# a trap for the ranger



## Confusticated (Jan 1, 2003)

After the hobbits read the letter from Gandalf, they ask why Strider didn't tell them he was Gandalf's friend. His answer interests me.



> 'Why didn't you tell me that you were Gandalf's friend at
> once?' he asked. 'It would have saved time.'
> 'Would it? Would any of you have believed me till now?' said Strider. 'I knew nothing of this letter. For all I knew I had to persuade you to trust me without proofs, if I was to help you. In any case, I did not intend to tell you all about myself at once. *I had to study you first, and make sure of you. The Enemy has set traps for me before now.* As soon as I had made up my mind, I was ready to tell you whatever you asked. But I must admit,' he added with a queer laugh, 'that I hoped you would take to me for my own sake. A hunted man sometimes wearies of distrust and longs for friendship. But there, I believe my looks are against me.'


"The enemy" as far as I can recall is always used to refer to Sauron directly, or to his power in general.

Which enemy had set traps for Strider the Ranger?

Why and where?


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## Celebthôl (Jan 1, 2003)

it was most likely Sauron, because he knows and understands and therefore fears Aragorn! all for what he is to become, and if u remeber rightly in the books the black riders could take controll of people, namely bill ferny (sp) so they could have taken controll of say four young Hobbits and try to capture Strider off guard! and well it is now obvious why, (because of who he is to become)!

Hope this helped

Thôl


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## Confusticated (Jan 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *it was most likely Sauron, because he knows and understands and therefore fears Aragorn! all for what he is to become, and if u remeber rightly in the books the black riders could take controll of people, namely bill ferny (sp) so they could have taken controll of say four young Hobbits and try to capture Strider off guard! and well it is now obvious why, (because of who he is to become)!
> 
> Hope this helped
> ...


He did not know about Aragorn at the time.
Why go through the trouble of using hobbits and some elaborate trick just to ensnare a ranger?


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## Celebthôl (Jan 1, 2003)

he did know of him (not his name etc but him as a person the heir of Isildur etc) and hobbits are less suspicious than any other!


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## BlackCaptain (Jan 1, 2003)

thats actually a very good question.
But all of you are asking these questions, and almost trying to put Tolkien in a trap yourself.

REMEMBER::::
IT IS ONLY A BOOK!!! IT NEVER HAPPENED!!! YOU MUST ALLOW TOLKIEN TO MAKE MINOR MISTAKES!!! If any of you tried to make a world of your own, and turn it into a novel, you would also surely have made mistakes.

And since he wanders the lands, he must make enemys. Perhaps a clan of orcs that he destroyed, had close friends, and were setting traps and trying to avvenge their deaths? Or maybey aragorn was a dream, and orcs put dream catchers all over the place? WHO CARES!!! 
The point is, Aragorn was not friends to all, and orcs especialy, so he must be careful.


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## Confusticated (Jan 1, 2003)

I'm not putting Tolkien in a trap so much as seeing how folks will dig him out of it.
Maybe this wasn't a mistake... perhaps I overlook something. 

Besides.. I see you yourself just started a thread about a potential mistake in the film. Is there a difference between the two that makes it okay to ask such questions about one but not the other.


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## Celebthôl (Jan 1, 2003)

no one is saying Mr Tolkien has made any sort of mistake! and his enemies were certainly sent by Sauron!


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## Confusticated (Jan 1, 2003)

Well I think it probably was a mistake.
I have my own rationalization for it though, but I want to hear what others say first.


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## Turgon (Jan 1, 2003)

Pure speculation of course - more than likely it was a mistake by Tolkien - but it's always fun to try and find a Middle-earth explaination for these things...

The Enemy mentioned could easily have been Saruman. Aragorn need not have known this, as Saruman had not revealed himself. However as head of the White Council Saruman should/could have known about Aragorn's ancestry and as a general 'Ne'er-do-Well' could have been thwarting him in the North. We know he had spies in Bree - men for the most part, but why not hobbits? Saruman was trickssy right? He had his contacts in the Shire too.

