# Is Bilbo really a hero?



## Biffman49 (Oct 15, 2002)

Just a little question to get the thinking juices flowing...

Is Bilbo really a hero in The Hobbit?

There are many good arguments for either answer, and I want to hear them both...


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## Princess Vi (Oct 15, 2002)

well, I think he is and isn't. he made Smaug mad and therefore inderectly caused the destruction of Laketown, and I don't think he should've given the Arkenstone to Bard. on the other hand......he rescued the Dwarves from the Elv's(sp?) prisons and from the giant spiders


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## Carantalath (Oct 15, 2002)

I think he's a hero in a way. I mean, he yelled and woke up the dwarves before they were all taken down to the goblins. That gave Gandalf time to get away. He also saved them from the spiders and helped them out of the Elvenking's house. And he saw the bare spot on Smaug where there was no armor and he tried to make peace between the dwarves and the elves. But, as vigoldenflower said, he also caused the destruction of Laketown and gave away the Arkenstone, when it wasn't really his to give.


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## kohaku (Oct 15, 2002)

its true that not everything bilbo did was heroic, but how boring and unrealistic that would be if he did! that's the way life is, we all make mistakes, and in doing good things sometimes bad things happen. not even heros are flawless. bilbo surely did not intend laketown to be destroyed, and he thought it best for everyone when he gave bard the arkenstone. overall, i say he is a hero for the courage and confidence he gained in his adventures, and for his willingness to stick by the dwarves in the face of danger.


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## Eledhwen (Oct 15, 2002)

*Hmmm!*

Was giving the Arkenstone to Bard the equivalent of giving the secret of nuclear fission to the Russians? - just stirring! What I'm really posting to say is that Bilbo originally had the Arkenstone because he desired it for himself, but then he saw it as the only plausible bargaining chip that would prevent bloodshed. It all became academic, of course, when the real enemy attacked. 

Also, I don't think it was Bilbo's flippancy that caused the dragon to attack Laketown; it was his audacity at just being there. He accidentally gave the town's involvement away when he called himself "barrel-rider", but with no other targets in sight, Smaug would probably have attacked anyway.

It's interesting that Bilbo was called a thief three times in The Hobbit: by Gollum, Smaug and Thorin. This irked him so much that it was not until the Council of Elrond in FotR that he eventually told the truth publickly about how he acquired the Ring.


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## LadyGaladriel (Oct 15, 2002)

Just noticed this  super kool colours 



Ok back to the questions. One of the thing that attracts me back to the hobbit time and time again is that in the begining the Dwarves were all huffy about takjing him and when they all got in trouble dear old bilbo got them out of it. He changed so much and to do that when he hardly had been out the shire is amazing. 


His the englishman gentleman inside all the *nice* people in the world. He shows us that he adapted and changed and although he didn't do it by full sword bared and rushing headlong into battle . He used his mind and individualty.


Bilbo is possible one of my top 10 faveorite peope outta LOTR


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## Arvedui (Oct 17, 2002)

I'd say that giving away the Arkenstone to Bard was one of the most heroic things Bilbo did. He knew that it would really make the dwarves mad, but still, he returned and stayed with the dwarves when it was revealed what he had done. He knew he would get in trouble, but saw this solution as the only one to hinder blodshed.
Apart from that you would have to start from the beginning. Bilbo was not one to jump at the chance to go on adventures. Risky business that makes you late for dinner, or whatever. Still, he went. And allthough he was scared, he usually ended up doing the right thing on a number of occations. He's a hero in book.


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## Confusticated (Oct 17, 2002)

I see no reason to question Bilbo's status as a hero. He was courageous, strong, did things his companions would not dare, and he saved others numerous times.
Bilbo may have indirectely caused the distruction of Lake Town but I rather say it this way: Bilbo contributed to the circumstanced which caused Smaug to attack the town.
Also: I agree with Eledhwen that Smaug probably would have attacked Lake Town anyhow. But who can be sure?

Anyhow, Smaug's attack on Lake Town resulted in the death of Smaug.
Without the death of Smaug where would everyone be? Maybe Bilbo and The dwarves would never have escaped the area. And that is just scratching the surface.


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## Pale King (Oct 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by vigoldenflower _
> *I don't think he should've given the Arkenstone to Bard. *


Giving the Arkenstone to Bard was the _wise_ thing to do. Gandalf heartilly approved of that gesture and Bilbo went even further up in his estimation as a result! By giving Bard the Arkenstone he effectively enabled Bard to break Thorins stubborness and to break the seige at the mountain. Without this gesture, Thorin and co would have sat and starved to death in the mountain!


