# What happens after the Lord of the Rings?



## Adanedhel (Dec 18, 2011)

Please express your thoughts. I would like to read them!:*)


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 18, 2011)

Eldarion, the son of Aragorn, bestows the rich land of Ithilien to the remnants of Nardor.


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## Mike (Dec 18, 2011)

Then Great Cthulhu took residence in the sunken ruins of Numenor, and the peoples of Middle-Earth felt a great dreaming shadow polluting the west. Then the shoggoths did crawl from the depths of Moria, and things would never be the same.

(Hint: the Watcher in the Water is actually one of the ancient old ones)


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## Adanedhel (Dec 19, 2011)

do you agree with the return of Morgoth from the Void. The two blue evil istari would prepare the return of their master.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Dec 19, 2011)

It's never stated anywhere that the blue istari are evil. Tolkien said they _may_ have created cults in the east, but didn't stand on this 100% and they were never servants of Morgoth. The Istari came after Morgoth was thrown out and Beleriand was drowned.

The final battle is the Dagor Dagorath:



> According to the prophecy, Morgoth will discover how to break the Door of Night, and will destroy the Sun and the Moon. For the love of these, Eärendil will return from the sky and shall meet Tulkas, Manwë, Eonwe (with the old version of his name Fionwe) and Túrin Turambar on the plains of Valinor. Also, the rest of the Valar, and the great host of Valinor including the Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri will be present as well. All the Free Peoples of Middle-earth will participate in this final battle, Elves, Men and Dwarves alike. To their number will be added Ar-Pharazôn and the Númenóreans who landed at Aman in SA 3319
> 
> Many fallen enemies shall return to fight on Morgoth's side as well. Sauron, whose ruined spirit fled to the Void after the destruction of the Ring, will be present at Dagor Dagorath. On an excerpt from a letter of Tolkien's, a new Ainu shall enter Arda upon the side of Melkor, and will aid him in battle. This Ainu is said to have a special relationship with Mandos, although it is not known whether or not he is a Vala or Maia. He is said to be held equal with Sauron, and his name was given by Christopher Tolkien as Gilthrang. It is said that all types of Morgoth's creations will return, and that Orcs, Trolls, Dragons, Balrogs, Demons, Wraiths, Serpents and other fearsome creatures will return. Gandalf at least believes that the Witch-king of Angmar and the others of the Nazgûl shall not die but be thrown into the Void with Sauron at the destruction of the One Ring (_The Return of the King_, "The Siege of Gondor"). This suggests that if Sauron becomes free of the Void they may also be. Saruman and many other men of evil from the third age will join; it is unknown if they will turn good or remain evil.
> 
> ...


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 19, 2011)

Excuse me but the blue wizards were not evil. They did nearly as much, if not as much and more, than Gandalf. They nurtured and prepared the kingdom of Nardor for the Great Wars of the South, of which the people of Gondor knew little, if anything at all. Had it not been for Nardor, Sauron would have destroyed Gondor long before the Ring ever came to Bilbo. [SUP]FF[/SUP]

What happens after Lord of the Rings? We know Eldarion inherits the throne of Gondor. We know Eldarion subdued the Nardorians and learnt their history. I think that he, being a wise and just king, would have bestowed Ithilien upon them. There they would have settled, as allies and also subjects of Gondor. They would fight alongside the Rangers there. (Nardorians, while they lived in the North and battled the Rangers of Arnor, were referred to by the Rangers as "dark rangers", due to the fact that though they were the equal of the Rangers, they were darker skinned (nowhere near the complexion of the Haradrim though) and most had dark hair, and they had a dark and brooding demeanor, and were crueler, and also sometimes fought for evil). [SUP]FF[/SUP]

We are sure Eldarion would do that. But what of Radagast and the Blue Wizards? As Gandalf was sailing away, Radagast comes riding up to Mithlond, only to see Gandalf sitting on the stern of the elven ship, laughing. Radagast, realizing he is doomed to spend his life on Middle-earth, gives Gandalf the finger. Who knows what Radagast did after that? Perhaps he started teaching botany and ecology. 

