# Why didn't the Rangers go South?



## Lhunithiliel (Jun 3, 2003)

Let's trace the events:

>> Arnor - destroyed
>> the population of ex-Numenoreans - scattered all around the North having lost homes and kingdom
>>Gondor - still holding positions there in the South and yet in desperate need of help in order to survive

Then WHY, I have been often wondering lately, didn't the Rangers from the North just go South and join their kin and fortify Gondor?
WHY did they prefer to stay in the North and what is even more surprising - they decided to *guard* the Shire!!!! 
 
WHY would they decide so?????
What did they know about the Shire and why did they decide that it was so important that they'd rather stay in the shadows of the dangerous woods and fight the evil creatures of the Enemy and sacrifice their lives...??????

What had made them take such a decision????


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## Arvedui (Jun 3, 2003)

The Rangers had one major advantage in staying in the shadows:

That Sauron did not know that an heir of Elendil and Isildur was still alive and kicking.

Other advantages:
- They kept close connection with Elrond, and gained much knowledge and protection from him.
- They were able to keep the line of Elendil pure, almost untroubled from the Dark Forces. At least after the destruction of Angmar.
- They were also close to the Gray Havens and Círdan.

And do not forget that they were human, and probably had not forgotten that my alter ego claimed the crown of Gondor in 1944 (TA), a claim that Gondor did not even bother to answer.

I have previously tried to give explanations to why the Rangers guarded the Shire, in one of my far-fetched theories that can be found in this thread,  and in this debate. 

I admit that the theory is probably a bit far-fetched, but I still stand by it:

The Dúnedain guarded the Shire because the Hobbits were a crucial part of the plans of Eru.


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## Eledhwen (Jun 3, 2003)

At least one Ranger was available at need...



> _LoTR Appendix A - The Stewards _"Ecthelion II, son of Turgon, was a man of wisdom. With what power was left to him he began to strengthen his realm against the assault of Mordor. He encouraged all men of worth from near or far to enter his service, and to those who proved trustworthy he gave rank and reward. *In much that he did he had the aid and advice of a great captain whom he loved above all*. Thorongil men called him in Gondor, the Eagle of the Star, for he was swift and keen-eyed, and wore a silver star upon his cloak; but no one knew his true name nor in what land he was born. He came to Ecthelion from Rohan, where he had served the King Thengel, but he was not one of the Rohirrim. He was a great leader of men, by land or by sea, but he departed into the shadows whence he came, before the days of Ecthelion were ended."


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## Beleg (Jun 3, 2003)

Ecellent thread. 


Now on with the Questions,



> Then WHY, I have been often wondering lately, didn't the Rangers from the North just go South and join their kin and fortify Gondor?



Because the first responsibility of the rangers is to their kin living in Eriador. 
And don't forget that there are still many horrors lurking in Eriador. Barrow Wights for example and possibly some other spirits too lurking in the Northern Marches and Deadmen's dike.




> "Strider" I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly



This shows that their are still many evils lurking in the marches and plains of Eriador and it's only by Rangers careful guardship that they are kept at bay or else there were be no Bree and possibly no Shire either.
So Rangers had to choose between two options..

Either go down south to open war, 
or guard their families and other people from the evils of Eriador.
There were people allready fighting in Gondor and Rohan, but If they left Eriador then there would be no one to guard Bree, Shire and the dwellings of Rangers. 





> What did they know about the Shire and why did they decide that it was so important that they'd rather stay in the shadows of the dangerous woods and fight the evil creatures of the Enemy and sacrifice their lives...??????



Remember Aragon's words,



> Merry seized his hand and kissed it. ‘I am frightfully sorry,’ he said. ‘Go at once! Ever since that night at Bree we have been a nuisance to you. But it is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place.’
> ‘I know that well, or I would not deal with you in the same way ‘ said Aragorn. ‘May the Shire live for ever unwithered!’ And kissing Merry he went out, and Gandalf went with him



This shows that Aragon in particular and rangers in general were aware of the enviornment of Shire. They knew Shire people were innocent hobbits and knew not what fears the wide world had in store for them. And being of the lines of Kings of old they felt it was their duty to keep these people safe from the outer troubles. 
Shire people had always been loyal to the Kings and even had sent Archers (for the case of fighting) to the last battle at Nobury. 
So Rangers felt that the least they could do was to protect them for their servitude and loyalty. 

