# How did evil stay out of Valinor?



## BalrogRingDestroyer (Dec 29, 2018)

I know that the Kin-slaying was done there and also that Melkor had quite a long time (I'm not sure of the timespan between the creation and the First Age around when Melkor came to Middle Earth.) that even the Undying Lands and the Blessed Realm weren't marred by his evil influence.

I do know, if I recall correctly, that death itself, at least for the non-Elves, was not originally created, as it was in our timeline, as a punishment for evil, but rather as a relief perhaps (the immortality of the Elves was purchased at the price of the tragic memory of evil wrought by Melkor, Sauron, dragons, men, and even other Elves, plus remembering things as they were before they were corrupted.) Thus, if Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, and Gimli were to eventually die of old age in the Blessed Realm, it was the design of Eru rather than due to sin because of the corruption of Melkor.

Not that wickedness didn't make death come sooner, as their evil deeds appeared to have shortened the lifespan of the Numenoreans, making them vulnerable to Sauron's suggestion of going to the undying lands where they would never die (though they were outright told that it was not so.)


More to the point, if Valinor was originally attached to and part of Middle Earth, it seems odd that Mair and Elves that lived there wouldn't end up fading in the end just as they would if they'd stayed in Middle Earth. 

It appears that Middle Earth got the worst of the malice of Melkor, but how did Valinor and the Undying Realm fare?


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## Miguel (Dec 29, 2018)

_*Gloom Weaver*_ lived in Aman tho, just like that spider under your bed.


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## Ithilethiel (Jan 25, 2019)

Miguel said:


> _*Gloom Weaver*_ lived in Aman tho, just like that spider under your bed.


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## Miguel (Jan 25, 2019)

Ithilethiel said:


>


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## BalrogRingDestroyer (Feb 3, 2019)

Please be serious folks. What kept evil and immorality from spreading into Valinor and turning it bad? If the Elves could kill their own kin in the Blessed Realm to try and go after Morgoth, it stands to reason that it was possible for evil to happen in Valinor itself.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 4, 2019)

Miguel _was_ being serious (if in his own unique way; cue obligatory !).

I'm not sure what you're asking here -- have you forgotten that Melkor wounded the Two Tress, the sap of which Ungoliant then consumed? And that she then drained and poisoned the Wells of Varda? If that were not evil enough, there is the first bloodspilling in Valinor, with the murder of Finwe.

After the removal of Valinor from the Circles of the World, and the thrusting of Melkor into the Outer Darkness, he would have no access to Arda.

And Sauron would not dare enter Valinor.


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## Miguel (Feb 4, 2019)

What i'm trying to say is that Ungoliant was a great evil, and yet she dwelt in the "Blessed Realm", how?. Devouring light or Avathar was not so "Blessed"?.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 4, 2019)

I agree Miguel, somehow Ungoliant was there even though she was evil. I think what OP was asking was how evil stays out when elves could choose to be evil anywhere whether they live in Middle Earth or Valinor. 

I think that yes, there could be in Valinor but only if someone among the elves decided to be evil. Valinor was cutoff from the rest of the world so the Valar weren't letting just anyone in. The elves, knowing that they had free will and were living in paradise until the end of time, they had no reason to be evil/greedy. They basically had everything they ever wanted, lived with the Valar, who loved them dearly, and lived in peace together away from the evils of Middle Earth. So while it's possible for evil because they had free will to choose how to live their lives, it's unlikely in my opinion unless Melkor somehow came back, which wasn't going to happen until the end.



> More to the point, if Valinor was originally attached to and part of Middle Earth, it seems odd that Maiar and Elves that lived there wouldn't end up fading in the end just as they would if they'd stayed in Middle Earth.



Maiar never faded, they were of the same race, just lesser beings. Only elves would fade and that's only if they remained in ME and didn't go West.

p.s. feel free to not be 100% serious, we're here to discuss our favorite professor's work but that includes having a bit of fun in between


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## Miguel (Feb 4, 2019)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I think what OP was asking was how evil stays out when elves could choose to be evil anywhere whether they live in Middle Earth or Valinor



Well, Middle-Earth was still a marred land even though Melko was captive, slowly healing but definitely marred with lots of problems. Valinor was sacred, there was no Evil there until he was allowed to walk upon its gardens.



> But the Noldor took delight in the hidden knowledge that he could reveal to them; and some hearkened to words that it would have been better for them never to have heard





> Bitterly did the Noldor atone for the folly of their open ears in the days that followed after





> And when Melkor saw that these lies were smouldering, and that pride and anger were awake among the Noldor, he spoke to them concerning weapons; and in that time the Noldor began the smithying of swords and axes and spears. Shields also they made displaying the tokens of many houses and kindreds that vied one with another; and these only they wore abroad, and of other weapons they did not speak, for each believed that he alone had received the warning


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