# Sil Movie!!!!



## Mighty Sam (Jun 9, 2002)

Assuming there was enough money in Hollywood to make a Sil movie what would be your guesses on: how long it would be and what would be your fav sences?? and why?


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## Rangerdave (Jun 9, 2002)

The only possible way I can see a viable movie of the Sil is to have someone read it. 

My basic idea is this. gather a whole lot of talented artists and have them paint various scenes. A few live action sequences *without dialogue* and many many maps. 

Sort of the same thing Ken Burns did with his movie about the Civil War. Total running time would be at least 21 hours in three hour blocks. 

Maybe some cable channel like A&E or Bravo will think about it, but I'm not going to hold my breath.


The big question is 
  *Who Will Narrate?*   


RD


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## ReadWryt (Jun 9, 2002)

The more I read "The Book of Lost Tales", the more I like the idea of multiple narrators if someone were to attempt such a work. Still using the "Documentary Style" photography, but having the characters sitting next to the "Lore FIre".


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## Aldanil (Jun 10, 2002)

*how it might be done*

Along the lines of a much-expanded presentation akin to PJ's expo/intro to his FOTR, perhaps? A sweeping, stirring overview, that is -- might not for frame-story the Hall of Fire in the House of Elrond serve as back-lot stand-in for the Cottage of Lost Tales? Or rather, say, realized chapter by chapter over six or seven long episodes (Fingolfin's fate before the Gates of Angband, Beren's hand in the belly of Caracaroth, Tuor's sight of Ulmo rising from the Sea), might not the Tale of the Jewels be told with the same digital-visualizing technology which produced Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, grown very much less expensive -- and so capable of careful attention to accurate and rich detail without entailing an enormous budget -- after the initial development costs have been expended, and the seamless synthetic cinematic method is closer to perfected? You know, the sort of thing that George Lucas could do if he had a story worth telling, knew how to tell one, and understood understatement?


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## Anarchist (Jun 10, 2002)

I believe that creating a documentary style movie for the Silmarillion would be the best choice. I am sure this will never happen since only freaks nd maniacs like us (excuse me for the expression  ) will pay to watch it. It would be nice to watch th maps then some movie cut-scenes (cartoons or computerised grphics would also work great and it will be a lot cheaper).

Now, about the narrator, I strongly believe that the man for the job would be Orson Welles. Just listen his narrations in the Manowar songs "Defender" an "Dark Avenger" and you will understand my choice.

The best scene in my opinion would be the final war against Morgoth.


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## Gil-Galad (Jun 10, 2002)

I think that would be more difficult project than LOTR movie.The problem is that there're so many charecters and it'll be impossible for person who hasn't read the book to understand anything.
I'm a sceptic about such movie,cause it should be done in the best way and I think nobody can direct such project,even P Jackson.
If he does it he'll be the greatest director ever.


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## Dol Amroth (Jun 10, 2002)

Surely, the most viable possibility for an adaptation of the Silmarillion is an animated series dividing the book into seperate tales. The technology is there,and it need not be perfect. I know the animated LotR was a bad experience for anyone who saw it, but the Sil could be done one a smaller scale for TV quite easily I reckon. In that way, it wouldn't only attract those who are already fans. I hesitate to say this for fear of being shot down in flames of protest, but it could even be aimed at least in part at a young audience. Television is full, or was when I watched childrens tv, of animated series about knightes and King Aurthur and things of that nature, so why not Tolkien too, in a tasteful way?


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## Ancalagon (Jun 10, 2002)

I really don't like the idea of creating a Sil movie. I do not think anyone truly has the ability to capture the essence of this particular work on celluloid. Some things are best left to the imagination, The Silmarillion as a whole is one of them. Now, that said; if someone did make an effort at producing the book, I guess the best way to approach it would be to leave out the Rings of Power and Akallabeth. These would need to be wrought within Unfinished Tales which would be a separate undertaking altogether.

I believe the best way to approach it would be to take the story of the Noldor, translate it onto the screen, and use narration to capture the creation story as RD and RW have said. If it focused on the Elves and the story of Feanor as a main theme it would be impressive, but extremely difficult. The point of the awakening of men would need to be built into the narration and their appearance handled extremely delicately, because this adds a totally different dimension to the story. To interlace their history with the Elves in a 3 hour movie would be nigh on impossible.


