# Tolkien and C.S. Lewis



## Hirila (Apr 27, 2002)

I just read the Cosmic Trilogy by C.S. Lewis again (now for the third time, it`s really fantastic) and only now I noticed: 
The heavenly beings in this trilogy are called "Eldila" (singular "eldil") Does that remind you of something, too? Tolkien's "edain" for example. Or more close: the eldila live in what we call space and elvish stars are "el". Pure chance? I say no!

It's no wonder if you consider that Lewis and Tolkien were close friends. Lewis even said in his foreword to the third part of the trilogy, "That Hideous Strength"



> Those who would like to learn further about Numinor and the True West must (alas!)await the publication of much that still exists only in the MMS of my friend, Professor J.R.R. Tolkien.


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## Lantarion (Apr 27, 2002)

Yes, I have noticed this myself (Cf. *Narnia*= Sindarin _narn_+_îa_. It is indeed no mistake, as Tolkien and Lewis worked very closely together (but I think that it was Tolkien who did most of the brainwork). 'El' being the word for 'star' both in Tolkien's and Lewis' languages is not coincidental, IMO. (As a trivial sidenote, did you know that in Swedish 'el' means 'electricity'?)
These _Eldila_ contain two different elements of Sindarin, and one 'alien' element. _Eldil_ is just a shortened form of _Elendil_, as both _el_ and _elen_ mean 'star'. The 'alien' element is the plural suffix _-a_, which does not appear in any of Tolkien's published works.
BTW, I am interested in that quote you posted. When you wrote 'Numinor', diud you just misspell Númenor or did CS Lewis also have some island called Numinor?! That seems incredible, that anybody would copy another person's work so blaitantly..


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## Hirila (Apr 27, 2002)

No, Lewis spelled it "Numinor" and he refers to Tolkiens work with it. 

He wrote that preface to "That Hideous Strength" in 1943 at Magdalen Colledge, Oxford. This sentence about Tolkien is btw the only mention of Tolkien in it. I often wondered why he put it in. The rest refers to the content of the following story. Great secret why he put that Tolkien-sentence in. Perhaps because he addressed the Inklings with his preface?


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## ReadWryt (Apr 27, 2002)

The deal is this...

Tolkien and Lewis made a deal, Lewis would write a story about Space and Tolkien would write a Time Travel story. The Time Travel story would deal with Atlantis (Numenor)...and chunks have since been published as "The lost road" and "The Notion Club Papers", but alas although Lewis finished his stories Tolkien did not. Lewis wrote that as a means of lighting a fire under J.R.R.'s butt to get him to finish the tale, but it didn't work out in the end as "The Silmarillion" took up so much of the Professor's time...


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## Hirila (Apr 27, 2002)

That's interesting. Where did you get that from? I can't remember it from Carpenter's biography or is it in there?

Great luck for us that Tolkien preferred working at the Sil than at this other story. Perhaps we wouldn't be here otherways!


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## Rangerdave (Apr 28, 2002)

> That's interesting. Where did you get that from? I can't remember it from Carpenter's biography or is it in there?



There is quite a bit of information on this in Ruth S. Noel's The Mythology of Middle Earth 

Also try Anne Petty's One Ring to Bind Them All: Tolkien's Mythology 


Both of these have been out of print for about 25 years now, but any good public library should either have it, or can order it.

RD

PS. Also try the Tolkien Lengendarium I forget the name of the author.


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## ReadWryt (Apr 28, 2002)

I got the first reference to this "deal" between them in Letter #24 of "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, written to Stanly Unwin on the 18th of Feb. 1938...



> We originally meant each other to write an excursionary `Thriller': a Space-journey and a Time-journey (mine) each discovering Myth. But the Space-journey has been finished, and the Time-journey remains owing to my slowness and uncertainty only a fragment, as you know.



...and then again in passing in a letter written to his son Michael in November or December of 1963 after the passing of C.S. Lewis (Letter #252) in which he states...



> It was planned years before, when we decided to divide: he was to do space-travel and I time-travel. My book was never finished, but some of it (the Númenórean-Atlantis theme) got into my trilogy eventually.



The Interesting thing about the above quote is that it is the only place that I have found where the Professor refers to "his trilogy", and in fact he speaks out often in his writings that The Lord of the Rings is indeed only one book split into three volumes each with two chapters...Just a really geeky side note.


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## elvish-queen (May 4, 2002)

I'm no expert but I heard that they (and I think a few other people) had a night out once a week or something when they read their works for that time to each other. I also recall something about arguments between Lewis and Tolkien about copying or something, but then again I got a short memory! Will ask my parents, they know more than me!


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## morning star (May 16, 2002)

Aaragorn from lotr and Aslan from c.s. Lewis's narnia seam like a character frome a different book. Like they based these characters on that one. The book is that called the Bible. Aslan and Aaragorn seem like the character of God. Is this an accident? at least not in Lewis's case I think not.


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## Rangerdave (May 16, 2002)

WOW!

I have never seen Aragorn as a Christ figure before. I suppose that a strong argument could be made. Aslan may be a bit easier, but still a challange. 

I see a closer relation to the Arthurian Romances than to Biblical sources. But then my mind works that way. I have always considered Aragorn more closely related (symbolicly) to Arthur, and Gandalf an equal to Merlin.

Good response. I would enjoy hearing more on your views on this subject.

RD


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## ReadWryt (May 17, 2002)

Uh...yeah. I could see where some scruffy ruffian who is a king in disguise, who leads a small band of adventurers on a quest to destroy evil and fights many bloody battles on the way and then marries the woman he loves and is crowned King could be compaired to a character who passively let Evil kill him so that he might become stronger to defeat evil in the end...

...are you certain you didn't mean Gandalf instead of Aragorn?


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## morning star (May 17, 2002)

After Aslan was killed by the witch he rose again.
Aaragorn is the king who returns. 
Christ was crucified and rose.
it's said some day Christ will return.


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## Rangerdave (May 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by morning star _
> *After Aslan was killed by the witch he rose again.
> Aaragorn is the king who returns.
> Christ was crucified and rose.
> it's said some day Christ will return. *




And Arthur is the Once and Future King. 

I guess I just can't make the connection. But then, I try not to surplant religious or philosophical elements into works unless the Author does so first. But if you see it that way, good on you. This shows that at least you are thinking. Analysis is the first step to academic enlightenment. So while I don't agree with your conclussions, don't ever let me or anyone else here (you know who you are) without undisputable proofs. And then make up your own mind on the matter.

RD


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## morning star (May 18, 2002)

I myself think that Lewis was basing the Chronicles of Narnia more on the Bible, or Christ than Tolkien did with LOTR.


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## morning star (May 23, 2002)

I think that Tolkien and Lewis were fairly close friends. 
Maybe. They at least new each other.


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## Theoden (May 24, 2002)

You know I heard that Tolkien was the one who lead CS Lewis to Christianity... I thought that was so cool. And your right, much of their work is very much alike... but I enjoy them both for different reasons


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## morning star (May 24, 2002)

Tolkien's LOTR seems more enchanting for every age. The Chronicles of Narnia seem a bit less enchanting for the older crowd. Maybe that's just me. They're both superb though.


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