# Names



## Anamatar IV (Dec 28, 2002)

Why do you think that though Elvish names are rarely used for different people (i.e. there wont be another Gil-galad and there never was another Gil-galad) yet many names of Elvish people are names of Men?

Fuindalas and Ecthelion are two that I can name off the top of my head. But why do you think this is?


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## gate7ole (Dec 28, 2002)

I remember that it is written somewhere that the Gondorian kings used for themselves elvish names, having great respect to the history (being taught by the Numenoreans).
Also, don't forget that the elves were immortal. Even if they were slain, they might return (like Glorfindel). So, the name that an elf used should be unique.


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## morello13 (Dec 29, 2002)

denethor is another


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## morello13 (Dec 29, 2002)

oh yeah haldir also


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## Isal Celebalda (Dec 29, 2002)

I don't know? But I love elvish names. I suppose it is indeed because of their immortality. However, you don't hear of elves named after famous slain elves, either! Ever heard of an elf named after Feanor, for example? Hmm...


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## Confusticated (Dec 29, 2002)

Nope, and can you blame them for that one?


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## Niniel (Dec 31, 2002)

Maybe it is because Elves are immortal, so if there are more Elves with the same name it would be confusing. And if an Elf died I don't think they woud give the same name to another, because the name had been connected to that particular Elf for so long that it would feel inappropiate to resue it. For men this doesn't go, and I think they liked Elven names because of the sound and the whole idea of being and Elf that was connected with them. Just like people in Europe made their names sound Latin or something.


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## Elthir (Jan 28, 2011)

The idea that Elves could not, or did not, repeat names seems to be a fairly widespread idea, but in my opinion it does not hold up when looking at the detail in JRRT's work. 

I think the notion possibly hails from the idea that Elves are 'immortal', and maybe a simplification of certain texts and (or) citations given without context. Here are the statements I think might be at the root of the idea:

A) simplification of the late statement that the repetition of Glorfindel's name would not be credible.

This can get posted without the statement that _Galdor_ is a name of more simple form than _Glorfindel,_ and might be repeated -- arguably indicating that the form of the name is a considerable detail here, and that other simpler forms (besides Galdor) might also be repeated. Tolkien noted here that Glorfindel is a 'striking' name.

_Glorfindel_ was also considered somewhat archaic in the context of Sindarin in which it landed, a point which Tolkien noted in _Words, Phrases, and Passages._ JRRT also later stated that this name, invented very early within the context of Gnomish (a language that had been abandoned) was thus 'difficult' to fit into Sindarin.

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B) simplification of statements concerning the Chosen Name from _Laws And Customs_

B1) Note 14 from Laws And Customs -- note 14 was later struck through by Tolkien, an important detail that should not be omitted (if quoted).

B2) _' (...) In later Ages, when there was a great abundance of names already in existence, it was more often selected from names that were known. But even so some modification of the old name might be made.'_

In my opinion even this doesn't really inform the reader that Elves never reused names, but in any case, it is part of a section concerning a _specific_ name: the Chosen Name.

B3) a statement concerning the private nature of the Chosen Name: _'The use of the chosen name, except by members of the same house (parents, sisters, and brothers), was a token of closest intimacy and love, when permitted. It was, therefore, presumptious or insulting to use it without permission.' _

This appears to imply to some that Elves did not repeat names among themselves -- but in any event this again refers to the Noldorin Chosen Name specifically, concerning which we can't be wholly sure was not later abandoned in any case! 



> '[The wholly different account of 'Chosen Names' in Laws And Customs among the Eldar (X. 214-15) appears to have been abandoned.]'
> 
> Christopher Tolkien, note 16, The Shibboleth of Feanor ​


 
Whether abandoned or not might be arguable, since the custom of Chosen Names had been implied to be specifically Noldorin in any event: _'But every child among the Noldor (in which point, maybe, they differed from the other Eldar) had also the right to name himself or herself.'_ Thus it seems at least possible that this custom was not noted in a later, shorter account, concerning names among the Eldar in general.​For consideration

_Argon_ -- name often given by Sindar and Noldor in memory of Aracano's valour (The Shibboleth of Feanor)

_Celebrimbor,_ Sindarized form of Telerin _Telperimpar_ -- said to be a frequent name among the Teleri (late writing, noted in Of Dwarves And Men, note 7).

_Rumil_ -- there are seemingly two Rumils in _The Lord of the Rings._

_Gelmir_ -- there are seemingly two Gelmirs in Silmarillion writings.

_Ambarussa_ (somewhat related here, though not exactly reflective of the point in general): Nerdanel gave her 6th and 7th child the same name: Ambarussa, though Feanor called one _Ambarto_ desiring that they should be differently named. 

_Galdor_ -- said to be a name of more simple form than the striking name _Glorfindel,_ and thus might be repeated (Last Writings, author's note 1).

So I think a given Elf could have had the same name as another Elf, generally speaking.


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