# Gwindor doing Morgoth's will?



## Confusticated (Apr 17, 2005)

> But ever the Noldor feared most the treachery of those of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; for Morgoth used some of these for his evil purposes, and feigning to give them liberty sent them abroad, but their wills were chained to his, and they strayed only to come back to him again. Therefore if any of his captives escaped in truth, and returned to their own people, they had little welcome, and wandered alone outlawed and desperate.



Though Gwindor is said to have escaped, given all that happened, do you see any chance that he was an instrument of Morgoth's evil will?

Did the elves of Nargothrond have sufficient reason to trust Gwindor in your opinion?


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## Alcuin (Apr 17, 2005)

Nóm said:


> Though Gwindor is said to have escaped, given all that happened, do you see any chance that he was an instrument of Morgoth's evil will?
> 
> Did the elves of Nargothrond have sufficient reason to trust Gwindor in your opinion?


What did Gwindor do that made him "an instrument of Morgoth's evil will?"

As for whether the folk of Nargothrond had sufficient reason to trust Gwindor, consider the quote: Morgoth generally released thralls to create wickedness and distrust: sc. Maeglor and Hurin.


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## Elemmire (May 9, 2005)

I think it's a very reasonable theory, especially considering the result of his "escape." Mainly, Turin coming to Nargothrond, and its subsequent destruction.

Even if this is the case, I don't necessarily think that he was conscious of the use Morgoth had for him.

It's implied in the Lays of Beleriand that he and Turin are admitted into Nargothrond mainly because of Finduilas. Whether this is sufficient reason to trust someone...? Probably not.


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## Inderjit S (May 10, 2005)

Good point. Morgoth was able to send Gwindor as a weapon (though a disguised one) to disrupt the lives and realms of the Elves and Men who opposed him, much like he was later able to use Hurin and Sauron Denethor.

He may have had some degree of foresight i.e he may have known that Gwindor's release would be disruptive and destructive-and it was.


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## Ingwë (May 11, 2005)

It is quite possible. Melkor has used many elves and men for his evil deeds. Why not Gwindor. I think a curse was lain upon Turin Turambar but Gwindor may been infected, too. He didn't looked infected, he looked as he was Wise and valiant but Melkor is too powerful and he may use his enemies as a toys without any sign.


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## Thorondor_ (May 16, 2005)

I don't think Gwindor was doing Morgoth's will. He advised against fighting on open fields, following the advice Ulmo had told Círdan, that the Elves of Nargothrond shouldn't fight abroad and stay in their fortress. If he was affected by Morgoth, he wouldnt have given good advice, compliant with a vala.


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