# Banned Books Week



## Aerin (Aug 14, 2002)

I know everyone on this forum loves books, so I ask you to join me in celebrating Banned Books Week.

During the week of September 21-28, the American Library Association is promoting Banned Books Week in order to promote freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

It is a shame that these books have been banned anywhere in the United States. The basis of our Constitution is of freedom: the freedom to say what we want and read what we want. That is why the banning of books is such a tragedy: it is infringing on our rights of freedom of expression!

With that in mind, help me to celebrate Banned Books Week! Read books that have been banned here. 

Read the books and fight against banning of books!!!

You can read the ALA's details on Banned Books Week here.


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## ltas (Aug 14, 2002)

You gotta be kidding!!!! :-O
'The Catcher in the Rye'???!!! Huckleberry Finn?!!! 'Slaughterhouse-Five'??!!! All banned?!!

I'm speechless..


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## LadyGaladriel (Aug 14, 2002)

Hahahaha Harry Potters a banned book !

Ill celebrate with you . I love reading Banned Books!



GO BANNED BOOKS!


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 14, 2002)

Banned books? I was thinking that they were banned in the entire US, but after further reading. They have just been banned by any one, not everyone. We have freedoms, but so do those who sell and distribute books. If I own a library and don't want something in there, that's my right as a business owner. Books are banned for various reasons. HP was banned for being about "magic and wizards." Most of the sex books were banned because they aren't appropriate for the less mature reading audience. If you want to ban a book from your business, great it's your perogitave. If I want to buy/rent that book, I'll just go somewhere else.


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## Hirila (Aug 14, 2002)

But Gamil... books are not only "banned" by libraries or booksellers. IMHO that's no real "banning". What makes a ban a ban is that is not allowed _by law_ to sell that book. (Ok, I didn't look for information about this, am I right?)

HP isn't allowed to be sold _by law_ in many places and this is what makes me ... grrr... mad.  
If one bookshop doesn't want to sell a book, ok, fine, I'll go to another bookshop. But not being able to buy this book in the whole country, only because some fickle, blockheaded politicians or religious leaders don't want their fellow citicens to laugh at a joke they don't understand... it's incomprehensible. 
Imagine: in some states the Bible is banned, or the Koran, or Darwin's books. Only because the contents of these books may rise criticism on the state leaders' ideology. What ideology is this that cannot resist criticism!

BTW, The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood is one of the best books I've ever read. As is HP


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 14, 2002)

Aw, the bible is banned in many middle eastern countries, yet the Koran is readily available in the US. Interesting. Anyway, this thread is about books banned in the US. None of those books on that list are banned by law (save maybe the Anarchist Cookbook).


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## Beorn (Aug 14, 2002)

AFAIK, those _banned books_ can be sold anywhere in the US to an adult, it's just that some states don't sell them to minors, or will let them be taught in school.

The laws bannings books are made by a bunch of old people sitting in musty room, who can't remember what _they_ had experienced in their childhood, and who can't tell the difference between a story, and real life. They are the same ones who say violence in video games causes violence in RL.

Now, would someone PLEASE tell my why the heck Where's Waldo (No. 88) is on that list?!?!?!?



P.S. I'm starting a thread on this in the Guild of Politics...
P.P.S. I've started this thread in the Guild of Politics...


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## Talierin (Aug 14, 2002)

Hmm... I think one of the pics in Where's Waldo has some guy running naked. But from what I can remember, all you can see is his arse...


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## Aerin (Aug 14, 2002)

Whatever the subject those books are written about, none of them should be banned.
By taking away our liberty to choose which books we can buy/read, our First Amendment is being breached. People should have the freedom to read and buy the books they want, no matter what the material is about.

For children, parents should screen the books; by doing so, most, if not all, "unsuitable books" will not be read by children.

People should also have enough sense to determine which books are good food for the brain, too.


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## ltas (Aug 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gamil Zirak _
> *If I want to buy/rent that book, I'll just go somewhere else. *



OK, you'll go somewhere else. What if they don't have the book there either? Will You bother to search on? How many of us have enough time to do that?

IMO the situtation is serious enough if some books become just hard to find.

When the ideas of certain authors are not approved by someone and because of that our access to their works is limited, it can be seen as an attempt to manipulate the way we think.


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 15, 2002)

Well, with the good old internet, I can get any book I every wanted. I can even find out of print ones (used of course). The great thing about capitalism is that someone will have it so they can get your money!!!


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## Khamul (Aug 15, 2002)

I have to agree with Gamil on basically all of the preceeding points. If I were a parent, I would not really want my child, who could have been dropped off after school, so he can get his homework done, and maybe do some reading, to just pick up and read some book on sex. It is the parents responsibility, and why should an adult be that irresponsible to not explain to their children about the issue. 

But, if anyone wants a book, they can get it somehow. There are tons of online book stores, so no book is really 'banned'.


