# Elijah Wood says Amazon series shouldn’t be called ‘The Lord Of The Rings’



## Erestor Arcamen (Feb 16, 2021)

I mean, he's not wrong...









Elijah Wood says Amazon series shouldn't be called 'The Lord Of The Rings'


Lord Of The Rings star Elijah Wood has weighed in on the upcoming Amazon Prime Video series, suggesting it should have a different title.




www.nme.com


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## 1stvermont (Feb 16, 2021)

Erestor Arcamen said:


> I mean, he's not wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



agreed but I highly doubt the final title will be LOTR. In the meantime they will try and connect it as much as they can for advertisement but I am sure the final will be something else.


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## Shadow (Feb 16, 2021)

He's right - a different name that honours the spirit of the brand would be better for a point of difference.


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## grendel (Feb 22, 2021)

Sigh... okay, here's my problem with these Hollywood types generally. Elijah Wood did a nice job with Frodo, but he's an actor. He stands on an X and reads lines that someone else wrote. Please stop thinking that it make you arbiter of what's right or wrong for the whole LotR franchise. In other words, get over yourself.


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## 1stvermont (Feb 22, 2021)

grendel said:


> Sigh... okay, here's my problem with these Hollywood types generally. Elijah Wood did a nice job with Frodo, but he's an actor. He stands on an X and reads lines that someone else wrote. Please stop thinking that it make you arbiter of what's right or wrong for the whole LotR franchise. In other words, get over yourself.



yes he is just an actor, but how can you disagree with what he said. Dont not listen just because he is an actor. We are just random guys on a forum, why listen to each other?


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## Olorgando (Feb 23, 2021)

Many people may have missed who the actual Lord of The Rings is, despite the fact that JRRT made in utterly clear in Book Two, chapter I in "Fellowship", when Gandalf rebukes Pippin (as he does innumerable times).

Pippin: 'Hurray!" cried Pippin, springing up. 'Here comes our noble cousin! Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!'
'Hush!' said Gandalf from the shadows at the back pf the porch. 'Evil things do not come into this valley, but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower of Mordor, whose power is again stretching out over the world. ...'

Everything Sauron did from about 1,200 *Second Age* onward makes it clear that he is Lord of the Rings (even to a degree over the Three Great Elven Rings, though this is a concept that also raises the hackles on my neck). So depending on what time frame the Amazon series chooses, "Lord of the Rings" "rings" truer than during the Third Age, at no time of which he was in possession of his One Ring ...


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## pranghus (Feb 25, 2021)

To me this is a case of the headline being intentionally sensational. If you didn't know that the objection was related to when the show will be set, you might read that headline and think Elijah Wood was saying something more akin to, "This won't be *real* Lord of the Rings! Peter Jackson already made the definitive version and anything else is just a cash grab." Which was not what he was saying.


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## Oromedur (Mar 14, 2021)

LOTR as part of the name for this is absolutely fine if Sauron is a central character which I assume he will be.


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## Gothmog (May 20, 2021)

Olorgando said:


> Everything Sauron did from about 1,200 *Second Age* onward makes it clear that he is Lord of the Rings (even to a degree over the Three Great Elven Rings, though this is a concept that also raises the hackles on my neck).


Why is this concept a problem for you?


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## The Golden Flower (May 20, 2021)

Not really on topic, but how many characters in the show do you think will be made up? Since the characters exclusively from the Silmarillion can't be used, I'm guessing a decent chunk of people will be completely made up. I know Galadriel is going to be present, but the second age has more characters from the Silmarillion then the LotR. To me, the fact the show is having to make up characters is a harbinger of failure.


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## Olorgando (May 20, 2021)

Gothmog said:


> Why is this concept a problem for you?


None of the Ainur had any part in the themes in the Music of the Ainur concerning the Eruhini.
So these remain at least in part a mystery to all of the Ainur, the later Valar and Maiar.
While the Noldor may have learned much from Aulë (a few directly, probably most indirectly), for example Fëanor's creation of the three Silmarils was something beyond what Aulë had to that point envisioned, is my take. Sauron was "only" a Maia of Aulë, so at a level seriously below Aulë. Celebrimbor was the son of Curufin, fifth son of Fëanor who echoed both his father's birth-name Curufinwë and his father in temperament and abilities So Celebrimbor as the consummate Elven smith of the Second Age echoes both his father and grandfather. Including their ability to go beyond their teacher is creating something beyond what the teacher had envisioned.

The three Great Elven Rings are stated by JRRT as having been created without any participation of Sauron. They also seem to have qualities not found in the Nine, the Seven, and the One. So how would Sauron know what qualities his One needed to exert any control of any kind over the three?.

I guess it's the old story about the "needs of the story". There has been much written about how wrong or right PJ was in altering themes from the book to adjust to what he saw as needs of the story in a film. Well, the same goes for JRRT in his writings. JRRT very sensibly stays away from any "quasi-scientific" explanations of the supernatural in his legendarium, as does any sensible fantasy writer (otherwise, I guess, it would be science-fiction). Things just are. That suspension of disbelief.

