# Spirit Of Pure Creativity (Mel) Versus The Pathetic Spirit Of Sock Puppet (Manwe)



## YayGollum (Apr 1, 2005)

Greetings. I noticed some thread around here asking if Mel was worse in some way than Sauron. The first answer to pop into my head was ---> "Mel is the greatest! Poor Mel. Evil Sauron. Mel never hurt poor Smeagol." I then started thinking up some proof for you people who need to hear more evidence than that. The only reason I made my own thread is because this turned into more of a long rant all about Mel and less about why Sauron is really evil. Here you go. 

Poor Mel. At the beginning of time, all Ainur are in some creepy as well as magically naked spirit form. Mel sees how cool he is and believes that it should be achingly obvious to everyone else. Understandably so. And yet, after a bit of Eru's first attempt at music, he is never acknowledged. Sure, he's a little confused and annoyed. Decides to stop standing around and hoping for some just admiration. Heads off into the Void to look for something to do, can't find much of interest, heads back and writes a self-indulgent piece of music (if noone else will recognize him, he might as well show off how great he is by recognizing himself). 

He's having all kinds of fun with that, others are, too, he works up the nerve to talk to Varda, but she says ---> "No way, man. Ick. Check out Manwe over there. He's the spirit of the sock puppet! He has some mysterious link to Eru. Isn't that so cool? I'll go hang out with him. Get away from me, you original artist!" Mel sniffs and looks about sadly ---> "But, um, she just called me the original artist. How is that not cooler than being a sock puppet? oh well. I'll have fun with these spirits of fire. They understand me, man." 

Anyways, it turns out that Eru was not a fan of whatever genre of music Mel just invented, so he corrupts it and turns it into one of those mixed genre things that not everyone enjoys. Manwe adores the thing, of course. All of the "pure" Ainur say ---> "Oh, wow, Eru. You're the greatest. Fixing that trash that Mel calls music and turning our music into something even more beautiful." As Eru starts ranting about some creation they just created, Mel sniffs again and says ---> "But, dudes, I'm the spirit of creativity. How can you not think that my music was cool, too? I wasn't corrupting. Just stretching my creative muscles with what the guy gave me to work with." Ulmo rants about snow and ice and whatever else. Mel humbly mentions that yes, those were achingly great as well as creative spins that he put on water. Not many share his views. 

They all head for Middle Earth. Mel is understandably confused as to why Manwe is seen as the dude in charge. He remembers being naked in front of all of them and loving it. He remembers showing off his obvious greatness in every way. He wonders why some inferior specimen was chosen to be the leader. When the other Ainur mess about in their respective fields, Mel shows up to put a creative spin on it. 

The Ainur call that a war. When Mel hears that, he flusteredly looks about and says something like ---> "Do what? What war? Garn! Nasssty closed-minded types! Can't you see that I am not corrupting? I am merely showing you people new aspects of your own ideas!" They do not agree. They make some huge deal about his aurora borealis typed ideas. They claim that he is all about destruction since he gave them ice to make some big and useless (at least to Mel) lamps and they melted. Mel smugly says ---> "You dudes couldn't see how great I was in the first place, so I now have to show you in more obvious bashing you over the head types of ways. It is not my fault that you are so dense. Maybe if you had a better leader, some sort of great as well as intelligent example to see shining gloriously on some nice throne kind of chair, I could help you with that." 

As he goes into detail on what he thinks a creative throne should look like, the other Ainur toss a "Humph! Pure evil!" at him and move to Valinor. Mel looks about, wonders where everyone went, tosses a "Humph! Pitiful intellectual weaklings!" at them and makes his own house up north. He remembers hearing something about Children of Eru. He is not evil, he just sees great potential in this cool sounding invention. He is hoping for something to see his greatness. Sure, he has lots of minions by this time, but most of them agree with the other Ainur's idea that he is pure evil. He's always looking around for these kids. 

