# Did Tolkien hate cats?



## Asgemsuponasilverthread (Aug 11, 2020)

Hey. I own 2 little kittens, and all dogs i have ever owned were either crazy, disobeyed me, or both, so you could say i prefer cats.

So i am kinda disturbed by how my favourite writer clearly hates them.

I am reading B&L and Tevildo and his 'thanes' are clearly depicted as evil. Not only that, but there is written 'wherefore elves bear a hatred to cats to this day' or something like that.

Meanwhile dogs are almost always portayed positively. Upon meeting Beren the Elf for the first time, Tevildo reacts 'i smell dog' because apparently Beren the elf used to be buddies with hounds back home. The only time i can think of when dogs are portrayed SOMEWHAT negatively is Farmer Maggot's hounds. But then again, they only do that to protect their master. There are also evil wolves, wargs and werewolves, but these are just relatives of the domestic dog.

There is also a poem about a cat in the tales from the forgotten realm where tolkien describes house cats as being inferior to the 'free' cats like lions

And also there is a comparison made between Shelob and Sauron and a female cat and her owner in tTT. This is not flattering.

Cats used to serve Queen Beruthiel, which is not flattering either.

There were only two passages in LOTR where cats are not looked down upon. First Frodo's poem in Bree (IIRC) involves a cat. Second Aragorn describes Gandalf's pathfinding as being better than that of Queen Beruthiel's cats, which i guess is somewhat flattering if you ignore the fact Queen Beruthiel was looked down upon.

And yes i know about the letter about Siamese cats but that is a specific breed of cat.

So did Tolkien hate cats?

I guess lovers of spiders have the same concerns with Tolkien 😄

And don't think i am triggered i am just curious whether my favourite writer hated my favourite animal (besides tortoises)

Please don't laugh at me for my bad English don't speak English properly yet


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## rollinstoned (Aug 11, 2020)

Your English is fine. 

Socially back when LOTR was written people in England very much owned Pet Cats as a defence against mice and other pests. They were viewed almost as "working" animals. Dogs were much more highly regarded as they played a key role in WW2 (and WW1). 

anything pre-1970s relating to England is very much shaped by the war. Even that culture of the 1960s was directly influenced by the war. 

Rare exceptions did exist with people very much loving their cat as a proper pet, but i know for a fact most were kept as a defence against pests. 


I don't think Tolkien hated cats, he probably just had a lesser view of them.


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## Olorgando (Aug 11, 2020)

I don't recall there ever being a mention of JRRT's family owning pets of any kind. And I think that the way we have pets these days, as RS mentioned above for England, is very much a post-WW II thing, and only really getting started quite a while after WW II. Cats, and many small terriers, and ferrets and the like were kept for pest control. Dogs mainly for hunting or as guard dogs (or trackers). Or, I would guess, as pets somewhat as we do now almost entirely by the aristocracy or very rich bourgeoise.
And as JRRT did write somewhat in the fairy-stories mode (though he preferred to spell it faërie), derived as that is from older myths and legends on which he also drew, much of what was held in religious beliefs and / or superstitions probably colored his writing. And cats definitely have a worse rep in that than do dogs (wolves are another matter).


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## Alcuin (Aug 11, 2020)

I don’t know about Tolkien and cats in particular, but he did comment on his feelings towards spiders. In one of his letters, Tolkien remarked that due to his depiction of Shelob, people often assumed he was disgusted by spiders. He then remarked (a) that he never said Shelob _was_ a spider, but that she was _most like_ a spider, and (b) that spiders he found in the bath he usually rescued and took outdoors. 

But as regards cats, Sauron first appeared in Tolkien’s stories as *Tevildo*, “Prince of Cats”, a great black cat with a golden collar, chief of Morgoth’s servants. In the earliest tales, it was Tevildo who was defeated by Lúthien and Huan the Hound of Valinor. After they took his golden collar, Tevildo fled into hiding to avoid Morgoth’s mockery. In the later stories, Sauron was defeated by Lúthien and Huan, then fled into hiding to avoid Morgoth’s derision. And later Sauron made himself a golden ring, was greatly weakened when Isildur took it from him, then incapacitated when Gollum accidentally destroyed it. Another connection between Sauron and Tevildo is Frodo’s vision of the Eye of Sauron in Galadriel’s Mirror, where it is described as “yellow as a cat’s, … [with a] black slit of [a] pupil”. 

