# Post Counts



## Beorn

Where do you feel post counts should *NOT* count?

If you pick either of the last two options, I better not see your name under anything else .

Remember this is a public poll. Your votes will be shown.

This is a survey, not a decision .


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## HLGStrider

Whatever you do, I will still have the most, Beorn, and you know it. Mu ha ha ha. . ..

Anyway, I voted.


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## Aldanil

*Re: My Decision (Not a Survey)*

Because I could not (like that ever-rueful Englishman
in Frost's "yellow wood") choose either of those last
two opinions wiv'out thence depriving me of the other,

I didn't cast a vote at all.

I am however emboldened to inquire: how does it *matter*
anyway, and what is the purpose intended by thy *asking?*

None of these questions are meant as sarcastic or rhetorical,
so to plain-put it simply: What's yer point there, Man-bear?


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## Ingwë

Oooops, I voted for 'Archives'. That was mistake. Elgee, would you edit the poll? I wanted to vote for Stuff and Bother and the Inns 
We have a lot of thread about the post count  Post Count Credit , Post Counter , Post Count Removal Trial, Post Counter , Posts , --<A Note on Post Counts>-- but Mike said *'This is a survey, not a decision*' 
I see no reason post counts not to count in the 'Archives' We have Tolkien - related threads there and announcement


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## Wraithguard

New Members... nuff said


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## Confusticated

I feel the need to explain my vote. I voted for the "nowhere" and the "everywhere" options, but I ment it in a "nowhere OR everywhere" way. 

I just happen to think these ways are the fairest. 

And what does a post being counted say about that post? That it is somehow more valid because it is counted? If so, I don't think its wise to deem any of them invalid or less important when members will always disagree about what should and shouldn't be counted.

----
ps - In the past I have thought some of the decisions about where posts do not count seemed arbitrary or unfair. For example they did not count in the Green Dragon or the Prancing Pony, both of which did contain some very Tolkien related content. This seemed wrong due to the fact that the justification for not counting posts in these forums was that they were said to be off topic. Not all of it was off topic. And then even if so what about places like Entmoot or Announcements? Very few are Tolkien related, its mostly site related. (I note that the Green Dragon has since changed and now days Tolkien Inns are to be held in the RPG forum. Additionally there are places in the Halls of Tolkienology for fanfics, but there is still Middle-earth related poetry allowed in the Pony.)


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## Arlina

I voted for everywhere because I believe a post is a post, though some don't have anything to do with Tolkien, it's still a post.


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## Beorn

Nóm said:


> I feel the need to explain my vote. I voted for the "nowhere" and the "everywhere" options, but I ment it in a "nowhere OR everywhere" way.



I think we should've left your name Confusticated 

And Elgee....I can always edit your profile and turn yours down to 0 

OK...My reasons for putting each on the poll:

New Members: People used to greet every single new member to increase their post count. I don't think we need this anymore though. 
S & B: This is _The Tolkien Forum_, not _The Miscellaneous Forum_ 
Inns: They're often chat threads, or unrelated 
Archives: some people feel the post count should reflect more current posts 
RPGs: Some people feel RPGs deviate too far from Tolkien 
Everywhere but ...: A more puritanical view 
No post count: a post count isn't a real judge of a person 
Posts count everywhere: a post is a post is a post.


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## HLGStrider

I really don't like the newmember section. There doesn't seem to be much worthwhile that occurs there and there is a lot of double posting when a member posts a "hi" thread, waits a half hour, is hurt that no one has replied yet, and posts again asking why no one else has posted. Drives me nuts!

Stuff and bother, I don't mind that being non-posted, but it doesn't really matter.

Prancing Pony SHOULD count. It's an excellent thread.


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## baragund

I voted for posts counting everywhere. There hasn't been much problem with SPAM posts recently (as far as I could tell) so I don't see a problem with counting them all.


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## Jesse

I say they should count everywhere


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## ingolmo

The only places where always non-Tolkien talk occur: Stuff and Bother and the New Members. Those shouldn't be counted. 
But Nom does have a point, though he the word 'confusticated' does suit him very well.


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## Ingwë

Beorn said:


> #*8*


Hehehe... I didn't know that vB allows editing the posts for certain member... 


