# Noldolante



## Sagan369 (Aug 5, 2006)

The poem that Maglor made ere he was lost, concerning mostly the Kinslaying at Alqualonde.
Has that been published in one of the HOME books, or anywhere else?


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## Thorondor_ (Aug 6, 2006)

Not that I know of; it seems like a poem remembered only by its name (another case would be that of Narsilion, the song of Sun and Moon).


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## Turgon (Aug 7, 2006)

The Noldolante remains something of a mystery, much like the fate of its author Maglor. That's not such a bad thing really. I don't think Tolkien was enough of a poet to write a Noldolante himself... at least one that was supposedly composed by the greatest of Noldorin poets. So it remains lost to history... but you know those feelings you get when you read the Silmarillion? The sudden blow of sadness when Finrod dies? The indescribable elation when Turgon's appears during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears? That's the folk memory of _Noldolante_. Deep down inside, all Silmarillion fans know the song... but just like Tolkien we don't have the means to express it. The true beauty of the Silmarillion.


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## YayGollum (Aug 7, 2006)

Hm? I've never come across the nonsensical feelings that you described, Turgon person.  oh well. But then, there were the feelings of disgust whenever Beleg did anything, the feelings of pride whenever Feanor did anything, and the mixed feelings of hatred for Hurin and sorrow for Mim, when the evil human killed the superly cool Dwarf.  But yes, the Noldolante is cool, in my brain, even though it was written by one of the more boring types.


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## Turgon (Aug 7, 2006)

The feelings I described are entirely sensical Yay... being as they are only sensations.

How on earth you can feel disgust at Beleg is another matter. When it comes to the Tale of Turin, I've always imagined that anything other than the teenage imaginings of the Blacksword would be a welcome relief to anyone.

'Ooh... I'm so cursed.'

'Ooh... I'm such a self-fulfiling prophecy.'

'Ooh... she looks a little like my mother. I think I'm in there.'

Beleg was a welcome relief from all of that.

Maglor was far from being a boring character... 

I'm guessing you're just ribbing me here, because it's obvious the very idea of the Noldolante gives you similar feelings.


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## YayGollum (Aug 7, 2006)

Well, yes, Yay for a bit of ribbing, but no, I don't see how Beleg could be refreshing at all, in a book full of sickeningly perfect elves. Turin elfbane, although he was a very boring character, was more refreshing than Beleg. Mim, Gwindor, and Glaurung were my bits of refreshment in that story, actually. Also, how was Maglor interesting in the least? He got to do very little. Mayhaps you confuse him with Mablung, in the ways of interesting? Mablung was one of the few elves that I am pretty neutral towards.


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## Turgon (Aug 7, 2006)

Heh! Gwindor was much more interesting that Beleg for sure, but Turin is, was, and still remains the dullest character in the Silmarillion, a child in a man's body. If only he could have pulled his head out from out of his own backside... True tragedy comes from man fighting in vain against his fate, Turin simply seemed resigned to it.

Glaurung of course is the mischief, though not as charismatic as the mighty Smaug.

As for Maglor, he was the only major character of the Silmarillion to survive the fall of the Noldor, and spent the rest of his days wandering the shores of Middle-earth lamenting that which once was. How is that not cool? Also I remember playing a suppliment published in _White Dwarf_ (A British table-top RPG mag) set in The Fourth Age, about some crazed elven bard looking for a jewel he lost in ages past. Of course it turns out to be Maglor, who, having gone quite mad is still seeking his lost Silmaril. It remains to this day the best RPG I ever participated in. Heh... I played a Corsair as I remember.


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## YayGollum (Aug 7, 2006)

Well, I won't defend Turin elfbane. I don't understand why some people enjoy that character. I was mostly supplying the opinion that he is more interesting than Beleg, since he was just another sickeningly perfect elf. Little personality in him, besides that which is required to look sickeningly perfect. As to the Maglor character, I wouldn't call him much of a major character. He is mentioned as a part of certain groups at different times, but is barely written of as an individual, until the end. Not much of a chance for me to discern any coolness. Not being able to move on isn't an especially cool trait, either, in my opinion. He could have been an especially cool character, but, since he wasn't, he was forgotten about in a small follow-up explanation (/story sort of thing  ).


