# The origin of dwarves



## Elendil3119 (Jun 4, 2003)

I was thinking about the origin of dwarves today, and I realized that the published Silmarillion only mentions the 7 fathers of dwarves.


> ....and he made first the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves in a hall under the mountains in Middle-earth....then Aulë took the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves, and laid them to rest...*(Published Silmarillion, 'Of Aulë and Yavanna')*


Mention is made only of the Seven Fathers, but not of any spouses for them. I have read, however, in various essays that there actually were six spouses for the Seven Fathers. Is this supported by any of Tolkien's writings? 

I have also read that Durin missed out and didn't get a spouse for himself. Herein lies the second question. Where did he get a spouse? Did he just eventually marry one of the descendants of the other Dwarves?


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## Elendil3119 (Jun 4, 2003)

Well, I think I just answered my first question.


> The earlier of the two texts of the inserted passage shows my father much exercised about the details of the making of the first Dwarves. Thus there are the following tentative and roughly-written passages:
> (a)	*But it is said that to each Dwarf Ilúvatar added a mate of female kind,* yet because he would not amend the work of Aulë, and Aulë had yet made only things of male form, therefore the women of the Dwarves resemble their men more than all other [?speaking] races.
> 
> (b)	He wrought in secret in a hall under the mountains in Middle-earth. There he made first one Dwarf, the eldest of all, and after he made six others, the fathers of their race; *and then he began to make others again, like to them but of female kind to be their mates.* But he wearied, and when he [had] made six more he rested, and he returned to the seven fathers and he looked at them, and they looked at him, and whatever motion was in his thought that motion they performed. And Aulë was not pleased, but he began to teach them the language that he had designed for them, hoping thus to instruct them.But Ilúvatar knew all that was done, and in the very hour that the Eldest Dwarf first spoke with tongue, Ilúvatar spoke to Aulë; and Aulë
> ...


In all the versions but D. (Published Silmarillion?) Aulë made mates for the Seven Fathers. However, 


> In the final text, as printed in The Silmarillion, my father evidently abandoned the question of the origin of the female Dwarves, finding it intractable and the solutions unsatisfactory. Moreover in the finished form the element of the Eldest (Durin) being distinct from the others, and without mate, finds no place.


Still, my second question remains unanswered: where did Durin find a mate?


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 6, 2003)

A brilliant question and observation Elendil. Although I can't answer it, because I've still to read HoMe. You've got me wondering now...


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## Elendil3119 (Jun 6, 2003)

Here's an excerpt from Letter #212 written around 1958:


> And he (Ilúvatar) commanded Aulë to lay the fathers of the Dwarves severally in deep places, each with his mate, save Dúrin the eldest who had none.


This bring's up the question of whether it was Ilúvatar or Aulë who made the female dwarves. In the excerpt I posted from PoMe, there are four versions in which it was Aulë who made the 6 female dwarves, and only one in which Ilúvatar made them. Is it safe to assume that Aulë was the creator of all the dwarves?


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## Ancalagon (Jun 11, 2003)

> here. Durin is the name that the Dwarves used for the eldest of the Seven fathers of their race, and the ancestor of all the kings of the Longbeards.39 he slept alone, until in the deeps of time and the awakening of that people he came to Azanulbizar, and in the caves above Kheled-zâram in the east of the Misty Mountains he made his dwelling, where afterwards were the Mines of Moria renowned in song.
> There he lived so long that he was known far and wide as Durin the Deathless. yet in the end he died before the Elder Days had passed, and his tomb was in Khazad-dûm; but his line never failed, and five times an heir was born in his House so like to his forefather that he received the name of Durin. He was indeed held by the Dwarves to be the Deathless that returned; for they have many strange tales and beliefs concerning themselves and their fate in the world.
> _ From, The Return of the King_



There is no doubting that Durin alone was placed in the deep of Khazad-dûm. However, there are two possiblities here;

1. Durin took a wife to himself after awakening and as such was able to produce an heir. 

2. Durin was continually held by the Dwarves to be reincarnated through his race, of which he is considered the 'prime ancestor'.

Personally, the first suggestion seems the most likely, as we can trace direct descendency from Durin 1 - Thorin Oakenshield, last of the line of Durin. Where does Durin find his spouse however? I can only imagine that as the Dwarven Fathers begin to multiply, and the population grows, eventually many would have found their way to Durins realm, we cannot be sure if they were separated by distance, though we know of Belegost and Nogrod and Khazad-dûm, we cannot be certain of where the 4 remaining Mansions were. The may have been further East, though they do not come into any tales. I would assume however that at least one pairing was within the Misty Mountains, considering the size and scale of them. A mystery it may well remain.


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## Inderjit S (Jun 13, 2003)

Tolkien made may corrections to the idea as is seen in the section in the _Latter Quenta Silmarillion_ (HoME 11) culiminating in the seven fathers+six mothers idea mentioned in Letter 212 , and Durin waking alone, as atrributed in Gimlis song.



> There is no doubting that Durin alone was placed in the deep of Khazad-dûm.



_Of Dwarves and Men _ states that he awoke in Mount Gundabad not Khazad-dum hence the special hatred for Orks from dwarves when they occupied their in a way, 'holy land' of Gundabad, which is stated to be the Ork capital in _The Hobbit_ 



> be certain of where the 4 remaining Mansions were. The may have been further East, though they do not come into any tales. I





> Of Dwarves and Men


 states that the Dwarves of all seven mansions held close contact esp. in their early histories where they met at Gundabad, so Durin may have chosen a mate from a younger generation of any of the six houses. 

Whilst we are on the subject of the other houses, their are glimpses of them in the tales. In the _Narn i Hin Hurin_ Androg mentions the unfriendly Dwarves of the East, something which is picked up on in _Of Dwarves and Men_ and I hold the 'evil' or Morgoth worshipping Dwarves of the East to be akin to the bad-natured Dwarves of _Book of Lost tales 2_ or even the neutral Dwarves in the _Early Quenta Silmarillion_ (HoME 5) yet at the start of LoTR, there is a mention of Dwarven migration from the East to the Blue mountains and it is doubtful whether the Dwarves of the Iron Hills or Erebor because they are quoted as being 'Strange Dwarves of far countries' and the Ereborian or Iron Hills Dwarves wouldn't have been 'strange' to Frodo/Hobbits since many of their race passed to and fro in the Shire. 



> be certain of where the 4 remaining Mansions were. The may have been further East, though they do not come into any tales. I





> the Dwarvish traditions of the Third Age the names of the places where each of the Seven Ancestors had 'awakened' were remembered; but only two of them were known to Elves and Men of the West: the most westerly, the awakening place of the ancestors of the Firebeards and the Broadbeams; and that of the ancestor of the Longbeards, the eldest in making and awakening. The first had been in the north of the Ered Lindon, the great eastern wall of Beleriand, of which the Blue Mountains of the Second and later ages were the remnant; the second had been Mount Gundabad (in origin a Khuzdul name), which was therefore revered by the Dwarves, and its occupation in the Third Age by the Orks of Sauron was one of the chief reasons for their great hatred of the Orks. The other two places were eastward, at distances as great or greater than that between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad: the arising of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and that of the Blacklocks and Stonefoots. Though these four points were far sundered the Dwarves of different kindreds were in communication


 _Of Dwarves and Men_


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## Ancalagon (Jun 13, 2003)

Now InderjitS, why do you not debate as seriously and as constructively as you have done so here?


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