# Nazgul incompotent?



## Treebeard (Jan 27, 2002)

As far as I can see, the Nazgul do nothing in LoTR but gallop around like the wind, being eluded and outsmarted at every turn by the fellowship. Plus, they are supposed to inspire fear, but they are very easily frightened themselves! "Fear, fire, foes!" indeed. I mean, five of them are turned away by Strider alone on Whethertop.


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## Harad (Jan 27, 2002)

The Nazgul suck.
They are supposed to be drawn to the OneRing but one of them misses it when Frodo is walking thru the Shire...he gallops off in the wrong direction. Then a group of Them attack at Crickhollow several days after the Ring has left.

Sauron has crummy henchmen, because they are so poorly paid: "Minimum Wages of Sin"


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## GladrielElf1985 (Jan 27, 2002)

Interesting observation Treebeard! I've never thought about this before. I personally have always been frightened by The Wraiths. But thats just me.


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## Beleg Strongbow (Jan 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GladrielElf1985 _
> *Interesting observation Treebeard! I've never thought about this before. I personally have always been frightened by The Wraiths. But thats just me. *




It still seems to scare most people out of their wits and remember Aragorn is the last of his kind and the greatest man alive!


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## Silmiel (Jan 27, 2002)

Sure, they were turned away in Buckland when the horn cry went up, but here's a quote from the book: 

"_But the Black Riders rode like a gale to the North-gate. Let the little people blow! Sauron would deal with them later. Meanwhile they had another errand: they knew now that the house was empty and the Ring had gone. They rode down the guards at the gate and vanished from the Shire._"

It is obvious that they were not cowardly, but meerly didn't want to deal with every hobbit in Buckland at that moment. Why waste their time? That was not their purpose. Their goal was to take the Ring, give it back to Sauron, and then he could do the Bucklanders as he wished. The Ring was no longer there, so they left to retrieve it. Does that sound so cowardly?

As for Weathertop, the Riders were not expecting to have any problem in taking the ring. They wanted it to be swift and ruthless, and did not expect any opposition. Why risk anything? Why not wait until all nine of their companions were there and avoid any risk of harm? 

Perhaps they are cowardly, in their own right. But they are (or were) powerful, and besides, if Aragorn didn't scare them all off of Weathertop, the story would have ended there. That wouldn't have been too great, now would it?


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## Firiel (Jan 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Treebeard _
> *As far as I can see, the Nazgul do nothing in LoTR but gallop around like the wind, being eluded and outsmarted at every turn by the fellowship. Plus, they are supposed to inspire fear, but they are very easily frightened themselves! "Fear, fire, foes!" indeed. I mean, five of them are turned away by Strider alone on Whethertop. *



Whethertop: They thought the deed was done- a human or elf would have succumed in a couple of days to that wound, even though it missed the heart. Hobbit-resilience put them out of their recconing. They weren't "scared off" by Strider alone, but didn't see the point in open battle when they expected Frodo to fade so quickly despite what his friends could do- a miscalculation and an error in judgment most definitely, but Aragorn would not have been able to fight off five single-handedly if they throught they had reason to stay.

Fear, Fire, Foes, Awake: They were not fleeing the Bucklanders, they were chasing the ringbearer. Why hang around in Buckland after the ring had gone?

I'm sure this doens't explain every incident that sparked your post, but I don't think it's _quite_ as bad as you make it out.


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## Aldanil (Jan 27, 2002)

As "Tree-Friend" it gives me rather a shooting sharp pain (in the snide) having solemn occasion to whisper this sort of thing to an orthographically-challenged old Onod like yourself, Master Fangorn, but on the sly I've heard tell, besides freezing the blood with a soul-quelling horror, that these same fell Ulairi can't even all of them spell!



(Should I turn myself in to yon ReadWryt, I wonder?)  


And while we're on the subject of purported Nazgul-inadequacies, let all those lovers of Legolas who yearn to let a thousand Orlandos bloom (silly rabbit -- segues are for kids!) lowly lament yet another cinematic sad snip-job: in the shoot-em-up movie, our bright-eyed Elvish bowman alas bags him no Ringwraith...