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## Aerin (Aug 15, 2002)

Ok, so there is always the Internet to access and buy banned books. Great. If you are wealthy enough to be able to afford the Internet.

There are many, many people living in the U.S. who are not affluent enough to be able to buy a computer, much less the recurring cost of the Internet. What about those people?
A good percentage of them live in the country, where finding a single bookstore can take them upwards of 20 miles out (I know, I used to live in such a town). And what if that bookstore doesn't carry the book you want? Drive another 10, 20, 40 miles?

As for picking up books in the school library about sex, what do you think "Health" is? It's not just about how your body works; there is a long unit on Sexual Education. Is that any worse? 
I can clearly remember the school hallways abuzz with talk about "what they did over the weekend" with their boy/girl friend. What I heard whispered in some of my classes was a lot more explicit than what one can learn in class or a book.
By sending one's child to a public high school, the parents are essentially allowing them at least a couple hours of unsupervised talking about any subject. (Unsupervised time meaning time in between classes and walking to/from school.)

In the bookstore, it's not very difficult to have an "Over 18" section where books pertaining to adult topics can be kept. Having a sales attendant stationed near the entrance would prevent nearly all children from accessing those books.
And what about the adults who buy the books, then leave them lying around the house where children can access them?


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## Khamul (Aug 15, 2002)

Well, then they can call up on some book catalog that they mailed to, and ask for ........ to be delievered to their house. Im sure that most people in America who are interested in reading are privileged with phones. 

I see your point, but doesnt society have enough of that crap regardless? I dont understand why you would condone pornography, which is an addiction regardless. Though it may not be as severe as drugs, does that mean we can pass it off as nothing? Freedom of speech is limited, Prayer taken out of public schools is the taking of one's 'freedom' and giving it to another. Their must be a balance, and maybe a catalog or something like that. Teachers get arrested for looking at porn in class, as one idiot realized after he left the Tv-out cable on while he was 'surfing' during the children's test. 

I cant condone for the fact that some people are idiots and dont take care of their kids..........

True on the point of school, though half the people who do it just make it all up...At least at my high school. Pot and cocaine would be more of the stuff they dont joke around with.


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## Aerin (Aug 15, 2002)

It doesn't matter how much of the "crap" America has; what matters is that it's banned, for whatever reason.

Of course I cannot condone pornography in any way; it is disgusting, unlawful, and wrong. That doesn't stop anyone from participating in it, however.

Limiting the freedom of speech is unforgiveable, in my opinion. The Constitution of the United States guarantees every person in the USA the freedom to speak about whatever they want. To limit that is to infringe on their Constitutional rights guaranteed to them.

Who gets to decide what books are banned? I'll tell you: the people in political power (however they came by it), who have found books that do not agree with the views they hold, and therefore they ban the books.
The written word is an extremely powerful and dangerous tool; just think of that piece of paper that some obscure Colonial Americans wrote on; it wouldn't have been so important if it hadn't convinced the colonies to unite and overthrow Britain's power and influence over the colonies. That document was the Declaration of Independence, only one of the most important _pieces of writing_ in existance.

Most people sincerely believe that if only *some* books are banned, that only those that they find disagreeable, for whatever reason, will be banned and censored. That view works just fine... until the people in power decide to ban the books that the people who supported the previous bannings like or believe in.

Banning books is like playing dominoes: it starts off quietly, with seemingly little impact, but it will eventually impact everything.

What sets America apart from the rest of the world are the [/i]pieces of writing[/i] that set a guideline for the government and the rights of the people.
America could be like nearly any other country in the world, *except* for the Consitution and the Amendments. Without those, we are not set apart, we are not special in that regard.

By infringing the First Amendment - even though may will argue that banning books is a small infringement, if one at all - those in power are exerting a more powerful control over the people than is lawful in the United States. By not allowing people access to any and all books (no matter what the material) they are infringing on and reducing their rights as citizens of the USA, which is not just a "small infringement".

As for high school - I went to a very small town high school (450 students total) way out in the country. Nearly all of them engaged in drinking, smoking Lord-knows-what, and promicuous sex. I heard more in the hallways and in class when the teacher wasn't listening than most will get in Sex Ed......


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 16, 2002)

Under your theory, you have the right to say whatever you want (be it true or not). So, I could start telling lies about you and you couldn't do anything about it. I love that good old constitution like the next guy, but you have to be responsible with the rights you have. If no one was abusing them, we wouldn't need the rules.


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## Aerin (Aug 16, 2002)

True, you could start telling lies about me and I couldn't do anything to *you*, but I could either deny what you've said or start spreading rumours about you too. 

But that would be abuse of the right of Free Speech.

What the Amendment is meant to protect against is people coming into power, then not allowing view points or opinions that differ with theirs to be voiced. That, in time, would lead to tyranny, which was exactly what the Founding Fathers were attempting to avoid.

