# The 'Straight Way' to the west



## BlackCaptain (Mar 19, 2003)

> _From Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien; Letter 131_
> Thereafter there is no visible dwelling of the divine or immortal on earth. Valinor (or paradise) and even Eressea are removed, remaining only in the memory of the earth. Men may sail now West, if they will, as far as they may, and come no nearer to Valinor of the Blessed Realm, but return only into the east and so back again; for the world is round and finite, and a circle inescapable - save by death. Only the 'immortals', the lingering Elves, may still if they will, wearying of the circle of the world, take ship and find the 'straight way', and come to the ancient or True West, and be at peace



This raises two questions in my head:

-Is this 'straight way' found by some magic of the Elves? How does it work?
-"Only the 'immortals'...may take ship and find the 'straight way' ". 
Frodo isn't immortal, nor Bilbo, yet they still go into the undying lands... Does anyone know how this works?


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## Celebthôl (Mar 19, 2003)

my guess would be that its a special rout to take, and my guess is that bilbo frodo and sam got there because they traveled on a boat made by Círdan,


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 19, 2003)

This won't answer all your questions but it might help.
Letters #154


> But in this story it is supposed that there may be certain rare execeptions or accommodations (legitimately supposed? there always seem to be exceptions); and so certain'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as a friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel.



Letters #325


> ...it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There is no return. The Elves who took this road and those few 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.



Same letter


> As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time - whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon thwm. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves know nothing.


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## Mirabella (Mar 19, 2003)

Bilbo and Frodo and we must assume Sam as well, sailed with Elves on board. I'm not sure if left to their own devices if they would have been able to find the Straight Road.

This is just my opinion here, but I believe Cirdan keeps the secret of the Straight Road. It is he who sets the ships on the right course, not necessarily any "magic" of the Elves on board that finds it. I belive this because Cirdan is said to remain on ME until the "last ship sails".


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## Niniel (Mar 20, 2003)

Yes, but Círdan went on board with Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Frodo and Bilbo, but later Sam and Legolas and Gimli went to West also. So it's not just Círdan who knows the way. Or maybe the ships were steered by the Valar, and not by those on board, so that the Valar could decide who would find the way and who wouldn't.


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## BlackCaptain (Mar 20, 2003)

I like that idea...


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 20, 2003)

Nowhere does it state that Cirdan took the ship. But in Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age it does make it sound that Frodo's is the Last Ship.


> ...and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.' White was that ship and long was it a-building,and long it awaited the end of which Cirdan spoke.



I have no explanation to this. If Cirdan sailed on the ship with Frodo how did Legolas, Gimli, and Sam pass over the sea?

There are hints that Cirdan might have got on the ship with them, but I'm just not sure. I always felt that he stayed until the last Elf set sail, now I'm not sure.


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 20, 2003)

Círdan DID NOT sail with Frodo & co. at the end of the 3rd Age IMHO, he stayed well into the 4th Age.

And I don't think that it was by his arts that the ships found the passage into the West. Either the people on board were permitted to go, or not. The Valar were the judges of this. If someone was permitted to come, they simply WOULD find the path.


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## Mithlond (Mar 20, 2003)

Legolas and Gimli didnt even set sail from the Grey Haven's, Legolas built his own boat in Ithilien and sailed down the Anduin.
(I know this info is in the appendices, in the tale of years i think).

So it doesn't matter if Cirdan was still in Middle-earth at the time, as they wouldn't have met him.


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## Niniel (Mar 21, 2003)

Where does it say that Círdan did not take ship? I always thought he did, since it's not mentioned that he was with Sam, Merry and Pippin after the ship sailed away.


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 21, 2003)

It never says he did or didn't, but it does sound like he probably did sail with Frodo.


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## BlackCaptain (Mar 21, 2003)

He couldn't have sailed with Frodo and co.... How would Sam have gotten to the Undying Lands then?


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## Melko Belcha (Mar 21, 2003)

As Mithlond said.


> Legolas and Gimli didnt even set sail from the Grey Haven's, Legolas built his own boat in Ithilien and sailed down the Anduin.



The Grey Havens wasn't the only place Elves sailed from, there was a southern port but can't remember the name of where exactly it is.

I just have always thought that Cirdan would be the last Elf ever to sail to Valinor. He didn't cross after the Great March, so I just kind of always seen him as the last Elf in the Last Ship to leave our shores. 

But that is just how I see it, I have no proof to it.


