# Colour of the eyes



## Rasec (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey, i want to know if it was ever mentioned, in any of the books, the colour of any character's eyes. I particularly love eyes, I think they have a special function in our feeling's expressions. Please help me.

See u,
Cesar Filho.

PS: I love blue eyes. ;)


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## Mithlond (Jul 28, 2002)

Hello there cesarfilho.
Tolkien described most of the elves as having 'grey' eyes.
There really isnt any other colours i picked up during my many readings of the book, most of the characters seemed to have grey eyes.


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## Rasec (Jul 28, 2002)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for telling me that, Mithlond! And welcome to the forum! As I can see, it's your second post here. Enjoy the forum!
It is really rare to see 'grey' eyes... I think that people who have 'grey' eyes are probably from Britain.. my teacher from Oxford seems to have 'grey' eyes, though I have never seen someone in Brazil who has 'grey' eyes.. well, hope u got it. Tolkien's descriptions are awesome anyway!

see u,
Cesar Filho.


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## Galadhwen (Jul 28, 2002)

*Eyes 2*

Hi Cesarfilho, 
I know what you mean about eyes, you can really tell a person by them I think.
Yea, the elves did have grey eyes mostly, so why then in the film have they all got blue eyes? I don't know if it's just me but the colour of Legolas' eyes seem to change from blue to brown! Did Orlando's contacts fall out in a scene? Also hair colour seems to change in the film too- only the Golden House of Fingolfin had, surprisingly enough gold hair which means Galadriel is fine but what about Celeborn and Haldir in particular, they should have dark hair!
I hope there are some more Britts here to back me up, but I've hardly ever seen people with grey eyes all my friends have either dark or blue eyes- I prefer dark eyes my self.
C ya
Galadhwen


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## Ceorl (Jul 28, 2002)

Treebeard apparently had brown eyes, shot with a green light. Also the knights of Dol Amroth were described as being Tall as Lords with Sea-Grey Eyes. 

Tolkien found eyes a brilliant way of conveying to the reader a characters personality and stature, the eyes of the people in ME I think were a little exaggerated, because maybe it is just me but I have never been able to tell anything about anyone through their eyes in RL.

Tolkien used Grey eyes often to signify the sea and those with a love for the sea. The knights of Dol Amroth who lived by the sea had 'sea-grey' eyes. This would explain why the Elves who had a connection with the sea in their very blood, were often described with grey eyes. I cant find it at the moment but I think I remember Gandalfs eyes being described as blue and sparkling.

Also I have noticed alot of people saying that Fingolfins house was the only one with fair hair. I have never found anything that says that please tell me where it is.


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## Rasec (Jul 28, 2002)

Hey, thanks a lot u two! Yeah, Galadhwen, I also think that Orlando Bloom's eyes change sometimes! But I think it's just a matter of light! When there is strong light, we can SEE that his eyes are blue (contact lens), but when the light is weak, (or when the camera is far from his face) his eyes doesn't look blue. I told my cousin that Orlando was wearing blue contacts and she didn't believe becos she didn't really see his eyes blue at any time in the movie. Actually, I wouldn't have noticed too... I just got to know becos someone said in the forum and then I saw a picture too..
Hey, have u never seen someone with grey eyes? To tell u the truth, I have seen someone in Brazil. There is a girl in my classroom who has "dirty river coloured eyes" - she says, which means brown-grety eyes.. and as i said, my teacher from Oxford.
Thanks Ceorl, i guess you're right!

See u all,
Cesar Filho.


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## Samwise_hero (Jul 28, 2002)

I don't know what colour any of the character's eyes were. but elijah wood made frodo look good (in the movie) with his blues! Even though in the books you're basically left to decide for yourself. which is one of the best things about a book/novel.

(I know i didn't answer your question, sorry i just wanted to write my piece)


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## HLGStrider (Jul 29, 2002)

Gandalf was described somewhere to have blue eyes, I believe.

Aragorn had gray (or grey) eyes describe as Keen. 

Tolkien had a thing for light eyes. I have brown eyes which I like to call "warm brown" eyes which I also like to think of as kitty shaped...

The most beautiful eyes in the world belong to this one boy I know. They are dark brown with rather long eyelashes and they make shivers run up and down my spine when he smiles... burrrrrrrrrrrrr... hence my user title...  

Where was I?

The only one I remember being described as Brown Eyed was possibly Maeglin, the betrayer elf... but that's only because he was described as a dark elf which could also be something about skin tone (I know several had dark hair so it couldn't be that...).


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## Lantarion (Jul 29, 2002)

Classifying all Elves as having grey eyes is, IMHO, incorrect. Some did, certainly, but without a doubt many more had green, brown and blue eyes. The Númenóreans are described as having Sea-grey eyes, yes; but it is a quick note, and gives more information about the mood, tone and mien of the Men of Westernesse than about their anatomy! 

