# Faramir and Immediate King Recognition... What do you think?



## HLGStrider (Jun 6, 2002)

> Suddenly Faramir stirred, and he openned his eyes, and he looked on Aragorn who bent over him; and alight of knowledge and love was kindled in his eyes, andhe spoke softly 'My Lord, you called me. I come. What does the king command?'



This is a great scene and a great chapter, but I wanted to know your opinion.

Why does Faramir recognize Aragorn immediately?

A few points: No one else did around that area.
counter to the point: Faramir had just been healed by Aragorn (hands of a king)
counter to the counter: Merry was also healed and had no such recognition.
Counter to the counter to the counter: Merry was not exactly Aragorn's subject.
Counter to the counter etc: Really weak excuse.

Frodo had told Faramir about Aragorn. Faramir was at the time skeptical, but do you think this had anything to do with the recognition?

Was it the athelas? Was Faramir high? I mean that totally seriously... does the herb help identify kings?

Was Faramir just exceedingly clear sighted? He was a wonderful person. I love the guy almost as much as Strider, but this is just highly clear sighted...

Had Aragorn chosen to reveal himself somehow to the young Steward? Could Aragorn throw off his disguise so that only one person could see the truth at will?

Just want some speculationg. Great great great chapter.

I also like how Aragorn skedaddled before Eowyn could catch sight of him... leaving Eomer to wake her up in a sweet sibling reunion... Wonderful of him.


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## Legolam (Jun 7, 2002)

Good question. 

I think personally that Faramir was just very clear minded as a person, and waking up from his wounds allowed him to see the truth, if you see what I mean. Also, he knew that the king was coming back because Frodo had told him, so he would have already been thinking about Aragorn's return and the waking up allowed him to think clearly.

Does that make any sense at all?


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## Elfarmari (Jun 7, 2002)

I think Faramir was very clear-sighted, but also Aragorn chose to reveal himself. It says in the appendices (I think) that when he was wandering in the wild or serving other kings he seemed worthy of honor, as a king in exile when he did not hide his true form. Faramir had been told about Aragorn, but had not see him before, so I don't know if that would have helped any.


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## Tyaronumen (Jun 7, 2002)

The Dunedain of the elder days were far-sighted beyond all the reckonings of those who we now count as wise in these later years...


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## HLGStrider (Jun 7, 2002)

Follow up question. I think, I'm not sure, that Faramir was about three when Aragorn was in Gondor (he was there perhaps five years and Faramir was born in that period)... Any chance of baby Faramir knowing him from then?


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## HLGStrider (Jun 7, 2002)

I know he didn't know him as a king.. but you know, little kids are incredibly clear sighted.


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## Elu Thingol (Jun 10, 2002)

I think the reason the others didn't recognize Aragorn as king right away was because they did not want it to be and because of this they could not see the truth


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## Tyaronumen (Jun 10, 2002)

I agree with you Mithrandir! I'd actually take it a step further and say that a lot of the lack of perceptiveness that people experience in general is because of their own desires for a world operating under particular constraints...


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## HLGStrider (Jun 13, 2002)

I like it too. I'm not sure it applies to the whole population... 

I'd forgotten that this was after Aragorn had displayed his banner... they should've known something was up.


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## Theoden (Jun 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Tyaronumen _
> *The Dunedain of the elder days were far-sighted beyond all the reckonings of those who we now count as wise in these later years... *



I think Tyaronumen makes a good point. I would have add only that Faramir was also influenced greatly by Gandalf, and he, we all know, had the ability to look beyond the external appearance of a character and see something deeper... perhaps even thier true self. Example: Bilbo, Merry and Pippen, Gollum, Grima, Saruman...

So it is possible that Faramir learned this gift from Gandalf, and was acting out of that when he opened his eyes and said: 'My Lord, you called me. I come. What does the king command?'

-me


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## Anarchist (Jun 16, 2002)

Perhaps it was the method Aragorn used to save their lives. To Merry he revealed himself as good old Strider, a merry friend and partner to their difficult journeys, whiles to Faramir he revealed himself as a powerful king, the one who returned to save Minats Tirith from destruction. Revealing himself in these ways to each character, perhaps gave them hope and power to wake up from their comma.


