# The best warrior?



## Ithrynluin (Apr 10, 2003)

Who is the best warrior of Tolkien's Middle Earth in your opinion, and why? This includes all creatures except the Ainur.

Possible choices:

MEN:
- Túrin
- Aragorn
- Beren
- Húrin
- Tuor
- Huor
- Eowyn
- Isildur
- Barahir
...etc

ELVES:
- Fingolfin
- Fingon
- Turgon
- Glorfindel
- Ecthelion
- Fëanor
- Gil-galad
- Celeborn
- Elrond
- Beleg Strongbow
- Mablun
- Eärendil
- Legolas (?!)
...etc

DWARVES
- Azaghal
- Dain Ironfoot I
- Gimli
...etc..


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## YayGollum (Apr 10, 2003)

I'd go for Feanor since he's my favorite. All of those other dudes are boring compared to him.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 10, 2003)

Men-You cannot argue that it isn't Hurin.

Elves-Why Legolas is there I'll never know. Elrond may have been a competent warrior in the Last Alliance but 'Laws and Customs' tells us that as Elven Neri who were competent healers lose their fighting abilities so to speak. 

Hmm....I think that it would be either Fingolfin, Fingon, Feanor or Maedhros and maybe Beleg. 

As for Dwarves problably Azhagal.


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 10, 2003)

It would either be Ecthelion or Hurin, because Ecthelion slew Gothmog, but according to the Silmarillion, Hurin was the greatest warrior of men to ever live.

tough choice...


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## Eriol (Apr 10, 2003)

Based on sheer feats of war, Húrin, Fingolfin and probably Azaghâl...


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## Anamatar IV (Apr 10, 2003)

Beleg Strongbow would be atop my list if Fingolfin and Hurin and Turin...(list goes on) hadn't been there.

But in all honesty I would say Fingolgin, Hurin, Turin, Beleg.


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## Niniel (Apr 11, 2003)

Hmmm... that's difficult.. Of Men definitely Húrin, but of the Elves I'm not sure. But if I have to pick one I'd say Ecthelion.


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## Aiwendil2 (Apr 11, 2003)

I'd say Hurin for Men, though he has some pretty strong competition from his son, and also from Beren. But I suppose that Beren's prowess was more in woodcraft and stealth than in direct combat.

Fingolfin has a fairly decent claim as the greatest Elven warrior, though of course we don't know how any of the others would have fared if they had fought Morgoth. An argument could be made for Feanor too, who fought long and valiantly alone before finally being slain by Gothmog. And of course we must consider Ecthelion, who actually killed Gothmog. But was Earendil's slaying of Ancalagon any lesser feat? I guess in the end I'd still go for Fingolfin, though it's by no means a clear choice.

As for Dwarves - not nearly as many options there. I suppose Azaghal would be my choice.

Overall, I guess I'd have to say Fingolfin.


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## Beleg (Apr 11, 2003)

> Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the
> woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days,



He was probably the Best of the Sindar, but not the elves on whole.

In Elves, Fingolfin, Fingon.

In Men, Tùrin, Hùrin. 

In Dwarves, Azaghul, Dain Ironfoot 2.


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## Elendil3119 (Apr 11, 2003)

Men - I would have to say either Hurin or Turin. 

Elves - That is a much harder choice. I would probably choose Feanor, or Fingon. 

I have absolutely no clue about the Dwarves.


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## Turgon (Apr 11, 2003)

Húrin and Azaghâl seem like obvious choices for men and dwarves respectively. As for the Elves I would say it's a straight choice between Fingolfin and Fëanor. Though in a hypothetical battle between the two I think things would go badly for Fingolfin - few there are who could stand against Fëanor when the fire was burning in his belly.

But what about hobbits Ithrynluin? Why aren't we looking for a mighty hobbit warrior too? Pippin, Merry, Bandobras, Sméagol and the mighty Lobelia S.B. to name but a few...


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## Elendil3119 (Apr 11, 2003)

We could also include Orcs, though I think that Azog would win hands-down.


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Turgon _
> *But what about hobbits Ithrynluin? Why aren't we looking for a mighty hobbit warrior too? Pippin, Merry, Bandobras, Sméagol and the mighty Lobelia S.B. to name but a few... *



Sure, we can go looking for a hobbit warrior too. Though quite frankly, I don't see how anyone could stand up to Lobelia Sackville-Baggins! 



> We could also include Orcs, though I think that Azog would win hands-down.



Ugluk was no weakling either!


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 11, 2003)

> And so passed the greatest of the Warriors of Men in Middle-Earth.


