# What do you remember about your first reading of the LOTR?



## Rivendell_librarian (May 5, 2022)

Which could have been quite recently of course. For instance, there may have been something you didn't like about the tale. I didn't know much about the story when I first read it but I do remember being disappointed by the breaking of the fellowship. Once you've finished the book it becomes pretty clear why that had to happen though.

This leads me on to a more general question - is it better to know as little as possible about a book's plot before you read it? I always used to read the Introduction (if there is one) first, but now I'm reading it after I've finished the book. Of course you need to know whether it's the kind of book you want to read but that might not mean much more than knowing which part of the bookshop it comes from and who the author is.

Even so, I believe many people will continue to listen to Hamlet, watch Swan Lake etc. even though they know the stories well, unless Fahrenheit 451 becomes a reality


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## Halasían (May 5, 2022)

I remember getting bogged down after the Old Forest my first read. I took a break from trying to read it when I hit the Tom Bombadil chapter, and I mentioned to my neighbor who had loaned me his paperback that I was finding it hard going. He told me that chapter was an anomaly and to push through it as it got better. I did. It got better. I got keenly interested with the Barrow Downs through to the Council of Elrond, and I was all in after that short pause. On subsequent readings I still would browse through the Tom Bombadil chapter.

I went into Lord of the Rings after reading the Hobbit, and started with the Foreword the first read. It was different, and it did eventually engage me to a point that I read Lord of the Rings many times, while only having read The Hobbit once.


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 5, 2022)

I shamefully had never heard of Tolkien or LOTR before the movies came out. I saw Fellowship in theaters and then read the book. I remember it being the best fantasy book I'd ever read and promptly read the next wtwo within the next few months. Tolkien had become my most favorite author and then I started reading more. I read the Hobbit and then a teacher in high school that I realy liked gave me my first copy of The Silmarillion, which I also devoured. After that, I read LOTR once a year from cover to cover for at least 5-6 years straight. While I haven't read LOTR in a few years now, it still is one of my favorite books ever and helped me to want to read fantasy a lot more, which I do!


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## Rivendell_librarian (May 5, 2022)

Nothing to be ashamed about of course Erestor Arcamen, and this is a good thing about the films, they encouraged people to read the books.


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## Erestor Arcamen (May 5, 2022)

Agreed, that was more a bit of humor/laughing at myself lol. The films, while not the best, did get me to ask a lot of questions about Middle Earth and the more mysterious things, such as the Entwives' fate. This definitely helped me to enjoy the books and want to read deeper into HOME etc. (and eventually join TTF!) so that's one thing they were good for, for me.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 5, 2022)

My father read me "The Lord of the Rings" when I was a child. He used to read me several pages before going to bed. Dad told me that one of the characters would die and then resurrect but didn't specify. So, when Gendalf dyed, I didn't loose hope, although I was not sure if it was him who would survive. This spoiler didn't spoil the book for me as I was a kid and really needed to hope that the wizard would be okay. Tolkien wrote in his letter that the stories were not aimed to be read to children before bedtime. I beg to disagree. I slept sweetly after listening to the book. LOTR made my childhood magical and full of wonders. 


Rivendell_librarian said:


> Even so, I believe many people will continue to listen to Hamlet, watch Swan Lake etc. even though they know the stories well, unless Fahrenheit 451 becomes a reality


I really like "Swan Lake", by the way. There's no doubt that Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky had a great talent. I always feel fascinated while watching this short video.



 How can I express my admiration for the whole ballet then?


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## Rivendell_librarian (May 5, 2022)

Yes that culmination of the music makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and listen


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## Maeglin (May 5, 2022)

Halasían said:


> I remember getting bogged down after the Old Forest my first read. I took a break from trying to read it when I hit the Tom Bombadil chapter, and I mentioned to my neighbor who had loaned me his paperback that I was finding it hard going. He told me that chapter was an anomaly and to push through it as it got better. I did. It got better. I got keenly interested with the Barrow Downs through to the Council of Elrond, and I was all in after that short pause. On subsequent readings I still would browse through the Tom Bombadil chapter.


I had a very similar experience (though with my uncle, not a neighbor). I had loved "The Hobbit" before picking up LOTR, but I got bogged down right about the same point you did or maybe even sooner (maybe when they were wandering through the Shire) and I put it down for about a year. My uncle encouraged me to pick it back up, so I did and remember getting to the Barrow Downs chapter and being hooked from there. 

I also remember thinking to my 11-year-old self, "Wow, this would make a great movie! I want to be a filmmaker and turn these books into movies"...and a year later I randomly had the old show "Entertainment Tonight" on and saw that the movies were in production, and thus my Hollywood dreams were dashed.


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## Olorgando (May 5, 2022)

Very little. It was 1983, I was in West Berlin during the first of two years of business administration training with the company, and before a colleague in this company class loaned me her German translation, we (perhaps four or five of us) had watched Ralph Bakshi's 1978 semi-animation. I have a dim memory of being confused by the description of Aragorn's ancestry - not even sure I connected the description to Aragorn at the time.

Something like two years later, now a full employee with the company in the Frankfurt region, I had gotten hold of my by now rather worn Allen & Unwin paperbacks. Again I couldn't say much about reaction to content; but I do remember when the story really gripped me (I've posted this before).

I'd been reading and gotten part of the way through FoTR, is my guess, when I woke up at six in the morning on a Saturday (!!!!!), grabbed the book, and continued reading (interrupted only by unavoidable "calls of nature") until 1 AM on Sunday morning. Which binge without a doubt carried me into RoTK.

The three LoTR volumes had all been reprinted by 1984 at the latest. TH is a reprint from 1985; The Sil, UT, and BoLT vols. 1 and 2 from 1986. I don't recall if I bought all eight books in one fell swoop, or the "other five" after having read LoTR. They all have the same black GA&U paperbacks spine, while the next four volumes of HoMe (up to RoTS) were all Unwin Hyman / Unwin Paperbacks.


