# Confused on M.E. maps...need help



## RangerStryder (Oct 12, 2008)

Something is bothering me about the map of Middle Earth (and probably never done enough so now I'm asking for help.) and the thing that I really want to know is what happen to M.E. when Beleriand sunk.

I keep seeing the Map of Beleriand and Map of Middle Earth in 3rd age.

1. Is the map of M.E. south of map of Beleriand?

2. If Beleriand sunk what happen to all the population? Did they settle southwards (or somewhere) to present M.E.?

3. Is there a land north of Forodwaith?

4. Is Beleriand and M.E. are 1 in the 1st age?

5. I know that the sinking of Beleriand took a while unlike Numenor but I would wanna know what happen to the ice passage that Turgon used going back to M.E. from undying land and is that still usable vice versa when Beleriand still standing.

(I'll add if more question comes up)

Thanx for the possible reply.


----------



## chrysophalax (Oct 12, 2008)

Whew! Lots of questions there, but fortunately some answers too.

Ok, Middle Earth as we know it from LotR lies east of where Beleriand was.

I assume that when Beleriand was broken, the remaining population perished.

North of the Forodwaith lies nothing but wasteland as far as I can tell. Not having read the histories, I'm not sure if something was written there about that particular patch of land.

Yes

The Grinding Ice or Helcaraxe no longer exists.

You may want to try googling The Encyclopedia of Arda. There you'll find out a little about a lot and they have quite good maps as well. Happy Hunting!


----------



## Gordis (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes, Middle Earth as we know it from LotR indeed lies east of where Beleriand was.

Here on Fonstad's First age map you can see both the Blue Mountains (Ered Luin) and the Misty mountains (Hithaeglir). Beleriand was west of the Blue Mountains. In Eriador, between the two mountain chains, only Lake Evendim is recognizable. In the Sount of Eriador note "the Southern forest" - I think the same where Bombadil once dwelt. In the Third Age what remained of it was the Old Forest. Note also Greenwood and the Great River (Anduin) east of Hithaeglir.

First Age

And here is the Second Age map - there is little left of the lands west of the Blue Mountains (only Forlindon and Harlindon).
Second Age


----------



## Eledhwen (Oct 12, 2008)

Another topographical point that appears on both maps is Himring, which is an island in the later map of Middle-earth.


----------



## RangerStryder (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for the replies....esp. the map Gordis provided in his post, it really helps a lot.


----------



## RangerStryder (Oct 15, 2008)

To Gordis and all,

I bought the Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad last night. A great book and now everything is clear to me (Im enjoying all the maps)....again thanx for all the help.

1 question though....are the mountains of Himring (1st age) = island of Himling (2nd age)?


----------



## Eledhwen (Oct 15, 2008)

RangerStryder said:


> 1 question though....are the mountains of Himring (1st age) = island of Himling (2nd age)?


According to Wikipedia, "Himling" is an error introduced by Christopher Tolkien. I'm not convinced by the argument that the island did not exist because it was not on Tolkien's original maps, because he was quite happy to use Christopher's maps, ignoring or incorporating any variations from his own.


----------

