# Favorite Force of Evil!



## Hobbit-queen (Oct 3, 2004)

If you could be somthing truely evil from LoTRs, who or what would it be?
My favorite would have to be Gollum. What's yours?

Always,
Hobbit-queen


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## baragund (Oct 4, 2004)

HQ, I think there would be some around here who would debate you on whether or not Gollum was evil. It could be argued he was a tortured pawn, a victim or even the true hero of LOTR.

Nevertheless, my favorite force of evil is the Mouth of Sauron!  He is just soooo deliciously badddd during his brief appearance. And he does such a good job taking the wind out of everybody's sails (except Aragorn and Gandalf) at the Black Gates.

It's one of my favorite passages of the book.


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## Astaldo (Oct 4, 2004)

baragund said:


> HQ, I think there would be some around here who would debate you on whether or not Gollum was evil. It could be argued he was a tortured pawn, a victim or even the true hero of LOTR.


Yes I think that there would be no conclusion. Anyway I would like to be Melkor. The greatest of all.


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## Hobbit-queen (Oct 4, 2004)

Okay people, let me make this a little clearer.

Gollum, in my eyes, is pure evil. Gollum is the soul tortured and turned by the ring. Smeogal on the other hand is the pitiful and honest side to the "Gollum Character". The "Gollum Character" is neither evil nor good. His is somehow twisted and destraught. You can't really place a label on him at all.
Gollum just happens to be my favorite character. This is why.
1) He makes me laugh  
2) He makes me want to wring his neck  
3) He makes me want to take him in my arms and cry  
4) He makes me want to feed him to Shelob  
5) He has so many personalities it makes me want to explode  

Those are the reasons why I like Gollum so much. Well, I love to feel pity for him, and I love to hate him all at the same time.

Always,
Hobbit-queen


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## e.Blackstar (Oct 4, 2004)

baragund said:


> Nevertheless, my favorite force of evil is the Mouth of Sauron!  He is just soooo deliciously badddd during his brief appearance. And he does such a good job taking the wind out of everybody's sails (except Aragorn and Gandalf) at the Black Gates.



Indeed..he's so freakishly great!


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## baragund (Oct 5, 2004)

HQ, Gollum is indeed all of those things you described. So how can you say he is "pure evil"? I don't think you would want to take something that is purely evil into your arms nor would it make you laugh. Perhaps you could say "the Ring's influence on Gollum" was pure evil?

There is a looooooong thread around here somewhere entitled "Is Gollum the True Hero of LOTR?" There you will find this issue discussed from any possible angle you can imagine!


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## Astaldo (Oct 5, 2004)

So you cannot say that Gollum is pure evil


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## Gildor (Oct 5, 2004)

Tom Bombadil. No one can be that jolly without hiding a dark and dreadful secret.


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## e.Blackstar (Oct 5, 2004)

Gildor said:


> Tom Bombadil. No one can be that jolly without hiding a dark and dreadful secret.



Amen. I repeal my earlier message (yeah, right  ) in favor of Gildor's opinion.


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## Elessar II (Oct 6, 2004)

Mine would probably be the troll. 
Ruthless and formidable, yet hilariously stupid (as seen in the "Hobbit"), the troll presents a whole new aspect of a force of evil: blind adherence.
Now, according to Treebeard, the trolls were made in mockery of the Ents, so I've always wondered if in fact, trolls couldn't choose to be good, but were born evil. For if what Treebeard said is true, it would make sense for trolls to be decidedly evil.


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## greypilgrim (Oct 6, 2004)

I take the side of the "Evil-Gollumers" becuz i think he was evil through and though.

My favorite evil chtr. would be a dragon! Huge, smart, powerful, wicked, they knew spells and breathed fire, and basically were really, umm, well respected I guess would be the word I'm looking for here, and also, they weren't made in mockery of anything, just made to be...dragons.


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## Hobbit-queen (Oct 6, 2004)

I think dragons are some of the most fantastic creature of all time.

I love reading stories about dragons. I want to read "Eragon", but I haven't gotten to it yet. I want to write stories about dragons and the magic they possess. I just love them. They remind me of horses. 
Some are untame and wild as the stars that hang in the heavens, and others are loyal to humans and very trusting. The character of a dragon can vary.
My favorite dragon in all the stories I've read would have to be Smaug.
Smaug rocks! His personallity is wonderful, and I enjoy that in a character.
Dragons are so important to me!

Always, 
Hobbit-queen


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## baragund (Oct 7, 2004)

Greypilgrim, Do you suppose Morgoth created the winged dragons in mockery of Manwe's Eagles?


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## Astaldo (Oct 7, 2004)

I think if they were made in mockery they would be of less power but Dragons were not, at least some of them.


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## greypilgrim (Oct 7, 2004)

baragund said:


> Greypilgrim, Do you suppose Morgoth created the winged dragons in mockery of Manwe's Eagles?


No, this added a whole new dimension to their power, not being earth-bound. Wait, yes, he made them in mockery of eagles, didn't he ever see anything fly before?


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## Bergil (Oct 26, 2004)

I am a little surprised no one has mentioned my favorite evil charcters, the wraiths. I remember reading the books I always thought they were so.....menacing but I thought they were a great part of the series. When they were at weathertop, the shire, etc.