The "rules" are in place because people are perfectly willing to abuse their rights and the rights of others. Without the rules, the people who came into power would assert their authority and dictatorship over those who were not in power. Therefore, the rules are the only thing keeping everyone equal.
As long as people don't try to make fun of them.


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 16, 2002)

Well, the constitution does say that Congress shall make no law abbridging the freedom of speech. I'll give you that. I'm in complete agreement with it too. The congress sticks its big fat nose into our business far too often. Why don't we go after the movie industry as well. They tell me I have to be 17 to see a rated R movie or 13 to see a PG-13. They are banning those movies from me if I don't meat their age requirements. Lets get the record industry as well. They are banning explicit lyrics cd from me if I'm under 17. Some of those books are banned for the wrong reason (i.e. Harry Potter, Of Mice and Men, etc.), but there are some on there that aren't appropriate for children (the sex ed books). On top of that, there's one on there that teaches you how to make a bomb and all kinds of other dangerous crap. Again, the books aren't banned in the US. They are just banned at some schools and libraries.


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## Beorn (Aug 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gamil Zirak _
> * but there are some on there that aren't appropriate for children (the sex ed books).*



Ummm...Isn't the point of most sex ed books to _teach_ kids about sex. If you tell kids that sex ed books aren't appropriate for them, are they going to think sex is something bad and naughty? You'll probably end up with kids who'll experiment for themselves.


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## Telchar (Aug 16, 2002)

The Lord of the Flies? We had to read that one in 7th grade..


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Beorn _
> *Ummm...Isn't the point of most sex ed books to teach kids about sex. If you tell kids that sex ed books aren't appropriate for them, are they going to think sex is something bad and naughty? You'll probably end up with kids who'll experiment for themselves. *


Are we talking eight year olds or are we talking sixteen year olds? If you think reading a book about sex education is going to teach you something, you are very mistaken. How hard is it to say that unless you want to get someone pregnant or get a disease and die, don't have sex until you are married.


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## Beorn (Aug 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gamil Zirak _
> *How hard is it to say that unless you want to get someone pregnant or get a disease and die, don't have sex until you are married. *



Very hard to the one you're telling it to.


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 17, 2002)

Maybe it's too hard for some people to do. Besides, would you rather have your child read about sex in a book or be told about it by someone that cares about them.


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## Hirila (Aug 17, 2002)

As for the sex before marriage leading to pregnancy and diseases only, that's crap. There are ways to prevent that. And pornography? Let the ones who like to make it make it and the ones who read/watch/whatever do with it do it. As long as it is done under free will and not forced and as long as children don't have access to it.

But back to the banned books:


> Who gets to decide what books are banned? I'll tell you: the people in political power (however they came by it), who have found books that do not agree with the views they hold, and therefore they ban the books.


Aerin is right. That's exactly what I've said. Books are there to promote thoughts, ideas. And yes, they ofte promote ideologies and propaganda. But that is what they are meant for, therefore it should be free to publish whatever he wants (if he ever finds a publisher doing the job). But only if there are also publications telling people the opposite of these "bad books". Let people choose what book they believe in. 
I am not talking about racist, discriminating or Nazi books. These should rightfully be banned because believing in these ideologies only causes harm and disaster. 
But all these other books, the ones on this list for example or those about sex ed or whatever some poeple dislike and want to see banned, these books deserve to be read. 
As long as contradictory ideas can also be heard.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 18, 2002)

I go with you on the fact that some ideas are harmful, Hilara, but I wouldn't ban even Nazi books because it opens the door... What is a harmful idea? Everyone has their own idea. In the Bible there is a heck of a lot against homosexuals and I can see some liberal yelling that because of this it is a discriminatory book and getting it banned. I can see older books written before the civil rights movement being banned because they have the "n" word. It opens us up to a lot of dangerous options.

Personally I support the right of any book store owner to personally ban whatever he wants. I think it is his right. We can't force Christian book stores to carry HP or books on Darwin or anything that goes against them just because they may be the only book store a poor person can get to easily. I don't believe in that sort of power. 

Gamil, I agree with you totally on the sex-ed issue, and I think that sex out of marriage is a dangerous thing, emotionally as much as physically. The ways to prevent the problems aren't very good. 

About these books in public libraries or schools, this is why I don't believe in publicly funded institutions. It gives too much power to the government to decide what we think and read. Privately funded institutions could decide for themselves.


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## Gamil Zirak (Aug 18, 2002)

HLGStrider, it's good to see a hard core conservative on here besides myself. The crummy government likes to muck around where it doesn't belong.


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## ltas (Aug 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gamil Zirak _
> *Besides, would you rather have your child read about sex in a book or be told about it by someone that cares about them. *



Not all children have caring parents who would tell them about these matters. 
IMO even the books that may contain some "sensitive material" should be available to general public, since for someone those books may be the only source of information available.
After all, one of the main purposes of books is to widen people's (aspecially young people's) knowledge of life.


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