Now for the blue wizards. Who knows what happened after Nardor fell? Were they killed in the final great battle? Did they escape? Did they join Sauron? I like to think that they, like other Nardorians, escaped. They however did not journey north, but instead went even further east. What they did there I cannot say. But it is told that in Eldarions 80th year being king, two strangers in bluish-grey or dirty blue came from the east. They took up their abode in Mordor, the land no one had dared to enter for over 200 years. [SUP]FF
[/SUP]
More on that later perhaps.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 20, 2011)

Bard the Bowman and Erestor Arcamen, i know that Tolkien never wrote that the two blue istari turned to evil and worshiped Melkor. I just recommend a seacelessness of the Lord of the Rings with a little bit of my thoughts. Don't get it wrong:*). I know about the Dagor Dagorath. I just like the idea of making a story that would end with the Dagor Dagorath. I believe that someone should prepare the arrival of Melkor in Arda. Question: Bard the Bowman, where have you read about Nardor? 
Oh, and i do apologise for my english. It's not my mother language. I hope you understand what i'm writing.:*D


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 20, 2011)

Adanedhel, sorry to dash your hopes but the Legend of Nardor was written by a fan. I put [SUP]FF [/SUP]after the Nardor stuff, which stands for Fan Fiction. However, it is likely it existed.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 21, 2011)

"We know Eldarion subdued the Nardorians and learnt their history. I think that he, being a wise and just king, would have bestowed Ithilien upon them."

Where from do we know this?


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 21, 2011)

We know Eldarion did that because the Legend says so.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 21, 2011)

which legend?


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## Adanedhel (Dec 21, 2011)

C'mon people! I need ideas! What could happen after the LotR that would lead to the Dagor Dagorath?


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## Prince of Cats (Dec 21, 2011)

Apparently it's just more fan-fiction. Don't get me wrong; fan-fiction is great. Let's look at another piece of fan fiction, though: Peter Jackson's LOTR movies. If someone started posting history that exists only in his movies and not in Tolkien's writing we (or at least I) wouldn't want that posted as history in the Middle Earth legendarium.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 21, 2011)

There are few reports of the author himself of what could happen till the Last battle. So, why don't we expand the reports of Tolkien about the New Shadow?


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## Adanedhel (Dec 23, 2011)

Maybe the Dunedain were in need of help because of the rise of the new Shadow. And then an unexpected aid from The Ancient West came: Ingwe and all the mighty Vanyar. What do you think of?


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 24, 2011)

The Blue Wizards emerge from the Far East. After the destruction of Nardor, they escaped to the east and started practicing dark magic. With their sorcerers guild, they journeyed back and settled in Mordor. The Nardorians, now residing in Ithilien after Eldarion granted it to them for the wrongs done to them by Gondor, all knew the history of the Blue Wizards, the stewards of Nardor. They paid them reverence and, under no oath of fealty to Eldarion or Gondor, joined them. The Nardorians slowly increased their numbers, and soon east of the Anduin was the domain of the Nardorians. However, this time there was no king; the Blue Wizards were in complete control. They now carried staffs of iron, and their blue cloaks continued to darken. After 100 years had passed since they arrived inside the Mountains of Ash, the Nardorians, ruled by the Blue Wizards and their sorcerers, waged war on Gondor. 

Please, feel free to continue the story.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 25, 2011)

Then the Nardorians sent ambassadors of peace to the Haradrim who had increased their numbers and had as their leader a shirttail grandson of Herumor called Turumor(?). Turumor, feeling more a son of Harad than of Numenor and full of hate for the Dunedain of the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor and their allies, especially the Rohirrim who had won them in the battle of Pelennor, made alliance with the Nardorians and joined them in war. And the Haradrim prepared for war and impainted the oliphants with colors of blood and fear and grinded their swords.
What do you think of?
Whoever wants to continue the story, do not hesitate!


