# How did Sauron gain power by making the ring?



## Beorn (Jun 21, 2003)

How did Sauron gain power by making the ring? He had X amount of power to begin with. Then he put part of it into the ring. When he put on the ring...he had _more_ power. How?

My hypothesis is that since his power was based in the unembodied spirit, he only had so much power in the incarnate world. When he poured his power into a physical object, his power over the physical world increased.

So, whaddya think?


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## Celebthôl (Jun 21, 2003)

I guess that he had the power within him to pass out into the world, but it wasnt his directly so he couldnt use it as he wanted, so he passed it into the physical (as you have said) and it became usable by him, though his spirit had lost a lot of its power into the ring...does this make sence?


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## BlackCaptain (Jun 21, 2003)

I've always thought of the Ring being a sort of a way-point and channeler of his power. Lets say he put half of his power into it... He then wanted to influence the Numenoreans to wage war upon the West, which would require his other half... If he used his Ring, it would sort of be a way of mentaly and magicaly (so to speak) calm and tranqualize his mind. 

Plus, I think this might be what you were saying but I'm not sure, a Maia can only have so much power when they're put in a body. I think Olorin's power was decreased when he was put in the body of Gandalf. Sauron possibly put some of his reserved spirit power into the Ring.


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## YayGollum (Jun 21, 2003)

Why would anyone think that Sauron gained power by making the One Ring? Doesn't make much sense to me. At least not when he first made the thing. When did he make the thing? Well, it was before he started losing power like Mel. So the thing would help him out more than it used to since it would be more like adding two thirds of a bunch of power to a guy with only one fourth of what he would normally have. If he wore the thing before he started losing power, it would be like adding one half to the other. I hope that made sense. oh well. I don't think Sauron made the One Ring to get more power. He did it so he could come back if his body was destroyed.


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## Rangerdave (Jun 21, 2003)

I am a fan of the theory that the Ring acts as a lens to focus Sauron's will.

RD


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## Feanorian (Jun 21, 2003)

I think the "spirits" in the Rings of Power acted to someones X amount of power as a magnifying glass does to something when you look at it. Thus someone with less power (e.g. Frodo, Bilbo, Gollum, etc) would have their powers increased to their greatest extents which might only be invisibility while a super-powerful being like Sauron or Gandalf would have their powers increased the same amount according to their powers.


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## Glomund (Jun 22, 2003)

The ring was made to focus Saurons power over the other rings and their wielders, cause he wanted to control the elves. Beorn, when Sauron forged the one he was still a physical being, maybe not origianaly, but like Melian, having possessed physical form for so long, he had lost the desire, if not the ability, to abandon it voluntarily, so I have to disagree with that part of your theory. I guess the ring would not have increased his power at first, only focused it, a crude analogy is Saurons power was like a lantern. when lit "used" it may illuminate or control a circle 50ft in diameter, but if you place reflectors on 3 sides "the ring', the power goes much further and with more intensity, focused in one direction. the ring was made to focus Sauron's general power to dominate others to dominate specific things, the other rings, which Sauron knew the secrets of, so he should know how to do this; and their holders, that was its power. It worked with men later, Dwarves natures bent it to a different focus, not power to possess others, but a desire to possess wealth.understandable since Aule, the greatest of Saurons "people" made them"the dwarves", and Sauron could not exert more influence on a whole creation than his better. And the one on it's own would dominate it's holder, even a "great", like Gandalf or Elrond.
Finally, after Sauron lost the ring, and his body, it's recovery would increase his power above what it had fallen to, putting it almost to what it had been in the beginning. The reason this would have given him certain victory was that the elves had declined, many leaving middle earth and the rest "fading" as men began to dominate, so there was no way to stop Saurons armies backed up by his full power. I hope I explained myself clearly, and apologise for the length


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## Eriol (Jun 22, 2003)

Glomund, I don't think your answer is lengthy, though paragraphs wouldn't hurt...



But I agree. We must remember that even if the One Ring were never made, the other Rings were powerful artifacts by themselves. So when Sauron wielded the One, he was actually harnessing the power he himself had put into it PLUS the intrinsic power of ALL the other rings. 

A lot of power.


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## Grond (Jun 23, 2003)

I agree very much with Eriol. Celebrimbor and the remaining Noldoran Elves were great in power by their own right. (Remember Glorfindel (not Fingolfin) in all his other worldly glory when he faced the Ring Wraiths at the Fords of Bruinen). They harnassed vast amounts of their own energy and bestowed these powers into the Rings of Power (the Great Rings and the Lessor Rings.) Sauron's intent was likely to focus his power to control the power of the others. He thought he would be able then to control both user and the power of all the other Rings... but was only able to utilize the nine he gave to man. The Elves having enough fortitude to take theirs off and hide them and the Dwarves being too sturdy to come under Sauron's sway.


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## Arvedui (Jun 24, 2003)

Fingolfin, Grond?
Or Glorfindel ?.....


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## Grond (Jun 24, 2003)

LOL! Of course I meant Glorfindel.  Edited and corrected.


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## Arvedui (Jun 24, 2003)

Would have been a great help in those times, though.
Fingolfin, I mean.

