# Irresponsibility at the Council of Elrond



## Hadhafang (Apr 1, 2003)

Do you think that the decision of the Council of Elrond to entrust the destruction of the ring to a hobbit was a mistake?

What course of action would you have suggested if you were present at the council?


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## YayGollum (Apr 1, 2003)

No, it wasn't a mistake. If they used bigger and scarier things, Gollum wouldn't have been able to show how cool he was. Anyways, if I was there, I would have let a Dwarf take it to that Mount Doom place. They were made to resist the superly evil evilness of Morgoth. Tossing a ring made by Morgoth's little servant wouldn't be too hard for them.


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## Lantarion (Apr 2, 2003)

Lol Yay. 
The Council saw that the only crack that they had at destroying the Ring would have to be hinged on secrecy and stealth. Hobbits were and are naturally soft-footed and nimble thieves (Cf. the Hobbit ), and gandalf knew that they were strong-willed and "courageous at a pinch" or something.


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## FrankSinatra (Apr 2, 2003)

*Easy*

Its easy to say it wasnt a mistake after we know what happened!

But what if they had let Bilbo take it?

Or Boromir's plan had been adopted?

Or it had been taken to Bombadil?

Or attemped to take it to the sea?

Can you imgaine the different stories that would have come about if either one of those leads had been taken?


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## Hadhafang (Apr 2, 2003)

I think it would have been more prudent to seek out Radaghast. He could have struck a deal with Gwaihir to bear Frodo with the ring to Mt. Doom. This would have also saved a tremendous amount of lives. The Pelennor Battle would have been avoided altogether saving the lives of thousands of people. The council was irresponsible not only for allowing a week little hobbit to bear the ring but also because it delayed the destruction of the ring....delayed it long enough for the sacking of Gondor. It could have been over a lot sooner. They chose unwisely.


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## FrankSinatra (Apr 2, 2003)

*Well*

Would have made for a boring book though, dont you think.


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## krash8765 (Apr 2, 2003)

But maybe it wouldnt be so wise to send an eagle with frodo on it to Mount Doom. Surely the eye of sauron would spot it easier and the nazgul on their fell beasts would pounce on the eagle and surely kill it easily probably before it even got close to Mount Doom.


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## kohaku (Apr 2, 2003)

ah yes, the old eagle debate. this question comes up from time to time, and there are probably still some old thread lying around about this subject that give the pros and cons to that idea.

as to the question at hand, i think it was a very good decision. i agree that a hobbit was the best as far as stealth is concerned. furthermore, of all the races they were the most resistant to the ring's temptations... a simple folk, lacking the desire for power that characterizes the other races. also, destroying the ring is was the only responsible thing to do. it was the only way to rid middle earth of sauron forever, and to do anything besides destroy it would only leave the problem for a later generation to deal with.


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 2, 2003)

It was the best desicion because Frodo was the only person in the entire council that they knew could get the quest done without falling under the Ring's corruption. He still did though. Think how early someone else would have started to despair... 


Frodo was special, because he showed lots of spirit and got the Ring to Rivendell and wasn't even attached to it yet. That says alot, cuz the Ring was beconing pretty loudly (not litteraly), or strongly to the Nazgul.


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## Finarfin (Apr 2, 2003)

Frodo wouldnt have had a chance without Sam or gollum, shelob would have eaten him (and probably the ring), he would have been killed in cirith ungol, he would have kept the ring at the crack of doom or he would have pranced all the way up to the gate of Minas Morgul. My point is that it's no use discussing whether giving the ring to froo was a good idea - it was a team effort all the way

PS: forgot to mention that sam actually carried the ring for a while (and made damn good use of it)


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## Finduilas (Apr 2, 2003)

Although Frodo showed a lot of the qualities that you enumarated I think that since Elrond and Galadriel were so wise and old as well, they had a so called feeling about this things. 
Let's follow the track. The first people who noticed the evil that Sauron had were Galadriel and then Elrond. So do you think that a hobbit that seems to be very suitable for the job might escape from them...


