# Top 10 warriors in middle earth history (ranked)



## Aragorn II Elessar (Jul 4, 2021)

There are rankings on this subject on some sites on the internet. I have created my own ranking. The only thing you need to know is that this list is only the order of success and sword skill. That is, it includes the most successful and great warriors. The list goes from the best to the lowest.

1-Turin turambar
I put Turin as the 1st on the list. According to the elves' expression, no one can kill him with a weapon unless an arrow comes by chance. Moreover, he killed dragons such as glaurung and ancalagon, although not alone, with the help of his friends and earendil, and he put an end to all evil by killing melkor in dagor dagorath. He should be at the top of the list of warriors.






2-Fingolfin
As you can all guess, Fingolfin is in the second place of the list. After Dagor Bragollach, he appeared like a vala with his horse in his anger, plunged into the armies of Orcs, and injured Melkor 7 times, leaving him lame.





3-Ecthelion
Some of you may not agree with me, but I thought ecthelion should be in the top 3 on the list. That's why I put ecthelion in the 3rd place. Because he kills 3 balrogs by himself and then kills the gothmog, the lord of the balrogs. Not even Feanor has such a feat. The making of silmarils and fighting are two different things I think.





4-Glorfindel
Glorfindel is mentioned as a very skilled swordsman in most sources. Therefore, there is no harm in putting him on the list. Killing the balrog and returning with the Maiar powers is the biggest indicator of his combativeness.





5-Feanor
although he never killed a balrog when he fought a pack of balrogs, I think it definitely deserves to be on this list.





6-Hurin
Hurin, the strongest of the first age in physical strength, destroyed the troll guards with his giant axe.





7-Isildur
I'm putting on the list in isildur because he defeated sauron.





8-Fingon
I think fingon should be on the list since he got into a one-on-one sword fight with a balrog.





9-Maedhros
He wielded a sword so well that the orcs would curse him even if he lost his hand.





10-Earendil
I think he deserves respect even though he is in the last place for killing ancalagon, which is bigger than a mountain, together with turin, with a bow made of dragon horn.





The list is completely my opinion. If you want, you can put your own list under this topic.


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## Miguel (Jul 4, 2021)

I personally consider Húrin and his Dor-lómin men gnarlier than Númenóreans. Yup.


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## Elthir (Jul 5, 2021)

Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> Moreover, he killed dragons such as glaurung and ancalagon, although not alone, with the help of his friends and earendil, and he put an end to all evil by killing melkor in dagor dagorath.



I just think certain things on this list need not be as straightforward as you seem to be presenting them.

A) Túrin did not kill Ancalagon with help from Earendil. You're mixing an older idea with a newer one here -- which adds up to inventing *something Tolkien never wrote*.

B) In my opinion we don't know _for a fact_ that Túrin killed Morgoth in an End of Time scenario, given that the prophecy of Andreth at least arguably puts the older idea in doubt -- and again, the End of Time scenario at the end of QS had become a Mannish Myth in any case, as the Second Prophecy of Mandos was rejected.

C) Even *if* Tolkien retained one or both ideas, I myself do not think that the slaying of Ancalagon, for example, should necessarily be counted in a comparison to feats of martial prowess with other beings who were not sent back by *Eru*. Is Túrin returned *from the dead* the same being in all ways? We can argue that his return has to be an act of *Eru*, and for all we know, Túrin had become "something more" and could not lose, no matter what.

And if there is a* Mannish Myth* that claims Túrin comes back from the dead to slay Morgoth, I'd say *of course a myth about the future* will have Túrin win . . . it's a myth that arises so that Túrin will win.

In other words, why would a Mannish Myth arise in which Túrin is slain by Morgoth at the end of time? I'd think that would rather be a myth that arises among the "bad guys" who believe Morgoth will prevail over Túrin.

And yes, you could still consider him "Túrin" in any case, and he _might_ have been exactly the same after returning from an *ineffable existence*, and thus could possibly be killed by Ancalagon but still defeated him anyway . . .

. . . but in my opinion, a better comparison (that avoids such questions) to other warriors would include what Túrin did in his "regular" life -- which still gives him a notable place as far as bravery and warrior type deeds go.

All that and handsome too 



Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> Because he kills 3 balrogs by himself and then kills the gothmog, the lord of the balrogs. Not even Feanor has such a feat. The making of silmarils and fighting are two different things I think.