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## Hobbit-queen (Nov 7, 2004)

The Wraiths are evil. 

When I watched the Fellowship of the Ring for the fist time, I was shaking in my boots! I thought they were the most evil of things until I saw The Two Towers.
Gollum became my favorite. He's just so sneaky.....and mysterious.....

Always,
Hobbit-queen


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## Manwe (Nov 11, 2004)

The ring-wraiths are one of my favourite evil things. They are like Gollum (i.e. they are corrupted by evil) but they are ten times more evil creating these completely evil non-beings. Their only goal is to serve evil. I imagine that looking at one would be like being blind. Like looking into nothing but pure evil.


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## Barliman Butterbur (Nov 12, 2004)

Hobbit-queen said:


> If you could be something truly evil from LoTRs, who or what would it be?



Well, stodgy old fogie that I am, I'd have to say Melkor — he began it way back in the opening pages of Sil. Actually, one could even argue that it was Ilúvatar, since he allowed for evil in the first place. ::: _puts on asbestos suit_ :::

(By the way, your dark red font color barely shows up on my screen.)

Barley


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## alcesta (Nov 12, 2004)

I'd chose Gollum, for the very reason he isn't pure evil. That is, for Smeagol in him. I find nothing interesting in totally black and flat characters. Although sometimes I catch myself actually feeling simpathy and comprehension even for Melkor...does it mean something's wrong with me? 



> Actually, one could even argue that it was Ilúvatar, since he allowed for evil in the first place.


But that's the same old question, applied to all the religions with clear opposites of Good and Evil power. We could say the same for Christian notions of Lucifer, and the way he was allowed to rebel, couldn't we? I guess then we are back to the problem of the free will...

Oh, I almost forgot...speaking of dragons, I must include Smaug, of course.


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## Garwen (Nov 26, 2004)

I think that Gollum is very evil. He was corrupted by the ring as soon as he saw it, he began to desire it, and murdered to claim it for his own.
I thought that I had read that Melkor could not create anything except in mockery? not sure though.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Nov 28, 2004)

I'd have to go with the Ringwraiths, they totally blow away every other ghost-like mind-controlled evil thingy in all of literature. (Yes, that is a technical term, lol.) The way their cries sound so lonely, so empty, so eerie, like some utterly alien kind of bird, just struck me right from the start, and that sound effect, when I first heard it in the theatre...it just felt like I'd gotten an ice-pick stabbed up my spine. I guess the reason they're something I could more easily imagine being is the fact that they were once men but are now semi-transformed...also the horses. I love horses. I always thought it was heart-wrenchingly sad but cool in an odd, undefinable way that they kidnapped the black horses of Rohan and made them evil; there's something strangely, falsely alluring in that fact, as in all the greatest evils. I don't like them half as much once they get the winged mounts. (Not that those weren't awesome as well, and I wouldn't trade any of those scenes for the world, but I couldn't relate to the idea as well.)

Dragons may well be my favorite evil things, but the nod _probably_ goes to the Wraiths, but either way, I couldn't imagine _being_ a dragon even though I like them.

The other "evil" I love, and would delight in being would be the dark Elves, and yes, some of them were evil in some sense of the word, though you could argue that it wasn't always in and of themselves since they were magically enthralled by Morgoth, but there are also instances where they are referred to as going wrong all on their own. Not necessarily corrupt from the start, but many tended that way, and the case of Eöl "the Dark Elf," which phrase has always made me curious, and Maeglin, his son, finely illustrates the point. They definitely went bad at some time (poor Aredhel), and it's perhaps the knowledge that they had such potential for good, with all the advantages that come from being an Elf, and the obvious skills they possessed in metalurgy, that makes their ah, downfall so moving.


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## Thráin II (Dec 30, 2004)

Sauron. Undoubtedly that's who I'd want to be. I've always been rather angry at Sauron for having ALL THAT POWER and not managing to defeat the good guys (though I'm naturally happy that he was defeated, I am annoyed by his lack of alertness).

I'd like to be Sauron and have all his power AND GUARD MOUNT DOOM WITH SOME ORCS, I'd do all in my power to take Minas Tirith long before any fellowship could be summoned, and since we KNOW Sauron had a physical form (countrary to what PJ suggests) I'd go out of Mordor and use my immense power to corrupt on the elves of Lorien, and so on.

I think Sauron made great mistakes in being idle inside Mordor up to the point where he HAD to launch his attack.

Sauron rocks.


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## Hammersmith (Jan 19, 2005)

Ted Sandyman.

Seriously, though, I think Tolkein's best created evil was Saruman. What. A. Character. Is there anything you could say against him?


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## Wolfshead (Feb 6, 2005)

Gildor said:


> Tom Bombadil. No one can be that jolly without hiding a dark and dreadful secret.


I first nicked this idea off The Tolkien Sarcasm Page a long time ago and the thread seems to have got lost in the midst of time, but RD's posted it again since then. I think the article quoted in this thread tells you all you need to know about Tom Bombadil and his mysterious motives 

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?t=7787


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