# Sauron's physical form in the Third Age



## CWOBrien (Feb 18, 2019)

The films obviously portray Sauron as confined to the form of lidless eye. But did Tolkien intend for this to be just a metaphor for his near-omniscience? 

Did Sauron in fact have a body during the third age? And if so, why didn't he come forth to lead the war effort himself? 

I like to imagine, if he was weakened by the loss of the ring, he might have conducted himself like the Almighty in the (admittedly awful) film 10,000 BC: this frail ruler, waited on hand and foot by his servants, exercising power from behind the scenes: 






Or maybe this would be more analogous to the Black Numenoreans ruling over the Haradrim.

What do you think?


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## Starbrow (Feb 18, 2019)

Sauron had a physical body. Gollum says, ""Yes, He has only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough," said Gollum shuddering.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 18, 2019)

There was a great thread in the Hall of Fire forum on TTF from a few years ago, Sauron Was Not A Lighthouse. It references Tolkien's letters with information of what form Sauron took in the Third Age.


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## Miguel (Feb 18, 2019)

*Búrzishi Bringer of Truth, God-King in the East and South.*
*





*


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Feb 18, 2019)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> There was a great thread in the Hall of Fire forum on TTF from a few years ago,


Here’s a recent one:

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/index.php?threads/and-here-is-the-ultimate-question.23791/

EDIT: And here's the one Erestor referred to (he piqued my curiosity):

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/index.php?threads/sauron-was-not-a-lighthouse.20352/

As usual, I had to Google it. What _is _it with the search function here?!


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## CirdanLinweilin (Feb 18, 2019)

Starbrow said:


> Sauron had a physical body. Gollum says, ""Yes, He has only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough," said Gollum shuddering.


I am just now realizing.

Frodo of the Nine Fingers
Sauron has NINE fingers.




How am I **just* *now realizing this?

The One Ring does and doesn't like fingers apparently.


CL


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## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 19, 2019)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Here’s a recent one:
> 
> http://www.thetolkienforum.com/index.php?threads/and-here-is-the-ultimate-question.23791/
> 
> ...



And another one, resurrected from the bowels of TTF by yours truly


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## Valandil (Feb 20, 2019)

CirdanLinweilin said:


> I am just now realizing.
> Frodo of the Nine Fingers
> Sauron has NINE fingers.
> 
> ...


OR - the Ring likes fingers so much, it wants to bring them along.


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## grendel (Jul 12, 2019)

I have always been fascinated by the passages where Pippin looked into the palantir, because it is the one time (in LOTR) that someone actually interacts with Sauron. I feel sure that if Pippin had seen a great eye, he would have said so, but he did not. He DID say "Then _he_ came. He did not speak so that I could hear words. He just looked, and I understood." My impression anyway, is that he saw a face, a person.
And I am endlessly amused by the idea of the Lord Sauron the Great, refugee from the War of Wrath, survivor of the wreck of Numenor, is peering into this stone and saying, somewhat confused, "Who ARE you?"


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## Miguel (Jul 12, 2019)

grendel said:


> And I am endlessly amused by the idea of the Lord Sauron the Great, refugee from the War of Wrath, survivor of the wreck of Numenor, is peering into this stone and saying, somewhat confused, "Who ARE you?"



Maybe Pippin was the last person he expected to see, or wanted to know his name just like Baggins.


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## Þráinn Þórhallsson (Jul 13, 2019)

I did not particularly care for the sequels to the first live action Hobbit film but actually giving Sauron a physical form with a loss of fingers like in the LOTR books was a great improvement over the LOTR trilogy.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Aug 7, 2019)

I'd point out that Pippin wasn't the only one -- Aragorn did too.


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## grendel (Aug 9, 2019)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I'd point out that Pippin wasn't the only one -- Aragorn did too.


Ahhhh you're right, SES... Aragorn later used it also. I forgot that, good catch!


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## Ron Simpson (Aug 23, 2019)

Yes Aragorn saw him as well, and who knows what he saw: face or something else...
It gets even more strange, for who knows what Sauron saw when he interacted with Aragorn in the Palantir?
Remember Aragorn's cryptic comment about showing himself to Sauron in 'other guise than what you see here' (or something like that)
-does anyone know what Aragorn meant by that ? (I am assuming he didn't moon the Dark Lord, hehe )


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## Olorgando (Aug 23, 2019)

Ron Simpson said:


> Yes Aragorn saw him as well, and who knows what he saw: face or something else...
> It gets even more strange, for who knows what Sauron saw when he interacted with Aragorn in the Palantir?
> Remember Aragorn's cryptic comment about showing himself to Sauron in 'other guise than what you see here' (or something like that)
> -does anyone know what Aragorn meant by that ? (I am assuming he didn't moon the Dark Lord, hehe )


I think in one part PJ (to my memory) may have hit a rare nail on the head: he had Viggo show Sauron Andúril, the re-forged Narsil - giving Sauron a severe attack of phantom pain about the missing ring finger. And for the book, perhaps Aragorn had enough resemblance to Isildur (the direct cause of Sauron's phantom pain) to have caused Sauron to feel the need a change of (lower) underwear (there's a thread about hypothetical metabolism of Ainur embodied in Arda somewhere else in TTF).
THAT is another scene that PJ totally wrecked and turned on its head by then having Sauron project some scary vision of Arwen back at Aragorn that made Viggo (as I have to call him here) drop the Palantir. I remain adamant about *who* needed the change of underwear, no matter if caused by sword or face! (this is Gandalf the WHITE vs. wimpy Witch-king territory from the film to me!).


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