# War OR  Peace?



## Amarië (Dec 1, 2003)

Imagine the first age of Arda was never subject to the corruption of Morgoth, and all things befell as Iluvatar had at first intended, and there was complete peace in Middle Earth, would you as one of the firstborn:

* Rather live in a time of peace until the world is broken

OR

* Live as things are written in the Silmarillion?

Feel free to discuss your choices...
~A~


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## Celebthôl (Dec 1, 2003)

As the Sil was written:

1) Being totally at peace for millions of years would get boring i think. . .

2) How do you know that what happened in the Sil is what Ilúvatar intended?


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## Amarië (Dec 1, 2003)

I said that if none of the evil in the Sil had happened, then things would be as he intended... 
Make sense? You know what i mean!!


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## Inderjit S (Dec 1, 2003)

I think it is Celebthol states, Arda Marred would be an inherent part of Eru's plan. Arda couldn't exist without evil, since evil was a part of it from the start. (Melkor's discord.)

What if Melkor didn't rebel? Well, I don't know the answer to that and I think such a drastic change to the mytholgy would be too wide of the mark.


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## Celebthôl (Dec 1, 2003)

Exactly, how would they know they were living in peace if they didnt know what evil was or what it felt like?

My belief is that as Eru was everything he was also bad/evil etc, this was past into the Melkor and many of the Maiar, it had to go somewhere i believe. Bleh i know what i mean  its hard to explain and im tired. . .


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## Lantarion (Dec 1, 2003)

Great point aobut the inherent Discord of Melkor, Inder.


> _Originally posted by Celebthôl_
> 1) Being totally at peace for millions of years would get boring i think. . .


Probably the primary reason why mankind has always had such turbulent times..


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## Rangerdave (Dec 1, 2003)

Then Ilúvatar spoke, and he said: 'Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.'





RD


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## Gil-Galad (Dec 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Inderjit S _
> *I think it is Celebthol states, Arda Marred would be an inherent part of Eru's plan. Arda couldn't exist without evil, since evil was a part of it from the start. (Melkor's discord.)
> 
> What if Melkor didn't rebel? Well, I don't know the answer to that and I think such a drastic change to the mytholgy would be too wide of the mark. *


Indeed.
Perfection is impossible.
But if I had the chance the chance to choose I would prefer everyhing to be as it was writtten in The Silmarillion.


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## Celebthôl (Dec 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *Indeed.
> Perfection is impossible.
> But if I had the chance the chance to choose I would prefer everyhing to be as it was writtten in The Silmarillion. *



Define perfection for me....(what you take perfection to mean)


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## Húrin Thalion (Dec 2, 2003)

Well, there are two ways to see this, in my opinion. It would be "funnier" to live through a peaceful Silmarillion, but reading about it... No, I don't think so. 

From: Of the Sindar


> Of the long years of peace that followed after the coming of Denethor there is little tale.



And:



> But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said...



Måns


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## Helcaraxë (Dec 2, 2003)

As Blaise Pascal said, our true nature lies in motion. I agree with Ind about the inherent discord, but I kinda like action and battle. That is, as long as it doesn't harm trees. ALL TREE-HARMERS SHALL SUFFER MY WRATH!!!!!!!!. I like trees. That's why I like Ents. Yes, yes, I know I'm insane. Tell me something new. 

--MB


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## Curufinwe (Dec 3, 2003)

I would rather have a brutal reality than one which I would not appreciate.


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## Thorondor_ (Sep 14, 2005)

> Rather live in a time of peace until the world is broken
> OR
> * Live as things are written in the Silmarillion?


Since this is about personal choices, I would go with living in peace. There isn't much benefit from a life lived in fear, esspecially when you know you _have _to retreat to Aman in the long run. There are too many challenges to have a nice life (or to maintain your fundamental goodness), arising from the marring of Arda, to have the time to experience and enhance the beauty of creation.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 14, 2005)

It's a difficult choice. It's easy to say that a perfect life would be boring, and that we would prefer to live exactly how the Silmarillion played out, because we know how things transpired and know that Good ultimately prevails. But if one were given a life amidst war and grief, the horrors imposed upon Beleriand by Morgoth and Sauron, would one honestly choose that? But then again, boredom with goodness seems to be an essential part of humans.


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## Gothmog (Sep 15, 2005)

As this question is about the firstborn, let us look at what is shown in the Sil. There are three clans of Eldar, the Vanyar, the Teleri and the Noldor. Of these the ones that seem to be closest to how Eru intended his children to be are the Vanyar. When they went to Aman they moved closer to the Valar and were happy to remain at their feet singing the praises of the Valar and Eru. Next closest are the Teleri, While they did not care to live fully in the light of the Trees, they too were happy to live in peace on the shores of Aman. It was only the Noldor who grew bored with the peace of the Valar and became restless. It was also only the Noldor that Melkor sought to sway while he was in Aman.

So while it is my view that Eru either hoped for or actually intended that there be discord in the Music


> For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.


Had there not been the discord of Melkor then all the firstborn would have been of like mind with the Vanyar and the Teleri and lived quite happily in bliss bringing forth such beauty as Eru made them capable of. This would also hold true of the Secondborn though it is hard to imagine Men living in peace for more than two days at a time.

For myself I think that I would prefer the peaceful option so as to be able to fully explore the beauty of the whole of Arda through its life rather than just the small part of Aman.

It would make for dull reading though.


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