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## TheDarkElf (Oct 19, 2002)

I think Bilbo was undoubtably a hero. It wasn't that he single handedly defeated the dragon, and he had little part in the Battle of the Five Armies. This doesn't mean he wasn't a hero. The way in which he went from a normal, respectable Hobbit and totally changed was heroic in itself. When you think what he was, and then what he turned out to be (Fighting spiders, saving them from the elves etc) then I think it was pretty heroic, especially risking his friendship with the Dwarves all for peace. Also, if going down that tunnel to speak to Smaug (Who was still greatest of the dragons) wasn't heroic, I don't know what was. 

Remember a hero doesn't just have to be great in a battle like Beorn, but it can be other things, like standing up to friends to do whats right, or risking your own life for others.


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 19, 2002)

Yes,Bilbo definitely was a hero,though he himself was reluctant to become one.He was dragged into this enormous adventure and was very very helpful and I daresay even courageous at times.When Gandalf was gone,the quest would have failed at some points were it not for Bilbo.


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## Theoden (Oct 19, 2002)

I think ithrynluin has it right. Bilbo was a hero in the truest sense of the word. He did not want to go on the journey nor did he want to be a hero. He was a very foolish hobbit to begin with, but when the rubber met the road, Bilbo came through and helped his fellow adventurers. And in the end he did not even want alot of the gold. I think Bilbo was a hero.

-me


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## Eriol (Oct 21, 2002)

Hello all, this is my first post  

To judge the effect of Bilbo's actions, who better than Gandalf (always the 'big picture' guy)? He said that if the dragon was not destroyed, he would probably be used by Sauron in the War of the Ring to terrible effect. (Unfinished Tales). I think that makes Bilbo a GREAT hero, by pinpointing the means of the dragon's destruction (not to mention his safguarding of the Ring), a major character in the history of the end of that Age.


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## Eledhwen (Oct 21, 2002)

*Hello Eriol, and welcome!*

I agree. In the story of the Quest of Erebor in Unfinished Tales, Gandalf's tale of the Dwarves at Bag End says much that is not in The Hobbit (including the story about how come they were there at all), including Thorin's total contempt for Bilbo, which contrasts well with his later heroics. Also, the Elves at Rivendell, whose battle honours were no small thing, held Bilbo in great esteem, as Borimir found out at the Council of Elrond (FotR).


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## Finduilas (Nov 11, 2002)

There was a long and a good discussion about the true hero in LOTR in the LOTR section.I thing we all reached an agreement that the hero or better-the spirit of the book is Sam but the hero of historical point of view is maybe Gullom because,actually,he destroyed the One.
Anyway,the true hero of the Hobitt can be Bilbo and every dwarf as well.I think Bilbo made a lot of important actions and friendships which defined his and all the Middle Earth's future.So I believe he could be the best hero.
If we think of him as a person who had found the ring and took it out from the cave ,we shouldn't forget that the ring wanted it.
It wanted to be found and ...it was.Maybe Bilbo wasn't the most apropriate person or creature but he was the one who had it.
So maybe it's better to think that if Bilbo hadn't found the ring someone else would have found it and this person would have not been as good as Bilbo.
So concerning the fact we know what happened in the end of LOTR(I won't say anything more because someone might not have read it yet)we should admit Bilbo is the hero of Hobitt.


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## falcolite (Nov 12, 2002)

I do firmly believe that Bilbo was the key factor, and hero of the book. Everyone has flaws, even the most perfect and most unlikely people. He submitted his mistakes, as well as did many things to make up for his errors. As for the debate on the Arkenstone, it was for the best. I do not like the fact that the elves and men were trying to claim some of the treasure, but Bilbo saw the oppurtunity he held. It was the _right_ thing to do. Stuck in the cave, after a time, surely Thorin would start questioning the where-abouts of his cherished jewel. Look how mad he was when he learnt that Bilbo had given it away, when they were talking with Bard and Thrainduil. IMO, it would of been way worse, to be stuck in a mountain with him, and Thorin discovering that Bilbo stole it for himself. 
Lets explore what other possibilities Bilbo could of done, in his position, that would of saved bloodshed. Theres not to many that I can think of. 
Bilbo was a hero, without a doubt. If it was by fate, luck, or skill, or all combined, in the end he managed it. Things would of ended quite differently, if it wasn't for the halfling.





> Anyway,the true hero of the Hobitt can be Bilbo and every dwarf as well.



Not to get off topic, but I somehow question Bombur's title as a hero. His intentions were good, and I know that he tried, yet, I cannot seem to remember any element of the story in which he helped out. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## Eledhwen (Nov 13, 2002)

Everyone came to their heroic senses in the battle of the five armies - Bard turned up and even Thorin showed his true self. Bilbo's heroics came from deliberation. He had time to chicken out several times, but didn't.


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## Incánus (Nov 16, 2002)

I think that Bilbo is a hero in the truest sense. He left the comfort of his home endured seemingly impossible trials and dangers overcame them and brought back the boons to his companions and culture. That is the definition of hero to me at least.


For more "hero" talk try here www.jcf.org its a great website with some Tolkien discussion too. Under conversations then wisdom pool.


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