# Dragons, Giant Spiders, Balrogs, or Trolls?



## Ecthelion (Feb 6, 2003)

Which big bad creature do you think is the all round best, Dragons, Giant Spiders, Balrogs, or Trolls???


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## Anamatar IV (Feb 6, 2003)

The great worms of Morgoth.....with wings


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 6, 2003)

1.Balrogs 
2.Dragons
3.Spiders
4.Trolls (nothing special)


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## redline2200 (Feb 6, 2003)

I would definitely say dragons because of their immense power. I have always found it amazing that in The War of Wrath, when Morgoth finally released his dragons, that even the Valar could not withstand them right then and there. I'm not seeing any balrogs or trolls fend off the entire host of Valinor.


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## Aulë (Feb 6, 2003)

Yes, but balrogs or trolls can't be killed by one simple arrow.
eg, Smaug


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## Beleg (Feb 7, 2003)

Guess whoever killed Ecthelion would be a beast of immense power...what do you say Ecthelion?


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## balrog (Feb 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Anamatar IV _
> *The great worms of Morgoth.....with wings *



wings eh?....such a debate thus occurs!

if you are refering to balrogs of course!


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## Aulë (Feb 7, 2003)

Eh?
I thought that Anamatar was talking about Dragons...


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## balrog (Feb 7, 2003)

iwasn't sure if 'worms of Morgoth' did refer to balrogs....

ooops


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## Arvedui (Feb 7, 2003)

Dragons are mightier than even the Balrogs. Besides, Smaug was a lot cooler than the Balrog of Moria.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 7, 2003)

Balrogs don't need to use words to be cool. You keep your little worms Arvedui.


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## Ecthelion (Feb 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow _
> *Guess whoever killed Ecthelion would be a beast of immense power...what do you say Ecthelion? *



Yes that is true, but Ecthelion slew about 3 or 4 I think before killing and bieng killed by Gothmog, so it took more than one Balrog to kill him, but a Balrog did, in the end kill him so yes I guess they are of immense power.


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## Anamatar IV (Feb 7, 2003)

I was referring to Dragons...but not all of Morgoth's Dragons had wings.


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## Éomond (Feb 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Pippin_Took _
> *Yes, but balrogs or trolls can't be killed by one simple arrow.
> eg, Smaug *


Yes, but wasn't Smaug shot by the "Black arrow" or something?

I liked, um, well, here's my order:

1. Balrogs
2. Dragons
3. Giants Spiders
4. Trolls (I still like trolls alot, but, can't beat the other three)


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## Aulë (Feb 7, 2003)

I've always thought that the "Black Arrow" was just a normal arrow, painted black.
Bard was just lucky that the thrush informed him about Smaug's weak spot.


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## Beleg (Feb 7, 2003)

Actually Ecthelion i have always thought that the battle of Ecthelion and Gothmog was One to One. I think i'll confirm. Black Arrow was the last one in his bow otherwise it was a simple one.


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## Maeglin (Feb 7, 2003)

I voted for trolls, just cause there so dumb and funny to listen to. (Bert, Bill, and Tom)


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## Ecthelion (Feb 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow _
> *Actually Ecthelion i have always thought that the battle of Ecthelion and Gothmog was One to One. I think i'll confirm. Black Arrow was the last one in his bow otherwise it was a simple one. *



Yes Ecthelion and Gothmog did fight one on one, but before that Ecthelion killed 3 or 4 other Balrogs. I voted for Dragons, their just really cool, I guess no one likes Giant Spiders alot.........


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 7, 2003)

> Yes Ecthelion and Gothmog did fight one on one, but before that Ecthelion killed 3 or 4 other Balrogs.



Echtelion slew Gothmog and that was it. The way you say it...sounds like Balrogs are just regular cannon fodder.


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## Gil-Galad (Feb 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *1.Balrogs
> 2.Dragons
> 3.Spiders
> 4.Trolls (nothing special) *


...hm again on the same opinion.........something is happenning to me


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 7, 2003)

GG, maybe you're becoming me....?


