.


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## scotsboyuk (May 20, 2005)

I wonder if anyone will agree with Barley and I if I shout loud enough?


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## Confusticated (May 20, 2005)

They might, its sometimes the only way to be heard! 



> I agree with Nom and Cir, as I see very little basis for such a request.


Well if it does happen, it would only be fair to give other areas icons too. (I was trying to be funny with the suggestions in my last post, but it was a serious point). But I am suspecting it might be more trouble than it is worth. I 'd estimate that over half of the members don't _ever_ use Who's Online. And most who do do not use it r eally often....at least I use it all the time and it seems I only see the same several people using it frequently. And guests, they can't even access it, so they're out.

This reminds me of something I suggested long ago.

On the main page we have the option of collapsing whichever forums we would like to hide, but is there any way we could also omit posts from certain forums when we do searches for 'New Posts', and any other search that displays lists of threads or posts? Put a forum on ignore, I guess.

But see the funny thing is, that even this would not end the problem Barliman brings up, since the threads would still show at the one place where you must click to find out which forum they ar e in: _Who's Online_. Ummm.. unless they could be made to say _So and so is vieiwng thread_ [Ignored Click here to Un-ignore]]



> A touch dramatic don't you think? You make it sound like some sort of apartheid for threads!


I don't think it is more dramatic than if I were to suggest that a forum section I personally have no interest in be given icons so that I do not accidently visit them from _Who's Online_.


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## Barliman Butterbur (May 20, 2005)

Nóm said:


> What sets me off the most though, is the attitude that threads from a particular area of the forum which is no less valid than the rest of the site, should have special marks next to them in the _Who's Online_ window just because someone who doesn't have interest in those threads doesn't want to accidently visit them....
> 
> Or the suggestions that this one section of the forum is somehow alien because Barliman himself has no interest in it.



You seem to have an unfortunate talent for misinterpreting peoples' intentions.

YOU are the one who implies that some threads are "less valid" than others — not I. YOU are the one who is saying that some threads are "alien," not I. And then you proceed as if it was coming from me, when it is YOU who have grossly miscast my intentions by projecting your own twist on them.

The ONLY reason I requested such a symbol for RPG threads is for easy identification, since they are, I insist, significantly different in kind and purpose from all the rest of the threads, Tolkien or non-Tolkien related. THAT'S ALL. The rest of that stuff is all YOU, Nóm, all you.

Frankly I would think that an RPG symbol would be _appreciated_ by RPGers, since they could easily spot them out of the rest of the mass of threads and posts.

Barley


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## Alatar (May 20, 2005)

Whoo, is it getting hot in here?
Wait... how do you use the whos online area?
I use both RPG and non RPG threads(though recently i have use RPG's more) and i do not care witch I get.. Though i don't like politcs threads but thats just me.
Barley it is a reasnable sugestion, and it makes sence,but is it more troublr than its worth?


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## Ithrynluin (May 20, 2005)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> The ONLY reason I requested such a symbol for RPG threads is for easy identification, since they are, I insist, significantly different in kind and purpose from all the rest of the threads, Tolkien or non-Tolkien related. THAT'S ALL. The rest of that stuff is all YOU, Nóm, all you.
> 
> Frankly I would think that an RPG symbol would be _appreciated_ by RPGers, since they could easily spot them out of the rest of the mass of threads and posts.
> 
> Barley



I disagree that they are even _considerably_ different from the rest of the Tolkien-related areas, let alone _significantly_. Book discussions encompass discussions on what was written by the Professor. RPGs use those discussions to expand on what was written by the Professor. Sometimes these 'expansions' have more of a strict Tolkien feel, and sometimes less, but the point remains.

Additionally, RPGs *have* been here before MERPG merged back into TTF.

If you're looking for areas _significantly_ different from the purpose of the site, they are the five off topic fora under the common name 'Flotsam and Jetsam'. 

I believe the majority of our members look for topics of interest by browsing forums that are most likely to host these topics. Why somone looking for a particular topic, in this case an RPG, would hang around Who's Online for ages, waiting for someone to access an RPG, so _they_ can too, rather than simply going to the collection of our RPG fora and checking out what's up in a matter of minutes or even seconds, is beyond me.

Also, as has already been said, the RPG fora have a different colour scheme - one that has been used on the MERPG site. The reason this is so is to make MERPGers feel more like home. Therefore, if one who is uninterested in RPGing should - god forbid - stray into the RPG area by chance, they can at once spot what kind of threads are hosted therein by way of the colour scheme, use the conveniently placed 'back' button on their browser, and be back to wherever they were in a jiffy. Shouldn't take more than a couple of seconds - all of this definitely less time consuming than waiting for Who's Online to deliver the thread of one's choice.


