# The Battle of the Valar!



## DurinsBane (Aug 29, 2002)

Heres Your Chance, to sound off on which of the Valar is the greatest!!


Go Ahead and enjoy!


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## Confusticated (Aug 30, 2002)

While Melkor had the status of Vala, I would say that he was the Most powerful. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by greatest though.
According to the book Manwe was the greatest, so I will go ahead and agree with that.


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## Ravenna (Aug 30, 2002)

I believe that Manwe and Melkor were originally equal.



> Manwe and Melkor were brethren in the thought of Illuvatar. The mightiest of theose Ainur that came into the World was in his beginning Melkor; but Manwe is dearest to Illuvatar and understands most clearly His purposes.



Although the Sil also states that Melkor;


> Great might was given him by Illuvatar and he was coeval with Manwe. In the powers and knowledge of all the other Valar he had a part, but he turned them to evil purposes, and squandered his strength in violence and tyranny.



So if Melkor indeed 'squandered his strength', then presumably Manwe became superior in innate power by the time that Morgoth was finally defeated.


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## Dwimmerlaik (Aug 30, 2002)

I'm not sure how to respond to this one.
Do you mean greatest,as in word and deed?
Or,do you mean greatest in relationship to ancestry(such as Aule),the Valar that gave light(Varda),the Valar that gave enlightenment(Orome)?
All of the Valar had especial reason for love and honour amongst those that they had marked for love,enlightenment and the particular love of which each Valar was lord of.
In the end,I would have to say that Manwe held the post of-First Amongst Equals.
Melkor,through his initial lust for power over all things,his fall from grace,his rehabilitation and finally his banishment-surely negates him as one of the greatest.
Indeed the power of his potential and his malice(these "values" could be seen as mutually exclusive and or complementary)are the seeds of his own destruction,and serve chiefly to differentiate his values(and those corrupted to him)and those of the Valar.


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## Gil-Galad (Aug 31, 2002)

Melkor is the most powerful Vala (as it's written in the Sil),but not the greates one.The greatest of all is Manwe.


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## Grond (Sep 1, 2002)

Ulmo was by far the greatest of the Vala. He not only cared about the Eldar but showed a keen interest in Man and the other Quendi that the Valar all but abandoned when they wouldn't make the journey to Valinor. Of all the Vala, only Ulmo kept the faith with *all* the Peoples of Middle-earth.


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## Ceorl (Sep 1, 2002)

In the beginning Melkor was the most powerful of the Vala, but later on he:



> Dispersed his strength in lies and deceit(something like that anyway)



At which stage it would be assumed that Manwe became most powerful. 

However as Dwimmerlaik mentioned, all the Valar had their own particular claim to fame. Personally I quite like Aule, as he took the most part in crafting the world. Also he was not at all greedy or jealous of the works of others, and hoarded not any wealth.


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## Ancalagon (Sep 1, 2002)

As much as I respect and admire Ulmo over all the others. I think Manwe must be considered greatest of the Valar for the very fact he knew more closely the mind of Iluvatar than any other. In other words, since all are offshoots from the mind of Iluvatar, and Manwe is most closely associated to this mind, then he is at an advantage over all others.

However, there is a weakness in Manwe that became apparent after the release of Melkor. He did not comprehend evil and could not understand the depths of Melkors hatred and designs. Had he had the foresight to know Melkor, or the inclination to listen to counsel from Ulmo Middle-Earth would have been a dramatically different place for the First and Seconborn of Eru.


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 7, 2002)

I think Anc. is right about Manwe and Ulmo.I like most Ulmo because he helps peole and elves,because he loves them and takes care about them,but Manwe is the greatest.Who is the "king" of the Valar,who stays closest to Eru's thoughts?Manwe.I don't like him much but that's the truth.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 9, 2002)

I agree that the greatest are Ulmo and Manwë (but also Yavanna,Varda and Aulë) - it's a tie between them.
As for my favourite: Lorien and Nienna.


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## Lord Aragorn (Sep 11, 2002)

I would say Aule is my favorite. Mostly because without him, there would be no dwarves. And what would Middle Earth be without any dwarves may I ask? Not as good. But Manwe is probably the "greatest" or most powerful I guess.


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *I agree that the greatest are Ulmo and Manwë (but also Yavanna,Varda and Aulë) - it's a tie between them.
> As for my favourite: Lorien and Nienna. *


I see your point! If you have a chance you will have a wonderful sleep there or you will spend your time in the laziest way you can live.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *
> I see your point! If you have a chance you will have a wonderful sleep there or you will spend your time in the laziest way you can live. *



What more could I ask for!


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## Elenaelin (Sep 14, 2002)

heck- it's a living (yawns, and idly goes back to strumming harp under tree) all things considered, Elbereth (the Vala) is way up there A-being Manwe's "other half", so to speak, and B- she fashioned the stars as a light for the coming elves- if that had not been done, when the Trees were destroyed, no light would of been present, and the darkness would of covered all - note- lets not forget Mandos- (he's got all the answers...but when you find out...it's to late...)


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## Elbereth (Sep 14, 2002)

I believe that the Vala with the greatest influence over Middle earth would have to be Melkor.

Greatest Vala in power and Knowledge was Manwe.

Greatest in compasion for those of Middle Earth was Ulmo.

And the greatest Vala overall in my opinion is Varda.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 14, 2002)

Welcome to The Tolkien Forum, *trys typing the name,fails 8 times,succeeds the 9th* *Elenaelin* !


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *
> 
> What more could I ask for! *


You may ask for some deeds and to become part of the greatest battles in ME,like me !Not to sleep the whole time of the world.You may get fat,because of too much calories taken from eating and sleeping


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *
> You may ask for some deeds and to become part of the greatest battles in ME,like me !Not to sleep the whole time of the world.You may get fat,because of too much calories taken from eating and sleeping *



AHEM, aside from my resting,sleeping and eating in Lorien(the one in Valinor) I would of course be helping Lorien and Estë in tending those elves that are feeling nostalgic about Middle Earth(like Celeborn) AND provide entertainment for the Valar! Now is that something or what!?


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *
> 
> AHEM, aside from my resting,sleeping and eating in Lorien(the one in Valinor) I would of course be helping Lorien and Estë in tending those elves that are feeling nostalgic about Middle Earth(like Celeborn) AND provide entertainment for the Valar! Now is that something or what!? *


That's the laziest way of living!At the same time I have to fight with Sauron and his creations while you're providing entetainment for the Bosses !


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *
> That's the laziest way of living!At the same time I have to fight with Sauron and his creations while you're providing entetainment for the Bosses !   *



Well,someone has to do it! And BTW they can be pretty bossy!


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## Gil-Galad (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *
> 
> Well,someone has to do it! And BTW they can be pretty bossy! *


I can't believe on my eyes!!!For third time we have hte same opinion,yeah they can be pretty bossy and that's why I really hate them,except Ulmo of course.


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