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## Will Whitfoot (May 5, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> My father read me "The Lord of the Rings" when I was a child. He used to read me several pages before going to bed. Dad told me that one of the characters would die and then resurrect but didn't specify. So, when Gendalf dyed, I didn't loose hope, although I was not sure if it was him who would survive.


 I read it in high school, 1969. My best friend loaned me the books, but did not give any spoilers. I was devastated when Gandalf fell. I cried to my friend, who simply agreed, yeah that was bad. But then when Gandalf returned I was elated beyond belief, and kinda mad at my friend for not telling me! I get it, but to this day I prefer to have spoilers.... I will watch the spoiler reel BEFORE watching a film, because that episode with Gandalf was such a load of needless grief.


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## Starbrow (May 5, 2022)

I first read The Hobbit when I was 12 and thought it was okay. Then I had to read it again for my freshman English class in high school and I fell in love with it. I immediately bought the next Tolkien book I could find, which was Return of the King. (This was long before Amazon.) I read ROTK first (Thank goodness for the synopsis at the beginning.) and devoured FOTR and TT when I got them. Since I read the last book first, I knew Gandalf came back. I know stayed up late into the night reading the books because I couldn't put them down.


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## Goldilocks Gamgee (May 5, 2022)

When I was about three, my grandfather read me the Hobbit.

I thought it was a nice book, kind of silly (three-year-old me really enjoyed Bilbo's song about the spiders), but then I left it at that.

In 2014, at the age of six, I read the Lord of the Rings. Unlike most of y'all commenting up above, I found the start of the book very interesting. Personally, I like happy lives, even in books, and I just loved Goldberry. The Council of Elrond chapter was way too long and way too boring. But after that it got interesting. I remember being heartbroken when Gandalf died. It was the first time I cried for a character, and I remember crying myself to sleep that night. I memorized Frodo's poem about Gandalf, back then. When Gandalf came back to life, my emotions were mixed. I was glad that he was alive, but he felt... different.


HALETH✒🗡 said:


> I really like "Swan Lake", by the way. There's no doubt that Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky had a great talent. I always feel fascinated while watching this short video.


I play flute, and we are learning to play "Swan Lake" in my school's band. It's so hard! But it does sound really nice.


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## Olorgando (May 6, 2022)

Goldilocks Gamgee said:


> ... In 2014, at the age of six, I read the Lord of the Rings. ... When Gandalf came back to life, my emotions were mixed. I was glad that he was alive, but he felt... different.


You certainly got that right at that early age. He *was* different.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 6, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> You certainly got that right at that early age. He *was* different.


Gandalf became even more wise and powerful. Do you mean these differences?


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## Olorgando (May 6, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> Gandalf became even more wize and powerful. Do you mean these differences?


Powerful, yes. Wise perhaps in being allowed to remember more of what he knew in Valinor as Olórin, who was the wisest of the Maiar.
Not that much of this becomes apparent immediately upon Gandalf the White being reunited with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in Fangorn Forest. Except perhaps by Gandalf's statement to his three companions in TT, Book Three, chapter V "The White Rider"

"... none of you have any weapon that could hurt me." This includes Aragorn's Andúril ...


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 6, 2022)

As one of those swept up in the first "paperback wave", my story is closest to Will Whitfoot's, if slightly older; I began my reading in 1967, after hesitating for several months, because it seemed _everyone _in my high school was carrying one or another volume of the paperbacks around -- including many of the "non-nerds" -- and I, in my foolish ignorance, thought "If _those _people are reading it, it can't be that good" (I was being an idiot, of course).

I finally dipped my toe in, in my typically oddball way, when on a whim, picked out _The Tolkien Reader _from a revolving rack at my local drug store one day; an eccentric decision, but it led me to eventually break down and read _The Hobbit_, and then of course LOTR. And I loved them.

This has been a fascinating thread so far, not least as it underlines Tolkien's remark that
_. . .the passages or chapters that are to some a blemish are all by others specially approved._

For me, the early chapters describing wandering through the Shire, and beyond, had a special resonance, as I was doing the same myself at the time, in my own "Shire", alone or with a friend or two, through woods and up and down small mountains, by day or night. In fact, after reading the books, my best friend and I set some of the poems to simple tunes of our own, and used to sing them as we walked along, ready to meet "a sudden tree or standing stone, that none had seen but we alone".

The other thing I remember quite clearly is the shift in tone, right after Bilbo's party, from the relative light-heartedness of _The Hobbit _to the alarming clash with Gandalf over the Ring: some dark mystery was being unveiled, and of course I had to see how it unfolded.

Oh, by the way, no one "spoiled" it for me, for which I remain grateful. 😊


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## Rivendell_librarian (May 8, 2022)

Another interesting point is that we are book readers not literary critics: reacting to the story itself.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 8, 2022)

An important distinction, showing the difference between a "subjective" and "objective" approach to literature. Though both can exist in the same person. 🙂


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## Olorgando (May 8, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> An important distinction, showing the difference between a "subjective" and "objective" approach to literature. Though both can exist in the same person. 🙂


There is no such thing as an objective approach to literature, no matter what lies pompous buffoons at universities, newspapers and whatever may try to foist upon us. We humans simply are not capable of objectivity; what passes for it in some sectors is group-think that the group *führers* desperately want accepted as that figment of human fantasy.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 8, 2022)

Taste is subjective in general but there's an objective minimum of taste that allows to distinguish high-quality literature from low-quality books.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 8, 2022)

I'm applying the terms to the difference between the direct experience of literature and the use of critical methods to examine it. Northop Frye likens it to the difference between shivering and reading a thermometer; we can certainly do both, and each has its own validity.