Finally, in a 1966 interview with his former student, Daphne Castell, “The Realms of Tolkien”, first published in the magazine _New Worlds_, Tolkien discusses Queen Berúthiel and her relationship with her cats. Berúthiel “was one of these people who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about – you know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them?” The interview is still available online at this link.


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## Elthir (Aug 12, 2020)

Tolkien didn't even hate Ohlmarks’ cat.

🐾

🐾


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## necaisjackie (Oct 5, 2021)

I'm not sure about Tolkien and cats in particular, but he did make a statement regarding his emotions about spiders. Tolkien commented in one of his letters that because of his portrayal of Shelob, people often believed he was repulsed by spiders. He then noted (a) that he never claimed Shelob was a spider, but that she looked a lot like one, and (b) that spiders he discovered in the bath were typically saved and taken outside.
However, in terms of cats, Sauron originally appeared in Tolkien's writings as Tevildo, "Prince of Cats," a big black cat with a golden collar that served as the leader of Morgoth's minions. Tevildo was vanquished by Lthien and Huan the Hound of Valinor in the earliest stories. Tevildo went into hiding when they stole his golden collar to avoid Morgoth's ridicule. Later legends see Sauron being beaten by Lthien and Huan, then fleeing into hiding to avoid Morgoth's scorn. Later, Sauron created a golden ring for himself, but was considerably weakened when Isildur snatched it away from him. Then it became disabled when Gollum unintentionally destroyed it. Another link between Sauron and Tevildo is Frodo's view of the Eye of Sauron in Galadriel's Mirror, which is described as "yellow as a cat's,... [with] a] black slit of [a] pupil."

Finally, Tolkien describes Queen Berthiel and her connection with her cats in a 1966 interview with his former pupil, Daphne Castell, titled "The Realms of Tolkien," which was initially published in the journal New Worlds. Berthiel "was one of these individuals who despises cats, yet cats will jump on them and follow them about - you know how cats sometimes chase people who despise them?


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## Aukwrist (Oct 6, 2021)

I’m surprised this passage has not been referred to:

“But suddenly the Mirror went altogether dark, as dark as if a hole had opened in the world of sight, and Frodo looked into emptiness. In the black abyss there appeared a single Eye that slowly grew. until it filled nearly all the Mirror. So terrible was it that Frodo stood rooted, unable to cry out or to withdraw his gaze. *The Eye was rimmed with fire, but was itself glazed, yellow as a cat's, watchful and intent, *and the black slit of its pupil opened on a pit, a window into nothing.”

Tevildo is clearly to some extent, like the wizard Thu, a literary forebear of Sauron; at least in some respects, as a subordinate of Melko(r).

For the record, I adore my calico cat. She is adorable, and very “watchful”.


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## Alcuin (Oct 7, 2021)




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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 7, 2021)

Now where have I seen that before? 🤔


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## Olorgando (Oct 7, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> View attachment 10433


Computers run on electricity. Pee is a good conductor of electricity (try peeing on one of those electric fences that guard cattle, sheep or goats ...  ).
So I have difficulty imagining the situation having any subtlety when the sparks start flying ... 🙀


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## Alcuin (Oct 7, 2021)

Had that experience as a teenager. It was a long way to my uncle’s house on his farm, and I missed the cattle restriction device hiding in the bushes out in the middle of a large field. Missed it visibly, that is. Hit it square on, first shot. I learned the exact position and shape of my bladder. 

I don’t know what would happen to a cat on a computer. I know coffee, soft drinks like lemonade, sodas, and bottled water won’t electrocute you or even give you a jolt from a keyboard, and I’ve ruined a lot of keyboards over the past 40 years using computers. I’ve never seen one spark. But I have _heard_ of cats watering them, and none of the cats were reported worse for the wear, though the keyboards (and occasionally a laptop) were retired as a result. 