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 26, 2011)

However, Galion of the Nardorians, who was also rumoured to be a descendant of the kings of Nardor, fearing treachery from Turumor, spoke to the Blue Wizards about his concerns. And before invading Gondor, Turumor was mysteriously and violently murdered. The Blue Wizards seized control of the Haradrim, and prepared an invasion larger than any since the time of the dark lord Sauron. 30,000 Haradrim were mustered. The scattered remnants of the Corsairs of Umbar were gathered, around 5,000. Khand was subdued, and 10,000 men joined the cause. And finally the Nardorians and the Sorcerers of Mordor. Galion led an army of 25,000 of the finest troops in Middle-earth. 

But Gondor had prospered since the time of Elessar, and Gondor had a frontline army of 35,000. Umbar indeed was well defended, but the Haradrim slowly gained ground in Umbar. Soon all of Umbar would be under control of the Blue Wizards. Eldarion was actually in Umbar at that time, and fearing that many men would be killed and Umbar would be lost anyway, Eldarion abandoned it and sailed for Pelargir, burning the remaining vessels. 

However, he would find no refuge in Pelargir. The Nardorians had acted swiftly. Galion was a great leader, and he had set sail secretly from Osgiliath down river with 5,000 men, including his royal guard of 500, avoiding detection by the Gondorian sentinels. They were welcomed in Pelargir, as they falsely reported an approaching invasion from Khand and Harad. In the night, the Nardorians slew the sentries, and massacred the population. The women and children they shut out, and they fled northward. Indeed after the capture of Pelargir Galion sent out messages to "loyal" soldiers of Eldarion throughout the United Kingdom, who would start rebellions.

So when Eldarion arrived he knew things were not right. Galion saw Eldarion was suspicious, and loosed arrows after Eldarion's men had disembarked. Many men were shot down. Galion also led a mounted charge of over 1000 horsemen, and they slaughtered most of Eldarion's force. Ships were burned. A complete victory for Nardor. Galion however was furious; Eldarion had slipped away with 3 ships and sailed northward for Mithlond, where the soldiers would still be loyal to him. They were of the old soldiers, true descendants of the Rangers of the North. And so he landed safely, and gathering his forces in Mithlond moved to Annuminas, which was still loyal. Indeed most of the northern rebellions had failed, and the King maintained control down to Isengard. 

Gondor had suffered badly though. Lossanarch had nearly been annihilated, until help from Minas Tirith had arrived to rescue the few remaining survivors. Dol Amroth remained, but Belfalas and the Ringlo Vale and Morthond had been overrun, and the proud knights of Dol Amroth had enclosed themselves in their indomitable city. The western fiefs were of little concern to Galion, and were not infiltrated. To attempt treachery in Lamedon was a useless cause, as they were stubborn beyond measure. But Lebennin was also subdued, and the fleeing refugees were hunted and cut down by Galion and his riders coming up from Pelargir. 

With chaos reigning throughout Gondor, and only Minas Tirith, Cair Andros, Dol Amroth, and Osgiliath remaining totally firm, the Blue Wizards planned their full scale invasion of the United Kingdom. They would have to contend with Rohan as well. King Eorine (sorry couldn't think of a better name) was a loyal friend of Eldarion's, and had fought by his side through many campaigns. And he commanded 20,000 riders, plus footmen. The uprising had happened too suddenly for Eorine to react in time, but messengers from Minas Tirith had reached him in Edoras, and now he marshalled his troops. Word reached him that Eldarion was marching southward with his northern army, and they arranged somehow to meet at Isengard. The Blue Wizards had on top of the Gondorian rebel armies, the Nardorian armies in Ithilien and Mordor, the Sorcerers of Mordor, the Variag army, Galion's army in Pelargir, and the massive Haradrim army issuing from the south. 

This would be the greatest war since the Last Alliance.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 28, 2011)

Six days after Eorine and his riders left Edoras, he had gathered every man capable to fight, from West Emnet to East Emnet and from WEstfold to Eastfold. The seventh day they reached the gap of Rohan and turned north to Isengard. There, Eldarion had called up many forces from the northern and the southern kingdom as well, 45,000 men. There were also many Druedain(4,000 men), led by Daghan, and a few hobbits from the Shire, mostly from the west march (1,500 men), led by Hugo Brandybuck (the grandson of Meriadoc Brandybuck). And for the first time, men from far Forodwaith had came to aid the Dunedain at their war (5,000 men). The Forodrim (as the men of Forodwaith were called) was a people with great endurance and their unexpected help gave courage to all. Their leader, Farmendal, like his people, was a man to trust. 

