# Adapting the Silmarillion



## octoburn (Jul 23, 2017)

If you were adapting the Silmarillion, as a (mostly) whole, what would be your approach?

Movies? Television series? Graphic novels? A history-channel-style documentary series?

Personally, I think either a TV series or series of Graphic Novels would be the best options. Films would not have enough time to dictate to each of the characters to remotely do them justice.

How would you repair inconsistencies within the published texts?
Such as Galadriel's past, the lineage of Gil-Galad, etc.

Would you keep the names as published, or go with names Tolkien intended to change, such as the Elf who Turin threw the cup at before he left Doriath?

Would you compress the story, or even go as far as to merge some storylines and/or characters, for the sake of run-times, etc?

Personally, I wouldn't even consider merging story or characters. Though, I would likely compress the timeline a bit, as there are large periods of time where nearly nothing happens that would be watchable (the building of Gondolin being 50ish years, for example.)

Where would you START??

I think the best approach is starting the story around the time Melkor is released, before that would be a bit of a mess, storytelling wise, and most of what came before could be shown in flashbacks.


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## Elthir (Jul 23, 2017)

> If you were adapting the Silmarillion, as a (mostly) whole, what would be your approach? Movies? Television series? Graphic novels? A history-channel-style documentary series?



I would choose a ridiculously expensive television series, rendered in jaw-dropping computer animation.

But see my change below, although I could have just changed the former sentence 



> How would you repair inconsistencies within the published texts? Such as Galadriel's past, the lineage of Gil-Galad, etc.



The way I usually do I guess, by building around (firstly and most importantly) author-published text, which really helps straighten out the Galadriel story in my opinion. Then give secondary importance to late text, leaving Gil-galad a Fingolfinian, for instance.



> Would you keep the names as published, or go with names Tolkien intended to change, such as the Elf who Turin threw the cup at before he left Doriath?



Hmm. Tough one. I'm partial to using late texts if they don't contradict author published texts, but for example, there's a bit of a mystery with respect to Maedros verses Maedron, as to which is later. Yet if the story is going to include the detail of the reddish, coppery hair for the three brothers, then Maedros (not Maedhros) goes with Amros (not Amras) and... the other Amros.

Generally speaking I would probably take each case separately, and mull over factors until the project was way over budget.





> Would you compress the story, or even go as far as to merge some storylines and/or characters, for the sake of run-times, etc?



Compress and cut, but not merge or alter, I guess.



> Where would you START??




Hmm. I'm changing my first answer to: graphic novels -- made from computer generated pictures that echo three computer generated films -- Beren and Luthien, Tale of Turin, Earendil on the path to Aman, flashbacks of Fall of Gondolin. The novel provides the linking material to the films, and the fuller story.

I might have to wait for Bill Gates to back the project, while giving me full artistic freedom and control of every aspect of it too (and for the purposes of this post, the Tolkien Estate owning the rights to the Silmarillion materials is imagined not to exist).

Anyway it looks good in my head 

Some characters might be real actors possibly digitally tinkered with -- which of course they will have no problem with as I "elvish them up" according to how I think Elves "should" look! Ahem.

Sorry, not very realistic (at the present?) I know, but fun to imagine!


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## Mirak Dagan (Aug 8, 2017)

It could be either a Trilogy movies or a Mini series. I'm long for whatever they'll make, as long as, it turns out to be decent. Not like the BOTFA movie.


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## basti255 (Aug 9, 2017)

TV series would be awesome, with lots of practical effects and little CGI (I didn't care for how The Hobbit movies looked, the original trilogy was and still is beautiful mainly because of all the practical effects and little CGI). 

Graphic novel would also be awesome !


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## octoburn (Nov 4, 2017)

Galin said:


> I would choose a ridiculously expensive television series, rendered in jaw-dropping computer animation.
> 
> But see my change below, although I could have just changed the former sentence


 

This would likely be my approach as well. I think doing motion-capture would be the best option.



Galin said:


> The way I usually do I guess, by building around (firstly and most importantly) author-published text, which really helps straighten out the Galadriel story in my opinion. Then give secondary importance to late text, leaving Gil-galad a Fingolfinian, for instance.



But what IS the story, in author-published texts? Galadriel's story really isn't explored in the LOTR (outside of vague references to the past) but in the Silmarilliuonj (again, not in much detail) and Unfinished Tales.



