# Tolkien: Is he really the father of modern fantasy?



## Lord of Ry'leh

It is a widely popular opinion that the genre of modern fantasy began with Tolkien, when he penned the first tales of Middle-Earth. I, however, find this theory lacking.

While I do enjoy Lord of the Rings immensely, I really can't bring myself to say that Tolkien invented the fantasy genre. Why not? Because of another writer that has at least 15-20 years on Tolkien.

Yes indeed, Robert E. Howard was writing and publishing work far before The Hobbit or Lord of the Rings were completed. Howard's best known work is of course the tales of Conan of Cimmeria, one of the most recognizable swords 'n sorcery hero. Howard wrote a large body or fiction based on the Hyborean Age, publishing in magazines from around 1915 - 1920's. That's at least 10 years before The Hobbit was published.

Obviously Tolkien's work is beloved by a greater fan base, but I think Robert E. Howard deserves some credit from creating modern fantasy as well. What do you think?


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## Inderjit S

I think most fantasy authors, and authors from other genres are influenced greatly by Tolkien. iu'm not a great fntasy fan so I cannoy comment on other great founding fathers of fntasy, though Tolkien is def. one of them. LoTR is, after all, the second best selling book of all time.


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## joxy

Lord of Ry'leh said:


> I really can't bring myself to say that Tolkien invented the fantasy genre.


A couple of guys got in first:
Daniel Defoe, AD 1660-1731
Aristophanes, BC 450-380
and maybe a few between them....


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## Inderjit S

Dante Alghieri?  Cervantes? John Keats? Well some of his poems have a hint of fantasy about them. i.e. Lamia, or even Isabella and Ode to Saint Agnes are fantasy-esque, as well as some of his odes. Even if they aren't they're still beautiful poems.  

Eugh...'Robinson Crusoe' was painfully over-fastidious. He's like an antiquated version of D.H Lawrence. Heh...I still remember reading 'Women In Love'. Double eugh.


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## Zale

Do the Arthurian legends count as fantasy? They were written quite early on in the Middle Ages, by a bloke called Chretien de Troyes.


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## joxy

Inderjit S said:


> 'Robinson Crusoe' was painfully over-fastidious. He's like an antiquated version of D.H Lawrence.


Both fastidious - an interesting idea - and a correct one, when you come to think of it - another example of your wide-ranging intellect, I S!
There's someone in a thread asking for advice about Sons and Lovers - I've already disparaged DHL to her - she could use a word from you on the subject too!


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## faila

I think by father of modern fantasy they mean most influential. I would say that it has been the most influential on all fantasy. I can think of very few books (or even fantasy Rpgs video games) that are not atleast in some way influenced by tolkien.


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## HLGStrider

I'm not exactly a qualified expert, but I'd say that Tolkien made it respectful in someways, popularized it, in others, and made it appeal to people on a broader scale.

The fantasy genre stopped being something that was a bit dusty or a bit childish. 

You'll find Tolkien fans who aren't fantasy buffs. Tolkien is bigger than the genre, and in being so, he encompasses it.


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## Inderjit S

> Both fastidious - an interesting idea - and a correct one, when you come to think of it - another example of your wide-ranging intellect, I S!



Thanks for the praise.  I don't know if I'm particularly "intellectual" I may know more about certain things then other people or be better at analysing certain things then other people but I'm pretty ignorant in most matters.  



> There's someone in a thread asking for advice about Sons and Lovers - I've already disparaged DHL to her - she could use a word from you on the subject too!



I'm a bit tied down with schoolwork and such to help that person with 'Sons and Lovers', though I don't think my analysis will be very good since it certainly isn't amongst my favourite books.


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## HLGStrider

Sometimes it helps to hate something so you can analyze it. It's hard to be analytical when you love something.


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## Arthur_Vandelay

HLGStrider said:


> Sometimes it helps to hate something so you can analyze it. It's hard to be analytical when you love something.



Well, I must really hate Tolkien's _Lord of the Rings_, because it was the subject of my honours thesis.


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## HLGStrider

I didn't say you had to hate it. I said it helped. 

It would probably be more accurate to say it helps not to feel strongly for either side of something to approach it from a truly analytical stage. 

However, I'm going for a short description or analysis. If you're going to devote a large amount of time to a subject it is better to feel something about it, or else you just might get bored.


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## Arthur_Vandelay

HLGStrider said:


> It would probably be more accurate to say it helps not to feel strongly for either side of something to approach it from a truly analytical stage.



Yes. "Hatred" is as likely to colour your analysis of a text as is "love." I do think it's possible--whatever your feelings on a text--to step away from it temporarily in order to analyse it properly and thoroughly.


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## Beleg

Tolkien can be called the father of Modern _High_ Fantasy.


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## HLGStrider

Then who is the father of low fantasy? Is Rowling the mother of low fantasy? What exactly would you classify as low fantasy?

I just love thoughts like this. So random and pointless. . .


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