The Balrogs of the very early version of _The Fall of Gondolin_ were not the Balrogs that Tolkien envisioned decades later. *"The early conception of the Balrogs makes them less terrible, and certainly more destructible, than they afterwards became . . . " *Christopher Tolkien, The Fall of Gondolin

Thus I think this become a dubious source for "counting Balrog kills" as a factor, not to mention that decades later Tolkien even entertained that the (now) more powerful Balrogs (who had only become Maiar well after the source you are using here), possibly numbered as low as 3!




Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> Killing the balrog and returning with the Maiar powers is the biggest indicator of his combativeness.



Tolkien noted that Glorfindel had become *"almost"* an equal to the Maiar with respect to *spiritual* power. Make of that what you (anyone) will with respect to swording and smashing people about.



Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> I think he deserves respect even though he is in the last place for killing ancalagon, which is bigger than a mountain, together with turin, with a bow made of dragon horn.



Again, not *with* Túrin

And according to Bilbo's song in Rivendell, Earendil owned a dragon horn bow, along with a sword and other stuff, but the song doesn't describe Ancalagon's death in any case.


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## Hisoka Morrow (Jul 5, 2021)

Hope this help you^^

Good analysis, yet there're several elements could be taken into account, such as tactical assistance provided by comrades or not(Such as Gothmog did meet other combat before fighting Ecthelion or not). In addition, You forgot those warriors in the 3rd Age, such as Bard as well as Fram, both having the records of killing dragons.


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## Aragorn II Elessar (Jul 5, 2021)

Elthir said:


> I just think certain things on this list need not be as straightforward as you seem to be presenting them.
> 
> A) Túrin did not kill Ancalagon with help from Earendil. You're mixing an older idea with a newer one here -- which adds up to inventing *something Tolkien never wrote*.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your answer. What I want to ask you is: Can we assume that turin and earendil killed the ancalagon together? And is the dagor dagorath and turin fighting in the war of wrath in the same story? Or different versions?


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## Elthir (Jul 6, 2021)

Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> Can we assume that turin and earendil killed the ancalagon together?



For myself, I see no reason to assume this; and as I say, to do so would amount to something that Tolkien never wrote.



Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> And is the dagor dagorath and turin fighting in the war of wrath in the same story?



Without going into a detailed textual history, when talking about Túrin and the Dagor Dagorath (or The Second Prophecy of Mandos), most people are probably referring to a version that appears in (a version of) *Quenta Silmarillion*.

So no, the Andreth prophecy concerning Túrin is not in Quenta Silmarillion, and only appears in a late author's note to a text called *The Problem Of Ros *-- where Tolkien was musing about a linguistic issue concerning the Elvish word*s* ros -- there was a "color word" ros that referred to the *red-brown* hair of Maed*ros* and Feanor's two youngest sons, and another Elvish word ros, meaning something different.

And as you might have noticed, in a thread a certain "Glorfindel" started elsewhere, at another Tolkien forum (gasp!), I'm currently chatting about this stuff with someone who's going to publish an essay on Túrin.

🐾


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## Aragorn II Elessar (Jul 6, 2021)

Elthir said:


> For myself, I see no reason to assume this; and as I say, to do so would amount to something that Tolkien never wrote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who is the author who wrote that note to the problem of ros text? So that writer isn't Tolkien? someone else?


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## Elthir (Jul 6, 2021)

By author's note I mean Tolkien


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## Aragorn II Elessar (Jul 6, 2021)

Elthir said:


> By author's note I mean Tolkien


Well, I will ask a question. Is the text that turin killed the ancalagon more valid than other prophecies because it was written later? And the accepted prophecy dagor dagorath? Or the andreth prophecy?
PS: The reason I ask so many questions is because I am looking for a suitable middle-earth character for myself. According to my principle, my character should be the character who took part in the most wars and played the most key role in the universe. But there is no such man in the middle earth  that's why my username in the other forum is glorfindel.I oscillate between turin ecthelion and glorfindel. Excuse my obsession. I wish Tolkien had diversified the battles of the characters he wrote. Anyway, I would appreciate it if you could answer my first question.


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## Elthir (Jul 6, 2021)

Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> Well, I will ask a question. Is the text that turin killed the ancalagon more valid than other prophecies because it was written later?



I'll apologize up front, as I'm guessing the following isn't the answer you're looking for!

