# Star Wars is LOTR! (merged)



## Glaurung

*Why Return of the Jedi=Return of the King*

I'm a Star Wars/LOTR freak. So sue me.....

The titles aren't the only reason they are similar.

A mission depending on a small group of spies to infiltrate enemy territory. 
Luke and friends entering Endor and Death Star=Frodo and Sam entering Mordor.

While a main attack force acts like a diversion.
Rebel fleet attacking Imperial fleet=Army of Gondor and Rohan attacking army of Mordor.

To destroy a "dark lord on his dark throne".
Emperor=Sauron.

The good guys aided by a group of nature dwelling people
Ewoks help the rebellion=Woses help the army of Rohan reach Gondor. 

The main hero tempted with corruption.
Luke tempted by emperor=Frodo tempted by ring. 

Something big blows up in the end.
The Death Star=Mount Doom. 

Was George Lucas influenced by Tolkien? I think so 'cause I don't believe in coincidences.


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## TheJospeh

*AND*

to make is even easier George Lucas is quoted as saying about "The Lord of the Rings, "[it] had a profound effect on the creation of Star Wars." Some paper, somewhere. Probably the Toronto Star. So a connection? I think so.

Sincerely,
The Joseph


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## Talierin

Ben Kenobi=Gandalf

Both died, only to turn up again.


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## ReadWryt

I'll tell you EXACTLY why it was "Return of the Jedi" because I was there. It started at the 1980 San Diego Comic Book Convention and we were down in one of the Film Rooms in the basement of the Hotel San Diego listening to the Lucas Film guys tell us all about an animated feature they had worked on called "Twice upon a time", and then they got ready to start the hype about the next installment of the Star Wars movies. They handed out little stickers with Yoda's picture drawn by Ralph McQuarrie and they had the title "Star Wars Episode Six: Revenge of the Jedi". They did the hypesentation and afterward the first question in the Q&A was some guy asking "Isn't revenge one of the paths of darkness that leads away from the Light side of the Force? Why would a Jedi take Revenge??

To this day I wish I had that sticker, it's gotta be worth a bundle!

Lucas himself was a big fan of Joseph Campbell and so a big fan of Myth. It's no coincidence that he became involved with the Indiana Jones stuff at the same time that Bill Moyers was interviewing Joseph Campbell at Skywalker Ranch for the PBS interview series "The power of Myth". I remember people making the Tolkien connection way back when the first Star Wars was released...it's more then coincidence..that's for sure!


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## Hirila

As to Return of the King / Return of the Jedi...

I think these titles (and the whole system of trilogies) are examples of how movies and all stories are made:

1. design a task for your heros and let the first part end a bit difficult but all in all rather positive

2. out of the first part there has to be another task to pursue and the bad guy has to "strike back", something bad has to happen
(Do you know Aristoteles (duno how he`s called in English that old Greek guy) and his form of theatre? second part is a turning point)

3. tha bad guy is finally defeated!

Now start: "Do-it-yourself-How-to-make-my-own-little-story-that-becomesahugesuccess" (and you will earn heaps of money with that, just look at all the moviey you see, its always the same!


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## Anira the Elf

also 

they are aided by royalty
fellowship is helped by Elrond and Galadriel= luke was helped by Leia


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## ssgrif

ok, but we all know Sauron was defeated in the Return of the King. But if you look into some of the details on The Emperor or Palpatine wasnt actually finished off "once and for all" in "the return of the Jedi", as his spirit went off and possessed another host. So its not quite that similar to Tolkiens ROTK.


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## Hirila

I thought I knew all the Star Wars stories: what host did the spirit of the Emperor possess? He was destroyed there and what was left were some other evil guys and a remembrance of his evilness at the spot in space over Endor where he died.
And the spirit of Sauron was also defeated. Once and for all. Or at least so far as not being able to return into ME again. Perhaps he went back to Valinor where he came from.


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## Anira the Elf

ssgrif, that sound like a harry potter book??????


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## ssgrif

Dont even think about talking to me about HP Anira!