Thus, a great army was assembled in Isengard and the spirit of the men was high. And two days after the arrival of the Rohirrim, the army marched eastwards. Alas, as they had just crossed the Mering Stream , they came upon two Gondorian heralds with bad news; The two Wizards were in truth the Blue Istari, for whom no tale had spoken for many centuries, Alatar and Pallando, Maiar from the Undying Lands. Fear and terror overcame the army with these news. But there were more bad news. The two Blue Wizards had secretly summoned an enormous number of Easterlings who were still living without laws far away, beyond the Orocarni. They had swiftly crossed Rhun and were now less than 100 miles away from the old gate of Morannon. The scouts of Gondor reported an army of 80,000 footmen and 15,000 Wainriders (once more!)! As regards the Haradrim, they were wading the Harad Road and had just crossed the Harnen River.

Eldarion, decided with Eorine and the other leaders to encamp near the Stream. They sent messengers to North Rhovanion to ask for aid from the indigenous peoples. Eldarion's army would remain in Anorien for 10 days at most. They couldn't stay longer for they would have to march against the Nardorian armies. But then, the ninth day after they had encamped, the most uncalculated and beautiful thing happened. A great army of Elves arrived. But they weren't Noldor, neither Teleri. They were Vanyar, led by their ancient King Ingwe. They had come from Aman to help their brothers for the first time. The emotion of both armies, men and elves, was great.

If you wish to change or add something, please, do not hesitate.
Bard the Bowman, what do you think of? ( I know, too many armies...):*D


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 29, 2011)

You sure like the Vanyar. Anyway, back to work.

The messages sent to the north had mixed results. The Beornings and Woodmen, though fierce and hardy, were little inclined to march forward to a distant threat, while they were living in peace. Dale and Erebor were under siege already, as the Wainriders had traveled north ahead of Eldarion's scouts and attacked the two kingdoms. As the messengers were heading back with no aid at all they were stopped in southern Mirkwood, what used to be East Lorien, by elves. These were dark elves from the First Age, who had refused both summons of the Valar. But just as they were about to kill the scouts they told them about the coming of the Vanyar, and that they could still go to Valinor. And after much debate 2000 dark elves joined Eldarion's army. Eldarion now felt himself able to assault the enemy. 

The Nardorian army had already taken Osgiliath with help from the Blue Wizards and their sorcerers. They were busy preparing siege towers and rams for the assault on Minas Tirith. Eldarion could see the beacons blazing, and he knew if he was to save Minas Tirith he would have to act quickly. King Eorine and his 20,000 riders he sent to aid Minas Tirith, which had fallen under siege now. The Nardorians however, could not break the mithril gates. Eldarion and Ingwe crossed the Anduin and headed for Rhun, to meet the Easterling army. However, Eldarion and 25,000 of his Arnorians turned south toward the Morannon and entered Mordor. The Blue Wizards were there now with their sorcerers and a Nardorian Guard. They had rebuilt Barad-dur except with a bluish tint now. Despair filled Eldarion's heart as he looked at the tower. And he knew that he had made a fatal mistake. Only Ingwe and his fair elves could defeat the Blue Wizards he thought, and hastily he cut a retreat out of Mordor. But many of his men were cut down by arrows and fire from the sorcerers. 

Elsewhere things had gone much worse. Galion had amassed a Gondorian rebel army in Pelargir, and he moved to capture Dol Amroth. He had 15,000 rebels, on top of his original 5,000, which had been cut down to 4,000. He did not wait to meet the Haradrim army of now 40,000, but instead attacked Dol Amroth. He was beaten back in the first wave, and instead journeyed northward to Minas Tirith. This was several days before Eorine and his riders set out for Minas Tirith, and Galion arrived there before Eorine. Indeed, Galion was disembarking from the vessels when, just as Theoden had done 200 years earlier, the Rohirrim were seen on the hillside. However, Galion now commander of the field, and he had read about the rout in the Battle of Pelennor Fields. And he also had horsemen. Using tactics known only to himself, he stopped the Rohirrim charge, and slaughtered the whole west wing. King Eorine was surrounded, and taken alive. Just as the battle seemed hopeless for the Rohirrim, the bulk of the Rohan foot soldiers came marching up, and full battle was joined. Meanwhile, Minas Tirith was still being assaulted, and the beleaguered defenders were being worn down by the towers. 

