# Tower Hills



## Snaga (Dec 30, 2001)

Just started reading Lord of the Rings for the eleventy-oneth time and came across something that I'd never considered before... in the prologue!

There were 3 elven towers on the Tower Hills it says. Anyone know who built them, how they came to be deserted etc.?


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## pgt (Dec 31, 2001)

'The three ancient Elf-towers held the Elendil Stone, the last of the palantíri of the North.'

- from glyphweb.com

From that I presume they were deserted as part of those structures deserted when the N. Kingdom fell and had indeed been used by them.

Just me rambling...
Possibility A) They were indeed built by the elves and sub-leased by the Numenoreans.
Possibility B) They were built by the Numenoreans and named the "Elf" towers in some honor or other...


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## Walter (Dec 31, 2001)

I think the passage in the prologue You mention is referring to the "Tower Hills" ("Emyn Beraid") also called the three "White Towers", Elostirion being the highest one, where actually one of the 7 Palantiri had been kept.

The other ones were at Amon Sûl (Weathertop), Annúminas (Sunset Tower),	Minas Ithil (later called: Minas Morgul), Minas Anor (later: Minas Tirith), Orthanc and Osgiliath...

- NOT from glyphweb.com


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## stratosphere (Dec 31, 2001)

walter is bang on


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## pgt (Dec 31, 2001)

The THREE Elven towers and the THREE white towers on the SAME hills would certainly correlate.

But why were they called "Elven towers"? Also I'm curious as to your source on the naming of one as Elostirion of the 3 white towers? Not challenging, just curious. Was it from a passage about the Palantiri?

Thanks


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## Walter (Dec 31, 2001)

Here You go 

After the downfall of Númenor the remaining "Elf-Friends" Elendil and his two sons Isildur and Anárion established their realms Arnor and Gondor in Middle-Earth.

Elendil's chief city was Annúminas where he kept one of his 3 stones, one other in Amon Sûl (Weathertop) and the third one in the tower of Elostirion, the tallest of the three "Elven-towers" of Emyn Beraid. These 3 towers are said to have been built by Gil-galad - the last high-king of the Noldor in Middle-Earth - for his friend Elendil, hence the name "Elven-towers"...

My main source for this is the appropriate part of the Silmarillion: "Of the Rings of Power..."

----
Edited 3 times coz I can't spell worth sh...sh...sunshine...


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## Snaga (Dec 31, 2001)

Thanks Walter. I thought Gil-Galad would come into this one, since its his neighbourhood!


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## pgt (Dec 31, 2001)

Thanks for the followup Walter.


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## Walter (Jan 1, 2002)

You're welcome


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## ReadWryt (Jan 1, 2002)

*Dances in his chair, swinging his arms over his keyboard with each phrase of the chant* Go Walter, Go Walter, yer burnin, yer burnin!

I love when someone beats me to the punch, I actually sat here and did all the cross referencing before seeing Walter's excelent posts...*Kicks stuff* Demmit, *I* wanted to look smart


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## Grond (Jan 1, 2002)

Grond, as usual, ***hanging head*** arrives late and must applaud excellent posts and replies by all members of the thread.

Go guys, go guys, go guys.


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## Snaga (Jan 1, 2002)

They thinks its all over... but its not yet

But this gets interesting then because if you read what Galdor from the Grey Havens says at the Council of Elrond:



> Only the waning might of Gondor stands now between him and a marching in power along the coasts and into the North; and if he comes assailing the White Towers and the Havens, hereafter the Elves may have no escape from the lengthening shadows of Middle Earth.



From this is suggests that the White Towers are still actively used by the elves, and so at some point after the fall of Arthedain I suppose, must have been taken back from the Dunedain? Can anyone back that up?


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## Walter (Jan 1, 2002)

After the victory of the Last Alliance, Isildur intended to take up his father's (Elendil's) realm in Arnor but on his way he got waylayed by Orcs and during an attempt to escape them swimming through the river - while being invisible with The One Ring on his finger - but alas the ring slipped off his finger and Isildur got killed by the orcs - as well as his three elder sons Elendur, Aratan and Ciryon. His wife and his youngest son Valandil had remained at Imladris, so Valandil had to take up the kingdom in the North.

What happened in Eriador during the time in between Isildur's death and the Council of Elrond is covered in the Appendices of TLotR ("The North-kingdom and the Dúnedain") hence I won't spoil the joy of reading this for Yourself... 

But by the time of the Council of Elrond only a very few of the Dúnedain were left in Eriador, called - as You know - the Rangers of the North. And they had become wandering people, whereas Cirdan the Shipwright and the remnant of the people of Gil-galad where still dwelling at the Grey Havens and near the shore, so the Tower Hills sure were the perfect place to keep a watchful eye upon the countryside.

----
Hehehe, thanks for the applause, whaddya wanna drink, RW & Grond?


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## Snaga (Jan 1, 2002)

Walter you really will have to do better than that my friend. Where's the citation that tells you that they wanted to 'watch over the countryside?' What I want is some that confirms that the elves are actually making use of the Towers. If you can show me where in the Appendices that will save me reading them... again!

