# Verily I come, I come to you



## Beorn (Jan 13, 2002)

> And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leaped towards him; almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him. Very soon it would nail him down, know just exactly where he was. Amon Lhaw it touched. It glanced upon Tol Brandir he threw himself from the seat, crouching, covering his head with his gray hood.
> He heard himself crying out: _Never, never!_ Or was it: _Verily I come, I come to you?_ He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!
> The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger. He was kneeling in clear sunlight before the high seat. A black shadow seemed to pass like an arm above him; it missed Amon Hen and groped out west, and faded. Then all the sky was clean and blue and birds sang in every tree.
> Frodo rose to his feet. A great weariness was on him, but his will was firm and his heart lighter. He spoke aloud to himself. `I will do now what I must,' he said. 'This at least is plain: the evil of the Ring is already at work even in the Company, and the Ring must leave them before it does more harm. I will go alone. Some I cannot trust, and those I can trust are too dear to me: poor old Sam, and Merry and Pippin. Strider, too: his heart yearns for Minas Tirith, and he will be needed there, now Boromir has fallen into evil. I will go alone. At once.'



What do you think said "Verily I come, I come to you?" "Never, never" is Frodo, but is he struggling with the ring, or with Sauron, or with the corruption inside of him? Do you think it was the Ring, or was it the slightest bit of evilness in Frodo (given to him by the ring), awakened by the Eye *dun dun dun*?


----------



## J'ohn (Jan 13, 2002)

Good question, Harad! 

My thought would be that he felt more secure after the "scanner" of Sauron had passed over him and failed to find him.

Maybe that's the way hobbits are. Flipping from deep tension to lightheartedness... Read Tolkien's commentary on Pippin and Merry's conversation, when they entered Fangorn...

SBS


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 13, 2002)

Hmm... I'm not positive but I think it is the corruption within himself. It reminds me of the fights that the 'good and bad' Gollum had with itself. Gollum had ful-fledged arguments becuase he had the ring so much longer. But sinve Frodo has only had the rng a fairly short time he would only have a small inner struggle provoked. like Gollum, by the ring.


----------



## Lantarion (Jan 14, 2002)

I also think it was the Ring, who was 'speaking' through Frodo. The Ring was on his finger at the time, and Sauron saw him (I think), so the eye of Sauron upon the Ring would have caused it to call out as loud as it could.
Did Frodo put the Ring on at Amon Hen in the movie? I can't remember, I saw it many weeks ago..


----------



## Moonbeams (Jan 14, 2002)

I am realy sorry that my book is not here, so I cannot qoute exactly, but there was a sentence, reffering to Gollum, and how he found Mordor; I remember that Gandalf said that Mordor was calling to all evil creatures, and Gollum heard the call since he was under the infuence of the ring for so long. Frodo had the ring, and although he was not wearing it for long, it did start to curropt him. The cry "verily I come, I come to you" was indeed the cry of his little evil side to the master of darkness.


----------



## Brown Ribbon (Jan 16, 2002)

Cracking Post this..

Okay, some thoughts on the Ring and those it influenced (bearers and otherwise).

The effect of the Ring on Bilbo was quite long in taking effect. As Gandalf says in the Shadow of the Past (I think), that the pity Bilbo showed in not killing Gollum stood him in good stead. Despite wearing the ring often over the succeding years, never realising the peril of this (Merry observing him disappearing to avoid relatives), the only outward signs of trouble in Bilbo are his preservation ("stretched, like butter that has been spread across too much bread"), and, perhaps, some of his eccentricities, (eg the mischieviousness streak that led to him putting on the ring at his birthday party). The first sign we get that Bilbo is starting to fall under the Ring's evil is when Gandalf asks him to let it go.
Gollum takes the ring in an act of violence, it affects him far quicker. I think the Appendix gives a timespan of 7 years between Gollum murdering Deagol and decamping to the Misty Mountains, which is quite a sharp decline.
Isildur also took the Ring in an act of force, (however noble) and he was immediatley unable to throw the Ring away. 
The only people that seem able to give the Ring away easily are Frodo (Gandalf, Galadriel) and Sam. The fact, that Frodo is willing to give the ring away after years shows that it is slow to take effect on him. 

But what exactly are the effects of the ring? Does it turn one's mind to evil, or does it start to control it's wearer. Remember Boromir, who never bore the Ring. The impression given is that the Ring festers in Boromir's mind, until Lothlorien, where something snaps. Is this Boromir's pride and recklessness making this change or is the Ring calling him, calling a more powerful wearer, one that will bring it closer to The Lord of the Rings?


