# Orcs and sunlight



## GuardianRanger (Jan 29, 2003)

Do you suppose this passage hints at why orcs are not out duing the daylight?

Melkor is hiding underground in Angband. The Sun and the Moon have been created. The Silmarillion has this passage:


> ...and he himself became ever more bound to to the earth, unwilling to issue from his dark strongholds. With shadows, he hid himself and his servants from Arien, the glance of whose eyes they could not long endure; and the lands near his dwelling were shrouded in fumes and great clouds.



To me, this speaks to why the orcs don't like sunlight.


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## Glomund (Jan 29, 2003)

I think treebeards talk with Merry & Pippin (in TTT) along with your quote helps explain why.
He says


> It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness (his capitals) that they cannot abide the sun; but Sarumans orcs endure it, even if they hate it


Since the orcs of old had been made before the sun, they feared it, but since Saruman had either corrupted men or crossed men and orcs, they did not have that weakness, since at least 1/2 of their makeup came from creatures (men) that came into being after the sun. I think your quote shows how Melkor tried to cover his creatures from the sun, but not why they needed that protection.


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## Nenya Evenstar (Jan 30, 2003)

> Do you suppose this passage hints at why orcs are not out duing the daylight?


Forgive me for being rather un-philosophical, but I feel that the answer to the Orc's reason for hating the Sun is simply that the Sun usually represents good (or the day) and the dark night usually represents the bad. Throughout any fantasy that is read you will see the same concept outlined again and again. Day = good, night = bad. Usually the legions of the evil side will be more comfortable working at night because the night is associated with their deeds and their hearts. 


> But Morgoth hated the new lights, and was for a while confounded by this unlooked-for stroke of the Valar. Then he assailed Tilion, sending spirits of shadow against him, and there was strife in Ilmen beneath the paths of the stars; but Tilion was victorious. And Arien Morgoth feared with a great fear, but dared not come nigh her, having indeed no longer the power; for as he grew in malice, and sent forth from himself the evil that he conceived in lies and creatures of wickedness, his might passed into them and was dispersed, and he himself became ever more bound to the earth, unwilling to issue from his dark strongholds. With shadows he hid himself and his servants from Arien, the glance of whose eyes they could not endure; and the lands near his dwelling were shrouded in fumes and great clouds.


However, it must be remembered that there was a difference between the darkness of night and the darkness of Melkor. The darkness of night was graced with the stars of Elbereth and was beautiful. Melkor used it for his own purposes but was ultimately a greater and deeper darkness in himself.

So I would say that the orcs cannot stand the sunlight because they were bred in the darkness of Melkor and Arien was a direct contradiction to that darkness. The two did not go together. Melkor hid himself and his minions from the light of the Sun and forever hated it because it could pierce through even his darkest schemes. I would say that the orcs could not abide the sun because it was in direct contradiction with their own darkness. Some of Melkor's servants could handle the light of the sun, but they all more or less hated it for the light that it gave. The orcs were probably just not strong enough to counter its piercing light which attacked even their hearts.

Forgive me for the lack of technicalities.


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## Gil-Galad (Jan 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar _
> *Forgive me for being rather un-philosophical, but I feel that the answer to the Orc's reason for hating the Sun is simply that the Sun usually represents good (or the day) and the dark night usually represents the bad. Throughout any fantasy that is read you will see the same concept outlined again and again. Day = good, night = bad. Usually the legions of the evil side will be more comfortable working at night because the night is associated with their deeds and their hearts.
> *


I agree with these words.Tolkien mixes up different mythologies in his works.In most mythologies day=good,night=bad,so he uses it without any need of explaining why it is so.Just remember that in LOTR Saruman and Suaron's armies attack and it gets darker and when they are defeated the sun again shows its lights.


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## Miguel (Aug 28, 2018)

If it hurts the master, it'll hurt the vassals.


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