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## Rangerdave (Jun 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anarchist _
> *
> Now, about the narrator, I strongly believe that the man for the job would be Orson Welles. *



Ahh Welles, now there was a voice. But unless you discover a time machine nearby and can get us back to october 1985. Orson may have a bit of trouble providing the narration. What being dead and all.

RD


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## ReadWryt (Jun 11, 2002)

R.D.,

One would have to employ that OTHER Welles then...


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## Rangerdave (Jun 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ReadWryt _
> *R.D.,
> 
> One would have to employ that OTHER Welles then... *




H.G. ?


I am so tragically unhip. What other Welles would that be?

All I can think of is either HG or Dawn Wells (Mary Ann on Gilligan's Island)

RD


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## Anarchist (Jun 12, 2002)

Ancalagon I understand why you disagree with the movie idea but this is not very wrong in my opinion and would not totally fail. Remember Odyssey (if you ever watched it of course) which consisted of two long episodes. I think you agree that the Odyssey is also hard to make into movie (think about Iliad then!) but the outcome was fine. Of course the Sil is totally different since it is about history of thousands of years. I still believe it would work and that technology today would allow to have a good outcome. Still a lot of work would be needed by people that have actually studied Tolkien really deep (I can thing some people from this forum). 
BTW hoe can I create a moving avatar???

Rangerdave, I believe that it is hard to find another voice like Orson Welles'. It was the best for epic themes. I believe that one should have a really deep voice to narrate in a Sil movie.


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## Tar-Palantir (Jun 12, 2002)

Has anyone listened to the audio book version of the Silmarillion? I don't have my set at hand, but the gentleman that narrated that was fantastic. He had the pronounciation down pat (as far as I could tell) and a wonderful voice. I can't imagine anyone better suited to narrate a Silmarillion movie than him (sorry, I can't remember his name - I don't recall it as one that I recognized when I bought the tapes).


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## Dol Amroth (Jun 12, 2002)

*Audio version of The Silmarillion*

His name was Martin Shaw, and I agree that he was phenomenal as the narrator. It is a thoroughly well-made production , and is unreservedly recommended. For those that don't know, that would be the Harper Collins andio version. It's completely unabridged, read by a single narrator. As Tar-Palantir says, his voice suits the essence of the stories wonderfully, and even the music is sutibly dramatic and agreeably unintrusive. Perhaps I should say that I DIDN'T have anything to do with the production, but I have to say that any Tolkien fan should aim to have this in his/her collection.


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## Flame of Anor (Jun 13, 2002)

IMO I don't think that they should make a Sil movie because knowing Hollywood they would most likely butcher the book. And if they did make a Sil movie, I am not sure that I would go and see it because they would most likely leave out some very important parts or not explain it very well (which would have to be done in order for the people who had not read the book to understand the movie).

-Flame


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## Beren Erchanion (Jun 13, 2002)

Being a movie director myself (College movies and stuffs for myself) I know that should be a very hard job to start and think « Ok i got a movie to do about the Sil, how I gonna show it?» I hate the idea of a T.V. show. T.V. is boring and highly addictive.. well more than cinema .A Sil. movie must look like it was God who has done it. The story is sooooo grrrreat the characters are sooooo perfect You must have the best of the best actors to play in your movie, and NO BIG NAMES. The Balrog was great in TLotR movie Gollum too so I'm Having no problems with the idea of using computer stuffs to do the multiples faces of magic and creatures. The best Scene got to be when Lúthien put all the Thangorodrim asleep and Beren takes one Sil. than try another one and wake up Morgoth and his legions.

-----------------
P.S. Excuse my english I'm a french guy


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## Tar-Palantir (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Audio version of The Silmarillion*



> _Originally posted by Dol Amroth _
> *His name was Martin Shaw, and I agree that he was phenomenal as the narrator. It is a thoroughly well-made production , and is unreservedly recommended. For those that don't know, that would be the Harper Collins andio version. It's completely unabridged, read by a single narrator. As Tar-Palantir says, his voice suits the essence of the stories wonderfully, and even the music is sutibly dramatic and agreeably unintrusive. Perhaps I should say that I DIDN'T have anything to do with the production, but I have to say that any Tolkien fan should aim to have this in his/her collection. *



Thanks Dol. I was going crazy trying to find my set of tapes then remembered that I loaned it to a friend - who has since moved!!!!


