# LotR IS Bilbo's book?



## tookish-girl (Mar 6, 2003)

Well, I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but what do people think of the idea that Lord of the Rings is the book that Bilbo's writing?

One thing I think that makes it possible is when Pippin and Merry become free and escape from the orcs in the Two Towers. Merry makes the comment that Pippin deserves a chapter ijn Bilbo's book, when he has in fact, just taken up a chapter in the book. 

Also, I read somewhere (possibly the appedices) that the Red Book, eventually was passed onto Sam and the story ends with Sam and Rosie and baby Elenor in Bag End.

It doesn't have the ending "They all leaved happily and peacefull til the end of their days" though, which would have been good!

What do you all think?


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## LadyDernhelm (Mar 6, 2003)

My understanding was that Bilbo's book was originally _The Hobbit_, a.k.a. "There and Back Again." (If you'll notice, the REAL book of _The Hobbit_ is subtitled "There and Back Again.") But it was more than a "book", it was somewhat of a life-history of the Bagginses and their associates (and later, the Gamgees). After Bilbo had finished, Frodo's adventures were recorded (becoming our _Lord of the Rings_) and Sam added to it. And then I'm sure there was some hobbit-history in there as well.  Which means that Bilbo's book is BOTH the Hobbit AND LoTR, in a general sense. . .


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## Eledhwen (Mar 6, 2003)

I think that's how it's meant to be imagined. Bilbo had already written The Hobbit (There and Back Again), and various other snippets, But when Frodo got back to Rivendell after the Ring quest, Bilbo had not done much more than before they left. Frodo took all Bilbo's papers and put them in order, then spent the rest of his time at Bag End completing the book as far as his own journey went. Frodo then charged Sam with the task of finishing the book (otherwise we would not have the account of the Grey Havens and subsequent events). When the book was handed to the Fairbairns, the family trees would have been completed, and whatever news came of the passing of the rest of the fellowship, including Legolas and Gimli's departure for the Blessed Realm.


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## FrankSinatra (Mar 6, 2003)

*Yes*

Its only the way that Bilbo is discussed that begs me to differ.

It is more from Frodo's point of view in my opinion.

And it is said, that Bilbo was too sleepy at the end of the quest, and Sam actually congratulates Frodo on completing the book.


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## Maerbenn (Mar 6, 2003)

Frodo has an interesting line reagarding Balin at the end of 'A Journey in the Dark' which seems out of character:


> 'He is dead then,' said Frodo. `I feared it was so.'


 This doesn't seem like the kind of thing Frodo would be concerned with or think about at all. Frodo doesn't talk like this. This seems more like something Gandalf or Aragorn, or possibly Gimli would say.

This is what *Nimruzir* had to say about the line on another message board:

I believe this is a comment from Bilbo concerning his good friend Balin.

I will note that AFAIK, Bilbo wrote a fair portion of LOTR (story internal).

_The Fellowship of the Ring_:
'We can have many a good talk. What about helping me with my book and making a start on the next?'

_The Fellowship of the Ring_:
For a while the Hobbits continued to talk and think of the past journey and of the perils that lay ahead.'

_The Fellowship of the Ring_:
'Then Bilbo would read passages from his book (which still seemed very incomplete) or scraps of his verses, or would take notes of Frodo's adventures.'

_The Fellowship of the Ring_:
'I'll do my best to finish my book before you return. I should like to write the second book, if I am spared.'

_The Return of the King_:
The Tale of the Great Ring, complied by Bilbo Baggins from his own observations and the accounts of his friends.'

I note that this last quote also states 'Here Bilbo's hand ended and Frodo had Written...'

But this is in regard to the title page, and since this is the 'Red Book' which consists of 81 chapters (LOTR AND The Hobbit combined - The Grey Havens had yet to be penned by Sam) obviously Bilbo's hand did not 'stop' there. 

I suggest, in all probability, (much as the good Prof. himself did), that Bilbo's 'hand' stopped at the tomb of Balin in Moria, since the 'majority' of text still remained to be written in Frodo's hand.

Bilbo seemed to lose interest shortly after the story was being told, when the companions returned to Rivendell and seemingly did not complete the rest.


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## Goldberry (Mar 6, 2003)

Pretty convincing, Maerbenn.


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## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

Yeah I think it was something like a Bagginses family history.


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## nollaig (Mar 10, 2003)

i just finished lotr and i am going to read other tolkien works now. Which one should i read now? Are all of his works linked?Some1 told me the hobbit is a prequel to the lotr? is this correct?


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## Arvedui (Mar 10, 2003)

Yes it is.
If you haven't read the Hobbit, I would advice you to do so. And if you still want more after that, have a go at The Silmarillion.
Enjoy.


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## BlackCaptain (Mar 10, 2003)

About Frodo not saying that thing in the Chamber of Margzubul, I have no problem accepting it. It was Frodo's choice to lead the company down into Moria in the first place, and when his hopes of Balin stillbeing there to help him were shatered, he may have felt bad that he led the entire Fellowship down there on a doomed hope.


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## nollaig (Mar 11, 2003)

thanks,i just got the hobbit before reading ur message,i'll start reading right away!


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