# Concerning Hippies



## Michel Delving (Feb 3, 2003)

The popularity of Lord of the Rings was escalated by it's adoption by the hippy movement in the Seventies. This baffled Professor Tolkien, as we know, but fueled the fires of the best seller that we know today. It also sent LotR into that fantasy abyss frequented by Boris Vallejo and more lately by Harry Potter. All well and good but nowhere near Tolkien's stature. This legacy lasts to this day as many people see it as a children's book about elves and fairies. As much ridicule as you throw at it, however, runs off the proverbial duck. Tolkien succeeded in creating a modern Myth absent in 20th century life. As science devastated religious belief we needed an alternative faith. Tolkien absorbs us completely into a real world. A _middle_ world between here and eternity. 

A colleague of mine got a big bumper £20 edition last Christmas (that's 2001 mind) and he is still only up to the start of The Two Towers. THIRTEEN MONTHS! He'd rather do the crossword in his break! Various office girls are aghast that he's reading it at all. Like the waitress said to Bill Hicks: "Why are you reading?" - not _What?_ but _Why?_ 

The best book of the last 1000 years? The best book ever. Bigger and better than Jesus H. Christ.


----------



## FoolOfATook (Feb 3, 2003)

Anyone who can quote Bill Hicks is officially on the "cool" list, even if they are just another virus in tennis shoes.


----------



## Hobbit-GalRosie (Feb 3, 2003)

All very interesting, and I must say I can't understand those people who would call it a children's story that belongs on the same shelf as Harry Potter, which I don't personally like.

However, I take offense that you say it's bigger and better than Jesus. Part of the reason it's so great is that it's a mirror of the real world, a new way to look at God's creation, and Tolkien would be horrified to hear you say that. Since it's only the second most read book after the Bible I'd have to say that Jesus has remained more popular than LotR, and smily face or no that statement is just plain offensive, I didn't like it when the Beatles said something similar, although I'm still a fan of theirs, and it doesn't sound any sweeter now. On this forum we're supposed to refrain from derogatory remarks against a particular group of people, so I've never even said anything to people whom I knew were of other faiths I don't like much, but for some reason you're allowed to make fun of Christians and our God as much as you like! I'm not saying it takes anything away from how valid the rest of your post was, and it was a most interesting read for me. But I would simply and nicely request that you stop insulting me without any real reason.


----------



## Eliot (Feb 3, 2003)

I don't think he was making fun of Christianity or even you. Even if he was, Christians aren't supposed to care at all if they're being made fun of. I'm a Christian, and I don't care if I'm ridiculed, or persecuted. It's part of the Christian life. Don't let little stuff like that tick you off, even if it does offend God. It's not our responsibility to judge people for their wrongs. In time, God will do the judging.

I'm sorry to say, but I think Jesus Christ will probably be less popular then LOTR (or anything else that's widely popular) in the near future. I know It IS pretty sad, but it will most likely happen.


----------



## Gothmog (Feb 3, 2003)

*Mod's comment*

Hobbit-GalRosie, Why do you say "but for some reason you're allowed to make fun of Christians and our God as much as you like!"? If you think that there is a problem with the post there is a link on the bottom of each post 'Report this post to a moderator' This link is there because there are more members than there are Mods and if you find a post you feel is in need of our attention you can use the link to bring it to our notice.

As for the post itself, It seems to me that it is not making fun of Christianity, but stating an opinion. This opinion may be right or wrong but it is only one persons view. I cannot see any attack on a religion, only a comparison.


----------



## Hadhafang (Feb 3, 2003)

I am a devout Catholic and believe that Gothmog is right. Michel Delving has the right to believe what ever he wants to believe. Futhermore, he didn't directly insult anyone or anyone's faith. He stated his opinion.

That said....I do not agree with the notion that LOTR is greater than Jesus. More importantly, Tolkien himself would not agree either. Most of the themes of the Lord of the Rings are derived from Tolkien's devout Christianity. i.e. 'through forgiveness is redemption', 'do not deal out death in judgement', or 'even the meek can shape the good fortunes of all.'

LOTR is a reflection of Tolkien's Christianity and can therefore not be greater than ideal that it emulates....not to mention that the 'bigger than Jesus' idea is a completely uncreative John Lennon rip off in the first place.


----------



## Michel Delving (Feb 4, 2003)

*Devils Advocado*

Well sported. My appropriation of Mr Lennon's outburst was
of-course deliberate. The hysteria that surrounded that throw away remark has now been ridiculed by time. Look back on the b+w footage of redneck record burning bonfires and smile, like a sage. The only disaster (at the time) was economic - less Beatles record sales - which is insignificant in wider the canvas the of History of Rock and Mankind. What was important was the statement he made was true. What good are royalties to John now?

What I meant was, the Lord of the Rings means more to me than the Bible. Religion of any kind has no meaning for me. It is the cause of wars and destruction and removed from it's source material by the overzealous interpretation of the individual. Look how much horror has been perpetrated in the name of faith. You can't even say things out loud about certain religions without fear of death. Religion is as much fiction as Middle Earth but at least LotR knows it's myth, maps and legend. And it satisfies, in a micro/macrocosmic way the archetypes that flow through our brain and bones.

As above and echoing again Mr Hicks: if it offends your Christian beliefs: then forgive me as your religion demands.


