# What made Frodo volunteer?



## Arvedui (Dec 11, 2006)

From _The Lord of the Rings, The Council of Elrond_:


> No one answered. The noon-bell rang. Still no one spoke. Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.
> 'I will take the Ring,' he said, 'though I do not know the way.'


Previously in the story, Gandalf has claimed that Frodo was meant to have the Ring. So I am just wondering: was there some greater power that was present and spoke with the voice of Frodo?
And for those who remember it: this also fits in with the "hobbits had a mission"-theory...


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## Gordis (Dec 12, 2006)

Wasn't there some manipulating wizard nearby who had a special ring for "kindling of hearts?" 

And even before he got Narya, Gandalf had been good in "promptings of wisdom":

"But of Olorin that tale does not speak; for though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did no know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put in their hearts"


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## Mr. Underhill (Dec 13, 2006)

I believe that the Valar were still very much involved in the fate of Middle-Earth, although of course indirectly and with a desire for the free peoples to "fend for themselves" as much as possible. I think the Lady of the Valar (Manwe's spouse) may have had a special interest in Frodo and his destiny ... for instance bading him to speak the name 'Elbereth' on Amon Sul when attacked by the Nazgul. Perhaps his feelings were guided by her ...


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## Gordis (Dec 13, 2006)

I still think that even in the Weathertop case, Gandalf may have been the responsible. He had Narya, one of the Elven Rings and therefore he had means of direct mind communication with Frodo while the hobbit had the One on. 
Remember Amon Hen when Frodo put on the Ring and was almost spotted by Sauron? Frodo felt someone's voice in his mind telling him to take the One off. This time we know it was Gandalf who strove with the Dark Lord's will. 

Why couldn't the same have happened on the Weathertop? Gandalf was not far away, somewhre North-East on his way to Rivendell. He could (and should) have sensed that Frodo put on the Ring and "suggested" to call on Elbereth.


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## Mr. Underhill (Dec 13, 2006)

Hmm ... I'm not so sure that Gandalf had means of direct mind communication with Frodo while he wore the ring. Gandalf did not realize that Bilbo had the ruling Ring after his adventure with Gollum, though he suspected he may have come across one of the lesser Rings of Power when he said something like "there is a ring of truth to your tale" after Bilbo had told of his adventure ... And with your theory, would not Sauron, who held the Nine and a few of the Seven, have known who held the Three?? I do not think Sauron knew for sure who held the Three, although I'm sure he had some good ideas ...


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## chrysophalax (Dec 13, 2006)

I think Frodo might have felt a latent sense of responsibility, seeing as it was Bilbo who physically brought the Ring back into the outside world. But then of course this brings us back to old debate as to whether or not it was the Ring manipulating Bilbo or merely a by-product of a lucky escape (exempting for the moment any influence by the Valar).


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## GuardianRanger (Dec 13, 2006)

chrysophalax said:


> I think Frodo might have felt a latent sense of responsibility, seeing as it was Bilbo who physically brought the Ring back into the outside world.



I also think that Frodo felt of home and his friends back home that would ultimately be in danger if the powers of Mordor started to overrun Middle Earth. And, it's not like there were people leaping out of their seats to volunteer.


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## Gordis (Dec 14, 2006)

Mr. Underhill said:


> Hmm ... I'm not so sure that Gandalf had means of direct mind communication with Frodo while he wore the ring. Gandalf did not realize that Bilbo had the ruling Ring after his adventure with Gollum, though he suspected he may have come across one of the lesser Rings of Power when he said something like "there is a ring of truth to your tale" after Bilbo had told of his adventure ... And with your theory, would not Sauron, who held the Nine and a few of the Seven, have known who held the Three?? I do not think Sauron knew for sure who held the Three, although I'm sure he had some good ideas ...



My theory doesn't imply a direct mind communication between the bearers of the 19 rings - only between the wielder of the One and one of the 19. Otherwise, yes, Sauron wouldn't need the One to know where the others Rings are.

We know that when Sauron put on the One for the first time all the Elves who wore the other rings felt it, even heard his words! 
We know that wearing the One Sauron had access to thoughts of the other ringbearers and could control them. Even with Frodo wearing the One it might have worked in a way - if he but tried. Galadriel said so much at least.

