# Threads should not be erased.



## Gnashar_the_orc (Feb 27, 2002)

I just think that threads should not be erased, especially threads that have been viewed and replied by many people.


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## Beorn (Feb 27, 2002)

But if they threads contain personal attacks on someone, or the thread is based on something that the forum would not look good with, then they should be deleted.

Imagine if you owned a shop and someone spray-painted on your window, "John Smith is stupid," you would erase it, right? You wouldn't want it to look like you support that statement, it would make you lose customers.

So, if visitors are offended by something that is said, then we'll lose visitors or members.


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## Uminya (Feb 27, 2002)

The number of replies on a particular thread certainly affects how that thread will be dealt with, but if the thread has A) no point B) offensive content or C) degenerated into nothing but personal/belief attacks; it will be considered (and most likely) deleted.

The administration and its representative reserve the right to enforce the policies of the administration, of whom this site is the sole property of.


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## Eomer Dinmention (Feb 28, 2002)

But there are some threads that are really old and haven't been active since this forum started the new version. 

So that should be destroy
I agree with Beorn and Cir


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## bunnywhippit (Feb 28, 2002)

Is it not possible to close threads to new replys and delete any unsavoury posts within that thread? That would be good for threads that at least started out with a serious point and contain many interesting posts.


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## Beorn (Feb 28, 2002)

The thing is, if a mod wants to delete a bunch of posts, they've gotta do it one at a time. The click the Edit button, Check Delete, Click Delete, and reload the page. Then they goto the next one....

King E: I think Gnashar was talking about threads that are active...


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## Uminya (Mar 1, 2002)

There is a way of deleting any number of posts on a thread of one time, but it is tricky, and if you aren't paying close attention, you may delete the wrong ones accidentally.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ciryaher _
> *The number of replies on a particular thread certainly affects how that thread will be dealt with, but if the thread has A) no point B) offensive content or C) degenerated into nothing but personal/belief attacks; it will be considered (and most likely) deleted.
> 
> The administration and its representative reserve the right to enforce the policies of the administration, of whom this site is the sole property of. *





That is the way is should be.


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## Ancalagon (Mar 3, 2002)

Threads are deleted for a reason, usually because they are out-of-date, pointless, or offensive in content. As a moderator, I don't seek anyone's approval to remove a thread if it has no place in the forum. Therefore, concentrate on the ones that are active and forget those that have been removed. It's simple really.


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## daisy (Mar 3, 2002)

Anc, you're so cute when you're being serious


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## Ancalagon (Mar 4, 2002)

Thank-you my dearest Daisy; once again you light up my day with your flattery. It is a known fact that Dragons crave flattery, I am no different.


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## daisy (Mar 4, 2002)

Ever read The Paper Bag Princess by Robert Munsch? - it could be about US!!!!


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Mar 4, 2002)

*REPLY TO BEORN*

BEORN: I understand completely what you are saying here but:
This is no shop. We are not paying anything to be here. I think that gives us a right to express any personal opinion. HOWEVER: I do agree that when there are personal attacks and vulgar expressions something has to be done. BUT: There is absolutely NO NEED for a whole thread to be erased. The moderators, I'm sure, could just erase the abusive message.


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## Beorn (Mar 4, 2002)

Actually, you don't have any rights whatsoever.

The owner of this forum, Mr. A-P, and the head mod, RW, control entirely what you can and cannot do on this forum. Because of the fact that it is privately owned, WM and RW can set up their own rules, enforce their own rules, set themselves outside of the rules, or even delete something because they feel like it.

Even though they don't do the last two, they do set up their own rules, which means that if they feel that some rules are being violated, they can solve the problem in any way they feel like.

Because we don't pay for services, we don't need to be given the ability to help in the creation of rules, the ability to enforce them, or the ability to fight against them.

In essence, this could be a forum where we're not allowed to speak outside of the opinions of everyone else. But, it's not like that because then there would be next to no people here!


