# What's up with Ingwe anyhow?



## Confusticated (Sep 20, 2003)

Did Ingwe have any duties as High King of Elves? Did he ever do anything as King? Attend Valar councils on behalf of the First Born, anything? Why does he get some title making him King of all the elves? Because he was leader of the First Group to reach Aman and was therefore snatched up by Manwe and Varda?

Was his title just for show or status? But he is revered by elves, why? Is there something about him we don't know or is it because he's close with Manwe and Varda? He doesn't seem to have any special say in anything, he didn't send a message that we know of to Feanor or anything at the marshalling of the hosts at the rebellion. Did Ingwe have no more authority over the Noldor than Finwe... even less authority? Does he have authority but fail to use it? Was he sucked in by the treelight just like the Valar were, and because of that neglected his duties? A failure we never hear about?


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 20, 2003)

I think he was much like Manwë himself. He was wise and knowledgable, but had no adventurous blood running through his veins, and never cared to venture back out into Middle Earth. Perhaps the Vanyar, much like Manwë, did not comprehend evil either, and did not really understand what all 'the fuss was about'.


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## Húrin Thalion (Sep 20, 2003)

Because of the limited information available, I am just putting out my theory without any calims that it be right. The High King of the Noldor certainly seems to have some power, if granted only by his seniority and status in Profession. That situation is different since he is the eldest male in the family, and as such a sort of a patriarch for the others. Even his role a sa King was pretty weak, as can be seen from the indecisiveness among the Noldor, everything depended on the council of all the lords were united, see the league fo Maedhros for example. Ingwë power seems to ahve been even less, since it is not even mentioned, and I would think that he was sort of a ceremonial King, and that the case was: 'We don't do anything in force, so why should we have a mighty King to lead us?'' He was in theory 'primus inter pares' but fo rthat authority to be wielded, it needs a decisive person, and a tradition fo it. The vanyar had simply grown together with the valar in their inactivity. 

Húrin Thalion


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## Beleg (Sep 20, 2003)

> Perhaps the Vanyar, much like Manwë, did not comprehend evil either, and did not really understand what all 'the fuss was about'.



Why do you think that they 'wont' be able to comprehend evil? 
Well Nóm, he is the High King; that's the reason probably for his revered status. 
Welcome back, Húrin. [Although I don't agree with your theory]


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg _
> *Why do you think that they 'wont' be able to comprehend evil?
> *



I did not say 'won't be able' I said 'perhaps they did not'. For the same reason why Manwë does not understand evil?



> Well Nóm, he is the High King; that's the reason probably for his revered status.



That's just going in circles without reaching a conclusion: Why is he revered? Because he's the High King. Why is he the High King? Because he's revered.


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## Beleg (Sep 20, 2003)

> That's just going in circles without reaching a conclusion: Why is he revered? Because he's the High King. Why is he the High King? Because he's revered.


No it is not. A person can be revered and not be a high King, but most High Kings are revered. 
He is perhaps revered due to his wisdom, his closeness to Eleberth and Manwe and due to his post as a High King.


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## Confusticated (Sep 23, 2003)

Did Ingwe fail?


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 23, 2003)

If he did, we cannot know about it. To judge him saying 'He should have done more for Middle Earth and helped everyone' would not be fair, since we don't know his motives for never venturing to Middle Earth, though he did help in the War of Wrath. Given what we know, he did not fail.


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## Húrin Thalion (Sep 23, 2003)

Refering to my above post, I say that he did not since his powers were very limited. What he could have done was to expand his power at the expense of others, but I think that would not have ended up very well either.

Really, about a person about whom so little is said, we cannot deem if he failed or not, since he abandoned to strive for power, he could not do anything, if you call that a failure, then that is his failure.

Måns


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