From The Silmarillion concerning Hurin.


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## YayGollum (Apr 11, 2003)

Gollum was stronger than most hobbitses for some crazy reason. But then, he wasn't much of a warrior. I can't really picture him running around with armour and a shield and a sword and everything, charging into battle with a ---> "For the Preciousss!" battle cry. Maybe a shield, but that's about it. He's too smart to be a warrior. He kills people only when he has to and in a smart way. Wasn't there some big and crazy hobbit warrior that started golf a while ago? I'd pick him.


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 11, 2003)

Haha...

As much as I think Gollum is a great warrior, Sam knocked him down, and killed a giant hobbit-eating spider. I would vote Sam as warrior among hobbits. Or possibly Merry for killing me...


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Aug 2, 2003)

*Beleg_strongbow:* I think your quote means that Beleg was the greatest *woodsman* in Beleriand in the Elder Days, not necessarily the best warrior of the Sindar, because there are also these lines:

UT, _Narn I Hîn Húrin_:


> Beleg the Strongbow was hunting in that region, for he dwelt ever upon the marches of Doriath, and *he was the greatest woodsman of those days*.


 _The Silmarillion_:


> not even in the dreadful woods of Taur-nu-Fuin did he swerve from the trail, for *the skill of Beleg was greater than any that have been in Middle-earth*





> Now Beleg was sorely wounded, but *he was mighty among the Elves of Middle-earth*, and he was moreover a master of healing. Therefore he did not die, and slowly his strength returned


 That line doesn't necessarily mean that he was a great warrior either, just that he could endure a lot of hurt.  But of what he did in the stories, he did seem to be a great warrior, and either he or Thingol was probably the greatest warrior of the Sindar.


About whether Fingolfin or Fëanor was the better warrior:

_The Silmarillion_:


> Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. *Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant.*


 I have always interpreted this to mean that Fingolfin was the best fighter of the three brothers.


Just another quote about Húrin:

UT, _Narn I Hîn Húrin_:


> Then Gethron spoke the message of Morwen before Thingol and Melian; and Thingol received them kindly, and set Túrin upon his knee in honour of *Húrin, mightiest of Men*, and of Beren his kinsman.


But this maybe refers to the fact that Húrin was the mightiest of all Men in terms of leadership at the time?


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## Feanorian (Aug 3, 2003)

> Beleg_strongbow: I think your quote means that Beleg was the greatest woodsman in Beleriand in the Elder Days, not necessarily the best warrior of the Sindar, because there are also these lines:



Well I think Beleg was the total package............because on top of all the quotes you brought for him here is another:


> One only was mighter in arms among the march-wardens of Thingol at that time than Turin, and that was Beleg Cuthalion; and Beleg and Turin were companions in every peril, and walked far and wide in the wild woods together.



So this quote on top of the obvious fact that Turin was an incredible warrior this shows that Beleg was also spectacular.


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## Lhunithiliel (Aug 3, 2003)

Men - 
Hurin and Huor (they somehow go in a "set"  )

Elves - 
Fingolfin - as a single warrior BUT also
Maedhros - as a war strategist and a fighter of course too!

As for Dwarves - I don't know... I've never been too much interested in them...I'm sorry


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## Turin (Aug 4, 2003)

For men: Turin, for elves:Glorfindel, and for dwarves: I have no idea. By the way nice avatar BC.


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## Meselyn (Aug 5, 2003)

I think that aragorn is the best. I like the fact that he's the heir to the throne. He never forgets what the goal at hand is. He also never gives up in a fight. Hey just watch the first movie and look at the way he jumped in at the last moment to save Boromirs body from being teribbly slaughtered and cut up.


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## Turin (Aug 5, 2003)

I think were talking about the books, If you've read any of the books outside of LOTR then you would know that there are alot better warriors than Aragorn.


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## Lafeinyis (Aug 7, 2003)

Personly Glorfindel...just becus I like him the best!


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## Ardamir the Blessed (Aug 11, 2003)

Interesting quote, *Feanorian* - it might imply that Beleg was a better warrior than Túrin overall, or at least on the marches.


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## Feanorian (Aug 11, 2003)

Thats what I thought, this part of the quote:



> One only was mighter in arms among the march-wardens of Thingol *at that time* than Turin



But I think Turin overall was better then Beleg..............*eventually*


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## Turin (Aug 11, 2003)

I'm glad you came to that conclusion.


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## HelplessModAddi (Aug 17, 2003)

The answer depends on one simple fact: if Ancalagon fought Melkor, who would win?