But that's only a notion.


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## Celebthôl (Jun 3, 2003)

Id say that was about right 

That were protecting the last place of pure happieness in Middle Earth, also the lore in Rivendell was better that all other places, so i guess thats another reason...


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## Eriol (Jun 3, 2003)

I don't think the Rangers guarded the Shire in any special way before Gandalf asked them to. Much less that they did it because they felt hobbits had a high destiny. This weird notion was apparently only picked up by Gandalf (who, although being reprimanded in some debates , is _the wisest of the Maiar_ -- Valaquenta). Some pretty smark cookies (Saruman, Elrond) overlooked them.

I don't think it was obvious.

The third millenium of T.A. in Eriador was a very peaceful time, as I see it. Not only Arnor was destroyed, remember, but Angmar also. The occasional ruffian; some trolls here and there; and that was it. The Orcs mostly stayed on the mountains, and other dangers were "localized" -- the Old Forest, the Barrow Downs. No need to guard people from them if they won't go there!

(As I see it!)

Anyway. The motivation behind the Rangers was, in my opinion, the desire to protect what they thought of as "their people". Remember Aragorn's words in the Council of Elrond. They were the royal house, even if their people did not recognize it. It would be unfaithful to leave and strengthen Gondor, abandoning their own people, which included Bree as well as the Shire, and probably some smaller settlements which do not show on any map.


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## gate7ole (Jun 3, 2003)

Trying to explain the behaviour of the Rangers is a bit tricky. And I don’t speak only of their decision to stay North and avoid the wars of Gondor. I speak generally of the denial of their royal line, and the acceptance of their role as Rangers. Why didn’t they try to reconstitute their kingdom? To unite all the people of the Northern Kingdom? Sure, the shadow of Angmar was heavy upon them, but thousands of years had passed since then. And just considering this, someone with bad intentions, might accuse them of cowardice – against their history and their duty.
It is intriguing to explain the behaviour of the Rangers as guided by Eru, whose plan was to bring the salvation of the world through the least important race – the Hobbits. In general I don’t prefer such “theological” explanations of events. I think that more a rational approach is better. So, did the Rangers behave as real descendants of Isildur?
Clearly, they protected their lands with the best intentions and results. Shire was kept for many years protected. But what about the other places, like Cardolan and Rhudaur? They seem deserted. Isn’t it the fault of the Rangers? In general, the mannish populations of the Northern Kingdom seem much neglected by their kings. And what about the wars of Gondor? Could just a few exceptions (Aragorn-Thorongil) change the rule that the Rangers did not aid their kin?
As a whole, I judge the behaviour of the Rangers during the second half of the TA, as at least disappointing. They had become a group of homeless people, without any specific target (except a vague war against the evil creatures), in memory of the past ages and in hope of the future. In which future, they did not seem to have much hope. I do not accuse them of being unworthy. They were probably brave men, fighting hard the enemy, but still they were not kings. They could not be and did not pursue it. Maybe the time had not come, but how could they know if they tried. They might be waiting for the right one (Aragorn) to bring back the glory. I just don’t like this simple explanation. It seems to me that the failure of Isildur was still haunting them.


> by Arvedui
> The Rangers had one major advantage in staying in the shadows:
> That Sauron did not know that an heir of Elendil and Isildur was still alive and kicking.
> 
> ...


The connection with the sources of elvish wisdom would not be lost. Joining the forces of Gondor, it wouldn’t mean that they would stay there forever.
And their keeping in shadows to be unknown to Sauron is not an excuse either. When would they strike Sauron? When it was too late? Or who did they expect to fight Sauron and weaken him, while they stayed back in Shire? Only Aragorn realized his duty that anonymity was no longer a benefit. Was he “told” that by someone, I don’t know. 

Concluding, I think that although the behaviour of the Rangers was eventually justified by history (and one can argue that this is enough), they failed to remove the failure of Isildur from their line, until the coming of Aragorn Elessar.


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## Arvedui (Jun 4, 2003)

> But what about the other places, like Cardolan and Rhudaur?