New members - I have no idea... But you're right that some members use that section to increase their post count. What do you mean? We don't need that section?
Stuff and Bother: no post count...
Inns: no post count
Archives: let me see...*Archives : Threads* -> The Works of J.R.R. Tolkien, New Line Cinema's 'LOTR' Trilogy It must count there
RPGs: they are Tolkien related. The post count should count there
Post count everywhere Everywhere: this will increase the posts in the off-topic sections
Nowhere: yes, it is not judge for a person. The most important is the quality of the posts, not their number. But I am a member of a forum that post count is off... I don't know why but I don't like it...
Btw yesterday I had 408 posts, today they were 415... What did you do?


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## Confusticated

ingolmo said:


> But Nom does have a point, though he the word 'confusticated' does suit him very well.


_Her_...  

... but yes it does! 



------

I just want to say something.

I've never liked people saying that folks welcome New Members to raise their count. I used to post there more frequently than I do now days (back when I was more active in discussions)... periodically I would go and say hi to the most recent people, especially those who had zero or only one welcome so far. This was done 100 percent out of wanting new members to feel welcome, and I do resent the assumption myself or others who acted for the same motive were doing so to raise our post count. I have said this before though, and no one ever agrees. But frankly, to not see the value of new members seems narrow-sighted to me and I suspect you all do see the value, but to not understand why making them feel welcome will enrich the forum is a mystery. And even further, if anyone remembers reading a large number of welcomes, you might recall that often myself, and probably others, did not always give generic welcomes but we replied to something specific the new members said or something about his location or in his profile to make it feel less generic... this is not the action of a spammer IMO. Now there may have been a few welcomers who have spammed there, but IMO it was the exception and not the general rule, and it shouldn 't be judged by how many folks somebody welcomes.


------

Okay and one more thing 

Folks will never agree on what is and is not deserving of being counted, so counting zero or all is the only way to go!   I don't want someone getting to decide my RPG posts or for instance HLG's various discussions on writing shouldn 't count!


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## Luthien Elenese

hmmm... i voted for everywhere as it seemed fairest, but there was a problem with spam back on MERPG, so I don't know about chatter/non-Tolkien related threads. As long as your post is valid, I feel it should count.


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## Gil-Galad

That is an old problem....as far as I can remember we discussed it 2 years ago or something like that   

Honestly I want to ask this question:Why do we need post count?Is the amount of posts the reason for being here?

I read Nom's post and it seems to me that her words are just in the target.....

IMHO if there is any post count it should only concern sections about Tolkien.And I still can not understand the people who want the off-topic sections to be counted-is it so important ?I hope quantity is not more important than quality on these boards.Furthermore,eventual post count of the non-Tolkien sections will just stimulate the chit-chatting ....and trust me there will be always people who would prefer to write one-two-three-four posts there,just for fun and to improve their "score" than to spend some time to read the serious things and write something concerning Tolkien.

On the other side Nom is right-there are some parts in the Tokien-section which are not exactly concerning Tolkien and do not "deserve"  to be counted.

That's a kind of impossible situation...but I hope that the non-topic stuff will not be counted,because this place will become a chatting-place with some Tolkien around it.And as far as I can remember the right proportion from some time ago was :Tolkien related place with some chit-chat....


And the best would be if there is no post count.....


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## Thorondor_

I think that the post count, along with the "join date" are something of a formal prestige in this community. I agree with GG that the post count should be used as a sort of a leverage to prevent an undue amount of nonsense, non-Tolkien talk.


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## Firawyn

I choose post counts should count everywhere.

If people choose to boost their post count in places like 'new members' members will know that's what they do, and it wont earn them anything.

In general, I think that new members try to find their nitch in places that are not strictly Tolkien, thus their post count does not increse, and they are discouraged and leave. 

See my point?


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## HLGStrider

Yeah, and it is a pain to answer all the posts that pop up with "Hey, I posted and my number didn't go up! Why?"


I recently have been editting Entmoot and I found about twenty of those threads.


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## Firawyn

Btw, Elgee..was it you that chopped the 'guess the pic' thread. We had like, 200 pages...and now we have three. My post count went down ALOT when that happened. I'm proud of what I'm learning there! Don't steal my posts!


