# Eärendil's fate - a reward or a ban?



## Lhunithiliel (Jan 16, 2004)

> Of surpassing beauty was Eärendil, for a light was in his face as the light of heaven, and he had the beauty and the wisdom of the Eldar and the strength and hardihood of the Men of old; and the Sea spoke ever in his ear and heart, even as with Tuor his father.
> 
> Eärendil, first of living Men, landed on the immortal shores...
> 
> ...



Above quotes remind us of what an outstanding person Eärendil was and it is known how extremely important his deeds were for the freedom of Arda from the Prime Evil - Melkor.

Yet, he broke the order, set by Eru and implemented by the Valar :



> *"Mandos spoke concerning his fate; and he said: 'Shall mortal Man step living upon the undying lands, and yet live?"*



And even if Ulmo and Manwe himself stood for him, his fate was finally decided :



> " But when all was spoken, Manwë gave judgement, and he said: 'In this matter the power of doom is given to me. The peril that he ventured for love of the Two Kindreds shall not fall upon Eärendil, nor shall it fall upon Elwing his wife, who entered into peril for love of him; *but they shall not walk again ever among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands.* And this is my decree concerning them: to Eärendil and to Elwing, and to their sons, shall be given leave each to choose freely to which kindred their fates shall be joined, and under which kindred they shall be judged."



Now... On one hand, they were the first to be able to choose between being mortals or immortals, and it might seem like they received this privilledge as a reward for what they did.

Yet we also read :



> "And Elwing chose to be judged among the Firstborn Children of Ilúvatar, because of Lúthien; and for her sake Eärendil chose alike, though his heart was rather with the kindred of Men and the people of his father..."



So, they had the right to choose and so they did, for the mercy of the Gods. But even so, the couple was still not granted a peaceful life ! Instead: 

- Eärendil is sent up in the skies to wander among the stars and even in the Void;
- Gil-Estel, the Star of High Hope he became, yet never was he allowed to return to ME nor to teh Blessed Realm;
- Elwing did not go with him for she could not endure the cold of the void her husband traveled to, and they only seldom had the chance of being together 

. . . And one wonders....

What did in fact Eärendil get from the Gods - a reward or a ban?


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## Manveru (Jan 16, 2004)

Gods' (the Valar's in this case) "gifts" are usually misinterpreted... for they're often hard to understand or... hard to explain...
Anyway... one thing is certain: a headache.

*awaiting others' opinions*


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## Lhunithiliel (Jan 16, 2004)

Well met, creature of light!  
Don't wraiths like causing "headaches"!? 

Anyway, some say the Valar compromised. This was not the first case, however. One generation back (Beren+Luthien; Idril + Tuor) they had to compromise too!
Yet, in all the cases, though judgments being different, there is one common element - *interaction with the rest of the world is strictly forbidden!*.

Why would that be necessary? It seems so much as a _ban_ to me.


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## Manveru (Jan 17, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Well met, creature of light!
> Don't wraiths like causing "headaches"!?


hmm... you tell me, _wraith_...


Lhunithiliel said:


> Why would that be necessary? It seems so much as a ban to me.


Maybe some small thing called "jealousy" was at work here?
After all, their (couples' mentioned above) fates were "unique" in a way...
Maybe too many questions (that usually cause "headaches") would be asked? Who knows?
Also... all the couples mentioned here had some "missions" to accomplish ("chosen ones"; even before they were born, this quests were "laid" on them), very meaningful ones... for both races. And when they finally did so, they needed some "rest" from everybody (need some privacy, you know--though in Earendil's case it wasn't exactly so... a "solitude" rather, though it was Elwing's "fault"... I don't know... this thought doesn't lead to anywhere, I guess).
So...
jealousy?
inquiry??
or that need to be "left alone" at last???
(geesh, each post "causes" even more question to answer to... maybe we should close this thread? just kidding...)


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## Lhunithiliel (Jan 20, 2004)

Hmmm... Does nobody else have an opinion on this topic?  

If we concider Earendil's quest as a sacrifice for the well-being of all the races, then to me his fate seems .... sad...Though of course, the reward was not a little one. Yet.. What do you think? Did he do what he did expecting to be rewarded by the Valar in the both ways?