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## Elendil01 (Apr 2, 2003)

YayGollum, I think that giving adwarve the ring of power would be amistake. Dwarves hate evil and Mordor, but they love gol and jewelry


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## Hadhafang (Apr 2, 2003)

> ah yes, the old eagle debate. this question comes up from time to time, and there are probably still some old thread lying around about this subject that give the pros and cons to that idea.


It doesn't have to be the eagle debate. There could be other ways they could have destroyed the ring with less risk. I threw that one out there as others have done in the past. Another possibility would have been for the elves to deliver the ring to the Valar in the west. I am sure Orome could have brought the ring to the fires of Mt. Doom rather easily. While this method would have greatly reduced the risk of the ring falling into wrong hands, it still would have taken a long time. The Pelennor fields would still be fought most likely.
Anyone who thinks that the Frodo delivery idea was a good plan is neglecting the fact that it took to darn long. Sauron's forces would not have bothered attacking if Sauron was crippled with the ring's destruction much sooner. While Gandalf and Elrond were very wise...they were not perfect. The plan they chose was irresponsible at best.


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## Finduilas (Apr 2, 2003)

If I got it right, you say that it was a better solution to take the Ring to the West.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. Tolkien himself has discounted that possibility. Despite the fact that the way to the Undying Lands was 'closed', there were more certain reasons for which the Ring could not go to West. One of them was that the Valar now were as Watching Gods. They now didn't participate in Middle Earth People's issues. 
Moreover, it was hobbit's, elves' and human's destinies but not the Valar's.
Elrond and Galadriel knew best what to do with the Ring's fate and to whom they could give it. Moreover, as it was said, Frodo revealed a great strenght and endurance towards the One.


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## YayGollum (Apr 2, 2003)

Hey, crazy people! Sure, The Hobbit talks about how quiet hobbitses can be, but it also says that Dwarves are almost as quiet. Anyways, so what if Dwarves like gold and jewelry? Do you really think that if some Dwarf had the One Ring on a chain and walked all the way to Mordor, he'd suddenly have the urge to run off on a treasure hunt when Sauron didn't even have any way to influence him directly? That's the only thing he could make them do when he was actually trying. I don't see why you'd think that he could do the same thing in this scenario. *hides*


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## Feanorian (Apr 2, 2003)

> delayed it long enough for the sacking of Gondor.



Well Gondor was never really sacked.........a sacking would be that of Gondolin or Nargothrond. A complete and utter destruction of the city and its people. and..........the councils decision was in no way iresponsible who else could have done it??


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## krash8765 (Apr 2, 2003)

this starts up another good question. Would a dwarve be better then a hobbit as ringbearer? We know that dwarves are extremely hardy and very resilent to evil but they are definately not quiet or stealthy. As seen from in the hobbit the constant use of "dwarvish racket." I think a good hearted dwarve could resist the evils of the ring just as long as frodo could.


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## The_Swordmaster (Apr 2, 2003)

I agree with Yay 100%.

But Yay I would think that you would have picked Frodo was the best decision. Because in that version gollum is the hero. I think a dwarf would just kill him as soon as he got in the way.


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## kohaku (Apr 2, 2003)

Where does it say that dwarves are almost as quiet as hobbits? Gandalf chose Bilbo to aid the dwarves because he would be much quieter than the heavy-booted, chain-mailed dwarves. Also, they are relatively proud and greedy, so they would more easily succomb to the ring's temptation. 

I agree with Finduilas that the gods would not have intervened in such a way. Also, there is still the fact that the elves would have to carry the ring to the west without falling under its power. As it is, the elves refuse to take it because they know they could not resist using it.


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## Feanorian (Apr 2, 2003)

> so they would more easily succomb to the ring's temptation.



well....they were proud and greedy but the rings given to the dwarves never took any control over them accept adding to their greed(and wealth)


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## YayGollum (Apr 2, 2003)

I think it talks about Dwarves being almost as quiet as nasssty hobbitses in that chapter with the trolls. Something about the evil thief Bilbo Baggins walking around in the woods and complaining about the Dwarvish racket, but that the whole group could have passed by a human from not very far away without being noticed. 

Anyways, I already said that I would have allowed the superly boring Frodo to go because of poor Smeagol. But that's only because I read the book. If I hadn't, I'd go with the Dwarves. 

