# Study -"A Vala's work is never done!"



## Lhunithiliel (Oct 9, 2003)

This topic has been waiting for too long!

Let's start discussing it 

So... What do we know about the work of each and any of the Greats? 
What info do we find about one typical "working day" of a Vala?

As there are quite a few of them, I suggest we start sharing our views in some order.

Let's start with :

*MANWE*


So... what do you think? What did Manwe use to do in a day?


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## Starflower (Oct 10, 2003)

hmm.... I have always thought Manwe to be more of an admin person... you now, like a general overseer type, rather like a CEO of a company. I would imagine the other Valar would come to him for final approval of designs and decisions. And also for the ELves who are in Aman, Manwe would be the supreme judge in any dispute they would have .


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## Zale (Oct 10, 2003)

You'd think they'd have something to do in their 'speciality' areas: Manwe, being Lord of the Winds and all, might have something to do with their governing (generation etc). Maybe he monitors the weather of ME.
Or, maybe, things aren't quite as fairy-tale as that and they govern/monitor themselves, just like they do here on Earth. But if everything did regulate itself, what's the point in the Valar?


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## Inderjit S (Oct 19, 2003)

> So... what do you think? What did Manwe use to do in a day?



Well, nothing, at all.



> Yea, even from his first coming into Eä from the side of Ilúvatar, and from the young lord of the Valar in the white wrath of his battle with Melkor unto the silent king of years uncounted that sits upon the vanished heights of Oiolosse and watches but speaks no more: all that is he whom we call Manwë.


_Dangweth Pengoloð _ (HoME 12)


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## Lhunithiliel (Oct 19, 2003)

Aaaa... it cannot be!
Apart from judging and holding speaches, like:


> Then arose Manwë Súlimo, Lord of Gods and Elves, and Varda Tinwetáriwas beside him, and he spake in a voice of thunder from Taniquetil, and the Gods in Valmar heard it, and Vefántur knew the voice in Mandos, and Lórien was amused in Murmuran.


...... our dear Manwë sometimes also involved himself into labourous tasks. At least the earliest works tell us so.

For example, BoLT1 tells us about a few of these:


> ...That one of the North he named Ringil and of the South Helkar, and the lamps were made ready and set upon them, being filled with gathered light, silver to the North and golden to the South. This light had Manwë and Varda gathered lavishly from the sky, that the Gods might the better explore the regions of the world, and choose the fairest for their home.


and he also fought


> But when the great Gods and all their folk were armed, then Manwë climbed into his blue chariot whose three horses were the whitest that roamed in Oromë's domain, and his hand bore a great white bow that would shoot an arrowlike a gust of wind across the widest seas...


or did magic:


> Then lashed he at Manwë with an iron flail he bore, but Manwë breathed gently upon it and its iron tassels were
> blown backward...


etc.


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 19, 2003)

But most of the time he was the Big Boss.I mean he was doing nothing special,I wish I was at his place!!!!


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## Eledhwen (Oct 26, 2003)

For Manwe to make wise decisions after all his sitting and thinking, he would need to be well informed. That means lots of looking and listening and sending and receiving, especially of Ulmo, whose kindred spirits get about more than most. That's pretty exhausting in itself if it's done properly, especially if one has taken on physical raiment (did Manwe do that?). What, with all of the blessed realm and the globed world to deal with I doubt he got a moment's peace. No wonder he doesn't do much else - he hasn't time!


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## BlackCaptain (Oct 28, 2003)

Wow... well at first I was gona say something along the lines of breaking his fast at the coming of the Vessel of the Sun, and hold a great daily feast for the Elves at his coming (breakfast, Vala style). Then probly help teach all kinds of lore to the Elves through out the day, then hold another great daily feast at the coming of the Vessel of the Moon (Dinner, Vala style). Then rest because it was such a great meal and then do it all over again.

Then I saw Inderjit's reply and my mind completely turned in awe at that masive knowledge of HoMe in his head. Oh well.


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 28, 2003)

Yeah,Inderjit S is always perfect,just like Ithrynluin.
You can't even argue with them because they will prove their statements using thousands of things which we have not read yet.


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## BlackCaptain (Oct 28, 2003)

Hahah yeah I figured that out by now 

Oh well. It was the thought that counted!


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## Khôr’nagan (Oct 28, 2003)

Yeah, I'd definitely have to agree that Manwë didn't do much during a day. I recall reading, and it was indeed quoted that, Manwë just sat and looked out over the sea, across Middle-Earth, throughout Valinor, etc. He may have also had some sort of contact with Gwaihir, but that's just some speculation. So, which Vala's next?


