# Who are the wizards???



## Jorg (Aug 12, 2002)

In the Apendix it is said that it came 5 wizards to middle earth in the begining of the third age. Gandalv the grey Saruman the white and Radagast the Brown but who is the two others??????????
And are the wizards maians??????


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## Beorn (Aug 12, 2002)

_Originally posted by Myself_:
*They other two were Alatar and Pallando.

They travelled into the east. After the War of the Ring, it is suspected that they created 'cults'. Their colors are unknown




I have not named the colors, because I do not know them.* I doubt if they had distinctive colors. Distincction was only required in the case of the three who remained in the relatively small area of the North-west. I really do not know anything clearly about the other two -- since they do not concern the history of the N.W. I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Numenorean range: missionaries to 'enemy-occupied' lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.

Click to expand...


The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, # 211

*He did refer to the other two a few times as The Blue Wizards.*


Also, check out Istari and Maiar for more info.



And the plural of Maia is Maiar


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## Jorg (Aug 12, 2002)

Thank u 4 clearing things up 4 me


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## pohuist (Aug 12, 2002)

I believe it was mentioned somewhere else that there colors were blue.


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## Maeglin (Aug 12, 2002)

Beorn when you say that they traveled east after the War of the Ring which war are you referring to, the one at the end of the Second Age or the one at the end of the Third Age where Frodo destroys the ring, because if you refer the Third Age then I would think they would have some sort of involvement in the war, or should have

now that you guys mention the other 2 I want to know more about them and really wish tolkien would have included them in the stories


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## Beorn (Aug 13, 2002)

No, they travelled east at some point in time. Then, after the WotR, they started cults. AFAIK, they had nothing to do with the WotR


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## Lantarion (Aug 13, 2002)

Welcome to the forum Jorg! 
For more information on the Ithryn Luin (Blue Wizards), and the Istari in general, try to get your hands on an excellent book called Unfinished Tales. You will learn everything there is to know about them, and much more! (Uh-oh, sounding like a commercial..)

And I would like to further elaborate on the point made by Beorn: 
Maia = singular, '1 Maia'.
Maiar = plural, 'many Maiar'

Istar = singular, '1 Istar'
Istari = plural, 'many Istari'

And it is the same for Ainu, Ainur; Vala, Valar; and other such Elvish names.


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## pohuist (Aug 13, 2002)

I can't say there is much in UT, but, yes, there is something.
You may also try Encyclopaedia of Arda.


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## Maeglin (Aug 13, 2002)

thank you that was very informative


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## Imagineer (Oct 23, 2011)

The Sil says wizards were made from music. Those sent to middle earth were assigned or chose colors.. while back in the homeland... how many wizards could be running around in every color doing what?

Did color mean anything to Gandalf except for the usual black for bad, white for good?


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## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 24, 2011)

Where did they say they were made from music? They were with Eru in the beginning when they sang the great musics but they themselves weren't made from music.


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## Bard the Bowman (Oct 24, 2011)

Imagineer said:


> The Sil says wizards were made from music. Those sent to middle earth were assigned or chose colors.. while back in the homeland... how many wizards could be running around in every color doing what?
> 
> Did color mean anything to Gandalf except for the usual black for bad, white for good?



First of all Imagineer, since you posted this topic on about every section imaginable, I will answer you for good. The wizards are Maiar spirits. They were not created by music. Rather, Eru conceived them through thought, and he had them (and all the Ainur) create music. The music created visions of beauty. 

Olorin was the wisest of the Maiar, and Curunir was another. In the Third Age (or sometime around then) the Valar saw the struggles of the Free Peoples of Middle-earth, and they sent five Maiar guardians, in the form of old men, to protect and sustain the earth. They were forbidden from revealing their full power, and therefore could not challenge Sauron openly. Instead, they were to work with the Free Peoples and thwart Sauron's forces. The Five Wizards were part of the White Council, a group of powerful Elves and wizards. 

Two wizards, Alatar and Pallando, wandered off into the Far East and became stewards of Nardor. They are generally reputed to wear sea-blue robes. 

Now, color is simply symbolic. Saruman was the head of the Istari (wizards) and so he was white, as white is the greatest color. The rest was in my opinion, for convenience. Gandalf was traveling abroad, and needed a fairly neutral color, so grey did, until he became head of the order. Radagast was interested in the olvar and kevlar, as he was a pupil of Yavanna's, and so brown was more suitable. 

In summation, wizards is a general term, but the only wizards worth mentioning, and indeed, the only ones with real power, are the Istari; Maiar in human form.


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## elessarGObonzo (Dec 15, 2011)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Where did they say they were made from music? They were with Eru in the beginning when they sang the great musics but they themselves weren't made from music.


 as far as I remember Eru created all of them: wizards, "gods", "angels", and the other spirits for the Great Music. as they played they realized things were coming to be. by the time it was far enough along for them to realize what was happening some joined the "reality" that was the music they had created. then again after entering realized they were still part of the shaping of this world/reality but had to "play by ear" because Eru wasn't there to lead the music anymore. still though as things progress they seem to understand there is a destiny for Middle Earth, or rather a preconceived story=music.
sound near anyone else's understanding?