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## Mighty Sam (Jun 24, 2002)

*la la la*

come on some1 keep talking about this phenomina


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## elf boy (Jul 19, 2002)

the very idea of a Sil movie scares me... There is WAY to much stuff in there to make a movie, and i am still in depression from the fellowship of the ring movie (give me bombadil!!!). Also, if you read the Sil, (the whole way through) yer probably quite a tolkien fan, that or you have some odd ways. I don't think anyone that likes Tolkien's books enough to read the Sil really wants to see a Sil movie cause it's extremely doubtful that they will be happy with it.... But fer my guess of length, to do it right, 3 days. My favorite part in the Sil is probably Beren's quest, and Tulkas capturing Melkor.


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## Gil-Galad (Jul 20, 2002)

Confusticated,you're very very right........money kill art.Probably such movie should be done in Great Britain or in France,or in Europe.The European movies have deeper characters,they put a stress on pepole's psychical develpment as a characters in the movie.I adore European movies.
At the same time I must confess that The Fellowship CANNOT be done better.It seems alwful t omany people cause it's not the same as the book as the real Tolkien's world but I'm sure nobody can make better version.


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## Rangerdave (Jul 24, 2002)

Nice thought about having a European director and producer. I tend to agree. 

I wonder if the guy who did the _Wallace and Gromit_ adventures is available. 

RD


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## Theoden (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gil-Galad _
> *Confusticated,you're very very right........money kill art.Probably such movie should be done in Great Britain or in France,or in Europe.The European movies have deeper characters,they put a stress on pepole's psychical develpment as a characters in the movie.I adore European movies.
> At the same time I must confess that The Fellowship CANNOT be done better.It seems alwful t omany people cause it's not the same as the book as the real Tolkien's world but I'm sure nobody can make better version. *



agreed


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## ReadWryt (Aug 1, 2002)

"Nobody" is a pretty concrete word to bandy about...I can remember a time when people said that Nobody could direct a Live Action version of The Lord of the Rings PERIOD.


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## Winch (Aug 26, 2002)

I believe the Sil could be made into a movie with no problem. It would require just a little narative because a lot of the story could be told in the dialog of the characters. I think it would be great. And when you consider how $$ drives everything I'll bet we see it someday.


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## Rangerdave (Aug 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Winch _
> *I believe the Sil could be made into a movie with no problem. It would require just a little narative because a lot of the story could be told in the dialog of the characters. I think it would be great. And when you consider how $$ drives everything I'll bet we see it someday. *



I guess I read a different Sil. I don't recall that much dialogue in the book. Mostly narrative.

RD


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## Confusticated (Aug 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Winch _
> *I believe the Sil could be made into a movie with no problem. It would require just a little narative because a lot of the story could be told in the dialog of the characters. I think it would be great. And when you consider how $$ drives everything I'll bet we see it someday. *


It is my opinion that if this movie is made, it would be better to have more dialog than to narrate the entire thing....This would be risky business though, because not just anybody would write good dialog for the Valar and Elves.
So for that reason, I would also hope that there was little diaglog: less room to screw it all up. If someone out there pulls this off with dialog, I think it would be such an amazing artistic acomplishment than it may be second only to Tolkien's books among all art that I have know.
Whenever I imagine this movie it is animated...
The plus side of that is that the creators can put on screen extactly what they envision...no need to worry about actors nailing it dead on.
The plus side to live action would be the battle scenes, and the fact that most people are more easily pulled into these movies, and view them as being more real than with animations.


