# Frodo and 'Ring Time'



## pgt (May 17, 2003)

When exactly did Frodo 1st use the ring? Was it at Bree or did he possibly use it during those early years when Gandalf was abroad?

Thanks,
-T


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## FoolOfATook (May 17, 2003)

He used the Ring in the Barrow-downs and at Bombadil's house before he got to Bree.


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## pgt (May 18, 2003)

Thanks. I hadn't read that section in quite a while. So would Tom B's house be the 1st time then?


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## Lindir (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pgt _
> *Thanks. I hadn't read that section in quite a while. So would Tom B's house be the 1st time then? *


I don't think so. Galadriel says something like: 'you have only used it twice since you knew what you carried.' This would imply that he might have uset it before he knew, but it's not very clear.


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## pgt (May 18, 2003)

Good catch - I wouldn't have caught that remark by Galadrial. Is she marking his knowledge as Gandalf's discussions in the Shire or the council of Elrond? (I don't think he used it at all between Rivendell and Lothlorien)

Let's see we have:

0) unspecificied possible usage during Shire years
1) Tom's,
2) Downs
3) Bree (I remember that one)
4) Weathertop (that's the other I remember)
(Lothlorien)
5) Amon Sul
6) ...? I can't specifically recall him putting it on again...


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## Beleg (May 18, 2003)

> can't specifically recall him putting it on again...



Remember at the cracks of Doom...


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## Ithrynluin (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lindir _
> *I don't think so. Galadriel says something like: 'you have only used it twice since you knew what you carried.' This would imply that he might have uset it before he knew, but it's not very clear. *



How does Galadriel know so precisely and exactly how many times Frodo had used the Ring? Did she read his mind? Or was she simply aware of the moment in which ANYONE put the ring on, and divined their thoughts - in this case Frodo?


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## Lantarion (May 18, 2003)

Maybe she guessed. 



> _Originally posted by pgt_
> 4) Weathertop
> 5) Amon Sul


Hmm.. Perhaps you meant Amon Hen. 
But I personally can't remember the first time he used it.. My memory goes awry after the Old Forest sometimes.
It seems to be Tom's house, but he used it very casually, as though it was no big thing.. His reaction at Bree seemed more like what his 'first time' would have felt like. But perhaps he knows best.


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## FrankSinatra (May 18, 2003)

*Well*

He was testing it at Tom's, because he did not trust Tom, the rings evil at work alread there.

One would guess that Galadriel was 'aware' that he had used it, the same way that Celebrimor was 'aware' when Sauron made the one.

But, an interesting question here, would Gandalf have been 'aware' each time also?

He was aware when Frodo put it on at Amon Hen, because i believe Gandalf was the voice saying 'Take it off fool!'

But this also brings interesting thoughts, could Galadriel and Elrong have 'spoken' to him in this manner when he had the ring on?

Perhaphs that way, Gandalf could have given advice even at a far distance.

Also, the Nazgul, IF they had their nine rings and wore them, would Gandalf and Galadriel have been able to 'sense' them also?

Hmmm.......


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## pgt (May 18, 2003)

OK then we have...

0) possible & unspecificied usage during Shire years ranging from zero to lots...
1) Tom's,
2) Downs
3) Bree
4) Weathertop 
5) Amon Hen
6) Cracks of Doom

I don't remember the details of the Mt Doom scene but I don't doubt you. For the now known 6 times Frodo wore the ring, what kind of times are we talking about? W/ the exception of Weathertop where I think he lay there for a while w/ his ring on, werent' the periods measured in mere seconds to just a couple/few minutes? And based on the count above, Galadrial doesn't seem to be all that accurate no? 

thanks,
-T


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## Ithrynluin (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Well*



> _Originally posted by FrankSinatra _
> *But, an interesting question here, would Gandalf have been 'aware' each time also?
> 
> He was aware when Frodo put it on at Amon Hen, because i believe Gandalf was the voice saying 'Take it off fool!'
> ...



