# Elves, magic, and "powers"



## Sons of the Woodland King (Nov 3, 2022)

I always try to search for existing topics before starting a new one (hopefully I'm searching correctly), but on the subject of "Elves, magic, and powers", I could only find a rather angry rant about how we should not "overcomplicate" magic in Middle-earth. At the risk of reigniting ire, I will ask my questions anyway because I am genuinely curious.

What I'm wondering about regarding this subject:

Magic is a major theme/aspect in most fantasy works, so usually writers take great care to construct "systems of magic" or rules that they build their lore on. Did Tolkien not do this, given his explanations of magic are rather vague in his works? How is magic defined in Middle-earth, if at all?
Do Elven characters have specific magical abilities or powers that are unique or special to them? Or do Elves just generally have the capability to perform magical/supernatural feats? For example, can all Elves heal? Have foresight? Form special bonds with nature?
Is Elven "power" dictated by degree of contact an Elf has had with the Trees, the Valar, or time spend in Valinor? Is it a bloodline thing that is inherited?
What "powers" or special Elven abilities are actually mentioned in the books, if anyone cares to try to enumerate them?
I welcome any other thoughts or points of analysis regarding Elven magic and powers that anyone might have!

Note: I specify ELVEN magic, separating them from the Maia, because it seems generally accepted that the Maia have a vast array of powers with not nearly as much limitations.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 3, 2022)

A preliminary question: do you have the _Letters_?


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## Sons of the Woodland King (Nov 3, 2022)

Oh dear. I'm afraid I don't even know what that is.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 3, 2022)

This:

First published in 1981. He goes into some detail on the meaning and nature of "magic" in his world. 

I strongly recommend it, and not just for that.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 3, 2022)

"I have not used 'magic' consistently. . ."
Letter 131

Actually, I believe there's more in HoME. And it _has _been discussed here, though I don't have time for a search at the moment. I'll try to look later.

In the meantime, you'll find more quotes from him here:








Magic


"I am afraid I have been far too casual about 'magic' and especially the use of the word; though Galadriel and others show by the criticism of the 'mortal' use of...




tolkiengateway.net


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## Eljorahir (Nov 3, 2022)

Sons of the Woodland King said:


> How is magic defined in Middle-earth, if at all?


I have not read the letters of Tolkien. So, my comments are based only on my impressions from reading LOTR. These are just impressions, and certainly an incomplete answer to your question.

The chapters while the Fellowship is in Lothlorien use the word magic at least a couple of times:

Galadriel is asking Sam if he wants to look in The Mirror:
_'And you?' she said, turning to Sam. 'For this is what your folk would call *magic*, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean...'_

Departing from Lothlorien, the Fellowship receive their new cloaks:
_'Are these *magic* cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
'I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves._

So, we have two instances where elves indicate that what seems like "magic" to others is not magic to them. My impression is that elves have a fundamentally different relationship with the world and also a deeper understanding of the world. And, their "magic" follows from this.

An analogy:
In the citations above, Sam and Pippin see Elf Magic in the mirror and the cloaks.
An ancient human sees magic in the flashlight of the time traveler he's encountered.

The mirror and the cloaks are not really magic in the same way the flashlight is not really magic.

(Now, I await citations from the Tolkien letters revealing how far off I am from his intentions.  )


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 3, 2022)

The derivation of "Inherent Magic" in Tolkien's works, at odds with "Mechanicalmagic&


The derivation of "Inherent Magic" in Tolkien's works, at odds with Mechanical magic The oxford english dictionary defines magic as, roughly, the pretended art of influencing the course of events or producing marvellous physical phenomena by means of invoking spiritual beings or bringing into...




www.thetolkienforum.com




And here's a more recent one that touches on the subject:








Why didn't the Ring try and get to Gollum sooner in Mordor?


The Ring is treacherous to anybody (save Sauron) that wears it or gets it: 1.) It corrupted Isildur so that he spared it. It then moved off his finger so that he'd be spotted by orcs. (Luckily for Middle Earth, the Ring appears to have fallen into the water, rather than stay in his...




www.thetolkienforum.com


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Nov 3, 2022)

Eljorahir said:


> The mirror and the cloaks are not really magic in the same way the flashlight is not really magic.


Not in the "same way", if by that you mean _technological_; Tolkien was definite that the "magic" mortals see was, for the Elves, "art" -- not technology.

It's a difficult subject, and I'd also recommend "On Fairy Stories", where he goes into it. Perhaps an analogy is a piece of art -- say a painting you seem to get lost in; you might consider that a "magical" experience.

As a matter of fact, millions of people have had the experience-- while reading Tolkien. 😃


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## Eljorahir (Nov 3, 2022)

From the letter SES provided in the first thread and his comments in the second, I'm finding this sentence to be the most useful. I'm still pondering but thought it might be helpful to paste it into this thread:

Tolkien:
_"Anyway, a difference in the use of 'magic' in this story is that it is not to be come by by 'lore' or spells; but is in an inherent power not possessed or attainable by Men as such."_


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## ZehnWaters (Nov 3, 2022)

The Elves (and Ainur to magnitudes much larger) seem to be able to will the world to conform to their desires.

Is it genetic? Partially.
Does it matter whether they've had contact with the Trees/Valinor/Ainur? Yes. It makes it stronger but also exposed them to training they didn't have before.
Elves seemed to have varied skills in magic, just like mundane talents.


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## Gloranthan (Dec 7, 2022)

I wanted to perform a little bit of necromancy because a lot of times there's too much distinction made between fantasy sorcery and Tolkien's own 'magical' powers (in the books, not suggesting the Professor was a wizard). A lot of magic is subtle, and can be interpreted as 'spiritual influence' on the material world, which could make watchers question if anything really 'happened' at all. The role-playing game Maelstrom has this feature in magic, it _seems like coincidence. _I think the distinction between art and technology is artificial and Tolkien's and doesn't bear scrutiny. Ultimately, painting is an act of particle physics.
But, there is some pretty 'typical' magic in LoTR. Shooting lasers, lightning, setting things on fire, swords that glow, shapeshifting - a lot of shapeshifting, especially in _The Silmarillion_. Sauron _becomes a sorcerer_, indicating 1) he's not using 'native' powers and, relatedly; 2) sorcery is a thing _apart _from being an angelic being.
There are some Middle-Earth stories that reference magicians and sorcerers, but nothing much is told about them or their deeds.
I think, ultimately, Tolkien put some 'standard' magic in, but was never really comfortable with it, because he wanted Middle-Earth to be more 'realistic', especially as he got older and revised his works. So, magic in ME is just inconsistent, and becomes less noticeable as we move from the Hobbit to LotR and LotR to his later life.
This is similar to my discussion in the RPG section about Sauron's game statistics. Mechanical magic which causes obvious, unnatural effects wouldn't suit Tolkien's style and would also break the plot logic. Let's nuke Barad-Dur with fireballs! Minas Tirith has no anti-air guns or canopy, rain acid on them! Not only things 'hard' magic does in fantasy, but things modern technology does, really compromise the scenarios in the book, and so were left out.


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