# Bilbo the dude



## Larval (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi, I've read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings many times, but it's been a while. My question is did Bilbo have a job? Did he contribute to the well being of Hobbiton? What did he do? When we first meet him he is lounging around in his garden.I'm asking because I just watched Fellowship of the Ring again there recently and it depicts Hobbiton as being this Near Utopia. Its so idyllic. Most people seem to be farmers or craftsmen or whatever. What about Bilbo? We see him writing his memoirs. But what was he doing before all that? What was his position in society when Gandalf first encountered him? Slacker? Rich kid? Bum?
I'm immensely curious
Bar


----------



## Ares B (Mar 25, 2010)

I don't recall any mention of his work. 

He could be classified as "idle rich", living off the estates left by his wealthy parents. After all his mother was Old Took's eldest daughter, and it was with her money his father built the Bag End.


----------



## Astrance (Mar 25, 2010)

Yes, I think Bilbo was a gentleman, like Jane Austen's Mr. Darcy, although less handsome (and less wealthy, too).


----------



## ltnjmy (Mar 25, 2010)

Larval said:


> Hi, I've read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings many times, but it's been a while. My question is did Bilbo have a job? Did he contribute to the well being of Hobbiton? What did he do? When we first meet him he is lounging around in his garden.I'm asking because I just watched Fellowship of the Ring again there recently and it depicts Hobbiton as being this Near Utopia. Its so idyllic. Most people seem to be farmers or craftsmen or whatever. What about Bilbo? We see him writing his memoirs. But what was he doing before all that? What was his position in society when Gandalf first encountered him? Slacker? Rich kid? Bum?
> I'm immensely curious
> Bar


 
Great thread.  I don't remember also what his occupation was - - but I know that at the beginning of the FOTR - he was living off his share of Smaug's gold, a little remaining portion of which he gave to Merry and Pippin before he left for Valinor.


----------



## HLGStrider (Apr 2, 2010)

I got the idea, though I don't know that it is directly stated, that he owned at least the land that the Gamgee's lived on. If he owned more property (from family inheritance), it is possible he just lived off the rent. Also, his estate could've been self-sufficient, surviving off the taters the Gamgee's gardened up for him, etc.


----------



## ltnjmy (Apr 2, 2010)

HLBaggins said:


> I got the idea, though I don't know that it is directly stated, that he owned at least the land that the Gamgee's lived on. If he owned more property (from family inheritance), it is possible he just lived off the rent.


 
You are quite right - from what I recall - he owned Bag End and all of the surrounding holes (where the Gamgees lived).


----------



## Bucky (Apr 4, 2010)

ltnjmy said:


> You are quite right - from what I recall - he owned Bag End and all of the surrounding holes (where the Gamgees lived).


 
*There is never any mention that Bilbo owned any land that I recall in 30 or thereabout readings of all Tolkien's writings.....

While a nice theory, nothing in any text backs this up.

The Hobbit simply says Bilbo was wealthy from inheriting money from his parents, most likely the majority from his father.
Most everything on the Took side, one must suppose went to the eldest son who became Master of Tookburough, not his eldest daughter - but not all.

As usual, speculation aside, here is what the text actually says:

The Hobbit, pages 1 & 2:

;'The Bagginses had lived in the neighborhood of The hill for time out of mind, and people considered them respectable, not only because most of them were rich....'

'...but the fact remained that the Tooks were not as respectable as the Bagginses, though they were undoubtably richer.'

'Bungo, who was Bilbo's father, had built the most luxerious hobbit-hole for her (and partly with her money) that was to be found either under the Hill or across The water....'

So, there, as usual, UUT's aside, lies your answer.*


----------



## Rock (May 3, 2010)

That's actually a really good question, Larval. I honestly have no idea myself, though you could try looking it up.  That's what I usually do when I have any question about Middle-Earth (or anything else, for that matter). 68% of the time it works.