Also, we have no idea how huge the resistance to evil the Dwarves had next to the nasssty hobbitses was. I'd say that Dwarves would be better since they were made by a god specifically to resist the evil of another god while the nasssty hobbitses are just some weird type of human.


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## Hadhafang (Apr 2, 2003)

Imagine this scenario, a parent gives an 8-year old child a diamond worth $1,000,000. The task given to the kid is to walk the diamond back to its rightful owner 50 city blocks away in a high crime area. The parents also know that there are nine mass murderers/muggers at large in the neighborhood that have recently escaped from prison under sentences of child murder. A few of these murderers know the kid has the diamond and will kill for it. Would you consider the parent, a responsible parent?

While Frodo is not eight year children, he is relatively as wise as one compared to Elrond and Gandalf who can be compared to the parents in the analogy.

I still maintain that the Council of Elrond was a failure and that they were downright neglectful. The best solution was the eagles proposed by many others in the past.


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## FAUST (Apr 2, 2003)

I hate to say but Frodo was a wimp he should have been more tough and not rely on anybody but himself, but then again I dont know much about the story.


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## FrankSinatra (Apr 3, 2003)

*Well*

Then why are you here?


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## kohaku (Apr 3, 2003)

Well, greed for wealth is not exactly the same as a desire for power, but they are similar. Desire for power is just another form of greed, and wealth and power are often closely related. I don't think a dwarf would succomb to the ring as easily as a man, but I still think a dwarf would be less able to resist than a hobbit.

Also, anyone who thinks ANYONE in the fellowship is a wimp should try putting themselves in that character's position. Not as easy as it sounds. Part of the problem is we are given unrealistically powerful characters like wizards and elves to compare the other characters to, so that to some readers the very realistic shortcoming of those other characters are magnified out of proportion.


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## Gandalf White (Apr 3, 2003)

My personal opinion is that the only way the Ring could be destroyed is the way it was done, giving it to Frodo. Not only was fate involved (remember, Frodo decides he wants to stay with Bilbo, he opens his mouth and out comes "I will take it"), but the relationships that he had that enabled him to fulfill his task. The loyal Sam who not only kept him going, but rescued him and saved the Ring. Gollum, the totally pivotal piece of the puzzle who actually destroys the Ring. As stated before I seriously doubt any dwarf would keep Gollum alive. Then, when he got to the Crack of Doom and claimed it for himself there would be nothing to save him from the Nazgul coming to take him. 
In summary, fate gave the Ring to Frodo, but Frodo still had to conquer the mission. "If you do not find a way, no one will"


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## Feanorian (Apr 3, 2003)

> Imagine this scenario, a parent gives an 8-year old child a diamond worth $1,000,000. The task given to the kid is to walk the diamond back to its rightful owner 50 city blocks away in a high crime area. The parents also know that there are nine mass murderers/muggers at large in the neighborhood that have recently escaped from prison under sentences of child murder. A few of these murderers know the kid has the diamond and will kill for it.



Well first off I would not call Frodo an 8 year old, and second off to answer your question I think I would send my kid on that trip with 3 of his best friends and 5 deadly assasins, especially an old wizard whom the leaders of the council new what he was capable of.......


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## YayGollum (Apr 3, 2003)

Ack! Why do people still think that Dwarves wouldn't work? Didn't I already say that they were made by a god to resist the evilness of the most superly evil god? It worked. Morgoth wasn't able to mess with the Dwarves. Why would Sauron be able to if he's nowhere near as big and scary and powerful as Morgoth? I'd think that a Dwarf would just be able to walk right up to that crack of doom thingy and toss the Ring in.


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 3, 2003)

Just probly because Dwarves are greedy and already have trouble up in the Iron Hills. There aren't really any special Dwarves out there. And Tolkien's whole story is around the Bagginses.


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## YayGollum (Apr 3, 2003)

Isn't this thread about crazy hypotheticalness? Why worry about the evil Bagginses? Anyways, Gimli wasn't doing anything in the Iron Hills and I don't remember him seeming superly overwhelmingly greedy all the time.


