# Men & Elves dwelling together.



## Confusticated (May 11, 2004)

It was discovered in the first age that it was for Men and Elves to live apart. Why do you this was? Were there already signs that Men envied immortality?.What observations might have been made?


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## Beleg (May 11, 2004)

I think you hit the nail right on the head with your envy proposal.


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## Confusticated (May 11, 2004)

Hi Beleg, I'm surprised to see you posting. It has been a while.

Couldn't it have been something as innocent as the cultures and ways of life of the two people could never be the same given the different natures of the people, and because of this they could never truly merge in one culture and sets of customs but only as it was "mingle".


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## Beleg (May 11, 2004)

Hey Nom, nice threads you have started. 



> Couldn't it have been something as innocent as the cultures and ways of life of the two people could never be the same given the different natures of the people, and because of this they could never truly merge in one culture and sets of customs but only as it was "mingle".






What was the difference between elves and men.

Men were mortal, finite and frail, while elves were supposedly immortal, strong wise and more capable. These were qualities most men didn't inherently possess.

Such a difference would eventually lead to envy since on the surface the immortality of Elves would seem like a great gift to men and withstanding or nonwithstanding the tale of Adanel, corruption had allready touched men. Men would envy the elves, detest them and come into open conflict with them, yearning to become like them, not understanding the nature of the gift/curse of immortality. 

And basically these differences would stop them from mingling, differences could be breached but envy couldn't be killed so better estrange the two races and keep the elvish ancestory an enigma, a myth then let the rampant hate run its course.


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## Confusticated (May 15, 2004)

Two points:

1) While there can be no question about the tendancy Men could have to become envious of the Elves' immortality (Numenore), did this really happen with the Edain during WotJ? And remember, Morgoth tried to turn Edain against Eldar and had almost no success. Had they been envious, surely we would see signs of it? Surely the great friendship between the races would have been wounded and this would have effects we hear about? 

But does the fact that most the faithful were in origin of the people of Beor, perhaps have something to do with the way the people of Hador had lived in close with the elves in Hithlum? In other words, was their maybe a seed planted among the men of Dor-lomin in the days of the WotJ that didn't sprout until many generations later?


2) I do not think cultural aspects that are caused by or dependant upon (specific to) immortality vs short life spans could be easily over-come. While less _immediately_ hazardous than envy, they could lead to trouble... especially if it was the Men living too much like Elves, this may be a seed for trouble, resltessness among men maybe would lead to it.


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