Eldarion withdrew to Cair Andros with his army. In Rhun, near the Sea of Rhun, the Vanyar army, mixed with some Arnorians and dark elves, faced the Easterling army in a standoff. Neither army seemed willing to engage first. This uneasy peace lasted for days. In the west of Gondor, the only thing stopping complete domination was Dol Amroth. Refugees from the fiefs kept pouring in, as the resistance while brave, had been futile. Dol Amroth had asked for assistance from Pinnath Gelin, but no reply had yet been received. And always there was the imminent invasion of the massive Haradrim army, which would certainly lay siege to Dol Amroth and ravage the whole south of Gondor.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 29, 2011)

Bard , I'm really raring with the whole story. I'll write more than the last time but I need time. I think in a couple of days I'll have finished.

Question: Shall we send more rainforcements to Eldarion?


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm loving it too. I don't think we need to give Eldarion more though. He's got all the elves and still quite a few troops. You can use discretion though.


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## Adanedhel (Jan 21, 2012)

As I have not come to some good ideas about the continuity of the story ( :*confused: ), I'd be glad to read some of your ideas people. Please, express yourself:*)!

P.S. Bard, I count on you.


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## Bard the Bowman (Jan 24, 2012)

*Well here we go. I don't like this segment as much, i was just trying to get something down. Hopefully the next one improves. *


On the plains of Rhun things were disintegrating for Ingwe. The Druedain, loathing open warfare on the plains, had deserted him. They however promised to guard the passes between Rohan and Minas Tirith. Small comfort at the moment. The Dark Elves too disliked the open plains, and only the thought of Valinor held them fast. It sickened Ingwe's heart as he had no guarantee the Valar would allow it. But he was mighty among the Eldar. The Forodrim, grumbled but remained. Meanwhile, the standoff had come to an end. 20,000 Nardorians, led by a contingent of sorcerers, had come up from the Morannon. Confusion was spread by the sorcerers, and many floundered. However, the Forodrim and the hobbits, more resistant to magic than any others, save certain elves, charged through and slaughtered many sorcerers. Hugo was slain in the charge. Just as Ingwe came charging up with the main body of elves, the Easterling army broke through the Arnorian line, Ingwe was taken unawares, and a halberd pierced his breastplate, through his side. He fell, grievously wounded. Full battle was joined, and with the Elven lying prostrate, things looked grim. 

Elsewhere things had gone worse. Dol Amroth, still receiving no word from Pinnath Gelin, had sent scouts to investigate. Pinnath Gelin was known for having great stores of weapons, and were among the best equipped soldiers in Gondor. Their involvement was crucial to the success of Gondor. The scouts however found that Pinnath Gelin's settlements were fortified, and none were admitted. Only one spoke with them: Radagast the Brown. He warned the scouts, if the armies of the west were to survive, they must remain defensive and wait for the Vanyar to win the day. The Corsairs of Umbar now had new fleets of ships, and although Galion had no interest in Anfalas, the Corsairs had ravaged the Langstrand, slaughtering the villagers. Had Radagast not so instructed Pinnath Gelin, it would have fallen too. But they held off the Corsairs, and killed many. The scouts returned to Dol Amroth with no help, and depressing news. 

