# Saddam: Sauron, Saruman or Lotho?



## Eledhwen (Dec 16, 2003)

I was wondering which evil LotR character people would most equate with Saddam Hussein. Is he the evil despot like Sauron, a weaker wannabe like Saruman or a hapless small guy playing big, like Lotho Sackville-Baggins?

Maybe you think he's like someone else?

What are the reasons for equating him with that character?


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## Snaga (Dec 16, 2003)

Let me outrage the entire forum by saying Feanor!

Wilful and defiant, kills own kin/people in order to get his own way, picks a fight with an enemy beyond his strength which is his eventual undoing.

Hmmm.... this parallel does fall down since Saddam does lack that creative genius. Oh well.....


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## Eledhwen (Dec 16, 2003)

An imaginative choice.

Saddam's creativity extended only to his own gilding ... palaces of opulence in a country and a people being torn apart.


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## Gandalf The Grey (Dec 16, 2003)

I see Hussein as a mixture of two out of the three poll choices, along with another yet-unmentioned choice:

Gollum.

For the reasons you give, *Eledhwen,* I agree with your interpretative viewing of Hussein as Sauron and Saruman. 

Gollum comes to mind for Hussein's sneaking around ratholes alone after being tossed out of his own community, for his hasty justification of mass murder based on calling his victims "thieves," for his grovelling upon capture and apparently wanting his "nice masters" the Americans to protect him from his other enemies who confront him with his wickedness.

*Snaga:* 

Well met! * bows a greeting *

Intriguing choice indeed, that of Fëanor. As I was half-way through reading your explanation, I came to the exact conclusion you had regarding why that particular parallel only goes so far.

*(Slightly?) Related Note:* 

Anyone else find it fascinating that the military operation which led to Saddam's capture was called "Red Dawn"?

Made me think immediately of Théoden King's movie lines:



> Let this be the hour when we draw swords together. Fell deeds awake. Now for wrath! Now for ruin! And a red dawn!


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## Snaga (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eledhwen _
> *An imaginative choice.
> 
> Saddam's creativity extended only to his own gilding ... palaces of opulence in a country and a people being torn apart. *


 Brilliant!! Yes... Feanor started to hoard the treasures he created, as oppose to the earlier practice of distributing them widely (eg on the beaches and rock pools on the shores of the Blessed Realm). And yes, the strife in the house of Finwe and the Noldor in general is a good parallel to the fate of Iraq.

I'm beginning to think my analogy is good.

Hi GTG, welcome to TTF I don't think Gollum committed 'mass murder'


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## Gandalf The Grey (Dec 16, 2003)

Nor was Gollum ever captured by Americans, *Snaga.*

As well, Hussein never accused anyone by the name of Baggins of thievery, to the best of my knowledge. 

Though the details naturally differ, the parallel I see lies in the temperament.

Similarly, ... (or should I say, Silmarillionly? * grin * ) ... yes, I see what you mean with your Fëanor analogy.

Thank you for the welcome ... am looking forward to further conversation with you.


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 20, 2003)

I'd have to say that he closely resembles Lotho. Why?

Well they're both malicious hairy people that live in holes!  

Anywhoo... I'd have to say Saruman would be a good analogy:
At the hieght of thier power they were a very serious threat with armies lead by fear. None of his slaves, servants, or ruled people really liked him at all, but just followed machinely through the fear of the punishment he could deal. It really took no great effort to asail thier strongholds (Bagdad/Isengard), and the 'good guys' took full control of, and eventualy patrolled, both capitols. After a slow decline, they were reduced to fleeing across places they once had great control over and stood no fighting chance at all when their greatest enemies overtook them. Of course out of pitty they weren't killed, but in the end they both died from un-natural causes (Saruman stabbed, Sadaam i'm sure will be injected or executed.).


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## Galadriel (Dec 21, 2003)

I would agree with BlackCaptain. I believe Saddam is most like Saruman. He proved to be a strong enemy until he had a fight on his hands. After it became apparent he wasn't going to come out on top he ran and hid in his tower.


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## Eledhwen (Dec 23, 2003)

I think Saruman too.

He just never got powerful enough to be compared with Sauron.
Although he was greedy and he fell, Lotho tried to make amends for his fellow hobbits' losses while it was within his power to do so, which is a sign of repentance. Saruman, on the other hand, remained unrepentant and tried to spoil the party right to the last moment. In the end, it was his mean bullying of his closest servant that secured his end.


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## Snaga (Dec 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gandalf The Grey _
> *Nor was Gollum ever captured by Americans, Snaga.
> 
> As well, Hussein never accused anyone by the name of Baggins of thievery, to the best of my knowledge.
> ...


 On the other hand, Gollum was captured by Mordor, and was let go... and was captured by Aragorn and then escaped. So the Gollum analogy would be borne out if Saddam is a free man again soon!


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## Parrot (Dec 23, 2003)

Shelob. 

"Spider-hole"?


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## BlackCaptain (Dec 23, 2003)

Haha wonderful observation Parrot.


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## Helcaraxë (Dec 25, 2003)

BlackCaptain said:


> None of his slaves, servants, or ruled people really liked him at all, but just followed machinely through the fear of the punishment he could deal.





Really? They were chanting "Saddam is in our hearts, Saddam is in our blood" AFTER he was captured. Of course, the Americans responded, "Saddam is in our jail!" .


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