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## kohaku (Apr 3, 2003)

Yes, perhaps a dwarf could accomplish the task. Who knows? But I still think a dwarf is more likely to fail because they are more greedy and less stealthy. Also, hobbits had played a small role in the history of middle earth, so Sauron would more easily overlook one. Dwarves, on the other hand, came about in the first age and were present in many wars and conflicts.

In particular, Elrond chose Frodo because he had already carried the ring so far without being overpowered, even after the ringwraith attack.


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## YayGollum (Apr 3, 2003)

How would greed stop a Dwarf from tossing the One Ring into that crack of doom thing? Look at Gimli. When did his greed ever get in his way? I can't even remember seeing any evidence of greed on the guy in the entire book. oh well. I'm sure you have a great reason for doubt.  

How would being a little less noticeable than a hobbit stop a Dwarf from tossing the One Ring into that crack of doom thing? I just don't get that part. oh well. 

You think that a huge reason for the nasssty hobbitses being able to get to that Mount Doom place without getting caught is because history didn't notice them very much? What, would Sauron be able to sense approaching Dwarves carrying his Ring around better than some nasssty hobbit? I missed that part.


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## Hadhafang (Apr 3, 2003)

Tolkien's LOTR is a masterpiece. I am in no way stating that Tolkien should have written it any other way. This thread is supposed to point out what in my opinion was a poor judgment call by some of the characters in the story. I could also say that Boromir did not behave justly when he tried to take the ring from Frodo. Noone would argue with that. That isn't a knock on Tolkien.


> In particular, Elrond chose Frodo because he had already carried the ring so far without being overpowered, even after the ringwraith attack.


I see this as lending support to my argument. The council sent damaged goods to destroy the ring. If they wanted to maintain stealth they should have given the ring to another equally strong hobbit that wasn't fresh off the disabled list. Furthermore, a new ring bearer would have had less exposure to the ring by that point and probably would NOT have choked on Mt. Doom like Frodo. In the end the fellowship succeeded. However, they relied on an enormous amount of good fortune to accomplish victory. The council threw entirely too much caution into the wind with the plan they developed....irresponsible!


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## Gothmog (Apr 4, 2003)

> Furthermore, a new ring bearer would have had less exposure to the ring by that point and probably would NOT have choked on Mt. Doom like Frodo.


 I point of fact it would not matter who took the ring to Mt. Doom. Even a "Fresh Hobbit" (yum yum  ) would have "Choked on Mt. Doom like Frodo." There was in fact No one in Middle-earth, Not even Sauron himself who could do anything to intentionaly harm the Ring.


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## Arvedui (Apr 4, 2003)

I do not think that the CoE was irresponsible.
They choose the best available person to accomplish the mission, and supplied him with the best possible companions.In additio to the 'stealth-ability,' let me add a couple of more pros:
1) The race 'hobbits' were an unknown to Sauron and his followers, until he was told by Gollum, who had the Ring.
2) Hobbits had shown an unprecedented ability to withstand the power of the Ring.

Sauron knew what the Elves, Dwarves and Men were capable of, and what their weaknesses were. He didn't know diddly about Hobbits' capacities, in fact he hardly knew about them at all, until it was too late, and the Ring was about to leave its last known location. Add to this the fact that Bilbo had not fallen to the Ring for a great number of years, and that Frodo had also shown that he was able to stand against evil (Weathertop).
Of course they had a bit of good luck in that Samwise would not let Frodo go alone, but I guess that one as wise as Elrond would have known that Sam eventually would follow Frodo everywhere. At least Galadriel knew that, later.

Of course YayGollum would want the Dwarves to take the Ring, because he knows that Gollum would have taken it. But thanks to Sam (and Frodo), he only got to take it to a nice, hot lava-bath


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## Feanorian (Apr 4, 2003)

Well he didnt want to get shown up by Legalos the elf so he went, i doubt he or any other dwarf would be interested in going to Mordor, even if they were able to.......maybe it could have sucessful if they werent so loud...but then again ma ybe not.


