# Ungoliant



## Dáin Ironfoot I (Dec 20, 2002)

So, my question is this: Is Ungoliant a Maia, Vala ( ) or something else. If something else, explain to me what exactly this vile Spider Queen is and how she got to be so powerful (who, what created her) or anything else you may want to add.

I voted for something else, but Im not sure as to what the reason was...


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## Celebthôl (Dec 20, 2002)

she is a being Melkor perverted into darkness when he was at full power! thats all i no sorry! well she is a giant spider  

Thôl


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## morello13 (Dec 20, 2002)

i thought there was some text in the publlished silmarillion that said she was a Maiar, i wont be able to check until christmas when i get nice hardcover ediotns of the sil, the hobbit, and LotR, Yea.


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## Rúmil (Dec 20, 2002)

I think she was an Elda. Explanation:




*Facts about Ungoliant*

1 - what is Ungoliant? a Spider. What does is her main characteristic as a spider? To weave webs. This perticular Spider seemed to be very good at it.

2 - When does she first appear in the history of Arda? a few days before the Darkening of Valinor.

3 - When does she disappear? a long time after the beginning of the First Age.

4 - What was her action? To draw out the life-force from the Trees.





*Whom are those facts also true of?*
Well, think of someone who:

1 - was such a weaver her skills earned her the name Serindë

2 - "died" *cough, cough* a few years before the Darkening

3 - "reappeared" a long time after the beginning of the First Age (see Morgoth's Ring, the late QS)

4 - Was closely connected to one whose main achievement was to draw some of the life-force from the Trees (in order to make the Silmarils)


Remind you of anyone? No? Remember the mother of Fëanor, Míriel? Well, she died of exhaustion after giving birth to her mighty son. Or so the loremasters would have us _believe_, all too anxious to conceal the dreadful truth. Just suggesting. _Very strongly suggesting._ 
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Seriously, though, I think she was a perverted Maia.


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## Celebithil (Dec 20, 2002)

*Lost Tales*

In the the lost tales tolkien talks about how Ungoliant it was spelled differently (Ungwe) but same charachter the book says she "for here dwelt the primeval spirit Moru whome even the Valar know not whence or when she came"


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: Lost Tales*



> _Originally posted by Celebithil _
> *In the the lost tales tolkien talks about how Ungoliant it was spelled differently (Ungwe) but same charachter the book says she "for here dwelt the primeval spirit Moru whome even the Valar know not whence or when she came" *


Ok,but what kind of spirit is she?If she is a Vala the other Valar should know her.That makes me think it is possible Moru to be a mighty Maia...well I'm not sure actually what she is.... 
Probably something else?


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## childoferu (Aug 6, 2009)

Like Bombadil, its never actually confirmed what she is, but IMHO I believe she's Maiar from what I read in the Sil


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## Confusticated (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm starting to remember why I used to miss Rumil. Don't remember that post though.:*D


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## YayGollum (Sep 17, 2010)

Woah! Garn. That is not even halfway cool, the Rumil person. An awesome theory, and so obvious, once it has been pointed out! Argh! I was blind! I thank you muchly. The Ungoliant question has been solved for forever. Before I knew this truth, I would have said that she was just another monster, one of the many things that Orome hunted, which Eru populated Arda with, apparently just for him.


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## Confusticated (Sep 17, 2010)

Its half as cool as what Rumil said that my bumping of this thread was shown to be of value to someone!


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## Ithirahad (Apr 24, 2015)

Yep, almost certainly a Maiar. Either that, or a shapeshifting, darkness-wielding alien from one of those "_*other regions and histories of the Great Tale*_" somewhere amongst the "_*stars remote and worlds beyond the reach of the furthest thought.*_"


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## King Naugladur (Apr 24, 2015)

Perhaps her existence was caused by Melkor's discord during the Music of the Ainur, since neither the Eldar nor the Valar knew her origins. This can also explain her allegiance to none but her hunger.
King Naugladur.


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## Ithirahad (Apr 24, 2015)

King Naugladur said:


> Perhaps her existence was caused by Melkor's discord during the Music of the Ainur, since neither the Eldar nor the Valar knew her origins. This can also explain her allegiance to none but her hunger.
> King Naugladur.


I... don't think that Melkor's discord could create life, all it did/could do is throw the life already planned to exist into conflict. Besides, Melkor wouldn't wilfully create something he couldn't control.


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## King Naugladur (Apr 24, 2015)

The singing of the Ainur could create life. Manwe's singing brought the Eagles forth. Melkor's malice could create only perverted forms of life, like Ungoliand and/or the Nameless Things. Melkor thought he could control Ungoliant, but this was not the case. Had she not been strengthened by drinking the Wells of Varda ary and devouring the jewels of Formenos, Melkor perhaps would be able to repel her on his own.
King Naugladur.


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## Gothmog (Apr 24, 2015)

The singing of the Ainur could not create life. What happened was that Eru Gave life to that which the Ainur brought forth in the Music. So I agree with the King that Ungoliant was possibly a result of the discord of Melkor.


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## King Naugladur (Apr 25, 2015)

Thanks, Gothmog. Checked it in The Silmarillion and saw that you are right that Eru was the one that gave life to what the Ainur sang.
King Naugladur.


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