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## Gil-Galad (Feb 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ithrynluin _
> *GG, maybe you're becoming me....? *


.....   .....I hate nightmares.Especially if I am you!


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## 33Peregrin (Feb 7, 2003)

I said Dragons. I just think they are the coolest. At least Tolkien's dragons are. I generally dislike all the dragonslaying stories (Except Farmer Giles of Ham) because they are so commom and are all the same. I just like how Tolkien's dragons are full of wit and cruelty. I think Balrogs are stronger, darker, and more powerful, but the dragons are my favorite. Smaug was one of my favorite characters in the Hobbit.


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 8, 2003)

Definatly dragons. Theres just somthin about them. cant put my finger on it


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## Gil-Galad (Feb 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MorgulKing _
> *Definatly dragons. Theres just somthin about them. cant put my finger on it *


 ]
I hope you don't like their smell.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 9, 2003)

I LOVE Balrogs!
They're so evil and scary!


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## Lantarion (Feb 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Arvedui_
> Dragons are mightier than even the Balrogs.


Noo no no no!  Balrogs, actually the _Valaraukar_, are Maiar. Dragons are just overgrown earthworms with wings, with petrol in their lungs.


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## Arvedui (Feb 11, 2003)

From David Day, "A Guide to Tolkien":


> The dark jewels of Morgoth's genius were the Great Worms called Dragons.


And furthermore:


> All Dragons were the embodiment of the chief evils of Men, Elves and dwarves, and so were great in their destruction of those races.



Of Balrogs, it says:


> Of all Melkor's creatures, only Dragons were greater in power.



One funny thing about Dragons though: The most famous ones were all killed by Men. Túrin slew Glauring, Eärendil slew Ancalagon and Bard slew Smaug.

And I know that David Day is NOT canon...


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## Lantarion (Feb 11, 2003)

Haha, I was hoping you would add a comment like that at the end. 
But good points; both that Mr. Day is not exactly an expert , and those quotes.


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## Arvedui (Feb 11, 2003)

Yeah, I thought you might like it


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## FoolOfATook (Feb 11, 2003)

You can also add Scatha to the list of dragons killed by men, since that Dragon met his end at the hands of Fram.


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## chrysophalax (Feb 11, 2003)

Dragons, of course....but then I'm expected to say that!

YayGollum has an interesting theory re: the Black Arrow of Bard. That it might possibly be one of the weapons forged by one of my favourite Elves, Eol. He seemed to specialize in black weaponry.


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 11, 2003)

How could that arrow possibly have reached Bard at the end of the 3rd Age, if it was forged by Eöl sometime in the 1st Age? I just can't see the connection. Or am I missing something?


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## Emowyn (Feb 11, 2003)

Aghh! Evil fire balrog....thing!


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## Turin (Feb 11, 2003)

If I had to be one I'd be a balrog. Or maybe a dragon. Something that is not easily destroyed.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 11, 2003)

Having recently re-read The Hobbit it MIGHT be feasible to think that Bard's arrow was forged by Eol.
True it would have had to survive the test of time, but Bard WAS directly descended from the long line of men that dwelt near the Lonely Mountain in the times of "old"...
Maybe it was an heirloom?


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## Ithrynluin (Feb 11, 2003)

Eöl lived alone in Nan Elmoth. After his death, who could have taken the arrow from his secluded and hidden dwelling in that entangled forest, before Beleriand sank under the waves? And then who could have brought it all the way to Rhovanion?
It all seems just a little bit too convenient and simple.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 11, 2003)

It's not impossible though, is it?

Things happen.

Anyway, I'm not saying I agree with the theory, just that it's not completley inconceivable.


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## mr underhill (Feb 12, 2003)

dragons....

but id rather be a balrog if only because id be smaller and more agile.. but only if balrogs have wings...

if they had no wings id be a dragon..


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## Turin (Feb 12, 2003)

I think theres a post about whether balrogs had wings in the Hall of Fire or another forum.


