# How do you envision the dance of Lúthien?



## Kinofnerdanel (Sep 28, 2018)

Not sure if I used the correct verb here. Anyway, living in a profoundly different age, I simply don't know _how _or _what _to imagine when I think of Edith Bratt / Lúthien dancing in a clearing. It should have been something enchanting, sensuous, but nothing overly seductive, considering the prudishness of Tolkien. I would say ballet without the moves that requie the legs to be lifted high, but I question my interpretation all the time. Tell me what your opinion on this matter is!


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2018)

That's a hard one. Isadora Duncan's new free form ballet was gaining popularity at the time, and given Edith's love of the theater, it _might _have appeared something like this:






She would, of course, have been more modestly dreessed!


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## Kinofnerdanel (Sep 28, 2018)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> That's a hard one. Isadora Duncan's new free form ballet was gaining popularity at the time, and given Edith's love of the theater, it _might _have appeared something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly what I imagined! The biographical bits make me appreciate it even more


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2018)

Well, I doubt she was doing Ragtime, anyway!


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## Miguel (Sep 28, 2018)




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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2018)

Yeah, I'm going to say "not" on that one -- for Edith _or_ Luthien!


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## Miguel (Sep 28, 2018)




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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 28, 2018)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> That's a hard one. Isadora Duncan's new free form ballet was gaining popularity at the time, and given Edith's love of the theater, it _might _have appeared something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was thinking Traditional Ballet, but without the legs high.


So, like a _chaste _ballet.

I can't see the video you linked due to security, but if you can name the video I'd love to watch!


CL


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Sep 28, 2018)

That's some heavy security you've got there, CL! I take it you can't see anything on the Music thread, then? You're missing the party! 

Anyway, the one I linked here is called "Isadora Duncan Dancers". Unfortunately, the poster used the same title for several clips. The one here is 1:42, if that helps.


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## CirdanLinweilin (Sep 28, 2018)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> That's some heavy security you've got there, CL! I take it you can't see anything on the Music thread, then? You're missing the party!
> 
> Anyway, the one I linked here is called "Isadora Duncan Dancers". Unfortunately, the poster used the same title for several clips. The one here is 1:42, if that helps.


Yeah.  I can go mobile and go Chrome and see it that way, longer, a bit finicky, but I can.


Thanks.



CL


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## Starbrow (Sep 28, 2018)

What I imagine is similar to Isadora Duncan's, but a bit faster.


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## Kinofnerdanel (Sep 29, 2018)

So we pretty much agree on the performance of Miss Duncan, meaning I was close to everyone else's opinion. Except for Miguel, considering you always go slightly freestyle - I love it! Were you a Maia, you could be Ossë, little renegade!



> Melkor hated the Sea, for he could not subdue it. It is said that in the making of Arda he endeavoured to draw Ossë to his allegiance, promising to him all the realm and power of Ulmo, if he would serve him. So it was that long ago there arose great tumults in the sea that wrought ruin to the lands. But Uinen, at the prayer of Aulë, restrained Ossë and brought him before Ulmo; and he was pardoned and returned to his allegiance, to which he has remained faithful. For the most part; for the delight in violence has never wholly departed from him, and at times he will rage in his wilfulness without any command from Ulmo his lord. Therefore those who dwell by the sea or go up in ships may love him, but they do not trust him.


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## Miguel (Sep 29, 2018)

Kinofnerdanel said:


> Were you a Maia, you could be Ossë, little renegade!



Indeed.


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## Barliman (Oct 8, 2018)

Came across this:




Dancing In the Woods

Or in the Peter Jackson idea of mad Elf skills search youtube for
_POLE DANCE ROMANCE in the woods of Greece _


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 8, 2018)

Nice dance -- though I wonder if she wasn't, um, chemically enhanced. 

One question: what's a "made Elf"? Was there an Elf Mafia?!


