# Maedhros or Maglor?



## Confusticated (Apr 25, 2004)

Take your pick.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 25, 2004)

Maedhros. Maglor was more of a quiet, kind natured harping playing type, whereas Maedhros was a lot more adventurous and strong and he had a nice body too. 

Maedhros is also more important in the general scheme it things, he is the leader of the Fëanorians, and he lived for so long hanging off the spike, had to be separated from his lover good old Findekano and he single handily held Himring during the Braggolach.

Not that I'm belitting Maglor, he was noble and valorous too, but I think that Maedhros's good points outweigh his younger brothers.


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## Confusticated (Apr 25, 2004)

Single-handedly? Was that a bad pun (hehe!) or do you forget Maglor joined him, as well as all the most valiant of the people, unlike Caranthir who slipped away to his baby brothers' forest and then retreated further south, or Curufin and Celegorm who ran off to Nargothrond which just happened to be the most safe of the known realms of the Noldor meanwhile all the north was at war?

What do you think of the oath Inder? I editted that question in after submitting the thread so you might have missed it? I had been previously been planning to make it its' own thread.


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## Ithrynluin (Apr 25, 2004)

I quite like both of them, and though they committed a few atrocities because of the Oath, they also did a few admirable deeds to redeem themselves.

Maedhros did a few honourable things, and his survival of being hung from that cliff is really amazing. Like Inderjit says, he was more of a leading figure than Maglor, though this may have something to do with him being the eldest son.

Maglor was the most skilled in music, so it could be said that he was the 'Fëanor of music'. Well, except for Daeron.  It is said that his voice 'was heard over land and sea'. He made the lament 'Noldolantë' (The Fall of the Noldor), which I think is a nice tribute and must have sounded wonderful when sung by him personally.
As for his other, more 'important' deeds or skills, Maglor slew Uldor the accursed easterling. It was also he who nurtured Elros and Elrond and took pity upon them. History may have taken another course if these two were to perish. Maglor also wanted to submit to Eönwë's plea to return to Aman and there receive the judgment of the Valar and perhaps come into possession of the Silmarils, while Maedhros was unwilling.

I choose Maglor over Maedhros, though by a narrow margin.


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## Inderjit S (Apr 25, 2004)

> Single-handedly? Was that a bad pun (hehe!)



 



> do you forget Maglor joined him, as well as all the most valiant of the people



Of course not. It's just that Maedhros was the driving force in the defence of Himring.



> What do you think of the oath Inder? I editted that question in after submitting the thread so you might have missed it? I had been previously been planning to make it its' own thread.



I think they took the oath for the same reason-loyalty to their father. 



> Was it wrong of Maglor to be willing to break his oath?



Possibly. Maybe it shows us that he was freer from the shackles of oath of his father and the Silmaril's then Maedhros (i.e. he was starting to "think straight") and was beginning to view things in perspective. The fact that he thought the oath may yet be "broken" has a sense of naïveté to it, how did he know you could just break an oath like that, just because it doesn't suit you anymore, but it was wise too, Maglor had a wife and a life to think about in Aman and he may have had a more positive view of the Valar, i.e. he may have thought that they would forgive him and his brother and repudiate the oath.

But Maedhros realised that the oath would continuously eat away at them. He realised that if he and his brother took a sense of evil or perfidy with them to Aman then this would lead to even more trouble. He was unwilling to taint Aman. Of course he lacked the faith in the Valar that Maglor had. This can be seen as a trait inherited from his father or he may have been brought up the be anti-Valarin etc. But then again he wonders if the Valar indeed have the power the lift the ban. Maybe he was being a realist? i.e. stating that the Valar could never repudiate the oath and they would be forever tormented by their oath.

Notice that Maglor (it is said) lives yet Maedhros dies. Does this have anything to do with their choices and characteristics?

ithrynluin are you praising some Fëanorians? *rubs his eyes*


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## Maedhros (Apr 28, 2004)

From the _Lost Road and Other Writtings: Quenta Silmarillion_


> Maidros the chief of Fëanor's sons did deeds of surpassing valour, and the Orcs could not endure the light of his face; for since his torment upon Thangorodrim his spirit burned like a white fire within, and he was as one that returneth from the dead, keen and terrible; and they fled before him.



And of course from the _Tale of Years D1_


> At Yule Dior fought the sons of Fëanor on the east marches of Doriath, and was slain. There fell also Celegorn (by Dior's hand) and Curufin and Cranthir. The cruel servants of Celegorn seize Dior's sons (Elrún and Eldún) and leave them to starve in the forest. (Nothing certain is known of their fate, but some say that the birds succoured them, and led them to Ossir.) [In margin: Maidros repenting seeks unavailingly for the children of Dior.]