And welcome Ceorl, Galadwhen and Mithlond!


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## Legolam (Jul 29, 2002)

My best friend has grey eyes, and if you look closely it is pretty weird!

I did find it a bit unbelievable in the film that everyone seemed to have blue eyes, regardless of their hair colour.


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## Cian (Jul 29, 2002)

Classifying the Eldar as grey-eyed is correct however, in _general_ terms, 'cause JRRT does in Appendix F.

*Re: Eyes 2*



> _Originally posted by Galadhwen: _
> ... but what about Celeborn and Haldir in particular, they should have dark hair!



Speaking of eye colour, Celeborn had silver hair.





> _Originally posted by Ceorl _ Also I have noticed alot of people saying that Fingolfins house was the only one with fair hair. I have never found anything that says that please tell me where it is.



The house of Finarfin was known for its blondies. The Sindar and Noldor were mostly dark-haired however. Exceptions (and other colours) occuring of course.


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## Grond (Jul 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cian _
> *The house of Finarfin was known for its blondies. The Sindar and Noldor were mostly dark-haired however. Exceptions (and other colours) occuring of course. *


A quote to support my good friend Cian's correct assertions.


> _From Appendix F, II On Translation, concerning Elves_
> ...They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as kings, who now are gone; the People of the Great Journey, the people of the Stars. they were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finarfin; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard. They were valiant, but the history of those that returned to Middle-earth in exile was grievous; and though it was in far-off days crossed by the fate of the Fathers, their fate is not that of Men. Their dominion passed long ago, and they dwell now beyond the circles of the world, and do not return.


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## aragil (Jul 31, 2002)

I seem to be sewing cornfusion wherever I go, so I thought I might try my hand here. Two known facts:

1)Of the original 3 tribes (the followers of '1', '2', and '3' from the story in _Quendi and Eldar_, HoME 11), only the followers of '1' had any blondies

2)All of the descendants of the followers of '1' travelled to Aman, becoming the kindred otherwise known as the Vanyar. Of the 100% Vanyar Elves, none returned to Middle-earth (excepting the brief interlude of battle at the end of the First Age). Some of the Noldo-Vanyar mixes such as Galadriel and Finrod _did_ return to Middle-earth, but they are easily accounted for.

So, from this information we shouldn't expect any Silvan (i.e. Non-Sindarin Dark Elves) to have blonde hair. And yet, from the _Lord of the Rings_ chapter in which the Fellowship crosses the Celebrant in Lorien, there is a clear description of one of the (presumably Silvan) Elves of Lorien having hair 'shining like gold'. This could of course be a rare individual, or a slip of the pen, but I like to think of the 'dark-haired' descriptions as being general trends, with individuals of the different tribes being perfectly capable of having either blonde or dark hair.

And of course, as Cian has pointed out before, the kin of Elwe (Thranduil, Celeborn, and Cirdan, and of course Elwe himself) all have silver hair.


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## HLGStrider (Jul 31, 2002)

GREAT!!! NOW I'M CONFUSED!!! 

Actually, I really don't care that much, though I will continue to think of all those elves of Lorien as blondies... Like me!!!


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## Jon (Jul 31, 2002)

I read somewhere that Hobbits were all dark-skinned and brown-eyed, so technically Frodo having blue eyes in the film is incorrect 

In the books it says that Gandalf had dark eyes, but people here are saying he had blue eyes. I`d guess then that he had dark blue eyes.

Saruman is said to have black eyes in the book, but this probably means very dark brown. Has anyone ever seen anyone with black eyes?

The Dark Elves were so called because they were the ones who stayed behind in Middle Earth, which is a `darker` place than the Undying Lands. I don`t think it was a reference to how they looked. All the elves in ME were Dark Elves, and so were of diverse shades and hues


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## pohuist (Jul 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jon _
> *
> Saruman is said to have black eyes in the book, but this probably means very dark brown. Has anyone ever seen anyone with black eyes?
> 
> The Dark Elves were so called because they were the ones who stayed behind in Middle Earth, which is a `darker` place than the Undying Lands. I don`t think it was a reference to how they looked. All the elves in ME were Dark Elves, and so were of diverse shades and hues *



I have a friend who has black eyes. 
All the elves who stayed and/or were born in ME were indeed 'Dark Elves', but at the time there were plenty High Elves (though born and/or lived in Valinor) in ME (For example -- Galadriel)


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## HLGStrider (Jul 31, 2002)

Frodo was "fairer than most"... Could this be a reference to his eyes? It wasn't only in the movie that he had blue eyes. He does on the front of my copy of the Fellowship of the Rings (Ballantine... I'm not sure the year, but I don't really like the pictures anyway). 

Sauron has yellow or red eyes... cat like eyes.
Why do cats get such a bad wrap?