Galin said:


> Compress and cut, but not merge or alter, I guess.



Same here. Although I'd be hard-pressed to even cut anyone or anything, because of the sprawling epicness of the Silmarillion's story, cutting anything has ramifications to the story almost anywhere you would make them.



Galin said:


> Hmm. I'm changing my first answer to: graphic novels -- made from computer generated pictures that echo three computer generated films -- Beren and Luthien, Tale of Turin, Earendil on the path to Aman, flashbacks of Fall of Gondolin. The novel provides the linking material to the films, and the fuller story.



I would stick with one or the other, personally. I originally had a plan for tv series linking movies, but I think you can get more out of the stories making each one a 8-10 episode season. But I don't believe this is a good way to go.



basti255 said:


> TV series would be awesome, with lots of practical effects and little CGI (I didn't care for how The Hobbit movies looked, the original trilogy was and still is beautiful mainly because of all the practical effects and little CGI).
> 
> Graphic novel would also be awesome !



I completely agree! I hated that The Hobbit films completely abandoned miniatures (Bigatures) for completely CGI sets. That's honestly my biggest disappointment with the films, despite the things many hate about them.

Thanks for all the replies, guys (and gals?)!

I am actually taking on the project of at least breaking down this project as a bit of a side writing project. Literally stuck on the first episode/chapter though. I know I want to open with the release of Melkor, but not sure about where to end the first episode/chapter. At one point, I was thinking I wanted to end with the forging of the Silmarils, but now I'm reconsidering that maybe it should end with Feanor's banishment from Tirion. I know I want to end the first "season" with Feanor's death.


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## Elthir (Nov 4, 2017)

> But what IS the story, in author-published texts? Galadriel's story really isn't explored in the LOTR (outside of vague references to the past) but in the Silmarilliuonj (again, not in much detail) and Unfinished Tales.



It's true that we have brief enough author-published references with respect to details, but we do have _The Road Goes Ever On_ to help weed out, for example, Tolkien's very late adumbrated tale, making Galadriel "unstained" (as he put it in a late letter), and removing her from the Rebellion.

I think we can say that Galadriel was banned for her role in leading the Exiled Noldor, and proudly would have refused any pardon of the Valar (had they given it at the time), and that after the overthrow of Morgoth, at some point, she passed over the Blue Mountains with Celeborn the Sinda, and went to Eregion (all RGEO).

So yes... quite basic!

But also, the tale that arguably "fits" with this is the story written in the early 1950s Silmarillion (partial update), which Christopher Tolkien wisely, in my opinion, chose for his constructed Silmarillion, published in 1977.

That said, we are still left with mountains of Second Age mist, some notable questions and gaps in time, and even a bit of confusion when we compare author-published texts -- one instance being Galadriel, right after rejecting the One (and before her lament), simply saying she will pass Over Sea, versus the direct statement in RGEO concerning her ban, however one possibly tries to work that out for considerations of consistency.

Anyway, RGEO helps...

... a bit


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## octoburn (Nov 4, 2017)

Ah, The Road Goes Ever On and On, one of a handful of Tolkien books I don't have.

So, by author published texts, Galadriel was a leader in the Rebellion, crossed Halcaraxe, joined her brother in Nargothrond and eventually moved into Doriath, meeting Celeborn?


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## Elthir (Nov 4, 2017)

A bit more sparse as far as Nargothrond or Doriath.

Although this brings up another issue with respect to _The Lord of the Rings_: Galadriel's mention of her passing over "mountains" before the Fall of Nargothrond and Gondolin, seemingly without Celeborn (personally I think this is a "ghost reference" concerning pre-Sindarin Celebornian notions):

The Road Goes Ever On (well there's more, about her lament and so on, but basically)

Galadriel's a leader in the Rebellion (compare 1977 Silmarillion), and banned for it: "After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so."

And as I say, at some point seemingly after Morgoth's fall, she passes over the Blue Mountains with Celeborn (specifically referred to here as one of the Sindar), and they go to Eregion.


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## Yalerd (Jan 9, 2018)

There's no way in Samhain it could ever be a movie or collection of movies.
TV series would be the only justice Game of Thrones style, but then they'd need serious commitment from developers, actors, and everyone involved for it to be like 10 seasons. That's my opinion of course. 