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## HLGStrider

The thing is new members will often not use a thread just because it is too long. They see ten pages think, "Gosh, I could never read all that" and then they avoid the thread. This is why most game threads die. I also cut down the Movie Quote game and a couple of others. I plan to archive the prayer request thread in a bit (I don't delete this one for various reasons) and start another thread. 

There is a certain point when a thread's length works against it.


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## Wolfshead

You make a post, your Post Count goes up by 1. That's what it's for, that's what it should do. It should be a measure of how many posts you've made on the forum. So I voted Everywhere.


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## Valandil

HLGStrider said:


> ... I plan to archive the prayer request thread in a bit (I don't delete this one for various reasons) and start another thread...



Splitting is a nice tool for that. You could split off the last page or two - so that anything still current stays on there - and throw in the opening post if applicable (or edit it to make it applicable). 

PS - and I voted for all posts to count. What's the big deal... if people want to spam up their post counts, it's better they don't do it in the Tolkien threads alone.


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## Ingwë

*What.... the post count increased?*

I saw that my post count increased and other post counts, too. Does the post count count everywhere _now_?


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## Wolfshead

Ingwë said:


> I saw that my post count increased and other post counts, too. Does the post count count everywhere _now_?


It's definately been allowed somewhere - my count's just jumped by more than 250!


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## Valandil

* goes to kitchen *
* opens upper cabinet, takes out can of worms and sets on countertop *
* opens drawer, takes out can-opener *
* begins to open can of worms *

i'm surprised nobody said posts in the movie forums shouldn't count!


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## Arvedui

Nowhere.
I just don't see any reason to count posts. What's the point?


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## Ingwë

Where is the problem with the post count? We hadn't got problems till the discussion... There were many discussions early (you know, Arvedui, you're here for three years...) but probably the administrators want to see the vision of the new members (like me. I am here for one year). And Nóm is right: post count should count everywhere or nowhere if we want to chenge the options


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## Arvedui

I see no problem with the post-count. But I see no point in them either.
That is why I voted like I did.

I have seen members with numerous posts that have been rather inactive in the Tolkien-part of this forum, and I have seen members with few posts coming up with the most marvelous piece of work.
Post-counts say nothing at all about a member, so why bother?


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## Ingwë

Ingwë said:


> Nowhere: yes, it is not judge for a person. *The most important is the quality of the posts, not their number. *But I am a member of a forum that post count is off... I don't know why but I don't like it...




Well, I think that's enough.


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## Confusticated

Option - All posts that contain _"Feanor is [positive adjective]"_ cause the post count to be reduced by 20 percent.

Umm... I just remembered the time post counts were removed for a trial period, and someone (Aule?) pointed out to me that a member wrote me into _The Totally Ridiculous Story_ and murdered me for the post count being removed! 

 

It has always seemed that more people are more strongly in favor of keeping them than there are in favor of gitting rid of em, so I figure maybe keeping is best, though not my personal preference.

Honestly, can you see somebody including a person's murder in their fiction for the post count being _kept_ ?  hehe!


And moreover it wasn't even my fault!


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## Inderjit S

> Option - All posts that contain "Feanor is [positive adjective]" cause the post count to be reduced by 20 percent.



Nom-I see this is a personal attack on myself, why don't you add "Homoerotic references to Noldorin princes" and "Pedantic Essays on Noldorin Princes" to that list of posts which cause the post count to go down by 20%!   

(P.S Like Galadriel, Nom is CLEARLY in love with Feanor and is trying to hide it behind a facade of hate. )

As for the subject being discussed here-it is nice to have a high (ish) post count, I guess, but as Arvedui said, there are many members who have a low post count but make better posts than some with higher post counts.


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## Gil-Galad

Arvedui said:


> I see no problem with the post-count. But I see no point in them either.
> That is why I voted like I did.
> 
> I have seen members with numerous posts that have been rather inactive in the Tolkien-part of this forum, and I have seen members with few posts coming up with the most marvelous piece of work.
> Post-counts say nothing at all about a member, so why bother?



Wise words my King.

But it seems that for most of the people here the post count is of great importance.That is the only way I can explain why most vote for everywhere.....


And once again these boards are about to lose part of their charm.....it is really sad when the off-topic,chit-chatting etc, become bigger and bigger part of TTF......





