# The Realms of Galadriel and Elrond



## Ancalagon (Jan 28, 2003)

I have a question!



> Of the Three Rings that the Elves had preserved unsullied no open word was ever spoken among the Wise, and few even of the Eldar knew where they were bestowed. Yet after the fall of Sauron their power was ever at work, and where they abode there mirth also dwelt and all things were unstained by the griefs of time. Therefore ere the Third Age was ended the Elves perceived that the Ring of Sapphire was with Elrond, in the fair valley of Rivendell, upon whose house the stars of heaven most brightly shone; whereas the Ring of Adamant was in the Land of Lórien where dwelt the Lady Galadriel. A queen she was of the woodland Elves, the wife of Celeborn of Doriath, yet she herself was of the Noldor and remembered the Day before days in Valinor, and she was the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth. But the Red Ring remained hidden until the end, and none save Elrond and Galadriel and Círdan knew to whom it had been committed.
> Thus it was that in two domains the bliss and beauty of the Elves remained still undiminished while that Age endured: in Imladris; and in Lothlórien, the hidden land between Celebrant and Anduin, where the trees bore flowers of gold and no Orc or evil thing dared ever come. Yet many voices were heard among the Elves foreboding that, if Sauron should come again, then either he would find the Ruling Ring that was lost, or at the best his enemies would discover it and destroy it; but in either chance the powers of the Three must then fail and all things maintained by them must fade, and so the Elves should pass into the twilight and the Dominion of Men begin.



If at any point, Galadriel or Elrond departed from their Kingdoms (ie. Meetings of the White Council etc.) would their realms become vulnerable without the power of either Ring protecting them? Are Lothlorien and Rivendell only able to sustain themselves and remain preserved while the Ringbearers resided there?


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## FoolOfATook (Jan 28, 2003)

That's the impression that I've always gotten. The nature of the Elvish Rings was to preserve, and you could extend that to mean "defend", I think. While I don't have any quotes to back me up right now, I've always assumed that it was only because of the Rings that these two realms remained secure.


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## Ithrynluin (Jan 28, 2003)

The Rings definitely strengthened the defense of these two realms, but it's impossible to say IMHO 



> that it was only because of the Rings that these two realms remained secure.



It was the valour of the people who dwelled there that provided the *primary* protection of Lórien and Imladris. Also Rivendell's secret location (more or less, it was not easy to find it at least), and the fact that Lórien had little or no dealings with the outside world (especially with mortals, men of Rohan and Gondor, who pretty much fear and avoid the Golden Wood).

I would also like to point out a difference between how Elrond used his ring and how Galadriel did.
Galadriel seems to wield Nenya at its fullest potency (time seemingly does not flow there at all, there is no taint or stain upon the land...almost like Valinor!, and the Fellowship notices that Lórien is like an island where the Elder Days still live, or something like that). 
Elrond is more modest with using Vilya, judging by the observation of the hobbits and their comparing it with Lórien (the _memory_ of the Elder Days was vivid in Rivendell, and the passage of time is felt almost normally).


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## Arvedui (Jan 29, 2003)

When it comes to the vulnerability of Imladris/Lothlórien, I don't think that the presence of the Ringbearers are crucial to the defences. IMO, the crucial part in taking care of the defence have been done beforehand through the use of the rings to establish realms were people had enough valour to take care of themselves, as ithrynluin suggested.

When it comes to the ability to susteain themselves and remain preserved, I think it would be nescesarry (sp?) for the Ringbearers to reside there, or at least not to be gone for an extended period of time. Support for this view can be found in the description of Lothlórien when Arwen went there to die.


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## Maeglin (Jan 29, 2003)

I would just like to add one thing. At the meetings of the White Council there was no great enemy to attack their realms, Sauron was only known as the Necromancer (at least in the Hobbit anyway) and was nowhere near strong enough to be openly assaulting any elvish realm. The rest of the Third age he was not powerful enough either, in fact he had just about no power until about the time of the Hobbit. Of course there were the Nazgul, but they all stayed hidden in Dol Guldur and didn't have any armies to help them anyway.


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## Lhunithiliel (Jan 30, 2003)

I have always thought that the rings of Elrond and Galadriel were used to make their realms in the blissful "Valinor"- fashion. But even Valinor needed armies to be protected!

I am sure both Elrond and Galadriel had quite strong military hosts to protect their realms. We get quite often information on how Lothlorien was defended and how orcs dared not step into it.... Why?! Orcs could not possibly understand anything too much except that that wood is dangerous becuase there was someone there who might kill them and who did this very successfully. THIS the orcs feared! 
Besides, in the Appendices in ROTK, there is a brief account on how the War of the Ring was carried in the North - mainly in and around Mirkwood - Dol Guldur. Celeborn and Galadriel fought out of Lothlorien the enemy and then joined Thranduil and fought against Dol Guldur. One Ring, one sole Elvishg magic could not help much in that severe war!

Besides, I have always thought about the Rings as means of making "fair" things". I guess they were used only for _good_ and peaceful causes - to enrich the lands, to delay time....

As for Rivendell, it was not Gondolin, of course, and it did not have the Girdle of Melian... but it was in a location difficult to be found, That's true. Yet, I am sure, though it is not said directly anywhere (if not mistaken), that Elrond did have military units available in order to protect Rivendell! And the Rangers from the North were there! 
Besides, weren't the Elves ALWAYS ready for fight?! One gets this impression, you know.... One sees these fair creatures singing merrily and feasting...but when it comes to defending their peace or their cause, they become ruthless warriors!