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## Manveru (Jan 20, 2004)

I guess you ask me, wraith, right? *turning his head from left to right... gazing patiently...* Gee, I guess...

Earendil? A materialist? Naaaaayyy... or was he?

Sorry, but I'm a little sleepy... be right back in the morning... maybe with sth more worthy of reading than this post...


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## Lhunithiliel (Apr 23, 2004)

An intriguing question.  Care to discuss?


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## grendel (Apr 23, 2004)

If I read this correctly, Earendil chose the same fate as his wife, though his heart was with mortal Men, presumably so they could be together... and then they end up not being together. Not much of a reward, huh?

But I have another question that occured to me... someone stated earlier that the bottom line was that "interaction with the rest of the world is strictly forbidden." But didn't Earendil join the War of Wrath? Didn't he go to Middle-Earth and slay Ancalagon? What's up with that?


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## Lhunithiliel (Apr 23, 2004)

That would hardly be called "interaction", right? 

That was a moment of high need ... the flying "angel " of Evil against the flying "angel" of Good.
Duty!
Yet, even in that, Earendil was there to help Men and their future.
Duty!

Where's the reward? 
Being a "star" somewhere high up in the skies, a star that everybody marvelled and followed?
Acknowledgment... gratefullness.. Yes! All that!

But where's the reward?


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 23, 2004)

> " But when all was spoken, Manwë gave judgement, and he said: 'In this matter the power of doom is given to me. The peril that he ventured for love of the Two Kindreds shall not fall upon Eärendil, nor shall it fall upon Elwing his wife, who entered into peril for love of him; but they shall not walk again ever among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands. And this is my decree concerning them: to Eärendil and to Elwing, and to their sons, shall be given leave each to choose freely to which kindred their fates shall be joined, and under which kindred they shall be judged."


Isn't it strange how Manwë _first _forbids them to return to mortal lands, and _then _gives them a choice of belongin either to Men or to Elves. Had they chosen to be mortal, would they have remained in Aman as mortals? And would they have died there as mortals? I just find this a bit ambigous.

As for the topic, it doesn't seem to me that Eärendil and Elwing were at all dissatisfied with their stay in Aman:



> _Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath_
> Now fair and marvellous was that vessel made, and it was filled with a wavering flame, pure and bright; and Eärendil the Mariner sat at the helm, glistening with dust of elven-gems, and the Silmaril was bound upon his brow. Far he journeyed in that ship, even into the starless voids; but most often was he seen at morning or at evening, glimmering in sunrise or sunset, as he came back to Valinor from voyages beyond the confines of the world.
> 
> On those journeys Elwing did not go, for she might not endure the cold and the pathless voids, and she loved rather the earth and the sweet winds that blow on sea and hill. Therefore there was built for her a white tower northward upon the borders of the Sundering Seas; and thither at times all the sea-birds of the earth repaired. And it is said that Elwing learned the tongues of birds, who herself had once worn their shape; and they taught her the craft of flight, and her wings were of white and silver-grey. And at times, when Eärendil returning drew near again to Arda, she would fly to meet him, even as she had flown long ago, when she was rescued from the sea. Then the far-sighted among the Elves that dwelt in the Lonely Isle would see her like a white bird, shining, rose-stained in the sunset, as she soared in joy to greet the coming of Vingilot to haven.


And another thing: I have not before paid much attention to the coloured quote above, but now it strikes me as amazing and fascinating that Elwing obtained a pair of wings and learned to fly (!!!). Icarus, anyone? 
This sounds so extraordinary to me, since she's afterall, 'only' an Elf. One might expect one of the Ainur to take shape as a bird, but an Elf flying about? Wow! 

I think Manwë's doom was certainly more of a blessing than a curse for the two of them. Both Eärendil and Elwing end up having the most unbelievable destinies, and they're elevated to being some sort of angelic, magical creatures. Not too bad at all.


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## Elfarmari (Apr 23, 2004)

ithrynluin said:


> Isn't it strange how Manwë _first _forbids them to return to mortal lands, and _then _gives them a choice of belongin either to Men or to Elves. Had they chosen to be mortal, would they have remained in Aman as mortals? And would they have died there as mortals? I just find this a bit ambigous.
> . . .
> I think Manwë's doom was certainly more of a blessing than a curse for the two of them. Both Eärendil and Elwing end up having the most unbelievable destinies, and they're elevated to being some sort of angelic, magical creatures. Not too bad at all.



