# Maiar's, those guys



## Anfauglith (Dec 22, 2001)

Who are the Maiar's really?? are they more powerfull than Sauron??. What can do a Maiar(like Saruman, Radagast or Gandalf)with the RING. Can they get all the power from it, or even more than Sauron. Just wondering.


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## Talierin (Dec 22, 2001)

Sauron is a Maia......


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## aragil (Dec 23, 2001)

Balrog's are maia. A lot of people think that Tom Bombadil and Goldberry are maia.

They were beings of lesser power created by Eru at the same time as he made the Valar, prior to making the world. I guess if you considered teh Valar to be gods, then the maia would be demigods, older than the earth, and immortal, with the ability to take on whatever form they wished.


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## Greymantle (Dec 23, 2001)

And as for the Ring... _any_ creature would be able to weild to to great effect, given the knowledge. At the time of the War of the Ring those best suited to it would presumably by the truly active Istari, Sauron, Galadriel, Elrond and Aragorn.... three of whom are Maia. But any creature could weild it.


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## graen (Dec 28, 2001)

> by the truly active Istari, Sauron, Galadriel, Elrond and Aragorn.... three of whom are Maia



Um...which 3 are Maia? 

Sauron = corrupted Maia
Galadriel = elf
Elron = half-elf
Aragorn = human

Am I missing something?


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## Beorn (Dec 28, 2001)

Maybe by truly active Istari, he meant Radagast & Gandalf. Radagast wasn't doing much, but he wasn't going against the cause of the Istari....


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## Kementari (Dec 28, 2001)

Aragorn and Elrond both have Maiar-blood in them..........


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## Greymantle (Dec 28, 2001)

I'm not remembering Elrond's geneology very well... wait, was Luthien the daughter of Thingol and Melian? Oh yes, now I get it... that explains Aragorn too. Hey, I just answered my own question.


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## Dengen-Goroth (Dec 29, 2001)

Yes, imagine that both Numenor blood and maiar blood in that one. But the ring has one owner, Sauron, and in anothers hands it would corrupt and best them, and they would become Lords of Evil themselves.


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## Kementari (Dec 29, 2001)

i knew it


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## Walter (Jan 2, 2002)

*Maiar, those guys*

In the beginning the Creator (Ilúvatar) and the Ainur (sing.: Ainu), who were the offspring of Ilúvatar's mind, created the world through what Tolkien calls the "Music of The Ainur". And of course one of them - poor Melkor, who else - couldn't keep the tune and sang out of tune - probably some weird rap or something: _but it was loud and vain and endlessly repeated..._ - and good old Erú (that was Ilúvatar's nickname) at first only raised an eyebrow at Melkor, but Melkor - stubborn and having a few temper tantra - still refused to learn reading of music and sing properly in the chorus-line. Lateron everyone started yelling at him and he was expelled and he had to remain outside, when the others would sing, humming to himself his own song, kicking stars, shaking fists at his collegues and pondering how he could get back at them for he of course wanted the others to play his song instead of the other way round and hence came the evil into the world in the very beginning...

14 of those Ainur-guys (those are called the Valar [sing.: Vala] with Manwe being their foreman or even the boss) and a couple of sub-ordinates (called the Maiar [sing.: Maia] were ordered to do the rough work of preparing Arda - and Middle-Earth in particular - for Ilúvatar's children (Elves and Men) so they would find everything nice and cozy on their arrival. Some of those jobs were really tough like creating light, sea, rising the mountains (can You imagine what a crazy job that one must be?), trees, rivers and later even the sun and the moon, short: anything and everything. 

Still Melkor wanted to have everything his way and destroyed a lot that they had made and kept hindering and offending Valar and especially poor Maiar who were working their hineys off to fulfil the orders of Manwe, their slavedriver who had them working overtime and underpaid on behalf of Ilúvatar. The latter also being the reason that Melkor had an easy play to do some headhunting and hire a few of Manwe's Maiar (probably he was paying better or they changed employance because of the "fringe-benefits" Melkor could offer). Sauron was one of those and a few other ones that got new jobs as Balrogs and their main job back then was it to scare the hell outta the poor innocent Children of Ilúvatar or the dwarves (I'm not quite sure though what exactly a job-description for a Balrog looks like or Gothmog would've already gotten my application-letter...) and hence annoy Valar and Maiar even more. 

