# Superman Would Love Hobbitses



## Gloranthan (Dec 6, 2022)

I am a ginormous Superman fan, he's my favorite superhero of all time. My favorite version is the Bronze Age version, especially as written by Elliot Maggin, where he was a quasi-divine being who was a shining example of what everyone could become (one day) if they stopped being petty and ignorant. My headcanon version of Superman is about 6'6", nearly 300lbs (think Alex Ross Superman, he's a thicc boi), has a 500 IQ and can bench press universes without sweating. There's no such thing as a character that's too powerful, just a writer who's too weak!

Any other Clark fanboys here?


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Dec 7, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> Any other Clark fanboys here?



Superman is by far my favorite DC character, and really the main reason I remain interested in that universe. I am far more well-versed in Marvel, and the X-Men in particular (although my interest is fading due to the overload of MCU works which are rapidly declining in quality; but that's a whole big other topic). My love for Superman is a bit of an oddity since on the Marvel side I prefer less godlike heroes who are gritty hand-to-hand combatants that bleed more easily, such as Captain America, Cyclops, and Daredevil.

I suppose it's because what attracts me to Superman, even more than his Kryptonian powers, is his golden heart. Pessimists/realists might find his perfect morals and "good boy" image annoying, but I agree with you that he serves to be an example of what humanity can become if they choose goodness. Besides, let's face it, if Clark were anything but perfectly noble and kind and humble and self-sacrificing, the world would be in serious trouble. Thank goodness he landed in the right cornfield. His origin story is basically a study of the importance of good parenting.

Comics weren't really appreciated by my academically-focused, old fashioned parents when I was a kid, so much of my early Superman exposure was from the tv show Lois and Clark with Dean Cain. Don't remember much from it, but it was a good G-rated intro to the character, albeit super cheesy. Then when I was a teenager, there was Smallville with Tom Welling. Greatly enjoyed that version of the origins of Clark, but then it plummeted after 4 seasons or so. Shockingly enough, I never watched the Christopher Reeves films. For some reason, I struggle with enjoying fantasy genre movies made before I was born (1985). Please don't judge; I'm aware it's blasphemous.

I don't think I read any actual comics until I was an adult, except for here and there from issues one of my cousins (also a Superman geek) owned. It's the same case with all superheroes I love--I've pretty much had to cobble together my knowledge of them using different media sources (and a LOT of Google, when the internet took off) because I never had steady access to comics. And I've found that unless you start early with comics, it's very difficult to get into them without dropping a ton of time and/or money in one go, or without close guidance from an expert.

So, thank God for the return of Superman to the big screen! I cannot be happier with Henry Cavill as Clark. He is utter perfection in the role; if I had to quibble over something, I wish he were just taller, but Henry delivers so well with his physique and face and demeanor that I'll forgive him for not being born a giant.

I can write thousands of words about my appreciation for Henry Cavill, but this is probably not the place to embarrass myself with my fangirling. Let's just say Marvel makes a fuss over their "Chrises--Evans, Hemsworth, Pratt", but Henry is worth more than all 3 of them combined, even if you throw Pine in there.

Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed Man of Steel and am furious they are wasting away Henry's prime years by taking too long with the sequel. Superman is pretty much the only reason why I am interested in the DCEU.

My favorite Superman artist is my favorite comic artist, period. The amazing Jim Lee. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE his takes on pretty much every single hero he draws. His is _the_ animated Superman in my head the same way Henry is my ideal live action model.

That's the "short" version of my history with Superman. I would love to learn more from experts and geek out over Clark with the limited knowledge I possess!


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## CheriptheRipper (Dec 7, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Besides, let's face it, if Clark were anything but perfectly noble and kind and humble and self-sacrificing, the world would be in serious trouble. Thank goodness he landed in the right cornfield. His origin story is basically a study of the importance of good parenting.


Also why Injustice hits as hard as it does, and these alternative takes on evil superman lately have been so great to indulge in (homelander, omni man, also the james gunn movie)


> I can write thousands of words about my appreciation for Henry Cavill, but this is probably not the place to embarrass myself with my fangirling.


Nah nah go ahead please.

--
Me personally I'm a big fan of whoever did those awfully proportioned supermans where he had this amazingly big chest.
Bit like the above captain america.

Edit: confused my man with captain america on both accounts lol. Third pic is what I was talking about.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 7, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Superman is by far my favorite DC character, and really the main reason I remain interested in that universe. I am far more well-versed in Marvel,


I'm a fan of Marvel mostly for its villains -Apocalypse, Doctor Doom, Juggernaut - all favorites of mine. I love Colossus. I've read just about every appearance of Doom in comics, excepting the recent Battlefield events. I like Hal Jordan GL, old Batman comics and others, but my favorite comics are mostly from the 70s & 80s. Predates my time, but I think they're the best written.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I suppose it's because what attracts me to Superman, even more than his Kryptonian powers, is his golden heart. Pessimists/realists might find his perfect morals and "good boy" image annoying,


Philosophically speaking, in some kind of nihilist and I still love him. I don't believe in absolute good or anything, but he's just a really nice guy 😂 you can see Superman as a kind of Nietszchean character, who revaluates the common notions of power. He's so strong he can say, "killing your enemies is for the weak. I don't need to dominate anyone!"