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## Confusticated (Sep 17, 2010)

I remember in HoME 3, in an poem quickly abondoned, there was what might have been the beginnings of an early Noldolante... though it went by a different name.

I think Turgon said it wonderfully:



Turgon said:


> The Noldolante remains something of a mystery, much like the fate of its author Maglor. That's not such a bad thing really. I don't think Tolkien was enough of a poet to write a Noldolante himself... at least one that was supposedly composed by the greatest of Noldorin poets. So it remains lost to history... but you know those feelings you get when you read the Silmarillion? The sudden blow of sadness when Finrod dies? The indescribable elation when Turgon's appears during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears? That's the folk memory of _Noldolante_. Deep down inside, all Silmarillion fans know the song... but just like Tolkien we don't have the means to express it. The true beauty of the Silmarillion.


 
Worthy of points. ;*)


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## Peeping-Tom (Jan 25, 2011)

an extract from
*Noldolantë
(The Fall of the Noldor)*
_being the work of Maglor, second son of Fëanor, first High King of the Gnomes of Middle Earth_
(translated from the Quenya by Simon Rafe)​Tale of Silmarils has been taught
well elsewhere and how Fëanor wrought
fair crystal jewels, and inside these
he locked the light of the Two Trees.
And how these Morgoth coveted
for his own crown. That Dark Lord dread,
though skilled in crafts and things of hand
could not match art that Gnomish land
in Valinor its dwellers made.
And Morgoth walked long in the shade
of desire, and long plotted he
how he might steal those bright gems three.
And so as a cloud Morgoth came,
black as night, ravening like flame,
to the gates of Fëanor's tower
and broke them with words of power.
Then the Noldor fled from his wrath,
only Finwë stood in his path
and guarded those three Silmarils
in their stronghold beneath the hills.
But no one Gnome could ever stand
alone before the mace and hand
of Morgoth the Dark Enemy,
though High-King of the Elves he be.
Finwë was slain before the doors
of his stronghold, and so the Wars
of Beleriand were begun,
most terrible under the Sun.
For Morgoth then the treasure took
of the Noldor, and they would brook
no hinderment of their sworn Quest
to reclaim that they loved the best.
Then Fëanor and his sons, they swore
the Oath that damned with wise Noldor;
a deadly Oath that none should take,
and a fell Oath that none shall break.
The Oath of Fëanor was its name
and it burned like consuming flame.
To pursue, with vengeful hatred
the living or the dark undead,
Demon, Vala, Eldar or Man
as yet unborn, or aught that can
be called a creature of the earth,
good or ill, made or given birth,
fair or foul, beyond Sun or Sea,
that e'er should hold one of those three
jewels that were Fëanor's obsession
and keep it from their possession.
Galadriel no oath she swore
yet in Debate of the Noldor
where Gnomes chose what was to be done
of women was the only one
there to stand those Princes amid
tall and valiant, and then bid,
like Fëanor, Morgoth to pursue.
But rather to see realms anew
did she wish to go, for in part
his words had kindled in her heart
a desire for lands unclaimed still.
To rule there realm at her own will
was her desire, for Fëanor spoke
of how they lived 'neath Valar's yoke
and how those gods did them deny
their rightful kingdoms 'neath the sky.
To Middle-Earth she wished to go
and build her own realm free of woe.
For to that place Morgoth had fled
and 'neath mountains a fortress dread
had he built. And there in his helm
he set those jewels. Then in his realm
all evil poured unto his door
as defence against the Noldor.
West over Sea in Valinor
the Noldor stood upon the shore
and thought how they might come to cross
the Sundering Sea without loss
from those Elven companies great.
And Fëanor perceived over-late