Possible?


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## Confusticated (Jan 1, 2003)

Now this is the kind of thing I was hoping for.

I'm not sure if it works though. Saruman could have had the hobbit spies go along with Strider as far as they could manage in attempt to get information, but what information would be more important than the whereabouts of the Ring?
If these where spies of Saruman... they already had the One Ring. Could hobbits have honestly faked up the disapearing act? So it seems there wasn't sufficient reason for Saruman do try to trap Aragorn. Unless he wanted to kill Aragorn rather than get information from him, but why bother with him if your minions have already obtained the One Ring?
I don't think Saruman would let hobbit spies play games with the One Ring.


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## HLGStrider (Jan 1, 2003)

I think it did mean Sauron and that it wasn't a mistake... if anything just one of those things that could be true but could be not...

Of course, enemy could mean anything, but I believe Aragorn was probably to the point of associating all evil with Sauron, hence any evil was against him... 

It would be obvious that something was protecting the Shire, and I would go as far to say that Sauron knew it was Rangers. He probably knew the Rangers were the remnents of Arnor. Even if he wasn't the direct heir, their chief would have to be a mighty, numenorean of lofty heritage (Remember, Gilrean has extremely pure blood, so it wasn't just the heirs). 

This man, even as a nameless foe, would be a threat. The Ranger's were leading a fairly good resistance against things that would freeze Barliman's blood. It would be handy to get them out of the way... whether these things were incorperated with Sauron or not is another question, but it would not be hard for Aragorn to attribute them to the Big Guy.

Call it ego? Paranoia does show a bit of an ego, I think.

Also, why couldn't Sauron have known that the heir existed, just not who he was or where he was? Is it ever stated that he thought they were all dead (I think I remember it being stated, but as I can't remember where, I am pulling at straws)? I remember they were kept secret, but whispers would escape, and Aragorn had led an eventfilled life..

ANOTHER VERY GOOD POINT Which I would call my best... Is Aragorn's ancestory.

Take a look at how many of his forefathers, including Arathorn his daddy, died before their time, killed by Orcs, Wolves, or whatnot... Obviously these men have been throwing themselves in great danger. Obviously they have enemies. Obviously these are evil enemies and possibly Sauron's counterparts. Obviously Aragorn has something to worry about. Obviously Sauron is stronger than ever before, and the Rangers are his enemies...


So, what do you think?


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## Turgon (Jan 1, 2003)

But if we leave the One Ring out of the equation - and have Saruman's motives Fear of Aragorn or rather what he could become... then I think we can come up with something quite convincing...

We know that Sauron feared Aragorn once he had revealed himself - is it possible Saruman felt the same way? If this enemy had laid traps for him before, it is possible that he did so before he even discovered that the Ring was in the Shire - a knife in the dark being one of the possible traps...

I guess the disappearing act is where this theory falls apart - but then this could have been ultra-caution on Aragorn's part - I guess where the Ring was concerned it pays to be cautious - Aragorn is on the lookout for a party of hobbits travelling under the name of Underhill - and lo and behold! four hobbits appear fitting that description and one of them appears to be carrying the one (mysteriously vanishing before his very eyes!) Aragorn leads these hobbits off into the wild, while in the meantime - The real hobbits appear in Bree and are left at the 'mercy' of the enemy... This is not necessarily Saruman playing games with the One Ring, but Aragorn thinking that the enemy is doing so... jumping at shadows - and rightly so.

Okay not an airtight theory... but the best I could come up with at such short notice...

Edit: Nice theory Elgee - much more sensible than mine! Still - that Saruman - he was a nasty sort...


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## HLGStrider (Jan 1, 2003)

I like mine better, but I could see it either way.