If you want the whole story, check out:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/eu.html


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## Anira the Elf

"why"
* looks slightly confused


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## Anira the Elf

*reads attachment

"oh, i get it now


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## Beleg Strongbow

> _Originally posted by Anira the Elf _
> **reads attachment
> 
> "oh, i get it now *






I think that cirdan is that little dude in the swamp. Ancient and his been around fo ever and knows a lot.


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## Anira the Elf

um, thats yoda, dear!!!!!!! get a clue beleg ( hehehehe)


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## Beleg Strongbow

> _Originally posted by Anira the Elf _
> *um, thats yoda, dear!!!!!!! get a clue beleg ( hehehehe) *




I'm sorry i'm not perfect Anira hehehe       . I have whatched that about 1 or 2 times and about 5 years ago.


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## Anira the Elf

i just watched all of them about 3 months ago. they were ok.


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## Beleg Strongbow

I hardly ever watch them as you might have geusted!!!


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## Anira the Elf

yup, i guessed all right.


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## Beleg Strongbow

> _Originally posted by Anira the Elf _
> *yup, i guessed all right. *




Yeah it mightn't have been easy 2 guested not geussed right?


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## Anira the Elf

wha???

whatever u said, ok?!


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## Beleg Strongbow

> _Originally posted by Anira the Elf _
> *wha???
> 
> whatever u said, ok?! *




I gust mady a speling mistacke thats or.


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## Gnashar_the_orc

*George Lucas...hmm...*

I can't remember where but I have recently read a discussion of which the general conclusion is that George Lucas has stolen a lot of material and elements from the 'Lord of the Rings'. I tend to agree.


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## ssgrif

I wouldn't say that George Lucus "stole" elements from the LOTR, but that he was influenced by the works of Tolkien.

Tolkien work has influenced alot of people, and for the better I say...


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## Urylia

Who would Han Solo represent????


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## baraka

You know, i read an essay about a year ago comparing Star Wars Episode I with the Fellowship of the Ring. It was written by a guy who is the head of the cult of set.


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## legoman

Well Star Wars has been quoted as having the ultimate story line (only an opinion given) you know, it has all the character types to make a good story. Noble good guy, Evil Empire, cute (not really my opinion but Han [and luke] seemed to think so) Girl to go after, hansome(??? again definately not my opinion) guy, and the good guy under dogs come out on top.

Also Lord Of The Rings - as a trilogy - is made from the same sort of idea because it is the ultimate story line, there are hundreds of books, films etc like this.

If I was writing a book now, I'd use the same sort of idea myself.

oh and both the above mentioned stories don't half rock.


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## Khamul

I really dont see that much of a parallel between the two. Using the fact that Sauron=Emperor is not a good enough reason. To have a good fantasy you need to have a "Dark Lord" or something of the sort. 

Opinions?


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## YayGollum

*Star Wars is exactly like LOTR!*

You mean you didn't know? Luke picked up by Obi-Wan = Frodo being picked up by Gandalf, Frodo-special because he has the Ring given to him by his uncle = Luke-special because he has the Force given to him by his mommy and daddy, Obi-Wan dies = Gandalf dies, both Luke and Frodo needed the help of some weird little old dude (Yoda and Gollum), and there are a lot more similarities that I can't think of. oh well. You all need to come to this super cool place. Okay? So what if I'm just advertising?


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## ReadWryt

I recall, back in 1977, reading article after article on this very subject. I have also read comparisons of Star Wars to "The hidden fortress" and "The Seven Samurai"by Akira Kurasawa, "The Wizard of Oz" by Baum and "Dune" by Herbert...


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## YayGollum

Don't know about those others, but Wizard of Oz and Dune? That's crazy! Ummm...did you even look at the site? See if you can guess who I am over there! Not too hard, is it?


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## Beorn

Actually, I think that George Lucas said once that he based a lot of his things on Tolkien's style...


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## YayGollum

Which shows just how smart Lucas is! Right? Also, Beorn, since you even said anything here, I'm assuming you looked at my site. If you're not going to join, at least tell me what's wrong with it!