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## Lhunithiliel (Oct 29, 2003)

Yes ... Manwe - a bore!  

Who'd be the next?

Let's speak f the probably busiest Vala - *Aule*.


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## Starflower (Oct 29, 2003)

Well now , Aule. He is a busy bee isnt't he. Always toiling over his anvil at the forge, makeing new things to brighten the world. Aule clearly takes delight in his work, as is mentioned in several occasions, so I would imagine him spending most of his time making things. How that affects his marriage to Yavanna I wouldn;t dare to speculate...


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 29, 2003)

Well,Aule definitely has a difficult character,just like Ulmo in a way.(If you don't believe me take for example our Aule,from TTF!  )But the most interesting thing is that after Melkor he is the most ambitious Vala,with great abilities.
What does he do everyday?Hard work,what else?


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## Beleg (Oct 29, 2003)

> Well,Aule definitely has a difficult character,just like Ulmo in a way.(If you don't believe me take for example our Aule,from TTF! )But the most interesting thing is that after Melkor he is the most ambitious Vala,with great abilities.
> What does he do everyday?Hard work,what else?



Can you never post anything worthwhile?


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## Inderjit S (Oct 29, 2003)

> Can you never post anything worthwhile?



What constitutes 'worthwile' in your mind exactly?

Every post has it's worth, if it is on topic evene if it is the worst post ever. Off topic posts are of course not worthwhile but he has remained on topic for at least part of his post and does so for a large number of his posts.


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## Lhunithiliel (Oct 29, 2003)

Aule - the one who was never at rest! 

_Now Aulë's mind and fingers itched already to be making things, and he urged this matter the more for that._ - this is what he was !

From BoLT1 (where one finds most detailed facts on this topic)


> The earth and most of its goodly substances did Aulë contrive, whom Ilúvatar had taught many things of wisdom scarce less than Melko, yet was there much therein that was nought of his.
> 
> But Aulë dwelt in Valinor and fashioned many things; tools and instruments he devised and was busied as much in the making of webs as in the beating of metals; tillage too and husbandry was his delight as much as tongues and alphabets, or broideries and painting. Of him did the Noldoli, who were the sages of the Eldar and thirsted ever after new lore and fresh knowledge, learn uncounted wealth of crafts, and magics and sciences unfathomed. From his teaching, where to the Eldar brought ever their own great beauty of mind and heart and imagining, did they attain to the invention and making of gems; and these were not in the world before the Eldar, and the finest of all gems were Silmarilli, and they are lost.
> 
> ...


....and so on....
He practically created the blissful Valinor!
But some of my favourite parts about his mighty work are : on making the special _tilkal_ for the Chain for Melkor, and helping Varda in the creation of the stars, and making the vessels for the Sun and the Moon, and helping the Elves teaching them lore and helped them build Kor....

GREAT WORK!!!


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## Gil-Galad (Oct 29, 2003)

I want to be excused for the things I will say in the following lines.

Beleg,I think that a little fun is never bad idea.And I don't think my post was a kind of "off topic" one.
Aule really had a very difficult character.He was extremely talented and his ambitions to create things of his own made him even cross Eru's will.


> Why hast thou done this?Why dost attemp a thing which thou knowest is beyond thy power and thy authority?For thou hast from me as a gift thy own being only,and no more;and therefore the creatures of thy hand and mind can live only by that being,moving when thou thinkest to move them,and if thy thought be elsewhere,standing idle.Is that thy desire?


The abilities he possessed and his desire to create made even Eru speak to him.

And by the way,I am not sure whether you have the right to speak to me in this way.I do not listen to people who are not honest.Especially when they announce their intentions(yes you could have been honest,you could have said the truth for the reason for your leaving.Lies is what I hate most!!!!).
Is that what you think to be a behavior of an adult person.At least you could have answered my pm-s that you would not like to have anything in commmon with the Guild,even to post the things for which you applied some time ago.
Let me give you one lessson.When you are asked something kidly,reply,no matter what your answer will be,just show respect to the person who has lost time to write you a pm.


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## Khôr’nagan (Oct 29, 2003)

Hear hear! Couldn't have said it better myself. Wonko The Sane was very angry with me in a PM, and still hasn't responded to my reply...

Anywho, Aulë was an awesome Vala. I mean, _really_... He created so many things, countless gems and other things, not to mention the formation of the face of Arda, but whatever. I could imagine him labouring day and night in his forge, creating new and beautiful things, doing his best to spite Melkor (not a bad kind of spite). Other than that, I know not enough to speculate any further into his daily activities.


