# How much did Gollum know?



## HLGStrider (Jun 21, 2003)

OK
The Gollum subject came up again and Yay asked Feanorian if he'd admit Gollum to be an accidental hero, and Feanor. said 



> Not when his motives include world domination and the death of the nasty hobbits.



Now this gave me pause for about .009 seconds. 

I always thought Gollum just thought it was a pretty little trinket. I don't think his motives were world domination. Apparently some people had different theories I'd never heard before. 

So did he know it was powerful? 
How powerful did he think it was?
Did he want to be a dark lord?
Did he even know it was the thing prolonging his life?


----------



## Feanorian (Jun 21, 2003)

Like I said in the other thread, I do not know for sure whether or not he knew about the rings true nature. However it does not really matter if he knew or not because he was controlled by the ring and the will of the ring other then trying to get back to Sauron was the domination of others. He had to have known that the Ring had some significance either that or he probably thought Sauron was over reacting with that whole torture and imprisonment thing.


----------



## BlackCaptain (Jun 22, 2003)

I think he knew about Sauron and his owning the One Ring. He kept on telling the Hobbits to 'not bring it to it's master!' and such. Gollum just loved it SO much that he wanted it. He figured he could keep it safe if he had it, which is why he took it from Frodo in the Sammath Naur.

I don't think he thought of the Ring as being powerful... Rather just a check-mate move for Sauron if he found it.

No... he didn't want to be a dark lord


----------



## Eriol (Jun 22, 2003)

There is a quote:



> 'No, sweet one. See, my precious: if we has it, then we can escape, even from Him, eh? Perhaps we grows very strong, stronger than Wraiths. Lord Sméagol? Gollum the Great? _The_ Gollum! Eat fish every day, three times a day, fresh from the sea! Most Precious Gollum! Must have it. We wants it, we wants it, we wants it!



Gollum overheard by Sam in the Chapter "The Passage of the Marshes", TTT.


----------



## YayGollum (Jun 22, 2003)

So did he know it was powerful? 

Looks pretty obvious to me. Good thing he didn't have the ability to use especially creepy powerses with it.

How powerful did he think it was?

I wouldn't know. From that quote, I'd say that he wasn't stupid enough to not notice how it might be achingly useful to a really big and scary guy. It seems like he thought that he could use the thing just as well. But then, the Gollum half of the guy was acting pretty crazy at the time. Having way too much fun. Smeagol wouldn't think like that. He'd only use the thing to hide. It's his security blanket.

Did he want to be a dark lord?

You crazy. Of course not. Not even the Gollum half. Gollum = aggressive and scary and things like that. Smeagol = poor little kid. Gollum would rather be big and scary like Sauron so he wouldn't have to be afraid. Smeagol would just want to keep his security blanket and hide all the time.

Did he even know it was the thing prolonging his life?

How would I know? I don't see why he couldn't figure that out after wandering around and not seeing his relatives back where he left them.


----------



## HLGStrider (Jun 22, 2003)

Well, I think he would undeniably know he was old, but would he say, "OH GOSH! This ring is making me LIVE FOREVER!" or "Hmmm. . .I always said eating fish would increase my longevity." 

Good quote, Eriol. . .I'd forgotten that. He definitely had some ideas of power.


----------



## Grond (Jun 23, 2003)

Though I haven't searched the text for quotes to support my opinion, I always thought Gollum's knowledge of the Ring increased greatly AFTER he lost it. Let us not forget that Gollum was a Stoor (a hobbit, no less) and was not stupid. As he began his travels, surely he heard more about the Ring as he quested about.

He almost certainly was made aware to some degree of its significance when he was captured and tortured by Sauron. There is a quote in the book where it speaks of Sauron letting him go because Gollum was enslaved to the Ring and would be "called" to it over time. 

It is also clear from the Letters of JRRT that the author felt even Frodo would not have been able to overcome the Ringwraiths, much less the Dark Lord had he actually succeeded in claiming the Ring and wielding its power at the Cracks of Doom. Frodo would only have become powerful had he steeled his heart to domination and increased his will and character. That would have taken time.

Gollum and Bilbo were much alike in this. Neither of them really knew what they possessed while they possessed it. Both thought it was simply a neat magic trinket that imparted invisibility (and I'm sure that Gollum realized his life span was greatly enhanced.)

Overall, Gollum thought he would be able to make the Wraiths obey him and that he would have been a Dark Lord himself... but in the end, he would have been a slave to the Dark Master who is but a slave to the true Dark Lord, Melkor. (my boss)


----------



## HLGStrider (Jun 23, 2003)

Welcome back, Grond!. . . and good post. . . Will you be staying now? DON'T LEAVE AGAIN!

Now we have a new side to Gollum. . .Gollum the Meglomaniac!

I admit that Gollum never would be able to control the ring. 

Poor fellow was very deranged. . .


----------



## HLGStrider (Jul 22, 2005)

Any more opinions? King Gollum or just poor Fish Lover?


----------



## Hammersmith (Jul 22, 2005)

I'd agree with Grond's excellent post. Gollum wasn't stupid, and would soon realise that he wasn't the only one interested in the Precious. However, I'm equally certain that his ambition began and ended with the quote Eriol submits. He wanted fish, or more broadly he wanted comfort and happiness. He muddily saw the Ring as a means to that end, though I doubt if he knew or planned any escapades in which the Ring would have been his tool. Doubtless when he had the Ring back, everything would be "all better", and his problems would be fixed; a play on his childlike nature mixed with the seduction of the Ring.


----------



## ingolmo (Jul 22, 2005)

Revived thread, is it? 

Gollum, even if he did know, didn't care whether it was so powerful. He was just interested in the Ring. He just wanted the Ring, because he was corrupted to it, and desired it more than anything else. Not having it was torture to him.


----------



## HLGStrider (Jul 23, 2005)

I would say, however, that his initial interests and uses of the ring were a way of gaining some petty power. He used it to spy and cause trouble. He sort of botched the job, though, and instead of becoming more powerful, he got himself kicked out.


----------



## Greenwood (Jul 29, 2005)

HLGStrider said:


> I would say, however, that his initial interests and uses of the ring were a way of gaining some petty power. He used it to spy and cause trouble. He sort of botched the job, though, and instead of becoming more powerful, he got himself kicked out.


The Ring did give Gollum some of that "petty power" you mention. I think part of the discussion between Frodo and Galadriel at the end of The Mirror of Galadriel chapter in FOTR is relevant here:


> "I would ask one thing before we go," said Frodo, "a thing which I often meant to ask Gandalf in Rivendell. I am permitted to wear the One Ring: why cannot _I_ see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them?"
> 
> "You have not tried," she said. "Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. ..... "


Thus, the Ring gave Gollum "petty power" commensurate with his inate power. 

Now, when Galadriel tells Frodo that he should not try to use the power of the Ring because it would destroy him, I do not think she meant that he would blow up in a puff of smoke, or anything like that. I think she means that he would succumb to the power of the Ring immediately, as he finally did at Orodruin. In a sense, he would no longer be Frodo; he would no longer be his own master.


----------