----------



## Ithrynluin (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: Devils Advoca*



> _Originally posted by Michel Delving _
> *
> What I meant was, the Lord of the Rings means more to me than the Bible. Religion of any kind has no meaning for me. It is the cause of wars and destruction and removed from it's source material by the overzealous interpretation of the individual. Look how much horror has been perpetrated in the name of faith. You can't even say things out loud about certain religions without fear of death. Religion is as much fiction as Middle Earth but at least LotR knows it's myth, maps and legend. And it satisfies, in a micro/macrocosmic way the archetypes that flow through our brain and bones.
> *



Well said, Michel. I feel likewise.


----------



## Hobbit-GalRosie (Feb 4, 2003)

Hello again...Okay, I had to state my opinion also that your opinion was an offensive one. I probably should have just PMed you and saved a lot of trouble, so for posting it here where everyone knows about it I do apologize. I just had to make the point, and realizing that few would agree with me I didn't bother to report the post. I realize you have an opinion, and you have the right to it; I hope I didn't you give you the idea I ever thought the contrary. I know you have a point about wars over religion, a practice I could never understand since most of the religions it is done for supposedly support peace. I honestly felt that this was an attack on a religious basis, and perhaps I felt wrongly, but I doubt it.

And of course I forgive you, I didn't want to start a "virtual" war over this, but I had to speak my mind. You're completely entitled to believe or not believe whatever you wish. I just thought it was unnecessary and hateful to add that particular phrase there. If you had explained your position more fully as you now have without attacking my beliefs I'd have never had a problem with it. You had your opinions, and I offered mine in return. I made a request that you wouldn't use a certain kind of phraseology, but I tried to do so in a very respectful way. If I failed in that respect you have my most sincere apology, but I do not wish to retract the point I made rather poorly, that there were other ways to say what you did without attacking anyone. I think you are a very intelligent and interesting person, and I hope this hasn't spoiled any chance I had to get to know you better and learn from your insights. I suspect now that it has, and so it is a great tragedy for me. In the end no one can win in a situation like this, but I can't be sorry I brought it up. All I can do now is pray that you could find it in your heart to forgive me as I have forgiven you.


----------



## Bergile (Feb 4, 2003)

Right on Michel, i agree with you there, but i dont think this is the place to be having deep theological debates, or maybe it is, who cares. Anyway, I've found religious people can be a little sensitive when youre dissing their faith, as i found when i tried to convert a friend to atheism heheheh.


----------



## Michel Delving (Feb 5, 2003)

*Hobbit-GalRosie et al*

The problem with forums etc is it's very difficult to convey tone of voice in plain text. I know we have emoticons/smilies etc but you can't beat an ironic lilt to the voice. I may be reading my posts, in my mind, in a jocular tone while you read it in a authoritative or argumentative tone. 

There's nothing to forgive after all. We're all fiends....i mean friends...here.      

Meet me in Bree for frothy one at the Pony  .


----------



## HelplessModAddi (Feb 6, 2003)

This place is SO much cooler that Campaign Creations. At CC, this thread would probably have gone something like this:

Guy 1) Hmm... I have a serious statement to make...

Guy 2) Who cares? Christians SUCK!!!

Guy 3) FLAMER!!

Guy 2) No spammers!

Guy 4) Guy 2 will GO TO HELL!!

Moderator) YOU ALL WILL BE BANNED!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Hobbit-GalRosie (Feb 9, 2003)

Omigosh, that's hysterical HelplessModAddi, and very true unfortunately. I'm very glad people are in general more civil here and Moderaters more...moderate, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, Michel Delving, I'd be glad to meet you for a frothy one, except being a most respectable and unadventurous Hobbit I've never been out of Hobbiton before, so I'll need directions     .


----------



## Helcaraxë (Feb 19, 2004)

Was Jesus's middle initial really "H" ?


----------



## Iluvatar (Feb 19, 2004)

Helcaraxë said:


> Was Jesus's middle initial really "H" ?



Nope. But it does stand in well for 'Holy.'


----------



## Sarde (Feb 20, 2004)

'Christ' wasn't his 'last name' either. It's a title, not a name. It's not like he was the son of Mary Christ.


----------



## Tinuvien21 (Feb 21, 2004)

It could be a translation from on of his many names. He is:
_Lord, Faithful Witness,Good News, Holy One of God, Holy Spirit, Image of God,
The Word,the Truth,The Life,Exalted,Dearly Loved Son,Almighty,God of Our Salvation,Lily of the Valley, Rose of Sharon, Worthy of Praise, Alpha and Omega, The Amen, Ancient of Days,Eternal King, Everlasting Father, Everlastin Light, the First and the Last, Ruler, Jesus, Word of Life, Sacrifice, Deliverer, Eternal Spring, God Who Forgives, Our Mediator, Lamb of God, Merciful, Gracious God, Prophet of the Most High, Sacrifice for Sins,Radiance of God's Glory, strong Saviour, Sovereign, Son of David, Firstborn Son, Immanuel, Christ, Gift of God, Prince of Peace, Our Advocate, Author and Perfector of Our Faith,The Rock, The Good Shepherd, My Shield, Jehovah, Jehovah-Rophe (My Healer)
Jehovah-Jireh (My Provider)
Jehovah- Nissi (My Protector) 
Jehovah-Rohi (My Shepherd)_


----------

