# Where did the Nazgul go?



## Odin (Feb 4, 2013)

When Isildur cut the Ring off Sauron's hand, the Dark Lord's body crumbled and his spirit fled. But what happened to the Nazgul?

The ringwraiths survived, there's no doubt about that, but where did they go with their master defeated?


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## Bucky (Feb 5, 2013)

Back East.

BTW: Read the books...

It's unclear whether Sauron was defeated & vanquished _before_ Isildor cut the Ring from Sauron's body.

See 'The Council of Elrond'.


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## Odin (Feb 6, 2013)

Bucky said:


> Back East.
> 
> BTW: Read the books...
> 
> ...



I have read the books, thank you very much.

Why didn't the Last Alliance hunt down the Nine and finish them? It seems careless on their part to allow Sauron's greatest servants to escape and roam free.


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## HLGStrider (Feb 6, 2013)

The Last Alliance's victory was very costly. The death of Elendil and his sons weakened the kingdom and there was a wedge driven between the kings of Arnor and the kings of Gondor. I am certain that the Elves were also reeling from the loss of many great heroes and leaders and they probably thought it was time to look to their own, so to speak. 

Also, and this is just my impression, I get the feeling that in the event of such a loss and the sudden weakening of their master's sway, the Ringwraiths would've been in a position of weakness that would've led to them going into hiding. We are told that uncloaked and unhorsed they are weak (after Elrond drowns them in the flood they simply disappear and appear again a good deal later. It isn't as if they just pulled themselves out of the river downstream and got back on their feet) and I would imagine they are little more than spirits at this point. I am not certain exactly how one tracks a spirit with an army (I was under the impression that took a couple of hunky guys in a muscle car. . .), and I doubt that this would've been a high priority at a time when the kingdoms of men were attempting to recover and being led by literal boys (Isildur's surviving son was very young. I'm not completely sure about Anarion's but I doubt he was exactly a "man ripe for the kingship" either, especially considering that an argument could be made that the kingdom was never intended to be split in two so his cousin was the rightful heir to both Arnor and Gondor.).


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## Bucky (Feb 7, 2013)

There was no need to 'hunt down the nazgul'..

the stand or fall with their master....

The books say plainly that they went into shadow after Sauron fell.


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## HLGStrider (Feb 7, 2013)

Bucky said:


> The books say plainly that they went into shadow after Sauron fell.



I honestly don't remember this exact line, but it sounds like something I've heard before so I believe you that it is there. I guess I came away with the impression that they would've been disembodied and weak (sort of smoke in the wind like) but not completely undone since as long as the Ring exists they are bound to it (though we did see one instance of one being undone before the ring's destruction when Eowyn and Merry took out the Witch King, so I guess that the "they last as long as the ring lasts" rule is not absolute). Honestly, even with your provided quote, I'm not certain what going into shadow would entail. Was there a specific place where they lay, sentient but impotent, while they waited or were they scattered about Middle Earth as the before mentioned smoke? 

It does make you wonder, however, how Saruman could convince so many people that Sauron was not active and alive when for so long when the Witch King was off and on active throughout much of the pre-War of the Ring history. If the Nazgul were tied to his existence and could not have form without him, then wouldn't the fact that he (the Witch King, not Sauron) was at various points openly at war with various kings of men, even directly challenging one to single combat, kind of a clue that Sauron was out there and regaining power? Were they simply not aware of who he was? Or were they not privy to the information that he and Sauron were so linked?


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## Valandil (Feb 8, 2013)

Odin said:


> :
> :
> Why didn't the Last Alliance hunt down the Nine and finish them? It seems careless on their part to allow Sauron's greatest servants to escape and roam free.



I don't know if they could have hunted them down if they'd wanted to. How does one hunt down a wraith?

And then... how to finish them?


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## Valandil (Feb 8, 2013)

HLGStrider said:


> :
> :
> ... and I doubt that this would've been a high priority at a time when the kingdoms of men were attempting to recover and being led by literal boys (Isildur's surviving son was very young. I'm not completely sure about Anarion's but I doubt he was exactly a "man ripe for the kingship" either, especially considering that an argument could be made that the kingdom was never intended to be split in two so his cousin was the rightful heir to both Arnor and Gondor.).



As an aside, Meneldil, son of Anarion, was well over 100 years old when Isildur left him in charge of the South Kingdom of Gondor (I think born in 3318 SA, making him... 125? at that time). Right on par with the ages of Isildur's three older sons. Isildur's fourth son, Valandil, we might today term "an accident" - he was born much later than the rest - at Rivendell, soon after Isildur fled north. Valandil would have been 12-14 when Narsil was delivered to him at Rivendell in 3 Third Age, and he did not become King of Arnor until year 10 of the Third Age.

Isildur's older sons were well into marrying age for men of their line (the early Kings of Arnor all had their son who succeeded them between age 90 and 98 - I think these boys were all between 100 and 145). It is presumed that they had not married and had no sons. However - it is possible that they had, and that these sons claims were bypassed for that of Valandil - the one surviving son of Isildur - perhaps a "baby uncle" to potential nephews.


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## Valandil (Feb 8, 2013)

Checked - oldest son of Isildur was 144, second 104, third 64 - at time of Gladden Fields. The oldest might have had elder children in the 50's or 60's, the second maybe in their teens (like Valandil) - the third at least, probably a bachelor.

This also means that there was only 51 years between the third and fourth sons. Maybe even some un-named daughters in there too.

Those Numenoreans were young for a long time!


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## HLGStrider (Feb 8, 2013)

But was the original intention for Gondor and Arnor to remain split or was the plan for eventually both to be united under Isildur after the passing of Elendil? I am curious because it makes a difference whether Meneldil was a man prepared from birth to rule after his father or a man prepared from birth to serve under first his uncle and then his cousins. Obviously Valandil (Happy accident or not) was simply too young to be prepared for the kingship, but even if his age allowed him to rule, had Meneldil been raised to be a king?

I suppose it doesn't matter, but either way his ascent to the throne was unexpected (his father and uncle were hardly past their prime and it is certain that had it not been for their violent deaths they would've had the opportunity to rule for many years before Meneldil would've had to replace either of them.), so I guess my point was that both kingdoms were still in transition and so in a point of possible disorder.


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## Valandil (Feb 8, 2013)

I guess it's hard to say, because that point is so lost to history. Were they separate kingdoms before the Last Alliance, or one joint kingdom under Elendil? What exactly was Isildur's intent when he left Meneldil at Osgiliath?

These questions resurfaced almost 2000 years later, when Arvedui tried to make the case that he should be King of Gondor, after the death of his father-in-law, King Ondoher - along with Ondoher's sons. Arvedui, at least, claimed that the intent was NOT for the kingdoms to be ever divided - and that Isildur had left Meneldil "in charge" of Gondor, rather than making him sole ruler there. And in fact - the concept of the High Kings being those in the line of Arnor (descendants of the elder brother Isildur, while Anarion's descendants ruled in Gondor) bears out this position.


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## PaigeSinclaire88 (Dec 16, 2016)

Bucky said:


> There was no need to 'hunt down the nazgul'..
> 
> the stand or fall with their master....
> 
> The books say plainly that they went into shadow after Sauron fell.




Thats what I thought, again it wasn't explicitly said I think it was implied that when the evil of Sauron was defeated most of the evil being tied to the ring were also destroyed.


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