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## Anamatar IV (Jan 1, 2003)

It is obviously referring to Sauron because all throughout the books they call him the *E*nemy with a capital 'E'. I have never seen Saruman called either the enemey OR the Enemey

I suppose Sauron may have set traps for Aragorn thinking of him under a different elias...maybe he set traps for Thorongil. Or maybe Sauron just wanted to rid the world of Rangers and set traps for the chief of them.


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## HLGStrider (Jan 1, 2003)

Well, he certainly wanted to rid the world of people who opposed him... and maybe Numenoreans...
I doubt even Sauron had associated Strider with Thoronguil... though I would say that he would have a grudge against Thoronguil.


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## Turgon (Jan 1, 2003)

One thing that does stand out here though - is that Saruman would have known who Aragorn was. Whether or not it was Saruman laying traps for him is another matter. Elgee's theory makes sense - Aragorn probably would have attributed any foul play to Sauron, and a lot depends on what Aragorn thinks is going on - he doesn't have the knowledge we, as readers, have.

Guess I'm not convincing anyone with my Saruman theories huh? He did kill trees you know... evil!


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## Confusticated (Jan 1, 2003)

> _ By HLGStrider_
> It would be obvious that something was protecting the Shire, and I would go as far to say that Sauron knew it was Rangers. He probably knew the Rangers were the remnents of Arnor. Even if he wasn't the direct heir, their chief would have to be a mighty, numenorean of lofty heritage (Remember, Gilrean has extremely pure blood, so it wasn't just the heirs).


I agree to an extent... I think some evil had to have been setting traps to be rid of this threat - the rangers. Even if Sauron didn't know about Aragorn, the minions [color=dark-blue]or even Saruman's guys (for Turgon )[/color] would have tried to kill off the rangers.
So that explains his statement that traps had been set in the past.

This coupled with what Turgon says here completes my theory...


> _By Turgon_
> but then this could have been ultra-caution on Aragorn's part - I guess where the Ring was concerned it pays to be cautious - Aragorn is on the lookout for a party of hobbits travelling under the name of Underhill - and lo and behold! four hobbits appear fitting that description...



Aragorn was so cautious that maybe even in his... dare I say... paranoia... he failed to think the situation through well enough to realize that spies would not be playing around in Bree with the One Ring just to ensnare him. Or even if he did think it through well enough to realise that it is very unlikely... better safe than sorry.
That explains his willingness to fear a trap in regard to the hobbits.
I think this was a mistake on Tolkien's part, that he must have wrote this before the story was very developed and simply never went back to change it... but it's always fun to come up with explainations.


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## Bombadillo (Jan 2, 2003)

you must remember one thing: aragorn was the heir of the throne of Gondor, so he had a lot of enemies, not only was he dangerous te sauron and saruman, but also to the entire house of teh stewards of Gondor!
So many traps had been set, but by whom? if one of these had found out he/she/it would certainly try to kill this ranger.


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## Gloer (Jan 2, 2003)

"As soon as I had made up my mind, I was ready to tell you whatever you asked. But I must admit,' he added with a ***** laugh, 'that I hoped you would take to me for my own sake "

I am appalled!

This forum is automatically sensoring J.R.R. Tolkien's words!!!

Bloody *******!


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## Eriol (Jan 2, 2003)

When he said "the Enemy has set up traps for me before", he does not (necessarily) means traps for Aragorn the Ranger, Isildur's heir. He had many names in many lands. I am positive, for instance, that when he was Thorongil the Enemy _did_ set up some traps for him. (After all Thorongil did mess up with his forces in Umbar!). And he would not qualify that comment for the hobbits, saying "the Enemy has set up traps for me _as the Heir of Isildur_ before", he would just remember the traps and mention them (as he did).

The theories presented are ingenious. I think there is a whole sense of paranoia in the story that must not be downplayed. From Gandalf's advice to Frodo even before he left the Shire to keep the matter a dead secret up to Elrond's comment that Saruman's treachery was not as surprising as it appeared ("it is dangerous to study the arts of the Enemy..."). But I must comment that _before_ Gandalf's letter appeared Aragorn had already decided to trust the hobbits, as stated in Gloer's censored (why?) quote in the last post. He was, therefore, just following the general paranoia of the good guys, and not being inordinately untrusting (is there such a word?).