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## Gil-Galad (Nov 30, 2003)

*ULMO*

And time for *ULMO*  came!!!!!!!!!!The Lord of the Seas and Oceans!!!!!

Let's talk about what did he do?!!!


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## Helcaraxë (Dec 13, 2003)

Oh, I expect Ulmo sees to the proper workings of the Waterways....you know, makes sure the tides are on time, manages the ocean currents, and blows his little conch horn to show his mastery over everything liquid! 

MB


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## celebdraug (Jan 6, 2004)

Basically, he controls all that is under water! Makes sure all is going well there! *(Question: Does he control all the plants too or is that Yavanna's duty/job (whatever you like to call it?)) * And like all the other valar, he advises The Children af Illuvatar!

Draug


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## Gil-Galad (Jan 15, 2004)

celebdraug said:


> Basically, he controls all that is under water! Makes sure all is going well there! *(Question: Does he control all the plants too or is that Yavanna's duty/job (whatever you like to call it?)) * And like all the other valar, he advises The Children af Illuvatar!
> 
> Draug


Very good question Celebdraug,I am eager to read some suggestions.
I personally think that he tried to do more thigns than he could.He was controlling all waters,he was controlling care of Osse(yes there was no love between them)and at the same time he was trying to take care of the Children of Iluvatar,wasn't it too much for him?


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## celebdraug (Jan 20, 2004)

Gil-Galad said:


> I personally think that he tried to do more thigns than he could.He was controlling all waters,he was controlling care of Osse(yes there was no love between them)and at the same time he was trying to take care of the Children of Iluvatar,wasn't it too much for him?


 Well I don't think it was too much (most of the time anyway)! He was a Vala and he should have been able to cope with his duty! But still at times he might have found it too much be dint' he have other maiar sort of like helping him/working with him too like some of the other Valar did?


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## Finduilas (Jan 20, 2004)

*Water Plants*

Firstly and mainly, the Ainur are one whole! They are bound together to help each other! The one cannot take care of his/her work without the other. For example, how do you think did Yavanna water the Two Trees? Or did Manwe or Yavanna rule over the eagles (who dwell in the air and yet are living creatures)?
There are many dependencies in Arda and they are all due to the invaluable power of the Valar to take care of it. 
Now the question who took care of the plants in the waters of Arda is more or less this one: who had the biggest contribution to the up-bringing of Arda?
Would you say Manwe or probably Yavanna (we do not refer to Eru, obviously)? No, they all had. They built it * together* and they are supposed to take care of it together. 
To return to the plants, I personally think that both Yavanna and Ulmo took care of it, just as both Yavanna and Ulmo took care of the Two Trees, and Manwe and Yavanna - of the eagles.


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## celebdraug (Jan 20, 2004)

Great explanation Findi!


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## Lhunithiliel (Jan 20, 2004)

One last thing about Ulmo's work.

He was probably the best Valarin *"diplomat"*. 
He was the Vala who seems to me had always had quite a balanced view of the events both - with the Gods and with the Children. He, I think, was the one who had always tried his very best to bring the races together in a peaceful way. Even when it was needed, he used his "magical" abilities (the whisper in the waters, the dreams etc...) in order to achieve understanding. And when needed, he used his immense God's powers as to help settling a problem (the faring of the Elves).
So... I really like this Vala for all the wisdom and patience he had ever shown! 
I hope we can all agree ion this.

Now.... Let's leave him to "rest" from our curiosity towards his personna and let's turn to the work of another Vala.

I present to you ..........

*VARDA - THE QUEEN OF STARS !!!*


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## celebdraug (Jan 29, 2004)

Varda:
"The Exalted", "The Lofty"
Spouse on Manwe. 
She hallowed the Silmarils.


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## Lhunithiliel (Jan 29, 2004)

celebdraug said:


> Varda:
> 
> She hallowed the Silmarils.


She ...what???


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## Manveru (Jan 29, 2004)

C'mon, _wraith_...  
From _Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor_:


> All who dwelt in Aman were filled with wonder and delight at the work of Fëanor [yeah, right... ble, ble...~Manveru]. And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered;


A lot of work to do, right?


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## celebdraug (Mar 3, 2004)

Shall we move on to the next Vala?


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## Gil-Galad (Mar 3, 2004)

Well,of course we can proceed with the Valar.

I have always had interest in Mandos.

