# Fallen King



## r.j.c. (Jan 27, 2010)

_ Know this question has probably been asked before. My question was it ever said waht King was the headless statue at the crosss-roads in ithilien was of ? I suppose it could have been any from the first king Elendil to whatever king was ruling when the Nazgul took ontrol of Minas Ithil around year 2000 third Age. Any opinions of thoughts are appreciated. THANKS_


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## AmrothofArnor (Jan 28, 2010)

Isn't it said it was Elendil, otherwise it is possible Isildur (Ithilien was his region, ithil is sindarin for Isil)


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## r.j.c. (Feb 1, 2010)

Was it written that it was Elendil ? The statue had a beard.I tought they didn't have beards perhaps not till there were older ?


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## Bucky (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't think it says a single thing in TLOR that I can recall.

Let's not forget that the crossroads weren't so cross until Minas Ithil became Minas Morgul and Near Harad became a 'debatable land'.....

Therefore, I think a later date, from 1000T.A. to 2000 T.A. more likely than immediately after the Exiles arived.


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## Alcuin (Feb 4, 2010)

There were 30 kings of Gondor in the line of the House of Anárion, excluding Castamir the Usurper. The statue at the Crossroads could conceivably been any of them, from Anárion or Meneldil to Eärnil II or Eärnur. It could even have been Isildur: the east road, the road on which Gollum led Frodo and Sam, led to Isildur’s city, Minas Ithil. 

We are not told when the statue was carved, nor whether the stone on which it was carved was a natural outcrop, as seems likely enough, or brought to the site for that purpose by the Dúnedain. (My guess is that it’s a natural outcrop carved into a statue, but that’s _only_ a guess.) The Argonath was carved during the reign of Rómendacil II, who died in Third Age 1366. (There’s nice discussion of the dating of the Argonath at Encyclopedia of Arda.) The royal audience hall in the Tower of Ecthelion in Minas Tirith was also full of statuary: these were surely carved during the lifetimes or shortly after the lives of most the of the kings depicted there, with only the earliest monarchs carved well after their passing; no doubt, however, the Dúnedain of Gondor at the end of the Third Age would recognize a portrait of Elendil or Isildur or Anárion – not to mention Tarannon Falastur or Rómendacil II – as easily as we might recognize a depiction of Henry VIII, Julius Caesar, or Alexander the Great: we have their portraits still intact after many, many centuries. Even heavily stylized portraiture and sculpture – Ramses II, for instance – is instantly recognizable to most of us. 

But Frodo would not recognize the toppled face of a Gondorian king; nor would Sam or Gollum. And I cannot recall that Tolkien ever wrote who the damaged statue might have depicted. It would seem that Aragorn had the statue repaired, since the little army he led to the Black Gate restored the head to its rightful position and removed the orcs’ graffiti. 

_Pharaoh Menkaura, who built the third pyramid of Giza, and Queen Khamerernebty, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. _
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## Bucky (Feb 9, 2010)

Alcuin said:


> Even heavily stylized portraiture and sculpture – Ramses II, for instance – is instantly recognizable to most of us.



*Not unless he just happens to look exactly like Yul Brenner. *


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## Valandil (Feb 15, 2010)

Alcuin said:


> There were 30 kings of Gondor in the line of the House of Anárion, excluding Castamir the Usurper. The statue at the Crossroads could conceivably been any of them, from Anárion or Meneldil to Eärnil II or Eärnur. It could even have been Isildur: the east road, the road on which Gollum led Frodo and Sam, led to Isildur’s city, Minas Ithil.
> 
> We are not told when the statue was carved, nor whether the stone on which it was carved was a natural outcrop, as seems likely enough, or brought to the site for that purpose by the Dúnedain. (My guess is that it’s a natural outcrop carved into a statue, but that’s _only_ a guess.) The Argonath was carved during the reign of Rómendacil II, who died in Third Age 1366. (There’s nice discussion of the dating of the Argonath at Encyclopedia of Arda.) The royal audience hall in the Tower of Ecthelion in Minas Tirith was also full of statuary: these were surely carved during the lifetimes or shortly after the lives of most the of the kings depicted there, with only the earliest monarchs carved well after their passing; no doubt, however, the Dúnedain of Gondor at the end of the Third Age would recognize a portrait of Elendil or Isildur or Anárion – not to mention Tarannon Falastur or Rómendacil II – as easily as we might recognize a depiction of Henry VIII, Julius Caesar, or Alexander the Great: we have their portraits still intact after many, many centuries. Even heavily stylized portraiture and sculpture – Ramses II, for instance – is instantly recognizable to most of us.
> 
> But Frodo would not recognize the toppled face of a Gondorian king; nor would Sam or Gollum. And I cannot recall that Tolkien ever wrote who the damaged statue might have depicted. It would seem that Aragorn had the statue repaired, since the little army he led to the Black Gate restored the head to its rightful position and removed the orcs’ graffiti.



*Alcuin* - regarding the Argonath:

* I think it was more likely built during the Regency of Romendacil II - while his uncle, Narmacil I was still the King - but Romendacil was the one who built it.
* I looked at the discussion on the Encyclopedia of Arda. Although they present the analysis about two different times it could have been built, and don't give much credence to an earlier one - I give even less. The statement they refer to in "Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age" to me seems like a broad sweeping statement - about the first several hundred (or couple thousand) years of Arnor and Gondor - not necessarily something defined by those Second Age years of Elendil, which they seem to dwell on.

Otherwise - I strongly agree with everything you say about the Statue at the Crossroads. There is no indication who it is - yet it may well be that Romendacil would make a sculpture there as well as at Argonath. Since he did Isildur and Anarion at the one - this might be Isildur, who formerly dwelt at Minas Ithil - or, he might have made it of Anarion, who was his own ancestor. It might have been made by someone else though. Perhaps even Earnil had it raised in the likeness of either himself (to commemorate his nearby victory at the Battle of the Camp) - or of Ondoher, who preceded him (and died a little further north up the road).


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