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## Turgon (Jan 2, 2003)

Apparently the word used in Gloer's Tolkien quote was automatically censored by the forum - strange but true - it was not my doing - and I don't agree with it being censored either - for it is a word that Tolkien uses often. (Though these days it can have a rather derogatory meaning) However he went on to post a word that _did_ need censoring - which doesn't really help his case any, in my opinion.


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## Eriol (Jan 2, 2003)

Yes, it is strange. The software has been censoring the word (?) "c u m", in the middle of words as doc u mentary, which is really odd... I never though it was out of sheer malice Turgon, it struck me as an automatic response of the software. On the whole when the mods censor (deliberately) they have good reasons.


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## HLGStrider (Jan 2, 2003)

> you must remember one thing: aragorn was the heir of the throne of Gondor, so he had a lot of enemies, not only was he dangerous te sauron and saruman, but also to the entire house of teh stewards of Gondor!



I always wanted to believe that Denethor (then the heir to stewarship) suspected Thoronguil's identity and that there was a rivalry between them, but even if it is true, I don't see him setting traps.

I remember when the automatic system kept taking out **** as in ****tail, ****y, or ****roach... real pain.

IT'S DOING IT AGAIN! I thought they fixed this problem... Co-ck.


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## Gloer (Jan 4, 2003)

*The filter is b a s t a r d i z i n g Tolkien!*



> _Originally posted by Turgon _
> *Apparently the word used in Gloer's Tolkien quote was automatically censored by the forum - strange but true - it was not my doing - and I don't agree with it being censored either - for it is a word that Tolkien uses often. (Though these days it can have a rather derogatory meaning) However he went on to post a word that did need censoring - which doesn't really help his case any, in my opinion. *




B a s t a r d = 1 illegitimate child; 2 a (slang, derogative) person regarded with contempt, ruthless or cruel person; b thing that causes difficoulty, pain, etc; 3 (slang) (Used to address somebody, usually a male friend, informally): _Harry, you old bastard! Nice to see you here!_ (used to show sympathy, usually for a man) unfortunate fellow: _The poor bast ard! he just lost his job._ 4 not genuine or authentic; showing an odd mixture: _a bastard style, bastard language_

b a s t a r d i z e = used in past participle: make something less pure or authentic; a bastardized form of English


I have legitimate claim to say that this language filtering programme is b a s t a r d i z i n g the language.


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## Gloer (Jan 4, 2003)

*Ok, now...what is that word!?*

I really started this bastardly complaint because the adjective started to bug me.

You know a laugh that is like something with fife letters in it. I hate crossword puzzles and I only have the finnish version of the book. And when I went to get it, I realized that a friend of mine borrowed it in July and he is now in Malaysia!

All this because of someone thinks that we need word filters.

It is unconstitutional! And it is plain down right patronizing. And worst of all: it is stupid, irritating, bastardly device that only makes it harder to understand.


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## Eledhwen (Jan 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Celebthôl _
> *LMAO *


I have absolutely no idea what this means.

I think that maybe you are all falling for a joke started by Rangerdave. Do you really think that the filters in this forum are so crude that they cannot tell whether a string is a profanity (made discrete by spaces) or part of another word?

Back to the subject:


> _Ivorwen, grandmother of Aragorn_:*"The days are darkening before the storm, and great things are to come. If these two (Arathorn and Gilraen) wed now, hope may be born for our people; but if they delay, it will not come while this age lasts."* Aragorn was only two years old when Arathorn went riding against the Orcs with the sons of Elrond, and he was slain by an orc-arrow.


