# Inanimate Objects Talking



## Sulimo (May 11, 2014)

I just finished re-reading both The Silmarillion and The Hobbit, and one thing that stood out to me this time through that I never thought about before was that in both of these books an inanimate object talks. However, I can not think of another occurrence of this in Tolkien's work. The other interesting note is that neither of these occurrences are in any way related. The first in the Silmarillion is when Turin is about to kill himself, he speaks to Gurthang, and the sword responds describing how it will gladly drink his blood. The second in the Hobbit happened when Bilbo tried stealing the troll's purse, and it called out in alarm. 

I do not have anything of significance to say about this. I just found it interesting, and I was wondering if other members had noticed or thought about this at all.


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## r.j.c. (Jun 25, 2014)

Ha that is interesting. I also always found it interesting that we read/hear the fox in the shires thoughts about the hobbits sleeping outdoors strange little things.


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## Alcuin (Jun 27, 2014)

In _Morgoth s Ring_, “Laws And Customs Among The Eldar”, “Of Re-Birth And Other Dooms Of Those That Go To Mandos” (page 224 in the Houghton (American) hardcover edition), there is a passage often cited in other contexts,


> It is … a foolish and perilous thing, besides being a wrong deed forbidden justly by the appointed Rulers of Arda, if the Living seek to commune with the Unbodied, though the houseless may desire it, especially the most unworthy among them. For the Unbodied, wandering in the world, are those who at the least have refused the door of life and remain in regret and self-pity. Some are filled with bitterness, grievance, and envy. Some were enslaved by the Dark Lord and do his work still, though he himself is gone. They will not speak truth or wisdom. To call on them is folly. To attempt to master them and to make them servants of one s own will is wickedness. Such practices are of Morgoth; and the necromancers are of the host of Sauron his servant.


 The “Unbodied” in this passage specifically refers to Elves who have refused the summons to Mandos. “[E]ven of the Eldar some who had become corrupted refused the summons [of Mandos], and then had little power to resist the counter-summons of Morgoth.” (_Op. cit._) Eöl was called the “Dark Elf”. Eöl “gave Anglachel to Thingol as fee, which he begrudged, for leave to dwell in Nan Elmoth”. (_Silmarillion_, “Of Turin Turambar”). Melian the Maia, wife of Thingol, warned Beleg against the sword:


> [A]s Thingol turned the hilt of Anglachel towards Beleg, Melian looked at the blade; and she said: “There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves; neither will it abide with you long.”


 Inanimate objects do not convey their own emotions. “There is malice in this sword,” might reflect nothing other than the malice of Eöl, who proved himself chock full of malice and ill-will, doubled with his resentment of being’s Thingol’s unwilling subject. In the same light, “It will not love the hand it serves,” might be nothing other than poetic license, albeit on the part of one of the Ainur. To the point (pardon the pun): had Eöl imprisoned some Unbodied Elf in the sword Anglachel? That would explain several things: 

Eöl’s dark disposition that gave him his sobriquet, revealed in Gondolin to be evil. 
The power that apparently resided in the swords Anglachel and its mate, Anguirel, which Eöl’s son Maeglin took. 
The ability of the sword to answer Turin as if sentient: a malign but intelligent creature.


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## Sulimo (Jul 16, 2015)

Alcuin, I just saw your response to this from about a year ago. I find it thought provoking. I wanted to ask what your take on Caradhras was. What force powered that will of malice?


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## Alcuin (Jul 18, 2015)

Tolkien certainly makes it sound as if the mountain has some kind of personality. It’s hard to tell. The characters argue about it: Boromir blames the bad weather in the Redhorn Pass on Sauron; Gandalf agrees with Boromir. Later Boromir changes his mind:


> Let those call it the wind who will; there are fell voices on the air; and these stones are aimed at us.


to which Aragorn replies,


> I do call it the wind. But that does not make what you say untrue. There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world that have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own.



Gimli argues repeatedly and vociferously that Caradhras “the Cruel” has “ill will”, hates Dwarves and Men and Elves, and acts on its own to impede their passage. 

My sense is that Sauron caused the bad weather in the Pass: Boromir mentioned that this was the tradition among the wise and learned in Gondor regarding the Mountains of Shadow, and Gandalf immediately concurred. I think Gandalf’s hunch should be taken seriously. As for the “fell voices on the air” that Boromir noted, I suspect they could be associated with Sauron, too: he was a master of evil illusions. (Cf. the faces in the Dead Marshes.) As for the “rock aimed” at the Company of the Ring, I am uncertain whether Aragorn was speaking his mind or trying to raise their spirits. 

But Caradhras… 

I am inclined to believe Gimli’s repeated recitation of Dwarven tradition that “Caradhras the Cruel” posed an unusual hazard above ground and possibly below was well-founded. For one thing, he is extremely certain of it and mentions it at every opportunity, despite the fact that Durin’s Folk had been forced to abandon Khazad-dûm over 1000 years before. 1000 years was only four complete Dwarven lifespans, but between eight and twelve generations. That makes it similar to our remembering oral and written tradition from 200–300 years ago, and of course we do, though not always with complete fidelity, assuming that the facts were ever accurately ascertained in the first place. 