Sometime in there, he sees some sickle looking shape of stars made by Varda. He looks and the thing and cries ---> "Do what? And they call me evil! Ha! Evil Varda! I never liked her! Shut up, Sauron! I am peacefully sitting up here, doing my own thing. I have not messed with them since they left, and they make that thing. Sounds like an invitation! Where are those elf things I've been waiting for?" Random messenger dude shows up, says that they've found the boring little things, Mel orders for a few to be delivered so he can see what great new inspiration will hit him. 

He has very little time with his new toys before the Valar show up and toss him in some prison. Do you know how evil a thing that is to be doing to a spirit of creativity? Garn! Poor Mel. He just got these much thought about elf things, he just starts reshaping them to show what cool things you can do that only he could think up, and a bunch of random Ainur show up, destroy his house, kill a bunch of innocent servants of his, tie him up in some evil, albeit interesting, chain, and toss him in a windowless cell. 

He is chained up, probably can't evil use his creative hands, for what, an age or something? Maybe more. That is pure evil. Mel must bend and reshape! That is his purpose! He loves it! Poor guy. You can see why he might be very reasonably peeved. Way later, when they finally remember that he's in there, they decide to let him out. Mel is much more careful now. He tries, even though it makes him nauseous to contemplate it, to be like everyone else, to hold back his creative urges, to speak instead of act, and to speak very cautiously. 

It has been a while, and he would want to immediately head back to fix his house and see what's been going on with his servants while he's been gone, but this Valinor place doesn't look too bad (lots of possibilities for reconstruction) and these elves seem pretty interesting. He hangs out with them, holds back his urges to mess with them directly, tries to teach them to grow some creativity of their own, but most are just as tragically dense as the Ainur. Yes, he is achingly bitter and angry at the sight of elves, but because he is the spirit of creativity, he can still have a bit of fun. Especially with Feanor. 

Here is a guy very much like Mel. A very creative guy who must touch and examine and test and reshape pretty much everything that he sees. Mel could have had a good friend there, but Feanor was just a little too fiery for him. Too jealous and guarded with his ideas. Oh, I'm sure that being born as well as raised in Valinor, a place often seen by such evil and closed-minded Mel-haters as Tulkas and Ulmo, had nothing to do with Feanor's opinion on Mel.


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## YayGollum (Apr 1, 2005)

Anyways, you people see Mel's disposition by now, I hope. So sad that those two dudes were not buddies when Feanor made the silmarils, yes? But oh well. Feanor makes the silmarils, Mel's eyes light up, he says something like ---> "Oo! Good job, yo! Huh. Why didn't I think of that? Being a love of beauty, I wants those things on my mantle! Garn! But there is no way that the greatest of elven craftsmen would just hand the things over. He probably isn't even decent enough to sell the things to me. I tried to be nice, but he is stuck thinking that I am pure evil. just like everyone else. oh well. Looks like I shall have to go about this problem in a more creative way!" 

Mel has no qualms with messing with the minds of others. They are just more tools to him. That is not an evil way to think, just a pure as well as focused way to think. Very admirable. Anyways, Mel creates some disharmony, but in the end he is found out. The poor guy retreats, saying ---> "Hm. Lazing about with these people all day, I know that they will think that I am even more evil by now. I am out of here, yo! I am heading back home where they don't desperately wish to bury sickles in my face. But first! I wanted those silmarils, yes? Now they shall see the evil that they so fervently wish to be pinned to my name, won't they?" 

He then rushes off to find a tool that embodies the Ainur's distaste of him. Lucky Ungoliant! Mel is there for the silmarils, but Ungoliant notices the trees, asks him about the things, Mel starts a new rant ---> "Ah, yes! Those boring trees! I remember everyone making such a huge deal about those things! What is so creative about them, Ungoliant? Trees are boring and useless. And these are loathsome with the light that reminds me of Varda! Did I ever tell you how much I hate her? Oh, and Manwe, too! Manwe! With his empty sock puppet eyes, sitting there, telling me to be good! Ha! Yes, getting rid of these trees would make me feel good! Also, there won't be much chance of any more silmarils being made without them. Go for it, lady. Drink up. Here, let me help." The two steal lots of light, then grab the silmarils. 