As for topic matter? Shooooooooot. I'd be lying if i said I haven't thought about this 100 million times. 2 ways:
Each season covered a sub story (Túrin or Beren and Lúthien) with plenty of flashbacks to older things
OR
The story starts with Tuor going to Gondolin eventually ends with Eärendil. Many many flashbacks and narrated sub-stories sprinkled all throughout.


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## Rána (Jan 23, 2018)

The idea of a miniseries is intriguing, but I'm just not sure I'm interested in seeing the material adapted into that medium. Small wars will be fought over casting decisions; things will be added, removed, altered... it seems like productions are always trying to inject more love interests and conflicts/triangles/etc. into stories. Notes come down from the top about putting an action sequence in the script every 'X' pages. It's the kind of thing I could see myself watching part of an episode or a couple of episodes before I can't watch anymore.

The graphic novel seems like a format where you could do some really interesting things with the material. I think I would like to see that the most.


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## Yalerd (Jan 23, 2018)

Rána said:


> The idea of a miniseries is intriguing, but I'm just not sure I'm interested in seeing the material adapted into that medium. Small wars will be fought over casting decisions; things will be added, removed, altered... it seems like productions are always trying to inject more love interests and conflicts/triangles/etc. into stories. Notes come down from the top about putting an action sequence in the script every 'X' pages. It's the kind of thing I could see myself watching part of an episode or a couple of episodes before I can't watch anymore.
> 
> The graphic novel seems like a format where you could do some really interesting things with the material. I think I would like to see that the most.


Overall you are definitely right.


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## Rána (Jan 23, 2018)

It occurs to me... you know when someone asks that question, “what would you do with $1million?” (or billion, or £, or €, or whatever) and the conversation starts going the direction of taxes, cost of living, how far you can actually go with that money... when the whole point was a day-dreaming type exercise where you want to learn about the passions and motivations of your friends.

Getting caught up in the real world logistics spoils the fun sometimes.
Assuming that the team of people adapting the material did it every bit of justice that we all hope... I would love to see the scenes of Fingolfin in single combat with Morgoth and Eärendil slaying Ancalagon. Those are two sequences that could be quite impressive.

And the whole sequence of events when Beleg rescues Túrin from the Orc-camp... that’s always played as very cinematic in my mind. I think that one would lens well.

The Ainulindalë is something I know I’d really like to see as a graphic novel. I’m curious to see how artists would render it onto the page.


P.S. It also occurs to me that "miniseries" is poor word choice. Of all the things that a _Silmarillion_ series would be, "mini" is definitely not one of them.

Looking at some of the other questions in the original post...

I would use the information in _LotR_, _Hobbit_, and _Silmarillion_ as the "canon" in that order, then branch out into other writings as far as smoothing out some of the inconsistencies and I would keep the names as they are published in the main 3. I think that would keep it more accessible to the audience that already knows Tolkien since those are the names they're most likely to be familiar with.

Making decisions about story compression and characters is the main controversy that moves me away from wanting to do it as a live action serial. I think the best format is one that allows you to keep it as unabridged as possible. Doing things that are digestible by a broad audience presents challenges. There seems to be a quiet agreement that although it's unfortunate that Tom Bombadil didn't make it to the screen in the Jackson film... maybe it's better that way, maybe some parts are better left unadapted. My mind also goes to the folding of Glorfindel into Arwen's role. Tolkien-ites might bristle at the concept, but there's also the part of the audience that has no previous experience with the literature. Adding one more name and face for them to keep track of can be confusing, especially one who is featured very briefly. If the audience is supposed to care about a character later in the story, I can see the benefit to trying to form a connection early. I would say that's one of the strengths of a multi-episode series over a saga of movies that you'd go see in a theater, there's less of a need to make changes based on run-time.

As for the starting point... I really want to start at the start, the Ainulindalë, but there's so much to it that's abstract and I know that my preference for stories involving the Valar is driving the point. Maybe I should be moving away from the Jackson flicks at this point, but they did a decent job in _Fellowship_ laying down some prehistory before advancing the main story. I could see handling the awakening of the Eldar, the summons, that whole journey (especially Elwë and Melian in the Forest of Nan Elmoth, I would want that included for sure), and the arrival of the Elves in Valinor as a lead-in sequence. Somewhere around the birth of Fëanor or the unchaining of Melkor seems a pretty fair spot to slow down the story-pace.