The Rangers were descendants of the Arthedain, not Cardolan or Rhudaur. In Arthedain, the line of Isildur was kept through the rightful heirs to the throne of Arnor. Cardolan and Rhudaur came into existanse as a result of dissension among the sons of King Eärendur. So if the Rangers had diminished in number and force, it is no wonder why they concentrated their effort to their "own" kingdom.
When the Witch-king captured Fornost, most of the remaining Dúnedain were driven over the Lune. Where they settled after that, is not stated anywhere. So it might well be that they stayed in that area (Ered Luin), which would make a lot of sense really. If you are a diminishing people, the constant target of Sauron, why not settle as far as possible from his land, and also close to Círdan. As a result of that, protecting the Shire would actually be protecting your own people; a sort of forward defence.



> And their keeping in shadows to be unknown to Sauron is not an excuse either. When would they strike Sauron?


I think one would have to look at it the other way around. It was not done to be able to strike at Sauron, but to hide from him and his servants, so that the heir to Elendil could be kept safe until the time was right.


> In general I don’t prefer such “theological” explanations of events.


I can't understand why so few agree with my thesis?  


> It seems to me that the failure of Isildur was still haunting them.


I agree. This is probably the best explanaition to why they acted as they did.


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## Eriol (Jun 4, 2003)

I don't think that the return of Sauron was foreseen or expected by the Rangers at this time. The Istari, yes -- knowing that the Ring was lost but not destroyed they could foresee it. But the Rangers? Are they so stepped in Maiar lore that they could foresee it?

Just a thought that crossed my mind as I was reading your posts.


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## Arvedui (Jun 4, 2003)

Why not?
Arthedain was destroyed in 1974, approx. some 900 years after the arrival of the Istari.


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## Eriol (Jun 4, 2003)

Yes, the Istari were around, by I don't think they divulged their Maiar nature. They went around disguised as old men, remember. No one had a precise idea of what, exactly, they were, and only Círdan knew they came from the West.

The Rangers would simply not have enough lore to foresee the return of Sauron. Prophecy, perhaps; Elrond could have played a role. But by themselves I don't see how they could foresee it.

*slaps himself on the head*

Of course the prophecy of the reforging of the blade addressed that. Duh.


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## Arvedui (Jun 4, 2003)

The Istari were around, and their purpose was to aid Men (and the other free peoples of Middle-earth) to bring about the downfall of Sauron.
I do believe that they would establish some sort of contact with the heirs of Elendil pretty instantly. Don't you?


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## Eriol (Jun 4, 2003)

Yes, but I don't think they would approach Arvedui D) and say explicitly: "Sauron will return!". They would help the Rangers, support them, but this explicit giveaway of information is, well, very "unGandalfian" . 

Their support would be to strengthen their position and to make sure they don't lose their heart over the centuries. No need to state explicitly that Sauron will come back. But this is a non-issue after that dratted prophecy . Of course they already knew that Isildur's bane would be found, and the Dark Lord would come back. 

Which is perhaps the best reason why the Istari would not tell them about Sauron -- they already knew .


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## Beleg (Jun 4, 2003)

> Shire was kept for many years protected. But what about the other places, like Cardolan and Rhudaur? They seem deserted. Isn’t it the fault of the Rangers?



Rangers were a small and diminished people, as the number of the company of Rangers under Hallabard shows us. Do you think they had enough people to "man" those areas of Cardolan and Rhudaur? How can It be the fault of the rangers that they didn't have enough people to man and protect the areas of their forefathers when their current numbers were greatly diminished. 



> So, did the Rangers behave as real descendants of Isildur?



Yes they did, for this was the best they could do. Remain in Eriador and protect those people who were helpless and could do with some protection. 



> Could just a few exceptions (Aragorn-Thorongil) change the rule that the Rangers did not aid their kin?



After Arvedui, the rangers became a diminished people, passing into the shadows. They were very few people and compared to them the might was of Gondor was still very great. And you have to remember that not every ranger was as skillful as Aragon. Their support to the southern Kindgom might have provided some at-the-moment help to Gondor but they weren't enough to completely overthrow the strongholds of their enemies. In the long run it would have proved disastrous for the occupants of Eriador. 
I don't also think that the rangers would be particularly willing to go to Gondor as refugees. They were proud and noble people and must have remembered the denial of the claim of Arvedui by the southern Kingdom. They would have much prefered to live in their own lands, protects its occupants, and bid their time hoping once to regain their lost Kingdom.