Everything is going according to plan until Ungoliant decides to act like every other unreasonable being Mel has ever run into. He didn't hate or admire her. He didn't plan on her acting so unreasonable. Poor Mel. Always expecting others to be as cool and intelligent as he is. I know how that is. oh well.  He had planned on keeping her around as a fun tool to use whenever the Ainur messed with him. They wanted him to be evil so badly, he could use whatsherface to show them the evil that they wanted to see! But oh well. He had to call his balrog buddies to help him out. Now the Ainur have only him to look at and call evil. I'm sure that they don't mind. 

Anyways, you people know all of the stuff that happened after that. Some evil elves come looking for Mel's favorite conversation starters. Mel defends what he has rightfully taken. Mel broods and hides from all of these unreasonable people, most of which wish to kill him just because they've been raised on stories painting him as the worst thing imaginable. Ha! After all of the unreasoning idiots Mel has had the misfortune of knowing, they start calling him unreasonable. They actually believe that he is just some evil force that wants to consume and destroy everything. Craziness. The world is too fun, too full of possibilities for Mel to wish to destroy.

Most of the time, Mel hides in his house, brooding. He looks at the light from his silmarils and sighs. Minions come to him, telling him how the wars are going. He learns after a while that he can't talk to anyone. Noone is intelligent enough for him to have a good conversation with. Sure, Sauron isn't stupid, but he doesn't see Mel as Mel really wishes to be seen. Also, Sauron admires Mel for his accomplishments and delights in the duties that he gets to perform for him. He isn't like-minded enough. 

Mel probably enjoyed that break that Luthien gave him more that he'd ever admit. Very little ignites his curiosity anymore. He is less the angry spirit of destruction that he is painted to be and more the tragic figure of a great mastermind without a cause. In the end, he is tossed into the Void, very tragically defeated. I wouldn't be surprised if Mel looks forward to the end of time, when the world is destroyed. Does all of that sound like an evil guy?   Sauron, on the other hand, I could probably talk about in that other thread. Did I miss anything important over here about Mel?


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## Confusticated (Apr 1, 2005)

Well Yay, I was with you until "creative spin" and, "I am not currupting".

I guess the difference is that I think the authors of _The Silmarillion_ were less ignorant than you do. I mean from an internal point of view, those people in Arda who were supposed to have recorded the histories.

I uess JRRT's view isn't the question here, since we know what he htought of Melkor.

So I am curious. Did the elves record things wrong because they had been lied to by the Valar about those early days of the creation and formation of the world?

And if so, where ALL of the Valar behind this, did all of them wittingly lie or allow others to do so?

And if all of the Valar were blatantly si dishonest, what kind of screwed up hypocritical Ea is Eru running?


Or rather than lies, did the Valar just misunderstand Melkor back then? I think this is their source of ignorance in your opinion. And how could it be, if Melkor was genuinely working along with them to improve their creations, that they were all unaware of it and refused to believe this fact when Melkor insisted?


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## Alcuin (Apr 1, 2005)

At last! Here comes the marching band! 

Oh, look! Everyone is out of step but Johnny!


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## Gothmog (Apr 2, 2005)

Welcome back Yay. I have missed your fresh views on all matters dark.


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## Alcuin (Apr 2, 2005)

From “Ainulindalë” in _Silmarillion_:


> Melkor saw what was done, and that the Valar walked on Earth as powers visible, clad in the raiment of the World, and were lovely and glorious to see, and blissful, and that the Earth was becoming as a garden for their delight, for its turmoils were subdued. His envy grew then the greater within him; and he also took visible form, but because of his mood and the malice that burned in him that form was dark and terrible. …
> 
> …[T]he Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it.