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## octoburn (Jan 28, 2018)

Rána said:


> The idea of a miniseries is intriguing, but I'm just not sure I'm interested in seeing the material adapted into that medium. Small wars will be fought over casting decisions; things will be added, removed, altered... it seems like productions are always trying to inject more love interests and conflicts/triangles/etc. into stories. Notes come down from the top about putting an action sequence in the script every 'X' pages. It's the kind of thing I could see myself watching part of an episode or a couple of episodes before I can't watch anymore.



I really don't think this would be an issue with the Silmarillion. With Game of Thrones, for example, they had essentially one big battle every season (except season 1, when a lot happened offscreen; and season 7 where there were fairly large battles almost every episode, though Field of Fire 2.0 would probably count as the "big" one) with most battles and skirmishes hinted or alluded to as happening off screen. And there are plenty of battles to show in the Silmarillion. At least one big one every season, and the Nirnaeth might compose of a full short season, the way I envision it.

I also think the Silmarillion is rife with love stories, unrequited love stories and love triangles. So much so that the season featuring Turin and Tuor might have to remove some to avoid redundancies. There's Turin/Gwindor/Finduilas then Turin/Niniel/Brandir as well as Tuor/Idril/Maeglin. Plus the love stories of Beren/Luthien, Tuor/Idril and tragic stories of Feanor's parents, Feanor and his wife, Turgon and Finrod and their wives, etc. etc.

(That said, I am not defending a mini-series proposal; I do not think it would work in that form, either)



Rána said:


> The graphic novel seems like a format where you could do some really interesting things with the material. I think I would like to see that the most.


I agree that GN may be the best route to go, as a budget for a Silmarillion tv series would dwarf GoT's current budget.



Rána said:


> It occurs to me... you know when someone asks that question, “what would you do with $1million?” (or billion, or £, or €, or whatever) and the conversation starts going the direction of taxes, cost of living, how far you can actually go with that money... when the whole point was a day-dreaming type exercise where you want to learn about the passions and motivations of your friends.
> 
> Getting caught up in the real world logistics spoils the fun sometimes.
> Assuming that the team of people adapting the material did it every bit of justice that we all hope... I would love to see the scenes of Fingolfin in single combat with Morgoth and Eärendil slaying Ancalagon. Those are two sequences that could be quite impressive.
> ...


I agree with this as well. While many would consider the Silmarillion "unfilmable" there are many sequences that are very cinematic. On the other side, there are a few that would be very odd on screen. Finrod/Sauron magic duel comes to mind at first.




Rána said:


> The Ainulindalë is something I know I’d really like to see as a graphic novel. I’m curious to see how artists would render it onto the page.


As a writer of comics, and a huge Tolkien fan, I disagree. The Music of the Ainur seems like something completely not suitable for almost any visual medium.




Rána said:


> P.S. It also occurs to me that "miniseries" is poor word choice. Of all the things that a _Silmarillion_ series would be, "mini" is definitely not one of them.
> 
> Looking at some of the other questions in the original post...
> 
> ...


I agree here, as well. Some of the changes make a lot of sense from a storytelling view. But within the Silmarillion, I do not see many places where that could be done, without losing something in the story later on. You could, for instance, combine some of Feanor's sons, but almost all of them serve some purpose within the story at some point.




Rána said:


> As for the starting point... I really want to start at the start, the Ainulindalë, but there's so much to it that's abstract and I know that my preference for stories involving the Valar is driving the point. Maybe I should be moving away from the Jackson flicks at this point, but they did a decent job in _Fellowship_ laying down some prehistory before advancing the main story. I could see handling the awakening of the Eldar, the summons, that whole journey (especially Elwë and Melian in the Forest of Nan Elmoth, I would want that included for sure), and the arrival of the Elves in Valinor as a lead-in sequence. Somewhere around the birth of Fëanor or the unchaining of Melkor seems a pretty fair spot to slow down the story-pace.


Again, I would not start with the Music, unless it was a very small part of a prologue.
The last sentence, we agree on completely.


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## Rána (Jan 29, 2018)

That's a good point. There's a lot more of that interpersonal drama compared to the material in _The Hobbit_. I tend to take a cynical view toward the intentions of producers who are tasked with ensuring that a project makes back its money; but if they're bankrolling the process they're certainly entitled to having input in the decision making. There are plenty of positive examples of storytelling to come out of those collaborations.