Galion's brilliance on the battlefield was proven in the Second Battle of Pelennor Fields. While the Rohirrim horsemen were engaged, and his soldiers were battling with the Rohan footmen, he maneuvered a hidden reserve of cavalry in a pincer movement, breaking apart the ranks of Rohan, and scattering them all. The horns of Nardor were heard, and Eorine sounded the retreat. However, he would not join them. A well thrown spear brought him down, piercing his heart. Thus died the King of Rohan, and not the least noble. Few escaped from that great battle. Of the soldiers of Rohan, less than half escaped. They fled through the secret passes, and the Woses guarded their retreat. However, the City of Kings had now fallen. With the added reinforcements of Galion's remaining able-bodied 10,000, had overpowered the first wall. However, they could not win the second gate, and the situation looked bleak for Galion. He held up within the first ring, pondering his options. 

Cair Andros had been assaulted, but Eldarion was too powerful to be taken yet. He was taken aback at the news of the Pelennor. His son was residing in Minas Tirith, and the thought that he might be killed angered him. Not waiting for his full force to be assembled, he gathered 500 horsemen and rode for Minas Tirith in a rage, leaving his foot soldiers in the dust. By the time he reached Minas Tirith, he had regained some wisdom. As he gazed on the ruin of the city, a rider from the East rode towards him. It was a fair Vanyar, bringing the grave news of the battle. Eldarion was now faced with a dilemna. To leave his son, or let the elven king die. Upon hearing the news the king was mortally wounded, and not even elven healing could save him, he knew only one person could save him, but his whereabouts were unknown. However, Eldarion had taken the Orthanc stone from Isengard, and now used its power to contact Radagast, who was now in possession of the Morgul stone. Upon hearing the news of Ingwe, and seeing one last chance to return to Valinor, Radagast rode through the night to reach Rhun. 

Meanwhile, Eldarion's forces were running thin. Cair Andros only had the initial garrison now. Dol Amroth was under siege from the Haradrim. Pelargir was under control of the Nardorians. The fiefs were overrun. Rohan had retreated. The Battle of Rhun was still in contention. The only spark of hope came from the North. The dwarves of Erebor and sturdy Men of Dale had once again routed the enemy, and completely annihilated the Wainriders. However, dragons from the north had responded to summons from the Blue Wizards, and had attacked Dale. However, these were no First Age dragons, and after a great battle of fire and much ruin, the dwarves were victorious. Dale had suffered, and neither Dale nor Erebor could yet send aid. 

Finally the great Battle of Rhun, the greatest battle since the War of Wrath, had come to an end. The bravery of the hobbits had saved the day, but still did not win it. They had driven the sorcerers back, aided by their natural resistance to the cold magic. The fair Vanyar had contested the Nardorians, and being greater in number, had broken through the lines and slipped into Southern Mirkwood with their injured king. Indeed, led by a dark elf scout, they were heading for Rhosgobel, the old home of Radagast. But Ingwe was fading fast. The light of Valinor had faded, and soon his spirit would find its way to the halls of Mandos. The dark elves mostly perished. They, along with the remaining Arnorians, had borne the brunt of the assault from the Easterlings. The few dark elves and Dunedain that escaped crossed the Anduin on rafts along with the hobbits. They fled through Rohan. And so the forces of evil had the mastery, but complete victory had eluded them in the night forest. The Vanyar had disappeared, and many others besides had escaped. Meanwhile, Radagast was riding hard still. He had reached Rohan, and had encountered some refugees from both Minas Tirith and Rhun. He headed into the darkness of Mirkwood, searching desperately for Ingwe. 

Eldarion now had almost completely lost Gondor. He saw the blue pillar rise from Barad-dur, and he knew that Cair Andros could not repel this next assault. And so he left Minas Tirith, even as more Nardorians and rebels sailed up from Pelargir. His son would use the secret passes of the mountains known only to the kings. In the meantime, he made a tough decision. He abandoned Cair Andros, Pulling all his people out, he withdrew to Isengard, but with the palantir he instructed ships to sail from Mithlond to attempt a rescue at Dol Amroth, now completely surrounded and appearing doomed. When Eldarion learned of the death of Eorine he almost failed himself. In desperation he journeyed into Fangorn searching for the Ents. But now they were scarce, most being tree-ish; and the Huorns he dared not bother without any Ents around. The standings appeared bleak for the Reunited Kingdom. A force of 35,000 in Isengard, with more refugees arriving. Many fighters were also scattered throughout Rohan. Ingwe, fading fast, with his main bulk of 50,000 Vanyar, were now safe in the Rhosgobel area, with Radagast still searching feverishly. The Easterling army, now 40,000 traveled to the Morannon, preparing for the great assault that would conquer all the lands of Gondor and Rohan. The force assembled at the Morannon alone now numbered 80,000. Galion's force had swelled to 20,000, and the Haradrim had now been reinforced by the Corsairs, bringing their numbers up to 50,000. Outnumbered and weak in magic, defeat seemed certain for Eldarion's armies.


