# Was Sam just a servant or true friend?



## Merry (Jul 26, 2002)

Ok, I have heard this mentioned in another thread which I found debatable, I always thought that Sam was a true, loyal friend of Frodos but others ('who'? is not relevant) have questioned this saying that Frodo treat him and viewed him as a servant. I know that Sam always wanted to serve "his master" but I still think that this was Sam being humble and not realising how much he meant to Frodo.

What do you think?


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## Gamil Zirak (Jul 26, 2002)

Sam was a very loyal servant. He and Frodo weren't even good friends. In the FoTR right before Bag End is given to the SB's and Frodo leaves, Frodo has one last meal with his best friends. They are Merry, Pippin, Fatty, and one other hobbit (I can't remember the name, but it wasn't Sam).


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## Lantarion (Jul 26, 2002)

> In the evening Frodo gave his farewell feast: it was quite small, just a dinner for himself and his *four helpers*; but he was troubled and felt in no mood for it.





> ...Merry took charge of [packing the luggage], and drove off with *Fatty (that is Fredegar Bolger)*...


So you were right about Merry, Pippin and Fatty; but I think you might be mistaken about Sam not being the fourth helper. After all, his _closest friends_ were all there. I remember that two friends of Bilbo's and Frodo's were mentioned, besides M and P. It was Fatty and the other one, but the other one did not strike me as a very close friend (judging by the fact I can't even remember his name!). No but seriously, the 'other guy' is only mentioned once or twice, so I did not get the impression of a dear friend; perhaps a 'buddy', but not a dear friend..
And how can you say that Sam and Frodo weren't even good friends?! Frodo says they are repeatedly (I remember him saying it twice in Mordor, no quotes I'm afraid), and it is more than obvious that they were the best of friends.


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## Gamil Zirak (Jul 26, 2002)

They did become friends in the end from Frodo's perspective, but not Sam's. Sam always referred to Frodo as Master.


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## aragil (Jul 26, 2002)

Are you trying to tell me that Sam kisses Frodo, not out of friendship or love, but because he considers that the proper 'servant thing' to do to a Master?


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## Gamil Zirak (Jul 26, 2002)

This isn't the same servant/master relationship we have now. This is the servant/master relationship Tolkien gives us. Sam cares for his master very deeply, but it's not friendship. If Merry and Pippin (Frodo's good friends) went to Mt. Doom with Frodo, they wouldn't have cared for Frodo like Sam did. His compassion stems from his love for his Master.


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## Beorn (Jul 26, 2002)

I think that in the beginning, the very beginning, Sam wasn't a friend, just a servant, because he was snooping for Merry & Pippin, correct? However, they became friends later on...

But, there are these quotes:




> No one had a more attentive audience than old Ham Gamgee, commonly known as the Gaffer. He held forth at The Ivy Bush, a small inn on the Bywater road; and he spoke with some authority, for he had tended the garden at Bag End for forty years, and had helped old Holman in the same job before that. Now that he was himself growing old and stiff in the joints, the job was mainly carried on by his youngest son, Sam Gamgee. Both father and son were on very friendly terms with Bilbo and Frodo. They lived on the Hill itself, in Number 3 Bagshot Row just below Bag End.


 FotR 6th paragraph





> He lived alone, as Bilbo had done; but he had a good many friends, especially among the younger hobbits (mostly descendants of the Old Took) who had as children been fond of Bilbo and often in and out of Bag End. Folco Boffin and Fredegar Bolger were two of these; but his closest friends were Peregrin Took (usually called Pippin), and Merry Brandybuck (his real name was Meriadoc, but that was seldom remembered). Frodo went tramping all over the Shire with them; but more often he wandered by himself, and to the amazement of sensible folk he was sometimes seen far from home walking in the hills and woods under the starlight. Merry and Pippin suspected that he visited the Elves at times, as Bilbo had done.


 FotR Ch. 2. 5th paragraph




> 'But I don't think you need go alone. Not if you know of anyone you can trust, and who would be willing to go by your side - and that you would be willing to take into unknown perils. But if you look for a companion, be careful in choosing! And be careful of what you say, even to your closest friends! The enemy has many spies and many ways of hearing.'
> Suddenly he stopped as if listening. Frodo became aware that all was very quiet, inside and outside. Gandalf crept to one side of the window. Then with a dart he sprang to the sill, and thrust a long arm out and downwards. There was a squawk, and up came Sam Gamgee's curly head hauled by one ear.
> 'Well, well, bless my beard!' said Gandalf. 'Sam Gamgee is it? Now what may you be doing?'
> 'Lor bless you, Mr. Gandalf, sir!' said Sam. 'Nothing! Leastways I was just trimming the grass-border under the window, if you follow me.' He picked up his shears and exhibited them as evidence.
> ...