From part VII of “Myths Transformed” in _Morgoth’s Ring_:


> [A]s ‘Morgoth’, when Melkor was confronted by the existence of other inhabitants of Arda, with other wills and intelligences, he was enraged by the mere fact of their existence, and his only notion of dealing with them was by physical force, of the fear of it. His sole ultimate object was their destruction. … This was sheer nihilism … Melkor could do nothing with Arda, which was not from his own mind and was interwoven with the work and thoughts of others: even left alone he could only have gone raging on till all was levelled again into a formless chaos. And yet even so he would have been defeated, because it would still have ‘existed’, independent of his own mind, and a world in potential.


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## YayGollum (Apr 2, 2005)

Greetings, crazy Confusticated lady. Your second idea was correct. The other Ainur weren't being especially evil, they just misunderstood. Anyways, I did not mean to write that Mel was improving on other people's ideas. He is the spirit of creativity, not the spirit of progress or convenience or anything crazy like that. He very impersonally looked at everything as something new to work with. Other people's inventions and even the other people were just tools for him to show off his coolness. 

Not an evil type thing to do. Just a compulsion that many creative people have. He was not dismayed that they didn't see how well he was improving on their own boring ideas. He was dismayed that they didn't feel like admiring his obvious greatness. The poor guy tried many things to show them how creative he was, but looks like they only cared about brainlessly doing the very few things that pop into their heads. Everything else corrupts their stability, at least according to them.

Anyways, ah, thank you muchly, Alcuin person. Yay for quotes. I often show up with crazy ideas and many people think that I am making lots of it up just because I don't come out with miles of quotes. This could help. Does not that first little quote of yours make you sniffle for poor Mel? *sniff* oh well. That bit that talks about envy is what makes some people believe that Mel is evil? Why? That's just craziness, since he is obviously the spirit of creativity. The other Ainur head for creation, they make up some fabulous garments to wear. See why Mel is envious? ---> "Garn! They beat me to it! Now noone will say that I came up with the greatest outfit of all time! Hmph! I would've come up with something that looks a lot like what some of them have. Fine! I'll go in a different direction with this clothes thing! None of them will have thought of this in their tragically teeny brainses!"

That second bit isn't much to talk about, is it? You people should have gathered that all of the creative licenses Mel is taking with the other people's stuff isn't evil. He knows that he is the most intelligent, the most creative, the greatest in every way. Their ideas for where mountain ranges should go must have been wrong in his opinion. He was only looking at the big picture. If I had pictures of maps to show you what the other Ainur were planning, I'm sure that I could show you how much better Mel's version of the geography was. But oh well. There are no maps of that. I'm sure that they were just far to ugly for Tolkien to draw.  

Yikes! Does not that last quote make you wish to weep? Oh, how sad it is that such a cool spirit is seen in such a way! I wonder how far this is into poor Mel's life! From what I know, all of that is probably not far from the truth, at least way later during Mel's visit to Middle Earth. You can see why he might be enraged by this time at the existence of things. The poor guy is running out of power, he has decided that it is useless to try doing what he was made to do, since it is always misunderstood. 

He should understandably hate the fact that he can't create things of his own. Poor guy. All of that creativity with the proviso that he can only mess with other people's stuff. That never worked the way it was supposed to, did it? He is stuck with nothing but a bit of bitterness, I would say. Very understandable and tragic. There was an example for why he hated humans around in the same area as your little quote, dude. Something along the lines of hating them because of their weakness, as in, lack of power over matter. 

Does that not show you that the poor guy had some hope when humans showed up? He messed with the elves and nobody liked his new direction. He found the humans, saw that they could be as great as himself at creativity, but you know, he is the superly cool spirit of creativity. He is the greatest, and they are just little insects with a bit of potential. No immortality like the elves for him to use them over long periods of time. Also, lots of them get caught by elves and taught a few misconceptions. Poor guy.  

Anything else? Ah, yes. Yay for me being back. Why not? I regularly show up around here just to see what you people are doing. I noticed something on Mel versus Sauron and started thinking up all kinds of ways to defend poor Mel. Had to show up and enlighten you people.


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## Alcuin (Apr 2, 2005)

Pleased to make your acquaintance, YayGollum.