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## Hama (Aug 27, 2002)

The concept of a Silmarillion TV series has long been in my mind. A movie, I feel, is asking to be butchered by the writers. I had not thought about an animated series, but that would be great. I have been mostly disappointed with fantasy movies and TV series (and most non-Tolkien novels for that matter) as few have been able to catch the epic nature of the story, or make the world it's in seem magical or fantastic. One excpetion, actually, is the animated adaptation of CS Lewis's The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, which had mediocre animation, but managed to get the magic across in a much better way than, lets say, the animated Hobbit. Although most of the Sil is narration, there are a number of stories which Tolkien wrote in more detail in the UT and the HoME books. So dialogue for complementing scenes in the Silmarillion can be taken from those sources. European films, especially French films, are delving more into the realms of both action and fantasy, and the results are astounding. A European production would be fabuleux. And Japanese animators are also becoming much more skilled. They may be able to provide the lush and vivid scenery which the Silmarillion needs. 
Rangerdave: I certainly hope you were being facetious regarding Wallace and Gromit. Although I am a big fan, the thought of a clay-animated version of the Silmarillion is to ridiculous to even fathom.


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## Winch (Aug 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rangerdave _
> *
> 
> I guess I read a different Sil. I don't recall that much dialogue in the book. Mostly narrative.
> ...



I didn't say there was that much dialog in the book but that the narrative that is there could easily be adapted into a character's dialog with another character. I think they could do that and stay true to the book with no problem.
I would not want to see it animated. I would want to see the same kind of computer generated scenes as we see in FOTR. And for heaven's sake not Japanese animation. Can you see Manwe' looking and acting like a Poke'mon or whatever that is my kid watches.


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## Confusticated (Aug 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Winch _
> *
> 
> I didn't say there was that much dialog in the book but that the narrative that is there could easily be adapted into a character's dialog with another character. I think they could do that and stay true to the book with no problem.
> I would not want to see it animated. I would want to see the same kind of computer generated scenes as we see in FOTR. And for heaven's sake not Japanese animation. Can you see Manwe' looking and acting like a Poke'mon or whatever that is my kid watches. *



I didn't say Japanese animation but animation, it could easy be ANY style of animation.


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## Grond (Aug 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rangerdave _
> *...The big question is
> Who Will Narrate?
> 
> RD *


Charlton Heston of course!!!


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## Grond (Aug 27, 2002)

Here is the Table of Contents to The Silmarillion...


> _The Silmarillion
> 
> *J. R. R. Tolkien*
> 
> ...


Allot thirty minutes for each chapter (which would be totally inadequate) and you end up with a whooping 15 hours of movie time. That doesn't take into consideration that Chapters 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 could easily be combined and made into a movie in their own right. Chapter 17 and 18 could also be made into a pretty good epic. Chapter 19 _Of Beren and Luthien_ would probably make a good movie as would Chapter 21_ Of Turin Turambar_. Both Chapters 23 _Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin_ and 24 _Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath_ would each make good movies on their own. The Akallabeth would need to be more of a narrative style presentation because it is more about the history of Numenor and not one cohesive story and in this regard is very similar to Ainulindale and the Valaquenta. I just don't know how you would pull it off except, as someone has already suggested, in a TV series and we know that wouldn't be of a quality that most of us Tolkien fans would appreciate. I think of how I fail to understand some of the directorial decisions PJ has made and know that I would have a cardiac arrest if it was produced by Fox or ABC. It would be butchered.


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## Theataris (Aug 28, 2002)

Rather than making a movie of the whole thing, I think a movie focusing on one story would be a whole lot more feasible. The story of Beren and Luthien would make a completely kick ass movie, it it were done right.


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## Confusticated (Aug 30, 2002)

I think that the entire Quenta Silmarillion could be made into a movie (though I am automaticly imaging this as an animation) with the Ainulindale as an introduction. I don't know how well I could explain my vision for this.
But if anyone is interested I will type it up and post it, or PM it, or e-mail to that person, describing it to the best of my ability.
As for an actual motion picture, that is something that does not naturally occur in my mind as I read the Ainulindale, or of the creation of Arda by the Valar.


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## Winch (Sep 6, 2002)

I was thinking of a way this movie could be done that would be a follow up to the Return Of The King after it comes out next year( assuming they end it like the book with everyone that's leaving middle earth sailing off). Frodo could be questioning Gandalf or Galadriel about the origin of middle earth and they could narrate the story with it switching to scenes of the various tales and back to the present. That might fit a mini series better though...


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