# Arafinwë's Adventures in Beleriand



## Turgon (May 13, 2004)

I was thinking back earlier to an old debate we had on the forum about the rightness of Finarfin's return to Valinor. 

During the course of this debate somebody (Maedhros of course!) mentioned that Finarfin's duty lay with his people in Beleriand and that his wisdom could have put to good use there. Now disregarding that rightness or wrongness of _Finarfin's Choice_ - do you think that Finarfin's presence in Beleriand could have altered the fate of exiled Noldor in any way? 

Just an interesting what if I suppose - but it could be interesting to see what people think.


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## Confusticated (May 13, 2004)

Turgon!  

I doubt he would have altered their ultimate fate. That is, them coming to so much ruin that the Valar had to bail them out at the last minute.

But I do think he might have gone on to make some peace among the Noldor or between Thingol and the Noldor. I imagine he would have been more a diplomat that an active leader in anything. 

So, I guess I think things would have ended much the same, but would have taken a different path, one where the wise and noble Finarfin made some difference for a time.

_Finarfin's Choice_... a good read.


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## Beleg (May 13, 2004)

Not at all, as Nom said, the ultimate result would have been the same with the exception of the Finwe clan being totally wiped off. 

If Finarfin would have been there, he would probably have ruled instead of Finrod...

Finarfin choice, hey I mean who can seriously argue that his choice was wrong!


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## Turgon (May 14, 2004)

Well Nóm, do you not think that if Finarfin could have brokered a peace between the Noldorin Princes and Thingol the whole history of Beleriand could have been altered? Imagine the Nirnaeth with another large body of elves fighting the good fight!? Imagine Fingolfin seeking advice from his brother before his desperate ride to Angband!? It's easy to see Finarfin as purty but ultimately ineffectual - but then with pretty much the whole of the Noldor in Beleriand perhaps the Valar would have some serious thinking to do? In such a case abandoning the Noldor to their fate is tantamount to genocide. Do you not think that having Finarfin and his humbled followers tucked safely away in Tirion eased the Valar's guilt somewhat? Perhaps of Valinor were totally emptied of its resident Valinor even the timid Vanyar would begin to stir uneasily at Manwë'e feet? 

Um... that's a lot of perhapses... isn't it?


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## Confusticated (May 15, 2004)

> Well Nóm, do you not think that if Finarfin could have brokered a peace between the Noldorin Princes and Thingol the whole history of Beleriand could have been altered? Imagine the Nirnaeth with another large body of elves fighting the good fight!? Imagine Fingolfin seeking advice from his brother before his desperate ride to Angband!?


Well, I am not sure that even the wisdom of Finarfin could have made alliance between Thingol and the Feanorians. Not even sure he could have brought Thingol to Nirnaeth. Sadly I had typed up a pretty long post for this thread yesterday and ended up losing it. But in it I went on and on a ramble about what sort of leader I think Finarfin would be, including what his views on war might be. In short: Would Finarfin have agreed with Nirnaeth? Also, I somehow think the death of his children would have been especially heart breaking to Finarfin. I remember in another thread I think Ancalagon said something to the effect that Finarfin just wasn't really cut out for Beleriand, and I sort of agree. 

But even all of this aside, the Noldor were doomed before Finarfin turned back. I don't think that Finarfin going forward would change that doom.

I can not see Fingolfin, in the state he was in, seeking advice from Finarfin.

I really like your ideas about the impact Finarfin and his group's return might have had on the Valar, but I would not say that it would be genocide one way and not the other... either way 10 percent of the Noldor had stayed behind.

One thing I have always thought is that had Finarfin not turned back when he did, he might have been able to get more people to turn back at the Helcaraxe... but who knows?


Beleg, as for Finarfin ruling instead of Finrod, I wouldn't put it that way. All the princes ruled as it was, so I think Finrod might have his own realm if Finarfin had come, but really when it comes to people like Finarfin and Finrod, whether King or lord in title or not, these are the people who lead by serving, and who are followed for their wisdom not their authority I think. Or maybe I idealize them too much. One area I think they may different in, this father and son, is that perhaps Finarfin would not have travelled so much. One thing is sure about Finrod, and I say King of Nargothrond in title, King of Beleriand in practice. Unlike Thingol and Orodreth after Finrod, he did not take on responsablity for his own people first above all else regardless of how it might effect the outside world, he thought of the good of all the world. Actually so yes, he did think of the good of his people in a sense, only that his people were all people. I think this is the most wise too, if the world gets in trouble or already is in trouble, then your realm is in danger in any case, and will eventually see trouble. Not only that, but it showed (and in the case of Finrod I trust was motivated by) great kindness, a caring for others.


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