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## redline2200 (Mar 21, 2003)

Círdan is such an important elf in the history of the world that I don't think Tolkien meant for him to go. He was so important, that if Tolkien wanted him to go, he probably would have specifically said so. Círdan leaving Middle-earth would be a big enough matter for Tolkien to be very specific on. He probably would not have left this much guessing behind if he intended him to go.


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## Ravenna (Mar 21, 2003)

I have always believed that Cirdan stayed in ME after elrond etc sailed. Sam most certainly departed from the Grey Havens.


> 1482 On September 22nd Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the tower Hills and is last seen by Elanor, to whom he gives the red Book, afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is passed down from Elanor that Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over the sea, last of the ring bearers.


From Appendix B The Tale of Years. (The Return of the King.
I cannot believe that Sam would have found a ship that could find the Straight road, unless Cirdan was still there.


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## jallan (Mar 21, 2003)

And of course much later, even in writings made by J.R.R. Tolkien after the publication of _The Lord of the Rings_, a mortal man named Ælfwine managed to voyage to the Lonely Isle (but not, it seems to Aman itself).

In part Tolkien’s source for such tales are Irish stories of journeys into the west to isles where immortal folk dwell.

One might imagine that we are supposed to assume that some of these tales were, if one were to take Tolkien’s accounts as true, based on true stories of journeys to Eressëa.

Certainly Tolkien expect the name _Avalon_ to be derived from the Elvish haven of Avallónë and to have become known in some such fashion before even Ælfwine set sail


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## Eriol (Mar 25, 2003)

I'm sure there is a quote in the Sil (though perhaps not in the Quenta Silmarillion proper) that states that mortal men sometimes found the Straight Road, but that they were not able to survive it, and died within sight of Tol Eressëa. I don't have the book here, so if anyone could help with quotes it would be nice.

Also, the elvenfolk that did set sail from the Mouths of the Anduin in the 2nd Age were not even Sindar (I suppose Nimrodel was born in Lórien and was not related to Sindarin elves, and she intended to sail). So it seems any elven ship can find the Straight Road if they search for it, and it is not related to Círdan's craft or to the Grey Havens, which would then be merely the largest elf-haven in M-E, with nothing special besides it.

Just my two cents .


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## jallan (Mar 26, 2003)

Eriol posted:


> ... that mortal men sometimes found the Straight Road, but that they were not able to survive it, and died within sight of Tol Eressëa.


It doesn’t quite say that.

It says:


> And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallónë, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.


This is the end of the “Akallabêth” as edited by Christopher Tolkien for the published _Silmarillion_.

But the phrase “before they died” may not mean that the Men died during their voyages, only that certain Men saw the some of the wonders of the Undying Lands before their deaths, just as one might say that Christopher Columbus explored many unknown lands before his death.

Or Tolkien might mean that only those who attempted to come to Valinor itself met death.

In _The Peoples of Middle-earth_ (HoME 12), “The History of the Akallabêth”, Christopher Tolkien gives full details of his editorial changes in producing the _Akallabêth_ for the published _Silmarillion_ which he calls SA, most notably his dropping of phrases throughout the account that indicate that it is an oral “tale told by Pengoloð the Wise (as it must be supposed, though he is not named) in Tol Eressëa to Ælfwine of England, as becomes again very explicit (in the original) at the end; ....”

As to this original end which Christopher Tolkien dropped along with the other Ælfwine references, Christopher Tolkien notes:


> After the conclusion to the _Akallabêth_ in SA the following lines were omitted:
> 
> And whether all these tales be feigned, or whether some at least be true, and by them the Valar still keep alight among Men a memory beyond the darkness of Middle-earth, thou knowest now, Ælfwine, in thyself. Yet haply none shall believe thee.


The omitted paragraph has the Elf Pengolodh indicate to Ælfwine that these tales can be known to be, at least in part, true from the fact the Ælfwine himself, a mortal, has reached the Lonely Isle where Elves dwell.


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## Lantarion (Mar 27, 2003)

Ooh that's very interesting..
I had assumed that Pengolodh and Ælfwine were the same person..


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## Finarfin (May 2, 2003)

I seem to remember something about mortals not being able to endure the blessed realm - that it would actually kill them soon after they arrived. The explanation was something like that they would wither in the light of aman. Please someone tell me if im right or just going mad.


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## Lantarion (May 2, 2003)

You may very well be mad, but you're also correct.  
The land of Aman was blessed by the folk who dwelt there, who were 'undying'. Therefore if a mortal person went there, the 'immortality' of the land would eat away at their mortal soul, and though they would live in bliss they would live some time less than in mortal lands.


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## Lhunithiliel (May 3, 2003)

And how, do you think, is this "Straight road to the West" to be interpreted, or understood?