To stray back to the topic, I think RD's theory combined with Eriol's sound pretty close to what I have always imagined.


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## jimmyboy (Jun 27, 2003)

As others have already said, Sauron's purpose in creating the one ring was to control all who possessed the other rings. Hence the rings were given to the lords of the three races. If he can control their lords and leaders, then he would control their realms. To see more clearly the answer to the question, ask yourself "Who is the Lord of the Rings? And why is he called that?" 

Also remember what is written on the one ring, which in part says: "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them". _That_ is why Sauron created the ring, and that's how it was supposed to give him greater power. 


> but was only able to utilize the nine he gave to man. The Elves having enough fortitude to take theirs off and hide them and the Dwarves being too sturdy to come under Sauron's sway.


Hmm. I seem to remember in the FOTR that it says that Sauron had already acquired three of the Dwarves' rings, and that if he re-acquired the One, that even the Elves' rings would be under his control. Am I imagining this...?

The elves did not take off and hide their rings. Elrond had one and wore it, Galadriel had one and she wore it, and Cirdan gave his to Gandalf, who, I believe, also wore and used it. It was partly by the power of these rings that the realms of the elf lords and ladies were preserved up to the time of the War of the Ring.


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## Eriol (Jun 27, 2003)

The Elves took off their rings _when Sauron put the One on_, in the Second Age. That is why Sauron waged war against Eregion and killed Celebrimbor -- his main purpose was to get the Elven Rings (and the other Rings as well, but the Three were by far the most powerful). Celebrimbor outsmarted him and had sent the Three away by that time.

The Elves did not wear the Three again until Sauron's First Fall, and the disappearance of the One. It is only after that (i.e., in the Third Age) that the Three were free to act.

Sorry, no quotes right now.

The Three were hidden while Sauron was "on the loose"; they were only used again after his First Defeat.


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## Grond (Jun 27, 2003)

> _from The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age_
> But the Elves were not so lightly to be caught. As soon as Sauron set the One Ring upon his finger they were aware of him; and they knew him, and perceived that he would be master of them, and of all that they wrought. *Then in anger and fear they took off their rings.* But he, finding that he was betrayed and that the Elves were not deceived, was filled with wrath; and he came against them with open war, demanding that all the rings should be delivered to him. since the Elven-smiths could not have attained to their making without his lore and counsel. But the Elves fled from him; three of their rings they saved, and bore them away, and hid them.
> 
> Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world. But Sauron could not discover them, for they were given into the hands of the Wise, who concealed them and never again used them openly while Sauron kept the Ruling Ring. Therefore the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron had never touched them; yet they also were subject to the One.


There is more info in Unfinished Tales, Of Celeborn & Galadriel.


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## jimmyboy (Jun 27, 2003)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that stuff. I was thinking about the later 3rd Age times, when Sauron was looking for his One ring. Thanks for the clarifications, guys.


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## Dwimmerlaik (Jul 7, 2003)

Alway's ring's isn't it?
How did Sauron gain power by making the ring?

Sauron did NOT gain power by the forging of his own master ring.
He did however aid in the skill and craft of the three ring's,Sauron for all his magnamity and skill of the the time did not have control over the elven ring's.
He did posess sufficient power to sunder varous rings to men and dwarfs.Each ring it should be noted was suffiicient to subducate it's citizen's/subject's to their will.
By the time of the loss of the ruling ring,only the nine gifted to men were still known to be under Sauron's control,Dwarf's whom were largely independant and thus not easily controlled,were variously destroyed and their ring's recovered by chance.

Sauron did devolve a large exent of his power to the ring that would control all elvish,dwarf and manly rings.Whilst Sauron undoubtably possesed the rings of men and probably some of the dwarf riings,his power was less because of these facts.

As a Maia his power was beyond question,even that of Feanor.

And as a power,the power's of Valinor were not willing to check,especially considering their last campaign in in the second age,the maia power of Sauron.It was ME's responsibility to save itself.


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## Grond (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dwimmerlaik _
> *Alway's ring's isn't it?
> How did Sauron gain power by making the ring?
> 
> ...


 Power is such a relative thing! I seem to remember Huan besting Sauron and Luthien herself bested the great Melkor with a sleeping spell. Sauron was a great power who intended to be greater still by his plot to subjugate the Elvish Rings of Power to his will. 

Let us not forget that all of the 19 Rings of Power (the 3, the 7 and the 9) were all Elvish in their origin. The Ruling Ring was meant to subjugate Elves and not Men nor Dwarves in the beginning. It was only after Sauron learned that the Elves were able to remove the Rings and thus, not be under his evil sway, that Sauron declared war on the Elves of Eregion and wrested the 7 and the 9 from Celebrimbor. It was later, that he gave the 9 and the 7 to the dwarves (although Durin always claimed his Ring came directly from Celebrimbor there is no proof of that one way or the other.)


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## Dwimmerlaik (Jul 9, 2003)

Dear Grond,
My apologies,you are indeed correct that Sauron's initial,if only focus of the time,were the elves.
It shouldn't be assumed that men and dwarfs were far from his thoughts however,and later events would prove this.


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