# The Elessar



## Dengen-Goroth (Oct 15, 2001)

Ahh, the Green Gem in which the sunlight was captured yet radiated green. What do all of you think, Tolkien going back to Silmarils thing. I truly enjoyed the story. What do all of you think of the Elessar?


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## ¤-Elessar-¤ (Oct 17, 2001)

yea, it is beautiful, the shining star of days long past that will revive the spirit of a decaying Nation


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## Dengen-Goroth (Oct 18, 2001)

Wow, at least someone knows it.


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## Strider (Nov 2, 2001)

lol, i wonder if you'd read anything other than tolkien books, that was from one of the expansions, now, why in the world can't i remember that damned author's name?


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## Rosie Cotton (Nov 2, 2001)

Strider, are you thinking of the HOME (History of ME) books? They are papers and stories by JRR Tolkien, that were compiled by his son Christopher Tolkien.


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## Strider (Nov 2, 2001)

THANK YOU, i finally remembered, yes the ones by Chris Tolkien, they're not very well known, but they relate to tolkien's style. i swear, i could kiss ya for telling me that one! it's too bad that someone else is queen of gondor right now, because i swear, one i reach high king and my sword is healed, i would have made you my queen. LOL, i sound like a freak...


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## Rosie Cotton (Nov 2, 2001)

I feel so special  , you're quite welcome Strider!


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## Strider (Nov 2, 2001)

lol, let's say i enjoy to spread good cheer, that is my sword, and the humor of the inn is my sheild. my armor is that of my loved one, and my helm is that of the starry intellegence of life itself.
(not quite bragging, it's actually true in my somewhat miserable life)
ps- i'm no depressant or nerd, i'm a giant turd...
pss- wrestler, football player, lover, poet. need i go on?


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## Thorondor (Nov 2, 2001)

No you do not! Geez.


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## Grond (Nov 2, 2001)

Actually the Elessar was first identified in TLOTR, Chapter, Farewell to Lorien, PP391. In it Galadriel gives the green stone to Aragorn and says, "...This stone I gave to Celebrian my daughter, and she to hers; and now it comes to you as a token of hope. In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil" she can only mean that Aragorn would be recognised by the stone and that Elessar means Elfstone in the high tongue.

Strider, I think the score is now Grond 3 Strider 0


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## Greymantle (Nov 3, 2001)

*Chuckles and cheers*

And that's another screwed up thing in the movie-- Arwen gives the stone to Aragorn at Rivendell!


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## Strider (Nov 5, 2001)

oh, really, grond? then what do you say about the elfstone laid down in the middle of the bridge, for frodo and co to find? makes me kinda wonder about giving away elfstones, thus, elessar cannot be elfstone, i think i read somewheres that the elssar has something to do with i dunno, savior? besides, i don't care who beats me in what, as long as i get a say, thus, the score is 0-0, unless you insist i war to you, beware, i'm a whitecap...


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## Telchar (Nov 5, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Strider_
> ..then what do you say about the elfstone laid down in the middle of the bridge, for frodo and co to find? makes me kinda wonder about giving away elfstones, thus, elessar cannot be elfstone, i think i read somewheres that the elssar has something to do with i dunno, savior?


The stone you are reffering to was laid there by Gandalf, possibly to tell Aragorn that there where no enemies in the sorrounding area.

As for The Elessar, the green stone Given to Aragorn by Galadriel;


> Elessar; High title and surname of Aragorn son of Arathorn. It was long foretold that he would take this name. It was given to him in Lórien by Galadriel. She granted him a gift of a green stone set in a silver brooch in the shape of an eagle as he and the Company of the Ring left her land.





> "In this hour, take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!"
> -Galadriel


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## Greymantle (Nov 5, 2001)

Actually, wasn't it put there by Glorfindel? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Strider, I would guess that you might be mixing up "Ellesar" and "Estel." Estel was the name Aragorn grew up with, given to him by his mother (I think). It was Elvish for "hope."


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## Strider (Nov 6, 2001)

d'oh, your right, lol, i forgot that that was also strider/aragorn's younger name, but i thought the stone was laid by glorifindel too, greymantle, because i seem to remember frodo and co talking to th elf, and none saw gandalf until the very moment the water swept away the riders and killed their steeds.