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## Anduril (Mar 4, 2002)

I think that we can shape things in two ways...doing this as a crucible of ideas and opinions, or a market with a lot of nonsense themes or topics...
If we're referring to the definition of "Forum" (as this site is called):

Forum \Fo"rum\, n.; pl. E. Forums, L. Fora. [L.; akin to
foris, foras, out of doors. See Foreign.]
1. A market place or public place in Rome, where causes were
judicially tried, and orations delivered to the people.

2. A tribunal; a court; an assembly empowered to hear and
decide causes.

He [Lord Camden] was . . . more eminent in the
senate than in the forum. 

Or even better:

forum
n 1: a public meeting or assembly for open discussion
2: a public place to meet for open discussion [syn: assembly,
meeting place]
3: a place of assembly for the people in ancient Greece [syn: agora,
public square]

I liked the last two...

I attached this site to my browser with the spirit of learning about a great common theme: Tolkien (I have to recognize that I'm not a native speaker, so, "forgive my occasional lapsus in french", but I also recognize that we must hear different opinions based in different experiences and cultures, that's why managing a site like this is complicated (the mods have to equilibrate wisdom and tolerance); I think that we must appeal our good sense and taste of things, because every decsion taken here, affect the most of us.
I support the points expressed for Beorn...


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## Grond (Mar 5, 2002)

Thank you Anduril for your insightful post. I haven't jumped into the fray on this thread because I wanted to see where it would go first. After a little development, Mike B er I mean Beorn has pointed out the most important thing, this website is a free offering to the public by the WebMaster. The Moderators are volunteers who take time out of their own lives to help this forum be what it is. That is a place where people who love Tolkien may go and learn and commune with others of like minds.

If anyone thinks that a moderator simply deletes a very long thread without thought, then they are wrong. We have many tools that the forum public doesn't know about at our disposal to handle problem posts and problem threads. We may quarantine the thread and "clean it up" as has been suggested, we may make other changes or we may simply make it disappear. We don't ask for a vote, sometimes we don't even consult with the other moderators, sometimes we just delete it. It you feel a thread is deleted without reason, your recourse is to PM either WebMaster or ReadWryt and complain to them. 

I, like Ancalagon, do not seek anyone's approval to take corrective action in a thread. My job is to see that rules are enforced and the forum runs smoothly and that is what I will do.


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## Anduril (Mar 5, 2002)

Hey..thanks Grond for reading my "little" text...

I think, like others here, that your labor is very important for the good performance of a site like this...even if you're a "nebulous" entities outside the web...

Thanks for keeping in touch, wherever you are...


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## Treebeard (Mar 5, 2002)

So, Grond, I bet having the power to delete whatever you want makes you feel llike Mr. Big Man...just kidding, I don't care.


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## daisy (Mar 5, 2002)

*Stating the obvious*

But Grond actually IS Mr. Big Man, so what's your point?


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## Grond (Mar 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Treebeard _
> *So, Grond, I bet having the power to delete whatever you want makes you feel llike Mr. Big Man...just kidding, I don't care. *


Treebeard, you will not likely find a more amicable person than the Grondster. I don't really like conflict but have strong convictions. The measure of character is knowing when and how to use power. Having a button to delete a post doesn't rate very high on the power index.

Actually, since being appointed a moderator, I have deleted one whole thread and it was a thread that was accidentally started. Someone hit the New Thread button instead of the Quote button. I advised them of their error and directed them to copy the post to the correct thread before I deleted it. 

I do not see this as a big issue. We rarely delete threads unless they are three or four months old and haven't been posted to in a few months. Mass deletions of this nature are done by Webmaster and ReadWryt so us lowly Moderators are not really involved in those descisions. Primarily, our job is to make sure the forum runs smoothly. My quote about deleting posts simply reflects that I will do whatever I feel necessary to keep the forum running smoothly and conflict free.


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## Treebeard (Mar 7, 2002)

I was only kidding, Grond. You don't have to explain yourself to me, anyway. Just don't be hasty. That's my motto. But you already knew that. You may be a moderator, but don't forget that I'm older than the hills. Hum Hom!