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## HALETH✒🗡 (May 8, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I'm applying the terms to the difference between the direct experience of literature and the use of critical methods to examine it. Northop Frye likens it to the difference between shivering and reading a thermometer; we can certainly do both, and each has its own validity.


Yes, composition, means of artistic expression, syntactic constructions used, types of rhyming are objective criteria for text analysis.


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## Olorgando (May 8, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> Taste is subjective in general but there's an objective minimum of taste that allows to distinguish high-quality literature from low-quality books.


What passes for objectivity is when sufficiently large - possibly more often sufficiently influential - groups have reached a consensus; which is a group subjectivity. The consensus tends to be on a general level; if the group were to start discussing details, they would probably find that the consensus doesn't go as far as they thought - or as the (often small) influential part of a group would like the group to believe.

No question, I agree with the consensus reached on quite a few topics. I just find that the group of terms based on the word "objective" is possibly the most misused concept in all of human language. And those most often misusing it are the types that swiftly raise the Wolverine hackles on my neck.


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## Olorgando (May 8, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> I'm applying the terms to the difference between the direct experience of literature and the use of critical methods to examine it. Northop Frye likens it to the difference between shivering and reading a thermometer; we can certainly do both, and each has its own validity.


Fine. But do you use a thermometer using the Fahrenheit, the Celsius, or the Kelvin scale?


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## Beytran70 (May 8, 2022)

I did not read the books until after I had seen the movies, and the movies scared me a bit as a kid so I was expecting them to be scarier than they were. I also was surprised at how many things were different -- and drastically so! Still, there was enough familiarity and depth from the movies that I was not overwhelmed by the reading and blew through all three in just a week or two. I remember being happy to see the songs from the movie in their full versions!


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## Persephone (May 12, 2022)

My turn...

I was in college when I was gifted the Hobbit and the Trilogy. The gifter was a Scottish man who I met in one of the side hustles I had to do to pay for my tuition (I had 2 - and I don't recommend it). Anyway, before that, I've never read an entire book - let alone a series. I was into Sci-Fi - Star Trek and Star Wars - I was also into superheroes and comic books. The only other book I've read before that was Red Dwarf, which is nowhere near in length or magnitude. 

I was told to start with THE HOBBIT. At first, I figured it was a kind of mythology. I've never heard of Hobbits before and as I read their description - and how Bilbo acted all throughout the story - I realized, Oh my god, they are talking about Filipinos! (I am a Filipino, BTW). Short, loves food, on the hairy side of things, loves parties, goes to parties even if uninvited (what you gonna do?), basically treats everyone in the village as family, will mutter nonsensical - albeit sometimes hurtful - words when forced to do things they don't like, but will do them anyway, and is always READY TO HELP. This was further cemented when I read LOTR. 

It took me a while to wrap my head around the old English style of writing, especially with the songs and poems. The Philippines is one of only 2 countries in Asia who use American English more than British English. My exposure and background to the language is American so it took a while for me to fully appreciate the way Tolkien wrote - but I was fascinated by the story. It read more Historical than Fictional - and as a writer myself, I find that difficult to achieve because it requires massive world building and deep character development that will overlap with other characters. I know his work was tainted by his religious beliefs as well as philosophies he acquired in life, but I never felt that he was inculcating anything so I took his work as purely entertainment. 

It was while reading the Hobbit that I first had that experience of actually losing myself in the book. When they were running away from the spiders in Mirkwood, I found myself running with them and scared. I had to stop reading - it freaked me out. It happened again in LOTR, when they were under Moria.


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## Bunny (May 29, 2022)

I was probably in junior high (not sure of the year). My mom wanted me to listen to my younger sister read, to improve her skills. In The Golden Treasury of Children's Literature, there is an exerpt from The Hobbit: An Unexpected Party. I liked it enough to buy the Ballantine paperback, then LOTR itself. Having my sister read to me stopped quickly, and I read all four books aloud to my sister, interrupted halfway through when my baby brother joined us and I had to start over. I bought a set for each of the three of us when I got my first job.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 7, 2022)

When I first read The Lord of the Rings, (I don't remember everything and I won't bore anyone with dates and meaningless timeframes,) What I remember most is that I changed. As I read it, I was not the same person anymore, and the same has happened for each Middle-Earth Book I have read since. 

First of all, I read it in order. The Hobbit first, then the The Lord of the Rings, which I also read in order. The Hobbit to me was an excellent book, and I very much liked the literature and had a particular affection for the maps and poems. So when I read The Lord of the Rings, I adored it. I remember through LoTR, I just felt like a totally different person. I felt like I was different, and ever since that day, I have been a huge LoTR and Tolkien Fan. I am constantly rereading the books, and each time I do I get something more out of them. I have made tons of maps, dioramas, letters, and even more. Lord of the Rings became something that shaped who I was as a person, and to this day, I will never be the same again, nor do I want to be.

I also read the Silmarillion after The Lord of the Rings, and I read Unfinished Tales also. Each time these books have captivated me and changed who I was. I am constantly making up music to the songs and singing them(Glad I am not the only one!) and increasing my knowledge of Sindarin, Quenya, and Telerin. I can write in both Dwarvish runes and Elvish Tengwar Script, and can barely have a conversation without saying some reference to Tolkien and Middle-Earth.

Thank you for this post- and I love seeing how everyone else discovered Tolkien, Middle-Earth, and The Lord of the Rings!


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## Míriel Amaniel (Jun 7, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> increasing my knowledge of Sindarin, Quenya, and Telerin. I can write in both Dwarvish runes and Elvish Tengwar Script, and can barely have a conversation without saying some reference to Tolkien and Middle-Earth.


I would love to learn from you! 