By being this lax, you may indeed be buying drinks for Grond and/or Read-Wryt who I can't believe will let this opportunity slip!


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## Walter (Jan 2, 2002)

Dear VoK,

way back when I used to go to university we had one professor who impressed me the most because he taught us one of the most important things about knowledge: To know something means to know how (or where) to find it...

So here You go:

1) The quote You're looking for is probably in the LotR...

2) if it ain't there it's probably in the Sil...

3) if it ain't there it's probably in the UT...

4) if it ain't there it's probably in the HoMe...

5) if it ain't there You might be lucky and find a hint about it in the "Letters" (and no, I don't mean the "Letters from Father Christmas") or in Tolkiens Biography...

6) if You haven't found it by then You might have to derive - at Your own risk...


Good Luck 

PS: You may even start to derive at an earlier point during Your research (which is what I did in the case of my statement, for You don't have to be a strategic expert to realize that 1) if You have to protect a harbour and 2) want to be wary of an assault and 3) You have a couple of hills nearby with (watch-)towers already built upon them You might probably would want to combine those three facts and use those towers for Your own purposes rather than wait until an enemy comes and makes use of them against You), just try to make sure You don't start deriving too early and thereby neglecting anything important that is actually written somewhere...


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## Cian (Jan 2, 2002)

"The only stone left in the North was the one in the Tower on Emyn Beraid that looks towards the Gulf of Lune. That was guarded by the Elves, and though we never knew it, it remained there, until Círdan put it aboard Elrond's ship when he left." RotK

"For the Elves of the High Kindred had not yet forsaken Middle-earth, and they still dwelt within reach of the Shire. Three Elf-towers of immemorial age were still to be seen beyond the western marches." FotR


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## Cian (Jan 2, 2002)

LOL, forgot "commentary" ... oh well sometimes I talk too much anyway


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## pgt (Jan 2, 2002)

Good find Cian!

I was looking into another matter altogether and stumbled across the following w/ regard to the fleet of Gondor that went North to help out.

"But when Earnur came to the Gray Havens there was joy and great wonder among both Elves and MEN". RotK appendices on Gondor.

Which suggests men (of Arnor?) lived as far west as that during the time of the troubles w/ the Witchking. It also is interesting that men apparently never bothered to inhabit lands between as those had been granted to the Perrianath prevoiusly. Yet men apparently occupied locales east and west of what became the shire. Now if this is all the case, why didn't men continue living so far west after the Witchking was routed.

This thread has crystalized a few things in my mind as I didn't realize the significance of those towers or that men lived so far west during those times. Very interesting!


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## Cian (Jan 3, 2002)

Thanks!

Another "short-post" from me! but explaining it only makes it longer so why am I still writing ... love those Appendices. Oh there I go again ...


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## Snaga (Jan 3, 2002)

In the prologue of LotR it says of the Shire, when the Hobbits settled there:



> The land was rich and kindly, and though it had been long deserted when they entered it, it had before been well-tilled, and there the king had once had many farms, cornfields, vineyards and woods.



So once the Shire had been inhabited by men, but with the decline of the North Kingdom it became uninhabited, until it was granted to Marcho and Blanco in 1601 TA.


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## pgt (Jan 3, 2002)

Excellent quote reference. It's interesting that men lived not only East but perhaps West of the Shire at the time it was inhabited by the Hobbits.

I think they should reimburse Aragorn for that Palantir! Hey wait a minute, does this mean that Arwen can borrow her husband's Palantir and make long distance calls to dad?


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## Walter (Jan 4, 2002)

As soon as the Númenóreans started to explore the seas and coasts that were allowed to them they also sailed about Middle-earth(~S.A: 600). And when they set foot on those west-coasts they found them inhabited by men. Those had grown weak and fearful during the years under the shadow and were - at first - tought many things by the Númenóreans. And lateron the Númenoreans started to found settlements and establish dominions on Middle-Earth (~S.A:1800).


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## Eonwe (Jan 5, 2002)

hi guys!

Anybody remember a reference to the Palantir being put in the tower so that Elendil could look back west and perhaps see Tol-Eressa?

And the peak of Meneltarma was still above the sea


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## Grond (Jan 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Eonwe _
> *hi guys!
> 
> Anybody remember a reference to the Palantir being put in the tower so that Elendil could look back west and perhaps see Tol-Eressa?
> ...


Welcome Eonwe. You speak truth and it is from the Silmarillion, _Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age_, *"...It is said that the towers of Emyn Beraid were not built indeed by the Exiles of Numenor, but were raised by Gil-galad for Elendil, his friend; and the Seeing Stone of Emyn Beraid was set in Elostirion, the tallest of the towers. Thither Elendil would repair, and thence he would gaze out over the sundering seas, when the yearning of exile was upon him; and it is believed that thus he would at whiles see far away even the Tower of Avallone upon Eressea, where the Master-stone still abode, and yet abides."*


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## Halasían (Dec 26, 2002)

Surely the 'sons of Arvedui' retreated to the Grey Havens, and being elf-friends there may have been some who lingered there with the elves as they did at Rivendell. Surely the womenfolk and the young did while the Rangers rode about.

Good answeres here!


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