Edited by Arvedui: Misspelling of 'my' name. It is not Averdui!


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## Lhunithiliel (Jun 4, 2003)

Hmmm..boys...all that you're saying makes great sense...up till the question about the Shire!
Or could it be that the North ex-Numenoreans started protecting the the lands of the "VIP" = Hobbits after Gandalf had asked them to do so... When was that? I am too bad in providing dates!  
If such a request existed, what reason would have Gandalf given to the Rangers? "See, guys, there is a land over there where Isildur's bane is. Protect these lands with your lives!"... Sense? ..... .None,IMO! But this is only IF it happened more or less this way...
But if it did not, then again I am left wondering why would they risk their lives to guard the peace in the Hobbits' lands instead of doing all they could to reestablish their own kingdom!

Wonders....wonders...


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## Eriol (Jun 4, 2003)

I think _The Shadow of the Past_ deals with that, Lhun. Gandalf confided in Aragorn; Aragorn then used his authority to establish the guard. No ordinary Ranger knew anything except that they were following Aragorn's orders. 

Only Aragorn knew about the Ring.

We have a fairly recent date (The Fell Winter), in which wolves crossed the frozen Brandywine, and Orcs invaded the Shire, in which apparently no Ranger was there to help them. The Bullroarer was enough. The hobbits would be aware of the Rangers if they had shown themselves so recently.

I think this special Ranger guard was set up only after Gandalf told Aragorn about the Ring.


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## gate7ole (Jun 4, 2003)

> *by Beleg_strongbow*
> Rangers were a small and diminished people, as the number of the company of Rangers under Hallabard shows us. Do you think they had enough people to "man" those areas of Cardolan and Rhudaur? How can It be the fault of the rangers that they didn't have enough people to man and protect the areas of their forefathers when their current numbers were greatly diminished.


Yes, they were diminished. But the Rangers were not the only mannish population of Eriador. There _must_ have been others too –though I have never found any information about where they might dwell (Arvedui’s assumption for Ered Luin seems possible).
Imagine that you are a descendant of Isildur. Wouldn’t you try to unite the Men around you and re-establish your kingdom? Or would you stay hidden and protect the helpless, waiting for the “chosen-one” to come? I find the second approach pathetic. To refuse your real duty (which is NOT to just protect the helpless, but to provide a safe kingdom for them), because of some prophecy that the time has not come yet.



> *by Arvedui*
> I think one would have to look at it the other way around. It was not done to be able to strike at Sauron, but to hide from him and his servants, so that the heir to Elendil could be kept safe until the time was right.


But even if we look at it in this way, then it still seems irrational. What was the right time? Without the destruction of the Ring, Aragorn and his Rangers would be unable to defeat Sauron. Someone not knowing of the Ring, would see this as a folly, to attack Sauron in his full power.
What I say is that still, no hope could be seen in arms against Sauron. I don’t know if those people pondered so much the prophecies over logic, but I would find more appropriate if the descendants of Isildur had been organised and prepared many yeas ago and had by the time established a strong kingdom in Eriador, which allied with Gondor might be able to strike Sauron with better chances. They might still be defeated, but at least they would have tried with their own strength and not depend on a hobbit (and fate).
I see this as the failure of men to deal with their problems, although the brave battles at Pelennor Fields and Helm’s Deep provided some high moments for Men.


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## Arvedui (Jun 5, 2003)

First of all, to Lhun's question about when the Rangers started protecting the Shire. I have consulted the Tale of Years, but little is said there about the Northern Kingdom after 1975 TA, and the guarding of the Shire is not mentioned until _c._ 3000, when the spies of Saruman reports "that the Shire is being closely guarded by the Rangers."



> I would find more appropriate if the descendants of Isildur had been organised and prepared many yeas ago and had by the time established a strong kingdom in Eriador, which allied with Gondor might be able to strike Sauron with better chances.


