# Tolkien debates



## Ithrynluin (Sep 30, 2005)

Who is interested in forming teams, debating about Tolkien topics and generally having fun by coming up with interesting aspects of certain issues to defend your side of the argument? 

This could be similar to the debate tournament we had some time ago, but it can be more relaxed, and it needn't be a tournament at all. 

So, who is interested in debating, whether in just having one debate, an occasional one, or many?

If there's enough interest, we can bring the old debate forum back into the fore.


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## Ingwë (Sep 30, 2005)

I see that you've already created the thread! 
I would like to participate in debates. It will be funny. 
I suppose that there are many 'newer' users who are interested in debating. Some time ago Thor told me that it's pity that we don't have guilds. As far as I know the debates where the 'top' of the guilds. So the debates can be resurrected


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## Thorondor_ (Sep 30, 2005)

I am in. For as many debates as possible


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## Gothmog (Sep 30, 2005)

I don't know yet if I will join in debating. But perhaps before getting started some might like to give This thread a thought.


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## Thorondor_ (Sep 30, 2005)

Gothmog said:


> I don't know yet if I will join in debating. But perhaps before getting started some might like to give This thread a thought.


I think Walter has a point. Though I am a "bit" competitive, I think that the "last man standing" idea is not much in tune with Tolkien's values. But we could try different formats though...


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## Gothmog (Sep 30, 2005)

Yes he does have a very good point. Sometimes it can be very hard to debate on something when you are arguing the side you disagree with.


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## Ingwë (Sep 30, 2005)

Well, after we decide that the TTF debating Society have to be bringed back to life a new thread must be started - about the format of the debates. First We must decide whether we will have debates or we will not.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 30, 2005)

Gothmog said:


> Yes he does have a very good point. Sometimes it can be very hard to debate on something when you are arguing the side you disagree with.



That's why I emphasized that the guild-based teams would not play any part. We could easily have a debate wherein a question is posed and then the potential debators pick the side they will be arguing for, though permanent debating teams could also be formed, if it is established that members wanted that. What I had in mind is something like to Snaga's Prototype Debate.


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## Arvedui (Sep 30, 2005)

It would surely be great fun to have another go at a debate (or plural...), but I must be honest about my ability to participate:
At the moment it seems that I will be rather busy until the end of november, but this will hopefully take some time to organize?????

So count me in, for the time being...



> Sometimes it can be very hard to debate on something when you are arguing the side you disagree with.


Yes, I do seem to recall one such debate were Maedhros wiped the floor with us.....


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## baragund (Sep 30, 2005)

I voted a resounding, unequivocal and unambiguous *MAYBE*  . The Debate Tournament, along with a couple of RPGs, were by far the most fulfilling and enjoyable times I've spent on TTF. HOWEVER, it's a significant time investment (if you do it properly) and I don't know if I can pull that off again.


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## Turgon (Sep 30, 2005)

Though I tend to agree with Walter's opinions on debates, I have participated in a couple, never really enjoyed them when I was arguing something I disagreed with, really loved them when I was arguing for something I really believed in...  

However as a reader of TTF, rather than a poster, I would quite like to see something come up. Sadly the last debate I remember on TTF (between Nom and myself) came to nothing, as again, I could only find a couple of points in my favour, (Mainly waffle about Telchar... which the debate led me to study where perhaps I wouldn't of otherwise... hehe... I now have many interesting ideas about Telchar!) whereas Nom had the whole Tolkien mythos on her side... and being a close friend of Nom's she threw the debate in my favour before it ever started. Then again, I am a terrible debator. Though, Arvedui, I think I was guildmaster of Ost-in-Edhil when we won the Tourney? I can kind of see a faint outline of the debate trophy resting proudly on the top of my computer... though it could just be my imagination...  It was surely no work of mine.

Debates can be great though. I remember Maedhros asking me to come up with a question for one of the rounds, and me coming up with one I named, _In That Vast Shadow Once of Yore_, which dealt with Fingolfin's intention as he set out to battle Morgoth. (Named quite dramatically, as always, from a line in The Lays of Beleriand) Both Maedhros and Nom told me on MSN that they both believed Fingolfin rode out to meet Melkor in a deliberate act of self-destruction, but by the end of the debate they had begun to believe that Fingolfin in his rage, believed he had a chance, however slim, of slaying the dark one. Which is something to be said for such competition.

