# If Tolkien Were Maia Who Would be His Valar?



## Gloranthan (Dec 9, 2022)

My bet is Istari, sent to teach men through wisdom rather than exercise power. Irmo (Lorien) would be his Valar. Any other views?


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

Vairë. He knows so much of the History of Arda...

Irmo's influence is too subtle, although I guess we could say that Tolkien himself was a subtle one, and left many things open to interpretation.

Another could be Yavanna; he was a lover of nature, if I remember correctly.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 9, 2022)

Tolkien loved nature more than me. I like industrialism, though not necessarily its corruption for pursuit of political power.
Tolkien was very interested in tying the history of Arda into Earth, so there's some logic to that.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

Industrialism could have been Aulë's part until it got corrupted by Morgoth.


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## Ent (Dec 9, 2022)

I'm struggling a bit with the primary question.
The Valar were the Ainur who chose to enter Ea. Maiar and Ainur are different altogether, Maiar being servants of the Ainur.

So if Tolkien were Maiar, he could not be Valar. 

Istari were also Maiar...just assigned to a different role. 

Of course, Tolkien himself said he was a Hobbit in all but size, so if we want to speculate, given he created an entire world and all the beings in it including Eru, I'd say...well... he's a bit above them all somehow. 😁


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## Gloranthan (Dec 9, 2022)

Ent said:


> I'm struggling a bit with the primary question.
> The Valar were the Ainur who chose to enter Ea. Maiar and Ainur are different altogether, Maiar being servants of the Ainur.
> 
> So if Tolkien were Maiar, he could not be Valar.
> ...


What I meant was which Valar would be the boss of Maia Tolkien, and what kind of Maia would he be. Sorry if that was unclear.
He also said Faramir was his closest author avatar.


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## Ent (Dec 9, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> What I meant was which Valar would be the boss of Maia Tolkien


Oh, sorry. no not unclear at all. An Entish misreading - not enough ent-draughts yet...! I'll go back to the question shortly.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

Of course, seeing how he'd created quite a lot of things, let's not forget that he could serve Manwë also.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 9, 2022)

Vairë said:


> Of course, seeing how he'd created quite a lot of things, let's not forget that he could serve Manwë also.


Of course, everyone who isn't a bad guy is Manwe's servant, as he is the vice regent of Eru. But, of course, you mean his direct subordinate as opposed to someone on his team.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

Gloranthan said:


> his direct subordinate


Yes, perhaps second to Eonwë in that sense.


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## Ent (Dec 9, 2022)

So here's my view:
From SIL:
"Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He too dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience."

Now... when the Istari were being selected to be sent, we read each of their Valar. But none is cited for Olórin. Rather he is selected by Manwe himself to go, though Olórin is reluctant. Manwe nonetheless convinces/instructs him to do so.

Olórin's wisdom, breadth of vision, actions and more also are very similar to Manwe's.

My thought would be Olórin is indeed a Maia of Manwe.


So Tolkien, having created Olórin, would also be a Maia of Manwe.

That's the best I've got. Tolkien just seems 'wise' and 'broadly sighted' to me.
p.s. - just as Olórin was reluctant to go, not thinking he had the power or ability to withstand Sauron, Tolkien was reluctant to finish anything, not thinking he had the moxy or 'perfection' in his work to present it.)


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

Manwë's a highly likely one indeed, considering how much he knew.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 9, 2022)

Olorin is a spirit of fire. Does that mean Evil Tolkien is a Balrog? 😂


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## Ent (Dec 9, 2022)

Hum. An interesting thought. What would Tolkien be as a corrupted Maia. 
Ah. Got it. Like all corrupted Maia without their leader (except Sauron) he'd go into hiding and never publish his works..!!


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

I...would not wish to dwell upon that!

Don't let him appear in any of my tapestries!


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## Gloranthan (Dec 9, 2022)

Ent said:


> Hum. An interesting thought. What would Tolkien be as a corrupted Maia.
> Ah. Got it. Like all corrupted Maia without their leader (except Sauron) he'd go into hiding and never publish his works..!!


GRRM LOL.
But, really, a lot of fantasy post LOTR could be Tolkien corrupted by industrialism. Mass production of soulless knock offs. Like Orcs.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

This saddens me; would such not be his fate.


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## ZehnWaters (Dec 9, 2022)

If Tolkien were a Maia his Vala would be Ómar, also called Amillo, Vala of Language and Songs. He didn't make it into the final conception of the Legendarium, but there it is.


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## 🍀Yavanna Kementári🍀 (Dec 9, 2022)

Ah, Ómar. I still remember him...


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