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## Gnashar_the_orc (Mar 7, 2002)

Why o why do people always seem to disagree with me!


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## Anduril (Mar 7, 2002)

well...your title is very "orckish"...


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## Khamul (Mar 7, 2002)

Whats wrong with that? He has a right to be evil.


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## Anduril (Mar 7, 2002)

jeeeeee...

That's a natural right...

Anyone can be whatever she/he wants, and this idea reinforces in this forum...


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## daisy (Mar 7, 2002)

Weelll, I don't think people have the right to be:
1. arsonists
2.terrorists
3. murderers
4.pedophiles
5.rapists

Cause then you go to jail!


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## Anduril (Mar 7, 2002)

I'm terribly sorry....my "sintax" wasn't quite good...

Anyone has the right to be anything she/he wants, in the order that she/he not cause damage to the others...
This sounds like Voltaire or Weber...


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## Ancalagon (Mar 7, 2002)

Jeez Daisy, good to see some light-hearted interjection by your goodself!


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## daisy (Mar 7, 2002)

I know - I 'm am almost like a cream puff!! When will I say something serious?

you're right as usual Scaly-face( of course this is affectionate) - I did come out swinging a wee bit agressively, eh?


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## Grond (Mar 7, 2002)

gnasher, I don't disagree with you, I was simply letting you know how things work in this forum. Moderators do things on the forum on the behalf of the WebMaster not the members. Our job is to keep everyone as happy as possible, maintain the rules of the forum and keep it as uncluttered as possible. Since storage space costs money and none of the members seem willing to use the SEARCH feature on their computer, we moderators attempt to merge duplicate threads all the time; however, there are times when a purge occurs where any thread that hasn't been posted on for say four months is killed. That is because it no longer serves a useful function, in other words, it has run its course. It is taking up hard-disk space (aka money) and we want to optimize WM's money, especially since our presence here is FREE. 

I always find it amusing when people who pay nothing to participate in a site make definitive statements about how the site should be run.


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 7, 2002)

Anduril and Beorn have very good points that should be listened to\.

I agree with them 100%. I am kinda a joker my self so don't take what I am saying to be the 100% way i feel. I like being serious, but I think that it is MUCH more important to be happy. Does any one else feel this way????? 

Oh well just though i would tell Beorn and Andruil that I though they did very well in speaking.  

If we do change anything here PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't take away the Smilies!!!! they are such fun and a good way to express yourself. See:      Oh deer she is doing it again!!! using thoes Smilies


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## Anduril (Mar 7, 2002)

Hey..thanks Lyl (again, twice in this day)...
And sorry if something that I said was bothering for you, Grond, my mistake...


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 7, 2002)

I love being thanked!!! hehe.


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## Anduril (Mar 7, 2002)

Ok..."thanks"...three times today...a record...


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 7, 2002)

Thank you for thanking me!!!


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## Grond (Mar 7, 2002)

And this thread may have set a record too. Surely it is right up near the top on the "pointless post" scale. There is a topic. Posts are supposed to concern that topic. If you want to thank one another, great... do it in emails or private messages. Pointless posts clog up the landscape and make everyone who is subscribed click to the thread expecting something profound or at least something on topic.


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 7, 2002)

Sory!! I got a little carried away. 

I know I have said this in saying that I agree with people, but I think that I should try to put what I feel into words. As Grond said, and I quote 
"Pointless posts clog up the landscape and make everyone who is subscribed click to the thread expecting something profound or at least something on topic."

So I shall state what I feel about the topic at hand.

Sould threads be erased???

It is nice and all to discuss what is happening but why not try to get to the root of the problem?? Wether threads should be deleated or not is the problem, so why don't we find a soulution to it???
(I know this is going to be contriversial to what I have been doing, but just sit through it for a while)

Well I think thatthey should. The ones that have not been used in months for instance. I mean what is the great pull that keeps us to these dorment and extict threads?? Nothing but the thought that you might lose something, Right?? Well if you do feel like that, then here is an idea. Why dont you write down quots you liked about that thread?? I find only one problem with that, You never know when a thread will be erased. so here is my solution to that problem, Why don't we put a thread for the threads that will be deleated??