Because Fingolfin physically wounded Morgoth, but Earendil slew Ancalagon, and you have to remember that Ancalagon and company freaked out the Valar themselves.


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## Confusticated (Aug 17, 2003)

Just thought Aegnor's name should be mentioned in this thread among the great warriors. 

I don't know who was the greatest.

As has been pointed out by people already, we can't know how some would have done in the others' position.

But there are so many different types of warriors, different skills and weapons, that two may be equaly great and one would fall to a specific foe that the other would not, all because of the combination of skills required in the battle.


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## Celebthôl (Aug 17, 2003)

Men: Túrin, why should it be Húrin? Unless there is something in UT and/or HoME about him, (i dont have either)

Elves: Fingolfin clearly

Dwarves: Dáin II Ironfoot


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## Inderjit S (Aug 17, 2003)

> Men: Túrin, why should it be Húrin? Unless there is something in UT and/or HoME about him





> But it is said that Hurin would not live thereafter, being bereft of purpouse and desire, and cast himself at last in the Western Sea; and so ended the mightiest of the warriors of mortal men


 _Ruin of Doriath; Published Silamrillion_ 

But I agree why should it be Hurin? He only slew 70 Trolls.  

Angrod the 'iron-handed' should also be on that list.


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## William Amos (Aug 17, 2003)

Well instead of the Best just recognize the most worthy...


I vote for Fingolfin for his fight with Morgoth. Only non Vala to fight a valar. 7 times he smote morgoth and 7 times he cried out and the hosts of Morgoth fell on their faces.


Give credit to Luthien too for enchanting Morgoth and Sauron. She obviously had some major power.

Beren Never fought well in the narriated parts of Simarillion. But he fought well enough that Morgoth put a price on his head as high as the King of the Elves Fingon.

Give credit also to the three known Dragonslayers. Earendil, Turin and Bard the bowman. 

Dain Ironfoot I think rules as the best Dwarf Figher. He slew azoz (as a stripling) and stood over the body of King Brand as the night fell at the battle of the lonly mountain.

Thrin Oakenshieild also gets mention for his fighting.

Aragorn gets a nod for using all the weapons at his disposal to defeat the enemy. First using anduril to rally troops. Then Confronting Sauron and Challenging him using the Palantiri. Then summoning the Dead Men of Dunharrow to fight against the Balck Fleet. Then Riding to the Gates of Morranon to Challenge Sauron to keep him from searching for Frodo. THis in addition to fighting off 5 Nazgul at Weathertop, Leading the Fleet as Throngil to destroy the Coursairs of Umbar before the War of the ring, and hunting down and capturing Gollum.

Hurin is recognized for only one feat. he was the commander of the men of Dorlomin at the battle of tears Unnumbered. He was the only survivor of that last stand killing 70 trolls that final battle.


I like Helm Hammerhand his stalking in the snow during the first battle of the Hornburg is classic. 

is others if I think about it will post.


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## Maerbenn (Aug 18, 2003)

*Dragon-slayers*



> _Originally posted by William Amos _
> *Give credit also to the three known Dragonslayers. Earendil, Turin and Bard the bowman.*


 There was also Fram, slayer of Scatha.


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## Iarwain (Sep 1, 2003)

Elves: 1.)Fingolfin 2.)Feanor

Men: 1.)Hurin 2.)Turin

Overall: Fingolfin


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## Link 2 (Apr 6, 2004)

*Greatest Warrior in the History of Arda?*

Pick your favorite warrior from the poll.

In my ranking it's:


Sam (he is badass-ness personified, and could probably fight Iluvatar and win)

Fingolfin (he fought freaking MORGOTH!)

Tuor (slays five balrogs in Fall of Gondolin) + he and Ecthelion force a fire drake into a fountain and kill it.

Ecthelion (slays three in Fall, one of them being Gothmog)

Hurin (40 frickin' trolls)

Earendil (he kills Ancalagon)

Turin (Turin sucks IMO, all he kills is Glaurung, and you know what? Minus a couple more points for him 'cause he did his sister)


etc.......


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## Aulë (Apr 6, 2004)

Rog of the Hammers of Wrath!!!!   
No explanation needed.


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 6, 2004)

Link 2, the BoLT is quite an 'outdated' source of Tolkien's legendarium. It was later noted that there was a maximum number of 7 Balrogs altogether.

Hurin uttered a war cry seventy times as he slew, he did not kill forty trolls. I doubt there were that many guarding Gothmog in the first place.