I agree. I have also wondered what would have happened had they chosen to be mortal, given what Tolkien wrote about what would happen to mortals in Aman (I can't remember exactly where I read that, but basically I think the conflict between the fëa's desire to leave the world and the hroa's will to survive would be unbearable). 

It seems to me that Eärendil and Elwing were the only ones 'forbidden' from interacting with those of ME. We don't know what happened to Tuor and Idril, so I can't say anything of them, but I think Beren and Luthien chose not to interact with Men, and they did interact with Elves.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 24, 2004)

> I can't remember exactly where I read that, but basically I think the conflict between the fëa's desire to leave the world and the hroa's will to survive would be unbearable).



'Myths Transformed', HoME 10  



> We don't know what happened to Tuor and Idril, so I can't say anything of them





> Túor weds Idril the daughter of Turgon King of Gondolin; and 'it is supposed' (not stated) that he as an unique exception receives the Elvish limited 'immortality': an exception either way....Immortality and Mortality being the special gifts of God to the Eruhini (in whose conception and creation the Valar had no part at all) it must be assumed that no alteration of their fundamental kind could be effected by the Valar even in one case: the cases of Lúthien (and Túor) and the position of their descendants was a direct act of God. The entering into Men of the Elven-strain is indeed represented as part of a Divine Plan for the ennoblement of the Human Race, from the beginning destined to replace the Elves


 'Letter 153; Letters of Tolkien'


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## Lhunithiliel (Apr 25, 2004)

ithrynluin said:


> Isn't it strange how Manwë _first _forbids them to return to mortal lands, and _then _gives them a choice of belongin either to Men or to Elves. Had they chosen to be mortal, would they have remained in Aman as mortals? And would they have died there as mortals? I just find this a bit ambigous.


Yes... Interesting thought... But, well, there was another couple who chose to be mortals and they got a "verdict" not much different than that of E&E - sort of : "_Live! But you're forbiden to communicate with the rest of the world!_" I'm sepaking of Beren and Luthien.

So, is it _mercy_ or _punishment_?



> And another thing: I have not before paid much attention to the coloured quote above, but now it strikes me as amazing and fascinating that Elwing obtained a pair of wings and learned to fly (!!!). Icarus, anyone?
> This sounds so extraordinary to me, since she's afterall, 'only' an Elf. One might expect one of the Ainur to take shape as a bird, but an Elf flying about? Wow!


I like that tale, too! Pure mythology! Beautiful and free fantasy!



> I think Manwë's doom was certainly more of a blessing than a curse for the two of them. Both Eärendil and Elwing end up having the most unbelievable destinies, and they're elevated to being some sort of angelic, magical creatures. Not too bad at all.


Yes? In waht way?


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## Inderjit S (Apr 25, 2004)

Well Eärendil and Elwing were immortalised in more ways then one. Eärendil’s star became the star of hope for the good races in Middle Earth, he guided his son's people to Númenór....he was able to bring a lot of joy to the world.

Elwing, described to be an Elf and not taste the bitterness of mortality. She got what she wanted and was revered by the Elves of Aman.

Of course immortality has it's drawbacks, even more then mortality, maybe. But they could not have their cake and eat it, or they could not have everything, and they knew it. At least they could live in paradise and bring joy and beauty to the world.


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## Elfarmari (Apr 25, 2004)

Lhunithiliel said:


> Yes... Interesting thought... But, well, there was another couple who chose to be mortals and they got a "verdict" not much different than that of E&E - sort of : "_Live! But you're forbiden to communicate with the rest of the world!_" I'm sepaking of Beren and Luthien.


I'm confused; I don't recall this being said anywhere. I could be wrong, but I thought the only condition on their return was that they were mortal, and they chose to remain separate from the rest of the world.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 25, 2004)

> I could be wrong, but I thought the only condition on their return was that they were mortal, and they chose to remain separate from the rest of the world



As you say, it was a matter of personal choice. There were no conditions imposed. They didn't even remain separate. They inter-acted with the Nandor and even the Ents. 

Beren, of course never spoke to any mortal man again. Apart from his son, of course....


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