I have to be honest, I've only seen part of the first episode of _Game of Thrones. _Much to the dismay of my friends and family, picking up another mythology is one of the last things I'm trying to do right now. So I can't really use it as a point of reference. (At least for modern mythologies... part of my heritage is Slavic, I've been getting more curious about the myths of the Old Country. Baba Yaga, Koschei the Deathless, that kind of thing.) The success of _GoT_ would certainly help in the pitch meeting to get a Silm-series approved for production.

Stylistically I'm really interested in the project as a graphic novel or animation. I don't know what kind of market would exist for such a thing, I just think you can do more with the "look" of the project. Also, you wouldn't have issues of trying to reconcile the way that actors age in real life compared to how they're supposed to be aging in the story.

I was also thinking of the material in _The Silmarillion_ as Elvish documents from an Elvish perspective. You could potentially produce multiple series: exploring the same material and events from the perspective of Men and Dwarves. It's mentioned multiple times that Dwarves account many of the stories differently than the Elves, it might be worth trying to explore that view point.

I'm also not sure how deeply into the other writings of Tolkien that a screenwriter would want to pull material from. _Morgoth's Ring_ is the volume that I've been looking at the most lately. There're some really compelling things in there about the case of Finwë and Míriel: good debate amongst the Valar about the situation... the two eventually find each other in the Halls of Mandos, she hears of all the events that have transpired so far and repents of her stubbornness. She's able to take up a new form as a servant of Vairë, weaving the record of the glorious tragedies of the House of Finwë. She's a way more interesting character than what ends up in the published _Silmarillion_... do you add to the run-time by trying to include some of that story? That's just one example... I don't really know the material in _History of Middle-earth_ very well, there has to be some really amazing stuff that I don't know about.


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## octoburn (Jan 29, 2018)

Rána said:


> Stylistically I'm really interested in the project as a graphic novel or animation. I don't know what kind of market would exist for such a thing, I just think you can do more with the "look" of the project. Also, you wouldn't have issues of trying to reconcile the way that actors age in real life compared to how they're supposed to be aging in the story.



Especially considering the elves. A Silm series could last 6-7 years, and actors would age more than an elf would in that time. If not graphic novels, animation would be best. Mo-cap, similar to the Beowulf film from 10 or so years ago, would be ideal, in my opinion.



Rána said:


> I was also thinking of the material in _The Silmarillion_ as Elvish documents from an Elvish perspective. You could potentially produce multiple series: exploring the same material and events from the perspective of Men and Dwarves. It's mentioned multiple times that Dwarves account many of the stories differently than the Elves, it might be worth trying to explore that view point.



That is most definitely what the Silmarillion is. The focus within it reveals as much. In the same way the human race focuses on fairy tales and such about immortality and such, these Elven stories focus on Humans, who possess the Gift of Death. I think that part of the Silmarillion is brilliant. But it would obviously show all perspectives. Personally, I would love to visit the dwarves more. There is so little of them, aside from showing up in big battles, and killing Thingol, when there is so much more implied. One Dwarf (Telchar of Nogrod) made Angrist (the knife Beren used to take a Silmaril) the Dragon Helm (given to Maedhros and eventually passed down to Turin Turambar) and Narsil, which we know nothing about before Elendil has it, but it was forged in the first age. There is sooo much to be explored, but is left vague in Tolkien's writing.



Rána said:


> I'm also not sure how deeply into the other writings of Tolkien that a screenwriter would want to pull material from. _Morgoth's Ring_ is the volume that I've been looking at the most lately. There're some really compelling things in there about the case of Finwë and Míriel: good debate amongst the Valar about the situation... the two eventually find each other in the Halls of Mandos, she hears of all the events that have transpired so far and repents of her stubbornness. She's able to take up a new form as a servant of Vairë, weaving the record of the glorious tragedies of the House of Finwë. She's a way more interesting character than what ends up in the published _Silmarillion_... do you add to the run-time by trying to include some of that story? That's just one example... I don't really know the material in _History of Middle-earth_ very well, there has to be some really amazing stuff that I don't know about.


I don't know that I would *show* that debate, but it should definitely be referenced. A flashback to what happened with Feanor's mother would definitely be included in the first season. I can't say for certain, because I have a few of the HoME series I have not read yet.

