# Why didn't the valar take care of Sauron?



## Maeglin (Oct 7, 2002)

In that last battle of the first age when the Vala came and wiped out Morgoth and his allies and threw Morgoth into the abyss, why didn't they take care of Sauron then too? They knew that Sauron was only Morgoth's second in command, and he shouldn't have been much of a problem seeing as he once got his butt kicked by a dog, so why didn't they take him too? Was it that maybe he never returned after he took a beating from that dog (I can't remember his name right now) and ran away? And I would say that Sauron had more control over ME than Morgoth had, so why didn't the valar step in when he was taking over? Were they just trying to give Gandalf a chance to prove himself as an istari? If they were they got lucky because Gandalf had to take on both Sauron and Saruman, no easy task, anyway does anyone have any thoughts?


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## YayGollum (Oct 7, 2002)

Oo! I do! They didn't take care of Sauron because he ran away and hid somewhere. He did the same thing earlier, when the Valar dudes caught Morgoth the first time. Also, the dog's name is Huan. No, I don't think they were letting Sauron go just to let Gandalf prove himself. Would they really be that stupid and evil to the guy?


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## Confusticated (Oct 7, 2002)

I deleted my post before anyone else oculd read it. I do not know what I was thinking. I read your entire question which is very clearly stated and I somehow answered an alltogether different one.


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## gate7ole (Oct 7, 2002)

The dog is Huan. A great character of Sil.
Sauron after the lost battle with Huan returned to Angmar and probably stayed there a while to gain back his strength.
After the War of Wrath, Fionwe caught him and Sauron begged for mercy. Fionwe told him to return to Valinor and ask the pardon of Manwe. But Sauron wouldn't dare to do it becuase of his past crimes. So, he fled to the east when the Host of Valinor was cleaning the pits of Thangorodrim. We shouldn't forget that their goal was to overthrow Morgoth and couldn't just run after all his evil creatures that fle after the war. 
In my personal opinion though, it was one of the greatest mistakes of the Valar. They should have caught Sauron by all means.
As for the istari, I don't think that anyone (except maybe Manwe) knew so many details about the future. We shouldn't forget that Isildur's denial to destroy the ring could not have been predicted by anyone (not even Manwe), since the actions of Men were not predefined.


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## Maeglin (Oct 7, 2002)

thanks, that helps a lot


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## YayGollum (Oct 7, 2002)

You're welcome. And Confusticated, I saw it. Didn't really want to pick it apart so I could just say what I said before.  oh well.


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## Lord Aragorn (Oct 8, 2002)

Even though it would've been nicer for all the people of ME if Sauron was indeed captured after the War of Wrath, think of all the great stories that would never have come to pass if it weren't for Sauron himself. Most notably, Akallabeth, Lord of the Rings, and think of what would've happened to poor Bilbo down in that cave if he had never found the ring.


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## Maeglin (Oct 8, 2002)

well if he hadn't found the ring Gollum wouldn't have found it either since it wouldn't exist, so gollum would have died long ago, but there was still the goblin problem


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## Elenaelin (Oct 8, 2002)

One could take that even a stpe further, using the assumption that the goblins may of eventually died out due to the lack of Sauron's dark prescence. You could even surmise that Smaug would not of attacked/ taken possesion of the Lonely Mountain, but then again you wouldn't have the Hobbit


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## Anárion (Oct 11, 2002)

*1,000,000 vs. 1*

Ok, heres a question for those that have finished the Sil.
How come a ton of gods and lots of sindar elves and valar elves and all them couldnt take out 1 maia???
I mean, its like, youd think a god, ANY god for that matter, could take out 1 maia....but nooooooo....they cant do that, the gods that CREATED him are too weak to take him out.....weird.


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 11, 2002)

You have mixed up some concepts I think - by "maia" are you referring to Sauron? If yes then the free peoples of ME had to take initiative to oust Sauron themselves - they (Men in particular) had to prove that they are capable of defending themselves,because their Age was coming and the Gods and Elves were sort of removed from the world of men.
If you were thinking of something else(and you probably did because you directed this question to those that have read the Sil), please clarify what you meant.


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## Anamatar IV (Oct 11, 2002)

i think you mean Melkor. Who was a valar. Melkow had THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS AND MAYBE MILLIONS of orcs. He also had many balrogs who were maiar. And <edited for spoilers>. Not to mention the Noldor were the elves of Beleriand in the majority and after the oath of feanor the valar forsook the noldor. Only when <edited for spoilers>


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 11, 2002)

Well you shouldn't forget that at the beginning Melkor and Manwe were the mightest among all Valar.Melkor loses his power with the years,because of his evil heart and soul,but he is still the most powerful creature in ME.At the same time Valar are just watching what's happennig,because of Feanor's oath and Mandos's curse.
So Valar do nothing till Earendil's coming,then the do...........but you'd better read the whole book!


