# Did they become immortal in the West?



## wonko (Mar 14, 2002)

*The Havens*

I was wondering if at the end of the Lord of the Rings when Frodo, Sam, Gimli and Bilbo all went off into the West did they all become immortal.


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## Greenwood (Mar 14, 2002)

There is at least one thread on this somewhere already, but the short answer is no. They are allowed to rest and heal for a while with the Valar, but they do eventually die there when they are ready.


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## Tao (Mar 14, 2002)

No...I wouldn't think so.

I never really thought that...


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## Niniel (Mar 15, 2002)

I'm sorry for you, but I read it as well (don't remember where). Frodo and Bilbo do not become Elves, so they are still going to die.
I do have another question connected with this: Arwen 'gives' Frodo leave to go to the West in her place (when Frodo leaves Minas Tirith), but Sam (nor Bilbo and Gimli for that matter) doesn't get any such permission and still goes to the Sea. What then is the point of Arwen giving this to Frodo, if apparently it is possible to go there without permission?


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## Sherri (Mar 15, 2002)

I think that she does but she doesn't tell him directly. didn't Frodo say something about how it isn't time for Sam to go yet but he will one day? Maybe he just told him that he could go then.


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## Merry (Mar 15, 2002)

No, the gift of immortality was never offered again. I think they benefited from prolonged life but that is all!

What a beautiful place to die in though!!


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## Greenwood (Mar 15, 2002)

> I do have another question connected with this: Arwen 'gives' Frodo leave to go to the West in her place (when Frodo leaves Minas Tirith), but Sam (nor Bilbo and Gimli for that matter) doesn't get any such permission and still goes to the Sea. What then is the point of Arwen giving this to Frodo, if apparently it is possible to go there without permission?



In one of his letters, Tolkien says that Bilbo is being taken by Gandalf so Gandalf will be able to speak for him when they arrive in the West. I would presume that Gandalf would also then be able to intercede on Sam's behave (as Sam wa a Ringbearer) when Sam arrives and similarly for Gimli as a member of the Fellowship when Gimli arrives.


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## Wood Elf (Mar 15, 2002)

Yeah, I wondered that too, how could Gimli and Sam and Bilbo go? Frodo is obvious. Well, maybe I can answer my own question! Sam, Bilbo, and Frodo all bore the Ring for a certain amount of time, (Sam had the shortest time) maybe that is why those three could go over, because they all bore the Ring. But why would Gimli be allowed to go over? Maybe because Legolas invited him, and pleaded with the Valar? Hmm, Merry and Pip didn't pass over, and they didn't posess the Ring for any amount of time, but neither did Gimli, and he was allowed to go. Hmm, Dwarf stow-away?


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## wonko (Mar 15, 2002)

hey, thanks for clearing that up for me... maybe part of the reason Gimli got to go is that he had the favor of Galadriel, who was a ring bearer and probably had a lot of influence with the valar


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## Ståle (Mar 15, 2002)

Gimlis friendship with Legolas(and Galadriel, to a lesser degree) was probably the deciding reasons. But also remember at the time Legolas and Gimli went over the sea, Aragorn had just passed away(whereas Merry and Pippin parked their slippers about 80 years earlier). Most probably Gimli went because he didn't want to die in Middle-Earth alone.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ståle _
> *Gimlis friendship with Legolas(and Galadriel, to a lesser degree) was probably the deciding reasons. But also remember at the time Legolas and Gimli went over the sea, Aragorn had just passed away(whereas Merry and Pippin parked their slippers about 80 years earlier). Most probably Gimli went because he didn't want to die in Middle-Earth alone. *




Yes that is right. Gimli was aloud to go for his love to the lady Galadriel.


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## Hama (Mar 18, 2002)

However, Valinor is the undying land, which is why it was banned for any of the Numenoreans to go there, remember. I think that the Valar give Bilbo, Frodo and Sam leave to enter as they are ring-bearers, and Gimli because of his favor with Galadriel (look at the appendix B of LotR). However, as it is the undying land, and only one individual has died a 'natural death' there: Feanor's mother, Miriel, I believe that they live eternally, although I do not think they are numbered among the elves.


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## Úlairi (Mar 18, 2002)

Here's a theory. The Numenorean Kings in a way, gave up their life when they believed that they were ready to die, so, perhaps Frodo and company could choose when they wanted to die i.e. living to 600, 700?


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