# Eye of Sauron



## BlackCaptain (Jul 13, 2003)

Me and my cousin, while driving home from work, got into a heated debate over whether the Eye of Sauron had some fancy Elvish like name, other than The Eye of Sauron, The Eye of Mordor, and those terms. 

Now I know I'm right... but there isn't any fancy termonology for the Eye right? My cousin said the line from the book was something like "You saw the ____, Frodo. The Eye of Mordor." I think that's bogus... haha... Can anyone proove me right? Or wrong?


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## YayGollum (Jul 13, 2003)

No, I can't prove you right, but I happen to think that you are. Sure, someone probably could translate 'eye of Sauron' into some nasssty elf language, but that version of the name wasn't something that was used in the bookses.


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## Mr. Underhill (Jul 13, 2003)

I think the image of "the Eye" was the incarnation Sauron used to present himself upon his return to power at the end of the Third Age, and thus no "fancy Elvish name" would probably have been yet attributed to this guise. I can recall no mention of this form in earlier ages, so I suspect this may have been his "comeback" persona for the end of the Third Age.


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## Flammifer (Jul 14, 2003)

I would say that you're right!

If you're talking about only the texts of LotR then it would only be in FotR that such a line (you saw the ____ Frodo...) would be spoken, because one would think only an Elf or Wizard (most likely an Elf) would say such a thing, and none are in Frodo's presence during the last two parts of LotR, until well after the ring is the destroyed.

I checked "The Mirror of Galadriel" in FotR, because I am certain Elrond doesn't say it, and only an Elf who bore one of the Three Rings would do so. So I checked the chapter because it's the only time when Galadriel speaks in depth to Frodo about Sauron etc. She only says "But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye" (referring to Frodo perceiving that Galadriel has one of the Three Rings). She also says "You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine". That's the fanciest line I can find!

Well now I'm reading what I just wrote and it seems a little bit confusing but I hope you get what I mean. I can't prove you're right either but I'm pretty sure you are!

Hope this helped!


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## BlackCaptain (Jul 14, 2003)

It did... Thanks all!


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## Tar-Elenion (Jul 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mr. Underhill _
> I think the image of "the Eye" was the incarnation Sauron used to present himself upon his return to power at the end of the Third Age, and thus no "fancy Elvish name" would probably have been yet attributed to this guise. I can recall no mention of this form in earlier ages, so I suspect this may have been his "comeback" persona for the end of the Third Age.



'Eye of Sauron' is used in the Akallabeth after Sauron returns to Middle-earth:
"But Sauron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men, yet his spirit arose out of the deep and passed as a shadow and a black wind over the sea, and came back to Middle-earth and to Mordor that was his home. There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dûr, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure."
The Silmarillion


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## baragund (Jul 14, 2003)

I couldn't find any translation for 'Eye of Sauron' in the books. He is known as Gorthaur in Sindarin, and he called himself Annatar (lord of gifts), Artano (high-smith) and Aulendil (servant of Aule). The last three aliases are from the glossary in UT.

That last alias is pretty galling, isn't it?


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## BlackCaptain (Jul 14, 2003)

If I knew what galling meant, I'd agree with you. But I dont...

Meh... I still agree


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## Mr. Underhill (Jul 15, 2003)

Sauron could still take a physical form after the fall of Numenor, although not a fair one (by his choosing or some other reason??). I wonder if "the Eye of Sauron" referred to in the Second Age was actually a physical gaze that few could endure ... and unable to yet re-take a physical form at the end of the Third Age without his precious ring he chose this image as a spiritual form to remind his enemies of his power and malice.


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## Tar-Elenion (Jul 15, 2003)

Sauron could and did take physical form after the Atalante in the Second Age, as well as when he reformed in the Third Age. In both circumstances he took a 'human' form. In neither case was he some giant disembodied eye.


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## baragund (Jul 15, 2003)

BC, That's an SAT word! You gotta know those! It means "irritating" or "exasperating".


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## Mr. Underhill (Jul 16, 2003)

I don't believe that Sauron had a physical shape at the time of the War of the Ring at the end of the Third Age. I think Gandalf alluded to as much at some point in the trilogy ... implying that the Ring would give him the strength he needed for such a venture as well as much more.


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## Mithlond (Jul 16, 2003)

Mr. Underhil, Tolkien states in his _Letters_ that the shape Sauron took in the third age was a being of human stature, tall but not gigantic. Something along those lines.
I dont have the exact quote on hand, but Tar-Elenion knows it all too well, and he probably has it backed up somewhere.


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## Tar-Elenion (Jul 16, 2003)

Letter 246:
"In the contest with the Palantír Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form their power must be far greater when actually physically present. Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance."


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## Mr. Underhill (Jul 17, 2003)

Thank you Tar-Elenion for clarifying this matter for me. I've been a Tolkien fan for years and yet this site and members like you remind me that there's so much more to learn. I haven't read "the Letters" yet, and so am not familiar with the knowledge contained therein, but I look forward to doing so.


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## YayGollum (Jul 17, 2003)

Do you really need crazy letters to tell you what the books do? Poor Smeagol talked about the guy's hands definitely messing with him.


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## Flammifer (Jul 18, 2003)

Yeah YayGollum are you referring to how Gollum says "he has only four fingers, but that is enough" (not sure of the exact quote).

Also in the Appendices of LOTR it says that in the War of the Ring Lorien could not have fallen to Sauron unless he himself came there (because of the Ring of Adamant). This suggests that he had a physical form during the War of the Ring and probably before that in the Third Age.


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