# If Gollum have not died...



## Goku da Silva (Oct 9, 2021)

I aways wondered, if Gollum had not died at the end and the Eldar were willing to take him to the undying lands would him have been able to recover (both in body and mind)?


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## grendel (Oct 9, 2021)

Well, that is purely hypothetical, but I think we can say that Gandalf had pity for Gollum, and held out hope (however faint) for his eventual redemption. And I believe Gandalf's opinion would have carried a lot of weight with the Valar.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 9, 2021)

If Gollum had repented -- to use Tolkien's word -- as very nearly happened, he might have, though Tolkien in the same letter speculates that he very likely would, if Frodo proved unable to destroy the Ring, have thrown himself with it into the Fire.

And welcome to the forum, Goku! 😊


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 11, 2021)

Goku da Silva said:


> I aways wondered, if Gollum had not died at the end and the Eldar were willing to take him to the undying lands would him have been able to recover (both in body and mind)?



I don't think he was good enough to have be granted permission to go over the sea. I'm not entirely sure he would have survived the destruction of the ring. The extension of his life would have come back all at once. All 600 years.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Oct 21, 2021)

Good question...well, maybe Gollum had better be escorted into the Gondor "House of Healing's mental department" in the first place, such key personnel involving the research about the One Ring must be highly valuable for the Gondor military high command, after all. There must be bunches of classified stuff found out through Gollum. XD


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## Inkling (Oct 21, 2021)

So I know that this doesn't actually answer your question directly, but I would just like to point out one theory that I ABSOLUTELY subscribe to, and once I saw the attached video it literally changed the way I viewed LOTR. Its basically about how Gollum was cursed by Frodo to fall in, so there was no way Gollum would have survived. 10/10 would recommend.





However in terms of the question I think the Valar would have let him. Smeagol wasn't actually evil, just overcome by the evil of the ring.


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## Bunny (Oct 28, 2021)

Inkling said:


> So I know that this doesn't actually answer your question directly, but I would just like to point out one theory that I ABSOLUTELY subscribe to, and once I saw the attached video it literally changed the way I viewed LOTR. Its basically about how Gollum was cursed by Frodo to fall in, so there was no way Gollum would have survived. 10/10 would recommend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Peter86 (Feb 18, 2022)

grendel said:


> Well, that is purely hypothetical, but I think we can say that Gandalf had pity for Gollum, and held out hope (however faint) for his eventual redemption. And I believe Gandalf's opinion would have carried a lot of weight with the Valar.


I have heard a lot of people compare the power of the One Ring to the power of heroin;
and there certainly seem to be several similarities there, in the sense that ordinary people become consumed by something extremely addictive and then have serious problems getting out of it without professional help.
And the One Ring seems to be even more powerful than heroin;
heroin addicts are able to recover from their addiction (although they will always feel tempted by it, but they learn to resist that temptation), whereas people like Gollum seemed to be beyond all hope.
Frodo also seemed to experience a similar ever-lasting desire for the One Ring at the end of LOTR;
I have always felt very moved by the part when he tells himself that all has been "dark and empty" since its destruction, which to me sounds exactly like depression.

With this in mind, I don't really blame Gollum;
he was obviously a victim of the One Ring, and sometimes some people become so addicted to something that they cannot think clearly.
So I would probably want him to follow everyone else to the Undying Lands.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 18, 2022)

T. A. Shippey may have been the first to suggest the addiction idea. It has some validity, but still doesn't explain some aspects of its effect -- it certainly doesn't explain what happened to Boromir, for instance.

Shippey attempted to overcome this objection by arguing that some people "want" to be addicted, a statement that indicates, to me at least, that he never spent much time around addicts.

Still, whether the Ring represents "Power", or is merely a powerful artifact, there's no doubt that power itself is addictive.

BTW -- welcome back, Peter86! 😊


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## Peter86 (Feb 18, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> T. A. Shippey may have been the first to suggest the addiction idea. It has some validity, but still doesn't explain some aspects of its effect -- it certainly doesn't explain what happened to Boromir, for instance.
> 
> Shippey attempted to overcome this objection by arguing that some people "want" to be addicted, a statement that indicates, to me at least, that he never spent much time around addicts.
> 
> ...



Thanks. 

Yes, there are some significant differences as well;
the One Ring has a certain psychological effect on people even before they have used it, so I guess it could be viewed a bit as a "fluid" drug, which decides to affect the people who can bring it back to Sauron.

Then there is also the factor that well-meaning people are less likely to become empowered by it, which is one reason why Bilbo managed to resist it really well - because he decided that he didn't want to kill Gollum during his escape from the caves in "The Hobbit".
My understanding is also that the Ring's influence on people is somewhat proportional to the power of those people, which would mean that Gandalf would be _very_ susceptible to it, whereas ordinary people like Bilbo and Frodo, who didn't seem to have any specific powers, would be more resistant to it.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 18, 2022)

Yes, Galadriel warned Frodo about that: "Do not try! It would destroy you".

Edit: I don't want to go off topic here, but on the subject of Boromir, and his relation to the Ring,you might find the discussion on this thread of interest:









At Boromir's death


There is a particular aspect I like speculating about, as regards the description of Boromir's passing.. At last slow words came. ‘I tried to take the Ring from Frodo,’ he said. ‘I am sorry. I have paid.’ His glance strayed to his fallen enemies; twenty at least lay there. ‘They have gone: the...




www.thetolkienforum.com


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## LadyGaladriel1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

The elves take only a few people to the undying lands: Frodo get his place on the ship only, because Arwen giving him her place, which she dont need herself, and so he could recover. Gimli could go to the west, because Legolas take him with. 
But i dont think, that the elves would take an evil creature like Gollum to the west. I think, Gollum had the ring to long, it was 450 years...to long to recover from that.


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## ZehnWaters (Mar 11, 2022)

LadyGaladriel1980 said:


> The elves take only a few people to the undying lands: Frodo get his place on the ship only, because Arwen giving him her place, which she dont need herself, and so he could recover. Gimli could go to the west, because Legolas take him with.
> But i dont think, that the elves would take an evil creature like Gollum to the west. I think, Gollum had the ring to long, it was 450 years...to long to recover from that.


At best they might get someone like Lórien or Rivendell to host Gollum, after someone like Elrond did all he could to heal him. But, TBH, Gollum is just mean. He wasn't liked by his own community BEFORE he found the ring.


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