_Actually, I already am, right? _


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 7, 2022)

'Tis true you are! Through little sentences hither and thither! 'Alas my knowledge is ne'er complete either, and I am ever learning as was ever my Quest in life, to learn, and to ne'er cease learning! For e'er is their knowledge to be gained!


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## Lómelindë Lindórië (Jun 7, 2022)

_And yet the deepest knowledge may come from what one harbours within themself, is it not?

Indeed, I am gladdened to learn from you! Nauva i nauva, such was the first that I came upon thanks to you!_


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## jdbliss (Jun 9, 2022)

I am embarrassed to say I do not remember a lot about the first time I read through the books. But what I do remember is.....I was listening to the Cheap Trick "Dream Police" album during the first time I read the books, so now it is indelibly ingrained in my head...every time I hear a song off that album, I see images from the books. I don't think that's a bad thing!


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## frodolives7601 (Jun 27, 2022)

Will Whitfoot said:


> I read it in high school, 1969. My best friend loaned me the books, but did not give any spoilers. I was devastated when Gandalf fell. I cried to my friend, who simply agreed, yeah that was bad. But then when Gandalf returned I was elated beyond belief, and kinda mad at my friend for not telling me! I get it, but to this day I prefer to have spoilers.... I will watch the spoiler reel BEFORE watching a film, because that episode with Gandalf was such a load of needless grief.


I read it the summer I was thirteen. I can still remember my dad handing me paperback versions of _The Hobbit _and _LOTR_, saying, "I think you'll like these." I had never read fantasy before but became completely captivated. And for me too, Will, the thing I remember most clearly is crying when Gandalf fell in Moria. He was my favorite _LOTR_ character at the time, though Frodo is now.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 27, 2022)

frodolives7601 said:


> I read it the summer I was thirteen. I can still remember my dad handing me paperback versions of _The Hobbit _and _LOTR_, saying, "I think you'll like these." I had never read fantasy before but became completely captivated. And for me too, Will, the thing I remember most clearly is crying when Gandalf fell in Moria. He was my favorite _LOTR_ character at the time, though Frodo is now.


Oh I remember crying for Gandalf too... Had to be one of my absolute favorite characters since I read The Hobbit first and loved his character in that. It was the first time I had actually cried in a book, and it felt so odd. I remember that I would even cry after the fact, like in later chapters the moment something was mentioned of him. When he returned, it was a joyous occasion for me. I also like Frodo's character, but I must admit from LOTR, Legolas has to be high on the favorites list.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 27, 2022)

jdbliss said:


> I am embarrassed to say I do not remember a lot about the first time I read through the books. But what I do remember is.....I was listening to the Cheap Trick "Dream Police" album during the first time I read the books, so now it is indelibly ingrained in my head...every time I hear a song off that album, I see images from the books. I don't think that's a bad thing!


This reminds me: I'd stopped listening to pop music a couple of years before reading Tolkien, because I was tired of the junk on Top 40 radio-- which was all there was at the time, unless you lived in a large city.

A friend who shared my love for science fiction, and then Tolkien, lent me Satanic Majesties Request, saying I'd find fantasy and SF music. He was right, and like JD, I forever associated the album with Tolkien in my mind, perhaps this song especially:




Lying on my bed, immersed in Middle-earth, and then, the next morning, right back in the misery of high school. 😥

And in this one, I immediately pictured a hobbit chorus doing the "Ooh-la-las"! 😅





(And yes, Elhir -- of course they're singing about Galadriel!😄)


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## Aldarion (Jun 27, 2022)

I am another case of "saw the movies first". So I remember that back after seeing the _Fellowship, _first thing I did was draw a map based on my memory and impressions from the movies, which I then updated over time. As you can see from my memory-based redrawing, it was... rather different from the books.



Thankfully, I read all three books almost immediately after watching _Return of the King_, so this misconception did not last for long. Suffice to say, however, _map_ was the thing that impressed on me the most in the first reading of the books.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 27, 2022)

Aldarion said:


> I am another case of "saw the movies first". So I remember that back after seeing the _Fellowship, _first thing I did was draw a map based on my memory and impressions from the movies, which I then updated over time. As you can see from my memory-based redrawing, it was... rather different from the books.
> 
> View attachment 14221
> 
> Thankfully, I read all three books almost immediately after watching _Return of the King_, so this misconception did not last for long. Suffice to say, however, _map_ was the thing that impressed on me the most in the first reading of the books.


I love the maps. Mere days after I started reading I made a huge detailed map of Middle-Earth I remember. Had all the names of places and everything, and roads. It was very nice to have all the places at my fingertips, particularly because I read it from a library first. Later on, I bought the books myself and have read them MANY times since.


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## Zusthratuk (Jun 27, 2022)

Back in 2002, I was 5 years old and I already became a LOTR fan (yet, I weren't aware of Tolkien at all); despite my age, I began to read the 70's Spanish edition of the Return of the King, they were my mother's book, she had read the books in her teenages. 

Whatever, I remember that I didn't watch The Return of the King since it was 2002. I just couldn't read too much since it was quite difficult to me indeed. Shamelessly, I admit it since I was a child and I believe that no one has ever read Tolkien when they were that young despite what some people could say. 

What I want to tell is that I remember reading some part when Pippin and Gandalf met Faramir, and for me, I imagined Faramir as a truly old man and the whole fellowship was there at the moment. As you may imagine, I just couldn't continue reading since I hadn't understand anything at all.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 27, 2022)

Zusthratuk said:


> Back in 2002, I was 5 years old and I already became a LOTR fan (yet, I weren't aware of Tolkien at all); despite my age, I began to read the 70's Spanish edition of the Return of the King, they were my mother's book, she had read the books in her teenages.
> 
> Whatever, I remember that I didn't watch The Return of the King since it was 2002. I just couldn't read too much since it was quite difficult to me indeed. Shamelessly, I admit it since I was a child and I believe that no one has ever read Tolkien when they were that young despite what some people could say.
> 
> What I want to tell is that I remember reading some part when Pippin and Gandalf met Faramir, and for me, I imagined Faramir as a truly old man and the whole fellowship was there at the moment. As you may imagine, I just couldn't continue reading since I hadn't understand anything at all.