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## Beorn

Yes, I did go...Roguelion...

Anyway, I'm not really into Star Wars. Yes, I like it, but I'm not into it...'sides, I goto three BBSes already....


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## YayGollum

Whatever BBS stands for.  Roguelion is here too. Same name. I'm Exar Pun over there. Does noone else care? Maybe I should think up some more SW/LOTR comparisons.


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## Beorn

Bulletin Board System *mutters something about people living in the future *


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## Desiderata

*Star Wars / LOTR comparisons*

Puting plot similarites aside shows huge differences in the themes and thesis of the two stories. Both stories are a struggle of good guys and bad guys. However, story themes differ in the aquisition of the power to overcome the perceived evils.


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## Rangerdave

*I don't understand*

What are you trying to get at? Yes the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are semi-mythological tales of Good vs Evil. But almost all fiction and most of histoty is essentially Good vs Evil. In fiction it is apparent, and in history it depends on what side your on.

I guess this comparisons needs a few specifics. Other than the baseline fantasy genre, I really don't see anything to compare.

Just a friendly question
RD


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## Talierin

*waves to the fellow Coloradoan!* 

Well, George Lucas has said that Tolkien greatly influenced him when he wrote Star Wars, so perhaps there is similarities. *shrugs*


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## Desiderata

*Star Wars / LOTR comparisons...*

Ranger Dave,

Can you tell me where in history or literature the enemy is portrayed as within us rather than "Something Wicked This Way Comes?"


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## Rangerdave

*Huh?*

 
Well, I guess Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land comes to mind. Or Walt Kelly's _Pogo_ . 


> I have seen the enemy and he is us



But maybe I misunderstood the question (it happens more often that I care to admit)

RD


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## shadowfax_g

*How about this?*

Luke=Frodo
Obi-Wan=Gandalf
Solo=Boromir
Leia=Éowyn
Palpatine=Sauron
Darth Vader=Saruman
Sith=Nazgûl
Yoda=Gollum
R2-D2=Gimli
C-3PO=Legolas

Just roughly. I don't mind objections.


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## Adrastea

It is more like Aragorn is Solo.


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## shadowfax_g

Well, I just could not decide about Han Solo. Certainly either Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir or Éomer, I put Boromir because he seemed most similar in the personality. Just my opinion.


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## Gandalfthebeige

*Star Wars is LOTR!*

Okay, I have a theory that Star Wars is a total rip-off of LOTR. Don't believe me? Consider the following:

1: Wizard dies protecting weaker, more important beings, comes back all metaphysical to help them(Hmm, Obi-Wan the White...).

2: Boy lives peacefully, boy finds Ring/Ben Kenobi, boy goes on epic quest to destroy Ring/Empire.

3: Han/ Aragorn, Gimli/Chewbacca

4: Merry & Pippin/ C-3P0 & R2-D2

5: Once mighty wielder of supernatural forces manipulated by evil, amasses huge army to wipe out all life played by Christopher Lee/ Ditto

6: The small, wrinkly, blithering idiot connection: Yoda/ Gollum


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## *Lady Arwen*

I'm just here forthe dounts.
I don't think its alike. Not at all.
Han/ Aragorn, Gimli/Chewbacca- What about Legolas, SW doesn't have elves either.

Yoda/ Gollum- Gollum is evil, Yoda not. 
I don't think its anything alike, just the whole evil empire thing.


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## Gandalfthebeige

*How dare you oppose me (J/K)*

Okay, I realize Yoda's not evil, that was called "humor." I suppose Legolas & Gimli could be interchangeable Chewie substitutes, but Gimli's hairier. But yoy have to get the Christopher Lee one, Darth Saruman. L8R,
your Beige, magical friend



> [Rowlf!-Chewbacca]xxx


[/QUOTE]


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## HLGStrider

I've actually considered it before... Han and Leia... Aragorn and Arwen, same difference.

I bet Lucas read LOTR and was influenced (who wouldn't be influenced)... there are some paralells, but that could be put asside. They are basic to good stories... so no, not a rip off, but yes somewhat similar.