he would need ships to cross the Sea,
so the aid of the Teleri
he sought, and in their harbour wide
of Alqualondë at their side
reminded them of friendship old
and of his fell Quest he them told.
But the Teleri were unmoved
by Fëanor's words, and so it proved
that the Gnomes passed to wrath burning
and with hot words spoke to the King;
"You faithless friends renounce friendship,
you deny to us sail and ship
even in the hour of our need?"
Fëanor cried, "You were glad indeed
to receive our aid when you came
at last to these shores, with no claim
on these shore lands which you now till.
In huts you would be dwelling still
had not the Noldor carved your halls
and toiled to build your tall white walls."
Then answered the King, "We do not
renounce our friendship by one jot.
But it may stand as a friend's part
to rebuke your folly. Why start
our friends the Noldor on this Quest,
demand from us what we love best;
our white ships? Those you gave us not,
they were not wrought in Gnomish grot.
Tar and white timber, pitch and nails;
those we ourselves wrought, and the sails
woven by our wives and daughters
were, and from the Lords of Waters,
not the Gnomes, did we this craft learn,
and by them you shall not return.
We will not give nor sell our ships
for any league or our friendships.
These are dear to us as your gem;
their like we shall not make again."
Fëanor grew wroth, and in his heart
he knew it was time to depart.
And drawing blades Noldor advanced
with axe and sword and spear and lance.
Galadriel was to the fore,
she who never bore arms before.
Yet she learned swift; many she slew
and from her wrath the Sea-Elves drew
back to the stone walls of the quay.
Then forth she charged, and suddenly
Lady of Light, her given name,
no longer seemed to match her fame
for she gave in that bloody press
naught to her kindred but darkness.
Then 'neath the stars, before the Sun
and Moon were wrought, the deed was done;
the first slaying of Elf by Elf,
first time that kindred wounded self
in senseless fight over the Oath
that drove and damned the Noldor both.
And the Lords of Sea rose in wrath
and with their waves the ships did dash
against the stony harbour wall
from where blood of Elves did still fall.
And ships were wrecked and many drowned,
nonetheless escaped from that sound
the greater part of the Noldor,
on foot and ship followed the shore
far northwards to the empty wastes
of Araman. Then in that place
the Noldor beheld suddenly
a figure that could only be
the Doomsman of the Valar great;
Mandos, he who knows of all fate.
And then he fell prescribed this Doom
that over Gnomes shall always loom.
"Full tears unnumbered shall you shed,"
thus spoke the master of the dead,
"the Valar will fence Valinor
against you, and you never more
shall come back to this place of rest;
forever now the Dispossessed
you and your heirs shall ever be,
welcome no more beyond the Sea.
The curse of your Oath unbroken
is this; the Valar have spoken."
Then many quailed, but Fëanor's heart
was harder than his weapon's art.
Galadriel likewise she thought,
although desired not those gems wrought
by Fëanor with the light of trees,
she wished to rule and not appease
those who counted themselves her foe;
to Middle-Earth she wished to go.
Much could be said of treachery
and fate of ships of Teleri,
for Fëanor betrayed his allies
and stole the ships and 'neath the skies
of the north the Noldor did trek
'cross ice and snow and frozen wreck.
The Helcaraxë was its name,
the Grinding Ice that flowed like flame
and burned as deep, yet with fell cold.
Through that boreal waste of old
they were lead by Galadriel.
Though many of their number fell
in trench of ice that crunched and bit,
on cruel hills of ice their bones split,
Galadriel ever lead them
on through the ice to world of Men.
Though in the ice many perished
Galadriel they still cherished.
And though many of them were dead
the Elf-Queen would not be gainsaid.

[FanFiction]


Just if anyone was interested...