Plainly, the enemies of the Dúnedain were never far away. Yet my main reason for reading this extract from the story of Aragorn and Arwen (Appx LotR) was to establish that although Saruman was deep into the counsels of the Elves of Rivendell, he was not told everything, and probably did not know of Aragorn's lineage. Indeed, Aragorn himself was not told until he was twenty. Elrond and his sons definitely held a "need to know" policy, for Aragorn only came to know about Arwen when he beheld her in the forest, believing her to be Lúthien returned. If Elrond withheld information from Aragorn, who he raised as his son; how much more likely is he to hold back from Saruman, an outsider?

Because (in my opinion) Saruman didn't know, I don't think Sauron was aware of the return of Isildur's heir until Aragorn confronted him via the Palantír. However, Sauron was aware of the Dúnedain generally, knowing of their opposition to him from the time of the Downfall of Númenor when Sauron poisoned their minds and the Elendili were considered outcasts because they opposed him. The Dúnedain remained an irritant to Sauron throughout, and whatever form Aragorn's enemies took, most were servants of Sauron. Saruman's agents were also at work, though secretly, for he was yet to play his hand.

On the possibility of Denethor being an enemy to the Rangers, I think he was basically a good guy, but functionally disabled as a strategist through the Sauron effect via the Palantír, while his sons got on with the main, obvious battle plans against the orcs of Mordor and their allies. Sauron could bring despair to Denethor, but he could not provoke him to act against his real allies.


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## Confusticated (Jan 4, 2003)

I think it is true about the filters. It happend to a couple of my posts throughout the forum. Plus, I don't think the moderators would edit a post without it being known under any cir***stance.  

Eledhwen, I agree with your post. I had figured that Saruman did not know Aragorn simply because he probaby would have told Sauron somehow if he had. 
But this all brings forth the real question here... we generally seem to agree that traps had been set for Strider the ranger.
What I doubt is that traps were set for Aragorn.

Since I believe THAT, I found it hard to believe that Strider/Aragorn would have thought the hobbits were a trap given the situation. Strider the ranger surely wasn't worth that kind of risk taking, and I don't even think Aragorn would have been. Even if Strider thought that the enemy had learned his true identity, did he really think Sauron would play with the One Ring like that?

Only if he were paranoid could he think it... me thinks.


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## Turgon (Jan 4, 2003)

Okay I confess my Saruman theory has more holes in it than Boromir's undershirt - It is not so much that Saruman didn't reveal Aragorn to Sauron - Saruman was not the most loyal of servants. 

But looking it at the evidence in the Tale of Years - TA 2951 (when Elrond reveals Aragorn true ancestry) to TA 3000 (the year Saruman is insnared by Sauron) it seems as if Tolkien or Chance conspired to keep Aragorn and Saruman apart. Though it is also made clear that Saruman knows full well that the Rangers are guarding the Shire. 

In fact there was something that bugged me in the Saruman theory - the fact that Aragorn stood apparently unnoticed with Gandalf before the Doors of Orthanc - I looked through the chapter to see what information Tolkien gave us on this event and found none, though I did remember something being mentioned... *However* *drums* I found the quote I was looking for.



> _from 'The Palantír'_
> 'But I cannot tell how it will fall out, well or ill for us. It may be that the counsels of the Enemy will be confused, or hindered by his wrath with Saruman. It may be that he will learn that I was there and stood upon the stairs of Orthanc - with hobbits at my tail. Or that an heir of Elendil lives and stood beside me. If Wormtongue was not deceived by the armour of Rohan, he would remember Aragorn and the title that he claimed.'



Apparantly Gandalf's main worry was that Gríma would recognize Aragorn - not Saruman.

But anyway - that's old news!?! On to my next theory - 'Bill Ferny - The Wizard of the North'


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## HLGStrider (Jan 4, 2003)

I can see Denethor going out of his way to disgrace Thoronguil or even challange him to a duel when Thoronguil was serving under his father (in fact it is the main plot to that one bit of fanfiction I've always meant to write but haven't.), but I can't see him seeking him out to murder after that.