> Yeah, and it is a pain to answer all the posts that pop up with "Hey, I posted and my number didn't go up! Why?"


Elgee,it is not that big problem if you have to answer such kind of posts.it can be written in the rules,an announcement could be placed in the off-topic areae saying that there is no post count there,etc. And even if you have to reply to more question of this sort-just take it easy-you are a mod  you are supposed to answer to such kind of things-it is your job  .

And besides,please,tell me you are not serious....i mean saying: "let's have post count everywhere,because "it is a pain to answer all the posts that pop up with "Hey, I posted and my number didn't go up! Why?" can't be a serious reason for making the post count work everywhere.....


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## HLGStrider

Gosh, I had forgotten how sick and funny that Ridiculous story was. . .

Everyone should read that thread! It'll make them go nuts.

I still like my little number. I do maintain a hugish amount of posts. I don't mind them being deleted so often. I used to joke that the moderators watched my post and when it hit a certain land mark they knew it was time for "spring cleaning."


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## Gil-Galad

HLGStrider said:


> Everyone should read that thread! It'll make them go nuts.



Well,I do not have to read it as well as the other 2100 members here,because you are a moderator...   

By the way, the poll given like is not precise in a way.As a whole the problem is between post count everywhere vs. post count almost everywhere.But the option "post count almost everywhere" is divided into different options.Having in mind the methodes of social-science research concerning polls,this poll does not provide the actual result ,because the "everywhere" option is concentrated in one choice while the "almost everywhere" not.

If you gather all votes for restriction of the post count,no matter in which sections,you will see that there are more people who are against "everywhere" ....


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## Gil-Galad

> Bars and Inns-452.37
> The Green Dragon-73.41
> The Ivy Bush-106.86
> The Golden Perch-46.83
> The Prancing Pony-32.68
> The Forsaken Inn-59.25
> Stuff and Bother-800.09 ( )



That's some statistical info from here: http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?p=455353#post455353 

So even now the off-topic sections are the ones with most posts and etc. The question iso we,our moderators,and administrators-Ivan,Mike and Dave want to see more and more off-topic instead of Tolkien stuff,by making the post count everywhere????

This analysis shows pretty good that the main purpose of the TTF and a huge amout of the members here has changed  ....obviosly it is not discussing/reading things about Tolkien and his world,but having a nice chit-chatting time.....


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## Firawyn

@ Gil -

I really don't think there is a question of statistics. If you want to get technical about that, then look at how much MORE posts are Tolkien discussions now that the movie fan freakazoids have all but left.


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## HLGStrider

I really have never believed posting rates change in forums dramatically when you put a post count on them. People post where they want to post, post count or no post count. They aren't going to alter their behavior because of it.

The only difference is, of course, the occasional person who would spam to get to the 100 post avatar limit. This was always obviously intentional.


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## Gil-Galad

HLGStrider said:


> I really have never believed posting rates change in forums dramatically when you put a post count on them. People post where they want to post, post count or no post count. They aren't going to alter their behavior because of it.


So,if they are not going to alter it,why to stimulate them even more?This amout of off-topic posts is more than enough-why to stimulate the more posting there?

Keeping the way it was -no count in the off-topic,for sure will not have a stimulating effect...... .


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## HLGStrider

The point of my post is that it will not stimulate it, so don't worry about it.

We have always had post counts (in my time here), and I still think they are fun. I check them minimally now because there are fewer people to compare to and it sort of became "improper" to brag/joke/tease about post counts.


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## Firawyn

HLGStrider said:


> The only difference is, of course, the occasional person who would spam to get to the 100 post avatar limit. This was always obviously intentional.



That rule is a load of **** anyhow. Take it away, and you have no problem.


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## HLGStrider

I have been told that one of the reasons for it is because there was a form of spam going on once to sign up a member with an obscene avatar and then spam the board with it. I don't believe this has ever happened however.


Of course, Avs aren't that important to me. I resisted getting one when they were introduced.


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## Wolfshead

HLGStrider said:


> I have been told that one of the reasons for it is because there was a form of spam going on once to sign up a member with an obscene avatar and then spam the board with it. I don't believe this has ever happened however.