YayGollum said:


> Greetings, crazy Confusticated lady.


Ah, confistulated mind, I am no lady, nor woman of woman born. I checked my anatomy in the standard bathroom routine soon after I arose this morning. 



YayGollum said:


> Your second idea was correct. The other Ainur weren't being especially evil, they just misunderstood.


I am pleased to hear it: I did not know one could misunderstand nihilistic destruction. 



YayGollum said:


> He is the spirit of creativity, not the spirit of progress or convenience or anything crazy like that.


I agree that Morgoth was “not the spirit of progress or convenience”. That was Sauron, and to a lesser extent, Saruman.



YayGollum said:


> Not an evil type thing to do. Just a compulsion that many creative people have.


Well, that explains modern art.



YayGollum said:


> I often show up with crazy ideas and many people think that I am making lots of it up just because I don't come out with miles of quotes.


I understand how finding supporting quotes and texts from the corpus of Tolkien’s work would be inconvenient for you.



YayGollum said:


> Does not that first little quote of yours make you sniffle for poor Mel?


No, but may I offer you a Kleenex? or a beach towel?



YayGollum said:


> Does that not show you that the poor guy had some hope when humans showed up? He messed with the elves and nobody liked his new direction.


He tried to kill them all. But I begin to understand why you are confused by their resistance.



YayGollum said:


> Had to show up and enlighten you people.


There is now light on a place the sun never shines.



YayGollum said:


> Yay for me being back.


Yay. The quality of entertainment will now rise considerably!


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## YayGollum (Apr 2, 2005)

Whoops. Please excuse me for the unintentional confusion that I have tossed upon you, Alcuin person. Those first two paragraph looking things were directed towards the Nóm lady, who I know as Confusticated. oh well. I would not presume to guess at anyone's gender. Anyways, I was wondering what you meant by what you wrote after that seventh quote of mine. You were saying that Mel tried to kill all humans or elves? Also, no, I am not confused about anyone's resistance to originality. I could go on another rant about how the other people think, but it would be a lot less fun. And probably offensive and far off track to the fans of those people.  oh well. Have fun.


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## Alcuin (Apr 2, 2005)

YayGollum said:


> Whoops. Please excuse me for the unintentional confusion that I have tossed upon you, Alcuin person.


But of course! You are certainly excused! I wasn’t confused, you had no way of knowing, and please don’t drop by to check for yourself.


YayGollum said:


> Those first two paragraph looking things were directed towards the Nóm lady, who I know as Confusticated.


’Scuse me for interrupting. Carry on!


YayGollum said:


> I would not presume to guess at anyone's gender.


An increasingly difficult and socially dangerous habit. Such clarity has dissolved along with the modern spirit of creativity. Creative gender is now _de rigueur_.


YayGollum said:


> You were saying that Mel tried to kill all humans or elves?


Tolkien thought so. I elided rather extensively in one of my quotations, although I do not believe I altered the intent or thrust of the text. Let me fill in a bit. Again, from part VII of “Myths Transformed” in _Morgoth’s Ring_:


> This was sheer nihilism, and negation its one ultimate object: Morgoth would no doubt, if he had been victorious, have ultimately destroyed even his own ‘creatures’, such as the Orcs, when they had served his sole purpose in using them: the destruction of Elves and Men.





YayGollum said:


> I am not confused about anyone's resistance to originality. I could go on another rant about how the other people think, but it would be a lot less fun.


No, no! Please, your originality is unique! Rant some more, but tell us how _you _think!


YayGollum said:


> Have fun.


You were a little ray of sunshine on a rainy afternoon. Yay!


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## YayGollum (Apr 2, 2005)

Ah, yes. Cool. Should not all originality be unique? oh well. Let me see here. I wish to know if you (or whoever else) has thought to look at Mel's character a second time after all of that. Or do some just brainlessly agree with me just because I presented facts in a different light? I hope not. I would actually expect more of ---> "Hm. Okay. Yeah, that's funny, I guess. It's just YayGollum on another crazy rant of his. Let's nod at the entertainment for the night." Sure, that's cool, too. I am happy to entertain, but I do wish for minds to know that while I enjoy presenting opinions in a fun to read way, I am still seriously trying to tell you people something. oh well. I am getting it out and you people are having fun.  