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Comics weren't really appreciated by my academically-focused, old fashioned parents when I was a kid, so much of my early Superman exposure was from the tv show Lois and Clark with Dean Cain.


I grew up watching that. Still my favorite Superman show, though the 50s one is great, too.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Then when I was a teenager, there was Smallville with Tom Welling. Greatly enjoyed that version of the origins of Clark, but then it plummeted after 4 seasons or so.


Great show for Clark but it got really ridiculous. Season 8 was alright. I've seen it all about three times.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Shockingly enough, I never watched the Christopher Reeves films.


I like his depiction in all the films but I think Henry looks more like Superman.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I don't think I read any actual comics until I was an adult, except for here and there from issues one of my cousins (also a Superman geek) owned. It's the same case with all superheroes I love--I've pretty much had to cobble together my knowledge of them using different media sources (and a LOT of Google, when the internet took off) because I never had steady access to comics. And I've found that unless you start early with comics, it's very difficult to get into them without dropping a ton of time and/or money in one go, or without close guidance from an expert.


I can recommend some runs, one shots and out of continuity stories. The cartoons area also generally well done. _All-Star Superman,_ _Superman Earth One_ and _Superman Up In the Sky_. _Crisis on Infinite Earths_ is better than any other Crisis.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> So, thank God for the return of Superman to the big screen! I cannot be happier with Henry Cavill as Clark. He is utter perfection in the role; if I had to quibble over something, I wish he were just taller,


My version of Superman takes a lot from the early appearance he had, which was a much larger man. He's around 6'3-4" now, he used to be more like 6'6". I wish Henry were taller and burlier, but it's hard to find a pretty actor who's built like Conan (the one from the Howard stories, much bigger than Arnold).


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> I can write thousands of words about my appreciation for Henry Cavill, but this is probably not the place to embarrass myself with my fangirling. Let's just say Marvel makes a fuss over their "Chrises--Evans, Hemsworth, Pratt", but Henry is worth more than all 3 of them combined, even if you throw Pine in there.


I have a drawing of Henry (as Superman) done by long time Superman artist and writer Jerry Ordway (a print, not the original). I like black hair a lot.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed Man of Steel and am furious they are wasting away Henry's prime years by taking too long with the sequel. Superman is pretty much the only reason why I am interested in the DCEU.


DC has brain damage, lol. The execs have been out of their minds for decades.


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> My favorite Superman artist is my favorite comic artist, period. The amazing Jim Lee.


I'm a fan of Jim, he gives Clark some thick triceps and a very chiseled face. Though he also gives everyone a chiseled face 😂


Sons of the Woodland King said:


> That's the "short" version of my history with Superman. I would love to learn more from experts and geek out over Clark with the limited knowledge I possess!


As I said in the other thread, whether im talking philosophy, history, sword fighting, physics, I'll work Clark in somehow.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 7, 2022)

Some Pictures, now that I'm on my PC.



https://imgur.com/a/cbdi7Xn




https://imgur.com/a/yryazdd




https://imgur.com/a/nTWN3th

That last is Curt Swan. Look'it that beefcake 😆


https://imgur.com/a/4uX6R9d

Superman's been eatin' his Wheaties. 💪


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## Gloranthan (Dec 7, 2022)

And, of course, Bad Superman - Ultraman!


https://imgur.com/a/rBWV5m9




https://imgur.com/a/f1jbIQL




https://imgur.com/a/n2GpoUx

Although inconsistent, Ultraman basically is Superman. He's just as powerful, and he never loses in his Universe. His ridiculous physique (Revenge of Captain Dorito) is my avatar, because I'm no Superman, but I'd like his powers 🦸‍♂️


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Dec 7, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> I'm a fan of Marvel mostly for its villains -Apocalypse, Doctor Doom, Juggernaut - all favorites of mine. I love Colossus.


You like TANKS! I have a soft spot for Colossus as well--he definitely gives me Superman vibes with his gentle demeanor contrasting with his brute strength. Sadly, he has never been given proper attention in the films, but I guess the X-Men realm is just too crowded. 



Gloranthan said:


> Great show for Clark but it got really ridiculous. Season 8 was alright. I've seen it all about three times.


I can't believe you made it to Season 8! For some reason I stopped watching soon after Lois showed up. It has been a looong time for me. Maybe I should try to rewatch the early seasons. 



