# From 'Westernese' to 'Rangers'?



## pgt (Aug 5, 2003)

I've noticed that essentially the same race appears to be referred to differently at various junctures and sometimes (I think) interchangeably. Can someone help clarify this:

1) Men of Westernese or Men of the West
2) Later took Numenor and were known as Numenoreans.
3) Later referred to as 'The Faithful'(?)
4) Later referred to as Dunedain sometime around there ruling years in Arnor/Gondor
5) Eventually some leftover dudes from the North were simply referred to as Rangers.

These are all pretty much the same folks over time right? Westernese/Numenoreans/Dunedain/Rangers (albeit w/ various intermixing w/ other folks over time I presume)

And where exactly does the term 'Dunedain' come from?

thanks,
-T


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## Flammifer (Aug 5, 2003)

pgt, you are spot on with most of your inferences!

- The Men of Westernesse are the the Men of the West, who dwelt in the Land of Numenor in sight of Tol Eressea as a reward from Iluvatar for their valour in the fight against Morgoth. The Men of the West, the Numeoreans, sailed often to Middle-earth because they weren't allowed to sail west in case they tried to set foot upon/assail Eressea, the home of the Elves, because they might want immortality.

ANYWAY, Sauron at this time was arisen again in Middle-earth, and the King of Numenor, Ar-Pharazon, who also claimed lordship over Middle-earth, sailed to Middle-earth and challenged Sauron's armies. Sauron's armies deserted him when they saw all the kick-ass ships of the Numenoreans, and Sauron was humbled and taken prisoner back to Numenor.

By his cunning Sauron convinced Ar-Pharazon to assail Eressea, and when the King set foot upon its shores, the Valar called upon Iluvatar and he caused Numenor to be swallowed up by the sea, and the World became bent, and the realms of Valinor and Eressea were hidden forever beyond the Circles of the World.

MEANWHILE, the 'Faithful' Numenoreans who were led by Elendil the Tall and his two sons, Isildur and Anarion, didn't go with their King to attack Eressea, but escaped with the palantiri, a seedling of the White Tree and some other cool stuff (which I think included _athelas_). They sailed to Middle-earth, and set up the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor, and blah blah blah they got attacked by Sauron (who barely survived the Drowning of Numenor).

ANYWAY, the Numenoreans had always been referred to as the Dunedain, it's the translation of "Numenoreans" in the Grey-elven speech, which I think is Sindarin.

Therefore the two kinds of Dunedain were referred two as the Dunedain of Arnor and the Dunedain of Gondor. The Dunedain dwindled as they mingled with lesser races of Men, and so eventually became a wandering people, known as the Rangers of the North eventually, but they really were the remnant of the Dunedain of Arnor.

*SO! :*

Men of Westernesse = Men of the West = Numenoreans = Dunedain = Remnant of the Numenoreans = the Faithful = the Dunedain of Arnor and Gondor.

Whoo! There we go! I'm sure that most of that stuff was quite unnecessarry but I started writing and felt compelled to finish it! I'm pretty sure that answers all your questions! Sorry about the long answer as I'm sure you knew most of it already!


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## Beleg (Aug 5, 2003)

Yes, Numenoreans are the Men of Westernesse, that is Elenna, Numenor. Dunedain was the Sindarin name of the Numenoreans meaning 'Edain of the West'. [They consisted of the threew tribes of Edain, Elf-friend of the First age namely House of Boer, House of Hador and the Haladin.] 

Note that the Dunedain of the North always remained a Pure folk and probably didn't mix around with other men of lesser lineage, that is specially true of the royal Lineage. But in Gondor, In south due to a greater population, Dunedain inter-married and their pure line became mingled with men of lesser blood. 

There is a difference between 'the faithful' and 'Dunedain.'

Becuase In Akallabeth 'Dunedain' is reffered to the Numenorean people as a whole and the faithful are called the 'Elendili'. 
But later in Middle-Earth in the third age, all 'the faithful' were called the Dunedain because they were the last remnants of the Men Of Westernesse, aside from some black Numenoreans and the early cosairs of Umbar. 
Thus all the faithful are Dunedain but not all the Dunedain are faithful. 
The Rangers were the remnants of the Northern Dunedain of the Third Age. 




> This was the beginning of that people that in the Grey-elven speech are called the Dúnedain: the Númenóreans, Kings among Men.



*Akallabeth, Silmarillion*

Presumebly the Name Duendain was given to the people of three houses of Edain by the Elves.


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## pgt (Aug 5, 2003)

Thanks to both for the sanity check!

-T

PS: On a lighter note - Considering all their faithful and loyal subjects were dead and gone - I figure the northern Rangers didn't have much choice but to stay pure - or hang w/ the folks at Bree.  (something about the description of Bree and it's inhabitants didnt' make me figure it as a likely place to find prospective mates of either gender were I a young single Dunedain... ;o)


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## Beleg (Aug 5, 2003)

> (something about the description of Bree and it's inhabitants didnt' make me figure it as a likely place to find prospective mates of either gender were I a young single Dunedain... ;o)



Yeah, the Rangers weren't necessarily loved in Bree, so I doubt that a Breelander would like to marry his lass to a weird ranger.


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## Flammifer (Aug 5, 2003)

Haha yes true Beleg, and thanks for the correction!


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## Lantarion (Aug 5, 2003)

Wow, good research, people! 
I'd just like to add a little, because it'll gnaw at me if I don't add it:


> *From FotR: Many Meetings*
> 'And why do you call him Dúnadan?' asked Frodo.
> '_The_ Dúnadan,' said Bilbo. 'He is often called that here. But I thought you knew enough Elvish to know _dún-adan_: Man of the West, Númenórean. But this is not the time for lessons!'


_Dún_, 'west', [e.g. in _Adunakhor_], _adan_, 'man' [e.g. Quenya _atan_, 'man'; _Atani_, 'Men, the Aftercomers']. 

The Quenya form of 'Dúnadan' would probably be _Andatan_ or _Andúatan_, or even _Númenatan_.


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## Flammifer (Aug 5, 2003)

Yes, well done too Lantarion, I forgot about that, even though I've read the chapters in Rivendell more than any other part of LOTR!


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## jimmyboy (Aug 8, 2003)

> Sauron (who barely survived the Drowning of Numenor).


He didn't. The Sil says that his body (fair to the eye at that time) had perished with the fall of Numenor. However, his spirit returned back to Middle-earth, and if I remember correctly, he was then no longer able to take a fair form again.

I believe Elrond had a great influence on keeping some of the Dunedain bloodlines preserved and unmingled. He was the caretaker of the heirs of the kings, including Aragorn, and he was considered the greatest lore-master in M-E, and so he presumably was able to let each generation know who they were, and why it was necessary for them to stay pure, and to stay true to what they knew was right.


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## Flammifer (Aug 8, 2003)

> He didn't. The Sil says that his body (fair to the eye at that time) had perished with the fall of Numenor. However, his spirit returned back to Middle-earth, and if I remember correctly, he was then no longer able to take a fair form again.



Yeah sorry jimmyboy what I should have said was that Sauron's body didn't survive but his spirit fled, and yes you're right that he could no longer take the form of anything fair again after the Drowning. Hmm.......my sum-up seems to be fraught with errors! Bah!


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