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## f0enix_rising (Feb 13, 2003)

I love the dragons! When Glaurung gives his speech to Turin at Nargothrond, I get shivers from his malice! They're cool, smart and tough. But, aren't dragons more of a Hobbit and Sil issue, and not LoTR?

BTW, how do you get the special characters so I can spell Turin's name correctly?


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## DurinLongBeard (Feb 13, 2003)

Giant Spiders blow the competition out of the water! Sure balrogs, dragons, and trolls are WAY stronger but that doesn't matter. "Stinging" an army of Giant Spiders would be incredibly cool! Props to Bilbo for kicking their...(i don't think i am allowed to say the desired teminology)... butts


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## Arvedui (Feb 13, 2003)

Well, Ungoliant (the greatest spider ever) flew before the Balrogs, and those are only second to Dragons, so.....


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 14, 2003)

I still like Balrogs...
Or rather Balrog slayers. 
The sexy beasts!


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## YayGollum (Feb 15, 2003)

I voted for trolls just because of those super cool dudes from The Hobbit. 

Anyways, I just came to defend my theory. It is superly obviously possible for some black arrow of Eol's to have gotten stuck in Smaug. Eol was friends with Dwarves. Eol's specialty was making crazy and scary black weapons. He could have given some Dwarves some of his weapons. Dwarves travel. Dwarves fight each other and probably steal all of the really cool stuff they get from victims. Eol had servants that could have wandered off somewhere with some of his stuff after he left. Lots of ways for some arrow to get to that crazy Bard dude. The arrow definitely seemed special in some way. He did talk to the thing and said that he always ended up keeping the thing for some reason. oh well. Maybe Bard's just crazy.


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## Turin (Feb 16, 2003)

Yeah how do you put the accent on the u in Turin? And what about the ^ on the u in Nazgul?


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## Ecthelion (Feb 16, 2003)

Well, I know there's alot of button combos that do the letters(I know none), but I know another way

Step 1: Go to Start, then to Programs
Step 2: Go to Accessories
Step 3: Under Accessories you'll find a program called 'System Tools', go to that and click the Character Map

The Character map has all the wierd accent marks and stuff so you can write Fëanor, Éomer, Nazgûl, and many many more names and places with accents!


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## *Lady Arwen* (Feb 16, 2003)

Dragons, I love dragons!


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## The Tall Hobbit (Feb 17, 2003)

Of the four choices in the poll, I'd have to choose Dragons, but my favorite big Tolkien Creature is the "Watcher in the Water".


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 18, 2003)

The trolls were REALLY dumb.

I mean seriously...their names were like Burt, Tom, and Harry or something.

Those are NOT proper troll names.

And not only were they major wusses, they were also dumb.


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## YayGollum (Feb 18, 2003)

I think they were Burt, Tom, and William. Maybe not. How were they wusses? Anyways, they kind of have to be dumb. They're trolls. Not their fault. Too bad. I just liked them because they're so average joe-like. Not too many characters like that in LOTR type books. oh well. Evil Gandalf!


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 20, 2003)

Yes...Burt, Tom, and William.
William Huggins!

That's so NOT a troll name!!!!!!

It was their names that I hated. It just was WRONG.


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## Ecthelion (Feb 20, 2003)

If Bert, Tom, and William aren't Troll names then what are?


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 20, 2003)

Gragglebad, Horgwat, and Thrunkshag or something mean and garbly sounding like that.


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## Scatha (Feb 20, 2003)

I'd have to go for the dragons on this poll.

Magnificent creatures they are, too bad that I could only find four of them named in tolkien's works.

Would anyone care to give it a shot, what the names of these dragons are?


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## Ecthelion (Feb 20, 2003)

Smaug, Glaurung, and Ancalagon, hey does Scatha count as a dragon?


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 20, 2003)

Don't forget Lindy.


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Feb 20, 2003)

I picked Dragons because they are like the original fantasy bad guy! Timeless fear! Plus, I just think that Dragons are really cool!


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 20, 2003)

But Balrogs are like..immortal fire demons!