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## Eledhwen (Jan 29, 2012)

Whatever happens has to be in response to the wiles of Morgoth: "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined." 

So it is the dark threads in the story that will make the threads of light shine all the more brightly. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series of books (a punishingly long series!) also has a dark lord imprisoned (wonder where he got that idea?) and shows the baddies visiting a deep dark place that is a sort of interface where they can receive commands, instructions and favour. The bonds that hold him are weakening (don't know why, yet, but it's only book twelve) and he'll be out soon for another go at mankind.

So, what you need is a storyline that leads up to the prophecy's beginning. An early character not properly disposed of is a common way in to this. Ar-Pharazon would do at a pinch - languishing in "the Caves of the Forgotten" with a handy army; Shelob and Ungoliant were never properly killed off (and Ungoliant is good in underground tunnels if you're looking to free any baddies) but you'd still need some humans, and the orcs that would have gone into hiding after Sauron's demise, waiting for someone to embolden them. On the goodies side, you have the two blue Istari, Radagast the Brown and Tom Bombadil. All these have been a bit lazy, to date; and one could rouse themselves to be the Merlin character filled by Gandalf in LotR. Elrohir or Elladan could be your bit-better-than-average human. Prince Imrahil's line is little mentioned, and could be brought in closer to centre stage to give an otherness to the heroes. For the Hobbits, you' could use Sam's lineage; they'd be wealthy enough to drop everything and go, but dour and sensible like their forefather.


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## Bard the Bowman (Jan 29, 2012)

Yeah I don't think I'm going to go with that. Bye bye


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## iluvatarin (Jan 30, 2012)

Bard the Bowman said:


> I'm loving it too. I don't think we need to give Eldarion more though. He's got all the elves and still quite a few troops. You can use discretion though.


 Excellent stuff! always found the post-lotr-return of the king era to be slightly sad. Esp for Sam who is torn between his love for Rose+kids and the Shire and his love for Frodo and the Deathless Realms.


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## Bard the Bowman (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks iluvatarin. It's nice when someone just commends your ideas instead of telling you what to do, like Eledhwen.


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## Gandalf White (Jan 31, 2012)

Eledhwen said:


> So, what you need is a storyline that leads up to the prophecy's beginning. An early character not properly disposed of is a common way in to this. Ar-Pharazon would do at a pinch - languishing in "the Caves of the Forgotten" with a handy army; Shelob and Ungoliant were never properly killed off (and Ungoliant is good in underground tunnels if you're looking to free any baddies) but you'd still need some humans, and the orcs that would have gone into hiding after Sauron's demise, waiting for someone to embolden them. On the goodies side, you have the two blue Istari, Radagast the Brown and Tom Bombadil. All these have been a bit lazy, to date; and one could rouse themselves to be the Merlin character filled by Gandalf in LotR. Elrohir or Elladan could be your bit-better-than-average human. Prince Imrahil's line is little mentioned, and could be brought in closer to centre stage to give an otherness to the heroes. For the Hobbits, you' could use Sam's lineage; they'd be wealthy enough to drop everything and go, but dour and sensible like their forefather.



Now this I like. Especially the idea of Tom Bombadil taking a larger role.


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## Bard the Bowman (Feb 1, 2012)

Gandalf White said:


> Now this I like. Especially the idea of Tom Bombadil taking a larger role.



Feel free to open up another thread.


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## Prince of Cats (Feb 1, 2012)

Gandalf White said:


> Now this I like. Especially the idea of Tom Bombadil taking a larger role.