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## Aragorns_girl00

*?*

maybe, maybe not. these possibilities and reasons do make it look like that. but consider all the other things like how SW is in space, LOTR in Middle Earth. When you look at all of the unsimiliar things (which is most of them) you can tell that it was just coincidence.


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## HLGStrider

Either that or George Lucas is a raving maniac obsessed with taking over Middle Earth...


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## Aragorns_girl00

nope, it's not true.


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## Gandalfthebeige

Of course George Lucas is a raving maniac. Beware the flannel menace! Oh, by the way, I've found a SW paraleel for Sauron, the root of all evil in this and every other universe: Jar-Jar Binks.


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## Precious

> _Originally posted by Gandalfthebeige _
> *Of course George Lucas is a raving maniac. Beware the flannel menace! Oh, by the way, I've found a SW paraleel for Sauron, the root of all evil in this and every other universe: Jar-Jar Binks. *


 LOL!!! I know I'm risking "the flame" but SW cannot TOUCH!!! FOTR! Han= Aragorn??Gollum = Jar Jar??....No, a thousand times no!


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## MrFrodo

Hey on the star wars connection Frodo has a glowing sword could that have giving old lucas the idea.....?????


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## Valdarmyr

I agree, there are similarities. I mainly wanted to say that when I was a teenager (when the first Star Wars came out), I thought that series was the biggest thing around for years. But now, LOTR "towers" above SW in my mind. SW seems to me to be more about "futuristic" technology, while LOTR deals more with the interactions of people (and ME folk), their strengths and their frailties, heart-felt issues. Even the lure to go "to the dark side" is given more time in LOTR. It's just so much more mythic to me. But I'll still keep my SW videos!


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## Valdarmyr

*Use the Force, Frodo*

When ROTK comes out, I would give 50 bucks if we would hear Aragorn go, "Yahoo!" and then say to Frodo, "You're all clear, kid. Now let's blow this thing and go home." But I don't think it's in the book.


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## Gandalfthebeige

LOL! No, you're right, LOTR is better, but SW is my second favorite movie/book of all time so I thought it was neat.


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## FoolOfATook

This thread really makes me hope that someone who 1)has read Joseph Campell's _Hero Of A Thousand Faces_ and 2) isn't as lazy as I'm feeling right now, posts. A post like that would go a long way in explaining the phenomenon being discussed here.


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## Heathertoes

*Re: Use the Force, Frodo*



> _Originally posted by Valdarmyr _
> *When ROTK comes out, I would give 50 bucks if we would hear Aragorn go, "Yahoo!" and then say to Frodo, "You're all clear, kid. Now let's blow this thing and go home." But I don't think it's in the book.  *


Either would be more appropriate than, "Let's hunt some orc".


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## ???

THEY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON!!!


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## FoolOfATook

They are both epic tales of great quests and heroes set in the far off past. They do have things in common.


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## Michel Delving

*Tolkien is orbiting the Death Star*

I think the only comparable body of work to LotR is Star Wars. I've never come across anything so complete and engrossing as Tolkiens's book. Your Harry Potters etc are all well good as entertainment (albeit in HP's case - a very imaginative one) they are still derivative of other sources.

Although LotR is influenced by Tolkien's knowledge of Mythology he has created his own Legend, a complete world. George Lucas seems to have made up the Star Wars Universe as he went along. The credibility of it has also suffered at the the hands of commercial greed. Although now, as the sixth SW film completes the series, you _do_ get a sense of a whole History and Future to that Universe.

Tolkien, on the other hand seems to have created the physical space of Middle-Earth in his Maps, the Languages, Races and History of Middle Earth before he launched Frodo on his Quest. And that, my friends, is the most incredible creative thing I've experienced. And it will never change, as no more will be written; but that 1000 and odd pages will be forever with us in the long rain of time.


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## DurinLongBeard

That's a well thought out post and all but michel, honestly, what are you asking. Are you just making this point for random or do you wish of us to say if we think it is comparable to Star Wars. With this question in mind I would say that I agree that the LotR is incredible, but, it is not in anyway like star wars. Star wars is all space jet planes and guns and light-swords while LotR has no technology really what so ever. I also think that the plots are extremely different and I do not truly understand where you got that they were related from.
I do not want to sound rude but next time think of a question to go along with the essay.