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## Kurboni (Jun 18, 2002)

How could anyone not recognise that devilishly handsome face?


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## HLGStrider (Jun 18, 2002)

Good point, Kurboni... Though I don't think Faramir is that sort of guy...


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## Shadowfax (Jun 19, 2002)

Probably the reason Merry did not recognize him as king was because of his plain old hobbit-sense. i mean, the most formal they ever got is to put a mister in front of someone's name. Also merry was at that time still a subject of Rohan, and I don't think it would have been kosher to suddenly recognize another king.

Faramir I think was putting two and two together. This was after he had met Frodo and Sam and had learned about the ring. I don't know about you guys, but if a midget out of fairy tales suddenly informed me that an equally mythical piece of jewelry was going to be destroyed to save the world, I'd start beliving in those old prophecies. And maybe the hobbits described Aragorn to him.


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## Lantarion (Jun 19, 2002)

Maybe Aragorn just had that kind of air about him, as well as healing Faramir and Merry. He'd have to have a good shave first though, we can't have riffraff ruling a kingdom now can we? 
That is an incredibly hilarious signature, HLG!  ROTFL!!


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## HLGStrider (Jun 20, 2002)

Thanks... I like it too, Pontifex...

I don't know how Aragorn would be described to Faramir. There are two sides to this man, after all... Strider and Elessar. Strider, which Frodo knew best, was hardly the kingly sort... highly loveable and wonderfully roguish and... oh makes me dizzy... where was I?
The king in him started to show itself in Rohan, I believe. Perhaps it was nearing his prospective kingdom and being in charge that brought it out.


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## Niniel (Jun 21, 2002)

Maybe this is a possibility, it just came to me and I found it kind of intriguing: Aragorn call Faramir by sort of descending into Faramir's mind. Who knows what he told Faramir that the others could not hear? Maybe he told him everything, or not so much told him, but maybe it was some sort of mind-melt (ever seen Star Trek?), so that Faramir knew that Aragorn was going to claim the kingship. Just a thought, but it's possible.


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## Shadowfax (Jun 21, 2002)

Hmmmm... Hadn't thought of it that way before... I like that explanation the best.


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## HLGStrider (Jun 21, 2002)

Yes, I can see that. That's a definate possibility.


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## indexerkevin (Jul 21, 2002)

*Nineil is right!*

Niniel is right on. The text is subtle but pretty clear about this point IMHO: The victims are all on the verge of the spirit world more or less. Aragorn, using his powers of kingly healing, literally walks with them in the dark valleys of their dreams as they lay dying. For each he uses a different approach, Merry being the easiest so I won't touch on him. To Faramir, he basically calls to him in teh spirit world as his king. He's basically going, "Ok walk this way now back to the light. Hold your King's hand. Awake now to the Return of your King." Faramir then of course recognizes him instantly. 

For Eowyn though he must use a diabolically loving bit of trickery which is one of my fav scenes in the books. She is falling fast into the spirit world as much for loss of all hope as from the wound which has been well-tended. As he discusses with Eomer before he goes into his trance with her, the very reason for her total loss of hope is him: Aragorn. So, as I see it, he must literally call her in the spirit world, not as her King but as her love coming to get her (as he rightly knows she will perceive it). He leaves just as she awakes and plants her hand in Eomer's, to transfer the hope onto him. In simple words, he goes to her in the spirit world and leads her to awake in the glorious hope of seeing him (Aragorn). But she only recovers fully when she finally banishes the last glimmer of romantic hope for Aragorn and accepts Faramir's love. They will always share the bond of having been brought back to life by the man they loved.


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## HLGStrider (Jul 21, 2002)

All the good men are in Middle Earth... sigh............


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## HLGStrider (Sep 29, 2003)

> but maybe it was some sort of mind-melt (ever seen Star Trek?)



PS it's a mind MELD, Niniel.


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## Beleg (Sep 30, 2003)

> A few points: No one else did around that area.
> counter to the point: Faramir had just been healed by Aragorn (hands of a king)
> counter to the counter: Merry was also healed and had no such recognition.
> Counter to the counter to the counter: Merry was not exactly Aragorn's subject.
> Counter to the counter etc: Really weak excuse.