Bilbo never knew what he wore, so he never dreamed to order Gandalf about. The fact that Gandalf felt nothing and didn't recognize the One could be explained by this. 

Unless it is a plothole. After all, when writing the Hobbit, Tolkien had no idea that Bilbo had the Ruling Ring. Even the conception of the Ruling Ring has not yet arisen in 1936.

Giving Gandalf Narya was a late idea. Almost all the text of the LOTR had been finished when Tolkien made this addition. And the number of inconsistencies had arizen: 

Gandalf not interested in the Ring-Lore and knowing so little about the Rings sounds strange if we consider that the guy had the mightiest of the 19 for a couple milennia, does it not?
Also it is difficult to explain how come Saruman did not take Narya he coveted so much (UT) while Gandalf was his "guest" in Orthanc.
and so on...


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## Firawyn (Dec 15, 2006)

Hummm I havn't seen a discussion this interesting in a while.

I think that the connnection, as stated above, was very real between the One and any of the others...it would explian 'one by one the fell into his will' (not exact quote) 

But in refering to the way the men with the nine fell into darkness so quickly. Sauron knew that he needed to conquor them, because as they proved during the War of the Ring, they were his biggest chalenge. 

The Elves were powerful, but had the escape of the west, if things went badly, dwarves could escape into the caves, stay away from the distruction...men had escape, so they faught the hardest...I think that's where the bond between men and hobbits came - neither had a way out, they had to win, or everything they were would parish....oh I tihnk I just went off topic..oops! lol

Anyway, the connection, if only subconsiously, was there. Perhaps because Bilbo used the Ring, and Gandalf had his ring at the same time - it wasn't the weed that clouded Gandalf's vision, but the Ring itself...

Thoughts?


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## YayGollum (Dec 16, 2006)

I would, as a matter of course, jump towards the idea that the superly boring Frodo character merely blurted out the declaration because he figured he'd end up getting volunteered by someone else, anyway. The quote seems to be pointing out that he wasn't a large fan of the decision but was certain that it was about to show up. Longing for peace and quiet just before doing something sickeningly selfless and unintelligent is only natural. He only made the declaration in a way to arouse your suspicions because no thought needed to be made.

But then, I never thought about the horrifyingly creepy and evil possibility of the evil torturer Gandalf psychically stealing control of the poor guy's voice. Mayhaps I am naive, incapable of conceiving such evil. Whoops. You people are larger fans of that evil character than I am, though, so you would know what he would do better than I. Not sure if he had the power to wrench control of people's voices away from them, but oh well. He's evil like that.


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## Gordis (Dec 17, 2006)

I wouldn't call Gandalf evil  , but he WAS a manipulator, carrying out his mission by all means possible. He did sent Bilbo on his Quest against the hobbit's better judgement - because Gandalf needed Bilbo in Erebor. He sent Frodo on his Quest for the benefit of all.

Gandalf was no Santa Klaus, he was the Secret Agent of the Powers, not without mercy, but ruthless at times.



Firawyn said:


> Anyway, the connection, if only subconsiously, was there. Perhaps because Bilbo used the Ring, and Gandalf had his ring at the same time - it wasn't the weed that clouded Gandalf's vision, but the Ring itself...


I think this is a very good idea. Indeed the Ring had a will of its own. For instance, it did everything it could to quit Isildur and to put him in peril - as it must have hated the one who slew its Real Master. Probably when in Bilbo's possession, the Ring did everything to remain undetected by a powerful Maia in Bilbo's company, clouding his mind, trying to remain undetected.


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## Thorondor_ (Dec 18, 2006)

Gordis said:


> the guy had the mightiest of the 19 for a couple milennia


Where is that stated??


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## Gordis (Dec 19, 2006)

What are you referring to, Thorondor?
I hope you do know that Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf shortly after TA 1000? I think you do. 

So you must be referring to Narya being the "mightiest of the 19". Here I am not sure. I have found one quote where Vilia is called the "mightiest of the 19", and one quote where Nenya is called "the Chief of the 19", and not so long ago answering a quiz on LOTR Plaza I found out that the answer they wanted was Narya as the mightiest - so I believe there is a quote supporting that as well.  

Anyway, I do not insist on it. The Three were still the mightiest of all 19 Elven Rings - and which one of them is the strongest is not really pertinent to the discussion here. Whatever Ring Gandalf had, he still should be more interested in the Ring-Lore than he was.