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## Rangerdave

Lets look at the similarities, shall we...
Both are epic fantasys
both enforce the belief that some sort of sympathetic magic can overcome physical laws
both have a pair of highly annoying but somewhat useful companions to the hero R2D2 & C3PO/Merry & Pippin

And the major difference...

JRR Tolkien created and entire Univers complete with the most minute detail, language and history
George Lucas painted with broad strokes the rough outline of a universe, and licensed out the details to other writers.

RD


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## Michel Delving

It was a thought I put into words DurinLongBeard. A comment to receive ideas back in a forum stylee . Perhaps I should have put _ discuss_ at the bottom . 

My question(s) being: Can anyone think of any other work of Art that has created so complete an experience and Universe as LotR? 

The only one I can think of is Star Wars. Not in a direct comparison (one is Wizards, Dwarfs, Goblins, winged flying creatures and the other is Robots, Aliens, Rebels and hyper-speed space ships - I know that !!) I mean in the act of creating a complete _world_ that seems so real. Do you agree?

Rangerdave is on the right track. More please from you like minded folks.


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## Sephiroth

Star Wars is in the End my favourite saga, i put it over LOTR, i agree with you and i have said this many people before, Star Wars and LOTR are untouchable(some might put star trek up there) when it comes to depth and story


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## Aiwendil2

I think that Star Wars is on par with Tolkien. But I find it difficult to pick one over the other, being that they are different media. Tolkien's universe is of course better thought out and more consistently realistic, but that's like saying that the Oxord English Dictionary is bigger than Encyclopedia Britannica.

I can think of one other universe that approaches this level: that in Asimov's _Foundation/Robot_ series. It doesn't quite have the depth of Tolkien's world, but it is very well depicted and quite engaging.


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## Maeglin

Well C.S. Lewis's "Chronicles of Narnia" is all in its own world, with talking animals and sorcery and what not. Though it does not have the depth of Tolkien's work, it is still great, and I think that perhaps, had he desired to, Lewis could certainly have developed the world of Narnia much more and put it on the same level as Tolkien; for the 2 were good friends, and Lewis could even have gotten advice from his colleague on how to develop his world. However, this was not the case, for he desired to focus more on his christian writings rather than the children's book which is "The Chronicles."


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## DurinLongBeard

I have been thinking about it Michel and the only other story that comes to my mind that is like LotR would have to be Brian Jacques "Redwall Series". He wrote like 15 books about warrior mice(something like men) and ferrets(orcs) and rats(more orcs), wolves and foxes(uruk hai and smarter larger fell-beings). He also created evil kings and sorcerors in the shape of "Marl Foxes" and other beings but they were not quite as powerful as Sauron. He created fortresses, abbeys, wanderers, heroes, and all other key elements contained in LotR. As the LotR the abbeys and castles fall sometimes too.
Their are large-scale battles in "The Long Patrol" and almost all of the other Redwall books and they seem amazingly similiar to LotR to me. He wrote about war-hardy badgers that dwell in mountains(dwarves) and sea-loving otters that who use bows and such (elves). 
The series is a little less in depth as LotR but is the same besides the fact that LotR is with men and the Redwall Series is with mice and the likes.  

By the way Michel, Sorry about before I was being moody!


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## Sephiroth

they have lil things in common , but...No to all your comparisons

the only one i can find is Count Dooku = Saruman(both played by Christopher Lee)

but perhaps Count Dooku turns out to be a good guy in Episode 3 so don't quote me on that


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## Eriol

I must admit that I thought, when I saw the title of this thread, that it was referring to the moon of Endor, the home of the Ewoks  ... 

What a great rip-off/homage, uh? (For those who do not know, Endor is Middle-Earth in Elvish)


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## Michel Delving

Star Trek! Narnia! Giant warrior mice! 

No where near Tolkien!  

