# If Gandalf had met Frodo at Bree what would have changed?



## WizardKing (Jan 8, 2003)

i always wondered what everyones take would be on that one? any ideas?


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## MrFrodo (Jan 8, 2003)

They would have gone with Gandalf and Strider to rivendell....nothing more would have changed really.......


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## Celebthôl (Jan 8, 2003)

and Frodo most likely wouldnt have gotten stabbed by the morgul blade,


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## klugiglugus (Jan 8, 2003)

That would have had ripple effects...


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## Aragorn21 (Jan 8, 2003)

Like how?


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## BlackCaptain (Jan 8, 2003)

Like maybey, since the Blade's wound kept on hurting every year after the quest on the same day, (That was one of the reasons he went to Aman i believe), he might have been less inclined to go? Idunno... Thats the only ripple affect i can think of...


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## Smeagol#1 (Jan 8, 2003)

They would of never me Aragorn so he wouldn't have been part of the fellowship


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## Ghan-buri-ghan (Jan 8, 2003)

Frodo would have had a more interesting journey to Rivendell.

The question was, "If Frodo had met Gandalf at BREE"!!!!

When Frodo reached Bree, Aragorn had followed him there and was there with him. If Gandalf also was there, what a story! The nine riders would have attacked Gandalf the Gray and Heir of Isildur either at the Pony, or somewhere in the wilderness. 

Could these two incredible heroes have held out against the power of the Nine? Whew! I dunno! I bet. . . NO!

I think though, Wizardking really desires the answer to a different question, that is, 

"What would have happened if Butterbur had not delayed sending Gandalf's message and Frodo had received it at once."

Then, of course, Frodo would have reached Rivendell without incident, without Bombadil, without wounds, etc.


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## Gandalf White (Jan 10, 2003)

> If Gandalf also was there, what a story! The nine riders would have attacked Gandalf the Gray and Heir of Isildur either at the Pony, or somewhere in the wilderness. Could these two incredible heroes have held out against the power of the Nine? Whew! I dunno! I bet. . . NO!


 I can't really agree with this. 
Actually the wraiths did attack Weathertop twice, and it was probably them at Bree. The attack at Bree would have been weathered in the same way, but the Weathertop adventure would be different. Instead of Gandalf and Aragorn facing the 4 or 5 Ringwraiths at seperate times, they have their combined pwer, so the battle vs. the wraiths would have been easier, IMO.


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## Ghan-buri-ghan (Jan 10, 2003)

GandalfWhite said: 

Instead of Gandalf and Aragorn facing the 4 or 5 Ringwraiths at seperate times, they have their combined pwer, so the battle vs. the wraiths would have been easier, IMO.

Harrumph. err. Um. The Nazgul split up in Rohan. Some of em chased Gandalf, some of em entered the Shire and searched for the ring.

If Gandalf had met everybody at Bree, NINE (count em, 9) Ringwraiths would have attacked the party, either at Bree or at Weathertop. 

Gandalf held off four by himself, and these did NOT include the Witch-king, who was trailing Frodo. Could he have withstood Nine, including the Witch-King himself? The only help Aragorn could have provided, as shown in the Chapter "A Knife in the Dark" is to use torches to attack these shadows of fear. And the game, of course, was to protect the Ringbearer. 

I dunno. I respect Gandalf's power, and Aragorn's courage, but I dunno. I suspect that the Witch-King and his eight cohorts would have overpowered our heroes.


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## Gandalf White (Jan 10, 2003)

> 'I do not know, but it seems clear to me that this is what happened. Their Captain remained in secret away south of Bree, while two rode ahead through the village, and four more invaded the Shire. But when these were foiled in Bree and at Crickhollow, they returned to their Captain with tidings, and so left the Road unguarded for a while, except by their spies. The Captain then sent some eastward straight across country, and he himself with the rest rode along the Road in great wrath. 'I galloped to Weathertop like a gale, and I reached it before sundonw on my second day from Bree--and *they* were there before me. They drew away from me, for they felt the coming of my anger adn they dared not face it while the Sun was in the sky. But they closed round at night, and I was besieged on the hill-top, in the old ring of Amon Sul. I was hard put to it indeed: such light and flame cannot have been seen on Weatherto psince the war-beacons of old.'