I can see Sauron going out of his way to destroy the Rangers' cheif.
I can see Sauramen doing the same after a point.
I think that when Aragorn said he wanted to be sure of the Hobbits he was thinking of himself BEFORE the ring trick. After that he just wanted to make sure they weren't as idiotic as they made themselves appear, that the next day they wouldn't go and blab everything he told them to Bill Ferny, which, considering Pippin's part of the preformance would be a concern...

Before the ring trick...

Look at what he knew. 

They were with Bombadil... ok guy... but it did seem awful convenient... didn't it?


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## Brytta (Jan 4, 2003)

> Apparantly Gandalf's main worry was that Gríma would recognize Aragorn - not Saruman



The answer is simpler than that. Aragorn announces himself as the heir of Elendil in Edoras when speaking to Hama, Doorward of Theoden.



> It is not clear to me hat the will of Theoden son of Thengel, even though he be lord of the Mark, should prevail over the will of Aragorn son of Arathorn, Elendil's heir of Gondor



Surely Grima Wormtongue would hear of this confrontation and pass on the information to Saruman.

And just an aside, Theoden's word _should_ prevail in Meduseld. But I'll give Aragorn the benefit of the doubt because he must certainly was fatigued from his journeys across the wide plains of Rohan.


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## gate7ole (Jan 4, 2003)

A few remarks about everything I've read:

1. Aragorn could not Saruman when speaking for the Enemy, since he didn't know then that Saruman was a traitor. And you must assume that Aragorn can distignuish the servants of Sauron. So, the enemy os Sauron.

2. Seeing Frodo disappear after using the ring is not an evidence that Frodo has the Ruling Ring. Aragorn couldn't know if there were other rings with invisibility abilities. He should assume that it was possible.

3. Now, why Sauron should trap a Ranger, I'm too at a loss. This whole subject of what does Sauron know of Eriador, is full of holes.
Remember that the Witch-King dwelt there for a long time (and even fought against hobbit-archers during those years), but had no idea about where Shire was!!!
He seemed to know the Rangers (by the quote we're discussing), but had no idea that one of them was the heir of the Northern Kingdom!!!
He seemed completely unaware of Eriador, which costed him an easy grab of the Ring.


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## Confusticated (Jan 4, 2003)

So what you make of it gate7ole. I'm guessing you don't like my rationale since you think that it could have been another of the Rings of Power.
But since you don't see any reason that Sauron would go to great lengths to catch a ranger... I don't know what you do think.

But assuming that Aragorn was of the thought that the hobbit disappeared by the power of one of the dwarf Rings for example... then I see justification for Aragorn's fear.
if he was willing to think Sauron would go through the great trouble of setting another Ring up in Bree with 4 hobbits as a trap then why be willing to think that his identity had been discovered?

While we're digging into this rationale... is there any proof that the other Rings of Power would make someone invisible?
Gandalf was willing to think it, but I question it for the following reason:
I have always attributed the One Ring's ability to prolong life to the fact that it pulls it's wearer into the wraith world. If this is true then only the One Ring should make someone invisible, as it is the only one to prolong life.
But... all the above may be incorrect.
If it written someplace that the other rings of power make the wearer invisible then I assume the theory holds up that Aragorn thought Sauron might have discovered his identity. This may be more likely than my initial rationale that Aragorn was paranoid, and that all traps in the past were for just for Strider the ranger who isn't worth (to Sauron's knowledge at this point) that much effort.
There is also the chance that the other rings of power do not make the wearer invisible... but that Aragorn didn't know this and was therefore able to think that they could, just as Gandalf did.

What do you say gate7ole?


