# Dark Elves



## Búrzghâsh (Dec 10, 2005)

I need all the info anyone has on them for my studies of the black speech.


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## Thorondor_ (Dec 11, 2005)

The Moriquendi are the dark elves that never saw the light of Aman (either by not reaching it, or by not setting out towards it in the first place); here is some info from the Silmarillion concerning their main divisions:


> Chapter 3 - *Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor*
> 
> Then befell the first sundering of the Elves. For the kindred of Ingwe, and the most part of the kindreds of Finwe and Elwe, were swayed by the words of their lords, and were willing to depart and follow Orome; and these were known ever after as the Eldar, by the name that Orome gave to the Elves in the beginning, in their own tongue. But many refused the summons, preferring the starlight and the wide spaces of Middle-earth to the rumour of the Trees; and these are the *Avari*, the Unwilling, and they were sundered in that time from the Eldar, and met never again until many ages were past.
> 
> ...


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## Búrzghâsh (Dec 11, 2005)

hmm. Very interesting. is that all there is? No Avarin at all? othere than names. Probably not very helpful anyway except for the fact that that wandered the west. but on another matter: Lenwe What dos Lenwe mean in elvish.


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## Thorondor_ (Dec 11, 2005)

There is a refference of Avarin words is in "Author's notes to quendi and eldar":


> The Avarin forms cited by the Loremasters were: kindi, cuind, hwenti, windan, kinn-lai, penni.





> Lenwe What dos Lenwe mean in elvish


My best guessing would be star, but there people around here who really know their way with elven names.


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## Búrzghâsh (Dec 11, 2005)

correct me if im wrong but does eldar not mean people of the stars?


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## Thorondor_ (Dec 11, 2005)

You are correct; according to the Index of names in the Silmarillion:


> According to Elvish legend the name Eldar - People of the Stars - was given to all the elves by the vala Orome. It came however to be used to refer only to the elves of the three kindreds (vanyar, noldor, and teleri) who set out on the great westward march from Cuiviénen (whether or not they remained in middle-earth), and to exclude the avari.


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## Búrzghâsh (Dec 11, 2005)

So lenwe does not equate to star


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## Thorondor_ (Dec 11, 2005)

From HoME XI:


Nandor said:


> The old name Nandor was however only remembered by the Noldorin historians in Aman; and they knew nothing of the later history of this folk, recalling only that the leader of the defection before the crossing of the dread Hithaeglir was named Lenwe (i.e. Denweg). The Sindarin loremasters remembered the Nandor as Danwaith, or by confusion with the name of their leader Denwaith.





Author's Notes to Quendi and Eldar said:


> Lenwe is the form in which his name was remembered in noldorin histories. His name was probably Denwego, nandorin Denweg. His son was the Nandorin chieftain Denethor. These names probably meant 'lithe-and-active' and 'lithe-and- lank', from dene- 'thin and strong, pliant, lithe', and thara- 'tall (or long) and slender'.


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## Haldatyaro (Dec 12, 2005)

This is pretty much all we know of an Avari language:

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/avarin.htm

Yep, six words is all the Professor is known to have developed.


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