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## andromeda (Jan 28, 2002)

no kidding! and when the hobbits are hiding behind the tree after leaving the shire, that one nazgul comes down the road, and he's like sniffing around, and doesn't even find them when they are right under his nose!


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## Grond (Jan 28, 2002)

Hey!!! These guys have been alive for 4200 years. Maybe they just have a bad case of Alzheimer's.


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## DreamingDragon (Jan 28, 2002)

Of course the Nazgul are incompetent....they were ignorant enough to be duped by Sauron into taking the rings because of their greed, never once weighing the consequences.....

Besides..they're men aren't they?? (Just a little joke!! I personally love men!!!)


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## Tyaronumen (Jan 29, 2002)

Well, I think it could definitely be said that the Nazgul were limited in their abilities and uses.


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## Rosie Cotton (Jan 29, 2002)

> five of them are turned away by Strider alone on Whethertop.


They didn't leave Weathertop until Frodo was stabbed. The ringwraiths thought that Frodo was wounded so baddly that he would soon be under their power..... they had no way of knowing that Frodo wouldn't be effected quickly, and that his friends would be able to get him to Rivindell. 

I think the nazgul came pretty darn close to getting the ring- they just weren't thorough enough.


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## Evenstar (Jan 29, 2002)

You know... I've never thought about it before but they are kind of incompetant. I don't really believe they arecowardly but a little inadequate, yes. I mean I know they were in the Shire and could not catch the hobbits who were on foot while they were riding swift horses. What's the deal here?


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## Tyaronumen (Jan 29, 2002)

Evenstar -- the poor widdle Nazgul were scahed of day.


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## Mormegil (Jan 29, 2002)

Incompetant....

I mean what do you expect from nine undead men who must feel so stupid about being enslaved by Sauron.


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## Mithrandir (Jan 30, 2002)

It seems a lot of people here have only seen the movie, cause Strider didn't do that in the book, so....... just tell me if I am wrong, I know Rosie is not one.
~Mithers


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## graen (Jan 30, 2002)

*The Nazgul missing Frodo in the shire*

Perhaps the ring itself was working to thwart the Nazgul from finding it in the Shire. It is in the hands of some worthless dupe (Frodo) who has finally succombed and is heading East with the ring toward Sauron. Maybe it felt it had better chances of reaching Sauron safely in the hands of a weak hobbit over being claimed by one of the Nazgul.


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## DreamingDragon (Jan 30, 2002)

The Nazgul were bound to the ring through their greed...so technically they SHOULD have been the perfect tools for retrieving it. However (and I can't quite recall exactly what was said) it seems to me they were quite the bumbling group, and Sauron was losing his patience, particularly after one of the Nazgul had had several horses shot out from under him....


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## Treebeard (Feb 4, 2002)

I am certainly not one on those who has only seen the movie. As I recall, Strider did have to defend Weathertop alone (he certainly didn't get any help from the hobbits). I understand that the ringwraths thought they had Frodo just where they wanted him, but come on, I'm sure Sauron would not have approved of their methods. They practically had the ring in their grasp...but the lord of the Nazgul...MISSED! He was trying to stab Frodo in the heart, if I recall correctly. If at first you don't succeed...run away?!?


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## Merry (Feb 4, 2002)

The Nazgul were not incompetent in my opinion. They were out smarted and out-fought by resilient worthy characters. You could say that the Nazgul were ineffective, but not incompetent. Also remeber that they were neither alive nor dead, they would not have had the mental speed of a frightened hobbit or a king of kings.

The film made the Nazgul look stupid but that doesn't do the book justice.


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## Merlin (Feb 4, 2002)

Are you kidding me?? The Nazguls were the scariest part in the book IMO. I could just hear their 'screams' and it would send chills down my spine. What they did in Weathertop was militarily smart in theory. I just think they were too *over confident*, and like other people have said, they thought Frodo would pass quickly. They were my biggest fear throughout almost the entire book even when they were not really 'there' and the coolest bad guys. The fact that they are men makes it even more intriguing.