Anyways, that extra bit of quote that you added doesn't give me much more to defend against. It is just another opportunity for me to say something like ---> "Oh! So sad! How tragic it is to see this great being lowered thusly! He grabbed some elves, turned them into Orcs just to show Eru a thing or two about creativity, and way later, this quote says that the guy would wish to destroy his own bit of art!" That would of course be because noone appreciated it, he sees how useless it is at that point, and, as I mentioned before, it would not be evil to destroy his Orcs because they are just tools or pieces of art that he has grown tired of. Yes, not all agree with that, but that is how he would see it. He wasn't as evil as people were brainwashed to believe. And I do not write brainwashed as if the people doing it were doing it maliciously. Not always is brainwashing malicious.

Also, I wrote that I could write about other people's ideas (how I figure them, at least), but why would I want to? Those other people that I write about are too boring, too popularly thought of for me to rant about. Ick. I would much rather find a thread about Mim or Eol or Feanor or some other more interesting character than the nameless thousands of tragically brainwashed opponents of Mel.


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## Confusticated (Apr 5, 2005)

Taken from an inside the story point of view I can see where you are coming from with this misunderstanding business and I have considered the possability. I am more likely than you though, to go by what the author says from outside of the story. I just take JRRT's view into consideration when forming opinions about the insides of tales, but I see nothing wrong with not doing so.

In my opinion Melkor was wronged in the beginning beyond Ea, but I do not beleive that his intentions where good when he entered Arda. This is not to say that I always trust the intentions of the Valar, regardless of what JRRT says about Manwe. But I have no problem understanding how the treatment of Melkor lead him down that path either. Especially Eru's words that made him ashamed.


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## Alcuin (Apr 5, 2005)

I don’t see how Melkor was wronged or mistreated or misunderstood. In "Ainulindalë", it says “he sought … to increase the power and glory of the part assigned to himself.” He was already one of the most important of the Ainur, but he wanted to increase his position at the expense of others. He’s selfish. And instead of getting better when he had the opportunities – the Second Theme of the Music, the Third Theme of the Music, Ilúvatar permitted his entrance into Eä, he wrecked the Lamps, he was caught and imprisoned in Mandos for 3 ages - deliberately chose to become worse. Then he began really bad activities that no prior wrong could justify: he corrupted Incarnates into Orcs, and he sought to eradicate the Children of Ilúvatar. Whether Morgoth started out bad or not is not the point: he became evil, and he did so of his own free will.


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## Arvegil (Apr 5, 2005)

Wronged? Not wronged? All irrelevant, really: Melkor was necessary to inject an element of chaos and uncertainty in what would otherwise have been a static system. He was not a "spirit of pure creativity" although it may be fairly argued that he created the preconditions in which creativity, for good or evil, may occur.


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## YayGollum (Apr 5, 2005)

Got it. Thank you, Confusticated lady. That is an adequate example of the view I was attempting to toss at you people. 

Anyways, what is so bad about this increasing the power and glory of the part assigned to himself type of thing? He recognizes that he is much cooler in pretty much every way and believes that he deserves more. To make up for the other people's faults.  Mel thought that he was getting better in the times that you mention. He was doing more creative things. Showing people a new direction with old ideas. Also, I still don't see how making Orcs is such an evil thing. But then, if I liked elves, I probably wouldn't like Mel.  oh well. He just saw them as the raw materials for something new and cool. They were nowhere near the level of Mel, so why would he care about their pitiful cries of agony during their transformations?  And sure, I shall agree with you on what the point is not. I did not attempt to write that Mel being not so bad in the beginning was the point. I did attempt to write that Mel was not as bad as most people enjoy believing.

Also, Yay for the Arvegil person! Not a bad way to look at it! That was one of my favorites.


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