Gloranthan said:


> I can recommend some runs, one shots and out of continuity stories. The cartoons area also generally well done. _All-Star Superman,_ _Superman Earth One_ and _Superman Up In the Sky_. _Crisis on Infinite Earths_ is better than any other Crisis.


I would love to hear any ideas you might have on how to start my sons on Superman, once they are able to read comics. Right now my boys are ages 3 and 1.5, and there aren't really any options for kiddie content from DC. Disney+ has those Marvel cartoon shorts, so Marvel is winning their age group. I only succeeded in getting my 3 year old excited about Superman by letting him watch a few clips from Man of Steel (the first flight scene), and a couple of quick battle scene clips from Justice League. That worked enough that he asked to be Superman for Halloween two years in a row! (Okay, so I chose FOR him that first year when he was just 2 and didn't know any better.) But the Cavill movies are just way too violent for him, and I'm trying to find the next way to further his Superman education or at least prepare him for the comics. Are there any G-rated storylines? Is there such a thing? 



Gloranthan said:


> My version of Superman takes a lot from the early appearance he had, which was a much larger man. He's around 6'3-4" now, he used to be more like 6'6". I wish Henry were taller and burlier, but it's hard to find a pretty actor who's built like Conan (the one from the Howard stories, much bigger than Arnold).


I guess this is where our opinions differ because as a woman (and I think most fellow women would agree), I don't really like TOO much muscle like bodybuilders have. Henry already kind of went over the line for me with his buffness, but again, I can forgive that because that _face _is a work of art. 😍 (I told you I would gush if you let me.)

It's also kind of funny now that I think about it, and maybe you have a canon answer for this... but why DOES an alien son of Krypton have the form of a handsome Earthling? Maybe it's just overthinking the matter, but it's odd how that planet just happens to be home to what we on Earth would consider (physically) jacked-up supermodels. 

Is Kal-El supposed to be superior even among his own race?



Gloranthan said:


> I have a drawing of Henry (as Superman) done by long time Superman artist and writer Jerry Ordway (a print, not the original). I like black hair a lot.


I would like to see this please!


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## Gloranthan (Dec 7, 2022)

> but why DOES an alien son of Krypton have the form of a handsome Earthling? Maybe it's just overthinking the matter, but it's odd how that planet just happens to be home to what we on Earth would consider (physically) jacked-up supermodels.


Depends on the writer, but a gestalt answer taken from my ridiculously long exposure to the Amazing Stranger:

DC humanoids are the deliberate creation of the manipulation of life-forms by extra-planar beings/gods. These humanoids are not common, but the DC Universe is _infinite_ in size. Krypton used to be several galaxies away, so we can grant sheer statistical randomness producing (eventually) duplicate humans.
Krypton is a hyper-harsh world where only the stongerererist survive. Earth Darwinianism is like an obstacle course on Krypton. There are animals that can read your mind and volcanoes that shoot molten gold. Krypton is a terrible place, and that makes everything on it...weird. Kryptonians are also a much older species than humans - millions of years older. Their civilization itself was hundreds of thousands of years old. They had a lot of time to improve themselves past us.
The Guardians of Oa used Krypton as a eugenics experiment to create the ultimate Lantern. Once they ended up with Clark they were like, "Whoah, we overdid it, you don't need this ring, bro."
Kryptonians were selectively bred for intelligence and health, and genetically manipulated.
Jor-El did selective manipulation on himself and his son, which made them superior to other Kryptonians and able to leave the planet Krypton, as well. Jor-El is the _smartest Kryptonian who ever lived_, and Kryptonians are pretty smart folks to begin with. Clark is his son, and intelligence is at least 50% hereditary. Some comics downplay this, but traditionally Superman has a brain that does not quit.
Superman grew up around yellow sunlight, so not only has he absorbed more, he's grown more efficiently and effectively than someone who is only later exposed to it.
So, yes, all Kryptonians are naturally bodybuilders who look like models. Kenneth Rocafort made this explicit in the New 52 art, anything 'unwanted' was long ago removed from the genepool by manipulation of the genome and selective breeding.

This stuff is sometimes downplayed/ignored, but it's in Morrison and Elliot Maggin all over the place. Superman is the Man of Tomorrow, he's what humans could be _eventually_, not only his ethos but literally his freakin crazy powers, if they'd grow up and stop screwing around.

*For kids*, I'd recommend the 90s cartoon with Superman, there's some fighting but it's less realistic than the Man of Steel/JL films. You can also get the Superman shorts by Max Fleischer for free many places online, they're wonderful. Better than anything Disney makes today, in terms of animation quality and set design.

This is the Ordway drawing, posted it above:


https://imgur.com/a/yryazdd


And, yes - I love tanks. Invulnerability is my favorite power. It's the power to outlast your enemies!