By the way, I still wouldn’t deliberately try pouring something on a keyboard to see what happens. Just in case I drew the short straw that one time.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 7, 2021)

Well now, for anyone looking for a "Pee" thread here. . .

. . .urine luck. 😑


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## Alcuin (Oct 7, 2021)

John Ruskin (1819-1900), the art critic, is reported to have tossed a cat out a window. That may be a fouled recapitulation of this tale he told (_John Ruskin_, by Timothy Hilton, Yale University Press, 2000; page 667):
As I put forth my hand to the window a large black cat sprang at me from behind the mirror! Persuaded that the foul fiend was here at last in his own person, though in so insignificant a form … I grappled it with both my hands, and gathering all the strength that was in me, I flung it with all my might against the floor.​No doubt Tolkien was aware of Ruskin, but I don’t believe their paths crossed: Ruskin was dead a decade before Tolkien entered Oxford as a student in 1911.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 7, 2021)

The story was related by Frank Harris, who was (or claimed to be) there, and saw Ruskin seeming to grasp something and throw it out the window, though it actually wasn't there. Ruskin was suffering episodes of hallucinations at this time.

The story later led to a 5-year debate between W.B. Yeats and Sturge Moore over the cat, and its implications for the nature of "reality".

Personally, I suspect it may have been Schrodinger's cat.


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## Olorgando (Oct 7, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> I don’t know what would happen to a cat on a computer. I know coffee, soft drinks like lemonade, sodas, and bottled water won’t electrocute you or even give you a jolt from a keyboard, and I’ve ruined a lot of keyboards over the past 40 years using computers. I’ve never seen one spark.


I just remembered that almost everything in our computers runs on low voltage (even *very* low). And my keyboard is cordless (right now I'm using the on-screen keyboard).
My guess is the only place of voltage danger is where the power cord goes in the computer. And then in Germany, we have 240 volts (and 50 Hertz frequency) instead of the 120 volts (and 60 Hz) in the US. Critters who like to chew on such cords would be more at risk.


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## Alcuin (Oct 7, 2021)

Olorgando said:


> I just remembered that almost everything in our computers runs on low voltage (even *very* low). And my keyboard is cordless (right now I'm using the on-screen keyboard).
> My guess is the only place of voltage danger is where the power cord goes in the computer. And then in Germany, we have 240 volts (and 50 Hertz frequency) instead of the 120 volts (and 60 Hz) in the US. Critters who like to chew on such cords would be more at risk.


Funny you should mention that. We had a couple of cats that did that, both big toms. The first was one of the longest cats I’ve ever seen: pure white, blue-eyed, and deaf as a stone. He chewed on electric cords, got shocked, lay still for a few minutes, then got up and wandered off. He did it more than once, and we’re not sure why: he otherwise seemed a very intelligent cat. The second was a very large sandy-colored polydactyl – six claws on three feet, seven on the fourth, and they all had opposable “thumbs”: he picked stuff up with his front paws as if he had little catcher’s mitts. He chewed on an electric cord once, too, but so far as I know, only once.

Power supplies, as you note however, are another matter altogether. 



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Personally, I suspect it may have been Schrodinger's cat.


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## Alcuin (Oct 7, 2021)

Here’s a neat little piece of trivia connecting cats, John Ruskin, and JRR Tolkien. From Wikipedia,
​George Allen & Sons was established in 1871 by George Allen, with the backing of John Ruskin, becoming George Allen & Co. Ltd. in 1911 and then George Allen & Unwin in 1914 as a result of Stanley Unwin’s purchase of a controlling interest. Unwin’s son Rayner S. Unwin ... helped run the company... It became well known as J. R. R. Tolkien’s publisher, some time after publishing the popular children’s fantasy novel _The Hobbit_ in 1937, and its ... sequel _The Lord of the Rings_ ... in 1954–1955.​​I suppose Tolkien should be fond of cats, or at least the one Ruskin threw.



Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> ...Frank Harris ... was (or claimed to be) there, and saw Ruskin seeming to grasp something and throw it out the window, though it actually wasn't there. Ruskin was suffering episodes of hallucinations at this time.
> 
> The story later led to a 5-year debate between W.B. Yeats and Sturge Moore over the cat, and its implications for the nature of "reality".


What was the outcome of their debate, and is there a convenient place to review it? Hallucinations are (almost, but not quite) universally considered false representations of reality. Who took which side? 

Schrödinger posited his cat to point out what he saw as the absurdities implicit in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. (Astronomer Fred Hoyle coined the term “Big Bang” to ridicule Lemaître’s theory of the universe expanding from a primordial singularity.)


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## Olorgando (Oct 8, 2021)

Hoyle must have done some heavy-duty thinking in astrophysics, by the comments of not a few people who understand immensely more about it than I do (though I have devoured anything I could get my hands on and halfway understand). His understanding of the biological sciences, however, seems to have been subatomic.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 8, 2021)

Alcuin said:


> What was the outcome of their debate, and is there a convenient place to review it? Hallucinations are (almost, but not quite) universally considered false representations of reality. Who took which side?


I've read only snippets online. Moore's position was that some things are real, some not; Ruskin's cat was an illusion. Yeats said the cat was "real" to Ruskin, and in fact, the more people who heard the story, the more "real" it became.

The Yeats-Moore Correspondence was published in 1953, and again in 2018, but it's not on line, except as excerpts. I see copies are available for sale for as little as $15.

I first read of it in Frye's _Anatomy_, where he uses it to illustrate the conception of literature as

_a body of hypothetical creations which is not necessarily involved in the worlds of truth and fact, nor necessarily withdrawn from them, but which can enter into any kind of relationship to them, from the most to the least explicit._

He goes on to draw a parallel with the relationship of mathematics to the natural sciences:

_Mathematics, like literature, proceeds hypothetically and by internal consistency, not descriptively and by outward fidelity to nature. When applied to external facts, it is not its truth but its applicability that is being verified. _


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## Annatar (Oct 12, 2021)

Asgemsuponasilverthread said:


> So did Tolkien hate cats?



I have often thought about this question as well. And yes, the points you mentioned suggest that Tolkien was not a cat lover.

But there are also some interesting facts that suggest the opposite:

In one letter he wrote a small poem about himself:

_“J. R. R. Tolkien
had a cat called Grimalkin:
once a familiar of Herr Grimm,
now he spoke the law to him.” _[Letters #309]

In addition, there are a few unpublished letters, and in one Tolkien writes:
_"I am about to acquire, or should I say solicit the association of, a Cat."_
(Source: http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/989-Amazing-Tolkien-proof-copies.php)

These two quotes together with his cat allusions concerning Shelob also show that Tolkien well acquainted with the character of cats. He knew exactly that cats do what they want, and unlike dogs they would never accept a "master".

I find very interesting what has also already been mentioned about Beruthiel.
Tolkien said in an inteview:

_"Well, Berúthiel went back to live in the inland city, and went to the bad (or returned to it she was a Black Númenórean in origin, I guess). She was one of these people, who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about you know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them? *I have a friend like that.* I'm afraid she took to torturing them for amusement, but she kept some and used them: trained them to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them."_
(Source: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Berúthiel)

After all, some people talk about a "friend" when they are actually saying something about themselves that makes them uncomfortable.
However, I would consider Tolkien to be someone who clearly professes his views. With the previous quotes implying that he had (or at least wanted to acquire) a cat, it would also be quite illogical if by "friend" he meant himself.

On the other hand, his best friend was C. S. Lewis ("Narnia"), who apparently had a Siamese cat (see https://mereinkling.net/2017/02/28/c-s-lewis-cats).
And we know from Tolkien that he would include Siamese cats in the fauna of Mordor... (At the same time, however, one should always keep in mind that many things may simply have been meant ironically.)

So it remains mysterious, and maybe Tolkien changed his mind about cats in the course of his life.
I suspect, however, that Tolkien was rather fond of cats, but made use of their darker side in his works.
And let's be honest: Which real cat-hater calls his cats "Miaugion" or "Miaule" in his works? It just sounds too cute. 😹


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 13, 2021)

I don't believe his uses of cats in his fiction demonstrates a hatred of them, any more than the Old Forest and Old Man Willow demonstrates a hatred of trees.