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## TulKas Astaldo (Feb 4, 2002)

If they wanted to be so swift on Weathertop, why did they use a poisoned dagger? Personally I just would have cut him in half and be done with it.

Then again, it was pathetic how Merry, Sam, and Pippin fought them off for about 5 seconds when earlier in the movie they were killing people left and right...


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## Evenstar (Feb 6, 2002)

posted by Merry-


> The Nazgul were not incompetent in my opinion. They were out smarted and out-fought by resilient worthy characters. You could say that the Nazgul were ineffective, but not incompetent. Also remeber that they were neither alive nor dead, they would not have had the mental speed of a frightened hobbit or a king of kings.



True Aragorn, Frodo and compay were resiliant characters but as for the Nazgul not having the mental speed of a frightnened hobbit- isn't their lack of mental ability or sharpness supporting their incompetance?


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## Treebeard (Feb 6, 2002)

I agree with you, Merlin. The Nazgul certainly were frightening. And yet, when it came right down to it, they simply could't get the job done. That's incompotance.


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## dgoof911 (Feb 6, 2002)

If they cant (technically) die, why were they so afarid to fight Aragorn. If he burnt their capes, wouldnt there just be a invisible naked Nazgul with the same powers ad potential? If he cut them with his sword, would they be harmed by it? Do they feel pain? Do they have fear? I am confused now.


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## HLGStrider (Feb 6, 2002)

AH but they were facing my Strider... Strider is the greatest of the great... 
"NO NO! Bad Sauron. My Plantir! Hands off..." 
If he can battle wits with Sauron he can take on a few invisible cronies. He is what they once were... Except perfect... 
Aragorn was a great man, as has been said before. The Wraith's weren't incapable of fear. They knew they were facing something great and they'd already got the knife into him, so they were playing it safe, avoiding the heir of Isuldur and waiting for that weak little creature to bring the fool to them... 
"Your over confidence is your weakness, Mr. Nazgul," Aragorn says calmly.
"Your faith in your friends is yours," the Nazgul says with a disgusted snarl. He then tosses Aragorn a light saber... Oh boy... am I getting off subject... It is sacrilege to compare Aragorn to Luke. Luke wasn't anything like my perfect Aragorn... Am I getting carried away here?
I always thought that it was the daylight that hampered the search through the Shire, Aragorn said they were blinded by the noon time sun. 
By the way, did anyone get the point of the squirmy things coming out of the bank in the movie? That was not in the book... unless I am having some amnesia... and it made absolutely no sense. Was the Nazgul calling those things, attracting those things, are scaring those things?


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## dgoof911 (Feb 6, 2002)

Well, all the worms and bugs coming out of the ground was supposed to show that every thing that is around the wraiths are effected by its evilness. 

Could the heir of Isildur kill one of the Nazgul? I thought that they were not able to be detroyed.


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## Snaga (Feb 6, 2002)

Have you noticed that only two people ever get physically attacked by the Nazgul: Frodo and Eowyn. Normally they rely on fear. Aragorn wasn't frightened.

Maybe they didn't have any other weapons with them. In which case they were ill-equipped. And therefore incompetent! 

Or perhaps, and this is an interesting theory, Sauron only let them take ice-knives, so they couldn't kill Frodo and take the ring themselves??? Maybe he wants him alive. (I'm not convinced by that BTW)


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## Grond (Feb 6, 2002)

Although I never understood why it wasn't used earlier, I always thought that the "Black Breath" which almost proved to be deadly to Faramir, Eowyn and Merry was the greatest weapon of the Nazgul. But maybe I missed something in the translation.


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## Snaga (Feb 6, 2002)

Hmmm yes, not much toothpaste in Minas Morgul methinks!