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## FoolOfATook (Feb 22, 2003)

Why wouldn't Scatha count as a dragon?


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## Goldberry (Feb 22, 2003)

I picked dragons as my favorite, and they are awesome. BUT, the 3 trolls in The Hobbit were the funniest! "Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey if it don't look like mutton again tomorrow!"


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## mirkwoodwarrior (Feb 22, 2003)

I also pick Dragons as my favorite.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 23, 2003)

HELL-OOO?

Immortal fire demons vs. large lizards that burn things?!?!

Fire demons sooo have the upper hand!!

GO BALROGS!!!

It all comes down to what you would less like to meet in a darkened mine.

I choose BALROGS!


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## Goldberry (Feb 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Wonko The Sane _
> *HELL-OOO?
> 
> Immortal fire demons vs. large lizards that burn things?!?!
> ...



You are toast either way!


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 23, 2003)

But it's so much easier to kill flesh and blood (a Dragon) than a FIRE DEMON!!!!

Hello...the thing is MADE OF FIRE!!!!! (And other things...but mainly he's on fire and stuff...)

He's SOO wicked!!!


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## Ecthelion (Feb 23, 2003)

Well now a day Balrogs wouldn't be scary, I give to you all the Fire Extinguisher!


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 23, 2003)

Right...sure...like THAT would extinquish a Balrog!!

A Balrog burns with UNHOLY fire!!! I doubt a fire extinguisher could douse it!!


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## Huan (Feb 23, 2003)

Dragons coz they just ARE the coolest.! Plus they feature in English mythology. I've always loved the sketchings of them that are in The Hobbit.


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## Wonko The Sane (Feb 23, 2003)

HOW CAN PEOPLE CHOOSE DRAGONS OVER IMMORTAL FIRE DEMONS??!?!?!?


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## Ecthelion (Feb 23, 2003)

Beacause Dragons are better!!!


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## Goldberry (Feb 25, 2003)

Dragons can be aesthetically pleasing. Balrogs are downright ugly. I'd rather be scared to death by a handsome monster than an ugly one.


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## HobbitFeet (Feb 25, 2003)

DRAGONS!!!

....Just because.


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## DurinLongBeard (Feb 25, 2003)

> HOW CAN PEOPLE CHOOSE DRAGONS OVER IMMORTAL FIRE DEMONS??!?!?!?





HOW CAN ANYONE CHOOSE DRAGONS OR FIRE DEMONS OVER *GIANT SPIDERS* ?!?! COME ON PEOPLE! STINGING SPIDERS? doesn't get better than that!!!!


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## BlackCaptain (Feb 25, 2003)

Haha... because fire demon's will just set you on fire!

Durin, if you go to the bottom right of someones post, and click Quote on the person you wanna quote, the quote goes straight to your post, and it tells all of us who origonaly said it...


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## Goldberry (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DurinLongBeard _
> *HOW CAN ANYONE CHOOSE DRAGONS OR FIRE DEMONS OVER GIANT SPIDERS ?!?! COME ON PEOPLE! STINGING SPIDERS? doesn't get better than that!!!! *



Spiders are so ugly and gross! We have spiders in my house that look like Shelob!


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## Tinuvien21 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Dragons*

Dragons R D best. Trolls are ugly, spiders are nasty, and Balrogs are OK even if they have wings and they can't fly!


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## Sam_Gamgee (Mar 27, 2003)

SPIDERS OF COURSE.... ever read the silmarillion...then you would realize how terrible spiders are, dirty dirty ungoliant.


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## Idril (Mar 29, 2003)

Spiders I don't like even little tiny ones (been known to pass out as the site of a big one!)



> 'have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last'



Thats gotta be the height of meanest and horror.


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## Lúthien Séregon (Mar 29, 2003)

My favourite by far are the fire-breathing, winged dragons, if only Ancalagon appeared more in the story... 

Oh by the way, this is my 100th post!


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## Wonko The Sane (Apr 1, 2003)

Hello...THREE WORDS:

IMMORTAL FIRE DEMONS!!!