In all the years I've been using forums I've _never_ seen that happen. And if it were to, in a properly moderated forum, it would only be a matter of minutes before it was spotted and removed.


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## HLGStrider

It was just when the avatars were first introduced that a person started posting "one" "two" "three" in separate posts counting to a hundred. It was deleted, but some people are smarter than that. I once told the mods that if I wanted to there are a couple hundred dozen ways to run up a post count without really looking like you were doing that.


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## Beorn

We don't have that rule anymore....


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## Gil-Galad

HLGStrider said:


> It was just when the avatars were first introduced that a person started posting "one" "two" "three" in separate posts counting to a hundred. It was deleted, but some people are smarter than that. I once told the mods that if I wanted to there are a couple hundred dozen ways to run up a post count without really looking like you were doing that.



yes they are,but let's not create a new couple of hundred dozen ways to run op a post count...especially when it is about OFF-topic and NON-Tolkien stuff.......otherwise we are really risking it this place to become chit-chat place with some Tolkien....

since last summer some really great people have not posted at these boards,and have chosen to write things about Tolkien at other places,but not here,mainly because TTF has changed a lot from the forum it was two-three years ago....

That's a question which should be decided by Dave,Mike,Ivan....what do we want from TTF-a place for people who love Tolkien and enjoy writing about him..or a place for people,gathered by the idea of discussing Tolkien,but chit-chatting about everything but Tolkien......


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## HLGStrider

The thing is Gil, we have lost half of those good members because we were too strict with non-topic and half because they didn't think we were strict enough. We can't please everybody on any topic.

I also still refuse to believe that taking the post counts off non-Tolkien forums in anyway increases posting activity.


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## Ingwë

I was away for a week and I will be away for one more week, but today I'm home so I decided to visit TTF. What did I see?




Code:


[left][b][u]Forum									Last post [/u][/b][/left]
[b]The Hobbit								[i]07-23-2005 [/i][/b]
[b]The Lord of the Rings							[i]Today[/i][/b]
[b]The Silmarilion								 [i]Today[/i][/b]
[b]The History of Middle earth					 [i]07-21-2005 [/i][/b]
[b]Other Works by Tolkien						 [i]07-23-2005[/i][/b]

 


Code:


[b][u]Forum								Last post[/u][/b]
[b]The Green Dragon						 [i]Today[/i][/b]
[b]The Ivy Bush							[i]Today[/i][/b]
[b]The Golden Perch						 [i]07-16-2005 [/i][/b]
[b]The Prancing Poney						 [i]Today[/i][/b]
[b]The Forsaken Inn						 [i]Today[/i][/b]
[b]Stuff and Bother					 [i]Yesterday :confused: [/i][/b]

 
I don't want to talk about *The Halls of Tolkienology* because there are few posts there though this is great section with great projects...


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## Arvedui

I can't make myself to get all heated up about the way TTF is run, just because people are leaving.
No-one is forced to stay around here, are they? With the exeption of Dave, perhaps...

And in my opinion, it is as simple as this:
If you don't like the way things are moving, then make an effort to keep things the way you like.
Like I have said a number of times: TTF is what *we* make it!


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## Ingwë

Arvedui said:


> Like I have said a number of times: TTF is what *we* make it!


Arvedui, probably this is the best post in this thread. Yes, the [highlight]live[/highlight] is what _*we*_ make it and TTF is part of our life (for all active members). So let's make this place better


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## Telëlambe

The post count is strange to me, so while i think they are essential as a respect kinda thing, more posts demands more respect (and NOT arogance) and more experience. However i dont know where people who have joined at times very recently having insane post counts??? I come on here just about every day and i only have a crummy count of around 130 ish ??? oh well. 

And i think, with this being the tolkien forum, if its not about tolkien and his works, there shouldnt be a post count.


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## AraCelebEarwen

Well I would have said the Inns, archives, new members and a few others... but I can't so I won't. 

Teleambe, I think you could call it 'diving in head first'. It's great fun right up until you hit a rock!!!  For the most part I try to make my posts be worth something, but I can't always help being a little silly and or 'bored'. (sorry, that's a dangerous word  )

Should posts count? I feel a little odd when I see that I have so many more posts then some of the older members! I never intend to offend anyone by my 'being so far ahead' but trust me, just 'cause I have so many doesn't mean much! I don't know nearly as much about Tolkien and Middle Earth as I would like and that plays a part in my shying out of discussions and things. Anyway, here's another post that can or can't count. I guess I don't really care...


