# Bombadil in the First Age?



## earthfriend (Aug 12, 2021)

Why did neither side seek out Bombadil in the First Age? given his pre-eminence as the oldest living thing on Earth, and his undoubted but unspecified powers and abilities, he would have been a massive asset to either side, yet he took no part, even though his entire world was at risk. Was he on a par with Morgoth? Morgoth virtually overran the entire world, or seemed about to, and the peoples of M.E. had no answer to him. Did Bombadil just sit idly by?
(Did Tolkein even consider Bombadil at this point, or was he a later invention that only came into being in his later works of LOTR)


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## m4r35n357 (Aug 12, 2021)

Bombadil simply would not have stood out in the "weirdness" of the First Age, just another spirit under Eru. And yes, he is only in LotR.

As to the "mystery" element, he is not a mystery to Gandalf or Elrond, just to mortals.


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## Elthir (Aug 12, 2021)

While it's true that Bombadil jumped into Middle-earth (his external history before that aside here)
in _The Lord of the Rings . . ._

_. . ._ after _The Lord of The Rings_ (including after Appendix A to _The Lord of the Rings,_ which is found 
in _The_ _Return of the King_ -- for those who have three book versions of _The Lord of the Rings_), Tolkien 
did continue to update his Silmarillion writings, in any case.

🐾


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## m4r35n357 (Aug 12, 2021)

Also, given his geographical preference in LotR, he was probably busy over the Eredlindon in the _huge_ southern forests of Eriador (which were at that time joined to the Taur-im-Duinath of Southern Beleriand).


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## earthfriend (Aug 12, 2021)

So was he a character conceived by Tolkein AFTER he'd completed Silmarillion, and wrote him into the LOTR, seemingly without giving thought as to how he would fit into the mythology? There's an inconsistency given his being the oldest being in Middle Earth, but taking no part in truly earth-shaking events. It's inconceivable that Bombadil could have taken no interests in the war against Morgoth or the coming of the Valar. 
Unless JRRT simply never got around to clarifying his role


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## Ealdwyn (Aug 12, 2021)

earthfriend said:


> Unless JRRT simply never got around to clarifying his role


It's my understanding that he always intended Bombadil to be a mystery


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## Goldilocks Gamgee (Aug 12, 2021)

earthfriend said:


> It's inconceivable that Bombadil could have taken no interests in the war against Morgoth or the coming of the Valar.


I think it is normal. I doubt that he would have gone out of his way to fight Morgoth. He most likely had territory of his own, which he did protect and fought for. But why, why should he leave the boundaries?


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## earthfriend (Aug 14, 2021)

*IF* Bombadil did exist before Morgoth, he was powerful enough to massively influence Morgoth's impact on Middle Earth. Given the destruction Morgoth & Co. wrought in Middle Earth, it's not conceivable that Bombadil would have simply stood back, and said ''knock yourself out Morgoth, I have no interest in what happens outside my lands''. Even if Bombadil had stayed in his own lands, the knock on effect, loss of habitat, refugee problem, environmental damage would have imoacted on him massively. He's not bothered about dragons and Balrogs roaming about , murdering and destroying at will? 
I think the only explanation is Tolkein at the time of Silmarillion hadn't conceived Bombadil, he was someone Tolkein thought of in later years as he was writing LOTR, but didn't reconcile him into the mythology of Elder Days. Given that LOTR was initially written as a child's story, Bombadil was written in as some merry little chap with unlimited powers in his own lands, but Tolkein didn't give thought as to how his character, being the oldest and possibly the most powerful being in Middle Earth could be reconciled into the First Age. 
When Thangorodrim was overthrown by the Valar, they would have known of Bombadil's existence. Having travelled to Middle Eart, wouldn't they have at least called in for a cup of tea? after all, he was one of them


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## Olorgando (Aug 14, 2021)

earthfriend said:


> I think the only explanation is Tolkein at the time of Silmarillion hadn't conceived Bombadil, he was someone Tolkein thought of in later years as he was writing LOTR, but didn't reconcile him into the mythology of Elder Days. Given that LOTR was initially written as a child's story, Bombadil was written in as some merry little chap with unlimited powers in his own lands, but Tolkein didn't give thought as to how his character, being the oldest and possibly the most powerful being in Middle Earth could be reconciled into the First Age.


I doubt anyone here could have put it better. Tom Bombadil had nothing to do with Middle-earth in his origins, and JRRT was still struggling badly with his "New Hobbit", had barely gotten his foursome out of the Shire - and heading for Bree, where there were more Hobbits. In an earlier version, what became Strider, King-in-hiding of Arnor, in fact the reunited kingdom, was a Ranger Hobbit! JRRT never seriously tried to write back TB into the First Age, in contrast to that other "Eldest", Treebeard, but left him purposely as an enigma.


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## Boffer Balsashield (Aug 19, 2021)

Yeah, earthfriend probably has the gist of it there. My best guess for a retcon explanation for Bombadil is that he's the First Age equivalent of Radagast.

That is, he's a Vala who came over when Middle Earth was first formed, long before the wars of Morgoth. In that way he was similar to the Istari who were Maiar who came over in the Third Age. Bombadil probably came of his own initiative though, and like the Istari he would have had a different name back in Valinor. When he came to Middle Earth he fell in love with the forests of what eventually became the Old Wood, and lost himself in it like Radagast did with the wildlife of Middle Earth.

I'm sure that doesn't fit all the facts that we know of Bombadil, but it's the best in-universe backstory I can think to explain him.


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## Sartr (Aug 19, 2021)

At no point which I remember is he ever stated to have "unlimited powers". The closest thing to that is "within his borders, nothing seems to dismay him". But the elves at the council say that if Sauron personally got involved, he could probably defeat Bombadil. So I don't see him challenging Morgoth even if he wanted to. And after the Kinslaying, the Valar/Maiar were forbidden from helping until the end of the 1st age anyways.


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## grendel (Aug 19, 2021)

The best explanation I ever read, and I cannot remember where I saw it, is that Bomabil is an enigma, and Tolkien intended it to be that way. I believe we have enigmas in our world, placed here to make people _think_: Bigfoot, the origin of the Sphinx, Teotihuacan...


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## earthfriend (Aug 20, 2021)

In an earlier post, I had acknowledged that at the Council, andalf said ''Could Bombadil at the end resist the comin of Sauron? I think not. Last as he was first.'' Unlimited powers was intended fiuratively, not literally.


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## Boffer Balsashield (Aug 20, 2021)

grendel said:


> The best explanation I ever read, and I cannot remember where I saw it, is that Bomabil is an enigma, and Tolkien intended it to be that way. I believe we have enigmas in our world, placed here to make people _think_: Bigfoot, the origin of the Sphinx, Teotihuacan...


Yes, I think that's what Tolkien himself said. Of course nowadays, we have a pretty clear idea of the origins of Teotihuacan and the Sphinx, and Bigfoot is pretty much debunked. Not that any of that was true in his day.


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