I wish I could give you an all-agreed-upon answer to this question, but I think everyone is going to bring in a "canon based" subjective opinion about this.

If Tolkien had _published_ either idea . . . if only!

To be honest, and I could be wrong obviously, but I don't get the feeling that tons of Tolkien fans even bother to read _*The Problem of Ros*_, much less the notes to it (Andreth's Prophecy), and since it arguably muddies the waters in some measure about a couple of concepts at least . . .

. . . well, some people don't like muddy water 

What I do say with a measure of certainty -- which, as you see "elsewhere" at the moment, others take issue with -- is that The Second Prophecy was abandoned. Christopher Tolkien said, *"definitively disappeared"* and I agree . . .

. . . but the important distinction is that, Christopher Tolkien did *not* say a Ragnarok-like End of Days battle scenario was definitively abandoned, and neither am I. Tolkien himself re-characterized the Second Prophecy as a Mannish Myth, which is not the same thing in any case . . .

. . . and then years later, as we see, JRRT tosses in a _potential_ wrench in the works with the Andreth Prophecy -- concerning which I have probably talked about more in the last two weeks . . .

. . . than in the last twenty years!


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## earthfriend (Jul 8, 2021)

Turin vs Bombadil? 
What about Durin?


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## Aragorn II Elessar (Jul 8, 2021)

Elthir said:


> I'll apologize up front, as I'm guessing the following isn't the answer you're looking for!
> 
> I wish I could give you an all-agreed-upon answer to this question, but I think everyone is going to bring in a "canon based" subjective opinion about this.
> 
> ...


The person who wrote the article on this site wrote that Turin returned to the middle earth with Earendil and killed ancalagon in the war. Moreover, he said that his claim was canon. What do you think?








User:LorenzoCB


"Nai Eru manyuva tanwenya ar tératuvas!" ― Aulë in Quenta Silmarillion, "Of Aulë and Yavanna" I'm a fan from Spain, a member of the Spanish Tolkien Society, active...




184.106.199.101


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## earthfriend (Jul 8, 2021)

It was my understanding that at the End of Days, Turin returned from the Halls of Mandos, and in a Ragnarokian Final Battle, went toe to toe with Morgoth and killed him, presumably this was closure for all the woes, but I couldn't give you chapter and verse, I'll leave that to the true Tolkein scholars. This is why I thought Turin, above all others in Middle Earth had some role defined for him that was not made clear during his lifetime. I guess Tolkein made so many revisions to his own work. I read Lorenzo's description, obviously a work of outstanding scholarship. It does clarify Bombadil's role as ''extra-literary'', being somewhat outside any of Arda/Middle Earth mythology. But Turin returning WITH Earendil , and killing Ancalagon? That's new to me


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## Elthir (Jul 8, 2021)

Ecthelion Of The Fountain said:


> The person who wrote the article on this site wrote that Turin returned to the middle earth with Earendil and killed ancalagon in the war. Moreover, he said that his claim was canon. What do you think?



The claim on this page is not represented as canon however, rather it's under a section titled *Headcanons.* Headcanon basically means: elements and interpretations of a fictional universe
accepted by an individual fan, but *not *necessarily found within or supported by the official canon.

In any case, as I've said before, Tolkien did not write any text (nothing that's been made public so far, anyway) in which Earendil kills Ancalagon with Túrin.

🐾


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## grendel (Jul 14, 2021)

Sometimes you gotta keep things simple.

Fingolfin took on, not just an Ainu but the mightiest being in all of Arda, mano-a-mano, and survived long enough to do him some permanent damage. That puts him #1 on my list.

Everyone else is just fighting orcs, or men, or elves, and the occasional Balrog.


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## m4r35n357 (Jul 15, 2021)

Ancalagon was *slain* by Earendil according to both the published Silmarillion and the Quenta Silmarillion (which was never afterwards updated by JRRT) and also in the Annals of Beleriand (which was used as the basis for the unpublished First Age Tale of Years).
So, Ancalagon was *killed* at the end of the First Age, end of  

(unless your head canon includes something like "Mandos for Dragons").


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## Elthir (Jul 15, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> ( . . . ) So, Ancalagon was *killed* at the end of the First Age, end of
> 
> (unless your head canon includes something like "Mandos for Dragons").



Oh I agree. In addition, Christopher Tolkien notes that the prophecy of Andreth -- wherein Túrin slays Ancalagon -- refers to the end of the First Age.


