# The Last Homely House



## Deleted member 12094 (Jul 21, 2020)

The Last Homely House: it’s a mysterious description for Elrond’s house in Rivendell/Imladris, so I was wondering what the deeper meaning of this might be (if there is one at all!).

The name begs two questions which I tried to research with very limited results:

1. What is a “homely house”?​
Likely more than four walls and a roof, but if it refers to elven dwellings then it seems strange that the wonders of Galadriel’s dwelling and surroundings do not appear to qualify for this _Epitheton ornans_. Actually, I have nothing concrete to share… what is it!?​
2. If it’s the “last” homely house, then were there any others?​
In TH the place is called the _“Last Homely House west of the Mountains”_, in LotR the _“Last Homely House east of the Sea”_. The latter appears to suggest that there could be more “homely houses” west of the Sea. However, there is also this somewhat confusing phrase in TH upon the return of Bilbo and Gandalf, possibly suggesting that there might be, after all, just one “homely house”:​​_It was on May the First that the two came back at last to the brink of the valley of Rivendell, where stood the Last (or the First) Homely House._​​BTW, Tyler’s “Companion” (see entry under Vinyamar) calls Turgon’s place the _“First Homely House East of the Sea”_; however, if I looked correctly, then this title “Homely House” is not mentioned anywhere in TS at all…!? I doubt if Tyler's statement is meaningful in this context.​
In conclusion I brought more confusion than information… anyone with better answers than me: due thanks!


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## Olorgando (Jul 21, 2020)

Tom Shippey, in his book "The Road to Middle-earth" (I'm using my 2003 third edition, but this section appears to be unrevised from the second edition), Chapter 4 "A Cartographic Plot", section "Getting Started, has an interesting take on this:

"It is for one thing remarkable that Frodo has to be dug out of no less than five 'Homely Houses' before his quest is properly launched: first Bag End, then the little house at Crickhollow ..., then the house of Tom Bombadil, then the _Prancing Pony_, and finally Rivendell with its 'last Homely House east of the Sea.'"

As JRRT assumes the guise of a translator of old documents basically written by Hobbits, this must be assumed to be their view of what constitutes a 'Homely House' - and the term itself, hardly something to be expected in Elven or Númenórean writings. Now with the Hobbits being quite averse to heights, Galadriel and Celeborn's huge flets would definitely *not* qualify as 'homely', rather more as terrifying. Thranduil's lodgings might fit the bill rather better, though I'm not sure that the Hobbits, while partial to smials, would also be all too fond of burrowings that went as deep underground as those of the Dwarves and Orcs.


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## Alcuin (Jul 21, 2020)

I always regarded it as a name Tolkien invented for his children in his telling them the original version of “The Hobbit”, which he wrote down to avoid changing the story because young Christopher, then four or five years old, was concerned about the details.* But I must now consider the information presented in Olorgando’s post.

There might be some connection, however, to the “Cottage of Lost Play”, a house in Tol Eressëa in which the Eldar recall their tales of Middle-earth, which is recounted in the two volumes of JRR Tolkien’s earliest tales by CJR Tolkien, _The Book of Lost Tales_.

───◊───

* Toward the end of his life, Christopher Tolkien recalled that when he and his siblings gathered to hear their father first tell the tale of Bilbo Baggins and his adventures, he was quite concerned about specific details, as small boys may sometimes be.
I was greatly concerned with petty consistency as the story unfolded, and ... on one occasion I interrupted: “Last time _you said_ Bilbo’s front door was blue, and _you said_ Thorin had a golden tassel on his hood, but you’ve just said that Bilbo’s front door was green, and the tassel on Thorin’s hood was silver,” at which point my father muttered, “Damn the boy,” and then strode across the room to his desk to make a note.​You know, he sounds a great deal like us!


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## Olorgando (Jul 21, 2020)

Alcuin said:


> You know, he sounds a great deal like us!