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## indexerkevin (Jul 31, 2002)

Very interesting thread you started. I too am fascinated by eyes. And like Eomer, I am attracted to the Evenstar, the darker the hair and the darker the eyes, the better. My personal theory is my Celtic background; I have a genetic immunity to blondes!

In the tale of Arwen and Aragorn, she is described as having dark hair and dark eyes, which I take to mean brown.



> _Originally posted by indexerkevin _
> *
> In the tale of Arwen and Aragorn, she is described as having dark hair and dark eyes, which I take to mean brown. *



Turns out this was a pigment of my imagination. The Tale of Arwen and Aragorn only mentions her dark hair. Then I checked Many Meetings and Frodo describes her as having grey eyes when she is at the feast the night before the Council.

Dohh!


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## Tar-Elenion (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> I seem to be sewing cornfusion wherever I go, so I thought I might try my hand here. Two known facts:
> 
> 1)Of the original 3 tribes (the followers of '1', '2', and '3' from the story in _Quendi and Eldar_, HoME 11), only the followers of '1' had any blondies



Does Q&E state that _only_ the Minyar were blond? It does note that the group from which the Noldor mostly sprung (the second set of Tatyar) were dark-haired.



> 2)All of the descendants of the followers of '1' travelled to Aman, becoming the kindred otherwise known as the Vanyar. Of the 100% Vanyar Elves, none returned to Middle-earth (excepting the brief interlude of battle at the end of the First Age). Some of the Noldo-Vanyar mixes such as Galadriel and Finrod _did_ return to Middle-earth, but they are easily accounted for.
> 
> So, from this information we shouldn't expect any Silvan (i.e. Non-Sindarin Dark Elves) to have blonde hair. And yet, from the _Lord of the Rings_ chapter in which the Fellowship crosses the Celebrant in Lorien, there is a clear description of one of the (presumably Silvan) Elves of Lorien having hair 'shining like gold'. This could of course be a rare individual, or a slip of the pen, but I like to think of the 'dark-haired' descriptions as being general trends, with individuals of the different tribes being perfectly capable of having either blonde or dark hair.



There could have been some intermarriage between the Minyar and Nelyar before the seperation. It is, as you suggest, possible that the Nelyar though predominately dark-haired had some other colourations among them from their beginning. I too would suggest that it was simply rare. 



> And of course, as Cian has pointed out before, the kin of Elwe (Thranduil, Celeborn, and Cirdan, and of course Elwe himself) all have silver hair.



Thranduil was golden-haired not silver-haired


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## Grond (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aragil _
> *...So, from this information we shouldn't expect any Silvan (i.e. Non-Sindarin Dark Elves) to have blonde hair. And yet, from the Lord of the Rings chapter in which the Fellowship crosses the Celebrant in Lorien, there is a clear description of one of the (presumably Silvan) Elves of Lorien having hair 'shining like gold'. This could of course be a rare individual, or a slip of the pen, but I like to think of the 'dark-haired' descriptions as being general trends, with individuals of the different tribes being perfectly capable of having either blonde or dark hair.
> 
> And of course, as Cian has pointed out before, the kin of Elwe (Thranduil, Celeborn, and Cirdan, and of course Elwe himself) all have silver hair. *


In general, I agree that all of the Silvan Elves should not have any blonde genes; however, there were remnants of the Noldoran Elves of Eregion in both Lorien and Imladris as described in various parts of the Sil and UT. It is likely that the descendants of these Noldor could have golden hair. If I remember correctly, Glorfindel was a golden haired boy.


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## Lantarion (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Last posted by indexerkevin_
> Turns out this was a pigment of my imagination


LOL. 

Glorfindel was indeed golden-haired, as his name might hint at!


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## Cian (Aug 1, 2002)

Did I write Thranduil had silver hair? Hrmm, in any case I'm usually more than aware of that "blond detail" due to my usual: "I think Legolas was dark-haired" rants  even though Thranduil ...

Indeed it was said that the companions of Tata (at the choosing of the 36 that is) were tall and dark-haired, and from them most of the Noldor were later sprung. Tata had an earlier choosing, so I think Tar-E is referring to the 36 with "second set" of Tatyar. I think 

Heck, according to Q & E I think there might be some colouration outside blond in the _Vanyar_ (dark-haired Vanyar? _gasp_) as they were in "nearly" all members golden or yellow-haired.


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## Grond (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cian _
> *Did I write Thranduil had silver hair? I'm usually more than aware of that "blond detail" due to my usual: "I think Legolas was dark-haired" rants, even though Thranduil ...
> 
> Indeed it was said that the companions of Tata (at the choosing of the 36 that is) were tall and dark-haired, and from them most of the Noldor were later sprung. Tata had an earlier choosing, so I think Tar-E is referring to the 36 with "second set" of Tatyar. I think
> ...