And Turin was a fearsome warrior who killed a whole lot more than 'just' Glaurung.

I think your evaluation of Sam is highly overrated. His slaying of Shelob was IMO more a matter of immense bravery combined with luck to a lesser extent and his genuine love for his master. I would not put him among the greatest _warriors_.

My choices would probably be Hurin, Turin, Beren, Fingolfin...and a few more. Having to choose only one, I'll go for Turin.

I've added a few other choices to the poll, PM a mod if you think some others should be up there as well.


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## Paul (Apr 7, 2004)

I dont know why shes not on here but definitly Eowyn for her slaying of the witch-king.


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## Eledhwen (Apr 7, 2004)

This is not so simple. The conditions of battle, and the incentive to fight all need to be taken into account. I shall not be polling just yet.


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## Confusticated (Apr 7, 2004)

I picked Hurin because what him and Huor do for the Gondolindrim and especially Hurin's reason for doing it still amazes me. Hurin's defiance of Morgoth in person, as a mortal, is something I can hardly imagine. These are things I'm less like to say "Well many other warrior in his situation would have done the same" about. It is something I love to say of Glorfindel. How many Noldor in a fit of rage could have stood a while against Morgoth? Who knows. Perhaps quite a few. Who knows how long Finwe withstood him. 

If anyone went with sacrifice and real wisdom beyond the call of duty for the greater good it was Hurin and his brother. Though it is also interesting that Huor seemed to have true foreight at that time, a divine gift.


He is also called the _mightiest of the warriors of mortal Men_.

.


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## Ambartur (Apr 7, 2004)

Well, you must also take Feanor into account. Sillmarillion says that he was the mightiest in every way, which includes being a warrior. In the Battle Beneath the Stars, he held off several balrogs by himself (or, for those who are more strict, with few left around him), and only lost 'cause he was stupid and didn't fall back.

My next choice would be Fingolfin. I mean, he took of Morgoth, and whipped him pretty bad before he was taken out, and he only lost because he got tired. And even in the end, he hurt Morgoth pretty bad in the foot before giving up at last.

Next would be Hurin, for mostly the same reasons as Nom expressed. However, I do believe personally that Hurin killed 70 trolls. It says that he was fighting the troll gaurd and that every time he slew, he cried the war cry. If he cried it 70 times, it stands to reason that he did in fact kill 70 of them. But that's only how I perceived it...

I haven't voted yet, so I'll think about it some more...


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## Confusticated (Apr 7, 2004)

Interesting about Feanor. Can he be a great warrior who fought so foolishly? A great warrior who slew the innocent and lightly armed Teleri?


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## Ambartur (Apr 8, 2004)

I don't think this thread is about how foolish one of those warriors may have been. Personally, Feanor is one of my least favorite elves. However, thinking objectively, Feanor, while excessively prideful and foolish, may have been the most powerful warrior of his kind...


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## Confusticated (Apr 8, 2004)

Ambartur said:


> I don't think this thread is about how foolish one of those warriors may have been.


I would say that being a smart warrior is as much a part of being a great warrior as being skilled with a sword is. Especially if the warrior is also a military leader.


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## Ambartur (Apr 8, 2004)

I agree with you. However, intelligence is very different from wisdom...

And there are many different types of wisdom. Perhaps the type of wisdom that Feanor mostly attained was the ability to read others? Or perhaps to predict actions based on perceiving that which one thought?

Most certainly his personal wisdom, the wisdom that drives one to consider others before themselves, and to realize that one does not know everything, failed in his arrogance. And in that, his name is now shamed.

But, once again, I must point out that Feanor was indeed very perceptive, and could predict what one would do in a situation, making him capable of coordinating many things extremely well (I like to think of it as a Grand Admiral Thrawn kind of thing, for those of you who read Star Wars). Therefore I believe him to be greatly capable of leading an army.

However, I must contradict myself. For he also started to expect others to think just as he did. In this way, it seems to me that he did in the end turn to evil. For if one examines the personifications of evil (e.g. Melkor, Sauron), he would find that they think in the exact same way. 

I think I got way off subject there, but there you go...


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## Melian_the_Maya (Apr 14, 2004)

Men: Hurin, but also Beren, who happens to be one of my favourites. 
Aragorn is somewhere high in the hierarchy, but I don't know if I can compare him to Hurin and Beren, who lived in an age when the greatest threat to their kind was He to whom Sauron was but a servant...

Elves: Fingolfin. 
I don't think Elrond is much of a fighter in the typical sense of the word, but his strength lay in knowledge, experience and let's not forget the Ring on his finger. 