*Addendum: *Regarding the physique, I was raised on comic books and 80s action movies, so my idea of what men 'should' look like is Dolph Lundgren combined with Pierce Brosnan. My father was a bodybuilder, as well, he could tear his shirts apart by flexing. So when I'm looking for 'heroic look', I'm looking for someone who looks like they could fold a bicycle in half with their hands.

Superman's weight is given as 255lbs in the 80s, and toned down to 235 lbs today. But the truth is he looks like he's actually 255lbs in the comics today, and Alex Ross/Curt Swan make him look like he's literally 300lbs. I've met 300lb men, and they look just like the beefcake versions of Clark.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 7, 2022)

*Rant*
I'll take a shot at one of the most persistent memes/myths about Superman, mostly parroted by people who got mad at _Man of Steel_ because Superman cracks Zod's spine: *Superman kills. He always has (with one exception).*

Golden Age Superman kills, and threatens to kill, multiple people. One example: he grabs a torturer in a military camp and throws the man several miles. SPLAT.
Pre-Crisis (Silver/Bronze) age Superman _cuts Mxy in half_. On purpose. Slices that little imp in two. He also attempts to kill three time travellers with heat vision.
Post-Crisis (80s/Iron Age to New 52, also Rebirth Superman, roughly):
Executes three Kryptonians, including General Zod, with Kryptonite.
He beats Doomsday to death (he did not know Doomsday could come back to life until _later_).
He vibrates Hank Henshaw/Cyborg Superman to pieces. He later _specifically says_ that he was surprised when Henshaw came back. Therefor, he was trying to and believed he had killed Henshaw. He doesn't even blink when he does it, either.
He has a conversation with Joker in which he says he has 'no code against killing' and 'just usually doesn't kill people'.

The only period in time when Superman had a hard rule against killing was during the period of the Comics Code Authority, a government-backed censorship organization which disallowed killing by _any_ superhero.
Lots of other superheroes, in DC and Marvel, kill people.
People insisting that superheroes/Superman does not kill are basically referencing a meme that was only true in the 50s, and only true then because of a moral panic about comic books teaching kids to be delinquents.

This character has a vast history, and I have read most of it, and it's really annoying when 12 year olds on comic book forums, who have only looked at a few panel scans, (or old men who haven't read a comic book in 60 years) assume they know everything about the Man of Steel and his ethos.

Something similar happens when they criticze Superman for being too alien in Man of Steel. In the Bronze Age he repeatedly stated that he could never be like human beings because of his origin and incredible power - that's why he didn't marry Lois. As much as John Byrne (over)-did the 'Superman's just a human', that is _not_ a consistent theme and is frequently contradicted throughout the existence of the character. Even Superman's humanity is inhuman: he knows everyone's name and loves everyone. Human beings are physically incapable of this, we have a limit to our cognitive load capacity, and a Dunbar Number beyond which we cannot maintain a mental relationship with more people. Superman's so-called 'humanity' is impossible and inhuman.

Superman is very merciful and 'tries to find a better way', in part because of his vast powers - he can afford to. But the whole 'Superman don't kill' and 'Superman is just a human, besides his powers' really _does not_ match the way most writers portray him. Why the _exception seems to be the rule to the public_ is something I don't understand. I guess John Byrne and memes is the only exposure most people have had to him.

This is not unique to Superman. There's a general viewpoint floating around that superheroes don't kill. That's only (partly) true of cartoons for kids, though (and not always in those cases). I have read a lot of Avengers, Captain America, etc. and there are multiple occasions where team members kill someone, or try to, or assume they have - and they usually don't start weeping and begging for forgiveness. I mean, the lineup of the Avengers recently had Venom, Elektra, Conan, and Wolverine on it - they were impaling and bleeding people out all over the place. Never once did I see the other Avengers chew them out, usually they don't even seem to notice/care. And in the movies they kill people all the time. Batman is the only superhero I know of with a hard, consistent 'no kill' rule, and Batman is a weirdo.

Generally, when they kill someone, they're in the middle of an operation (Hydra members, for example) and just need them to go away, or it's someone very powerful and dangerous. I'm not saying they just rub people out at the drop of a hat. They kill less often than, say, police or soldiers would in combat. But they're not systematically non-lethal. It basically depends on whether they have the luxury of not killing. The more time is pressed, the more threat someone poses, the more likely they are to go for the jugular. I think they'd agree with Gandalf "There are many dead who deserve life, can you give it to them?" but, of course, Gandalf didn't say, "AND WE NEVER KILL ORCS! If you do, you're out, Frodo!"


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## Gloranthan (Dec 11, 2022)

A picture that surfaced last November of Henry Cavill wearing a Reeve-style suit, auditioning for Superman Returns. This is before he got all yoked out, though you can tell he's still in good shape.


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