# How about Galadriel's and Celeborn's love?



## Sirona (Jan 10, 2002)

I know,that they've met in the house of Melian and Thingol,and they fell in love and then they have married...etc.... But i want to know more,somebody knows something?Do you think,that elven love last for ever? They never leave each other?They never fall in love with an other woman or man?


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## Dengen-Goroth (Jan 10, 2002)

Well, I can't provide much in the knowledge of the Elven love, but Celeborn was not quite as intelligent an elf as Galadriel, and if you read in FoTR, when they arrive in Lorein his remarks to Gimli inspired some wrath. Also read of Celeborn and Galadriel in Unfinished tales.


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## thoughtful20 (Jan 11, 2002)

Elves are as close as we can get to perfection in human form. An elf, Tolkien argued, was similar to what humans would have been if we had never sinned - therefore, no conflict in their inner being, though there are a lot of references to inner conflict with the slow downward drag of Middle Earth.

As far as we know Elven love went to one other only, and lasted forever. There is no mention of any elf leaving their spouse, or leaving one love to find another. The depths of their love can be seen in their love for the land (Hurin speaks of not even wanting to see Elvenhome in the West because of his love for mallorn trees in Lorien), and in their spouses - Galadriel and Celeborn were married for several thousand years, after all.

The only break in relationships came from one elf partner leaving Middle Earth to travel over the sea, leaving the other behind - as happened to Elrond's wife (who was tortured after capture by orcs). So, as far as we know, it was love forever!


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## Sirona (Jan 11, 2002)

*Thoughful20:*

I love your opinion.Yes,elves are more perfec than human in every way... It's very nice.The elven love has to be something that never ends,something more than just - love(in a way we know it),thank you.


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## Uminya (Jan 11, 2002)

Elves are certainly not perfect. They may seem that way, but there are many who are not only imperfect, even evil to a degree. Consider Eol, or Maeglin. They were cunning and deceitful, and Maeglin betrayed Gondolin to its utter destruction. Feanor and many of the Noldor were proud and greedy, and did not heed the advice of others. Remember the Kinslaying of Alqualonde. Thingol caused the hatred between the Elves and Dwarves when he refused them payment out of his own selfishness. Elves are more like humans than you think.


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## Sirona (Jan 11, 2002)

Maybe...I didn't think about that. But then,how "deeply" perfect they could be? When they are perfect?And when they are not?
Or they aren't perfect at all? ...


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## Branwen (Jan 11, 2002)

..well,humans differ from each other,so probably elves differ,too.I mean the 'good' elves maybe are able to reach the perfection,and the 'bad' ones-not.And the main difference between elves and humans(to my mind):humans may reach for perfection,but they never BECOME perfect;elves are able to do both things.And so their love CAN be perfect,while humans'.......Sounds kind of sad....


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## JanitorofAngmar (Jan 11, 2002)

*.*

I don't think just cause the elves are so "perfect" that their love would be any deeper than that of a man or hobbit (or any creature for that matter).

Love is love no matter what species (provided they are capable of it).

The idea that elves have a better or more satisfying love is ridiculous IMHO.

Sex might be another matter though.  

The emotional part would be the same for elves as men.

JoA


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## Moonbeams (Jan 11, 2002)

Actauly, I belive the only elf that had a second wife was Finwe. He was with Miriel, and had Feanor with her, and later he was with Indis, with her he had the rest of his sons. But other than Finwe, everybody seem to be married for life.


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## Sirona (Jan 11, 2002)

But i think, that the elven love is deeper 'cause they feel more than people, and they know more, and they live longer, and they are born to love(they are so sweet ,beautifull etc...).People don't have so much time,but they want to change partners,so humans l can't reach the deph of love ,that could reach an elve.


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## Branwen (Jan 12, 2002)

That's exactly!Elves are so wonderful and so special.Comparing with elves,humans are ...kind of primitive(nothing personal...)So,elven love just GOTTA be deeper.And besides-don't forget the magics...


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## Thorondor (Jan 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by thoughtful20 _
> *As far as we know Elven love went to one other only, and lasted forever. There is no mention of any elf leaving their spouse, or leaving one love to find another.*



Didn't Feanor and his wife become estranged? Also what about Eol and Turgon's sister(forgot her name)?


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## menchu (Jan 12, 2002)

*Re: .*



> _Originally posted by JanitorofAngmar _
> *The idea that elves have a better or more satisfying love is ridiculous IMHO.*



Well, none of us is an elf, so I suppose we can't say nothing in this respect.  

I just think that if they have lived so long and experienced so many things, their wisdom, in some cases, leads to other qualities such as patience and understanding. However, those examples mentioned above: Feanor, Eöl... show, as Ciryaher said, that elven conditions can evolve to make evil feelings emerge inside them.
I think Eru make both species so that they can "grow". But their "choices" might be different...

BTW, there was another thread where was asked what makes elves so "human". Guess these posts should be there too... And one about "choices and its limits in life" as well! Actually, there are many threads related...


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## pippin le qer (Jan 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Branwen _
> *That's exactly!Elves are so wonderful and so special.Comparing with elves,humans are ...kind of primitive(nothing personal...)So,elven love just GOTTA be deeper.And besides-don't forget the magics... *



isn't this the product of an intelligent man, badly shaken by WOI?
in most myth and folklore elves are much more primordial than men, most times capable to do only one thing, but in extremes more or less like a specialized primitive and not very adaptable.
Speaking of deeper love, I'm wondering what same-sexed love looks like among Elves. I don't think Tolkien ever thought abouth that, but Shakespeare did. the quarrel Titania and Oberon had about a boy for instance.


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## Branwen (Jan 13, 2002)

in myth/folklore/anywhere else-maybe.But we're talking about the elves from MIDDLE-EARTH!!!Elves created by Tolkien-intelligent,powerful,wonderful,magic,amazing elves...


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## pippin le qer (Jan 13, 2002)

What's wrong about being intelligent, powerful, wonderful, magical and amazing eternal gay? I always had my doubts about Finrod Felagund.


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## Branwen (Jan 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by pippin le qer _
> *What's wrong about being intelligent, powerful, wonderful, magical and amazing eternal gay? I always had my doubts about Finrod Felagund. *


Nothing.But TOLKIEN did not mean that.
And Finrod-if you had any doubts FORGET them


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## Uminya (Jan 14, 2002)

I seriously doubt that any elves had homosexual relationships. On that subject, I will keep my opinions to myself, seeing as it got me into big trouble on this very forum several years ago...


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## pippin le qer (Jan 14, 2002)

my dear Branwen, now you're scattering a long cherished dream.!!!

okay just kidding. 

I'm sober enough to realize that Tolkien never touched that subject, and the unmarried status of Finrod is somewhere stated as the result of a deep love for an elven maiden who didn't want to leave Valinor.
Same sex love it by the way a very rare topic in mythology and folktales, in Irish of Norse is absolutely absent. either because the monkish scribes or because the tales of heroes have their roots in fertility rites and the symbolism of seasonal growth. when we should believe Robert Graves even the Greek myths with same sex love are suspect .
so expecting some Tolkinian Elves to be gay is a little bit like expecting fish to fly.


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## Branwen (Jan 16, 2002)

so what is this all about?...


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## Sirona (Jan 16, 2002)

I want to go and meet them, and to fall in love with Glorfindel(that would be interesting, don't you think?)Let's go to Middle-earth, who's with me?Hey,There are any gay-elve,don't even think about it. Yes, Finrod was in love with a elven girl in Valinor, you could find it in the Silmarillion.


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