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## Telchar (Nov 6, 2001)

Grey; Your right, my mistake..


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## Strider (Nov 6, 2001)

telchar, do you know of other elfstones? anyone interested in this discussion, see the board...


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## Cian (Nov 6, 2001)

> ... she can only mean that Aragorn would be recognised by the stone and that Elessar means Elfstone in the high tongue.



Right. The actual meaning is *Star-stone, from elen + sar (assimilation of n-s here in composition). Here _elen_ is used to mean "Elf" however ~ there had been earlier confusion among the Edain with _elen_ "star" and _elda_ "elf". 

In any event "Elfstone" yes


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## ¤-Elessar-¤ (Nov 14, 2001)

Yay for everyone, I knew you all would get it sooner or later, the actual stone, the name, and its meaning, it took u long enough though...


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## Greymantle (Nov 14, 2001)

Why, how polite.
Didn't see you contrbuting anything valuable to the discussion, either.


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## ¤-Elessar-¤ (Nov 14, 2001)

I only acnowledged it, i didnt want to ruin such a beautiful post- one with such potential!


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## Beren Erchanion (Dec 5, 2001)

Who give the Elessar to Gladriel Celebrimbor (Yes the Rings creator) or Olorìn (Yes Gandalf-Mithrandir-Tharkûn-Incánus)? How many Elessar there is one or two? Who create it Enerdhil or Celebrimbor?

C'mon let's continue this thread!! 

somewhere it's written that Enerdhil from Gondolin make the Elessar to contain the sunshine. After the fall of gondolin he give it to Ëarendil and Idril. 
Somewhere else it's written that Celebrimbor make it at Gondolin and than give it to Ëarendil who (in both cases) bring it to Aman.

Than Olorìn give it back to Galadriel during the 2nd Age because she couldn't go back to Aman yet and he wanted to proof the Valar forgiveness.

And somewhere else it's written that Celebrimbor tried to make another Elessar for Galadriel (either if it's him or Enerdhil who build the first)cause he wanted her, he loved her.

Do you have something more?


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## Grond (Dec 5, 2001)

Beren, I'm sure you're right but I have only The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings for reference. Apparently the stories you speak of are in the Unfinished Tales of The Histories of Middle Earth. Alas, I hope to get all of these for Christmas and then I promise you I'll come back and post an intelligent reply.


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## ¤-Elessar-¤ (Dec 6, 2001)

Im afraid i do not know the answer to these questions, but i think i beleive the one of galadriel and valar forgiveness. Alas, my knowledge on the subject is limmited to Aragorns name change after he recalimed Eraidor


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## Maedhros (Oct 21, 2002)

> somewhere it's written that Enerdhil from Gondolin make the Elessar to contain the sunshine. After the fall of gondolin he give it to Ëarendil and Idril.


I think that you referer to the Essay called The Elessar from UT:


> There was in Gondolin a jewel-smith named Enerdhil, the greatest of that craft among the Noldor after the death of Fëanor. Enerdhil loved all green things that grew, and his greatest joy was to see the sunlight through the leaves of trees. And it came into his heart to make a jewel within which the clear light of the sun should be imprisoned, but the jewel should be green as leaves. And he made this thing, and even the Noldor marvelled at it. For it is said that those who looked through this stone saw things that were withered or burned healed again or as they were in the grace of their youth, and that the hands of one who held it brought to all that they touched healing from hurt. This gem Enerdhil gave to Idril the King's daughter, and she wore it upon her breast; and so it was saved from the burning of Gondolin.





> But when Eärendil began his great voyages upon the Sea he wore the Elessar upon his breast, for amongst all his searchings the thought was always before him: that he might perhaps find Idril again; and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast, as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower. So it was that the Elessar passed away, when Eärendil returned no more to Middle-earth.


How did it return to ME then?


> "It is not so," said Olórin. "Their eyes are not dimmed nor their hearts hardened. In token of which look upon this!" And he held before her the Elessar, and she looked on it and wondered. And Olórin said: "This I bring to you from Yavanna. Use it as you may, and for a while you shall make the land of your dwelling the fairest place in Middle-earth. But it is not for you to possess. You shall hand it on when the time comes. For before you grow weary, and at last forsake Middle-earth one shall come who is to receive it, and his name shall be that of the stone: Elessar he shall be called."