 FotR Ch. 2, Last few paragraphs




> Autumn was well under way before Frodo began to worry about Gandalf again. September was passing and there was still no news of him. The Birthday, and the removal, drew nearer, and still he did not come, or send word. Bag End began to be busy. Some of Frodo's friends came to stay and help him with the packing: there was Fredegar Bolger and Folco Boffin, and of course his special friends Pippin Took and Merry Brandybuck. Between them they turned the whole place upside-down.


 FotR Ch. 3, first couple pages
So, the first quote implies a sort of friendship, the second only mentions Fatty, *Folco*, Merry, and Pippin, the third seems a lot like they _aren't_ friends, and the fourth only mentions Fatty, Folco, Merry, and Pippin....

And Ponti....whoops Lantarion, Folco is mentioned _three_ times, not two


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## aragil (Jul 26, 2002)

Contextual note- the first two chapters of FotR were written ~5 years before the breaking of the Fellowship, and much earlier than Frodo and Sam's trip through Mordor. When the drafts were first written, Sam didn't even exist, so that could go some way towards explaining why Sam was left out of the 'friend list'.
Still, I believe Sam was present at the party in quote #4 above, and so possibly qualifies as a friend even in the early stages.


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## Beorn (Jul 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *Contextual note- the first two chapters of FotR were written ~5 years before the breaking of the Fellowship, and much earlier than Frodo and Sam's trip through Mordor. When the drafts were first written, Sam didn't even exist, so that could go some way towards explaining why Sam was left out of the 'friend list'.
> Still, I believe Sam was present at the party in quote #4 above, and so possibly qualifies as a friend even in the early stages. *



Ouch.

However, in the third quote, if Sam was being inserted, and that he was friends, I don't think that Tolkien would've put in "'Me, sir!' cried Sam, springing up like a dog invited for a walk. 'Me go and see Elves and all! Hooray!' he shouted, and then burst into tears." (3) if Sam was just a friend....a dog?


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 27, 2002)

I think you're right Beorn.All things which Sam and Frodo do together,all adventures they have,have made them real friends.I think that with time being with Frodo,Sam has realized that Frodo is great person and he should do everything for him.


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## Bilbo Baggins57 (Jul 28, 2002)

I agree. They may have started out as servant & master, but their trip to Mordor definately brought them closer 2gether. Frodo was going to go to Mordor by himself but Sam insisted on going w/ him even after Frodo tried to convince him not to go. So Sam must have considered him a friend cuz most servants wouldn't do that for their master unless they had some kind of affection for him.


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## Gamil Zirak (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *Still, I believe Sam was present at the party in quote #4 above, and so possibly qualifies as a friend even in the early stages. *


If Sam was there, then he was either working in the garden or serving the five other hobbits.


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## ltas (Jul 29, 2002)

I have always seen Sam and Frodo as very close friends.


Nevertheless, I can't quite agree with Bilbo Baggins57 who said that:



> So Sam must have considered him a friend cuz most servants wouldn't do that for their master unless they had some kind of affection for him.



The affection Sam had for Frodo could as well be an affection of a very loyal servant for his master. This kind of relationship is very common in historical novels (Ivanhoe for example), where the servant may voluntarily sacrifice himself to save his master. 


I guess there are many ways to interpret the nature of their relationship...


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## Lhunithiliel (Jul 29, 2002)

I only wish to say that without Sam - servant OR a friend - poor Frodo would be HELPLESS! 
I don't like it that Frodo treats Sam like a servant, mostly... although it can be felt that he cares about Sam a lot and often, especially at the end of their great "adventure" he feels him more like his FRIEND!
But did Frodo ever admitted Sam's loyalty and true friendship?
I doubt it! 
And this makes me mad!
I think Sam is the true hero!
Right, Maneriniel?


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## Ariana Undomiel (Jul 30, 2002)

In the beginning, I believe that Sam was a hired hand at Bag End, but as the book progresses, Sam and Frodo grow closer. Sam is so humble though that he never stops thinking that Frodo is above him. He adores Frodo! Towards the end of the Return of the King, the love that Sam shows Frodo in the way that he cares for him, is the love of a true friend and not just the love of a servant for his master. This is truly shown when Frodo leaves Sam at the Grey Havens and Frodo leaves all his wealth and possesions to Sam. I think in the end, Frodo realized that Sam was the greatest friend he had ever had.