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## HLGStrider (Feb 6, 2002)

I think they attack Faramir too, if you'll remember, though I admit they seem to have a great psychological effect.
I don't think Aragorn could've destroyed them right then (He was only human, though perfect...), but they could've been unmasked or unmade or whatever the phrase is. You know, like at the Ford. Having to flee home and recuperate. I'm sure that could happen to them. Besides, why take chances with this nut with the brands when you've already got your knife into the little rat? 
I think that the Nazguls could fear. They feared Sauron, but they also feared Glorfindel, I think Aragorn, and probably Eowyn in that one minute... They disliked the name Elbereth. If a hobbit can repel them with a word, imagine what Aragorn could do.


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## riverwarder (Feb 20, 2002)

The Nazgul are not exactly incompetent if Sauron had ordered them to take Middle Earth by storm they would have ,but I don't think he wanted to let everyone know he was back yet. As to the incident on Weather Top it was really the words O Elbereth Gilthnielt that defeated the Ring Wraiths. Varda being more powerfull than even their master would naturrally have given them cause to flee. Though it is true that Aragorn did help at Weather Top he himself feared them if you recall when he spoke with the hobbits at Bree. Also in the Shire when they encountered the first Rider in the wood it was really the elven song that he ran from. In the movie many things happened that did not happen in the books. We can not jugde with this as a basis because Holly Wood must make the movie appeal to the generall public and no wants to watch a movie where the hero has to continnually get rescued.


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## HLGStrider (Feb 22, 2002)

Great point and arguement, River... You solved it. You get the HLG reward of a big smile


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## Grond (Feb 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by riverwarder _
> *The Nazgul are not exactly incompetent if Sauron had ordered them to take Middle Earth by storm they would have ,but I don't think he wanted to let everyone know he was back yet. As to the incident on Weather Top it was really the words O Elbereth Gilthnielt that defeated the Ring Wraiths. Varda being more powerfull than even their master would naturrally have given them cause to flee. Though it is true that Aragorn did help at Weather Top he himself feared them if you recall when he spoke with the hobbits at Bree. Also in the Shire when they encountered the first Rider in the wood it was really the elven song that he ran from. In the movie many things happened that did not happen in the books. We can not jugde with this as a basis because Holly Wood must make the movie appeal to the generall public and no wants to watch a movie where the hero has to continnually get rescued. *


So the riders would have stormed Middle-earth at Sauron's command but the good Elves and Men of the world needed only sing some Elven songs or invoke the name of Elbereth and they would turn tail and run. I guess that makes sense.


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## Eonwe (Feb 22, 2002)

without Sauron wearing the One Ring, I wonder how sort-of blind they were. I mean the power in the Ring is what keeps them going, what makes Sauron their master. Sort of like a mouse that you wind up and let go, good luck if it does what you planned (sorry squeeky).

Maybe with Sauron with the One Ring on, they would be (less) like the keystone cops. I wonder how baaaaad they were in the Last Alliance battles?


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## Minas (Feb 23, 2002)

The Nazgul attack Gandalf on Weathertop I though and then they also attack Boromirs brother. They do rely on fear, normally to get the orcs to do all the hard work for them.


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## HLGStrider (Mar 1, 2002)

I don't see what it's so  that "Elbereth!" and elf song could chase them away, Grond. 

Remember what Luthien did to Sauron and Melkor by singing!!!

Words have special powers in these books, especially elf words or those in the form of song. I think it is an excellent explanation.

Where Frodo wasn't nearly as powerful as Luthien I think it evens up because the Riders out in the middle of nowhere with their master blinded by the lack of ring weren't as powerful as Sauron and Melkor sitting in their palaces. Anyway, I wouldn't snub the theory. I like it!!! 

horray for the theory!!!


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## Grond (Mar 1, 2002)

Strider, I think that Elbereth is the most beautiful name in the entirety of the works of JRRT. That's my opinion. But, if all one needs to ward off evil is invoke her name then everyone would do it, and like Paul Atreides said in the Frank Herbert novel _Dune_, "I can kill you with a word!" On Dune, it is the power of the Kwisatz Haderach that spells doom, on Middle-earth one need only invoke the name of Elbereth and Sauron is defeated. 