 From this passage it definitely seems that Gandalf managed to fight off all 9. Of course, he had to run away, but the point is that he is capable! And with Aragorn to help......



Oh, BTW Ghan-thingy *1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9!* Yay, I can count to Nine, sheez


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## Wulf of Dunland (Jan 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gandalf White _
> *Oh, BTW Ghan-thingy *1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9!* Yay, I can count to Nine, sheez *



That's typing to nine!


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## Gandalf White (Jan 10, 2003)

Hmmmm, you're right!  You'll just have to believe that if I can type it, I can speak it!  

BTW, the passage I quoted is from The Fellowship of the Ring; Book 2, Chapter 2, The Council of Elrond, in case anyone was wondering.


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## Wulf of Dunland (Jan 10, 2003)

I wasnt really wondering... But thanks for the info 
(I read the books, but didnt learn them by heart)


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## gandalfthegreat (Jan 10, 2003)

Yeah I believe that the only thing that would of changed is that Frodo would not have been stabbed by the Morgul blade.

*-Gandalf*-


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## Confusticated (Jan 11, 2003)

If Gandalf showed up in Bree at the same time as the hobbits, would he have let the 3 extra tag along?
Considering the advice he gave Elrond about Merry and Pippin joining the fellowship, he might, but it seems foolish.

What do you guys think?

What would Gandalf have wanted, and would the hobbits have accepted?
If some of the hobbits turnd back for home, would Strider go with them?


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## Thorondor_ (May 15, 2005)

And where from would Merry get his blessed knife?


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## Arthur_Vandelay (May 16, 2005)

Thorondor_ said:


> And where from would Merry get his blessed knife?



His knife? You mean the one he picked up on the Barrow-downs?


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## Thorondor_ (May 16, 2005)

Yes, which was instrumental in the defeat of the Withcking


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## Corvis (May 29, 2005)

Here's one major thing to think about, if Gandalf met with Frodo at Bree then that would have meant something different happened at Orthanc with Saruman. Gandalf might've joined Saruman, or maybe nothing happened there at all and Gandalf was then going to take the Hobbits back there after Bree which would've meant that they would've been caught and the ring would then be given back to Sauron. There would be no LOTR trilogy then.


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## Thorondor_ (May 29, 2005)

Or maybe Gwaihir saved Gandalf sooner... but still, then it is very unlikely they would go through the old forest, and that Merry would get his magic knife to kill the witchking.


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## Hobbit-GalRosie (Jun 1, 2005)

Thorondor_ said:


> Or maybe Gwaihir saved Gandalf sooner... but still, then it is very unlikely they would go through the old forest, and that Merry would get his magic knife to kill the witchking.



I don't understand where you're coming from with this, Thorondor, the question is if Gandalf had met them at Bree, which I assume means there and not that he met them sooner or somehow got a message to them telling them he was there but now it was an emergency and they better stay away from that Old Forest place...I assume you realize that the deal with the knife happened _before_ they got to Bree?

Um, just so you know I'm not trying to talk down to you here, I just am having trouble understanding precisely what you mean.


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## Hammersmith (Jun 1, 2005)

Rosie, I think he's coming from the assumption that Barliman sends on Gandalf's message and they meet at Bree a considerable time before the way that it occurs in the book.

Alternatively, if Gandalf joining Saruman is a possibility for this scenario, what if Saruman joins Gandalf? In the Unfinished Tales Saruman nearly does; he is en route to beg Gandalf's forgiveness when Gandalf escapes. Saruman feels betrayed and abandons thought of repenting. What if Frodo is met at Bree by Gandalf and a repentant Saruman? What if the two wizards together marshall Rohan and march south? The Fellowship would certainly be unassailable, but there would also be a lot more chances for temptation by various characters. Interesting? I think so.


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## Thorondor_ (Jun 1, 2005)

"Rosie, I think he's coming from the assumption that Barliman sends on Gandalf's message and they meet at Bree a considerable time before the way that it occurs in the book." Yes, that is mainly the scenario I considered. I think that Saruman joining the Fellowship is a very dangerous thing, I am not sure Gandalf would approve it. I don't agree that they would be unassailable; perhaps Saruman's main motivation would be to get hold of the ring, rather than help destroying. I must agree this is a very interesting hypothesis.


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