----------



## Starflower (Jul 7, 2010)

Well, we can safely assume that Bilbo owned Bag End - after all he sold it to the Sackville - Bagginses in FoTR. But he was a bachelor and at the time of the Hobbit Frodo had not yet come to live with him; his expenses would have been reasonably small. Also, Bilbo was not drawn to excesses, by all accounts he lived a modest but comfortable existence on the money he inherited. Belladonna of course was VERY rich, but Bungo must have had some means of his own to secure her hand in marriage.


> Not that Belladonna Took ever had any adventures after she became Mrs Bungo Baggins. Bungo, that was Bilbo’s father, built the most luxurious hobbit-hole for her *(and partly with her money)* that was to be found either under The Hill or over The Hill or across The Water, and there they remained to the end of their days.


 (emphasis mine)
This passage suggests that Bag End was not completely funded by Belladonna. 
Although it is not specifically mentioned anywhere, one can assume that the Bagginses probably owned other houses on the Hill, it would suit Bilbo's character to buy properties and charge a modest rent to the poorer families in Hobbiton.


----------



## Confusticated (Sep 7, 2010)

I wouldn't say "slacker" or "rich _kid_". He was just a good hobbit enjoying a simple peaceful life, but deep down longing for more.


----------



## Starflower (Sep 9, 2010)

I think Bilbo was regarded as a respectable (if slightly eccentric) gentle-hobbit, definitely not a slacker or a bum


----------



## Prince of Cats (Sep 9, 2010)

From the text he doesn't appear to have a profession. He seems like old money just lounging about. His biggest worry seems to be running out of cakes.

This makes me wonder: if he wasn't a working man, what _did_ he do? He had a gardener, there were no computers; how did he pass his time?


----------



## baragund (Sep 10, 2010)

I seem to recall references to writing: poetry, songs and the like. Also, just imagine what a typical English gentleman of, say, the late 19th century or early 20th century would do with himself. 

I also seem to recall references that he did own land and I thought the Gamgees were one of his tenants.


----------



## Hobbit-GalRosie (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes, I always vaguely wondered about this issue, and somewhat assumed that Bag End was somewhat self-sufficient and a large portion of that food came from Bilbo's garden. All we know for sure is that he had enough money to live comfortably. He wouldn't really have needed much for that, seeing as Hobbits live very simple lives, and eating so much is the only major expense that comes to mind! :*D


----------



## Parsifal (Dec 17, 2010)

Tolkien's Hero's are pretty much like almost all Medieval Hero's, coming from the "Nobility Class" and not having day-to-day jobs. (The only Medieval exception that springs to mind would be Sir Gareth the kitchen-boy, or maybe Parsifal :*D if he had a job living with his mum in the woods.)

Frodo and Baggins are rich adventurers, as are Merry and Pippin. Aragorn was a high-born ranger, Gandalf obviously a Maia, and all others (Faramir, Boromir, Imrahil, Eowyn, Eomer, Theoden, Glorfindel, Arwen, Galadriel etc. etc.) all came from either Human or Elvish nobility.
Thus the only exception is Sam, but even he despite his Adventures still stays Frodo's Servant, and keeps viewing himself as being of lower status then Mister Frodo, Mister Peregrin and Mister Meriadoc.

That doesn't mean Tolkien had poor regard for labourers, he respected the hard working man (also seen in his letters). I guess he just pictured the more educated as the world-changing adventurers class.


----------



## baragund (Dec 21, 2010)

I don't know if I would put the Brandybucks and the Tooks on quite the same level as the Bagginses, class wise. I've always considered them to be richer and more prolific than, say, the Gamgees but not one of the landed gentry that are the Bagginses.