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## kohaku (Apr 4, 2003)

The fact that Frodo had carried the ring and resisted the ringwraiths showed Elrond that he was capable of the task. I can see how some may take that as "sending damaged goods" but that is not how I see it. In many ways the saying "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is true. Although it did not really make him physically stronger, resisting the wringraiths was an exercise in mental power, and that experience made him the best fit for the task.



> How would being a little less noticeable than a hobbit stop a Dwarf from tossing the One Ring into that crack of doom thing? I just don't get that part. oh well.



I never said a dwarf couldn't do it, I said being less noticeable would make it more difficult.



> You think that a huge reason for the nasssty hobbitses being able to get to that Mount Doom place without getting caught is because history didn't notice them very much? What, would Sauron be able to sense approaching Dwarves carrying his Ring around better than some nasssty hobbit? I missed that part.



Yes, he would more easily notice a dwarf because he knows more about them than about hobbits. Dwarves do not shy away from war, and their weaponry is well known throughout middle earth. An approaching dwarf would be much for suspicious to Sauron than an approaching hobbit.


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## Gandalf White (Apr 4, 2003)

Just a comment. All the people in here seem to be saying that Elrond and/or the council chose Frodo to bear the Ring to Mount Doom. This is not true. Fate took over as I stated earlier, and Frodo willingly took the Ring himself. It was not of Elrond's choosing, although he immediately saw that the task was "appointed to Frodo" by fate. 
And thank you Gothmog for that statement you made. It proves that Frodo was really the only one who could accomplish the task because he alone had the crucial relationship with Gollum that ultimately destroyed the Ring.


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## kohaku (Apr 4, 2003)

> Just a comment. All the people in here seem to be saying that Elrond and/or the council chose Frodo to bear the Ring to Mount Doom. This is not true. Fate took over as I stated earlier, and Frodo willingly took the Ring himself. It was not of Elrond's choosing, although he immediately saw that the task was "appointed to Frodo" by fate.



Very true. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for me to say that the council agreed with, or did not detain, Frodo. This debate concerns whether or not the council was irresponsible in their decision to let Frodo take the ring rather than choose an alternative.


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## Melko Belcha (Apr 4, 2003)

For one, a Dwarf could not take the ring to Mordor, expecially one of the Longbeards. What do you think Gimli would have done once he had the One Ring and got into the Orc infested Mountains of Mordor? Gimli is my favorite character of the Fellowship, but his hatred for Orcs would have been his downfall, just as Boromir's desire to restore and save Gondor was his downfall.

I don't see the Eagles destroying the Ring for the same reason they cannot take the Ring to the True West. The Eagles were the decandents of the Eagles of Manwe from the First Age, so IMO they would not have taken it because it was a problem for Men to deal with. I know the Eagles had helped out alot in the story, but I just don't see them taking on the responsability for saving the world.

As Gandalf pointed out, Sauron had little or no knowledge of Hobbits, which gave them a big advantage. Sauron would expect a Man, Elf, Dwarf, or even Gandalf to take charge of the Ring, and would keep as close a watch on them as he could. Sauron would not expect them to put their hopes into such a small, and to him, weak race.

And as Gandalf said, Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and that means Frodo was meant to carry it. Plus Galadriel came from Valinor and had lived in the pressence of the Valar, so I'm sure she had alot of insight and could tell that there was more at work then just chance.

When you try to sneek into an enemies land you want to sent the people with the most stealth and the people who the enemy would expect the least, the Hobbits were the perfect choice. You never know, if Gandalf or Aragorn would have stayed with Frodo he may have been given away before he even reached the Black Gate.


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## Feanorian (Apr 4, 2003)

> As Gandalf pointed out, Sauron had little or no knowledge of Hobbits, which gave them a big advantage. Sauron would expect a Man, Elf, Dwarf, or even Gandalf to take charge of the Ring, and would keep as close a watch on them as he could. Sauron would not expect them to put their hopes into such a small, and to him, weak race.



Well I do not think this would make a difference because Sauron was not looking for anyone to come to his kingdom and attempt to destroy his Ring because he could not conceive the thought of someone trying to destroy the Ring, that thougt never entered his mind....