There is another version of the Second Elessar.


> "That is its fate, I deem," said Celebrimbor. "But you know that I love you (though you turned to Celeborn of the Trees), and for that love I will do what I can, if haply by my art your grief can be lessened." But he did not say to Galadriel that be himself was of Gondolin long ago, and a friend of Enerdhil, though his friend in most things outrivalled him. Yet if Enerdhil had not been then Celebrimbor would have been renowned. Therefore he took thought, and began a long delicate labour, and so for Galadriel he made the greatest of his works (save the Three Rings only). And it is said that more subtle and clear was the green gem that he made than that of Enerdhil, but yet its light had less power. For whereas that of Enerdhil was lit by the Sun in its youth, already many years had passed ere Celebrimbor began his work, and nowhere in Middle-earth was the light as clear as it had been, for though Morgoth had been thrust out into the Void and could not enter again, his far shadow lay upon it. Radiant nonetheless was the Elessar of Celebrimbor


Of course there are problems with this version. How did Celebrimbor get to Gondolin? It is highly unlikely that after the sack of Nargothrond that he could have gone to Gondolin and actully found the entrance and dwell among Turgon.


> Celebrimbor is here again a jewel-smith of Gondolin, rather than one of the Fëanorians (cf. p.247); and Galadriel is spoken of as being unwilling to forsake Middle-earth (cf. p.246) - though the text was later emended and the conception of the ban introduced, and at a later point in the narrative she speaks of the pardon of the Valar.
> Enerdhil appears in no other writing; and the concluding words of the text show that Celebrimbor was to displace him as the maker of the Elessar in Gondolin. Of Celebrimbor's love for Galadriel there is no trace elsewhere.


So, I think it's safe to assume that Enerdhil is to be discarded and to make that Celebrimbor was the maker of both gems, but the problem is how to reconcile the fact that Celebrimbor was a smith in Gondolin. Certainly one of his status would have not gone unmentioned in the Quenta.


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## Ithrynluin (Nov 28, 2002)

The story of the Elessar and its connection to Galadriel, has always fascinated me. Both are amazing in their own ways:

- The first one because of the long road that the stone has travelled and the many great people that held it (Enerdhil,Idril,Eärendil,Yavanna!!,Olorin and Galadriel)
Also because Olorin brought it to Galadriel as a token of pardon from the Valar and the sign of hope for the race of men.

Question: How come the Elessar ended up in Yavanna's hands? Why not one of the other Valar?

- The second because of Celebrimbor's love for Galadriel (and the fact that he made a marvellous jewel for her out of affection)

So which version is more likely to be true? Tolkien never made a definite decision so let's speculate.
Maedhros,I do not understand why you think Enerdhil can be so easily discarded. IMO,there is not enough proof either way. 
I'm looking forward to an interesting discussion (hopefully the thread won't fall into oblivion)!


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## Elthir (Sep 29, 2017)

Maedhros said:


> (...) So, I think it's safe to assume that Enerdhil is to be discarded and to make that Celebrimbor was the maker of both gems, but the problem is how to reconcile the fact that Celebrimbor was a smith in Gondolin. Certainly one of his status would have not gone unmentioned in the Quenta.



It's rarely safe to assume 

Years later some rambler might ramble that he thinks "we" (me) should "better" plug Enerdhil back in to the conception where there was only one Elessar stone...

... keeping Celebrimbor in the conception where there were two Elessar stones, given both tales are, in my opinion, meant to have existed in the legendarium, no matter which is true.

I know what JRRT wrote at the end of the account (replace Enerdhil), but I think he possibly wrote this direction before he imagined Celebrimbor as a Feanorean, adding this detail only to the revised second edition of _The Lord of the Rings_ in the 1960s.

Anyway your seeming question (what to make of Celebrimbor _the Feanorean_ in Gondolin) is natural enough in my opinion, so as I say, I mentally ignore this end note and pop Enerdhil back in, keeping Celebrimbor for the second scenario.

That's my take. I might only wait (roughly) 15 years for your possible reply though.


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