Yes, we (I) have a bit of young Christopher.
But my nitpicking strictly from memory has waned over the decades. 🤔
And occasionally, when I check somebody else's post against my books (which I should have done *before* saving *my* post!), i find myself echoing _père_: "Damn ..." 🤬


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 21, 2020)

Olorgando said:


> "It is for one thing remarkable that Frodo has to be dug out of no less than five 'Homely Houses' before his quest is properly launched


He's making a case there that these are mostly unnecessary time-markings. I find the argument irritating, I must say, because he ignores the way they fit into the structure of the story -- and the development of Frodo's character in particular. But no matter.


In British usage, "homely" seems to indicate a feeling of comfort, as opposed to say, grandiosity or ostentatiousness -- a feeling of being "homelike", that is, comfortable. But since hobbit-holes are described as meaning "comfort", it seems we must look further.

I suggested on another thread that Rivendell was modeled on the medieval abbey. "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" has this:

_In all the days of the Third Age, after the fall of Gil-galad, Master Elrond abode in Imladris, and he gathered there many Elves, and other folk of wisdom and power from among all the kindreds of Middle-earth, and he preserved through many lives of Men the memory of all that had been fair; and the house of Elrond was a refuge for the weary and the oppressed, and a treasury of good counsel and wise lore._

That seems to me to fit at least the ideal of the the abbey, but wouldn't, for the most part, do for a description of the Shire, which is "comfortable" for hobbits, but certainly not "all the kindreds of Middle-earth". So maybe "homely" means "a place of comfort" -- a place for "the weary and oppressed" to be, not "made comfortable", but to _be comforted._


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## Olorgando (Jul 21, 2020)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> He's making a case there that these are mostly unnecessary time-markings. I find the argument irritating, I must say, because he ignores the way they fit into the structure of the story -- and the development of Frodo's character on particular. But no matter.


Crickhollow and Tom Bombadil went out in the films - one of the decisions I have the least argument with.
I find myself agreeing, and this is certainly with Shippey at least, that JRRT was still muddling his way through a "New Hobbit" until - well, the Council of Elrond. *Possibly* what you term "development of Frodo's character" *could *have been back-writing JRRT did to a limited degree to earlier writing. Though in terms of "education", Frodo would have been the one of the four Hobbits whose eyes were opened the least in the progress to Rivendell. Next least surprised would have been Merry, I think, almost as old as Sam but an inhabitant of Buckland, so far less naïve than Sam. Pippin is a Took, but then the pup of the lot. Both might have reacted to unexpected things with the comment "that's interesting", but Pippin with a curious bent and Sam with "I don't like this strange stuff!"


Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> So maybe "homely" means "a place of comfort" -- a place for "the weary and oppressed" to be, not "made comfortable", but to be comforted.


To be comforted and protected, at least for a time. In that sense of course Lothlórien was a "Homely House", and with the gifts given the members of the Fellowship by far the most important. The last one was Henneth Annûn with Faramir (in the book, not PJ's film garbage!), so there would have been seven in total.
Bag End to the Cracks of Doom straight? No problem for Tulkas, certainly, or Oromë or Aulë. But the collateral damage (Beleriand etc.) seems to be an issue here.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jul 21, 2020)

I concede the point about being "comforted", though I'd argue that Lothlorien is a far more "alien-feeling" place for the hobbits than Rivendell -- certainly less "homelike" -- and the same could be said for Henneth Annun.

I made a case for the importance of the other places elswhere, and I don't want to derail the thread further. If I can find it, I'll put a link here.


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## Olorgando (Jul 21, 2020)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I concede the point about being "comforted", though I'd argue that Lothlorien is a far more "alien-feeling" place for the hobbits than Rivendell -- certainly less "homelike" -- and the same could be said for Henneth Annun.


As I mentioned above, those flets would have been considered quite "un-homely" by the Hobbits.
But then, they had been through a seriously more "un-homely" place just before, Moria, and losing Gandalf.
And by Henneth Annûn, Sam and Frodo had been through or past some equally noxious places - and had gathered up a very dubious "companion". Frodo and Sam are quite different Hobbits when starting out for the Morgul Vale etc. even from when they left Rivendell ...


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