# Best leaders among Men



## Confusticated (Jul 22, 2004)

Who would you name as the very best of leaders among Men?


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## Ingwë (Jul 15, 2005)

Well, Nóm, in the thread TTF memories you said _'Having countless book discussion threads that I started get zero replies.' (Bad) _You've started interesting threads so I decided to post 

I think the Best leader among the Men was Elendil the Tall. His decision to leave Númenor and to Middle earth was of great importance for the history of the Middle earth. He escaped and thus he saved the Númenoreans. He helped Gil-Galad and the free peoples. His son- Isildur - saved the tree... I think it was Nimlot  Great leader!


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## Inderjit S (Jul 15, 2005)

Isildur may have saved the tree-but he also kept the ring!  

IMO, it is Hurin, strong and brave but at the same time gentle and kind-he treated "weaker" peoples such as the Folk of Haleth (though they were his kin) and Sador with kindness and respect-certainly he bettered his "betters" in treating those considered weak or uncomely with kindess and respect and with little condescension!


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## Alatar (Jul 15, 2005)

well, marach was able to lead a people in an orderly fashion, to the west, with only a rumour for hope.
And Haleth led her people passed the mountains of terror.


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## Thorondor_ (Jul 15, 2005)

I would go for Beor; I gues it could be said he is the first ruler to guide his people to freedom from Melkor.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 15, 2005)

Perhaps-but his people had been wondering long before they arrived in Beleriand, whether it be for hundreds of years, or thousands of years, as Tolkien later revised it.

As for Marach-his camp was split into three (and they were only the vanguard of his people-many didn't go to Beleriand) and so there may have been other leaders, or sub-leaders guiding them too. 

And Haleth did display valor when she led her people past the mountains of terror, but she also could have moved up north closer to Caranthir (or any of his brothers) or to Estolad. And isn't the greatness of a leader also judged by how they keep their people safe?


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## Aiglos (Jul 17, 2005)

Hurin...without a doubt. His bravery and defiance were an inspiration to all those who followed him and with his brother he saved the host of Turgon from almost certain destruction and allowed (at least for a time) the survival of Gondolin.He had a very unfortunate and unhappy life though. I think the moment when he and his wife are finally reunited and then pass on is the apex of grief and the fullest expression of the horror and despair of the hopeless struggle against Morgoth before the War of Wrath.


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## ingolmo (Jul 22, 2005)

Have any of you ever considered Aragorn? I think that he, along with Elendil and Bregor were the best rulers.


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## Inderjit S (Jul 27, 2005)

Yes-Aragorn is considered to be the greatest of the descendants of Elendil, apart from Isildur's eldest son perhaps.


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## baragund (Jul 29, 2005)

I would also point out Aragorn's efforts to reconcile with the Easterlings and Southrons after the War of the Ring as a singular act of leadership that is not found elsewhere in the mythology. Usually, you have your battle lines drawn never to be crossed.


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## Arata (Sep 15, 2005)

Why should the eldest son of Isildur be considered great? I wonder where you get this knowledge.

Furthermore I would like to state that a lot is unknown about many characters in Tolkien's works. You can't declare someone to be the greatest, the most valiant, the strongest or whatever except when there is an explicit reference about it by Tolkien himself.


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## Inderjit S (Sep 21, 2005)

A lot of this is very subjective, since opinions on what constitutes great or greatness is up to each individual, some may consider this great and some that.

Isildur's son was said to be the noblest descendant of Elendil along with Aragorn, and was said to be much like him. (But then again so was Denethor.) Deeds alone are (perhaps) not enough to be called the greatest, even though Elendur's deeds weren't as great as the deeds of others, Galadriel is listed amongst the greatest of the Eldar, and yet her deeds were not as great as many others, though she may have been wiser, nobler etc.


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## Snaga (Sep 21, 2005)

Easier to list some of the worst (The Nine, Turin, Denethor, Uldor, Earnur, Ar-Pharazon, Tar-Atanamir etc)

Some men are great, but do not achieve it as leaders (e.g. Beren). Some are great men, but fail as leaders (Tar-Palantir). Hurin is very noble, but much of time he is sundered from his people. I'm very impressed with Haleth. But I need more time to answer this question...

Of course, being the 'best leader' doesn't mean that the results of your leadership must be the greatest deeds, perhaps. I could perhaps make a strong case for Eorl the Young.


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## Inderjit S (Sep 21, 2005)

How is Turin one of the worst? Elrond lists him as one of the greatest!


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## Maerbenn (Sep 22, 2005)

Snaga said:


> Hurin is very noble


Like when he arguably caused the end of the House of Haleth?


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## Inderjit S (Sep 22, 2005)

Give the guy a break, he had been in Angband for 28 years after he defied Morgoth-most Elves couldn't even do that, and he never conceded defeat to him, though he was blinded by his lies. Also he never caused the destruction of the Haladin by himself, the leaders of the Haladin managed to bring that upon themselves by their actions.


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## Snaga (Sep 22, 2005)

Inderjit S said:


> How is Turin one of the worst? Elrond lists him as one of the greatest!


In a word: Nargothrond.

He is a great man, but a useless leader.


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## Inderjit S (Sep 23, 2005)

Yeah-well, it was not his fault that Orodreth was such an unworthy Finwean.  I bet if Felagund, Fingon, Maedhros or any other Finwean with an ounce of authority was in charge, Turin would never had as much power as he did. But I do agree with you about his stupid antics as a captain of Nargothrond, but to be fair to the guy he did improve his band of outlaws somewhat, and this at least gives him some credo as a leader.


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## Snaga (Sep 24, 2005)

So, Turin was a great platoon leader and a lousy general? I think that counts him out of the greatest leader contest!


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