# Orcs vs Elves and Others



## acrylonitrile (Feb 27, 2002)

Rank the following in terms of combat effectiveness:

- 100 Uruk Hai
- 100 Rohirrim (mounted)
- 100 Elvish Archers
- 100 Roman Legionnaires
- A company from the U.S. 101st Airborne, ca. WWII (armed with a M-1 Garand or Thompson SMG, plus a few support weapons: light mortars, LMGs, bazookas)
- All nine Nazgul on their winged mounts
- All nine Nazgul, flying Ju 87 Stukas

Maybe this is an off-the-wall topic, but I've always been fascinated with Middle Earth and wondered what it would be like if I were to go there (or, how would they feel/act if elves or orcs showed up in 20th Century America). Part of this is how would magic and technology interact? Would magic always supersede technology (any projectile you fired at Sauron would bounce off because you're mortal and he's a magical immortal) or would they intersect at some level (a crossbow bolt or .22 bullet would deflect, but he's affected by, say, a tank cannon).

How does the order change if, for example, the elves are
- in some mundane setting, like the muddy fields of Agincourt
- defending the eaves of Lothlorien, with a resolute Galadriel at their backs, wielding Nenya?

I eagerly/fearfully await the wisdom and insights of the Tolkien scholars at this site….

(Why Stukas? Because, like the Nazgul, a large part of their effectiveness was their psychological impact.)


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## baraka (Feb 27, 2002)

Hi acrylonitrile, i bid you welcome to this forum. 

Very interesting question indeed:
I would rate them:

1. A company from the U.S. 101st Airborne
2. All nine Nazgul, flying Ju 87 Stukas. (Is Ju 87 Stukas a plane?)
3. 100 Elvish Archers
4. 100 Rohirrim (mounted) 
5. 100 Uruk Hai 
6. All nine Nazgul on their winged mounts 
7. 100 Roman Legionnaires. (I think that they would be terrified of the nazgul and the uruk hai).

I don´t think that the nazgul could defeat an entire army by themselves. They need some soldiers also, but they would certainly terrify some of their enemies.

Terrain:
If you read Sun Tzu´s "Art of War", there is an entire section mentioning the importance of the terrain.

Ex: If you could make the Rohirrim pass to a very narrow path, they would not be very efective and say the elves could take them out very quickly!


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## Beleg Strongbow (Feb 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by baraka _
> *Hi acrylonitrile, i bid you welcome to this forum.
> 
> Very interesting question indeed:
> ...


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## acrylonitrile (Feb 28, 2002)

Thank you for the replies.

The Ju 87 Stuka was a German dive bomber that was very effective during the early stages of World War II. It made a distinctive howling noise as it dove downward on its bombing run; this tended to demoralize the troops below (in addition to the bombs it was dropping). This ability to strike terror into the victim kind of coincides with what the Nazgul seem to do. 

The Stukas worked well when the Germans controlled the skies, but suffered rather badly as the war continued and the Allies got some fighter planes up to oppose them. If Legolas was flying a Spitfire Mk V, the Nazgul in Stukas would be toast.

A company of Rohirrim on horseback dispatches a band of Uruk Hai (the ones that have captured Merry & Pippen) in a fairly one-sided fashion in tTT.

I suspect that the disciplined, well-trained and well-equipped Roman legionnaires would beat the Uruk Hai, too, if they didn't get freaked out by their appearance.

In open ground during the daytime, it would be hard to beat the 101st Airborne troops, what with the much longer range of their rifles and machine guns. However, the ultra-quiet, nearly invisible and deadly shooting elvish archers would give the soldiers a very hard time in thick woods or at nighttime.

Which brings us back to the question of magic. If a Nazgul swept in on a big, stinky pterodactyl and cut loose with one of its bone-chilling shrieks, would it completely paralyze 20th century soldiers (that could face Tiger tanks, at least some of the time)? What if some of the soldiers got off a few shots anyway? Would these have a normal effect if they hit, or would the Nazgul and its mount be magically protected? (Legolas shot one down over the Anduin River, but his bow was fresh from Lothlorien and arguably magical).


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## baraka (Feb 28, 2002)

> The Ju 87 Stuka was a German dive bomber that was very effective during the early stages of World War II.



How about instead of it, not use a Gotha GO 229 FIGHTER.


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## christof (Feb 28, 2002)

Personally I wouldnt put a company from the 101st airborne so high - I think they would be just as terrified of the Nazgul as the Roman Legionaires.

Maybe its just because I'm not American.


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