Just my point of view.

~Ariana


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## Lantarion (Jul 30, 2002)

IMHO it is very difficult to make out the degree of relationship between, well, any characters in the LotR. And I think I might know why: Tolkien's 'love stories' and friendships are displayed quite rigidly (Cf. Aragorn + Arwen) and are not much elaborated. The Arwen/Aragorn thing would appear to be something set up by Elrond, and that they only 'mingle' because it would look suitable. A partial culprit to this rigidness is, IMO, the kind of language Tolkien makes his characters use. In many situations it is correct, and only shows that the speaker has either great respect for the person to whom he is speaking or wishes to bring out a special aspect of themselves (Cf. Aragorn to Éomer); but in intimate relationships, love or friendship, I think it gives a misguided atmosphere. The only time Aragorn really 'lets his hair down' while speaking is when he and the Hobbits come across the stone trolls. He even cracks a joke! But when speaking with or about Arwen he seems too poetic and shakespearian for his own good. 
So it is a little difficult, at least for me, to say whether Frod and Sam were just master and servant, or true friends.


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## Ravenna (Jul 30, 2002)

You got there first Ariana! Just as I was deciding how to put it too. Total agreement here.

By the way, Lantarion, I don't see Elrond setting up Aragorn and Arwen, surely he was, at least initially against the whole thing, knowing that if she married a mortal, Arwen would have to give up her elvenhood, I mean, look at the strict conditions he imposed before he would allow it.


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## Lantarion (Jul 31, 2002)

Yes, I know, I only implied that the tone and mood of their relationship was as though it was not a natural course of action (even though it was).


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## Aslan (Jul 31, 2002)

I find it hard to distinguish the difference between master-servant or friends. Certainly Frodo is the master, but it is because Sam has chosen to be the servant. Many friendships are conducted in this manner, though I don't know why. So, I would say they are one and the same. Anyway, that is my never-so-humble opinion .


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## Theoden (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Aslan _
> *I find it hard to distinguish the difference between master-servant or friends. Certainly Frodo is the master, but it is because Sam has chosen to be the servant. Many friendships are conducted in this manner...*



I would have to agree with Aslan. The fact that Sam was Frodos servant might explain why Sam left the Shire with him. But the fact that Sam went all the way to Mordor with Frodo and carried him up the mountain where he was more afraid than he had ever been shows that there was a deep *deep, deep* friendship that was inplace.

-me


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## Melara (Aug 2, 2002)

After Sam had finished with Shelob and went to Frodo he says something that makes me think that he really is or wants to be Frodos friend. As he tries to wake Frodo up he first calls him "master Frodo" but then, as Frodo doesnt wake, he cries "dear friend" or something (I have only read the book in finnish).


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## Lantarion (Aug 2, 2002)

Would that be "rakas ystävä"? 
Welcome to the Forum, Melara! Glad to see another Finn at the forum.


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## Melara (Aug 4, 2002)

Hi Lantarion and thanks!!!


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## Eol (Aug 5, 2002)

*Sam and Frodo*

I'm surprised at this thread. Frodo and Sam are obviously friends, with Sam having an almost hero-worship deal going with Bilbo and Frodo, and Frodo looking on Sam as a well-meaning and trusted friend. The fact that Sam is Frodo's servant by profession doesn't need to alter this. The Gamgee's are a poor family, thus they work as servants. Merry and Pippin (and Frodo and Bilbo) are all from very wealthy families (Bilbo mainly due to his adventures, though he was well to do before that time).

Batman was on TV earlier and they really play up the relationship between Alfred and Bruce Wayne. Are they friends? Or does their social situation also prevent this?

Two other things to mention. One, the quote 'Me, sir!' cried Sam, springing up like a dog invited for a walk. 'Me go and see Elves and all! Hooray!' he shouted, and then burst into tears." doesn't imply anything except to show the kind of excitement Sam showed. And second, it is interesting that in the long excerpt mentioned earlier the important piece was ignored. Let me copy it again here...

>> 'So you heard that Mr. Frodo is going away?'

'I did, sir. And that's why I choked: which you heard seemingly. I tried not to, sir, but it burst out of me: I was so upset.' 

