# Sam's Loyalty



## Gandalf_White (May 18, 2002)

Was anyone else as moved as I was about Sam's loyalty to Frodo?


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## Wood Elf (May 18, 2002)

Yes, 
Sam is just so devoted to Frodo. I think a very touching part is when they are going through Mordor, and Sam tells Frodo to eat and drink, and Frodo eats and drinks Sam's share as well as his own, but Sam doesn't tell him. Wow. I can barely think of anyone these days who would do that for someone else. People seem so self centered at times. Maybe I need some new friends! But yes, it is very touching.


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## The Necromancer (May 18, 2002)

Yeah, Sam was real dedicated. Did anyone else think he knew way more then he said? I like when Sam carries Frodo to Mount Doom. But do you think that if Gollum hadn't been there, Sam would have tried to get Frodo to throw the One Ring and save the world, or stood next to Frodo in his hour of doom?


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## Xanaphia (May 18, 2002)

I was totaly moved by Sam's loyalty to Frodo! It was so sweet!!! At the end of the movie when Sam repeats his promise about not leaving Frodo it's sooooooooooo sweet it almost made me cry!! All through out the book I was touched by Sam's loyalty, that is why he became one of my favorite charactors from the day I started reading the book. *sigh* that wonderfull day such a long time ago...


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## Xanaphia (May 18, 2002)

YES!! It was soooooo incredibly sweet and loyal!! I was very moved as I said in the poll on whether you think Sam being loyal was cool or not. Sam is one of my favorite charactors mainly because of how loyal he is all the time.


> "I made a promise, Mister Frodo, a promise, "Don;t you leave him Samwise Gamgee." and I don't mean to, I don't mean to!"



*SIGH* sooooo sweet, soooo, touching, soooo moving, sooooo loyal.


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## Rangerdave (May 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by The Necromancer _
> *But do you think that if Gollum hadn't been there, Sam would have tried to get Frodo to throw the One Ring and save the world, or stood next to Frodo in his hour of doom? *



First off, let me say that this is only my opinion and therefore really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. I believe that Sam would have tried in everyway possible to persuede Frodo to destroy the Ring of his own free will. I also feel that Frodo was fully under the control of the Ring and would have refused. Given this situation; I believe that in his love for Frodo and for Middle Earth, Sam would have thrown Frodo into the fires to save his master and friend from damnation. Sam would have then followed Frodo into the fire and his own death. 

The struggle would have been a difficult one for Sam, but in the final analysis, it would be his only real choice.

Of all of Tolkien's creations, Sam seems to be the only character whose innate sense of loyality, love and honor would allow him to destroy the Ring by choice.

Or then again, I may be wrong
RD


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## The Necromancer (May 19, 2002)

RD, thanks for the answer, thats pretty much what I thought. I guess then it's pretty good ole' Sammy didn't get Gollum back in Shelobs Lair. Think, if they would have killed Gollum, Sam and Frodo would never live to see The Shire, or know that Gandalf was living. And I believe there would be more bloodshed and less prettiness if Frodo and Sam died at Mount Doom. 
Thhanks again RD


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## Xanaphia (May 21, 2002)

Very good idea, but that would be a HORRIBLE ending!! Poor Sam and poor Frodo. It make's you think about it though, if Sam had killed Gollum in Shelob's lair then Sam and Frodo might have died and perhaps many others still, and maybe it could lead to the disaster of Middle Earth and...


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## Gamil Zirak (May 21, 2002)

The only downfall with Sam's loyalty is that he left Frodo after he was attacked by Shelob. Of course, he thought Frodo was dead, but he still left him behind.


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## legoman (May 21, 2002)

The thing was he had the choice stay with frodo, get captured and thus give the ring to sauron or go off and complete what frodo started, he choose well and it was probably the bravest thing he did in the book, cos at that point he became completely alone in the middle of Mordor, which wouldn't be too pleasent. And he got him back in the end.


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## Rangerdave (May 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Gamil Zirak _
> *The only downfall with Sam's loyalty is that he left Frodo after he was attacked by Shelob. Of course, he thought Frodo was dead, but he still left him behind. *



The march from Shelob's tunnels to Mt Doom to destroy the Ring is hard enough. But not as hard as dragging a dead Hobbit up the mountain with you.

What would you have done?

RD


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## Lantarion (May 21, 2002)

Sam is by far the most loyal and pure-hearted member of the Fellowship, with Gandalf right behind. He may not have all his beans in the can (if yot u take my meaning ), but he understood the weight of the matter at hand and sacrificed all feelings of peace, security and comfort to aid his greatest friend (I find the term "Master" a bit demeaning, he wasn't that stupid!).
Go Sam!


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## Gamil Zirak (May 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rangerdave _
> *The march from Shelob's tunnels to Mt Doom to destroy the Ring is hard enough. But not as hard as dragging a dead Hobbit up the mountain with you.
> 
> What would you have done?*


I'm not saying that he didn't make the right choice, but I would have at least checked his pulse before I left him there.


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## Tyaronumen (May 23, 2002)

Dammit Jim, he's a gardener, not a doctor!