Congrats getting into it so young! I am sure it was difficult if you did not understand it however.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 27, 2022)

Zusthratuk said:


> I began to read the 70's Spanish edition


I'm curious, Zusthratuk -- have you read the original English edition since then? And if so, how would you compare the two?

And welcome to the forum! If you'd like to introduce yourself "formally", and say something about your particular interests, don't forget our New Members thread:









New Members


Meet and greet the newest TTF members. -- [ One thread per new member only! ] --




www.thetolkienforum.com


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 27, 2022)

Zusthratuk said:


> Back in 2002, I was 5 years old and I already became a LOTR fan (yet, I weren't aware of Tolkien at all); despite my age, I began to read the 70's Spanish edition of the Return of the King, they were my mother's book, she had read the books in her teenages.
> 
> Whatever, I remember that I didn't watch The Return of the King since it was 2002. I just couldn't read too much since it was quite difficult to me indeed. Shamelessly, I admit it since I was a child and I believe that no one has ever read Tolkien when they were that young despite what some people could say.
> 
> What I want to tell is that I remember reading some part when Pippin and Gandalf met Faramir, and for me, I imagined Faramir as a truly old man and the whole fellowship was there at the moment. As you may imagine, I just couldn't continue reading since I hadn't understand anything at all.


Yes, Welcome to TTF! - Should have said so sooner but apparently I was just too engaged in responding to you. 😅 
Glad indeed that you have joined!

Wait... I just hit 250 posts! Yay! I shall finally receive the Silmarils badge.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 27, 2022)

Congratulations! 😀

Keep 'em coming!


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 29, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Congratulations! 😀
> 
> Keep 'em coming!


I will! Next up to achieve is Heir of Numenor!


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## Ent (Jun 29, 2022)

The year was 1971. I was sitting in barracks during my 1st year in the Navy. 
Following boot camp, sister had insured she'd sent me back packed with Hobbit and LOTR. (She'd been trying to get me to read them for years.) She was insistent - I was resistant - being, well, a bothersome brother..!

But at last I started *H* on a Sunday when the excitements and available amusements of life on base had declined to such a state I had, literally, nothing else to do.
*H *was finished that day, and *LOTR* immediately begun Monday afternoon right after the day's training. (Electronics). No sleep of consequence occurred for the next four nights - just enough minutes to allow arrival at the classroom looking relatively alive. (Awake was a different matter.)

This was NOT good for my training - but it was great for my soul.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 29, 2022)

Great story, Ray -- sneaky, but smart, sister, huh?

BTW, my Dad was a Chief Electrician's Mate. WWII, though, so no LOTR to read. But one of his grandsons, now in the Navy, read Tolkien as a boy.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 29, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> The year was 1971. I was sitting in barracks during my 1st year in the Navy.
> Following boot camp, sister had insured she'd sent me back packed with Hobbit and LOTR. (She'd been trying to get me to read them for years.) She was insistent - I was resistant - being, well, a bothersome brother..!
> 
> But at last I started *H* on a Sunday when the excitements and available amusements of life on base had declined to such a state I had, literally, nothing else to do.
> ...


 A great story indeed. I love how each one of our members has come to find Tolkien in different ways, and been led to this Forum through still others, but we are all united under the affection for the works and writings of one extraordinary and incredible man, author, and father: J.R.R. Tolkien. 

Thank you for sharing this story.


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## Ent (Jun 29, 2022)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> Great story, Ray -- sneaky, but smart, sister, huh?
> 
> BTW, my Dad was a Chief Electrician's Mate. WWII, though, so no LOTR to read. But one of his grandsons, now in the Navy, read Tolkien as a boy.


My father too served in WWII - bosun's mate 1st class. I as an Electronics Technician, Vietnam era... also trained in Nuclear Power, ultimately handling calibration and repair of the radiation detection instrumentation used aboard the submarines of those days.

I was fortunate enough to raise my children on the reading of the Hobbit. They remember the time fondly. (And oddly, one of their memories is the way that particular hardback book smelled..! Very unusual - very wonderful. We've never found its match.)



Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> A great story indeed. I love how each one of our members has come to find Tolkien in different ways, and been led to this Forum through still others, but we are all united under the affection for the works and writings of one extraordinary and incredible man, author, and father: J.R.R. Tolkien.
> 
> Thank you for sharing this story.


The pleasure of meeting is mine. My purpose here is entirely to learn, as I spend my waning years exhausting the deeper lore and work of Tolkien. I've much to absorb. In this lies a danger, though... the Forum is likely to be beset by my questions, and likely my works as I proceed, progress, and put the Lore's Events to both essay and verse (accurately). I find first writing out studies in essay form, then putting them to verse, increases my retention greatly.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 29, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> The pleasure of meeting is mine. My purpose here is entirely to learn, as I spend my waning years exhausting the deeper lore and work of Tolkien. I've much to absorb. In this lies a danger, though... the Forum is likely to be beset by my questions, and likely my works as I proceed, progress, and put the Lore's Events to both essay and verse (accurately). I find first writing out studies in essay form, then putting them to verse, increases my retention greatly.