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## m4r35n357 (Jul 15, 2021)

Ah OK I re-read _Athrabeth_ today and didn't find it, also Ancalagon is not in the index of Vol 10, so I gave up 

It is looking very much like I have never seen her prophecy! Where is it to be found?

At any rate, my understanding is that all these "resurrections" are supposed to happen at the "End of Days", not necessarily the end of the First Age, unless of course that was the same thing at the time of writing . . .


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## Elthir (Jul 15, 2021)

Andreth's prophecy concerning Túrin only appears in a late author's note to a text called *The Problem Of Ros*.

And that's published in The Peoples of Middle-Earth


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## m4r35n357 (Jul 15, 2021)

OK thanks, found it. So that one is at the end of the "Elder days" not the end of time as it were.

So, despite Athrabeth being a post-LotR text, it doesn't mention her prophesy at all. So does this mean that all the prophesies of this sort are incompatible with Second, Third etc. ages?

Strange then that the updated QS (written post-LotR) includes it, and even _adds Beren to the mix_ (no mention of Ancalagon here!). This is definitely at the Ending of the World (see $31 and $32 on the last page of the later QS, vol. 11).

I've left some stuff struck through because I'm still trying to make sense of all this!


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## Elthir (Jul 15, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> So, despite Athrabeth being a post-LotR text, it doesn't mention her prophesy at all.



Well . . . Finrod didn't *ask* if she had yet uttered any prophecies concerning Túrin 

Or total guess, Tolkien hadn't thought of it yet, _The Problem of Ros_ being a late text in the aptly named _Late Writings_ section. That said, in an author's note to the commentary to the Athrabeth, we find Tolkien musing about how the Elves thought the World might end, and re-characterizes the Dagor Dagorath as a Mannish Myth.




m4r35n357 said:


> Strange then that the updated QS (written post-LotR) includes it, and even _adds Beren to the mix_ (no mention of Ancalagon here!). ( . . . ) I've left some stuff struck through because I'm still trying to make sense of all this!



I doubt even Christopher Tolkien could say for sure what the Andreth Prophecy might mean with respect to other "End of Days" references that came before it.

And I realize that all you said was "updated QS" -- and in one sense that's true, given that some changes made later are "updating" certain sentences. But if I may add . . .

. . . as I've mumbled before, Christopher Tolkien warns the reader that the post-Lord of the Rings corrections to this conclusion of QS need not amount to a final approval of content -- and that
(as I read his commentary), he'd find it both "remarkable" and not easy to interpret, if these "cursory correction" did amount to a final approval of content.

I'd also guess that these korrections came well before the Andreth Prophecy, but that aside, *taking the first of these corrections to this conclusion of QS, for example:

Section 6*:

Tolkien changes "Ingwiel son of Ingwe" to "Finarphin son of Finwe" as the leader of the Noldor . . . okay *but section 6 begins* by saying that the *"sons of the Valar"* prepared for battle, and that the captain of their host was *"Fionwe son of Manwe."*

An already rejected name and conception left to stand, not only in the same section, but in the sentence *immediately preceding* the change of Ingwiel to "Finar*ph*in" (not Finar*fi*n, which helps a bit with dating this correction). Moreover, in a typescript version Tolkien lets the passage stand, but changed Ingwiel to _Ingwion_ . . .

. . . and so what he left standing in the typescript was that Ingwiel/Ingwion appears to be the leader of the Noldor. Thus in the constructed Silmarillion, *Finarfin* appears.

I didn't look for examples beyond section 6, but I'm going to heed Christopher Tolkien already


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## m4r35n357 (Jul 16, 2021)

Elthir said:


> Well . . . Finrod didn't *ask* if she had yet uttered any prophecies concerning Túrin


True. Interesting though, or amusing, that Andreth prophesied about Turin (who had not been born) killing a dragon that hadn't been created, having a conversation with Finrod in which _he_ predicts the death of his Uncle 

The perils of relying on mortal (or Elvish) prophesies . . . I say leave it to Mandos!



Elthir said:


> I doubt even Christopher Tolkien could say for sure what the Andreth Prophecy might mean with respect to other "End of Days" references that came before it.
> 
> And I realize that all you said was "updated QS" -- and in one sense that's true, given that some changes made later are "updating" certain sentences. But if I may add . . .
> 
> ...