So let it be :

*MANDOS*


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## Manveru (Mar 3, 2004)

Hmm... a little "dark" type to me, the most mysterious of all The Powers... usually silent--talks only when there is a great need of doing so... and when he does speak, he always has some "bad" news or sth... not much of "magnetic personality"  

though probability of his playing "oracle" is great (almost 100%, nay... 100% for sure--although it's sometimes hard to understand what he hints at); good-gambling-fellow


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## Starflower (Mar 3, 2004)

hmm.. I have always thought of Mandos more melancholy than the dark brooding type... I mean spending all his time with the 'dead', or the seriously depressed elves that come to him... must make one somewhat down as well...
Still, he is obviously very highly thought of among the Valar , they listen when he comes to a council with something to say.. and let us not forget that he was moved by Luthien's tears to release Beren back to life, something that he never had done in all the countless eons he had done his job, and would never do so again. Curious character flaw that, was it just Luthien's love that moved him ? Surely there must have been some other reason as well... maybe he foresaw that one day Earendil would come out of these two... But definitely Mandos is intriguing


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## Gil-Galad (Mar 5, 2004)

> So fair were these abodes and so great the brilliance of the trees of Valinor that Vefantur and Fui his wife of tears might not endure to stay there long,but fared away far to the northward of those regions,where beneath the roots of the most cold and northerly of the Mountain of Valinor ,that rise here again almost to their height nigh Arvalin,they begged Aule to delve them a home.


From that extract from BOLT 1 it seems to me that Mandos (Vefantur) did not like going out of his Halls.
To spend all the time there,Mandos probably was really melancholic person.Extremely calm person.
I believe also that he was a kind of perfectionist,because he was patient enough to wait till everything happened in the way he had said it would happen.


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## YayGollum (Jun 19, 2007)

To break the pattern of this thread, I shall inform everyone what each of the Valar type things did in a typical day.

Manwe, the spirit of sock puppets, not the spirit of sock puppetry, since that would require some kind of skill. The spirit of sock puppets. The guy that all other sock puppets would look up to, if they had the ability. Most call him the spirit of air and birds and purity and stuff, but no, he's the spirit of sock puppets. He sits on his throne for a good part of the morning, looking pretty for the boring Vanyar types who come to sing hymns at him and inspect the floor near his feet. After a while, he'll drift off towards a decent vantage point on the tallest of those mountains in Valinor, where he gives many artists the chance to depict him in a cool pose of gazing into the east. Hiking elves have learned to avoid his spot. Random birds report to him, and he nods as if he has a soul and can understand anything, even though he's just a window to Eru. Other than those things, not much. He's always available if something important comes up that would need a body on the most honored throne. Eru, every now as well as then, will speak through him to play around. "Varda, there's a spider in your hair!" Not much else.

Varda is the spirit of pure evil. Most think that she's supposed to be all about prettiness and light and good hearing. Craziness. Read a book by that J. R. R. Tolkien sometime. She's evil, yo. Her usual activities would be sitting on her throne, too, looking all pretty with Manwe, while listening with her super-powered ears to most things everywhere. She wanders a bit, feasting on elfish praise, always acting gracious. She hangs out in those gardens every now and then. When she's bored, she entertains herself with producing those creepy lights to frighten sailors, but that doesn't happen too often, since she's always superly paradoiacally as well as vainly listening to anybody talking about her. Lots of opportunities for artists with her, too, since she'll listen on top of mountains with Manwe, most of the time. He's the jock that makes her look good, in her brain.

Aule is the spirit of Dwarfishness, only more appreciated. Superly cool, like all Dwarves. Spirit of Dwarfishness, spirit of super coolness, same thing. He came up with the idea of keeping some sort of notebook beside his bed to write great ideas down in the middle of the night, even though he doesn't sleep much. He travels all of the time, since Valinor wouldn't have enough to keep him interested. Always unclothed, though, so that he doesn't get distracted by little people wishing to praise him or run away screaming. He oftimes wonders how his brothers in the Void are doing and only rarely walks over to the Door Of Night to ask if he can just poke his head through. Who knows how many planets they've been making without him? But he quickly learned not to talk to the spirit of sock puppets, Manwe. Lots of writing and experimenting and begging Eru to give souls to more of his ideas for new races. Lots of teaching and learning from elves, even though he can't get too advanced with some of his ideas, and their interests have gotten a bit boring, but there are always new personalities to keep him interested. Lots of crazy new theories, lots of praise for elfish inventors and artists of all sorts. Occassional visits to the halls of Mandos, to run a few ideas by some dead experts. He keeps himself busy. And, as a matter of course, he always remembers to shift some continents around every day, just in the hopes that someone will think of some new science when they finally notice what he's been doing.

I'll do some more later. Am at work.


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