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## Melko Belcha (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Feanorian _
> *Well I do not think this would make a difference because Sauron was not looking for anyone to come to his kingdom and attempt to destroy his Ring because he could not conceive the thought of someone trying to destroy the Ring, that thougt never entered his mind.... *


Great point, it goes with what I was trying to say, but I didn't get it out. Sauron did not think that anyone would try to destroy the Ring, but he would think that either Gandalf, an Elf, or a Man would have it and use it against him, so the Hobbits would have been of little concern to him. He knew a Hobbit carried the Ring to Rivendell, and then from Rivendell the Hobbit left in the company of Gandalf and others who might have the power to use the Ring against him. Whether Sauron still thought the Hobbit had the Ring or had passed it on to someone more powerful, who knows, but IMO he would have seen the Hobbits as probably nothing more then servants and helpers then anything else, Gandalf's cronies.


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## YayGollum (Apr 4, 2003)

Yikes! I missed too much! I had lots to say about the Dwarves again, but I probably won't do it now. I came up with a crazy idea. Tom Bombadil. He'd do a good job even if he didn't care about the One Ring. It looks like nothing can touch him as long as he can sing. All he'd need is the rest of the fellowship there to remind him what he's supposed to be doing.


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## Hadhafang (Apr 4, 2003)

Instead of arguing why I think they were irresponsible let me lay out what I would have suggested if I were at the council of Elrond: 

"The ring stays in Rivendel while Aragorn, Gandalf, and a host of Rangers and Elf warriors seek out Radagast the Brown. Upon finding Radagast, seek out or summon the great eagle Gwaihir. Have Radagast open a dialogue with the eagles letting them know what will befall if the ring gets into the hands of Sauron. Even the eagles would be affected by this. They helped Gandalf and Bilbo in the past under much less important circumstances. I think they would help in such dire need again. Send a dozen eagles to Rivendell to take Frodo (the ring bearer), Gandalf, and Radagast to Mordor. Leave at night and fly high to avoid detection. No movement is to occur during the day. During the day rest in high peaks inacessible from the ground. Follow the Misty Mts. south over the Gap of Rohan. From their follow the Ered Nimrais into Gondor. The final resting point should be on Mt. Mindolluin. At nightfall, nine of the eagles will leave from Mindolluin flying low, yet high enough to avoid arrow shot from the ground. This will be the diversion. A few minutes later the remaining three eagles (the three fastest) each carrynig Frodo, Gandalf, and Radagast will head straight to Mt. Doom. The first nine eagles will scatter every which way into Mordor but towards Orodruin drawing attention away from the ring bearer. The three will land near Sammath Naur. Gandalf and Radagast enter into Sammath Naur with Frodo to witness the destruction of the ring and to prevent any mischief, keeping a close leash on Frodo. Cast the ring in and get out as quickly as possible. Return the three to Rivendell. And the eagles will be granted a reward that Radagast will negotiate."

That would be my plan. I think it is a lot safer, quicker, and just as stealthy as the council's plan. Too much could have and did go wrong with their method. My plan was more parsimonious and guarenteed a much higher percentage of success. It also would have stopped Sauron before his forces built up too much. The council of Elrond came up with a plan that put the ringbearer into too much peril. They were irresponsible.

Once again, I am not saying that is how Tolkien should have written it. I am pointing out how the characters in the story made a poor, hasty plan to destroy the ring.


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## Gandalf White (Apr 4, 2003)

Interesting to say the least. _If_ it worked though, you do realize that someone would have to push Frodo into Mount Doom. Hhehehe, that's a funny thought. "I'm sorry Frodo my lad, but this must be done!" *push* 
Good point though, Hadafang.


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## Hadhafang (Apr 4, 2003)

> Interesting to say the least. If it worked though, you do realize that someone would have to push Frodo into Mount Doom. Hhehehe, that's a funny thought. "I'm sorry Frodo my lad but this must be done!" *push*


 That is funny. But why would they have to push him?


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 4, 2003)

I was actualy thinking that Sam would have to end up pushing Frodo in when I was reading the book. Then I thought Gollum would dive in after the Ring, and Sam would be all alone. Sam always was my favorite hobbit.