'It can't be helped, Sam,' said Frodo sadly. He had suddenly realized that flying from the Shire would mean more painful partings than merely saying farewell to the familiar comforts of Bag End. 'I shall have to go. But' - and here he looked hard at Sam - 'if you really care about me, you will keep that dead secret. See? If you don't, if you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, then I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad and fill the garden full of grass-snakes.' <<

First, note that Sam is discovered because he is unable to cover the "choke" from his shock at Frodo having to leave. This is a blow to Sam to know that Frodo will be leaving him. Second, Frodo suddenly realizes he is leaving loved ones behind, Sam included. And finally, he says that if Sam cares for him, to keep everything secret. And he does. After this point he stops supplying information to Merry and Pippin. I doubt the spotted toad threat was the reason.

So just because they have a particular business relationship doesn't mean you can't be friends (hey, I am good friends with my boss too).

Eol


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## Ravenna (Aug 5, 2002)

Just to add a new twist to the argument; compare the way the other hobbits treat Sam. On the journey to Buckland, Pippin wakes up and the first thing he says is along the lines of 'Sam is the water hot?' Sam immediately jumps up to do his bidding, before remembering where they are. You never see Frodo actually order Sam to do anything, although he asks. To me this indicates that Frodo see Sam as more of a friend, unlike Pippin.


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## Lantarion (Aug 5, 2002)

Good point, I agree.


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## Aragorn12345 (Aug 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Merry _
> *Ok, I have heard this mentioned in another thread which I found debatable, I always thought that Sam was a true, loyal friend of Frodos but others ('who'? is not relevant) have questioned this saying that Frodo treat him and viewed him as a servant. I know that Sam always wanted to serve "his master" but I still think that this was Sam being humble and not realising how much he meant to Frodo.
> 
> What do you think? *


I think Frodo thought of Sam as A servant but all Sam wanted was Frienship!    ::


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## kohaku (Aug 9, 2002)

I think Frodo thought of Sam as a friend as well as servant. This is most clearly seen when Frodo addresses Sam as "my dearest hobbit, friend of friends" in TTT. of course, not everything fits neatly into categories, and the relationship between Frodo and Sam has elements of both a master/servant relationship and friendship. whatever you want to call it, they both cared a lot about each other.


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## Eledhwen (Jun 12, 2007)

Sam was Frodo's gardener, and also brought his breakfast and probably did other odd jobs here and there. This matches Tolkien's own assertion that the relationship between the two was, initially, similar to that of a British Officer and his batman (my Dad's batman was also our babysitter!) 

At the time of WW1, the officer would be expensively educated and at least 'middle class'. The batman would be 'working class' and may have had only primary education. The batman would also have been taught, throughout his life, that people like the officer were his 'betters' and he would probably have accepted this. With Frodo and Sam, the relationship was idealised (eg: in reality, not all officers were respectful or polite to their batmen)

Sam would have had great difficulty NOT being the one who prepared the meals and made sure the bath water was the right temperature - he would have been out of his comfort zone if his 'betters' had treated him as equal. This was unconsciously known by all concerned. Such a state of affairs would mask any fondness, even from those in whom it had grown. Just as Frodo realised, after Bilbo had gone, how much he cared for him; he also realised that when his own departure from The Shire was imminent, that he would miss others, including Sam.

However, as Sam and Frodo became separated from the fellowship and became more and more reliant on each other, the bond of friendship grew. When they returned to The Shire, it seemed natural for Frodo to invite Sam and Rosie to share his home and to make Sam his heir; who could be more fitting?

To the very end, Sam remained a servant (and I would argue that in many relationships, one person tends to take that role on for themselves); but he was also a true and dear friend to Frodo, and that friendship was reciprocated.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 12, 2007)

Merry said:


> Ok, I have heard this mentioned in another thread which I found debatable, I always thought that Sam was a true, loyal friend of Frodos but others ('who'? is not relevant) have questioned this saying that Frodo treat him and viewed him as a servant. I know that Sam always wanted to serve "his master" but I still think that this was Sam being humble and not realising how much he meant to Frodo.
> 
> What do you think?



Well, you're right of course. And let's dispense with all the "gay" theories, which are a product of "modern times." 

In the British military, there was a long-standing tradition of the "batman," which has nothing to do with the comic strip character. Here is the Oxford dictionary definition:

batman | noun ( pl. -men) dated (in the British armed forces) an officer's personal servant. ORIGIN mid 18th cent.(originally denoting an orderly in charge of the bat horse [packhorse] that carried the officer's baggage): from Old French bat (from medieval Latin bastum ‘packsaddle’ ) + man .