I'm sure the good professor meant to add, "for the most part" when referring to colorations of hair and eyes. In general, the Vanyar were fair haired and in general the rest of the Elves were dark haired and gray eyed. It seems that many unions of the various branches of Elves occured and this would mix the gene pool making fair haired Noldor/Teleri an almost certainty (although rare) and dark haired Vanyar (although rare) just as likely.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 2, 2002)

Is it possible that Frodo did have light eyes? If golden hair can turn up, perhaps light eyes can too?

I just wanted to check this out with you guys...


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## Grond (Aug 2, 2002)

Elgee, it states in the works that the Baggins family had a great strain of Fallohide blood running through it. It also describes the Fallohides as taller and slimmer of build than the average Hobbit, while both their skin and their hair tended to be fair. I would think with fair hair and skin that it possible that their eyes would also bear a fair gene which would allow for blue eyes. 

You can read more about Fallohides in the books or here is a link for a little more information. 
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fallohides.html


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## indexerkevin (Aug 2, 2002)

Tom Bombadil had blue eyes.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 2, 2002)

Thanks, Grond.


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## Jon (Aug 2, 2002)

HGLStrider - when the majority of a given poulation has brown or black eyes, the `other` colour, if it occurs, will tend to green rather than blue. Probably Frodo would have had hazel eyes, that is, a mixture of brown and green.

I think of the `harfoot` (that is, the Shire type) hobbits as being very dark caucasian, like cypriots or albanians, even arabs or central asians. In these poulations green and blue eyes do occur, although very rarely.

When they do they are almost always a clear or muted-light version of blue or green, not `steely` blue for example. Together with dark skin this has a striking and beautiful effect


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## HLGStrider (Aug 2, 2002)

I'll accept the genetic fluke. 

Anyway, it seems a pretty popular belief that he does have blue eyes. My books have pretty lousy pictures on them anyway. Legolas looks like a deranged folk singer.


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## Rasec (Aug 3, 2002)

*Thanks*

thanks to all of u who posted here. hey, i'll write down what i think of somethings posted.
#1) Legolas has fair eyes. (it is said in TTT, chapter II "But Legolas stood beside him, protecting his fair elvish eyes...") **
#2) I dont think that Frodo had really blue eyes. I belive that PJ prefers fair eyes, so he decided to give contacts to the brown-eyed actors. (though it is not Elijah Wood's case)
#3) I see no-one in the movie that has green eyes, neither grey.
#4) I have seen black-eyed people. Japaneses and descendents tend to have very dark or black eyes. (like the hair).

**Im not sure that this quote is correct written in English. My book is in portuguese and I just translated it the way I guess it is.

Questions:
#1) Does any dwarf have fair eyes (blue and green) ??
#2) Why do u think that PJ gave Frodo light blue eyes, and all the other hobbits had dark eyes? (is this affirmation correct? lol)
#3) Why does PJ didnt include grey and green eyes? (does he have a problem with 'g' words?)

I think thats all.
see u, people!

Cesar Filho. =) 
(The fairer the eyes, the better!)


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## Gil-Galad (Aug 3, 2002)

Amd Gil-Galad has black eyes and black hair.....isn't it cool.If you want to see him in the movie there is a scene it tne very beginnig where you cans see it.The three elves which are shown holding the three rings for elves are Cirdan,Galdriel and Gil-Galad.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 3, 2002)

I really need to rent that... the only face I can clearly remember from that scene is Galadriels... In my memory she had kind of a spaced out look like "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh shiny"... made an impression. For some reason I thought that one of the other elves was Elrond... but my memory isn't that good and I only saw it once.


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## Gil-Galad (Aug 3, 2002)

O I have watched the movie seven times and I know all small details .You can see me and later in the movie.There's a scene,just a small part of the second,during the battle in front of Barad-Dur.An elf with blacklong hair,is fighting with Aeglos.If you wacth carefully you will see it.Hey HLGStrider write something more cause I shoud stay awake till the time for my dj set come,but I'm really falling asleep


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## HLGStrider (Aug 3, 2002)

I'll do my best...


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## Gil-Galad (Aug 3, 2002)

I hope so....just for 15 minutes


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## Leinad Nosugref (Jul 3, 2019)

Mithlond said:


> Hello there cesarfilho.
> Tolkien described most of the elves as having 'grey' eyes.
> There really isnt any other colours i picked up during my many readings of the book, most of the characters seemed to have grey eyes.


Actually, Tolkien gives various characters different colored eyes in particular Gandalf. In The Fellowship of the Ring, book 2, chapter one he describes Gandalf's eyes as follows: "...under great snowy brows his dark eyes were set like coals that could leap suddenly into fire." This description indicates to me that his eyes were black "like coals."


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