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## Thorondor_ (Dec 19, 2006)

> I hope you do know that Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf shortly after TA 1000?


Yes, I know that. It would also seem from Unfinished Tales that Gandalf received the ring at his first meeting with Cirdan.


> Gandalf not interested in the Ring-Lore and knowing so little about the Rings sounds strange if we consider that the guy had the mightiest of the 19 for a couple milennia, does it not?


I think there are several explanations for this. First of all, Gandalf was the only one true to his mission, organising the resistance against Sauron. We also see that each and every Istari seemed to have a specialisation: the blue ones, possibly magic, Radagast - animals, Saruman: Machine/lore/craft, and Gandalf - probably humans. We also should consider that there was a hierarchy involved in the order, wether formally explicit from the begining or not (though it became explicit after Saruman became head of the order) - if Saruman as head "claimed" a certain subject, he could expect others to "respect" his choice, esspecially seeing his possessiveness of the knowledge he gained. To me, this polarisation of interests explains things clearly enough.


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## Alcuin (Dec 19, 2006)

Vilya, not Narya, was the “mightiest of the Three.” _Return of the King_, “Grey Havens”:


> Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three.


Of course, by that time, Vilya was just a beautiful ring set with, what, a sapphire?


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Dec 20, 2006)

This may seem simple enough, but in _THe Lord of the Rings_, "The Shadow of the Past," Gandalf explains how the ring works to Frodo:



> A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. _It_ may slip off treacherously but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to someone else's care - and that only at an early stage, when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know Bilbo alone in history has ever gone beyond playing, and really done it. He needed all my help, too. And even so he would never have just forsaken it, or cast it askide. It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left _him_.



After reading this, it seems clear to me that Frodo did not choose to be a ring bearer; it chose him. But why, since the Ring certainly would not desire its own destruction but would be answering Sauron's call to bring it back to him? We all know that Frodo in the end could not forsake the Ring. So perhaps the Ring chose him because Frodo was one of the few brave enough to bring it back to Mordor, and thus closer to Sauron's reach.


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## Ingwë (Dec 21, 2006)

I just want to add to the last post:


> Behind that there were something else at work, _beyond any design_ of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was _meant_ to find the Ring, and _not _by its maker. In which case _you also were meant_ to have it. And that may be an encougaring thoght


It seems that it was predicted that Frodo will destroy the Ring and Sauron was meant to be overthrown  I agree that there was some greater power that was present and spoke with the voice of Frodo. He was supposed to be the Ring-bearer and to destroy the One Ring. 
And speaking of hobbits we mustn't forget the three kinds: Harfoots, Stoors, Fallohides. As far as I remember they "represented" the other races: Elves, Dwarves, Men. Though the hobbits were of men kind they had special mission and they completed it. 

Note: this post is unfinished


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## Inderjit S (Jan 6, 2007)

"If I were thee," said Goodgulf, "I would start on thy journey soon." Frito looked up absently from his rutabaga tea. "For half a groat you _can_ be me, Goodgulf. I don't remember volunteering for this Ring business." 
"This is not the time for idle banter," said the Wizard, pulling a rabbit from his battered hat. "Dildo left days ago and awaits you at Riv'n'dell, as will I."

From, 'Bored of the Rings'


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 6, 2007)

Perhaps my expectations were way too high, but _Bored of the Rings_ was a huge let down for me. I also purchased _The Sellamillion_, which I sent to Nóm for her birthday, and I snuck a peek of the first few chapters, but found the humour tepid and uninspired. Talk about a great birthday present!


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## Aglarband (Jan 7, 2007)

It could be a combination of Gandalf and his ring and The One Ring itself. Just like all the others there, he was drawn to it, even more so as it was in his possession for a few years by then. Maybe he did not wish to lose it just yet.


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## Inderjit S (Jan 7, 2007)

Bored of the Rings was good, welll the first few chapters were great, but it kind of dipped after that. The Silmarllion parody was terrible however....our parodies were way better!   (And more X-rated!)


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## Starbrow (Jan 20, 2007)

> Maybe he did not wish to lose it just yet.



I never thought about how maybe Frodo did not want to give up the ring. He had the ring for years more than Isildur, who couldn't give it up after a short time.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jan 20, 2007)

Arvedui said:


> ...I am just wondering: was there some greater power that was present and spoke with the voice of Frodo?