A more detailed article about the British batman can be found here.

There was absolute loyalty and a kind of brotherly love between the officer and his aide. Each depended on the other to the death. And Eledhwen's post above is spot on. This was the relationship between Frodo and Sam: closest of friends, and Sam was Frodo's absolutely loyal and essential aide.

Barley


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## Annaheru (Jun 12, 2007)

I totally agree with the above two posts. I'd just like to point out that this relationship was at one time widespread, and has only recently died out:

The British batman is an obvious extension of the medieval squire. It is a relationship in which service is rendered for service and the servant is indeed an intimate of his master.The Gamgee family's relationship with the Baggins family confirms this-- it was Bilbo who undertook Sam's education, for example.
Another literary example of the batman/officer relationship involving a deep friendship can be found in Toby and Trim of _Tristram Shandy_.

These types of relationships, with their subtle tones of family loyalty, domestic familiarity, class distinction, and personal decorum, are often misunderstood by the modern reader who is only familiar with a pay-for-everything-you-get boss-employee system.


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## Starflower (Aug 25, 2007)

Well Sam is most definitely a servant - that is his family have been servants to the Baggins' for a long time. Gaffer Gamgee's 'Cousin Holman' was a gardener in Hobbiton, and Gaffer himself had been working for the Baggins' since boyhood. 

Sam and Frodo definitely define their relationship as servant-master, only towards the end, on the seemingly hopeless trek to Mt Doom does the relationship undergo a subtle change. They become dependent on one another, as people, the social class becomes unimportant when you are facing certain death

Though, after they have been rescued and they go back to the Shire, things revert to how they were before - to a degree. Sam and Rosie move in to Bag End - ostensibly because they need the space with growing family and all, but it seems to be really because Frodo really likes to have Sam around. 

So - a servant, yes but also a true friend


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## Eledhwen (Aug 26, 2007)

Although there are traces of the master/servant relationship after their return; I don't think things ever went back to the way they were. Sam had grown in character and was looked up to by the community. The invitation to live at Bag End came as naturally to Frodo as if he were inviting a much loved brother and his wife; and Rosie looked after them both. Sam, of course, became mayor many times, and was invited to a meeting at the gates of The Shire by King Elessar himself (who was banned from entering by his own decree). Sam always had a servant heart, of course, which is what made him such a good mayor; but any servile relationship to Frodo was erased by their shared experience.


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## Iluvatar (Nov 30, 2007)

The question is what does the word 'friend' signify? If it merely means do they like each other and feel comfortable around each other, then yes, they are friends.

But if it means, do they hang out with other during their spare time, then it is far less likely that they were friends. The scene in the atrocious movies where Samwise and Frodo are staggering home from the pub would simply never have happened. Samwise himself would have felt too uncomfortable comporting himself in such a manner in the company of his master.

The relationship between the two needs to be seen in the terms of 18th century pre-industrial rural England. In that context, while they like and respect each other, they do so from their own far-removed social circles.

Now, by the end of the book, the relationship has become a friendship, mostly through the impetus of Frodo, who does not allow Samwise to fall back into the role of servant after the completion of the perils they endured together. It was only that great trauma that allowed their own class differences to pale to (almost) insignificance, and thus only then that they could be friends according the the second definition above.


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## Leveller (Dec 3, 2007)

I totally agree Iluvatar. Not until the very end they start becoming equals. Sam is always looking after Frodo, cooking, carrying the most, going without food and water etc. Not that Frodo is treating him badly, but there is a servant/master relationship. 
And dont get me started on how pippin treats him


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## Starflower (Mar 13, 2009)

We, having grown up in an egalitarian society, see Frodo & co's treatment of Sam as the servant of the group as demeaning. For Tolkien it would have been normal, England in the 40's and 50's was still very class-conscious society.
But nowhere in the story does anyone actually _mistreat_ Sam, nor does he in any way resent his role. 
Merry and Pippin are actual nobility, being sons of the leaders of their respective 'nations', and Frodo was rich and from a 'good family' - there would have been real friendship between these three. But with Sam, him and his entire family had been servants, it was his role in life. 
I don't think Sam was ever really comfortable with Frodo treating him as an equal after the War, he keeps calling him 'Mr Frodo' and keeps looking after him all the time.


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