From _The Breaking of the Fellowship_:



> He heard himself crying out: Never, never! Or was it: Verily I come, I come to you? He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!
> The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger. He was kneeling in clear sunlight before the high seat. A black shadow seemed to pass like an arm above him; it missed Amon Hen and groped out west, and faded. Then all the sky was clean and blue and birds sang in every tree.



This seems more like Frodo's inner struggle between what he KNOWS is right (not wearing the ring) and what he FEELS he wants to do (being drawn to it and forced to wear it). Therefore I don't think that the Keepers of the Three would have been able to communicate with Frodo at all. I only think they were aware of him whenever he put the ring on his finger - but perhaps this 'awareness' of someone putting on the One Ring was not as strong as when Sauron for example put on the ring...


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## Arvedui (May 20, 2003)

But then you might have overlooked this statement from Gandalf, later in the book:


> The Ring now has passed beyond my help, or the help of any of the Company that set out from Rivendell. Very nearly it was revealed to the Enemy, but it escaped. I had some part in that: for I sat in a high place, and I strove with the Dark Tower; and the Shadow passed.


From Book Three, 'The Treason of Isengard,' _The White Rider._ 
I don't think we can altogether rule Gandalf out of that struggle.

But, if I remember correctly, this has been disussed before. I just can't find that thread at the moment.

Edit: Found it: the voice in FotR


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## FrankSinatra (May 20, 2003)

*Yes*

That is what i was thinking of Arvedui.


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## Ithrynluin (May 20, 2003)

Arvedui and FrankSinatra, you've missed my point. What does the struggle between Gandalf and Sauron have to do with anything?These two are Maiar, and according to _HoME XI; Quendi and Eldar_ the Ainur are able to transmit thought without using words, so I don't see any problem here, nor have I denied that Gandalf didn't struggle with Sauron. There is not much evidence that Ringbearers could communicate.


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## Arvedui (May 21, 2003)

Sorry about that, ithrynluin. I should have been clearer on this one. I was just disagreeing with your statement that it was two parts of Frodo struggling with himself.
The rest of your post I totally agree with.
I'll try to be more spesific the next time...


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## pgt (May 26, 2003)

Has anyone else considered that Bilbo's ring time was probably measured in many 100s of hours of casual usage. It might approach 1000+ hours.

He walked away from the ring w/ some encouragement from Gandalf.

Frodo wore the ring the times we've listed above for what, minutes? Couple hours? W/o a doubt a tiny fraction of Bilbo's ring time. Yet it had to be wrestled from him. I don't have the dates handy but I don't even think it was in his posession or on his person anywhere near the years Bilbo spent in it's close proximity as the 'owner'.

Curious...

-T


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## Arvedui (May 26, 2003)

I believe the only explanation for this is that the author himself didn't know what kind of ring it was when he wrote "The Hobbit." It turned out to be the One Ring after a short while into "The Lord of the Rings," which made for a number of inconcistencies from the earlier 'Hobbit.'
Such things are difficult to avoid, I guess, when the story unfolds before you as you are writing it.
In one of "The Letters of JRR Tolkien," there is a very good description of how Tolkien himselffelt that the story unfold as he was writing.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 15, 2018)

This is the second time this old thread has popped up on my page, so I guess it's happening to others too. I skimmed through it the first time, and sent it back to wherever it came from, but here it is again, so for whoever might be reading it and be misled, Frodo did _not_ put on the Ring at the barrow; he _thought _about doing so, in his fear and desperation, but then, after finding his courage, took a very different action.

I'm rather surprised no one pointed this out 15 years ago.


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## Deleted member 12094 (Jun 16, 2018)

_"Do NOT use It again, not for any reason whatever"_

This phrase from Gandalf's unsent letter found in Bree confirms that Frodo used the ring in the period before he became aware of its dangers.


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