# Killing of Elves in Aman



## morello13 (Dec 5, 2002)

Whrn the Noldor and the Teleri fought on the harbor with the white ships was the first killing of elves in Aman?
If not what was?
Does the term kinslaing refer only to killing with in one type of elves?
Also somewhat realted, when the host came to Mandos and he said they would never be allowed back to Aman, if they passed him, does this mean only the host of feanor or both feanor's and fingolfin's host would be banished?
or was i woron and he just means that if they left they can't come back?
also i dont understand it, if galadriel was in fingolfin's host how come she is allowed to pass into the west in LotR? Or is there something in the futre that pardons them?(dont tell me the details)


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## gate7ole (Dec 5, 2002)

Actually the first killing in Aman was not at Alqualonde. It was the slaughter of Finwe by Morgoth. And again this was not the first death. The first death (caused by weariness) was that of Miriel (Finwe's spouse) and it is believed that this event caused many of the evils to come.
About Mandos' curse, I think it was meant for everyone and not just a specific host. They were all doomed by the Oath of Feanor and his sons.
About Galadriel, I don't understand your question. Everyone was allowed to return to Valinor after the War of Wrath. It was Galadriel who denied it and stayed at ME, until she got weary and decided to leave after the War of the Ring.


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## morello13 (Dec 5, 2002)

I didnt finish yet, I know im a quickbeam too hasty.
What I meant at Aloquonde, was the first killing of eleves by elves? And related, is it called kinslaying, or ia kinslaying only bettween two of the same type of elf i.e. Noldor kiiling a Noldor.
At the point where mandos says if they leave and go forth to ME they will never be allowed back to Aman, if what i said is correct, are not all the Noldor at the point banished form Aman, Galadriel was with them right, how come at the end of LotR she returns to Aman? Was the banishment lifted at a certian point, i dont want details, i wanna read it, but a simple yes or no.
thanks
J>


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## gate7ole (Dec 5, 2002)

Ok, then Yes. The ban is lifted!
And Alqualonde is the first kinslaying known (I don't know what the Avari did at ME).


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 5, 2002)

Kinslaying means simply killing your own kind, e.g. elves killing elves (no matter what their kind is), men killing men...


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole _
> *Actually the first killing in Aman was not at Alqualonde. It was the slaughter of Finwe by Morgoth. And again this was not the first death. The first death (caused by weariness) was that of Miriel (Finwe's spouse) and it is believed that this event caused many of the evils to come.
> *


I thought about Miriel's death and I realized that that was the beginning of all evil events in Valinor.I would say that was the beginning of the end....(hmmmmm how poetically?!!!)


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## gate7ole (Dec 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *I thought about Miriel's death and I realized that that was the beginning of all evil events in Valinor.I would say that was the beginning of the end....(hmmmmm how poetically?!!!) *


True Gil-Galad. A very interesting discussion about the cause of Miriel's death between the Valar is given in Morgoth's Ring. This death bewildered the Valar who had formely believed in the undying conditions of Valinor. Afterwards they saw in this death the first seeds of the evils that followed at the house of Finwe. They couldn't understand why should someone want to live the body and the place where he/she dwelt. It was in a way explained as another result of Arda Unmarred.


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## Húrin Thalion (Dec 13, 2002)

> About Galadriel, I don't understand your question. Everyone was allowed to return to Valinor after the War of Wrath. It was Galadriel who denied it and stayed at ME, until she got weary and decided to leave after the War of the Ring.



I just have one little thing to say, Galadriel was not allowed to return to Aman ater the war of wrath:



> For the years of her exile began to lie heavy on the lady of the Noldor, and she longed for news of her kin and for the blessed land of her birth, but yet was not permitted to forsake Middle-earth.



This is from the UT in the chapter of Celeborn and Galadriel. There it is also said that all the Noldor were pardoned except for the few leaders of the rebellion that were left. I think she is the saddest character in all the Tolkien's writings, possibly surpassed by Húrin's family.

Húrin Thalion


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