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## Firawyn

Telëlambe said:


> And i think, with this being the tolkien forum, if its not about tolkien and his works, there shouldnt be a post count.



In reference to this. The way I see it, yes this is the 'tolkien' forum, but that is our major common bond, it doens't define us (well, not all of us!  ), it's just a part. Why should a post not count just because it's not 'tolkien'.

That would be like in the US history, the blacks were not 'counted'. They could not vote, go the same places, etc. They were still people, but they didn't count.

A post is a post, like a persin is a person.


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## Arthur_Vandelay

Firawyn said:


> Hello? Hello? Is this thing on? *thump, thump* Ah! There we go! I'd like to make and announcment: Barley is not coming back.



Behave yourself.


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## Ingwë

Firawyn said:


> In reference to this. The way I see it, yes this is the 'tolkien' forum, but that is our major common bond, it doens't define us (well, not all of us!  ), it's just a part. Why should a post not count just because it's not 'tolkien'.
> That would be like in the US history, the blacks were not 'counted'. They could not vote, go the same places, etc. They were still people, but they didn't count.
> A post is a post, like a persin is a person.


The American history is not like this forum. The blacks were killed and they had many problems. This is a forum. And the name of the forum is *The Tolkien Forum*. I think you know what I would say so I won't write it.


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## Telëlambe

My High Elven friend is right. 
There is no way you can compair the two, and anyway, that would be like saying... Harry potter fans can't post. (which i am NOT saying by the way.)
That would be discluding them for what they are, which i did not mean at all, I think anyone intrested in Tolkiens works should share their what they know and learn from everyone else. As Tolkien as you say is our common bond, posts should count only with regards to our common bond: Tolkien.


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## Firawyn

you guys sound like my mother...  

Yada, yada, maybe that wa sa bad example. In short, the admins took politics and such off the board, and that's fine. Now is it just me, or is this turning into a political descussion?  




> Behave yourself



I refuse.


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## Eledhwen

I don't see why someone should get post count increments for stuff like "LOL That was funny!" in some chat thread, but neither do I care if they do. 

When poll counts are given only in Tolkien-related threads, then hopefully those who've used these boards to increase their Tolkien knowledge over the years will be kind to the new member with three posts to their name, who asks blindingly obvious questions or opens yet another thread on whether balrogs have wings (actually, I think it's been a while...>> goes off to open a thread on whether balrogs have wings..)


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## Telëlambe

Here Here!
Thats what i love about this place, the more knowlageable people are quite happy to entertain the newer members in order for everyone to gain more knowlage of Tolkien, which i see as the entire point of this place. 

(however tedious the threads on Balrogs wings are after the nine hundredth post)


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## Firawyn

I agree that it's nice to have a place where people are knowlagable about Tolkien, but I don't think that's any reason to not include the other discussions.

Btw, about the chit chating, I've often wondered if this forum should have a SayBot. It a free forum feature that is more or less like a forum chat room, and it displays at the very bottem. I run a Star Wars RPing forum, and we use it to say things like 'I'll be gone this week' or to discuss plot lines, as well as just BSing. TTF might find one of these usful to reduce the BS on the boards. It would not increse the post count for non Tolkien, but it would still give members the freedom to chat with fellow forum memebers lightheartedly.I think I PMed Beorn about the idea at one point but I never got a reply. Any thoughts on weather or not this might be usful? To veiw a SayBot look HERE 

Over and out!
Fir-


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## Barliman Butterbur

Firawyn said:


> Hello? Hello? Is this thing on? *thump, thump* Ah! There we go! I'd like to make an announcement: Barley is not coming back.



The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated...

...and _all_ posts should be counted...

_Back into the shadows..._

Barley


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## Elorendil

I agree that post counts have a certain amount of prestige that go along with them. For many people, myself included, there is also an element of pride that goes along with the count. I know I was quite bummed, as were many others, when I lost my post count of nearly 800 during the merge of MERPG.

