# did the Middle Earth exist?



## Cinderella (Jul 26, 2002)

Sometimes I think that all those creatures from the Lord of the Rings could have lived in other age. Some people think that The Middle Age is the most similar to the Third Age. There were wizards,(Merlin) strange creatures, you know, like in the Prince Valiant.What do you think? Though I don't put this great story in a particular age or place. I think it's a timeless story, simply because there's nothing like that. 
When you're reading the story it's like you were there. Tolkien himself was an amazing wizard of the imagination.Maybe hobbits, trolls, did exist or maybe not. Anyway I would like that they were real.But they really live. The Middle Earth lives in our imagination.


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## Amichi (Jul 26, 2002)

In a universe of infinite possibility, anything is possible. 

So there may very well be a Middle Earth out there, somewhere!

Then again... you're listening to a rp'er, here. ;-)


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## Amichi (Jul 26, 2002)

*laugh* That's the same argument people apply to religion...

...but I prefer to think that there's something beyond the mundane reality some of us are stuck in. ;-) So viva la middle earth, or something.


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## Flame of Anor (Jul 27, 2002)

People once thought Europe to be Middle Earth, or still do for all I know. Hey you never know.

-Flame


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## Gandalf_White (Jul 27, 2002)

oooooooo That's almost a scary thought. Well you never know...............???????


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## ReadWryt (Jul 27, 2002)

...well, except for the complete lack of any archeological evidence of Elves, Trolls, Balrogs, giant Dwarven caverns or geological evidence that the planet was at one time flat...


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 27, 2002)

I have read an article about LOTR and Tolkien.It was said that Tolkien created another world,parallel to ours, in which people can live while they're reading.I belive ME is world which exists around us,we want ME to be real thing and with time it becomes real,while we're reading more and more from The Sil,UT.etc


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## Amichi (Jul 27, 2002)

You mean the earth isn't flat?!

Well that just throws a monkeywrench in all my plans....

In all seriousness, though, I doubt that -our- world would be a good candidate for Middle Earth. I'll still stick by the old 'in an infinite world, anything is possible' argument though!


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## Amichi (Jul 27, 2002)

This is a little bit off topic, but...

Say that the Earth's civilization was destroyed, right back to the stone age of man. Over time it rebuilds itself. During the formative years of the civilization, a group stumbles across a treasure trove of literature... someone, knowing the end was coming, began to store books. Unfortunately, they were only able to store a very few. Prevalent among these books are JRR Tolkien's books. The people take these as historical rather than fantastic, when they're translated.

What sort of civilization / religions do you think this would spawn?


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## Rasec (Jul 27, 2002)

*just an idea...*

I do not know if it exists/existed really, though i believe Middle-Earth is the best world ever and it obviously exists in our mind.
But here goes an idea: why not to build a big city like Middle-Earth?? Probably a very rich company could do that... I guess some of you have already thought about that, but i doubt there is a thread on that subject. Anyway, here goes my idea. It would be awesome to have a city like that, a real one, i mean! 
Is this possible? I believe everything is possible, and will be true someday... 

See you all,
Cesar Filho.


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## Amichi (Jul 27, 2002)

*TWITCH*

Please. No.

"TolkienLand! Ride the 'Mines of Moria'... battle Smaug in the 3D theatre... test your skill against our local Aragorn!"

*dies*


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## Ceorl (Jul 27, 2002)

Anyone read the book Otherland by Tad williams?
Quite brilliant, but the main thing is that it is set about a hundred years in the future, and the internet has developed so that you can plug yourself into it via neuro cable things, it then hacks your brainwaves and hey presto it looks smells feels and sounds like you are in another place. These places are called nodes basically they are the equivalent of websites. Basically you can form simulations in these and anything is possible. Problem is graphics arent so great, but a group of super rich companies create a supernetwork, which is infitely powerful and 100% resolution. You cannot differentiate between it and RL. In this otherland the companies build millions of simulations (one is an Incan empire as it would be today had it not been destroyed by the Spanish) but basically one smart guy does Middle-earth. There is only fleeting reference to it but the fact is that the entire theory and methods are completely plausible. Theoretically there is no reason why it wont be done within a hundred years. That is one thing to live for hey?


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## Lhunithiliel (Jul 28, 2002)

To answer this topic, I first of all would like to point out that I come from Bulgaria.
Why is it of any importance, you'd probably ask?!
Read, what I have to say and then, you might accept what I've said, or you might just as well consider it false or just as some "bla-bla" thing..... It's up to you to decide!
But I really think this way and here what it is about:

The way the Rohirim men look - I think they are Slavs! As Tolkien represented a lot of cultures in his books, I am sure he was quite familliar with the great power the ancient Slavonic peoples had in the European history! So, there is nothing strange in that! While I read these pages where Rohan and the Rohirims are described, I "see" those mighty and legendary beautiful blond-hair ancient Slavs that I know too well from the history of my own people.