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## Eledhwen (Jan 5, 2003)

It couldn't have been a dwarf ring - Sauron had all of those, the last being taken from Thorin's father, Thráin, in Dol Guldur. The only ring still at large were the Elven rings, which were unlikely to be in the hands of anyone other than Elves (Círdan had given his to Gandalf; he was in a unique position to know where Gandalf came from and why). That leaves only the One Ring, though like the possibility of thermonuclear war - nobody would want to believe it.


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## Confusticated (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eledhwen _
> *It couldn't have been a dwarf ring - Sauron had all of those... *


Exactly... Sauron had some of them. 
Must state obvious incase that was unclear: he couldn't very well use them in a scheme if he didn't have them.

By the way, I was mistaken about what Gandalf said. He didn't say that only the One Ring prolonged life... he said that the great rings do (paraphrasing).
I do feel like a fool for thinking that, considering the Ring wraiths... ah well, good thing I am without pride


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## gate7ole (Jan 5, 2003)

Not knowing about the magic rings any more than what Lotr says, none can know whether other “lesser” rings could make someone invisible. But this is not that important and Nóm showed why: 


> There is also the chance that the other rings of power do not make the wearer invisible... but that Aragorn didn't know this and was therefore able to think that they could.


Aragorn should assume that everything is possible and be prepared to deal with every danger, existing or not, like for example an invisibility ring. Now, about Sauron (or the Witch-King), we shouldn’t underestimate his cunningness. He knew that the Ring with 4 hobbits had left Hobbiton. He also knew that there would be help from the Rangers who were in league with the Elves. The best that he could do was to deceive them. So, I guess that when Aragorn speaks of being trapped by the Enemy, he doesn’t refer to himself as the heir of Isildur but as the chieftain of the Rangers, the chief enemy of the northern lands. There is no paranoia in this, just precaution.


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## Confusticated (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't believe that the lesser rings make people invisible, but as we said... Aragorn might know/think they do. Though, as I also said above, why not use one of the great dwarf rings? 
Anyhow, this all makes sense gate7ole. That trap could have potentialy happend to Strider the ranger.


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## BlackCaptain (Jan 5, 2003)

I dont know if any one said anything about this yet, but perhaps it was:

When there wasthe White COuncil to remove the Necromancer from Dol Guldor, Gandalf mentniond Aragorn to Sauraman, and how he would, or could help them on the quest. Because remember, when they first removed the "Necromancer", Gandalf had his original ideas as to Bilbos ring being the one ring. So perhaps Gandalf mentioned, that if this was true, Aragorn could help them. This might have lead Sauraman to set traps for Araragorn, so he couldnt help them...
Just a simple idea... probably not so simple actually...

Or perhaps, as someone said before, it was Bill Ferny... He was the bad guy at that time, and place, and "Around here, he's known as Strider", is saying that people in bree, including bill ferny, knew about Strider (not that he was Aragorn, just that he was a potentioal threat.)(but he really wasnt a threat). 

But when he says that" the enemy has set traps for me", I think he is talking about something bigger than a Pony thief. Bill Ferny was probably least on his mind. To solve this problem, i think we need a solid quote from one of the books.

Im not good at putting my thoughts into words... sorry if i confused anybody


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## HLGStrider (Jan 5, 2003)

Also he was dealing with something bigger than himself, and if these were the wrong hobbits the quest would be in danger...

I still think that the rangers were enough of an annouance that bad things would have traps for him... though I think it was a bit extreme to think these were the traps...

Is it possible that Aragorn was refering to his suspicions BEFORE the disappearing trick when he first introduced himself to Frodo?


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## HLGStrider (Jan 5, 2003)

I wanted to post a few of the reasons I have for believing that Aragorn meant that he was suspicious BEFORE the Ring Prank (I am really starting to enjoy capitalizing BEFORE)....

Ok, after Frodo recieves the letter...
"Why didn't you tell us you were Gandalf's friend at once?"
And in response Aragorn says the hunted line we are all so concerned about....

But I believe at once meant before the prank, before Aragorn had been escorted into the room, when they were first talking. Frodo wanted him to have introduced himself as "I'm a friend of Gandalf's and I'm here to help." 