That being said, I don't think post counts should be turned off all together. I can see some benefits in turning them off in non-Tolkien sections (non-Tolkien sections being the Stuff and Bother and New Members sections. IMHO, RPs _should_ be counted, as they _are_ based on Tolkien). I, at least, would be less inclined to spend my time posting in these sections if I knew my posts wouldn't be counted.


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## Rosalee LuAnn

*Putting it quite frankly*, I don't understand the whole 'thing' about post counts. Go ahead and make all the places I post not add to the post count, I couldn't care less.  

Like El, I just recently came over from MERPG. I can't even remember what my post count was, actually. Somewhere around 500, maybe? Somthing quite average, not big, not small, just there, and if it hadn't been there I wouldn't have cared.

Not that I post much of anywhere here, other in the role-playing section. I guess that, if I did post alot and spend alot of time here (more than I do now) then I might want something to show for it, but as it is, I don't. I'm here to have _fun_, not to see how many posts I can fling up in a given amount of time.


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## Eledhwen

Barliman Butterbur said:


> The news of my death has been greatly exaggerated...
> Barley


Pleased to hear it! And glad to see you're here on the mouse, if not on the keyboard.



Rosalee LuAnn said:


> I'm here to have fun, not to see how many posts I can fling up in a given amount of time.


Hear Hear!


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## Uminya

Wow, it's this time of year again? I could have sworn it was still July...


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## Wolfshead

To spark this back to life again... why not have posts count everywhere? It's hardly an accurate portrayal of posts if so many don't actually contribute to the *post count*


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## Ithrynluin

You know, I'm tempted to turn post counts on everywhere and just end the pain over this argument once and for all. Hmmm...


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## Wolfshead

I think you should  

I'm not that bothered by post counts myself, I just don't see the reasoning in having it turned on in some places and not in others.

I also used to have nigh on 2000 posts, but forum pruning and disabling in certain sections put pay to that. 750-ish posts in 3 and a half years isn't actually all that impressive


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## Ithrynluin

I'll see what WM thinks about the idea...


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## Wolfshead

Ithrynluin said:


> I'll see what WM thinks about the idea...


Jolly good. Let us know how that goes


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## Arvedui

Why not turn it *off* everywhere instead?
That would end the argument as well...


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## Gothmog

I agree with Élhendi, if there are no post-counts there is no reason for the argument.


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## HLGStrider

I really hadn't seen that there was an argument that needed ended all the desparately either way. . . 
But mole hills tend to errupt into mountains on this forum.


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## Uminya

Turn them off and be done with it, as I've stated elsewhere. I can't believe that it's even an issue, something so pointless. You don't need it, so there's nothing to keep complaining about.


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## Firawyn

no way, keep post counts, at last as they are now, if not turn them on everywhere. By keeping post counts, it encourages people to - hey - continue posting.


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## e.Blackstar

Whatever the decision is, I think it should be total. Either count _every_ post, or none at all.


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## AraCelebEarwen

*from the back of the room a hand slowly raises*

Why does it matter? It's just a number that is hardly noticed but fun to see when it's looked for... Does anything have to change? Really, can't it just be left alone? I don't really stand for one or the other I guess... Prefer to stay out of the way most times...

*cowers and looks for a quick way out of the room*


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## HLGStrider

I think Ara has the most common sense of anyone here. 

It has always baffled me how people can be so militantly against a silly little number. It doesn't give someone privilages. 

We USED to, in the good old days, have fun with it. When someone past a mark, like 1,000 posts, there was a party thrown in their honor, some of which were frankly hilarious. Now this little number has gone from fun and games to a fight topic. Why? I don't know. Maybe because somewhere along the line someone said we should stop having fun.


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## e.Blackstar

I don't really care, but I'm just saying...it should be on one side or another. All counted, or none counted.  

Whatever.


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## baragund

A modest proposal...

A sliding scale of credit for each post by each member would be awarded by a Crediting Committee (perhaps a reincarnation of the C9) based on degree of Tolkien-value and intellectual merit. Standards for such credit would be developed by this committee, based on length of post and degree of analytical thought given to any aspect of Tolkien's life and writings. These standards would certainly be subjective in nature but, after extensive work sessions among the committee, outreach leading to a vote of approval by the full membership (active members, that is) and final ratification by the Moderators, with advice and consent by the Web Master, a mutually agreed Standards of Post Crediting (hereafter known as the SPC) could be applied to each post.