What is there in the ancient English and / or Irish tales that presupposes this particular direction?

How is to be understood or/and interpreted the idea of the "Road" not following the curve of the globe of the Earth... but going straight into ..... _where??_


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## Ithrynluin (May 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *How is to be understood or/and interpreted the idea of the "Road" not following the curve of the globe of the Earth... but going straight into ..... where?? *



I would say that ships following the straight path simply float off at some point, and vanish out of 'time'.


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## Finarfin (May 3, 2003)

An Irish legend is that a monk called St Brendan made the journey to america in the early middle ages. He apparently headed for the faroe islands, iceland and greenland before landing in newfoundland. He made the journey in a small little boat called a currach which was basically a wood frame with animal hides and pitch covering it.
His voyage was retraced in the late seventies by a guy called Tim Severin, using all the same materials and techniques that st Brendan would have used. He made the crossing successfully proving that the journey was possible.
Im not sure that this adds anything to the discussion, but i hope you found it interesting. Its the only Irish legend i can think of that relates to the topic. And i should know, it was beaten into us in primary school.


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## Niniel (May 4, 2003)

In the HOME (I think HOME 4) there is a map that shows the round Earth, with a line that goes horizontal from the upper side of the Earth, and "Straight way" written above the line. So it is as ithryn says, at some point a ship just doesn't follow the roundings of the Earth any more but floats away into space.


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## jallan (May 5, 2003)

Finarfin posted:


> Its the only Irish legend i can think of that relates to the topic.


There is actually much more.

In old days tales of sea voyages to strange lands inhabited by supernatural folk were something like the science fiction of our day.

Natually when such tales were told in Ireland, the strange islands and regions were imagined to exist in west.

The Voyage of Bran son of Febal is one such tale. In The Sick-bed of Cuchalain the hero is taken by the goddess Fand to an enchanted island in the western sea.

See also The Voyage of Máel Dúin’s Boat, The Voyage of Snégdus and Mac Ríagla, The Voyage of Úi Chorra and finally The Voyage of Saint Brendan.

One can see how the tales become increasingly Christianized.

Now you know enough to appreciate Tolkien’s poem “Imram” found in _Sauron Defeated_ (HoME 9), “The Notion Club Papers (Part Two)” which is Tolkien’s version of a condensation of the St. Brendan story, but using Tolkien’s“straight road” concept. Tolkien’s St. Brendan says:


> The Star? Why I saw it high and far
> at the parting of the ways,
> a light on the edge of the Outer Night
> beyond the Door of Days,
> ...


The meagre remains of Welsh tradition provide the poem The Spoils of Annwn which appears to cryptically relate a voyage of Arthur and his men in Arthur’s boat Prydwen.

The later Grail stories incorporate similar traditions. See The High History of the Holy Grail, Branch XXXV and voyages in Solomon’s ship in the grail story told in Le Morte d'Arthur, Book XVII.

Of couse Tolkien intends _Avalónë_, the name of the great haven in Eressëa, to be understood as the Arthurian Avalon.

There are also tales of voyages to fantastic lands in Norse tradition, but there the direction of sailing is to the north, not to the west.


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## Lhunithiliel (May 6, 2003)

Thank you, schollar jallan!!!!

You have given me quite a large homework !  
But I do not compalin. Because all those writings are of exceptional interest!

Once again 
THANK YOU!!!!


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## Tur-nen (May 6, 2003)

i think that like Beorn whos doom allowed him to pass though the wilderness it is the doom and gift of the eldar to live forever therfore they would be driven by destiny and Ulmo and Osseto get there


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## Finarfin (May 7, 2003)

AHA!! Ive just thought of another legend that almost directly relates to the subject. There is a legend about a guy called Oisín who rode off with a girl called Niamh on a magical white horse into the atlantic to a land called "Tír na n-Óg" or "The land of the young". Everyone who lived in that land was immortal


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## jallan (May 7, 2003)

Yes, a version of the Oisín story can be found at Niamh of the Golden Hair.

The twelfth century poet Marie de France also wrote about the Arthurian knight Lanval who at the end of the tale went with his lady love to Avalon: see Lanval

It was later adapted into English by Thomas Chestre as Sir Launfal.

There is a similar French story about Ogier the Dane, one of Charlemagne's twelve peers, who went off to Avalon to Morgaine la Fée who restored his youth and took him as her husband, but this seems not to be available on the net.

The only description of Avalon to come down to us is in Geoffrey of Monmouth’s Vita Merlini. Search in the text for _Avalon_.


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