Sorry if that just seems a tad bit too easy to me.


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## Harad (Mar 1, 2002)

In a world where Magic works, I wouldnt entirely dismiss the power of an invocation. Remember, that Sam whips some pretty LARGE spider butt using in part a similar invocation. That being said, its probably not the invocation alone, but it may add a cumulative effect, like Gandalf's white horses in the flood.

Still the idea that the Nazgul got what they wanted at Weathertop is possible: they thought Frodo was wounded and would become a wraith. Even that is hard to accept however, since if Frodo is still among the Elves and Aragorn, and if he did become a wraith, what is to stop his former buddies from taking the Ring from him? Shirley the Nazgul's idea wasnt to just harm Frodo--rather to recover the Ring.

The even worse "incompetence" is in the Shire where a lone Nazgul gets to within 100 cm of the Ruling Ring, then without reason, gallops off.


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## HLGStrider (Mar 2, 2002)

I still like the idea... 

Perhaps that was just a scout Nazgul who had to report to HQ (head quarters, of course), Harad.


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## Harad (Mar 2, 2002)

Maybe..

But werent each of the Nazgul powerful kings of Men. Shirley even the least of these shouldnt be hesitant to seize the Ring from one or two hobbits.

Didnt his superiors trust him to return the Ring to them? Maybe Evil doesnt have much initiative.


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## HLGStrider (Mar 3, 2002)

Would you trust a dark rider??? Or are you one??

You can join dark rider's annoymous (sorry, can't spell...)
1-888-6Wr-aith


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## Úlairi (Mar 4, 2002)

*How dare you!*

   How dare you say that I suck, well I don't. Before I entered this forum I did some extensive search on the Ulairi (Nazgul) and I believe I can answer this one. The Nazgul were not incompetent. If you have read UT it says that the Nazgul were tricked by Saruman, who claimed to be an ally of Sauron. Saruman said he did not know where the Shire was. That was not true, Saruman bought his weed from there! This mislead the Morgul-lord. It also says that when the nine were together they were unbeatable. They broke down Gondors barrier to Eriador and they were so quick they managed to nearly catch Frodo at the Buckleberry Ferry. They rode like the wind. Five of them were defeated on Weathertop simply because the Morgul-lord wasn't there and they all weren't together. Remember the prophecy of the Lord of the Nazgul that no man i.e. Aragorn could kill the Morgul-lord!!!


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## Harad (Mar 4, 2002)

> Yet Sauron was ever guileful, and it is said that among those whom he ensnared with the Nine Rings three were great lords of Númenórean race. And when the Úlairi arose that were the Ring-wraiths, his servants, and the strength of his terror and mastery over Men had grown exceedingly great, he began to assail the strong places of the Númenóreans upon the shores of the sea



This quote from the Sil is rather odd. Its either a typo or it says that "three" of the Ulairi were great lords. But 3 or 9, to fall back on the idea that 1 or 5 of these wraiths were no match for either a couple of hobbits or a couple of hobbits and one man with some torches, really makes you wonder about their power.


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## Grond (Mar 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Harad _
> *This quote from the Sil is rather odd. Its either a typo or it says that "three" of the Ulairi were great lords. But 3 or 9, to fall back on the idea that 1 or 5 of these wraiths were no match for either a couple of hobbits or a couple of hobbits and one man with some torches, really makes you wonder about their power. *


I miss your point Harad. It says that three were great lords of the Numenorean race. We can assume the other 6 were great lords of the races of Harad, Rhun and Khand. Khamul, Lt. of the Nazgul, was called Khamul the Easterling and his name would imply that he was not Numenorean. I'm sure that the Witch-king probably was Numenorean but we'll never know for sure.

Whatever your point, I am in agreement that, in retrospect, they seem pretty wimpy while hunting the Hobbits and then turn nearly invincible during the battle of Minas Tirith. If they had the "black breath" in Gondor and Mordor, you would think that they had it while cruising in the Shire.


