# Thuringwethil



## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 11, 2006)

> _Wikipedia says:
> _Her cloak was used as Luthien's disguise when she entered Angband on the Quest of the Silmaril. Thuringwethil was a Maia vampire messenger of Sauron. She had two bat-wings that were barbed with an iron claw at each joint.



so what was her fate? did they kill her? or did she merely get stripped of her cloak? and if she was one, were there others? was there an army of maia vampires?


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## Withywindle (Feb 11, 2006)

I don´t know what her fate was. Presumably, as with other Maiar she simply lost that physical form forever and for a time was an empty spirit. As to other vampires etc, there must have been many other evil spirits, some greater some smaller who took the terrible forms of evil creatures. The vampires and the werewolves come first to mind, also we might consider the evil consciousness which inhabited the forms of the dragons.

Certainly we know that Melkor corrupted many Maiar in the beginning, and when he assails the Lamps he had a "host" some of which are Balrogs, but the number of the Balrogs, whatever that may be, cannot account for a host.


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## Ingwë (Feb 13, 2006)

As far as I know we aren't told about her fate. But I'm sure Beren and Luthien didn't kill her - they aren't killers. I think that Thuringwethil escaped and went to live somewhere in the dark forests of Beleriand, just like Sauron. I think she was killed when the Valar destroyed BEleriand


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 13, 2006)

Ingwë said:


> As far as I know we aren't told about her fate. But I'm sure Beren and Luthien didn't kill her - they aren't killers. I think that Thuringwethil escaped and went to live somewhere in the dark forests of Beleriand, just like Sauron. I think she was killed when the Valar destroyed BEleriand



Yes, perhaps she spent a long time in Dorthonion convalescing, gathering her broken strength (if she had any), and fled to Middle-earth after the breaking of Beleriand, much like the Balrog did. Maybe she found herself a nice, dark abode in a place like Mirkwood, preying on unwary travellers (and partying up with the spiders ).


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## baragund (Feb 14, 2006)

This subject came up the other day in the "Guess the Pic" thread. It piqued my curiosity so I posted this:

I looked her up in the published Silmarillion and here is her description:



> She was the messenger of Sauron, and was wont to fly in vampire's form to Angband; and her great fingered wings were barbed at each joint's end with an iron claw.



Who was she? Was she a Maia? Was she really just a messenger or was she more like a trusted assistant or companion? And what ever became of her? If I'm not mistaken, this is the only female villian, who has a human form, in all of Tolkien's writings.

Thorondor was so kind to provide this quote from the commentary of The Lays of Lethian:



> Luthien's naming herself Thuringwethil to Morgoth is notable. In The Silmarillion the bat-fell which Huan brought from Tol-in-Gaurhoth was that of Thuringwethil. "she was the messenger of Sauron, and was wont to fly in vampire's form to Angband', whereas in the Lay as I have noticed 'the bat-wings are only said to be such as bear up Thu's messengers, and are not associated with a particular or chief messenger'. It seems possible that in the Lay Luthien devised this name ('she of hidden shadow') as a riddling description of herself, and that this led to the conception of the bat-messenger from the Wizard's Isle to Angband named Thuringwethil; but there is no proof of this. With the: "sylphine maidens of the Air/ whose wings in Varda's heavenly hall/ in rhythmic movement beat and fall", cf. the tale of The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor , where it is said that with Manwe and Varda there entered the world 'many of those lesser Vali who loved them and had played nigh them and attuned their music to theirs, and these are the Manir and the Suruli, the sylphs of the airs and of the winds'.



It would make sense to me that Thuringwethil was one of these sylphs who happened to be seduced and corrupted by Melkor and/or Sauron. But it opens up so many possibilities! Thuringwethil could have been made into a companion, a partner or a mate.

One of those unexplored vistas Tolkien left behind...


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 15, 2006)

that's why I love Tolkien, his works are so mysterious in some ways, I mean there are so many questions unanswered, so many mysteries, riddles, and etc... As Gandalf said, "You can learn all there is to know about them, and in 1000 years they can still suprise you." well here's mine:

"you can learn all there is to know about the books, and in re-reading it can still suprise you." 

There are so many small details and all that makes his work so great. I'm just rambling on because its like 10 am and im chuggin down on pepsi


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