----------



## Paladin (Dec 28, 2010)

Bilbo Baggins certainly did not have any job. He was obviously a wealthy hobbit; he owned a very large and luxurious house, he did not have any shortages that we know of, he was able to buy everything he needed and hire servants while still not living a very extravagant life. He definitely did have a huge lot of money stored somewhere, even after his Erebor Quest the things of value he had newly obtained were 1 helmet, 1 mail shirt, 1 dagger/short sword, 1 chest of silver, 1 chest of gold plus troll treasure (the latest which he gave away). Nowhere is there evidence to suggest Bilbo had a pile of wealth that he and his heir could live on comfortably without it depleting. Therefore one can assume Bilbo owned lands somewhere in the Shire was lived off rent and/or output from the land.

The Brandybucks and Tooks were of higher social status than the Brandybucks not only because they had more lands and money, but also authority. The Mayor at Michel Delving, the Master of Buckland and the Thain of the Tooks were the authority of the Shire, thus they were later made advisors to the King of the Reunited Kingdom.


----------



## Starflower (Jan 7, 2011)

Paladin said:


> The Brandybucks and Tooks were of higher social status than the Brandybucks not only because they had more lands and money, but also authority. The Mayor at Michel Delving, the Master of Buckland and the Thain of the Tooks were the authority of the Shire, thus they were later made advisors to the King of the Reunited Kingdom.



I have always assumed that the Thain and the Master were authorities in their own 'lands' only, certainly the Thain would be unlikely to have any authority or interest in matters at Buckland and vice versa. The Mayorship always struck me as being mostly ceremonial, mostly hobbits were self-governing. 
But the inclusion of the three as advisers to the King had more to do with the people occupying the respective positions, i.e. Pippin, Merry & Sam than any real acknowledgement of their authority over other hobbits.


----------



## Alcuin (Jan 7, 2011)

If memory serves me correctly, I believe the Oldbucks were the original “Thains” – that is, the head of the Oldbuck family was the person the hobbits chose to lead their military defense after the rape of Fornost and the end of the Kingdom of Arthedain. 

Eventually the senior member of the Oldbuck family crossed the Baranduin (Brandywine) and began a colony that was outside the legal boundaries of the Shire, changed his name to Brandybuck, and was became the Master of Buckland. 

The position of Thain was then given to the head of the Took family. 

The Thain and the Master of Buckland were hereditary positions that required military duties: even when Frodo and his companions returned to Lotho and Sharkey’s totalitarian Shire, Buckland, with the Brandywine and Old Forest as its defensive frontiers, had not fallen under the control of the Ruffians; nor had Tookland. Pippin was able to bring about 100 archers to the defense of the Shire overnight: the wealth of the Tooks and their ancestral digs enabled them to withstand the encroachments and attacks of Lotho and his henchmen.

The Mayor was a later position. Will Whitfoot, the Mayor when Frodo set out, was from the largest community, Michael Delving (“Big Dig”?). The Mayorship was up for election every 7 years and oversaw the Post and the Shirriffs. I think this office may originally have been simply the Mayor of Michael Delving, but gained wider prominence in the Shire because of the size and importance of that community.

In any case, the leaders in the Hobbit Revolt against Sharkey and the Ruffians were Merry, Pippin, and Sam. (Tolkien points out that Frodo’s main contribution was preventing the hobbits from slaughtering their Ruffian prisoners.) That, even more than any hereditary titles, made them the leaders of the Shire. 

But I agree: the Shire seems like a confederacy of freeholding farmers and townsfolk than a feudal system or republic.


----------



## Edheldae (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey all, I'm new here and enjoying the posts. I think we're overlooking the role of a prominent land-holder in a rural society. Either through size or location, some families would aspire to be a local go-to for making social arrangements, lending (where there are no recorded banks) and providing a little local scholarship (Bilbo taught Sam his letters). In short providing influence and a setting for business transactions. I don't think its too far a stretch to imagine the Baggins neighbors turning to him or his father to settle disputes, come with ideas for improving the neighborhood and setting a respectable tone for Hobbiton.

Also, as I recall the Gamgees and others on Bagshot row were turned out when Lotho purchased Bag-End, which would imply landlord status.


----------