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## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 8, 2018)

I know of Mad Elf, which is an extremely strong holiday beer lol. I don't personally like it but it's definitely good at enhancing in a chemical sort of way


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 8, 2018)

In fact, I believe Barley gave me a bottle of that.

Come to think of it though, it may have just been an empty.


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## Erestor Arcamen (Oct 8, 2018)

Well if I get anymore, you can have it, tastes like cough syrup to me lol


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## Barliman (Oct 17, 2018)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> One question: what's a "made Elf"? Was there an Elf Mafia?!


I fixed it.


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## Elaini (Oct 17, 2018)

Lúthien could be both seductive and graceful is she so wanted or needed to. The forms of dance I find most beautiful are ballet and (tribal fusion) belly dance, perhaps some medieval / renaissance dances too.

Lúthien's might have been a fusion of all that.

I also enjoy the geisha dances for beauty, but I doubt a dance in a multi layered kimono would be very practical in the woods.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 22, 2018)

I have to doubt Edith was doing anything resembling a belly dance! 

I posted this on the Music thread, but I thought that, as Edith's dance inspired Luthien's, it might also be appropriately appended here, too:


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## Elaini (Oct 23, 2018)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I have to doubt Edith was doing anything resembling a belly dance!



I didn't mean it purely!  Belly dance can be quite graceful if they drop all the wiggles and use different costumes.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 23, 2018)

Fair enough; I was thinking of Middle Eastern and tsifteteli forms. But I welcome education!


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## Elthir (Oct 23, 2018)

The Tolkien biopic is in post-production (I hear), so maybe we're close to seeing Lily Collins give it a whirl. I assume we're going to see Edith's dance.

Anyway, I fell in love with Jean Butler when I first saw this . . .






. . . and now we're happily married!

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.
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Not to each other though.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 23, 2018)

And I was about to congratulate you. . .

A thing for redheads, eh? There were certainly enough of them in that clip.

But yeah, I get it.






And another thread goes astray.


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## Elaini (Oct 24, 2018)

I have the same stance with the dance of Silmarillion characters as I have with Silmarillion characters in general: they don't have to resemble any living actor or model, and neither do their dances have to be purely any type of dances we have. Instead, we can pick some fitting *elements* from each dance and fuse them into a movement that describes the character.

There are plenty of elements that I consider fitting for the Elves in this playlist I'm gathered, and I'll give you a few samples:

*Medieval / Renaissance*. There are plenty of (court) dances that I could imagine the Elves doing











*Ballet*. This goes without saying, since Elves would most likely have the expressive moves and near weightless footwork. The influence from ballet would probably be heavy in my mind:











*Geisha dance*, though most probably _not_ as a forest dance:






*Belly dance*. Stereotypically it's about female dancers being seductive for men, but it has several forms depending on the origins from Middle East, India, Greece or Egypt, and male bellydancers also exist.











And I'll put a cherry on top with *Korean dance*, just because.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Oct 24, 2018)

All of those are very interesting, Elaini -- thanks!

That last one struck me as very like the Isadora Duncan style.

You do make a good point on the "lightness" of the Elves -- Legolas running atop the snow of Caradhras certainly brings that home!

One caveat I'd register is that, as Kinofnerdanel's OP underlined, Luthien's dance was inspired by Edith's; although her dance would doubtless have been lighter, and more "idealized" in Tolkien's conception, still it was based on a real-world event. And that, I _think,_ is what she was asking about (though I'm open to correction -- she hasn't been about lately -- hope she returns soon!).

That, anyway, is what led me to suggest Isadora Duncan as a "real-world" possibility. Though I could be wrong.

Despite the more restrained examples you give, I have to say I remain skeptical that Edith would have been performing anything close to a belly dance!


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## Elaini (Oct 24, 2018)

I'm also starting to bend towards Isadora, I assure you. It has all the elements I've presented, maybe it's even my goal exactly.

I added some it to the list, thanks for letting me know about her.


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