And who was it that spoke against the burning of the ships at Losgar?
It has to be me!


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## Inderjit S (Apr 28, 2004)

Maedhros also stopped Celegorm and Curufin from doing anything rash about Doriath and delayed the attack on Sirion.


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## Ingwë (Jul 15, 2005)

I voted for Maedhros. He was rescued after his captivity. He spent some time hung by the wrist from the heights of Thangorodrim. Later he dwell in the Marshes of Maedhros and he was the first who will be attacked...
But when the Sons of Fëanor attacked The Exiles of Gondolin Maglor find Elrond and his brother Elros, took pity on them and released them. This was good deed.


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## Hammersmith (Jul 15, 2005)

I was going to put Maedhros, no contest. After reading the opinions of Maglor's virtues, I'll still go for Maedhros, but with a narrower margin. There was some act of evil or other that Maglor was responsible for that seemed to me particularly repugnant, but I can't remember it, whereas Maedhros maintained his friendship with...oh, what's his name? The guy who rescued him from the tower. Yeah. He was a nice bloke.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 15, 2005)

I don't think Maglor did anything morally repugnant, or anything more morally repugnant than his brothers. And Maedhros was rescued by Fingon.


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## Hammersmith (Jul 15, 2005)

That's the guy! And they maintained their friendship forevermore, or something comradely like that. Maybe it wasn't that repugnant, but whatever it was, it tainted me against him for the rest of the book.


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## bauglir (Sep 8, 2005)

Maedhros is my favourite character in the whole wide world!


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## Miguel (Apr 5, 2018)

I felt very bad for both of them, but i'll go with the mighty singer. Imagine being at the Dagor Aglareb with Maedhros and Maglor singing this while slashing throats and cracking heads xD


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## Cloudhauler (Jun 20, 2018)

Maedhros. I love that he gives up his claim as the High King of the Noldor to Fingolfin as penance for the betrayal of his father, Fëanor.


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## MidnightStorm (Jun 20, 2018)

I’m honestly a “fence-sitter” on this one. But I voted for Maedhros, the people’s favourite out of both admiration and pity. (I wish he didn’t jump into the fiery chasm).
He hangs from his wrist on off Thangorodrim for a few weeks (or so?) and still managed to sing in reply to Fingon.
But what really made me like him was the fact he relinquished his claim as high king of the Noldor.


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## Elthir (Jun 20, 2018)

MidnightStorm said:


> He hangs from his wrist on off Thangorodrim for a few weeks (or so?) and still managed to sing in reply to Fingon.



Welcome! And perhaps you'll esteem the mighty Maedros even more (if the following is correct), but I think it was far longer than a few weeks, even considering the much lower ratio of Valian Years to Sun Years.

Maedros was captured before Sun Year reckoning, and 1 Valian Year = 9.582 Sun Years (At one point Tolkien imagined 1 Valian Year = 144 Sun Years [see notes 4 and 5 to Text XI in _Myths Transformed,_ Morgoth's Ring], however who knows what he would have altered had he used this for the chronology already written, so here I imagine the smaller number).

VY 1498 Maedros captive by the wrist

VY 1500 in 1500 Fingolfin set foot upon the Northern Lands with the first moon-rise, and the Sun arose -- according to the _Annals of Aman_ -- and this is also noted under Year 1 of the Sun in _The Grey Annals._

SY 5 (Sun Year of course) rescue of Maedros.

So . . . a while!​I'm not trying any math here, but these were the dates Tolkien wrote with the 1 Valian Year = 9.582 Sun Years in mind!


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## MidnightStorm (Jun 20, 2018)

Galin said:


> Welcome! And perhaps you'll esteem the mighty Maedros even more (if the following is correct), but I think it was far longer than a few weeks, even considering the much lower ratio of Valian Years to Sun Years.
> 
> Maedros was captured before Sun Year reckoning, and 1 Valian Year = 9.582 Sun Years (At one point Tolkien imagined 1 Valian Year = 144 Sun Years [see notes 4 and 5 to Text XI in _Myths Transformed,_ Morgoth's Ring], however who knows what he would have altered had he used this for the chronology already written, so here I imagine the smaller number).
> 
> ...


Wow! No wonder he told Fingon to shoot him!
But that is a very long time.


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## Kinofnerdanel (Jun 25, 2018)

I'd go for Maedhros for all the reasons already written here, but I'm hunted by the image of Maglor walking on the shores of the sea and singing to himself after he cast away the silmaril.

"And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him; and he cast it at last into the Sea, and thereafter he wandered ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves. For Maglor was mighty among the singers of old, named only after Daeron of Doriath; but he came never back among the people of the Elves."


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