# Elrond and the Moon Letters



## 1stvermont (Dec 8, 2022)

I will have an image or book cover created that depicts the scene where Elrond discovers and reads the Moon Letters on Thorin's map. I reread the section of the Hobbit that describes it, and Thorin, Gandalf, Elrond, and Bilbo were all there. But I must have missed the scenery where it took place (if it was offered). Also, from a quick read, I could not tell if Elrond was holding the map up to the moonlight sky or if it was on something he was reading off.

Is anyone familiar with this scene or any images that depict it?


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## Erestor Arcamen (Dec 8, 2022)

It doesn't say exactly where in the house they were when Elrond read the moon letters but does say he held the map up. And this happens within a few paragraphs of them going over a bridge and arriving in Rivendale, so I assume they might be still standing outside.


> He took it and gazed long at it, and he shook his head; for if he did not altogether approve of dwarves and their love of gold, he hated dragons and their cruel wickedness, and he grieved to remember the ruin of the town of Dale and its merry bells, and the burned banks of the bright River Running. *The moon was shining in a broad silver crescent. He held up the map and the white light shone through it.* “What is this?” he said. “There are moon-letters here, beside the plain runes which say ‘five feet high the door and three may walk abreast.’”


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## 1stvermont (Dec 8, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> It doesn't say exactly where in the house they were when Elrond read the moon letters but does say he held the map up. And this happens within a few paragraphs of them going over a bridge and arriving in Rivendale, so I assume they might be still standing outside.



So I can take some liberty then? TY.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Dec 8, 2022)

1stvermont said:


> So I can take some liberty then? TY.


Yeah, I'm sure you'll do better than Elrond and his friends parading in on horses, running circles around the dwarves like a circus, like they did in the movies


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Dec 8, 2022)

Is that what happened? 😳

I must have wiped it from memory.


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## Ent (Dec 8, 2022)

To be 'very specific'...
"The moon was shining in a broad silver crescent. He held up the map and the white light shone through it.".

Then we have:
“None to be seen by this moon,” said Elrond, and he gave the map back to Thorin; and then they went down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer’s eve.

So: 1) - moon light needs to 'shine through it' and 2) - different moons can reveal different writings.

It could be 'speculated' they were outside, rather than in the house, since they 'went down to the water'... however, the only real criteria is having the moon's light shine through it, which could be done anywhere.

Have at it.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Dec 8, 2022)

One version I posted on the Book Covers thread:


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## 1stvermont (Dec 8, 2022)

Ent said:


> To be 'very specific'...
> "The moon was shining in a broad silver crescent. He held up the map and the white light shone through it.".
> 
> Then we have:
> ...


Brilliant!!! I have come to expect nothing less out of you good sir.

I am thinking this depiction of the moon letters being "reveled" would work good with my title "Middle-earth Lore: Tolkien's Tales _Reveled._"

I might just include the map itself with the moon letters highlighted on the back cover. We shall see.


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## Ent (Dec 8, 2022)

1stvermont said:


> Reveled


Oops. Presuming 'revealed' rather than 'reveled'. 🙂

And by the way, it does not specify whether the 'moon light' needs to shine through it 'from behind it' or just 'shine through it,' even if from the front side.
It just needs to be held where the moon's light can shine through it.

The depiction SeS posted only gives me a little concern as Elrond is not 'holding it up', and the moon is behind them so their bodies block the ability of the moon light to 'pass through it.'

I would say this is a depiction "before he holds it up"... and if he's still sitting when he does, the moon light would pass through it from the front side rather than the back.. a perfectly acceptable situation given what we 'know'.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Dec 8, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Is that what happened? 😳
> 
> I must have wiped it from memory.


Yeah, while the dwarves formed like an army as if they would have a chance in the middle of an Elven realm


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## 1stvermont (Dec 8, 2022)

Ent said:


> Oops. Presuming 'revealed' rather than 'reveled'. 🙂
> 
> And by the way, it does not specify whether the 'moon light' needs to shine through it 'from behind it' or just 'shine through it,' even if from the front side.
> It just needs to be held where the moon's light can shine through it.
> ...



Yes, revealed sounds much better. More accurate to the meaning I am attempting to get across. I need my editor....


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Dec 8, 2022)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> Yeah, while the dwarves formed like an army as if they would have a chance in the middle of an Elven realm


Maybe PJ was trying to make up for the mess he made in the Riders of Rohan scene.

He should have had Sabaton or somebody supply a metal version of the "Oh where are you going" song. 😄


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Dec 8, 2022)

Ent said:


> I would say this is a depiction "before he holds it up".


Or after. 

How about this one?


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## Erestor Arcamen (Dec 8, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Or after.
> 
> How about this one?
> View attachment 20485


Nice art but Elrond looks like a princess and Bilbo like a 4 year old LOL


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## Ent (Dec 8, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> How about this one?



Well...at least the thing is held up. And judging from the light in the window the moon MAY be off to the left of him/her, so may be able to 'shine through'.

As to the rest of it...i really have no words to describe my reception of the thing.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Dec 8, 2022)

It's from a Russian "children's version". Elrond is female in that one, for some reason.


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## Ent (Dec 8, 2022)

I will say this, as it can be stated 'neutrally'....

The map itself may or may not be too big. But I speculate it does not have enough 'folds'. It's highly unlikely Gandalf could have packed a map around for so many years at the size it would be all folded up. At that size, it would be much more a pathetic wreck.

So either the map should be much smaller so that many folds allows a tinier thing for him to pack, or that map needs to be folded a couple more times to make it about the size of a pack of cigarettes or deck of cards. (Again, speculation. It's possible Gandalf could have carried around something about the size of a postcard's dimensions too, but the map is still oversized for that.)


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## Ent (Dec 8, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Elrond is female in that one, for some reason.


Hum. I did not know this. Quite the departure from 'canon' for those inclined to be vociferous about such things.


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