I shall be glad indeed to learn from you also, for I am certain that you know more of Tolkien than I do, and yet never has it been for me some competition, a race to know the most, only to gain what knowledge I can, and enjoy each day evermore through his works. I look forward to seeing both your questions and contributions through verse and inquiry. Lore truly is a priceless gift.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (Jun 29, 2022)

L Ray Hedberg said:


> the Forum is likely to be beset by my questions


One thing you can do here is search for keywords or phrases. Or, you can just dig through old threads in the various forums-- I'd bet a lot of your questions have been discussed! It's one of my favorite things to do, to be honest. 😄

But questions are always welcome! 🙂


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## Aldarion (Jun 30, 2022)

Elbereth Vala Varda said:


> I love the maps. Mere days after I started reading I made a huge detailed map of Middle-Earth I remember. Had all the names of places and everything, and roads. It was very nice to have all the places at my fingertips, particularly because I read it from a library first. Later on, I bought the books myself and have read them MANY times since.


Yeah, I actually took out crayons while reading _Lord of the Rings _for the first time, took a notebook (A4) I was using to take notes on things that interested me in the books, and drew a full-color map of Middle Earth on two pages (copied the one within the book - this one).

Unfortunately, I do not have the notebook anymore... I would have really liked to post a photo of it here.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Jun 30, 2022)

Aldarion said:


> Yeah, I actually took out crayons while reading _Lord of the Rings _for the first time, took a notebook (A4) I was using to take notes on things that interested me in the books, and drew a full-color map of Middle Earth on two pages (copied the one within the book - this one).
> 
> Unfortunately, I do not have the notebook anymore... I would have really liked to post a photo of it here.


That sounds very detailed. For me, I took a huge piece of paper, since I was reading a library version with a massive map, and copied every single thing down to the smallest detail. I still do have that map, I may post it some day.

So sorry to hear that you lost the notebook, never too late to draw another!


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## Deimos (Sep 27, 2022)

The LOTR books had been sitting on my shelf since 1987, unread.
Sometime in 2000 or thereabouts I heard that all three books were being made into a movie (or movies) , and I thought, "ooooo...,better read that thang before the movies come out."
I was not really into Tolkien at the time... I had read The Hobbit in 1993...and that was it for my Tolkien exposure. 
So beginning in October 2001 I started reading LOTR, a chapter a night.
And I was utterly lost to *this* world... it had ceased to exist whenever I picked up the books whatever volume I was in.
I was completely immersed in ME.
And sometime in late November I finished it (all 3 books) ... And I remember thinking "I know there were things I missed on a first reading...always happens whenever I read a novel. Missed things the first time I read _Dune_, missed things the first time I read the [original 3] Foundation Books. I know I missed some important things. "
So I picked up FOTR and began again, and got lost in ME all over again 🙂, and finished ROTK maybe a week before the first movie came out in late December.


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## Elbereth Vala Varda (Sep 27, 2022)

Awesome story. I know what you mean about getting lost in it. It changes you, and how you view the world, everything. It has shaped me into the person I am today, and for that I am always grateful.


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## Erzuu (Oct 3, 2022)

First I saw some parts of the first movie when I was about 8 years old. Of course I had nightmares about Black Riders (aka Nazguls) and Galadriel freaking out at Frodo. After five years later I saw every movie then I started to look for books from library. I borrowed the whole trilogy in one book and oh boy the whole summer holiday went reading that and after that I knew LOTR is my thing and the one and only fantasy for me. 

Nowdays I have every movie in my shelf and I bought the book and I'm really proud of it. 

If I feel down I know I always could go to Middle-Earth


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 3, 2022)

I remember being a Junior in high school. I had heard, earlier that year, they were making films of the books. Previously, Star Wars had been my dominant interest and I was more inclined toward Sci-Fi than fantasy (if only marginally). Also, previously, I had seen the Rankin-Bass The Hobbit a couple of times in my childhood and the Ralph Bakshi The Lord of the Rings and the Rankin-Bass The Return of the King animated films only once (I don't remember at what age) and only remembered a handful of images and "Frodo of the Nine-Fingers".

This new film would be a brand new introduction to Middle-Earth. My mom had always spoken highly of the books so I was excited. The Fellowship was such an engaging film I saw it nine times in the theatres and voraciously read the books the remainder of my Junior year. I was going through a marked shift in my disposition and this certainly helped with my maturity levels. By the next fall (2002) I was reading The Silmarillion which my mom had previously bought but never finished (to this day it has an indent from where her bookmark sat for decades). The Silmarillion quickly became my favourite book and I've read it 11 times. With the films coming out in the winter, and my initial reading of the books in fall and winter, Tolkien is forever associated with that time of year.


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## CheriptheRipper (Oct 11, 2022)

I'm doing my first read through right now and have been for the past year or so. (Only read like 20 mins a day).
I don't remember particularly much, the books are great though. Really glad I bought them.
I have a hard time remembering stuff because I've seen the movies a lot (and still watch them often).
Gets a bit irritating differentiating between what's canon and what's not.

I do think it's better to know as little as possible. I've often seen complaints on what PJ changed in the lotr trilogy but mainly about the same things. So most months when I read I find something new which is always pretty nice.
Also, after watching Wheel of Time's first season I wasn't too fond of the first book, because for however much the show differs from the book it was still too much of the same. The 2nd, 3rd and fourth books I enjoyed way more 😎


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## Deimos (Oct 12, 2022)

HALETH✒🗡 said:


> My father read me "The Lord of the Rings" when I was a child. He used to read me several pages before going to bed. Dad told me that one of the characters would die and then resurrect but didn't specify. So, when Gendalf dyed, I didn't loose hope, although I was not sure if it was him who would survive. This spoiler didn't spoil the book for me as I was a kid and really needed to hope that the wizard would be okay. Tolkien wrote in his letter that the stories were not aimed to be read to children before bedtime. I beg to disagree. I slept sweetly after listening to the book. LOTR made my childhood magical and full of wonders.
> 
> I really like "Swan Lake", by the way. There's no doubt that Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky had a great talent. I always feel fascinated while watching this short video.
> 
> ...


