# complicated topics on The Tolkien Forum



## Lady_of_Gondor (Dec 15, 2003)

I am proud to say that I am a huge fan of JRR Tolkien. I have read The Lord of the Rings three times, and the Similarillion once. I know that doesn't compare to some of the Tolkien experts that exist here at the tolkienforum.com. Nevertheless, I hold to my statement. 

I also have to admit, however, that I am a very busy college student, and making time for my old friend, The Lord of the Rings, isn't as easy as it used to be. I often come to the tolkienforum to bone up on everything. I used to enjoy reading the threads here, and sometimes even responding to them. As time has progressed, though, I find that I cannot keep up here at the tolkien forum. So many people here have read the commentary works and side notes that the topics being discussed in the books section are so complicated, one would hardly know that we are talking about the books at all. When we get into the nitty gritty of lineages and languages, I tend to get very lost.

You are probably all wondering what the point of my post here is. I am not making a motion to change much. I realize that the tolkien forum is a place where people who enjoy studying his work come to discuss all the details that they so enjoy. I simply ask that we try not to complicate threads that are meant for the simpler crowd. I cannot give you a concrete example. All I can say is that it seems that every time I read a thread, somebody makes some reference to "The Book of Lost Tales" or "The History of Middle Earth Series." That is great in its place. However, if we are just discussing who we think the most beautiful woman in Middle Earth is (not a direct reference), its unnecessary. Please take this into consideration.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 16, 2003)

Sorry you feel that way, but the majority of threads is not 'flooded' with complex Tolkien quotes, but is simple discussion of the books. And if someone has some insight to provide from a source not many people have read (The HoME, The Letters), even if it's in a thread as straightforward as 'Who is the most beautiful woman in Middle-Earth', they certainly shouldn't have any qualms about posting therein.


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Dec 16, 2003)

I think you are right. Last night, when I posted this thread, I was tired, and a bit frustrated after reading a few threads that were somewhat hard to follow. I guess my point wasn't that I think that people shouldn't be entitled to discuss what they want to here. Now that I think of it, I don't know that I had a strong point to begin with. I was just frustrated.


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## Ithrynluin (Dec 16, 2003)

Every one of us gets frustrated from time to time, so that is perfectly understandable.

If you have any questions or doubts, feel free to ask.

And enjoy posting here at the Tolkien forum!


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## Eledhwen (Dec 16, 2003)

I know how Lady of Gondor feels. I have had to bow out of some threads because the discussion got beyond my level of study. I just click up a level and looked for a discussion with someone at my level. 

There is so much Tolkien material available; HoME is ten books, and they are just the background stuff. Even what I've read I've forgotten some of, and I have a life to lead and a household to maintain as well as plonking on the settee with a good JRRT (or other) book.


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## Arvedui (Dec 16, 2003)

Excuse me, but HoME is actually 13 books. The thirteenth is an index to the twelve others, so that don't really count. 

(I guess I just proved your point about 'clever' members, didn't I...)


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## Eledhwen (Dec 16, 2003)

Smartypants! I think I have also proved my inability to retain facts and trivia that don't excite me. I have read Morgoth's Ring which refers several times to the following volumes; I probably just picked 10 out of the air. My lack of enthusiasm for such figures amuses my husband, who has a BSc1 in Maths.


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## Úlairi (Dec 16, 2003)

What Eledwhen has said is perfect, if a thread is too complex for you, than don't participate. I was banned of here some one and a half years ago, and I was one of those members that got into 'heady' discussion. However, now that I have come back on, I have to read everything again, and granted, it's very frustrating trying to get back to my former level of T-knowledge. Sometimes I just give it up when I'm not in the mood. But sometimes I go to threads that I do not know much about, and I recall some facts that I remember, and in some cases I help others who actually have more T-knowledge than I do. You've got to remember that you just don't need T-knowledge to participate in complex threads, you also need a fairly good level of intellect. Logical deductions and so on and so forth. That is why I can participate in some threads that I don't know much about, I read the thread, and make logical deductions of my own, and sometimes they can be very helpful to discussion. Here's an example. I knew nothing about this thread. Of course, I acknowledge the fact that it is a much simpler thread, but it is an example nevertheless.

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14201


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Dec 17, 2003)

I hope you aren't implying that I dont have logic or deductive reasoning skills, because I certaily do. I have learned a lot from the Tolkien Forum, and I am grateful for that. Some of you have also said that you think that if I don't understand something that I should bow out. I guess it is just frustrating to have to bow out of seventy percent of the threads that I read here because I havent read unfinished tales, or because I don't understand who Fingolfin's great great great grandfather was and why that is important to the survival of the Elven race, or something like that (btw, I do realize that was just a run on sentence, but it is 2AM, and grammar is not something I particularly care about right now). I don't like to bow out of everything, thats all.


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## Niniel (Dec 17, 2003)

I know what you mean, I often feel the same. I just don't have time to read all the books (been stuck in HOME 10 for 6 months) or to spens hours reading all these enormous threads. But I realize that other people do have that time and look to have in-depth discussions, so I just let them and only participate in discussions that I have time to read because they're short or don't involve much checking of books.


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Dec 17, 2003)

Here is my official apology. I know that a lot of people here do have time to do the extra reading, and therefore, they have a right to discuss what they have read. I may not understand everything, but I realize now that I dont have to participate in it. The intent of this thread was not to put down those who like to talk about complex issues in Lord of the Rings, because I love to talk about those things as well. I often find myself a little bewildered here in a place where I used to be able to be an active participant. I think that is the only reason why I put this thread here. I now realize there was no point because people have a right to discuss whatever. But thank you for your helpful comments.


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## Arvedui (Dec 17, 2003)

No need to appologize.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and if they hav thoughts on how this forum is developing, then the more entitled they are. Even if I at some instance disagree with you (which I haven't said that I do  ), I still read your opinion. And it is taken seriously. Not only by me, but also by a lot of others.


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## Úlairi (Dec 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lady_of_Gondor _
> *I hope you aren't implying that I dont have logic or deductive reasoning skills, because I certaily do. I have learned a lot from the Tolkien Forum, and I am grateful for that. Some of you have also said that you think that if I don't understand something that I should bow out. I guess it is just frustrating to have to bow out of seventy percent of the threads that I read here because I havent read unfinished tales, or because I don't understand who Fingolfin's great great great grandfather was and why that is important to the survival of the Elven race, or something like that (btw, I do realize that was just a run on sentence, but it is 2AM, and grammar is not something I particularly care about right now). I don't like to bow out of everything, thats all. *



I never implied that at all! Why does everyone on this board take me the wrong way!? All I'm saying is if you want to participate in a complex thread, and you have no knowledge, read the thread carefully and look for things that others might not have picked up! Sheesh!


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## Eledhwen (Dec 18, 2003)

I suspect that this thread has been helpful to a few people, not just Lady_of_Gondor.


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## Úlairi (Dec 18, 2003)

I should hope so!


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