If Caradhras was indeed “the Cruel”, then why and how so? It was a mountain, and mountains lack intelligence of their own. In Tolkien’s world, however, places and objects are imprinted by sentient beings around them: Gandalf said Hollin remained wholesome 4600 years after the Noldor of Eregion was slaughtered or driven out. The Mountains of Shadow and Mirkwood were filled with Sauron’s darkness. Old Man Willow exercised control over the trees of the Old Forest. The Barrow-wights apparently influenced the weather in the Barrow-downs, even though Bombadil said he could not. 

Durin’s Bane was underneath Caradhras for tens of centuries. I don’t think it was trapped there: I think it was hiding. Sauron undoubtedly discovered there was a Balrog in Moria: his Orcs went back and forth between Dol Guldur and Moria. (Dol Guldur was the source of Moria’s Orcs, in fact; the Balrog not only tolerated them, it dominated and terrified them in the ruined city.) Celeborn was concerned a Balrog might assault Lórien, suggesting that was precisely what Sauron and the Balrog planned. (Imagine Smaug and the Balrog assaulting Lórien together, probably the original plan.) 

The Balrog’s actions are consistent with someone _hiding_. It hid from the Host of Valinor after the War of Wrath. Maybe it “went to sleep”, maybe it didn’t; but I don’t think it was trapped. When the Dwarves broke into its hiding place, it slaughtered them and drove them out. I don’t know what information Sauron might have passed along later, but at the time, it probably had no idea Sauron was still around, and less that the Valar had sent other Maiar to Middle-earth as emissaries as Istari. Driving out the Dwarves – and any interlopers other than the useful Orcs – kept its true nature hidden: For all Durin’s Bane knew, if anyone discovered there was _a Balrog_ on the loose, Eönwë might still come looking for it, and that was why it was hiding in the first place. 

So my inclination is to think that Caradhras’ reputation for cruelty is due to some sort of _goetia_ (evil magic) or necromancy (more evil magic, the specialty of Sauron) of the Balrog’s. Think of it in terms of booby traps or minefields laid out to keep people away. If you don’t understand the nature of the trap, it seems like magic, and in Tolkien’s world, _it is_. 

Now that doesn’t mean Durin’s Bane went around setting individual traps, though perhaps it did, especially deep under the mountain. (In which case Dwarves looking for mithril were finding mines of various definitions; Gimli’s stories might indicate that’s so.) But given the nature of magic in Tolkien’s world, it might be that the Balrog was able to render the mountain generally “unfriendly”, and specifically dangerous in certain situations: someone too close to his hiding places, or to his entrances and exits, or travelling along a path he used, and so forth. For the ancient Dwarves, that must have made the place particularly hazardous even before they found the thing. All of that, in my opinion, points to the Balrog. 

But as for the foul weather, I think that was Sauron. Boromir thought so; Gandalf agreed; Elrond mentioned that the Shadow (Sauron’s influence) had crept to the Misty Mountains, making it hard for him to determine what was going on; and Galadriel indicated that communication with Rivendell had recently become more difficult. All of those things point to Sauron.


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## Sulimo (Sep 13, 2015)

Once more sorry for the late retort. I do not get on as often as I should, but Alcuin how does this explain the reference that Caradrhas not a booby trap had defeated them. To me that always conveyed a sense of senescence of the mountain. However, this also touches upon an aspect of the book I never thought about. Do you think that Sauron actually thought Gandalf fell in Moria, or like Galadrial was highly skeptical such things actually transpired as they came across.


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## Thorin (Dec 30, 2015)

Alcuin said:


> If Caradhras was indeed “the Cruel”, then why and how so? It was a mountain, and mountains lack intelligence of their own. In Tolkien’s world, however, places and objects are imprinted by sentient beings around them: Gandalf said Hollin remained wholesome 4600 years after the Noldor of Eregion was slaughtered or driven out. The Mountains of Shadow and Mirkwood were filled with Sauron’s darkness. Old Man Willow exercised control over the trees of the Old Forest. The Barrow-wights apparently influenced the weather in the Barrow-downs, even though Bombadil said he could not.



That is possible, but I think it was more that overall, the very nature of the mountain brought 'cruelty' for those attempting to cross it. Just like a deadly hairpin curve on a mountainside that has claimed many victims just from the way it is. One could almost think of Mt.Everest as well or a high mountain pass in the winter time (like the Coquihalla highway in British Columbia). It's height, and geographical layout in terms of it's tendency to experience more storms in frequency and ferocity, these things might make Caradhras naturally 'cruel' compared to other mountains.


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## Ingolmin (Nov 29, 2016)

I answer to the first question first.
Anglachel, later Gurthang is described as being forged from the "iron that fell from heaven as a flaming star" or a meteorite. According to Melian, Eöl's dark malice is left in the sword.
"_There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves, neither will it abide with you long._"
The sword would definitely not have spoken but its malice was revealed.


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## Ingolmin (Nov 29, 2016)

Caradhras would have been an ancient tall mountain since the First Age. Also there are chances that Balrog had his power in that mountain as it was said that the mountain hated the elves, men and dwarves. The Balrogs hated these 3 races, especially elves and men who had vanquished them in many wars.
Also I agree with Sir Thorin that it would simply have a great height and unpredictable weather which really made it very cruel.


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## Ingolmin (Nov 29, 2016)

Sauron would have thought about it if he would have got news that Gandalf had fell in Moria as the Balrog could have become one of hiss plans. Also, he knew the Wizard well, who was one of his greatest foes. But still he knew that Gandalf would be able to do nothing if he once got the One Ring.
The fall of Gandalf would have absolutely been good news for him.


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