My biggest issue adapting it would be that the big finale (Voyage of Earendil and War of Wrath) is so brief, that it would require a bit of inventing on the writer's part.


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## Rána (Jan 29, 2018)

octoburn said:


> As a writer of comics, and a huge Tolkien fan, I disagree. The Music of the Ainur seems like something completely not suitable for almost any visual medium.



You could be right on that point, I don't have any grand ideas for how it should be visualized; even if I did, I don't have the hand to execute it. But if somebody has created art inspired by the concepts... I'd very much like to see it.




octoburn said:


> There is sooo much to be explored, but is left vague in Tolkien's writing.





octoburn said:


> My biggest issue adapting it would be that the big finale (Voyage of Earendil and War of Wrath) is so brief, that it would require a bit of inventing on the writer's part.



I've been having a minor discussion in a different forum about the mythology of Tolkien as a single voice compared to traditional mythologies as the blending of many voices. I have to believe that at some point in the distant future, the stories of Middle-earth will be a blending of many voices as well. Especially if they're going to remake _Lord of the Rings_ every 20-30 years. Much like the legends of Arthur and Robin Hood, alternate ideas will attach themselves and become affiliated with the whole. You have a closer attachment to the base material than somebody doing a reimagining 100 years from now. I trust you more when it comes to handling the lore. I've been warming up to the idea of other people adding their perspectives; like the building of the Sagrada Família, but in a literary sense.



I keep going to graphic novels because I'm extremely curious to see different visualizations of the material. Commenting about the tapestries of Míriel caused me to think of that as a visual style, I would like to see a collection of stories about the Noldor done as if the art was woven by her hand.
If I were a comic publisher, I think I would try to break the material up into collections and dish it out to different artists. I've played around on the surface of comics off and on through the years, I never went under water though. I never took to the stories of _OZ_ either... but I have the books of the Marvel adaptation because I really like the art.















I got into _The Goon_ because of the art of Eric Powell and the stuff that David Mack put out with _Kabuki: The Alchemy_ pulled me into that series. I like it as a medium where you can try some weird things.

Although I would be neither shocked nor upset by people who prefer to keep the visuals in a more straightforward fashion. Also, for the record, I'm not mentioning any of the above comics as if their style should be modeled for _The Silmarillion_. Only that I enjoy the diversity of style that graphic novels can offer. I don't know about the writing though... I can't say, "dish it out to different writers," with the same confidence as the art. I think that should be handled in a more deliberate manner.


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## octoburn (Jan 29, 2018)

Rána said:


> I've been having a minor discussion in a different forum about the mythology of Tolkien as a single voice compared to traditional mythologies as the blending of many voices. I have to believe that at some point in the distant future, the stories of Middle-earth will be a blending of many voices as well. Especially if they're going to remake _Lord of the Rings_ every 20-30 years. Much like the legends of Arthur and Robin Hood, alternate ideas will attach themselves and become affiliated with the whole. You have a closer attachment to the base material than somebody doing a reimagining 100 years from now. I trust you more when it comes to handling the lore. I've been warming up to the idea of other people adding their perspectives; like the building of the Sagrada Família, but in a literary sense.



This is, essentially, what Tolkien desired at first:



Tolkien said:


> “Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend [...] I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama. Absurd.



We know the ones he mainly painted vividly (B&L, CoH, Fall of Gondolin) while much of the first age is merely "sketched."



Rána said:


> I keep going to graphic novels because I'm extremely curious to see different visualizations of the material. Commenting about the tapestries of Míriel caused me to think of that as a visual style, I would like to see a collection of stories about the Noldor done as if the art was woven by her hand.
> 
> Although I would be neither shocked nor upset by people who prefer to keep the visuals in a more straightforward fashion. Also, for the record, I'm not mentioning any of the above comics as if their style should be modeled for _The Silmarillion_. Only that I enjoy the diversity of style that graphic novels can offer. I don't know about the writing though... I can't say, "dish it out to different writers," with the same confidence as the art. I think that should be handled in a more deliberate manner.



If done as Graphic Novels, I think the Miriel weavings would make great covers for each issue/volume.

The main art, I think something along the lines of what was done in the Dark Tower comics would be about as far as I'd go from "straightforward."