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## Barliman Butterbur (May 20, 2005)

Ithrynluin said:


> I disagree that they are even _considerably_ different from the rest of the Tolkien-related areas...



I don't believe this... what a tempest in a teapot! All over one simple request. Bureaucracy and high emotion win again...  

Barley


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## Gothmog (May 20, 2005)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> I don't believe this... what a tempest in a teapot! All over one simple request. Bureaucracy and high emotion win again...
> 
> Barley


The "Tempest in a teapot" was made up of members of the site. Ithy (an Admin) gave your request consideration and an answer. 'Bureaucracy and high emotion' had nothing to do with it.


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## Confusticated (May 20, 2005)

I didn 't even imply the RPG are less valid, and I didn't say you claimed they are.

This interpretation error lies with you, and it wouldn't be a first would it?

That point was that in my opinion it would only be fair to single out a particular section IF it were somehow less valid.

---> The point - WHY single out a section that is not less valid? <---

Do my words not bear this out... "the attitude that threads from a particular area of the forum which is no less valid than the rest of the site, should have special marks next to them"

Do they NOT?!

The only thing implied by my use of words regarding "not less valid" is nothing more than this: Singling out would only be fair in my opinion if it were less valid, which it is not.

If I thought you were offering "less valid" as your reason, I would be arguing for why it is valid, not complaining about what was requested.

I have interpreted that your intentions are to have RPG threads marked in such a way that will allow you to identify them from _Who's Online_. - Where exactly have I "grossly miscast" your "intentions"?

Even further, I have interpreted that your motive for this is out of a wish to not accidently happen on the RPG threads from _Who's Online_. 

Unless I was only dreaming when I heard _...could we PLEASE have a new symbol on the RPG threads that indicates that the thread has to to with RPGs? That would save the annoying trouble of having to back out of an RPG thread we didn't know was RPG._ and also: _...the RPG areas are distinctly different in content and purpose from any of the other threads. On my computer at least, there's even a different banner and even a different skin color, all of which tell me that the RPG area is indeed a different breed of cat — in which I personally do not happen to have an interest._


The fact is you never know what you will get from WO, there is never a guarantee, regardless of thread title, that the thread will actually interest you.

Please forgive my use of "Alien". Next time should I say "different breed of cat", "significantly different in kind and purpose", or "distinctly different".

I am not against using markers on threads, but I am not for it either. I'm neutral on it. What I _am_ against is this happening to only one type of thread. Espec ially because of the reason provided. Vehemence? I was annoyed at the fact that when the idea was suggested it was only suggested that a single type of thread be marked because the person suggesting it didn't want to happen on that type of thread. Had it said "Can we get makers to indicate if the threads are RPG, movies, books, political and so on?" there would have been no such reaction. Knowing this, I wonder if you are you still "at a loss to understand" my "vehemence".






Barliman Butterbur said:


> I don't believe this... what a tempest in a teapot! All over one simple request. Bureaucracy and high emotion win again...
> 
> Barley


They didnt win to get the politics shut back down. 



Barliman said:


> Frankly I would think that an RPG symbol would be _appreciated_ by RPGers, since they could easily spot them out of the rest of the mass of threads and posts.


Why not suggest a marker for liberal propaganda then.


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## Arthur_Vandelay (May 21, 2005)

Nóm said:


> They didnt win to get the politics shut back down.



Nor should they have. 




> Why not suggest a marker for liberal propaganda then.



Isn't that implied in the words "Forsaken Inn?"


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## Phenix (May 21, 2005)

> Frankly I would think that an RPG symbol would be appreciated by RPGers, since they could easily spot them out of the rest of the mass of threads and posts.


that's total rubish as the entire idea with a rpg is that the ppl who are involved already follows the threads which means that they should already be monitoring them, either by subscribing to them or simply check their threads when they log in.
Like most others here i think the idea is rather useless and i honestly don't understand what it is that takes time simply push backspace if you accidently get into and rpg, u don't even have to move the mouse!!!


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## Beorn (May 21, 2005)

There is no point to this. Nom is right: if we were to mark one type of thread, we'd need to mark every other one. This isn't a matter of bureaucracy or high emotion, but rather of fairness to not only threads (because I know the RPG threads would be very hurt if they were singled out) but to members.

There is no reason for this to have escalated to this point.


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## scotsboyuk (May 21, 2005)

Beorn said:


> There is no reason for this to have escalated to this point.



Yet long posts on the subject abound ... Rather ironic that such a simple request should have generated so much debate ...


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