But as JRRT also once wrote (I paraphrase) that the yeast of inspiration does not leaven all of the lump, so "mere" invention has to come to the rescue. Well, sometimes the invention grates, for me. I've at least occasionally mentioned one of my favorite hobbies, "Valar-bashing". This mainly concerns early versions of the legendarium, BoLT volumes 1 and 2, but is not limited to them. The Valar and Maiar of that stage sure look much too Asgardian or Olympian - meaning too human with all of our defects.

One point is that laying down of the government of Arda by the Valar when Ar-Pharazôn's fleet attacked Valinor. Was this necessary? _{Several expletives deleted}_ no! Not the only time I've thought "Eru is an idiot!" Or, in being the parent of the Eruhini, in massive dereliction of his parental duties (though here I am without personal experience, others can very likely judge that much better). But JRRT wanted that Atlantis bit in his legendarium. Needs of the story.


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## Gothmog (May 20, 2021)

You give a number of points in this answer that I do agree with concerning the actions of the Valar and of Eru. Though in some respects Eru is also bound by his choice to give physical existence to the Music of the Ainur as they made it.

As for the abilities of Aule, Sauron and the Elves they taught or decieved, Aule taught the Noldor openly and without guile or deceit. There was nothing in his teaching to be wary of and it would be inline with a good teacher to have a student, or many students, improve upon his teachings. Sauron on the other hand was extremely deceitful and would hide in his teachings many things that would not be seen as evil. It is not beyond expectations for Sauron to have buried within the knowledge of how to make the Rings of Power a means of accessing any ring made with the same knowledge as Celebrimbor did. It would be, in terms of computers of our world a "back door" that would not require knowing about the powers and abilities of the rings but would access at "Root user" level.


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## Olorgando (May 21, 2021)

Gothmog said:


> It is not beyond expectations for Sauron to have buried within the knowledge of how to make the Rings of Power a means of accessing any ring made with the same knowledge as Celebrimbor did. It would be, in terms of computers of our world a "back door" that would not require knowing about the powers and abilities of the rings but would access at "Root user" level.


I had thought about something like that, too. Some "must-have" that turns a run-of-the-mill ring into a Ring of Power, but has that kind of a side effect.
But them, there must have been some reason that Celebrimbor made the three Great Elven Rings expressly *without* any participation by Sauron, some suspicion or foreboding. And that he had, on his own, found something to counteract the effects of the "must-have".
Come to think of it, that might be the reason that Sauron had to pour so much of his native power into his One Ring. Had Celebrimbor simply made slightly "upgraded" versions of the Seven and the Nine, Sauron might not have had to go so overboard in his making of the One ...

OK, now who do we ask for a "professional opinion" on this? The ranks are thinning ...😟


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## Hisoka Morrow (May 21, 2021)

Olorgando said:


> I had thought about something like that, too. Some "must-have" that turns a run-of-the-mill ring into a Ring of Power, but has that kind of a side effect.
> But them, there must have been some reason that Celebrimbor made the three Great Elven Rings expressly *without* any participation by Sauron, some suspicion or foreboding. And that he had, on his own, found something to counteract the effects of the "must-have".
> Come to think of it, that might be the reason that Sauron had to pour so much of his native power into his One Ring. Had Celebrimbor simply made slightly "upgraded" versions of the Seven and the Nine, Sauron might not have had to go so overboard in his making of the One ...
> 
> OK, now who do we ask for a "professional opinion" on this? The ranks are thinning ...😟


Maybe we can take some other similar cases into account, such as Feanor making the silmarillion, can we?


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 21, 2021)

There are some other threads on the subject, Mr. O -- but I'll leave it to you to look for them.


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## Gothmog (May 21, 2021)

Olorgando said:


> I had thought about something like that, too. Some "must-have" that turns a run-of-the-mill ring into a Ring of Power, but has that kind of a side effect.
> But them, there must have been some reason that Celebrimbor made the three Great Elven Rings expressly *without* any participation by Sauron, some suspicion or foreboding. And that he had, on his own, found something to counteract the effects of the "must-have".
> Come to think of it, that might be the reason that Sauron had to pour so much of his native power into his One Ring. Had Celebrimbor simply made slightly "upgraded" versions of the Seven and the Nine, Sauron might not have had to go so overboard in his making of the One ...
> 
> OK, now who do we ask for a "professional opinion" on this? The ranks are thinning ...😟


I believe that you are correct in saying that Celebrimbor had a foreboding of some kind and also your implication that the direct involvement of Sauron in the making of the lesser rings increased his potential power over them. However, it is clear that whatever the method Sauron used to create his "Back door" it must have included the means of the rings base power. When the One Ring was destroyed the Elven Rings all lost their power. Was it, in fact, from Sauron himself that this power came? This might be the reason that Celebrimbor could not completely remove Sauron's ability to gain control of the wearers of the Great Rings that he made alone.


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## Olorgando (May 21, 2021)

Squint-eyed Southerner said:


> There are some other threads on the subject, Mr. O -- but I'll leave it to you to look for them.


Erm, I think we have collected quite a bit the rebuts Elijah Wood's opinion - *IF* the Amazon series deals with any period after 1200 Second Age.


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## Squint-eyed Southerner (May 21, 2021)

I meant threads on the Ring.


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## Halasían (May 29, 2022)

> Elijah Wood says Amazon series shouldn’t be called ‘The Lord Of The Rings’​



He should be happy that it is called *The Rings of Power* then. 😅


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