I did enjoy the Narnia series when I was younger but it's more on the level of an extended Hobbit than LotR.

Never heard of it DurinLongBeard. Sounds like a Watership Down rip off to me.

Any one read any Michael Moorcock? 

Eriol: Don't mention the Ewoks, you know how touchy the Star Wars mob get about them.


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## Sephiroth

What's wrong with the Ewoks ??


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## FoolOfATook

> Though it does not have the depth of Tolkien's work, it is still great, and I think that perhaps, had he desired to, Lewis could certainly have developed the world of Narnia much more and put it on the same level as Tolkien; for the 2 were good friends, and Lewis could even have gotten advice from his colleague on how to develop his world. However, this was not the case, for he desired to focus more on his christian writings rather than the children's book which is "The Chronicles."



Considering Tolkien's professed dislike of the Narnia books, I doubt that he would have been particularily interested in helping Lewis with them. As much as I enjoy the Narnia books (I just recently re-read them) I don't think that Lewis could have transformed Narnia into a world of the same scope of Middle-earth, if for no other reason than I can't imagine Lewis enjoying such a labour. There are inconsistencies in the Narnia books as they are, and maintaining Tolkien's level of internal consistency in his published works (check out the positions of the moon in LOTR- they are always perfect...). Also, I'd argue that with the Narnia books, Lewis created Christian writing as much as an enchanting fairy tale.


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## Saucy

only differnce is star wars was never really a book it was a movie first!


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## Wonko The Sane

If you look hard enough you can find parallels in SW or LotR and just about everything...
So it's not hard to parallel the two to eachother.


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## Sador

Didn't Mr Lucas actually purchase the rights for LOTR at one time?
I think I remember reading that he wanted to make a LOTR movie, but decided to sub-create his own little galaxy instead.
Lucas read Campbell's "Hero with a thousand faces" and distilled some standard mythic archetypes for his movies. Tolkien in creating his own mythology not surprisingly also uses the same mythic archetypes. 
The wise man- Gandalf/ Obi Wan
The naive hero- Frodo/Luke
Faithful Companions- You know who.
Its just that the SW story isn't as interesting as LOTR.


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## Wonko The Sane

Newsflash: Though Tolkien is great not EVERY author tries to make his works like Tolkien's!


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## Firawyn

*Legolas*



> _Originally posted by *Lady Arwen* _
> *I'm just here forthe dounts.
> I don't think its alike. Not at all.
> Han/ Aragorn, Gimli/Chewbacca- What about Legolas, SW doesn't have elves either.
> 
> Yoda/ Gollum- Gollum is evil, Yoda not.
> I don't think its anything alike, just the whole evil empire thing. *



I thing Legolas compares to Leia. Brave, Graceful, and Hot!!


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## Firawyn

*In common*

I say they do have a lot in common. Here's a new compare:Bilbo/Anakin-Frodo/Luke-Orcs/Hutts-
the power of the Ring/the power of the Force


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## Melko Belcha

I read in a interview that LOTR inspired Lucas to write a epic story, but the similaritis between the two are kind of superfical.

Stephen King even said that LOTR inspired him to write The Stand. Not to copy the story but to have a book with a ton of realistic characters.

I think Tolkien inspired alot of people in many different ways, some direct, some more distant.


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## faila

I dont see the ring the force connection. THe ring is alwasy evil, the force can be good or bad. The force was not created, the ring was......


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## Beorn

Was this thread supposed to be on the end of this thread?


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## YayGollum

Probably. Anyways, I just gots to say ---> Do what? Bilbo = Anakin? Maybe ---> Smeagol = Anakin! Smeagol and Anakin both get corrupted and end up saving the day by tossing the evil into a pit type thing.

Also, ---> Orcs = Hutts? Craziness! Orcs are usually made out to be not very smart, while Hutts are one of the smartest type of aliens in the Star Wars universe! Orcs are usually made out to be followers, while Hutts are usually in charge of all kinds of different people! Yikes! I like Hutts! Well, I like Orcs, too, but that's in a different way. It looks like you're insulting Hutts!