I think it was — at first glance — just a matter of simple logic and social pressure: who else could have possibly gone? Everyone else had clear missions, and, besides that, up to that time Sauron hadn't heard of hobbits, and he had no idea of what they looked like, what they were like, how brave or cowardly they were, etc. He didn't know that they were exceptionally "tough in the fiber" and not easily daunted: brave in the face of hideous danger. He didn't know that they could walk barefoot over sharp rocks, could throw stones as deadly on target as Zen archers and be silent as shadows when they needed to be. So — at _second_ glance: Tolkien _wrote_ them with abilities specifically needed for the job. _It was pre-ordained by the author._



Ith said:


> Perhaps my expectations were way too high, but Bored of the Rings was a huge let down for me. I also purchased The Sellamillion, which I sent to Nóm for her birthday, and I snuck a peek of the first few chapters, but found the humour tepid and uninspired. Talk about a great birthday present!



There is absolutely _nothing_ as low, useless, stupid, and cheap/easy to write as bad parody. And _Bored of the Rings_ is a perfect example. _Blechhhhh!_ ***retch***gag***  

Barley


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## Starflower (Sep 3, 2007)

> No one answered. The noon-bell rang. Still no one spoke. Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last
> with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.
> `I will take the Ring,' he said, `though I do not know the way.'



I feel that Frodo was 'destined' to be Ring-bearer but also that he volunteered out of a sense of duty. After Bilbo's announcement a moment earlier that he would take the Ring to Mordor, I'm sure Frodo felt that he had come this far with it, he should see it to the end.


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## Snaga (Sep 4, 2007)

I wouldn't read too much into Arvedui's quote - I don't feel some external manipulation is needed to explain Frodo's psychological state. Its not unknown for people to feel slightly 'outside themselves' especially when they are doing something particularly stressful or brave or unusual. I remember that feeling of sort of observing myself at certain points in my life.

I'd also say that Gandalf would NOT force someone do something against their will - a bit of prompting and nudging, yes. Taking over someone's mind is another matter entirely. Something Saruman or Sauron would do.


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## Leveller (Dec 2, 2007)

Just a stupid theory, but maybe he was already so influenced by the ring that he didn't want anyone else to carry it?


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## Starbrow (Dec 2, 2007)

I don't think that's a stupid theory. You made a good point.


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## Gordis (Dec 3, 2007)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> besides that, up to that time Sauron hadn't heard of hobbits, and he had no idea of what they looked like, what they were like, how brave or cowardly they were, etc. He didn't know that they were exceptionally "tough in the fiber" and not easily daunted: brave in the face of hideous danger. He didn't know that they could walk barefoot over sharp rocks, could throw stones as deadly on target as Zen archers and be silent as shadows when they needed to be. So — at _second_ glance: Tolkien _wrote_ them with abilities specifically needed for the job. _It was pre-ordained by the author._



I think by the time of the Hunt Sauron knew many of these things, for he had personally met and questioned Gollum. He wouldn't know the term "hobbit", and where the Shire was, but he understood that "Baggins" was a creature of the same kind as Gollum (UT). And Gollum proved tough, utterly indomitable in fact, and also perfectly adapted to live in the wilderness (much more so than an average hobbit).


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## Firawyn (Dec 3, 2007)

Leveller said:


> Just a stupid theory, but maybe he was already so influenced by the ring that he didn't want anyone else to carry it?



I agree with Starbrow 100%. That's a very good point there Lev. 

I think perhaps Gandalf was aware of this pre-attachment, and thus was the firs to jump in and say "I'm with you". If Gandalf already knew Frodo was attached, he'd want to watch out for him - for the sake of all Middle Earth.


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## Leveller (Dec 4, 2007)

Could also be the reason Bilbo "jumped to the conclusion" that they wanted him to carry it? He always seemed a bit too eager in my mind


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## Firawyn (Dec 4, 2007)

He's a hobbit! Always eager. And a Baggins at that. lol

I think he saw the same things that Frodo saw; that Hobbits were the only race that neither had a grudge on another culture, nor any other culture had a grudge on him, as a hobbit. 

It was pure logic.


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## Bucky (Dec 20, 2007)

What Made Frodo Volunteer?

HE had the Ring AND nobody else would go......

This isn't rocket science.


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