To summon it all up:
The realms of Galadriel and Elrond were fair because of the Rings, but were well protected thanks to the bows and the swords of the renowned elven warriors.

My opinion, of course


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## gate7ole (Jan 31, 2003)

From the Appentices of LOTR:


> After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him, but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, *but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself.* Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods in the borders, the assaults were driven back;


The impression that I get from this phrase is that first of all was the power of the Ring and then the valour. It means sth like “well, the elves had great valour and fought well, but the Ring was the one that saved them three times”.
I don’t want to underestimate the power of the Elves, but remember that they were not High-Elves, not even Sindar. The great majority of the population was Silvan Elves and possibly Avari. Without the influence of the Ring, they wouldn’t stand a chance against the three times greater armies of Sauron.
As for Rivendell, it was more “noble” since there dwelt almost exclusively High-Elves, but still how many? 500? I don’t think such a number is enough.
From the council of Elrond:


> What power still remains lies with us, here in Imladris, or with Cirdan at the Havens, or in Lórien. But have they the strength, have we here the strength to withstand the Enemy, the coming of Sauron at the last, when all else is overthrown?' `I have not the strength,' said Elrond; `neither have they.'


Here Elrond says that he cannot withstand the Enemy WITH the ring. Without the Ring it is out of the question.

Also I want to agree with ithrynluin about the difference between Imladris and Lórien. Galadriel overused the Ring and the consequences of the destruction of the One were the desolation of Lórien. On the other hand, Imladris held and continued to be a centre of power, since it was not so dependent on the magic abilities of the Ring, though I’m sure its powers were greatly diminished.


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## Sangahyando (Nov 16, 2005)

Think, Galadriel and Elrond themselves didn't really protect their territory. Elrond had become a depressed coot after Arwen decided not leave M-e. Galadriel sat up in Caras Galadhon and just looked into her mirror. Elrond formed the Fellowship and Galadriel gifted the Fellowship, Galadriel saved Gandalf at Zirak-zigil and Elrond saved Frodo at the fords of Bruinen. They are equals.

Sangahyando, great-grandson of Castamir the Usurper


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## Alcuin (Nov 16, 2005)

I always had the impression that each of the Three Rings had some defining characteristic, some separate power different from the others. Narya, the Ring of Fire which Círdan gave to Gandalf, had the power to strengthen hearts, something Gandalf did often in the dark days of the Third Age and during the story told in Lord of the Rings. This ability would have been important to the Eldar who remained in Middle-earth in regret lest they leave for the Uttermost West in despair. Gandalf is the most inspiring personage in Middle-earth. Narya, the Ring of Adamant, apparently had not only the power to hold back Time, but to resist decay. Again, this would be something important to the Eldar: to resist or hold back change; perhaps Galadriel used it to resist Sauron as well: she certainly seems to resist his power when we see her in Lórien. Galadriel is the greatest of the Noldor who remain in Middle-earth. Vilya, the Ring of Air or of the Sky, seems to enhance wisdom and lore and knowledge, thins the Noldor valued highly: Elrond is the wisest of the Eldar remaining in Middle-earth. As Elrond put it to Glóin at the Council, 


> ‘The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. … But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become revealed to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been. That is his purpose.’


 So it is that in the realm of Lórien, things remain made as they were in the First Age of the Sun, preserved unstained. And in Rivendell there is deep understanding and a remembrance of things past, where tales are recalled to their right endings when all others have forgotten them. (When Elrond leaves Middle-earth, there is no one left to remember the gallantry or the actions taken by the Chieftains of the Dúnedain of the North, for instance; and Aragorn tells the hobbits that no one other than Elrond recalls the right ending of the Tale of Beren and Lúthien.) Gandalf can heal hearts and minds as he roams about Gondor and Eriador and the surrounding lands. And as Elrond, Galadriel, and even Gandalf have used these things, extensively, it would seem. Galadriel tells Frodo: 


> But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!’
> ..
> “If you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy,”


 and their minds, their works, and their wills – even, we must assume, the will of Gandalf the Enemy of Sauron – will be laid bare and vulnerable to Sauron’s tender mercies.

But only two realms were established with the Three; Gandalf wandered about. Was one the two kingdoms weakened when its Keeper of one of the Three left its boundaries? To some extent no doubt, but some residual of that power might be left behind as a power or warding to keep away the bad guys, a work of the Keeper through the Ring. What does Galadriel say to Sam when giving him his little box of earth from her garden as the Company prepares to depart?


> In this box there is earth from my orchard, and such blessing as Galadriel has still to bestow is upon it.


 Her native power is running short, and without the sustaining energy of the Ring of Power, she must “diminish, and go into the West [to] remain Galadriel.”

But even with the Rings, Gandalf believed Sauron was preparing a crippling blow against Lórien and Rivendell using Smaug the Dragon:


> “I was very troubled at that time ... I knew that Sauron had arisen again and would soon declare himself, and I knew that he was preparing for a great war. … I thought then, and I am sure now, that to attack Lórien and Rivendell, as soon as he was strong enough was his original plan. It would have been a much better plan for him, and much worse for us.
> 
> “You may think that Rivendell was out of his reach, but I did not think so. … The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. Often I said to myself: “I must find some means of dealing with Smaug. …’
> 
> ...just as I was nearing Bree I was overtaken by Thorin Oakenshield, 1 who lived then in exile beyond the north-western borders of the Shire. To my surprise he spoke to me; and it was at that moment that the tide began to turn.


 So even with the Rings, the elves lacked the strength to defeat the Dragon, much less Sauron himself, even if he lacked the One Ring.


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