# Gandalf in Dol Guldur?



## Legolas3363 (Mar 1, 2003)

At the end of the Silmarillion in the rings of power and the third age it talks about Gandalf in Dol Guldur it says "he discovers the truth of his fears, and escaped"
I was just wondering if gandalf actually came in contact with sauron or he just went there stealth like?


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## Kahmûl (Mar 1, 2003)

I think Gandalf must have went in stealthily (if even a word) until he found Thrain and then i think he would have revealed himself to him but i dont think he came in contact with Sauron or he would have been captured since Sauron is a graeter spirit than Gandalf.


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## Legolas3363 (Mar 1, 2003)

thank you kahmul


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## Gil-Galad (Mar 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kahmul _
> *I think Gandalf must have went in stealthily (if even a word) until he found Thrain and then i think he would have revealed himself to him but i dont think he came in contact with Sauron or he would have been captured since Sauron is a graeter spirit than Gandalf. *


Well,I don't think Sauron was more powerful than Gandalf.The problem was that Gandalf and the other Istari were not allowed to show their real power.The had to help people only with "convetional"methods.We should also have in mind that Sauron lost some of his powers with the destruction of Numenor and the lost of the ring.So I think at that time Sauron wsa not able to oppose Gandalf.Gandalf didn't want to meet Sauron cause that would cause a fight between them and Olorin was not allowed to fight.


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## Glomund (Mar 3, 2003)

Gandalf would have been allowed to fight if he needed to defend himself, as he did with the Balrog. Sauron was, in my opinion, still more powerful than Gandalf. So he could not have directly encountered Sauron. And if you do not believe that Sauron was greater, remember he had a fortress full of cronies "orcses shrieking",. So he must have snuck in, possibly or probably using his power to disguise himself. Gandalf could use his powers to fight and support the peoples of Middle Earth, but he could not use them to build up a force like Saruman did


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## Ithrynluin (Mar 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Glomund _
> *Gandalf could use his powers to fight and support the peoples of Middle Earth, but he could not use them to build up a force like Saruman did *



I think he could he could have done that if he wanted to, but he stayed true to his mission.


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## Eriol (Mar 6, 2003)

> I am Gandalf the White, but the Black is mightier still



Note that this statement was made after Gandalf's death and return as the White, when his power was unveiled. Also, there is the Istari essay on UT that says that Olórin did not want to come because he was afraid of Sauron.

I don't think Gandalf could ever fight Sauron. I think he would have a tough time facing the Witch-King... At least he thought so. And the Witch-King did not sound as if he were afraid of Gandalf at the Gates of Minas Tirith.


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## redline2200 (Mar 6, 2003)

that's true, but about the Dol Guldur thing, we must remember that Sauron's power was, if you will, "weak" at the time. I mean he had no real forces or armies (besides the Nazgul), and he wasn't in his stronghold or Barad-dur, and he was just beginning to take shape again so he hadn't gained all of his power. I think if Gandalf could have ever stood a chance against Sauron then it would have been then.


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## Eriol (Mar 6, 2003)

That's a good point. But Olórin was afraid even when Sauron was "a shadow", before he took form.

I always thought Sauron's "weakness" in this period was something of a feint, to dissuade the Council and gain time for his plans to ripe. This would mean that his personal strength was all right, but that he needed time to build armies and reestablish connections with his worshippers in the South and East. I could be wrong though.


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## Gil-Galad (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *I think he could he could have done that if he wanted to, but he stayed true to his mission. *


Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ithrynluin we are again on same opinion........unbelievable,isn't it?


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## Celebithil (Mar 8, 2003)

Was Olorin's "power" lessened when he was put into a mortal type body and became Gandalf? I would think a Maiar would be stronger as a pure Maiar not being succeptable to hunger and such.


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## Beor (Mar 23, 2003)

There are two sub-threads here.

My understanding is that Gandalf entered Dol Gildur which was then run by a mysterious wizard (who Gandalf did suspect, correctly, of being Sauron but was not confirmed at the time). It was not mentioned as a fortress populated with Orcs and that would have been unwise, as then Sauron would have drawn too much attention to himself. However, Mirkwood, stretching away to the north, became more fell at that time with spiders becoming common.

Gandalf's purpose was, as I saw it, to advise, not to lead. Attempts by the Valar to directly intervene in Middle Earth had resulted in grief and tragedy, as free peoples reject outside help from powerful entities, being suspicious and mistrustful when used to prevent problems. Thus, Gandalf was set to assist and advise, being the limit of what the Valar saw as practicable.

Sauron was the Lieutenant of Melkor and one of the most powerful of his kind. However, the ring was fairly dormant when Gandalf entered Dol Gildur, and Sauron was not strong enough to openly declare himself or reoccupy Barad Dur. 

Had Gandalf fought and won over Sauron at such a time, the 'free peoples' may well have been suspicious and wondered about the Ring of Power, likely thinking that it was destroyed to reduce the power of the Elves remaining in Middle Earth or to prevent Men from assuming the greatness of Numenor. 

Regardless, fighting Sauron would not have resulted in destruction for Sauron, as his spirit was bound to the ring and until the ring appeared and was destroyed, Sauron would endure. Imprisonment was proven not to work, as the Numenoreans would testefy...


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