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## Greenwood (Mar 4, 2002)

> If they had the "black breath" in Gondor and Mordor, you would think that they had it while cruising in the Shire.



They had the Black Breath at Bree. At the Prancing Pony, in the chapter "Strider" when Merry is reporting his encounter outside the inn with strange figures, he reports passing out and he says he does not know what came over him. Strider says: "I do. The Black Breath."


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## Grond (Mar 4, 2002)

So the explanation being that it gets stronger as the Nazgul get closer to Mordor? The black breath is not used in the Shire. It is used in Bree to simply incapacitate a Hobbit, but in the battle of Gondor it is a weapon of death? It doesn't appear that the "black breath" is either logically explained or logically used.


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## Greenwood (Mar 4, 2002)

I take no position on the logic/illogic of the Black Breath and its potency in various parts of the LOTR. I merely point out that the Black Breath is mentioned in the Bree chapter. Perhaps the Nazgul can control the strength of the Black Breath (like pulling a punch). The goal in Bree was to capture a hobbit, in Gondor it was to kill. Personally, I always found the Nazgul to be pretty fearsome. But if Tolkien makes them all knowing and invincible the story ends before you ever leave Hobbiton!


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## HLGStrider (Mar 5, 2002)

THEY SCARED ME!!!

When reading through the books a second time at 14, I was so scared I could feel them creeping up on me when I was alone in the house playing minesweeper and thinking about them... creepy creepy creepy


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## Minas (Mar 6, 2002)

I had always imagined that before their Horses got drown at Rivendell Ford the Nazgul were trying to go quietly, gathering info and if possible plucking the hobbit for their master.
After they were able to ride their winged beasts ME was openly gearing for war and all cards were available to be played.


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## HLGStrider (Mar 6, 2002)

I've thought of that too... They weren't preparing to cause war. They were undercover...


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## Úlairi (Mar 7, 2002)

That is correct! Sauron wanted the Nazgul (Ulairi) to be undercover, in fact, when the Nazgul first looked for the ring it says in UT:



> 'The Lord of Morgul therefore led his companions over Anduin, unclad and unmounted, and invisible to eyes, and yet a terror to all living things that they passed near.'



Well, I hope that explains something!


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## Tar-Palantir (Mar 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ulairi _
> *   That is correct! Sauron wanted the Nazgul (Ulairi) to be undercover, in fact, when the Nazgul first looked for the ring it says in UT:
> 
> 
> ...



But they weren't so undercover when they reached the Shire. One rode right up and talked to the Gaffer; same with Maggot. And at Bree, they were obviously talking to some of the more shady locals.


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## Bill the Pony (Mar 10, 2002)

Two interesting quotes form Unfinished Tales (in a different version of the story Ulairi quotes from)
Christopher Tolkien chose these as 'other versions', so he seems to have decided that these are not his father's final thoughts.



> At length therefore he resolved to use the Ringwraiths. He had been reluctant to do so, until he knew precisely where the Ring was, for several reasons. They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held; they were quite incapable of acting against his will, and if one of them, even the Witch-king their captain, had seized the One Ring, he would have brought it back to his Master, But they had disadvantages, until open war began (for which Sauron was not yet ready). All except the Witch-king were apt to stray when alone by daylight; and all, again save the Witch-King, feared water, and were unwilling, except in dire need, to enter it or to cross streams unless dryshod by a bridge.





> Of Khamûl it is said here that he was the most ready of all the Nazgûl after the Black Captain himself, to perceive the presence of the Ring, but also the one whose power was most confused and diminished by daylight



Conclusion: everybody is right: Nazgul are competent at night and incompetent by day?


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## Harad (Mar 10, 2002)

Well then...

Its a comedy of errors on both sides. Sauron sends 9 hunters, 8 of whom:



> were apt to stray when alone by daylight



At least most of the chase took place after the autumnal equinox.


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## HLGStrider (Mar 10, 2002)

I wonder what he should've sent??? What would've been better or scarier?

