# Elvish last names...



## Beorn

How come Elvish last names are used so infrequently? Is it just that their first names are so unique that a last name is rendered useless?


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## Talierin

My take on that is since they're immortal, they usually don't name their kids same names like we do, since that would be confusing. When they do identify themselves though, they often say "Legolas Greenleaf", greenleaf being the meaning in English of Legolas, "Elrond Half-Elven", or even "Elf-name-here, son of So-and-So", which seems to me to be their way of last names. It's the same way with the Dwarves too, like "Gimli son of Gloin".


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## Grond

Alas, I agree fully with you Tal where it concerns non-elvish names . It would appear that Tolkien placed much more emphasis on the actual lineage than the name where non-Eldar races were concerned. As in Beren son of Barahir. Aragorn son of Arathorn son of Arador. Frodo son of Drogo. Thorin son of Thrain son of Thror.... just to name a few. But there seemed to be a different mechanism for elves. I never heard one of them referred to as Glorfindel son of so and so. 

It may be that they had a way of communicating one with the other that transcended our understanding. I'm reminded of Elrond conversing with Galadrial and Celeborn on the way back from Rohan without speaking. Apparently they had some means of identifying themselves to one another without the need for a last name or other than their first name identification. Remember that the elves have a different type of inner soul than other creatures. This was illustrated by Glorfindel at the Fords of Bruinen when he appeared as a bright figure yet bore no flame.

I don't know what I've done other than stirring the pot but... there you have my thoughts.


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## Gothmog

Although it does not come up in the Lord of the Rings, the Elves go less by "Son of" and more by "Of The House Of". this can be seen in the Silmarillion where the Noldor when they first make weapons carry shields 'Displaying the tokens of many houses'.

As for Men, Hobbits and Dwarves going by "Beren Son Of Barahir", "Frodo Son Of Drogo" or "Gimli Son Of Gloin". It is only recently that we have used the "Family Name" as a permenant Sur-Name. In Welsh Ap is used in Galic O' or Mc or even Mac. in other languages they have others but All mean "Son Of". The other Sur-Names most commonly came from jobs, as in Fletcher - Maker of Arrows and his most profitable partner Bowyer who made the weapons the shoot Fletcher's arrows.


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## Cian

*Elvish names in Valinor*

The Eldar in Valinor had a "father-name", given at birth, usually recalling the father's name, to which some distinguishing prefix might be added for example, (ex. _Curufinwë_), or a patronymic (ex. _Finwion_ 'son of Finwë'). The Father-name of a daughter would likewise often be derived from the name of the mother. Then there were the Mother-names, or _amilessi,_ given later ~ though sometimes soon after birth, for the mothers of the Eldar were gifted with deep insight into their children's characters and abilities, and many had "prophetic foresight".

There's also _epessë_ ('after-name' probably a "given" name) which might be acquired, not necessarilly given by their own kin, like a 'nickname' -- mostly as a title of admiration or honour, or in token of some marked feature of body or mind. Elwë became widely known as _Sindicollo_ "Greycloak", and hence later in Sindarin _Thingol._ 

It was noted that later, some of the exiles gave themselves names as disguises or in reference to their own deeds or personal history.

There also seems to be an Elven "chosen name" ~ the choice of an Elf deemed ready and capable, ie having an individual pleasure in the sounds and forms of words ~ this "name-choosing" usually took place at or about the end of the tenth year. this seems distinct from _Cilmessë_ "choice, or self-name" given for disguise and whatnot, already referred to above.


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## Grond

When the questions get tough, the tough go to Cian. Way to go man.


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