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## spirit

have you seen the pic of gollum as yoda lookalike thing?


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## Firawyn

> _Originally posted by faila _
> *I dont see the ring the force connection. THe ring is alwasy evil, the force can be good or bad. The force was not created, the ring was...... *



Point taken. When I said it I was thinking that the are both a mystic power.


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## Firawyn

*pic*



> _Originally posted by spirit _
> *have you seen the pic of gollum as anekin? *



No I have not but I would like to if you tell me where to find it.


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## spirit

dunno where it is. i will try to find it id you want#
edit: i am gonna pm it to u


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## Firawyn

*sure*



> _Originally posted by spirit _
> *dunno where it is. i will try to find it id you want#
> edit: i am gonna pm it to u *



whatever


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## Wonko The Sane

Exactly.

But the thing is I can compare Tolkien to say...oh...ANYTHING.
Because the themes of "Wise leader", "Naive Hero", "Loyal bestfriend"...they ALL appear in literature ALL OVER THE PLACE.

In some ways Chaucer has Tolkien-like characters. And Chaucer came WAAAAY first!!!


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## Ol'gaffer

In a way if LOTR should somehow seem similar to SW it could be that both follow the heroes path story telling style. What I mean is that both have the similar theme conceived by a writer in the early 20th century. 

The theme goes:

1. innocent youth/ Tatoiine, Luke
2. Meeting the wizard/Ben Kenobi
3. Magical Flight/Millenium Falcon
4. Meeting the evil/Death Star part 1
5. Defeat/ Bens death
6. Retaliation/Attack on the Death Star
7. Triumph over evil/Canyon run, destroying the death star.

it goes on but I can't remember how. I'll try and look it up from somewhere.


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## Eledhwen

People with a greater capacity for study than myself have concluded that there are only a limited number of plots in existence (Aristotle spotted this first, I think). Some have it as low as 36 basic plots! There is a book called (something like) Hero with 1000 faces, which discusses the whole issue. You can probably match up a number of other plots to LotR too, but it doesn't mean they copied.


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## FoolOfATook

> There is a book called (something like) Hero with 1000 faces



In case anyone is interested in reading this marvelous work, the title is indeed _The Hero With a Thousand Faces_, and it was written by Joseph Campbell. George Lucas has cited it many times as one of the works he studied while creating _Star Wars_.


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## Wonko The Sane

Eledhwen is right.

There are only so many ways to tell a story. And similiarities do not mean that copy-cats.


But we all know that Lucas wasn't wholly original.

Let's just put that out there.


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## syongstar

*LOTR/star wars*

Lord of the rings books are part of my soul, they made me who I am, so I am influenced and understand if others are.


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## FREEDOM!

I like both, but almost all stories have a Hero and teacher and friends.


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## Wonko The Sane

This thread really needs to be closed. I think all that could possibly be said...has been said.


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## maquino

*_Star Wars_: _LOTR_ in Sci-Fi Drag*

[The original] _Star Wars_:
_Lord of the Rings_ in Sci-Fi Drag
- by Michael A. Aquino, 1977

