# Mordor and Mirkwood



## Celeborn (Mar 7, 2002)

I was wondering. In Mordor, are there any animals like the black squirrels or the spider creatures of mirkwood? And in Minas Morgul and Cirith Ungol, are the silent watchers and the creatures without lids over there eyes just limited to the Nazgul or are there things like the watcher in the water from Moria? Plz answer cuz i need to figure this stuff out as they are strange questions like the ones of tom bombadil and balrog wings.


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## Eonwe (Mar 7, 2002)

well the spiders of mirkwood are the "lesser-broods" ? of Shelob, who came from Ungoliant. It says that her offspring spread throughout the Ephel Duath mountains, so I guess there are at least spiders in the mountains of Mordor.

The watchers are an interesting topic. Sam and Frodo see and sense a great evil spirit in them. But then in the conversation between Shagrat and the other Orc in the tower the Orc says Sam getting by the watcher is _tarks_ work. I am assuming that this means one of two things, because I think _tarks_ is an Orc word for the Numenorean decendents:

1) That the watchers were originally a work of the Men of Numenor (or Minas Ithil)
2) That getting by the watcher could only be done by a man of Numenor

interesting question...


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## Elfarmari (Mar 8, 2002)

IMHO, the watchers are powerless (or at least less powerful) when confronted by Elves, Numenoreans (originally elf-friends) or the light from Earendil contained in Galadriel's gift.


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## Bill the Pony (Mar 8, 2002)

Eonwë, that is an interesting question. I always thought option 2, because if the watchers were made by _tarks_, then how come the orcs can pass them? (assuming the numenoreans made them for guarding, then I guess they were made to guard against orcs, not against hobbits?) 
So then somehow the orcs think that numenoreans are strong enough (will power? physical power?) that they can pass whatever wall the watchers put up. Snaga seems to think that there's either an elf or a tark around. But he only mentions tarks when he's talking about passing the watchers. Does that mean that elves would not be able to pass them, or did he just not mention them?
But what kind of 'power' do the numenoreans (and the phial of galadriel) have, that nobody else: other men, elves, hobbits, have?


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## Eonwe (Mar 10, 2002)

its really interesting. I PM'd a few "smart" people to see if they could come up with an answer, but no bites.

I would say, first, that the Men of Numenor had some science on their side, in that they made Orthanc, Minas Tirith, etc in their time, had (arguably) the greatest army ever, that overtook Sauron with no fighting, and went to the shores of Aman. So I suppose you could say that maybe, they would have enough knowledge to make a device like this, that would bar entrance to someone unauthorized. That's what I imagine was the original function of the watchers, to keep evil creatures out of the Tower of Cirith Ungol.

But Sam sees an "evil" will or malice in the watchers, so perhaps the Nazgul or Sauron corrupted these "devices" to make them keep out good and let evil in and out.

???


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## Thorondor_ (Oct 1, 2005)

I don't think that it was the "men of Gondor" who built/created the watchers; after all, they look rather evilish, with three joined bodies each and animal heads and claws.


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## Sangahyando (Oct 6, 2005)

I would say that the watchers are controlled by those who are in control of the _palantir _of Minas Ithil. The strengths of the watchers are as much in signalling as they are in providing fear.

Sangahyando, great-grandson of Castamir the Usurper


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