# Dwarves...Mortal or imortal?



## Anamatar IV (Apr 14, 2002)

In tlotr Gandalf says to frodo "A mortal who wears a ring of power becomes stretched and eventually invisible." So how about the dwarves they wore rings. Mortal or im.


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## Turgon (Apr 14, 2002)

Dwarves are most definitely *mortal*. They live, they grow beards, they die...


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## Beleg Strongbow (Apr 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Turgon _
> *Dwarves are most definitely mortal. They live, they grow beards, they die... *






That is right. Although they live longer then "ordinary" men they still die which makes them mortal.


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## Dûndorer (Apr 14, 2002)

give me a M. gimme an O. gimme an R. give me a T. give me an A. give me a L. whats that spell? mortal! think about it.


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## Anamatar IV (Apr 15, 2002)

okay so why didnt the dwarves grow invisible?


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## Gamil Zirak (Apr 15, 2002)

The Dwarves weren't swayed by the rings like men were. In fact, the seven Dwarve rings were at the heart of every great Dwarve kingdom. The rings made the Dwarves lust for gold and silver even more. The Dwarves do die, but unlike men, they live on in the "after life" in Aulë's mansion.


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## Lantarion (Apr 15, 2002)

Are you sure it was *a* Ring of Power, and not *the* Ring? Because if it's not, then Tolkien made a small mistake saying that 'mortals' are affected by Rings of Power.. Because Dwarves, eg. Durin, did not 'fade' at all. Thror and Thrain also wore a Dwarf Ring, and they didn't fade. And how could they fade when the Rings had no evil power in them? Hmm hmm..


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## ILLOTRTM (Apr 16, 2002)

Yeah, I think Gandalf was refering to THE ring when he said that, wasn't he? I mean, I could be wrong....


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## Grond (Apr 16, 2002)

Dwarves are not a race that is easily defined. It is true that they live a mortal lifespan but they are definately not related to Man as the Hobbit is. 

Let us not forget that the Dwarves were of Aule's design and were "of the Earth" more than any of the other races. Although mortal in lifespan, their race was more hardy than others and were totally unwilling to subvert to the will of anyone else. This "iron will" was the characteristic (instilled by Aule) that kept them from "fading" while wearing their Rings of Power. I don't think the author was wrong in his description of the effects of the Rings, I simply feel he failed to give a complete definition of the way he was using the word "mortal". 

But... that is my opinion... and I've been wrong before.


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## tom_bombadil (Apr 18, 2002)

mortal they live a long time but they die eventually after growing big beards


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## Woo (Apr 18, 2002)

It is written that the Dwarf race can not be controlled or subjected to the will of Sauron or even Melkor or any other being. Because as Grond said earlier they have a kind of Iron will.
Sauron himself noticed this and because of this he destroyed all the carriers of the seven Dwarf rings. For Thorins father was kidnapped and imprisoned in the dungeons of Dul Guldor because he was a carrier of a ring. Hence there are no Dwarf ringwraiths.


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## simpson3883 (Dec 8, 2010)

I just stumbled upon this site searching for an answer as to whether dwarves are mortal or not.

Wasn't death the gift given to men by Eru? Which would imply that the dwarves do not suffer it.


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## Uminya (Dec 8, 2010)

Dwarves died of old age. Eru gave mortality as a gift to Men, and while dwarves were the craftwork of Aule, there's not really any sort of indication that they are immortal. In fact, most of the evidence points to the contrary. There are several instances of dwarves (particularly referring to the Oakenshield Party in the LOTR) being described as getting older and feebler. For instance:



Many Meetings said:


> He (_Frodo_) was interested, however, to hear that Dáin was still King under the Mountian, *and was now old (having passed his two hundred and fiftieth year)*, venerable, and fabulously rich.



If Dwarves were immortal, age would be of little consequence, and they certainly wouldn't refer to each other as being "old".


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## Parsifal (Dec 26, 2010)

The best example is Durin the Deathless, the eldest of the Seven Fathers, founder of Khazad-Dum.
He awakened shortly after the Elves, and grew immensely old, but eventually died of old age somewhere during the First Age. He was mortal, and so were all other Dwarves, though they all lived much longer then Men (not by far as long as Durin I though), and many appear to die in battle.

However, Durin appears to be mortal, and if the other Dwarves call him "Deathless", they certainly were mortal.

The Dwarves however believed that Durin reincarnated (in the later Durins), so it is possible that Dwarves had the same bouding to the World as Elves, though they certainly did not have perpetual Youth.


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## Afalstein (Jan 23, 2011)

Lantarion said:


> Are you sure it was *a* Ring of Power, and not *the* Ring? Because if it's not, then Tolkien made a small mistake saying that 'mortals' are affected by Rings of Power.. Because Dwarves, eg. Durin, did not 'fade' at all. Thror and Thrain also wore a Dwarf Ring, and they didn't fade. And how could they fade when the Rings had no evil power in them? Hmm hmm..


 
No, small rings have the power too. That was the entire point of the Nine, they were men who overused their rings of power and became wraiths.

Dwarves aren't immortal, but they are strange. Aule has some sort of special plan for them, as they're not really Eru's children. It kinda hints that the dwarves have strange beliefs, thinking that Durin does indeed return every so often. Reincaration, maybe?

Sauron couldn't use the rings to press them into service, he could just corrupt them by making it aggravate their greed. However, do we know that the dwarf-lords with the rings didn't fade? The only dwarf-ring mentioned is the one Thror and Thrain had, and I believe that was a special one, made entirely by the elves, untouched by Sauron.


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## Edheldae (Jan 30, 2011)

Mortal needs some definition in Tolkien's context of usage. Only men were mortal in the sense that when they died they were not bound to the circles of the world, but departed somewhere beyond, where, the elves knew not. Dwarves and elves were bound to the world and did not leave it but it was thought the spirits of the dwarves were gathered in halls set apart, perhaps in waiting to assist their creator, Aule, in re-making the world. Elves only did not age as men and dwarves did. But like elves, dwarves were very hardy and not subject to illness, or some of the nastier side-effects of the rings.

Dwarves did age and die however. I think the History of Middle Earth vol12 has a bit about their expected lifespans, and how long they would retain their vigor (which was long) before going quickly downhill at the end of their natural days.

Yes, lots of interesting tidbits about dwarven forefathers, at least Durin, possibly returning, all though it may have just been an heir with remarkable semblance, or hints of some kind of ancestral memory.


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## Alcuin (Jan 31, 2011)

There is a family tree of Dwarves descended from Durin (ancestors and relatives of Thorin II Oakenshield and Dain II Ironfoot) with years of their births and deaths at the end of Appendix A in _RotK_. I believe I recall that these Dwarves typically lived between 200 and 300 years.


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## Mimzy (Feb 3, 2011)

Mortal but long lived. Like the Numenoreans.


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