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## Elthir (Oct 13, 2021)

The film came out well after Tolkien had passed, so we'll never know.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 13, 2021)

Film? Are you sure you're replying to the right thread? 🤔


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## Elthir (Oct 13, 2021)




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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 13, 2021)

It's been a "slow brain" day for me. . .


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## Annatar (Oct 13, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> It's been a "slow brain" day for me. . .



My brain is also very slow today (even slower than usual), so I ask for explanation regarding this interjection from the first page of this thread:



Elthir said:


> Tolkien didn't even hate Ohlmarks’ cat.
> 
> 🐾
> 
> 🐾


My online research has so far only revealed that Ohlmarks was probably a rather bad Swedish translator...


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## Alcuin (Oct 13, 2021)

Tolkien and Dr Åke Ohlmarks, the man Allen & Unwin chose to translate _Lord of the Rings_ into Swedish, apparently held one another in contempt bordering on mutual loathing. In _Letter_ 204 to Rayner Unwin, Tolkien wrote
[I received a] letter in Swedish from … Åke Ohlmarks, and a huge list (9 pages …) of names in the _[Lord of the Rings]_ which he … altered. I hope that my inadequate knowledge of Swedish … tends to exaggerate the impression I received. … Dr Ohlmarks is a conceited person, less competent than charming …, though he thinks much better of himself. In the course of his letter he lectures me on the character of the Swedish language and its antipathy to borrowing foreign words (a matter which seems beside the point), a procedure made all the more ridiculous by the language of his letter, more than ⅓ of which consists of “loan-words” from German, French and Latin, _thriller-genre_ being a good specimen of good old pure Swedish.

I find this … puzzling, because the letter and the list seem totally pointless unless my opinion and criticism is invited. But if this is its object, then surely the timing is both unpractical and impolite, presented together with a pistol: “we are going to start the composition now”. Neither is my convenience consulted: the communication comes out of the blue… Conceding the legitimacy or necessity of translation …, the translation does not seem to me to exhibit much skill, and contains a fair number of positive errors. Even if excusable, in view of the difficulty of the material, I think this regrettable, & they could have been avoided by earlier consultation. It seems to me fairly evident that Dr [Ohlmarks] has stumbled along dealing with things as he came to them, without much care for the future or co-ordination, and that he has not read the Appendices at all, in which he would have found many answers. ....

I do hope that it can be arranged, if and when any further translations are negotiated, _that I should be consulted at an early stage_…​No mention of Ohlmarks’ cat, though, as far as I can tell.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 13, 2021)

I suspect our resident cat of possessing inside information.


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## Alcuin (Oct 13, 2021)

You don’t have any neighbors named Berúthiel, do you? Is it black or white, by any chance?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 13, 2021)

By "our", I mean TTF's. 😁


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## Alcuin (Oct 13, 2021)

Omigosh!

*RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!*


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 13, 2021)

No worries.

He's a Hepcat.


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## Annatar (Oct 13, 2021)

Ohlmarks has apparently turned Sauron's cat's eye into a tiger's eye. 🐈


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## Elthir (Oct 14, 2021)

Many thanks to artist Gianluca Garofalo for my wonderful portrait.

This version "in progress" . . .


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 14, 2021)

And thanks to whatever hack artist did mine.


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## Olorgando (Oct 14, 2021)

Erm ... whom should I thank? Sir Ian McKellen? The makeup artist? The photographer? ... 🤔


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## Annatar (Oct 14, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> And thanks to whatever hack artist did mine.


At least that's the best combination of user name, title and avatar I've ever seen in a Tolkien forum. 😹 👍


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## Elthir (Oct 15, 2021)

By the way, you might run across a similar portrait by Gianluca of a character called John Blacksad.

I happen to look exactly like J. B. . . . just so there's no confusion.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 15, 2021)

I always knew you were a Kool Kat.