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## Elu Thingol (May 23, 2002)

> Posted by Rangerdave: Of all of Tolkien's creations, Sam seems to be the only character whose innate sense of loyality, love and honor would allow him to destroy the Ring by choice.



I have to disagree I don't think Sam could have destroyed the ring. I mean he could barely pick it up when he took it from Frodo after he thought Frodo was dead. 

Side Note: Sam is also more loyal to the quest of destroying the ring than he is to Frodo or he would have stayed by Frodo's side instead of trying to complete the quest.


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## Gandalf_White (May 24, 2002)

Hey Sam thought Frodo was dead. So he had to complete the quest or he and everybody else would be dead too. I think Sam was smart to think about going to destroy the Ring himself. GO SAM!


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## ILLOTRTM (May 24, 2002)

> I was totaly moved by Sam's loyalty to Frodo! It was so sweet!!! At the end of the movie when Sam repeats his promise about not leaving Frodo it's sooooooooooo sweet it almost made me cry!! All through out the book I was touched by Sam's loyalty, that is why he became one of my favorite charactors from the day I started reading the book. *sigh* that wonderfull day such a long time ago


My thoughts exactly...... except..... I _did_ cry.... over... and over... and over..... It's so sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bilbo Baggins57 (May 25, 2002)

I'm w/ ya there, ILLOTRIM. Sam's one of my favorite characters. I actually did cry at the part in the movie where Frodo's trying 2 get away by boat but Sam sees him just in time & insists on going to Mordor w/ him. I thought his loyalty to Frodo throughout the books was just so sweet!


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## Rangerdave (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Mithrandir2003 _
> *
> 
> I have to disagree I don't think Sam could have destroyed the ring. I mean he could barely pick it up when he took it from Frodo after he thought Frodo was dead. *



Wow! thats exactly why I thought he could. Sam has seen with his own eyes what damage the ring is capable of doing. He, more that anyone else excepting Gandalf, is terrorfied by the ring. That fear is what would have led Sam's actions. Sam did not trust his own wisdom or intelligence, so he would follow the direction he recieved from Gandalf, Elrond and Frodo. The people Sam believed in had said to destroy it, and so he would. If for no other reason, Sam would destroy the ring to protect the North (not to mention the Shire) from becoming the waste land that Mordor had become.

RD


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## Theoden (May 26, 2002)

To me, of all the characters, Sam is the real hero. I mean, had I been in his shoes, I might have left Frodo naked in the tower after having rescued him and then getting yelled at. But Sam stuck to his master, and he was brave and kind a loyal. I don't think Frodo could have done it without Sam. He, of all those that had a part in the war of the rings, was more concerned with the everyday common-man (or hobbit, or elf, or dwarf), than with the vast problem that was before him. In short, I love Sam, and I am glad that JRRT had him go to be with Frodo and the elves in the end.


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## Theoden (May 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rangerdave _
> *
> 
> Wow! thats exactly why I thought he could. Sam has seen with his own eyes what damage the ring is capable of doing. He, more that anyone else excepting Gandalf, is terrorfied by the ring. That fear is what would have led Sam's actions. Sam did not trust his own wisdom or intelligence, so he would follow the direction he recieved from Gandalf, Elrond and Frodo. The people Sam believed in had said to destroy it, and so he would. If for no other reason, Sam would destroy the ring to protect the North (not to mention the Shire) from becoming the waste land that Mordor had become.
> ...



Right on!


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## Elu Thingol (May 28, 2002)

Sam probably could have resisted the ring longer because he is so humble but in the end it would have taken him too. "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely"


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## shadowfax_g (Jun 1, 2002)

Speaking of loyalty to Frodo, I totally agree with that Sam is awesome. But still I am not fond of Sam very much. He devoted himself to Frodo so blindly that he lost a fair mind. I cannot approve his unfairness against Gollum. He demanded Gollum to serve but was not thankful and wanted to get rid of him at Faramir's camp.
Frodo was fair, so was Gandalf, but Sam wasn't.


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## Anarchist (Jun 2, 2002)

It is pleasant to see people sharing my opinion, that Sam is the hero. He was the most pure and humble character, together with Aragorn I must say. What makes Sam more humble than Aragorn in my opinion is that he never wanted any kingdoms for him and stuff (of course Aragorn was mant to be a king). His dream was to have his own hobbit hole and his little garden. Of course later on he became mayor, but I guess he did it for the good of the Shire. I particularly loved Sam when he attacked Shelob and won. Imagine a small hobbit winning a battle against a creature that even teams of orcs couldn't. Remember a conversation of orcs, when they told that Shelob was eating a lot of them.

What I was particularly annoyed of, was that Sam kept calling Frodo "master" and "mister Frodo". Man that annoyes me very much. I mean he was Frodo's friend, not his servant. I hate this master and servant thing. What do you think?


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## Elu Thingol (Jun 3, 2002)

Sam is so loyal to Frodo that Frodo probably is his master.


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## ILLOTRTM (Jun 4, 2002)

.......?


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## Gamil Zirak (Jun 4, 2002)

Frodo is Sam's master. Sam was working in the Frodo's garden when he overhead Frodo's conversation with Gandalf about leaving the Shire.