One writer, or a team in constant communication, both with each other and a main "showrunner" (to borrow a term from television; Editor-in-Chief perhaps?) type who oversees all the writing and art, would be preferable to simply dishing it out to different writers... that way, you could easily lose the path.

But, personally, given the chance, I'd write every word of it


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## Rána (Jan 30, 2018)

Talk about the gift of foresight. No one is laughing now. I like the art of _Dark Tower_ too, no issues with that.


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## Prince Ashitaka (Feb 2, 2018)

I always envisaged Silmarillion as a TV series. Similar to the scope as Game of Thrones. 

But I think they should start it out as a graphic novel just like Dark Towers to flesh out and develop the series. 

The TV series will need a serious amount of budget for the filming and CGI action scenes. It won't be cheap. Wouldn't like to see this turn into a TV series if it was cheaply done.


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## octoburn (Feb 2, 2018)

steven Wu said:


> I always envisaged Silmarillion as a TV series. Similar to the scope as Game of Thrones.
> 
> But I think they should start it out as a graphic novel just like Dark Towers to flesh out and develop the series.
> 
> The TV series will need a serious amount of budget for the filming and CGI action scenes. It won't be cheap. Wouldn't like to see this turn into a TV series if it was cheaply done.



Yes, I am starting to think that a Silmarillion TV series would be unrealistic, budget-wise. Even the first season, as I see it, would require a budget probably on par with what Game of Thrones has for the next season (around 10-$15 million an episode).

Currently, I envision about 6 seasons, each with about 8 episodes (10 per season might be stretching some stories out too much).

current plan:


*Season One: The Flight of the Noldor.*

Details the history from the making of the Silmarils up to Feanor's death.
*
Season Two: The Ruin of Beleriand
*
Would detail the Noldors settlement of Beleriand, including the building of Nargothrond and Gondolin, the rescue of Maedhros, up to the end of the Battle of Sudden Flame and the death of Fingolfin. Other various plot lines would include the Eol/Maeglin plot and the revelations of the Noldor's deeds against the Teleri in Valinor.
*
Season Three: Beren and Luthien.*
This would pick up shortly after season 2, following Barahir and Beren after the Battle. It would follow Beren through the Quest for the Silmaril and end with Luthien freeing Beren and herself from Mandos.
*
Season Four: Tears Unnumbered.
*
(Might be a shorter, 4-6 episode season, but I think it deserves it's own season, as the setup, the battle and it's aftermath take place over 2+ years' time.)
Following Beren and Luthien's gaining of the Silmaril, Maedhros and the Free Peoples decide on the attack against Angband. This will follow many, including Huor, Hurin, Turgon and the Noldor through the arranging, carrying through and following-up of the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.
*
Season Five: The Children of Hurin.*
Would follow pretty closely with the book, ending with the reunion of Hurin and Morwen. Though, it would likely need to be simplified a bit, split into two chapters, or one three-to-four-hour film.
*
Season Six: War of Wrath
*
Will follow Tuor from being a slave to Easterlings to the Fall of Gondolin and journey to the Mouths of Sirion. No shortage of material here, as two very detailed versions exist outside of the Silmarillion itself (in the BOLT and an abbreviated version in Unfinished Tales)

There will follow Earendil's meeting Elwing, their marriage and the birth of Elrond and Elros. This runs concurrent with Huor and Idril's departure by ship. Soon after we follow Earendil's own voyage, the Third Kinslaying, and Earendil and Elwing arriving at Valinor and the ensuing debate. End with the Valar pronouncing War on Morgoth and the raising of Vingilot.

The Host of Valinor makes war with Morgoth, destroying Angband, chaining Melkor and Earendil killing Ancalagon the Black. Followed by the theft of the Silmarils and death and wanderings of remaining Feanor's sons.


(Parts of seasons five and six would overlap, due to the timeline.)

This structure would work basically the same in a GN series, just with chapters" rather than "episodes."

Had an adaptational brain-fart a few days ago.

I considered trading Ungoliants role in the Silmarillion for Sauron. A. Sauron is very inactive for much of the beginning of Sil B. Sauron is recognizable and is a bit of a shapeshifter and C. Ungoliant disappears and never comes back.

But I saw my folly. Eliminating Ungoliant would take too much away from the mythology (Shelob, Mirkwood, the northern border of Doriath, etc.) to consider it. 

(Excuse the double-post. I hadforgotten I had the last reply already...)


