# pronounciation



## BelDain (Dec 31, 2001)

So I read in appendix E of LotR that 'F' represents the English 'f' sound except at the end of words where it represents the sound denoted by the English letter 'v'. Examples of Nindalf and Fladrif are given.

This rule, if I'm reading the preceding text correctly applies to the pronounciation of the translations of both Westron and Quenya given throughout the Lord of the Rings and its appendices.

Does this mean Gandalf should indeed be pronounced 'gandal*v*'?

I always here people say, "Gandal*f*," and also initially thought of it that way myself.

I suppose this has been touched on before and I'm just very late to the party?


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## Aerin (Dec 31, 2001)

I have heard Gandalf's name pronounced many ways. In the movie even, they pronounce it different ways.
I have been under the impression that it is pronounced "Gandaf". 
Others pronounce it with a 'l', but I'm not sure if I'm correct in my pronunciation.


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## Greymantle (Dec 31, 2001)

I'm 99.9% sure that the correct pronunciation is "Gandalv." I don't usually say this myself, and nobody I know does either, but it's still correct. Kinda like "Mordor;" the "r"s are rolled, but people rarely speak that way. In my recordings of Tolkien, he does both... but it's hard to tell with "Gandalf," the recording is nearly fifty years old.
What's with the name "Gandalf" anyways? I'm fairly sure it's Sindarin, but what does it mean? And since this is the name by which he is known to "Northern Men," why is it that the name is Elvish?


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## Talierin (Jan 1, 2002)

It means "Staff-elf". Tolkien actually found the name in that list of names in the Finnish Kaleva(sp?). The other names ended up as dwarves. As for the rest, when in doubt, ask Cian...


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## Lantarion (Jan 1, 2002)

I've heard that it might mean "old-elf": Gand (old) + Alf (elf). But I dunno.. It isn't Sindarin, I'm pretty sure of that.
I don't recall any 'Gandalf' in the *Kalevala*.. Some names are Väinämöinen, Ilmarinen, Iku-Turso, Ilmatar, etc. I'm sure Cian knows...


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## Talierin (Jan 1, 2002)

Okay, now I think about it, it wasn't Finnish. Argh! I can't remember the name of the thing. I know it's from up north there.


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## Lantarion (Jan 1, 2002)

I don't think he copied the name from anywhere. But as I said I think the words Gand and Alf are in some way connected to his name, and I think they might be Norse, or Old Norse.


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## Talierin (Jan 1, 2002)

Okay, I found it! here: http://asatru.org/voluspa.html

It's called the Voluspa.


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## Lantarion (Jan 1, 2002)

Wow, all those names from the Hobbit and the LotR! What a copycat!


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## Greymantle (Jan 1, 2002)

Durin, Dvalin, Bombur, Nori, Gandalf, Thorin, Thror and Thrain
Fili, Kili, Fundin
Dori, Ori

"Now the son of Hlodyn and Odhinn comes
To fight with Fenris; fiercest of warriors
He mauls in his rage all Middle-Earth;"

"At lda's Field the Aesir meet:
They remember the worm of Middle-Earth,
Ponder again the great twilight
And the ancient runes of the high god"

"Fairer than sunlight, I see a hall
A hall thatched with gold in Gimle:
Kind Lords shall live there in delight for ever."

Whoa!!!


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## BelDain (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Greymantle _
> *I'm 99.9% sure that the correct pronunciation is "Gandalv." I don't usually say this myself, and nobody I know does either, but it's still correct. Kinda like "Mordor;" the "r"s are rolled, but people rarely speak that way. In my recordings of Tolkien, he does both... but it's hard to tell with "Gandalf," the recording is nearly fifty years old.
> What's with the name "Gandalf" anyways? I'm fairly sure it's Sindarin, but what does it mean? And since this is the name by which he is known to "Northern Men," why is it that the name is Elvish? *



You're right, it shouldn't be of Eldarin because the Elves' name for Olorin became Mithrandir. So the name, Gandalf, what the Northern Men called him, as you said, should be of Westron.

Basically I was just wondering if anyone else adhered to this pronounciation. I found it interesting that I had been pronouncing the name "wrong" all this time.


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## Cian (Jan 2, 2002)

Right, _Gandalf_ is not Elvish, it's a Norse _Völuspá_ lift, as has been said. Long gloss: "Elvish wight with a (magic) staff", or similar "Wand-elf", "Staff-elf" as mentioned.

Ok so, Appendix E tells us other stuff about pronunciation (besides that which appears in the consonantal list & etc), and I had it all typed in here and wrangled about, but really couldn't (again) come up with a good conclusion, so I deleted the kerfuffle. Do we give up and go have a nice meal instead? or listen to the Movie guys maybe? or try and hear it better on Tolkien's tape? Yes I've tried  

So my actual answer regarding "Gandalf", voiced or unvoiced v/f, is, I don't know! yet. Garn.

From UT:



> "_Gandalf_ is a substitution in the English narrative on the same lines as the treatment of Hobbit and Dwarf-names. (my edit: regarding Norse stuff and already given gloss "Elvish wight with ...") ... Gandalf was not an Elf, but would be by Men associated with them, since his alliance and friendship with Elves was well-known. Since the name is attributed to 'the North' in general, _Gandalf_ must be supposed to represent a Westron name, but one made up of elements not derived from Elvish tongues."


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## KevinLandwaster (Jan 5, 2002)

My take on the pronunciation is that it is in fact "Gandalf" with a "f" sound at the end like the "f" sounds in pheasant, Frodo, fanstastic, etc.

"Gandalf" is not an Elvish word, therefore it would have different rules of pronunciation. If it *were* and Elvish word then yes it would be "Gandalv", but since it's not, it's "Gandalf" like 99.99% of everyone pronounces it anyway.


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