1. Numenorean's possessed foresite from offlate,
The Quote given below is about Aragon but Faramir was a guy of Hifh Numenorean race too.


> ...suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him,...



*Appendix A*

2. Yes, Hands of the King are the hands of the healer. That was an old proverb and Faramir was a wise and learned person, deep in the lore of Gondor and must have heard this phrase. Once he got some recogniaztion of what was going on, he would have gathered in a instance Aragon's role and what that role made him: No big deal. Also remember the dream he had, about the sword being reforged and Imladris, for which Boromir travelled North, he was a wise man and it is plausible that he had gathered something with accompanied by his foresite inherited from his ancestors he used to recognise Aragon as the king.

3. Pippin had never heard this proverb before. And Pippin knew Aragon much more intimately, as Strider, so much so that he had failed to grasp the real significance of Aragon's role. Pippin didn't see Aragon as the Head of Rangers or even as the King [Till that point, although Some majesty was revealed at Angorath] but as Strider, who tricks and healing powers he knew from experience. 
But to Faramir and the people of Minas Tirith who weren't his chums and didn't knew him on a more intimate scale, he seemed like a King with all his hidden glory revealed and his Kingship approved once he proved himself to be a skillful healer. 
At that time Faramir wasn't Aragon's subject either. If I recall correctly, till that time Aragon hadn't yet displayed the will of taking over the Kingship explictly, but Faramir perhaps felt himself to be Aragon's subject due to the physological effect of Aragon's revealed lineage and its implications. 

4. Which one is a really weak excuse? About Merry being not his subject? No it is, as you see, Merry and people of Gondor saw Aragon from different prespective, Merry knew and loved the Strider side of Aragon, while to Gondorians, from the start the Aragon, King Ellesar Telcontar side was revealed, so they were only acquinted with this side. This is like the same what people of Gondor precieved of Hobbits. Due to their strangeness, their shining gares and the company they kept, they were precieved as fierce princes and I am sure Bilbo would have laughed heartily if he had heard these rumors for to him they were but nice, gentlehobbits although a bit Adventrous.


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## Rhiannon (Sep 30, 2003)

I think Niniel is exactly right. Faramir recognizes Aragorn's call as a command from his king, and it wakens him, combined with Faramir's own clear sight (and he is _very_ clear sighted, we know this) 

_However_, I must take issue with some of what indexerkevin said-


> For Eowyn though he must use a diabolically loving bit of trickery which is one of my fav scenes in the books. She is falling fast into the spirit world as much for loss of all hope as from the wound which has been well-tended. As he discusses with Eomer before he goes into his trance with her, the very reason for her total loss of hope is him: Aragorn. So, as I see it, he must literally call her in the spirit world, not as her King but as her love coming to get her (as he rightly knows she will perceive it). He leaves just as she awakes and plants her hand in Eomer's, to transfer the hope onto him. In simple words, he goes to her in the spirit world and leads her to awake in the glorious hope of seeing him (Aragorn). But she only recovers fully when she finally banishes the last glimmer of romantic hope for Aragorn and accepts Faramir's love. They will always share the bond of having been brought back to life by the man they loved.



I think it is _very important_ to recognize that Eowyn _does not wake_ until Eomer calls her. She does not answer Aragorn. By this time she has already given up her 'love-which-was-really-never-love-love' for Aragorn, and transferred that intensity of emotion in to a wish for death. Aragorn recognizes this, which is why he tells Eomer to call her. 

Eowyn was not 'on the rebound' when she accepted Faramir's love. Their love was not based on a mutual love of Aragorn. It's true that she 'only recovers fully when she finally banishes the last glimmer of romantic hope for Aragorn and accepts Faramir's love', but it is _also_ when she finally admits to herself that what she felt for Aragorn was respect, and admiration ("And as a great captain may seem to a young soldier, he appeared to you admirable, for so he is, a king among men..." paraphrase), and as a chance of escape from her 'cage', but not as 'true love'. 

*ahem* Sorry, sorry...Yes I _have_ to turn everything in to a discussion about Eowyn...


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## Rhiannon (Sep 30, 2003)

> All the good men are in Middle Earth... sigh............



HEAR, HEAR!


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