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## Theoden (Jun 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anarchist _
> *What I was particularly annoyed of, was that Sam kept calling Frodo "master" and "mister Frodo". Man that annoyes me very much. I mean he was Frodo's friend, not his servant. I hate this master and servant thing. What do you think? *



You have to remember that Sam is a lot younger than FRodo and that Frodo was Sams boss and Gandalf commanded Sam to go with him. It is funny because when I watched the movie for the first time, I thought it was interestingthat PJ portrayed Sam and Frodo as being "buds" and I always understood from the books that Sam was Frodo's sevant. Not slave; servant.

-me


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## Rangerdave (Jun 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Mithrandir2003 _
> *Sam probably could have resisted the ring longer because he is so humble but in the end it would have taken him too. "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" *



Or as Admiral Poindexter of the CIA once said

Power Corrupts, but Absolute Power can be alot of fun."

RD


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## Goldberry344 (Jun 6, 2002)

> I'm not saying that he didn't make the right choice, but I would have at least checked his pulse before I left him there.



er...



> Then as quickly as he could he cut away the binding cords and laid his head upon Frodo's breast and to his mouth, but no stir of life could he find, nor feel the faintest flutter of the heart. Oftern he chafted his master's hands and feet, and touched his brow, but all were cold.



Sam wouldnt just leave frodo. he checked. sam was one of the best characters in the book, if you ask me


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## uzuki (Jun 8, 2002)

*No*

your signiture is all wrong its not sons of a silly person its your mother was a hamster and your father smelt like elderberrys


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## Goldberry344 (Jun 8, 2002)

oh, but it is. see, there is a series of taunts from the french directed towards king arthur. if you truly want me to tell you all of them, i will do so, but not in this thread, for this is not the appropriate Monty Python thread.


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## Lily from Bree (Jun 15, 2002)

Oh.........Sam is so loyal!! Yes, I love the part after Shelob. Sam was really going hysterical. Listen to this.

"Then anger surged over him and he ran about his master's body in a rage, stabbing the air, and smiting the stones, and shouting challenges."

And also there was this part.

"I love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow. But I love him, whether or no."


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## Lantarion (Jun 15, 2002)

*sniff*  

"Now stand aside, worthy adversary!"
"'Tis but a scratch!"
"A scratch?! Your arm's off!"
"No it isn't."
"Well what's that then?"
*pause*
"I've had worse."
"You liar!"
"C'mon, you pansy!"

  ROTFL
I just watched it yesterday.. A shining jewel of comedy..


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## Flame of Anor (Jun 19, 2002)

I voted for awesome. It would take a true and honorable friend to follow someone thru the trials and tribulations that Sam and Frodo went thru. IMO I think that it would be incredible if we all had a friend like Sam.

-Flame


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## Lily from Bree (Jun 19, 2002)

I totally agree with you, Flame of Anor. I voted for awesome, too. Sam is so cool. I'd like to have a friend like that.


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## Bilbo Baggins57 (Jun 19, 2002)

I agree w/ u on that last one, Flame of Anor. We should all be so lucky 2 have friends like Sam. And to whoever said that Sam didn't give gollum a fair chance, would u have given him one? I sure wouldn't have. Sam & Faramir both caught on quick; they knew that his true intentions were. Besides, Frodo gave gollum a chance & look what happened 2 him because of it.


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## Sam_Gamgee (Jun 19, 2002)

Sam is the man. his loyalty to frodo is true friendship i wish i had a friend like sam.


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## Rangerdave (Jun 25, 2002)

This may be the wrong place to put this, but here is an excerpt of a paper I submited to a mythology class some years back that might help describe the loyality and character strength of Samwise Gamgee



> The most understandable and yet most overlooked hero of the Lord of the Rings is Samwise Gamgee. Sam starts his journey as somewhat of a clown. Most readers and critics are either unable or unwilling to recognize the transformation of Sam into a hero in his own right. For the majority of the story, Sam’s closest literary counterpart is Sir Bedwyr of the Arthurian legends. As Bedwyr follows Arthur, so Sam follows his master through peril not out of official obligation but rather through his love and devotion for Frodo. Sam’s courage first arises when he, for a short time, becomes the Ringbearer in Mordor. However, Sam’s true heroism shines in the return to the Shire. Here Sam ceases to be Frodo’s underling and rises to become his equal. Like Aragorn, Sam becomes the leader of his people: unlike Aragorn, Sam is a leader of a new age. The reunited kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor are founded in the remembrance of lost Númenor. The Shire is, in contrast, fully a land of men (or Hobbits as the case may be). Under the guidance and leadership of Samwise Gamgee, the Shire remembers the past world of Elves and magic, but is not dependent on it. If Aragorn is symbolic of a heroic past and Frodo is symbolic of the nobility of Everyman, then surly Sam is the promise of a bright and virtuous future. Although this conclusion is not directly expressed in the text, Sam is the last hero of the Lord of the Rings.



Enjoy
RD


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## Selkieschild64 (Jun 29, 2002)

OT: Can we still post on this thread?

Kelly

_edited to say..oh. I guess we can. What was that X thingie?_


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