----- added in the last revision ----
And of course there was anotherone of the Maiar we must not forget: Melian the most beautiful of their kindred that dwelled in Middle-Earth, having created a small garden of eden in Doriath with her beloved husband Thingol the multi named (also known as Greymantle, Greycloak, Elwe Sindacollo, Elwe Singollo or the hidden king...) and they would have "lived happily ever after..." there, had not Thingol tried to get hold of an apple from the forbidden tree (in this case one of the Silmarils that at this time unfortunately was part of Melkor's crown). He finally got it due to his brave daughter and son in law (wish my mother in law would read that story...) but on the long run that of course could not end well and so - after a while - he lost wife, silmaril and life...
----- end add ------------------------

And even much later in the 3rd age - Melkor had been fired long before and Sauron had taken over Melkor's job as CEO of the "Dark Forces Inc." - another handful of the Maiar (well, at least sorta) had been sent over from the almighty west to meddle in the competition between "Children of Ilúvatar Inc." also known as "Elves/Men-Alliance" vs. the "Dark Forces Inc." - something like the fight between Unix/Linux vs. Microsoft (Apple probably being the Dwarves, but anyway, I am getting side-drawn) - to side with the Elves and the Men. Those guys were called the Istari (Gandalf, Saruman or Radagast were of their kind)

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As for Aragorn having Maiar-blood: If anything at all it can be a homoeopathic dose at best - unless there has been something between Aragorns mother and one of the Maiar around...


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## Melian (Jan 2, 2002)

How have I missed this discussion about my descend so far?!
Well,let me make it clear,in the words of a true Maia:
Eru-the supreme power of everything
Valar-the second mightiest beings
Maia-servants of the Valar.
In short,Maia are lesser in comparison to Valar,but superior to Eldar and Edain.
One more thing-in Middle-Earth we have some interesting Maia-race representatives:Melian,Sauron,the Eagles,the Balrogs,the Istari....am I omitting some?
As you see,they are different in appearance,but they have one thing in common-they are the most powerful creatures in ME.Therefore,in my opinion,The Ring would be most dangerous in their hands.


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## Eonwe (Jan 2, 2002)

dwarves = Apple

That is interesting!

dwarves=Apple
Elves=Unix, Linux
Men=Windows
Ents=DOS (let's not be hasty)
Orcs=BeOS
Trolls=Windows XP
Eagles=Qnx

Speaking as a Maia (I stayed in Aman until the tiny people asked for my help, then I kicked Morgoth's butt) Maia in some cases seem to be similar to great men/elves and in some cases as great as Vala (well close, I like to think). There seems to be quite a range of abilities in the Maia ranks


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## Melian (Jan 2, 2002)

Agreed,colleague!


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## Eonwe (Jan 2, 2002)

Hey Melian what's the deal with that Elf you wed? A Maia not good enough for ya? I look pretty good in my armor huh? What's wrong with me?

Elwe Singollo Thingol etc. He was just an Elf and YOU HAD THE POWER!

What a girdle you had too!


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## Walter (Jan 2, 2002)

How could I possibly forget Melian the Maia, the most beautiful of their kindred that dwelled in Middle-Earth...

My humble apologies... *slaps forehead* ... will have to edit that former post...

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Melian btw,, out of curiousity: where did You find that the eagles were Maiar? I could not verify that...


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## Talierin (Jan 2, 2002)

Ah yes, Apple is like dwarves. I agree with that. Steadfast and loyal.  Even their users (proud to be one!) are rather dwarf-like. Fierce when they want to be, and incredibly loyal. heehee!

Melian--You didn't see this one probably because it was stuck in Bag End for the longest time until I moved it.


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## Melian (Jan 3, 2002)

Eonwe,Walter and Talierin...Whom to begin with?
My Maia blood tells me:"Leave the poor beings to their humble happiness of talking to you and do not notice them."
But I've lived too long in ME to acquire some of your though manners...and I was tempted to reply.
Dear Eonwe,aren't there really any mirrors in your home? 
Dear Walter,keep on trying my son,one day,with the blessings of the Valar,you may come to some enlightment!
Dear Tallierin,what is Bag End?


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## Walter (Jan 3, 2002)

Dear Melian, well thank You, mom,...I think, LOL 

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P.S.: This thread was originally placed in the "Bag End"-forum before it has been moved here...
P.S.P.S.: Nonetheless I am still courious where You found that Eagles are Maiar respectively derive from Maiar...


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## Lantarion (Jan 3, 2002)

The Eagles of M-e were created by Manwe (I think), and a place was created in Beleriand for them to live (can't remember the name now). 

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That's P.P.S (_post post scriptum_), Walter.


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## Walter (Jan 3, 2002)

Pontifex: that's what I thought too. Although it appears to me that it was sort of a "Joint Venture" of Manwë and Yavanna when they created the _kelvar_ and the _olvar_. And if memory serves me well, their place was called _Crissaegrim_ south of Gondolin, the hidden kingdom of Turgon...

P.S.: Still I am curious if there might be another information elsewhere that would place the Eagles among the Maiar...