Point taken. It is not _just_ a case of corrections though, there is also a lot of text that is _preserved unchanged_ through three generations of the text (1930-1937-195?). I also consider the Tale of years as part of the "Silmarillion tradition" (as compressed Annals), and that corroborates my prejudices (see, I can admit it!).


Elthir said:


> I didn't look for examples beyond section 6, but I'm going to heed Christopher Tolkien already


I'm not really bothered about the name changes (I'm well used to keeping track of that by now!), just the structure. I do consider it significant that these "minor" changes were made to the manuscripts without any indication of planned _structural_ change though.

Just to reiterate about CT, he did write that he did not know about the Later Annals when he constructed his Silmarillion.


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## Elthir (Jul 16, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> ( . . . ) I do consider it significant that these "minor" changes were made to the manuscripts without any indication of planned _structural_ change though.



What do you mean by structural change here?


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## m4r35n357 (Jul 16, 2021)

Elthir said:


> OK but to go round this roundabout again, and not that you said otherwise, but that doesn't negate Christopher Tolkien's "be wary" with respect to this text being considered fully updated in the 1950s > Tolkien had already revised the concept of the Valar having children, yet that idea was "preserved" in this text?
> 
> In any case, to put a stamp on it, I've not argued, nor has Christopher Tolkien said (in my opinion), that the Dagor Dagorath had definitively disappeared.


Let's not then, unless you really want to 


Elthir said:


> So do I (generally speaking), but I'm with Christopher Tolkien that the Annals had merged with _Quenta Silmarillion_, and that the _Tale of Years_ was taking over for the Annals.


No argument there. But again there were no changes in the TOY, apart from birthdays, before 500. No changes to the War of Wrath in either the QS or the Annals/Tale of Years. _Small_ change to Doriath (Sons of Feanor defeated the Dwarves at Sarn Athrad, Melian taking the Necklace directly to Ossiriand then a brief note mentioning Ents).


Elthir said:


> What do you mean by structural change here?


Plot changes.


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## Elthir (Jul 16, 2021)

By the way, I edited my post above -- before you posted -- you must have copied and pasted before that, or something. Anyway.



m4r35n357 said:


> No argument there. But again there were no changes in the TOY, apart from birthdays, before 500. No changes to the War of Wrath in either the QS or the Annals/Tale of Years. _Small_ change to Doriath (Sons of Feanor defeated the Dwarves at Sarn Athrad, Melian taking the Necklace directly to Ossiriand then a brief note mentioning Ents).



If so (I'm not going to check), what's the argument behind stating this (see below)?



m4r35n357 said:


> Plot changes.



Okay, and are you arguing that we should consider the conclusion to Quenta Silmarillion as fully updated in the 1950s? Again, not that you said otherwise, but for example, it seems to me that the 
basic plot can easily remain when Tolkien characterized the Second Prophecy as a Mannish Myth.

Or is it about Túrin's role in the End of Days myth?

But if so, that (at least arguably) became muddied due to Andreth's prophecy, arising in a text dated
*"1968 or later"* according to Christopher Tolkien -- so I wouldn't expect to find changes regarding
Túrin in this conclusion to Quenta Silmarillion.

Not that Tolkien's addition* "and Beren Camlost"* was clear in the 1950s, in any case.


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## m4r35n357 (Jul 17, 2021)

Elthir said:


> If so (I'm not going to check), what's the argument behind stating this (see below)?


That there were very few of them.


Elthir said:


> Okay, and are you arguing that we should consider the conclusion to Quenta Silmarillion as fully updated in the 1950s? Again, not that you said otherwise, but for example, it seems to me that the
> basic plot can easily remain when Tolkien characterized the Second Prophecy as a Mannish Myth.


Yes, considering JRRT _expected_ CT to get the Simarillion published somehow, I can't believe that he withheld anything!


Elthir said:


> Or is it about Túrin's role in the End of Days myth?


Well yes to that too because that is the OT!


Elthir said:


> Not that Tolkien's addition* "and Beren Camlost"* was clear in the 1950s, in any case.


A lot of it is not clear


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## Elthir (Jul 17, 2021)

m4r35n357 said:


> Yes, considering JRRT _expected_ CT to get the Simarillion published somehow, I can't believe that he withheld anything!



Well, about this, I'll have to disagree to agree


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## m4r35n357 (Jul 17, 2021)

Well I probably pushed that harder than i intended, but I'm just being practical


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