Dwarves: Dain Ironfoot 1

It was HelplessModAddi I think who posted something like: it is all reduced to whether Ancalagon were to defeat Morgoth if they fought each other. My answer to that might be a little bit stereotypical, but I think Ancalagon and the Dragon horde were not stupid at all, and only a very powerful hand could hold them together at its service. Therefore, I would say Morgoth was always the most powerful, although indeed Ancalagon surprised the Valar when they came to finish off Morgoth.


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## Thorondor_ (May 28, 2005)

Men: Beren (the bravest warrior; out of love for his beloved one, he went into hell without a second thought);
Elves: Earendil (he kills Ancalagon in direct fight, unlike Turin); the guardian of Melkor - that must be something


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## Ingwë (Jun 13, 2005)

*MEN:
- Húrin*
Húrin is the strongest Man. He was captured after Nirnaeth but after his dead in the Sil he is called the greates warrior of the Men or something like that.  

*ELVES:
- Gil-galad*
LotR: Anarion was slain and Isildur was slain. And *Elendil and Gil-Galad were no more*
This is great moment. I love it! I think Gil was the greatst warrior of the elves

*DWARVES
- Dain Ironfoot I*
The greatest Dwarf.


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## Alatar (Jun 13, 2005)

Fingolfin, fought morgoth in adirect fight, and cut off his foot.


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## ingolmo (Jun 14, 2005)

Really hard. Really hard. Geez.
I guess this is my opinion:
Elves: 1- Fingolfin: Fought Morgoth, and is described as really strong. 
2- Earendil: Killed Ancagalon and a dragon.
3- Glorfindel: Glorfindel strikes me as powerful. Imagine him, an elf- 
lord in his wrath, scaring away the Ringwraiths.
Men: 1- Hurin: The best and the strongest.
2- Turin: Glaurung and many others. 
3- Aragorn: For sheer flair and courage in dark times.
I would put Isildur here, as he defeated Sauron in the physical form, but then a warrior is only about fighting. A warrior need to have courage, wisdom, and good principles. And by taking the Ring, Isuldur was very foolish. 
Hobbitses: 1- Sam
2- Merry
Both for obvious reasons, though they cannot be compared with Elves and Men.


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## Durin's Bane (Jun 14, 2005)

Can we all please look at the lightbulb-changing-thread in stuff and bother. The last line. My point is that this discussion dates from 2003 and than someone raised it again in 2004 and now again...

Anyway, I've always concidered Turin to be tha greatest of warriors not only among his race... (can't tell exactly why though)


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## ingolmo (Jun 16, 2005)

Sorry, I know I'm getting off-topic here, but how come Ithryn can make polls with more than 10 options while we can. Mods can't, or shouldn't to be more precise, use their priveledges to their advantages.


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## Telëlambe (Jun 20, 2005)

Aaagh! How can Turin be ahead of Hurin! 
I voted for Fingolfin, because a warriors warriorness is based on bravery and skill. 
and because he's my favorite.


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## Thorondor_ (Jun 20, 2005)

ingolmo said:


> Sorry, I know I'm getting off-topic here, but how come Ithryn can make polls with more than 10 options while we can. Mods can't, or shouldn't to be more precise, use their priveledges to their advantages.


 
Well, I am for equality & co, but why do you say he used it to his advantage?


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## Alatar (Jun 20, 2005)

Well i think it is because most times, if anyone made a poll, we would not need more than 10, if we did, PM a mod and they will add however many you want.
Oh and If it makes a difference, Ith is a Admin.


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## e.Blackstar (Sep 21, 2005)

Haha! ~merciless bump~

Hurin, Turin, and Beren.

Though I'm a fan of Elladan and Elrohir, so I voted for them.


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## Gabba (Oct 19, 2005)

I do not think that it is possible to compare men with elves in this area. I dont really remember but I seem to recall that men where stronger or thougher built than elves, and this seems to give them some advantages. BUT and I think it is a big but, while the men are motal elves are immortal. This leads me to a conclution than the more fortunate elves have mutch more time to develop their fightingskill than the more unfortunate elves and of caurse men. 

I am not very well learned in elvish lore, and do not rememer all the names, or what they have did. But I would guess Gil-Galad. He saw mutch more war than his first-age friends like Fëanor and Fingolfin.

Still my wote falls on Aragorn. And my reason is that he lived longer than most men, being Nümenoran. Thus gaining more experience. And compared to the other Nümenoran heroes like Elëndil, Aragorn has PROBABLY seen more fighting than they.


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