# The Great Plague or the Kin-Strife?



## Odin (May 2, 2015)

There were two major calamities that struck Gondor during the second millennium of the Third Age. The first was the Kin-Strife which happened in TA 1437 where Castamir the Usurper overthrew King Eldacar and destroyed the Dome of the Stars in Osgiliath. This civil strife resulted in the loss of a great deal of Numenorean bloodlines as well as the city of Umbar, weakening Gondor considerably.

This was followed by the Great Plague in TA 1636 which caused a great number of casualties in Gondor, particularly in Osgiliath and Rhovanion. It was due to this huge depopulation that the Towers of the Teeth that Gondor built and garrisoned to keep a watch on Mordor were abandoned, thus leaving the pass into Mordor unblocked for the Nazgul.

Of these two catastrophes, which one would be considered the more disastrous? If one of them had not occurred, would Gondor have been in a better position to combat the forces of Sauron when he finally returned?


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## Starbrow (May 3, 2015)

I think the Kin-Strife was more disastrous. Not only did it reduce the population in Gondor, it destroyed trust and relationships among the people of Gondor. It would have been much more difficult to rebuild the country without being able to work with each other.


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 4, 2015)

I agree with Starbrow, not being able to trust the people in your own country/land would be more difficult. You can get over sickness, but it's hard to regain trust.


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## Odin (May 4, 2015)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I agree with Starbrow, not being able to trust the people in your own country/land would be more difficult. You can get over sickness, but it's hard to regain trust.



Indeed, the treason of many mighty Gondor soldiers bled Gondor of much-needed strength. Furthermore, the loss of Umbar cost Gondor it's naval stranglehold on Middle-Earth. With Umbar in the hands of the Enemy, Gondor had to expend much force to defend it's coastal cities from assault by the corsairs. Had they been able to retain Umbar as a stronghold, the South Kingdom would have had a strong base from which to battle the Haradrim and prevent them from assaulting the heart of Gondor.


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## Halasían (Dec 30, 2016)

The Kin Strife was much more grievous as it pitted Gondorians against each other. Castamir may of had a point about the mingling of Gondor's Numenorean blood reducing their overall lifespan, but he was basically an Ay-hole and pilfered any goodwill he had with many of the people who initially supported him against Eldacar. That is why after ten years when Eldacar returned with a Northman army, many Gondorians joined him. But it sundered the great sea captains of Gondor who fled to Umbar and became continual enemies that threatened the Gondorian coastline from then on.

The great plague would have caused a lot of death, and in so doing reduced the strength and population, but that was its only hurt. The Kin Strife caused many hurts among the clans of Gondor.


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## OfRhosgobel (Jan 3, 2017)

Odin said:


> There were two major calamities that struck Gondor during the second millennium of the Third Age. The first was the Kin-Strife which happened in TA 1437 where Castamir the Usurper overthrew King Eldacar and destroyed the Dome of the Stars in Osgiliath. This civil strife resulted in the loss of a great deal of Numenorean bloodlines as well as the city of Umbar, weakening Gondor considerably.
> 
> This was followed by the Great Plague in TA 1636 which caused a great number of casualties in Gondor, particularly in Osgiliath and Rhovanion. It was due to this huge depopulation that the Towers of the Teeth that Gondor built and garrisoned to keep a watch on Mordor were abandoned, thus leaving the pass into Mordor unblocked for the Nazgul.
> 
> Of these two catastrophes, which one would be considered the more disastrous? If one of them had not occurred, would Gondor have been in a better position to combat the forces of Sauron when he finally returned?



Kinstrife, for sure!


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