Posts that show an exemplary degree of insight and careful thought into all things Tolkien would be awarded a full post credit of 1.00 while those that fall completely under the definition (as yet to be determined) of SPAM would be awarded a value of 0.00. Intermediate posts would be awarded partial credit to the one hundredth of a point.

Eminently fair, and easy to implement. The SPC could be written and verified with only a few hundred man-hours if everybody works together. If the Crediting Committee was fully staffed, they could administer this program with an individual commitment of certainly no more than a few hours per day.







Or just leave things the way they are.


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## Wolfshead

HLGStrider said:


> It has always baffled me how people can be so militantly against a silly little number. It doesn't give someone privilages.


Exactly. I just don't see why there's any problems with every post counting. I mean, it's still a post, isn't it? Why be concerned with not having posts count in certain areas?


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## e.Blackstar

baragund said:


> A modest proposal...
> 
> A sliding scale of credit for each post by each member would be awarded by a Crediting Committee (perhaps a reincarnation of the C9) based on degree of Tolkien-value and intellectual merit. Standards for such credit would be developed by this committee, based on length of post and degree of analytical thought given to any aspect of Tolkien's life and writings. These standards would certainly be subjective in nature but, after extensive work sessions among the committee, outreach leading to a vote of approval by the full membership (active members, that is) and final ratification by the Moderators, with advice and consent by the Web Master, a mutually agreed Standards of Post Crediting (hereafter known as the SPC) could be applied to each post.
> 
> Posts that show an exemplary degree of insight and careful thought into all things Tolkien would be awarded a full post credit of 1.00 while those that fall completely under the definition (as yet to be determined) of SPAM would be awarded a value of 0.00. Intermediate posts would be awarded partial credit to the one hundredth of a point.
> 
> Eminently fair, and easy to implement. The SPC could be written and verified with only a few hundred man-hours if everybody works together. If the Crediting Committee was fully staffed, they could administer this program with an individual commitment of certainly no more than a few hours per day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or just leave things the way they are.




*laughs* Baragund, baragund, baragund. What _will_ we do with you?


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## Hammersmith

HLGStrider said:


> It has always baffled me how people can be so militantly against a silly little number. It doesn't give someone privilages.


Says the one nearing the 5000 mark! Comrades! The time has come to storm the Bastille and share out the post counts of the bourgeoise with the commoners!


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## HLGStrider

Heck, this is nothing. You should see what I'd have if they took off the restrictions on Prancing Pony and Green Dragon. . .

Dang Socialist Brit . . .

(Note, that is not a political quip but a private joke between myself and Hammysmit.)


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## Arvedui

My point for getting rid of post counts is that every now and then (about four times a year), this stupid discussion rekindles. And the post-count doesn't say anything at all about any persons insight, age, social standing, beliefs or anything when it comes to the core of this Forum: Tolkien.


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## Uminya

Why do we need a slider bar? And why do people think that their number is a representation of their *own* ability to do anything but produce a quantity. Is that quantity useful, or is it meaningless SPAM, I ask you?

People should base their "assessments" on the quality of each individual post, not by a number or someone's social standing. It is easiest do away with the system and have *nothing* in its place. It does not come into your minds that, rather than set up a new Dark Lord of Post Representation, we have no Dark Lord at all. To Utumno with you all!


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## Thorondor_

If some members feel that the post count is irrelevant, then they should have no problem ignoring it completely .


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## Gothmog

The main arguments in this matter revolve around Which parts of the site count in the Post-Count. Indeed until someone brings the question up most of the members who are not interested in Post Counts simply do not take any note of them. One way to avoid the problem returning is to either have all posts counting or No posts counting. Personally I prefer to have none. *shrug*


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## Ithrynluin

Okay, so as not to get bogged down in this discussion yet again, and as the membership is still very much divided on this issue, I'm simply going to close this thread, we're going to keep the current system (which, if nothing else, is at least a compromise between the two extreme points of this issue), and we'll call it quits from now on.

Que sera sera, c'est la vie,... that kinda thing.


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