Yes, but why didn't they? Let us look at the history:
The kingdom of Arthedain ended not because Arvedui died. The explanation in Appendix A, 'Eriador, Arnor, and the Heirs of Isildur,' states that


> ...the North-kingdom ended, for the Dúnedain were now few and all the peoples of Eriador diminished.


There was no Kingdom for Aranarth to rule, even if Angmar was overthrown. There simply was not enough people to make a kingdom. Probably there was so few left, that they were not even able to re-establish it over a period of 1045 years. Look at the company of Ranger that came to Rohan: some 30 men! And that was enough to severe the guarding of the Shire enough that the servants of Saruman could enter freely and cause all sorts of havoc there.


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## Beleg (Jun 5, 2003)

> But the Rangers were not the only mannish population of Eriador.


We are told about "the evil hill men" of the Etten Moors. In the Northern Areas lived the Snow Men of Forochel. Dunlandings might be scattered around in small hoards in Enedwaith. Dwarves operated in Ered Luin and Elves (Mainly High Elves) still lived at the heavens. Hobbits lived in Bree and Shire. Men lived at Bree-Archet and other closeby villages. There was the refuge of Imladris in the east of Eriador. 
We are not told whether any hill men were left after the defeat of the WitchKing. Dwarves suddenly won't want to come under the rule of any alien race. Lindon never was an area under the rule of Arnon. Dunlandings had more dealings with the Dunedain in south then the North. So In essence only the people of Bree and Shire were the communities that Dunedain were liable to rule. Cardolan was destroyed, the forsaken inn was no more there, Norbury was in ruins, we are not told whether anyone lived in Anuminas. Lond Daer and Tharbad were broken and diminished. 
So in essence only two communities were there who could come under the rule of Arnor. 
Of these two Shire was prospurous, immersed in themselves, content, giving little head to the doings of the outerworld. Besides they were granted the Land of the Shire on the condition that they would maintain the Brandywine bridge, remember the King and allow his troops to pass through Shire upon need. I don't think the situation would have changed If the Chieftain's would have proclaimed their ancient Hieracy and built a capital at either Anuminas and Norbury (this is if they had enough numbers to populate the area, which I imagine they didn't have). While Bree was just a small village, kind of like a seperate state with its own rules and regulations. You can say a free city state. 
I don't for a moment think with their diminished numbers and lack of people to rule upon they would have constituted an empire of Arnor. Infact such a move would have caught Sauron's attention and he would have pried more in the matters of North and would have sent more spies there--perhaps even becoming aware of the existance of shire-which would have proved ruinous in the afterevents that were to take place. 

1. T


> (which is NOT to just protect the helpless, but to provide a safe kingdom for them),



What do you think they were doing? By protecting the helpless and making their holdings secure for them, they were infact providing a safe place for the people to live in.


> Wouldn’t you try to unite the Men around you and re-establish your kingdom?



What men?


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## Lhunithiliel (Jun 5, 2003)

I agree with gate7ole  (Why am I not surprised?  )

But in fact, all of you are repeating one an the same thing : the Northern ex-Numenoreans (as I prefer to call them) were diminished and too very few as to reestablish their former kingdom.
All right! 
But this does NOT explain their pationate and faithful devotion to guarding the Shire.
Now, Arvedui says that they started guarding the Shire after Gandalf warned Aragorn that the Ring is in the Shire.

What????? To know that the thing that can change the destiny of the world is within reach and you just watch it and guard it?!?!  
This must be for some major plan! .... Which leads me to a thought: Say, and what if Manwe and Eru had had a "private chat" with good old Olorin and explained to him the whole "plan" and then sent him to ME in order to fulfill this plan?


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## Arvedui (Jun 5, 2003)

> To know that the thing that can change the destiny of the world is within reach and you just watch it and guard it?!?!


Exactly.
Until you know what to do with it, then I would say that was the best thing to do.
What would your idea be, then? That the Chieftain of the Dúnedain should take the Ring for himself, and use it to be able to accomplish the overthrow of Sauron? Some might think that would have been a good idea. Some, like Boromir and Denethor...

