# What if all Nargothrond had aided Beren?



## Snaga (Sep 25, 2005)

I was just wondering what would have happened if Finrod had been able to persuade his people to aid Beren in the quest of the Silmaril?

I'm thinking there would have been a huge battle at Tol Sirion, which may have still resulted in Finrod's death and perhaps Beren's capture. Would it have then been entirely futile? What would the consequences have been?


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## Arvedui (Sep 26, 2005)

I guess that there would have been a great battle somewhere. A great battle where we probably would have encountered Glaurung for the first time, perhaps?
Even if Finrod had been slain and Beren taken captive, much of the same story concerning Beren and Lúthien could have been as it is from the point where Beren was a prisoner at Sauron's Isle.

It would also imply quite a different development in the story of Túrin Turambar as well. He could perhaps still have gone to Nargothrond, but the motives would have been a little different. And there would have been no Finduilas, would there.

As you see, I take it for granted that the elves of Nargothrond would ahve been utterly beaten in the event of such a battle.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 26, 2005)

Being a small company, Finrod & co. were naturally taken captive by Sauron. I doubt that could happen if an army from Nargothrond accompanied them.

It would of course be much easier to speculate if we knew the number of the populations of Nargothrond and Tol-in-Gaurhoth. It is my impression that Sauron's Isle was not hugely inhabited, but served more as a watch tower over Beleriand, albeit it was held by Morgoth's greatest servant and ferocious beasts. Nargothrond, however, would still have had a large population of Elves, among them many Calaquendi. This, coupled with the fact that Luthien and Huan would eventually have arrived after Beren, makes me think that eventually Sauron's Isle would have fallen. Furthermore, I think that even without Huan and Luthien, the army of Nargothrond led by Finrod and Beren would have been victorious - after an exhausting battle, but nonetheless victorious.

All in all, therefore, I am quite optimistic. But perhaps all the ruckus of the battle would have attracted agents and armies of Morgoth to Tol Sirion much sooner, and Beren and Luthien's (and Huan's) path to Angband would have been watched and their plan to wrest the Silmaril from Morgoth foiled.



Arvedui said:


> A great battle where we probably would have encountered Glaurung for the first time, perhaps?



Glaurung first appeared in the year 265 of the First Age, Finrod was slain two hundred years later.


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## Snaga (Sep 26, 2005)

It does seem possible that a first battle at Tol Sirion might have been victorious, but Morgoth would have sent further forces against Finrod. I wonder if any others of the Eldar would have come to their aid? This was before the Union of Maidros: there were allies in Hithlum and further east. Nonetheless, the only way that this could aid Beren would be if he had used the 'fog of war' to divert attention from the real quest: the Frodo tactic. Finrod, perhaps, was wise enough to devise this tactic, but was Beren's temperament such that he would be prepared to play this part?

I wonder, too, if Thingol would have been abashed at the war, and the many deaths that his harsh words had unleashed?


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 26, 2005)

Snaga said:


> This was before the Union of Maidros



But was it? The Union of Maedhros was formed some time after the Battle of Sudden Flame (which ended in 456), and lasted until the Nirnaeth (471). Finrod died in 465. So it seems that hefty reinforcements could have been sent after all.


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## Snaga (Sep 26, 2005)

The Sil seems to imply that the Union of Maidros was a reaction to the success of Beren's quest.


OF THE FIFTH BATTLE said:


> In those days Maedhros son of Feanor lifted up his heart.... for the deeds of Beren and Luthien were sung in many songs.... and he began those counsels for the raising of the fortunes of the Eldar that are called the Union of Maedhros


Reinforcements may have been available, but would they have come? Knowing their quest, perhaps Maidros would have refused to support them, because of the Oath. Fingon is more likely to have come, but what could he have done at short notice?


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