You've got to watch this... the control and discipline to do this just boggles the mind. 
On a lighter note one comment made was: "Oooo they'd better hope not one of them stumbles or they will all go down."
And also: "That's me at about 1:21-1:26 trying to get the water out of my ears after I shower."


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 12, 2022)

CheriptheRipper said:


> I'm doing my first read through right now and have been for the past year or so. (Only read like 20 mins a day).
> I don't remember particularly much, the books are great though. Really glad I bought them.
> I have a hard time remembering stuff because I've seen the movies a lot (and still watch them often).
> Gets a bit irritating differentiating between what's canon and what's not.
> ...


In my opinion it's always best to see films first and then read the books as then you'll appreciate both. If you read the books first you'll pick apart the films until you can't stand them.


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## Deimos (Oct 13, 2022)

ZehnWaters said:


> In my opinion it's always best to see films first and then read the books as then you'll appreciate both. If you read the books first you'll pick apart the films until you can't stand them.


Pax Z-W, but I must vehemently, oh yes! and most strenuously disagree! 😱
Depth of character development in the written story _almost_ always exceeds character development (CD) in a movie (unless the movie was directed by Ingmar Bergman or Martin Scorsese 🙄) which for that reason alone (there are others) it is preferable to read the book first.
The few times I watched a movie before reading the book (and that only occurred because I didn't know the book existed) I was always struck, upon reading the book, how much depth of character was lost in the dramatization. And quite often it is not possible to develop a character to the extent that the author did in the book.

Now, the assumption I'm making is that the writer and director (and studio) are making a good faith attempt to be true to the author's story and characters in the first place... (casting malevolent looks and the Evil Eye toward the entire_ Rings of Power_ trainwreck.)

The movies I watched before reading the books:
_The Lord of the Flies _( 1963) ...novel of the same name by William Golding
Movie was true to the book, very good character development but the CD in the book was better still.

_To Kill a Mockingbird _(w/ Gregory Peck) ...novel by Harper Lee...my opinion is same as it was for Lord of the Flies

_Pride and Prejudice_ (BBC 6 part series with Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle) .... novel by Jane Austen.
Movie exceptionally well done, character development comes close to the book. I still watch the movie, but more for the stunning depth of acting than for the story per se, but I prefer the book.

_The Godfather_ .... novel by Mario Puzo.... Ahhh, here we have an exception.... to put it bluntly Mario Puzo can't do character development. Period. Full stop.
Coppola performed miracles in making Puzo's characters fully and deeply 3 dimensional.

This next one is a similar situation to the aforementioned RoP trainwwreck in that the movie has the name (and characters' names), and basic story outline (really minimal) but otherwise bears little resemblance to the book and so, in retrospect, I'd have to say CD suffered exceedingly.
_Memento Mori_.... novel of the same name by Muriel Spark.
I enjoyed the movie, so I read the book. All I can say is that I never watched the movie again, but have re-read the book at least a dozen times.

Now to use PJ's LOTR movies as an example.....
I can't tell you how many times I've heard/read people saying that Boromir was evil, or just a power hungry jerk, or that Denethor was another jerk and thoroughly unlikable, or that Faramir was weak.
Then you read the books and learn how wrong, oh how so very wrong, those assessments are.

Yet those first impressions still stick in your mind, because that is the way our minds work. . (You've heard it said: "You only get one chance to make a first impression.")
It is why it easier to get people to embrace a new idea even if they think it is wrong , than it is to get them to change their mind about an idea or belief that they already hold, _even when that idea or "fact" is proven to them to be objectively false._

So, I would only encourage someone to watch PJ's LOTR or even the abominable RoP *first*, if they never intend to read the books later.
I would say that concerning any movie based on a book.
Book first (if you know the book exists) then movie. If movie first, don't bother with the book.

(And I do know there are going to be strident cries of disagreement about this 😉)


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## Olorgando (Oct 13, 2022)

Deimos said:


> ...
> _The Godfather_ .... novel by Mario Puzo.... Ahhh, here we have an exception.... to put it bluntly Mario Puzo can't do character development. Period. Full stop.
> Coppola performed miracles in making Puzo's characters fully and deeply 3 dimensional.
> ...


I managed to get a hold of the 4-DVD box "The Godfather - The Coppola Restoration", apparently from 2009, with all three films plus a bonus DVD (*everyone* does appendices by now, don't they? 😁), in a German version (so at least original and German synchronization). Seems it was a last-ditch rescue mission, as especially the celluloid copies of the first two films were disintegrating.
I also know that my parents had Mario Puzo's book in their big living room bookshelf, and that I read it - before the first film came out, I'd guess, as I recalled the "horse's head" scene to have been different in the book.

But then, besides Coppola directing all three films, just look at the actors who were involved:

Brando, Pacino, Caan, Duvall, Keaton, Hayden, Shire in part 1
Pacino, Duvall, Keaton, De Niro, Shire, Strasberg in part 2
Pacino, Keaton, Shire, Garcia, Wallach, Hamilton, Berger in part 3

And dozens I didn't mention above. These were different from the Agathe Christie-derived "Hercule Poirot" films of about the same time, starring Ustinov or Finney, or the disaster films also so popular, which had a huge cast of recognizable names in their credits - some of which were a bit past their screen prime.


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## ZehnWaters (Oct 13, 2022)

Deimos said:


> If movie first, don't bother with the book.


I could say this in reverse. Why bother seeing the movie if you've read the book? You've already gotten the complete picture. There's nothing to gain. No information that could possibly be ADDED. The reverse can't be said. My point was always you'll never enjoy the movie or show if you've read the book first and I hold to that. All you'll do is complain it's not right and you'll be right. If you see the show first, you'll enjoy both because the book will open you up to hidden treasures of information. I've never had an issue revising my opinion on characters because the books ALWAYS portray them differently and with more nuance to the point I see them as separate anyhow.

