# Olorin in the War of Wrath



## Celebithil (Mar 6, 2003)

Is it possible that Olorin took part in the War of Wrath when Morgoth was overthrown. I haven't read anything about this so far and was wondering if anyone had any ideas. Sorry if it has been brought up before.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 6, 2003)

There is no proof, but I think it's very unlikely for some reason.

At the council in Valinor (Unfinished Tales, The Istari), Olórin says that he is afraid of Sauron and thus unwilling to go to Middle Earth as one of the Istari. I'm assuming he was even more terrified of Melkor, though this is just a far-fetched explanation.


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## spirit (Mar 7, 2003)

was he...?


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## Walter (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebithil _
> *Is it possible that Olorin took part in the War of Wrath when Morgoth was overthrown. I haven't read anything about this so far and was wondering if anyone had any ideas. Sorry if it has been brought up before. *


 We will never know, I'm afraid...


> To the overthrow of Morgoth he sent his herald Eönwë. To the defeat of Sauron would he not then send some lesser (but mighty) spirit of the angelic people, one coëval and equal, doubtless, with Sauron in their beginnings, but not more? Olórin was his name. _But of Olórin we shall never know more than he revealed in Gandalf._
> 
> From: UT - The Istari (my italics)


On another sidenote: Gandalf's history as a Maia had been a rather late development, invented much later than the War of Wrath and the Great Battle. 

The name Olórin first appears in the draft for "The Window on the West" ((_...[The name of my youth in the West is forgotten >] [Olorion >] Olorin I was in my youth that is forgotten;..._). Originally - in _The Hobbit_ - Tolkien had "borrowed" Gandalf's name from the Edda (_gand-alfr_) and probably interpreted it to be an "Elf with a wand" or a "mere" Wizard.


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## Inderjit S (Mar 7, 2003)

I think it is mentioned in a HoME text that he had visited M-E before his incarnation into a Istari.


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## Gil-Galad (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *There is no proof, but I think it's very unlikely for some reason.
> 
> At the council in Valinor (Unfinished Tales, The Istari), Olórin says that he is afraid of Sauron and thus unwilling to go to Middle Earth as one of the Istari. I'm assuming he was even more terrified of Melkor, though this is just a far-fetched explanation. *


 I can't believe that he doesnot take part in the War of Wrath.That was the war of the Gods so he should take part in it.No matter whether he is terrified he has to fight,cause ME's future depends on every Vala or Maia participation in the war


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## Walter (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Inderjit S _
> *I think it is mentioned in a HoME text that he had visited M-E before his incarnation into a Istari. *


 Yes, it is briefly mentioned in the essay about Glorfindel in the "Last Writings":


> That Olorin, as was possible for one of the Maiar, had already visited Middle-earth and had become acquainted not only with the Sindarin Elves and others deeper in Middle-earth, but also with Men, is likely, but nothing is [> has yet been] said of this.


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## Walter (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> I can't believe that he doesnot take part in the War of Wrath.


But how could he have taken part when he was not yet invented?


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## Gil-Galad (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Walter _
> *But how could he have taken part when he was not yet invented?  *


...........tsuk,tsuk,tsuk............forget what I wrote in the previous post.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *I can't believe that he doesnot take part in the War of Wrath.That was the war of the Gods so he should take part in it.No matter whether he is terrified he has to fight,cause ME's future depends on every Vala or Maia participation in the war *



Why should that be a reason for his participation?

By your logic, EVERY SINGLE Vala, Maia, Elf...should have participated in the WoW, since the well-being of Middle Earth was in question.


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## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

While I think he would be afraid of Morgoth he had the whole army of the Valar to back him up (assuming he went of course) while when he was sent to oppose Sauron there were only 5 Istari sent and only 3 seemed to even help at all.


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