A bunch of orcs? Too obvious. Too bumbling. Not nearly trustworthy enough...

Some human slave? Again not nearly trustworthy enough...

I can see Sauron getting frustrated. "I can't trust anybody. I'll just have to go do it myself..."

I think they were good but incredibly limited. After all, poor Sauron is forced to deal with amatuers in the cause of all great evil...


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## Úlairi (Mar 12, 2002)

I believe that the Nazgul were the perfect choice, things would have been different if Sauron had done it himself, it would be inevitable, Sauron would have gotten the ring in no time and hence the end of the book. Harad's point of the autumnal equinox was very good, days were shorter and nights were longer (hmmmm, I wonder if Sauron ever took that into account!). One point though is, the Nazgul rode those bird-like creatures during the day, yet they did not really stray, now, if stray means to "stray in mind" than they would have crashed their steeds into a tree, or rode there horses off a cliff (ok, perhaps not!) but if they strayed, they didn't very much, for they always showed up at pivotal times in the book!


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## Úlairi (Mar 12, 2002)

In answer to your question HLGStrider, the Nazgul were probably better because they were trustworthy (because the had no will of their own!) Sauron also probably knew of the existence of Gandalf and that he would have something to do with the Ring, so he needed servants powerful enough to contend with him! Does that answer your question?


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## HLGStrider (Sep 29, 2003)

another old jewel back from the dead. ..


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## Thuringwethil (Oct 2, 2003)

Some incoherent and vague observations.. (I'm tired and my mind is absent, sorry about that.)

Ulairi incompetent? Hardly.. But limited. Nazguls are not flesh and blood, they're ghosts and ghosts have "different rules".

Shire encounters: the first happens at afternoon. Nazgul's powers are severely diminished during daylight, blurring their senses etc. Similar to human searching someone in dark.

Second encounter takes place at night, and nazgul seems more determined. However, he is interrupted by the elves. A bunch of high elves, to be exact. A lone wraith is no match to them. Yes, that carefree lot having their picnic is surely capable to defend themselves. And there is the song about Elbereth, wich seems to have an "exorcistic" effect.

Weathertop: Amon Sul is sort of "homefield" for Aragorn, a former major fortress of his (lost) kingdom. Witch-King wrecked it yes, but was also driven away later. "Homefield" gives an obvious psychological edge, plus in Tolkien's world also a "magical" one. Then Aragorn knows how to fight wraiths (NOT like in movie, btw, imo, etc), and he has "revenge bonus" to tone down his fear (history of Arnor, plus dead rangers at ford of Sarn). Nazguls can be harmed by fire, not destroyed but stripped. Hobbits wield "wraith-slaying" knives. Elbereth is called upon. None of these things alone propably wouldn't been enough, but together they make uncomfortable battlefield for nazguls. And they already managed to inflict a wound that no one in history has survived. Nazguls are not berzerkers, they have much sense of self-preservation. In their place I would've done the same thing; retreat, wait, and strike again later.

About undercover; they were undercover up north. They were "disguised as riders in black", and most people thought they were living men, only foreign travellers. In reality they were undead lords and sorcerors. When a ghost succesfully pretends to be alive, that's undercover for me.

Nazguls aren't called the Nine for nothing. When there's let's say five of them present, there is just five of them. But when they gather all under their Captain, they are 'The Nine', much more than a sum of their numbers. They pulled a draw against Gandalf at Weathertop. Through that night the wizard was in deep.. trouble. Sunrise propably saved him. And his effort of drawing some of wraiths away from Weathertop propably saved hobbits&Aragorn. And maybe the battle weared the nazguls down too.

So if one knows what to do with a nazgul, it's possible to fight them (Aragorn, Gandalf). But if one takes them as another big bad cronie, one's gonna end as a cold corpse in the dark.. Earnur and even Boromir (the older one) made this mistake; they didn't know what their foe was, and fell. (And Earnur even after he was warned _several times_. Darwin award coming..  )

Much more to say but not enough brains to write it.. Hope I had a point there somewhere; good luck finding it.


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