# Could it be posible that ERU = TOLKIEN ?



## fëanáro (Jan 24, 2002)

Im going to quote the beginning of the Valaquenta:


"In the beginning Eru, the One, who in the Elvish tongue is named Ilúvatar, made the Ainur of his thought; and they made a great Music before him. In this Music the World was begun; for Ilúvatar made visible the song of the Ainur, and they beheld it as a light in the darkness. And many among them became enamoured of its beauty, and of its history which they saw beginning and unfolding as in a vision. Therefore Ilúvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Eä."

I was just thinking how deep the simarillion could be like many people say it is. And it came to my head the idea that maybe Eru would be Tolkien himself, everything came out of his thought. Eä came out of the Ainur, whom were part or came out of Eru´s thought who made also his Children (elves and men). I know it is maybe a silly idea but not impossible. Wanted to know what you thought about it.


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## Mormegil (Jan 24, 2002)

Of course Tolkien = Eru.
Tolkien created the whole world that ME is in. If he hadn't thought it up and created it then no one would have found it.


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## Ancalagon (Jan 24, 2002)

I don't believe Tolkien saw himself as Eru at all. Although he created this realm he saw himself only as a vessel for depicting a tale. Tolkien believed in the singularity of each character he created; each had their own purpose, vision and role. He sought to place each character in his or her own place within this fable. If anything, Tolkien would have felt more akin to Beren than Eru. Tolkien would not have envisaged himself as the Creator, for he would not have placed himself above all in his own world. His own version of events was like that of a scribe, not a creator.


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## Feanor (Jan 25, 2002)

I always kind of thought Tolkein would've just been a simple pipe smoking, garden loving hobbit!


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## Curufinwe (Jan 26, 2002)

Most definately Tolkien was Eru, 12 Thoughts came to his head which sounds most like he was Eru to me.


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## Ragnarok (Jan 26, 2002)

Think about it: 

Tolkien --> Creator --> Eru = Creator = Tolkien

I thought this made some sense, well, in my crazy mind it does.


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## Lord Melkor (Jan 27, 2002)

No! Tolkien was a devoted Christian! 
Eru=Christian God, I Melkor=Satan!


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## Curufinwe (Jan 29, 2002)

Yes God = Eru and Melkor =Satan but Tolkien most inteded himself to be god.


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## Ancalagon (Jan 29, 2002)

So are you all telling me that Tolkien, a devout Christian, beleived himself to be a creator, a self-styled God of his own imaginary creation? Tolkien does not beleive himself to be anything other than who he actually is; a christian writer who wrote a very special mythology for England and a devoted husband and father.

Eru is the Creator within Middle-Earth, Not Tolkien, if you understand this you will understand his role in writing this work. If you think he models Eru on his own true God, then so be it. But rest assured Tolkien does not see himself as Eru, nor does he model himself as a creator in place of his own God. That in iteself would be blasphemous surely????


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## Merry (Jan 30, 2002)

I agree, look at the downfall of mythical Melkor and the real life Devil, both aspired to be like God and have the glory for himself and stand alone in place of their creator. Surely Tolkein (as a Christian) would not want to glorify himself by making himself a god, even in mythical form.


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## fëanáro (Jan 30, 2002)

I don´t see why not?
If I created something with my effort, my own hands, my own creativity, nobody helped me I would glorify myself as the Creator of what I have made. 
Remember Tolkien created imaginary characters not real living creatures.


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## Gwaihir (Jan 30, 2002)

Sorry folks, but that some authors might see themselves as the "god" of their creations does not mean that Tolkien did. I feel justified in asserting that he would find such a suggestion disturbing, and would very strongly disagree.

There are some excellent quotes in the Letters, which I do not have here at work, so I'll have to get back to you with the quotes. Let's just say that his religious beliefs would find such a comparison blasphemous, or, at the least, indications that the nature and role of Eru is not understood. Tolkien indicated that he found comments from reviewers that Gandalf's return was "Christ-like" troublesome, because it implied that he had the presumption to write such a thing. He was a great deal more humble in his beliefs about his work.

Interestingly he also did not beleive that he had "created something with my effort, my own hands, my own creativity, nobody helped me", as conjectured above. There's a wonderful letter on this that I will try to get quoted for you. He himself is struck by the fact that he does not know where some of his ideas come from. He also would use the term "sub-create" often, to indicate that he, like the characters in his story, lacked the power to truely "create"


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## fëanáro (Jan 30, 2002)

here gwaijir has told us that Tolkien did not see himself as the Creator Eru . we may at last know the truth.

I really look forward to see those quotes.


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