# How?????????



## Celborn (Jun 14, 2007)

How is it that biblo and the thirteen dwarves and gandalf all walked into the same clearing as the wolves and the goblins and also how is it that they were there on the same night and at the same time? Dont get me wrong I like the Lord of the Rings alot but how is that they were there ???


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## Eledhwen (Jun 14, 2007)

It's just bad luck, Celborn!

If you come out of a mountain from one of the Goblins' main exits, then find your way down the hillside by the route that seems best to you, then find a nice clearing in the trees; the odds are that it will be trysting place of some sort for the tribes that live nearby. 

The bad luck comes with turning up when the bad guys have agreed to meet there; a bit like a group of Rangers fans going into a pub in what they think is neutral territory and finding, halfway through their first pint, that the Celtic fans were due to meet some Irish pals there on that same night (I'm not saying Celtic fans are the bad guys; it's the enmity I'm trying to emphasise, together with the unfortunate coincidence).


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## Celborn (Jun 15, 2007)

thank you for that nice analogy but why would the goblins still want to attack the men after all they did just lose their leader


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## Eledhwen (Jun 15, 2007)

They never needed an excuse to attack; and being goblins (orcs) they wouldn't be mourning their leader, but looking for the opportunity to be the one to replace him if they had the capacity. No-where in Tolkiens works does one of these creatures show genuine love or loyalty; and fealty would never win out over self-interest.

Look at the Cirith Ungol orcs in Lord of the Rings, who killed each other down to the last miserable specimen, just to be the one who got Frodo's shirt, either for themselves or to gain favour with the big boss.

By the way, Celborn, if English is not your own language and I have used words you don't understand, just say.


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## Celborn (Jun 15, 2007)

now now now there is no need to be so rude Eledhwen, and it was a question sorry if it has made you mad??!!


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 15, 2007)

Celborn said:


> How is it that biblo and the thirteen dwarves and gandalf all walked into the same clearing as the wolves and the goblins and also how is it that they were there on the same night and at the same time? Dont get me wrong I like the Lord of the Rings alot but how is that they were there ???



Timing m'boy, timing! 

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Jun 18, 2007)

Celborn said:


> now now now there is no need to be so rude Eledhwen, and it was a question sorry if it has made you mad??!!


I'm not mad, I was just concerned that I might be using words a non-English speaker wouldn't understand (I don't know if 'Missin Viejo' is a place or just a joke that I don't get!). Also, I don't do 'rude' ... sarcasm, irony, cynicism, but never rudeness; not because I'm nice, but because it's an instant barrier to the recipient seeing the point of my argument.

Are you reading/re-reading The Hobbit at the moment? Perhaps you could start a discussion thread, by chapter, like the ones for Lord of the Rings?


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 18, 2007)

Eledhwen said:


> I'm not mad, I was just concerned that I might be using words a non-English speaker wouldn't understand (I don't know if 'Missin Viejo' is a place or just a joke that I don't get!).



It appears to be a bilingual term: "missing old man."


Barley


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## Eledhwen (Jun 19, 2007)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> It appears to be a bilingual term: "missing old man."
> 
> 
> Barley


Is 'Viejo' Spanish then? We English tend to learn mainly French and German at school (no idea why; we've been at war more recently with both these than with Spain. Maybe it's because it's a shorter ferry ride)

Incidentally, Celborn, have you read 'Unfinished Tales'? There's a story in there that's essential reading if you've ever wondered what on earth possessed Gandalf and the Dwarves to pick Bilbo in the first place.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 19, 2007)

Eledhwen said:


> Is 'Viejo' Spanish then?



Yes, _viejo_ is "old man." As for Europeans learning French and German, they're closer to home and represent "countries of commerce" for you more than for Spain, yes? While across the pond, we have Mexico (don't get me started), and so Spanish is our second "coin of the realm," especially if one lives in one of the southern border states, and very especially the closer you actually live to the southern border. I don't speak Spanish fluently, but I can speak a kind of broken "self-defense Spanish at need."

In Los Angeles for instance, almost _all_ of the blue collar work force is Hispanic of one stripe or other. In the 30s and 40s, it was the Japanese who evolved as our gardners; now it's the Hispanics. It was the Chinese who were our launderers, now it's Hispanics; it was African Americans who were domestic servants, now it's Hispanics. The other three groups have evolved upward to one degree or another, especially Asians.

Barley


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## Celborn (Jun 19, 2007)

well for myself I musat say i dont know what its translation into english is for Mission Viejo, but i can assure this that english is my first lang. and although Barliman Butterbur your point is totally offtopic what you said was true.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 20, 2007)

Celborn said:


> well for myself I musat say i dont know what its translation into english is for Mission Viejo, but i can assure this that english is my first lang. and although Barliman Butterbur your point is totally offtopic what you said was true.



Ah, "Mission Viejo"! That's different! That's a city in Orange County, California: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Viejo,_California

And "mission" _as a noun_ means not only _an important assignment,_ but also a place where _missionary work_ is done — such as all the missions in California that were run by the Catholic priests trying to convert the Indians.

And Celborn m'boy, you need to go back into your Control Panel and correct the spelling of "Mission Viejo" in your Location area. I think that's what caused all the confusion in the first place.

Barley


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## Celborn (Jun 20, 2007)

sorry for my misspelling, but im not the best at spelling


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 20, 2007)

Celborn said:


> sorry for my misspelling, but im not the best at spelling



That's okay, that's something that can always be improved. One of our greatest TTFers here, Firawyn, had the same thing going with her spelling. One day however, she simply decided she was going to do something about it, and by God she buckled down and made incredible improvements! Give her a PM, I'm sure she'd support you 100%! There's also a trick you can do if you want to go to the extra trouble: Write your post in your word processor and run it through the spellchecker. It makes a world of difference! 

Barley


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## Eledhwen (Jun 21, 2007)

Barliman Butterbur said:


> Now it's Hispanics; The other three groups have evolved upward to one degree or another, especially Asians.
> 
> Barley


We're getting similar waves of people as more countries enter the European Union. What I don't understand is why they trudge _across_ the rest of developed Europe to get to the (much more densely populated) UK. The latest wave is Polish (the people, not the substance/verb for making things shiny - Yeesh! The English language!!)

We know how Gandalf, the dwarves and the goblins came to be there. What I want to know is, where did the wolves come from?


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## Barliman Butterbur (Jun 21, 2007)

Eledhwen said:


> ...What I don't understand is why they trudge _across_ the rest of developed Europe to get to the...UK. ...(Yeesh! The English language!!)



I daresay it is _precisely_ the English language that attracts them.

Barley


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