So I think, dealing with the at once, Aragorn would have answered in kind and said why he didn't immediately say that. After the ring prank it was a tad bit obvious that Frodo was who he said he was.

Also Aragorn was about to tell his story before Butterbur entered the room... something that tells me he already trusted Frodo to some great extent. There is nothing that happens between the Ring Prank and this point to earn this trust. It would've had to have been earned either by the Ring Prank or before it.

I'd say it was by the ring prank, and Aragorn is referring to his caution and suspicion in past tense. He had wondered about the Hobbits, through necessary caution, but seeing that they really had the ring convinced him they really were who he suspected...

It makes sense.


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## gandalfthegreat (Jan 6, 2003)

That is what is so good about Tolkien...he makes you think, and think beyond what you know for fact.

-*Gandalf*-

P.S.- Does it really matter, Tolkien got his job done, because you are at least thinking beyond what he wrote.


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## HLGStrider (Jan 7, 2003)

That's what threads like this are for... ideal speculation... but I think I like all of my ideas so well that I am just going to sit here feeling superior...

(Elgee sits there feeling superior).


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## HLGStrider (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm just bringing this up because it came up again and I don't know how to post links. . .


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## HLGStrider (Jun 26, 2003)

Gosh this was such a great thread. . .Would it be possible to set up a poll at the begining to see which arguement won in the minds of readers?

As I see it the arguements are
A. Mistake of Tolkien
B. Aragorn/Saruman theory
C. My theory about Aragorn being in danger just because he was a Ranger by Sauron. . .

Any others?


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## Malbeth (Jun 27, 2003)

Regarding Gandalf telling Saruman about Aragorn in the White Council reunion to drive out the Necromancer... it is not possible, because Aragorn was then a 10 year old child living in Rivendell... I'm not sure Gandalf had even heard of him by then, and even if he had, he knew Aragorn could not be of much help yet....


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## HLGStrider (Jun 27, 2003)

My guess would be that Gandalf knew a little bit about the heirs of Elendil, but I don't think he would've known much, if anything, about Estel, and I don't think he probably would've considered him a great asset until they met during (I think) Aragorn's 30's.

There is an interesting bit of fanfic in the Prancing Pony about Aragorn's youth (I forget what it is called) by Tar-Ancalime right now. It is rather interesting.


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## HLGStrider (Aug 16, 2003)

Does anyone remember the quote about Gandalf and Aragorn meeting involving something about Aragorn telling him his story?

I thought it was in the appendix but all it says there is, apparently, "Aragorn and Gandalf meet and their friendship begins."

Anyway, I'd always imagined that Aragorn had used this time to tell Gandalf his story.


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## Eriol (Aug 17, 2003)

They knew each other quite well, and had travelled together extensively, as the famous "cats of Queen Berúthiel" quote shows. I'll get it, wait a bit. 

Here it is:



> Do not be afraid! I have been with him on many a journey, if never on one so dark; and there are tales of Rivendell of greater deeds of his than any that I have seen. He will not go astray -- if there is any path to find. He has led us in here against our fears, but he will lead us out again, at whatever cost to himself. He is surer of finding the way home in a blind night than the cats of Queen Berúthiel.



Yep, it sounds as if they knew each other quite well. I don't remember any quote more clear than that, but I won't vouch that there is not any. I just like that quote very much .


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## HLGStrider (Aug 17, 2003)

I don't doubt that they knew each other well. I'd always been sure of the fact. Aragorn was the first person Gandalf thought of when he wanted to hunt for Gollum. They often talked alone during the quest and afterwards. I always saw Gandalf as being a mentor figure to Aragorn. He was almost grandfatherly to Frodo, but he seemed to take guiding Aragorn very seriously.

Second to the ring, I think he saw getting Aragorn ready for the throne as his great job to do.

Of course, I'm more Aragorn centered than most readers.


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