# Ancient Defences



## baragund (May 5, 2005)

I was looking up something in "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" in the published Silmarillion and came across the following passage. This passage is in the part that discusses Earnur, the last king of Gondor, who answered the challenge of the Witch King and got himself dragged into Minas Morgal. It goes on thus describing how the frontiers of Gondor at that time were protected:



> And northward, beyond the falls of Rauros and the Gates of Argonath, there were as yet other defences, powers more ancient of which Men knew little, against whom the things of evil did not dare to move, until in the ripening of time their dark lord, Sauron, should come forth again. An until that time was come, never again after the days of Earnil did the Nazgul dare to cross the River or to come forth from their city in shape visible to Men.



Any idea what these "ancient powers" were? The Elves of Lothlorien? The Beornings? The Ents?


----------



## Ithrynluin (May 5, 2005)

I would say a combination of all those realms, plus Thranduil's kingdom, but Lothlorien first and foremost, since I believe it was one of the most heavily fortified bastions of the good peoples. Even when Sauron came openly forth again, the Witch king would not defy the White ring of Galadriel, and avoided Lorien (Unfinished Tales).


----------



## baragund (May 5, 2005)

That was what I thought at first but the phrase "of which Men knew little" throws me. The Men of Gondor surely knew of Lothlorien as well as the woodland realm, right?


----------



## chrysophalax (May 6, 2005)

Was this not referring to the Rings Galadriel and Elrond wore?


----------



## Greenwood (May 6, 2005)

baragund said:


> That was what I thought at first but the phrase "of which Men knew little" throws me. The Men of Gondor surely knew of Lothlorien as well as the woodland realm, right?


The men of Gondor knew of Lothlorien, but the phrase "knew little" could still be applied. Look at the attitudes of Boromir and even Eomer towards Lothlorien. They did not think of it as a good place or as an enemy of Mordor. They feared it as dangerous and perhaps evil. That certainly seems to qualify as knowing "little", of its true nature at least.


----------



## Ingwë (May 6, 2005)

Hm... interesting, very interesting. I think We have already discuss something like that: http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?t=17189&page=1&pp=20 (look at my post) but we didn't come to conclusion what really is it...


----------



## Ithrynluin (May 7, 2005)

Greenwood said:


> The men of Gondor knew of Lothlorien, but the phrase "knew little" could still be applied. Look at the attitudes of Boromir and even Eomer towards Lothlorien. They did not think of it as a good place or as an enemy of Mordor. They feared it as dangerous and perhaps evil. That certainly seems to qualify as knowing "little", of its true nature at least.



And furthermore, Eomer and Boromir were of the 'higher' or ruling classes in their respective realms, and even they knew very little or their knowledge was distorted in a way. The majority of the people of Gondor and Rohan, must have known even less...even next to nothing perhaps.


----------



## baragund (May 9, 2005)

Ah, I get it now... Ithy's, Chrys' and Greenwood's explanations make plenty sense. Thanks, guys


----------