I mean wouldn't that solve the Problem ritght there??? 
It would not be a question of if the thread would be erased, but when it would. If you gave a two or three day notice so that people could get the info the wanted, there would be no problem, would there???

It would be asking a lot of the web master, I don't know how dedicated he is or how much time he has or, well I don't know a lot, but I know that I am trying to put up a soulution and not just an argument.


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## Grond (Mar 7, 2002)

Lillyaundra, your post is on topic and a real contribution. Thank you for your insightful post. By the way, your smilies are safe.


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## DGoeij (Mar 8, 2002)

Lilliaundra (I still think that is a beautiful name), has a very good point. When us (very thankfull for this great forum, don't get me wrong) members are warned beforehand, the ones that wish to store some of the info for themselves can do so. Then the thread can be safely deleted.

But then again, I'm not sure if that is worth the effort since I'm not sure if anybody really wishes to do that. Well, this thread is open for discussion. I guess we'll hear (read) from people if so.

I personally do not feel the need to store threads for myself, but some might? Would it be a too much work to give a "Thread Deletion Imminent" warning? I don't know how often the forum is 'cleaned' and how much threads need deletion then.

EDIT: And I have put my sig back, wooohooo!


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 8, 2002)

Yes, I don't know how much time it would take. It is just an idea. I am sure there is a better soulution but I am just haveing problems thinking right now. I would really be interesded in hearing some other points of veiw. Maby ones that have less time asked of the webmaster.     

Oh and YAY!!! my smilies are safe!!


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## Grond (Mar 8, 2002)

If there is a particular thread that you feel is important, it would behoove you to keep it active. To my knowledge, active threads are never deleted unless the thread has content that would warrant deletion.


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 8, 2002)

Yes I agree. I am keeping the threads I like very active, with the help of many many many many many others!!


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## ReadWryt (Mar 8, 2002)

Ah, now you have drifted into a subject near and dear enough to my heart that I will get involved. Threads that have not been used in a long time, but none the less contain usefull information that could be beneficial to future users as well as the "old same crowd".

I've been, for several months, talking to the Webmaster about finding some way to archive old threads that have not been used in a while in the hopes that we could make them available to people to use as a reference. There are many logistical problems involved in this, how do we format this information?...If we save it as Web Pages how do we incorperate it into a Forum that is operated using a Database?...things like this.

We were kind of hoping that the last promised upgrade of vBulletin would have been 3.0 instead of merely the 2.2.2 patch because the former contains some solutions to this quandary but alas...it was not to be.

If anybody has some valuble suggestions about what you would like to see in some archive insofar as ease of use or catagorization if information, I would welcome it!


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## Anduril (Mar 8, 2002)

I believe that storing old threads as a reference is a good idea...(the latin word for this is Vademecum, mmmmmm)...

I think that certain "mb" can be used for helpful hinces or clues for future and remote referencies...as a "legacy"...nicht war?


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 8, 2002)

OOOOOOOOO AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! 

I am in awe of your idea ReadWryt!!
That is the best idea I have heard!!


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## DGoeij (Mar 10, 2002)

Always handy to have an expert around. I find it very hard to translate practical ideas in working computer software. 

Personally, and if possible, I'd say threads that covered subjects that involve better understanding of ME and such......

Now that was a very precise decrition, wasn't it? I mean threads with subjects like: Balrog wings?, What is an Orcs exactly?, Why Moria?. Things like that, where serious debate has been about and which encouraged people to quote, interpret and speculate about.

Gosh, am I making myself clear here? I'm a bit tired and reading back, I do not seem to be hitting the point.


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 13, 2002)

I think that you hit your point well enough. I feel that a catologue may be very useful. If not tooo much trouble was required to put it up.


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## Anduril (Mar 13, 2002)

I support the idea of the catalogue, but Wouldn't it be great if the catalogue includes the names of the participants?


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## Lillyaundra (Mar 13, 2002)

That would be cool!


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