And as some have stated by now: the Shire was a part of their former Kingdom, so why not take care of it? If you are too few to accomplish great deeds, then at least stay honourable, and accomplish the little things that you can do!
Remember Aragorn when the army of the West came to the desolation before the gates of the Pass of Cirith Gorgor, and some of the host vere unmanned and unable to go forth:


> 'Go!' said Aragorn. 'But keep what honour you may, and do not run! And there is a task which you may attempt and so be not wholly shamed. Take your way south-west till you come to Cair Andros, and if that is still held by enemies, as I think, then re-take it, if you can; and hold it to the last in defence of Gondor and Rohan!'
> Then some being shamed by his mercy overcame their fear and went on, and others took new hope, hearing of a manful deed within their measure that they could turn to, and they departed.


Who should now the worth of such actions better than one who had lived his whole life doing exactly that?


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## gate7ole (Jun 5, 2003)

Beleg, I don’t disagree with your excellent analysis over the mannish populations of Eriador. But why don’t you think for once that this situation was in a way a result of the negligence of the Rangers to establish a new realm? It would be hard at the beginning, that’s certain. But at the end of the TA, their kingdom might be prosperous.
But what did they expect? Even with the arrival of the “chosen-one”, the situation at the North wouldn’t be different. And in fact, Aragorn _did_ eventually leave his land for Minas Tirith. Despite what we say that they wanted to protect their lands and not leave, they did.

Lhun, you persistently try to add this mystic aspect of guarding the Shire . I think that Eriol answered this part. It was Gandalf’s orders to Aragorn.


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## Eriol (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lhunithiliel _
> *This must be for some major plan! .... Which leads me to a thought: Say, and what if Manwe and Eru had had a "private chat" with good old Olorin and explained to him the whole "plan" and then sent him to ME in order to fulfill this plan?  *



No plan, Lhun... Frodo could have refused the burden outright. He could have thrown the Ring away as soon as he heard about it (I know, it is hard to throw it away, but he had never worn the Ring as far as we know, and he was dismayed by the news). He could have given it to Tom Bombadil. He could have given it to Aragorn. The Witch-King could have killed Aragorn before he ever met the hobbits. 

etc. etc. .... All of it completely beyond Gandalf's control.

The "big plan" was unknown to all but Eru. It depended on all sort of personal choices completely beyond the reach of any other power, including Manwë -- and certainly Olórin. If Gandalf knew it all, why make so many blunders? A favorite topic in debates is "Was Gandalf right in...". For the _wisest of the Maiar_ to make so many mistakes, KNOWING the plan, is unthinkable. 

Fact is, he knew nothing. He was "playing it by ear". And this ignorance of Olórin was, after all, part of the plan...


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## Lantarion (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gate7ole_
> Lhun, you persistently try to add this mystic aspect of guarding the Shire. I think that Eriol answered this part. It was Gandalf’s orders to Aragorn.


Perhaps: but this has been discussed before, because it is quite an ambiguous topic:
here


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## Beleg (Jun 5, 2003)

> But why don’t you think for once that this situation was in a way a result of the negligence of the Rangers to establish a new realm? It would be hard at the beginning, that’s certain. But at the end of the TA, their kingdom might be prosperous.





> _AppendixA_
> After Arvedui the Northern Kingdom ended, for the Dunedain were now few and all the people of Eriador diminished.



This Quote to me shows that _Even if they wanted_ The Dunedain didn't have enuf resources to continue their rule.
And besides even if the Dunedain would have openly proclaimed their heirship, all they would have to do would have been to protect their masses, which were few in numbers and in whose protection they seemed to be successful without publically going out as a Kingdom. 


Okay, I am begining to agree with you at some points.  But I still fail to see how Dunedain were at fault for issuing the line of Chieftains?


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## gate7ole (Jun 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow _
> *This Quote to me shows that Even if they wanted The Dunedain didn't have enuf resources to continue their rule.
> And besides even if the Dunedain would have openly proclaimed their heirship, all they would have to do would have been to protect their masses, which were few in numbers and in whose protection they seemed to be successful without publically going out as a Kingdom. *


Well, look at the advantages of establishing a kingdom and not just protecting the masses in secrecy.
People would start to feel safer, that there is some protection. They would organize better their cities, not fearing of invasions all the time. The bad groups would think twice before attacking inhabitands of the kingdom etc.
In general, it would be much easier to prosper under the shelter of a kingdom.