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## Anamatar IV (Oct 11, 2002)

uh oh. I think I put a big spoiler in my post so im just gonna edit that baby out of there. Great book. Great ending. And I thought Melkor WAS the most powerful Valar. But when he rivaled Iluvatar in the themes the right hand valar position was given to manwe.


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *uh oh. I think I put a big spoiler in my post so im just gonna edit that baby out of there. Great book. Great ending. And I thought Melkor WAS the most powerful Valar. But when he rivaled Iluvatar in the themes the right hand valar position was given to manwe. *


Manwe was chosen for Valar's king because he was closest to Eru's thoughts.


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## Anárion (Oct 11, 2002)

Oh......okay.......that really doesnt clear anything up at all but I guess Ill understand when I finish the book, thx for not ruining it for me. Although its not like that matters, cuz Im so confused w/ names right now its not even funny. LOL
Ok, maybe it is funny....just a bit


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## Ravenna (Oct 12, 2002)

Part of the answer could simply be that Morgoth was evil and therefore had absolutely no scruples about what he did.
His opponents, on the other hand were deeply aware of the harm that they could cause, and would not stoop to underhand tactics, or torture, or anything which would deliberately despoil the earth. This no doubt meant that their position would be weakened.
In summation, the good guys play by the rules, but Morgoth cheats, and cheats, although losing in the long run, frequently enjoy a good long winning streak before they are caught out.


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## Gothmog (Oct 12, 2002)

Anárion, Just one point about your question that the others seem to have missed. You say


> they cant do that, the gods that CREATED him are too weak to take him out


Melkor was not created by the Valar in ME. All of the Valar and Maiar including Melkor were created by Iluvatar and he did not have anything to do with the battles between the Valar and Melkor.


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## Elbereth (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: 1,000,000 vs. 1*



> _Originally posted by Anárion _
> *Ok, heres a question for those that have finished the Sil.
> How come a ton of gods and lots of sindar elves and valar elves and all them couldnt take out 1 maia???
> I mean, its like, youd think a god, ANY god for that matter, could take out 1 maia....but nooooooo....they cant do that, the gods that CREATED him are too weak to take him out.....weird. *



Ok let's get this clear. Sauron was not created by the Gods. He was a Maiar and therefore created by only Illuvatar. Therefore, the Valar could not take him out. Also if you remember, when he came out of hiding, Sauron appeared as if he had repented his wrongs and befriended the Lords of Numenor during the second age. When his true colors began to show, the Valar did take action against him and the evil lords of Numenor who he corrupted and the Island of Numenor was covered by the sea. 

During the Third age, the Valar decided to take action...but knew their presence on Middle Earth would not be accepted...so they sent Maiar in their places. However, because the Istari were clothed in flesh, they were subject to the pains and fatigue of mortality. And therefore, they were individually weaker in comparison to Sauron. 

It was not until all the right pieces came together that Sauron could be defeated properly. And in my mind...this was how Illuvatar and the Valar had planned it.


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## Maedhros (Oct 20, 2002)

> Why didn't the valar take care of Sauron?


This is the closest thing that I have found in the works of JRRT.
From Myths Transformed:


> It is very reasonable to suppose that Manwë knew that before long (as he saw 'time') the Dominion of Men must begin, and the making of history would then be committed to them: for their struggle with Evil special arrangements had been made!* Manwë knew of Sauron, of course. He had commanded Sauron to come before him for judgement, but had left room for repentance and ultimate rehabilitation. Sauron had refused and had fled into hiding. Sauron, however, was a problem that Men had to deal with finally*: the first of the many concentrations of Evil into definite power-points that they would have to combat, as it was also the last of those in 'mythological' personalized (but non-human) form.


That's it. That is why Manwë left Sauron, to give him the opportunity to repent himself. Now regarding the Istari:


> Emissaries they were from Lords of the West, the Valar, who still took counsel for the governance of Middle-earth, and when the shadow of Sauron began first to stir again took this means of resisting him. For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years. And this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they had attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their own might and glory fully revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, *but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt*.


Men had to deal with Sauron, and the Valar send the Istari as guides to help them, but Sauron was a problem that the Men had to deal with.


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Maedhros _
> *This is the closest thing that I have found in the works of JRRT.
> From Myths Transformed:
> 
> ...


Exactly!!!That was a problem Men had to deal.Elves were leaving ME and it was a place where Men had to live.That's why they had to learn to survive and Sauron was,let's say it simplier,just a part of their educational program.


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