# Failure of love or the Curse of Morgoth?



## Arvedui (Oct 14, 2003)

Another topic from the Debate Tournament:

Failure of love or the Curse of Morgoth?
From the Published Silmarillion: Of Túrin Turambar



> At first his own people did not know Gwindor, who went out young and strong, and returned now seeming as one of the aged among mortal Men, because of his torments and his labours; but Finduilas daughter of Orodreth the King knew him and welcomed him, for she had loved him before the Nirnaeth, and so greatly did Gwindor love her beauty that he named her Faelivrin, which is the gleam of the sun on the pools of Ivrin.


Yet the love was turned to Túrin.


> Then the heart of Finduilas was turned from Gwindor and against her will her love was given to Túrin


Is this a failure of love between Finduilas and Gwindor or was it the curse of Morgoth at work?


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## Starflower (Oct 17, 2003)

I think this is Morgoth's work, the curse denied any happiness to Hurin and his descendants. Turin caused chaos and destruction wherever he went, this is but one of many things that went wrong. Finduilas clearly loved Gwindor, but something in Turin made her turn to him, maybe it was the pull of destiny, but I don't think it was the case of failing love between her and Gwindor.


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## Beleg (Nov 4, 2003)

> Is this a failure of love between Finduilas and Gwindor or was it the curse of Morgoth at work?



It was the failure of love between Gwindor and Finduilas. 


Starflower posted:



> I think this is Morgoth's work, the curse denied any happiness to Hurin and his descendants. Turin caused chaos and destruction wherever he went, this is but one of many things that went wrong. Finduilas clearly loved Gwindor, but something in Turin made her turn to him, maybe it was the pull of destiny, but I don't think it was the case of failing love between her and Gwindor.



Finduilas did love Gwindor, but when she saw Turin she felt greater love towards him. 
When Gwindor retuned along with Turin, she pitied him, but her love for him had greatly abated and it had been given to Turin.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 8, 2003)

Beleg is right.Finduilas loved Gwindor.She did love him,but the things changed when she met Turin.This is something different,I mean she made her choice,not Turin.Turin is not responsible for this fact.He did nothing to cause it.Finduilas made her choice and she fell in love.Thus she was now part of Turin's life,which meant that the curse was working on her too.But SHE TOOK THAT DECISION.
The curse of Morgoth started working on her after she fell in love with Turin,not before it.


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## Arvedui (Nov 13, 2005)

There is of course no way of knowing, but isn't there a chance that it was the curse of Morgoth that caused Finuilas to fall in love with Túrin?


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## Ingwë (Nov 14, 2005)

> There is of course no way of knowing, but isn't there a chance that it was the curse of Morgoth that caused Finuilas to fall in love with Túrin?


Melkor is a Vala and a very powerful Vala. I agree that Finduilas did loved Turin Turambar. 
Gwindow was a prince of Nargothrond who was captured by Melkor at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Probably Melkor affected him. THe Dark lord knew that we was Finduilas's elffriend [from boyfriend  ] and that she loved him. But Gwindor escaped and met Turin. Isn't that strange? Gwindor led Turin [hated by Melkor] to Nargothrond and the Man caused some problems. I think it's Melkor's deed. Finduilas contacted Gwindor, who contacted Melkor. And there is also relation between these Elves and Turin. I think that all these things were in Melk's mind.


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