# Is Gandalf Immortal?



## HarryTheWhite (Nov 4, 2016)

I have yet another question that needs answering, which is the following: What would happen if Gandalf were to die again (after being ressurected as Gandalf the White)? It is said in the films (KILL ME FOR I HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS) that Gandalf was sent back "until my task is done". At the point where the Witch King of Angmar is about to kill Gandald (Inevitable considering his staff was broken); What would happen if he had been killed? And what was his task? We are lead to believe that it was to restore the dominion of men in Middle Earth however, that would mean that Gandalf would constantly be brought back to Middle Earth until it was done, which seems unlikely due to many factors, factors such as Frodo and Sam not destroying the ring. It would seem pointless for external forces that put Gandalf onto Middle Earth to continue to do so if all had failed. 

Again my knowledge is limited due to not reading the books. This was surpossed to be a short post but I think I may have got carried away. Any comments that can shed some light on this are much appreciated as allways.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Nov 4, 2016)

I'd assume that as long as he died doing his mission, as he had the first time, then his spirit would return to the undying lands. As a maiar, Gandalf's spirit was immortal. The mission of the wizards/Istari, to put it simply, were to rally the people of Middle Earth to rise up against Sauron.

There's a good essay on the Istari (wizards) here.


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## Deleted member 12094 (Nov 6, 2016)

> At the point where the Witch King of Angmar is about to kill Gandalf (Inevitable considering his staff was broken); What would happen if he had been killed?


This scene was movie-nonsense, once again. In"reality", the Witch King of Angmar was stopped at the broken city gate by Gandalf so he could not enter the city.
Still while he was Gandalf the Grey, he had pushed back all Black Riders together from Weathertop (this does not appear in the movie). As Gandalf the White, he had become more powerful still. The Nazgûl could not defeat him by then.


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## Ingolmin (Nov 27, 2016)

Gandalf the White could not die so easily as he was immortal but he could meet in a battle with his greatest opponent Sauron. He could only be defeated by someone of his stature(Maiar) or by someone(of the Valar) greater to him. The task of Gandalf was to defeat Sauron and restore the Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor by proper strategy and not using his magical powers or rule over men or elves. His only purpose was to guide them. The Witch King had not the power to defeat Gandalf the White. You are talking about the movie scene, in the book the staff of Gandalf was not broken. Also PJ shows things contrary to the book for the entertainment of the people.


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## OfRhosgobel (Dec 20, 2016)

Merroe said:


> This scene was movie-nonsense, once again. In"reality", the Witch King of Angmar was stopped at the broken city gate by Gandalf so he could not enter the city.
> Still while he was Gandalf the Grey, he had pushed back all Black Riders together from Weathertop (this does not appear in the movie). As Gandalf the White, he had become more powerful still. The Nazgûl could not defeat him by then.




Quite right! That scene was a PJ invention. Gandalf the Grey fought off multiple nazghul on weathertop including the witch king. As gandalf the white he had become even more powerful and blessed. The physical form of Gandalf is not immortal but his spirit is. It's not likely that if he had sustained enough injury to kill off his physical form once again that the Valar would have sent his spirit back once more to middle-earth.

P.S. Please read the books...lol


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## PaigeSinclaire88 (Dec 22, 2016)

I agree, Gandalf the white could not die. But one could do mental gymnastics and say that Gandalf the grey IS Gandalf the white, that they are not two different being, just that when he's "reborn" that Gandalf is immortal. I could be wrong but from the reading, that was how I saw it.


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## psycho60 (Dec 27, 2016)

OfRhosgobel said:


> Quite right! That scene was a PJ invention. Gandalf the Grey fought off multiple nazghul on weathertop including the witch king. As gandalf the white he had become even more powerful and blessed. The physical form of Gandalf is not immortal but his spirit is. It's not likely that if he had sustained enough injury to kill off his physical form once again that the Valar would have sent his spirit back once more to middle-earth.
> 
> P.S. Please read the books...lol



If I remember correctly from Tolkien's letters, it was Eru who sent Gandalf back not the Valar. Also in regards to GtG fighting off multiple Nazgul, at that point the Nine were far away from Sauron and he had not moved forward with open war. Once the assault on Gondor begins, the Nazgul emerge with enhanced powers compared to when they fought in Eriador. Ultimately, we don't know how the throw-down between the Witch-King and GtW would have played out.


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## Matthew Bailey (Dec 28, 2016)

Gandalf was/is immortal in the true sense of the word for Ëa.

Gandalf is one of the Ainur, born of the thoughts of Eru/Ilúvatar.

The body he wore in Middle-earth (and, in _The Silmarillion_, "wear" is exactly how Tolkien describes the bodies of the Ainur) was that of a semi-mortal, in that it aged very slowly, if at all, and that it could, like the Eldar/Elves, be killed by violence.

But Gandalf, Olórin, has the ability (at least within Valinor) of creating a new body (set of clothing) of his own will, out of the substance of his Fëa or spirit.

Gandalf the White is simply a "New set of Clothing" for Olórin the Maia. His old clothes, "Gandalf the Grey" were ruined in the fight with the Balrog, and Eru allowed him to return to Middle-earth in a new set of clothing, which he would have had in Valinor at any rate.

MB


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## OfRhosgobel (Jan 3, 2017)

psycho60 said:


> If I remember correctly from Tolkien's letters, it was Eru who sent Gandalf back not the Valar. Also in regards to GtG fighting off multiple Nazgul, at that point the Nine were far away from Sauron and he had not moved forward with open war. Once the assault on Gondor begins, the Nazgul emerge with enhanced powers compared to when they fought in Eriador. Ultimately, we don't know how the throw-down between the Witch-King and GtW would have played out.



Where is it said that the Nazgul are stronger closer to Sauron? Or during the war of the ring?


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