In _The Lord of the Rings_ a small but vital object (the
One Ring) capable of destroying the Great Enemy
(Sauron) accidentally falls into the hands of a restless
youngster (Frodo) anxious to travel beyond his isolated,
uneventful country home (Bag End, the Shire). From a
chance meeting with a seemingly- innocuous old man
living under a modest assumed name (Gandalf) instead
of his revealing real one (Olorin the Maia, one of the
Istari), the young hero learns about the origins of a
growing evil empire (Sauron and Mordor) while its
forces are attacking his home (the Black Riders in the
Shire) searching for the vital object (the Ring). The
hero evades them, however, and travels to the nearest
town (Bree), where at the local pub ("The Prancing Pony")
he meets a gruff but friendly adventurer (Strider). The
forces of the evil empire (the Black Riders) come looking
for them in the pub, but miss them. However they are
spied upon and betrayed by one of the locals, and narrowly
escape into the wilderness. At a council (in Elrond's house)
they learn more from the good wizard about the vital object.
They try to take it directly to a place where its evil can be
thwarted (over the Redhorn Pass), but are deflected into a dark
maze (Moria), wherein the good wizard is killed by a
monstrous being (the Balrog) while enabling them to escape.
They flee to the greatest stronghold of resistance against the
evil empire (Minas Tirith), whereupon they are attacked
by an overwhelming enemy force led by a black-helmed
sorcerer (the army of Mordor/the King Ringwraith). But the
young hero evades the agents of the enemy searching for
him, and even a last-minute attack by the enemy's evil
sorcerers (the Ringwraiths), and manages to use the
vital object to destroy the enemy threat by casting [the Ring]
into the fiery heart of the threat (Mount Doom). The threat
(Mordor) dissolves, and the evil leader (Sauron) is cast off
into space. The young hero and his friends return in triumph
to the stronghold (Minas Tirith), where they are honored with
an awards ceremony by the monarch (King Elessar). Oh, and
the good wizard turned out not to be dead after all, but secretly
helped turn the tide by his use of secret magic (the Red Ring,
Narya).

In _Star Wars_ a small but vital object (a computer program)
capable of destroying the Great Enemy (the Death Star)
accidentally falls into the hands of a restless youngster (Luke
Skywalker) anxious to travel beyond his isolated, uneventful
country home (his farm, Tatooine). From a chance meeting
with a seemingly-innocuous old man living under a modest
assumed name (Ben Kenobi) instead of his revealing real one
(General Obi-wan Kenobi, a Jedi Knight), the young hero
learns about the origins of a growing evil empire (the Galactic
Empire) while its forces are attacking his home (the
Stormtroopers at his farm) searching for the vital object (the
program). The hero evades them, however, and travels to the
nearest town (Mos Eiseley), where at the local pub (the
Cantina) he meets a gruff but friendly adventurer (Han
Solo). The forces of the evil empire (the Stormtroopers)
come looking for them in the pub, but miss them.
However they are spied upon and betrayed by one of the
locals, and narrowly escape into the wilderness. At a council
(in the Millennium Falcon) they learn more from the good
wizard about the vital object. They try to take it directly to
a place where its evil can be thwarted (to Alderaan), but
are deflected into a dark maze (the Death Star), wherein
the good wizard is killed by a monstrous being (Darth
Vader) while enabling them to escape. They flee to the
greatest stronghold of resistance against the evil empire
(the Rebel Headquarters), whereupon they are attacked by
an overwhelming enemy force led by a black-helmed
sorcerer (the Death Star/Darth Vader). But the young
hero evades the agents of the enemy searching for him, and
even a last-minute attack by the enemy's evil sorcerer
(Darth Vader), and manages to use the vital object to destroy
the enemy threat by casting [a proton torpedo] into the
fiery heart of the threat (the Death Star). The threat (the
Death Star) is obliterated, and the evil leader (Darth
Vader) is cast off into space. The young hero and his
friends return in triumph to the stronghold (the Rebel
Base), where they are honored with an awards ceremony
by the monarch (Princess Leia). Oh, and the good wizard
turned out not to be dead after all, but secretly helped
turn the tide by his use of secret magic (the Force).


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## ShootingStar

*Re: Star Wars is LOTR!*

I really don't think that Star wars is a copy off of LOTR. The similarities are mostly just because of the formatting of a good adventure story. For example: The Gandalf/ Obi-Wan Kenobi connection- There is usually a mentor in adventure stories. Said mentor guides the uncertain hero in his quest (whatever it is). Soon the mentor must somehow disappear to allow the hero to spread his wings. Kenobi's ghost and Gandalf the White arent that similar to me. Obi-Wan never actually went away. His spirit was always present. He also claimed that he was more powerful as a spirit, but did not show it. Gandalf did go away for a while, and his transformation seemed to be unintentional (by him, anyways). He never stated that his power was greater, but he showed it many times. Both had a critical role after their transformations: Obi-Wan sent Luke to Yoda, and Gandalf did just about everything (except take the ring to Mordor, of course!)

So there you go. Take it or leave it.


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