# Fashion



## FrankSinatra (Apr 2, 2003)

Did Gandalf have a sense of fashion?

Why the pointed hat?


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 2, 2003)

Cuz when Tolkien first wrote the Hobbit, he went from the traditional 'Fairy-Tale' point of veiw. Wizards were:

Old
Long bearded
Wearers of Pointy Hats
Robed
Wise
Staff bearers

Like Merlin... That was just sort of what Wizards were. Almost like asking 'Why did Knights wear shiny helmets?' Its well known that Knights were in bright shining armor...


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## Celebthôl (Apr 2, 2003)

well no, coz knights wore metal helmets to protect their head...


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## Finduilas (Apr 2, 2003)

Yes, I do agree with you both. However, I've considered another point of view too.
There is such a symbolism that 'the top' is, actually, the perfection and if you succeed in climbing that 'peak' you have in fact bettered your approach to that certain matter. 
Therefore, if we accept that Gandalf is trying to perfect his knowledge and exprience in magic and life, it seems that Tolkien himself finds the wizard's knowledge 'quite' vast. 
In addition to this, I'd like to add something which is in no relation to Tolkien but is related to this topic. It is believed that the sharper a scalp of a dog is, the cleverer it is. 
It would probably mean the same if Huan wore a pointed hat...


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 2, 2003)

Hmm... Im not sure that made entirely too much sense. So Gandalf has a pointy hat... whoopdee doo. I doubt its anything symbolic.


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## Finduilas (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BlackCaptain _
> *Hmm... Im not sure that made entirely too much sense. So Gandalf has a pointy hat... whoopdee doo. I doubt its anything symbolic. *



Of course there is sense! 
Come on! Every piece of Tolkien's work is a symbolism or at least it is if we find it. Gandalf's pointed hat can be interpreted in two ways:
1. From a purely historical and mythological point- like the parallel between Gandalf's hat and other wizards' hats, especially Medievil ones.
2. From a more psychological and symbolic point- including the thoughts I posted.


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## FrankSinatra (Apr 2, 2003)

*Well*

I can see the reasoning behind both points actually.

The 'fairy tale' reason was what i originally suspected.


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## Feanorian (Apr 2, 2003)

Well although much of Tokien's works did have symbolism i doubt Gandalf's hat did. It seems more required because he is a wizard, unlike Saruman who thinks hes a king(i dont think you are a king if you have to create your citizens).


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## FrankSinatra (Apr 2, 2003)

'(i dont think you are a king if you have to create your citizens).'

Sounds like a good shortcut though.

Saddam and Adolf had a good go.


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## legolasismine (Apr 2, 2003)

I agree it was just the "Fairy-Tale" perspective,actually Gandalf had no fashion sense at all,only elves did.


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## Finduilas (Apr 2, 2003)

It's not about fashion but about traditions, etc.
You said it was required because he was a wizard but isn't that a kind of symbolism too? One of the wizards power or something. As well as their experience. And about Saruman considering himself as a king? Well, yes, even this proves this fashion symbols. Or should we call them fashion lines?


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## Feanorian (Apr 2, 2003)

> Well, yes, even this proves this fashion symbols.



this was a quote talking about Saruman and I was just trying to clear up what you meant I am a little confused. Are you saying that the pointed hat shows power? Another thing did it ever say anything about Saruman or Rhadagst having pointed hats???


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## Finduilas (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm not sure about the other Istari, but I believe Gandalf's hat shows not exactly his power but wisedom and high standard of experience. However, what I meant is that since kings consider powers as a much more necessary quality than life experience, it is logical that Saruman would not like to put on a pointed hat but probably a crown which will reveal his majesty.


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## FrankSinatra (Apr 3, 2003)

*Yes*

Saruman wore a hood though, did he not?


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 3, 2003)

Yes he did... The hat has nothing to do with symbolism... I can assure you. Why would an article of clothing like that be symbolic? Because it's pointy? All Wizards hats are pointy. Tolkien wouldn't have just changed the trend from a pointy hat to a baseball cap. Tolkien was just doing what seemed to be the standard for Wizards.


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## Feanorian (Apr 3, 2003)

> why would an article of clothing like that be symbolic?



Although i do agree with you one could point out.............why would a piece of jewelry decide the fate of for the lack of a better word 'humanity'(including humans,elves, dwarves, hobbits, orcs, etc)???


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## Elbereth (Apr 6, 2003)

I think we must remember...Tolkien detested allegory. Therefore to associate a meaning to the wizard's hat would seem rediculous to Tolkien. 

Excuse me if I reiterate a point that I am aware has been expressed already. However, when he created Gandalf and the other characters in his own mythology, he looked to mythical characters from history as the inspiration. Wizards, were characteristically known to have pointed hats...and as Gandalf served as the stereotypical wizard in his tales...he of course would be adorned in the garb that is most associated to wizard tales that we are most familiar with.... _long robes, a staff, and pointed hat._

Therefore, let's not read into the story too much. Some things in Tolkien's work are meant to stand on their own...without bringing in any outside meanings to it.


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## Lantarion (Apr 6, 2003)

Excellent points Elbereth; although I wouldn't go as far as to say that Tolkien _detested_ allegory/metaphors, but only greatly disliked using them himself..


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## BlackCaptain (Apr 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Feanorian _
> *Although i do agree with you one could point out.............why would a piece of jewelry decide the fate of for the lack of a better word 'humanity'(including humans,elves, dwarves, hobbits, orcs, etc)??? *



Because jewelry was used by Tolkien as a representation of temptation. The Noldo valued jewels very very highly, and thier entire fate was around 3 jewels. LOTR is about coming over temptation. The Ring, jewelry, represents this temptation. It drove Feanor mad, and he doomed his entire people over three simple (not really simple...) jewels. Frodo, a hobbit, resisted the greatest jewelry in the world, while it drove possibly the greatest elf ever crazy. This really shows some strength in Hobbits. Clothes on the other hand, aren't very valueable, and aren't known to tempt people too much.


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## Elbereth (Apr 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lantarion _
> *Excellent points Elbereth; although I wouldn't go as far as to say that Tolkien detested allegory/metaphors, but only greatly disliked using them himself.. *



Ok, I admit that _detested_ was probably too strong of a word to use. I was trying to make a point and I guess I got a little carried away. Sorry about that guys! But I still stand by my opinion...we shouldn't get too carried away with finding meaning in Tolkien's works...much of his writing was meant to stand on its own.


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