I will say, there's been a handful of times I preferred the film to the book (Series of Unfortunate Events (film)) or even the dub (usually only snippets as the show, as a whole, is usually better in the original as a whole (Kiki's Delivery Service)).


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## Radaghast (Oct 13, 2022)

Deimos said:


> Book first (if you know the book exists) then movie. If movie first, don't bother with the book.


I would _strenuously_ disagree. If all you've got are the movies, you are really missing out on a lot.


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## Deimos (Oct 13, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> I managed to get a hold of the 4-DVD box "The Godfather - The Coppola Restoration", apparently from 2009, with all three films plus a bonus DVD (*everyone* does appendices by now, don't they? 😁), in a German version (so at least original and German synchronization). Seems it was a last-ditch rescue mission, as especially the celluloid copies of the first two films were disintegrating.
> I also know that my parents had Mario Puzo's book in their big living room bookshelf, and that I read it - before the first film came out, I'd guess, as I recalled the "horse's head" scene to have been different in the book.
> 
> But then, besides Coppola directing all three films, just look at the actors who were involved:
> ...


May I offer a slight correction?
Yes, a Coppola directed all three films, but Francis Ford directed only the first two movies. His daughter directed Godfather III.
And, to put it as kindly as possible, Sophie ain't Francis. I could not get through GF III at all; it was painful to watch.

Just an aside, but the Godfather II is a member of that very exclusive club wherein the sequel is very often judged to be superior (even if only slightly superior) to the first movie. 
I'm hard pressed to decide which is better... I think both are cinematic masterpieces in screenplay, casting and directing. 
(Another movie in that exclusive club is _The Empire Strikes Back_)



ZehnWaters said:


> I could say this in reverse.  Why bother seeing the movie if you've read the book? You've already gotten the complete picture. There's nothing to gain. No information that could possibly be ADDED. The reverse can't be said. My point was always you'll never enjoy the movie or show if you've read the book first and I hold to that. All you'll do is complain it's not right and you'll be right. If you see the show first, you'll enjoy both because the book will open you up to hidden treasures of information. I've never had an issue revising my opinion on characters because the books ALWAYS portray them differently and with more nuance to the point I see them as separate anyhow.
> 
> I will say, there's been a handful of times I preferred the film to the book (Series of Unfortunate Events (film)) or even the dub (usually only snippets as the show, as a whole, is usually better in the original as a whole (Kiki's Delivery Service)).


Depends on how well the dramatization was done. 
I still watch and very much enjoy the 1995 BBC Pride and Prejudice because the acting is absolutely phenomenal. The dramatization would have to be pretty accurate (as is the case with this P&P production).
Or maybe the [now established and in high demand] actors are in their breakout roles (as was Peter O'Toole in Lawrence of Arabia which is based on a chapter of the _The Seven Pillars of Wisdom_ by T.E. Lawrence). 
And sometimes just to see a particular actor in a role you never expected him to be in. 
Lots of reasons.



Radaghast said:


> I would _strenuously_ disagree. If all you've got are the movies, you are really missing out on a lot.


Well, yes, of course if all you've got are the movies. 
One must make the best of a limited situation and work with what is available.


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## Olorgando (Oct 13, 2022)

Deimos said:


> May I offer a slight correction?
> Yes, a Coppola directed all three films, but Francis Ford directed only the first two movies. His daughter directed Godfather III.


You'd need to tell that to Wikipedia.
Sofia Coppola (she had been the baby being baptized at the end of the first film) was all of 19 when part III premiered. The article on that film clearly states that Francis Ford Coppola directed the film (as well as writing the script with the book's author Mario Puzo. Puzo's book didn't cover events of part III), and the article on Sofia Coppola states that she "made her feature-length directorial debut with the coming-of-age drama The Virgin Suicides (1999)."
What made part III interesting for me was that I'd read David Yallop's 1984 book "In God's Name", which dealt with the surprising death of Pope John Paul I after only 33 days as pope, and more to the point, the involvement of the Vatican Bank in Italian banking scandals of the period, centered on the Banco Ambrosiano.


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## Deimos (Oct 13, 2022)

Olorgando said:


> You'd need to tell that to Wikipedia.
> Sofia Coppola (she had been the baby being baptized at the end of the first film) was all of 19 when part III premiered. The article on that film clearly states that Francis Ford Coppola directed the film (as well as writing the script with the book's author Mario Puzo. Puzo's book didn't cover events of part III), and the article on Sofia Coppola states that she "made her feature-length directorial debut with the coming-of-age drama The Virgin Suicides (1999)."
> What made part III interesting for me was that I'd read David Yallop's 1984 book "In God's Name", which dealt with the surprising death of Pope John Paul I after only 33 days as pope, and more to the point, the involvement of the Vatican Bank in Italian banking scandals of the period, centered on the Banco Ambrosiano.


MY bad.... I stand corrected 😬. For some reason I remember Sophia being knocked about not only for her acting in GF III but also directing (or maybe "co-directing" it) with her father.

_But it was still painful to watch! _ (That part I will stand by 😁)


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## Olorgando (Oct 13, 2022)

Deimos said:


> MY bad.... I stand corrected 😬. For some reason I remember Sophia being knocked about not only for her acting in GF III but also directing (or maybe "co-directing" it) with her father.


Maybe daddy let her have a small (uncredited) try at some scene ... and besides, the likes of the "gems" unearthed by Radaghast in his OP of thread below, and others since then, are probably to be found for endless topics in the "post before you think" sector of the Internet:









Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien


Interesting new eye-roll icon. Can't make out what it's wearing 🤔 I think it is meant to be a wizard's hat




www.thetolkienforum.com


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