# Trolls to Stone



## Prince of Cats (Apr 4, 2008)

Hey new Friends 

In the Hobbit east of the Shire from Bilbo's journey the party encounters three trolls. They are turned to stone by the rising sun. I have two questions:

1.) In the 1977 movie they show (and the trolls note that) Gandalf 
bringing the sun's morning light before dawn. I just saw this movie today for the first time after having read the book several times over the past 10 years (5 times in the last year). I've thought about this before the movie, whether Gandalf brings the light by magic or if the Trolls were so delayed that the sun came before them by surprise, and Gandalf herald the moment. I've always settled upon the second idea, that Gandalf delayed them until the moment, but the movie made me wonder what the consensus is. What do you think, did Gandalf bring morning (or false morning)?

2.) In the story the Trolls are turned to stone. It's said in the book that they were turned back to the things they were made of. I am curious, then, do any see them as beings made of stone shaped like a large humanoid or are they of flesh? In an illustrated copy I read and I believe the movie they appear with what looks like flesh, not rock. Just curious what others think about it.

That Balrog question got me thinkin


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## Barliman Butterbur (Apr 4, 2008)

Not even Gandalf has the power to alter the movements of the planets and stars! The trolls were caught in the dawnlight and it turned them to stone, just as Gandalf had planned it.

Barley


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## Prince of Cats (Apr 9, 2008)

Hey Barliman,

While I agree that was the intent of Tolkien, I just watched the cartoon movie again and it appears that they mean to show Gandalf brought the morning. As he says "dawn take you all ..." etc it is very dark in the forest, then the rays suddenly shine in and one troll says "The Sun! Blast it! How could the morning come so soon?!" and suddenly there are morning birds about singing and the sky is clear.

I have to say, even though it butchers the story, I kind of like the movie  . I have two versions of hobbit audiobooks and I like the songs from the movie the best, it's great how they tell the story with the songs.

And the theme song, "The mold of life is in your hands to break" I think one of the lines went


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## Eledhwen (Apr 10, 2008)

Gandalf deliberately kept the Trolls distracted with arguing and fighting through to the end of the night. His cry of "Dawn take you all.." was a cry of triumph that his ploy had succeeded (he made another grand announcement in LotR at the moment he realised Frodo's quest had succeeded).

Tolkien has said (maybe in 'Letters' - I'll have to look it up), that the Trolls were made by Morgoth in mockery of the Ents; but like much of Morgoth's creation they could not abide daylight; and would revert to the stone that was their true substance if caught in the sun's rays.


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## Bucky (Aug 20, 2008)

that the Trolls were made by Morgoth in mockery of the Ents; but like much of Morgoth's creation they could not abide daylight; and would revert to the stone that was their true substance if caught in the sun's rays.

*Well if Ents came from trees, why not trolls from stone?
Of course, this is in no way in accord with the notion that Orcs were corrupted from just either Elves and/or Men. To be in accord with this, trolls would have to be perverted from Ents, i.e., trees.

Also, there's the problem that trolls, which could not 'abide the sun', appear to do so before the arising of the Olog-Hai around the time of The War of the Ring......

(The Silmarillion, 'Of the Fifth Battle'):

'Last of all, Hurin stood alone....it is sung that his axe smoke in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered....as the sun went down'

Not only that, it takes place on the SIXTH continuous day of battle - Come on JRR!*


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## chrysophalax (Aug 20, 2008)

There's also the issue of the mountain trolls that were used in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. They obviously weren't hindered in any way by the sun...but, it seems that JRRT admits to not knowing everything there is to know about trolls. 

He states in the his Letters, # 153, to be exact, that the crude workmanship of Morgoth, which meant that the stone-trolls couldn't abide sunlight, didn't necessarily apply to other types of trolls.

There are many scandanavian legends about trolls, some of which say they can come out in sunlight, others, that it weakens them or that they can't stand it at all. I'm quite sure this was but one of many instances where he pulled from scandanavian sources.


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## Bucky (Aug 20, 2008)

There is also the issue of the mountain trolls that were used in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. They obviously weren't hindered in any way by the sun...

*Yes, mountain-trolls....

Good point. It's easy to assume they are Olog-Hai.
I always assumed that the 'darkness' laid down by Sauron protected them.*


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