So as a TTF browser, I think debate could prove quite interesting. After all, there are quite a lot of new bloods on TTF who have just as much passion and insight regarding Tolkien as we old timers, in fact a few have posted in this thread already. So I will watch this space with great interest.


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 30, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone, and especially you, Turgon. Like you said, the way how a debate can shift or alter one's point of view about a certain topic or aspect, is something which I (and most people, I reckon) love most about these things. 

Baragund, it is true debates require that a certain amount of time and energy be invested into them, but I imagine any upcoming debates to be less of a 'weekly must' as they were in the tournament and more of a leisurely activity occuring more or less sporadically, which means debates could last substantially more than the one week, and thus participants would be in less of a hurry and under less pressure to wrap up. I think most of us can scrounge enough time to participate in a debate once in a while, so it really shouldn't be that big of a problem.


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## YayGollum (Sep 30, 2005)

Here we go. Debates were fun. But then, I remember something about me showing up for a few towards the beginning, not really doing very well, then ignoring them ever afterwards. Hm. Craziness. oh well. Am still happy to help. 

What are you people waiting for? Merely sitting about, waiting for even more chances to sit about? Waiting for more to come here and write ---> "Oo! I happen to be at least halfway interested in debating, although, this is all that I have to write about it! I shall wait for others to come up with ideas and move things into place! I surely sound like an entity that you would wish to have on your team!"  Ick. Well, I didn't even notice how long this thread has been here. Whoops. Great, YayGollum person. Show your lack of research powers. You would make a great debate team member. I totally would, myself. Cease your distractions! Yes, ma'am. 

What was I writing about? Let me see here. I am a fan of the ideas that I have seen in the links that have been provided. I wonder why I wasn't around to read them the first time that they came out, but oh well. No need for boring guildses! No need for halfway hearted arguing coming from stressed out authors! Shall I create a few threadses with interesting questions, or am I waiting for a new section to be clicked into being?


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## Ithrynluin (Sep 30, 2005)

Good to see you, Yay, and I'm glad you've shown interest in debating again. I always liked reading your debate posts in the tournament.

Okay, I've resurrected the TTF Debating Society forum and put it under the "Halls of Tolkienology" section, because I think this is the most fitting place out of the existing ones. So now any debating related discussions, questions, and the like can be put directly there.

I think once enough people show interest coming up with debate topics shouldn't be too difficult: many unused propositions are to be found in the debating halls.


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## Ingwë (Oct 1, 2005)

*Tolkien debates and beyond*

I just want to say _*'Ooooohhweeeee'*_

Well, _TTF Debating Society_ has been brought back to life. I think we can start debating about the format of the debates. Which threads will we use? The old ones such as Debate Format: A better way? or will we start new threads? 
I think we must start _new_ threads because the old ones and the old rules are based on the guilds that we don't have now. 

About me and the debates... I am too busy with the school but it seems that I will do my best to find time to visit TTF 

Btw, Ithy, we cannot post at _TTF Debating Society._ It is still like archived section though it is not in the archives


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## Ithrynluin (Oct 1, 2005)

> Btw, Ithy, we cannot post at TTF Debating Society. It is still like archived section though it is not in the archives



Thanks for pointing that out, Ingwe. I fixed that, so the forum can be posted in now.


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## Ingwë (Oct 1, 2005)

Thank you very much, Ithy. 
So the forum has been posted in now  
I have just created a thread Suggestions for debate format after conversation with Gothmog. Waiting for suggestions


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## e.Blackstar (Oct 1, 2005)

*slowly raises hand* I picked Maybe...like baragund said, it would be a lot of time that I may or may not have, and I haven't got all the sources and reference materials that some of the sage elderlies have, but I'd be willing. It sounds like fun.


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## Wraithguard (Oct 1, 2005)

I'm not _that_ old and I have enough reference material to hold my own in a debate if not force the line. Perhaps with the reintroduction of Debates the past members of the forum may return. Then again perhaps we could actually get new members that are active and regular for once!


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