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## Miguel (Aug 30, 2018)

I would like it to start with a long prologue like the video below. Then continue in a format similar like Galadriel narrates the prologue in _Fellowship_ but for longer sections. When the time comes, kick in the regular movie format intertwined with more narrated sections as needed.

The entire act wasn't available in English, sorry.


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## Blueduindain (Sep 17, 2018)

I think a TV show would be best;the lore is quite extensive,and goes over the history of arda. It would run for three seasons; Season 1 would be the first age, Season 2 would be the second age, and season 3 would be the third age. Also, since the silmarillion is basically a summary of events, the show would have to expand on things. 

Also, if they don't cast Marilyn Manson as Morgoth i will be pissed...


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## Miguel (Sep 17, 2018)

I can see why so many people would like a TV show but, i think this deserves much, much more than a TV show or PJ style movies. 
Also, Manson as Melko?, uh?, NO! lol.


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## Blueduindain (Sep 18, 2018)

Miguel said:


> I can see why so many people would like a TV show but, i think this deserves much, much more than a TV show or PJ style movies.
> Also, Manson as Melko?, uh?, NO! lol.


He won’t be wearing what he normally did back in the day! Besides, I like the Eldritch Abomination look rather than the Bishie one! Also, considering the role he plays in his music he would be perfect.


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## Miguel (Sep 18, 2018)

Blueduindain said:


> He won’t be wearing what he normally did back in the day! Besides, I like the Eldritch Abomination look rather than the Bishie one! Also, considering the role he plays in his music he would be perfect.



I have to admit i like this look. I'd imagine him singing 'The beautiful people in the Ainulindalë.





This guy's face is screaming "Vala" in this picture, I see him as either Melko (fair form), or Mandos. 






Sauron? lol





I actually like this guy's presence as Sauron, but i think Fassbender would do a better work acting wise.


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## Gilgaearel (Oct 1, 2018)

Silmarillion is so extended and has such many sub plots that the only way to be adapted would be only as a soap opera like series, with lets say two to three 60+ minutes episodes per week in order for its multiple characters and their individual stories to be developed as they should. 
I would arrange though the stories according to the Age that they took place, in other words in three different seasons. 

First season for the first Age, second season for the second Age and third season for the third Age excluding the War of the Ring.

All episodes would have to be produced in advance in order to avoid mistakes and inconsistencies not only in the plot lines but also on the actors and actresses looks. Shot in other words as a movie and cut on the post production in episodes that would be grouped by story line. I would avoid flashbacks because these would make extremely difficult for the audience to follow the story. I would merge with the sense of presenting side by side the stories that developed simultaneously at the same time frame.

I would go strictly by the original book and I wouldn't change the names to their alternative versions for the same reason. In order not to confuse the audience. 

Regarding the CGIs I would kept them as minimal as possible.There is nothing worst than watching films or series that look like console games excluding of course the first chapters of Silmarillion where it is presented the creation of Arda. 

Regarding the casting. I would pay attention to cast the right faces and not that much famous actors or actresses. Cate Blanchett for instance wasn't a good choice for the role of Galandriel, because she was already famous when she took that role and the make up/make over didn't change her appearance that much. So when you watched Galandriel you couldn't escape the notion that you were watching Cate Blanchett. This didn't happen for the majority of the other members of the Fellowship of the Ring that were not the super famous movie stars when they were cast for their roles and so it was easier for the viewers not to relate them with other roles. 

So I would pay more attention to cast interesting faces even if those were the faces of everyday people or people that you would consider impossible to get a part on these series, like singers, political personalities, models and such things. Actors wouldn't be excluded of course but I would prefer the not so well known ones. 

Regarding Marilyn Manson....Nope because he looks like his age and even the heaviest of make ups wouldn't be possible to hide this. 

Sillmarilion series, would have to cast literally an army of young people and not middle aged people especially on whatever has to do with the immortal beings and races. Elves Valars, Maias, and Numenorians would have to look by default young. It sounds a bit ageist but...well... that is how the whole book is like. 

Finally I would pay great attention to recreate the Middle Earth universe in a way to match with Peter Jackson's scenery. Not necessarily the N. Zealandish one but I would try to keep the buildings and costumes close to the first adaptations of Tolkien's books.

And that's about all.. I hope that I didn't forget something.


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