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## Prince of Cats (Dec 16, 2011)

Bard the Bowman said:


> Two wizards, Alatar and Pallando, wandered off into the Far East and became stewards of Nardor.


 
Hey Bard,

Nardor: what where when is it? I've read plenty of posts about the blue Wizards and Tolkien letters regarding them but don't remember any definite outcome of the Wizards or a kingdom Nardor.

Thanks


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 16, 2011)

Many people have speculated on the disappearance of the Blue Wizards. Some have suggested they wandered off and died. Some say they started cults and praticed the dark arts. Some say they joined Sauron. But the rumour I give most weight to is the one that says they became stewards of Nardor. Apparently someone wrote about a remnant of Numenor not of the Faithful that escaped the destruction of Numenor. They were swept far south into the mountains beyond Far Harad and started a kingdom there. A whole story was written about it.


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## Elthir (Dec 16, 2011)

So 'stewards of Nardor' is fan fiction I guess.

As for me I'm not even sure the 'other two' were blue :*)


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 16, 2011)

Undoubtedly Nardor is fan fiction, but it sounds plausible. I mean, after all, how is it that Sauron couldn't destroy Gondor, when it had so much trouble just existing without any enemies?


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## Adanedhel (Dec 30, 2011)

Bard the Bowman said:


> But the rumour I give most weight to is the one that says they became stewards of Nardor. Apparently someone wrote about a remnant of Numenor not of the Faithful that escaped the destruction of Numenor. They were swept far south into the mountains beyond Far Harad and started a kingdom there. A whole story was written about it.


 
Where can I find this story?


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## Bard the Bowman (Dec 30, 2011)

Just to be clear, Tolkien didn't write the story. It's a fan fiction story. I'll see if I can find it and post it.


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## Adanedhel (Dec 30, 2011)

Ok, thanks Bard


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## tspnyc (Feb 15, 2012)

Who are the wizards?

At times people refer to the wizards as demigods and others see them as similar to archangels sent in human form.

This of course is just a way of comparing them to other such beings in the mythology of the real world. I see them similar to archangels, because my own culture had them in its mythology, not demigods like Orion or Orpheus.

They of course are NOT wizards, not in the sense of Merlin the Magician or other such wizards.

Tolkien's conventions include the fact that this entire epic has been translated from long-dead languages.

The elves are not elves and have nothing to do with the elves that make cookies or steal babies in Ireland or whatever. The long-lost (and ficitional) translator used the terms elf and elves because it is a reference modern humans can at least understand. But it was not meant to be taken literally. The Common Speech is nothing like the words used in the novel. Example: Samwise Gamgee is an English-ifcation of the Westron name Banazir Galpsi (or Galbasi.)

Same with "dwarves", who actually had another name and have nothing to do with the seven dwarves who helped Snow White and Rose Red, or the one named Rumpelstiltskin - no connection whatsoever. Durin's folk - or whatever his real name was - could in some ways be comparable to the folktale beings that came down to us as "dwarves", and therefore that name was used.

Just as the language of Rohan is not what you read when place names or character names are mentioned or when we hear characters speaking in the book. That is in fact Old English. The fictional translator uses the language of the Anglo-Saxons to represent the now lost tongue of that more-ancient peoples, who, as the bard tells us, had no letters and made no books. So we know less about their actual language than the speech of the ancient Picts.

And wizard, well we all have ideas of what a wizard is and so the translator uses that term since it could be said the Istari share certain characteristics with wizards of folklore and legends. When they actually are something much more exotic than mere wizards.

When it comes to what happened to the other wizards, it is most likely the author never got around to sketching them out much. 

I do not find much weight in Tolkien's quick answers to fans writing him about such things, often years after he was writing the books. He is trying to appease their desire to know as much as possible about the "back story" and at times he seems to answer without thinking things through, giving them enough to satisfy the query. 

For example, he famously said in just such a response that Treebeard was not one of the Wise, when implying the ent was mistaken when he said the Dark Lord "made" trolls, which is later contradicted by Frodo, who said the Dark Lord cannot make he can only mar, even though Frodo's language in that paragraph makes it clear he is offering his opinion, saying something to the effect of "Or so I think that is the case."

Yet at no point in the novel - ever - is there another instance of a non-evil character making an utterly false statement. It just does not happen. And if Treebeard, the eldest living being in all the world is not a member of the Wise, little hobbit Frodo isn't even in the running. Treebeard, in the novel, is held in obvious reverence as a person of great wisdom and worthy counsel by no less than Celeborn and Galadriel, not to mention Gandalf of the Istari. 

Tolkien, in his letter to the fan asking him to split hairs about who is right, Treebeard or Frodo, is just an author who didn't want to say "Look, Mate, I wrote the two passages seven years apart and when I went back to shore up edits I didn't notice the contradiction. I do hope you realize I made it all up out of thin air!"

It is likely he never got around to thinking about such things as what happened to the other wizards mentioned in that one, little sentence, until someone sent him such a letter asking about it.

Tolkien, at least, got a life. 

But we? We millions who have loved his world and wished we could see what lies behind that locked door on the Paths of the Dead, we have thought about such things far longer than Professor Tolkien.


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