> Okay, I am begining to agree with you at some points.  But I still fail to see how Dunedain were at fault for issuing the line of Chieftains?


 Well, as always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.


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## Lhunithiliel (Jun 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eriol _
> *No plan, Lhun... Frodo could have refused the burden outright. He could have thrown the Ring away as soon as he heard about it (I know, it is hard to throw it away, but he had never worn the Ring as far as we know, and he was dismayed by the news). He could have given it to Tom Bombadil. He could have given it to Aragorn. The Witch-King could have killed Aragorn before he ever met the hobbits.
> 
> etc. etc. .... All of it completely beyond Gandalf's control.
> ...


So...you confused me here! Once you say there was not any plan and then...that all was a part of a plan...
Now, I know that the idea about a plan discussed "behind closed doors" that I joked about is just an idea but I like throwing in ideas to be discussed  
I personnly can hardly see the presence of any plan and if therewas one, it perhaps concerned more the presence of the wizards in ME in order to counter and check the the growing strength of Sauron over ME.
Whether there was a specific plan about the Ring and it being kept in the Shire, therefore the Shire to be guarded by the Rangers.... I doubt it...though... who knows?!

To me it does seem strange that the people from the once proud Arnor decided to vanish into the shades and dedicate all their exceptional skills and knowledge to killing evil creatures in the woods and guarding a little piece of land .... I just see no good reason in this...and as I believe that Tolkien created every bit in his mythological world for some good reason.... I am trying to find out what this reason would be in the case of the Rangers and their people.  
That's why I constantly bring forward the issue about the hard-to-understand decision of the Rangers. I somehow feel there is sth. behind this!


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## Eriol (Jun 9, 2003)

If you had colored the first sentence of the next-to-last paragraph -- "The 'big plan' was unknown to all but Eru" -- it would make sense.



It was not a "decision" by the Rangers, it was thrust upon them. They were diminished, their kingdom was deserted. They would probably prefer to keep on being kings, but they no longer had a kingdom.


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## Eledhwen (Jun 9, 2003)

Perhaps the Rangers just liked Longbottom Leaf! Gandalf was already well fond of it by the White Council of 2581. It was at this time that he began to suspect that Saruman's motives for forestalling the attack on Dol Guldur were not as pure as they should have been; and though Gandalf dismissed his suspicions, he may have suggested the watch on the Shire:



> "Gandalf ... looking keenly at Saruman he drew on his pipe and sent out a great ring of smoke with many smaller rings that followed it. Then he put up his hand, as if to grasp them, and they vanished. With that he got up and left Saruman without another word; but Saruman stood for some time silent, and his face was dark with doubt and displeasure... doubting whether he read rightly the purport of Gandalf's gesture with the rings of smoke (above all whether it showed any connexion between the Halflings and the great matter of the Rings of Power, unlikely though that might seem); and doubting that one so great could concern himself with such a people as the Halflings for their own sake merely."



The following account was struck through:



> It was a strange chance, that being angered by his insolence Gandalf chose this way of showing to Saruman his suspicion that the desire to possess them had begun to enter into his policies and his study of the lore of the Rings; and of warning him that they would elude him. For it cannot be doubted that Gandalf had as yet no thought that the Halflings (and still less their smoking) had any connection with the Rings. If he had any such thought, then certainly he would not have done then what he did. Yet later when the Halflings did indeed become involved in this greatest matter, Saruman could believe only that Gandalf had known _or foreknown_ this, and had concealed the knowledge from him and from the Council for just such a purpose as Saruman would conceive: to gain possession and to forestall him.


Just as it was Gandalf's foresight that persuaded the Dwarves to take a Hobbit on their adventure; so this foresight was already in place ninety years earlier at the White Council. 

Also, it could be that the Rangers (or maybe Aragorn and his Ancestors) simply particularly loved the region and wanted it preserved unsullied. The simple Bree-folk and the Hobbits of the Shire had something special - an uncomplicated lifestyle that would be lost if the dark shadow spread unchecked. Also, the exiled king had no guarantee of a welcome in Gondor; his arrival may well have sparked a civil war if the Steward was unwilling. A man like Boromir in his pride, for instance. Even when the time was ripe, Aragorn was careful not to overstep the mark until his welcome was clear.


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