# What happens after they go over the sea?



## gimli_alvevenn (Mar 18, 2002)

*What happens after the go over sea?*

I had the sorrow today to finish the book for my first time. The greef is still near, but I have the heart to ask if anyone knows what is going to happen in the land in the west?


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## Beleg Strongbow (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: What happens after the go over sea?*



> _Originally posted by gimli_alvevenn _
> *I had th sorrow today to finish the book for my first time. The greef is still near, but I have the heart to ask if anyone knows what is going to happen in the land in the west? *




Not that much. They will cure there sickness and then live merryily for a while and then die. U should read the silmarillion it is all about that erea and the ages before the 3rd age. It is great.


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## Grond (Mar 18, 2002)

As Beleg points out, the Hobbits pass over the Sea into the Uttermost West and finally come to Valinor, home of the Eldar and the Vala. Their wounds are healed and they are allowed to live out their remaining time in peace and love. I can think of no more wonderful place to spend my life than in Valinor.

P. S. Sam gets to go there too. In the appendix, it states that after Mistress Rose dies, Sam takes one of the last ships and sails to Valinor also. I often wonder if Samwise, Frodo, Legolas and Gimli were able to reunite before they died as all of them ended up in Valnor.


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## Ged (Mar 19, 2002)

Personally, I always read "going into the west" as being Tolkien's gentle way of saying "they died". Valinor was perhaps the ME equivalent of "heaven", and mortals don't go to heaven until they are dead.

This also made sense in the context of the ringbearers. Those who carried the rings carried a great burden and paid the ultimate price.


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## Grond (Mar 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ged _
> *Personally, I always read "going into the west" as being Tolkien's gentle way of saying "they died". Valinor was perhaps the ME equivalent of "heaven", and mortals don't go to heaven until they are dead.
> 
> This also made sense in the context of the ringbearers. Those who carried the rings carried a great burden and paid the ultimate price. *


Sorry, Ged buy you are wrong. The Elven ships sailed from the Grey Havens and went to Eressea which is like heaven. It is the place where the Vala, Maia and Faithful Eldar of the Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri still lived. In Tolkien's later writings, the author explains that Frodo, Bilbo, Samwise and Gimli were given special dispensation by the Vala to live in Valar and became the only people of the race of Man (Hobbits) and Dwarves to be allowed such grace.

I am at work and don't have my books with me but I will give you the quotes tonight.


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## Ged (Mar 19, 2002)

Grond, I respect your view, but I still think you are wrong.


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## Grond (Mar 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ged _
> *Grond, I respect your view, but I still think you are wrong. *


From _The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter #181 written some time in 1956_,

*...The passage over Sea is not Death. The 'mythology' is Elf-centered. According to it there was at first an actual Earthly Paradise, home and realm of the Valar, as a physical part of the earth.*

From _The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter #154 written on 25 September, 1954_,

*...But in the story it is supposed that there may be certain rare exceptions (to the ban of the Valar) or accomodations (legitimately supposed? there always seem to be exceptions); and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel.

I have said nothing about it in this book, but the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' - of free will, and leave the world...*

From _The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter #246 written in September 1963_,

*...Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him - if that could be done, before he died. He would eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spend still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.*

As you can see Ged, Grond speaks the truth.


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## Eonwe (Mar 19, 2002)

see, you shouldn't have been Morgoth's hammer, you should have been his lawyer!


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## Grond (Mar 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Eonwe _
> *see, you shouldn't have been Morgoth's hammer, you should have been his lawyer!  *


I was... am... will be...


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## Camille (Mar 19, 2002)

I found what you post very interesting thanks Grond.


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