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## Theoden_king (Apr 1, 2003)

Come on people vote for Balrogs, they are far better than dragons


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## Lúthien Séregon (Apr 1, 2003)

Dragons all the way!


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## Elendil3119 (Apr 1, 2003)

Definitely balrogs. Dragons are cool too, but just not as superly powerful.  Trolls seem pretty dumb, as in unintelligent. 

EDIT: Balrogs ahead by one vote! Yay!


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## Gloin (Apr 1, 2003)

I'm torn between Balrogs, Dragons and Spiders.

Ungoliant in The Sil creeps the hell out of me, the way she eats all the jewels, as well as Shelob.

But then again, I wouldn't want to stand up and brawl with Smaug or Ancalagon the Black anytime.

And of course, Balrogs, the Fire Demons of Utumno are just so cool.


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## Oren (Apr 1, 2003)

Definatly Dragons!
I mean, the whole fire-breathing thing is awsome!


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## Wonko The Sane (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Theoden_king _
> *Come on people vote for Balrogs, they are far better than dragons *



It's true. Theoden_King is RIGHT!!!

IMMORTAL FIRE DEMONS!!!!


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## Rain-King (Apr 9, 2003)

Balrogs are my personal favourite because so little is known about them and they aren't biological creatures in the same way a Dragon or a Troll is. They can travel as flame or shadow, they may or may not be able to fly and may or may not have wings however they seriously kick ass. I like things small and whilst a Balrog isn't tiny, it is an immensely powerful creature for what it is. They are approximately twice the height of a man (Ecthelion's helmet pierced it in the stomach area) whereas Dragons are several hundred feet long.


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## EL GALLO (Apr 12, 2003)

Definitely Balrogs: they are far more resistant than dragons and much more dreadful. A simple arrow is enough to kill a dragon, while only a powerful eldar or maiar lord can kill a Balrog and in some cases, giving his life. Also dragons are giant lizards while Balrogs are demons older than the oldest of dragons, and were the torturers in Angband.


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## Wonko The Sane (Apr 17, 2003)

WOO!!! Two more votes for IMMORTAL FIRE DEMONS


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## Aglarthalion (Apr 20, 2003)

Balrogs, of course.


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## Wonko The Sane (Apr 24, 2003)

You said it!!! 

This thread is little more than yelling our points now...

Does anybody have any more to say? Or should we close it?


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## Fugitive1992 (Sep 20, 2005)

why does everyone like Balrogs so much? you hear more about trolls anyways!!!!


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## e.Blackstar (Sep 20, 2005)

There's no contest!

Dragons, duh!


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## Gothmog (Sep 20, 2005)

Fugitive1992 said:


> why does everyone like Balrogs so much? you hear more about trolls anyways!!!!


Because we are such nice friendly welcoming persons


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## Fugitive1992 (Sep 20, 2005)

oh, ok. 
but i feel all alone. hardly anybody likes trolls


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## Lady_of_Gondor (Sep 21, 2005)

Hey, I like Giant Spiders the best. Think of it, Shelob was the coolest, couldn't be beat except by Frodo and Sam because they had the phial of Galadrial, but other than that she was b*tch*n!

BTW, Wonko, your avatar is the picture that is on the front cover of my Anthology of British Literature: Romance through Twentieth Century


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## Shagrat (Sep 25, 2005)

I just love the stupidity of the Trolls in The Hobbit and the referencing of them in Tolkien's later works.


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## Firawyn (Sep 25, 2005)

finaaly!!!! im not the only one who likes trolls .
thanks for finally saying something Shagrat


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## Gothmog (Sep 26, 2005)

Firawyn said:


> finaaly!!!! im not the only one who likes trolls .
> thanks for finally saying something Shagrat


Well I do like Trolls. Though I could not eat a whole one


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## Ermundo (Oct 30, 2005)

You fools, no dragon,troll,or spider can kill me...........die now...
But Lo, A Balrog and with his sword of might triumphs over evil
...
in other words Balrogs rule


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