----------



## QueenBeruthiel (Jan 16, 2002)

hi there, this is my first post in the forum, and this seemed a tame enough thread to start with!

regarding the influence of the ring upon its bearers, i think the ring is searching for a way to return to its master, and seeks to attract strong bearers, to therfore futher empower itself.

remember when frodo offers the ring to gandalf, gandalf refuses. stating "with that power i should have power too great and terrible. and over me the ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly"

galadriel provides a similar answer, that rings give power according to the measure of their possesor. 

gandalfs explaination to frodo in 'shadow of the past' was that the ring abandoned gollum on its own, in response to the resurging power of sauron, and was seeking a bearer to bring it closer to him.


----------



## Beorn (Nov 10, 2002)

I'm just bringing this up, my curiousity was never satisfied...


----------



## Walter (Nov 11, 2002)

_Zwei Seelen wohnen, ach! in meiner Brust,
Die eine will sich von der andern trennen;
Die eine hält, in derber Liebeslust,
Sich an die Welt mit klammernden Organen;
Die andre hebt gewaltsam sich vom Dust
Zu den Gefilden hoher Ahnen._
Goethe: Faust

(English Translation:
Two souls alas! are dwelling in my breast;
And each is fain to leave its brother.
The one, fast clinging, to the world adheres
With clutching organs, in love's sturdy lust;
The other strongly lifts itself from dust
To yonder high, ancestral spheres.)


----------



## Niniel (Nov 11, 2002)

It didn't notice it at first either, but in fact this struggle going on in Frodo's mind is one between Sauron and Gandalf. The Eye of course is Sauron, but the Voice is Gandalf, who is trying to influence Frodo as well. So on the one hand Frodo is saying 'I will come to you', but he also hears Gandalf's voice trying to persuade him to take the Ring off. In the end Frodo chooses himself to take it off, so in a sense Gandalf wins.
The evidence for this other force being Gandalf is very scanty, but at some point (in The White Rider) Gandalf says: 


> 'The Ring now has passed beyong my help, or the help of any of the Company that set out from Rivendell. Very nearly it was revealed to the Enemy, but it escaped. I had some part in that: for I sat in a high place, and I strove with the Dark Tower; and the Shadow passed. Then I was weary, very weary; and I walked long in dark thought.'


So there he is talking about when he was on the top of Caradhras after his fight with the Balrog, and he that he was fighting with Sauron in Frodo's mind. 
I must admit, I didn't notice this until I read an article about Tolkien's work, but I think it's true (otherwise I wouldn't know what else Gandalf was referring to).


----------



## Confusticated (Nov 11, 2002)

Another idea:
He was in both worlds simultaneously while wearing the One Ring. Maybe in the world of the living he spoke aloud "Never, never!", but in the dead world the part of him that was being currupted cried "Verily I come to you."
Now he couldn't have spoken both aloud together, so I do not know which it was. It could be that in the dead world, someone can speak without actual speech or being heard by the living. If that where so, maybe he did speak both at once.


----------



## Nob Boffin (Nov 11, 2002)

My 5 cents worth;

At some point it is mentioned that Sauron invested much of his own power and himself in the ring, and I assume it is a case of the sum of the whole being greater than it's two parts. The ring, I think has a personality but cannot cummunicate over long distances, otherwise Sauron would have found it a long time ago. It appears the ring needs a vessel of some sort to communicate with Sauron. 

It would also appear that unless Sauron's will is bent on the ring it is difficult for the two parts to hook up. This would explain why Bilbo was able to use the ring at will for 60 years and be relatively unscathed, by the experience. It was only after Frodo had the ring that Gollum was captured by Morder, and the knowledge that the ring was at large in the world became known. Once Sauron knew the ring could be had he bent more of his will toward it, which I think explains why Frodo was corrupted much more than Bilbo had been.Boromir was proud and therefore easily swayed by the power the ring exerted. The ring wraiths responded to the ring's call, and when Frodo put it on in Bree they were aware of it.

I think that the answer to your question is that on some level the ring itself was answering Sauron's call through it's appointed vessel, ie Frodo Baggins. The strength to resist lay in, I believe the Hobbit's general lack of desire for power and wealth. In other words it was harder to corrupt a Hobbit than a warrior, because of their lack of pretense. Gandalf says that were he to take the ring, while he would try to use it for good it would in the end corrupt even him.

A bit of a ramble but what do you think.


----------



## Finduilas (Nov 11, 2002)

Good comes to good and evil comes to evil(I think I wrote it right).You can never want to bring together good and evil and make One unseparatable thing -they will always be different ideas.Frodo is a good hobbit indeed and can't stand corruption-it just won't be him.
Hobbits are a freedom-loving people and corruption,and slavery kill them gradually.
So if Frodo had cried out "verily I come,I come to you" then he had already been 'a bit dead'.The real Frodo realizes the importance of the mission and would never deceive his friends by letting the ring take over his awareness.
I think deep in his soul was born a new Frodo-an evil one who looked very like Gullom,who wanted to give the ring to someone but who also couldn't do it.
So he cried out those words hoping to reach the ring's master and,finally,get rid of the One.


----------