If that's Mrs, Elthir, you're a lucky man, er, cat! 😊


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## Elthir (Oct 15, 2021)

Very lucky! No doubt.

🐾


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 18, 2021)

Admittedly, some cats are worse than others.


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## Elthir (Oct 20, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> If that's Mrs, Elthir, you're a lucky man, er, cat! 😊



As I say, I am lucky. And I hope she feels the same too . . . 
but sometimes I'm not wholly sure if she's listening to me.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 20, 2021)

There's a book on the subject.


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## Olorgando (Oct 21, 2021)

Elthir said:


> As I say, I am lucky. And I hope she feels the same too . . .
> but sometimes I'm not wholly sure if she's listening to me.


Oh, I can second that!
I've certainly heard "what did you say?" often enough. We may still be better at overhearing on average, but our better halves are quite "competent", too. 😏


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## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 24, 2021)




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## Peter86 (Feb 19, 2022)

Annatar said:


> My online research has so far only revealed that Ohlmarks was probably a rather bad Swedish translator...


I am from Sweden, so I ended up reading Ohlmarks' translations when I was introduced to Tolkien's books.
I didn't really think of all the mistakes that he had made in those versions, since I had nothing to compare them to, but then in around 2002 or so I decided to give the original English versions a try, and that was like night and day.

I can accept that he made mistakes such as describing Frodo's journey from The Shire as "west" instead of "east", and that he turned "the Spring of Frodo's 50th year" into "the day in Spring that Frodo turned 50" - it is easy to make those mistakes.
However, he also often makes stupid and unwanted changes such as replacing the mark "DALE" with a random word like "bågdrönare", which is complete nonsense, and translates into something like "arc-drones" (yeah, it is just as ridiculous as it sounds).
Maybe he wanted to describe some arc-like pattern for the fireworks or something, but it is just silly.
I also remember that he left out large parts of a poem, and implied something along the lines that it was "irrelevant".
Sure, I can see that some people don't care that much about the poems, but they often add a bit of lore to the world in these books, and it seems disrespectful to leave parts of it out like that.

He also changes the tone in a lot of places - Aragorn's line "you need not starve until winter comes" sounds more like "you will not have to starve until winter comes, oh, no!", and Sam's startled line "oh alright, mr. Frodo" had become "yeah-yeah, mr. Frodo!", which was literally described as Sam sounding _irritated_.

I haven't touched those versions since I discovered the English versions;
not even the translations for "The Hobbit" or "The Silmarillion", even though those translations were made by other people.
It just feels better in general to read the English versions, and I enjoy all these books better when I read them that way.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 19, 2022)

At least the covers of the new editions got some love here. 😄
Post in thread 'Tolkien Book Covers' https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/tolkien-book-covers.28961/post-535471


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## Peter86 (Feb 19, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> At least the covers of the new editions got some love here. 😄
> Post in thread 'Tolkien Book Covers' https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/tolkien-book-covers.28961/post-535471


The new translations were pretty good, yes (I gave them a try when they were released almost 2 decades ago), and those drawings are pretty cool.

The original translation was called "Sagan Om Ringen", which means "The Tale Of The Ring", which I guess is a pretty decent name.
Those new versions have more direct translations, where "Ringarnas Herre" means "The Rings' Lord" (or just "Lord Of The Rings", obviously).


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 19, 2022)

If you happen to have any interesting cover pics of other Swedish editions, they'd be welcome on the Book Covers thread. 😊


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 19, 2022)

Asgemsuponasilverthread said:


> Hey. I own 2 little kittens, and all dogs i have ever owned were either crazy, disobeyed me, or both, so you could say i prefer cats.
> 
> So i am kinda disturbed by how my favourite writer clearly hates them.
> 
> ...


As Tolkien was a devout Catholic, I am sure he had a good view on Animals and would have been familiar with St. Francis' oft repeated quote: "Those who are bad to animals (I am paraphrasing) are not to be trusted."

Just my thoughts.


CL


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 19, 2022)

And the most obvious model for Radagast the Brown.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 19, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> And the most obvious model for Radagast the Brown.


Exactly!

CL


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