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## Prince of Cats (Jan 26, 2011)

Hey Peeping-Tom,

The poem is surprisingly pleasing and stirs up moments of the Silmarillion. I don't believe, though, that Tolkien would have used such a basic rhythm and rhyme scheme for the Nodolante. Having read The Legend of Sigurd and Guldrun I anticipate it to be a bit more ... eddaic :*)


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## Peeping-Tom (Jan 27, 2011)

Prince of cats :


> The poem is surprisingly pleasing and stirs up moments of the Silmarillion. I don't believe, though, that Tolkien would have used such a basic rhythm and rhyme scheme for the Nodolante.


 
I know...and agree, but I'm not the author and can do nothing about it. :*p

I just found it, surfing the Shelob world wide web net....

Comments from the author :


> *A / n : This poem is a (slightly modified) excerpt from a poem I wrote for Valentine's Day in 2002, Of Galadriel and the Exile of the Noldor. That poem can be found in "Nike Rising", my poetry collection (available on the internet via links in my profile). This excerpt was taken and re-worked for a Lord of the Rings RPG I was running.*
> *In the future, I may take this piece and expand it and re-work it, writing the whole of the Noldolante. Also, elements of it will appear in The Lay of Arwen Undomiel when I get around to writing it!*
> *Noldolante is mentioned in several of Tolkien's works but, to the best of my knowledge, he did not write it. I have based this poem on The Lay of Lethian. Tolkien identifies Maglor as the author of Noldolante, and so I have imagined myself as the translator and him as the author! To make it quite clear, I didn't actually translate this poem from the Elvish and I certainly didn't write it in Quenya - my Elvish is nowhere near good enough! The history shown in here is taken from "The Silmarillion" and other sources.*


 
Prince of cats :


> Having read The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun....


 
And you survived to tell the tale....:*D
I came about a third through, before laying the book back onto the shelve.
Guess I just lost the interest...(read : "Where's Middle Earth in that book?" :*D)
But maybe...just maybe, one day, I'll take it down and try again...


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## JennyDolfen (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm sorry for resurrecting an age-old thread (and resurrecting an age-old account too), but I just stumbled across this post of yours, Turgon (if you're still here, that is).




Turgon said:


> The Noldolante remains something of a mystery, much like the fate of its author Maglor. That's not such a bad thing really. I don't think Tolkien was enough of a poet to write a Noldolante himself... at least one that was supposedly composed by the greatest of Noldorin poets. So it remains lost to history... but you know those feelings you get when you read the Silmarillion? The sudden blow of sadness when Finrod dies? The indescribable elation when Turgon's appears during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears? That's the folk memory of _Noldolante_. Deep down inside, all Silmarillion fans know the song... but just like Tolkien we don't have the means to express it. The true beauty of the Silmarillion.



It's the most poignant way of describing how I feel about thze Silmarillion that I've ever read. So I want to say thank you and would like to ask whether I'd be allowed to quote you on that in a new painting I'm doing, entitled, fittingly, Noldolantë. http://www.goldseven.de/wp_noldolante.jpg


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## Turgon (Jan 14, 2012)

Hey Jenny, I was surprised reading that back actually, it's unusually poetic for me!

I'd be honoured if you want to quote from it. I've seen some of your work and your family portrait of the Feanorians is one of my favourite pieces of Tolkien art ever.

Love the picture by the way.

:*)


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## JennyDolfen (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you so much! I almost didn't expect an answer, much less so soon. I will post here when it's done - possibly resurrecting that old picture thread of mine. God, was that long ago.


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## Turgon (Jan 14, 2012)

Good stuff! I look forward to seeing it. I do find, re-reading some of threads on here, that the date takes me by surprise, but I see it as a testament to Tolkien that his work keeps people coming back to places like this.


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## JennyDolfen (Jan 18, 2012)

Finished it today!

Here's the link to the picture on my deviantArt page. http://gold-seven.deviantart.com/#/d4mrdss

Other people are already picking up on your quote. It's such an amazingly fitting way to describe what the Silmarillion does to me. Thank you again!


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## Turgon (Jan 18, 2012)

Beautiful picture Jenny!


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