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## YayGollum (Apr 4, 2003)

What's all of this craziness about Radagast? The evil torturer Gandalf seemed like a good friend with those eagles most of the time. Why waste time getting Radagast when all they had to do was head over to the Misty Mountains and let the evil torturer Gandalf talk to them? Anyways, what's wrong with my Tom Bombadil idea?


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## Hadhafang (Apr 4, 2003)

Yay Gollum I don't think Tom Bombadil could have done this.
Gandalf states in The Council of Elrond chapter:


> And now he (Tom Bombadil) is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, * and he will not step beyond them.*





> Yay Gollum: Why waste time getting Radagast when all they had to do was head over to the Misty Mountains and let the evil torturer Gandalf talk to them?


This is probably the most overly cautious step in my plan. two wizrds are better than one. Also Radagast the brown was the wizard that handled animals the best. He would be able to persuade the eagles easier than Gandalf in my opinion.Gandalf states in the Council of Elrond chapter:


> Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends.


Radagast clearly had good contacts.


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## YayGollum (Apr 5, 2003)

That first quote is just craziness. It's just the opinion of the evil torturer Gandalf as far as I can tell. There's nothing that actually proves that. Anyways, yes, sure, I guess the two wizard thing would make sense. I kind of thought that they were in a hurry, though.


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## ShootingStar (May 5, 2003)

I do think that the choice of ringbearer and the way the ring got to Mt. Doom were chosen irresponsibly and not completely thought through, but what could they have done with the people they had and the time frame they had? I believe they did pretty well under the circumstances. They were in a hurry. Sauron's men were coming, and they couldn't have just sat there waving the ring while they tried to think of a better route to Mordor. Just my opinion!

And as for Tom Bombadil, I think it is said sometime in the CoE that he would forget why the ring is important and probably give it away or throw it away.


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## Gil-Galad (May 5, 2003)

My personal opinion is that there were some mistakes that were done during the council.The decision to let Frodo and Sam to go is right and they prove it,especially Frodo.But I doubt about Merry and Pippin's participation.They really did some things that influenced negatively.I think they did mistakes because they were quite unexperienced,and that was probably the mistake- to leave unexperienced hobbits to go with you.But later,they both gain cognition from life and become of great imortance for the war.So I repeat the long-known saying:"Everything is good when it finishes in a good way."


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## Theoden_king (May 6, 2003)

Clearly it wasn't too bad an idea to send Hobbits as the ring was destroyed wasn't it?  

I like Yay's idea about Tom Bombadil.



> And as for Tom Bombadil, I think it is said sometime in the CoE that he would forget why the ring is important and probably give it away or throw it away.



I think that Yay already answered that.



> All he'd need is the rest of the fellowship there to remind him what he's supposed to be doing.


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## Mithlond (May 6, 2003)

> That first quote is just craziness. It's just the opinion of the evil torturer Gandalf as far as I can tell. There's nothing that actually proves that.


Bombadil himself states what Gandalf thinks.

From _The Fog on the Barrow-Downs_


> They begged him to come at least as far as the inn and drink once more with them; but [Tom] laughed and refused, saying:
> _Tom's country ends here; he will not pass the boarders.
> Tom has his house to mind, and Goldberry is waiting!_


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## YayGollum (May 6, 2003)

There we go. Thank you very much, Mithlond person! I hate to stop discussions like that.  Anyways, still, *sniff* who knows? Lots of people asking him to help out might work. That Goldberry person seemed more sensible, too.


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## Mithlond (May 6, 2003)

Sorry to spoil the fun there YayGollum, it just had to be done.


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## YayGollum (May 7, 2003)

Why say sorry when I thanked you for it? oh well. I'd like to see what other people have to say about the crazy views in this thread. sorry if I slowed things down.


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## Hadhafang (May 7, 2003)

So far I have seen noone come up with a better plan then Hadhafang Plan listed above......wierd to think of myself wiser than a wizard and a High Elf.


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## YayGollum (May 7, 2003)

Well, of course you'd go for your own idea.  What were mine again? oh well. Sure, having Radagast to help out would be fun, but I don't see why they'd even think of that. We happen to know that Gandalf was always talking to those people, too. It wouldn't be a huge deal for them to walk over and ask for some help.


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