# Aragorn's count?



## HLGStrider (Jan 17, 2004)

We all know that Gimli and Legolas vied for the highest kill number. . .but what if Aragorn had been in the contest? How many did he kill? Who would've won then?

I think Aragorn would've won. . .but that's just me.


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## Elessar II (Jan 17, 2004)

I agree with you, Aragorn would have won it hands down. He had to have killed at least a hundred orcs (or so it seemed). But off topic, it seems to me that Legolas and Gimli's count was really _low_. I mean, what's 40 orcs apeice when you're facing several thousand?


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## arisen pheonix (Jan 17, 2004)

a low count....?....they were using mid evil weapons not machine guns


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## Sarde (Jan 17, 2004)

I suppose you mean medieval weapons  They're pretty evil too, anyway


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## Elessar II (Jan 17, 2004)

> a low count....?....they were using mid evil weapons not machine guns



What!?! Medieval weapons? You've got to be kidding me, I thought they were using light sabers and bazookas!  

But, seriously, consider how long they were fighting, and add to that the fact that Legolas and Gimli are supposedly two of the best fighters at Helms Deep, and you also have to consider the enormous amount of orcs that were attacking. 


"Two?" said Legolas. 'I have done better, though now I must grope for spent arrows; all mine are gone. Yet I make my tale twenty at the least. But that is only a few leaves in a forest.'


So, in Legolas' first engagement we see that he killed twenty orcs at least, and he admits that the amount is nothing compared to what's left! 
Alright, I think you will all agree that it is safe to say that the skirmish took maybe half an hour at the very most. 
Yet there was at the very least, 6 hours of battle in all, from midnight until a while after daybreak. And Legolas killed a total of 41 orcs. That's about 6.83 orcs an hour. Which means that it took Legolas approximately 8-10 minutes to kill one orc. I don't know, but an orc every 600 seconds doesn't seem like much to me, especially considering how many orcs were swarming around Helms Deep. 

OK, just for the fun of it, let's do a little scenario. We know that in Legolas' first engagement which took maybe half an hour at the most, he kills twenty orcs. ( Now we are assuming for the sake of the scenario that the only weapon Legolas uses in this battle is his bow.)
Then let's just say it takes him another half hour to restock his ammo, either by borrowing someone elses arrows or finding his own. All in all, he is able to get twenty more arrows.
After reloading his quiver, Legolas fires away for another half hour until his arrows run out again. This time only half of his shots count, killing ten orcs and making his total come to thirty. 
Then another half hour goes by of arrow searching and finally his quiver is replenished with another twenty arrows, but the same thing happens, he is only able to make 50 percent of his shots count (which for an elf like Legolas is pretty pathetic). If the pattern continued in this way, he would have killed 70 orcs! Now, that's almost twice the amount he actually killed at Helms Deep. And I think you will all agree that this is a _very_ conservative scenario!

I know, I know, Tolkien wrote this, it's in the book, etc, etc, and that's fine, really. It's just the fact that in the whole series of books from FOTR to ROTK, this was the only thing that bugged me: that Gimli's and Legolas' count was so small. 
These guys are supposed to be two of the best warriors in the fight against Sauron for crying out loud!
And all they manage to do at Helm's Deep is kill a lousy 83 orcs between them.
Legolas should have killed at least that many by himself!
Whew!!! Sorry, but it sure felt good to get that off my chest!


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## BlackCaptain (Jan 17, 2004)

Yeah, 40 might seem like a little to people who watch the movies, because hey! In the movies you only need to hit an orcs leg or punch him once and he's dead! Of course that's saying that all the other orcs make a circle around you and politely wait their turn to die like in the movies... 

Anywhoo Aragorn would've won. Eomer would've beaten Legolas and Gimli as well...


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## Niniel (Jan 17, 2004)

I agree with you Elessar, that 41 is a really low count for Legolas. If he had killed 20 Orcs in the first half hour, he must have been able to keep up that pace during the rest of the battle, or even if he had killed only 10 per half hour during the rest of the battle he would have killed far more that 41 Orcs. I don't think finding arrows was so hard; there being thousands of Orcs, they would have shot thousands of arrows at Helm's Deep and a lot of them would be reuseable for Legolas. Even if Orc- arrows were of less quality than Legolas' own, he would have known how to use them.
But on topic, I think Aragorn and Legolas would have killed about the same amount of Orcs.


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## Elessar II (Jan 17, 2004)

I'm glad _someone_ agrees with me.  
Yea, I agree that the arrow finding probably wasn't an issue, but it was the only comeback I could think of anyone using.
On topic, I've changed my mind, I think it would have been a close race between all three ( although, of course, they should have killed more  ).
Actually, I was surprised that Gimli won the contest considering that bows and arrows are usually much more effective than axes (not to mention how much easier it is to kill your opponent from 200 ft away). Of course, Gimli was forced into the cave with Eomer where there might have been more orcs to slay.


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## HLGStrider (Jan 17, 2004)

I did feel it was a little low, but there are two possible reasons for this:

A. They were going for _exact_ count. You had to see the orc fall and make sure he doesn't get up again. Therefore, Legolas, shooting at Orcs two hundred feet away, may have had a higher count. He wouldn't count any Orc if he suspected he'd only wounded it. 
B. The whole time wasn't straight fighting. 

In the book, you have Aragorn standing on the wall. Aragorn running up the stairs and tripping. . .it's obvious that they spend sometime resting and hunkering down between attacks or waves.


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## Starbrow (Jan 22, 2004)

I imagine that arrows are most effective when you are shooting from a height into a crowd. However, once the orcs stormed the wall, Legolas wouldn't have been able to use the bow, but would've had to fight with another weapon. Nor will every shot with an arrow be lethal. Think how many arrows it took to bring Boromir down. 

WOW! this is my 100th post. Can you believe it?


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## BlackCaptain (Jan 22, 2004)

It takes one arrow to bring a person down... There were just 3 in Boromir...

Anyways Legolas was an archer, and his pace was highest when his archery was effective, then he slowed down in handn to hand combat. 

Gimli was going slow (actualy, not at all) until they had Hand to Hand combat, then he flew. Game of catch up pretty much I think. 

Now if you're a ranger, and can shoot a bow skillfully and wield a sword skillfully then you're sort of the whole package. Kind of like the video game actualy...ahahaa


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## Saucy (Jan 22, 2004)

i think aragorn was above such games...gd thing too cause it was funny but sorta odd of PJ to add that...

his would of been highest though i agree


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## Niniel (Jan 23, 2004)

It wasn't added by PJ, it's in the book. But I think that Tolkien thought it wouldn't look kingly enough if he had Aragorn join the match.


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## jimmyboy (Jan 30, 2004)

I imagine Aragorn's an excellent archer, yet he didn't use his bow in the books or the movies, IIRC, except in the FOTR movie when they were trying to escape from Moria. We all know he's extremely dangerous with a sword, and is very strong and with exceptional stamina. Hence, I'd say he's win the contest.

As for Legolas and Gimli's game, maybe it's not "kingly" enough for the like of Aragorn, but really what else would you expect two warriors to do when they're basically just following the leader, and killing orcs when there's a battle? Seems pretty natural a thing to do between good friends.


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## Ireth Telrúnya (Jan 30, 2004)

You know what? Aragorn is my fav in many ways in the films, but I voted for Legolas since he's an elf and elves are superior race to humans. He even killed one oliphaunt!


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## jimmyboy (Jan 31, 2004)

> He even killed one oliphaunt!


Movie-Legolas did that. Book-Legolas did not.


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