 
Yes! I think Elethwen had some great ideas - Ungoliant in the fourth age! I forgot about her; perhaps laying in wait like the watcher in the water. But Bombadil, now there's something  A merlin-type role was mentioned; what kind of king would be made under the council of Bombadil and his (perhaps) enlightened views on power (being master of but not owning the creatures of his forest, being untempted by the seductive power of the ring)?

But would he take such a role? Tom's apparent connection to the barrow mounds suggests he once associated with the local kingdom. I think that without his intervention his forest would be increasingly encroached-upon as men spread out - as they do. If Bombadil was in a mind to worry about it he might try to guide men as he can to protect the realm he stewards. An interesting idea about what could happen after the Lord of the Rings, indeed


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## Bard the Bowman (Feb 1, 2012)

Guys Ungoliant consumed herself. Shelob would be far more likely, after recovering from her wounds.


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## iluvatarin (Feb 1, 2012)

Bard the Bowman said:


> Thanks iluvatarin. It's nice when someone just commends your ideas instead of telling you what to do, like Eledhwen.


Having been on other forums I must say the back on forth on this forum-keeps it interesting. As a lover of tolkiens works I am always keen to gain new insights. This forum appears to be a treasure trove for this. I also enjoy your well thought out concepts and writings and of course Bard the Bowman, is the first human hero, if i recall correctly, that we meet in the hobbit-lotr cycle. 

I remember as a youngster, who stumbled upon the hobbit-had no earlier exposure to it, thought it was a book on gardening actually based on the very low key cover art. one very bored day (pre-internet era) i found a book my neighbor had gave me months earlier. Started reading it and my eyes were opened to a new and adventurous world of hobbits, wizards, goblins, elves, dwarves and beorn. I was so excited i used to read it to my siblings b4 bed. they still recall it fondly.

anyway here you as bard shoot out prose instead of arrows. maybe some people disagree at times but nothing beats a lively forum with the solid unique and interesting content i been reading here.


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## Gandalf White (Feb 4, 2012)

Prince of Cats said:


> But would he take such a role? Tom's apparent connection to the barrow mounds suggests he once associated with the local kingdom. I think that without his intervention his forest would be increasingly encroached-upon as men spread out - as they do. If Bombadil was in a mind to worry about it he might try to guide men as he can to protect the realm he stewards. An interesting idea about what could happen after the Lord of the Rings, indeed


 
It seems unlikely to me that he would take on such a role, and that's exactly why he is so interesting. He is a being of such immense power, and yet so complacent in LotR, that it is hard to imagine him being disturbed enough by external circumstances to take a leading role. Oh, but imagine if he did...


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## Bard the Bowman (Feb 7, 2012)

Just to give everyone a little background on what happened. After the Nardorians escaped to Middle-earth, deep in the south, they were close to perishing, and many already had died in the extreme heat with little in the way of food or water. But Maglor, wandering the shores of Middle-earth, found them, and guided them to a land of plenty. They took him as king, and his line was known as the House of Maglor. But he became mortal in that, and died.


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## Bucky (Feb 7, 2012)

And they had many long discussions...

About everything but politics and religion. :*D


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## Bard the Bowman (Feb 14, 2012)

Bucky, you're like the seed in a beautiful delicious "seedless" mandarin orange. You may have potential for greatness (i.e. like the seed has potential to become an orange tree), but at the moment you are a distinct, disturbing, and disruptive displeasure.


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## Prince of Cats (Feb 14, 2012)

It was a joke, Bard. Here at the TTF we have a rule of not discussing religion or politics (there is or was a different forum for that). So (I think) he was joking that the people on TTF are decedents of the Nardorians. Hey, maybe it could catch on :*D "honey, are you still on that computer?" "just a minute, dear; I'm discoursing with the Nardorians"


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## Bard the Bowman (Feb 14, 2012)

I understand that Prince of Cats, but let me ask you something. If someone who has made sarcastic insulting remarks to you and has been in continual conflict with you makes a "joke" like this, how do you think it will be perceived? As a friendly, harmless joke? I think not.


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