Gondor, on the other hand, is STRANGLY similar to the ancient capital of Bulgaria! You, who can, come and visit the Bulgarian town of Turnovo (better in summer! where this ancient city is well preserved! You WILL BE shocked by the resemblance! Of, course, you may just look for relevant web-pages, too.
The names Boromir, Faramir etc. sound like ancient Bulgarian names, too! 
And what is even stranger - the whole structure of Rohan and Gondorian society, the rules they followed in their relations, the military yerarchy (not sure about the spelling, but don't have time now to check!) , the usual activities... EVERYTHING, is just the same as it was with the society in the once vast and powerful Bulgarian country! 

I'd like also to add a few more facts. 
The Bulgarian state, that I am speaking about, was formed in the year 681 AD by the merger of two COMPLETELY different nations - the Slavs (blond, tall, beautiful) and the Bulgarians (dark skin, hair and eyes, worriors, great riders, strong). And these nations had, of course, different names! Being an heir of those two peoples,for me, the names of Denethor, Eomer etc. fit in the history just well! The Gondorian people even look very much like the ancient (and the nowadays) Bulgarians.

So, isn't it possible that through the union between Gondor and Rohan Tolkien actually represented THAT other union of the 7-th century, that led up to the formation of a great country?!

Do you know that in Bulgaria one of the largest rivers in the country is called ARDA?

So, I am quite positive that the kingdoms of Rohan and Gondor were where now is the Balkan Peninsula. 
And in whole of Europe there is no place like the Balkan Peninsula so RICH in herbs!
So athelas could well be found in any of our woods even today... maybe we just call it with another name!

Now, what do you think about all this?


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## Ceorl (Jul 28, 2002)

Confusticated
I have asked a few friends and they all agree that 'theoretically' the thing should work, however it hasn't been confirmed. So I cant tell you that it is possible which is why I said theoretically. But think about it, our brain sends messages to our body through electronic impulses, all it is is a matter of deciphering the code, intercepting messages and sending your own back. I cannot tell you that it will happen for sure, but current technology is very close to this point I believe. Indeed scientists have already attempted (unsuccessfully) to decipher the brains neural patterns.

Do yourself a favour and read the book.


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## ReadWryt (Jul 28, 2002)

Middle-earde (Middle-earthe) being the middle english term for the "Land in between the waters", Middle-earth was meant to be an ancient prehistoric representation of our own Earth. Tolkien created the mythology after being heartstruck by the fact that England had no mythology of it's own. Here is this poor philologist reading everything he can get his hands on in the most arcane and ancient languages, most of the content of which being mythological in nature, and England was bereft of any mythology of her own. If anyone is interested I could quote the places in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien" where he discusses the fact that Middle-earth is our Earth...


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## Walter (Jul 29, 2002)

If memory serves me well, the first occurrence of men-like creatures can be dated roughly a million of years ago. The first civilizations we know of can be dated roughly some thousands of years ago. So - there should be room enough in between for 3, 4 or 5 ages of Mittelerde...


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## Jon (Jul 31, 2002)

Luthiniel - are you sure Slavs are mainly blond? I thought they were mostly dark haired and eyes with paler skin. For example Yugoslavians are dark.

Why would Tolkien base his story around Bulgaria?


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## Lantarion (Aug 1, 2002)

Hmm, odd question.. 
But I happen to believe that Tolkien wanted to loosely set Middle_Earth in Europe, metaphorically. In an excellent (IMO) book I have, the revised edition of the Atlas of Middle-Earth, maps of Arda before and after the great Change are shown; and in each map the is a largeer continent in the far south, connected to Middle-Earth, which is curiously shaped like Africa.. And the north of Middle-Earth (in the Third Age) looks a lot like Scandinavia, IMHO.


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## Ceorl (Aug 2, 2002)

I am assume you refer to the maps by David Day? He certainly knows what he is talking about but I dont think any of the Tolkiens ever verified such a map.

He is very good though isn't he?


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## Lantarion (Aug 2, 2002)

No, I actually mean the book by Karen Wynn Fonstad.


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## Tyaronumen (Aug 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ReadWryt _
> *...well, except for the complete lack of any archeological evidence of Elves, Trolls, Balrogs, giant Dwarven caverns or geological evidence that the planet was at one time flat... *




ReadWryt, didn't you know that Eru got rid of all of the evidence, remade the Earth in a round shape, and then placed the dinosaur bones in the Earth to amuse our scientists...?


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