P.S.P.S.: You are perfectly right about the _post post scriptum_...


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## Eonwe (Jan 3, 2002)

lotsa mirrors deary! OK I'm not gonna continue discussing that at the risk of... I'll leave you to your Elf hubby.

I don't think eagles were Maia. I mean ents weren't etc. Do you think? I mean really, Gwaihir as important as Melian?


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## Tuor (Jan 3, 2002)

Melian, are the Eagles really Maiar? fascinating.


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## Melian (Jan 5, 2002)

Well,I must admit I can't clearly remember whether they were Maia,or created by Manwe,or whatever...I thought someone would correct my mistake(if there is some and if he or she is brave enogh ).
Eonwe,you are the first socially unskillful Maia I have ever heard of.How do you expect to impress a woman by making jokes about the husband she has chosen?!


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## The Phony Pope (Jan 5, 2002)

I guess Elrond and Aragorn do have Maia blood in them, but it would be very distant, especially for Aragorn (who is extremely distantly related to Elrond).

Luthien and Beren had Dior who had Elwing as a daughter. Elwing married Earendil who then had Elrond and Elros, so Elrond would have quite a bit of Maia blood in him. Aragorn on the other hand, has hardly any

Elros had Vardamir, who had Tar-Amandil, who had Tar-Elendil. He had Silmarien, who then had Valandil. From him came the Lords of Adunie. From them came Earundur, who had Amandil, who then bore Elendil. Elendil's son was Isildur. Isildur had Valandil, who had Eldacar, who had Arantar, who then had Tarcil. Tarcil had Tarondor, who had Valandur, who had Elendur, who then bore Earendur. His son was Amlaith, who had a son named Beleg, who had Mallor, who bore Celepharn. Celepharn's son was Malvegil, who had Argeleb, who had Arveleg, who's son was Araphor. He then had Argeleb, who had Arvegil, who had Arveleg, who then had a son named Araval. Araval had Araphant, who bore Arvedui, who had a son named Aranarth. Aranarth had Arhael, who had Arunuir, who had Aravir, who then had Aragorn I. Aragorn had Araglas, whos son was Arahad. Aragost then had Aravorn (were nearing the end now folks), who had Arahad. His son was named Arassuil, who had Arathorn I, who had Argonui, who then had Arador. His son was Arathorn II, who then bore the Aragorn we all know and love. 

So although Aragorn does have Maia blood, it is very, very distant.

This is on a subject which was talked about a while ago in this thread, and yes, I do have a lot of time on my hands.


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## Eonwe (Jan 5, 2002)

Melian -- I am pretty good with my voice though! Hail Melian the Mighty! HAHA I could use some coaching, men are pigs 

Phony Pope -- that was very good. However remember this! Legolas himself commented on how the line of Luthien never fails, and specifically talked about Aragorn in relation to Beren and Luthien. While I agree its been a while...

Arvedui died so strangely in the bay of Forochel (I think?), good thing he gave the ring of Felagund to the ice men.


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## Gothmog (Jan 5, 2002)

Concerning Ents and Eagles.

there is a possibility that the first of the Eagles and Ents were indeed Maiar.



> And Manwe said: O Kementari, eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the valar suppose that I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared.



The Silmarillion: _Of Aule and Yavanna_ 

To summon 'Spirits from afar' suggests from outside of Arda which would be more Ainur who on coming to Arda would then be Maiar.

This is not certain but is a definate possibility but would refer only to the very first of each type.


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## Earnil (Jan 7, 2002)

I actually made a family tree type thing which shows how many of the elves and humans were linked in relation. But unfortunately I can't put it on the computer because it takes up about 4 or 6 A3 sheets of paper. It is quite big. And it lists all of the Aragorn's ancestors and relations.


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## Melian (Jan 8, 2002)

Good God!Do your relatives know what you have undertaken?!They might be worried...


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## Walter (Jan 8, 2002)

Yes, Gothmog, rereading that passage it appears possible, I wonder if there is more said about that elsewhere...


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## Valar (Jan 8, 2002)

Do any of you guys thing that goldberry was a maia? She is the daughter of the river and all that, and Tom bombadil is a maia isn't he? Or is she just another 'spirit' like the ents?


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## Aelin (Mar 8, 2005)

I don't think that goldberry or Tom are maiars. They are the pert of Arda, any maiar or valar has any power on them


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## Durin's Bane (Mar 8, 2005)

Spirits from afar doesnt't necessairily mean that any of them is a maia, besides the first eagles were servants of Manve...
Goldberry is the riverdaughter, meaning that i don't think she is a maia.
Concerning Bombadil... I don't think that anyone really knows what he is...


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